2026-09-24 - City Council Work Session

01:05All right, thank you.

01:07Welcome everyone. Welcome to Durham City

01:09Hall.

01:10I hope everyone is well and staying

01:13healthy

01:14and

01:15and not getting sick and having to

01:17recover like I have been last couple of

01:19days.

01:20The weather change has been interesting,

01:22but I am so glad that fall is here.

01:25So glad. Summer was brutal.

01:28Um but welcome. Meeting is called to

01:31order.

01:32And

01:34see if I can

01:36Pardon me one moment.

01:42Can I see that real quick? Yes, your

01:44order.

01:45All right. Madam Clerk, please call the

01:46roll.

01:48>> Good afternoon, Mayor and Council.

01:51Mayor Williams.

01:53>> I'm here.

01:54>> Mayor Pro Tem Caballero.

01:56>> Here.

01:58>> Council member Baker.

02:00>> Here.

02:01>> Council member Burris?

02:05Council member Cook?

02:06>> He has an excused absence.

02:07>> Thank you.

02:08Present. Council member Copac?

02:12>> I'm here.

02:13>> And council member Wrist?

02:15>> Council member Wrist let us know he's

02:16running late.

02:20>> Thank you.

02:21All right.

02:27All right, you tell council, are there

02:28any announcements?

02:30I'll start on my left.

02:34>> Good afternoon, council. Good good

02:36afternoon, everybody. Thank you all for

02:38for joining us today. Um colleagues, uh

02:40just wanted to raise two issues. Um I'm

02:44not introducing anything today.

02:46Uh but I will be coming to speak with

02:49you about two different items. One is um

02:54uh an an encampment policy uh that I've

02:57been working on um with a group of of

02:59people uh that I'd like to talk to you

03:01about. And the second item is about

03:05vacant properties and vacancies in

03:07Durham.

03:08And putting in a request to staff to do

03:11a study of vacant properties in our

03:13city. Again, I'm not introducing

03:14anything today. Um just wanted to put

03:18that on your radar screen so that you

03:19know that I'm I'll be coming to you

03:20soon. Thank you.

03:22>> I look forward to that coming to my

03:23desk. Thank you.

03:25Mr. Copac?

03:26>> Yeah, thank you, Mr. Mayor. Hello,

03:27council, staff, residents. Thanks

03:30everyone for being here.

03:31Um just what's on my mind, I got off a

03:33plane about an hour ago from New York

03:35City for climate week. And it was a

03:37great experience to hear from

03:41um you know, folks around the country

03:43and around the world.

03:45Um you know, uh

03:47you know, entrepreneurs with

03:49cutting-edge technology.

03:51Um

03:52representatives from the government of

03:54Nepal uh who are um facing some of the

03:57greatest impacts we've seen

03:59uh from from climate change with the you

04:02know, catastrophe that happened with the

04:04the the floods not too long ago.

04:06Uh major companies shifting toward

04:08regenerative agriculture,

04:10communities pushing back against data

04:12centers um near their homes. So, it was

04:15just um a whirlwind of a couple days and

04:18um excited now to be back in Durham. So,

04:21good to be with you. Look forward to a

04:22good meeting.

04:25>> Thank you, Mr. Skopak.

04:27Um

04:28Skook.

04:31>> Thank you. Good afternoon, everyone. Um

04:32I will be brief. I just wanted to say

04:34that yesterday several of us had the

04:36opportunity to go to the Museum of

04:37Durham History to celebrate the uh

04:40securing of a 30-year lease. And um that

04:43securing happened because actually the

04:45city was the one who leased that

04:47property out. Um really happy that the

04:49museum will have at least a

04:51semi-permanent home moving forward. If

04:54you haven't been, um that museum is

04:56located on our downtown loop right in

04:59the entrance way to downtown on the west

05:01side. Um and it is an amazing museum. I

05:04said yesterday, which people thought was

05:06funny, that it is a very small museum,

05:07but it really packs a punch. There's so

05:09much good information. There's

05:11constantly great exhibits that uh stay

05:13there, and then we also have ones that

05:16are rotating through. I talked about

05:17this one, but the LGBT history in Durham

05:21um is the current exhibition. Um just a

05:23little while left for that exhibit. So,

05:25I'd encourage everybody to go see it

05:27while it's up. Um and then the other

05:29thing is that I too am welcoming this

05:31weather. I think most of us are really

05:33excited to see the rain. I do want to

05:35say a reminder, which is that we are

05:37still in phase two of our drought

05:39restrictions. I know we haven't really

05:41talked about it a lot, but um

05:44it's really important because our water

05:45sources have not replenished, and we

05:47will need quite a lot of rain this fall

05:49for um Lake Michie to to raise up to the

05:52level that we need it to be at. So, just

05:55a reminder uh to continue with all of

05:58the water saving

06:00methods that y'all are using at home.

06:01Folks have been doing a really, really

06:03great job. Um and unfortunately, we will

06:05have to continue. We're really seeing

06:07global warming take its toll, as Council

06:10Member Kopec is saying, all over this

06:12country. And I think this is one of the

06:14ways that we're seeing it very up close

06:16in Durham. So, appreciate everyone's

06:19cooperation there and actions

06:21saving water thus far. And

06:24hopefully, we can get enough rain this

06:25fall that we will be out of our drought

06:27restrictions. I look forward to a good

06:29meeting. Thanks, everyone.

06:31>> Thank you, Mr. President.

06:34>> Thank you. Good afternoon, everyone.

06:36Good to be with you all. Just a couple

06:37of reminders. Um

06:39First is before we our next meeting,

06:42we'll have already started our week

06:43without driving. That starts on October

06:451st. So, I just want to flag for folks

06:46because the next time this body meets is

06:48October 5th.

06:50So, um

06:52October 1st is is our week without

06:54driving. I know many of us have taken

06:55the challenge historically and and plan

06:57to do so this year. And so, if you are

06:59able to get on a bus, roll, walk,

07:02ride a bike, whatever you're able to do.

07:04Even if you can't do the whole week,

07:06sometimes I can't do the whole week cuz

07:08I can be a baby about the weather. Um

07:11Please just do what you can in that

07:13week. It's a great reminder. And with

07:15that, I want to thank Director Egan, our

07:18transportation director, who was part of

07:20a panel. We have I know the mayor's

07:21going to talk about this probably, but

07:22we have a pretty large delegation from

07:24the city of

07:25Baltimore and that surrounding area.

07:27And there was a transit and

07:29transportation panel this morning. And I

07:31just want to shout out to transportation

07:33staff cuz they always do such a good job

07:35sharing Durham's vision around transit

07:37with folks visiting and also with

07:39residents. That's all. Thank you so

07:41much.

07:43>> Thank you all so much. It's great to be

07:45with you all.

07:46Um spent the week

07:49after

07:50some panels on small business and and

07:53just local economies across the country.

07:55Spent some time in DC talking about

07:58that. Also, um

08:00represented Durham with mayors of

08:02Philadelphia, Austin, Texas,

08:05and Kansas City

08:06as a keynote panelist at the Goldman

08:10School of Public Policy at UC Berkeley.

08:13Uh folks are really interested in what

08:14we're doing here in Durham.

08:16Uh you probably have seen many of the

08:17accolades come across social media.

08:20Uh folks are paying attention and they

08:21want to know how is Durham doing this?

08:24And um I I really accredit, you know,

08:27folks that are just risk-takers and

08:28opportunity makers in the city of Durham

08:31who love to be here, take pride in being

08:33here, and want to contribute to making

08:34this place um a better place. So, I'm

08:37really grateful for that.

08:39Uh cuz it makes all of us better.

08:41Came home to um

08:44uh the delegation from Baltimore

08:46Chesapeake Connect. Uh Mayor Brandon

08:48Scott and I, uh which many of you know

08:50are he and I are pretty close.

08:51Uh spent time with uh their delegation

08:54talking about all things Durham and and

08:56the similarities between Durham and

08:57Baltimore. I was in Baltimore about 2

09:00and 1/2 weeks ago, and that's when I

09:02learned that their city has taken a

09:03major push

09:05to try and do two things. One, they want

09:07to snatch the Essence Festival from New

09:09Orleans, and two, they want to replicate

09:12the HEART program from Durham, North

09:14Carolina.

09:15And so, uh they're interested in how

09:17that works. And so, we talked about

09:19that, and we talked about HEART and our

09:21Community Safety Department.

09:23Uh culturally, there are similarities

09:25between our law enforcement agencies.

09:28And so, we're doing a lot of uh shared

09:29policy ideas and and learning uh

09:32co-learning.

09:33And so, they brought about probably

09:34about 100 to 115 people from the

09:37Baltimore Chesapeake area

09:39uh to uh to Durham this week, and

09:41they're probably loading the plane

09:43boarding the plane now uh to go back to

09:45Baltimore, but it was a great trip. Uh

09:47kudos to all of our community partners,

09:49NCCU, and others who hosted

09:52and um and and kept uh just helped to

09:55make their experience great.

09:57And I'm looking forward to a great

09:58meeting today.

10:00Yep, go ahead.

10:02>> Apologies, I also want to shout out

10:03because you mentioned our Community

10:04Safety Department. A really great story

10:06on uh NPR around our Community Safety

10:08Department and the work that they're

10:09doing and and lifting up as one of the

10:11top departments in the country doing

10:13this work and leading this work. So, um

10:15want to remind folks of all the

10:16incredible things that the city of

10:18Durham is doing every single day.

10:21>> Thank you so much.

10:23All right. Uh as we are getting into

10:26this work,

10:27uh

10:30Dur- Durham has quite the engaged uh

10:33populace in regards to public policy and

10:35I I just want to continue to uplift the

10:38the the very complex work that we do as

10:40council members and, you know, just try

10:42and protect the integrity of this work.

10:44And um

10:46I I look forward to us tackling tough

10:47things that are coming.

10:49Um but I'm grateful to be in a city that

10:51the nation is watching.

10:53All right. That being said, I will go to

10:56our public comment period and I'll start

10:58virtually. I have ones

11:00>> priority items for

11:01>> Oh, yeah. That's right.

11:03Sorry about that. Mr. Manager.

11:05>> Thank you, Mayor, Mayor Pro Tem, members

11:07of council. The city manager's office

11:08has two priority items for this work

11:10session today. Uh for first, agenda item

11:13number 12 is an application for outdoor

11:16recreation legacy partnership program

11:18grant. We're requesting that you suspend

11:21the rules and vote on this matter during

11:22today's work session so that we can meet

11:24an October 1st application submission

11:26deadline.

11:28Secondly, for agenda item number 16,

11:302026 second quarter crime report. This

11:32item does include a presentation. Uh and

11:34those are our two priority items. I

11:37would also note for agenda item number

11:3916, we have updated some of the material

11:41that was originally published in the

11:43agenda packet and uh that has been

11:45updated as of uh late yesterday

11:46afternoon.

11:49>> Thank you. The first one, 12, right?

11:51>> Yep.

11:52>> All right. I'll uh entertain public

11:53comment

11:54consent agenda and then I'll go to that

11:56item.

11:58All right. Madam Attorney.

12:00>> Good afternoon, Mayor, Mayor Pro Tem,

12:02and members of the city council. The

12:03city attorney's office does not have any

12:05priority items for you today.

12:06>> Thank you very much. Madam Clerk.

12:12Oh, you need this, don't you?

12:21>> City Clerk's office has no priority

12:23items.

12:28We have two announcements for

12:29nominations. One for the thorough board

12:32of adjustment appointment.

12:35Benjamin King

12:38was nominated.

12:43>> Uh Mayor Williams, we're just missing

12:44yours.

12:54We we don't have a general consensus on

12:55the second item for the citizens

12:57advisory committee appointment. Um so we

12:59have for Tyria McCray Borda, um we have

13:04two votes. For Ashley Williams, we have

13:06three votes. And for Miranda

13:08Is this for Ashley Wi- Oh, no.

13:13Apologies. With Mayor Williams' vote, we

13:15have the Ashley Williams has been

13:17nominated to the citizens advisory

13:19committee.

13:21>> Thank you.

13:29All right.

13:30>> [clears throat]

13:34>> I'll at this time I'll go ahead and do

13:35the public comments period and then I'll

13:38go into the consent agenda.

13:42First speaker I have is Karen Boswell.

13:45Uh which is virtual. Can you hear me,

13:47Karen?

13:48Boswell.

13:51Do you see her online? Okay.

13:55>> It's unmute. Okay. Hi.

13:57>> Hi there. Welcome. You have 3 minutes.

13:59>> Hey, okay. Well, let's get right into it

14:01then. Uh good afternoon, Mayor, members

14:04of the city council, and city staff. I

14:07apologize for having to bring my

14:08personal life and private information

14:11before the council like this.

14:13But after everything that has happened,

14:14I truly

14:16do not know what else to do.

14:18I am here today because my father,

14:20Thomas Boswell, he's the man who suffers

14:23from dementia and microvascular ischemic

14:25disease.

14:26He desperately wants to be capable and

14:28strong like he was when he was 50. He

14:30just simply cannot. Because of his

14:32cognitive declines, he needed uh about a

14:35couple months ago, in May, the end of

14:36May, we needed a responding officer to

14:39look past the volatile moment that him

14:41and I were going through

14:43an argument. I, as his daughter, uh

14:47am always having his best interest at

14:49heart. Instead, the responding officer

14:52failed him. She failed our elderly in

14:55the city. On May 28th, when I faced a

14:57violent felony strangulation, responding

14:59officers bypassed objectives safety

15:01protocols.

15:02If you look at exhibit C, it's a CAD

15:04ending in 424.

15:06Officers entered a false personal

15:08assumption claiming medical and domestic

15:10crisis as merely a real estate dispute.

15:13That fabricated directly contradicts

15:16exhibit A, which is a EMS CAD report

15:19from the day before on 5/28.

15:22Uh an unsworn involuntary commitment

15:24that I tried to

15:26access on 5/29.

15:28Uh committed petition under which proved

15:31he was in danger to himself and needed

15:33medical intervention. That police

15:35intervention actually obstructed

15:37statutory safety mandates designed to

15:40protect vulnerable seniors.

15:43I am also my father's legal power of

15:44attorney, medical power of attorney,

15:46specifically catered to his needs with

15:48his progressions health-wise.

15:53It doesn't end there, guys. I'm sorry.

15:55So, we're going to move on to some other

15:56things, so just keep that in your back

15:57pocket. To make matters worst, I

15:59received an

16:01an official administrative memo from the

16:02chief of our police department, our new

16:05chief, Ms. Marges, addressing my safety

16:08reports,

16:09which is initially why I requested your

16:10time a few weeks back. Frankly, to be

16:12addressed mishandling of police reports,

16:15dealing of utterly inappropriate in all

16:17aspects of my life. The response memo is

16:20unprofessional to be presented to a

16:22council, so I apologize.

16:24It dismisses serious criminal matters,

16:27severe human actually trafficking

16:29intelligence

16:31as conspiracy theories conspiracy

16:33theories while attempting to bury

16:34systematic failures by cataloging my

16:37request.

16:39The chief's memo claims my special

16:40victims unit's case was simply inactive

16:42due to lack of evidence, but that

16:45directly contradicts if you look at the

16:46text messages I provided. They're from

16:49uh inves- investigator Supina.

16:51Explicitly confirming my case was active

16:54on his desk and waiting warrants.

16:55Furthermore, the memo ignores the real

16:58the real world arrest in Durham that

17:00violated exactly this trafficking

17:03intelligence that she's speaking of as a

17:05conspiracy.

17:07>> Ms. Boswell,

17:08if if you will please also email your

17:10comments uh so that we can hear all of

17:12them.

17:13So, we can read all of them, but your

17:15time is expired.

17:20All right.

17:22That is the uh in- only virtual speaker

17:24I have. The next is in person, Ms.

17:26Victoria Peterson.

17:35Medical clerk in case in case Ms.

17:36Boswell didn't hear, maybe you can send

17:38her a message to let her know to email.

17:41Thank you. Welcome you have three

17:43minutes. Welcome, council member.

17:44>> you. Thank you. I am very happy very

17:46happy, and I'm here to congratulate our

17:50police force, our interim

17:53police chief, as well as the police

17:56chief. Mr. Mayor, you were not there.

17:59You folks were not there last Friday,

18:02but they did a awesome job at that camp,

18:06at the situation. Drugs being sold

18:10across the street from the Fayetteville

18:12Street School. We came down, and other

18:15folks have been reaching out to the

18:17city manager, but I want to thank the

18:20police chief and her force, men and

18:23women, African-American men, officers,

18:26white white officers, females and women.

18:29They did an awesome job in trying to

18:31clean up that area down there, Mr.

18:34Mayor. They still have a lot of work to

18:37do in this community and I'm asking

18:41I'm asking our city officials, the city

18:44council members, and the mayor,

18:47let this police force do their job. They

18:51know their job. They know how to do

18:53their job. All they need is your support

18:57and your help. That situation down there

19:00on Pilot Street should not have been

19:02going on and going on for weeks after

19:04weeks, weeks after weeks, Mr. Mayor.

19:07When you have women who are woman

19:10walking around nude because she's got so

19:13much drugs in her

19:15and then we have to wait well over an

19:17hour to get the ambulance from another

19:20county, from Orange County, Mr. Mayor. I

19:22don't know if you knew that or not. They

19:24had to come over to help her, to get

19:26help. Because we have property, city

19:30property, where individuals are being

19:33allowed to sell drugs. We've got to put

19:36a stop to this foolishness. It's

19:38ridiculous. So, I'm asking every city

19:42council member and the city manager to

19:45please look into this. Those individuals

19:48that they arrested, did y'all know that?

19:51They arrested people that were in there

19:53with drugs. Did they tell you they had

19:55guns?

19:56Huh?

19:57All this is happening, Mr. Mayor, on

20:01city property. That's not what this city

20:03is about. Yes, we want to help the

20:06homeless,

20:07but we do not want to help them if

20:09they're going to be on our property

20:11selling drugs

20:13and prostitution and guns. That's not

20:16what city property is supposed to be

20:19used for. I can understand if people are

20:21homeless and maybe we do need to help

20:23them in that way.

20:26To give them a place to I'm not even

20:28sure why we even do that, Mr. Mayor, cuz

20:30the city manager has plenty of money of

20:32city money. And he can put THEM UP IN A

20:34HOTEL. LIKE THEY SPENT OVER $2 MILLION

20:37TO help the folks over here on

20:40at the um

20:43I'm sorry, at the main library. Over $2

20:45million. But anyway, you heard what I

20:47had to say. Please do Well, thank you.

20:50Thank you.

20:51Thank you. Uh we've got a good police

20:53force. And thank God for our new city

20:56police. Thank you.

20:57Chief, thank you.

21:07>> All right, at this time

21:10>> [clears throat]

21:10>> Council member did you have any comments

21:12that you

21:13Welcome.

21:13>> Thank you. Glad to be here.

21:18I do bring greetings from the then the

21:20North Carolina municipalities. It's my

21:21first meeting there, so we are well

21:23represented there and it's yeah, a

21:24pleasure to serve. Thank you.

21:26>> Thanks for taking on the hand. I I miss

21:29it already.

21:30>> [laughter]

21:32>> What is this?

21:33I thought it was yours.

21:35It's my speaker.

21:38All right, this time I'll read the

21:40consent agenda.

21:44Item number one, Mayor's Hispanic Latino

21:47Committee appointments. Item number two,

21:49Durham Housing Authority Board of

21:50Commissioners

21:52appointments. Number three,

21:55Am I on the wrong Durham City Council

21:56work session?

21:58>> It needs to be on 924.

22:02>> Yeah, that's what I have.

22:03>> [clears throat]

22:04>> Oh, now I see. All right, cool deal.

22:14Thank you.

22:16Council member Copac for kindly letting

22:17me know that's not the one.

22:20All right, item number one we've heard

22:23which was Ms. Karen Boswell.

22:25Item number two, Citizens Advisory

22:26appointment.

22:29Item number three, Durham Board of

22:31Adjustment appointments. Number four,

22:34renewal contract for state and federal

22:36lobbying services.

22:38Number five. I'm pulling number four,

22:39please.

22:41Okay. Number four has been pulled.

22:44Number five, fiscal year 2025-2026

22:46fourth quarter financial report.

22:48Number six, cooperative group purchase

22:50contract change order to three custom

22:53pumper fire trucks.

22:55Number seven, eminent domain action to

22:57obtain one temporary construction

22:59easement at 17 West Cornwallis Road for

23:01the South what SW45 bike and sidewalk

23:04project.

23:05Number eight, eminent domain action to

23:07obtain one temporary construction

23:09easement at 3414 Hillsborough Road

23:12for the SW52 sidewalk project.

23:15Number nine, amendment two to structural

23:17maintenance improvements for parking

23:19facilities design agreement with

23:21Kimley-Horn and Associates Incorporated.

23:23>> I'm pulling that one.

23:25>> Number nine is pulled.

23:28Number 10, consulting contract for

23:31compensation and classification study.

23:34>> I'm pulling that one as well.

23:35>> Number 10. Number 11, approval of

23:37amendments for to the Citizens Advisory

23:39Committee bylaws.

23:41>> Can I pull that one?

23:42>> Yes.

23:44Number 12,

23:46application for outdoor recreation

23:48legacy partnership program grant,

23:50which will be addressed. I'll pull that.

23:52>> Okay. Yeah, I think maybe we all

23:56>> [clears throat]

23:57>> Uh number 13, utility extension

23:59agreement with Set Up Now Investments

24:00LLC to serve Fern Street lots.

24:03Number 14,

24:04>> that one.

24:05>> Number 13.

24:09Number 14, utility extension agreement

24:11with Family Building Company Two LLC to

24:14serve 2629 Harvard Lane, I mean Harvard

24:16Avenue lots.

24:19Number 15, utility extension agreement

24:21with Rafael Darrel

24:23Lopez Lopez and Alona Perov to serve

24:271900 and 1902 Andrew Avenue.

24:30Number 16, 2026 second quarter crime

24:33report.

24:34Number 17, consent to contract

24:36assignment neighborhood compass data

24:38portal

24:39from neighborhood data works to

24:41University of North Carolina at Chapel

24:43Hill.

24:43>> I'll pull that one.

24:45>> 17

24:47Number 18, Triangle Region Transit

24:49Survey Funding Agreement.

24:51Number 19, interlocal agreement for bus

24:53mobile ticketing software and hardware.

24:56Number 19 has been pulled.

24:58Uh Mr. Kolbeck.

25:00Number 20, purchase contract with Gillig

25:03LLC for eight buses for Go Durham.

25:07It's been pulled by Council Member

25:08Wrist. Mr. Wrist.

25:10Number 21, contract amendment six to the

25:12professional engineering services

25:15contract with Hazen and Sawyer PC for

25:17the East Durham water and sewer

25:18rehabilitation and Belt Street regional

25:21storm water improvements project.

25:23Number 22, construction

25:25>> these.

25:26>> Uh

25:2821 and 22?

25:28>> Thank you.

25:29>> Number 22, construction award to TA

25:31Loving Company for the Elizabeth Street

25:33water replacement project. 21 and 22

25:35have both been pulled

25:37by Mr. Baker.

25:39Item number 23, consolidated annexation

25:41MIS Durham headquarters two. Number 24,

25:44consolidated annexation 3815 Wake Forest

25:46Highway.

25:49Excuse me. [clears throat] Madam um

25:50Mayor pro tem, can you read items that

25:53have been pulled?

25:54>> Yes. Um I have items number four, number

25:58nine, number 10, number 11,

26:01number 12 we need to suspend the rules

26:03and vote on, number 13, number 17,

26:08number 19, number 20, number 21 and 22.

26:11And I have item number 16 as a

26:13presentation.

26:14>> All right. Well, Madam Clerk, I'll let

26:16you know if we need to order dinner.

26:18>> Um [clears throat]

26:19>> Five then.

26:20>> Did five get pulled?

26:21>> It's a presentation, right?

26:22>> Uh no.

26:24>> It's not on the financials, it's not a

26:25presentation.

26:25>> No, do you Do you want to pull it?

26:26>> okay. It's fine.

26:27>> Okay. No, item number five is It's just

26:30an item and it has not been pulled. Is

26:31that correct? Okay.

26:32>> Correct. That's what I talked about it.

26:35All right.

