2026-09-22 - City Life Committee

07:13>> GOOD AFTERNOON. IT IS 2:02

07:16P.M. ON TUESDAY, SEPTEMBER 22ND.

07:18I AM CALLING TO ORDER TODAY'S

07:21CITY LIFE COMMITTEE. WENDY, CAN

07:23YOU PLEASE CALL THE ROLL?

07:28>> GOOD AFTERNOON. MORILLO HERE.

07:31>> ZIMMERMAN. HERE. AVALOS

07:34PRESENT.

07:36>> RYAN HERE.

07:37>> PIRTLE-GUINEY HERE. AND

07:39KEVIN, COULD YOU PLEASE READ US

07:40OUR STATEMENT OF CONDUCT?

07:43>> WELCOME TO THE MEETING OF

07:44THE CITY LIFE COMMITTEE. TO

07:45TESTIFY BEFORE THIS COMMITTEE

07:47IN PERSON OR VIRTUALLY. YOU

07:48MUST SIGN UP IN ADVANCE ON THE

07:50COMMITTEE AGENDA AT

07:58WWW.PORTLAND.GOV/COUNCILOR/AGENE

07:59OR BY CALLING 311. INFORMATION

08:02ON ENGAGING WITH THE COMMITTEE

08:03CAN BE FOUND AT THIS LINK.

08:05REGISTRATION FOR VIRTUAL

08:06TESTIMONY CLOSES ONE HOUR PRIOR

08:08TO THE MEETING IN PERSON.

08:09TESTIFIERS MUST SIGN UP BEFORE

08:11THE AGENDA ITEM IS HEARD. IF

08:12PUBLIC TESTIMONY WILL BE TAKEN

08:14ON AN ITEM, INDIVIDUALS MAY

08:15TESTIFY FOR THREE MINUTES

08:17UNLESS THE CHAIR STATES

08:18OTHERWISE, YOUR MICROPHONE WILL

08:20BE MUTED. WHEN YOUR TIME IS

08:21OVER, THE CHAIR PRESERVES ORDER.

08:24DISRUPTIVE CONDUCT SUCH AS

08:25SHOUTING. REFUSING TO CONCLUDE

08:26YOUR TESTIMONY WHEN YOUR TIME

08:28IS UP OR INTERRUPTING OTHERS

08:29TESTIMONY OR COMMITTEE

08:30DELIBERATIONS WILL NOT BE

08:32ALLOWED. IF YOU CAUSE A

08:33DISRUPTION, A WARNING WILL BE

08:35GIVEN. FURTHER DISRUPTION WILL

08:36RESULT IN EJECTION FROM THE

08:38MEETING. ANYONE WHO FAILS TO

08:39LEAVE ONCE EJECTED IS SUBJECT

08:41TO ARREST FOR TRESPASS.

08:43ADDITIONALLY, THE COMMITTEE MAY

08:44TAKE A SHORT RECESS AND

08:46RECONVENE VIRTUALLY. YOUR

08:47TESTIMONY SHOULD ADDRESS THE

08:48MATTER BEING CONSIDERED WHEN

08:50TESTIFYING. ONE. STATE YOUR

08:51NAME FOR THE RECORD. IF YOU ARE

08:53A LOBBYIST, IDENTIFY THE

08:54ORGANIZATION YOU REPRESENT AND.

08:55TWO VIRTUAL TESTIFIERS SHOULD

08:57UNMUTE THEMSELVES WHEN THE

08:59CLERK CALLS YOUR NAME. THANK

09:00YOU.

09:02>> THANK YOU VERY MUCH,

09:03COLLEAGUES. AT OUR LAST MEETING,

09:05WE GOT TO DIVE DEEP ON A BIG

09:08TOPIC THAT WE HOPE WILL LEAD TO

09:10SOME LEGISLATION DOWN THE ROAD.

09:12NEXT MEETING, WE WILL DIVE DEEP

09:14ON A DIFFERENT TOPIC THROUGH

09:16OUR ADVANCED PORTLAND

09:17PRESENTATION, WE'LL GET TO LOOK

09:18AT ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT AND

09:19THEN WORK ON A COUPLE OF

09:22ORDINANCES BROUGHT FORTH BY THE

09:23ADMINISTRATION. BUT TODAY, WE

09:24GET TO DO SOME WORK ON ITEMS

09:26BROUGHT FORWARD BY OUR OWN

09:28COLLEAGUES. SO WE HAVE THREE

09:29MAIN ITEMS ON THE AGENDA TODAY

09:31THAT WE'LL BE HEARING TO BE

09:32BROUGHT BY COUNCILOR ZIMMERMAN

09:33AND ONE FROM COUNCILOR NOVICK.

09:36BEFORE WE DIVE IN, THOUGH, I

09:37THINK WE HAVE TO APPROVE SOME

09:38MINUTES. SO, WENDY, COULD YOU

09:39PLEASE CALL THE FIRST ITEM ON

09:41THE AGENDA?

09:44>> CERTAINLY. ITEM NUMBER ONE,

09:45CITY LIFE COMMITTEE MEETING

09:47MINUTES FOR JULY 14TH, JULY

09:4928TH AND AUGUST 11TH, 2026.

09:55>> AND COLLEAGUES, IS THERE ANY

09:57OPPOSITION TO THE MINUTES? IF

09:58NOT, I BELIEVE WE CAN APPROVE

09:59THEM BY UNANIMOUS CONSENT.

10:03SEEING NONE. OKAY. MINUTES

10:07APPROVED. AND THAT MOVES US TO

10:12OUR PUBLIC INPUT. WENDY, COULD

10:13YOU PLEASE CALL THE NEXT ITEM

10:15ON THE AGENDA?

10:17>> ITEM NUMBER TWO, DOCUMENT

10:19NUMBER 2026-338. PUBLIC INPUT

10:22ON CITY LIFE COMMITTEE TOPICS.

10:23WE HAVE ONE PERSON SIGNED UP TO

10:26TESTIFY. CALEB L COME ON UP.

10:32>> WELCOME.

10:36>> AND MY APOLOGIES, JUST WE'RE

10:38HAVING SOME TROUBLE WITH THE

10:39TIMER. SO YOU YOU'LL SEE THE

10:42TIMER ON THE SCREEN, BUT YOU

10:43WILL NOT GET THE 32ND WARNING

10:45THAT WE NORMALLY DO.

10:46>> WELL, I TIMED THIS THING, SO

10:47IT SHOULD COME IN AROUND 255

10:49ISH, HOPEFULLY.

10:51>> PERFECT.

10:52>> GREETINGS, BELOVED COMMITTEE

10:53MEMBERS. I AM CALEB IMHOTEP L

10:56MY DISTRICT IS DOMICILED FOR.

10:58AND WHEN I LAST SPOKE BEFORE

11:00YOU, I EXPRESSED MY DEDICATION

11:03TO PROJECT ZERO. IT'S MORE THAN

11:05JUST A DEDICATION. IT IS A WILL.

11:09BY 2050, PORTLAND WILL BE A

11:11ZERO CARBON EMISSION CITY. THE

11:14WRITTEN TESTIMONY THAT I

11:15SUBMITTED TWO WEEKS AGO. IT HAD

11:17A COUPLE OF VISUAL BLURBS IN IT.

11:19IT'S THE FIRST TIME I USED

11:20POWERPOINT IN A WHILE I WAS A

11:22LITTLE RUSTY. I RESUBMITTED IT

11:25RECENTLY, AND HOPEFULLY IT'S A

11:26LITTLE BIT MORE COMPREHENSIBLE

11:27AND ABLE TO BE COMPREHENDED. I

11:31AM THAT I AM A SOLUTION

11:34ORIENTED BEING THAT BELIEVES

11:35THAT ECONOMY AND ECOLOGY ARE

11:38NOT JUST SYNONYMOUS, THEY ARE

11:40ONE IN THE SAME. PORTLAND'S

11:43ECONOMY IS SUFFERING. THAT IS

11:45OBVIOUS. DATA CENTERS RUIN

11:48ECOLOGY. THAT TOO, IS OBVIOUS.

11:54GIVEN THE PREVIOUS STATEMENTS.

11:55IT IS ONLY LOGICAL TO STATE

11:57THAT THERE IS NO ECONOMICAL

11:59BENEFIT TO A DATA CENTER IF IT

12:01DOES NOT SUPPORT THE LOCAL

12:04ECOLOGY. BUT I AM NOT HERE TO

12:06DISCUSS THE CONTROVERSY OF THE

12:07DATA CENTERS. I AM HERE BECAUSE

12:09MOTHER EARTH BECKONS ME TO

12:10ACTION. IF I DO NOT ACT, IF I

12:14SIT IDLY BY AND LET THINGS

12:17HAPPEN, WHO KNOWS WHAT SORT OF

12:19ECOLOGICAL TRAVESTIES WILL

12:21BEFALL THIS AREA OR HERE?

12:26EXCUSE ME, EXCUSE ME. LOST MY

12:31PLACE THERE. BUT THAT'S NOT A

12:34SUSTAINABLE WAY OF THINKING.

12:36IT'S NOT THE RIGHT WAY OF BEING.

12:39I AM THE PROMOTER OF A

12:40PROGRESSIVE PORTLAND. I HAVE A

12:42MINOR BACKGROUND IN LAW, THOUGH.

12:44I HAVE PASSED NO BAR EXAM AND

12:45I'M NO LICENSED ATTORNEY. I DO

12:47REALIZE THAT THERE ARE BARRIERS

12:48TO WHAT CAN AND CAN'T BE DONE.

12:50ACCORDING TO OREGON REVISED

12:51STATUTES AND STATE ORDINANCE

12:52AND MUNICIPAL POLICY. BUT

12:54MOTHER EARTH DOES NOT, WILL NOT,

12:57AND IS NOT IN IN ANY SORT OF

13:01MANNER SUPPOSED TO HAVE TO BEND

13:03HER WILL TO THOSE THINGS. WHEN

13:05THINGS GET TOO HECTIC, MOTHER

13:07EARTH CLEANSES AND THEN STARTS

13:09ALL OVER AGAIN. HUMANITY CANNOT

13:11AFFORD THIS. PORTLAND WILL NOT

13:14EXPERIENCE THIS. I HAVE

13:15SUBMITTED ANOTHER DOCUMENT FOR

13:16THE COMMITTEE'S REVIEW. IF IT'S

13:18AGREEABLE, MAYBE THIS DOCUMENT

13:19CAN BE PRESENTED TO MULTNOMAH

13:22COUNTY FOR A COUNTY WIDE OR

13:23EVEN A STATEWIDE PROJECT ZERO.

13:26WE SIT ON A PRECIPICE. WE ARE

13:29POWERFUL ENOUGH TO DICTATE

13:30WHETHER WE FALL OFF THAT CLIFF,

13:32OR WHETHER WE SPREAD OUR WINGS

13:33AND FLY LIKE THE CELESTIAL

13:35BEINGS THAT WE ARE. THAT CHOICE

13:38IS YOURS. THAT CHOICE IS MINE.

13:40THAT CHOICE IS PORTLAND'S, THAT

13:43CHOICE IS OREGON'S. THE POWER

13:45IS YOURS. IT RESIDES IN YOUR

13:49HANDS. WIELD IT WISELY AND KNOW

13:52WITHOUT AN IOTA OF IF THAT I

13:55LOVE YOU ALL UNCONDITIONALLY.

13:58THANK YOU.

14:00>> THANK YOU FOR BEING HERE AND

14:01FOR THE DOCUMENTS.

14:04>> THAT CONCLUDES PUBLIC INPUT.

14:07>> THANK YOU. WENDY, COULD YOU

14:09OPEN THE NEXT TWO ITEMS? ITEMS

14:12TWO AND THREE. NO. ITEMS THREE

14:15AND FOUR, I BELIEVE. YES.

14:17>> THANK YOU. ITEMS THREE AND

14:19FOUR. DOCUMENTS. NUMBER

14:232026-287. DYNAMIC PRICING AND

14:25SURVEILLANCE. PRICING,

14:27REGULATION PRESENTATION AND

14:312026-308 ADD REGULATION OF

14:33DYNAMIC PRICING AND PROHIBITION

14:34OF SURVEILLANCE. PRICING IN

14:35RETAIL CODE ADD CODE. CHAPTER

14:397.28.

14:41>> THANK YOU. AND I AM GOING TO

14:43TURN IT OVER TO COUNCILOR

14:45ZIMMERMAN. AND I BELIEVE YOU

14:46AND YOUR STAFF HAVE A

14:47PRESENTATION FOR US.

14:48>> WE DO. THANK YOU, CHAIR.

14:50IT'S GREAT TO BE HERE. I DO

14:51HAVE BOTH LUKE AND DANIEL FROM

14:54MY TEAM AT THE DAIS WILL HELP

14:55WITH THE PRESENTATION. BUT AS

14:57WE GO THROUGH THIS, I KNOW

14:58THERE WILL BE SOME ASPECT OF

15:01DEFINING CERTAIN THINGS. AND SO

15:04THAT'S WHAT THIS PRESENTATION

15:06IS GOING TO ATTEMPT TO DO,

15:07WHILE WE ALSO LAY OUT BOTH A

15:09PROBLEM AND A SOLUTION. IF WE

15:11CAN GO TO THE NEXT SLIDE. THIS

15:14THE CONSUMERS OPPOSED TO

15:15SURVEILLANCE TECHNOLOGY OR THE

15:17COST ORDINANCE IS REALLY TRYING

15:19TO FACE A PROBLEM. THAT IS, WE

15:22JUST HEARD ABOUT BEING ON THE

15:23PRECIPICE OF SOMETHING. WE'RE

15:24ON THE PRECIPICE OF TECHNOLOGY,

15:26MOVING FAST ENOUGH AND FASTER

15:27THAN FRANKLY, I THINK CONSUMERS

15:29CAN, TO THE POINT WHERE WE CAN

15:32SEE THAT TECHNOLOGY IS HEADED

15:34TOWARD A SURVEILLANCE BASED OR

15:37AN AI ENHANCED PRICE SETTING

15:39MODEL WITHIN THE RETAIL MARKET.

15:41AND SO FROM THE PERSPECTIVE OF

15:44OF OUR OFFICE AND OTHERS, IT'S

15:46THAT IF WE CAN GET IN FRONT OF

15:48THIS ISSUE, WE HAVE A CHANCE

15:49HERE. SO GOING TO THE NEXT

15:52SLIDE, I WANT TO JUST DEFINE A

15:54FEW TERMS DYNAMIC PRICING OF

15:55ALTERING THE PRICE OF AN ITEM

15:57FOR ALL CUSTOMERS IN REAL TIME

15:58BASED ON EXTERNAL FACTORS SUCH

16:00AS WEATHER, DEMAND, TIME OF DAY,

16:02AND AVAILABILITY OF SUPPLY.

16:04SURVEILLANCE IS BASED SETTING

16:05THE PRICE OF AN ITEM FOR A

16:07SPECIFIC CUSTOMER BASED ON

16:08INFORMATION ACQUIRED THROUGH

16:09THEIR PERSONAL DATA, SOME

16:11HISTORY, INCOME AND DEMOGRAPHIC

16:13PROFILES. RETAIL VENDOR ANY

16:14BUSINESS THAT SELLS GOODS TO

16:16CUSTOMERS WITHIN THE CITY OF

16:17PORTLAND AND THIRD PARTY

16:18SERVICE PROVIDERS. ANY BUSINESS

16:19THAT DELIVERS GOODS TO

16:21CUSTOMERS OF A RETAIL VENDOR.

16:23JUST NOTING THAT NEITHER

16:25DYNAMIC PRICING NOR

16:26SURVEILLANCE PRICING ARE ALL

16:27ABOUT THE COST OF GOODS SO MUCH

16:28AND THE COST OF LABOR LABOR.

16:30BUT THAT DYNAMIC AND

16:31SURVEILLANCE PRICING USUALLY

16:32COMES AFTER WE'VE SEEN ORIGINAL

16:35PRICES SET. SO JUST KEEP THAT

16:36IN MIND. WE'RE ALREADY ON TO

16:38THE NEXT SLIDE. AND JUST IN

16:39TERMS OF THE PUBLIC REACTION,

16:41THE PUBLIC IS ALREADY FAMILIAR

16:42WITH DYNAMIC PRICING. THIS IS A

16:44COMMON PRACTICE THAT WE SEE IN

16:47RIDE SHARE AIRLINES, HOTELS,

16:49THOSE TYPES OF SERVICES THAT A

16:51PERSON BUYS. BUT APPLYING THAT

16:57TO RETAIL GOODS AND RETAIL

16:58GOODS IS WHAT TODAY IS REALLY

17:01ABOUT. I SAY THAT BECAUSE I

17:03WANT TO MAKE SURE I UNDERLINE

17:04FOR YOU THAT TODAY'S ORDINANCE

17:06IS NOT IS NOT TAKING ANY ACTION

17:10AGAINST THE SERVICE INDUSTRY.

17:13AND THERE'S MORE TO COME ON

17:14THAT. BUT I WANTED TO BE VERY

17:15CLEAR. WE'RE TALKING ABOUT

17:16RETAIL GOODS. MOVING TO THE

17:19NEXT SLIDE. THANK YOU. YOU'VE

17:21SEEN SOME STUFF ACROSS THE

17:23COUNTRY. CITIES AND STATES

17:24AROUND THE NATION HAVE STARTED

17:26TO TO ACT. EVEN OUR OWN SENATOR

17:28MERKLEY AND REPRESENTATIVE

17:29HOYLE, BOTH FROM OREGON, HAVE

17:31BEEN TRYING TO WORK FEDERAL

17:32LEGISLATION TO HALT THIS TYPE

17:34OF WHAT COULD BE POTENTIAL

17:35PRICE MANIPULATION IN THE

17:37RETAIL GOODS. BUT CERTAINLY

17:38WHAT WE'RE SEEING IN THE

17:40SERVICES AREA, WE'VE LISTED

17:42HERE SOME STATES WHO'VE ALREADY

17:43TRIED TO TAKE SOME ACTION OR

17:46SUCCESSFULLY TAKEN SOME ACTION.

17:47AND WE'LL JUST SAY THAT AS

17:49TECHNOLOGY MOVES RAPIDLY IN

17:51THIS MOMENT, WHEN ALL THINGS

17:53RELATED TO TECHNOLOGY ADVANCES,

17:55I THINK EVERYBODY'S TRYING TO

17:56KEEP UP HERE. SO MOVING TO THE

17:58NEXT, THE REASON THAT WE'RE

18:01BRINGING THIS FORWARD TO YOU IS

18:04REALLY IN TERMS OF ENSURING

18:06THAT PORTLAND DOESN'T SLIDE ANY

18:08FURTHER AWAY FROM MAKING SURE

18:10THAT EVERYBODY IS TREATED

18:11FAIRLY WHEN THEY'RE IN THE

18:12RETAIL MARKET, THAT WE'RE

18:13TALKING ABOUT AFFORDABILITY,

18:14WE'RE TALKING ABOUT A CONSUMER

18:16PROTECTION ISSUE. AND

18:18ULTIMATELY, THIS COMES DOWN TO

18:19A FAIRNESS ISSUE FOR ALL

18:20SHOPPERS AND ENSURING THAT YOUR

18:22PRIVATE INFORMATION IS NOT USED

18:24TO SET PRICES FOR YOU. SO WHAT

18:28DOES THE COST ORDINANCE AND DO

18:32AND HOW DOES IT REGULATE? SO IN

18:34TERMS OF HOW DOES IT REGULATE

18:35DYNAMIC PRICING. PRICES CANNOT

18:38BE INCREASED MORE THAN ONCE IN

18:40A CALENDAR DAY AND APPLIES TO

18:43ALL RETAIL VENDORS AND THIRD

18:44PARTY DELIVERY SERVICE

18:46PROVIDERS. IN OUR DISCUSSIONS

18:50ABOUT WHAT IS A NORM WITHIN THE

18:52MARKET, WE'VE FOUND THAT A ONCE

18:55A DAY PRICE CHANGE IS QUITE

18:58REASONABLE, AND THAT WE'RE ALL

18:59FAMILIAR WITH THE NEED TO MOVE.

19:01I'M GOING TO USE GROCERY AS AN

19:02INSTANCE, BUT THE NEED TO MOVE

19:04A PRODUCT, NONE OF THIS GETS IN

19:07THE WAY OF THAT, BUT MAKING

19:09SURE THAT IF YOU WENT TO THE

19:10STORE, YOU KNOW, AT 9 A.M.

19:14VERSUS 1 P.M. THAT THERE'S A

19:16REASONABLE EXPECTATION THAT

19:18THAT PRICES REMAIN THE SAME

19:19UNLESS IT'S PART OF A PROGRAM

19:21SET OF CHANGES. SO WHAT DOES IT

19:23DO FOR SURVEILLANCE PRICING? IT

19:24REALLY MEANS THAT PERSONAL DATA

19:26INCLUDED IN YOUR PROTECTED

19:27CLASS DATA CANNOT BE USED TO

19:30ESTABLISH A RETAIL PRICE

19:32SPECIFICALLY TO YOU AS AN

19:33IMPORTANT PART, AND IT APPLIES

19:34TO ALL RETAIL VENDORS AND THIRD

19:36PARTY DELIVERY SERVICE

19:38PROVIDERS. WE CAN GO TO THE

19:40NEXT SLIDE. EXCUSE ME, BEFORE I

19:44TALK ABOUT THIS A LITTLE BIT. I

19:46DO WANT TO JUST SAY IN TERMS OF

19:48WHAT IS THE ORDINANCE? DO WE

19:49ALSO HAVE THE ORDINANCE NOT

19:51TAKING PLACE UNTIL JULY 1ST OF

19:532027? SO REALLY, GIVEN THE

19:57TIMELINE OF THIS COUNCIL AND

19:58HOW IT COMES OUT OF IF IF IT

20:00COMES OUT, IF YOU ALL DECIDE TO

20:02SEND IT TO COUNCIL, I SEE THAT

20:04AS BASICALLY COMING UP TO

20:06BETWEEN 6 AND 8, 6 TO 9 MONTHS

20:08BEFORE GOING LIVE. BUT THE GOOD

20:09THING HERE IS THAT GENERALLY WE

20:11DON'T BELIEVE AND HAVE NOT

20:12HEARD FROM RETAILERS THAT THIS

20:13IS ALREADY A TECHNOLOGY IN

20:15PLACE. AND SO WHAT WE'D BE

20:16SENDING IS A SIGNAL TO, TO

20:18FOLKS WHO DO BUSINESS IN

20:19PORTLAND OF WE KNOW YOU'RE

20:21GETTING PITCHED ON THIS

20:22TECHNOLOGY. WE'RE TELLING YOU,

20:23DON'T INVEST IN THAT KIND OF

20:25CAPITAL EXPANSION BECAUSE WE'RE

20:26NOT GOING TO ALLOW IT HERE. BUT

20:28THIS IS THIS IS WHAT YOU SEE IN

20:30TERMS OF OUR DAY HERE OR OF OUR

20:32IMPLEMENTATION. THE PROVISIONS

20:33WILL COVER MATTERS THAT ARE NOT

20:35PREEMPTED BY STATE OR FEDERAL

20:36LAW. AND WE'RE NOT TRYING TO

20:38CREATE A COMPLICATED PATCHWORK,

20:40WHICH IS WHY YOU SEE SOME

20:41PRETTY BROAD TERMS IN ORDER TO

20:43AVOID LOOPHOLES AND WHAT IFS,

20:45AND JUST BE VERY

20:46STRAIGHTFORWARD WITH

20:47PORTLANDERS, WITH CONSUMERS AND

20:49WITH WITH BUSINESSES. I ALSO

20:53WANT TO BE REALLY CLEAR, JUST

20:55GIVEN THE NATURE OF THIS

20:56CONVERSATION ACROSS THE COUNTRY,

20:58THAT THIS ORDINANCE IS NOT

21:01PROHIBITING THE USE OF

21:02ELECTRONIC SHELF LABELS, AS YOU

21:03SAW IN THE PICTURE IN THE

21:06OPENING OF THIS, THAT LABEL

21:08THEMSELVES AS NOT THE

21:10CONCERNING ASPECT. IT IS THE

21:12TECHNOLOGY THAT IS ENABLED TO

21:14EXPLOIT BASED ON THE USE OF

21:16LABELS. AND SO WE'RE GOING TO

21:17GO AFTER THE TECHNOLOGY AND THE

21:19EXPLOITATIVE STUFF, INSTEAD OF

21:20JUST THE CHANGE IN LABEL

21:21TECHNOLOGY. SO. IN THIS

21:25DISCUSSION, IT IS INHERENT.

21:27YOU'RE GOING TO GET TO THE

21:28POINT WHERE YOU TALK ABOUT

21:30LOYALTY PROGRAMS. AND LOYALTY

21:31PROGRAMS MEAN THINGS LIKE

21:32SAFEWAY REWARDS, FRED MEYER

21:34REWARDS, COSTCO MEMBERSHIPS,

21:37AMAZON PRIME MEMBERSHIPS, THOSE

21:38TYPES OF THINGS THAT WE ALL ARE

21:40AWARE, WELL AWARE OF. AND MANY

21:42PEOPLE ARE MEMBERS OF THAT.

21:44THIS DOES NOT ATTACK ANY OF

21:46THOSE TYPICAL PROGRAMS AND

21:47THOSE THAT ARE SET UP FOR THEIR

21:49CONSUMERS. THE COST ORDINANCE

21:51DOESN'T LIMIT OR REGULATE

21:53DISCOUNTS AND SALES AND LOYALTY

21:55PROGRAMS. RETAILERS CAN STILL

21:56CONTINUE TO OFFER THOSE

21:57DISCOUNTS TO ATTRACT

22:00TO BUILD THAT CUSTOMER BASE.

22:02MEMBERSHIP AND LOYALTY AND

22:03REWARD SUBSCRIPTION ARE ALL

22:06UNTOUCHED. IN THIS SIGNING UP

22:08FOR MAILING LIST OR AGREEING TO

22:09SHARE YOUR PERSONAL DATA,

22:11REGISTERING FOR PROMOTIONS,

22:13COMMUNICATIONS THOSE ARE ALL, I

22:14THINK, THINGS WE'RE USED TO.

22:16ANOTHER AREA THAT WE'RE NOT

22:18TRYING TO ATTACK HERE AND

22:19MAKING SURE IS PROTECTED IS. IF

22:23A PERSON IS PART OF A

22:24PROFESSIONAL GROUP. SO WE SEE

22:26VETERANS DISCOUNTS, WE SEE

22:27TEACHERS DISCOUNTS. SOMETIMES

22:29WE SEE STUDENT DISCOUNTS,

22:31SOMETIMES RESIDENTS OF A

22:32CERTAIN AREA, MAYBE A

22:34NEIGHBORHOOD HAS HAS SAID,

22:35WE'RE GOING TO HAVE A PROMOTION

22:37FOR, FOR MEMBERS OF THIS

22:38NEIGHBORHOOD, YOUTH AND SENIOR

22:40CITIZENS. THESE ARE ALL THINGS

22:41THAT I THINK ARE FAIRLY COMMON

22:43WITHIN THE AMERICAN CONSUMER

22:44MARKET, AND WE'RE ALL QUITE

22:45USED TO. AND I WANT TO BE CLEAR

22:47THAT THIS IS NOT CHANGING

22:49ANYTHING FOR THEM. AND OF

22:51COURSE, YOUR COUPONS,

22:52PROMOTIONS, THINGS OF THAT

22:53NATURE. WHAT WE'RE REALLY

22:56TRYING TO SAY IS THAT RETAILERS

22:57CAN SET A DIFFERENT SERVICE

22:58BASED FEES ON, ON OBJECTIVE

23:01COSTS FOR DELIVERING PRICES AND

23:02GOODS, BUT THAT'S BETWEEN THEM

23:03AND THEIR CONSUMER AND HOW

23:05THEY'RE GOING TO BE COMPETITIVE

23:07IN THE MARKET, AND THAT THOSE

23:08LOYALTY PROGRAMS ARE PART OF

23:09THAT. SO IN TERMS OF IF THIS

23:12WERE TO GO FORWARD, HOW WOULD A

23:14COST ORDINANCE BE ENFORCED? THE

23:15LAW HAS A PENALTY STRUCTURE

23:17WITH WITH OPPORTUNITIES TO CURE

23:20ANY VIOLATIONS. AND SO WE SEE

23:22THAT BASICALLY GO THROUGH A THE

23:24TYPICAL CITY ADMINISTRATOR'S

23:26OFFICE SLASH HEARINGS OFFICER

23:28PROGRAM THAT WE SEE IN OTHER

23:29PARTS OF THE CITY. IF A

23:32VIOLATION IS DETERMINED, A

23:33PENALTY CAN BE ASSESSED ON A

23:35RETAILER OR A DELIVERY PROVIDER

23:36IF A VIOLATION FOR IT IS A

23:38VIOLATION FOR EACH CONSUMER FOR

23:40WHOM A PRICE HAS BEEN SET IN A

23:42NON-COMPLIANT MANNER, AND

23:43PENALTIES CAN BE WAIVED IF THE

23:45VIOLATION IS CURED WITHIN 45

23:46DAYS AFTER THE NOTICE IS

23:48RECEIVED BY THE BUSINESS FOR

23:50THE FIRST VIOLATION, A 24 MONTH

23:52PERIOD. I WANT TO JUST NOTE

23:53HERE A LITTLE BIT OF OUR

23:55APPROACH IN WORKING TO COME UP

23:57WITH AN ENFORCEMENT AND A

23:59VIOLATION STRUCTURE, WHICH WAS

24:01WE ARE GETTING AHEAD OF A

24:03TECHNOLOGY AND WE'RE ASKING

24:04WE'RE ASKING THE MARKET NOT TO

24:06ADOPT A CERTAIN TYPE OF

24:07TECHNOLOGY. AND I THINK THAT

24:10THAT'S IMPORTANT BECAUSE WE'RE

24:12LAYING OUT A SET OF

24:13EXPECTATIONS FOR WHAT IT WOULD

24:14BE LIKE TO BE A CONSUMER IN

24:16PORTLAND. AND SO WHILE WE HAVE

24:17SOME FLEXIBILITY IN HERE, I

24:20ALSO EXPECT THAT IF WE SET A

24:22STANDARD EARLY AND NOW WE CAN

24:24AVOID A SIGNIFICANT NUMBER OF

24:26OF ISSUES BECAUSE WE WON'T BE

24:27UNRAVELING A CURRENT PRACTICE,

24:28WE'RE ACTUALLY PREVENTING A

24:30FUTURE PRACTICE. SO JUST TO

24:31KIND OF GET YOU AN IDEA FOR

24:32WHAT A PENALTY AMOUNT MIGHT

24:34LOOK LIKE IF WE PASS SUCH A

24:35THING, IS THAT IT'S NOTED IN

24:37THE ORDINANCE AS A $1,000 FOR

24:39THE FIRST VIOLATION IN A

24:40CALENDAR YEAR, 5000 FOR A

24:42SECOND VIOLATION IN THAT SAME

24:43CALENDAR YEAR, AND 7500 FOR ANY

24:46SUBSEQUENT VIOLATION IN THE

24:47SAME CALENDAR YEAR. AND THAT'S

24:49HOW THAT'S LAID OUT. GOING

24:51THROUGH OUR TYPICAL HUMAN

24:53EXCUSE ME HEARINGS OFFICER, I

24:56DO WANT TO INVITE UP SOME

24:58MEMBERS OF THE COMMUNITY WHO'VE

25:00HELPED US DRAFT SOME OF THIS

25:02LEGISLATION. MIKE SALVAGGIO

25:04FROM THE UNITED FOOD AND

25:05COMMERCIAL WORKERS LOCAL 555 IF

25:07YOU WOULDN'T MIND JOINING US AT

25:08THE DAIS, AND AMANDA DALTON

25:10FROM THE NORTHWEST GROCERY

25:11RETAIL ASSOCIATION, I'D INVITE

25:12YOU BOTH UP AS INVITED

25:14TESTIMONY. AND I THANK YOU GUYS

25:15FOR YOUR TIME. I KNOW YOU'RE

25:17HERE ABOUT A MONTH AGO, SO

25:18THANK YOU FOR COMING BACK. MIKE,

25:26DO YOU WANT TO START, SINCE

25:27YOU'RE ON THE TOP OF THE LIST?

25:30>> THANK YOU, MADAM CHAIR. MR.

25:32COUNCILOR, MEMBERS OF THE

25:34COMMITTEE. FOR THE RECORD, MY

25:35NAME IS MICHAEL SALVAGGIO. I AM

25:37HERE REPRESENTING UNITED FOOD

25:39AND COMMERCIAL WORKERS LOCAL

25:41555. WE HAVE TENS OF THOUSANDS

25:46OF MEMBERS IN OREGON AND BITS

25:48OF WASHINGTON AND IDAHO. WE ARE

25:50OREGON'S LARGEST PRIVATE SECTOR

25:53UNION, AND IF YOU ARE SHOPPING

25:56AT A SAFEWAY, FRED MEYER,

25:59ALBERTSONS OR A NUMBER OF OTHER

26:01STORES IN THE AREA, YOU'RE

26:02PROBABLY INTERACTING WITH OUR

26:03MEMBERS. THE REASON THAT WE'VE

26:07BROUGHT THIS UP IS THAT LIKE

26:08MANY PORTLANDERS, OUR MEMBERS

26:11ARE STRUGGLING WITH NOT ONLY

26:13HIGH, BUT UNPREDICTABLE PRICES

26:16THAT ARE THE EFFECT OF A NUMBER

26:20OF DIFFERENT FACTORS THAT ARE

26:21GOING ON IN OUR COUNTRY AND IN

26:23THE WORLD RIGHT NOW.

26:26COMPOUNDING THAT, THOUGH, IS,

26:28AS COUNCILOR ZIMMERMAN

26:29MENTIONED, WHAT WE SEE ON THE

26:32HORIZON WITH REGARD TO THESE

26:33EMERGING TECHNOLOGIES, THE

26:37ADVENT OF ELECTRONIC SHELVING

26:39LABELS IS, AS AGAIN, AS

26:42COUNCILOR ZIMMERMAN NOTED, NOT

26:44IN AND OF ITSELF NEFARIOUS, BUT

26:48THE ABILITY OF SOME OF THESE

26:50THIRD PARTY TECHNOLOGY

26:52PROVIDERS TO THEN GO AHEAD AND

26:55PITCH CERTAIN PRODUCTS THAT ARE

26:58ATTACHED TO THOSE IS WHAT

27:01REALLY HAS KIND OF GOT OUR BACK

27:02UP. AND I WANT TO SAY, FOR THE

27:06RECORD, WE'RE NOT TALKING ABOUT

27:09THE KROGER COMPANY OR, OR

27:10SAFEWAY, ALBERTSONS. WE'RE

27:11TALKING ABOUT COMPANIES THAT

27:14THE AVERAGE PORTLANDER PROBABLY

27:15HAS NEVER HEARD OF, SUCH AS

27:17NATIONWIDE GROUP OR UIPATH OR

27:20TINGLING. THESE ARE COMPANIES

27:22THAT ARE NOT REALLY HIDING

27:24THEIR HANDS IN TERMS OF WHAT

27:26THEY'RE PITCHING. THEY'RE

27:27THEY'RE ACTIVELY SUGGESTING TO

27:30RETAILERS TO. USE THIS

27:34TECHNOLOGY FOR THINGS LIKE, AND

27:36I'LL JUST KIND OF QUOTE. THIS

27:39IS FROM NATIONWIDE GROUP BY

27:41USING DIGITAL PRICE TAGS,

27:43PRODUCT PRICING IS

27:44AUTOMATICALLY UPDATED,

27:45RESULTING IN A REDUCTION OF

27:46MISSED MARGIN OPPORTUNITIES. OR

27:48TO PUT THAT ANOTHER WAY, IF

27:50THERE'S AN OPPORTUNITY TO

27:51CHARGE THE CUSTOMER A HIGHER

27:53PRICE, WE'RE NOT GOING TO MISS

27:54THAT. WE SEE ELEMENTS SUCH AS

27:59AGENTIC AI AT WORK, WHICH MEANS

28:02AN AI SYSTEM THAT IS ACTING ON

28:04ITS OWN WITHOUT A HUMAN

28:07INTERMEDIARY IN ORDER TO, AS

28:09ONE OTHER PROVIDER PUTS IT,

28:11QUOTE, INTERPRET CUSTOMER

28:12CONTEXT FROM LIVE DATA AND

28:16EVERY PRICING DECISION IS

28:18PREDICATED, OPTIMIZED, AND

28:20EXECUTED AUTOMATICALLY. THESE

28:22ARE THE TYPES OF INVASIVE

28:23PRICING MODELS THAT WE'RE MORE

28:25CONCERNED ABOUT IN THE FUTURE.

28:29AND SO AGAIN, AS COUNCILOR

28:31ZIMMERMAN, I'M GOING TO REFER

28:32TO COUNCILOR ZIMMERMAN A LOT,

28:33GIVEN THAT HE MADE A GOOD

28:35PRESENTATION. AS THE COUNSELOR

28:39SAID, THIS IS NOT SOMETHING

28:42WHERE WE'RE GOING TO WE'RE

28:42GOING TO PASS A MEASURE, AND

28:45THEN PEOPLE ARE GOING TO GO TO

28:47THE GROCERY STORE AND SEE

28:48SOMETHING DRASTICALLY DIFFERENT

28:49THAN THEY DID BEFORE. THIS IS

28:51PREVENTATIVE. AND SO WE HAVE A

28:54DRAFT THAT WE SEE HERE. WE'RE

28:58JUST, FOR THE RECORD, IN FAVOR

29:00OF THE DRAFT. WE'RE PROBABLY

29:01GOING TO BE DOING SOME

29:02ADDITIONAL WORK AT THE STATE

29:04LEVEL ON THIS FOR THINGS THAT

29:06THE CITY IS NOT ABLE TO TO

29:08TACKLE. BUT THE I DID WANT TO

29:13PUT A FEW THINGS ON THE RECORD

29:17AS WELL, AND THAT IS OUR

29:20ORGANIZATIONS DESIRE TO MAKE

29:22SURE THAT THOSE LOYALTY

29:24PROGRAMS ARE ARE PROTECTED.

