2026-09-16 - Assembly of Delegates

00:20It's the only time I'll probably get to use the gavl. So, I'm going to use my one opportunity,

00:25folks. Okay? Unless someone's out of order, in which case in which case I could even

00:30throw it. [laughter] It is September 16, 2026 at 4 p.m. I call this regular meeting of the

00:36Cape Cod Regional Government Assembly of Delegates to order. Clerk Fletcher,

00:40can you read the opening statements? Yes, Mr. Speaker. Um, you said it's 4:05 now. Pursuant

00:49to chapter 2 of the Acts of 2025, this meeting of the Barcel County Assembly of Delegates will be

00:53conducted both in person and via remote means in accordance with applicable law. Members of

00:57the public may watch the meeting through live real-time broadcast at www.youtube.com/user/paral

01:04county. But public participation guide meeting documents are available in advance

01:08at www.capecot.gov. The county of Barsville does not discriminate in the administration

01:12of programs or activities on the basis of race, color, religion, national origin,

01:16disability, age, sex, sexual orientation, gender identity, or other category protected

01:19by state and federal anti-discrimination laws and regulations. Reasonable accommodations for people

01:23with disabilities are available upon request. For more information or to file a complaint,

01:27please contact Christina March, Bars County ADA non-discrimination coordinator at jmarcapecot.gov.

01:33Call 5083756646 or visit www.capecot.gov. Members of the public may also attend the meeting remotely

01:42and that information is available on the website as well. Back to you, Mr. Mr. Speaker. Thank you,

01:50Mr. Clerk. Next on the business calendar is the opening ceremonies. May I have a moment of silence

01:56to remember our troops who have died in service to our country and civilian victims of war.

02:13Thank you. Please stand for the pledge of allegiance.

02:37Thank you. Clerk Fletcher, can you call the role for quer? All right. Delegate Frederickson will

02:47not be joining us today. I believe uh Deputy Speaker Frezel here. Delegate Fuller here.

02:55Delegate Gallagher here. Delegate Gassin here. Delegate Green also absent. Delegate Harter here.

03:07Delegate Killian here. Delegate King here. Delegate Mckelie here. Delegate Mali here.

03:15Dean Omen here. Delegate Samson here. Delegate Tai here. Speaker Warner's also absent. Um Mr.

03:23Mr. Speaker, that's 12 members representing 66.15% of the county's population. Thank you,

03:31Mr. Clerk. There is a quorum of the assembly for this meeting. Next on

03:34the agenda is the approval of journals and minutes. The clerks have distributed the

03:39draft of the journal and minutes for the assembly meeting of September 2,

03:422026 uh to all of us prior to the meeting. Are there any corrections?

03:52There being no further corrections for delegates or the clerks, unless there are any objections,

03:58the journal and minutes are approved as submitted. Next on the business calendar

04:04is committee of the whole. If there is no objection, the assembly will enter

04:08into the committee of the whole to consider communications in items 8 and nine informally.

04:18Seeing no objection, the assembly is entered into to the committee of the whole. And next on

04:23the calendar is communication from members of the public and officials. First is public comment. Is

04:29there anyone in the room or online that would like to make a comment to the assembly? [clears throat]

04:39Okay. I do not see anyone who is uh wishes to be heard. So,

04:45next on the business calendar is communications from regional commissioners, administrator and

04:50directors. Regional administrator Michael Dutton is here on behalf of the executive

04:54branch to give a report on the most recent board of regional commissioners meeting. Mr. Dutton,

05:02thank you uh Mr. Speaker, and my apologies. For some reason, um my video is not working. Uh so,

05:09apologies for that. Um, but I can tell you the uh board of regional commissioners met on

05:15uh September 9th and uh Wednesday, September 9th um as their first meeting uh of the month and

05:24uh entertained communication from the speaker and the deputy speaker uh regarding the uh assembly's

05:31budget resolution. I think that was a decent uh discussion and uh certainly internally we will

05:37take the the assembly's uh recommendations into account as we uh develop uh for the commissioner's

05:45approval the uh the FY28 budget message. So that is is underway. Um they also got an update on uh

05:54from county clerk uh Robin Young on the road. We call it the road show. Um but the uh the county

06:02commissioners meetings uh throughout uh the Cape at at uh individual towns. Um and uh that was um

06:11helpful. Also got a bit of an update on the uh the 2026 dredge grant applications. uh the Seapport

06:21Council uh had sort of a a quick turnaround application for uh dredge work. Uh and this

06:29is not just um not just the Cape but the whole uh the whole state um the whole coastline. Um so Ken

06:38Serillo gave a little bit of an update on that. Those dredge um applications I believe are due

06:43tomorrow. Um so Ken is helping the towns that are interested with their um with their dredge

06:50applications. Um they had a brief discussion on a letter received from the town of Haritch regarding

06:56uh reform of uh 40B comprehensive permit projects um uh specifically uh the review of

07:04uh 40B comprehensive permit projects uh on a regional basis. and they promise to continue

07:11to have that kind of discussion with all the towns as they uh as they uh go through their meeting um

07:18meeting dates with the individual towns. Got a brief update from me uh and Paul Rosala on the

07:25uh public safety training building uh the burn building we affectionately call it uh which is

07:30housed in Yarmouth and I think as the assembly knows we've been going through a process that's

07:36taken uh approximately 9 years. Um, we are at the the verge of turning that building over to the

07:42town of Yarmouth. Uh, Yarmouth and the fire chiefs association have developed uh a pretty a very good

07:50uh uh method uh to uh account for the costs uh of running that building and also uh a way to

07:57to uh calendar it out for for the Capes 19 fire department. So, um, so that is, uh, right, we're

08:05right on the cusp of turning that over, which is great news. Um, and I will also let you know,

08:12uh, something I didn't believe I I don't believe I reported to the commissioners that the building,

08:17uh, has live fire, uh, which was something the fire chiefs wanted. they entertained the idea of

08:24uh using that building with essentially sort of a digital fire um and determined that what they

08:30really want they were willing to do that but what they really needed was live fire uh for the for

08:35the training purposes for cape firefighters. I'm happy to report that that is uh live fire is in

08:41the building. So that's uh that's a that's a plus that's a big plus for the for the fire departments

08:46on the Cape. Um, and then excuse me. Otherwise, they uh heard sort of an end of the year finance

08:54recap from Carol Capola, our finance director, and Deb Child's uh our deputy uh finance director and

09:01county accountant. Um we're in in decent shape uh coming to the end of the year. Uh and is

09:09uh sort of common. we expended less than we budgeted um and we uh took in slightly more

09:15than than we uh projected in revenue. So I think that's a result of fairly conservative

09:22uh budgeting and fairly conservative estimating. So we we hope to keep that up uh in FY28 as well.

09:29Um and then uh they did voted supplemental, sorry, not supplemental, that's a bad word. Uh they voted

09:35the commissioner's consent agenda. Um and uh there was not too much of uh dramatic uh voting

09:45there pretty much accepting grants uh and and uh contracts uh and so forth. So So that is the the

09:53meeting from September 9th. They had a meeting brief meeting today um September 14th which dealt

10:00uh really with an update from Brian Bombgardle on the uh clean water week. Um and then also

10:07uh several uh consent agenda items uh including I might point out uh execution f finally execution

10:17of the federal grant uh that that uh the cooperative extension has been looking

10:24for to begin their uh fire uh safety you know wildfire planning uh process. So that is um that

10:33is a lengthy report from uh the board of regional commissioners but I'm happy to answer questions.

10:43Thank you Mr. Dutton for being heard but not seen. Um so let me ask quickly to get ball rolling here.

10:51You mentioned the bud your the year ended with more revenue than fewer expenses than budget. Do

10:57you have an a number in terms of the surplus that generated? Uh that is a great question.

11:04I do not have uh that number in front of me, but I can certainly get that and and you'll you will

11:09get all of that information uh shortly, but I can get it to you fairly shortly as well.

11:14Okay. Thank you. Delegates questions. Yes, I saw delegate Ali then delegate. Thank you. Thank you,

11:20Mr. Dunn. I'm interested as you know in the wildfire prevention issue. Can you give me any

11:27timeline as to when we anticipate that work and and and and where are they thinking this is this

11:33report will be actionable? Uh that is a great question and I know um I know the outer cape

11:40uh and lower cape uh delegates are probably very interested in this and really all of us should

11:44be. Um we have gone out uh to solicit bids on a consultant to to work uh through this process

11:51and I suspect that we will engage somebody within the next 45 days or so. Um after that there'll be

11:58a very intense uh public process. the the consultant will be expected uh to go with

12:04county staff and state uh state fire folks to all of the uh all of the towns on the Cape uh looking

12:12for public input on on uh on how we should be planning and then uh obviously they will put

12:18together a draft plan that will be circulated uh fairly widely. So, in terms of timeline,

12:24uh I believe we're hoping that that work can be wrapped up within the the uh within a year uh

12:30from last month. And uh and I hope that it could be wrapped up much sooner than that. Um and keep

12:37in mind this is an update to the 2012 uh the last planning effort that was done in 2012. So,

12:44a lot has happened since 2012. There have been a lot of changes. So, so we're hoping to address

12:49uh all of that. Good. I that's great. I I think it's very very important good news. We you know

12:55I think the risk out there is particularly in the outer cape is is significant and I think

13:00getting addressing it sooner rather than later is is critical. Thank you.

13:07Thank you. Um I had another question but first of all in in the past Americanore has been a very big

13:14part of the fire training uh get fire training out there and burn burning and they had as many

13:19as six members dedicated to that in the past is the end national park service part of this

13:24survey because I know that's a significant part of of the of that of the outer cape.

13:30I completely agreed. The the National Park Service is is on board with our effort and

13:35uh you know obviously lobbyed uh as as best they could uh for for the funding that we received uh

13:42through uh through the federal government. So that um yeah they'll be they'll be a full partner in

13:49this planning process. Americanore uh does play a significant role in in fire prevention efforts

13:56um on the on the outer cape in particular and they will uh certainly be incorporated as part

14:01of the plan. Um so short answer is yes. That that was my that was my odd question that I did. But I

14:10was I was thinking about the fire burn building that you talked about. I I know that we've had

14:16a checkered past at best with liability for the burn building and it's it's ongoing as you know.