26:36Um

26:37colleagues, instead of it in order, I'm

26:39going to start with item number 12.

26:42All right. Item number 12 is

26:45the application for outdoor recreation

26:46legacy partnership program grant.

26:49>> Do you want to

26:50Do you want to entertain motion first to

26:52suspend the rules?

26:52>> Yeah, and then I'll open for discussion.

26:54So, I'll entertain a motion to to

26:56authorize Actually, I'll entertain a

26:58motion to suspend the rules

27:00to address item 12.

27:02>> So moved. Second.

27:03>> Second. Moved and properly seconded. All

27:05in favor?

27:06>> Aye.

27:07>> Aye. All opposed? All right. Now, I'll

27:09entertain a motion to authorize the

27:10Department of Parks and Recreation to

27:12apply for an outdoor recreation legacy

27:14partnership program grant through the

27:16National Park Service Land and Water

27:18Conservation Fund in the amount of $15

27:21million.

27:22>> So moved.

27:23>> Second.

27:23>> Moved and properly seconded. All right.

27:25Any discussion? All right.

27:26>> Yeah.

27:27>> Council member Cook.

27:28>> Thank you.

27:31Do we have anybody on this issue on the

27:37>> Good afternoon. Denise Chaplin from DPR.

27:40>> Thank you. Um so, I just a couple

27:42questions. So, of course, we're always

27:44in favor of going after more money and

27:46grant money. Not a problem there. Um but

27:49I'm a bit confused about why the budget

27:51estimate was so drastically different,

27:53especially because we put this out to a

27:55bond.

27:57Um and so, I have a couple of specific

27:58questions in that. One, I'm I'm just

28:00going to read the language from the memo

28:02which says the estimate did not include

28:04several costs necessary to deliver the

28:06project, including professional design

28:08and engineering fees, construction cost

28:10escalation, project management,

28:12permitting, testing, and other related

28:13expenses.

28:15Um I'm reading these and these seem like

28:17general

28:18um building things that we would need.

28:20So, I'm I'm I guess I'm confused about

28:22why that was not included in the

28:23estimate. And then the other piece of it

28:26was talking about the lead

28:28um and other issues at East End. And I

28:30feel like we also knew that in advance.

28:32So, I'm just hoping you can help me

28:34understand why the discrepancy was so

28:35great.

28:37>> Sure. Um

28:39the

28:42bond estimate of 34 million was largely

28:45based on the Splash and Play report from

28:482023.

28:49Uh those were all very highly conceptual

28:52level estimates

28:54um

28:56based on

28:59concepts at the time. Um

29:02the soft cost so what so called soft

29:05costs were not integrated into that 34.

29:16>> I mean

29:18I

29:20I'm not sure that answers my question

29:21about maybe why um these are costs that

29:25we I would assume know that we

29:27would need to take on and so and we put

29:31this out and I think my extra concern is

29:32that we put it out to a bond and we told

29:36the public a a general cost and

29:38obviously we can't we can't always um

29:42anticipate everything but these do seem

29:44like things that we could anticipate and

29:45so I'm just I'm wondering if there's any

29:48more information you can share on that.

29:51>> Um

29:52I apologize. I don't have uh the

29:54information of

29:56the number at the time and the number

29:58we're at currently.

29:59Um

30:01There

30:03it was a high level

30:05um estimate uh using conceptual level

30:07development plans.

30:09Um

30:11They were

30:12they were not vetted to um any

30:15preliminary design

30:17extent.

30:23>> Council member Kirtley happy in the

30:25follow-up information before

30:28Obviously we're asking council to vote

30:30today to approve but we'd be happy to

30:32provide additional context. I don't have

30:34the information that you're requesting

30:36but we'd be happy to go back,

30:38uh, provide more detail about what was

30:39in the scope,

30:40uh, when the project went out to bond,

30:43uh, and how that scope has changed. I do

30:45know that the scope has shifted fairly

30:47significantly as, uh, neighborhood

30:50engagement has taken place and has and

30:52additional, uh,

30:54um, planning and design around the

30:56project. I think it is the scope has

30:58grown significantly beyond the splash

31:01and play in part because of the

31:02relocation of the aquatic facility that

31:05that had been at Long Meadow and is now

31:07really that is being replaced by the new

31:10aquatic center at Wheels. Uh, and so in

31:12in in backfilling that, I think the

31:14determination was made to create a much

31:16more substantial community facility than

31:19just the splash and play that was

31:20originally conceived for uh, Long Meadow

31:22and East End. That said, I think your

31:25questions belong, you know, are around

31:27which elements of the project were

31:29initially included, what professional

31:32services, and so I don't have that

31:33specific information. We'd have to

31:35provide that as follow-up.

31:36>> Yeah, and I guess I'm concerned, too,

31:37about how much the scope can change

31:39after it's been put to a bond. And, um,

31:42and so those things feel unclear and I'm

31:43I'm going to maybe address those a

31:45little bit more, but I have a couple

31:46more questions that I wanted to ask. Um,

31:48is this a grant that we're likely to

31:50receive?

31:51>> Uh, highly likely, yes. I do It is a

31:54national competition. Um, the grant is,

31:58uh, federal federally funded competitive

32:00grant nationwide. It's a two-stage

32:04submission process where, uh, it goes

32:06through a state review. Each state, uh,

32:08reviews their own applications and, uh,

32:11makes a nomination of applicants each

32:13state receive.

32:15Um, but we do are are high contenders

32:18for receiving the grant.

32:20>> And if we don't receive the grant, do we

32:22have Is there a backup plan?

32:24>> Um, we are in we are currently in, uh,

32:28value engineering with the project right

32:30now.

32:31Um,

32:32uh,

32:33kind of tweaking and modifying, uh,

32:35scope to

32:37uh, whittle everything down and uh

32:40uh we're in the process of that right

32:42now.

32:45>> Um and then I'm not sure if this is a

32:47question for you or perhaps someone

32:50else, I don't know. Um but we've set

32:52aside about $15 million

32:55for remediation

32:57um and is that money being tapped into

33:00at all for this work or do we have plans

33:03to look at it?

33:04>> Um that conversation hasn't happened

33:07yet, but it will be shortly. Um

33:11this project East end Long Meadow has

33:13three different projects uh combined

33:16into one being the bond project, the

33:18pre-regulatory landfill along with the

33:20R. Kelly Bryant Bridge Trail that goes

33:22through the middle of the park. So, uh

33:24there are a lot of moving parts. Uh

33:27right now we are moving uh to develop uh

33:31remediation options with the design

33:34consultant on the bond project team so

33:37that we can understand uh the recommend

33:40remediation option and what sort of

33:42recreational features can serve as those

33:45remediation pieces. So, we're trying to

33:49tee all this up to understand what

33:52uh percentage or dollar amount we might

33:54request from that uh pre-regulatory

33:57budget.

33:59>> Okay.

34:01>> [clears throat]

34:01>> Thank you. Yeah, um

34:04I Yeah, I see my colleagues have some

34:06some questions, too. I'm I'm feeling

34:08I I understand the immediacy of the of

34:11the issue and I certainly I don't want

34:12to get into the way of of grant

34:14requesting, but I am feeling

34:17um uncomfortable with the fact that it

34:19the scope of this has changed so much

34:21that we are having to look for an

34:22additional I think it was like a million

34:2415 million 15 million dollars after we

34:28um

34:29and we and I must say we cuz all of us

34:31up here I think signed off on um

34:34on publicity around this and and went

34:36into the community talking about what we

34:38were going to offer for the vote of this

34:40bond and it's it's a big thing for

34:42taxpayers to take on that money.

34:43[clears throat]

34:44Um so I am concerned about the change in

34:46scope that is so great that it

34:48necessitates us going after a $15

34:50million

34:51grant to sort of make it happen um

34:54especially given that we we did know

34:56about several of these things ahead of

34:58time and I'm going to let my colleague

34:59speak for a little while but it's

35:01concerning.

35:02>> Uh

35:03Mr. [clears throat] Mayor

35:05We don't Well, you going to address this

35:06as well?

35:07Uh you stood up.

35:08With intention.

35:09>> I

35:10I want I'm going to be

35:12>> Okay. All right, Council member Bruce,

35:13go ahead.

35:14>> Yeah, let

35:15>> Go if you want to respond, yeah, and

35:17then I'll have you jump in.

35:18>> Not sure. I I will go ahead and say that

35:21the the splash and play report that you

35:22guys that we did in 2023 only accounted

35:25for pricing through 2025.

35:27Um at this point, this project is not

35:29going to deliver until 2029.

35:32So there's

35:33four or five years of escalation that

35:35was never factored into your cost

35:38estimate that was provided to you all

35:40that went to a bond referendum voted on

35:42in November.

35:44Um the development has shifted a little

35:46bit from what was presented to the

35:48public in November because

35:51we've brought on a design team and we've

35:53gone through full vetting of the program

35:56and the site assessments and the

35:57conditions and the restrictions on the

35:59site, the contamination,

36:01um the flood plain implications and

36:03we've had to move some of those

36:04features. Um as you have seen as part of

36:07one of our exhibits is a revised

36:09rendering. That is very different

36:11actually than what you than what the

36:13bond what the

36:14uh

36:15bond approved in November. The current

36:17plan is different. As with that comes

36:20cost changes because features are now

36:22located differently than they were

36:24originally as part of it. So there is

36:26there is elevated cost as part of

36:29a revised plan.

36:31The features are all the same as far as

36:33what the program was, pool, courts, all

36:37those type of elements, but the

36:39placement of them and what that impact

36:41is has driven the cost of construction

36:43up.

36:45>> And if I could just give one example of

36:47that, the relocation of the pool is now

36:50going to East End on the west side of

36:53Austin and

36:55early indications are that there's a lot

36:57of bedrock there.

36:59Um but the the intent of moving that

37:02pool to the most highest and driest

37:04portion because its previous location

37:07was in the floodway.

37:08So there are

37:10very many different dynamics influencing

37:14the shape of

37:16the park development.

37:19>> Thank you, Ms. Mayor. So I guess I have

37:20similar questions. So um

37:22so when these original estimates were

37:23done,

37:25who was responsible for that? Was that

37:26like DPR? Is that General Services? Is

37:28that the Finance Department? Who was Who

37:30was responsible for developing those

37:31estimates? Cuz I agree with

37:32Councilmember Cook. Some of these things

37:34I mean or as you said, some things can

37:35change, but some of these costs around

37:37that engineering and so forth are

37:38probably costs you would expect to be

37:40included. So like is it a is it a

37:42question of like one department doing

37:44the analysis, somebody else putting it

37:45on the bond? Like how how did how did

37:47that happen?

37:48>> From my understanding um

37:52I

37:53I wasn't here specifically when that

37:55Splash and Play report was developed,

37:57but that number came directly from the

38:00cost estimate in the Splash and Play

38:02report. So um

38:05it was directly

38:06>> And that report was That was who managed

38:08that report?

38:08>> Parks and Rec.

38:11Yeah. I

38:12Parks and Rec. Parks and Rec developed

38:14the Splash and Play, which was that

38:15piece and Wheels and came to Council in

38:19spring of 2023, I believe.

38:21>> And we were And they worked with the

38:22Ratio, which was the design firm at that

38:24time. Ratio's not the not the current

38:26design firm

38:28for the park. Yeah, so I understand

38:30obviously the as projects evolve, as the

38:32as you find bedrock, that So things do

38:34change, right? Um but I think there is

38:37I think we continue to face this

38:38challenge of this kind of

38:39communications, political challenge with

38:40our residents. We went to the residents

38:42and said this is a big plan. We want to

38:44want you to invest in the bond. And now

38:45we're saying it's going to cost a lot

38:46more. Also, we also I know on the

38:49streets and sidewalks said this is

38:50shovel-ready stuff, we can do it in a

38:51couple years. Now we're saying 29 on

38:54this thing. Is it Have we pushed the

38:55timeline out on the delivery of the two

38:57parks?

38:59>> A little bit. The timeline has been

39:01pushed a little bit. I mean, we're still

39:03we're still trying to get this started

39:05in 2028, and it's possible that we can

39:08deliver a portion of the park in 2028.

39:11Um but there are still challenges ahead

39:12of us with the remediation and whatnot.

39:13There There is aspects of this park that

39:15we can't do until we address

39:17remediation, whether we do that

39:19internally with the $12 million that you

39:21mentioned earlier, or whether we do that

39:23with the EQ's uh assistance, which they

39:25haven't even developed a RAP yet for

39:27that park.

39:28>> Council member Ernesto

39:29>> I I do want to

39:31offer a different interpretation. I I

39:33would not have described the bond

39:35projects as a list of shovel-ready

39:37projects. Shovel-ready implies designed

39:39and ready to build.

39:40>> The park's not, but I think the I think

39:41the roads and sidewalks we said yes.

39:43>> Yes. Ro- Roads and sidewalks, I think

39:44the parks were all All of the park

39:46projects were at a conceptual level. And

39:49so, while I certainly hear and don't

39:51object to very fair questions about why

39:54did the scope increase, uh I want to

39:56make it clear that we, you know, when we

39:58have conceptual level like the splash

40:00and play plan, that is before

40:02engineering has taken place. That is

40:04before a lot of the site work has taken

40:06place. Certainly, it is our desire for

40:08those estimates to be as accurate as

40:10possible. And when they are not, you

40:12know, the other thing that uh Mr.

40:13Chaplick offered that that I I want to

40:15make sure Council heard is there is also

40:18a value engineering discussion taking

40:20place. So, the you know, as we do with

40:23all projects, we we don't just assume

40:25new money, we also assume we may have to

40:27change the scope and scale. And so,

40:29there are options being looked at and

40:31developed if we are not able to achieve

40:33the full scope of the project, uh and if

40:35we are not able to fund the grant. So, I

40:38just I don't want that to be lost. And

40:39again, that's not to push back on fair

40:41questions about when did the scope

40:42change, how much did it change, are

40:45there things we should have considered

40:46But

40:47uh you know, all questions we've had at

40:49this dais before and that continue to be

40:51looked at, but just wanted to count let

40:54council know that we know we we do also

40:56look at constraining the scope, changing

40:59the scope, finding ways to save money in

41:01the project if there's any way to do

41:02that, and I think certainly we want to

41:04support going after additional money to

41:06try and maximize the benefit to this

41:08neighborhood if we can.

41:09>> Yeah, and I appreciate that, and I

41:10appreciate staff being creative to sign

41:11to find other sources of funds. Federal

41:13dollars are certainly always

41:14appreciated. I guess my question related

41:16to that, and this comes out of some of

41:17the transit work we've done, like does

41:19applying for these funds

41:22um

41:22and also does it sort of like relying on

41:24the state, the pre-regulatory landfill

41:26program, does relying on those funds or

41:28budgeting those funds, does that also

41:30push the timeline out further? Cuz this

41:31has happened on transit stuff where

41:33we're sort of waiting for federal

41:34dollars, we have to push back. I think

41:35that's part of the issue with the uh

41:37>> The issue with the trails.

41:38>> Yeah, yeah. So is that is does this

41:40accepting these federal dollars, does

41:41that kind of also push our timeline out?

41:44>> Um

41:45I don't think so because one of the

41:47criteria for this particular grant is uh

41:50the feasibility of the project or the

41:52shovel readiness of the project. This

41:54grant wants to know that the project

41:57will move forward if they handed us um

42:00an award. So that is one of the five

42:03criteria that is considered that this

42:05project is well-developed, well um

42:08thought through, and and having uh

42:11robust plans in place to understand and

42:14ready to go when it is issued. Um

42:17>> Are there are there additional sort of

42:18like approvals we need on sort of

42:20whether it's environmental or different

42:22sort of approvals that can also slow it

42:23down? That's the other thing that

42:24happens sometimes with different pots of

42:26funds or different sort of levels of

42:28authorization.

42:29>> Like the permitting review.

42:30>> Exactly, yeah.

42:31>> Not not to our knowledge.

42:33>> Not to our knowledge.

42:35>> Thank you.

42:39>> Thank you. Um I just want to

42:41thank my colleagues for asking a lot of

42:43good questions. I think what would be

42:44helpful um is to have an analysis

42:46because raise grants for transportation

42:48or transit projects may operate

42:50differently than this type of project.

42:52Uh I think it would be helpful to have a

42:55understanding of

42:56um because it's federal dollars, there's

42:58a lot of

43:00um

43:01oversight. And what we've concluded, at

43:03least on on a lot of the projects that

43:05are smaller in scope and whatnot, is

43:07we're just not applying for them. We are

43:09just going to have to use local money,

43:10and if it means it's less projects, at

43:12least we got it delivered more quickly.

43:14Um so, I think it would be helpful to

43:16have that analysis for these kinds of

43:17projects in this federal program because

43:20I understand federal programs operate

43:21differently from one another, and they

43:23may there may be different different

43:25different regulatory framework. But,

43:27we've learned very painfully that the

43:29three trail projects that we still

43:31haven't completed, one of which is

43:33through this park,

43:35those federal dollars, quite frankly,

43:36weren't worth it because we would have

43:38already had the thing built. And so,

43:41yeah, it would have been local dollars,

43:42but then the thing got built. And so,

43:44you save the money on the construction

43:45costs because every every 6 months that

43:47we wait is more money on construction.

43:50And I think that that's the refrain that

43:52has been on this council and previous

43:54councils, and I've certainly been one of

43:56the I don't I would rather get five

43:58things done and they're done than have

44:0020 things in a plan.

44:02And I think that that's the orientation

44:03that we need from staff. All

44:05departments, any I don't care if you're

44:06transportation or if you're parks and

44:09rec or you're general services.

44:11Delivery of projects as quickly as

44:14possible so that we are not having to

44:16change contingency funds every other

44:18work cycle because we waited 6 months

44:20because we got some money over here, but

44:22it's not worth it at the end of the day.

44:23And we're just we're not seeing that as

44:25a council. We're not seeing that level

44:26of analysis. And

44:29city staff does incredible work, but

44:30this is just honestly one of our worst

44:32pain points.

44:34Uh because residents, that's what they

44:35experience.

44:37Right? That they they have to see the

44:39LRB Creek Road Duke

44:41uh Duke Road dug up. That project was

44:43LRB Creek was first talked about in

44:452018. We approved the money in 2019. Why

44:48isn't it done yet?

44:49And we understand that there's hard

44:51pieces. One of the other things I want

44:52to lift up is do we need to think about

44:55getting projects to a certain point in

44:56design? That's something else that we're

44:58learning in transportation projects. So,

45:00okay, there's granite bedrock. We all

45:02deal with that. Should that have been

45:03investigated earlier so that when we are

45:06putting it out there, we get that it's

45:08not just conceptual. And that doesn't

45:10help this project necessarily and I hear

45:12what you're saying about the realities

45:13on the ground and this is challenging.

45:15But then what are the lessons learned

45:17and how are we applying them moving

45:19forward because at least from what I can

45:20see it's it we're we're not often doing

45:22that. At least that's my perspective.

45:25And we need to to do better and I think

45:27that that's what residents are expecting

45:29from us.

45:35>> I want to thank my colleagues for the

45:36comments and questions which I associate

45:38myself with. Um just a couple follow-up

45:41questions for my understanding.

45:43So in in in question of the soft costs,

45:46um were those included for the splash

45:48pad but just not for this expanded scope

45:51that came through all the additional

45:53community engagement?

45:55>> No. Um the initial numbers that were

46:00integrated with the splash and play

46:01report did not include soft cost

46:03overall.

46:04>> Okay. And is that typical

46:07practice from the front end of budgeting

46:09or when we're thinking about bonds about

46:12what gets included and not included? Is

46:13that standard practice or does it vary?

46:17>> Um

46:19I I believe it varies but quite

46:21just

46:22be fully honest, I don't know

46:24what it takes to get to a bond um

46:27in

46:28all the vetting that

46:31surrounds that.

46:32>> Okay. I think that'd be a helpful

46:33follow-up question too just for my

46:34understanding.

46:36Um

46:37then you mentioned the park

46:39contamination which is a limiting factor

46:41as well. Just remind me in terms of the

46:42timelines here. Was that information

46:45known at the time or did that

46:47information come after the bond?

46:52And this park

46:53>> going on at the same time. Um I don't I

46:57I again, I'm not

46:59intimately familiar with the timeline

47:01details, but the Splash and Play report

47:02was going on um

47:052022, finished in 2023, and I believe

47:08that it was just in 20 that very time

47:11frame that the

47:13identity of the contamination was uh

47:17uh brought to light. [clears throat]

47:18>> Okay.

47:20Um

47:22you know, obviously if I think the

47:24questions about potential limitations

47:26are really important ones. So, I'd like

47:28to know the result of that inquiry.

47:31If there's limitations aren't there,

47:32obviously if we can get federal funds

47:34through this grant program, that would

47:35be beneficial.

47:37Um, how much can we redirect from

47:40So, I guess like if we were to get this

47:4215 million, then allows us to redirect

47:4415 million

47:46to other projects that are in the

47:48pipeline, or is this just

47:50going toward the the overage unless we

47:53value engineer it back down to something

47:55closer to the original estimate, which

47:58maybe isn't possible because this is a

48:00much, you know, expanded concept than a

48:03splash pad. Sorry, I'm just

48:05>> Yeah.

48:05>> working through my my process here.

48:06>> Um, I believe it's closing the gap

48:08essentially.

48:09>> Correct. The the 15 million is to close

48:11the current gap.

48:13Okay, and then allows us to go from a

48:15splash pad to a much more informed um

48:19and um

48:21you know, uh

48:22uh concept with a lot more amenities for

48:25the the public as well.

48:27>> Yes, I'll say the same amenities that

48:30was in your Splash and Play report.

48:31>> Okay.

48:32>> We we have held place with

48:34We have to this point at least

48:37um, we have have held very close to the

48:40original

48:42top priority of recreational amenities

48:44that were identified in the Splash and

48:46Play report.

48:47>> Okay.

48:47>> Um, number one being the pool

48:50uh the splash pad um and just go on

48:53down. There's there's a list of 10, but

48:55we currently have been able to hold on

48:57to each and every one of those

48:59recreational amenities.

49:01>> So, is it then more the the remediation

49:04and just like the the the time cost

49:07of the of the delay of it taking longer

49:10that are mainly contributing to the gap

49:11if the amenities are

49:13the same as what was originally

49:14envisioned plus the soft costs? Those

49:16are

49:16>> It's a big I'm sorry, it's a big

49:18contributing factor. Yes, the the 5

49:20years of escalation, that's a big

49:22number.

49:23Everyone knows we would love to pay what

49:25we were paying in 2022 2023 than what

49:27we're paying today or in 5 years from

49:29now. So, that is a big driver of the

49:31cost in the current market.

49:33>> All right. Okay, thank you.

49:40Councilmember Cook.

49:42>> Thank you, yeah. And I don't want to

49:43belabor this and this is not

49:45I know it feel Y'all are in the hot

49:46seat. It's not about y'all. I think that

49:48everyone up here wants to ensure that it

49:50just is working well moving forward. Um

49:53I think for me additionally uh with what

49:56Mayor Pro Tem Cabildo said, other things

49:58that would be helpful to would be a

50:00breakdown of where these costs are

50:01coming from cuz I hear you saying a

50:03couple of things are kind of carrying

50:05the weight, but again the the memo sort

50:07of includes all of these different

50:09things and and several of them were

50:10absolutely predictable. Like we

50:12absolutely knew that we were going to

50:14need

50:15design.

50:16When you were going to need design. So,

50:17that one is predictable uh but some of

50:19these other things are not as

50:20predictable. So, I think a breakdown of

50:22where the costs are coming from would be

50:24helpful um

50:25and

50:27uh yeah, I think back to the lead

50:29conversation and I I wish that I had

50:32better notes on this, but it we were out

50:33in the community talking to community

50:35members about this and this came up. I

50:37want to be really clear, it came up

50:39every single time that we talked about

50:41this park. Every single time community

50:43asked us, "Well, this is one of the

50:45parks that's contaminated. Is that going

50:47to impact this bond?" And and we were

50:50like, "We're thinking about this in the

50:53projections." I mean, we we That's what

50:55we said. That's what we said over and

50:56over and over again to the public. And

50:58so, it's like very alarming that we get

51:00to this point where we're like, "Oh

51:01gosh, actually the lead is causing us to

51:04have to move to a place with bedrock and

51:05whatever." Anyway, that wasn't exactly

51:07what you said, but um that is that feels

51:09very alarming to me that it's part of

51:12that remediation is is part of the the

51:14extra cost. Um

51:17Yeah, the bedrock wasn't the right

51:19example. Sorry, I I misstated that.

