2026-10-01 - Historical Commission

00:05[music]

00:145:30 and we'll start the welcome to the

00:17uh historic commission. Today is

00:19Thursday, October 1st.

00:24We do have uh four of our commissioners

00:26in person. We have two online. Uh just

00:29for those uh here just the general

00:31process when um your application uh

00:34comes up on the agenda sit up front

00:37here. We have a cap copy of the

00:39application. Uh talk about your project.

00:42Uh you need we need your home address

00:43for the record. Um for the project to

00:46pass. We need four yeses. So you need

00:48four out of the six tonight.

00:52Okay. Like to start with uh just general

00:55attendance and roll call. Commissioner

00:57Nardy

00:58>> President.

00:59>> Thank you. I am here. Uh Commissioner

01:03Dorsy is here.

01:05Commissioner Walsh,

01:07>> I am here.

01:08>> Thank you. Commissioner

01:10>> here.

01:11>> Yeah. Commissioner.

01:13>> Awesome. Thank you very much.

01:18Uh

01:20acceptance of the minutes. Has everyone

01:22had a chance to review the minutes? I

01:24understand correction in the minutes.

01:26>> Yes, Andrew.

01:27>> Yep. So for 10 prospect errors, I have

01:30put in the matri

01:33y when it should have been all names.

01:36So, I made a correction

01:39online, but it just

01:43go

01:52to make a motion to accept the rest.

01:55>> So, move

01:57second.

02:03Okay. Any other discussion on the

02:04minutes?

02:08All those in favor? I

02:11>> Any opposed? Any extensions?

02:15Okay,

02:15>> thank you. The minutes are in with the

02:17correction.

02:25Okay, first the public hearing is

02:28continued to by St. James.

02:30>> Yes. So, I spoken to the applicant. Uh

02:33he he did provide clarification that he

02:36will be replicating the door, but he was

02:38unable to have a representative in

02:40person today. So he uh was okay with

02:44continuing to October 15th.

02:46>> Okay. And when when does this time off?

02:49>> October 16th.

02:51[clears throat]

02:53>> Okay.

02:56Hope we don't have a any problems with

02:58the VA. If the application does

03:01automatically get approved, it's being

03:03approved to replicate the door. So, it's

03:07not

03:08>> I don't have to ask.

03:10>> Okay. Is there a motion to continue this

03:12to do five St. James to October 15th?

03:15>> I make a motion to continue to 15.

03:22>> Okay.

03:24Any discussion on that? All those in

03:27favor? I

03:28>> I

03:28>> I

03:30oppose.

03:32Okay, thank you. So 205 St. James will

03:34be to

03:39>> Okay, next item is 24 Washington Road. I

03:43understand they were drawing their

03:44application.

03:45>> Yeah. After the hearing, uh when they

03:47looked into the electrical work a little

03:50bit further, they thought it was going

03:52to be too costly and asked to withdraw

03:54the application.

03:56>> Okay. I don't think any positive

04:05>> and 77 was great.

04:08>> Yep. So I received no materials again. I

04:12reached out recommending I reached out

04:15to the petitioner recommended continuing

04:17and she agreed. So that's where we are.

04:21>> Okay. And this has already been extended

04:23until

04:25>> November 29th. So there's four meetings,

04:28>> three meetings left. Yeah.

04:30>> Got it.

04:33>> Okay. Someone like to make a motion to

04:35continue 77 Maple Street to 750. Salute.

04:40>> Second.

04:46>> All those in favor? Hi. Hi.

04:50>> Okay. So, 77

04:54to approve.

04:56>> Okay. Public hearings five Madison

04:58Avenue.

05:09>> Great. How are you?

05:10>> Good.

05:12>> Your home address?

05:13>> 204 Lewis Road, Springfield.

05:15>> Great. engineers.

05:16>> Kenny Desa.

05:17>> Awesome.

05:20>> Tell us about the project.

05:21>> I'm the facilities manager for

05:22Behavioral Health Network and we were

05:25repeatedly getting fined due to our

05:27dumpsters sticking out past the the the

05:30house line. Not necessarily the property

05:31line, but 3 or 4 ft past. So, they asked

05:34us to relocate the dumpsters

05:36back about 50 ft. Right now, we have

05:38like a dirt spot where we have perfect

05:41room for the two small fouryard

05:42dumpsters. And I had to move a shed

05:44over. door and um looking for permission

05:47to put a stock a chain link with black

05:50slats stock a fence around the two

05:54dumpsters with a gate locking gate.

05:59>> So that is their burning position.

06:02>> That's where they were where they're

06:03sticking out about 3 to 4 feet too far

06:05towards the road past the the house

06:07house line. Not the property line. Yeah.

06:09Right where the front of the house is.

06:10So they wanted us to push them straight

06:12back where that gray shed is. So that

06:14gray shed now is about 25 ft back

06:16farther into the yard and the dumpsters

06:18are about 8 ft to the right of the

06:21basketball hoop right up against the

06:22pavement.

06:24>> So you moved the shed.

06:26>> We moved the shed. Yeah, I had to move

06:27the shed because the this is a substance

06:29abuse home um for for men and they store

06:32all the bikes and stuff in there. So it

06:34was going to impede their access to

06:35their bikes. So, I had to move the whole

06:36shed over just enough to give them their

06:39room and make enough room for a fence to

06:40fit around the two dumpsters if necess.

06:52And so when they when the

06:54>> um USA hauling pulls straight in, they

06:56can open their gates, they can pull to

06:57the right, empty, back up, pull to the

06:59left, empty. There's no lines above

07:02>> uh impeding their ability to lift the

07:04dumpsters. It's straight ahead.

07:06>> Okay. Um on that, so what is what is the

07:10fencing going to look like?

07:11>> It'll be the uh like 6 foot I believe

07:13chain link. I have a

07:15>> We can We're all about what it looks

07:17like. That's pres.

07:22So

07:23>> yeah,

07:25we'll send it over.

07:26>> Yeah,

07:27>> that's good. There's We have something

07:28from Broer. It's just like uh

07:31>> Oh, it didn't have So there's another

07:33page. I apologize. There's another piece

07:34that they showed just the uh black chain

07:37link with some black lats in it like the

07:39>> Is it going to look like the fencing?

07:42>> No.

07:42>> No. It'll look like it'll look like like

07:44a baseball

07:45>> paddic like a dumpster paddic completely

07:46fenced in with the black. You won't be

07:48able to really see through it to see the

07:50dumpsters.

07:51>> The basketball hoop is farther to the

07:53left. It's not It's not really near the

07:54basketball,

07:54>> but it's a chainlink fence with slats

07:56going through it that are black.

07:58>> Yeah. They're like privacy slats they

07:59put through. And it also stops people

08:00from being able to climbing over it as

08:02well. Yeah,

08:05I figured black because we had the black

08:07metal you uh a couple years ago we were

08:09here getting approved for the some of

08:11the upgrades they did to the building

08:12like the black railing we had to upgrade

08:14to and stuff like that. So I was I say

08:16black

08:17>> chain with the lads in it to match the

08:19black exterior of the building

08:22>> and it's essentially going to match the

08:24fence along the side.

08:25>> Yeah, that fence is black too, but it's

08:26a Yeah, the black chain on that side and

08:28then the black rod iron on the other

08:30side. Yeah. So it would, but picture it

08:31with the black slats through it, too. So

08:33you couldn't see through it.

08:34>> And it's going to be the same height. Is

08:35that right?

08:36>> Pretty much. Yeah. 6 ft.

08:37>> Yep.

08:39>> The dumpster's only about four and a

08:41half, 5 ft.

08:42>> Yeah. So just about to

08:43>> You looked at other types of fencing

08:45besides chain lane. I just looked around

08:47at the other properties and I spoke with

08:48the fence company broer who had done

08:50this for the similar reason why we're

08:52trying having to do it and they said

08:54that's pretty much the consensus of what

08:56everybody kind of settles on that and a

08:58vinyl but the vinyl tends to break

09:00quickly. Um so we just took the

09:03>> So you didn't look at rod iron or

09:04something like that?

09:05>> No rod iron. So, I'm I'm working on

09:07another project at my my corporate

09:09candidates, a rod iron, and the price

09:11and the the turnover time that it would

09:13have taken for them to custom like make

09:15it would have been months and the city

09:17would have continued to. So, this was

09:19the the best route with the time we had.

09:23I'd already asked for two extensions

09:29>> for clarification purposes. There are um

09:33a lot of the districts allow fencing to

09:35be acrewed if it's behind the building

09:37lines by non-neabibility. This

09:40particular district has not allowed

09:41that. Right.

09:42>> Well, it's it's out front. It may have

09:44been okay where it was in the rear, but

09:46now it's

09:47>> I've been here for we've had this

09:48program I think for three or four years

09:50and uh that's just where the Phoenix

09:52house was before us a little bit.

09:54>> That's where they had it. So, we kind of

09:55left it thinking we were good, but in

09:56the background there was fine happening.

09:58I wasn't aware until last.

10:00>> Sure. Yeah.

10:01>> Well, we've all been there. We don't we

10:02until we know and then now we know.

10:04Okay. Well, now we know. So,

10:05>> yeah. I've been working with Morice.

10:06Just kind of giving them all the

10:07information as we go along and let know

10:09I was doing this.

10:10>> Great. Any other questions from

10:13Commissioner S? Commissioner Nardy,

10:15Commissioner Walsh, any questions?

10:17>> No questions.

10:18>> Yeah, I don't have a question. I just

10:19have a comment. I believe that the

10:21sixoot black chain link uh with the with

10:25the slats is an appropriate solution to

10:28the dumpster problem. I mean, it's the

10:30same height as the fence to the right.

10:32It's the same color. The colors match.

10:35It's also behind the foundation line

10:38significant significantly. So, it's

10:40really not in our purview necessarily,

10:43but as long as it's black, I'm okay with

10:45it.

10:48>> Thank you.

10:48>> It's also going to kind of glide that

10:50shed.

10:51>> Yes. The shed will be

10:54>> I tried to lose the shed, but I lost

10:57that fight. It's a lot of only ways of

11:00getting around.

11:01>> Okay. Any other comments or questions

11:04from commissioners?

11:06>> No, sir.

11:07>> Okay. Hearing none, I'll open it up to

11:08public comment if anyone would like to

11:10speak for against the fence project

11:14at 5 Madison Avenue.

11:18Okay. Hearing none, we'll bring it back

11:20to the uh to the

11:23like to make a motion on the application

11:25for Madison Avenue. I made a motion to

11:28accept it as presented.

11:32>> Second.

11:40>> Okay. Commissioner Nardy to the vote.

11:44>> My vote yes.

11:46>> Okay. Thank you. Commissioner P. Yes.

11:49Commissioner Dorsy.

11:50>> Yes.

11:51>> Okay. Commissioner Walsh.

11:53>> Yes.

11:54>> Commissioner Nesour.

11:55>> Yes.

11:55>> And Commissioner Coffin. Yes. Thank

11:58>> awesome.

11:59>> Awesome. Accept application accepted. So

12:01what's been approved is what you have on

12:03the application. If for some reason the

12:04fencing's got to change, got to go a

12:06different place, got a different sign,

12:08you got to come back.

12:10>> You got it. I think we're pretty good

12:11with picking.

12:12>> Great. Awesome. Thanks.

12:14>> Have a good night.

12:15>> Me, too.

12:2793 Garfield Street.

12:31>> Come on down. I'll

12:34make my home address for the record,

12:36please.

12:37>> This is comp

12:45because it's better for me.

12:49We still we still need your name and

12:52your home address. Dre is y

12:57>> Vasquez.

12:57>> Okay.

12:58>> The address.

12:59>> Yes.

12:59>> 93.

13:01>> Wow. Perfect. Perfect.

13:03>> I can speak.

13:06>> I Yeah.

13:07>> Thank you.

13:08>> Thank you.

