2026-09-08 - City Council

00:44The council will come to order.

00:47I'll rise and salute the flag.

00:50I pledge allegiance to the flag of the

00:53United States of America and to the

00:55republic for which it stands, one nation

00:59under God, indivisible, with liberty and

01:02justice for all. Please remain standing

01:04for a moment of silence in honor of our

01:06veterans, service members, and those who

01:08have given the ultimate sacrifice.

01:14At this time, I'd like to go to

01:15Councelor Winslow for an additional

01:17moment of silence.

01:19Yeah, I have a I have a couple here. Um

01:21we over the summer we lost um Peggy

01:24Logan, a longtime resident at 6:30 Salem

01:26Street. Um she passed away in late July.

01:29Um you know, she worked actually in

01:30Malden for many years developing

01:32people's pictures before you had cell

01:34phones to do all that stuff. So that's

01:36what she did for a living and then she

01:38uh was part of the 6:30 Salem club and

01:40uh ran their their bingo night in a lot

01:43of fun ways. So um just wanted to give a

01:45moment that was silent for her. And then

01:46um my neighbor um Yogi House um suddenly

01:50passed away on Sunday. Very surprising.

01:52Um so I wanted to send our um

01:54condolences to his Liz's wife and his

01:56two daughters um who are Malden

01:59school students. So just uh take that.

02:02>> Thank you.

02:10>> Thank you, Councelor Winsow. I also

02:12wanted to do an additional moment of

02:14silence for Ward 3 resident Bob

02:16Doolittle who many of you may have met

02:18through the friends of Felsmere Heights

02:20who um passed away after a brief illness

02:22in August. Um with permission from

02:25Lauren McGillicu who's joining us here

02:27this evening in person in the chamber.

02:29Um I'm going to share a few words um

02:31that she shared in the friends of Elmere

02:33Heights newsletter this summer that I

02:34just thought captured Bob very well. I'd

02:36encourage anybody to check that knows

02:38Bob. Um the family shared a beautiful

02:40tribute online as well. Um it was just

02:42an amazing um way that captured Bob's

02:45life a lot about um how he raised his

02:47children and his career and his

02:48spiritual life which was very important

02:50to Bob. So please do go read that as

02:52well. But just a few thoughts from

02:54Lauren.

02:55Um Bob was in many ways the heart of the

02:57friends of Felsmere Heights. His goal

02:59was more than preserving open space or

03:01traffic reduction. He saw our work as

03:03building a new and important bridge of

03:05cooperation between the cities of Malden

03:07and Medford. The name of our

03:09organization came from the consensus

03:11that he pursued with urgent gentleness

03:14connecting the Felsmere neighborhood of

03:15Malden and Medford's Fulton Heights. His

03:18great hope was that by working together

03:20to build a shared space, some of the

03:22rivalry that presents cooperation

03:24between our communities might be

03:25replaced by fruitful cooperation.

03:28Bob was also a man of deep spirituality.

03:31A devout Roman Catholic, he was open to

03:33learning from many religious traditions.

03:35And I love this part because I remember

03:37this so well from our many meetings.

03:39From one of his Hindu spiritual

03:40teachers, he brought to friends of

03:42Felsmere Heights the custom of beginning

03:44meetings with a quotation from any

03:46thought-provoking source and a moment of

03:48silence, allowing us to put aside other

03:50cares and focus on our work and each

03:52other. So in that spirit, a moment of

03:54silence in memory of Bob Dittle.

04:06>> You have one as well.

04:08>> Okay, hang on one second. Councelor

04:10Sika, I'm just sitting up here thinking

04:13uh this Friday is the 25th anniversary

04:15of 911. I think it would be nice if we

04:18did a moment of silence for the victims

04:20of 911. It's such a huge milestone

04:23anniversary this year. So,

04:24>> thank you for that.

04:38Thank you everyone.

04:42>> This time the clerk will now call the

04:43role.

04:47>> Council Clone Hayes

04:49>> here. Council Condan here.

04:51>> Council Crow here.

04:52>> Council Lewong here.

04:54>> Council McDonald here. Council Ali here.

04:56>> Council Sika here.

04:57>> Council Simonelli.

04:59>> Council Taylor here.

05:00>> Council Winsow here.

05:01>> Council President Lahan

05:02>> here.

05:04>> Okay. So, under the provisions of the

05:05open meeting, for those of you in

05:07attendance, please be informed that UMA

05:09Urban Media Arts will be recording this

05:11evening's meeting. So, be aware that

05:13there will be audio and video recordings

05:16of tonight's meeting. Is anyone else

05:18present tonight who is planning to

05:19record in addition to Uma? Could you

05:21please identify yourself at this time?

05:25Okay, seeing none, we'll move on to our

05:26first order of business, which is going

05:29to be public comment. Public comment is

05:32allowed under council rules. Each

05:34speaker is limited to the subject matter

05:36relevant to this evening's agenda, and

05:37commenters must keep their remarks to

05:39two minutes or less. Clerk, do we have

05:41anybody signed up for public comment?

05:43>> We have three people. Okay, let's

05:44proceed with the in-person signups.

05:48>> Lilia,

05:51I don't want to

05:52>> Lilia Hedwette. Apologies if we're

05:54mispronouncing. Please, you can come to

05:55the podium

05:58>> and if you can give your name and

05:59street, you don't have to give your

06:00exact address. You can just give your

06:02street now if you prefer.

06:03>> Okay. Um, my name is Lilia Halouch. I

06:05live in Crest View Drive.

06:07>> Apologies for mispronouncing that. Thank

06:09you.

06:09>> Thank you. Good evening, council

06:12president and members of the city

06:13council. My name is Lilia Hadush and

06:16Lefu Drive. Um, since I came to the US

06:19in 2013, I have been working towards

06:23starting a small business making um,

06:25traditional Algerian cookies. Um, few

06:29years ago, inspired by friends who run

06:31successful home bakeries in neighboring

06:34towns, I contacted the Molden Board of

06:36Health, but I was told that it was not

06:38allowed in Molden. Then I tried the

06:40commercial kitchen route but route but

06:43but faced expensive contract and lost

06:46money before I could even start. By the

06:48way, I work as a paraprofessional in one

06:51of Molden public schools. I love I love

06:53my job, but I need to supplement my

06:55income and cottage food would give me a

06:58realistic way to do that doing something

07:01I already know and love. I have been

07:04tracking the proposal since day one

07:08and allow me to respectfully question

07:11some of the concerns about traffic,

07:13grease, trash, rodents, and the workload

07:16of our health inspectors. Cottage Food

07:19is not a restaurant. Massachusetts

07:21already limits what can be produced and

07:23requires permits, inspection,

07:26sanitation, and proper labeling.

07:28Inspecting a small home kitchen is not

07:30the same as inspecting a restaurant.

07:32These are small operation with a limited

07:34range of food. So I don't believe they

07:36should automatically be seen as a major

07:38burden on our health inspectors. Think

07:41about baking cookies for family and

07:44friends for Christmas. Does that create

07:47restaurant level trash, grease or rodent

07:49problems? We shouldn't treat a home

07:51baker like a restaurant. Molden is an

07:54incredibly diverse city. Algerian

07:56cookies, Brazilian sweet, Haitian baker

07:59goods, Asian pastries. our cultural

08:02diversity can become economic

08:04opportunity. I also worry that calling

08:07this a pilot program may discourage

08:09people from starting. Why invest time

08:12and money if you are unsure whether you

08:14will still be allowed to operate later?

08:17Entrepreneurship needs some certainty to

08:19grow. I certainly thanks the counselors

08:22who sponsored and supported this

08:23proposal and I think it advance those

08:25who will consider joining them. My hope

08:28is that Mon will approve cottage food

08:30without unnecessary additional

08:32restrictions. Massachusetts already

08:34provides rules to protect.

08:36>> You've reached your twominut limit.

08:38Thank you so much.

08:43>> Katie Dylan.

08:43>> Next we have Katie Dylan.

08:48>> Name and street, please.

08:49>> Yes.

08:50>> Good evening. Um Katie Dylan. I'm on

08:53Mount Vernon Street. Um, I'm here

08:56tonight to voice my support for item

08:58number 335-26 on updating our

09:02inclusionary zoning. Um, there's a der

09:04of housing in our city and it's driving

09:06up costs. There's also a der of

09:09affordable housing here. Our current

09:11zoning combined with economic factors

09:13outside of our control is making it very

09:15difficult to build the new market rate

09:17and affordable housing we need. I don't

09:19need to tell you all this, but I'm going

09:21to. Um, homelessness is pervasive. We

09:24see it in every community, including

09:26ours. Doorways and bike paths and bark

09:28park benches are not bedrooms. But this

09:31is the reality for many of the reality

09:33many of our neighbors are facing. And

09:35many of us are just one illness, layoff,

09:37or accident away from being on the

09:38street ourselves. Our inclusionary

09:41zoning policy, if fixed, can help. Right

09:44now, the requirements are too high and

09:46incentives too low to build the housing

09:48we need. As a result, housing costs go

09:50up. We need to rebalance our policy so

09:53that we actually get the benefit of

09:54affordable housing built by the market

09:57so the most amount of people possible

09:59are able to have access to safe and

10:00secure housing. Thanks.

10:03>> Thank you.

10:06>> Next we have our police chief Mark Gam.

10:19Is that okay? Are you asking permission

10:21to exceed the two-minute time limit?

10:23>> I am.

10:23>> Um, is there any objection to allowing

10:25the chief to exceed the limit?

10:26[clears throat]

10:27Okay, seeing none, you can proceed.

10:28Thank you for letting us know.

10:30>> Great. Mark Gat from 800 Eastern A. Very

10:33nice to see you all. Good evening,

10:35council president, members of the

10:37council. Comment on paper 369-26

10:41relative to M's use of flock safety and

10:44automatic license plate reader system. I

10:47understand the concerns that have been

10:49raised about privacy, civil liberties,

10:51access to information, and the

10:53possibility of misuse. I believe those

10:56are legitimate questions, and frankly, I

10:58believe every police department should

11:00be asking those questions before putting

11:01this tech of technology into use. And I

11:05say that based on personal experience.

11:07>> Chief, can you move the the microphone

11:08up maybe up on top of the Yeah, it's

11:11just we don't think the um camera's the

11:13audio is catching you.

11:14>> How's that?

11:14>> That's perfect. Thank you.

11:15>> Testing good. Yeah, that's better. Thank

11:17you so much.

11:18>> Okay,

11:19>> thank you.

11:20>> So, I say that based on personal

11:22experience. Back around 2013, Malden had

11:25an automated license plate reader

11:27system, and I was involved in

11:28administrating that system. At that

11:31time, questions began to surface about

11:33privacy, security, access to

11:35information,

11:37and how the technology could potentially

11:39be used. The vendor we were working with

11:41could not adequately answer many of

11:43those questions, and MA made a decision.

11:46We discontinued it, discontinued the

11:49system. So when Flock came to Mullen in

11:512023, I did not approach it as someone

11:54who automatically believed this was

11:56great technology and we simply could

11:58turn it on. I approached it with the

12:00experience of 2013. I had questions. I

12:03had concerns. I asked those questions

12:05about privacy, security, access,

12:07retention, accountability, and the

12:10potential for misuse. Those questions

12:12were answered to our satisfaction and

12:15more than ultimately implemented flock.

12:18I'm also aware of concerns that have

12:20been raised about emerging technologies

12:22and the potential use of artificial

12:24intelligence to compile extensive

12:26information about individuals. I want to

12:29be clear this is not the direction of

12:31the mall and police department nor it is

12:33something we are seeking to implement.

12:36With the staffing challenges facing this

12:38department, my prior priority is putting

12:40police officers on the street, not

12:42replacing officers with additional

12:44technology.

12:46Our license plate reader system is a

12:48good example of technology that provides

12:50strong return on investment. It allows

12:53investigators to quickly develop leads,

12:56saves significant investigative time,

12:58and is assisted in solving serious

13:00crimes. We will continue to support

13:02technology when it provides a clear and

13:04demonstrable public safety benefit while

13:07maintaining appropriate safeguards,

13:09oversight, and accountability.

13:12But just as importantly, we didn't

13:14simply just purchase technology. We

13:16built restrictions around it.

13:19There was a discussion about allowing

13:21patrol officers broader access so they

13:23could conduct their own searches in the

13:25cruiser. From an oper operational

13:28standpoint, I understood the convenience

13:30of that approach. But I remind I remain

13:33stayed fa steadfast that we needed

13:35tighter controls. And it wasn't because

13:37I don't trust our police officers. It

13:39was because the privacy risk justified

13:41fa sacrificing some convenience for

13:44stronger accountability.

13:46I didn't want to wait for Miss Con to

13:48happen before creating controls. So we

13:51created the controls before and because

13:54we anticipated some way and sometime

13:56they might be necessary.

13:59So let me put our access restrictions in

14:01very simple terms. The general patrol

14:04officer you see driving a cruise on the

14:06street does not have the ability to

14:08search a license plate and flock. Those

14:12officers can receive alerts.

14:14Those involve specific public safety

14:17situations identified in our police

14:19policies. Things such as stolen

14:21vehicles, wanted persons, missing or

14:24endangered persons, amber alerts, and

14:26other high-risisk circumstances. Those

14:28are alerts that can only be received

14:30from an officer in the cruiser if he se

14:33chooses to receive them. But if his

14:36officer needs to conduct an actual

14:38search of the historic database, the

14:41officer notifies the street sergeant or

14:43the lieutenant who was in charge of the

14:44shift. And then that supervisor logs

14:47into the system using authorized

14:49credentials, conducts the search,

14:52documents the specific law enforcement

14:54required reasons for that search with

14:57many drop- down menus and reasons. Our

15:00detectives can also conduct searches for

15:02legitimate investigative purposes under

15:04supervisory oversight. And that was

15:07intentional. That was intentional. We're

15:09not using Flock as a surveillance tool.

15:12We're using it as an investigative tool.

15:15We aren't using the system just to

15:17monitor people simply because we're

15:19interested in where they've been.

15:21We use it when there's a legitimate law

15:23enforcement or investigative need. We

15:26also have an auditing process. Searches

15:29are logged. The system administrator

15:30conducts audits under the direction of

15:32the captain responsible for the

15:33detective division. This ensures that

15:36searches are being conducted

15:38appropriately and that our standards are

15:40being followed. We've also placed

15:43restrictions on information sharing.

15:47Malden does not provide any federal

15:49agencies with access to our flock

15:51system. There is no backdoor access for

15:55a federal agency to access access our

15:57records. Our sharing is limited to local

16:00law enforcement municipal agencies

16:02within Massachusetts, consistent with

16:04our established policy. We do not

16:06provide this access to federal agencies

16:08nor to the Massachusetts State Police.

16:11Again, these are deliberate

16:12restrictions. We've also taken steps to

16:15limit how long info is retained. Flock

16:19previously allowed a longer retention

16:21period. Malden chose to adopt the most

16:24restrictive 7-day retention period and

16:29we incorporated that change into our

16:31department policy. That was a mold

16:33decision.

16:34We recognize there is a trade-off. If a

16:36crime isn't reported or recognized until

16:39after 7 days, that historical

16:40information may no longer be available

16:42to investigators.

16:44But we believe seven days provides a

16:47reasonable balance between legitimate

16:49investigative needs and the public's

16:51privacy interests. We're not interested

16:54in retaining information simply because

16:56we can. We had those safeguards in place

16:59from the beginning of our flock program

17:01in 2023 from day one.

17:06Ultimately, I believe Ming can protect

17:09both public safety and the individual

17:11privacy. Flock doesn't replace

17:12traditional police work. It doesn't

17:14replace detectives, patrol officers,

17:17witnesses, evidence, or good

17:18investigative work. It's another

17:21investigative tool. And we have this

17:24seen this happen here in Malden. There

17:26are dozens and dozens of success stories

17:27involving flock. From hit-and- run

17:29investigations, property crimes to

17:32serious violent offenses. Here's a small

17:34sample of a few. In a Kennedy Drive

17:38area, a random homicide. random. An

17:41elderly victim was brutally stabbed more

17:43than 30 times inside his apartment. The

17:45suspect fled and had a several day head

17:47start before detectives began their

17:49investigation. License plate reader

17:51technology provided investigations with

17:53key important evidence from within that

17:56vehicle that assisted in developing the

17:58case. Just recently in the Apple Street

18:01area, we had a missed endangered elderly

18:03male. Flock identified that vehicle

18:06driving through Lynn and was

18:07subsequently identified in Marblehead

18:09where he was located safely in a

18:12shooting homicide in Overlook Ridge

18:14area. License plate reader technology

18:17greatly assisted investigators in

18:19providing information and investigating

18:21leads um and vehicles in that case.

18:26Another case involved a violent domestic

18:27assault with serious injuries with a

18:29couple were on a first date. Very

18:31limited information. Flock technology

18:34assisted investigators in identifying

18:36the suspect. That suspect subsequently

18:38fled the country.

18:40The department investigated a series of

18:42incidents involving a male who exposed

18:44himself and committed lewd and

18:46lascivious acts from his vehicle towards

18:49young women walking their dogs in Maldon

18:51Square. This was ongoing.

18:54Detectives conducted multiple

18:56surveillance operations in an effort to

18:58identify and apprehend this guy.

19:00Traditional surveillance efforts were

19:02unsuccessful, but with the assistance of

19:04flock license plate reader technology,

19:06investigators were able to develop a

19:08lead that identified and located the

19:10suspect.

19:13Also, in conjunction with that, there

19:16was a separate arrest in a naming a

19:18neighboring uh community where Flock was

19:20able to combine the two together where

19:22he's alleged of committing the same

19:24heinous crime on a college campus. That

19:27was the gentleman that was in Malden

19:28Square.

19:30This case is another example of how

19:31license plate reader technology can

19:33complement traditional police work by

19:35providing investigative leads when other

19:37methods including repeated surveillance

19:39have not been successful. These are just

19:41a few examples. There are many other

19:43success stories involving flock from hit

19:45and runs in property crimes, violent

19:47offenses, homicides.

19:49When a stolen vehicle is involved, we're

19:52trying to locate a wanted or missing

19:54person or investigators are following

19:56legitimate leads in a criminal

19:57investigation. This technology can

19:59provide information that otherwise may

20:02never have been available to us. But the

20:04power of the technology has to be

20:06balanced by responsible governance.

20:10Limited access, documented searches,

20:13supervisory oversight, auditing, limited

20:17sharing, limited retention, and

20:19accountability when the rules are

20:21violated. Those aren't just words in a

20:23policy. Those are what we put into

20:26practice in the city of Maldon.

20:28As chief, I believe it's my

20:29responsibility to make sure that we

20:31continue to use the technology

20:33carefully, responsibly, and

20:34transparently. And again, we are not

20:37using Flock is a surveillance tool.

20:39We're using it as an investigative tool.

20:43I understand the council has to weigh

20:45the value of this technology in

20:46protecting our community against

20:47legitimate concerns about privacy and

20:49civil liberties. I believe the

20:52safeguards we put in place allow us to

20:54use these cameras as an effective

20:56investigative tool while representing

20:58the privacy and civil liberty concerns

21:00of the people we serve. I thank you for

21:02your time.

21:03>> Thank you.

21:08>> You have a a question. Sorry, one

21:10second.

21:12>> Question.

21:12>> Uh we haven't finished the um

21:15>> Okay. See if you're going to be here

21:16when this comes up because I did have

21:18questions.

21:19>> I may be. Okay.

21:20>> It may be a while.

21:22>> Okay.

21:23>> We Yeah, we can find a way to make sure

21:26that we can have the chief back if

21:27there's a continued conversation and

21:29it's not possible for you to stay.

21:32>> Okay. So, can we continue with the

21:36public comment?

21:37>> Okay.

21:37>> Okay.

21:38>> Okay.

21:38>> So, we had a number of public comments

21:41come in via email. Um the first one is

21:46from Friends of Felmia Heights regarding

21:49the appointment of the parks and

21:50recreation commission which is on the

21:52agenda a little later on. Friends of

21:53Felmia Heights is pleased to see

21:54appointments to the recreated Malden

21:57Parks and Recreation Commission in the

21:59September 8th, 2026 agenda. These

22:02appointments bring the city into

22:03compliance with various Commonwealth

22:04statutes and regulations and give more

22:06Maldonians a voice in the oversight of

22:08our recreational and open spaces. With

22:11those goals in mind, we have a question.

22:13MGL chapter 45 section 2

22:17says commissioners shall serve without

22:18compensation. The proposed appointees to

22:21this fivep person volunteer commission

22:22include two city employees who

22:24effectively would be directly or

22:26indirectly compensated for serving on

22:28the commission. Would it not be more

22:30useful and inclusive and in clear

22:32compliance with the law to have city

22:34employees serve as exeicio non- voting

22:37members and have more voting members

22:39from the wider community. Also, we note

22:41two possible changes to the appointments

22:43that you may wish to make now or later

22:46through regulations. One, under the

22:48terms of the Community Preservation Act,

22:50one member of the Parks and Recreation

22:52Commission must be appointed to the

22:53Community Preservation Commission. And

22:55two, the appointments should be

22:56staggered so that the entire commission

22:59does not have to be reappointed every

23:00three years. To address this question

23:03and these issues, we suggest that the

23:04parks and recreation appointments be

23:06referred to the appropriate committees.

23:08Sincerely, Stephen Kleti, president.

23:10Lauren McGillicuy, clerk, friends of

23:12Felmia Heights. Felsmere Heights.

23:16We have two papers, three papers

23:18regarding

23:21two papers regarding country uh the

23:25sorry. Thank you.

23:27>> Not at all country kitchens. Good

23:29morning. My name is Robin Diorio of

23:31Salem Street. I am a Malden resident of

23:3420 years and the owner of Robin's Rising

23:35Dough, a very small homebased sourdough

23:38bakery. I'm here in support of allowing

23:40residential kitchens and cottage food

23:42operations in Malden. I started Robin's

23:44Rising Dough because I love baking and

23:46wanted to build a small business within

23:47my own community. I make products such

23:50as sourdough bread, English muffins, and

23:52cinnamon rolls. And my goal has always

23:54been to grow responsibly and legally.

23:57Unfortunately, I learned that Malvin's

23:58current zoning does not allow for me to

24:00obtain the approval needed to operate as

24:03a cottage food business. That means

24:06opportunities that could help a very

24:07small business grow, such as

24:09participating in farmers markets,

24:11community events, and offering

24:12pre-arranged pickups are currently out

24:14of reach. I absolutely believe home food

24:17businesses should follow appropriate

24:19food safety requirements and board of

24:21health regulations. I am not asking to

24:24avoid those requirements. I am asking

24:26for the opportunity to comply with them.

24:29Allowing cottage food operations would

24:31give Malden residents like me a legal

24:33and responsible way to turn something

24:35we're passionate about into a small

24:37local business, contribute to our

24:39community, and potentially grow into

24:41something larger over time. I hope

24:43you'll support this change and give

24:44small homebased businesses like mine the

24:46opportunity. Thank you for your time.

24:51Hi everyone. Sorry I can't be there

24:53tonight. I am off baking in another

24:54city. My name is Marlon Gawa and I'm

24:56asking for the opportunity to continue

24:58growing something very special to me. My

25:00homebased bakery or cottage bakery. I

25:03started this business in May. It may be

25:05small right now, but to me it represents

25:08something so much bigger. My business

25:10focuses on homemade baked goods. Goods

25:12most of you have already tried. I take

25:15care from the way I package the quality

25:17ingredients I use to bring smiles to

25:20people's faces. I also understand my

25:22home is part of the neighborhood. I

25:24understand you must look at more than

25:26just my dreams. You must think about the

25:28people who live around me. Traffic,

25:30noise, delivery, and safety while

25:32maintaining the character of the

25:33neighborhood.

