2026-09-15 - City Council Work Session

00:04Now convinced Mr. Roberts.

00:08Resolution allowing the Council

00:10to participate in electronic resolution.

00:14Approving participation to electronic communication

00:16meetings by Councilwoman Doyle.

00:18In the September 15th, 2026 City Council meeting due to a

00:21personal matter.

00:22Adopt the resolution.

00:24All right.

00:25Miss Johnson.

00:27Hi, Mr. McGee.

00:28Hi, Mr..

00:29Mr..

00:34Thank you.

00:35Mayor, vice mayor, and members of city Council.

00:36I will take a few moments and give you an overview of the

00:39proposed agenda for this afternoon's work session

00:41meeting and the first presentation.

00:45We will have an update from Mike Davis with Virginia

00:48Department of Transportation.

00:49Mr. Davis is the district engineer for the Hampton Roads

00:52Transportation District, and that relates to HRT paving and

00:58an update on express lanes and other projects that will be

01:02followed by the city planning update.

01:04Planning director Mr. Tahan will provide Council with an

01:08update on items coming to you for a vote from the Planning

01:11Commission, as well as a briefing on Willoughby short

01:13term rental regulations.

01:16So with no following that, we do have one item I'm aware of

01:20that requires consideration of a closed session motion.

01:23And so with no objections or modifications to the agenda, I

01:27would like to invite up to the lectern again, Mr. Davis,

01:31district engineer with Vdot.

01:33This is an update on the fall 2026 HRT tunnel paving, as well

01:37as Hampton Roads Express lanes for the Norfolk segment and the

01:41I-64 I-2 64 interchange improvements.

01:44Mr. Davis.

01:57There we go.

01:58So good afternoon everyone.

01:59Again, my name is Mike Davis, district engineer for Hampton

02:01Roads District for Vdot.

02:03And I'm kind of go through this quick.

02:05I know we're pressed for time, but I wanted to touch on the

02:09first one here.

02:12Okay. Um, we are planning to pave the tunnel HRT.

02:17It's the old tubes.

02:18They were not part of the

02:19contract with HRC and widening out.

02:21And one of the things we're looking for is when HRC is

02:24finished with the project, that they'll you'll go through this

02:27nice, beautiful pavement and then you'd hit deteriorating

02:30pavement of the tunnel.

02:31So this project here is taking care of that issue, getting rid

02:34of the old pavement, putting new pavement down.

02:36It really is just milling about

02:37two inches down, coming through.

02:39We have directional closures tied to this.

02:42Um, and one of the reasons why.

02:45Well, let me go back on this.

02:46One of the reasons why we're paving it really is it's been

02:49since 2012, the last time we paid just one tube of this, um,

02:53this tunnel here, the other was 2006 by our records.

02:58I thought we paid both in 2012.

03:00But our records are showing we only paid one tube.

03:04It's time.

03:05Asphalt typically lasts around 10 to 15 years.

03:07We've got a long life out of this asphalt, and it's time to

03:10get in there and repave it.

03:12We do have these tunnels, have over 1000 vehicles per day

03:15going through them.

03:16So it does take a wear and tear

03:17on the, um, on the pavement itself.

03:20So it's one of those that we

03:22have to get in there and do this.

03:24When I go to the next slide, one of the reasons why we're

03:26bringing up why we're doing a directional closure, it's so

03:30tight in these tunnels.

03:31Now, this picture, if you look close enough, you'll see this

03:33is monitor-merrimac with the curved walls.

03:35Didn't have a good picture of the tunnel project when we paid

03:37back in 2012, but the concept is the same to get the military

03:41equipment in there, you don't have much of a roadway for

03:44traffic to run down and the people to work safely, so we do

03:47a directional closure.

03:48Same thing with the paving group.

03:50Crew comes in.

03:51It's that same concept.

03:53We're trying to keep the workers safe and the traveling

03:55public safe to.

03:57With that, the construction timelines, we're looking at the

04:00week of October the 2nd through the fifth, the ninth through

04:04the 12th.

04:05And the way we have this set up is the original contract

04:08allowed the contractor to pay one lane per weekend with an

04:11incentive tied to the end of it.

04:13Contractor approached us and they believe they can pay both

04:17lanes in one weekend by bringing in a lot more

04:20additional manpower equipment than what we previously put in

04:23the contract.

04:24We had emergency backup equipment in the contract, so

04:27we're going to try it the first weekend to see if they can pave

04:31two lanes.

04:32We do have some precautions set in there where they're still

04:34going to pave one lane at a time, but they're bringing a

04:37lot of manpower in so they can pave one.

04:39Go to the second lane.

04:41We have a go no go call at the time.

04:43They go to the second lane to make sure they have enough time

04:46to finish that out.

04:47The goal is to get a lane paved and back open to traffic

04:51with that, um, our contract requirements, Like I said, it's

04:55one lane being milled and paved at a time.

04:58Contractor is going to try to go with two lanes for the

05:00weekend, but it's still that concept one lane at a time.

05:04Coordination and backup plans.

05:05I kind of touched on that in the contract.

05:08We asked them to make sure they have extra milling machines,

05:11pavers, skid steers, rollers, just about anything you can

05:14think of.

05:15We're paying up front to have that parked on the island, so

05:17if the equipment goes down, it is there.

05:19We have coordination and backup plans with the equipment,

05:22including, um, tow trucks.

05:25We put it in the contract.

05:26Plus we have tow trucks on island in case we have problems

05:29with one of the other tunnels or even their equipment.

05:31If it breaks down, we have the tow trucks handy to grab it and

05:34yank it out of there as quick as possible.

05:36The whole intent is to get the tube paved in a weekend and

05:39back open to traffic before Monday rush hour.

05:41We have been coordinating with the cities around.

05:44We are setting up some meetings.

05:46My district construction engineer has met with

05:48localities that will be affected by the detour plan

05:52coming through.

05:54We are coordinate with the City of Norfolk Police and also the

05:57City of Hampton Police as we manage through this and VSP on

06:01the project to.

06:02Contractors, coordinate with local law enforcement to.

06:05But we're involved in that also

06:08emergency contingencies.

06:11So this first part really is when we have a tube shut down,

06:14be it eastbound or westbound, we always have that one lane.

06:18That's, I don't want to say

06:20open to traffic, but it is available.

06:22And that's if we have an emergency responder that has to

06:25get through quick.

06:26We have an accident in the other tunnel.

06:27We have to get through to the other island.

06:29We have a provision in the contract to tell the contractor

06:32to squeeze in tight and let the emergency vehicle run through

06:35the tunnel to get to the other side as needed.

06:38Is this a provision we put in there?

06:39From lessons learned for the last time we paved.

06:43We also have in there that if we have any types of issues

06:46with the other two crossings,

06:48major backups that start to impact.

06:50We have an emergency demobilization in the contract

06:53where we tell the contractor,

06:54pull all the equipment out of there.

06:56We will close down the lane they build, but we'll have that

06:59one lane open at all times to get the queue back through.

07:02We'll close it down once the queue clears up and then

07:06continue with the paving.

07:07So we were looking at all possible contingencies moving

07:10into this contract.

07:12With this, our detour plan we show is we're shutting down

07:15around fourth view on 64 and Mallory Street on the peninsula

07:20side of 64.

07:22The detour would take 6064 all the way around to 664.

07:25We show this detour to traveling public will probably

07:28find alternate routes going through as they hit the Midtown

07:31downtown tunnels, Jordan

07:33Bridge, all of them are potentials.

07:35We just show the one that's open to the public.

