2026-10-26 - City Council

35:14Good evening. Everyone would

35:15like to call our city Council

35:18meeting order. We apologize for

35:20the delay. The city Council

35:21had, uh, uh, closed session

35:23that ran over, so we apologize

35:25for that. Thank you. Those who

35:26are joining us press your way

35:27here tonight to join us in the

35:29audience, those who are joining

35:30us remotely. We thank you as

35:31well. Uh, at this time, as with

35:32every meeting, we start with

35:34the invocation. We have, uh,

35:36pastor routing. Uh, uh, Mark

35:38Roden from Savannah Missionary

35:39Baptist Church and the routing

35:40World Ministries, uh, is coming

35:42forward. If we could please

35:43stand for the prayer

35:45immediately following the

35:46Pledge of Allegiance. Pastor,

35:50pastor, pastor.

35:51Let us pray. Eternal God, our

35:54father, we are grateful for

35:55this time of gathering

35:57together. We honor you on

35:59tonight and we thank you for

36:00your grace and for your mercy.

36:03And I pray God over our city

36:06Council, our mayor, the city

36:08manager and their staff. I pray

36:10over every citizen here in

36:12Fayetteville area. Father, we

36:14know that we are living in some

36:16challenging days and some tough

36:18decisions have to be made. I'm

36:21reminded of your servant David,

36:23who went through many

36:24challenges, but he reminds us

36:27in the fourth Psalm, the fourth

36:29verse, and said that it's okay

36:31to get angry, but let not our

36:33anger calls us to sin. He went

36:36on to say, and just let us

36:38ponder these things in our

36:40heart. So I pray for a calm

36:43spirit over all of us, and I

36:45pray for a spirit of

36:47discernment for our city

36:49leaders that they will make

36:51decisions that will be for the

36:53betterment of the city as a

36:55whole. In your Son, Christ's

36:57name I pray. Amen. Amen. Thank

36:59you sir.

37:00Pledge allegiance to the flag

37:02of the United States of America

37:04and to the Republic for which

37:06it stands. One nation under

37:09God, indivisible, with liberty

37:11and justice for all. All. All

37:14right. Thank you, Pastor

37:16Broughton. Uh, if you can tell

37:18us, we all know you, but tell

37:19us a little bit about yourself

37:20and your ministry, if you don't

37:21mind, sir.

37:22Uh, just briefly, I pastor the

37:24Savannah Missionary Baptist

37:26Church in Cedar Creek. Uh,

37:28also, I'm the president and

37:30founder of Mark Road

37:32International, right on

37:33Murchison Road, which is a

37:34global ministry. And we're

37:36grateful that we're doing

37:37ministry global across the

37:39globe in Africa, India and

37:41other places. But here locally

37:43at MRM, we have a feeding, um,

37:46program. We have a food bank,

37:48uh, we have a lending closet

37:50where we give out personal

37:51hygiene items. We give out

37:53household items, baby diapers,

37:55things of that nature. But if

37:57anyone wants to reach us, you

37:59can go to either Savannah

38:01Church, dot org or MRA.

38:04ministry.org can see the

38:06ministry that we're doing and

38:08the times and what we're doing.

38:09Thank you so much.

38:10Thank you ma'am. Thank you for

38:11that. Can you give pastor round

38:12and round of applause, please?

38:16Uh, Council. With that, we will

38:18move to our announcements. Uh,

38:22Council member McMillan. Thank

38:23you, Mr. Mayor.

38:24A number of announcements for

38:25the public. First, a reminder

38:27that voting is upon us. Early

38:29voting runs through the 31st of

38:32October. Saturday. Then, of

38:33course, election day is

38:34November 3rd. Encourage

38:36everybody to participate and

38:37vote. Uh, the Blue Star

38:39Memorial Veterans Day ceremony

38:41is going to be Wednesday,

38:43November 11th at 11 a.m. that's

38:45going to be a Freedom Memorial

38:47Park, 111 Bragg Boulevard on

38:50the 7th of November at 10 a.m..

38:52Uh, the Cumberland County

38:53Veterans Council will host the

38:55Veterans Day parade here in

38:56downtown on Hay Street. And,

38:59uh, on the 5th of November, I'm

39:02hosting a district eight pop up

39:05discussion on Alpers and mass

39:07surveillance. It's part of a

39:08series of pop up discussions.

39:10Welcome, everybody, to the

39:11space that's going to be on the

39:145th of November at 5 p.m. at

39:16the Cliff Dale library. Uh, and

39:18welcome, welcome. Anybody from

39:19the company or. Excuse me, from

39:21the the city who wants to talk

39:22about, uh, Alpers about this

39:25new sound contract and about

39:27mass surveillance as a whole?

39:28Thank you, Mr. Mayor.

39:29Thank you, sir. All right. Uh,

39:33Council seeing no others. Uh,

39:36we'll move to the city

39:37manager's report. Mister

39:38Hewitt. Doctor Hewitt. Yes,

39:39sir. Thank you so much. Um, I

39:42know.

39:42That many of you all are

39:43thinking. I'm going to talk

39:44about my birthday tonight. I'm

39:45not mayor, even though my

39:46birthday is on January 28th. I

39:49know you didn't forget that,

39:50but I do want to recognize

39:51Councilwoman Brenda McNair. If

39:53y'all could all wish her a

39:54happy birthday. We did that

39:55upstairs as well. As well. It's

39:59my self is a challenge

40:00continually being 21 years of

40:02age, but she wears it very

40:04well. But, um, mayor, I do have

40:06an exciting announcement. I

40:08think it's going to be a gift

40:09not only to the city council,

40:11but also to our building

40:12community as well. I'd ask

40:14Doctor Newton if you could come

40:15up and bring up the folks to

40:17talk about the US Department of

40:19Housing and Urban Development

40:20Award to the City of

40:21Fayetteville of $1 million. I

40:23think I see Alex Magana. Um,

40:25Chris, Callie, maybe Alex and

40:26others who were involved in

40:28that effort to come up and

40:29briefly describe what that is

40:30going to do for us. Um, we took

40:32to heart what the council said,

40:33which was for us to look at

40:34using other people's money to

40:36leverage what we have and focus

40:38on development services and

40:40making it easier to do business

40:41with the city, particularly

40:42through technology. Um, we

40:44identified an opportunity with

40:46Chris Collins, Eagle Eyes, his

40:47and I think, um, Alex Baker,

40:50who may not be here, and

40:51others, um, on the heels of

40:52our, um, HUD award for

40:54merkerson choice staff put

40:55together and you can tell us a

40:57little bit more about that..

40:58And thank you for, um, hearing

41:02this. We have a up to $1

41:05million of a HUD grant that is

41:08designed to continue process

41:10improvement. That was brought

41:12to our attention very quickly,

41:13and we decided to go after it.

41:15Chris Culley, with his

41:17expertise, uh, wrote it, uh,

41:20our IT director, Willie Henry,

41:23uh, informed it. And Alex

41:25Magana was in that spot of.

41:27Okay, if we get it, can you do

41:29it? So, um, we found out that

41:32that was actually awarded. Uh,

41:34you have it on as a consent

41:36item this evening, and it's a

41:39significant process improvement

41:41that continues what is already

41:43been going on. And I'll give

41:45another 30s of that time if

41:48we're allowed to. Chris Corley

41:50and then again to Alex and the

41:52other two. But thank you for

41:53giving us this opportunity, sir

41:56Chris.

41:58Uh, as usual, I don't think I

41:59can do better than Doctor

42:00Newton here. Um, he absolutely

42:03said it all. I was just lucky

42:05that, um, the manager's office

42:08routinely sends out grant

42:09announcements. And we came up,

42:10we saw something that could

42:12fit. Um. And we did. But, uh,

42:15we would not have been nearly

42:17as positioned to be strong in

42:18it had council not made some

42:21decisions. Working through a

42:23planning, um, to open up

42:25housing opportunities in our

42:26community to begin with. Um,

42:28and then on the the business

42:30case side of it, um, Alex and

42:33Willie really bringing the heat

42:35to, um, make sure we had a

42:37compelling case for us to get

42:38funded. Anything.

42:43Mayor, Council, thank you for

42:45the opportunity. Look forward

42:47to continuing to make an impact

42:49across the nation. We have

42:50recently released some permit

42:52automations that are affecting

42:5455 different municipalities

42:56across the US. Uh, we're going

42:58to use this funding now to

42:59continue that impact, uh, and

43:02continue to make a difference

43:03here for the the community that

43:04we serve. So again, thank you.

43:09They say technology only

43:11matters when it reaches the

43:12people. So, uh, we're

43:15extremely, uh, appreciative of

43:17this award. Um, to the

43:19colleagues that stand beside me

43:21to the construction and

43:24development, uh, planning

43:26individuals, uh, this is going

43:29to do a lot of good for a lot

43:30of people. So thank you for

43:31your support. And thank you to

43:33HUD for the award.

43:37Thank you sir. Thank you.

43:45All right. Council Hondros.

43:48Motion to.

43:48Approve the.

43:49Agenda. All right, Council

43:51member. Hondros. Second by

43:53Jones. Uh, any discussion? All

43:56right. Council, I'll look to

43:57you for your votes.

44:04820.

44:06Okay. All right. Motion

44:07carries. Unanimous. All right.

44:09Council moving to, uh, the

44:12consent items. I'll go to

44:15Councilmember Hondros.

44:16Motion to approve the consent

44:18agenda items. With the

44:19exception of 7.0867.08 ten.

44:26I think we just did Doctor

44:28Newton, Doctor Hewitt and team

44:317.0811. Uh, so pulling

44:337.0867.08 ten 7.0812 and 7.0814

44:40for separate vote.

44:41Okay. All right. There's a

44:42motion by Councilmember Hodges.

44:43Is that. Thank you a second.

44:44Sure. All right. Second. By

44:47here. Uh, just discussion. And

44:50this is the vote to approve.

44:51With the exceptions mentioned.

44:53All right. Council, look, three

44:54for your vote on that. All

44:58right. Motion carries. All

45:01right. Item 7.0. Eight six. Uh,

45:07so, Council, I asked this item,

45:09uh, to be to be pulled. Um, as

45:13we look at our corridor

45:16development. Um, is my

45:18understanding that this is a,

45:21um, an item that is here to ask

45:25for consideration of a rezoning

45:26for, um, for a gas. Another gas

45:30station. Um, as you know, we

45:32have had an abundance of gas

45:34stations and, and along our

45:37corridors, uh, some are right

45:39beside and right across from.

45:41And so asking for

45:42consideration. This is in the

45:43new medical district that we

45:45have an overlay. Um, uh,

45:47overlay standards that were

45:49passed some years ago in

45:50anticipation with Cape Valley's

45:51expansion of the campus. They

45:53want to make a walkable,

45:54viable, uh, livable, uh, by by

45:57them. And the new medical

45:58school students. So asking that

46:00this item would be pulled and,

46:02uh, possibly sent back to the

46:05applicant, or it could take an

46:06up or down vote. He's asking

46:07for conditional consideration,

46:10but, um, and in addition to

46:12that, uh, council also brought

46:15a corridor strategies to, to us

46:17about a year ago that, uh,

46:19haven't really seen that emerge

46:20out of community development

46:21that will that will be more

46:22intentional about, uh, the type

46:25of businesses that we, that

46:26we're looking to, to put in

46:27certain places so that there's

46:28not a huge concentration. But,

46:30um, that's the consideration

46:32and thought tonight to ask this

46:33item to be tabled, uh, to allow

46:36uh, maybe the, the applicant to

46:38do something different. Yes,

46:39sir.

46:39Um, standing to be corrected by

46:42staff. I think this would be

46:43you'd set it for a public

46:44hearing. Okay. Um, I think

46:46that's your options when it's

46:47on consent. Is that correct? So

46:50your ask tonight would be to

46:51pull this and set it for a

46:52public hearing before council,

46:53at which time you can remain it

46:55or direct it.

46:55So two steps to it. Okay. All

46:57right. Councilwoman Herring and

47:00Hondros. Oh, is that old? Yeah.

47:04Well.

47:04Yes, sir. That's going.

47:05To be as well. Yeah.

47:07All right. Councilman Hondros,

47:08you had the light on.

47:09Yeah, for 7.086. Is it possible

47:12to ask a question of staff?

47:15Yes, sir.

47:16I'm just curious if this, um.

47:21Application and the proposed

47:23rezoning meets the land use.

47:26The current land use map and

47:29text.

47:30Uh, yes, sir. It is the, um,

47:33planning Zoning Commission did

47:35find that it was consistent

47:36with the overall land use plan.

47:39And staff recommended denial or

47:41approval.

47:42Um, staff did recommend

47:43approval. And, um, the zoning

47:46commission also recommended

47:47approval.

47:48Yeah. I mean, I don't know if I

47:51could the fact that it it

47:53reached those two things. I

47:54don't know how it could not

47:55support it, but that's just me.

47:57Yes, sir. All right. And so,

48:03uh, Doctor Hewitt,

48:04procedurally, what you're

48:05saying is that, um, instead of

48:08approval, it could be to set a

48:09public hearing. Um.

48:13Okay.

48:15So, uh, councilman.

48:18I move that we accept the

48:19rezoning as recommended by

48:22staff in the zoning commission.

48:24Okay. All right, there's a

48:25motion by Councilmember

48:26Hondros. Is there a second?

48:28Second by green. Discussion.

48:31All right, Council, I'll look

48:33to you for your votes. And this

48:34is to approve it as is without

48:36the public hearing. All right.

48:42Motion fails. All right. If we

48:44can have a motion to set it for

48:45public hearing. Mayor Pro tem.

48:49Yes.

48:55All right.

48:56Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Uh, I

48:58move that, we move it to a

48:59public hearing. But I also have

49:01a question. Once I get a

49:02second, Mr. Mayor.

49:03All right. Is there a second

49:04council councilman? Davis?

49:06Second.

49:06Mr. mayor, I know that, uh,

49:08Cape Fear has bought a lot of

49:10property on Village Drive. They

49:12even did condemnation to, I

49:15think, do the medical school.

49:16Have they had an opportunity to

49:18look at this property and see

49:19how it fit into their overlay?

49:22Yeah, I don't know. I haven't I

49:23haven't spoken with them, but I

49:25just I just knew when, when

49:27previous CEO and the new miss

49:29New CEO Mr. West came to us, he

49:31talked about that they were

49:33looking for additional

49:34crosswalks. They were looking

49:35for additional walkability. So

49:37I'm sure they're planning, uh,

49:40you know, it may include that.

49:41One more reason to bring it to

49:42a public campus.

49:44All right. Any other questions?

49:46Uh, during the discussion

49:47phase. And this is to set a

49:48public hearing. All right,

49:50Council, look to you for your

49:51vote to set the public hearing.

50:02All right. Motion carries to

50:03set the public hearing those

50:04voting and oppose Councilmember

50:05Green and Hondros. All right.

50:07Moving to the next one that was

50:09pulled was 7.08 ten, I think

50:15was Councilmember McMillan. Was

50:16that yours?

50:16Yes. Thank you, Mr. Mayor.

50:18Yeah. This, um, is an item I

50:20want to pull for public

50:21interest. And I think I have a

50:23question for a human relations

50:24committee Commission? Excuse

50:27me. How are you doing now?

50:30Not remotely.

50:32Okay. Director, I stand

50:34corrected. Thank you. And, uh,

50:38we saw this as something that

50:40was on our consent agenda.

50:41Look, look. Pretty routine. Uh,

50:43just reading through the

50:44bylaws. Um, I saw a read. I

50:47think it was described in the

50:49in the captions as as more of

50:51cleanup, uh, routine. I did see

50:53that this has been revised as

50:55recently as January of 2026.

50:57This year, uh, one of the

50:58things I noted in scrubbing

51:00through the document is that

51:02diversity, equity and inclusion

51:04were removed from the document.

51:07I had questions about why, if

51:09that was something that was

51:10mandated, uh, from state or

51:14federal, um, or is that

51:17something that was a local

51:19decision. And I just wanted to

51:20understand what the reason for

51:22that change was.

51:24It was not mandated. It was not

51:27mandated by the city, the

51:28state, or the federal

51:29government. It was our

51:32determination that we should

51:34remain consistent with the rest

51:37of the world at this point, as

51:39it relates to Dei. I will say

51:43that the work continues under

51:46human relations.

51:50Okay.

51:50Um, I appreciate the the candid

51:53response. Um, last year, uh,

51:57there was a lot of discussion

51:59about how things on the

52:01national stage would impact us

52:02locally. A lot of questions

52:04about what our values are as a

52:05city and how we would keep

52:07those values intact, how we

52:09could, uh, affirm those values

52:10to the people who live here.

52:12Uh, and whether we would meet

52:14the changes that were happening

52:16federally with acquiescence,

52:18with silence. Uh, and as a, as

52:20a city, I think it still stands

52:22to stands to be seen as to how

52:24we respond properly. Uh, to

52:27changes at the federal level.

52:29But I, um, I do have concerns

52:31about changing our verbiage.

52:33Uh, not not because we're

52:34mandated to do so. Uh, if our

52:37values really are as a city,

52:39uh, standing behind diversity,

52:41equity and inclusion, and I

52:43would be in supportive of

52:44keeping that verbiage and, uh,

52:46want to see what your thoughts

52:47are. Uh, on if if there was a

52:52discussion, uh, through the

52:53commission about this, if there

52:54was any contention if anybody

52:56is similarly said that we do

52:58need to stand behind Dei as an

53:00idea, as a concept, something

53:01that I think has been a part of

53:03the fabric of this commission

53:05for a while. And, uh, wonder

53:08what the trigger is and what

53:09your thoughts are, and keeping

53:10that.

53:14The commission has known me for

53:16years. My values do not change

53:18because my title changes. The

53:21fact of the matter is that we

53:22remain consistent in making

53:25sure that we make Fayetteville

53:27the best place to live when it

53:29comes to diversity, equity,

53:31inclusion. In all honesty. You

53:34can give my title janitor and

53:39the work will still continue

53:42because it has to be done.

53:49All right.

53:50Yes, sir. Uh, Mr. Mayor, I'd

53:52like to put this up for, uh, an

53:55up or down vote. Now, we just

53:57want to encourage us to to

53:59continue to affirm our our

54:02values as a city and to use the

54:04language that actually

54:05underscores what our values

54:06are. And just, uh, encourage,

54:08encourage all staff, all people

54:11who, uh, who work in

54:12conjunction with the city to,

54:14to uphold those values. Um, and

54:17would like the rest of the

54:19council to consider the

54:20direction that, uh, that at

54:22least starts a more in-depth

54:24discussion of of how we affirm

54:25our values.

54:26So.

54:27So, Councilmember, before you

54:29make that motion, I'm

54:29wondering, is it practical that

54:32we take this back, given that

54:34because this was not so when

54:36the city Council votes to

54:38affirm this, and that means

54:40that's our official position.

54:41So this is right now it's a

54:43recommendation by Human

54:44relations to take it out, but

54:45it's not mandated. Um, now, we

54:47we we were here a few weeks ago

54:50when the, the, uh, the various

54:52departments, uh, HUD and they

54:54do mandate it when you're

54:55receiving federal dollars. But

54:58I would be open if you're open

54:59to it. Council member I guess

55:00we can. I'd like to send it

55:02back to work session and go

55:03through this to to get our

55:04official position before we

55:06affirm it. Or it can be an up

55:07or down vote. But what happens

55:08in that point? There's got to

55:09be some follow up action or the

55:11verbiage stays the same. Was

55:12this that was one example where

55:15the other things in here that

55:17were noncompliant with the law

55:18or what, what prompted some of

55:20the other changes that were

55:21made other than a position

55:23change?

55:23Just clean up. There are some

55:26things that needed to be

55:27updated. It wasn't, uh, it

55:30didn't have any.

55:35Okay. All right.

55:38All right.

55:39Councilman here. Thank you.

55:41Mayor. Um, I, I don't have a

55:43problem with it. Going to a

55:45work session. If if there. I

55:48mean, there's so much that's

55:49out here about us not using,

55:51uh. Um, DEA or us not using Dei

55:57and us not using any kind of

55:59support for, um. Uh, you know,

56:04a racial balance. Um, I mean, I

56:08support where this where this

56:09is going. So, um, I don't have

56:12a problem with it going to if

56:15if there's not a mandate on us

56:16to take it out, why is it out?

56:18And if it's just the way of the

56:20world, I mean, it's so I, I

56:23would support it going to a

56:24work session and us discussing

56:26it.

56:27All right. Councilman McMillan.

56:30Yeah, I appreciate that. I

56:31would like to take this to a

56:32work session to put a motion

56:34on, on the floor to do so, and

56:35then also would like to invite

56:37you, uh, to the table to

56:40collaborate on, on how we can

56:41affirm our values, not just in

56:43this verbiage, on this

56:44document, but in other ways.

56:46Uh, but we'd love to have a

56:47more thorough discussion on

56:48this, but thank you.

56:49Absolutely. My favorite

56:51subject.

56:52All right. It's a motion by

56:54Councilmember McMillan, second

56:55by Davis. Uh, discussion. All

56:58right, counselor, look to you

56:59for your votes. And this goes

57:00to a work session. That's what

57:01this vote is for. Uh, who are

57:06missing? Okay. All right.

57:09Motion carries. Unanimous.

57:10Thank you, Mr. Miele.

57:12Good job, sir.

57:14All right. Uh, 7.0811 has been

57:21addressed. You're good. Okay.

57:237.0812.

57:24Thank you. Mayor.

57:24Councilman.

57:25Here. Uh, yeah. Thank you.

57:26Mayor. Uh, who's going to come

57:28up and sort of give us this

57:30announcement? Uh, okay.

57:32Director calling uh, first as

57:34he comes out. Uh, I had a great

57:36opportunity to, uh, partner

57:38with our community, uh, group

57:43last week. Many of my

57:44colleagues up here, uh, came

57:46for staff. Thank you all for

57:47coming to talk about this

57:50particular subject. Great.

57:51Great thing. If you would just

57:53kind of highlight what's taking

57:55place with this, and we'll move

57:56from there for for up or down

57:58vote. That's all I wanted to do

58:00for the public to hear.

58:01Yes, sir. I made a presentation

58:03for both of these items just in

58:05case y'all. Y'all did this..

58:07Good job last week, sir.

58:09Thank you. I appreciate it, and

58:11I'm happy to continue having

58:14conversations with the

58:15community. Um, the last thing I

58:17said at Councilmember Harris

58:20community meeting the other

58:21night was that that was the

58:23beginning of a conversation at

58:24the end of one. Um, we have to

58:26do this in concert with the

58:27community for the next eight

58:28years. It's that it's part of

58:31the requirement. Um, and so we

58:34will be talking quite a bit

58:35throughout Parks and Road

58:36throughout the year process.

