2026-09-23 - Select Board

00:28Let me try that and we have two members

00:30online so we will be taking votes

00:33tonight uh and we'll accept the agenda.

00:39Okay.

00:40>> Second.

00:42>> All right. And

00:46and I'm and I'm chair because the two

00:48others are away. So it fell to me.

00:51>> Welcome Matt.

00:52>> Yeah. All right. So uh announcements

00:55Libby.

00:56>> Thank you. This meeting is v being video

00:58and audio recorded. We have round four

01:01of committee vacancies coming up. We

01:04have vacancies on cannabis advisory

01:06committee, coastal resiliency advisory

01:08committee, town of Nucket scholarship

01:10committee, and those applications are

01:12due by noon on October 2nd. Appointments

01:14will be made on October 14th.

01:17We have anformational

01:19meeting coming up about the Milestone

01:22Rotary intersection improvements and

01:24reconstruction. And this is sponsored by

01:25Mass Dot, Mass DOT, Department of

01:28Transportation. This is a

01:30virtualformational meeting and it will

01:32take place on September 29th at 6 PM

01:35online and you can register to attend.

01:37Links are on the select board meeting

01:39agenda. The draft 2026 master plan is

01:43available on the town website and open

01:45for public comment. There's a 30-day

01:47comment period through October 15th. And

01:51again, people can access that through

01:53the select board meeting agenda or just

01:55on the town website. And lastly, the

01:59planning and land use services

02:01department has a digital project for all

02:04of its files. This is an ongoing

02:07townwide digitizing document project.

02:10All the building files are scheduled to

02:13be removed from the plus offices on

02:15October 19th, resulting in a delay in

02:18access to files during that process. If

02:20you need a file, uh you should contact

02:23them and they can secure it for you. It

02:26may take a few days and we believe that

02:30the more current files will remain there

02:32for now, but it's the older files that

02:34are going to be digitized at this point.

02:36That's it for announcements.

02:38>> Okay. Do we have any select board

02:40announcements or comments to start

02:41tonight?

02:43>> I'm just going to make a comment about

02:45the pending storm this weekend. And this

02:48is my take, not national weathers, not

02:50the towns, but a lot of people have

02:52asked me. So, here it is. Uh, we've had

02:55three days northeast. The tide's come up

02:57in the harbor some, but not a lot. The

02:59big issue is going to be Friday night to

03:02Saturday morning because we have a full

03:06moon which means we have high tide at

03:08midnight and that's when the winds are

03:10supposed to be the strongest. We'll

03:12probably get some flooding down on Easy

03:14Street, possibly Washington Street and

03:16maybe some flooding on Bram Point. The

03:18big problem is is that they're talking

03:20about three to five inches of rain along

03:22with the storm which going to coincide

03:25with the high water which means the rain

03:26has nowhere to go. Um, the other issue

03:29is the trees still have leaves on them.

03:32The ground's going to be saturated from

03:33that much rain and there's a potential

03:34for down trees and some power outages.

03:38So, go to the grocery store, get what

03:40you need. I think the boats were

03:41cancelled tonight. The high speeds

03:43probably won't run again now till

03:45Sunday. We may get a slow boat tomorrow,

03:48but that's going to be it for a few

03:50days, guys.

03:52And if you're getting married this

03:53weekend, I'm sorry. Have fun. You can't.

03:58Thank you, Bobby. And I was I was one of

04:00the people thinking of Bobby when I saw

04:02the wind blowing down the harbor today

04:04when I was walking.

04:05>> All right. Uh

04:07>> can I just say one thing, too?

04:08>> Yeah. Sorry, please.

04:09>> Um y'all might have seen that

04:11Monahasset's bike path went in and the

04:13Lovers Lane bike path went in, and I'm

04:16very excited about that. I want to thank

04:18Drew for cracking on. Good job, Drew.

04:22>> Okay.

04:24Uh comments from September 16th. Uh this

04:28is Amy Elbridge asked about town

04:31enterprise funds and if there could be a

04:33separate sewer commission. The town

04:35response. The town has six enterprise

04:37funds. Airport, our island home, sewer,

04:40solid waste, storm water, water. The

04:43following town agencies have statutory

04:45authority subject to town meeting

04:46approval as needed over the funds.

04:49Airport, island homes, sewer, solid

04:51waste, storm water, water. The Nantucket

04:54Sewer Act allows for a separate sewer

04:56commission. However, to date that has

04:58not been undertaken. Campbell Sutton had

05:01asked comment on the use of free cash

05:03without a town meeting vote. The

05:05appropriation of free cash requires a

05:08town meeting vote. Campbell Sutton had

05:10asked about 0% state loan for the

05:12Somerset sewer project. And the town

05:15response is if the town is not approved

05:17for 0% loan, it'll be brought to the

05:19select board for review. And so that's

05:22it for the comments.

05:27Okay. All right. Approval of uh there

05:31were no new business that I know of. Do

05:33we have public comments tonight for

05:35something not on the agenda?

05:40>> How you doing?

05:42>> Um Clifford

05:44Yeah.

05:46>> Williams live at Somerset Road. Um, I

05:50saw a couple weeks ago we uh or you the

05:53committee in executive session voted for

05:55the deputy chief's police chief's

05:57contract. And why I bring that up is

05:59because about 10 years ago I was told

06:01that he was going to retire and I was

06:03trying to get rid of the committee of

06:06one that he's in or the union of one. Um

06:09I haven't seen his contract come up at

06:11town meeting. Uh I'm not really sure why

06:14or if it is. It's hidden in some other

06:16article. So, I was just looking for

06:18answers on why there's still a committee

06:20of one, why he hasn't retired, and why

06:24we don't vote on his contract anymore.

06:26>> Thanks. Thanks.

06:27>> Thank you, Clifford.

06:30>> Is there anyone else?

06:37>> Um, I'm Burton Balkine. I'm speaking as

06:40the president of the Nantucket Coastal

06:41Conservancy and um our board has asked

06:44me to um read the following to you.

06:48As you know, the conservation commission

06:51is currently addressing two erosion

06:52control projects on the public beach

06:55below the bluff and sconc. One is the

06:57replacement of the core installation

06:59below 79 and 81 Backaxster Road and the

07:02other is the repair of the current GO2

07:04placement of sand below 87 to 105 back

07:08road. We respectfully request that the

07:11status of each of these licenses for

07:13these two projects be discussed publicly

07:16as an agenda item in the upcoming select

07:18board meeting. It is our understanding

07:20that the license for the core was issued

07:22in 2008 with an explicit expiration date

07:25of 2010. We It is also our understanding

07:29that the license for the eventual

07:30construction of the current GO2 was

07:32originally issued in 2013 amended in

07:362018 and expired um when the underlying

07:39permit for the array issued by the

07:41conservation commission expired in early

07:432025.

07:45Before proceeding with any work, we

07:47believe that understanding the legal

07:48status of the licenses, which is outside

07:51the purview of the conservation

07:52commission, is essential, especially in

07:55light of the vote at annual town meeting

07:57in May of this year when the voters

07:59denied the select board authorization to

08:02issue a license to use the public beach

08:04below the bluff for erosion control

08:06purposes. Thank you very much.

08:09>> Thank you.

08:12>> You've got Mary Longacre online. All

08:14right, Mary online.

08:18>> Thank you, Mary Longacre. Um, I noted in

08:22the contracts to be approved the waste

08:24wizard and that reminded me uh unrelated

08:27to the approval of the contract. Uh,

08:29that's a feature on the town's website

08:31that directs the public uh how to

08:34dispose of various substances. And I

08:37think that could use a lot more uh

08:39public outreach and information. so many

08:42things change rapidly in the waste

08:44disposal field that um having having

08:47that tool I think is is fantastic. It it

08:49should be easy to update um on an item

08:52by item basis as needed. But you it's

08:54great for the public to see you know

08:56what are we supposed to do with this

08:58that or the other thing. Uh, so I just

09:00want to encourage people to take a look

09:02at the town's website, go to the solid

09:04waste uh, section under public works and

09:07use that waste wizard to uh, determine

09:10what to do with your odd items of trash.

09:13Thank you.

09:15>> All right, great. Thank you. Good

09:17suggestion, Mary.

09:19All right, anyone else?

09:23Okay, moving on.

09:26Uh, approval of minutes, warrants, and

09:28pending contracts. Do you want to do

09:30minutes and warrants first or do you

09:32want to do them all at once?

09:34>> Let's do first. I got to refuse.

09:36>> Okay.

09:39Any Do we have a motion on

09:41>> motion to approve the minutes and

09:42warrants?

09:43>> Okay. Second.

09:44>> Second.

09:44>> All right. Uh we'll do online first. Don

09:49>> I.

09:50>> Burke.

09:51>> I.

09:52>> Bobby.

09:53>> I.

09:53>> Jill.

09:54>> I.

09:55>> And I vote I. So that's unanimous. Okay.

09:57Okay. Now contracts

10:00which do we want to recuse or whichever

10:02you want to go through it. Yeah.

10:04>> Yeah. I need to recuse on the two for

10:07waste options just in interest of

10:09precaution. But

10:10>> right

10:12>> I did have a question

10:16about excuse me

10:19for Drew

10:22um or whoever excuse me let me um about

10:25the salt contract.

10:28Yeah.

10:30>> Drew would you like to

10:36Sorry. Um I just wanted to ask about if

10:39that's something that is is the water

10:42department okay with what we're using

10:44when we salt the roads.

10:47>> Yeah, we actually I met with Mark Wlette

10:50and um is it Emily from the Nant Atlanta

10:54Water Council last winter to talk about

10:55salt usage. Um

10:58it's not the most overly complex thing,

11:00but there's a lot of factors to

11:01consider. We primarily do pre-treatment

11:03and we tend to stay away from salting

11:06during heavy snow events for obvious

11:08reasons because we essentially just plow

11:10it off the road. So, we are very mindful

11:11of our salt usage. We also use a

11:12pre-treated road salt which is as

11:14effective as seven times that amount of

11:17nonp pretreated road salt, a regular old

11:19rock salt. Um, so, you know, we've

11:22talked about potentially near the public

11:24drinking water wells establishing um,

11:26you know, low salt zone or going to a

11:29brine. There's obviously capital

11:30investment required if we're going to go

11:32to a Brian solution, but it's something

11:33we're evaluating. So,

11:35>> I thought that might be why it was

11:36pretty expensive. So,

11:39>> uh I mean that that's just kind of a

11:41blanket on uh not on call, but kind of a

11:43not to exceed contract. A lot of years

11:45we don't spend nearly that amount.

11:46Obviously, we got a lot of uh snow last

11:49winter, so we did exceed that amount. We

11:50amended the contract through the winter.

11:52Um not surprisingly, we pay more than

11:55double what the mainland pays for salt.

11:56So that's just the unfortunate reality

11:58of barging it out here,

12:00>> man.

12:02>> Drew, where how much salt do we have

12:03now?

12:04>> So that's a good question. End of last

12:07year, we were uh I think $350,000 over

12:11budget, which required a transfer at the

12:13end of the year. So we did not fill the

12:14salt shed at the end of last season. We

12:17typically fill it at the end of the

12:18fiscal year at, you know, that day's

12:21pricing because obviously it would go up

12:22for the following season. We didn't do

12:24that in the spring. We did place an

12:25order. It was supposed to be here

12:27tomorrow. They obviously canceled the

12:28barge, but we are still getting last

12:30year's salt pricing for now. So,

12:33>> we plan on having the shed filled here

12:35in the next month though.

12:36>> Yeah, I would probably say next week to

12:38be honest and then it'll be full for the

12:39season.

12:39>> I know last year with all the storms we

12:41got pretty low at one point. So,

12:43>> yeah. Yeah.

12:44>> Okay, great.

12:45>> Okay. Motion to approve the contracts

12:48with the exception of the two DPW

12:51contracts.

12:52>> Wait, which ones are you recusing from?

12:54the one for waste options and

12:55>> waste options. Both of them two waste

12:57options.

12:58>> It's only one for waste options.

12:59>> So, one or two.

13:00>> Well, one was the software, the waste

13:03wizard.

13:04>> Okay. So, it still says Yeah,

13:07>> it's not with waste options, but

13:09>> Well, excuse me. Solid waste.

13:12>> Matt.

13:13>> Matt.

13:14>> Okay. Yes. Let me

13:16>> um Did you have a question about the um

13:19sprinkler system?

13:20>> I I do, but All right. Well, yeah. My

13:23I'll ask it then that my I had a

13:25question about the sprinkler was 488 and

13:29it was when was it like 15 years ago and

13:33I I looked at it and it was saying uh

13:36that it sounds like it was 60 ft of

13:38sprinkler that's already rusty and I'm

13:40thinking how can that have happened

13:43already in this pretty brand new

13:46building. So that was my question.

13:50We have someone online, I think, to

13:52answer that.

13:55>> Oh, yeah. Charlie Gibson is online.

13:58>> I can answer that.

14:00>> Uh, that uh issue is not uh a rusted

14:04pipe per se. It's actually a galvanized

14:06pipe. It's a result of defective

14:11Chinese piping that uh was installed

14:15uh originally back in 2010.

14:18the we weren't the only uh victims of

14:21this piping having a problem. Uh

14:24Nantucket Golf also had which was

14:26constructed about the same time had the

14:28same issue and they had to replace all

14:30their piping. Uh it's not rusting like

14:33you'd think of a piece of steel rusting

14:36on the exterior, but it's microscopic

14:40pores on the inside of the pipe finally

14:42leeching through the galvanized coating

14:46and causing a pinhole. Uh, and then

14:49that's what's causing the leak. So, it's

14:50not, you know, what you'd typically

14:52think of, something just rusting in

14:54place. If you looked at the pipes, it

14:56would look fairly new, but there's

14:59little tiny pin holes caused by air that

15:02was in the uh forming process when they

15:06made the pipe that you couldn't really

15:08see because it's rusting. Those pores

15:10are rusting from the inside of the pipe

15:12to the outside. And that just took 16

15:16years. and some of those things have

15:18migrated through. Uh we've put some

15:21patches on it over the years, but uh

15:24this past uh leaks are pretty extensive.

15:27Now,

15:30>> a follow up on that, Charlie. Does that

15:31mean that there's potentially more pipes

15:33here that are going to this situation?

15:37>> Yes.

15:37>> And are they all are they sort of are

15:39they in the wall so when they replace

15:42it, they've got a you know, or is it

15:44relative? We were lucky with this 60 ft

15:47section cuz it's in an overhang. Um,

15:49basically on the outside is the dry

15:51system which is full of air, not water.

15:54Um, the piping that's in the building is

15:57is wet. So it's u so it hasn't had any

16:02problems. So this is ne to spin in the

16:04dry system which is because of freezing

16:06it's full of air and then when it's

16:08called for to be used the air goes out

16:12and then water replaces it. But um it's

16:14been on a dry system that's been having

16:16this problem. Um so yeah, we don't know.

16:20Um hopefully not. It's all I can say.

16:23Okay, great. Yeah, I'm fine. I'm fine

16:26with it. Thank you. So So we

16:29[clears throat] have a motion from

16:30Bobby. Do we have a second on every

16:32>> second? Second. Okay. All right. All

16:35those in favor?

16:36>> I

16:37>> I

16:38>> and online

16:39>> I.

16:41and

16:42>> and Brooks and I.

16:43>> And Brooks and I and I vote I. Okay. And

16:46>> so I'll move approval of the two waste

16:48related uh contracts.

16:51>> Okay. A second.

16:51>> Second.

16:52>> And Bobb's got a second. All right.

16:54Brooke

16:55>> I.

16:56>> Don

16:57>> I.

16:58>> Bobby.

16:58>> I.

16:59>> And I'll vote I. And that's 40.

17:04>> One. Yep. With one abstension.

17:09Okay.

17:11All right. Citizen Department requests

17:14requests for select board resolutions to

17:16authorize town manager or deputy town

17:19manager to file applications for execute

17:21agreements regarding perform any and

17:23other actions to secure the town in

17:26grants or loans planning and

17:29construction of water pollution

17:30abatement projects.

17:32Do you want to talk to that Libby?

17:35>> Sure. These are standard um resolutions

17:39that are required basically from the

17:41state for um the the Somerset sewer

17:45project for the state revolving loan

17:47fund. And do we have uh Dan Sheen from

17:50Wesson and Samson is online if the board

17:52has any specific questions, but you

17:54probably have done this before for other

17:56projects that we have used the state

17:58revolving loan fund for.

18:00>> Yes. Yeah, we Yeah, we did it. Uh anyone

18:04have any questions? No, I'll move

18:06approval.

18:07>> Have a second.

18:10>> Second.

18:11>> Okay. Right. Let's start online. Uh

18:14Brooke

18:15>> I.

18:16>> Don

18:17>> I.

18:17>> Bobby.

18:18>> I.

18:19>> Jill.

18:19>> I.

18:20>> I'll vote. I. So that's approved. Okay.

18:23Number two, Natural Resource Department

18:26Review of Coastal Resiliency Districts.

18:29>> Mr. Chair.

18:30>> Yes.

18:30>> While Vince is coming up, I just wanted

18:32to give a tiny bit of background on

18:34this. At the 2024 annual town meeting,

18:36town meeting approved a bylaw to

18:38establish coastal resiliency districts.

18:40However, a companion home rule petition

18:42to authorize those was tabled

18:44indefinitely. Subsequently, the board

18:46has had some discussion during the uh

18:50review of potential articles for annual

18:52town meetings as to what information it

18:55might need in order to reconsider

18:57potential resubmitt of the home

18:59petition. So Vince has been doing a lot

19:01of work in that regard and has a

19:03presentation for you.

19:05>> Um thank you uh Vince Murphy from the

19:06Natural Resources Department. And to

19:08just further go over what Libya is

19:09talking about, um I think it was in

19:11January the um coastal resilience

19:13advisory committee also uh chose not to

19:16move forward with the home petition any

19:18further. They wanted to see how this

19:19current action plays out first. That's

19:21the abridged version. So um online we

19:24have um Katie Duskin from Arcadus and

19:28Kate Edwards from Arcadus who are going

19:30to give you u a presentation on the

19:33coastal resilience districts and the

19:35framework that we've been working on to

19:36get this uh together. This has been

19:38through several rounds of review the

19:40coastal resiliency advisory committee

19:42and um as Libby said there's a

19:44background in slide in this as well uh

19:46that explains the history of how we got

19:49to this point uh from when it was first

19:51brought up um uh in a I think it was a

19:54joint meeting between the select board

19:55and the coast regency advisory committee

19:57uh when we were looking at funding for

19:59projects because that's in essence what

20:01this is is a funding model for smaller

20:03projects and um how it was uh brought

20:06forward as a town meeting article, how

20:09it passed and then how we get towards

20:11implementation. That's what the memo and

20:13the presentation are about today is

20:14working towards implementation for small

20:16projects. Um uh if I might, Eric, I

20:19could make sure that um Katie Duskin is

20:22able to speak

20:24and through you, Mr. Chair, I could pass

20:25it to Katie Duskin.

20:26>> Okay,

20:27>> Katie.

20:29>> Good evening. Thank you for having me.

20:31Um if you want to go to the agenda

20:32slide, wonderful. Thank you. So today,

20:35as Vince been said, we'll provide an

20:36overview of Coastal Resilience District

20:38as well as work completed today over the

20:40past year or so and present the final

20:42implementation framework for um

20:44feedback. And I I'll get to this at the

20:47very end, but you know, our request is

20:50um that the select board uh provide

20:54their um

20:56their endorsement of the framework

20:58today. Thank you. Next slide, please.

21:02So coastal resilience districts as an

21:04overview are a funding mechanism for

21:06localized coastal resilience projects.

21:09They are they provide the town with a

21:11regulatory and funding model for

21:13specific island areas. As Vince said,

21:15smaller coastal resilience projects that

21:17will benefit from these interventions.

21:20And um really the focus here are

21:22projects that disproportionately benefit

21:24localized areas within the municipality.

21:28Eligible eligible projects include those

21:31that will mitigate risk from coastal

21:33hazards specifically. So that would be

21:35erosion, flooding, imminent sea level

21:36rise and shoreline change. Um and there

21:39is a requirement that they must benefit

21:41a public asset such as a town beach

21:43access point etc. So if a project only

21:45benefits private resources, that project

21:47will not qualify for coastal resilience

21:49districts.

21:51The final requirement for eligibility is

21:52that it must benefit existing structures

21:55rather than enable or support future

21:57development. Next slide, please.

22:02There's several benefits that come along

22:04with um implementing this approach. Um

22:06it's flexible, so it's a new pathway to

22:09fund resilience projects above and

22:10beyond what exists in the capital

22:12program. It's targeted in that it

22:14provides a way to connect the cost of

22:16specific coastal resilience projects to

22:18those specific properties that benefit

22:20and therefore it's fair because of that

22:22connection to those properties that

22:24benefit. Residents who benefit the most

22:26can contribute the most. So altogether

22:29what this provides is an alternative and

22:31additive funding mechanism to the

22:33capital program that will protect

22:36existing housing. Um and it will benefit

22:38those who benefit will pay the most for

22:40the project which means that it

22:42proportionally reduces burden to the

22:43town to pay for these really important

22:45coastal resilience projects. Next slide

22:48please.

22:51Existing authorities that enable us to

22:53be considering this as a funding

22:55mechanism. So first is Massachusetts

22:56state law. Um so Massachusetts does

22:58allow communities to charge betterments

23:00or special property taxes to property

23:02owners for the cost of public

23:04improvements. And this is typically done

23:06for water or sewer or similar

23:07infrastructure projects. But there is

23:08plenty of precedent for this type of

23:11funding mechanism um specifically

23:12through betterments or special property

23:14taxes. The gap here is that

23:16Massachusetts currently lacks a general

23:18law that specifically authorizes

23:20municipalities to create coastal

23:21resiliency districts. And so that gap

23:24was filled by the passing of the bylaw

23:26in 2024

23:28which gives the town authority to define

23:29the boundaries of a coastal resilience

23:31district for a given project. And then

23:33that project may be paid for by those

23:35who will benefit from that the

23:37protection that that project provides

23:39where the amount of payment for each

23:42beneficiary aligns with the proportion

23:44of benefit received.

23:47Next slide please.

23:51A brief timeline and background on work

23:54done to date. So the conversation on

23:55coastal resilience districts really

23:56began in 2023 when they first emerged as

23:59a potential funding model at the

24:01neighborhood level uh for engagements on

24:03neighborhood resilience projects and was

24:06first brought to the select board as a

24:08key outcome of those recent engagements.

24:11The conversation continued in 2023 as

24:14coastal resilience districts were

24:15presented to crack and crack asked to

24:17pursue both both the bylaw and the home

24:19rule petition. Over the next several

24:22months, text was reviewed and approved

24:23by Crack and the Select Board. And at

24:26the May 2024 annual town meeting, the

24:28home rule petition bylaw um did or the

24:31home petition did not pass, but the

24:33bylaw was approved.

24:36After that, in late 2024 through 2025,

24:38the town began to look at how we could

24:40advance projects through this funding

24:43mechanism um with the authority provided

24:46by the bylaw, particularly through

24:48public education, and considered whether

24:50or not we should bring back the home

24:51rule petition um as a way to further

24:53advance uh the authorities on this this

24:56topic. In December, um, Crack

24:59reconsidered the issue particularly of

25:01home rule petition and decided to table

25:02it for now, um, with the focus on

25:05implementing a project using the

25:06existing authorities provided by the

25:08bylaw.

25:10And since then, we've been working on

25:12developing an implementation framework.

25:14So, answering the question of how

25:16exactly would this happen? Um, how would

25:18it get implemented for a project? And we

25:20presented this framework to crack in

25:23July and are now um, sharing it with you

25:25all today.

25:27Next slide, please.

