2026-09-28 - Public Services Committee

03:06Thank you. All right. So, it is now

03:142026. And this is the Cape Cod Regional

03:18Committee on Public Services. Pursuant to chapter

03:23the Barsville County Assembly of Delegates.

03:27conducted via remote means only in accordance

03:31may watch the meeting through live real-time

03:38county. A public participation guide

03:41advance at www.capec.gov. The county of Barcel

03:47its programs or activities on the basis of race,

03:52sex, sexual orientation, gender identity, or

03:56anti-discrimination laws and regulations.

04:00disabilities are available upon request.

04:04please contact Justina March, Barcel ADA

04:12Call 508-375-6646 or visit www.capecod.gov.

04:18Members of the public may also attend the

04:23the website as well. Please note that the

04:27take official action on any item on the agenda

04:31action by the full assembly of delegates.

04:36the discretion of the chair. Uh before I

04:42lot of people on and a lot of percentage that

04:46recognized please keep your camera off. Um

04:52please don't participate in deliberations. We

04:58you don't mind madam chair I'm gonna call

05:04All right. Do we have Delegate Fuller

05:15and uh Chair Gassin, are you

05:19restarting your computer? You're

05:21my computer to restock. All right. Uh

05:33Delegate King, are you there? I can see

05:37you might be frozen. Or maybe I'm

05:41Delegate Frederickson is an alternate.

05:49Delegate Frederickson, are you here? Oh,

05:55And uh Delegate Tai. Delegate Samson.

06:02I believe you miss Delegate Samson. I did

06:07two alternates. Um, I'm I'm going to once we get

06:14out to Delegate Fuller. I did expect him here,

06:20a regional administrator on the call as well. Uh,

06:27yeah. and and I and I you know if Delegate Killian

06:32off just for clarity that'd be great. And what

06:38this point? Uh you know while I figure out my

06:45with the fact that we should probably receive

06:48I would like to turn it over to our regional

06:53considerations given the discussion we've had

07:00proposed ordinance. That way we can hear them

07:08All right. All right. Thank you. Um, and I

07:16a uh brief uh memo. Uh unfortunately, I only

07:22uh so we're not going to have a quiz uh on my

07:30a on a 30,000 foot level. I have a few uh things

07:37uh let the the committee deliberate. Um, one,

07:46in order of importance, but, uh, I like to number

07:53uh, just just obviously, you know, this is

07:58uh, the duplication of, uh, stuff that's already

08:05I appreciate the reason for the ordinance uh

08:11I do uh look at it from a staff's point of view.

08:17uh and we have very capable, very knowledgeable

08:25and we also have staff uh that are not um uh very

08:33wide range of areas. So, so when I look at the

08:39the commissioners had adopted a while back, I

08:44they would interpret it. And I'm I'm concerned

08:51uh be able to differentiate uh or reconcile one

08:59resolution. Um and that confusion you know while

09:05legality issue here. It's really just, you

09:12of uh from from a staff perspective, you know,

09:20and maybe confusion about about which document

09:30the use of the word judicial warrant um is uh

09:40um the the potential problem there is uh is

09:48uh usually goes with administrative uh warrants.

09:54not, you know, I'm certainly not um not uh saying

10:02it could be perceived uh that provision could be

10:09we have a fair amount uh and I've mentioned this

10:14that comes through the federal government uh in

10:20grant agreements. uh we're seeing increasingly

10:28will do in the event of uh federal uh federal um

10:36by federal rules. So so we may have a conflict

10:42federal uh federal funding. Um let's see. Uh three

10:57I think I think I analyzed the u the ordinance

11:05are a number of areas where uh the ordinance uh

11:12uh commissioners. um those oper you know if you're

11:18should be assigned to to the county administrator

11:27uh there's uh a requirement I believe in the um in

11:37that's recorded uh that those recordings are uh

11:44uh but they need to be uh preserved and then

11:51uh potential problem there around Massachusetts

11:58sort of flag that as something to take a look at.

12:05there are there are some exemptions to the public

12:10in this case, but if there's an ordinance that

12:15then then you know that that may put us in a bind.

12:22recording picks up um something that has to do

12:28don't want uh to be uh necessarily made publicly

12:36of the mass uh public records law exemptions.

12:48sort of references back to what I talked about

12:53the ordinance says that you know any contracting

13:00outside parties needs to impose uh you know some

13:07might include leases, licenses, agreements, uh, or

13:15jeopardize some of our federal funding stream.

