2026-10-08 - Planning & Zoning
Summary
Based on auto-generated captions; names and details may be misheard. This is an earlier upload of the same session as the recording on 2026-10-08 - Planning & Zoning (2); the summary below is kept consistent with that page, and its Issue pages carry the discussion log. Timestamps here run about 8 minutes later than on that recording because this one has about 8 minutes of uncaptioned lead-in, and a few seconds of speech near 1:51:45 are missing from these captions.
Time on topic (from transcript timestamps; approximate, includes side talk):
- Thursday, October 8, 2026.
- Special-called Planning & Zoning Committee discussion of the pending data center legislation, the first of five scheduled hearings.
- Spinosa chaired and noted that Tuesday's full council session was still in recess; the council was due to come out of recess at 4:00 p.m. The first captioned speech is at 8:15 (the preceding minutes have no captioned speech and are not counted) and the session adjourns at about 2:13:00; there is no closed session.
- Staff at the table were Ragsdale (Planning and Development) and council attorney Alan Wade.
- By the chair's roll call at about 51:00 every member was present except Green. No votes were taken.
- Members leaned toward a limited pause tied to the zoning ordinance rather than a long moratorium; the chair said his own indefinite moratorium would be set to expire December 31, 2026.
Data center moratorium ordinance
40:32-43:13, 51:43-52:52, 54:29-55:09, 57:42-1:01:24, 1:04:09-1:06:43, 1:11:15-1:15:20, 1:16:27-1:19:55, 1:29:34-1:30:36, 1:32:22-1:34:05, 1:36:34-2:00:18
- The chair summarized the pending proposals: Smiley's 18 month moratorium (Ordinance 5982), his own with an indefinite moratorium, Warren's with none, and Logan's with a 45 day analysis and 90 day code-text period that does not use the word moratorium. Members counted three of the five as including a pause.
- Spinosa announced on the record that his ordinance would expire December 31, 2026. Wade said a moratorium is safest legally when it protects a legislative process under way, must be reasonable in time and cannot be a de facto prohibition, which state law bars; an exit clause helps but a judge decides reasonableness.
- Wade said a limited pause until the zoning ordinance takes effect could be added by amending Ordinance 5987 or by a resolution. White said the moratorium likely would have failed on Tuesday for lack of this kind of work. She asked whether pending expansions could be paused; Ragsdale and Wade said no, regulations apply to new facilities only.
- Smiley proposed amending Ordinance 5982 to strip the provisions Wade considered legally risky and keep a pause that lasts until Ordinance 5987 passes, and asked whether a pause could also slow new, non-vested data centers while experts are brought in. He cited Loudoun County, Virginia, and said McMinnville and Nashville have passed moratoria; Wade and Smiley disagreed on whether a recent state law changes that and agreed to take it offline. Wade said his draft builds the studies into the permit review instead.
- Warren said regulations could be in place in about four weeks (three readings) without a moratorium, argued a moratorium would not stop xAI's Colossus 2 work, and said it sends a signal that the city does not want the industry. Walker pushed back on claims that firms will "go elsewhere", saying any site still needs a power and permitting process. Warren and Smiley had a brief tense exchange about whether the community wants a ban, which Wade said the city has no authority to impose.
- Asked by the chair, Wade said that if Ordinance 5987 moves with a moratorium until adoption, a project like the first one could not start next to a neighborhood without review.
Data center zoning amendments (Ordinances 5987 and 5988)
14:43-18:40, 18:55-19:10, 20:50-35:10, 1:01:40-1:04:09, 1:08:02-1:11:15, 1:15:20-1:16:27, 1:25:32-1:26:48, 1:27:09-1:29:34, 1:34:05-1:36:34, 2:06:55-2:10:47
- Wade said the council's real reach is land use: siting away from homes, schools, churches and protected areas, plus right-of-way, stormwater and sewer costs that state law lets the city recover (not as a tax). Air is TDEC, EPA and the health department; well permits are county; electricity and gas are TVA and MLGW.
- Logan argued zoning is the council's lane and could be changed quickly, recalling a 245 day gas station moratorium and downgrading of zoning during her first term. Any pause should end in rules rather than be open ended.
- Carlisle said a special use permit route is the fastest way to bring data centers to public hearing and conditions, and questioned why the committee keeps explaining rather than moving to a vote. Wade said criteria must be objective and checkable (feasibility, sound and buffer studies, no outside power sources without approval) or the city invites lawsuits.
- Ordinance numbers: 5987 is the combined zoning ordinance Wade drafted (it takes effect on adoption and is later codified in the UDC); Logan's became 5988, both headed for first reading on the consent agenda that afternoon. Counting the resolution, the committee had five ordinances and one resolution.
- Ragsdale and Wade said the ordinance would require applicants to disclose who they are, where and their megawatt needs, but cannot require notice before they go to MLGW. A member asked Wade to confirm this at the next hearing.
- Cooper-Sutton asked how fast data centers can be moved out of heavily industrial neighborhoods near schools; Wade said existing facilities cannot be removed short of condemnation, and the rules are prospective. Logan asked how industrial zoning would treat small sites; Wade described light and heavy industrial categories, with hyperscale sites directed to 12 to 15 large heavy industrial areas on Planning's maps. Logan's closing remark stressed protecting the whole city.
- Easter-Thomas asked about timing: ordinances 5985 and 5986 and Logan's create frameworks needing later council action with no deadline. Wade said zoning is the part least likely to be preempted by the state.
Data center vested rights and pending permits
10:08-14:43, 18:40-18:55, 48:46-50:02, 1:06:43-1:07:32, 1:21:17-1:25:32, 1:30:36-1:32:22, 2:00:18-2:03:19
- White asked what is pending. Ragsdale said only two sites are in the pipeline: the original plant on Paul R. Lowry Road (with a roughly 300,000 square foot expansion, already public) and the former Fred's headquarters site on Getwell; no unannounced applications that he knows of. MLGW's president McGowan had told him three or four more may come four to five months out, and MLGW is the first stop because applicants need power.
- Wade: no new law or moratorium would affect projects in progress or already existing; once a firm spends money under a permit with no review process in place its rights vest.
- Wade said time-limited renewals of special use permits, transfers of ownership or restart reviews are not allowed because they affect property rights; instead conditions run with the land, including a cessation or reclamation plan to remove equipment when it is obsolete, which would cover existing sites that go through the process.
- Carlisle asked how vesting works on land already zoned industrial and noted that businesses want certainty; Wade said a firm that buys property after a review process exists must go through it.
Data center legislation hearing series
8:15-10:08, 35:10-40:32, 43:13-43:40, 45:52-48:46, 51:08-51:43, 2:10:47-2:12:55
- Spinosa read the focus: review all the held ordinances and the existing zoning framework, build one consolidated piece of legislation in public, and send an email with later hearing dates.
- Carlisle and Wade debated whether the information hearings are needed; Wade and others said they can run in parallel with legislation because they inform the public. Walker said the process had been rushed and should have started months ago, and that Ragsdale had promised a presentation for mid to late October.
- Schedule given at the close: Monday, October 19, community and environmental protections (noise, water, air quality, neighborhood infrastructure, with MLGW, TVA, the health department, TDEC and experts); Thursday, October 22, community voices; Tuesday, October 27 as captioned, community benefits and economic growth, then outstanding items. Sessions run 1:00 to 3:00 p.m.
- Swearengen-Washington handed out a decorum reminder (one speaker at a time, no personal statements) before members went downstairs.
Data center community benefit agency ordinance
52:52-54:29, 55:09-57:42, 1:19:55-1:20:53, 2:08:51-2:09:29
- Warren asked for enabling legislation, to be taken to Nashville, that would let the city capture money from data centers for a community benefit agency, separate from the regulations. Wade said it would need state approval and mentioned the airport authority model.
- The chair said community benefits is the topic of the fourth hearing; Wade said Logan's draft deliberately leaves community benefits out as beyond the council's purview, and Smiley's moratorium only studies them.
Data center electric service and ratepayer protections
19:10-20:50, 2:03:35-2:06:55
- Members noted electricity, gas and TVA are outside city authority; the chair said McGowan is ready to appear at a later hearing.
- Walker asked about steering projects to renewable energy. Wade said if a firm brings its own power, the council can deny a permit for gas turbines and prefer renewables, though it cannot dictate contract terms.
Data center noise limits
43:40-45:29, 50:02-51:08
- Wade said no other agency controls sound, and the city noise code only covers vehicles and construction hours. Under the new process, applicants would file a sound remediation plan against objective standards to be set at a later hearing; Walker asked whether noise would be handled inside this ordinance.
Sources
Video
Transcript
These are auto-generated captions; names and numbers may be misheard.
Transcript
08:15any discussion over data center
08:17legislation. I'm going to read the focus
08:19item for this meeting, but just to
08:21clarify, the Memphis City Council
08:23session from Tuesday is still in recess
08:26and due some things that we were brought
08:27up regarding the legislation. Here we
08:29are. So the focus item, this is all
08:31available to the public. We can provide
08:32you copies, but the intent of the
08:34meeting today and we're planning to go
08:36until 4:00 I believe, right? 4:00. Um
08:41the focus discuss the proposed data
08:43center legislation listed in our meeting
08:45materials. That's going to be all the
08:47ordinances that were held. Um and review
08:50the existing zoning framework with the
08:52division of planning development. Of
08:53course, attorney Wade is here as well.
08:55We're all looking for clarity. Um, and
08:57that is why we held the items, but that
09:00is why we're here today. So, um, I'm
09:03actually going to ask Councilwoman White
09:05to get us started. I know she had some
09:07questions from the meeting, and I
09:09believe we're going to start off just
09:10kind of looking into Rhonda's, uh,
09:12ordinance, but one more thing, as we
09:15work through this,
09:18please allow us or try to understand and
09:20follow as we go. Okay? I'm going to
09:22refer ask everybody to refer to
09:26JB Councilman Smiley's ordinance. His um
09:29let me give you an example. His has a
09:31full moratorum 18 months, right?
09:34Councilman Warden's ordinance had no
09:36moratorium. Council uh woman Logan's
09:40ordinance had no moratorium and then my
09:42ordinance actually had an indefinite
09:44moratorum. So, as we go through and
09:47start talking about these things, we're
09:49trying to consolidate all of them, find
09:52the good stuff that we all agree on and
09:54legislate and build out a piece of
09:55legislation. So, you're getting ready to
09:57watch us do this in public and that's
10:00the intent and this is the first of five
10:03scheduled hearings and I believe we're
10:06going to send an email shortly that has
10:07future meeting days and times. All
10:09right. Thank you all for allowing me to
10:10say that. Councilwoman White,
10:14>> I just wanted to know um from Director
10:17Dagdale right now um in terms of permits
10:20and those things. Are you able to give
10:22us what's like how many are pending
10:25right now or if there there are some
10:26pending permits or applications things
10:29that are um before you all for review as
10:31it pertains to data centers?
10:33>> Yes, Brett Ragdale with the Division of
10:35Planning Development. So, currently I
10:37think you know we're aware of the ones
10:38that are uh in existence. the original
10:41one that was the electrolux plant on
10:43Paul our Lowry the two-lane road um and
10:47then the one on Gitwell which is the uh
10:50old Fred's headquarters currently those
10:53are the only ones that are in the uh the
10:55pipeline that we have permits for um
10:58there are no others that are that we're
11:01aware of that are pending and I know
11:02that uh President McGawan had mentioned
11:04that you know he had been contacted you
11:06know MLG&W has a supply of power so I
11:09think that they um had like a a
11:12six-month time frame that he didn't see
11:14anything in anticipation. So, that's
11:16where we are with the current building
11:18permits um and the current data centers
11:21that are in operation.
11:23>> To clarify for the two facilities that
11:25are already in operation, when you say
11:28building permits, are these permits
11:30regarding ex the any like expansions,
11:33changes to the building, what kind of
11:35permits are they?
11:36>> Uh yes. So, the original buildings um
11:39have some alteration permits, and there
11:42is an expansion that I think is already
11:45um you know, public that was an
11:47expansion of the two-lane road. It's a
11:49300,000 foot uh building. So, that's the
11:53only ones that are currently in the
11:55pipeline or have been applied for.
11:58So then qu
12:00>> okay just to clarify um you got two two
12:04lane one uh Fred's
12:08>> and what was the other one?
12:09>> Uh the Paul Hour
12:11>> Paul that was the the first one.
12:12>> Yes.
12:13>> And a couple of them have completed
12:16facilities.
12:18Uh I think the Freds is probably the one
12:20that's most in progress. Um so these are
12:23the ones that he has received. Now you
12:27don't have MLG&W at the table.
12:30Basically, they have essentially because
12:33electricity is the main driver of these
12:35things. They have to be assured that
12:38they going to get that. So they go to
12:40them first. So you need to be asking him
12:42what is on the horizon for you. He may
12:45not be able to tell you. He may be able
12:47to tell you, but he told me there were
12:49maybe four, three or four others that
12:53may be coming along, but they will be
12:55about
12:57four to five months out before they get
13:00to him.
13:01>> Okay. And for you, for the ones that
13:03you're talking about now, are these
13:04pending ones or are you saying what we
13:06have had in the past?
13:08>> These are pending.
13:09>> There are some that are in review, but
13:11they're already public. So, they're
13:12they're ones we are aware of. Yes.
13:14>> Okay. But there are no new ones that
13:16that we've been contacted about that
13:18haven't been submitted or that are not
13:20public.
13:21>> So those are under review though.
13:22>> Yes.
13:22>> And so that goes my question was going
13:24to be for attorney way. you you kind of
13:26touched on it and I know that President
13:28McGawan said that there would be about 6
13:30months before anything went online with
13:34them with the and the reason I'm asking
13:37this is to kind of level set for what it
13:40is that we're getting ready to do here
13:42in terms of what we're trying to
13:44regulate even if it's an a pause not a
13:48moratorum whatever it is what if do you
13:51what if any impact would it have to the
13:55applications that are or permits that
13:57are currently in review.
14:00>> Um,
14:02you know, I think you have to look
14:04carefully at the the vested rights
14:07statute, but typically this even under
14:10the wording of the smiling moratorum, it
14:14wouldn't affect any projects that are in
14:17progress or already in existence.
14:21And I hadn't looked specifically at his
14:23language, but I think that was my
14:25understanding. So essentially what it
14:27does
14:29to be
14:31brutally honest about it, what it does
14:33is pretty much give
14:36XAI
14:39a monopoly for a while.
14:41>> Yeah. Well, let me
14:42>> Nobody else can get into
14:44>> Let me interject. Let me interject on
14:45that. This is why I'm so glad we're all
14:47here. So, we were about to vote on
14:48something yesterday and we're sitting
14:50here having this discussion, right? We
14:53needed to be understanding these things
14:54before we pass legislation about
14:56something that's so important for all of
14:59us, not including or including foremost
15:02the people that live right next door to
15:05the one that's already here before we
15:07examined or had an opportunity to
15:09examine anything. So, I'm so happy we're
15:10having this discussion and Attorney
15:13Wade, I'm going to offer this. So from
15:14what I can see, I want to explain
15:17the differences from what I read in each
15:20ordinance. So JB's is a moratorum up to
15:2318 months.
15:25In the source notice, exact reporting
15:27and exit language require confirmation.
15:31Rhonda's is a 45day analysis and 90-day
15:34udc text, but there's no mortorium
15:36there, but there's that 45 and 90day um
15:40you know text in there for the analysis.
15:42Councilman Warren has no moratorum. Uh,
15:46Spinosas has a permanent moratorum
15:49but allows companies to come and apply
15:52and go through the whole process
15:55until we do we lift the moratorum when
15:58we all agree on what the final approval
16:00looks like all these little details that
16:03we're talking about. So those are the
16:05the things that we currently those are
16:08the differences between the the four
16:10from what I can see and I just think
16:11>> you have to say something.
16:12>> That's what I can see but I could be
16:14wrong.
16:14>> High level high level
16:15>> we're getting into a granular level
16:17there.
16:18>> Yeah.
16:18>> I mean I think the nonmoratorum ones
16:23fairly they have a lot of overlap. They
16:26try to accomplish the same thing. Mhm.
16:29>> When you got down to the last one from
16:31Logan, hers was mostly targeting
16:37authority that we have and trying to
16:40develop some things around that.
16:43>> Yeah. Yeah.
16:44>> So, that's kind of where where those
16:46are. Some of the other ones, the two
16:48from you and Warren, they do the same
16:52thing.
