2026-10-13 - City Council Special Meeting

00:45So, once you're ready to call the

00:46meeting to order, I'll begin the roll

00:47call.

00:47>> Yeah, I'm good.

00:50You let me know when everything's up and

00:51running.

00:54>> Okay, it's now 7:10. The council will

00:56come to order.

00:58All rise and salute the flag.

01:01I pledge allegiance to the flag of the

01:03United States of America and to the

01:05republic for which it stands, one nation

01:08under God, indivisible, with liberty and

01:11justice for all. Please remain standing

01:14for a moment of silence in honor of our

01:15veterans, service members, and those who

01:17have given the ultimate sacrifice.

01:25Tonight, we honor and acknowledge the

01:26Massachusetts, Pennacook, and Pawtucket

01:28peoples whose ancestral lands we now

01:30call home and on which we gather today.

01:34We express gratitude to the indigenous

01:35peoples who have cared for this land for

01:37generations, predating European

01:39colonization, and continuing to the

01:41present.

01:42Moving forward, we are committed to

01:44ensuring that the histories, voices, and

01:46contributions of indigenous peoples are

01:49recognized and respected in the life of

01:51our city.

01:52At this time, will the clerk call the

01:53roll?

01:58>> See really well.

02:00>> Councilor Clone Hayes

02:02>> Here.

02:03>> Councilor Condon

02:04>> Here.

02:04>> Councilor Crowe

02:05>> Here.

02:06>> Councilor Luong

02:07>> Here.

02:07>> Councilor McDonald

02:08>> Here.

02:09>> Councilor O'Malley

02:10>> Here.

02:11>> Councilor Seka

02:12>> Here.

02:12>> Councilor Siminelli is not with us this

02:14evening.

02:14>> Okay.

02:15>> Councilor Taylor

02:16>> Here.

02:16>> Councilor Winslow

02:17>> Here.

02:18>> Council President Linehan

02:19>> Here.

02:19>> Thank you. We have 10 people in

02:20attendance.

02:21>> Thank you, Clerk.

02:22Okay, under the provisions of the open

02:24meeting law for everyone in attendance,

02:26please be informed that UMA Urban Media

02:28Arts will be recording this evening's

02:29meeting. So, just be aware there will be

02:32audio and video recordings of tonight's

02:34meeting.

02:35Is anyone else present tonight who's

02:36recording in addition to UMA? If so,

02:39could you please raise your hand, make

02:41yourself Thank you so much. So, just to

02:44be aware there is someone else in the

02:45audience recording. We just like to let

02:47folks know. Thank you.

02:49On to our first order of business.

02:53>> The City Council will receive a complete

02:55review of the Flock Safety Program as

02:57presented by the City Solicitor, Police

02:59Chief, Malden Police Community Advisory

03:01Council, Controller's office, and all

03:04other relevant city departments and

03:05officials, which will include all

03:07contracts, exhibits, amendments,

03:08renewals, purchase orders, policies, and

03:10related agreements.

03:12>> Okay, thank you to our Clerk. So, just

03:14to set the tone for tonight's

03:15conversation,

03:17um we do have representatives from our

03:19legal, our Controller, our Police

03:21Department, and I'm sure many other

03:23teams watching tonight. Um what I'd like

03:26to do is to start off by welcoming our

03:28Chief and Detective Mulcahy to the

03:30podium to give a brief presentation. Um

03:33they're going to give an overview of

03:34Flock, how we use Flock in the City of

03:36Malden, um and then at that time, after

03:39the conclusion of that presentation, um

03:42we are going to start to take questions

03:44from the Council. Um I know we have

03:46other departments, as I mentioned, that

03:47are here. If uh questions come up

03:49related to legal, financial, um anything

03:52that the police department's not able to

03:54answer,

03:55um,

03:55I would ask folks to hold their

03:57questions until the conclusion of the

03:59chief's presentation just so that we can

04:01kind of get into it a little bit and

04:02then we'll pause and take the council

04:04questions at that time.

04:06We have as much time as we need tonight.

04:08We've docketed this to be the sole item

04:11on our agenda this evening so that we

04:12can really focus on this topic. Um,

04:16as you all know, we had a resolution a

04:17few weeks ago where we agreed that we

04:19wanted to come back and talk about this

04:21as a dedicated topic and to record it.

04:24Um, I want to thank Uma for being here

04:27on a committee of the whole night so

04:28that we can have a recording of the

04:29meeting. The community, I know, has been

04:32very interested in asking all the

04:33council members about this and this is

04:35something that we want to be able to

04:37talk about and really be able to focus

04:39on tonight. So, I just want to thank

04:40everybody who's made the time to be

04:42here, everybody who's watching from

04:43home, um, and of course the video of

04:46tonight's meeting will be available on,

04:48um, YouTube and on Uma as well. So,

04:50thank you again to everybody who's

04:52helped bring tonight's presentation

04:54together. With that, I would ask the

04:55chief, you can come to the podium and

04:57begin your presentation.

05:03And if you don't mind introducing

05:05yourself and your team as well for

05:07members of the public.

05:09>> Thank you for having me. Chief Mark

05:10Gatcomb from 800 Easton Avenue. To my

05:12left here is Detective Steve Mulcahy.

05:15He is the administrator and the manager

05:16of the Flock system.

05:18He, uh, he knows a lot of the

05:20intricacies with the system and he also

05:22conducts our weekly audits. Also in

05:25attendance is Captain Paul Hawkins. He

05:27oversees the Criminal Investigation

05:28Division. He conducts the weekly audits

05:31with Detective Mulcahy on any

05:33questionable searches that come up in

05:35the program that we can explain. Also in

05:37attendance behind me are members of the

05:39executive board. They have come to show

05:41their support because they have used the

05:42system, they've seen the success

05:44stories, and they are passionate about

05:46it as well, as am I.

05:49Um with that, I would just uh I'm going

05:51to read a a quick statement here. I I

05:53had a uh longer statement last time.

05:55This is some of the uh highlights of the

05:57prior statement. So, I want to thank you

06:00for the opportunity to discuss the Flock

06:01license plate reader system and

06:03demonstrate how it works.

06:05I want to start with a little history

06:07because this isn't the first time Mall

06:09and has explored this technology. Back

06:11in 2013 or 2014, Mall and had a license

06:14plate reader system for a short period

06:16of time.

06:18At that time, there were questions and

06:19concerns that remained unanswered, and

06:21we ultimately removed the program.

06:25So, when Flock was introduced to the

06:26department in 2023,

06:28I had many of those same questions and

06:30concerns.

06:31This time, however, my questions were

06:32answered,

06:34and I was satisfied that the technology

06:35could serve a legitimate public safety

06:38purpose.

06:40But, I also knew that if we were going

06:41to implement this system,

06:43it would need to operate under more

06:45restrictive safeguards.

06:47I envisioned that there would be

06:48eventually

06:50come a day when members of the public

06:52and elected officials would have

06:54questions about privacy,

06:56access, and accountability,

06:59much like the questions we're

07:00anticipating tonight.

07:02I just didn't know at the time I was

07:03going to be the guy standing here.

07:07As chief of police, I believe it's

07:08important to balance the public safety

07:10benefits of this technology with our

07:12responsibility to protect privacy, civil

07:15liberties, and public trust.

07:18Flock is an investigative tool.

07:20It captures vehicle images and license

07:22plate information that can help

07:24investigators develop leads, identify

07:26vehicles associated with criminal

07:28incidents, and locate vehicles connected

07:30to investigations or missing persons.

07:34Our department has had numerous

07:35investigative successes in which this

07:37technology has assisted, including cases

07:40involving homicides, home invasions,

07:42numerous acts, and other serious

07:44offenses.

07:46I'll be happy to discuss some of those

07:47specific examples during the question

07:49and answer period.

07:51But, the benefits of this technology

07:53must be balanced with appropriate

07:55safeguards.

07:57In Malden, we reduced the data retention

07:59period from 30 days to 7 days. That was

08:01a Malden issue. That was our decision,

08:04not a Flock decision. We restricted

08:06system access and established rules

08:08governing who can conduct searches and

08:10for what purpose. From day one, we did

08:13that.

08:14I want to also clarify an important

08:16point about access patrol officers

08:18working in our cruisers in the street.

08:20They have never had the capability to

08:22independently use the system search

08:24function, apply search filters, or

08:27search license plates.

08:29That capability has been restricted to

08:31shift supervisors, the officer in

08:34charge, or to a detective conducting a

08:36search under their supervisor's

08:38direction.

08:39This has been our policy since day one.

08:43Our searches are logged and subject to

08:45auditing. We use the system's audit

08:47capabilities to review activity and

08:48identify searches that warrant further

08:51examination.

08:53Every search must have a legitimate law

08:54enforcement purpose, and misuse is

08:56unacceptable.

08:58Our [snorts] sharing policy also limits

09:00sharing to local municipalities within

09:03Massachusetts.

09:05Malden's policy does not authorize

09:07sharing our data with federal agencies.

09:11Tonight, we're going to demonstrate how

09:13this system works so you can see its

09:14capabilities firsthand. Afterward, I

09:17welcome your questions and will do my

09:18best to answer them directly and

09:20transparently.

09:22My responsibility is to protect the

09:23residents of Malden while ensuring that

09:26the tools we use are governed by clear

09:28policies, accountability, and respect

09:31for the public we serve.

09:33Thank you.

09:34And let's take a look at how the system

09:35works.

09:39There's a quick uh

09:40demonstration up on the board that we'll

09:42just go through very quickly.

09:45If it works.

09:49Okay.

09:50Just very quickly demonstrate of what it

09:52does. Takes a point in time picture of a

09:54vehicle traveling on a road. Captures

09:56the make, color, model, license plate at

09:59the rear of the vehicle.

10:01Supports criminal investigations and it

10:03keeps a permanent record of every search

10:06made by local law enforcement.

10:08Does not use fecal facial recognition.

10:11Does not allow for the search of people,

10:14pets, clothing, and it does not connect

10:17to the Registry of Motor Vehicles or any

10:19other system about the driver or the

10:21vehicle.

10:23Does not generate automatic traffic

10:24[snorts] tickets and it

10:27does not track a vehicle continuously.

10:31Okay, these are the fixed camera

10:32locations as you can see. It's 11 of

10:34them.

10:35Spread within the city.

10:41There's another camera, number 12, the

10:43flex camera. That is not deployed. That

10:45was assigned to traffic originally. It

10:47was battery-powered, not solar-powered.

10:50It is currently not in operation. That's

10:52why you see that one there.

10:57This is just a map of where the cameras

10:59are located within the city.

11:09This is a quick 1-minute video tutorial

11:11that I think that would just help with

11:13an overview.

11:16It's very short, 1-minute long.

11:24>> Here is how Flock license plate readers

11:26actually work, including the

11:28accountability measures in place to

11:30prevent [music] misuse. When a vehicle

11:32passes a Flock LPR camera, the camera

11:35captures a series of still images of the

11:37vehicle, which are processed for details

11:39like the vehicle's make, color,

11:41direction of travel, time, location, and

11:44when visible, license plate. If that

11:47vehicle passes another Flock camera,

11:49another image is logged. When viewed

11:51together, these images can help

11:53investigators understand where a vehicle

11:55was last seen, giving them critical

11:57leads when looking for missing people,

11:59stolen vehicles, or investigating

12:01violent crimes.

12:03Flock can't continuously track a vehicle

12:05and can't show where a vehicle traveled

12:07[music] in between these individual

12:08sightings. Flock cameras also don't use

12:10facial recognition or identify drivers.

12:14Customers own their data and control who

12:16it's shared with, not Flock. Every

12:18search requires a documented reason and

12:20case code, and every search is logged

12:22and auditable. Audit assistance

12:24identifies potential misuse to help keep

12:27users accountable. Flock recommends a

12:297-day retention period, after which data

12:31is deleted unless it's preserved as

12:33evidence for a specific case.

12:46>> Do a search on the portal.

12:57>> Okay, a couple more slides just about

12:59the system in general. The retention is

13:017 days. Once again,

13:03with Flock, you can have up to 30 days.

13:06When they set the retention period that

13:08we could go down to 7 days, we made that

13:10choice.

13:12So, data preserved, it's for only

13:15legitimate law enforcement purposes. It

13:16stays for 7 days and then it's

13:18overwritten and erased.

13:20Required purpose, legitimate law

13:22enforcement reason.

13:24Access and searches have to be

13:25authorized by a supervisor. It's

13:27basically a dual authentication process

13:30of being able to search a license plate.

13:33Data sharing, once again, no

13:35out-of-state sharing. ALPR data sharing

13:37to limited agencies within Mass, and

13:40there's no federal agency sharing.

13:45The oversight, as we mentioned in the

13:47audits,

13:49they are conducted by the CID captain

13:52as well as Detective Molloy K. What they

13:54do is they go into the system weekly,

13:56and we have an audit tool. The audit

13:58tool takes a look at the system and

14:02determines there could be questionable

14:04searches within the Flock system.

14:07They go one by one. They have to check

14:09it, determine, and verify that the

14:12search was for a legitimate law

14:14enforcement purpose, and they have to

14:16note that in the system, exactly what

14:18they did. This occurs weekly.

14:22The search records logs identify the

14:24user, access time and reason. Anybody

14:26that logs in, they have to

14:28acknowledge disclaimers that you'll see

14:30shortly.

14:31And the commander reviews the policy

14:32assigns weekly audits, just like we

14:34talked about.

14:37So, we're going to get into a live

14:38demonstration.

14:40Detective Molloy K is going to fire up

14:41the system. He's going to log in with

14:42his credentials

14:44that you'll see up on the screen.

14:51This is the exception, not the rule of

14:52doing a search. We conducted we um

14:55actually entered into our records

14:56management system a record of what we're

14:58doing tonight for the council test

15:00purposes. We had a detective vehicle

15:02drive under a couple of um

15:05the cameras that you're going to see, so

15:07we have a full record. This may show up,

15:10probably will, in the audit log next

15:12week.

15:13Detective Molloy K he will look at that

15:15with the captain. They will they will

15:18research it and determine it was for a

15:20legal lawful purpose, and they will note

15:23that and check it off.