25:35I want you to know I care about all of

25:37that, too. I don't want people at my

25:39house as I provide delivery only

25:41service. I am not asking to open a

25:44full-blown commercial bakery. I am

25:46asking for an opportunity to operate a

25:48small cottage bakery that is carefully

25:50controlled and ha has already been given

25:53the thumbs up by my neighbors. I am

25:56already licensed in the proper food

25:57safety, health and local requirements to

25:59the city of Melrose. I have a hawkers

26:02and pedalers license. I want to do this

26:04the correct way but have and have the

26:07proper approvals, follow the rules, and

26:09be accountable for how my business

26:10operates. But I want to do this in

26:12Malden. This whole letter is about

26:14asking for a chance. If you have any

26:16questions, please feel free to reach

26:18out. Marlene Galla, 40 Webster Street.

26:24We had a number of papers came in that

26:26came in. Okay.

26:27>> I think maybe six that had flock camera

26:30and inclusionary zoning all in the same

26:32email.

26:32>> Okay.

26:33>> Um, this is from Caitlyn Karen, longtime

26:36Malden resident from Home Street. Very

26:39proud of all the things our community

26:40does to help each other thrive. I am

26:42writing in connection to tonight's

26:43docket items regarding inclusionary

26:45zoning and flock cameras. Paper 369-26.

26:49I am in support of a full ban on flock

26:51cameras and similar cameras from other

26:52brands. They are an invasion of privacy

26:54and we cannot trust a private company to

26:56delete stored data when they say they

26:58will. There is far too much potential

27:00for abuse. Paper 335-26. I am strongly

27:03in support of changes to the zoning

27:05code. As a volunteer with the Malden

27:07Warming Center, I have seen firsthand

27:09the effects of our current housing

27:10crisis. More housing is the only way to

27:12relieve this. And the current zoning

27:14code does not follow does not allow for

27:17sufficient construction to address the

27:18need. As a commuter city with a strong

27:21walk score and robust public transit,

27:23parking minimums are an unnecessary

27:25hurdle to affordable housing. I

27:28appreciate the hard work that has been

27:29done already on this front and hope this

27:31review will continue to move Malden in

27:33the right direction.

27:39Um, from Charles McNotton, Kennedy

27:42Drive. First, I am in support of paper

27:44369 and the review of Malden use of flaw

27:46cameras. Floor cameras should not be

27:48used in the tracking of Malden public.

27:50Those cameras have been reported to be

27:52misused by law enforcement nationally to

27:55track and harass individuals as well as

27:56by ICE to target minorities. They have

27:58no place in our community. Secondly, I

28:00am in support of paper 335 and the

28:02inclusionary zoning update. There is a

28:04huge lack of housing in the Boston area,

28:07so encouragement to build more housing

28:09is a good thing. I also hope this passes

28:11so that parking minimums are cut down.

28:13We should be striving to make our

28:15community more walkable and accessible

28:17to other modes of transportation. Adding

28:19density and not taking up space with

28:21parking is a great step in that

28:23direction.

28:27Um Shayen title Bowers Avenue. I am

28:30writing in support of two agenda items

28:31and will keep my comments brief. First,

28:33I support the resolution 369-26 to

28:36review the flock program in Malden. More

28:38than 25 municipalities in Massachusetts

28:40have rejected AI powered mass

28:42surveillance according to the state ACLU

28:45and many of them had far fewer cameras

28:47than Malden. Thank you for proposing a

28:49review to allow Malden officials and

28:51residents to have an informed discussion

28:52about the impacts of these cameras and

28:55potential paths forward. Second, I

28:57support the proposed amendments to

28:58inclusionary zoning in 335-26,

29:02especially the changes to the parking

29:03requirements and appreciate the

29:05consideration of affordable housing as a

29:07top priority.

29:11Um, Nurse Chow, Earl Street, I'd like to

29:15express my support for both resolutions.

29:18Regarding the changes to the current

29:19inclusionary zoning, it's apparent a

29:21great deal of effort has gone into the

29:22proposal by OSPCD staff and their

29:25recommendation seem reasonable. This

29:27unlocks desperately needed housing and

29:29allows people who have called Malden

29:30home their entire lives to continue

29:33doing so without worrying about being

29:35forced out of the city where they grew

29:36up. Regarding the review of flock

29:39cameras, a thorough review is a must

29:41given today's reliance on AI and the

29:43mistakes such technology makes with

29:45little human oversight. There are

29:48numerous credible reports published

29:49about the misuse of flock cameras for

29:51illegal personal use as well as many

29:54cases of mistaken identity where

29:56innocent people are wrongly identified

29:57as criminals. Any ordinance should not

30:00call out flock specifically but the

30:02technology used which is ALPR for mass

30:06surveillance.

30:10um from Peter Piaza Manley Terrace

30:16on inclusionary zoning. I'm writing to

30:18express my support for moving forward in

30:20a way that allows us to develop

30:21affordable housing in Malden. In

30:23particular, I support adjusting the

30:25affordable unit percentage from 15% to

30:27something more achievable like 10%.

30:30Though I support affordable housing, it

30:31feels like the 15% requirement is

30:34currently a barrier to development. I

30:36also support reducing the parking

30:38minimums and adding density bonuses.

30:40Malden schools are universally praised

30:42for their diversity and I see affordable

30:44housing as essential in helping Malden

30:46hold on to racial and socioeconomic

30:48diversity that makes our schools such

30:50wonderful and unique places to learn.

30:52Meanwhile, I support the council

30:54petition for reviewing existing flock

30:56contracts. Ultimately, I am against the

30:58use of flock cameras in Malden. I want

31:01our immigr im immigrant families to feel

31:03comfortable sending their children to

31:05school without fear of government

31:07surveillance. Flock is also rife with

31:10misuse and data privacy concerns that

31:12affect all Maldonians. For now, at the

31:15least, I support the effort to expand

31:17transparency and community dialogue

31:18about current contracts with flock.

31:21Thank you for your consideration on

31:22these important issues. Um, and I have

31:26another one that says the same exact

31:28thing as that one did. Um, anything that

31:31doesn't get read specifically is

31:33attached to all of the papers already. I

31:35did that earlier today.

31:36>> Oh, great. Thank you.

31:37>> Um, so

31:40[clears throat] I hold on.

31:42>> And just for anybody watching, the way

31:44to find those is to click on the agenda

31:46item. Correct?

31:47>> Yes.

31:48>> Okay.

31:50>> So, the next one is we have 12

31:52>> Okay. papers that speaks specifically to

31:56the inclusionary zoning paper. They're

31:58all in agreement and say all virtually

32:00the same thing.

32:01>> Okay. Do you want to read one or two

32:03that's representative of the batch

32:04without objection?

32:07>> Seeing none. Yes. Councelor I'm sorry.

32:09Hang on one second. Councelor McDonald.

32:12>> I think that would be fine. Could you

32:13also just read the names of those who

32:14had submitted those comments?

32:16>> Yes. Thank you.

32:19>> Yep. Councelor Simmonelli.

32:20>> Thank you. Listen, I you know, I don't

32:22know, but um I'm just asking you, is

32:24there any way that we can like

32:26take these things up right now? I mean,

32:28I know that under public comment, we're

32:30not supposed to respond to certain

32:31things, but I don't know if there's

32:33anything in our rules that will allow us

32:35to actually it's a big item and uh

32:38people are concerned about it. So, I I

32:40don't know if you want to send it to

32:41committee, what do you want to do, but I

32:43I think these things flock camera

32:44including

32:45>> So, I can speak to what what I'd like to

32:47do after this. I do want to make sure we

32:48get back to the public comments. I

32:50appreciate that. I think what I'd like

32:51to do after we conclude reading a couple

32:54of representative letters that we'll

32:56batch together and to councelor

32:57McDonald's point we will list the names

32:59of those who submitted them out [snorts]

33:00of respect for those who took the time.

33:02>> That's fine. I'd like to but after that

33:04what I'd like to do is just quickly do

33:06our consent agenda and our appointments

33:08because I think those are essentially

33:09also batch votes and then get to our

33:12guest our guests from OSPCD who are here

33:16who will speak to the zoning papers and

33:18then at that time I think we should take

33:20up the zoning papers. Well, I

33:22>> and and we really can't be discussing

33:24public comment. So, if that sounds okay.

33:25>> No, I know. I know. I was just asking if

33:27there's any way that I mean, everybody's

33:29here tonight to have them come back and

33:30I know this is a big issue and something

33:32that we need to talk about and you know,

33:34it's it's something that's dear to me in

33:36my neighborhood right now. So, you know,

33:38a lot of people are concerned about it.

33:39So,

33:40>> I understand. I think respectfully

33:42everything on our agenda is a big issue

33:43tonight. So, we could either take up

33:45flock first or we could take up the

33:46zoning papers first.

33:47>> I don't I don't care what we take up as

33:48long as we take them.

33:49>> Okay. We will. Thank you.

33:52So, [snorts] um, Brian Vermes entered a

33:54very nice report. It's multiple pages

33:57long. I, um,

33:59>> Calvin Pomerance of Summer Street.

34:04Sorry, this one's so small.

34:08Ty Lamb, Wood 8, Oliver Street.

34:13Matt Tong, Desmond Road.

34:17Chris Burke, G Avenue.

34:20Samantha Leblanc, 30 Daniel Street.

34:24Amosworth, 131 Mount Vernon Street.

34:30Sierra Williams of Alpine Street.

34:35Caroline Godard, Forest Street.

34:39Chris Lang of Tremont Street.

34:44Ally Orlando of Earl Street.

34:49Lisa Sun of Pearl Street. Shawn Bonu

34:53Perkins Avenue.

34:56Bringing Garity Perkins Avenue.

35:01Ally Durac of Floral Avenue

35:05and um actually I will read hers in

35:08representative of a lot of the other

35:10ones.

35:12My name is Ally Durac, a proud resident

35:14of Malden and the president of Malden

35:16Safe Streets. I'm writing you today so I

35:18can advocate for my support of passing

35:20the proposed amendments to Maldin's

35:22inclusionary zoning ordinance. Preparing

35:24myself to make this public comment, I

35:26found myself reviewing a lot of

35:27material. I really appreciate the

35:29thoughtfulness and care our senior

35:31planner Elena has taken for our

35:33community to understand her professional

35:35opinion in RKG Associates findings of

35:38our existing inclusionary zoning

35:40ordinance. At the end of the day, this

35:43was really about economics, affordable

35:45housing and the ability to build housing

35:47in a capitalistic society. I wish

35:49everyone was given the right to have

35:51safe housing in our society, but there

35:53have been barriers that have been put in

35:55place that prevents this from being a

35:56priority. I'm worried that if we decide

35:59we don't agree with Elena and RKG to

36:02update the ordinance, we might have to

36:03wait another five years to amend it. Our

36:05economy is squeezing out Malden

36:07residents who cannot afford housing

36:09here. I do think updating the is the

36:12proposed fashion in the proposed fashion

36:14will provide more affordable housing in

36:15Malden and allow for a more economically

36:18diverse Malden in the future.

36:21On another note, I'd like to say I'm

36:23super excited for Malden's new

36:24transportation commission. Okay. So,

36:26we're gonna pass on that. Um,

36:31>> I would like to express my support for

36:32the housing bill under review. Both

36:34reductions in parking and affordable

36:35housing units have a great effect on

36:36Malden's housing development. Malden's

36:39biggest issue is the cost of housing,

36:41and this problem particularly impacts

36:43lower income and younger populations. We

36:45need our inclusionary zoning to match

36:47the reality of the current environment

36:48or we won't add any new affordable

36:50housing. While many factors relating to

36:52housing productions are out of our

36:54control, this one we can control. We can

36:56see that our neighboring towns have been

36:58more successful in generating affordable

37:00units with different thresholds. Please

37:02support the changes proposed by OSPCD

37:05which are based on a thorough analysis

37:07of our economic feasibility.

37:10>> Do you want me to keep it? I was going

37:11to say this is I think you've done a

37:12great job of encapsulating kind of I

37:14think we are over our usual

37:16>> we're way over time but they are all

37:18attached public viewing distribution.

37:22>> Okay. And have are there any others that

37:23touched on additional agenda items that

37:25we didn't

37:26>> I read those first to make sure we've

37:28not reached anything else. Everything

37:29else is about inclusionary zoning.

37:30>> Okay. Fantastic. I think that is a great

37:33summary. Thank you so much for all the

37:34time spent and I can see your filing

37:36system is so well organized. I'm very

37:38impressed. Thank you for that. Okay. So,

37:40without further ado, let's move on to

37:42our consent agenda next. Um, this

37:45evening's consent agenda consists of

37:47meeting minutes to be approved, six

37:49appointments to be placed on file, and

37:51seven petitions to be referred to the

37:53license committee. Does any counselor

37:56have a desire to remove any of these

37:57items from the consent agenda for the

37:59purpose of further discussion?

38:03Okay, seeing no lights, going once,

38:06going twice.

38:08Do I have a motion to approve the

38:09consent agenda?

38:10>> Motion by councelor Leong, seconded by

38:12councelor Condan. Um, all in favor?

38:16>> I I The agenda is approved. Next order

38:18of business. Okay. Let's take up our

38:22appointments and elections.

38:24>> So, they are um eight. Would you like me

38:27to read them? Yes, please. Thank you.

38:28Okay. So, these are all new

38:29appointments, not reappointments. Paper

38:32361-26

38:34mayoral appointment Julianne King of 29

38:36Ster Sterling Street Malden as a member

38:39of the council on aging said term to

38:41commence upon confirmation by the city

38:43council and expire June 12th 2029

38:47paper 362-26

38:49mayoral appointment Arban Tim Selena

38:528side Avenue as a member of the

38:54commission on climate action and

38:56sustainability said term to commence

38:57upon confirmation by the city council

38:59and expire July 20th 2028. 8 paper

39:02363-26 mayoral appointment Karen Buck of

39:053234 Street as a member of the public

39:07works commission said term to commence

39:09upon confirmation by the city council

39:10and expire on March 1st 2027 paper

39:13364-26 mayoral appointment Heather Barry

39:16of 10 Hudson Terrace as a member of the

39:18parks and recreation commission said

39:20term to commence upon confirmation by

39:22the city council and expire on June 30th

39:242028

39:26paper 3652 uh-26 mayoral appointment Ben

39:30Gaitley of 69 Pier Street, Unit One, as

39:32a member of the parks and recreation

39:33commission. Said term to commence upon

39:36confirmation by the city council and

39:37expire on June 30th, 2029.

39:40Paper 366-26, mayoral appointment,

39:43Jonathan Sullivan of 236 Broadway, Unit

39:454 as a member of the parks and

39:46recreation commission said term to

39:48commence upon confirmation by the city

39:50council and expire on June 30th, 2027.

39:54Paper 367-26

39:56mayoral appointment Julie Turner of 2654

39:59street as a member of the parks and

40:00recreation commission said term to

40:02commence upon confirmation by the city

40:03council and expire on June 30th 2028.

40:07Paper 368-26

40:09mayoral appointment Jane Bentron of 33

40:12Dodge Street as a member of the parks

40:14and recreation commission said term to

40:15commence upon confirmation by the city

40:18council and expire on June 30th 2029.

40:21>> Okay. Thank you to our clerk, councelor

40:23Crow.

40:24>> Thank you. Make a motion to refer to

40:26personal appointments and I think we can

40:28do a review of what some of the public

40:31comment to see what how we how we handle

40:33that. Reject the ones that should not

40:36fit.

40:37>> Sounds good. Thank you.

40:38>> Okay. Second by councelor Leong. We can

40:41do a voice vote. So all in favor?

40:44>> I Okay, that carries. Those are referred

40:46to personnel.

40:48So, let's go back to our guest citizens

40:51achievement and announcements.

40:53>> Director of the Office of Strategic

40:55Planning and Community Development, Alex

40:57Pratt, will appear before the city

40:58council to give an overview of the

41:00recently proposed zoning ordinance

41:02amendments.

41:05>> Thank you. And if you need to move that

41:06microphone back wherever it's

41:08comfortable, please feel free.

41:10>> This works fine.

41:23Good evening everyone. Hi, Alex Pratt,

41:25OSP city director uh for the city of

41:27Malden. Um we're going to talk about a

41:29number of papers tonight. Um I'll start

41:32with giving a refresher on inclusionary

41:33zoning. I think this is the most

41:34complicated paper that we're going to be

41:35talking about tonight uh at least from

41:37our team as it relates to zoning. So,

41:40I'll uh walk you all through it and then

41:42I understand that after the presentation

41:43there will be a chance for the council

41:45to take up the paper.

41:47>> Yeah. And I I think I probably should

41:48have given a little bit more preface

41:49there and I apologize. I'm trying to

41:50keep track of all the things we have on

41:52our very heavy docket tonight. But I did

41:54want to um just let folks know I asked

41:56Alex to come in tonight because of

41:58course this is our first meeting back um

42:00since our summer recess. There was a

42:02planning board public hearing in July

42:04that u members of the ordinance

42:05committee attended, but of course for

42:07everybody that wasn't there. Um it's

42:09been several months before we took up

42:10the since we've taken up these papers.

42:12Um as Director Pratt just said, these

42:15are complex papers, particularly the

42:17inclusionary piece. Um and it's a um

42:20complicated market right now. We want to

42:21make sure that we get this right. So, in

42:23the interest of giving folks a refresher

42:25on where we've been, what happened over

42:27the summer, and to give counselors a

42:29chance to hear what's gone on, and have,

42:31you know, a refresher on this and have a

42:33chance to ask questions, I thought it

42:34would be prudent to have this

42:36presentation. Um, my preference is to

42:39allow Alex and their staff the

42:41opportunity to give the presentation and

42:43then move through the papers one by one

42:45so that we can t take them up and really

42:49focus on one at a time. Of course, if

42:51folks have any objection to that, do let

42:52me know. But I think given how complex

42:54each of them are, I want to make sure

42:56that we have an opportunity to go

42:58through them and focus on each one. So,

43:00that's how I plan to take up the um

43:02order of business tonight. Starting with

43:04inclusionary and without objection,

43:06please feel free to get started. Yes, of

43:08course. Of course. I saw councelor

43:10Cologne Hayes first.

43:12>> Um I think that's a great idea. I just

43:14wanted to clarify if are we taking the

43:17papers up separately, meaning that we

43:18would have to vote on them separately or

43:20just taking them up to explain to them.

43:22>> So, they're docketed separately anyway.

43:24So, we will have to vote them separately

43:25no matter what. Um, because they're

43:27already docketed before us, we can

43:28discuss them throughout the

43:30presentation. They are already docketed

43:32as council business. So, they're not new

43:33to us. Um, again, we sent them for a

43:36hearing, so there's something that's

43:37properly before us. Alex is here talking

43:40through them with us. So, um, my intent

43:43would be if we have questions as we go

43:45along, we can vote them if folks are

43:47ready. And again, the vote is up to what

43:49the pleasure of the council is. So, we

43:51can refer, we can vote on them tonight.

43:53Um, Alex is here to answer your

43:55questions as you think about what we

43:56want to do. Um, councelor Ali,

44:00>> you kind of hit then uh what I was going

44:02to ask. Okay. Um,

44:03>> so for some of them, you know, we might

44:05be able to vote them on the on the floor

44:06tonight, but for some of them that might

44:08have a more robust conversation and we

44:10want some amendment, you know, we are

44:12still we still have time to refer it to

44:13ordinance for discussion.

44:15>> Yes. And I'm hoping Alex can speak to

44:16that, but we do, my understanding is

44:18that the deadline is November 10th.

44:20>> That's correct.

44:20>> Okay.

44:21>> Yeah. Because

44:21>> to take action,

44:22>> considering there's a lot on the docket,

44:24I don't want us to be half asleep making

44:27big zoning decisions.

44:29>> Thank you.

44:29>> Yes. The stakes are pretty high when it

44:31comes to zoning. Okay. So, take it away.

44:33Thank you so much, Alex.

44:34>> Thank you. Uh, and I first want to, uh,

44:36recognize and thank my staff, our deputy

44:38director, Zach Lenel, and our senior

44:40planner, Elena Art, who spent a lot of

44:42time on all these papers, and especially

44:43Elena has been a huge help on the

44:45inclusionary zoning piece. Um, so if you

44:47ask me a tough question, you might see

44:48her coming up to save me.

44:51So, I'll start with just a quick

44:52overview about what inclusionary zoning

44:54is and what it is trying to accomplish.

44:57Um it is essentially a policy that says

44:59that market rate housing projects need

45:01to include a certain percentage of units

45:03to be affordable um at a certain income

45:05and a certain percentage amount that is

45:07set in policy. Um it also provides and

45:09must provide incentives to offset the

45:11cost of the affordability requirements.

45:13It's not just a stick, it is also a

45:15carrot. If the policy is properly

45:18balanced, the community benefits by

45:19getting more affordable housing built

45:22when market rate housing is built. And

45:24it is done without public subsidy, which

45:26means we're not spending city dollars or

45:28some of our state or federal grant money

45:30on um subsidizing those affordable units

45:33that are in market rate housing. It just

45:35the market carries it for us when we

45:37provide the right balance and the right

45:38incentive. If the policy is too extreme

45:41and becomes offbalance, housing becomes

45:43more expensive to build. Fewer units get

45:45built, fewer market rate units get

45:47built, and fewer affordable units get

45:48built. Um and housing costs go up. So

45:52the policies have to be reviewed. uh

45:54periodically over time to make sure that

45:56the right balance is maintained. What

45:58works in one year might not work five

46:00years later. And if you aren't careful

46:02with that balance, it it uh may go in

46:05the wrong direction.

46:08So in 2021, the city council adopted

46:10inclusionary zoning for the first time.

46:12Um so it's been about five years. That

46:15policy was based on um on a dis a

46:18lengthy discussion um and a economic

46:20feasibility analysis that was completed

46:22in 2021. Um and that covers projects

46:25with eight or more affordable house uh

46:27excuse me with eight or more residential

46:29units. So if there if someone's building

46:30a three family home, it's not covered

46:32under inclusionary zoning. Those

46:34projects are too small. Anything under

46:35eight units is too small to make the

46:37finances work. So we're doing um

46:39projects with eight or more units have

46:41to comply with inclusionary zoning. In

46:432021, we set that affordability

46:45threshold at 15%. So 15% of units um

46:49would have to be affordable. And we sent

46:50income thresholds, a threshold for 50%

46:54of the area median income uh for a

46:56rental unit and 80% of the area median

46:58income for a home ownership unit. We

47:01also provided incentives as I said. So

47:03we provided a a parking bonus which said

47:05that for every affordable unit uh you

47:08create one parking space per unit

47:09instead of one parking space per

47:10bedroom. and you create uh you provide a

47:13density bonus as well. So we provide one

47:16additional market rate unit can be built

47:18for every required affordable unit that

47:20they build. Um we also created the

47:22option for what's known as a payment in

47:24loo or an inloo payment. Um which just

47:26allows the a developer to pay the city a

47:29fee that we set in exchange for not

47:31building an affordable unit and

47:33[clears throat] that money goes to the

47:34affordable housing trust fund board

47:35which they can then use to build

47:36affordable housing. I'll talk about that

47:38more in a moment. Um and the 2021 policy

47:42also set compliance through a special

47:44permit. Um following review by OSPCD

47:46staff. So a developer comes in, presents

47:48their proposals, OSPC staff review and

47:50confirm that the project uh will comply

47:53with inclusionary zoning. We write a

47:54memo and send some documentation of that

47:56fact to the planning board. The planning

47:58board holds a special permit hearing on

48:00the inclusionary zoning compliance and

48:02then grants that I compliance. And then

48:05of course the the policy must be

48:07reviewed uh with a financial feasibility

48:09analysis and market study every five

48:11years.

48:15So we just completed that economic

48:17feasibility analysis this spring uh and

48:19we've we found some challenges. Our

48:21current I policy prevents you know

48:24significantly prevents housing from

48:26being built. It makes it a lot harder

48:27for housing to be built. Um that was not

48:30true in 2021 when the policy was passed

48:31but it's certainly true today. Um, one

48:34way to look at this is you can look at

48:35the number of market rate projects that

48:36have been permitted over the last five

48:38years. Um, among them only four

48:40affordable housing units were permitted

48:42in those market rate projects and none

48:44since 2023. Um, and there was one fee

48:47and loop that was paid. So essentially

48:49there were two market rate projects that

48:52triggered inclusionary zoning in this

48:53five-year period. one uh agreed to build

48:57the four units and I believe those are

48:58being built now and the other made a

49:00payment in lie and said I don't want to

49:02build the affordable unit. I'm going to

49:03write a $350,000 check to the affordable

49:06housing trust fund so they can spend

49:07that money on affordable housing. So

49:08that is what has happened. Um and there

49:12has not been much activity on the market

49:13rate side since 2023.