07:38664 at 64, all the way through this, we are coordinating with

07:43the city of Newport News and the County of Isle of Wight.

07:46That's in regards to route 17.

07:49Those two, the tunnel itself, Monitor-merrimac and 17 are

07:52going to have enhanced traffic moving through because we shut

07:55this one tunnel down.

07:56So we have precautions in place there to to make sure the

08:00traffic is moving through.

08:01We coordinated with Suffolk to make sure we don't have any

08:04construction projects there, construction projects on 17 and

08:08Alawite to both have come back and said they will have those

08:11roadways cleared for us to come through on these dates.

08:15We did incentivize the contractor that if they finish

08:18early, they'll get a significant bonus.

08:20We did disincentivize it that if they're late getting out of

08:23the roadway come rush hour and

08:25some hefty penalties tied to that.

08:27So it's one of those that we got a carrot, we got a stick.

08:30Hopefully we get to use the carrot.

08:32That's the goal.

08:33And sitting down with the

08:34contractors on president for Virginia.

08:36We discussed this.

08:37They know the concerns we have.

08:39They are running two different plants.

08:40The capability of switching from one plant to the other in

08:43case one plant drops down.

08:45Um,

08:46so some good incentives tied to this.

08:49And the contractor is anxious to work towards those.

08:53The goals of our communication plan.

08:54We are reaching out to build

08:56widespread awareness about this project.

08:59We're ensuring the motorists understand we're driving

09:02advanced trip planning and informed travel decisions.

09:04We're pushing this information out.

09:06You'll see a schedule coming up soon.

09:08We just started that.

09:10I know our PR, our communication group, has

09:12reached out to the localities with their communication group

09:15to get information flowing through its delivery timely,

09:19consistent information before and during the closures.

09:23With that, this is the schedule you'll see.

09:25September 14th, we started to launch this information going

09:28out to the public.

09:30Um, we'll keep ramping that up until the day it starts and

09:33then it changes.

09:34We are paving, um, we will have message boards out there.

09:37I've got another slide coming to that, um, reaching out to

09:40all the social media that we can to get the word out of this

09:44closure coming up.

09:46This is part of what I was going over.

09:48one.

09:49It's a full closure from Friday 9 p.m.

09:52all the way till Monday.

09:545:05 a.m..

09:55Okay, so no tunnel that that

09:57direction is open at all, correct?

10:00Correct.

10:02If the contractor with the incentive, that's where the

10:04contractor gets out.

10:06They make a lot of money.

10:08We know ML is all coming to Norfolk the end of the ninth

10:1310th that weekend.

10:14We've provided dates of major events as well as university

10:18football games, and those are of primary concern.

10:23If I go back to the dates, if everything if everything works

10:26right, the contractor will

10:27knock out one tube in one weekend.

10:30The next weekend we will skip

10:32going into the following weekend.

10:33That will help alleviate some of the concerns y'all have.

10:36Then all.

10:41Going back to the planned communication tactics, we are

10:44reaching out to the social media ads.

10:46Digital ads We're pushing information out

10:50through our own

10:53sites, the web pages, the project pages.

10:55We do release a lot of information from our projects,

10:57including express lanes and HRT expansion projects, all pushing

11:01information out about this event.

11:03Coming up with this, this is some of the samples of concepts

11:07that are moving out, um,

11:11with our communication team in the front of this,

11:15with that, that was all I had for the tunnel paving project.

11:19Everything is moving forward with that.

11:21Like I said, we're, we're, we're communicating across the

11:24whole region, trying to make

11:25sure everyone's aware of it's coming.

11:27Um, more to come.

11:29If anything, a weather event, that would be the only thing

11:31that would stop us from that first weekend.

11:34If it's raining like crazy, we can't we can't shut the tunnel

11:37down now.

11:39So we'll keep everyone posted as we keep moving forward.

11:41With that.

11:43Y'all ask that we touch on the express lanes, mainly the two

11:46projects within y'alls own domain.

11:49Well, actually three projects.

11:50Um, so this is a map of our express lanes all the way from

11:53the peninsula to Bowers Hill.

11:55And the two that's sitting

11:56within the city of Norfolk is HREL1A.

11:59That's the project that goes

12:00from Patrol Road to Tidewater Drive.

12:03Everything is lining up to where by the end of this year

12:06it will be open.

12:07Um, no issues there.

12:09I've got fall 2026.

12:11It will be open by the fall of 2026, no later than December.

12:15Um, we do have a small contract running within it.

12:19It's working on the Willoughby Bridge, but that's planned to

12:22be finished by the same time.

12:23So this project is moving forward pretty good.

12:26HEL1B is a large project that

12:29just got executed a few months back.

12:32It's a design build project, so it takes time in a design build

12:35for the contractor to start to put their design together.

12:38That's why it's quiet right now.

12:40They are in the process of getting drawings to us approved

12:44for them to start work, you will start seeing activity

12:47relatively any.

12:48Any day now they'll start showing up in force, probably

12:52major road barricades being set up.

12:55You'll probably see that probably more towards the fall

12:58to spring of next year, but you'll see them out there

13:02working on this project.

13:03This project is designed build

13:06with a fixed completion date of 2029.

13:08For y'all that don't know this one, B is predominantly putting

13:12a shoulder express lane in.

13:14It runs parallel with the reversible lanes so that when

13:18the reversible is are running towards the base, we will have

13:21a shoulder lane running the opposite direction.

13:23So it would be eastbound with reversible or westbound.

13:26That way we have that continuous express lane going

13:29both directions.

13:30Until this is built, the rest of the express lane for a B4C,

13:35they're finalizing this coming fall to um, there will be

13:39segments that are open up there.

13:41Um, but we will have continuity running all the way through to

13:44the tunnel.

13:45Get past the tunnel.

13:46It'll pick back up, running through with the Reversibles

13:49all the way to Bowers Hill.

13:50Because we have segment two finished back in 2024.

13:54The project that just is into.

13:57We have noticed proceed.

13:59So so we're still we're still we have a 264, 64 phase three,

14:05a project, a large project contractor was the best scorer,

14:10best price.

14:11It's in the process of final procurement going into a notice

14:14to proceed this project, I would say probably within about

14:182 or 3 months, we'll have an

14:20executed contract with the contractor.

14:22It's that same concept.

14:24It's a design build.

14:25You're not going to see a lot of information or a lot of work

14:28out there until they start getting drawings submitted to

14:30us to review and approve and

14:32probably give them about eight months.

14:33Then you'll start seeing them

14:34show up in force out on a project.

14:37This project goes from, um, basically North Hampton

14:40Boulevard coming eastbound.

14:43It hits the flyover going to 264 eastbound.

14:46It's replacing that flyover with a two lane flyover and

14:50doing improvements from Northampton to the 264 offramp

14:54to Norfolk.

14:56So it will, when finished, help alleviate a lot of traffic

14:58issues out there.

15:00Plus it'll put the shoulder lane in for the express lanes.

15:05If we can get this working, I have a video that our

15:09communication team put together and I'm going to see.

15:16If we cannot get this work and

15:17what I'll do is send a link to y'all.

15:20Um. Oh, good.

15:43Denbigh Boulevard in Newport News to the I64I264I664.

15:49Bowers Hill Interchange in Chesapeake.

15:51The newest express lanes in Norfolk are being constructed

15:55in two phases, first between Tidewater Drive and patrol

15:58roads spanning two miles, followed by another seven miles

16:02from west of I 264 to Tidewater Drive.