15:26Right now, he has a He has a dual

15:28authentication. You have to get a text

15:30on your phone

15:31to get into the system.

15:33Dual authentication. This is one of the

15:36disclaimers that you sign off for,

15:38self-explanatory,

15:39will not use it for immigration

15:41enforcement or reproductive care in the

15:44following states, including

15:45Massachusetts.

15:47So, any user that's going to go into the

15:49system has to accept that.

16:08>> [snorts]

16:10>> Okay, here's the dashboard of Flock.

16:12This is what an officer would see that

16:14has the capability to search

16:17a case,

16:18not a person that does not have these

16:20credentials. So, that would be a

16:21detective with oversight of a

16:23supervisor, the street sergeant, or the

16:25officer in charge. So, hypothet-

16:27hypothetical situation, somebody's

16:29stealing packages or a house break on

16:31the east side. Officer responds to the

16:33residence, he conducts his

16:35investigation, he learns that there's a

16:37vehicle, we're going to say it's a Ford

16:40SUV, small, black. And what do you want

16:43to use? One

16:45two digits? You want to do two two Z?

16:47>> From the From the drop-down menu of the

16:49offense type.

16:49>> So, the witness obtained that

16:51information, a black Ford small SUV with

16:53two digits, an S and a V.

16:56>> So, we're required to enter an offense

16:57type for every search we conduct along

16:59with the case number. And here we're

17:00going to enter the case number provided

17:02by dispatch uh just prior to this

17:04meeting for test purposes.

17:09And then we'll log here. This will also

17:11show up on the audible

17:12um

17:13search log here.

17:28>> So, for purposes of this demonstration,

17:31the witness provided us with the first

17:33two digits of the license plate

17:35at the scene to the patrol officers.

17:37>> Two.

17:38>> Zoo.

17:39>> Yep.

17:40>> And we know it's a mass plate.

17:49The vehicle signature would allow us to

17:50pre-populate certain

17:52um makes of vehicles. We know it's a

17:54Ford.

17:55>> Did you miss the partial plate up there?

17:57>> And

17:59There you go. Excuse me.

18:01>> Okay. So, from here we can choose what

18:03type of vehicle. So, we know it's an

18:04SUV. We believe it's an SUV. We can tell

18:06the system as much as we can or at least

18:09we know.

18:10SUV.

18:12>> And black.

18:17>> So, you can always distinguish the

18:20manufacturer of the vehicle. You cannot

18:21tell the model. So, it's like Ford

18:24pickup truck, Ford sedan, Ford SUV. But,

18:26you can't tell the uh the model.

18:31We're going to apply that.

18:33Now, with this hypothetical situation,

18:34this would be a search conducted by a

18:36street supervisor once the patrol

18:37officer who took the report summonses

18:40the street supervisor to the scene,

18:42explains the situation, the supervisor

18:44approves of that, the supervisor has to

18:47log in with his or her credentials and

18:49conduct this search. The patrol officer

18:51is involved, of course, but that has to

18:53be um another dual

18:56authentication or dual purpose.

19:08>> And if we're purposes of this

19:09demonstration, uh utilizing the

19:12um demonstration we created here to to

19:14utilize this.

19:16We're usually 10:06 a.m. to 10:30 a.m.

19:19for purposes of this demonstration.

19:27Now, the system allows you to to

19:29obviously see as you 15 minutes, 2

19:31hours, 24 hours, 48 hours, 30 days.

19:33However, within our mobile system, it's

19:347 days. So, that those are pre-populated

19:36fields that have existed since the

19:38system was updated, but we have 7 days

19:40of retention. So,

19:43Now,

19:44we will perform the search.

19:51Okay.

19:52This is the result that

19:54the officer will see on the Flock

19:55system.

19:58So, it it

19:59you can [clears throat] see that it's

20:00it's uh

20:02highlighting on the license plate the

20:03first two digits 2Z with that

20:06parameters.

20:07And that's that's the result. That's

20:09what the officer sees as a result of a

20:11Flock capture.

20:14Now, I

20:15given this, we can investigate further

20:17by pulling up the this image or any of

20:19the three images.

20:23>> You want to keep that for 1 second? Put

20:25that back on.

20:26So, this is what's called a double tap,

20:28correct?

20:29>> Yes, double tap means if there's a

20:30vehicle coming in the opposite direction

20:32as it's recording and taking a snapshot

20:34of that 2Z vehicle, you can see there's

20:35another vehicle coming in the opposite

20:37direction. You can also see that that's

20:39most likely when a front-facing

20:43camera

20:44capture occurs on what we call a double

20:46tap. If you look in that windshield,

20:49that's a silhouette. I don't think

20:50anybody would be able to identify who

20:51that person is. Um that that's what you

20:54get when they take the picture of a

20:56front-facing vehicle.

20:58Of course, situations dictate things,

21:00sunlight, whatnot. If it's raining,

21:02dark,

21:03but that's an example of a front-facing

21:05view.

21:09>> [cough]

21:10[clears throat]

21:10>> Now, utilizing

21:11these, we would investigate further and

21:13we're able to create a local record. To

21:15do so,

21:17we would export it to a PDF

21:19and

21:20validate the images

21:22and you will see it.

21:31>> [snorts]

21:33>> Excuse me.

21:35>> Screen the loader here.

21:36>> This is download, right? The download,

21:37right?

21:38>> Yes.

21:39>> [clears throat]

21:40>> So, this will be an investigative

21:41download packet. This search would be

21:44downloaded off of the server. This would

21:46be recorded. This would stay with us.

21:48This would be part of the packet for

21:50court or what would be needed. Included

21:52with that, this is FOIA-able. So, that's

21:55when people conduct a FOIA request, it

21:58is not within the closed system that we

22:01can only access for legitimate law

22:03enforcement needs. So, if this comes

22:06out, it is not in the system. It is

22:08saved. This is what can be

22:12given to people if a FOIA request comes

22:13in.

22:14And that's what you see probably often

22:16when people have uh plates online and

22:18maybe the sites that are

22:20created, if you want to try to search if

22:22your plate was searched, this is what

22:24they're getting through the FOIA

22:25requests.

22:27>> [clears throat]

22:27>> Not a search that we search and it's not

22:30a hit.

22:31There's many times that a detective has

22:33a workup.

22:34They get their case. They have a series

22:36of things they do. One of the things

22:38they check to see if the vehicle hit

22:39Flock. Often times, it does not hit the

22:41Flock system. That goes away in 7 7

22:44days. He conducted the search, it stays.

22:47If it hits an audit log, they will check

22:48it for an audit log. If not, then it

22:50will be deleted within the 7-day

22:52retention period.

22:56So, as you can see here,

22:58there's many fields you can tell the

22:59system as much as you, you know, like if

23:01we just knew it was a black Ford, we

23:03didn't know it was an SUV or a sedan or

23:05a pickup truck. So, if you if you give

23:07it as much detailed information you

23:09know,

23:10however, if you know the full plate

23:12right off the jump, like from this

23:13investigation, that person at that home

23:15said that plate was 1 2 3 4, that is

23:17another way we can query it. So, this

23:19we're conducting queries with known

23:21plates,

23:22partial plates,

23:23or we don't know the plate at all. All

23:25someone could say is that car that drove

23:26past my house and vandalized it, it was

23:29a yellow pickup truck. So, we can start

23:31from there, conduct that query, and then

23:33build off as a lead,

23:36so and so forth with traditional other

23:38means we would do.

23:50>> That's the end of it, right?

23:51>> Yep.

23:54>> The transparency portal.

23:57>> So, we're going to we're going to pull

23:58up this transparency portal that we will

23:59put the link on our website. We will

24:01disseminate that. The public is welcome

24:03to go on there. There's a lot of

24:04information. Detective Mulcahey, knows

24:07the ins and outs of it, so he's just

24:08going to give a quick tutorial of what

24:10can be looked at and accessed in the

24:12transparency portal.

24:19>> So, this public-facing website will be

24:21made available following this meeting on

24:23our social media platforms and the our

24:25police department's website. So, this

24:27website is maintained by Flock Safety.

24:29It's live. Uh the data that you see here

24:32in the the material we contribute to

24:35along with Flock. So, the particular

24:37statistics that are published here are

24:39published live by Flock, but the

24:41overview, the success stories that we

24:44choose to publish here are controlled by

24:46us.

24:47And I'll I'll run down here.

25:03>> So, there's six recent success stories.

25:06All highlighted here, which you can read

25:08and review when this is published and

25:11this the website is live now, but

25:13however, after the meeting you can

25:15mail these stories that Chief has spoken

25:16to in in this presentation along with

25:17prior ones.

25:21The portal it's going to show people

25:23members of the public

25:25Our retention schedule 7 days. The

25:27number number of cameras on our network,

25:29which is 12. There are 11 deployed. We

25:32this city has 12 cameras. There are 11

25:34deployed, one is a flood camera that's

25:35not deployed.

25:40So, unique vehicles detected. So, over

25:42the last 30 days

25:44the camera network of 11 cameras fixated

25:46across community have detected 137,000

25:50approximate vehicles.

25:52Over those same 30 days

25:5560 searches have been made against that

25:56data.

26:00During that same time frame, 1,098

26:04hot list alerts were produced.

26:07To understand

26:09an alert

26:10you would just explain how a search

26:13is performed and how we utilize the

26:15search function to produce investigative

26:18leads.

26:19The patrol officers and users,

26:21supervisors, and detectives like myself

26:23who subscribe to the alerts

26:25who are

26:27working during the course of their

26:28shift. I wouldn't be surprised if my

26:30phone went off right now

26:32and it would detect a hot list alert.

26:35So, this pre-programmed as you subscribe

26:37to them NCIC alerts, Nick Mick, Amber

26:39alerts. So, say if someone reports their

26:42vehicle stolen

26:43an hour ago, that vehicle is entered

26:45stolen by the Molalla Police into NCIC,

26:48that integration occurs NCIC it, CJIS

26:50data, NCIC.

26:53An officer

26:54could be parked outside City Hall right

26:56here, and alert would go off on their

26:57phone if they subscribe to the alerts,

26:59whether it's on the application, or the

27:01web function, or text message. And

27:03they're going to get a photo like you

27:05saw here tonight of that yellow pickup

27:07truck just passed by the camera, Main

27:09and Florence Street.

27:11Within that hotlist alert, it's going to

27:13say stolen vehicle,

27:15wanted person, Amber Alert, whatever

27:17that

27:18alert is subscribed to.

27:22That officer would then verify

27:25independently beyond that detection

27:28on their

27:29separate CJS system. They would query

27:31the plate, this this vehicle is stolen.

27:34And they would investigate as they would

27:35normally.

27:36So, there's two ways we're utilizing the

27:39system is we're receiving alerts in real

27:41time

27:42about vehicles

27:44that are tied to different hotlist

27:45alerts.

27:46And we're also utilizing it to leverage

27:49and advance investigations.

27:53The top offense types, this is again,

27:54this is from all the specific searches

27:56of the last 30 days.

27:57Larceny and theft offenses, stolen

27:59property offenses, robbery, hit-and-run

28:02car accidents, kidnapping and abduction.

28:07>> [cough]

28:08>> This list, again, the website is live,

28:10so this changes daily as communities

28:13change

28:15and the networks change. So, these are

28:17the agencies within Massachusetts

28:19whom we share

28:22our Flock information with our network,

28:24and many of them, it's again, it's

28:26network specific, but think of it like a

28:28digital handshake. So,

28:30the Melrose Police have a

28:32Flock network.

28:33The Malden has a Flock network.

28:35That digital handshake takes place, you

28:37decide, each agency decides, are we

28:40going to share a complete network, is it

28:42just hotlist, etc. So, that's agency by

28:45agency decides what they'll share. So,

28:47these are the specific agencies that our

28:50network

28:51is sharing with. So, an agency in

28:53Melrose

28:55queries a stolen vehicle, they search

28:56their network, and they want to see is

28:58that

29:00vehicle anywhere else beyond their

29:02borders? They would search all networks.

29:04Now, if we're

29:07Flock friends, per se,

29:09and that vehicle passed by a Mallen

29:10camera,

29:12they would get an alert

29:14and see that information.

29:16So, like traditional like police

29:18investigations, we all communicate

29:19through

29:21traditional means. This allows us like

29:23this this network

29:25of agencies to assist one another. So,

29:28not only are we helping our

29:30residents here, but we're helping

29:31surrounding agencies too.

29:33And there's an audit [clears throat]

29:33log.

29:35>> Audit log?

29:35>> Yes. So, being that said, every search

29:38conducted,

29:40whether I search just now, we searched

29:42that vehicle,

29:43the uh black Ford, and we knew the two

29:46digits,

29:47if I had chosen all networks,

29:49every network

29:51on this list,

29:52on their end, they would get a network

29:54notation on their audit log, all the

29:57police conducted this search on this

29:58date and time for this specific thing

30:00against your network.

30:02And that's how on both ends, and we see

30:04it daily daily as well. So, we can see

30:06and these are network audit logs that we

30:07provided in prior FOIA requests, and

30:10that's typically produced

30:12um

30:13again, all my

30:15active investigations, things that are

30:18would constitute, we'd have to redact.

30:21But, those are things that are are

30:22recorded, every search recorded against

30:25our network and what we search against

30:26other networks.

30:34Some of the high points here that that

30:35Flock hits home on this parent share

30:36portal that the chief touched with. So,

30:39what what's detected? So, it's license

30:41plates and vehicles. It's not trained

30:43for anything other than that. And in

30:44particular, they're mounted in a

30:45position where

30:47it's trained in the rear of the vehicle.

30:50Again, what's not detected? Facial

30:51recognition, people, gender, or race.

30:55The data is used

30:56for law enforcement purposes only. The

30:58data is owned by Malden and Medford

30:59Police Department. It's never sold to

31:00third parties.

31:02Prohibited uses, as explained here and

31:04prior through this presentation, would

31:05include immigration enforcement, traffic

31:07enforcement, harassment or intimidation,

31:10usage based solely on protected class,

31:13i.e. race, sex, religion, or personal

31:15use.

31:17The access policy,

31:18all system access requires a valid

31:20reason and is stored indefinitely.