25:31So, to jump into some definitions and a

25:32bit more detail on what it really means

25:34to be a coastal resilience district, the

25:36bylaw defines two types. The first is

25:38the islandwide coastal resilience

25:39district, which is designed for projects

25:41that have islandwide benefit. And the

25:44second are the subdists, which may be

25:46used for selected neighborhood level

25:48projects. And so, this is for projects

25:50who are more which are more localized,

25:52have defined geographical boundaries and

25:54areas of benefit. Next slide please.

26:00So in the near term um we the town

26:02recommends that these projects that are

26:04the islandwide benefit projects the

26:06ICRDs would continue to proceed through

26:09the capital program for funding um

26:11because they have this well-established

26:12funding program that's effective. The

26:15the focus would be on the coastal

26:18resilience subdists in the long term. It

26:20can absolutely be a long a longer term

26:22additive funding mechanism to either

26:24increase the total funding that's

26:26available through the capital program or

26:28perhaps provide additional flexibility

26:30for projects that need kind of a

26:31different alternative funding mechanism.

26:33So something that could be added added

26:35capacity in the long term. Next slide

26:38please.

26:41And so for the rest of today's

26:43presentation and the current

26:44implementation focus, we're really just

26:46looking at these localized projects for

26:48subdists. that's what we'd like to

26:50progress in the near term.

26:52Next slide, please.

26:56This slide provides a conceptual example

26:59of what a subd district or coastal

27:02resilience district could look like. So,

27:04quick overview. We have a coastal area.

27:06As I said, it's conceptual. So, this is

27:08not tied to any specific area, any

27:10specific project or any specific hazard

27:12risk. Um it the a good way to think

27:14about it is it could be a flood

27:16reduction project or it could be an

27:18erosion prevention project. And the

27:20project is represented by that orange

27:22bar that goes across the front of the

27:24beach area.

27:26The area behind the orange bar, the area

27:28of protection is delineated by the

27:30dotted line. And everything within that,

27:33the homes, the the different assets, the

27:35public infrastructure, all of those are

27:37within the area of benefit or protection

27:39from this potential project. anything

27:41outside of that project does not outside

27:44of the area that's donated there does

27:45not receive any protection and is

27:46therefore outside the coastal resilience

27:48district.

27:50Um, a couple things to note about the

27:52beneficiaries within the coastal

27:54resilience district. As I noted, one of

27:56the eligibility requirements is that

27:58there are there is some level of town

28:00interest that's being protected. So, in

28:01this case, it's a public parking public

28:03beach access that will benefit from the

28:05protection provided by the project

28:07making this eligible for a coastal

28:08resilience district.

28:11The homes in the image are divided into

28:14two sections. Primary beneficiaries and

28:16secondary beneficiaries.

28:18So the primary beneficiaries are will be

28:21so these two definitions will be set

28:24depending on each individual project. So

28:26this is not something that is set up

28:28ahead of time. It's one that's

28:29considered and approved by the select

28:30board for each individual project that

28:32would move through this framework.

28:35Primary bene beneficiaries are those

28:37that receive a greater degree of

28:39benefit. Perhaps they are physically

28:41closer to the risk area and therefore

28:43have greater risk. Um secondary

28:45beneficiaries receive a lesser degree of

28:47benefit from the project. Um and the

28:49idea is that it's really important to

28:51define these two different um types of

28:53beneficiaries because the amount that is

28:56going to be contributed or paid for by

28:59um each property should reflect the

29:01degree of benefit received especially

29:03when there's um for certain projects

29:04where there's a great degree of

29:06variation and risk.

29:09So the question that we then answered

29:11next was how do we turn this conceptual

29:14idea into a framework that could allow

29:17um an actual project to move through

29:19this funding mechanism. So we have this

29:21on the next slide please.

29:26Thank you.

29:27So, we've come up with a six-step

29:29process that defines kind of the steps

29:31that could be taken by the town to bring

29:34a project through this process of

29:37getting it set for payments um to be

29:40funded through through a coastal

29:41resilience district. So the first step

29:43is to initiate where a project is

29:45brought forward by either the town or

29:47community members as a candidate for

29:48funding and then the approval process

29:51begins where the town reviews the

29:52project for eligibility as a coastal

29:54resilience district and if eligible that

29:56project is then categorized as

29:58islandwide or subdist and then it

30:01proceeds through crack review and

30:03recommendation to select board and

30:04select board has the final decision on

30:06whether this specific project would move

30:09forward under this framework. network.

30:12If it is approved, this would kick off

30:14public engagement within the area

30:17surrounding the project. It's important

30:19to note that at this stage, the area of

30:22beneficiaries of of risk reduction for

30:24the project has not been set. And so,

30:26the question of who pays is not part of

30:28this engagement. At this point,

30:30engagement will focus on the importance

30:32of the project and the proposed solution

30:34and gaining early feedback from the

30:36surrounding community.

30:40Step four, the town determines who will

30:42benefit. So, um this is where the

30:43boundaries of the subdist will be drawn

30:46based on the hazard area, specifically

30:48what area is at risk, where will risk be

30:50reduced, and therefore who is benefiting

30:52from the project. Um and this will begin

30:55legal discussions related to the setting

30:57of betterments.

30:59Um although I will note that setting of

31:00betterments won't happen till step six

31:02at the end.

31:04The project at this point will be

31:06brought to annual town meeting both for

31:08approval of the appropriation of the

31:10initial funds and for approval of the

31:12use of betterments to fund the project

31:14within the mapped coastal resilience

31:15district and the mapped coastal

31:17resilience district will be shared at

31:18annual town meeting um that was written

31:20into the requirements of the bylaw.

31:23Final step is allocation. So if it makes

31:26it all the way through at this stage if

31:28it's approved the select board will

31:29consult legal support and set the

31:31betterments according to Massachusetts

31:32state law. So it's at this final stage

31:34that um who pays and to what um amount

31:37will be set.

31:41Next slide please.

31:45Wanted to spend um just an extra moment

31:47on public engagement.

31:49Um so as I mentioned engagement will

31:51happen early before the beneficiaries

31:53and betterments are proposed. It's

31:54focused on the important of the prop of

31:56the project and the proposed solution.

31:58And the map we developed here is meant

32:00to be an internal map to kind of guide

32:02those early engagement efforts. Um these

32:06areas align very broadly with the

32:07coastal resilience plan and the

32:10boundaries are very deliberately

32:12overlapping. The idea is that engagement

32:14is an inclusive process and will focus

32:16on the areas surrounding the project. So

32:19focusing on on folks who live nearby the

32:22projects and stakeholders within those

32:24areas. um but is certainly not limited

32:27by any means um to to people directly

32:29adjacent to the project.

32:32Next slide, please.

32:34One piece of feedback we heard very

32:36strongly from Crack earlier this summer

32:38was that drawing those boundaries of

32:41kind of those different community

32:42neighborhood areas might generate

32:44confusion about with the boundaries of

32:47coastal resilience districts and

32:48therefore who pays. And so since we

32:51really want to remove that early public

32:52engagement from the conversation of who

32:54pays, it was Crack's recommendation that

32:56we combine all of those areas into a

32:58general coastal area. So um this would

33:01be the map that is shared publicly um to

33:03make it very clear that this is this is

33:06really where we expect these types of

33:08projects to exist. Um but it's not tied

33:11in any way to um to who is within the

33:14coastal resilience district and who

33:15pace. So, a key piece of feedback we've

33:17incorporated since um presenting to

33:19Cracker earlier this summer.

33:23Next slide, please.

33:26So, this is where we are today. We've

33:28been collecting input this summer and

33:30tonight and uh our team will be

33:32delivering final materials to the town

33:33this fall. Um the the draft memorandum

33:37is complete and this provides an

33:38overview of coastal resilience

33:40districts. It summarized the research

33:42we've completed and outlines this

33:44implementation process, the six-step

33:45process in more detail. There is a

33:48public engagement deck, which is a

33:50standard slide deck that includes much

33:51of the same information we've shown here

33:53today. Um, just a sta a starting set of

33:56slides to support any future outreach

33:58and engagement on the topic. And then

34:00finally, a benefit framework um will

34:03accompany these deliverables. This is a

34:06flowchart style decision tree that can

34:08support the town in determining who

34:10benefits because that question of who

34:12benefits is very highly tied to hazard

34:14risk and therefore varies depending on

34:17each individual project based on the

34:19hazard type, based on the project type,

34:21where you're located. And so, um, it

34:24turns into a complicated question. And

34:25so that decision tree will help guide

34:27the town through making that decision in

34:29a way that is um standard

34:31[clears throat] across projects and

34:33provides a defensible hazard and

34:35database backbone for defining the

34:37boundaries of the coastal resilience

34:38districts.

34:41And next slide please.

34:46Great. So our request to you today um is

34:49to endorse the framework or provide

34:51feedback and um the next steps would be

34:55for legal to review the framework and

34:57deliverables. So finalization of these

34:59items and then to move forward the town

35:02would set up the coastal resilience

35:04oversight team through the coastal

35:05resilience coordinator and then move

35:08forward with the selection process. So

35:10that would be steps one and two initiate

35:12and approve would kick off at this

35:13point. Um, so the coastal resilience

35:16district oversight team led by the

35:18coastal resilience coordinator would

35:19confirm project eligibility and bring it

35:22to crack for review and recommendation

35:24and select board would have the final

35:26decision on moving that project forward

35:28for funding through this mechanism.

35:32So that wraps up my slides. I think

35:35we're this was an extra slide. We're all

35:37set here. Um, so thank you very much.

35:39Any questions?

35:40>> All right, Katie, thank you very much.

35:41Do we have any questions, comments?

35:48Joe.

35:49>> Uh, I have a number of questions, but

35:51let's start with the CRD, the the group

35:55that's going to oversee these projects.

35:58Um, who's who's going to make up the

36:00CRD?

36:02>> I can slide before. I think that's what

36:04I

36:05>> Right. Yeah.

36:05>> Right.

36:07>> Vince, do you have it?

36:08>> Yes. Thank you. So, primarily it'll be

36:10the coast resilience coordinator. That's

36:12not me. I'm the post resilience

36:14coordinator Leah Hill um she'll be back

36:17um from a directive um in the next few

36:19weeks or so and um she will be in charge

36:23of that together with uh some other uh

36:26staff members and representatives of the

36:28coastal resilience advisory district uh

36:30coastal resilience advisory committee.

36:32It may also if you choose have a

36:33representative from the select board.

36:35>> Okay.

36:38So,

36:40um, the best way for me to kind of

36:42understand this is to maybe use some

36:44existing examples because I feel like

36:46we're already doing some erosion control

36:48projects on the island that you're doing

36:51an amazing job with, fence,

36:52>> you are, and you've taken me around the

36:54island and I've looked at all these and

36:56I just want to

36:57>> again uh thank you for that because that

37:00was an excellent education that I got.

37:02But Sheep Pond Road,

37:04>> yep,

37:04>> we have that project and the homeowners

37:06are paying for that now. Correct.

37:08>> Right.

37:09>> We can't call that a betterment because

37:11that's a legal term, but they're paying

37:13for their own road and other people are

37:15not able to

37:17>> No, it is a better

37:18>> actually. It's actually called it we're

37:21allowed now to do abment for

37:22infrastructure.

37:23>> Okay. But they're paying those

37:25homeowners are using that money for

37:27their road.

37:28>> Yeah.

37:29>> Yes. Um the difference there is the town

37:32doesn't necessarily own any of the road

37:34there anymore. We have moved out of the

37:36area. the town ways are effectively or

37:38the town owned ways are effectively

37:40gone. It would be a poor example. A

37:42better example, if you don't mind me

37:44looking down.

37:44>> Well, no. I I just want to say that we

37:46I'm just saying we have we're doing it

37:48now. They're they probably wouldn't

37:50qualify because there's not a public

37:53Right. That's what I saw in the

37:54presentation. They probably wouldn't

37:56qualify. Um,

37:59but if they were in one of these

38:01districts, if I lived there, I might

38:03say, "Well, you already put me in one of

38:05these districts, so I feel like I should

38:06apply for my project to be considered."

38:10>> Right?

38:12>> So, in essence, um, this is a tool where

38:16homeowners uh can approach the town or

38:18the town can approach homeowners, vice

38:19versa. And let's use Codfish Park as an

38:22example where there is a town owned way

38:25um in Codfish Park, Gully Road. So if

38:28you imagine coming down there, we got

38:30two town beach access points and a town

38:33way and I think some town property that

38:35the town owns the beach. If the

38:37homeowners approached the town and said,

38:39"All right, we want to do um some dune

38:41restoration to stop our area flooding or

38:43to keep the ocean out or whatever it

38:45happens to be." That is a great example

38:48for what might be a coastal resilience

38:49district. Another good one could be in

38:51Madakquette um along Ames Avenue where

38:53we have a road intersection that is

38:55threatened um that could be another good

38:58one but that creates a different set of

39:00problems because there's more homes down

39:02the road. So do you apply it to the

39:04people across Milliey's Bridge as

39:05secondary beneficiaries that has to

39:07would have to go through the assessment

39:08to figure that part out. Um then outside

39:11of the CRP this can also be applied.

39:13This is not just for CRP projects.

39:15Imagine a different area, Piket Pamo. Um

39:18there's an eroding bluff there as well.

39:20If neighbors in that area wanted to band

39:23up and do something where those um say a

39:25beach access point that the town owns,

39:27say right at the tip or something to

39:28that effect, then there's something that

39:30we may be able to do so long as there is

39:32a town interest. But again, this is only

39:34for smaller projects and it could take

39:35some of those smaller projects out of

39:37the CRP. I know you guys are having

39:38issues with some of the larger numbers.

39:41We'll work through that. But this will

39:43fix the smaller projects and give people

39:45hope. That is a very big thing with this

39:47project. Um some of these smaller

39:49projects people may get left behind. But

39:51if they band together and turn it into a

39:53community project where there is a town

39:55interest, a town be access point, a car

39:56park, uh town infrastructure such as a

39:59water pipe, something to that effect,

40:00then this is where the mechanism kicks

40:02in. They can make it a project of their

40:05own where they pay for the vast majority

40:06of it and we end up benefiting by

40:09keeping a car parked for a much lower

40:10cost. But why can't they do that now?

40:14>> They technically could, but this is uh

40:18making it into a joint effort between

40:20the town and homeowners. If they chose

40:22to do it ahead by themselves, forgive

40:24me. I don't wish to use bad examples.

40:26We'd end up with back to road 2.0. This

40:28is getting away from that.

40:35Dr. Bobby,

40:37>> well, I want to I want to touch base on

40:39that because you just said we're ending

40:40up with Backster Road 2.0.

40:43So, if we had a coastal resiliency plan

40:47for Sconet,

40:49are you telling me now that we would be

40:50putting in for the 4,800 ft of geo tube

40:54through the coastal resiliency plan

40:56because we feel like it's a benefit

40:59benefit to the town. So,

41:01>> despite all the push back and

41:02everything, see, this is my problem with

41:04this, Vince. Here's my here's here's my

41:06take on it, and then I'm I'm going to

41:08let you explain it.

41:10>> You buy a house on the beach, on a

41:12coastal plane, on a bluff, or on a

41:15beach. You know what you're buying. And

41:18there's been

41:21hundreds, if not thousands of people on

41:23this island for the last 20 years that

41:25have been paying for erosion projects

41:27out of their own pocket on properties

41:29that have had erosion, whether it's the

41:31Northshore, the Southshore. Houses have

41:33come and gone. Houses have been moved.

41:35We haven't paid for any of that. We did

41:38have to move back. We did have to move

41:40uh Sheep Spawn Road twice, Libby at

41:43least. Yeah. And that's because it's a

41:45county road and we have to do access. We

41:47may have to do that with Baxter Road at

41:48some point. We may have to do that with

41:50Ames Road at the end of Madakut. But if

41:53Pakamo Bluff were to erode, the access

41:56to Pakamo Bluff would just a road back.

41:59So I don't really see a public benefit

42:01to spend money to to save the houses on

42:05the top of of uh Pakamo Bluff. Those are

42:09those people's houses. They bought them

42:11knowing that bluff was there and there

42:12may be erosion. Same thing on the

42:13Northshore, Southshore, wherever. My

42:16question is this. If if you take a

42:18project like this and we do go to town

42:20meeting, does it need twothirds at town

42:23meeting or does it need a simple

42:24majority? And does it still have to go

42:26to the ballot for the for the funding or

42:28is it just get a simple majority at town

42:30meeting and then everybody gets charged

42:32a betterment? Because a perfect example

42:34will be if you just if you want to raise

42:37easy street and we have to better

42:39everyone in downtown district on that

42:42map. Every one of those betterments is

42:44going to just get passed on to the shop

42:46owner or the renter or whoever owns the

42:49property. Very few people are actually

42:51going to be paying it. It's just going

42:52to be passed on down to the to the

42:54individuals in this town. If you rent

42:56and you're in a Betterman area and you

42:58get a Betterman, you're going to pass it

43:00on to the tenant and

43:02Don't don't I mean don't don't sugarcoat

43:06this. A betterment is a tax. It's

43:08another tax. It's the ability for us to

43:11tax these people because they live close

43:13to the ocean and they chose that. And if

43:15their house erodess and goes away, I'm

43:17sorry, but either you you pay it out of

43:19your pocket. Don't expect don't expect

43:21me to fix your problems. Don't make your

43:24problems my problems. You buy a house on

43:25the beach and all of a sudden your beach

43:27erodess away and then you come to me and

43:28say, "Hey, you need to fix my beach." I

43:31that's not what tax dollars are for. Tax

43:34dollars are for making sure you got

43:36infrastructure. So,

43:39>> can we Yeah, Vince, I want Vince to

43:41answer.

43:41>> Thank you. So, um in essence, what

43:44happened, you know, meta level here now

43:47with Baxter Road is uh a group of

43:49private citizens took the lead. Um had

43:52major issues not being able to manage

43:54the project by themselves, had no

43:56oversight for the town from the town for

43:58a fairly long amount of time. And then

44:00the town had to partner with them all

44:02the same in order to take back control

44:04and have the project run correctly. This

44:06would take um that example and change it

44:09fundamentally from the start so that we

44:11have an input and have an interest to

44:14protect a town road, protect a town

44:16beach access point. Uh in order so that

44:19we can have these things paid for in

44:21majority by the neighbors, not very much

44:23by the town by comparison. We get to

44:25keep our infrastructure and

44:27infrastructure is what you're getting to

44:28here uh at a cheaper cost. Rather than

44:31us having to move back a car park or

44:32protect a road intersection or whatever

44:34the in infrastructure might have to be.

44:36It gets to do that. It also does not

44:38apply to the larger projects. It was in

44:41the presentation. We can go back to the

44:42slide for it if you want. This is only

44:44for the smaller projects. We're not

44:46talking about easy street here. I was

44:47very clear when I said this doesn't

44:49apply to the big projects, the ones that

44:51are in the CIP. This only applies to the

44:54smaller level projects and we need to do

44:57something. The town needs to act in some

44:59form to protect some people. But this is

45:02only a framework. The people that

45:04approach us or where we see a benefit

45:06for something that we already own.

45:09Therefore, it is not a tax. It is a

45:11mutual benefit to both the town and

45:14whatever group of neighbors come forward

45:16together on a small individual

45:18neighborhood level. Not anything related

45:20to the CIB. Would you consider Baxter

45:23Road a small project?

45:27>> That'd be more like a medium-sized

45:28project in some ways, but if you broke

45:31it into smaller areas, potentially could

45:33be a set of small projects. It was

45:35envisaged as um a phase project. So

45:38maybe that'd be one way to do it. But

45:39that's a poor example. Again, this would

45:41be more aimed at say somewhere to the

45:43effect of

45:44>> park or somewhere to the like Hulbert

45:46Avenue where they are outside of a core

45:49area. They're not on a main transitory

45:50route, but it's still an important area.

45:52There's still beach access points in

45:54those places, and we need to have

45:55benefit, a form of having benefit where

45:58the town has some oversight in a

46:00project. Otherwise, um, if a group of

46:03neighbors do it, as we see in some

46:05projects around the island, the town

46:06doesn't have the input. And guess what?

46:08We end up with all kinds of violations

46:11that we need to correct. This would

46:13negate that issue.

46:14>> Okay. So, who's going to oversee all

46:16this? Who's the expert for the town

46:18that's going to say where we don't have

46:19problems?

46:20>> Uh so the coastal resilience coordinator

46:22could be one of those people. A member

46:24of the select board if you choose to put

46:25a person forward. A member of the

46:27coastal resilience advisory committee.

46:28You have a committee of 11 uh to choose

46:30from. Uh

46:31>> so no one with any specific

46:33qualifications to run this pro project

46:35other than an appointed person because

46:37none of us including myself on this

46:40board has the qualifications to do it. I

46:42don't think anyone on your crack board

46:43has the qualifications. No one in the

46:46natural resources department has the

46:47qualifications to run this project. You

46:49just told me that you said the reason

46:51that the the uh geo tubes are in such

46:55become such a problem is because they

46:57didn't manage the project properly.

46:59Well, I have it just there's so many

47:03unanswered questions with this one of

47:04these most of these projects require

47:06some type of sand nourishment. The

47:08concom's not going to let you put hard

47:10hard armament in without some type of

47:12sand nourishment. There's no place to

47:13get the sand. I keep hearing this this

47:15rhetoric about, oh, we're going to mine

47:17sand. We're going to start a sandbank.

47:19Nobody's even come forward with any kind

47:21of potential spot to mine sand.

47:24>> Um, if you

47:25>> these are these things take years to fix

47:28and we just pushed all the coastal

47:30resiliency back 10 years in the in the

47:32uh

47:32>> in our capital improvement plan.

47:35>> Vince,

47:35>> so um in terms of who's qualified, um I

47:40am qualified. I have a degree in

47:41landscape architecture. Leah Hill is

47:43qualified. She's working on this. Jeff

47:45Carlson is the head of our department

47:46and he's got degrees in natural resource

47:48management. You hire experts to work

47:50within the town. We do our jobs. We are

47:52the people that you should be relying

47:53on. Second, when you're talking about um

47:56sand at some point in the next um couple

47:59of months hopefully I'll be bringing

48:01forward uh the sediment transport study

48:03and dredge plan and that h has a whole

48:06section in it on beneficial reuse of

48:08dredge sand and uh we are going to be

48:11working on that. So we are working on

48:12this as a method for collecting sand

48:16that the town will own.

48:17>> I've got a Yeah, I've got a couple

48:19comments. I it's tough to discuss this

48:22theoretically. You know, I think that's

48:24one of the problem for having uh Baxter

48:27Road and Sheep's Pond were in though we

48:29were in those situations because the

48:31town own the own the roads has a

48:35responsibility to because the state

48:37hasn't caught up with the realities of

48:38what's happening and is requiring us to,

48:41you know, to provide the infrastructure,

48:43provide the roads, provide the access.

48:46So, we're in these whether we want to be

48:48or not. You know, we get pulled in and

48:50we get threatened and we have to deal

48:52with it. We've had to do do it twice at

48:54Sheep's Pond, you know, we had to swap

48:57Alter Rock, you know, so that they had

49:00access. We were probably going to do it

49:01anyway, but that's a fairly, you know,

49:03that was a fairly substantial give on

49:06the part of the town. Uh, so I think

49:08it's theoretical. It would be great to

49:10have examples. It would be great to have

49:12examples saying here's what like here's

49:15what it's going to cost and here's how

49:17it's going to save the taxpayers. you

49:19know, if we have people in a specific

49:21area who are shouldering threequarters

49:25of the cost of something that we were

49:26required to do some of it anyway, then

49:29that would save us all money. But I

49:31think we need to see that.