13:14>> Okay. Okay. So, in addition to the

13:15application, um so this is the um the

13:19introduction letter that um that she's

13:21provided. Dear members of the

13:22commission, my English is not very

13:23fluent. So, I prepared the statement to

13:25explain my situation clearly. I'm single

13:28mother working hard for care to maintain

13:30my home at 93 Garfield Street. Last

13:32winter, we were very cold because of the

13:34deteriors. My intention is not to change

13:36the appearance of the house simply uh

13:38for cosmetic reasons, but to address the

13:40need that affects my family's wellbeing

13:42and heating cost. Back when I purchased

13:44the property, the home inspector

13:46identified the poor condition of the

13:47windows and indicated they would need to

13:49be replaced in the near future. This

13:51past winter confirmed the seriousness of

13:53the problem. The house was difficult to

13:54keep warm. My gas bills were extremely

13:56high. Uh I selected the Crystal

14:00Contractor series window in an effort to

14:02come as close as possible to the

14:03features and guidance Andrew has sent

14:05me. uh while also considering what I can

14:08afford. I'm seeking a simple vertically

14:10operated double home design with the

14:11slimmest possible profile to maintain an

14:14appearance uh similar to the existing

14:16window and avoid overly thick frames

14:18that reduce the glass area.

14:21Uh I chose white to achieve a classic

14:24appearance that complements the house.

14:26In addition to the double plane uh flowy

14:29coating in our argon gas, it's intended

14:32to improve insulation and reduce heat

14:33loss during work. Uh, my proposal begins

14:36with six windows with the work completed

14:38in stages because I cannot afford to

14:40replace all the windows at once. I value

14:42the historic character of my home and I

14:44want to care for it responsibly, finding

14:46a solution that is appropriate for the

14:47property and within my means. As you

14:50review my application, I respectfully

14:52ask that you consider the photographs,

14:54documentation submitted, the condition

14:56of the existing windows, and my

14:58financial situation. My goal is to

15:00preserve and properly maintain my home

15:01while uh providing better and more

15:04energyefficient living conditions for my

15:06family. Thank you very much for

15:07listening.

15:08>> Detected in the front

15:09>> considering my situation who's a medic.

15:13>> Thank you.

15:17>> So this this is the house here, right?

15:20>> Yeah. This very beautiful

15:26when we send a message.

15:30this red.

15:33>> Okay.

15:34>> So, we I think we had this in the

15:36application, right? The crystal windows.

15:40>> Yes.

15:40>> These are all

15:43double hung one over one, right? No

15:45bridge.

15:52>> That's the house.

15:53>> Yeah. That's the house. pointing where

15:55the giant tree that we

15:59>> but there are pictures

16:06>> they have a problem to

16:10>> my ten in the field floor see me have

16:13problem with the window

16:14>> sure Yeah.

16:26>> So that's the window now.

16:28>> Mhm.

16:36>> They're all white.

16:37>> They don't want to go.

16:40>> Are those windows already been replaced?

16:44No, those are wood.

16:44>> Those are wood, right?

16:47>> Yeah. Those are exchange storms.

16:50>> So, the windows that are being replaced

16:52are six on the first floor.

16:55First floor.

16:57>> I don't where the what? On the house.

17:00>> Yeah.

17:00>> No, no, no. The six that you want to

17:02replace.

17:03>> Uh three uh first floor and and three

17:06second floor.

17:07>> So,

17:08>> are they on the front? Uh

17:13around

17:13>> side back.

17:15>> Yeah. You see the air condition is so

17:18bad. Okay. Can you

17:20>> please do like a front view of the

17:22house? So we can

17:23>> I'll do my best this.

17:24>> Well, just whatever we have. So is it

17:26>> there? She's saying it's a side there or

17:27there.

17:28>> Okay. The other side of the house.

17:31>> Is it this side?

17:33>> The other side. The other side. Yeah. So

17:36>> is that the driveway side?

17:38>> Yeah. Okay. So it's right there.

17:41>> Yeah.

17:43Still got you got a small trader, but

17:44it's that's the side.

17:49>> See, maybe later,

17:52>> right?

17:53>> Yeah. If you

17:58There it is. Okay.

18:11Andrew, do we know if this manufact had

18:14this manufacturer? I didn't see any on

18:16the list. I don't I don't recognize the

18:18brand that this really mean anything

18:34Okay. Any other comments or questions

18:37from commission about?

18:43She hasn't chosen whether this is

18:45hardship or appropriate.

18:55>> I thought the commission will

18:56potentially help directors on which way

18:59to go. Okay,

19:03[clears throat]

19:03>> Mr. Chair,

19:05>> Commissioner Walsh.

19:06>> Yes. Uh I we really need to know exactly

19:10which six windows are being replaced and

19:13um and what our color op other color

19:17options are if she's doing I mean

19:20obviously the white is seldom approved

19:24by the commission and the historic

19:27property home had dark windows. U the

19:30white appears to be uh storm windows but

19:33what is what's be underneath it? Is it

19:35black? I can see black in that picture

19:37right there.

19:39Um, but I also don't know what the six

19:41windows are because I think I think she

19:43if she said third floor, there's some

19:46decorative

19:47>> you have three on the first floor

19:50and three on the second floor.

19:52>> Yeah.

19:53>> Right.

19:53>> So now the

19:56>> can they be noted on the photo? Which

19:58ones

19:59>> do can you point to which windows?

20:03>> So the air condition. Yes.

20:06>> The air conditioner window right there

20:08>> and

20:10>> that one above it

20:11>> and that

20:13>> right there.

20:14>> Yeah.

20:15>> And the other is for now sits

20:19>> those

20:20>> and then the two behind it.

20:22>> Yeah.

20:22>> Okay. Thank you.

20:24>> Every house is so bad. But yeah,

20:26>> I want to now I I can buy maybe only

20:30five.

20:30>> Sure. Six.

20:31>> Sure. So, [clears throat] one of the

20:34things Commissioner Walsh mentioned, so

20:36all historic windows originally were

20:38dark in color. So, typically the

20:41commissioner likes to see when windows

20:43are replaced if they're replaced with a

20:45dark color. Typically, we don't approve

20:47white. White's typically not approved.

20:51You can you can certainly present that

20:54as you know and keep that what you want,

20:57but historically the commission has not

20:58approved white. So, what he's suggesting

21:01is that you consider from this

21:03manufacturer maybe a darker color to see

21:06if they have a, you know, a like black

21:09is was originally what all the windows

21:11are.

21:11>> I checked that color. It's not

21:13expensive.

21:14>> I don't know.

21:15>> Yeah. Well, the windows are going to be

21:16there a long time.

21:18>> Just like those windows have been there

21:20a long time. So, I'm just we're just

21:23we're just providing feedback for you

21:25and of things that

21:28um might potentially happen.

21:30Um the other thing is um

21:34we haven't we haven't ever approved this

21:36window. So one of the things that is

21:38helpful for us is to actually see one

21:41either either something that they could

21:43provide I don't know where you're buying

21:45these from. Could they provide us with a

21:48like what it looks like in an existing

21:50house at the house they've already done

21:52or a sales piece. Um, if you had a sales

21:56rep, sometimes they come in or they'll

21:58bring in a window so we can actually see

22:00what it looks like. If it's an existing

22:03window that someone else had already

22:04replaced, it's easier for us because we

22:07had already seen it with another

22:09application on another house where we

22:11had actually seen the window.

22:13um you're you're it's you know, thanks

22:16for for helping her with this because

22:17one of the things we always look for is

22:19what's the color and then what's how big

22:23is the sash on the bottom. So you're

22:24right on with with having a a thinner

22:27sash on the bottom because that's what

22:29the window wood windows look like. And

22:31again, we're just you're just trying to

22:32replicate so that it kind of looks the

22:34same.

22:36So I think that would be helpful as

22:38well.

22:39>> Okay. Thank you.

22:43And these are these are just clear. No

22:45bridge. There won't be any.

22:46>> No, he's not.

22:47>> Just clear like

22:48>> No, it's not.

22:50>> Yeah.

22:56[clears throat]

22:57>> Okay. So, do you want to do you want to

23:00try and go back to the window

23:01manufacturer and see if they have a

23:03different color? Do you want to stay

23:04with your application as it is now and

23:07they have this vote on it tonight? What

23:09would you like to do? I don't know.

23:16>> Well, you can come back in two weeks at

23:18tomorrow. I can summarize everything.

23:20>> I can.

23:21>> Um, well, you don't have to resubmit

23:23your application. You can go back to the

23:25manufacturer and see if they can provide

23:28an example and maybe they're able to

23:31come to the meeting. As Commissioner Cor

23:34said,

23:34>> they can. Yeah. Even if they or if they

23:36had a sales fly, something that we can

23:37see what it looks like in an existing

23:39house.

23:41>> You got a you have a manufacturer's name

23:43and model for me?

23:45>> Sure. Oh, you want to try to look it up?

23:49It's uh

23:50>> there you go. Look at here's your color.

23:53There's your colors.

23:55>> Right there.

23:56>> Come back to the left.

23:57>> No, it's done.

23:59>> Right there. There's your colors.

24:01>> It's the That's not the right one. No,

24:03because it's missed.

24:05>> Oh, it's the Crystal Series 100.

24:07>> Okay.

24:08>> Yeah,

24:08>> it's the Crystal Series 100.

24:10>> Okay.

24:13>> Crystal Series 100.

24:14>> Google.

24:16>> Yeah.

24:18Um,

24:19what's

24:34the manufacturer?

24:38>> Crystal. It says Crystal Window.

24:41>> Crystal Window.

24:42>> Crystal Window and Door Systems. That's

24:44the manufacturer.

24:48It's not the tilt window, right?

24:50>> Yep. It's the tilt window.

24:54>> Series 100 vinyl mechanical double hung

24:56tilt replacement window.

24:58>> This is the window.

25:01>> No, no, no. These

25:04goes up and down, doesn't it? It looks

25:07like this. Okay.

25:08>> But this is what this is what you gave

25:10us. That's the tilt 100. And it does say

25:14that it tilts, but it it it'll still go

25:17up and down.

25:18>> Okay.

25:19>> Right. It just has a tilt option as

25:21well.

25:23>> They all do. I mean, you take the thing

25:25and you can you can tilt it. But that's

25:27theory.

25:28>> Yeah.

25:30>> Crystal 100. That's what you gave us

25:32here.

25:35>> And you understand the same.

25:39>> I I can I understand, but not too much.

25:42Yep.

25:43>> You understand

25:45>> what?

25:46>> I understand that you don't understand

25:48everything.

25:49>> Nobody's sleeping there.

25:51>> Yeah.

25:56>> So I I think that's the window. That's

25:59what's here. It's the Crystal Windows

26:02and Door is the manufacturer. It's the

26:05Crystal Series 100.

26:07>> Yeah, I'm I'm looking it up.

26:11Is Is there any mechanical drawing of it

26:13in there in that pad?

26:15>> Uh yeah, I'm looking.

26:17>> Okay. Thank

26:20>> Have you talked to anyone about

26:23repairing the old windows

26:27in my future to repair them

26:31by these windows?

26:37is broken a notch.

26:44>> The problem we find with vinyl windows

26:48is they do not last.

26:51They fall apart very quickly. 10 15

26:54years they have to be replaced of them

26:59and they leave in between. So that's one

27:02of the reasons not only the visual but

27:04also not a good investment for a lot of

27:08people at least that's my opinion

27:12and you're spending hard money.

27:25>> Uh I have some information for you. I'm

27:27not finding the colors yet.

27:30that

27:32>> um I could share the screen I guess.

27:36>> Yeah.

27:38Or you can drop it in the chat. Either

27:40one works.

27:46>> Lucy, do you have a contractor that you

27:48work on?

27:50So the I call the window window house

27:56or only 10 windows 25,000

28:02this

28:02>> so who who's going to put these in for

28:04>> these are in Bristol Connecticut.

28:06>> Okay.

28:07>> These are out in um the my friend say me

28:12I can go I call them.

28:14>> Mhm. I explained I have story house

28:19and when me check the message the

28:23[clears throat] he say

28:26um something uh for a proof um I tell in

28:33the store

28:37>> okay

28:39>> that's fine you're doing fine speak

28:42>> you're doing fine you're doing fine So

28:45that's what you're buying. They're

28:47buying it from this place in

28:48Connecticut. But who's going to put them

28:50in? So once you buy the window, who's

28:52going to install them? Who's going to

28:54take the window and put them into your

28:55house?

28:56>> The contract the contract

28:58>> the same same person.

28:59>> No, the maybe the No, because my friend

29:03know that for for maybe

29:07he buy in the other time.

29:11He say you can is is a no expensive

29:15window there is a good store for me and

29:20when me buy the windows pay the

29:23contractor with the license for put in

29:26the in the house you understand

29:29>> because I call two uh company is too,000

29:3728,000

29:38I don't know

29:40>> I don't Crazy, right?

