2026-10-27 - Joint Public Safety and Health and Human Services

00:00Um, my name is uh Jerry Martin, city

00:02council for W 7 and the chair of the

00:05public safety committee. I'm also joined

00:07by this is a joint meeting of the public

00:10safety committee as well as the health

00:14um and human services committee chaired

00:16by councelor Santelo. Thank you for uh

00:18sharing this with me. We are also joined

00:20with uh councelor Walsh um as well as

00:23councelor Fenton remotely. Um, before we

00:26get started, I just like to have

00:27everyone, you know, go around the room,

00:28introduce yourself, and say hello, and

00:30just so people at home watching know,

00:32>> great.

00:33>> What's going on? So, and we'll start

00:34with our commissioner for health and

00:36human services, Colton Harris. Thank you

00:37for joining us.

00:38>> Thank you. Um, Helen Carlton Harris,

00:40commissioner, division of health and

00:41human services for the city of

00:43Springfield.

00:44>> Adri Walsh, city council at large.

00:48>> Becky Ple. I live at 70 Belleview Avenue

00:50in Springfield. I'm a retired

00:51pediatrician and I'm on the Springfield

00:53climate justice coalition.

00:56>> I am Talil Riny. I am the environmental

00:58justice organizer with Arise for Social

01:00Justice. I am also a member of the

01:02Springfield Climate Justice Coalition.

01:04>> That's great. I also see that we are

01:06joined by councelor Govan um via Zoom.

01:08Thank you for joining us, counselor. Um

01:11and all those, you know, residents and

01:13other interested parties joining us via

01:14Zoom. Would you care to introduce

01:16yourselves as well?

01:17I'm Elizabeth Alysa Torres, occupational

01:20therapist, member of the Springfield

01:22Public Health Council.

01:23>> Okay, great.

01:25>> And I'm Charlie Holmes. Um, born and

01:28raised Springfield, Massachusetts, proud

01:30member of

01:32and born free service.

01:36>> Great.

01:38And then I see we're also joined by

01:40Maryanne Baker. Thank you. Thank you for

01:42joining us, Miss Baker.

01:43>> She's a member of the uh public health

01:45council.

01:45>> Okay. Okay. And I also see we're also

01:47joined by uh Miss Brown uh from the East

01:50Springfield Neighborhood Council.

01:52>> Oh, and Katie Town.

01:56>> Also, finally, we're also joined by um

01:59our president of the city council, Miss

02:02Tracy Whitfield. Thank you, counselor,

02:04for joining us, Mad President. Um so

02:06yeah, as we all know the the history and

02:10the um the long uh battle going on with

02:13the uh the biomass plant kind of in the

02:16East Springfield area and on the borders

02:18of war 2 and 8. A lot of the you know

02:21pending, you know, litigation and

02:24conflict, you know, really arose before,

02:27you know, my time on the council. So I

02:28would be interested to hear from, you

02:30know, our neighborhood councils who are

02:32involved. maybe councelor Fenton believe

02:34councelor Govan's part of that battle as

02:36well just kind of like maybe a rundown

02:38for those who might not know the issue

02:40um just to let them know at home

02:43>> staff

02:45you want to sit up here

02:47>> go on floor is yours

02:48>> sure thank you so much um I just want to

02:51chime in um this biomass plant um we

02:56started fighting it um at a rise for

02:59social justice when Michael and Vuzy

03:02there

03:03>> was here

03:05>> and

03:09>> um it's been a long a long time fighting

03:13this. We thought it was dead.

03:15>> Um I know that they have been denied

03:17some permits.

03:20>> Um they keep getting they keep unmuting

03:22themselves.

03:25um um we you know the permits had been

03:28denied and then all of a sudden they

03:30came back up. So I I I wanted to talk

03:34today about what is left to do. Um I

03:37spoke to state representative uh Ramos

03:39the other day and I asked him

03:41specifically about it and he said

03:43something about putting in some

03:45legislation that was going to kill it

03:47once and for all. I'm hoping that that

03:50is true. Um but I don't know, right?

03:53because it's been around for so long and

03:54it sounds like the permits that they

03:56have were kind of reinstated. Um, so

03:59it's a little bit confusing, but I'm

04:01truly truly grateful for the public

04:02health institute um for the work that

04:04they're doing that they're continuing to

04:06do that they've been doing for a very

04:08long time. Um, and keeping us informed

04:11too because you know I as a city

04:13councelor I don't know everything. Um,

04:16and when I hear about these things, I

04:18really want to step up and make sure

04:20that I make myself available to um, at

04:23least voice my concerns and to make sure

04:25that um, action and activity is done to

04:28make sure that we don't have to continue

04:30fighting for this. So, thank you, Mr.

