2026-09-30 - Planning Commission

00:13Hey everyone, uh welcome to the town

00:16plan public hearing uh September 30th,

00:182026. Uh Dana Allen, I'm the planning

00:21commission chair. Um going to give a

00:23brief presentation

00:25on town plan and then tonight's hearing.

00:29Um, we are recording this. Orca is

00:31recording it. We're recording the online

00:33version. There are folks online, folks

00:35in the room. So, we'll go over how

00:36that's going to work. But real quick, I

00:38wanted to introduce um the other

00:40commissioners. So, Billy, if you want

00:42to,

00:43>> Billy Vdor. Hi everybody. Thanks for

00:46coming.

00:46>> Monica Ken,

00:48>> Robbie Adler.

00:49>> Hi everyone. I'm Katie Gallagher.

00:52>> Neil Lightner, Town Pler.

00:54>> Um, thanks guys. Uh we we put in for

00:57name tags, but Select hasn't approved

00:59them yet, so it's waiting with our

01:03so we'll get them someday. Um but

01:05anyway, yeah, thanks for coming. We

01:07appreciate it. Um folks, if you drift

01:09in, if you wouldn't mind signing in,

01:10Teresa, thanks.

01:14Sorry. Uh I'm going to I'm going to be

01:15the Cheryl Casey of tonight's meeting.

01:17Um so anyway, yeah, if we could go to

01:19the next slide, Neil.

01:24Um, so what to expect tonight? We're

01:27here to hear your feedback on the town

01:30plan as currently drafted. It's a draft

01:32plan. It's still under revision. Your

01:34feedback is integral to that process.

01:36Um, so we're looking for specific things

01:39that you want to change um or things

01:41that you do like or support. It's good

01:43to hear those things. Um, specific

01:46changes are welcome. Um, you know, the

01:49aspirations, goals, and strategies are

01:50really the heart of this town plan. And

01:52so there's something that you see

01:54missing, there's something that you

01:55think needs to be shored up, etc., etc.

01:58That's the sort of thing that we want to

01:59hear about. Um, you can ask technical

02:01questions about the process, the draft.

02:04Um, we'll provide information as best we

02:06can about how particular policies and

02:07recommendations are developed within

02:09this. Um, so we're going to do that. Um,

02:13and then we're here to listen. So the

02:15focus is on hearing from as many

02:16community members as possible. Um, we're

02:20taking in a lot of information. So,

02:21that's really the goal for tonight. Next

02:23slide.

02:26Um, so what is a town plan? Uh, this is

02:29our shared framework for making

02:30decisions about the future. Um, it is

02:33required by state law. So, we do have to

02:35do these every 8 years. Um, it's been a

02:37while since we've done a comprehensive

02:39update like this. I think the last time

02:41was technically 2013. Um, and it was

02:44administratively continued until now.

02:46So, we're doing we did a real big

02:47overhaul. we change a lot of stuff. Um,

02:49so it's it's a big change. Um, it gives

02:52us uh the select board, town committees,

02:55that sort of thing. Gives us goals to

02:57work toward. Gives us an overarching

02:58framework under which to make decisions.

03:01So that's why it's important. Um, this

03:04is not a zoning bylaw. And I want to

03:07repeat that this does guide a lot of

03:09that process, but these are not in and

03:11of themselves zoning bylaws. That's a

03:13separate process. So, think about this

03:16as like here's a big framework, here's a

03:19lot of ideas, here's a lot of

03:20directions. Think of zoning bylaws as

03:23the nuts and bolts of how we actually

03:25regulate development on a particular

03:28area or parcel. So, next slide.

03:35Um, the objectives for this were a more

03:37accessible plan. We, as you many of you

03:41saw, um, we did a story map. So, it's an

03:43online website. We broke it up into

03:45chapters. It's a little bit more

03:47graphic. There's a lot less text than

03:48there was in the o old one. Um, so we

03:52wanted to make it more accessible in

03:53that way. Um, we also wanted to make it

03:55a little more actionable. Um, and so we

03:57spent a lot of time pairing down the

03:59aspirations, goals, and strategies to

04:01what we saw as fairly essential. We also

04:04did something that I don't think we've

04:05done before in a town plan, which is

04:07sort of recommending who would shepherd

04:09some of these aspirations, goals, and

04:11strategies forward. So, we're trying to

04:13assign a little bit of responsibility

04:15here and there um saying we recommend

04:17that such and such take this on. So,

04:19trying to make this not just a planning

04:21document that sits on a shelf, but

04:23something that someone can sink their

04:24teeth into and work with. Um and then we

04:28want this to be driven by the community.

04:29We did two years of input. This is the

04:32culmination of essentially two years of

04:33input. Um we'll talk a little bit more

04:35about that, but that was really the

04:37ultimate goal. So, next slide.

04:40Um so how did the community shape the

04:44plan? So we kicked this off in 2024. We

04:46did a lot of outreach to specific

04:48committees, partners, groups, things

04:49like that. Um we did a community survey

04:52in the fall of 2024. I think it was open

04:54for almost 3 months. Um and we got a lot

04:57of responses out of that. We then

04:59followed that up with four visioning

05:01sessions. So we sent out a lot of

05:02publications. We invited people via

05:05email to those sessions like committees,

05:07stakeholders, the general public. We

05:10asked a lot of specific questions during

05:11those sessions about what you want to

05:13see, what you value, what you want to

05:14preserve, protect, etc. Um, we've then

05:18had specific meetings on chapters and

05:23the aspirations, goals, and strategies.

05:25You're going to hear me say aspirations,

05:26goals, and strategies a lot. That's

05:27really the heart of this plan. when

05:28you're looking through it, that's kind

05:30of like the filtered down vision. So, we

05:34had six separate chapter meetings on

05:36that covering two chapters each

05:38basically where we really drafted the

05:40nuts and bolts of those aspirations,

05:42goals, and strategies over time. We then

05:44spent a lot of time drafting the plan.

05:46Um, we were meeting a couple times a

05:47month. Um, those meetings were largely

05:50dedicated to drafting. So, we were

05:52literally writing this plan in this room

05:55with the help with Neil's help. Um and

05:58then others were you know coming in and

06:00helping us on specific things. So that

06:02was part of that whole public process.

06:04We published the draft in a on August

06:064th uh of this year. Brings us to now.

06:09So the plan has been out there in draft

06:11form for about 8 weeks. This is our

06:13public hearing that we're holding to get

06:15your input on this. After this public

06:17hearing goes through revisions. So we'll

06:19take the input. We do some rewrites. We

06:21do some incorporation. Um and then we

06:24kick that second draft essentially to

06:26select board for two hearings that

06:29select board will hold. Um dates are TBD

06:32on this. We're not sure the volume of

06:34input we're going to get. So we're going

06:36to work through it. That's going to take

06:38us some time and then it's up to select

06:40board for their process. Um I believe

06:43they have like 180 days from the time we

06:45submit them a draft to hold their

06:47hearings and those will be publicly

06:48notified. So next slide.

06:53So these are the top five challenges

06:54that we heard. So these were kind of our

06:57north stars. Uh if you can have more

06:59than one north star. Um property taxes,

07:02we heard that a lot. Um I think we're

07:04all aware of that. Uh affordable and

07:06adequate housing, I think that's been a

07:08hot topic for a long time. Climate

07:10change and storm and flood resiliency,

07:12that was another big one from the

07:14survey, from the visioning sessions,

07:15from a lot of the input we received.

07:17growth and development. That's a broad

07:19umbrella, but that's definitely been

07:21bubbling up. How do we be flood

07:24resilient while also having some level

07:25of growth and development within our

07:27community? Um, and then the school

07:29system and just, you know, a note about

07:32the school system. We're very concerned

07:33about that too. That's an integral part

07:35of our community. That is a technically

07:36separate entity from the town and

07:38planning commission and that sort of

07:39thing. But it's the sort of thing that

07:41like as a planning commission, as a

07:42town, we pay attention to. They just

07:45have their own administrative district.

07:46So a lot of the decisions are made at

07:48that level. So just framing the

07:50conversation there. Um next slide.

07:53[snorts] Okay. So plan chapters

07:55introduction, what is this about?

07:58Planning context, what is the history on

08:00this? What's the overarching framework?

08:02We're looking at what we heard. We tried

08:04to tease out the key themes. Um we put

08:07together a lot of different maps showing

08:09some of these data points and themes.

08:12Um, and then the where we're going is

08:14really like we took all of that and we

08:16turned it into these aspirations, goals,

08:17and strategies. Again, that's really the

08:20the meat and potatoes of this whole

08:21thing is what do we do about this,

08:24right? And that's what we think we can

08:26do about this stuff, right? We added the

08:29tracking progress and stay engaged.

08:31That's kind of new for this plan.

08:32Basically saying like, hey, this is the

08:34these are the things we want to do and

08:36this is who we think do them and this is

08:38how we might measure progress. So, it's

08:41fairly broad. It is a recommendation.

08:44We're not assigning someone saying thou

08:46shalt do this, but we did name names.

08:49So, if you're one of the named entities,

08:52we would appreciate the help and support

08:54on some of this stuff. That would be

08:55great. Um, next slide.

09:00Okay. So, that brings us to um the

09:03hearing now. A couple rules of the road

09:06essentially. Um, please when you speak,

09:07come to the table. That helps or get it.

09:09that helps the owl get it. Helps us see

09:11you a little easier. Um, state your

09:14name. Um, optionally where you live.

09:16We're hoping it's mostly Waterberry. Um,

09:19we are in person and on Zoom, so we're

09:21going to try to alternate between the

09:23two. So, we'll try to take, you know,

09:25questions from the room. Questions from

09:27Zoom, try to alternate there. Neil's

09:29going to be monitoring the Zoom. If you

09:31are on Zoom, uh, raise your virtual hand

09:35to be recognized. We'll do our best to

09:38get you in the order in which you raise

09:39your hand. Um, if we mess up, please

09:43have leniency for us. Um, we're doing

09:46the best we can to run two kind of

09:47separate meetings. Um, and then another

09:50thing is that we do ask that you kind of

09:52keep your initial comments to 3 minutes.

09:55Um, so being targeted is really good.

09:57Um, we're not cutting you off at 3

09:59minutes. You only get three minutes

10:00throughout the entire course of the

10:02evening. We do want everyone to have a

10:04chance to speak. So, we're asking that

10:05the first time you come up and talk,

10:07it's 3 minutes. If you've got more,

10:09please come back around. But we do try

10:11to give everyone a chance to talk, at

10:13least initially, before we start calling

10:15on people a second time or a third time.

10:17So, just wanted to throw that out there.

10:20And Neil is going to be on top of

10:22timing, so we'll do our best. Neil, if

10:25you can give people a heads up when

10:26their time is, you know, a minute left

10:27or so, that'd be really nice. Um, and we

10:31are recording this as we said before, so

10:32we're going to try to transcribe it so

10:34that we have all of the comments so it's

10:36easier for us to ingest a lot of what is

10:38said. We'll be taking notes, too. But,

10:41um, [clears throat] belt and suspenders.

10:43So, that's it.

10:46That's all I got for you. Thank you for

10:48coming. Uh, and now the floor is open.

10:57Anybody want to comment?

11:02I can comment. Excellent. I was

11:04>> say if no one steps up in a minute,

11:05we're adjourning.

11:08So,

11:09>> hello. Good evening. I'm Peggy Molhern.

11:12I'm here for the Waterbury Land

11:14Initiative. And I have just a couple of

11:18sections that I

11:21think we could do a little adding in.

11:23And one is that um in the community

11:31services I believe is where we have our

11:33parks listed and

11:37there's nothing about the Russell

11:38property which is open to the public and

11:42has trailways trails. though. Um,

11:47and as those of you who are tracking the

11:50permit applications know, we were

11:52putting in a application for parking

11:55there. So, we'll be needing and wanting

11:58the town to be supporting while we

12:01change the parking to make it more

12:03accessible because right now it's kind

12:06of accessible only to people who kind of

12:08know how to get in there. So, um I'd

12:12like that first thing is to if we could

12:13add that um property, the Russell

12:17conservation property into that listing

12:20of the parks and things like that and

12:22then uh of course we'd be happy to be

12:26signed up in there as participating

12:28entity or whatever in the whole where

12:30the nontown the Waterberry land

12:33initiative and the nontown actors

12:36and that brings me to the natural

12:39resources section where we are listed

12:44and in the first place we're listed it's

12:46called Walderbury Land Initiatives with

12:48an S and there should be no S and then

12:52we are not listed specifically in the um

12:57non-town participating entities but we

13:01should be that says Waterberry Land

13:03Trust and essentially the Waterberry

13:06Land Initiative serves in that capacity

13:09in this town. We just have a different

13:11name. So, we we think maybe that

13:14correction edit could be in there. And

13:18then, of course, we're happy to help in

13:21any other way you would like us to help

13:24um and answer any questions. If you are

13:27doing this and have questions of us, uh

13:30we have a Gmail Waterbury land.