31:24The hot list policy, hot lists

31:26hits are required to be human verified

31:28prior to any action. So, that officer

31:30who's getting that alert on their device

31:33of a stolen vehicle that just passed by

31:35a camera or device in our community,

31:37would have to verify that

31:39as they normally would

31:40and verify that

31:42before taking any action.

31:43The public search audit, this is a

31:45downloadable feature right here, and

31:48that's going to show you

31:50um like we talked about the network

31:51audit.

31:56All right, it's good.

31:58Yep. And um

32:01we can get into

32:03in terms of the storage and data here,

32:04but you can read this on your own as

32:05well.

32:06Um it talks about some common myths and

32:08facts as well.

32:20Was it good?

32:22>> When we were uh you probably one of the

32:24questions when we were speaking to the

32:25Flock representatives with we're in

32:27contact

32:28not often, but when we have questions,

32:30one of the questions that I highlighted

32:31to them was how do we know if the Flock

32:34representatives come into our system.

32:36How how do we have record of Well, there

32:38is a record of that audit trail.

32:40We have an audit trail if they have to

32:41come in. We have to request them to come

32:43in if there's a technological problem

32:44and whatnot. It almost

32:47it it

32:48does not occur often for any type of

32:50data related issues. It would be for a

32:52camera related issue. However, the

32:55representatives we're speaking with,

32:56they have a whole permission library

32:58just like we do. And the two

33:00representatives we deal with all the

33:01time say, "We We can't even access your

33:03system. We cannot log in." They're only

33:05the engineers up at the top rung. They

33:07have the credentials. They would come in

33:09and then there would be a network audit

33:11that we would know that they came in to

33:12troubleshoot something. So, that's just

33:14uh I thought that was interesting how

33:16Flock they they can't get into our

33:17system unless we we request it and then

33:20they would come in with their engineers

33:21at the top tier.

33:24All right. Thanks, Steve.

33:35So, we have some some success stories

33:37that

33:39I'd really like to highlight. I know you

33:40want to get to questions. Want to just

33:42get on the questions and we can

33:43highlight these during there or and some

33:45of them might be

33:46a matter of So, I

33:48I see some lights.

33:48>> I don't I had some lights on, but folks

33:50put them off. Are Are we okay to do some

33:52of the to to keep doing the presentation

33:55and then move into questions? Okay,

33:56yeah, you can keep going and then we'll

33:58go to questions after.

33:59>> it there's so many crimes that have been

34:00solved from the system. It it's it it's

34:03really uh it's helped us immensely with

34:05so many different crimes. From homicides

34:08to serious offenses, from an individual

34:11who was conducting lewd and lascivious

34:12acts I talked about last time in Marlon

34:15Square. Uh horrendous. We spent an

34:18an inordinate amount of time

34:20uh with teams out there. We even had a

34:23female detective. She was a decoy

34:26and we we tried whatever we could to

34:29catch this individual and that was very

34:31concerning. Flock actually

34:34highly assisted us in getting a charge

34:37against the individual. Not only did it

34:39assist us in that

34:41in our incident, he was doing the same

34:43thing at another major city in the area

34:45at a college. And we were able to work

34:46together and get additional charges over

34:48there. And we went to that city and we

34:50retrieved evidence as a result of simple

34:53comparing the Flock hits. But that was

34:55just one of them.

34:56Um

34:58We had a violent domestic assault and

35:00kidnapping.

35:01Woman went out on a date with this

35:02individual. It's the first date.

35:04And it was a violent assault involving a

35:07victim who who should she was assaulted

35:09and strangled, prevented from leaving a

35:11vehicle. Uh she was chased, dragged. Uh

35:14he fled the area in in a vehicle. We

35:17conducted an extensive follow-up

35:18including the recovery of video in and

35:20around the area. The Flock camera was

35:22instrumental in retrieving that video

35:25plate of that plate number of the

35:26vehicle and cutting conducting the

35:28investigation even further.

35:30Um when we closed in on that individual,

35:32he fled the country. He he was gone.

35:33He's like, "I'm out of here." But

35:35um

35:36it was

35:37it was instrumental in that case.

35:39Home invasion. This was on Copeland

35:42Copeland Terrace. Middle of the night.

35:44People up they're they're sleeping in

35:45their homes. All of a sudden a door gets

35:47kicked in. Um weapon used. They're

35:50looking for something. This was a

35:52targeted act. It wasn't random.

35:54Um

35:56They do their thing. They take off. All

35:58we have is a vehicle.

35:59The detectives quickly

36:02thought that the victims may not be

36:04coming

36:05totally truthful.

36:08So what do we do? We had that vehicle.

36:09They worked on they expanded

36:12getting video and subsequently the Flock

36:15cameras assisted them in obtaining the

36:17vehicle in question that belonged to a

36:19third party. So they had to drill down

36:21further because the vehicle, which I saw

36:23the picture of, it was a front-facing

36:25photo as we saw that we call the double

36:27tap. We saw the vehicle, we saw two

36:30silhouettes in there and the detectives

36:31could not bring that to a clerk to get

36:33the requisite probable cause to get

36:36charges. So, they had to drill down even

36:37further. So, we had the picture, we had

36:39the vehicle, it was in the area, but

36:41without that Flock system, that that

36:42case may not have been solved. Um

36:45missing endangered person.

36:47This elderly individual, he was reported

36:49missing from Malden. The family was

36:50distraught to the point they called the

36:52police. Report taken. Supervisor

36:54requested, came to the scene, was told

36:56the logistics of what happened. Puts the

36:58plate into the Flock system.

37:00The entire network system. It's hitting

37:02Lynn going towards the beaches. The

37:04family's even more concerned.

37:06He gets located subsequently in

37:08Marblehead safe. That was another one

37:10that I

37:11not having the Flock cameras, I don't

37:13know how long it would have been for us

37:15to uh locate that individual.

37:18Armed robbery investigation. This one

37:19was at one of the gas stations. Online

37:22marketplace, they're going to buy some

37:24jackets. Guy shows up, they have a gun.

37:26They rob him, they take off. Um we had

37:29limited information except for the video

37:31from the store.

37:32And Flock was we we drilled down with

37:35the Flock system and were able to obtain

37:37the vehicle in question and we ended up

37:39getting charges. And as well

37:41uh comparing Flock hits in another city,

37:43compared notes with the other city so

37:45they get charged with multiple crimes in

37:47other cities. And Chief, if if I can add

37:49>> Sure.

37:51That vehicle and two subjects and the

37:53firearm and the stolen goods

37:55were recovered within hours.

37:58And that's just a

37:59quick snapshot of how quickly this can

38:01advance a case, a violent act.

38:04And two subjects were taken to custody

38:06in nearby community.

38:08Firearm was recovered.

38:10And the uh stolen goods were recovered,

38:11but that's [snorts] an example of how

38:12fast this can assist us in these exigent

38:15circumstances as well.

38:17>> Homicide in Overlook Ridge. Homicide

38:19murder investigation, fatal shooting in

38:22the apartment complex

38:23um

38:25horrific

38:26uh

38:27Flock was instrumental in locating

38:29different vehicles that were associated

38:31with the crime. Timely information

38:33regarding the vehicles in the

38:35>> [snorts]

38:35>> uh in the persons involved.

38:37Recovered stolen motor vehicle shooting

38:39in Lynn. The vehicle ended up in Malden.

38:42They did a check. It hit one of the

38:43cameras in the middle of the night. We

38:44started searching that area. Um on a

38:47wider search, we located the vehicle.

38:48Lynn came. They took vehicle. They

38:50brought it back to their department to

38:51be processed and hopeful for a

38:54resolution.

38:55Um stolen packages from a residence.

38:57This it doesn't also always have to be

38:59the serious crime. It could be a house

39:00break. It could be package thefts.

39:03There was a residence in Malden that

39:04they had four packages stolen. Uh

39:06numerous items

39:08a white male only came in. He he entered

39:10a vehicle. One of the detectives started

39:12just searching

39:14different variations as we did in the

39:16area Elm and uh Pleasant Street and the

39:19Flock camera was able to catch that

39:21image.

39:22Um

39:23a house break up in the Gramble Ave

39:25area. Uh Flock was instrumental in in

39:28one of the detectives assisting him

39:30locating the vehicle in another city and

39:33he was he was uh subsequently arrested

39:36in uh the other vehicle.

39:38Malden Housing Authority, they had a

39:39break-in to their garage over a weekend.

39:42Uh we came down, took a report. They had

39:44a specific

39:46model and and vehicle. An older model

39:49Mercury Grand Prix, '90s or early 2000s.

39:52One of the detectives sat there and went

39:54through the Flock system and went

39:55through the Flock system and found one

39:56that matched, but then he had to

39:58corroborate that information.

40:00Subsequently, he found the vehicle. They

40:01ended up in Medford. They recovered the

40:03the property. These are just a few of

40:04the success stories. I just

40:06I I

40:08I just I just have to reiterate how

40:10successful this this system is with with

40:12the officers here. Um but obviously you

40:16have several questions that we want to

40:17try to answer the best we can. So,

40:20>> Okay. Thank you for your presentations.

40:22I appreciate it. Um

40:24just quickly before we go into

40:26questions, I do see some counselors with

40:28lights on. I want to reiterate the

40:31announcement I made at the beginning

40:32about recording. Look at we do have a

40:33couple other folks recording in the room

40:35now. That's perfectly fine. I just want

40:37to reiterate that that we need to make

40:39that announcement if the room's being

40:40recorded. Massachusetts is an all-party

40:43consent state, so I just have to

40:44reiterate when that's happening because

40:46everyone in the room has the right to

40:48know that they're being recorded. Again,

40:50you have the right to do that, but I am

40:51going to reannounce it if I see more

40:53folks popping up with cameras.

40:55Um and before we take questions, I am

40:57going to go to Counselor McDonald first.

40:59Um Counselor McDonald is our liaison to

41:02the Police Community Advisory Council,

41:04which has been meeting and discussing

41:06Flock in collaboration with our police

41:08department for the better part of the

41:10past year, I would say. Um and that's a

41:12group that the Council helped to put

41:14together with the mayor's office a few

41:16years ago. So, um Counselor McDonald,

41:18I'm going to give you the floor and you

41:19can talk a little bit about what's been

41:21done um to involve the community in this

41:23conversation. I know that's a question

41:25we get a lot.

41:27>> Yeah, thank you so much, Council

41:28President. Um I want to just quickly

41:30recognize Britney Terrelli, who's kind

41:33of right behind behind you guys, who is

41:35a member of our Police Community

41:36Advisory Council and the secretary um

41:39and is here as a representative tonight.

41:41Thanks for being here, Britney.

41:42And the um so, the the PCAC has met with

41:46Detective Okay. I think you've been to a

41:47meeting and um and we've had a a couple

41:51of conversations. The group meets

41:52monthly and and has a broad charge to

41:54just hear community input feedback on

41:57public safety issues and the work of

41:59Malden PD. And so, you know, goes to

42:02community events. Like they were just at

42:03the um public safety day, for example.

42:06And so, this is definitely a question

42:07that was coming in from the community

42:09about Flock cameras. Um

42:11and so, the the group sent some

42:13questions uh to and and has interacted

42:16with a number of folks from MPD.

42:19Lieutenant Powell is our liaison, so

42:21he's at most of the meetings.

42:23And we even interacted with you, Chief

42:24Beck, when you were the captain

42:27about about this exact question. So, I

42:29just want folks to know that we've been

42:30in some conversation with you all for

42:32for a couple of months about this.

42:34And there were quite So, there you can

42:37read some of the questions in the notes

42:39from the group. Most recently, last

42:41month's PCAC meeting, there were a lot

42:43of questions both about Flock cameras

42:45and about another particular incident

42:47that happened in September.

42:49And so, the

42:51So, those questions were sent in

42:52writing,

42:53and Malden PD was good enough to send

42:55back detailed responses. So, that's a

42:5616-page response to those questions, and

42:59it includes a couple of things about the

43:02Flock camera program

43:04that Malden PD has. So, that is posted

43:06on the Malden Police Community Advisory

43:08Council site.

43:11And ask some of these questions about

43:13the the terms of use and the way the

43:15internal audit process and the data

43:16works. So, I just want community members

43:18to know that that's another source of

43:21information about this.

43:23And to know that as new questions,

43:26concerns,

43:28you know, applause comes in for

43:32for your inner inner experience or

43:33interactions around public safety, you

43:35can bring those to the Police Community

43:36Advisory Council. They meet

43:38monthly and always have a have a

43:40community input section of the meeting

43:42in addition to the ongoing questions

43:43they're discussing. So, I will have more

43:45questions and and things about this, but

43:46I just wanted to start by recognizing

43:48that. And we did add

43:50some of the some of the previous work on

43:52Flock cameras to the record of this

43:55paper that the PCAC had done, including

43:57a previous record of the communities

43:58that we share with. And it can I send

44:02the next Q&A to also be attached to this

44:05paper?

44:06>> Yes, please.

44:06>> Okay, I'll send that to the clerk. Okay.

44:08Thank you.

44:08>> I don't want to thank P CAC for

44:10conducting that as well as yourself and

44:11Lieutenant Powell. He spends a lot of

44:13time. There's There's many questions

44:14that come and it's a good resource

44:15because they're very particular.

44:17So, if if um there's additional

44:19questions that people feel they want to

44:22have answered, they should check there

44:23cuz most likely it was asked.

44:26>> And the records on that website, just to

44:28underscore, you said Councilmember

44:29McDonald, it's in very good shape. So,

44:31if the public truly goes there and reads

44:33it, it's the minutes are easy to follow.

44:35It's really, really a good resource if

44:37you want to get caught up on questions

44:38that have been asked just as you said.

44:39So, really encourage folks watching to

44:41go visit that um and see what's been

44:43done already.

44:44Uh I will go next to Councilor

44:46Colon-Hayes.

44:48>> Thank you very much. Thank you so much

44:49for um attending tonight. This was a

44:52really detailed um presentation. So, I'm

44:55glad that the community got to see that.

44:57Um

44:58I'm not going to I have a lot of

44:59questions, but I'm going to do my first

45:01I separated while you were speaking on

45:03topics that went from um

45:07the IT to storage to FOIA to contracts.