04:32Chair.

04:33>> Thank you. Thank you, Council. Could I

04:35just introduce you to Dr. Jeffrey

04:37Scaven, who's on the public health

04:39council. I just want to make sure.

04:40>> Hi, doctor. Thank you for joining us

04:42after.

04:43>> Hi, Dr. Scaven. I've known Dr. Scaven

04:45for a long time, too.

04:50>> Councelor Ben, would you care to uh

04:52>> Yeah, I mean I think uh I would be happy

04:55to um uh with everybody's indulgence

04:59talk a little bit about the history and

05:01uh councelor Govan's right. It's been a

05:03a battle that's been ongoing for a very

05:05long time. Um you know, I

05:09if it's okay with you, Mr. Mr. Chair,

05:10I'll just spend a couple minutes telling

05:12you about, you know, the the history

05:13from my perspective.

05:16>> Yeah, please. Please.

05:17>> So, original site was permitted by

05:21special permit around 2008 2009, I think

05:26it was 2008, uh by the city council back

05:28when it was uh before we had ward

05:30representation.

05:32Um and there were some opponents to it,

05:35but not enough to to stop the permit. uh

05:39ward representation comes in 2010. Um I

05:43was one of those ward representatives.

05:46Um we very shortly thereafter started

05:49working on opposition uh working with

05:52opposition to the project. There were a

05:54number of hearings, environmental

05:56justice coalition, Michael An's group

05:58and rise for social justice, the public

06:00health institute, so many others. And um

06:03so the first thing we did was we uh

06:07we appealed the uh issuance of the

06:11building permit. Tried to say that they

06:13needed a special permit. We lost that

06:15appeal. Back then we weren't getting um

06:18city resources towards the fight. So we

06:22uh we put on the city council agenda a

06:26proposal to revoke the permit. We

06:28revoked that permit in 2011 or 2012.

06:33That decision was appealed. Um the city

06:37uh for a period of time refused to

06:40defend our action to um to revoke that

06:44permit. And so uh for a very brief

06:47period of time, I represented um the

06:50council

06:52>> as proono attorney and city councelor.

06:57uh on that appeal defending us until I

07:00could find us.

07:03>> We got

07:05>> Miss Baker, can you please remain muted

07:07on on Zoom? You keep on muting and it's

07:10giving a lot of feedback. So, just you

07:12don't mind

07:14staying on mute. Thank you.

07:17>> Much better. Thank you, Mr. Chair. So

07:19anyways, I I could go on about this for

07:21hours, but long story short, we we ended

07:23up recruiting um a couple of

07:26institutions to help. We got I Pat

07:29Marky, who was a former city counselor,

07:31also an attorney, represented us on a

07:33proono basis for a limited amount of

07:35time. Then um reached out to

07:39Conservation Law Foundation and got some

07:41assistance from them and their legal

07:42counsel. They're on their now. Back then

07:44it was Sue Reid. there's they're they're

07:46on their third executive director since

07:48this project started, but they filled in

07:50as proono successor council. Um, and

07:55saving everybody the, you know, the the

07:58legal um histrionics of what happened

08:02since then, there were a number of cases

08:04and a number of appeals. Uh, it's gone

08:07on for the better part of the last uh 17

08:12years.

08:13and the public health inst uh council

08:16was involved. Um Dr. Scavern has been

08:20involved in this from the beginning. It

08:22to like to go back in the time machine

08:24is really takes a lot. But the most

08:28recent case was a um an appeal of the

08:34city's decision to deny building permits

08:38based on expiration of prior permits.

08:41And uh that appeal ended up over a

08:44number of years making its way through

08:46the court system and we won at the land

08:49court level. We lost at the appeals

08:52court level. They actually held the they

08:54held the hearing at Western New England

08:55University and um after arguments we

08:58lost and we tried to appeal that to the

09:01Supreme Judicial Court and they um did

09:04not grant Cert to hear the case. So, so

09:07the appeals court instructed the ZBA who

09:10earlier this year reinstated uh the

09:13building permits. So, as of you know,

09:16today those building permits that go

09:18back 12 years are active and unexpired.