13:22you know, we want to strike out a bunch of

13:27um, usually when you get a federal contract,

13:33don't and you don't take the the funds. Um so that

13:44the courthouse provisions. Uh it it gets a little

13:51district uh both courts. Uh deeds and and probate

14:00now is empty but when superior court's in session

14:06access uh all of them can you know fall under the

14:17um in many cases we right now especially since

14:24very um much with the court staff and to give you

14:34of uh county space in First District. First

14:38District but also a good good chunk of Superior

14:46it behind a a guarded um door. Um same with deeds.

14:57it working uh out of the deeds building which

15:03Uh so there's there's a lot of u space there

15:13uh my concern there is that uh you know where the

15:22technically. Um, you know, again, I don't want

15:28see or witness an interaction or intervene in some

15:34start going through a process to identify, well,

15:41so, so I just sort of highlight that uh for your

15:49a practical matter we have very little uh publicly

15:57um you know superior court uh building is empty

16:05accessible um the uh our finance department and IT

16:14locked a locked uh office uh space. Um Dredge um

16:27this point and uh and Children's Cove behind

16:34really when when I asked uh Paul Rosala to to do

16:43at least with the with superior court sort of shut

16:51is public is literally the entry front entry of

16:58entry uh space. Um, and I point out that doesn't

17:07uh, is shared parking with the courts. Most of

17:12but in terms of of, uh, interior space, uh, we

17:19interior space. Um, so those are those are just

17:26I I apologize for getting this to you on on very

17:34um digest it if you have any questions about it.

17:40you know, any suggestions on uh you know,

17:46needed. So, with that, I turn it back to the

17:55Thank you. Um just looking over the memo, I

18:01I've got a couple questions. Um but in general

18:10to be considering some amendments which I think

18:15I'm happy to consider more amendments. Um

18:21um was we postponed um consideration of this

18:27assembly. Uh there's a number of amendments that

18:32we have this memo in front of us. The goal today

18:38fingers crossed, or the consolidated amendment

18:46uh in front of the full assembly at our first

18:50recommended amendment leave this committee that we

18:57other possible changes um in front of the full

19:03today. Um I'm gonna I have a couple questions.

19:09charter and reference that. So that might take

19:14delegates on the committee have questions,

19:22Thank you, Chair Gesson. Um, first I just

19:28do anything worrying about getting federal

19:33not going to get federal funds. It's already

19:37that we should be getting from FEMA to cover

19:44state so chances of us getting money right

19:50um what I'm confused about, so you say

19:58Um but doesn't the Protect Act prohibit

20:07um area? And did the did the uh commissioners

20:20Uh that's a good question.

20:23um does include parking areas and my point

20:28though we we don't have a lot of interior

20:34space in terms of parking. So that that was

20:46Perfect. All right. If there aren't any

20:50I'll I'll raise a couple looking at this memo. Um,

20:58is the overlapping authority of an ordinance,

21:03the legal obviously without a doubt that

21:11this ordinance and really any ordinance is I would

21:17assembly passes and see that as their directive.

21:22any law on the books. Um the ordinance right now

21:28should be directed to promulgate regulations but

21:33or the commissioners to establish regulations

21:40you need more let us know as we're doing talking

21:46and and understand it I wouldn't expect anyone on

21:51that's you know that's what I need to do. I would

21:57to look at the ordinance and then decide what

22:03in order to be in compliance with it. Is that

22:09makes sense. I mean, that makes perfect sense. um

22:15put in a position where um you know they have

22:21I mentioned you know see an incident and then have

22:25resolution try to compare the two. I think I think

22:31think really and the intent of this and and we can

22:36there's a way to sharpen it but the intent of this

22:42you to create regulations that then reflect what

22:48uh, then talking about the judicial warrant

22:54saying, uh, I'm not nervous about this because and

22:59I promise getting your opinions on a couple,

23:05looking to uh introduce is that nothing and which

23:12that nothing in this ordinance shall require

23:17interfere with or physically impede a law

23:21authority. And if there is actually any concern

23:28whatever it is they may use actually under federal

23:35course that's something we're going to leave up

23:40such a concern, like this ordinance doesn't get in

23:47Really the reason judicial warrant I think is

23:54because the judicial warrant is what allows them

24:00rules beyond what they're authorized to otherwise.