51:21>> are not part of the extra cost.

51:23Um

51:25that

51:27we are still those are part of the the

51:29solution of the park development.

51:32>> Okay.

51:32>> Um for instance,

51:34um a a remediation strategy is cap and

51:37cover that could be done with a field or

51:40a court. So, those features are already

51:43integrated.

51:44>> Okay.

51:44>> And will be account That's that's the

51:47remedial remedy.

51:49>> Okay. It is listed in the memo as

51:50something that's adding to the cost, so

51:53maybe that could in the cost breakdown

51:55would be

51:56would be way more clear.

51:58Um and then the other thing is to go

52:00back to Council Member Rice point and

52:02and I just want to ensure that we're

52:03having sort of collaboration among

52:06departments. Like, what is what is that

52:08collaboration looking like and at at

52:11what point

52:12Yeah, I mean, I see all of there, but I

52:14mean, at what point did we start and and

52:16can we do it differently in the future

52:18and um

52:19>> It's not just us. There's there's

52:20transportation. We we have There are

52:22other departments. We we we collaborate

52:24with all of the departments within the

52:27city. I've had conversations with

52:29transportation with

52:31uh with water management and and many

52:34others as to what's going on at this

52:36park and what impacts

52:38we need to adjacencies we need to

52:40account for.

52:41>> Okay.

52:42Cuz I mean, we've had we've had you and

52:44your colleagues standing up here as

52:46we've berated you on other on other

52:48deliverables, right? And and I will I do

52:50want to make sure that there is that

52:52conversation happening. It's happening

52:53early enough that we don't get here.

52:55>> So, let me lay down in front of that

52:56bulldozer. Uh the

52:58>> [laughter]

52:59>> um the So, obviously, this is uh a

53:02thematic conversation we've had at this

53:04dais uh for uh for a number of different

53:07projects in a number of different

53:08departments. And

53:11I know council's heard this before.

53:14You know, that there is a great deal of

53:15staff scrutiny and effort going into

53:20going into an examination

53:22project delivery schedules, project

53:24delivery costs, project delivery

53:26ownership, the ability to present

53:28project information to the public more

53:29clearly, stoplight reports, budget

53:32reports, and

53:35I don't in any way want to minimize any

53:37of the questions here, but but as some

53:40of the answers have pointed out, some of

53:42the planning here dates back to 2023

53:44before a lot of those conversations

53:46had the spotlight that they had. So,

53:47these are fair questions. They are

53:50appropriate for the public to have

53:51concerns about and for the council to

53:52have concerns about. You know, I think

53:55the intention here is to try and execute

53:58this project I think

54:01I think the primary objective that staff

54:03has in bringing this proposal forward is

54:05to execute the project at the scope that

54:07the community saw.

54:10And I think all the questions about why

54:12the prices were wrong are fair questions

54:14that we I think you have verbalized here

54:17and will provide additional information

54:19about. I would then go on to say

54:22that

54:24this project and the the lack of clarity

54:28around some of these questions is not

54:30reflective

54:31the fact that there is a lot of work

54:33going into how to address these

54:34questions going forward, but as council

54:37is well aware the the project the the

54:39process for conceiving of

54:43budgeting for, planning, executing,

54:46building, and christening new projects

54:48is a long project. So, I think

54:50realistically the results of that

54:52planning effort are not going to show up

54:54in some projects that are currently in

54:55the pipeline. In the meantime, I think

54:58we have an obligation to be as clear as

55:00we can about what we got right, what we

55:02got wrong,

55:03where we're at, and how to to move

55:05forward. And so, I appreciate uh staff's

55:07answers today which the answers that we

55:10did not have uh we will endeavor to get

55:12as straightforward as possible, but I

55:14will just reiterate again and it

55:16probably won't be the last time that we

55:17have more work to do and just that that

55:20work is very intentionally uh underway

55:23and receiving a lot of attention at the

55:24administrative level and the executive

55:26level.

55:29>> Thank you. I appreciate that. Um and uh

55:32look forward to whenever we get that

55:33information, hopefully sooner than later

55:35as a work session agenda item. What are

55:37the processes that have been examined?

55:38What are the

55:40What are the you know, do a forensic

55:41analysis, show us where the hiccups are,

55:43bring it back to us so we can understand

55:45it, and bring it back to us if there's a

55:46budgetary implication on actually we

55:48need more staff to do this thing.

55:50We can't make decisions the way we are

55:52making them right now. So and I get it

55:54like sometimes you need more staff, you

55:56need more project managers, right? We

55:58want it but at the end of the day it's

55:59still going to be cheaper than waiting 5

56:02years, waiting 7 years because of

56:04construction overrun. The last thing I

56:05want to say about this is

56:07is there a way because we we used a

56:09different um

56:11design firm in the conceptual than we

56:13are in the actual

56:15from a legal perspective, can we just

56:18run an RFP and pick the person from

56:20beginning to end? And so that way we are

56:22not using RFP cycles. It That's 3

56:25months, that's 6 months. Uh and so we

56:28know who we have, we can get the I get

56:30that they can't maybe give us

56:32they might give you a ballpark and 2

56:34years later there's some construction,

56:35but at least you're not having to lose

56:37the time in RFP process. So those are

56:39the kinds of things that I think are

56:40helpful and I think that's very in the

56:42weeds, but it matters. 6 months matters,

56:44that's thousands of dollars. Um so when

56:47staff is analyzing this, that those are

56:50the details I think council's asking

56:52for. We're not just asking for

56:54kind of big picture. We want to

56:55understand deeply what is it that is

56:58Where is it getting caught? From concept

57:02is it public engage I don't care. We

57:04brought all public engagement in-house

57:05so that we wouldn't have to run RFPs for

57:07community folks and we have great staff

57:10that can do engagement. Whatever it is,

57:12please analyze it and bring it back and

57:14let us know where the actual pain points

57:17and what do we need to do about it.

57:23>> And Mr. Mayor, so we're being asked

57:24today just to approve the application

57:26for the dollars, right? So

57:28it's

57:28>> [clears throat]

57:28>> So I

57:29>> Correct.

57:29>> So if I'm if I'm not mistaken, if we

57:32receive the 50 million, we'll also have

57:33to have a motion to receive the dollars.

57:35So if there's it turns out there's

57:36additional red tape or timing, we can at

57:37that point then address that, right?

57:40>> Yep.

57:40>> Okay. Thank you.

57:43>> So I

57:46Right. [clears throat]

57:47Are there any other comments on it?

57:49Okay. And and I I think everything's

57:51pretty much been said. As I was

57:53listening to my colleagues, uh the

57:54public doesn't

57:56the public is not going to break down

57:57the technicalities of this. They're just

57:59going to trust us to be able to do

58:02deliver in the simplest form what

58:05they've asked for.

58:06Um

58:07And and you know, hiccups like this

58:09makes it really difficult to

58:10communicate. Uh and we are living in a

58:12time where people will take very

58:14unsettle information and manipulate it.

58:16So um

58:18don't feel like you have to like

58:20you know, baby it up for us. Give us the

58:22details. Give us the technicalities so

58:24that we can also fully understand and we

58:26can communicate that to the public in

58:28general.

58:29Um

58:30I it's

58:32We did go to the public. We asked

58:34the public to trust us on a bond.

58:37And

58:38now it's coming back with changes and

58:40with exorbitant cost

58:42increases because of inflation and all

58:44things.

58:45Um the public would A layman person

58:48would say, "Well, didn't you all know

58:49that?"

58:50>> [laughter]

58:51>> So um

58:52Yeah, I think these are lessons learned.

58:55And um the more money we can get,

58:56especially in a grant form, would be

58:57better. So I I'll support it, but I just

59:00let's take this as a lesson.

59:03All right, there's a motion and a

59:04second.

59:05Um

59:06All in favor?

59:07>> I.

59:08>> I. All opposed?

59:10All right, thank you.

59:11>> Thank you.

59:17>> All right, that was item number 12.

59:19That's addressed.

59:22All right, you back up to the first one.

59:23Item number four, was it?

59:25All right.

59:28Item number four. We do have resource

59:30individuals online for this.

59:34All right, renewal contract for state

59:35and federal lobbying for uh services.

59:37All right, Mr. Baker, you pulled it.

59:39>> Yeah. Uh so, we um operate within a very

59:44broken uh larger system. Um

59:48I think lobbying is important.

59:51The apartment association has lobbyists.

59:53The Home Builders Association has

59:54lobbyists. The bankers have lobbyists.

59:57Local government should have lobbyists

59:59uh to um

1:00:02So,

1:00:04I'm curious I've just a few questions

1:00:06here. So, the payments so, we pay about

1:00:1010,000

1:00:11the the the contract amount that we have

1:00:13in front of us is based on $10,000 at

1:00:15the state level, $7,000 a month at the

1:00:18federal level plus expenses, right?

1:00:20>> Yes.

1:00:21>> Is that the way that we pay like

1:00:22invoicing or or is it that is necessary

1:00:26>> monthly invoices for each The Vergines

1:00:28Group and Checkmate. Um so, the amount

1:00:30that you're seeing there is for a 4-year

1:00:33term cuz this is a renewal of the

1:00:34current We're currently in a 2-year term

1:00:36that ends on October 7th. So, it's

1:00:39um an extension for an additional 2

1:00:41years. So, yes, we get monthly invoices

1:00:42for both organizations.

1:00:43>> Okay, and that's if

1:00:45they don't have much work one month,

1:00:46we're still paying them. If they have a

1:00:48lot of work the next month, it's the

1:00:50same amount.

1:00:50>> So, it it's uh the amount doesn't vary

1:00:52from month to month. But, we do

1:00:53regularly meet monthly,

1:00:56weekly with um

1:00:58with these organi with both the federal

1:01:00and state lobbyists.

1:01:01>> Okay. Um and then

1:01:04I'm curious kind of where the roles and

1:01:06responsibilities begin and end between

1:01:08our lobbyists and our local delegation

1:01:12at the state and federal level,

1:01:14um organizations like League of

1:01:16Municipalities,

1:01:17do are they are they supporting one

1:01:19another?

1:01:20Are

1:01:21our lobbyists serving a critical role

1:01:23that

1:01:25that these other entities and

1:01:26organizations are not able to to serve?

1:01:29>> So, yes.

1:01:31For the latter part of that question, so

1:01:33our for example, our state lobbyists

1:01:36does interact with the various state

1:01:39departments, as various delegation

1:01:41members for the city of Durham as well

1:01:44as members of the General Assembly at

1:01:46large on to move forward the legislative

1:01:50agenda items that this body has voted on

1:01:52and are important for the city. It is

1:01:55similar actions on the federal level.

1:01:57Our federal lobbyists engage regularly

1:02:00with our federal delegation in receiving

1:02:02and obtaining letters of support for

1:02:04various opportunities that the city

1:02:06submits, as well as working to help us

1:02:09draft comments for any legislation

1:02:11that's coming down and through and

1:02:13helping us navigate those waters

1:02:16in both the state and federal level. We

1:02:18have a you know, a different

1:02:19organization for both.

1:02:22>> Are we kind of tracking

1:02:24what we're spending versus kind of what

1:02:27we're getting like our ROI? Are we

1:02:29I think that's probably really

1:02:30challenging to calculate, but but do we

1:02:33have some sort of way of that of keeping

1:02:37that accountable and tracking that?

1:02:39>> So, we did just have two presentations,

1:02:41one with our federal and state lobbyists

1:02:43that kind of outlined what the city the

1:02:45benefits city has received over

1:02:48at at least this last session

1:02:50specifically with the Ferguson Group.

1:02:52They outlined that within this term

1:02:54within their term this two-year term

1:02:55they've

1:02:57helped the city with $3 million and 31

1:03:00$3 million 31 of appropriations through

1:03:03the city. Through their advocacy work as

1:03:06well as for the checkmate, they helped

1:03:08us obtain a speed limit reduction bill

1:03:10which the city has had on our list of

1:03:13things for at least five years if not

1:03:15longer than that. So, those those are

1:03:19are two of the ROIs that we have

1:03:20received specifically by working with

1:03:22both of these organizations.

1:03:27>> That's That's it for me for now.

1:03:30>> Mayor Pro Tem.

1:03:31>> Thank you. I just want to provide some,

1:03:33um,

1:03:34history for folks. Actually, it was

1:03:36former, uh, State Senator Woodard who

1:03:38actually, uh, really, really leaned in

1:03:40hard on the City of Durham since 2018,

1:03:42uh, at least when I joined this council,

1:03:44uh, to hire lobbyists. It was his

1:03:46belief, and he said it at many, uh,

1:03:48delegation breakfasts, it was his belief

1:03:50that we were leaving, uh, dollars on the

1:03:52table. Uh, and it was his belief that we

1:03:54were one of the only large cities at

1:03:56that time that did not have hired

1:03:58lobbyists. Um, I also want to just

1:03:59thank, at the time, uh, the legislative

1:04:02committee, it was a decision, uh, to

1:04:04hire two different lobbying firms

1:04:06because the federal and state lobbying

1:04:08nature was was quite different and and

1:04:10the approach is quite different. So,

1:04:11that was a decision, uh, that we made,

1:04:13um,

1:04:14I believe in 2023. I could be mistaken

1:04:16about the year, but I just wanted to

1:04:17provide that that context and history

1:04:20for folks, uh, watching just so that

1:04:22they know why and when we made decisions

1:04:24and and, uh, I think that they've been

1:04:26good decisions and I appreciated the two

1:04:27presentations we've already received

1:04:29kind of sharing, uh, the dollars we we

1:04:31got back, uh, the

1:04:33the challenging legislation we've been

1:04:35able to pass. I want to say it was

1:04:37Representative Hawkins who first

1:04:38introduced the speed limit bill, I think

1:04:41probably in 2018 or 2019. I'm not I

1:04:44don't remember quite the year, but it's

1:04:45been a number of years and I think the

1:04:48the ability of having lobbyists really

1:04:50speaking to folks and and in those

1:04:52buildings, and I get it. It's not the

1:04:53It's not the way I want to spend our our

1:04:55local dollars necessarily, but, um, that

1:04:57is the nature of of what of what Raleigh

1:05:00and DC have become, certainly right now.

1:05:09>> All right, and

1:05:10>> [clears throat]

1:05:10>> excuse me.

1:05:11I, um, I I joined the council during

1:05:14those conversations,

1:05:16and, uh, I know, you know,

1:05:20understanding the the the nature of the

1:05:22federal and state level politics is very

1:05:24different than what goes on inside our

1:05:26rooms. Uh there will be some that say,

1:05:28"Hey, you know, why are you know, we're

1:05:29progressive city, why are you hiring,

1:05:31you know, Republican folks or whatever?"

1:05:34Um I think at the advisement of our

1:05:36delegation, uh they advised us to bring

1:05:39on a lobbying firm, and what we did

1:05:42actually, fortunately, we brought on the

1:05:44top ones, the top-rated uh lobbying

1:05:47firms at the state level and the federal

1:05:49level. Uh they're scoring very high at

1:05:51the very top, uh and our issues are are

1:05:54a bit different than some organizations

1:05:56across the state.

1:05:57Um

1:05:58and

1:05:59the the idea of having a lobbying firm

1:06:02is to make sure that we uh one, have

1:06:04eyes in the room at the federal level

1:06:06and the state level, making sure we're

1:06:07not missing any opportunities.

1:06:09Uh

1:06:10it's not to politicize, but it's also to

1:06:12be very political.

1:06:14Um

1:06:15and politically engaged to make sure

1:06:17that we are getting uh as best we

1:06:19possibly can the things that we want

1:06:21here locally. Uh and the speed limit

1:06:24bill was just one thing, and that was

1:06:26actually not supposed to happen. Uh it

1:06:29was not favored by agencies, but we had

1:06:31enough influence at the state level

1:06:33through our lobbying firm, as well as

1:06:35working with our delegation to get that

1:06:36through.

1:06:37Um and sometimes, you know, you

1:06:41it's about what you're um

1:06:43what you're preventing from happening,

1:06:45or having the best advisement on uh

1:06:47things that are inevitable anyway. You

1:06:49know, uh and one thing I'm clocking

1:06:51right now is these three major

1:06:53constitutional amendments that are

1:06:54coming in November.

1:06:57We don't know whether the state is going

1:06:58to vote for these or not, but if they

1:06:59do, we have a strategy for if they if

1:07:02the state if constituency does vote for

1:07:05it, and we have a strategy for if they

1:07:06don't. You know, um so I I appreciate

1:07:09being in the room, being present, and

1:07:11being, you know, um amongst one of the

1:07:13strongest voices at the state and

1:07:15federal level.

1:07:16And no longer being the largest city

1:07:18without

1:07:19any representation of our own at the

1:07:21state and federal level.

1:07:22So.

1:07:26All right.

1:07:27>> Thank you.

1:07:32>> The next item

1:07:34>> Number nine.

1:07:35>> Number nine.

1:07:39>> Hello.

1:07:39>> Council

1:07:41>> [laughter]

1:07:42>> I'm sorry. I know I saw your name on

1:07:43there and I was like, oh, he's going to

1:07:44be thrilled. This is going to be so so

1:07:46quick, but actually slightly a lie.

1:07:49I know, really. It's famous last words.

1:07:50In line with the last questions, which

1:07:52is that

1:07:54I know that this is based off of a study

1:07:56from 2021. I know we're going to have

1:07:58costs that we don't anticipate, but some

1:08:00of these costs we can anticipate like

1:08:02repainting and these other things. So,

1:08:04can you talk a little bit about

1:08:07why we're looking at a second revision

1:08:08and also if we are going to be

1:08:10potentially looking at a third revision

1:08:13or any more moving forward?

1:08:17>> So.

1:08:17>> Okay.

1:08:18>> Council approved an addition million in

1:08:22this year's CIP

1:08:24to fund the remainder of the

1:08:28priority repairs that were generated as

1:08:30you alluded to in 2021.

1:08:32Um since then, that's 5 years

1:08:35of additional wear and tear

1:08:37and use of your working garages that

1:08:40never got those repairs done. So, we've

1:08:42had additional

1:08:43uh

1:08:44just wear and tear.

1:08:45And so, these items

1:08:48this

1:08:49amendment is to address some additional

1:08:50items that have come up in those 5 years

1:08:52that were not part of that original

1:08:54report. Um

1:08:56I would say it's more along that line,

1:08:57not not the escalation as much. It's

1:09:00more along that line to address those

1:09:02items.

1:09:03>> Okay.

1:09:04>> You already addressed

1:09:06the escalation in the CIP request.

1:09:08>> Okay.

1:09:09>> If that makes sense.

1:09:10>> Um and this is this is the second

1:09:12amendment, right? Okay. And so

1:09:16will will this final will we be able to

1:09:18finalize

1:09:20>> You we

1:09:20>> Yes, we anticipate being able to

1:09:22finalize. I mean, there's

1:09:25construction is an unknown and there's

1:09:27always unforeseen things that can come

1:09:28up, but

1:09:30this addresses all the needs of the

1:09:32current status of the six parking

1:09:35garages. Um

1:09:37and we feel good about what we have to

1:09:41to address with the funding that we have

1:09:42available.

1:09:43>> Okay. And then I asked this question of

1:09:46Director Egan when this came up

1:09:49previously, but

1:09:51um in as we're thinking about parking as

1:09:54a whole, um and we're sort of setting

1:09:57aside money to repair these garages,

1:10:00what kind of are are we also like

1:10:02looking at a more holistic

1:10:04I see you looking over. Are we looking

1:10:06at a more holistic picture of downtown

1:10:08parking?

1:10:09Um

1:10:10I know we're also like this fund is

1:10:13short. Um we're now offering free

1:10:15parking, which is going to short us on

1:10:16this fund even further. Um and so what

1:10:19are we doing and where are we in this

1:10:21like more holistic picture and looking

1:10:22at parking?

1:10:25>> I'll take it. Um

1:10:27Good afternoon, Mayor, Mayor Pro Tem,

1:10:28and members of Council. Shawn Egan,

1:10:30transportation director. Uh so, where we

1:10:33are with uh

1:10:35our parking assessment is we have scoped

1:10:40uh

1:10:41uh services to evaluate our parking

1:10:46existing facilities as well as parking

1:10:49levels of demand and then other publicly

1:10:51available parking in downtown Durham. Uh

1:10:55once we've completed that assessment, we

1:10:58can we'll have a much clearer

1:11:00understanding of uh the supply that's

1:11:03available and the demand uh and then

1:11:05where

1:11:06uh there may be opportunities to

1:11:08repurpose some of our parking assets. Uh

1:11:12and then we'd be moving into a second

1:11:14phase of that process to look at which

1:11:16particular assets

1:11:18uh would be it would be the most

1:11:19advantageous to repurpose. So, uh our

1:11:22goal is to get that that work underway

1:11:25in the next 60 days.

1:11:27Uh so, we're

1:11:29working on getting that

1:11:31getting an agreement in place to begin

1:11:34that work. But, we understand the sense

1:11:36of urgency around that analysis and

1:11:42bringing forward some recommendations

1:11:44around disposition. But, what we're

1:11:47talking about here is really

1:11:49structural needs for the facilities that

1:11:53we don't think that we can maintain the

1:11:55facilities in in working condition

1:11:58without completing these structural

1:12:00improvements.

1:12:01>> Thank you. Thank you. And so, that'll be

1:12:03underway in the next six Well, ideally

1:12:05underway in the next 60 days for that

1:12:07assessment. And then,

1:12:09do you all have a timeline

1:12:11up until like phase two would start?

1:12:13>> So, I think that the first phase looking

1:12:15at that supply and demand and that

1:12:17structure

1:12:18would be over say the next six months.

1:12:20So, to inform some final budget

1:12:23recommendations. And then, I think that

1:12:25the second phase looking at potential

1:12:27repurposing

1:12:28will extend into the next fiscal year.

1:12:30>> Thank you.

1:12:31Those are all my questions.

1:12:32>> Mayor Pro Tem.

1:12:34>> Thank you. Thank you for that. And I

1:12:35look forward to finding out kind of

1:12:37where we are in the life cycle of some

1:12:38of these garages cuz I think we're

1:12:41probably towards the end of some. Are we

1:12:42working with

1:12:44Housing and Neighborhood Services

1:12:46thinking when we do that repurposing

1:12:48piece of it when we there's some pretty

1:12:50key important lots that could be

1:12:52repurposed especially for housing. And

1:12:54so, just want to make sure that that

1:12:56housing plan is coming forward and we're

1:12:57not losing an opportunity to to connect

1:12:59back to that. So, that's just the one

1:13:01thing I wanted to make sure. And I know

1:13:02that the other thing that I've heard

1:13:04residents mention that I think is a good

1:13:05idea is the central lot right across

1:13:08from City Hall. Be a really beautiful

1:13:11park. So, just going to

1:13:14It is in the Thank you.

1:13:15Um

1:13:16>> So, yes. We'll be coordinating that work

1:13:18with

1:13:19Housing and Neighborhood Services as

1:13:21well as the General Services Department

1:13:23Real Estate.

1:13:24>> Thank you.

1:13:28>> All right. Thank you so much.

1:13:31Next item.

1:13:33>> I think it's 10 minutes also me and it's

1:13:34but it's not Chris, so that's good.

1:13:37Everyone's happy.

1:13:38>> [laughter]

1:13:42>> This is the compensation and

1:13:44classification study.

1:13:53>> Good afternoon. Aaron Miley, HR

1:13:54Director.

1:13:55>> Um thank you Director Miley and thank

1:13:57you for this um it was interesting to

1:14:00read about the responses to the RFPs.

1:14:02This is a very quick question, which is

1:14:04that I'm assuming you've already done

1:14:06sort of an assessment about cost of

1:14:08hiring somebody to do this in-house and

1:14:10having access to the resources. I know

1:14:12that there's some data that's not

1:14:13necessarily accessible, um but the cost

1:14:16of having somebody come in-house to do

1:14:18that work and having it access to that

1:14:21data um versus expending the 400,000 on

1:14:25a contract. I'm curious because

1:14:28um it seems to me that compensation and

1:14:30classification is going to be a a thing

1:14:32that we need to continue to study. Like

1:14:34one study Well, I mean we we have a

1:14:37study that's already outdated that's not

1:14:38from that long ago, right? And so it's

1:14:40these things are changing quickly. And

1:14:42so I'm wondering um what the sort of

1:14:44valuation was that y'all did looking at

1:14:47hiring externally versus potentially

1:14:49having somebody in-house.