09:23Uh they are not the only permits though

09:26that are required to proceed. Um there's

09:29air quality permits from the state which

09:32I'm not as involved in. There's federal

09:34permitting and we've had success in

09:36working with Senator Marky's office on

09:39um trying to to fight to stop those

09:42federal permits. And then there's also

09:43the tax credit piece which um you know

09:47our former colleagues on the council,

09:48Senators Gomez and Representative Ramos,

09:51have been really helpful at trying to uh

09:54assist us in changing the tax incentives

09:56for this program to to make it uh not

09:59economically viable. As councelor Govan

10:01said a little bit earlier, um the only

10:04other thing I would add is that while

10:05they have active building permits, um I

10:08don't believe that that would permit

10:11them under the city zoning code to

10:13proceed. It's it's been long been my

10:16contention that they still need a

10:17special permit based on the changing uh

10:21changing ordinance in 2013.

10:24More histrionics that then councelor

10:26Sheay helped helped to uh get passed.

10:29Thank you for that effort back then,

10:30Ken. Um, and

10:34that we're not at the point where we

10:37need to particularly we haven't had to

10:40particularly force the issue or worry

10:42about that because u you know to my

10:45knowledge there's no activity on the

10:46site and they still have the federal and

10:48state hurdles in terms of environmental

10:50and tax issues to deal with. So,

10:53uh, fully committed to opposing, uh, the

10:56project and in the interest of air

10:59quality and happy that we've got such a

11:01broad coalition on the council and

11:04people who have come and gone and helped

11:06over the years consistently

11:08um, to get us to the point where um, you

11:12know, that the project is not built and

11:15hopefully never will be.

11:17>> Awesome. All right. Thank you, Councelor

11:18Fenton. Um, I do also want to add that

11:20we have counselors uh, Dava and Hurst

11:24joining us.

11:24>> Glad to be here

11:25>> as well. So I also, attorney Shay, thank

11:28you for joining us. So I just want to,

11:30you know, clarify a point that councelor

11:31Fencson just raised and I just want to

11:33double check with you. So we it would

11:35require a special permit before us. So

11:38they have to come before the city

11:39council for a vote as their next steps

11:42before any sort of project goes forth.

11:44Is that correct?

11:45>> That's my position. I know that that's

11:47not the position that they would share

11:49and um you know if we ever got to that

11:52point then we'd have to hash it out.

11:54>> Are they saying that due to their

11:55current building permits that they

11:56they're good to go right now?

11:59>> Yes.

12:02>> Okay. Commissioner Harris, I just I'm

12:05also want callers, excuse me. I also

12:06want to hear about your kind of history

12:08with with uh dealing with with this

12:10entity.

12:11>> Thank you. I'm going to uh let Dr.

12:13Scavenvern speak for the public health

12:15council, but um I brought with me a

12:18letter that I wrote uh to the EAP in

12:212011 and it says uh the area that this

12:25project is located in includes a

12:28sensitive population that suffered

12:30disproportionate health impacts as

12:33indicated in the comments from the

12:36Massachusetts Department of Public

12:37Health Bureau of Environmental Health

12:40during the MPA process.

12:43The health outcomes for the Springfield

12:45area indicate that this area should be

12:51um designated as a climate as a just

12:55yeah climate justice social uh area and

12:59should um not definitely have this kind

13:02of um plant built in it. Now I wrote

13:05this in 2011 and I wrote it to um Susan.

13:09Michael Condan was the uh regional

13:12director. Susan Condan was at the state

13:14department of public health, Bureau of

13:16Epidemiology. I was just want to put

13:18that out there to say how long we have

13:20been talking about the potential impacts

13:24of this plan and Dr. Scabron has been on

13:27the front lines with us with me. You're

13:30the only one left with me, aren't you?

13:32Is there

13:38>> So, Dr. Gavin, if you want to just share

13:40your uh thoughts.

13:41>> So, so from the public health council

13:43point of view and from a medical point

13:46of view,

13:48um and this does not take into account

13:52and does not really answer the legal

13:55questions. It's a it's purely what is

13:58the medical situation and the medical

14:00situation is

14:03that it is an absurdity to build a wood

14:08burning plant in the center of a high

14:12asthma respiratory disease

14:15neighborhood. It is an absurdity. And

14:18our high respiratory disease

14:20neighborhood in Springfield is virtually

14:23the entire city plus parts of Chapi and

14:28and and our surrounding towns.

14:32No one who was interested in anything

14:34other than making a buck would consider

14:39going forward with this right now.

14:43What happened in the past and why it got

14:45started

14:47was in the in the striving for energy

14:52independence and clean air quote

14:56wood burning biomass plants were

14:59determined uh a good safe alternative

15:04form of energy. It wasn't oil. That's

15:07what they were saying. That's how

15:09everything was leaning.