24:07used so regularly in here is specifically

24:12whatever policies that you elaborate on. Um, and

24:19that that amendment that would would be sufficient

24:24it's not a judicial warrant doesn't mean you

24:31the amendments, the ordinance speaks to it, but

24:35doesn't mean you have permission to go beyond

24:40obviously that's something for for you to

24:45you direct staff. Um, and and skipping ahead,

24:52up to the executive branch, right? It's

25:00assuming any responsibility to enforce or

25:05them with staff. Um, and then the last question

25:14to um I don't know if you called it that like the

25:20that you had of should the assembly be directing

25:28the amendments that we're going to be considering

25:33written from directing the administrator

25:39mind that to my mind right now that makes mo the

25:47um in the executive powers that the role of

25:52is to cause this charter the laws and the

25:58and administration of Cape Cod regional government

26:02we see in the federal constitution. The same

26:06power of the executive branch. It goes through the

26:11is to cause ordinances to be effectuated. Um,

26:17is more appropriate for us to draft an ordinance

26:23such through you rather than us directing you

26:33Um I I don't I don't disagree with that analysis.

26:39I'm looking for in my memo is just is clarity. So

26:45long as it's it's clear u and obviously within

26:51so forth. Um, but it it's if if if you and the

26:58um, that's that's really all I'm looking for.

27:04also helps staff. Um, and it also helps you. So,

27:12really. It's just clarity. Absolutely. Well,

27:23Yeah, thank you. Um, I I my biggest concern are

27:30think we might have addressed that in some of the

27:35because I just don't want this to be seen

27:41that is a concern of mine. Um, and I think we're

27:47uh we choose to um I have is this something uh

27:59we come up with our amendments today, whatever

28:06letting one of our attorneys take a look at this

28:14Um, well, I'm never going to never going to advise

28:24but um but you know, hopefully what I've laid

28:31The short answer is yes. I think, you know, when

28:35something that you think is going to uh get

28:42certainly you want to make sure that that whatever

28:46you know, sort of legal muster. Um hopefully you

28:53uh um create full employment for lawyers but uh

29:01that you can look at and then if there are things

29:06ordinance proposed ordinance then then you've got

29:14memo is not meant to be a legal a legal uh memo

29:21so I guess now I've made it a very long answer,

29:28uh a recommended uh ordinance then sure it

29:38Thank you delegate Samson. So if if I can I can

29:47I think later on during the day but but I this

29:53it now. Um it's very important that the staff have

30:04not be calling the commissioners or the delegates

30:12that's there all the time and if if something

30:19that he be the the appropriate person to put any

30:29uh position and his interest in employees.

30:38confuse the intent of this proposal. It's not

30:47our employees uh accountable if they uh because

30:55guidance because of a governor's executive order

31:07should perform their should should develop

31:14um Frank and I did have this conversation. I don't

31:22clause in a policy about uh employees bargaining

31:35it. That is contract uh contract language law

31:46we'd be setting a whole new standard for ourselves

31:54County. So for every county and every town in

32:04absolutely recommend that we do not include that

32:14I appreciate that, Dansson. Um, and

32:18there purely for the sake of getting to it

32:21Delegate Hampton, is in front of everyone.

32:26but point taken. Um, with that, um,

32:32uh, who are our seated voting

32:39I had heard that Delegate Fuller would be with

32:45vice chair, uh delegate king, delegate

32:52Frederickson or delegate Tai that you choose

32:59he shows up. I did reach out to him. I did

33:04Mr. Chair. I appreciate Delegate Tai. As long

33:09amendments to this than Delegate Frederickson has,

33:15the committee uh this time around uh not going

33:20to pitch his amendments. I concur. Okay. Thank

33:28then is seated for this committee in place of

33:36should approach this. Um, I will share my screen

33:46Um this red line uh for common understanding is

33:53delegate Frederickson's amendments as well as my

33:59with him um on things that um you know co-spon

34:06this committee I felt were most German to discuss

34:14my screen with them. the way to avoid unnecessary

34:20is we'll go subsection by subsection um discuss

34:28has discussion on them or would like to see the

34:36I'll incorporate that change that you want to

34:41on to the next subsection if folk if there's any

34:49of uh subsections that have multiple points

34:55the roll calls for the end. Um rather than taking

35:00subsection by subsection. In essence uh what I'm

35:09Can everyone see the proposal?