58:38Um, so tonight, what we're

58:40asking council to do is to

58:41accept the $25.1 million grant.

58:45Uh, appropriate those funds and

58:47to approve a draft, uh, long

58:49commitment letter to the

58:51Housing authority for

58:52acquisition of Elliott Circle,

58:53which is one of the first, very

58:55first steps in our overall

58:56transformation plan.

58:58Thank you, sir.

58:59Yeah. So just very briefly, uh,

59:00we're talking 323 mixed income

59:03apartments, support for the

59:05residents of those those

59:06existing properties at

59:07Murchison Townhouses and

59:08Elliott Circle. And then

59:10revitalization, uh, investments

59:12for new home ownership, uh,

59:14small business grants, uh,

59:16improved trails, gateways and

59:17placemaking. Um, just to give

59:20you an idea. Um, and it's

59:23mentioned in your cecum with

59:24the $25.1 million grant

59:27requires the city to have a 5%

59:29match. We are way more than

59:31making that through over $20

59:32million worth of planned city

59:33investments, including from our

59:35housing Bond and Community

59:36Development Block grant funds.

59:38Uh, the separate action for

59:39Elliott Circle will get repaid

59:41back to us. Um, once that

59:43construction begins on those

59:44sites. Mhm. Um, just to explain

59:47that, because this is a big

59:48deal, right. So yeah. So the

59:51Elliott Circle site will have

59:52208 of those 323

59:54Units on it. Um, it's about a

59:5616.5 acre site. Um, the the

59:59acquisition price of 3.5

1:00:02million was confirmed by our

1:00:04own appraiser. We ordered

1:00:05appraisals and review

1:00:06appraisals to to confirm that

1:00:07acquisition price. The housing

1:00:09authority has already put

1:00:11$75,000 into getting the option

1:00:13on it. Um, and this will help

1:00:15complete that. Um, we have to

1:00:17structure this as if. What if

1:00:19it didn't? What if all we were

1:00:20doing was giving a loan to the

1:00:22housing authority? So it has a

1:00:2315 year term on it? Um, but we

1:00:26don't expect for that long to

1:00:27go through the full term. We

1:00:28expect for by March of 2028 for

1:00:30them to close on the first

1:00:31phase, pay us back some money

1:00:33and cycle that money back

1:00:34through. Um, one of the nice

1:00:37things with this, though, is

1:00:38that central to our plan is

1:00:40that the Housing Authority

1:00:41acquires Elliott Circle and

1:00:42starts providing resources and

1:00:43services to those residents, as

1:00:45well. Uh, just a couple of

1:00:47deadlines that are coming up. I

1:00:48know a lot of you are getting

1:00:49questions about what happens

1:00:50now. Um, so after you all

1:00:53approve this tonight, uh, we

1:00:55will get the grant agreement

1:00:56signed and returned to HUD. Uh,

1:00:58the Housing authority approved

1:00:59it about two weeks ago at their

1:01:00board meeting. Um, by the end

1:01:02of the year, we have to have

1:01:04startup plans for resident

1:01:05services. And what an overall

1:01:06timeline for the eight years

1:01:08looks like. By this time next

1:01:10year, we have to have detailed

1:01:13plans for the people and

1:01:14neighborhood pieces. So that's

1:01:16where you'll see us coming to

1:01:17council and talking about how

1:01:18exactly are we going to use the

1:01:20money for the Glenville Lake

1:01:21Connector trail? How exactly

1:01:23are we going to use the money

1:01:23on placemaking and on business

1:01:25assistance and new

1:01:26homeownership? So the action is

1:01:29really a couple of different

1:01:30things here, right? Approve the

1:01:32grant, adopt and appropriate

1:01:34the the money and then approve

1:01:36the loan for Elliott Circle.

1:01:38And that's all I got for

1:01:40tonight.

1:01:40Uh thank you mayor. I'd like to

1:01:42move a motion, sir. All right.

1:01:45Next. Go ahead. Okay. Um, I

1:01:49moved that we accept the

1:01:50Murchison choice of

1:01:52neighborhood implementation.

1:01:53Implementation grant and adopt

1:01:55the special Revenue Fund

1:01:57Project. Ordinance 26, dash

1:02:010687, appropriating the federal

1:02:05funds and authorize the city

1:02:06manager to execute the grant

1:02:08agreement and associated

1:02:11documents, and to approve the

1:02:12bridge loan to F MH A to

1:02:16support the acquisition of

1:02:18Elliott Circle.

1:02:20All right. As a motion by

1:02:22Councilmember Harris, seconded

1:02:23by Councilmember McNair. Uh,

1:02:26discussion on said motion was.

1:02:30Discussion on. Okay. All right.

1:02:32Council, look to your for your

1:02:33vote.

1:02:37Thank you. Mayor. Thank you.

1:02:38All right. Good job, Mr. Colin.

1:02:41Yes, sir. Councilmember. Here.

1:02:42All right. Council moving to,

1:02:46uh, public hearing.

1:02:48We do. have 14. 14.

1:02:52Okay. Councilmember. Yes, sir.

1:02:54Councilmember McMillan, you

1:02:55pulled out?

1:02:55Yeah. Thank you, Mr. Mayor.

1:02:56This, uh, also pulled because

1:02:58it's an item of public

1:02:59interest. Um, I was just in a

1:03:01district meeting last Thursday

1:03:03night, and this came up this

1:03:05elevator and a lot of other

1:03:07projects. Um, concern on two

1:03:10sides. One that we had gone

1:03:12this long as a city without

1:03:13having Ada accessibility. Uh,

1:03:16for the parking deck across the

1:03:17street. Uh, but the other

1:03:19concern is about how much

1:03:21money, uh, we've wasted as a

1:03:24city. Uh, and years of failed

1:03:27development right across the

1:03:28street from City Hall. Uh,

1:03:30wanted to ask, uh, if I am in

1:03:34support of the elevator as as

1:03:36was suggested by my vote last

1:03:38week. Uh, but I wanted to ask,

1:03:40uh, council city manager. Uh,

1:03:44if, um, if we can do so with,

1:03:49uh, a good cost estimate for

1:03:51the public and then also with

1:03:53the funding source identified.

1:03:56Uh, publicly, uh, so that we're

1:03:59very transparent about how we

1:04:00proceed, uh, in this, in this

1:04:03elevator project. And I'll be

1:04:05willing to support this with

1:04:07the condition that staff come

1:04:08back to us with those questions

1:04:10answered.

1:04:11Uh, all right. So thank you,

1:04:13Councilmember McMillan. This

1:04:14was, uh, item that I brought to

1:04:15council, actually, um, about

1:04:18the elevator. And again, um,

1:04:19just to put some context in it.

1:04:22Um, this was a developers non,

1:04:29uh, performance of what they

1:04:30agreed to do. Um, and the city,

1:04:34uh, did not necessarily put

1:04:36money into that. The developer

1:04:38just never was able to get

1:04:40their development off the

1:04:41ground. And as you know, we've

1:04:42talked about that. But what it

1:04:44has caused was that the city

1:04:46did not deliver to the

1:04:48taxpayers a completed project,

1:04:50waiting on a developer that was

1:04:52never able to do it. And now a

1:04:54new, uh, party has emerged. But

1:04:57I brought this to council to

1:04:58say that we need to complete

1:05:00this. And if the development

1:05:02moves forward, it moves

1:05:02forward. But that was the ass

1:05:04that was brought to council.

1:05:06That was what, uh, was approved

1:05:07by council to get us here to

1:05:08complete that. And, and and

1:05:12today, hopefully, uh, council

1:05:15will support this item to go

1:05:16ahead and put the elevator in

1:05:18to complete our promise to the

1:05:20community, which was to build

1:05:21the parking deck. Uh, and the

1:05:23manager can speak to the

1:05:25ability of it, uh, to this

1:05:27point with the TCO. I think

1:05:29there was some accessibility,

1:05:31but the elevator would provide

1:05:32full access to the entire 4 or

1:05:355 floors. But, uh, doctor here,

1:05:36do you want to address that

1:05:37component?

1:05:38Yes, sir. Um, thank you, mayor,

1:05:39and thank you for the question,

1:05:40Councilman McMillan. Um, this

1:05:43has, as the mayor mentioned,

1:05:43been a long time in coming. Um,

1:05:45and the city has relied on a

1:05:47variety of folks to, to make it

1:05:48happen. And the council rightly

1:05:51said it was time for us to step

1:05:52up and put it in. And that's

1:05:53what the staff is doing at

1:05:54council's direction. Um, the

1:05:57there is a bid on the street

1:05:58right now for design, build,

1:06:00build. Um, and it is available

1:06:02on the city's website. And the

1:06:05closing date for that, um bid

1:06:07proposal is November 24th.

1:06:10After that closes, staff will

1:06:12bring those bids back to

1:06:13council with the determination

1:06:15and recommendation. And at that

1:06:17point in time, we'll have full

1:06:18transparency about where the

1:06:19money is coming from. The

1:06:20timeline and schedule, what it

1:06:22might look like as we bring

1:06:23back to council that time, some

1:06:25of that we could possibly

1:06:26answer tonight, but we or has

1:06:28it to give a number until we

1:06:30actually go back and get that

1:06:31from the folks who are

1:06:32soliciting bid from. But in

1:06:35what's to date. Uh, 26, in less

1:06:39than 30 days. We'll be back

1:06:41before you what, probably more

1:06:43than 30 days, because we got to

1:06:44let it close and then come

1:06:45back. But probably 1st of

1:06:47December. We're back before

1:06:48city Council with, um, the bids

1:06:50in hand. Hopefully a

1:06:52recommendation and definitely a

1:06:53funding source of council to

1:06:54move forward on that.

1:06:56All right. Are there.

1:06:57There is an active bid on the

1:06:59street. So I know. Yes, sir. We

1:07:01kind of can't talk about that.

1:07:03But you know, the fact you'll

1:07:04share it is is good. But we

1:07:06don't want to impact anyone

1:07:07bidding on on this work, so.

1:07:09All right, Council, with that,

1:07:10uh, we'll look to you for, uh,

1:07:13motion, uh, mayor pro tem or to

1:07:15move this 7.084814.

1:07:20Thank you. Mayor. I move that

1:07:21we proceed with, uh, 7.814 to

1:07:26get the parking deck. Uh, uh,

1:07:27redone.

1:07:28All right. Motion by Mayor Pro

1:07:29tem, second by Davis. Um, any

1:07:31further discussion? If not,

1:07:33I'll look to you for your votes.

1:07:36Um. I'm sorry, Mayor Colvin. Is

1:07:40it just to receive or. We're

1:07:42going to authorize? We need to

1:07:44authorize.

1:07:45Yeah, I think that's what the

1:07:46motion was for. Well. Oh,

1:07:47you're saying he needs to

1:07:48change his verbiage?

1:07:49I would recommend that he.

1:07:50Okay. So can you amend it to

1:07:52include the attorney's

1:07:53recommended.

1:07:54I read. Thank you, Mr. Mayor. I

1:07:56authorize the use to design

1:07:57build construction method for

1:07:58the Hay Street parking deck

1:07:59project and direct staff to

1:08:00proceed with the procurement.

1:08:02All right. There's a motion.

1:08:03Did you take the amended

1:08:05second? All right. Seconded by

1:08:06Davis. All right. Council look

1:08:08to you for your votes. And that

1:08:10is as stated. All right. Madam

1:08:15clerk, it's unanimous as well.

1:08:17All right. Moving forward, uh,

1:08:20to the public hearing. Uh, at

1:08:26this time, we will prepare to

1:08:28hold the public hearing with

1:08:29the city Council formally seeks

1:08:30your input, individual design

1:08:32to speak at the hearing. Must

1:08:33have signed up to speak with

1:08:34the city clerk by name and

1:08:35address for the start of

1:08:36tonight's meeting. We'll begin

1:08:38with the presentation by Miss

1:08:39Baptiste. And then we'll move

1:08:40into the formal hearing. 15

1:08:42minutes will be allowed for

1:08:43those in favor and those

1:08:44opposing the item discussed in

1:08:46the hearing. Individual

1:08:47speakers are limited to three

1:08:48minutes each, unless by a

1:08:50previous arrangement. Single

1:08:52spokesperson is designated, in

1:08:53which case the spokesperson may

1:08:55use the entire 15 minutes. When

1:08:57the city clerk calls your name,

1:08:58please come to the podium.

1:08:59Please clearly state your name

1:09:00and address. For the record.

1:09:01You may then address the City

1:09:02Council when the light changes

1:09:04from green to amber, it means

1:09:05you have 30s remaining and at

1:09:07the conclusion of your time,

1:09:09the light will turn red and

1:09:10your timer will ring. So with

1:09:11that, Baptiste will turn it

1:09:13over to you.

1:09:14Good evening, mayor and city

1:09:16council. Um, today I'm bringing

1:09:18to you annexation request 2602.

1:09:23This is a request by Revival

1:09:25Realty, LLC. Um, to initially

1:09:28annex a property located off of

1:09:31Gillespie Street. The property

1:09:33is currently undeveloped and is

1:09:35current, and is 9.49 acres. As

1:09:41you can see from the aerial

1:09:42map, the property is located

1:09:45just east of Gillespie Street,

1:09:47across the street is Pierce

1:09:50Mills Fire Station and an

1:09:53unopened or unused warehouse

1:09:56space. The property is

1:10:00currently undeveloped and has

1:10:03not been developed um since at

1:10:06least 1968. Um. The property is

1:10:10located just east of Gillespie

1:10:13Street and west of Bennett. Um.

1:10:15The property is approximately

1:10:179.49 acres, and the proposed

1:10:20use that the applicant has

1:10:22identified as a flex space. Um,

1:10:24that's going to have flex and

1:10:27retail offerings. The property

1:10:33to the north. Um, as you can

1:10:36see, these are a couple of

1:10:37pictures of the surrounding

1:10:38properties. The properties to

1:10:41the north are, um, currently

1:10:43zoned as County Industrial. To

1:10:46the south is the county zoning

1:10:48of commercial. To the east is

1:10:50County industrial, and to the

1:10:53west is high industrial. Um,

1:10:55within the city of Fayetteville.

1:10:59This is the concept plan

1:11:01provided by the applicant.

1:11:03Again, the items identified in

1:11:06orange are proposed retail

1:11:08spaces and the, um, I the

1:11:12picture shows a little bit of

1:11:14pink or kind of a fuchsia

1:11:16color. Um, those items are

1:11:19supposed to be flex space.

1:11:24Staff is recommending that the

1:11:26city council adopt this

1:11:27annexation ordinance, and it is

1:11:30related to the, um, property

1:11:32that or the case that was

1:11:35determined on um, consent. P-26

1:11:40Dash 33, um, to be zoned as

1:11:43community commercial. So the

1:11:45staff is recommending that you

1:11:47do annex this property. Um,

1:11:49with the effective date of

1:11:51October 26th, 2026. Your

1:11:56options are to adopt the

1:11:58annexation ordinance with the

1:12:00effective date of October 26th,

1:12:022026. Um, adopt the annexation

1:12:05ordinance with a deferred

1:12:06effective date of June 30th,

1:12:102027. Um. Deny the annexation

1:12:13or continue consideration of

1:12:16the item to a specific future

1:12:18date for further review and

1:12:20discussion. Um, that staff's

1:12:23presentation, we ask that you

1:12:26hold staff. Um, any questions

1:12:28for staff until after the

1:12:30public hearing? Um, and we I

1:12:32believe we do have one speaker

1:12:34to come and speak for the for

1:12:37the case. Thank you.

1:12:39Thank you, Miss Baptist. So

1:12:40with that, Madam Clerk, we will

1:12:42open up public hearing. May

1:12:45call you first.

1:12:46Yes, sir. Uh, we have one

1:12:48speaker, Mr. Kelly. Uh,

1:12:50Motorola.

1:12:54Good evening, and thank you for

1:12:55the opportunity. Good evening.

1:12:57I'm the co-founder of Rival

1:13:00Reality. And, uh, my my partner

1:13:03and I, we build, uh, flex

1:13:04spaces, uh, in the Dallas metro

1:13:06area. And this recent

1:13:08acquisition was done with the

1:13:10intent of building a similar

1:13:11product in Fayetteville,

1:13:12because we've identified this

1:13:14as a high growth corridor. And,

1:13:16uh, what we take pride in is

1:13:18not building, not we don't

1:13:20build ten sheds that are very

1:13:22harsh looking industrial. We

1:13:24build nicer buildings that have

1:13:26a aesthetic, like our

1:13:28developments in Dallas, have

1:13:30decent amount of brick and

1:13:31stone and masonry in it. Um,

1:13:33and this park has been

1:13:35conceived as a mixed use park

1:13:37because it has highway

1:13:38frontage. Uh, so hence we've

1:13:40decided to put some retail in

1:13:41it, and it's all based on our

1:13:43analytics and research that

1:13:44there's demand for small Bay

1:13:46flex, because there's that that

1:13:49smaller bay size is underserved

1:13:51in the local commercial

1:13:53industrial warehouse space. Any

1:13:57questions?

1:14:00I'm seeing right now, sir.

1:14:01Thank you.

1:14:01Thank you. Let me ask one,

1:14:03Mister mayor, if I can.

1:14:04I thought you got away. Yes,

1:14:05sir.

1:14:06Yes, sir. Um. I was impressed

1:14:08by something that you just

1:14:09said. That it is marked for a

1:14:11high growth corridor. Yes. How

1:14:13did you determine that area?

1:14:14And are you looking for other

1:14:15areas in Fayetteville to do

1:14:16something similar?

1:14:17Um, we we have a certain set of

1:14:19metrics we look at in every

1:14:22area that we plan to build. Um,

1:14:25because our product has certain

1:14:27amount of construction costs

1:14:29that needs to be recovered. So

1:14:30we look at lease rates, we do,

1:14:32uh, Facebook marketing

1:14:34campaigns to see the demand. We

1:14:36look at the neighboring, um,

1:14:38uh, inventory. We talk to

1:14:39brokers and all that due

1:14:41diligence went in and took us

1:14:42six months to decide to buy

1:14:45this piece of land. So some of

1:14:48the metrics that go into, uh,

1:14:50determining if it's high growth

1:14:51corridor or not is, um, the

1:14:54amount of new jobs, because

1:14:55this is a military town, it's

1:14:57pretty much recession proof

1:14:58because there's federal funding

1:14:59coming in. So that's more or

1:15:02less insulated. Um, also we

1:15:05look at, um, because this is

1:15:07not a typical, uh, suburb where

1:15:12there are headquarters of

1:15:14corporations moving in. Moving

1:15:15in, creating jobs. It's mostly

1:15:17the federal government creating

1:15:18jobs. Yes. Hence we came to the

1:15:20conclusion that even though the

1:15:22typical metrics that developers

1:15:24look at is new, home starts,

1:15:27um, median income, uh, and, uh,

1:15:32those were counterintuitive.

1:15:34But knowing the fact that this

1:15:35is a military town, uh, I made

1:15:37the decision to move ahead and

1:15:39build over here.

1:15:40Thank you for choosing

1:15:41Fayetteville, sir.

1:15:41My pleasure.

1:15:43All right. Uh, Council

1:15:45McMillan.

1:15:46Yeah. Thank you, Mr. Mayor. And

1:15:47I think this is a question for

1:15:48Miss Pettis. And I'm sorry if I

1:15:51missed this during the original

1:15:52presentation. Uh, can you say

1:15:55again who? The who? The

1:15:56neighboring or adjacent

1:15:58property owners are? Uh, that

1:16:00occupied the heavy industrial

1:16:02and then, uh, community

1:16:04commercial spaces, uh, nearby.

1:16:07Um, well, the heavy industrial

1:16:10property is across the street

1:16:12and it's currently vacant. It

1:16:15is developed as a, um, large

1:16:17scale warehouse, but is

1:16:19currently vacant. And behind it

1:16:22is Pierce Mills. Um, fire

1:16:25station. Okay. There's the, um,

1:16:27county fire station.

1:16:29Thank you, Mr. Pettis. You're

1:16:31welcome.

1:16:31All right. Uh, council member

1:16:33here.

1:16:33Uh. Thank you. Mayor. Uh,

1:16:36what's the gentleman's name?

1:16:40Mr. Moto.

1:16:41Mr. Moto wali. I looked through

1:16:44my cam here. Unless I'm

1:16:47overlooking. Let staff can help

1:16:48me. Is there a, uh, diagram or

1:16:54photo of. Your projected, uh,

1:17:02site? I didn't.

1:17:04See we.

1:17:04Had submitted that during the

1:17:06rezoning lesson.

1:17:07I've gone through every slide..

1:17:11Yeah.

1:17:12Yes. Because of the scale.

1:17:17I, I saw the aerial. No. I'm

1:17:19not. I saw that I wasn't

1:17:21meaning that. I mean it

1:17:22actually. Diagram of of what

1:17:24you were building.

1:17:26Yes.

1:17:29No.

1:17:29It was not.

1:17:31Yeah. No, I, I saw the

1:17:33overhead. Yeah. Okay. Thank you.

1:17:37All right. You had another

1:17:39question. Okay. All right.

1:17:41Councilman Davis. Thank you,

1:17:42Mr. Mayor. There's more

1:17:43questions.

1:17:43I'm prepared to make a motion,

1:17:44sir.

1:17:45Uh, let me close the public

1:17:46hearing. Did I close it?

1:17:47Jennifer?

1:17:48Yeah.

1:17:48Yes, I did.

1:17:50No you didn't.

1:17:50All right. All right. It's

1:17:52close now. Councilman Davis.

1:17:53Thank you, Mr. Mayor. I move

1:17:54that we, uh, adopt the

1:17:56annexation ordinance with the.

1:17:57Effective date of October 2026.

1:18:01Second.

1:18:02All right. It's a motion by

1:18:03Councilman Davis, seconded by

1:18:05here. Uh, discussion. We've had

1:18:08look to you for your votes. All

1:18:23right. Madam clerk, it's

1:18:24unanimous. All right. Moving to

1:18:30the next item, 8.02. Mr. Kelly.

1:18:58All right, so, uh, tonight

1:19:00we're holding a, um. We're

1:19:03asking council to hold a public

1:19:04hearing. Um, regarding the

1:19:06request that we received from

1:19:08some property owners to be

1:19:09removed from our downtown

1:19:10municipal service district. Uh,

1:19:12the Parkview owners

1:19:14Association's both of them.

1:19:15There's a condominium and a

1:19:17townhome association have

1:19:19requested removal of their

1:19:20parcels from the downtown

1:19:21municipal service District. Uh,

1:19:23totals 49 residential units at

1:19:25301 Bragg Boulevard. Uh, as a

1:19:28reminder, those municipal

1:19:29service district funds the

1:19:30additional tax for downtown

1:19:32funds, enhance downtown

1:19:34services for our arts and

1:19:35entertainment district. Today's

1:19:37purpose is to receive public

1:19:38input. Council is not required

1:19:41to decide on removal tonight.