49:32>> Uh, couple fine points on it that I have

49:34some concern with is uh

49:38citizens bringing it forward. You know,

49:40highlighting that aspect of it. I get a

49:42little worried that we don't have the

49:43capacity. if a bunch of people, a bunch

49:46of neighborhoods all decide they want to

49:48do something, how are we going to

49:49determine that, you know, I get a little

49:51worried about that. Uh I also think uh

49:56the the details it's sort of the way it

49:58was presented, maybe I got it wrong, so

49:59maybe this is kind of a question, is it

50:02would be presented to town meeting and

50:03they'd vote and then we'd figure out

50:05what it was going to cost. If you go to

50:07town meeting, that's what it sort of

50:08sounded like. If you go to town meeting

50:11with a betterment and no money attached

50:13or if you go with, you know, a building

50:15and no cost attached, it's guaranteed to

50:18be voted down. And so I think, you know,

50:20I would like to I think we have to have

50:22a better idea of what the area is, what

50:25the cost will be before

50:27>> that wasn't if that wasn't explained

50:28correctly. Yes. And a very defined

50:30mapped area with set boundaries of who's

50:32in and who's out and also costs are a

50:35part of what must go to town meeting.

50:37I'm sorry if that wasn't clearly

50:38explained, but that is absolutely part

50:40of the requirements. We have a memo as

50:42well that goes with this. It's about 15

50:44or so pages. Um it's detailed there.

50:46>> All right. That that makes me feel a

50:47little bit better because it's it's dead

50:49on the rival unless that is. I do think

50:52having some of the discussions, one of

50:53the positives of this would be uh having

50:57the neighborhood together and having

50:58those preliminary discussions so that

51:02you know because one of one of the

51:03issues you have is you've got to get the

51:05people involved that are there and then

51:08have them sort of figuring out how are

51:10they going to allocate the costs, how

51:12what is fair and get buy in. when you

51:15try to do this after one of the problems

51:16that they've had uh at out at Baxter

51:19Road is trying to you know herd cats you

51:23know after and get people to some you

51:25know a couple key people have paid and a

51:27lot of people haven't if that was you

51:29know if there was more of a framework

51:31around it it might have gone better and

51:34maybe we would have had you know a

51:35little bit more oversight out there than

51:37we've had and it's you know but this has

51:39been a learning process. Yeah. So that's

51:40exactly what we're presenting here is a

51:42framework for how to improve these kind

51:44of projects and um change the leadership

51:47dynamics so that um we can have members

51:50of the public propose ideas certainly

51:51but then it would have to get reviewed

51:53but it's not just then privately led

51:56which has caused issues in the past and

51:58that's one of the key points that when

52:00we discuss this at select board in 2023

52:02how to move away from that issue.

52:04>> Do we have anything Don or Brooke do you

52:07have any comments? Well, I do, but we

52:09have two experts with their hands up.

52:11Kate from Arcadus and Vicki. So, I'd

52:13rather hear from them before I make my

52:15comments because they may get they may

52:16have answers for me ahead of schedule

52:18[laughter] ahead of me.

52:20>> How about Katie and Kate and then we'll

52:21go to you, Joe.

52:22>> Well, I just want to respond to

52:23something you said that

52:24>> if that's okay because I want to I think

52:26that's an important discussion about

52:27who's going to pay. And I think my this

52:29is just my natural tendency that if

52:32we're saying that we're putting it

52:34forward and we're behind it, we're

52:35behind this process because that's what

52:37this will do. This is us as a town

52:39saying we're behind this. It went

52:41through our process. We're supporting

52:43it. Ultimately, that means we're paying

52:46for it. So, that's I I I hear what

52:48you're saying. You're saying we could

52:50turn around as select board. We can put

52:52forward betterments, but I I just get

52:56uncomfortable us with us endorsing a

52:59project like that. But I I like the idea

53:01that it's been vetted by a lot of

53:03people, and I can see where there are

53:06advantages to that. So yes, the upfront

53:08cost like any betterment would have to

53:10come from town meeting, but the general

53:13idea is that the vast majority would get

53:16repaid by those who benefit. So that

53:18money comes back in and the town would

53:20only have to pay a very small

53:21percentage. Um that has to be worked

53:23out. It's hard to say what that would

53:25be, but it's in the kind of very small

53:28between two hands type percentage

53:30>> and it's and that has happened. She

53:32responded. So Katie or Kate, who's

53:36>> Sure. I just thought it might be

53:38helpful.

53:38>> Kate or Vicki?

53:39>> That's Kate. Um

53:40>> Kate first, please.

53:42>> Um I thought it might be helpful to just

53:44highlight that uh any project proposal

53:47that comes forward under this framework

53:50um has to go to select board before um

53:54it gets approved. You are um the

53:57approval process for the subd district

53:59to be formed. So the um those smaller

54:03projects [snorts] if a subdist is going

54:06to be formed and put forward for a

54:08coastal resilience district type project

54:11you get that approval and then later you

54:14would have approval again of the

54:17betterments that are going to come out

54:18of that. So um these projects come to

54:21select board ahead of time and you would

54:24have the right to deny that as well.

54:27>> Can I ask a question to followup

54:29question on that? So it comes to us and

54:31we approve it say hypothetically.

54:35What do you consider a small project

54:37under 10 million? I mean where's the

54:40threshold here? And then if we approve

54:42it and then we approve the betterments,

54:44does it have to go to town meeting or do

54:46we just approve the project and then say

54:49okay everybody's going to be better at

54:50XYZ without going to town meeting?

54:53>> No, it has to go to town meeting and

54:55Vicki can speak a little bit more to

54:56that. But

54:57>> I keep hearing these small projects.

54:59What is the cost of a small project? 1

55:01million, 10 million, 5 million,

55:03>> what? 40 million. You have to design a

55:07project for have to. We haven't done

55:09that. So this is just a framework for

55:11how to do that. So you're asking a very

55:14good question, but until we run through

55:16the process, there is no answer.

55:22>> And and I think the amount would also

55:24depend on how many people are are being

55:26bettered or included. Vicki, do you have

55:28a comment, please?

55:31>> I do. Um, I'd like to offer possibly a

55:34suggestion um with how a project may be

55:37coming to the town. Um there are

55:40instances um that you could have like in

55:43the um a bylaw that's created that would

55:46actually um require um as part of the

55:50coastal resilience district formation

55:52and approval process to require the

55:55group of people in a particular

55:57neighborhood um to to sign like a

56:00petition or um a letter to the um to the

56:04select board which is going to say you

56:06know we are in agreement that we would

56:08like you to consider our project and we

56:10are all willing to pay the betterment um

56:13that is going to be assessed to us. Um

56:16and a betterment isn't just this the

56:18cost of the actual construction of the

56:21project um out at Sheep Pond Road which

56:24has been used as an example. we just are

56:27finishing up this project. Um and um it

56:31didn't include it included not just um

56:34the construction, it included the legal

56:36costs, the survey costs um and all of

56:38that was absorbed and agreed to be paid

56:41by um by the homeowners that are out

56:44there. Um there was an agreement amongst

56:46all of them. They formed a homeowners

56:48association and um are undertaking the

56:51management of this private way out

56:53there. It's a private um roadway

56:56easement. Um so there are different ways

56:58to do these projects, but I think that

57:01there are ways that um uh the town may

57:04want to the select board may want to

57:06consider to implement so that um you're

57:09assured that you have a total buyin of

57:12the area of the homeowners and not just

57:15a few that are leading um the group. Um

57:18and and that's been a that's been my

57:20experience with sheep pond and it's it's

57:23also been um my experience out at um

57:26there's another betterment project I did

57:28um for the town and we had to have at

57:30least 50% of the owners of the roadway

57:33um signing on to this. So um I think

57:36it's worth you know considering and and

57:40you know investigating um but it may be

57:42helpful as a mechanism for the select

57:44board. I think that's a good suggestion.

57:48It's similar to if someone wants to put

57:49gobbles in, they've got to go get on the

57:51road. They've got to go get 70% of the

57:54homeowners that are front.

57:56>> Matt.

57:57>> All right, Brooke.

57:59>> Yeah. So, um question through you to

58:01Vicki. Um

58:03can we put your suggestion of of you

58:08know a threshold of effective parties

58:10having to um agree in advance to the

58:13betterments? I mean I think that is an

58:15issue. I don't want to have go I don't

58:17want to expend our time on bringing

58:20forward a project if we don't have buyin

58:24from the people who are going to pay in

58:26advance like they have to commit they

58:28have to commit to it right and so how do

58:31we how do we put that in the process? Do

58:33we need to I'm sure it can be added at

58:36some point right it um or do we have to

58:38amend the bylaw to do that?

58:41So, we could um perhaps look at amending

58:44the bylaw or if we're setting up a

58:47series of regulations um that are going

58:50to govern this pro this program, perhaps

58:53we could implement it in that um

58:56documentation. So, we may want to look

58:58at the bylaw amendment um and see how

59:01complicated that may pose for this for

59:03the select board and how long it would

59:05take. um and alternatively consider

59:08creating this program um and as outlined

59:11and then adding in some of these um

59:14mechanisms that will um guide the select

59:17board.

59:18>> Could I make a suggestion?

59:19>> Thanks Vicki. Uh

59:21>> yeah, Brooke and then I'll go to Vince.

59:23Yeah, if if I could just say one thing

59:25that I that I was thinking as um as

59:27Bobby was talking that the way I see

59:30this is it is a way for us to manage

59:36um projects that are clearly

59:39um the the benefit is shared between

59:42private property and public assets,

59:44right? There are certain larger SIP

59:47projects that are on the SIP that like

59:49like Easy Street that is clearly a

59:52massive public benefit, right? It's

59:54access to the steamship warf. It's it's

59:56a public project almost in its entirety,

1:00:00but I think there are other ones and

1:00:02Codfish Park is a really good example

1:00:04where there are municipal assets, but

1:00:07the benefit of doing it carries to those

1:00:09property owners to a great extent and

1:00:11should theoretically have value to them.

1:00:14do they care enough about it to pay for

1:00:17it? And so it's a way of where there are

1:00:20shared private and public assets to

1:00:23evaluate, assess, get buy in and a

1:00:26commitment to pay for the from the

1:00:28private property owners for the benefit

1:00:30they receive from the project. But it

1:00:33gets because there's a public element,

1:00:36it has public management of the process,

1:00:39public funding, um public control to

1:00:42protect our assets, the community assets

1:00:45involved in a project that's shares. So

1:00:48to me, this just sets up a process by

1:00:50which we we assess it to begin and

1:00:53evaluate and move along. But again, it's

1:00:56the I don't want to get, you know, I'll

1:00:58repeat myself. I don't want to get to

1:00:59end of the line and have the property

1:01:01owners go, "Oh, we're going to ask town

1:01:03meeting to take the betterment out right

1:01:07at the last minute. I mean that the

1:01:09better that the project the approval is

1:01:11conditional on the benefit um being

1:01:14assessed. It's not they go hand in hand.

1:01:17They don't they can't be severed from

1:01:19one another in this process." And I see

1:01:21Vicki shaking her head. Yes, that's

1:01:23what's going to be important here. It's

1:01:25not optional. the project moving forward

1:01:27is is contingent on the betterment being

1:01:30assessed.

1:01:33>> Vince, thank you, Mr. Chair.

1:01:35>> Mr. Chair, if I may add through through

1:01:37you to Brooke, um the the betterment um

1:01:41has to be approved by town well the the

1:01:44appropriation for the funding for the

1:01:47project needs to be approved by um town

1:01:51meeting. the actual assessment of the

1:01:54betterment itself is appro if is

1:01:56approved by the select board as the

1:01:58town. Um so um they're they're two

1:02:02separate votes but um the the betterment

1:02:05assessment you the select would would

1:02:07want to know that they're going to have

1:02:08a buy in from at least the people who

1:02:11are going to receive the benefit and the

1:02:13people who are being assessed the

1:02:15betterments they're the they're the only

1:02:17ones that are going to assessments if

1:02:19you are being benefited by this project.

1:02:23>> Okay Vince I'm gonna go to Don and then

1:02:25I'll come to you. Is that all right?

1:02:26Okay, Don.

1:02:27>> I mean, just my question is, but can we

1:02:31get to town meeting

1:02:33having an agreement that we're going to

1:02:35assess betterments and then have it be

1:02:37amended on town meeting floor just like

1:02:40it was with the um the sewer project?

1:02:43>> I can ensure that that can't happen.

1:02:47>> So, to be clear, the way that we framed

1:02:49this initially was that homeowners would

1:02:51be the ones that would bring some of

1:02:53these projects forward. So they're

1:02:55already bought in in step one in

1:02:57initiation so that they're the ones

1:02:59suggesting a project if there is a

1:03:01public benefit at that if if it's just

1:03:04one or two people bringing forward a

1:03:06project and making a suggestion

1:03:09uh we will obviously ask the question

1:03:10where is the rest of your support is the

1:03:12whole neighborhood involved then you get

1:03:14um you get most of your support at the

1:03:16very beginning. Second to that, if you

1:03:18want to have a minimum requirement if

1:03:21the town is bringing forward a project

1:03:23for the sake of argument of 50%. Um

1:03:26Vicki may want to do it as a bylaw, but

1:03:28we can also work it into um this

1:03:30proposal that we have here for this um

1:03:32framework. If if you adopt this tonight,

1:03:35we can add language uh to have um 50% or

1:03:38whatever percentage you like at a

1:03:40minimum for projects that the town

1:03:42brings forward. You may need a you may

1:03:44need a higher threshold potentially for

1:03:46if neighbors are bringing it forward

1:03:47themselves.

1:03:49>> Right. And and Vicki did say that could

1:03:50be put in the regulations which is what

1:03:52you're saying.

1:03:53>> Yes, please.

1:03:54>> Yep. Don, did that answer?

1:03:58>> Yep.

1:03:58>> Yeah. And am I and I think Don is right

1:04:02that you know people everyone likes the

1:04:04idea of betterments as long as they

1:04:06don't get bettered as you know if it's

1:04:08their if it's for if it's their cost

1:04:10they want the taxpayers to shoulder it.

1:04:12if you know but you know that's

1:04:14>> it's very clear in here that betterments

1:04:16are a core requirement

1:04:17>> of this it is

1:04:18>> so if if we're going to ask the

1:04:21neighbors whether it's 50% or 60% of the

1:04:25affected people in the area to sign on

1:04:28and agree to a betterment before the

1:04:30project even goes forward why do we even

1:04:32need the coastal resiliency districts

1:04:34why don't these projects just come to us

1:04:36from the neighborhood as we need them

1:04:38codfish park is an example you used it

1:04:40I'll use it Okay, the lower part of

1:04:42Codfish Park is starting to the people

1:04:44are starting to lose their beach.

1:04:45They're worried their houses are going

1:04:46to go away. We have a road that we may

1:04:48have to replace.

1:04:50I'll give you a hypothetical. That's 10

1:04:53owners on the on the road come to the

1:04:54town and say, "Hey, we want to do a

1:04:56coastal dune project. We've we're going

1:05:00to go to the Concom. We're going to get

1:05:01it permitted. We're going to fund it.

1:05:03It's going to cost $10 million. We'd

1:05:06like the town to kick in. Why don't we

1:05:08just kick in?" because they can do it a

1:05:10lot cheaper than we can. The minute the

1:05:11town gets involved, we have to start

1:05:13dealing with procurement issues,

1:05:14everything else. So, I don't understand

1:05:17why we need all these districts. These

1:05:19districts are huge. I mean, they go

1:05:21inland a long way.

1:05:24If you're going to have coastal

1:05:25districts, make them coastal districts.

1:05:27Don't I mean, you might as well just

1:05:30cover the whole island because there's

1:05:32only a small sloth in the middle of the

1:05:33island is

1:05:34>> I was I was going to answer it, but

1:05:35Vince, I think you can answer it. So um

1:05:37these bubbles that overlap everywhere

1:05:40they are not the districts the district

1:05:41the subd district would have to get

1:05:43mapped individually to say exactly which

1:05:46parcels are in and which parcels are

1:05:48out. So the map that we initially worked

1:05:50with uh was actually improved by uh the

1:05:53coastal residency advisory committee in

1:05:54June uh oh sorry begg pardon July when

1:05:57they asked not to have that they only

1:05:59wanted the one with the multiple colors

1:06:01and bubbles to be internal facing as

1:06:03Katie Duskin said in her presentation

1:06:06and that the green version was a much

1:06:08better one and then you can carve out

1:06:10subdists within that within that for the

1:06:13parcels that benefit in primary and

1:06:15secondary beneficiary lots so that you

1:06:17can then assess exactly what the project

1:06:19is going to be, who's going to benefit,

1:06:21what the cost is going to be, and who

1:06:22will pay what amount, including some

1:06:25small portion if there's a town benefit.

1:06:30>> Oh,

1:06:31>> Matt.

1:06:32>> Yes.

1:06:32>> Sorry, it's it's hard. I don't know

1:06:34whether Do you have Do you have on the

1:06:36screen to see whose hands up? It's hard

1:06:38for me.

1:06:38>> No, I get I've got

1:06:39>> Okay,

1:06:40>> I've got all of you telling me.

1:06:42>> Okay, I'll just chime in. Sorry. um uh

1:06:45through you to um to Vince. Vince, the

1:06:49bottom line is the district is

1:06:51determined by the project, right? We're

1:06:53not establishing districts today. That

1:06:56that as a project comes forward, the

1:06:58affected properties, the delineation of

1:07:01who's affected or or what properties are

1:07:04affected is defined and the district is

1:07:06created on a projectby project basis. Is

1:07:09that right? Right. I'm seeing the

1:07:11consultants shaking their heads. Is that

1:07:13right?

1:07:14>> Yes.

1:07:15>> Yes.

1:07:18>> Question.

1:07:19>> Okay, Jill.

1:07:20>> So, [clears throat] hypothetical, let's

1:07:23say you have a project and

1:07:26codfish dune restoration project and we

1:07:30move forward that the town authorizes

1:07:33that. So, is that the town that's going

1:07:35to have the license for that project? Um

1:07:38you also have to look at the land

1:07:39ownership. Um between the where the dune

1:07:42is um above the top of the um beach um

1:07:46there's a myriad of owners. Majority is

1:07:49uh the town and the land bank. There's a

1:07:50few private parcels in there and you'd

1:07:52need to get them to sign on as well. It

1:07:54again just imagine if it's it starts out

1:07:58um we talked about this last time I was

1:07:59here. I'm here four weeks in a row. Um

1:08:01this is a phased project potentially.

1:08:03Say it starts down on the east end where

1:08:05it's nearest um the the the the water

1:08:09and you have to move it westward over

1:08:12time and all the neighbors agree to

1:08:13that. Then you could do it in in one big

1:08:16lot or you can do it in three or four

1:08:18small lots where everyone gets assessed

1:08:20in their mapped area and you could have

1:08:22end up in say however many mapped areas

1:08:25you want over time. This can be broken

1:08:27down uh to whatever applicable way for

1:08:30neighbor groupings who agree

1:08:36Well, I'm thinking more about the bluff

1:08:39and how that was the town entering into

1:08:42um an agreement with a non-governmental

1:08:45entity. Is that the path for these

1:08:47projects?

1:08:48>> Uh no, not necessarily.

1:08:50>> Okay, that's what I wanted to

1:08:52understand.

1:08:56Bobby.

1:08:57>> So I because I want to get this clear in

1:08:59my head.

1:09:04We we take a project, we agree to it at

1:09:09this board,

1:09:10we go to the concomers

1:09:15go to the concom to get the permit the

1:09:18project permitted. Is it our

1:09:19responsibility now as the town to get

1:09:21the project permitted? So someone from

1:09:24staff has to go and do all that work.

1:09:26>> So uh in essence um it would be a joint

1:09:30effort between the town say whoever you

1:09:32happen to be the coast resilience

1:09:33coordinator and members of this uh

1:09:36homeowner grouping so that they would

1:09:38have to uh make a joint filing like what

1:09:40happened with SPF. uh the town could

1:09:42take the lead on this so that we uh

1:09:44manage to run the show and have terms

1:09:47within say a concom filing an order of

1:09:49conditions that we know everyone will

1:09:52sign up to again an improvement over uh

1:09:55previous efforts.

1:09:57>> Okay. So yeah, we're the point person.

1:10:00So we're the one that's got to do all

1:10:01the leg work. Then we have to go out and

1:10:05get the bids for the project. We have to

1:10:09go through the bids, pick out a bid,

1:10:12then we have to go back to town meeting.

1:10:14We have to get town meeting

1:10:16authorization. Vicki, can you answer

1:10:18this? Is it 2/3 or is it a simple

1:10:20majority?

1:10:22>> No, it's 2/3.

1:10:24>> So, we need two/3 approval. Do we need

1:10:26to go to the ballot as well?

1:10:30>> Depending upon the size, yes, of the

1:10:32project.

1:10:34Uh if it's an override, these are all

1:10:37considered overrides, right? None of

1:10:38them be funded. So, we would have to go

1:10:40to the ballot,

1:10:44>> yes or no?

1:10:45>> It would depend on how much it is. If we

1:10:47didn't have,

1:10:48>> right,

1:10:49>> $10 million in the budget, yes, we

1:10:51probably go get

1:10:52>> We would try to fund some of these out

1:10:54of the budget if if possible,

1:10:57>> hypothetically. D.

1:10:59>> Yeah. I um just I don't u Mr. chair

1:11:02through um depending on how much they

1:11:04are and if they were probably in the

1:11:06capital plan they'd be capital projects.

1:11:09>> Yeah. But more than likely they wouldn't

1:11:11be in the capital plan. So we'd have to

1:11:12go for an override. So, we need two

1:11:14votes and then we would borrow the money

1:11:20and we would oversee the project and

1:11:23then when the project was all done then

1:11:25we would better out the cost or a

1:11:28percentage of it to the homeowners and

1:11:31that would get tacked onto their tax

1:11:33bills for 20 years is five years. How

1:11:35how do we figure that out?

1:11:37>> It's 20.

1:11:38>> Yep.

1:11:38>> It's they can have up they can elect to

1:11:41pay them upfront. they can pay them over

1:11:42a period of years, no more than 20

1:11:44years.

1:11:47>> So, all this really does is add a whole

1:11:50bunch of money to our debt.

1:11:53Even though it's the majority of it's

1:11:55paid out, I know and it's an override,

1:11:57but it's still an override.

1:12:00>> If it was excluded debt, um

1:12:04it's ultimately going to be paid for by

1:12:05other people.

1:12:07>> Okay, one last question. [clears throat]

1:12:11somebody if it if if we're going to do

1:12:13this project in Codfish Park for as an

1:12:16example, I'm keep using Codfish Park,

1:12:18but the the main people that benefit

1:12:21from that are the people right on the

1:12:23beach, but you could say that all of

1:12:26Codfish Park benefits from this.

1:12:28Correct.

1:12:28>> So there's um two rows of houses for

1:12:31most part, but yes. So you'd have

1:12:32primary and secondary beneficiaries all

1:12:34below the coastal bank. So, there's a

1:12:36potential that someone that's way up on

1:12:38the on the hill that's 400 yards back

1:12:41from the water would still get some sort

1:12:43of a betterment because they would be

1:12:46considered a secondary beneficiary

1:12:48>> that that you'd have to undertake a

1:12:49legal assessment, but it's not without

1:12:51possibility.

1:12:52>> And then if that person was an elderly

1:12:56person or was on a fixed income, what

1:12:58happens? Is there is there an an is

1:13:01there an out for them? So again, this

1:13:03goes back to project initiation. When

1:13:05we're looking at these things at the

1:13:07start, we would assess how the project

1:13:09may run, who the beneficiaries may be,

1:13:11who's in and again when we get back to

1:13:13the de part four, defining it, mapping

1:13:16it, we would understand it at that

1:13:18point. Um, you can end a project after

1:13:22defining it if people suddenly start

1:13:23dropping out. So this is a vetting

1:13:26process to be able to understand well is

1:13:28this going to work or not? If you end up

1:13:30say going below your 50% threshold if

1:13:32it's a town proposed project or suddenly

1:13:34if it's a neighbor proposed project and

1:13:37half or more of the neighbors decide oh

1:13:39well actually no we don't want this

1:13:40anymore then we'll at least have tried

1:13:42we'll have given people some hope and

1:13:44found some path forward and then people

1:13:47will actually know what the town's

1:13:49intentions are if we can help them or

1:13:51not.