35:17Got it. Uh, what I'm saying is don't feel free to

35:24go, but we won't take any votes. And then tell

35:31and we won't we'll save any votes on the actual

35:36power through a bunch of roll calls uh without

35:43Fantastic. Um starting off with the

35:50of the ordinance from an ordinance ensuring

35:56federal immigration enforcement to simplify it to

36:01federal immigration enforcement. Think it's

36:06but happy to. Is there any discussion

36:17Moving on to the next one. Um section B uh

36:31uh so instead of saying establish enforceable

36:37Um, and rather than saying the purpose is

36:43it says the purpose of this ordinance is to

36:47services in connection with federal immigration

36:51and state law. I think again it just clarifies any

37:01Um, the next subsection I'll jump to. Also,

37:07u currently have amended language. If there's

37:12please feel free to raise your hand. Um,

37:18to be a brand new section that gets added. It

37:23authorize a county employee to obstruct, interfere

37:28officer acting pursuant to lawful authority."

37:35it consolidates um that caveat. Rather than that

37:42be there at the very beginning for clarification

37:50Perfect. Uh, I'm going to take no hands

37:55or concerns. Um, jumping past the definitions.

38:08dog. Just one thing. Hey, Dan. Very minor in

38:13alphabetical. I would, that's my how I would

38:18them alphabetical at some point for sure. Any any

38:28Uh m uh Mr. Chairman, can you

38:39purpos uh in section one? Yeah. the the

38:46require or authorize the one you just

38:51the purpose to me and going off what the

38:56I think the intent behind this proposal is

39:02right? We want to set guidelines and we want to

39:07County with immigration enforcement. Um, and we

39:14um in a way that the administrator can spell

39:20and I think this provides guidance to the

39:26you know, whether it's in the contractual concerns

39:32with immigration enforcement, that we're not

39:37county employees is to get in the way of lawful

39:43but I I think at the same time, it doesn't

39:53Yeah.

39:59I mean, a count a county accounting employee is

40:04is lawful. I see the word lawful. Okay. Yeah.

40:09them in a bind. I see what you're saying. So

40:15requirement that if if it's not lawful, they

40:33what if we struck acting pursuant to lawful

40:37concern about making them on the fly

40:42Um and strike uh obstruct or interfere

40:58as in

41:06Oops. Would that be addressed concern? Well, leave

41:19obstruct, interfere with, or physically

41:25we don't want to require the staff to do anything,

41:36the fact that we are not requiring the staff

41:44not our monkeys. And that um and that makes it

41:52impede a law enforcement officer whether what

41:58you know, I mean, if ICE goes bashing into the

42:06I don't want staff to feel like they have to

42:14I think that's a little little more neutral.

42:19if we're if we're cutting this part down and we're

42:25there's going to be room for interpretation when

42:30important to strike the words obstruct interfere

42:37nothing. This ordinance shall require a

42:40law enforcement officer because I disagree.

42:46here's my pitch for it is um one could conrue not

42:55right? Are you or not letting not allowing you to

43:03right? And right, this ordinance is requiring you

43:10physically. Not physically. But see, that's why

43:21um if if it would be really nice if the staff felt

43:33you know, an a request from ICE, but um but I

43:44to the employees that we are not requiring them

44:01but we in nothing in this ordinance, right? That's

44:11board of commissioners are going to come up with,

44:19So, I just think we should somehow I will say, you

44:27that makes me cranky. I will say I'm still

44:33right? Like obviously there's been a lot of

44:37it when we get to the implementation sections of

44:42commissioner's responsibility to implement it.