16:55one. Yours is a whole lot more
17:01specific and intensive and whatever in
17:04terms of land use. And it also says at
17:07the top subject to legal review to be
17:09consistent with what our
17:12code,
17:13>> right?
17:13>> And so that's kind of where that one
17:15was. Jeff was in the same same mode
17:20except both of them go into a whole lot
17:23of insight about what data centers are,
17:26how much utilities they use, how much
17:29water they use, what kind of facilities
17:31they use, and a lot of that sometimes
17:34is, as Brett will tell you, is sometimes
17:37outside the scope of what we do from
17:39standpoint.
17:40>> Yeah. Yeah.
17:40>> So, you have to separate those things
17:42and that's kind of what I saw on the
17:46universe and that's why I came forward
17:48what I thought was a start at doing
17:53something that would have an intensive
17:56review process before they could go
17:58forward.
17:59>> And I thought that's what everybody had
18:02>> a universal agreement about, you know.
18:05So, I mean, we can we can disagree about
18:08the details of how that happens, but it
18:11seems to me that's what you want. And I
18:14think you want you want that process to
18:16be in place because you don't want
18:17another XAI to just pop up overnight and
18:21you didn't know nothing about it and
18:22next thing you know, they're rolling and
18:24got turbines and got everything going,
18:26you know, and then you got to file
18:28lawsuits to stop them. And,
18:31>> you know, they move fast, dude. I'm
18:33telling you.
18:33>> Yeah. They move very fast.
18:36>> And that's kind of what the what the lay
18:38of the land is. So,
18:40>> yeah.
18:40>> Well, I just wanted to just get one
18:41thing straight for the record because
18:43this has been something that's been
18:44confusing and this is not for my sake. I
18:46know the answer to it, but for the
18:47general public
18:50in terms of anything that we pass, for
18:53instance, the moratorum that's being
18:55proposed, that will not stop existing
18:57operations. Is that correct?
18:59>> That's correct.
19:00>> Okay.
19:02And can I just say one other thing
19:04please? I think if we uh
19:08>> you know you're you are a legislative
19:09body that primarily does
19:13land use
19:16>> do a lot of budgetary decisions too. Uh
19:19there are a lot of things that go on
19:20with these specialized things as we
19:23learned from doing
19:24>> move up a little with the mic
19:25>> as from what we learned doing the oil
19:28pipeline. U so you know you you look at
19:31it from a standpoint
19:33there's land
19:35there's air there's water
19:39okay um what am I missing
19:44>> electricity
19:45>> electricity
19:47>> it could be gas
19:49uh natural gas so those things if you if
19:53you look at them natural gas electricity
19:58We don't have any authority to dictate
20:01that and the state has has has
20:04>> MLG&W and and TVA. Right.
20:06>> That's correct.
20:07>> Hey, and for the And for the record on
20:09the agenda at the next hearing,
20:13uh, President McGawan uh, is ready to
20:16come down here whenever to answer any
20:17and all questions that come out of this
20:19because I know we've already referenced
20:20MLGW, so we're doing it again. And I
20:22would tell you that that he did give a
20:25pretty good synopsis of what their
20:28authority was when he came before, but
20:30at that time I don't think everybody's
20:32attention was hyperfocused on what he
20:34was saying because he answered a whole
20:36lot of questions about it.
20:38>> So then you get to
20:40um
20:42you know the air
20:44you know we don't really have a lot of
20:47authority over that. That's down
20:49>> t
20:50>> t deck and and EPA
20:52>> health department.
20:53>> And then you got water, which we've
20:55already uh adopted a well protection
20:59plan where you can't you can't drill
21:01wells around our existing MLG&W wells to
21:06protect the aquifer. Now, we don't
21:08control the issuance of well permits.
21:12That's done by the county. Um then then
21:17the last one is um so water, air,
21:23utilities.
21:24So what it boils down to the the thing
21:27that's the most within your jurisdiction
21:30is the land aspect. And so the various
21:34aspects that you have with that um that
21:37you want to make sure that these things
21:39are not cited near residential areas,
21:44schools, churches, environmentally
21:47protected areas, historic areas. And so
21:50that's kind of a sighting thing that
21:52that Rhonda was were was hyperfocused on
21:55and is still hyperfocused on from the
21:57moment from the moment she wakes up.
21:59That's what she thinks about. Okay. And
22:01so then the other thing is it has some
22:04impacts on our [clears throat]
22:07rights away and on our storm water and
22:10on our uh sewer. And so to the extent
22:15that that happens,
22:16>> infrastructure
22:17>> infrastructure, there is there is state
22:20law that allows us to mandate that that
22:24these providers
22:27compensate us for the cost, incremental
22:30cost that they the burden that they
22:33bring. But we can't impose a tax on
22:35them. But we can recover the incremental
22:38cost to say, "Look, you got to repave,
22:40you got to widen, [clears throat] you
22:42got to put sidewalks, you got to do all
22:44these things. You got to put
22:45signalization.
22:47You can require all of that and require
22:48them to pay for it. If you go through a
22:51process where that is a a a condition of
22:56them getting a permit to go forward,
22:58that's why you want a review process
23:01because you can control
23:06you can control all those things. Okay.
23:08>> This is a very formal committee.
23:10>> Sorry. Go ahead.
23:11>> So, so I mean essentially serious
23:13>> that's that's what I think if you have
23:17all of these proposals on the table,
23:19some of them are going to go outside the
23:21sphere that we control. And if we're
23:24going to be talking about what to do,
23:28we need to stay in our lane in my
23:30opinion. Now,
23:31>> you're going to have people that want to
23:32talk about all these other things, but
23:34that is
23:37>> quite frankly
23:37>> what we can control. I think
23:38>> it's all about that's all political
23:40noise. That's not legislative noise. And
23:43that's what I want to make the
23:44distinction.
23:45>> All right. We've got council members in
23:46the queue. This is great. Councilwoman
23:48Logan, then Carlile Walker Warren and
23:50the chairwoman. Go ahead.
23:52>> Thank you, Chair. Um, and thank you for
23:54that opening. Um, Mr. way. I want to
23:56make sure that it's noted on record that
24:01we have a certain responsibility as a
24:05council. We have a certain jurisdiction
24:07and purview and we are elected to ensure
24:11that we represent the constituents,
24:14represent our city and our natural
24:15resources and our land based on our
24:18purview. And the sooner we do that, the
24:23the more um the more energy and and time
24:27we put into that is going to be better
24:29for the constituents. And this thing
24:31about the moratorum, whether it's the
24:34moratorum or whether it's a year,
24:35whether it's 18 months, whether it's
24:37tomorrow, whether that is not the point
24:40because the point is saving our our
24:44natural [clears throat] resources. The
24:45point is protecting our our uh
24:47constituents, our citizens from harm and
24:51making certain that we are acting in
24:53their best interest. So to focus the
24:56attention on that is taking it off of
24:59the the main thing. We should keep the
25:01main thing the main thing. And we know
25:03everybody up here knows that our lane
25:06deals with zoning. And the reason why
25:09all of those people could come in our
25:11city and build without us knowing is
25:13because of the zoning. They're allowed
25:16to. They have the money to. They can
25:18come in because of the zoning and bill
25:21where they want to build. We have to
25:23change that. And that does not take 18
25:25months. You can't take 18 months of
25:27that. And you don't intend to. We we did
25:29a 245day I sponsored it moratorum uh in
25:34my first term on gas stations because
25:36they were there was a proliferation of
25:38them coming to our city going in our
25:40every week we were dealing with gas
25:43stations coming here gas station
25:44everybody was saying they're coming in
25:46black communities black and brown
25:47communities and they were and if you
25:49look at the national charts and the data
25:51there was only a certain amount that
25:53should have been there allowed to come
25:54but we didn't know any of that we didn't
25:56have any guidance on that and once we
25:58did we said hold let's pause and DPD
26:01under then John Zena said I asked him
26:03what is the highest and best use of this
26:05opportunity and he said downgrade the
26:07zonings, you'll protect your your
26:09communities overall. But if you start
26:11going one by one in this gas station,
26:14that gas station, you're going to miss
26:15something. So the we started downgrading
26:18the zoning to protect our communities
26:22where where they had where they could go
26:24by right and where we wanted them to go.
26:26The way to get to where we wanted them
26:28to go is to change the zoning. And
26:29that's what we're going to have to do
26:31now. or else talking about how much
26:33electricity they use has nothing to do
26:36with where they're located under our
26:38jurisdiction. That is everybody has
26:40their own jurisdiction. We deal with
26:42zoning. We deal with permitting
26:44locations, special use requirements,
26:46setbacks, buffers, site development, and
26:49mainly application requirements, land
26:51use, and mainly our natural resources.
26:53our natural resources. Um, TVA and
26:57MLG&W, which I think if you're really
27:00concerned about that, that is where you
27:02should go. You can go to TVA, MLGW, tell
27:05them what you want as it relates to your
27:07electric service, the system capacity,
27:09intercon intercon interconnection,
27:12utility, infrastructure, and applicable
27:15service requirements. If you're
27:16concerned about the environmental
27:18permits, the air quality, the
27:19wastewater, the water withdrawal, storm
27:21water, and all of that, that is Tde from
27:24the state. And then in in our
27:26jurisdiction, it's the Shelby County
27:28Health Department. We are dealing with
27:31everybody else's jurisdiction because we
27:34can't tell them to come here and talk to
27:35us. We can't make them come here. We
27:37can't make them do anything. It as your
27:39representatives, we can ask them to come
27:41and give you their part, but we can't
27:44make anybody do anything. if we had a
27:46year study, a two-year study, they don't
27:48have to come. I mean, because that's
27:50their jurisdiction. So, I what my um
27:53request is that as a body, we deal with
27:56the main things first. Let's get our
27:58zoning right. We don't have to take
28:00three years for that a year. We don't
28:02have to take, you know, any time other
28:05than what it takes to do it. And we
28:08really require that it be done sooner
28:10than later. If we need to pause
28:12accepting permits during this time, that
28:14is fine. But it's to get to an end, not
28:17to just have a pause because that's a
28:19national conversation. We're not
28:20interested in that. We need to protect
28:22our resources and our land and our
28:24people. And we can do that in a very
28:26short term. And if we need to pause
28:28during that time, that's what we have to
28:29do to protect that because we were not
28:31we didn't already have that in place.
28:34That is what I have to say. And I feel
28:35that is what's necessary based on our
28:38jurisdiction and purpose.
28:42All right. Thank you, Councilwoman. Um,
28:44we've got Council Carlile.
28:46>> Thank you, Chairman.
28:48All right. So, we have a very good
28:51framework for a lot of in-depth
28:53discussion, some new, some covering some
28:55old stuff, older stuff, but bringing
28:56back up. I I guess for me is is it
28:59instead of just diving in, my question
29:01is is can we just reframe where we are?
29:04Like we're kind of starting the dialogue
29:05over, but we already kind of know where
29:07everybody's driving to. Meaning like
29:08director Ragdale in in the standard use
29:10permit or the special use permit
29:12vernacular in a general term like it's a
29:15wide net based on a definition in the
29:17UDC that triggers a series of events
29:20broadly speaking. Yes. And in that
29:22series of events it triggers both public
29:24hearings
29:26typically through the land use control
29:28board and then on to the Memphis City
29:30Council. Yes. And as attorney Wade said
29:33it can be conditioned and I don't want
29:35to say customized every time. there has
29:37to be some sort of,
29:40you know, precedence for it, right? Or
29:42else there is litigation. I guess my
29:44point is is that the stop all that can
29:48continue to be worked on is this special
29:51use permit. It is the fastest way to at
29:54least put from the city of Memphis's
29:56standpoint outside of the outside of the
29:58power of the pen
30:00to put something some regulatory piece
30:03in place that would at least send it to
30:05public comment
30:08and to public hearing bodies for
30:10regulation. Is that fair?
30:13>> Yes, I would agree.
30:14>> All right. So, that answers the outcome
30:15we've talked about. So, that's one
30:17outcome. It's like why are we talking
30:19about anything else? And again, I'm not
30:20trying to shut anybody down, but like
30:21we're we continue to like kind of like
30:24talk to the public and like explain out
30:25it's it's like at some point we've got
30:27to start getting to the vote. And I'm
30:28not trying to stop the process, but it's
30:29like we already know that one is
30:30planning and zoning and it's a special
30:32use permit. And it's it's it can I guess
30:35you can add more conditions to it on the
30:36front end, but they're going to be added
30:38each and every time like a hotel does.
30:41Each and every time they are unique in
30:43their way. And then to Councilwoman
30:45Logan's point about looking at
30:46comprehensive zoning, like that's a
30:47parallel path. And then for the pause,
30:50like yeah, I mean, if you want to add,
30:52again, I've said this, if you added a
30:53pause through the zoning regulation,
30:55then you're there. And so, like, your
30:56pause is the length of however long it
30:58takes to go through the zoning period.
31:00Like, where where's the complicated
31:02piece in this guys? I mean, I'm not
31:03trying to be like short, but like I'm
31:04lost because I'm maybe I came in late,
31:06but like it's not that complicated.
31:08>> Well, I think people are scared. Well,
31:10excuse me.
31:10>> Yeah. No, go ahead.
31:11>> I think let's have a conversation. I
31:13just don't
31:14>> Absolutely. Look, I agree with
31:15everything you said, but I think other
31:16council members are hearing from
31:18constituents, and I think that we're
31:20still learning the differences between
31:22the four pieces of legislation that
31:24people worked really hard on to try to
31:26do. And so, I think we're all kind of
31:27going,
31:28>> but is this a participation thing where
31:29it's like because they worked hard on
31:30it, we need to hear it, or if we know
31:31that they're not going to do it, why are
31:32we being disingenuous about it? And
31:35again, the moratorum like has been
31:36addressed. We know that we can't there's
31:38certain things that we can't do. And I'm
31:39just trying to get us back to the
31:40business of the city as fast as humanly
31:42possible. And so that's that.
31:45>> Well, go ahead.
31:49>> Yeah, I'm not trying to just
31:52>> legislationally
32:03you can accomplish some of the things
32:05that the moratorum sought to accomplish
32:07and some of the things that all the
32:09ordinances sought to accomplish. you
32:11could, you know, we learned some things
32:14from from Mr. Musk's endeavor into our
32:17city and we learned how they can bring
32:20their own utilities to the table. So,
32:22you know, I think we've been working,
32:25you know, with DPD. They've looked at
32:28the ordinance and we're going to work
32:29through it to try to try to get
32:30something that's really really good. But
32:33essentially, you can accomplish some of
32:36the same things by saying one, you have
32:39to have your electric consumption permit
32:45in place before you start the problem.
32:48>> Okay, wait. Pause there. So, do we say
32:50that now?
32:52>> You put that in,
32:53>> but do we say that now?
32:55>> In the ordinance that I did that's in
32:56there. Okay.
32:58Demonstrate that. But I want to ask
33:00Councilman Carlile, do you know whose
33:02ordinance has that in the text?
33:04>> Say again now.
33:05>> None of them.
33:05>> No. Yeah. I mean, he does. I mean, and
33:07with all due respect, like he he he
33:09doesn't. And so that's why I grabbed it
33:11has it in there. That's exactly
33:12>> With all due respect, I don't have to
33:13know that. Like that's why I've got
33:15counsel. Yeah. But we're
33:17>> off the top of my head.
33:18>> But you're about to pass a law.
33:19>> I'm not about to do anything. I'm making
33:20the law and I'm trying to get there.
33:22>> That's exactly right. But you want us to
33:23rush.
33:24>> Would you clarify what you said? With
33:25>> all due respect, we're all trying to
33:27>> show time is not my thing. Like
33:29>> let me finish.
33:30>> So there there are a number of number of
33:33requirements that an applicant has to
33:36do. They have to provide a study that a
33:39feasibility study. They have to provide
33:41a sound study. Uh they have to provide
33:45uh a buffer study. They have to provide
33:48a lot of different things that answers
33:51the fears of our community that that are
33:54being espoused in all of these various
33:56ordinances. So you you can but you do
33:59have to have some objectively attainable
34:03criteria because if you start going too
34:05subjective then they'll never get a
34:08permit and you going to be sued by
34:10people that can kick our butts. Okay? So
34:13I'm just telling you what you have to do
34:16is have the non-discretionary criteria
34:19that if they cross off all of the boxes
34:23they get a permit. But if they do that,
34:25they will assure you that they they're
34:28not going to be too close. They're going
34:30to pay all the cost of doing our roads
34:33and and infrastructure. They're going to
34:36show you that they're going to sound,
34:39dust, vibration. They're going to assure
34:42you that they're going to have
34:43electricity so that they won't go
34:45bringing turbines in. So I mean all
34:47those things we we we have built into
34:50the conditions and that's how you can do
34:53more than just tick off some zoning
34:56boxes. You can accomplish some of the
34:58other goals that you want to go go
35:00through through a site review process,
35:02but it can't be too discretionary. I'm
35:04just pointing that out to you.