1:14:50>> Yeah, you um hit the nail on the head

1:14:53just in the very beginning with the data

1:14:55itself is very expensive. So, that alone

1:14:58is part of what the a consultant brings

1:15:00to us, but also the expertise for the

1:15:02broad range of things that we're looking

1:15:04at right now. I think for us to do this

1:15:05in-house would take a decade compared to

1:15:088 months. Um maybe that's an

1:15:10exaggeration, but a very long time. Um

1:15:12the idea also of doing a study this

1:15:14broad right now, having done some

1:15:17similar studies a narrower scope in the

1:15:18past, is that we get to a more

1:15:21sustainable plan structure so that we

1:15:23have a defined maintenance plan that

1:15:25helps us sort of smooth out those

1:15:27increases over time. So, um

1:15:31I I know if that fully answers your

1:15:33question.

1:15:33>> Yeah, that's helpful.

1:15:34>> Okay.

1:15:35>> Um

1:15:36and when you say that it's going to take

1:15:38us a really long time in house, I know

1:15:39we don't have that person currently, but

1:15:41even if we were to get an expert in this

1:15:43field, it would still just because of

1:15:45resources take a a very long time in

1:15:48house?

1:15:48>> Well, we still need the internal

1:15:49resources to implement these things. So,

1:15:52the study itself, I don't think that we

1:15:54could replicate this internally.

1:15:55>> Okay. Thank you. Those were all my

1:15:57questions.

1:15:59>> Thanks, Ms. Mayor. Just one quick

1:16:00question. I appreciate that this is

1:16:01pretty detailed work and I understand it

1:16:03probably would take someone, as you

1:16:05said, could take a decade. So, having

1:16:06someone to do this deep work makes

1:16:07sense. I know this is both a

1:16:09compensation and a classification study,

1:16:10which is sort of related but different

1:16:13things. I just had one question since I

1:16:14just got back from my first meeting at

1:16:16the League of Municipalities. And so,

1:16:17they did reference there is like a

1:16:19salary survey and a fringe benefit

1:16:20survey the League does. And I'm just

1:16:22curious how like how valuable that would

1:16:25be to either to the city or a consultant

1:16:27as we go forward cuz as you said, we're

1:16:28going to keep doing this probably like

1:16:30regularly. So, I don't know if that's a

1:16:31resource you're aware of and and how and

1:16:33how rich that is in detail, but just to

1:16:35make sure you're aware that there is

1:16:36that that resource from the League.

1:16:38>> Mhm.

1:16:39>> [clears throat]

1:16:39>> Um I'm not aware of that particular

1:16:41resource, but I think that it will be

1:16:42helpful to us. Uh-huh. Um

1:16:45ideally, at some point, we can spend

1:16:48less money on studies like this when

1:16:49we're not taking a look at structure and

1:16:50classifications and we're really just

1:16:52going out to look at where market is. Um

1:16:54that is something we could consider

1:16:56doing in house at some point in the

1:16:57future.

1:16:58>> I would add that the I think the League

1:17:00survey is valuable, but we frequently

1:17:01include benchmark communities that are

1:17:03outside North Carolina. They're they're

1:17:05the the League's data

1:17:08is strictly related to North Carolina

1:17:11and since they're pretty small number of

1:17:13peer cities in terms of our size, size

1:17:15of our workforce, scope of our

1:17:16workforce, I think that data is helpful

1:17:19but insufficient to get the the full

1:17:21kind of market look that that we're

1:17:23going to need for the

1:17:25data. I I'm familiar with and we

1:17:26participate in that survey. I think it's

1:17:28a great resource, but I don't think it's

1:17:30enough of the data that we need to make

1:17:31those decisions.

1:17:33>> That's helpful. Thanks.

1:17:36>> Thank you so much.

1:17:37>> Thank you.

1:17:38>> [clears throat]

1:17:41>> Which was this?

1:17:44Hello.

1:17:48>> Item number 11.

1:17:49>> This is me and this is quick.

1:17:51Um

1:17:54What is that?

1:17:56>> Oh.

1:17:57>> Braden.

1:17:58>> Reading your handwriting here. I see.

1:18:00>> Sorry.

1:18:01Didn't tell you it was going to be neat.

1:18:03>> Yeah, item number 11.

1:18:05>> Hey, good afternoon, Mayor Mayor Pro

1:18:07Tem.

1:18:07>> Good afternoon.

1:18:08>> City Council. Braden Corwitz, Housing

1:18:10and Neighborhood Services.

1:18:12>> Thank you. I just have a really quick

1:18:13question. A lot of our boards and

1:18:15commissions as they've updated their

1:18:16bylaws, they've changed it so that they

1:18:18can provide recommendations on their

1:18:20applications to council. And so I was

1:18:21just wondering if we could include that

1:18:23because a lot of times they have a

1:18:24better sense of like what is it they

1:18:25might be missing on their board or

1:18:27commission that council may not know.

1:18:28And so

1:18:29>> Okay.

1:18:29>> that was it. Just giving them that

1:18:30opportunity. We don't have to It's just

1:18:32a recommendation and it doesn't have to

1:18:34be what we honor or who we vote for, but

1:18:36it is helpful to get that extra

1:18:37information. I think it's helpful

1:18:39anyway.

1:18:40>> Okay. Sounds good.

1:18:41I don't know if colleagues had an

1:18:42opinion on that, but

1:18:44>> One other thing, this may be less for

1:18:45Braden and more maybe from over the

1:18:46clerk's office. So I did note on this

1:18:48one that part of the changes here were

1:18:50like locations and times of meetings.

1:18:52And it seems like I don't know what kind

1:18:53of advice we're giving boards and

1:18:55commissions on their bylaws, but it

1:18:56seems like that level of detail of

1:18:58bylaws, they would need to be changed

1:19:00every time you change your meeting time

1:19:01and place is not an efficient way for

1:19:03for you or the boards or the city

1:19:04council to do business. So I don't know

1:19:06if there's advice you're giving cuz I

1:19:07think it having more general language

1:19:09probably makes sense about meeting, you

1:19:10know, whatever from time to time. I've

1:19:12seen that in some bylaws, but question

1:19:14for you all.

1:19:16>> I would actually defer to the city

1:19:17attorney's office. Anytime a board wants

1:19:19to make any bylaw change, we suggest

1:19:21that they come up with the verbage and

1:19:23then it gets screened through Sarah Laws

1:19:26with the city attorney's office before

1:19:27it gets placed as an agenda item for

1:19:30council to review and approve.

1:19:32>> Sophia Hernandez, the city attorney's

1:19:34office.

1:19:35I understand your question to be a bit

1:19:37broader about does it make sense to

1:19:40include such specifics as time and

1:19:42locations of the meetings?

1:19:44Um, I think we could certainly look at

1:19:46all the bylaws and kind of create a a

1:19:49capsule of what boards do you, what

1:19:51boards don't, and does it make sense. My

1:19:53guess is that I this is an assumption is

1:19:55that this might have happened because of

1:19:57the merger of the new department that we

1:19:58might have had to change locations from

1:20:01where they were meeting before now that

1:20:03they're this new housing and

1:20:04neighborhood services department. And so

1:20:06the location had to change because the

1:20:07department's location changed.

1:20:10Um, but

1:20:10>> Does it also include meeting time, like

1:20:12the day of the week? And so that seems

1:20:13like a level of granular detail that

1:20:14probably

1:20:15>> Yeah. And and I can again look into it.

1:20:17I know the council bylaws or rules of

1:20:19procedure similarly have that level of

1:20:21detail. So, happy to look into it and

1:20:22maybe bring that up at the next

1:20:24procedures meeting um to see if that

1:20:26makes sense um on a wider scale for all

1:20:29of our boards. Thank you.

1:20:32>> All right, thank you. Next item is item

1:20:35number 13, Councilmember

1:20:54Is your mic on, Councilmember?

1:20:55>> Sorry about that. Sorry. Thanks um

1:20:58Director Young. So, this is um these are

1:21:01three utility extension agreements,

1:21:03different properties, but these are all

1:21:04in that Goose Creek area, right?

1:21:07Correct. And so I guess my question is

1:21:08as as I understand this, I could be

1:21:10wrong in this, but as I understand on

1:21:11this first one, item 13, they would

1:21:14extend water and sewer once the

1:21:16improvements are completed, right? But

1:21:18for 14 and 15, they can connect now. So,

1:21:20I just want to understand like what's

1:21:22the level of analysis going on to

1:21:24determine who can connect now, who

1:21:25connect later just so I understand that.

1:21:28>> Sure. And I can give you a brief

1:21:30overview and then if my

1:21:33buddy old pal Rob wants to join me and

1:21:35elaborate some more, he can.

1:21:37Um, there are some differences in these

1:21:38cases, right? Like the first one, the

1:21:40Fern Street lots, uh

1:21:42it was a single lot that was then

1:21:44subdivided into a five lots. They

1:21:47rebuilt one house, there's four vacant.

1:21:49So, it would be like a quintupling,

1:21:51right, of development, um and there is

1:21:54not uh the ability to accommodate that

1:21:57prior to the improvements being

1:21:58completed. Some of these other UEAs that

1:22:00you see, um they may be replacing like

1:22:04for like or very similar. Like I know um

1:22:06you know, we've it's very We're seeing

1:22:08very commonly a uh like a three-bedroom

1:22:11house that's being demolished, and

1:22:13they're splitting it and doing two

1:22:14two-bedroom duplexes. So, that's only an

1:22:16increase of one bedroom, and there's

1:22:17enough capacity to to um handle that.

1:22:20So, the circumstances for these are

1:22:22individualized, and that's why they they

1:22:24do read a little bit differently. But,

1:22:26this would allow them to begin

1:22:27construction so that they can gain some

1:22:29time. They just can't connect um until

1:22:32the improvements are complete. But, Rob,

1:22:34do you want to add anything?

1:22:35>> I think that covers it.

1:22:36>> Okay.

1:22:38>> I appreciate that. Yeah, no, I Yeah, I

1:22:39just wanted to understand better, but I

1:22:40appreciate you sort of being sort of

1:22:42creative and helping folks to to move

1:22:44along if they even if they can't

1:22:45connect. So, I just wanted to confirm

1:22:46the process, but that makes sense to me.

1:22:48I appreciate the thought because of

1:22:49that.

1:22:50Thank you.

1:22:54All right. Next, Councilmember Cook.

1:22:56>> Thank you. Um this is number 17.

1:23:00This is the contract with UNC.

1:23:11>> Hello, Mayor, Mayor Pro Tem, City

1:23:13Council. My name is Frederick Raven,

1:23:14Assistant Director with Technology

1:23:15Solutions.

1:23:17>> Um I hope this will be quick. Um

1:23:20I DataWorks closed almost a year ago. Um

1:23:23and so, I know some of these are yearly,

1:23:26but not all of them. Some of them seem

1:23:28to be more regular data updates

1:23:30um and the community training. So, what

1:23:33Who has been doing that for

1:23:35Compass in the meantime?

1:23:37>> So, the last update from Compass would

1:23:39have been uh 2025, which would have been

1:23:42the uh the tax updates. I think that was

1:23:44the last one that was done. We received

1:23:48the confirmation of how the status of

1:23:51the agreement would look like if we're

1:23:53able to move forward with that

1:23:54partnership. I want to say around the

1:23:56end of the first quarter of this

1:23:58calendar year. So, that would have been

1:24:00around that March-April time frame. So,

1:24:02that's when we've begun negotiating the

1:24:04agreement uh and the terms so that UNC

1:24:07would be able to support the work that

1:24:10DataWorks was doing.

1:24:12>> So, was there something that was

1:24:13happening more regularly when DataWorks

1:24:15was in operation that we've sort of seen

1:24:18tail off or have we Is there really just

1:24:20this sort of once a year?

1:24:23>> They they had required data maintenance

1:24:25that would have been at least once a

1:24:27year, but they also

1:24:28um participated in in community

1:24:30engagement meetings, um skill-up

1:24:33learning, um and also data maintenance.

1:24:36So, and we the city has not been

1:24:38invoiced for any work during during that

1:24:40period of time, during that transition.

1:24:42So, I haven't seen where they've had

1:24:44provided us with any itemized billing of

1:24:46the work that's been done during that

1:24:47interim period.

1:24:48>> Okay. I just I think that what was

1:24:50interesting to me was that in the memo

1:24:52[clears throat] it talked about how

1:24:53important it was to have continuity in

1:24:54the cycle, and I understand obviously

1:24:56like having the actual data maintenance

1:24:58is probably the most important thing. Uh

1:25:00but it sounds like we have lost a bit of

1:25:02continuity in terms of the engagement

1:25:04and some other sort of community

1:25:06partnerships, but

1:25:07I assume then that UNC will be picking

1:25:09up

1:25:10sort of where that got left off.

1:25:13>> so thankfully UNC was was already a

1:25:16partner with DataWorks. So, when

1:25:18DataWorks saw that they would eventually

1:25:21um begin dissolving, they had actually

1:25:23initiated to make the recommendation to

1:25:25us to uh see if UNC could take over some

1:25:28of that work because they had been a

1:25:29partner. So, part of that transitioning

1:25:32um is in that continuity that we were

1:25:34looking for is because they're already

1:25:36familiar with the work that was already

1:25:37done.

1:25:38>> Okay. That makes sense. Thank you. Those

1:25:39are my questions.

1:25:42>> Councilmember?

1:25:42>> Thanks, Mr. Raven. So, just one question

1:25:44on that. I just have a tough time as I

1:25:45read through the contract. So, the

1:25:46contract's with UNC, but the work will

1:25:49be done by the This is the Center on

1:25:50Urban and Regional Studies at the

1:25:52Department of City and Regional

1:25:53Planning.

1:25:55>> So, the contract was with DataWorks and

1:25:57we need to consent to move that over to

1:26:00UNC. I think that's a kind of like

1:26:02agency that reports through

1:26:05UNC Chapel Hill.

1:26:06>> Right. So, yeah, the Center for Urban

1:26:07and Regional Studies is part of this

1:26:08It's a center at the planning school.

1:26:10>> Correct. Within UNC, correct.

1:26:12>> Right. Exactly. Yeah. So, that So,

1:26:13they'll do the work. That's

1:26:14>> That is correct.

1:26:15>> Even though the contract is with the

1:26:16university, but like CURS is going to do

1:26:18the work. I just want to cuz that

1:26:19they're well respected do good works,

1:26:21so.

1:26:21>> Yes, sir.

1:26:22>> Yeah, great. Thanks.

1:26:29>> Okay. All All good?

1:26:32All right. Next item, Council member

1:26:33Koback.

1:26:3519.

1:26:45>> Yes, thank you, Mr. Mayor, and thank

1:26:46you, Director Egan.

1:26:49I'd just appreciate if you could

1:26:52speak to

1:26:54what this agreement

1:26:56kind of offers us and what it commits us

1:26:59to

1:27:00into the future if we do want to enter

1:27:01into partnership with other

1:27:03municipalities in the region

1:27:05around this kind of fair collection

1:27:07system.

1:27:09>> Certainly. So,

1:27:11uh we made a an agreement as a region

1:27:14about 10 years ago that we wanted to

1:27:17simplify

1:27:18the experience of transit for transit

1:27:21customers uh across the Triangle region.

1:27:24So, we used to have Capital Area Transit

1:27:26in Raleigh and Data in Durham.

1:27:29And then C-Tran, I think was the Cary

1:27:32one.

1:27:33And uh they had different systems,

1:27:35different fare collection

1:27:37uh technologies, and it was very

1:27:40confusing and it was a barrier for

1:27:43uh people learning the system. And so,

1:27:45there was an agreement to go with to to

1:27:47do the Go branding, so Go Triangle, Go

1:27:49Durham, Go Cary, Go Raleigh, and then

1:27:52also to

1:27:53uh

1:27:54coordinate all of the fare

1:27:56structures, so that if you bought a a

1:27:58regional pass, for example, that pass

1:27:59would be honored on any

1:28:01trip across the system. So, this is

1:28:04really

1:28:05kind of an extension of that uh work,

1:28:08which is to say that uh the City of

1:28:12Raleigh and Go Triangle are coming up on

1:28:15the end of their current contract for

1:28:17fare collection equipment and

1:28:19technology. Uh so, they

1:28:22are going to be going out and starting a

1:28:25procurement led by the City of Raleigh.

1:28:28So, in order for the City of Durham to

1:28:32be able to make purchases of that

1:28:34equipment, that technology, at any point

1:28:37in the next 5 years, should council

1:28:39decide to return to fare collection.

1:28:42For our For our equipment to be

1:28:44compatible, our technology to be

1:28:46compatible, for it to be simple and easy

1:28:47to use for

1:28:49uh transit riders moving across the

1:28:51region, we have to make this agreement

1:28:54up front with the City of Raleigh. Uh at

1:28:56the same time,

1:28:58uh just our participation in a

1:29:00cooperative procurement, uh we're under

1:29:02no obligation to actually purchase

1:29:04anything. It just allows us to

1:29:07participate, it allows us to have the

1:29:09same technology and have that seamless

1:29:11integration across the region, and it

1:29:13also allows us to avail ourselves of a

1:29:16bulk pricing because uh we'd be

1:29:18purchasing a higher number of of

1:29:19equipment units, uh for example.

1:29:28>> All good? All right, thank you so much.

1:29:31>> I'm up for 20, I think, now.

1:29:32>> 21 and 22, Council member Baker.

1:29:36>> Yeah, [clears throat] thank you. Um

1:29:37>> 20

1:29:39>> Yeah, my my are water.

1:29:48>> Um thanks, Mr. Reagan. So, um

1:29:52I know this is a complicated one and

1:29:53there's money from the MPO. I know we

1:29:56can flex some funds. I don't really

1:29:57understand quite what that flexing

1:29:58means, but something around like moving

1:30:00funds around.

1:30:01But, I just just like on this issue of

1:30:02like buying diesel, I know we're going

1:30:04to buy five electric buses.

1:30:06>> Five diesel, three electric.

1:30:07>> Three electric, five diesel. So, on the

1:30:09issue of buying diesel buses, when I saw

1:30:11that pop up, I was like, and I know we

1:30:13we approved a couple years ago. I think

1:30:15maybe this CIP, right? Was this the same

1:30:18issue or was this a separate one?

1:30:19>> I mean, we Council approved a purchase

1:30:21contract for 10 diesel vehicles in April

1:30:24of this year.

1:30:25>> So, so just on the diesel issue. So,

1:30:28like obviously the diesel market like

1:30:30price of diesel's gone through the roof,

1:30:31right? So, like diesel's now becoming

1:30:34much more expensive, maybe a more

1:30:35volatile market going forward. So, as we

1:30:37think about buying buses that are going

1:30:39to last for 20 years,

1:30:41is it really wise to be buying buses

1:30:43that will operate use using diesel? Not

1:30:45only cuz of the market's become more

1:30:47volatile, but it could be like I don't

1:30:49want to in 5 years from now we say like,

1:30:50wait, we can't afford to run our diesel

1:30:51buses, they're too expensive. So,

1:30:53I want to make sure we're not getting

1:30:54into a a pickle here. Also recognizing

1:30:57that like at some point diesel can't go

1:30:59away like trucks and like a lot of the a

1:31:01lot of our supply network relies on

1:31:02diesel, school buses. So, demand will

1:31:05still be there. So,

1:31:07so does it make sense to buy diesel

1:31:09buses? I also know that Raleigh operates

1:31:12some of their buses on compressed

1:31:13natural gas. So, we have we have some

1:31:15electric buses, we don't have compressed

1:31:16natural gas. Have we considered

1:31:19compressed natural gas for our buses? Is

1:31:21Is that not a better option? I don't

1:31:23know, it's still like that's still

1:31:25fossil fuels, though I I think in the

1:31:26case of Raleigh, I think there is some

1:31:28renewable natural gas they're getting

1:31:30from a wastewater treatment plant. So,

1:31:32have we thought about those kind of

1:31:33tools to potentially reduce our costs

1:31:36long-term and our exposure to volatile

1:31:38markets as opposed to buying more diesel

1:31:40buses?

1:31:42>> So, uh I'll start with the fuel types.

1:31:44So, we have looked at uh compressed

1:31:47natural gas as a potential source.

1:31:49Um there is very significant

1:31:52uh fueling infrastructure and pipeline

1:31:55infrastructure needed in order to set up

1:31:59a fueling station for compressed natural

1:32:01gas. That process I worked on a project

1:32:05in Washington DC that took about 10

1:32:06years. And it was very very expensive to

1:32:11tunnel underground and have underground

1:32:13compressed natural gas infrastructure.

1:32:16So our

1:32:19our analysis is that due to the limited

1:32:22CNG availability

1:32:24in Durham, that's not a viable option

1:32:28for us. We have looked at the model that

1:32:31the city of Raleigh uses where they

1:32:32capture

1:32:34gases from wastewater treatment plants.

1:32:38My discussions with our water management

1:32:41department have been that uh

1:32:44there's a certain scale of operation

1:32:46that is needed in order to make recovery

1:32:50of the renewable natural gas

1:32:53cost-effective and that Durham's waste

1:32:55>> I think the local love right so we're

1:32:56not quite we're not big enough to do

1:32:57that.

1:32:59>> to

1:33:02>> [laughter]

1:33:02>> Don is

1:33:04Don is confirming in the background.

1:33:05We're yeah our facilities are not large

1:33:07enough to provide the the required

1:33:11scale.

1:33:12So there is so that that's not uh

1:33:16a viable path forward for us either.

1:33:18There certainly has been volatility in

1:33:21the diesel fuel markets

1:33:24but

1:33:25from our overall cost structure, that's

1:33:27largely offset by the the increased

1:33:29capital costs. So we're paying close to

1:33:32to double for a battery electric bus

1:33:35what we are paying for

1:33:37a diesel bus. So and in terms of life

1:33:41cycle, we're

1:33:44reviewing an analysis right now. We have

1:33:46had buses on the road for 20 years.

1:33:49Uh

1:33:50We that is not a best practice in the

1:33:53industry

1:33:54Uh, and our service where we're we're

1:33:57running the same schedule from 7:00 a.m.

1:33:59to 7:00 p.m.

1:34:00all day, every day. We don't operate,

1:34:02you know, a morning peak and an evening

1:34:04peak. We're running all day service.

1:34:06That puts a lot of miles and a lot of

1:34:08wear and tear on our vehicles. And what

1:34:10we've seen in our analysis is that we're

1:34:13seeing some major mechanical failures

1:34:17because of that heavy duty cycle

1:34:20after the 10-year mark. So, we're

1:34:24looking at updating our

1:34:27our fleet planning to retire buses at

1:34:31the 10-year mark rather than the um

1:34:36the industry standard is closer to 12,

1:34:38but most properties don't put as many

1:34:41miles or as many hard miles on the buses

1:34:44as we do. So, a diesel purchase today

1:34:47is a vehicle that's likely to be in our

1:34:50fleet for the next 10 to 12 years.

1:34:53But, the efforts that we are making to

1:34:56try to uh

1:34:58renew our fleet to bring down

1:35:01the average fleet age

1:35:04will mean that we won't be in a position

1:35:08our fleet planning does not have us in a

1:35:10position where we're holding on to buses

1:35:12for 15 or 20 years

1:35:13as has been the practice. That what

1:35:15we've learned from that practice is that

1:35:17those buses break down. They are very

1:35:19expensive to repair when they break

1:35:20down. And then after you repair them and

1:35:22spend a lot of money to repair them,

1:35:24they break down again. And so, we're

1:35:26trying to move away from that model

1:35:30and get into a regular cadence of

1:35:34purchasing vehicles and

1:35:37reducing the average age of our fleet

1:35:40and improving fleet reliability in the

1:35:42process.