29:27WHEN WE TALK ABOUT LOYALTY

29:29PROGRAMS, YOU KNOW, WE WERE

29:31THINKING OF THAT FRED MEYER

29:32CARD, THAT SAFEWAY CARD, THINGS

29:34THAT ARE KEEPING CUSTOMERS

29:35COMING BACK TO THAT UNION STORE.

29:38WE WANT TO KEEP THOSE IN PLACE

29:39BECAUSE WE DO WANT THOSE

29:40CUSTOMERS TO KEEP ON COMING

29:41BACK TO THOSE UNION STORES. AND

29:44SO WHATEVER MEASURE OR

29:47ADJUSTMENTS OR AMENDMENTS ARE

29:50BEING CONSIDERED OR COME DOWN

29:51THE PIKE, OR IF THEY STAY AS IS,

29:53WE JUST WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT

29:56WE'RE CONVEYING OUR DESIRE TO,

29:58TO, TO HOLD THOSE PROGRAMS

30:00HARMLESS. AND I'M SURE THERE'S

30:04PLENTY MORE I COULD SAY, BUT I

30:06WILL SAVE SOME FOR QUESTIONS IN

30:09CASE ANYONE WANTS TO DIG IN A

30:10LITTLE DEEPER ON THAT.

30:13>> THANK YOU, MR. SALVAGGIO.

30:14APPRECIATE YOU SPENDING SO MUCH

30:15TIME WITH US BOTH LAST MONTH

30:17AND NOW, AND HELPING US

30:19UNDERSTAND THIS TOPIC EVEN

30:20BETTER.

30:20>> IT'S ALWAYS A PLEASURE.

30:21>> YEAH. AMANDA, DO YOU WANT TO

30:23GO AHEAD?

30:23>> ABSOLUTELY. CHAIR

30:24PIRTLE-GUINEY MEMBERS OF THE

30:26COMMITTEE. AMANDA DALTON I'M

30:26THE PRESIDENT OF THE NORTHWEST

30:28GROCERY RETAIL ASSOCIATION. OUR

30:29MEMBERS INCLUDE LARGE AND SMALL

30:32GROCERY RETAILERS, DELIVERY

30:33PARTNERS, AND COMPANIES THAT

30:35STOCK YOUR STORE SHELVES ACROSS

30:36THE CITY, INCLUDING IN OREGON,

30:38WASHINGTON AND IDAHO. I DO ALSO

30:40WANT TO ECHO THE THANKS AND

30:42APPRECIATION TO COUNSEL

30:43ZIMMERMAN AND HIS TEAM. NICE TO

30:46SEE YOU. WHO HAS REALLY PUT A

30:49TON OF WORK INTO THE AMENDED

30:51ORDINANCE. THAT'S BEFORE YOU.

30:53AS YOU'VE HEARD, THIS IS AN

30:54ISSUE THAT'S BEING DEBATED

30:55ACROSS THE COUNTRY. AND RIGHT

30:56NOW ELSEWHERE IN OUR REGION. IT

30:59WON'T SURPRISE YOU THAT WE

31:00BELIEVE AN ISSUE LIKE THIS IS

31:01BETTER ADDRESSED AT THE STATE

31:03LEVEL. SHOPPERS, RETAILERS,

31:04DELIVERY NETWORKS DON'T STOP AT

31:06CITY BOUNDARIES, AND A

31:08PATCHWORK OF DIFFERENT LOCAL

31:09REQUIREMENTS DOES CREATE REAL

31:11CHALLENGES. THAT BEING SAID, IF

31:13PORTLAND IS GOING TO ACT

31:14LOCALLY, WE APPRECIATE THE

31:16THOUGHTFUL AND STRAIGHTFORWARD

31:17APPROACH PRESENTED IN THE

31:18AMENDED ORDINANCE BEFORE YOU. I

31:20WILL NOTE THAT IT STANDS IN

31:21STARK CONTRAST TO A VOTE THAT'S

31:23TAKING PLACE RIGHT NOW IN THE

31:25CITY OF SEATTLE, WHERE WE

31:27EXPECT A POLICY TO ADVANCE,

31:29WHICH WILL SIGNIFICANTLY

31:31RESTRICT LEGITIMATE DISCOUNTS

31:32AND PROMOTIONS AND ULTIMATELY

31:34CREATE UNINTENDED COST

31:36INCREASES FOR OUR SHOPPERS. OUR

31:39MEMBERS SUPPORT PROTECTIONS

31:40THAT ARE CLEAR THAT PREVENT

31:42CONSUMERS FROM BEING CHARGED

31:44HIGHER PRICES BASED ON THEIR

31:45PERSONAL INFORMATION. I WANT TO

31:47BE VERY CLEAR ABOUT THIS POINT.

31:49GROCERY STORES IN PORTLAND ARE

31:51NOT DOING THIS TODAY. GROCERY

31:53IS A HIGHLY COMPETITIVE, LOW

31:55MARGIN BUSINESS WHERE PRICES

31:57AND PROMOTIONS CHANGE FOR MANY

31:59LEGITIMATE REASONS. SO GETTING

32:01THE DISTINCTION BETWEEN

32:03INDIVIDUALIZED PRICE INCREASES

32:05AND ORDINARY COMPETITIVE

32:06PRICING RIGHT, MATTERS TO BOTH

32:09RETAILERS AND TO CONSUMERS. AT

32:12THE SAME TIME, GROCERY SHOPPERS

32:14INCREASINGLY RELY ON DISCOUNTS,

32:16PROMOTIONS AND LOYALTY PROGRAMS

32:17TO STRETCH HOUSEHOLD BUDGETS.

32:19SO THROUGHOUT THIS PROCESS, OUR

32:21GOAL, AND ONE THAT WE VERY MUCH

32:23APPRECIATE, HAS BEEN ECHOED BY

32:24UFCW AND COUNCILOR. ZIMMERMAN

32:26HAS BEEN TO MAKE SURE THE

32:27ORDINANCE PRESENTED IS AIMED AT

32:29PREVENTING UNFAIR PRICING

32:31PRACTICES, WHILE NOT

32:32INADVERTENTLY ELIMINATING THE

32:34SAVINGS THAT YOUR SHOPPERS

32:35DEPEND ON. I WILL SAY THIS IS

32:37NOT AN ORDINANCE THAT OUR

32:38INDUSTRY WOULD HAVE DRAFTED,

32:39AND THERE ARE AMENDMENTS THAT

32:41WE WOULD HAVE PREFERRED TO SEE

32:42INCLUDED. HOWEVER, WE ALSO

32:44RECOGNIZE THAT POLICY MAKING

32:45DONE RIGHT REQUIRES COMPROMISE,

32:47AND WE APPRECIATE THAT MANY OF

32:48OUR CONCERNS HAVE BEEN

32:49ADDRESSED AND ARE INCLUDED IN

32:51THE PROPOSAL BEFORE YOU. THIS

32:52INCLUDES LOYALTY PROTECT,

32:55PROTECTING PROGRAMS LIKE

32:55LOYALTY PROGRAMS, MEMBER

32:57PRICING, MANUFACTURE, COUPONS,

32:59PROMOTIONS, REWARDS, AND

33:00REBATES. I ALSO WANT TO

33:02RECOGNIZE THE APPROACH TO

33:03ENFORCEMENT NOTICE OF

33:05VIOLATIONS, ESCALATING

33:06PENALTIES FOR SUBSEQUENT

33:08VIOLATIONS, AND THE ABILITY TO

33:09CURE A FIRST ALLEGED VIOLATION

33:11WITH DISCRETION TO PURSUE

33:13ENFORCEMENT AFTER THAT, WITHIN

33:1445 DAYS CREATES A FAIR

33:15MECHANISM THAT PRIORITIZES

33:17COMPLIANCE WHILE MAINTAINING

33:19MEANINGFUL CONSUMER PROTECTIONS.

33:21THAT'S PARTICULARLY IMPORTANT

33:22BECAUSE THIS ORDINANCE APPLIES

33:24TO RETAILERS OF ALL SIZE. WE

33:27BELIEVE IT'S POSSIBLE TO

33:29PROTECT CONSUMERS FROM UNFAIR

33:31PRICING PRACTICES WHILE

33:33PRESERVING THE SAVINGS THEY

33:34RELY ON EVERY DAY. THE

33:35AMENDMENT AMENDED ORDINANCE

33:37BEFORE YOU DOES THIS AND

33:39DISTINGUISHES BETWEEN PRACTICES

33:40THAT CAN HARM CONSUMERS AND

33:42THOSE THAT CAN BENEFIT FROM

33:43THEM AND FINDS A WORKABLE

33:45BALANCE. AND FOR THOSE REASONS,

33:46WE APPRECIATE THE PROPOSAL

33:47BEFORE YOU AND THAT WORK THAT

33:49AND THE WORK THAT WENT INTO

33:50GETTING IT HERE. THANK YOU.

33:52>> MISS DALTON. THANK YOU FOR

33:53SPENDING SO MUCH TIME WITH US,

33:55AND WE APPRECIATE WORKING WITH

33:56YOU ON THAT. SO, COLLEAGUES, I

33:57WOULD LIKE TO MOVE INTO

33:59QUESTIONS, BUT I JUST WANT TO,

34:00YOU KNOW, GO A LITTLE. LESS

34:05FORMAL THAN THAN THE

34:07PRESENTATION, BUT REALLY OUR,

34:09OUR PANEL AND, AND THE IDEA

34:12AROUND THIS, THEY'VE SUMMED IT

34:13UP RIGHT. IT'S ABOUT PREVENTING

34:14FUTURE EXPLOITATION. IT'S ABOUT

34:16PREVENTING FUTURE UNFAIR PRICE

34:20PRACTICES. IT'S PREVENTING, I

34:21THINK, A A P I, I MARKET

34:23PERSONALLY IDENTIFIABLE

34:24INFORMATION MARKET. IT'S ABOUT

34:27PRESERVING LOYALTY PROGRAMS AND

34:28THE CONSUMER MARKET THAT MANY

34:30OF US HAVE COME TO, TO

34:32UNDERSTAND. AND IT'S ALSO

34:35PRESERVING LARGE AND SMALL

34:36RETAILERS, GROCERS IN OUR

34:38COMMUNITY, WHICH I THINK IS

34:40IMPORTANT. YOU KNOW, THERE ARE

34:41GOING TO BE OPPORTUNITIES, I

34:42THINK, IN THIS NEXT LEGISLATIVE

34:44SESSION AT THE STATE LEVEL. AND

34:45I THINK THAT THAT IS LIKELY TO

34:47GO BIGGER AND FARTHER IN TERMS

34:48OF THE TYPES OF THINGS THAT

34:50PEOPLE BUY. AND I THINK THAT

34:52THAT WILL BE APPROPRIATE FOR

34:53THEM. I AGREE WITH THE

34:55SENTIMENT ABOUT A PATCHWORK,

34:58AND I THINK THAT THE THE

35:00ORDINANCE ADDRESSES, IF A

35:02PATCHWORK EXISTS THAT WE WOULD

35:03BE, WE WOULD BE. SUBJECT TO

35:08STATE OR FEDERAL LAW IF THEY

35:10COME ABOUT. I THINK THAT'S

35:11IMPORTANT. IT'S ALSO AN

35:13OPPORTUNITY FOR US AS PORTLAND,

35:15MOVING AHEAD TO SET AN

35:17EXPECTATION OR A STANDARD,

35:19POTENTIALLY TO SHAPE AND HELP

35:20THE STATE GET IT RIGHT. AND

35:23SOMETIMES WE SEE THINGS AT THE

35:24STATE MOVE WONDERFULLY, AND

35:25OTHER TIMES WE'RE LEFT WANTING.

35:26AND I THINK THIS HELPS US SET A

35:29TONE AND AN AGENDA THAT CAN BE

35:31GOOD FOR THE STATE. I WILL NOT

35:35MOVE IT NOW, BUT I DO WANT TO

35:37FLAG IT NOW THAT YOU WILL SEE

35:39IN THE NEXT ITEM, ZIMMERMAN ONE.

35:41AS AN AMENDMENT, IT ADDS A

35:43SINGLE PARAGRAPH FOR A RETAIL

35:46PRICE IN THERE AND A COUPLE OF

35:48OTHER ADMINISTRATIVE WORD

35:49CHANGES. THAT IS WHAT I WILL

35:52MOVE TO REPLACE THE EXISTING

35:55ORDINANCE. SO A NEW, A NEW, I

35:56THINK IT'S H PARAGRAPH, BUT I

35:59WANTED YOU TO BE AWARE OF THAT.

36:00BEFORE WE GO INTO FURTHER

36:02DISCUSSION AND CONVERSATIONS.

36:03BUT I HOPE THAT WE'RE A CITY

36:04WHO'S READY TO SAY THAT NO

36:05MATTER WHERE THE TECHNOLOGY

36:07GOES, THAT WHEN YOU WALK INTO A

36:10GROCERY STORE WITH YOUR CELL

36:12PHONE, THAT THE SCANNER DOESN'T

36:13SAY, LOOK, IT'S ERIC ZIMMERMAN.

36:14LET'S START SETTING PRICES

36:15BASED ON HIM AND HIS SPECIFIC

36:18INFORMATION, BECAUSE HIS CELL

36:18PHONE WALKED THROUGH THE DOOR.

36:20AND MAKE SURE THAT WE CONTINUE

36:21TO SET PRICES BASED ON MARKET

36:22AND FAIRNESS AND

36:23NON-EXPLOITATIVE PRACTICES. SO

36:24THANK YOU, CHAIR, FOR GETTING

36:26US SCHEDULED. I'M REALLY

36:27APPRECIATIVE TO EVERYBODY'S

36:29PARTNERSHIP ON THIS, AND I KNOW

36:30THAT COUNCILOR SMITH AND

36:31COUNCILOR KOYAMA LANE HAVE BOTH

36:32INDICATED A DESIRE, A POTENTIAL

36:34DESIRE TO ADD THEIR NAMES AS

36:36CO-SPONSORS IN THE FUTURE TO

36:37THIS. SO THANK YOU.

36:38>> THANK YOU, COUNSELOR, AND

36:40THANK YOU TO BOTH OF OUR GUESTS

36:41FOR BEING HERE TODAY AS WELL.

36:43COLLEAGUES, WE'LL MOVE INTO

36:45QUESTIONS. I WILL NOTE THAT WE

36:47DO NOT HAVE ANYBODY SIGNED UP

36:48FOR PUBLIC TESTIMONY. I ALSO

36:50WANT TO NOTE THAT WE HAVE TWO

36:51AMENDMENTS POSTED, ONE FROM

36:52COUNCILOR ZIMMERMAN AND ONE

36:54FROM COUNCILOR MORILLO

36:55COUNCILOR ZIMMERMAN. DO YOU

36:56PREFER TO. IF IF YOUR ZIMMERMAN

36:59ONE IS A REPLACEMENT, DO YOU

37:01PREFER TO ADOPT THAT BEFORE WE

37:03MOVE INTO DISCUSSION, OR WOULD

37:04YOU LIKE TO MOVE INTO

37:06DISCUSSION FIRST?

37:07>> I THINK THAT WOULD BE MOST

37:08HEALTHY. YEAH. IT WAS IT'S A

37:10IT'S A ONE ADD TO IT. I THINK

37:12THAT'D BE GREAT. AND THEN WE

37:13CAN JUST DISCUSS IT AS IT IS IF

37:16WE CAN DO THAT.

37:17>> OKAY. AND. COUNCILOR.

37:18MORILLO. DOES YOUR AMENDMENT, I

37:20WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT WE'RE

37:21ABLE TO DEBATE YOUR AMENDMENT.

37:23IF YOU PLAN TO MOVE IT, IS IT

37:25TO THE ZIMMERMAN ONE VERSION OR

37:27THE UNDERLYING VERSION?

37:30>> FOR CLARITY, THE THE NEW

37:32VERSION JUST AMENDS ONE LINE IN

37:34YOUR CURRENT ORDINANCE.

37:36>> I'M SORRY, CAN YOU SAY THAT

37:38AGAIN? IT ADDS F RETAIL PRICE

37:44AND IT ADJUSTS A COUPLE OF

37:47WORDS IN THE FOLLOWING.

37:49>> C GOTCHA. OKAY. SORRY, MY, I

37:51GOT CONFUSED WITH WHAT YOU WERE

37:53SAYING, CHAIR. MY AMENDMENT IS

37:54TO THE UNDERLYING ORDINANCE,

37:55NOT TO HIS AMENDMENT TO THE

37:57ORDINANCE.

37:57>> OKAY. I WOULD SUGGEST IN

38:00ORDER FOR US TO HAVE THIS

38:01DEBATE THAT WE CONSIDER

38:04ZIMMERMAN ONE, AND THEN IF.

38:06COUNCILOR WE NEED TO HAVE SOME

38:08CONFORMING LANGUAGE TO YOUR

38:10AMENDMENT. IF IF THE BODY

38:11DECIDES TO MOVE IN THAT

38:12DIRECTION, WE CAN WORK THROUGH

38:14THAT.

38:14>> THAT SOUNDS FINE WITH ME.

38:16>> OKAY, SO COUNCILOR ZIMMERMAN,

38:18IF YOU WANT TO MAKE THAT MOTION

38:19BEFORE WE MOVE TO COUNCILOR

38:21MORILLO, WHO'S IN THE QUEUE, GO

38:22RIGHT AHEAD.

38:23>> THANK YOU. I'D LIKE TO MOVE

38:24ZIMMERMAN ONE SECOND.

38:28>> OKAY, COLLEAGUES, ANY DEBATE

38:30TO ZIMMERMAN ONE SO THAT WE CAN

38:32MOVE INTO DEBATING WHAT OUR

38:35COLLEAGUE INTENDS TO MOVE

38:36FORWARD. OKAY.

38:39>> CAN YOU CAN YOU JUST RESTATE

38:41QUICKLY WHAT THE CHANGE DOES?

38:42>> SURE. SO ZIMMERMAN ONE ADDS

38:45A NEW PARAGRAPH F RETAIL PRICE

38:48MEANS THE THEN CURRENT PRICE OF

38:50A GOOD OFFERED TO A CONSUMER

38:51PRIOR TO THE APPLICATION OF ANY

38:53LOYALTY OR MEMBERSHIP PRICING,

38:55PROMOTIONS, LIMITED TIME SALES

38:57DISCOUNTS AND FEES FOR FOR

38:59PREMIUM OR ADDITIONAL FEATURES.

39:01SO THAT IS IN THE DEFINITIONS

39:02SECTION. SO THEN THE CASCADING

39:05PARAGRAPHS

39:06>> ALL HAVE TO ADJUST BY ONE.

39:08THEN IN THE RESTRICTIONS AND

39:11PROHIBITIONS PARAGRAPH UNDER.

39:13SEE, WE STRIKE THE WORD

39:16AVAILABLE IN NUMBER ONE AND ALL,

39:19AND ADD THE LETTER A. SO OFFER

39:22OFFERING DISCOUNTS. A CONSUMER

39:24THROUGH A VOLUNTARY LOYALTY

39:26MEMBERSHIP REWARDS PROGRAM OR

39:28SUBSCRIPTION. AND IN THE SECOND

39:30NUMBER TWO, THEY'RE OFFERING

39:31SAME CHANGES OFFERING DISCOUNTS

39:34TO A CONSUMER BASED ON. ET

39:37CETERA. ET CETERA. AT THE VERY

39:39BOTTOM OF THE DOCUMENT, IN THE

39:43EFFECTIVE DATE AND INTERACTION

39:44WITH OTHER LAWS. PARAGRAPH B,

39:48THIS PROVISION OF THE CHAPTER

39:50WILL BE SUPERSEDED AND

39:52UNENFORCEABLE UPON THE

39:52EFFECTIVE DATE OF ANY

39:54CONFLICTING LAW PASSED BY THE

39:55STATE OF OREGON. AND WE'RE

39:57INSERTING A PERIOD AT THE END

39:58OF STATE OF OREGON. CURRENTLY,

40:00IT HAS REGULATING THE USE OF

40:02DYNAMIC PRICING OR SURVEILLANCE

40:03PRICING BY RETAIL. ET CETERA.

40:05ET CETERA. WE'RE STRIKING THAT

40:06TO JUST NOT BE REDUNDANT BASED

40:07ON THE ADVICE OF THE CITY

40:09COUNCIL OR CITY ATTORNEY. THOSE

40:12ARE THE THAT'S THE SUMMATION OF

40:13ALL THE CHANGES.

40:16>> COUNCILOR MORILLO DID YOU

40:17HAVE A QUESTION OR COMMENTS

40:18ABOUT ZIMMERMAN ONE?

40:21>> NO, THAT ALL SOUNDS FINE TO

40:22ME, I THINK I. SO I REALLY LIKE

40:26THAT WE ARE TRYING TO BAN

40:27SURVEILLANCE PRICING HERE. I'M

40:29VERY EXCITED ABOUT THIS AS A

40:30CONCEPT. AS YOU KNOW, I'M VERY

40:32INTO BANNING AI FOR PRICE

40:34FIXING. OVERALL, I THINK I HAVE

40:38MY AMENDMENT HAS SOME LINE BY

40:41LINE CHANGES. AND SO I AM A

40:44LITTLE CONCERNED ABOUT IF I GO

40:45THROUGH THIS AND TRY TO EXPLAIN

40:47IT TO PEOPLE, IF IT HAS THE

40:49UPDATED LINE CHANGE, THAT THEN

40:52CHANGES ALL THE LETTERING. THAT

40:53MIGHT BE HARD FOR PEOPLE TO

40:55FOLLOW, BUT I DON'T CARE IF

40:56OTHER PEOPLE DON'T CARE. I'M

40:57JUST SAYING THAT THAT MIGHT

40:59MAKE IT HARDER TO EXPLAIN. SO

41:01UP TO YOU GUYS. I'M JUST NOTING

41:04THAT IT MIGHT BE MORE DIFFICULT

41:06TO FOLLOW, BUT I HAVE WAYS OF

41:07MAKING IT EASIER AS WELL. IF WE

41:09CAN.

41:10>> LET'S WORK THROUGH THAT WHEN

41:11WE GET THERE. OKAY. AND LET

41:13COUNCILOR ZIMMERMAN, SINCE HE'S

41:14BRINGING THIS, GET TO THE

41:15VERSION HE WANTS. AND IF WE

41:17NEED TO FIGURE OUT HOW TO WORK

41:19THROUGH THE OTHER PIECES, WE

41:21CAN DO THAT.

41:21>> OKAY. NO WORRIES. WELL, I'M

41:23FINE WITH THIS AMENDMENT.

41:24SOUNDS GOOD.

41:24>> OKAY. THANK YOU. GREAT.

41:26>> WENDY, WE HAVE A MOTION AND

41:29A SECOND. COULD YOU CALL THE

41:30ROLL ON ZIMMERMAN ONE, PLEASE?

41:33>> AND MY APOLOGIES. CAN YOU

41:34TELL ME WHO MOVED THAT?

41:36>> MOVED BY ZIMMERMAN, SECONDED

41:38BY RYAN, I BELIEVE.

41:42>> AYE, MORILLO I.

41:45>> ZIMMERMAN I.

41:47>> AVALOS I. RYAN I.

41:50PIRTLE-GUINEY I.

41:53>> MOTION TO AMEND THE

41:54ORDINANCE AS SHOWN IN ZIMMERMAN

41:55ONE PASSES.

41:57>> THANK YOU AND COLLEAGUES, I

41:59APOLOGIZE. AS WE WERE HAVING

42:00THAT CONVERSATION, WE DID HAVE

42:01SOMEBODY IN THE ROOM SIGN UP TO

42:03TESTIFY. SO WHY DON'T WE BRING

42:05UP OUR TESTIFIER AND THEN WE'LL

42:07MOVE INTO OUR DEBATE?

42:08>> YEAH. AND I'M GOING TO ASK

42:10MY STAFF TO GO PRINT MORILLO

42:11ONE FOR EVERYBODY.

42:12>> SO PRINTED.

42:13>> OH THANK YOU. NEVER MIND.

42:19>> MADAM CHAIR, DO YOU WANT ME

42:21TO EXPLAIN WHAT MY AMENDMENT

42:22DOES BEFORE THE PERSON

42:23TESTIFIES?

42:24>> SURE. WHY DON'T WE HAVE YOU

42:26WALK THROUGH THE AMENDMENT, AND

42:27THEN BEFORE WE MOVE INTO DEBATE,

42:28WE WILL HEAR FROM OUR GUEST IN

42:30THE ROOM.

42:31>> OKAY, SO I'LL BE BRIEF FOR

42:33THIS. IT'S QUITE TECHNICAL, SO

42:35I APOLOGIZE FOR FOLKS WHO HAVE

42:36TO FOLLOW ALONG. I DO HAVE

42:38SOMETHING VISUALLY TO HELP MAKE

42:40IT A LITTLE BIT EASIER WHILE

42:41WE'RE DISCUSSING, BUT I HAVE AN

42:43AMENDMENT PACKAGE TO INTRODUCE.

42:47IT'S TO. I WANT TO BE CLEAR

42:49THAT IT PROTECTS DISCOUNTS AND

42:50LOYALTY PROGRAMS, AND IT

42:52REQUIRES THAT THESE RETAILERS

42:53OFFER DISCOUNTS TRANSPARENTLY

42:55TO EVERYONE WHO IS SIMILARLY

42:56SITUATED. THIS PACKAGE

42:58BASICALLY JUST ALIGNS US WITH

42:59WHAT OTHER STATES HAVE DONE AND

43:01ADDRESSES ISSUES OF

43:02SURVEILLANCE, PRICING IN

43:03PRACTICE, AND ALSO ADDS SOME

43:06ENFORCEMENT MECHANISMS. SO

43:07NOTHING IN THIS LIMITS

43:09DISCOUNTS. IT LIMITS DISCOUNT

43:10SIZE FROM YOUR PERSONAL DATA.

43:12AND I CAN GET INTO THAT FURTHER,

43:14BUT I JUST WANTED FOLKS WHO ARE

43:16COMING TO TESTIFY TO HAVE A

43:17LITTLE BIT OF BACKGROUND ON

43:19WHAT THAT DOES. AND WITH THAT,

43:20I WILL PASS IT OFF TO WHOEVER

43:22IS COMING UP. THANKS.

43:23>> GREAT. THANK YOU. COUNCILOR

43:24WENDY, COULD YOU PLEASE CALL

43:25OUR TESTIFIER.

43:26>> ROD PITTMAN? COME ON UP TO

43:28THE DAIS.

43:34>> WELCOME. THANK YOU FOR BEING

43:35HERE WITH US TODAY. DO YOU WANT

43:38TO TAKE A SEAT AND INTRODUCE

43:40YOURSELF FOR THE RECORD, SO

43:41THAT OUR STAFF HAVE THAT? AND

43:43THEN YOU'LL HAVE ARE WE WHAT IS

43:45OUR CLOCK SET AT FOR TODAY?

43:46THREE MINUTES. WENDY.

43:47>> IT'S IT'S THREE MINUTES. AND

43:50YOU'LL SEE IT AS A VERY SMALL

43:51NUMBER ON THE SCREEN IN FRONT

43:53OF YOU.

43:54>> RIGHT DOWN THERE IN FRONT OF

43:55YOU, IN THE MIDDLE OF THE

43:59CIRCLE.

43:59>> OH, YEAH.

44:00>> YEAH.

44:00>> PERFECT. SO YOU'LL HAVE

44:01THREE MINUTES TO GO AHEAD.

44:03>> I'M GOING TO DO UNDER 60.

44:07I'M ROD PITTMAN AND I LIVE IN

44:11THE JOHNS LANDING AREA, BUT

44:15I'VE LIVED ALL OVER PORTLAND.

44:18YOU KNOW, DOWNTOWN SELLWOOD ALL

44:22OVER PORTLAND. AND I'M JUST I

44:26JUST WANTED TO COME AND SAY HOW

44:29GRATEFUL THAT WE ARE THAT YOU

44:31ALL ARE ADDRESSING ALL OF THIS

44:32STUFF. AND BECAUSE IF WE CAN

44:36GET A HANDLE IN ON THIS, THEN

44:38WE'LL BE ABLE TO DO A MUCH

44:42BETTER JOB OF GETTING THE

44:45POTHOLES AND FIXED IN THE

44:48POLICE DEPARTMENT OR WHAT THEY

44:53NEED, AND MAKE SURE THAT

44:55THERE'S NO HANKIE PANKY

44:58INVOLVED BEING PRICE FIXING AND

45:01THINGS LIKE THAT. THANK YOU

45:04MUCH FOR YOUR TIME. HAVE A

45:05GREAT DAY.

45:06>> THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR BEING

45:08HERE AND FOR YOUR TESTIMONY. WE

45:09APPRECIATE HEARING FROM YOU.

45:13>> THAT CONCLUDES TESTIMONY.

45:15>> OKAY, COLLEAGUES, WE WILL

45:16NOW MOVE INTO DISCUSSION. WE

45:19ARE AT DISCUSSION OF THE

45:21UNDERLYING OR THE NOW AMENDED,

45:23I SHOULD SAY, THE NOW AMENDED

45:25ORDINANCE. COUNCILOR MORILLO.

45:29>> IT'S NOW THE RIGHT TIME TO

45:30INTRODUCE MY AMENDMENT.

45:31>> GO RIGHT AHEAD.

45:32>> OKAY. THANK YOU. I FOR FOLKS

45:35WHO ARE FOLLOWING ALONG ONLINE,

45:37THE AMENDMENT WAS POSTED ONLINE

45:38NOW. SO I THINK YOU SHOULD BE

45:40ABLE TO SEE THAT. I'M LOOKING

45:41TO CONFIRM. OKAY, IT LOOKS LIKE

45:43IT IS POSTED ONLINE, BUT FOR

45:44THE SAKE OF DISCUSSION FOR OUR

45:46COMMITTEE, I KNOW THAT IT'S

45:47QUITE LONG AND TECHNICAL, SO I

45:49HAVE AN OPTION TO MAKE IT A

45:51LITTLE BIT EASIER TO FOLLOW MY

45:53LOGIC. AND SO I'LL SHARE MY

45:56SCREEN QUICKLY AND THEN GO

45:57THROUGH THIS QUICKLY AND GET

45:58INTO DISCUSSION. WE ALSO HAVE

46:01AN ATTORNEY HERE WHO HELPED US

46:02WITH OUR AMENDMENTS. THEY

46:03REVIEWED THEM ALL TODAY, OR

46:05THEY REVIEWED THEM FOR A FEW

46:06DAYS, BUT GOT FINAL REVIEW

46:08TODAY. SO THEY'RE IN GOOD

46:09STANDING AND JUST WANTED TO

46:10SHARE THAT WITH FOLKS. BEFORE I

46:12GET STARTED.

46:13>> COUNCILOR JUST TO CLARIFY,

46:15THEY WERE REVIEWED BY THE CITY

46:16ATTORNEY'S OFFICE, CORRECT?

46:19>> YES. OKAY.

46:24>> AND I HOPE EVERYONE KNOWS

46:26THAT THIS IS MY VERSION OF

46:27BEING EXTREMELY EXCITED ABOUT A

46:29POLICY. SO BECAUSE I REALLY

46:32HATE PRICE FIXING AND I REALLY

46:33HATE AI, I'M TRYING TO SEE IF I

46:37CAN SHARE THIS SLIDESHOW. LOOKS

46:39LIKE IT IS IN. IS ANYONE HERE

46:51FOR TECH SUPPORT? CAN YOU HELP

46:52ME SHARE THIS SLIDE SHOW?

46:53THANKS. OH.

47:21>> THANK YOU.

47:23>> PERFECT. THANK YOU SO MUCH.

47:25OKAY. I'LL GO. I'LL GO THROUGH

47:27THIS QUICKLY BECAUSE I WANT TO

47:28MAKE SURE WE HAVE TIME TO

47:30ACTUALLY DISCUSS IT AND GO

47:31THROUGH EVERYTHING. SO

47:32SURVEILLANCE PRICING, AS WE'VE

47:33DISCUSSED IT, TARGETS DIFFERENT

47:35PRICES AT INDIVIDUAL CONSUMERS.

47:37AND THEY DO THAT BY USING

47:38PEOPLE'S PRIVATE INFORMATION.

47:40AND THAT IS CALLED

47:41INDIVIDUALIZED OR FIRST DEGREE

47:42PRICE DISCRIMINATION. SO THE

47:45THINGS THAT WE KNOW THAT THEY

47:48ARE COLLECTING ON US ARE WHAT

47:50WE BUY YOUR DEBT, WHERE YOU

47:51LIVE, WHAT PHONE YOU USE, ALL

47:53OF THOSE TYPES OF THINGS. AND

47:54WE KNOW THAT, FOR EXAMPLE,

47:56KROGER HAS PROFILES THAT RUN TO

47:5862 PAGES PER HOUSEHOLD. SO A

47:59LOT OF DATA ON PEOPLE AND WHAT

48:01THEY CAN INFER IS SOMEONE'S

48:03HEALTH STATUS, THEIR EMOTIONAL

48:05STATE PURCHASE INTENT, OR

48:07FINANCIAL SENSITIVITY. SO THEY

48:09CAN LITERALLY TARGET EVEN YOUR

48:11EMOTIONAL WELL-BEING TO FIGURE

48:12OUT WHEN TO PUSH A PRODUCT TO

48:13YOU. AND THEY CAN SET YOUR

48:16PRICE OR YOUR DISCOUNT OR YOUR

48:17FEE TO WHAT THE MODEL SAYS YOU

48:19AS A CONSUMER ARE GOING TO

48:21TOLERATE. SO IF YOU CAN AFFORD

48:22IT, OR IF YOU'RE WILLING TO PAY

48:24MORE FOR AN ITEM, THEY HAVE ALL

48:26OF THAT DATA COLLECTED ON YOU

48:27TO ACTUALLY PUSH THAT FORWARD.

48:28A LOT OF THESE COMPANIES

48:30CONSUME AS MANY AS 2000

48:32DIFFERENT DATA POINTS ON

48:33CUSTOMERS TO AGGREGATE THIS AND

48:35GIVE YOU YOUR OWN INDIVIDUAL

48:37SPECIFIC PRICE. SO OUR DISCOUNT

48:42SURVEILLANCE PRICING, I THINK

48:43COUPONS IS A BIG QUESTION THAT

48:45WE HAVE IN THIS POLICY THAT I

48:46WANT TO ADDRESS. THIRD DEGREE

48:48PRICE DISCRIMINATION HAS ALWAYS

48:50BEEN ALLOWED. IT'S NOT

48:52SURVEILLANCE PRICING, EVEN IF

48:53PERSONAL INFORMATION IS

48:55INVOLVED. SO WE'VE ALWAYS HAD

48:57THINGS LIKE SENIOR STUDENT OR

48:58VETERAN DISCOUNTS THAT ARE IN

49:00THE FORM OF COUPONS. AND THOSE

49:02ARE PERMISSIBLE BECAUSE THEY

49:03ARE PUBLICLY ADVERTISED. SO

49:05EVERYONE HAS ACCESS TO THIS

49:07BROAD CONSUMER SEGMENTS CAN

49:09ACCESS THIS WITHOUT HAVING

49:10THEIR INDIVIDUAL DATA SCRUBBED

49:12AND ADDED INTO A DATA SET TO BE

49:15GIVEN TO THEM. SO THE REASON

49:18THAT THESE TYPES OF DISCOUNTS

49:19AND COUPONS WORK IS BECAUSE

49:20THERE'S TRANSPARENCY TO WHO

49:21THEY ARE GIVEN TO AND WHY, AND

49:23THEY'RE EQUALLY APPLIED, WHICH

49:25IS VERY DIFFERENT FROM WHAT WE

49:26SEE WITH THESE RETAILERS WHO

49:28ARE AGGREGATING PEOPLE'S DATA.

49:31SO THE QUESTION IS THAT

49:33PERSONAL DATA SHOULD DECIDE

49:34WHETHER YOU QUALIFY FOR A

49:35PUBLIC OFFER, BUT NOT HOW MUCH

49:37YOU INDIVIDUALLY GET. THIS IS

49:40JUST A SLIDE. I WON'T GO

49:42THROUGH EACH INDIVIDUAL EXAMPLE,

49:43BUT IT SHOWS THE DIFFERENT

49:44OFFERINGS THAT WERE GIVEN TO

49:45DIFFERENT PEOPLE BASED ON THEIR

49:47OWN DATA, EXPERIENCES,

49:50BACKGROUND, ETC. AND THE PRICES

49:51THAT THEY'RE WILLING TO

49:52TOLERATE. AND I THINK THAT'S

49:53IMPORTANT FOR US TO TAKE A LOOK

49:55AT. SO SURVEILLANCE,

49:57DISCOUNTING IS ANOTHER FORM OF

49:59FIRST DEGREE PRICE

50:00DISCRIMINATION WHERE RETAILERS

50:01ENGAGE IN SURVEILLANCE PRICING,

50:03BUT IT'S PRESENTED AS A

50:04DISCOUNT. SO PEOPLE TEND TO NOT

50:05FIGHT IT AS MUCH BECAUSE THEY

50:07DON'T REALIZE THAT TECHNICALLY

50:08SOMEONE ELSE COULD BE GETTING A

50:09BETTER DISCOUNT OR A WORSE

50:10DISCOUNT BASED ON WHO THEY ARE

50:12AND WHAT DATA THE COMPANY HAS

50:14ON THEM. AND THAT'S DISTRIBUTED

50:15ON AN INDIVIDUAL BASIS WITH

50:16THEIR PERSONAL DATA. SO THE

50:20QUESTION FOR ME IN THIS POLICY

50:21IS, DO WE REGULATE INDIVIDUAL

50:23DO WE REGULATE INDIVIDUALIZED

50:25SURVEILLANCE DISCOUNTS? AND I

50:27THINK MY OPINION IS THAT, YES,

50:28WE DO HAVE TO REGULATE THAT AS

50:30WELL, BECAUSE IT IS BASED ON

50:32PERSONAL DATA. SO WHEN EVERY

50:34INDIVIDUAL IN A MARKET IS

50:35OFFERED A DIFFERENT DISCOUNT

50:37BASED ON THEIR WILLINGNESS AND

50:38ABILITY TO PAY, THAT MEANS THAT

50:41THAT DISCOUNT RETAILERS CAN

50:43SHOW ANY PRICE AS THE BASE

50:45PRICE AND OFFER DISCOUNTS BASED

50:46ON EACH CONSUMER'S ABILITY TO

50:47PAY. THAT'S A FORM OF PRICE

50:50DISCRIMINATION THAT I WANT TO

50:52MAKE SURE IS ACCOUNTED FOR HERE.