1:19:44To approve removal, Council

1:19:46must find that the parcels do

1:19:48not need the district services,

1:19:50facilities or functions to a

1:19:52demonstrably greater extent

1:19:54than the remainder of the city.

1:19:55Residential use alone does not

1:19:57establish eligibility for

1:19:58removal. The finding from

1:20:00Council. Your determination is

1:20:02based on that framing right

1:20:04there. About the greater extent

1:20:06than the rest of the city.

1:20:09After you conduct the public

1:20:12hearing, you may take no

1:20:13further action at this meeting.

1:20:15Uh, you could direct staff to

1:20:16work with the city attorney's

1:20:17office to prepare a removal

1:20:19ordinance. Um, or you could

1:20:21refer the matter for further

1:20:22discussion or other direction.

1:20:25Removal requires an ordinance

1:20:27passed at two council meetings

1:20:28and takes effect at the end of

1:20:30the fiscal year. Um, this

1:20:32current hearing obviously has

1:20:35no fiscal impact. Um, uh, but

1:20:38removal would reduce the

1:20:39overall downtown's revenue. Uh,

1:20:42which means that staff would go

1:20:43back and talk about with

1:20:45budget. What level of service

1:20:47does that removal impact us?

1:20:51And that's the presentation.

1:20:52I'm happy to take any questions

1:20:54after the public hearing.

1:20:55All right. And thank you, Mr.

1:20:57Corley. And be getting the

1:20:58numbers together as to what

1:21:00type of budgetary impact. So

1:21:02don't don't do the I gotta get

1:21:03back with you to just have it

1:21:05because it's a pop up question

1:21:06coming after the public

1:21:07hearing. You mentioned a couple

1:21:09of times what specifically the

1:21:11impact would be on the 11% MSD.

1:21:14Tax, the operational impact.

1:21:15We've got the financing.

1:21:16Yeah, I understand, but put a

1:21:17number to that or get.

1:21:18Got that.

1:21:19Yeah. Yes, sir. Pretty close to

1:21:19it. Yes, sir. All right Madam

1:21:21Clerk, we'll open up public

1:21:22hearing.

1:21:23Mayor, we have one speaker for

1:21:24this item, Mr. Joseph Jackson.

1:21:35Good evening, Mr. Jackson.

1:21:36Good evening. Thank you for

1:21:39hearing us. Um. We initiated

1:21:44this November the 8th of 24.

1:21:47The original contract with um,

1:21:49Councilman Davis. And then my

1:21:51meeting with you. We've gone

1:21:54through all of the steps to

1:21:56address Mister Callie's issue.

1:21:58As far as the budgetary

1:22:03reduction that this would be

1:22:04for the downtown business

1:22:06district. As was discussed at

1:22:08the last meeting we received no

1:22:12additional benefit whatsoever.

1:22:14The question came up. Potholes

1:22:18in the community. Does the city

1:22:20pay for anything whatsoever

1:22:23additional for our community?

1:22:24And the answer is no. Um, we

1:22:29haven't received any funding

1:22:31from the city, in the community

1:22:34at all. And where we're located

1:22:39previously was a hotel years

1:22:40ago. Um, the taxation for the

1:22:46municipal district where the

1:22:49subway is at the railroad track

1:22:51behind us. From there, you have

1:22:55the airborne museum, you have

1:22:57the Veterans Park. They have

1:23:00gone across Bragg Boulevard,

1:23:04heavily traveled road, and

1:23:06picked us up as a member of the

1:23:09Municipal Services District,

1:23:12100% residential community.

1:23:15That, again, the main thing we

1:23:18receive absolutely no

1:23:21additional funding than any

1:23:24other community in the city of

1:23:26Faile. And we've gone back and

1:23:29forth. Um, Councilman McMillan

1:23:32was proposing to do this last

1:23:33time, but we had to take these

1:23:34additional steps, which we've

1:23:36gone back and done. Councilman,

1:23:39here, I think you led the work

1:23:41session where it was discussed.

1:23:44So you guys helping us would be

1:23:46greatly appreciative. So any

1:23:51questions that anyone has would

1:23:52be glad to answer.

1:23:56All right. I don't see any

1:23:57right now. Thank you sir. Thank

1:24:00you. All right. Madam clerk.

1:24:05Mayor, we have no further

1:24:06speakers.

1:24:06All right. So with that, we'll

1:24:08close the public hearing. Mr.

1:24:09Collier, do you have a answer

1:24:12for us on that?

1:24:16Yes, sir. I, um, I presented

1:24:18that when this issue first

1:24:20became, uh, came before

1:24:21council. That impact is about

1:24:2420 to $25,000 annually. Um,

1:24:27there are vehicles that are

1:24:28included in the property tax

1:24:29calculation, and that's kind of

1:24:30hard to do from the map. So I'm

1:24:32giving a little bit of a buffer

1:24:33there. But we're talking about

1:24:35the total budget of about

1:24:37$360,000 that we get in

1:24:39annually for our downtown MSD.

1:24:41It's about an 8% change. And so

1:24:43when I say that we have to go

1:24:44back and work with budget,

1:24:45that's not the dollar amount

1:24:47that we would not collect. It's

1:24:49what would we cut. What would

1:24:50we stop doing? Well.

1:24:52If we $25,000.

1:24:53Yes, sir. Yep.

1:24:55All right. And so, just for the

1:24:57listening audience, you may not

1:24:58be familiar with it. Um, this

1:25:01is a it's a it's. Mr. Jackson

1:25:05lives in a condominium complex

1:25:07that has HOA fees and things

1:25:09that takes care of some of

1:25:10those items that he that he

1:25:11had. So I don't know that

1:25:13everyone fully understood that.

1:25:14So they take care of their own

1:25:15trash. They fix, um, potholes

1:25:18in the parking lot and those

1:25:19kind of things. And so, their

1:25:22argument to us is that they're

1:25:23already paying for those

1:25:24services. So just wanted to

1:25:25make sure there was some

1:25:26context behind it. Councilman

1:25:27Davis.

1:25:28Yeah, I have a question for

1:25:28Mister Corley.

1:25:30Uh.

1:25:30Could you could you speak to

1:25:33two things? The services that

1:25:34you guys may have done in the

1:25:35past or do for the complex? The

1:25:39other question is when once if

1:25:42there removed the $25,000. I

1:25:46know you said you would talk it

1:25:47over with, I guess, Jeff, but

1:25:49would that be a burden on to

1:25:50those to those folks that are

1:25:51already in the MSD that will

1:25:53potentially cause us to raise

1:25:55the MSD funds? I mean, the tax.

1:25:58I don't even know.

1:25:59So, um, I think it's important

1:26:02to consider, um, a I want to

1:26:05make it clear that this, this

1:26:06item staff does not have a

1:26:08recommendation on whether you

1:26:09keep this in or do not. That's

1:26:11a policy direction from

1:26:12council. Um, what? We spend the

1:26:15municipal service, district

1:26:16revenue on currently is

1:26:20utilities for our parking decks

1:26:22downtown and for the arts and

1:26:25entertainment district that's

1:26:26put on with Cool Spring

1:26:27Downtown District as our

1:26:29downtown management company.

1:26:30Um, we don't spend any of these

1:26:32funds to pave potholes or fix

1:26:34sidewalks. That all comes out

1:26:36of the city's general fund that

1:26:37we spend that money on citywide

1:26:39for those services. Um, so when

1:26:44we come back to council and

1:26:47say, hey, would you like to

1:26:50reduce the downtown contract by

1:26:54X number of dollars or adjust

1:26:56the tax rate by this

1:26:58percentage, that that will be

1:27:00something that council has to

1:27:01help us. We'll make a

1:27:02recommendation for that. Um,

1:27:04and then council would decide

1:27:05but that would come back out at

1:27:06budget time. Um, but once you

1:27:08pull the money out we've got to

1:27:10decide if we, if we keep

1:27:12funding our downtown management

1:27:13at the same level, then that

1:27:14means that we've got to pay

1:27:15utilities out of some other pot

1:27:16of money, right out of the

1:27:17general fund.

1:27:18And that's my my only concern

1:27:20is that the folks that are

1:27:22living downtown already don't

1:27:24like that we have the tax rate

1:27:26that we have for MSD. So if we

1:27:27have to increase it because

1:27:28we're removing a small portion

1:27:31of it, um, there's a little

1:27:33discrepancy there. But thank

1:27:34you for answer my question,

1:27:35sir. Thank you..

1:27:36All right. Mayor Pro tem.

1:27:37Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Uh, Mr.

1:27:40Jackson, we come up for a

1:27:41quick. I just want you to get a

1:27:42total understanding of where we

1:27:44are. And I'm Mayor Pro Tem

1:27:46Derek Thompson, district six.

1:27:47That's in charge of the policy.

1:27:48And I know this has been before

1:27:50us, but I want the audience to

1:27:52understand that we have been

1:27:53waiting for the other part of

1:27:55your HOA to give us a certified

1:27:57letter to ask to be removed.

1:27:59That's how it came to here. We

1:28:00had a long discussion in policy

1:28:02in reference to this, and I

1:28:04asked the attorney what was the

1:28:05best cause of action to move

1:28:06forward because I wanted to

1:28:07move it to a work session.

1:28:09Well, she said that we need to

1:28:10have the public hearing first

1:28:11before we have the work

1:28:12session. So that's where we are

1:28:14right now. Uh, but I do believe

1:28:17when you talked about services,

1:28:19there was a time that you were

1:28:20being charged for a service

1:28:21that you wasn't provided. Can

1:28:23you.

1:28:24Charge for 11 years for tax or

1:28:26for trash services for the

1:28:28rollout? Trash cans that were

1:28:30never received from day one.

1:28:33And have.

1:28:34You been not not even one.

1:28:36Month, right. And I think

1:28:37that's how the conversation

1:28:38started. Would you bringing it

1:28:39back to council as far as the

1:28:41MSD?

1:28:42Um.

1:28:43We originally came to address

1:28:46the MSD again, shortfall from

1:28:50the current budget or not.

1:28:52We're a residential community,

1:28:55not even attached to the

1:28:58taxation. And if it did

1:29:01increase the taxes on other

1:29:02members in the service

1:29:04district, the purpose of that

1:29:07tax is to draw more consumers

1:29:12downtown, to patronize those

1:29:16businesses. You know, so the

1:29:18parking extra parking helps

1:29:23allow more people to come

1:29:25downtown and access these

1:29:27businesses. We have zero

1:29:29additional benefit. Being a

1:29:31residential community of any

1:29:34kind whatsoever from that, you

1:29:36know, so the discussion about

1:29:37the shortfall is, is. Very

1:29:42frustrating because we're no

1:29:44different than any other

1:29:44citizen in the city of

1:29:46Fayetteville, you know. Um.

1:29:48I understand you, Mister

1:29:49Jackson. I just wanted to

1:29:50assure you that you have

1:29:51brought this to me. And I know

1:29:52we're on a timeline, because if

1:29:53we don't have it done by

1:29:54January, you would be assessed

1:29:56another tax for the new year.

1:29:57So about $1,000 per year per

1:30:00owner, per year. When you count

1:30:03property taxes and car taxes.

1:30:08Um, about $150,000 from

1:30:12inception from when it started,

1:30:14not including the trash

1:30:16services that we were billed

1:30:17for over a decade, never

1:30:20received.

1:30:21Got you.

1:30:21Thank you sir.

1:30:24All right. So what's the what's

1:30:26the action?

1:30:27Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Uh, this.

1:30:28I'm prepared to make a motion

1:30:29to move this to the work

1:30:31session for November.

1:30:31Hold on a second.

1:30:32Madam clerk questions.

1:30:33Let me close the public

1:30:35hearing. Thank you. Thank you,

1:30:36Mr. Jackson. All right. Go

1:30:37ahead.

1:30:38Councilman Davis. Thank you,

1:30:39Mr. Mayor. I move that we move

1:30:40this to November 9th work

1:30:41session. If it's in November

1:30:462nd.

1:30:46Yes.

1:30:46The second.

1:30:47No.

1:30:48November 2nd.

1:30:48Yep. November 2nd.

1:30:49November 2nd.

1:30:50Work session.

1:30:51All right. Let me let me dispel

1:30:53this motion. Motion by, uh,

1:30:55Councilman Davis, seconded by

1:30:56Mayor Pro tem. Um, before we go

1:30:58to that, you had a question,

1:30:59Mr. Jackson.

1:31:01Moving this to a November work

1:31:04session means that there will

1:31:06not be two council meetings,

1:31:08that it can be voted on.

1:31:10We'll have three council

1:31:11members between.

1:31:12Then there'll be three.

1:31:13Yes.

1:31:13Yeah.

1:31:14We would be able to take care

1:31:15of this before. If it's not.

1:31:17Fine.

1:31:18We have the ninth, we have the

1:31:1923rd, and we have the 6th of

1:31:22December. I believe that would

1:31:22get you an answer to Mr.

1:31:23Jackson.

1:31:24Right?

1:31:26Okay.

1:31:26Yeah. No, it's been a long

1:31:28road. But, you know. Yeah, but

1:31:31thank you. Thank you for

1:31:32raising that. All right, so,

1:31:33Council, uh, if there's no

1:31:35further question, look to you

1:31:36before you vote, let's move

1:31:36just to, uh, the work session

1:31:39on the second. Uh, yeah, I

1:31:48don't know. All right. Madam

1:31:50clerk, what happened?

1:31:54Okay.

1:31:57Uh, right. Uh, who are we

1:32:06missing?

1:32:06Councilmember McNair.

1:32:08Councilmember McNair, what are

1:32:09you doing? All right, well, she

1:32:11carries 82. Those voting oppose

1:32:13Councilman Hondros and Greene.

1:32:15I think. All right, all right.

1:32:19Council moving to 9.01. Mr.

1:32:24McCauley, you back on transit?

1:32:26No, I was just closing on out.

1:32:27Okay. Was that Miss Tiffany?

1:32:34Yeah. She comes. Good evening.

1:32:42Good evening.

1:32:43Mr. Mayor.

1:32:43Mayor Pro.

1:32:44Tem, Council.

1:32:45Members. Good evening. My name

1:33:00is Andy Gaudio. I'm the

1:33:02intergovernmental military

1:33:03manager in the city manager's

1:33:04office. And tonight I'm going

1:33:07to present an initial overview

1:33:09of a project that's underway.

1:33:11And with me tonight is Director

1:33:13Neil, uh, from the transit

1:33:15department, who I've been

1:33:16working closely with on this

1:33:18initiative since summer. Um,

1:33:20this evening I'm going to

1:33:21introduce a new program that

1:33:22we're working on with Fort

1:33:24Bragg in collaboration with the

1:33:26North Carolina Department of

1:33:27Transportation. Earlier this

1:33:30month. The Fort Bragg

1:33:35Department of Public Works in

1:33:37North Carolina's department

1:33:39transportation, specifically

1:33:40their um, um, their I, um, one

1:33:46of their micro transit

1:33:47departments approached us to be

1:33:49an implementing partner, uh,

1:33:51with a new initiative to

1:33:52provide an on demand, no cost

1:33:55micro transportation service on

1:33:56Fort Bragg. Um, this has been

1:33:58rapidly developing. We've

1:34:00already presented an initial

1:34:02packet of information to the

1:34:03city council transportation

1:34:05committee, but this is the

1:34:06first opportunity we've had

1:34:07earlier to bring it forward

1:34:08with, um, some details in the

1:34:10plan. The micro Transit program

1:34:13is intended to serve service

1:34:15members, their families and

1:34:16civilian employees that live

1:34:19and work on Fort Bragg. This is

1:34:20not a replacement for um on

1:34:23post bus service or a route

1:34:26based government shuttle

1:34:27service. Uh, the Fort Bragg has

1:34:29had in the past, but this is

1:34:31rather a no cost mobile

1:34:33application based rideshare

1:34:35program that provides

1:34:36transportation across the

1:34:37installation. NC Dot's

1:34:40Integrated Mobility Division

1:34:42initiated informal working

1:34:43group with Fort Bragg and the

1:34:45city this past July.

1:34:48Participants from Fast, the

1:34:49city Manager's Office, Fort

1:34:51Bragg Department of Public

1:34:52Works, NCDOT, and one of their

1:34:54private partners, a company

1:34:56called uh Venice Bruin, a VPP

1:34:59for short. VPP is a civil

1:35:02engineering consulting firm

1:35:04that has expertise in

1:35:05developing micro transit

1:35:07systems, and has worked with

1:35:08NCDOT and other areas across

1:35:11the state. In early September,

1:35:13that informal working group

1:35:15matured into a deliberate

1:35:16planning team with NCDOT in

1:35:18Fort Bragg at the lead, and we

1:35:20expanded that beyond fast and

1:35:21CMO and have incorporated

1:35:23representatives and planners

1:35:24from the City Budget and

1:35:25Evaluation Office, the

1:35:26Purchasing Office and City

1:35:27Attorney's Office. Um, as I

1:35:29mentioned, it's worth noting

1:35:30here that integrated mobility

1:35:32division at the state level and

1:35:33BHB have assisted other

1:35:35municipalities in North

1:35:36Carolina with these types of

1:35:37programs, specifically helping

1:35:39Charlotte, Wilson, Wilmington,

1:35:42Sanford and Raleigh wake area

1:35:43in the development of their

1:35:44programs. All different, but

1:35:46all very similar in how they

1:35:48function, how they work, and

1:35:49how they're tied to the broader

1:35:51metro systems. I will not die

1:35:55of too deeply into the detailed

1:35:57planning with Fort Bragg, but I

1:35:59do want to highlight a few

1:36:00provisions and some key focus

1:36:01areas that are going on with

1:36:02continued planning. As I

1:36:04mentioned, this is a fully

1:36:05funded program by Fort Bragg

1:36:07and the Department of War. They

1:36:09have an Exa, an

1:36:10inter-governmental service

1:36:11agreement with the North

1:36:13Carolina Department of

1:36:14Transportation, and federal

1:36:16funds were made available to

1:36:18NCDOT this past September. At

1:36:20the end of the federal FY 26

1:36:22fiscal year, NCDOT will

1:36:25function as an advisory team

1:36:27and pass through agency and

1:36:28provide fast and the City of

1:36:29Fayetteville the funding to

1:36:31develop, implement, fully

1:36:33execute, and evaluate this

1:36:34program. Those funds will be

1:36:36used for hiring staff for this

1:36:38program, including a full time

1:36:40mobility manager. There's still

1:36:42some analysis going on with

1:36:43NCDOT and VRB assisting us in

1:36:46the analysis. And as we

1:36:48continue planning, will

1:36:49determine what that team looks

1:36:50like. The positions, the number

1:36:52of vehicles and other core

1:36:53components. But all those

1:36:55resources will be provided by

1:36:57the funding that we're using

1:36:59federal dollars to to build and

1:37:01do this program. We are

1:37:03exploring both the potential

1:37:04need for and the options

1:37:06available to us through

1:37:08contracted partners. While

1:37:10we've moved away from this

1:37:11being a contracted service,

1:37:12much like some of our other

1:37:14agencies, like the Solid Waste

1:37:15Removal, we are focusing on

1:37:17identifying a partner that can

1:37:18provide the software. Both the

1:37:20mobile application and the

1:37:21program management tools that

1:37:23will not only meet our

1:37:24immediate needs, but will be

1:37:25responsive to us as we make

1:37:27changes, improve this service

1:37:29and pivot during the

1:37:30implementation phase in what

1:37:32will be 1 or 2 soft launches

1:37:34next year. Last week, Director

1:37:36Neill, member for staff, myself

1:37:39and the Deputy director of Fort

1:37:40Bragg's DPW visited Fort Carson

1:37:43in the city of fountain,

1:37:44Colorado, to look at their

1:37:46program, to talk with their

1:37:47team and to bring back bring

1:37:49back both lessons learned and

1:37:51lessons observed from their

1:37:53first five months of operations

1:37:55there. At the end of their

1:37:56fifth month of their program

1:37:57being live. That visit and the

1:37:59City of Fountain's

1:38:00recommendations and willingness

1:38:02to share what they've learned

1:38:03and how they've made this

1:38:04happen are informing where we

1:38:06go from here. I also mentioned

1:38:08that Fort Bragg's with NCDOT

1:38:10was formalized last month

1:38:12because of their agreement with

1:38:13NCDOT. There's not a need to

1:38:15establish an exit directly with

1:38:17Fort Bragg for this program.

1:38:19However, we will be drafting an

1:38:20agreement that outlines the

1:38:22roles and responsibilities of

1:38:23all three organizations to

1:38:26include Fort Bragg DPW as the

1:38:28customer. For this, the

1:38:29service, and also fast as the

1:38:31implementing public partner.

1:38:32The final thing I want to

1:38:33highlight here is that the

1:38:34federal funding that was

1:38:35provided to the state in FY 26

1:38:39is there to cover the initial

1:38:40operating costs, including the

1:38:42seed costs of a service we're

1:38:43going to do in FY 27. Um, is

1:38:47going to cover the funding

1:38:48allocated, associated with this

1:38:50program and building our

1:38:51initial capacity. The program

1:38:53is also funded in FY 27 so

1:38:56fast. And Fort Bragg will

1:38:57monitor the cost of operation

1:38:59um, through the creation of the

1:39:00program in early

1:39:01implementation. And resources

1:39:04will already be available for

1:39:05us to continue modifying and

1:39:06making changes, including

1:39:08addressing the real cost of

1:39:09service throughout calendar

1:39:11year 2027. Uh, Fort Bragg will

1:39:15be the Third Army installation

1:39:17in the US to implement a micro

1:39:19transit program like this. On

1:39:20their installation, Fort Hood

1:39:23recently implemented a program

1:39:25through a partnership with

1:39:26neighboring Hill County, Texas.

1:39:27And as I mentioned, Fort Carson

1:39:29program is about five months in

1:39:30through services provided by

1:39:31the city of fountain, which is

1:39:33their neighboring public

1:39:34partner. The city's

1:39:35relationship with Fort Bragg,

1:39:37including our partnership as a

1:39:38service providers through the

1:39:40existing Intergovernmental

1:39:41Service agreements with the

1:39:43garrison for solid waste

1:39:44removal on the installation and

1:39:46for facility maintenance and

1:39:47custodial services of the

1:39:48Airborne Special Operations

1:39:49Museum, makes us their choice

1:39:51partner for this program, and

1:39:53similar programs like this.

1:39:54Moving forward. To shift gears

1:39:56a second, I'd be remiss if I

1:39:58did not mention another

1:39:59component of this program. Um,

1:40:02as we saw in Fort Carson,

1:40:03there's a degree of social

1:40:04capital that has been created

1:40:07by having this ride share

1:40:08program on the installation.