44:47body. Ordinances are the rules, right? Like they

44:53county. Um I think there's nothing wrong with, you

45:00pod A to p, right? like the assembly does have the

45:08obstruct and interfere with are just too broad to

45:14when then the whole ordinance in essence to some

45:22directing county employees like I think it helps

45:27what if a county employee receives an email

45:31information that you have and they say no got it

45:41this is leaving it like this. Nevertheless,

45:48the committee if this is something that we're

45:55Okay, makes sense. Now, um I think I was here. Um

46:06to what um section 3 subsection A uh essentially

46:16the purposes of staging, processing, detaining or

46:21civil immigration enforcement except pursuant to

46:28it we listed some examples. All I did here

46:34to so that the examples are examples. I think

46:41saying in the first sentence. But I don't think

46:45it to the assembling, deployment of personnel,

46:50etc., etc. Questions, comments,

46:57um, this is an an example of something that we're

47:04in subsection B is getting away from directing

47:11rather putting it in language that allows the

47:18well craft regulations. Here what we're saying

47:25shall deny access to any non-public area. Instead

47:33non-public areas of county property shall be

47:39immigration enforcement officials seeking entry

47:44shall be prohibited. Right? So rather than

47:50directing an affirmative action, we're instead

47:56prohibited. How the administrator implements it

48:04Questions? Yes, Delgard, you're muted. Not

48:14um what you sent and it's different so I just

48:43again um got rid of a section here which talked

48:48county council and essentially I think

48:54as to what to do if somebody comes and

48:59shall exercise discretion inconsistent

49:05Um next

49:10Um, this section existed to clarify that

49:18construed to restrict access to public areas

49:25um by what who uh we're we're talking

49:33to say that you know this ordinance

49:39state or local law enforcement officers to

49:43open to the public. I think this is more of

49:58Um, County again um this is not a substantive

50:08it does change um it from being an affirmative

50:16shall in this instance to simply a rule which

50:23questions. Skipping further ahead to

50:32and I touched on it with the conversation

50:38it's the first of several where we're changing

50:44etc. or create regulations to the board of

50:50regulations be created or in this case signage

50:57more in keeping with how the charter would have

51:03Uh and we're instead creating a requirement

51:08directing the administrator to do so. Doesn't

51:22Now, jumping over to section

51:39this essentially expanded the term

51:42document any known civil immigration enforcement

51:48enforcement means in much more thorough

51:57Yeah. Uh on 8A um let me make sure I got the

52:09transmitted to the assembly of delegates.

52:14our authority. Uh it's up that should go to

52:25I'll I'll open it up to other delegates on the

52:27committee before I Delegate

52:37that go to the county commissioners or should

52:43mean the the county commissioners are not going

52:52anything like that. That's going to be the

52:59both sensible. Um, I think my interpretation first

53:0714 days. I would hope the administrator would know

53:12day-to-day basis. I think this allows for several

53:18don't think the documentation then goes directly

53:23electeds. I think there the administrator would

53:29this obviously sends it to the administrator

53:34the administrator to share that information uh

53:41delegate Richardson's amendment yes or no the

53:49Yeah, I think that's where one of those areas

53:53the between the assembly is pretty clear. We do

53:59over the commissioners and the the administrator

54:06Where it gets a little confusing is that little

54:11uh has uh said like which one does it go

54:19uh the the um commissioners? And it makes

54:24everything first of all and he would uh

54:29commissioners at some point. Would Delegate

54:36clarify it for you? Uh I I think it would

54:44I'll get harder.

54:49Um, I was just going to say, yeah, I mean, it it

54:56Um, uh, I I'm afraid documentation makes it

55:06um just because I um you know if there's actual

55:17something occur that um Michael would have quite

55:26work with and paperwork and all that. So I think

55:35to information, it means that Michael will or

55:45please God, let it stay, Michael. Um that uh the

55:55no less than 14 days. No sensible Um, I added

56:02be transmitted. So, I think that clarifies that

56:07but like at least let us know that you're that

56:12something. Great. Thanks. Um, and then to Delegate

56:19believer that the assembly should be included

56:25something is happening. Um, and then we'll get to

56:30not in in subsection C. Uh, but I do think uh I

56:43representing our community. We're we're our

56:48Um, and and I think it's important if there is

56:54concern these days, uh, for us to at least be

57:00I think that's sensible. Um, it doesn't direct

57:08be directed by any members of the assembly, but I

57:12to a meeting of the assembly and say something

57:21I'm okay with the notice. I I don't think we have

57:29us know at a meeting that's that's fine. Thank

57:39language. Um it's shorter in language, but but the

57:458 is again, we're no longer directing the the

57:51We're directing the commissioners to cause that

58:02Um, this subsection C I think addresses a concern

58:09does uh merge well with the change that delegate

58:15putting a 14-day clock on um publishing

58:23the documentation we talked about. It instead

58:30shall be preserved and made publicly available in

58:36Uh whatever specific laws apply to that specific

58:44the timeline in case it is unreasonable and b u

58:50raised with privilege information or or anything

59:00Seeing no questions, uh bouncing to uh

59:10that it's the commissioner's responsibility not

59:16and enforce this ordinance. Um not the assemblies

59:26um it's the board's acting through

59:35um establish administrative policies,

59:40to implement the ordinance. Wow,

59:43I'll tell you that. Um but with that uh the one of

59:53um consistent with applicable federal

59:58the administrative code and applicable collective

1:00:04obligations. I think this touches on uh some of

1:00:10So Delegate Samson, if this is something you

1:00:19the other paragraph taken out? No, no,

1:00:22it's still going to be in section 10.