49:16Um the the progress we have seen on

49:19affordable housing has been subsidized

49:21affordable housing nonprofits that are

49:23doing affordable housing. So when you

49:24think about the Salvation Army property,

49:26you think about Overlook Ridge, you

49:28think about 245 Bryant Street, those are

49:30all projects with nonprofit developers

49:32that are seeking millions of dollars of

49:34public subsidy, sometimes from our city

49:36funds, sometimes from state funds um to

49:39help make those projects pencil out.

49:41Those are not the units that we're

49:43talking about when we say four units are

49:44permitted. What we're saying here is if

49:47the goal of inclusionary zoning five

49:49years ago was to cause the market force

49:52the market to build affordable housing,

49:54it's not working very well because

49:56they've only been required to build four

49:58units and then make one $350,000

49:59payment. So our recommendation of course

50:02is to revise inclusionary zoning um to

50:05update it to the times that we live in

50:07today as well as to increase incentives

50:10for projects um with more affordability.

50:12So when you have more affordability

50:13coming in that we're creating uh an

50:15easier path for those projects that are

50:17more that provide more benefit to the

50:18community.

50:21So I'll go through the the list of major

50:23changes um for our 2026 proposal which

50:26is the proposal that we're discussing

50:27tonight and likely uh in committee as

50:30well. Um so this is based on a economic

50:33feasibility analysis that was conducted.

50:35It changes the threshold from 15% of

50:38units to 10% of units. Um the idea here

50:41is that if the 15% threshold is too high

50:43and our study indicates that it is,

50:47we're not actually getting fewer

50:48affordable units potentially than a

50:50lower threshold. Um I think one of the

50:52comments that we we made at the planning

50:53board meeting was 15% of zero units

50:56being built is zero units. So if we can

50:59lower the threshold so that more housing

51:01can be built, you get more affordable

51:03housing to be built. Um, another big

51:05change we made was changing the

51:06affordability threshold from 50% AMI to

51:0860% AMI on the rentals. Um, and this

51:11helps close a gap if for families that

51:14are just above that 50% AMI who are

51:17starting to be able to um potentially

51:20afford housing without a subsidy,

51:22without a voucher. Um, but there's not

51:25really room for it. It also helps um

51:28balance the projects for the for the

51:29market because it is harder to um to

51:32sustain a 50% AMI unit without subsidy

51:35and these market projects again do not

51:37have that subsidy. Um and if they do

51:40happen to seek subsidy if for example it

51:42is a nonprofit developer a 60% AMI

51:45threshold pairs much more closely with

51:47significant federal tax credits. Um so

51:49it just it for a number of reason the

51:51change from 50 to 60 uh made a lot of

51:54sense. Uh we've adjusted the parking

51:56bonus which again is that one parking

51:58space per unit uh to apply to all the

52:02units in a project and we've adjusted

52:05the density bonus to provide an

52:07additional market rate unit that could

52:09be allowed to be built um for every

52:12required affordable unit.

52:15The fee in lie uh the change here. So

52:17this was the the one where the developer

52:18paid $350,000 to the trust instead of uh

52:21building the unit of affordable housing.

52:23We want to keep that as an option um

52:25because sometimes that funding is more

52:27helpful to the trust in building the

52:28unit than the unit itself depending on

52:31um what else is going on, what projects

52:33that money could be put towards and that

52:34type of type of challenge. Um however,

52:37we think that should be up to the

52:38affordable housing trust fund board and

52:39not up to uh the developer. So, this

52:42would essentially require the developer

52:44to build a unit. um if for some reason

52:46they feel that they cannot or it would

52:48be in this community's interest for them

52:50to pay the fee instead, they can ask and

52:52make a request of the affordable housing

52:53trust fund board and then the affordable

52:55housing trust fund board can approve or

52:56deny that request based on their

52:58assessment of whether the money of the

53:00unit would be better in furthering the

53:02city's affordable housing goals.

53:04Um the inclusionary zoning compliance um

53:07has shifted from um being done by the

53:09planning board to being done by OSPCD

53:11staff. Um, what I will say is that when

53:14I say 99% of uh these types of projects

53:18require a special permit anyway. Nothing

53:20about this changes that. This is just

53:21for the inclusionary zoning compliance.

53:23So, the planning board or in some cases

53:25the city council would still have uh

53:27that special permit process in place for

53:30these projects. Um, the only thing that

53:32kind of comes inhouse is the

53:35determination that they are complying

53:36with the inclusionary zoning policy.

53:39Uh we're also seeking to increase

53:41flexibility for 100% affordable projects

53:43which I'll talk about in more detail in

53:45a moment. Uh we've exempted from our

53:47policy uh nursing and convolescent

53:49homes. Um nursing and convolescent homes

53:52operate on very different um budgets and

53:54financial realities than general market

53:56rate housing does. So requiring that

53:57they build an affordable duty restricted

53:59unit in a nursing home didn't make too

54:01much sense. Um, so we're changing that

54:04and we are clarifying the language um

54:06that is currently on the books that says

54:07that um what we want to make clear is

54:09that the inclusionary zoning policy may

54:10be revisited sooner than every five

54:13years. Um if the market changes, you

54:15know, we're having this conversation in

54:17large part because our economy has

54:18shifted and made building harder. If the

54:21economy changes a year or two from now

54:22and suddenly the numbers change in a

54:24significant way, we can come back around

54:26and have another stab at this and make

54:28sure that we catch the upswing so that

54:30if it is if it does become um a better

54:33market for this type of activity that we

54:35can still capture those affordable

54:36units.

54:39So I talked about increasing afford uh

54:41increasing flexibility for projects that

54:43have more affordable units. Um what what

54:46you have here is you have um kind of

54:48what we call a market rate project which

54:50is done by a a typical market rate

54:52developer who is trying to build as many

54:54market rate units as possible and has

54:56our uh requirement that they build

54:58affordable units. So that's on the lefth

55:00hand side. That's what we would call an

55:01inclusionary project. Um and as I

55:03mentioned those are the same bonuses

55:04that I mentioned the density bonus and

55:06the parking reduction are the same as I

55:07mentioned in the previous slide. a mixed

55:09income project, which is when you have

55:13um you have a project where they're

55:16building slightly more affordable than

55:17required, but less than 100%. So, it's

55:19not a 100% affordable project, but it

55:22might have a significant number of

55:23affordable projects. For example,

55:24Overlook is a good example of this.

55:26There are um are some um some pieces of

55:29of the ongoing Overlook project will

55:30include some market um some middle

55:33income and some uh affordable units. And

55:36so making sure that those projects get

55:38those um those benefits. And then our

55:41100% affordable projects um have the

55:43same additional two-unit um density

55:46bonus that the other types of projects

55:47do, but uh it creates an option again by

55:50special permit for those projects to go

55:52up by one story. And it reduces the

55:55parking requirement to uh 75 spaces per

55:58unit. Again, for the 100% affordable

56:00projects only. Um there's also a

56:03location allowance which allows for 100%

56:06affordable projects to be considered

56:08again by special permit in any

56:10residential district or any district

56:11where residence is allowed um by special

56:14permit. What I will note here is that

56:17the additional story and the location

56:20allowance the the intention and one

56:22thing that we want to really clarify in

56:23the language here is that those things

56:25are um you are either or they are

56:27mutually exclusive. cannot

56:30go into a district where um go into res

56:33for example and build three stories

56:35which would be by special permit and

56:37then also seek to build another story

56:39above that. Um that is not the intention

56:41here. So we are um uh clarifying that

56:44language. The other thing I wanted to

56:46note you'll see this uh strike through

56:48on the mixed income project for the park

56:49reduction. Um based on feedback we

56:52received um during the planning board

56:53and uh rules and ordinance committee

56:55meeting and other conversations we've

56:56had um we're proposing changing that

56:59from the 0.75 spaces per unit back to

57:01the one space per unit. So the mixed

57:03income projects are essentially treated

57:05as the inclusionary projects as the

57:06market projects were. So the that really

57:09um concentrates the greatest flexibility

57:12on the 100% affordable projects. Our

57:16next steps of course are tonight's

57:18discussion with the council and then we

57:19would recommend uh referring to rules

57:21and ordinance committee for further

57:23clarification, discussion, potential

57:24amendments um and to address any issues

57:27that come up. And I'm happy council

57:30president to take questions now or um if

57:33you'd like to wait until further

57:34discussion, we can do that too.

57:35>> No, I'm happy to take questions now. I

57:37suspect folks have them. Um I saw

57:40councelor Cologne Hayes first.

57:43Thank you. Thank you very much. Thank

57:45you for that um presentation. I know

57:48we've spoken a number of times. I was at

57:51the um Maltton Planning Board meeting.

57:54So, I don't have too many questions

57:55because I've been really studying this

57:57and digging into it all summer. So, I

57:59just have I want to say something for

58:00people listening out there. Um so, those

58:03of um you know, people understand that

58:05I'm always for affordable housing,

58:08right? Um been one of my priorities for

58:1020 years. Um, and I did voice my um,

58:14concerns at the Maltton uh, planning

58:16board about we fought so hard to get our

58:19inclusionary zoning um, on the books.

58:22This was 10 years ago, actually more

58:24maybe now. And um, so my initial

58:27reaction was whoa like let's not go

58:29backwards. What you know um, I was

58:32really concerned about that you know

58:34this we spoke a lot about it. However,

58:36[laughter]

58:37since then I went and um, made lots of

58:40phone calls. I talk to housing experts

58:42that I trust. Um, Boston Anti-Poverty

58:45Agencies, Housing Family, Chapa, which

58:47is the Citizens Housing and Planning,

58:49um, Association, yourself, um, and my

58:53constituents. And so, based on all of

58:56that, um, I do believe that this is the

58:58right way to go. And I just, um, I want

59:00to say that out loud because there I

59:02people were calling me and we were

59:04working through a lot of this and with a

59:05lot of groups because of everything I

59:07was saying to you. Um I and it's it's

59:11a lot of information here. So I just

59:13want to be clear that I really do

59:14believe this is the is is the right way

59:16to go and I really want to commend your

59:18office. You did a tremendous amount of

59:20work um to put this forward. So thanks

59:22so much.

59:23>> Thank you.

59:24>> Thank you councelor Cologne Hayes. Next

59:26I have councelor Winsow. So, Alex, you

59:29mentioned so basically, you know, over

59:30the five years we've actually had

59:32inclusionary zoning incentives in place.

59:36There's basically been four units

59:38permitted. Sounds like and and then one

59:41that's paying the um the the fee. Do we

59:44know how many just market rate units

59:47have been built out there during that

59:48time period? I mean, is that the

59:50>> We could get those numbers for you. And

59:52what I what I want to clarify is those

59:54are the number of affordable units that

59:55were permitted in market rate projects,

59:58>> right? Yes.

59:58>> By market rate developers. There have

1:00:00been more affordable units that have

1:00:01been permitted by affordable housing

1:00:03developers that have sought or will seek

1:00:06public subsidy. Those are two different

1:00:07paths and I want to just clarify that.

1:00:10So

1:00:10>> for example, there are four four units

1:00:12have been uh four affordable units have

1:00:14been permitted in market rate projects

1:00:16over that time period. We also permitted

1:00:1820 affordable units at 213 Main Street,

1:00:21Salvation Army. Um, but that project has

1:00:23relied on city ARPA funds uh and other

1:00:26uh public subsidy as well. So just

1:00:28overall I mean even market rate housing

1:00:31hasn't been very robust here at all even

1:00:33under our current zoning because if it's

1:00:36those four units I mean that's 15% of

1:00:38the what the market is I guess right so

1:00:40so there hasn't been a lot of units

1:00:42being built over the past five years

1:00:43basically that our market rate that

1:00:46don't have some other financial

1:00:48incentive or whatever

1:00:49>> we have seen a slowdown in the number of

1:00:51housing units built across the region

1:00:52and Malden is no exception

1:00:54>> right right so so this inclusionary

1:00:57zoning

1:00:57you know for in market rate buildings is

1:01:01has not had a big impact right now in

1:01:03terms of that. So the you know we

1:01:05shouldn't freak out about you have a

1:01:08hund thousand units or whatever. It's

1:01:10been very modest. So and and that's you

1:01:13know I was part of the you know we

1:01:15reviewed stuff back in 2021

1:01:18um and helped you develop the zoning and

1:01:21the incentives and that was a very

1:01:22thorough analysis. I think at that point

1:01:24a lot of communities were trying to push

1:01:2620%. And we did 15% to think that was a

1:01:29better incentive for our market. So the

1:01:32fact that even 15% in market it it it

1:01:36did in affect. So we really I don't I

1:01:38don't think reeling back to 10 is going

1:01:40to you know you know you know that's

1:01:42that's helpful and and to these other

1:01:44incentives. It's not like it it you know

1:01:47suddenly we're overwhelmed with housing.

1:01:48So that's one of the things I think we

1:01:50have to think of that you know we took a

1:01:52modest step. it had a modest impact. You

1:01:54know, if we want to be bolder, we have

1:01:55to we have to move ahead here. So,

1:01:57that's one of the things. And then just

1:01:59um on the the sheet where you talk about

1:02:02the parking when it says parking

1:02:04reduction one space per unit. So, that

1:02:07that parking reduction for the

1:02:10inclusionary project or the m mixed

1:02:12income project that reduction is for

1:02:15that particular unit or every unit. So

1:02:17like if you

1:02:19>> So what we have right now in the books

1:02:20is every affordable unit has one parking

1:02:23space. Yeah. Per unit.

1:02:25>> What we are proposing is that every unit

1:02:28in an inclusionary zoning project or a

1:02:30mixed income project becomes one space

1:02:33per unit regardless of whether that

1:02:35particular unit is affordable or not.

1:02:37And that is one of the ways that we can

1:02:38reduce um the cost of the affordability

1:02:41requirement that is so heavy on these

1:02:43projects. And on the affordable

1:02:44projects, let me say again, on the 100%

1:02:47affordable projects,

1:02:49>> that would be reduced to 0 75, which is

1:02:51closer to what you actually see usage

1:02:53for in affordable housing projects.

1:02:55>> So generally, like you know, the whole J

1:02:57development here, most of those were

1:02:58two-bedroom units. And that was built

1:03:00with one sort of space per that. So,

1:03:04this is really kind of following that

1:03:06model of most if the market is going to

1:03:08build two-bedroom units and and this

1:03:12would just have one parking space per

1:03:15apartment kind of thing. And if there's

1:03:16a three-bedroom unit, that would have to

1:03:18have two then basically. That's right.

1:03:19That's so that's sort of how the that

1:03:22ratio would work, right, for across that

1:03:25whole development, right? Yes. Yeah.

1:03:26Okay. Yeah. So I mean I think those are

1:03:28things that you we so we have done some

1:03:30of these things having that lower

1:03:32parking incentive really helped stuff

1:03:35down here and so I think this is just a

1:03:37good example. So I think it these are

1:03:39you know sensible adjustments and that

1:03:41type of thing. So I think it is I'm I'm

1:03:43very supportive of this and it's really

1:03:45up to the the rest of the council

1:03:46whether we would might want to try to

1:03:48move this tonight with adjustments or

1:03:50bring it to rules and ordinance. So just

1:03:52waiting to hear what your my colleagues

1:03:54suggest on this. Thank you. What what I

1:03:56would say on that is we have a few

1:03:57technical changes we want to make that

1:03:59we'd rather make in committee and come

1:04:00back in front of you.

1:04:01>> Okay. Sure. That's fine. Okay. Great.

1:04:03>> Thank you, Councelor Winsow. Uh

1:04:05Councelor McDonald.

1:04:07>> Yeah. Thank you so much, Alex, and the

1:04:08team. I'm super supportive of this. Um

1:04:10really grateful that you have brought

1:04:12this forward to begin with. Um I just

1:04:14had a clarifying question about kind of

1:04:17the precision of some of these

1:04:19estimates. I mean, going from 10 to 15,

1:04:21there's not that's not like a formula,

1:04:24right? That's like or or is it like how

1:04:26precise is that shift like why 10 versus

1:04:3111%.

1:04:33>> So what our consultants did here is they

1:04:37and they've done this in a number of

1:04:39communities. They actually look at

1:04:41development proforms. So the budgets

1:04:42that developers and the banks that fund

1:04:44the developers look to say okay is this

1:04:47going to pencil out? Is there going to

1:04:48be enough of a return? Are you going to

1:04:50be able to operate and maintain the

1:04:52project 15, 20 years from now? When are

1:04:54you going to get into trouble? Are you

1:04:56making appropriate allowances for uh

1:04:58parking, for vacancies, for someone

1:05:01deciding not have to pay their rent for

1:05:02six months for legal and overhead and uh

1:05:06contingency and all of those things.

1:05:07They look at those proformas um and they

1:05:10develop a model based on okay if they're

1:05:11required to make these requirements

1:05:15this changes their return and their risk

1:05:19by this factor and um I was actually

1:05:22looking at the the 2021 proposal that we

1:05:24had in front of you um five years ago

1:05:27which showed that and one of the things

1:05:28that we looked at was we did look at 20%

1:05:30and we said this is not going to work.

1:05:3220% is is is not going to work even in

1:05:35the good times back in 2021. Um but we

1:05:39were able to see well okay the most

1:05:40aggressive we can go is with 15% at 50%

1:05:44AMI but the way that we were able to do

1:05:46that is by putting in some of these

1:05:47bonuses and even then we we knew that

1:05:50that was a somewhat of an aggressive

1:05:52take. I think we were anticipating the

1:05:53market continuing to move in the

1:05:55direction it was and obviously has gone

1:05:56in the other direction. Um, but there

1:05:59there is a level of of sophistication to

1:06:01these models. At the same time, we

1:06:04didn't want to come to you with a 9.65%

1:06:07or a 11.5% requirement. Um, and I'll

1:06:11also say that for most of the projects

1:06:12that we're seeing, which are relatively

1:06:15small in size, that's going to that's

1:06:18not going to actually create a new unit.

1:06:19You'd have to have a pretty big project

1:06:21where that

1:06:22>> Right. That was my other question is

1:06:23just the math of this is like it's not

1:06:25actually going to change for most

1:06:26midsize projects how many units would be

1:06:28built regardless but it changes how the

1:06:31how the how it pencils out in terms of

1:06:33the feasibility. What we are imagining

1:06:35is that there would be a handful of

1:06:37units that would be changed, but this is

1:06:39not going to be a huge a huge shift,

1:06:42>> right?

1:06:42>> Um and it also it creates flexibility to

1:06:45allow us to do more by special permit.

1:06:48Um but that is really just giving us the

1:06:51option whether it's this the planning

1:06:53board in most cases or the city council

1:06:55and the CBD district the ability to

1:06:58consider whether or not they want to add

1:07:00that additional story. Um so those are

1:07:02the types of things that we did. We're

1:07:03not um you know changing the changing

1:07:06the game. What we're trying to do is

1:07:09adapt our strategy to the 2026 economy.

1:07:13>> Yeah. Thank you. So, I I I really

1:07:15appreciate that additional detail

1:07:16because I think it shows not just due

1:07:18diligence, but it says if our goal is to

1:07:20generate affordable housing units, which

1:07:23that may not be everybody's goal, but

1:07:25it's certainly mine, uh, and I think

1:07:27many of my colleagues, and I know that

1:07:29it's yours, then what we have to do is

1:07:31figure out where can that threshold be.

1:07:33And what you're saying is you've

1:07:34actually worked with consultants who've

1:07:35done a pretty rigorous dig into what it

1:07:38can realistically be. Um and I and and

1:07:41can I safely assume that applies to the

1:07:43parking costs and requirements as well?

1:07:45>> Oh yes.

1:07:46>> Okay. So those numbers are not like just

1:07:48best guess like let's take it down a

1:07:50little bit and see how that goes. That's

1:07:51actually based on um all of the factors

1:07:55tariffs and local real estate and labor

1:07:58markets and everything else.

1:08:00>> Um to this is what we really can

1:08:02sustain. So if we're not going to do

1:08:03that then we're not going to sustain

1:08:05projects. The other thing that we uh uh

1:08:08we found is that housing costs grow by

1:08:10the region and rents grow by the

1:08:13municipality. So for example, Malden

1:08:15rents are really expensive for Malden

1:08:17rents historically, but they are cheaper

1:08:19than Somerville and Boston and Cambridge

1:08:20rents. The cost of building the unit in

1:08:22Malden versus Somerville is the same.

1:08:25The difference is the land, but

1:08:27otherwise the, you know, most of the

1:08:28costs are of actually constructing the

1:08:30unit is the same. So we have to keep

1:08:32that in mind as well.

1:08:33>> Okay. Thank you. Um, happy to support

1:08:35referring it to committee.

1:08:36>> Thank you, Councelor McDonald. Councelor

1:08:38Omali,

1:08:40>> thank you. Uh, and thank you for the

1:08:42presentation. Um, I think I definitely

1:08:44want to talk about this more in

1:08:45committee, so I think it's probably to

1:08:47get into the weeds, but I think for like

1:08:49the edification of the public and

1:08:50particularly like housing advocates, I

1:08:52think the history of kind of how we got

1:08:54here is kind of really important. Um, it

1:08:56didn't just happen overnight. Um and you

1:08:59know I think what we have to know is

1:09:01that um after the 2008 crisis there was

1:09:04a effort to build housing in Malden.

1:09:07That's when we developed the residential

1:09:08incentive overlay. That's when we did

1:09:10the Rose Quarry Reclamation District and

1:09:12these gave incentives and density

1:09:14bonuses to building in the downtown and

1:09:17bringing more housing to Malden. Um

1:09:20there was a backlash um by various

1:09:24constituencies around multifamilies

1:09:27which then resulted in a multi-year

1:09:29multifamily lots of multis uh moratorum

1:09:32in the city of Malden which prevented

1:09:34any multifamilies from being built. Um

1:09:37at the same time we increased parking

1:09:40requirements and reduced the height

1:09:42limits of buildings. Um we were fighting

1:09:46with various you know community groups

1:09:48including mass senior action to

1:09:50implement an inclusionary zoning way

1:09:52back then. Um and then COVID happened

1:09:56and we implemented we finally

1:09:57implemented you know affordable housing

1:09:59trust fund and inclusionary zoning and

1:10:02we are now I think you know laying in

1:10:04the bed that we made ourselves and so I

1:10:07I I find it hard to try to pin it on

1:10:09affordable housing as the reason of why

1:10:11we're not able to build um housing now

1:10:14where it's really I think all of those

1:10:16other things and this is just one of the

1:10:19the tools that we tried to use to help

1:10:22combat against that. So, I think that

1:10:24the market has changed. I think what

1:10:25we're all tolerating has changed. Uh,

1:10:27but I do think we have to understand

1:10:28that we created the situation that we're

1:10:30in. And it wasn't inclusionary zoning

1:10:32and affordable housing that got us here.

1:10:34Um, but I I definitely think we need to

1:10:36look at it and adding density bonuses.

1:10:39And if we have to tweak the percentage,

1:10:41um, great. Um, and I also want to say

1:10:44that like I looked at the numbers too

1:10:46and I thought we had built 99 affordable

1:10:50units. Um I understand that some of that

1:10:53might have been subsidized by um

1:10:56>> that's primarily Overlook Ridge.

1:10:57>> Yeah. So and and so and if you take out

1:11:00the the affordable pure affordable units

1:11:04that might have been subsidized by the

1:11:05market rate. Um I think it's around like

1:11:0832. So there has been affordable

1:11:10housing. Of course we could get more. Um

1:11:12definitely looking to have this more

1:11:13in-depth conversation in in committee

1:11:15and I appreciate this great

1:11:16presentation.

1:11:17>> Thank you.

1:11:18>> Thank you councelor Ali. Councelor Crow.