15:12In about about three years after the

15:152011 actions,

15:18it was take biomass was taken off the

15:21the the clean energy list and it is no

15:26longer even a question of that. So there

15:29is no reason whatsoever

15:32for there to be a wood burning plant.

15:35And if you look at the oil situation, I

15:38mean it

15:39if

15:41In the best of circumstances, if

15:43everything were to go just as

15:47uh the the most optimistic people would

15:50have it, this would be a mild to

15:54moderate

15:56attack on respiratory health.

15:59If there were anything to go wrong,

16:05which going wrong is the normal state of

16:07affairs. And if there was anything that

16:10would go wrong, it could be an absolute

16:13catastrophe

16:14for us, for our city.

16:18And it seems to me that any company that

16:21wants still to put a plant there is

16:26acting totally against the best interest

16:29of the people of Springfield and should

16:31be held responsible for that.

16:34And I don't understand all the workings

16:36and connections, but um you know, Palmer

16:41Renewable Energy and Palmer Paving are

16:43not are connected. I understand they've

16:47been bought by someone else, but they

16:49are connected and they are and and

16:53companies, for example, that would put

16:56something like that in Springfield ought

16:58not get city contracts to do other

17:02stuff. We should hold people responsible

17:04and we should move on that. I mean that

17:08is what we have available. The court

17:10stuff

17:12is in our hands. Uh councelor Fenton

17:15went a long way to stop the court from

17:18doing things yet still at the end of the

17:21day

17:22it's alive. And so there is the legal

17:26aspects but there is the the activist

17:29aspects. And we should not allow a

17:32company

17:34that would put that kind of plant where

17:37it's planned to have city contracts in

17:40any in any connection and that and we

17:43should go with that.

17:44>> Yeah. I mean to your point I mean it's

17:47entirely tonedeaf to the city of

17:49Springfield. I mean being

17:51>> the asthma capital for a very long time

17:53having pollution like that is is a

17:56totally tonedeaf and

17:58>> and totally insensitive uh proposal to

18:00the city.

18:03>> Yeah. Thank you. Um I do want to point

18:05everybody's attention real quick. It

18:06looks like there was some pictures sent

18:08in the uh in the um Zoom chat here of

18:12some pollution, some air quality going

18:14on. I don't know if I can make that

18:15bigger.

18:16>> That was that was me. Um I'm Dr.

18:18Elizabeth Alisa Torres. I'm an

18:20occupational therapist. I'm a

18:21Springfield resident and I happened to

18:23be driving to work yesterday and I take

18:25291. So I was at the corner of Paige

18:27where O'Brien's Corner is and I just

18:30could not help myself but to take a

18:32picture of what I saw coming out. This

18:36is already happening now, right? So just

18:38like the thought of doubling this or

18:40tripling this is just I just can't

18:44imagine what it would do. especially in

18:47the Pioneer Valley where all the

18:48pollution and all the air gets stuck and

18:51it just sits there. And so I see

18:53humanity on the other side when they are

18:55dealing with the aftermath of

18:57respiratory disease, they are dealing

18:59with asthma and things of that nature.

19:02And it's very difficult to to help

19:05somebody through something like that

19:07when they're gasping, they can't

19:09breathe, and they need to do what they

19:10need to do to live their lives. So I I

19:12wanted to share these photos from

19:14yesterday morning.

19:15>> Awesome. Thank you. Thank you, doctor.

19:19>> Uh, councelor Fenton, you have your hand

19:20raised.

19:22>> Thank you. I just want to two clarifying

19:24points. I appreciate Dr. Torres's um uh

19:28pictures. Uh, but I I want to make sure

19:30it's clear that that those aren't those

19:33pictures don't depict um pollution from

19:36the biomass facility because that it's

19:38not it's not currently there and

19:40permitted,

19:41>> right,

19:41>> to proceed. that would I don't know

19:44exactly what that is, but it looked to

19:45me like that may have something to do

19:46with the asphalt manufacturing plant,

19:48right,

19:49>> that they still have at that site,

19:50>> right?

19:51>> Um, which is the problem and should be

19:54should be acknowledged, but I just

19:55wanted to clarify that. And the other

19:56thing is on Dr. Gavin's point about the

19:59city contracts. I I'm not aware of any

20:01city contracts that the um I'd be happy

20:05to be corrected if that was the case,

20:06but I I'm not aware of any city

20:08contracts that the uh that the company

20:11that's involved in the biomass facility

20:13has with the city or with other related

20:16parties in this area. as a part of this

20:19uh saga. The company that was originally

20:23the backers of the facility was Palmer

20:26Paving and they do have a very large

20:29portfolio of um municipal and state

20:33contracts across the Commonwealth, but

20:35but they divested control from the

20:38Palmer Renewable Energy side of this

20:40deal many many years ago. And to the

20:44best of my knowledge, the owners that

20:45are um affiliated uh with that project

20:50are not the same and uh under common

20:54ownership with the people who do the

20:55paving companying. Just

20:58thought that that was worth

21:00acknowledging.