16:06While many are familiar with the full time express lanes on

16:09I-64 reversible roadway in Norfolk, these two projects

16:14should have sailed.

16:15A little bit of technical

16:16difficulty wasn't meant to be read.

16:31In one direction at a time in the morning, they provide a

16:34reliable alternative when

16:36traveling to city managers involved

16:38in the

16:40In the afternoon.

16:47Let me go ahead.

16:48I'll advance to the next line.

16:49Thank you.

16:50Sir. Yeah.

16:52Okay.

16:56There we.

16:56Go.

16:58So when we're talking about the express lanes, one of the

17:00things I wanted to make sure that everyone understood our

17:04express lanes are set up, that if you have two or more people

17:07in the vehicle and you have a flex responder, it's free.

17:11So two people in a car can go into the express lanes and ride

17:16for free with the flex responder.

17:18It's the one person in a car.

17:20If they want to use the express lane, they have an easy pass.

17:23They'll get charged for going in.

17:25But the whole intent of Express Lane is to give a continuous

17:28service of continuity from Denbigh Boulevard up in that

17:32area of peninsula all the way to Bowers Hill.

17:34So if they get in when we're finished with this, they'll get

17:37in at Bowers Hill Within less

17:39than an hour they should come out.

17:41Denbigh come out at Bower's Hill working through the

17:44express lanes.

17:45Once we finish out all the projects tied to this express

17:48lane network, it is one of those that it's always that

17:51free option.

17:51That's the general purpose lanes.

17:53There's the free option.

17:54If you have two or more people in there, it's when you have

17:57the one person that drives into the express lanes.

18:00Um, with that,

18:03I believe that's all I had.

18:05I didn't know if y'all had any questions.

18:08Maybe 1 or 2 questions.

18:09Mr. Clinton, I just wanted.

18:11To go back to slide 11 on the calendar.

18:14Um, in October, I noticed on the 23rd to the 25th you had

18:17homecoming, which I assume was homecoming.

18:20But, um, I just want to and I guess there's no work taking.

18:23That's just an awareness.

18:25Let them know that it's going

18:25to happen again based on your colors.

18:28Yes.

18:29Okay. Because the ninth, I guess ninth, 10th and 11th at

18:32Norfolk State's homecoming.

18:33And so I just want to make sure that we're making sure that

18:35they have the same amount of communication because there

18:38should be a lot of people coming here.

18:39Absolutely. Absolutely.

18:42When I get back into the office tomorrow, I'll get with the

18:45communication team.

18:46Typically, we reach out to the locality, to the to the

18:49community colleges, colleges and just make sure that they

18:52understand what's going on.

18:53Also, you know.

18:54Questions? Yes, sir.

18:57This may be a reach.

18:59Uh, what type of disaster preparedness program do we have

19:02in place for these weekends, knowing that we have limited

19:05ways in and out, uh, of the city based on the interstate.

19:10What things do we have in place just in case?

19:12And the fact that we have the

19:13world's largest naval base here.

19:15Yes. So one of the things like going back to the beginning of

19:17this, where we talked about there is always the possibility

19:20of one lane.

19:21We can open up fairly quick, pull the contractor out of

19:24there, and we'll have one lane for that tube opened up.

19:27Um, that is part of the plans.

19:29We have enhanced, you know, monitoring of, of the network

19:32itself to make sure.

19:33So in an event like that, it would be one of those.

19:37We would pull that contractor out as quick as we can open it

19:40up to at least one lane.

19:41One of the things that gives us

19:42trouble is riding on a mill road.

19:45It's not like the interstate or back road or city road.

19:48You get into the tunnel riding on that mill surface with the

19:51potholes or with the manhole covers, tractor trailers going

19:55in there and starting to bounce, and they start hitting

19:57the ceiling tiles.

19:59So that's where we will not allow traffic on a milled

20:02surface, but we will allow it on that lane beside it.

20:04So that should take care of a lot of the issues if it comes

20:06up that way, you know, and like I said, we are monitoring heavy

20:12Monitor-merrimac Bridge Tunnel and James River bridge to make

20:15sure we don't cause too much of a backup and open that queue up

20:18if we have to.

20:19This is.

20:21No offense to anybody, but.

20:22Yesterday.

20:23Was horrible and I was out at Ocean View Little League Field

20:28and the traffic was still backed up after 9 p.m.

20:31from that.

20:33So people sat in traffic for three hours, 2 to 3 hours

20:36yesterday just from going to Wembley.

20:39Yeah. So um, the major concern, you know, with the backups that

20:43are going to happen.

20:45So.

20:46So that's one of those I do not disagree with you.

20:49It started out with tractor trailer hit ceiling tiles.

20:52It shut it down that caused that initial backup.

20:56So then when you start opening up to one lane, you've got this

20:58big queue behind you.

20:59You're trying to get through.

21:01And also, no, it it was a rough

21:05afternoon, late night last night.

21:07I just want to make sure.

21:09In the.

21:10Future.

21:10With that,

21:13where the coordination was with trying to help people get out

21:18and go in different directions.

21:19Because once you get down to Tidewater Drive and Ocean View,

21:24there really is no way to get out unless we have police or we

21:30have assistance from the state police with allowing people to

21:34either go down different lanes and different directions.

21:37But there were people that were trapped in that traffic for a

21:41very long time.

21:42Um, and, you know, uh, and going into panic mode.

21:46So we've got to figure out a way that we can reroute cars.

21:51Um, in those situations.

21:53I don't think it would take that much, uh, people just

21:55sitting around and saying, when that happens, can we get people

21:59out of ocean view, um, and reverse it so that they can go

22:04in a different direction or get, let them turn, make

22:08illegal U-turns, but have police there, um, and get back

22:11out so they can go through the monitor, Merrimack or other

22:13places, which people could not do that last night.

22:16Um, and there was emergency vehicles.

22:18I'm sure if you pull it up, you'll see that we're trapped

22:21in that traffic and could not get down to Willoughby.

22:24Um, I'm surprised Martin hasn't heard it yet.

22:26And Jeremy, but there was a, it was very, very difficult and

22:30very hard to get down and in that area, and people could not

22:33get home because driveways were blocked, roads were blocked.

22:37So we've just got to do better coordination and planning to

22:41protect our folks.

22:43Um, you know, in the future.

22:45Thank you sir.

22:46For you for your time.

22:47One thing I would add, um, if you could spend some money, uh,

22:51in, uh, advancing a communication plan in advance

22:57for your signage, but you may want to get on radio, social

23:00media, and other platforms to let drivers know

23:05when

23:06things are going to be shut down so they can avoid going

23:10that way in the first place.

23:11Because to Mr. Springer's point, once someone is on 64,

23:14it's very difficult to get off.

23:16Yes, sir.

23:16All right.

23:17Thank you for your time.

23:18We are going to leave some brochures here.

23:21We'll take care of.

23:24Presentation.

23:25Mr..

23:32Thank you, Mr. Mayor.

23:33Vice mayor, members of city council.

23:35I have a number of items to brief you on for the planning

23:37update, with a number of them being text amendments to the

23:40zoning ordinance, as well as two regular planning items.

23:44The first item is zoning text amendment to amend to allow

23:48additional uses by conditional

23:50use permit in the Airport District.

23:53The area here you see is in blue.

23:54That is the airport district.

23:55It does not affect these text.

23:57Amendment changes do not affect the properties owned by the

23:59airport that are off the airport property.

24:03The first site that is being affected within the airport is

24:06at the end of the former crosswind runway.

24:09The airport is looking to hopefully

24:13allow for a hotel and a conference center in this area.