1:13:53>> Another way to think about that another

1:13:55way I think about this is there's a

1:13:57there's also the whole free rider issue.

1:13:59If somebody is further is is a secondary

1:14:02or further up, they'll go, I don't want

1:14:03to pay. You know, at least the front the

1:14:05front row will pay. They'll take care of

1:14:07everything for us. And so you kind of,

1:14:09you know, I think part of the problem

1:14:11that we've had is is the people that are

1:14:15benefiting, you got to identify them

1:14:17early on and get them to be part of it.

1:14:19You know, they understand there's a

1:14:20benefit for themselves, but they hope

1:14:22that the front row pays. And so, so how

1:14:24do you so you've got to find a way?

1:14:25Well, what happens if the ben one of the

1:14:27beneficiaries is the conservation

1:14:29foundation or the sponsor trust or the

1:14:31land bank that don't pay property taxes?

1:14:34Are they going to still have to pay a

1:14:35betterment?

1:14:36>> Again, we'd have to go back through um

1:14:39understanding like who's in and who's

1:14:42out and if NCF want to be out, then we

1:14:45understand their position. That then

1:14:47helps define if the project moves

1:14:49forward or not.

1:14:51But if 50% of the people vote yes and

1:14:57the one of the nonprofits who does don't

1:14:59pay taxes vote no, are they still going

1:15:02to get assessed some type of betterment?

1:15:04>> I mean, is that or is only the people

1:15:06that say yes are going to get an assess

1:15:08a betterment and the ones that say no

1:15:10aren't?

1:15:11>> I think Vicki may

1:15:12>> Yeah, that's a Vicki question. I I think

1:15:13I know the answer, but

1:15:14>> everyone gets the assessment.

1:15:18Yes, everyone is going to be assessed.

1:15:20And um

1:15:22>> the the other thing is, you know, once

1:15:24once we set up what the coastal

1:15:26resiliency district is, those are the

1:15:29the people who um are going to be um

1:15:33assess betterments. And so, you know,

1:15:36the the parameters of the district are

1:15:38such that we'll be able to see who would

1:15:41be willing to pay those betterments and

1:15:43who will not. And if the select board

1:15:45deems that this project isn't viable,

1:15:47that it doesn't have enough support, um

1:15:49that's up to you to, you know, to vote

1:15:51and decide that you don't want to

1:15:53proceed with it. Um so it gives you

1:15:56options, but you're not at the end of

1:15:58the line where you've approved a project

1:16:00and then you realize that you don't have

1:16:02the support. And I think that's what um

1:16:05this program is trying to accomplish.

1:16:07>> Am I correct?

1:16:08>> Can we assess betterments, Vicki? Can we

1:16:10assess betterments on the nonprofits

1:16:12and the land bank?

1:16:14>> Um,

1:16:16I don't know. I I would have to look

1:16:19into that, Bobby, for you.

1:16:22>> All right.

1:16:23>> I'd be happy to get you that answer.

1:16:25>> We have a couple people, Deianne and one

1:16:27other. Should we go to Deian? All right.

1:16:31And Mary. All right. So, let's go Deian

1:16:33first.

1:16:34>> Thank you, Matt. Can you hear me?

1:16:36>> Yes. Um, I have just a brief comment and

1:16:40two questions. One, I want to thank the

1:16:45town administration and Vince in

1:16:47particular for engaging with this

1:16:50important issue for Nantucket and for

1:16:53our future. It's complicated and it's

1:16:57difficult

1:16:58and we support you in your efforts.

1:17:02for my two questions. One is

1:17:06what authority would the establishment

1:17:09of coastal resilience districts give the

1:17:12town that it doesn't have already under

1:17:17its authority to assess betterments.

1:17:21>> I can assist with that if D.

1:17:24>> Okay.

1:17:24>> Do you want to answer that, Vince?

1:17:26>> Yes. And I may need some help from um uh

1:17:29Kate or Katie on this. Um so one way of

1:17:32looking at this is so you get a project

1:17:34you do it and um it's all set. One of

1:17:37the key differences is when you do a

1:17:39project and it needs some maintenance

1:17:41you with betterments you can't go back

1:17:43to get more money for maintenance. about

1:17:44this. It would be a way for um to

1:17:47include maintenance as part of the

1:17:49project going forward over the lifespan

1:17:51of up to 20 years so that we could have

1:17:54um the other big thing that was missing

1:17:56from say a Baxter road type project

1:17:59ongoing maintenance. Um if you wanted to

1:18:02add any more to that Kate uh feel free

1:18:04through you Mr. Chair.

1:18:11I I would welcome Becky's comments as

1:18:13well. Um

1:18:15>> I'm sorry. Okay. Okay. Um but

1:18:19essentially the town through the passing

1:18:21of the bylaw and the approval of the

1:18:22bylaw in 2024 does have the authority to

1:18:25assess betterments through coastal

1:18:26resilience districts is kind of the core

1:18:28of the answer. So this authority exists

1:18:31and what we're working on currently is

1:18:33setting up a framework for how how does

1:18:35this become implemented because as you

1:18:36note it is quite a complicated issue. Um

1:18:39so coming up with that framework for

1:18:41moving this forward um through

1:18:43implementation.

1:18:45>> Okay, great. Thank you.

1:18:47>> Thank you. And my second

1:18:49>> second question Yeah.

1:18:50>> Yes. My second question, Matt, is what

1:18:54happens when a neighborhood

1:18:58comes to the town with a project that

1:19:03while it may be in the best interest of

1:19:05the neighborhood, is not in the best

1:19:07interest of Nantucket.

1:19:11And I refer specifically to the backax

1:19:14road situation

1:19:16where

1:19:18the geo tubes are slowly but surely

1:19:22destroying the public beach below the

1:19:24bluff.

1:19:25Um

1:19:27are we saying that any neighborhood that

1:19:30comes forward with a proposal

1:19:34wouldn't automatically get the approval

1:19:36of the town? Is that correct?

1:19:39>> If I could answer that. Yeah. Vince. So

1:19:41in essence um it may fall apart at the

1:19:44vetting stage at the very beginning at

1:19:46initiation. Then if it were to get

1:19:48advanced it will have to then get

1:19:50reviewed by the select board. The select

1:19:51board could be uh the first major

1:19:54checkpoint in turning down uh a project

1:19:56suggested by neighbors. If it were to

1:19:58pass the select board, it will then have

1:20:00to go to annual town meeting uh for

1:20:02approval. It could at that point then

1:20:04get uh voted down at that point. Um so

1:20:07there's

1:20:07>> and you got the comm too.

1:20:09>> Uh correct. Thank you. So, there's at

1:20:10least four checks on this.

1:20:13>> Thank you so much.

1:20:16>> Okay. All right, Mary.

1:20:26>> Thank you very much. Mary Longinker, a

1:20:28current member of the Coastal Residence

1:20:29Advisory Committee. Um, Bobby raised a

1:20:33concern about the town having to manage

1:20:35it, the town having to do all of the

1:20:37work for the procurement and everything.

1:20:39And and would one of the project members

1:20:42uh correct me if I'm wrong, but since

1:20:45each one of these potential projects

1:20:48must include protection of some of the

1:20:51town's infrastructure, the alternative

1:20:54if we don't have this structure is for

1:20:56the town to do all the work anyway. So I

1:20:59I don't see that, you know, the town

1:21:01needing to be involved is uh a

1:21:04detriment. It it is a baseline condition

1:21:07of any project funded under any

1:21:09mechanism that is going to protect the

1:21:11town's assets.

1:21:13>> Okay. Thank you, Mary.

1:21:20>> All right, Charity.

1:21:24>> Thanks very much. Um I looked at the map

1:21:29um of these various districts. I live in

1:21:35a very mid island area

1:21:38which has been characterized as

1:21:41downtown.

1:21:43And I have to tell you,

1:21:45if you are going to try to include

1:21:49people who have absolutely no access to

1:21:55beaches, coastal erosion, or anything

1:21:58else like that. and you're going to try

1:22:01to impose betterments on those

1:22:04properties, you're going to be in for a

1:22:06big fight.

1:22:08So, I think you better

1:22:10>> Char, I don't think that is not the

1:22:11intent. Correct. Yes. Well, better

1:22:14sharpen your pencils and

1:22:18get this down to a point where the

1:22:20people who have the coastal properties,

1:22:21who, you know,

1:22:24are the, you know,

1:22:27>> ones who have the greatest assets and

1:22:31all of that are being subsidized

1:22:35by people,

1:22:37year-round people who live in Mid

1:22:39Island. Thanks very much.

1:22:41>> All right. Thank you. I know Vince would

1:22:43like to speak to this. Vince,

1:22:44>> let's say um charity lives in the mid

1:22:46island area and let's say let's say that

1:22:48extends all the way up to the down uh to

1:22:51say somewhere like um Halbert Avenue. So

1:22:53in that particular area the neighbors

1:22:55who will be mapped in on say the front

1:22:58row of houses on Halbert Avenue and

1:22:59maybe the row behind on the other side

1:23:01of the road in Hullbert Avenue the one

1:23:03and it gets mapped and they define

1:23:05exactly which properties are in and

1:23:07which properties are out. Those are the

1:23:09ones that would have the project and get

1:23:11the betterment to stop say the flooding

1:23:13in that area. And if you're in any other

1:23:15part of that mapped bubble area which is

1:23:18only internal facing for us to help with

1:23:20engagement purposes there the you you it

1:23:24doesn't affect you. You might get

1:23:25contacted just to be made aware of it

1:23:27for the sake of argument. But in

1:23:28reality, it's only the people who would

1:23:31benefit in the mapped area once we get

1:23:33to about stage four for defining that

1:23:36mapped area that would be the ones that

1:23:37would pay for it, not anyone else that

1:23:39lives say even on say Eastern Street for

1:23:42the sake of argument. Uh I'm very much

1:23:44making up kind of hypotheticals at this

1:23:47point, but if you're anywhere towards

1:23:48downtown or anywhere else further in

1:23:51land, it won't affect you in essence.

1:23:55and and and the other way I look at it

1:23:56though is if if we don't do something

1:23:59like this but we are forced to do some

1:24:02of these ch some of these projects

1:24:04because there's town infrastructure and

1:24:06it's all in the tax base then everybody

1:24:08does pay

1:24:08>> correct

1:24:09>> and so so that's that's what we're

1:24:10trying to balance Bobby Mr. Chairman, I

1:24:14don't I don't even know we're having

1:24:15this discussion.

1:24:17Katie just said that we already have a

1:24:19cultural resiliency districts. We've

1:24:21already voted that through a town

1:24:23meeting. So just why do we worrying

1:24:26about what area you're going to call

1:24:28what? Just find a project, bring it in,

1:24:30and then we'll discuss it. I mean, I

1:24:32just if if it's already there and it's

1:24:33in place and how meeting voted and then

1:24:35why just call the whole island a

1:24:37district, which is what the second green

1:24:38map shows, and let's move on. We don't.

1:24:42We're sitting here talking semantics. We

1:24:44don't have a project. Until you bring us

1:24:45a project, Vince

1:24:47>> for this board to look at. There's

1:24:48really it's all there's so many

1:24:50hypotheticals here.

1:24:51>> We're just wasting time actually.

1:24:53>> Well, you you are I think you're Bobby.

1:24:55I think you're right in some regards. I

1:24:57also think there are some suggestions

1:24:59that came up from the discussion tonight

1:25:00that could improve this. And so I think

1:25:02part of it is

1:25:03>> at least 50%.

1:25:04>> Yeah. Like a certain Yeah. So there's

1:25:05things that we part of this is having a

1:25:07public process and and and having you

1:25:10know having some of these discussions to

1:25:11improve it. And so I think and to get

1:25:14buyin from this board and from the

1:25:16public so that when he does if and when

1:25:18we do bring a project we've sort of

1:25:21identified what some of the issues are

1:25:23going to be before we do it. So yes,

1:25:25>> I think he's trying to institute a

1:25:27process so that if somebody approaches

1:25:29Vince and says, I want to do this at

1:25:31Codfish Park, then he has a way to say,

1:25:35okay, these are the first few steps, and

1:25:37then we're going to go to the CRA

1:25:38committee, and then we're going to go

1:25:40back to the select board, and we're

1:25:42going to go around and talk to other

1:25:43homeowners um and kind of alert people

1:25:46and see if they want to get on board.

1:25:48Um, which I will say, I mean,

1:25:53I I don't love uh processes like that. I

1:25:56feel like that is setting all these

1:25:58projects up to fail, Vince, and that's

1:26:00my only hesitation.

1:26:02>> So,

1:26:02>> I like the public aspect to it that

1:26:04people will know and can discuss. That's

1:26:06great. But you're talking about a lot of

1:26:08homeowners who don't have the right to

1:26:10vote here. And so we're kind of saying

1:26:14that we're we're going to be their

1:26:15voice, right,

1:26:16>> to advocate for them at town meeting,

1:26:18the select board, the town

1:26:20administration, you.

1:26:22>> But I think that's tough um to take a

1:26:25project like that and then

1:26:28I I I do. You see what I'm saying? I I

1:26:31just can't really again, we haven't had

1:26:33a project quite like this yet with this

1:26:36process. So I think that's where I'm

1:26:38struggling to kind of

1:26:40>> see all the way through to the end.

1:26:42>> I get it. So if I might Thank you, Mr.

1:26:44Chair. So long story short, this is just

1:26:46a framework. It's how we introduce it.

1:26:47It's how we are talking about this. This

1:26:49is a framework for how the we can make

1:26:51the bylaw work. Um said it many many

1:26:53times this evening. And in terms of um

1:26:56what we like to call non- voting

1:26:58taxpayers um we have people bringing

1:27:00forward projects and doing works on the

1:27:02island constantly on their own

1:27:05properties um as part of backster road

1:27:07type projects and then um not quite but

1:27:12fairly close to running a muk. This

1:27:14brings control back in so that we have a

1:27:17stake have an ability to make these run

1:27:19properly. The other big thing that we're

1:27:21facing, and it's a constant problem, um

1:27:24I hate to say this, but it is. We've

1:27:25people coming in making suggestions, oh,

1:27:27you should just nourish beaches. Why

1:27:28don't you just get sand from there and

1:27:30put it there? That will work in Florida,

1:27:32South Carolina, New Jersey. That won't

1:27:34work in Massachusetts. People are

1:27:36bringing wonderful ideas from other

1:27:38states and trying to shoehorn it into a

1:27:40system here that doesn't work. This

1:27:41gives definition to that system that the

1:27:44public can then pick up, take, read, and

1:27:46see what how it will work for them to

1:27:48get a project done on their property

1:27:50with mutual co- benefits for the town.

1:27:54>> All right. So, I think we we've kind of

1:27:58we've kind of hit the end of this. Is

1:27:59there anything that we'd like to take

1:28:01away from this, Vince?

1:28:03>> Um, so I was hoping that this would be

1:28:05approved tonight. I think one some minor

1:28:07amendments are needed. uh inclusion of

1:28:09the 50% in the framework. Um if I see

1:28:13Don has her hand up, but um I think I

1:28:16could bring this back in two weeks for

1:28:17your approval if you wish.

1:28:19>> I just made a comment on the 50%. I

1:28:21think it should be a higher threshold.

1:28:23>> I agree. Should be at least 60.

1:28:25>> Like how what do we do for the roads? Is

1:28:27it 70 for the co if someone wants

1:28:30cobblestones on their street? Don't they

1:28:31have to get 70% of the homeowners?

1:28:35>> Something like that. Anyway,

1:28:37>> I mean, I'd feel better if it was 60.

1:28:39>> How much is it?

1:28:41>> Oh, 60. 60. All right.

1:28:45>> Vicki has her hand up. Matt.

1:28:48>> All right, Vicki.

1:28:51>> Hi.

1:28:52>> Um, thank you, Mr. Chair. I just wanted

1:28:54to let um Bob um know that um that

1:28:59organizations like the Lamb Bank, NCF

1:29:02are not um exempt from betterments.

1:29:05Okay. Okay.

1:29:08>> Would it be possible for me to bring

1:29:09this back in two weeks with uh

1:29:11amendments as discussed tonight

1:29:14>> or or do we want to finish it tonight?

1:29:16Do we have anything other than 60% that

1:29:18people want to add to this?

1:29:20>> Matt.

1:29:21>> Yes.

1:29:23>> I I'm okay we move forward with this.

1:29:25It's we're going to have to tweak it

1:29:27after the first project comes forward.

1:29:29There's no doubt about it. I mean, I

1:29:30think this is meant to be a a a

1:29:33framework that we start with. I like the

1:29:36addition of the 60% when it's a when

1:29:39it's a neighbor sponsored project and I

1:29:42I say let's move forward try to work a

1:29:45project under this and and we're going

1:29:46to be involved all along the way so

1:29:49we'll be able to see if there are any

1:29:51pitfalls that we haven't anticipated

1:29:53based on a specific project. I think

1:29:54it's a little hard. Let's go with it in

1:29:58theory and then see how it works out in

1:30:00practice is what I'm saying.

1:30:02Do we have a motion from anyone?

1:30:05>> That's my motion that we move forward

1:30:08with the with the um the one change that

1:30:10we identified.

1:30:12>> All right. Do we have a second?

1:30:15>> I'll second it.

1:30:16>> Okay. So, all those in favor online

1:30:19first. Brooke.

1:30:21>> I.

1:30:22>> Don

1:30:23>> I.

1:30:24>> Bobby.

1:30:24>> No.

1:30:25>> Jill.

1:30:26>> I'm a no.

1:30:27>> And I'm an I. So that's three to two.

1:30:29>> Can I give an explanation for my no?

1:30:31Yeah, I think that this is going to turn

1:30:33into a cash cow for our consultants and

1:30:35I don't know who from this departments

1:30:37or departments are going to run this and

1:30:39until we actually have one project come

1:30:42through this as like a pilot program. I

1:30:44was I wasn't going to vote in favor of

1:30:46this.

1:30:47>> And I just want to give my feedback too.

1:30:49I again Bob's right. It'd be better if

1:30:52there was a project and we could see

1:30:53that move forward. But I'm a no because

1:30:55I think we're instituting a really

1:30:58burdensome government process that I'm

1:31:00just I'm leerary of. And um so I I would

1:31:04rather

1:31:05I I I know it'd probably be better for

1:31:07you to have clearer rules of the road,

1:31:10but I feel like this is again we're

1:31:12relying on other committees and people

1:31:14who I don't think are experts on to

1:31:16determine these things and then it

1:31:18bubbles up and I'm uncomfortable with

1:31:20that right now. But

1:31:22>> um Okay, no problem. Um, you the town

1:31:25hires qualified staff. We do what we're

1:31:27um assigned to do. Um, I wouldn't be

1:31:30here if I hadn't spent uh nine years in

1:31:32college.

1:31:33>> Thank you.

1:31:34>> Yeah. And and I have concerns about

1:31:36capacity and and ability to do this, but

1:31:38I voted yes because I'd like to have I'd

1:31:40like there to be some forward motion on

1:31:43this to see what can come out of it. So,

1:31:46yeah, I I think we we will see. All

1:31:49right. So, let's move on to uh public

1:31:54works project update.

1:32:06>> All right, Drew.

1:32:08>> Good evening. Drew Pat, director of

1:32:09public works. I realized I didn't

1:32:11introduce myself earlier. Um, so thanks

1:32:13for having me this evening. Um, got a

1:32:16couple projects. first uh of which is

1:32:18the new DBW facility. Um the last time

1:32:21we presented this publicly was with the

1:32:24hunting association at a information

1:32:25session in March of 2025 and the last

1:32:28time I did this in front of the board

1:32:29was late 2024. So it's been a been a

1:32:31while. Um good still works. Um so quick

1:32:35agenda. The first couple slides I'll try

1:32:38to get through pretty quickly. It's just

1:32:39kind of a recap again because it's been

1:32:40a while. Um we had formed a DPW facility

1:32:44workg group and then I kind of wanted to

1:32:46get you know um through the where we

1:32:48were what we did and and where we are

1:32:50now and then the next steps. Um quick

1:32:53overview and Samson is our our designer

1:32:55architecture engineering firm Vertex

1:32:57Companies and John Lemieux who you might

1:32:58be familiar with from the hour on home

1:33:00project is our uh OPM our owners project

1:33:03manager. Uh Kelly Cardosa from Avalon

1:33:05Consulting is doing our permitting and

1:33:07TCI is our independent construction cost

1:33:09estimator.

1:33:11Um it's been a long and winding road uh

1:33:13the history of this project. Uh the

1:33:14original appropriation was 2015. Uh so

1:33:17we're going on at least 11 years now. Um

1:33:20approval in 2018 for 2.3 million um

1:33:23allowed the town to undertake, you know,

1:33:25site selection and uh preliminary

1:33:27design, schematic design. But as you all

1:33:30know, um at back-to-back meetings in 24

1:33:32and 25, we were not successful in

1:33:34securing supplemental funding for final

1:33:36design. Um at the 26th annual town

1:33:38meeting this past spring, we did get

1:33:40final design funding. Um and again, as

1:33:42you're all familiar with, um we've

1:33:44executed a number of amendments to

1:33:46existing contracts for design,

1:33:48permitting, and and OPM services uh for

1:33:50revised schematic design, revised

1:33:52design, development, development of

1:33:54construction, uh sorry, construction

1:33:56documents for bidding, um doing cost

1:33:58estimates along the way, etc. So, that's

1:34:00what we're working on now. Um a real

1:34:02quick review of the site. Uh the parcel

1:34:05is one shad bush road uh kind of behind

1:34:07the VFW in Strang over the industrial

1:34:09park. It is a 27 acre undeveloped

1:34:12townowned parcel um one of the if not

1:34:15the single remaining really usable

1:34:18developable town parcel which is

1:34:19important. Quick reminder that the

1:34:21natural heritage and endangered species

1:34:23program uh has mapped this parcel for

1:34:25many many years as a priority habitat.

1:34:27So mitigation requires 2 to1 ratio. Um,

1:34:30so on on-site mitigation looks would

1:34:33look like nine acres of developable land

1:34:35and then the other 18 the other

1:34:36two-thirds of the parcel going into a

1:34:38permanent conservation restriction

1:34:39forever. Um, did want to kind of

1:34:42announce tonight that the town is

1:34:44partnering with the Nantucket Land Bank

1:34:45to secure off-site mitigation. I want to

1:34:48be very clear it is not a done deal. Um,

1:34:50they are uh willing to to do that if we

1:34:53can, but it's a part of the permitting

1:34:54process. It hasn't been approved. Um,

1:34:56but it's a huge opportunity and I know

1:34:58that I've spoken with the board um over

1:35:00the last couple years about this. Um,

1:35:02you know, it's it's a a really good

1:35:04non-missed opportunity. Um, but it's a

1:35:06significant um a significant um uh well,

1:35:12I was going to say offering or or you

1:35:15know um you know on the part of the land

1:35:17bank because it would require 54 acres

1:35:19of matching mitigation land on land that

1:35:21they own to be put into a CR and require

1:35:24land management in perpetuity. So, um,

1:35:27that's what we're working towards so

1:35:28that we can try to satisfy other

1:35:30community needs on this parcel around

1:35:32the DBW and the hunting association.

