2026-09-28 - Planning & Economic Development Commission

00:04Yeah, guess

00:06>> then when when they were cleaning up

00:08removing stuff in the kitchen, the

00:10plumbers command to shut all the water

00:12to all the like stuff in the kitchen.

00:14Guess what?

00:16>> Indiana should be moved over here too,

00:18right?

00:18>> Freaking.

00:19>> So what happened to me happened to

00:24>> Chris?

00:30be over.

00:32>> Yes. S here and Deanna should be moved

00:34over.

00:35>> No, they need to have

00:36>> I'm I'm on the as a panelist.

00:39>> Oh, perfect.

00:41>> I'm trying to bring over.

00:44>> There we go. Okay, we're recording in

00:47live everybody.

00:56>> Missing Don or missing

00:58>> B.

01:10>> Yeah, he's

01:13that guy.

01:15Oh, just a little. There you go.

01:18>> Okay.

01:21>> All right.

01:22>> Yeah.

01:23>> Good evening everybody. This is Abby Day

01:25Molina, the chair of the Nantucket

01:27Planning and Economic Development

01:28Commission. We're meeting today,

01:30September 28th at 5:00 p.m. in hybrid

01:33fashion with some people physically

01:35present in the trailer at 131 Pleasant

01:38Street and some people virtually on

01:41Zoom. The first thing we'll do is roll

01:45call. So, please respond affirmatively

01:47when I call your name. Dave Iverson

01:51>> here.

01:51>> Nan LOL

01:52>> here.

01:53>> Joe Tooff

01:54>> here.

01:54>> Christina Jamie

01:55>> here.

01:56>> Liza Hatton

01:57>> here. Jesse Bell

01:59>> here.

02:00>> Mike Miserelli

02:01>> here.

02:02>> And the chair is here. I guess do I note

02:05who's absent?

02:09Yes. Okay. For the record, the

02:12commissioners who aren't here are Don

02:14Hill, Bert Johnson, and Brian Flson. And

02:18if they join, we will not.

02:22>> Okay. Um, do I have a motion to approve

02:25the agenda?

02:26>> So, move. Second.

02:28>> Okay. Motion by Mike, second by Dave.

02:31Since we don't have anybody online, we

02:34can do these in person.

02:35>> Oh, we can do that.

02:37>> Okay.

02:38So motion by Mike, second by Dave to

02:42approve the agenda. All in favor?

02:44>> I

02:46think 2019.

02:48>> Okay. And moving on. Um, do we have any

02:53public comment for anything not on the

02:56agenda?

02:58>> We have no public in attendance.

03:01>> Okay.

03:02>> All right. So, um, the next item on the

03:04agenda is we have two sets of minutes

03:07and apologies, the July 14th minutes. I

03:10think we've talked about this at some of

03:11our previous meetings. We've had kind of

03:13like staff turnover and I think there

03:15have been edits, so things have gotten

03:18lost in the shuffle, but I believe this

03:20is the last set of minutes with like any

03:23edits or issues. Correct.

03:26>> Yes.

03:27So, um, we have the meetings from July

03:2914th, 2025 and then the meetings from

03:33April, uh, the minutes from April 17th,

03:372026, July 27th, 2026, and then the

03:42September 14th, 2026 meeting, which was

03:44a joint meeting with the planning board.

03:47So, those were in the packet. I don't

03:49know if anybody had any questions and

03:50it's I'm just going to recuse from the

03:53um 71425 because I wasn't here.

03:56>> That's correct.

03:58>> And I wasn't on the board the first two

04:0174 and 27. So

04:04>> was I the vice chair then?

04:08I was

04:09>> No, I think was

04:10>> Yeah, I was here.

04:11>> It was It might have been like our first

04:13meeting.

04:14>> I know. As Natal's chair and the vice

04:16chair.

04:16>> Oh, in the minutes. said,

04:19>> um,

04:19>> what was that?

04:20>> If

04:22>> so, we need we need six people to vote

04:24on this. So, if three were accused, that

04:25means we can't take action.

04:26>> Yeah,

04:28just because you weren't here doesn't

04:29mean you can't.

04:30>> You can still you can still vote even if

04:31you have to

04:35do my right.

04:36>> Thank you. [laughter] As long as you

04:39>> Okay.

04:41>> Exactly. Do I have a motion to approve

04:44the minutes from July 14th, April 17th,

04:47July 27th, and September 14th?

04:51>> So move.

04:53>> Second.

04:54>> Okay. Motion by Mike, second by

04:55Christina. All those in favor?

04:57>> I love this house.

05:01>> Okay. Um,

05:02>> guys, I'm here.

05:04>> Oh, yay. Okay.

05:05>> Welcome, Don.

05:06>> Sorry. Now you have to take roll call.

05:09>> [laughter]

05:09>> Well, we already approved that.

05:12>> We can just skip that one.

05:14>> Yeah. Going forward, we'll take roll

05:16calls since Don's here. Well, even

05:19though that happened, thank you, Don,

05:20for being here. So, we

05:23we're Okay. Um announcements. I will

05:26turn it over to staff. Okay. So, we have

05:29actually four announcements. I'll do the

05:32first three. The planning board's

05:34accepting public comments on the draft

05:35master plan. Um, written comments are

05:38due through October 15th at the end of

05:41the day. Um, the planning board will

05:43hold the hearing on October 19th, at

05:45which time they'll still accept comments

05:48during the meeting, but written comments

05:49are due by the 15th. Um, as part of an

05:52ongoing effort to digitize all records

05:54that plus the building files will be

05:56removed on October 19th. So, everyone

05:59needs to be aware of that in the public

06:01and if you need to access those, we'll

06:02need a little bit of lead time to

06:04retrieve them. And then the November and

06:07December NPDC meetings will be combined

06:09into a single meeting on December 7th.

06:13Um we've invited the select board county

06:15commissioners to attend that meeting as

06:17well. There's going to be an extension

06:20of the TRA info presentation that you're

06:22getting tonight at that meeting and it's

06:24something that came out of the capital

06:26improvement plan meeting. Uh so we are

06:28amending the contract to to do an

06:31amendment back to Adam and then Mike.

06:35>> Uh thank you Madam Chair. Uh there's

06:37more information in my packet about this

06:39and I'm sure you've seen some

06:40information going around but the

06:41milestone Rotary Reconstruction

06:43publicformational meeting is tomorrow

06:45night at 6 p.m. via Zoom. Uh uh there's

06:49a link uh I'm sure you can just do a

06:51search for Milestone Rotary

06:52Reconstruction to get meeting

06:53information, but there's a link in my my

06:55report for that as well. Uh I just want

06:57to say if it's all right also uh to

06:59thank our communication staff. Um

07:00although this is a mass DOT uh hosted

07:03meeting. Uh there's been a good

07:05partnership with our communication staff

07:06and the communication staff at the state

07:08to help publicize this. Um so appreciate

07:10their help in this. Thank you.

07:14>> Thank you Mike. Thank you staff.

07:17Um Jesse had a question on the

07:20announcement. I did too.

07:22>> On the the files being digitized. How

07:24much is a little bit of lead time and

07:27when is the goal for them to be scanned

07:29in?

07:30>> Yeah.

07:30>> Well, I would say at the beginning the

07:34lead time maybe a couple of weeks

07:36because the files have to be boxed up

07:38here, loaded, taken off island,

07:42transported to a facility in I think New

07:45Jersey and then unloaded. So that takes

07:49a while. But after that process gets

07:51going, the lead times probably under a

07:53week. I mean, that's something we'll

07:54have to verify with Iron Mountain, the

07:57consultant. And right now, I don't want

08:00to commit to a time frame. Um, we've had

08:03all of the planning board, zoning board,

08:07HDC files scanned, and that has taken a

08:11little bit longer than originally

08:13thought. So, we'll see if this goes a

08:16little smoother.

08:18>> Okay. And my question was, do you guys

08:20want maybe to make it easier if people

08:23have requests to do them in writing? So

08:27you guys at least know and can

08:29anticipate if people can or is that

08:32notful?

08:34>> I mean, most people come in to the

08:35office to look at those and so we have a

08:37system that's been working.

08:38>> Okay.

08:39>> Yeah.

08:40>> All right. So just make sure everybody

08:43knows it's going to be some lag

08:46>> and we're doing additional outreach on

08:48this. So there we're working with the

08:50communications office. It was an

08:52announcement on the select board agenda.

08:54It'll be in the inquir mirror. It'll be

08:55in the current and dayb breakak. Um so

08:58we're doing as much outreach as possible

09:00to get the word out.

09:03>> Great. It's been smoothly so far other

09:05than taking a little longer than we

09:07anticipated. But as far as access to the

09:09public, it's been going well. Okay.

09:11Ultimately, the fact it'll be online

09:13will be great. So, there may in the

09:17beginning, but it'll be

09:18>> and then going forward they'll all be

09:20digital. Is that how it's like the board

09:22of health records are now, just a

09:24slightly different system? Okay, great.

09:26Thank you.

09:27>> Thanks. All right. Um, moving on to the

09:31agenda action discussion items. The

09:34first thing we have is the

09:35transportation program manager update.