1:11:21>> Thank you, Madam President. So, um,

1:11:23Alex, thank you very much for the

1:11:25presentation. I, um, I definitely am in

1:11:28support and I know we had a conversation

1:11:30about parking. I do know we have to

1:11:32really reook at our parking um,

1:11:34requirements and and make some

1:11:36[clears throat] significant changes. So,

1:11:38but when we had the conversation, I was

1:11:40a little surprised actually at the

1:11:42planning board that the mixed um income

1:11:46projects would have one space per unit.

1:11:50Is it as you said it was just the

1:11:52affordable

1:11:53>> 75 was what was in front of

1:11:54>> Right. Exactly. See, and then we did the

1:11:57one. But if you do like quick rough

1:11:59numbers and I know someone they use the

1:12:01example of 100 units and if we go to 10

1:12:03they do 110 units and if they do 111

1:12:07units then they get the benefit of all

1:12:10the other 100. So while we have to look

1:12:14at the the packing restrictions that I

1:12:16know we have to make some changes you

1:12:18know is that this the right number is

1:12:20there a sweet better sweet spot cuz if

1:12:23you look at less than 25% of them three

1:12:25bedrooms less than 25 of them two

1:12:28bedrooms and the other 61 units if you

1:12:30did 25 each sure

1:12:32>> um it comes out to be like 186 parking

1:12:35units and that's a significant kind of

1:12:38shift and I get that I think one of the

1:12:40you know I know places um like I think

1:12:44um council see might be able to talk to

1:12:47this a little bit like Kennedy Drive. I

1:12:50know there was a problem with

1:12:52>> Okay, that's her lights on. So I know

1:12:54there was a problem with you know them

1:12:57charging people for you know parking

1:12:59spaces and people just going you know

1:13:01instead of doing street parking and it's

1:13:03really a major issue which is why they

1:13:05had to do some permit parking. So I

1:13:07don't know if like the one is the right

1:13:09number for everything or if there's a

1:13:10better sweet spot that you know that

1:13:13really gets us the relief that is you

1:13:16know good but actually gives us the the

1:13:19um space that we need.

1:13:21>> Absolutely. It's a great question. I

1:13:23know um parking is a big challenge

1:13:25across the city,

1:13:26>> right?

1:13:27>> The let me talk about it first in the

1:13:29context of inclusionary zoning and then

1:13:30I think

1:13:31>> there's a bigger bigger bigger picture

1:13:33conversation that needs to happen about

1:13:35parking that we can talk about a little

1:13:36bit tonight as well. Um with regard to

1:13:39the inclusionary zoning piece, um so the

1:13:42concern that I um that uh had come up

1:13:45was that the mixed income project, you

1:13:47could build, you know, two extra

1:13:49affordable units and then suddenly all

1:13:51of your units are at 75 instead of at

1:13:54the one space per unit that the market

1:13:56rate projects will get. So that is why

1:14:00there's this uh change here that we

1:14:01would like to make in committee um that

1:14:04treats the mixed income and the

1:14:05inclusionary zoning uh projects the same

1:14:08in terms of the parking uh benefits that

1:14:10they receive. We really would like to

1:14:12maintain the 75 for the 100% affordable

1:14:15projects. Having spoken to nonprofit

1:14:17developers and reviewed nonprofit uh

1:14:19owned 100% affordable projects, we see

1:14:23that that is sufficient sometimes more

1:14:25than sufficient for um for projects for

1:14:30affordable projects. Um and that we've

1:14:33also seen that that can really increase

1:14:35cost and make it difficult for a 100%

1:14:36affordable project to find even a parcel

1:14:39big enough depending on what that

1:14:40requirement is. Um so that is why we're

1:14:42intending to to make this change to to

1:14:45one space per unit um up from 0 75

1:14:48spaces per unit, but one space per unit

1:14:49for the mixed income projects to treat

1:14:51them the way that we're proposing to

1:14:52treat the market rate projects. As you

1:14:54said, the other piece of this um I'm

1:14:57sure the council remembers I believe it

1:14:59it might have been councelor Taylor's

1:15:00paper um around parking uh permit

1:15:03creating a parket, excuse me, a permit

1:15:05parking system um which uh the council

1:15:09pass and that the the transportation

1:15:11commission um is going to be uh working

1:15:14on as well as uh OSPC with our

1:15:16transportation planner. Um we are um one

1:15:20of the few cities of our size and

1:15:22density that does not have a residential

1:15:24permit parking program. As you all know

1:15:26um it is a huge exercise. It will be a

1:15:29deeply uh complicated project and it

1:15:31will also be a necessary project to make

1:15:33sure that these issues are resolved. Um

1:15:36what we have found is that um if you

1:15:40allow people to take advantage maybe on

1:15:42Kennedy Drive

1:15:44they will. And sometimes we can fix that

1:15:46with what we have now is kind of a a a

1:15:49patchwork permit parking program, which

1:15:51I know many of you in your awards um get

1:15:53a lot of calls about, oh, could we turn

1:15:55the street to this or what about that?

1:15:56And um I know our parking department

1:16:00does a lot of work just trying to

1:16:01maintain that system and it's and it's

1:16:03difficult. So, we are looking at doing a

1:16:04citywide

1:16:06um permit parking program. That will be

1:16:09a long effort and we'll definitely

1:16:11involve the council in that effort. um

1:16:14and we'll we will need to um but we're

1:16:17I'd say we're in the early stages of

1:16:19doing that. So, we will have more

1:16:21conversations about that to be sure. Um

1:16:24I think the the other big piece about

1:16:27this is to think about the balances and

1:16:29the trade-offs. When you think about our

1:16:32parking requirements today, they are

1:16:34significantly higher than when 90% of

1:16:37the housing in Malden was built.

1:16:39Significantly higher. um they are also

1:16:42much higher than the communities around

1:16:43us.

1:16:44>> Um

1:16:46we're not trying to solve that problem

1:16:49tonight and say, well, this is the right

1:16:51number. We know that right now the

1:16:52number is this and maybe it needs to be

1:16:53that. I'm not here to say I know what

1:16:55that number is. What we know is that

1:16:57this is what this number needs to be for

1:16:59inclusionary zoning. Um there will

1:17:01likely be a time probably in the next

1:17:03few years, probably after the

1:17:04comprehensive plan and after the

1:17:06residential permit parking study is done

1:17:08where that needs to be re-examined.

1:17:11that requires, you know, more work, more

1:17:13digging, more thorough thorough analysis

1:17:15of what the actual impact will be on the

1:17:17neighborhoods. Um, as well as what we

1:17:19can actually what we can actually do.

1:17:21So, right now, the way that we're

1:17:22looking at this is the city has made

1:17:25affordable housing a goal, a priority,

1:17:27and this is one of the ways that we can

1:17:28build it and it is also one of the

1:17:31challenges to building housing today in

1:17:33Malden, including affordable housing in

1:17:34Malden, is our current limits. So at the

1:17:38if if we could have you know addressed

1:17:39the parking question before addressing I

1:17:42think we would have if we could have

1:17:44kicked the I can down the road a few

1:17:46more years until we kind of did that I

1:17:48think we we would have but this is the

1:17:50order that they came in. So we might

1:17:51have to revisit the parking question

1:17:53because I think you know it is something

1:17:54that deserves our full attention.

1:17:57>> I appreciate that and I look forward to

1:17:59the conversation and I think everyone

1:18:01would love citywide permit packing. It's

1:18:04been a topic for probably 30 years or

1:18:07more that never really, you know,

1:18:10because there's so many issues with it.

1:18:12Yes.

1:18:12>> So, thank you.

1:18:13>> Yeah. Thank you, Councelor Crow.

1:18:15Councelor Seika. Thank you, Council

1:18:17President. Good evening. Thank you for

1:18:20your presentation. I am so glad that you

1:18:22decided to send this to rules and

1:18:24ordinance because I am absolutely not

1:18:26ready to vote on this this evening. um

1:18:28when you come before us in the

1:18:30committee, can you bring some data about

1:18:32the 15 to the 10 um the parking

1:18:36requirements because as probably one of

1:18:38the only council is sitting up here that

1:18:39has two huge developments that actually

1:18:42have parking which is Altitude formerly

1:18:46Granada and Overlook Ridge. I can tell

1:18:49you the residents around both of those

1:18:51um developments hate them. And uh

1:18:55Altitude is uh pretty much all

1:18:57affordable housing up there at this

1:19:00point. And on a Saturday night, I think

1:19:03they've figured out that we don't have

1:19:05somebody ticketing on Saturday because

1:19:07on Saturday night, you cannot you can

1:19:09barely get down Kennedy Drive, Central.

1:19:12They're down Winchester, Greenwood,

1:19:14Glenn, Mayor, Truman. I had to make

1:19:17every single one of those streets

1:19:19residential parking that people were so

1:19:21mad. They have to pay for a parking

1:19:23permit because of the inconvenience of

1:19:27Altitude and Altitude's blown up my

1:19:30phone this summer. They're looking to

1:19:31add more buildings up there, which over

1:19:34my dead body is not going to happen

1:19:36because they can't control the parking

1:19:38that they have now. So, I the parking is

1:19:41a huge thing. Um, overlook too. I never

1:19:44thought I'd have the problem, but we

1:19:46have one street left and it's Vining and

1:19:48they're literally jumping over a 4ft rod

1:19:51iron fence parking on Vining Street in

1:19:55the little stretch of Salem Street

1:19:56before you get on Route One. So, I I the

1:20:00one spot per unit really scares me.

1:20:05I would like to know more about the

1:20:06data. So, if you can bring some data on

1:20:09that and then why we're going to go from

1:20:1115% to 10% when we're saying we need

1:20:14affordable home, you know, more

1:20:16affordable housing, why we're going to

1:20:18go less. And then also why we're going

1:20:21to go um from one to two. So, for every

1:20:2510 units that we built, we're going to

1:20:28let affordable units, we're going to

1:20:31give 20 fair market rate, right?

1:20:34>> For 10 required.

1:20:36>> 10 required. And they're going to be

1:20:37able to do two.

1:20:38>> Yes.

1:20:39>> So every 10

1:20:40>> Yes.

1:20:41>> We're going to get 20.

1:20:42>> Yes.

1:20:43>> So I I'm not I I'd like to learn more

1:20:46why that's going to help our

1:20:47affordability piece if we're going to

1:20:49get 10 affordable, but 20 more at

1:20:52regular rates. So

1:20:54>> absolutely. And I can speak to some of

1:20:55that now tonight, but we we'll go more

1:20:57into it.

1:20:58>> We absolutely do not have to. There's no

1:21:00need to have the conversation twice. We

1:21:01could you could do it in committee. It's

1:21:03fine with me. It's up to you. Whatever

1:21:04you I'll just say I'll just say quickly

1:21:06and then I know that there are other

1:21:07papers that we need to get to as well,

1:21:08but I'll say quickly that

1:21:10>> for every bonus that we would consider

1:21:13taking away, we would need to further

1:21:14reduce the requirement to make it pencil

1:21:17out. So, if you wanted to take away, I'm

1:21:20not looking at the report of the numbers

1:21:22right now, but let's say you wanted to

1:21:23take away the parking benefit, you might

1:21:25have to then reduce it to I'm going to

1:21:27make up a number, 5% of the units as

1:21:29affordable,

1:21:30>> for example, because these things have

1:21:32to be in balance.

1:21:33>> And the the incentives are a are a huge

1:21:36part of that balance. So, when you

1:21:37change one piece of it, you got to be

1:21:39thinking about how the other piece

1:21:40shifts as well.

1:21:41>> If you can bring kind of a little thing

1:21:44for that.

1:21:44>> Yes. like a

1:21:46>> let me look and see what we have and

1:21:48we'll put something

1:21:48>> comparison. Yeah, if you could do that

1:21:50that would be great.

1:21:51>> We can do that. We've also shared the

1:21:52economic feasibility analysis uh I

1:21:54believe with the council and also with

1:21:55the public at cityofmalden.org/plans.

1:21:58You can see the economic feasibility

1:21:59analysis for inclusionary zoning and it

1:22:02goes through kind of these concerns and

1:22:03the analysis that was done.

1:22:04>> Perfect. Thank you.

1:22:05>> Can we make sure that's attached to the

1:22:06paper too, the feasibility analysis just

1:22:09so it's easy to find everything in one

1:22:11place. Thank you, Councelor Seika. Um,

1:22:14okay. I have counselor Simonelli next.

1:22:19>> Thank you. Thank you, Madam President.

1:22:21[clears throat] I really don't even know

1:22:22where to begin. There's so many uh

1:22:24topics here tonight. So, you're going to

1:22:25have to bear with me. I don't know what

1:22:27I want to take up first.

1:22:28>> The only topic we're talking about is

1:22:30inclusionary zoning.

1:22:31>> Yeah, I [laughter] know. But they all

1:22:32but they all kind of mix, right? They

1:22:34all kind of mix a little bit, right? And

1:22:37you know me, I kind of go off the

1:22:38reservation every now and then. So,

1:22:40listen. So, let me just say this.

1:22:42>> [sighs]

1:22:44>> affordable housing, right? So, you know,

1:22:49we all know the story here.

1:22:51Um,

1:22:53I live affordable housing, right? You

1:22:56all know me. I live in Newman Street

1:22:57Housing Projects for 25 years. Then I

1:23:01moved up the street to the Bowden Street

1:23:04Apartments. And you know, I like to talk

1:23:06about the fog cameras there, but

1:23:08we're not going to talk about that now.

1:23:09But I'll tell you right now, I just had

1:23:11some issues. this summer that I really

1:23:13can't divulge because they were under

1:23:16investigation right now. That is some

1:23:18serious issues that those cameras would

1:23:20have came in handy. But anyway, we're

1:23:22talking about affordable housing, right?

1:23:24And I can say that I don't think anybody

1:23:26up here can say that they've pioneered

1:23:28more affordable housing than Ward 7

1:23:31SuffK Square. And I I invite you and I

1:23:35will challenge you on a debate on how

1:23:37much you I don't belong to any

1:23:39committees about affordable housing.

1:23:42There's a saying in my neighborhood. I

1:23:44don't talk about it be about it. That

1:23:47being said, I we talking to Alex over

1:23:49the whole summer here on developing the

1:23:53Brian Street project, the Temple site.

1:23:57We talked about making it a a rec center

1:24:00in the beginning. Then we talked about

1:24:02affordable home ownership because here's

1:24:04the thing with affordable housing. You

1:24:07got to have a balance like Alex said,

1:24:09you gota have you can't have all

1:24:11affordable housing because I'll tell you

1:24:12right now and again I'll challenge

1:24:15anybody that wants to debate me on

1:24:16affordable housing because I live it

1:24:18every day of my life.

1:24:21So the thing with affordable housing is

1:24:23you got to have a balance. You got to

1:24:26have home ownership with affordability

1:24:29because the people that grow up, I'll

1:24:31tell you my story. When I was growing up

1:24:33in the Newland Street Housing projects

1:24:34in the 80s, 70s, and 90s when most of

1:24:39you people wouldn't even drive through

1:24:40there.

1:24:42Right now, it's like Tumble Weed City,

1:24:44but back in those days, it was a tough

1:24:46neighborhood. Am I right, Michelle?

1:24:49So

1:24:51that being said, when I got up every

1:24:53day, I used to look at like places like

1:24:55Daniel Street, Holloway Street, and see

1:24:59that the people that own these nice

1:25:01split level houses that had nice pools

1:25:04in their backyard and getting into nice

1:25:06vehicles and going to work every day,

1:25:09you know, I would say I want to be like

1:25:12them and I'll do whatever it takes to be

1:25:16that. And I have and I have

1:25:20right now we're working on 32 units down

1:25:23on Brian Street for affordability

1:25:26and we thinking out of the box because

1:25:28we're putting in disabled veterans units

1:25:31on the first two floors which I I don't

1:25:34see anyone doing that and the rest of

1:25:36them will be for what we got 70% Malden

1:25:38residents that can take the rest of the

1:25:41units. I get calls every day in my

1:25:43neighborhood for affordability

1:25:46and people that want to maybe even like

1:25:48maybe move out of the Newland Street

1:25:50projects and move into something else,

1:25:53something different, but they're single

1:25:55mothers, single parents, so they don't

1:25:58have the income and the ability to do

1:25:59so.

1:26:02So,

1:26:04it's, you know, it's our job as public

1:26:06officials

1:26:08to actually take action and do something

1:26:10about it. I look at I don't want to bore

1:26:12you all with my stuff here, but I will

1:26:15say this. Since I was elected in 1998,

1:26:20we have built over 150 units

1:26:24in Ward 7 for affordable housing. Like I

1:26:27said again, I'd like anybody to come up

1:26:29and show me how many units they built in

1:26:31their neighborhood. on top of the new

1:26:35and street housing development, Bryant

1:26:38Terrace,

1:26:39Suffach Mana, Scattered Housing for the

1:26:42Housing Authority,

1:26:45Bowden Street Apartments.

1:26:48I I don't think you can. I challenge you

1:26:51to do so. I really do. I'd like to

1:26:53debate on it because this is a real

1:26:56touchy subject for me when it comes to

1:26:58affordability.

1:27:00I live it. My family lived it. I have

1:27:03lived it. I live in it right now.

1:27:06And all the problems that go with

1:27:08affordability.

1:27:12So,

1:27:15I don't know. I you know, we sit up

1:27:16here, we talk about affordable housing.

1:27:20Well, look at I said this before. We

1:27:23could put a bubble on Malden and make it

1:27:25all all affordable. And guess what,

1:27:27folks? It'd still be a waiting list.

1:27:31when I what you know we can only do the

1:27:33best that we can do but I gotta be

1:27:35honest man I'm sick and tired of sitting

1:27:37up here and here and again you know

1:27:40don't get mad if you want to when the

1:27:43meeting's over you can come see me but

1:27:44don't get mad I'm sick of talking about

1:27:47it we talk about it that committee

1:27:51that's on that you know affordable

1:27:53housing trust fund great committee

1:27:56they've they've donated a lot of money

1:27:58to programs in my neighborhood

1:28:02But again, you know, we sit up here and

1:28:03we talk about, you know, and the thing I

1:28:05got to say is talking to Alex over the

1:28:08summertime about all kinds of different

1:28:10projects, including this one, cuz it's a

1:28:12touchy one on the Brian Street project,

1:28:16and I I'm sniffing out some others. I'm

1:28:19not done yet.

1:28:21But the thing is, I got into public

1:28:24service

1:28:27because I wanted to try and make life

1:28:29better. for someone who's less fortunate

1:28:31than I am.

1:28:34And giving somebody a decent

1:28:37place to live that rats running around,

1:28:41mice, stuff falling off the walls, you

1:28:44know, living in Potterville,

1:28:47we have an ability to do something about

1:28:49it. And talking to Alex over the summer,

1:28:54it's like it's out of the box thinking

1:28:56cuz I'm going to tell you why. Because,

1:28:59you know, we're we're heading for some

1:29:01bad times. I'm not an economist or

1:29:02nothing, but you know, I see the news

1:29:05all the time. Gas is like almost $5 a

1:29:07gallon for you know, and food's going up

1:29:09again, right? We already know that the

1:29:12prices of uh uh rent here, I don't even

1:29:15know how uh this generation of uh young

1:29:20people can afford these rents right now.

1:29:22I'll give you an example. when I lived

1:29:23in Bold Street Apartments back in uh

1:29:261989.

1:29:29>> The same apartment that I have now

1:29:31>> was $250 a month.

1:29:34>> Yeah, I know.

1:29:35>> And right now I'm paying $2,000

1:29:38for a one-bedroom basement apartment in

1:29:41Balden Street apartments. It's like a

1:29:42Leverne and Shirley apartment. You look

1:29:44out the window, you see everybody's

1:29:45shoes, which is pretty cool cuz I like

1:29:47looking at shoes. But the fact of the

1:29:49matter is

1:29:51there's a huge need out there. And

1:29:53here's the thing you got to you got to

1:29:54remember. No matter how good you're

1:29:57doing right now, your children

1:30:02can fall on bad times like everybody

1:30:05else. And who you calling when that

1:30:08happens? Us up here, right? Am I lying?

1:30:12Hey, you know, my my daughter, my son,

1:30:15you know, you know, single mom,

1:30:18three kids,

1:30:21you know, you know, she can't afford a

1:30:23rent, they're evicted her, whatever

1:30:25story you want to put to it.

1:30:27>> Counselor, can I give you a time check?

1:30:29>> No, not really. Cuz I I'm up here

1:30:30sometimes and I hear Council Winsler, no

1:30:33effect, no offense, but he's up here

1:30:34talking for hours. So, I'm going to use

1:30:36my time to talk because I have that

1:30:38right.

1:30:39>> You do have that right, Council.

1:30:42I'm not going to shut you off,

1:30:43counselor.

1:30:43>> You don't want to shut me off. Shut me

1:30:44off.

1:30:45>> I don't want to shut you off. We have

1:30:47You have a You have Listen, it's a

1:30:48serious situation.

1:30:49>> We have a colleague waiting to speak and

1:30:51you've been speaking for 10 minutes.

1:30:52>> Yeah, I waited. I'm talking. That's it.

1:30:55Counselor,

1:30:55>> do you have

1:30:56>> I'm talking.

1:30:57>> Do you have comments on this paper?

1:30:59>> Yeah. Can't you hear the comments I'm

1:31:00saying?

1:31:02I'm talking. Don't

1:31:03>> you need to You need to wrap it up.

1:31:05>> No, don't interrupt me when I'm

1:31:06speaking, counselor. This is a serious

1:31:08situation. I'll give you an example that

1:31:11on Brian on Brian Street there was an

1:31:14old synagogue

1:31:15and

1:31:17they wanted to build 16 units but

1:31:19because of the density they were only

1:31:21going to allow to build 14. So the

1:31:24contractor was backing out of the deal

1:31:26because they couldn't make any money

1:31:28without the 16 units versus the 14. So

1:31:32this is exactly my comment what I'm

1:31:34trying to say. I think that the Alex and

1:31:37his team are thinking out of the box

1:31:41by saying that look, we're heading for

1:31:44some economic problems down the road.

1:31:47And if you don't make it advantageous

1:31:49for the developers to come in and build

1:31:51these units, I don't care what your

1:31:53percentage is. If they don't build them,

1:31:56you don't have them.

1:31:58And they're going to go to other cities

1:32:00that allow that.

1:32:03Right? was it 5 10,000 units coming on

1:32:05right now over in Everett and Chelsea

1:32:08line on the Parkway. So I'm just telling

1:32:11you that it's out of the box thinking my

1:32:14neighborhood is a pioneer for affordable

1:32:17housing. A champion. Always has been.

1:32:20That's why I find it like a joke up here

1:32:23sometimes when I see people talking out

1:32:25of the side of their neck about

1:32:26affordable housing, but they don't build

1:32:27it in their own neighborhoods. But I do

1:32:30in mine.

1:32:32So, I I I support this paper. And here's

1:32:36the thing, they're all working papers,

1:32:37folks. So, you know, when the time frame

1:32:41runs out and we see that it's not

1:32:42working, you can always change it.

1:32:46But if you don't if you don't act on

1:32:49things and take action on things and

1:32:51just sit up here and kick the can and

1:32:53talk about it and you know let people

1:32:56like Ward 7 or Ward One or Ward 8 create

1:33:00affordable housing no one else

1:33:04then honestly

1:33:07I'm going to disrespect you. I don't

1:33:08think you I don't think you have

1:33:10anything to say on the topic and I'd

1:33:13love to debate on it. Councelor, it's

1:33:15time for you. Tell me how much that you

1:33:18>> councelor Ali, you have the floor.

1:33:20>> Hey, I'm done. Relax. Don't get crazy.

1:33:23>> I would move to refer this to ordinance

1:33:25for further discussion.

1:33:26>> I'll second that.

1:33:28>> On a motion by councelor Ali.

1:33:30>> Oh, sorry. I would like for us to just

1:33:33read it into the record.

1:33:34>> Let's read it into the record. Thank you

1:33:36to the clerk.

1:33:36>> And um I'm going to read it in two

1:33:38different papers. First, we're going to

1:33:39receive the communication from the

1:33:40planning board. Paper 375-26

1:33:44communication from planning board

1:33:46regarding CCP 3352026

1:33:48inclusionary zoning ordinance

1:33:50amendments.

1:33:52Um so a motion to receive the

1:33:53communication please.

