2026-09-09 - Public Services Committee

00:00the cemetery and the people are there.

00:04Lord, it's not for me, I pray, for

00:06what's best for the city and the

00:08cemetery. Lord, I ask for your guidance

00:11to be here with these people today that

00:14I'm not here for no other reason, for

00:16better of the cemetery. And that Jesus

00:18name I pray. Amen.

00:23What I come for

00:27is the creek down there

00:31overflow.

00:34>> I thought the thing I know lick it or

00:37what?

00:40I I come AC the creek is overflowed

00:43on many many occasion

00:48and I'm going to tell you this right off

00:49the bat. Black people more or less

00:52raised me. My dad was a doctor, my

00:55granddad was a doctor, and it was always

00:56black people in in the house and they

00:59raised me.

01:03And that's the reason I love that

01:05section C. It don't stand for colored

01:07either.

01:09These people that raised me and took

01:11care of me and wipe my hand in and

01:14taught me about Jesus.

01:19caution to love those people.

01:23I was fortunate to be raised by black

01:26people

01:27because daddy was a doctor, daddy,

01:30granddaddy was doctor's always servants

01:32there

01:34and here one of them died

01:36and buried down there next to the creek

01:39and you go down there and they they

01:42washed away.

01:44My purpose to being here is

01:47[clears throat]

01:48that creek is not big enough.

01:53They built three new houses

01:57on the creek. They have already flooded.

02:04There's a 36 inch pipe

02:08carrying

02:11thousands of square feet.

02:15And it's been like that for years and

02:16years. And nobody apparently has stood

02:19up

02:21and say, "Look, we got to do something.

02:26I'm not asking you. I'm begging you."

02:30I talked to Morgan back there. He know

02:32pipe. I was thinking about pipe.

02:36I look I went to hydro conduit and price

02:38pipe. It's astronomical.

02:42So, I would say

02:45there's a 36 inch pipe in there now and

02:48it crosses off the city property,

02:51but the pipe goes across those folks

02:55and it's underground.

02:57Morgan suggest

03:01daylight it.

03:04In other words,

03:06the pipe is there. either take it out or

03:09go beside of it and cut a ditch down

03:10through there. I know it them people

03:12ain't gonna like it, but I don't like

03:14people flooding

03:17going down the creek.

03:20And nobody took a stand as I know of.

03:22I've been I worked in that thing in that

03:24cemetery

03:28for 20ome years for nothing.

03:33I don't give myself any credit. I don't

03:35take any credit. We've had some fine

03:37city managers that stuck with me and it

03:39still is

03:42and their hands are tied.

03:45But what I what I would ask

03:48to go there and tell them land owners to

03:51take that pipe because if it runs

03:57$217.50

03:59for 48 inch pipe per foot.

04:03Well, I it take a it take too much money

04:06to pipe it. I mean, I wouldn't

04:09I I don't even believe we're gonna get a

04:11grant or nothing like that.

04:14Take that pipe out and go down through

04:16there and if they want their own

04:17property pipe, they could pay for it,

04:21you know.

04:22But it's flooding.

04:26There was a gentleman worked for the

04:28city. I know his name. I ain't going to

04:30tell it.

04:32He would go down to that pipe after

04:34rains and take the bones and the skulls

04:38out of that pipe because it was stopped

04:40up. It was just a 36-inch pipe as a

04:4236-inch pipe there and nobody has done

04:44anything in all these years. I lay my

04:47life on the line for that place. I

04:49worked long hours

04:53and I know once some people say when

04:56they're there the the dead goodbye and

04:59they never come back. all come in for

05:01funerals and never come back. They don't

05:04turn one hand to help anything in that

05:06cemetery.

05:08And I'm a little bit fanatic about the

05:10cemetery. I don't expect for y'all to

05:11love it like I love it.

05:15But my mama, my daddy, my grandson,

05:19my grandparents and all are right there

05:23on dry land.