35:06>> Application process, right?
35:08>> Correct. Okay. Right.
35:09>> Yeah.
35:10>> With new specifics that you've added.
35:12>> Yeah. Okay. Uh, Councilwoman Walker or
35:15wait, Council Carlau.
35:17>> Yeah, I mean I my still poses a question
35:19like again we're gonna this this thing
35:21is going to go for first reading today.
35:23It's going to come down to the like
35:25again I'm happy and I've I sorry I
35:28haven't memorized every document. It's
35:29not to be disrespectful. It's because
35:30I've listened intently to each and every
35:32argument that has been made. And again,
35:35I'm just I'm not trying to disrespect
35:37the process. I think we can have these
35:38information sessions and they're
35:39important, but sometimes I think they
35:41are what causes us to get down so far
35:43into the weeds that we again forget at
35:44the very end what the outcome was, which
35:46is where we felt like we got here. And
35:48all I'm saying is is outside of the
35:50process
35:51>> and these in these drafted drafted
35:54ordinances,
35:55>> the content is there.
35:57>> We've looked at most of the ones that
35:58members want to implement. Why don't we
35:59start implementing those? Like and and
36:02again, there's s what three readings to
36:04continue to work on it. And if a new
36:06ordinance with a with a caption bill
36:07needs to go forward that's more broad
36:09like that could start in the meeting
36:11today.
36:11>> That's what we're Yeah.
36:12>> Yeah. And and so the point is is like
36:14>> why do we have to look at what's on the
36:16table now instead of just saying hey
36:17we've discussed this these came out
36:19there wasn't a lot of agreement then
36:21>> I think maybe you missed the opening
36:22statement. That's what we're doing is
36:25we're talking about the existing
36:26ordinance and all the other ones so that
36:28we can build a consensus
36:30>> just and maybe that but you actually did
36:32miss that. So it's what you want,
36:35>> you know. But here's the deal. Like I,
36:36you know, JB gave me grief for not being
36:38here. You know, I talk too much. I talk
36:40too little. Like I'm here because I want
36:42to drive this to resolution because in
36:45the weeks leading up to it, it seems
36:46like it's been a like difficult to do
36:48that and it's not a direction to you.
36:49It's like again, I want to do the work,
36:52but I don't have 5 days to give to this
36:54like in a row. I don't. Let me let me
36:56let me
36:56>> like I I don't I don't have the amount
36:57of time that you require to do this. We
37:00have we did for the council members.
37:02>> Let me have a friendly let me have a
37:04friendly disagreement with my colleague.
37:06I mean business
37:09>> goes in a straight path and that's why
37:11we have data center out there right now
37:13that's been built. I mean he don't have
37:15to answer to constituents. Okay. You do.
37:18So the process of making law is
37:21sometimes ugly and but it it achieves a
37:24purpose. now and I understand I want to
37:26be as efficient as you do but but I
37:28think I think we have a path an
37:31efficient path that's going forward to
37:33do our zoning but at the end of the day
37:36I think it is worthy for us to have a
37:40forum to inform the public about these
37:44things so that they'll know that what
37:46we're doing is on the right path. I mean
37:49even I mean I think it it is worthy
37:51because people have misconceptions about
37:54what's going on out there and what's
37:57happening and so on and so forth. And so
37:59it's it's you know we can be the beacon
38:02of saying we are an information source
38:04that gives you the real deal as we see
38:07it. You know what I'm saying? Now that
38:08may have nothing to do with the path
38:10we're going on to get the zoning done
38:12which we're going to do. Okay. So and
38:14that's going to be done through a
38:16technical
38:17>> right
38:17>> streamline process. You're going to get
38:19your wish there.
38:20>> Perfect. And that's my wish is what I
38:21think the people want, which is
38:22regulation as soon as possible.
38:23>> But but they also want to hear from you
38:26about
38:27>> what these things are and what they are.
38:30Point of clarification.
38:31>> I just want to say real quick. I want to
38:32give I just want to say
38:34>> clarify what you're saying so I can I
38:35want to understand you. I want to
38:37understand what you were saying. It's
38:38very simple. Is are you saying that
38:40special use permit is the way to go to
38:44>> it is the simplest,
38:46fastest, and accomplishes the outcome to
38:50start. And by the way, no piece of
38:52legislation is perfect. It is it should
38:54be watched. It's going to change. I
38:57mean, I talked to somebody that sat in
38:58the room with the man for 30 minutes at
39:00a meeting and told me that and this
39:02person I have a huge amount of respect
39:04for. Said that that guy is thinking on a
39:06totally different plane.
39:08Like again, I say that to say that the
39:10world is evolving so rapidly. It's going
39:12to need to evolve. Like it's going to
39:15need time. But like this, but we want to
39:17make it so complex that we just continue
39:18to kind of beat the bush. Like what I
39:20really was saying is like I'm not
39:21against this process. And I agree with
39:22everything you're both trying to do, but
39:24I often see this body explaining itself
39:26into a tizzy to the public, but not
39:28really to the public to the point where
39:29again we get to the point where we've
39:30talked so much we forgot what we were
39:31actually doing. And I just don't want us
39:32to run down the road. I'm not dismissing
39:34this. I think it's a good process, but
39:35I'm just worried about that because I
39:36see it over and over again when we've
39:39kind of got to where we are, we just
39:40continue to explain ourselves. That's
39:42all.
39:43>> Attorney Wade, did you agree with that?
39:45Did you just say that you agree with
39:46that? But we need to continue the dis
39:49the conversation.
39:50>> I think I think we have an ordinance u
39:54first reading on consent and that's
39:56going to take a course. Okay. In the
39:59meantime, there is a whole lot of
40:01misunderstanding about what we do and
40:05what these things do. And I think we can
40:08be the people that digest the
40:10information and and provide it to the
40:12public so they'll know what's going on.
40:14>> So, are you saying yes or no? Are you
40:16saying that that that
40:17>> they can go parallel path
40:19>> the special use permit is the way to go
40:22but yet we should continue to have these
40:24hearings that um
40:26>> inform those are to inform the public
40:29and like you said those are two things
40:30that can happen at the same time. So to
40:32get to the point to where we're
40:33protecting ourselves what do we need to
40:35do point blank.
40:36>> Okay. So, so technically the one thing
40:40that may be uh somewhat of a compromise
40:44is that I think the the zoning path
40:47needs to go forward and
40:50probably you'd have a limited moratorum.
40:54>> Yeah.
40:54>> Until that is completed. Okay. But it
40:57can't be it can't be the the moratorum
41:01can't be a barrier.
41:04>> Absolutely. That's the problem is that
41:06and that's what state law prevents,
41:08right? You can't have
41:10>> a moratorum that's a de facto
41:12prohibition against the activities. And
41:14so what we have
41:16>> it's always better legally if you're
41:19going to have a moratorum to have a
41:22process that's going that you're
41:24protecting while you go forward. If you
41:26don't have a process and you just got a
41:28pure per se,
41:30>> I'm telling you something, the courts
41:31ain't going to go for that. They going
41:33to kick that to the curb in a minute
41:35because because they're going to say,
41:36"Well, you know, you've demonstrated
41:39that y'all can't make a decision."
41:42That's where it's going to be. And it's
41:43just going to be a flatout prohibition.
41:45And that's not going to be accepted.
41:46>> So, as our council, what are you saying?
41:49>> I'm saying that I mean, I've already put
41:52on the table what I tried to do is marry
41:55everybody's thing together. Put the
41:57highlights of what you're trying to
41:59protect from. I mean, put it in there.
42:02so that we address it and consider it
42:05this body through a special use or site
42:09plan review process. Yeah.
42:11>> We evaluate all the things that the the
42:13community is complaining about and make
42:15sure it don't happen again. Right.
42:17>> And then make a decision. If they check
42:20the boxes, we let people go and we
42:22decide where they go. Okay? So to me,
42:25you got ultimate control. You don't need
42:28a moratorum if you got that control.
42:30They got to go through you before
42:32anything else. Right. And as I think
42:33that's what the people have elected you
42:35for.
42:36>> Absolutely.
42:36>> So I mean
42:37>> and at the same time we can do the
42:39hearings for education, educate the
42:40public, ask questions because the
42:42questions and the things that we're
42:43having a hearing on are not things
42:45that's under our jurisdiction anyways.
42:47But we are
42:49>> I will tell you that it's unfortunate
42:50through the application.
42:51>> It's unfortunate that we got to the
42:53point where we're reacting rather than
42:56being proactive. Yeah.
42:58>> And had we been the beacon of
43:00information on the front end, we
43:02probably could have avoided a lot of the
43:04contentiousness that we have now against
43:06us and everybody.
43:07>> And I think look, I want to interject. I
43:09mean, we all watched on TV and heard of
43:11the announcement just like everybody
43:12else. And I think people tend to forget
43:14that. So that's I'm excited that we're
43:16having these hearings. I understand
43:18where Councilman Carile's from because I
43:20wish we had all this done yesterday, you
43:22know.
43:23>> Yeah.
43:23>> But uh that's the intent of these
43:25hearings is exactly that, right? So, for
43:27an example, on Tuesday, October 29th,
43:29we've got community environmental
43:32protections, noise, water, air quality,
43:33neighborhood infrastructure,
43:35presentations and discussions with MLGW,
43:37TVA, health department, TEC. Anything
43:39else we y'all can, you know, we want to
43:42put in here. Let me say there one thing
43:44I'll also be able to say what we control
43:47and what we don't control.
43:48>> Well, I want to talk about that issue.
43:50Yeah, go ahead. There's one thing I did
43:51omit. Um the one thing that is not
43:57controlled by any other agency is
44:02sound.
44:04>> Um noise and sound. That's strictly
44:09within your per
44:11>> Yeah. And we don't have right now our
44:14our ordinances only address
44:18noise related to automobiles. It doesn't
44:21address noise related. I mean, it says
44:24that the city can construct but within
44:27certain hours. Private can construct
44:30within certain hours. But it doesn't
44:32talk about the operation of these
44:33facilities where they create obnoxious
44:37sound. We have no ordinances for that
44:40and we need to address that.
44:41>> Well, I have an electric car so you know
44:44I don't make too much sound. Sorry. Will
44:46they be doing that? Will DPD will they
44:49be making I mean that recommendation?
44:52>> No, no, no, no. Part of
44:54>> the conditions is that they have to have
44:57a sound remediation plan that we
44:59evaluate.
45:00>> That's in your
45:01>> That's Yes. Correct. That would have
45:03that would be in the review process.
45:05>> Okay.
45:06>> So, so we have the authority under state
45:08law to regulate that. So you can do it
45:11indirectly by making sure that they have
45:14an adequate sound remediation plan.
45:17>> They their adequate may not be our
45:18adequate. We need a ordinance to
45:20determine our adequate.
45:21>> Yeah, we do that. So they'll have some
45:23objective criteria [clears throat] that
45:24they can.
45:25>> So that's on the that's on the agenda.
45:27Yeah.
45:27>> To dive into next time.
45:29>> Okay.
45:29>> Is that you see what I'm saying? Like
45:31we're going to we're going to tighten
45:32that up.
45:32>> You got anything else?
45:34>> Yes. And I'm sorry I keep interjecting.
45:35Councilwoman Walker's in the queue next.
45:38I keep interrupting, too.
45:40>> No, this is good.
45:41>> All right, so Councilwoman Logan's good.
45:43We're going to go to Councilwoman
45:44Walker, and we're going to keep doing
45:45this for another two hours and 15
45:47minutes. So, if we move fast, there's a
45:49lot of people in the queue. Go ahead,
45:50Councilwoman Walker.
45:52>> Thank you, Mr. Chair. So, I am glad that
45:54we are doing this today. I feel that it
45:57is overdue and although I was I have
46:01been in support of the moratorum for the
46:04past three meetings. Um I just want to
46:07go on reckon and say I feel that this
46:10process has been rushed and we should
46:13have been doing something like this
46:16months ago. And that's not to throw
46:18anybody under the bus, and I hope it's
46:20okay for me to say it because I'm saying
46:22it, but um
46:26Mr. Ragsdale, you came before us. I was
46:29at home with my arm in a sling, but um
46:33Councilwoman Cooper Sutton asked you to
46:35come here and talk about
46:38>> zoning as it relates to data centers.
46:40You did a presentation. It was a great
46:42presentation as to how you how you all
46:45would go about structuring
46:47this. Um, everyone wasn't here to hear
46:51it. I did go back and watch it a couple
46:53of times. Then I had a meeting with you
46:57to go over it because I wanted to be
46:58clear because I do believe along with
47:01um, Councilwoman Logan and some of the
47:03other colleagues that the most important
47:04thing to this is the zoning. You can't
47:07do anything without a parcel.
47:09You just can't do anything without a
47:11parcel. And as we move through this,
47:15I think that we should have consulted
47:18the experts first and then drafted the
47:21moratorum.
47:23The reason why I hadn't been bugging
47:25folks about a moratorum
47:28is I was waiting on you. I thought we
47:30were waiting on you before we would move
47:33forward. And the first and the second
47:36time that you came, you said you would
47:37have something for us mid to late
47:40October, and here we are to be presented
47:42to the city and the county.
47:46Um, as it relates to the information and
47:50citizens being informed, I along with
47:53President McGawan and Chief Madden, we
47:56did do an information session and that
48:00was in summer of 24. And looking back,
48:03we probably should have done that every
48:06other month or every two months cuz what
48:08happened after that was all these
48:10meetings and gaslighting and
48:13misinformation
48:14being shared and here we are today. So
48:18with respect to the information
48:21and closing the information gap that's
48:24going to be covered a lot of this
48:26information if not it's going to be
48:28covered in the environmental education
48:30piece that's inside of the community
48:34benefits ordinance. So I want to inform
48:37some and remind others of that today.
48:43I got in the queue when
48:46Councilwoman White was talking
48:49about how soon others could come on
48:53board and the timeline and all of that.
48:55So if this is only if this is not going
48:58to apply those who are already here but
49:01those who are coming up. So are you
49:03saying attorney Wade that this would
49:05apply to those who are currently in the
49:08queue when President McGawan was saying
49:10that there are others coming but it
49:12wouldn't be for at least 6 months. So is
49:15this going to apply to them or at what
49:17point in the process
49:20with an for an entity with this apply
49:22to?
49:26So because they can't go forward without
49:29a commitment to have electric power
49:33uh there is some built-in delay but once
49:37they have that permit and then they
49:39start buying property locating and doing
49:42things then it would apply to them. So
49:44that's why we need to have the zoning in
49:46place to require all of these different
49:49reviews before that happens.
49:52>> So you're saying upon acquiring a
49:54parcel? Not necessarily that, but when
49:57you ask for a permit and you start
49:59spending money pursuant to the permit
50:01and there's no process for review before
50:04you get that permit, then you vest it.
50:07>> Okay. Thank you. And then about the
50:10sound and the noise. So there's an
50:12opportunity. So anything that the any
50:15way that we would address the sound and
50:17the noise would it be inside of this
50:19what we're working on or that would be
50:21something additional outside
50:23supplemental too.
50:25>> We we technically I mean police right
50:29now they uh enforce
50:31sound disturbances.
50:33I mean, probably not as much as they
50:35should when you know people have these
50:38um
50:39what do they call
50:40>> would it fall under a nuisance?
50:42>> Yeah, it could be a nuisance and
50:44therefore I mean when these they have
50:46these parties at these short-term rental
50:49things they make noise all night long
50:51and then the police come and say you
50:52violating a noise ordinance and I'm
50:54going what Norris ordinance? So you have
50:57to do it se you have to do a noise
50:59ordinance and you have to
51:02require specialized noise remediation
51:05when these things come online because
51:07they make a lot of noise and they have
51:09to insulate their properties and do
51:11whatever.
51:12>> Okay. Thank you. I yield the floor.
51:15>> All right. Uh council man council man
51:18>> Warren.
51:24Hey, actually for the record, we've got
51:26Councilwoman Cooper Sutton, Councilwoman
51:28Warren, Councilwoman White, Councilwoman
51:30Logan, Councilwoman Canali is here,
51:33Madam Chair, Senator Washington,
51:35Councilwoman Walker, Councilwoman Ford.