29:42>> Yeah.

29:42>> Yeah.

29:43>> I say what?

29:44>> Yeah.

29:46>> So, uh I I received assistful

29:51uh I call because the this year I I

29:55received insulation free.

29:59>> I hope the help with my window. But he

30:03say, "Oh, you have gas in second floor

30:06and oil in the fifth floor is too much

30:08problem."

30:10I say but it's my house the tenant is no

30:13no no problem for the tenant. So the

30:17Springfield part say oh you know what

30:20what if it

30:23yeah

30:24>> so I say the people is all

30:29he say I can I can help you so I'm try

30:33with you

30:35for help me or change because the other

30:39winter is

30:41>> sure

30:41>> so bad for my kids for my family

30:44>> y

30:44>> I puts um in

30:46>> plastic.

30:48Everything I I everything is this.

30:53>> I don't know.

30:56>> Okay.

30:58>> Al, how you doing?

30:59>> Uh can you see any of this?

31:01>> Yes.

31:02>> Yes.

31:02>> Okay. So, here's a section through it.

31:05>> The stud wall would Can you hear me?

31:08>> Yeah.

31:09>> Yeah. The stud wall would be here. So

31:11what you would see

31:13uh the the siding would come just

31:16underneath this little lip here. So what

31:18you would see is this bottom piece of

31:20the sash

31:22>> relatively low to the sill.

31:25>> Mhm.

31:25>> Okay. You can see it again in here. Um

31:29where is it? You can see it in this

31:31elevation. That's what you would see

31:34along the bottom. As far as

31:38what it looks like outside, this gives

31:40you some indication except these are

31:42white. I don't see any indications yet

31:45as to what the color availability is.

31:50And um

31:56if it's similar to the series 200

32:00color-wise, then you have that already.

32:02But I can't find a color chart for the

32:05100. It's the best I can do for you.

32:08>> Okay.

32:18Translation.

32:20>> We have a solution. They can keep

32:22running to

32:24>> interpreter stuff.

32:25>> Yeah, we have a number. Judy had sent it

32:28to you a while back but I have used the

32:31translation F with applicants. It might

32:34be might be difficult.

32:38>> I have a GPD that's translate for me.

32:41>> Right.

32:42>> What can I do? Yeah.

32:45>> What are the questions for redemption?

32:48I'm not I'm kind of lost on this. So, we

32:50>> Well, I mean, at this point, we're

32:52trying to we're we're trying to see if

32:55the window is a slimline design. What's

32:58it going to look like on the sash,

33:01>> right?

33:01>> It looks like from the technical

33:02drawing, it's low profile.

33:04>> Yeah, Mr. Walsh.

33:06>> Yeah, an inch and a quarter is not low.

33:09There's others that are worse than that,

33:11but the the the slim lines we try to get

33:14are um my hand keeps disappearing. are

33:17um are less than that. Although it is

33:19close. It's close.

33:21>> Close. It's close.

33:22>> Uh and at some point maybe that's an

33:24acceptable uh difference, but um I'm

33:28still concerned with color, but I'm

33:29almost more concerned with the numbers

33:32that she was throwing out for cost.

33:35Um if unless I misunderstood her, it

33:37sounded

33:40very very high compared to anything that

33:42we're used to on this commission. I I

33:46agree especially with the quality of the

33:48product I just saw.

33:50>> Yeah, that's a that's a contractor's

33:51version. That's one of the least

33:53expensive.

33:53>> I I think what she was saying was the

33:55first two people she called the prices

33:58were very high. The proposal she has

34:01here were more reasonable and that's why

34:04she's dealing with the contractor from

34:06Connecticut with these six.

34:08>> All right. What was the price for the

34:10six?

34:12Lucy, do you know what the what the cost

34:14what the cost is for the proposal on

34:16these?

34:16>> So, one second.

34:20>> I do the window house and email or

34:25>> did they give you a proposal like what's

34:27the cost to install them for these six

34:33>> or six?

34:33>> For these? Yeah.

34:34>> For six?

34:35>> Yeah. For what you chose, right?

34:37>> Yeah. Maybe

34:41>> 1,00

34:42or 1,500

34:47for buy.

34:48>> Yeah.

34:49>> For bay maybe.

34:51>> And then to install.

34:52>> Yeah. Three three 4,000.

34:54>> Okay.

34:54>> Yeah. 3,50.

34:57>> They're not they're not getting by this

35:00>> company. It sounds like

35:01>> the company is too much.

35:03>> Yeah. So she's buying the windows and

35:05then they'll hire a contract. I'm going

35:06to have somebody else installed.

35:09>> So that's the cost not being installed.

35:13>> That's

35:15I don't see the

35:17handle.

35:23>> Okay. So, um

35:30I I don't know if there's if we have

35:33enough to to vote on this as it is

35:35today.

35:37Uh my suggestion would be

35:42if we could get more information on the

35:43window from the supplier

35:47on, you know, if this if this is a

35:50slimline window and then because if if

35:54it's an inch and a half, what

35:55Commissioner Walsh is saying is it is

35:57still kind of tall.

35:58>> No, he's saying it's 10,

36:01>> right? But we got we had the met we had

36:03Al pull the metrics up and so what he's

36:05saying was it was it was an inch and a

36:07half which is still not

36:09>> small

36:10>> as as as

36:12thin as other windows that we've

36:14approved. But since we can't look at it

36:16and we don't really have a point of

36:17reference. So it's hard it's hard for us

36:19to just say yeah it's thin based on what

36:21you're describing. Um we that's why we

36:24usually look at other ones that we've

36:26approved or if there's one here we could

36:28see it. Um the other the other the

36:31really big issue though is the color.

36:34That's that's really kind of the big

36:35issue. Um so [clears throat] my

36:39recommendation would be that you do a

36:40continuence. You see if you can get uh

36:43more information on this window either a

36:45picture or something or if they put down

36:48>> something for

36:51the site has pre-approved windows.

36:54Perhaps the person that you your friend

36:58can look at that list of pre-approved

37:02windows and see if those are will work

37:07for you.

37:09And there's there's many windows that

37:11other people just like you have come

37:13before and they're all different brands

37:16that we've approved that were slimline,

37:19dark in color, you know, something you

37:22can look up. You could get a price for

37:24and either call these guys or call look

37:26them up and call a different contractor

37:28that is around here. You could get a new

37:31proposal that of a window that was

37:33already approved with a color that would

37:36work.

37:39I need my right here

37:43>> and and it would be helpful if you're

37:44Yeah. If they

37:45>> call that

37:46>> Yeah.

37:47>> The five person the five company is too

37:49much for me now.

37:51>> Yeah.

37:53>> I don't I don't know. I cannot do more.

38:00I have four months.

38:03Check here. Check here.

38:05is expensive here is expensive here.

38:08>> So when me call that this company BTO

38:12>> is a loss.

38:16Uh

38:16>> so do you want to call do you want to

38:18maybe call him back? Send me the

38:20message.

38:20>> I I hear you. Do you want to call him

38:23back and see if they author in the

38:24darker color?

38:27>> Do you want to do that?

38:32I need maybe the other meeting with my

38:35daughter because

38:37>> I need understand more.

38:39>> Okay, that's totally fair. So again for

38:42me

38:42>> that's why I'm saying maybe maybe if if

38:44you continue this to the October 15th

38:46meeting you can you can talk about it.

38:49You can bring your daughter with you.

38:50You can talk with your daughter about

38:51it. You can talk with Andrew. Andrew

38:54Andrew will certainly help you.

38:59He's only two weeks away. So, we give

39:02you time to

39:04work on that.

39:13I'm sorry. I know this is hard.

39:23How can we help? What would you like us

39:24to do?

39:41I can come later.

39:43>> Okay.

39:44>> Because I don't feel good.

39:46>> Okay. I understand. Right. Okay.

39:50Okay. Okay. So, um, someone would like

39:52to make a motion to, um,

39:56push the application to the next

39:58meeting.

39:58>> I make a motion to continue the matter

40:00to the next meeting October 15th.

40:03>> Okay. Thank you.

40:05>> So moved. I mean, so seconded.

40:09>> Thanks, Al.

40:11Okay. All in favor?

40:13>> I

40:13>> I

40:14>> Okay. Thank you.

40:17Okay. So, it's been continued. Andrew

40:19can help you. I'm sorry.

40:45>> Okay. So, that's it for public hearing.

40:46Is that correct?

40:48Yes, I believe so.

40:56>> Okay. Where would you like to start on

40:57other matters?

40:59>> Um well, we have a lot of people here

41:01for um the Lady of the Rotary Church.

41:05Okay. So, perhaps we start with uh with

41:09that. Okay.

41:12And

41:14I guess I will start with a synopsis of

41:17everything. Um, so back in May, uh, Home

41:21City Development came in front of the

41:23commission asking for a demo delay

41:25waiver. The commission after reviewing

41:28everything uh, had denied the waiver um,

41:33saying that there wasn't enough um,

41:35supporting documentation for the issue

41:37of the waiver. Um since then once

41:40development has been um I think doing

41:43more due diligence in terms of doing

41:45structural engineering and getting a

41:48structural engineer to provide

41:50additional details. Um I they have since

41:54been with Mass Historic. Uh I believe

41:57Mass Historic has uh advised and you'll

42:00have to correct me in regards to this

42:02one. Um, Mass Historic heard what uh,

42:07Springfield Historic Commission said in

42:09regards to the adverse effect and I

42:13believe gave direction to see what you

42:15could do. Um, Home City Development came

42:19up with a plan to save the church, but

42:22still was proposing to demolish the

42:24rectory and the

42:27um the school, the classrooms. Um and

42:32that an agreement was drafted that um I

42:36think it as Home City Development EHC

42:40and

42:42you guys the Springfield Historic

42:44Commission to um I don't know if it was

42:47for review. Uh it when I received the

42:50email it was more for you guys to sign.

42:52Um so that's something potentially to

42:55discuss. Um, but I know that Home City

42:58Development is still wanting to move

42:59forward with uh their project which

43:03would still result in the demolition of

43:06those two builds. Um, I have received

43:10correspondence which all of you have in

43:12your packet. Some of it I received over

43:15the last few days. So, I don't know if

43:17you have a chance to review it. I did

43:18only get the uh structural report out to

43:21you guys today. Um and then I also

43:24received um public comment at the last

43:27minute from Springfield Preservation

43:29Trust. So that's in there. Um and then

43:32the law department sent a memorandum on

43:35how to move forward with the local

43:38historic district. I guess I left the

43:41story out after the demo delay. The

43:44commission has explored or discussed

43:46whether you guys want to move forward

43:48with the local historic district for the

43:50campus. Um, so we've been kind of

43:52figuring out that process. Um, attorney

43:55Shark has submitted a a memorandum on

43:59the process for doing so and Kushner

44:01Copy has already started with some um

44:06background materials regarding the

44:08church campus. So um I don't know where

44:11the best part or best place to start is.

44:14um you know I guess in terms of

44:16commissioner copy you want to kind of

44:20explain what your research has led to

44:22and provide additional back.

44:25>> Yeah Mr. Sure.

44:27>> So um

44:29yeah, pursuant to the question of um

44:32this you know the commission

44:35moving forward to u rule this campus

44:39historic district

44:41um you know we would need to do some

44:43study you know what what if there's

44:45basis for that um and while we were

44:49considering what the whole mechanism for

44:51that is I took the initiative to do some

44:55initial research and I'd like to read

44:56into the record the results of that

44:59research if that's all right. Sorry

45:03because I think it's it's a it indicates

45:06sort of the breadth of this question. So

45:09um the site of Our Lady of Rosary Roman

45:11Catholic Church and Parish School

45:13includes three major structures with a

45:15shared narrative and unique significance

45:17for the city of Springfield residential

45:19regional residents and to United States

45:21history. The three buildings at 334

45:24Franklin, 346 Franklin, and 28 Underwood

45:27Street comprise the parish school,

45:29church, and convent. The parish was

45:32created by the Springfield Roman

45:34Catholic Dascese, which assigned a

45:36father Stannis Los Olmanski as its

45:38priest in 1970. All three structures are

45:41listed in Mris and the school and

45:44convent rectory buildings were deemed

45:45eligible for national registry listing

45:47in 2001.