1:40:10Um, and it comes from services

1:40:11like this where it kind of

1:40:12forces interaction between

1:40:14service members, the public,

1:40:16people that work on the

1:40:17installation. And by social

1:40:19capital, I mean the value

1:40:20derived from the positive human

1:40:21connections, the relationships,

1:40:23the networks and the shared

1:40:24values, um, that help

1:40:26individuals and groups achieve

1:40:27goals, social capital exists

1:40:29even in very short micro

1:40:32engagements, like riding in a

1:40:33van with other soldiers that

1:40:35you may not come in contact

1:40:36with on your day to day

1:40:37business, or talking with the

1:40:39same driver over a period of

1:40:40weeks or months while using a

1:40:41service like this. Soldier's

1:40:43family members living on an

1:40:44installation can find

1:40:45themselves isolated for a lot

1:40:47of reasons. These on demand

1:40:49rideshare programs immediately

1:40:51create an opportunity for

1:40:52people to get them out of their

1:40:53residence. Whether it's a

1:40:54house, an apartment, or a

1:40:55barracks area, and allow them

1:40:57to engage with others. And Fort

1:40:59Carson is living proof of that,

1:41:01say, intangible benefit of

1:41:02having a program like this. And

1:41:04the research tells us that high

1:41:05levels of social capital

1:41:07correlate with lower crime

1:41:08rates, better public health,

1:41:09active civic engagement, and

1:41:10resilient communities. And so

1:41:12Fort Bragg, like Fort Hood and

1:41:14Fort Carson, are looking at

1:41:15this through that lens, as well

1:41:16as improving the quality of

1:41:18life for people that live and

1:41:19work on Fort Bragg, and the

1:41:20idea that this micro transit

1:41:22program will become a daily

1:41:23part of life on the

1:41:25installation, rideshare

1:41:26programs have a profound dual

1:41:27sided impact on social

1:41:29isolation, acting as a bridge

1:41:30to communities for passengers.

1:41:32And so making this on demand

1:41:34rideshare program available.

1:41:35Soldiers and everyone on the

1:41:37installation makes places and

1:41:39people accessible for many

1:41:40residents who are, or maybe

1:41:42physically and emotionally

1:41:43isolated, um, soldiers on post

1:41:46have had interactions with

1:41:47drivers and passengers in both

1:41:49existing programs in Colorado

1:41:51and in Texas, and it is very

1:41:52much a component of the

1:41:54antidote to routine daily

1:41:56loneliness. Um, and I bring

1:41:58that up because I think that

1:41:59it's a component of this

1:42:01program that's not going to

1:42:02show up on a program plan or in

1:42:03a Gantt chart for the how we

1:42:05get there from here. Um, but

1:42:06that's probably one of the

1:42:07leading takeaways we have from

1:42:09visiting Fort Carson. And that

1:42:10we understand is the takeaway

1:42:12that the fountain, Colorado

1:42:13folks had in their initial

1:42:14visit with the with Hill

1:42:16County's program in Fort Hood a

1:42:18couple of months ago. So having

1:42:20said that, at this time, I'm

1:42:22requesting that the city

1:42:23council grant, the city manager

1:42:24and staff permission to take

1:42:26two next steps in our program.

1:42:28First is to coordinate with

1:42:29Fort Bragg and NCDOT to develop

1:42:32an agreement for this program.

1:42:34Now, I want to point out that

1:42:36we have proposed an

1:42:37intergovernmental agreement,

1:42:39not an interlocal agreement,

1:42:41because this will end up having

1:42:42a local municipal, a state and

1:42:44a federal partner in it. And

1:42:46also because the IGS is already

1:42:48in place between Fort Bragg and

1:42:50the state at this time. The

1:42:52second thing is to request that

1:42:54we be permitted to formally

1:42:56apply to NCDOT. Um, the

1:42:58Integral Mobility Division for

1:43:00the funding, and that's both to

1:43:02establish the routine process

1:43:03for which operations and fast

1:43:05will be funded at a

1:43:06reimbursement plus, uh,

1:43:08process, something like that.

1:43:10Um, but it's also going to

1:43:11include the startup fees, the

1:43:13seed fees that we need in order

1:43:14to, um, put the program

1:43:16together, acquire the vehicles,

1:43:18the software, hire the people,

1:43:20and to put that in place in

1:43:21order to meet the timeline that

1:43:23Fort Bragg has set for us in

1:43:24the new calendar year. Our

1:43:26intent is to return in January

1:43:28of next year to provide an

1:43:30update on the program and the

1:43:32final implementation timeline

1:43:33of what this will look like in

1:43:35the new calendar year. We'll

1:43:36also come back and request the

1:43:38City manager be permitted to

1:43:39enter an agreement with Fort

1:43:40Bragg and NCDOT and if needed

1:43:43and as necessary, if we need

1:43:46to, will request the City

1:43:47Manager be allowed to enter an

1:43:48agreement with a private

1:43:49partner. If that's a

1:43:50determination we make regarding

1:43:52the software, the application

1:43:54and the platform. So with that,

1:43:56I will pause for any questions.

1:43:58And if they are transportation

1:44:00program specific, director

1:44:02Neil's here to back me up on

1:44:03those as well.

1:44:07All right. Uh, Councilmember

1:44:09McMillan.

1:44:09Want to start with thanks,

1:44:12Adam. Thank you, Director Neil.

1:44:14Uh, excited about this from

1:44:15from the first time I heard

1:44:16about our efforts to reach out

1:44:18to Fort Bragg and see how we

1:44:20can collaborate. Um, only duty

1:44:22station. I can remember having

1:44:24reliable transportation, uh, to

1:44:27and from post was Camp Casey,

1:44:28Korea. And that was more about

1:44:31enforcement of a curfew, I

1:44:32think, until I did, uh, than

1:44:33anything else. So this it's

1:44:35refreshing to hear even that,

1:44:36uh, Fort Carson has a, uh, has

1:44:39a program that's running

1:44:41already. Uh, also, I don't

1:44:44think a lot of people realize.

1:44:45I didn't realize until I came

1:44:46on council. We actually

1:44:47represent folks to live on Fort

1:44:50Bragg. At least three of us,

1:44:51uh, represent people that live

1:44:53on post. Um, and I thought

1:44:56about this. Not just, uh, young

1:44:58single Joes going back and

1:44:59forth from Fort Bragg to

1:45:00downtown, but for people that

1:45:02live in housing areas to come

1:45:04and take advantage of, of a

1:45:06ride to get essential services

1:45:08like social social services,

1:45:10building, um, so I had two

1:45:12questions. One, is there going

1:45:14to be an effort to connect with

1:45:17people who live in the housing

1:45:19areas, people who live on post?

1:45:21And then the second question

1:45:23was, I don't know if I'm mixing

1:45:25things up. So because I've

1:45:26heard so many great programs

1:45:27and initiatives, uh, from, from

1:45:30our transportation, is this

1:45:32connected to the the rides to

1:45:34and from the airport, or is

1:45:36that a separate initiative?

1:45:38Because I'm excited about that.

1:45:39To not being stranded, uh, at

1:45:42Fayetteville Airport as as

1:45:43active duty. Uh, so those are

1:45:45my two questions. But overall,

1:45:47thanks and support to the

1:45:48program.

1:45:49No, thank you very, very much

1:45:50for the question. Councilmember

1:45:52McMillan. Um, so to your first

1:45:53question about the housing

1:45:54areas, this will support the

1:45:56housing areas on Fort Bragg.

1:45:58One of the lessons learned, not

1:46:00just that these three

1:46:01installations that either have

1:46:02or exploring these programs is

1:46:05how inadequate the majority of

1:46:08the on installation

1:46:09transportation programs have

1:46:11been for very long time. Um, to

1:46:13your point about the housing

1:46:14areas, even the shuttle that

1:46:16exists on Fort Bragg right now,

1:46:17it runs a prescribed route. Um,

1:46:20it does hit a lot of, um, you

1:46:22know, installation essential

1:46:24facilities, places like Womack,

1:46:25places like Soldier Sports

1:46:27Center. It hits the mini malls

1:46:28and the PP. But that that bus

1:46:30route doesn't run into the

1:46:31neighborhoods. And so there are

1:46:33always kind of a missing piece

1:46:35on getting from point A to

1:46:36point B, especially in this

1:46:37sort of era of on demand kind

1:46:39of mobile based service. The

1:46:41intent is, um, DPW has done an

1:46:43initial map of the installation

1:46:45that outlines what the service

1:46:46area will be. We're looking at

1:46:49that as, um, I'll say, an

1:46:52interim capability. Plus, we're

1:46:54probably going to start with

1:46:55something that's a little bit

1:46:56more focused, work out the

1:46:59buck. So the idea of, um,

1:47:01starting with two central

1:47:02locations, one at the new

1:47:04campus style dining facility

1:47:05and one that's Womack, and that

1:47:08the initial limited service,

1:47:09really a soft launch would be

1:47:11limited to those two locations,

1:47:13either transportation to or

1:47:15transportation from. But the

1:47:17significant change is going to

1:47:18be a family member or a

1:47:20dependent that lives on

1:47:22installation housing in a

1:47:23family that has one vehicle

1:47:25will have the ability to get a

1:47:27ride, come to them and take

1:47:28them where they need to go.

1:47:30That's completely different

1:47:31than what they have right now.

1:47:33Um, and after that soft launch

1:47:35is done, regardless of what

1:47:37limited service area it has,

1:47:39will rapidly move to servicing

1:47:41the entire area and the

1:47:44majority of the cantonment area

1:47:46to include those housing areas

1:47:47is going to be provided

1:47:48service. Um, and so the idea

1:47:50that someone who's living in

1:47:52either housing or in transient

1:47:55lodging can get an on demand

1:47:57ride share from that location

1:47:59to where they need to be,

1:48:01either based on a time they

1:48:02need to be there or based on

1:48:05availability. That's that's how

1:48:07they've implemented this in the

1:48:08past, and that's how we're

1:48:08looking at doing it now. So

1:48:10it's a long way of saying, yes,

1:48:11the housing areas will be

1:48:13supported. Um, but frankly, I

1:48:14think it's it's more than that.

1:48:16It's it's changing a way of

1:48:17life for a significant number

1:48:20of people who live and work on

1:48:21the installation, because it's

1:48:23just not there for them. Now.

1:48:24Um, the second question, I

1:48:26won't get too far ahead of

1:48:27Director Neil behind me. The

1:48:29short answer is not right away.

1:48:33Um, one of the things that I

1:48:35mean, this is being funded by

1:48:36the Army to provide

1:48:37transportation on the

1:48:38installation. So that's our

1:48:40starting, our starting block,

1:48:42Fort Carson and Fountain have a

1:48:45unique, um, situation where the

1:48:49city of fountain does not

1:48:50manage municipal transit. Their

1:48:52neighboring municipality,

1:48:53Colorado Springs, does. And so

1:48:55they don't have a connection to

1:48:56make off the installation. What

1:48:58they had done as an interim is

1:49:00create two off installation

1:49:02virtual bus stops that link to

1:49:05key parts of the of the

1:49:06community. One is that metro

1:49:09program that again, they don't

1:49:10operate. The other was a

1:49:12university because of its

1:49:13proximity to Fort Carson. There

1:49:15is going to be a natural

1:49:17connection between this on

1:49:18installation rideshare program

1:49:20and the expansion of public

1:49:22city services. I mean, we

1:49:23already have fast buses that

1:49:25that provide service to Fort

1:49:27Bragg that will mature. But I

1:49:30don't know that we know what

1:49:31will inform which quite yet.

1:49:35Um, but in terms of vision,

1:49:36that is the vision is that

1:49:37these programs, although

1:49:39separate right now, have the

1:49:41potential to become one program

1:49:44with lots of capability in it.

1:49:46But there's a lot of reasons

1:49:47why we're going to keep it a

1:49:48bit compartmentalized. One

1:49:51reason is because this is not

1:49:53FTA driven and it can't be

1:49:55managed. And and funded the

1:49:58same way that the bulk of the

1:50:01transportation programs are. So

1:50:03for now, it's a separate

1:50:04project. But Fort Bragg's

1:50:07interest is service to the, um,

1:50:09to the airport. Um, and so I

1:50:11think that we're we have a

1:50:12roadmap to get there. The first

1:50:15year of this program will most

1:50:17likely be limited to the

1:50:18installation, but we will

1:50:19figure out what opportunities

1:50:20are there to connect them to

1:50:22the broader transportation

1:50:23network in the region. Thank

1:50:25you. Thanks. I'll turn to

1:50:28Director Neal in case I

1:50:29misspoke or miss something.

1:50:32Good afternoon, Mayor and

1:50:33Council. Thank you,

1:50:34Councilmember McMillan, for

1:50:35your question. I'll just

1:50:37expound a little bit on what

1:50:38Adam said. Yes, we are going to

1:50:39the airport, so we will use

1:50:40this as a way to feed service

1:50:43to fast our, um, service and

1:50:46then expand to the airport,

1:50:47expand to West Fayetteville and

1:50:49all of those things. Again,

1:50:50we're just one year away from

1:50:51getting new buses, and we can

1:50:53talk about all the wonderful

1:50:54things that we're going to do

1:50:55to improve and expand our

1:50:57transit service then. But right

1:50:59now, we're just going to stay

1:51:00in the cantonment area. Today

1:51:02or wants to start in the spring

1:51:04of next year. But at some

1:51:06point, yes, sir, we will

1:51:07utilize this to feed to fast

1:51:10express routes. Going to the

1:51:11airport. Yes, sir.

1:51:12Thank you.

1:51:14All right. Mayor Pro Tem, you

1:51:15forgot the pitch.

1:51:16No.

1:51:17I was waiting till the end.

1:51:19It's not the end yet. It's

1:51:20tiffin. But, Adam. Uh, great

1:51:23presentation. Uh, I'm pretty

1:51:25sure General Ryan and General

1:51:27Anderson are pleased about the

1:51:28collaboration that we're doing

1:51:30to maintain and serve the

1:51:31soldiers. Travel on base. Uh, a

1:51:33lot of people may not know, but

1:51:35they had some problems with

1:51:36their barracks, and they closed

1:51:37a lot. And they're building a

1:51:38lot right now. But what I want

1:51:40you to focus on. You said DPW

1:51:42was during the survey. I think

1:51:44it's imperative that we look at

1:51:46the transit facility, that we

1:51:48look at. So single soldiers who

1:51:49are living in the barracks, and

1:51:51we look at the soldier center,

1:51:54uh, I don't know if anybody is

1:51:56prepared on what Fort Bragg has

1:51:58been doing with their campus

1:52:00dining. Me being retired, food

1:52:02service with the military. Now

1:52:04they have upgraded. Now they

1:52:05have campus dining where they

1:52:06have a certain amount of

1:52:08dollars on a card, where you

1:52:09can go into a facility and get

1:52:11anything that you want, and it

1:52:13is going to revise the way

1:52:17soldiers eat, not just on this

1:52:19military installation, but I

1:52:21think they have it at Fort Hood

1:52:22and Fort Lewis also. So it's

1:52:24imperative that you have

1:52:25soldiers who are living in

1:52:27single soldiers barracks that

1:52:29have to walk to this facility.

1:52:31Hopefully, this will give them

1:52:32an opportunity to be able to

1:52:33ride to this facility. Uh, it's

1:52:35a great program. I'm encouraged

1:52:37about it and keep up the good

1:52:38work.

1:52:39Thank you sir.

1:52:39Thank you, Mr. Mayor.

1:52:40All right, all right. Um, so

1:52:44staff's asked. Tonight is for

1:52:46the city council to authorize

1:52:47the city manager draft an

1:52:48agreement between Fort Bragg,

1:52:50and I got it. All right.

1:52:52City council with the city's

1:52:53role in providing micro grant

1:52:55services on Fort Bragg and

1:52:57authorize the city manager to

1:52:58adopt an agreement with the

1:52:59aid, uh, United States Garrison

1:53:03Fort Bragg and NC dot for the

1:53:04program. And coordinate with NC

1:53:07dot IMD for federal funding

1:53:08through the Micro Transit

1:53:09Finance Program.

1:53:11All right. Motion by Mayor Pro

1:53:12Tem, seconded by Ferguson. Uh,

1:53:14discussion. All right. Council,

1:53:16I look to you for your votes.

1:53:18Great job.

1:53:19Adam.

1:53:20Yep. And Miss Tiffany, you come

1:53:21up here with a pitch. Yeah.

1:53:24Tell us about transit cousins.

1:53:26Yeah. Just want to remind

1:53:28everybody to come ride with us.

1:53:29We're going places. All right.

1:53:31All right. Thank you all. Good

1:53:32job. Thank you. Uh. All right.

1:53:38All right. 9.02 uh,

1:53:41Councilmember Ferguson, you,

1:53:43um, this item you wanted to

1:53:44consider tabling? Yes, sir.

1:53:46Okay. You want to make that in

1:53:47the form of a motion? No.

1:53:49Yes, sir. I move that we, uh,

1:53:52table this to another, um,

1:53:56another council meeting.

1:53:57To a meeting or work session

1:53:58or. What did you have us? One.

1:54:01We can, uh, yeah, we can send

1:54:04it to a work session. Okay.

1:54:06Next available work session

1:54:08with.

1:54:08Are we sending it to November's

1:54:10work session.

1:54:11Or. Seems kind of crowded,

1:54:12doesn't it?

1:54:15December.

1:54:16Jan, December is a special

1:54:18meeting.

1:54:19Yeah, I know.

1:54:20We can do that.

1:54:20You said.

1:54:21December, okay.

1:54:22Yes, sir.

1:54:22All right. Do you.

1:54:24Want to clarify that?

1:54:26So, um, for clarification, just

1:54:28want to move that to.

1:54:31Um. Table it, table it to the

1:54:37December.

1:54:38Uh, seventh meeting. Special

1:54:41meeting.

1:54:44Okay. All right. There's a

1:54:45motion by Councilmember

1:54:47Ferguson. Is there a second?

1:54:53Yes, second. But. Oh. McMillan.

1:54:56Okay. All right. Discussion.

1:54:59All right. I'll tell you before

1:55:00you vote. All right. The voting

1:55:09oppose Councilmember Hondros.

1:55:11All right, so we'll look for

1:55:13that at the December 6th

1:55:17special meeting. All right.

1:55:209.0, uh, three dot Newton.

1:55:33Last Monday, the city council

1:55:36met and in a motion, directed

1:55:38the city attorney to get with

1:55:40attorney Tosco to make the

1:55:42revisions and bring back the

1:55:44council for approval or

1:55:45disapproval at the next council

1:55:46meeting that is published on

1:55:48Wednesday, the item that will

1:55:49be presenting this evening. I'm

1:55:51Doctor Newton, Development

1:55:53Services. And because most

1:55:55items dealing with the chapter

1:55:5730 or the Unified Development

1:55:59Ordinance originate from our

1:56:00department, we were tasked with

1:56:02putting together the c cam

1:56:03that's now being presented. In

1:56:05a few minutes, you'll be

1:56:06hearing from Jennifer Baptist

1:56:09and or Chester Green dealing

1:56:11with the technical aspects of

1:56:12it. And as you saw last Monday,

1:56:15outside counsel Nick Tosco is

1:56:17also here to go over any of the

1:56:19legal items in that meeting,

1:56:22you had four areas that were

1:56:24addressed. I'm going to try to

1:56:25not, uh, refresh or regurgitate

1:56:29any of those items except to

1:56:31point out that those dealt with

1:56:33four areas that you're going to

1:56:35hear a little bit from me, and

1:56:36then you'll hear it in the

1:56:37PowerPoint from Chester Green.

1:56:40The first addressed unlisted

1:56:43uses, uh, requiring a path. And

1:56:45the other three address changes

1:56:47due to the state statutes

1:56:49regarding down zoning. What you

1:56:55have in your packet of

1:56:57information is you have one

1:56:59draft ordinance that covers all

1:57:02four of these items. There's an

1:57:05additional alternative

1:57:07ordinance that folds in a

1:57:09discussed item of conditional

1:57:11zoning, rather than permitted

1:57:12by right zoning. The first item

1:57:17that was mentioned was the need

1:57:18to have the current zoning

1:57:21include a provision that allows

1:57:23unlisted uses into compliance

1:57:25based off of the bird and

1:57:27Franklin County case.

1:57:29Practically what that means.

1:57:31And you see in your ordinance

1:57:32is eliminating the one sentence

1:57:34that we have been using to

1:57:37prohibit hyperscale data

1:57:38centers, as they're not

1:57:40substantially similar to any

1:57:43existing use. That was, we were

1:57:46told last week that had to be

1:57:48changed, adjusted. And that's

1:57:51the one item that you're seeing

1:57:52of the for the next three deal

1:57:55with down zoning. The second

1:57:56one was that we had to allow

1:57:58density development or a form

1:58:00of down zoning and addressing

1:58:02the new state statute, which is

1:58:05one 6601 D one. School of

1:58:11government weighed in on this

1:58:13issue on September 16th. They

1:58:18published in their coats Canon

1:58:20Law blog entitled Data Centers

1:58:23and Zoning in North Carolina,

1:58:26in that they provided guidance

1:58:30that essentially talked about

1:58:31what had to be done, what they

1:58:33suggest should be done,

1:58:35including that the General

1:58:36Assembly really needs to look

1:58:38at the down zoning to figure

1:58:40out how that will be adjusted

1:58:43or changed. That's statutory

1:58:46law. They also addressed court

1:58:48cases as case law. And then you

1:58:51heard last week from attorney

1:58:53Tosco on common law and how the

1:58:55Lenience towards activities

1:58:58between property rights and

1:59:00community rights tend to move

1:59:01toward the property owner.

1:59:05Those two items tied to

1:59:08unlisted uses and the first

1:59:10part of zoning has led to this

1:59:12blend that we now have in

1:59:14place, where data centers are

1:59:16identified within the use

1:59:18standards that you have in that

1:59:20ordinance. Uh, and folds it

1:59:24into the warehouse storage with

1:59:26added text to that definition.

1:59:31That's why we have the proposed

1:59:33changes in the definition

1:59:35section. There are three

1:59:38definitions that are in there.

1:59:41Two of them are new and one has

1:59:43been amended. The warehouse

1:59:45storage component has included.