14:21Are we absolved of liability once the town of Barn of Yarma takes over the burn building with live

14:28fire? Is the county absolutely absolved of any sort of liability? Correct. It is. So the the uh

14:35fire chiefs uh Cape fire chiefs have done a really good job in uh in sort of getting prepared to to

14:42handle the administration of that building and that includes uh offsetting the cost to Yarmouth

14:48of the additional insurance uh any additional insurance that that will have to be incurred

14:54uh due to the the uh ownership of that building. So that that has been accounted for and and that's

14:59a that's a great question. If I might follow up, Mr. Dutton, but that is not the same thing as our

15:08PAS litigation, right? That's who totally different. Oh, completely different. Yeah,

15:13completely different things. The fire the the new burn building located in uh in Yarmouth

15:19uh on on fire department property uh or town property controlled by the fire department.

15:25our our PAS liability um is uh associated with the use of a piece of property adjacent to the airport

15:33um that was uh referred to as the fire training academy. Uh that property no longer used for

15:40any fire training activities. Um and uh and we do house um the the staff that runs the mobile

15:49operation uh down there, but but no no training activities go on uh on that piece of property.

15:58Any further questions from any delegate in the room or online?

16:05I see no hands in either location. So having no further questions, thank you very much, Mr.

16:12for your report. Good to see you. Thank you. Well, I'm glad I could be seen.

16:20Next um is uh our agenda item uh presentation on the Cape Cod water supply and aquifer protection.

16:28We have with us the executive director Christy Senator and by Zoom we have water

16:33resources analyst Tim Basakarnis from the Cape Cod Commission and I believe we have some others with

16:40uh executive director Senator who can in introduce them as well as part of this presentation. Thank

16:47you all for being here. Right. Thank you so much, Mr. Speaker. Um for the record, Christy Senator.

16:53the executive director of the Cape Cod Commission and I am joined today by uh several of our staff,

16:59Erin Perry, our deputy director, Heather Mroy, natural resources manager, and then as you

17:04mentioned, Tim Pasakarnes, who's a water resources analyst with the Cape Cod Commission. Um,

17:08and just thank you very much for the invitation to be here today to talk about Cape Cod water supply

17:14and aquifer protection planning. There's been a lot of discussion lately about water quality

17:20and supply across the Cape and certainly attention drawn to the Cape's aquifer, discussion around the

17:26different groundwater lenses across the region. So, we provide we um appreciate the invitation

17:31to be here to provide some factual information and some data. Um since the first regional policy plan

17:36and Tim's going to be advancing those slides, so hopefully we can make the technical piece of

17:40this work pretty seamlessly. Um, but if we move to the next one, uh, since our first regional policy

17:45plan in the early 1990s, um, up until the one that was approved as a county ordinance by this board,

17:52um, and the regional commissioners back in the late part of 2025, water resources protection and

17:58preservation have remained certainly a priority of the Cape Cod commissions. And in 2025, the

18:05regional policy plan that you approved was able to refine and refocus our collective goals around

18:10water quality, around water supply and protection of our natural resources. Um, applying not only to

18:16our regulatory program but to regional and local planning as well. Um, the regional policy plan

18:22itself also contains a number of recommendations for moving forward with additional initiatives

18:27related to aquafer protection planning that we'll get into a little bit later in the presentation.

18:32Um, but this particular water resources goal of maintaining a sustainable supply of highquality

18:38drinking water and protecting, preserving, and restoring the ecological integrity of Cape Cod's

18:43fresh and marine water um, marine surface water resources. Um, really is supported by these

18:49corresponding objectives here, which frame a lot of what we intend to cover today. Um, so with that

18:55introduction, I'd love to hand it over to Tim Pasakarnes who can walk through some details,

19:00go through some data and information that's complex, um, but hopefully uh,

19:04provide some answers to some of those questions that are lingering out there um, and then we'll go

19:08from there. Great. Thanks, Tim. Great. Thank you very much, Christie. Good afternoon, everyone. Uh,

19:16I think I'm going to start with a little bit of background. So obviously this is a this is a topic

19:21that has seen kind of an uptick in discussion uh as of late and there are a lot of terms uh

19:29that are thrown around sometimes interchangeably um sometimes correctly sometimes incorrectly. So

19:35we'll just go through some quick background to make sure that we're all on uh you know equal

19:40equal footing uh before we get into kind of the the issue that everyone is interested in.

19:45So obviously most of us are familiar with the Cape Cod aquifer. It is recognized as a sole source

19:51aquifer. It's kind of administratively considered as a single aquifer. However, it's made up of six

19:58different lenses which are shown here. Um the sagamore being the uh largest lens followed by

20:04the monoy and then the uh four outer cape lower cape lenses which are substantially smaller. Um

20:11and it's just important to note that uh while all of those lenses function pretty much the same way

20:17um they are hydraologically distinct from one another. So water doesn't pass from one lens to

20:23another. Um so even though they might behave the same way and have kind of uh similar, you know,

20:28similar characteristics and pressures on them. Um they they are somewhat independent of one another.

20:36Uh, and when we're talking about the aquafer and the lenses, you know, we we sort of say aquafer,

20:42we talk about groundwater. Um, and they're both very closely related. The aquafer, of course, is

20:48actually kind of the is is not the water. It's all of the stuff that's below the land surface. So,

20:54below the trees, the grass, whatever vegetation there is, right? It's a mix of sand and silt and

20:59clay and different types of soil. Um, and that's the aquifer is that kind of soil matrix. Uh,

21:06the groundwater is actually the water that kind of exists in between those different particles of of

21:13soil. Um, and so again, sometimes those two terms are used somewhat interchangeably, but they are

21:20kind of distinct things. Um, and this is this the diagram that's on the screen right now is

21:26sort of you can think of it as a cross-section of Cape Cod kind of uh through the upper midcape. So

21:32stretching from Cape Cod Bay on the left um sort of heading north to south towards Nantucket Sound.

21:37Um and it's showing you know a couple different important things right so the land surface that's

21:42kind of what we see um what we walk on drive on etc. Uh and then underneath that is the aquifer

21:50and the groundwater. Uh and on the the upper and midcape it is it is all freshwater all the way

21:57down to bedrock over the the course of several hundred vertical feet. Um and throughout that

22:03aquifer if you can you know if you can see on this diagram there are a lot of arrows there are arrows

22:09at the top that are indicating you know basically precipitation. So rain that comes from the sky,

22:15um snow that falls and then melts and all of that trickles down into the aquafer. Uh and

22:21once it gets there, of course, it doesn't just sort of stay in one place. Um just like uh just

22:27like above the ground, water flows downhill. So, even though we don't see it, it is still flowing

22:32from areas of higher groundwater elevation, um, which is typically sort of the center or the top

22:39of each one of those six lenses, um, out to areas of lower groundwater elevation, which is typically

22:47the coastal waters. Um, so it's a it's a very dynamic and sort of constantly flowing system.

22:54uh and you know to to sort of right let's try and kind of wrap our heads around and put some some

23:01numbers albeit they're huge numbers so they're still kind of hard to hard to grasp but you know

23:06a lot of people are curious how much water is in the aquifer you know what what sorts of uh kind of

23:13magnitudes is the precipitation that recharges it where is that going um so to give everyone a sense

23:20uh in an average year uh there's about 400 50 million gallons a day of water that enter the

23:27aquifer, you know, so every single day. Um, that works out to about 164 billion gallons per year.

23:34Those are both huge numbers that are sort of hard to imagine um, you know, what they mean in

23:39terms of kind of practical usage, but you know, thinking about household usage, uh, you know, a

23:47single person uses about 50 to 60 gallons per day. you know, a household might use several hundred

23:53gallons a day. Um, so that gives you kind of a a sense of, you know, what sort of scale we're

23:58talking about here. And like I mentioned before, all of that water is continually sort of flowing

24:04from again areas of high groundwater elevation to areas of low groundwater elevation. Uh,

24:11most of that is just kind of going directly to the coastal waters. So uh through you know basically

24:18through the the interface between salt water and fresh water that happens in the estuaries you know

24:24in the coastal beaches uh but some of it as well goes to streams and sort of flows out to the ocean

24:30through those surface waters. Um and some of it of course is withdrawn by supply wells to be used for

24:36drinking water. Um it's important to note that you know of that uh recharge that enters the

24:44aquifer every year um the amount that we're using for drinking water uh is is fairly low. It's less

24:51than 10%. It's around 7%. Um so just to again sort of give everyone a sense of you know what

25:00uh what proportion of that annual recharge we're currently utilizing for drinking water.

25:08Uh and speaking specifically about you know water supplies about withdrawing groundwater

25:15to use for drinking water. Uh so a lot of that is managed by the state through mass

25:20DP and the water management act. Um so they're you know water management act permits govern

25:27uh a lot of the parameters for use of different water supply wells. So you know how much can be

25:36withdrawn uh on a daily or annual basis whether there are uh conditions that might limit how much

25:43that can be withdrawn. Uh what's interesting is that so looking at all of the all of the public

25:50water suppliers. So there are there are 20 you know some municipal departments some independent

25:58water districts but there are 20 different public water suppliers uh throughout Cape Cod. uh all of

26:04them pump about 11 billion gallons a year. Um that fluctuates a bit from year to year but it has been

26:11uh remarkably consistent over the past uh 10 to 20 years which is kind of the the period of

26:17data that we had available to us. Uh that 11 billion gallons per year uh is is also quite

26:24a bit less than what those 20 water districts are together permitted to withdraw. Right? So

26:29they're withdrawing about 11. Um their permits allow them, you know, upwards of 13.5 billion

26:35gallons per year. [snorts] Um which is all to say that, you know, the the idea that sort of water

26:44quantity is an issue. Um it's not that simple, but it's also, you know, that's not that's not

26:52the the primary concern that we're running into. So all of those numbers I just presented, right,

26:59are on an annual basis. And anyone who's spent time on Cape Cod knows that Cape Cod in the

27:04winter spring looks very different from Cape Cod in the summer for a number of reasons. Certainly

27:09the climate is a little different seasonally. Um as are you know the things that we use water for

27:15and of course the population, the number of people who are on Cape. Um so if we think about now like

27:22uh trying to step back from how much we use over a year and look at that as you know a sequence of

27:28individual days um we see that nearly 50% of that 11 billion gallons uh is you know is pumped in the

27:37third quarter so between July and September. Um what that means is you know water systems kind of

27:45they see an average usage over the course of the year. Uh at that summer peak season what they're

27:51being asked to deliver uh is oftent times in excess of three times their normal demand um

27:58in in you know averaged over the year. Uh and in addition you know we we find that really it is it

28:06is squarely that third quarter. So while certainly winter uh you know you'd expect there to be a lot

28:13less water demand for water in the winter um all the plants are dormant you know nobody's doing

28:19much landscaping uh the population is lower um and so we find that the the summer demand is ranges

28:27from three to four times winter. Um but even the spring demand which is of course kind of splits

28:33the two we find that that summer demand is still multiple times uh you know the the demand for

28:39water in that April to June period. Um so really what this is kind of uh teeing up here is the fact

28:49that while overall uh you know there's plenty of water supply for uh for our current uses um where

28:59suppliers are starting to be challenged is meeting those extreme peak demands uh you know under under

29:07kind of the a combination of conditions that seem to be happening. happening more frequently in the

29:14summer. [snorts] Um so again just to look at this uh you know from that daily perspective. Um again

29:22we had that average recharge is about 450 million gallons per day in an average year. Um mass DP

29:30calculates for all of the different water supply basins in the state. They calculate a safe yield.