45:50In 1918, parish trustees contracted the

45:53architect Bruno was began construction

45:55of a church and gymnasium building at

45:57the corner of Franklin and Leonard. And

45:59the cornerstone was laid on July 15th,

46:011918. This is the building that

46:04everybody's refraining to the school.

46:07The following year, the parish purchased

46:08Via Mortgage and furnished 28 Underwood

46:10Street to serve as housing for members

46:13of the Sisters of Nazareth religious

46:15order who were to teach parish children.

46:17This is the building that we've been

46:19referring to as the record. In early

46:22September 1919, Olammansky announced

46:24that a parochial school would open that

46:26month. Initial enrollment was about 200

46:30Polish children, according to the

46:31Springfield Republican, which grew to

46:33150 students by 1926. The convent was

46:36formally opened on September 19th

46:40of 1919.

46:42The Italian 8 house at 28 Underwood

46:44Street was originally built for Joshua

46:46Bliss Venton circa 19 1853. Vent was a

46:50major property owner in Springfield and

46:52director of the Massoy Insurance Company

46:54which was incorporated in 1857.

46:57The current Venton Street apparently

47:00commemorates those land holdings. The

47:02time of his death in 1882. His estate

47:04included approximately 90 acres. The

47:06estate trustees sold the house soon

47:08thereafters and remained in private

47:10hands until its purchased by the dascese

47:13in in around 1919 for use to house the

47:17nuns who would teach in the parish

47:18school. Not long afterward, the parish

47:20announced that it would add a second

47:22story to the church school building that

47:24would include classrooms and a new

47:25priest's apartment. The priest had been

47:28living in the basement since 1918. That

47:30addition was also designed by Bruno and

47:32featured quote tapestry brick with

47:34limestone trimmings. According to the

47:36Springfield Republican, Wasby de

47:38designed a range of institutional

47:40buildings in the region, 12 of which are

47:42listed in Mris and four of those are

47:44listed in the National Register,

47:46including St. Joseph's Roman Catholic

47:47Church in Springfield, Laurel Hall in

47:49Springfield, Spring Street Drugstore in

47:52Springfield, and the Polish National

47:53Home in Cher.

47:55Our Lady of Rosary grew to an important

47:57center of civic activity. An assembly

47:59hall was added to the main building in

48:021927. And through the 20s and 30s, the

48:04parish hosted an annual multi-day

48:06outdoor festival, which drew thousands

48:08of attendees from across the city and

48:10was co-sponsored by dozens of other

48:12local civic groups and businesses. By

48:141925, the parish reported 2,000 members.

48:18The citywide youth basketball leaf

48:21tournament was co-spuned by the parish

48:24from 1928

48:26and actually was they they co-inated it

48:28and during the 20s and 30s tournament

48:30games were played in the uh in the

48:32gymnasium at at Our Lady of Rosary.

48:35Olammansky reportedly co-officiated at

48:37least one of those games according to

48:40photographs in the Daily News. In 1939,

48:44groundbreaking for a new church on

48:46Franklin Street was attended by 2,000

48:48persons. The building was described in

48:50the local press as red pressed brick and

48:52granite Georgian architecture, 150 ft

48:55long and between 50 and 65 ft wide with

48:58a seating of about 900 at a completed

49:01cost of $125,000.

49:04A Springfield Republican further noted

49:06that about 25 or 30 men are employed

49:08regularly on the project, many of whom

49:10are members of the parish, some

49:12volunteered their services. Geckler and

49:14Pible are the architects and CH Clap is

49:16supervising the job. The Daily News

49:18reported that quote practically all

49:20phases of work were done by the

49:21parishioners who gave their time and

49:23service freely during the construction

49:25period. Close quote. The church was

49:27dedicated by Bishop Olri on July 28

49:3028th, 1940.

49:32In 1954, the parish built a

49:34purpose-built common for the teaching

49:36sisters, the Holy Family of Nazareth.

49:38The building was described as an 18

49:40room, one-story structure 125x 53 ft

49:43long with 10 bedrooms, chapel, kitchen,

49:46community room, and vestibule pordly

49:48construction work on that was also done

49:51by volunteer workers under the

49:52supervision of Olamanssky parish priest.

49:56Um uh just parenthetically that building

49:59no longer exists but there is in the

50:01photographs you'll see a concrete slab

50:02behind the school building that's where

50:05the convent had been built. Stannis Los

50:08Solomonky himself became an important

50:10civic voice in Springfield beyond his

50:11role as a parish priest. Local

50:13newspapers recounted his opinions on

50:15local affairs civic activism regarding

50:17the Polish immigrant community and on

50:19affairs in Poland. For example, he and

50:22OR congregation were prominent in the

50:24American Red Cross. the Kazusco League,

50:26the North End Improvement League, the

50:28Polish National Alliance, and the

50:30Sovieties Brotherly Aid Association.

50:32During the First World War, Arley de

50:34Rosi was the center for refugee relief

50:36efforts and liberty bond fund drives.

50:38Notably, Alammansky on his own

50:40initiative and reportedly without

50:41permission from his bishop traveled from

50:43Springfield via Alaska and Siberia to

50:46Moscow in April and May of 1944 to

50:49discuss post-war future of Poland as a

50:51reunified country and of the and of

50:54Roman Catholics in Russia, Poland,

50:56Ukraine and Bellarussia. His meetings

50:58with USSR government officials including

51:01Joseph Stalin were national news in the

51:03USA and very controversial regionally.

51:06In addition to being reported by

51:07newspapers across the US, including the

51:10New York Times and newspapers in the

51:12Twin Cities, Denver, every place, Time

51:15magazine ran at least two stories about

51:17it. Following the trip, Olammansky

51:19reported on discussions to President

51:20Roosevelt and made a written report to

51:22Pope Pius the 12th. For his citizen

51:25diplomacy efforts, Diocese Bishop Olus

51:27suspended Olmansky and ordered him to

51:29seclude himself to a monastery for a

51:31year. civic support for his trip trip

51:33was of such enthusiasm that the bishop

51:35looked at the suspension after just four

51:37days.

51:39Reacting to Olmanski so social activism,

51:41the foreign national national

51:43nationalities branch of the federal

51:44office of strategic services opened a

51:47confidential file on him in 1943.

51:51Stannis Losmansky continued the parish

51:53until his death in 1960 which also made

51:55front page headlines in the city

51:57newspapers. In July 63, a devastating

52:00fire reportedly set by an alter boy

52:02destroyed much of the interior of the

52:041940 church building. Some interior

52:06furnishes were salvaged and a temporary

52:08chapel created in the school building

52:09itself an earlier version of the church.

52:12Reportedly, the structure had been

52:13insured and parishioners mounted various

52:15additional fundraising campaigns to

52:16restore and rebuild the structure. The

52:18exterior walls were retained. The

52:20building restoration did not start until

52:21October of 1964, pending insurance

52:24determinations and the neighborhood

52:26demolitions that were making way for

52:28I291.

52:29Repairs for the church continued through

52:311965.

52:33Indeed, urban renewal was steadily

52:34removing the neighborhoods of

52:35parishioners who had surrounded Our Lady

52:37of Rosary. In 1967, the central office

52:40of the Sisters of Holy Family of the

52:42Nazareth announced that it was

52:43withdrawing its nuns from Our Lady of

52:45Rosary School. The rationale given was

52:48the declining enrollment resulting in

52:50that resulted in double up classes.

52:52Moreover, fewer nouns in the order were

52:54available with the train training

52:56required to teach. The school of our

52:59lady of rosary post at the end of the

53:006667 academic year offers by the parish

53:04to the local public school district to

53:05use the fact to use the facility even

53:07rent free were declined.

53:10Throughout several decades, our Lady of

53:12Rosary congregants included many

53:14immigrant families and others all of

53:15monest means. Obituaries report the

53:18passings of founding members who had

53:19arrived mainly prior to World War I from

53:22Poland, Lithuania, and other parts of

53:23northeastern Europe, as well as

53:25parishioners who were children and

53:26grandchildren of those newcomers.

53:28Decedent occupations are described as

53:30machinist, foundry worker, cafeteria

53:32worker, warehouse worker, chauffeur,

53:34painter, railroad worker, and similar

53:36occupations. As late as 2017,

53:40not 2917, parishioners were still making

53:43donations to the church building fund.

53:46That these persons and their families

53:47value our lady of Rosary as a community

53:49and devoted their skills and time to

53:51building that community demonstrates its

53:52major significance to the cultural

53:54history of Springfield and to the

53:55region.

53:57And that I offer is just a preliminary

54:00because I think there's probably a lot

54:01more that could be found out um going to

54:05the city records, the building

54:07department and elsewhere.

54:10But I think what that research and that

54:12was I will say did not take me that long

54:17uh indicates that there's a lot more to

54:18this story than simply an Italian

54:20building and a you know midcentury

54:24modified school building. that that

54:26school building um and the church, you

54:30know, is the product of a community and

54:32it was uh held in high regard by that

54:35community, held dearly by that

54:36community. And I think that that's the

54:38the cultural heritage that we're talking

54:40about here and not simply realistically.

54:45Okay. Thank you for all that research

54:48and diligence on that,

54:51>> Mr. Chair. Okay. So,

54:54I'm sorry. Mr. Chairman,

54:57>> go ahead, Al.

54:58>> Um, number one, thank you, Kevin, for

55:01that because I think that sheds an a lot

55:04of light on why this is important not to

55:06just quickly get through it. The the one

55:09thing that as I looked at all the stuff

55:11in our email and so forth in the packet,

55:13what I find difficult from my architect

55:17standpoint is that

55:20it does not tell me really what is the

55:22condition of these these buildings is

55:26it's I don't see a structural engineers

55:30review or report saying you know this

55:32thing is in big trouble or it's surface

55:36that can be fixed kind of thing. So, um

55:40I I believe we were offered to go take a

55:42look. It probably be worth our while.

55:45So, we're not spending money to do

55:48further research if we find that it

55:51really is or one of them is severely not

55:54repairable, but we haven't seen it nor

55:57we have seen a report. So, you know, I'm

55:59willing to take a ride with whomever to

56:02go take a look at things. So may maybe

56:06consider that because as soon as we

56:08start smending city money to do research

56:12on something we haven't even seen, then

56:14it seems we're we're putting the horse

56:17before, you know, the c the cart before

56:20the horse.

56:23So, I'm willing to I'm willing to if

56:25they still allow us to go take a look,

56:27I'm willing to go through it

56:30unless unless they have unless they can

56:33show us a a real engineer the report.

56:36That's pretty simple.

56:38>> But still seeing it for our own eyes

56:39would probably be worth it.

56:43>> Is this not the Do we not have a

56:45structural report? Is this not

56:46>> uh the material that I received?

56:48>> Yeah, it is.

56:49>> Okay,

56:49>> that's what was sent today. There was a

56:51bunch of stuff that came for

56:52>> remal engineer. Yes. Okay. It's not a

56:55structural assessment of the building.

56:57>> Right. Well, that's the thing I was

56:59talking about. I read it as well. And

57:01while there's a lot of information in

57:02there, there's there's nothing. It's not

57:04really a structural report. It's a

57:06conditions report and how did this

57:09>> convert into multif family? And so

57:11there's some talk of it, but it's not.

57:13>> Yeah, absolutely. I just know we only

57:14received that today. So,

57:15>> right. Yeah. There's a lot I think that

57:16was the confusing. There was a lot of

57:17information that was sent over today.

57:19However, I think Al is spot on because

57:21uh there's basically an invite to come

57:23see the the structures, right? The

57:26property, which you'd want to do anyway,

57:29right? Especially since there isn't a

57:31structure report. And if the commission

57:34wants to pursue this, you'd want to see

57:36what it is anyway, right?

57:38>> Well,

57:40I think what I'm sorry for interrupting.

57:42I I think Kevin has proven to us that we

57:44have a history here,

57:46>> but we're also dealing with a structure.

57:49And that's the important part when it

57:50comes to, you know, do we want them to

57:55will can the structure be rehabilitated

57:58or not?

58:00Or which one of them can't? Maybe only

58:04one one of them can't and the other two

58:06are fine and dandy, but I don't see

58:10anything that that says a professional

58:12has looked nor have we seen it.

58:19>> I think there's and I think this is not

58:22contradicting what you're saying, but I

58:23think there's two distinct questions

58:24here. One is is this important cultural

58:29heritage for the city? Our job as the

58:31historical commission is to preserve and

58:33protect

58:34>> y

58:35>> the the heritage, you know, the history

58:37and architectural heritage of the city.