45:11So, we'll just um but first thing I'm

45:13going to do is start with the storage

45:16and sharing. Um

45:18So,

45:20could you give an idea how many people

45:22have access in the department to this um

45:24information?

45:26>> To the search capabilities?

45:27>> Yes.

45:27>> Well, we would have all of the

45:28supervisors, but not all all of the

45:30supervisors, including myself, in full

45:33transparency, I I'm not on there

45:35searching. I would say the command staff

45:37in general terms are not on there

45:39searching. I know Captain Hawkins

45:41searched the vehicle that was involved

45:42in a homicide just the other day to see

45:44if it hit any of the flock cameras, but

45:46um

45:47that being said, there are 27

45:49individuals that are in the superior

45:50officers

45:51um union and there's approximately 10

45:54detectives that would have oversight or

45:57they would have access to conduct that

45:59with oversight from the supervisor. Is

46:00that correct?

46:01>> That's correct. Yeah.

46:02>> Okay, and they would fill out what you

46:03showed us here, which was

46:04>> They would go through that whole

46:05protocol. The layman officer in the in

46:07the cruiser, it's not a trust issue.

46:09It's an issue with back in 2013 or 14,

46:12saw the questions that were raised very

46:14quickly, us, some other metropolitan

46:17cities, state police, we shut it down

46:19because they just couldn't answer the

46:21questions and the concerns that we had.

46:23Fast forward to now,

46:25I knew there was going to be a

46:26conversation about this, and from the

46:27onset I told then Chief Cronin, I said

46:29we have to keep the access restricted.

46:32We have to have oversight with

46:33supervisors because

46:35not because we don't trust our officers,

46:37but we want that additional layer of

46:39security. Similar to a bank, two tellers

46:42go into the vault, they each have half

46:44of the combo, and they go in there for a

46:45reason. Same thing.

46:47>> Okay, yeah. That's great. Um the other I

46:50saw the when you listed the other cities

46:52that we share data with, um once it goes

46:55like just Revere's popping my head. If

46:57if if our data goes to Revere, can they

47:00then share that with other people?

47:03>> Well, they would conduct a search of the

47:05vehicle to see if it hit a camera. If

47:07they if they choose the full network,

47:10network audit would be sent to us that

47:12they did a search conducted a search of

47:14our camera.

47:16Is it true that if it comes back without

47:18a hit, we still get it?

47:19>> That's correct.

47:20>> Okay. So, even if they don't get a hit

47:21on a plate, and Steve can explain

47:23>> just searching in Revere, but I mean

47:25like would they extend their search out

47:27of the city of Revere to their cities

47:30that they share it with, or does it stop

47:31at Revere?

47:32>> So, it's a case-by-case

47:34um

47:36process. We take the report, we see the

47:38house break that we had tonight or the

47:40package theft, we would do an internal

47:42mold and search. Well, if we thought

47:43they were going north on Broadway

47:45towards another city, we can expand that

47:47into different networks, and they would

47:49all get a record that we just did a

47:51search and it checked their cameras,

47:53even though it didn't hit their cameras.

47:54So, and we get the same thing. If Revere

47:56searches us, we get a record of it. If

47:59it does [snorts] hit a plate

48:00and now all of a sudden it becomes used

48:02nefariously, we have a record of it

48:04exactly who did it, when, and what the

48:06purpose was.

48:07>> And then Revere has

48:09you would get be able to get access from

48:11Revere to who they shared it with?

48:12>> Absolutely. There's a full network audit

48:14included on this system. They have to

48:16sign off on the same exact disclaimers

48:17that Detective Mulcahy did, as well as

48:20logins. Everything's time stamped,

48:22breadcrumb trail.

48:23And I mean if there's an audit or

48:26whatever you access that system.

48:28And if if I can just add

48:29>> Yeah.

48:30>> just to describe I know it's

48:32technical and we're all learning this as

48:34and um

48:35again, I'm learning every day and I've

48:37been in the tech for over 10 plus years

48:39and I've been part of this program since

48:40the launch of it and

48:42this company and

48:44how they operate evolves daily in terms

48:46of like the safeguards they put in place

48:48and they you know, they value the

48:49privacy concerns and we speak to them

48:51weekly. We spoke to them today about

48:53concerns and questions we had. But to

48:55your

48:56question about Revere specifically or

48:57another community

48:58>> Yeah.

48:59>> So for example, like the portal says

49:01there was 135,000

49:03detections in a in 30 days.

49:07And only 60 searches were conducted

49:09against that data.

49:12We don't have to conduct a search. You

49:14know what I'm saying? So that data

49:15exists. So a vehicle passes by that

49:18camera.

49:20If a search isn't conducted, that

49:21vehicle that data is there and it it was

49:23it's overwritten

49:25and it's deleted after that 7-day

49:26retention period.

49:28So there's a large volume of data

49:31that would be accessed only with alarm

49:33full some public safety legitimate

49:34purpose, i.e. the offense type with a

49:37report number and then we could access

49:39that.

49:41There's that black Ford with the plate

49:422Z.

49:44If I also want to see

49:46where that vehicle is operating beyond

49:48our network, if I searched all networks

49:51well, there it is popping in Peabody,

49:52and it's August in Revere, okay? And

49:54then obviously case whether there's a

49:56shoplifting,

49:58vandalism, or homicide, we would conduct

50:00our investigation accordingly. So, those

50:02are just leads, but that data Revere has

50:05would just be what you saw. It doesn't

50:06tell us anything about who was operating

50:07the car,

50:09who the vehicle's registered to.

50:10It's just a snapshot historically.

50:13>> Okay. Um

50:15and then I'll let other people ask like

50:16I said I have a lot more. The

50:19This all sounds great when you're right,

50:20you're going to find someone that did

50:22something bad. And when we want to

50:24follow them through the city, but when

50:26you were saying the 30 days, this is

50:27something I typed cuz I wanted to ask it

50:28anyway, so I'm glad you brought this up.

50:30It you were just saying the last 30 days

50:32of info is held there, and then one of

50:34the slides spoke to it too, but then you

50:36said you only save it for seven.

50:39>> So, the the standard across

50:41Flock when the system was implemented

50:42was 30 days. So, when we

50:44started this program was 30 days across

50:47all these different agencies, that was

50:48the standard was 30 days.

50:50Malden chose, and Chief Gatcomb chose to

50:52bring that down to seven days of

50:53retention.

50:55So,

50:56when I spoke about 30 days, there's

50:58pre-populated like when we're conducting

51:00that search is it the last

51:0212 hours, 24 hours, seven days, 15 days,

51:0630 days.

51:08So, if you were to hit 30 days,

51:10there's only seven days worth of data

51:12>> Okay.

51:12>> in Malden.

51:13>> Okay.

51:14Great.

51:15Um

51:17And then one last and then I'll go.

51:18Okay, so you're searching for the

51:21example that you used with the black

51:23vehicle, and you're

51:25you pop up like the white car. Um what

51:28happens to the like do you delete that

51:30car out of the information or that when

51:32you download it to the PDF, that was in

51:34there too with like their license plates

51:35on there like

51:36>> an incorrect car or the correct car?

51:38>> The well, you had it looked like you had

51:39the black car that was correct, and then

51:40the white car was behind it that was

51:42like just caught in the film. Like what

51:44happens with that white car's info?

51:45>> That would be part of the record,

51:46correct?

51:47>> That's part of the record. And um so

51:48that investigative summary that was

51:50produced as PDF, that's more

51:51specifically tailored to

51:53>> FOIA request

51:53>> uh an investigation, say for um court

51:56purposes, summary purposes,

51:57>> Okay.

51:58>> for a record. The public-facing FOIA

52:01request, audit logs, and search

52:02parameter logs are like Excel

52:04spreadsheets, so they're not going to

52:05contain the images, just to uh make that

52:08clear.

52:08>> Okay.

52:09>> Okay.

52:09>> Um

52:10so what we produce when we're we comply

52:12with the FOIA records,

52:14>> Mhm.

52:15>> and they're asking for the network

52:17audit logs,

52:18we produce those.

52:20The images are not produced.

52:21>> Okay.

52:22>> So it's

52:23search parameters, date, time,

52:25license plate,

52:27location of the camera. The image is not

52:29provided.

52:29>> Okay. Thank you so much.

52:31>> Law enforcement officers and, you know,

52:32court purposes when it when it applies,

52:35that's part of our record, but not

52:37public-facing.

52:37>> Thank you so much. Okay. Thank you. Can

52:39I Before I go to the next counselor, I

52:41just want to drill down on that because

52:42I know for the council, we often will

52:44get FOIA requests and we're allowed to

52:46respond

52:47>> Mhm.

52:48>> with the literal response of what we are

52:49able to provide, but then we'll

52:51sometimes get

52:52requests back for metadata or

52:55uh original data behind the source file.

52:59I get this question a lot from

53:00constituents because some of the cameras

53:01are positioned outside schools. And when

53:03I saw that example photo, I'm thinking

53:05what if there's kids at the one at

53:08>> Yeah.

53:08>> on Route 60

53:10waiting to cross at BB, just to use one

53:12example. Is there a scenario where a

53:14member of the public could say, "I don't

53:16actually want the photo that you save, I

53:18want the one behind it." And what if

53:20there's minors in it? Is there any

53:22scenario where a FOIA request could

53:24produce a photo with a child in it?

53:27>> So the the Flock cameras, just just to

53:31make this clear, they are cameras

53:34making photographs of point time of a

53:37plate in a vehicle. They're not

53:39recording like a traditional video

53:40camera. These cameras is room here. This

53:42camera is in the lobby of City Hall.

53:44This camera is on the outside of the

53:45Citizens Bank here that walk that as I

53:47walked into this meeting recorded me.

53:49This camera is at the train station.

53:51Um

53:51>> There's cameras in the schools also,

53:53just to be clear.

53:54>> schools as well. Yes. But the Flock

53:56cameras

53:57are positioned and installed and

54:00specifically

54:02there to detect vehicles and plates.

54:04If in by chance during a detection a

54:07person, a pet, whether it's a minor or

54:09adult is in that image.

54:11Again, these cameras are in

54:12public-facing view.

54:14And and I I'll let the chief comment

54:16further if he if he has

54:17>> Yeah, I don't even think we've had a

54:19situation where that's occurred.

54:21>> Mhm.

54:21>> But

54:23I I can't say legally with the in within

54:25the FOIA information

54:27>> [clears throat]

54:27>> um

54:28how they would

54:30react just hypothetically if there was a

54:31juvenile in the picture.

54:32>> Yeah.

54:33>> That's That's created for court. It's an

54:35evidentiary picture.

54:37>> [clears throat]

54:37>> I will say in our body cams

54:39the sergeant and the officer that they

54:42redact a lot of information there.

54:43>> Okay.

54:44>> They block out. They They put a box in

54:46front of the pictures of people that

54:49shouldn't be included in that.

54:52So, I

54:53I think it's fair to say that if that

54:54came up, that would be a possibility to

54:56be done. I don't I haven't heard of

54:58that. I haven't seen that because the

54:59focus is on the plate and

55:01I I haven't heard of that.

55:02>> That's the point.

55:04on the picture.

55:04>> Okay. I appreciate that.

55:05>> too.

55:06>> We can check into that as well.

55:07>> Thank you so much. I really appreciate

55:09you answering them.

55:11>> Okay. I'm going to go back to counselor

55:14McDonald and then next I have Is it I

55:16know you're sharing a mic. Is it

55:17counselor O'Malley? Okay. I'll take you

55:19next.

55:20Thank you. Um just a couple of

55:21questions. Uh one, I do want to

55:23recognize that Malden PD lowered the

55:26time that you were holding onto the data

55:27cuz it was originally 30 days and it's

55:29now 7 days, which I think is better.

55:31Um I see Flock recommended 7 days in

55:33that video and I I the ACLU recommends

55:3648 hours. How did you land on 7 days to

55:39retain the data?

55:40>> 7 days is the most restrictive amount of

55:43time that it will allow. It won't allow

55:45>> Like Flock won't allow less than 7 days?

55:48>> Correct. 7 is it. 7 is it. That's for

55:50the search parameters. So, when you're

55:52searching for your vehicle, you want to

55:53search for the last 15 minutes,

55:5520 minutes, 12 hours, 24 hours, or 30

55:58days if you're looking for a vehicle.

56:00You could that's just a tab you can

56:01pre-populate and it will put that amount

56:03of time.

56:04It went down to 7 days, we immediately

56:06went to 7 days.

56:07>> Okay. That's helpful.

56:09>> And we're we're able to we're willing to

56:11take the risk. Sometimes crimes are

56:13reported after 7 days. Unfortunately,

56:16that's when it's cut off and

56:17overwritten.

56:17>> Yeah.

56:18>> That's just the way it goes.

56:19>> I appreciate that. Um I want to say I

56:21think that the the controls you've

56:23outlined for Malden PD officers make a

56:25lot of sense to me. I appreciate that

56:27they're Are they audited every week

56:28because then the search goes away when

56:30the data goes away? Is that why?

56:31>> So, you audit Well, I'll just speak to

56:34this.

56:35Our policy there's been departments that

56:36are reaching out to us asking for our

56:38policy.

56:38>> Yeah.

56:39>> It is becoming an

56:40>> And I'm sorry, Chief. Do you Could you

56:41use the microphone just so they can hear

56:43they can hear

56:43>> becoming an industry standard our

56:44policy. And I will argue that we had one

56:47of the most restrictive policies from

56:49day one. A lot of departments had

56:51unabated access for their officers and

56:53their cruisers and that's fine. But

56:56once again,

56:57>> But we've seen in the news how that can

56:58go. Yeah.

56:59>> So, a lot of departments are reaching

57:01out having conversations with us about

57:03how they can tighten controls. And I'm

57:05>> I'm sure you're reading about that as

57:06well.

57:06>> Yes. Yes. So,

57:07>> feature as well.

57:08>> Um I just want to I want to like

57:09recognize and appreciate that I think

57:11Malden PD has really good audit controls

57:13from what I can tell from the system.

57:14And I think the descriptions matter, you

57:16know, even though if you download the

57:18data, you don't get the descriptions,

57:20but you all retain the descriptions of

57:21the search, correct?

57:24>> The log, correct. The log with that

57:26search log that

57:28on the system would live indefinitely.