1:33:54>> Motion to receive.

1:33:55>> Okay. On a motion by councelor McDonald

1:33:57seconded by councelor Winsow. All in

1:34:00favor?

1:34:01>> That is received. Thank you. Paper

1:34:04335-26

1:34:05be ordained by the Malden city council

1:34:07that the code of the city Malden

1:34:0912.12.300

1:34:10inclusionary zoning is hereby amended by

1:34:13striking the ordinance in its entirety

1:34:14and inserting the following and then I'm

1:34:17sorry was it councelor Mali that made

1:34:18the motion?

1:34:19>> Seconded by councelor Sika.

1:34:21>> Thank you to refer to rules and

1:34:23ordinance.

1:34:24>> We just need a voice vote.

1:34:26>> Yes, please.

1:34:26>> Okay, all in favor?

1:34:28>> I Okay, that is referred to ordinance.

1:34:30Okay, going back to the top of the list,

1:34:36we have paper 370-26,

1:34:39communication from planning board

1:34:40regarding CCP

1:34:422632026,

1:34:44general regulations, home occupations

1:34:46and definitions for retail residential

1:34:48kitchen cottage food operation and

1:34:50cottage food product zoning ordinance

1:34:52amendments. This is to receive the

1:34:54communication report from the planning

1:34:55board.

1:34:57>> Motion to receive the communication.

1:34:59>> Okay. Okay. On a motion by councelor

1:35:01Winsow, seconded by councelor McDonald.

1:35:03All in favor? I. That is received. Paper

1:35:06263-26 be ordained by the Malden city

1:35:09council that the code of the city of

1:35:10Malden title 12 are hereby amended by

1:35:13the following as is outlined in the body

1:35:15of this paper. This is about the

1:35:17residential uh kitchens the cottage food

1:35:20operation sponsored by councelor Leong.

1:35:24>> Okay. Council Wong, do you want to speak

1:35:26to the paper or do you want to move into

1:35:27the presentation by OSPCD staff?

1:35:33>> Okay, no problem. Alex, you have the

1:35:35floor.

1:35:35>> Thank you. I'm going to hand it over to

1:35:36our deputy director, Zach Lamel.

1:35:38>> Great. Thank you, Zach. Welcome.

1:35:40>> Hi, everybody.

1:35:41>> Thank you for being with us.

1:35:43>> Happy to be here. I want to just get to

1:35:45the cottage kitchen slides and I want to

1:35:49just say um that working on this item um

1:35:52you know that councelor Wong brought

1:35:54over the last few months has been really

1:35:55great. Obviously you heard the comments

1:35:57from uh some of the residents who are

1:35:59interested in opening these businesses

1:36:01and kind of um

1:36:04taking the small step that they can to

1:36:07build a business hopefully leading to

1:36:09larger um you know economic development

1:36:11within the city and beyond.

1:36:14So the item that is before you and I

1:36:17think was stated uh by the paper and and

1:36:19and by some of the people that spoke is

1:36:22the state has created rules and

1:36:24regulations for small operators to

1:36:27produce um a very limited set of items

1:36:30of food um or food items um so it could

1:36:33be baked goods, it could be uh roasted

1:36:35coffee um within their home as long as

1:36:39they are um you know within the proper

1:36:41licenses they they have all they follow

1:36:43all the rules and regulations. They can

1:36:45they can do that. Um they are inspected.

1:36:48Um and again, it is a way that lowers

1:36:51the barrier to entry, right? If you

1:36:53don't have to if you can use your own

1:36:54home, you don't have to pay for a

1:36:55commercial kitchen. Uh you don't have to

1:36:57rent space. Um if you're going to fail,

1:36:59you can fail fast and you can modify and

1:37:01you can change. Uh and if you're

1:37:03successful, you can grow and expand

1:37:04beyond that. So really what the

1:37:07recommendation is to allow this type of

1:37:11use uh kind of per the state guidelines

1:37:14that have already been created. This has

1:37:15been on the books for a while. All mo

1:37:17pretty much all of our neighboring

1:37:18communities have this uh and many

1:37:20obviously well beyond um our neighboring

1:37:23communities allow um these cottage

1:37:25kitchens to to exist within uh homes.

1:37:29And the way that we are proposing to do

1:37:32that here in Malden is to allow this use

1:37:36a retail residential kitchen or a

1:37:37cottage food operation as part of uh the

1:37:41home business allowance. This is what is

1:37:43in the zoning right now. Um the number

1:37:46nine in red is the addition of the

1:37:48retail residential kitchen. Um so you

1:37:50can see these are some things that are

1:37:51allowed right now. You can go um to uh

1:37:54the inspectional services department.

1:37:55You can say I am a artist and I want to

1:37:59operate a studio within my my home. I do

1:38:03woodworking, model making, uh dress

1:38:06making. You can have a daycare facility.

1:38:09Um and you can see that some of these

1:38:10items uh allow for pickup um of goods

1:38:14and services and some of them do not. Um

1:38:16so it is not across the board uh than

1:38:19for the cottage kitchens. We are uh

1:38:22saying a recommendation that you you can

1:38:24do pickups. um not wholesale

1:38:26transactions.

1:38:29So if we allow it within our home

1:38:32businesses, the other piece that we need

1:38:33to do is we need to define it within the

1:38:34zoning ordinance. So these two

1:38:36additional uh terms would be added to

1:38:38the zoning ordinance. We would define

1:38:40what a residential kitchen is and then

1:38:42we would define what the products you

1:38:44can um you can make uh in that kitchen

1:38:48are. And those would be tied to what the

1:38:50state guidelines and rules already are

1:38:52as well.

1:38:55So that those are the zoning changes

1:38:57that are before you. Uh as was discussed

1:38:59in planning board and discussed uh in

1:39:01working with inspectional services,

1:39:02working with the health department. Um

1:39:04our recommendation is that this would be

1:39:06approved with an effective date of of

1:39:08January 1. Um because the uh board of

1:39:13health rules and regulations need to be

1:39:15created. Um there are lots of examples

1:39:18from our neighboring communities out

1:39:19there. We don't need to reinvent the

1:39:21wheel here, but it will take a little

1:39:22bit of time to do that. Uh that will

1:39:25give time uh for the board of health to

1:39:27act. And in addition, I know there's

1:39:29been some concern around um certain wa

1:39:31waste regulations uh that could be

1:39:33updated um which are not before you. So

1:39:35uh that this is the proposal before you

1:39:38and our recommendation would be to set

1:39:39an effective date for January 1. Thank

1:39:42you.

1:39:44>> Okay. Thank you, Zach. Any questions,

1:39:47discussion?

1:39:49Councelor Omali

1:39:52>> on the home occupations. Can you go back

1:39:54to the home occupations?

1:39:57H

1:39:57>> how does one how does one get permitted

1:40:00for this? Like if someone wanted to do

1:40:02one of these things I know we're coming

1:40:04up with a new process for residential

1:40:06kitchens because it's more complicated,

1:40:07but the other things how how does what's

1:40:10what's the entry point for that?

1:40:12[snorts]

1:40:13>> Uh I believe you go to inspectional

1:40:15services. Uh first you need to get a

1:40:17certificate of occupancy. Uh and then

1:40:18you would go to the clerk's office for a

1:40:20business certificate. Um there might be

1:40:23other licensing requirements depending

1:40:24on what the the the use is, but that's

1:40:27the kind of gist.

1:40:30>> So if you so if you if you want to like

1:40:33make dresses in your house, you just go

1:40:35to inspectional services and say, "Hi,

1:40:37I'd like to make dresses in my house."

1:40:38And

1:40:40>> I can't speak to what their specific

1:40:41requirements are, but I I can get those

1:40:43for you.

1:40:44>> Okay, cool. only because I think that

1:40:46for many of us maybe this was new to us

1:40:49that this is something we have already

1:40:52and that we're really just adding to

1:40:54that. Um I think it's probably not so

1:40:56well known maybe more for the clerk but

1:40:58I think for the general public maybe not

1:41:00so much and so just understanding what

1:41:02that process is I think is helpful not

1:41:04only for the residential kitchen side of

1:41:06it but also for some of these other

1:41:08things I think are really cool. Thank

1:41:10you. H. Oh. Oh, a ton of lights came up

1:41:13while we were chatting. Um, okay. I have

1:41:15counselor McDonald next.

1:41:17>> I'm happy to defer to councelor Leong if

1:41:19she wants to go next because this is her

1:41:20paper.

1:41:22>> Councelor Leong, would you like to speak

1:41:24to this paper?

1:41:25>> Thank you. Um, when this was brought to

1:41:27me, um, and thank you councelor Lahan

1:41:30for partnering from the beginning on

1:41:32this paper with me. um was a resident

1:41:36and exactly what you talked about um was

1:41:39that you know they wanted to build their

1:41:41business and they want to do it in their

1:41:43home. Um they're not ready. They were

1:41:45not ready to invest in a brick and

1:41:48mortar. They're not ready to invest in

1:41:50everything they can. And quite frankly

1:41:52to go to a commercial kitchen that's a

1:41:55large investment in its own self as one

1:41:57of our residents said. So you know it's

1:41:59really endear to me to watch people

1:42:01wanting to start their own businesses.

1:42:03My husband and I, you know, we started a

1:42:05business and someone helped us, you

1:42:07know, we had that, you know, we had that

1:42:09cushion and, you know, I just feel that

1:42:13our city has wide amount of diversity,

1:42:16and I think that this could um really

1:42:19benefit from all kinds of different

1:42:21communities, different cultures, and I'd

1:42:23love to see um this come through, and

1:42:25I'd like to see what it, you know, I'd

1:42:27like to see um people build their

1:42:28businesses and eventually have brick and

1:42:31mortar stores right here in Walden.

1:42:34Thank you, Councelor Leong. And I'll go

1:42:36back to Councelor McDonald. Thank you so

1:42:37much for deferring.

1:42:38>> Yeah, just thank you. I I mean, I'm just

1:42:40super excited about this and I hear

1:42:42nothing but positive feedback from our

1:42:44residents. Thank you to folks who

1:42:45submitted public comment. Um my real

1:42:48question is like I mean I I'm I'm

1:42:50personally ready to move forward on this

1:42:52and and do we need to refer it to

1:42:55committee or would we be prepared to

1:42:57take a vote on the floor tonight? and

1:42:59I'll I'll defer to others who've been

1:43:01closer to that process. Speaking for

1:43:03myself, ready to vote with your

1:43:05recommendation about how to modify based

1:43:07on the conversation at the planning

1:43:08board, but I leave it to my colleagues

1:43:10to decide whether we're ready for that

1:43:12tonight or whether we should refer to

1:43:13committee.

1:43:14>> Okay, great. Thank you, Councelor

1:43:15McDonald. Um, councelor Sika, thank you.

1:43:18Um, I too am in support of this paper,

1:43:21but I I I'm going to sit here and play

1:43:23devil's advocate a little bit here for a

1:43:25moment. So, I might be the only one up

1:43:27here, but

1:43:29as a person who sits there and scrolls

1:43:31through Tik Tok all the time in my free

1:43:33time,

1:43:34>> don't do it.

1:43:35>> Um, [laughter] it's it's terrible, but

1:43:37and I think it's wonderful and I want to

1:43:39see, you know, everybody do these small

1:43:41homebased cottage kitchens. I I can't

1:43:44wait to try the stuff. Like we saw what

1:43:46happened with the viral empanada lady.

1:43:48And although it's a totally different

1:43:51cuz that is, you know, not a shelf

1:43:53stable item. Like

1:43:55>> I follow this lady in Wilmington who

1:43:57makes sourdough breads. It's like shoe

1:43:59shan farm or something is the name of

1:44:01it. And every morning she puts out this

1:44:03little farm stand in her driveway. And

1:44:06it has caused complete and total chaos

1:44:10in the neighborhood up there. She has a

1:44:12line down the driveway, down the street.

1:44:15Like, will there be things that we have

1:44:17put in place for in case something like

1:44:20that was to happen? Like, what? Because

1:44:24I'm going to get the phone call. You are

1:44:26all going to get that phone call. If

1:44:28somebody is in their neighborhood and

1:44:31they can't park in front of their house

1:44:32or they can't even get down their street

1:44:34because the it's it's causing such a

1:44:37commotion. If anybody's on TikTok, you

1:44:39should check out this poor girl. like

1:44:42single [snorts] mom. She's great. Like

1:44:43she's teaching her daughter. It's it's

1:44:46wonderful. But after a while, it was

1:44:49like every Saturday she'd put out her

1:44:50sourdough breads and her cinnamon rolls

1:44:52and whatever and they just they went all

1:44:56over the place. So, I'm thinking I'm

1:44:58hoping that I would love for it to

1:45:01happen to one of us, but I wouldn't

1:45:03because then I'm going to get the phone

1:45:04calls and everyone else up here is going

1:45:06to get the phone calls. So, it's like

1:45:08what do we do? And as far as the um

1:45:12board of health, like should we be

1:45:14passing this before we know what their

1:45:16regulations are going to be? Like is

1:45:17anybody concerned what the board of

1:45:19health is going to actually implement?

1:45:22Like I don't know. Like I know I think

1:45:24this paper we have to do by November

1:45:2610th, too, right?

1:45:28>> All of them.

1:45:28>> So maybe we can light a fire under the

1:45:31board of health's butt to get moving.

1:45:34And before we just make a final vote on

1:45:37this paper, we kind of know what the

1:45:39health department's gonna regulate. Like

1:45:42I I I don't know.

1:45:44>> Zach, could you I'm totally for this

1:45:47paper. I I don't want anybody to think

1:45:49that I'm not. I will be voting in

1:45:51support of it. I just

1:45:52>> I just don't know if we should wait to

1:45:55see what the health department's going

1:45:57to what their regulations are going to

1:45:59be. Maybe somebody up here may not like

1:46:00what their regulations are going to be.

1:46:02So if we don't have to rush, maybe we

1:46:05shouldn't.

1:46:05>> Okay.

1:46:07>> Well, what I would say to that is I

1:46:09think, you know, so this we don't we

1:46:12aren't starting from scratch, right? I

1:46:14think as part of this process and

1:46:15working, you know, with a lot of the

1:46:16counselors uh who kind of to get the

1:46:19language to where it is now. Um we

1:46:22looked at our neighboring communities

1:46:24and the processes that they have and

1:46:27also what the state provides. Right? And

1:46:29I'm not I don't want to say that it will

1:46:31be a copy paste, but I think it can be

1:46:33somewhat close to that. Um I can't speak

1:46:36for the board of health, but that would

1:46:37be what you know in my role I would say

1:46:40we can learn that okay, you set these

1:46:43are the these are the food safety

1:46:45requirements and these are this is when

1:46:46you have to do it. If you have a if you

1:46:48live in a rental unit, you have to get

1:46:50permission from your landlord before you

1:46:51can apply. You need to confirm you're

1:46:53not doing wholesale. You know, it's a

1:46:55kind of very clear step-by-step process.

1:46:57Um, and so I think we have

1:47:01a lot that we can copy and paste from.

1:47:03Yeah. Again,

1:47:03>> well, the business certificate, you have

1:47:05to get approval from your landlord if

1:47:07you are in a rental unit anyway. Right

1:47:10now, so I would assume that's not going

1:47:11to change.

1:47:12>> Sure.

1:47:12>> Yeah.

1:47:12>> Um, so there's just a lot of things that

1:47:14I think, you know, again, that are that

1:47:16are fairly standard that have been well

1:47:17thought out and we can use here.

1:47:20>> Okay. Um but again that would be what we

1:47:22would present to the board of health and

1:47:23say this is the recommendation and they

1:47:26they they will take it the way that they

1:47:27want to take it.

1:47:28>> Okay.

1:47:29>> Okay. Um I just want to check with

1:47:30counselor Leong. Did you want to respond

1:47:32to that?

1:47:34>> Okay. The state has clear guidelines,

1:47:36labeling requirements, nutritional

1:47:38requirements. Um things have to be um

1:47:41clearly stated. There's um they have a

1:47:44guideline for board of health on how

1:47:47that should be structured. So, you know,

1:47:50to your point exactly, there's stuff

1:47:53that's already in place at the state

1:47:55level that we can adopt. It would just

1:47:57be if there's additional items that the

1:48:01board of health would want.

1:48:04>> So, okay. So, we're starting from

1:48:05scratch, but not really because the

1:48:07state has their clear guidelines and

1:48:09there's things that have to be followed.

1:48:10This it's very down to no non-p

1:48:12perishables at all whatsoever. There's

1:48:15only there's certain things you can and

1:48:17can't. I don't have a problem with any

1:48:19of that honestly, Michelle. I just, you

1:48:21know, like voting on something before

1:48:23it's actually completely finalized.

1:48:25That's my only thing is maybe if it

1:48:29doesn't if it's not going to get

1:48:30implemented till January 1st anyway.

1:48:32It's

1:48:34>> I just thought maybe we should wait and

1:48:36see what the health department's going

1:48:38to come back with. That's all. And and

1:48:40who knows, maybe there might be

1:48:42something that like if there was an

1:48:44issue with, you know, a neighbor, we

1:48:46could kind of add a little bit of

1:48:48wording or something into this so that

1:48:51we have something in place if one of our

1:48:54little

1:48:56uh cottage kitchens goes viral on social

1:48:59media. We know what to do. Like maybe

1:49:02they don't have a 10:00 a.m. on Saturday

1:49:04and they they kind of spread out their,

1:49:07you know, pickups a little bit. I think

1:49:09that's the benefit of having a process,

1:49:10right? Like we this isn't something that

1:49:12we are not licensing. The fact that we

1:49:14are licensing it if someone becomes a a

1:49:17problem, so to say. We could say to

1:49:19them, you're really making this an issue

1:49:21for your neighbors. That's where we have

1:49:22the ability to say, you know, you have a

1:49:25license with the city or you you have

1:49:26your cottage kitchen, but you're not

1:49:28doing this in the way that we would like

1:49:29you to be.

1:49:30>> So, are these going to go come to me

1:49:32with a license like before the council?

1:49:35How how is that working?

1:49:36>> Can you see it just going through the

1:49:37board? the sequence will be

1:49:39>> I mean as proposed this isn't this

1:49:42wouldn't be licensed right

1:49:44>> because so they'd go to the board of

1:49:45health to actually that would be their

1:49:47final stop

1:49:48>> I I think

1:49:49>> so they would be the compliant people so

1:49:51it would have nothing to do with us even

1:49:53though we're going to get phone calls

1:49:55>> but this what I'm saying is as oppos I

1:49:57don't know who this person is

1:49:59>> literally just playing devil's advocate

1:50:00here you know you like

1:50:02>> but if somebody's off the books

1:50:04completely and Malden just has no

1:50:05cottage kitchen ordinance then We don't

1:50:08really have a leg to stand on to even

1:50:09say you can't put the seat in your

1:50:11driveway, right?

1:50:12>> I I total I totally get it. Yeah, I

1:50:14totally get it. I mean, I I I get it.

1:50:17I'm not against this. I just was trying

1:50:19to figure out

1:50:20>> Yeah, I I hear you.

1:50:21>> I was trying to be proactive.

1:50:24Um I want to move on, but councelor

1:50:25Leong, do you have a response to that

1:50:27for Okay, very quickly.

1:50:29>> So, I think that we talked about that.

1:50:31We talked about the licensing part. We

1:50:33talked about pre-arranged pickups. We

1:50:36talked about, you know, how is the best

1:50:38way, you know, scheduling certain times

1:50:40for pickups only. So, just in case that

1:50:42does happen. Got it. Um, we did talk

1:50:44about should it go through licensing and

1:50:46I think that that's where the the things

1:50:48that we have to work out. Do we want it

1:50:50to go through licensing, you know, and I

1:50:52think calling it a pilot isn't really

1:50:54what we intended. I think it was just

1:50:56limiting licenses to maybe 10 licenses.

1:50:59Maybe we start out small. We allow 10 to

1:51:01start and see where that goes and then

1:51:03we can expand it from there. So not so

1:51:05much a pilot program because I think

1:51:07pilot to your point resident um was that

1:51:11that we could shut it off at any time

1:51:13and I think it's just start small and

1:51:15work up.

1:51:16>> Do we really one last question um the

1:51:19cities around us that already offer

1:51:21this? How many cottage licenses do they

1:51:24have in each city? Does anybody know?

1:51:26>> I think it was fairly limited. I think

1:51:27councelor Wong you had

1:51:29>> um spoken to a few places. I think um

1:51:33River had five.

1:51:35>> Okay.

1:51:35>> It's small

1:51:36>> small I think. And Melrose I forget what

1:51:39>> Melrose had more than 10 less than 15

1:51:42and they said that they've never had any

1:51:45issue. Perfect. There's been nothing. Um

1:51:47and what I was just really quickly to

1:51:50respond there was part of that ordinance

1:51:53um that you can't sell on site. So you

1:51:56we made it so that you could not

1:51:58>> I wasn't sure when I was reading that. I

1:52:00wasn't sure if that was what the

1:52:03planning board was asking.

1:52:04>> No, you could pick up something or and

1:52:07we kind of talked about whether or not

1:52:08we were going to allow pickups, but

1:52:12>> pick up that you couldn't just put like

1:52:14a little farm out and

1:52:15>> No. And that makes me that makes me feel

1:52:17better cuz seriously, I'm like, "Oh my

1:52:20god, my phone's going to be blowing up

1:52:21if you know if

1:52:23>> say she has an amazing sourdough or

1:52:25cinnamon roll." She's [laughter] going

1:52:26to be crazy. So,

1:52:28>> I hope you do, but

1:52:31Thank you.

1:52:32>> All right. Thank you all. Okay. So, I'm

1:52:34going to go to councelor Winslow next.

1:52:36>> I I just wanted to maybe be kind of last

1:52:39to speak to because we do need to speak

1:52:41about the the planning board

1:52:42recommendations. So, if other counselors

1:52:44want to speak ahead of me, I just defer.

1:52:45So,

1:52:46>> okay. I'll take councelor Simelli then.

1:52:48>> Thank you, Madam President. Uh listen,

1:52:50I'm for the paper. If you remember like

1:52:52Don Conrad from uh Boments, she started

1:52:55the bakery business. Now she's in Market

1:52:58Basket and all over the place. And it

1:53:00gives people an opportunity to, you

1:53:02know, do things, start their own

1:53:03business, uh, that can't really rent the

1:53:06place right now because they got family

1:53:08issues or they just, you know, single

1:53:09parent or whatever. So, I'm I'm for it,

1:53:11but I I have to go back to I think

1:53:13councelor McDonald is saying that um,

1:53:16you know, I think it's probably there's

1:53:18some things I know councelor seeker has

1:53:19brought up some good issues. Like I

1:53:21said, I'm for the paper. I think it's a

1:53:22great idea. give people the opportunity

1:53:24to be able to do stuff out of their

1:53:26house. I mean, you know, Christmas and

1:53:28um Easter, I make like 50 uh 50 pies uh

1:53:34at my house, right? And uh give them

1:53:37out. So, I mean, you know, it's just I I

1:53:39don't see it being a problem. I I I

1:53:41think it's it's good for people to do

1:53:42that, but I I understand like council

1:53:44seekers saying like if you know, people

1:53:45are coming to their house and it's

1:53:47causing a traffic jam, people are

1:53:49pocketing in front of people's

1:53:50driveways. Uh so again don't take any

1:53:53more time because I get yelled at but uh

1:53:55>> not high am I

1:53:57>> council McDonald I will say [laughter]

1:54:00yeah got me too council McDonald I will

1:54:04say that he had said mentioned that I

1:54:05think that we should just put it in

1:54:06committee so that we can like iron out

1:54:08some of these little creases which are

1:54:10real little creases that we have that

1:54:13some of the councils have brought up. So

1:54:15you know I think it probably should be

1:54:17uh in committee. I don't know if

1:54:18somebody already uh motioned that, but

1:54:20I'll second it to put it in committee. I

1:54:22think it's a good paper.

1:54:23>> I don't think we don't have a motion.

1:54:25>> Okay. Thank Thank you, Councelor

1:54:26Simonelli. Uh councelor Ali.