50:54SO THE BENEFITS OF REGULATING

50:56SURVEILLANCE DISCOUNTING

50:57INCLUDE PROTECTING PRICES THAT

50:58ARE PREDICTABLE, TRANSPARENT

51:00AND FAIR. HERE IS ANOTHER

51:05EXAMPLE OF WHAT DIFFERENT WHAT

51:08THE SAME SHOPPERS ARE GETTING

51:09FOR THE SAME PRODUCT. SO UNDER

51:13THE ZIMMERMAN ONE OPTION, AN

51:16APP THAT SHOWS YOU SOMETHING

51:17FOR $6.49 FOR AN ITEM ANOTHER

51:20SHOPPER MIGHT SEE FOR $5.99

51:23UNDER COUNCILOR ZIMMERMAN'S

51:25ORDINANCE, IT'S BANNED, BUT

51:26HARD TO CATCH. THERE'S NO

51:27RECORDS OF DUTY, NO GUARANTEE

51:29OF ENFORCEMENT. WITH MY

51:31AMENDMENTS, IT'S BANNED AND

51:32ENFORCEABLE. A RETAIL PRICE

51:34CANNOT BE BASED ON PERSONAL

51:36DATA UNDER THE ORIGINAL

51:39ORDINANCE. IF THERE'S ANOTHER

51:40EXAMPLE, YOU AND YOUR NEIGHBORS

51:42SEE DIFFERENT PRICES WHEN WHEN

51:43CAUGHT, THE COMPANY CALLS IT

51:45PRICING TEST. UNDER THE CURRENT

51:48ORDINANCE, IT'S NOT VERY

51:49CLEARLY BANNED. ONLY A PRICE

51:50BASED ON YOUR PERSONAL DATA IS

51:52COVERED. AND THE COMPANY WILL

51:53SAY A PRICING TEST IS NOT UNDER

51:56MY AMENDMENTS. IT IS BANNED.

51:58THERE ARE DIFFERENT PRICES FOR

52:00DIFFERENT SHOPPERS, DIFFERENT

52:01PRICES FOR DIFFERENT SHOPPERS.

52:03WHETHER THE REASON IS YOUR DATA

52:04OR A COIN FLIP IS ALL BANNED.

52:07UNDER THE THIRD EXAMPLE, THE

52:08SHELF PRICES FOR 99. THE APP

52:10SHOWS YOU 5.99. WITH A DOLLAR

52:13OFF, YOU PAY 4.99, WITH OTHERS

52:16PAYING FOR 49. UNDER THE

52:18CURRENT ORDINANCE THAT'S EXEMPT,

52:20INDIVIDUAL CONSUMERS CAN BE

52:21OFFERED DIFFERENT DISCOUNTS OR

52:23DIFFERENT PRICES. UNDER MY

52:25AMENDMENTS, THAT IS ALSO BANNED.

52:27SO SURVEILLANCE DISCOUNTING IS

52:28NOT PERMITTED FOR THE REASONS

52:29THAT WE WENT OVER EARLIER. AND

52:31MY LAST EXAMPLE, YOU GET 50%

52:34$0.50 OFF AND YOUR NEIGHBOR

52:35GETS $1 OFF THE SAME ITEM

52:37BECAUSE THE MODEL SAYS THAT

52:38YOU'LL PAY MORE. THE CURRENT

52:40ORDINANCE EXEMPTS IT BY TEXT

52:42DISCOUNTS TO A CONSUMER THROUGH

52:45A VOLUNTARY LOYALTY PROGRAM

52:48UNDERMINE THAT'S BANNED AS WELL,

52:50BECAUSE WE HAVE SEEN THAT

52:52CERTAIN STATES ARE VIEWING THIS

52:54VOLUNTARY DATA SHARING AS A

52:56LOOPHOLE THAT RETAILERS ARE

52:57ABLE TO USE TO CONTINUE TO

52:59COLLECT PEOPLE'S DATA. THIS

53:02GIVES INTO MORE EXAMPLES OF

53:04WHAT OUR AMENDMENTS DO. BUT

53:07BASICALLY, I AM JUST GOING

53:08THROUGH LINE BY LINE AND

53:09STRENGTHENING SOME OF THE

53:10LANGUAGE AND MAKING SURE THAT

53:12THERE AREN'T LOOPHOLES THAT

53:14RETAILERS CAN USE TO CONTINUE

53:15COLLECTING PEOPLE'S DATA. SO I

53:20WILL LET FOLKS JUST READ

53:21THROUGH THAT ON THEIR OWN TIME,

53:22BECAUSE I WANT TO MAKE SURE

53:23WE'RE NOT TAKING UP TOO MUCH

53:25TIME HERE. SO I WANT TO TALK

53:29ABOUT WHAT STAYS THE SAME VERY

53:30QUICKLY IN THIS AMENDMENT LIST.

53:32THE AMENDMENTS DEMOCRATIZE AND

53:33PROTECT DISCOUNTS WHILE

53:34OFFERING PROTECTIONS TO

53:35CONSUMERS FROM SURVEILLANCE

53:37DISCOUNTS. SO PEOPLE WHO ARE

53:38SENIORS, STUDENTS, TEACHERS,

53:40VETERANS AND YOUTH CAN STILL

53:41GET DISCOUNTS, COUPONS, SALES,

53:45PRICE MATCHING AND REBATES.

53:46EVERYONE CAN STILL GET THOSE.

53:49LOYALTY AND REWARDS PROGRAMS

53:50ARE STILL PERMISSIBLE AS LONG

53:52AS ALL MEMBERS ARE TREATED

53:54EQUALLY. CHEAPER DELIVERY WHEN

53:57YOU LIVE CLOSER TO THE STORE IS

53:59STILL AVAILABLE. PRICING ERROR

54:01CORRECTIONS AND CREDITS WHEN AN

54:03ORDER GOES WRONG. STILL

54:05AVAILABLE, AND ANY SALES,

54:06SEASONAL PRICES AND PRICES THAT

54:08RISE OR FALL FOR EVERYONE ARE

54:09ALSO STILL PERMISSIBLE. AND IF

54:13FOLKS WANT A LIST OF OUR

54:15RESEARCH THAT WE DID, WE ALSO

54:16SPOKE WITH A LOT OF CONSUMER

54:18JUSTICE ORGANIZATIONS TO GET

54:19SOME OF THEIR FEEDBACK ABOUT

54:20WHAT THEY'RE SEEING, SO YOU CAN

54:22GO THROUGH SOME OF THAT IF

54:23YOU'RE INTERESTED. I KNOW THAT

54:25SEATTLE, IN THEIR POLICY,

54:27THEY'VE BEEN WORKING WITH OVER

54:2840 ORGANIZATIONS TO HAVE THESE

54:30DISCUSSIONS. ANTITRUST LAW IS

54:32VERY COMPLICATED, AS WE RECALL,

54:34FROM THE AI PRICE FIXING BAN.

54:36AND SO I HOPE YOU'LL BEAR WITH

54:38ME AS WE GO THROUGH ALL OF THIS.

54:40BUT I'M VERY EXCITED ABOUT THIS

54:41AND LOOKING FORWARD TO

54:42COLLABORATING ON IT. THANK YOU.

54:46>> THANK YOU. COUNCILOR IS THAT

54:48PRESENTATION AVAILABLE TO BE

54:51POSTED SO THAT FOLKS CAN LOOK

54:53AT IT? AND IS IT CLEAR THAT IT

54:55COMES FROM YOUR OFFICE SO THAT

54:57ANYBODY PULLING IT UP ONLINE

54:59KNOWS THAT.

55:00>> IT WILL BE AVAILABLE TO BE

55:02POSTED? THEY'RE GOING TO POST

55:03IT RIGHT AFTER THIS COMMITTEE,

55:05AND WE CAN MAKE SURE THAT IT

55:07HAS OUR OFFICE'S INFORMATION IN

55:08CASE ANYONE HAS FURTHER

55:09QUESTIONS.

55:10>> GREAT. THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

55:11THANK YOU. ARE YOU FORMALLY

55:14MOVING THE AMENDMENT?

55:16>> YES. I WOULD LIKE TO MOVE

55:18THIS AMENDMENT PACKAGE FORWARD.

55:20WE CAN CALL IT MORILLO.

55:21>> ONE SECOND.

55:23>> OKAY. WITH A MOTION AND A

55:25SECOND, WE'RE NOW IN DISCUSSION

55:27TO THE AMENDMENT. IS THERE ANY

55:29DISCUSSION TO THE AMENDMENT?

55:36OKAY, I'LL JUMP IN WITH A

55:39QUESTION. THIS IS A QUESTION,

55:40ACTUALLY. COUNCILOR ZIMMERMAN,

55:42FOR YOU, ONE OF THE THINGS THAT

55:44COUNCILOR MORILLO SHOWED IN

55:46THOSE EXAMPLES THAT WE RAN

55:47THROUGH, THERE WERE SITUATIONS

55:49WHERE A CONSUMER COULD PAY A

55:51HIGHER PRICE THAN THE

55:52ADVERTISED PRICE OR THE LISTED

55:55PRICE BECAUSE THERE WAS A PRICE

55:56LISTED OR ADVERTISED, AND THEN

55:59A HIGHER PRICE SENT TO YOU ON

56:01AN APP WITH A DISCOUNT THAT'S

56:02STILL PUT IT HIGHER. DOES YOUR

56:05UNDERLYING AND I, I'M SORRY, I

56:06JUST WASN'T ABLE TO FIND IT

56:08GOING THROUGH QUICKLY. SO I'M

56:09HOPING YOU CAN DIRECT ME MORE

56:11QUICKLY THAN I CAN FIND IT

56:12MYSELF. DOES YOUR UNDERLYING

56:15SPECIFY THAT DISCOUNTS. THAT

56:20THAT AN ADVERTISED PRICE MUST

56:22BE THE SAME, OR THAT DISCOUNTS

56:23MUST BE TAKEN FROM AN

56:25ADVERTISED PRICE? I'M WONDERING

56:27IF THOSE SCENARIOS ARE ACTUALLY

56:29POSSIBLE UNDER THE UNDERLYING

56:31LANGUAGE.

56:33>> THANK YOU STAFF. WEIGH IN

56:35HERE IF YOU HAVE IT. BUT I

56:37THINK THAT WHERE THAT QUESTION

56:38IS MOST PERFECTLY ADDRESSED IS

56:40PROBABLY IN THE NEW F THAT WE

56:41JUST ADOPTED. RETAIL PRICE

56:42MEANS THE THEN CURRENT PRICE OF

56:44A GOOD OFFERED TO A CONSUMER

56:45PRIOR TO THE APPLICATION OF A

56:47LOYALTY OR MEMBERSHIP, PRICING,

56:49PROMOTIONS, LIMITED TIME SALES

56:50DISCOUNTS AND FEES FOR PREMIUM

56:53OR ADDITIONAL FEATURES.

56:55>> OKAY, SO. WITH F, THANK YOU

56:58BECAUSE I THOUGHT I HAD SEEN

57:00SOMETHING HERE AND COULDN'T

57:01FIND IT. OKAY. OFFERED TO A

57:11CONSUMER. SO YOU DON'T TALK

57:15ABOUT ADVERTISED PRICES AT ALL.

57:16BUT WE DO WITH F START TO GET

57:18AT THOSE CONCERNS. IT LOOKS

57:20LIKE.

57:22>> IF I MAY LOOK ZACK WITH

57:24COUNCILOR ZIMMERMAN, FOR THE

57:25RECORD, THE QUESTION THAT YOU

57:28HAD, WE HAD EARLIER VERSIONS

57:30THAT TALKED ABOUT ADVERTISED

57:32PRICING AND AND STUFF ALONG THE

57:34LINES WITH THAT. BUT WHAT WE

57:36WANTED TO GET AT HERE WITH

57:37INCLUDING THE DEFINITION FOR

57:38THE RETAIL PRICE, AND IT

57:40DIFFERS FROM COUNCILOR MORILLO

57:42AMENDMENT IN THAT OUR

57:43DEFINITION OF RETAIL PRICE

57:45TALKS ABOUT IT BEFORE THERE'S

57:46ANY SORT OF APPLIED DISCOUNTS,

57:48ANY PROMOTIONAL FEES, ANYTHING

57:49LIKE THAT. SO IT'S KIND OF THE

57:51BASELINE. AND WE FOUND THAT WAS

57:53IMPORTANT. AND WE HEARD

57:54FEEDBACK THAT IT WAS IMPORTANT

57:55TO SET A STARTING POINT FOR THE

57:58CONVERSATION. SO THERE ISN'T A

58:00SORT OF LOGICAL LOOP OF TRYING

58:01TO FIGURE OUT WHAT THE RETAIL

58:03PRICE IS. AND THAT IS IMPORTANT,

58:05ESPECIALLY AROUND THE DYNAMIC

58:07PRICING RESTRICTION THAT WE

58:08TALK ABOUT, MAKING SURE THAT

58:09THAT IS THE PRICE THAT CAN ONLY

58:11INCREASE ONCE A CALENDAR DAY.

58:12>> GOT IT. OKAY. THANK YOU.

58:14THAT'S REALLY HELPFUL.

58:15UNDERSTANDING HOW IT TIES INTO

58:15THAT PIECE. COUNCILOR ZIMMERMAN

58:18GO RIGHT AHEAD.

58:20>> CHAIR, I WAS WONDERING,

58:22SINCE WE HAD TWO OF OUR INVITED

58:24EXPERT TESTIMONY, I I'M

58:27DIGESTING THIS IN REAL TIME AS

58:28MUCH AS YOU ALL ARE. AND I'M

58:31I'M INTERESTED IF YOU WOULD

58:32ENTERTAIN THEM COMING BACK TO

58:33THE DAIS TO. I'D LIKE TO

58:36UNDERSTAND THEIR TAKE ON BOTH

58:37OF THESE OR FROM BOTH OF THEM.

58:39>> I WOULD BE HAPPY TO HAVE

58:40THEM COME BACK UP. MR.

58:42SALVAGGIO MISS DALTON, IF

58:44EITHER OF YOU HAVE FEEDBACK ON

58:46THIS THAT YOU'D LIKE TO SHARE.

58:47>> CAN WE ALSO HAVE ATTORNEY

58:49MATT GANDER COME UP?

58:51>> LET'S HEAR FROM THESE TWO

58:53INDIVIDUALS, AND THEN I'M HAPPY

58:54TO HAVE THE ATTORNEY COME UP AS

58:55WELL. YEAH. I THINK THIS

58:58REQUEST WAS TO HEAR FROM THE

59:00SPEAKERS, HAPPY TO MAKE SURE WE

59:02CAN HEAR FROM THE ATTORNEY NEXT.

59:07I'M GUESSING IF WE'RE ALL JUST

59:08SEEING THIS, THAT YOU ARE AS

59:10WELL. BUT IF YOU HAVE ANY

59:11INITIAL THOUGHTS ON HOW THIS

59:13WOULD WORK ON THE GROUND FROM

59:17EITHER OF YOUR PERSPECTIVES,

59:18THAT WOULD BE GREAT. MR.

59:20SALVAGGIO, DO YOU WANT TO START

59:21SINCE YOU SPOKE FIRST?

59:23>> SURE. THANK YOU, MADAM CHAIR.

59:25MEMBERS OF THE COMMITTEE AGAIN,

59:27FOR THE RECORD, MICHAEL

59:28SALVAGGIO, REPRESENTING UNITED

59:29FOOD AND COMMERCIAL WORKERS,

59:30LOCAL FIVE, FIVE, FIVE. I

59:33APOLOGIZE THAT I HAVEN'T HAD A

59:36SIGNIFICANT AMOUNT OF TIME TO.

59:39TO REVIEW THE MORILLO ONE

59:41AMENDMENTS, BUT. I DO WANT TO

59:46SAY, FIRSTLY, THAT I APPRECIATE

59:48COUNCILOR MORILLO. VERY ROBUST.

59:55ANALYSIS. I'M. I WOULD SAY THAT

1:00:01I'M A LITTLE CONCERNED IN THAT

1:00:08I. THERE'S A LOT TO UNPACK HERE

1:00:14BECAUSE THERE'S SO MUCH MORE

1:00:15BEING ADDED, AND I WOULDN'T

1:00:18WANT TO GET INTO A SITUATION IN

1:00:21WHICH WE HAD MISSED A

1:00:25PARTICULARLY RELEVANT

1:00:27CROSS-REFERENCE EFFECTS, SUCH

1:00:29AS. THERE'S A REFERENCE TO, I

1:00:33THINK, IN HERE SOMEWHERE IN THE

1:00:39DEFINITIONS WHERE IT SAYS ANY

1:00:41BUSINESS OR AGENT THAT SELLS

1:00:43CONSUMER GOODS TO CONSUMERS,

1:00:44BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH.

1:00:46AND I GET EXACTLY WHAT THE

1:00:50POINT OF THAT IS AND THAT WE

1:00:52DON'T WANT A BUSINESS TO SAY,

1:00:53WELL, THAT WAS REALLY OUR THIRD

1:00:55PARTY AGENT THAT DID THAT. AND

1:00:56SO OUR HANDS ARE CLEAN. HAVING

1:00:58SAID THAT, IT BRINGS UP THE

1:01:00QUESTION FOR ME HOW MANY OTHER

1:01:03AREAS IN THE BUSINESS CODE

1:01:05DON'T HAVE OR AGENT AFTER THEM,

1:01:07AND YET ARE JUST GENERALLY

1:01:09ACCEPTED TO APPLY TO AGENTS?

1:01:12AND I WOULD NOT WANT TO LIST

1:01:14THAT HERE AND THEN CREATE AN

1:01:16IMPLICATION THAT PART OF THE

1:01:18BUSINESS CODE THAT DID NOT

1:01:20INCLUDE THAT DID NOT INCLUDE

1:01:22SUCH THIRD PARTY AGENTS. THAT'S

1:01:26AN EXAMPLE OF THE TYPE OF

1:01:27CROSS-REFERENCE THAT I WOULD

1:01:28NEED MORE TIME TO REALLY DIG

1:01:30INTO BEFORE HAVING A, A SOLID

1:01:35ANALYSIS. I WILL SAY GENERALLY

1:01:38WITH REGARD TO PRIVATE RIGHT OF

1:01:40ACTION, ALTHOUGH THERE ARE

1:01:43AREAS WHERE MY COLLEAGUE IN THE

1:01:46GROCERY INDUSTRY AND I AGREE,

1:01:49AND THERE ARE AREAS WHERE WE

1:01:50DISAGREE, WE WILL BE HAVING A

1:01:54VIBRANT BACK AND FORTH AT THE

1:01:55STATE LEVEL ON PRIVATE RIGHT OF

1:01:57ACTION, I'M SURE. AND I THINK

1:02:01THAT THAT IS WHERE WE WOULD

1:02:02RATHER HAVE IT, AS OPPOSED TO

1:02:04CREATING INDIVIDUALIZED RIGHTS

1:02:08OF ACTION FOR A NUMBER OF

1:02:10CITIES AND COUNTIES. SO AGAIN,

1:02:17THERE'S A LOT TO UNPACK HERE. I

1:02:18WOULD I WOULD NEED TO THINK

1:02:24VERY CAREFULLY ABOUT SOME OF

1:02:26THE UNINTENDED EFFECTS OF THIS,

1:02:28BUT ALSO THE SUBSECTION C

1:02:33EXEMPTIONS IN SECTION 28. OH 30.

1:02:38I THINK, INVOLVE A LOT OF

1:02:41UNPACKING. FOR EXAMPLE, WE WERE

1:02:42TALKING ABOUT CAN DISCOUNTS BE

1:02:46GIVEN TO PEOPLE BASED ON

1:02:48CERTAIN FACTORS THAT ARE MORE

1:02:49OR LESS THAN OTHER PEOPLE? AND

1:02:52INITIALLY IN SUBSECTION C, IT

1:02:53SAYS THAT THE RESTRICTIONS

1:02:57APPLY TO DISCOUNTS SO LONG AS

1:02:59DOT, DOT, DOT THEY'RE OF EQUAL

1:03:01VALUE TO ALL WHO QUALIFY. BUT

1:03:03THEN IN SUB SUB TWO, WE SEE

1:03:05WE'RE TIERED DISCOUNT PROGRAMS

1:03:08EXIST. AND IT SAYS THAT YOU CAN

1:03:13GIVE DIFFERENT TIERS OF

1:03:16DISCOUNTS BASED ON PRIOR

1:03:17PURCHASE HISTORY. I JUST

1:03:18FRANKLY DON'T KNOW HOW TO PARSE

1:03:19THAT WITHOUT BEING AN ATTORNEY

1:03:21AT THIS POINT. AND SO I THINK

1:03:23WE WOULD WANT TO TAKE THIS BACK

1:03:26AND, AND SUBJECT IT TO SOME

1:03:27MORE SCRUTINY BEFORE RENDERING

1:03:29A FINAL OPINION ON IT. BUT I

1:03:31WOULD RATHER HAVE THE PRIVATE

1:03:32RIGHT OF ACTION DISCUSSION IN

1:03:35SALEM.

1:03:38>> THANK YOU, MISS DALTON.

1:03:39>> CHAIR PIRTLE-GUINEY AND

1:03:40MEMBERS OF COMMITTEE AMANDA

1:03:42DALTON, ON BEHALF OF THE

1:03:42NORTHWEST GROCERY RETAILER

1:03:44ASSOCIATION. UNFORTUNATELY,

1:03:44WE'RE ALSO SEEING THIS IN A BIT

1:03:46OF REAL TIME, ACTUALLY NOT IN A

1:03:49BIT. WE REALLY ARE SEEING THIS

1:03:50IN REAL TIME. AND BUT I CAN

1:03:52SHARE A COUPLE OF THINGS,

1:03:53PRIMARILY BECAUSE IT LOOKS VERY

1:03:54SIMILAR TO THE LANGUAGE THAT

1:03:56CITY OF SEATTLE IS CONSIDERING

1:03:57RIGHT AT THIS MOMENT. AND SO I

1:03:59WILL ECHO MY CONCERNS THAT I

1:04:00HAVE BEEN ECHOING TO THAT

1:04:01COUNCIL FOR THE LAST THREE

1:04:03MONTHS, SPECIFICALLY THE MOST

1:04:05CONCERNING LANGUAGE IN THE

1:04:06PROPOSED AMENDMENT BEFORE YOU

1:04:08IS THE INCLUSION OF ON NEW C IN

1:04:14.03. OH, AND THIS REQUIREMENT

1:04:16THAT DISCOUNTS ARE PROVIDED OF

1:04:17EQUAL VALUE TO ALL WHO QUALIFY.

1:04:20THAT'S JUST NOT HOW LOYALTY

1:04:21PROGRAMS AND DISCOUNTS WORK. IF

1:04:23YOU PROVIDE EQUALLY TO ALL YOUR

1:04:25LOWERING PRICES FOR ALL, THAT'S

1:04:26NOT A DISCOUNT. THAT'S NOT A

1:04:27LOYALTY PROGRAM. THAT'S NOT A

1:04:28MEMBERSHIP PROGRAM. AS WE HAVE

1:04:30SAID TO THAT COUNCIL, THAT IS

1:04:31WAY THE WAY THAT THESE GROCERS

1:04:33STAY IN BUSINESS. THEY COMPETE

1:04:34AGAINST EACH OTHER. THAT'S HOW

1:04:36THESE LARGE UNION STORES

1:04:38COMPETE AGAINST NONUNION STORES.

1:04:40SO I WILL SAY SPECIFICALLY THAT

1:04:42LANGUAGE ALONE AND THE CHANGES

1:04:44PRESENTED IN THIS RED LINE,

1:04:45COMPARED TO THE CAREFULLY

1:04:46CRAFTED EXCEPTIONS IN ZIMMERMAN

1:04:48ONE, GIVE US IMMEDIATE,

1:04:51SIGNIFICANT CONCERN THAT I

1:04:52IMAGINE I COULD GET MUCH MORE

1:04:53FOR YOU ONCE IT'S KIND OF

1:04:55THROWN THROUGH THE ATTORNEYS

1:04:57REVIEWS. I CAN ALSO FLAG FOR

1:04:58YOU AS YOU CONTINUE TO GO

1:05:01FURTHER ON THE ENFORCEMENT AND

1:05:02PENALTIES. THERE'S A MASSIVE

1:05:03NEW RECORD KEEPING BURDEN.

1:05:05YOU'RE PUTTING ON SMALL AND

1:05:06LARGE GROCERS, THREE YEARS

1:05:09ATTACHED TO EVERY SINGLE

1:05:10DISCOUNT AND COUPON OUR STORES

1:05:12PROVIDE IS A MASSIVE RECORD

1:05:14KEEPING UNDERTAKING, ESPECIALLY

1:05:16WITH A NEW PRIVATE RIGHT OF

1:05:17ACTION WITH A $1 MILLION CAP.

1:05:19IT'S EXACTLY WHAT WE'RE LOOKING

1:05:20AT. AT THE CITY OF SEATTLE, YOU

1:05:22PUT $1 MILLION CAP ON EVERY

1:05:23SINGLE PRODUCT IN OUR STORES

1:05:25WITHOUT GIVING US THE

1:05:26OPPORTUNITY TO CURE. AND AGAIN,

1:05:28I WANT YOU TO KEEP IN MIND,

1:05:29THIS IS LANGUAGE YOU'RE LOOKING

1:05:30AT. SEATTLE CITY OF SEATTLE IS

1:05:32LOOKING AT THE SAME. SEATTLE'S

1:05:34EXEMPTED SMALL GROCERS UNDER 20

1:05:35STORES. YOU HAVE NO SIMILAR

1:05:38EXCEPTION. AND WHAT YOU'RE

1:05:39LOOKING AT RIGHT NOW. SO YOU

1:05:40ARE LOOKING AT A LARGE PRIVATE

1:05:42RIGHT OF ACTION ON EVERY SINGLE

1:05:43RETAILER, REGARDLESS OF SIZE.

1:05:46AND GIVEN THAT YOU SCROLL DOWN

1:05:48TO THE BOTTOM PRIVATE RIGHT OF

1:05:49ACTION, I READ THAT VERY

1:05:51QUICKLY AS PRIVATE RIGHTS OF

1:05:52ACTION ARE ALLOWED TO BE

1:05:54PURSUED, EVEN IF THE CITY FOUND

1:05:56NO VIOLATION TO HAVE OCCURRED

1:05:58IN SUB ONE. AND THEN I SEE A

1:06:00DIFFERENT STATUTORY MINIMUM FOR

1:06:02A VIOLATION THE CITY DID FIND.

1:06:03SO THAT ESSENTIALLY IS A DOUBLE

1:06:05ENFORCEMENT ALLOWING A PRIVATE

1:06:08RIGHT OF ACTION, A CIVIL

1:06:09LAWSUIT TO BE PURSUED AGAINST

1:06:10THE GROCER, SEPARATE FROM A

1:06:12CITY FINDING. AND SO I THINK

1:06:14THAT THAT'S BY FAR PUNITIVE.

1:06:15AND THEN LASTLY, AND PROBABLY

1:06:17MOST SIGNIFICANTLY, YOU HEARD A

1:06:18LOT FROM US ABOUT THIS EARLIER.

1:06:20IT COMPLETELY STRIKES OUT THE

1:06:22PREEMPTION AND MAKES THIS

1:06:24STANDALONE AND THEN RUN COUNTER

1:06:26TO ANYTHING THAT'S BEEN ADOPTED

1:06:27AT THE STATEWIDE, PUTTING YOUR

1:06:29PORTLAND AREA GROCERS AT A

1:06:31SIGNIFICANT DISADVANTAGE IN

1:06:33COMPLYING WITH BOTH AT THE SAME

1:06:34TIME. AND SO WE WOULD ASK YOU

1:06:36NOT TO CONSIDER AND ADOPT THIS

1:06:38AMENDMENT TODAY.

1:06:39>> THANK YOU. CHAIR. I'M GOING

1:06:42TO LISTEN TO THE REST OF THE

1:06:43QUESTIONS, BUT I APPRECIATE

1:06:45THAT'S IT FOR MY QUESTIONS

1:06:46RIGHT NOW.

1:06:46>> THANK YOU, CHAIR.

1:06:47>> SINCE THIS WAS ABOUT MY

1:06:49AMENDMENTS, CAN I RESPOND TO

1:06:50ANY OF THAT OR NO? ALSO, I DO

1:06:52WANT TO CLARIFY THAT COMMITTEE

1:06:54IS THE PLACE TO BRING

1:06:55AMENDMENTS.

1:06:55>> SO I WAS GOING TO SAY THAT

1:06:58COUNCILOR RYAN WAS IN THE QUEUE

1:07:00NEXT.

1:07:01>> I NEEDED TO HEAR.

1:07:02>> THOSE THAT WERE IN SUPPORT.

1:07:04>> OKAY, SO COUNCILOR MORILLO.

1:07:05>> YOU, I SAW THIS.

1:07:07>> YOU ARE NEXT IN THE QUEUE,

1:07:09SO WHY DON'T WE TURN IT TO YOU?

1:07:11AND YOU ARE WELCOME TO ASK ANY

1:07:13ADDITIONAL QUESTIONS OF OUR

1:07:13GUESTS AS WELL.

1:07:15>> OKAY, SO THERE WAS A LOT

1:07:17SAID. FIRST OF ALL, MR.

1:07:18SALVAGGIO, REALLY APPRECIATE

1:07:20YOU GUYS WORKING ON THIS. AND I

1:07:21THINK YOU'RE RIGHT, THERE IS A

1:07:23LOT TO UNPACK BECAUSE ANTITRUST

1:07:25LAW IS HORRIFICALLY COMPLICATED,

1:07:27AND I FEEL LIKE ME AND MY TEAM

1:07:29BECAME EXPERTS IN IT AS WE

1:07:32WORKED ON THE PRICE FIXING

1:07:33ORDINANCE A FEW MONTHS AGO. SO

1:07:34I'M VERY INTERESTED IN THIS

1:07:36AREA OF POLICY REGARDING

1:07:39COUNCILOR PIRTLE-GUINEY

1:07:40QUESTION ON REFERENCE PRICE AND

1:07:42THE ZIMMERMAN ONE DEFINITION,

1:07:44IT'S PER PERSON. SO THE QUOTE

1:07:46IS OFFERED TO A CONSUMER. YOUR

1:07:49RETAIL PRICE AND YOUR NEIGHBORS

1:07:50CAN DIFFER. SO THERE'S NOTHING

1:07:52TO COMPARE YOURS TO. EVERY REAL

1:07:54BASELINE IS DEFINED AGAINST THE

1:07:56PUBLIC. SO IN IN OTHER SPACES,

1:07:59IT'S ADVERTISED TO THE PUBLIC

1:08:00ON A REGULAR BASIS. NEW YORK

1:08:02SAYS OPENLY AND ACTIVELY

1:08:03OFFERED TO THE PUBLIC. NEW

1:08:05JERSEY'S VERSION SAYS REGULAR

1:08:07COURSE OF BUSINESS. IT'S THE

1:08:09NUMBER BEFORE THE DISCOUNT. SO

1:08:12WHAT WE HAVE HERE IS, IS THAT

1:08:14IT'S SECRET. NOTHING IN THE

1:08:17CURRENT UNDERLYING ORDINANCE

1:08:19REQUIRES THE RETAIL PRICE TO BE

1:08:20POSTED, DISCLOSED, OR RECORDED.

1:08:22IT EXISTS ONLY IN THE COMPANY'S

1:08:24SYSTEM. SO THE BASELINE IS

1:08:25WHATEVER THE RETAILER SAYS IT

1:08:27IS. I. I WOULD ALSO SAY THAT AS

1:08:31FAR AS THE CONCERN ABOUT SMALL

1:08:33RETAILERS, SMALL AND

1:08:34INDEPENDENT RETAILERS DON'T

1:08:36HAVE THE COMPLEX DATA MINING

1:08:38OPERATIONS THAT COMPANIES LIKE

1:08:39KROGER USE TO DO INDIVIDUALIZED

1:08:42DISCOUNTING AND ARE AT A

1:08:43SUBSTANTIAL DISADVANTAGE TO

1:08:45LARGER COMPETITORS, COMPETITORS

1:08:47THAT USE DATA TO SET THEIR

1:08:48PRICES BASED ON WHAT THEY KNOW

1:08:50ABOUT YOU AND YOUR PREFERENCES

1:08:51AS A CONSUMER. SO THE RESULT OF

1:08:53THAT IS THAT SMALL RETAILERS

1:08:56EITHER LOSE OUT OR THEY FEEL

1:08:58COMPELLED TO SELL THROUGH

1:08:59ONLINE PLATFORMS AND THIRD

1:09:00PARTY PRICING SERVICES THAT

1:09:02PRICE DISCRIMINATE, DENYING

1:09:04THEIR ABILITY TO INDEPENDENTLY

1:09:05PRICE GOODS AND SERVICES. SO

1:09:08THE REASON WE ARE DOING THIS IS

1:09:11IT DOES ACTUALLY PROTECT SMALL

1:09:13RETAILERS. IT'S MUCH BETTER FOR

1:09:14THEM. AND WE ARE PUSHING FOR

1:09:16THE PRIVATE RIGHT OF ACTION

1:09:18BECAUSE EXHIBIT A BARRED, ANY

1:09:21PRIVATE RIGHT OF ACTION. THE

1:09:23CITY WILL NOT SEE MOST OF THIS.

1:09:25THE OVERCHARGED SHOPPER IS THE

1:09:27ONE WITH THE RECEIPT. SEATTLE'S

1:09:29MAYOR'S OFFICE TO ITS COUNCIL

1:09:32SAID THIS IS A VIOLATION THAT

1:09:33WILL HAVE DIFFERENT LEVELS OF

1:09:35VISIBILITY. SO A PRIVATE RIGHT

1:09:36OF ACTION AS AN ACCOUNTABILITY

1:09:38MECHANISM IS AN IMPORTANT PART

1:09:39OF THIS IMPLEMENTATION PROCESS.

1:09:45I AND I'M REALLY HAPPY TO

1:09:46ENGAGE MORE WITH FOLKS ON

1:09:49DISCOUNTING AND LOYALTY TERMS.

1:09:50BUT TO START, EVERY COMPARATOR

1:09:53SAYS THE SAME THING. NEW YORK

1:09:55SAYS, QUOTE, OFFERED UNIFORMLY

1:09:57TO ANY CONSUMER. NEW JERSEY

1:09:59OFFERED TO BASED UPON THOSE

1:10:02CONDITIONS, ETC. THERE'S A LOT

1:10:04OF DIFFERENT STATES THAT ARE

1:10:05PASSING POLICIES AROUND THIS.

1:10:06SO WHAT I'M OFFERING IS

1:10:07ACTUALLY MORE IN LINE WITH

1:10:09WHAT'S BEING DONE IN OTHER

1:10:10PLACES AS WELL. THANKS.

1:10:12>> THANK YOU, COUNCILOR.

1:10:15>> COUNCILOR, SIR, WAS THAT A

1:10:17QUESTION?

1:10:19>> I'M NOT SURE.

1:10:21>> I DON'T I THINK THAT WAS A

1:10:23STATEMENT, NOT A QUESTION.

1:10:25COUNCILOR. DID YOU WANT A WAS

1:10:26THAT A QUESTION? DID YOU WANT A

1:10:28RESPONSE FROM OUR GUESTS?

1:10:30>> NO, NO. I JUST APPRECIATION

1:10:32FOR YOU BEING HERE. AND YEAH, I

1:10:34THINK THAT THIS IS A LOT TO DIG

1:10:35INTO. AND I'M GLAD THAT WE HAVE

1:10:37COMMITTEES TO DO THAT WHEN.

1:10:38>> OKAY.

1:10:39>> COUNCILOR RYAN.

1:10:40>> THANK YOU, CHAIR, AND THANK

1:10:42YOU, COUNCILOR ZIMMERMAN, FOR

1:10:43BRINGING OVERARCHING. I HAVE

1:10:45BEEN FOLLOWING THIS. AND WHAT I

1:10:46REALLY APPRECIATED IS HOW

1:10:48YOU'RE WORKING WITH INDUSTRY SO

1:10:49THAT THIS COULD ACTUALLY BE

1:10:51IMPLEMENTED. I LIKE THAT IT'S

1:10:53PROACTIVE FOR CONSUMERS. AND SO

1:10:56ANYWAY, I WAS ALL THERE. I DID

1:11:00HAVE A PAUSE LIKE OTHERS THAT

1:11:02JUST SAW THIS IN THIS MEETING

1:11:04AND THAT THAT I HAD CAUTION.

1:11:08AND SO I APPRECIATE THAT THE

1:11:10THOSE WHO ARE CLOSEST TO THE

1:11:11IMPACT ARE, ARE SHARING THEIR

1:11:15POINT OF VIEW ON THE ITEM. SO I

1:11:18HEARD ENOUGH TO KNOW THAT I

1:11:20WON'T BE SUPPORTING THE

1:11:21AMENDMENT TODAY, BUT I'M

1:11:22EXCITED TO SUPPORT THE

1:11:24OVERARCHING THE AMENDMENT THAT

1:11:25WE'RE DISCUSSING NOW. THANKS.