13:34They can be found on the web.

13:36>> Clarifying question for you. Um the

13:37Russell property I'm assuming adding

13:40that to the map of parks

13:42>> that would be good. Yes. And you know

13:44where you have the parks listed a

13:46little. It was a little hard for me to

13:49tell on the maps.

13:52>> Was there also a list? I didn't see it.

13:54I mean I looking at the parks and you

13:56blow it up. But

13:58>> Okay.

13:59>> But I was in a rush. So

14:00>> can you tell us can you tell in case

14:02anybody else doesn't know where the

14:03Russell Conservation Property is? It's

14:06on Blush Hill

14:07>> and uh you can access it through

14:10Blackberry Lane or there's uh it's

14:14property that's behind the where the

14:17radio towers are. It's um to the west so

14:21you can access it through there or the

14:23fields before you get to Blackberry

14:26Lane. There's an open field and we're

14:29that's where the parking lot will be and

14:31we're going to be putting in a bench to

14:34honor the uh Chileia Russell who donated

14:37the property and there's paths mowed in

14:40there now so you can walk through those

14:42fields.

14:43>> Great.

14:43>> And get in there.

14:44>> Thank you.

14:44>> Can I ask a question?

14:45>> Yes, sir.

14:46>> Do you do you want us to refer to it as

14:49the Russell property? Is that

14:50>> I think it's I think the full name on

14:52our is called the Russell Conservation

14:55Property. Okay,

14:58thank you.

14:59>> It's actually called the William G and

15:02um Chileia Russell Conservation

15:05Property, but that might be a bit of a

15:07mouthful for everybody. And in fact, we

15:11were told that'd be hard for the 911

15:13sign.

15:15Anyway, that's what it's called.

15:17>> Okay.

15:17>> Thank you.

15:18>> Thank you.

15:18>> Thanks for being here.

15:19>> Thank you. Thanks for all your work.

15:21>> Thanks.

15:24>> Anyone online? Do we have hands?

15:28Not yet. Okay. [clears throat]

15:30Uh, seeing no one online. Anyone from

15:32the room?

15:35>> I'll stir up the pot.

15:38>> You're good at that, Chris.

15:39>> I am. Yep.

15:42So, I grabbed the hard copy the other

15:44day and uh I'm not all the way through

15:46it by any stretch, but I get to the

15:48housing. Would you mind pulling up the

15:50five headings that you had before there?

15:52the affordable housing, the

15:54>> affordable adequate housing.

15:56>> No, the five headings that you had, the

15:58school, the the u economic development.

16:02Yeah, that's the one. Yep. Yep.

16:04>> So, I did get into the housing chapter a

16:08little bit. Um,

16:10my concern was I didn't see any

16:12information in there

16:15and I want everybody in the room to know

16:17that I've spent a 45 years of my career

16:21in the housing industry. So, I'm not

16:24anti-ousing by any stretch. Um, but this

16:29affordable housing issue, the property

16:31taxes, the school system, it all ties

16:34together.

16:36Uh I was looking for information that I

16:41don't know if anybody can even provide

16:46that I mean in the in the housing

16:48chapter it calls for suggests that we

16:51should be building 30 to 40 houses a

16:54year in this town.

16:58My first question is what's what's the

17:01end goal? you know, what's what are we

17:05trying to achieve uh by doing that? And

17:09how does that relate to

17:13at what point? Where's the tipping point

17:15with the amount of housing? Because it

17:17seems like we're pushing this narrative

17:19that more economic development, more

17:22housing will bring down taxes, bring

17:25down the cost of schools, bring down the

17:28affordability aspect.

17:30I wish that we could do the research to

17:33find out what that number is. What what

17:37goal do we meet? Where's the line in the

17:40sand where the cost of things start

17:43going the other way downhill?

17:46Um

17:48because this is the same strategy that

17:50not only this town has had in the past,

17:52but every other town in the state,

17:54including the state,

17:56keeps pushing

17:59and it doesn't seem to be working.

18:02We're just continuing to drag people

18:04down. And I was putting firewood down in

18:06my basement the other day and I had an

18:08epiphany. And I'm thinking about this.

18:10Why why

18:12are things costing so much?

18:16And it came I came to the conclusion

18:18that two things are major factors in the

18:20problems we're facing today. Number one,

18:22the value of the dollar is in the

18:24toilet. Back in 1980, $100, what you

18:28could buy for $100 then buys $11.20 now.

18:34Uh and quite frankly, the other aspect,

18:37the other problem as I see it is that

18:39our

18:41state government has gotten us way out

18:43over our skis. We're over spent beyond

18:45belief and there's no road back under

18:49the current

18:51structure because we're simply out of

18:54money up there. Uh I called in on the

18:57radio program the other day and uh

19:01they had a guy on there talking about

19:04[clears throat]

19:05the state pension program. I called in

19:08and said, "What is that pension program

19:10at now?" 5 billion in the red. Four

19:13years ago, I called in and talked to um

19:16Mike Pichek about that. It was four four

19:19billion in the red. Now it's 5 billion

19:20in the red. So, we're definitely headed

19:22in the right direction when it comes to

19:24affordability.

19:26I'll leave it there.

19:27>> Thanks, Chris.

19:28>> Thank you.

19:32>> I'm just going to Can I

19:34>> Yeah.

19:35>> Hello everybody. I'm new to Waterberry.

19:38I'm uh some may recognize me from Mont

19:40Pillar, but I've lived here for 23 years

19:42in Vermont. I just don't get out much

19:43because I'm a writer. I just wanted to

19:45say hello to every

19:47>> Carlton Anderson. Um Anderson, thank

19:49you.

19:50>> I just want to say to everyone, thank

19:51you for what you do. That's it. Gazing

19:55on the new people. Um you know, I I try

19:59to tell people in these positions,

20:00you're like comet shields. No one sees

20:03like all they see is the stuff over here

20:05and then they they don't see what's

20:07being protected so to speak because they

20:09take that for granted. Um and so I'm new

20:13to Waterberry in these capacities, but

20:16I've been here since Arvard sleeping in

20:18atticss and other stuff. But um I just

20:22want to say I appreciate you all and you

20:25got a I mean you got a big job ahead of

20:27you. Um but it's it's it's not

20:29insurmountable. It's just a matter of

20:31bridging the worlds together in a way

20:35where we choose civility

20:38over everything else

20:41and get it done for the future. I try to

20:43tell people as well, you know, um if you

20:46look at this as a aspect of we're having

20:49fun in the in the immediate, but it's

20:51going to be really fun 20 years from now

20:53for other people, you're just not going

20:55to see it or get credit for it. It's not

20:58about us. It's really about, you know,

21:00the future and it always has been.

21:02That's why we're in this position

21:03because the future was neglected in

21:05certain ways. Um, and you know, I I

21:09always have all the floods in my head

21:11because they impacted me emotionally and

21:16physically and I the people I gaze into

21:19their eyes and I know it impacted all of

21:22us. Um, but I'm I'm one of those people.

21:24Um, so thank you. I just wanted to bring

21:27it to like hello. Bye.

21:30>> Thank you.

21:31>> Thanks.

21:33>> Um, anyone online?

21:40>> Hands.

21:43Nope. Okay. Uh, no hands online. I take

21:46another from the room.

21:51>> Hi, I'm Sierra Nogler. I live up on

21:53Ripley Road in the center. Um, I'm here

21:55representing Discover Waterberry. I'm on

21:57the board of Discover Waterberry and the

22:00new initiative called Waterberry

22:02Pathways Initiative that we've formed

22:04with Discover Waterberry and the Wreck

22:06Committee. And I and this group

22:10collectively really thoroughly reviewed

22:12the transportation chapter and what

22:14improvements that could be made. Um, I

22:16did send our um, combined comments over

22:19to Neil earlier, but I think the biggest

22:22takeaway that we had was incorporating a

22:25list of priority projects into that

22:28chapter within the goals to specify what

22:31has been many years in the planning of

22:35what we think is priority for the town

22:38in terms of connectivity of pathways,

22:40trails, and just safety of multi

22:42multimodal movements. Um, and we created

22:46this list of priority projects from a

22:49lot of feedback that you all solicited

22:52during this this process. And we've held

22:54a couple of trail summits with a lot of

22:56different stakeholders in the area and

22:59have come together with the rec

23:01committee and we think that these are

23:02the projects that we can chip away at.

23:04Um, we utilize some of the results from

23:06the better connections grant as well. um

23:08their better connections project in the

23:10center. And I think having this list, I

23:14know we talked to you before and there

23:16was a purpose for having things a little

23:18vague in the town plan, but the way this

23:22list is u meant to be is pretty broad

23:25and it just sets these priorities to

23:27just put to life and hopefully some

23:29momentum into some of these projects

23:31that we are hoping to contribute the

23:34implementation of as well with the rec

23:36committee.

23:38I think that's all.

23:39>> Awesome.

23:39>> Thank you so much.

23:45>> What I have to share kind of doubles

23:47down on Sierra's work. Emil luncher. I

23:50actually just moved to Morrisville.

23:51Please forgive me. I plan to be back

23:52someday. But affordability. Um I'm a

23:55member of the Waterberry Rec Committee

23:57as well as the Waterberry Pathways

23:59Initiative. So we also shared several

24:02pages of some detailed notes. Apologies

24:04in advance. Um, I just also want to

24:06start with saying thank you for the work

24:08that you've done. The website that

24:09you've built is beautiful. I care a lot

24:10about websites and I thought it was very

24:12easy to navigate. So, great job. Um, so

24:15instead of getting into the specifics, I

24:16just wanted to kind of generalize some

24:18of the themes that we came across. We

24:19reviewed, of course, the community

24:22services because that's where recreation

24:23was housed heavily. But we also looked

24:26at municipal services, transportation,

24:28natural resources, and the housing

24:30sections. and appreciate that there's

24:32some recreation woven into all of those

24:34sections and want to emphasize the

24:36importance of that. Specifically,

24:38Waterberry is a hub for recreation. So,

24:40integrating that into all aspect as

24:42aspects of the town plan is appreciated

24:44and encouraged. Um, specifically when

24:46speaking about recreation, talking about

24:49it for access for all ages and abilities

24:52and both indoor and outdoor. Um, when we

24:55get into some of the specifics, we had

24:58highlighted some key priorities. One of

25:00them being developing a comprehensive

25:02parks and trail master plan. So, it

25:04doesn't exist. We want that to exist. I

25:07think the rec committee could help drive

25:08that forward. Um, we did want to

25:11specifically call out replacing the town

25:13pool and wreck building. We talk a lot

25:15about outdoor recreation, but there was

25:17a little bit of a miss for indoor

25:18recreation. I think that's a big the

25:20wreck building specifically is a big

25:22piece of that. Um, the as Sierra just

25:26mentioned, all of the trails work.

25:27There's improving pedestrian trail and

25:29connectivity. We also emphasize that

25:31same list of priority projects. I think

25:33that there's again I agree with the

25:35vagueness, but there's some benefit to

25:37the town plan having these specific

25:39projects listed so that as we reach out

25:41for potential funding when it's hard

25:44written into a town plan, I think that

25:46really benefits those reaching out for

25:47funding. Um,

25:50and

25:52I wanted to also double down on the just

25:54I believe there was a map of all of the

25:56facilities, but writing that out into a

25:58list as well, I think would be

26:00beneficial. I know it would be very

26:01lengthy. Um, I think I still would we

26:05all agree that that would be a valuable

26:06addition.

26:08That was a lot and I spoke really

26:09quickly, but thank you for your time.

26:10>> Thank you.

26:11>> Thanks.

26:16Sorry.

26:20Uh online. Yes. No.

26:22>> Nope.

26:24>> Quiet Zoom room.

26:26>> Um okay.

26:30In person.

26:35Hi, I'm Brenda Hedges. I'm just here as

26:38myself, not representing anyone else.

26:42Um I have been uh I was a member on the

26:46waterberry land initiative. So I'm

26:48interested in conservation and

26:51particularly in agricultural and our

26:53working lands. Um and I feel very

26:57strongly that this is a really important

26:59thing for us to be looking at.