1:35:35Jill,

1:35:36>> Joe,

1:35:36>> do you want to go to the end and then do

1:35:38questions or do you want me to ask along

1:35:39the way?

1:35:41>> You can ask along the way.

1:35:42>> Yeah.

1:35:43>> Yes.

1:35:45So on that um I think that they're they

1:35:50would restrict the use to recreation and

1:35:53right is that

1:35:56when when they're mitigating the land

1:35:58they can only mitigate for certain

1:35:59purposes. So it would restrict the use

1:36:01of that parcel to things that they're

1:36:04able to mitigate it for. Right.

1:36:06>> Um I'm not quite sure that's the best

1:36:10way to put it. Um, we, like I said,

1:36:14we've been working towards or we've been

1:36:17considering doing off-site mitigation

1:36:19for a couple years. There was push back

1:36:21from other local agencies as far as what

1:36:24that usage would be. Um, but obviously

1:36:27the land bank and their enabling

1:36:28legislation, it that recreation is part

1:36:31of their mission. So, I think that as

1:36:32far as them mitigating offsite for that

1:36:35purpose, it it more closely aligns. Um,

1:36:38with all that said, we we are permitting

1:36:40now for the DPW and the hunting

1:36:42association. We need to as part of the

1:36:46process be very open and honest with the

1:36:48state about what we're doing on the rest

1:36:49of the parcel and we're not sure of what

1:36:51we're doing on the rest of the parcel at

1:36:53this point. So, you know, we we need to

1:36:56be mindful of segmentation. Um, if we do

1:36:59have a plan for, you know, exactly what

1:37:00would happen on the parcel, we need to

1:37:02be upfront about that with the state.

1:37:04Um, but you know, it's it kind of

1:37:07remains to be seen. With that said, if

1:37:09we're planning for, you know, recreation

1:37:12on that parcel in the future, that

1:37:13doesn't mean that we're unable to do

1:37:15other things on that parcel in the

1:37:16future.

1:37:17>> Will you explain segmentation for the

1:37:19public? Just

1:37:20>> Yeah. As best I can. It's complicated.

1:37:24>> Fiveyear.

1:37:25>> Yeah. They they obviously well I think

1:37:27maybe the best simplest way to explain

1:37:29is they they don't appreciate a bait and

1:37:30switch which is you tell them you're

1:37:32just going to do one thing and you

1:37:33permit for that and then in pretty short

1:37:36order after so I think it's within five

1:37:38years you go back and say actually now

1:37:40I'm going to do this that or the other

1:37:41and it's especially if it's in contrast

1:37:43with what you've previously proposed.

1:37:46>> So Bobby Matt

1:37:47>> yeah Bobby

1:37:49>> right now you keep saying the hunter

1:37:51association hunter association one acre

1:37:53right that's it of the nine

1:37:56theou that the select board entered into

1:38:00with the hunting association is for 1.1

1:38:02acres that that remains unchanged.

1:38:04>> Yeah. So, it's not a I I think I think

1:38:08the public if and especially before we

1:38:12go to town meeting, if you're going to

1:38:13keep getting up and saying we're, you

1:38:15know, got an MOU with the Hunter

1:38:17Association should be very clear about

1:38:20what that means because people have

1:38:22stopped me on the street and said, "Oh,

1:38:24it's great. We're going to finally get a

1:38:25trap range and a ski range." I said,

1:38:26"No, we're not. We're going to get a if

1:38:28we're lucky, we're going to get a pistol

1:38:29range or a bow range. And maybe if we

1:38:32got really lucky and somebody raises a

1:38:35bunch of money, we might get an indoor

1:38:36shooting range. That's my understanding.

1:38:38And I think if we're going to go to

1:38:40Tommy and we're going to ask for all

1:38:41this money, we need to be crystal clear

1:38:42as to what that means because a lot of

1:38:45people think it means something

1:38:46completely different. And I guess I

1:38:48would just add to that, it's admittedly

1:38:50put me in a really tough position. That

1:38:52is not something I get to decide as the

1:38:55DBW director. So that's a select board

1:38:57decision as far as land usage. So, um,

1:39:00>> I I think it needs to be I think we need

1:39:02to have someone from the hunter

1:39:04association make a presentation to this

1:39:06board before we go to town meeting

1:39:08telling us what they plan because people

1:39:10are going to ask it at town meeting and

1:39:12someone needs to be able to answer that.

1:39:13So,

1:39:14>> yeah,

1:39:16Drew,

1:39:17>> Mr. Chair, may I

1:39:19>> Yes. So, so that information is already

1:39:22um readily available and was part of a

1:39:25public process when we uh approved an

1:39:27MOU between the hunting association and

1:39:30the select board. Um and and Bobby, to

1:39:33your point, it it bears repeating. I I

1:39:36just want to clarify what this

1:39:38opportunity is, right? Um we have choice

1:39:42A which is to develop have 9 acres of

1:39:46developable land a combination of DPW

1:39:49and what's agreed upon in theou with the

1:39:52with the hunting association of 1.1

1:39:54acres for them. So 7.9 plus 1.1

1:39:59and the rest is our mitigation. Nothing

1:40:01would ever happen. That was the original

1:40:04plan.

1:40:05What has been offered by the land bank

1:40:08is the opportunity for off-site

1:40:10mitigation which would open up the

1:40:12entire 27 acre parcel for um the

1:40:17potential for development for other

1:40:19uses. I want to remind everyone this is

1:40:22a voluntary offer from the land bank. It

1:40:27is voluntary. It is a negotiation

1:40:29between us and the land bank as to how

1:40:33that property might be used. They are

1:40:35giving up 54 acres of their property to

1:40:39mitigate our property. It is it this we

1:40:43we're not directing the land bank what

1:40:45to do. This is a a partnership between

1:40:48two organizations who have interests in

1:40:53what might happen with those additional

1:40:55acre the additional acreage that is

1:40:58going to be mitigated. So I just want to

1:41:01be really careful. Um we're not 100%

1:41:04there yet. We're in process. Um,

1:41:09and you know, I think our interests have

1:41:11to be aligned on that front and um,

1:41:15we're still having conversations with

1:41:17the land bank around that. So, it's an

1:41:20enormous opportunity for us to be able

1:41:22to do some things on land that we would

1:41:24have otherwise been unable to do

1:41:26anything because we would have had to

1:41:28put a restriction on it. So, that's

1:41:32that's where we're at. And I hope that

1:41:35helps clarify it without um

1:41:39>> if if any of us step over the line in

1:41:41things in negotiations that are ongoing,

1:41:43please, you know, walk us back. Bobby

1:41:46had a

1:41:46>> I I just um I would like I I've never

1:41:50seen a copy of theou with the with the

1:41:52Hunter Association, so I forgive me. I I

1:41:55would like to get a copy of it. I'll

1:41:56read it. I'd also like to hear from the

1:41:58president of the Hunter Association to

1:42:00confirm that they still want to continue

1:42:02forward because that acre 1.1 acres I I

1:42:06live on an acre land. It's not a lot of

1:42:08land and I don't really understand what

1:42:10they're going to be able to do with it.

1:42:11And I think they kind of took it as

1:42:13well, let's get this because it's better

1:42:15than nothing. But I'd like to hear them

1:42:17say that that they still want it because

1:42:19we could use that for something else.

1:42:20and maybe there's a possibility that

1:42:22they could put an archery range in or

1:42:24whatever they want to do on the other 27

1:42:27acres because that is considered a

1:42:28recreational use. So, you know, I just

1:42:31I'd like to revisit it before we get to

1:42:33town meeting. That's all with them.

1:42:36That's not so much with Drew. It really

1:42:38doesn't have it's with this board and

1:42:40the heart association to make sure they

1:42:41still want to continue forward.

1:42:45Um I would I was just going to add so

1:42:47well you folks were talking Rachel

1:42:48Freeman texted me um ju just to be clear

1:42:51they are not restricted as far as what

1:42:53they can mitigate for and she actually

1:42:54gave a really good example which is the

1:42:56industrial park itself was mitigated for

1:42:58in Madx Sham um like south of that

1:43:00parcel or those parcels. So yeah um

1:43:03>> that was important because I I wanted to

1:43:05make sure it wasn't just a narrow um

1:43:08use.

1:43:08>> Yep. And Bob, I can absolutely send you

1:43:10the latest plan from the hunting

1:43:11association. So you can see that which

1:43:13was indoor archery, I'm sorry, indoor

1:43:14pistol range and um outdoor archery,

1:43:17parking, etc. adjacent to the DPW um and

1:43:20the Moou as well. Happy to provide that.

1:43:24Um

1:43:26so um excuse me, [clears throat]

1:43:29as I mentioned, we had backto-back town

1:43:32meetings where our final design funding

1:43:33didn't pass. So, with the help of the

1:43:35town manager, we put together a DPW

1:43:37facility workg group, which obviously is

1:43:39not a surprise to a couple of you on the

1:43:41board, but we've never talked about

1:43:42publicly. Um,

1:43:46Bob, Jill, Brooke, um, you were all on

1:43:48the, uh, DBW facility workg group. Um,

1:43:50and no, we didn't have any open open

1:43:52meeting law violations. Jill and Bob,

1:43:54you guys weren't on the board yet. Um,

1:43:56but in addition, we had Neil Patterson

1:43:58from the land bank commission, Tim

1:43:59Brain, um, Bob Little who's on the board

1:44:02of directors for the builders

1:44:03association, and Joe Rouse. Um, not just

1:44:05saying this, I I think it's a really

1:44:07star-studded kind of well-rounded group

1:44:09of people with varied experience and and

1:44:12uh, perspectives that proved to be

1:44:14really uh, beneficial to the whole

1:44:15process. Um, so thanks again for your

1:44:17time. I really appreciate it. Um, I'll

1:44:19quickly run through some of the topics

1:44:21just for the public's benefit. Um, I'

1:44:23I'd like to think that we kind of left

1:44:24no stone unturned. We went all the way

1:44:26back to the history of the project. Um

1:44:27the need for the new facility,

1:44:29everything that had kind of been done up

1:44:30to date and then you know history of the

1:44:32site selection review of key decisions

1:44:34along the way that kind of uh recap of

1:44:37appropriations and expenditures to date

1:44:40um to you know go over the finances of

1:44:41the project. We discussed the merits of

1:44:44the project, existing conditions and

1:44:46deficiencies and micate of which there

1:44:48are plenty. Um and then we got into kind

1:44:51of our process which was how did we go

1:44:54about developing what the DBW facility

1:44:56should be and I thought that was very

1:44:58helpful. It was certainly not intended

1:44:59to convince uh workg group members that

1:45:02what the decisions we made were correct

1:45:04um but to help you know establish the

1:45:06framework and in which people you know

1:45:08on the work group should consider what

1:45:10should stay, what should go, what could

1:45:12be downsized etc and really understand

1:45:13how our department operates, who are who

1:45:16we are, what we do and what we need to

1:45:17do our jobs. Um we also discussed

1:45:20appropriate future growth uh as far as

1:45:22you know the future planning of the

1:45:23facility. Um and then even on a more

1:45:26granular basis we went through the space

1:45:27needs matrix which is basically a list

1:45:29again of everybody in the department how

1:45:31much space um that person that equipment

1:45:35etc um takes up the room data sheets

1:45:37were individual you know building blocks

1:45:40of the facility um and then our

1:45:42industrial spaces and vehicle storage. I

1:45:44think at that point it was pretty um

1:45:46interesting because you know we were

1:45:48proposing a very big facility but it was

1:45:50very much a sum of a lot of small parts

1:45:52with that said we've obviously as you'll

1:45:53see found a lot of uh areas where we

1:45:56could um could save um from there um you

1:46:01know we obviously talked about the workg

1:46:02groupoup goals um kind of working on uh

1:46:05establishing a unified vision again for

1:46:07what is it that we actually need to to

1:46:09do our jobs efficiently effectively uh

1:46:11to serve this community. We had a pretty

1:46:14lengthy discussion of the financial

1:46:15proforma or costbenefit analysis of

1:46:17indoor vehicle storage and then a

1:46:19discussion of operational necessity and

1:46:21benefits of a washbay. Um, spoiler

1:46:23alert, one of those was kept and one of

1:46:25those we got rid of. Um, we also did a

1:46:28uh field trip the Yarmouth DPW. Um,

1:46:31Jill,

1:46:32>> you're getting a washbay with the NRTA

1:46:35as well.

1:46:35>> I'm sorry.

1:46:36>> You're getting the washbay with the NRTA

1:46:38lots as well. Yeah, potentially.

1:46:40>> Yeah. Um, I've talked to Gary about that

1:46:43a couple of times over the last couple

1:46:45years, um, including just recently. I

1:46:47think the biggest challenge about that

1:46:48is he has very standard shape and size

1:46:52buses and his facility washbay is

1:46:55intended to be automated to wash those.

1:46:57So, so much of our fleet um, for DPW,

1:47:00for sewer, wouldn't be able to use that.

1:47:03It's a nice redundant thing to have. um

1:47:05maybe for passenger vehicles it's it's

1:47:07viable, but he's got 48 or 50 different

1:47:10vehicles. And the other benefit that we

1:47:12talked about as far as having a washbay

1:47:14is that it does also benefit police,

1:47:16fire, sewer, and natural resources and

1:47:18people that get their vehicles

1:47:19maintained at DBW. Um

1:47:23um so again, going back to the Yarmouth

1:47:25DBW facility tour, um those are the

1:47:27photos on the right. You can see what a

1:47:28modern code compliant maintenance garage

1:47:31in the top right looks like and then the

1:47:32aerial on the bottom. Um, it was

1:47:35definitely interesting. I think we

1:47:37learned a lot from talking to the staff

1:47:39there. Um, the dos, the don'ts, what

1:47:40they like, what they don't like. Um, I

1:47:42think there were some missed opport

1:47:44Well, in their own words, there were

1:47:45some some parts of the facility that

1:47:47were maybe even maybe missed

1:47:48opportunities or were kind of undersized

1:47:50unfortunately and they're feeling the

1:47:52the effects of that now. Um but um

1:47:56there's certainly plenty of elements

1:47:57that they couldn't speak highly enough

1:47:59about and having them today versus you

1:48:01know yesterday when when they didn't.

1:48:03They were obviously fortunate they bid

1:48:05this in 2019. Um and you know moved in

1:48:09in 2021. So they've been living and

1:48:11working in it for a couple years. I will

1:48:12also just add if you look in the aerial

1:48:14on the bottom right the salt shed in the

1:48:16back of their facility is big enough to

1:48:17like play a football game in. It's it

1:48:19was kind of insane to see. Um, and then

1:48:23we've we talked about the the baseline

1:48:25mechanical systems, how we're going to

1:48:26heat and cool the building. Um, and we

1:48:28talked about the need for a life cycle

1:48:29cost analysis. I actually just got the

1:48:32uh draft life cycle cost analysis today.

1:48:35Um, so we're going to tweak it and um

1:48:37share that with the work group for their

1:48:39review. There's definitely a leader in

1:48:40the clubhouse and spoiler alert, it's

1:48:42not geothermal. Um, we talked about

1:48:45rebates and incentives. something else

1:48:47that this project had gone on long

1:48:48enough that solar rebates um energy

1:48:51incentives started to kind of dry up or

1:48:53disappear. So, it's made us kind of go

1:48:55back to the drawing board because what

1:48:57was maybe once available is no longer

1:48:59there. Um and then a healthy discussion

1:49:01of that upfront capital cost versus

1:49:03long-term operational cost. Do we want

1:49:04to save money now and pay for it later

1:49:06or, you know, what's the right balance?

1:49:07Um and I like to think we we struck a

1:49:10good balance. Um,

1:49:13obviously I think the biggest thing that

1:49:14we that we covered was value engineering

1:49:16and what is that essential base bid that

1:49:18is, you know, super critical to our

1:49:21operations. Um, and what's a nice to

1:49:23have and what's definitely unnecessary.

1:49:25Um, and then, you know, as we headed

1:49:27into town meeting, we reviewed what was

1:49:28kept and cut. Um, and we, you know,

1:49:31updated that space needs matrix to look

1:49:33at the overall square footages of indiv

1:49:35individual spaces, but also, uh, the

1:49:37greater facility.

1:49:39um and then you know kind of strategize

1:49:41for annual town meeting. Um so again

1:49:44quick recap of where we were and it's a

1:49:46little bit shocking admittedly for me to

1:49:48look back. Um we were originally or

1:49:51previously proposing a 60 call it a

1:49:5366,000 foot building uh indoor vehicle

1:49:56storage workshop central fleet offices

1:49:59and employee facilities. Um so you can

1:50:02see the floor plan on the bottom and the

1:50:04uh the rendering in the top right. It

1:50:06also had a 8,000 foot canopy for um

1:50:09equipment and vehicles that wouldn't

1:50:10maybe be stored inside to live outdoors.

1:50:13Um and again we had a a healthy

1:50:15discussion of does that really even

1:50:16benefit us given our environment out

1:50:19here on the island. Um as far as the

1:50:21site, originally the proposal was 7.9

1:50:24acres uh outlined in the dashed red uh

1:50:28with of course a salt shed, a fuel

1:50:30island and parking and material storage.

1:50:33So, what do we do about it? Um,

1:50:36obviously the previous proposal wasn't

1:50:38super palatable to the public. It was a

1:50:40huge facility. It was going to be very

1:50:41costly. Um, and when we, you know,

1:50:43worked through it with the work group,

1:50:45we identified things that could be

1:50:47eliminated, such as the indoor vehicle

1:50:49storage garage. So, we have entirely

1:50:51eliminated that from the plan, including

1:50:54the 8,000t canopy. Um, there were some

1:50:56smaller things, and every little thing

1:50:57that we cut does save money. Um like the

1:51:00fitness room, we looked at that as very

1:51:01much lowhanging fruit and kind of a nice

1:51:03to have. Um sure, happy, healthy

1:51:06employees are good employees. Um but

1:51:08when it came time to say if we're going

1:51:10to cut anything, can we cut, you know,

1:51:12um the muster room where we can do

1:51:14training um or the fitness room, it was

1:51:18the fitness room that made it to the

1:51:19cutting floor. Um

1:51:22another big thing that we cut was one of

1:51:23the central fleet garage bays. Uh, so

1:51:25the central fleet maintenance is

1:51:26obviously in that purple area over on

1:51:29the right. U, we had four garage bays.

1:51:31We currently have four garage bays, but

1:51:33these are all much deeper. So we took a

1:51:35longer harder look at it and we

1:51:37realized, you know, with the amount of

1:51:38space um, in the facility as you're

1:51:41currently seeing it on the screen, we

1:51:43could still actually get more vehicles

1:51:44and large larger longer vehicles inside

1:51:46and work safely around them. But by

1:51:48eliminating a drive-through bay, we

1:51:50actually got rid of a bay um that has

1:51:53two garage doors. So that also helps in

1:51:55terms of energy efficiency of the

1:51:57overall facility. Um you can obviously

1:52:00see on the right we also made this

1:52:02facility a lot more um compact and

1:52:05condensed. So it was very much kind of a

1:52:07longer facility um with the indoor

1:52:10vehicle storage garage adjacent to that.

1:52:13Um and so kind of out of necessity but

1:52:15also to take advantage of the

1:52:16opportunity. We've kind of reimagined

1:52:18this floor plan and we've eliminated

1:52:20hundreds of feet of exterior wall space

1:52:23which is expensive to build and not the

1:52:25most energy efficient. Um and even even

1:52:28just by doing that we've saved a lot of

1:52:29square footage on circulation and

1:52:32hallways and things like that. Um, so

1:52:34this more compact design really doesn't

1:52:36sacrifice anything beyond what we

1:52:38thought was appropriate and what we

1:52:39discussed with the work group, but it's

1:52:41it's yielded some really good square

1:52:44footage and thus dollars savings.

1:52:47As I mentioned, we also reduced some

1:52:49areas. Um, so the offices we reduced by

1:52:522,700 ft². We reduced the employee

1:52:55facilities, which is locker rooms,

1:52:56muster room, and our foreman's offices.

1:52:59We reduced that by 2500 square f feet.

1:53:02And then again, the central fleet

1:53:03garage, the majority of that reduction

1:53:05is related to the drive-through bay. Um,

1:53:09we're looking at, and these are very

1:53:10round numbers. We haven't done an a cost

1:53:12estimate in two years, but if if we were

1:53:15looking at $1,000 a square foot, then

1:53:18the reduction of 2,000 ft is $2 million.

1:53:21Same with the uh employee facilities and

1:53:23office areas. And obviously the indoor

1:53:26vehicle storage garage is the major

1:53:27reduction. Um although that was not the

1:53:30most expensive part of the facility. So

1:53:32it's certainly not a one:1 ratio as far

1:53:35as you know uh dollars per square foot

1:53:37cut. Um but we do expect some very very

1:53:40significant cost savings with this

1:53:41approach without sacrificing our ability

1:53:44to actually function and serve this

1:53:45community. Um and then beyond that I

1:53:48mean other than some very minor square

1:53:50footage um reductions if anything the

1:53:53workshops and the wash bay relatively

1:53:54remain the same but everything else was

1:53:56was tweaked. Um, so pretty much a

1:53:59complete overhaul. And then if you're

1:54:00wondering, the gray areas on there are

1:54:03um mechanical, fire protection,

1:54:05plumbing, electrical, telephone, data

1:54:08room, stuff like that. So

1:54:10um so what does it look like? Um on the

1:54:14right you can see the old facility um

1:54:17and the new facility side by side. They

1:54:18are to scale. Um

1:54:22all of those reductions add up to a

1:54:2456.5% reduction in the overall square

1:54:26footage of the facility. Um when we

1:54:28ended our workg groupoup meetings in

1:54:29April, I think we were um committed to

1:54:3255% and like I said, you know, we we

1:54:34were actually able to make it even a

1:54:36little more efficient than that once we

1:54:37got into revising the floor plan. Um the

1:54:40site itself also was condensed because

1:54:43of the the shape and size of the

1:54:44building. So we're down from 7.9 acres

1:54:46to about 6.2, 2, which is a 21.5%

1:54:50reduction. Um, you know, eliminating the

1:54:53indoor vehicle storage and the canopy.

1:54:55Um, obviously now those vehicles still

1:54:57need to live somewhere. They're going to

1:54:58live outside. Um, but, you know, I think

1:55:01that 21.5% reduction is another thing

1:55:03that will yield some cost savings. It's

1:55:06less tree clearing. It's less maybe

1:55:07asphalt or gravel, less drainage, things

1:55:10like that. Um, we've revised the salt

1:55:12shed design. I didn't want to make these

1:55:14slides way too busy, but we had a really

1:55:16nice salt shed design that we brought in

1:55:19front of HDC and we're going to go with

1:55:21a much simpler metal structure with a

1:55:23fabric roof. Um, and then a repurposed

1:55:26fuel island um in the last couple

1:55:29months. We actually got a used, very

1:55:31gently used um doublewalled uh fuel tank

1:55:35for the DPW for diesel and gas. So,

1:55:37that's actually in the process of being

1:55:39hooked up now and we'll just take that

1:55:40with us when we go. Um, and then of

1:55:42course, yeah, parking and material

1:55:43storage. I will say, Bob, I I want to

1:55:46give you credit where it's due. I think

1:55:48this was your idea during the uh the

1:55:50workg groupoup sessions. So, we talked

1:55:52about what was happening, what would

1:55:54happen to the 180 matica road facility

1:55:56and um all but three buildings are not

1:55:59structurally sound and and will just be

1:56:01demolished. Um but the operations garage

1:56:04which is

1:56:06um metal building and then the central

1:56:08fleet garage are are fit to remain

1:56:11standing but not really obviously

1:56:13serving the purpose that we need them to

1:56:15and not big enough for our operations.