1:59:48And you see that in that

1:59:49ordinance that's in front of

1:59:50you. It has included the

1:59:53language that now includes the

1:59:55words computer servers, network

1:59:58devices, mechanical, electrical

2:00:00infrastructure for processing,

2:00:02storing and transmitting

2:00:04digital information. And then

2:00:06it has a last sentence that

2:00:08says such use includes a data

2:00:10storage facility or a data

2:00:11center. As further defined in

2:00:13this ordinance. Data storage

2:00:17facility, or data center is

2:00:19also added as a definition in

2:00:22that ordinance, and the third

2:00:24definition is a new one, and

2:00:27that is the utility impact

2:00:28statement. That's a very

2:00:30significant definition that's

2:00:32been added, put in here to deal

2:00:34with some of the items that

2:00:35we're trying to address before

2:00:38it provides essentially that

2:00:41without the utility providers

2:00:44guaranteeing capacity and the

2:00:46ability to serve, applications

2:00:50are incomplete and won't move

2:00:51forward. The third item that

2:00:56you heard from the attorneys

2:00:59last week also ties to this

2:01:01down zoning, and that was that,

2:01:05um, the council needed to

2:01:06provide a, uh, straight by

2:01:08right with standards, uh,

2:01:12document and or change the way

2:01:16that we're handling that,

2:01:17potentially with conditional

2:01:19zoning. The changes in that

2:01:22table, the use table are in

2:01:26four districts. Two of those

2:01:29are city zoning districts of

2:01:33Lee and I. Some of those have

2:01:37zones have been similarly in

2:01:39place for 60 plus years with

2:01:42different names. The other two

2:01:44business Park and plan

2:01:46development EC or employment

2:01:48center. Our property owner

2:01:51initiated and require large set

2:01:54of items to be worked out, and

2:01:56those are ones that the

2:01:57property owner initiates

2:02:00within. And by working through

2:02:02those revisions, task by the

2:02:05council for us to work through

2:02:06with is the existing use

2:02:08standards that already exist

2:02:10for warehouse include a 500

2:02:13foot separation from schools,

2:02:15child residential districts.

2:02:18There are some other things

2:02:19that they include direct access

2:02:21onto an arterial or major

2:02:22collector street. And there's

2:02:24some more information that

2:02:25you'll see in the slide

2:02:26presentation. Additionally,

2:02:29there were standards that were

2:02:30put in place for data centers

2:02:32proposing to be established

2:02:34within the warehouse storage,

2:02:36and those are identified as use

2:02:38specific standards, which are

2:02:41ordinance provides provision

2:02:42for that create acoustical

2:02:46compliance memorandum. And then

2:02:49the Utility impact statement.

2:02:51There's other items that you'll

2:02:52see on that. And then we have

2:02:54the second option of

2:02:55conditional zoning. Several of

2:02:56you last week continue to ask

2:02:58about the idea of is there not

2:03:00another way that this can be

2:03:01handled instead of by right. We

2:03:03have put that in as an

2:03:05alternative for you to

2:03:06consider. And the fourth item

2:03:09that you have that you heard

2:03:10from the attorneys was we also

2:03:13had to create a nonconformity

2:03:16section that we can't create

2:03:18nonconformity. And that has

2:03:20been essentially worked by the

2:03:21attorneys in what they call the

2:03:23savings clause that says if any

2:03:25parts declared invalid, then

2:03:27the rest remains. You'll see

2:03:29that in the ordinances that are

2:03:31in front of you and specific

2:03:34language,

2:03:35That no provision is designed

2:03:36to create nonconformity, and if

2:03:39it's determined by a court

2:03:40later, then again, that

2:03:42severability provision kicks

2:03:44that part out. In practice,

2:03:47this sets up the idea of

2:03:48conditional zoning, ensuring

2:03:50the property owner agrees to

2:03:51the standards conditions for

2:03:53the. The cecum and the

2:03:55PowerPoint presentation from

2:03:58the Planning and Zoning

2:03:59Division of Development

2:04:01Services. As the one department

2:04:03that most often handles items

2:04:05to chapter 30 is what you have

2:04:08in front of you. What I've

2:04:09shared the manager's office,

2:04:11attorney's office, outside

2:04:12legal counsel, development

2:04:14services all collaborated in

2:04:15the packet presented this

2:04:17evening. We've attempted to

2:04:18meet and exceed the directives

2:04:20of the City Council given to us

2:04:21last week. Jennifer Baptiste is

2:04:25the planning and zoning manager,

2:04:27and Chester Green is a senior

2:04:29planner. Who is most involved

2:04:31in all new developments,

2:04:33needing various approvals are

2:04:35here to present a very brief

2:04:37PowerPoint, much of which

2:04:38you've just heard from me. And

2:04:40finally, Nick Tosco, outside

2:04:42counsel, is here to address

2:04:43ordinances, statutes and other

2:04:45legal issues from the podium.

2:04:47Not not to those of us who

2:04:49aren't attorneys. Mr. green.

2:05:14Good evening. Um, this is, as

2:05:17already talked about, um, to

2:05:202601 data storage facilities. I

2:05:23mean, storage facilities, data

2:05:24centers. Um, Doctor Newton has

2:05:27already gone through the

2:05:27overview of everything that got

2:05:30us to this point. Um. This is

2:05:35being brought back as requested.

2:05:38Um, in the last council

2:05:39meeting. Um, um, he talked

2:05:42about the four areas that it

2:05:45addresses. Um, so I won't go

2:05:47into that again. Um, here's the

2:05:49first ordinance he was talking

2:05:50about for unlisted uses. Um, it

2:05:53basically just removes that

2:05:54last sentence that prohibits

2:05:57uses that are unlisted, as

2:05:59recommended by outside counsel.

2:06:04Um, these are the definitions

2:06:06that were discussed. Um, the

2:06:08first one is the warehouse

2:06:09storage with the addition of

2:06:11data center facilities into

2:06:13that definition. Um, the second

2:06:15definition is defining what a

2:06:17data storage facility is, what

2:06:19a data center is. Um, all of

2:06:21the normal stuff that how they

2:06:25function, what they store. Um,

2:06:29the last definition is that

2:06:31utility impact statement for

2:06:33data centers. Um, it provides.

2:06:40Um, for verification from the

2:06:43utilities to be submitted to

2:06:45the city. Um, that include

2:06:48anticipated water consumption,

2:06:50electric peak demand. Um, and

2:06:54any backup generators on site

2:06:56fuel types, volumes, energy

2:06:58storage stuff. We'll all have

2:06:59to be submitted in a in a

2:07:02utility impact statement as

2:07:03part of the approval process.

2:07:09Um, these are the existing

2:07:10already in the ordinance. Use

2:07:11specific standards for

2:07:13warehouse storage. So all of

2:07:15these will apply to the data

2:07:17centers. Um, which is the 500

2:07:19foot separation of many

2:07:20residential district school

2:07:22childcare. Um, talks about

2:07:24where outdoor storage can be,

2:07:26how it has to be screened,

2:07:28assures proper functionality

2:07:30for vehicle stacking

2:07:32circulation, and that the use,

2:07:35as talked about, would need to

2:07:36be accessed on an arterial or

2:07:37major collector street. In

2:07:40addition to those use specific

2:07:42standards, they'll be added

2:07:44additional use specific

2:07:45standards for data centers. Um,

2:07:48the first one, um, is noise

2:07:52standards requiring that

2:07:55acoustical compliance

2:07:56memorandum and a post

2:07:57construction sound

2:07:59verification. Um, this will

2:08:03have to be submitted as part of

2:08:05the overall approval. Um, the

2:08:08utility impact statement, as

2:08:09already discussed, will have to

2:08:10be submitted and required. Um,

2:08:14it also requires a 24 hour on

2:08:17site contact. Um, information

2:08:19will be provided for any

2:08:21operational complaints, and it

2:08:24requires it to be posted at the

2:08:26gate of the facility. And then

2:08:28it also requires that it meets

2:08:30current lighting standards and

2:08:31any state and federal air

2:08:32quality requirements. Um, as

2:08:38was discussed, there is a

2:08:39second ordinance in there,

2:08:41which includes everything that

2:08:42was already talked about. Um,

2:08:45but also is a conditional

2:08:48rezoning requirement to the use

2:08:50table and the into the use

2:08:52specific standards that

2:08:53requires that a storage

2:08:55facility that contains a data

2:08:56center located in the BPL. All

2:09:00the districts that um, that

2:09:02storage facilities are allowed

2:09:04in would have to go through a

2:09:06conditional rezoning approval

2:09:08in accordance with the section.

2:09:13Um.

2:09:14So here are the options for

2:09:17city council. You can adopt the

2:09:18amendment as proposed to align

2:09:20with the motion of October

2:09:2119th, 2026 by City Council.

2:09:24Adoption of the revised

2:09:26amendment, which includes the

2:09:27conditional zoning, deny the

2:09:29amendment or remand the

2:09:30amendment back to the Planning

2:09:32Commission for further

2:09:33consideration. Um city staff

2:09:35and outside counsel recommends

2:09:37that City Council move to adopt

2:09:38the revised amendment that

2:09:40provides for conditional zoning

2:09:41applications for warehouse

2:09:43storage use as data centers,

2:09:44and for finds that proposed

2:09:46amendment is consistent with

2:09:47the adopted Comprehensive.

2:09:48Plan.

2:09:50Um, okay.

2:09:53All right. Thank you. All

2:09:54right. I did have a couple of

2:09:55questions. Uh, Mayor pro Tem

2:09:57and Councilmember Haire.

2:09:59Thank you, Mr. Chester. I have

2:10:02quite a few questions, but I

2:10:03don't know who to direct them

2:10:04to because I want to clear up a

2:10:06little bit of ambiguity. Uh,

2:10:08when it comes to what we're

2:10:10trying to do here today with

2:10:11these text amendments, my first

2:10:13question, I think, is a simple

2:10:15question. How often can you

2:10:17update text amendments to an

2:10:18ordinance? Doctor Newton.

2:10:23My.

2:10:25When there's a need to change a

2:10:27text amendment, it can be done.

2:10:29The the big debate right now

2:10:30deals with down zoning. And if

2:10:33you put something in place and

2:10:35you remove, then have you

2:10:38effectively violated what the

2:10:40state has put in for no down

2:10:43zoning without individual

2:10:44property owners agreeing in

2:10:46writing to have that in place?

2:10:48That's what I wanted to hear.

2:10:49And in order for us to get

2:10:51where we're going, we need to

2:10:52update our text amendments as

2:10:54we go along and as AI

2:10:57progresses, we need to make

2:10:59changes to our text amendments.

2:11:01That is doable all the time.

2:11:03Month by month. Meeting by

2:11:05meeting.

2:11:05Correct regularly, we should be

2:11:08looking at text amendments to

2:11:10make sure that we are staying

2:11:11current in the trends. Uh, and

2:11:13and and protecting the future.

2:11:15That component is a is a

2:11:17critical one that we're trying

2:11:18to work through and balance in

2:11:19terms of what you have in

2:11:20place. Um, now versus what has

2:11:23been proposed, what you heard

2:11:24from the attorneys and council

2:11:26and the outside counsel to do.

2:11:28Yeah.

2:11:29Now is Mr. Tosco came and gave

2:11:32us a briefing last week and

2:11:34recommended that we put this

2:11:36into data centers, into the

2:11:39warehouse, storage, zoning.

2:11:42Why? Let me rephrase that. The

2:11:45question has been asked. Why

2:11:46not? Hi. Is it because you have

2:11:48to do a conditional rezoning

2:11:50when you put it in high?

2:11:53We I will have the attorney

2:11:55answer that. Let me give you it

2:11:56in lay terms. We had to come up

2:12:00with a use, and then we had to

2:12:03look at the use table and

2:12:05identify what that use. Um,

2:12:08what fits. And with those

2:12:10changes to the definition that

2:12:12you saw in the, in the industry

2:12:15and the warehouse, it fits at

2:12:17that location. Then you have to

2:12:20look in what zones is that use

2:12:22permitted. That's why you see

2:12:25the ally and the high. Now the

2:12:27component, the second half of

2:12:29that question was the

2:12:30conditional zoning. The

2:12:34conditional zoning requires

2:12:36them to meet a whole bunch of

2:12:37standards and come back to City

2:12:40Council for final action and

2:12:43discussion of what the

2:12:44reasonable conditions are for a

2:12:47use to fit at that location,

2:12:49just because it's in a zone

2:12:51doesn't mean they have a

2:12:52guarantee that's different than

2:12:54what was being looked at

2:12:55before. With a special use

2:12:57permit. That said, as long as

2:12:58you meet the standards, um, and

2:13:02those standards were defined,

2:13:03quasi judicially. In other

2:13:06words, you get to decide based

2:13:08off of established standards,

2:13:09as if the court then they were

2:13:12guaranteed in conditional use

2:13:15isn't doesn't work that way.

2:13:16They don't meet the conditions

2:13:18that would make it reasonable

2:13:19to be in. It is an

2:13:21administrative decision. You

2:13:23make your determination as you

2:13:24have straight reasonings and

2:13:26others like that. I'll have the

2:13:28attorney answer that in the

2:13:29legal phrase, but I hope that

2:13:30answers it.

2:13:31It does. Don't go too far,

2:13:36doctor. I'm going to ask you

2:13:37two more questions before I'm

2:13:38finished. Go ahead. Attorney

2:13:40Tosco. Yes. Thank you. I can

2:13:41call you doctor this week.

2:13:43It's good to be with you all

2:13:44again this evening. Uh, again?

2:13:46Nick Tosco at Pointer Spruill.

2:13:48Um, so, to answer the question,

2:13:52this the the exercise in trying

2:13:55to figure out how to regulate

2:13:57data centers in light of what

2:13:59the current law is in North

2:14:00Carolina involves, first

2:14:02looking at what is the use that

2:14:06would be most similarly

2:14:08situated. And when you look at

2:14:09all the uses you know, in your

2:14:11use table, you have to try to

2:14:13find the one that would that

2:14:15would most similarly be

2:14:16situated to a data center. And

2:14:18if you're looking at it, you

2:14:20want to also look at and this

2:14:21is what Doctor Newton was

2:14:22mentioning. You want to look at

2:14:24where it would be allowed.

2:14:25Where in the in the use of it

2:14:26would be allowed. The, the

2:14:28consensus of staff and and and

2:14:31legal and looking at this was

2:14:32that if you look at all the

2:14:34districts where this would be

2:14:35allowed, it would be prohibited

2:14:36in every district except for

2:14:39industrial districts in the PDQ

2:14:41district and allowed in those

2:14:43districts, um, similar to a

2:14:45warehouse storage. So that's

2:14:47and then when you look at what

2:14:48the definition of a warehouse

2:14:50storage is, um, it involves

2:14:52some of the similar things. So

2:14:54there was, um, a way to

2:14:56incorporate still defined data

2:14:58centers and still put them only

2:15:00in industrial districts. But,

2:15:02um, include that in the

2:15:03definition of a warehouse

2:15:05storage. So that's kind of how

2:15:07that was arrived. And the

2:15:08reason that you want to do

2:15:09that, and I don't know if I

2:15:11mentioned this last slide, but

2:15:12the reason why that's important

2:15:13is because right now, if a data

2:15:15center wanted to come in, they

2:15:17would be able to figure out

2:15:20where they're most similar

2:15:21situated right now, so that

2:15:23that's already the case, that

2:15:24they would be able to do that.

2:15:25So the goal is to now allow

2:15:28that to happen. But with

2:15:29regulations and with

2:15:30protections in place.

2:15:32But I'm glad you went there,

2:15:33because now I'm going to ask

2:15:34you my next question. So in

2:15:35essence, the text amendments

2:15:36that you recommend give us

2:15:38better protection than what we

2:15:40previously had. Correct?

2:15:41That's correct. Yeah. Right.

2:15:42Right. Now those those do not

2:15:44exist if you don't adopt the

2:15:45text amendment. So they would

2:15:46be allowed to come in without

2:15:47those regulations and

2:15:49protections.

2:15:49Now I want to ask you just one

2:15:50more question. And if how do

2:15:53you make changes to specific

2:15:56standards that you mentioned in

2:15:59the slide? Mr. Chester, you

2:16:02cannot change those standards.

2:16:04Correct. If that that would be

2:16:05considered downs on and I if

2:16:06you want to move to specific

2:16:09standards from 1000ft to 2000ft

2:16:13for buffering, would you be

2:16:14able to do that?

2:16:15So as I mentioned last time,

2:16:17you know, this is admittedly a

2:16:19legal gray area. It is not a

2:16:21definite there's not there's no

2:16:23statute that says or no case

2:16:25that says you cannot do x, Y,

2:16:28and z. What does down zoning

2:16:29statute says is that you cannot,

2:16:32quote, decrease development

2:16:34density. You cannot reduce the

2:16:37number of uses that are

2:16:38allowed. And you cannot create

2:16:40a nonconformity. Those are the

2:16:41three things that you cannot

2:16:42do. So what the staff has

2:16:45painstakingly done is try to

2:16:47figure out a way to have the

2:16:49most amount of protections and

2:16:51regulations in place without

2:16:54violating one of those three

2:16:55things. And that's what we

2:16:57assumed.

2:16:57That's just with these text

2:16:58amendments, we can still do

2:16:59more as more information is

2:17:01approved. Absolutely.

2:17:02Yeah. There are a lot of things

2:17:04that you can continue to do as

2:17:06long as you are not violating

2:17:07one of those three things. And

2:17:09so that's a process that can

2:17:10continue. And to answer your

2:17:11question earlier, you can keep

2:17:13having text amendments to add

2:17:15further regulations.

2:17:16Thank you sir. Mr. mayor, I'm

2:17:17ready to make a motion when we

2:17:18get to that point. Thank you

2:17:19sir.

2:17:20All right. I had a couple more

2:17:22questions. I got Councilmember

2:17:24hair.

2:17:24Thank you. Um, what's the

2:17:26attorney's name?

2:17:27All right.

2:17:29Sir, the attorney, please. Last

2:17:35week, I it was sort of alluded

2:17:39to tonight. I want to at least

2:17:45move to request that we

2:17:48consider 1000ft.

2:17:51Yes.

2:17:52Versus the 500. Um, and I think

2:17:55I brought the 1000ft some years

2:17:59ago with some other commercial

2:18:02things. So considering the

2:18:061000ft, what as far as a

2:18:09signal, a red light and an

2:18:10alert, a tone.

2:18:13Well, the as Doctor Newton

2:18:15mentioned, the UNC School of

2:18:17Government has specifically

2:18:19advised about that issue, about

2:18:20setbacks and the the very the

2:18:24first element of down zoning

2:18:26that I mentioned is that you

2:18:27cannot decrease development

2:18:29density. There is an argument

2:18:30to be made that if you put a

2:18:33new 1000 foot, uh, setback

2:18:36requirement on, that reduces

2:18:39development or decreases

2:18:41development density. So that's

2:18:43why by doing the, the, the 500

2:18:46foot that is currently in

2:18:48there, you are not decreasing

2:18:50development density because

2:18:51it's already an existing

2:18:53setback. And that's why the

2:18:54goal was to to do that while

2:18:57you can. Now that that that is

2:18:58a legal gray area. So it does

2:19:00not mean that that is

2:19:01definitely going to be

2:19:02considered, uh, decreasing

2:19:04development density. But it

2:19:06could be argued that and so

2:19:07that's why staff has made that,

2:19:09to make it the most legally

2:19:10defensible it can be.

2:19:11Are you saying that that has a

2:19:14greater opportunity of bringing

2:19:18up a legal challenge.

2:19:19Under that?

2:19:21Yes, yes. I mean, there is,

2:19:25because it's an unknown because

2:19:26of the legal gray area. Yes.

2:19:27That is a possibility. It does

2:19:29do that. And that's why staff

2:19:32decided to go with the existing

2:19:33setbacks for now, until that

2:19:35could be more fleshed out.

2:19:39Okay.

2:19:40Okay. All right. Um, if.

2:19:41We could thank you, mayor.

2:19:43Please. Please. Y'all all

2:19:45right? Uh, Councilmember

2:19:47McMillan.

2:19:48Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Uh, I

2:19:50have a question for the city

2:19:52attorney. Uh, city attorney. We

2:19:55are, uh, we're now hearing some

2:19:57substantial changes to the

2:19:59draft of the amendment. UDL

2:20:01amendment. So it's presented in

2:20:03August. Uh, my question is, is,

2:20:07uh, according to general

2:20:09statute, 16601, does, uh,

2:20:15consideration of substantial

2:20:17changes, uh, changes require

2:20:19notice and another hearing?

2:20:22No, sir.

2:20:23Uh, can you, um, can you

2:20:26explain why.

2:20:28The council has already met its

2:20:31obligation to have the public

2:20:33hearing?

2:20:36Um.

2:20:37All right, all right. Yeah.

2:20:39Ahead. Councilmember McMillan.

2:20:40Would love to, because I'm

2:20:42digging in the school of

2:20:44government. Uh, looking at

2:20:46Hedon versus City of Charlotte.

2:20:48Would love to understand, uh,

2:20:51why we're not under, uh, state

2:20:54statute that says if there's

2:20:55substantial, substantial

2:20:56changes made, then it does need

2:20:58a rehearing. Notice.

2:21:00Councilman, would.

2:21:01Love.

2:21:01To.

2:21:01Hear that.

2:21:02Question. If you have some

2:21:04more.

2:21:04I do have additional questions.

2:21:07Uh, Attorney Tosco. Yeah. Can

2:21:11you cite, examples of other

2:21:12cities that have made a

2:21:14reclassification to warehouses

2:21:16of data centers? Is there any

2:21:18other example? Are we going to

2:21:20move your case?

2:21:21No. This is I cannot because,

2:21:24um, this is a brand new area

2:21:26that has been working only 14

2:21:27jurisdictions in the entire

2:21:29state of North Carolina have

2:21:30adopted data center regulations

2:21:33as far as we are aware of. So

2:21:36this is all kind of changing.

2:21:38And and what's happening and

2:21:40and and and no court

2:21:43specifically has looked at down

2:21:45zoning specifically since the

2:21:46change in 2024. So, you know,

2:21:49this is an exercise in trying

2:21:51to figure out how to regulate

2:21:54and protect the most legally

2:21:57possible way. And that's what

2:21:59that's what this was. So but

2:22:01no, I, I, I'm not aware of

2:22:03that. Um, you know that, um.

2:22:06In.

2:22:07Technique or. Yeah.

2:22:08So suggestion you've never seen

2:22:10it before. Where did the idea

2:22:11come from, if I may ask?

2:22:14Uh, where where did the idea

2:22:17come from? I mean, we we again,

2:22:18I as I mentioned at the

2:22:19beginning, the idea came from

2:22:21we were trying to find what is

2:22:24a way to add regulations and

2:22:27protections, but not change in

2:22:30existing use. Now create a new

2:22:31use where a data center could,

2:22:33you know, argue that, you know,

2:22:35a developer could argue that.

2:22:36And so what we did is we we

2:22:38found that in kind of staff

2:22:40looking at it and legal review.