21:01>> Yeah. Thank you, Councelor Fenton. And

21:03to Dr. Alicia Torres's point, I think

21:05she was saying what was and I just saw

21:07your comment, but what was already there

21:10is already, you know, polluting enough.

21:12this would be like astronomical host and

21:14really make it ex exponential. So I I I

21:17take your point doctor and thank you

21:19councelor Fentton for those

21:20clarifications. Dr. If I may, I did see

21:22councelor Dava had his hand up and

21:24councelor Santanelo. Councelor Davlin

21:26did you or did you question? I saw

21:29>> I I did but I think uh councelor Phantom

21:32was kind enough to clarify for me. So we

21:34got in the picture that doc the good

21:36doctor took um Dr. Torres. Uh so that is

21:40not coming from any wood any um

21:45any uh uh biomass related burning.

21:48That's more was the asphalt burning.

21:50Correct.

21:51>> Correct.

21:52>> Okay.

21:54>> Hello. I see your hands raised.

21:55>> Yes. Thank you so much. Can you hear me?

21:57Okay.

21:57>> Yes sir.

21:58>> I want to thank everyone for having this

22:01very very important meeting today. I

22:03want to thank councelor Govan for

22:05requesting this meeting. Th this project

22:08is like Frankenstein's monster. It's

22:11alive and it won't die. And this is the

22:14absolute worst place you can put it. The

22:17worst city as far as asthma's concerned

22:19where you can put it. And anybody that

22:22suffers from asthma, it's like a fish

22:24out of water. Those old commercials

22:26where you can't breathe. It's the worst

22:28feeling in the world. So there's no way

22:31that I'm going to fight this as hard as

22:33I can. The way I understand it, and

22:35Michael maybe you can correct me, it

22:37seems the technology in this industry

22:40has changed and it might not be

22:42economically feasible for this plant. Is

22:45that not correct?

22:52Well, I might be an expert on the on the

22:54history and the legal side of this, but

22:56I'm definitely not an expert on the

22:57medicine or the technology. I I think

22:59that what's made it economically less

23:02viable is the changes that have been

23:04made to the tax code and the incentives

23:06that are provided to this, not so much

23:08the technology. I think when this was

23:10originally done, um it started, it was

23:13going to be actually construction and

23:14demolition debris that was first burned,

23:17um including painted materials and

23:20materials with nails. And ultimately,

23:22the law was changed to not permit that.

23:25And there's been a lot of other uh tax

23:27code changes over the years that have

23:28made it less economically attractive um

23:31for them to do the deal, but I don't

23:33think it has to do with the technology.

23:34I think it has to do with the state and

23:35federal law changes.

23:37>> Thank you.

23:39>> Um so, thank you everybody. I I do have

23:42to be transparent and be mindful. I do I

23:44am doing this in my lunch break. So I do

23:45have I only have so many more um minutes

23:48left but I do want to ask um attorney

23:51Sheay Attorney Sheay what what so like

23:53what is our real like next steps in

23:55fighting this thing? I it appears that

23:58myself included as well as my colleagues

24:00on the council we are pretty committed

24:01to fighting this thing. We don't think

24:03this is an appropriate use of the land

24:05or an appropriate for u facility for the

24:08city of Springfield. So is it coming

24:10before us for a permit? what else do we

24:13need to do to prepare ourselves what

24:14what are the next you know governmental

24:17and procedural steps um before us and

24:20and what what's the best course of

24:21action for us?

24:23>> Well, I think off the top of my head,

24:25can you hear me? I guess off the top of

24:27my head, I'd say first off, we the city

24:30controls the permitting process. Um and

24:33I don't know if there's anything we can

24:35do from a zoning side to make any

24:37changes there. Um, but anything deeper

24:42than that, I'd really want to get the

24:43city solicitor because he has a bigger

24:45view of this than I do. Uh, but we

24:47certainly have options that we can take

24:50legally to uh, prevent this from

24:52happening. Okay.