51:37We've got the full body here.
51:38Councilwoman Smiley, Councilwoman Easter
51:40Thomas, Councilwoman Carlile Green is
51:42missing.
51:42>> Oh, I'm so sorry. We're missing
51:43Councilwoman Green.
51:45>> So, everybody but Councilwoman Green.
51:47All right, Councilwoman Warren, go for
51:48it.
51:48>> Thank you. You know, one of the things
51:50that I was hoping we were going to do is
51:52to get this information out about what
51:55Allan had done with all our ordinances.
51:58And I just want to make sure that the
51:59public understands that what we're doing
52:02is if within three readings
52:05that his ordinance law will be in place.
52:09Okay. And that allows us to have the
52:13DPD, you know, regulation of those. Is
52:17that correct, Alan? when so when we read
52:20that
52:20>> correct
52:20>> so we're talking about
52:23>> four weeks from now
52:25>> we potentially are going to have
52:27ordinances that can control what we
52:30legally can control based out of all of
52:32our other ordinances is that correct
52:34>> that's correct
52:35>> okay so just for people who are looking
52:37for a moratorum
52:39what we're telling you is we can have
52:41regulations in place in four weeks and
52:44that's what we think we need to be able
52:46to pull off now here's the thing that I
52:48want us to be able to come think about
52:50while we're here and I want us to be
52:52creative about it and some of the things
52:55that Councilman Spinosa brought up about
52:58community benefit agencies, some of the
53:01things that the assessor brought up
53:03about how we can tax differently for use
53:06in the amount of money that comes
53:08through a facility. Uh, I mean, there
53:10are things that I think that we legally
53:12can do or other places do that we're
53:15going to need to ask the state for help
53:17for. So we, you know, what I would like
53:19us to do is to see can we write some
53:22enabling legislation that we know is not
53:26necessarily legal at this point and make
53:28it clear that that's what we're doing to
53:31allow, you know, our leaders and
53:33business community to take that to
53:35Nashville and see if we can get laws
53:38that are passed that allow us to take
53:40money from these facilities and then put
53:43it into this community benefit agency to
53:46where we can spend money on roads. We
53:48can spend money on communities. We can
53:50spend money on programs and parks. And
53:53essentially, if we do this in such a way
53:56that the we can get permission from the
53:58state, we can actually dramatically
54:01increase the amount of money that we
54:02have coming in. That's enabling
54:05legislation. I'd like, you know, Allan
54:07to comment about, you know, how we do
54:11that and how we can bring it up. And I
54:13think that should be separate from
54:15getting our regulations in place and you
54:18know have it to where this is under
54:20control. So I'm a firm believer that if
54:24we can have this done in four weeks all
54:26that we can do legally then that's what
54:30we should do. Okay. And that doesn't
54:32require a moratorum to have four weeks
54:36regulation. I'm worried that a moratorum
54:40will send a message to people who want
54:42to put these facilities here that we
54:45don't want them and they have other
54:48places they can go. We don't need to
54:51take potential income away from our city
54:55and make people think we don't want them
54:57to come here. So, I'm I'm worried about
54:59that. Uh and I'd like to hear my
55:02colleagues comments on it. Thank you.
55:04>> Yes.
55:04>> Thank you. C Thank you, Councilwoman
55:06Warren. To your point, Dr. Warren,
55:08>> Hold on one second.
55:09>> He said he wanted to hear his his
55:10colleagues coming.
55:11>> He he did, but he also asked, [laughter]
55:13and I want to say something, too. I
55:15promise. Attorney Wade, I felt like he
55:17directed a question towards you.
55:20>> Yeah. I mean, he's talked to me about um
55:23some approaches to
55:25>> I think it's on
55:27>> it is
55:28>> um he directed some
55:31I mean I've talked to Councilman Warren
55:34about the community benefit piece which
55:37is obviously outside our purview at this
55:40point. Uh there are a number of
55:43different models that may be able to be
55:46used
55:47um but you would have to have state uh
55:51approval to pursue them. You know, we do
55:54have some models for how our airport was
55:57developed through an authority. Those
56:00may
56:02>> some people may have some reticence
56:04about them, the way they're taking those
56:06over at the state level, but but I think
56:09we have some strong leadership
56:12uh business leadership here that would
56:14try to keep that from happening. So, so
56:16I would, you know, I'd have to think
56:18through it, but I'm hyperfocused on
56:20getting this other thing.
56:21>> Alan, did you say you thought there was
56:22business leadership that did not want
56:24that to happen
56:25>> that said that would try to protect it
56:28if
56:28>> we would protect the legislation if we
56:30sent it to Nashville and try to get it
56:32through?
56:33>> Let me let me offer this, Council
56:35Warren, and I say this humbly. On this
56:37calendar, the fourth meeting is
56:40community benefits. So, if you want to
56:42champion this, I know what day is in.
56:45And here here's what I just let me
56:46finish real quick.
56:49>> Uh JB's moratorum ordinance. Um capital
56:53fund and benefit concepts, operative
56:54fiscal terms. He had some stuff. He had
56:57language in there. Confirm fund
56:58contributions do not assume a binding
57:00half percent obligation. Uh none of that
57:03is in Logan's. None of that was in
57:05yours, Councilman Warren. And that's
57:06cool. I'm just saying factually
57:08spinosas had a contractual 5% growth
57:11dividend with discretionary public. So
57:14these this is warrant this warrants a
57:16day to me and that gives you a week is
57:19what I have on here a week and a half.
57:21So get to work please to have an
57:23in-depth conversation on that. I would
57:25like for us to please I want us all to
57:27speak. I'm not trying to control by
57:28saying but today is about the ordinance
57:31language and really planning and zoning
57:34stuff if that makes sense. So, as we
57:36talk about it, I'm not trying to control
57:38what anybody's saying, but that's
57:39something we can definitely dig into,
57:41you know, in two more, three more
57:43meetings. So, I didn't mean to cut you
57:44off. Do you have anything else you want
57:45to comment on? I know there's a lot of
57:47council.
57:48>> Uh, no. I mean, I I think that it's is
57:51back to Councilman Carlile's point is
57:53where do we want to be? Okay. What do we
57:56want to have in place? We want less
57:59pollution, water protected. We want
58:02these facilities that are bringing us
58:04income. We want them to be able to come
58:06here safely. Okay. Right now, you know,
58:10everyone the the idea that the community
58:12has bought or been sold is that somehow
58:15if we pass a moratorum, all the
58:18construction is going to stop on
58:19Colossus 2.
58:20>> We got it.
58:20>> There's going to be no more air
58:22pollution that everything's going to be
58:24fine. But that's not going to happen
58:26with the
58:27>> work to be done. Yeah.
58:28>> There's nothing. All that does is
58:30potentially damage our ability to get
58:33income into our city that we need. So if
58:36in four weeks we can do everything
58:39possible based on what our legal ability
58:42is right now. And I believe anybody who
58:45knows that it's going to be Alan Wade
58:46and that's what he's telling us.
58:47>> We're doing it. Yeah. We're doing the
58:48work. We're doing the work.
58:49>> Everything else. So to do anything else
58:52to pacify people who are out there with
58:56incorrect information and are doing
58:58things for political purposes so they
59:00can win campaigns, you know, I mean this
59:03in my mind, you know, we have to be the
59:05grown-ups in the room.
59:07>> We have to be the grown-ups in the room.
59:08>> I'm literally pushing mute. Thank you.
59:10All right, Councilwoman Walker.
59:12>> So I'd like to think that I'm one of the
59:13grown-ups in the room.
59:14>> I know you are. Uh and um so let's mo I
59:19just want to take a minute or two and
59:21talk about this thing about they're
59:24going elsewhere. Elsewhere where?
59:26Because wherever else they go there will
59:29be a process.
59:31There will be a process that these
59:33entities are not going anywhere and just
59:36post up. So to me that comes across like
59:42a threat and then we never get names of
59:46these entities. We never get names or
59:49locations or people. We we never So this
59:52area for me in this whole process has
59:56always been questionable because we
59:58never get the who, the what, the when.
1:00:01And back to what he was saying
1:00:06and I touched on it and Doug explained
1:00:08it more than once. There are individuals
1:00:13there are entities in a queue and
1:00:16they're waiting. They're going through a
1:00:18process to come online with us and that
1:00:21won't happen until next year. So if
1:00:24anyone comes after that, it's going to
1:00:27be after that. So when you say you're
1:00:29going elsewhere, you could be in the
1:00:31queue here waiting on us to get this
1:00:35situated because if you go, and I'm
1:00:37repeating myself, if you go anywhere
1:00:40else, you're still going to have to
1:00:42participate in the process. So I just
1:00:45find it concerning that that keeps being
1:00:48thrown at us. Well, they're going to go
1:00:50elsewhere. Elsewhere where where is
1:00:52there no process to do this?
1:00:56Councilwoman Attorney Wade.
1:00:58>> Um,
1:01:00so the process now for electric power in
1:01:04the Tennessee Valley is TVA and the
1:01:08local distributor.
1:01:10You go south in the Mississippi, you're
1:01:13dealing with all the things we talked
1:01:16about when we were talking about doing
1:01:17power generation. you have a private uh
1:01:21provider and you have to and that's
1:01:24what's what happened in Virginia. You
1:01:25have a multitude of providers and that's
1:01:28how it they get favored treatment.
1:01:31>> But with respect to Mississippi and the
1:01:34lawsuit, would they be offering people a
1:01:37buyout if they didn't think they were
1:01:38going to win the lawsuit?
1:01:40>> No.
1:01:42>> I yield the floor.
1:01:43>> No. No. I'm not disagreeing. I'm just
1:01:44saying.
1:01:47>> All right. We got uh madam
1:01:49>> I know all processes are not the same.
1:01:51Let me go on record and say that. Okay.
1:01:53Thank you.
1:01:54>> Madam chair.
1:01:56>> Thank you.
1:01:59>> With our special use permit. I'm
1:02:01wondering if we can put something in
1:02:02place. You had said that we have about
1:02:04four or five data centers that will be
1:02:06coming in the next what four or five
1:02:07months.
1:02:08>> Yes.
1:02:08>> How is [clears throat] it that we can
1:02:09put something in place so that we're
1:02:11notified prior to them going to
1:02:14>> MLGW? because now MLGW is telling us
1:02:18what's coming.
1:02:20>> Oh,
1:02:20>> is there any way that we can put a
1:02:21restriction that they are coming to us?
1:02:23For instance, if you're getting a permit
1:02:24with the city of Memphis, we receive
1:02:27notification of who's applied for the
1:02:28permit, where it will be, how many
1:02:30people are going to be there, however.
1:02:32>> Oh, abs. Absolutely. I mean, but I think
1:02:34they don't come to us until they have an
1:02:37agreement to get power. So, they go to
1:02:40the power source before they come to us.
1:02:44That's just the way they operate. Now,
1:02:47if they start trying to buy land and get
1:02:50permits to start doing that before,
1:02:54>> then that we have to have a process in
1:02:57place to stop that. And that's what this
1:02:59ordinance is trying to do. They would
1:03:01have to identify in the application who
1:03:02they are, where they're going, what
1:03:04they're going to do.
1:03:05>> That would be part of the application
1:03:07process.
1:03:07>> Yes. And they'd have to identify their
1:03:09megawatt requirements and that they have
1:03:12adequate
1:03:13contracts to get to power.
1:03:15>> Okay.
1:03:16>> Before they can go full.
1:03:17>> Okay. Sounds good. Okay.
1:03:20>> All right.
1:03:20>> Is that something that we
1:03:23can change, should change, add to the
1:03:27UDC to the ordinance that's before us
1:03:30for reading today.
1:03:31>> We cannot control who goes to TVA and go
1:03:35who goes to MLGW. That's up to them.
1:03:38Now, you may be able to ask them to
1:03:40notify you who they are. uh before they
1:03:43get here. But it's like the chicken and
1:03:45the egg. They the horse is is going to
1:03:49MLG&W to to drink water first before
1:03:52they start bringing the cart here. Okay.
1:03:54That's that's the the the hierarchy.
1:03:58Okay.
1:04:00Can you confirm that for us the next
1:04:01meeting?
1:04:02>> Sure.
1:04:03>> All right.
1:04:06>> Yeah. Right. Um well, that's what
1:04:08happened last time. The comment was we
1:04:10still need to be notified. Again, we're
1:04:12not trying to serve as a block on growth
1:04:15and good things.
1:04:16>> It helps us to know what's coming. You
1:04:18know what I'm saying?
1:04:19>> And this is all unprecedented stuff. So
1:04:20maybe we could look into that.
1:04:22>> I don't think we should be threatened.
1:04:24>> Of course not. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
1:04:27>> Hey, and I want to do this real quick
1:04:29and I want to because I want to ask you
1:04:30this. So on my ordinance,
1:04:33there's a a a moratorum that was
1:04:35indefinite. So just by acclamation, this
1:04:37is actually for the record. I want to
1:04:39make my ordinance expire on December
1:04:4331st, 2026.
1:04:46>> That's reasonable.
1:04:47>> So that's done.
1:04:48>> That could be tied into
1:04:52the moratorum could be built baked into
1:04:54the um the land use ordinance that's
1:04:58going through on first reading.
1:04:59>> So I had a
1:05:00>> or separately, I don't care.
1:05:01>> Yeah. Yeah. So just so so now for the
1:05:03record that's on the individual one that
1:05:05I did but let's hypothetically walk
1:05:06through it.
1:05:08It was a moratorum but you were still
1:05:10allowed to do everything. The only thing
1:05:12it was a moratorum on was final
1:05:14approval.
1:05:15So that means that a business could come
1:05:18to us a potential data center go through
1:05:20all the processes.
1:05:22>> Yeah. The problem is you don't have the
1:05:24processes.
1:05:25>> That's right. So that's
1:05:27>> so what you know I mean it it gets kind
1:05:29of messy because one thing you want you
1:05:32could do is say we we're pursuing this
1:05:36land use process and we want the
1:05:39moratorum to last until it is adopted.
1:05:42What you're saying is you want to give
1:05:44businesses the ability to opt in and say
1:05:48I agree to be bound by that before it's
1:05:51enacted but that gets missed. Okay. I
1:05:54mean I tried to think
1:05:55>> so I think all you want to do is just to
1:05:58protect the legislative process that's
1:06:00started and for as long as that's
1:06:03necessary and then once that's necessary
1:06:05the mortorium drops off the table.
1:06:07>> Yeah. And also
1:06:08>> and that's to keep that keeps anybody
1:06:09from sneaking in
1:06:11>> sneaking in.
1:06:14Yeah. Okay.
1:06:15>> I mean I think we're all on the same pa
1:06:17page that we don't want what happened to
1:06:21happen again.
1:06:22>> That's right. and we just might disagree
1:06:24on the degree and approach but I think
1:06:27you got to have something in place that
1:06:29gives you control and that's what I
1:06:32tried to provide to you
1:06:34>> well and I humbly see that as a
1:06:35compromise because you know doing that
1:06:38and putting that timeline on it we
1:06:40already have essentially a moratorum
1:06:41that's 45 days or 90 days while the
1:06:43process is going but it also protects us
1:06:45from somebody sneaking in under the old
1:06:46rules
1:06:48>> and then once we get the process done it
1:06:50could be four weeks. Yeah, it's done.
1:06:53>> Yeah. One thing I mean I I don't think
1:06:55vested rights are tied to ownership of
1:06:58property,
1:06:59>> but remember some prop I mean
1:07:03>> used to be that you go buy a property
1:07:04and it's zone for billboards than your
1:07:08grandfather. So what you you don't want
1:07:11people having that argument. So that's
1:07:13what a moratorum would do is prevent
1:07:15that from happening while you pursue.
1:07:17And I think it's always advisable to
1:07:20have a legislative process in place
1:07:22ongoing
1:07:24that you're protecting because the
1:07:27courts would think anything else is just
1:07:29a unilateral mortorium is a de facto
1:07:33prohibition against the use that you're
1:07:35talking about.
1:07:36>> Councilwoman Easter Thomas, she asked me
1:07:39when she was in the queue about 45
1:07:40minutes ago. Sorry, Councilwoman Easter
1:07:42Thomas.
1:07:45What you say? You always got a lot of
1:07:47notes. Uh, thank you, chair. Um,
1:07:50I just have a few questions and I guess
1:07:53they can all be uh geared towards
1:07:56attorney. Um, and some of these have
1:07:59started to be talked about, but since
1:08:00we're in the the thick of the sausage
1:08:02making, I figured it it would help me
1:08:04with the thinking. [snorts] Um, so thank
1:08:07you to staff who did the comparison and
1:08:09summaries though. Also, uh, what's the
1:08:11proposed and intended time frame of the
1:08:14ordinances 5985 and 86? I heard Spinosa
1:08:18say, um, end of the year, but is there
1:08:21like an intended time frame for uh,
1:08:24ordinance 5986?