57:30>> Right. Okay.

57:31>> Right. Yeah. So, I just So, I want to

57:33appreciate that and just acknowledge

57:34like the vast majority of my concerns

57:36are

57:37are about either Flock, the company, who

57:39has gotten themselves in trouble for

57:41Like, that Boston canceled their

57:42contract, as I'm sure you know, because

57:44Flock made an error about how they were

57:45like sharing Boston's data, but it's

57:48really the other communities and what on

57:51Earth process they have, and are they

57:53taking this as seriously? And so, do you

57:56know I mean, besides the ones who have

57:57proactively reached out to you, do you

57:59know anything about how they audit their

58:02data or how it's being used besides what

58:04shows up in that like whatever that

58:07office Let's pick on Melrose. So, an

58:09officer in Melrose decides to uh make a

58:12search.

58:13You don't Do you have any other

58:15information besides whatever they picked

58:16from the drop box and put in the box

58:18about what they did with that data or

58:20why they was used or anything like that?

58:22Or is that what you have?

58:26>> So, each community that you share your

58:28network with,

58:29>> Mhm.

58:29>> you can choose in terms of like And

58:31also, they can choose like that how it

58:32reciprocates. So, in terms of like that

58:35handshake, if they choose to like, "Hey,

58:37we're just going to let you, Malden PD,

58:39have access to our hot list alerts.

58:41You're not going to have search

58:42capabilities against our network." So,

58:44each So, to answer your question, it'd

58:46be difficult because each network has

58:49different agreements.

58:51As as do it all of them. Um

58:54The The standard agreement when that

58:56accepts like that like friend request

58:58would be like,

59:00"You have access to our data to search

59:02it on, and we do as well. It

59:04reciprocates."

59:05>> Right. But, what So, do we turn on the

59:08standard amount of data sharing with the

59:10other departments?

59:10>> only have access to 7 days.

59:12>> Se- Right.

59:13>> across it.

59:14>> All right. So, yeah, my question is like

59:16So, when they do the search Do we have

59:17any We have great audit controls for our

59:19own use. But, do we have audit controls

59:21for what on Earth Melrose decides to do?

59:26I'm just picking on Melrose.

59:29>> In terms of the the searches they're

59:30conducting?

59:31>> Yeah. Yeah. Like I mean, here's the

59:33scenario that like folks have asked me

59:35about, right? Okay. So, the some officer

59:37in Melrose even logs in and signs that

59:40waiver, but also has a buddy who's an

59:42officer in New Hampshire who actually

59:45works with federal

59:46agents on a whole different thing and

59:48that and says, "Hey, I got a case. Can

59:50you look this up?" Doesn't tell him

59:51doesn't say anything about what it's

59:52about. Officer logs it as whatever his

59:55friend said from New Hampshire and

59:57suddenly like we've kind of backdoored

59:59through this because they don't have as

1:00:01good controls as Malden does about how

1:00:03they're how they're how they're auditing

1:00:04their searches.

1:00:06Is what what hedges against that being

1:00:08able to happen?

1:00:11Like how do we prevent that from

1:00:12happening?

1:00:13>> They're held to the same standards for

1:00:14login. They have permissions. Um we They

1:00:17have policies. They have policy.

1:00:19Hypothetically, if some

1:00:21technology is not perfect. Um we have to

1:00:24do our best to put our restriction in

1:00:26place, right? So, if that happened to

1:00:28obviously, we would have an audit log of

1:00:30what happened, who ran it, exactly when

1:00:32it was,

1:00:33um the person, and the reason. We would

1:00:36have a record of that. Um

1:00:39I mean, that's the that's the best I

1:00:40answer I can tell you from another

1:00:42department. We would have a record.

1:00:43Anytime they search our database, even

1:00:45if the plate is not in there, there's a

1:00:46record.

1:00:47Uh we were just looking at the audit log

1:00:49today.

1:00:50And there was some searches in there

1:00:51that didn't have any plate yet. They

1:00:53just did the network search.

1:00:55The car committed a crime. They took

1:00:57off. They hit the whole network cuz they

1:00:58wanted to see which way they went. They

1:00:59didn't know anywhere. It didn't hit our

1:01:01cameras, but we still got a record of

1:01:03that search. So, should something happen

1:01:05to that effect, I think pretty quickly

1:01:07they're going to be able to drill down

1:01:08and find out how did that individual all

1:01:09of a sudden appear here?

1:01:11There's There's a few systems that they

1:01:13can look into and then there's the

1:01:14plate.

1:01:16I I feel an investigation that would be

1:01:19warranted that would be able to be

1:01:21concluded with a an outcome of finding

1:01:23out who did that, very simply.

1:01:27>> Got it. I mean, that's that's helpful to

1:01:28know.

1:01:29Um one other question I had about the

1:01:31Flock company and like how they're using

1:01:33the data, cuz I know they I know

1:01:36there's the terms of use on the on the

1:01:38website, which you and I had had an

1:01:39exchange about. So, I you know, I was

1:01:40reading through that. So, Flock does use

1:01:42data for training purposes for its own

1:01:44AI.

1:01:46Do you know are there other ways that it

1:01:47might be using our data that is not

1:01:49personally identifiable, but they might

1:01:51be analyzing it? They could couldn't

1:01:53they look for trends across communities?

1:01:55Can they do things that while they

1:01:57couldn't, you know, look they couldn't

1:01:58run a search on that black Ford SUV, but

1:02:01they could say, "Oh, how how many cars

1:02:04from Malden are going to Lynn?" And

1:02:06then, you know, map that some like I

1:02:08have no idea what kind of like

1:02:10non-identifiable analysis Flock can

1:02:12>> Sure, yes. said to us

1:02:14the only time that they would take

1:02:16information from

1:02:19the data blocks, so to speak, would be

1:02:21if they were going to

1:02:23His biggest example was a new license

1:02:24plate comes out from another state. They

1:02:26would take a license plate. They would

1:02:28strip the metadata off it. They would

1:02:30just take that license plate, use it for

1:02:32training, wherever they got that from.

1:02:34That is the only time that they would do

1:02:35something to that effect.

1:02:37I specifically asked the individual

1:02:39that.

1:02:39>> About whether they do any other analysis

1:02:41with the data.

1:02:42>> Well, I didn't ask about any other

1:02:43analysis, but they they said that they

1:02:45can't even get into it unless we request

1:02:47to get into trouble shooting. They said

1:02:48they don't have the permissions.

1:02:50>> Um I appreciate that they that there's

1:02:52an auditable log about if they go and

1:02:53look for individual things.

1:02:55Could we ask the Flock company if they

1:02:58conduct any analysis of our data?

1:03:00Because I'm I'm going to be honest,

1:03:02again, like Malden PD I think has

1:03:04demonstrated a great system. Flock, the

1:03:06company, has had a number of false

1:03:08starts and problems that they're now

1:03:10trying to clean up, I think, by

1:03:11>> easily get the answer to that.

1:03:12>> I would love to know if there's any

1:03:14analysis that they're doing cuz I or

1:03:16that they are allowed to do under the

1:03:18terms of use. Those are my questions for

1:03:19now. Thank you very much.

1:03:21>> you that answer.

1:03:21>> I appreciate that.

1:03:22>> Thank you, Councilor McDonald. Councilor

1:03:24O'Malley.

1:03:26>> Um this presentation has been really

1:03:28edifying and I appreciate it. Um you

1:03:31know, with any new technology,

1:03:34um we really have to figure out like

1:03:36what are the risks, what are the

1:03:37rewards.

1:03:39Um you know, we've we've and we're

1:03:40trying to balance you know, civil

1:03:42liberties, safety, etc.

1:03:44Um and you know, I think that we've you

1:03:46know, in the end Flock is a tech company

1:03:48and we've seen how some other

1:03:51um

1:03:52technology like social media has had

1:03:54negative effects over time that you

1:03:56might not have been able to see when you

1:03:57first came into it. Um but then later

1:04:00down the road, we see all the mental

1:04:01health issues. So I think for for us,

1:04:03what we're trying to figure out is, you

1:04:05know, yes, right now it's this, but what

1:04:08could this be in the future? And is is

1:04:10this the path we want to go down as a

1:04:12society? And it's very unusual, I think,

1:04:15for us to be in that seat. Doesn't I

1:04:17don't think technologies like this come

1:04:19up so frequently and we just happen to

1:04:21be the public servants here right now.

1:04:24Um and so I appreciate you coming to

1:04:26help teach us and I think showing the

1:04:28system was actually really helpful cuz I

1:04:30had never seen what that really looked

1:04:32like. So I think that that is a great

1:04:34opportunity and a a great example of

1:04:36Malden police, you know, leaning into

1:04:38community policing and building that

1:04:40trust, um which I think is helpful. Um

1:04:44The the the question I kind of have is

1:04:47it seems as though private entities can

1:04:50also purchase Flock cameras. And so if

1:04:53I'm a private entity and I want to have

1:04:54a Flock camera, um what type of sharing

1:04:58do we have with private entities?

1:05:00>> No sharing with law enforcement

1:05:01agencies. Um Steve can speak to that

1:05:04more.

1:05:05But um I I know it's you know, there

1:05:06there are private agencies that purchase

1:05:09that. They they cannot share with us.

1:05:10>> So Malden police does not share with

1:05:12entities. Only

1:05:13>> That's correct. No private such as

1:05:15retailers you may have seen or private

1:05:16housing communities we do not.

1:05:18>> Okay. Thank you.

1:05:19>> Cannot access it.

1:05:20>> Yeah, cuz I I that I mean cuz

1:05:22the the same rules that might apply to

1:05:23you know you know law enforcement does

1:05:26not apply necessarily to a private

1:05:28entity that wants to share with federal

1:05:31agencies etc. Um

1:05:33the the hyper the the search that you

1:05:35did that hypothetical search you did was

1:05:37really interesting and it seemed as

1:05:39though you had you had only used it for

1:05:42Malden the Malden network and we got

1:05:45three hits.

1:05:46Um and it was limited between you said

1:05:4810:06 and 10:30.

1:05:50>> That's correct.

1:05:50>> What would a and and our retention is 7

1:05:55days but other communities have longer.

1:05:57If you had not limited it to that

1:05:59specific window but instead said the

1:06:02full 30 days and all of the network like

1:06:04what would something like that pull back

1:06:06like just where everywhere that car has

1:06:08driven in the last 30 days?

1:06:11Is

1:06:12>> Yes, it could.

1:06:14We could end up so that was the Teledyne

1:06:16okay he's found that was just an alert

1:06:18so right?

1:06:19Excuse me.

1:06:21>> He left his alerts on when this

1:06:22happened.

1:06:24>> And I understand and it it's it's

1:06:27>> Do you want do you want me

1:06:27>> It's a you know we could we could

1:06:29recreate these and we could like if you

1:06:31just said black show me all black SUVs

1:06:33right? Within a 24-hour period in Malden

1:06:36or all networks.

1:06:38A it's limited to

1:06:40100 pages at a time and you're going to

1:06:41get

1:06:43a voluminous amount of images right? If

1:06:46you drill down and and you'll discover

1:06:47that the you know your lead your lead in

1:06:49that case and you develop that full

1:06:51plate and you want to see for the past 7

1:06:53days where that vehicle has been

1:06:55operated because you know you're

1:06:56investigating it further

1:06:58you could do so you may get 3 400 etc.

1:07:00but to put a number on it is difficult

1:07:03but hypothetically if we were to do

1:07:05these searches every one is going to be

1:07:06different because every search parameter

1:07:10is different. Time frames are different.

1:07:13Uh vehicle information is different. So,

1:07:15you know, I mean, they start with a

1:07:16plate or not a plate.

1:07:18>> So, the Malden data would just be for

1:07:19the 7 days, but beyond Malden, it could

1:07:21be back to the 30 days.

1:07:24>> Correct. So, if that search was

1:07:25performed and I and I selected 14 days,

1:07:28for example, and I had results within

1:07:30Malden,

1:07:31it'd be 7 days with the results in

1:07:32Malden. And then, if there was if that

1:07:35car

1:07:36was detected on the camera in Melrose,

1:07:37in Revere, and let's say the Cape

1:07:40somewhere, those would show up if their

1:07:43retention was in with that search

1:07:44window.

1:07:45>> And can other states share with us? I

1:07:47know that we don't share with other

1:07:48states, but could other states states

1:07:50share with us? Like, can we access other

1:07:52states?

1:07:53>> Yes.

1:07:53>> Okay.

1:07:53>> Yeah. Yes. So, correct.

1:07:56>> Okay.

1:07:57Um

1:07:58and I mean, and it's part of this like

1:08:00the framing of like, you know, where

1:08:02does this go in the future? And so, you

1:08:04know, right now it's license plates, but

1:08:07um you know, and facial recognition, it

1:08:09sounds like it's not being done natively

1:08:11in the system, but if you were to

1:08:13download or I think you said

1:08:17Yeah, if you were you'd like to make the

1:08:18local record, that if for some reason

1:08:20you did get a face, you could then run

1:08:22that through a facial recognition

1:08:24software.

1:08:25>> Um

1:08:25>> We don't utilize facial recognition.

1:08:28Um I I don't even know if it would be

1:08:29possible in a particular photo depending

1:08:32on the

1:08:33>> the quality.

1:08:33>> Yeah, the quality of the of the

1:08:36the picture. But, you just made a point.

1:08:39Um

1:08:40I want to be clear that

1:08:42Flock other

1:08:44uh software technology, they have

1:08:46add-ons that they

1:08:48can try to sell. I haven't seen them,

1:08:50but I've heard about them. Drones,

1:08:52facial recognition, do a workup on the

1:08:54license plate. We are not interested in

1:08:56any of that.

1:08:57We are here for Flock. We're interested

1:08:59in Flock. We don't want to expand the

1:09:01Flock system as it is currently that you

1:09:03saw the demo on. We're not interested in

1:09:06any of that type of technology. We

1:09:07understand. We've learned. And that's

1:09:10why we want to keep it locked down and

1:09:11we want to respect the technology and

1:09:14help the citizens of Malden as much as

1:09:15possible with the strict oversight we

1:09:17have.