24:56>> Okay. So again, so really the next step

24:58for us is is there any idea of when you

25:01know Palmer Renewable Energy plans to

25:03come before the council for a vote or a

25:06special permit? is cuz if if councelor

25:08Fenton is saying that they they're go

25:11they have the go-ahhead in their mind

25:12they're ready to go is there any kind of

25:14like TTRO temporary restraining order

25:17any injunctive relief that we as a city

25:19can pursue while that process

25:22>> they have some coming up they have some

25:25dates coming up that they're um

25:28scheduled to go before the court so

25:30>> November 9th

25:31>> November 9th and there was a December

25:32date

25:33>> December 8th for the state air quality

25:35>> so there are two hearings that are going

25:37to be held within the next couple of

25:39months. Um that it would be important

25:41for us to pay attention to.

25:43>> Yes.

25:43>> Right.

25:44>> Okay. Great. And then Council Govan, I

25:46see your hand is raised, but before um I

25:48give the floor to you, I I also kind of

25:50want to ask, I know you work um in

25:52two-step or very closely with U.

25:55Representative Ramos. I I was wondering

25:57if you had any more background or

25:58information on that legislation that he

26:00and Senator Gomez

26:02um plan on on filing and if that if that

26:06really could, you know, have the

26:07potential to stop this whole project in

26:09its tracks.

26:10>> Thank you, Mr. Chair. I don't have any

26:13specific details, but I'm committed to

26:15getting that information for the council

26:17as well as the public health institute.

26:19Um, and I just wanted to agree with uh

26:22what Dr. Scavenvern said about any

26:25contracts that are related to this

26:28company in the city, we need to possibly

26:31stop working with them or find a way to

26:34u make sure that they don't think that

26:37we're going to allow this to come into

26:39our city. Um because I don't see, you

26:42know, Palmer, Massachusetts has um a lot

26:47of land out there. Why isn't this being

26:49done in Palmer? Right? Not that it

26:50should be done anywhere, but why isn't

26:53it being done in Long Meadow or, you

26:56know, Wilberham? Um, so my concern is

26:59that we are sort of um,

27:03you know, giving people permission to

27:05come into our city and do these kind of

27:07things and then we're incentivizing them

27:10by giving them other other types of

27:12contracts, whether it's paving um,

27:15streets or doing other kind of work. So,

27:18I would just would like for us to maybe

27:20investigate some of that those contracts

27:22and find out who really owns those

27:25companies um and maybe stop

27:27incentivizing them because apparently

27:30they think that they can come into

27:31Springfield and do you know whatever

27:33they want. But I am committed to get the

27:35information from um State Representative

27:37Ramos and Senator Gomez.

27:39>> That would be that'd be great. Council

27:40>> go councelor Goan. It is the public

27:43health council not the public health

27:45institute. That's a different

27:48Thank you, Commissioner. I work with

27:50both of them and they're both wonderful.

27:52So,

27:53>> thank you for that clarification. I

27:55appreciate it. Thank you.

27:57>> Um, attorney Shay, do you know what

27:58those court I see you have the November

28:009th court date and whatnot. Do you know

28:02what exactly those are scheduled for?

28:04Like what type of hearing?

28:05>> I do not. I can find out for you, but I

28:08do not know off the top of my head.

28:10>> Please do. And is the city of

28:11Springfield, are we an entity in that

28:13lawsuit? Are we a party in that lawsuit

28:14or no?

28:16>> I don't have that information either,

28:17but I'll get it for you.

28:19>> Counc I see you shaking your head. No.

28:21Do you have any more information?

28:22>> Do you know?

28:23>> I don't believe that we are.

28:24>> Okay. Do you know what those scheduled

28:26dates are for as an attorney?

28:28>> I do not. I do not.

28:29>> Okay. I just I'd be curious to see

28:31because again I I would want that legal

28:35reinforcement, you know, again like a

28:37restraining or a temporary restraining

28:38order or injunctive relief or something

28:40like that if they do intend to build

28:42this. if they think they're okay to do

28:43that like that's it's clearly not and we

28:45we want to be able to stop that. Doctor,

28:47I I appreciate your

28:48>> two sort of sidelines. One is

28:52a great amount of the pollution from

28:55this plant, not half but a great amount

28:59is going to be every day with four huge

29:03trucks

29:05an hour bringing debris to the plant.

29:11big trucks with trailers that are filled

29:14with with wood coming off to 291 and

29:18going to the plant. That's a big

29:20pollution as well as traffic problem

29:24that is going to exist. So, we all need

29:27to keep that in mind. The other thing

29:29is, and I don't know where this stands,

29:31but uh not too long ago, President Trump

29:35wrote an executive order

29:38saying that air quality is not a problem

29:43for power producers. You eliminating air

29:47quality as um something that they need

29:52to worry about if they're producing

29:54energy. I don't know the status of that

29:56or where it went, but he did do an

29:59executive order for that, which is a

30:02little terrifying.