27:01>> Could you speak up?

27:03>> I'll try.

27:05Um

27:06I feel that our uh agricultural soils

27:10are uh very precious that once they're

27:13gone we cannot get them back and I would

27:17love to see some real concerted effort

27:20to look at conserving those soils and

27:24making sure that development is

27:27um that they're considered as we

27:29[clears throat] do development. more

27:31than considered that they're protected

27:32as we do development. Um, I did do some

27:36extensive

27:38uh notes which I submitted online. I

27:40didn't want to bring all of that here

27:42tonight, but I do have a few things. Um,

27:45first I wanted to thank you all for all

27:47the work that's gone into this already.

27:49I know it's been a long process and that

27:52you've really put a lot into it. Um and

27:55then the specific things I had for

27:57tonight was that under the land use

27:59section the goal to two supporting

28:03working lands, recreational access and

28:05natural resource areas. Strategy 2.2

28:09says ensure zoning bylaws support the

28:12viability of working lands including

28:14agricultural resources and responsible

28:18forestry.

28:19And I just had a question because I

28:21didn't see anything further down below

28:23that about how are we going to ensure

28:26that that happens. There's nothing in

28:28the plan that says how that will happen.

28:32I would like to see some specific steps

28:34as to how we're going to ensure

28:36protection of those agricultural

28:38resources.

28:40Um

28:42then the second one I had was and I

28:46think this is under natural resources.

28:48Um, goal three, guide development to

28:51protect natural resources identified as

28:54part of strategy 1.1.

28:57Um, strategy 3.1 says, limit development

29:00in sensitive areas and direct growth

29:03toward more densely developed areas and

29:06designated village centers to reduce

29:08sprawl and protect intact natural and

29:10agricultural resources.

29:13And for that one, I was just thinking

29:15sensitive areas is a very very broad

29:17term. Um, if we could get some

29:20definition in there as to what that

29:22means, I think it would be very

29:24clarifying.

29:28And then the last thing I had was

29:30strategy 3.2 says, update zoning and

29:33subdivision bylaws to consider prime

29:37agricultural soils and land use

29:39conflicts.

29:40And I would like to um urge you to

29:44change that word consider to protect

29:48because I really think we need to

29:49protect our agricultural soils.

29:52>> And that's all I had.

29:54>> Thank you.

29:55>> Yeah.

29:55>> Can I ask a quick question? In your

29:57written comments, you said that what

29:59specific steps we should take to protect

30:01agricultural soils.

30:02>> Did you throw Did you put some

30:04suggestions in your written comments?

30:05>> Yes, I did.

30:06>> Okay, great.

30:06>> Great. Thank you for doing that whole

30:08page of them.

30:09>> That's really helpful. Yeah.

30:10>> Okay. Thanks.

30:16>> Zoom room.

30:20>> Nothing.

30:23>> Salad.

30:24>> It is difficult to hear you.

30:27>> 604.

30:28>> 604.

30:28>> Okay.

30:30>> Uh if it's still difficult to hear us,

30:32please do let us know in the chat. Um

30:34see no hands online. Go back to the

30:37room.

30:43>> [clears throat]

30:48>> Joe Camarado from Waterbury Center and

30:50I'm not here to talk about housing. I'm

30:52actually here

30:53>> what

30:54>> I'm actually here on behalf of the

30:56Waterberry Historical Society and um

30:59especially on the chapter about historic

31:01resources and there is a map in there

31:04that maps the historic structures but

31:07it's not inclusive of all historic

31:09structures in the town. In fact, it's

31:12looking at the contributing structures

31:13that are in the historic districts and

31:16there is actually available from the

31:18state all of the properties in town that

31:22have been listed on the state register

31:23of historic places and they're and

31:25they're bigger than just in the historic

31:28districts, right? They're spread

31:29throughout Waterberry Center and others.

31:31And I think it's important that those

31:33sites be recognized in the plan,

31:35especially as you begin to talk about

31:37your goals and strategies because you do

31:39mention historic structures, but you

31:41don't define it. And you might want to

31:43think about some definition that makes a

31:45recognition to these um state registered

31:49places. Um so when we get into the topic

31:54around um

31:57supporting their preservation through

31:59zoning and the development review board

32:01that we could be specific about what

32:03types what structures that we're talking

32:05about there. The only other comment I

32:08would have is you do say you know um

32:12uh you use the word consider consider

32:14historic preservation values and

32:16updates. I would prefer to say instill

32:19historic preservation values and updates

32:21to the zoning bylaws and development

32:24review processes.

32:27>> Thanks.

32:28>> Thank you.

32:29>> Hey Joe, I have a nuts and bolts

32:31question for you because I'm the one who

32:32created that map.

32:34>> Do they have a map of those structures

32:36or is it the awful PDF database? It's

32:40the awful PDF database, but the

32:42historical society has tried to put that

32:45into a form that could be mapped and

32:47used.

32:48>> Yeah, the Okay, I can work on that some

32:51more. Um, to be totally honest with you,

32:53I took the horrible PDF database and got

32:57horribly frustrated after spending a lot

32:59of hours trying to like figure out a

33:01clever way to do it automatically.

33:03>> So, I will put some time into that and

33:05see if I can get farther along. Um,

33:10yeah, it's uh anyway. Yeah, thank you.

33:13>> Yeah, okay,

33:14>> I'll figure it out.

33:26>> Too many maps.

33:29>> Yeah,

33:31>> but if we did it, we'd have the best

33:32historical structure map in of any town

33:34in the state.

33:37Uh, anyone online yet or no? Not yet.

33:40Okay.

33:42Oh, Carrie. Oh, Carrie. Okay, perfect.

33:44Carrie,

33:46>> hey.

33:47>> Hi.

33:47>> Can you hear me?

33:49>> Very well.

33:52>> Um, I have like I'm just going to follow

33:55up regarding like the definition of

33:58sensitive areas.

34:00Um I I think that's something throughout

34:03the plan that I had a question about.

34:08Um

34:10throughout the plan there are sensitive

34:12areas, high-risk areas, risk areas. Like

34:17can we have a definition or glossery

34:20about what that actually means and what

34:24the definition is?

34:27What would you suggest?

34:30>> Maybe a glossery. Um I I would not want

34:34someone in the future to make that

34:38decision.

34:40um if this is going to be the plan

34:45for the next I don't know how many years

34:49um can we

34:53make a definition a glossery like what

34:56is high risk what is risk

34:59um what are sensitive areas

35:02>> I was asking more if you had a list that

35:04you would include in those categories

35:09>> I don't I think that's up to me. I think

35:11that's up to you as the planning

35:13director and the planning commission.

35:17>> Noted. Thank you. Um,

35:20>> anything else on that?

35:23>> That's it.

35:25>> Thanks.

35:25>> Thank you.

35:26>> Thank you.

35:26>> Thanks.

35:32Uh, anyone in the room since we had

35:34someone in Zoom?

35:40>> S.

35:41>> Hi.

35:42>> Hi.

35:44>> My name is Sila Larson. I'm in

35:46Waterberry Center and um I'm also a

35:49member of the Waterberry Conservation

35:51Commission. Um, but I'm here today to

35:53speak on behalf of me as a person, not

35:55Waterberry Conservation Commission. Um,

35:59also I know everyone said thank you. I

36:01also just want to say thank you. This is

36:03a tremendous amount of work. I love the

36:06sort of the visuals, the maps. I'm a map

36:08person, so I think it's very accessible

36:10in that regard. Um, and um, I just

36:14wanted to share that.

36:17I wanted to share specifically, you

36:21know, because I'm on the um, well, a

36:23couple of questions actually. I'll start

36:25with questions.

36:27Will we be able to review a revised plan

36:31between now and the select board meeting

36:34or is this the only chance?

36:36>> No, the goal is to revise it uh submit

36:40it to select board for their

36:41consideration. They then put out a

36:43notice of their hearings.

36:45>> Okay.

36:45>> And so at that point like that new draft

36:49is out there.

36:50>> Gotcha.

36:51>> So you'll be able to see and then part

36:53of our charge is to

36:55>> track our changes. Okay.

36:56>> So, that's our next

36:59>> Yeah, it's our next task.

37:00>> Gotcha. [snorts] Okay. Um Neil, I'll be

37:03sending you my written comments. I

37:04haven't done that yet, but I'll I'll get

37:06them to you.

37:07>> Okay.

37:08>> Um so, I'm I've been focusing on the

37:10natural resources section. Uh and

37:14there's in goal number one, strategy

37:171.2.

37:19uh working with experts and land owners,

37:21the conservation commission will propose

37:23a plan to manage the Shootzville Hill

37:25Wildlife Corridor by the year 2030.

37:29I don't think that's very ambitious plan

37:32and I would love for us to have

37:35something more ambitious in here. I

37:38would love for us to say that we are

37:40working towards zoning bylaws or an

37:43overlay district to protect that very

37:47precious resource. And I think in the

37:50narrative you have that graph and it is

37:53actually clear that that is the highest

37:55priority of all of the people you

37:57surveyed. And yet it doesn't have its

38:00own goal. You have a goal that's about

38:02wetlands. You have a goal about tree

38:04canopy. But the wildlife corridor is

38:07sort of lumped in with um with uh

38:12waterways and habitat. And so there's a

38:15little bit of a disconnect between the

38:18narrative and the aspiration section

38:20that I think should be addressed so that

38:24you have what people think is the most

38:26important and then that being sort of

38:28represented in what is number one goal

38:32um and have it be its own sort of

38:34standalone topic. Um

38:38>> can can I can I ask something on that

38:39before we continue? Um

38:42I think I'm going to my recollection is

38:44we put that in there so this didn't drag

38:46on to 2035 and 2040 but we've gotten a

38:50number of comments saying we've we've

38:52given you too much given too much time.

38:54Mhm.

38:54>> So I guess what I would say is if you

38:57want if people who are going to be

38:58involved in this particularly

38:59conservation commission us if you think

39:01there's a shorter date we should do

39:04>> I think we can put it in there and also

39:05even if not

39:07>> this is this is a do something by 2030

39:09we could do things quicker if you can

39:11get [clears throat] it done.

39:12>> The question is is it realistic to put a

39:14one-year time frame and actually get it

39:16done. So that's I think we were striking

39:18the balance on not letting it run the

39:20clock but not putting such a tight

39:22deadline on. Right.

39:24>> So,

39:24>> and I think I think I understand that I

39:27so please correct me if I'm wrong, but a

39:29management plan is a plan, not an a

39:33regulatory tool to do something.

39:36So, a plan is just now we put a plan

39:39together to do something to protect it

39:42in the future. So, you're really pushing

39:44the protection even further out into the

39:46future. Um, so I'm wondering if it could

39:49be like what is the what is the planning

39:52commission thinking in terms of um

39:55zoning bylaws after the town plan? Maybe

39:57we could have some conversations about

40:00bringing it in there considering that

40:02that was the number one priority.

40:05>> Do do any of the other um priorities

40:08have dates on them or just this one?

40:11>> I would have to look at all of them. I

40:13don't recall a hint. I think that was

40:15one of the only with a very specific

40:18date.

40:19>> So that that does have priority by

40:21giving it that attention that's saying

40:23that that's that's the that's the

40:25deadline for it. Um I guess then maybe

40:29if we want to stick with 2030 which I

40:31think is still not super ambitious maybe

40:34then change it into um discuss

40:39other options. It's also the management

40:41plan that I sort of disagree with

40:43because it's not a regulatory lever. Um,

40:46and I think we could discuss other

40:49options, other tools in our tool belt to

40:53protect that precious resource before

40:55it's too late. Um and I think yeah so

41:00>> um just to contextualize this in the

41:03overall process like town plans do

41:05usually influence bylaws especially for

41:07towns that are undergoing like bylaw

41:09rewrites and modernization that sort of

41:11thing and we are

41:13in the middle of that process like phase

41:15one happened we were going to move

41:17directly to phase two instead we noticed

41:20that hey our town plan is expiring

41:22that's what kicked off this process and

41:24then also it made sense to us as a

41:26commission to do this process and then

41:29to do the remainder of bylaws within the

41:32town to actually unify our bylaws,

41:34>> right?

41:35>> Um so just to contextualize it like this

41:38is referenced in that process. So

41:41>> um noted uh and I think we've had other

41:44comments from other members of

41:46conservation commission and conservation

41:48commission itself saying similar things.

41:50So I

41:52>> Yeah. Uh yeah. No. And um what was I

41:56thinking? Um

42:00well, now it's escaping me. But um but

42:04of course, yeah, that that process

42:07sorting bylaws is its own process, too.