1:08:27>> Uh, that depends on the body. I mean,
1:08:30>> well, I guess I guess that might be to
1:08:32the maker of the ordinance. the sponsors
1:08:34of those two had decided to table them
1:08:38while this other thing goes through. I
1:08:40think
1:08:40>> so 5986 just to clarify for the public
1:08:43and anybody watching is Councilwoman
1:08:44Warren's
1:08:46um and then there was I didn't see a
1:08:49number on Councilwoman Logan's um if
1:08:51that's what you're asking. And then
1:08:52>> on the report we only got three
1:08:56>> ordinances
1:08:57>> that so that may not if you've got
1:08:59numbers on which
1:09:00>> 5982
1:09:01>> which is a substitute ordinance that's
1:09:03the moratorum
1:09:04>> that's JB
1:09:04>> 5985
1:09:06>> n
1:09:07>> and then 5986
1:09:09>> warrant yeah
1:09:10>> so which one we missing
1:09:11>> Ron the one that was presented to us
1:09:13just Tuesday
1:09:14>> what number is that
1:09:15>> I don't know that it's
1:09:16>> there was not a number yet
1:09:17>> okay but that's not the resolution
1:09:19mentioned that's the resolution is
1:09:21Cooper Sutton's Right.
1:09:22>> Yes.
1:09:23>> Correct.
1:09:25>> Okay. So, are we not considering Logan's
1:09:27Logan's orders
1:09:32>> which is
1:09:35>> 5982 [clears throat]
1:09:37>> is the unnumbered one that we received
1:09:38Tuesday that
1:09:40>> the
1:09:4359
1:09:43>> the one that we comp 5987
1:09:45>> comprehensive
1:09:46>> that's 5987.
1:09:47>> So 5987.
1:09:49>> Okay.
1:09:55Right.
1:09:56>> That's what the meeting is.
1:09:57>> Yeah. Yeah.
1:09:58>> But if I write my name on
1:10:00>> We'll get you a number.
1:10:01>> Yeah.
1:10:01>> Mr. Chairman,
1:10:02>> I'll get you a number.
1:10:03>> Mr. Chair, do you mind cleaning up the
1:10:04record?
1:10:05>> Would you mind Mr. Chair, do you mind
1:10:07cleaning this clean this up?
1:10:08>> Yeah, I'm I'm about to. I'm sorry. I was
1:10:11listening over here. Yeah, exactly. All
1:10:12right. So, for the public where you're
1:10:14watching us do this in real time, she
1:10:16didn't have an ordinance number assigned
1:10:17to hers yet because we recessed in the
1:10:20magical way that we did two days ago.
1:10:22And so, here we are and we're talking
1:10:24about a her ordinance without a number.
1:10:26And we just found out, we all did in
1:10:28real time, that it's 598.
1:10:30>> Hers hers will be 5988.
1:10:33>> Hers will be 5988.
1:10:34>> And it will be
1:10:35>> So, it's not reading
1:10:38>> on consent.
1:10:40>> Okay. and it's first reading on consent
1:10:41>> and then y'all can decide to hold them
1:10:43and do whatever you want.
1:10:44>> Yeah. Yeah.
1:10:45>> Okay. So, back to the question. I'm
1:10:47still in the queue.
1:10:50>> Oh, let's not get Come on.
1:10:52[clears throat]
1:10:52>> 5985.
1:10:55>> You have You have
1:10:56>> It's four ordinances in one resolution.
1:10:58>> You have Logan's in your packet.
1:11:01>> Yeah. One, two, two, five, 82, 85, 86,
1:11:0687, 88. So, five ordinances in a
1:11:08resolution. ordinances in the in the
1:11:09resolution and from what attorney we
1:11:12just said the resolution has been
1:11:13bundled into
1:11:15>> No. Okay. Okay. Never mind. So the
1:11:18resolution stands
1:11:18>> alone.
1:11:23>> Okay.
1:11:24Back to the that helps the question
1:11:26then.
1:11:27>> Go ahead.
1:11:27>> Well, the first question uh so what is
1:11:29the proposed and intended time frame? I
1:11:31guess this is towards the makers of
1:11:33these ordinances for y'all's ordinances.
1:11:36>> Yeah. So I'll start. Mine was after
1:11:38third reading approval everything would
1:11:41go. But once you know JB Councilman
1:11:44Smally had his mine was introduced
1:11:47Warren was introduced now Logan. So
1:11:49we're holding them.
1:11:50>> No I'm sorry. Time frame as in for how
1:11:54long it would take of what you put in
1:11:56the ordinance to actually become law and
1:12:00regulation. You
1:12:01>> want me to answer that?
1:12:01>> Yeah. She he
1:12:03>> Yeah. Go ahead.
1:12:03>> Yeah.
1:12:04>> Okay. So like the mortorium is clear 18
1:12:06months but what's the time frame for
1:12:07every
1:12:07>> Okay. So the other two
1:12:09>> so I have a moratorum in mind indefinite
1:12:12>> that's my next question.
1:12:13>> Yeah.
1:12:14>> So the other all of the others are
1:12:17creating a framework.
1:12:19>> They require some additional action by
1:12:22this body to breathe life into the
1:12:24framework.
1:12:25>> So they don't have a deadline at this
1:12:27point.
1:12:28>> Okay.
1:12:29>> They just trigger us to do something in
1:12:32the future.
1:12:33>> Okay.
1:12:34Thank you. Uh turn away.
1:12:41>> Yours has 90day report.
1:12:47>> Yes. So, Councilwoman Logan is saying
1:12:49that within hers, and we mentioned this
1:12:51earlier, hers had a 45day analysis
1:12:53period and then a 90day
1:12:56>> final period
1:12:58>> to where it's done. Right.
1:13:00>> But we would still have to vote on it in
1:13:01the body. Correct.
1:13:05>> So what Alan said is
1:13:07>> okay. [snorts] So to clarify
1:13:11in those five ordinances
1:13:14all of them include a moratorum.
1:13:19>> No.
1:13:20>> Okay. So out of those five, which ones
1:13:24include a moratorum? Because earlier in
1:13:26discussion, more than two talked about a
1:13:30pause. So which ordinances actually have
1:13:33>> about the body putting a pause in not
1:13:37intricral to their proposals. Now
1:13:40Spinosa has it intricral in his
1:13:42proposal. It wasn't in Warren's and you
1:13:44say you had a a brief pause in Logan's.
1:13:48Um
1:13:49>> so it was just
1:13:51>> so so three of them have a moratorum.
1:13:53>> No. No.
1:13:54>> Okay. So let's explain the difference in
1:13:56a pause and a moratorum then.
1:13:58>> Yeah. Yeah. a moratorum. Well, they're
1:14:01about the same.
1:14:02>> So, three of them got a moratorum.
1:14:04>> Yeah. I mean, including
1:14:06>> now we're back to three.
1:14:07>> He has a moratorum.
1:14:08>> So, 5982 has a moratorium
1:14:10>> and two have a moratorum.
1:14:12>> We had I had a named moratorium that
1:14:14last year.
1:14:14>> There's two others other than his. So,
1:14:16there's three.
1:14:17>> So, three ordinances have a moratorum.
1:14:19>> Yes.
1:14:19>> Hers did not use the word moratorium. It
1:14:21just said 45 to 90 days.
1:14:23>> But she mean but it's a moratorum
1:14:25>> essentially.
1:14:26>> It's the same thing.
1:14:28Okay, just making sure. Um, I just want
1:14:31to make sure because I'm sure these are
1:14:34the same questions we might have going
1:14:36on, but especially if we have five
1:14:38different ones, it makes sense to see
1:14:41which ones to actually look at that are
1:14:43saying the same thing. So, does yours
1:14:45way that you put together comprehensive,
1:14:47does that have a moratorum or a pause in
1:14:50it?
1:14:50>> No, it does not. It has it's just a
1:14:53legislative process to go through three
1:14:55readings and then it'll be filed. Now,
1:14:58>> okay.
1:14:58>> What what we were talking about is do we
1:15:00want to introduce a a limited moratorum
1:15:05while that one is in place? You can
1:15:07amend the one that I have to put it in
1:15:09there, but it's not in there.
1:15:11>> Okay. Okay.
1:15:13>> And I want to move to amend it to one
1:15:15now, but I'm going to wait. [laughter]
1:15:18>> Okay. because I well in all honesty as
1:15:20we work through this I think everybody's
1:15:22seeing what we all agree with and so I
1:15:23feel like yours is leading the way.
1:15:25Sorry, just wanted to
1:15:26>> because three out of three out of five
1:15:28>> sound like a majority. Um so another
1:15:32question
1:15:35is so for the UDC update
1:15:39and this is 5986.
1:15:42So, is [snorts] this saying that the
1:15:44zoning regulation will be included in
1:15:46the UDC update or will it have to be
1:15:49added later?
1:15:51And I guess that might be for Wade and
1:15:53Rexdale.
1:15:54>> Okay. What's what'll happen with I think
1:15:58it's 5987
1:15:59is is the ordinance.
1:16:01>> 5987 is yours.
1:16:03>> Yes, that's the zoning ordinance.
1:16:05>> Okay.
1:16:06>> That will I mean the UDC is being
1:16:09updated. It'll be codified through the
1:16:11UDC process, but it will go into effect
1:16:14upon adoption
1:16:16>> separate from the UDC update.
1:16:17>> Yes.
1:16:18>> Okay. But codified into the actual UDC.
1:16:21>> Yes.
1:16:22>> Okay.
1:16:26Can you um
1:16:30and this is asking
1:16:33different questions about the
1:16:34particulars of the separate ordinances
1:16:37to you attorney. Can you tell us for
1:16:41ordinance 5982 which is the original
1:16:45moratorum by smiling? What is legally
1:16:47risky
1:16:50about it? And with that does the exit
1:16:54clause not help the legal risk if there
1:16:57is any?
1:16:58>> Okay. So when we um did the oil pipeline
1:17:03[snorts]
1:17:04um
1:17:06Representative Vaughn of Carville
1:17:09uh introduce a bill to stop us from
1:17:12regulating it and we worked with him and
1:17:16had him carve out a limitation
1:17:20uh that we could pursue. And what he
1:17:24said was that you can have a moratorum
1:17:28as long as it is reasonable in time and
1:17:32it's not a de facto prohibition against
1:17:35infra industrial infrastructure being uh
1:17:38implemented in a municipality.
1:17:42Otherwise, you're limited and also when
1:17:45you do your regulation, you're limited
1:17:48to land use, sighting,
1:17:51u rightway protection,
1:17:54uh things of that nature. You can also
1:17:57uh enforce
1:18:00natural resources provided they are
1:18:03approved by TDAC and all of the
1:18:05regulatory a you don't have the
1:18:07authority to stop it but you have the
1:18:09authority to implement it once those
1:18:11permits are issued and so there's a
1:18:14limited basis and that's what the
1:18:16ordinance that I did tried to stay
1:18:18intact with that.
1:18:20>> Okay. So,
1:18:23>> so the legal risk you ask about
1:18:26>> is there is a specific provision that it
1:18:29has to be reasonable in time.
1:18:31>> Do they give who says reasonable? The
1:18:33judge
1:18:34>> everything.
1:18:34>> Yes. The judge say decides what's
1:18:37reasonable
1:18:37>> and so you know that's when you have
1:18:40industry pushing back and you have us
1:18:43pushing back. Uh,
1:18:45>> in your opinion, do you think that
1:18:48reasonable reasonability gets helped by
1:18:52the exit clause or that's still up to
1:18:55judge's determination when we cross? If
1:18:57we have to cross there,
1:18:58>> you still have to evaluate the
1:19:01reasonleness of you using the exit
1:19:03clause and it's all going to be an
1:19:06inquir whether that's a pretext or a
1:19:08pretense to validate the ordinance. So
1:19:12my opinion is that you use a moratorum
1:19:16will be generally deemed to be per se if
1:19:20you are legitimately pursuing a
1:19:23legislative action that you can pursue.
1:19:26One of the things about the the
1:19:29moratorum is that it requires you to do
1:19:33things that you don't have the authority
1:19:35to do and you're going to study things
1:19:36that you don't have the authority to do
1:19:38which will lengthen the time that you
1:19:41legitimately should and I understand we
1:19:43disagree on that but that's that's
1:19:45>> but this is what the legal things may
1:19:47>> that's what you would be fighting about
1:19:48in court
1:19:49>> but could be okay
1:19:51>> description
1:19:52>> um
1:19:53>> okay
1:19:53>> there may be a
1:19:55>> thank you Um, next question. Outside of
1:19:59the original uh ordinance 5982, the
1:20:02other four are community benefits
1:20:05language [snorts] included in these and
1:20:09I guess this goes to the makers sponsor.
1:20:11>> Two of the other three are
1:20:13>> okay. Which which ones has
1:20:15>> Warrens have community benefit language
1:20:18in
1:20:18>> SPOSA and Warren?
1:20:20>> Yeah, Logan's does not. Logan
1:20:22specifically
1:20:23is stewed going down that road because
1:20:26she thought it was outside our purview.
1:20:28>> Mine does too.
1:20:30>> Okay.
1:20:30>> Yours has it in the moratorum has you
1:20:33studying it. It doesn't have you
1:20:34implemented.
1:20:35>> So I anticipate you saying it was
1:20:36illegal.
1:20:37>> Okay.
1:20:39>> All right.
1:20:39>> And if you want me to give you the basis
1:20:41upon which we have no authority, I'll be
1:20:43glad to do that.
1:20:44>> Nah, not not right now. Not right now.
1:20:46turn
1:20:50messing around.
1:20:53>> I said that you intentionally avoided
1:20:56putting community benefit provisions in
1:20:59your ordinance that you were pure zoning
1:21:02ordinance.
1:21:07>> Yes.
1:21:11>> All right. Turn away. Um I'm still in
1:21:13the queue. So, for I know for these
1:21:15zoning and permit regulations, um this
1:21:18is a question possible.
1:21:21Um not trying to get any trouble here,
1:21:23but if we're doing zoning and permit
1:21:25regulations and if we are considering
1:21:28making data center special use, cuz
1:21:30that's what that would be.
1:21:33I know that we cannot grandfather in
1:21:39places, companies, entities that are
1:21:41already present. ungrandfather.
1:21:44>> We ungrandfather.
1:21:46>> Yeah. We can't change their vested
1:21:48rights. That's right. That's what you're
1:21:50saying.
1:21:50>> Um yeah,
1:21:51>> I hate that term uh also, but I couldn't
1:21:54think of another term, but I hate it. Um
1:21:57so we can't ungrandfather them in
1:22:00it applies to expansions but not
1:22:02current. Is there something that can go
1:22:05in special use permits that are
1:22:08timebased renewals of zoning or permits
1:22:12within special use? Has that been done
1:22:14before? Is there a precedence on it?
1:22:16>> Let me let me give you the overview. Uh
1:22:19I mean this is a land use thing. So
1:22:22essentially for your questions
1:22:24essentially people have zoning and they
1:22:26have the right to be industrial zone.
1:22:30Mhm.
1:22:31>> What we have done is overlay on that a
1:22:35process by which we will allow their
1:22:38sites to go in those zones. Okay. We
1:22:41cannot prohibit them without interfering
1:22:44with their property rights.
1:22:47>> True.
1:22:48>> Okay. So what happens this has been done
1:22:50and it's being done in
1:22:53Carville Germtown all throughout the
1:22:56jurisdiction that you can attach
1:22:59legitimate
1:23:00conditions and restrictions on the use
1:23:03but you cannot prohibit the use. So
1:23:06that's why we put land you know uh site
1:23:09plan review and conditional review
1:23:11permits. Now what the conditional review
1:23:14permits addresses is where you bring
1:23:17these obnoxious uses like wind turbine I
1:23:20mean gas turbines you have to have
1:23:22actual permit where we can be
1:23:25discretionary the other you you can't be
1:23:27discretionary. So, so you're asking, can
1:23:30we put time limits? No.
1:23:33>> Timebased renewals?
1:23:35>> No, we can't.
1:23:36>> Can't do like every two years you have
1:23:37to renew your permit. No ma'am.
1:23:39>> What about um
1:23:41>> continuous operation? Like if they stop
1:23:44for a certain amount of time.