1:56:16So at one point we talked about moving

1:56:19those buildings which would be a lowcost

1:56:22solution um but there is a cost to

1:56:25moving the buildings over to Shadbush

1:56:27but also they would have to be brought

1:56:28up to code. So um by eliminating vehicle

1:56:31storage and the canopy we discussed

1:56:34using 188 maticquette those two metal

1:56:36buildings as cold storage seasonally. So

1:56:39the benefit there is you know you get at

1:56:40least 6 months of our plows and

1:56:42spreaders through the summer months

1:56:43indoors out of the salt air out of the

1:56:45rain out of the sun. Um and then in the

1:56:47winter it's our roadside mowing

1:56:49equipment and other stuff. Um but in

1:56:52addition to that we have a lot of

1:56:53attachments that we don't use very

1:56:55regularly but we we need them when we

1:56:57need them. We use them once a week, once

1:56:59a month, etc. And they're very costly

1:57:01for, you know, attachments for our skid

1:57:02steer, our backho, things like that.

1:57:05I've always said that those things age a

1:57:07lot more just being stored outside than

1:57:10they actually, you know, age and break

1:57:12down while they're in use. So, getting

1:57:14those indoors is also going to be a huge

1:57:16long-term kind of cost savings benefit

1:57:18for the town. Um,

1:57:21and actually that I think that uh

1:57:23Yarmouth did the exact same thing with

1:57:25one of the metal buildings over at their

1:57:26facility when they built a new one. They

1:57:28have a a cold storage. So, you know, a

1:57:30very pretty much a nocost solution uh to

1:57:33getting some storage indoors for our

1:57:35equipment. Um, and then, you know, we

1:57:37really don't we're not going to heat it.

1:57:38We're not going to cool it. It's turn

1:57:40the lights on every now and then if

1:57:41we're over there and it's dark.

1:57:44Um,

1:57:46you said we're going to demolish the

1:57:48other buildings, which I agree with,

1:57:49except one question. The office building

1:57:52could potentially be turned into a

1:57:54residence either for a town employee

1:57:57that we could put on, relocate onto a

1:57:59town piece of land, or we could at least

1:58:01see if somebody else wanted that

1:58:02building. It would be not too hard to

1:58:04move. It's before the bridges. There's

1:58:06no wires on Madak Road. So before we

1:58:08just go knock it down and we have some

1:58:10time, we might want to think about

1:58:11trying to reuse that building. Yeah, it

1:58:14could potentially be turned into a into

1:58:16a house.

1:58:17>> Yep. No, that uh the office building was

1:58:20never considered to be a demolish, but

1:58:22the salt shed that's got to be

1:58:23demolished. It might get demolished this

1:58:25weekend.

1:58:25>> Carpenter shed, all that

1:58:26>> winds.

1:58:27>> Yeah. Um

1:58:29>> doesn't fall down on its own anyway. So

1:58:31>> yeah, that's what I'm most worried

1:58:32about. Um and then I just included this.

1:58:35I got this uh in the last week or week

1:58:37and a half. So, kind of a first look at

1:58:40um where we're at architecturally. I

1:58:41mean, it it's not that big of a

1:58:43departure from the previous facility as

1:58:45far as the architectural features, u

1:58:47metal building in the back, shingles

1:58:49just on the administration, you know,

1:58:51area up front, the offices and employee

1:58:53facilities. Um but obviously, from a

1:58:55scale perspective, it's a far cry from

1:58:58what we've previously proposed. Um but

1:59:00with that said, you know, our staff, I

1:59:01think we've had a good process all

1:59:03along. Um, all of my managers, my deputy

1:59:05directors have been involved in this.

1:59:07We've brought in different staff members

1:59:08along the way from our mechanic to make

1:59:10sure that the central fleet garage and

1:59:11all the industrial equipment is

1:59:13accounted for and and located

1:59:15appropriately so that when we're running

1:59:17conduit and water and drains inside the

1:59:19building that they're they're where they

1:59:21need to be and everyone's still very

1:59:22excited about this. So, um, you know,

1:59:24again, I appreciate everybody's time and

1:59:26input along the way. I think uh it was a

1:59:28really really good outcome um leading up

1:59:30to town meeting and you know we're

1:59:31carrying through you know what we said

1:59:33uh we we would do coming out of those

1:59:35work group meetings. Um and then just

1:59:38kind of wanted to give a a quick

1:59:40overview of the schedule going forward.

1:59:41I know we touched on this a little bit

1:59:43um recently when we had amendments for

1:59:46our consultants in front of the select

1:59:48board. Um so we've already revised or

1:59:51completed the schematic design revision.

1:59:53Um, as I mentioned, the HVAC life cycle

1:59:56cost analysis just came in. So, we're

1:59:58going to polish that, kind of tweak it,

1:59:59and make sure that all the numbers are

2:00:01as accurate as could possibly be while

2:00:03also trying to predict the future. Um,

2:00:05and then in the next couple weeks, we're

2:00:07going to revise the design development

2:00:09phase. And again, the schematic design,

2:00:12the design development, and then the

2:00:14cost, I'm sorry, the construction

2:00:15documents. It's essentially the same

2:00:17picture that gets sharper and sharper

2:00:19and sharper over time. has a lot more

2:00:20detail and as such we're doing cost

2:00:22estimates at the 60% DD um phase in

2:00:26October, November and that's kind of our

2:00:28first temperature check on how are we

2:00:30doing on cost and what more can we

2:00:32possibly do or what do we need to do um

2:00:34to keep costs under control and then

2:00:37they'll work on a 90% um refined set of

2:00:41construction documents. We'll do another

2:00:43cost estimate before spending the last

2:00:46month putting all of the finishing

2:00:47touches on the construction documents.

2:00:49And then February uh through April, we

2:00:53would plan on bidding the project with

2:00:54filed sub bids in chapter, you know, in

2:00:56line with chapter 149 public

2:00:58procurement, obviously in advance of uh

2:01:002027 annual town meeting on May 10th. So

2:01:03that's where we are right now and where

2:01:05we're planning to go. Um and that's all

2:01:10I have. Um, and obviously available for

2:01:12any questions you guys may have.

2:01:15>> All right. Do we have any questions,

2:01:17Brooke or Don?

2:01:20>> Okay.

2:01:21>> I just have one comment. When you get

2:01:23the bid, the final number,

2:01:26if it's possible to do, I would love to

2:01:29see the cost for the actual building and

2:01:32the cost for the infrastructure because

2:01:35there's a lot of infrastructure here.

2:01:36road, sewer, electrical, all that stuff

2:01:39needs to get brought in pretty

2:01:40significant distance. So, I'd like to

2:01:43see that separately. It helps me to

2:01:45>> Yeah.

2:01:46>> justify the numbers.

2:01:47>> Um, and I can share with you the cost

2:01:49estimate that we last did, but that was

2:01:51it wasn't No, I'm just saying

2:01:53>> it now just when we get down to the

2:01:55nitty-gritty of it. I'd like to be able

2:01:56to look at the two, you know.

2:01:57>> Yep. We did that in the spring of 2024.

2:02:00Didn't have the results in time for that

2:02:02town meeting. Um, and it's very detailed

2:02:05in terms of all the different elements

2:02:07of of the building and the site and the

2:02:09utilities. To your point, I glad you

2:02:11bring that up. You know, like I said,

2:02:12it's not a 1:1 ratio. If we cut 56.5% of

2:02:15the building, we don't save 56.5% of the

2:02:18money. The water man is still the same

2:02:19length. The roadway, you know,

2:02:21improvements out to the site are the

2:02:22same. Um, but obviously we've done some

2:02:24really significant reductions. But yeah,

2:02:26it's the septic system that doesn't

2:02:27change. It's the same amount of people

2:02:28using the same amount of water. So, um,

2:02:31you know, we're we're going to continue

2:02:32to do whatever we can to keep costs as

2:02:34low as possible. Um, and we'll give you

2:02:36guys updates on those cost estimates or,

2:02:39you know, the temperature checks as I've

2:02:41been calling them along the way so that,

2:02:42you know, we kind of know where we're

2:02:44headed. So

2:02:45>> also piggybacking on to the town doing

2:02:48the infrastructure that was a big

2:02:50positive for the hunting association in

2:02:53those ne in those discussions that was

2:02:55one of the things that they really

2:02:57realized if they did it themselves and

2:02:58they had to do all that whereas this is

2:03:00all going to be brought right to their

2:03:02door. I know that that was something

2:03:04that they were happy about. Right. Is

2:03:07there anyone else anything else on this

2:03:08guys?

2:03:10Okay let's move on Drew to road work.

2:03:13Sure.

2:03:14>> Thanks.

2:03:16>> Um, so yeah, we try to annually come and

2:03:18give uh an update on all transportation

2:03:21and roadway related projects and

2:03:23obviously we're we're back into

2:03:24construction season um now that it's

2:03:26after Labor Day. So uh quick look at our

2:03:28road resurfacing. I will just start by

2:03:30saying in in years past and in recent

2:03:32years with final paving of the sewer

2:03:35force main project from sea street all

2:03:37the way to the sewer treatment plant. Um

2:03:38there's been seasons where Victor is

2:03:40extremely busy and I I don't exactly

2:03:42have his full attention. I'm very

2:03:44fortunate this fall. Um I have his

2:03:46undivided attention. Um so I'm sure you

2:03:49noticed uh if you've driven around

2:03:50Scottet or you know Surfside Road for

2:03:52example, we we got an early start this

2:03:54year on milling. Um, so the Mid Island

2:03:56area where we've already milled Surfside

2:03:58Road from Fairgrounds all the way to

2:04:00Surfside Beach and the last 150 ft or so

2:04:03of fair of fairgrounds, uh, where the

2:04:04pavement was starting to break up and we

2:04:06had some shoving and and rudding issues.

2:04:08Um, and then William Street from

2:04:10Cumberland Farms up to Pleasant has

2:04:11already been mil. Might need to do that

2:04:14again. Um, and then New Street was on

2:04:16the list, but Keing um, Victor

2:04:19subcontractor didn't have time to do it,

2:04:20but they'll be back in October for a

2:04:22private project, so they'll get to it

2:04:23when when they return. And then we had

2:04:25kind of a targeted focus on Scottet this

2:04:27season. Um a Shell Street from Coffin

2:04:31where we left off with the intersection

2:04:33improvement project a couple years ago

2:04:35bringing that all the way into uh Pump

2:04:37House Square and then Center Street

2:04:39which according to some of the residents

2:04:40hasn't been repaved in 46 years. Um and

2:04:44then Elbow Lane behind the market and

2:04:45West Sankity Road. Um, so those all the

2:04:48roads inconset uh have already been mil

2:04:51and Victor will be working through

2:04:52paving those in addition to the bike

2:04:53path on Lovers and Monahanset and doing

2:04:55final paving for the Surfside project.

2:04:58Um, we also got an early start on

2:05:00sidewalks. So on the right is a map that

2:05:02I provided for the or developed and

2:05:05provided for the capital program

2:05:06committee.

2:05:08And it not that we need to go through

2:05:10the history of what we've accomplished

2:05:11in recent years, but the yellow, the

2:05:13red, the orange, those areas uh were

2:05:15sidewalks that we focused on the last

2:05:17couple fiscal years. And then purple was

2:05:19kind of what we were prioritizing for

2:05:21this fiscal year, which is basically

2:05:23connecting the sidewalks that were

2:05:26reconstructed on Center Street um to

2:05:29other sidewalks on in the broad and

2:05:31center street area. Um, so Victor's crew

2:05:34already got started doing two sections

2:05:35of sidewalk on Center Street. And then

2:05:37last fiscal year we did more of spot

2:05:40repairs, but um, a lot of the area

2:05:43between Broad Street and Sea Street and

2:05:45Step Lane on Northwater. So we want to

2:05:47continue that out towards Eastn Street.

2:05:50Um, and then in the spring um, if not

2:05:54sooner, um, we also want to focus on

2:05:57Union Street. There's a couple really

2:05:58spotty areas um from essentially Salt

2:06:01Marsh Way um heading back towards Consu

2:06:03Springs. Um

2:06:06we have a consultant um Apex who um is

2:06:09working actively right now on a bid

2:06:11package for preventive maintenance,

2:06:12crack sailing mastic and spot repairs um

2:06:15including repaving uh of our bike paths

2:06:18across the island. They did a condition

2:06:19assessment of all 35 miles of our bike

2:06:21paths and mapped essentially every

2:06:23defect. Um, and then another thing we've

2:06:25been actively working on, um, is just

2:06:27improved safety signage on our bike

2:06:29paths, which is, um, pictured on the

2:06:32right there. Um, the intersection

2:06:34warning signs, removing the stop signs

2:06:36at non- major intersections. And then

2:06:38that speed limit 20 sign is a um,

2:06:44I don't even know what you call it, but

2:06:46a hypothetical sign that we've been kind

2:06:48of working on as far as kind of the not

2:06:50the rules of the road, but the rules of

2:06:51the bike path in terms of speed and

2:06:52helmets and stuff like that. So, um,

2:06:55>> how many signs do we need?

2:06:57>> What's that?

2:06:58>> How many signs do we need?

2:07:00>> So, we're we're swapping out stop signs.

2:07:03Let me go back. We're swapping out stop

2:07:04signs for those, and we're not adding

2:07:07those at new intersections.

2:07:08>> The

2:07:10little signs, but this thing

2:07:13>> that

2:07:14>> was that Erica,

2:07:15>> why don't we just tattoo it on every

2:07:16kid's forehead when they buy a bike? You

2:07:18know, it's just it's put it on the bike.

2:07:20put the sticker on the bike when they

2:07:22buy it or at school when they b when

2:07:24they come and get their school sticker,

2:07:26they have to put that sticker on there

2:07:27that says they can only go 20 because

2:07:29none of them are gonna blow right by

2:07:31that sign. You can put it up all you

2:07:32want, but they're not going to stop or

2:07:33go slower.

2:07:36>> Keep going, please.

2:07:37>> Um, so quick update on the Surfside

2:07:40project. I know Jill already mentioned.

2:07:42Um, so we again got to kind of early

2:07:45start this season on leverage lane. And

2:07:47just to kind of recap essentially all

2:07:49the steps of construction for these

2:07:51roads in green, you can see what's been

2:07:53completed. So storm water

2:07:54infrastructure, the road construction

2:07:56itself and the subbase and then binder

2:07:59course pavement on the roads has been

2:08:00completed. And now uh you can see in the

2:08:02photo on the right, that's a photo taken

2:08:05uh just south of the disc golf parking

2:08:07lot. the bike path binder course

2:08:09pavement has been done. So, they're

2:08:10working on installing the additional

2:08:13traffic calming uh elements on lovers,

2:08:15the raised intersections. They've

2:08:17already started spreading lom and

2:08:18they're getting ready to do landscaping.

2:08:20And then once that's done, because all

2:08:21that all requires equipment, then

2:08:23they'll come through and do the top

2:08:24course pavement on the bike path and the

2:08:26roadway. So, um I know CC Construction's

2:08:28goal is that Monahansa and Lovers are

2:08:31100% done before the holidays this year.

2:08:33Um, so I'm kind of got ahead of myself,

2:08:35but Monahansson Road, you can see it's

2:08:37in the exact same status as far as

2:08:39what's been done. Um, so the bike path

2:08:42has been paved from Orca all the way

2:08:45back to the airport. There are a couple

2:08:46little spots that were skipped on lovers

2:08:48in Monahanset. We're still waiting for

2:08:49utility relocations and then those will

2:08:52be patched um obviously in advance of

2:08:54top course.

2:08:56And then

2:08:56>> can I just interject that it was such a

2:08:59relief

2:09:00>> to see people young kids on that bike

2:09:05path on it today. Like I honestly it was

2:09:07a different driving experience because I

2:09:09go early in the morning and I'm always

2:09:12worried I'm going to hit somebody. A lot

2:09:14of people like to walk down to that

2:09:15beach there. I it was just like a total

2:09:18difference. Thank you. Thank you.

2:09:21>> And I appreciate that. I mean, I I think

2:09:22we've been saying since day one, you

2:09:24know, we had public meetings a couple

2:09:25years ago in the summer, and the

2:09:27combination of improved road conditions,

2:09:30dedicated path to get users out of the

2:09:32road, and improved sight lines alone,

2:09:34just those three are going to

2:09:36dramatically, and and I think you're

2:09:37already seeing it, improve safety in

2:09:39these areas. Um, the last road in the

2:09:42project is Orca. Um, I know it's very

2:09:45busy, but that screenshot on the right

2:09:48is from our design plans. Um, anything

2:09:51you see in color is a underground

2:09:52utility. So there's water manes, there's

2:09:54drainage infrastructure, there's

2:09:56underground electric, telephone, Comcast

2:09:59crossings at the intersection, etc. So

2:10:02um, we have not started doing the

2:10:03drainage infrastructure on Orca yet u

2:10:06because we are waiting on all three

2:10:08utility companies to relocate

2:10:09underground utilities or above ground

2:10:12transformer um, hand holes and uh,

2:10:15pedestals etc. So, we expect that

2:10:17that'll happen soon, but that's why CC

2:10:19is focusing on getting lovers and

2:10:20monahans up to 100% at this time. Um,

2:10:24and then just want to give a really

2:10:25quick update on some other projects.

2:10:27Obviously, we're we have a lot going on.

2:10:29Um, Sparks have side path, which goes

2:10:31from the high school through the Rotary

2:10:33up to Gold Star and Milestone uh

2:10:36Milestone Lane. Um, that should be going

2:10:39out to bid mid-occtober. I discussed the

2:10:42bid schedule with Cindy from our

2:10:44procurement office again earlier this

2:10:46week. Shortly behind that, we want to

2:10:48bid the Tom Nevers bike path. We've

2:10:50received final uh permits for that

2:10:52project and it's ready to go out to bid.

2:10:54And then again, shortly after that,

2:10:56we're looking to bid New Town Road. I

2:10:58will say a lot of actually the the next

2:11:00presentation you'll see a lot of times

2:11:02when we bid quote unquote smaller

2:11:04projects, we don't always get the

2:11:05world's greatest bid prices, especially

2:11:07if the contractor needs to mobilize over

2:11:08to the island. Um, so because these are

2:11:12kind of all coming up uh at the same

2:11:13time to be ready to bid, we're hoping

2:11:15that we can kind of bid them in quick

2:11:16succession and get some more interest

2:11:18and make it worth someone's time to come

2:11:19over and ideally have a sharp enough

2:11:21pencil to win all, you know, two or

2:11:23three of those projects. Um, and then of

2:11:25course we've got a couple projects that

2:11:26are in design as we speak. So, Pleasant

2:11:28Street in both corners, I'm sorry, in

2:11:30both directions from five corners out to

2:11:33Main Street and then back to the Sparks

2:11:34Rotary, the Wallwin at Bike Path, which

2:11:36I believe Mike is giving an update on in

2:11:38a couple weeks. And as Libby mentioned,

2:11:40there's the Milestone Road Milestone

2:11:43Rotary reconstruction, which is being

2:11:44spearheaded by Mass D, but obviously has

2:11:46plenty of input from town uh town staff.

2:11:50And then beyond that, uh the Milestone

2:11:52Nobody Farm intersection improvements.

2:11:53So, a lot of projects in the works, but

2:11:56it's nice to see those three getting bid

2:11:58soon. And it's really nice that we have

2:12:00projects underway and they're, you know,

2:12:02actively being constructed cuz that's

2:12:03that's the fun part for me at least, you

2:12:05know, when you get to see it get built.

2:12:06These plans are only as good as what we

2:12:08see happen out in the real world. Um, so

2:12:11that's exciting. Any questions

2:12:15>> from the board? No. Amy, did you have a

2:12:16question?

2:12:18>> Come on up.

2:12:21through the board too. Drew, is there

2:12:23any time frame for looking at coming

2:12:27down Prospect Street to the stop sign by

2:12:30the hospital where it's like rudded and

2:12:32as you pull up to the new Rotary by the

2:12:35fire station where it's like kind of

2:12:38channeled like if you look the the road

2:12:40kind of goes like this.

2:12:42Is can there be harder asphalt? Is it

2:12:45not a good mix? because it just seems

2:12:48like it's weird that in one side of the

2:12:50road and I don't know if it's from the

2:12:5118 wheelers going coming down from the

2:12:53dump, but it's just kind of waffly and

2:12:57bumpy and just kind of odd and if that

2:13:00could be something that could get looked

2:13:01at because it is kind of like hard on

2:13:03your front end. Thanks.

2:13:07>> Sure. Through you mr. Chair. Um yeah,

2:13:10absolutely. actually um if you drive the

2:13:12Sparks rotary from really any direction

2:13:14and stop and take a close look that

2:13:17pavement um ruting or um it's kind of

2:13:21gets squished out and it and it is

2:13:24largely because of Yes, it's it's heavy

2:13:26trucks and heavy truck traffic, but the

2:13:27same turning movements constantly. I did

2:13:29go out with Victor and walk that. It

2:13:31wasn't the top of our priority list for

2:13:33this fall because I would like to get

2:13:35ahead of problems like potholes that are

2:13:38consistently coming up over the winter,

2:13:40but if we don't get to it this fall when

2:13:42they bring Keening back out in October,

2:13:44it'll definitely be on the spring list.

2:13:46Um, but there are a number of areas uh

2:13:48even down by the Whailing Museum on

2:13:49South Water Street. Um, and again, we

2:13:51did at the very end of fairgrounds, we

2:13:53captured that already, um, when we did

2:13:54Surfside. So, trying to be mindful of

2:13:56those areas. I guess with that said,

2:13:58they weren't necessarily going to be um

2:14:02our biggest pothole offenders this

2:14:05season, but they do pose challenges when

2:14:07it comes to plowing because those blades

2:14:09are straight and then the road has some,

2:14:11you know, kind of curvature to it. So,

2:14:13um yeah, those will definitely be

2:14:15incorporated in future. Um

2:14:18>> you want to go to Nobody Fields.

2:14:21>> Sure. Um, I'm not sure how much folks

2:14:24are um familiar with this project. Um,

2:14:26but the scope of this project is

2:14:28basically to add a a new uh additional

2:14:33full-size natural grass field east of

2:14:35the existing synthe synthetic turf

2:14:37field. So, between the turf field and

2:14:39Noader Farm Road. Um, it also includes a

2:14:41new parking lot and a realigned driveway

2:14:43coming into the site. um a new

2:14:46playground and there was actually also a

2:14:48separate appropriation for the

2:14:49playground itself but the site work for

2:14:51the playground is included in this

2:14:53project. Um because the existing

2:14:55irrigation well so the irrigation of

2:14:57this facility is not on town water um

2:15:00because the irrigation well that

2:15:02currently exists uh does not have the

2:15:03capacities to support another field. We

2:15:06are installing a new irrigation well and

2:15:09tying them in together so that there's

2:15:11some redundancy. Um, we also had sports

2:15:14lighting for the turf field in this

2:15:17plan. Uh, a shed for the irrigation and

2:15:19lighting controls, two new scoreboards,

2:15:22um, up at the north end of the parcel

2:15:24between the turf field and the new

2:15:25fields, and then obviously some

2:15:27walkways, and then we also figured,

2:15:29well, the whole area is going to be torn

2:15:31up. There's a new sewer line that was

2:15:32extended for the airport housing

2:15:34project. Although there is a septic

2:15:36system there that's only a couple years

2:15:37old, we figured for what we thought

2:15:39would be relatively short money, we

2:15:41might as well put in a dry sewer line

2:15:42now for future connection. Um, so this

2:15:46was approved at the 2023 annual town

2:15:48election and then subsequently at the 23

2:15:50special town meeting and the

2:15:51appropriation was $3.8 million.

2:15:54So in February, we bid the project um

2:15:58after design the available budget for

2:16:00construction was called 3.4 million. The

2:16:04bid results were 4.3, 4.8, $5.2 million.