1:11:29>> THANK YOU. COUNCILOR

1:11:32COUNCILOR MORILLO. I'M GOING TO

1:11:33GO TO COUNCILOR AVALOS. SHE

1:11:35HASN'T SPOKEN YET. GO RIGHT

1:11:36AHEAD, COUNCILOR AVALOS.

1:11:39>> THANK YOU. OKAY. TRYING TO

1:11:44PARSE OUT WHAT MY QUESTIONS ARE.

1:11:54I THINK WHAT I'M WANTING TO

1:11:56UNDERSTAND IS, I THINK WHERE

1:11:59I'M GETTING MYSELF CONFUSED,

1:12:00I'M LIKE TRYING TO REACT TO THE

1:12:02AMENDMENT. BUT THEN SOME OF MY

1:12:04QUESTION MIGHT BE TO THE

1:12:05UNDERLYING. SO I'M JUST GOING

1:12:06TO ASK AND SEE WHERE IT LANDS.

1:12:08OKAY. SO AS IT RELATES TO

1:12:12SURVEILLANCE VERSUS DYNAMIC

1:12:14PRICING. I GUESS I JUST WANT TO

1:12:18BETTER UNDERSTAND. LIKE WHAT

1:12:23WE'RE REGULATING, RIGHT? SO

1:12:24WE'VE GOT IT SEEMS LIKE THERE'S

1:12:27TWO SEPARATE THINGS,

1:12:28SURVEILLANCE, PRICING AND

1:12:31DYNAMIC PRICING, RIGHT? AND SO

1:12:33FOR THE DYNAMIC SIDE, A

1:12:35RETAILER CAN CHANGE A PRICE

1:12:37BECAUSE OF SUPPLY AND DEMAND

1:12:39INVENTORY, ETCETERA. SO AND

1:12:45EVERY CUSTOMER IS SEEING THE

1:12:46SAME PRICE UNDER DYNAMIC

1:12:48PRICING. SO WHAT IS THE

1:12:50CONSUMER PROTECTION, I GUESS,

1:12:53RATIONALE FOR THE CITY LIMITING

1:12:54HOW FREQUENTLY THAT PRICE CAN

1:12:55INCREASE? I'M JUST TRYING TO

1:12:56UNDERSTAND THE THE IN A DAY

1:12:58PART WHAT THAT MEANS.

1:13:00>> THAT IS A GREAT QUESTION. SO

1:13:02I'M ALSO I'M GOING TO ANSWER IT

1:13:03FIRST. AND THEN IF STAFF IF I

1:13:04MISS ANYTHING, PLEASE WEIGH IN.

1:13:06SO THE GREAT QUESTION BECAUSE

1:13:09WE ALL UNDERSTAND THAT USING

1:13:12THE GROCERY STORE IDEA THAT

1:13:13SOMETHING MIGHT HAVE TO MOVE.

1:13:15RIGHT? YOU GOT A PRODUCT, IT'S

1:13:17TIME TO MOVE IT. YOU KNOW,

1:13:18YOU'VE GOT LIKE A TOMATOES NEED

1:13:20TO BE MOVED, MOVING PRICES MAKE

1:13:22SENSE OR THAT YOU'RE COMING UP

1:13:25ON, YOU KNOW, AT THE END OF THE

1:13:27DAY, YOU LIKE TO DISCOUNT

1:13:28THINGS TO GET THEM OUT. OKAY.

1:13:30GOT THAT DYNAMIC PRICING IN AND

1:13:32OF ITSELF IS NOT AN OVERARCHING

1:13:35CONCERN. DYNAMIC PRICING, WHILE

1:13:37SURVEILLANCE BECOMES PART OF

1:13:38THE MARKET BECOMES A CONCERN,

1:13:40MEANING IF DYNAMIC PRICING

1:13:43OCCURS BASED ON THE USE OF

1:13:45SURVEILLANCE, THAT'S WHERE I

1:13:46THINK WE GET INTO THE THE

1:13:48POSSIBILITY OF THE, OF THE, OF

1:13:50THE UNFAIR PRACTICE. SO BY

1:13:53DEFINING WHAT DYNAMIC PRICING

1:13:55IS AND LIMITING THE NUMBER OF

1:13:56TIMES A DAY THAT AN ITEM CAN

1:13:58CHANGE PRICES MEANS THAT EVEN

1:14:01IF SURVEILLANCE WAS PRESENT,

1:14:02EVEN THOUGH WE'RE BANNING IT,

1:14:03IF IT WAS PRESENT, YOU'RE

1:14:05PREVENTING THAT EXPLOITATIVE

1:14:07THING OF DYNAMIC BASED ON THE

1:14:08INDIVIDUAL INSTEAD OF DYNAMIC

1:14:09BASED ON THE MARKET. AND WHAT

1:14:11WE'RE TRYING TO DO IS MAKE SURE

1:14:12THAT PRICING IS NOT BASED ON

1:14:14THE INDIVIDUAL AND THE USE OF

1:14:15THEIR PII. WHEN THEY WALK

1:14:17THROUGH THE STORE. THEY ARE TWO

1:14:18DIFFERENT THINGS, BUT THEY DO

1:14:20GO HAND IN HAND. THE MAJORITY

1:14:22OF THIS IS REALLY ABOUT THE

1:14:23SURVEILLANCE PART, BUT YOU'RE

1:14:26HITTING A KIND OF WHERE THE TWO

1:14:27ITEMS KIND OF MATCH UP. AND I

1:14:29WILL SAY JUST IN THE PUBLIC

1:14:30SPHERE, THESE WORDS GET USED

1:14:32INTERCHANGEABLY QUITE A LOT,

1:14:33WHICH IS PART OF WHY WE DEFINE

1:14:35IT. LUKE OR DAN, DO YOU HAVE

1:14:36ANYTHING TO ADD HERE?

1:14:37>> YEAH, JUST TO SPEAK A LITTLE

1:14:39BIT MORE AROUND THE WHY ONCE A

1:14:41DAY AND LIMITING HOW OFTEN, YOU

1:14:43KNOW, WHEN WE THINK OF DYNAMIC

1:14:44PRICING, WE OFTEN THINK OF

1:14:45THINGS LIKE CONCERT TICKETS

1:14:46GOING UP, WHEN THERE'S LOWER

1:14:48SUPPLY OF IT, OR THE COST OF

1:14:50WATER GOING UP WHEN A HURRICANE

1:14:52HITS THAT SORT OF THING. BUT WE

1:14:54THINK THAT THERE'S A

1:14:55POSSIBILITY HERE WHERE USING

1:14:56THAT DYNAMIC PRICING COULD BE

1:14:57USED. EXPLOITATIVELY IF THE

1:15:01RETAILERS START TO LOOK AT THAT

1:15:03SURVEILLANCE INFORMATION AND

1:15:04KNOW WHAT KIND OF CONSUMERS,

1:15:06WHAT DEMOGRAPHICS, WHICH INCOME

1:15:08LEVELS ARE SHOPPING, WHEN AND

1:15:09MIGHT BE ABLE TO CHARGE, YOU

1:15:11KNOW, A DIFFERENT PRICE FROM 10

1:15:14A.M. TO 2 P.M. WHEN SOMEONE WHO

1:15:16HAS MORE FLEXIBILITY OR MORE

1:15:18INCOME MIGHT BE ABLE TO SHOP,

1:15:19VERSUS A PRICE THAT HAPPENS

1:15:21AFTER TYPICAL RETAIL HOURS. AND

1:15:23SO WE WANTED TO MAKE SURE THAT

1:15:24WE'RE NOT BEING OVERLY

1:15:25PRESCRIPTIVE, BUT WE'RE DOING

1:15:26WHAT WE CAN TO KEEP REGULAR

1:15:28PRICE SETTING PRACTICES AND

1:15:30MAKING SURE THERE'S NOT AN

1:15:31EXTRA LOOPHOLE FOR EXPLOITATION

1:15:32THERE.

1:15:34>> AND COUNCILOR APOLOGIES. MY

1:15:36NAME IS DANIEL LUCA WITH

1:15:38COUNCILOR ZIMMERMAN'S OFFICE.

1:15:39JUST TO ADD DYNAMIC PRICING, I

1:15:41THINK, YOU KNOW, WE THINK OF IT

1:15:43AS PURELY EXTERNAL. SO

1:15:45CLASSICALLY THAT WOULD APPLY TO

1:15:46LIKE THE WEATHER, LIKE, LET'S

1:15:47SAY LIKE THERE'S A SUDDEN HEAT

1:15:49WAVE AND THEY WANT TO APPLY AND

1:15:51THERE'S A DESIRE TO CHARGE MORE

1:15:52FOR WATER OR, YOU KNOW, ICE

1:15:55CREAM AS AN EXAMPLE, THAT WOULD

1:15:57BE SOMETHING THAT'S NOT BASED

1:15:59ON PII, THAT'S BASED PURELY ON

1:16:00EXTERNAL FACTORS. AND SO THAT'S

1:16:03WHY THERE DOES NEED TO BE SOME

1:16:05ELEMENT FOR THE CITY TO STEP IN

1:16:07AND PREVENT THAT FROM BEING

1:16:08EXPLOITED TO.

1:16:12>> OKAY. SO THEN TO COUNCILOR

1:16:20MORILLO AS IT RELATES TO YOUR

1:16:22AMENDMENT. SO I, I THINK I

1:16:26UNDERSTAND YOUR AMENDMENT AS

1:16:28FAR AS LIKE YOUR POLICY INTENT,

1:16:30BUT MAYBE COULD YOU JUST TELL

1:16:32ME A LITTLE BIT MORE ABOUT WHAT

1:16:34YOU SAW IN THE ORIGINAL

1:16:35ORDINANCE THAT'S MAKING YOU

1:16:36FEEL THESE ADDITIONAL

1:16:37PROTECTIONS WERE NECESSARY?

1:16:38JUST TELL ME A LITTLE MORE OF

1:16:40THAT JUST SO I CAN UNDERSTAND.

1:16:42AND THEN I HAVE SOME SPECIFIC

1:16:43QUESTIONS.

1:16:45>> YEAH, THANKS FOR THAT

1:16:46QUESTION. I THINK THE BONES

1:16:48HERE ARE GOOD. IT'S JUST, AGAIN,

1:16:50THIS IS A VERY MEATY TOPIC, AND

1:16:53I AM A LITTLE BIT CONCERNED

1:16:54THAT PEOPLE, I THINK, FRANKLY,

1:16:57CAN BARELY DEFINE SOME OF THE

1:16:59THINGS THAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT.

1:17:00AND THEY'RE CLEARLY READY TO

1:17:01VOTE THIS THROUGH WHEN THEY

1:17:03DON'T HAVE A FULL GRASP OF THIS.

1:17:05LIKE, I'M A LITTLE FRUSTRATED

1:17:06THAT WE ALWAYS TALK ABOUT

1:17:07COMMITTEES AS BEING A PLACE TO

1:17:09TALK THROUGH AMENDMENTS. AND

1:17:10THEN WE'RE, WE'RE RESISTANT TO

1:17:12SOME OF THAT, THAT UPDATING THE

1:17:16ORDINANCE AS WRITTEN RIGHT NOW

1:17:18DOES NOT ACTUALLY ADDRESS

1:17:19SURVEILLANCE PRICING AS IT

1:17:20OPERATES IN PRACTICE. THAT IS

1:17:22THE CONCERN THAT I HAVE. SO THE

1:17:24EXTENT. SO TO THE EXTENT THAT

1:17:27WE'RE INTERESTED IN ENGAGING

1:17:28WITH THAT REALITY, WE NEED TO

1:17:30HAVE ADDITIONAL DISCUSSIONS.

1:17:32THAT'S JUST THE REALITY OF IT.

1:17:33WE'RE ALSO AT RISK OF MOVING

1:17:35OUT OF ALIGNMENT WITH WHAT THE

1:17:36STATE IS WORKING ON RIGHT NOW.

1:17:39AND I THINK THAT WE DO NEED TO

1:17:41BE IN ALIGNMENT. I THINK WE

1:17:42EITHER NEED TO HAVE LIKE A WORK

1:17:44GROUP HERE TO REALLY DIG INTO

1:17:45SOME OF THE MEAT OF THIS, OR WE

1:17:48NEED TO TRY TO JOIN A STATE

1:17:49WORK GROUP AS WELL TO MAKE SURE

1:17:51THAT WE'RE INFLUENCING THAT

1:17:52POLICY. BUT TO, TO, TO RUSH

1:17:56THROUGH SOME OF THIS WITHOUT A

1:17:58FULL UNDERSTANDING OF, OF IT

1:17:59LACKING THE ENFORCEMENT

1:18:00MECHANISM IS CONCERNING TO ME.

1:18:02WHAT THE AMENDMENT DOES IS THAT

1:18:03IT CLOSES THE LOOPHOLE THAT

1:18:05ACTUALLY ALLOWS DISCOUNTING

1:18:08BASED ON PEOPLE'S PERSONAL DATA.

1:18:11WE DO HAVE ATTORNEY MATT GANDER

1:18:12HERE AS WELL. IF PEOPLE WANT TO

1:18:14ASK A LITTLE BIT MORE QUESTIONS

1:18:16ABOUT SOME OF THE DIFFERENCES,

1:18:17I.

1:18:17>> WAS GOING TO SAY THAT

1:18:18BECAUSE YOU ASKED FOR HIM

1:18:20EARLIER AND THEN HE DIDN'T COME

1:18:21UP, SO MAYBE HE COULD HE COME

1:18:23UP SO WE COULD GET SOME MORE

1:18:25INFORMATION. SINCE HE'S SAYING

1:18:26HE HELPED WITH DRAFTING THESE.

1:18:27>> SO HAPPY TO HAVE HIM COME UP

1:18:29IF YOU HAVE QUESTIONS FOR HIM.

1:18:30COUNCILOR. I THINK IT HAD

1:18:32SOUNDED LIKE COUNCILOR MORILLO

1:18:33HAD WANTED HIM TO BUT THEN

1:18:34DIDN'T ASK DURING HER HER TIME.

1:18:37SO.

1:18:38>> OKAY.

1:18:39>> ANDREW, WELCOME.

1:18:40>> THANK YOU. OKAY, SO THE

1:18:44LOOPHOLE, SAY ONE MORE TIME.

1:18:45THE LOOPHOLE YOU'RE CLOSING IS

1:18:47YOU BELIEVE THAT AS WRITTEN

1:18:48WITHOUT THIS AMENDMENT, IT

1:18:49DOESN'T ACTUALLY BAN

1:18:51SURVEILLANCE PRICING. I'M

1:18:53OVERSIMPLIFYING, BUT IS THAT

1:18:54WHAT I'M HEARING YOU SAY? AND

1:18:55THEREFORE, COULD I ASK WHAT IS

1:18:58THE LEGAL CHANGE, HOW YOU'RE

1:18:59CLOSING THE LOOPHOLE.

1:19:03>> MATT GANDER.

1:19:04>> MATT GANDER.

1:19:05>> DEPUTY CITY ATTORNEY I THINK

1:19:07THE DIFFERENCE IS WHETHER OR

1:19:10NOT YOU WANT TO REGULATE THE

1:19:14USE OF PERSONAL DATA IN

1:19:16DISCOUNT PROGRAMS AND THE

1:19:18EXTENT TO WHICH YOU WANT TO

1:19:20REGULATE THAT. AND JUST TO GET

1:19:22IT OUT OF THE WAY, WE'VE

1:19:24ADVISED THAT THESE ARE BOTH

1:19:26LEGALLY DEFENSIBLE AND HAVE THE

1:19:28SAME LEGAL RISK PROFILE. SO

1:19:29RIGHT NOW WE'RE HAVING A POLICY

1:19:32DISCUSSION.

1:19:35>> THANK YOU. YEAH, I THINK I

1:19:39I'M ALSO STRUGGLING JUST WITH

1:19:41THE CONCEPT OF LIKE HOW WE DO

1:19:44THIS WORK IN COMMITTEE, RIGHT?

1:19:45BECAUSE OBVIOUSLY COUNCILOR

1:19:47MORILLO IS BRINGING FORWARD A

1:19:49LEGITIMATE, YOU KNOW, POLICY

1:19:52SUGGESTION TO THIS POLICY.

1:19:55WE'RE ALL DIGESTING IT AND

1:19:56TRYING TO FIGURE OUT, YOU KNOW,

1:19:58WHAT IS THE ULTIMATE, I GUESS,

1:19:59INTENT WE'RE TRYING TO

1:20:01ACCOMPLISH WITH THE POLICY. AND

1:20:03SO, YEAH, I DON'T KNOW HOW TO

1:20:06I'M CONCERNED ABOUT LIKE JUST

1:20:08BEING LIKE, I DON'T HAVE ANY

1:20:09OTHER LIKE SPECIFIC QUESTIONS,

1:20:10BUT I WANT TO TALK THIS OUT AND

1:20:12KIND OF HEAR WHERE EVERYONE'S

1:20:13AT. IF PEOPLE ARE JUST GOING TO

1:20:15RUSH THROUGH AND JUST NOT VOTE

1:20:17FOR IT. SO I THINK I'M, I'M

1:20:18STALLING A LITTLE BIT BECAUSE

1:20:20I'M LIKE, CAN WE HAVE A

1:20:21DISCUSSION? I DON'T WANT THIS

1:20:23TO JUST BE AN UP OR DOWN VOTE.

1:20:24LIKE I ACTUALLY WANT TO TALK

1:20:26ABOUT THE POLICY OUTCOMES THAT

1:20:27BOTH ARE TRYING TO ACCOMPLISH

1:20:29SO THAT I CAN WEIGH WHERE I

1:20:30LAND. SO I GUESS LIKE AS CHAIR,

1:20:32I JUST WANT TO KNOW, HOW CAN WE

1:20:34FACILITATE THIS IN A WAY THAT

1:20:36IT DOESN'T JUST BECOME, LET'S

1:20:37JUST VOTE ON IT AND BE DONE

1:20:38WITH IT? BECAUSE PERSONALLY,

1:20:40I'M VERY INTERESTED IN THE

1:20:41CONCEPTS THAT ARE BEING

1:20:42INTRODUCED IN THIS AMENDMENT,

1:20:43BUT I WANT TO TALK IT OUT, AND

1:20:45I WANT TO HEAR WHAT PEOPLE'S

1:20:46CONCERNS ARE. AND I'D RATHER

1:20:47WORKSHOP THAT HERE IN THE

1:20:49COMMITTEE WHERE WE'RE TOLD

1:20:50WE'RE SUPPOSED TO. SO THAT'S

1:20:51WHERE I'M AT.

1:20:52>> THANK YOU. COUNCILOR I DON'T

1:20:53THINK ANYBODY HAS SIGNALED YET

1:20:54WHERE THEY'RE AT ON THIS. SO. I

1:20:56THINK YOU'VE GOT A LOT MORE

1:20:58FOLKS IN THE QUEUE STILL.

1:20:59HOPEFULLY WE CAN HAVE SOME OF

1:21:00THAT CONVERSATION HERE. I KNOW

1:21:02I GOT A COUPLE THINGS I WANT TO

1:21:05FLOAT AS WELL. COUNCILOR

1:21:07MORILLO YOU WERE NEXT IN THE

1:21:08QUEUE. YOU JUST LEFT THE QUEUE.

1:21:10DID YOU WANT TO?

1:21:12>> YEAH. WELL, I DON'T THINK

1:21:13THAT'S TRUE BECAUSE I THINK

1:21:14SOME FOLKS SAID I'VE HEARD FROM

1:21:16TWO PEOPLE, SO I'M DONE

1:21:17CONSIDERING THE AMENDMENT ON

1:21:18THE TABLE. AND I TAKE THAT VERY

1:21:21SERIOUSLY IN A POLICY

1:21:23DISCUSSION. I DO. BUT I GUESS

1:21:26TO CLARIFY WHAT COUNCILOR

1:21:27AVALOS IS SAYING OR QUESTIONING,

1:21:30TO ANSWER YOUR QUESTION, THE

1:21:32DIFFERENCE THAT WE HAVE IN

1:21:33THESE POLICIES IS THAT

1:21:37DIFFERENTIAL DISCOUNTS ARE

1:21:39INDIVIDUAL PRICING, BECAUSE

1:21:40WHEN IT'S BASED ON PERSONAL

1:21:42DATA. SO IF YOU HAVE A PAPER

1:21:44COUPON THAT JUST SAYS ALL

1:21:46VETERANS GET THIS DISCOUNT,

1:21:48EVERYONE IS GETTING THAT SAME

1:21:49DISCOUNT. BUT THE DIFFERENCE IS

1:21:50THAT WHEN THEY ARE COLLECTING

1:21:52YOUR DATA AND AGGREGATING IT

1:21:54BASED ON DIFFERENT THINGS, AND

1:21:56YOU ARE ONLY SEEING THAT

1:21:58DISCOUNT, YOU THINK THAT YOU'RE

1:21:59GETTING THE FULL DISCOUNT, BUT

1:22:00YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT YOUR

1:22:01NEIGHBOR IS GETTING. SO IT'S

1:22:03STILL DIFFERENTIAL, EVEN IF

1:22:04IT'S BASED ON SOME SORT OF

1:22:05IDENTITY FACTOR, LIKE BEING A

1:22:08SENIOR, BEING A VETERAN, THAT

1:22:10TYPE OF THING. SO THAT'S THE

1:22:12LOOPHOLE THAT I'M TRYING TO

1:22:13CLOSE WITH THIS AMENDMENT,

1:22:15BECAUSE THIS IS STILL

1:22:17SURVEILLANCE PRICING. IT'S JUST

1:22:20SURVEILLANCE PRICING WITHIN A

1:22:21LOYALTY PROGRAM.

1:22:25>> LUCKILY, COUNCILOR ZIMMERMAN,

1:22:26YOU'RE NEXT IN THE QUEUE.

1:22:29>> SO I THINK THIS IS A REALLY

1:22:31HELPFUL PART OF THE DISCUSSION

1:22:32IN TERMS OF HOW WE CRAFTED SOME

1:22:35OF THE THOUGHTS HERE. RIGHT. SO

1:22:37I AM A VETERAN. I WILL GO TO

1:22:41CERTAIN PLACES AND I WILL BE

1:22:43GIVEN THAT DISCOUNT, THAT WHAT

1:22:45IS IMPORTANT IN THAT IS THAT

1:22:47THERE ARE PLENTY OF PLACES THAT

1:22:48I GO WHERE I DON'T IDENTIFY

1:22:51MYSELF AS A VETERAN. AND SO

1:22:53THEN THEY HAVE NO WAY OF

1:22:54KNOWING THAT I'M A VETERAN. AND

1:22:56SO I DON'T GET THAT DISCOUNT.

1:22:58WHAT I'M HIGHLIGHTING HERE IS

1:22:59THAT I'VE CHOSEN RIGHT. IF I GO

1:23:02TO HOME DEPOT OR LOWE'S, THOSE

1:23:03ARE TWO PLACES WHERE I SEEM TO

1:23:05USE MY VETERANS DISCOUNT. I

1:23:07HAVE ENTERED INTO A PROGRAM TO

1:23:10RECEIVE THAT. THEY ARE AWARE OF

1:23:11THAT INFORMATION ONLY BECAUSE I

1:23:13TOLD THEM ABOUT IT, AND I. SO

1:23:15THAT'S WHERE I THINK THAT WE'RE

1:23:16ACTUALLY BUTTING UP AGAINST. I

1:23:19DON'T THINK THAT THAT QUALIFIES

1:23:20AS SURVEILLANCE BECAUSE I

1:23:22SUPPLIED IT. NOW, IF I WALKED

1:23:23IN AS MUCH AS I WOULD LIKE TO

1:23:25GET A DISCOUNT JUST BECAUSE I

1:23:26WALKED IN, I THINK IT'S KIND OF

1:23:28GROSS THAT THEY COULD KNOW THAT

1:23:30I WAS A VETERAN WITHOUT TELLING

1:23:31THEM. AND WHAT MY ORDINANCE

1:23:34DOES HERE AND WHAT THE

1:23:35AMENDMENTS MIGHT WHAT THE WHAT

1:23:37THE ORDINANCE DOES WITHOUT

1:23:38AMENDMENTS IS IT PROTECTS

1:23:39AGAINST THAT. AND THAT IS THE

1:23:41NATURE OF PERSONALLY

1:23:42IDENTIFIABLE INFORMATION, WHICH

1:23:44IS YOU, AS ANY CONSUMER, CAN

1:23:46CHOOSE WHAT YOU ASK TO

1:23:49PARTICIPATE IN, BUT YOU

1:23:50SHOULDN'T BE PUT INTO THAT

1:23:52SITUATION WITHOUT YOUR OWN,

1:23:55YOUR YOUR OWN VOLUNTEERING OF

1:23:56THAT STATUS. AND I THINK THAT

1:23:58THAT'S AN IMPORTANT PART. SO

1:24:02FOR THAT, WE DISCUSSED THAT

1:24:03QUITE A LOT, WHICH IS WHY, WHY

1:24:05DOES THIS, WHY IS THIS

1:24:07IMPORTANT? AND WHERE I'VE

1:24:08LANDED AS A POLICYMAKER IS MY

1:24:10ABILITY TO VOLUNTARILY TAKE OUT

1:24:12THE SAFEWAY REWARDS PROGRAM, MY

1:24:13ABILITY TO VOLUNTARILY SAY, I

1:24:15AM A SENIOR, EVEN IF I LOOK OLD,

1:24:18MY ABILITY TO VOLUNTARILY SAY I

1:24:20AM A VETERAN IS VERY DIFFERENT

1:24:24THAN AUTOMATIC APPLICATION. AND

1:24:26I THINK THAT'S WHAT AT THE

1:24:27HEART OF THIS IS WHAT WE'RE

1:24:28GETTING AT. I WANTED TO, AND

1:24:33JUST IN TERMS OF. SOME OF THE

1:24:39ADVISING AND THE CONVERSATIONS

1:24:40THAT WE HAD, I'M JUST CURIOUS,

1:24:41MR. SELVAGGIO, WHY? YOU KNOW,

1:24:43WE'VE SEEN LANGUAGE FROM OTHER

1:24:45STATES, AND I'M KIND OF CURIOUS.

1:24:47WE MADE SOME CHOICES. YOU GUYS

1:24:49ADVISED ON SOME THINGS. WHAT

1:24:50ARE SOME OF THE REASONS THAT

1:24:51THAT WE DIDN'T MAYBE LOOK AT OR

1:24:54USE THE LANGUAGE FROM OTHER

1:24:55STATES AFTER OUR LEARNING FROM

1:24:56THEM?

1:24:56>> SURE. THANK YOU, MADAM CHAIR.

1:24:58MEMBERS OF THE COMMITTEE.

1:25:01THAT'S A GOOD QUESTION BECAUSE

1:25:02OBVIOUSLY I THINK EVERYONE HERE

1:25:06THAT'S INVOLVED IN THIS,

1:25:08YOURSELVES INCLUDED, HAVE

1:25:09PROBABLY SPOKEN WITH SOME OUT

1:25:11OF STATE EXPERTS AND PEOPLE

1:25:15THAT HAVE BEEN WORKING ON THIS,

1:25:17AS HAVE WE, AND WE FIND IT VERY,

1:25:20VERY IMPORTANT TO GATHER THOSE

1:25:23THOSE CONCEPTS, THOSE THOUGHTS,

1:25:25THOSE EXPERIENCES. BUT THEN

1:25:27ALSO REMEMBER THAT WHEN WE WHEN

1:25:31WE DRAFT, WE TRY NOT TO, TO CUT

1:25:33AND PASTE FROM OTHER STATES

1:25:35BECAUSE AS THE EFFECT OF TERMS

1:25:39OF ART CAN VARY WIDELY FROM

1:25:42STATE TO STATE. AND SO, FOR

1:25:44EXAMPLE, WHEN I. AND I COULD BE

1:25:46WRONG, BUT I THINK I HEARD

1:25:47COUNCILOR MORILLO REFERRED TO

1:25:49THE WORD A CONSUMER AS OPPOSED

1:25:52TO ANY CONSUMER. OREGON'S

1:25:56OREGON'S LEGISLATIVE DRAFTING

1:25:58MANUAL HAS INSTRUCTIONS AS

1:26:01GRANULAR AS IT MAY SEEM, THAT

1:26:04EXPRESSLY EQUATE THE WORD A IN

1:26:06THAT PARTICULAR CIRCUMSTANCE TO

1:26:08THE. EQUATE IT TO THE WORD

1:26:10EVERY OR ANY. AND NEW YORK, AS

1:26:14FAR AS I CAN TELL, DOES NOT

1:26:16HAVE SUCH AN INSTRUCTION. AND

1:26:19SO THAT'S JUST A. TO HIGHLIGHT

1:26:22THE FACT THAT WHAT MEANS ONE

1:26:24THING IN ONE STATE MAY NOT MEAN

1:26:26ANOTHER THING IN ANOTHER STATE

1:26:27OR ANOTHER JURISDICTION. AND SO

1:26:32I SEE THE THE CURRENT ZIMMERMAN

1:26:36ONE DRAFT AS I THINK PROBABLY

1:26:40MORE. SOLID, I WOULD SAY, IN

1:26:46TERMS OF, OF, OF THOSE

1:26:48PROTECTIONS, IN TERMS OF

1:26:50LOYALTY PROGRAMS, AS A. AS A

1:26:55WORKAROUND, WE WHOLEHEARTEDLY

1:26:57AGREE THAT THERE NEEDS TO BE

1:26:59SOME KIND OF LASSO AROUND WHAT

1:27:01A LOYALTY PROGRAM IS. WE CAN'T

1:27:02JUST HAVE. EXEMPTIONS CREATED

1:27:07AND THEN CALLED LOYALTY

1:27:08PROGRAMS. BUT TO THE EXTENT

1:27:11THAT A CONSUMER IN OREGON,

1:27:14MEANING EVERY OR ANY CONSUMER

1:27:15CAN WALK IN TO FRED MEYER,

1:27:17WHETHER YOU'RE WEARING A BARREL

1:27:18AND SUSPENDERS OR WHETHER

1:27:19YOU'RE STRUTTING IN WITH A

1:27:20DIAMOND TIPPED CANE AND TOP HAT,

1:27:22YOU'RE STILL GOING TO GET THAT

1:27:23SAME LITTLE RED CARD. AND

1:27:25THAT'S GOING TO GIVE YOU THE

1:27:27SAME TERMS AS ANYONE ELSE. NOW,

1:27:30IF I'M MR. MONOPOLY, I'M

1:27:32PROBABLY GOING TO ACCRUE SALES

1:27:33THAT GET TO MY $5 DISCOUNT A

1:27:36LOT QUICKER THAN IF THAN IF I'M

1:27:38NOT. BUT THE, THE EQUITY OF

1:27:43TERMS DOES NOT NECESSARILY

1:27:44GUARANTEE AN EQUITY OF OUTCOMES

1:27:46UNDER THOSE TERMS, BUT FROM,

1:27:50FROM OUR PERSPECTIVE AND. AND

1:27:54OUR OPINION, AS LONG AS THOSE

1:27:57TERMS ARE BEING DISTRIBUTED

1:27:59EQUITABLY AND AS LONG AS WE ARE

1:28:01BASING THESE. THESE DISCOUNTS

1:28:06FROM THE KIND OF LODESTONE OF

1:28:09THE ESTABLISHED RETAIL PRICE,

1:28:11WHICH IS WHAT'S ADVERTISED TO

1:28:13CONSUMERS FEEL. FEEL MUCH, MUCH

1:28:18MORE. CONFIDENT IN THAT IN THAT

1:28:23APPROACH.

1:28:23>> AND CHAIR PIRTLE-GUINEY AND

1:28:25COUNCILOR ZIMMERMAN, IF I MAY.

1:28:27SO TO DATE, FOUR STATES HAVE

1:28:29PASSED THIS. MARYLAND,

1:28:31CONNECTICUT DON'T TAKE EFFECT

1:28:32UNTIL OCTOBER. SO THERE'S A LOT

1:28:34OF UNKNOWN ABOUT THE POLICY

1:28:35BEFORE YOU. NEW JERSEY AND NEW

1:28:37YORK, WHICH IS STILL WAITING

1:28:39FOR ITS GOVERNOR TO SIGN, I

1:28:40BELIEVE AS OF MONDAY LAST WEEK.

1:28:43YOU KNOW, THOSE ARE A LOT

1:28:44COMING ONLINE. I THINK WE ALSO

1:28:46LEARN A LOT FROM WHAT HASN'T

1:28:48HAPPENED. COLORADO'S

1:28:50LEGISLATION WAS VETOED BY THEIR

1:28:52GOVERNOR, SPECIFICALLY CITING

1:28:54CONCERNS ABOUT THE IMPACT ON

1:28:55AFFORDABILITY, COUPONS, LOYALTY

1:28:57PROGRAMS, MANUFACTURER COUPONS.

1:28:59THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA JUST

1:29:01SPENT SIX MONTHS ON THIS POLICY.

1:29:03AND ON THE EVE BEFORE THEY

1:29:04ADJOURNED, IT DIED AND DID NOT

1:29:06ADVANCE TO THE SENATE FLOOR ON

1:29:08A CONCURRENCE VOTE,

1:29:09SPECIFICALLY FROM THE DEMOCRAT

1:29:11CHAIR OF THE PRIVACY COMMITTEE,

1:29:12CITING CONCERNS AROUND

1:29:13AFFORDABILITY AND ITS IMPACT ON

1:29:15COUPONS AND LOYALTY PROGRAMS.

1:29:17SO THIS IS NOT SOMETHING THAT

1:29:18WE TAKE LIGHTLY. IT IS

1:29:20SOMETHING THAT WE DO VERY

1:29:21INTENTIONALLY AND THOUGHTFULLY.

1:29:23SO I WOULD URGE THAT SIMILAR

1:29:24CAUTION AND CONCERN AS YOU

1:29:26APPROACH THESE ISSUES. AND I

1:29:27WILL ALSO SHARE. MR. SALVAGGIO

1:29:28AND I ARE BOTH AT THE OREGON

1:29:30TABLE. IT HAS ONLY HAD ONE

1:29:32MEETING. IT HAS HAD 60 MINUTES

1:29:33OF CONVERSATION. THERE IS NO

1:29:34DRAFT. THERE IS NO SPECIFICS. I

1:29:37KNOW THAT REPRESENTATIVE CHOSEN

1:29:40WELCOMES ENGAGEMENT. I KNOW

1:29:41THAT COUNCILOR ZIMMERMAN HAS

1:29:42HAD THOSE CONVERSATIONS. HE'S

1:29:43LOOKING TO WHAT PORTLAND IS

1:29:45DOING. HE'S WATCHING WHAT WE'RE

1:29:46DOING, AND I THINK WE'LL TAKE

1:29:48THAT INTO CONSIDERATION. AND SO

1:29:50URGE YOU TO CONTINUE TO ENGAGE

1:29:51AT THAT STATEWIDE LEVEL AS WELL.

1:29:53>> THANK YOU. WITH RESPECT TO,

1:29:57THERE WAS A POINT MADE ABOUT

1:29:59ADVERTISED PRICE EARLIER. AND

1:30:01JUST TO NOTE, YOU KNOW, WHEN WE

1:30:02SAY WE WROTE THINGS WITH

1:30:04ATTORNEYS, MR. GANDER AND NAOMI

1:30:06SHEFFIELD BOTH WORKED ON ON

1:30:07THIS WITH US. THIS MAY BE THE

1:30:09MOST LAWYERED ORDINANCE I'VE

1:30:11EVER PARTICIPATED IN. SO WE

1:30:13ALSO, OF COURSE, HAVE GONE

1:30:14THROUGH MANY MACHINATIONS OF

1:30:15THIS. BUT I JUST WANT TO NOTE

1:30:17IN TERMS OF ADVERTISED, THAT

1:30:18THE ADVICE THAT WE GOT WAS THAT

1:30:20THE REMOVAL OF ALL RESTRICTIONS

1:30:21THAT HAD TO DO WITH, QUOTE,

1:30:23ADVERTISED WAS DUE TO COMPELLED

1:30:25SPEECH, FIRST AMENDMENT

1:30:27CONCERNS. AND SO THAT DID COME

1:30:28UP. I WANTED TO ADDRESS THAT A

1:30:30LITTLE BIT. I AM I AM LISTENING

1:30:34TO THESE TO THIS DISCUSSION.