29:36So that is um done through you know through a formula or through a procedure that estimates

29:41how much water can be withdrawn from the basin without negatively impacting uh you know a variety

29:48of things things like water levels um in ponds, wetlands, ecological considerations like that

29:56um regionwide. And the safe yield for the Cape Cod aquifer is 266 millions per day. So it's a

30:04little over half of that average recharge amount. Uh and we looked at uh all of the water suppliers

30:13uh report their required to report the date and the amount of their sort of maximum day pumped

30:22or you know highest demand. Um it's worth noting those don't all line up. You know some of them

30:27are in June, some are in July, some are in August. It really varies from supplier to supplier. Um but

30:33even if we total those all up as if they occurred on the same day um that demand is roughly 30% of

30:41the safe yield uh that that has been determined for the Cape Cod Basin. Um so really you know what

30:48I hope that helps illustrate is the question of does enough water exist? The the answer is

30:55clearly yes. Um however that's not the end of the story of course uh you know the the next logical

31:03question is well can we access that water when we want it? Can it be pumped you know when uh when

31:12and in the quantities that people would like it to be. Um and that's where we get into you know some

31:18of the finer details of what are the limits on that. So certainly I I kind of alluded to before

31:25um all of the permits put limits on individual source uh wells, how much can be pumped. Um many

31:33wells also there are just physical constraints to how much water you can get out of them. Uh

31:39a product of kind of the the size of the well, what the geology around it is like, the size of

31:45the pumps, right? You know, you can only run a pump 24 hours a day. you can't run it more than

31:50that. Uh and so these you know these are some of uh the constraints on meeting you know peak demand

32:00at the time of peak demand um that some water suppliers are are starting to uh run into. Uh

32:10and of course part of this too is keeping in mind that running you know in running a public water

32:19supply system there are a lot of kind of competing demands and considerations that that need to be

32:26part of any sort of operational decision- making um and kind of planning for the future. Right?

32:32So obviously uh you want to provide water to your customers. Um you want to make revenue

32:39off of providing that water. Um but you also you know you don't want to uh have impacts to the you

32:48know surrounding environment. um one that can be a problem permit-wise and can result in you know

32:54sort of action from mass DP but also as we know uh so much of kind of Cape Cod's character and

33:01economy depends on those things as well. So it's sort of prudent to uh to manage your manage your

33:07water system for that. Um you also you know need to have some reserve capacity um for unexpected

33:17emergency response type activities which can use you know massive quantities of water very quickly

33:23um that can be you know can be hard to sort of replenish if you also have users demanding

33:29100% of your pumping capacity. Um similarly, you don't want your system maxed out uh in the event

33:36that you have equipment failure, you have a a contamination event at a well that requires you

33:43know one or more of your sources to be offline. Um and of course with all of these things,

33:49uh you know, the the longer that you're running pumps for, um the more you're running them under

33:55low water conditions, that increases wear and tear on your infrastructure. uh and so that

34:01you know that both increased costs and increases the chances of sort of equipment related uh uh

34:10equipment related challenges to supplying water. Um so that's you know that's again part of the

34:15the challenge of this of of kind of having these discussions and trying to have simple answers to

34:22questions about you know how much water is there and how it compares to our demand for water.

34:30Um so again uh the main issue is not so much does the water exist but it's accessing the water when

34:38and how we want to. Um certainly additional water supply development is going to be critical to

34:46preparing for the future. Um both in terms of you know either providing for additional demand u and

34:53also for uh increasing redundancy you know even under current demand for you know for to provide

35:01operational flexibility during uh unplanned or unexpected emergency response or other types of

35:08event of events. Uh it's worth noting as well that uh as part of this we've looked at the

35:17uh land areas that could potentially support you know future water supplies uh acknowledging that

35:23development of those supplies is is going to be important. Um and that land is fairly limited.

35:29Uh our most recent analysis showed that you know it's a little bit less than 11% of the land area

35:35on Cape Cod is still suitable for water supply development. Um also water supply development

35:44is not a simple thing. Um there are a number of requirements for it. Uh it can be time consuming.

35:52The the latest rule of thumb I heard is it's approximately a seven-year process to get a

35:57new supply permitted. Um it's not inexpensive either. Uh and again you heard that the the

36:05land that is available to support water supply development is um you know is a fairly small

36:11percentage of the land on Cape Cod. Uh and it and it continues to sort of shrink over time.

36:20So hopefully this probably you know is is not a surprise slide. Anyone who's been involved in

36:26these conversations knows this if you've been you know watched everything I've presented so far. Um,

36:32it's not a simple conversation. So, it's one aquifer, but each of those lenses can, you know,

36:38even though they tend to behave similarly, they can be subject to different pressures. Um,

36:4320 different water suppliers on Cape Cod each have individual situations regarding the number

36:49and nature of their sources that they're drawing from. Um some of these effects that

36:54we're concerned about like uh environmental effects can be very localized and can depend

37:01uh heavily on you [snorts] know the the performance or the the operation of individual

37:07sources. Um the messaging is challenging because you know as as I've talked about today

37:15uh the water existing versus having access to that water are not the same thing. Um,

37:21and it can be a little bit difficult to sort of uh try and articulate both of those those

37:27uh arguments at the same time. Uh, water use restrictions. Uh, anyone who's sort of driven

37:36throughout the state or throughout Cape Cod has probably seen that restrictions are applied uh,

37:43you know, differently from town to town and even within a town. Um there are a lot of reasons for

37:48that but you know the the ultimate impact is sort of confusion and and perhaps ambivalence

37:55about the you know importance of uh adhering to those restrictions. Um and then of course

38:01there are some different expectations for you know what what we should what we should

38:07be supplying water what types of activities uh water supplies should support. Um and then of

38:15course you know one additional pressure on all of these things which everyone is likely aware of is

38:21uh if it seems like drought is becoming more frequent at least in the last uh seven plus

38:28years um and this is uh since the the state's latest drought plan came out. So we can look

38:35at apples to apples. Um we're seeing more months with drought declarations over the last you know

38:41two and a half to three years certainly uh than we did in the previous five. Um so that you know

38:47is part of why we're having this conversation um you know perhaps a little bit more forcefully and

38:56uh more frequently than in the past. And with that, I'm going to turn it over to Heather Mroy.

39:07Great. Thank you.

39:11Um, so we have just a a couple more slides um to review. We wanted to make sure you were aware of

39:18another effort um that's underway um addressing open space planning, which is directly related

39:25to this issue. Um so as you're likely aware the regional policy plan has an open space goal. It

39:32has um since there have been a regional policy plans starting in 1990 open space has been a

39:40priority. Um and uh water supply protection has been a component of of that as well.

39:48Um this region a recent uh regional policy plan adopted last year um has a recommendation to

39:56develop a regional open space plan. Uh so we have started that effort. Um and I just want

40:03to touch on a couple of the the elements of of the work that we've been doing next.

40:12So, um based on um work before we got into the regional policy into the regional open

40:20space plan really coming out of um some uh early stakeholder engagement and also

40:26um stakeholder input through the regional policy plan. We identified

40:31several regional priorities um for this open space planning effort um including

40:37um uh identifying and protecting potential public water supply areas. Next,

40:47so Tim touched on on this. Um the potential public water supply area is uh was an analysis that we

40:55conducted um as part of that regional policy plan update. um as he noted, there's limited

41:01land left that could potentially support um water supply development. Um this analysis is a desktop

41:11analysis. It it you know a a lot of additional work would need to be done to actually um identify

41:17suitable locations for wells. But um the graphic gives you an idea of what that analysis the result

41:23of that analysis um and why it's an an important uh focus of the regional open space plan. These

41:30are areas that we need to prioritize um our attention on next. So uh through this process

41:41we have met um with many stakeholders um and just concluded um four uh regional subreional listening

41:50sessions um which were all very productive um in meeting with um our municipal staff colleagues

41:59uh land trust staff and board members, state and federal partners who work in this area.