05:25And I don't want to be racial or nothing

05:27about that, but they call that the black

05:29side over there. And they went down in

05:31there and they washed down the creek. It

05:35ain't right. We got to catch up times

05:38and make it right. And the only way to

05:41do it is go down there. You could put a

05:44big pipe, but when I come up, there's a

05:47lot of millionaires around and just

05:48happy.

05:50But I guess they're all gone.

05:53But we can cut. We could cut I think

05:56legally daylight it and if the people

06:00wanted a pipe they'd have to put like a

06:01five inch pipe five excuse me five feet

06:06in diameter

06:09to let that water out there.

06:15Maybe I'm a little fanatical about it

06:17but I love that cemetery. I love the

06:19people there. I love all of them from

06:21one end to the other.

06:24And if we could go in there

06:28and cut a daylight that pipe all the way

06:30down through there, it might it may take

06:3310 years to get it done. I don't know.

06:37But I would like something to happen. I

06:40mean, I know y'all's hands are tied. I

06:42know that. I know there's no good

06:45answer.

06:47But once if we can get the wheels

06:49turning a little bit along,

06:53you know

06:56and and

06:59when I come up there's millionaires all

07:01around me.

07:03went to Memorial Methodist Church set

07:05sat right beside of them as a boy

07:08and a lot of things that they people had

07:11you know business was good furniture

07:13factories were splurging and there was

07:16money but I don't know where the money

07:18is now

07:20but if we could if we could we got to do

07:22something

07:24this man went down there and picked the

07:26bones and the skulls out of that 36 inch

07:28pipe so the water could go through

07:31there.

07:33He told me himself and I won't mention

07:36his name, but it ain't right for this to

07:40occur over and over and over.

07:43>> Mike, what are our options here?

07:45>> What can we do?

07:49>> So, the the creek itself is not a

07:53designated flood plane.

07:56The creek itself is not a designated

07:58flood plane. Does not fall within the

08:00100year flood plane.

08:02So the so the flooding is yes flooding

08:07occurs but it's not under jurisdictional

08:11rules as far as daylighting this the map

08:16that I that I'm showing on the on the on

08:19your monitor.

08:21There's two easements that run across

08:23this property. One of them is a sanitary

08:25sewer ement and then the one that's to

08:27the left is the storm water

08:31and that's where the pipe is generally

08:33under. If you were

08:37while daylighting a creek is the

08:40preferred way of handling

08:43streams nowadays.

08:45you would be taking private land and

08:49having to pay for that private land

08:52to open that up. You're talking about

08:54potentially impacting the building.

08:57Definitely their parking lot and then

09:00you still got two residential lots to

09:02the north that you would also have to

09:05address because just daylighting it to

09:07the edge of the property doesn't you

09:09know still causes a flood potential

09:12issue. So

09:15you you have authorities, but you

09:18basically be creating a taking. So you'd

09:20have to purchase that that property.

09:23>> Is the EPA the one that designate who

09:26can do what?

09:26>> It's not it's not EPA. It's FEMA.

09:31Doesn't EPA control all waterways?

09:33>> EPA. No,

09:35>> they thought it was EPA.

09:36>> No, the environmental protection.

09:39>> No, it's the core of engineers

09:41>> that that Naviga

09:48publishes the flood plane maps. It's not

09:52>> Yeah, it's department of water quality

09:54in North Carolina.

09:56>> So, it's North Carolina

10:01all

10:09>> right. That's the core of engineers.

10:12Yeah, core of engineers is the ones that

10:15oversee navigable water. And what what

10:18happened during the Obama years is a lot

10:22of land that is

10:24that or a lot of waterways that were

10:27small were they were I can't remember

10:31the final outcome of it. I know it was a

10:32big issue

10:34>> um where wetlands and things of that

10:36nature were getting classified as as

10:39control or at least under designation

10:42control. In this particular case, this

10:45creek does not have any u it's not

10:48within flood plane jurisdictional

10:49boundaries. So

10:51>> we don't and we don't own the property

10:52except for that little piece that's now

10:54part of the the current street property

10:57and then of course what runs across the

10:58cemetery property.