09:38Um Mike is going to talk about the

09:41travel demand forecast model and then I

09:43think you had a letter you wanted to

09:45request for us. Mike Mike and um DOT

09:49staff I believe and thank you guys for

09:51coming also.

09:53>> Thank you madam chair. The first item is

09:55our third presentation of the traffic

09:57modeling outputs for future year

09:58conditions focusing on 2050. Uh said

10:01here Murphy and uh Deanna Peabody from

10:04traffic info are going to walk you

10:06through that. As Leslie noted, there

10:07will be a fourth presentation on

10:09December 7th to look at the uh impact of

10:12capital improvements and and doing some

10:14other travel demand management uh

10:16scenario planning for that uh December

10:187th meeting. But Sadir will present the

10:20uh at least what the the model is

10:22showing for 2050 conditions and some of

10:24the land use. So uh Sadir, do you want

10:27me to uh share are you prepared to share

10:28your screen at all? Uh either ways I

10:30think uh if you could share it then if

10:33you want to hold on to any of the slide

10:34and say anything extra that might make

10:36it easy for you.

10:37>> Sounds good. So I'll go ahead and uh and

10:40do that. Um okay.

10:42>> So we should be good. Go ahead.

10:44>> Yeah thank you Mike. Um uh so yeah we

10:48can go ahead. Uh so this meeting is uh

10:52next slide please

10:54is going to talk like Mike said was

10:56about future scenarios. There are two

10:59distinct future scenarios we have

11:01analyzed. I'll go through them. Each of

11:03these two have some subcomponents to it.

11:06We want to present uh to you some of the

11:09modeling and analysis results in terms

11:11of how much population change we're

11:14expecting, what kind of traffic volumes

11:16we expect, and a way to assess how much

11:23the delays would increase. We calling it

11:25the travel time index. It tells us a

11:27sense of how reliable the travel will be

11:30on the island. We then want to take a

11:32first step into looking into some travel

11:35demand management strategies. We are

11:38working our plans to work on several

11:40other strategies throughout October. And

11:43so for the December meeting, we will

11:44have a clear uh you know discussion on

11:49what would likely be needed on the

11:51island uh to better manage some of the

11:53increase in travel demand uh we can

11:55expect in the coming years. I just want

11:57to give you a quick sense of what we are

11:59doing. And the last we want to sort of

12:02compare all of the scenarios

12:04um to give you an assessment of what the

12:07relative um levels are between each of

12:10these scenarios. Next slide please. So

12:13this one I'm going to spend a little bit

12:15of time uh on just to lay the groundwork

12:18of what we are going to talk about. So

12:21the first the top part of it shows the

12:23base year the average condition numbers

12:27that you see population employment all

12:29comes from existing sources from US

12:32census from uh UMass uh Donghue

12:35Institute

12:37um actual data that was provided on

12:40ferry passengers and vehicles and

12:42airport

12:44that also included information for peak

12:47season and so uh it's a combination of

12:51data that we have like for ferry and

12:53airport. We have that and then combined

12:56with um some assessment from the uh

13:00Nantucket data portal. Uh they had made

13:02some assessments of how much the

13:04population and households employment

13:06change from the average which is all 12

13:09months to the peak season which is July

13:12and August. So that's what you have seen

13:14in the past base year for 2019. The

13:18discussion for this presentation is two

13:21future scenarios and we're calling it

13:222050 LRTP for long range transportation

13:26plan and the other one is the buildout.

13:30So it it uh sort of gives you sort of a

13:33you know for a lack of a better a lower

13:35end and a higher end of the future

13:37scenarios. So that's how I think it's

13:39best to be viewed. Each of them have the

13:42same conditions the average and the

13:44peak. The average again for the LRTP

13:48comes from uh the US UMass Donahe

13:51Institute. Uh we also did our own

13:53forecasts based on trends for ferry and

13:57airport. Now some of the information

13:59also comes from the airport master plan.

14:04um uh as well. Peak season is again the

14:07same things we whatever we assumed in

14:09terms of increases in population

14:11households um between average and peak

14:14we sort of carried it over to the 2050.

14:17So population roughly doubles

14:20um the same thing with ferry traffic

14:23while the airport triples and so you can

14:27see that that's the number that we have

14:29come with for the long range plan. the

14:32buildout is the upper limit if you will

14:35and this was you know we got a lot of

14:37help from Mike on this one went back and

14:39forth on what would be a good upper

14:42limit to use and so finally we are

14:44settled on 8,263

14:46houseser households not housing units

14:49households on on an average on the

14:51island it's sort of the upper limit that

14:54sets the stage for how much population

14:56how much employment you know everything

14:58gets derived from it school enrollment

15:00passengers and airport all of it depends

15:03on the population that we derive from

15:05the households and so that you see it

15:08same thing with peak we assume the same

15:10kind of increases that happens from

15:13average to July and August

15:15so um one quick uh thing I wanted to

15:18mention was on school enrollment

15:20um you will see some numbers for the

15:22peak season during summer but there's a

15:24little bit of activity that happens in

15:26the schools and so we wanted to sort of

15:27account for it it's a fairly small

15:29amount but we still wanted to account

15:30for some activity that happens in the

15:33schools.

15:35Next slide please. So before I get into

15:38a you know a ton of uh slides that

15:42present the future scenarios I wanted to

15:44sort of the lay the groundwork that

15:46it'll be good to keep in mind. And so

15:49this shows the baseear

15:52population. And as you can see um a lot

15:55of the density if you will is focused on

15:59areas uh around um old south road you

16:04know this no shop area um mia comet and

16:07west mia comet areas that's the areas

16:10where you have a lot of density in

16:12house.

16:14Um next slide please. So now I'm going

16:17to sort of go into what the future is

16:21predicting and where the uh increases in

16:25population is likely to occur. And so I

16:28first let me lay the groundwork on these

16:30slides and you'll see them consistently

16:32throughout. The background shows where

16:35it is more likely to have uh population

16:38growth and as you can see it is the

16:41Nantucket town. same areas around uh

16:45Mia, West Mia and Nshop areas. But you

16:49will also see a little bit of a growth

16:50in sconet. So keep that in mind as to as

16:54we go through because this sort of leads

16:57to why things happen the way they

16:59happen. On top of it, you'll see

17:01colorcoded what's the daily volume that

17:04we are estimating for 2050 on an average

17:07conditions. And it's colorcoded where uh

17:10the red shows uh and the purple shows

17:12where the greatest growth in uh volume

17:15occurs. And in this you can see that it

17:17is around milestone and specifically

17:19around the road.

17:22Next slide please.

17:24This one shows uh what I was referring

17:27to as the delays and we sort of compare

17:30travel times with free flow which is the

17:33posted uh travel times when there is no

17:35traffic what the travel time will be

17:37versus on an average conditions during

17:40the AM uh peak periods what the travel

17:43time will be and if you can compare it

17:44we are sort of trying to color code it

17:46and as you can see uh there are areas

17:49these are sort of like bottlenecks you

17:51can see it in primarily red and purple

17:54you will see that they are around uh the

17:57milestone rotary and some delays along

18:00Milestone Road and Surfside Road.

18:04Next slide please. The PM is somewhat

18:07similar slightly more along Old South

18:09Road you know additional increases but

18:12overall it remains the same that we are

18:14seeing we will have by 2050 under the

18:18sort of the low-end scenario as

18:20reflected in the LRTP you will see

18:22increases in delays along old south road

18:25on an average basis.

18:28Now moving to the peak condition under

18:31the

18:33uh LRTP and you'll see it is a the

18:38increases are the the population sorry

18:41the volume increases are along milestone

18:43you can see there's spreading more

18:45because we are having a greater growth

18:47in population and there's lot more

18:49travel uh going between uh throughout

18:52the island.

18:54Next slide please. And you can see now

18:58uh in addition to the red and purples,

19:00we have the deep purple. So the rotary

19:03is in deep purple. There are certain

19:04sections of Surfside that are uh in deep

19:07purple. But then the delays are

19:09extending

19:11uh along uh fairground Surfside all

19:14through towards the beach um milestone

19:17road. Um so the amount of sort of

19:22increase in um increase in travel times

19:26will go up during the preconditions

19:28under the LRTP assumption.

19:32Okay, the next slide please. So we will

19:35now so you got a sense of what it would

19:37be for this would be the PM again very

19:39similar uh as you can see same places uh

19:43but the level of you know sort of the

19:45deep purple goes a little bit more than

19:48what you would see during the AM

19:49condition.

19:52Okay so now we go into lot of the upper

19:54bounds of what would happen in 2050. Um

19:59next slide please.

20:01Here uh this is again the average

20:03condition. The amount of traffic that we

20:06are estimating is higher than under the

20:09LRTP condition under the lower bound

20:11condition. Um next slide please.

20:15Um you can see the same kind of uh

20:17delays again same areas are showing up

20:21uh dur on an average conditions along

20:23Old South Road the milestone rotary surf

20:26site um as well. Next slide.

20:32And this is the PM very similar again uh

20:36the the same kind of conditions that you

20:38saw on AM. So again this is the average

20:41conditions. So this one now when we go

20:44into the peak it is uh the upper bound

20:48of population and uh employment growth

20:51during July and August.

20:54And you can see yeah now you can see

20:56growth in volumes on Poplos

21:00um Marquette further uh west and all

21:04along milestone all the way up to

21:06sconet.