42:05Um there were several themes that um came out um focused around these these uh areas of discussion,

42:14priorities, challenges and tools and resources. And I wanted to just draw your attention today

42:20to a couple of them. Um under priorities, water supply protection is sort of universally

42:26um a priority um for continued focus through our open space protection efforts. um related buffers

42:35to water bodies. As you probably recall, we've just finished um the uh freshwater initiative with

42:42a number of um you know with a a strategy coming out of that to protect um our freshwater lakes and

42:48ponds, buffers to water bodies um which are uh lenses into the aquafer literally many most of

42:56them connect to the aquifer um are uh priorities as well. Um and then just briefly on challenges

43:04um we heard uh have continue to hear um that public education uh making that connection

43:14between the protection of our environment and the quality of our life and the quality of our water

43:20um uh is an ongoing need. Um so that will continue to be an important um area to address. Um we also

43:28heard about competing interests. The Cape has many challenges. Um protecting water supply is is one

43:35of them. Um but there are others that we need to balance um with that. And um climate change

43:42exacerbates um these issues um which I could get into in detail if if that was of interest,

43:50but um I'll leave it there and I guess I'm going to turn it back over to Christie just to wrap us

43:56up here. Thank you. And this is our last slide and bringing it back to the water resources goal

44:02in the regional policy plan that I mentioned um before handing it over to Tim. There are several

44:07recommendations within the regional policy plan itself. Heather mentioned we're moving forward

44:11already on the open space planning effort at the regional scale, but there are two related to this

44:16particular water resources goal. The first to be is developing an advanced dynamic groundwater

44:21model which certainly will help us support local and regional efforts to better understand

44:26groundwater flow, understand those um changing environmental conditions and some of the impacts

44:31around water withdrawal and inputs. Um certainly this is a significant effort will require some

44:37resources and funding but would benefit the region in the long term and something that um we're

44:42hoping to be able to focus on. And the second is advanced aquifer protection planning. And um this

44:48is looking at the health and capacity of our salt source aquifer to provide those drinking water re

44:53um needs that we have while ensuring that access and use of new water supplies will not adversely

44:59impact our freshwater resources. Um so certainly this is something that the commission staff is

45:04developing a scope for currently. Um we look forward to advancing this particular initiative

45:10um within the next uh several months and we look forward to partnering with the assembly

45:15of delegates with the county commissioners and working with local and regional stakeholders to

45:19make sure that this is an effort um that we can accomplish uh in the near future. So with that

45:25um again just thank you for the opportunity to be able to provide some data and information. I think

45:29this is probably the first of many conversations around this topic. Um, but we're happy to uh take

45:35any questions if you have them now or if there's any follow-up certainly we're happy to to either

45:39come back or or take those questions later. Thank you, uh, Director Senator and everyone else. It's

45:47an excellent presentation. Um, and I'm glad we're getting started in a series of making

45:52is so important, especially that connection you just made with the open space planning of seeing

45:58that those connections and integration is really important. So, I saw delegate Ali first and then

46:04delegate her. Thank you for the presentation. you are undoubtedly aware that there is on the outer

46:13Cape between the towns of Churro and Province Town um real discussion going on. I don't quite

46:19know where it sits, but I I'm hearing it on both sides that there are standoffs between the two

46:25towns about further water withdrawal. For anyone listening, uh Province Town deres all of its

46:32public water supply from wells that are located in the town of Churro. So there's a kind of a

46:37contentious relationship and I've heard reference at least in informally to the notion of a

46:44uh a development of regional impact kind of a designation for that area. Has the commission

46:52become involved in this at this point? Is there anything can you talk to this publicly? Sure. So

46:59thank you for the question. Um we are aware of um some of the discussions that are happening

47:04between the two communities and the need to potentially come to some agreement or consensus on

47:10um how to provide water going forward. Um and certainly the commission would be happy to

47:17um be part of those conversations that ongoing dialogue as the two towns hopefully can find some

47:22um common ground and and and move those discussions in a productive manner.

47:29The term the term I was looking for that escaped me was the district of critical planning concern.

47:33Yes. Um and and pursuing that, but that's has so far not been initiated. Correct. We

47:40do not have any district of critical planning concern application before us. Um I understand

47:45those conversations perhaps have been ongoing within some of the communities,

47:48but no, there isn't currently anything pending at the commission. Thank you.

47:55Thank you, Mr. Speaker. um [clears throat] to quick cook. Uh one uh you said 11% potentially

48:06could be used um [clears throat] to get water. Is that like taking separate and being taken

48:13out of the 16 14% whatever it is that isn't um unprotected and undeveloped yet or is that just

48:23random 11% of suitable land? That is a subset of roughly of that uh 13% that's remaining. So um

48:36there are lots of different resource interests and demands on the remaining land you know so

48:42uh there will be balancing required there too. Okay, great. And the second quick question is

48:48if we can get copies of the slides. Thanks. Worse, I'm sorry. Was that a request to get the

48:54slides? Is that what Okay. Yes. Yes. Certainly. They were excellent. Thank you. Delegate Ali,

48:59do you have a something? I'm sorry. Delegate Dean Omen, did you want to ask your question? Thank

49:03you. Thank you for this presentation. It's um it's it's perplexing, you know, to see all the problems

49:09going on and the issues. My my question is in my town of Dennis they're at 97% of what the D

49:16allows and the D is putting pressure on the town. We have a water district not a water department so

49:21it's quite independent that we're at 97% and the I think the D wants us to shrink 10%. How much

49:29power exactly do they have? Or is this I I don't understand the relationship between the D's their

49:35power to ascertain usage as opposed to encouraging usage. Can you explain that to me? See if maybe

49:45Tim can jump in on this. Yeah, I was looking at Tim. Sorry. Yeah. Yes. Thank you. Yeah. So,

49:52uh all basically all of those withdrawals. So for the the Dennis Water District, you know, I forget,

50:00but they have, you know, they have a they have a handful of individual wells that they are

50:04able to kind of pull from to supply water to their network. Um each one of those wells has a limit on

50:13how much can be withdrawn and then also the entire system um has a limit uh as far as you know what

50:20they're permitted to withdraw on an annual basis. Um, and there are certainly recommendations for,

50:28you know, how close you get to your limit. Uh, for a lot of the reasons that I outlined, you know,

50:35if you are at or near 100% of your limit, um, that gives you very little wiggle room for things like

50:41emergency response or for unplanned downtime to sources. Um, so it's sort of an operational

50:47best practice to uh leave some buffer in your permitted capacity. Um but that would be the

50:54you know the mechanism for mass DP to be uh you know kind of making making recommendations or to

51:05uh to try and influence use would be through the water management act and the permit and so

51:10it would be I imagine it would be through the specifics of the Dennis Water District permit

51:15um if there's anything in there that you know D is is referring to specifically

51:20as they uh you as they try to encourage different patterns of of water withdrawal.

51:31Thank you. And I have one just one other uh comment really. I I really was engaged with your

51:37education plans. You know, I know the APC does a lot of work with this and they have the barrels,

51:41the drainage barrels that you can use, the water plants. I I would would highly encourage

51:46more education, especially at the school level. You know, that's the future. So,

51:50I hope that we do that. just education how to use water properly. I think that's maybe one

51:55of the best and easiest ways to sort of explain to the public what what we need to do for going

52:02into the future. Thank you, Delegate McKelie and then Delegate Guess. Thank you. Uh as you know,

52:09there's a lot of talk about housing on Cape Cod and uh introducing new housing onto Cape Cod and

52:15refurbishing housing which is going to bring in a lot more people onto Cape Cod both full-time

52:20and on the summer. uh dwellings. Uh how much more of a population can the aquifer actually handle?

52:31I will uh I will at least start this conversation, but this is a very complex

52:35and complicated question that I think um many are asking and trying to determine an answer for.

52:42And it really um it really depends on the vision for the future of the Cape and how um we intend to

52:49balance these competing interests and how we are balancing economic development, economic growth

52:54with environmental protection. So um unfortunately I don't think it's a straightforward answer with

52:59uh a numerical response at the moment, but there are a lot of um uh analyses that can go into

53:05um a future conversation like this. But there's got to be a calculation that shows how much how

53:11many gallons in the aquifer and at what point of population does that start to really impact uh the

53:17drainage of the aquifer down to mud. [laughter] I mean really calculation. Yes. But I think if

53:25we reflect back on Tim's slides, which we we'll be happy to share, um we haven't done that math,

53:34but it would be an astronomical number of people. It would Yes. I mean, there is so much water in

53:41the aquifer that we're only we're only drawing a very small percentage of it right now. And we're

53:48even drawing a very small percentage of what has been estimated to be a safe yield. Gotcha. Okay.

53:54So that safe yield is a is a key term and number to sort of focus on. Okay. And I'm just curious,

54:02I mean, if it's if it's such a large num amount of water, why are we so worried about a drought?

54:13Well, so period Tim also I think explained that um we have um limits on what can be withdrawn

54:21based on our permits. Gotcha. And at certain times of year when we're at peak demand y and Cape Cod

54:28is is like other places in the country but also kind of unique. Um we have these very seasonally

54:36high periods of lots of visitors, lots of second homeowners here making very high demand. At the

54:43same time when uh our vegetation is demanding a lot, our water bodies are demanding a lot.

54:50evaporation, evapot transanspiration is demanding a lot. So that's where the the tension begins to

54:57come when um when we're experiencing drought, but it's not doesn't sound like it's a drinking water

55:04problem. It's not. Okay. All right. And I'm also curious about how 450 million gallons of water

55:11uh gets put back into the aquifer daily if we're in a drought. Well, that's an average. That's an

55:18average. Okay. There's your math right there. One last question. How does um the affluent runoff or

55:29the discharge from sewer systems like Mashby's building and other towns uh how does that filter

55:35down into the aquifer and what amount of water does that account for in the aquifers or does it?

55:44Kim, would you like to feature that one? Sure. Sure, I'd be happy to. Yeah. So that's that's

55:50actually a really really important piece to think about, right? So for uh regardless of whether it

55:59is a sewer system, you know, a centralized sewer system like what's being built in MASHP like

56:05um what you know already exists in several other towns or if it is a network of septic systems,

56:11right, where you have a public water supply that is piping water out to a bunch of residences,

56:18uh properties, etc. Um, in any case, what's going through the septic system, what is going through

56:24the wastewater treatment facilities on Cape Cod, which all utilize groundwater discharge permits,

56:30you know, pretty much all of that water is going back into the aquifer, and is recharging it. So,

56:36it is it is a little bit of a circular, you know, circular kind of water use pattern. Um,

56:42the difference, of course, being uh things like irrigation. Not all of that is going back. a lot

56:48of that is either being taken up by plants or it is evaporating, you know, as it sits on your lawn

56:54on the plants in the middle of summer. Um, and so that's where those uses are not contributing to

57:02uh to recharging the the groundwater or certainly not in the same way. You know,

57:08a lot less of it is actually making it back to the subsurface. Um, and that's why those are the

57:13targets of when there are water use restrictions. those restrictions are not on, you know, drinking

57:19water, on being able to do dishes, but they're on outdoor irrigation, um, which, you know, leads to

57:25those water losses. Okay. Thank you very much. I appreciate appreciate you answering my questions.

57:31I yield my time, Mr. Speaker. Which of which you had none left. U, let me let me point out,

57:39but you had good questions, so it's okay. Um um we are reaching the limit I think of this

57:46discussion. I know people have hands raised and I have a couple of questions myself. However, I just

57:50want to point out to delegates that we have two other matters to deal with tonight. Two reports

57:55and it could take up some time to deal with those two reports and votes on those two matters. So,

58:01and I don't want to keep us if at all even to six o'clock or much past six o'clock. We all like to

58:07uh uh kind of get the meeting meeting done in twice. just pointing that out in terms of

58:12questions on this. So I delegate Gesson was next. Delegate Omali, you had some other questions.