1:00:32Here it is.

1:00:45I'm just I'm not sure why you would put that into

1:00:47a policy. We don't we don't have

1:00:56I'll I'll leave it up to Doug Frederickson the

1:01:05employee issues uh but he was a wonderful police

1:01:13that to me is important, but I can live without it

1:01:22assembly when we're putting these things together

1:01:29effect doesn't mean there are other consequences

1:01:35When our employees read this, I want them to feel

1:01:42supervised more than they should be and and

1:01:50them because of something we did. Um, now it's

1:01:58labor relations agreement. some are non there are

1:02:04etc that have different things that are already

1:02:10just a a flag to say that hey when we do these

1:02:17be the subject to this this law this countywide uh

1:02:24affects them. So, I can certainly live without

1:02:30uh are important to me. Appreciate that,

1:02:42that I I don't think that belongs in

1:02:48overstepping our power. All collective bargaining

1:02:55That's Michael's job. Um, with the I believe with

1:03:04him on his own. I don't know. But regardless

1:03:11so I don't think I agree with with uh Wayne.

1:03:18um you know that that's just muddying the waters

1:03:28have over the staff because we have no power over

1:03:36makes people think wait a minute how come they

1:03:42the whole thing should go away. It's not our job.

1:03:52no it's it's expanding our power in a way that

1:03:58in order of hands raised here. Delegate Samson.

1:04:06is is very important. Um, it sends a message of

1:04:13beginning as an intent to put an obligation

1:04:20and certainly I never viewed it and I still don't

1:04:27them accountable or anything else. I think it's

1:04:32confusing it by by this type of language. guidance

1:04:40if anything goes wrong. Yes. Okay. So, um with

1:04:49BC and Oh, sorry, Doug Frederickson. Yeah, I'm

1:04:54we when we put out an ordinance that has

1:05:01uh that the assembly is putting on our employees

1:05:08and showing what authority I wouldn't use the word

1:05:15I can live without that being in there and I have

1:05:21Dutton to make sure that when these things get

1:05:27but I just want I think we made the point or

1:05:32the screen here that employees are our number one

1:05:37care of them in every every way we can and that

1:05:43that's uh changing their their job. That's all.

1:05:50I appreciate it, Delegate Frederickson. And

1:05:55I did have subsection B, subsection C, and section

1:06:02this question of of a bargaining agreement and

1:06:10I will suggest we strike the administrative code

1:06:20from the language of this ordinance. Um the

1:06:25administrative code is this is an ordinance right

1:06:31maintain the administrative code it is on the

1:06:36code and whatever regulations they promulgate

1:06:43I do not think it is our responsibility in an

1:06:51administrative code might supersede authorities

1:06:55the ordinance in essence does supersede the

1:07:00that. Um and then my understanding is uh from

1:07:07would be okay striking section 10 and that other

1:07:14question and this is any before I implement

1:07:22the conversation accurately? Seeing no hands.

1:07:36subsection C because I I honestly don't know

1:07:42and opinions on it. Um, the concerns that Delegate

1:07:53means to have, you know, to there here's I'll

1:08:01C of section 9 states that any known violation

1:08:07administrator and reviewed in cons consultation

1:08:12be taken as necessary to ensure compliance. I

1:08:18somewhat a broad statement. Obviously, it's broad

1:08:24county administrator. However, uh I'm wondering

1:08:32violations whether or not this is an appropriate

1:08:39applicable due process requirements. I want to

1:08:45Delegate Frederickson to answer before we make

1:08:50would like to weigh it. Delegate harder first.