21:09Next slide please. Um so in the peak

21:12condition under buildout yeah you will

21:16see a lot of um highways uh a lot of the

21:20roadways in on the island are um you

21:24know they have uh delays with the travel

21:28times much higher than twice more than

21:31twice the time when it would be when

21:33there's no traffic.

21:36Next slide. And then again same thing

21:38with the PM more or similar to the AM.

21:44So what we wanted to do was okay there

21:47is going to be increase in uh population

21:50it is just a matter of a degree there is

21:53going to be increases in travel times um

21:56on an average condition you know there's

21:58going to be increase but in the peak

21:59condition it is going to increase um um

22:03significantly. So we got a sort of plan

22:06out for how to better manage this travel

22:08demand. That's something there are

22:11several options that we are going to

22:12look into. We sort of wanted to explore

22:16and to give you a sense of what these

22:18travel demand management strategies is

22:20and this is one example. Um I will just

22:23introduce this and I will hand it to

22:25Leslie to uh to speak to this to the

22:28slide. Um so one of the things that we

22:30had noticed on Nucket when we are doing

22:33the modeling work is that um we had to

22:38reduce the amount of of travel that the

22:41model was estimating going within a zone

22:45called the intrazonal trips and that's

22:48the only way we would be able to meet uh

22:51match the existing traffic volumes on

22:53the highways. And so what we are

22:55noticing is that there's a lot there's

22:58much lower level of intrazonal trips

23:00trips that stay within the zone itself.

23:03So one of the ways to manage demand is

23:06to try to look for ways to keep the

23:09trips that are generated in a zone to be

23:11within the zone.

23:13Um so this speaks to one of the examples

23:17that we are exploring and uh I'm going

23:19to hand it to Leslie to speak to it.

23:23So what um Mike and the consultant and I

23:28talked about was you know possible ways

23:30to better disperse the traffic and in

23:34the current master plan the one that's

23:36already approved but it carries forward

23:38is to create little village notes and

23:42sconcet is a really good example of you

23:46know they have little Scottet market in

23:49the Scottet bookstore we can get a

23:51variety of things there's debts. There's

23:53the post office. They have a few

23:56restaurants and it's very very low

23:59impact and it, you know, perhaps keeps

24:03people within the village from driving

24:05into town for their every need if it's

24:08something. So the thought would be to

24:11you know through planning efforts with

24:14the planning board to create other

24:16little village centers little village

24:19nodes like throughout where these

24:21population centers are going to continue

24:23to increase. So perhaps

24:27at some point maybe in Surfside or maybe

24:32Tom Evers or

24:35west of town

24:37there's a variety of areas where you

24:40know the projections are showing the

24:42growth will be more concentrated than

24:43others. So that would be again, you

24:48know, trying to keep people from driving

24:49to the mid island or, you know, into the

24:52downtown

24:53stores, shopping areas for for

24:56everything. And I think that does have,

24:59you know, an impact on the future

25:01traffic, which Sadier will talk about

25:04next.

25:06>> Thank you, Leslie. Next slide, please.

25:08So if you look at this slide, um what we

25:13wanted to look at was where do the which

25:17are the zones that would experience the

25:19greatest increases in households

25:23and that relatively have a less amount

25:27of commercially zoned.

25:30Um those were the areas we were thinking

25:33we should look for opportunities for the

25:36village nodes that Leslie was talking

25:37about. And so we wanted to keep the

25:40overall employment levels the same and

25:43so do some sort of a reallocation if you

25:46will, you know, try to create some um

25:49village nodes in these specific the

25:52traffic analysis zones that are

25:54highlighted in green

25:56um so that there would be some kind of

25:59um reallocation of employment.

26:02Um so that's sort of again it's an

26:05initial first step. This is sort of

26:07giving you a sense of what are the types

26:09of strategies that we're looking at. I

26:11will go into a little bit more on some

26:13of the other ones but this was our very

26:15first step just to see you know would it

26:17help by creating these small nodes. Next

26:20slide please. And again we were looking

26:23at same things on uh in the same one

26:26volumes. Um and you know one of the

26:29things that it looked like because we

26:31were dealing with fairly small size you

26:34know the village node that is inconsent

26:37is not that big and we were sort of

26:38using that as an example of what would

26:41be the size of these village node in the

26:43other areas. So it's not it's not very

26:46big so you don't see that significant a

26:48change. There is going to be still

26:50volume uh during the peak season um that

26:54you would see. Next slide please.

26:57Um again this compares the um travel

27:01time index again you know we still see

27:04some of the delays on old south even the

27:07rotary on side you know it is not it's

27:11not like a silver bullet but uh you know

27:14it sort of goes towards sort of managing

27:17it it doesn't solve all the problem but

27:19it tries it sort of is a is a is a small

27:22step towards in that direction next

27:24slide please and then again on the PM

27:26you similar it there is still delays

27:29along some of the areas that show up uh

27:32during an average condition.

27:35So um this sort of ties it together what

27:38we wanted to show you in terms of the

27:41vehicle miles travel and you know a a

27:46metric that we are defining and I'll

27:48explain it in a bit which takes the

27:51travel time indices information that you

27:54saw on a network-wide basis and comes up

27:56with one number.

27:58So on the left you see the daily vehicle

28:00miles travel um and it shows for the

28:03base year and the 2050 for an average

28:05and peak condition and you can see that

28:07there is a significant growth in the

28:10peak uh travel from existing condition

28:14and so you know whether you think about

28:17it in in terms of the LRTP scenario or

28:20the buildout scenario that you know the

28:22lower and upper bound you're talking

28:23about a substantial increase in vehicle

28:25miles travel so that would require

28:28higher at least definitely during the

28:30peak condition to better manage travel

28:32demand the very first one that we tried

28:35u through these village nodes yeah I

28:38mean it brought about a small small

28:40decrease in vehicle milestone it wasn't

28:43that much um because the because the

28:45size of the employment reallocation

28:48we're looking at was fairly small uh so

28:50we will so it basically tells us we have

28:52to look for additional ways uh to try to

28:55manage demand another way of looking at

28:58you know what the effect of the growth

29:01in population is going to be is to look

29:03at what um percent of our of the

29:07highways are going to have what we call

29:10as a reliable travel where traffic is um

29:15is not uh you know is less than uh is

29:19close to or less than you know 50% more

29:22than the free flow travel time and so

29:26here if you look at it on average

29:27condition um during existing

29:31most of the highways there are small

29:32pockets where you would have delays but

29:35most of the highways uh are you know so

29:38we are close to 100% where there is

29:41reliable trouble on an average

29:43conditions but during peak condition it

29:44goes down we are down to 60%.

29:48Uh one thing to remember is this here

29:50what I'm looking we are looking at are

29:52the major highways not all of the local

29:55roads. There are a whole bunch of local

29:56roads. This is primarily major highways

29:59which we call minor arterials collectors

30:02and some important local roads. So it's

30:04a uh it's it's only the major roads

30:07within the island that we're looking at.

30:10Um and then you can see that the amount

30:12of reliable travels goes down. average

30:16conditions uh in the buildout you know

30:18you are on an average itself it is going

30:21to be close to where the base you know

30:23year peak condition is. So you can get a

30:26sense of on the upper limit of

30:29population growth what the conditions

30:30will be and you will have substantially

30:33lower amount of uh highways where you

30:37will not experience delays. Again, you

30:41know, the 20% 25% might be too scary,

30:44but you have to remember that it is

30:46primarily along the main highways in the

30:49island where you will find uh delay

30:51increases due to the expected growth in

30:54population. Now again, you can see that

30:57on the TDM it does improve it on an

31:00average condition when compared to the

31:02buildout. Yeah, there is a a slight

31:05improvement. So it does help in

31:07improving travel but it is not to the

31:10extent where we could come bring it back

31:12to existing conditions. So we have to

31:14look at other other options. Next slide

31:17please.

31:18>> Just on this point on this slide just to

31:20give a said here is it fair to say that

31:22uh other places usually say 80% is a

31:26good target for re of reliable system.

31:28So you can see how we're above that in

31:29the shoulder season but not in the peak

31:31obviously. Uh but in the future years

31:34even the uh the shoulder season doesn't

31:36achieve that 80% which is by rule of

31:38thumb I suppose is a good standard to

31:40shoot for. Is that fair to say?

31:41>> No that's that's right. That's a good

31:43point. Yeah. This uh metric that you're

31:45seeing percent reliable travel is

31:48something that came about as part of the

31:50map 21 legislation that federal highway

31:52uses that all states report what portion

31:55of their highways is reliable travel. So

31:59we are sort of using it for this uh for

32:02this island as well. Yeah. So that's a

32:03good point Mike.

32:06Um so u again this one sort of compares

32:10to the left uh when we have no uh travel

32:15demand management and when we have and

32:17you can see that you know the level of

32:18improvements is a little bit uh it's

32:21hard to see because it's a small

32:22improvement we are sort of going to do

32:25this kind of testing of with and without

32:28for a few other uh travel demand

32:30strategies and then so when we meet on

32:33December 7th we're hoping to have a list

32:35of strategies that the town can consider

32:38that would help meet uh manage the

32:40travel demands.