42:09And it may not be approved, right? uh

42:13people might not want those restrictions

42:15that are coming with with overlay

42:17districts and so on bylaws but at least

42:19have that from the 2018 plan it says

42:24uh I think it's something like consider

42:26protection of high elevation areas

42:30through bylaws. So there it is called

42:32out and I believe that there is

42:35protection now through the DRB that

42:37there has to be some extra review when

42:39you want to do development in in high

42:41elevation areas.

42:42>> We do. Yeah, we have an overlay for

42:45steep slopes and high elevation 1,200

42:47and500 ft.

42:48>> Gotcha. I was going to say you know more

42:50about that than I do.

42:51>> That would it comes through all the

42:52time.

42:52>> Okay. So So something similar to that.

42:55Yeah. Rather than just just a management

42:58plan.

43:00>> Um Is that is that um a technical

43:03question Dana that is is for zoning

43:07versus the plan?

43:09>> What is sorry

43:10>> to to satisfy what she just was talking

43:12about? I think I think you know I think

43:15you might be conflating zoning and the

43:17plan because like he said before this is

43:20this is not a zoning plan. It is that

43:22guides the zone.

43:23>> Oh sure. Yeah. I'm talking about you are

43:26requesting

43:27um management plan for the Shootsville

43:29Hill corridor and and that's still a

43:33plan not a regulatory lever. What what

43:36I'm hearing from this Monica just to

43:38clarify what I'm hearing is that you

43:40know recognizes the town plan as

43:42difference in bylaws and is requesting a

43:45more stringent or more protective I

43:49guess um measure to be stated in the

43:52plan that then informs subsequent

43:54action. So instead of just a management

43:55plan for shootsville like ah we're going

43:58to try to do this.

43:59>> It's more like we're going to actually

44:00draw a line and make rules.

44:03>> Correct.

44:04So that's what I'm hearing.

44:06>> Great. Okay. Thank you. I think I've

44:09taken my three minutes, but I do have a

44:11a couple I have a couple of more if I

44:13may.

44:13>> You can come back back. Awesome.

44:16>> Thank you.

44:17>> We co-opted that a little bit. I

44:18apologize for that.

44:20>> Who's on the timer?

44:22>> All right.

44:23>> Zoom room.

44:28>> Zoom room. Uh in person. Next person.

44:40I was like, maybe it's C again. No,

44:43Teresa.

44:44>> Hi, good evening. Uh Teresa Wood. Um I

44:47live in Waterberry. Um uh I'm just going

44:50to add my thanks to what everybody else

44:52has said. Um not just about the hard

44:54work, but about the format, the

44:56interactivity of the document. um it it

45:00feels much more accessible and um it's

45:04actionoriented in lots of places. Um I

45:08think there could be a little bit of

45:09improvement on the actionoriented side.

45:11Um uh I think a couple people have

45:13spoken to the use of the word consider

45:15and you know if this is going to be the

45:17direction that we're heading in, I think

45:19we could uh beef up some of those um

45:22verbs. Um the because this becomes a

45:26piece of history essentially. Um I put

45:29this in my written comments from the

45:31online link. Um uh there's I couldn't

45:35find it. I was looking for it tonight

45:36but I couldn't find it. There's

45:38reference to um the town and village

45:41merging and that is not what happened.

45:44And so I I think that it needs to be

45:47clarified. the village uh relinquished

45:51um its charter um and the you know Ephod

45:55was um established but the town and

45:57village did not merge it um that would

46:00require a vote which you know

46:03many of us have been through that vote

46:05and I just I think that that should be

46:08um cleared up because that it's these

46:11things become historical documents and

46:13people read them as fact and I just um

46:15thought that that would be important to

46:17correct

46:18Um the other thing I want to acknowledge

46:20is um that you um acknowledge the role

46:23of other organizations, other

46:25non-governmental organizations and I

46:28think that's really important because

46:30they add to the vitality and the um

46:34sense of community that we have here. So

46:36I just wanted to say thank you for

46:37acknowledging that as well. Thanks.

46:39>> Thank you.

46:40>> Thanks.

46:46Anyone in the online world?

46:50>> No one from the Matrix

46:53uh in the room.

47:04>> What What hat are you wearing?

47:06[laughter]

47:07>> I left him back there. Um I am here uh

47:11as Roger Clap on Randle Street uh

47:14executive director of Discover Waterbury

47:17uh which is still officially called uh

47:20revitalizing Waterbury. Um in full skill

47:24disclosure I'm also serve on the

47:26Waterberry Select Board but I am here to

47:29talk about Discover Waterbury. Um, our

47:32mission is to uh preserve, promote and

47:36enhance the

47:38uh economic, historic and social

47:41vitality of Waterbury for residents,

47:44businesses and visitors alike. Um and uh

47:49so in that that gives us a pretty large

47:53uh working uh area. Uh and we do a lot

47:57and I appreciate the fact that uh you

48:00folks have done a great job of uh

48:02engaging uh the community. Uh a number

48:05of people that we're working with have

48:06already spoken tonight. Uh and others

48:09have submitted uh comments online

48:11including uh Gretchen Chisel, our

48:13economic development coordinator. Uh so

48:16I want to emphasize the the those

48:20comments that have already been

48:21submitted and support those. Um and then

48:25uh just a couple of things of note uh in

48:27the historic uh preservation section. Um

48:32the uh

48:36uh I'd like to note that uh revitalizing

48:38Waterbury has been directly involved in

48:42a couple of major historic preservation

48:44projects and notably the uh Simpson

48:47Graves uh block downtown which was the

48:51reason for which the organization was

48:52founded back in 1991.

48:55Uh and then uh with Green Mountain

48:57Coffee Roasters uh the renovation of the

49:00Waterbury train station and uh that

49:04continues to be part of our mission. Um

49:06we're not directly involved uh with uh

49:10historic uh preservation projects right

49:13now, but we do uh help uh businesses and

49:18entrepreneurs with uh their historic tax

49:21credits. uh one of whom received $40,000

49:26this past year and we think that we're

49:28there's going to be another one uh

49:30awarded in the next week or so. Uh and

49:34uh we are uniquely positioned to help uh

49:36leverage some of that uh support. And so

49:41u one of the things that you have done

49:42this year is to note organizations that

49:46can implement some of the strategic

49:48strategies that you've uh outlined. And

49:51I think that we should be mentioned uh

49:53in that regard. Um as uh uh our uh

49:59newest board member um Sierra Naggler

50:03noted uh we are uh moving on into uh

50:07Waterberry Pathways initiative in

50:09collaboration with water and uh the uh

50:13wreck committee and wreck department.

50:16Um, and uh, this past year, uh, we were

50:22able to work with the town in securing a

50:24downtown transportation grant of

50:27$200,000.

50:28And we're looking to apply for uh a

50:31follow-on grant of $150,000 this year uh

50:35to support further uh development of uh

50:39access to uh more parking um wayfinding

50:45uh and uh more uh sidewalk development

50:49so that people can access parking a bit

50:52offsite from the uh core of downtown.

50:54[clears throat]

50:55Uh, and this is something that's

50:57supported by uh, the Waterberry area

50:59development uh, committee uh, with whom

51:02we work uh, and uh, some of Gretchen's

51:05comments relate to that. So, um those

51:08are just points that I think are worth

51:11uh noting. And the reason that it's that

51:13it's particularly important is that when

51:15it goes into the town plan and we can

51:19cite that in uh these um grant

51:23applications.

51:25uh it strengthens uh our uh compet

51:28competitiveness in receiving those

51:31grants uh uh and takes some of the

51:34burden off the uh town taxpayers.

51:37Uh I'll leave it there. Uh did one thing

51:40uh one thing that I wanted to note is

51:42that uh we are having a uh another uh

51:46public session on Monday at 7:00 uh to

51:52look at uh some of what can be done.

51:55We're working with the U National Park

51:58Service uh on the uh planning of the

52:03Brand Meadow and Marberry Pathways and

52:06River access in particular. What are

52:09some of the competitive features uh that

52:11uh will fit with the uh flood mitigation

52:16uh and also uh address some intra

52:19community interests in um the

52:22[clears throat] social uh and

52:24recreational interests of the community

52:26uh and we welcome people to participate

52:29in that. So, thank you.

52:30>> Before you go, way out of a question.

52:34>> You go first.

52:35>> You go first.

52:37>> Um, how would you like to be referred to

52:39in this town plan because I know you're

52:41changing names. So, I think we had said

52:43revitalizing Waterberry. I know it's

52:45changing.

52:45>> We're Yeah, we are rebranding as

52:48Discover Waterberry. So, we'll go with

52:50that. Um,

52:50>> discover waterberry should be the across

52:53the board. Okay. Noted. Thank you. So,

52:56in the transportation chapter, can we

52:58put are you volunteering Waterberry

52:59Pathways to be in our um our non-Town

53:02groups to help out as well?

53:04>> Yeah. Uh or Discover Waterberry?

53:06>> You're already in there. We already

53:07signed you up.

53:08>> Okay. Yeah.

53:10>> So, I'm looking I'm looking to add.

53:12>> You think we put the

53:14>> Yes. I I think uh you know we uh will uh

53:17continue to work uh on uh using that

53:20brand of Waterbury Pathways uh to uh

53:23denote uh this focus on uh multi-use

53:27non-motorized pathway development.

53:30>> Okay. Thank you.

53:31>> Any other questions?

53:33>> Thank you.

53:33>> Thank you.

53:34>> Thanks.

53:36>> Anyone online?

53:38>> Not yet.

53:38>> Okay.

53:40Uh in person

53:42>> and we got one online.

53:43>> Oh, we do. Oh, you're the dumb.

53:46>> Sorry.

53:47>> Sorry. Oh, Carrie.

53:49>> Carrie.

53:51Go ahead, Carrie.

53:54>> Oh, she was clapping.

53:56>> Oh,

53:57>> gotcha. [laughter]

53:59Well, we appreciate that. Um, all right.

54:02So, I guess in uh in person then,

54:04please, if anyone has anything.

54:08>> All right. I'm Josh Lincoln uh Blush

54:10Hill and um lived up there half my life

54:16uh longer than anywhere else. And I'll

54:19limit uh one I want to thank you. You've

54:21done a lot of hard work. I really

54:23appreciate it. It's uh amazing. Um, but

54:27I'll limit my uh comments to one thing

54:31and be fairly brief. And you've

54:34discussed some Sila has brought up some

54:36of them and uh I apologize. Uh my

54:40hearing isn't great. So I might have

54:41missed uh some of what she said, but my

54:44comments are going to relate to the

54:46timeline of 20 2030 for addressing um

54:52the establishment of definitive

54:55conservation framework for some of our

54:58critical resources. Shootsville Wildlife

55:01Carter, Sharkyville Wildlife Carter. And

55:04I just think if I have one thing uh that

55:08I'd like to accomplish, you know, and

55:10I'm going to limit my comments to one

55:11thing, it is that we not kick that can

55:14down the road, that we do whatever we

55:16can because

55:18much of the reasons that we

55:22um enjoy the quality of what we have

55:25here and that people come to visit. What

55:28we have here is because we don't allow

55:32you know or we have not yet had the

55:35incremental

55:37paralization fragmentation development

55:40of areas such as that we'll see on

55:43Williston Road, Shelurn Road and areas

55:46that um have made the communities become

55:51not what they are. I worked up in

55:54Willist before any of the,

55:57you know, any of that was developed.

55:59There were farm fields. I saw bobcats

56:01and coyote running through that 6:00 in

56:05the morning on my way to work. And, you

56:06know, obviously it's a far cry from

56:08that. And my goal would be that we do

56:12whatever we can to not wait till 2030 to

56:16preserve these areas. And

56:21um I I feel like there should be an you

56:24know and again this isn't my area of

56:26expertise. So, you know, whether it's an

56:28overlay district, which I would think

56:30would be the the most obvious thing, or

56:34enhanced

56:36conserv enhanced development review or

56:41um you know, in large conservation

56:44districts, which when you talk to fish

56:46and wild wildlife, you know, they say,

56:48you know, 17 is a minimum acres, but

56:51whatever it is, that's not my area of

56:53expertise. And again, like you said,

56:55this isn't a zoning um discussion,

56:59but

57:00I would like to do whatever we can so

57:03that we avoid every time something comes

57:06up like this having potential

57:10latigenous

57:11issues between the town and whoever's

57:14trying to do something there. If we can

57:16be definitive, do it before 2030 and

57:20protect what I think is, you know, the

57:23number one thing that we have to do. I

57:27think we just have to do it and and make

57:29it happen. So, I'm going to leave that.