2:22:42Yes. Although I know I didn't

2:22:43find any evidence of another

2:22:45municipality adopting that that

2:22:48approach of changing it to be

2:22:50classified as a warehouse. I

2:22:51did see the Raleigh has

2:22:53adopted, uh, two

2:22:55classifications of data

2:22:56centers, one minor and one

2:22:57major. The Greensboro has

2:22:59adopted a distinct use of, uh,

2:23:01of data centers. They carry, as

2:23:04has adopted already, and that,

2:23:06uh, several other

2:23:07municipalities are drafting

2:23:10moratoriums that consider, uh,

2:23:12just a separate category for

2:23:14data centers. I don't

2:23:15understand why Fayetteville

2:23:17went on its own. Uh, that to

2:23:18have something that really

2:23:20opens up the door to

2:23:22interpretation of data centers

2:23:24or something less, uh, less

2:23:25auspicious, less harmful than

2:23:27than it actually is. And that

2:23:28that that's it.

2:23:29Well.

2:23:29It raises a caution for me.

2:23:31There is one thing to to point

2:23:33out there that's very

2:23:35important. There is a very much

2:23:37a difference between

2:23:39moratoriums that are passed

2:23:40where they define data centers,

2:23:42and they have certain

2:23:43provisions that apply to

2:23:44moratoriums. And a text

2:23:46amendment to the Udo. And what

2:23:49I'm saying is the text

2:23:50amendment to your Unified

2:23:51Development ordinance and the

2:23:53regulations there. That is what

2:23:55is changing with warehouse

2:23:58storage. And so those are those

2:24:00are legally two very distinct

2:24:03processes and things that

2:24:04consider.

2:24:05So you hear the audience

2:24:07reaction. A lot of people

2:24:07showed up with interests have

2:24:09been studying this for for

2:24:10months. Uh, one of the things I

2:24:12also realized is that out of

2:24:14the seven major, most populous.

2:24:17Yeah, out of seven, the most

2:24:18populous cities in North

2:24:19Carolina are five of the five

2:24:21of those, seven are now

2:24:22considering a moratorium, are

2:24:24in the stage of drafting, uh,

2:24:26drafting UDL amendments through

2:24:28a moratorium process. So one of

2:24:30the reasons why we might jump

2:24:32to things that don't make sense

2:24:33or haven't been done is because

2:24:34we haven't taken that time as

2:24:36five of the most populous,

2:24:39seven cities.

2:24:40In North Carolina have done.

2:24:41Councilmember McMillan, we need

2:24:42to move on, because I'm.

2:24:43Also prepared to make a motion.

2:24:45And when I may, but I think one

2:24:47of the reasons you're we're

2:24:48we're running into this is

2:24:50because our peer cities are

2:24:53have not, not even completed

2:24:55this process, but they are

2:24:56taking the due diligence to

2:24:58make sure that this is

2:24:58researched and make sure that

2:25:00they have solid options for

2:25:02their council. I have a

2:25:03question for the staff, as will.

2:25:06I was probably go to you Doc

2:25:08Newton. Yeah, I'm sorry. I know

2:25:11nobody wants to answer these

2:25:12questions. Okay. No worries. I

2:25:15want to know what pure analysis

2:25:16was done by the staff. I mean,

2:25:19uh, my my colleague, uh,

2:25:21Councilmember Hondros, uh, made

2:25:24it a point to, uh, to direct

2:25:26staff or to get counsel and

2:25:28consensus with directing staff

2:25:30to do peer analysis, especially

2:25:32when these types of decisions

2:25:33are made. This has generational

2:25:35impact for Fayetteville and and

2:25:37its surrounding cities. I want

2:25:39to know how we even cleared the

2:25:40the various central and basic

2:25:42mark of doing a peer city

2:25:44analysis on on what their UDL

2:25:47amendments look like, even in

2:25:48draft form as they're as

2:25:50they're going through their

2:25:51moratorium process.

2:25:56The city Council has heard from

2:26:00the manager's office to

2:26:02individuals who have shared all

2:26:03the information that has been

2:26:04done. And and I heard your

2:26:06specific question dealing with

2:26:07peer city review, I can tell

2:26:10you that we know that

2:26:11Charlotte, as the largest, has

2:26:14come up with the the Charlotte

2:26:17has come up with a proposal

2:26:19that they would only allow data

2:26:21centers in a new zoning

2:26:23district. It covers many

2:26:27categories, but it's a proposal

2:26:29and it hasn't yet moved

2:26:30forward. We can tell you what

2:26:32others are looking at, but what

2:26:34we found was that when this was

2:26:36put in place and heard and

2:26:38presented, um, that that

2:26:43information that we had in the

2:26:45main categories that were

2:26:47discussed were the same,

2:26:48whether it was a peer review or

2:26:50a country review, and those

2:26:53were the items that we were

2:26:54trying to work through.

2:26:57Now.

2:26:58Yes. And and.

2:26:59And, and to answer, to answer

2:27:02your question as, as direct as

2:27:04I know how to we did what we

2:27:07could on a peer review given

2:27:09the conditions and standards,

2:27:10and we were told by this

2:27:12council from your meeting last

2:27:14Monday to turn something around

2:27:17based off of what had been, uh,

2:27:20shared that could not be done,

2:27:22um, before. And items that we

2:27:24had in place when we put this

2:27:27in front of you, um, back in

2:27:29the spring.

2:27:30Yes, sir. And dog Newton, with

2:27:31all due respect, one of the

2:27:32options, the council.

2:27:33Still don't have to move it.

2:27:34Yeah, the last thing, Mr.

2:27:36Mayor, one of the options

2:27:37that's on the table tonight is

2:27:39to deny these amendments and

2:27:42move through a thorough

2:27:43moratorium process, and now I

2:27:46would have had a lot more

2:27:47respect for this conversation.

2:27:50And, um, I think a lot more

2:27:52grace for the staff. If, uh, if

2:27:54you all had even asked for more

2:27:56time to get this right, even to

2:27:58ask for more time to see what

2:27:59other cities in North Carolina

2:28:01have done. And really and given

2:28:03this city what it deserves in

2:28:04terms of a thorough process.

2:28:06Thank you. Thank you.

2:28:09All right. All right. Uh.

2:28:12And again, they're not the

2:28:15policy makers we are. So the

2:28:17attorneys are here to answer

2:28:18legal questions, Mr.. And

2:28:21please maintain it. Are you be

2:28:23asked to leave, so we don't

2:28:25need to ask them policy

2:28:26questions. Procedural. Yeah,

2:28:28but the attorney is here

2:28:29visiting and he can't answer

2:28:30why the council did or didn't

2:28:32do something. All right.

2:28:33Councilmember Hondros.

2:28:34Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Um, I

2:28:36don't know if this is a

2:28:37question for, uh, ACM Phelps

2:28:39or, uh, Doctor Manziel or

2:28:42attorney uh, Tosco. Do we have

2:28:44any idea? Um, I think state

2:28:47legislatures out of their

2:28:49recess till January. Do we have

2:28:50any idea what ballpark they're

2:28:52looking at taking this stuff

2:28:54up, whether it's data center

2:28:57specific legislation or the

2:28:59down zoning legislation?

2:29:05Okay.

2:29:10Thank you for the question,

2:29:11Councilmember Hondros. I won't

2:29:13presume to know what the North

2:29:14Carolina General Assembly is

2:29:15going to do in November or in

2:29:17January. Uh, they did introduce

2:29:19the Ratepayer Protection Act

2:29:21earlier this year. It has um,

2:29:23it is not moved yet or not been

2:29:25finalized, but we understand

2:29:27that it is a conversation in

2:29:28the General Assembly. But, um,

2:29:30to this point, they have

2:29:32indicated that they're going to

2:29:33allow local municipalities to

2:29:35make local decisions and

2:29:37consider something at the state

2:29:39level at some point in time.

2:29:41Attorney costs. Um, anything on

2:29:44the down zoning, do you know,

2:29:46have you heard of any or your

2:29:48firm heard of any?

2:29:49So I, I was actually appointed

2:29:51to the working group to try to

2:29:52fix the down zoning

2:29:54legislation. I, we worked on

2:29:56legislation. Uh, we got it

2:29:58passed out of the Senate, and

2:30:00it's sitting in the House

2:30:01currently, and the House is,

2:30:03um, not not taking it up, but

2:30:05that would, uh, repeal what was

2:30:07done in 2024 to put these down

2:30:09zoning limitations on in state

2:30:11law and allow municipalities

2:30:14such as Fayetteville to be able

2:30:16to regulate without getting the

2:30:17property owner consent. Um, so

2:30:19it is eligible and, um, you

2:30:22know, communities across North

2:30:24Carolina continue to push for

2:30:25it. But, uh, we don't know if

2:30:27the House is going to take it

2:30:28up.

2:30:28And they're currently in recess

2:30:29till win until January.

2:30:31Yes.

2:30:32So that's a, um, I'm glad you

2:30:33brought that up. You said

2:30:34you're on the working group. So

2:30:35my next question, what

2:30:36qualifies your firm, generally

2:30:39speaking, or are you

2:30:40specifically as a subject

2:30:41matter expert on these matters?

2:30:43Well, I've been practicing in

2:30:44this area for over 13 years. I,

2:30:46like I mentioned at the last

2:30:47meeting, I've been a town

2:30:49attorney. Uh, I am a town

2:30:51attorney for three towns. I

2:30:53have several municipal clients

2:30:56across North Carolina that I'm

2:30:58assisting with. Data center,

2:30:59um, legal questions currently.

2:31:02And, um, so, yeah, I believe

2:31:03those are my qualifications.

2:31:05Thank you sir. Last question.

2:31:06So why include data storage

2:31:10facilities into the warehouse

2:31:11versus a new classification

2:31:14specifically for data centers?

2:31:15What's the what's the

2:31:16advantage?

2:31:17Um, so, again, uh, down zoning

2:31:20number two, the limitation is

2:31:22you cannot reduce the number of

2:31:24uses, um, to less than was

2:31:26before you did the text

2:31:28amendment. And so the, the, the

2:31:31reason for doing this this way

2:31:32is because like I mentioned

2:31:34before, a data center developer

2:31:37could come in and say, if you

2:31:39if you adopted a brand new

2:31:41definition for data centers and

2:31:42this is what the UMC School of

2:31:44Government, um, advises as

2:31:45well, if you adopted a brand

2:31:48new use for data centers and

2:31:49did not fold it into an

2:31:51existing use, they could argue

2:31:53that before you did that,

2:31:55before you created that new

2:31:56definition, that there was the

2:31:59ability to come in under that

2:32:01substantially similar, uh,

2:32:03provision of the Udo. And they

2:32:05could they could make the

2:32:06argument that their utility and

2:32:07that they're allowed by right

2:32:09in every district. So, so this

2:32:11or they could, they could I

2:32:13don't know, I'm not a data

2:32:15center attorney. So I can't I

2:32:17can't argue that, uh, I can't

2:32:19tell you what that is, but what

2:32:22I'm all right. What I'm saying

2:32:25is that that is what they could

2:32:27argue. So the idea is instead

2:32:29of, uh, you know, still define

2:32:31data centers, still have a

2:32:32separate definition, but

2:32:35include it under existing use

2:32:36so that the argument can't be

2:32:37made. You're violating down

2:32:39zoning by regulating data

2:32:40centers.

2:32:41Thank you. So currently,

2:32:44they're not data centers or

2:32:46data storage facilities are not

2:32:47in our, uh, use table. So

2:32:49they're just not allowed at

2:32:50all. Right. So we're not down

2:32:51zoning anything, right?

2:32:54Uh, no, that's not true. So,

2:32:57um, the way in which, again, it

2:32:59works is that if a data center

2:33:01comes in right now before you

2:33:03adopt any regulations or

2:33:05protections, then, uh, they,

2:33:07they would ask to be the they

2:33:09would ask to find through a

2:33:12zoning interpretation what is

2:33:14the most substantially similar

2:33:16use. So they would be going

2:33:17through that same exercise and

2:33:20they would say, okay, you know,

2:33:21we are we believe that we are

2:33:24most substantially similar to

2:33:25this use. And and therefore

2:33:27we're allowed in these

2:33:28districts. And so, um, it

2:33:30wouldn't they would not be

2:33:31prohibited because like I

2:33:33mentioned, um, you know, the

2:33:35case law says that you can't

2:33:36just prohibit you can't just

2:33:38prohibit an unlimited use.

2:33:39So instead of wrapping them

2:33:40into warehouse facilities, why

2:33:42don't we wrap them into

2:33:43something that already has a

2:33:452000 or 1000 foot setback?

2:33:48That's okay.

2:33:49I mean, I, I you got to try to

2:33:51find what is the substantially

2:33:53similar use. And, and I

2:33:55explained what that exercise

2:33:56was and trying to find that

2:33:58out. And so I can't speak to

2:33:59other uses. I can only speak to

2:34:01what it was when we were trying

2:34:03to look at what is the most

2:34:04substantially similar use.

2:34:05Thank you.

2:34:06Thank you.

2:34:07All right. Uh, Councilmember

2:34:08Jones.

2:34:09Thank you. Just real quick. Um,

2:34:11madam attorney, uh, just, for

2:34:15clarity. Let's say something

2:34:21passes. This is just to clarify

2:34:23for me. I mean, I already know.

2:34:25I just just want to make sure

2:34:26I'm tracking, um, something

2:34:28passes a and a developer put

2:34:32something in a moratorium

2:34:35happens, and other restrictions

2:34:39are added. Is it my is it is it

2:34:44true that that particular

2:34:46developer would then have an

2:34:48opportunity to choose which,

2:34:51uh, studio they would want to

2:34:53fall under? And because I know

2:34:55we we have we're council I know

2:34:57we can't review. And look at

2:34:59you all the time and and change

2:35:02I do know that. But if you keep

2:35:04doing that is that fairly

2:35:06accurate?

2:35:07Um, if I'm understanding the

2:35:09question correctly, Councilman

2:35:11Jones, you're asking if an

2:35:12applicant submits their

2:35:15application and it is approved

2:35:17before we adopt more

2:35:19ordinances. If that's the

2:35:21question, then their rights

2:35:24would be vested and they would

2:35:25be able to select whether or

2:35:28not they want to build under

2:35:29the old or the new regulation.

2:35:32Right. And that that's. Yeah.

2:35:33Thank you. And that's what I

2:35:34was getting at. Just the

2:35:36importance of trying to really,

2:35:37really get this right the, the

2:35:38first time. And I know like

2:35:40the, the young man said if they

2:35:42put in that we know that they

2:35:44would fall under certain

2:35:45things. But that that's my

2:35:46point. We can always change

2:35:48them. But if we can get it

2:35:49right that the very the first

2:35:51time and I mean, I know it

2:35:53still might be some gaps, but I

2:35:54mean, if we can really be

2:35:55intentional and really, really

2:35:57hone down and get what we need

2:35:59right there, I think that would

2:36:00somewhat, uh, reduce that.

2:36:02Alright. Thank you so much.

2:36:04Thank you.

2:36:04All right. Council member

2:36:07Fargas.

2:36:08Thank you. Mayor. Um, question.

2:36:10I think this question would

2:36:11probably be for our attorney

2:36:13now. And it's just the first

2:36:15one is based off what my

2:36:17colleague just mentioned. You

2:36:19said that, um, so if he said if

2:36:22this passes and then a

2:36:24moratorium goes forth, is that

2:36:27possible?

2:36:30That wasn't his question. We

2:36:33have a new question. His

2:36:34question was about basically

2:36:36permit choice or vested rights.

2:36:38So the difference between an

2:36:40applicant now versus an

2:36:42applicant after we pass a new

2:36:45ordinance.

2:36:46After we pass a new ordinance,

2:36:47you didn't mention, okay.

2:36:48Did you mention moratorium?

2:36:50You said once? Yeah. He said

2:36:52more to him. He said the

2:36:53moratorium goes.

2:36:54Oh, I missed that. I'm sorry.

2:36:56And I just wondered, is that

2:36:57even possible if if you that

2:37:01goes forth, then can you still.

2:37:05I thought the purpose of a

2:37:06moratorium was to work the Udo.

2:37:08If the Udo goes, then there

2:37:11wouldn't be any purpose for

2:37:12more to them. Is that correct

2:37:13or.

2:37:14That's not correct.

2:37:15Okay. Please explain.

2:37:17You would like for me to

2:37:19explain.

2:37:19To explain the. So if a

2:37:23moratorium was to if the Udo

2:37:26was passed or accepted or

2:37:29adopted.

2:37:29Yes, sir.

2:37:30And then you went forward with

2:37:31a moratorium.

2:37:33Yes, sir.

2:37:34So I didn't think I thought the

2:37:35whole purpose of a moratorium

2:37:37was to get your Udo in line.

2:37:40So it it depends on what you

2:37:43would like to do in your

2:37:44moratorium ordinance. I mean,

2:37:46you know, some ordinances might

2:37:49say no hyperscale, some might

2:37:51say none altogether. It depends

2:37:53on what you want to achieve

2:37:54with your moratorium ordinance.

2:37:56Okay, okay.

2:37:58All right. That was my

2:38:00understanding. The my next

2:38:01question is so we were talking

2:38:03about utility, the impact

2:38:05statement I guess this would be

2:38:06for Doctor Newton. Um, it it

2:38:09referred to having go having to

2:38:11go to WC. It doesn't state any

2:38:14other utility company, but I

2:38:16suggest that, I mean, I, I

2:38:17think that it would be any

2:38:19utility company that, uh, in

2:38:21the city of Fayetteville, but

2:38:23it would go to WC. So my

2:38:24question is, have we, um, I

2:38:28know you work with TWC to some

2:38:30extent, but is there any thing

2:38:32that, uh, TWC has enacted or

2:38:36any kind of ordinance that they

2:38:38have enacted that states their

2:38:41limitations, states what it is

2:38:44that so that we would know,

2:38:46because we haven't really heard

2:38:48from PwC. We have heard some,

2:38:51um, some things that were

2:38:53general, uh, but nothing

2:38:55specific. Are there any

2:38:57specificities as it relates to,

2:38:59um, once you that process goes

2:39:02through because from the, from

2:39:04the this is saying the

2:39:05application process would

2:39:06include sending this to PwC. Is

2:39:08that correct?

2:39:09That that is correct.

2:39:10Okay. And then we'll get, uh,

2:39:13back from PwC, which will be a

2:39:15determinant in whether we, um,

2:39:18okay. Go ahead.

2:39:19I'm sorry.

2:39:20PwC or any of the utility

2:39:22providers, it would be any of

2:39:23them that are involved in the

2:39:25language that you see in the

2:39:26definition. If you allow me,

2:39:28because the audience doesn't

2:39:29necessarily see this, but I

2:39:31will at least be able to share

2:39:32it by saying it.

2:39:34I okay.

2:39:36A submittal prepared for a data

2:39:38center facility site plan

2:39:41documenting projected peak

2:39:43electrical demand. See VA or

2:39:47excuse me, MVA or megawatt. Go

2:39:53off the technical for a minute.

2:39:55How much? How much capacity is

2:39:57there? They have to provide

2:39:59what they could provide as well

2:40:00as that that dirty electric

2:40:02that people are. That's what

2:40:03MVA and M V are anticipated.

2:40:08Water consumption and

2:40:09wastewater flows by processing

2:40:11potable cooling, fire reserve,

2:40:14cooling method, number of

2:40:16rating of backup generation on

2:40:18site fuel storage type and

2:40:19volume in any energy storage

2:40:21proposed with verification from

2:40:23Public Works Commission or

2:40:24other utility provider that

2:40:26such utility provided. Has the

2:40:28capacity and ability to serve

2:40:31such use.

2:40:32Okay, and I understand all that

2:40:34and um, so but my question was,

2:40:37it's saying that it's going to

2:40:39make that determinant. But what

2:40:40is that terminate for example.

2:40:43We won't accept the data center

2:40:45that uses more than x amount of

2:40:47kilowatts. We won't accept data

2:40:49center that uses X amount of

2:40:51water. Is there any kind of

2:40:53guidelines or anything because

2:40:54this is just general and basic

2:40:56understanding. It doesn't have

2:40:57any specificity.

2:40:58Understood. And as.

2:40:59You.

2:41:00Um, the the answer to answering

2:41:04that, I'm going to answer it

2:41:05two different ways, if you

2:41:06will. The, um, PwC doesn't have

2:41:10a standard that they have that

2:41:12they could provide. It was

2:41:14requested. Okay. But they do

2:41:16look at the capacity issue on

2:41:18all those levels and what we

2:41:20have by putting this definition

2:41:22in is if they say that they

2:41:23can't meet it, then it doesn't

2:41:25go, if you will, on the board

2:41:27to even get started and

2:41:28considered. If they can't

2:41:30provide that they have the

2:41:31capacity or the ability to

2:41:33serve, it doesn't move forward.

2:41:35It can't move forward. Now, the

2:41:37second one that most people are

2:41:39comfortable with and have

2:41:40heard, is when we talk about

2:41:42traffic impact, we look at

2:41:45traffic analysis. What level of

2:41:47service are they providing? And

2:41:49if a road already is

2:41:50overcapacity, then certain

2:41:52things don't happen. That's the

2:41:53same equivalent of what's being

2:41:55proposed on a utility impact

2:41:56statement. It is the utility

2:41:58company that has that

2:42:00authority. We do not have that

2:42:01authority, but it can inform us

2:42:03that unless they say they have

2:42:05it. And we've already heard

2:42:07from many of them that they

2:42:08people are saying we don't have

2:42:10anything for years. But in the

2:42:12idea of protection and

2:42:13coverage, that's why this

2:42:15statement is put in. We can't

2:42:16put it in as a direct item, but

2:42:18we can put it in as a

2:42:19definition.

2:42:20Right. So you say that you did

2:42:22request that, but you have not

2:42:23received it.

2:42:24They don't. They have. That's

2:42:26correct. Everyone's individual.

2:42:27All right. Thank you. And my

2:42:28last question is in relation.

2:42:30Well it's not really a question

2:42:31I guess it's um, the 500ft

2:42:35setback I think that has been

2:42:37brought up a few times. Um, and

2:42:39then it was asked of trying to

2:42:41get it to 1000. Well, um, one

2:42:43of my colleagues mentioned

2:42:45that, uh, well, the response

2:42:46was that, um, it's doable. Um,

2:42:51and you even said we're trying

2:42:53to work through that. Correct?

2:42:56We we.

2:42:57You had two motions that

2:42:58happened last Monday. The

2:43:00second one deals with

2:43:01moratorium and items that need

2:43:03to be further addressed. If you

2:43:05recall, when I stood here back

2:43:06in August in front of you, I

2:43:08told you zoning cannot cover

2:43:09all the items that need

2:43:10covered. There are items that

2:43:11should be addressed that a

2:43:13moratorium can address, that we

2:43:15can't, that we cannot, that we

2:43:17cannot cover with the zoning

2:43:19regulations that are in chapter

2:43:2030. Those would be the types of

2:43:22things that could be looked at.