1:30:36AND THIS IS A LARGE, LARGE,

1:30:37LARGE AMENDMENT. AND SO THIS IS

1:30:39A HELPFUL CONVERSATION BETWEEN

1:30:41ALL FIVE. AND I WILL CONTINUE

1:30:44TO TO DO THAT. AND ONCE

1:30:47COMPLETE, YOU KNOW, DECIDE

1:30:48WHERE I'M AT ON IT. BUT I THINK

1:30:51THE POINT WE JUST HEARD,

1:30:52COLLEAGUES, IS ONE THING I

1:30:53WOULD LIKE TO REMIND YOU ABOUT

1:30:55WITH RESPECT TO WHAT COULD

1:30:56HAPPEN AT THE STATE, I HOPE

1:30:59THAT WE ACT SO THAT WHEN THE

1:31:01STATE ACTS, IT CAN TAKE UP THE

1:31:03MANTLE OF THIS TYPE OF PRICING

1:31:05IN THE SERVICE INDUSTRY, NOT

1:31:07THE GOODS INDUSTRY, BECAUSE WE

1:31:08HAVE DONE SO GOOD AT THE GOODS

1:31:10INDUSTRY VERSION THAT THEY CAN

1:31:12LOOK AT OURS AND SAY, OKAY,

1:31:15HERE ARE THE COUPLE OF TWEAKS

1:31:17WE WOULD MAKE AT THE STATE. BUT

1:31:18GENERALLY PORTLAND GOT IT RIGHT,

1:31:19BECAUSE I THINK THE MORE

1:31:21EXPLOITIVE AND ALREADY IN

1:31:22EXISTENCE IS HAPPENING IN THE

1:31:25UBER AND AIRLINE AND HOTEL

1:31:27MARKETS THAT WE'RE NOT PREPARED

1:31:30TO TAKE ACTION ON THE STATE IS

1:31:32I THINK THAT THESE CAN BE

1:31:33COMPLEMENTARY. BUT ALSO, I

1:31:35THINK WHEN YOU HEAR ABOUT WHAT

1:31:37WILL GO ON AT THE STATE IS THAT

1:31:39IT'S VERY LIKELY WE'VE SEEN

1:31:40ALREADY OTHER STATES THAT I

1:31:41THINK HAVE SIMILAR LEGISLATIVE

1:31:44BENTS IS THAT IT MAY NOT COME

1:31:46TOGETHER, AND THEN WE WILL MISS

1:31:48ANOTHER FULL SESSION WHERE NO

1:31:50ACTION OCCURS. AND SO I DON'T

1:31:51WANT TO MUDDY THAT. AND I TAKE

1:31:53THOSE THOSE DIFFERENT STATE

1:31:55EXAMPLES PRETTY SERIOUSLY. SO

1:31:57I'LL HOLD FOR NOW, CHAIR AND

1:31:59HAPPY TO ANSWER OTHER QUESTIONS

1:32:00AS THEY COME UP. THANK YOU.

1:32:02>> THANK YOU COUNSELOR. I AM

1:32:04NEXT IN THE QUEUE. AND MR.

1:32:06CANDOR, I AM WONDERING IF YOU

1:32:08CAN HELP ME OUT ON THIS

1:32:10ADVERTISED PRICE ISSUE. I HAVE

1:32:12SOME THOUGHTS ON THE BROADER

1:32:15AMENDMENT AND APPROACH HERE,

1:32:17BUT ONE PIECE THAT COUNCILOR

1:32:18MORILLO SPOKE TO THAT STOOD OUT

1:32:20TO ME WAS WHETHER THE NEW

1:32:24DEFINITION. THE NEW WHAT NUMBER

1:32:27IS THAT NEW F RETAIL PRICE, THE

1:32:31THEN CURRENT PRICE KIND OF

1:32:33STARTS US OFF AT THAT

1:32:34ADVERTISED PRICE. AND COUNCILOR

1:32:36ZIMMERMAN JUST SHARED THAT YOU

1:32:37HAD HAD CONCERNS OVER THAT

1:32:39LANGUAGE. I'M WONDERING IF

1:32:41THERE'S ANYTHING THAT YOU CAN

1:32:42SHARE ABOUT THE MEANING OF THEN

1:32:46CURRENT PRICE IN THE NEW F

1:32:48RETAIL PRICE DEFINITION TO HELP

1:32:50ME UNDERSTAND WHETHER WE'RE

1:32:52STARTING PEOPLE AT THE SAME

1:32:54BASELINE THAT YOU'RE THEN

1:32:56GETTING SOME LEVEL OF DISCOUNT

1:32:58POTENTIAL FROM, OR WHETHER THAT

1:33:00STILL ALLOWS FOR A DIFFERENT

1:33:02BASELINE FOR DIFFERENT

1:33:04CONSUMERS.

1:33:05>> SURE.

1:33:07>> SO IF YOU LOOK AT THE

1:33:10DEFINITION OF SURVEILLANCE

1:33:12PRICING, IT USES THE PHRASE

1:33:14RETAIL PRICE, RIGHT? AND IT

1:33:16ESTABLISHES HOW OR WHAT ONE

1:33:19CANNOT DO IN CALCULATING A

1:33:23RETAIL PRICE. AND SO. TO

1:33:28MINIMIZE FIRST AMENDMENT RISK,

1:33:30WE HAVE ADVISED THAT YOU SHOULD

1:33:33FOCUS ON THE TERMS OF THE

1:33:34TRANSACTION, RIGHT. THE THE

1:33:36PRICE THAT IS OFFERED TO A

1:33:38CONSUMER AND FOCUS ON

1:33:40REGULATING THAT THE THE ACTUAL

1:33:42ECONOMIC TRANSACTION. AND MAYBE

1:33:43YOU COULD SAY THAT THE

1:33:45ADVERTISED PRICE IS THE PRICE

1:33:46THAT'S OFFERED, BUT THE

1:33:48LANGUAGE WE'VE RECOMMENDED IS

1:33:50OFFERED, WHICH IS CONSISTENT

1:33:52WITH FIRST AMENDMENT RISK. SO

1:33:53IF YOU LOOK AT RETAIL PRICE

1:33:56THAT THAT DEFINES THE BASELINE

1:34:00PRICE THAT IS OFFERED TO

1:34:02CONSUMER, AS YOU'VE SAID. AND

1:34:03THEN THE THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN

1:34:05THE ORDINANCES IS THAT.

1:34:09COUNCILOR ZIMMERMAN HAS SAID,

1:34:11YOU YOU CANNOT DO SURVEILLANCE

1:34:14PRICING AND CALCULATING THAT

1:34:15BASELINE PRICE, BUT YOU CAN

1:34:19CONSIDER INFORMATION PARTICULAR

1:34:21TO THE CONSUMER AND CALCULATING

1:34:23DISCOUNTS AND PROMOTIONS AND

1:34:26FEES. RIGHT. AND COUNCILOR

1:34:27MORILLO AMENDMENT SAYS ALL OF

1:34:31THE THINGS THAT YOU CAN'T DO IN

1:34:33THE SURVEILLANCE PRICING

1:34:35DEFINITION, RIGHT? YOU CANNOT

1:34:36DO WHEN YOU'RE DETERMINING BOTH

1:34:39THE BASELINE PRICE OR THE

1:34:42DISCOUNTS OR THE FEES THAT ARE

1:34:44CHARGED TO CONSUMER UNLESS THEY

1:34:47FIT UNDER THE EXEMPTIONS.

1:34:50>> BUT YOU DIDN'T HAVE THE SAME

1:34:52CONCERN WITH ADVERTISED PRICE

1:34:55IN THE DEFINITION OF RETAIL

1:34:56PRICE IN THE AMENDMENT.

1:35:02>> WHICH AMENDMENT ARE YOU

1:35:03TALKING ABOUT?

1:35:04>> AYE, MORILLO ONE DEFINES

1:35:07RETAIL PRICE, INCLUDING THE

1:35:09PRICE AT WHICH A CONSUMER GOOD

1:35:12IS ADVERTISED. I KNOW THIS IS

1:35:14JUST A SMALL PIECE, BUT IT.

1:35:18SEEMS LIKE IT HAS A. IF THE

1:35:21DEFINITION MEANS SOMETHING

1:35:22DIFFERENT, IT SEEMS LIKE THAT

1:35:26HAS AN IMPACT.

1:35:27>> WHAT ARE YOU LOOKING AT?

1:35:29THIS IS.

1:35:30>> I'M LOOKING AT F.

1:35:34>> RETAIL PRICE.

1:35:37>> I WILL SAY WE WERE WORKING

1:35:39ON THIS DEFINITION KIND OF UP

1:35:40TO THE DEADLINE. SO I THINK

1:35:41IT'S A QUESTION FOR THE CARRIER

1:35:43ABOUT WHETHER OR NOT THEY WANT

1:35:45TO KEEP ADVERTISED IN THE

1:35:47DEFINITION FROM A LEGAL RISK

1:35:50PERSPECTIVE.

1:35:50>> OKAY.

1:35:51>> SO THE RISK IS THE SAME. I'M

1:35:52TRYING TO UNDERSTAND WHY THE

1:35:54LANGUAGE IN THE UNDERLYING IS

1:35:55WHAT IT IS. AND IT SOUNDED LIKE

1:35:58A CONCERN WAS RAISED THAT

1:35:59WASN'T RAISED IN AYE, MORILLO

1:36:01ONE. YOU HAD SAID THAT THEY

1:36:02WERE BOTH EQUALLY FINE. SO I

1:36:04WANTED TO UNDERSTAND THAT. SO

1:36:05IT SOUNDS LIKE YOU HAVE THAT

1:36:07CONCERN EITHER WAY.

1:36:09>> I THINK COMMERCIAL SPEECH IS

1:36:12DEFINED AS SPEECH THAT PROPOSES

1:36:13THE TERMS OF A TRANSACTION, AND

1:36:17WE ADVISE THAT WE SHOULD BE

1:36:20REGULATING THE PRICE THAT IS

1:36:21OFFERED TO CONSUMERS AS OPPOSED

1:36:24TO REGULATING OTHER TYPES OF

1:36:27SPEECH THAT HAPPENS IN THE

1:36:28MARKETPLACE.

1:36:29>> OKAY, COLLEAGUES, I CONTINUE

1:36:34AS WE GO THROUGH THIS DEBATE TO

1:36:38FEEL LIKE THERE'S THIS PROPOSAL

1:36:40BEFORE US, WHICH IS LOOKING AT.

1:36:46UPWARD PRESSURE ON PRICES,

1:36:48FUTURE TECHNOLOGY, MAKING SURE

1:36:50THAT WE DON'T GO DOWN A PATH

1:36:52THAT HAS NOT BEEN ENTERED HERE.

1:36:54AND THEN AN AMENDMENT THAT

1:36:57LOOKS AT DOWNWARD PRESSURE AND

1:37:00COUPONS AND A CURRENT PRACTICE

1:37:02AND COUNCILOR MORILLO. I'M

1:37:04REALLY INTERESTED IN US HAVING

1:37:06A BROADER CONVERSATION ABOUT

1:37:07THAT CURRENT PRACTICE, BUT I'M

1:37:10ALSO KIND OF INTERESTED IN

1:37:12GETTING THIS BAN ON A FUTURE

1:37:14PRACTICE OUT THE DOOR AS

1:37:15QUICKLY AS POSSIBLE. SO MY

1:37:19CURRENT INCLINATION IS TO SAY,

1:37:23LET'S MOVE THE UNDERLYING. AND

1:37:29LET'S COME BACK TO THIS

1:37:30QUESTION ABOUT WHETHER THERE

1:37:31ARE PROBLEMS WITH THE CURRENT

1:37:32PRACTICE, WHICH IS A LITTLE BIT

1:37:34DIFFERENT FROM THE UNDERLYING

1:37:37IN THE FUTURE. I'M ALSO LOOKING

1:37:39AT THE DEFINITIONS AND IN THE

1:37:42UNDERLYING PERSONAL DATA, RIGHT,

1:37:46DEFINED AS WE'VE TALKED ABOUT,

1:37:49SURVEILLANCE PRICING MEANS

1:37:51OFFERING OR FACILITATING THE

1:37:53OFFERING OF A RETAIL PRICE FOR

1:37:54CONSUMER GOODS THAT IS BASED ON

1:37:55PERSONAL DATA RESTRICTIONS.

1:38:00SURVEILLANCE PRICING IS NOT

1:38:03ALLOWED, RIGHT? A VENDOR MAY

1:38:04NOT ENGAGE IN SURVEILLANCE

1:38:05PRICING. SO WE ARE IN THE

1:38:12UNDERLYING MOVING FORWARD WITH

1:38:15BANNING SURVEILLANCE PRICING. I

1:38:17UNDERSTAND THERE ARE STILL

1:38:18QUESTIONS ABOUT DISCOUNT

1:38:19PROGRAMS, BUT I, LIKE I SAID, I

1:38:21KEEP COMING BACK TO THE IDEA

1:38:22THAT THAT IS A MUCH BROADER

1:38:26TOPIC

1:38:27>> AND WE NEED TO GET THIS BAN

1:38:29ON SURVEILLANCE PRICING OUT

1:38:32QUICKLY SO THAT WE'RE SIGNALING

1:38:34TO THE LEGISLATURE THAT WE'RE

1:38:36DOING THIS, WHETHER OR NOT THEY

1:38:40DO AS THEY MOVE FORWARD THIS

1:38:41FALL WITH DEVELOPING THEIR

1:38:43CONCEPT. SO THAT'S WHERE I

1:38:45CURRENTLY SIT. WE'VE GOT TWO

1:38:46MORE PEOPLE IN THE QUEUE. BUT I

1:38:50JUST I WANT TO NOTE THAT,

1:38:52COUNCILOR AVALOS, YOU ASKED FOR

1:38:54A SENSE OF WHERE PEOPLE ARE.

1:38:56AND I KEEP FEELING LIKE THESE

1:38:57ARE TWO VERY DIFFERENT

1:38:59DISCUSSIONS. ONE ON FUTURE

1:39:02TECHNOLOGY THAT WE NEED TO PUT

1:39:04A STOP TO BEFORE IT GETS HERE,

1:39:06AND ONE ON CURRENT PRACTICES

1:39:08THAT WE MIGHT WANT TO DELVE

1:39:09DEEPER INTO AND TAKE THE TIME

1:39:12TO FIGURE OUT IF THOSE CURRENT

1:39:13PRACTICES ARE ACTUALLY MAKING

1:39:15THINGS MORE EXPENSIVE. UNDER

1:39:18THE VEIL OF SAYING THAT IT'S

1:39:21MAKING THINGS MORE AFFORDABLE,

1:39:22WHICH IS CERTAINLY A QUESTION

1:39:24THAT WE SHOULD GIVE SOME TIME

1:39:25AND THOUGHT TO. COUNCILOR

1:39:28MORILLO, YOU'RE NEXT IN THE

1:39:29QUEUE.

1:39:31>> YEAH, THANKS FOR THAT. CAN

1:39:32YOU CLARIFY WHAT YOU MEAN BY

1:39:34THINGS THAT ARE HAPPENING IN

1:39:35THE FUTURE, OR DO YOU MEAN THAT

1:39:37THE COUPON DISCOUNT THING DOES

1:39:39NOT APPLY TODAY? I'M JUST A BIT

1:39:41CONFUSED.

1:39:42>> WE'VE HEARD THAT THE USE OF.

1:39:50THE USE OF PERSONAL DATA IN

1:39:52SURVEILLANCE PRICING IS AS FAR

1:39:55AS FOLKS WHO HAVE SPOKEN TODAY

1:39:56KNOW, NOT HAPPENING IN GROCERY

1:39:59STORES IN OUR AREA, BUT THAT

1:40:00THE TECHNOLOGY IS COMING ONLINE

1:40:02AS WE GET THE ELECTRONIC

1:40:05PRICING ON SHELVES AND THINGS

1:40:07LIKE THAT THAT COULD ALLOW IT

1:40:08TO HAPPEN IN THE FUTURE, AND

1:40:10THAT WE THEREFORE NEED TO

1:40:12SIGNAL AS QUICKLY AS POSSIBLE

1:40:14THAT THIS IS SOMETHING THAT

1:40:15CAN'T HAPPEN HERE.

1:40:16>> I SEE.

1:40:17>> SO THAT TO ME FEELS LIKE A

1:40:19LET'S AS QUICKLY AS POSSIBLE

1:40:21SAY, THIS CANNOT HAPPEN HERE.

1:40:23THERE IS THIS BROADER

1:40:25CONVERSATION THAT YOU'VE

1:40:26BROUGHT UP, AND I REALLY

1:40:27APPRECIATE YOU BRINGING IT UP

1:40:28ABOUT WHETHER CONSUMER DATA

1:40:32DRIVEN COUPONS ARE ACTUALLY

1:40:35MAKING THINGS MORE EXPENSIVE

1:40:36FOR PEOPLE AS OPPOSED TO MORE

1:40:37AFFORDABLE FOR PEOPLE, WHICH I

1:40:38THINK WE SHOULD ABSOLUTELY TAKE,

1:40:40TAKE UP AND HAVE BROADER

1:40:41DISCUSSIONS ABOUT AS WE THINK

1:40:43ABOUT AFFORDABILITY. FOR ME,

1:40:45THAT REQUIRES TALKING TO A LOT

1:40:47MORE EXPERTS AND UNDERSTANDING

1:40:49THAT ISSUE MORE DEEPLY. AND I

1:40:52AGREE THAT COMMITTEES ARE THE

1:40:54PLACE TO DIG IN ON ISSUES LIKE

1:40:56THAT. BUT BECAUSE I AM ALSO

1:40:58HEARING THAT WE NEED TO SIGNAL

1:40:59AS QUICKLY AS POSSIBLE ABOUT

1:41:00SURVEILLANCE PRICING. I'M

1:41:03WANTING TO TAKE ON THESE TWO

1:41:05ISSUES, WHICH FEEL TO ME LIKE

1:41:06DISTINCT ISSUES THAT COULD BE,

1:41:07BUT DON'T HAVE TO BE DONE

1:41:09TOGETHER AS SEPARATE ISSUES.

1:41:13>> OKAY.

1:41:14>> THANKS. THAT'S HELPFUL TO

1:41:16UNDERSTAND WHERE YOU'RE COMING

1:41:17FROM. I AGREE, I THINK WE, YOU

1:41:20KNOW, I DO WANT TO MAKE SURE

1:41:21THAT IT DOESN'T COME TO OREGON

1:41:23AND THEN WE'RE BACKTRACKING

1:41:25AFTERWARDS. BUT I DO WANT TO

1:41:27CLARIFY A FEW THINGS THAT I

1:41:29HEARD TODAY. SO UNDER BOTH THE

1:41:32UNDERLYING ORDINANCE AND MY

1:41:34AMENDMENT, YOU CAN STILL JOIN A

1:41:36PROGRAM OR IDENTIFY AS A

1:41:37VETERAN OR ANOTHER PROTECTED

1:41:39CLASS TO GET A DISCOUNT UNDER

1:41:42COUNCILOR ZIMMERMAN'S. ONCE YOU

1:41:43DO, THE STORE CAN USE WHAT IT

1:41:45KNOWS ABOUT YOU TO DECIDE HOW

1:41:47BIG THAT DISCOUNT IS. THAT WAS

1:41:50REITERATED BY OUR ATTORNEY,

1:41:51MATT GANDER, WHO WORKED ON BOTH

1:41:52OF THESE UNDER OURS. UNDER OUR

1:41:56AMENDMENT, EVERYONE WHO

1:41:57QUALIFIES GETS THE SAME

1:41:59DISCOUNT. SO THAT IS THE FIRST

1:42:03INSTANCE OF USING PERSONAL

1:42:04INFORMATION TO GIVE DIFFERENT

1:42:06PRICES. THAT IS STILL

1:42:07SURVEILLANCE PRICING. IT'S JUST

1:42:09THAT IT'S HIDDEN WITHIN THE

1:42:11LOYALTY PROGRAM. SO THE FTC AND

1:42:14OTHER PARTIES ALREADY REFER TO

1:42:15THIS AS SURVEILLANCE PRICING.

1:42:17AND I THINK THAT YOU'RE RIGHT,

1:42:19WHAT WE ARE DOING HERE TODAY

1:42:20AND WHAT PASSES THROUGH

1:42:21PORTLAND CITY COUNCIL IS

1:42:23SETTING A REALLY IMPORTANT

1:42:25PRECEDENT FOR WHAT THE

1:42:26LEGISLATURE DOES MOVING FORWARD.

1:42:28BUT WE ALSO CAN ACCIDENTALLY

1:42:32SIGNAL TO THE LEGISLATURE THAT

1:42:33WE ARE WILLING TO PASS A

1:42:35SURVEILLANCE PRICING POLICY

1:42:36THAT IS SUPPOSED TO BAN IT,

1:42:38THAT ACTUALLY HAS A HUGE GAPING

1:42:39HOLE AND ALLOWS IT TO MOVE

1:42:41FORWARD ANYWAYS, UNDER THE

1:42:43GUISE THAT WE'RE DOING

1:42:44SOMETHING FOR PORTLANDERS OR

1:42:46FOR OREGONIANS AND MAKING

1:42:48THINGS BETTER FOR THEM. SO WE

1:42:51DON'T GAIN A LOT BY GETTING

1:42:52THIS OUT THE DOOR, ESPECIALLY

1:42:54RUSHING THIS THROUGH COMMITTEE.

1:42:56ALL WE DO IS SIGNAL OUR

1:42:57INABILITY TO HAVE A SERIOUS

1:42:59CONVERSATION ABOUT SOME OF THE

1:43:00LOOPHOLES THAT ARE STILL VERY

1:43:04PRESENT IN THIS POLICY AND THE

1:43:07PUBLIC. THEY'RE NOT GOING TO BE

1:43:09SERVED BY US SAYING THAT WE

1:43:10BANNED SOMETHING IF WE CAN'T

1:43:12ENFORCE IT. SO IF WE DON'T HAVE

1:43:14ANY ENFORCEMENT MECHANISMS IN

1:43:15THIS, THEN THE POINT IS MOOT

1:43:17EITHER WAY. SO I REALLY CARE

1:43:20ABOUT THIS POLICY. I ZIMMERMAN

1:43:23KNOWS I TEXTED HIM VERY

1:43:24EXCITEDLY WHEN I SAW HE WAS

1:43:26BRINGING THIS FORWARD, AND I'M

1:43:27WORRIED THAT IF WE DON'T

1:43:28ADDRESS THESE LOOPHOLES, IT'S

1:43:29NOT GOING TO DO WHAT WE'RE

1:43:31TELLING THE PUBLIC. IT DOES.

1:43:33THANK YOU.

1:43:36>> THANK YOU, COUNCILOR.

1:43:37COUNCILOR AVALOS.

1:43:43>> OKAY. I THINK WHERE I'M

1:43:50LANDING IS. I SHARE A CONCERN

1:43:55AROUND THE LOOPHOLE AND I DON'T

1:43:58OBVIOUSLY COUNCILOR MORILLO HAS

1:43:59BROUGHT HER VERSION OF HOW TO

1:44:01CLOSE THAT LOOPHOLE. AND THAT'S

1:44:02WHAT WE'RE CONSIDERING. I'M

1:44:09TRYING TO UNDERSTAND MAYBE FROM

1:44:11AMANDA. BASED ON HOW YOU WERE

1:44:14REACTING TO IT AT FIRST. LIKE

1:44:17IT SEEMS LIKE BOTH POLICIES

1:44:20ALLOW FOR LOYALTY PROGRAMS,

1:44:22ALLOW FOR SOME KIND OF

1:44:24SPECIALIZATION BASED ON

1:44:26CUSTOMER. HISTORY. BUT THE

1:44:33DIFFERENCE BEING THAT UNDER THE

1:44:37CURRENT UNDERLYING, THEY COULD

1:44:39ALSO. ON TOP OF THAT, THE

1:44:41GROCER, I GUESS ON TOP OF THAT

1:44:42COULD ADD MORE SPECIALIZATION

1:44:45TO THAT LOYALTY PROGRAM BASED

1:44:47ON THEIR PERSONAL DATA. THIS IS

1:44:48HOW I'M INTERPRETING WHAT

1:44:50COUNCILOR MORILLO IS SUGGESTING

1:44:52THAT WE CHANGE. SO I GUESS, CAN

1:44:55YOU EXPLAIN WHAT IS YOUR

1:44:57CONCERN ABOUT THAT SPECIFICALLY?

1:44:58BECAUSE IT'S, YOU KNOW,

1:45:01ULTIMATELY, IF WE'RE TRYING TO

1:45:02BAN SURVEILLANCE PRICING. AND I

1:45:04THINK THE OTHER THING I'M

1:45:05GETTING CONFUSED ABOUT IS LIKE,

1:45:06THIS IS ABOUT IN THE FUTURE

1:45:08BECAUSE IT'S LIKE, WE, THERE'S

1:45:10ALL THIS TECHNOLOGY, SO WHAT?

1:45:11THE GROCERS HAVEN'T USED IT.

1:45:13SOME OF THEM ARE USING IT, I

1:45:15CAN'T REMEMBER. I'M SURE YOU

1:45:16SAID THE HISTORY. I JUST CAN'T

1:45:18REMEMBER RIGHT NOW. BUT YEAH,

1:45:19SO WHY DON'T WE START WITH THE

1:45:21FIRST QUESTION, WHICH IS JUST

1:45:22WHAT IS YOUR WHY ARE YOU

1:45:23AGAINST US MAKING THAT MORE

1:45:26CLEAR THAT SURVEILLANCE,

1:45:27PRICING OR WHATEVER CAN'T BE

1:45:29USED EVEN IN LOYALTY, IF IT

1:45:30ALREADY HAS SOME PROTECTIONS?

1:45:32BOTH OF THEM HAVE PROTECTIONS

1:45:33FOR LOYALTY PROGRAMS.

1:45:35>> YEAH. AND CHAIR

1:45:36PIRTLE-GUINEY AND COUNCILOR

1:45:37AVALOS, APPRECIATE THE QUESTION.

1:45:40SO A COUPLE THINGS. ONE, I

1:45:42THINK, AS YOU HEARD FROM

1:45:43COUNCILOR PIRTLE-GUINEY, THE

1:45:45DEFINITIONS IN THE IN THESE

1:45:46POLICIES ARE REALLY IMPORTANT

1:45:48AND HIGHLY TECHNICAL. AND SO

1:45:49LIKE, EVERY WORD DOES MATTER.

1:45:51AND IT IS VERY CONFUSING

1:45:52BECAUSE I THINK THE OTHER PIECE

1:45:53TO, TO THINK, KEEP IN MIND IS,

1:45:56AS YOU HAD SAID EARLIER, THIS

1:45:58IS REGULATING TWO DIFFERENT

1:45:59THINGS, DYNAMIC AND

1:46:01SURVEILLANCE, AND IT'S ALSO

1:46:02REGULATING GROCERY AND ALL

1:46:04RETAIL, INCLUDING ONLINE RETAIL

1:46:05OF ALL CONSUMER GOODS. SO WE

1:46:07ARE NOT JUST TALKING ABOUT FOOD,

1:46:08RIGHT. SO IT IS A REALLY

1:46:10MASSIVE. SO HOW EACH OF THESE

1:46:12APPLY TO EACH OF THOSE BUCKETS.

1:46:14AND I'M JUST HERE ON BEHALF OF

1:46:15GROCERY RETAIL. AND SO YOU

1:46:16DON'T HAVE A BROADER RETAIL

1:46:18PERSPECTIVE ON IT. SO I CAN

1:46:19TELL YOU SPECIFICALLY FOR

1:46:20GROCERY, AND MAYBE THIS IS

1:46:22WHERE SOME OF THE CONFUSION

1:46:23COMES IN, PART OF THE PROBLEM

1:46:25IS YOUR DEFINITION OF PERSONAL

1:46:26INFORMATION INCLUDES PURCHASE

1:46:27HISTORY. SO IF YOU THINK ABOUT

1:46:28CONSUMER BEHAVIOR OR EVEN

1:46:31INFERENCES, RIGHT, ABOUT A

1:46:32CONSUMER'S PURCHASE HISTORY. SO

1:46:33FOR EXAMPLE, TODAY A GROCERY

1:46:35RETAILER MAY SHARE PURCHASE

1:46:38HISTORY DATA WITH A THIRD PARTY

1:46:40MANUFACTURER LIKE COCA COLA,

1:46:42BECAUSE WE KNOW THAT MR.

1:46:44SELVAGGIO DRINKS A LOT OF DIET

1:46:45COKE. HE HASN'T PURCHASED DIET

1:46:46COKE IN A MONTH, AND SO HE MAY

1:46:48NEED A COUPON FOR $2. RIGHT.

1:46:50AND SO THIS IS, I THINK, WHERE

1:46:52THE GROCERY INDUSTRY LOOKS AT

1:46:53THIS ISSUE A LITTLE BIT

1:46:55DIFFERENTLY. WE SUPPORT

1:46:56PROHIBITING USING PERSONAL

1:46:57INFORMATION TO RAISE PRICES,

1:46:59BUT WE ABSOLUTELY USE PURCHASE

1:47:01HISTORY IN OUR LOYALTY PROGRAMS.

1:47:02IT'S THE CORE OF THOSE LOYALTY

1:47:04PROGRAMS TO PROVIDE OUR

1:47:05CONSUMERS WITH COUPONS AND

1:47:07DISCOUNTS THAT ARE RELEVANT TO

1:47:08THEM AND THEIR SHOPPING

1:47:09BEHAVIORS. AND SO THAT'S MAYBE

1:47:10WHERE THE TWO KIND OF CONFUSE

1:47:12THE ISSUE. SO WE'RE NOT USING

1:47:14YOUR PERSONAL INFORMATION.

1:47:15WE'RE NOT USING YOUR ADDRESS.

1:47:16WE'RE NOT USING YOUR INCOME.

1:47:18WE'RE NOT USING ALL THESE

1:47:19HORRIFIC KIND OF EXAMPLES AND

1:47:20WORST CASE SCENARIOS TO DRIVE

1:47:22PRICES. BUT WE ARE USING YOUR

1:47:24PURCHASE HISTORY AND SOMETIMES

1:47:26HOUSEHOLD INFORMATION TO BUILD

1:47:27THOSE LOYALTY PROGRAMS. AND

1:47:28AGAIN, I DO WANT TO SAY THOSE

1:47:30ARE LOYALTY PROGRAMS CONSUMERS

1:47:31OPT INTO, AND I'LL JUST MAKE A

1:47:33PLUG. OREGON HAS SOME OF THE

1:47:34STRONGEST CONSUMER PROTECTIONS

1:47:36IN THE STATE, INCLUDING THE

1:47:38OREGON CONSUMER PRIVACY ACT,

1:47:39WHICH WAS JUST PASSED BY THE

1:47:41LEGISLATURE A FEW YEARS AGO.

1:47:41THAT ACTUALLY LETS CONSUMERS

1:47:43OPT OUT OF THEIR DATA BEING

1:47:45SOLD OR SHARED. AND SO THAT'S A

1:47:47REALLY SIGNIFICANT LAW THAT NOT

1:47:49EVERY STATE, INCLUDING

1:47:50WASHINGTON, DOESN'T EVEN HAVE

1:47:52THAT WAS PASSED, THAT DOES

1:47:53APPLY TO GROCERY STORES AND OUR

1:47:54LOYALTY PROGRAM. SO THAT

1:47:55CONSUMER DATA HAS A TON OF

1:47:57PROTECTIONS WRAPPED AROUND IT.

1:47:58I DON'T KNOW IF THAT HELPS.

1:47:59>> WELL, I GUESS GOING TO

1:48:01FOLLOW UP IS WHAT I'M

1:48:02UNDERSTANDING AND MORILLO ONE

1:48:04IS THAT YOU STILL CAN USE

1:48:06PURCHASE HISTORY. IT'S JUST

1:48:07MORE NARROW, RIGHT? LIKE IT'S

1:48:09THE TIER THING, RIGHT? SO MAYBE

1:48:10CAN YOU HELP ME UNDERSTAND THAT?

1:48:12COUNCILOR. MORILLO. BECAUSE IT

1:48:13SOUNDS LIKE YOU STILL ARE

1:48:15ALLOWING FOR PURCHASE HISTORY.

1:48:16IT'S JUST THAT DEFINITION OF

1:48:18LIKE PERSONAL DATA THAT MAYBE

1:48:20WE'RE GRAPPLING WITH, BUT ISN'T

1:48:21THE INTENT THAT THEY STILL

1:48:22COULD USE THAT. SO IF I BUY A

1:48:24LOT OF CAT FOOD, I COULD GET A

1:48:26COUPON FOR CAT FOOD BECAUSE

1:48:28THAT'S MY HISTORY. BUT YEAH,

1:48:29CAN YOU JUST HELP ME UNDERSTAND

1:48:30THAT BETTER?

1:48:31>> YEAH, THAT IS EXACTLY

1:48:33CORRECT. YOU HAVE IT RIGHT. I

1:48:36DO THINK THE, YOU KNOW, I DO

1:48:39WANT MY COLLEAGUES TO CONSIDER,

1:48:41TOO, THAT THE OREGON CONSUMER

1:48:43PRIVACY ACT THAT PROTECTS SOME

1:48:45OF THE CONSUMERS UNDER OREGON

1:48:48STATE LAW, WAS DIRECTLY FOUGHT

1:48:50BY THE PERSON WHO IS LOBBYING

1:48:51US ON THIS SURVEILLANCE PRICING

1:48:53ORDINANCE RIGHT NOW. SO LET'S

1:48:55NOT PRETEND THAT THAT CONTEXT

1:48:56DOES NOT EXIST. WHEN WE TALK

1:48:58ABOUT WHO'S PRESENTING BEFORE

1:48:59US AND WHO IS GIVING US A

1:49:01POLICY THAT MAY HAVE A LOOPHOLE

1:49:02FOR GIANT RETAILERS.

1:49:05>> AND CHAIR PIRTLE-GUINEY, IF

1:49:07I MAY JUST WEIGH IN, ENCOURAGE

1:49:09THE RECORD TO GO BACK. I

1:49:10ACTUALLY SUPPORTED IT AND WAS

1:49:12ON THE WORKGROUP AND SERVED ON

1:49:13IT FOR TWO YEARS UNDER ATTORNEY

1:49:15GENERAL ELLEN ROSENBLUM. BUT

1:49:16YEAH, DETAILS MATTER, AND WE'RE

1:49:17NOT GOING TO SUPPORT EVERYTHING

1:49:18THAT'S PUT ON THE TABLE. I WILL

1:49:20SAY, THOUGH, WE DISAGREE WITH

1:49:21THE PREMISE THAT YOU OUTLINED

1:49:23IN TERMS OF THE MORILLO

1:49:24AMENDMENT, JUST NARROWING IT. I

1:49:26ACTUALLY THINK IT WILL

1:49:27ELIMINATE IT. AND IT'S THAT

1:49:29APPLICATION OF EQUAL TO ALL.

1:49:31AND BECAUSE THAT'S JUST NOT THE

1:49:32WAY LOYALTY PROGRAMS AND

1:49:33COUPONS WORK, IT'S NOT PROVIDED

1:49:34EQUALLY TO ALL. IT IS SPECIFIC

1:49:36TO YOUR PURCHASE HISTORY. AND

1:49:37SO THOSE PROGRAMS ARE

1:49:39CUSTOMIZED TO THE CONSUMER. AND

1:49:40SO I UNDERSTAND THERE'S A

1:49:42PHILOSOPHICAL DIFFERENCE IN

1:49:43TERMS OF WANTING US TO OFFER

1:49:45DISCOUNTS OR LOWER PRICES TO

1:49:46EVERYONE ON EVERY PRODUCT ON

1:49:47OUR SHELF. IT'S JUST NOT HOW

1:49:49GROCERY. AND I THINK

1:49:50SIGNIFICANTLY TO THIS POLICY

1:49:52BECAUSE IT'S MUCH DIFFERENT

1:49:53THAN SEATTLE. SEATTLE IS JUST

1:49:55ABOUT GROCERY. THIS IS ALSO

1:49:56ABOUT RETAIL, SO EQUAL TO ALL

1:49:58PRODUCTS ON YOUR SHELF ONLINE

1:49:59AND AT THE BRICK AND MORTAR

1:50:01STORES IS JUST VERY, VERY

1:50:02DIFFERENT.

1:50:02>> WHY? WHY ARE YOU SAYING THAT

1:50:04IT WOULD BE ELIMINATED? IS IT

1:50:06BECAUSE IT WOULD BE TOO HARD TO

1:50:07IMPLEMENT. AND SO YOU WOULD

1:50:09CHOOSE TO JUST GET RID OF IT

1:50:10ENTIRELY? OR IS IT BECAUSE

1:50:12THERE'S SOME ACTUAL BARRIER

1:50:13THAT WOULD MEAN YOU COULD NOT

1:50:14IMPLEMENT A LOYALTY PROGRAM

1:50:15UNDER THESE CONDITIONS?

1:50:16>> YEAH, I THINK PROBABLY THE

1:50:17EASIEST WAY TO UNDERSTAND IT IS

1:50:19JUST IT'S THE SAME WAY IF

1:50:20SOMEBODY SAY CAMPAIGNING AND

1:50:21YOU'RE USING DIRECT MAIL AND

1:50:23YOU HAVE A GOING TO TALK TO VOTS

1:50:26THAT ARE LIKELY TO TURN OUT,

1:50:27THESE MANUFACTURERS AND

1:50:28RETAILERS HAVE TO BUDGETS. AND

1:50:29I WANT SOMEBODY THAT'S GOING TO

1:50:31KEEP COMING BACK TO BUY DIET

1:50:32COKE. IT'S THE SAME THING. THE

1:50:34ONE OF THE EXAMPLES THAT'S COME

1:50:36UP IN SOME OF THE OTHER

1:50:37COMMUNITIES IS THERE WAS A

1:50:38COMMENT THAT THIS DOESN'T

1:50:39IMPACT SMALL GROCERS OR SMALL

1:50:40BUSINESSES, AND IT'S ACTUALLY

1:50:41NOT AT ALL ACCURATE. ONE OF THE

1:50:43WAYS THAT WE TARGET IS WHERE IT

1:50:45ACTUALLY LETS COMPETITIVE

1:50:46PRODUCTS COME IN. SO IF YOU'RE

1:50:47A SMALL COFFEE PRODUCER AND YOU

1:50:49WANT TO COMPETE WITH STARBUCKS,

1:50:50MAYBE YOU OFFER A $5 DISCOUNT

1:50:53ON SOMEBODY WHO BUYS STARBUCKS

1:50:54EVERY MONTH OR EVERY WEEK, THE

1:50:56ONLY WAY YOU KNOW THAT IS BASED

1:50:58ON THEIR PURCHASE HISTORY. SO

1:50:59AGAIN, IT'S THAT EQUALLY

1:51:00APPLIED TO ALL PHILOSOPHICAL

1:51:02DIFFERENCE. AGAIN, IT'S JUST

1:51:03NOT HOW IT WORKS. BUDGETS ARE

1:51:04LIMITED. WE HAVE TO TARGET

1:51:05BASED ON WHAT THE CONSUMER

1:51:07WANTS AND WHERE THEY'RE GOING

1:51:08TO COME BACK TO.