58:39So is is is that does that exist or are

58:42these this three generic buildings that

58:44happen to be at the corner of Lumberwood

58:45and Franklin?

58:47>> The other question is, you know, and

58:49it's actually maybe there's three

58:50questions. The other question is to to

58:52Al's point is in what condition are

58:54these buildings in and are they

58:56salvageable? And then the third question

58:58which I think is the question to the

59:00real estate developer is can they be

59:02used as apartment buildings and that's a

59:05distinct different question. So you know

59:07the school gymnasium building you know

59:11may not be appropriate to be refurbished

59:14as living space but it might be

59:17perfectly fine as a community center. In

59:19other words, there there is there are

59:21other uses for this property that that

59:23we ought to be considering and not

59:24simply the the uses that are being

59:27proposed for the site right this minute.

59:30>> So, I think that we need to keep that in

59:31mind. But I think the the point is well

59:34taken that you know obviously there'd be

59:37someone would need to take

59:38responsibility for

59:40for this for these structures. You know,

59:43they can't just be left as they will

59:45continue to degrade.

59:47>> Yeah. They're not generic.

59:52>> So is that there were several uh dates

59:54proposed. Is there any decision by the

59:58division on which of those dates might

1:00:01work with lower bases? Is this a

1:00:03situation where we can all go or is it

1:00:07>> I don't think so. Yeah, they still have

1:00:08a quora and you do have home city

1:00:11development here. So, I'm sure they can

1:00:13assist as well, but um if multiple dates

1:00:17were proposed and I admitly,

1:00:19>> you guys want to do you guys want to

1:00:22>> Yeah.

1:00:22>> highlight whatever what dates would be

1:00:25good. I know you put something in the

1:00:26email. Do you guys have the dates to

1:00:29>> pull it up? We could go in two separate

1:00:32teams.

1:00:33>> Yeah. Um well, Vinnie, you're down in

1:00:35Florida, correct? I am in Florida. Yes,

1:00:39>> for indefinitely.

1:00:40>> Not San Francisco?

1:00:42>> No, not San Francisco. That was just to

1:00:44throw you off. Uh, no. I'm in Florida

1:00:46till probably the 7th of November

1:00:50and then I'll be returning to Florida

1:00:52the beginning of January. Uh, I just

1:00:54want to throw two things while I got the

1:00:56floor a little bit.

1:00:58>> Thank you, Ke. Thank you, Kevin, for

1:00:59that. uh we we you know when we first

1:01:01spoke about it I don't think any of us

1:01:02had any doubt that there was his

1:01:04legitimate historic significance to

1:01:05these buildings when we did the the demo

1:01:07delay you you just put it in in really

1:01:12solidified the position and um that's

1:01:15something that we needed to have done I

1:01:16appreciate that you did that but also on

1:01:18the on the other side of it we don't

1:01:20have enough information without a site

1:01:23visit without reasonable structural

1:01:25engineer reports um because we don't

1:01:27want to start I mean there is legitimate

1:01:29that question. If if something cannot be

1:01:31saved legitimately, then we don't want

1:01:33to protect it under we might protect one

1:01:35building and not the other. But I'd love

1:01:37to have that information first. And and

1:01:40you know, as everybody knows, you can't

1:01:42have more than three counselors, three

1:01:43commissioners, I mean. So, you'd have to

1:01:45go two different site visits with

1:01:47different people. They all have to be

1:01:49different. One can't one person can't go

1:01:50to both. You can only go to one with two

1:01:52other people and then nothing else.

1:01:55My understanding of the uh of the rules

1:01:57is correct. So if everyone wants to see

1:02:00it, I don't know if you can already go

1:02:02through the dates that that work. Do you

1:02:05guys want

1:02:06>> Yeah. Um so we had provided and of

1:02:09course we can be flexible and provide

1:02:11more if these don't work but um the

1:02:14afternoon of next Monday um the 12th,

1:02:17the morning of Wednesday the 14th um

1:02:21sometime between 9 and 11:00 a.m. uh

1:02:25anytime on the following Monday the 19th

1:02:29and uh the morning of Tuesday the 20th.

1:02:34So I would recommend if everyone wants

1:02:36to see it here

1:02:38splitting up into groups of three

1:02:40through 10.

1:02:41>> Right. Well, if we if the 19th is opened

1:02:43all day, does the 19th work for people

1:02:46here? Because we could bring up five

1:02:49segments.

1:02:50>> I'm available on the 19th in the

1:02:52morning.

1:02:53>> Okay.

1:02:54>> So we could go into different times.

1:02:56>> That's what I'm saying. So

1:02:58>> you guys, yeah,

1:03:00>> maybe

1:03:01>> that's okay with you guys. It's like we

1:03:02do something early and then maybe an

1:03:05hour later or two hours later. Does that

1:03:06work? Y

1:03:08>> and and just so I could let me interject

1:03:10again and u attorney Sher can correct me

1:03:13if I'm wrong but to avoid any open

1:03:15meeting law problems the two separate

1:03:18but you can't then you can't discuss it

1:03:20either until the next open meeting.

1:03:22>> Right.

1:03:24>> Correct.

1:03:24>> You know so you can't we can't two

1:03:26groups can't go see it and then call the

1:03:28other other group and say it's we only

1:03:30been faced with it once. seven, eight,

1:03:32nine years ago. I forget how many a

1:03:34accusation of violating open meeting

1:03:36law. It was just over something just

1:03:38like this.

1:03:38>> Yeah, thanks for the clarification. I

1:03:40think some of us understand that, but I

1:03:42think it's great that it's kind of

1:03:43spelled out.

1:03:44>> I think most of us do, but I just was

1:03:46putting it for the record.

1:03:48>> Thank you.

1:03:50>> So, what was that date?

1:03:52>> It's Monday the 19th. Monday the 19th.

1:03:55>> 10 a.m. 10 a.m.

1:03:58>> So, maybe two times. you know 10 do 10

1:04:02and 12.

1:04:04>> Does that work for you folks?

1:04:07>> I I'm I'm okay for 10.

1:04:09>> I for 10.

1:04:12>> I can I can do 10.

1:04:13>> Okay. Marissa's in for 10.

1:04:16>> I could say what was the other time?

1:04:17>> 12.

1:04:18>> 12. I could take 12.

1:04:19>> Okay. 12.

1:04:22>> Okay. You do 10 and then I'll do 12.

1:04:24>> That's four people on on 10, isn't it?

1:04:27>> That's right.

1:04:28>> Great. So,

1:04:30>> got Kevin and Verissa

1:04:33and

1:04:3512. I'm in at 12.

1:04:38>> And I'll let Judy know that 12 is an

1:04:41option for her. She likes to attend.

1:04:43>> Yep.

1:04:45>> Then we'll meet you guys there.

1:04:48Appreciate you.

1:04:50>> Just one more thought. If if the

1:04:53developer has a structural engineer that

1:04:56they've been working with, I can't

1:04:57imagine that they don't maybe it'd be

1:05:00great to have him

1:05:02come to that those meetings

1:05:05or for comment

1:05:06>> and yeah and point out what we you know

1:05:08things that we can't see.

1:05:10>> Yeah, if that's a possibility. Y um so

1:05:14one of the documents that we provided

1:05:16actually one of the two primary

1:05:17documents was a structural report an

1:05:20engineer structural report. Um it sounds

1:05:24like maybe the report isn't in the

1:05:28format that you're used to seeing

1:05:32instead of what

1:05:33>> it's it's not a structural engineers

1:05:35report of the building.

1:05:37It says um the goal of the preliminary

1:05:40assessment to convert the building

1:05:42is to determine the feasibility of reuse

1:05:44from a structural perspective based on

1:05:47existing conditions and difficulty and

1:05:48alternate space to be usable and

1:05:50efficient as residences. And so he

1:05:53performed observation measurement in

1:05:55conjunction with code compliance review

1:05:59and he did a analysis in a stamp by

1:06:02>> so so typically what we would get is we

1:06:04would get

1:06:06basically something that says the

1:06:08building

1:06:09you know is either structurally safe or

1:06:11it's not and if it's not where not hey

1:06:14this has to be multif family if we're

1:06:16going to build multif family the

1:06:18structure is not good for multif family

1:06:21that's two different things One is for

1:06:23your use. One is just is the building

1:06:26does the building have structural

1:06:27issues. Right? So if you weren't going

1:06:29to use it for multif family might be

1:06:31okay, right? Or still might not be okay.

1:06:34So the so typically you would want to

1:06:37correct jump in. What if I'm if I'm off

1:06:39base there? But but typically the the

1:06:41report would just be you know like

1:06:43dragging it just the facts. Is it safe?

1:06:46Is it unsafe? Are there weak areas? Are

1:06:48the things that are structurally

1:06:48unsound? you know, the metrics about,

1:06:52you know, pounds per square inch, that's

1:06:53great. That's perfect.

1:06:56But the summary of whether or not it

1:06:58needs multif family,

1:07:00you know, that's you, that's for your

1:07:01use. That's not really whether or not

1:07:03that could continue to be used in some

1:07:05other fashion.

1:07:06>> Well, and I understand that. I know

1:07:08there was um you know, I understand

1:07:10difference between a structural report

1:07:12that would base it on the beatability

1:07:14for affordable housing and looking for

1:07:16the general assessment of whatever you

1:07:20And um obviously we really focus on

1:07:22housing. And so there's a lot of things

1:07:23that were indicated in this report that

1:07:25are structurally based whether it was

1:07:27for housing or not. And I think that I

1:07:30think for me I wanted to give you the

1:07:32opportunity to review it before you make

1:07:33any determination about when

1:07:36>> more information is always better. So we

1:07:37we appreciate you sharing it because we

1:07:38have so something is is always better

1:07:41than nothing, right? So so we appreciate

1:07:43that. So if they're if if that person's

1:07:46available, I mean, I don't have a

1:07:47recommendation on that or

1:07:50or feedback on what was provided.

1:07:53>> We have Well, they're not going to be

1:07:54able to do a structural assessment in

1:07:56the course of an hour walking through

1:07:57the building.

1:07:59>> That's a much larger project.

1:08:03>> And also, I haven't heard anything like

1:08:06that. building department has sent their

1:08:09uh you know inspector through the

1:08:11building and say this is safe to to

1:08:12remain open for even people to walk in.

1:08:17I you know many times when there's a

1:08:18fire usually there's something from the

1:08:21building department says hey it's either

1:08:24condemned or you can't go through it or

1:08:26until you fix this it should be closed

1:08:29so the public can't walk in. I haven't

1:08:32seen anything like that. And I'm getting

1:08:34a sense that what the engineers are

1:08:36trying to say is you're going to have to

1:08:38be very careful what you do here in this

1:08:41building. That's the sense I I get when

1:08:43I read it. So that's why I'm saying,

1:08:46okay, well,

1:08:49what forget what do you have to do? Why

1:08:52is it that you that I have to be very

1:08:54careful?

1:08:56Because you know the new codes are going

1:08:58to because it's a substantial

1:09:00renovation. The new codes are going to

1:09:02say you have to make sure this place can

1:09:05handle an earthquake,

1:09:07>> right?

1:09:07>> That's that's the big key here. And

1:09:09we're on an earthquake vault. So that's

1:09:13that's the only reason why I'm saying

1:09:15it's important to know.

1:09:20>> Okay. Okay.

1:09:22>> What um

1:09:29>> yeah I mean right it says there in the

1:09:31first paragraph that the goal of that

1:09:33assessment is to determine the

1:09:34feasibility of reuse as a structural

1:09:38>> yeah it's it's reusing max structure not

1:09:42you know you can spend money to repair

1:09:44any structural damage that you like

1:09:48>> I guess if I'm understanding Al

1:09:50correctly It's more a question of is

1:09:51there so much work that would need to be

1:09:54done that it's like this is a

1:09:55multi-million dollar project that the

1:09:57city would have to undertake, you know.

1:10:00>> Right. Right, Kevin. Right. That's what

1:10:02I'm saying.

1:10:03>> Yeah. Because I mean, you can you can

1:10:04fix anything

1:10:07>> with time and money. Well, expertise and

1:10:10time.