2:16:08Um, so obviously all of the bids were

2:16:10rejected.

2:16:13Okay.

2:16:15Um, so we went back to the drawing

2:16:16board. We revised the scope of the

2:16:19project to basically focus on what is

2:16:22most critical and what could we maybe do

2:16:24separately or at a future date. So, in

2:16:27this base bid, when we rebid it

2:16:29recently, we included the full-size

2:16:30natural grass field, the parking lot,

2:16:32and the realigned driveway. Um,

2:16:34obviously, we need more parking if we're

2:16:35going to create another field for

2:16:37regular use. Do the playground um site

2:16:40work as part of this project. Obviously,

2:16:43need to put in the irrigation well to

2:16:44support the new uh natural grass fields.

2:16:47Do the irrigation for the field only.

2:16:50Um, and then the shed to support the

2:16:51irrigation and lighting controls and the

2:16:53walkways. The alternates

2:16:56were the scoreboards for the new field

2:16:58and for the turf field that dry low

2:17:00pressure sewer line and the non-field

2:17:01irrigation followed by the sports

2:17:03lighting. I do think it's important to

2:17:05note that the alternates must be awarded

2:17:07in order. We can't jump down and say

2:17:09I'll take alternate three but I'll pass

2:17:11on one and two. So if you're going to

2:17:12award three, you need to award one, two,

2:17:14and three. That's just how procurement

2:17:17works.

2:17:18Um, the other reason that we put them in

2:17:20this order was we had a pretty good

2:17:22handle on what these things should have

2:17:23cost. And so the scoreboards we were

2:17:27pretty confident should be in the

2:17:28$35,000 range. The sewer line should be

2:17:30in the $25,000 range. The non-field

2:17:32irrigation would be a little bit more

2:17:33and the light the lighting would be most

2:17:35expensive. So again, because you have to

2:17:36award in order, we figured, well, we

2:17:38might as well get three if if we can't

2:17:39get all four, I'd rather get three of

2:17:41these things. Um, so we re rebid the

2:17:45project in August. Again, that same

2:17:47available budget of 3.4. Um, I'm not

2:17:50going to put the I didn't put the

2:17:51company or the contractor names on

2:17:53there, but bidder A, B, C, and we we got

2:17:55four bids this time. We had three bids

2:17:57last time. Um, they're fairly

2:17:59competitive. The base bids were all

2:18:01pretty close. Um, you can see bidder A

2:18:03was the low bid on the base bid. It's

2:18:06really interesting when you look at

2:18:07alternates 1, two, three, and four, and

2:18:10how big of a difference there were

2:18:11between the the low bid. And I put them

2:18:14in bold. So the scoreboards, the low bid

2:18:16was bidder D at 50,000, but someone had

2:18:20bid 168,000. And then the dry sewer line

2:18:23was 24,000 for one contractor and 88,000

2:18:26for another contractor. The non-field

2:18:28irrigation was anywhere between 75 and

2:18:30180. And then the sports lighting was

2:18:32anywhere between 416, sorry, 417 and

2:18:35600,000.

2:18:37So it's kind of complicated because of

2:18:39the way that you uh have to award

2:18:42alternates in order. If we did alternate

2:18:44one, it would be certain contractor. If

2:18:45we did one and two, it'd be a different

2:18:47contractor, etc., etc. But as you can

2:18:49see, we really don't have funding to do

2:18:51anything other than the base bid. Um,

2:18:53and I just wanted to remind that, you

2:18:56know, those base bids we were talking

2:18:58about the I'm sorry, I'll go back. The

2:19:003.356

2:19:02million or the low base bid um obviously

2:19:05doesn't include construction

2:19:06administration. um you know reviewing

2:19:09shop drawings, handling uh payrex and

2:19:11change orders, project closeout,

2:19:13periodic inspections, etc. Um and

2:19:16typically I think it's safe to say that

2:19:18maybe at a minimum going into a project

2:19:20like this, we would like to have at

2:19:21least a 5% contingency, which is about

2:19:24167,000.

2:19:25So, as I mentioned, there was a separate

2:19:27appropriation for the playground.

2:19:30Um I think it was just over $600,000

2:19:33total for the playground, all inclusive.

2:19:36There is $399,000 remaining in that

2:19:38appropriation. Uh last fiscal year, we

2:19:41purchased the playground structure only

2:19:43uh you know on the equipment on its own

2:19:45and it's been delivered to the site. So

2:19:47we need to do surfacing after the site

2:19:49work is done and hire someone to install

2:19:51it. Um but the other important thing to

2:19:54note was all of those alternates, the

2:19:55scoreboard, the lighting, etc. still

2:19:58included in the base bid was the

2:19:59conduit, the hand holes, and the

2:20:01concrete foundations. So, um, long story

2:20:04short, we're we're set up good in a good

2:20:07place where we don't need to dig up the

2:20:08fields again if we want to do the

2:20:09scoreboard or we want to do the lights.

2:20:11So, that stuff's included now, but the

2:20:12the scoreboard and the lights is is kind

2:20:15of a that's the challenge right now is,

2:20:17you know, to figure out if and how we

2:20:19can afford that. Um, so as such, the

2:20:23recommendation from, you know, me and my

2:20:25department is that we would award the

2:20:26base bid only. Um, and then we would

2:20:28seek other avenues for those alternates

2:20:30in the future. I think, you know, as

2:20:32much as it would be great to do all of

2:20:34these things, um I'll go back to it real

2:20:36quick. We didn't exactly get excellent

2:20:39pricing on the alternates, um and so as

2:20:42much as we may want to do them now, um I

2:20:45think that we could do them at a later

2:20:47date for even cheaper than what you know

2:20:49was was bid on. Um so

2:20:53>> I have a I have a question on that on

2:20:54the bidding process. If you take the

2:20:56base bid, you just pick the lowest. Do

2:20:59you have to then go with that bidder

2:21:01again for the others or you rebid 1 2 3

2:21:04and four?

2:21:06>> So, uh, if I I think I understand your

2:21:09question. So, if we said I had $3.5

2:21:12million instead of 3.4, four, then we

2:21:15could award

2:21:17the base bid and alternate one, but that

2:21:20would actually go to bidder D because

2:21:22>> their combined total is lowest when you

2:21:25look at the base and alternate one. If

2:21:27we said we had enough money for base

2:21:29bid, alternate one, and alternate two,

2:21:30we would actually be awarding to bidder

2:21:32C. And so that's why I was saying it

2:21:34kind of changes who you would award to

2:21:36depending on what alternates you're

2:21:38willing to award.

2:21:39>> And if you did three, you'd go to D

2:21:41again.

2:21:42>> Exactly. And if we went with all of the

2:21:44alternates, it would be back to same.

2:21:46>> Gotcha.

2:21:48>> I have a question.

2:21:49>> Yep.

2:21:51>> We voted this appropriation through and

2:21:53town meeting in 2023. Why are we just

2:21:56bidding it in 2026?

2:21:59>> Because if we did it three years ago, we

2:22:01might have been able to get all this

2:22:02done for a dollar back then.

2:22:04>> Yeah. Um I don't have a good reason why.

2:22:08um it took as long as it did to put the

2:22:10plans uh together and work through all

2:22:12the details and get it put out to bid.

2:22:16I

2:22:17>> I could add to that. Um we have a

2:22:20multitude of projects that only a very

2:22:22few people are managing because we don't

2:22:24have the capacity to manage

2:22:27as many as we have and borrowing takes

2:22:31some time. the funding wasn't available

2:22:33until after July 1 probably and the

2:22:37preparation of the bid documents is

2:22:39>> complicated. This is my concern

2:22:43with the coastal resiliency and all this

2:22:46stuff is like now we're just taking on

2:22:48we keep taking on more and more stuff

2:22:50and we have less and we don't have the

2:22:52people you know I just I don't

2:22:54understand what you know we have all we

2:22:57don't have the manpower or the expertise

2:23:00to do this stuff but we keep taking it

2:23:03on because we think we have to do it and

2:23:05some point we just have to say enough

2:23:07we're not going to do it we have enough

2:23:09projects Now, we're not taking on

2:23:11anymore till we get these done. Okay,

2:23:13I'm up.

2:23:14>> Um, you're preaching to the choir.

2:23:16Number one,

2:23:17>> number two,

2:23:18>> smiling, Bobby.

2:23:19>> Well, I do disagree with the expertise

2:23:21issue. We do we have many employees in

2:23:25positions who have specific expertise

2:23:28and and the skills and knowledge to get

2:23:31the job done, but it there's too many

2:23:33things.

2:23:35>> Well, I was thinking that maybe through

2:23:37Matt.

2:23:38>> Yes.

2:23:39that maybe that is something we actually

2:23:41look at that at the capital committee.

2:23:43We have that in our rankings who are

2:23:44saying can you can you get this done in

2:23:47a prescribed timeline? You know, we do

2:23:49ask that question and I think that would

2:23:51be good as a board for us to ask that

2:23:53question before we consider debt

2:23:55exclusions for the warrant.

2:23:58>> Okay. Yeah. Just not to make excuses,

2:24:00but I'm I'm glad Libby brought that up.

2:24:02So because the annual town meeting

2:24:06article didn't pass in the spring of 23,

2:24:08but it passed at the ballot, then it was

2:24:10subsequently passed at special town

2:24:12meeting. So that funding isn't available

2:24:13until middle of 24. And then from there,

2:24:16you have to get someone under contract,

2:24:17get them up to speed, get the design

2:24:19done. So it was like 18 months from the

2:24:20minute we could spend money to putting

2:24:22it out to pit. I'm not saying that's

2:24:24lightning speed, but it mid 24 is a

2:24:26little different than early 23.

2:24:28>> I know. And that's one of my pet peeves

2:24:30of all times is when we don't vote

2:24:32something through a town meeting in the

2:24:34spring, but it's on the ballot and then

2:24:36people go, "Oh, it doesn't matter

2:24:37because we're not we didn't vote it

2:24:38through a town meeting." They vote for

2:24:40it and then guess what? We're back at

2:24:41the next town meeting to approve it

2:24:43because now we've got approval to spend

2:24:45the money. It's it's it's the it's

2:24:47dragging the cart in front of the horse.

2:24:49It just

2:24:51>> All right, let's move this along.

2:24:53>> So, um I don't think we need a formal

2:24:55vote from the board tonight. I just

2:24:57wanted to bring forth this project. It

2:24:59was a little bit complex as far as the

2:25:00evaluation of the bids and and moving

2:25:02forward. Obviously, we know we need the

2:25:04field. So, um unless there's major

2:25:06objections,

2:25:08>> we are going to still try to work

2:25:10towards the add-ons. Yeah. The

2:25:13>> um and I and again, I think that there's

2:25:14avenues for us to do it cheaper and the

2:25:17infrastructure will already be there to

2:25:18support it. But I'll give you the quick

2:25:20example of like the sports lighting. um

2:25:22we're we're going to pay a premium

2:25:24through the middleman, which is the

2:25:26contractor, to hire a subcontractor.

2:25:28They don't make the lights and they're

2:25:29not putting the lights up. So, you know,

2:25:30we can potentially contract directly

2:25:33through Massachusetts Higher Education

2:25:35Consortium or Collaborative Cooperative

2:25:37Bid um to get pricing directly from the

2:25:40vendor, have them come out, put the

2:25:41lights up, and then actually, I almost

2:25:42guarantee it's going to be cheaper than

2:25:43$417,000.

2:25:45And the same thing with the scoreboards.

2:25:46And uh I mean, the dry sewer line, dry

2:25:48sewer line, very much a nice to have. It

2:25:50was just we already got it ripped up,

2:25:52but it we have a septic system that's

2:25:54only a couple years old. So, not

2:25:55critical.

2:25:56>> I think the lights are really important

2:25:57because we want to extend those hours of

2:25:59play on that field and we know that the

2:26:01schools probably they already do rely on

2:26:03those fields, but they're going to rely

2:26:04on those fields even more when they do

2:26:06their projects. So, I felt like the

2:26:07lights were really especially important

2:26:10to meet a uh prescribed timeline, so to

2:26:13speak.

2:26:13>> Absolutely.

2:26:15>> Anything else?

2:26:18Okay,

2:26:19>> I've done enough talking today. Thank

2:26:20you very much.

2:26:21>> Thank you very much.

2:26:25>> Okay, town manager report.

2:26:26>> Thank you very much, Drew. Okay, so this

2:26:29um has been carried over a couple times

2:26:31and I'll try to get through it um

2:26:32expeditiously.

2:26:35We have some administrative updates.

2:26:37We're starting initial prep on the 2027

2:26:40annual town meeting. As you know, we've

2:26:42adopted the timeline and we're doing

2:26:44some early warrant article planning. I

2:26:46think on dis um October 7th you're going

2:26:49to see the first outline of potential

2:26:51warrant articles for 2027 and we're

2:26:53going to have town council available in

2:26:56in earlyish October for citizen warrant

2:26:59article consultations.

2:27:01um beach businesses. We and perhaps you

2:27:04all got a number of uh complaints over

2:27:07the summer about beach businesses and

2:27:10these were some of them were sort of

2:27:12rogue, some were um licensed, but there

2:27:16were concern a lot of concerns about

2:27:18trash uh taking up public beach space

2:27:21for events very repeatedly. And in any

2:27:25event, um we have a um internal group

2:27:29that is reviewing our current rags for

2:27:32some potential amendments and we're

2:27:33going to be bringing that to you

2:27:34sometime this fall. Collective

2:27:37bargaining, we have um a few grievances

2:27:39that are pending. Contract negotiations

2:27:41are mostly completed. I think we have

2:27:43one outstanding union at this point. Um

2:27:45committee training, there's a little box

2:27:48over to the right there. We have some

2:27:50open meeting law training coming up for

2:27:52all of our boards, committees, and

2:27:53commissions. and hopefully everybody has

2:27:54signed up. Um the training is actually

2:27:57um very interesting and Lauren Goldberg

2:28:00of town council's office does a great

2:28:01job with it. Federal funding. We had a

2:28:04meeting recently with uh a local um

2:28:07seasonal resident who um has federal

2:28:10government connections and works um with

2:28:14funding authorities. And we met with him

2:28:17about some potential opportunities and

2:28:18he's putting some information together

2:28:20for us and checking on a few things.

2:28:23The budget for fiscal 28

2:28:26is underway. We've issued our budget

2:28:29guide and instructions. Our focus are

2:28:31those things listed there. Department

2:28:34meetings have begun to review budgets

2:28:37and um we are making our way through to

2:28:41ultimately present to you our budget

2:28:44recommendations in December. As we know,

2:28:46we have our most recent new department

2:28:49head hires, public health director and

2:28:51municipal finance director. And I note

2:28:52they are both um present. The select

2:28:55board strategic plan. We're in the

2:28:56process of preparing for your October

2:28:586th retreat for the strategic plan. And

2:29:01you're going to be getting an agenda

2:29:02ahead of time along with some other

2:29:04materials. Um it's not on there, but we

2:29:06did have uh Cape Cod Managers

2:29:09Association meets in a different Cape

2:29:10Town monthly and we usually have the

2:29:13meeting here in September. So, they came

2:29:15over on the 10th and we had a nice lunch

2:29:20um and very good meeting. Not not a lot

2:29:22of people made it over because some of

2:29:24them have their select board meetings on

2:29:26Thursday nights and um it's it's a day

2:29:29to come over. What's that? And it was

2:29:32kind of windy. It was windy. Yes, there

2:29:34was concern on in the morning. Um but

2:29:36they but the Hardy people made it over

2:29:38and we had they had a good time. Um

2:29:40public records request. I asked our

2:29:42public records officer to put together

2:29:44some information about public records

2:29:47requests and as you can see they um sort

2:29:50of spike here and there and we are we do

2:29:53have two full-time employees now that do

2:29:56little but process public records

2:29:58requests and they can be voluminous

2:30:01sometimes and they need to be paired

2:30:03back a bit so we can actually get the

2:30:05information. And um

2:30:10anyway, I thought this might be

2:30:11interesting for you because it it is a

2:30:13very significant amount of time.

2:30:16>> Yes.

2:30:19>> Yes.

2:30:19>> Is there a way to quantify that for how

2:30:21much that costs? Um maybe I mean we have

2:30:24two employees, but I know it involves a

2:30:26lot of other resources too.

2:30:28>> Um it does. Um, I'm not sure if we could

2:30:31quantify the other resources because

2:30:33because obviously many times departments

2:30:36have to get the information and get it

2:30:38to the public records officer officers.

2:30:41Um, I'm not sure if we could do that. We

2:30:44we might be able to figure out a bit of

2:30:45an estimate though. That that's a good

2:30:47point.

2:30:48>> It's changed dramatically.

2:30:49>> Yeah. This is very different than 25

2:30:52years ago. Mhm.

2:30:53>> I mean, I remember when Mayor man was,

2:30:55you know, was after the school and

2:30:57asking for everything constantly and

2:30:59that was the public

2:31:01>> request was mayor.

2:31:03>> But now it's now it's constant and I I

2:31:06think it really is it's the amount of

2:31:08work is credible.

2:31:09>> It it it really is it's it can be very

2:31:11detailed and very time consuming to to

2:31:14respond.

2:31:16Um, oh, and I will note that we do often

2:31:20ask people to please look at the website

2:31:22if there's something that they are

2:31:23looking for because we do have a massive

2:31:26amount of information on the town of

2:31:27Nuga website and um other towns have

2:31:30commented to us that we have much more

2:31:32than they do. So there there is a lot of

2:31:35information out there. Um, capital

2:31:37improvement plan reset. You all are we

2:31:39are well into this now. We began the

2:31:41reset process in July and continued

2:31:44through the summer. Last week we

2:31:45continued and we're going to continue

2:31:47again next week. The next steps are are

2:31:49listed there. We talked about that last

2:31:50week.

2:31:53Um some projects uh ongoing here

2:31:57just we're listing them here. Back to

2:31:58road erosion control measures obviously

2:32:01um is ongoing. Harbor master building um

2:32:04bids are I think out and due at the end

2:32:08of October. Um HCC approval is secured

2:32:11and we're starting to plan logistics for

2:32:13when construction is underway. The

2:32:15municipal restroom renovations um we

2:32:18have a couple of public restrooms that

2:32:20are going to be renovated. Um 22

2:32:23federal, that's the downtown public

2:32:25facility. That project will start right

2:32:28after stroll and continue through

2:32:29daffodil weekend. Scottet will start on

2:32:33or about October 15th and continue

2:32:35through daffodil weekend. And the uh

2:32:39employee facilities at Solid Waste are

2:32:42also um under construction now, I

2:32:44believe.

2:32:46And we've had some pre-construction and

2:32:47logistics meetings, and those are also

2:32:49ongoing. We're going to need to do a lot

2:32:51of outreach, especially for the downtown

2:32:53restrooms.

2:32:55Uh our island home, as you all know, we

2:32:58had a kickoff update meeting last week.

2:33:00We're going to do that monthly at the be

2:33:02first Wednesday of the month, I think,

2:33:04is what we landed on. And there is um a

2:33:07a very significant amount of activity

2:33:08going on with this project and it it

2:33:10brings in numerous uh town staff.

2:33:15Somerset sewer needs project. Um that

2:33:19project you have heard about. Uh we did

2:33:21the takings um a couple of weeks ago for

2:33:24easements in the private road areas. Um

2:33:26I do have some questions from a citizen.

2:33:29Um they there are a lot of questions and

2:33:32I'm working to get the answers to all of

2:33:33that and hopefully we will then post

2:33:36those on the town website as FAQs. Um

2:33:40there are FAQs on there now. But some of

2:33:42the questions include things like um can

2:33:45we vote no on the project at this point?

2:33:47And the the basic answer to that is um

2:33:51un I suppose somebody could put forward

2:33:55a citizen warrant article at the 2027

2:33:57annual town meeting. However, once a

2:33:58construction contract is signed, that

2:34:00that any vote on that would be void or

2:34:04not um re relevant valid.

2:34:07>> We couldn't pull out of the contract if

2:34:08the town meeting votes to stop.

2:34:10>> Um no, that is the advice I got from

2:34:12town council. Once the contract is

2:34:14signed, you're signed

2:34:16>> and we already signed the contract.

2:34:18>> No, we haven't signed it yet.

2:34:21>> When do we plan?

2:34:22>> We haven't

2:34:24>> When do we figure we're going to get to

2:34:25that? because I've had numerous people

2:34:27ask me the same thing.

2:34:28>> Well, I'll I'll have more of a full

2:34:30answer on all of this um shortly and

2:34:34I'll share all that with the board um at

2:34:36probably here at a meeting, but um the

2:34:39bid has not gone out yet. So, we there's

2:34:42no contract to sign just yet. The design

2:34:44is finishing up and then the bid will go

2:34:45out.

2:34:49>> No idea because

2:34:50>> well, it'll probably be early late

2:34:52winter, early spring, probably before

2:34:54town meeting. I've even heard rumblings

2:34:56about requesting a special town meeting.

2:35:00>> Well, um this project has been in the

2:35:03works for some time and it's not unusual

2:35:06that people um begin to realize its um

2:35:10approach after the fact.

2:35:15In any event, more information is um

2:35:17coming on the project, but it is moving

2:35:19ahead

2:35:20>> and and depending when it moves ahead

2:35:22and what is happening in the world,

2:35:24we'll have a decision to make when it's

2:35:27time to sign,

2:35:28>> right,

2:35:28>> as a board, we'll have a decision to

2:35:30make what Yeah. So,

2:35:31>> um it it is worth noting we have spent

2:35:34um several million dollars already on

2:35:36the project,

2:35:38>> including buying a piece of property for

2:35:40a sewer pump station. Um, okay. Other

2:35:43projects and improvements. The storm

2:35:45water master plan. This is well underway

2:35:47and there are a lot of moving parts to

2:35:49it, but we are looking for projects that

2:35:53need to be done. Staffing, um, storm

2:35:56water regulations are underway. And you

2:35:58will all all be updated on these things

2:36:00as they have things to report on. The

2:36:04Surfside area transportation

2:36:05improvements. Drew has reported several

2:36:07times about this project and it it is

2:36:09really under his leadership moving

2:36:11forward very well. The weight drive

2:36:13workforce housing project has started

2:36:15and is also moving along nicely. Uh the

2:36:20other things I was going to mention Drew

2:36:22already covered the Novadier fields

2:36:23project, DPW facility, fall and spring

2:36:26road work and office planning. I think I

2:36:29mentioned this recently maybe last week

2:36:32when you were talking about capital. Um

2:36:34Rick, Greg and I, the deputy town

2:36:36managers and I and our project manager

2:36:38Kevin Emanuel had a little off-site

2:36:40retreat a couple weeks ago to focus

2:36:43solely on office space and all the

2:36:45moving parts with that. So for example,

2:36:48um when the D actually I jotted down, we

2:36:52need to revisit DPW, but when

2:36:54departments might be moving out of a

2:36:55facility to go to a new one, what is

2:36:58going to happen with the old one? Can it

2:36:59be repurposed for something else? We

2:37:01we're talking about that with our island

2:37:02home. We we do have somewhat of an

2:37:05unfortunate habit sometimes of moving

2:37:08departments into second and thirdand

2:37:10buildings that are not really properly

2:37:13renovated for whatever they are moving

2:37:15into. Two fairgrounds road is a very

2:37:17good example of that. That was never

2:37:19intended to house as many employees as

2:37:21it now houses and that I it's it's just

2:37:26not a sufficient building for what is

2:37:28going on in there. So, we were talking

2:37:30about ways that we could also follow up

2:37:33on the board's discussion at last year's

2:37:36strategic planning retreat as to rather

2:37:38than a

2:37:40large municipal office building that

2:37:43could house almost everybody, we may

2:37:46have to break that up into either

2:37:48smaller buildings at the two fairground

2:37:50site or elsewhere in the nearest area

2:37:53for the foreseeable future because that

2:37:55type of expense is

2:37:58big and we have a lot of big projects on

2:38:00the horizon. So, we're very mindful of

2:38:02that, but we also need to have decent uh

2:38:05workspace for employees and proper

2:38:07spaces for the public to come and get

2:38:10served. So, we are going to review a

2:38:13highle summary of this with you at your

2:38:15retreat and probably ask that we have a

2:38:20subsequent actual workshop to really dig

2:38:22into it. So, we've been spending some

2:38:25some time on that and that's it. Happy

2:38:27to answer any questions.