32:42Next slide please. So as next steps the

32:46ones that we are looking at uh we we

32:49took a look at some of the reallocation

32:51there is there is one aspect of of

32:53Nantucket that is a little bit different

32:56which results in traffic

32:59um being at the levels that you see and

33:01that is most of the times

33:05um sorry a lot of the traffic travels

33:10much further than 2 and a half miles on

33:13the island. That is what we are finding.

33:15The average length of travel is about

33:17three three and a half miles. Um that

33:20would be one thing we'll be looking at

33:22next. That's what even Mike mentioned

33:24when we looked at this initials test is

33:26we got to look at a potential of you

33:28know can we try to make the trip length

33:31smaller. Again it may not be we may not

33:33be able to satisfy all of the needs for

33:37uh within a zone itself but can we just

33:41you know try to see if that we can

33:43reduce the length of trips maybe in the

33:45next that they might be able to go

33:47rather than go clear across the island

33:50uh into town. So that would be our next

33:52step is try to uh reduce the trip

33:55length. In addition, we're looking at uh

33:58some additional items like increasing

34:02transit. You know, that helps. We did a

34:04quick test on increasing let's say if we

34:07were to have um you know the transit uh

34:13service

34:15go more frequently and that does help it

34:18does uh help us in reducing vehicle

34:21miles travel. Let's say we start uh you

34:25know allocating some pricing on on

34:29parking you know with some park and ride

34:31lots. Yeah, we found that that helps you

34:34know because people will start moving

34:36towards uh instead of taking cars we'll

34:39be using transit system to use um you

34:42know to to travel to around the island.

34:46Um let's say we increase the amount of

34:49um bicycle and pedestrian accommodations

34:52when the um when additional housing is

34:55added uh when we create these village

34:58nodes. Maybe we give a little bit more

35:00emphasis on creating bike paths and

35:02sidewalks and that will increase uh

35:05amount of people who walk and bike uh to

35:08within their uh village nodes and that

35:11will also go towards reducing the travel

35:14demands. So we are our next step is to

35:18test out these different travel demand

35:20management strategy and see where it

35:22will take us at that point. Then you

35:25know beyond that we would then have to

35:27look at some capital improvement

35:29projects and that's another thing we are

35:30going to test. One is the roundabout uh

35:33improvements that are being proposed um

35:36the milestone rotary that we will test

35:38to see how much that would improve uh

35:40travel times. And there are two other

35:43connections that we are going to test.

35:45The milestone connector road and the

35:47Tacoma way extension. And so we will

35:50have results for these capital

35:51improvement projects and the travel

35:53demand management strategies at our

35:55December 7th meeting.

35:58The last slide please. Sorry. Oh yeah,

36:01these are the same the different travel

36:03management strategies that we that I

36:04just spoke about. Next slide please.

36:08So this is a quick uh this thing where

36:10we are September we are meeting now

36:12regarding the future scenarios. So we

36:15are going to do additional travel demand

36:16strategies and um meet again in December

36:20to have the select port presentation on

36:24uh and then while we are doing it in the

36:26month of November we will be submitting

36:28our report on all of the work that we

36:31have done on the travel demand model.

36:36That's all I had.

36:44>> Thank you, Madam Chair. Is there any

36:46questions at all from the commission?

36:47Uh, like I said, I think the the meat of

36:49a lot of this uh um work that's being

36:52done so far is going to be presented at

36:54that December 7th meeting. Uh I think we

36:57did show some some modest improvement

36:59with the land use strategies. Uh we'll

37:01continue to explore more of that, but I

37:03think the capital improvements might

37:04have even more of a of a uh demonstrate

37:07more of an improvement on delays in

37:09operations on uh the system uh at the

37:12December meeting. Uh any questions at

37:15all from the commission at all, Madam

37:16Chair?

37:18>> Um I don't have any questions. I just

37:20think you should make sure I felt like

37:23the most important part is is what we

37:26talked what you talked about at the end

37:27is really making sure people understand

37:30that um this is it's just a model but

37:33that our levers and where we really have

37:36the room to influence how this goes over

37:39the future is is what you're talking

37:41about at the very end of like if we are

37:44pursuing capital improvements and like

37:47having more of the bus service Like

37:49those are going to be the things that

37:50are going to make the difference in like

37:52improving bike path and bike access

37:55where like if you really want to think

37:57about what is going to impact reducing

38:00traffic like understanding which levers

38:02are going to be the best ones to use

38:04like I I just think if you emphasize

38:06that especially in the discussion at the

38:08select board because people are going to

38:11go all sorts of different directions but

38:13making sure people understand that like

38:15this is a model but we can change the

38:18direction if we're investing in certain

38:21things to help encourage certain

38:23behavior because I think like Nerda is a

38:25great example. People have seen how

38:27successful just by Nerda being free, how

38:31many people are using it and that is

38:33taking cars off the road. And so like

38:36just so people understand that and

38:38really understanding that like that's

38:40where the impact is going to come. I

38:42that's just my two cents, Christina. But

38:44there won't be a model for like the bus

38:47increase or anything like that. Those

38:49are just recommendations. Like in here,

38:51he'll have a model for the capital

38:53improvements and a model for

38:55>> um the land use, but there won't be one

38:59for the bus. Correct.

39:00>> I I don't think we would have it at that

39:02level of detail, but I think people

39:04should understand that those are the the

39:06levers that can help make a difference.

39:09And just two other things. Did they Did

39:11you present to the select board already

39:12in September?

39:14It says select word presentation in

39:16September.

39:18>> No, Madam Chair, I think that might have

39:19been a misprint. That should be NPDC

39:21presentation and then the December will

39:22be the NPDC select word presentation.

39:24But just uh if I could, Madam Chair, uh

39:27to Christina on the uh transit modeling.

39:30Um I think Sadier is kind of uh modeling

39:32some of the use of the transit system.

39:36uh we do have some ideas about a new

39:38route or two that could address some of

39:40these flows to to impact that and that's

39:43something we'll engage with sid here uh

39:45some subsequent efforts to um after we

39:48do some coordination with the NRTA to

39:50explore that and we would be able to

39:52model some of this uh and see what the

39:53ramifications would be of the of a new

39:55route or an increase in writership. Um

39:57it's hard to get much more than free or

40:00do much better than free transit. Yeah.

40:01Uh so I think we're we're seeing a lot

40:04of the benefits of that in the model

40:05already, but we could also try to

40:08incentivize writership through uh stop

40:11improvements. Um he can he can adjust

40:13those those those levers as uh the chair

40:15put it to see if writership goes up and

40:18then add new service and see what that

40:20looks like.

40:21>> Yeah. And I just want to support Aby's

40:23comment is that that's the focus and

40:25there's more maps of that kind of

40:28information um that will have more

40:30impact. I agree. I think people are

40:32going to like people see a number and

40:34think there's going to be 8,000

40:35[clears throat]

40:36new homes. Like people are going to zero

40:38in on that. And that's where I think

40:41>> we need to make the focus be on the

40:46levers that we can use to reduce the

40:51traffic.

40:52>> Yes. Um so um these models um are they

40:57not taking into account um the milestone

41:00rotary is that right

41:03>> or sorry the nobody milestone rotary

41:07>> I think you said that they were right

41:10here

41:10>> yeah no that's what we are right now

41:12this is on if you did not do any highway

41:14improvements what would the conditions

41:16be and so the next we are going to

41:19include we wanted to see first what uh

41:22just by doing travel demand management

41:24what you would get up to what point and

41:27then after that we will look at these

41:29capital improvements because I think you

41:31know as you saw these demand management

41:33strate only go a certain amount let's

41:35try to maximize it as much as we can and

41:37then the rest of it comes from capital

41:39improvement

41:40>> so it helps justify

41:42doing having this project

41:43>> exactly it's establishing the baseline

41:46and then by us saying hey if we do this

41:49if we do that that helps move things in

41:52All right, sir.

41:52>> All right. And then um I'm just curious

41:55about um the Tacoma extension or

41:57milestone protector. I know that this is

41:59like very preliminary, but can you like

42:01share any like ideas about it because

42:04those

42:06>> That's my idea like years ago.

42:08>> Yeah. I mean, I think the thought is

42:10really anywhere that we can connect

42:12roads and create more paths for people

42:14to get from point A to point B, it's

42:16going to better distribute the traffic.

42:18>> Yeah. And so those two particular

42:21locations

42:23um the milestone connector was very

42:26conceptually discussed probably a decade

42:28ago

42:30>> and at the time it was looked into. I

42:33think Mike was here then and just the

42:35traffic movements didn't justify further

42:38review then but now I think it's

42:39different and maybe it will which is why

42:42we're asking Sierra to look into that.

42:44And then the Tacoma connector, um, you

42:47know, that's already probably

42:49threearters of the way constructed in

42:51various degrees of construction. Part of

42:54it's public, part of it's not.

42:55>> People don't understand that it goes all

42:57the way through the state forest

43:01golf.

43:02>> Okay. But but that's something that, you

43:05know, it already connects one major road

43:09fairs to lovers lane, which has now been

43:12improved. Yeah. There's commercial and

43:14residential development all along the

43:17part that's there now. Um so it seems

43:19perhaps less impactful than looking at

43:22rugged road which is next door. Um

43:24that's just strictly through a

43:26residential area.