58:18Um go ahead Delegate Gome. Uh thank you delegate Fresel. In that case, uh, given your guidance, uh,

58:25I can follow up the number of these questions in writing after the fact. And I'll just ask briefly,

58:30um, is the presentation that we just saw, which is great, um, based on any kind of underlying report

58:36that we could access or was this just a summary of the facts that you chose to present today?

58:47Um Tim can certainly identify a few of the sources that we did use, but this is a compilation of a

58:52number of resources that we were able to develop on our own and rely on for um this presentation

58:58today. So happy to follow up with you with any specifics unless Tim has something um that he'd

59:02like to just articulate quickly right now. No, Chrissy, I think the and I think the two pager it

59:09looked like was handed out uh in the room. that's where a lot of the information came from. So,

59:15I think that's the the go-to. And then certainly for any specific kind of numbers or figures,

59:20we're happy to pass along the sources for those. Sounds good. I'll work with the clerk. Yep. I'll

59:27just point out that we will send to all the delegates who were not here today um a PDF of

59:33that two pages so you'll see what we see. And you have more. Uh no, I'll just wait. I'll I'll follow

59:42up by email. I appreciate it. I will point out to everyone too that this is just the start, not the

59:49end of our discussion at the Assembly of Water um both the water quality and water supply. So,

59:54we're going to have a lot more opportunities to dig into this some more. But go ahead, Delegate

59:58Ome. This not a question, but in part an answer to delegate m one of Delegate McKelby's questions

1:00:05that I this answer comes from Mr. Pasarnis from a conversation we had length a couple years

1:00:12ago when I was doing a piece on the drought. He asked about if we have clearly enough capacity,

1:00:19why are we worried about the drought and it was pointed out to me and Tim you were the

1:00:23one that pointed it out is that our municipal wells are drilled to three two three 400 feet

1:00:29down and so the the likelihood of draw down to that point is is is remote. On the other hand,

1:00:36most homeowners have wells that are 20, 30, 40, 50 ft deep. And so what we experienced several years

1:00:42back was that homes were having trouble drawing water when the lens drops. We're not going to

1:00:48see it municipally. So just to clarify that I I would Is that fair to say, Miss Pascarnes? It is.

1:00:57Yes. And that uh private wells is an area that unfortunately is a is a lot harder to keep track

1:01:04of because they are managed locally through you know through uh the health departments.

1:01:10And so to try and aggregate that information about what those you know what those individual

1:01:15experiences are like at the regional level is really difficult. But absolutely, you know, in

1:01:20terms of uh many of the uh kind of future future scenarios that might challenge water supplies,

1:01:28those uh private wells just because of the size and depth of them are generally more susceptible

1:01:33um and might be you know might be kind of the the places where you know actual supply issues

1:01:41are observed uh first. Thank you. Thank you for that clarification. Okay. other delegates with

1:01:49questions comment. Um I had just a couple of quick questions. So going back to your

1:01:56um example of 450 million gallons a day um and where that water goes, it it surprised me that

1:02:07only 7% goes to public wells and we kind of lose the other um 69% 24%. Is there any way to change

1:02:16that? Could we if we wanted to to increase how much is going into public wells to increase the

1:02:22supply of water drinking water or is that just not going to that's impossible to do?

1:02:31Yeah, I can comment briefly on that if that's okay. Yeah. So I mean really that is that is

1:02:37kind of where you know what the end of the slides I presented are are sort of

1:02:44uh indicating is the way to do that is either to pump more out of existing wells

1:02:49um which you may not be possible either because of permitting limits or they may not be possible

1:02:55because of just the nature of you know the soil around the wells. you know there the the geology

1:03:01may only allow a certain you know a certain volume of water to be pumped or a certain volume of water

1:03:08to be pumped before you start to see impact from you know draw down of the water table

1:03:15right around the well. So then the other solution is of course to add more wells um which you know

1:03:22we we think is should be part of the conversation um certainly for future demand but also just for

1:03:29additional system redundancy but it's not a you know it's not a not a simple process to permit

1:03:36and install you know find a location that's suitable for a new public supply well for the

1:03:42type of pumping volumes we're talking about and then to inst stall and permit them and get them,

1:03:48you know, tied into existing distribution systems. Okay. So, that that means that 7%

1:03:56isn't like we're just trapped in that number and it can't expand. It can get bigger than

1:04:007%. That's correct. Right. Okay. Next question. Last question. So, the lenses are not equal. Um,

1:04:10the Sagamore and the Monoy are larger and I suspect much larger than the four lenses for

1:04:16the outer cape. Is there any thought? And if so, what kind of ideas or consideration could

1:04:24there be for some way in which some of that large amount of water in those other two lenses could

1:04:31be shared with those in the other communities, Outer Cape for example, that have smaller lenses.

1:04:42I'm gonna see if Tim wants to jump in on that one. Yeah. So, I'm I'm not aware of discussions

1:04:50to this effect. However, um you know, there are aside from kind of the physical limitations of

1:04:59you would have to pipe it across um basically they're called the groundwater divides. So

1:05:05they're sort of low-lying typically streams that um happen to coincide in you know where

1:05:11the break between two lenses is. You'd have to get the water across those. Um there may

1:05:17be some administrative hoops uh associated with you know I know I know the water management act

1:05:24um certainly has a you know has a process for interbasin transfers. Um,

1:05:34I don't know if that would apply here or not, but I don't I think the the simple answer is

1:05:39I'm not aware of anything that would make that impossible. That that's always good to hear. Um,

1:05:46is it is it uh is it possible that those communities relying on those smaller lenses could

1:05:52actually run out of water at some point while the other communities on bigger lenses do not?

1:06:02I mean, I think that um it's an interesting question, but I think we're not there yet,

1:06:11right? I mean, we're um with the exception of the longestablished relationship between

1:06:16Province Town and Truro. Um because Province Town's lens, the water there is not a suitable,

1:06:22it's not suitable for drinking. Um, but for the most part, uh, there are still opportunities for

1:06:30locating new wells throughout all of the lenses and we haven't hit those those limits yet. So,

1:06:38I I think it's premature to sort of entertain those that idea. Delegate Killian, thank you,

1:06:48Mr. Speaker. Just one question on the math. You showed us a graph earlier of

1:06:51the um the years that we've had of drought of various degrees. Could you tell us what the

1:06:58um how far below we are in terms of rainfall over that period of time? I know we've been,

1:07:04you know, maybe a few inches here, five inches. Could do you know what that is over that period?

1:07:14Uh I can find out at least for the last 12 months momentarily if we want to look further back that

1:07:22is accessible but I don't I don't have it on hand right now. I'm assuming it's been accumulating

1:07:28over time as we've been uh under re not receiving enough rain over those many years that that

1:07:35deficit has been accumulating. Is that correct? Yes, that is so part of what is part of one of

1:07:43the ways that the drought task force looks at data for each of the drought regions before they then

1:07:49translate that into a drought declaration is they look at precipitation. And depending on how long a

1:07:56region has been in drought, the the period over which they're looking at the precipitation and

1:08:02how it uh compares to normal can vary. And so for the Cape Cod region right now, they're looking at,

1:08:09you know, at this point an over over two-year look back period. So that's how long the region

1:08:15has been in sustained drought for. Um just to give you kind of a sense of of exactly to your point,

1:08:22you know, how long um the system has been trying to recover. Um, and also how long

1:08:28we're looking at, okay, needing, you know, needing above average rainfall in order to

1:08:34uh impact that deficit. Thank you. That answers the question. Thank you. I think we've kind of

1:08:41reached um our time on this unless anyone has a burning question. Um any uh further comments from

1:08:48any members of the commission staff? Um no, just thank you for your attention today. Um,

1:08:54and we look forward to continuing the dialogue. With that, I'd say thank you again. Uh, especially

1:09:00helping all the delegates to keep our heads above water. Thank you. I couldn't resist. I'm sorry.

1:09:13Next, um, is um, item number 10, um, which is the assembly convenes.

1:09:23It's uh time for the reports of officers and committees. The first report is from the

1:09:28Assembly Standing Committee on Public Services. Um either delegate guest and the chair or vice chair,

1:09:34Delegate Harter is going to uh provide that report of their meeting of September 14th. Is it? Yes,

1:09:42I can do that. Delegate Guess, you have the floor. Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.

1:09:49Uh the standing committee on public services met on September 14th, 2026 to deliberate on

1:09:54ordinance 26-11, which regulates immigration enforcement on county property. The measure

1:10:00establishes five key safeguards requiring judicial warrants for non-public facility

1:10:06access, prohibiting raid staging areas, protecting personal data, preventing employee commandeering,

1:10:12and establishing enforcement reporting. During our deliberations, the committee members discussed the

1:10:18operational and community impact of the proposal. Delegates Harter, Samson, and Fuller supported

1:10:23the measure, emphasizing that it offers explicit guidance to county employees, protects access to

1:10:28services, and aligns with state standards. I also want to highlight uh the minority

1:10:34perspective of Delegate Frederickson who expressed reservations uh and requested that additional

1:10:41information be requested from administrator Dutton prior to the assembly taking a vote.

1:10:50Um afterwards turning to public transparency the committee extensively debated disclosing four

1:10:56policybased legal opinions. Delegate Samson and others raised concerns about safeguarding attorney

1:11:02client privilege, avoiding harmful government uh governance precedents. Ultimately, the committee

1:11:08voted to advance two formal recommendations to the full assembly. one, a favorable recommendation uh

1:11:15to adopt ordinance 26-11 and a unanimous recommendation that the assembly work in

1:11:21consultation with council to release policybased legal opinions to the public to the maximum extent

1:11:27practable. With our deliberations complete, we submit these recommendations to the full assembly.

1:11:36Thank you. Is there a motion?

1:11:41I move um [clears throat] that the assembly approve ordinance 202611

1:11:49ensuring community safety and lawful federal immigration enforcement. Second.

1:11:58There's a motion and a second. Is there discussion on the motion?