57:32Those are my comments. Thank you.

57:34>> Thank you.

57:35>> Thank you.

57:35>> Appreciate that.

57:43>> Nothing.

57:46Okay.

57:48In the room.

57:56>> Uh I'm Aaron Starmer uh from Maple

57:59Street and Waterberry Center. Uh I'm

58:01part of the recreation committee, but I

58:04think Emma did an excellent job

58:06communicating what we've already sent to

58:08you. So, I'm coming more from just a

58:10perspective of someone looking at the

58:12town plan and thinking forward as this

58:14being a eight-year document [snorts] and

58:16all this work you've done with maps and

58:19presumably it's not a um

58:22it's not a living document in the way

58:25that that this is going to be populated

58:27over those eight years where the maps

58:29would be updated and the graphs would be

58:31updated. Um, as a citizen, I want to see

58:35that data. And a big part of the town

58:37plan is is about tracking. And, you

58:40know, there's so much in there about

58:42tracking this data. Um, but the average

58:44citizen, as we can see, is not here in

58:47this room. Whether they're looking at

58:49that town plan, I don't know. Um,

58:52whether they're going to revisit it

58:54after it's done, I don't know. But if is

58:56there some mechanism in the town plan

58:59saying we're going to take this data

59:00we're gonna that we've already created

59:02this this framework we're going to take

59:04this tracking data and we're going to

59:06make it accessible to the public um in

59:08in the sense that [snorts]

59:10then the public will know what

59:12facilities

59:14um are being used what what what where

59:17the needs are where you know where our

59:19priorities are as a community um and I

59:22think that's extremely helpful and

59:24you've done this excellent work getting

59:26that all here, but I'm just afraid that

59:28it's going to be buried on the site um

59:31where you have to click through and most

59:33people might think, oh, there's that's

59:35probably just a PDF doc document of a

59:37bunch of writing that doesn't concern me

59:39uh when there's so much good data in

59:41there and and your goal is is great of

59:44tracking all this. Um, so that was my

59:47main thinking while while reading it.

59:50And you know, we're living in a world

59:51now where that is much easier to do than

59:55it used to be when a town plan used to

59:56just be a document sitting somewhere.

59:59Um, so that's that's what I would love

1:00:02to see from going forward because you've

1:00:04done all this great work already and and

1:00:06we we all appreciate it clearly. So,

1:00:09>> can I ask you a question?

1:00:10>> Yeah. Um, so if I'm understanding

1:00:12correctly, like and you're right, like

1:00:14the town plan is a static document. We

1:00:16don't

1:00:16>> update, change, etc. We we can't, right?

1:00:19Um, unless we do this process.

1:00:22>> Um, so then what you're saying is, you

1:00:23know, sort of taking some of that like

1:00:26these are the things we want to track,

1:00:28right? The things that we've said in the

1:00:29plan we want to track in the

1:00:31organizations and what have you, and

1:00:32making some sort of dashboard, portal,

1:00:36etc., where it's like, hey, we said

1:00:37we're going to do this and goal

1:00:38whatever.

1:00:39>> Yeah. here's what we started with and

1:00:42here's what we're seeing now. And that

1:00:45would be kind of a separate parallel

1:00:46thing that's just a working living

1:00:48document that gets updated that's

1:00:50somewhat centralized for like

1:00:53all the initiatives call it that we're

1:00:55working on.

1:00:56>> Yeah. and you know something that people

1:00:57can revisit every year, committees,

1:01:00citizens, you know, uh uh town meeting

1:01:02day that this is something that we all

1:01:04have access to as opposed to, you know,

1:01:07[snorts] something that's being talked

1:01:08about at these meetings that most people

1:01:10are not attending.

1:01:13>> Yeah. Okay.

1:01:15>> Thanks.

1:01:15>> Thank you.

1:01:16>> Thank you. Good suggestion

1:01:19online.

1:01:20>> Okay, cool. We got

1:01:24>> Hi there.

1:01:26hearing me? Okay.

1:01:28>> Yeah.

1:01:28>> Yeah. Yeah.

1:01:28>> Okay. Great. For those that don't know

1:01:30me, um I'm Amy Marshall Carney. I live

1:01:32in Waterberry Center. I am the

1:01:34Conservation Commission chair. Tonight,

1:01:37I had no intention of um talking about

1:01:40what I'd submitted to you all in depth

1:01:43in a document and it's been echoed here

1:01:45with um Sila and um Josh. So, as it

1:01:49relates to that, I'll just unless you

1:01:50want me to highlight that, I I can. Um

1:01:54what I was here to talk about more is I

1:01:57[sighs] well a couple things I will call

1:01:59out just for those that are in the room

1:02:00that some of the feedback I shared was

1:02:02specific to natural resources but some

1:02:04was also specific to the time aotment um

1:02:08allowed for this public review and and I

1:02:11I'm I'm still have more to do and I just

1:02:14felt like if we had more time I think

1:02:16the the review could be thorough. Um, so

1:02:19I just wanted to say that um for

1:02:21everyone's um to hear. Um, I also should

1:02:25start by saying thank you very much

1:02:26because I do recognize as I'm going

1:02:28through this document I print had a

1:02:31printed version. Um, it's a lot of work.

1:02:34So it's a lot of work to draft and I and

1:02:36I know that you all were putting a lot

1:02:37of time in on those drafting sessions.

1:02:40So I don't want any of this feedback to

1:02:41minimize that effort as well. Um, so I'm

1:02:45not I when I step back, I also wanted to

1:02:48look at this through the lens of them

1:02:49fitting together. And I saw some

1:02:51inongruence that I'm not sure how you

1:02:53all are thinking about taking that in to

1:02:56consideration as you're um taking in

1:02:58individual feedbacks by section, but as

1:03:01I read each of them, each chapter on

1:03:03their own, and again, I have more to do,

1:03:05but they all seem to make sense. Just

1:03:08there was also some parts where there

1:03:10were conflicting. So, for example, the

1:03:12housing chapter tells us to put new

1:03:15growth where water and sewer already

1:03:17runs, which is downtown and the village

1:03:19centers. Um, but the flood resiliency

1:03:22chapter is using the town's map and

1:03:25telling us to build new growth away from

1:03:27the river corridor. Um, which turns out

1:03:30to be the same four neighborhoods we've

1:03:32got, right? Like Union Street, Butler,

1:03:34Elm, and Randall, and then South Main.

1:03:38Um, and so if we're planning to add the

1:03:40density to the to those areas that are

1:03:43called out as high as flood risks, then

1:03:47we also have these federal programs that

1:03:49are being used to help pay for them.

1:03:52There's risk inherently built into that

1:03:54and are um and both, you know, are kind

1:03:57of some of those funding plan plans are

1:03:59listed as, you know, either suspended or

1:04:01potentially will be. So just didn't know

1:04:03if that if you all had looked at it

1:04:04through that lens. The bigger one here

1:04:07as I think through my residents is

1:04:10property taxes. Um, you know, so they're

1:04:12n you all listed it early and it's named

1:04:15as a single top like community concern

1:04:18and it wasn't just once it's referenced

1:04:20at least three separate times and three

1:04:22separate chapters. So when I think

1:04:25through that lens then the plan never

1:04:27really adds up what this is all like own

1:04:31land protection strategies and which may

1:04:33sound a little odd for me coming from

1:04:35the conservation lens where we're trying

1:04:36to add some protections but we've got

1:04:39the river corridor you know you've got

1:04:41the ridge line overlays we've got the

1:04:42habitat corridors and then is there also

1:04:46this look in terms of the taxable land

1:04:49we have left so while it's asking For

1:04:53example, you know, the 4.3 million in

1:04:56flood project, the new storm water plan,

1:04:58and then we've got the school tax rate

1:05:01already up what, 25% in 5 years,

1:05:05something like that. 20 25%. You know,

1:05:07so all of those on their own are again

1:05:09reasonable, but I'm not quite sure how

1:05:12it's all going to fit together stacked

1:05:14on that if the goal remain one of the

1:05:17goals you have is the community has is

1:05:19to highlight on property tax. So, one

1:05:22more specific example that might help is

1:05:25the housing chapter, you know, counts

1:05:27new construction as a way to bring in

1:05:29more kids into the school. Well, the the

1:05:31next chapter you have talks about

1:05:33enrollments already down 5% since 2021.

1:05:38Um, the school committee, you know,

1:05:39they're discussing, as you know, or

1:05:41should know at the public level,

1:05:43Brookside Elementary and all these other

1:05:44places. Um, so they just they don't look

1:05:47like they're agreeing with one another,

1:05:49the chapters. And so if this is intended

1:05:51to be a plan that's holistic for the

1:05:52town, I would expect some of that to get

1:05:54addressed in that way. And if if all of

1:05:59the costs they don't it doesn't seem to

1:06:01be landing

1:06:03evenly here. Um again, each chapter is I

1:06:07think almost all of them if I've read

1:06:09the um they're adding on layers of bylaw

1:06:13review onto the like onto parcels and

1:06:17the housing chapter specifically. you

1:06:19know, it's it's already admitting that

1:06:20regulatory complexity is the biggest

1:06:22obstacle. So, it makes it hard for

1:06:25someone as a land owner, right, that you

1:06:28know, one piece of land trying to

1:06:29subdivide and as you already I think

1:06:32you've talked about this definitely

1:06:33within your own working groups, you

1:06:35know, it gets a little more challenging

1:06:36for that to happen. So my ask here is

1:06:41um if the costs

1:06:43well before the plan's adopt adopted if

1:06:47there's a way to publish you know a page

1:06:50or some summary view that brings

1:06:52together all of the chapters that shows

1:06:55all of it added up you know and what is

1:06:57the flood math what is all the math

1:07:00right like you've got the tax math the

1:07:02flood math the permitting math all of

1:07:03that um so that as a resident it might

1:07:06make it a little easier easier for us to

1:07:08see net like how does all of this really

1:07:10translate to us and impact us

1:07:16>> that would be helpful.

1:07:17>> Okay. Um, yeah.

1:07:19>> Thank you.

1:07:21>> That

1:07:28sounds like a good address.

1:07:30>> Uh, anyone from the room

1:07:34like to speak?

1:07:38>> I'm happy to take a second stab, maybe

1:07:40get a little more than

1:07:42>> Oh gosh. I think it's all right. Round

1:07:44two. You get seconds.

1:07:51You know, I don't give me some time here

1:07:54because the problem with three minutes

1:07:56is

1:07:57>> you have to jump all around.

1:08:00>> Try to get you try to get your point

1:08:02across and and there's too many things

1:08:04to talk about that

1:08:08bind together to try to solve these

1:08:11problems. If our mission is to go back

1:08:13to them five headings and try to solve

1:08:16those problems,

1:08:19I'm not sure that the plan

1:08:23actually has the information directs us

1:08:27towards that. Maybe to Amy's some of

1:08:31Amy's concerns.

1:08:33I threw a scenario at the select board

1:08:35here a while back and

1:08:38they probably don't want to hear it

1:08:39again, but I'm going to say it to you

1:08:40guys to think about. I threw a scenario

1:08:43of what if Waterberry builds a hundred

1:08:45houses a year for the next five years.

1:08:48Let's call them medium impre medium

1:08:50priced homes.

1:08:52You can consider $650,000,

1:08:56but that's probably somewhat realistic.

1:09:00The tax revenue all in on those homes

1:09:03would average around $8,000ish dollars.

1:09:06Right? So the town gets $800,000 a year

1:09:11in additional tax revenue, but only 15%

1:09:14of that comes to the town. That's

1:09:17$120,000.

1:09:20Our last town meetings annual increase

1:09:23was 3% which was $150,000.

1:09:28So, at 100 thou 100 homes a year, we're

1:09:30not even keeping up with our

1:09:32year-over-year annual increase in our

1:09:35budget. That's with no additional big

1:09:39work added to it, no big ticket items,

1:09:41no bonds, major projects, anything like

1:09:44that. Just year-over-year annual

1:09:46increase from 2 to 4% averages.

1:09:53100 houses a year is inconceivable. I

1:09:56think 30 to 40 in the town of Waterberry

1:09:58is probably inconceivable. Number one, I

1:10:01don't know where the hell you're going

1:10:02to put them.

1:10:04Land acquisition is a huge part of

1:10:08everybody says that regulations, state

1:10:10regulations are a major cost driver.

1:10:14Being in the industry for 45 years, I

1:10:16don't look at it as a major cost driver.