11:01all the rest of it.

11:02>> Is there anything we can do on the part

11:04that we do?

11:06>> I mean, I guess you

11:10I mean, you could daylight another 10 ft

11:14of it, but that's not going to change.

11:19>> Well, not without agreements. And in

11:22this particular case, you're tearing up.

11:25And this is a daycare, so you know, the

11:29the kids are playing on top of

11:31right now on top of that storm water if

11:34you daylight it they're going to be in

11:37the water um and you're going right

11:39through a parking lot you're getting

11:41close to building foundations exactly

11:44how you would want there

11:46so I just don't again if you want to

11:49spend a lot of money to to

11:52purchase the property

11:55>> but you know that's

11:59there's not much

12:09So where where we stand now, Mike?

12:13>> I mean, I just wanted to be heard. Well,

12:16council is

12:18it's their decision as to whether they

12:21want to pay the money that it would cost

12:23to daylight that creek, which would be

12:26buying that property because that

12:29property is being used as a daycare

12:31right now.

12:34Even if they were okay with the idea of

12:36opening that up, it's they'd have to be

12:40paid,

12:42>> you know, because you're taking their

12:43property. [snorts]

12:45And then you're also dealing with the

12:47cost of all the daylighting.

12:50So, I mean, it's up to council, but

12:53council would have to direct staff to to

12:56investigate buying that property.

13:04>> Yeah. You're going right through their

13:06playground. You're going right through

13:07their parking lot.

13:08How would they get to their building

13:12if we daylighted that?

13:14>> Put about a 5 in pipe with them bridge

13:17over it.

13:19>> Then you have flooding right at the

13:20point.

13:21>> 5 in pipe to probably take care of

13:24>> 5 in pipe.

13:25>> I think five. See it when it does it

13:28builds up. But if you got it, it never

13:31gets a chance to build up is what it

13:34does. It comes down through there.

13:38if it's get on out,

13:41>> but it's a daycare and if your concern

13:43is kids getting down in a creek and

13:47getting potentially flooded, you're

13:50you're opening up a a creek in a

13:53daycare.

13:55>> They couldn't they couldn't use it as

13:57the daycare anymore or they'd have to

13:59put up a fence.

14:00>> Yep.

14:06do whatever they got to do. I mean, you

14:08know,

14:17>> they won't

14:17>> they won't.

14:18>> I mean, we're it's our water. We're the

14:21watershed. You know, we we would have to

14:25utilize our funds from our storm water

14:30uh accounts like We have in other

14:33places, Albertson Road is a case that's

14:36using storm water funds to go in there

14:39and

14:41get easements andor property purchase.

14:46Then we pay for removing that pipe and

14:49doing all the restoration work necessary

14:51to open that up as a creek. And you're

14:54talking about two other houses

14:57at the north end of that, too, because

14:59those that creek runs under all the way

15:01to

15:02And then after Leonard, I think it's

15:04still in a pipe till it opens up into an

15:07open channel.

15:09>> That's correct, Michael. And the main

15:11difference between Road and

15:15this project, excuse me, the main

15:17difference between Auburn Road and this

15:18project is Auburn Road is on right away,

15:23public right away.

15:25>> Yeah.

15:27>> Yeah.

15:28>> Yeah. That's what I would caution you

15:30on. The opposition road is a public

15:32rightway.

15:33>> Darl, is there anything that we can do

15:34or you might notice on our side that we

15:36own that would help mitigate the

15:38flooding?

15:41>> The No, the the creek running from

15:43[clears throat] that Mr. Walker speaking

15:45about along the backside cemetery is

15:46already daylighted. Uh there has been a

15:49head wall put in there. There has been

15:51some 60inch pipe put in there.

15:53>> Oh yeah, about walking

15:55>> in a couple different areas. Uh but as

15:57far as the creek all the way from East

15:58Guilford Street to the point he's

15:59talking about is already daylighted

16:01open.

16:02>> It backs up in them houses.

16:04>> Thank you.