1:23:46Is there something that oh you stopped
1:23:49for 30 days, 60 days, 90 days, now you
1:23:52have to regrow through this process that
1:23:54we put in and you're ungrantfather
1:23:56status doesn't help you.
1:23:58>> You end up you end up affecting property
1:24:00rights when you start putting time
1:24:02limits on their right to use the
1:24:03property. What you do is you put
1:24:06reasonable restrictions and conditions
1:24:08on their use and they last in perpetuity
1:24:12until they are gone. And that one
1:24:14additional thing that we
1:24:16>> consider is gone
1:24:18>> until they just I mean as as she pointed
1:24:21out the technology changes and they may
1:24:24go hell we don't need this crap anymore
1:24:26we just going to leave you know so what
1:24:28you put in as a condition is that you
1:24:31have to have a sessation or reclamation
1:24:34plan where they have they have an
1:24:36obligation to take it out once they
1:24:38don't want it. And that secession plan
1:24:40would apply to everyone, not just those
1:24:42who are after the time period of when
1:24:44the zoning came in place.
1:24:46>> That's correct. Once you get a per once
1:24:48you go through our process, your special
1:24:51use permit is going to require you to
1:24:53agree that you will remove these prop
1:24:57these this equipment once it's obsolete
1:25:00or you don't want to
1:25:04have in a lot of questions.
1:25:06>> Okay,
1:25:06>> that's one question. Can I yield my time
1:25:08for his one question? And I got one last
1:25:10>> It's in the same D just on that same
1:25:12thing about about is it is it what about
1:25:15transfer of beneficial ownership?
1:25:19>> It's like we treat hotels or assign
1:25:22where they're where they're basically
1:25:23non-conforming. They come grandfathered
1:25:25in or whatever. If I transfer my
1:25:26ownership from the hotel, I still have
1:25:27to come back and get preapproved, right?
1:25:29That's
1:25:30>> I mean this this is going to run with
1:25:32the land and it's going to bind anybody
1:25:34that gets it.
1:25:42Uh, last question, chair. Any of these
1:25:44five ordinances or resolutions, can the
1:25:47state preempt or override any of these?
1:25:51>> Um,
1:25:54>> well, I think they're going to have a
1:25:57harder time preempting the zoning
1:26:00that's been specifically permitted. uh
1:26:04is specifically permitted for every
1:26:06jurisdiction in the state of Tennessee.
1:26:08And so where you
1:26:09>> And which one is that? 598
1:26:12>> six 87.
1:26:13>> Yes.
1:26:14>> The one you you did?
1:26:15>> Yeah.
1:26:16>> That's the only one that probably could
1:26:17withstand
1:26:19>> um
1:26:20>> is it because it doesn't mention a
1:26:22moratorum or because it just
1:26:23specifically does zoning for special use
1:26:25>> spec in and Logan's too they
1:26:27specifically deal with with zoning only.
1:26:30Yeah, we've got a lot of other stuff
1:26:32>> which is an inherent inherent it's
1:26:35almost an inherent right to our police
1:26:37power. So it's been in time immemorial
1:26:40since 1923 and I doubt that any
1:26:42jurisdiction in Tennessee is going to
1:26:44come going to allow them to take it away
1:26:46from
1:26:46>> the expansion part is okay.
1:26:49>> Oh no question for now chair. Thank you.
1:26:53>> All right we Oh,
1:26:55>> I hadn't gotten it for you yet but I
1:26:56assume it'll be 5988.
1:27:01All right. So, we've got um an hour and
1:27:05three minutes left. We've got one, two,
1:27:07three, four, five council members in the
1:27:09queue.
1:27:11I'm loving it. We're legislating today.
1:27:14Councilwoman Cooper Sutton.
1:27:17>> Thank you. Thank you, chair. My main and
1:27:20my biggest concern is zoning, and I want
1:27:22to know how quick can we how fast
1:27:25because this is very critical. Can we
1:27:27get these out of the neighborhoods of
1:27:3038109,
1:27:3238113,
1:27:3338127,
1:27:3538107, and 38109.
1:27:38I know zoning is where we have our
1:27:40legislation power. I I mean it's just so
1:27:44much with these numbers that are going
1:27:46on, but I want to focus on how are we
1:27:49going to maneuver and get these out of
1:27:51our black predominantly black high
1:27:55industrial
1:27:57out of these black communities and near
1:27:58our from our schools? How fast, how soon
1:28:02can we start working on this part?
1:28:05>> Um unfortunately that's over our
1:28:09purview.
1:28:10uh unless you want to use condemnation
1:28:13and buy these facilities back
1:28:16which would be beyond the financial
1:28:20capacity of the state of Tennessee quite
1:28:22frankly.
1:28:26>> So we're just in the zoning part we're
1:28:29just going to
1:28:30>> the whole thing about the mortorium is
1:28:31to prevent this from happening again.
1:28:34It's perspective not retroactive. Okay.
1:28:36Okay. I I understand that, but they need
1:28:39to be out of our communities.
1:28:42>> That's a discussion beyond my pay grade.
1:28:45>> Okay.
1:28:47>> Well, as long as we can get this done
1:28:49quickly with the permitting part, that's
1:28:51what we have control over, right? Okay.
1:28:54And so we we can pause the permitting
1:28:56part.
1:28:59>> You mean
1:29:00>> I mean we can we can we can regulate we
1:29:03can have eyes on the permitting part of
1:29:04it.
1:29:05>> Absolutely. It's got to come back
1:29:06through you with a whole book of
1:29:11information,
1:29:11>> but it'll still be in these industrial
1:29:14places. Is that what you're saying?
1:29:16>> Well, we're looking at that now. That's
1:29:18part of the process. You're going to
1:29:20have that all evaluated when you have a
1:29:22final ordinance.
1:29:23>> That's what we're doing here together.
1:29:26>> We're going to go into all of that.
1:29:28Trust me.
1:29:29Hey,
1:29:33I'm trying to find the source of that
1:29:35annoying sound. Sorry. It's first time
1:29:37that's ever happened. All right. Council
1:29:40Councilwoman White.
1:29:47>> So, I wanted to find out. So, so I think
1:29:50we're two things. one and I'll look at
1:29:54the camera when I say this and I hope
1:29:55that you all play it because even some
1:29:59of my colleagues on this body has made
1:30:01it as if we have delayed or attempted to
1:30:04delay a moratorum and I hope that after
1:30:06this working session that people realize
1:30:09that we have more in common than we did
1:30:11differences and had that moratorum gone
1:30:14forward on Tuesday it likely would have
1:30:17failed simply because we didn't take the
1:30:19time and do what we're doing right Now,
1:30:22but back to this. My question is,
1:30:26if we take the one we have from Allen,
1:30:30which looks like it encompasses I've
1:30:32looked through all of these. It looks
1:30:35like it encompasses pretty much
1:30:36Councilwoman Logan's,
1:30:40Councilman Warren, and Councilman
1:30:42Spinosa's attempted to just go ahead and
1:30:44directly regulate a lot of other things.
1:30:48If we do the pause right now, my
1:30:51question is, and I don't know if this is
1:30:54a Ragsdale question or an attorney Wade
1:30:56question, the particular permits that
1:30:59are in the queue right now for the
1:31:01expansion in those things,
1:31:05and it's kind of what I was asking
1:31:06earlier, but I don't know what stage
1:31:08those are in.
1:31:12Is there a way to pause all extensions,
1:31:16expansions, or anything until we're able
1:31:19to get the actual regulations in place?
1:31:22I understand we can pause any that come
1:31:24in, but I'm talking about the ones that
1:31:26are now pending but have not been
1:31:28approved.
1:31:31No, if they're in permit process, if
1:31:33they've already been submitted, then
1:31:35these regulations would not and Allan
1:31:37can confirm that. that if they're
1:31:40already in process and this would not
1:31:42regulate them.
1:31:47>> Yeah. The um you know there there's a
1:31:50there's a lot of Supreme Court Tennessee
1:31:53Supreme Court precedent about once you
1:31:55make substantial investment in a
1:31:57property then the courts are not going
1:32:01to let you stop them. So I think the the
1:32:04premise that we've all been operating on
1:32:06is whatever we got on the table now is
1:32:09going to be perspective as to any new
1:32:11facilities. That's the safe assumption
1:32:14that I think you can if you want to go
1:32:16to war, we can go to war. Okay. I mean
1:32:19that's kind of where it will
1:32:21>> be wasting taxpayers dollars.
1:32:23>> We don't have any money.
1:32:25>> Good. Yeah. Thank you. Thank you,
1:32:27Council. You get Council White.
1:32:28>> I just
1:32:30>> I just had one more. I do that too.
1:32:32Council Coop.
1:32:33>> And so for the for the going forward
1:32:36what we have here,
1:32:40>> would we need to do a separate
1:32:42resolution for
1:32:46the pause in like how would it need to
1:32:48work in terms of the the necessary pause
1:32:51that needs to happen? Will we be able to
1:32:55amend?
1:32:56>> Yes. So, so
1:32:58>> okay let me let me say there's two
1:33:00there's two ways there's two ways okay
1:33:02we've done resolutions I mean we've done
1:33:06mortorium by resolution when it's tied
1:33:09to a pending matter that's going through
1:33:12the process you could amend 58 5987
1:33:18to add uh that there would be a
1:33:20moratorum until this one is effective
1:33:23that's what you could do you could amend
1:33:25it I could change
1:33:28that could could happen or you could
1:33:30have a standalone ordinance if you want
1:33:32to go ordinance, but that would that
1:33:34would be defeating the purpose because
1:33:36it would take longer for that to be
1:33:38effective before the actual ordinance
1:33:40was adopted. So, I mean, one or two
1:33:43things, a resolution or amending 5987.
1:33:49Okay. So, we could amend the 59821
1:33:54to include it
1:33:57for the Is that what you were saying?
1:33:59>> You're talking about
1:34:01>> So, let's just say the his the new one
1:34:03>> and then let's just toss the numbers
1:34:05out. I don't know what that sound is.
1:34:07>> You would amend that one.
1:34:08>> Okay. 59. I didn't have 598.
1:34:10>> 5982 is the moratorum.
1:34:12>> I didn't know we had a number.
1:34:13>> 18 month
1:34:155987.
1:34:20All right. Councilwoman
1:34:22Logan
1:34:28>> on the 5987
1:34:30where it talked about and this is the
1:34:32question and I did talk to you about the
1:34:33industrial and I want since you're here
1:34:35I want to ask you you know the spot
1:34:37where the gas station it want to come in
1:34:39district one that is is it was
1:34:41industrial at um Frasier Raleigh and Old
1:34:46Allen and it said I and I was like why
1:34:48is this I right here in this in this
1:34:51residential area and since this process
1:34:54has started there are number of those in
1:34:57the city. So if we go blanket industrial
1:35:02will that cover I mean how is that going
1:35:06to fair?
1:35:07>> You're not you're not going blanket
1:35:09industrial.
1:35:09>> Okay.
1:35:10>> You have two categories of industrial
1:35:12now. Light and heavy. Because the first
1:35:17you're going to go you're going to go
1:35:20primarily heavy for large data center
1:35:23hypers scale because they are massive
1:35:26>> right
1:35:27>> uh the other ones if you have under 10
1:35:29that may be a school that may be leoner
1:35:32that may be whatever
1:35:34>> medical center
1:35:35>> yeah I mean they don't have
1:35:38strong electrical needs they don't
1:35:40generate the same noxious things so we
1:35:43We we're just talking generally now
1:35:46because we're going to do a deep dive
1:35:48into those and and DPD has given us the
1:35:52maps. They're about 12 to 15 large
1:35:56industrial areas that we need to look
1:35:58at.
1:35:59>> And then you can also talk about how you
1:36:01do buffering and setbacks and things of
1:36:03that nature to protect residential
1:36:05neighborhoods. But as I told you right,
1:36:07I will get with you and we will be
1:36:09involved in that process actively and
1:36:12that's a part of 5987 because you have
1:36:14to have an industrial zone that they are
1:36:18allowed to go in and then after they're
1:36:20allowed to go there, you do all of the
1:36:23>> the other stuff,
1:36:23>> the review.
1:36:24>> Okay. All right. Thank you.
1:36:26>> So, we'll talk about that Monday,
1:36:29October 19th.
1:36:31>> Yeah. I'm looking at you, man.
1:36:34>> All right. Uh, Councilman Smiley.
1:36:37Councilman Smiley,
1:36:42>> I a ask you that many questions. Allan,
1:36:44you ain't got to make no notes.
1:36:49>> I ain't gonna ask you that many
1:36:50questions.
1:36:52>> Um,
1:36:53all right. Just just a couple questions
1:36:55for me. Um,
1:36:59if we would, if I would, you know, look
1:37:01at 5982, the temporary moratorum
1:37:04ordinance, and I say I scratch out
1:37:06everything that you say is prohibitive
1:37:09or or
1:37:11have some question questionable
1:37:12legality. I leave here's the pause,
1:37:16here's the exit framework, and there's
1:37:18there are some ordinances that are
1:37:19already in the pipeline. I think one of
1:37:22the things that we're leaving out of
1:37:24this is is the community has said two
1:37:27things consistently. One thing that the
1:37:30community has said consistently is what
1:37:32about the new data centers that are
1:37:33coming? Pause those. I don't think
1:37:36anyone in the community is going to push
1:37:38back and I don't think we legally could
1:37:40push back against those um data centers
1:37:43that are legally vested. So I think
1:37:45there's an opportunity here for us to
1:37:48give
1:37:50give uh
1:37:53respect and validity to the concerns of
1:37:55the community but also recognizing our
1:37:58job as a legislative body to implement
1:38:02laws governing those entities that are
1:38:04here right now. I think councilwoman
1:38:06Logan's proposal goes further um with
1:38:10respect to section four of the moratorum
1:38:11which is almost identical to
1:38:13councilwoman Logan's proposal
1:38:15as it relates to here's the information
1:38:18we want the division of planning
1:38:19development to do what what I'm the the
1:38:22question here is is it possible if I
1:38:24scratch all the other stuff out the
1:38:26study committee all these other things
1:38:27and say here's the pause the exit
1:38:30framework is until the passage of
1:38:33passage and implementation of whether
1:38:36it's your
1:38:38>> 5987.
1:38:40>> Yeah. 5987.
1:38:42>> Sorry. Whatever. 598.
1:38:44>> And then Okay. So that
1:38:46>> hold on. I'm I'm not done. So So you
1:38:47said yes.
1:38:50>> I don't think you can ask questions down
1:38:51there. Uh I would go down there and ask
1:38:53questions.
1:38:54>> DJ Wade, if you'll get that mic close.
1:38:56>> I'm gonna come sit beside you in a
1:38:57minute. Um I'm going to come sit beside
1:38:59you in a minute. So then my next
1:39:00question my next question for you is
1:39:04more so
1:39:05well I guess it's going to be ultimate
1:39:07ultimate question for the body but I'm
1:39:08going to direct it to you because I
1:39:10think it's easier when we have a
1:39:12conversation. Um my next question for
1:39:15you is when we when we look at you know
1:39:19I won't say it that way I will say it
1:39:21this way. Okay so we know the path we
1:39:25just talked about is feasible. scratch
1:39:26everything out and say this is effective
1:39:28until the passage of 5987. But is there
1:39:31is there
1:39:35anything that you anticipate because you
1:39:38know this body listens listens to you as
1:39:40almost as abs as it is absolute
1:39:42>> oh lord
1:39:43>> we do we do I've been on this body seven
1:39:46years what I'm trying to figure out is
1:39:48is there a way that we can say okay
1:39:50we're implementing laws now that govern
1:39:52those entities that have uh vested
1:39:55rights but is there a way if the
1:39:57moratorum goes forward that we and um
1:40:01have the temporary pause specifically
1:40:03applies to those entities that are not
1:40:05vested because it I'm going tell you
1:40:07what my
1:40:09>> in the so not vested
1:40:12>> really hey Mike please Allan Allen
1:40:14microphone please yes
1:40:17>> would do pending 5987 they would not be
1:40:21allowed to do anything until 5987
1:40:23>> so I got that I got that there's two
1:40:25questions I'm asking so we're on the
1:40:26same page when it comes to what happens
1:40:28if I amen the moratorum until the patch
1:40:30of 597. My my question specifically is
1:40:34the other concern of the community which
1:40:36is what about um the new data centers
1:40:40that have do not have vest rights coming
1:40:42to the community. I think what I've been
1:40:44hearing consistently because I've done
1:40:46countless meetings about this. What I've
1:40:48been hearing consistently is what about
1:40:50the other data centers? I think
1:40:53>> what the community is saying is the new
1:40:55data centers are concerning for them.