43:28So it's conceptual.

43:31>> Okay.

43:32>> Um and I had actually this is uh I had

43:35been speaking to somebody who was

43:36talking about and this might not be

43:38possible and I haven't looked at the map

43:40about taking old South Road and bringing

43:43it towards New South Road. I don't know

43:45if that goes through airport property,

43:47but it's like because it's like just the

43:51bottleneck of trying to get people out

43:53tough part

43:54>> like passing

43:57it

43:57>> like it would go

43:58>> like through all of the commercial

44:01property used to be laid out

44:03>> on plants but not

44:06like going across the wood.

44:09>> Oh

44:09>> yeah. So that's not

44:12>> stop sign everything will be fine.

44:18Yeah, but I mean there are plenty of

44:20places that we could look at connectors,

44:21but those are just two sort of obvious

44:23ones that are in the most congested area

44:26that people seem to have the most

44:27concerns about.

44:28>> Yes, definitely.

44:29>> Yeah.

44:32>> I think the [clears throat] village

44:34nodes um will peak some interest from

44:37people at at a certain point that will

44:40um they're going to want more

44:42information. And with all those small

44:45little things like the challenge is one

44:48is park you know is parking like how do

44:50you how do you park and when whatever a

44:53village node turns out to be whether

44:54it's a little convenience spot or coffee

44:57spot or or whatever. So a bit more on

45:00that stuff.

45:02>> Yeah.

45:04>> Yeah. I was going to just build on that

45:05for a second. It seems like some of the

45:06recent attempts of um you know low

45:08impact commercial uses in neighborhoods

45:11have been met with pretty strong

45:13opposition from the neighborhoods. So

45:16it'll be interesting to see um whether

45:19the tolerance level you know of people

45:22having to always go to the you know

45:24being stuck in the congestion of Mid

45:25Island versus being able to get you know

45:28a carton of milk two blocks away. you

45:31know,

45:33seems like there hasn't been much

45:35success. Like doctor's offices, example,

45:38I think mad is a really good example

45:40that they just have a really small

45:42market where it can get some basic

45:44things. So I do remember and Matt was on

45:46the point board then. I think there was

45:48quite a bit of opposition and concern

45:50and you know it's had its keeps but I

45:52think it's worked itself out is a nice

45:54amenity for that end of the island.

45:59Abby, can I madam chair? Sorry.

46:03>> This conversation is like makes my head

46:06explode because it's we're fixing stuff

46:08that's not that's unfixable. We're

46:10trying to fix things that you just you

46:12can't and I have enough history and I'm

46:14old enough Joe's old enough

46:20at the time where you've seen I remember

46:24when Dan Drake was fuming that this that

46:27the fast boats were killing the airport.

46:30That was like an hour ago. Killing the

46:33airport. Anyone think that the airport's

46:36being killed now?

46:38>> Hello. like just be quiet and wait for

46:42the next

46:45But the stuff that's been consistently

46:49the problem is we didn't know downtown

46:53was going to be the airport.

46:57Nobody knew. Wala didn't know. He

47:00planned a lot of things and did the

47:02greatest thing in the world fixing

47:03downtown, but no one knew the fast boats

47:06were coming.

47:07Nobody. like nobody ever talked about

47:10it. Okay.

47:14And I just in Old South Road, you know

47:16what the zoning was there? 1972.

47:21That was going to be a lot of

47:23development at some point. Bartlet Road,

47:27we staved off hotels and gas stations,

47:30but it's still high density because it

47:33was already high density.

47:36We fix miz and mast. Brilliant. By the

47:39way, I love that. It's But you can't

47:43make a convenience store like Cumberland

47:47Farms isn't going to just pop up in

47:49Scotson or pop up somewhere in a

47:52congested area. Just, hey, Scott, you

47:54guys, you want to build another store?

47:55What do you think it costs to do that?

47:58Like I mean we're lucky that we have

48:00what we have, but you can't you're just

48:04not gonna you're gonna get the the the

48:06places like I mean fish type stuff, but

48:08that's not what we're talking about. The

48:11fluffy stores are going to happen over

48:13time by themselves. They're going to

48:14close over here and open over there, but

48:16not you're not going to have cheap milk

48:19in Wisconsin. I can tell you that. That

48:21is never going to happen. So, I don't

48:23know why we even bring these things up

48:26because it's just impossible and

48:28somebody else writes the check. But

48:32the connective stuff, we're going to see

48:34Lover's Lane be

48:38what we talked about 10 years ago.

48:41The rugged road thing is definitely out

48:43in my opinion, except for a bike path. I

48:45think that's a 66 foot layout. It should

48:47be a bike path with a dirt road like Eel

48:50Point Road should have a bike path with

48:51dirt. I'm talking about the road path,

48:53not the bike path. There are a lot of

48:55things that can be done. The road along

48:57the bike path that goes through m

48:59through the,

49:01you know, between old south and

49:03milestone. That idea is really good, but

49:06it has to be one way. But that is a good

49:08something that we should be looking at

49:10down the road

49:12>> where you can take a right, zip through

49:15and come out [clears throat] milestone.

49:16Take a right. Have a good day.

49:18Completely avoid the rotary.

49:22But permitting and permaning and all the

49:25stuff it takes to put

49:28bar in the woods are probably going to

49:30be

49:32like negative, you know. So anyway, I

49:35mean, I appreciate all the work and the

49:37population numbers. I don't know where

49:38they're getting them from, but they're a

49:40little low up there. And I'm not one for

49:42exaggerating population, but that's the

49:44other way.

49:46There's no way sometimes 27,000.

49:48>> But let's if we put in a number like

49:5160,000.

49:52>> No, it's not 60 either.

49:56>> There's about 45 and so on. But

49:59whatever.

50:00>> And just to remind you as a side note,

50:02we do have the contract with Donahghue

50:06and they're working on a seasonal

50:07population estimate for different

50:10seasons, not just the peak season, not

50:12just the winter, but the shoulder

50:13seasons as well. And I think the

50:15timeline on that is sometime late

50:16January.

50:17>> Um, that's actually a good point though,

50:19Sudar, if we get that study from UMass,

50:23can we incorporate that updated data

50:25into this? That'd be great. And maybe

50:27because you're going to be presenting to

50:29select board and us in December. Maybe

50:32that's important thing to note that

50:33like, hey, this is preliminary, but we

50:36have this study coming so that better

50:38information is going to coming. So

50:40people also know that there's going to

50:43be more edits coming so we can like be

50:45dynamic with the information we're

50:47getting and continue to update and edit

50:49as we get better information. I think

50:51that might be good timing to just

50:53emphasize that.

50:54>> Y's point I I kind of disagree in some

50:57ways I feel like people will they go to

51:00Cisco or somewhere on that side or at

51:02the brewery or whatever when they're

51:04done they're going to prom. So they're

51:06not going to this stop and shop. They

51:08are buying there. It is packed. So and

51:11that's great

51:12>> because they have a lot of people that

51:13come in. Plus the bus route is going by

51:15there now. And it's kind of amazing how

51:18quickly that bus will go by and it's

51:20filled.

51:21>> Yeah.

51:21>> You know or Nerda coming the other way.

51:24But I mean free buses just been huge to

51:27>> Well, I I totally agree. I mean I'm

51:29thinking I was like even if there's just

51:30like a farm stand in Tomford, I'd love

51:34that. like just a farm stand so I can

51:36like go get a salad like whatever so I

51:38don't have to go to stop and shop and

51:39get

51:40>> who knows what produce you

51:42>> on the corner nobody at farm road and

51:44serves that

51:44>> yeah well exactly even if there was one

51:46on yeah the corn I mean those kids who

51:49sell lemonade on the corner Tom never

51:52and Milestone are crushing it all summer

51:56like it's not like they're there because

51:57they're not making money so to your

51:59point it doesn't even need to be

52:01anything big like I agree with you I

52:03don't think Cumies is going to come

52:06build a store on the corner, but

52:08whatever. Like even if it's a seasonal

52:10farm stand, I don't care. Something

52:11>> we used to Didn't Vas used to have a

52:14truck in Wisconsin?

52:15>> They do. They do.

52:16>> They still do now.

52:16>> Yeah. Okay.

52:17>> During the summer across the street from

52:20the um

52:21>> what what Joe was was saying is that's

52:24what I meant by the I meant I didn't

52:26mean to call Botless Fluffy, but you

52:28know what I mean. Like basic

52:32is the closest thing to a real grocery

52:34store on Nucket besides stopping track.

52:36I mean it they are really a grocery

52:38store for the

52:39>> Yeah.

52:39>> for the most part and it happened by

52:41itself over the last you know 20 plus

52:44years. So

52:46>> I think we have a lot of things that we

52:49think we don't you know what I mean?

52:51It's just that you're not going to see

52:54I didn't mean to say comies. You know

52:56what I mean? like something that's cheap

52:58inconset or somewhere else. That's just

53:00not going to I mean that's

53:01>> I don't think it's about cheap. It's a

53:02it's you know and and when when they say

53:06>> what are we talking about

53:06>> when they say no I don't think Cumbies I

53:10think mom and more like that market

53:14or or or incon something more manageable

53:19something that fits in not a freaking

53:22another cumbies anywhere. We had enough

53:24crumbies on this island.