1:51:12>> COUNCILOR. DID YOU HAVE

1:51:13ANYTHING ADDITIONAL?

1:51:16>> LET'S SEE. LET ME LOOK.

1:51:19>> AND IT LOOKS. LIKE MR.

1:51:21SALVAGGIO MAY HAVE A RESPONSE

1:51:22TO YOUR PREVIOUS QUESTION, IF

1:51:24YOU'RE INTERESTED.

1:51:24>> IN THAT.

1:51:25>> SURE.

1:51:25>> GO AHEAD.

1:51:26>> THANK YOU, MADAM CHAIR.

1:51:27MEMBERS OF THE COMMITTEE, I

1:51:29JUST WANT TO SAY VERY QUICKLY

1:51:31TO TAKE A FEW STEPS BACK FROM

1:51:33THE MINUTIA OF THE LOYALTY

1:51:36PROGRAMS AND JUST

1:51:38RECONTEXTUALIZE THESE ARE

1:51:40PROGRAMS THAT ARE ARE DESIGNED

1:51:43TO GET UNION STORE SHOPPERS

1:51:45CONTINUING TO COME INTO UNION

1:51:47STORES. AND, AND I WANT TO JUST

1:51:50REEMPHASIZE HOW IMPORTANT THAT

1:51:53IS FOR US AND THAT WE DEPEND ON

1:51:57THAT PREDICTABILITY OF CUSTOMER

1:52:00INFLOW FOR NOT ONLY REVENUE

1:52:02THAT WE EXPECT TO SHARE IN, BUT

1:52:05ALSO IN TERMS OF STAFFING AND

1:52:09SHIFTS AND WHATNOT. THESE ARE

1:52:14FUNDAMENTAL ISSUES TO OUR

1:52:15MEMBERS. AND I WOULD NOT WANT

1:52:18TO SEE THOSE PROGRAMS HARMED

1:52:23INADVERTENTLY BECAUSE WE'RE

1:52:23TRYING TO SO UP. A TWO TIGHT

1:52:29ORDINANCE HERE. I ALSO JUST

1:52:32HAVE TO SAY, FOR THE RECORD, IN

1:52:36GOOD CONSCIENCE, MY COLLEAGUE

1:52:38HERE AND I, WE AGREE SOMETIMES

1:52:41WE DISAGREE SOMETIMES. AND WHEN

1:52:42WE AGREE, WE WORK TOGETHER.

1:52:43WHEN WE DISAGREE, WE FIGHT LIKE

1:52:45CATS AND DOGS. BUT I HAVE NEVER

1:52:48EVER KNOWN HER TO MISAPPLY OR

1:52:55MISLEAD ANYONE THAT SHE'S BEEN

1:52:58IN FRONT OF, INCLUDING MYSELF

1:53:00AND I JUST LIKE I WOULD EXPECT

1:53:03THE SAME COURTESY I, I DON'T

1:53:06FEEL THAT IT'S APPROPRIATE TO

1:53:07MAKE THOSE SUGGESTIONS.

1:53:10>> THANK YOU COUNSELOR.

1:53:12>> ANYTHING FURTHER?

1:53:13>> I'LL LEAVE IT AT THAT FOR

1:53:15NOW AND HEAR WHAT OTHERS SAY.

1:53:16THANKS, COLLEAGUES.

1:53:17>> I'LL NOTE THAT IT IS 350.

1:53:20WE'RE A LITTLE PAST TIME ON

1:53:22THIS, BUT I WANT TO MAKE SURE

1:53:23EVERYBODY IN THE QUEUE IS ABLE

1:53:25TO ASK ANY ADDITIONAL QUESTIONS

1:53:27BEFORE WE MOVE TO A VOTE.

1:53:28COUNCILOR ZIMMERMAN, DID YOU

1:53:29HAVE ANYTHING FURTHER?

1:53:32>> THANK YOU. CHAIR. I THOUGHT

1:53:34IT MIGHT BE RESPONSIBLE TO KIND

1:53:36OF JUST DISCUSS A LITTLE BIT

1:53:38ABOUT PHILOSOPHY AND HOW I

1:53:40APPROACH THIS, AND WE CERTAINLY

1:53:41HAVE BEEN WORKING ON THIS FOR

1:53:43SO MANY MONTHS THAT WE'VE GONE

1:53:45ROUND AND ROUND. MANY OF THE

1:53:46ISSUES THAT WE'RE DISCUSSING

1:53:47TODAY ARE THINGS THAT MY TEAM

1:53:49AND OUR CONVERSATIONS WITH OUR

1:53:50ATTORNEYS AND WITH ADVOCATES,

1:53:52WE'VE, WE'VE COME UP WITH WE'VE

1:53:54LANDED HERE BECAUSE I LARGELY

1:53:55BELIEVE IT'S NOT OUR ROLE TO,

1:53:58AS A CITY, DO ANYTHING THAT

1:54:01EVEN IF YOU PULL THE THREAD A

1:54:02LITTLE BIT, IS PRICE SETTING.

1:54:04RIGHT. THAT'S WHERE I THINK

1:54:05THAT THE MARKET. IF YOU'RE A

1:54:07THIRD PARTY DELIVERY APP, FOR

1:54:09INSTANCE, I THINK THAT YOU HAVE

1:54:11A RELATIONSHIP WITH YOUR

1:54:12CONSUMER THAT IS IMPORTANT,

1:54:15THAT YOU GET TO SAY, IF YOU'RE

1:54:17A $5 DELIVERY FEE PERSON OR A

1:54:19$25 DELIVERY FEE PERSON, I

1:54:20THINK THAT THAT'S FINE. I THINK

1:54:22THAT BEING SET BASED ON PII IS

1:54:25WHERE I'M TRYING TO INVOLVE THE

1:54:26CITY, BUT BEING ABLE TO HAVE

1:54:31BASELINE PRICES, BEING ABLE TO

1:54:33HAVE LOYALTY PROGRAMS, BEING

1:54:34ABLE TO ENSURE THAT WHATEVER

1:54:36SERVICE IS BEING OFFERED,

1:54:38WHATEVER GOOD IS BEING OFFERED,

1:54:39IS THAT IT IS BASED ON THAT

1:54:42COMPANY'S MARKET ASSESSMENT AND

1:54:43NOT ON ON PII AND SURVEILLANCE.

1:54:46THOSE ARE ALL ACHIEVABLE IN THE

1:54:48UNDERLYING THE. YOU KNOW, WE WE

1:54:53DID PUBLISH THIS ORIGINAL

1:54:55DOCUMENT. IT WAS SUPPOSED TO BE

1:54:56HEARD ON, ON AUGUST 11TH. IN

1:55:00THAT TIME, YOU KNOW, WE

1:55:02CONTINUED TO WORK ON HOW DO WE

1:55:04MAKE THIS BETTER? AND THAT'S

1:55:05WHAT YOU SAW IN ZIMMERMAN. ONE,

1:55:07IT WAS A SINGLE PARAGRAPH AD

1:55:08AND A COUPLE WORDS LATER THAT

1:55:09WAS CHANGED. I'M CAUTIOUS ABOUT

1:55:14THE AMENDMENT AYE, MORILLO ONE,

1:55:16AS IT'S BEEN PROPOSED. IT'S

1:55:17LARGELY A REWRITE. AND THAT

1:55:20THAT IS GIVING ME A LITTLE BIT

1:55:22OF HEARTBURN IN TERMS OF

1:55:25REACTING TO IT. AND I DO THINK

1:55:27THAT IT GETS TO THE HEART OF

1:55:30WHAT WE LARGELY IN OUR

1:55:32DISCUSSIONS. AND WHAT I'M

1:55:33TRYING TO PROTECT IT ACTUALLY

1:55:34IS, IS INTERRUPTING THAT

1:55:36PROTECTION OF THE LOYALTY

1:55:37PROGRAMS AND THE APPLICATION OF

1:55:39OF THOSE PROTECTIONS. AND I DO

1:55:41THINK IT GETS CLOSER TO WHAT I

1:55:44THINK IS AN UNINTENDED

1:55:45CONSEQUENCE OF SOME PRICE

1:55:48SETTING OR ELIMINATION OF, OF

1:55:52WHAT WE WOULD CONSIDER THE

1:55:53MARKET TODAY. AND SO FOR THOSE

1:55:56REASONS, YOU KNOW, THIS HAS

1:55:57BEEN A HELPFUL CONVERSATION,

1:55:58BUT THIS IS A MASSIVE AMENDMENT

1:56:00THAT I WON'T BE PREPARED TO

1:56:02SUPPORT TODAY. BUT I DO THINK

1:56:04THAT THIS WAS A WORTHY. AND I

1:56:06WANT TO THANK YOU, CHAIR, FOR

1:56:07GIVING IT SO MUCH TIME, BECAUSE

1:56:09THIS WAS A WORTHY CONVERSATION

1:56:10ON A MEATY TOPIC THAT IS MOVING

1:56:13FASTER THAN MOST LEGISLATIVE

1:56:14BODIES CAN MOVE. AND SO I THINK

1:56:16THAT THAT IS THE RESPONSIBLE

1:56:18ACTION. AND I AGREE WITH YOU IN

1:56:19TERMS OF GETTING GETTING THE

1:56:22ORIGINAL OUT THERE, I

1:56:25APPRECIATE, BUT I DO DISAGREE

1:56:26WITH SOME OF THE ITEMS THAT

1:56:28WERE LAID OUT IN THE SECOND

1:56:29PRESENTATION ABOUT WHAT AYE,

1:56:30MORILLO ONE DOES VERSUS VERSUS

1:56:32THE UNDERLYING, BUT THEY'RE ALL

1:56:35IMPORTANT POINTS. THERE'S A

1:56:37PHILOSOPHY IN HOW WE DRAFT

1:56:38LEGISLATION HERE THAT I THINK

1:56:39YOU'RE SEEING MY STYLE COME OUT,

1:56:40WHICH IS MINIMAL IN ORDER TO BE

1:56:44CLEAR VERSUS VERBOSE IN ORDER

1:56:48TO HIT EVERY ANGLE. AND I THINK

1:56:50SETTING A TONE IN OUR

1:56:52LEGISLATION IS FOR WHAT IS AND

1:56:54IS NOT ACCEPTABLE IN PORTLAND,

1:56:55WAS THE GOAL FROM WHICH I WROTE

1:56:57THIS ONE. AND I RECOGNIZE THAT

1:56:59WE ARE APPROACHING IT SLIGHTLY

1:57:00DIFFERENT. BUT I BELIEVE

1:57:02EVERYBODY HERE HAS A SIMILAR

1:57:03GOAL IN PLACE. AND FOR THAT, I

1:57:06DO APPRECIATE THIS CONVERSATION

1:57:07AND EVERYBODY WHO'S WEIGHED IN.

1:57:08AND FOR THIS AMENDMENT, I, I

1:57:10WILL PASS ON IT TODAY, THOUGH.

1:57:12THANK YOU.

1:57:13>> THANK YOU. COUNCILOR.

1:57:14COUNCILOR. MORILLO.

1:57:17>> THANK YOU FOR THAT. IN TERMS

1:57:22OF APPLICATION OF THE LAW,

1:57:25THERE IS NO ROOM FOR THE DEBATE.

1:57:27THIS POLICY WILL EITHER SOLVE

1:57:29THE PROBLEM OR IT WILL NOT. AND

1:57:32I WANT TO SAY THAT MY AMENDMENT

1:57:36AGAIN, DOES NOT TOUCH THE

1:57:38LOYALTY PROGRAMS. I CAN'T SAY

1:57:40THAT ENOUGH. IT STILL PERMITS

1:57:43DISCOUNTS BASED ON PURCHASE

1:57:45HISTORY. I'M GOING TO READ YOU

1:57:47A DIRECT QUOTE FROM THE

1:57:48AMENDMENT IN CASE IT'S UNCLEAR.

1:57:49DISCOUNTS OFFERED TO A SUBSET

1:57:51OF REWARDS PROGRAM MEMBERS

1:57:52BASED EXCLUSIVELY ON PRIOR

1:57:54PURCHASE HISTORY. TIERED

1:57:56DISCOUNT PROGRAMS MAY NOT

1:57:57CONSIDER INFORMATION ABOUT

1:57:59CONSUMERS, PRICE SENSITIVITY OR

1:58:01ANY PERSONAL DATA BEYOND WHAT

1:58:03IS NECESSARY TO IDENTIFY THE

1:58:04CONSUMER AS ELIGIBLE FOR THE

1:58:06TIERED DISCOUNT. SO IF WE CARE

1:58:09ABOUT THE EXACT TYPE OF

1:58:11INFERENCES AND DATA

1:58:12EXPLOITATION THAT THE FTC IS

1:58:14TALKING ABOUT, THAT HAS TO BE

1:58:17INCLUDED. AND TO SAY THAT THIS

1:58:19TYPE OF DATA IS NOT BEING

1:58:21COLLECTED ON PEOPLE IS

1:58:23INACCURATE. THIS HAS BEEN VERY

1:58:25EXTENSIVELY STUDIED, AND IT IS

1:58:27BEING USED AGAINST PEOPLE. SO

1:58:30WE ADDED THE ADDITIONAL WORDS,

1:58:31NOT FOR THE SAKE OF BEING

1:58:33VERBOSE OR FOR MAKING IT OVER

1:58:36COMPLICATED OR DIFFICULT TO

1:58:38COMPREHEND, OR TO HAVE A GOTCHA.

1:58:40ON MY COLLEAGUES, I WAS TOLD

1:58:42COMMITTEE IS THE PLACE TO BRING

1:58:43AMENDMENTS BECAUSE I DON'T WANT

1:58:46TO BRING IT UP FULL COUNCIL AND

1:58:47CATCH EVERYONE BY SURPRISE AND

1:58:49THEN BE BE IN TROUBLE FOR THAT

1:58:50TOO. I BROUGHT IT BECAUSE I

1:58:53ACTUALLY REALLY CARE ABOUT

1:58:54SOLVING THIS PROBLEM, AND I'M

1:58:56EXCITED ABOUT THIS POLICY. AND

1:58:59REGARDING THE IDEA THAT WE

1:59:00SHOULD BAN THIS NOW AND THEN

1:59:02FIX THE DISCOUNT ISSUE LATER, A

1:59:05DIFFERENTIAL PRICE AND A

1:59:06PERSONALIZED DISCOUNT ARE THE

1:59:07SAME TRANSACTION DESCRIBED FROM

1:59:09TWO ENDS. IF YOU PAY FOR 99 AND

1:59:12YOUR NEIGHBOR PAYS FOR 49 FOR

1:59:13THE SAME ITEM BECAUSE OF YOUR

1:59:15DATA, THAT'S DIFFERENTIAL

1:59:17PRICING. WHETHER THE STORE GOT

1:59:18THERE BY MARKING YOU UP OR BY

1:59:21MARKING YOUR NEIGHBOR DOWN, THE

1:59:23STORE CHOOSES THE LABEL AND IT

1:59:24WILL ALWAYS CHOOSE DISCOUNT.

1:59:27THAT'S WHY BANNED DIFFERENTIAL

1:59:29PRICING NOW, DISCOUNTS LATER

1:59:31BANS NOTHING. NOW UNDER

1:59:34ZIMMERMAN WON THE RETAIL PRICE

1:59:36IS THE PRICE BEFORE DISCOUNTS,

1:59:38SO ANY DIFFERENTIAL DELIVERED

1:59:39AS A DISCOUNT IS OUTSIDE THE

1:59:41BAN. BY DEFINITION, EVERY

1:59:44DOCUMENTED CASE IS DELIVERED BY

1:59:45THAT IS DELIVERED THAT WAY.

1:59:47KROGER'S COUPONS INSTACART'S.

1:59:49SHIFTING ORIGINAL PRICE

1:59:51DOORDASH'S. PERSONALIZED

1:59:53PROMOTIONS. SEATTLE'S MAYOR'S

1:59:55OFFICE WAS ASKED WHETHER A $1

1:59:57DISCOUNT TO ONE SHOPPER AND

1:59:58NONE TO ANOTHER IS FUNCTIONALLY

2:00:00A FORM OF INDIVIDUALIZED

2:00:02PRICING, EVEN IF THE COMPANY

2:00:03CALLS IT A DISCOUNT. AND THE

2:00:05ANSWER IS THAT YES, IT IS. WE

2:00:08SHOULD CONTINUE TO HAVE THE

2:00:10DISCUSSION, AND IF WE'RE NOT

2:00:13WILLING TO HAVE ONE MORE HOUR

2:00:15TO DISCUSS THIS, TO REALLY

2:00:17SOLVE THE PROBLEM, I THINK

2:00:20THAT'S A SHAME BECAUSE I THINK

2:00:21THIS IS A REALLY COOL POLICY.

2:00:22I'M EXCITED ABOUT THE PEOPLE

2:00:24THAT BROUGHT THIS FORWARD. I

2:00:25SUPPORT THIS BAN, BUT I ALSO

2:00:28DON'T WANT TO SUPPORT A POLICY

2:00:30THAT SAYS IT'S GOING TO DO

2:00:31SOMETHING AND LEAVE A BUNCH OF

2:00:32LOOPHOLES THAT DOESN'T ACTUALLY

2:00:34PROTECT THE PEOPLE THAT WE

2:00:35CLAIM WE'RE TRYING TO PROTECT.

2:00:37I ALSO WANT TO REMIND PEOPLE

2:00:38THAT WE'RE IN COMMITTEE. THIS

2:00:40IS A REALLY BIG ISSUE FOR A LOT

2:00:42OF PEOPLE, AND WE HAVE TWO

2:00:44INVITED TESTIMONY FOLKS UP HERE.

2:00:47WE DON'T HAVE EXACTLY LIKE A

2:00:49BROAD CONSENSUS FROM THE PUBLIC

2:00:50ABOUT WHETHER OR NOT THEY WANT

2:00:51THIS TO INCLUDE THE LOYALTY

2:00:55DISCOUNTS AS WELL. AND I THINK

2:00:57THAT THAT'S, THAT'S A LOSS AND

2:00:59THAT'S NOT GREAT FOR OUR POLICY

2:01:01MAKING. SO I UNDERSTAND I CAN

2:01:04SEE THE WRITING ON THE WALL.

2:01:05WE'RE PROBABLY GOING TO PUSH

2:01:06THIS THROUGH COMMITTEE WITHOUT

2:01:07DOING OUR DUE DILIGENCE. AND

2:01:08THAT'S FINE. BUT WE ARE LEAVING

2:01:10A HUGE HOLE IN THIS POLICY. AND

2:01:12I THINK THAT'S A DAMN SHAME.

2:01:15>> THANK YOU. COUNCILOR

2:01:16COUNCILOR RYAN.

2:01:17>> YES, THANK YOU CHAIR, IT'S

2:01:18TIME TO VOTE. I CALL FOR THE

2:01:21VOTE.

2:01:21>> OKAY.

2:01:24>> WE HAVE ONE MORE PERSON IN

2:01:25THE QUEUE. COUNCILOR AVALOS DID

2:01:27YOU WANT TO SPEAK OR CAN WE

2:01:29MOVE TO A VOTE? COUNCILOR RYAN,

2:01:35MIGHT I SUGGEST THAT YOU MOVE

2:01:37TO. NOT THAT YOU MOVE TO CLOSE

2:01:39THE QUEUE SO THAT WE DON'T HAVE

2:01:41TO VOTE ON VOTING, WHICH I

2:01:42THINK WOULD TAKE LONGER THAN

2:01:43LETTING COUNCILOR AVALOS SPEAK.

2:01:45>> THE CHAIR'S PREROGATIVE. I

2:01:46JUST WANTED TO MOVE THIS ALONG.

2:01:47WE'RE IN THE CIRCLE MODE AT

2:01:49THIS MOMENT.

2:01:49>> OKAY, WHY DON'T WE CLOSE THE

2:01:51QUEUE AND WE WILL MOVE TO A

2:01:53VOTE AFTER COUNCILOR AVALOS.

2:01:56>> YEAH. WELL, I'M ACTUALLY A

2:02:01BIT DISAPPOINTED BECAUSE I WAS

2:02:02LOOKING FORWARD TO HEARING WHAT

2:02:03YOU WERE GOING TO SAY. SO I

2:02:05THOUGHT YOU WERE GOING TO OFFER

2:02:07YOUR PERSPECTIVE ON WHAT YOU

2:02:08WERE.

2:02:08>> I'M SORRY YOU DIDN'T HEAR IT.

2:02:10I MADE IT REALLY CLEAR.

2:02:11>> I HEARD, BUT I WAS, YOU KNOW,

2:02:13I JUST THOUGHT YOU WERE GOING

2:02:15TO ADD MORE TO THAT. SO. OKAY.

2:02:16WELL, YEAH, I THINK I'M I'M

2:02:19FEELING VERY CONFLICTED ABOUT

2:02:20THIS. I DEFINITELY AGREE WITH

2:02:24THE INTENT HERE OF COUNCILOR

2:02:27MORILLO AMENDMENT, AND I WILL

2:02:29VOTE TO PASS IT BECAUSE I THINK

2:02:32THAT IT'S SOMETHING WE SHOULD

2:02:33KEEP DISCUSSING, BUT IT DOESN'T

2:02:36APPEAR IT WILL. AND SO I THINK

2:02:39I GUESS I'M JUST UNSURE HOW I'M

2:02:41GOING TO FEEL WHEN IT COMES TO

2:02:43COUNCIL, BECAUSE I THINK THERE

2:02:44ARE SOME SERIOUS GAPS THAT

2:02:47MORILLO ONE IDENTIFIED THAT I'M,

2:02:49YOU KNOW, FOR THE SAKE OF THE

2:02:51COMMUNITY, THAT THOSE GAPS,

2:02:53CLOSING THOSE GAPS WILL HELP.

2:02:54I'M VERY INTERESTED IN

2:02:56DISCUSSING MORE. SO YEAH, I

2:02:58GUESS AND, YOU KNOW, IF THIS

2:03:01DOES NOT THIS AMENDMENT DOESN'T

2:03:02PASS, THEN I WOULD ENCOURAGE

2:03:04COUNCIL MORILLO TO BRING IT

2:03:05BACK TO FULL COUNCIL SO WE CAN

2:03:07HAVE A BROADER DISCUSSION,

2:03:08BECAUSE I DO THINK THAT OTHER

2:03:09COUNCILORS MIGHT TAKE INTEREST

2:03:11IN IT. I THINK THE DISCUSSION

2:03:12WE'RE HAVING IS FRUITFUL, AND I

2:03:13THINK WE'RE ALL WE ALL SHARE A

2:03:15SIMILAR INTENT HERE. WE JUST

2:03:18OBVIOUSLY FEEL LIKE WE CAN GO

2:03:19ABOUT IT A DIFFERENT WAY. SO

2:03:21THANK YOU, COUNCILOR MORILLO,

2:03:22FOR BRINGING THAT FORWARD. I

2:03:23KNOW IT'S DIFFICULT TO PROPOSE

2:03:26SUCH A A BIG AMENDMENT. AND,

2:03:29YOU KNOW, THE WAY THAT WE'VE

2:03:30STRUCTURED OUR WORK AT COUNCIL

2:03:32JUST MAKES FOR SOME OF THIS

2:03:35DISCONNECTEDNESS, WHICH IS

2:03:35REALLY FRUSTRATING FOR US

2:03:37BECAUSE IT'S JUST LIKE WE GOT

2:03:38TO WORK IN COMMITTEE AND THEN

2:03:40COMMITTEE IS NOT ENOUGH. AND

2:03:41THEN WE GO TO COUNCIL AND THEN

2:03:43PEOPLE DON'T WANT TO TALK THERE.

2:03:44AND IT JUST FEELS LIKE THERE'S

2:03:46ALWAYS A BLOCKED DOOR INSTEAD

2:03:47OF AN OPEN DOOR. AND THAT MAKES

2:03:49POLICYMAKING HARD. SO I THINK

2:03:50THAT'S JUST MY GENERAL FEELING

2:03:51ABOUT HOW THIS HAS GONE. BUT I

2:03:53PLAN TO SUPPORT IT AND EAGER TO

2:03:55SEE WHERE THE DISCUSSION GOES

2:03:56AT COUNCIL. THANKS.

2:03:58>> THANK YOU. COUNCILORS.

2:03:59>> COLLEAGUES, I JUST WANT TO

2:04:00NOTE THAT WE'VE HAD A

2:04:02SIGNIFICANT AMOUNT OF

2:04:03WORKSHOPPING ON THIS. WE'VE HAD

2:04:05A SIGNIFICANT AMOUNT OF

2:04:07DISCUSSION. WE ARE DOING THE

2:04:10WORK THAT WE ARE SUPPOSED TO DO.

2:04:11AND IF THIS AMENDMENT FAILS,

2:04:13IT'S NOT BECAUSE WE'VE NOT HAD

2:04:15THE DISCUSSION OVER IT. I

2:04:17UNDERSTAND THAT THERE ARE

2:04:18CONCERNS WITH THE PROCESS OF

2:04:20THIS BODY, AND THAT'S SOMETHING

2:04:21THAT I THINK WE CAN WORK

2:04:23THROUGH AS A BODY, BUT I HOPE

2:04:25THAT WE DON'T CONTINUE TO. USE

2:04:32COMMITTEE AS A PLATFORM TO

2:04:36LAUNCH CONCERNS WITHOUT ANY

2:04:38WORK OF THE BODY TO ADDRESS

2:04:40THEM. I PERSONALLY THINK THAT

2:04:42THE PROCESS WE HAVE OF

2:04:43COMMITTEES AND A FULL COUNCIL

2:04:45VOTE IS IMPORTANT, AND I

2:04:48APPRECIATE THE CONVERSATION

2:04:49WE'VE HAD TODAY BECAUSE IT HAS

2:04:51AIRED FOR ME, AN ISSUE THAT I

2:04:53MIGHT BE INTERESTED IN US

2:04:57TAKING UP IN THE FUTURE. A

2:04:59REALLY IMPORTANT ONE THAT,

2:05:00ALTHOUGH I DON'T FEEL WE HAVE

2:05:02THE EXPERTS IN THE ROOM TODAY

2:05:03TO ADDRESS, AND ALTHOUGH I HOPE

2:05:06WE CAN MOVE SOMETHING FORWARD

2:05:08TODAY, WHETHER THE UNDERLYING

2:05:09OR AN AMENDED VERSION,

2:05:10DEPENDING ON HOW YOU ALL VOTE,

2:05:13THAT I THINK NEEDS TO BE MOVED

2:05:15FORWARD TODAY. THERE'S

2:05:19IMPORTANT CONVERSATION THAT HAS

2:05:21BEEN HAD AND ISSUES IDENTIFIED.

2:05:24WENDY, COULD YOU PLEASE CALL

2:05:25THE VOTE ON AYE, MORILLO ONE?

2:05:28>> THANK YOU. YES. MAY I ASK A

2:05:30PROCEDURAL QUESTION? AYE,

2:05:31MORILLO DID YOU INTEND TO

2:05:33SUPERSEDE ZIMMERMAN ONE OR IS

2:05:35IT INCLUSIVE OF ZIMMERMAN? ONE.

2:05:37>> I BELIEVE. DIDN'T ZIMMERMAN

2:05:39ONE PASS FIRST?

2:05:40>> YES. AND SO BUT IF THERE'S

2:05:44CONFLICTS BETWEEN THE TWO, IF

2:05:45YOUR AMENDMENT IS OF THE

2:05:47ORIGINAL ORDINANCE, THEN YOURS

2:05:49WOULD SUPERSEDE ZIMMERMAN ONE.

2:05:51OTHERWISE, IF YOU SAY IT'S

2:05:53INCLUSIVE, ZIMMERMAN ONE, THEN

2:05:54WE'D RECONCILE THOSE

2:05:56DIFFERENCES.

2:05:56>> GOTCHA.

2:05:57>> WHEN THEY CONFORM IT, I

2:05:59BELIEVE THE ONE CONFLICT WOULD

2:06:01BE THE DEFINITION OF F. SO ARE

2:06:04YOU INTENDING TO CAPTURE THE

2:06:06OTHER CHANGES WITHIN ZIMMERMAN

2:06:09ONE, BUT SUPERSEDE ZIMMERMAN

2:06:10ONES F WITH YOUR F?

2:06:12>> YEAH, THAT'S FINE WITH ME.

2:06:14>> THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR

2:06:15CLARIFYING. SO MOTION TO AMEND

2:06:18THE ORDINANCE 2026-308 AS SHOWN

2:06:22IN AYE, MORILLO ONE MORILLO.

2:06:26>> I I AND I BELIEVE I HEARD

2:06:29MIKE SAY THAT HE WAS INTERESTED

2:06:30IN TAKING THIS BACK TO HIS

2:06:31ATTORNEY, SO I'LL BE SENDING

2:06:32THE LANGUAGE TO THEM FOR

2:06:34FURTHER DISCUSSION FOR FULL

2:06:35COUNCIL.

2:06:37>> ZIMMERMAN.

2:06:38>> NO. AVALOS I.

2:06:41>> RYAN.

2:06:41>> NO.

2:06:43>> PIRTLE-GUINEY.

2:06:43>> NO.

2:06:44>> THE AMENDMENT. OH SORRY.

2:06:48FAILS WITH TWO VOTES AND TWO,

2:06:51THREE, NINE VOTES.

2:06:52>> OKAY.

2:06:53>> COLLEAGUES, THAT MOVES US

2:06:54BACK TO DISCUSSION ON THE

2:06:55UNDERLINE, WHICH I THINK WE

2:06:56HAVE PRETTY SUBSTANTIALLY

2:06:58DISCUSSED IN DISCUSSING THE

2:06:59AMENDMENT. SO I'M HOPING WE CAN

2:07:00MOVE TO A VOTE THERE PRETTY

2:07:02QUICKLY SO WE CAN MOVE TO A

2:07:03BREAK.

2:07:04>> ZIMMERMAN THANK YOU. I THE

2:07:06REASON I GOT IN QUICKLY WAS I

2:07:08DO THINK WE'VE HAD LARGELY THE

2:07:09DISCUSSION I WANT TO LIFT UP

2:07:12WHAT IS, I THINK, GOING TO BE A

2:07:14GOOD ACTION TODAY. I HOPE THAT

2:07:16THIS HAS SUPPORT. I THINK THAT

2:07:18A DISCUSSION ON AN AMENDMENT IS

2:07:20A WORTHWHILE ENDEAVOR ALMOST

2:07:21ALL THE TIME, AND WE HAVE DONE

2:07:23THAT NOW FOR A COUPLE OF HOURS,

2:07:24AND I DON'T WANT THAT TONE TO

2:07:28OVERRIDE WHAT I THINK IS AN

2:07:30INCREDIBLY POSITIVE STEP FOR

2:07:31THE CITY OF PORTLAND, FOR THE

2:07:32CONSUMERS OF PORTLAND, FOR

2:07:33EVERY SHOPPER IN PORTLAND, AND

2:07:35SETTING AN EXAMPLE FOR OTHER

2:07:38STATES, FOR OTHER CITIES, FOR

2:07:39THIS, FOR OUR STATE, BECAUSE

2:07:43THE EXPLOITATION OF ONE'S

2:07:44PERSONAL DATA AS TECHNOLOGY

2:07:46MAKES THAT EASIER AND EASIER,

2:07:48AS WE KNOW THAT THERE ARE

2:07:49COMPANIES WHO ARE PITCHING

2:07:51RETAILERS OF ALL TYPES THAT

2:07:53THEY CAN COME IN AND TELL A

2:07:55RETAILER, WE'LL TELL YOU MORE

2:07:56ABOUT YOUR CONSUMER THAN YOU

2:07:57COULD EVER KNOW, AND YOU CAN

2:07:59SET PRICES BASED UPON THAT. I

2:08:00THINK US SAYING, NO, THANK YOU

2:08:02TO THAT AND SETTING A CLEAR

2:08:03EXAMPLE AND A CLEAR WAY OF

2:08:05DOING BUSINESS IN PORTLAND IS

2:08:06THE RIGHT STEP. SO I WANT TO

2:08:08APPRECIATE EVERYBODY WHO'S

2:08:09HELPED US WORK ON THIS. I WANT

2:08:11TO APPRECIATE MY TEAM IN

2:08:13PARTICULAR, WHO HELPED US GO

2:08:14THROUGH THE EACHES AND FOR A

2:08:17HEALTHY CONVERSATION. AND I

2:08:19LOOK FORWARD TO DEFENDING THIS

2:08:21AT CITY COUNCIL SO THAT WE CAN

2:08:23PROTECT PORTLAND CONSUMERS AS

2:08:25SOON AS POSSIBLE. THANK YOU,

2:08:27CHAIR.

2:08:27>> THANK YOU.

2:08:28>> COUNCILOR COUNCILOR MORILLO.

2:08:30>> THANK YOU. WITH REGARDS TO

2:08:33PROCESS, I DO HAVE TO ADDRESS

2:08:34THAT. WE HAD A BRIEF

2:08:36PRESENTATION LAST COMMITTEE,

2:08:37NOT REALLY ANY TIME FOR

2:08:39DISCUSSION. THIS WAS OUR BIG

2:08:40DISCUSSION IN COMMITTEE HEARING.

2:08:42WE HAVE HAD TWO HOURS TO

2:08:44DISCUSS ANTITRUST LAW, WHICH IS

2:08:46ONE OF THE MOST COMPLICATED

2:08:47AREAS OF LAW, FRANKLY, BECAUSE

2:08:49WE'RE TALKING ABOUT TECHNOLOGY

2:08:52AND WE'RE TALKING ABOUT A VERY

2:08:53COMPLICATED LEGAL AREA. AND YOU

2:08:56GUYS MADE THE ALGORITHMIC PRICE

2:08:57FIXING BAN GO THROUGH COMMITTEE

2:08:59THREE SEPARATE TIMES. I HAD TO

2:09:01RETURN IT BACK ONCE BECAUSE

2:09:02AGAIN, VERY COMPLICATED LEGAL

2:09:04AREA AND WE HAD TO PROTECT THE

2:09:05CITY FOR IT. I HEARD FROM MIKE

2:09:08SALVAGGIO UP THERE THAT HE WAS

2:09:09INTERESTED IN THE AMENDMENT AND

2:09:10WANTED TO BRING IT BACK TO HIS

2:09:12ATTORNEYS, AND THAT THEY NEEDED

2:09:14TO REVIEW A POTENTIAL OPTION.

2:09:16SO TO ME, THAT IS NOT SITTING

2:09:18WITH THE AMENDMENTS, THAT IS

2:09:19NOT PROCESSING ANY OF THE

2:09:21LANGUAGE, BUT WE'RE JUST MOVING

2:09:23IT OUT OF COMMITTEE, AS I

2:09:24THOUGHT WE WOULD. THAT'S FINE.

2:09:26WHAT THIS ORDINANCE LEAVES ON

2:09:27THE TABLE IS ESSENTIALLY

2:09:29CREATING A POLICY THAT IS THE

2:09:31SAME STICKER WITH DIFFERENT

2:09:33DISCOUNTS. SO TO A CONSUMER,

2:09:37THIS IS HOW KROGER, INSTACART

2:09:38AND DOORDASH ACTUALLY DO IT.

2:09:41THERE ARE DIFFERENT FEES.

2:09:42PREMIUM FEES ARE CARVED OUT,

2:09:44CARVED OUT OF THE RETAIL PRICE.

2:09:45AND A PERSONALIZED MANDATORY

2:09:46FEE IS NOWHERE IN THE

2:09:47DEFINITION SEGMENT. PRICING,

2:09:49WHICH IS A ZIP CODE OR DEVICE

2:09:51TYPE. THE BAND SAYS THAT A

2:09:53SPECIFIC CONSUMER ACCOUNT OR

2:09:55DEVICE, NOT A GROUP PRICING

2:09:58TESTS AND. AND JUST LIKE A LOT

2:10:00OF OTHER HOLES THAT ARE IN THIS

2:10:02POLICY. SO ANYTHING THE CITY

2:10:03CAN'T SEE BECAUSE THERE ARE NO

2:10:05RECORDS, THERE'S NO PRIVATE

2:10:06SUIT, $1,000 TOTAL FOR A FIRST

2:10:09OFFENSE AND NOTHING IF THE

2:10:10COMPANY STOPS WITHIN 45 DAYS.

2:10:13SO IF WE ARE TRYING TO SIGNAL

2:10:14TO THE LEGISLATURE THAT WE ARE

2:10:16SERIOUS ABOUT BANNING

2:10:17SURVEILLANCE PRICING AT THE

2:10:18CITY LEVEL, UNFORTUNATELY, WHAT

2:10:21WE ARE SIGNALING BY MOVING THIS

2:10:22FORWARD TODAY WITHOUT ANY

2:10:24CHANGES IS THAT WE ARE OKAY

2:10:26WITH MOVING FORWARD A MORE

2:10:28SYMBOLIC POLICY THAT DOES NOT

2:10:30ACTUALLY REMOVE THE LOOPHOLES

2:10:32THAT WOULD ACTUALLY STOP THIS.

2:10:34AND I'M REALLY SAD ABOUT THIS

2:10:36BECAUSE I THINK IT'S A REALLY

2:10:37COOL IDEA AND A REALLY

2:10:38IMPORTANT ISSUE. BUT BECAUSE OF

2:10:41THAT, I HAD TO EXPLAIN MYSELF

2:10:43PRETTY STRONGLY TO THE PUBLIC.

2:10:45WHO'S WATCHING THIS BECAUSE I

2:10:46WILL BE VOTING NO, AND I DON'T

2:10:48WANT IT TO BE MISCONSTRUED. WHY

2:10:50I CAN'T SUPPORT THIS TODAY.

2:10:51THANK YOU.

2:10:53>> THANK YOU.