1:35:44>> So, I appreciate that and I understand

1:35:45that some of the some of the you know,

1:35:47some of the as you described some of the

1:35:49compressed natural gas, like that market

1:35:50is changing dramatically as we speak,

1:35:52right? And so, and I know that I know

1:35:54that currently our wastewater treatment

1:35:55is is done somewhere. Like, I mean, cuz

1:35:57what Don and I have actually talked

1:35:58about this we might not support right

1:35:59now renewable natural gas, but there's

1:36:01also there's a market for that, right?

1:36:03And I've got an industry publication

1:36:04from Energy Vision talking about how

1:36:06like the economics of RNG have actually

1:36:08like increased dramatically. So, I just

1:36:10want to make sure that we're thinking

1:36:11about this stuff carefully for the

1:36:14future. We just had a conversation about

1:36:15the bonds where we're sort of like we

1:36:17didn't estimate properly. I'd hate to

1:36:18get in a situation 5 years from now

1:36:20where like, "Geez, we can't operate our

1:36:21buses cuz diesel is so expensive." So,

1:36:23so, you know, is there

1:36:26Can we Can I know you're so supportive

1:36:28>> we're working with a team right now to

1:36:30um review and revise our our fleet plan.

1:36:33Uh I can ask the team to um consider uh

1:36:36propulsion type or reconsider propulsion

1:36:38type as as part of that.

1:36:39>> That'd be helpful cuz yeah, and I don't

1:36:41know if we can I mean, you just said

1:36:41that we've, you know, we don't want to

1:36:43operate buses too long, but it can we

1:36:45possibly delay a couple years while we

1:36:47sort of figure out this complicated

1:36:49market of diesel. I mean, it's a you

1:36:50know, again, we don't want to be in a

1:36:52situation where we can't operate the

1:36:53buses cuz diesel we just can't get it.

1:36:55>> Yeah, I mean, the other side of that

1:36:56equation of not being able to operate

1:36:58the buses is what happens when there's a

1:37:00power outage.

1:37:01And our entire fleet is battery electric

1:37:05buses.

1:37:06>> Then all the more reason why maybe

1:37:07>> we can't operate right. We we can't

1:37:09operate service then. It would ground

1:37:11our entire fleet. So,

1:37:13we're you know, we want to make sure

1:37:16that there is some resiliency as well.

1:37:19We know the climate is changing. We're

1:37:21seeing more severe storms

1:37:23uh and so, we want to have a contingency

1:37:28in place as well for those times when

1:37:31the electric grid is down.

1:37:32>> Right. All the more reason why CNG

1:37:34potentially could be one option for us

1:37:35as well. Um and I know that Don wants to

1:37:37come up and speak to this one. I will

1:37:39also say that there are, you know, there

1:37:40are even if we don't have a like enough

1:37:43supply at our wastewater treatment to to

1:37:45fuel our buses, it also, I know right

1:37:49now, as I understand, we're still kind

1:37:50of flaring off that natural gas from the

1:37:53wastewater treatment plant. So, it'd be

1:37:54better to use that somehow than just

1:37:55kind of flare it off, right?

1:37:57>> Right. We're the DWM, Department of

1:37:59Water Management, we are actually

1:38:00finishing our bioenergy study that we've

1:38:03been working on the last 2 years. And

1:38:05you know, to better utilize as you

1:38:07mentioned the the biogas that we produce

1:38:10both using it at and we evaluated a

1:38:12number of different options.

1:38:14You know, compressed gas was is

1:38:16certainly one of them and what we've

1:38:18created as part of the report is a kind

1:38:20of a roadmap

1:38:21that if certain things happen, then we

1:38:24would then start utilizing that

1:38:25technology. Some of that is scale

1:38:28as we grow as a city and our wastewater

1:38:31flow increases and the production can

1:38:34ramp up then becomes more of a viable

1:38:36option. So, we have that on and it's an

1:38:39alternative and in our roadmap as we go

1:38:41forward. So, but at this time is you

1:38:45know

1:38:45I'm sure I mentioned earlier that it's

1:38:47not cost-effective now, but we are

1:38:49looking at how we can better utilize

1:38:50those where we are currently and expect

1:38:54to have a number of projects in the near

1:38:55future to just take advantage of that.

1:38:58>> I appreciate that. And as I understand

1:38:59there are also new there are new tax

1:39:01credits, right? For for renewable

1:39:03natural gas production. And I don't I

1:39:05know that we're obviously we're not a

1:39:07tax paying entity, but are there for are

1:39:09there direct pay credits for cities that

1:39:11are doing renewable natural gas

1:39:13production?

1:39:15>> Um that was

1:39:16Excuse me. That that was part of the

1:39:18study is actually looking at because at

1:39:20certainly at South Therm we have a

1:39:21there's a cross country gas transmission

1:39:24line. So, it would be easy for us to we

1:39:26looked at

1:39:28if we had leftover gas to

1:39:30bring it up to the standards and pump it

1:39:32into the pipeline right then and there

1:39:34and we had did have a

1:39:36conversations with Enbridge

1:39:38about that. So, once again, it's it's

1:39:40not there now

1:39:42because the requirements and their

1:39:44requirements, but we do have that on our

1:39:46roadmap that if as things in

1:39:49both the environment for that changes

1:39:52and technology changes that we would be

1:39:53able to take advantage of that.

1:39:56>> I appreciate that. Anytime we see like

1:39:57more diesel buses just not you know,

1:39:59both again cost but also environmentally

1:40:01this is not a great way to to uh burn

1:40:03fuel. So, you know, anything we can do

1:40:05to reduce our consumption of diesel in

1:40:07the city, especially cuz we got our own

1:40:09we've got our climate action plan that

1:40:10that commits our fleet. So, it's and I

1:40:12know we had to push back our achievement

1:40:14of our climate action plan because of

1:40:16this. So,

1:40:17anything we do to reduce our diesel

1:40:18consumption would be most much

1:40:20appreciated. Thank you.

1:40:23>> Councilmember, you may be the only other

1:40:25person I've met that's interested in

1:40:27this as just as much as I am.

1:40:29I I actually talk about well, you guys

1:40:31just had a very intelligent conversation

1:40:33about the power of our poop.

1:40:35Uh

1:40:36so, I talk about that a lot when I go to

1:40:37schools and how we produce renewable

1:40:40renewable energy.

1:40:41Um

1:40:43>> [clears throat]

1:40:43>> what are we using it for now? Uh

1:40:46the biogas.

1:40:47>> Um we're using it to generate the the

1:40:49blowers that when you go to our at

1:40:51wastewater reclamation facilities

1:40:53um in in our biological processes, it

1:40:56generates electricity for the blowers

1:40:59that pumps air into our aeration basins

1:41:01that helps provide the oxygen for the

1:41:03biological reactions that happen to

1:41:06reduce the the nutrients in the in the

1:41:08wastewater.

1:41:09>> Thank you. And uh

1:41:10>> So, we're not I don't we're not using

1:41:11all of that, right? We're sort of

1:41:12>> No, we we burn off some.

1:41:14>> Yeah. We burn off some and that's why we

1:41:15the main emphasis of the bioenergy study

1:41:18was how we could utilize it to a higher

1:41:20level.

1:41:26>> Is that what we owe now?

1:41:29Okay, I'll come back to it.

1:41:31Okay, and and Director, again, I I see

1:41:33where you're going with the balance.

1:41:35Um

1:41:36I you know,

1:41:38I don't know how long this is going to

1:41:39last, but

1:41:41I think diesel is like seven something

1:41:43dollars a gallon right now. Um I don't

1:41:45know how more volatile that's going to

1:41:47get, but I do understand that the buses

1:41:49cost half of what the electric ones

1:41:51cost. So,

1:41:53I I do want to continue to electrify our

1:41:54fleet, but at the same time I I get the

1:41:56rationale for having a balance there. Um

1:42:00are are we operating a beyond our means?

1:42:04Uh I mean, we have obviously we've made

1:42:07it very clear we want fair fares to be

1:42:09free.

1:42:10Um, and I understand that even if we

1:42:11charge it doesn't really make up for it.

1:42:14But, uh,

1:42:16in regards to the schedule, like are we

1:42:17being as creative as possible

1:42:20within the resources we have, or are we

1:42:22just

1:42:23plowing forward to make sure we have

1:42:25steady service all day?

1:42:27Um, I guess I'm trying to to

1:42:30assess

1:42:32uh, do like a threat assess assessment

1:42:34to

1:42:35our choices or policies that we've made.

1:42:37Uh, cuz we we aren't generating revenue

1:42:39for the buses. We are pushing the buses

1:42:41at a at a schedule that's,

1:42:43you know, we we're not peaking any

1:42:45hours. It's just all day. And what, um,

1:42:48>> [clears throat]

1:42:49>> how does that impact the actual life

1:42:51cycle of the buses? Do we need to make

1:42:53changes?

1:42:57>> So, uh,

1:42:59you know,

1:43:00the ridership that we have on our system

1:43:02does not take the sort of peaks and

1:43:05valleys

1:43:06uh,

1:43:07that you'd expect that you'd see in a

1:43:09typical kind of briefcase commuter uh,

1:43:12system where people are all going into

1:43:14the office at 9:00 in the morning and

1:43:15they're all leaving the office at 5:00

1:43:17in the afternoon. And so, you have

1:43:18services. The

1:43:20uh, the 20,000 people who are riding Go

1:43:22Durham Transit are riding consistently

1:43:25throughout the day. We see a build over

1:43:27the course of the day and into the

1:43:28afternoon, but we see nothing like the

1:43:32uh, the kind of traditional peak period.

1:43:34Um, so,

1:43:36were we and we see and you know, as the

1:43:39as as we move through the day, we see

1:43:41crowding increase

1:43:43uh, across

1:43:45our system. So, were we to adopt a more

1:43:49traditional transit kind of peak

1:43:52schedule, we would see some very

1:43:54significant midday crowding.

1:43:57Um, there also are a lot of operational

1:44:00inefficiencies. Uh, you have to pay

1:44:02someone to then

1:44:03bring that bus back to the yard and then

1:44:06in many cases sit or uh, take a break.

1:44:11So, there's a lot of what we call

1:44:13deadhead mileage associated with that

1:44:16and hours associated with

1:44:18making those midday changes. What we're

1:44:21seeing with our partners at GoTriangle,

1:44:22for example, is that they're going the

1:44:24other way. They're moving their service

1:44:26levels and their service provision to

1:44:28look more like ours has traditionally

1:44:30looked with more of that all-day

1:44:33service.

1:44:35So,

1:44:36I think that we

1:44:40we're we're thoughtful and we're mindful

1:44:42about that, but our first priority in

1:44:45designing transit services the needs of

1:44:47our customers. And so, what we're seeing

1:44:50there is

1:44:52that that all-day service is well

1:44:54utilized and it's it's needed.

1:44:57And so, what what we're trying to focus

1:44:59on is all right, given that we're going

1:45:01to be putting so many miles on these

1:45:03buses so quickly,

1:45:06is it reasonable to use a 15-year

1:45:09planning planned life for these buses or

1:45:12should we really be planning to retire

1:45:14them

1:45:15at 10 years?

1:45:16And

1:45:17the data that we're looking at show that

1:45:2110 years is more is going to be more

1:45:25cost-effective for us. We'll be able to

1:45:27provide more reliable, more

1:45:29cost-effective service.

1:45:32the

1:45:32>> Thank you.

1:45:35Just one more question on that. And

1:45:36again, I appreciate the the presentation

1:45:38and I appreciate the the the

1:45:40conversation recognizing that we we are

1:45:42so committed on this council to

1:45:44fair-free buses and having a like the

1:45:46the the state's best transit system. So,

1:45:47that all that is all true, right? As we

1:45:49think about it, how do we Yeah, exactly.

1:45:52As we think about it, how do we pay for

1:45:53and sort of power the buses? So, I

1:45:54wonder if your staff have done any kind

1:45:56of sensitivity analysis to to show like

1:45:59at what like at what price of diesel

1:46:02does it become more cost-effective to

1:46:04buy electric buses even though they're

1:46:06more expensive than to than to buy

1:46:08diesel as the operating costs go up and

1:46:10up. I mean, there's got to be some price

1:46:12point, right, where it at some point

1:46:13like if it's 15 a gallon, it's like more

1:46:15expensive to do that than it is to buy

1:46:17an electric bus. So, do you have any

1:46:19Have your staff done that analysis? So,

1:46:20we know like as prices go up, where are

1:46:22we sort of getting to like that

1:46:23inflection point?

1:46:25>> Uh I I haven't seen that analysis yet,

1:46:27but as I said, we're we're updating the

1:46:29fleet plan, and so

1:46:30um we can

1:46:32uh

1:46:32ask for that calculation to be included.

1:46:36>> Thank you.

1:46:38>> [cough and clears throat]

1:46:40>> I know the uh upcoming year's going to

1:46:42be really tough budget-wise. Um

1:46:45and I know just a few years ago we were

1:46:47really aggressive in electrifying our

1:46:49fleet.

1:46:50And now we're making some shifts. So, as

1:46:52soon as you can provide us some

1:46:53advisement

1:46:55uh so that we aren't

1:46:56caught at the last minute when it's time

1:46:58to do budget stuff.

1:46:59Um cuz we we're going to have to make

1:47:01decisions. We saw the deficit in

1:47:04in that fund this year, the transit

1:47:05fund.

1:47:06Continuing fare-free and also

1:47:09diesel versus is electric. We buy more

1:47:11electric, they cost more, and diesel

1:47:14costs less, but costs more to maintain.

1:47:16Mileage, all of that. We We Give us the

1:47:19As I said earlier,

1:47:20don't sugarcoat anything for us. This

1:47:22council is very competent. Give us the

1:47:24details so we can make the most informed

1:47:26decisions.

1:47:27Thank you.

1:47:29All right.

1:47:30Let me [clears throat] before you come,

1:47:31let me go back to item number 19. There

1:47:33was a speaker that I omitted.

1:47:38Um Ms. Peterson.

1:47:41I'm sorry that I over uh overlooked you.

1:47:45>> Number 19?

1:47:46>> Uh apologies. I'm I

1:47:50Yeah, apologies, Mr. Mayor. She wanted

1:47:52to speak on the crime report.

1:47:54>> Okay, so is number

1:47:56Okay.

1:47:59Okay, so is it

1:48:02>> Number 16.

1:48:02>> So, so really quickly,

1:48:04um

1:48:06the the the rows and columns they're not

1:48:08necessarily aligned with the I agenda

1:48:11number, correct? It just so happened

1:48:13this one falls on I like item 16 fell on

1:48:16line 16.

1:48:17>> Right.

1:48:18>> Okay, got it.

1:48:20I see.

1:48:22I'll I'll not pay attention to what line

1:48:24item it is and just look at the agenda

1:48:26number. So, but it does say item number

1:48:30>> It it says 19, but it's item 16. And I I

1:48:33actually signed helped sign her up and I

1:48:36believe I'm the one who put typed in 19.

1:48:38>> Okay, got it. All right. So, we don't

1:48:40have a speaker

1:48:42for 19.

1:48:43All right. So, now it's items 21 and 22.

1:48:46Council member Baker.

1:48:48>> Yeah.

1:48:50>> We want to get to you, Madam Chief.

1:48:53>> Thanks for Thanks for sticking around. I

1:48:55appreciate it. Um my question is uh

1:48:58these are big uh

1:48:59really big projects. Question about um

1:49:02just mitigation of construction impacts.

1:49:06Um can you just walk us through kind of

1:49:09if I'm a resident who lives on one of

1:49:11these streets or in the um

1:49:13general area, what am I going to see um

1:49:17when this gets underway?

1:49:21>> Robert Joiner, Department of Water

1:49:23Management. Um so, some of the things

1:49:25that you would see for standard

1:49:27construction contracts are

1:49:29um that we're putting notices out for

1:49:32the areas that we're in.

1:49:34Um we are talking to the contractors

1:49:37ahead of time

1:49:38uh to be sensitive to access and other

1:49:41things. Uh we're currently going through

1:49:43some of this on other projects uh that

1:49:45we have where we're having to kind of go

1:49:47back and forth across people's houses

1:49:49multiple times. And we're trying to

1:49:52provide uh additional responses to them

1:49:55and keep them abreast of everything. Uh

1:49:58in some cases, you know, there's been

1:50:00family emergencies and and we've had to

1:50:03actually stop work

1:50:04and work around some of those things for

1:50:07people to to leave their driveways while

1:50:09we're actually actively digging trenches

1:50:11in front of them and things of that

1:50:13nature.

1:50:14Um

1:50:16>> And then most of this is construction

1:50:18within the public right-of-way, so is a

1:50:21lot of this tearing up existing street

1:50:24pavement and then and then rebuilding.

1:50:26>> Correct.

1:50:27>> Okay. And then on on

1:50:29when we think about opportunities here,

1:50:32are we digging up parts of the curb as

1:50:35well? Kind of curb and gutter?

1:50:36>> Correct.

1:50:37>> Okay.

1:50:38>> And in this particular contract, we're

1:50:39actually sharing. And so we're we're

1:50:42going back and forth

1:50:43with water and sewer, but we're also

1:50:45working with storm water

1:50:47so that we can do all of this at one

1:50:49time so that we're not going back and

1:50:51forth and and hitting these areas

1:50:53multiple times in a row. It's very you

1:50:56know, disturbing to anybody who's

1:50:58involved in a construction site.

1:51:00>> Absolutely. And are we working closely

1:51:02with transportation to make sure that

1:51:05when we dig up a street, when we dig up

1:51:07curb and gutter, that this is a really

1:51:09unique opportunity.

1:51:12It's very expensive infrastructure

1:51:14changes

1:51:17at a glacial pace

1:51:19for

1:51:21improving

1:51:22that public right-of-way for pedestrians

1:51:24and bikes.

1:51:26Making sure there's traffic calming, all

1:51:27that stuff.

1:51:28>> We are talking to transportation and

1:51:30having ongoing conversations with them

1:51:31about looking at opportunities for

1:51:34striping.

1:51:35In some cases, you know, we used to do

1:51:38speed tables,

1:51:40but that will, you know, going forward,

1:51:41there's not a lot of those that'll be

1:51:43installed.

1:51:44There are other opportunities for those

1:51:47things to be restriped, making sure that

1:51:50we're Pro Act compliant.

1:51:52That is a standard part of our

1:51:54procedures now.

1:51:56>> Yeah, I just want to

1:51:57I want to emphasize two things. One is

1:52:00um

1:52:01just making sure that we are doing

1:52:02anything that we possibly can to

1:52:04mitigate the impacts on residents that

1:52:06live in the area, small businesses.

1:52:09I think that's really important in

1:52:11thinking through that in advance. I know

1:52:13that that's part of this work and you

1:52:14looking at the contract, I said it's

1:52:15engagement, all that.

1:52:17And then the second piece is making sure

1:52:19that we're taking advantage of this

1:52:21unique moment in time where

1:52:24infrastructure is being dug up and then

1:52:27being replaced and not just replacing it

1:52:30exactly as it was, but replacing it

1:52:32using Nacto guidelines, ITE guidelines,

1:52:36um best practices,

1:52:38um and ensuring that um we're we're

1:52:40taking advantage of this time. You know,

1:52:42I think we we spend a lot of money

1:52:44um putting in, you know, um

1:52:48uh different kinds of traffic calming uh

1:52:52infrastructure on streets that have not

1:52:54been just been dug up. Um how can we

1:52:57make sure that we're taking advantage of

1:52:58this moment um to improve the

1:53:01infrastructure um that's that's above

1:53:03the pipes that are being replaced, so.

1:53:05>> Understood.

1:53:05>> Okay. Thank you so much.

1:53:07>> Of course.

1:53:08Is this the same for 22?

1:53:10Okay. Thank you so much.

1:53:11>> Thank you.

1:53:13>> Uh colleagues, do we need to take a

1:53:14quick break before we get to the

1:53:15presentation?

1:53:16All right, we'll resume at 3:00 p.m.

1:53:21We're recessed.

1:53:22One presentation. Yep.

1:54:16>> Recording stopped.

1:56:28>> Mhm.

1:58:30>> Mhm.

2:00:33>> Hey.

2:01:26>> All right.

2:01:28Welcome to your inaugural report, Madam

2:01:30Chief.

2:01:31And welcome to the Bull City.

2:01:32>> Thank you. Thank you.

2:01:34>> Glad to have you.

2:01:35Looking forward to your report. Just

2:01:37know that um

2:01:40the media across the room when your

2:01:41report comes on board.

2:01:43So

2:01:44>> [laughter]

2:01:47>> Good to see you guys. Thanks for being

2:01:48here.

2:01:50Um all right. It's on you.

2:01:52>> Good afternoon, Mayor Pro Tem,

2:01:55City Council members. Uh I just like to

2:01:57take a quick moment to express my

2:02:00appreciation to city leadership, to the

2:02:03Durham community, and my Durham Police

2:02:05Department colleagues for the warm

2:02:07welcome,

2:02:08um the well wishes. I I really

2:02:09appreciate it. I feel right at home.

2:02:12Um

2:02:13and I want to recognize my my staff for

2:02:15getting this report uh prepared for

2:02:17today. Uh in this report, you'll see

2:02:20that we have made progress, but we have

2:02:22a long way to go with addressing crime

2:02:24in in the city. And so, I'm I'll get

2:02:26started.

2:02:41>> Do you need for me to pause or

2:02:44Speaker from the floor.

2:02:48That's fine.

2:02:53You sure? I'm I'm fine.

2:02:54>> You can go ahead. I'm Ms. Peterson, I'll

2:02:55call you after the presentation.

2:02:57>> Is that okay, Ms. Peterson?

2:02:58>> Yes.

2:02:58>> All right.

2:03:00We'll look at the part one crime

2:03:01offenses uh for the time period of

2:03:03January to June.

2:03:04Just like to highlight that the violent

2:03:06crime part one offenses include uh

2:03:09homicides, rapes, robberies, and

2:03:11aggravated assaults, which increased by

2:03:13about 5 and 1/2% this time this quarter

2:03:16uh since last quarter. Other than

2:03:18robberies, violent crime offenses are

2:03:21counted based on the number of victims,

2:03:23not the number of incidents.

2:03:27Now, although violent crime has

2:03:28increased from 2025, the three-year

2:03:32average declined by 36 total offenses.

2:03:37For homicides, we're down about 5% this

2:03:40quarter. We've had 18 reportable

2:03:42homicide offenses. 16 were criminal

2:03:46homicides, two involving domestic

2:03:48violence, and two of those were

2:03:50involving domestic violence incidents.

2:03:53We had two negligent uh manslaughter

2:03:55cases. One involved a firearm, and the

2:03:58other was a DWI.

2:04:00Currently, we're sitting at about 25

2:04:03homicides for the year, including 23

2:04:06criminal homicides. Four of those are

2:04:08domestic violence related, and two are

2:04:11negligent manslaughter cases.

2:04:15Our forcible rates rapes, you'll see we

2:04:17have about a 25% increase on that, and

2:04:20I'll provide just a little context of

2:04:21why we have such an influx in our

2:04:23reported rapes. Through this quarter,

2:04:25we've had about 96 forcible rape

2:04:27offenses. 22%

2:04:30of those cases of the 96 were reported

2:04:33offenses that occurred prior to this

2:04:35year. So, we've seen an influx in

2:04:38victims

2:04:39coming forward and naming their

2:04:41offenders from prior from prior years

2:04:44and that's that

2:04:45constitutes some of the influx in the

2:04:47reported rapes, the 25% increase.

2:04:5014% of the reported offenses involved

2:04:54intimate partners.

2:04:56And nine of the 18 cases cleared

2:04:59were from prior years. So, half of the

2:05:02of the rape cases that were investigated

2:05:05this year were of prior years.

2:05:08Now, historically, we know it's been a

2:05:10nationwide trend for as long as this

2:05:13crime has existed that victims are

2:05:15really hesitant about coming in and

2:05:17naming their offenders. So, the increase

2:05:20in the reports of these incidents, we're

2:05:23going to continue to

2:05:25um

2:05:25connect with community, provide the

2:05:27support that we need for the victims to

2:05:29encourage those victims to feel safe and

2:05:33empowered to come forward and and seek

2:05:35justice for those offenses.

2:05:40Of the 96 victims, 75 involved a known

2:05:45suspect, including four females.

2:05:48For the 21 suspects that were unknown,

2:05:50many cases involved victims that

2:05:52appeared to be experiencing cognitive

2:05:54impairment or mental health issues.