53:25>> Just same number.

53:26>> More mom and stuff.

53:28>> No, you know what it really is. What

53:31everyone has. It's ice cream.

53:33>> We just need more ice

53:35>> because you got ice cream.

53:37>> Three scoops. You got ice cream

53:39downtown. You got ice cream in

53:41Wisconsin. You just need more places

53:43that sell ice cream at the kitchen. Yes.

53:47Everybody

53:48>> I see these ice cream stand. I'm just

53:50saying ice cream, lemonade, give the

53:54people what they want and that's

53:56>> no but I can see 167 they do so well. If

53:59they had more land they would be

54:01expanding. I think that they are

54:03handcuffed because of the size and space

54:05but they they found a larger space or

54:07some plot of land I could see him doing.

54:09He has a very successful business model

54:12and it's doing really well extremely

54:13well.

54:13>> Yeah. So I think if someone dropped one

54:16in Madak or whatever, you know, kind of

54:19locations, I I think they would do very

54:21well. I think that people would not want

54:22to come in sometimes. So

54:24>> Oh,

54:25>> and I and I know for two to three months

54:26I'm like, I don't want to go to stop and

54:28show.

54:29>> Not knocking them, but I know I can't

54:31get parking space and I'm going to go

54:32the other way. So

54:35>> brief.

54:36>> All right. Well, um, like we said, thank

54:39you, Sudier. We're going to the next

54:41iteration like we mentioned it's going

54:43to be in December the joint meeting on

54:45the 7th um with the select board uh as I

54:49mentioned I think we should just remind

54:52everybody we have the Donna Hugh study

54:53that'll be coming so this is kind of

54:55preliminary but we'll continue to be

54:58updated as we get better information and

55:00thank you again for um where everything

55:05and Mike the next item on the agenda I

55:09believe you're looking for a letter of

55:11support.

55:12>> Uh yes, Madam Chair. U last D if I could

55:16say just one last thing. If you like

55:17this type of planning discussion with,

55:20you know, I'm a planner. We have maps

55:21and charts. We love that stuff. That's

55:23all we produce. Uh if you like this

55:25medium for sharing a lot of this, we're

55:26happy to work on more of these and use

55:28this to evaluate area plans. I think the

55:30idea was that here to develop a model,

55:32we'd work with them from here on out. Uh

55:34just testing ideas and doing scenario

55:37planning. So, if you like this, uh,

55:39we'll continue doing it. Um, uh, for

55:43this letter of support from the

55:44Steamship Authority, this is very

55:45similar to, uh, a number of months ago

55:48where you, uh, approved a letter of

55:49support for a build grant application.

55:52Uh, this is the same project. It's a

55:54feasibility study for the Steamship

55:56Authorities Terminal, but it's using a

55:58different funding source called Protect.

55:59Uh this is uh we haven't heard anything

56:01on the build application grant

56:03application yet. So this is just another

56:06uh bite at the apple or try to fund that

56:07project. So I I would ask that the

56:09commission uh approve a letter of

56:11support and then madam chair I'll send

56:12you a document to sign and send it over

56:14to the steamships grant staff.

56:20Does anybody want to give me a motion to

56:22write a letter of support for the

56:24steamship authorities protect grant

56:26application for the new terminal

56:28building feasibility study?

56:31>> So moved.

56:32>> Second.

56:33>> Okay.

56:35Um motion by Liza, second by Joe. Roll

56:39call since Don

56:42>> Dave.

56:44Hi

56:45>> Nat.

56:45>> Hi

56:46>> Joe.

56:46>> Hi

56:47>> Christina. I

56:48>> Liza

56:49>> I Jesse

56:50>> I

56:51>> Mike I Don

56:53>> I

56:55>> the chair votes I. Thank you Mike again.

56:59Thank you staff for your support.

57:03All right, next item on the agenda, the

57:05annual town report. There was um Leslie

57:09sent around a draft of this

57:12report. It's the annual one that I

57:15believe it's printed when it comes out

57:17with town meeting.

57:18>> It comes out with town meeting and an

57:19annual report as part of your bylaws as

57:22well.

57:23>> So, this is really just updating

57:25everyone on everything that we have been

57:28doing over the past year. And like I

57:31said, um Leslie sent a draft if anybody

57:35does anybody have any questions,

57:37thoughts, concerns.

57:40>> I just read through it in the packet.

57:42Thank you for putting it in there,

57:44preparing it. You're

57:45>> welcome. I I this year I did change the

57:47format of it a bit. I mean, I think with

57:50the enabling legislation discussion

57:54that's been going on for a few years,

57:55we've really I think shifted to more of

57:57a focus about being the regional

58:00commission and less about being just

58:02like another arm of regular town

58:06business. So, I really tried to focus

58:09the content on, you know, what we're

58:11doing as a region, how we're supporting

58:13the region, what the commission and the

58:16staff have been participating in again

58:18as the regional representative, and then

58:21of course there's some day-to-day stuff

58:22in here as well. But, um, I think the

58:25the general content is a little bit of a

58:27shift this year.

58:30>> Yeah, I think it's great. I think it

58:32does reflect kind of like our focus.

58:34there's been a lot of work we've been

58:36doing as the RPA and there really has

58:37been more of a focus on the on the

58:40regional aspect.

58:43So with that, does anybody want to give

58:45me a motion to

58:48approve the report as drafted and send

58:52to town administration?

58:54>> So move madam chair.

58:56>> Second.

58:56>> Okay. Motion by Mike, second by Dave

59:00>> D.

59:01>> Nat. Hi

59:02>> Joe.

59:03>> Hi

59:03>> Christina.

59:04>> Hi

59:04>> Liza.

59:05>> I

59:05>> Jesse

59:06>> I

59:07>> Mike on your motion.

59:08>> I

59:09>> Don

59:09>> I

59:11>> chair votes I.

59:14>> All right. Um next item on the agenda

59:16and there was a draft of this in the

59:18packet. A comment letter regarding the

59:20natural heritage and endangered species

59:22program draft priority habitat

59:27map.

59:28It's a mouthful. Um,

59:31>> do you have any make those maps by the

59:34way? Like this crazy.

59:36>> Is this a thing down at the marina area?

59:38>> Yeah, I was going to say staff could

59:40give a little background.

59:41>> Put the map up.

59:43Yeah,

59:44>> it shows it's it's like it goes.

59:46>> So, I wanted townwide work group with a

59:50consultant talking about the changes and

59:53while I think a lot of them are maybe

59:56just standard shifts in priority habitat

59:59location, the fact that um the warfs

1:00:03have been included wararf, the boat

1:00:05basin and the the town warf basin area

1:00:08is really important for the commission

1:00:11to focus on. I drafted a letter

1:00:14>> um just today. I got some edits back

1:00:16from the town's consultant, Avalon.

1:00:20>> They're not really substantive efforts.

1:00:22Megan has them if you want to put them

1:00:24up on the screen. Um they're really more

1:00:26of I think refined boarding changes.

1:00:30And I think again like as the region is

1:00:33important to focus on the addition of

1:00:36the downtown warfs because it impacts

1:00:38transportation to and from the island.

1:00:39it impacts, you know, need the moving of

1:00:42people and freight and recreational

1:00:44boating. Um, it would just add an

1:00:47additional layer of permitting that it's

1:00:50my understanding

1:00:52>> further delay, you know, when there are,

1:00:54you know, repairs and maintenance and

1:00:56things that need to happen that, you

1:00:58know, are allowed to some extent under

1:01:00chapter 91, but would have an added

1:01:02layer of permitting under NHS.

1:01:06And so that's that's the focus of the

1:01:08comments I prepared for you.

1:01:10>> And I know I read the letter that um I

1:01:15think there was a letter that I want to

1:01:16say some of the private organizations

1:01:19have been sending. I think white

1:01:22elephant resorts sent a letter because

1:01:24most of the um war I think the concern

1:01:27is that by including us

1:01:30it the idea is to protect herbs.

1:01:34Not that anyone doesn't love turns

1:01:36either as anybody else. But I think that

1:01:38the concern is by making the shift there

1:01:41aren't it isn't a natural nesting space

1:01:44for turns. So it's like we're protecting

1:01:46them somewhere where we don't need to.

1:01:48And as Leslie pointed out, it's adding a

1:01:50huge burden to um to us as the town by

1:01:54adding that and it's not going to have

1:01:57this additional benefit of protecting

1:01:59animals that

1:02:01>> need protection in that area. developed

1:02:03property that's local but developed and

1:02:07active by the waterfront.

1:02:10>> Yeah.

1:02:11>> Christina to sorry

1:02:13>> I just have a quick question. Um so the

1:02:15letter was originally sent to the

1:02:18building

1:02:19inspector for whatever reason. Is this

1:02:21the only letter coming from the town is

1:02:23the one from the MTPDC or will there be

1:02:25other letters from

1:02:26>> there's going to be at least one other

1:02:27one because I'm on a work group that's

1:02:29sponsored by the town manager.