1:10:19I look at what has happened to land

1:10:21acquisitions that has really moved the

1:10:24needle to the unaffordability side of

1:10:27things. I don't know how you solve that.

1:10:30Um

1:10:32the current

1:10:33>> that's what we need from you though. The

1:10:34current market, the current market

1:10:37has driven it up to that point where

1:10:43people look at it as,

1:10:45you know, perhaps the only way out to

1:10:48survive with all the inflationary issues

1:10:51that have hit us. If somebody sells a

1:10:53piece of property and they want to stay

1:10:56in Vermont, they're going to burn

1:10:57through that in no time flat

1:11:00just in the cost of living here. If they

1:11:02cash out to move somewhere else, then

1:11:05they might do better somewhere else. But

1:11:08as far as the affordability [snorts]

1:11:11thing, no average

1:11:14workingass member of this state or even

1:11:17in this town is going to be able to

1:11:20touch those those types of uh numbers.

1:11:24Um, I wish I had more time to invest

1:11:27because it sounds like all I do is come

1:11:28up and belly ache, but truly I

1:11:33do appreciate everything you guys have

1:11:35done, but I have am so involved on a

1:11:39daily basis, not only working with

1:11:41people trying to get them into a home.

1:11:43Their biggest fear after getting into

1:11:45one, I'm working on a project right now

1:11:47that that I could go into, but it's a

1:11:49young couple. their biggest fear even

1:11:52though

1:11:55their family has helped them out a huge

1:11:58part of the project and I am doing that

1:12:01as well with diesel fuel prices going

1:12:03through the roof. I'm seeing and hearing

1:12:05everybody raising their prices. I refuse

1:12:08to I refuse to I'm willing to take it on

1:12:10the chin because I know the impacts that

1:12:13all of this is having on us as you know

1:12:16citizens.

1:12:18But if he if he hadn't had the family

1:12:21help that he had, he wouldn't been able

1:12:24to do it. And his bigger concern is how

1:12:26the hell am I going to hang on to it

1:12:27after I once I'm in it, you know, I can

1:12:31achieve that part. It's hanging on to it

1:12:33afterwards that's going to be the the

1:12:35major concern.

1:12:37So I guess I look at some of this town

1:12:41plan and I haven't got it into the

1:12:43economic development aspect of it.

1:12:46I keep thinking to myself, how can us as

1:12:49a town come up with some form of

1:12:53economic strategy that,

1:12:57you know, just unloads the revenue into

1:12:59this town without impacting us from a

1:13:04infrastructure perspective, from a de

1:13:07development? Because of those 100 homes

1:13:10that were built, if they were built a

1:13:12year for 5 years,

1:13:14that tax revenue in satisfying the

1:13:18annual budget doesn't consider what

1:13:21impact those 100 homes have on the

1:13:23community as far as additional services.

1:13:28So

1:13:31again, I don't know what the answer is,

1:13:32but

1:13:34this particular scenario

1:13:37has been a

1:13:39effort that's continually been tried and

1:13:41tried and tried and maybe like I said,

1:13:43the value of the dollar back in the day,

1:13:45it perhaps worked then, but it's not

1:13:48anymore.

1:13:50So, we need to change our mindset as to

1:13:52what can we do to skin the cat a

1:13:55different way because this is just

1:13:58leading us down a false path because

1:14:01you're not you're just not going to

1:14:02solve those issues under the way things

1:14:05are.

1:14:05>> So, Chris, I I do have I have a question

1:14:07for you. If there's one thing you'd

1:14:08recommend for us to put in here, what

1:14:10would it be? Because we have a lot of

1:14:12questions too, right? Like we're trying

1:14:14to solve a lot of these issues, make

1:14:15compromise, etc., etc. So, I'm just

1:14:17curious if you have any [clears throat]

1:14:18concrete suggestion that you would add

1:14:20in here.

1:14:21>> I'll ask you this question. Has anybody

1:14:23seen the most recent video that was put

1:14:26out? Um,

1:14:30it featured a few residents of the this

1:14:34area, the Warren Weightsfield area. Paul

1:14:38Hartzhorn was one of the people in this

1:14:42video. My nephew sent me the video. I

1:14:46think it was put out perhaps by the

1:14:48Republican party.

1:14:50[cough and clears throat]

1:14:51Not sure. Didn't specifically say that.

1:14:54But Paul Hartzorn said I had to cash in

1:14:57my

1:14:59health insurance or my u

1:15:03health insurance.

1:15:04>> What's that?

1:15:05>> Life insurance policy after that I've

1:15:07had for over 70 years to pay my property

1:15:09taxes this year. That drove the blood

1:15:13right up through my head.

1:15:14[clears throat] I was so angry that

1:15:17that's what we've come to at this point.

1:15:20Uh I maybe I'll try to send you the

1:15:24video to see it. It's uh it was

1:15:27eyeopening. Um frustrating quite

1:15:29honestly.

1:15:31Uh

1:15:36[clears throat]

1:15:37your question again was can you re

1:15:40rephrase that again?

1:15:42>> Yeah. What's the one thing you would

1:15:43recommend that we put in here to address

1:15:45some of these issues?

1:15:47>> Okay, so that brings me back around to

1:15:49how the reason I lost my train of

1:15:51thought. So, I sent Senator Beck,

1:15:54if I were the governor, okay, this is

1:15:57how drastic I think the problem is.

1:16:01If I were the governor, I'd walk through

1:16:02the door the first day and I would say

1:16:04to all department heads,

1:16:07cut your budget by 25%. Period. I don't

1:16:11care how you do it.

1:16:13Then I would

1:16:15pull rein in all of our spending. Roger

1:16:18CL just talked about two separate grants

1:16:21and I appreciate you for, you know,

1:16:23bringing those forward, but the truth of

1:16:25the matter is

1:16:27things like that. Because of the

1:16:29circumstance we're in, we need to pull a

1:16:31range back hard on all this additional

1:16:33spending. We have the wherewithal within

1:16:35our citizens to take care of these

1:16:38things and and make do for,

1:16:42you know, five-year period to get our

1:16:44feet back under us financially.

1:16:48All grants,

1:16:50uh, nonprofits, certain aspects, and

1:16:54they're unpopular discussions. Nobody

1:16:57wants to hear them.

1:16:59>> Sorry, hold on. One person.

1:17:01>> Yeah. Um but so much of what we are

1:17:06doing that has got us over spent needs

1:17:08we need to focus and when I talked to

1:17:11Amanda Janu she said to me we need to go

1:17:14back to basics and I said well I'm

1:17:17curious to know what your idea of basics

1:17:18and what my idea of basics getting back

1:17:22to bare bones necessities

1:17:25get ourselves our feet back under us

1:17:29bring these costs down from a property

1:17:32property tax perspective from a school

1:17:34tax perspective.

1:17:35Uh, municipal, you know, municipal

1:17:38taxes. Um,

1:17:41and I hate to say this, go but go back

1:17:43to the way us old Vermoners used to

1:17:47live. Um,

1:17:50get our feet back under ourselves, then

1:17:52move forward. I've been pounding the

1:17:55drum on the fact that

1:17:58I believe and I've asked the

1:18:00legislators,

1:18:02when are you going to admit that the

1:18:03state is bankrupt and work backwards

1:18:06from there?

1:18:08because we truly are bankrupt. Because I

1:18:11could list everything from uh our our

1:18:15education facility disrepair to the

1:18:18housing problem to the um infrastructure

1:18:21problem to our health care cost to our

1:18:25uh state um pension program. Uh on and

1:18:29on. There's a there's a list of at least

1:18:3210 big ticket items

1:18:34that we the state can't solve any one of

1:18:38those

1:18:40because they don't have the revenue.

1:18:42>> So Chris, I'm going to

1:18:44>> I appreciate you giving me the time

1:18:45here.

1:18:45>> Yeah. Yeah. I heard what you said reduce

1:18:48spending.

1:18:49>> I Yeah, we will try to strike that

1:18:53compromise. I appreciate the input. I

1:18:54know it's complicated.

1:18:55>> Yeah, it is complicated. Very

1:18:57complicated. And there's so much

1:18:58involved. And I again you guys have are

1:19:00doing a great job. It's just

1:19:04to achieve that mission it's it's going

1:19:07to take

1:19:09>> some different

1:19:10>> some different

1:19:12>> ideas. Thank you.

1:19:14>> Do appreciate that comment on

1:19:17[clears throat] on Zoom.

1:19:18>> We have a hand on Zoom. A Zoom River

1:19:22on Zoom

1:19:24Carrie.

1:19:25>> Okay. Okay.

1:19:30Oh, Chris, thank you so much for all of

1:19:33your work um and thoughts. Um but my my

1:19:39concern with the plan is very broad. Um,

1:19:44I'm looking at the plan as if I was a

1:19:48select board member in five years.

1:19:54How am I going to determine

1:20:00what the plan is and who's responsible?

1:20:05I guess that's where I I get confused

1:20:08within the plan because we have a lot of

1:20:10like could be responsible, could not be

1:20:13responsible. Um it are you

1:20:17hoping to put something out there with

1:20:20responsible parties or are you just

1:20:24floating that around?

1:20:27>> Um I'll take a stab. So, as you noted,

1:20:32um, you know, we have these goals and

1:20:34strategies and then we have sort of our

1:20:37track and progress section. We do note

1:20:39at the bottom of a lot of those goals

1:20:40and strategies, I think everyone, in

1:20:42fact, um, responsible parties. So, we

1:20:46actually do name names. Um, and so if

1:20:48you're on the select board in 5 years,

1:20:50you'd refer back to this and say, "What

1:20:52did the planning commission say about

1:20:53natural resources?" Oh, they they tapped

1:20:56so and so and such and such. and then

1:20:58this other organization. Um, you know,

1:21:02do we have the power to

1:21:05assign and commit them and hold their

1:21:07feet to the fire on this? I don't think

1:21:10we have that power. Um, I think maybe

1:21:14select board could do that. You know, a

1:21:17public vote could do that. Um, consensus

1:21:20could do that, but I'm not sure that we

1:21:23have the authority to say thou shalt on

1:21:26this one. And so that's why we framed it

1:21:30the way that we framed it. Um, you're

1:21:33saying

1:21:35>> you're giving a lot of like NOS's a lot

1:21:37of power here.

1:21:41>> That [clears throat] that's my question.

1:21:43Like so

1:21:45you're not telling you're not giving us

1:21:47a town plan that says somebody's

1:21:49responsible, which there is should be a

1:21:52responsible party like the select board.

1:21:56um to give an okay or um and something

1:22:01to happen. So that that's my question

1:22:03like where where are we we're just kind

1:22:05of saying well this could be the

1:22:07responsible party but you should have

1:22:09one responsible party for any action

1:22:12that has a taxpayer

1:22:16you result

1:22:18>> uh okay so if I'm understanding

1:22:20correctly the wording as we've assigned

1:22:23these various groups and etc uh is not

1:22:27strong enough and instead of saying you

1:22:30know they could

1:22:31We should say they should be. Is that

1:22:34what am I understanding that correctly

1:22:39>> asking me?

1:22:40>> Yes.

1:22:42>> Should be. I don't think there is a

1:22:44should be. I think there should be a

1:22:45definite like this is the responsible

1:22:48party. Um the select board should always

1:22:51have an opportunity to say no or approve

1:22:56any action um within the town.

1:23:01Okay. So, you're saying that we should

1:23:03absolutely say who will do these things,

1:23:07>> correct?

1:23:07>> And that recommendation to the board.

1:23:10>> Yes.

1:23:11>> Because

1:23:12currently, and I will say this, um, we

1:23:16have a lot of NOS's that are driving our

1:23:18town plan. Um, and

1:23:24we have a lot of things that are

1:23:25happening in our town that that should

1:23:27not necessarily that are not following

1:23:30our town governance

1:23:32and we should be putting more rules back

1:23:36into place to ensure that the taxpayers

1:23:41understand what's happening.

1:23:45If if you can understand that and maybe

1:23:47I'm not being clear, but that's fine.

1:23:50>> I understand what you're saying.

1:23:52>> Okay. Thank you,

1:23:54>> Carrie. Actually, I think it would be

1:23:56helpful for

1:23:59you to clarify what you mean by the town

1:24:01plan was like driven by NOS's cuz I

1:24:04don't think our process was NGO

1:24:08centered. It was very much centered

1:24:09around kind of public input. So are

1:24:12there areas within the the plan itself

1:24:15that you feel like are NGO center

1:24:17centered or is it just the naming of

1:24:19NOS's in the plan? Could you spec

1:24:22clarify?