2:05:57But, insufficient evidence exists to

2:06:00unfound the cases, so those cases are

2:06:02still active at this time. And there

2:06:04were three stranger rapes reported in

2:06:06the second quarter. And so, those

2:06:08offenses, we don't have any suspect

2:06:10information, and so we don't we don't

2:06:12know who those perpetrators are.

2:06:15For the robbery offenses, we're down

2:06:17about 14%

2:06:19through the second quarter. There were

2:06:20177

2:06:22robbery offenses. 79%

2:06:25of those robberies were individual

2:06:27robbery of individuals, and that's down

2:06:29about 7% from this time last year.

2:06:33We've had 21% of robberies that were

2:06:35commercial robberies, and that's down

2:06:37about 33% from this time last year.

2:06:4089% of all the all the robberies that

2:06:42occurred in the second quarter

2:06:44uh were commercial robberies.

2:06:47And 53 of those robberies involved

2:06:49firearms. Now, in that 3% 53%

2:06:53five victims sustained gunshot wounds.

2:06:57And this is above slightly above the

2:06:59state average for robberies for this

2:07:01quarter.

2:07:03Aggravated assaults are up almost 12%

2:07:06for this quarter. So, we had a 509

2:07:09aggravated assault offenses

2:07:11uh stemming from 391 incidents.

2:07:1524% of the incidents were domestic

2:07:17related and that's a 2% increase from

2:07:20this time last year.

2:07:2276% of the incidents were non-domestic.

2:07:26And that's an 11% jump from this time

2:07:28last year. So, this is group

2:07:30disturbances, group violence.

2:07:3362% of all aggravated assaults involved

2:07:36firearms and of that percentage 67

2:07:40victims sustained gunshot wounds.

2:07:50Now, the chart displayed before you

2:07:51shows the raw number of violent crimes

2:07:53through the second quarter over the last

2:07:55decade.

2:07:57Homicides are indicated in blue.

2:08:00And we were at our lowest rate of

2:08:01homicides in 2020.

2:08:04There were 13 homicides in the first

2:08:06quarter and five in the second quarter.

2:08:09And of the 18 homicides, 13 involved

2:08:12firearms.

2:08:16Reported rapes are indicated in orange

2:08:18and they have been trending higher over

2:08:19the last few years, which is partially

2:08:22contributed to the agency's SAKI grant

2:08:26um

2:08:26over the last few years we've had

2:08:28funding to um process

2:08:31old rape kits that we did did not

2:08:33process before and those yielded

2:08:35additional suspect information and

2:08:37actual closing of cases and uh suspects

2:08:39being held accountable for those older

2:08:41rapes.

2:08:45Aggravated assaults are indicated in

2:08:47purple

2:08:49and they've been trending lower since

2:08:512020.

2:08:53While offenses are higher this year than

2:08:55last year, they are at least they are at

2:08:57at least 11% lower than each of the

2:08:59previous 5 years between 2020 and 2024.

2:09:04Intimate partner domestic violence

2:09:06incidents were slightly lower than

2:09:07normal

2:09:08sitting at right about 24%.

2:09:10Historically, it's been about 26%.

2:09:13And incidents with firearms were

2:09:15slightly above average. We're at about

2:09:1754% and historically we are at like 20

2:09:2052%.

2:09:26This next chart indicates the number of

2:09:28violent crimes over the last 14 fiscal

2:09:31years reflected as a rate of 100,000.

2:09:37The target

2:09:38is to have fewer than 700 crimes per

2:09:41100,000 population, which is indicated

2:09:44by the orange dash line. So, that is the

2:09:46goalpost for us to be below that line.

2:09:49The blue shaded area shows the range

2:09:51where the likely rate was expected to

2:09:53fall

2:09:54in uh in the fiscal year of 2026 based

2:09:57on our prior trends.

2:09:59We've had a significant decline over the

2:10:01last 5 years with the rate being at

2:10:03about 493

2:10:05crimes per 100,000 in fiscal year 2026.

2:10:09Again, the goalpost is 700 violent

2:10:12crimes per 100,000

2:10:15and we're sitting at 493 violent crimes

2:10:18per 100,000 for this fiscal year.

2:10:27For the months of January through June,

2:10:29we're going to kind of examine our

2:10:31shooting incidents.

2:10:33Of all violent crime through the second

2:10:35quarter a little over 33% involved guns

2:10:38being fired. Shooting incidents

2:10:41decreased about 2.6% in 2026 compared to

2:10:45this time last year,

2:10:47but the number of people shot increased

2:10:49by 14% and this includes fatal and

2:10:52non-fatal shootings.

2:10:55There were 484 total guns seized this

2:10:57quarter and that's a 14% increase and

2:11:01then it involved 359 incidents.

2:11:06There were 395

2:11:08cases through the second quarter in

2:11:09which firearm evidence was collected. Of

2:11:13this, 107

2:11:15produced NIBIN leads to at least one or

2:11:18two cases. And I just want to highlight

2:11:20that the acronym NIBIN stands for the

2:11:22National Integrated Ballistic Network

2:11:25and that's housed under the ATF and it's

2:11:27like the clearinghouse for all ballistic

2:11:29evidence

2:11:30and it connects shootings from across

2:11:32the nation. I would compare it to the

2:11:34national fingerprint database that we

2:11:36have and so that that's comparison to

2:11:38that.

2:11:40About 64% of all violent crime comes

2:11:43from aggravated assaults.

2:11:45The increase this year is almost

2:11:47entirely from non-domestic

2:11:50gun-related incidents. Non-domestic

2:11:53gun-related incidents, group-on-group

2:11:56disputes.

2:11:57And that um it just confirms and

2:12:00reassures the information that we've

2:12:01received from the Summit on Saving

2:12:03Lives. This is reflecting in this in

2:12:05these shootings in this quarter as well.

2:12:09Though total shooting incidents are down

2:12:11slightly through the second quarter, a

2:12:13greater proportion of incidents this

2:12:14year involved aggravated assaults rather

2:12:16than non-violent offenses such as damage

2:12:20to property and discharging of weapons

2:12:22in the city limits.

2:12:26There were there were also more

2:12:28non-fatal shooting reports. The number

2:12:31of victims per incident and the number

2:12:33of gunshot victims per incident are

2:12:35actually down slider than this time last

2:12:38year.

2:12:44This next illustration shows the

2:12:47cumulative gunshot wounds by week in

2:12:492026 was it which is indicated by the

2:12:51gray line and the previous five calendar

2:12:54years.

2:12:552025 had the fewest gunshot wounds.

2:12:59We had a reported 170 gunshot wound

2:13:01victims.

2:13:03We were at our highest in 2021

2:13:07at 277.

2:13:09The city is on pace for an average

2:13:11number of gunshot wound victims end of

2:13:14year compared to this time last year.

2:13:17Nearly 40% of the gunshot wounds in the

2:13:21first quarter occurred during the second

2:13:23period from late February to early

2:13:26March.

2:13:37When examining examining the property

2:13:39one crimes for for this quarter, I just

2:13:41want to remind you that property one

2:13:43crime

2:13:44part one property crimes involve

2:13:46burglaries, larcenies, and motor vehicle

2:13:48thefts is actually decreased a little

2:13:51over 4% this quarter compared to this

2:13:53time last year.

2:13:55Since year 2000, the fewest total

2:13:57property crimes reported was 9,115

2:14:00in 2022.

2:14:02Over the next 2 years, they increased by

2:14:0423%.

2:14:07They have normalized somewhat. A few

2:14:10consistent themes have continued this

2:14:12year.

2:14:14Larceny from motor vehicle incidents are

2:14:16producing far more victims.

2:14:19Youth and juveniles are more presented

2:14:22among identified suspects in these

2:14:24cases. Guns.

2:14:27Guns are often the target for those

2:14:29breaking and entering of vehicles by

2:14:31using the force of breaking just car

2:14:33windows.

2:14:35And attempts to steal motor vehicles are

2:14:37far more prevalent even though we have

2:14:40proactive measures to prevent it.

2:14:45Burglaries are down a little over 10%

2:14:49this quarter as compared to last

2:14:51quarter.

2:14:53We have about 503 offenses of

2:14:55burglaries. 54% of those burglaries were

2:14:58to residential locations, and that's

2:15:00down by 11% this time last year. 27 of

2:15:03those burglaries were to retail

2:15:05businesses. That's down about 2% this

2:15:07time last year.

2:15:09The number one target for burglaries

2:15:11right now for

2:15:13residential locations and retail

2:15:15businesses are power and hand tools.

2:15:20Larcenies are up by about a percent

2:15:23this quarter. We had 3,870 larceny

2:15:27offenses. 41% of those larcenies were

2:15:30from motor vehicles.

2:15:33And I point that out because

2:15:35we have

2:15:36firearms being stolen out of motor

2:15:38vehicles as well.

2:15:40It's up by 11%

2:15:42since this time last year.

2:15:4533% of those larcenies were related to

2:15:47shoplifting, and that's down by about

2:15:4910%.

2:15:53Motor vehicle thefts were down about 26%

2:15:56this quarter. We have about five We had

2:15:58about 577 motor vehicle thefts. 87%

2:16:03of the vehicles stolen, not including

2:16:05attempts

2:16:07or vehicles not registered, have been

2:16:09recovered. 87%

2:16:12of vehicles stolen in the city have been

2:16:14recovered.

2:16:16I want to highlight the amazing work of

2:16:18the field ops. It's the the officers

2:16:20that are first first on the scene.

2:16:23They're closing a lot of these cases,

2:16:24and I want to highlight the great work

2:16:25of the of of our officers.

2:16:2820% of the vehicles stolen were left

2:16:30running, unattended, or had keys left

2:16:33inside.

2:16:35And Hyundai,

2:16:36they are still the most frequently

2:16:38stolen vehicles. Coming second

2:16:41are Kias and then Hondas.

2:16:48This line chart illustrates the raw

2:16:50number of property crimes through the

2:16:51second quarter over the last decade.

2:16:55Burglaries are indicated in blue

2:16:57and they've been trending steadily down

2:17:01and they've been the lowest that we've

2:17:03had in a over a decade.

2:17:05Residential burglaries were slightly

2:17:07lower than average of the past 5 years.

2:17:12But retail businesses have been a little

2:17:14higher, about 6% higher.

2:17:17Larcenies are indicated in orange.

2:17:20They've been some somewhat variable for

2:17:22this period.

2:17:24We've had a slight decline over the last

2:17:262 years and after after 2 years of

2:17:28increase of the previous years. Three

2:17:30quarters of all larcenies are related to

2:17:32vehicles being broken into or

2:17:34shopliftings.

2:17:36Our motor vehicle thefts are indicated

2:17:38in the green line and it's increased

2:17:40significantly since 2022.

2:17:46Theft thefts are down 26% from last

2:17:49year, but they are still up 68%

2:17:53from 2022.

2:17:54Again, Kia and Hyundai brands continue

2:17:57to dominate the vehicles stolen, which

2:17:59is a regional and national trend and we

2:18:01saw a huge spike in this in Durham in

2:18:042023.

2:18:15This next chart indicates the number of

2:18:17property crimes over the last 14 fiscal

2:18:19years

2:18:21reflecting as a rate of per 100,000

2:18:24population. The target is to have fewer

2:18:26than 3,500 property crimes per 100,000

2:18:29residents,

2:18:31which is shown as the red dashed line.

2:18:33That's the goal post.

2:18:35The blue shaded area shows the range

2:18:37where they're likely where the likely

2:18:39rate would expect to fall in fiscal year

2:18:4226 based on our predictions.

2:18:46We have recorded about 3,333

2:18:49incidents, which is below target with a

2:18:5295% confidence interval.

2:18:55And that's just a range of calculated

2:18:56data that we're trying to predict what

2:18:58those numbers will be.

2:19:02This next chart shows a cumulative

2:19:05uh account for guns stolen by week in

2:19:082026, which is indicated by the green

2:19:10green line, the gray line, and the

2:19:13previous 5 calendar years. At year's

2:19:15end, previous totals were in a

2:19:17reasonable range between 415 and 444

2:19:21guns stolen, except for 2024, where we

2:19:24had 568

2:19:26guns stolen.

2:19:29Through the second quarter,

2:19:31the trend is tracking above all previous

2:19:33years. At mid-year, we were at 44% of

2:19:36the thefts that were in the first

2:19:38quarter and at 56% of guns stolen in the

2:19:41second quarter.

2:19:43All guns stolen through the second

2:19:45quarter constitute about 63%

2:19:48from motor vehicles.

2:19:51And this is higher than the rate that we

2:19:53had between 2019 and 2022, which is at

2:19:5652%.

2:19:5719 of the 170 guns have been recovered,

2:20:01so we're sitting at about 11% uh gun

2:20:04recovery rate. I would really love to

2:20:06see that number increase, but I would

2:20:08also like to um educate the public on

2:20:10how to secure weapons to prevent guns

2:20:13from being stolen in the first place.

2:20:22I'd like to highlight our clearance

2:20:23rates.

2:20:25And just to give you a little context, a

2:20:28clearance rate is calculated by dividing

2:20:30the number of of offenses cleared in

2:20:32that period by the number of offenses

2:20:34reported for the same period.

2:20:36It is not uncommon

2:20:38for an offense occurring in one period

2:20:40to be cleared in another, such as in a

2:20:42cold case homicides and sexual assaults.

2:20:46FBI clearance rates for 2024 are based

2:20:49on cities with populations of 250,000 to

2:20:51500,000.

2:20:54Our violent crime clearance rates for

2:20:56the second quarter consists of our

2:20:59homicide clearance rate being higher

2:21:01than the FBI national average and DPD's

2:21:03comparison periods.

2:21:06This was generated by clearing nearly

2:21:09all current cases plus three additional

2:21:13cases for 2024, 2025. And I'll repeat

2:21:17that.

2:21:19The clearance rates are higher than the

2:21:21FBI national average and DPD comparison.

2:21:24This was generated by clearing nearly

2:21:27all current cases plus three additional

2:21:30cold cases for 2024 and 2025.

2:21:34>> Chief Morris, can you say again the the

2:21:36the calculation for clearance rates?

2:21:37It's the percent that are

2:21:39have a have a charge filed or

2:21:41>> Yes, an active case versus what

2:21:43[clears throat] we've cleared. And and

2:21:45and that's

2:21:45>> means?

2:21:46>> Closed the case, made an arrest. Um you

2:21:49it can be exceptionally cleared by

2:21:50arrest or it can be cleared because

2:21:53um um there's no prosecution,

2:21:56prosecution declined, or if there are

2:21:58some circumstances outside of a law

2:22:00enforcement control, we'll exceptionally

2:22:03clear it and that counts towards our

2:22:04clearance rates or if the offender is

2:22:07deceased, then that case will be

2:22:09considered cleared as well.

2:22:10>> Thank you.

2:22:16>> The rape clearance rates was lower than

2:22:18the FBI national average and DPD

2:22:20comparison period. Victim cooperation is

2:22:23a critical factor in clearing rape

2:22:25offenses, which can be impacted by

2:22:28delayed reporting. Uh if you if you

2:22:30remember, I said 22% of our reported

2:22:33rape cases for this quarter were um

2:22:37reports of previous years that the

2:22:39offense had occurred. And so we're kind

2:22:41of fighting against the time um the time

2:22:44frame of when the offense occurred for

2:22:46the preservation of evidence and also um

2:22:49just victim cooperation. We know it's

2:22:51tough for victims to come forward and

2:22:54and

2:22:55and and actually name their accusers.

2:22:59The robbery clearance rate was higher

2:23:01than the FBI national average and DPD's

2:23:03comparison period.

2:23:05This is partially explained by repeated

2:23:07offenders. There were nine suspects

2:23:09listed in two or more robberies for this

2:23:11period, which comprised of 40 of the 76

2:23:15total identified suspects through this

2:23:17quarter. So, that's about 52% of our

2:23:19robberies are repeat offenders and so

2:23:22when we we we can historically we close

2:23:25a lot of cases if we can connect them to

2:23:28uh multiple offenses.

2:23:30The aggravated assault clearance rate

2:23:31was lower than the FBI national average,

2:23:33but higher than the DPD's comparison

2:23:35period. The rate is partially influenced

2:23:38by the proportion of domestic incidents

2:23:40which have a higher clearance rate. Um

2:23:4377 almost 78% because they're known

2:23:46offenders that we have a higher rate

2:23:48success rate

2:23:50of uh clearing those cases.

2:23:53Our property crime property clearance,

2:23:56we we're sitting about

2:23:59cuz I have 5 minutes, so let's see. The

2:24:01clearance rates for all three

2:24:02categories, burglary, larceny, and motor

2:24:04vehicle theft were higher than the FBI

2:24:06national average

2:24:08and we have a 91.2%

2:24:11clearance rate of violent crime cases

2:24:13um which were either cleared by arrest

2:24:15or other neighboring agencies.

2:24:1997% of property crime cases were cleared

2:24:22this um this quarter either by arrest or

2:24:26being exceptionally cleared.

2:24:28Our staffing.

2:24:30Our sworn staffing is at 79.5%

2:24:34at the end of

2:24:36uh as of June 2026.

2:24:39It is currently 82 and 1/2% staffed, 17

2:24:43and 1/2% vacancy. So, we currently have

2:24:45about four 438 positions filled out of

2:24:48531,

2:24:50including 93 recruits.

2:24:52Professional staff, we're at 91%

2:24:55filled. We have 126

2:24:58positions filled out of 139.

2:25:03Academy 63 began March 26 and currently

2:25:07has 30 recruits.

2:25:09Their classes is consisting of 26 males

2:25:11and four females with 11 of those

2:25:14recruits are being Durham residents.

2:25:18Academy 66 63 is scheduled to graduate

2:25:21on October 1st.

2:25:23>> [clears throat]

2:25:24>> Academy 64 is scheduled to begin in

2:25:26October 2026. Right now, we currently

2:25:29have 43 candidates hired for this class

2:25:32and counting. I want to highlight the

2:25:34amazing work that my recruiting team has

2:25:36done with just turning the page on

2:25:38getting qualified applicants in and

2:25:40being able to retain those individuals.

2:25:42They have done a phenomenal job.

2:25:51In the second quarter, we had 95

2:25:53applicants go through testing. 16.6%

2:25:56of sworn employees right now are female

2:25:59at the end of this quarter and we

2:26:00currently have 18% or 79 sworn

2:26:03employees.

2:26:05Through the second quarter, the

2:26:05recruiting team continued several

2:26:08marketing campaigns aimed at enhancing

2:26:10recruiting efforts including the Durham

2:26:12bus campaign, the DMV hub digital video

2:26:15advertising, equal opportunity

2:26:17employment journal digital and print

2:26:19advertising along with expanding social

2:26:21media outreach.

2:26:25Since the launch of this campaign, the

2:26:27page has gained more than 180 followers.

2:26:29It's top performing posts are us

2:26:32highlighting the academy and and all of

2:26:35the programs that we offer.

2:26:38Our featured video

2:26:40were of candidates of Academy 63. The

2:26:43post earned about 25,000 views and I'm

2:26:45going to just highlight that cuz they're

2:26:47proud of it. It 488 likes, 15 comments,

2:26:50and 43 shares.

2:26:55And this concludes the second quarter

2:26:57report.

2:26:58And I will open the floor for questions.

2:27:03>> Thank you so much, Madam Chief. This is

2:27:05uh great information.

2:27:08Colleagues.

2:27:11Oh, yeah. Um

2:27:12actually, let me address public comment

2:27:14first before bringing it back before the

2:27:15council. Ms. Peterson, you have 3

2:27:16minutes.

2:27:21>> [clears throat]

2:27:27>> Yes, I also would like to uh thank the

2:27:29uh

2:27:30police department and and the chief with

2:27:32the report. Um I have some concerns, and

2:27:35Mr. Mayor, I've had some of these

2:27:37concerns

2:27:39over the years. But, one of the things

2:27:40and I I mentioned this to Bill Bell, to

2:27:43Mayor Bell when he was mayor.

2:27:45We really need to get the part two crime

2:27:49reports also. They really need to be

2:27:52included as well as the juvenile. And

2:27:56for whatever reason, I I'm not sure why

2:27:58this city seems to not want to get the

2:28:03crime uh the part two crime reports.

2:28:06Because what that gives you the full

2:28:08picture

2:28:10of what is really happening in Durham in

2:28:12crime.

2:28:14One reason I I think the problem that we

2:28:16still do not have enough officers

2:28:20in this community to protect.

2:28:23And then when we allow persons to move

2:28:26in

2:28:28on city property and private property

2:28:31putting up tents, selling drugs,

2:28:35and guns, having prostitution going on

2:28:38also in our community.

2:28:41We need more officers. When you have all

2:28:45this movement going on downtown,

2:28:49and you see the crime we still have

2:28:51crime.

2:28:52Crime has not gone away in this

2:28:54community.

2:28:56It's here.

2:28:58I personally do not feel that we are

2:29:01really addressing it. Yes, we talk about

2:29:04it, and we bring good men on and good on

2:29:07to fight crime, but their hands are

2:29:10still tied to a certain concept to a

2:29:13certain extent. We don't have enough law

2:29:16enforcement.

2:29:17We still are not paying them a very good

2:29:19salary, Mr. Mayor.

2:29:22When you got to go around here carrying

2:29:24guns and

2:29:25>> [snorts]

2:29:25>> and and and and having to run after

2:29:28folks, also the juvenile crime in this

2:29:31community,

2:29:33uh Mr. Mayor,

2:29:34we need to get the report also on

2:29:37juvenile crime.

2:29:39We're not getting the report.

2:29:41They're mentioning it and and I'm I'm

2:29:43not blaming it on them. It's not their

2:29:45fault.

2:29:46They are giving us the federal the part

2:29:49one crimes

2:29:51is what the federal government is also

2:29:53keeping up with what is going on here in

2:29:55this city.

2:29:57But we also need the part two crimes.

2:30:00So, I I I I don't know if the if the

2:30:02police chief can come back later on but

2:30:05after cuz she's just getting here and I

2:30:07don't want to overwhelm her, but I I I

2:30:10would like to see the part two crimes.

2:30:13What are those numbers? I also would

2:30:15like to see the juvenile numbers. I also

2:30:18the city is broken up into districts.

2:30:21Let's see what's happening in some of

2:30:23the districts. Also, I would like to get

2:30:26a racial breakdown. Durham is a is a is

2:30:30a mountain park.

2:30:31>> Thank you. Mr. Peterson, when you say

2:30:32part two, you mean like quarter two or

2:30:35>> No, there's a such thing called a part

2:30:37two crime. It's a list of the other

2:30:39crimes that are being committed here in

2:30:42Durham that we're not getting that

2:30:45report.

2:30:46>> we'll get an inquiry on that. Thank you.

2:30:47>> Yes, but I

2:30:49I I would like for you folks

2:30:51>> Thank you.

2:30:51>> that list also.

2:30:52>> Thank you.

2:30:53>> And thank and I thank the police chief.

2:30:55>> All right.

2:30:56>> And maybe you can say a few words about

2:30:58the part two crimes, [laughter] please.

2:31:00>> All right. Thank you. Uh

2:31:05Uh and thank you, Madam Chief. Uh now

2:31:07we'll have questions from council or

2:31:10comments and I thank you for the report.

2:31:12Council member Cook.

2:31:14Miss Peterson.

2:31:16Miss Peterson.

2:31:19Council member Cook.

2:31:20>> Thank you. Um

2:31:22Welcome. Thank you for your first

2:31:23report. I have a few specific questions

2:31:26and then I have one that I generally

2:31:27like to ask always. Um the first one is

2:31:30going back to the

2:31:33violent crime.

2:31:35I thought that

2:31:37I thought that you said that the number

2:31:38of shootings and victims per incident

2:31:40are down from last year.

2:31:43But we have also seen an increase of

2:31:45person shot of 12 since last year. So

2:31:49I'm just I'm wondering

2:31:51were there that many more incidents or

2:31:53how does that how do those two

2:31:55statistics work together?

2:31:56>> The number of incidents are lower, but

2:31:59the number of people present at those

2:32:01incidents are higher. So it

2:32:05it it it's kind of competing, but so the

2:32:07the number of actual reported shootings

2:32:11are lower [clears throat] for the

2:32:11incident, but there are more people

2:32:13present because a lot of our aggravated

2:32:16assaults are more group disturbances and

2:32:19not just one-on-one conflicts. And so we

2:32:22can be one location

2:32:24>> Right.