2:43:24But we have what we have is the

2:43:25challenge is what you've heard

2:43:27the attorneys say several times

2:43:30is what the state has found on

2:43:34us puts a very tight limit in

2:43:36terms of what we can do now,

2:43:37where we can't take away what

2:43:40they view as individual

2:43:41property development rights.

2:43:43I gotcha, but you are still

2:43:44trying to work through that.

2:43:45Yes, absolutely. Okay.

2:43:47Thank you mayor.

2:43:48All right. Uh, Council

2:43:50Councilmember Davis.

2:43:51Thank you, Mister mayor. My

2:43:52question is for the attorney.

2:43:53Um, you mentioned earlier that

2:43:55there were some other cities

2:43:57that has adopted a ordinance,

2:44:00correct? I think last meeting

2:44:03you said you can't discuss who

2:44:04you work for. Is that correct?

2:44:05That's correct.

2:44:06Right. But through your

2:44:08experience.

2:44:09What other.

2:44:10Through your experience? What

2:44:12other relatable studios have

2:44:15they put data centers with? Uh,

2:44:17maybe it's not warehouse, but

2:44:18it's something else for that

2:44:19city. Do you know what those

2:44:20are?

2:44:21No, I have not. Like I've not

2:44:24studied the, the the 14 other

2:44:26that I'm aware of that I've not

2:44:27said exactly what they've done.

2:44:29Okay. Everyone's been a little

2:44:31bit different. There's not like

2:44:32a set formula of that. They've

2:44:34done.

2:44:34So based off of ours because

2:44:36I'm sure you looked at most of

2:44:37ours. Was there any other, um,

2:44:39you know, that data centers

2:44:41could go along with other than

2:44:42warehouse that maybe had like

2:44:45Councilmember Hondros said, a

2:44:47larger setback or something

2:44:48like.

2:44:48That?

2:44:50Well, the issue is there's only

2:44:52so many industrial uses that

2:44:55are only allowed in industrial

2:44:57districts that have a similar

2:44:59use type and use category. So,

2:45:02um, and looking through all

2:45:03those, you know, we looked we

2:45:05looked at some of the other

2:45:06ones, I don't really remember

2:45:07what the other ones were, but

2:45:09they were they were allowed in

2:45:10more districts instead of less.

2:45:12They were not quite. They

2:45:14weren't they didn't really deal

2:45:15with an industrial service, you

2:45:17know. So this this was the the

2:45:20one that kind of accomplished

2:45:21all the different aspects of

2:45:24looking at a substantially

2:45:25similar use.

2:45:25But okay, so I have two other

2:45:28three other questions actually.

2:45:29So.

2:45:30Oh, I can answer your question

2:45:31actually. Um, I remember now

2:45:33one of them was General

2:45:35Industrial, which also does not

2:45:38it is not as substantially

2:45:40similar as a warehouse storage.

2:45:41You need to look.

2:45:42At it. You know, the setback

2:45:43for that.

2:45:44I do not know from top of.

2:45:45My head.

2:45:46So my question is about down

2:45:47zoning, right. So has there

2:45:48ever been a time that a city

2:45:50has been sued for down zoning

2:45:52issues?

2:45:53Yes.

2:45:54Okay. So my other question

2:45:55would be my other question will

2:45:58be.

2:45:58Um.

2:45:59Was it a county? Was it a city?

2:46:00Was the.

2:46:01County?

2:46:02My other question was this

2:46:05amendment does not address the

2:46:08closed loop system or or what

2:46:09we learned. So council voted on

2:46:1115 best practices from Loudoun

2:46:13County that we have gotten

2:46:14right. We we voted on those to

2:46:15go inside of a proposed Udo.

2:46:18Are you aware of those 15 best

2:46:21practices that we had? No.

2:46:22I'm not sure I am.

2:46:23Okay.

2:46:24So one of the things we talked

2:46:26about was putting a closed loop

2:46:27system requirement or enclosed

2:46:29generators.

2:46:30Well.

2:46:30That trigger down zoning, if we

2:46:33asked for that to be put inside

2:46:34of this, um, current Udo.

2:46:37Um, I do not believe that a

2:46:38closed loop cooling system

2:46:40requirement does violate down

2:46:42zoning. That's my legal

2:46:43opinion.

2:46:44Okay.

2:46:44So maybe that's something that

2:46:45we can get in there so that we

2:46:46can have other measurements in

2:46:49the in that Udo.

2:46:50There is something that you

2:46:51should be aware of, which is

2:46:52like the, the one thing it's

2:46:55not a down zoning requirement,

2:46:57but as it relates to I think

2:46:59you said something about

2:47:00generation like power

2:47:01generation.

2:47:01Code generators.

2:47:02Enclosed generators, um, or

2:47:04requiring, you know, I think

2:47:06other places have, um,

2:47:08proposed, not adopted, but

2:47:10proposed. Um, you know,

2:47:12requiring a certain amount of

2:47:13renewable energy usage and

2:47:15things like that. Those the,

2:47:17the issue with those is not

2:47:18down zoning. It is preemption

2:47:21by the state because the North

2:47:22Carolina Utilities Commission

2:47:23is the one that regulates the

2:47:25type of energy usage. And so

2:47:27that's what you have to be

2:47:28careful of as it relates to,

2:47:30um, requirements around the

2:47:31generation of energy and what

2:47:33what can and cannot be used.

2:47:36Okay. Thank you sir. Yep.

2:47:38All right. Um, attorney, I have

2:47:40a couple questions for you.

2:47:41Sure. So the down zoning, uh,

2:47:44tell me the three components to

2:47:46it. One was the density,

2:47:47explained the density in

2:47:48particular.

2:47:48So the requirement number one

2:47:50is you cannot decrease

2:47:52development density. That's

2:47:53number one. Number two is you

2:47:55cannot reduce the permitted

2:47:57uses that were allowed before

2:47:59you did the text amendment

2:48:01compared to after the text

2:48:02amendment. Um, and so then the

2:48:04the third one is you cannot

2:48:06create any kind of

2:48:07nonconformity. Um, so you can't

2:48:10do something that would then

2:48:11put somebody essentially, um,

2:48:14you know, not in compliance

2:48:16with the Udo.

2:48:17So, so would, uh, in that, in

2:48:21that case, for the third

2:48:23component, um, if you

2:48:25grandfathered people in. So in

2:48:27other words, one of the the

2:48:28when the strategic planning,

2:48:30uh, department guys make this

2:48:33presentation, uh, a couple of

2:48:34weeks ago, they were saying

2:48:36that you could not choose, uh,

2:48:39a certain classification, like

2:48:41warehouse districts and apply

2:48:42it to one group without it

2:48:44applying to everybody. And so,

2:48:46in other words, if you require

2:48:481000ft for, for, you know, data

2:48:51centers in the warehouse

2:48:53district, then all businesses

2:48:54in that warehouse district

2:48:56would be required 1000 foot

2:48:58setback. And so there was some

2:49:00discussion about that. But then

2:49:03the at the conclusion of that,

2:49:05um, anyone who existed before

2:49:07that would be grandfathered. Is

2:49:09that is that correct?

2:49:10Right. Yeah. This we were very

2:49:13intentional with this proposed

2:49:14text amendment to make it only

2:49:15applicable to future going

2:49:18forward. Um, so that there

2:49:20wouldn't be creation of any

2:49:21nonconformity. You wouldn't

2:49:22have, you know, an existing

2:49:24data center that would need to

2:49:25comply with those. In other

2:49:26words, yeah, there's an

2:49:28existing data center in there

2:49:29not 1000ft away or 500ft away.

2:49:32They wouldn't be a

2:49:33nonconformity.

2:49:34Right. And and the other thing

2:49:35I wanted to ask about was the

2:49:37density piece. Right now, um,

2:49:40local governments use, uh,

2:49:42reducing parking requirements

2:49:44and other things to be able to

2:49:45increase density. So in other

2:49:47words, if you had a situation

2:49:49where you went from a 500 foot

2:49:51set back to a thousand, could

2:49:53you make some other adjustments

2:49:55to that? They were not impacted

2:49:56by the reduction to trigger.

2:49:58Then the downs on it. So in

2:50:00other words, not require as

2:50:02many parking spaces or do

2:50:03something like that to make up

2:50:04for the buffer space that you

2:50:05just asked.

2:50:06I think that definitely would

2:50:07help rebut against a down

2:50:09zoning argument.

2:50:10So that could be a way to get

2:50:12to the thousand foot buffer. If

2:50:15if you made other provisions or

2:50:17made other adjustments.

2:50:18Okay.

2:50:19And then, um, and then the, uh,

2:50:24there was one other piece that

2:50:25that I had to ask about, but

2:50:27but it slipped me. But I think

2:50:29you I think you answered the

2:50:30main question. I appreciate it.

2:50:31Thank you.

2:50:32All right. Um, Councilmember

2:50:35McMillan.

2:50:36Yeah. Thank you, Mr. Mayor.

2:50:37Yeah, we're clearly not ready

2:50:38to adopt text amendments

2:50:40tonight.

2:50:41I agree.

2:50:42Uh, I have a question again for

2:50:43staff. I think Doc Newton, if

2:50:45you if you are willing, um, and

2:50:50appreciate the work this staff

2:50:51has done. I don't mean to imply

2:50:53that there has been no

2:50:55analysis. Uh, but when I look

2:50:58at what's going on in other

2:50:59cities after adoption of a

2:51:02moratorium, even looking at the

2:51:03schedule for moratoriums, um,

2:51:07there seems to be, a truncated,

2:51:10more, more rushed approach for

2:51:12Fayetteville. And my question

2:51:14to you is, do you think that,

2:51:16uh, Fayetteville and the city

2:51:19staff, uh, could develop a, uh,

2:51:23more thorough, uh, more

2:51:26rigorously analyzed product and

2:51:29present a different set of UDL

2:51:31text amendments? Uh, as the if

2:51:35it were treated as the capstone

2:51:37of a moratorium process versus,

2:51:41uh, something that's

2:51:41unnaturally placed before

2:51:44moratorium. And that's my

2:51:46question to you.

2:51:51It's a good question. We have,

2:51:54um, as you know, we've spent a

2:51:56lot of time and then found that

2:51:59the school of government that

2:51:59we've been asking to weigh in,

2:52:01um, make some give us some

2:52:03guidance on this. When they

2:52:05came in on September 16th and

2:52:09gave the findings that much of

2:52:11what we tried to put together,

2:52:12uh, had to be moved out and

2:52:15council, uh, legal counsel, and

2:52:18it involved four attorneys

2:52:19being involved in that came

2:52:21back with the idea of you have

2:52:23to come up with something that

2:52:24you have no protections. Now

2:52:25you have to remove that one

2:52:28sentence that we were relying a

2:52:30lot on. I think the second

2:52:34motion that you had last week

2:52:37is an important one for us to

2:52:39continue the process. The the

2:52:42idea of we were asked to turn

2:52:44it. We have. And, um, honestly,

2:52:48I don't know a better way to

2:52:50address it other than this is

2:52:52going to continue to change.

2:52:54Uh, what we see this month and

2:52:56what we see in three months and

2:52:57six months in a year, it's

2:52:58going to continue to change, as

2:53:00you've heard of all the every

2:53:03jurisdiction has to come up

2:53:04with something. City, uh, here

2:53:07is in Cumberland County that

2:53:09next month is going to be

2:53:11moving forward with their

2:53:12proposal. We know what those

2:53:14are. We've been trying to work

2:53:15coordinating with them, but

2:53:17their moratorium that they have

2:53:19in place is planning to lift in

2:53:21December, and they're looking

2:53:23to take action in November.

2:53:25Every community in this in

2:53:28North Carolina is having to

2:53:29determine and work through

2:53:31this. The answer of more time

2:53:35definitely makes for a better

2:53:37overall document. At some point

2:53:41in the future, when we get I

2:53:43really can't keep my focus when

2:53:46I'm hearing that, um.

2:53:50But.

2:53:52I lost where I was. Give me a

2:53:55second more time. Uh, and

2:53:59changes with what the state has

2:54:02dealing with this down zoning,

2:54:04whether it's through court

2:54:06cases, statute or common law

2:54:10interpretations that continue

2:54:12to morph and adjust will lead

2:54:15to changes in our ordinances.

2:54:18They have to. Um, and we don't

2:54:20know yet as as you've heard, we

2:54:22don't know yet where we all

2:54:24stand. But what we do recognize

2:54:27is that one simple sentence

2:54:29that has to be taken out or we

2:54:31are not in ordinance in in

2:54:34alliance with the state statute

2:54:38is a problem for us. So more

2:54:40time obviously makes it better.

2:54:44When I discuss this whole

2:54:47issue, we need time to really

2:54:49think through a lot of

2:54:50implications. Uh, and to

2:54:53shorten that back to where we

2:54:54are tonight, we were asked by

2:54:58the council to prepare the

2:55:00information back that would

2:55:02provide protections. Now with

2:55:05the idea that that second

2:55:07motion that that will be coming

2:55:09back will provide opportunities

2:55:10for us to do that. So I don't

2:55:12know what that's going to look

2:55:13like. I know that there's been

2:55:15discussion of what that

2:55:15moratorium is going to be. It

2:55:16will be guide, I believe it

2:55:18will be through the attorney's

2:55:20office and our office and

2:55:21others. Manager's office will

2:55:23be working toward that. But in

2:55:25terms of where we are right

2:55:26now, this is this is what we

2:55:28could do, given what we heard.

2:55:31Right?

2:55:31I respect that and appreciate

2:55:33that answer. Doug Newton, uh,

2:55:35we can help out as a council.

2:55:37We can help out with some

2:55:38direction tonight.

2:55:39And I guess I'm I'm missing a

2:55:41point to say we heard some

2:55:43really good things from our

2:55:44community, too.

2:55:45Yes.

2:55:45We really did. Um, there are

2:55:47things that we know that helped

2:55:51validate what we thought was

2:55:53going on. But when we heard

2:55:55from individuals and could sit

2:55:56and listen to them, we actually

2:55:58heard a lot of good points. And

2:56:00those points are ones that we

2:56:02want to make sure that we find

2:56:03a way to fold in. But they're

2:56:04not ones that are just in

2:56:06chapter 30. In zoning, right?

2:56:08Right. Can I can I also echo

2:56:11that and say thank you to the

2:56:13people who showed up tonight,

2:56:14because many of them are the

2:56:15ones that have been showing up

2:56:17faithfully, that have been

2:56:18speaking in public forums and

2:56:20giving us the idea. I want to

2:56:21note that this community was

2:56:24one of the first, uh,

2:56:26metropolitan areas in North

2:56:28Carolina that came forward and

2:56:29said, we want a moratorium. We

2:56:31started hearing hearing calls

2:56:33in Fayetteville for that

2:56:35earlier this year. We started

2:56:36seeing petitions late last

2:56:38year. So it's been a long road

2:56:40to get here. But since then,

2:56:42Charlotte has paused. They just

2:56:44put their moratorium in place

2:56:46in June. And actually they meet

2:56:49tonight about extending. And

2:56:51one of the things that they did

2:56:53is set up a community task

2:56:54force where they brought those

2:56:56brilliant people that live as

2:56:58residents and paired them up

2:57:00with scientists and got some of

2:57:02the best ordinance language

2:57:04that they can get. And they're

2:57:05moving forward on that. I also

2:57:06want to note that Greensboro

2:57:07adopted a moratorium in August.

2:57:09Durham County, also Durham

2:57:11County and City in August,

2:57:13Raleigh adopted a moratorium

2:57:16this month and is going deep on

2:57:18the scientific research and

2:57:19already came up with two

2:57:20different subclasses.

2:57:21Classifications of data

2:57:23centers. Uh, as part of their

2:57:24ordinance. So even though we

2:57:26were first and didn't pick up

2:57:27on it, I still have faith that

2:57:29this this board will vote to

2:57:32give you the space that you

2:57:33that you deserve as a staff to

2:57:35to correctly and to thoroughly

2:57:38to develop some, uh, some UDL

2:57:41text amendments that are

2:57:42thorough and informed by

2:57:44in-depth analysis. But but

2:57:45appreciate appreciate your

2:57:47answer.

2:57:48All right. Uh.

2:57:50So, uh.

2:57:52Mayor Pro Tem Thompson.

2:57:55Thank you. Mayor. Uh, let me

2:57:58just first start by saying,

2:58:00Doctor Newton, I. believe you

2:58:02guys started working on this

2:58:03probably over a year ago. I

2:58:04think it was October last year.

2:58:06I think you guys started

2:58:07working on I think a year from

2:58:09now they'll still be working on

2:58:11it because this changes every

2:58:14day. I think my colleagues

2:58:16refer to, uh, peer cities and I

2:58:21believe every peer city he

2:58:22mentioned already has a data

2:58:23center. So I think what we're

2:58:25doing here is something that

2:58:26hasn't been done before,

2:58:27because we don't have a data

2:58:29center. I think the the effort

2:58:32that you guys, uh, in the

2:58:33planning department has put

2:58:34forth in the given US position

2:58:37provisions now to help protect

2:58:39us now for what may come, if an

2:58:41application do come in is

2:58:43honorable. And I appreciate

2:58:45your entire staff for that.

2:58:47Let's make sure that we do

2:58:48something now so we can have

2:58:49the protections that we need

2:58:51for our constituents, that

2:58:52everybody keeps talking about.

2:58:54What about we're going to

2:58:55protect this what what what

2:58:56we're doing right now is adding

2:58:59amendments to a text amendment

2:59:01to an ordinance so that we can

2:59:02do just that. And that's what

2:59:04I'm going to propose tonight,

2:59:05Mr. Mayor.

2:59:06Thank you. All right.

2:59:06All right. So come on,

2:59:09ordinance, we've been we've

2:59:10been doing well. Um, so I think

2:59:14there's there's a lot of

2:59:15positives come out of this,

2:59:16right. Um, to to Councilmember

2:59:20McMillan. I'll take it back a

2:59:22little bit about, you know, by

2:59:24saying Fayetteville was first.

2:59:26Um, and these other areas,

2:59:27these, these other metros, um,

2:59:29put in moratoriums, you know,

2:59:31Charlotte has 13, Greensboro

2:59:33and Winston have nine, Raleigh,

2:59:36Chapel Hill and Durham, between

2:59:38the three of them have between

2:59:398 and 10. And and again, if

2:59:43they pause to get it right, I'm

2:59:44interested to hear that

2:59:45Charlotte was contemplating

2:59:47creating its own separate

2:59:49classification. I asked that

2:59:50question when we received the

2:59:52presentation. So I do kind of

2:59:54want to hear from the attorney

2:59:55about how it is or what. What

2:59:58stops you from creating its own

3:00:00classification so it doesn't

3:00:01have to fit into a box because

3:00:03you you know, I heard you say

3:00:04Charlotte was was contemplating

3:00:06that, but you didn't know it

3:00:07was passed. But the bottom line

3:00:09is, is that, uh, the uniqueness

3:00:12to us is that we're large and

3:00:14didn't have any examples, as

3:00:16was stated. But I think the

3:00:17positive to what you have out

3:00:19of all of this, because there

3:00:21have been every public, uh,

3:00:24forum which is required to have

3:00:26the first of the month, uh, in

3:00:28addition to the public hearings

3:00:30that have been had in addition

3:00:32to the ones that are coming up

3:00:33with the moratorium, in

3:00:35addition to the listening

3:00:36sessions, in addition to all of

3:00:39these comments that you heard

3:00:41out of that came and the trips

3:00:42to Loudoun, Virginia, out of

3:00:44that came noise utility, uh,

3:00:49electrical impact information.

3:00:52And that came from an email. A

3:00:54lot of these items are included

3:00:55in an email from somebody in

3:00:56this audience today. I don't

3:00:57want to call his name, but a

3:00:59lot of that was adopted. But

3:01:01what it says is that this is a

3:01:03living, breathing process in a,

3:01:05in a, in a document. And at the

3:01:07end of all of that, you know,

3:01:09it sounds good to just say more

3:01:12term and let's not talk about

3:01:13it. But the moratorium we've

3:01:15established.

3:01:16Oh.

3:01:16Not the moratorium as we have

3:01:20established, is a temporary

3:01:22process. The county's process

3:01:25will expire. It's six months,

3:01:27will be up in a month or a

3:01:29month and a half. Okay. And so

3:01:32at some point, I've said this

3:01:34before, we're going to try to

3:01:36get it right. You want to do as

3:01:38much as you can, but the

3:01:40community is still going to be

3:01:41in a situation where that

3:01:43temporary period comes off and

3:01:44you're going to have to do

3:01:45something, a turn it to your

3:01:47point. You said tonight that in

3:01:51the event that it was a

3:01:52hypothetical question asked

3:01:53that said in the event that an

3:01:55application came in and then a

3:01:58and then a law changed, that

3:02:00they could make the case that

3:02:01they wanted to then be included

3:02:03or considered under the old

3:02:05because the application was in

3:02:07right now, excuse.

3:02:09Me.

3:02:10We're not doing that.

3:02:12Yes.

3:02:13You've had your turn to speak.

3:02:14This is the council debating

3:02:16this. So?

3:02:17So. Alright, shame, shame,

3:02:20shame.

3:02:21So you don't get anywhere.

3:02:22Like that? No shame. So

3:02:27strange. Yeah.

3:02:29Either way, next.

3:02:31Outburst. Uh, officer?

3:02:33Officer. Any outburst? Removal?

3:02:36Because we're going to finish

3:02:37this business tonight. So

3:02:38anybody that wants to leave, do

3:02:39it now or or holler. out now at

3:02:44the end of it, we're going to

3:02:45try to get it right. But at

3:02:46some point we're going to come

3:02:47to a decision. Council members,

3:02:48we're going to have to make a

3:02:49decision because the state is

3:02:50not going to allow us to make

3:02:51anything permanent. So I do

3:02:53like the fact that we learned a

3:02:55lot from Loudoun County. We

3:02:57learned a lot from this email

3:02:58tonight. We learned a lot from

3:02:59these presentations, and we

3:03:00learned a lot from the public

3:03:01comment section. So I think

3:03:04there's an opportunity to

3:03:05continue to get it right to

3:03:06work together. Uh, to have

3:03:08positive discussion. And so

3:03:11whether we agree or not, I

3:03:12think that is where we are with

3:03:13it. So, um, so with that, um,

3:03:16uh, Council member, uh,

3:03:18Ferguson is just second round.

3:03:21Um, McMillan you've had two and

3:03:22then we'll we'll need to make a

3:03:23decision. All right. Mayor Pro

3:03:26Tem, go back to you.