1:10:16>> Okay. So, we're agreed for a site visit

1:10:18on

1:10:20the 19th at 10 a.m. and with Al Marissa

1:10:23and Kevin

1:10:25>> and myself at 12

1:10:33>> without looking there. I will assume

1:10:35>> be the referee or you can see that we

1:10:37were there and who's there and we're

1:10:38talking with each other afterwards and

1:10:41>> um but to be clear we can talk among

1:10:45ourselves as to what we would like to

1:10:46do. No,

1:10:48>> three other talk to the other.

1:10:51>> We're not going to deliberate,

1:10:53>> right?

1:10:53>> Or not to have the appearance.

1:10:56>> Well, you have can you have attorney

1:10:57Shuchuck on so you he can actually tell

1:11:00us directly what

1:11:03we should be doing.

1:11:05>> Yeah, I will get you exactly what what

1:11:08can and can't be done by uh by Monday or

1:11:10the 19th because I'm not 100% positive

1:11:13of of the rules. Pretty sure Vinnie's

1:11:16correct, but I haven't I haven't done

1:11:18anything with two separate groups going

1:11:21at at the same time.

1:11:23>> The path is when we go, you ask

1:11:25questions,

1:11:26you see what you see, and questions are

1:11:29answered. What we don't usually do is

1:11:30sit there and talk like we're at a

1:11:32meeting. So, it's really to gather

1:11:34information. I mean, you're together,

1:11:36but it's almost like we're independently

1:11:38asking and answering things. So if any

1:11:40of us have a question with with them or

1:11:43something to see, you can ask direct

1:11:44questions, but

1:11:46you don't start talking with each other

1:11:49and proposing things or talking about

1:11:51different things.

1:11:52>> Mr. Chair,

1:11:54>> please.

1:11:55>> Yeah. One of the things you got to be

1:11:56careful of if they ask you a question,

1:12:00you can't give you can't really tell

1:12:01them what you might have what might come

1:12:03up in a public. You can't say, "Yeah,

1:12:05yeah, I think that's a pretty good

1:12:06idea." you because there you're

1:12:08predetermining something and not that

1:12:09should not supposed to be done except in

1:12:11that type of conversation is supposed to

1:12:13be held in a public hearing

1:12:16[clears throat] and and it's easy to do

1:12:17that when they say you know what do you

1:12:19think of this

1:12:20>> and you can't answer it you just say you

1:12:22know give me the information you have

1:12:24and and I'll you know return it to the

1:12:26commission so that's one of the traps

1:12:28you get into when I don't think any any

1:12:30of us are going to fall into it but that

1:12:32that's where the problems can arise and

1:12:35the number of people that's a specific

1:12:36specific part of the I want to say

1:12:38statute that uh if you have four you're

1:12:41you're have it has to be a public

1:12:42meeting so that's why we limit it to

1:12:44three

1:12:46>> to many's first point and attorney shoe

1:12:48truck if you can look into this maybe as

1:12:50well we're not in a public hearing

1:12:53setting so I don't know if that alters

1:12:57the conversation that you can have uh

1:13:00with the uh with home city involvement

1:13:03and anyone on site so Um

1:13:07>> you can't you know you can't give an

1:13:08opinion you can't suggest a way which

1:13:10you might

1:13:12>> yeah but yeah

1:13:16um and so I know

1:13:20had asked for our agenda item to be

1:13:24tabled. I don't know if you want to open

1:13:25it up to see if they have anything else

1:13:27to say regarding that matter or if the

1:13:31commission had anything to say regarding

1:13:33that matter. Well, yeah. I think

1:13:36>> we have we have their letter. I would

1:13:37like to hear from the commission on what

1:13:38the commission's thoughts are on

1:13:42>> the

1:13:44Yeah. I I would uh like to have a

1:13:49conversation about u the legal finding

1:13:52because it sounds to me from reading um

1:13:57attorney Suk's memo here that uh that

1:14:01the commission

1:14:03um can conduct the investigation itself

1:14:06and make the proposal to city council so

1:14:09that this is a self-contained

1:14:12uh process. Is that am I reading this

1:14:15correctly?

1:14:16>> Yeah. So, so be the historical

1:14:19commission as it is can be the the crew

1:14:22I guess that that does the study and all

1:14:25the and all that everything that's

1:14:27listed the report and everything like

1:14:29that.

1:14:39>> How does this affect the time? Is there

1:14:41a timeline question here?

1:14:43>> Uh, I guess my question or you want to

1:14:46answer that question? Have you filed a

1:14:48demolition permit yet?

1:14:49>> No.

1:14:50>> No. So, the 9month window has not yet

1:14:54started. Um, generally when uh a

1:15:00uh there's a denial of a waiver that

1:15:02gives the commissioner an opportunity

1:15:04gives them nine months to come up with a

1:15:07um the district if they want to go in

1:15:09that direction. Uh in this case since

1:15:11that clock hasn't started you know every

1:15:14day that the demolition permit is not

1:15:16filed there's more time the commission

1:15:18has before that 9 month period starts

1:15:30>> can I clarify question

1:15:33>> um in the beginning you had mentioned

1:15:34that um as part of the process in the

1:15:37beginning that we applied for a

1:15:38demolition delay waiver

1:15:40But I don't know if that's accurate

1:15:42because we never applied for the

1:15:43demolition permit. So my demolition

1:15:45permits waiver request will come after

1:15:48we applied for the demolition permit. So

1:15:50we were when we initially came we were

1:15:53under the um assumption that we were

1:15:55just merely presenting to the committee.

1:15:57I don't think we specifically requested

1:15:59a demolition waiver at that point in

1:16:00time. But I just wanted to kind of

1:16:02clarify that

1:16:02>> that's true. It came under as an

1:16:04advisory review. So, um there has yeah

1:16:08been um waiver request. So, thanks

1:16:12[clears throat] for the recommendation.

1:16:13>> Can I add a couple of uh points for um

1:16:17offer?

1:16:18>> Sure.

1:16:19>> So, um as you're familiar with Home

1:16:22City, Home City been a nonprofit

1:16:24affordable housing organization invested

1:16:25in the community for nearly 60 years

1:16:28now. And uh we take historic federation

1:16:31very seriously. We've done many historic

1:16:33federations throughout the city. booking

1:16:35school with one of those recent projects

1:16:36that we've done and we also contracted

1:16:39with Alabama construction um companies

1:16:42whatever you title and they're historic

1:16:44preservation company as well they've

1:16:46done a lot of that kind of work but at

1:16:48the same time when it comes to the

1:16:50Franklin Street project with the our

1:16:52lady of uh Rosary Church is you know

1:16:55we're looking at that as as an

1:16:57opportunity to provide a critical need

1:16:59in our community for affordable housing

1:17:01we know we've seen um reports all across

1:17:05the state that critical affordable

1:17:07housing, quality affordable housing is

1:17:09in need. And with knowing that the

1:17:11church in that campus has been vacant

1:17:14for several years and continuing to

1:17:16deteriorate,

1:17:18we took it upon ourselves to continue to

1:17:20investigate that to determine the

1:17:22feasibility of of development and

1:17:24housing. Now, there are other

1:17:26alternative use that we can look at, but

1:17:28that's not our business. We're not in

1:17:30the business of providing community

1:17:31space in terms of like flex space or any

1:17:33other kind of thing and the fact that we

1:17:36were the first person to come to the

1:17:38dasis after I don't know how long

1:17:43>> 15 years you know I think it was six

1:17:46eight years or something like that

1:17:47somewhere around there

1:17:48>> 2018 is from a perish

1:17:50>> um so so in such a short amount of time

1:17:52they continue to deteriorate and

1:17:54obviously you can see some of the

1:17:55pictures now the question is could it be

1:17:57salvageable or not And you know as a

1:18:00development organization that we take a

1:18:01lot of pride in the community and trying

1:18:04to enhance neighborhood enhance the

1:18:06community we heard the advers impact

1:18:10loud and clear and that's why we spent

1:18:12you know nearly we spent and include

1:18:14$125,000 development expenses as a small

1:18:17nonprofit affordable housing

1:18:18organization to try to demonstrate due

1:18:21diligence and effort to show that we're

1:18:24just not here to raise everything.

1:18:26Although that's sometimes the easier

1:18:28process, right? But that's why we kind

1:18:29of look and shifted our gear to saying,

1:18:32okay, this building is fundamentally

1:18:35structurally sound and it determined

1:18:37that the church was structurally sound

1:18:39enough to be able to have an adaptive

1:18:41reuse component directory. I mean, it's

1:18:43a beautiful building. I don't get me

1:18:45wrong, but it's unsafe to even go into.

1:18:48And so, um, so I think, you know, I want

1:18:50to kind of let the commission know and I

1:18:52appreciate the, um, the cultural impact

1:18:54definitely, but I think there's

1:18:55alternative ways to acknowledge and

1:18:57honor the cultural, um, history of that

1:19:01campus and how we look at that and but

1:19:03at the same time, how do we benefit the

1:19:04community in terms of providing quality

1:19:06affordable housing and looking at a

1:19:09building that has already been vacant

1:19:10and from my point, nobody has really

1:19:13come forward to even propose any

1:19:15alternative plan because is incredibly

1:19:18expensive and we are relying on state

1:19:21resources to be able to do that and

1:19:22without that assistance and that's one

1:19:24of the reason why I offer and I

1:19:26apologize to local commission for going

1:19:28to the state historic first but most of

1:19:31our funding well actually all of our

1:19:33funding 99% of it is through this EOCC

1:19:37which is our state agency and we wanted

1:19:39to make sure that they had that it was

1:19:41truly feasable in their perspective

1:19:43before we go through this whole other

1:19:45process because if it wasn't beatable

1:19:47based on their perspective then the

1:19:49project couldn't move forward right but

1:19:52working with MAC MAC and EOCC we were

1:19:56able to determine that is feable based

1:19:58on mitigating effects and now this is

1:20:00the opportunity to talk about those

1:20:02mitigating effects and does it meet the

1:20:04the local historic commission's um

1:20:07approval and what input and other um

1:20:10comments that you have and that's where

1:20:12we're kind of at now and we invite you

1:20:15to come and look at the building and see

1:20:17firsthand the hard work that you know we

1:20:19put into in terms of due diligence to

1:20:21see why you know unfortunately we were

1:20:24proposing to demolish two building but

1:20:26again I think the the impact to save the

1:20:29church whether it's you know I mean even

1:20:32when we met with the preservation uh

1:20:35trust right

1:20:37um they said the church were the least

1:20:40significantly historically significant

1:20:42building out of the other two and

1:20:45again I mean but it just happened to be

1:20:47in better condition and and a

1:20:49structurally sound and we're able to use

1:20:52that. So, but I say from a nonprofit

1:20:54organization, we're invested in the

1:20:56community, but we're also a small

1:20:57organization and we get it. It's all

1:20:59about use. So,

1:21:00>> what's that?

1:21:01>> We get it. It's it's about your use and

1:21:03that's you know your goal. So, we

1:21:06appreciate that.

1:21:07>> Okay. Perfect.

1:21:08>> Okay.

1:21:10>> May I ask something? Right. I am a

1:21:13little I see that you've done the

1:21:15preliminary structural analysis, but I

1:21:19don't really see any

1:21:23>> what you're going to do with the

1:21:25property that you would like to develop.

1:21:29Is that

1:21:30>> we would be happy to share with the

1:21:31plans that we have with the commission.

1:21:34>> That would be great.

1:21:36some preliminary plan and um

1:21:41>> I saw

1:21:42>> but it doesn't show the elevation. It

1:21:44just show the site plan. You see the

1:21:46site plan.

1:21:47>> Yeah.

1:21:48>> And the epsilon packet.

1:21:50>> Y

1:21:50>> you'll see the site plan, but we can

1:21:52definitely send you the full package

1:21:54that we have currently and actually

1:21:56we'll just fine-tune that like literally

1:21:59like a week ago. So um and because we

1:22:02again we shifted to preserving the

1:22:04church and so that requires some

1:22:06additional analysis but we can

1:22:07definitely share that with um with the

1:22:10commission so we can see the elevation

1:22:12the rendering and how we're trying to

1:22:14match into the fabric of the community

1:22:16with our

1:22:18>> um I sent an email to specifically to Al

1:22:22Nardi um a day or two ago and included

1:22:25Andrew on that email and that email has

1:22:27a link to the Dropbox that has all of

1:22:29the reports and it includes fairly

1:22:32detailed plans and rent rates. Um, so

1:22:35Andrew, are you able to share that link

1:22:37with the rest of the commission?