1:40:58How about we we pause when it comes to
1:41:00the new data centers, do some more
1:41:03research to determine how we feel about
1:41:05it. And I, you know, even when I have a
1:41:08difference of opinion with the members
1:41:10of this body, I'm able to have a very
1:41:11cordial conversation with them. I think
1:41:14there has to be a way for us to bring
1:41:17the experts in the room. Respectfully,
1:41:20no one on this body is a scientist.
1:41:23Respectfully, no one on this body is an
1:41:26engineer by trade.
1:41:28We we have a skill set. We are people
1:41:32that are professional and we have a
1:41:35general usually we have a general
1:41:36understanding of what the community is
1:41:38asking us to do. Those of us who have
1:41:40been engaged that way. But I I just
1:41:43don't I just don't believe that moving
1:41:46ahead when we talk about uh the
1:41:48temporary moratorum
1:41:51that we should just say hey we're going
1:41:52to pass these laws and these laws are
1:41:54sufficient to address the new the new
1:41:57data centers that are coming. I just
1:41:58think we have to we have to find a way
1:42:00to pass laws to govern the ones that are
1:42:02here but also slow down when they talk
1:42:04about the new data centers that are
1:42:06coming in. Is there a way to do that?
1:42:07>> Okay. So let's talk about
1:42:09>> we already got the one. Let's talk about
1:42:10the category you just mentioned. Okay.
1:42:12>> So these are people
1:42:13>> who have not applied to come.
1:42:17>> Yes.
1:42:17>> Okay. And and so beyond
1:42:21regulating
1:42:23what happens when they apply,
1:42:26what kind of factors do you want us to
1:42:30look at beyond that in terms of
1:42:33>> I mean
1:42:34>> I'm ready.
1:42:35>> Electric.
1:42:35>> We almost there. We almost there. We
1:42:37almost there. I'm just saying what other
1:42:38thing you but that's a whole separate
1:42:41moratorum to me.
1:42:42>> Uhuh. The language is there cuz
1:42:44>> but what are we going to do? We going to
1:42:45study something that's not within our
1:42:47purview.
1:42:48>> No, it is within our purview. Attorney
1:42:49Wade.
1:42:50>> So we talk about what's what's in and in
1:42:53and not in our purview. But it is within
1:42:55our purview. We can
1:42:56>> All right. Real quick point of
1:42:57clarification for everybody. Councilman.
1:43:00Hey, if you don't mind yet.
1:43:01>> No, I want talk to you. I want
1:43:02>> right No, but I'm asking you to explain
1:43:03just a little bit to the body because I
1:43:05think people are trying to understand.
1:43:06>> Oh, okay. Okay. Me and All in our own
1:43:07little world.
1:43:08>> I apologize. Got [laughter] it. We're in
1:43:10our own little world. All right.
1:43:12>> So, the first thing that attorney Wade
1:43:15and I discussed is what happens if I
1:43:19amend the or anybody a me like um this
1:43:24is not my ordinance. This is the
1:43:25ordinance I thought the people asked me
1:43:26to do. Um and so um the first thing is
1:43:31what happens if I amend and take out any
1:43:33um language that potentially be uh
1:43:36wouldn't pass what we believe to be the
1:43:38legal scrutiny legal must we remove that
1:43:40language and then if you if you read the
1:43:42moratorum and I really hope you read it
1:43:44the moratorum there at the very end of
1:43:46it is something says duration then is
1:43:48there something that says exit framework
1:43:50and then part of the exit framework we
1:43:53we uh remove everything except for one
1:43:56provision ision that says this moratorum
1:43:59will be in effect until the passage of
1:44:01598
1:44:03>> 7. Attorney Wade said he would agree
1:44:06with that. That's where we are now.
1:44:08We're talking about something different
1:44:10that where we are now is okay trying to
1:44:13find a way for this body to do our job
1:44:16which is pass laws that governs those
1:44:18entities that are here and currently
1:44:21operate in the community. I
1:44:23wholeheartedly believe that we need to
1:44:26do that.
1:44:26>> Thank you. That just clicked with
1:44:28attorney way. So the tracking I thought
1:44:30okay.
1:44:31>> So I wholeheartedly believe that is the
1:44:33job of this body.
1:44:34>> Yeah.
1:44:35>> And I hate it took us this long cuz
1:44:37respectfully we've had a very long time
1:44:40to to to do this.
1:44:42>> Like many of us have been doing work,
1:44:44but we all should have been doing this
1:44:46work too.
1:44:47>> I think
1:44:47>> that's one thing. And then I'm then back
1:44:49to the last part. Here's the la here.
1:44:51Here's the last part. Here's the last
1:44:53part. Here's the last part. The last
1:44:55part that that I'm trying to figure out
1:44:57if there's a way to do it is we talked
1:45:00about those entities that have vested
1:45:02rights, those entities currently offer.
1:45:03We need to do that. But what about
1:45:06slowing down the other entities and you
1:45:09and and the the language you use is it
1:45:13must be reasonable in time and uh what
1:45:17was the other part of it? reasonable
1:45:18time and
1:45:20>> and not a not a prosay barrier to
1:45:23>> and not a prosay barrier. So if we can I
1:45:26think there's language that we can
1:45:28fashion that can do just that and and
1:45:30it's not and it's it's limited and it's
1:45:32reasonable in time because you said we
1:45:35must be doing work and then your next
1:45:37question is during that time what are we
1:45:40studying? We study whatever is legally
1:45:43permissible under the law. We have when
1:45:45we talk about land use, we can study
1:45:47this the particular areas in which they
1:45:49go. There is
1:45:51>> there's a community there's a community
1:45:53in Northern Virginia that has 200 data
1:45:56centers.
1:45:56>> Lowden County.
1:45:57>> Yeah. Lowden County.
1:45:58>> See you. I like people who read there's
1:46:00there's a community in Northern Virginia
1:46:03that has 200 data centers. And if we
1:46:05talk about what we haven't done, they've
1:46:07done it all. But in a when when they
1:46:10start getting hypers scale data centers
1:46:12in their community, guess what that
1:46:13community did? That community put a
1:46:15temporary pause in to figure out so they
1:46:18can bring the experts in the room. I
1:46:20think we have to pass laws to deal with
1:46:24the vested the entities that have vested
1:46:26rights. But we also have to slow it down
1:46:28when it comes to the newer entities so
1:46:30we can learn more about this industry. I
1:46:32think that's what we should be doing.
1:46:34And I don't know I listen I'm just one
1:46:36lawyer reading the law doing the
1:46:39research research with help of staff
1:46:41trying to figure out a way for us to get
1:46:43this done. I think we can answer Can I
1:46:45answer your question?
1:46:46>> Go ahead. Attorney councilman.
1:46:48>> I mean I didn't I didn't ignore your
1:46:51ordinance. Trust me. And um and what I
1:46:55tried to do is build in
1:46:58criteria
1:47:00in the review process that addresses all
1:47:03of the obnoxious things that you were
1:47:06trying [clears throat] to pause to
1:47:07study. Okay? Which means that we have
1:47:10these industries come forward and tell
1:47:12us what's the what's your air quality
1:47:14study going to be? What's your noise
1:47:16mitigation going to be? you know, you
1:47:18can't bring in external power sources
1:47:22unless we agree. So, we we're gonna
1:47:25they're gonna slow down. They gonna have
1:47:27to go through a laborious process that's
1:47:29going to address all of that. And, you
1:47:32know, to go back to Lowden County, V
1:47:35Virginia's general assembly or
1:47:38legislative body, they had a legislative
1:47:41study committee. They did reports on
1:47:44land, air quality, land use, water use,
1:47:47electric use, the whole nine yards. I
1:47:49got the I got all that here. But but I'm
1:47:52just telling you they're in a different
1:47:55paradigm than us.
1:47:57>> And since we talk about we're going to
1:47:59say that um Northern Virginia is
1:48:01different than us. So we we spent a lot
1:48:04of time talking about Tennessee
1:48:05reasonleness. There's been multiple
1:48:07communities in this state that pass
1:48:11moratorums and there there has not been
1:48:15any um challenges to the extent that
1:48:18we're talking about as it relates to
1:48:20their moratorums. I'm trying to figure
1:48:22out we the language moratorum concerns
1:48:25people because they they talk about us
1:48:27being sued.
1:48:29We get sued just by sitting in his
1:48:30bodies. I think myself, Jerry Green, and
1:48:33whoever the chair of the council was at
1:48:34the time, we've all been sued. Just
1:48:36because you sue doesn't mean it's what
1:48:39we're the actions of this body.
1:48:40>> Let me let me address your concern. I
1:48:42mean, I think those moratorums went into
1:48:45effect before March of 2026.
1:48:49>> Not
1:48:52McManville passed one. Nashville passed
1:48:55one. These these ordinances went in
1:48:58recently. That mean these moratorums?
1:49:00>> Yeah, they have they have data centers
1:49:02pending there. Uh but I I I mean since
1:49:06they passed the law talking about you
1:49:09can't increase the
1:49:12>> utility burden. Uh put it in your
1:49:15>> I'm trying to see if it's if in terms of
1:49:16the moratorums that were passed. I'm
1:49:18almost I believe that the moratorums
1:49:20came into place after that law was
1:49:22passed.
1:49:24So I attorney way we can have this
1:49:26conversation offline because I feel like
1:49:28we're we're having a conversation
1:49:30theoretical.
1:49:31>> That's I mean that's a a thing you want
1:49:34to pursue and we can talk about that but
1:49:36I think we don't need to confuse the
1:49:38two.
1:49:39>> I don't I don't want to confuse the two.
1:49:40So
1:49:41>> it was May 2026.
1:49:43>> Yeah. Some of the moratorums came in
1:49:44after that.
1:49:46>> I don't know anything about it. I hadn't
1:49:47studied.
1:49:48>> Okay. So So it ma it matters. It's not
1:49:51hey whatever it matters because when we
1:49:54when we Councilwoman White said and you
1:49:58know I give her credit when credit is
1:49:59due. Councilwoman White said that we
1:50:02have to take the time to make sure we
1:50:04get this right. If we're going to do
1:50:06working sessions, I don't think we
1:50:08should be so flippant in the way that we
1:50:11navigate this moment in this space.
1:50:15If if it's truly a concern for this body
1:50:17to get it right, we shouldn't just be
1:50:20talking about the laws that govern the
1:50:21vested the those entities that have
1:50:23vested rights. We should also be talking
1:50:25about the when President McGowan was
1:50:28sitting in the seat, President McGawan
1:50:29said we we had at least 10 other
1:50:31entities that came and talked about um
1:50:34coming to Memphis. Dat was coming to
1:50:36Memphis and we know that numbers
1:50:37probably increased by today.
1:50:40But if we are concerned about the water,
1:50:43the air, energy burden, the noise, the
1:50:45traffic, property values uh decreasing,
1:50:49we I think we have to slow it down so
1:50:52that we can do the studies. Like you
1:50:54know, Councilwoman Cooper Sutton
1:50:55mentioned in her comments uh past
1:50:57Tuesday about the fact that she put on
1:50:59her shoes and she said Mr. Redwing saw
1:51:00outside uh dealing with the traffic.
1:51:03Like traffic is a concern. There are
1:51:05studies that we have to do and that's
1:51:07within our purview.
1:51:08I'm just I'm I'm done. Really? I'm done.
1:51:31>> Everything.
1:51:35So, so we're on the same page when it
1:51:38comes to the ability of this body to to
1:51:40to monitor these areas. I guess my plea
1:51:43is not to Attorney Wade. My plea is to
1:51:45this body about the
1:52:00get out of this. The beautiful thing,
1:52:03the people who showed up articulating
1:52:06their concerns, rightfully or
1:52:07wrongfully, but they articulated their
1:52:09concerns. We listen
1:52:14and look, it wasn't just people who live
1:52:17in those areas. It was people from all
1:52:19across our community, from every single
1:52:21zip code, from every single district
1:52:24saying this concerns them. If we're
1:52:26going to get it right, it shouldn't just
1:52:28be we're only concerned with these these
1:52:30data centers here because they're here
1:52:31off they're here and they're operating
1:52:33without respect for our community. We
1:52:35need to be talking about what about the
1:52:37new cons new data centers are coming in.
1:52:42You know, I'm out the queue. I'm going
1:52:43to go sit back in my hole.
1:52:44>> So, thank you, Councilman. Uh let me ask
1:52:48uh Brett this um and attorney Wade. So
1:52:52tomorrow, if a data center wanted to
1:52:54come to Memphis, could they build and
1:52:57start like the way it did last time and
1:52:59just go right next to a neighborhood?
1:53:03>> If we are pursuing 5987 and we have a a
1:53:08moratorum that says it will prevent that
1:53:11until we adopt it. No.
1:53:13>> Okay.
1:53:15>> No.
1:53:15>> Okay. So we're pursuing 5987
1:53:20>> which is that that's right. Hold on. So
1:53:22real quick the question was we still
1:53:24have to vote on it. So 5987 is what pres
1:53:26was what was presented to us. It's going
1:53:28for first reading
1:53:30>> tonight. Right.
1:53:31>> Correct.
1:53:31>> Once first reading the gavl was bang
1:53:33this afternoon. That can't happen again
1:53:37>> if we tie a moratorum until it is
1:53:39adopted to it. No it cannot happen.
1:53:42>> Okay. So and I made a an acclamation So
1:53:46I made an acclamation on my my ordinance
1:53:50that's one of the one that's being held
1:53:51to where there's a moratorum till
1:53:53December 31st 2026. So we would have to
1:53:57add an amendment to 5987.
1:54:01>> Okay. That's all I'm just throwing that
1:54:02out there. All right. Okay. Okay. Um
1:54:05>> everybody's in agreement
1:54:06>> council. Well and that's and thank you.
1:54:08Yeah. That's what we're here to to
1:54:10figure out together. So anyways,
1:54:13>> this is good. you know, and and I would
1:54:15say if you're going to fight a war, you
1:54:18use all the bullets you got.
1:54:21>> Yeah. Well, and I like
1:54:22>> 5987 is a bullet. Okay. And then all
1:54:24these other things and studies and
1:54:26whatever, they are bullet, too.
1:54:28>> Yeah.
1:54:29>> So, I mean, that's that's all.
1:54:31>> Um, and it puts a timeline on us to do
1:54:33our work is what I humbly think. But, am
1:54:36I talking out loud? We have an hour and
1:54:38five minutes left. We've got four
1:54:40council members in the queue. We've got
1:54:42Councilman Warren, Carlile, Councilwoman
1:54:44Walker, then Councilwoman Logan. So,
1:54:46Councilman Warren.
1:54:48>> Thank you, Mr. Chair. So, I just want us
1:54:51to try to remember where we're trying to
1:54:54get to and what we've got. So, what
1:54:57Allan just said, if we're considering
1:54:59legislation,
1:55:01okay, that already has, you know, uh,
1:55:05the ability to pause anything coming
1:55:08through, then we're we're we're
1:55:11protected. Is that correct, Alan?
1:55:13>> Yes.
1:55:14>> Okay. And right now, not only are we
1:55:17considering your legislation, but we've
1:55:20got two others that are in there that
1:55:22are on pause now that we've been looking
1:55:24at that have mortoriiums. Councilman
1:55:26Smileies and Councilman Spinosis. So,
1:55:28we're already protected because we're
1:55:30still considering those legislations. Is
1:55:32that correct?
1:55:33>> That's correct.
1:55:33>> Okay. So, no one can come in and put a
1:55:35data center in while we're considering
1:55:38those things. When we do your
1:55:41legislation, let's say we pass that in
1:55:43two weeks. Okay. Is there anything more
1:55:47that we can do to actually prevent data
1:55:51centers from coming here legitimately?
1:55:54Councilman Smiley was uh acting or
1:55:58thinking or trying to figure out how we
1:56:00could block data centers because that's
1:56:02what this is about. People are scared of
1:56:05AI. They don't want data centers. They
1:56:07don't want the things that come with
1:56:09them. All we can do is regulate where
1:56:13those things go like the noise and other
1:56:16stuff. And we're looking at trying your
1:56:18puts them in heavy industrial zones.
1:56:20Does yours put them away from schools?
1:56:23>> We will. We will look at the zones.
1:56:26>> We will look at the zones and put uh
1:56:28them away from residential, schools,
1:56:31natural resources, historical areas.