1:02:31>> Yep. Okay. So I know that will be going

1:02:33>> there'll be private organizations ours

1:02:36other departments that

1:02:39>> probably five or six department

1:02:40>> I mean this should be town I mean we can

1:02:42do it because of the state agency the

1:02:44land bank and nir and I mean

1:02:47>> well but like

1:02:48>> it should be everybody in my opinion

1:02:51like this in the in the steamship

1:02:53>> in the steamship right

1:02:55>> I mean they don't have any idea this

1:02:58this is a fresh new thing

1:03:00>> so I'm aware New inland development

1:03:02sending a letter.

1:03:03>> Yeah, I know. I saw that.

1:03:05>> The town manager will be sending a

1:03:07letter maybe through the select board.

1:03:08I'm not exactly sure how that's going to

1:03:10be structured. So, that would encompass

1:03:12all the departments. Um, you know, other

1:03:15elected appointed commission.

1:03:17>> Five minutes ago, we would go underwater

1:03:19and we got to raise the street six feet.

1:03:21Now, all of a sudden, we can't do

1:03:22anything. It's like kind of we're

1:03:24getting a little bit ridiculous, you

1:03:26know? I mean, it really is. So, the

1:03:27birds are nested in

1:03:29>> I mean the pigeons down at the steamship

1:03:31by the way, that's what's been down.

1:03:34They're still there. Same pigeons.

1:03:37>> I don't know why they're down there, but

1:03:39they are.

1:03:40>> Well, food. Um, with that being said,

1:03:43does anybody have a motion for me to

1:03:45sign this draft letter with the changes

1:03:48as provided by motion? So, committed.

1:03:52>> Okay. Motion by Davey, second by Joe

1:03:55Dave. Art Nath.

1:03:56>> I Joe.

1:03:57>> I

1:03:58>> Christina. I

1:03:59>> Liza. I Jesse.

1:04:00>> I

1:04:01>> Wright.

1:04:02>> I

1:04:02>> Don.

1:04:03>> I

1:04:07>> um the next letter

1:04:11by um

1:04:14we're going to talk about this. It's a

1:04:16comment letter regarding updates to

1:04:19760 CMR71

1:04:21protected uses ADU regulations.

1:04:25I need a lot of input letters tonight

1:04:27and I know in case anybody thinks we

1:04:30don't do anything, I'm gonna be losing

1:04:34a big story out. Yes.

1:04:36>> Um,

1:04:38>> so there were some changes proposed to

1:04:40the accessory dwelling unit regulations.

1:04:44Um, I guess the genesis of this is the

1:04:46intersection of seasonal communities

1:04:48with the ADU regulations, the two

1:04:50regulations and kind of pieces of it

1:04:52that were at odds with one another. So,

1:04:54so that um really was why these were

1:04:57reopened

1:04:59um for some revisions. So, in the letter

1:05:03I just, you know, wanted to thank OHLC

1:05:05for making those necessary changes. I've

1:05:07been very involved in the seasonal

1:05:09communities model bylaw work group and

1:05:11we really can't finalize our process

1:05:13until this little legislative fix moves

1:05:15forward. So, that was first and

1:05:17foremost. Um

1:05:20but you know it the changes that are

1:05:24being proposed it's my opinion that they

1:05:26could apply more broadly. So the two key

1:05:30takeaways as it applies to seasonal

1:05:32communities relates to affordability

1:05:35restrictions because the ADU regulations

1:05:37say you cannot limit occupancy. You

1:05:40cannot place any sort of restrictions on

1:05:42the protected use ADU. Um the updated

1:05:46language makes two key changes to that

1:05:49allowing municipalities to put into

1:05:52place affordability restrictions

1:05:54um and year-round restrictions, but it's

1:05:57only when there's municipal funding

1:05:58involved in the creation of these units.

1:06:00So, it's my opinion um and I hope you

1:06:03all share that same opinion um that

1:06:06these should apply more broadly. If

1:06:08we're designated as a seasonal

1:06:10community, I think that we should be

1:06:12able to put year- round restrictions or

1:06:14have the ability to as a community vote

1:06:16to put year- round restrictions on any

1:06:18ADU created, not just ones created using

1:06:21municipal guidance. Um, there's also

1:06:24some additional clarity that is needed

1:06:26for the affordability restrictions. it's

1:06:29just very vague and the way the language

1:06:32is phrased, it it almost seems like it's

1:06:34in conflict with its own purpose of

1:06:38edits. So, um that should be clarified

1:06:42in my opinion. And then the last key

1:06:45piece, um, and I should say preface this

1:06:48by saying the building commissioner

1:06:50intends to also submit a letter citing

1:06:52the more technical aspects of the

1:06:54intersection with the building code, but

1:06:56basically it boils down to how gross

1:06:58floor area is calculated. Um, and it

1:07:02counts unfinished basement space. So if

1:07:04you're pouring a crawl space um which

1:07:07you know is a similar price point to a

1:07:09full foundation if you go full

1:07:11foundation that takes away from your

1:07:12livable space that you could create. So

1:07:15you cannot create unfinished basement

1:07:17space to house mechanics, utilities,

1:07:21storage. So it it's you know become

1:07:24problematic at least in our community.

1:07:27Um, so I think while they have that

1:07:29definition open and these regulations

1:07:32open for public comment, um, that that's

1:07:35another area that that needs a little

1:07:37tweaking. So that is kind of the

1:07:39overview of what is included in your um

1:07:43in your public comment letter. Well, I

1:07:46definitely think we should give them our

1:07:48thoughts.

1:07:49>> Basement living is normal here. It's

1:07:52getting better now that we know how to

1:07:53insulate

1:07:54>> issue is it's like they don't understand

1:07:56our community. Like even like we're

1:07:57saying we need to be able to replace

1:08:00year round restrictions on these like I

1:08:03don't care about every other town.

1:08:05>> I know there's 351 and I don't care

1:08:07about all 350 but for us we need to have

1:08:10that capability

1:08:12>> and we just voted for the town meeting.

1:08:14I think the way that people develop off

1:08:16island like my uncle uh in way he's on

1:08:20better rock like they're blasting to get

1:08:23a foundation there. So they're not going

1:08:25to go down and do a full basement. We've

1:08:27>> we've uh finessed this thing. We've got

1:08:30it down to perfect and how to do it.

1:08:32>> Gentleman working for California goes

1:08:34basement living what the heck is that?

1:08:36So it was just unknown and worked about

1:08:39toxic gas. This letter was awesome. I

1:08:41was like this is great. This is exactly

1:08:42where we should

1:08:43>> I I agree. I think it's just like yeah

1:08:45off island like I grew up I don't think

1:08:47I

1:08:48>> most people didn't finish a basement

1:08:50most people basement flooded like

1:08:52basement living wasn't a thing but it is

1:08:55here and I think they just need to

1:08:56recognize that our community is

1:08:59different and we need some flexibility

1:09:00to make this work for us.

1:09:02>> Yeah.

1:09:03>> I think it should be up to the person

1:09:05constructing. Right. So it's if the

1:09:07point is to unlock the ability to create

1:09:10additional housing, this is creating a

1:09:12financial barrier to create some usable

1:09:14space and otherwise

1:09:16>> functioning.

1:09:17>> So just point of clarification because

1:09:18aren't they saying that if you put a

1:09:20full basement in then it it actually

1:09:22counts as livable space.

1:09:23>> Yeah. Whether it's finished or not. So

1:09:25it t it deducts from that 900 square ft

1:09:28that you can use.

1:09:29>> Specify that it's not you're not going

1:09:31to finish it. Then it won't we want it

1:09:34to not count against it. But I can see

1:09:36where they were like, well, you're

1:09:38saying that it's not finished, but then

1:09:39you're going to go finish it.

1:09:40>> The term finish is a very vague.

1:09:42>> So, that's just a little

1:09:44>> true,

1:09:44>> right? And an important distinction here

1:09:46is what's an actual basement and what's

1:09:50still a crawl space under the building

1:09:52code. It's actually like a very short

1:09:54height difference. Got

1:09:56>> that. Anything on a 66 is a crawl space,

1:10:00right?

1:10:00>> Yeah. Anything over 66 when Paul is

1:10:04reviewing these has to count towards

1:10:05that

1:10:06>> 900 that when the 7 is even level

1:10:10>> right

1:10:12>> but well it is that that it's a 66 below

1:10:16is a crawl space right

1:10:21>> but

1:10:22ceiling in and and with all the

1:10:24>> well you have to put a ceiling anyways

1:10:26because you have to protect the joist

1:10:28for fire. So that's is that triggering

1:10:30that to be a finished basement, right?

1:10:32That's kind of the

1:10:34>> Joe, what triggers the windows?

1:10:36>> What do you mean

1:10:37>> the big windows, metal grates and all

1:10:39that?

1:10:40>> Well, that's if you want to have a

1:10:42egress window, the better. That's what

1:10:43you have to have it meet the 20 x 24

1:10:46>> outside stairs. Every house has on that.

1:10:49Nobody's doing bulkheads anymore. They

1:10:51do the stairs with the door,

1:10:53>> the right thing. Everybody does it. that

1:10:57makes

1:10:59it easy when you say nonfinish versus I

1:11:02mean that is such a

1:11:05>> that's vague you know what I mean like

1:11:07>> but it's also creating your NG envelope

1:11:10right so a lot of

1:11:11>> we all need the envelope no matter if

1:11:13it's finished or not

1:11:14>> right so the right

1:11:15>> my point is is that you would have that

1:11:17exposure 8 in above the ground so a lot

1:11:20of people like to use closed cell the

1:11:22basement cuz that's your waterproofing

1:11:23as well on the inside so this but then

1:11:25you also want to cover that because of

1:11:26fire. So, you're not really finishing

1:11:28it, but it is

1:11:29>> it's finished insulation wise.