1:54:29>> Yeah, I think I mean I'm in support of

1:54:30this. You know, I I was sad when I

1:54:32realized it it was only for shelf

1:54:34stabled. I was like a big supporter of

1:54:35the empanad lady. I've definitely gotten

1:54:37smoked meats out of people's houses.

1:54:38[laughter] So, I don't know if I have

1:54:40like a higher a higher tolerance for

1:54:41this, but I think that um you know,

1:54:43whether it's this or like, you know,

1:54:45marijuana, I think regulating things and

1:54:47letting people do things in ways that

1:54:49are bringing in the board of health and

1:54:52other entities to help make sure it's

1:54:54done in a safe way is a good way because

1:54:56people are definitely doing this. So,

1:55:00thanks.

1:55:00>> Thank you. I'm going to go back to

1:55:02councelor Winslow now.

1:55:04>> Yeah, you know, I I am very supportive

1:55:07of this. I I think that um you know

1:55:11sometimes we can overthink things. So I

1:55:13think that's the type of thing. But I

1:55:15also think I mean one of the things that

1:55:17if you know the planning board

1:55:19recommendation I don't know if we've

1:55:21actually voted to accept that yet but um

1:55:23the planning boards

1:55:26>> they they just they recommended we

1:55:28disapprove it. They didn't just make

1:55:29some comments. They recommended we

1:55:30disapprove it. And I mean I I suggest

1:55:33people look at you know particularly the

1:55:35building commissioner. I mean now all

1:55:37inspections fall under that the

1:55:39commissioner there. So those were very

1:55:42significant concerns that were raised at

1:55:44the planning board. I think sometimes

1:55:45it's overthinking. But one of the things

1:55:47I mean I don't know as people are

1:55:49talking to staff um to me this is going

1:55:52across departments is that you know

1:55:55[cough and clears throat] with these

1:55:56staffing cuts that have happened our

1:55:58staff is very stressed and I think one

1:56:01of the things we have to think about as

1:56:02a council as asking our staff to do more

1:56:05stuff when we just ask them to already

1:56:07do more stuff without any more

1:56:09resources. So, so I think that's the one

1:56:11thing that um you know I I would really

1:56:15suggest we we table this until we know I

1:56:18did actually talk to Laura um Velocic

1:56:20from the health department. She thinks

1:56:23with um you know if we can work to get

1:56:26the building inspector on board here,

1:56:29she thinks the the you know the steps to

1:56:32just adopt the board you know the state

1:56:34public health regulations is is not the

1:56:37barrier here. It's really getting to

1:56:39figure out how administratively staff is

1:56:42going to handle this and that that's

1:56:43something it's it's a role we we're not

1:56:45going to be the people that you know

1:56:48take intake the permits review them and

1:56:51ultimately inspect. I mean the concern

1:56:53that that is expressed in the planning

1:56:55board you know review from Nelson Miller

1:56:57is that we have one health inspector.

1:56:59They do 500 inspections a year and

1:57:02that's a lot. And I mean, I think other

1:57:05communities have figured this out, but I

1:57:07I don't know if we've quite figured that

1:57:08out. And I I feel like, you know, having

1:57:11that conversation while we have time.

1:57:13Um, you know, is really the appropriate

1:57:16thing to do as a council. Um, I I say

1:57:18I'm supportive of this. Um, and but, you

1:57:22know, if this was something we had to

1:57:24pass by September 10th, maybe I'd feel

1:57:27differently, but we still have a couple

1:57:29months. and to have that conversation

1:57:31and not you know you know at this time

1:57:34when our staff is really under stress um

1:57:37we have to be sensitive to that and and

1:57:38I say some of it is to you know talk

1:57:40about limits that was something that

1:57:42that seemed to put some people at ease

1:57:44about let's you know we're hearing like

1:57:46this isn't overwhelming other

1:57:47communities so let's let's frame that to

1:57:50to our staff saying hey you're not going

1:57:52to get a hundred of these you know first

1:57:54come first serve those first 10 you know

1:57:56places get permits and you We'll see how

1:58:00that works out. Um, we're not going to

1:58:02take away those first 10 permits. You

1:58:03know, after the first year, those people

1:58:05are in first in line. And the other

1:58:06thing is to think of, you know, you

1:58:09know, if we're asking people to do more

1:58:12inspections with giving more resources,

1:58:15maybe looking at the permitting fees to

1:58:16make sure that there's maybe a stipen.

1:58:18Um, so that's the type of thing to try

1:58:20to work. What? What

1:58:21>> do you want to send it to?

1:58:23>> What? Send it to what?

1:58:24>> Do you want to make a motion to send it

1:58:25in? I mean I just I just would say we I

1:58:28don't necessarily think it needs to come

1:58:29to rules and ordinance because I think

1:58:30the council's ready to move forward. I

1:58:32think what needs to happen is the work

1:58:35to get the you know see you know the

1:58:38board of you know health can meet in

1:58:40September and take this up to make sure

1:58:42that that gets in place and then also to

1:58:45work this issue through with

1:58:47inspectional services so that they know

1:58:49that they're you know inspector can you

1:58:53know be compensated for this extra work

1:58:56in some way or how that works out. So

1:58:57that that's kind of my my suggestion.

1:58:59Take a pause. I mean, if come, you know,

1:59:02November, if we're still a lot making

1:59:04process, I'm I'm happy to vote in favor

1:59:07of this, but we have a little bit of

1:59:08time, tap the brakes, get staff on board

1:59:11because ultimately it goes to them. Um,

1:59:13and um and and so how we work with them

1:59:16in this tough time when we're, you know,

1:59:18literally, you know, our police, you

1:59:20know, we're having to stretch our how

1:59:22our police patrolling, you know, our

1:59:24cemetery commission, um, every

1:59:27department stretched. And I think we

1:59:29have to think uh you guys got through

1:59:31the election Caroline. So I think it's

1:59:32something we have to think of that um

1:59:35when we have new ideas as a council in

1:59:37these tough times, we have to be

1:59:40thinking about staff. So that's really

1:59:42where I come like just tap the brakes. I

1:59:44mean I don't think we necessarily have

1:59:46to refer it to rules and ordinance, but

1:59:49>> So are you making a motion? So my m my

1:59:51my motion would be to table it for um to

1:59:54allow the board of health to take the

1:59:57step to go forward and adopt state

1:59:59regulations and then um and then ask

2:00:02that there be an effort to get the uh

2:00:05the inspectional services taken.

2:00:06>> Okay. So a tableling motion does take

2:00:08precedence but we do need a

2:00:09>> that would be my my suggestion. I'm

2:00:11happy to have that discussion or

2:00:12whatever but um that would be my

2:00:14suggestion. And I don't really think we

2:00:16>> do. We have a Do we have a second to the

2:00:18tableling motion?

2:00:22>> Do who has councelor Leong, you have a

2:00:25point of information?

2:00:26>> I do. Um I'm not sure if I misunderstood

2:00:29because kind of far away from me, but um

2:00:32the planning board actually did approve

2:00:33this with three regulations.

2:00:36>> I

2:00:36>> So So their their recommendations were

2:00:40>> a pilot program shall be established.

2:00:42Board of Health regulations must be in

2:00:44place for this one and they recommended

2:00:46no pickup shall be allowed.

2:00:48>> Okay. Now, I apologize. Yeah, I might.

2:00:51Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Go ahead.

2:00:52>> Yeah.

2:00:53>> To to my point on that is a couple of

2:00:56things that we did talk about. We did we

2:00:57did talk about permit fees. We've talked

2:01:00about all of that stuff. We talked

2:01:02about, you know, pre-arranged pickups

2:01:04versus just letting somebody, you know,

2:01:06pop their, you know, little

2:01:09loaves of bread out in their driveway.

2:01:11We've we've talked about all those

2:01:12things. Um I think it's it is very

2:01:15important for us to talk with the board

2:01:16of health, but we also have to

2:01:18understand is that we're in an economic

2:01:20crisis in this city and we need out of

2:01:22the box ideas to bring in new business

2:01:25into this city. And if we start with the

2:01:28smaller businesses and help them to

2:01:30build and help them to grow, I hope we

2:01:32get somebody that goes viral that, you

2:01:35know, Zach's department can say, you

2:01:37know what, maybe not having lines down

2:01:40the road in, you know, on your street,

2:01:42but hey, maybe we can help you get into

2:01:44your first brick and mortar. How can we

2:01:46do that as a city to bring that forward?

2:01:48And I'm fine if we want to meet again if

2:01:50we want to, you know, bring this back to

2:01:52economic development for further for

2:01:55further nuances. And I'm fine with that.

2:01:58But I don't think this is I think this

2:02:00is something that we need to move

2:02:02forward. 10 licenses. I'd be fine with

2:02:04that.

2:02:06>> There there's plenty the state of

2:02:08Massachusetts put so many regulations in

2:02:11place for this that we're not just, you

2:02:14know, letting do just anything. I just

2:02:16could uh could I just ask that um

2:02:19Michelle Romero come up because I'm

2:02:21confused. I'm I'm looking at an August

2:02:2322nd

2:02:25>> August 2000 memo

2:02:27>> and it's saying here planning

2:02:29recommendation

2:02:31>> um that the planning Oh, so this is just

2:02:34a recommendation the planning board.

2:02:37>> Okay, so I'm looking at the

2:02:38recommendation. Okay, so

2:02:39>> recommendation

2:02:41I apologize. I looked at the wrong

2:02:42>> Yeah, we have the final determination.

2:02:44The clerk has the final determination.

2:02:45>> I apologize. I I apologize on that.

2:02:48>> It recommends.

2:02:49>> So, I'm just gonna Sorry, I need to lean

2:02:51over. It It recommends approval as

2:02:54submitted, but subject to the three

2:02:56conditions that councelor Lewong just

2:02:57listed only if a pilot program is

2:03:00established, the board of health

2:03:01regulations are in place, and no pickups

2:03:03are allowed.

2:03:04>> All right. So, I guess my my thing would

2:03:06be to tap the brakes to allow the board

2:03:09of health to adopt their regulations and

2:03:13that way some licensing and and the the

2:03:15and the limits could be placed at the

2:03:18board of health. So, that that's my do

2:03:20we have any further discussion on the

2:03:22motion on the table?

2:03:23>> Okay. I had councelor Simonelli and then

2:03:25I'll go to you councelor McDonald.

2:03:27>> Thank you, Madam President. So, let me

2:03:29let me ask you this, Councelor Winsel.

2:03:30Would it be all right to uh instead of

2:03:33tableing it, can we put it in committee

2:03:36and discuss it? And I'll be honest with

2:03:38you, I didn't know we only had one

2:03:40health inspector up at the board of

2:03:42health.

2:03:43I thought we had a couple of them up

2:03:45there, right? I mean, I I I don't know.

2:03:47I'm just asking.

2:03:48>> I I don't know if the rules I mean, the

2:03:50council is supportive of this. So I

2:03:52don't though know if it really does

2:03:54anything to the rules and ordinance but

2:03:55I think what has to happen is the board

2:03:58of health um has to take the action to

2:04:00adopt the state things and in in their

2:04:04development of the mold and regulations

2:04:05they can set the limits and they can

2:04:09take care of some of these issues and

2:04:10how they do it. So like then then when

2:04:13that's done we can approve it.

2:04:15>> We could also enroll it.

2:04:16>> Yeah. and then wait for the board of

2:04:18health the board of health to meet in

2:04:20September and then it's we would have

2:04:22not ordained it at that point.

2:04:24>> I mean I I would go for that. I just

2:04:26because my thing is I just think if you

2:04:28table it then you got to discharge the

2:04:30paper.

2:04:31>> So uh I would second uh council's motion

2:04:34to enroll and then

2:04:36>> Okay. So are you withdrawing your

2:04:37tableing motion?

2:04:38>> I withdraw it and then we would enroll

2:04:39it and then

2:04:41>> uh you know have ordainment penned the

2:04:44action by the board of health. So

2:04:46>> Okay. We have a lot of lights still on.

2:04:47Does Can folks identify who would like

2:04:49to speak before we take up the enrolling

2:04:51motion?

2:04:52>> Okay.

2:04:53>> Amend it first.

2:04:54>> Okay. Thank you for that. Councelor

2:04:56McDonald, you are next in the queue.

2:04:57>> Yeah. So to this point, so we need to

2:04:59make an amendment based on the

2:05:01recommendation either from the planning

2:05:03board or from Zach. And then I also just

2:05:06wanted to say I I'm fine with this. I

2:05:09like this approach much better because I

2:05:10don't want it to appear as if we are not

2:05:12supportive when we are. And I'll be

2:05:14honest, these are important things to

2:05:16sort out, but they don't change my vote

2:05:17on any of this.

2:05:19>> And so if that gives us if that signals

2:05:21to our staff, yes, we are moving in this

2:05:23direction, we welcome you to come back

2:05:24and tell us what you need. But like what

2:05:26it's up to the board of health to adopt

2:05:28board of health regulations. I'm not

2:05:29going to like review them and and then

2:05:31put something in zoning because I don't

2:05:32like what they do. I don't think that's

2:05:33my job as a counselor. So the so anyways

2:05:37so I I would be happy to make the motion

2:05:40if that's help if that is helpful to add

2:05:42the recommended change that uh Zach

2:05:45provided about and I and I I'm not I'm

2:05:48not going to address the num whether we

2:05:50want to limit the the um uh

2:05:55number of initial licenses. I'm less

2:05:56concerned about that. Um and I don't

2:05:59want to have to tell the 11th business

2:06:00owner, I'm sorry, you have to shut down

2:06:02your business. So, but I'm happy to make

2:06:04the recommended amendment to say that

2:06:07this will take effect. This would be to

2:06:09take effect January 1.

2:06:13>> Okay.

2:06:15>> Let me put your um mic on.

2:06:17>> So, I'd like I'd like to if you're if it

2:06:19could be January 1 or whenever the board

2:06:21of health implements regulations,

2:06:23whichever is earlier.

2:06:26>> Can you repeat that?

2:06:27>> So, basically January 1st, 2026 or

2:06:29whenever the board of health implements

2:06:32regulations 27 earlier.

2:06:34>> Whichever is earlier.

2:06:35>> Okay. Yeah, I'm fine with that. As long

2:06:36as it's not like, well, if they just

2:06:37don't end up doing it, then we don't

2:06:39have an ordinance. But whatever is

2:06:41earlier is fine.

2:06:42>> Is that too early if they were to take

2:06:44this up in September or do you have

2:06:45concerns about that?

2:06:48>> I don't I would I mean, I would defer to

2:06:52inspectional services, right? I mean, I

2:06:54think if they have regulations in place,

2:06:56then they should be able to implement

2:06:58them. I I understand the concerns

2:06:59Council Winsow is saying. Um, I'm not

2:07:02sure about h an having an effect. I

2:07:06guess I would say if it was just setting

2:07:09an effective date of when the board of

2:07:12health approves something, I'm I'm not

2:07:14sure if you can do that with the zoning

2:07:16ordinance, I would defer to the law

2:07:17department or someone else. Uh, but

2:07:19since you're combining it with January

2:07:211st or this, I just don't know. So, I

2:07:24can't speak to that. Alternatively, it

2:07:27might be whichever is later so it so

2:07:30that it gives them definitely until

2:07:32January 1st. But if board of health does

2:07:34not implement by then, it would be

2:07:36January 15th or whenever they

2:07:38>> Well,

2:07:39>> because if they don't do that, then this

2:07:40never takes effect anyway,

2:07:42>> right?

2:07:43>> Yeah. I mean, I get the point about the

2:07:45legal considerations of whether you can

2:07:47condition something on something else

2:07:48happening. So, I think I want to keep my

2:07:50motion to the I I I appreciate and take

2:07:53your point, Councelor Mali. I think I

2:07:54just want to keep my motion to the

2:07:55recommendation from OSPCD. If we enroll

2:07:58it and sit it there and then they come

2:07:59back to us in a month and they're like,

2:08:00"Actually, we can't do this and we need

2:08:01a different thing," then we can unenroll

2:08:04it and change it and do it again.

2:08:06>> What I'd hate to have happen is our this

2:08:08the amended date or sooner or later than

2:08:11have them be the reason that they don't

2:08:12vote for it.

2:08:13>> Right. That's my [snorts]

2:08:15>> So I I think All right. You've you've

2:08:17explained it fine. Um, so we have a

2:08:20motion and a second by councelor

2:08:21McDonald and councelor Simmonelli to

2:08:24make the amendment. You want to speak to

2:08:25this? Okay, no problem. Thank you for

2:08:27letting me know.

2:08:28>> Councelor Cologne, you have the floor.

2:08:30>> Thank you. I wasn't going to because it

2:08:32was taking a long time, but I was going

2:08:34to recommend the same thing based on

2:08:36what councelor Lewong just said that

2:08:38our, you know, we're going by state

2:08:40regulations and things that um,

2:08:42councelor Taylor said. I have no problem

2:08:43voting this on the floor. Also, I think

2:08:45it's the the right way to go because the

2:08:47board of health is going to come in with

2:08:48their recommendations anyway. So,

2:08:50however you word it that way, just let's

2:08:52get it moving. Thank you.

2:08:55>> Okay. Yes.

2:08:58>> Do you want to speak to that now?

2:08:59>> I'm I'm asking if councelor McDonald's

2:09:03>> amendment

2:09:03>> amendment to take effect on January 1st

2:09:05is in addition to the other three

2:09:07amendments that being made by the

2:09:09planning board.

2:09:09>> It It is not. That was the only

2:09:10amendment I was making.

2:09:11>> Okay.

2:09:12>> Others can make other amendments. That

2:09:13was the one I was making. Okay. So, this

2:09:14is a motion to amend

2:09:18this paper

2:09:20to take effect January 1, 2027.

2:09:25>> Can we do a voice vote?

2:09:26>> We can.

2:09:27>> Okay. All in favor?

2:09:29>> I. Okay. Any opposed? That carries. So,

2:09:33the paper is amended.

2:09:35And we had a motion by councelor Leong

2:09:39to enroll.

2:09:42I have lost track of who seconded.

2:09:45>> Thank you, Councelor Taylor.

2:09:54>> And for this,

2:09:56we need

2:09:59>> I'm going to need eight votes.

2:10:00>> We need eight votes, but do so we need

2:10:01to do a roll call

2:10:02>> to enroll as amended.

2:10:04>> Okay. So, we need a roll call vote to

2:10:06enroll as amended. 63.

2:10:10>> Council Cologne Hayes,

2:10:11>> yes.

2:10:12>> Council Condan,

2:10:14>> Council Crow,

2:10:15>> yes.

2:10:15>> Council Laang,

2:10:16>> yes.

2:10:17>> Council McDonald,

2:10:18>> yes.

2:10:18>> Council Ali,

2:10:19>> yes.

2:10:19>> Council Sega,

2:10:20>> yes.

2:10:21>> Council Simmonelli,

2:10:25>> you got to vote.

2:10:26>> We're voting.

2:10:28>> Council Taylor,

2:10:29>> yes.

2:10:30>> Council Winslow,

2:10:31>> yes.

2:10:31>> Council President Lahan,

2:10:32>> yes.

2:10:33>> Okay. So, unanimously enrolled as

2:10:34amended.

2:10:35>> Enrolled as amended. Unanimously.

2:10:38Great. That's one.

2:10:39>> Congrats, councelor Lewong.

2:10:43>> Next,

2:10:47>> paper 372-26,

2:10:49communication from the planning board

2:10:51regarding CCP 325 2026, general

2:10:55regulations, non-conforming uses, lots,

2:10:57buildings, and structures in residential

2:10:59office, business, and industrial zoning

2:11:01districts, zoning ordinance amendments.

2:11:03This is a vote to receive the

2:11:05communication.

2:11:06Okay. Do I have a motion to receive the

2:11:08communication?

2:11:10>> Okay. A motion by councelor SEA,

2:11:12seconded by councelor Cologne Hayes. All

2:11:13in favor?

2:11:15>> I. That is received. Favor 325-26 be

2:11:19ordained by the Malden city council that

2:11:21the code of the city of Malden

2:11:2312.28.010E

2:11:26non-conforming uses lots, buildings, and

2:11:28structures is hereby amended as follows

2:11:30in the body of the paper.

2:11:33>> Okay. Thank you. Zach, are you up again?

2:11:35I think so.

2:11:36>> Okay. This will be quick back.

2:11:40>> All right. So, or my portion will be

2:11:43quick.

2:11:44>> Um, as part of so as part of the

2:11:48economic development package items, this

2:11:50is another piece that was brought

2:11:51forward uh it was also brought forward

2:11:53kind of in by inspectional services uh

2:11:56uh in that to allow for pre-existing

2:12:00non-conformities to expand by special

2:12:02permit. right now on the books. Uh if a

2:12:06use exists uh that is not allowed, it is

2:12:09a non-conforming use. Um there is no

2:12:13pathway for them to expand or or modify

2:12:18if they need to. So if you think about a

2:12:21successful business that wants to grow

2:12:22in place uh that may be in a zone uh

2:12:26that doesn't allow it, there is no

2:12:28pathway for them uh and they might seek

2:12:30to move somewhere else. Uh therefore the

2:12:34recommendation uh here is to allow a

2:12:38modification uh to those allowances that

2:12:40a non-conforming use may ask and request

2:12:43a special permit to grow.

2:12:46Um so again only by special permit and

2:12:49here is the the language. I know you

2:12:52you've had it before you, but but

2:12:54essentially it's removing uh the again

2:12:56that this um uh this provision that says

2:13:02if you are if you're not allowed use,

2:13:04you can't expand and saying no, you you

2:13:07can you can be extended or structurally

2:13:09altered for that same use or use allowed

2:13:12within that district. Um and it I think

2:13:15just go back I think these are some

2:13:17examples of some of those uses. you've

2:13:19got um multif family uh um housing

2:13:22that's allowed uh or that that exists in

2:13:25the city um in a in a non you know

2:13:29multif family allowed residential zone

2:13:31that this is one example of this

2:13:33non-conforming use or another example uh

2:13:35could be self- storage facilities

2:13:39that's it

2:13:43[clears throat]

2:13:43>> okay I see councelor Winsow

2:13:47>> um yeah I I know uh you this you know if

2:13:49we received the planning board report

2:13:51they they did recommend approving this.

2:13:54I know when this paper first came up the

2:13:56council um you know particularly you

2:13:59know in reference to the storage units

2:14:01which this council just a few years ago

2:14:05uh

2:14:07enacted a restriction on that that um

2:14:10that there was concern about being so

2:14:12broad about um this. So, I I re would

2:14:15recommend that we send this to rules and

2:14:17ordinance to um you know, it's one thing

2:14:19to expand, but is it like tripling the

2:14:21size of one of these businesses? I think

2:14:23that's the type of thing that you know,

2:14:25we're in we're in a comprehensive

2:14:27planning process. So, I I certainly

2:14:29understand that working with existing

2:14:31businesses and um you know, allowing

2:14:35them to you know, make some you know,

2:14:37necessary improvements to make their

2:14:40business efficient. But it's a whole

2:14:41different thing if you this is going to

2:14:44be the exception that swallows the rule.

2:14:46And my my suggestion is we we send this

2:14:49to rules and ordinance and ask our our

2:14:51planning staff and um inspectional

2:14:53services or and clerk's office to look

2:14:55at you know what has the city council um

2:14:59you know what uses have we banned since

2:15:01basically 2007 and evaluate that. And I

2:15:04say to create this reasonable balance

2:15:06between um you know sensible you know

2:15:10expansion and improvements and versus

2:15:12basically allowing essentially a whole

2:15:15new you know business there. So that's

2:15:18kind of you know what what my suggestion

2:15:20is to put some some guard rails on this

2:15:22so that um we um allow you know existing

2:15:26businesses to make improvements during

2:15:29the comprehensive plan development and

2:15:32then you know then really look at some

2:15:34of these zones um you know I think

2:15:37there's potentially you know you know

2:15:40along you know some of these zones we

2:15:42might want to do more um or do something

2:15:45different and I know in the discussions

2:15:47of storage units in particular. Um you

2:15:50know that's a kind of a low employment

2:15:54um thing that you know in some ways when

2:15:57you know when I was at the hearing when

2:15:59they were putting it in Ward six the

2:16:01their joke was oh this is a business

2:16:03that that you know focused its business

2:16:06model on divorce death and displacement

2:16:10which is really pushing people out of

2:16:11their housing. they um and and you know,

2:16:13councelor Ali, I know um you know,

2:16:16there's articles about this industry of

2:16:18really um is this something we want to

2:16:20build and promote in Malden and as we

2:16:22see um in other communities like

2:16:25Summerland and Cambridge, they're

2:16:26building much more valuable things in

2:16:29these areas. So, I just think we have to

2:16:31create the balance. I I so that's I

2:16:33would like this my my I would make a

2:16:35motion to refer to this rule ordinance

2:16:37and to sort of put some some type of

2:16:40guard rails on this to um make sure

2:16:42we're not um trying to you know take

2:16:46some you know quick quick uh you know

2:16:49things while we're excluding some even

2:16:51bigger things that could happen if we

2:16:53really are bolder in our zoning um in

2:16:56these areas. So that's my suggestion.