24:16Um the current the current zoning ordinance only allows

24:20that within the main terminal complex.

24:22And this would allow the use to

24:23be outside of the terminal complex.

24:25But again, on the airport property by conditional use

24:27permit, which would also include conference center and

24:30banquet hall.

24:33The other.

24:34The other site is off of Azalea Garden Road.

24:37Um. I'm sorry, off of Robin Hood Road.

24:40Um, at the turn where the

24:41viewing area is for the airport.

24:44The airport is hoping to get an additional use of gas station

24:48with a convenience store, which is not permitted unless it's

24:51within the terminal complex.

24:52At least a convenience store.

24:54Uh, the proposed amendment here is to allow the gas station

24:56inside and outside of the airport terminal complex by

24:59conditional use permit.

25:00And as I noted before, convenience stores are

25:03permitted by conditional use permit in that area.

25:09Um, one additional item is to address restaurants within the

25:12existing terminal complex.

25:14The existing terminal complex was in place and under

25:16operation prior to the city's initial utilization of the

25:20special exception or conditional use permit process

25:22for restaurants that serve alcohol and have entertainment.

25:25The proposed amendment is just only inside the terminal

25:27complex to allow restaurants to have alcohol and entertainment

25:32enclosed by 2 p.m.

25:33by. Right again.

25:34This is in the main terminal complex only, which these uses

25:38currently exist, and it would just continue to allow those

25:42without having them to be vested in that use

25:46by a 6 to 0 vote.

25:47The Planning Commission recommends approval of the

25:49proposed requests.

25:55The next item is a zoning text.

25:57Amendment by the Planning Commission was requested by the

25:59Riverview Business Association, who raised concerns about

26:02window coverings and signage in existing buildings.

26:04This revision would provide clarity and guidance, clear

26:07guidance to inspectors and business owners on what they're

26:10allowed to place in their front facades, and how transparent it

26:14has to be.

26:15Currently, the zoning ordinance allows for front facades of

26:18buildings in the river, in the pedestrian commercial overlay

26:22districts to be required to be open, be 50% transparent.

26:26Um,

26:28that provided an opportunity where there was some confusion

26:31because there are some, especially in the Riverview

26:33business corridor where the sun, when it, when it rises in

26:36a certain direction, when it rises, it goes directly into

26:40some of the businesses.

26:41There had been a long standing zoning determination that

26:43allowed for shades to be put down to block the sun out, but

26:47they had to be removed or raised up when there was no

26:49active sun, but it was not codified.

26:52Um. At the request of the Riverview Business Association,

26:54after meetings with staff, they

26:56request to go ahead and codify that.

26:58So it's clear for owners and operators in that area when

27:02they're allowed to keep their shades down in that area and

27:05how much transparency they're allowed to have.

27:10By 6 to 0 vote, the Planning Commission recommends approval.

27:14And again, this clarifies the requirements for all windows in

27:17in the Riverview business area.

27:22The next item was a companion zoning text amendment to this.

27:26But at the request of the Planning Commission, it was

27:28changed to a city wide text amendment.

27:31This amendment is to deal with concerns raised over temporary

27:35window signage for existing buildings.

27:37This revision to the zoning ordinance would give business

27:40owners and inspectors clear guidance on how to calculate

27:42temporary window signs.

27:43The current zoning regulations

27:45allow for windows to be covered 30%

27:49for 30% of the total windows to

27:51be covered by temporary window signage.

27:54What that ended up doing was cause unintended consequences

27:57of allowing them to group signage in certain areas, while

28:00the other areas were allowed to continue to be open, which was

28:02not the intended use of the temporary signage regulations.

28:09Here are a couple examples.

28:10One is the.

28:11On the left is a design of a building showing the necessary

28:14fenestration and transparency for a building.

28:16And then the one on the right is where a business would cover

28:20signage to have additional.

28:25Advertisements.

28:28These are also other locations, not as egregious, but also, um,

28:32depending on depending on the calculation.

28:34These are close between the 30%

28:35requirement for the total signage.

28:38But again, an unattended consequence of covering more

28:40windows than necessary as you look at them.

28:43Um, and, uh, it can be difficult for the zoning

28:46inspector to calculate.

28:50This is an example of one that would be compliant, where

28:53there's one window sign in, in each window limited to a

28:57specific size.

28:58And this was the intention of that 30% regulation.

29:01Unfortunately, the way the text was written, it allowed for for

29:05groupings in, in windows, calculating it based off the

29:08total window signage.

29:11So the text amendment would clarify the regulations for

29:13temporary window signage.

29:15It would it would allow one temporary window sign per

29:18window, um, up to on a calculation of every ten feet.

29:22So you would measure the frontage of the of the building

29:25and the windows, and you would get for every ten feet one

29:28temporary window sign.

29:29It defines what a windows is for that purpose.

29:32And it also states that they can have assigned no larger

29:35than 15ft with a dimension

29:37larger, no larger than five feet.

29:39But it can also not be more than 30% of that window.

29:42So essentially, you would have one sign, and you can only have

29:45one third of the window covered, and you can't have

29:47them grouped together.

29:48So it would, it would it's more clearly labeled here.

29:51And then you would have no more than five signs per business.

29:53If they happen to have a large

29:55enough frontage to allow for it.

29:58If adopted, staff will begin informing businesses of the

30:01signage requirements and providing them brochures and

30:04understanding how to comply with the time frame being

30:07allotted for the temporary windows.

30:09Signs are permitted to be up for three months and should be

30:12required to be removed.

30:14So we would give them the opportunity, with that

30:16approval, to slowly transition out over the next three months

30:19once it's adopted.

30:22By 6 to 0 vote.

30:23The Planning Commission does recommend approval of the

30:25proposed tax amendment.

30:30Okay.

30:33The next item is an additional zoning text amendment and a

30:35rezoning to create the Industrial Mixed Use Overlay

30:38District and to also rezone the property at 1311 Redgate Avenue

30:42to add this zoning

30:43classification to the existing property.

30:47This stemmed from a from interest from the Chelsea

30:49Business Association to introduce additional commercial

30:51uses in the area.

30:53Staff held a community meeting on June 29th to gather feedback

30:56to understand what ways we could better support some of

31:00the areas that have a significant industrial use of

31:03the property, but also a growing commercial use in the

31:05area as well.

31:06Um. Over the years, industrial and commercial uses have

31:10blended together with the with the dawn of brew pubs and other

31:16types of uses that used to be directly separated into

31:19industrial uses, which has

31:20blurred the line just a little bit.

31:22But we do understand that we do need to maintain the industrial

31:25properties at the same time, while allowing these areas to

31:29grow in as they support the community.

31:33Some of the key themes that came out, at least from the

31:36Chelsea Business Association discussion, was that they like

31:38the current walkability and the mix of uses.

31:41They desire to maintain the existing industrial character,

31:44but want to see additional small scale boutique and retail

31:47sales and services,

31:49and of course, improved parking management and capacity and

31:52parking impacts were also discussed during the meeting.

31:56The proposed zoning text amendment would create a zoning

31:59district that's a floating zoning district.

32:01It would be applied to properties as a as a property

32:03owner requests it through the rezoning process.

32:07These would be permissible where areas where.

32:09In areas where light industrial can coexist with small scale

32:11commercial within the existing building and eligibility

32:14requirements that are in the current text is that the

32:16property must currently be zoned light industrial and also

32:19meets the minimum parking

32:20standard for general industrial uses.