3:03:28What you asked.

3:03:35Thank you. Mayor, I'm

3:03:38contemplating, uh. Let us do

3:03:42this. I will make a motion that

3:03:43we move to adopt the revised

3:03:45amendment that provides

3:03:46conditional rezoning

3:03:47applications for warehouse

3:03:48storage uses and data centers,

3:03:51and find that proposed

3:03:52amendments is consistent with

3:03:54the adopted comprehensive plan.

3:03:57But I would also move that it

3:04:01takes effect the date that is

3:04:04set for the public hearing for

3:04:06the moratorium.

3:04:09Can you repeat that?

3:04:11All right.

3:04:12It's just to make sure I'm

3:04:14clear.

3:04:14Hold on.

3:04:19Can you.

3:04:20Repeat it? Yeah.

3:04:21I would move that. We accept

3:04:24the revised amendments, the

3:04:26text amendments for the

3:04:28ordinance, but I would also

3:04:30move that it does not take

3:04:32effect until the date is set,

3:04:35until after the public hearing

3:04:37for the moratorium, whenever

3:04:40that may be. According to the

3:04:42city attorney schedule.

3:04:43All right, all right.

3:04:44All right. Uh, so, um.

3:04:52So as a motion by Mayor Pro

3:04:54tem, and if I understood it

3:04:56because there's a lot of noise

3:04:58in the background, um, there's

3:05:00a motion to adopt the initial

3:05:02ordinance. Uh, and not make it

3:05:06effect until after the public

3:05:08hearings. That what you said?

3:05:09All right. Is there a second

3:05:10to.

3:05:11That?

3:05:15I'll second it for discussion,

3:05:16because I need to ask the

3:05:17attorney some questions.

3:05:18All right.

3:05:19So so as the second by

3:05:21Councilman Davis and I do go

3:05:23ahead and ask you a question

3:05:24because I got I got a

3:05:25procedural question.

3:05:26So do you know when we will

3:05:29have the hearing on the

3:05:30moratorium or you have a rough

3:05:32estimate of estimated time?

3:05:37Councilwoman Davis, that

3:05:38depends on when we can get it

3:05:40to a work session. Um, we don't

3:05:43have another work session until

3:05:45January, but I suppose the

3:05:46council can could consider it

3:05:48at a regular meeting or the

3:05:49special meeting on December

3:05:527th. Um, it will need to go to

3:05:55planning and planning holds its

3:05:57own public hearing, and then it

3:05:59will come to council for

3:06:00council to hold a public

3:06:01hearing. Of course, we have to

3:06:02have the ordinance drafted.

3:06:05Um.

3:06:05So basically, we possibly could

3:06:07get it by December 7th. Is that

3:06:09what you said?

3:06:10We could certainly have a draft

3:06:12ordinance that we would need to

3:06:13work through that, because

3:06:14council has to make certain

3:06:15findings. And so, you know, we

3:06:17could bring a draft ordinance

3:06:18the same way we'd bring

3:06:19something.

3:06:20To a special meeting. Great.

3:06:21Well, we have one scheduled for

3:06:23the seventh right now, December

3:06:247th.

3:06:25Oh,

3:06:25Okay. All right.

3:06:26Thank you.

3:06:27All right. Uh, Councilmember

3:06:30McMillan.

3:06:31Yes. Uh, start with the

3:06:32question, Mayor Pro Tem, about

3:06:34your motion. Um, can you

3:06:37explain what the what the

3:06:38trigger is or why you put that

3:06:40time stipulation?

3:06:43Because everyone is under the

3:06:44impression that you're going to

3:06:45have a moratorium to stop it or

3:06:48to go even further with the

3:06:49text amendments. So it's going

3:06:51to be based on whether you are

3:06:52moratorium motion passes or

3:06:54not.

3:06:54Okay.

3:06:55Yeah. And I I'd like to address

3:06:57that, if I may, uh, need to

3:06:59say, uh, on the record, the

3:07:02making a, a rushed move to move

3:07:06towards a moratorium that

3:07:08absolutely needs more

3:07:09discussion and analysis. Excuse

3:07:11me. Making a move to move

3:07:13towards UDL text amendments.

3:07:16The absolutely need more

3:07:17analysis is dangerous. Um,

3:07:20especially because of what you

3:07:21just said. We're not sure when

3:07:23when the moratorium will go

3:07:24into place. But if you put this

3:07:27into place, sir, and a

3:07:29developer sometime before a

3:07:32moratorium, before that pause

3:07:34is put in place, takes

3:07:36advantage of a lack standard,

3:07:39something that is less

3:07:40restrictive because of down

3:07:42zoning requirements in North

3:07:44Carolina. It's going to be

3:07:45statutorily very, uh, near

3:07:48impossible for us, uh, to

3:07:51enforce our restrictive

3:07:53standards. So that what I'm

3:07:55saying, if you could.

3:07:56But I just want you to

3:07:57understand that staff just

3:07:59recommended that we put this

3:08:01into place to give us more

3:08:02protections, not less.

3:08:03Let me say that's. why let me

3:08:05let me come back to you on

3:08:06that. That's why I ask the

3:08:08question to Doc Newton, because

3:08:10he said what? Everybody else in

3:08:12the room already knows.

3:08:13Apparently, is that if we take

3:08:15our time and we allow staff to

3:08:18have the time to develop a

3:08:21wonderful product, and we put

3:08:23the time in a moratorium into

3:08:26developing a wonderful product,

3:08:28it will be that restrictive

3:08:29product that we need. What what

3:08:31you're proposing, sir. What

3:08:33you're proposing put could put

3:08:35us in danger. You say it's

3:08:37putting something in place, but

3:08:39that's something is worse than

3:08:41just putting focusing our

3:08:42attention on a moratorium. The

3:08:44moratorium is the best

3:08:46protection that we have.

3:08:47Yes, yes, yes.

3:08:48Yes. Against a data center, a

3:08:51hyperscale data center

3:08:52developer coming in and

3:08:53developing in short term, it's

3:08:54the best that we have. So if

3:08:56you want to do the least, then

3:08:58you push something through

3:08:59tonight. But if you want to do

3:09:00what's best for Fayetteville,

3:09:01sir, I would advise withdrawing

3:09:04that motion and allowing us to

3:09:06instead focus on when we can

3:09:08schedule this moratorium here.

3:09:09Don't, don't.

3:09:10All right, all right. So so so,

3:09:14Doctor Newton, can you come up

3:09:15here and then madam Attorney,

3:09:17because that that technically

3:09:20isn't true. Councilmember

3:09:21McMillan, now, I know that I

3:09:23know that we like to say what

3:09:24sounds good. But Doctor Newton

3:09:25right now, right now, with no

3:09:28with no ordinance in place, if

3:09:32an application is made, what

3:09:34happens to it? Who makes the

3:09:36decision for where it goes?

3:09:38It has to the if somebody came

3:09:41in tomorrow, they would make a

3:09:46a position as to what it

3:09:49belongs in. That then requires

3:09:51an official interpretation that

3:09:53would be determined by the city

3:09:55manager. That is also a new

3:09:57that is also a new statute that

3:10:00requires formal

3:10:01interpretations. It didn't

3:10:03exist when we were looking in

3:10:04the spring. Right? That is a

3:10:05new interpretation requirement

3:10:07by statute.

3:10:08Right. So, so right now, none

3:10:11of these things that you've

3:10:12talked about, the noise, the

3:10:15extra setbacks.

3:10:16The the extra items wouldn't.

3:10:18Be wouldn't.

3:10:18Apply the. That's correct.

3:10:22Okay. And so it's technically

3:10:24not true what you said that

3:10:25you've got less protection by

3:10:27doing this because right now

3:10:28you're vulnerable to

3:10:29everything. And the attorney

3:10:31just said the process has to go

3:10:34through its process for

3:10:36moratorium. And attorney. You

3:10:38you're you you've been

3:10:39experiencing this ask you this

3:10:41because. there's a there's a

3:10:42lot of false information that's

3:10:43put.

3:10:44Out.

3:10:45Right. And so basically where

3:10:48we are at this moment, if an

3:10:50application is submitted as, as

3:10:52asked of Doctor Newton and we

3:10:54don't have this in place, then

3:10:57it kind of falls into where

3:10:59things are at this moment.

3:11:00Correct?

3:11:01Correct. Yes.

3:11:02And then technically or

3:11:04theoretically, someone could.

3:11:05Make I'm sorry, I cannot.

3:11:06Yeah I know and and we're going

3:11:07to clear the room. One more

3:11:09outburst because we're trying

3:11:10to handle this.

3:11:11Keep it cool.

3:11:11All right.

3:11:12So cool.

3:11:13Well, I don't need your

3:11:14interpretation of it, but you

3:11:15need to stop giving false

3:11:16information. You don't have the

3:11:18floor, sir. Yeah, but stand

3:11:20attorney. Attorney. So with

3:11:22that being said. So the truth

3:11:24of the matter is, is that there

3:11:25are less rules at this moment

3:11:28than what we've spent the last

3:11:30hour and a half talking about.

3:11:32Yes. Yes, absolutely.

3:11:34Okay.

3:11:35So I just wanted to clarify

3:11:36that since we're putting stuff

3:11:37on the record. All right,

3:11:38there's a motion on the floor

3:11:39has been seconded. Councilman

3:11:40Hondros, I come to you for

3:11:42second round.

3:11:42Second.

3:11:42Thank you.

3:11:44I have a question for Attorney

3:11:45Pulliam. Attorney Pulliam, I

3:11:47know the Planning Commission

3:11:49holds public hearings for

3:11:51proposed tax amendments for

3:11:53chapter 30. The Udo. Um, if I

3:11:56heard correctly, you said they

3:11:58would need to hold a public

3:12:00hearing on a resolution for a

3:12:02moratorium.

3:12:04Uh, yes, sir. It's actually an

3:12:06ordinance.

3:12:07But does Planning Commission

3:12:09here text amendments for all

3:12:11ordinances in our court of

3:12:12ordinance, or just the Udo.

3:12:14This is chapter 30. It will be

3:12:16chapter 30.

3:12:23I just didn't realize the A

3:12:26resolution for a moratorium

3:12:29would would be tied into the

3:12:31Udo.

3:12:31It's an ordinance, sir.

3:12:37Right. But there's a lot of

3:12:38ordinances that are not in

3:12:39chapter 30, in our code of

3:12:41ordinances. Right. There's 29

3:12:42that aren't in the Udo, do

3:12:43they, here. Does the planning

3:12:45Commission here, public

3:12:46hearings on proposed text

3:12:48amendments to all 30 chapters?

3:12:51No, they're the development

3:12:54ordinances.

3:12:56Because we the reason I'm

3:12:58asking I'm not just for my

3:13:00edification. I'm not, um,

3:13:01trying to disagree with you a

3:13:03debate, but we made a change to

3:13:06a different sidewalk ordinance

3:13:08or a different roadway

3:13:08improvement ordinance. That was

3:13:10not chapter 30, and they didn't

3:13:11have to have a public hearing

3:13:13on that. I'm just trying to

3:13:14understand why Planning

3:13:16Commission would have to if we

3:13:17did a resolution for a

3:13:18moratorium, while it would have

3:13:20to go to the Planning

3:13:21Commission.

3:13:25Well, this is a development

3:13:28ordinance. I know you're

3:13:29talking about the moratorium

3:13:31resolution. Um, the planning

3:13:33Commission hears all of the Udo

3:13:38changes. Um, similar to this

3:13:42ordinance. So I'm not I'm I

3:13:44guess I'm not clear on where

3:13:46we're missing.

3:13:48So council. understanding at

3:13:50our last meeting, there was a

3:13:52motion passed by the majority

3:13:54of the council to move forward

3:13:55with the resolution for the

3:13:56moratorium, so on that to move

3:14:00that forward.

3:14:00Just on the resolution, not on

3:14:02on an ordinance you're asking

3:14:05about an ordinance or a

3:14:07resolution.

3:14:10Would a moratorium if this

3:14:13council passed a moratorium,

3:14:14would it be part of chapter 30?

3:14:17We would be passing an

3:14:19ordinance, a moratorium

3:14:21ordinance.

3:14:22Right. But would it be part of

3:14:24chapter 30? I thought I thought

3:14:25the planning Commission, maybe

3:14:26I misunderstood.

3:14:27I.

3:14:28Thought maybe I

3:14:28misunderstanding.

3:14:29I thought the Planning

3:14:30Commission only heard text

3:14:32revisions to chapter 30.

3:14:34That is correct. Or the

3:14:37ordinances that are related to

3:14:38development. The Udo.

3:14:41All right. So we're certain

3:14:44that it has to go to the

3:14:45planning Commission. So I guess

3:14:46my question is when is the

3:14:48soonest we can have the public

3:14:49hearing on a moratorium?

3:14:50Because I don't think it can

3:14:52wait till January.

3:14:54Yes.

3:14:56But I think she's saying I

3:14:57think it's adoption, a special

3:14:58meeting. She she's going to

3:15:00have something to seven. So you

3:15:01got the possibility.

3:15:02To do. I think we did a

3:15:03disservice to staff last

3:15:05meeting by asking them to bring

3:15:07this back today in seven days.

3:15:08So I don't want to do the same

3:15:09thing again and ask staff to

3:15:11bring back the resolution for a

3:15:15moratorium in seven days. If it

3:15:17doesn't give them adequate time

3:15:18to do that. But at the same

3:15:19time, if it needs to go to the

3:15:20Planning Commission, ideally we

3:15:23would get that in November. So

3:15:25go to planning Commission in

3:15:26December. If not, I mean, if if

3:15:30the if the moratorium, the

3:15:31resolution doesn't come to us

3:15:33for a public hearing. Um, at a

3:15:36work session in January, it

3:15:37won't go to planning until

3:15:38February. Right.

3:15:44Are you asking.?

3:15:46I'm in. the room.

3:15:48I just think.

3:15:49You need to not ask the room

3:15:50doctor Newton. I mean, what are

3:15:52you. What are you asking?

3:15:53Councilman Hondros, we need to.

3:15:55If we're saying that the more

3:15:56has to come back to the

3:15:57council, then it has to go to

3:15:59planning Commission, then come

3:16:00back to council. If it doesn't

3:16:01come back to us till January,

3:16:04then it goes to Planning

3:16:05Commission in February. It

3:16:06won't come back to us for

3:16:07adoption until March.

3:16:10Right. So.

3:16:13Ma'am, mayor Colvin.

3:16:14Yes, ma'am.

3:16:15I will clarify with staff about

3:16:19the Planning Commission piece.

3:16:21I believe that's where I'm

3:16:23misunderstanding. And we know

3:16:26we can come back and confirm

3:16:27that. But also it depends on if

3:16:29the Planning Commission meets

3:16:30in December. They meet, I think

3:16:33the third the third Tuesday.

3:16:37All right. So, uh, just to wrap

3:16:44all that up, you're going to

3:16:46confirm whether planning is a

3:16:47necessary next step or not.

3:16:50Yes, sir.

3:16:51You can.

3:16:51Have the. next step. You can

3:16:53you can have the the proposed

3:16:54ordinance. It has to have a

3:16:56public hearing. And you're

3:16:56going to confirm whether

3:16:58planning has to have theirs.

3:17:00Yes, sir. The question is, is

3:17:01whether it's a moratorium

3:17:03ordinance or a moratorium

3:17:04resolution. That is the

3:17:06question. If it is a moratorium

3:17:07ordinance, it needs to go, in

3:17:09my opinion, to the Planning

3:17:10Commission. If it's just a

3:17:11resolution, then it does not.

3:17:14Okay.

3:17:16Will they both stop permits

3:17:18from being acted on being

3:17:20processed by the city?

3:17:21No, sir. I mean, we still I

3:17:25think I'm understanding your

3:17:26question. If we don't, I mean,

3:17:28without a moratorium adopted,

3:17:32there's there's no other way to

3:17:34stop the development ordinance.

3:17:36So.

3:17:37I mean, ordinance adopted.

3:17:40Yeah.

3:17:42All right. Councilmember

3:17:43Hondros, you can follow up on

3:17:45that later. All right, so

3:17:48there's a motion. There was a

3:17:49second is discussion. Sean. Uh,

3:17:51Councilmember McMillan, you had

3:17:52your second final.

3:17:53Yes. Got a second? Thank you,

3:17:54Mr. Mayor. I thought it was

3:17:56interesting, Mr. Mayor, that

3:17:58you, um, opined that something

3:18:00is better than nothing in this,

3:18:02uh, in this, uh, sense. Words,

3:18:05words to that effect,

3:18:06something. But.

3:18:07Uh.

3:18:08Something worse is not better

3:18:10than something more thorough.

3:18:11I'm sorry. Got it. You have.

3:18:13To do the math.

3:18:14, and I. I hate that you would

3:18:16even try to make that that, uh,

3:18:20let me say, one of the reasons

3:18:21we're in this mess, y'all, is

3:18:23because we didn't listen to

3:18:24you. The the community. Y'all

3:18:26told us what the something

3:18:28should be as early as April.

3:18:30It's been almost 200 days since

3:18:33we first started getting from

3:18:34the community that we needed to

3:18:36put a moratorium in place. We

3:18:38could have been well on our way

3:18:40through a thorough process if

3:18:42we had listened to the

3:18:43community first. And I hope

3:18:45that we get it right tonight.

3:18:47Also, when it comes to

3:18:48something instead of nothing,

3:18:50uh, a member of this, this

3:18:52board, uh, as early as last

3:18:55fall, started going around to

3:18:56the community and saying

3:18:58there's something that we need

3:18:59in Fayetteville is hyperscale

3:19:01data centers. He started making

3:19:03the case that that would bring

3:19:04a tax base, and we started

3:19:07asking the questions of what

3:19:08harm could that bring? And the

3:19:10same people who are ignoring

3:19:13the harm are pushing these UDL

3:19:15text amendments tonight. And

3:19:17that is worth saying, as we're

3:19:19putting on the record, and it's

3:19:21worth for you guys, knowing as

3:19:22a public that the voice for

3:19:25prudence, the voices for

3:19:26wisdom, the voice for moving

3:19:28this, moving through this in a

3:19:29way that protects the community

3:19:31has stood oppositional to the

3:19:34voice that's inviting the data

3:19:36center industry into

3:19:38Fayetteville. And I hope that

3:19:40our our votes align tonight so

3:19:42that a majority of us say that

3:19:44we want to protect the

3:19:45community. Uh, but I definitely

3:19:46want to respond to.

3:19:47Like you said. All right. Well,

3:19:48I'm glad you did, because that

3:19:50response deserves a response.

3:19:52So at at the end of.

3:19:54It.

3:19:55The professionals, the

3:19:58gentleman with the law degree,

3:19:59the director of Development

3:20:02services, who's been in this

3:20:03business for a very long time,

3:20:05told the truth. Regardless of

3:20:08what you want to say. As a

3:20:09talking point, he told you that

3:20:12right now we're more vulnerable

3:20:14with what we have than this.

3:20:16That Doctor Newton, uh,

3:20:18Attorney to, uh, Theresa, where

3:20:21is he? Okay. Again, just for

3:20:25the record, because it's on the

3:20:26record right now, is what is

3:20:30presented in this package more

3:20:33restrictive or less restrictive

3:20:35than what's on the books now?

3:20:37More restrictive, which is what

3:20:40the attorney said. So we're not

3:20:43going to opine on on

3:20:44falsehoods, since you want to

3:20:46say it. It's on the record that

3:20:48the the professional people who

3:20:50have the credentials to back it

3:20:52up said that this is more

3:20:53restrictive. So it is not

3:20:55something that's better than

3:20:56nothing. What's what's

3:20:57happening is, you know, since

3:20:59you since you brought it up,

3:21:01you know what we need to know?

3:21:03I think it also requires

3:21:06transparency as to whose agenda

3:21:08we're working for. You know, if

3:21:09if you have.

3:21:11If you have.

3:21:12If if you have, as you talked

3:21:15about it and, and not sure who

3:21:17it is, but if you have an

3:21:19employer who, who, whose

3:21:21position you represent, you

3:21:23need to tell that versus the

3:21:25constituents that we that we

3:21:26swore to represent. So at the

3:21:28end of it, that's the second

3:21:30round. I wanted to respond to

3:21:32some of that, but we've heard

3:21:33from the attorneys on the

3:21:34official record that what's

3:21:36before us is more restrictive

3:21:37as we move toward that. And in

3:21:40the 200 days, there has not

3:21:41been a data center. So whether

3:21:42it's a moratorium or not, 200

3:21:44days in what we've done has

3:21:47worked to prevent something

3:21:49from coming into our community

3:21:51that did not have rules around.

3:21:53So with that, we'll call for.

3:21:54The vote.

3:21:55On strategy.

3:21:58Mayor Pro Tem, can you restate

3:22:00the motion, please? Mayor Pro

3:22:04Tem, can you restate the

3:22:06motion, please?

3:22:09Council. The motion was to

3:22:10adopt the text amendments as

3:22:13presented and to have them come

3:22:15in effect of the scheduled date

3:22:17for the next public forum on

3:22:18the moratorium.

3:22:21For to have the close again.

3:22:24The same date as the public

3:22:26hearing.

3:22:33Is clear. No, it's not.

3:22:36Because you said.

3:22:36Two different.

3:22:37It has to be after the public

3:22:39hearing, which will be the same

3:22:41date just after the public

3:22:43hearing.

3:22:46The two arguments don't jive.

3:22:48If we're saying we're putting

3:22:49protections in place.

3:22:51I'll make the time.

3:22:52I'll make a plan and just say,

3:22:54after the public hearing, is

3:22:56that clarification?

3:22:58But if that public hearings in

3:22:59three months, we're still

3:23:00unprotected for three months.

3:23:01That is correct.

3:23:06All right. Thank you. Yeah.

3:23:13All right.

3:23:14So it's.

3:23:15So it's been repeated, I guess

3:23:18the final version of it. And

3:23:19that was a second by you see.

3:23:21All right, all right, all

3:23:23right, counselor, look to you

3:23:24for your votes on it.

3:23:27Malik. Thanks. Second. Yeah.

3:23:34How are we? Miss. All right,

3:23:38all right. Motion carries those

3:23:40vote opposition. McMillan.

3:23:41Ferguson. Green and Jones. All

3:23:44right. Um, Councilman Davis,

3:23:46you had, um, the item you

3:23:48wanted to move to the work

3:23:49session?

3:23:49Yes, sir. If we can move 10.01

3:23:53to January work session,

3:23:54please. All right.

3:23:55Uh, management, uh, City

3:23:59Manager 10.01. Is that work

3:24:01session?

3:24:02All right, all right. Thank you

3:24:03so much.

3:24:09Shame, shame, shame.

3:24:12My bitch.

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