2:16:58Just not take what the market takes, but

2:17:00let's be bolder. Why why aren't these

2:17:03areas being developed to bolder things?

2:17:05So thank you.

2:17:06>> Okay. Thank you, Councelor Winsow. I'm

2:17:08going to go to I have a couple lights

2:17:09on. Councelor McDonald.

2:17:12>> Just quickly, my theme for the night is

2:17:14let's just go ahead and do this. So I

2:17:16would

2:17:18I mean I don't feel strongly, but like

2:17:20no, I will probably oppose referring it

2:17:22to committee and I think we should just

2:17:23pass it right now. And I would be happy

2:17:26to advocate against at the planning

2:17:28board expansion of storage facilities or

2:17:30other uses that I don't think are right.

2:17:32But I I don't have any problem with

2:17:33creating this as a possibility for

2:17:34special permits in the existing zoning

2:17:37code. I think that's under the overall

2:17:38theme of flexibility and trying to work

2:17:40with people and um you know create some

2:17:43new opportunities where there haven't

2:17:44been there before. So that would be my

2:17:46perspective.

2:17:47>> Thank you. Councelor McDonald.

2:17:49>> Uh we have one more light. Councelor

2:17:51Councelor Ali wants to speak to this.

2:17:54>> Um, would you mind explaining why the

2:17:56second paragraph I understand the first

2:17:57paragraph. I'm not fully grasping why

2:17:59the second paragraph was struck. Um, and

2:18:02I can't tell if it's making it more or

2:18:05less strict by striking the second

2:18:09paragraph.

2:18:10>> I would I would ask um uh Michelle

2:18:13Romero to come up because this was a a

2:18:15recommendation from ISTD.

2:18:18>> Thanks.

2:18:25Thank you, Michelle Romero. Um,

2:18:29this is actually not the paper that was

2:18:31filed what this looks like. So, what's

2:18:35being struck as the second sentence,

2:18:38so it begins change of use and ends with

2:18:40structural change. Um, this slide isn't

2:18:44correct

2:18:47in terms of what the council filed and

2:18:50what we held the public hearing on.

2:18:53So,

2:18:56it's not the second paragraph that's not

2:18:58being struck.

2:19:00It's the second sentence of the first

2:19:03paragraph. That's that's what's in the

2:19:05paper that

2:19:06>> maybe

2:19:07>> you sent for public hearing.

2:19:09>> Okay.

2:19:10>> Yeah. I think it's getting too late for

2:19:12me to figure this out either. I I would

2:19:14move to refer this to ordinance so that

2:19:16we can get this straight.

2:19:19>> Do we have a second?

2:19:20>> I'll second that.

2:19:21>> Okay.

2:19:22>> I would say this is unfortunate, but

2:19:24this was the exact same slide that was

2:19:26presented at planning board.

2:19:28>> Yeah, I

2:19:29consistent with the clerk's notes.

2:19:31>> Very small, but that's not the paper

2:19:34that was sent

2:19:35>> and that's not what the planning board

2:19:36recommendation was made on. It was made

2:19:39on the paper that you sent in 325-26.

2:19:42The paper that was referred

2:19:45strike,

2:19:46>> you know, tells you what if you have a

2:19:48copy of it, tells you what it is.

2:19:50>> We do actually have a motion on the

2:19:51floor already from councelor Winsow. If

2:19:53you want to second that to refer, we

2:19:54could take up that.

2:19:56>> It is getting quite late.

2:19:58>> I thought he said

2:19:59>> no, he's councelor Winsow made a motion

2:20:01to refer to rules and

2:20:02>> rules and ordinance. Just Yeah, that's

2:20:04all.

2:20:04>> And then would you like to second that

2:20:06council me? Thank you. Okay. Do we need

2:20:09a roll call that we do not do? Okay.

2:20:11What am I thinking? All right. We can do

2:20:12a voice vote for that. All in favor of

2:20:14referring to ordinance. I

2:20:17>> Any opposed?

2:20:18>> Okay. That's referred to ordinance.

2:20:20Sorry, Michelle. We'll have to invite

2:20:21you back to talk about it there.

2:20:23>> Okay.

2:20:24>> Yeah, we'll we'll figure out the

2:20:26confusion. Apologies.

2:20:27>> All right.

2:20:28>> The next paper is 373-26.

2:20:31Communication from the planning board

2:20:32regarding CCP 326 2026 medical center

2:20:36and license. Ma massage therapy salon

2:20:39zoning ordinance amendments. So we are

2:20:42receiving the communication.

2:20:43>> Okay. Do I have a motion to receive?

2:20:46>> Thank you, councelor McDonald. Seconded

2:20:47by

2:20:49>> councelor Taylor. All in favor?

2:20:51>> That is received.

2:20:54Paper 326-26

2:20:57be ordained by the Malden city council

2:20:59that the code of the city of Malden

2:21:0112.32.060 060 definition zoning is

2:21:04hereby amended by striking the

2:21:06definitions for medical center and

2:21:08licensed massage therapy salon in their

2:21:10entirety in inserting instead the

2:21:12following as is listed in the body of

2:21:14the paper. Okay. Oh, I don't know why

2:21:16the podium got turned off. Apologies.

2:21:21>> Oh, it's on.

2:21:22>> It's on now. Sorry, Zach.

2:21:24>> Sure. So, this is a pretty This is

2:21:26really in in working with inspectional

2:21:28services. It's to to allow um kind of

2:21:32modern uses uh that are being kind of

2:21:34classified as medical centers uh within

2:21:37the medical center definition um these

2:21:39health related uses you' see some of

2:21:41them here IV wellness botox injection to

2:21:43be just incorporated into the definition

2:21:46uh and making sure that uh you know like

2:21:48um licensed massage there there isn't

2:21:51overlap or conflict with other ones um

2:21:54and this is the language the these are

2:21:56the red line changes so I know I the

2:21:58language was read strike strike strike

2:22:00in its entirety but what is actually

2:22:02being proposed is fairly limited here um

2:22:06again so just to include these these

2:22:08uses that are that inspectional services

2:22:10being seen that that they're seeing and

2:22:12and and and so that if if people down

2:22:15the line uh leave and come and go they

2:22:18know that again these are inclusive and

2:22:20they are allowed Botox injections dermal

2:22:22fillers I wellness therapy things like

2:22:24that

2:22:27Okay, thank you. Any questions?

2:22:34>> Is this correct?

2:22:37>> Question

2:22:48this.

2:22:49>> Yeah. Oh, sorry. Councelor Winsow.

2:22:52>> I mean, normally we Yeah, we accept the

2:22:54committee report, right? So, have we

2:22:56done that yet? I don't know. Have we?

2:22:57>> We did.

2:22:58>> Okay. We just accepted them all. Okay.

2:23:00>> We just we we received the report and

2:23:02read the paper.

2:23:03>> So the the

2:23:05double check if I'm re on this one

2:23:07because it it's weird that what's in my

2:23:09email from August 20th doesn't seem to

2:23:13reflect the decision. So I apologize for

2:23:15that. But um here the planning board did

2:23:18um re recommend this paper be approved

2:23:20as written. So um that's the

2:23:23recommendation. I don't think there's

2:23:24any reason. This is seems to be a pretty

2:23:26straightforward update. So I don't you

2:23:28know so I I would say that we should

2:23:32>> Yeah.

2:23:34>> Okay. So we have a motion by councelor

2:23:36Crow

2:23:36>> to en roll as recommended.

2:23:39>> Seconded by

2:23:41>> second.

2:23:42>> I think I heard councelor Cologne Hayes

2:23:44first actually.

2:23:45>> Right.

2:23:48>> Okay.

2:23:48>> Okay. So this is a motion to enroll.

2:23:50Council Colon Hayes. Yes.

2:23:51>> Council Condan. Council Crow. Yes. Yes.

2:23:54>> Council Lewang. Yes.

2:23:55>> Council McDonald. Yes.

2:23:56>> Council Ali.

2:23:57>> Council Sea. Yes.

2:23:58>> Council Simmonelli.

2:24:00>> Council Taylor.

2:24:02>> Yes.

2:24:03>> Council Winsow.

2:24:04>> Yes.

2:24:04>> Council President Lahan.

2:24:05>> Yes.

2:24:05>> Okay. So, that passes.

2:24:06>> Okay. So, they're getting a little

2:24:08easier.

2:24:09>> Next order of business.

2:24:12>> Paper 370. Hold on a second.

2:24:15>> Yep. Take your time.

2:24:19Make a motion to suspend.

2:24:24>> Mhm. So, can you say that again?

2:24:26>> Make a motion to suspend docket rules

2:24:28for the purposes of oraining.

2:24:32>> Pretty straightforward.

2:24:35>> Motion to ordain.

2:24:36>> On a motion by council crow, seconded by

2:24:38councelor Ali to suspend rules um for

2:24:41the purposes of ordaining.

2:24:43>> Council clone Hayes.

2:24:44>> Yes.

2:24:44>> Council Condan, yes.

2:24:46>> Council Crow, yes.

2:24:47>> Council Lewong,

2:24:47>> yes. Council McDonald,

2:24:49>> yes.

2:24:49>> Council Ali, yes.

2:24:50>> Council Sega,

2:24:51>> yes.

2:24:52>> Council Simmonelli is not in the council

2:24:53chamber right now. Council Taylor,

2:24:55>> yes.

2:24:55>> Council Winsow, yes. Council President

2:24:57Lahan,

2:24:58>> yes.

2:24:58>> Okay, so the rules have been suspended.

2:25:01>> Do it.

2:25:02>> Okay. Motion to ordain. Okay. On a

2:25:04motion by councelor Crowe, seconded by

2:25:07councelor Sika to ordain. We'll call the

2:25:09role.

2:25:17Council Clone Hayes, yes. Council

2:25:19Condan,

2:25:20>> Council Crow, Council Lewong,

2:25:22>> Council McDonald, yes.

2:25:23>> Council Ali, Council Sega,

2:25:25>> yes.

2:25:26>> Council Selli is not in the chamber at

2:25:28the time.

2:25:29>> Council Taylor,

2:25:30>> yes.

2:25:30>> Council Winslow, Council President

2:25:32Lahan, yes,

2:25:33>> that has been ordained.

2:25:34>> Okay, that has been ordained. Thank you.

2:25:36Now we can move along.

2:25:40>> [clears throat]

2:25:42>> Paper 374-26

2:25:44communication from the planning board

2:25:46regarding CCP 3272026

2:25:49use regulations for club Lodge hospital

2:25:52business school motel hotel medical

2:25:54center recreation for gainful business

2:25:56secondary to principal or club large

2:25:59restaurant fast food service restaurant

2:26:01all other body art convenience store

2:26:03supermarket licensed massage therapy

2:26:05salon adult day health center kennel

2:26:09research and develop Velment and towing

2:26:10in residential office business and/or

2:26:12industrial zoning district zoning

2:26:14ordinance amendments. This is to receive

2:26:16the communication.

2:26:17>> Okay. On a motion by councelor Winslow,

2:26:20seconded by councelor Taylor to receive

2:26:21the communication. All in favor?

2:26:24>> I I the communication is received.

2:26:26>> Paper 327-26

2:26:28be ordained by the Malden city council

2:26:30that the code of the city of Malden

2:26:3212.12.030

2:26:33use regulations is hereby amended as

2:26:36follows.

2:26:40Okay,

2:26:40>> you have the floor.

2:26:41>> Sure. So, again, I'll be quick. As part

2:26:44of the economic development package of

2:26:46items, this was split out. We want to

2:26:48allow more uses by right. Special permit

2:26:51process is a deterrent. Uh, if we know

2:26:54that there are uses in certain business

2:26:56or industrial zones that make sense uh

2:26:58that can fill vacant storefronts, fill

2:27:00vacant spaces, we should allow them. We

2:27:02should either allow them by right or by

2:27:03site planer view.

2:27:06These are the changes that were

2:27:08recommended um by OSPCD. Um there are

2:27:11variety of uses. I'm sorry that it's

2:27:13small, but I know you you've had it

2:27:15before you. Um you can see for the most

2:27:17part either the these are uses that are

2:27:19allowed by special permit. Uh some in

2:27:22some cases they're not allowed. Um and

2:27:24the recommendation is to allow them by

2:27:25right uh or by site plan review. site

2:27:28plan review is a is the hotel use uh as

2:27:32well as supermarket um use um and the

2:27:37rest of them for the most part are are

2:27:39moving to allowing these uses by right

2:27:42um they range uh so I think one that I

2:27:46know has come up since I've started

2:27:48again and it was mentioned at the

2:27:49planning board public hearing is medical

2:27:52center um these are dental practice

2:27:53psychiatry offices um etc um they

2:27:57require require a special permit right

2:27:58now uh in all of our business uh and

2:28:02industrial districts. Um this we know as

2:28:05a deterrent I've I've taken phone calls

2:28:08uh again in my half a year that I've

2:28:10been here uh of people looking to locate

2:28:12and and kind of not moving forward

2:28:14because of the special permit. Um these

2:28:17are all uses that provide services to

2:28:19the community. They provide services uh

2:28:21to the residents and and beyond. And I

2:28:23think allowing them by right is is one

2:28:26way to signal to the market that that

2:28:28Malden is is ready for them. Thank you.

2:28:31>> Okay. Thank you. Any questions for Zach?

2:28:40Councelor Winslow. One second.

2:28:43>> Yeah, just Okay, I'm reading the correct

2:28:45section of the planning board report.

2:28:47Sorry Michelle for the other one, but

2:28:48this is so this um the planning board by

2:28:52unanimous vote did um recommend um

2:28:58the paper with do some disapproval

2:29:01mostly focused on um restaurants, fast

2:29:04food and um

2:29:07and and and that um so they recommend

2:29:11the disapproval of proposed amendments

2:29:13that will change special permit to Yes,

2:29:17for restaurants, fast food and and

2:29:19restaurant all other in highway business

2:29:22and industrial one zoning districts. The

2:29:24second thing was that um approval of

2:29:27amendments um for changing uh uh special

2:29:32permit to special uh site plan review um

2:29:36for restaurant fast food in col in in

2:29:40columns B and H for industrial one. And

2:29:44then um as well as that um for

2:29:47restaurants and all others in business

2:29:50highway and industrial one um and then

2:29:54since you're adding some site plan

2:29:56review the recommendation is and this

2:29:59would have to be go back to a ordinance

2:30:01and hearing would be to have um you know

2:30:04there's some site plan review

2:30:05recommendations up here but there's no

2:30:07site plan review committee that's set up

2:30:10to handle these. So create an ordinance

2:30:12that that creates a site plan review

2:30:15committee focused on you know those

2:30:17particular uses you know related to

2:30:19motel, hotels, supermarkets,

2:30:22restaurants, fast food restaurant all

2:30:24others um and set regulations. So that

2:30:27way um you especially these are uses

2:30:31that over time there's been a lot of

2:30:33community input on. So we will be saying

2:30:36yes but have the opportunity for

2:30:39neighborhoods to um plug in on those. So

2:30:42that's what the planning board

2:30:43recommendation was and um to um

2:30:49you know there would have to be that in

2:30:51the ordinance section um on restaurants

2:30:56that has a special permit view um

2:31:00requirement that's not would that would

2:31:02be inconsistent with the table. So we

2:31:04have to do that was not um

2:31:07[clears throat] part of the permitting

2:31:10you know the permit package that went to

2:31:12public hearing. So there's some question

2:31:13about whether we um have to amend that.

2:31:16Um and again just good practice would be

2:31:19to to um make sure that we change the

2:31:22section that specifically says you need

2:31:25a special permit for a restaurant to be

2:31:27consistent with whatever the council

2:31:29wants. So that's that's really mostly,

2:31:32you know, the thought is in some

2:31:34instances rather than than going from

2:31:36special permit to yes to go to special

2:31:39permit site plan review and um and then

2:31:42create that site plan review committee.

2:31:44So that's that's really what the

2:31:45planning board recommendation is. I

2:31:48don't know if you have any other

2:31:49thoughts or Michelle has any other

2:31:51thoughts, but that's the gist of what

2:31:52the planning board recommended, but

2:31:54otherwise approving it. So thank you.

2:31:56Great.

2:31:57>> Okay. Thank you, Councilw. Any any

2:32:00questions on that?

2:32:05>> Buddy awake.

2:32:07You want to refer to committee?

2:32:09>> Yeah, I mean I I I

2:32:11>> Yeah. So, um I think it would be

2:32:12probably good to refer this one to

2:32:14committee as well because there that's a

2:32:16lot of complicated changes happening on

2:32:18the table and is that a motion?

2:32:20>> Yeah. So motion to prefer this to

2:32:22committee to to discuss the

2:32:24recommendation and then

2:32:26>> make you know come out with specific

2:32:28amendments and actions. Thank you.

2:32:29Great.

2:32:29>> Okay. So on a motion by councelor

2:32:31Winsow, seconded by councelor Cologne

2:32:33Hayes to refer to rules and ordinance.

2:32:36All in favor?

2:32:37>> I. Any opposed?

2:32:39>> Yeah. And I mean if I could just make

2:32:42one other comment is is to ask you know

2:32:44when we schedule this that we get the

2:32:48amendments that that we in terms of the

2:32:52um you know site plan review committee

2:32:55and the um you know and and what we need

2:32:58to do to remove that conflict about

2:33:00restaurants. So we have that language so

2:33:02we can just um have that language and

2:33:05and then when we refer back we might

2:33:07have to have a re have another public

2:33:10hearing to get this done but well we'll

2:33:12discuss about what has to happen there

2:33:13or not but um so we can you know have a

2:33:16package that can go forward there or or

2:33:18split the paper and you know move

2:33:20forward on the things that aren't the um

2:33:22you know the related to restaurants and

2:33:25and approve the rest. So, we can discuss

2:33:27Scott in that committee, but I just

2:33:29asked planning staff to to work on that

2:33:31so we can figure out what best to

2:33:34expedite it. Thank you. Great.

2:33:35>> Okay. Thank you.

2:33:36>> Great.

2:33:36>> Sure. I didn't miss anything.

2:33:38>> I do have

2:33:39>> Okay,

2:33:41>> Zach, I think you're done. I

2:33:43>> think so.

2:33:44>> We appreciate you so much.

2:33:45>> Thank you.

2:33:47>> I think that is worth a round of

2:33:48applause. [laughter]

2:33:54Okay, next order of business.

2:33:57>> Um, paper 369-26.

2:34:02Whereas the city of Malden has an

2:34:03agreement with flock safety for the

2:34:05installation, operation, maintenance,

2:34:07and use of technology. And whereas flock

2:34:10safety data and other information

2:34:12concerning residents, visitors, and

2:34:13individuals traveling through the city

2:34:15have been questioned by residents. And

2:34:18whereas the city council has a

2:34:19responsibility to ensure that municipal

2:34:21contracts are administered in accordance

2:34:23with applicable law, public safety

2:34:25objectives, privacy protections, civil

2:34:28liberties, fiscal accountability, and

2:34:30the best interest of the community. And

2:34:32whereas a transparent review will help

2:34:34the city council and the public

2:34:35understand the contracts terms, costs,

2:34:38renewal provisions, data retention

2:34:40policies, information sharing practices,

2:34:43security safeguards, oversight

2:34:45requirements, and complaints or redress

2:34:48procedures. And whereas the city council

2:34:51believes that any use of flaw cameras

2:34:53should be subject to clear limitations,

2:34:56meaningful oversight, appropriate data

2:34:58protections, and regular public

2:35:00accountability. Now therefore, be it

2:35:02resolved that it is the sense of the

2:35:04Malden City Council that on behalf of

2:35:07the residents of the city of Malden,

2:35:09they wish to have a complete review of

2:35:11the flock safety program as presented by

2:35:14the city solicitor, police chief, Malden

2:35:18Police Community Advisory Council,

2:35:20Controllers's Office, and all other

2:35:22relevant city departments and officials.

2:35:25and that the said review shall include

2:35:27all contracts, exhibits, amendments,

2:35:30renewals, purchase orders, policies, and

2:35:32related agreements. And this was

2:35:35sponsored by councelor Cologne Hayes and

2:35:37councelor Ali.

2:35:39>> Okay, looks like I'm going to go

2:35:41[snorts] to councelor Ali for the paper.

2:35:44>> I'll defer to councelor.

2:35:45>> Okay, councelor Cologne Hayes,

2:35:47>> thank you very much. Um, so if he was

2:35:50here, I would be thanking the chief for

2:35:52coming. um he did provide a lot of

2:35:54information um that and we spoke on the

2:35:57phone a number of times. He was fully

2:35:59aware that we were going to go down, you

2:36:01know, this road and ask some questions.

2:36:03He's also prepared to come back um

2:36:05hopefully when we schedule um

2:36:08this the next meeting. So, the issue of

2:36:10flock has been on everybody's mind for

2:36:12some time. um I believe it first came up

2:36:14here and I'm sure it was before this but

2:36:16a lot of emails started coming through

2:36:18to the city council around January

2:36:19February um when residents and

2:36:22constituents began contacting us with um

2:36:25you know questions about safety of our

2:36:28flock surveillance cameras and data and

2:36:30at the time I reached out to Chief

2:36:32Cronin and asked him to provide some

2:36:35information. He um was in the process of

2:36:38transitioning but he did he still sent

2:36:40out the information. and I believe you

2:36:41all received it as well. Um, and it was

2:36:44super helpful. And then I also contacted

2:36:46Chief Gatcom because he was going to be

2:36:48taking over and said, "I'd still like to

2:36:50be, you know, looking into this

2:36:51further." And he agreed. So the

2:36:54information was helpful and it enabled

2:36:56us to um, as the the letter indicated to

2:36:59respond to questions um to our

2:37:01constituents, but we still kept getting

2:37:04questions about it. So, I figured as the

2:37:06months passed, additional questions um

2:37:09came up and most recently, I think a lot

2:37:11of this was spurred by people misusing

2:37:14the system. We've been hearing about it

2:37:16in the news and um the Globe just

2:37:19reported uh the Boston Police Department

2:37:22shifted from flock to a a competitor and

2:37:25the city council wasn't aware. So that

2:37:28brought up a whole lot of issues and um

2:37:31the Supreme Court there was a headline

2:37:33saying the Supreme Court lit a fuse

2:37:35under Flock's license plate camera

2:37:37empire. Um so with all of this being

2:37:41said, I figured let's be proactive um

2:37:43and take a look at this and this really

2:37:47is to just get more information. So, um,

2:37:50no, you know, nothing to do tonight

2:37:53aside from hopefully, uh, schedule an

2:37:55appointment where people can be out in

2:37:56transparency and listen, you know, our,

2:37:59um, constituents can hear from our

2:38:02public officials and our chief about

2:38:05what exactly is going on and be able to

2:38:06ask questions. Thank you.

2:38:08>> Great. Thank you, Councelor Colon Hayes.

2:38:10I will go back to Councelor Ali.

2:38:12>> Thank you. So yeah, I'd like to thank

2:38:13the the co-sponsor um and the community

2:38:16for helping us understand, you know,

2:38:18this rapidly changing landscape. Um you

2:38:20know, in preparation for this

2:38:22discussion, um when this was starting to

2:38:24come out, I reached out to both the

2:38:26current and former police chief. Um I

2:38:28reviewed some ACL ACL ACLU of

2:38:32Massachusetts resources that we have.