2:32:24>> but more victims present.

2:32:28>> Okay. I thought you had said that the

2:32:29number of victims per incident were

2:32:31down, but it I think that I have

2:32:33misspoke. And I could have written it

2:32:34down incorrectly cuz it didn't make

2:32:36sense with the

2:32:37with the data. So the number of

2:32:40incidents are Wait, sorry. Do it again.

2:32:42Do it again for me.

2:32:43>> The number of incidents are like um

2:32:45>> Number of incidents are down.

2:32:47>> Yes. But

2:32:48>> there are more people involved.

2:32:50>> count the number of people. And so there

2:32:52are more people present during that one

2:32:54incident.

2:32:55>> And so we are seeing more victims per

2:32:57incident and also higher more shooting

2:33:00per incident.

2:33:01You had said

2:33:02>> It's counted as one incident, but

2:33:04multiple victims.

2:33:06>> Thank you.

2:33:06>> Yes, ma'am.

2:33:07>> I was I was typing too quickly, I think.

2:33:09>> And I may have misspoke.

2:33:10>> Um

2:33:12And then

2:33:13on the

2:33:14recruiting, I just thought this was

2:33:15interesting and the most recent class

2:33:18it was a almost a a 30-person

2:33:21recruited class and you said 11 of them

2:33:23were Durham residents. So, folks are

2:33:25driving in

2:33:27from surrounding areas to come in to

2:33:30work at DPD.

2:33:31>> Yes, ma'am. And we just uh we have a

2:33:3335-mi radius

2:33:35>> Okay.

2:33:35>> uh for the take-home car policy.

2:33:36>> my next question. Okay.

2:33:38>> Yes, ma'am. And so, we increased it as a

2:33:40recruiting tool and I think it it has

2:33:42been impactful.

2:33:42>> Okay. That was actually my very next

2:33:44question.

2:33:46Um

2:33:46230 35 mi?

2:33:48>> Yes.

2:33:50And they just briefed me on that, so I'm

2:33:51glad I could answer that one for you.

2:33:54>> [laughter]

2:33:55>> Um

2:33:57and so, I guess then the kind of

2:33:59counterpart is that those folks are not

2:34:00relocating to Durham. They are staying

2:34:03>> Yeah. If If they live If they live in

2:34:04the 35-mi radius, they they can take

2:34:07their car home. Um

2:34:09but, we do have

2:34:11individuals who live outside the city

2:34:13that just drive their personal cars to

2:34:15and from work.

2:34:16>> And then, I know that as we see quite

2:34:19often that the

2:34:21firearms are such a huge target in so

2:34:24many of our thefts and particularly in

2:34:25our motor motor vehicle break-ins. Um we

2:34:29had there was like quite a lot of

2:34:30community education ongoing about

2:34:32securing firearms and I was just hoping

2:34:34you could give us an update on sort of

2:34:36how that's going and if there's been any

2:34:38thoughts about

2:34:40more creative ways to get the info out

2:34:42there or or how we how we get those

2:34:44firearms secured.

2:34:45>> Absolutely. Just this morning, I met

2:34:47with my public affairs unit uh to

2:34:50examine what

2:34:52has been the historical communication to

2:34:54the public regarding

2:34:56um

2:34:57responsible gun ownership and securing

2:34:59weapons. And we are starting today,

2:35:03we are um looking at what we've had

2:35:05historically and we're we are going to

2:35:07bolster that communication and kind of

2:35:10bring it back to the top of our rotation

2:35:12with outreach, communicating um

2:35:14communicating and educating the

2:35:17the families, public, and I also would

2:35:20like for us to

2:35:22begin an initiative within the schools

2:35:24to talk about gun safety. I think it's

2:35:25important that we bring it back to the

2:35:27forefront. We have had devastating,

2:35:30unfortunate incidents over the last

2:35:32couple weeks that have just been

2:35:35um really

2:35:37heartbreaking. And I think it's it's

2:35:40incumbent on of us to be at the

2:35:42forefront of gun safety, responsible gun

2:35:45ownership, and how to secure weapons. We

2:35:47have the statistics that say that it's,

2:35:50you know, these young folks are getting

2:35:52guns by

2:35:53auto B&Es, and we need to

2:35:57um

2:35:59we need to educate the public and just

2:36:00reaffirm that it is their responsibility

2:36:02to secure the weapons

2:36:05to prevent incidents like this from

2:36:07happening in the future.

2:36:08>> Yeah, thank you. Um I appreciate

2:36:11your sort of targeting that. I think

2:36:13it's a really big piece of this.

2:36:16Um

2:36:18obviously we have we struggle, I think,

2:36:21a bit to track

2:36:22where a lot of our weapons are coming

2:36:24from. Um

2:36:25I think we probably have more work to do

2:36:27in that space as well, but I think that

2:36:30the securing piece

2:36:31so many of them are weapons that are

2:36:34legally owned.

2:36:35>> Right.

2:36:35>> Um just not secured. So, um I appreciate

2:36:38that, and and I also appreciate the

2:36:41moving into schools, which is my final

2:36:43question, and I um am wondering if you

2:36:45can talk a little bit about the juvenile

2:36:47statistics that we saw in this quarter.

2:36:51>> And and to Miss Patterson Peterson's

2:36:53point, um we are we have to be really

2:36:56intentional about how we share that

2:36:59information because it is sealed and

2:37:01it's protected. All juvenile information

2:37:03is sealed and protected. So, what we

2:37:05provide is just the overview, very

2:37:08generalized, just numbers

2:37:10of what the juvenile crimes are, but we

2:37:12definitely need to continue to foster

2:37:15relationships with the juvenile court

2:37:16system and um our local court system to

2:37:21it it it's a conversation that we just

2:37:23we need to have and it comes with

2:37:25education, it comes with support, it

2:37:26comes with prevention, all of the all of

2:37:29the intentional and thoughtful aspects

2:37:31that we need to explore to

2:37:33um

2:37:35focus on violent crime involving

2:37:37juveniles. I know that the violent

2:37:38violence reduction plan, it has a

2:37:40component of that and I'm looking

2:37:42forward to phase two of us

2:37:44operationalizing some of the concepts

2:37:47and the support and the programs that we

2:37:48have with our partners to see us move

2:37:51the needle on that, to educate young

2:37:53folks to be in the at the forefront of

2:37:57you know, educating their peers as well.

2:37:59And so I know that we have a unique

2:38:01opportunity with as a result of the

2:38:03violence reduction summit on saving

2:38:05lives and I'm looking forward to

2:38:07partnering and being

2:38:09helping to lead that charge.

2:38:12>> Um yeah, and I appreciate that. Um we

2:38:14have in the actual report numbers of

2:38:18juvenile offenses, but in the past we've

2:38:21kind of talked about how those have

2:38:22shifted over time and I'm I might be

2:38:24just missing it in the report, but I was

2:38:26wondering if

2:38:27and you might not know this off the top

2:38:28of your head,

2:38:29but just like what that looked like in

2:38:31this

2:38:33in this quarter as compared to prior

2:38:35quarters in terms of juvenile offenses.

2:38:38And I'd be also interested in victims

2:38:40and if you don't have that in front of

2:38:41you, I I think supplemental item would

2:38:43be great on that.

2:38:45>> But I would like to point that's not

2:38:46reflected in this report since I've been

2:38:48here for just a couple weeks. I have

2:38:50seen just layman's eyes or

2:38:52>> Yeah.

2:38:52>> however you want to categorize it, it's

2:38:53just the B&E of autos

2:38:55>> Mhm.

2:38:56>> targeting the weapons, our juvenile

2:38:58lead.

2:38:59>> I see.

2:38:59>> And that is something that is extremely

2:39:01alarming.

2:39:02>> Yeah.

2:39:03Thank you. Those are my questions.

2:39:04Thanks so much.

2:39:09>> Thanks, Ms. Mayor.

2:39:10Um

2:39:11thanks, Ms. Chief Martin. Thanks for

2:39:12being here. It was It was a pleasure to

2:39:14be at your swearing in ceremony. That

2:39:15was such an honor. I'm glad to have you

2:39:17in front of us today, so it's good to

2:39:18see you.

2:39:19Um a couple questions. On this juvenile

2:39:21um, report that Council Member Cook

2:39:22mentioned, um,

2:39:24I did have some more questions there.

2:39:25Actually, may I start with just saying

2:39:27of the of the percent What percentage of

2:39:29homicides and aggravated assaults

2:39:31involve juveniles?

2:39:32Do you have that number?

2:39:35I think if I cross-reference to the to

2:39:37the table in the report, it's only a

2:39:39couple looks like homicide one, so it's

2:39:42>> It involved in homicides, very few.

2:39:45Um,

2:39:46aggravated assaults may be a different

2:39:48conversation, but we are looking at the

2:39:51the the ages for suspect

2:39:54in homicides are north of 25 years old.

2:39:59And so, we're we're talking about young

2:40:00adults,

2:40:01>> [clears throat]

2:40:01>> 18 to 30.

2:40:04>> But more juveniles involved in

2:40:04aggravated assault, that's what from my

2:40:06when I I follow Captain Packard's watch

2:40:08reports and it seems like there are

2:40:09increasing number, which is always a a

2:40:11great concern for Council, you as well,

2:40:13I'm sure your staff.

2:40:14Um,

2:40:15I had a question about again on the

2:40:17table juvenile offenses. I noticed that,

2:40:19um, a large number of those were

2:40:21reported as all other offenses. I I know

2:40:23that as you mentioned weapons offenses,

2:40:25larcenies are large for juveniles, but

2:40:27there's also this category of all other

2:40:29offenses. What is in there?

2:40:32>> That's a great question, sir.

2:40:33>> I'd love to know because it I think it's

2:40:34the largest number of the juvenile

2:40:36offenses in the table were all other

2:40:38offenses.

2:40:41>> What are the other offenses?

2:40:48>> Colleagues, I will say that the uh,

2:40:50Community Safety Department has a lot of

2:40:52this data as well. Um, the line of

2:40:54questioning that's happening right now.

2:40:56>> Yeah, it's uh, and um, Director Smith is

2:40:59giving that update from the uh, we just

2:41:02had it [clears throat] actually from the

2:41:04I don't know if it's the Vera Institute

2:41:05or one of them, but it's Durham specific

2:41:07data and it talks about the the age

2:41:09demographics.

2:41:11Um, 17 and [clears throat] under in

2:41:13regards to homicides, 11.4%

2:41:15victims, 17.3% suspects.

2:41:18But instead of me just reading this off,

2:41:20I would like them to get that to us.

2:41:23No, that's specific to Durham over the

2:41:25last

2:41:26uh

2:41:27fiscal year, I believe. But, let let's

2:41:30just request that from Director Smith as

2:41:32a supplemental item. Just so you know.

2:41:34>> parsed it out. Yes, when we parsed it

2:41:35out with the juvenile it it's not

2:41:37included in this um in my notes.

2:41:42>> It's not in the presentation. It's

2:41:43There's a juvenile table for offenses in

2:41:45the report.

2:41:45>> In the report. That's what I'm hearing.

2:41:47Yeah.

2:41:47>> Okay.

2:41:48>> And if you could again if you could

2:41:49clarify what's under all other offenses

2:41:51there in that table, that'd be helpful.

2:41:52>> Yes.

2:41:53>> Um another question. So, um on that

2:41:56table that showed the um

2:41:58the uh

2:41:59violent and property crime rates, and

2:42:01there was that target that dashed orange

2:42:03line. How do we get that target number?

2:42:05Is that a How do we arrive at that?

2:42:08>> Is that the the confidence Do we Do they

2:42:11do it there?

2:42:11>> It's not the confidence. It's the uh

2:42:12>> the the confidence state. It's like

2:42:14sample it's they use sample data for

2:42:16prediction.

2:42:16>> It's the um

2:42:18No, it's the one um

2:42:20>> Is that the national average?

2:42:27Crime analysis comes up with that

2:42:29number. In In my professional opinion, I

2:42:31would hope it would be from the national

2:42:32average with the um

2:42:34by population.

2:42:35>> So, for pure cities or

2:42:37>> Yes, but the when I referenced the

2:42:39250,000 population

2:42:42I would hope that it would be that uh

2:42:44prediction for the for a a city

2:42:46comparable our size, but I would have to

2:42:49>> If you can confirm that, that'd be good.

2:42:50>> I will. He's making a note.

2:42:51>> I want to make sure it's kind of like

2:42:52that sort of up-to-date current for

2:42:54Durham.

2:42:54>> Right.

2:42:54>> That'd be great. And then um the last

2:42:56thing is I know we we we look a lot and

2:42:58we talk a lot about the staffing levels.

2:43:00Um and it's great to see that in the uh

2:43:02most recent basic law enforcement

2:43:03training that the big jump in

2:43:04candidates.

2:43:05>> Yes.

2:43:05>> Um I know that we and you may know a

2:43:08couple years ago we made a big effort to

2:43:09make sure our salaries were at market.

2:43:11>> Yes.

2:43:11>> And so, would it be great and and we we

2:43:13follow these these um the staffing

2:43:15levels on every every quarterly report.

2:43:17It'd be helpful to have just over the

2:43:19last 2 3 years what the staffing levels

2:43:21have been like historically to to sort

2:43:23of see any trends there.

2:43:24>> Right.

2:43:25And we can make note of that to have

2:43:27that to you. I know when I first came in

2:43:29I really I was really interested to see

2:43:32what

2:43:33was the turning point for us because

2:43:35there's just a been a astronomical jump

2:43:37in the success rate of us getting people

2:43:39in and retaining them and they have

2:43:42really um

2:43:43just analyzed best practices and and it

2:43:47has been it's paying off dividends and

2:43:49so I

2:43:51I'll be interested to to see that chart

2:43:53>> myself.

2:43:53>> see the data and see how that how our

2:43:54how our efforts increase pay does

2:43:56directly correlate.

2:43:57>> Yes.

2:43:58>> The last thing I know you mentioned in

2:43:59the recruiting issues a lot of great

2:44:00things there including with the

2:44:02events of the Durham Bulls. I just

2:44:04wonder if you'd comment on the fact that

2:44:05at the there was a tug-of-war between

2:44:07the fire department, the police

2:44:08department at the recent game I

2:44:10attended. The fire department won.

2:44:11>> I have no knowledge of that, sir.

2:44:13>> [laughter]

2:44:14>> I'm sure you haven't heard it all,

2:44:15right?

2:44:15>> Yes.

2:44:17>> Thank you. Appreciate

2:44:19>> Thank you.

2:44:22>> Any other comments?

2:44:27Welcome, Chief. Thank you so much.

2:44:28Congratulations. Um we're happy to have

2:44:30you. Um can you just speak to a little

2:44:33bit more to what is behind that 100%

2:44:36clearance rate

2:44:38kind of numerator and denominator

2:44:40are we talking about here and then um

2:44:43what would go into such a

2:44:48I mean perfect clearance rate?

2:44:49>> It is

2:44:51and I can speak from a point of first

2:44:54um

2:44:55hand experience cuz I have been out to

2:44:57the last few homicides that we've had in

2:44:59the city and

2:45:02the men and women that respond to those

2:45:04scenes it they are so well trained I saw

2:45:07it in real time and it was absolutely

2:45:09amazing to watch. They have the

2:45:10equipment that they need, they have the

2:45:12training that they need and they spring

2:45:15into action and it is it is seamless and

2:45:18they um

2:45:20so much to the point where they are

2:45:21capitalizing on the quick response and

2:45:24following the quick leads. So every case

2:45:26that's assigned to a So, if we have 25

2:45:29homicides this year, all 25 have been

2:45:32cleared uh either by any of the the

2:45:35categories that I told you. And so, that

2:45:36is the metric. And not only have they

2:45:38cleared the cases that we've had for

2:45:41this year, they've cleared cold cases as

2:45:44well. And so, we um capitalize off of

2:45:46the trained uh retired officers,

2:45:49detectives that we've had who have done

2:45:51amazing work in the field. We bring them

2:45:53back on a part-time basis. And they get

2:45:56they start coming through the cold

2:45:57cases. And it is um we have

2:46:01uh

2:46:03Clearing a cold case is a different type

2:46:05of um

2:46:07fulfillment because you have families

2:46:09who have gone decades maybe without an

2:46:12answer. And to have a resolve a reserve

2:46:14officer come back and have the time and

2:46:17the ability to just solely focus on

2:46:19those cases and be able to bring that

2:46:21resolution or that justice to the family

2:46:24is something that money can't buy. And

2:46:26so, I I'll just really give kudos to DPD

2:46:29for having such a phenomenally trained

2:46:32staff uh when they go and assign these

2:46:35cases that they spring into action and

2:46:36and we are

2:46:38we we have talented people within our

2:46:40agency and they are relentless in

2:46:43following those leads. And And that is

2:46:44100% just good old police work.

2:46:46>> Yeah. Well, congratulations on that. Um

2:46:49Yeah, that's um

2:46:51important.

2:46:53Um Can you talk a little bit about the

2:46:55kinds of guns that that we're seeing and

2:46:57how that if there are trends there, if

2:47:00that's evolving. Um You talked about

2:47:02fewer incidents, more people being shot

2:47:06lethally and non-lethally. Is that

2:47:09somewhat due to the kinds of weapons

2:47:11that are that are um out there? Um Are

2:47:14do those correlate with the kinds of

2:47:17weapons that are being seized? Um Can

2:47:19you just speak a little bit to that?

2:47:20>> Absolutely. Everything that you just

2:47:22said, the the sheer number of firearms

2:47:24that we have,

2:47:26how the firearms are modified um by

2:47:29either

2:47:31printing or access on on the internet to

2:47:34fully automated weapons, automatic

2:47:37weapons, it is it is increases the level

2:47:40of harm and it is just indis- people are

2:47:43just indiscriminately using these

2:47:46automatic weapons to

2:47:49to to cause the most harm and so it's

2:47:51not just the the type of weapon because

2:47:54most of them are modified.

2:47:56Uh they're semi-automatic usually

2:47:58handguns but the modifications are what

2:48:00what just amplifies the the level of

2:48:02harm exponentially and um

2:48:06and it's mostly guns that are stolen.

2:48:08>> Are those modifications are those

2:48:10being done through legal means or are

2:48:13those those are illegal illegal?

2:48:15>> Illegal means that are readily

2:48:17accessible to anyone

2:48:21that has internet service.

2:48:23>> Through like 3D printing?

2:48:25>> Yes.

2:48:26>> [clears throat]

2:48:27>> Is there any way of cracking down on

2:48:28that kind of thing?

2:48:29>> Ooh.

2:48:33Yeah, it

2:48:35I think that um

2:48:39it has to be a collaborative effort on

2:48:41the front end with responsible gun

2:48:43ownership to prevent these guns from

2:48:45hitting the street and on the back end

2:48:48with um

2:48:50holding the those priority offenders or

2:48:52those repeat offenders accountable.

2:48:54Um there's only a small percentage of

2:48:55people who are creating the most harm.

2:48:57So if we can identify those people on

2:48:59which some of them are saving lives, we

2:49:01we have a plan in place and if we

2:49:04provide intentional

2:49:07um evidence-informed practices, we can

2:49:11I'm I'm a hopeless optimistic. I think

2:49:13that we have the ability to um

2:49:17to save a lot of lives by just being

2:49:19strategic, intentional, um laser-focused

2:49:22on the ones who are doing the most harm,

2:49:25providing services if

2:49:27they are are applicable but if not, we

2:49:30have to hold those

2:49:32those folks who are causing the most

2:49:34harm in our community accountable.

2:49:36>> I'm just two more questions coming back

2:49:39to something Council member Cook

2:49:41raised. I do think what whatever

2:49:44there whatever collaboration is

2:49:45necessary including across other city

2:49:48departments when it comes to education

2:49:50around securing

2:49:53weapons that people own or have. I mean

2:49:56so many I know so many people who just

2:49:58leave their cars unlocked because

2:50:01they're tired of fixing the broken

2:50:02windows because most of the time people

2:50:05break the window, go through the glove

2:50:07compartment, and then go away.

2:50:09Don't even take anything. They're just

2:50:10looking for weapons. So

2:50:12if there other ways of capturing

2:50:14people's attention through other means

2:50:17in collaboration with other city

2:50:18departments, I'd encourage that.

2:50:19>> And if I can interject really quickly

2:50:21in our investigative investigative unit,

2:50:24we already have I have my some of my

2:50:25senior command

2:50:27reaching out to neighboring

2:50:28jurisdictions because the crime the the

2:50:30B&E autos with the stolen guns that

2:50:32happen in this zip code, they're

2:50:34happening right across the street. And

2:50:36so we have

2:50:37they have been actively collaborating to

2:50:41form a regional task force because the

2:50:43players in this jurisdiction are the

2:50:45same ones in the other ones. And

2:50:46hopefully that will make an impact as

2:50:48well. And we're going to

2:50:50partner with some of our local and state

2:50:52peers and and and see if we can

2:50:56attack it that way as well.

2:50:58>> Thank you. And then um

2:50:59lastly, so you're coming to us from very

2:51:02similar

2:51:03pretty close by peer city. I'm I'm just

2:51:06curious

2:51:07this probably not the the location where

2:51:09we're going to get the the most honesty

2:51:12from

2:51:13from you, but

2:51:14first impressions in terms of

2:51:18what you

2:51:19um

2:51:21my wife just started at

2:51:23teaching at a Durham public school and

2:51:24she's came from Wake County. She's got

2:51:25all sorts of oh wow, this is way so much

2:51:28better and this is is something where

2:51:31DPS could do a lot better.

2:51:32Um

2:51:34what are your I'm I'm curious if you're

2:51:36willing to share any first impressions

2:51:37in terms of what you think Durham is

2:51:40excelling at and then regarding DPD and

2:51:44then also if there anything anything

2:51:47sticking out that you see again first

2:51:49impression as this is an area that we

2:51:51really need to focus on maybe something

2:51:53that we were doing well where I was

2:51:55working before or something that I that

2:51:57I know could work better here.

2:51:58>> It's only one right after.

2:52:00>> You're trying to get me in trouble here

2:52:01huh?

2:52:02>> What are the answers

2:52:03>> And I

2:52:04know know what what I can say is that I

2:52:06really I was like what what took me so

2:52:07long to come to Durham now seriously

2:52:08because the equipment [clears throat]

2:52:12the facilities

2:52:14um

2:52:16Durham DPD is really a really

2:52:18progressive agency more progressive than

2:52:21you think and I can say that because I'm

2:52:23new here and I have other agencies to

2:52:26compare it to but as far as the training

2:52:30the

2:52:31equipment

2:52:33the facilities the partnerships

2:52:36I came in and the city of Durham was

2:52:39already collaborative collaboratively

2:52:41working on a

2:52:43violence reduction strategy you know so

2:52:45I didn't have to come in and start from

2:52:47ground zero and that's a plus for me you

2:52:50know I'm I see the great work that's

2:52:53that has been going on in the city and

2:52:55I'm excited to be a part of it because

2:52:56it's progressive it's moving forward

2:52:58we're not only just talking about things

2:53:01we're starting to operationalize

2:53:04this notion that public safety is

2:53:07everyone's responsibility it doesn't

2:53:09just rest on the shoulders of law

2:53:10enforcement and believe it or not in

2:53:12some other jurisdictions other

2:53:14neighboring cities that

2:53:16they hadn't even gotten off the bus to

2:53:18even start having that conversation so

2:53:21I'm excited because I have a lot of

2:53:23energy

2:53:24I love people I'm energetic and I'm

2:53:26coming to a space that complements that

2:53:30work ethic and so yes I do believe that

2:53:33Durham is where I'm supposed to be I am

2:53:36I'm to be here because there's

2:53:38we have things mechanisms put in place

2:53:41for us to actual to make actual change

2:53:44and I'm excited about that. Um I would

2:53:47love for our academies to continue to be

2:53:50full to capacity for the next 18 months

2:53:54and and we will really be able to see

2:53:55the impact of how we can build this

2:53:57agency back to have um

2:54:01to have the option of proactive patrol

2:54:05and specializing units to connect with

2:54:07community. Instead of officers running

2:54:09from call to call, they actually have

2:54:11time to stop, breathe, go into a corner

2:54:13store, chit-chat with the owner, and and

2:54:16really build that sense of community

2:54:18back. We are just um on a hamster wheel

2:54:20right now with the vacancy rate, but I

2:54:23am truly optimistic uh that this agency

2:54:26will get to a point where we're not

2:54:28surviving, we're thriving. With with all

2:54:31of the um promises that we've made to

2:54:33the community, meeting those

2:54:35expectations and exceeding those

2:54:36expectations. So, I'm excited about

2:54:38being in Durham.