1:09:18>> And I appreciate that cuz I think it

1:09:19kind of highlights the fact that I think

1:09:20there's a lot of trust in the in the

1:09:23relationship in the community policing

1:09:24that Malden police has, you know,

1:09:26fostered over the years. And but when

1:09:29we're dealing with a private entity,

1:09:31we're really just dealing with what

1:09:32their policies are. And I think that

1:09:34that that is the challenge is that those

1:09:35policies can change, those add-ons can

1:09:38be tweaked, and I think that that's just

1:09:40kind of the situation that we're trying

1:09:41to grapple with. I'm not saying that I

1:09:43necessarily have the answer here, but

1:09:45this is the the challenge that we're

1:09:46trying to, you know,

1:09:48um

1:09:49uh ferret out. Uh and I also just want

1:09:51to say that I appreciate you the good

1:09:52old-fashioned policing that y'all done.

1:09:54I've previ- re- recently been able to

1:09:56see what that's like, and I do

1:09:57appreciate the professionalism that you

1:09:59y'all handled that uh and helping solve

1:10:02uh you know, challenges. And and I did

1:10:04see that it was primarily related and

1:10:07and based on, you know, personal

1:10:08relationships and really knowing the

1:10:10community in order to solve those

1:10:12crimes. So, I think you guys do a great

1:10:14work and I appreciate your your effort

1:10:16to help us understand this as we grapple

1:10:19with what we decide to do as a

1:10:20community. Um I have more questions, but

1:10:22I don't want to be too long-winded, and

1:10:24I'll hand it off. Did you Did

1:10:26I'll hand it off to the next person.

1:10:28Thank you.

1:10:28>> Okay, thank you, Councilor O'Malley.

1:10:30Councilor Crow.

1:10:31>> Thank you. Thank you for this. It was

1:10:33very informative. I do have some of the

1:10:35sort of some of the same questions, but

1:10:36kind of building off some of the things

1:10:37about the facial recognition and the um

1:10:41you know, underage kids. And so, you

1:10:43know, if it's if they have in these

1:10:45add-ons, and we're not interested, but

1:10:48Okay, we'll pick on Rivier. I don't know

1:10:49why.

1:10:50The um you know, but they decide to do

1:10:52it. So, if they search us, is there a

1:10:54way to block out, you know, usually if

1:10:57you do a Google search for even a house

1:11:00or anything, everyone's blocked out

1:11:01besides

1:11:03the house and, you know, the address.

1:11:05So, you know what I mean? You kind of

1:11:07it's automatically

1:11:08deducted from anything that's in there.

1:11:11So, someone else that's using that, they

1:11:13can't access it even though we're not

1:11:16using it.

1:11:17Does that make sense?

1:11:19>> So, in other words, if they have

1:11:22the facial recognition software and we

1:11:24don't and we do a query and does it

1:11:27access their system like

1:11:28>> the other way around. I think it the

1:11:30conversation was sort of more about we

1:11:33know that Malden has, you know, yeah, is

1:11:36on top of this and is very tight. Not,

1:11:38you know, we where everybody has

1:11:40different opinions. And so, again, if

1:11:43so, say someone from Revere did a search

1:11:47and a kid was in there or somebody else

1:11:49was sort of, you know, there,

1:11:52the it'll show they're on the that's not

1:11:55Malden, and what they're looking for at

1:11:56all pictures, is there a way to

1:11:59automatically block that out cuz even if

1:12:01they have facial recognition, they're

1:12:03not seeing our faces.

1:12:08Or do we know what who has what

1:12:11add-ons?

1:12:11>> We do.

1:12:12>> So,

1:12:12>> And we control that. So, we control and

1:12:15each community controls what they would

1:12:16like to share with us in terms of if

1:12:18there were any hypothetical,

1:12:20um again, I don't know what they they

1:12:22are in terms of like the suite of what

1:12:23they can provide as, you know, as a

1:12:25customer, but we don't subscribe to

1:12:26anything beyond their

1:12:28license plate reader detection

1:12:29technology.

1:12:31Um but if there were, we would have to

1:12:33allow it, they would have to also allow

1:12:36and we do not beyond what we do now.

1:12:37>> So, we don't allow them to have facial

1:12:40recognition.

1:12:40>> No.

1:12:41>> Even though they might have it,

1:12:42>> We just don't let them use it. Agency by

1:12:44agency?

1:12:45>> Right. Right.

1:12:46And do we do any I know we do audits for

1:12:49our police, but we do when we look at,

1:12:50you know, I know that you there is a a

1:12:52list of who does the searches from other

1:12:54communities and what reason. Is there

1:12:56anything that kind of looks that odd and

1:12:58says like, "Okay, this, you know, Lynn,

1:13:01whatever, you know, Melrose is looking

1:13:03an awful lot and seems to be the same

1:13:05sort of people that we say, you know,

1:13:08what's going on here cuz, you know, we

1:13:09don't know sure if they have the same

1:13:11controls

1:13:12um that you that we do um just to make

1:13:15sure that it's not getting filtered that

1:13:17you mean so do you ever look at those

1:13:19and then have conversations say, "You

1:13:20know what? They don't seem to be using

1:13:22it the way we want it to be used so

1:13:24we're maybe not sharing with Sea Conk

1:13:28anymore."

1:13:29>> Yeah. And I can understand your question

1:13:30and it's valid and and the concern about

1:13:32the privacy and

1:13:33and like like I want to reiterate like

1:13:35all the safeguards in place.

1:13:36>> Mhm.

1:13:37>> Every search conducted, you know, law

1:13:39enforcement legitimate purpose requires

1:13:42an offense category type. So, there's

1:13:43like 40 we could drop down we go through

1:13:45them all. And they're required to put a

1:13:46report number in as well. A network

1:13:48audit if someone requests it from us and

1:13:50we were able to conduct it on our own

1:13:52network, I'm able to see what agencies

1:13:54are searching against our network.

1:13:57>> Right.

1:13:57>> And then you know that those are things

1:13:58that are Yes, we do record that. Yes.

1:14:01>> So, it's a little different. Okay. Thank

1:14:03you.

1:14:03>> Okay. Thank you, Counselor Crow.

1:14:06Um Counselor Sica.

1:14:08>> Thank you, Council President.

1:14:13So, I got a little something

1:14:15prepared because I've been going back

1:14:17and forth with this for about a month

1:14:18now.

1:14:19So,

1:14:21many things in life

1:14:24have the potential to be abused or

1:14:26misused, but that doesn't mean we stop

1:14:29using them.

1:14:31Just about everything that we do in our

1:14:34life has the potential of being abused.

1:14:37If we made every decision based solely

1:14:40on what could go wrong, we would never

1:14:43move forward with any kind of new

1:14:46technology.

1:14:48The possibilities of misuse should lead

1:14:51us to establish safeguards, oversight,

1:14:54and accountability, not automatically

1:14:56reject a tool that has the potential to

1:14:59do so much good.

1:15:02After listening to Chief Gackstetter's

1:15:03presentation this evening, I firmly

1:15:06believe the MPD has established that

1:15:09oversight and put those safeguards in

1:15:12place, and the benefits of Flock safety

1:15:15cameras far outweigh the risks.

1:15:18If this technology can help solve a

1:15:21serious crime or protect even one Malden

1:15:25family, that benefit deserves serious

1:15:29consideration.

1:15:31We should not allow the fear of what

1:15:34might happen to overshadow the good this

1:15:37technology can accomplish in keeping our

1:15:41residents safe.

1:15:43I trust Chief Gackstetter and the

1:15:46members of our police department, and I

1:15:48believe that with appropriate safeguards

1:15:51and accountability, this technology can

1:15:54be a valuable public safety tool.

1:15:57As city councilors, we have a

1:15:59responsibility to protect the residents

1:16:03of Malden, and I believe the benefits

1:16:06far outweigh the potential risks when

1:16:09the proper safeguards are in place.

1:16:13And if you didn't already know, I am in

1:16:15full support of Flock cameras for us to

1:16:17be used in the city of Malden. Thank

1:16:19you.

1:16:21>> Thank you, Councilor Seka. I'm going to

1:16:23go to Councilor Clone Hayes for the

1:16:25second time.

1:16:26>> Thank you. Um so, a couple more

1:16:28questions now about um

1:16:30the data collection. And again, um

1:16:33this whole exercise is

1:16:35to

1:16:36so people out you know, we get calls all

1:16:38the time. I know you know this. I talk

1:16:39to you all the time, Chief. Give you a

1:16:40call. But people need to know what our

1:16:42safeguards are. We might know what they

1:16:44are, but the public needs to know, so

1:16:46this why all these questions. So, the

1:16:48data safety part, um the IT, do do you

1:16:51Does the Malden public um Does your

1:16:53police department keep that or does our

1:16:55IT um

1:16:57keep that data?

1:16:59Or is it Well, actually now it's Flock.

1:17:00>> out like that.

1:17:01>> Wait.

1:17:01>> It's not No, it's the BIOS. It's hosted

1:17:03by a third-party vendor, AWS.

1:17:04>> Oh, sorry.

1:17:05>> Or like who's

1:17:06Or like who's pulling the information

1:17:07for FOIA request Like who does that?

1:17:10>> The FOIA requests or the managing of the

1:17:12technology?

1:17:13>> Oh, let's start with the managing of the

1:17:15data.

1:17:15>> management. It's all overseen by AWS,

1:17:17Amazon Web Service or Amazon Web

1:17:20Software. They are the third-party

1:17:21vendor. They are an industry standard.

1:17:23They oversee all that data. They make

1:17:25sure it's maintained, it's uh

1:17:27overwritten, it's erased in a 7-day

1:17:28period. They are the one to oversee it.

1:17:30They They work with several companies.

1:17:32They are the ones that take care of

1:17:33that. It's not us hitting delete every

1:17:35>> Okay.

1:17:36>> They They have a whole process. They are

1:17:38a third-party that just

1:17:40>> Yeah, that's a huge That's why I Yeah, I

1:17:41was asking. It's a huge ordeal.

1:17:43Um so then still on that um

1:17:46I'm sure it's probably in our contract

1:17:48or something like Do we know what their

1:17:49safeguards are like for like hacks,

1:17:51potential hacks, and stuff like that?

1:17:53Like um

1:17:54>> So, there was an interesting video that

1:17:56that was presented. Um there was There

1:17:59was some questions going around that a

1:18:00camera may or may not have been hacked.

1:18:02So-called hacked of the Flock system.

1:18:05What they did was they hired

1:18:07who they felt was one of the most

1:18:09reputable law enforcement agencies in

1:18:10the country. That was Miami-Dade. There

1:18:12was a video on on that. They interviewed

1:18:14the individual who was in charge of that

1:18:1650-person team of investigators,

1:18:20um computer forensic people that are on

1:18:22task force and whatnot. And they were

1:18:23tasked with breaking into the Flock

1:18:25system and in short order they were

1:18:27unable to do that, and that's

1:18:28documented.

1:18:30That's That's what I I'm not a network

1:18:31engineer, but that's what I can tell

1:18:33you. I think there was a question about

1:18:34a camera that might have been out there.

1:18:36It was not linked to the system for what

1:18:38I understand. It didn't have certain

1:18:39updates

1:18:41and somebody might have referred that

1:18:42but Flock indicated that they wanted to

1:18:46do the best they could to see if

1:18:47somebody could infiltrate the system and

1:18:49that was the result.

1:18:50>> Okay, great.

1:18:52So

1:18:53and these this has been really helpful

1:18:56and

1:18:57this is a big deal. It's not just

1:18:59Maldon, you know this. I'm not telling

1:19:00you anything that you don't know

1:19:02and so as counselors we just want to

1:19:04make sure that you know we're asking all

1:19:05the right questions and it was very

1:19:08helpful to hear

1:19:09about our safeguards and how you're

1:19:11keeping our information safe.

1:19:14So one last question will be on those um

1:19:18alerts. I think you just got one. So

1:19:21is everyone signed up for these alerts

1:19:23and just to make sure I heard that

1:19:24right, you're getting an alert that like

1:19:27of someone's accessing the Flock data or

1:19:29someone like what are those alerts?

1:19:31>> So officers are able to receive alerts

1:19:34as detective Okay, he said.

1:19:36They can receive it a couple of

1:19:37different ways, through text on the

1:19:39computer. That's all they can receive.

1:19:41They cannot go into the system.

1:19:44He administers that that permission for

1:19:46them and the only permission is they

1:19:47receive an alert. A vehicle goes under a

1:19:49camera, they hit an alert for I believe

1:19:52it's six different reasons within our

1:19:54policy. Stolen vehicle, wanted person,

1:19:57endangered missing person, license plate

1:19:59stolen and then maybe one of the

1:20:01criteria.

1:20:02Somebody goes on to alert hits the

1:20:04officers that just says the camera hit

1:20:06this and was going in this direction.

1:20:08>> So they would know what it is.

1:20:09>> They automatically enter when it goes

1:20:11into what's the NCIC computer. It

1:20:13coordinates with Flock. It does not

1:20:15access any information. It sends that

1:20:17info to Flock and now that's ready to go

1:20:19for alerts. We can put an alert in. If

1:20:22we had a vehicle that conducted any type

1:20:24of crime and then we felt the need that

1:20:26we need to put our own alert in. We the

1:20:28supervisor or the detective under of

1:20:30supervisor

1:20:32direction would go into the system,

1:20:34would take this plate, and they would

1:20:36create an alert. That would mean if it

1:20:38hits any camera in and around the area,

1:20:40he can make it to to our network or full

1:20:43network. If it goes under the camera, it

1:20:44says that vehicle is wanted by the Mall

1:20:46of America Police Department. Please

1:20:48corroborate any information before you

1:20:51um move forward with any type of

1:20:53enforcement action. Uh that's the same

1:20:55thing with the stolen motor vehicle in

1:20:56general. If a if an officer is

1:20:57>> Alert or almost, but like

1:20:59>> I'm sorry?

1:20:59>> It almost sounds like an Amber Alert,

1:21:00but like focus on like

1:21:02>> It is. It's It's just an alert. They can

1:21:04only receive an alert. They cannot input

1:21:06anything.

1:21:07>> Okay.