1:12:05Hello. Is that Delegate Ferguson proceed? Yeah, it is. Sorry. I'm juggling meetings here. Um,

1:12:14appreciate it and uh thank you for allowing me to step in. Um, listen, I'm a little uh disappointed

1:12:21on how this came up so quickly from Friday to Monday. Got a call that I needed to be on the

1:12:26uh Monday. Went over it. Um, there's a lot of stuff that's uh pretty straightforward in it uh

1:12:32quite honestly. Um but you know I was asked to prevent present uh to come up with a document.

1:12:39I submitted it today after going through it as well as just so you know I submitted a doc

1:12:45I mean to the speaker uh that took a little is intact on this to make it more uh more more other

1:12:51recommendations to be proactive in and what we're thinking about. Um but I after going over it today

1:12:59I read it the document as written is really uh not a very strong worded document. Um I made several

1:13:07suggestions. There are some legal questions with authority who has uh disciplinary uh

1:13:13authority. Uh the way it's written it goes to the assembly. It really in our charter that doesn't

1:13:20uh represent well. And quite honestly, just the very first sentence of the title uh an ordinance

1:13:27ensuring uh community safety, I think that's like a mistake saying we're ensuring anybody's safety.

1:13:34It's just a matter of words smithing it a little bit. Um I hope that Owen shared my document with

1:13:40you that you can look at it. I I honestly would recommend that we take a little bit more time,

1:13:47one more meeting with the uh committee to really go through it and make it a document

1:13:52that we can all support and understand um that is clear. It's more precise. It's worded properly

1:14:00um and can be better. I think it uh just represents a sloppy piece of work if we

1:14:06put it as written and we can do better and as the assembly we should do better.

1:14:12I see delegate guest in hand and then delegate harder. Um I I do take some uh reservation to an

1:14:21ordinance that has been available to all delegates for going on more than half a year now. Um almost

1:14:30a year um all right going on half a year over six months um to be uh considered sloppy work. Um,

1:14:39I believe the delegates that introduced it, the delegates that sponsored it,

1:14:44um, put a lot of time and effort into drafting a document that as withtood for legal opinions,

1:14:52uh, by our council, uh, without recommendations for any corrections as a result of sloppy work.

1:14:58Um, and I would ask the delegate from Barnstable um, if he has a motion uh,

1:15:05specifically any motions to amend this proposal as currently written. Um, but through the speaker

1:15:15um, Delegate Berdickson, did I see your hand or not? Uh, yeah. No, I can speak to it if you want.

1:15:22Uh, I would uh entertain a a motion to amend and uh I believe uh clerk Fletcher has uh several of

1:15:37the changes. I don't want to go into a marathon session. I think uh you'd be uh pretty surprised

1:15:44at the quality of improvements to the document if you have time to read it and the committee has it.

1:15:52Um, so there is u there's work that needs to be done to it and uh so that that would be my motion

1:16:01to delegate time look at the entire I didn't want to cut you off but go ahead. Yeah. Okay.

1:16:11My uh motion would be to uh have the document I submitted to clerk Fletcher be considered

1:16:20um as an amendment. Okay. I I I I hear that delegate. You want to be recognized? I do.

1:16:30Um but now there's a motion on the floor, so we have to see if anybody will give it a sec. Second.

1:16:40Motion to amend. Did delegate her did you want to comment? No. Okay. Okay. Clerk Fletcher,

1:16:49I'd ask. I don't see any of these amendments that have been submitted

1:16:52to you before any of the delegates. Well, um, got this at 124 today. Uh,

1:17:02as as those of you who've worked for me a long time know, if I get something

1:17:06from an individual delegate without explicit instructions to send it to other delegates,

1:17:10I don't. So, we can take a break and print this out for everybody if people would like to deal

1:17:17with these particular motions to amend today. Delegate Samson, do you want to be recognized?

1:17:28Thank you. Um, I [clears throat] got a copy of the post changes at around 2:00 this afternoon

1:17:36and I took a look at them around three. They are very extensive. Um, some of them some of them

1:17:45I'm I'm comfortable with. Um, some of them I think almost negate the original intent.

1:17:56Um, I'm concerned about uh replacing so much language and that it uh refers a lot to the

1:18:08county commissioners, which we know that's if if we've approved this, they're just not going to go

1:18:16along with it at all. So, um, although I support the original premise of what we were trying to do,

1:18:25and I did my own research on it, and I brought this up to the committee, um,

1:18:33was, and I I don't want to lose sight here, was there a motion to postpone or

1:18:44no?

1:18:47um to amend a amend there was a motion to amend. Yes, that's what motion. Okay. Motion

1:18:54on the floor, excuse me. Motion on the floor is to amend and that has been seconded. Now,

1:18:58either that mot that second is withdrawn or if it's not withdrawn, then we have to at least then

1:19:06take and each of us get a copy of these amendments and go through them. Or what trumps that would be

1:19:13a motion to postpone if it should succeed. Mr. Chairman, I withdraw my second. The second has

1:19:21been withdrawn. There is no motion to amend on the floor and and I would like to make a motion

1:19:27to postpone this. Um but I want a very specific time limit on it. Um Delegate Gesson is absolutely

1:19:36right. This has been sitting in limbo for three or four months with with no work on it that I'm aware

1:19:41of anyway. That I'm aware of. And I think that um we should look at this and uh talk about the

1:19:50issues and bring it back before the committee in the near future. Second. Okay. Yeah, I I heard a

1:19:57second. Yes. And may I add I think delegate guest please wait to be recognized before speaking. Yes.

1:20:05Sorry, I gotta work this section. It's a little different from what I'm working with. Go ahead.

1:20:11you. I thought Delegate Frederickson, please let me clar clarify what has been made as a motion.

1:20:18I thought you said you wanted a date certain. I didn't hear a date certain. No, but I I I would

1:20:24like to suggest that that be it has to be part of the motion if you want to make that motion.

1:20:28Um October 7th. October. October 7th. Does that does that give the committee time to meet again

1:20:39to discuss it? I think there's no for two weeks. I mean, three almost three weeks I think. So, then

1:20:44I'd say October 7th for uh a potential vote. I'm in my second to that. Now, I see Delegate Gesson's

1:20:53hand. Go ahead, Delegate Gesson. Sure. Uh and and I'll I'll support in in in good faith a motion to

1:21:01postpone to the next meeting. I'm not happy about it. I think we had a committee process. We've had

1:21:07this proposal in front of us for months. Um it's not the first major piece of legislation that has

1:21:15received um a slew of last minute amendments to it um in unwritten or unpresented format at the last

1:21:25minute in front of the assembly which last time led to 5 hours of debate. This time is leading

1:21:31to a 3-week delay um which is not insignificant. uh proposal. It's not, in my opinion, the right

1:21:39way to do business. It It's not a productive way to have sound policy be presented. Um and and in

1:21:48general, this received four out of five votes for favorable recommendation out of committee.

1:21:55Um and I believe the committee would have been an appropriate place to consider some of these

1:22:01amendments. Uh positively or negatively for the full recommendation assembly.

1:22:05There's no reason that after 6 months we couldn't have already considered these amendments. Um,

1:22:10nevertheless, in the interest of of giving these amendments a fair shake and of making sure we can

1:22:16pass the strongest and best protections for folks in our community, I'll support putting this off

1:22:23uh for for a meeting until the first meeting of October. Thank you. Anyone else want to speak

1:22:30to the motion to postpone to a date certain? I see. Delegate Frederickson, please. Yeah,

1:22:37thank you. And I don't mean to be difficult, which seems to be the impression, and I get that. And uh

1:22:42but uh just for the record, I did submit um about three pages worth of uh documents to the speaker,

1:22:51which was shared with I'm not sure who, and I know u uh Mr. Dutton received a copy of it and was

1:22:59um pleased with some of the recommendations in it. And um despite what you might be hearing,

1:23:06I think if you go through that and we have one more meeting, we will have a better document that

1:23:12uh um that can be supported and understood. And the reality is that most of the stuff is

1:23:20already covered um with the protect Act and we will clarify some other things. There are

1:23:26employee issues. There are jurisdictional issues with between the um the uh delegates and the

1:23:35commissioners. But I think we can work most of that out and I'm willing to put the time in to

1:23:39do it. And again, I am, you know, we have sat on this, but we knew nothing about it till there was

1:23:46uh it was posted Friday and a meeting Monday. and I arranged my schedule, had to work from my

1:23:52truck with documents, and I couldn't give you the full um understanding of what I would like

1:23:59to see changed. But I think that uh I think we can do a better job with it. And I don't mean

1:24:05any disrespect to anybody. And sometimes I can come across like that, but um I don't because uh

1:24:11I am a strong believer of teamwork and you better get a better decision with a group.

1:24:20Thank you, delegate Frederickson. Any other delegate comment on the motion?

1:24:26Just my own comments. Procedurally, I do not like last minute amendments being put forth,

1:24:32especially on something which has been in the hopper for quite some time. Um, and we can't,

1:24:40I believe, do business well if a delegate submits last minute amendments and then we postpone a vote

1:24:48on critical ordinances, especially those that have been debated by the full assembly and have

1:24:53been considered by committees more than once. So while I it appears that we will postpone this,

1:25:00I really would hope the delegates um won't tolerate this kind of procedure as we go

1:25:08forward because I think it's very disruptive to the business of the assembly. Any other comments

1:25:14from delegates? Okay, it's been motion made and seconded. Call the role. Delegate Ferson. Yes.

1:25:26Uh, Deputy Superelo, yes. Delegate Fuller, yes. Delegate Gallagher, no. Delegate Gasson,

1:25:34yes. Delegate Green. Delegate Harter, no. Delegate Kellian, yes. Delegate King,

1:25:43yes. Delegate Mckelby, yes. Delegate Mali, no. Dean Omen, no. Delegate Samson, yes. Delegate Tai,

1:25:53no. Peter Warner is absent. Um believe that I have it at eight. Yes. Is representing 70.05%

1:26:01of the county's population. Motion to postpone carries. This will be taken up at our next

1:26:06meeting on October 7th. And before that time, the committee will meet and uh review all of

1:26:11these amendments. And we certainly hope the 7th is the final day to consider this up or down

1:26:20um by the assembly. Thank you everyone. Thank you delegate Frederickson. I appreciate I know they're

1:26:25making these mo these amendments in good faith. I understand that. Thank you. I appreciate that.