16:05>> Now, but it don't get in the house. It

16:07just gets up to them.

16:13>> I know this ain't going to happen

16:14overnight,

16:16but if we can start something,

16:20even if it's a piggy bank, start

16:22something. So, so I showed you on that

16:25pipe for reason.

16:30>> Reason I showed you this pipe.

16:34If a this water

16:38it gets up above this pipe all the way

16:40into this fence

16:43and if a child's down there,

16:46money can't pay for it. It would drown.

16:50And if they even find a child,

16:54I want some kind of Mike talk about

16:58stop. It will stop up. What you know, we

17:00can't put nothing that will stop up and

17:02I understand that.

17:04But something could be there some may

17:09where a child

17:11when this water gets plum up way up in

17:14here. If a child's down there, he's gone

17:17and it's over 200 feet

17:20before there's the catch bins because I

17:22went up and down the street with

17:23flashlight looking all in them.

17:25>> I want to make sure I understand. We

17:26would have that's on the private side.

17:29We would essentially have to buy that

17:32land or have something

17:36>> we can't take we can't take their land

17:39without compensation. So even if they

17:43agreed to daylight. You're basically

17:46closing

17:53the property owners that are that are

17:56houses,

17:59they could put fences up. I mean, we

18:01have a fence around the cemetery. So,

18:04they can put fences up on their property

18:06and keep children out of it. Um, you

18:10know, but it's it's like storm drain

18:14anywhere else in the city. There's

18:16there's not we don't put grates on top

18:19of storm drains because then you're just

18:22creating more chance of flooding when it

18:25gets stopped up.

18:26>> So, I mean,

18:29there's no there's no solution that I

18:32know of that doesn't cost a whole lot of

18:33money and requirements to address that

18:37property.

18:43Yeah.

18:43>> Thank you, sir.

18:46>> Well, y'all heard it now.

18:49And if it been easy, Mike would have

18:51done fixed it.

18:53[laughter]

18:55>> That's true.

18:56>> Well, I appreciate your time, but I love

18:58that cemetery and the people's buried

18:59there.

19:01And

19:03I figure if I start now, I may be old

19:06when it's solution take place. I don't

19:09know.

19:10>> But we got to start somewhere.

19:14Thank you for your time, sir.

19:16>> Ma'am,

19:16>> thank you for your time.

19:18>> Thank you.

19:19>> Thank you.

19:20>> Oh, thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

19:22[snorts]

19:24>> Presentation of results

19:27AIA grant project.

19:34>> Thank you.

19:35>> Thank you.

19:47Hello. Thank you. Good. Good. Okay. I am

19:50not technically doing the presentation

19:53of the results. That is going to be done

19:55at briefing by representative from uh

19:58Withers Rabinel, the company that

20:00performed the sewer AIA. Um, but what

20:03I'm bringing to you is the resolution

20:05and well, it's both in support of the

20:08the results of the sewer IIA. They what

20:11they did was revise the city's CIP and

20:14included it. They created five

20:16additional projects determined from from

20:18the information they gathered and and

20:20the examinations they did of this order

20:22system. and they als they are including

20:26the updated CIP in u an asset management

20:30plan that they've created. Um and I

20:34apologize I had not gotten a copy of

20:36that to you all. I'll try to get a soft

20:39copy out into the uh briefing folder

20:44because it is a large document.

20:47But that way you all have a chance to

20:49look at it before the presentation. But

20:51but the resolution essentially is that

20:55that the city accepts the results,

20:56supports the results of the the

20:58engineers findings and uh that the money

21:02the $400,000 that grant that performed

21:05this work was done uh was spent

21:08correctly.

21:10>> Yep.

21:13>> Um

21:15yes, I guess that would be good.

21:19Yeah. Go ahead and move to briefing with

21:21presentation and action.

21:23>> I'll go ahead and make a motion that

21:25presentation and action.

21:31>> Okay. Thank you.

21:36>> Next order discuss.