30:04>> Yeah.

30:06>> Well, thank you. Thank you for sharing

30:07that, Council Councelor Walsh.

30:10>> Thank you, Council Hart, and thanks for

30:11having having this having this meeting.

30:13You know, it's my sense that I can't

30:16speak for everybody. It would seem to me

30:18the majority of the council shares your

30:20concerns and would like to play a role

30:22in this. But you raised the question, is

30:24it coming before the council and I think

30:26that's what's important to find out so

30:29we could support your concerns. Where

30:32where is our role and is there anything

30:34left for us to do? We've done so much in

30:36the past,

30:37>> you know, going back many years,

30:40including hiring the proono, lawyer, and

30:42so forth and so on. And I really thought

30:45this was a dead issue. So it's

30:48surprising to me it's come and it's

30:50disturbing and surprising it's coming

30:51back up. But what will and what role can

30:55we actually pay play

30:58>> but so it looks like

31:00>> looks like we will be voting on the

31:01permit aspect of that which is which is

31:03good. So it looks

31:04>> scheduled at all.

31:05>> Not scheduled at the moment, but

31:07according to councelor Fenton, it looks

31:08like Palmer Energy just feels like

31:11they're just have the okay to just to do

31:13it anyway. So that that's kind of where

31:14my my concerns, but I'd like to open the

31:17floor up to some of the members of the

31:18public who

31:19>> who have joined us today. Again, I am

31:20I'm running a little late on time, but I

31:22I want to make sure you all have your

31:24>> But we also want to thank you for

31:25scheduling us. We really appreciate, you

31:27know, hearing us. Um and I think it

31:29sounds like we really all in agreement

31:31that this is the wrong thing from the

31:32city. problem I as I see it is legally

31:35they're still marching forward and they

31:37are waiting for a few things like the

31:38air quality

31:40>> yeah air quality permit

31:42>> a permit that's that's the December the

31:43November December is uh the appeals

31:46court um uh their November and December

31:49court dates are about this you know air

31:51quality thing so Palmer uh is still

31:55awaiting a few things but if those pass

31:57and we'd hate to wait until that you

31:59know they'll keep moving forward unless

32:00we have a plan I don't know if you want

32:03to want to share something.

32:05>> Oh, no. Well, when there's I, you know,

32:08questions around what can we do, I

32:10wonder if there's opportunity for the

32:12city council to write testimony um to

32:14these air quality um hearings in

32:18November and December um or statements

32:20in opposition to to these permits moving

32:23forward at the state level. Um and then

32:25there's you know not just looking at

32:27this plant and this project in

32:29particular but what uh in the city uh do

32:32we have uh to to protect against other

32:35industrial projects coming in that will

32:37are looking to pollute our air and our

32:39waters and thinking about how the city

32:41can move some of those policies forward

32:44so that we don't have to go through

32:45another zombie project for 20 years.

32:47>> Yeah. We sort of wonder whether there

32:49are health regulations that the Health

32:51and Human Services here could put in

32:53place to prevent us having to go through

32:55this again because, you know, it's it's

32:57going to come up again. Even if we win

32:59this one,

33:00>> it's only a matter of time and it would

33:01be nice to have things in place that

33:02would prevent this kind of construction

33:05in our city.

33:06>> I know the council is happy, the public

33:08health council is happy to work with

33:09you. I'm wondering, and this is just me

33:12wondering, can the city council do a

33:14resolution? It may not be before you

33:16now, but can you do a resolution um that

33:19passes that outlines the harmful effects

33:23that we believe that this is going to

33:25bring to the city of Springfield based

33:28on the environmental justice, climate

33:30justice, and particularly the health

33:33status indices of some of our residents

33:35as far as asthma rates are concerned.

33:38So, that's a question. I know the

33:40permit's not before you, but can you do

33:42a resolution at this point? I kind of

33:45think we've done something like that in

33:46the past, but it could come back up

33:49again. Obviously,

33:50>> yes,

33:51>> I remember something like that.

33:53>> Uh, Council Govan, I'll I see your hand

33:55is raised. I'll give you the the final

33:56word.

33:57>> Thank you. I just got some information

33:59from um State Rep. Ramos who said that

34:01he passed a bill eliminating biomass

34:04from being defined under clean energy.