2:10:54>> COUNCILOR MORILLO SEEING NO

2:10:55ONE ELSE IN THE QUEUE, WENDY,

2:10:56COULD YOU PLEASE CALL THE ROLL?

2:10:58>> THANK YOU. MAY HAVE A MOTION.

2:11:01SECOND.

2:11:02>> I BELIEVE. DIDN'T WE.

2:11:06>> MOVE IT FOR ADOPTION OF THE.

2:11:07>> FULL COUNCIL.

2:11:08>> MOTION IN A SECOND FROM

2:11:10ZIMMERMAN AND RYAN.

2:11:12>> AT THE BEGINNING.

2:11:12>> I THINK THAT WAS THE

2:11:14AMENDMENT. THANK YOU SO MUCH.

2:11:15>> I APOLOGIZE.

2:11:16>> THAT WAS ZIMMERMAN ONE. OKAY.

2:11:19>> MORILLO REGRETFULLY, NO.

2:11:23>> ZIMMERMAN I.

2:11:25>> AVALOS.

2:11:30>> YEAH, I FEEL CONFLICTED

2:11:32ABOUT THIS VOTE. I FEEL

2:11:36UNSATISFIED BY WHERE WE'RE

2:11:38LANDING AND FEEL THERE ARE SOME

2:11:40IMPORTANT GAPS. MY VOTE IS

2:11:43SYMBOLIC BECAUSE IT'S GOING TO

2:11:45PASS OUT. I'M GOING TO VOTE YES,

2:11:46BUT I RESERVE THE RIGHT TO

2:11:49REACH OUT. I WANT TO TALK TO

2:11:50THE STAKEHOLDERS AND SEE HOW WE

2:11:52CAN IMPROVE IT AS IT'S ON ITS

2:11:55WAY TO COUNCIL. SO I'LL VOTE

2:11:56YES NOW, BUT WITH SOME CONCERNS.

2:11:59THANKS.

2:12:01>> RYAN. I PIRTLE-GUINEY. I THE

2:12:06MOTION TO REFER IS THE

2:12:08ORDINANCE AS AMENDED IS

2:12:10APPROVED.

2:12:12>> OKAY.

2:12:12>> COLLEAGUES, WE ARE GOING TO

2:12:14TAKE A TEN MINUTE BREAK. WE

2:12:15HAVE TWO ITEMS LEFT ON THE

2:12:17AGENDA. I WILL BE TALKING TO

2:12:18OUR COLLEAGUES DURING THAT

2:12:19BREAK TO FIGURE OUT HOW MUCH

2:12:21TIME THEY NEED, AND IF WE MAY

2:12:22NEED TO MOVE ONE OF THESE ITEMS

2:12:24WHEN WE GET BACK. I WILL MAKE A

2:12:26QUICK ANNOUNCEMENT ABOUT WHAT

2:12:27WE'RE STILL MOVING FORWARD WITH

2:12:28TODAY SO THAT ANYBODY HERE FOR

2:12:30EITHER AGENDA ITEM 5 OR 6 HAS

2:12:32AS MUCH NOTICE AS POSSIBLE,

2:12:33PLEASE BE BACK HERE AT 417.

2:23:47THANK YOU ALL FOR BEING BACK.

2:23:48WE ARE GOING TO GO AHEAD AND

2:23:51RECONVENE. COUNCILOR ZIMMERMAN

2:23:55BELIEVES WE CAN GET THROUGH THE

2:23:56NEXT ITEM, WHICH IS OFFICE

2:23:57BROUGHT FORWARD QUITE QUICKLY.

2:23:59SO WE ARE GOING TO MOVE AHEAD,

2:24:00ASSUMING THAT WE WILL COMPLETE

2:24:02AGENDA ITEM FOUR AND AT LEAST

2:24:05BEGIN AGENDA ITEM FIVE. SO I'D

2:24:07ASK THAT EVERYBODY WHO IS HERE

2:24:08FOR BOTH OF THOSE ITEMS STAY.

2:24:12WENDY, COULD YOU PLEASE OPEN

2:24:13AGENDA ITEM FOUR FOR US? I'M

2:24:15SORRY. WE RENUMBERED FIVE AND

2:24:17SIX. AGENDA ITEM FIVE.

2:24:18>> YES. THANK YOU. I AM NUMBER

2:24:19FIVE. DOCUMENT NUMBER 2026-286.

2:24:22PROTECT PORTLAND FIREFIGHTERS

2:24:24FROM JOB RELATED RISKS.

2:24:26>> THANK YOU. AND THIS AGAIN

2:24:27COMES FROM COUNCILOR

2:24:29ZIMMERMAN'S OFFICE. COUNCILOR

2:24:30ZIMMERMAN, WOULD YOU LIKE TO

2:24:31INTRODUCE THIS ITEM BEFORE WE

2:24:32HEAR FROM OUR FIRE CHIEF?

2:24:34>> THANK YOU. I'D LIKE TO OPEN

2:24:36THIS ITEM BY NOTING THAT

2:24:38OCCUPATIONAL CANCER IS THE

2:24:40NUMBER ONE KILLER OF

2:24:42FIREFIGHTERS IN THE UNITED

2:24:43STATES. FIREFIGHTERS ARE NEARLY

2:24:4510% MORE LIKELY TO DEVELOP

2:24:46CANCER, AND ALMOST 15% MORE

2:24:49LIKELY TO DIE FROM CANCER THAN

2:24:50THE GENERAL PUBLIC. PFAS

2:24:53CHEMICALS HAVE HISTORICALLY

2:24:54BEEN ADDED TO PROTECTIVE GEAR

2:24:57TO SERVE AS A CRITICAL MOISTURE

2:25:00BARRIER. WHILE ADVANCES IN

2:25:01MATERIALS SCIENCE HAVE BEEN

2:25:02MADE AND THE AMOUNT OF PFAS

2:25:05REDUCED, PROTECTIVE GEAR

2:25:06REMAINS A SOURCE OF

2:25:08CARCINOGENIC EXPOSURE, PORTLAND

2:25:10FIREFIGHTERS NEED GEAR THAT

2:25:12SHIELDS AGAINST HAZARDS

2:25:13ENCOUNTERED ON THE JOB AND NOT

2:25:15GEAR THAT ADDS TO A KNOWN

2:25:17CANCER RISK. UNFORTUNATELY,

2:25:19PFAS FREE FIRE TURNOUTS ARE NOT

2:25:22YET COMMERCIALLY VIABLE.

2:25:24HOWEVER, TO ENSURE THAT THERE

2:25:26IS A QUICK TRANSITION ONCE

2:25:27THERE IS A VIABLE OPTION, I'M

2:25:30SEEKING TO ESTABLISH THE PFAS

2:25:32REPLACEMENT SUB FUND WITHIN THE

2:25:34PORTLAND FIRE AND, EXCUSE ME,

2:25:36FIRE AND RESCUE FIRE CAPITAL

2:25:39FUND SO WE CAN OFFSET LARGE ONE

2:25:42TIME COSTS OUTSIDE OF THE

2:25:43NORMAL FIVE YEAR CYCLE OF

2:25:44TURNOUT. REPLACEMENT FOR

2:25:45PORTLAND FIRE. WITH THAT, I

2:25:48WANT TO INVITE OUR CHIEF TO

2:25:51PRESENT TO US AND DESCRIBE A

2:25:52LITTLE BIT MORE ABOUT THE

2:25:54PROBLEM WE'RE SOLVING AND WHAT

2:25:55WE'D HOPE TO ACHIEVE. SO THANK

2:25:56YOU, COLLEAGUES, AND CHIEF

2:25:58JOHNSON.

2:26:01>> FOR THE OPPORTUNITY TO BE

2:26:03HERE WITH YOU TODAY. FOR THE

2:26:04RECORD, I'M LAUREN JOHNSON, THE

2:26:06FIRE CHIEF. I WANT TO THANK

2:26:07COUNCILOR COUNCILOR ZIMMERMAN

2:26:09FOR YOUR ADVOCACY AND TO LET

2:26:11YOU ALL KNOW THAT THIS

2:26:13RESOLUTION ALIGNS WITH

2:26:15PORTLAND'S CORE VALUES. I'LL

2:26:17GIVE MORE SPECIFIC DETAILS

2:26:19ABOUT PFAS IN THE REMAINDER OF

2:26:20THE PRESENTATION, BUT I WANTED

2:26:22TO HIGHLIGHT THAT COMMITTING TO

2:26:23A CHANGE THAT IMPROVES

2:26:25FIREFIGHTER HEALTH AND SAFETY

2:26:27AND MOVES TOWARD MORE

2:26:28SUSTAINABLE, ENVIRONMENTALLY

2:26:30FRIENDLY PRODUCT IS FISCALLY

2:26:32RESPONSIBLE, COLLABORATIVE, AND

2:26:33SIMPLY THE RIGHT THING TO DO.

2:26:35NEXT SLIDE PLEASE. SO I'LL

2:26:37START BY SHARING A BROAD

2:26:39OVERVIEW OF PFAS AND HOW

2:26:40THEY'RE IMPACTING FIREFIGHTERS.

2:26:43PFAS ARE A LARGE GROUP OF HUMAN

2:26:45MADE CHEMICALS. BY SOME

2:26:47DEFINITIONS, THERE ARE MORE

2:26:48THAN 3000 DIFFERENT TYPES, AND

2:26:50THEY'VE BEEN AROUND SINCE THE

2:26:51MID 20TH CENTURY. THEY'RE

2:26:53COMMONLY USED ON PRODUCTS THAT

2:26:55WE ALL ENCOUNTER IN DAILY LIFE.

2:26:57THEY'RE USED AS WATERPROOFING

2:26:59AND STAIN PROTECTION COATINGS.

2:27:01THEY'RE SOMETIMES REFERRED TO

2:27:03AS FOREVER CHEMICALS BECAUSE

2:27:04THEY DON'T READILY BREAK DOWN

2:27:06IN THE ENVIRONMENT OR IN THE

2:27:07HUMAN BODY. AND BECAUSE THEY'VE

2:27:09BEEN SO WIDELY USED FOR SO LONG,

2:27:11WE ENCOUNTER THEM EVERYWHERE,

2:27:13FROM THE GOODS ON OUR GROCERY

2:27:14STORE SHELVES TO THE PRODUCTS

2:27:16THAT WE USE AND WE WEAR, AND IN

2:27:18THE SOIL AND IN OUR WATER. AND

2:27:22UNFORTUNATELY, WE KNOW THAT

2:27:23FIREFIGHTERS HAVE HAD

2:27:23ADDITIONAL ROUTES OF PFAS

2:27:25EXPOSURE. FIREFIGHTING FOAM IS

2:27:28A PRODUCT THAT WE SPRAY THROUGH

2:27:29HOSES TO HELP EXTINGUISH FIRES,

2:27:31AND THE FOAM USED BY MOST FIRE

2:27:33DEPARTMENTS ACROSS THE COUNTRY

2:27:34HAS HISTORICALLY CONTAINED PFAS.

2:27:37RECENTLY, MANUFACTURING

2:27:39REQUIREMENTS HAS REMOVED PFAS

2:27:41FROM THE FOAM THAT'S BEEN

2:27:42PHASED OUT, BUT IT'S BEEN FOR A

2:27:45LONG TIME A PRIMARY SOURCE OF

2:27:46GROUNDWATER CONTAMINATION, AND

2:27:49CURRENT FIREFIGHTERS AND

2:27:50RETIREES HAVE BEEN EXPOSED TO A

2:27:52SIGNIFICANT AMOUNT JUST IN THE

2:27:54COURSE OF OUR DAILY DUTIES.

2:27:56SOME OCCUPATIONAL EXPOSURES ARE

2:27:58NOT CURRENTLY PREVENTABLE. THEY

2:28:00OCCUR DURING FIRE AND OTHER

2:28:02HAZARDOUS MATERIALS EMERGENCIES,

2:28:04AND SO DURING AND AFTER THESE

2:28:05ACTIVE FIRE RESPONSES, WE MAKE

2:28:07EVERY EFFORT TO MITIGATE THESE

2:28:09HAZARDS. AND I'LL EXPLAIN A

2:28:10LITTLE BIT MORE ABOUT THAT IN

2:28:12THE NEXT FEW SLIDES. AND

2:28:13FINALLY, PFAS, LIKE COUNCILOR

2:28:15MENTIONED, HAS BEEN

2:28:16HISTORICALLY PRESENT IN THE

2:28:17TURNOUT GEAR THAT WE WEAR. AND

2:28:19THIS IS BECAUSE IT IS A DURABLE

2:28:21WATER REPELLENT THAT'S APPLIED

2:28:22TO THE OUTER SHELL AND THE

2:28:23INNER LAYERS OF FIREFIGHTING

2:28:25GEAR. AND AS YOU CAN IMAGINE,

2:28:26IT'S CRITICAL THAT WE PROVIDE

2:28:28TURNOUT GEAR THAT CAN LET

2:28:30FIREFIGHTERS BODY HEAT AND

2:28:31SWEAT MOVE AWAY FROM OUR SKIN,

2:28:32BUT DOES NOT LET IN SUPERHEATED

2:28:35WATER AND MOISTURE OR

2:28:37CONTAMINANTS LIKE BLOOD AND

2:28:38CHEMICALS. NEXT SLIDE PLEASE.

2:28:41SO THESE SLIDES HAVE GIVEN YOU

2:28:43AN IDEA OF THE CHALLENGE THAT

2:28:44WE FACE WHEN IT COMES TO

2:28:45BALANCING FIREFIGHTER HEALTH

2:28:46AND WELLNESS AGAINST THE

2:28:48DANGERS ASSOCIATED WITH MEETING

2:28:49OUR MISSION OF EXTINGUISHING

2:28:51FIRES AND PRESERVING LIFE AND

2:28:52PROPERTY. COUNCILOR ZIMMERMAN'S

2:28:55RESOLUTION NOTES THAT THE

2:28:57STARTLING FACT THAT

2:28:58FIREFIGHTING HAS BEEN

2:28:59CATEGORIZED BY THE

2:29:00INTERNATIONAL AGENCY FOR

2:29:01RESEARCH ON CANCER AS A GROUP

2:29:04ONE CARCINOGEN. SO THAT'S THE

2:29:06HIGHEST RISK CATEGORY. AND IT'S

2:29:07THE SAME CATEGORY THAT TOBACCO

2:29:09SMOKE IS IN. FIREFIGHTER CANCER

2:29:12RATES HAVE BEEN INCREASING

2:29:13THROUGHOUT MY CAREER, AND FIRE

2:29:15DEPARTMENTS ARE MAKING BIG

2:29:16EFFORTS TO MITIGATE THE HAZARDS

2:29:18OF OCCUPATIONAL EXPOSURE. THESE

2:29:20EFFORTS INCLUDE CLEANING OUR

2:29:21APPARATUS AND GEAR AFTER EVERY

2:29:23FIRE AND WEARING OUR BREATHING

2:29:24APPARATUS FOR MUCH LONGER. AND

2:29:27THEY ALSO INCLUDE DOING

2:29:28EVERYTHING WE CAN TO ENCOURAGE

2:29:30MANUFACTURERS TO MAKE CHANGES

2:29:31TO TO THE CHEMICAL COMPOSITION

2:29:33OF THE TOOLS AND THE EQUIPMENT

2:29:34THAT WE USE. AND THE CHANGE IN

2:29:36FIREFIGHTING FOAM IS ONE

2:29:37EXAMPLE OF THIS KIND OF CHANGE.

2:29:39NEXT SLIDE PLEASE. ANOTHER

2:29:45MANUFACTURING CHANGE THAT

2:29:47FIREFIGHTERS ARE ADVOCATING FOR

2:29:50AND THAT THIS RESOLUTION

2:29:51SUPPORTS, IS TO COMPLETELY

2:29:52REMOVE PFAS FROM ALL LAYERS OF

2:29:54TURNOUT GEAR. THE WATERPROOFING

2:29:57PROPERTIES OF CERTAIN PFAS

2:29:58CURRENTLY PLAY AN IMPORTANT

2:30:00ROLE IN PROTECTING FIREFIGHTERS

2:30:01FROM CONTAMINANTS, ESPECIALLY

2:30:03PETROLEUM PRODUCTS AND

2:30:04BLOODBORNE PATHOGENS. AND

2:30:06THERE'S ALSO CERTAIN TYPES OF

2:30:08PFAS THAT CAN WITHSTAND

2:30:09EXPOSURE TO HARSH CHEMICALS AND

2:30:10TEMPERATURES AND MUST BE

2:30:12SUPERHEATED BEFORE THEY BEGIN

2:30:13TO DEGRADE OR OFFGAS. SO AS YOU

2:30:15CAN UNDERSTAND, THESE QUALITIES

2:30:17NEED A REALLY SPECIFIC NEED FOR

2:30:19FIREFIGHTER PROTECTIVE GEAR.

2:30:21AND THAT ALSO EXPLAINS WHY IT'S

2:30:23SO HARD TO FIND A SUITABLE

2:30:24REPLACEMENT. NEXT SLIDE PLEASE.

2:30:30MAYBE. THERE WE GO. SO IT'S

2:30:34IMPORTANT FOR YOU TO KNOW THAT

2:30:35WE'RE IN THE BEST TYPE OF

2:30:37PROTECTIVE GEAR, THE BEST

2:30:38SUITED GEAR FOR US AND OUR

2:30:40WORKING ENVIRONMENT RIGHT NOW.

2:30:42AND THAT REALLY MEANS THAT WE

2:30:43ASSESS THE WHAT WE DO IS WE

2:30:45TAKE THE TYPES OF RISKS AND

2:30:47CONDITIONS THAT WE'RE EXPOSED

2:30:48TO, AND THEN WE CHOOSE

2:30:49APPROPRIATELY MATCHED LEVELS OF

2:30:51PROTECTION. WHEN IT COMES TO

2:30:52TURNOUT GEAR, WE KNOW THAT OUR

2:30:55CURRENT TURNOUT GEAR CONTAINS

2:30:56PFAS IN ONE LAYER, IT'S

2:30:58COMPLETELY ENCAPSULATED. AND

2:31:00WHEN THIS PARTICULAR SETUP OF

2:31:02BUNKER GEAR IS STUDIED, WE DO

2:31:04NOT SEE FIREFIGHTERS BECOMING

2:31:06CONTAMINATED WITH THAT TYPE OF

2:31:07PFAS. HOWEVER, WE STILL

2:31:10MAINTAIN THE IMPORTANCE OF

2:31:11KEEPING GOOD HYGIENE PRACTICES

2:31:13IN PLACE SO THAT THE GEAR AND

2:31:14OUR MEMBERS GET CLEAN AFTER

2:31:15EACH FIRE. AND YOU CAN SEE HERE

2:31:18ON THIS SLIDE THAT THE

2:31:19PROFESSIONAL UNIONS, BOTH

2:31:22FIREFIGHTERS AND FIRE CHIEFS,

2:31:23HAVE FORMALLY CALLED FOR

2:31:24TURNOUT GEAR MANUFACTURERS TO

2:31:26DEVELOP GEAR THAT'S COMPLETELY

2:31:27FREE OF PFAS. AND SO WE'RE

2:31:30WATCHING AS THE TEXTILE

2:31:31ADVANCEMENTS TAKE PLACE SO THAT

2:31:32WE CAN BE READY TO BUY A NEW

2:31:34PRODUCT ONCE SAFETY AND

2:31:35PERFORMANCE STANDARDS ARE

2:31:36PROVEN. NEXT SLIDE PLEASE.

2:31:45GOODNESS, IT'S LIKE WE'VE GOT A

2:31:47GREMLIN IN THE SLIDES. SO THERE

2:31:50WE GO. THIS SLIDE DESCRIBES OUR

2:31:53CURRENT COSTS AND REPLACEMENT

2:31:54SCHEDULE. SO EACH SET OF

2:31:55TURNOUT GEAR IS APPROXIMATELY

2:31:58$4,500 IN TODAY'S DOLLARS. AND

2:32:00WE USUALLY BUY ABOUT 175 SETS

2:32:02EACH YEAR. THERE IS A MANDATORY

2:32:05RETIREMENT OF ALL TURNOUT GEAR

2:32:07TEN YEARS AFTER THE DATE OF

2:32:09MANUFACTURE. AND WITH OUR RATES

2:32:10OF WEAR AND TEAR, WE USUALLY

2:32:12GET ABOUT 7 TO 8 YEARS OUT OF A

2:32:14SET. PORTLAND HAS ACCOUNTED FOR

2:32:16AND PLANNED FOR THESE PURCHASES

2:32:17A FEW DIFFERENT WAYS, BUT

2:32:19WHAT'S RELEVANT FOR TODAY'S

2:32:20CONVERSATION IS THE IDEA OF THE

2:32:21SUB FUND. THE RESOLUTION THAT'S

2:32:24BEFORE YOU ESTABLISHES A PFAS

2:32:26REPLACEMENT SUB FUND THAT WOULD

2:32:27ALLOW GENERAL FUND UNDERSPEND

2:32:29TO BE SAVED IN PREPARATION FOR

2:32:31A WHOLESALE TRANSITION TO PFAS

2:32:33FREE GEAR. NEXT SLIDE PLEASE.

2:32:39SO I APPRECIATE THE WORK THAT

2:32:41THE COUNSELOR'S OFFICE DID TO

2:32:42CAREFULLY CRAFT THIS RESOLUTION

2:32:44SO THAT IT DOES PROVIDE FOR A

2:32:47RESPONSIBLE PATH FORWARD. WE'RE

2:32:48COMMITTED TO GIVING THE CITY

2:32:50ADMINISTRATOR ANNUAL UPDATES ON

2:32:51THE TIMELINE, CHALLENGES AND

2:32:53PROJECTED COSTS FOR THE

2:32:55TRANSITIONING TO PFAS FREE GEAR,

2:32:57AND WE'VE EMPHASIZED THAT

2:32:59THERE'S NOT CURRENTLY ENOUGH

2:33:00DATA TO SHOW THAT THERE'S A

2:33:01SUITABLE ALTERNATIVE FOR

2:33:03PORTLAND FIRE TO CHANGE INTO.

2:33:05WE WANT TO BE SURE TO AVOID

2:33:06WHAT'S KNOWN AS A REGRETTABLE

2:33:08SUBSTITUTION, WHICH IS WHEN A

2:33:09HAZARDOUS SUBSTANCE IS REPLACED

2:33:11WITH ANOTHER THAT IS EQUALLY OR

2:33:13EVEN MORE HARMFUL. AND THAT

2:33:15USUALLY HAPPENS BECAUSE OF

2:33:16INCOMPLETE HAZARD ANALYSIS OR

2:33:18REGULATORY GAPS. AN EXAMPLE

2:33:19THAT MANY OF YOU MAY REMEMBER

2:33:21IS WITH BPA REPLACEMENTS. SO

2:33:24WHEN THIS MOVE HAPPENED,

2:33:25BISPHENOL A WAS REPLACED WITH

2:33:28BISPHENOL S AND BISPHENOL F,

2:33:29AND THEN THE SCIENCE SHOWED

2:33:30THAT THOSE ALTERNATIVES REALLY

2:33:32HAD SIMILAR HEALTH HAZARDS

2:33:35COMPARED TO THE ORIGINAL

2:33:36SUBSTANCE THAT THEY HAD

2:33:37REPLACED. SO OBVIOUSLY A

2:33:39PREMATURE MOVE LIKE THAT WOULD

2:33:40DAMAGE TRUST, BE EXPENSIVE TO

2:33:43OVERCOME, AND COULD RESULT IN

2:33:44WORSE SAFETY OUTCOMES FOR

2:33:46FIREFIGHTERS. AND THAT LEADS ME

2:33:48TO THE LAST POINT ON THIS SLIDE,

2:33:50WHICH IS THAT I BELIEVE THIS

2:33:51RESOLUTION HAS THE RIGHT

2:33:53BALANCE OF DIRECTION AND

2:33:54PATIENCE SO THAT PORTLAND FIRE

2:33:56IS PREPARED TO TRANSITION WHEN

2:33:58PFAS FREE GEAR IS PROVEN AND

2:34:00READILY AVAILABLE. AND IF IT'LL

2:34:03GIVE IT TO US, HOW ABOUT THE

2:34:04NEXT SLIDE? THERE WE GO. OKAY,

2:34:07SO I WANT TO CLOSE BY

2:34:09SUMMARIZING WHAT THIS

2:34:10RESOLUTION DOES. IT AFFIRMS

2:34:11YOUR SUPPORT FOR PORTLAND

2:34:13FIREFIGHTERS HEALTH AND SAFETY.

2:34:15IT DIRECTS US TO MONITOR THE

2:34:17SCIENCE AND CHANGES ASSOCIATED

2:34:18WITH PFAS FREE TURNOUT GEAR. IT

2:34:21REQUIRES A CHANGE TO PFAS FREE

2:34:23GEAR ONCE IT'S PROVEN TO BE

2:34:24SAFE AND EFFECTIVE, AND IT

2:34:27ESTABLISHES THE SUB FUND TO

2:34:28HELP SPREAD THE COSTS OF THIS

2:34:30TRANSITION OUT OVER SEVERAL

2:34:31YEARS, PROVIDED THAT THERE IS

2:34:33UNDERSPEND. AND FINALLY, IT HAS

2:34:35AN ACCOUNTABILITY PIECE BUILT

2:34:36IN WHERE ANNUAL REPORTING IS

2:34:38REQUIRED FROM THE BUREAU TO THE

2:34:39CA, AND THEN FROM THE CA TO

2:34:41COUNCIL. NEXT SLIDE PLEASE. SO

2:34:44THAT'S THE LAST SLIDE FOR ME,

2:34:46AND I WANT TO THANK YOU ALL FOR

2:34:48YOUR SERVICE HERE ON THE

2:34:49COMMITTEE. I DON'T USUALLY GET

2:34:50TO SEE THIS PARTICULAR GROUP,

2:34:52BUT THANK YOU FOR THAT AND YOUR

2:34:54SERVICE TO COUNCIL OVERALL, BUT

2:34:56ALSO SPECIFICALLY FOR CALLING

2:34:58ATTENTION TO FIREFIGHTER HEALTH

2:34:59AND IDENTIFYING A WAY TO

2:35:01SUPPORT OUR SAFETY. HAPPY TO

2:35:02ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS.

2:35:06>> THANK YOU.

2:35:06>> CHIEF COUNCILOR ZIMMERMAN.

2:35:07DID YOU HAVE ANYTHING TO CLOSE

2:35:09WITH?

2:35:09>> THANKS, CHIEF, FOR SPENDING

2:35:10YOUR TIME WITH US. YOU'RE A

2:35:12VERY BUSY PERSON, SO I

2:35:13APPRECIATE IT. COLLEAGUES. WHAT

2:35:14WE'RE REALLY SEEING HERE IS THE

2:35:17THE DEPARTMENT HAS. ONCE THIS

2:35:19TECHNOLOGY BECOMES AVAILABLE,

2:35:20THE ABILITY TO MAKE THOSE

2:35:22REGULAR NEW PURCHASES EACH EACH

2:35:25YEAR OR SO AS THINGS EXPIRE,

2:35:27WHAT WE'RE REALLY TALKING ABOUT

2:35:28IS CAN WE CARVE OUT THE ABILITY

2:35:31FOR THEM TO MAKE A LARGER

2:35:33PURCHASE SO THAT IT'S WHEN THAT

2:35:34WHEN THAT TECHNOLOGY IS

2:35:36AVAILABLE AND THE GARMENTS ARE

2:35:38READY SO THAT WE'RE NOT IN A 5

2:35:40TO 7 YEAR CYCLE OF WAITING

2:35:42BEFORE EVERYBODY IN THE

2:35:43DEPARTMENT HAS A NEW SET OF

2:35:44TURNOUTS. AND SO THAT'S REALLY

2:35:46THE MEAT OF WHAT WE'RE TALKING

2:35:47ABOUT. AND IT COMES FROM

2:35:48SAVINGS WITHIN THEIR OWN

2:35:49DEPARTMENT YEAR OVER YEAR. AND

2:35:50SO I APPRECIATE YOUR

2:35:52ENTERTAINING OF THIS RESOLUTION.

2:35:54>> THANK YOU, COUNCILOR.

2:35:56>> WENDY, DO WE HAVE ANYBODY

2:35:57SIGNED UP TO TESTIFY?

2:36:00>> NO, WE DON'T HAVE ANYONE.

2:36:02>> OKAY, THEN LET'S MOVE RIGHT

2:36:03INTO DISCUSSION. COUNCILOR

2:36:04AVALOS.

2:36:06>> YEAH, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR

2:36:07YOUR PRESENTATION. JUST A

2:36:11COUPLE OF LOGISTICAL QUESTIONS.

2:36:14SO AS IT RELATES TO THE AMOUNT

2:36:18OF THE FUTURE TRANSITION, DO WE

2:36:20HAVE A RANGE FOR WHAT A

2:36:23WHOLESALE TRANSITION COULD

2:36:24ULTIMATELY COST COMPARED TO THE

2:36:26ROUGHLY 787 K THAT WE'RE

2:36:28ALREADY SPENDING ANNUALLY ON

2:36:29REPLACEMENT GEAR?

2:36:30>> YEAH.

2:36:30>> I CAN I'M AWFUL AT MATH, BUT

2:36:34I CAN DO THAT CALCULATION. IT

2:36:37WOULD IN TODAY'S DOLLARS, IF WE

2:36:39DID 4500 BY 700 FIREFIGHTERS,

2:36:43THAT'S WHAT WE WOULD GET FOR A

2:36:45TOTAL FOR EVERYBODY TO GET INTO

2:36:47ONE SET. WE ACTUALLY HAVE TWO

2:36:49SETS JUST FOR LOGISTICS. ONCE

2:36:52THEY WEAR THEIR A SET AND IT'S

2:36:54BECOME STURDY BECAUSE OF AN

2:36:56EXPOSURE, THEY SWAP INTO A B

2:36:57SET WHILE THE A SET GETS WASHED.

2:37:04>> AND THEN THIS IS A SINCE

2:37:06THIS IS A RESOLUTION. SO THIS

2:37:08IS ABOUT TELLING THE. I GUESS

2:37:11HELP ME UNDERSTAND THE PART

2:37:13ABOUT LIKE SETTING ASIDE MONEY,

2:37:15YOU KNOW, GENERAL FUND

2:37:16UNDERSPEND. IS IT THAT WE'RE

2:37:18TELLING THE MAYOR THAT AS HE

2:37:20PREPARES THE FIRST BUDGET THAT,

2:37:22YOU KNOW, IF THERE'S UNDERSPEND,

2:37:23THAT WE'RE PUTTING IT INTO A

2:37:25POT, LIKE JUST HELP ME

2:37:26UNDERSTAND THE LOGISTICS OF

2:37:27THAT. YEAH, GREAT.

2:37:28>> IT'S ESSENTIALLY IT'S

2:37:30ESTABLISHING OR I GUESS IT'S A

2:37:32RESOLUTION ASKING AND DIRECTING

2:37:34THE ADMINISTRATION TO ESTABLISH

2:37:35THE FUND. AND LIKE A LOT OF

2:37:37FINANCIAL POLICIES, THINGS LIKE

2:37:39WE USE 50% OF OUR ONE TIME ON

2:37:41CAPITAL OR WE USE IT. THIS IS

2:37:43ESSENTIALLY ONE OF THOSE TYPES

2:37:45OF POLICIES. AND SO OUR I WOULD

2:37:47SAY IF THE COUNCIL PASSES THIS,

2:37:49THE GOAL WOULD BE THAT WE WOULD

2:37:50SEE. WE WOULD SEE A BUDGET

2:37:54CRAFTED BY THE ADMINISTRATION

2:37:55THAT RECOGNIZES THIS RESOLUTION,

2:37:58AND IT RECOGNIZES THE YEAR END

2:38:02SAVINGS OR UNDERSPEND OF THE OF

2:38:04THE BUREAU AND FRONT LOADS THAT

2:38:07INTO THIS SUBFUND KEEPING THOSE.

2:38:08WHAT WE'RE FIRE FUNDS KEEPING

2:38:10THEM IN FIRE, BUT JUST FOR USE

2:38:11AT A LATER DATE.

2:38:13>> IS THAT SOMETHING I GUESS

2:38:14LIKE THAT'S BINDING TO US? LIKE,

2:38:17WOULD WE LOOK AT THAT AND SAY,

2:38:19BECAUSE ALL, ALL BUREAUS HAVE

2:38:20UNDERSPEND TO SOME EXTENT, AND

2:38:22THAT ALL KIND OF KIND OF JUST

2:38:24IS COLOR MONEY AND IT GETS PUT

2:38:25RANDOM PLACES, I GUESS I'M

2:38:27TRYING TO UNDERSTAND HOW IS IT

2:38:28GOING TO SHOW UP TO US? LIKE,

2:38:30IS IT ON THE MAYOR'S LEVEL? IS

2:38:32IT ON OUR LEVEL? DO WE NEED TO

2:38:34TAKE A CERTAIN ACTION BASED ON

2:38:35THIS RESOLUTION IN THE NEXT

2:38:36BUDGET THAT SAYS, WE'VE ALREADY

2:38:38AGREED THAT THIS MONEY CAN'T BE

2:38:39PUT TOWARDS OTHER THINGS?

2:38:40>> I THINK IT'S MORE OF A

2:38:42SIGNALING OF A SET OF

2:38:43PRIORITIES AND VALUES THAN IT

2:38:45IS A HARD AND FAST. WE CAN

2:38:46ALWAYS, AS THE BUDGET COMMITTEE,

2:38:48I BELIEVE THE BUDGET COMMITTEE

2:38:49CAN ALWAYS SAY, WE'RE CHOOSING

2:38:50TO NOT FOLLOW THAT RESOLUTION

2:38:51THAT WE PASSED FOR THESE

2:38:52REASONS, BUT IT ALLOWS US TO

2:38:54SIGNAL WHERE WE WHERE WE CAN

2:38:56AND WHERE WE DO WANT IT TO GO.

2:38:58IT'S NOT INTERRUPTING THE

2:38:59BUDGET CYCLE, IT IS JUST

2:39:01CREATING A PLACE THAT IF THIS

2:39:02COUNCIL WANTS TO SIGNAL AND SET

2:39:05ASIDE MONEY THAT IT CAN IN THE

2:39:07IN THE UPCOMING BUDGETS PROCESS.

2:39:10>> OKAY. AND THEN, CHIEF, YOU

2:39:12HAD MENTIONED THE COST OF

2:39:16$4,500, RIGHT, FOR THE

2:39:17EQUIPMENT. I GUESS MAYBE I WAS

2:39:18GETTING CONFUSED IS THE

2:39:20ALTERNATIVE OR THE THING THAT

2:39:21WE'RE WORKING TOWARDS ALREADY

2:39:23AVAILABLE? WE JUST CAN'T AFFORD

2:39:24IT OR IT HASN'T BEEN CREATED

2:39:25YET.

2:39:26>> SO IT'S A LITTLE BIT OF BOTH.

2:39:27THERE IS ONE MANUFACTURER THAT

2:39:29CLAIMS TO BE COMPLETELY PFAS

2:39:32FREE. SO IN THE INDUSTRY WE'RE

2:39:34LOOKING FOR MORE TESTING.

2:39:36THAT'S THIRD PARTY TESTING TO

2:39:38VERIFY. AND I WOULD JUST SAY

2:39:39THE MARKET ISN'T THERE YET. SO

2:39:41THERE'S NO COMPETITION FOR THAT

2:39:45PARTICULAR SET OF TURNOUT GEAR

2:39:47THAT'S MARKETED AS PFAS FREE.

2:39:49SO WE REALLY NEED THAT TO

2:39:51EVOLVE A LITTLE BIT MORE TO

2:39:52MAKE SURE WHAT WE HAVE SEEN THE

2:39:55OUTER. SO THERE'S THREE LAYERS

2:39:56TO THE GARMENT. THE OUTER SHELL

2:39:58USED TO HAVE PFAS FREE. THAT'S

2:40:00WHERE WE NEEDED MOST OF THE

2:40:01WATER SHEDDING TO HAPPEN. AND

2:40:03ALL MANUFACTURERS HAVE GOTTEN

2:40:04RID OF PFAS. AND THAT OUTER

2:40:06SHELL AND WHAT WE'RE SEEING IS

2:40:08A FASTER WEAR AND TEAR, BECAUSE

2:40:09YOU DON'T HAVE THE SAME

2:40:10PROTECTION. AND FOR

2:40:12FIREFIGHTERS, WHAT THAT

2:40:13TRANSLATES TO IS MORE HEAT

2:40:15COMING THROUGH A GREATER RATE

2:40:17OF BURNS, A SHORTER LIFE OF

2:40:19THAT GARMENT THAT SHOULD LAST

2:40:21TEN YEARS. MAYBE IT ONLY LASTS

2:40:23FIVE NOW. SO WE NEED THAT

2:40:25TECHNOLOGY TO IMPROVE BEFORE

2:40:27IT'S THE RIGHT CHOICE FOR

2:40:28PORTLAND.

2:40:29>> I SEE. AND THEN SO ARE YOU

2:40:31SAYING, I GUESS, WHERE'S THAT

2:40:32TRIGGER OF LIKE WHEN WE DECIDE

2:40:34THE TECHNOLOGY IS GOOD? LIKE,

2:40:36IS THAT SOMETHING YOU'RE GOING

2:40:37TO MAKE A CALL ON? IS IT THAT

2:40:39AND WHAT IF THE MARKET DOES NOT

2:40:41PRODUCE MORE ALTERNATIVES? LIKE,

2:40:42IS THERE GOING TO BE A POINT

2:40:44WHERE WE SAY WE CAN'T KEEP

2:40:45WAITING FOR THE MARKET TO

2:40:46PRODUCE NEW THINGS? SO WE'RE

2:40:48GOING TO GO WITH THIS CURRENT

2:40:49THING.

2:40:49>> SO I WOULD SAY I'M NOT SURE.