1:21:08>> And

1:21:09>> [clears throat]

1:21:10>> just two other points I'll make. One is

1:21:13I think it's important as a successful

1:21:14police department to pivot. We've

1:21:16changed our policy, I think, twice or

1:21:18three times over this past year. There

1:21:20were things that we needed to add to

1:21:22make the safe guides even more

1:21:23restrictive, and we wanted them to make

1:21:25sure they were in bold print. So, you

1:21:26might have seen that the policy has

1:21:28changed that's online that we update for

1:21:31that reason. The other thing is we have

1:21:32other software programs that um

1:21:36carry much more detailed and biological

1:21:38and and

1:21:40personal data that officers have access

1:21:42to day in and day out. Other other

1:21:44departments, uh police reports,

1:21:47dates of birth, criminal records,

1:21:49license plates,

1:21:50a whole array of information.

1:21:52They have to the same standards that of

1:21:54course with with the policies we're

1:21:55accredited. We have to adhere to 350

1:21:59uh standards and approximately 110

1:22:01policies. These are all part of that

1:22:03process. We chose to be accredited

1:22:06because it was our choice. We don't have

1:22:08to. So, all of those systems have to be

1:22:11accessed in the same manner as Flock. Um

1:22:14so, there's there's many different ways

1:22:16an officer can find information, just

1:22:18not just

1:22:18>> holding a lot I know. You're holding a

1:22:20lot of information.

1:22:20>> tough oversight with that as well. We're

1:22:22We're dealing with Flock right now, but

1:22:24we haven't had any issues with officers

1:22:26taking information and giving it to

1:22:28another agency or anything like that in

1:22:30in recently

1:22:31but I just want to make that point as

1:22:33well. They they have access to their

1:22:35fingertips to other systems.

1:22:36>> Yeah, um

1:22:37no, that's understandable. And I I

1:22:39lastly I just want to thank you both.

1:22:42Thank all the everybody who came here

1:22:44tonight but also just thank you for

1:22:45answering the questions honestly and not

1:22:48getting defensive and understanding

1:22:50where this is coming from and it's just

1:22:51a huge

1:22:53um

1:22:54you know, deal responding in this way

1:22:56gives builds trust. So um thank you for

1:22:59that very

1:22:59>> Feel free to reach out with any

1:23:01additional questions that you get. We'll

1:23:02do our best to answer them and we'll

1:23:04answer the questions that came forward

1:23:05that we didn't quite have the answer

1:23:06from the company for.

1:23:08>> Perfect. Thank you so much.

1:23:09>> Okay.

1:23:11>> Thank you for the opportunity.

1:23:12>> Mhm.

1:23:12>> Appreciate it.

1:23:13>> Yeah. Thank you both.

1:23:15Seeing

1:23:15>> Mhm.

1:23:17>> Yeah, I was going to say seeing no other

1:23:18lights um

1:23:21Can I Can I recognize the the chair of

1:23:23the

1:23:24Yeah, come come on up to the podium. You

1:23:26can

1:23:27>> Thank you so much.

1:23:29>> Can you just introduce yourself again? I

1:23:31know we recognized you earlier but

1:23:32>> I am Britney Torelli. I am the clerk of

1:23:34the Police Community Advisory Council.

1:23:36>> Thank you.

1:23:37>> Um I had two questions on the audits. So

1:23:40on the graphic up there it said that

1:23:43there were 60 total searches in that

1:23:4630-day period. How many audits

1:23:49internally like what's the ratio?

1:23:52So do you audit all 60 of those

1:23:55searches?

1:23:56>> So the

1:23:57searches connected against

1:23:58>> Oh yeah, can you please come back to the

1:23:59microphone? And again I just want for

1:24:01the public watching the the advisory

1:24:04council is an is a docketed guest for

1:24:06tonight so that's why we are taking

1:24:08an interaction. This is again not a

1:24:10public hearing but because they're an

1:24:11invited guest.

1:24:13Thank you for answering that. Great job.

1:24:14Thanks for coming.

1:24:15>> Yes. So appreciate the question. I think

1:24:17I understand it. So the question is

1:24:19during that 30-day period on the network

1:24:21there was 60 searches conducted against

1:24:23our data.

1:24:24Of those 60, how many of them were like

1:24:27eyes on? What specific search like

1:24:30like auditing each search?

1:24:31>> weekly audits. On your weekly audits

1:24:34internally, are all 60 of those searches

1:24:37reviewed or is it a different percentage

1:24:39of how many of those searches are

1:24:41reviewed? Or maybe I'm thinking of an

1:24:43incorrect thing.

1:24:44>> And can you just repeat the question so

1:24:46it can catch on the microphone for the

1:24:48recording?

1:24:49>> Sure. So, the question is what you can

1:24:51So,

1:24:51the question is

1:24:53during a 30-day period

1:24:56for example, on the Malden Police

1:24:57Transparency Portal

1:24:59it lists there is approximately, I

1:25:00believe, 60 searches conducted in that

1:25:02time frame.

1:25:04And as mentioned in the presentation,

1:25:06weekly audits are performed internally

1:25:09during the oversight of the system.

1:25:11The question, I believe I have it

1:25:12correctly, is

1:25:14are each one of those searches

1:25:15independently reviewed?

1:25:18Is that correct?

1:25:19>> I think I guess maybe I don't understand

1:25:21the audit, right? So, those are searches

1:25:24conducted. How many of those searches

1:25:26are audited?

1:25:28>> So, so weekly there's an

1:25:30audit So, there's a tremendous amount of

1:25:32data, right? So, you can imagine the

1:25:35the audit assistance feature

1:25:38which myself and Captain Hopkins, the

1:25:40CID Commander

1:25:42do that together weekly.

1:25:44The system goes through

1:25:46the network, the searches, any activity.

1:25:50There are four parameters and I don't

1:25:52want to quote them mis- misquote them

1:25:53here, but it will flag and say, "Look at

1:25:56this one. Look at this one. Look at this

1:25:58one." So, for instance, searches

1:26:00conducted beyond your retention period.

1:26:02So, if a user was to search something

1:26:04say for 30 days

1:26:06that would flag it. If a user was to

1:26:08search something repeatedly, that would

1:26:10flag it. If a user was a one-off search,

1:26:13that would flag it. So, there are there

1:26:14are certain flags to size that these are

1:26:17pre-

1:26:18determined.

1:26:20audit assistance features that they're

1:26:23looking at the data

1:26:24including the searches and they're

1:26:26saying

1:26:27Malden police administrator, we'd like

1:26:29you to review this one and like you

1:26:31know, red little flag and then you put

1:26:33eyes on it and then for instance a

1:26:35one-off search. So, for example, if

1:26:37there are 100 users

1:26:39just as an example and if only one user

1:26:42searched plate 1 2 3 4

1:26:44that would be an instance where it may

1:26:46detect that this is something to look

1:26:47at.

1:26:48And then while reviewing that which why

1:26:51this has come across our desk

1:26:53there are notes just like the officer

1:26:54had put in

1:26:55conducted this inquiry based upon a bolo

1:26:59out of Melrose for a stolen motor

1:27:00vehicle that came across traditional

1:27:01means whether it's the radio

1:27:04um teletype or other means. So

1:27:07there are some instances where only one

1:27:09investigator or supervisor conducts a

1:27:11search. Now in a major investigation

1:27:13there are 10 detectives approximately

1:27:15and we're all probably working on a

1:27:16major case at once. So those aggregated

1:27:19searches we're all searching for that

1:27:21one

1:27:22vehicle if it's relative to the case.

1:27:25Um but there are certain parameters

1:27:27where

1:27:28it's asking you to further look at.

1:27:31>> And so those are the ones that you

1:27:33audit, the ones that have been flagged.

1:27:36>> Correct. And then traditionally before

1:27:38that feature was implemented on this

1:27:40within the the software

1:27:42the logs themselves

1:27:45are available for review fully.

1:27:47>> Okay.

1:27:48Okay.

1:27:49And then a follow-up question to that.

1:27:51You guys you you said full network

1:27:54audit. Is that different than the weekly

1:27:56audit that you are conducting? That was

1:27:58in context of talking about when other

1:28:01cities and communities are searching our

1:28:05database in Malden. Is there any

1:28:07distinction there just a clarifying

1:28:08question?

1:28:09>> Yes, so the the terms that you they

1:28:11utilize on on administrative side is

1:28:14like a network audit. So, frequently

1:28:16what we've received and we've complied

1:28:17with requests for records. So, if

1:28:19someone's going to ask us, you know,

1:28:21through a FOIA request

1:28:22the network and organizational audit.

1:28:24So, an organizational audit is going to

1:28:26tell

1:28:27a requester the specifics about Malden's

1:28:29system. You know, Malden Police has 12

1:28:31cameras.

1:28:33And this is the specifics of the system.

1:28:34The network audit would show

1:28:36what Malden Police's camera network is

1:28:39searching against and what searching

1:28:41against our network. Um

1:28:43But I understand in terms of there's no

1:28:45specified um

1:28:47audit specific in place to review every

1:28:49single

1:28:50network search.

1:28:52>> Okay.

1:28:52>> Yes.

1:28:52>> And then I have one other question. Is

1:28:54that all right?

1:28:56>> Sorry. Can move I can move the

1:28:57microphone.

1:28:58>> Yep. Absolutely true. So, then my second

1:29:00question, one of the pieces of um

1:29:02feedback and community concern that PCAC

1:29:04has gotten is is when you did that

1:29:08search in the Flock system and you

1:29:11pulled up and there was a pinpointed

1:29:13location, right? So, you had the

1:29:15um

1:29:16details of the Ford and you had it where

1:29:19it was. There was a pinpointed location.

1:29:21If you were to

1:29:23look about a whole day, would that map

1:29:27show every hit on the Flock camera

1:29:31throughout Malden?

1:29:36>> If there were detections on one of the

1:29:3811 cameras in the past by a snapshot

1:29:41time,

1:29:43you know, you can you can view it just

1:29:45like some data you want to a list view.

1:29:47You want to see the photos. So, if

1:29:49hypothetically, if we search 24 hours,

1:29:51if that vehicle, which is an unmarked

1:29:53police vehicle by the city of Malden, uh

1:29:55it's a detective's vehicle. So, if we

1:29:56search the full plate for a 24-hour

1:29:58period, you would see where that vehicle

1:30:01traveled

1:30:02if it went past a Flock

1:30:05location.

1:30:06>> Mhm.

1:30:06>> It doesn't track in lifetime. It's

1:30:09historical snapshots.

1:30:11>> Right. And so, the reason I asked that

1:30:13question is it it feels like people are

1:30:16confused about the difference or that

1:30:20ability, right? So, people are worried

1:30:22about mapping and and individuals having

1:30:25access to where a car has traveled in

1:30:28order to pick up patterns, locations,

1:30:32where they're going, why they're going,

1:30:33like additional information

1:30:36without a warrant, without a need for

1:30:38that information, but we can see that,

1:30:40right? And so, the concern that we've

1:30:43heard a lot at the PCAC is is

1:30:47even though it is a snapshot in time,

1:30:50hypothetically, if you did a search for

1:30:54this license plate for the whole entire

1:30:56day and looked at a map, you would be

1:30:59able to see that this car traveled from

1:31:02one side of Malden to the other.

1:31:06If it hits all those cameras.

1:31:08>> And I understand the concern and in the

1:31:10question.

1:31:11Again, I would I would say that it's

1:31:13it's specific to every query and every

1:31:15search conducted, we need a legitimate

1:31:17law enforcement reason and a report

1:31:19number. So, every search conducted,

1:31:21although I know you're concerned with

1:31:23someone individually aggregating that

1:31:24data and conducting their own

1:31:27map. Um that could be said for for every

1:31:30search you conduct, you could just

1:31:31expand, but every search is for a

1:31:34legitimate law enforcement or public

1:31:35safety reason.

1:31:37>> So, we would just hope that does not

1:31:39occur.

1:31:42And it doesn't. Fair.

1:31:43Thank you.

1:31:45>> So, every search needs to be done

1:31:47There's a There's a dual There's a dual

1:31:49factor search, we'll call it. The

1:31:52officer goes to what to a a place,

1:31:55they want to run that plate that you

1:31:56just talked about,

1:31:57the street supervisor shows up, he he or

1:32:00she needs to be explained the reason to

1:32:02run that plate. Maybe it's an endangered

1:32:05person.

1:32:06We're not sure. It goes in and it tells

1:32:08you, "Yes, how many times did it hit the

1:32:09camera?" Maybe it hit 11 times like you

1:32:11said. It was for a valid law enforcement

1:32:14reason. Now, maybe they put the camera

1:32:16and they put the wrong plate

1:32:17hypothetically, right? And it comes up

1:32:19just by chance. That's not going to be

1:32:21saved. It's gone in 7 days, just like

1:32:23any other inquiry. It It stays in that

1:32:26so-called file cabinet that the

1:32:28information is not coming out and being

1:32:29downloaded. So, the search is for a

1:32:31valid legitimate law enforcement reason

1:32:33that we talked about extensively.

1:32:36Um however many times it hits the

1:32:38camera, it hits the camera, but we're

1:32:39not taking that information and saving

1:32:41it unless it was used in a crime and we

1:32:43need it for court. It becomes part of

1:32:45the evidentiary package, it gets

1:32:46downloaded, and it sits on a shelf.

1:32:49Okay. So, that's it. So, if there's a

1:32:50mistake, it just goes away. That's it.

1:32:52If it's not saved, hypothetically, we we

1:32:54do a partial plate and it comes back to

1:32:56another vehicle. We do a little bit of

1:32:58investigation, not the car. See you

1:33:00later. It's gone. 7 days, it it's not

1:33:03even there. Nobody can access that and

1:33:05FOIA it. So, we have a large amount of

1:33:08information.