32:23This would allow for us to make sure that we are not impacting

32:25the road network or other uses in the site by adding

32:29additional commercial uses, because they would have some

32:32parking to help alleviate any potential on street impacts to

32:35the adjacent industrial users.

32:37It would limit retail goods and personal services uses by to

32:42being allowed by right up to 2000ft once the zoning is

32:45applied to the property, and the same uses retail goods and

32:48personal services larger than 2000ft could be permitted if

32:52they were.

32:53If they obtained a conditional use permit.

32:58Along with this is a rezoning by 1311 Red Gate Avenue.

33:03This is on the south side of

33:04Red Gate Avenue in the Chelsea area.

33:06It's an existing mixed mix of light industrial, commercial

33:09and office uses in this space of flex industrial space, and

33:13they are requesting to apply

33:14this overlay district to their property.

33:17This is consistent with the general plan with NFPA 2050.

33:21The Comprehensive Plan

33:23and by a vote of 6 to 0, the Planning Commission recommends

33:26the zoning text amendment and the rezoning of 1311 Red Gate

33:29Avenue to apply the Industrial Mixed Use overlay.

33:37The next item is a conditional use permit by Macondo at 2325

33:40East Little Creek Road.

33:41It's on the east side of Little Creek Road, on the south side

33:44of East Little Creek Road near Halperin Drive.

33:46It's currently a vacant restaurant and the request is

33:48to allow for restaurant with extended hours, live

33:51entertainment and the sale of alcohol for on and off premise

33:53consumption off premises contemporaneous with the meal.

33:58Yes.

34:01Mr..

34:02Yes, ma'am.

34:03Thank you for that presentation.

34:07Okay.

34:12I have a few questions.

34:15With the new zonings that we're creating the new ordinances,

34:22the overlay districts, and all of this.

34:25Is this going to be city wide

34:28or just for certain neighborhoods?

34:30So I do have a concern with us changing.

34:34Ordinances, creating new ordinances just to address

34:39certain areas.

34:40And it should be city wide.

34:43The industrial the first.

34:45I'm sorry.

34:45We'll work our way backwards.

34:47The industrial industrial mixed use Overlay district can be

34:49applied to a light industrial property throughout the city.

34:52So that's not limited to just one area.

34:54Um, which we believe could be beneficial to multiple

34:56industrial areas in the city.

34:59The general temporary signage is for the whole city to so

35:03that we can help to clean up the temporary signs.

35:06The transparency requirement is more of a pilot for the

35:09Riverview Business pedestrian commercial overlay.

35:11Um, because the specific pedestrian commercial overlay

35:15zoning districts, which are limited, have transparency

35:19requirements that are different than the rest of the city.

35:21So that one's a that one's a very targeted one.

35:24Just to pilot to see if that works.

35:25And we will work with the other pedestrian commercial overlays

35:28to see if they would like to apply those districts.

35:31And then, uh, yeah, for those,

35:33those are the three general ones.

35:36You give me information.

35:40Yes. And how many overlay districts are in yours?

35:48Yes, ma'am.

35:48We can do that.

35:58And the zoning window covering that would be for the entire

36:01city as well.

36:02Yes, ma'am.

36:03The the temporary assignments for the entire city.

36:06So the transparency requirement, we believe there

36:09should be a parent one with

36:10that that should go in the city code.

36:13We do need to work with the city Attorney's office to bring

36:16that forward.

36:17And all of what is occurring.

36:20How will it be enforced?

36:23The as far as the changes in temporary window signage will.

36:27The zoning inspectors will go to the businesses.

36:29We're creating a flier.

36:31We're going to go out and essentially go to the ones that

36:34we know are some of the frequent fliers that are the

36:36most egregious in signage and begin to notify them of their

36:39compliance requirements.

36:41And that would be for the entire city.

36:43Yes, ma'am.

36:44Even the ones who were grandfathered in.

36:47Because they're temporary signs, they're not considered

36:49vested because they will, they will.

36:51They're required to be replaced every three months.

36:54Thank you.

36:55Thank you. Mr..

36:56Mr..

36:57Mr..

36:59Mr.. Tahan, how long do you think the pilot program and the

37:02commercial overlay and Riverview before considering

37:05broader rollout?

37:06Um.

37:08I haven't actually thought that past the point that we're at.

37:11Unfortunately, this has taken a lot longer than we had

37:12anticipated to try to get these through the process.

37:15Um,

37:17we, once we get the enforcement, I think, uh,

37:19because this is paired with the enforcement for the temporary

37:22signs, I'd probably say 6 to 9 months.

37:24And then for us to then reach out to the other pedestrian

37:27commercial overlays that are impacted.

37:29You know, roughly how many there are across the city.

37:32I do not.

37:34Think.

37:36The pedestrian, the pedestrian

37:37commercial overlays that are impacted.

37:39Um.

37:42There's Riverview, 21st Street, College Avenue, 35th Street.

37:46Those are the key ones.

37:47I don't think there's any more.

37:48Paula, correct me if I'm missing one.

37:50Those are the ones also with transparency requirements is

37:53the downtown zoning districts as well.

37:54And so those are those are the ones that have different

37:56transparency and requirements, um, because of their

38:00walkability and design.

38:04Yes.

38:05Thank you.

38:06Mr. Johnson, please continue.

38:08All right.

38:10This is the location for my condo, which is again

38:13requesting live entertainment

38:14and a restaurant with extended hours.

38:17The food truck will no longer be located at the site.

38:19I believe they've already removed it.

38:20They are switching to a brick

38:21and mortar from their food truck.

38:26This is the layout that was proposed by the applicant.

38:29Doesn't show as well on the screen, but they are proposing

38:32to remove a significant amount of pavement and added

38:34landscaping and sidewalk.

38:36This is what they're proposing that they provided to us that

38:39they want to do to improve the site.

38:43Here's the interior layout of the site.

38:47They do also have an area in the back which has an outdoor

38:50dining area.

38:52All the entertainment that is proposed will only be inside

38:54the building.

38:58The site is operating from 10 a.m.

38:59to 10 p.m.

39:00Sunday through Thursday, and 10 a.m.

39:02to midnight Friday and Saturday.

39:04With the matching hours of sales of alcohol for alcoholic

39:06beverages, their live entertainment will be indoors

39:09only and again matching their hours of operation, limiting

39:12their entertainment to live band, karaoke comedian and

39:15speaker with a total capacity of 217.

39:19Note that the there are 116 seats indoors with 78 seats

39:23outdoors with this new layout.

39:28By six zero vote, the Planning Commission recommends approval.

39:32And because this is a new entertainment establishment,

39:34they are recommending a two year expiration for the.

39:37For the use.

39:42Next is a conditional use permit for a short term rental

39:44vacation rental at 1615 Colonial Avenue.

39:47This is at the corner of

39:48Colonial Avenue and Washington Park.

39:51And again, the applicant is

39:52applying to for a vacation rental.

39:56This is the location of the site.

39:57They have an area in the front which is which can be is

40:00utilized for parking, which also leads to the front door.

40:04They also have a side area that's accessed by a private

40:07drive that's shared between the property owners, which is off

40:10to the side in this location here?

40:16Yes, ma'am.

40:17Do they plan on doing anything with it?

40:19I have additional information for that.

40:21Yes. Nope.

40:22Sorry.

40:27Here's the neighborhood analysis, noting the location.

40:29There aren't.

40:31There are no other vacation rentals within the immediate

40:32vicinity, within a 500 foot

40:34buffer of the existing of this location.

40:38Does the.

40:42City Planning Commission, by a

40:44vote of 5 to 1, recommended approval.