1:08:58And should anybody feel the need to talk about

1:09:09at this as protection for the staff, letting them

1:09:16um you know and and if people are really worried

1:09:26um any policies or procedures. Um you could

1:09:38B. You could do you know may establish

1:09:45guidance and um you know corrective actions

1:09:54and be but frankly I don't I don't think

1:10:01I don't believe that our purpose of this is

1:10:10you know, one of the one of the um, you know,

1:10:17answer to a question and so they like tell ICE, so

1:10:23shouldn't have answered. except you know Michael

1:10:30um to want to discipline people in any way and

1:10:37to but I would just ditch it. Thank you. Okay. So

1:10:44That does make sense to me to some extent because

1:10:49us if he doesn't has enough tools to implement

1:10:54directives and that does make sense to me. But

1:11:01I agree pretty much for the same reason why

1:11:06they already have stuff in place and we it's

1:11:12thing for besides everything else and look

1:11:23Samson I I agree take it out. Um, my my feeling

1:11:32particular case, this particular policy, I'm not

1:11:38made a bad decision. Okay? Um, we want to know,

1:11:48an employee who intentionally subverts the policy

1:11:55situation. Okay. Um, th this is I see this as

1:12:03issue and that's the end of the story. And that's

1:12:09ordinance. No. No deleted. Um and then this this

1:12:18be deleted. Um last um section here. Um several

1:12:29section 10. So now section it's now this is now

1:12:37because there is no other subsection. Um currently

1:12:45you're seeing depending on how the vote goes

1:12:51assembly uh uh committee on public services. Um

1:13:02uh contention that would need to be independently

1:13:08the changes from the top to bottom on everyone's

1:13:16questions specifically, not deliberation after we

1:13:22committee uh to other members of the assembly that

1:13:28Um, I just I just want to make sure that in the

1:13:35to us that that one paragraph about um employees

1:13:45section that section 10. Okay. Thank you. Any

1:13:57Any questions by delegates in attendance who are

1:14:08Thank you, Mr. Chair. Um so just uh one question

1:14:14of the committee believe that um the work you've

1:14:21to the comments made by the administrator in his

1:14:28or if not how it's not. Thank you. I appreciate

1:14:36Um, since this isn't a full assembly meeting and

1:14:44um, I would like, if it's okay, the other

1:14:49conversation to administrator Dutton, um, to get

1:14:55he would still like to see and and to what extent

1:15:03with delegates here. Seeing none, I'm going to

1:15:12so I I appreciate the question. Um, but I would

1:15:19reread, you know, I think I think you've addressed

1:15:27um there are shades of uh gray here um as there

1:15:34slight um but I would have to go back and really

1:15:39to and sort of juxtapose those against against

1:15:45I I certainly uh as I say, I apologize for

1:15:52uh the committee for being so responsive to to

1:15:58of emphasize it again. My my concern, I think, as

1:16:04uh is really uh around the the uh the employees

1:16:11uh sort of untenable positions. Um, we, as I

1:16:17right across the board. We've got employees who,

1:16:25you know, weird things, uh, but they don't

1:16:31um, and how to deal with with, uh, you know,

1:16:38so just so long I think as as we ensure that

1:16:44that the the employees aren't put in a tenuous

1:16:52Um and and also Mr. D, I appreciate it. Um I'll

1:16:59before I call on him again because I don't think

1:17:04to cover this whole ordinance and I hope you don't

1:17:10Administer Dutton, I as you review this ordinance,

1:17:16a consolidated amendment that I'm going to

1:17:22following meeting. If you have specific concerns

1:17:28um I know I would personally welcome those

1:17:34um that you would like to see addressed in it

1:17:40that meeting. I know we've got a little bit of

1:17:46give us sufficient time as a as a committee to

1:17:52them at least think about them before we get

1:17:59um in terms of what how responsive were we uh and

1:18:07put personally the administrator's concerns on on

1:18:14administrative and separation of authority

1:18:20to, you know, our interactions with the federal

1:18:26to federal enforcement warrants, administrative

1:18:32things that are closer to the administrative and

1:18:38comprehensively try to address today. I think on

1:18:45the assembly has the power to do and we we decided

1:18:49that's my take on how today went. Uh, but given

1:18:55uh turn the floor over back to you. Thank you. Let

1:19:02this committee tonight. Uh, I'm impressed with the

1:19:06committee work. So, thank you for all the work

1:19:11you with this comment. I'm unfortunately have to

1:19:16prepared when you come to the floor. Um, to answer

1:19:23at all given the executive orders and the protect

1:19:29second, but I think it's going to be something

1:19:34I think hopefully the committee will address that

1:19:40Thank you, Delegate Fresel. Deputy

1:19:44um, Delegate King, I saw your hand

1:19:50you're muted. No, I'm okay. I'm okay now. Thank

1:20:00Thank you, delegate guessing. Chair Gesson, sorry.