1:22:39>> Yes,

1:22:40>> I was able to source that might have

1:22:41been

1:22:42>> my

1:22:47came in just came in yesterday.

1:22:51>> I didn't see it. Sorry.

1:22:53>> So that's in here. Is there a particular

1:22:56>> It looks like up top of the drawings.

1:22:59This one.

1:23:03>> Yes,

1:23:08>> that's the site.

1:23:10Scroll down and we'll see what they're

1:23:14[snorts]

1:23:57This is this project is over a

1:23:59multi-block area. So there's multiple

1:24:01parcels. some of it within the existing

1:24:04campus and some of it home city already

1:24:06um owns and it's in conjunction with it

1:24:09very close approximately to our existing

1:24:10development which is old town homes and

1:24:12so we already have a vested presence and

1:24:15interest in Missouri that neighborhood

1:24:18>> just out of curiosity what's the total

1:24:20budget for this

1:24:27>> you projected

1:24:29>> yeah to build to build [clears throat]

1:24:31your

1:24:31>> redvel that site. How much does that

1:24:34cost

1:24:35>> between right right now? We have a rough

1:24:38estimate. Um but you just have the hard

1:24:41costs.

1:24:42>> I would say total development cost is

1:24:4650 north than $50 million.

1:24:48>> 50 million.

1:24:48>> Yeah. 60 actually.

1:24:50>> Y.

1:24:52>> So that's significant money.

1:24:54>> What's the total number of units?

1:24:57>> 51. 51

1:24:59>> over all the campuses com.

1:25:01>> Yep. Okay.

1:25:03>> So about a million dollars a unit.

1:25:07>> And I don't know if I can ask this, but

1:25:09are the other empty or they're

1:25:12>> Yeah. So site C is a vacant lot. Site B

1:25:17is the existing church parking lot. So

1:25:19>> and then site D is an existing three

1:25:22family house that we already own that

1:25:23been vacant that we've been waiting for

1:25:25this type of project. Gotcha.

1:25:36I misspoke. It's 35 million.

1:25:40>> Yeah, because it was because I did

1:25:42remember that it was 700,000 a unit, not

1:25:44over,

1:25:46>> but it is 7,000.

1:25:53>> Yeah, that link wasn't working for me.

1:25:55But what I'm looking at, whether you

1:25:57scroll through this, somebody's taken

1:25:59the time to start blending the older

1:26:02masonry materials and so forth. So,

1:26:05somebody's done some work to try to do

1:26:07that here.

1:26:21So you see the uh the row pictured above

1:26:25the church that um site a west

1:26:28perspective just above it. We

1:26:30specifically designed that to be more of

1:26:32like a row house brownstone kind of

1:26:34appeal and the idea of that is it's a

1:26:37two family. Each section is a two family

1:26:40and so after the 15 year of the

1:26:42compliance period it would be eligible

1:26:44to first-time home buyer the existing

1:26:46tenant to become a homeowner of the

1:26:48section not section

1:26:52>> y

1:26:58anything else from commissioner any

1:27:00questions

1:27:02>> no but thank you for bringing this up

1:27:06>> great thanks for sharing Um, should we

1:27:08make a motion on this?

1:27:12>> What is the

1:27:14>> Well, so we're going to have a site

1:27:15We're going to make a site visit

1:27:18to the site. Yeah. Um, then we'll have a

1:27:21meeting. We'll have a commission meeting

1:27:24that week. Um, we still have the open

1:27:26question of exploring the formation of a

1:27:28study committee for the purposes of

1:27:29creating a historic district.

1:27:32So, so, so maybe the motion should be

1:27:34before we start the study, we're going

1:27:37to uh make a site visit in order to

1:27:40assess what we can as to the structural

1:27:43integrity of what's there

1:27:48as part one as step one.

1:27:55>> What is what are we being asked to do? I

1:27:59know what we like to do, but what are we

1:28:01being asked to do?

1:28:04>> Well, I'm asking the commission to

1:28:06consider

1:28:08designating the historic district.

1:28:11Um, and in order to do that, there's a

1:28:14process that we need to follow. Um, so

1:28:17before we get to the point of making the

1:28:19determination about whether to propose

1:28:21it as a historic district, we have a an

1:28:23investigatory process. So I guess my

1:28:26question is what's the

1:28:28what is envisioned here as the steps? We

1:28:31are going to go make a site visit on

1:28:33Monday the 19th and we'll have a meeting

1:28:36[snorts] or will be the meeting will be

1:28:37on November 9th.

1:28:38>> So November 9th

1:28:39>> yeah

1:28:41at the November 9th meeting we should be

1:28:43able to make a determination.

1:28:45>> Right.

1:28:45>> Right. That makes some kind of sense.

1:28:47We'll have more information. We'll be

1:28:49able to make determination whether or

1:28:51not to go forward with doing the study.

1:28:54All right. Then I'd like to make a

1:28:55motion that we uh that we conduct the

1:28:58site visit and reconvene on the question

1:29:01of um meeting a historic district at Our

1:29:06Lady of Rosary Church campus at the

1:29:08November 9th.

1:29:12I'm sorry.

1:29:12>> November 5th commission meeting.

1:29:17>> Okay. Is there a second?

1:29:19>> Second.

1:29:21Okay. Any discussion on that?

1:29:23Okay. All those in favor?

1:29:25>> I I

1:29:26>> Any opposed? Okay.

1:29:30Site visit and then um discuss on the

1:29:33November 5th meeting.

1:29:35>> Thank you. We appreciate it.

1:29:37>> Thank you.

1:29:37>> Thank you guys for coming in and sharing

1:29:39this information. We'll see you right

1:29:40soon.

1:29:44>> Okay. Um next item, Andrew.

1:29:47>> Next item I guess would be let's do Bay

1:29:49Street. Um, as requested by the

1:29:53commission at our last meeting, um, I

1:29:56drafted a

1:29:58letter to Mass Historic. I generally try

1:30:01to keep these within one page. Yep.

1:30:03>> So, um, I made sure that

1:30:08you want me to read it into the record.

1:30:09Does anyone have a com before you get

1:30:11started? I I'm not sure. I think I

1:30:13discussed it with Andrew, but um in 20

1:30:16the why the the property is why it was

1:30:20sold. Um in 2014, the homeowner passed

1:30:24away in the heirs um instead of you know

1:30:28transferred to the heirs and the heirs

1:30:30just didn't let it fall into disrepair

1:30:32up until recently. Um so the city's code

1:30:36enforcement

1:30:38um asked for a receiver to be

1:30:41um you know receiver to be appointed to

1:30:45and a receiver is appointed and the

1:30:47house was sold to home city development.

1:30:49That's why why the um it's owned by who

1:30:51it is by home city. So basically

1:30:55>> who I'm sorry it's it's

1:30:59>> yeah I'm Yeah. So that that's how how

1:31:01they they purchase it. There's no um so

1:31:04it went it went from the owner who

1:31:06passed away in 2014 and it fell into

1:31:08disrepair because the heirs didn't

1:31:10really maintain it and then code

1:31:12enforcement stepped in had a receiver

1:31:13signed and the receiver sold it um

1:31:16recently they sold it in November of

1:31:202025.

1:31:22>> Yeah. But this this

1:31:24while it was in receiverhip they came to

1:31:26us

1:31:28>> they came to the commission.

1:31:31>> Right. I I don't

1:31:33>> 56.

1:31:34>> My recollection

1:31:35>> was it 52? Well, wayfinders came to us

1:31:38in 50 for 52 to demolish it. Did

1:31:42something happen before started?

1:31:44>> This is 56. There were two buildings on

1:31:46the site.

1:31:47>> Yeah.

1:31:48>> I think the receiverhip though happened

1:31:51before all of that which is one of the

1:31:54questions raised at the last meeting is

1:31:57if there was an RFP process.

1:31:59>> Well, that's right. But again, if they

1:32:01were getting it from the city through a

1:32:04receiver, they knew enough that they had

1:32:06that it was in historic and they had to

1:32:08come for permission to do anything.

1:32:11>> So whether it was through the city or an

1:32:13RFP,

1:32:14>> yeah,

1:32:15>> city knew about it,

1:32:17>> wayfinders knew about it,

1:32:19>> right? So

1:32:20>> yeah, uh I can say with an RFP process,

1:32:24I think I have a little bit more direct

1:32:26involvement because uh the office of

1:32:29community or the department of community

1:32:31development will reach out to me and ask

1:32:33me specifically are there any

1:32:35requirements

1:32:36>> actually. So you got you got uh attorney

1:32:38shoe truck on. So if it went through

1:32:39receiverhip,

1:32:41there's still rules in receiverhip

1:32:45being custody of the city. They still

1:32:48have to file court full sprint. they

1:32:49still have to follow historic commission

1:32:51guidelines. They're just they're just

1:32:53caring for the property

1:32:56>> um because the homeowner can't. And then

1:32:58at the end of that process, either the

1:33:00homeowner buys it back or the receiver

1:33:03can take it,

1:33:04>> right?

1:33:04>> Yeah. I asked I asked I asked the um

1:33:07code enforcement for the purchase and

1:33:08sale agreement to see if I could find

1:33:10anything about that, but they haven't

1:33:11responded to my my emails yet. So

1:33:13>> yeah, because it's there's there's still

1:33:15there's still rules and responsibilities

1:33:18and you know, you still got to you still

1:33:20got to follow the law and whatever the

1:33:22code enforcement is and whatever zoning

1:33:24is, right? It doesn't matter whether the

1:33:26city owned it, it was an RFP or it was

1:33:29um you know, so

1:33:33whatever the agreement was or how it was

1:33:34sold there, somebody should be held

1:33:36accountable for, you know,

1:33:40>> Yeah. Yeah, and like I said, I I I still

1:33:41haven't seen the the purchase and sale

1:33:43agreement. That might have been

1:33:44something in there, but um I I have an

1:33:47email out to code enforcement, but I

1:33:49they haven't responded yet.

1:33:51>> Thank you.

1:33:52>> Yep.

1:33:52>> Yeah, it'll be interesting to see what

1:33:55what the purchase agreement says.

1:33:57>> Yeah, because if it's under receiverhip,

1:33:59somebody's still has responsibilities

1:34:02just like any other property manager

1:34:05>> or owner.

1:34:06So, they should have brought it to this

1:34:08commission. They should have know well

1:34:10they should know better. They're they're

1:34:11they're caring for the property.

1:34:13>> Yes.

1:34:14>> Um for the city of Springfield, right?

1:34:19>> So

1:34:22um

1:34:27not

1:34:29change subjects drama. But yeah, so this

1:34:32is, you know, the other half of this

1:34:34issue is with Mass Historic not even

1:34:38>> right

1:34:39>> reviewing it. So, uh, this is what I've

1:34:41I've written for them. Uh, if you guys

1:34:44are okay with it, I can,

1:34:46>> uh, I can get that sent out.

1:34:48>> Al, did you read that? I thought it was

1:34:50good, but your name's on it, so it's

1:34:52important that you're okay with it.

1:34:59Or am I correct in understanding that so

1:35:02no review was done?

1:35:04>> That's my understanding. They didn't

1:35:06respond by masses or there was no review

1:35:09at the city level either.

1:35:10>> No, because they didn't

1:35:11>> because they didn't they didn't.

1:35:14>> Yeah.

1:35:14>> They didn't need to.

1:35:16>> They essentially getting out on a

1:35:18loophole.

1:35:18>> Yeah.

1:35:21>> Different than if it expired, a meeting

1:35:23expired and approved by default.

1:35:26That's essentially what happened.

1:35:30Right. Well, I understand that part, but

1:35:34NASA's story should also know that

1:35:36they're not the ultimate arbiter.

1:35:42>> I guess could you maybe rephrase

1:35:46the question?

1:35:47>> Well, he put in there basically that,

1:35:49you know, if it had come to us that it

1:35:51does have a negative impact on the

1:35:53neighborhood and land,

1:35:54>> right? Yeah. So the qu and there's I

1:35:57guess it's a maybe it's a a larger

1:36:00question that doesn't need to be

1:36:01addressed if it's any word but

1:36:06maybe disharten is not the strong enough

1:36:08word. Yeah. I mean I'm happy to change

1:36:11whatever word or change that word. I

1:36:13kind of I understand it's soft but at

1:36:16the same time

1:36:19you know it's I assume they're probably

1:36:21going to read this and move on with

1:36:23their writings. Unfortunately,

1:36:33>> is Al still with us? You might have

1:36:34logged out. Al, you still online?