2:54:40>> Great. Well, thank you so much. Um thank

2:54:42you for um

2:54:44speaking to us today and congratulations

2:54:46on joining us and welcome. And uh thank

2:54:49you to all of the sworn and unsworn

2:54:52non-sworn officers uh in uh Durham

2:54:55Police Department.

2:54:55>> Thank you so much.

2:54:58>> Yeah, thank you, Mr. Mayor. Welcome,

2:54:59Chief Cerda, to you and your team.

2:55:02Thanks for putting this report together

2:55:03and presenting to us today. Just a few

2:55:05quick questions um um kind of building

2:55:08on some of what my colleagues have asked

2:55:10about, but

2:55:11first of all, going back to some of the

2:55:13the statistics around rapes, you

2:55:15mentioned that

2:55:17um you know, a significant percentage

2:55:19are ones that have been brought forth

2:55:22from prior years.

2:55:24How does that percentage compare to

2:55:28say 2025 from prior years? Um you know,

2:55:31is is the total percent of the

2:55:34um you know, of the reports coming

2:55:36forward in this year, is that like

2:55:38increased based on what's coming from a

2:55:39prior year?

2:55:40>> Yes. And a lot of that is um old rape

2:55:43cases that we've been able to process

2:55:47rape kits that, you know, Governor

2:55:49Stein, he he gave a charge a few years

2:55:52ago to have all agencies to go back in

2:55:55and cuz we it was just the this

2:55:58the workflow was just inefficient and

2:55:59ineffective. And so it really gave

2:56:01jurisdictions or agencies the ability

2:56:03the ability to have just be laser

2:56:05laser-focused on going back and

2:56:07processing all the rape kits that were

2:56:10just sitting in storage and not

2:56:11processed. And when you do that,

2:56:15it creates leads. And it and it

2:56:17generates solvability factors that we

2:56:20didn't have before. And so that would be

2:56:22an increase and and

2:56:24it was so publicized that a lot of the

2:56:26rape victims from years past

2:56:29felt empowered enough to come forward.

2:56:31>> So there's a connection between

2:56:34the efforts to be more efficient and

2:56:36deal with those past rape kits and

2:56:38people coming forward to share their

2:56:41experience.

2:56:42Okay.

2:56:43>> And I think as a law enforcement

2:56:45profession, we have done a better job of

2:56:48that thoughtful

2:56:49response

2:56:51to sexual assault because it's a really

2:56:53sensitive topic. And we haven't always

2:56:56met the mark when doing that. And so we

2:56:59have like the Family Justice Center. We

2:57:01have wrap-around services for sexual

2:57:04assault victims that we didn't have

2:57:05before. A one-stop shop that makes it

2:57:09easier for victims to come forward and

2:57:11not be bounced around from agency to

2:57:13agency to get the help that they need.

2:57:16So I think all of those things have

2:57:18culminated into an increase in reported

2:57:21rapes and sexual assaults. But I think

2:57:24that we are being more thoughtful about

2:57:25how we investigate those crimes. And in

2:57:28holding those offenders accountable.

2:57:30>> Okay.

2:57:31Thank you. Really glad to hear that that

2:57:33progress and that these agencies and

2:57:35systems are working together and people

2:57:36are able to come forward.

2:57:39In terms of the statistic around the 87%

2:57:42of vehicles stolen being recovered. You

2:57:44mentioned

2:57:45you know, a couple of ways that they are

2:57:46recovered. But, what would you attribute

2:57:49this rate to? And I'm assuming the way

2:57:51you shared it that it's higher than what

2:57:52we've seen in prior years in terms of

2:57:55recovery.

2:57:56>> I don't know what the historical context

2:57:59is for

2:58:00I would imagine it would be our field

2:58:02operations that

2:58:03would bear the um responsibility for

2:58:05most of those recovered vehicles. I am

2:58:08unsure what if they had an initiative or

2:58:10a special assignment that focused

2:58:12specifically on that. So, I don't know

2:58:14what the um

2:58:16who to give the credit to. But, we can

2:58:19find out and I can follow up with you on

2:58:21that.

2:58:21>> Okay, thank you. Yeah, I'd appreciate

2:58:23that. And do we know how that compares

2:58:25to other communities as well?

2:58:27>> We can find out.

2:58:28>> Okay.

2:58:29Yeah, um yeah, I'd like to know that. I

2:58:31know sometimes that

2:58:33um recovery of stolen vehicles is um

2:58:37uh sort of a

2:58:39um you know, a a

2:58:41an incidence or or a rationale for

2:58:45uh adopting uh license plate readers.

2:58:48Uh and uh flock cameras that can be used

2:58:51as a justification for that.

2:58:52>> Yes.

2:58:53>> And so, it's just good to hear that even

2:58:56though we have policies as a city to not

2:58:59use these technologies that it seems

2:59:00like we have a pretty high success rate

2:59:03at recovering vehicles.

2:59:05>> Yes.

2:59:05>> And so, it's just good to understand

2:59:06better how it is that that that we do

2:59:09that. And how does that compare to other

2:59:10communities? So.

2:59:12Um and then my last question gets back

2:59:15to staffing. You shared this, but I just

2:59:17want to make sure I'm crystal clear on

2:59:18it. You talked about uh among sworn

2:59:20officers the

2:59:22um 531 that are authorized, the 422

2:59:25actual.

2:59:26And then, I think you said 90-plus

2:59:29recruits.

2:59:31>> Either in the academy or in some

2:59:34type [clears throat] of field training

2:59:35or uh pre-hires that we hire before the

2:59:38academy. So, they we kind of lump all of

2:59:39them in one category. So, they're either

2:59:42waiting for the next the next academy to

2:59:45uh for us to hold the next academy

2:59:47either they're in the academy or they're

2:59:48in field training. So not really

2:59:50operational. They're with training

2:59:51officers. And so we have about 93

2:59:56personnel that are not operational but

3:00:00count as staffing coming in.

3:00:02>> Okay.

3:00:03So does that mean that we are on track

3:00:05then or on a trajectory with this

3:00:07pipeline

3:00:08to

3:00:10having a much higher percent staffed

3:00:13rate?

3:00:13>> If we continue at this rate, I would say

3:00:15in about 18 months to a year,

3:00:18we will be closing that gap to to to a

3:00:22marginal number.

3:00:23>> Okay. All right. Thank you. It's an

3:00:25important discussions coming off of the

3:00:28summit to save lives with the violence

3:00:29reduction plan. I'm sure this is a lot

3:00:31of what you're thinking about and

3:00:32digging into. It's What are the choices

3:00:33that we're going to make in terms of

3:00:35allocation of resources, both how people

3:00:37are using their time

3:00:39and using other resources to be able to

3:00:40really tackle some of our most serious

3:00:43challenges. And so I thank you for doing

3:00:45that work and and speaking with us

3:00:47today. Thank you.

3:00:48>> And Director Smith, I just want to give

3:00:49him a some, you know, just recognize him

3:00:51that we have been working closely

3:00:53because our responsibilities,

3:00:56you know, they are they're married up to

3:00:57each other

3:00:59as far as enforcement and support. And I

3:01:02look forward to he has just been

3:01:04phenomenal with onboarding me on on the

3:01:06progress that has been made. And I look

3:01:08forward to working with him and the

3:01:10other department heads in the city to to

3:01:13make an impact on the community.

3:01:21>> Thank you. Good to see you, Chief

3:01:23Morales. Um, thank you for the report. I

3:01:26The only thing I just had a couple of

3:01:27and thank you to all my colleagues for

3:01:28their questions. Um,

3:01:30with the

3:01:32um, homicide clearance rate, could we

3:01:35get just a breakdown cuz you did a

3:01:36really good job explaining sometimes

3:01:37it's because prosecution isn't moving

3:01:39forward sometimes and so that would we

3:01:41would have a better understanding of I

3:01:43understand the bucket but like what are

3:01:44all the smaller pieces in

3:01:46in that um, statistic? That would be

3:01:48helpful. And then, um, as we're thinking

3:01:51about, um,

3:01:53um,

3:01:54more responsible gun ownership, um, you

3:01:56know, part of the issues that you don't

3:01:58have to report your gun stolen in North

3:02:00Carolina. Uh, and also there's not

3:02:03really a lot of enforcement mechanisms.

3:02:05So, folks who do do that, maybe

3:02:07purposefully, um, aren't, um, they don't

3:02:11really face any consequences, which is

3:02:12different than many other states. Um,

3:02:14so, when we are thinking about that

3:02:17collaboration with other jurisdictions

3:02:19around that, thinking about the

3:02:21political pressure that may need to be

3:02:23applied, um, and letting the politicians

3:02:26know what would be useful, uh, as we

3:02:28have our conversations with lobbyists,

3:02:30uh, and coordinating that effort even if

3:02:32it might fall on deaf ears in Raleigh.

3:02:34Um,

3:02:36but I think it would be better to

3:02:37investigate it. Things at least

3:02:38community members know

3:02:41that folks are are hearing what they

3:02:42want and and putting the pressure where

3:02:45it needs to be applied. Um, with also

3:02:48the, um,

3:02:50the the gun issue, several I think it's

3:02:53it's Hillside Civics

3:02:55classes that do the community program,

3:02:57like they do the projects. I hope this

3:03:00year, uh, usually it's twice a year

3:03:02though at the end of each semester they

3:03:03invite, um, officials from across the

3:03:05city, uh, elected and others. And so,

3:03:07hopefully you will get that invitation

3:03:09because the students are brilliant. Um,

3:03:11probably about a year ago there was a

3:03:13group of students that wanted to do kind

3:03:15of a big public gun, um,

3:03:18gun lock box program.

3:03:20And I shared with them that, "Hey, this

3:03:21would be a really excellent pro- uh,

3:03:23idea for participatory budgeting." Um,

3:03:26and so, as you are working with other

3:03:28departments, um,

3:03:30that's our community engagement

3:03:31department, really thinking through what

3:03:33are the opportunities that the city

3:03:35already has for those types of ideas,

3:03:37uh, and encouraging our residents to put

3:03:39those forward. I thought that that was

3:03:41an excellent idea, um, and that

3:03:43communication back to, "Yeah, you can

3:03:45keep a gun in your car in its own lock

3:03:47box in the trunk, and that's going going

3:03:49infinitely safer,

3:03:51uh, than just keeping it in a glove box.

3:03:53Um so, just uh I'm I'm glad that you're

3:03:55thinking about that. Um I think it's

3:03:57really really important and I appreciate

3:03:58that you're already bringing that lens

3:04:00to the work. Again, thank you so much uh

3:04:02for choosing Durham. We're happy to have

3:04:04you and your swearing-in uh ceremony was

3:04:06lovely.

3:04:06>> Thank you. And I'll just I'll just point

3:04:08out that there should be I know that

3:04:10there's a lot of government funding

3:04:12grants that were were that will support

3:04:15that initiative to provide those uh

3:04:17safety mechanisms to the community and

3:04:19we'll look into that and um and we'll

3:04:21make sure if we can acquire some funds

3:04:24that will utilize that to to provide

3:04:26some safety measures for the community.

3:04:30>> Thank you so much. Those were all my

3:04:31questions and comments.

3:04:32>> Thank you.

3:04:34>> All right, thank you. Um this was this

3:04:36was uh a great report. Um really just

3:04:41you know, we're getting this information

3:04:42today.

3:04:44Um I I want to shout out former Chief uh

3:04:47Andrews, interim Chief Tate, and now

3:04:50you.

3:04:51Uh because what we're seeing is

3:04:54uh you know, none of this stuff happens

3:04:55overnight, but we are seeing just the

3:04:57quality of our department.

3:05:00Uh and and I love to brag and I just

3:05:02think that we just have the best um

3:05:05police department in the in the state

3:05:07and probably definitely the country.

3:05:09Um

3:05:10folks could learn a thing or two from

3:05:12our our folks.

3:05:13Uh so, thanks for taking the helm and

3:05:15leading.

3:05:17Um

3:05:18and I mean, the clearance rates are are

3:05:21just phenomenal.

3:05:22Uh

3:05:24>> [clears throat]

3:05:25>> you know, those clearance rates are

3:05:26we're looking at numbers, but I I think

3:05:28about the family that gets closure.

3:05:30>> Yes.

3:05:31>> You know, um that that's really

3:05:32important

3:05:33>> Yes.

3:05:33>> to me. And I and I appreciate the

3:05:35compassion that we have in our

3:05:36department and keep it out in you know,

3:05:38in

3:05:39in the for um front of mind.

3:05:41Um

3:05:44I I don't want to I don't necessarily

3:05:46want a response today, but I do want to

3:05:48put this on the radar.

3:05:49We're getting the data today that

3:05:52happened 3 months ago.

3:05:54And I love to start exploring a way to

3:05:56just see this in real time.

3:05:58Um

3:05:59>> I I had that same conversation this

3:06:01morning.

3:06:02>> Okay, good.

3:06:04Almost like a like a dashboard or

3:06:05something. We We Durham does dashboards

3:06:08very well.

3:06:09Um

3:06:10but you know, that that would and

3:06:12that could potentially just, you know, I

3:06:14mean, you could maybe come in quarterly

3:06:16and give an update, but it'll allow us

3:06:18to see real-time data to make really

3:06:21really good informed decisions as we are

3:06:23getting into this uh

3:06:25active actualizing the Summit on Saving

3:06:28Lives recommendations.

3:06:31So, that work plan is going to come

3:06:32forth and having data in real time with

3:06:35the actual work plan

3:06:38um will help us be able to fund it

3:06:40better instead of waiting on our, you

3:06:41know, giving some, you know, um

3:06:45random number uh to fund it and then not

3:06:47getting the uh or meeting the

3:06:49expectations that we have.

3:06:51So, uh I want to talk more about that

3:06:53when we get our one-on-one on the

3:06:54schedule.

3:06:55Uh I um beyond the numbers, I I I want

3:06:58to I want to just highlight uh

3:07:00character.

3:07:01Um and I hope this is okay that I

3:07:03disclose this, but I I called the chief

3:07:05this weekend cuz it was some matter the

3:07:07delegation was coming and they needed to

3:07:09get some specialized parking for the

3:07:11buses and stuff.

3:07:12And uh we had a situation where an

3:07:14officer um hand was hurt.

3:07:16And um

3:07:19this how I knew that we were going to be

3:07:21all right. I I called the chief to ask

3:07:23her, you know, "Hey, uh can you just

3:07:25check with this hotel about parking?"

3:07:28And she said, "Well, I'm at the hospital

3:07:31checking on my officer. He hurt his

3:07:33hand.

3:07:34And I'll go over right after that." I

3:07:35said, "Whoa, you don't have to go over.

3:07:37I just, you know, you can just make a

3:07:38call." She said, "Nope, I'm going over

3:07:39there myself."

3:07:41And um so, okay. All right.

3:07:44That displayed to me uh your level of

3:07:48commitment.

3:07:49And I think that's going to be really

3:07:51important internally

3:07:53uh as far as the culture in the

3:07:54department.

3:07:56Which is something I was, you know, I

3:07:57was worried about and just uh disrupting

3:07:59culture while we're getting into this

3:08:01major work on the summit and the

3:08:03recommendations. And uh I know it was

3:08:05something small, but it meant a lot. I

3:08:07know it meant a lot to the officer. It

3:08:08meant a lot to me as the mayor of the

3:08:10city.

3:08:11And um yeah, I just really appreciate uh

3:08:14the way you've come in.

3:08:16And And I know you like doing better

3:08:17than everywhere else. You don't have to

3:08:19say that. We'll We'll We'll just

3:08:20>> We'll talk offline.

3:08:21>> It's It's between us. It's between

3:08:22[laughter] us.

3:08:23Uh but you know, thank you. Um

3:08:26I I do have one question. This might be

3:08:27for your attorney.

3:08:29I considering um

3:08:31the United States' very um

3:08:34intimate relationship with the Second

3:08:35Amendment and how it's hands-off in many

3:08:38ways,

3:08:39um are we not allowed to make it an

3:08:42offense for folks not locking their

3:08:45guns properly?

3:08:49>> Hi, Mr. Mayor. That is not a question

3:08:51that I am prepared to speak on, but I

3:08:53absolutely can research that issue and

3:08:55we can provide something in writing to

3:08:56the council.

3:08:58>> Okay.

3:09:00Councilman McCook, is it

3:09:04state issue?

3:09:06Yeah.

3:09:07Yeah. I Cuz I mean, we can burn our

3:09:10resources all day. We can educate as

3:09:11much as possible. I do think it's

3:09:13important that we work with the

3:09:14Sheriff's Department. He does uh the

3:09:16Sheriff's Department does a lot of

3:09:18education on this as well.

3:09:20If we can do it and we have our

3:09:22community uh engagement program. We can

3:09:24do whatever we can locally. Um but I

3:09:26mean,

3:09:30there has to be responsibility and

3:09:32accountability where we can put it.

3:09:35You know, uh and and that's not me

3:09:37trying to arrest folks, but

3:09:40if you're being irresponsible with the

3:09:41weapon, then you play a part in that.

3:09:44You know, so um

3:09:46yeah. I definitely want to look more

3:09:48into that and see what we can do uh

3:09:50beyond just education.

3:09:52>> And I'll just um if not to uh interrupt

3:09:55you, but I'll just say that the gravity

3:09:57and the weight of the consequences of

3:09:59not

3:10:00um securing firearms is absolutely

3:10:02devastating to this community. Having to

3:10:05look in the families' eyes and and offer

3:10:08my condolences

3:10:10uh for the loss of their loved ones is

3:10:13is

3:10:14um

3:10:15it's very impactful

3:10:17to everyone involved, the officers that

3:10:19respond to the scene, our um

3:10:22our uh forensics people, everyone that

3:10:24has to go out on those scenes. It It is

3:10:27a ripple effect that is felt all

3:10:29throughout this community and it's

3:10:31utterly devastating to families. And I I

3:10:34just I don't I don't know how else to

3:10:36say it other than

3:10:38heartbreaking.

3:10:40>> Yeah. Yeah.

3:10:42So, in many areas we're we're headed in

3:10:44the right direction. Uh as you are

3:10:46learning more about uh the department

3:10:48and about the city and all of the uh

3:10:50various resources that are available. We

3:10:52are a progressive city. We have I mean

3:10:55we for a long time we were uh resource

3:10:57rich and collaboration poor. We're now

3:11:00making significant investments to be

3:11:01more collaboration uh competent as well.

3:11:04Um I'd love to hear um

3:11:07give yourself 6 months and then I'd love

3:11:09to hear what your recommendations would

3:11:10be in regards of you know, um continuing

3:11:14the direction that we're going uh as as

3:11:16a city and and I do know that police in

3:11:19nature is reactive. But uh I think

3:11:22Durham has in the past and can still be

3:11:26uh proactive in a sense where we're um

3:11:28working to keep folks safe.

3:11:31>> And Mayor, I I do think that we have

3:11:32capacity to at least have a weekly

3:11:35portal

3:11:36with weekly stats and if we don't have

3:11:38that capacity, we will build it um to

3:11:41so we'll we're forward-facing with those

3:11:43stats and real-time stats at least

3:11:45weekly for the community.

3:11:47>> And and I know a lot, you know,

3:11:49sometimes data can be overwhelming, but

3:11:51the closer that the data dashboard could

3:11:53be to your narrative rather than just a

3:11:55presentation would be helpful.

3:11:57Um

3:12:00All right.

3:12:01Well, thank you so much.

3:12:02>> Thank you.

3:12:02>> It's great to have you.

3:12:03>> Thank you.

3:12:05>> Yes, Mr. Manager.

3:12:06>> Uh as we welcome Chief Masters for her

3:12:10first presentation,

3:12:11I wanted to take this quick opportunity

3:12:14to

3:12:15uh share appreciation and

3:12:17acknowledgement for the incredible

3:12:19service of Deputy Chief Tate who just

3:12:23very recently served as our interim

3:12:24chief. Uh Chief Tate

3:12:27brought us

3:12:33Uh Chief Tate is a product of Durham, a

3:12:36product of this department, and the the

3:12:39passion and professionalism with which

3:12:41he has served our department and our

3:12:44community is emblematic of the of the

3:12:50department that Chief Masters has come

3:12:52into and and just shared praise about uh

3:12:55the reason she found it in such good

3:12:57shape is because of leaders like Chief

3:12:59Tate.

3:13:00Chief Tate has recently informed us that

3:13:04he is going to be heading into

3:13:06retirement, and as

3:13:09I just wanted to take this opportunity

3:13:11in case he wasn't in front of the

3:13:12council again in this setting

3:13:14to let you join me in appreciating his

3:13:18tremendous service to Durham. Wish him

3:13:21uh

3:13:22happiness and relaxation and success in

3:13:25retirement and to just let him know how

3:13:28grateful I am

3:13:30personally and professionally for his

3:13:32support and service

3:13:34and his dedication to the city.

3:13:53Thank you for that,

3:13:55Mr. Manager.

3:13:58Deputy Chief Tate, thank you for your

3:13:59service.

3:14:01I've always appreciated your your

3:14:03counsel and and conversations that um

3:14:07retirement or not, I'm sure they're

3:14:08going to continue.

3:14:09I'll be calling you asking you

3:14:11questions, so

3:14:12I thank you for your service to the Bull

3:14:14City and thanks for being a product of

3:14:16the Bull City, born and raised.

3:14:18Um all right. Well, colleagues,

3:14:21I will be leaving here shortly and going

3:14:24over to the Nasher Museum to see the

3:14:27installation of the Declaration of

3:14:29Independence. If you would

3:14:31Is that Duke? Yep.

3:14:32If you all are free to go on and free to

3:14:34join and

3:14:36come see that.

3:14:37>> So it's moving from the library to Duke

3:14:38cuz that was Yeah.

3:14:39>> Yes, from the public library, main

3:14:41library to Duke University. And uh this

3:14:44is a one of the original replicas copies

3:14:47owned by um

3:14:49Mr. Rubenstein and he'll be there as

3:14:51well today.

3:14:53All right. Well, that's what we have uh

3:14:55today.

3:14:56Yes, sir.

3:14:57>> other matters if I could.

3:14:58>> me get the settle the agenda.

3:14:59>> Yeah. Do you want to settle the agenda

3:15:00first? I want to I have one other

3:15:01matters.

3:15:03>> Uh yes, uh Mr. Manager.

3:15:07>> Thank you

3:15:08uh

3:15:09uh Mayor to settle the agenda for today,

3:15:12I have on consent items 2 through 11 and

3:15:1513 through 22. On GBA public hearing

3:15:18items 23 and 24.

3:15:20Items 1 and 12 were disposed of in

3:15:23action today. Thank you.

3:15:25>> Thank you.

3:15:26I'll entertain a motion to settle the

3:15:28agenda.

3:15:29>> Second.

3:15:30>> Moved and properly seconded. All in

3:15:31favor?

3:15:31>> Aye.

3:15:32>> Aye. All opposed? All right. Let's do a

3:15:34wrist.

3:15:35>> Thanks, Mr. Mayor. Yeah, sorry. Sorry I

3:15:36missed the beginning of the meeting. I

3:15:37just did I did want to request an

3:15:38excused absence for the next work

3:15:40session on October the 8th.

3:15:43>> I'll entertain a motion to grant an

3:15:45excused absence.

3:15:46Moved and properly seconded. All in

3:15:47favor?

3:15:48All opposed?

3:15:49>> All right.

3:15:50Thank you all so much. I believe the

3:15:52next time we'll gather is on the inner

3:15:53city visit.

3:15:55And

3:15:56Mr. Let's say Council member Wrist,

3:15:58Kopack, and Mayor Pro Tem if I could see

3:16:01you all at separate times after the

3:16:03meeting today.

3:16:05Thank you. We are adjourned at 4:04

3:16:074:16.