2:38:29>> Are there any questions?

2:38:31>> Two. Um, the less the 115 projects that

2:38:35are less than three million, are we

2:38:38reviewing those or those just go to

2:38:39Capcom?

2:38:40>> No, you're you're we need you to review

2:38:42them so that so that we can reset the

2:38:44entire plan.

2:38:46>> Okay.

2:38:46>> And you're going to start doing that

2:38:47next week.

2:38:48>> Okay.

2:38:51>> Yes. I think Rick did send out to you uh

2:38:54the list and I think the idea was if you

2:38:56can go through it as best you can and

2:38:58identify the projects you want to talk

2:39:00about.

2:39:02>> He he sent an email about this.

2:39:04>> When you say talk about eliminate

2:39:07>> well you want to bring what do you feel

2:39:09strongly about one way or the other?

2:39:11>> All right. Um

2:39:12>> Capcom does not want to look at 116

2:39:14projects for this year but we

2:39:15>> I don't think they're all for this year.

2:39:17>> No, they're not. They're over 10 years.

2:39:18just letting you know I don't want to

2:39:20view 10 of them to be honest.

2:39:22>> Um

2:39:24oh the I know the question uh a couple

2:39:26people have asked me and I don't and I

2:39:28don't know the timeline. Maybe you don't

2:39:29know the timeline but they wanted to

2:39:31know when town when was the the warrant

2:39:34going to be open for citizen articles

2:39:36and when could people meet with town

2:39:37council? Do we know those dates yet?

2:39:39>> Yes. Um we will start. Um

2:39:49>> there's a small 15minute window bunch.

2:39:52[laughter]

2:39:53>> So the warrant is essentially open now.

2:39:56The due date for warrant articles is um

2:40:03November 6, Monday, November 16th at 4

2:40:06p.m. And the town council review times

2:40:09are Wednesday, October 14th from 10 to

2:40:12noon and Thursday, October 15th from 4

2:40:15to 6. And you sign up um they're online

2:40:19and you sign up through our office. And

2:40:22this will be an announcement at starting

2:40:23with next week's meeting.

2:40:26Okay,

2:40:28let me thank you very much.

2:40:30Okay, we are on to traffic safety

2:40:32recommendations.

2:40:36Is this going to be Mike Burns?

2:40:39>> Yeah, you you've got Mike Burns to

2:40:40review. Um, but I did want to know I I

2:40:43know that at least one of you wanted to

2:40:45hold this over.

2:40:46>> I It was me. I I wanted to

2:40:48>> to take go see it, but I did put photos

2:40:51that I took last Thursday in your

2:40:52package.

2:40:53>> Yeah, I drove by. If you could bring up

2:40:54the one photo, Erica,

2:40:58that photo that

2:41:02it

2:41:06>> Yeah. And the hydrant is down here,

2:41:09right?

2:41:10>> It's to the right.

2:41:11>> Oh, the hydrant.

2:41:12>> The hydrant is here.

2:41:14>> Okay.

2:41:15>> If if I can help, I'm online as well.

2:41:20>> So, where would the hydra move to, I

2:41:21guess, is the question. to gain a

2:41:23parking space back.

2:41:25>> Mike,

2:41:26>> Mr. Chair, uh I hope you can hear me.

2:41:28Okay. If you slide the the hydrant

2:41:30closer to the utility pool, kind of

2:41:32where the the regulatory parking sign

2:41:34is,

2:41:35we don't know what's underneath the

2:41:37bricks as far as infrastructure and

2:41:38water. There might be a water meter

2:41:40there. It might not be possible. That's

2:41:42just something we noticed at traffic

2:41:43safety that if that hydrant slid over to

2:41:46that utility pool right where Erica's uh

2:41:48cursor is, you could get it would

2:41:51basically be a swap of of spaces. You

2:41:53would you would remove this space, but

2:41:54you would gain it back to where the

2:41:55hydrant is. So, it really wouldn't be

2:41:57much of a net loss of on street parking.

2:42:03And I know that last week Don had also

2:42:06asked if the hydrant could move across

2:42:08the street, but there's no space. I took

2:42:12the street view photo as well, just to

2:42:15show you that it would it would be in

2:42:18somebody's private.

2:42:20>> And and what time of day was that photo?

2:42:22That's typically cars parked on every

2:42:24one of those photos.

2:42:25>> Be like five o'clock.

2:42:26>> It's amazing. That street was pretty

2:42:28empty when I went down it, too. But it's

2:42:30just I just have a hard time just

2:42:36I mean, if we could move

2:42:38>> Brook and Don also have their

2:42:40>> first first Bobby and then we'll go to

2:42:41>> No, I just I just you know the fact that

2:42:44they built it without asking and you

2:42:46know now they're you know the old build

2:42:48it and ask for forgiven is just really

2:42:51I mean

2:42:54>> Brook's got her hands right. Brooke

2:42:58>> I'm having some issues with my Can you

2:43:00hear me? I'm having issues with my um

2:43:02AirPods. Um, can the hydrant go the

2:43:05other direction to the right, which is

2:43:07already yellow lined?

2:43:11>> Sorry, the hydrant go to the right.

2:43:14>> Yeah.

2:43:17>> Well, I think the idea was

2:43:20this yellow line right here is here

2:43:22because of the hydrant. So you would

2:43:25lose the parking spaces in front of the

2:43:28constructed driveway and then you would

2:43:31continue to lose parking here. So if it

2:43:33shifted to the left by the pole, then

2:43:36you'd at least get this area for

2:43:38parking.

2:43:40>> Yeah. I I just I couldn't tell from the

2:43:41photo and I didn't think about this

2:43:43until tonight whether it's yellow like

2:43:46much farther down because it's too

2:43:47narrow for a parking spot. But if not,

2:43:50never mind. Um, I I'd like to ask the

2:43:53applicant if I might. Um,

2:43:56uh, is there is there an appetite to

2:43:58move the hydrant at all? The applicant's

2:44:01representative.

2:44:03>> All right.

2:44:04>> Should I speak to that through you, Mr.

2:44:06Chair?

2:44:06>> Yes, you may, please. Thank you.

2:44:08>> Okay, great. Um, thanks, Brooke. Um, so

2:44:11a couple things. We try to do all of the

2:44:14due diligence as I put in my email last

2:44:16Friday to all of you. uh talking to the

2:44:19water company, talking to the fire

2:44:20department, talking to everybody, and we

2:44:23felt comfortable applying for approval

2:44:26for this location. Specifically, we did

2:44:28research trying to do the driveway off

2:44:31of um this driveway right here, which is

2:44:34a paved driveway at 15 uh Westchester,

2:44:38who is also a client. Um, and it just

2:44:42really with the topography of the hill

2:44:44and the way that these two properties at

2:44:4715 and 17 sit, it didn't work as well.

2:44:50So, we applied for this specific design.

2:44:53As far as your question about moving the

2:44:56um hydrant during this process, one of

2:45:00the reasons that we were already

2:45:01excavated was actually because we had um

2:45:05sub uh I don't even know what the word

2:45:09is like the sewer lines, the water

2:45:12lines, the electric lines, they all had

2:45:14to be replaced. They were all from 1932

2:45:18probably. And so we had to run the water

2:45:21all the way up. if you can see my

2:45:22cursor. I don't know if you can. Um, and

2:45:26the sewer and the electrical and redo

2:45:30all of those lines this winter in front

2:45:33of this house. Um, and replace them and

2:45:35put them lower and put them uh to code

2:45:38where they belonged as far as the um

2:45:42freeze point for the ground and

2:45:43everything else. So, I can confirm that

2:45:45there's no utilities right behind the

2:45:50telephone pole, but I did check with

2:45:53National Grid before engaging in this

2:45:56project. Um, and uh, National Grid did

2:45:59not have a problem with our location of

2:46:02this. I don't know what their lines

2:46:05specifically are as far as the telephone

2:46:07poll is concerned, but I know that all

2:46:09of our lines are in the middle of this

2:46:11area. And I want to be clear that

2:46:14there's no outdoor space here. We did um

2:46:17look into to see if there was a

2:46:19dimension up to the right of the former

2:46:22parking when it was all one cohesive

2:46:25property with 11 Westchester and there's

2:46:28not enough room to do a properly uh

2:46:31required sized parking spot there. Um so

2:46:35again, this is why we made these

2:46:37decisions. And um

2:46:41uh what else did I want to say? So I'd

2:46:43have to revisit

2:46:45double check with National Grid as far

2:46:49as moving the hydrant, but as I said in

2:46:51my email, I'm more than happy to have

2:46:53that conversation with my client. Um we

2:46:56just felt like we had done a lot of

2:46:58research prior and had accommodated the

2:47:01water company, the fire department, and

2:47:04everybody else in order to avoid having

2:47:06to do that. But I understand your guys

2:47:08position.

2:47:09>> Great. Great. Thank you.

2:47:13>> Don, does Don have a hand up?

2:47:15>> Yeah. Um Tori, why can't you bring a

2:47:17driveway off of Kite Hill

2:47:20>> on the back?

2:47:21>> Back here. Can you guys see my cursor?

2:47:23I'm not sure.

2:47:23>> No, we can't.

2:47:24>> Okay. Um back to the right of the

2:47:26cottage.

2:47:27>> Yeah, behind it.

2:47:30>> So, do you see kind of the property

2:47:33lines in faint black? Maybe Mike could

2:47:35answer this better than I could. I

2:47:38believe this piece on Kite Hill is not

2:47:41our property.

2:47:42>> A little strange.

2:47:43>> It belongs to the road possibly. And

2:47:46this subdivision of this lot, created,

2:47:50as you can see, not enough space to come

2:47:53off that road, which is the original

2:47:56driveway for both dwellings before they

2:47:59were subdivided. At 11 and 13, there's a

2:48:02driveway off of CL I believe it's Cliff

2:48:05Road. Correct, Mike? As it comes down

2:48:07the hill,

2:48:10>> it would it would have been Kite It's

2:48:12Kite Hill, right?

2:48:13>> Is it Kite Hill all the way down that

2:48:14hill?

2:48:15>> Cliff and then you took a left on Kite

2:48:17and you they were parking behind the

2:48:18houses up above.

2:48:20>> You took a right off of what I thought

2:48:22was Cliff Road. It might be Kite Hill.

2:48:24I'm not sure. It's whatever the name of

2:48:26the road is when Cliff Road going

2:48:28towards Madakut changes in direction and

2:48:31comes down the other side of the

2:48:33triangle. Is that Kite Hill or is that

2:48:36still Cliff Road?

2:48:37>> It's Center Street.

2:48:38>> Center Street, but Kite Hill is

2:48:39>> Oh, Center Street. Okay. So, there's a

2:48:41driveway behind 11 here um halfway down

2:48:46that hill that used to access both of

2:48:49these properties.

2:48:53Yeah, I'm still I'm still not really

2:48:55understanding because it looks like 13

2:48:58has frontage on Kite Hill Lane.

2:49:01>> I believe those is bigger than the

2:49:04actual drawn road. I mean, that's what

2:49:06it looks like from this plan.

2:49:08>> Yeah, it

2:49:10a parking space back there. The property

2:49:12line definitely does not go up to that

2:49:15uh higher black line and that long

2:49:18linear horizontal rectangular piece.

2:49:24>> Is it not the road layout?

2:49:28>> Mike might be able to answer that better

2:49:29than I.

2:49:30>> Yeah, that's that's the uh you see the

2:49:32property line there uh Dawn. So that's

2:49:34the layout line that the edge that line

2:49:36you're seeing there is just the edge of

2:49:37pavement for for

2:49:39>> So why can't they go cross that with a

2:49:42driveway to put a parking space in the

2:49:44back that then wouldn't interrupt any of

2:49:46the parking on Westchester Street?

2:49:50>> Matt,

2:49:51>> yes.

2:49:53>> Uh there is a really steep elevation

2:49:55change back there. I drove down Kite

2:49:57Hill to check that out, Don. And it um

2:50:02it appears as though there are pavers in

2:50:06that section. So So there's the there's

2:50:09the what you can see is the road, right?

2:50:12And then there's a strip in between and

2:50:16then what appears to be the property

2:50:17line for 13. Um, if you look at the GIS

2:50:21map, it looks as though the entire Kite

2:50:24Hill belongs to the property at the end.

2:50:28It's it's delineated. Is it an easement

2:50:31to the other properties back there or is

2:50:33it an actual road? Because um

2:50:39>> it's a private road. Yeah, it's unclear

2:50:41to me that um but but it's already been

2:50:44there's pavers back there and there's

2:50:46parking spots and then there's a quite a

2:50:49steep elevation change down to the

2:50:51property at 13.

2:50:53So I don't know that that's viable.

2:51:01>> Bobby, I have a question for the chief.

2:51:04Chief, if that hydrant were put next to

2:51:06that pole, would it still work for you

2:51:08guys?

2:51:13I will note that the original traffic

2:51:15safety recommendation was approval

2:51:18pursuant to the hydrant being moved.

2:51:20>> Okay,

2:51:23>> Chief,

2:51:24>> how you doing? Uh Mike Cranson, fire

2:51:26chief. That that would work fine as long

2:51:29as we could still swing a wrench and

2:51:30open the hydrant. It wasn't too close to

2:51:32the pole, but we certainly could be part

2:51:34of that uh moving with the water

2:51:36company.

2:51:37>> Okay. Thank you.

2:51:40Mr. Chairman, would you like a motion?

2:51:42>> Sure. I'll make a motion to approve

2:51:46the parking space provided that the

2:51:48hydrant can be moved and the space can

2:51:51be where the hydrant is now can be

2:51:53opened up for parking.

2:51:56Do we have a second?

2:52:01>> Yes. Okay, I'll second it.

2:52:03>> All right, Joe has seconded.

2:52:06Okay, are we ready for a vote? Does

2:52:07anyone want to talk about it?

2:52:09>> May May I ask a question just before we

2:52:11vote?

2:52:13>> Yes, you may.

2:52:14>> Could the fire chief um explain what

2:52:16that process might look like as far as

2:52:18what my next steps might be with who I

2:52:20need to

2:52:21>> through the water company, Tori?

2:52:23>> Okay.

2:52:24>> Yeah. If it can't be moved, then no.

2:52:27That's my that's my motion. Only then

2:52:30come back here.

2:52:31>> Second.

2:52:31>> Yeah. Okay.

2:52:32>> Yeah. So, just to clarify, there would

2:52:34be no net loss of parking. Correct.

2:52:37>> Under this plan,

2:52:38>> gain a spot. All it would do is the

2:52:41yellow line and the hydrant would move

2:52:43down to where the park driveway is. And

2:52:45basically the hydrant would go right

2:52:47where the fire where that water man is

2:52:49right there. Yeah. And the sign would

2:52:51come out and then the line where the

2:52:53hydrant is now would be removed and

2:52:55would be moved down to where the

2:52:57driveway is.

2:52:58>> Understood.

2:52:59>> All right. So, we have a motion and a

2:53:01second. Uh, Brooke,

2:53:04>> hi.

2:53:05>> Don,

2:53:06>> hi,

2:53:07>> Bobby.

2:53:08>> Hi,

2:53:08>> Jill.

2:53:09>> Hi,

2:53:10>> and I'm gonna vote uh

2:53:13I'm going to vote no. So, it's four to

2:53:15one.

2:53:16>> Okay, very good. Thank you so much for

2:53:18your time, everybody. And just for a

2:53:20point of clarification,

2:53:21>> wait, hold on.

2:53:23>> Sorry. What was that?

2:53:24>> Just for a point of clarification. If we

2:53:27talk to the water company and for some

2:53:29reason the feasibility of moving the

2:53:31fire hydrant is not possible, we would

2:53:34come back to you for comment.

2:53:36>> Bobby Bobby,

2:53:37>> you would get you wouldn't get a yellow

2:53:38line. That's it. Either the hydrant gets

2:53:41moved or you don't get a yellow line.

2:53:42>> You don't get a curb cut.

2:53:44>> You don't get a curb cut. Yeah.

2:53:46>> I just wanted to understand. Thank you.

2:53:48And and I and I'm voting no just out of

2:53:52it's out of principle and we we've

2:53:55turned all the yards downtown which used

2:53:56to be gardens into parking lots and

2:53:59we're not gaining any on street parking

2:54:02and we're covering and we're parking on

2:54:04top of all the sidewalks. So I, you

2:54:06know, I'm just voting because we need to

2:54:09get a handle on it and stop, you know,

2:54:12stop doing this for, you know, letting

2:54:14the larger and larger cars and

2:54:16everything take over our downtown.

2:54:18>> And I'm going on notice to state that if

2:54:20uh you come in and you've already done

2:54:21the work without asking permission, I'm

2:54:23going to start voting no on all of

2:54:24these.

2:54:26>> I just want to be clear, it was outdoor

2:54:27space that we were approved for.

2:54:31>> What was that? Excuse me. What was that

2:54:32again?

2:54:33>> I just wanted to be clear. It was

2:54:35outdoor space we were approved for.

2:54:37>> Okay. But that approved through HDC, not

2:54:39approved. No, no, no. I I understand.

2:54:42That's why we didn't touch the curb cut.

2:54:44Yeah, but it looks ridiculous.

2:54:46>> Well,

2:54:47>> it's not a patio.

2:54:50>> Don't substitute your your your

2:54:52[laughter] view for the HTC, Don.

2:54:54>> It looks like a driveway. It doesn't

2:54:56look like a patio.

2:54:58>> I understand it. We just we were very

2:55:00clear on what was approved and what

2:55:02wasn't.

2:55:03No. All right. I We're We've We've made

2:55:05a vote. We're done. All right. Unless is

2:55:07Jill, you have a comment.

2:55:08>> I just want I really like the idea of

2:55:10moving the hydrants across the street to

2:55:11areas that don't on sides of the street

2:55:13where there's no parking. I thought that

2:55:14was great and I hope that we see more of

2:55:16that in the future.

2:55:17>> Yeah. Okay. Great. All right. Well,

2:55:20thank you very much.

2:55:23All right. We are at uh oh we've got

2:55:26discussion and vote to officially

2:55:28disband the Africa meeting house

2:55:30investigation procurement workg group

2:55:35who is leading us through this

2:55:40is this you Brooke

2:55:45>> John do you want to take it

2:55:46>> I mean I can if you want me to go for it

2:55:49>> this was just basically a formality

2:55:51because there's been there have been

2:55:52ongoing ing questions um that the work

2:55:57of the work group has ceased. They made

2:56:01a recommendation, the investigator was

2:56:03hired, the report was presented, it was

2:56:05accepted by the board, and now um it's

2:56:09time to just clarify that the work group

2:56:12is no longer

2:56:15unnecessary.

2:56:18>> Okay. Thank you, Don.

2:56:22>> Lefford.

2:56:23>> Yes.

2:56:25I was hoping that we'd uh mentioned it

2:56:27in the past that we could finally meet

2:56:29one last time and bring the investigator

2:56:31or investigators down here and uh speak

2:56:34with them like was agreed upon in the

2:56:35RFP. Uh I don't know why that's a big

2:56:38deal. And that's my request before we

2:56:41disband the group. Thank you.

2:56:47I'd like to make a motion that we

2:56:49formally end uh disband the uh African

2:56:52Meeting House procurement workg group as

2:56:55their work has been completed.

2:56:57>> Do I have a second?

2:57:02>> Second.

2:57:03>> All right, John's seconded. Okay,

2:57:07we'll go to a vote. Brooke

2:57:10>> I.

2:57:11>> Don

2:57:13>> I. Bobby,

2:57:14>> I'm not gonna vote on this because I

2:57:16wasn't on this board. I don't even

2:57:17understand what half of this is. So, I'm

2:57:19gonna abstain.

2:57:20>> Okay. Jill

2:57:22>> I.

2:57:23>> And I'll vote I as well.

2:57:26So, for an abstension.

2:57:31All right. Committee reports.

2:57:36Brooke, Don, anything?

2:57:38>> No.

2:57:39>> Okay. Uh, I guess I can only say we had

2:57:42our board of health meeting and elected

2:57:45officers.

2:57:46>> Okay.

2:57:47>> And we had a record meeting of one hour

2:57:50which everyone was very happy about.

2:57:52>> Tell us who the officers are.

2:57:54>> Oh, I'm the chair. God. Oh, there you

2:57:56go. There you go. Bragging.

2:57:59[laughter]

2:58:00>> No, the uh coaster resiliency met and

2:58:03there were a couple applications. One

2:58:05was the lighthouse museum and one was a

2:58:08uh one of the cottages down on the

2:58:09wararf. And one of what's interesting is

2:58:13that the

2:58:15engineers and the builders are uh

2:58:20you know because the state is requiring

2:58:21it and also because they're looking at

2:58:23it. They're looking at the different sea

2:58:25level rises and they are putting the

2:58:27information onto their uh onto their

2:58:31plans and they are uh looking at raising

2:58:35the house. The one on uh northwarf was

2:58:38raising it between the medium and the

2:58:40high with the ability to raise it in the

2:58:42future on its own. So they're already be

2:58:44I think because of the conversation and

2:58:47because of the attention it's getting

2:58:49people are you know as it as they're

2:58:52renovating they are actually making some

2:58:54of the changes they need to make and I

2:58:56think that is a positive result of it.

2:58:58So they're going to have moved they're

2:59:00going to have renovated one of these

2:59:01cottages it and then they'll be able to

2:59:04lift it again if they have to in the

2:59:05future. So because we've kind of the

2:59:08state is making some of this known and

2:59:10we're making some of it known. It's

2:59:12actually starting to happen which is I

2:59:14think a positive.

2:59:16>> Can I ask you about that? So how did

2:59:17they determine what number they came to?

2:59:21>> Uh they have the builder has they have

2:59:23to follow what the state says and the

2:59:25state isn't using the actually highest

2:59:27but they are they're using

2:59:29>> the state's not using the highest. No,

2:59:30they were I don't came I'm gonna get the

2:59:32numbers wrong if I I if I said it, but

2:59:35it was sort of between medium and high

2:59:38and they're they're working somewhere

2:59:39between medium and high is what they

2:59:41what they're picking and it and it will

2:59:44be consistent with some of the other

2:59:46houses that have been moved already. So,

2:59:48that's what they're sort of they're sort

2:59:50of basing it on. Some that have already

2:59:52raised. You don't want to have a bunch

2:59:54that are on stilts and everything else

2:59:56is down here. They've got to go up, but

2:59:58how high up? And so it's there's

3:00:01the process is slowly working. So

3:00:03>> but if you dig into it far enough,

3:00:05you'll find that the insurance company

3:00:07has a number and that's what they're all

3:00:08building to.

3:00:09>> Yep. That's that is true. Follow the

3:00:13money. Okay. All right. So we are not

3:00:17adjourning because we're going to

3:00:18executive session.

3:00:19>> You are adjourning to executive session

3:00:22not to return to open session for the

3:00:24purposes outlined on your agenda. So

3:00:26move.

3:00:27>> Second.

3:00:29All right, I made it. Yep. Brook second

3:00:32it. All right, Don.

3:00:34>> Hi,

3:00:36>> Jill.

3:00:37>> I

3:00:37>> and I vote I

3:00:38>> I

3:00:39>> I

3:00:41>> And I will um lock back in. Okay.