1:20:07paper. So I was sort of keeping track of what

1:20:14um the the administrator had sent us. And I

1:20:23know because I think we've made it very clear that

1:20:28job to to deal with the staff. it's all Michael's

1:20:38and so I I hope I mean it seems to me you know and

1:20:47know open meeting law and 14 days and all those I

1:20:58hope that there won't be that much of us that

1:21:05I do think Carl, I can see people asking um, uh,

1:21:16this now because of the protect Act and because of

1:21:28response to that is one the protect act is state

1:21:37own. Um and thus some towns have done their own

1:21:46act I do think we need to pass this ordinance. And

1:21:56um I feel like I believe that this maybe clarifies

1:22:06um and and also gives uh strong

1:22:15um because we're all I would say a large portion

1:22:24um but also we do I it's great that the

1:22:32the ones that set the law. So if we don't have the

1:22:42well, but that wasn't really, you know, in the

1:22:49that was county policy or whatever. So, you know,

1:22:56say it's so doesn't make it so, unless there's

1:23:02Thank you, Delegate Harter. Um, okay. Any

1:23:09ask the clerk to take a roll call

1:23:16Yeah, I uh I do. I can't put my hand

1:23:27Can you hear me? We can Yeah, we can hear you.

1:23:36uh going through this and clearly we did better

1:23:42and I appreciate the time, but however, I just

1:23:48have done is already stated in at least two other

1:23:57civil immigration the the limits on that it's

1:24:04I heard this from the beginning was to reduce

1:24:11more specifically but there could be other reasons

1:24:19this does it I think it even maybe makes it uh

1:24:26I had thought of some time ago and submitted

1:24:31better served with just a general statement that

1:24:40law enforcement officers to act with respect and

1:24:46uh enforcement of the laws that they they have. Um

1:24:55could easily put together if they haven't already

1:25:01anxiety about things can move forward and give

1:25:08to help them through processes and reduce I think

1:25:18really honestly doing this. It states everything

1:25:22but we did clean it up from the last time and

1:25:26and I have more to say, but I don't want to keep

1:25:31you have done. Thank you, Doug Frederickson. And

1:25:37welcome as a delegate any other additional

1:25:42Commission that we can continue to do to protect

1:25:47to pick between the two of them. Personally, u,

1:25:53up by asking our clerk to take a roll call vote.

1:26:01I move that we recommend positively recommend

1:26:10full assembly. Second. Yeah, I think it's good

1:26:21do you want to stop sharing that now or are we

1:26:30Um trying to think of the order. Chair Gasson.

1:26:42for Delegate Fuller. Yes. I again I support it

1:26:56possible vote. I don't think that's the question

1:27:05will I'll I'll clarify as chair. I will take

1:27:11Frederickson is to recommend that the existing

1:27:16the existing ordinance to have this language.

1:27:21on it. You're recommending these amends.

1:27:31The motion that I made was to positively recommend

1:27:44So, I would put Frank's not going to say yes. So,

1:27:50delegate harder as chair I have to split those

1:27:56and then and recommend positive a positive vote

1:28:03recommend an amendment and take a positive view

1:28:09to positively recommend. That's what the finance

1:28:16have to positively they have to um make a positive

1:28:27Clerk Fletcher? Isn't that what the finance

1:28:36this, Mr. Chair, please. Your your motion was to

1:28:47Do you ever give a positive recommendation to

1:28:52Correct. As amended. Yes. Okay. Yeah. So, I just

1:28:59yes vote, is is actually clear that that Delegate

1:29:06Yeah. So with that, I I think I cler correct me

1:29:14request that that motion be split in two. Please

1:29:22I mean I you could you I think it's clear what

1:29:28you want to to to take a vote on the amendments

1:29:33but you don't need to. I think we're clear. Hey,

1:29:40anybody up. Um I don't mind seeing this go to the

1:29:50my I can I can make it clear I think from from

1:29:58I've got uh I think I got two three uh Delegate

1:30:06I think we made it clear. I think it's you now

1:30:13And Delegate Samson. Yes. All right, Mr. Chair.

1:30:19enough on the record to understand what Delegate

1:30:24the assistant clerk and I make that clear when we

1:30:29make sure to send me that report ahead of the

1:30:35Um, perfect. Uh, is there anything else on

1:30:41Mr. Chair. Seeing nothing else on the agenda, um,

1:30:45and seeing no further discussion, I consider