1:24:23I do I think the town plan has been

1:24:27centered around a lot of

1:24:32um Discover Waterberry and and please

1:24:35take this, you know, I I adore Discover

1:24:38Waterberry, Revitalizing Waterberry. I

1:24:41think they've done a lot of amazing

1:24:43things for our community. Um and I think

1:24:46Roger has as well. Um, however, I think

1:24:50that they have a lot of leeway

1:24:52in

1:24:54making town plans

1:24:57um and putting their their initiatives

1:25:02and their goals forward without the town

1:25:07being able to understand what's

1:25:09happening and that being approved. So, I

1:25:12I think there's a process level that is

1:25:15missing and I think that's very clear

1:25:18throughout our town plan right now.

1:25:25>> Okay. Do you have further questions?

1:25:27Sorry.

1:25:27>> Uh, no. I think that's clear.

1:25:28>> But I I do have a question for you then,

1:25:30Carrie. And if there are parts of this

1:25:32plan where we've got a goal or a

1:25:34strategy that you feel [clears throat]

1:25:36regardless of what entity has proposed

1:25:39it, I don't want to put names on it.

1:25:42Isn't this the process where you say you

1:25:44think that's an inappropriate strategy

1:25:45and it shouldn't be in the plan? Isn't

1:25:47Isn't that what we're doing?

1:25:49>> This is the this is the time.

1:25:51>> No, I I I think the plan is great, but I

1:25:54don't think you should be naming one

1:25:55specific NGO. I I think it should be all

1:25:59of them. Instead of saying Discover

1:26:01Waterberry and everything else, it

1:26:04should be all of them. Like

1:26:08Discover Waterberry is amazing and we do

1:26:10all of these things with them. The town

1:26:13does all of these things with them,

1:26:14right? But if we're going to concentrate

1:26:18on Discover Waterberry, what happens if

1:26:20they dissolve?

1:26:22We're looking at a town plan

1:26:26that will outlast them

1:26:29potentially,

1:26:31right? We're looking at a future. I I

1:26:34hope they will last forever, but this is

1:26:36our town, not them. And so my my request

1:26:42is that

1:26:44everything that we do and put into the

1:26:46town plan is not just about Discover

1:26:49Waterberry.

1:26:51It's about any art centered,

1:26:55any community organization that we

1:26:57support as a town. Remember that please.

1:27:01We support them as a town as much as

1:27:04they support us. But what happens if

1:27:07something falls, right? We still are a

1:27:10town. And that's what I would like to be

1:27:14implemented in our town process. Um,

1:27:17it's something I've learned throughout

1:27:19my business experience is that you never

1:27:21put like a name on someone's email,

1:27:24right? It's an info at something like as

1:27:27a town, we should always be doing that.

1:27:33>> Thank you.

1:27:33>> Thank you for uh thank you for engaging

1:27:36>> car. I I think an ask as planning

1:27:38commission to help that process would

1:27:40be, you know, specific feedback within

1:27:42the planet. We will do our best to

1:27:44identify if our word choice I think kind

1:27:47of crosses a line where but you know if

1:27:50you have noted areas within the plan you

1:27:52know specific strategies, goals,

1:27:55reference documents that you feel like

1:27:58were attributing uh you know agency or

1:28:02resource or power to an organization

1:28:04that certainly wasn't the intent. So

1:28:06just that kind of level of specificity

1:28:08in the feedback I think will allow us to

1:28:10uh address your comment more

1:28:12effectively. So

1:28:13>> great. Thank you very much.

1:28:15>> Thank you.

1:28:16>> Thanks.

1:28:16>> Is there anyone in the public that

1:28:19>> wants to come up again?

1:28:22>> Am I too late?

1:28:24>> Not at all.

1:28:25>> Yeah, you got time.

1:28:26>> We got 25 more minutes,

1:28:29>> but only in three minute chunks.

1:28:30[laughter]

1:28:33>> Sorry. Right.

1:28:34super hard on that so far. All right.

1:28:36Sorry. Continue.

1:28:37>> Good evening, Chair Allen and members of

1:28:39the planning commission. My name is

1:28:41Myers Moral. I'm the owner of Radio

1:28:43Vermont, anchored by our flagship

1:28:45station, WDEV. I'm here with my

1:28:47co-owner, Caroline Mlan, in the

1:28:49audience. um my business partner. For 94

1:28:54years, Radio Vermont has proudly served

1:28:56Waterberry and the central and northern

1:28:57Vermont communities, broadcasting

1:28:59emergency flood alerts, local sports and

1:29:02community forums. Uh WDEV and itself

1:29:06holds a daily town hall across the state

1:29:09and we serve over 560,000 Vermoners out

1:29:12of 630,000

1:29:13Vermonters in the state and we feel that

1:29:15it's a very important public as well as

1:29:18moral imperative to to maintain that

1:29:21type of daily dialogue. Preserving this

1:29:24independent local voice for the future,

1:29:25however, requires prudent stewardship of

1:29:27our assets, including our 44 acre parcel

1:29:30at 681 Bushell Road. We understand chair

1:29:34that tonight uh we're talking about

1:29:36strategy really planning and that zoning

1:29:39or tactics but um if we're too

1:29:42particular forgive us but we do want to

1:29:44address three particular areas. Um

1:29:48we're advocating sensible

1:29:50conservationoriented flexibility in the

1:29:512026 town plan update that directly

1:29:54advances Waterbury's housing and

1:29:56environmental goals. We've submitted

1:29:58formal correspondence proposing specific

1:30:00text insertions across three areas.

1:30:02First, under land use goal one, we urge

1:30:04the commission to establish an incentive

1:30:06based workforce housing density bylaw

1:30:09for parcels of 40 acres or more in the

1:30:10phase 2 bylaws. Waterbury needs 36

1:30:13housing units a year, as we've heard,

1:30:14and affordable units are lagging on

1:30:16large tracks outside the village

1:30:18standard 5 acres. Zoning creates

1:30:19uncoordinated sprawl.

1:30:22We propose substantial density bonuses

1:30:24for master plan conservation

1:30:25developments that permanently protect at

1:30:27least 60% of the land in open space or

1:30:30current use paired with an additional

1:30:3143% affordable or workforce housing

1:30:34commitment provided on or offsite in

1:30:36village growth areas to achieve compact

1:30:39footprints and protect hillsides. This

1:30:40framework should also authorize flexible

1:30:43heights up to four stories for

1:30:44structures banked to the topography

1:30:46below the ridgeeline canopy.

1:30:48contextsensitive grading, shared

1:30:49decentralized wa wastewater systems if

1:30:51needed, and private residence amenities

1:30:54by right. Second, under housing goal

1:30:56three, we request flexible

1:30:57infrastructure pathways to extend

1:30:59missing middle clustered housing to

1:31:00large rural parcels. We strongly support

1:31:03partnering with the town through the

1:31:04state chip program or tiff to extend

1:31:07municipal water and sewer to qualifying

1:31:09conservation developments with private

1:31:11developers paying a fair proportional

1:31:13share of booster pumps and line

1:31:14extensions. However, if a municipal

1:31:16extension proves infeasible or cost

1:31:18prohibitive, land owners should have the

1:31:20regulatory flexibility to provide uh

1:31:22their own solutions. Phase 2 should

1:31:25explicitly allow advanced state approved

1:31:28shared decentralized water and

1:31:29wastewater systems so missing middle

1:31:31clusters can proceed without burdening

1:31:34municipal utilities. Third, under

1:31:36transportation goal six, strategy 6.2,

1:31:39we ask the town to establish clear

1:31:41mitigation pathways for the Bushell Road

1:31:43and Route 100 intersection. The draft

1:31:45plan designates this as a high crash

1:31:47location without active town Vermont

1:31:50trans collaboration and transparent fair

1:31:53share impact fees. This designation

1:31:55creates an unintended moratorium on any

1:31:57future land use proposal under act 250.

1:32:01These three updates unlock private

1:32:03investment and state housing resources

1:32:05while guaranteeing that 60% of our

1:32:07pristine hill sites remain permanently

1:32:09protected. Thank you for your service to

1:32:11Waterberry and I respectfully request

1:32:13that our formal letter which I presented

1:32:15to Monica be entered into the permit

1:32:17hearing record.

1:32:20>> Thank you.

1:32:21>> Thank you

1:32:23[clears throat]

1:32:26on

1:32:33>> my name is Alyssa Johnson. I live in

1:32:35Waterberry. Sorry for the bad office uh

1:32:37backlighting. Um, I wanted to start by

1:32:40thanking the planning commissioners and

1:32:42the town staff for all of the work on

1:32:43this. I just looked on the website and

1:32:46just in terms of scale for folks who

1:32:48haven't been following along, it looks

1:32:50like this is your 20th meeting of just

1:32:522026. Those usually run about two hours,

1:32:55maybe three hours I often hear and

1:32:58that's before any of you planning

1:32:59commissioners were editing feedback

1:33:01survey or designing ARGIS data maps. and

1:33:04I just want the public to know how much

1:33:06work you all put into this and say thank

1:33:08you. Um, second piece was a question if

1:33:12there was a preferred deadline for

1:33:13completing the online form to be most

1:33:15useful to you all besides ASAP.

1:33:19>> Um, I am going to close the online form

1:33:23by the end of this week Friday.

1:33:26>> Thank you very much. Um, and then my one

1:33:28comment would be well I'll do a full

1:33:30review before Friday. Um, I'm struck and

1:33:34I've heard it in some of the comments

1:33:35tonight about where in this plan there's

1:33:38a reflection on the capacity to do all

1:33:41of the things outlined here. I think

1:33:43it's been acknowledged that there's a

1:33:45really nice mix of municipal staffing

1:33:48and partnerships of nonprofit

1:33:50organizations and other community

1:33:52partners. Um, I will say as someone

1:33:54who's been a former select board member

1:33:56and involved in the what municipal

1:33:58government looks like daytoday, um, and

1:34:01knowing it might be hard for those folks

1:34:03to speak about, but um, the who's doing

1:34:05the work and what resources are there to

1:34:07support them. I don't know where it

1:34:10should land. I don't know if it's part

1:34:11of, you know, municipal government goal

1:34:13one, but I'm seeing more and more about

1:34:16really intensive communication, about

1:34:18tracking, about complex coordination

1:34:21between multiple entities. I heard

1:34:23tonight about desires for reporting

1:34:25back. Um and so in addition to the

1:34:28question about who's doing what, I just

1:34:30wonder um where the prioritization is

1:34:34and so if there should be a strategy

1:34:35around assessing the capacity whether it

1:34:38comes directly from the municipality or

1:34:40elsewhere. Um and following on this is

1:34:43the total faux paw but again hearing

1:34:45about who's responsible for this. Again

1:34:47recognizing maybe that's not for the

1:34:49planning commission to reckon with, but

1:34:51maybe there's a couple sentence that

1:34:53could be added around this is going to

1:34:55be reviewed annually by the select board

1:34:57to inform their planning or something

1:34:59like that if that's the intent of other

1:35:02bodies in the town. But thank you all

1:35:03for your welcomes.

1:35:05>> Thank you.

1:35:06>> Thanks.

1:35:11Um,

1:35:13anyone else from the room who hasn't

1:35:16spoken or maybe wants a

1:35:19second round?

1:35:24>> I'll do the second round.

1:35:27>> All right. Yeah.

1:35:30>> Um, okay. So, obviously, you know, I'm

1:35:34in the natural resources chapter. Uh,

1:35:36and I was just looking at the 2018 plan

1:35:40and that one has actually several action

1:35:43items associated with um roadl

1:35:46contamination

1:35:48>> with which

1:35:48>> roadl contamination. Okay.

1:35:51>> And so just um this year in the

1:35:54legislative session S218

1:35:57was about uh uh road salt management to

1:36:01prevent contamination and it got vetoed

1:36:03by our governor. And so I guess my

1:36:06question is maybe a little bit to what

1:36:09Alyssa just said,

1:36:11tracking what happened. Do did we do

1:36:14something between 2018

1:36:17to sort of understand what actions we

1:36:20did do and and did we finish it to the

1:36:24point where we don't need to mention it

1:36:26at all in the new plan?

1:36:29Because we're not going to get much help

1:36:31because the the bill was vetoed. So it

1:36:34sort of has to be a little bit at the

1:36:36municipal level if you want to think

1:36:38about road contamination.