2:40:51I THINK THAT IT'S IMPORTANT FOR

2:40:53US TO REPORT EVERY YEAR TO THE

2:40:55CA, KIND OF WHAT THE STATUS OF

2:40:56THE MARKET IS. I DO WANT TO BE

2:40:58CLEAR THAT THE GEAR THAT WE'RE

2:41:00IN RIGHT NOW, WE DON'T HAVE

2:41:01CONCERNS IS SHEDDING. WE DO

2:41:03BELIEVE THAT THAT PFAS IS SAFE.

2:41:06AND AS IT'S CONTAINED, BUT LONG

2:41:09TERM, RIGHT. I THINK AS A CITY,

2:41:11WE HAVE CONCERNS ABOUT WANTING

2:41:12TO MAKE SURE THAT WE SUPPORT

2:41:15PURCHASES THAT ARE MORE

2:41:17ENVIRONMENTALLY FRIENDLY. AND

2:41:18SO I THINK YOU'RE GOING TO SEE

2:41:19THE CITY AND STATE LARGELY

2:41:20MOVING AWAY FROM PFAS AS. SO

2:41:23THAT COULD FORCE A CHANGE,

2:41:25RIGHT? WE SAW THAT HAPPEN IN

2:41:26CALIFORNIA. BUT WHAT I WOULD

2:41:29LIKE IN TERMS OF MAINTAINING,

2:41:30YOU KNOW, A PRETTY HIGH

2:41:32STANDARD FOR FIREFIGHTER SAFETY

2:41:33IS THAT WE CONTINUE TO REPORT

2:41:35TO YOU GUYS. HERE'S HOW THE

2:41:36MARKET'S CHANGING. AND ONCE YOU

2:41:38SEE OTHER FIRE DEPARTMENTS THAT

2:41:39ARE SIMILAR TO PORTLAND MAKING

2:41:41THIS MOVE, AND WE WATCH THOSE

2:41:44WHERE TEST TRIALS SO THAT WE

2:41:46KNOW HOW IT'S IMPACTING THEIR

2:41:47FIRES, THEN WE'LL BE READY TO

2:41:48PULL THE TRIGGER. AND I THINK

2:41:51JUST TO SPEAK TO THE SUB FUND

2:41:53PLACE, YOU KNOW, NORMALLY WE

2:41:54WOULD HAVE TO TURN ANY SAVINGS

2:41:58IN ANY SAVINGS OVER, RIGHT? WE

2:41:59DON'T GET TO CARRY THAT YEAR

2:42:01OVER YEAR. ONE THING THAT THIS

2:42:02COULD REALLY HELP US WITH IS IF

2:42:05WE KNOW THAT THAT SUITABLE

2:42:07ALTERNATIVE IS ON THE HORIZON,

2:42:09WE MIGHT HOLD BACK A YEAR OR

2:42:10TWO FROM PURCHASING THE REGULAR

2:42:13AMOUNT OF SETS THAT WE NEED. WE

2:42:15USUALLY DO, WE MIGHT SAY,

2:42:16INSTEAD OF THE 175, LET'S ONLY

2:42:18BUY 100 BECAUSE WE REALLY THINK

2:42:20THIS IS JUST AROUND THE CORNER,

2:42:21AND THAT'S WHERE WE COULD USE

2:42:24THAT, LIKE THIS MECHANISM TO

2:42:26HELP US FOR THE NEXT YEAR.

2:42:28>> WONDERFUL. THANK YOU. THAT'S

2:42:29ALL.

2:42:29>> YES, MA'AM.

2:42:30>> THANK YOU. COUNCILOR.

2:42:31COUNCILOR. MORILLO.

2:42:33>> THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR BEING

2:42:35HERE TO PRESENT ON THIS. THIS

2:42:37SEEMS LIKE A PRETTY SIMPLE YES

2:42:38TO ME. YOU KNOW, IT'S VERY

2:42:40COMMON SENSE THAT WE SHOULD

2:42:41PROTECT OUR FIREFIGHTERS FROM

2:42:42PFAS. MY UNDERSTANDING OF THE

2:42:44POLICY, JUST FOR CLARITY, BASED

2:42:45ON SOME OF COUNCILOR AVALOS

2:42:47QUESTIONS, IS THAT THIS IS A

2:42:49LITTLE BIT MORE SIGNALING

2:42:51INTENT FOR THE FUTURE, BECAUSE

2:42:53IT DOESN'T NECESSARILY DO

2:42:54ANYTHING OR HOLD US TO ANYTHING

2:42:55TODAY SINCE THE TECHNOLOGY

2:42:56ISN'T AVAILABLE. SO THIS IS

2:42:58JUST SAYING THIS IS SOMETHING

2:42:59WE WANT TO DO IF WE CAN. SO IT

2:43:02SEEMS LIKE AN EASY YES. THANKS.

2:43:03>> THANK YOU.

2:43:05>> THANK YOU.

2:43:06>> COUNCILOR. MORILLO.

2:43:08COUNCILOR ZIMMERMAN. I'M

2:43:10LOOKING OUT AND WE DON'T HAVE

2:43:11ANYBODY FROM OUR FINANCE OFFICE

2:43:13HERE TODAY. BUT WHEN THIS COMES

2:43:16FORWARD TO COUNCIL, IF IT

2:43:17PASSES OUT OF COMMITTEE TODAY,

2:43:19CAN YOU MAKE SURE THAT WE HAVE

2:43:20SOME INFORMATION ABOUT WHAT

2:43:22OTHER FINANCIAL POLICIES WE

2:43:24HAVE THAT THIS WOULD, I HATE TO

2:43:27SAY, COME INTO CONFLICT WITH,

2:43:29BUT WHAT ARE OTHER THINGS WHERE

2:43:30WE SAY UNDERSPEND SHOULD GO TO

2:43:33X? BECAUSE I KNOW WE HAVE A FEW

2:43:34POLICIES LIKE THAT. THIS SEEMS

2:43:36LIKE A NO BRAINER TO SUPPORT TO

2:43:37ME, BUT I DO THINK THE CONTEXT

2:43:39IS IMPORTANT OF UNDERSTANDING

2:43:40WHAT ELSE WE'VE SAID THAT ABOUT.

2:43:42AS WE MOVE IT FORWARD.

2:43:43>> WE'LL DO.

2:43:44>> THANK YOU. I APPRECIATE THAT,

2:43:45COUNCILOR RYAN.

2:43:46>> YES.

2:43:46>> THANK YOU, CHAIR, AND THANK

2:43:48YOU, COUNCILOR ZIMMERMAN AND

2:43:49CHIEF JOHNSON. IT'S GOOD TO SEE

2:43:50YOU. YOU TOO. AND I JUST WANT

2:43:52TO SAY THIS IS A VERY PROACTIVE

2:43:54DAY FOR YOU. COUNCILOR

2:43:55ZIMMERMAN, YOU'RE MAKING SURE

2:43:56THAT WE'RE ON AHEAD OF THE

2:43:58CURVE. AND THIS I ALSO WANT TO

2:44:00THANK YOU FOR EDUCATING THE

2:44:01PUBLIC ON THIS TOPIC. COMING

2:44:04HERE DOES THAT. AND I KNOW THAT

2:44:06YOU'RE IN COMPLETE AGREEMENT

2:44:08AND ALIGNMENT WITH LABORERS. SO

2:44:09IT'S KIND OF THE SECOND ITEM IN

2:44:11A ROW WHERE WE'VE HAD

2:44:12MANAGEMENT AND LABOR COME

2:44:13TOGETHER, WHICH IS ALWAYS A

2:44:15GOOD SIGN THAT WE'RE PROBABLY

2:44:16SUPPOSED TO MOVE SOMETHING

2:44:17ALONG. AND THANK YOU SO MUCH. I

2:44:20LEARNED A LOT AND I'M EXCITED

2:44:21TO MOVE THIS ALONG.

2:44:22>> THANK YOU. THANK YOU,

2:44:25COUNCILOR COLLEAGUES.

2:44:27>> NO ONE ELSE IN THE QUEUE.

2:44:28CHIEF, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR

2:44:30BEING HERE AND FOR ALL OF THE

2:44:32INFORMATION.

2:44:32>> AND MOVE.

2:44:34>> TO MOVE THE RESOLUTION TO

2:44:35COUNCIL WITH RECOMMENDATION FOR

2:44:37FULL ADOPTION.

2:44:38>> SECOND.

2:44:39>> OKAY. WENDY, COULD.

2:44:40>> YOU PLEASE CALL THE ROLL?

2:44:42>> MORILLO. AYE, MORILLO

2:44:45ZIMMERMAN.

2:44:45>> AYE, MORILLO.

2:44:47>> AVALOS. RYAN.

2:44:49>> AYE, MORILLO. PIRTLE-GUINEY

2:44:52I.

2:44:52>> THE MOTION IS APPROVED.

2:44:55>> GREAT.

2:44:56>> THAT MOVES US TO OUR LAST

2:44:57ITEM ON THE AGENDA. I WOULD

2:44:59LIKE US TO START THIS ITEM, GET

2:45:01THROUGH THE PRESENTATION, AND

2:45:02IF WE CAN GET TO A VOTE,

2:45:04FANTASTIC. BUT IF NOT, WE WILL

2:45:05AT LEAST HAVE BEGUN THE WORK. I

2:45:07KNOW WE HAVE A FEW GUESTS HERE

2:45:09TODAY FOR IT. WENDY, COULD YOU

2:45:10PLEASE CALL AGENDA ITEM SIX?

2:45:12>> YES. THANK YOU. ITEM NUMBER

2:45:13SIX. DOCUMENT NUMBER 2026-309.

2:45:17SUPPORT THE PRESERVATION OF

2:45:18COURT ACCESS TO PROTECT

2:45:20TAXPAYERS FROM EXTREME WEATHER

2:45:21COSTS.

2:45:23>> OKAY.

2:45:24>> COUNCILOR. NOVICK. THANK YOU

2:45:25FOR YOUR PATIENCE WITH US TODAY.

2:45:27I KNOW WE'RE RUNNING A LITTLE

2:45:29BIT BEHIND, BUT YOU HAVE

2:45:30BROUGHT THIS ITEM FORWARD FROM

2:45:32YOUR OFFICE. WOULD YOU LIKE TO

2:45:33GIVE US AN OVERVIEW?

2:45:35>> THANK YOU. CHAIR

2:45:38PIRTLE-GUINEY MEMBERS OF THE

2:45:39COMMITTEE. MY NAME IS STEVE

2:45:40NOVAK. THANKS FOR THE

2:45:41OPPORTUNITY TO BE BEFORE YOU

2:45:42TODAY. THE RESOLUTION I BRING

2:45:45TO YOU TODAY, IT DENOUNCES

2:45:48LEGISLATION THAT SOME

2:45:49REPUBLICANS HAVE PROPOSED IN

2:45:51THE US HOUSE AND SENATE. NOW, I

2:45:54REALIZE THAT WE COULD SPEND

2:45:55EVERY MINUTE OF EVERY WEEK

2:45:57DENOUNCING LEGISLATION THAT

2:45:58REPUBLICANS HAVE INTRODUCED IN

2:46:00THE HOUSE AND SENATE. AND I

2:46:01DON'T WANT TO OPEN THE

2:46:02FLOODGATES. BUT WHEN BREACH

2:46:03COLLECTIVE CAME TO ME

2:46:04SUGGESTING I BRING THIS

2:46:05RESOLUTION, THERE ARE A COUPLE

2:46:07OF FACTORS THAT MADE ME LESS

2:46:08WORRIED ABOUT OPENING THE

2:46:09FLOODGATES. A NUMBER OF

2:46:15JURISDICTIONS AROUND THE

2:46:15COUNTRY, STATES, CITIES AND

2:46:17COUNTIES, INCLUDING MULTNOMAH

2:46:18COUNTY, HAVE BROUGHT LAWSUITS

2:46:20AGAINST THE FOSSIL FUEL

2:46:22INDUSTRY TO HOLD THEM

2:46:23ACCOUNTABLE FOR DAMAGES CAUSED

2:46:24BY CLIMATE CHANGE. THE LAWSUITS

2:46:26FOCUS ON THE DECEPTIVE CONDUCT

2:46:28OF THE FOSSIL FUEL COMPANIES.

2:46:31THE RESOLUTION YOU SEE IN FRONT

2:46:32OF YOU QUOTES LIBERALLY FROM

2:46:34THE COMPLAINT FILED BY THE

2:46:36STATE OF DELAWARE, WHICH

2:46:38DETAILS THAT AS FAR BACK AS

2:46:411959, THE FOSSIL FUEL COMPANIES

2:46:43KNEW EVERYTHING THEY NEED TO

2:46:44KNOW ABOUT CLIMATE CHANGE AND

2:46:46KEPT ON PRETENDING FOR DECADES

2:46:48THAT IT WASN'T REAL. ONE OF THE

2:46:50REASONS I WANTED TO BRING THIS

2:46:52RESOLUTION, ACTUALLY, IS JUST

2:46:53TO GIVE PEOPLE THE OPPORTUNITY

2:46:55TO READ THE DELAWARE ELEMENTS

2:46:56OF THE DELAWARE COMPLAINT.

2:47:00RIGHT NOW, THERE IS LEGISLATION

2:47:03IN THE HOUSE AND SENATE UNDER

2:47:05THE NAME STOP CLIMATE

2:47:08SHAKEDOWNS ACT, TO PREEMPT ALL

2:47:11OF THESE CASES, TO SAY THAT

2:47:13STATES, CITIES, COUNTIES CANNOT

2:47:16BRING SUCH CASES AGAINST THE

2:47:17FOSSIL FUEL COMPANIES. SO ONE

2:47:20OF THE REASONS I THOUGHT IT WAS

2:47:22APPROPRIATE DURING THIS

2:47:23RESOLUTION IS THAT THIS

2:47:24LEGISLATION WOULD DIRECTLY

2:47:25AFFECT OUR ABILITY TO ACT IF WE

2:47:28EVER DECIDED TO JOIN MULTNOMAH

2:47:30COUNTY OR BRING OUR OWN LAWSUIT

2:47:31AGAINST THE FOSSIL FUEL

2:47:33COMPANIES, THIS WOULD STOP US

2:47:34FROM DOING THAT. ANOTHER REASON,

2:47:36FRANKLY, THAT THIS RESOLUTION

2:47:38APPEALED TO ME IS THAT IN MY

2:47:39LAST JOB WITH THE OREGON STATE

2:47:40ATTORNEY GENERAL'S OFFICE, WE

2:47:42WERE PART OF COALITIONS THAT

2:47:44THAT WERE CONSTANTLY FILING

2:47:46AMICUS BRIEFS DEFENDING THE

2:47:48RIGHT OF CITIES AND COUNTIES

2:47:49AND STATES TO BRING THESE SUITS

2:47:51IN STATE COURT. WHAT WAS

2:47:53USUALLY GOING ON WAS THE FOSSIL

2:47:54FUEL COMPANIES WERE TRYING TO

2:47:56REMOVE THE SUITS TO FEDERAL

2:47:58COURT. WE WERE GOING IN AND

2:47:59SAYING, NO, THIS THESE SUITS

2:48:01SHOULD PROBABLY BE BROUGHT IN

2:48:02STATE COURT. SO BRINGING THIS

2:48:05RESOLUTION STRUCK ME AS KIND OF

2:48:06A CONTINUATION OF WORK THAT I

2:48:07WAS DOING IN MY LAST JOB. SO

2:48:10THIS, I MEAN, I WOULD HOPE IS A

2:48:12NO BRAINER. WE SHOULD MAINTAIN

2:48:13OUR RIGHTS AT CITY STATES AND

2:48:15COUNTIES, SHOULD MAINTAIN OUR

2:48:16RIGHT TO GO TO COURT TO SEEK

2:48:18REDRESS OF GRIEVANCES. THERE

2:48:19SHOULD NOT BE A SPECIAL CARVE

2:48:21OUT FOR THE FOSSIL FUEL

2:48:22COMPANIES. SO I ASK FOR YOUR

2:48:24SUPPORT FOR THIS RESOLUTION.

2:48:27>> THANK YOU. COUNCILOR

2:48:29COLLEAGUES QUESTIONS. ACTUALLY,

2:48:30BEFORE WE MOVE TO QUESTIONS, I

2:48:32BELIEVE WE DO HAVE SOMEBODY

2:48:33SIGNED UP TO TESTIFY.

2:48:34>> WE HAVE ONE PERSON SIGNED UP

2:48:36TO TESTIFY. SHE SPOKE.

2:48:37>> OKAY, WHY DON'T WE TAKE OUR

2:48:39PUBLIC TESTIMONY FIRST AND THEN

2:48:40WE WILL MOVE TO QUESTIONS.

2:48:43WELCOME. HOW ARE YOU?

2:48:49>> HELLO, COUNCILORS. I'M DOING

2:48:51PRETTY WELL. THANK YOU. I'M

2:48:52SHERRY SPOCK. I USE SHE HER

2:48:53PRONOUNS. I'M THE CLIMATE

2:48:55POLICY DIRECTOR FOR 350 PDX.

2:48:58AND SO WE BRING OUR SUPPORT FOR

2:49:00THIS. AND THANK YOU TO

2:49:02COUNCILOR NOVICK FOR BRINGING

2:49:03UP THIS RESOLUTION. WE

2:49:05SUBMITTED TESTIMONY ON BEHALF

2:49:07OF OURSELVES, AS WELL AS AN

2:49:09ORGANIZATIONAL SIGN ON LETTER

2:49:10FROM SIX ORGANIZATIONS FROM

2:49:14PORTLAND AND AROUND THE STATE

2:49:14THAT YOU CAN LOOK AT, AND A

2:49:17COUPLE MORE HAVE JOINED SINCE I

2:49:19SENT THAT IN. SO IT WILL ALSO

2:49:21GROW AS WE GET TO THE HOPEFULLY

2:49:23THE FULL COUNCIL. AND SO THIS

2:49:26IS AN ISSUE THAT WE'VE BEEN

2:49:27WORKING ON KIND OF AT THE STATE

2:49:29LEVEL AND HAS BEEN SOMETHING

2:49:31THAT'S REALLY POPULAR WITH

2:49:33FOLKS THAT CARE ABOUT CLIMATE

2:49:35ISSUES. AND SO WE HOPE THAT

2:49:37YOU'LL SUPPORT THIS RESOLUTION.

2:49:38COUNCILOR NOVICK MENTIONED THE

2:49:40FEDERAL BILLS THAT ARE GOING ON.

2:49:42THERE ARE ALSO SOME AT

2:49:43DIFFERENT STATE LEVELS. AND SO

2:49:45WE'RE CONCERNED ABOUT THOSE.

2:49:46AND WE'RE ALSO WANTING TO PASS

2:49:50SOMETHING AT THE STATE LEVEL

2:49:52THAT WOULD HELP US RECOVER

2:49:54FUNDS THAT FOSSIL FUEL

2:49:56COMPANIES HAVE GAINED IN

2:49:58PROFITS WHILE CAUSING CLIMATE

2:50:00HARM IN THE LAST SEVERAL

2:50:01DECADES IN OREGON. AND SO WE'RE

2:50:03PART OF A MAKE POLLUTERS PAY

2:50:05COALITION WITH OVER 50 GROUPS

2:50:08FROM AROUND THE STATE THAT'S

2:50:09WORKING ON A CLIMATE SUPERFUND

2:50:11BILL AT THE STATE LEVEL THAT

2:50:13WOULD HELP TO RECOVER SOME OF

2:50:15THOSE COSTS FROM DAMAGES TO

2:50:18PAST CLIMATE HARMS. AND SO THIS

2:50:21WOULD HELP KIND OF INDICATE

2:50:23PORTLAND'S SUPPORT FOR THOSE

2:50:25TYPES OF ACTIONS THAT WE REALLY

2:50:27DO NEED TO BE ABLE TO HAVE THE

2:50:29OPTION TO USE LITIGATION AND

2:50:31LEGISLATION TO MAKE SURE THAT

2:50:33WE CAN PAY FOR THOSE CLIMATE

2:50:35DAMAGES, THAT AT THIS POINT,

2:50:36TAXPAYERS ARE HAVING TO PAY FOR

2:50:38BECAUSE WE'RE ALREADY

2:50:39EXPERIENCING THOSE CLIMATE

2:50:40EMERGENCIES. SO I THINK THAT IS

2:50:45BASICALLY ALL I HAVE TO SAY.

2:50:46THERE HAVE BEEN BILLS PASSED IN

2:50:48NEW YORK AND VERMONT TO MAKE

2:50:50POLLUTERS PAY THE CLIMATE.

2:50:52SUPERFUND IS BASED ON KIND OF

2:50:53THE SUPERFUND MODEL OF, YOU

2:50:56KNOW, MAKING THE COMPANIES THAT

2:50:57CAUSE THE SOIL AND WATER

2:50:59POLLUTION PAY THOSE DAMAGES. SO

2:51:00THIS WOULD EXTEND THE CONCEPT

2:51:02TO AIR POLLUTION. SO I

2:51:04ENCOURAGE YOU TO VOTE YES FOR

2:51:05THIS RESOLUTION. AND THEN ALSO,

2:51:07IF YOU'RE INTERESTED IN SIGNING

2:51:08ON TO A NATIONAL SIGN ON LETTER,

2:51:10THANK YOU. COUNCILOR NOVICK AND

2:51:12COUNCILOR MORILLO FOR ALREADY

2:51:13SIGNING THAT NATIONAL LETTER.

2:51:15LET ME KNOW AND I'LL SEND YOU

2:51:17THE INFORMATION. AND I HOPE

2:51:19THAT ALSO, AS YOU'RE LOOKING AT

2:51:21PORTLAND'S LEGISLATIVE SLATE,

2:51:22THAT YOU WILL SUPPORT THE

2:51:24CLIMATE SUPERFUND BILL AT THE

2:51:25STATE LEVEL AND INDICATE THAT

2:51:27PORTLAND WOULD LIKE SOMETHING

2:51:28LIKE THAT TO PASS SO THAT THE

2:51:30STATE GETS MONEY TO DEAL WITH

2:51:31CLIMATE EMERGENCIES THAT WOULD

2:51:33PASS ON DOWN TO CITIES AND

2:51:34COUNTIES. THANK YOU.

2:51:36>> THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR BEING

2:51:37HERE WITH US TODAY AND FOR

2:51:40SUBMITTING THAT WRITTEN

2:51:41TESTIMONY.

2:51:44>> THAT CONCLUDES TESTIMONY.

2:51:46>> GREAT COLLEAGUES, THAT MOVES

2:51:48US INTO DISCUSSION AND DEBATE.

2:51:52DOES ANYBODY HAVE ANY QUESTIONS

2:51:53FOR COUNCILOR NOVICK OR

2:51:55COMMENTS? COUNCILOR AVALOS GO

2:51:56RIGHT AHEAD.

2:51:58>> YEAH, THANK YOU. COUNCILOR.

2:52:00NOVICK FOR BRINGING THIS UP. I

2:52:03WONDER IF YOU COULD HELP ME

2:52:04PARSE SOMETHING OUT BASED ON

2:52:06YOUR LOGIC FOR THIS RESOLUTION,

2:52:09BECAUSE I KNOW WE JUST HAD A

2:52:11CONVERSATION ABOUT CITIZEN

2:52:12SUITS AROUND ZENITH. I KNOW

2:52:14THAT'S AN ONGOING ISSUE, BUT I

2:52:16JUST AM SEEING A SIMILARITY.

2:52:17I'M TRYING TO UNDERSTAND YOUR

2:52:19THINKING OF HOW THIS IS

2:52:20DIFFERENT FROM THAT, BECAUSE

2:52:22THE GREEN MORILLO AMENDMENT

2:52:23THAT WE DISCUSSED AND THIS

2:52:25RESOLUTION OBVIOUSLY INVOLVED

2:52:27VERY DIFFERENT LEGAL MECHANISMS,

2:52:28BUT THEY BOTH RAISED THIS

2:52:29BROADER QUESTION ABOUT ACCESS

2:52:31TO COURTS AS A TOOL FOR

2:52:33ACCOUNTABILITY. I KNOW YOU HAD

2:52:34SOME CONCERNS ABOUT THE CITIZEN

2:52:36ENFORCEMENT MECHANISM IN THAT

2:52:38AMENDMENT, BUT THIS RESOLUTION

2:52:39STRONGLY AFFIRMS PRESERVING

2:52:41ACCESS TO COURTS IN THE CLIMATE

2:52:43ACCOUNTABILITY CONTEXT. SO

2:52:44COULD YOU JUST SHARE HOW YOU

2:52:46DISTINGUISH THOSE TWO IN YOUR

2:52:47MIND?

2:52:50>> THANK YOU, COUNCILOR AVALOS.

2:52:53SO THIS RESOLUTION IS ABOUT

2:52:55MAINTAINING THE RIGHTS OF LOCAL

2:52:57AND STATE GOVERNMENTS TO SUE

2:52:59THE FOSSIL FUEL INDUSTRY FOR

2:53:01DAMAGES CAUSED BY CLIMATE

2:53:02CHANGE. THE AMENDMENT BROUGHT

2:53:07BY COUNCILOR GREEN MORILLO,

2:53:09WOULD ALLOW FOR THE GENERAL

2:53:12PUBLIC TO SUE TO ENFORCE A

2:53:14SPECIFIC CONTRACT BETWEEN THE

2:53:16CITY AND ANOTHER PARTY, WHICH

2:53:19TO ME IS A VERY DIFFERENT THING.

2:53:22ALSO, I THINK THAT THE EFFECT

2:53:23OF PASSING THAT AMENDMENT WOULD

2:53:25BE TO, IN FACT, IN EFFECT,

2:53:27INVITE THE FUEL COMPANY TO SUE

2:53:29THE CITY. SO I HAVE A I HAVE

2:53:32CONCERNS ABOUT THAT. BUT ALSO

2:53:35THERE IS A LONG TRADITION OF

2:53:37STATES AND CITIES AND COUNTIES

2:53:38BEING ABLE TO GO TO STATE COURT

2:53:40TO SEEK REDRESS OF GRIEVANCES.

2:53:42THERE IS NOT A LONG TRADITION

2:53:46OF USING CITIZEN SUITS TO

2:53:48ENFORCE CONTRACTS BETWEEN

2:53:50CITIES AND OTHER ENTITIES.

2:53:52NORMALLY, THE PEOPLE WHO SUE TO

2:53:54ENFORCE A CONTRACT ARE THE

2:53:55PARTIES TO A CONTRACT. THERE'S

2:53:57LIMITED CIRCUMSTANCES IN WHICH

2:53:58OUTSIDE PARTIES ARE REFERRED TO

2:54:00AS THIRD COUNTY BENEFIT

2:54:03BENEFICIARIES, BUT THEY'RE

2:54:04QUITE LIMITED WHERE THERE'S

2:54:05THERE'S NOT A HISTORY OF THE

2:54:08GENERAL PUBLIC BEING ABLE TO

2:54:11SUE TO ENFORCE CONTRACTS

2:54:13BETWEEN CITIES AND OTHER

2:54:14ENTITIES.

2:54:16>> THANK YOU. SO THE

2:54:17DISTINCTION YOU'RE MAKING IS

2:54:18THAT GOVERNMENT AND GOVERNMENT

2:54:19ENTITIES SHOULD BE ABLE TO SUE,

2:54:20BUT INDIVIDUAL CITIZENS SHOULD

2:54:22NOT BE ABLE TO SUE. IS THAT THE

2:54:24DIFFERENCE?

2:54:25>> NO, NO, COUNCILOR THAT IS

2:54:26NOT THE DISTINCTION.

2:54:27>> OKAY. TELL ME ONE MORE TIME

2:54:28THEN. WHAT DID I MISS?

2:54:29>> MY DISTINCTION IS BETWEEN

2:54:31BRINGING A LAWSUIT AGAINST

2:54:33COMPANIES FOR CLIMATE DAMAGES

2:54:35IS DIFFERENT THAN BRINGING A

2:54:36LAWSUIT TO ENFORCE A CONTRACT

2:54:39BETWEEN TWO AND TO SEPARATE TWO

2:54:42ENTITIES.

2:54:43>> OKAY. GOT IT. OKAY. THANKS

2:54:45FOR EXPLAINING. THAT'S ALL.

2:54:46>> THANK YOU.

2:54:49>> THANK YOU, COUNCILOR AVALOS.

2:54:52I'LL JUMP IN. COUNCILOR NOVICK,

2:54:54THANK YOU FOR BRINGING THIS

2:54:56FORWARD. WHEN I FIRST SAW IT, I

2:55:00WAS A BIT CONCERNED ABOUT THIS

2:55:03TAKING US DOWN AN UNSUSTAINABLE

2:55:05PATH OF PASSING RESOLUTIONS

2:55:07ABOUT WHAT IS HAPPENING AT THE

2:55:08FEDERAL LEVEL. AND I REALLY

2:55:09APPRECIATE YOUR EXPLANATION

2:55:10ABOUT THE DIFFERENCE HERE. WE

2:55:14SPENT OUR ENTIRE COMMITTEE LAST,

2:55:16I GUESS THAT'S TWO WEEKS AGO,

2:55:18TALKING ABOUT CLIMATE CHANGE

2:55:20AND THE FACT THAT WE NEED TO BE

2:55:22DOING MORE AS A CITY TO MEET

2:55:24OUR OWN CLIMATE GOALS. SO THE

2:55:26TIMING HERE IS INCREDIBLY IT'S

2:55:30INCREDIBLY WELL TIMED. CLIMATE

2:55:33CHANGE IS IMPOSING GROWING

2:55:36COSTS ON OUR CITY. WHETHER

2:55:38THOSE ARE COSTS RELATED TO

2:55:41DISTRIBUTING AIR CONDITIONERS,

2:55:43COSTS RELATED TO COOLING

2:55:45SHELTERS, COSTS RELATED TO

2:55:49CREATING SAFE SPACES. WHEN WE

2:55:50HAVE SMOKE EVENTS IN THE CITY

2:55:52FROM NEARBY WILDFIRES, AND THE

2:55:55HEALTH COSTS OF PORTLANDERS

2:55:57THAT ARE ASSOCIATED WITH ALL OF

2:55:58THOSE THINGS, WE KNOW THAT OUR

2:55:59COSTS ARE GOING UP BECAUSE OF

2:56:01THE ACTIONS OF THESE FOSSIL

2:56:03FUEL COMPANIES. SO I SEE A

2:56:05NEXUS HERE THAT IS AN IMPORTANT

2:56:09ONE. AND THE FACT THAT THIS IS

2:56:11ABOUT PRESERVING OUR RIGHTS AS

2:56:14A CITY IS AN IMPORTANT NEXUS AS

2:56:16WELL. THAT HELPS ME SEE THIS AS

2:56:17DIFFERENT FROM OPENING UP THAT

2:56:20BROADER PATH. AS YOU SUGGESTED.

2:56:24I ACTUALLY THINK THIS IS A

2:56:24REALLY IMPORTANT RESOLUTION FOR

2:56:26US TO PASS, NOT JUST ONE THAT

2:56:28WE THAT WE COULD, BUT ONE THAT

2:56:32WE MUST, BECAUSE WE NEED TO

2:56:33SEND THE SIGNAL THAT COUNCIL

2:56:36WANTS US TO ENGAGE IN MORE

2:56:37LAWSUITS. THE MAYOR HAS THE

2:56:40ABILITY, AND I SHOULD SAY, MORE

2:56:42LAWSUITS AROUND CLIMATE CHANGE.

2:56:44THE MAYOR HAS THE ABILITY TO

2:56:45SIGN ON TO LAWSUITS ON BEHALF

2:56:47OF THE CITY. BUT IF THE MAYOR

2:56:49CHOOSES NOT TO. COUNCIL COULD

2:56:50ALSO TAKE ACTION THERE. AND I

2:56:52THINK THAT THIS RESOLUTION IS

2:56:54AN IMPORTANT SIGNAL FOR US TO

2:56:55SEND TO THE MAYOR THAT WE'D

2:56:58LIKE TO SEE HIM BE MORE

2:56:59PROACTIVE IN THIS AREA, AND

2:57:01IT'S AN IMPORTANT STEP FOR US

2:57:03TO TAKE TO THEN BE ABLE TO

2:57:05POINT TO, IF WE CHOOSE AS A

2:57:07BODY, TO DIRECT THE

2:57:11ADMINISTRATION TO ENTER INTO

2:57:12SOME OF THESE LAWSUITS IN THE

2:57:14FUTURE. SO I THINK THERE'S A

2:57:15LOT WE CAN BUILD ON FROM THIS

2:57:17RESOLUTION. SHOULD WE MOVE IT

2:57:18FORWARD? WE KNOW THAT OUR

2:57:21COMMUNITY IS DIRECTLY IMPACTED

2:57:22BY CLIMATE CHANGE AND THAT WHEN

2:57:24COMMUNITIES ARE HARMED BY

2:57:25CLIMATE CHANGE, WE MUST HAVE

2:57:27THOSE LEGAL AVENUES BEFORE US

2:57:29TO BE ABLE TO TAKE ACTIONS. SO

2:57:31THANK YOU FOR BRINGING THIS

2:57:32FORWARD. THANK YOU FOR FOR THE

2:57:35WORK THAT YOU'VE DONE IN THIS

2:57:37AREA, AND I WILL LOOK FORWARD

2:57:38TO SUPPORTING TODAY.

2:57:39>> OKAY.

2:57:42>> COUNCILOR RYAN, GO RIGHT

2:57:43AHEAD.

2:57:43>> SURE. REAL QUICK, I JUST

2:57:45WANT TO SAY THANK YOU.

2:57:46COUNCILOR. NOVICK. THIS IS

2:57:47IMPORTANT. IT'S TIMELY AND IT'S

2:57:49IT GETS TO THE ACCOUNTABILITY

2:57:50THAT I KEEP HEARING PORTLANDERS

2:57:52WANT THAT IS CRYSTAL CLEAR TO

2:57:54THEM. SO I REALLY APPRECIATE

2:57:55THAT THIS WILL HOPEFULLY PASS

2:57:57TODAY. I THINK THERE'S A LOT OF

2:58:00AGREEMENT UP HERE AND I

2:58:02APPRECIATE THAT. COUNCILOR

2:58:03NOVICK GOT ON GOT GOT THIS TO

2:58:06US TODAY. THANK YOU COLLEAGUES.

2:58:09>> SEEING NO ONE ELSE IN THE

2:58:11QUEUE, THIS IS A RESOLUTION. SO

2:58:17DO WE HAVE A MOTION TO MOVE IT?

2:58:19>> YEAH. OH NOVICK CAN'T DO IT.

2:58:22>> YEAH.

2:58:22>> NOVICK CAN'T.

2:58:23>> DO IT.

2:58:24>> I MOVE ITEM SORRY, I WASN'T

2:58:25PREPARED FOR THIS. I MOVED TO I

2:58:30MOVE THE MOTION TO SUPPORT THIS

2:58:32RESOLUTION, TO SUPPORT THE

2:58:33PRESERVATION OF COURT ACCESS TO

2:58:34PROTECT TAXPAYERS IN EXTREME

2:58:36WEATHER COST. AND SO DO I. HAVE

2:58:40A SECOND?

2:58:41>> I'LL SECOND. AND COULD WE

2:58:44CALL THE ROLL.

2:58:47>> MORILLO MOTION?

2:58:49>> HI.

2:58:50>> ZIMMERMAN. ABSENT AVALOS.

2:58:54>> HI, RYAN.

2:58:56>> I PIRTLE-GUINEY. I THE

2:58:59MOTION TO REFER IS APPROVED

2:59:02WITH FOUR VOTES AND ONE ABSENT.

2:59:04>> THANK YOU AND THANK YOU,

2:59:05COUNCILOR NOVICK FOR BRINGING

2:59:07THIS TO OUR COMMITTEE TODAY.

2:59:09>> THANK YOU.

2:59:12>> COLLEAGUES. WE ARE THROUGH

2:59:14OUR AGENDA. IN TWO WEEKS WE

2:59:18WILL HAVE A PRESENTATION ON

2:59:20ADVANCED PORTLAND, WHICH IS OUR

2:59:21CITY'S ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT

2:59:23POLICY, AND A FIRST OPPORTUNITY

2:59:26TO TALK ABOUT WHAT OUR STRATEGY

2:59:28AROUND ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT IS

2:59:30AT THE CITY. THIS IS A TOPIC WE

2:59:32WILL COME BACK TO IN THE FUTURE.

2:59:34WE WILL THEN HAVE A DISCUSSION

2:59:36AROUND THE CITY'S POLICY FOR

2:59:39PRIVATIZING PUBLICLY OWNED LAND.

2:59:41WE DO HAVE A POLICY AT THE CITY

2:59:42FOR HOW BUREAUS NEED TO MOVE

2:59:44FORWARD, IF THEY WOULD LIKE TO

2:59:45SELL LAND THAT IS CURRENTLY

2:59:47PUBLICLY OWNED. AND OUR COUNCIL

2:59:50HAS AT VARIOUS TIMES SUGGESTED

2:59:53THAT WE MAY WANT TO REVISIT

2:59:56THAT POLICY. SO WE'LL HAVE AN

2:59:58OPPORTUNITY TO LEARN MORE ABOUT

2:59:59WHAT IS CURRENTLY ON THE BOOKS,

3:00:01BEGIN A DISCUSSION ABOUT WHAT

3:00:03WE MIGHT WANT TO DO THERE

3:00:05MOVING FORWARD, AND THEN HEAR A

3:00:07SPECIFIC REQUEST TO TRANSFER

3:00:11PROPERTY CURRENTLY OWNED BY THE

3:00:12CITY TO A PRIVATE ENTITY. WE

3:00:15WILL BE BACK IN TWO WEEKS FOR

3:00:16THOSE CONVERSATIONS. THANK YOU

3:00:18ALL FOR THE DEBATE TODAY. AND

3:00:19WITH THAT, I WILL CLOSE OUR

3:00:22COMMITTEE MEETIN