40:46There were two speakers that spoke in opposition stating

40:48that the addition of a vacation rental would impact the

40:51surrounding properties.

40:52These were the neighbors that

40:53also utilized the shared driveway.

40:55Planning Commission at the time recommended a condition that

40:58prohibits using the parking area on the property that can

41:01be accessed via the private drive.

41:03Because the ordinance does require that there be consent

41:07from the other other property owners that utilize the drive.

41:10The applicant has provided a deed that's been reviewed by

41:13the City Attorney's Office that shows that they have access to

41:15that drive, and staff does recommend removing the

41:17condition that they cannot utilize the driveway.

41:20If the if the council decides to move forward with this.

41:25An additional update.

41:26The Planning Commission also recommended to replace or

41:29repair the damaged driveway on their property only, which is

41:32this area approximately.

41:33This area highlighted.

41:35The applicant has requested that this condition be removed.

41:38The applicant also opposes a condition that prohibits

41:41blocking the shared private drive area.

41:43Um, they requested it only say

41:46that they cannot block the sidewalk.

41:49The applicant acknowledged the proposed conditions.

41:51They did not accept them.

41:52They acknowledged them.

41:53We provided to them prior to the Planning Commission public

41:54hearing, but no objection was raised during the public

41:57hearing, um, over these conditions.

42:01Uh, staff did receive correspondence from the Ghent

42:03Neighborhood League stating that although they did not take

42:05a position, they did allow their membership to vote, and a

42:09majority of those that were present voted that they do not

42:11support short term rentals in their area.

42:17Can you say whether we have heard from the other neighbor

42:20that shares the driveway?

42:22We have.

42:22They came and spoke in

42:23opposition during the public hearing.

42:29Next, I have the update on the

42:31short term rental zoning text amendment.

42:33It's the short term Rental Limitation Overlay District.

42:35And to apply this, this district to the Willoughby area

42:38of the city.

42:40This was initiated by the City Planning Commission in response

42:43to concerns of impacts of short term rentals,

42:47a short term rental operations within the Willoughby area.

42:50Then this was requested by the Willoughby Civic League to

42:52limit additional vacation rentals in that area.

42:55Based on the analysis, the Planning Commission and staff

42:58have noted that Willoughby has a unique concentration of

42:59vacation rentals, short term rentals across the entire

43:02neighborhood that are higher

43:03than other neighborhoods in the city.

43:05Some locations in the city at a micro level have have also a

43:08similar impact.

43:10But across the entire area of a neighborhood.

43:12Willoughby does show to have a larger percentage of operations

43:15of short term rentals.

43:16Vacation rentals.

43:19On May 4th, staff held a public meeting to obtain comment from

43:22those that were for and against or had any questions about this

43:25short term rental limitation overlay district.

43:27Um, those that were in favor of the text amendment noted that

43:30there is a higher percentage of vacation rentals in Willoughby

43:32based on the number of parcels

43:34and dwelling units that are there.

43:36Too many vacation rentals can make it difficult to create a

43:38community, and that a lot of the burden, burden of reporting

43:43violations falls on the citizens, and that there should

43:45be a density limit similar to Hampton or other localities

43:48have provided.

43:50To note, the Hampton provisions provide for a 300 foot buffer

43:54between short term rentals, and have a cap on the total number

43:57of density that they can have at 1%.

44:00Willoughby. Based on the number of parcels um floats somewhere

44:04between 7 and 8% of short term rentals based on the parcels,

44:09with between 3 to 4% of huge count dwelling units being

44:13within the area.

44:16Those that commented against the text amendment, they noted

44:19that there should be more focus on enforcement, which staff

44:21does agree on.

44:22Short term rentals represent a small portion of the housing

44:25stock, and that motels in the area are sources of more crime

44:28than the short term rentals.

44:31They have concerns about the existing approval process, as

44:34well as noting that there are contributions that are made by

44:36the short term rentals, whether it be the local businesses and

44:39taxes also as revitalization

44:41and redevelopment of existing properties.

44:44Um, there was a note that there will be designated as a tourism

44:48zone that's mostly used for tourism gap financing, not

44:52necessarily noting that it is

44:53for, um, for short term rentals.

44:56Uh, but they also noted those that were in opposition that

44:59the Hampton model is one that should be reviewed.

45:01Minus the density cap

45:02requirement, which which was at 1%.

45:08As staff did analysis for the Planning Commission and

45:10provided it to the Planning Commission for their review.

45:12It's clear that Willoughby is a case study for the city, as it

45:16shows as it relates relates to impacts of short term rentals.

45:20There are perceived impacts by the community and their

45:22perceived perceived

45:23overregulation by the operators.

45:25The attempted balance by the current city regulations

45:28between citizens and operators has been difficult at best.

45:32I will note that best

45:33practices, as we scoured our reviews.

45:36Note that most short term rentals should only be allowed

45:38as homestays in most communities.

45:39That is what the.

45:42A study done in the Cornell Journal of Law and Public

45:44Policy noted as they talked about enforcement and other

45:48types of practices that came with short term rentals.

45:51But switching them to homestays, where the where the

45:53vacation rental or the short term rental is the owner's

45:56primary residence.

45:59Data does show that short term rentals are not the large

46:01generator of violations.

46:03But it also shows that there is a concentration of short term

46:05rentals in that in the Willoughby area.

46:10So for the regulations, the Planning Commission recommends

46:13a set of regulations and to apply them to limit short term

46:17rentals in this area and apply it to the Willoughby area of

46:20the city only.

46:21So all existing vacation rentals as of August 27th, 2026

46:25are proposed to continue to operate and all be shifted to

46:28the administrative approval process, so no more conditional

46:30use permit.

46:32A 300 foot buffer area would be created based on the parcels of

46:36the currently approved vacation rentals.

46:37As of that date,

46:39any one single family or two family property located outside

46:43of the 300 foot buffer would be eligible to obtain approval for

46:47vacation rental by an administrative zoning permit,

46:49so no more conditional use permit.

46:51Once one gets added, it would be added to the buffer and no

46:55more could be added within 300ft of that one as well.

46:59Additional enforcement language has also been added.

47:01If there are four found violations attributed to the

47:03property, it would disqualify the property from being used as

47:06a vacation rental for two years.

47:07There is current standing regulation in the zoning

47:11ordinance regarding performance standards for short term

47:14rentals, but the way it's currently worded, a new

47:16operator could come in and reset the clock.

47:18We believe that short term rentals,

47:21the violations should be attributed to the property

47:24rather than to an operator to reset the clock.

47:29This is the 300 foot buffer.

47:31As you take a look at the short term rentals located within the

47:34Willoughby area.

47:36This is a combined map that shows areas that we've had

47:39closed violations and open violations.

47:41But you can see that there's a there is some gap and it does

47:45allow outside of the buffer to allow.

47:48Currently, right now, not without adding any additional

47:50homes, 41 single family homes and three duplexes eligible to

47:54be added up at this point in time as vacation as vacation

47:58rentals in this area.

48:02We received comments from the Willoughby Civic League

48:03regarding this proposal.

48:05They prefer the administrative only outside of the buffer.

48:09Previous approvals.

48:10The CIP and administrative to go through the administrative

48:13renewal process.

48:14No new multifamily properties

48:16to operate as a vacation rental.

48:19It's to note that the.

48:20The requirement to add sprinkler systems for existing

48:22multifamily properties has made it difficult for new, um, new

48:26operators to come in.

48:27We have not seen a large scale multifamily building change

48:30over to a vacation rental in a while at this time.