34:07>> So, as far as the state is concerned,

34:09there's biomass is not clean energy. And

34:12then earlier this year, he he's um

34:14passed a bill eliminating the state

34:17subsidy for biomass energy. Uh one was

34:21part of the energy affordability bill,

34:24which that is still in conference

34:25committee, which to um Commissioner

34:28Carlton Harris's point, we might pass a

34:30resolution u maybe supporting that bill

34:33so that when um maybe the governor will

34:36be more um apt to sign it. Um so that's

34:39something that we can do. So, those are

34:41the two updates from the state um work

34:44that they've been doing on this. Thank

34:45you, Mr. Chair.

34:47>> You're very welcome, Council. Thank you

34:48for all your work on this. Councelor

34:50Fenton, I see your hands raised. I'll

34:51give you the final where I saw you stuck

34:53it in there.

34:53>> The final final the final final. Yeah.

34:56>> So,

34:57>> thanks. Sorry, I know I know we got to

34:59go. Um, I was just going to say that,

35:01um, if the council wishes, and I think,

35:04uh, council president Whitfield had to

35:06drop, but we could hold the committee of

35:09the whole and discuss some of this in

35:10executive session, some of the, um,

35:13issues that may involve litigation

35:17strategy. I have certainly some ideas

35:20about that. Um, but I I would I would

35:23not personally recommend doing a

35:26resolution regarding opposition at this

35:28time because if they do end up um

35:31proceeding with some type of special

35:32permit process, we need to uh be

35:35impartial in in that process. But I

35:37would I would recommend as a next step,

35:39Mr. chair that we explore some type of

35:41uh executive session setting where we

35:44can uh speak more openly and and freely

35:47about um some of the some of the

35:50litigation strategies that might exist

35:52for the city regarding the current

35:54posture.

35:55>> Okay. Yeah. No, I think that's it's a

35:57great idea. Council, uh Mr. Howard and

36:00Council Sentinel, I see both your hands

36:01are raised. Uh Council Sentinel, I'm

36:03going to give the floor to Mr. Howard

36:04first real quick because he hasn't had a

36:05chance to speak yet.

36:06>> Yeah.

36:07>> But I will I will get back to you

36:08momentarily. Mr. Howard,

36:10>> thank you. Uh, sorry for showing up

36:12late.

36:12>> Okay. But what uh was referenced a while

36:14ago were uh state state companion bills

36:19S2136

36:23and S2137

36:26which was uh which is is Senator Gomez's

36:30uh the his bills and the one by uh

36:34Representative Ramos is H

36:383210

36:40and H 321 11 one. They basically are

36:45oppo uh are supposed to be cutting uh

36:48are denying the biomass company from the

36:5210 to 14 million in state funding that

36:57will basically once once that funding is

37:00cut then they will have to go and find

37:03private funding because without that 10

37:06to 14 million they will not be able to

37:09operate at a profit. So those two bills

37:1221 S2136 and S2137

37:15and H3210 and H3211

37:19please uh get in contact with uh Senator

37:22Gomez and Rep. uh Ramos because these

37:26two bills are very significant. They

37:28need your support and like I said it

37:31it's very important that that that you

37:33work with those these folks. Thank you

37:35uh chair for uh recognizing me.

37:37Appreciate it.

37:38>> Happy to have you.

37:38>> Thank you Mr. Howard. Um, Sentino, real

37:42quick, what do you got for us? Yeah, I I

37:44just want to conclude by saying I I

37:46concur with uh the strategy by uh uh uh

37:51councelor Fenton that we should call

37:54through the uh council president call

37:56for a committee the whole meeting, go

37:58into executive session, but also get

38:01behind that legislation somehow with

38:04maybe a letter from the city council

38:06that we support our local delegation in

38:08Boston to that we oppose this. This

38:11whole project's horrendous and I can't

38:13believe we got this far and it's still

38:15it's still alive. It should have been

38:17killed a long time ago. So, let's see

38:19what we can do to kill it.

38:21>> Okay, great. Thank you. Thank you,

38:23Councelor Santaneloo. Um, and thank you

38:25all for for coming and taking time out

38:27of your day to be here today and

38:29champion such a uh an important issue. I

38:32mean, this does bring about a lot of

38:35public safety and and health concerns

38:37and um we want to make sure that the

38:39health and well-being of our residents

38:41is is always number one priority. So,

38:44thank you all so much for your time. Um

38:46I look forward to scheduling a meeting

38:48probably in a couple weeks with

38:49councelor Santelo and myself and uh

38:51we'll get this uh get this going. So,

38:53>> the committee of the whole schedule, we

38:55will let people know.

38:56>> Yes, she will. So, do I I do I hear a

38:59motion to adjourn the meeting? I make

39:02that motion.

39:03>> Okay. So, so moved, seconded.

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