1:36:37>> I'm still online. I'm not talking too

1:36:38much. I'm c starting to cough too much.

1:36:40I'm not really hearing everything.

1:36:42Sorry.

1:36:43>> It's okay. You okay with the letter or

1:36:45do you want a stronger word than uh than

1:36:47disappointed?

1:36:48>> Dishart.

1:36:49>> Disheartened. And then I have

1:36:51disappointed.

1:36:53You you you if you want

1:36:55>> all the disses

1:36:56>> if you want to make it a little

1:36:57stronger, it's okay with me. Um

1:37:01I'm okay if you want to change it to a

1:37:03stronger word.

1:37:11>> I can run that for this tomorrow.

1:37:14>> Okay. [laughter]

1:37:17>> All right. Well, I guess I Yeah, I don't

1:37:20want to put words yet.

1:37:23our chairman's mouth or on his letter.

1:37:26>> Okay.

1:37:27>> I need a few words.

1:37:29>> Well, so there's we're disappointed, but

1:37:32it's there's more to it than that. If

1:37:34there if it's circumventing a process, I

1:37:37think we should call that out.

1:37:39>> Yeah.

1:37:39>> You know, that this is not just it's not

1:37:42like you broke our hearts. It's you you

1:37:44ran around the way that this is supposed

1:37:46to work.

1:37:47>> Yeah.

1:37:47>> So, why don't you add that right in that

1:37:50first sentence? Yeah, I'm gonna add that

1:37:52right here. I can put um you know it in

1:37:57circumventing a review,

1:37:59>> right? Yeah.

1:38:01>> Right.

1:38:02>> Completely circ the

1:38:05responsibility and overview that that

1:38:08everyone else has to have. So

1:38:11essentially they got pre preferential

1:38:13treatment.

1:38:14>> You know this poor lady trying and these

1:38:17guys get a pass.

1:38:19>> Yeah. You know, typically your first

1:38:21sent your first sentence is the mindset.

1:38:23So, include that right in the first

1:38:25sentence.

1:38:26>> Okay, I'll add that right in.

1:38:28>> Yeah,

1:38:30sounds good.

1:38:36>> Okay,

1:38:36>> good. Good idea.

1:38:37>> Y

1:38:40Okay.

1:38:42All right, Andrew. So, you make that

1:38:44adjustment?

1:38:44>> Yep. And we'll make that.

1:38:47>> Okay. Uh updates.

1:38:49>> Uh we do have appointment of commission

1:38:51officers. We have six people and I don't

1:38:54know if we'll ever

1:38:56>> Well, I know we will at some point get

1:38:58seven again, but six might be the best

1:39:00we do for a little bit of time because I

1:39:02know Judy's out for October and November

1:39:04because of the program she's in. So, uh

1:39:07now is the time to re our reappoint or

1:39:11appoint however you guys want to proceed

1:39:14officer. So we have the chair and vice

1:39:16chair.

1:39:20>> Does the chair vice chair I think?

1:39:24>> Hi.

1:39:25Does anyone I mean does anyone want to

1:39:27want to serve or want to suggest a slate

1:39:30of officers?

1:39:31>> No, I was going to nominate you.

1:39:32>> Yeah. Okay.

1:39:34>> I think I think today's chairman would

1:39:36do very well if he'd like to take over

1:39:37the position. He's doing very well with

1:39:39it.

1:39:42I have no

1:39:46>> I would second that. I agree with uh

1:39:50excellent commissioner chair Nardy not

1:39:53to you did a great job but it's it's

1:39:55good to switch off. Nobody wants to do

1:39:57it as long as I did. No.

1:40:00>> And um and and I and I think both Al,

1:40:04you did a great job and I and I think

1:40:05Walter is is certainly

1:40:08coming in as as a pretty solid position

1:40:10to take over for a while.

1:40:12>> So

1:40:13>> I agree.

1:40:15>> I second that motion.

1:40:18>> Well, did we make the motion?

1:40:19>> I thought we I made the motion and

1:40:22Vinnie seconded.

1:40:24>> Yeah, we got a second and a third there.

1:40:26>> Okay.

1:40:30Okay. Need to vote.

1:40:33>> All right. Well, all those in favor

1:40:36>> I

1:40:36>> I

1:40:38>> I and I will accept.

1:40:39>> I

1:40:40>> appreciate the support and we'll try to

1:40:42live up to your expectations.

1:40:48>> And now we got to come up with a vice

1:40:50>> chair

1:40:51>> and love to

1:40:53>> since you booted me out of vice chair.

1:40:55We have a recommendation or someone want

1:40:57to volunteer to be vice chair.

1:41:04>> I would like to put Vanna's name in for

1:41:07that.

1:41:10>> I I am grateful, but I need to pass this

1:41:15year. Perhaps next year. This year.

1:41:18Okay.

1:41:23Kevin, Marissa,

1:41:24>> Kevin, would you be interested?

1:41:26>> You guys are dead here.

1:41:27>> No, I respectfully,

1:41:30>> we're such wimps. [laughter]

1:41:35>> We're running out of We're running out

1:41:36of heads.

1:41:36>> No, unfortunately, I've had a number of

1:41:39scheduling conflicts this year. I don't

1:41:41feel like I've

1:41:42>> been able to show up as much as a vice

1:41:44chair should. So, um that's that's where

1:41:48I'm at.

1:41:49>> Wow. Unfortunat

1:41:53I'll offer to be in charge of vice if

1:41:55that if that helps the vote.

1:41:58>> I'd nominate El Nardi for vice chair

1:42:00next year.

1:42:01>> I second that.

1:42:03>> All those in favor for Alvari for vice

1:42:05chair.

1:42:05>> I

1:42:06>> I

1:42:08excit

1:42:18No. Typically there's a clerk but all

1:42:20the clerk duties are done by staff

1:42:25>> the staff and thank you for all your

1:42:27work because

1:42:29>> make a motion that

1:42:31>> could have benefited from a little spice

1:42:32or something or thought

1:42:35>> oh I thought that was you know

1:42:40>> go ahead

1:42:41>> I was just going to make a motion to

1:42:42acknowledge that that Andrew's done a

1:42:44fabulous job and and uh keep up the good

1:42:48seconded.

1:42:50>> Yeah,

1:42:50>> they're here.

1:42:52>> Um, thank you.

1:42:55>> Where are we with the um new building?

1:42:58>> Oh, yeah. So, let me uh do the

1:43:00administrative updates then. Yeah.

1:43:02>> Um I have a second pattern there

1:43:07applicability in here somewhere.

1:43:11>> And one of them I think was a home

1:43:13historic home. Nope, that was the last

1:43:15one. Okay. But just a few uh basically

1:43:17roots front porches with you know the

1:43:20same materials. Um in your packet you

1:43:23will have updated new construction

1:43:26guidelines. Um commissioner um

1:43:31uh went through and really helped me

1:43:33with giving a second eye. Basically it's

1:43:35just grammatical

1:43:37uh mistakes. So, um I think that will I

1:43:41have it on the 15th October 15th agenda

1:43:44to adopt. Um

1:43:47>> yay.

1:43:49>> So, um I think we've gone through all

1:43:52comments. Um

1:43:54>> yes,

1:43:54>> I know Kiara from uh Springfield

1:43:58Preservation Trust is online. if you

1:43:59want to email me tomorrow, Tara, I'll

1:44:02get you the upto-date version. But uh

1:44:05we've gone through all

1:44:07>> on that. And um

1:44:11there was one thing.

1:44:12>> Yes.

1:44:12>> So Lana this to me earlier in the

1:44:18description of art deco.

1:44:20Um would it be prudent to remove the

1:44:23word plastic?

1:44:26So aluminum, phenyl formaldahhide,

1:44:28plywood and wood veneer finishes and

1:44:30remove the word plastic

1:44:33>> starts to opate any

1:44:35>> presentations where they build a house.

1:44:37>> Plastic's typically not a good

1:44:39preservation where where it's where

1:44:41where they showed up and the house is

1:44:43entirely made of vinyl.

1:44:44>> Yeah.

1:44:44>> Right.

1:44:45>> So

1:44:48the last deco

1:44:51plastic or is that

1:44:53>> no plastic? Good. In an introduction

1:44:56under art deck, it says phen

1:44:58formaldahhide plastics and I would

1:45:00suggest just plastic

1:45:03formaldahhide.

1:45:04>> I don't think that's okay. I don't think

1:45:07I for

1:45:09>> they can use your word.

1:45:10>> Okay. Um I will remove that. The only

1:45:14thing I would mention before we end is I

1:45:16know the Springfield Federation Trust

1:45:18did submit public comment for the our

1:45:21lady rosary um that we didn't really

1:45:24talk about. Um maybe that's something we

1:45:27read in under speakout.

1:45:29>> Yeah. Well, you could read it in the

1:45:30public speakout or we could read it in

1:45:32on November 5th. Talk about the

1:45:35>> Yeah, I mean that that works on November

1:45:385th. So I said

1:45:39>> uh if Sierra um is November 5th fine to

1:45:43read that into the the records.

1:45:47>> That should be fine. It's actually the

1:45:49same comments we submitted in June. So

1:45:52it's

1:45:53>> okay.

1:45:54>> Yeah. And I think I think part of

1:45:56commissioner's coffee summary touched on

1:45:58a lot of those as well, but we could

1:46:00certainly read it in we'll read the

1:46:02entire thing in on on Monday the 5th if

1:46:04that's okay.

1:46:04>> Okay. So

1:46:06>> thank you.

1:46:07There's no correspondence.

1:46:09Um, and so then we move the call. Okay.

1:46:14So, Thursday the 15th.

1:46:17>> I will be there.

1:46:18>> I'll be in here.

1:46:20>> I will.

1:46:22>> Excellent. I will.

1:46:24>> I will.

1:46:26>> They're all gonna be married in a

1:46:27minute.

1:46:30>> Thanks, Senator.

1:46:32>> Um, yes, I should be.

1:46:34>> Michelle Walsh, you gonna be online? I

1:46:36expect to be online. Yes.

1:46:38>> Okay. Al online unless you can be in

1:46:41person.

1:46:43I

1:46:43>> think he I think he went off because he

1:46:45was coughing. So, we'll just get there.

1:46:48>> There he is.

1:46:49>> Okay.

1:46:50>> Alan, would you do you expect to be

1:46:51attending the meeting on the 15th?

1:46:53Either in person or online?

1:46:55>> On the 5th.

1:46:57>> 15th.

1:46:58>> 15th of November.

1:47:00>> October.

1:47:00>> October. This month, like in two weeks.

1:47:02>> Yes, I will be there.

1:47:04>> Okay. Oh, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait.

1:47:07Just let me make sure.

1:47:08>> Thursday.

1:47:11>> Uh, Thursday night football that night.

1:47:17>> Is it true that you spent some time on

1:47:18Wall Street working as a clerk before

1:47:20you got into

1:47:26>> I I in I I may try I have something, but

1:47:31I may try to be able to change it. I

1:47:32will let you know.

1:47:34>> Okay. Okay. So, you're a strong baby.

1:47:36>> Yes. [laughter]

1:47:36>> Okay.

1:47:37>> And Judy will be absent.

1:47:38>> Judy, I just assume Judy will be absent.

1:47:41Okay. So, there you go. So, we'll have a

1:47:42forum for the 58.

1:47:47>> And that agenda isn't too bad.

1:47:50>> There's not much on there so far.

1:47:52>> Okay. Anything for public speakout?

1:47:57I commend I commend the commission on

1:48:00everything they've done today and thank

1:48:02you for considering making Our Lady

1:48:05Rosary Historical District and taking

1:48:08good steps towards it. I appreciate all

1:48:11of your hard work as uh representative

1:48:14for Springfield Preservation Trust 74

1:48:17Walnut Street.

1:48:19>> Thank you, Carol. Nice.

1:48:20>> Thank you very much. Anyone else?

1:48:25Okay. Hearing none, I would entertain a

1:48:27motion to dismiss some movement. All

1:48:29those in favor?

1:48:31>> Thanks everybody.

1:48:32>> Bye.