1:36:41>> Um

1:36:41>> do you think we should

1:36:43>> I do think we should Yes, I do. I do

1:36:46think we should think about it. Um and

1:36:49and mostly because you know we do have

1:36:53uh people on private wells along sort of

1:36:55the bigger uh roadways our big R 100

1:37:00corridor and there's you know road salt

1:37:03management by the state that we might

1:37:05not be able to say much about but we can

1:37:07at least uh you know [clears throat]

1:37:09manage what we as a town apply. And

1:37:12there's something in here about, you

1:37:14know, um, salt sheds and and I just

1:37:18don't actually know much about what

1:37:19we're doing in Waterberry. Um, so it's

1:37:21also just maybe an educational moment

1:37:24for myself in terms of did did we manage

1:37:27it and now it's not really a thing

1:37:29anymore.

1:37:30>> That might be a a question for Bill

1:37:32Woodruff.

1:37:34>> Yeah. Yeah, totally.

1:37:35>> Because he's on he's on that detail.

1:37:38>> Yeah.

1:37:39>> Um,

1:37:40>> yeah, that's a good point. Um, and and

1:37:43I'm I'm not saying it needs to be in

1:37:44there. I guess it was just more a

1:37:46question because I saw it mentioned many

1:37:48times in the 2018 plan. Um, and the

1:37:51other thing is again, um, in the

1:37:54legislative s session, we had H727,

1:37:58the big data center bill that also got

1:38:01vetoed by our governor after, um,

1:38:04bipartisan support.

1:38:06And

1:38:08um

1:38:10so there's been a lot of conversations

1:38:12across Vermont that sort of the

1:38:14municipalities need to sort of take

1:38:16local action to prevent

1:38:21the ability of data centers to come in

1:38:23and and and sort of utilize those

1:38:26resources. And I'm not saying that

1:38:28>> we put them in the Randle Field.

1:38:30>> Yes.

1:38:33And I'm not saying that that's going to

1:38:34happen, but in the 2018 plan again,

1:38:37there's actually a mentioning about

1:38:39extraction of groundwater for commercial

1:38:41purposes that also again is not in the

1:38:43new one. And so just having a mention in

1:38:47it gives us the ability to think about

1:38:50it in terms of the zoning bylaws if we

1:38:53wanted to. So removing it completely

1:38:56makes that harder for us to pursue in

1:38:59the next phase of of the zoning bylaw

1:39:02process if we wanted to think about

1:39:05that.

1:39:08>> Thank you.

1:39:09>> Thank you.

1:39:09>> Sila. Thank you.

1:39:11>> Uh Sila knows that road salt

1:39:13contamination is near and dear to my

1:39:14heart. [laughter]

1:39:16>> Now I'm embarrassed to admit that uh we

1:39:19didn't include it in 2026. So thank you

1:39:22for bringing that up. Um, great

1:39:24comments.

1:39:26>> All right, second time around. Right on.

1:39:29>> All right. Um, I hear when you guys ask,

1:39:33what are the solutions? And I'm I'm a

1:39:36mediator. I, you know, I'm a I'm a

1:39:38scapegoat kid, middle child, black

1:39:41sheep, always looking for like the calm.

1:39:44I interviewed for Beth's job when nobody

1:39:47was here and everything was scrambling

1:39:50and you know it it like I I just want to

1:39:52help. So when you say solutions I I want

1:39:56you all to really consider and I have a

1:39:57business card. I started a new company.

1:40:00Um I'm not sure where it's going because

1:40:02I hate AI like everybody else. Um

1:40:05however it is a necessary entity that is

1:40:07capsizing our brains like Google has um

1:40:10previously. Uh so I just implore you all

1:40:13to just think of me as a solutionist as

1:40:17far as bringing in new money. We need

1:40:20new money and we need money either

1:40:22internationally or we need money from

1:40:25outside the state rather than taxing

1:40:27everyone or creating these brilliant

1:40:29ideas and then being just burdened by

1:40:34how to pay for it. And I'm a person

1:40:36where I didn't have kids on purpose. Uh

1:40:392 years after 9/11, I moved here. Um but

1:40:42I made a conscious decision not to have

1:40:43children. I'm 52. I love practicing, but

1:40:47I do not have any children to this day

1:40:49that I know of. Um and so I'm imploring

1:40:52you all uh and I go to city council and

1:40:55I also go to schoolboard meetings and I

1:40:57have no children. All right? And um so

1:40:59I'm imploring you all to just look at

1:41:02this through an opportunity of change

1:41:05and um also you know the ability to not

1:41:10necessarily see what's out there um yet

1:41:13because tech is budding in a way where

1:41:16none of us understand it and it is fire

1:41:20meeting the limbic brain um times a

1:41:23thousand. Uh, so here's my card. Craft

1:41:26question works. Carlton Anderson,

1:41:29Veracity Quest,

1:41:31just

1:41:32>> Thank you.

1:41:33>> Thank you, y'all.

1:41:34>> Appreciate it. All right.

1:41:34>> I believe there are how many open

1:41:36positions on various boards and

1:41:38commissions in town?

1:41:39>> I know at this point I I need a job. All

1:41:41right.

1:41:43[laughter]

1:41:44>> And also, if you don't if you want to

1:41:46give your time away for free,

1:41:48>> we have plenty of opportunities for

1:41:50that. Um, I love it. It's It's top top

1:41:55hobby. [laughter]

1:41:56Um All right.

1:41:58>> Smile and die. I'm on the Smile and

1:41:59>> Dales

1:42:01I bring in.

1:42:02>> All right. Do we have anyone online at

1:42:04the moment?

1:42:08>> Okay. Uh anyone in the room who has not

1:42:10spoken yet or who would like another

1:42:12round?

1:42:14No, no, no.

1:42:17>> Dina, I would just like to say that u

1:42:23you got to come to the chair.

1:42:25>> Yeah, it was just a quick comment. From

1:42:27what I understand, I think the state act

1:42:30250 is actually working on some new

1:42:33legislation for act 250

1:42:36rules when it comes to force

1:42:37fragmentation.

1:42:39I think they're trying to

1:42:42keep that a little more under control.

1:42:45Uh

1:42:46I just that's that's all I wanted to

1:42:48throw in there. Um because there's been

1:42:50a lot of comments about, you know,

1:42:52critical habitat and our land open

1:42:55landscape. Um, and I think over time as

1:43:00we continue to develop the town, if in

1:43:03fact that is what happens, we're stymied

1:43:06right now because of the cost of

1:43:08everything. But as time goes on, I think

1:43:11those critical areas

1:43:14are open a fields, forest sections are

1:43:18all going to be under more pressure

1:43:21to want to shove into those areas. So,

1:43:25you know, making some some type of a

1:43:28firm plan to really protect those areas,

1:43:30I think, is very important.

1:43:35>> Thank you.

1:43:42[clears throat]

1:43:44>> Anyone online? Anyone in the room?

1:43:47>> No one online.

1:43:49Yeah, I like I like to switch back

1:43:53covering [snorts] bases.

1:43:57>> Um, if no one else in the room wants to

1:43:59speak,

1:44:01we can sit here awkwardly for 10

1:44:03minutes. [laughter]

1:44:06>> We've [clears throat] never ended a

1:44:07meeting 10 minutes early before.

1:44:10>> It's like one meeting

1:44:13>> a meeting. I do I do want to give those

1:44:16who are in the room genuinely if you

1:44:18want to come up and speak. We do have

1:44:20another 10 minutes aotted. Um so feel

1:44:24free or

1:44:25>> we also if you didn't see have paper on

1:44:28the table here if you would prefer to

1:44:30submit a written a handwritten comment

1:44:32or there is the online form as well.

1:44:34>> Yeah.

1:44:34>> Make it legible.

1:44:37>> Yeah. Well, if it's on the online form,

1:44:41>> we have a Carrie online. Carrie

1:44:43McMillan.

1:44:45>> Hi. Can you hear me?

1:44:47>> Yes.

1:44:48>> Great. I just wanted to say thank you.

1:44:52>> Thanks, Gary. I appreciate that.

1:44:54>> Um,

1:44:57>> no, really like this is like the hardest

1:44:59thing that you guys will ever do. Um,

1:45:02you're

1:45:04making choices and um land decisions and

1:45:08policy choices for our entire town. So,

1:45:13as much as I push and I question,

1:45:17um, I I want to say thank you and I

1:45:20appreciate everything that you guys do.

1:45:22So,

1:45:23>> thanks, Carrie. And, um, just a reminder

1:45:26that we're next tackling bylaws. No,

1:45:28[laughter]

1:45:29not

1:45:31>> I'll be there.

1:45:34But but I do like if you have like 10

1:45:37minutes to kill, [laughter]

1:45:39I mean I can say thank you. Um

1:45:43>> you you can you can nominate me for the

1:45:46next position on the planning commission

1:45:48if you'd like. Um but you know, I I

1:45:51really do appreciate everything that

1:45:53you're doing. Um, and uh, yeah, it it's

1:45:56hard and I I appreciate it all. So,

1:46:00thank you and I will continue to push

1:46:02you. So, I hope you appreciate that.

1:46:07>> Yes, it is appreciated. It's part of the

1:46:09process and we do we need that. So,

1:46:13>> um, heard

1:46:16>> um,

1:46:17>> I found your appreciation. How did that

1:46:20>> you going to come up and talk to us?

1:46:21>> I am.

1:46:22>> All right. briefly.

1:46:24>> Great. Okay, we do have someone in the

1:46:26room, so take it away.

1:46:29>> Good night.

1:46:30>> Good night.

1:46:33>> Yes. And uh you know, really most of my

1:46:36comments were submitted through the

1:46:38recreation committee that I participate

1:46:40on. Um I want to reiterate also my

1:46:44sincere thanks to this group. I

1:46:46appreciated Alyssa's math that she did

1:46:48with the hours. I don't know. We're

1:46:50getting up to 100 hours maybe just on

1:46:52what you've invested in this. So,

1:46:55gratitude for that, for

1:46:58the visually pleasing, easy to navigate

1:47:00information,

1:47:02um for the opportunities I think that

1:47:05have been afforded to people to provide

1:47:07input, um the signs, the radio ads. Um,

1:47:14I think you've just it's it's set a

1:47:16standard that I I hope others might

1:47:19replicate in terms of encouraging,

1:47:21inviting, making it possible to give

1:47:24public input. Um, as you wrap up here

1:47:27tonight, what I wanted to encourage

1:47:32and hope to see is um, on front porch

1:47:36forum and on the website really easy for

1:47:40people to find some of the things you

1:47:42talked about at different points that

1:47:45your next step is incorporating

1:47:47feedback.

1:47:49Then you send a draft to the select

1:47:51board. then they have 180 days in which

1:47:54to hold two hearings

1:47:58and that those hearings, if I'm

1:48:00understanding correctly, could result in

1:48:03additional changes, revisions to the

1:48:05plan. I don't know if that goes back to

1:48:07you or that's the select board to do,

1:48:08but I'd be curious to see just to

1:48:11understand that transparently.

1:48:14Um, there was one other thing and

1:48:23Oh, Friday. It wasn't clear to me

1:48:25either. I I had heard from one person

1:48:28that it was going to be midnight tonight

1:48:30that the comments were going to be that

1:48:32that you would be able to submit, but

1:48:34now it's the end of the week.

1:48:35>> We We extended it. We got some calls for

1:48:38extension. So,

1:48:39>> yeah, that's great. I And maybe I missed

1:48:41it. Maybe it was on the the site, but I

1:48:44looked for what that deadline was. So

1:48:46hearing a lot of people going I'm not

1:48:48done with you know the chapters. Um I

1:48:51think it's great for people to have a

1:48:52few more days and Dana I appreciate you

1:48:54you know they'll post some front porch

1:48:55form too just to say

1:48:58folks here here's where we are. So if

1:49:00you can do a few more of those hopefully

1:49:02people will give you some additional

1:49:03input but um

1:49:05>> really grateful for everything. Hope

1:49:08that wasn't over three minutes.

1:49:10>> I think you're within time. [laughter]

1:49:12>> Thank you.

1:49:13>> Still got three seconds. Come on person.

1:49:27>> Uh, anyone else?

1:49:32>> Nope. I just want to say thanks.

1:49:35>> Thank you.

1:49:36>> Thank you.

1:49:37>> Um, all right. It's 7:58. I feel like

1:49:41we've uh captured the comments. So

1:49:46with that, I'll close the hearing.

1:49:49>> Okay.

1:49:50>> I move to close the hearing.

1:49:51>> Great.

1:49:52>> I second.

1:49:54>> Seconded. Um all those in favor of

1:49:56closing the hearing say I.

1:49:58>> I.

1:49:58>> I

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