1:11:32>> Yeah.

1:11:32>> And and that's what was supposed to be

1:11:34doing.

1:11:35>> I think it's because there's a conflict

1:11:36on how you practically use an unfin

1:11:43sort of cleaned up. It makes it sound

1:11:45like

1:11:46>> it's an either or. It really isn't.

1:11:48>> But I 100% support what we're trying

1:11:50>> Yeah. I think this is great. We we have

1:11:52got to get out of this control thing

1:11:55that's happened. We like getting all

1:11:57these things. We were solving all this

1:11:59stuff and now

1:11:59>> but to Aby's point, there's 300 whatever

1:12:01you say.

1:12:02>> Yeah. But but no, but I'm saying the

1:12:04point is you told me so have ground

1:12:06cover analysis,

1:12:08>> right? So sometimes sometimes these

1:12:11>> the people that writing this are not

1:12:13going in every town. They're just like,

1:12:15"Well, I know. I know." And these

1:12:16communities and they should have come to

1:12:19us and said, "Hey, ADUs,

1:12:21you know, took it as treasury. Leave

1:12:24that alone. Leave them alone." But

1:12:25>> what happens?

1:12:27They don't care.

1:12:28>> But we'll have the opportunity by being

1:12:30seasonal community. We have a we have an

1:12:33ability to be distinctive.

1:12:34>> Yeah. Correct.

1:12:35>> And give them an outlet to say, "Okay,

1:12:37not just Nucket, but the seasonal

1:12:40communities can vineyard wants it, too."

1:12:42>> Yeah. the six towns on the vineyard,

1:12:44many of the Cape Towns, some of the

1:12:46Birkshshire towns, Rockport is the only

1:12:49Boston area seasonal design designated

1:12:52seasonal community. Um, but if the state

1:12:55is taking the time to to say that they,

1:12:58you know, saying that we need to be

1:13:02encouraging year- round housing

1:13:03production, not just housing production,

1:13:05which that's very different here, right?

1:13:07So the state policy goal is let's just

1:13:10increase housing production statewide

1:13:12but for us seasonal communities we need

1:13:14to zero in on yearround housing

1:13:15production not just housing for housing

1:13:17sake right so that that's the difference

1:13:21>> and the case towns must be they're like

1:13:24us in many versions but they're 10 years

1:13:27behind us in everything that's happened

1:13:29to us

1:13:30>> they should be all in favor of the same

1:13:32thing we're doing.

1:13:34>> Who wants to give me a motion? Motion to

1:13:36approve the comment letter regarding

1:13:38updates suspended 6 CMR71.

1:13:42>> Second.

1:13:43>> Motion by Mike. Second by Dave. Dave.

1:13:47>> Hi.

1:13:47>> Matt.

1:13:48>> Hi.

1:13:48>> Joe.

1:13:49>> Hi.

1:13:49>> Christina.

1:13:50>> Hi.

1:13:50>> Liza.

1:13:51>> I.

1:13:51>> Jesse.

1:13:52>> I.

1:13:52>> Mike. On your roof.

1:13:53>> Hi.

1:13:54>> Don.

1:13:55>> I.

1:13:57>> Chair votes. I

1:13:58>> guess.

1:14:00>> No.

1:14:02>> What you're encouraging. Um, so the

1:14:06expansion of that like so would that

1:14:08allow like any like the zoning board or

1:14:11planning board to someone's coming for

1:14:13relief

1:14:15to restrict like because it's not tied

1:14:17to financial assistance to restrict

1:14:19permit or protected use ADU. I know it's

1:14:22by right, but say they were coming for a

1:14:23different something else like um that

1:14:26they did require permitting on. So right

1:14:29now it cannot be restricted right under

1:14:32the proposed changes that the state is

1:14:34proposing. It can only be restricted

1:14:37under very limited criteria. The most

1:14:41significant of which is if there's some

1:14:42sort of municipal funding involved in

1:14:45the creation of the unit. So what I'm

1:14:46saying is, you know, the the seasonal

1:14:50community should be able to decide as a

1:14:52community, do they want to restrict all

1:14:55protected use to year- round occupancy?

1:14:58Oh, okay. Got it.

1:15:00>> Cool. All right. Uh, next item on the

1:15:03agenda, 2027 meeting schedule. I know it

1:15:07seems early, but before we know it,

1:15:09we'll be here. Also, you guys know we

1:15:11already were talking about our December

1:15:12meeting, so we're like almost there.

1:15:15So, staff, do you guys have a proposal

1:15:19for us or a proposal? I know we're just

1:15:22discussing. We don't have the calendar

1:15:24yet.

1:15:24>> Yeah, we didn't drop the calendar

1:15:26because

1:15:27Yeah,

1:15:28>> Leslie and I met with Abby and Mike and

1:15:31we talked about how um you know there

1:15:34are certain times in the year where is a

1:15:37monthly meeting frequency the best use

1:15:39of time? Um and does the commission want

1:15:42to maybe consider going to an every

1:15:44other month? Um there is a point of the

1:15:46year where Mike Burns can comment on

1:15:49those dates where monthly meetings will

1:15:51be required for some of the 3C updates

1:15:53that he needs to do. Um but before we

1:15:56presented a draft schedule for you all

1:15:58to consider, I just wanted to start with

1:16:00that conversation.

1:16:02>> Yes. Like it was March, April, May,

1:16:05June. Correct.

1:16:06>> Yeah.

1:16:07>> Uh correct. That's the quarter that we

1:16:08that's pretty much uh 3C season is for

1:16:11the TPW and LRTP.

1:16:14>> We'll need at the very least and those

1:16:16can be short meetings, but at the very

1:16:18least we'll need to meet to

1:16:20>> do that stuff. But like I know um summer

1:16:24sometimes it's tough for a lot of folks.

1:16:27>> The December one seems to make all the

1:16:29sense in the world because it's

1:16:30Thanksgiving and Christmas at the end

1:16:32and so just combining those makes

1:16:35>> Yeah, I agree.

1:16:37>> Um

1:16:38>> so we'd have like a combined

1:16:40>> I think the thought is maybe a combined

1:16:42one in November, December. We could do

1:16:45that going forward.

1:16:47um maybe not have we could have one in

1:16:50June and then

1:16:53in the summer if we need one. Why don't

1:16:56we look at you know the schedule in the

1:16:58office and what other things are going

1:17:00on, what deadlines the commission will

1:17:03have and then we'll put together a draft

1:17:05for you to consider December 7th.

1:17:07>> We just wanted to get feedback to see if

1:17:09you know generally people are open to a

1:17:11little bit of a flexible

1:17:13>> Yeah. schedule

1:17:15if anybody says no.

1:17:17>> Nope. I think it's good.

1:17:19>> Okay. All right. So, that'll be at our

1:17:22next meeting. All right. The next item

1:17:24on the agenda is um

1:17:29is executive session. So, I would take a

1:17:32motion to adjourn from open session to

1:17:37move to executive session. Not

1:17:41>> hold on, let me read it.

1:17:43Yeah. Um because we'll come back to

1:17:46>> No, we won't come back. That's why I was

1:17:48saying a motion to

1:17:51adjourn open session to go to executive

1:17:53session pursuant to general law. Chapter

1:17:5630A, section 21A,

1:17:59chapter 7, to comply with or act under

1:18:01the authority of any general or special

1:18:03law or federal grant requirements.

1:18:05Purpose 7, the open meeting law general

1:18:07law, chapter 30, section 22FG, to

1:18:11approve and review the Nucket Planning

1:18:13and Economic Development Commission

1:18:14executive session meeting minutes for

1:18:16the following dates, June 29th, and

1:18:20votes may be taken and we would I would

1:18:24take a motion to adjourn to go to

1:18:27executive session to not return to open

1:18:29session.

1:18:30>> I would make that motion.

1:18:32>> Motion by Dave.

1:18:33>> Second.

1:18:34Second by Christina

1:18:37Date on your motion.

1:18:38>> I Nat.

1:18:40>> Hi.

1:18:40>> Joe.

1:18:41>> Hi.

1:18:41>> Christina.

1:18:42>> Hi.

1:18:42>> Liza.

1:18:43>> Hi.

1:18:43>> Jesse.

1:18:44>> Hi.

1:18:44>> Mike.

1:18:45>> Hi.

1:18:45>> Don.

1:18:46>> Hi.

1:18:48>> Chair votes. I see you all guests. Thank

1:18:51you for

1:18:53>> Yeah. Just give me a moment to turn the

1:18:55recording off.

1:18:56>> Thank you. Bye. Bye.

1:18:59>> Thank you, Mike. Thanks.

1:19:03on and I want to make sure the screen is

1:19:07off.

1:19:07>> We have

1:19:09the minutes.

1:19:15>> Should um do you have a video now?

1:19:20>> Yeah.

1:19:21>> Yeah. Uh, well gone, still