1:26:34Next item on our agenda is a report from the standing committee on government affairs. Um

1:26:38and because I was the chair of that committee, I will not read the report. I have asked the

1:26:43vice chair the dean to read that report. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. [clears throat] The standing

1:26:50committee on government affairs and rules met on September 14th with oral meeting only. The

1:26:57committee on government affairs rules met on September 14, 2026 to deliberate on public

1:27:01ballot education for resolution 26-10 regarding the proposed elected charter study commission.

1:27:08With early voting approaching, our goal is distilling complex charter information into

1:27:13a clear 30 secondond elevator speech for voters on question 10. Turning to our key findings. One,

1:27:20proposed charter body is the proposed charter body is a 19 member commission with four appointed

1:27:26seats reserved for regional leadership. Two, voting powers based on a weighted vote by town

1:27:32population significantly impacting smaller towns. Three, voters must select commission candidates

1:27:40before voting on whether this commission should even exist. Four, this commission holds a broad

1:27:46mandate for fundamental structural changes, including potential elimination of the assembly

1:27:51delies or elimination of the county commissioners. Our committee experienced active debate regarding

1:27:58our messaging strategy. Committee chair Fisel and I advocated limiting official communications

1:28:04strictly to verified objective technical facts. Conversely, delegates Lilianne Green, Brian Ali,

1:28:12James Killian, and Elizabeth Hart argued that voters must explicitly be warned about risks,

1:28:17specifically how structural consolidation could eliminate guaranteed town local representation.

1:28:23Delegate Green recommended the board outreach using press releases, web,

1:28:27frequently asked questions, QR codes, flyers, and social media. However,

1:28:31delegate heart raised serious open meeting law concerns regarding delegates using social media.

1:28:40Keep going. Because our members held six differing opinions, we voted not to force false a false

1:28:47consensus. I move that the assembly of delegates authorize assembly leadership to work with the

1:28:52board of regional commissioners and the regional administrator and to add to the official voter

1:28:57education materials on the Bonsible County website regarding the proposed charter study commission by

1:29:02incorporating the following points. One, unlike routine five-year charter reviews conducted by

1:29:09the assembly, an elected charter study commission holds statutory authority to recommend fundamental

1:29:14wholesale structural changes to regional that is county government. Two, selecting town commission

1:29:20representatives and deciding whether to establish the commission are two distinct ballot decisions

1:29:25allowing voters to choose a candidate to represent their town while voting no on

1:29:30creating the commission. Very confusing, but the voters need to hear that in loud and clear terms.

1:29:36The commission consists of 19 members totaling comprising 15 town elected delegates along

1:29:41with four designated by right members or their design but appointed by the board of regional

1:29:46commissioners and the assembly speaker. Voting within the commission utilizes population-based

1:29:51voting weighted voting rather than equal per capita voting and these weights must account

1:29:55for the four by right members on their design thereby listening the weighted vote percentages

1:30:01allocated to individual town delegates. Question 10 appears last on the regional budget and is

1:30:07omitted by the secretary of state 68 page voter balllet that I got yesterday detailing the nine

1:30:14statewide questions. So getting the fact that there is a 10th question will be difficult

1:30:18because it's specifically only for Baron County residents and voters. Thank you. Thank you for

1:30:25that report uh Dean. Now we're in the process of making copies of that motion for everyone here so

1:30:31you can see it. There's a lot to digest there. Um and also to make it available to those of us who

1:30:37are attending remotely. So is it going to be on the Zoom? I think soon. Um um what uh this tries

1:30:45to do is try to shape this discussion. I think the result of the committee's meeting was to open this

1:30:51decision to the full assembly. Um and in order to shape that discussion, we need a motion. And so

1:30:58this motion is an attempt to get this on the floor for all of us to consider. and deliberate. This is

1:31:05really adding to resolution 10 which we adopted at our last meeting. Um some additional educational

1:31:12points about the charter commission. So it doesn't change resolution 10. It doesn't amend resolution

1:31:2010. But what it does do is it does provide a little more information for the voter on the

1:31:26website concerning the consequences of a vote yes on the charter commission. So, with that,

1:31:34um, you all see what's that's on the screen. Excuse me. Um, I'll open the floor for any

1:31:40discussion. We He did move. Didn't you move? I don't I don't I I did. I thought I moved. I

1:31:47did. I didn't hear a second, but thank you. Okay, delegate. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. This is perfect.

1:31:56Well, nothing's perfect, [laughter] but uh except me. But um no, this is exactly I think this covers

1:32:04everything um [clears throat] that those of us who are concerned about. Um I think it's very

1:32:11clear. Um there's only one thing [clears throat] that I don't know if we just want to mention it

1:32:17here or if we want to add it to this. The county website is completely wrong. It still talks about

1:32:27how to run to be your town's representative on the commission, which hasn't been true for months. So,

1:32:38I'm I'm wondering what is going [clears throat] on at the county, not we're county, too, at the um at

1:32:50the website. um [clears throat] whether it's due to the commissioners or what, but it's it's still

1:32:57incorrect and that worries me about our initial um ordinance linking to the website. Thank you.

1:33:05Coach, did you want to say something on this? I did. I mean, Emma and I are not in charge of that

1:33:10specifically. However, county staff works very hard and they don't have a lot of resources and

1:33:16capacity. What I would assume is this website was made uh by county staff in consultation with KP

1:33:23Law and the board and the speaker and the deputy speaker before that process happened. And there's

1:33:28no excuse it should be current and updated, but it's not. And we can talk to county staff tomorrow

1:33:34about making sure that at least it reflects where we are in the process. But um they work hard,

1:33:39they listen. Sometimes websites don't get updated. But could I can I ask on that point though? Can't

1:33:44someone still get on the ballot by sticker and run? Uh what we were So my understanding

1:33:52if I might to the speaker is that when Lauren Goldberg who uh is managing partner of KP Law and

1:33:59County Council and the Assembly's chosen charter council when she was last in front of the board,

1:34:03what she said was in lie of somebody being on the ballot for charter commission and off the top of

1:34:09my head I don't remember which towns but there are a couple. Um, I actually tried to get the whole

1:34:15list from the Secretary of State today. It's not on the website. I wasn't able to, but um, you if

1:34:21there's nobody on the ballot or even if there is somebody on the ballot, you could certainly mount

1:34:25a right in campaign to be that person. Um, as a matter of fact, she expressed the concern that in

1:34:31lie of someone being on the ballot, someone with two signatures, three signatures can win. Um,

1:34:36and we've had people on the assembly before who are here because of writing campaigns. So,

1:34:41uh, it would be hard, not editorialized, but it would be hard for someone to overcome someone on

1:34:45the ballot with a writing campaign, but they could try. Um, and certainly with nobody on the ballot,

1:34:51I know for I think for sure Truro has nobody who um put in um um signatures to be nominated for the

1:34:58charter commission. So, there's still a process to get on the commission if you you'd like,

1:35:03but I think we can work with um executive branch staff to make sure that the website is updated to

1:35:09reflect where we are now. I I would recommend that that's how we handle that point, delegate harder,

1:35:14and not by adding it to our uh current uh uh motion. Um I would also point out though,

1:35:20I think it would be hard for someone to write in in this instance, right? Because you have to

1:35:24in order to be a candidate, you have to have submitted a statement of financial

1:35:28interest. So how does someone on a write in basis fulfill that requirement to be qualified? Oh,

1:35:36you we're out of my depth now, but I might I might surmise that you you you can you can do it and and

1:35:43they would make you do an SFI probably before you were sworn. I don't I don't want to talk.

1:35:47I don't know. It happens. I I just I I know that it happens that people write write write in names

1:35:53after people are served by we don't need to deal with that. Any further discussion on the motion?

1:36:03Seeing none, would you call the role? All right. Uh Mr. Speaker,

1:36:08Delegate Frederickson. Delegate Frederickson.

1:36:14Yes. Deputy Speaker Fisowl. Yes. Delegate Fuller. Yes. Delegate Gallagher. Yes. Delegate

1:36:21Gassin. Yes. Delegate Green. Delegate Harter. Yes. Delegate Kellian. Yes. Delegate King.

1:36:29Yes. Delegate Mckelby. Yes. Delegate Ali. Yes. Omen. Yes. Delegate Samson. Yes. Delegate Tai.

1:36:37Yes. Speaker Warner is absent. Mr. Speaker, that is 13 delegates representing 87.52% of

1:36:44the county's population. Hard to do better at that. Great. Thank you everyone. You're doing

1:36:50a great job. We have only one more item of substitute business here and that is

1:36:55um on the agenda as item number 12, orders of the day, discussion of public record requests

1:37:02for legal opinions regarding ordinance 2026-11, which in is the ordinance ensuring community

1:37:09safety and lawful p federal immigration enforcement. And do we have is it delegate?

1:37:15are you going to give us a little um context for this please? Sure I'd be happy to. Um

1:37:25it came to our attention on during discussions about um the immigration ordinance 26-11

1:37:34um regarding a public records request that was submitted uh or several requests were submitted

1:37:40um which resulted in a decision by the custodian of records for Barnstable County to

1:37:48um withhold the four legal or a number of the four legal opinions um that were written at the

1:37:56request of getting more clarification about the authority and power of this ordinance. Um those

1:38:02were withheld under attorney client privileges from a public record request. Um going a little

1:38:09further away from any one individual specific public records request. Um once the committee

1:38:15started discussing the fact that legal opinions like this would be uh withheld by policy of the

1:38:23custodian records and and the county in general uh committee members including myself voiced concerns

1:38:29about the fact that this isn't a transparent way to operate. Uh I know and I can speak for myself

1:38:37separately after I I finish presenting this part of it, but essentially the committee was concerned

1:38:42um about the fact that this wasn't a transparent way to operate um and recommended that the full

1:38:48assembly um discuss some kind of uniform policy where we can work with our attorneys to ensure

1:38:57that we don't by default um restrict public records. just because attorneys were involved

1:39:05in the creation of them. I think that that's an accurate way to describe the conversation

1:39:09before I give my view on it. Uh but happy to defer to any other member of the committee

1:39:13who was there who might believe that I missed anything or or presented anything incompletely.

1:39:23Delegate Samson, you have comment. During the meeting, I was led to believe that the attorneys

1:39:31had specifically um requested My microphone is on. Um I I thought that we were led to believe

1:39:41that the attorneys had specifically uh that wrote the opinion requested that it not be released.