21:44[snorts]

21:46Uh, so I'm not sure how many people have

21:48been contacted by the North Carolina

21:50Rural Water Association. Um, I know that

21:53the mayor has. I'm not sure who else may

21:55have received emails and letters. Um and

22:00uh but what

22:02is

22:04North Carolina Rural Water Association

22:06uh has teamed up with a company called

22:10uh Serline uh or Home Serve, I'm sorry,

22:13that offers different programs that are

22:17essentially insurance programs.

22:19>> It says Ser

22:21Yeah. The the name of the company is

22:23Home Serve. The name of the product is

22:25Surf.

22:26>> Um So uh the what they offer are two

22:31different programs

22:33to to be made available. The first

22:36program is an insurance program for the

22:39individual homeowner

22:42and they can establish

22:45a agreement for that insurance

22:48and there are three different levels of

22:50it depending on what someone wants to

22:52purchase.

22:54The first one is lines that are from the

22:58meter to the structure. So, what's in

23:02your front yard most likely? Um, and

23:06they offer an insurance program that

23:08would cover that up to $12,000 if it

23:12were to break. Um, that is something

23:16that's not necessarily covered by home

23:18insurance.

23:20This would be an additional service on

23:22top of your home homeowners insurance.

23:25Um,

23:26is

23:28uh where a place where water lines break

23:31a lot obviously is that that private

23:34side the same then they have a second

23:37program that is the sewer side that when

23:40it leaves your home till it gets to the

23:42the public sewer line which is also a

23:46$12,000 coverage uh that would be

23:49available to the individual homeowner.

23:52And then they also have a third one

23:54which is for the pipes inside the

23:56building uh inside the the home, which

24:00is a max of $3,000.

24:04We would not have anything really to do

24:06with that program other than the fact

24:09we'd be lending our name and lending

24:12them our customer base, although they

24:15can also get the customer base through

24:16other means. That would allow for an

24:20individual to choose to buy the

24:22insurance. This is an optional insurance

24:25uh but it would come to the customer

24:27[cough]

24:29with our endorsement essentially that

24:31that the city of Thomasville has gone

24:34into partnership with this organization.

24:36>> How's the staff feel about that?

24:38>> Um

24:40the the

24:44I am not generally in favor of of things

24:48where we have to do This is a case where

24:53we don't really have to do it. Meaning

24:55that we don't have our fingers are not

24:57on it other than just lending our name

24:59to it. Um the uh

25:03if they get the database of names from

25:05another source, what advantages is it

25:08for the city?

25:08>> It it's it's they want they want our

25:11endorsement. They want us they want to

25:13be able to use

25:14>> what do we get?

25:15>> What do Okay, so what do we get? I'm

25:17glad you asked that. what we potentially

25:19get if we there's two different

25:23contracts that we could sign with them.

25:26One of them is that we participate in

25:29revenue sharing.

25:31So the individual buys this insurance

25:36and we would get a small

25:39portion of that brought sent back to us

25:41as revenue. So if there were

25:46I think it's around 50 cents per unit.

25:49So per sale of this, we would receive

25:53that as revenue.

25:55So that's what we would get back. What

25:57jurisdictions that have this program

26:00have been doing is that revenue is is

26:04not earmarked. So you could either

26:06earmark it for certain things. Um some

26:09places set up water sewer uh charity

26:13accounts basically where um you know

26:17money to CCM or Fair Family Partnership

26:19or whatever to pay utility bills for

26:22individuals um is what a lot of

26:24organizations do. Uh or it can just be

26:27general revenue money or it could go to,

26:30you know, water sewer projects.

26:32>> Account we're not talking about money.

26:34>> Well, yeah. I mean, it all depends on

26:37how many would sign up for it. Um the

26:41So, that's where Now, if we chose not to

26:43do that and participate in that, then

26:46they would the price of the insurance to

26:48the to the end user. So the customer

26:51would get a discount rate from what

26:54they're showing.

26:55>> Do they differentiate between if they

26:58put our name on it?