2:38:34Um, you know, I think we're just kind of

2:38:35here at the beginning of something and

2:38:37as the chief uh mentioned, you know, in

2:38:39back in 2013, there was a predecessor to

2:38:42this and at the time they were

2:38:44concerned. So, I think that I think that

2:38:45we all kind of understand that this new

2:38:47technology, whether it's AI or flock or

2:38:49the interface of those two things. We

2:38:51need to make sure make sure that

2:38:52[clears throat] we're doing something

2:38:54that's not having unintended

2:38:55consequences. Uh, kind of what councelor

2:38:57uh councelor Simmonelli was mentioning.

2:38:59Um, and this is definitely not a

2:39:00critique of Malden Police. I think that

2:39:02they have done a great job with building

2:39:05community trust and community policing

2:39:06and m it's actually and we can have all

2:39:09the controls that uh that make our

2:39:12police officers behave the way we expect

2:39:14them to. I think the challenge that

2:39:15we're facing is we we can't control how

2:39:18everyone else who potentially has access

2:39:20to the system behaves. And and so I

2:39:22think that's really the question here.

2:39:24Um, so I would hope based on the plan

2:39:26that that council president Lahan laid

2:39:28out, I think it would really make sense

2:39:29to have a more robust conversation

2:39:31around this in a committee the whole

2:39:33where we can invite all the different

2:39:34stakeholders in a way that is, you know,

2:39:36really informative in bringing it to a

2:39:39respectful dialogue, which I think is

2:39:40necessary. Um, and I've been really

2:39:42surprised how how bipartisan this

2:39:44conversation has been. Um, so, you know,

2:39:46with that, I would just move that we

2:39:47refer it to committee the whole. Uh, and

2:39:49I appreciate your time. Thank you. I'll

2:39:51try to fix the lights, too. I'll second

2:39:53that. [laughter]

2:39:54>> Thank you.

2:39:55>> Okay. Thank you, Councelor Ali. I'm

2:39:57gonna go to Councelor McDonald.

2:39:59>> Yeah. Thank you to the sponsors for

2:40:00bringing this forward. I think it's very

2:40:02timely and um I just I had a couple

2:40:06other things I wanted to ask related to

2:40:08the police community advisory council

2:40:09who did a public meeting about this in

2:40:12February um in response to concerns.

2:40:14Somebody and it wasn't me put out the

2:40:17FAQ that they requested from Malden PD.

2:40:20Um, and so I would love to ask that that

2:40:22be added to the record. It's also on the

2:40:23police community advisory council page.

2:40:25Additionally, the police community

2:40:27advisory council had gotten they got,

2:40:28you know, it was actually with Captain

2:40:30Gakham who had been talking with us

2:40:32about the the details of the agreement

2:40:33and so on. Um, and we spoke with a

2:40:36number of officers, but I'm I'm just

2:40:38appreciating it's now Chief Gakum who's

2:40:39in the position of explaining this. Um,

2:40:42they also provided us with a list. One

2:40:43of our key questions was around what

2:40:45communities Malden has authorized

2:40:47sharing, which happens through the app.

2:40:49And so they provided us with a list of

2:40:51those communities to the police

2:40:53community advisory council. It's 87

2:40:55municipalities in the state of

2:40:56Massachusetts. And I would like to

2:40:58forward that to the clerk to also be

2:41:00added to the record of this paper so

2:41:01that that information is available in

2:41:03another format as well. Um, and I would

2:41:06just like to ask that we make a a really

2:41:09nice invitation, which I'm happy to do

2:41:11because I'm the liazison to the police

2:41:12community advisory council to join us in

2:41:15conversation in that committee of the

2:41:16whole since this is um an issue that

2:41:18they they are passionate about and

2:41:20wanted to, you know, um, follow up with.

2:41:24And, uh, I will just say I I am not I

2:41:28mean, I'm not in favor based on what I

2:41:29know of the flock camera program.

2:41:31However, I understand that people can

2:41:32have a range of valid opinions about

2:41:34this. And I do want to recognize that

2:41:36even since the spring when we were

2:41:38having this conversation about flock

2:41:40cameras with Malden PD, two important

2:41:42changes that I I just want to note that

2:41:43I heard Chief Gekkham um talk about. One

2:41:46is that uh the in the spring they were

2:41:50holding data for 30 days, which means

2:41:52that the the police department, you

2:41:53know, with an authorized search could go

2:41:55back and look at what any car basically

2:41:56in Malden had done in the last 30 days.

2:41:58and that felt like a really unnecessary

2:42:00amount of privacy invasion for an active

2:42:03case, right? So, I appreciate the 7-day

2:42:06change. That's something that the ACLU

2:42:07had recommended. The other one was

2:42:09having a more um uh auditable trail of

2:42:13searches so that and and I think we need

2:42:15to see exactly what is in those logs and

2:42:18like tell me show me how the audit can

2:42:20happen in that, right? So, that level of

2:42:22detail I think would behoove all of us

2:42:24to be able to dig and ask questions. So,

2:42:25I appreciate the the invitation to talk

2:42:27more about that and see where the

2:42:29balance of this is and that I hope this

2:42:31signals this council being much more

2:42:33proactive about the use of surveillance

2:42:35technology and trying to be not just

2:42:37play catch-up with where these things

2:42:39need to go but really be uh more on top

2:42:41of emerging technologies and have an

2:42:42approach to that. So, uh I will be

2:42:45supporting the referral of this paper to

2:42:47committee of the whole and happy to

2:42:49carry that message that invitation back

2:42:51to the police committee advisory council

2:42:52if there is no objection.

2:42:55Okay. Thank you, council.

2:42:58>> Thank you.

2:43:03>> It's okay. We can follow up afterwards

2:43:04to make sure.

2:43:06>> Okay. Councelor Simelli.

2:43:09>> Thank you, Madam President.

2:43:11>> Um I I just wanted to add to this. You

2:43:13know, I think that uh if you don't mind,

2:43:15instead of the committee of the whole,

2:43:16maybe we should just uh send this to the

2:43:18public safety committee and uh hash it

2:43:20out there because I know there's a lot

2:43:22of questions on some things. I mean, I I

2:43:24if that's appropriate, you know, um

2:43:27that's what we have a public safety

2:43:29committee for and see if we can, you

2:43:31know, I know that the chief was here

2:43:32earlier and it's just the timing here.

2:43:35you know, he was uh you know, we

2:43:38couldn't ask many questions when he was

2:43:39up here doing public opinion and now

2:43:41we're taking it up now. And I know we

2:43:44want to send it to committee so we could

2:43:45take it up more. But again, I just think

2:43:47that maybe public safety probably be the

2:43:49best place for it to discuss it in the

2:43:52subcommittee and go from there. That way

2:43:54they we could talk a little bit more of

2:43:56you know,

2:43:58you know, what what the cam what the

2:44:00cameras do. You know, how does it

2:44:01benefit the police department? you know,

2:44:03was a big brother watch and I I know

2:44:05that, you know, councelor uh Bong and I

2:44:09have talked on many occasions about

2:44:11actually putting cameras in the parks.

2:44:14You know, I've got five parks in the

2:44:15neighborhood and, you know, I've had

2:44:16some serious issues and I've had uh

2:44:19Chief Cronin bring in a real

2:44:21sophisticated camera system that like,

2:44:24you know, it's, you know, I think they

2:44:26got one in um in Lowe's parking lot. You

2:44:29ever see it's got the lights on it, the

2:44:30blue lights, and they actually put it in

2:44:32both apartments as well at one time and

2:44:35some of the other parks because it could

2:44:37be a really good tool for law

2:44:38enforcement. Uh, you know, maybe not the

2:44:40flock cameras once we find out what

2:44:42they're really doing, but some kind of

2:44:44camera system in the parks. Uh, in case

2:44:47somebody gets hurt, uh, they can see it.

2:44:49If if something's going on there and

2:44:51where we making these cuts and future

2:44:54cuts, wouldn't it be, you know,

2:44:56advantageous for us to be able to have

2:44:58the police department, you know, if I

2:45:00call and say, I got to call that

2:45:01there's, you know, seven kids inside

2:45:04Lincoln Commons, you know, fat in

2:45:06trouble of some sort, that they can look

2:45:09right on the camera without even have to

2:45:10go there first, trying to confirm it

2:45:12right from the station and then give the

2:45:15officers that are coming onto the scene

2:45:17as much information as possible.

2:45:19possible, especially in this day and age

2:45:21because you don't know who's carrying

2:45:22what and who's doing what. Uh, so I

2:45:25mean, you know, so it could be it could

2:45:27be good. Uh, you know, but like I said,

2:45:28I know people get nervous big brother

2:45:31watching. I'm one of them type of people

2:45:32that if you're not doing nothing, you

2:45:34don't have to be worried about it. But,

2:45:36you know, other than that, you know, I

2:45:37got to protect my neighborhood and and

2:45:39the children in the neighborhood. So,

2:45:41you know, I just think that uh some kind

2:45:43of camera system would be beneficial and

2:45:45helpful to law enforcement, especially

2:45:47if we're going to start making cuts.

2:45:48Thanks. And and my motion would be to

2:45:51send it to public safety if it's cool.

2:45:54>> That Okay. Thank you, Councelor

2:45:56Simmonelli. I So, I think we I don't

2:45:58think there's any rule that we can't

2:46:00refer a resolve. I think we typically

2:46:02don't. I think we

2:46:03>> we would typically pass the resolve and

2:46:06then agree what our next step would be

2:46:08to schedule.

2:46:09>> I'm going to look to the clerk and say,

2:46:11>> "Yeah, I don't it I don't procedurally I

2:46:13don't know why you would refer this.

2:46:14You're going to either you either want

2:46:15this to happen or you don't. You're

2:46:16going to pass the resolve or you're not.

2:46:18If you refer it to a committee the whole

2:46:20now you're just voting

2:46:22>> at that meeting whether or not to pass

2:46:24the resolve. If you pass this resolve

2:46:26tonight then the instruction has been

2:46:28made that it is the sense of the city

2:46:30council that they want a presentation.

2:46:32So we will immediately get to work

2:46:33setting up the presentation.

2:46:35>> Um which is probably what we could have

2:46:37done to begin with but here we are.

2:46:39>> All right. So so that that's fine. That

2:46:40would be like a third choice, you know,

2:46:42because the resolve would just be a

2:46:43resolve and if you're going to send it

2:46:45to the committee of the whole or the

2:46:46public safety, what you're saying, madam

2:46:48clerk, is that just pass it right here

2:46:50so we can take future moves on.

2:46:52>> I think the idea is if we you pass it

2:46:54tonight, you are given the instruction

2:46:55that you wish for this to happen.

2:46:56>> I'm good with it.

2:46:57>> Whether it happens

2:46:59>> Yep.

2:46:59>> in full session of a committee of the

2:47:01whole or in a public safety, you can all

2:47:02discuss that.

2:47:03>> I'm fine with that.

2:47:04>> But if it's at a committee of the whole,

2:47:06it's here in the council chamber. It

2:47:07will be on TV.

2:47:09>> Right. the whole city will be able to

2:47:11benefit.

2:47:11>> Agreed.

2:47:12>> Yeah, I'm fine with you. You good? I'm

2:47:13fine.

2:47:13>> I think either one could work. My intent

2:47:15in suggesting committee of the whole was

2:47:17exactly what the clerk just stated. It

2:47:18gives a forum where the community can

2:47:20come to the chamber and be on television

2:47:22and we would invite the police advisory

2:47:25committee. We would docket all of these

2:47:26items that you've addressed

2:47:28>> and the chief of course and it would be

2:47:30a forum where we get all the information

2:47:31that's been requested here into one

2:47:33place.

2:47:34>> Yep.

2:47:35>> Okay. Thank you, councelor Simmonelli.

2:47:36Um, I'll go to Councelor Winsow. Did you

2:47:40speak to this already once? No.

2:47:41>> No, I didn't. Okay. Yeah. No. No. I

2:47:43appreciate the sponsors putting this

2:47:44forward. Um, you know, it's certainly

2:47:47been on the minds of a lot of people and

2:47:49it's it's great to see here hear that

2:47:51our police community advisory committee

2:47:53um has already been proactive and thank

2:47:55you councelor McDonald for sharing that.

2:47:57So, and as well as the Maldon police

2:48:00have been thoughtful in their

2:48:01implementation of this. So I think

2:48:02that's all encouraging but I think it is

2:48:05something that um you know this just you

2:48:08know we got to know as as a government

2:48:11how we are handling these new

2:48:13technologies. So I think that's very

2:48:15valuable that we are are very thoughtful

2:48:18and um we're going to be held to a much

2:48:21higher standard. I think one of the

2:48:22things that gets scary when you hear of

2:48:25I was just hearing um today about LGTVs

2:48:29can listen in on you or someone who

2:48:31reported that McDonald's had a 500page

2:48:35document on how they went to McDonald's.

2:48:37So, so this issue of being a

2:48:39surveillance society is something that's

2:48:42we as a government have to be

2:48:43responsible of and and but it also in

2:48:46introduces that this is happening in the

2:48:49private sector. So it it is uh let's set

2:48:52a high standard for how we might do this

2:48:55so that um but also asked that um the

2:48:59private sector got not get off the hook

2:49:01because um there's a lot of issues that

2:49:04uh private surveillance has. So thank

2:49:06you very much and looking forward to the

2:49:08the hearing. Thanks.

2:49:10>> Okay. Thank you councelor Winslow.

2:49:11Councelor Cologne Hayes. Yeah. Thank

2:49:13you. I just wanted to say um in case

2:49:16someone's listening from the the Malden

2:49:17Police Community Advisory Council. Um

2:49:20yeah, these an these um questions and

2:49:24FAQs are on their site, so you can check

2:49:26it out. I did try and I actually asked

2:49:28Lisa to help me out. For some reason, I

2:49:31couldn't find anywhere on the um city

2:49:35council's website an email for them. So,

2:49:38if you I was trying to invite them, so I

2:49:41appreciate it. if you could do that that

2:49:42would be great. Um and uh because I did

2:49:45want to make sure that we were including

2:49:47everyone um that had you know some stake

2:49:50in this and they did do some work. It's

2:49:52right there up on the site if anybody

2:49:54wants to check it out. Um that was it.

2:49:56Thank you.

2:49:57>> Okay. Thank you councelor Councelor Ali.

2:50:01>> I just as an aside councelor Winsow when

2:50:03you said LGTV

2:50:05I had to do a double take what you were

2:50:07talking about. [laughter]

2:50:14Now I know um so I don't know if maybe

2:50:16that it's after this conversation it

2:50:18should be you passing the resolve and

2:50:20referring it to either one of these

2:50:22committees but I think with what

2:50:23councelor Lahan has laid out um I think

2:50:25makes sense given the platform and the

2:50:27in and the concern. Um so however we

2:50:30want to move forward I know there's

2:50:31multiple motions on the floor um but I'm

2:50:33willing

2:50:33>> I actually don't have a motion from

2:50:34anyone. I think we just need a motion to

2:50:36pass.

2:50:37>> Motion to second it. We just need a

2:50:38motion to pass this resolve.

2:50:40>> So I would move to pass the resolve and

2:50:42refer it to a committee of the whole the

2:50:44conversation to a committee of the

2:50:46whole. Thank you.

2:50:47>> Okay. So on the motion by councelor Ali,

2:50:50seconded by councelor Cologne Hayes to

2:50:52pass the resolve subsequent to which we

2:50:54will schedule the committee of the

2:50:56whole. All in favor?

2:50:58>> I. Any opposed? Okay, that resolve is

2:51:01passed. Okay. So,

2:51:05next order of business,

2:51:06>> tabled papers.

2:51:08Ah, yes.

2:51:10Paper 321-26,

2:51:12petition of the Massachusetts Electrical

2:51:14Company EDA National Grid and Verizon

2:51:17New England Plan number 31120327.

2:51:22Um, shall I explain this? Do you want

2:51:24to?

2:51:25>> Please explain.

2:51:26>> Okay. So, the purpose of this

2:51:27>> the paper off the table.

2:51:28>> Thank you. Yep. We're going to start

2:51:29with that. Thank you.

2:51:31Do we have a motion to remove this paper

2:51:33from the table?

2:51:34>> 321-26.

2:51:36>> That would be me.

2:51:37>> Okay.

2:51:38>> Seconded by council.

2:51:40>> Okay. On a motion by councelor Seika,

2:51:42seconded by councelor Cologne Hayes. All

2:51:43in favor move to the table.

2:51:46>> I. Any opposed? Okay. That paper is

2:51:48removed. So, the purpose of removing

2:51:50this paper from the table this evening

2:51:52is that National Grid has withdrawn this

2:51:54petition because they're working on

2:51:55amending the plans as written originally

2:51:58in paper 321-26.

2:52:02So, what we'd like to do is just um

2:52:05discharge this paper, place it on file

2:52:07knowing that a new one is coming to us.

2:52:09National Grid representatives have been

2:52:11working with my office and they actually

2:52:13have submitted a new petition, but there

2:52:15were already mistakes on that drawing as

2:52:18well. So, they took the maps back.

2:52:21They're going to redraw it once we get

2:52:23the final actual correct petition. We

2:52:26will put it on the agenda for another

2:52:28public hearing. But this paper is

2:52:30essentially dead, which is why we want

2:52:32to remove it from the table and just

2:52:34place it on file to get rid of it just

2:52:36to discharge it.

2:52:36>> Motion.

2:52:37>> Okay. On a motion by councelor Seika.

2:52:40>> Seconded by councelor Cologne Hayes to

2:52:42place this on file. All in favor? I. Any

2:52:46opposed? Okay. That paper is placed on

2:52:48file.

2:52:48>> Thank you.

2:52:52>> I have a motion to adjurnn. Does anybody

2:52:53want personal privilege?

2:52:54>> No one's listening.

2:52:55>> I

2:52:57>> Okay, Council McDonald has something

2:52:58quick.

2:52:59>> I'm so sorry.

2:53:00>> It's okay. And councelor Winslow as

2:53:01well.

2:53:02>> Who wants to go to bed tonight?

2:53:04>> I just want to make sure that folks have

2:53:06on their calendar the Malden Hispanic

2:53:07Heritage Festival, which will be

2:53:08September 19th, 2026 from 12:00 to 4:00

2:53:11p.m. at Malden City Hall. And I just

2:53:13wanted to recognize Glattis, Sera

2:53:15Rogers, and Marilyn Omira who were here

2:53:17earlier in this meeting but are not here

2:53:18at this point. So hope everyone can join

2:53:21and I think they welcome um support and

2:53:24sponsorships if you feel so inclined.

2:53:27>> Thank you, Councelor McDonald. Councelor

2:53:29Winslow.

2:53:30>> Yeah, a couple things. There is uh that

2:53:32morning uh 10 to 4 on September 19th um

2:53:36rain date September 26th, there is going

2:53:38to be a craft fair at Trafton Park. uh

2:53:40people want to try and be in town and do

2:53:43a couple things that'd be great. And

2:53:45then um on s Sunday, September 20th, um

2:53:49Chinese Cultural Connection and Bike to

2:53:50the Sea are having their regular harvest

2:53:53moon ride, which usually just goes on to

2:53:55down towards Ravier and and Sus to enjoy

2:53:58that. And they have moon cakes, fun

2:54:00family ride. So encourage people to come

2:54:02out for that. And I just this isn't

2:54:05asking for a moment of silence, but um

2:54:07sometimes there's people in other

2:54:08communities that that impact us in a big

2:54:11way. I went to a very nice memorial

2:54:14ceremony for someone Kathy Ren who if

2:54:16you ever did the bike to the sea ride

2:54:18and you got to the Sus River, she as

2:54:20part of the Sus River wershed council

2:54:23for years was the person who organized

2:54:25the water stop. um she passed away

2:54:27suddenly and uh she was someone in Lynn

2:54:30that really um was an outstanding

2:54:33supporter and and made sure that was the

2:54:35difficult most difficult community to

2:54:37work with for the bike trail and uh she

2:54:40was there with bike to the sea all those

2:54:42years. So uh just sad to have her pass

2:54:44away. Mary Lester her her daughter's

2:54:47actually um been executive director of

2:54:49the Sagas River wershed council. So this

2:54:51is something that the connections we

2:54:54need to make in terms of climate action

2:54:56on the um you know the east side of town

2:54:59and um it was just you know just uh sad

2:55:03to lose her so I just say that but thank

2:55:05you very much. Great.

2:55:06>> Thank you councelor Winsow councelor

2:55:09Crow.

2:55:10>> Thank you madam president. Um two things

2:55:12actually. It looks like September 19th

2:55:14is going to be a very busy day in the

2:55:16city. So, um, former counselor Barbara

2:55:20Murphy, I think. Oh, were you going to

2:55:22say that?

2:55:22>> Yeah. No, you're

2:55:24the, um, is, um, having her annual fairy

2:55:28house festival at Pine Banks Park. It's

2:55:31from 12 to 4. Um, again, the same time

2:55:34as this and everything else. So, you

2:55:35know, you could check that out. Make a

2:55:37fairy house, you know, you know, get a

2:55:39prize, come here. Um, Dora St. Mton does

2:55:42a a fantastic um reading, you know, you

2:55:46know, book reading. So, it's a lot of

2:55:48fun in that day. Also, this Friday, as

2:55:52we mentioned earlier, is the 25th

2:55:54anniversary of um 911, and the um fire

2:55:59department is having their annual um se

2:56:02not celebration, their annual um program

2:56:06um at from 8:00 a.m. to 9 um 8:30 a.m.

2:56:10to 9:30 a.m. um at District 15 Station,

2:56:13which is across the street from Malden

2:56:15High School. Um, so everyone should come

2:56:17out and really um, show our support for

2:56:20all the people that have um, affected by

2:56:24911.

2:56:26>> Thank you, Councelor Crow.

2:56:27>> Thank you.

2:56:28>> Okay, Councelor Cologne Hayes.

2:56:30>> Thank you. I just um wanted to thank the

2:56:33uh, Irishamean. They put on a great uh,

2:56:36road race. There was a 5K and a 10K. Um,

2:56:39they've done this every year for so

2:56:40long. I've ran in it um a number of

2:56:43times and then took off for a while and

2:56:46just went back for the first time on

2:56:47Monday. So um super proud of that

2:56:50because it the donations um and the

2:56:52proceeds were going to the Malden

2:56:54warming center. So a bunch of us got a

2:56:55team together. I'm really happy that

2:56:57they did that because they said it was

2:56:58one of the biggest ones that they've had

2:57:00um in a while. So that's great. So put

2:57:03on your calendar for next year. And um I

2:57:06also wanted to thank uh Friends of

2:57:07Oakrove, Inc. They had a great block

2:57:09party. having so many new um folks

2:57:12moving into Mald and it was really nice

2:57:14to um see new families coming out and

2:57:17getting to know each other and hopefully

2:57:19we'll be able to um hand over a lot of

2:57:22the uh young um kids and family events.

2:57:26Um we've been going on we're going into

2:57:27our 20th year so we should have a lot of

2:57:30fun things um planned. Thanks.

2:57:32>> Great. Thank you, Councelor Cologne

2:57:34House. The lights keep coming on. I'm

2:57:36telling you, everybody wants to stay

2:57:37here all night. Councelor Lang,

2:57:40[laughter]

2:57:40[gasps]

2:57:41>> I just wanted to um give a a shout out

2:57:44to the Jewish community. Brashashana

2:57:46starts on Friday um September 11th going

2:57:49till um sundown on September 13th. It's

2:57:52their new year. So, blessings to them.

2:57:56>> Thank you.

2:57:56>> And all who celebrate

2:57:58>> and councelor Ali

2:58:00>> and I just wanted to thank everyone that

2:58:02came out to vote in the Democratic

2:58:03primary. Uh thank you.

2:58:06>> Okay. Well, we do have a motion to

2:58:09adjurnn on the table. Do we have a

2:58:11second? Okay. Seconded by councelor

2:58:13Taylor. All in favor? I. We are

2:58:16adjourned at 10:11.

2:58:19>> All righty. Thank you.

2:58:21>> That was that very exciting season

2:58:24premiere.

2:58:24>> Oh my goodness.