48:33The 300 foot buffer, they, they have accepted and they've

48:36changed that from our previous

48:37stance, which was initially 500ft.

48:39And they do not want any in any conditional use permits.

48:44Um, we spoke with also the short term rental operators

48:47representative, which is with strive.

48:49Um they prefer a hybrid approach which allows for an

48:51administrative approval if you're outside of the buffer.

48:54But if you're inside the buffer to allow them to ask to be

48:57allowed by a conditional use permit

49:00there. They do agree that the previous approval should go

49:02through an administrative renewal process.

49:04They believe 100 foot buffer for administrative would be

49:08appropriate, and anything inside 100ft should be by

49:11conditional use permit.

49:12So.

49:16By 5 to 1 vote, the Planning Commission recommends approval.

49:20Yes.

49:21Um, before you get to this part.

49:24Um we had a whole committee that came together, um and made

49:29recommendations for STRs.

49:32Have we gone back to look and see the recommendations from

49:35that committee.

49:36And your staff was actively involved in that.

49:39Um, have we implemented 100%

49:42of what that committee recommended?

49:44Before we do anything like this.

49:48I can say we have not implemented 100% of that.

49:51I know we haven't.

49:52I was not a trick question.

49:53Well, maybe it was.

49:55So my concern is we did all that work.

49:58There was an agreement from the city and from the civic leagues

50:03to do that committee, to handle the short term rental issues

50:08that were coming up.

50:10Um, we did not implement any of the recommendations or very few

50:14of the recommendations from that.

50:16Um, we have a civic league, um, who was, had representatives on

50:21that committee that didn't get 100% of what they wanted, but

50:25there was a general agreement from all the ocean view, um,

50:28um, representatives that were there, the short term rental

50:31people that this is how we move forward.

50:33And now we are going to this, um, I'm completely bothered by

50:40this because I think this is going to open up Pandora's box.

50:44I also believe that this is going to be used as an example,

50:49along with Hampton, what they did with the General Assembly.

50:52And I believe that there's going to it's going to go back

50:55to General Assembly member sponsoring, sponsoring

50:59legislation that's going to take away any authority that we

51:03have now with short term rentals, because this is

51:06exactly what the General

51:09Assembly was against localities doing.

51:13So the real estate group is a heavy lobby.

51:16Um, they are all about property rights and people being able to

51:21manage the properties they want to.

51:23And I have a feeling that this is going to, we're going to be

51:25a case study or an example with legislation if this passes and

51:30moves forward.

51:31So already hearing some rumblings about the Hampton

51:33model and what they're doing.

51:34Um, and I also believe that there might be some legal

51:38actions that are going to be taken, um, against the city.

51:41So I, I don't know why we wouldn't just go look back at

51:46what we recommended from the committee to make sure that we

51:49are implementing everything that was recommended there,

51:52including enforcement of illegal Legal operators before

51:55we even are moving towards this.

51:58Mr. chairman.

52:01Planning Commission

52:03recommends. This is not before us tonight.

52:06No, sir.

52:07Correct.

52:09And I know, Mr. Molina, you attended a lot of those

52:11meetings with us.

52:13Tommy and I.

52:14And I think

52:15we did.

52:16We did a lot of meetings.

52:17Yeah. So we can we can take a

52:18look at that before it comes back.

52:21Okay. All right.

52:23Mr. Johnson.

52:23Thank you.

52:25Um, since this is a case study, um.

52:31How long will this be in place?

52:34You say it's a case study.

52:36I believe the set of facts is a case study for us to review.

52:39Not necessarily that this is, um, a temporary.

52:43Going back to

52:46why the number for for violations versus three.

52:52The key word there was that we wanted to make sure that

52:55we were clearly documenting each and every violation and

52:59allowing them at the third violation, letting them, giving

53:02them proper notice so that they can if they had to appeal, they

53:04could appeal it.

53:05Um, what was happening?

53:07What happens is what unfortunately, what has

53:09happened is that we've had in some of the areas where things

53:12like trash cans and other things are grouped together,

53:14you can't tell who's violation is who's.

53:16And so it gets tagged to a property.

53:18And we have a, we have a operator that's concerned that

53:21that's tagged to them at this point in time.

53:22So we wanted to allow an additional buffer in there to

53:25ensure that we're getting those things squared away.

53:27So.

53:29Okay.

53:30But when they go through the process,

53:33they have to come to to plan.

53:36Yes, ma'am.

53:37You're the guidance governing department to help them through

53:41the entire process.

53:43Um, you teach them what they can and cannot do.

53:47You provide examples.

53:49They are allowed to ask any questions.

53:53We always encourage them when they come to City council to

53:57ask questions.

53:59So again, why four instead of three?

54:03Because three strikes you're out.

54:07I mean, if

54:10I'll go back and study a little bit more,

54:14but

54:16three is a good number for me.

54:21And when we

54:24do the text amendment or the zoning ordinance, will this

54:29become at some point for the entire city or just will it be?

54:35This request is only to apply to the Willoughby area.

54:39It could potentially, as Councilman Spiegel noted, could

54:42be requested to be applied elsewhere.

54:45Okay. But if it's applying to the Willoughby community, we're

54:49starting off with them.

54:51right? How long will it be before it moves to

54:56Ocean View?

54:57I know that's your.

54:59Well, what's going to happen is when this is implemented, it's

55:00going to force more short term rentals.

55:03Now on the other parts, because they're going to be limited

55:05over in this section.

55:07So now you're going to see a dramatic increase of that on

55:11the rest of ocean view.

55:13So there's going to be an impact.

55:15And watch the numbers are going to change because there's no

55:17opportunity down there for people to be entrepreneurs.

55:20And so it's going to move to the other parts.

55:23So that's

55:25that's my question.

55:26If we're implementing it to the Willoughby area.

55:30Right. And we know that there is going to be a push towards

55:35ocean view.

55:37Then how long will it take for us to put something to address

55:42Ocean View?

55:44Because they're both communities near the water,

55:48near the beach and things like that.

55:51So if we're doing it for Willoughby,

55:54what about Ocean View?

55:56The community of Ocean View as well.

55:59We have to protect both communities because they are on

56:04the water near the beach.

56:06So I'm saying, how long will it take for us to make the shift

56:11to protect both communities?

56:14I'm unsure that

56:17the differing communities have the same goal.

56:19I will say that.

56:20So right now we know that this that Willoughby, the community

56:23has stated that they have that they have come forward formally

56:26and requested this for their area only.

56:29Okay.

56:30So Ocean View would then have to go through an entire process

56:34as Willoughby has done.

56:37Ocean view would need to make

56:38this their needs request for consideration.

56:43Yes.

56:44Okay I understand, thank you.

56:47We have a lot of questions.

56:49This has generated a lot of questions, but to this point, I

56:53would hope that an impact analysis was done to predict

56:56and evaluate a change in Willoughby,

57:01what it would have on other parts of the community,

57:04especially in Ocean View.

57:06So I don't know if you did an impact analysis, but when

57:09something as.

57:14Impactful as what you're

57:16proposing, what's being proposed,

57:19there is an impact.

57:20And that impact, as Mr. Spiegel has predicted, is probably

57:25likely to immediately be in Ocean View.

57:29No, you can't answer that right now, but that's something that

57:31we should consider.

57:32So we got 3 or 4 questions.

57:34So I'm going to start over here and get back to you.

57:36So Mr. McGee, Mr. Page and Mr. Clinton.

57:40Yeah. Just a couple comments in reference to Councilman

57:43Smigel's comments.