27:01Well, if they go bankrupt, whatever city

27:04is going to cover this,

27:06they may the customer may consider that,

27:09but that's not

27:10>> that's my fear. They're going to think

27:11that we're back.

27:14>> Yeah, I I agree. I It's not it's not a

27:18you know there are

27:21the one of the concerns that staff has

27:23also is that people will think it's a

27:25scam

27:26>> you know I mean because this company can

27:29send you this stuff now you know

27:34>> yeah so so it's not it's not uncommon

27:38for this they just seem to have a a lock

27:42on home insurance these types of the gas

27:45company does basically

27:46>> right they do they do a similar thing

27:48I've gotten those in the mail um the uh

27:52so that that's the first program it's

27:54the individual customer benefiting to

27:58buy that insurance we're not involved if

28:00it breaks they call serve line they send

28:03a plumber out they fix it we don't have

28:05anything

28:06the other program is what they call

28:08their high water bill program um this is

28:11where we get in bed a little

28:14more. And what what happens is

28:19essentially we and again there's two

28:22options here. We can either make it so

28:24the customer purchases this insurance or

28:29the city could essentially buy the

28:31insurance for all of our customers

28:35and and pay the the monthly rate for all

28:38of our residential customers and build

28:41it into our rate structure. And the way

28:43this would work is if someone has a high

28:47water bill,

28:49we would choose a rate cover amount. So

28:52be $500, $1,000, $1,200 that we would

28:57say that we will pay up to that amount.

29:00We being the insurance company will pay

29:02up to that amount. Someone gets a high

29:04water bill,

29:06uh, for whatever reason, there's a leak.

29:10Once they show proof of repair of the

29:13leak to this company,

29:17then

29:19that company would contact us. We'd let

29:22the know what the average 12 month rate

29:25is for that user for water um or sewer.

29:29And then the customer would only have to

29:32pay the average. Everything between the

29:34average up to the bill and or the max

29:38$500 or $1,000 or $1,200. The company

29:42would pay that. That money comes to us.

29:46So, it's really an insurance company

29:48because we we write off those those

29:51sewer charges. When people repair

29:53something and can show proof of repair,

29:56our policy is that we write off a

29:58portion of the sewer uh that we would

30:01have charged them. Um, so it actually

30:04acts as an insurance pro policy for us

30:06because we're getting that money. It

30:08doesn't get sent to the customer who

30:09they can go spend on wherever they want.

30:12They only have to pay their average

30:14rate.

30:15then we would get the rest of the funds.

30:19However, uh doing the math,

30:23just a rough estimates of things, it

30:26would cost us about $140,000

30:29to be in that program. And our write

30:32offs the last two years were $80,000 and

30:36$60,000.

30:37So, the customer does well because

30:39they've gotten their monies wiped out,

30:43but we would

30:45because um we won't be spending to do

30:48it. So,

30:51>> okay. Well, I I felt like even though

30:54this was not something that I was

30:56deeply, you really think we should do, I

30:59felt like I because I knew that they

31:02were sending out and contacting

31:03everyone, I wanted to give you a chance

31:05to see it, hear it, and and give your

31:08feedback. If you were interested in it,

31:10then we would dive deeper into it.

31:13get all the peculiars worked out. But if

31:15you're not interested in either one of

31:17these programs, then it's easy for me to

31:19tell them that you don't have to do

31:20anything.

31:21>> Not interested in this one. But I really

31:23do appreciate this approach that you

31:24took with letting us know about as we in

31:27this budget season that we're in. It's

31:29going to take us to be a little more

31:30creative about how we're making up that

31:32shortfall. So I like this one, but I

31:34love you keep us in the loop.

31:37Well, I they've been pestering me, so

31:40it's I'll be able to tell them

31:45I've done my job.

31:46>> All right, moving on. Is there any

31:48additionates?

31:49>> No,

31:52second.

32:00>> We're getting there.

32:17They're both yours, right? Are you the

32:20deputy or

32:22>> vice chair?

32:25>> Which one do you want to do?

32:37>> One second.

33:03Need a minute or two to get switched

33:05over.