1:39:47And if that's the case, then I'm I certainly want to defer to the attorney's view that it

1:39:54may contain privileged information. Um, so I'm I'm sensitive to that position,

1:40:02as every attorney would be. Delegate her. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Um I do recall um that we were

1:40:12told that um me Talman had also requested baby um what isn't that who [clears throat] sorry

1:40:22uh apparently I I'm incorrect on something. I seem to remember that it was all lawyers asking

1:40:29us to redact any legal opinion, which I can see wanting to do because you don't want to set a

1:40:38precedent. You know, if you plead the fifth, you can't then can't say it's raining outside,

1:40:44right? So, we don't want to set a precedent. But on the other hand, if you read the letters,

1:40:50there's nothing proprietary nor um [clears throat] anything I feel that or or that Delegate Gesson

1:40:59feels that can't be given to the public. You know, there's we're not hiding anything. So, it's it's a

1:41:06uh complicated um debate. [clears throat] Okay. So, I see deleg for one minute. I'll just point

1:41:13out that attorney client privilege, the privilege lies with the client. The client can always wave

1:41:20that privilege. So even though an attorney may protect communications as they have here as a

1:41:27privileged communication, any client can wave that. All right? So the client is in control of

1:41:34the privilege. Just so everyone understands that's how it works. Uh, clerk Fletcher,

1:41:39did you want to say something about the opinion from me? Tailor, I just want to clarify that um

1:41:51I believe that the attorney consulted by the custodian of records was county council,

1:41:57not our attorney. And so, you're not wrong, though. I mean, I I do recall

1:42:02having conversations with our attorneys about it in general, but those of us with legal training,

1:42:07that's different than specifically asking them the question of what should be distributed and what

1:42:11should be redacted. And I don't want to talk about it without reviewing all of the communications

1:42:15that we had. Delegate Kesson. Sure. Um and and even though it might not have come across it,

1:42:23I was trying to be objective in my description of what the committee uh discussed and and now I'm

1:42:28hoping to be less so objective and really explain my view on it. Uh which is, you know, there might

1:42:34be sound legal arguments. I'm not an expert in public records law for us to withhold um you know

1:42:42that the fact that we have the right to withhold some of these legal opinions or the fact that

1:42:47um we you know public records doesn't require us to show them. Nevertheless, um we hold these roles

1:42:56in public trust and we as an assembly are here to a vote on behalf and represent our communities and

1:43:05b deliberate in a way where our communities have an opportunity to understand why we vote the way

1:43:12we do. Um, and I think that is at the core and the spirit of public records law when it comes to the

1:43:18legislative body is the public has a right to know why we're making the decisions we make because

1:43:25um, they have a right to hold us accountable for making those decisions for those reasons. Um, and

1:43:30these legal opinions specifically um, really were created to guide policy decisions. I know they

1:43:39were requested by by leadership of the assembly. Um but they really speak to um the authority that

1:43:45the county has, the effect of these ordinances, um the implementation of these ordinances,

1:43:55um and really core components that make us decide a what whether or not to proceed and b I'm sure

1:44:03guided some delegates uh eventually hopefully on October 7th as to how they might vote on the final

1:44:10product or amendments they I propose um the public deserves to know that. Um so again uh even there

1:44:19are definitely legal opinions that I can see a much stronger case for withholding if it has to do

1:44:25with ongoing litigation um or if it has to do with um contract negotiations of some sort, things that

1:44:37might be addressed in executive session. Uh but really um the attorney client privilege regardless

1:44:43of what the lawyers might have to say as as delegate Fisel said lies with us and and beyond

1:44:48that I don't really believe in in practice it should lie with us. It lies with the public who we

1:44:52represent and the public has the same right to see these proposals as we do. So, I'm a big supporter

1:44:59um that whatever form this resolution or or next step might take that we a make these resol these

1:45:06opinions public and going forward continue to ensuring that our legal opinions that have policy

1:45:14weight to them are accessible to the public. Thank you. I I will recognize the clerk because

1:45:20he will summarize for us the communication we had with Reed Telman about this. meet Taylor. So,

1:45:29unfortunately, we've had four opinions and this communication was about the first two, but what

1:45:35we got from council, I don't know if this is going to muddy the waters for those with legal training.

1:45:39Like, we never recommend sharing confidential legal opinions publicly, but it is a decision

1:45:44for the assembly. The most recent opinions that were provided on the proposed ordinance

1:45:50simply outline the differences of requested, and there's little harm in sharing them.

1:45:56So that's I mean that that would that would let you understand why the result was reached

1:46:02that you know that the custodian of records and KP law reached. But I guess it it I'm

1:46:10not going to editorialize. That's that's the communication I had back in the end of

1:46:15May before the final two opinions that took into account the Protect Act and the board's

1:46:21um the board's amendment of its executive order. So they don't cover the last two. Um but but

1:46:29that was their response when they were asked in that context about the first two. Okay. So, um

1:46:36I see delegate and Dean first and then Elizabeth Harter. I just point out for everyone here that

1:46:43um we need to have some structure on this. All right. So, either we're going to get a motion at

1:46:48some point about this or a motion to do something and dispose of these opinions in one way or

1:46:55another or a referral. I would think it's in the discretion of the speaker, not tonight's speaker,

1:47:01uh but the speaker. um whether this lands in say the government affairs committee for a policy kind

1:47:08of decision tonight would necessarily be a policy. I'll point out that if we do make the disclosure

1:47:12tonight, it is not a precedent that somehow binds us to any future opinions that come out. As I see

1:47:19it, I think what happened is there is an exclusion in public records law for privileged opinions.

1:47:25And KP Law told the records keeper, this is a privileged opinion, therefore it's redacted. Um,

1:47:31which is how we got to where we are today. I I'm [clears throat] not a lawyer, nor do

1:47:36I play one on TV, [laughter] but uh I apparently it's the assembly has to do this and and it will

1:47:44require a vote. Is there any reason why you can't vote on it right now except we need a motion that

1:47:51we that we vote on this u matter? Oh, you have to a motion in what direction? Vote to do what?

1:47:58vote to we'll vote to uh have the assembly uh approve the o opening up of this uh document to

1:48:06the public. Second, delegate harder. Discussion on the motion. I um am very happy to say yes. Um, we

1:48:17can release these letters, but um, Delegate Gesson said and all f and other [clears throat] future

1:48:25policy opinions and I disagree with that. That was not it should be just want to make it clear.

1:48:32I think it should be case by case and not set policy. The motion on the floor would

1:48:40release these opinions that have been redacted. Yeah, these four opinions would be released and

1:48:46that's all that would be released at this time and there'd be no policy about the future.

1:48:53Good. Okay. Delegate Killian, did you want to be recognized? I thought I saw your hand.

1:49:04I was going to just to follow up the fact Owen and I had a brief discussion about this and and

1:49:10having experience with town boards I've been on that we should have some type of policy in

1:49:14place because we get these documents and then we share them with the constituents should we not be

1:49:20I think we have to come up with a solid plan as to how we recognize documents that we may

1:49:25not want to share till we vote on it or ones that are free to be released to the public.

1:49:30I I think it was wise for us to discuss this as an assembly on this and not have any other um party

1:49:37make this decision. Um so that's a good thing. As a policy matter, I will ask the speaker whether

1:49:43she wants to assign the further discussion of this as a policy matter to a particular committee

1:49:49um in which committee would get the assignment or some might say draw the short straw on this. Um,

1:49:56any further discussion on the motion to release these is it guess it. Go ahead. No, I have I have

1:50:04a comment after the vote on this motion. So, I will wait. It is not Germaine. [laughter]

1:50:10Okay, then call the role.

1:50:14Yes, Mr. Speaker. Uh, Delegate Frederickson,

1:50:17I believe, had to hop off. Oh, is he still here? Are you here, Delegate Frederickson?

1:50:25initials are there. Nevertheless, Deputy Speaker Fisel. Yes. Um, yeah, I'm I'm juggling balls here.

1:50:33Yes. No. Yes. Deputy Speaker Fzel. Yes. Delegate Fuller. Yes. Delegate Gallagher.

1:50:40Delegate Gassin. Yes. Delegate Green. Delegate Harter. Yes. Delegate Kellian. Yes. Delegate King.

1:50:50Yes. Delegate Mckelby. Yes. Delegate Amali. Yes. Dean Omen. Yes. Delegate Samson. Yes. Delegates

1:50:58eye. Yes. Speaker Warner. Um, that's an odd thing. Well, I have it at 12 representing 85%

1:51:11of the county's population. So, the motion passes and therefore these will be disclosed. And again

1:51:18folks, it's left of the assembly and the council said that because we are the client. I know what I

1:51:24guess it thinks the public is, but as a technical matter, the client is the assembly and it's in our

1:51:31hands as the client to wave the privilege if we want to. It's not something which we must follow

1:51:38the advice of council. Um okay. So um deleging you said you want to say something after the voter.

1:51:46Yes, originally I was going to make a motion to refer further discussion on setting a concrete

1:51:53policy to the committee on government affairs, but uh Mr. Deputy Speaker, um if you're already

1:52:01going to have that conversation with the speaker, I think that that might be sufficient. Save us a

1:52:05roll call. I'm all in favor of saving roll calls. Um now we move on to the next item

1:52:12on the calendar, which is new business. Any clerk fetcher? Good. Any announcements? Only that now it

1:52:20seems we might have two committee meetings to do before October 7th. Uh we like being busy. Makes

1:52:27life easier. So please be on the lookout. You guys are very responsive. I apologize for contacting so

1:52:34much until uh Delegate Frederickson juggled around to show up, which was very gracious of him. We had

1:52:40we we had some quorum issues. I believe somebody actually came here on a car tire that might not

1:52:45be okay right now. So, please please please uh please help your help your colleagues. So,

1:52:50but we contact you a lot. You're very responsive. Emma and I appreciate that. Or assistant clerk and

1:52:56I appreciate that. We'll be in contact to schedule these meetings. Any further announcements? Yes.

1:53:02Yes, I would ask that if you're going to have these uh meetings um that they be at

1:53:085:00 and not at 4:00 so I can participate if my committee is one of the committees.

1:53:16Julie noted here. The assembly has considered all the items on the calendar. Is there any

1:53:23further business from any delegate? Seeing no hands in the room or on remote Zoom, I declare

1:53:31the meeting is now adjourned and we did it by 6:00. Thank you everyone for your efficiency.

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