1:33:10People want to FOIA and think they might

1:33:11be able to get a day's worth of data. We

1:33:13can't even do that. We have to have a

1:33:15valid need to search for a particular

1:33:17plate for that reason because we don't

1:33:19want to be able to stalk someone. But

1:33:21someone might want a day's worth of data

1:33:22and then the next day and then the next

1:33:23day and guess what? Now all this

1:33:25information is out there. They can do

1:33:27their own stalking. A third party can

1:33:29sit there and check all these plates. Um

1:33:31and I I understand that we we're

1:33:34allegedly losing data. We're not losing

1:33:36data. The data was there. We didn't

1:33:38download it to that file like we

1:33:40explained. It stayed in that large cloud

1:33:43that we never accessed. So, that's how

1:33:46the system works. We only tap into it

1:33:47for the reasons that we've talked about

1:33:49extensively. If it goes onto the shelf

1:33:51for court or another reason, then it can

1:33:53be FOIA-able. They can get the CSV

1:33:54files. If not, it's just up there. If

1:33:57somebody wants a day's worth of data, we

1:33:58can't get it. There is no way we can

1:34:00make up a fake report number and

1:34:02download all that information of 100,000

1:34:04license plates. It's just it it's not

1:34:06feasible. It it's not accessible for us

1:34:09into the system, if that makes sense.

1:34:11So, I'm just I'm just throwing that out

1:34:12there cuz I know there was some

1:34:13discussion about that. That's our

1:34:15position here. We cannot do it. We can

1:34:17only do it the way that you just saw it.

1:34:19>> The chief if I can add to

1:34:21Just a quick example

1:34:24example I provide us

1:34:26the lobby of this city hall.

1:34:28The cameras were here.

1:34:30Whatever retention schedule that's on,

1:34:31whether it's 7 days, 30 days, 15 days,

1:34:35that's video.

1:34:37So, if there's anything in the lobby

1:34:38after this meeting, an investigation

1:34:40conducted,

1:34:42an investigator would be able to review

1:34:43video.

1:34:44Say from 8:00 a.m. to 8:00 p.m. That's a

1:34:46possibility with video.

1:34:49The Flock is a historical snapshot. We

1:34:52don't have the ability to pull up a

1:34:54camera at one of those 11 locations and

1:34:57scroll through

1:34:58100,000 images. The system does not

1:35:00allow it. It's built

1:35:03to not allow us to do that. And the

1:35:04safeguards in place require us to

1:35:07have a reason and a report number.

1:35:12>> And then I just had one definition. What

1:35:14is a hot list?

1:35:17>> A hot list is something

1:35:20but say a patrol alert user. So, patrol

1:35:23officer driving down the road in their

1:35:26marked or unmarked vehicle,

1:35:28if they subscribe to it, if they're

1:35:30enrolled in the program, could choose to

1:35:32get an alert. So, if a vehicle is

1:35:34entered,

1:35:35stolen car, stolen plate,

1:35:37um

1:35:38missing endangered person, amber alert,

1:35:40etc., they would get those alerts.

1:35:42>> Okay, so those are the alerts that

1:35:43>> Yes.

1:35:44>> Okay. Okay, I just wanted to know.

1:35:45>> Yes.

1:35:45>> Thank you.

1:35:46>> You're welcome.

1:35:48>> Okay. Thank you. No other [snorts]

1:35:51questions based on what we just heard,

1:35:53any further comments?

1:35:56Okay, well we spent two hours on this,

1:35:57so I think we've probably exhausted

1:35:59ourselves.

1:36:00Um, I want to thank you both so much,

1:36:02and Britney, thank you so much for being

1:36:03here as well. Um,

1:36:05thank you Ally and Chuck. I'm I'm sure

1:36:06you're really upset we didn't have

1:36:07questions for you, but thank you for

1:36:09being here and spending the time.

1:36:11Oh.

1:36:14That's fine. You're and you're not

1:36:16Counselor Luong, I take it. You're just

1:36:18sharing a microphone. Counselor

1:36:19O'Malley.

1:36:20>> So actually my my question was for the

1:36:21the our finance team and our legal team.

1:36:24>> You almost got off the hook.

1:36:25>> Sorry. And this is not this is not this

1:36:27is not alleging anything. This is

1:36:29something that when we were discussing

1:36:31this and people were asking questions, I

1:36:33didn't really know the answer to.

1:36:35And so would you be able to explain like

1:36:37what the process is of how the city

1:36:39contracts and signs contracts. Because I

1:36:42know that in a lot of in a lot of

1:36:44organizations there are different like

1:36:46authorities in terms of like

1:36:48can a department head like a director

1:36:50might be able to approve a contract up

1:36:52to $50,000. You know, a department head

1:36:54might be able to do it up to $100,000.

1:36:57And then the mayor might have to do

1:36:58something like beyond 500,000 or

1:37:00something like that. Can you explain how

1:37:02contracts are entered into in the city

1:37:05of Malden? And do we have any

1:37:08any protections for who can enter into

1:37:11agreements on behalf of the city of

1:37:12Malden?

1:37:15>> So is this a more general question or

1:37:17specific to Flock?

1:37:18>> No, this is a more general question.

1:37:20Only because I what I had learned what

1:37:22we learned through this conversation was

1:37:24that we've been using it since 2023

1:37:27and

1:37:29I just wasn't aware of that. I think

1:37:30others weren't aware of it. And we we

1:37:33are not saying that we have to review

1:37:34every contract that comes before the

1:37:36city, but it got me thinking of cuz

1:37:38people are blaming people like say to

1:37:40us, "City Council, how could you enter

1:37:42into this agreement?" And it got me

1:37:44thinking like I actually don't know how

1:37:46the city of Malden enters into

1:37:48contracts. So, if you could maybe just

1:37:50help educate the the council as well as

1:37:53the public of how do contracts get

1:37:55entered into? And the only reason why

1:37:57I'm mentioning it is like I've heard

1:37:59stories where like if you sign up for

1:38:00Disney Plus, you're waving your right to

1:38:03sue them like for like wrongful death.

1:38:06And so, like there there are can be like

1:38:09impacts of people agreeing to contracts

1:38:12on behalf of the city of Malden and

1:38:14making sure that they go through a

1:38:16proper vetting process whether that is

1:38:18reviewed by the legal department or our

1:38:20procurement department. I'm I don't know

1:38:22what the process is. I know we briefly

1:38:24talked and I think I have an idea now.

1:38:26Um but it was something that you know,

1:38:27I've done this for 11 years and I didn't

1:38:29really know the answer. And so, I think

1:38:30maybe the the public as well as the

1:38:32council might um learn from something

1:38:34from this.

1:38:35>> Can Can you answer in general and

1:38:36specific actually? I'd like to know

1:38:37both.

1:38:38>> Sure. Let Let Let Let Let me start with

1:38:40the specific one. You know, um Flock. Uh

1:38:43so, Flock was procured

1:38:45um in early 2023, I believe.

1:38:49Um

1:38:51the city pays Flock $30,500

1:38:54a year for everything that um

1:38:57the chief and and the detective just

1:38:58explained. Um

1:39:00they were procured in 2023 as part of a

1:39:03collaborative contract Omnia, o m n i a,

1:39:08which the city of Malden is a part of.

1:39:11Um so, there were no um

1:39:14we didn't go out to bid. It wasn't a

1:39:16sole source. It was just procured as

1:39:18part of a um

1:39:19a collaborative contract.

1:39:21Um in terms of

1:39:24a more generalized

1:39:27contract, um

1:39:29every contract the city enters into is

1:39:32signed off by the city solicitor and

1:39:34myself. The city solicitor signs off um

1:39:37saying that the the contract is legal in

1:39:40nature. I sign off certifying funding is

1:39:42available. Um for Flock in particular,

1:39:47nobody is aware of an actual signed

1:39:49contract. Um we receive invoices each

1:39:52year. Those invoices are paid each year.

1:39:54Uh so, my understanding, I'll just speak

1:39:57for myself right now,

1:39:58um we're on a year-to-year contract with

1:40:00Flock. Um it hasn't changed in the three

1:40:03where we'll be entering the fourth year

1:40:05this coming January. Um it's been

1:40:08$30,500

1:40:10a year.

1:40:13>> Great, thank you. And then so um so then

1:40:16so I understand um

1:40:18if if there was a contract, it would get

1:40:20sent to the procurement department and

1:40:22the legal department, and you would

1:40:24review it. One, you're checking if

1:40:26there's money to spend in that line

1:40:28item, and legal, you're you're checking

1:40:30to make sure it's a it's a good contract

1:40:32to sign.

1:40:32>> I'm checking only the legal department

1:40:35only checks um contracts as to form to

1:40:38make sure that the contract is in the

1:40:41right format. We don't go and check

1:40:42every single part of the contract unless

1:40:45we're asked to. For example, the

1:40:47construction contracts are pages and

1:40:49pages, so legal does not go and check

1:40:51all of that. We just check to see if

1:40:54it's as to form, if it's a uh uh

1:40:56uh

1:40:57in in the correct format for a contract.

1:40:59>> Thank you. So, this isn't this is no

1:41:01longer really related to Flock, but just

1:41:03as as a council, we might want to come

1:41:05up with like a policy around what type

1:41:09of vetting contracts get. Obviously,

1:41:12there we have a 20-year trash contract

1:41:15versus like a one-year uh you know,

1:41:17software contract is different. So, I

1:41:19think we need a as a just a as a council

1:41:21as a city, how do we make sure that

1:41:23contracts are getting proper vetting,

1:41:25and that the city of Malden is not being

1:41:27um contracted to something that we are

1:41:29not aware of? Um and this is not, like I

1:41:31said, specific to Flock. It just came to

1:41:33my attention. I said, you know,

1:41:34actually, this is something I don't

1:41:36know, and when I don't know, I like to

1:41:37ask the questions. So, thank you so much

1:41:39for helping edify myself, the council,

1:41:42and the public. Thanks.

1:41:43>> Thank you, Councilor O'Malley. Um can I

1:41:45ask a follow question? I apologize. I'm

1:41:47not familiar with I

1:41:48>> [snorts]

1:41:48>> I guess I have to put your light on.

1:41:50You're not Councilor Simonelli, but I'll

1:41:53This is really throwing me for a loop

1:41:54tonight. Um

1:41:55I'm not familiar with Omnia. Is that

1:41:58administered under Combuyes, or is it a

1:42:00software reseller?

1:42:01>> No, it's a

1:42:03not through through Combuyes. It's

1:42:05similar to Source Well is another one.

1:42:08Omnia was the one that Flock was a part

1:42:10of back then.

1:42:12>> Okay. So, but it's standard to not

1:42:14necessarily have a contract for software

1:42:17agreement in general that the city

1:42:20enters. Is that fairly accurate? Like we

1:42:22would if we were using something like

1:42:25CivicPlus for the website, for example,

1:42:26we don't necessarily have a contract

1:42:28with them.

1:42:29>> No, normally for something like that,

1:42:30for something smaller,

1:42:32even something like like Flock,

1:42:35$30,500

1:42:37a year, normally it's a signed quotation

1:42:40and executed purchase order. The

1:42:41purchase order acts as the binding

1:42:43contract for something like that.

1:42:45>> And that would not also be something

1:42:47that we would typically see as the

1:42:49council.

1:42:50>> Correct.

1:42:51>> Okay. I think to Councilor O'Malley's

1:42:53point though, and to what we often hear

1:42:55from the community, I think there is

1:42:56this assumption or expectation that the

1:42:59council has some daylight into it or can

1:43:02at least be aware of things. So, I think

1:43:04if there's a way that we can get updated

1:43:05on things or at least have a way of

1:43:07finding out um

1:43:09you know, that's probably a good

1:43:11thing to just think about um moving

1:43:13forward. And I it brings me to sort of

1:43:15what I wanted to kind of close with,

1:43:17which is just, you know, if folks have

1:43:18questions, whether it's the council or

1:43:21the public, um I think we want to make

1:43:23ourselves available, whether it's

1:43:25yourselves or the councilors up here, or

1:43:27the members of the PCAC. I think that

1:43:30what I what I feel like I'm really

1:43:32hearing is that folks want to be able to

1:43:34be in conversation about this and if

1:43:36things change or if we you know, we hear

1:43:38additional questions. We just want to

1:43:40have a forum that folks can do that. Um,

1:43:43I think that there's been uh,

1:43:45uncertainty about how to get questions

1:43:47answered on this issue and you know, we

1:43:50want to make sure that there's

1:43:51transparency and availability and I

1:43:52think that we all share that goal. So,

1:43:55um, that's I think we achieved that

1:43:57tonight. I definitely think this was

1:43:59illuminating. I got a lot of questions

1:44:00answered myself and I hope that folks

1:44:03watching felt that way as well. Um, but

1:44:05I want to have a clear path forward if

1:44:07there's things that arose that we go

1:44:08home and think about or if folks watch

1:44:10it and you know, they're watching the

1:44:11recording later and they don't know

1:44:13where to bring their questions that we

1:44:14have a clear place to direct them. Um,

1:44:17so I will say that you know, my inbox is

1:44:19certainly open and I hope that we can

1:44:22direct folks to our colleagues and to

1:44:25both of you and if there's you know,

1:44:26anything else that you think of in terms

1:44:28of future meetings that we want to have,

1:44:30maybe our public safety committee or if

1:44:32we want to have a special meeting about

1:44:34this again, that's something I'd

1:44:35certainly be open to. Really whatever we

1:44:37think is the right thing to do just to

1:44:38be able to be open and available for

1:44:40community questions. I think it helps on

1:44:43issues, you know, I think I heard a lot

1:44:44of people up here say this changes

1:44:46quickly and so the more that we can just

1:44:48be open and communicative about it. I

1:44:50think it helps everyone.

1:44:51>> Absolutely and and I'll just use the

1:44:53example once again that we've changed

1:44:55the policy I I think three times over

1:44:57the past year just to strengthen it. So,

1:44:59this is not about being rooted. It's

1:45:01about working together to achieve a goal

1:45:03of public safety and keep people um,

1:45:07trustworthy of our police department and

1:45:09the protections that that go out there.

1:45:12>> Well, thank you. It's all about

1:45:13communication.

1:45:15Thank you again.

1:45:16>> Thank you.

1:45:17>> Okay.

1:45:19Well, on that note, do we have a motion

1:45:21to adjourn?

1:45:24Who who made it? made the motion.

1:45:25>> Did you make it? Okay. On a motion by

1:45:27Councillor McDonald, seconded by

1:45:28Councillor O'Malley.

1:45:32Uh we will

1:45:33at Hang on. What time is it? 8:55. All

1:45:36in favor?

1:45:37>> Aye.

1:45:37>> Aye. We are adjourned.

1:45:40>> Good job. Good job.