57:44So when I first joined council, I was eager to pick up the

57:47recommendations from that.

57:49The group that you and councilman or Councilwoman

57:52McClellan co-chaired.

57:54And I think what I've since learned is most many of those

57:58recommendations were in the spirit of deregulation, making

58:02it easier for short term rental operators to open up.

58:06And I think we find ourselves in a different situation today

58:10for Willoughby.

58:11Willoughby is a small area of land with a high concentration,

58:14as you heard three four times what Hampton sees.

58:17Hampton caps it at 1%, Willoughby at seven 8%.

58:21Um, that is a different set of facts that I think is just

58:24compounded over time, with more and more short term rentals

58:27being approved.

58:29And the residents there and Willoughby are, um, contacting

58:33Martin and I expressing concern.

58:34So I think it's a little bit of a different situation.

58:37You know, that same distance, same width from first Bay down

58:41to East Beach of Willoughby.

58:44So when you look at density, it's the same thing in East

58:46ocean view, um, with very

58:49limited two blocks, 2 to 3 blocks.

58:51Well, I think honestly, we're going to have to look at this

58:54beyond Willoughby.

58:55At some point when I go to the East Ocean View Civic League, I

58:58hear from them.

58:59In fact, the last time I went there, they said to me, why are

59:01we starting in Willoughby?

59:02Why aren't we starting in East Ocean View?

59:05So I think this is a good situation to pilot this,

59:07because we've got the Willoughby Civic League that

59:09says we want this.

59:11I think we see what happens, the good and the bad, and then

59:14we have an opportunity to adjust before we roll it out

59:17more broadly.

59:18But I think we're going to have to address density for for all

59:21of ocean view at some point.

59:23And is this the perfect way to do it?

59:24I don't know.

59:25I can tell you this is different than what the

59:28Willoughby residents wanted and different than what the short

59:30term rental residents wanted.

59:32Sort of a compromise, which seems to me to be a good place

59:35to start.

59:36Mr. page, Mr. Clinton, are you finished?

59:39Just the last.

59:40Yes, sir.

59:41Okay. Mine goes in a different direction.

59:44The place.

59:45Macanudo. I know that there's some apartments, uh, next to it

59:50on Little Creek Road.

59:51You know how many, uh, kids, children live there?

59:55I got the same text message.

59:57Yeah, it's mostly older people

59:58that live in that apartment building.

60:00Not a whole lot of kids.

60:02Okay. All right.

60:03And next comes back to Ward four.

60:05And the issues that we're having with SDR.

60:08I know I've given you an address, but we have, uh, a

60:11purchaser from out of town that came in, uh, bought a house in

60:14Campostella Heights, uh, that

60:16is illegally operate in the str.

60:19Uh, do we have any update on that as to what's happened?

60:21Because my concern is people from outside of historically

60:23black neighborhood, uh, coming up and buying up properties and

60:27then allowing for these stars to exist.

60:29And we already see a population of folks that are not from the

60:32community that are out there, that are on other people's

60:35property, that are close to the water, unregulated.

60:38And, uh, I prevented one incident from taking place with

60:41the property owner and, some of

60:44these folk that were from wherever.

60:47I do not have it.

60:48I know I sent the the zoning

60:50inspector to the site to check it.

60:52There were also there was also another site in that near

60:55location that was doing work without permits that we also

60:57checked on.

60:57So we.

60:58I will follow up with the team and I'll provide your report.

61:01Thank you sir.

61:02Thank you, Miss Johnson.

61:05Mister mayor.

61:06The short term rental.

61:07Committee.

61:07That council.

61:08Was speaking on.

61:09Was this.

61:10Supposed.

61:11To be.

61:11Looking at.

61:12I guess, action for the entire city?

61:14It was looking at Oceanview because that's where the high

61:17concentration was.

61:18But the actual Jeremy mentioned

61:21it was to make it easier for folks.

61:24Um, so they wouldn't operate illegally.

61:27That was our problem is that if you kind of made it a little

61:31bit easier to go through a process, the administrative

61:33process as opposed to the C, E, P, then we wouldn't have to

61:36worry about the illegal operators because in all cases

61:39that we looked at all the complaints that were coming in

61:43about short term rentals were illegal operators.

61:45They weren't people that were complying with the city's rules

61:48because we have pretty tight standards and requirements.

61:51Sound decibel reader.

61:53I mean, there's, you know, a lot with that that other cities

61:55don't require.

61:56It was all the illegal operators.

61:58And there's this idea too, that we, we found when we were

62:02looking at that, that just because something's an

62:04apartment building doesn't mean that it's a short term rental.

62:08And so complaints were coming in from neighbors saying, this

62:12is a short term rental.

62:12There's a party.

62:14But these were long term

62:15rentals that this was happening in.

62:16And there was an increase for a while of long term rentals

62:20converting into short term rentals.

62:22But that because of the sprinkler, the suppression

62:26system requirements.

62:28Now most of those have

62:28converted back to long term rentals.

62:30You have very few that are

62:32operating in short term rentals.

62:33Now that was the big issue.

62:36But a lot of those also were apartment buildings that were

62:38giving neighborhoods hell Um, at high crime.

62:42And so when this happened, crime went down.

62:44There was some gentrification that happened with it,

62:47unfortunately, but there was also a major reduction in

62:50crime, which is why East Ocean View was kind of on the fence

62:53with this, because they saw crime reduce in East ocean view

62:58dramatically by 50% in some cases.

63:01Uh, previous police chief tried to take credit for it, but it

63:04was because of the increase in short term rentals.

63:07You know.

63:08My piece that I want to get to, I mean, I appreciate that that

63:10context, Councilman, is that we really just need to figure out

63:13some type of way of addressing this because I just coming on

63:17this council and when we get the short term rentals,

63:20everybody has a different perspective, um, on how we

63:23address them.

63:24And I think that at some point we just need to get to some

63:26type of unified way of addressing it.

63:29Maybe there's high density and those, and there's low density

63:33and then some of our marginalized communities.

63:35But I think that this needs to be something that needs to get

63:38on the radar.

63:39Um, working with zoning and whatever else to figure out

63:42what we can get all in agreement on.

63:44So I think this is before.

63:47Maybe.

63:47You're going. To.

63:49Take into consideration.

63:50Everything. Um, as far as us starting with, with Willoughby

63:56and they've clearly outlined, um, what their vision and what

64:01is needed for their community,

64:04um somehow moving towards ocean view.

64:07But Councilman Clanton, you also have summed up my view as

64:12far as, um, us addressing it city wide.

64:17Um, mister manager thank you and team Nora for providing us

64:22this opportunity tonight to discuss

64:25this very important priority for us as a council.

64:30So thank you.

64:31Thank you, Mister Mayor.

64:33Mister manager.

64:34Anything else?

64:35Not for the presentation.

64:37We do have a motion for closed session.

64:39I move that members of Council is similar in form and closed

64:42meeting on September 19th, 2026 at 508.

64:49For the purposes which are set out in clause of subsection A

64:54of section 2.23711.

64:59Clause eight consultation with legal counsel related to

65:02litigation and legal advice for one regarding the

65:07test for two for certain personal injury claim resulting

65:12from an allegedly unsafe road condition.

65:17Or legal issue related to encroachment into the right of

65:21way of this portion of South Main Street.

65:25Mr.. Clinton, Mrs..

65:26Doyle,

65:28Mrs..

65:29Johnson I.

65:30Mr.. McGee.

65:31Mr.. Mr..

65:33Mr.. Thomas.

65:34Doctor. Alexander.

65:36We're in close.