1:56:34Make sure that we have enough setbacks
1:56:37and buffers to make
1:56:39>> So we So passing your legislation does
1:56:42that, right? Real quick, real quick,
1:56:43just to clarif.
1:57:02>> So, we do not
1:57:03>> absolute prohibition is the only way you
1:57:05can stop that.
1:57:06>> Okay. And we have no legal authority to
1:57:09do that. Is that correct?
1:57:10>> That is correct.
1:57:11>> Okay. So, what's going on is our
1:57:14community has been fooled into thinking
1:57:16somehow No, no. Hey, JB.
1:57:20>> I didn't say your name.
1:57:22>> You've been paying [singing] all that.
1:57:24>> I I think I think
1:57:25>> we've had a great We've had a great
1:57:27We've had a great
1:57:29>> Let's go.
1:57:30>> Listen, I Hey, council, I'm going let
1:57:31you I'm councilman, but let's keep other
1:57:33council me I mean, come on.
1:57:35>> I said something very nice about
1:57:36>> We got you talking about today. Okay.
1:57:38So, what I was saying,
1:57:39>> all right, we'll talk about this when we
1:57:41when we wrap it up. Come on.
1:57:43>> If I misspoke, Councilman Finley, could
1:57:45you tell me how I misspoke, sir?
1:57:46>> No. Okay. [clears throat]
1:57:48>> Just because he was very
1:57:49>> And I'm counting on you, too.
1:57:51>> All right. Thank you.
1:57:55[snorts]
1:57:56>> Is trying to ban data centers. I'm not
1:57:58trying to ban data centers. I say I
1:58:00think we need to pause and figure it
1:58:02out. I'm not trying to ban anything. I'm
1:58:04not I'm not I'm not an enemy of growth.
1:58:07What I am is I'm hearing people say a
1:58:10certain thing and what I want to
1:58:12accomplish is get the pause so we can
1:58:15figure it out. That's all. But I'm out.
1:58:18>> Thank you.
1:58:20>> All right. Hey, real quick. You're
1:58:22you're you're muted real quick. Hold on.
1:58:23I just want to say this. Councilman
1:58:24Warren, you're I want you to reply to
1:58:27him. I want you to reply to him and just
1:58:28y'all keep it cool. We're going to keep
1:58:29going after this. Okay. Thank you.
1:58:33So, what I was trying to say is part of
1:58:35what you said was our community wants
1:58:38the bandana centers. Okay. I didn't say
1:58:40you said that. I said that's just that's
1:58:43that's what's out there is people don't
1:58:45want them
1:58:46>> and and Okay. So, that was the point I
1:58:48was making and we do not have the
1:58:50ability to do that and they a lot of
1:58:54people seem to think we do. It's not
1:58:56within our purview. So, if we can't do
1:58:59something legally, okay, and we've got
1:59:02people out there trying to get the
1:59:04community to think we can, that's a bad
1:59:07thing.
1:59:07>> Got you. Thank you.
1:59:08>> Okay. Now, I'm still Thank you. But let
1:59:10I'm still going
1:59:12>> questions. Councilman Smiley spoke for
1:59:1420 minutes and I've spoke for three
1:59:16minutes so far. I've been interrupting.
1:59:18>> He also was had direct questions. Thank
1:59:19you. All right. We've got Councilman
1:59:21Carlile.
1:59:22>> Oh, I'm I'm done.
1:59:24>> Okay. Do you have a question regarding
1:59:27legislation?
1:59:29>> But I was talking to our attorney about
1:59:31that. Okay. Go ahead.
1:59:32>> Okay. [clears throat] So, and I I'll
1:59:34bring it back again. If we're unable to
1:59:37ban data centers, what is the quickest
1:59:40way we can regulate data centers? Is
1:59:42that to pass the ordinance that you
1:59:44brought that combined the legal things
1:59:46we can do as a council?
1:59:48Can you use the mic, sir?
1:59:52>> Okay. So I want us to hear that because
1:59:55you know you know we're still in the
1:59:57idea that somehow if we do this
2:00:00moratorum
2:00:02that's going to do something other than
2:00:04this. So we should just do what will get
2:00:07us there more quickly. Thank you Mr.
2:00:09>> Very thank you for explaining that. All
2:00:11right council we've got Councilman
2:00:13Carile then we've got Councilwoman
2:00:14Walker and Logan Carlile.
2:00:16>> Thank you Mr. Chairman. Can we step back
2:00:18to vested rights? Uh because I think
2:00:20that's a key point that I want to
2:00:21understand a little bit more. Like I
2:00:23understand at a layman's level when
2:00:25we're going through zoning applications,
2:00:26like if I'm going to change zoning on
2:00:28the underlying rights, like the actual
2:00:31property rights, right? Like I'm getting
2:00:33those rights vested to me, but if I'm
2:00:34buying land that's already zoned
2:00:36industrial, are we is it still the same
2:00:39vesting rights because I'm going I'm
2:00:41going through the permitting process.
2:00:42Where's the nuance there for me?
2:00:43>> Okay. So, and when does that when does
2:00:45it actually let me
2:00:46>> break it down for you, bro? Yeah. So,
2:00:47what happens
2:00:49If somebody buys property
2:00:53and they start to initiate a data center
2:00:58and there's no process in place for it
2:01:01to be reviewed, then they are allowed to
2:01:05go forward the same way Musk did
2:01:09without review. So if they buy the
2:01:13property when we have a review process
2:01:16in place, they may be industrial, but
2:01:18they don't have they have to go through
2:01:21the review process that we put in place.
2:01:24That's why it's important for us to put
2:01:25the review process now and then have a
2:01:29moratorum until we do that and then they
2:01:31have to go through you before they're
2:01:33allowed to go through.
2:01:34>> So the trigger the trigger in and of
2:01:35itself is the application under the
2:01:37current rights even even other than if
2:01:39it were zoned something else because
2:01:40then they'd have to go through that.
2:01:41Yeah. Yeah.
2:01:42>> All right. So, so this this goes back to
2:01:43the question of like like the the
2:01:45economic environment, right? And the
2:01:47question of like will you apply? I got
2:01:49the question downstairs like would you
2:01:50apply and rush and and I think the
2:01:52question is is it depends like it goes
2:01:55back to like what the administration
2:01:57will do too, right? Like so under Mayor
2:01:59Strickland um things were under review
2:02:02for quite some time.
2:02:05I I just don't know that process nuance
2:02:07enough. And what I'm really getting at
2:02:08is is like who would enter the process
2:02:10other than like who would want to enter
2:02:13a process in which you don't know what
2:02:14the ground rules are, right? Like you're
2:02:17a business and you're going to enter a
2:02:18process in which the rules could change.
2:02:19Now I know they will if they're vested
2:02:21under today's, but like the amount of
2:02:23available real estate in order to do
2:02:25that and the process that would need to
2:02:27go through to vest the rights under the
2:02:28current rules like I guess I'm just
2:02:30trying to process out loud what the
2:02:32probability of that occurring would be
2:02:35and you pretty much know who all those
2:02:37players are. And then my point is is
2:02:38like no one's going to apply once we
2:02:40pass this moratorum or even if there
2:02:41weren't a mortorium because they don't
2:02:43know what the rules of the road are and
2:02:44it could be that they're required to
2:02:46build a gray water facility. It's like
2:02:47that's a 60 million 80 or $150 million
2:02:49hit. I guess my point is in any business
2:02:51you want economic certainty at the end
2:02:53of the road and when that doesn't exist
2:02:54you're not going to go and put your best
2:02:56foot forward and I would just say that
2:02:57I'm not saying that to talk about doing
2:02:59mortorium. I just want that to be a
2:03:00known consideration as you were
2:03:02processing as we go through this. Right?
2:03:05So I I just want to understand that
2:03:06timing. I mean, I think that's that's
2:03:08helpful. Thank you. Thank you, chairman.
2:03:10>> Great question.
2:03:12>> Attorney Wayade, you got an answer for
2:03:13that one. [laughter]
2:03:17>> I mean, it's a it's a wide open country
2:03:21>> and there are a lot of other places they
2:03:22can go. So, you know, that's the way
2:03:24that works.
2:03:25>> All right. Great point, Councilman
2:03:27Carile. I mean, all right, we got
2:03:29Councilwoman Walker,
2:03:35>> Attorney Wade, and anyone who wants to
2:03:37respond. Um, with everything that we're
2:03:40considering today, which is the best
2:03:44path to
2:03:47renewable energy because I know that
2:03:50there are some things that
2:03:51>> Okay, let me let me ask you a question
2:03:53and I thought I mentioned this the other
2:03:56day. Okay. Can you
2:03:57>> one thing um
2:04:00when these
2:04:02data centers
2:04:04if they can't get all of the megawatts
2:04:06that they need from TVA or MLGW,
2:04:10they have the right to bring their own
2:04:14power.
2:04:15And the one thing we can do through the
2:04:19U conditional use permit is deny them if
2:04:25they bring turbines with
2:04:29gas power. You can prefer
2:04:34green energy.
2:04:36So that's how you have the ability to
2:04:38leverage where you are.
2:04:41>> And that is that would be that would fit
2:04:44best in
2:04:46yours or whose or or
2:04:48>> that's in mine
2:04:48>> that can Okay.
2:04:50>> So that's already in 598
2:04:52>> seven
2:04:52>> seven.
2:04:53>> Yes.
2:04:53>> Okay. Because that was what
2:04:55>> you're the gatekeeper on what power they
2:04:57bring. And so you can say look we're
2:05:00going to prohibit gas powered turbines.
2:05:03You can say we we will prefer wind
2:05:07turbines. We'll prefer all of the other
2:05:09green energy things. They also bring uh
2:05:12the batteries. So you can also I mean
2:05:16regulate those as well but you have a
2:05:18say in whether you will allow those to
2:05:20happen otherwise they can bring whatever
2:05:23they want and that's what happened down
2:05:25in Tul.
2:05:26>> Okay. And finally so what I'm thinking
2:05:28in terms of percentages you know um or
2:05:31maybe even on a sliding scale by in so
2:05:34many years you're 35% renewable or
2:05:36starting out you need to be at least 20
2:05:38cent 20% renewable. So, I'm thinking
2:05:42along those lines, but it doesn't
2:05:44necessarily have to be that.
2:05:46>> No, that that's um that's like your
2:05:49authority is to approve or dis
2:05:52disapprove what they put on the table.
2:05:55You encourage them to do the other. It's
2:05:57like we approve MLG&W's
2:06:00contracts. We don't have the authority
2:06:02to tell them what's in it. We just have
2:06:04the authority to say no. Okay? So when
2:06:07you say no, they going to scramble to
2:06:10try to do what you want. That's the
2:06:12leverage that you have and then you can
2:06:14start talking about these scales and
2:06:16other things that you want.
2:06:17>> Okay. Thank you. And one more thing um
2:06:19to the media, can you all do a story on
2:06:22renewable energy for data centers? Um
2:06:26there's a lot of things that you all
2:06:27have not been reporting on as it relates
2:06:30to this and there's tons of information
2:06:34out there. There are many many data
2:06:37centers across the US that are operating
2:06:40using renewable energy, some of them
2:06:43100% as well as internationally. And
2:06:46finally, CL um China has a data center
2:06:49that is completely underwater. Thank
2:06:52you. I yield the floor.
2:06:53>> We've got one more. Thank you,
2:06:54Councilwoman. We got one more council
2:06:56member in the queue, Councilwoman Logan,
2:06:58and then then we'll uh wrap it up.
2:07:01Councilwoman Logan.
2:07:06Thank you. Um I wanted to say um
2:07:11even though the data centers currently
2:07:13are mostly out south, this is really
2:07:17about this process about the entire city
2:07:19because there are other areas in our
2:07:23city that are vulnerable. So, you know,
2:07:26because it started uh in the south part
2:07:29of the city, it caused me as a
2:07:32legislator to look at my district, to
2:07:35look at the people that I I answer to
2:07:37and what's important to them as well,
2:07:39and the same things that are important
2:07:41to those that live in your district, uh,
2:07:44Councilwoman Walker, are important to
2:07:47people that live in my district. And so
2:07:49looking at this holistically, it's not
2:07:52the south or the north or where it's the
2:07:54city of Memphis. This came into our
2:07:56city, went directly into a space that
2:08:00because of the zoning and was able to do
2:08:02this by school, by churches, you know,
2:08:05irregardless of traffic and that impacts
2:08:07all of our areas. It could happen
2:08:09anywhere. And my concern was that and
2:08:13and and I think all of our concern uh of
2:08:16course those that are already impacted
2:08:18are what do we do now? But my concern
2:08:21was how do we protect the rest of the
2:08:22city? And that's why you know in talking
2:08:25to attorney Wade all of us are concerned
2:08:28but some of us have slightly different
2:08:31vantage point. We're all concerned about
2:08:33each other but we want the best for
2:08:35everybody including ourselves because we
2:08:37all live here. And so making certain
2:08:39that we have the protections in place
2:08:41currently to eliminate that or mitigate
2:08:44that from happening anywhere else right
2:08:46now is important to the rest of the
2:08:48city. And then what do while we're
2:08:51saying what do we do what to what's
2:08:53already happened but I don't want to
2:08:55leave the rest of our city vulnerable
2:08:58knowing that that could happen at any
2:08:59place when we have the power to stop it
2:09:02now and then go back to the UDC upgrade
2:09:07and all of those other things. So I
2:09:10would like for my colleagues to
2:09:11understand that as well. That's just as
2:09:13important to safeguard the rest of the
2:09:15city as it is for us for all of us to to
2:09:18determine what do we do to help the mess
2:09:21that we're in in that location. And the
2:09:25part that Pearl was mentioning about the
2:09:27the funds and I think we're all
2:09:29concerned about if they're going to be
2:09:31here, how do we get funds from them
2:09:33that's going to or how do we receive um
2:09:36the the the funds that could come from
2:09:38them to help the cities the communities
2:09:41they're in. and all of the community. So
2:09:44all of this is important to everyone but
2:09:46colleagues please remember that we all
2:09:48have a slightly um different or added uh
2:09:52vantage point as well. So or uh
2:09:55perspective as well. So I just wanted to
2:09:57make sure we as a body know that we are
2:10:00a body and when one speaks they like
2:10:03today at the press conference it said
2:10:04Memphis City Council.
2:10:06>> It didn't say Carlile. It didn't say
2:10:09Logan or Spinosa. It said Memphis City
2:10:11Council is having a press conference.
2:10:13When it when it went viral, it said
2:10:15Memphis City Council. It didn't say, you
2:10:18know, particularly any person. So, we
2:10:20move as a body. We vote as a body. And
2:10:23we have to make certain that we're
2:10:24considering it at these matters as from
2:10:27that vantage point. And our constituents
2:10:29are looking at us to be the solid,
2:10:33professional,
2:10:35Democratic
2:10:36>> um body that we are. and that's what we
2:10:39all ran for and wanted to be elected
2:10:41for. So, I just want to put that there
2:10:44before we even go downstairs or go have
2:10:46another meeting. We have a
2:10:48responsibility.
2:10:49>> Thank you. All right. So, with that,
2:10:52here's the plan. We're going to have
2:10:53another meeting as a body uh hopefully
2:10:56again on Monday, October the 19th.
2:11:00Uh [snorts] the agenda is community
2:11:02environment protections, noise, water,
2:11:03air quality, and neighborhood
2:11:04infrastructure impacts. MLGW, TVA,
2:11:08Health Department, EDGE, and other
2:11:09relevant industry experts. Thursday,
2:11:11October 22nd, community voices, public
2:11:13engagement.
2:11:15Uh, Tuesday, October 27th, community
2:11:17benefits and economic growth, and then
2:11:19address any outstanding items. So, if
2:11:21council members have questions,
2:11:23amendments they want to make, obviously,
2:11:25we'll make them today, but that's the
2:11:27agenda. The times on those are 1 to
2:11:29three. We got this done in two hours and
2:11:3112 minutes. Um, so we will be downstairs
2:11:35to reconvene and come out of recess for
2:11:38the full council meeting at 4 p.m. And
2:11:42Councilwoman Swaren Washington wants to
2:11:44make a comment.
2:11:48>> Madame Chair,
2:11:51thank you. Thank you so much,
2:11:53Councilwoman Logan. That was a great
2:11:55segue into um our reminder before we go
2:11:59downstairs. We have an expectation for
2:12:02our constituents and community members
2:12:04that are coming into the meetings, but
2:12:07we also have a expectation of our
2:12:10council members. And there is a decorum
2:12:12in council members. So, we want to make
2:12:14sure that we're talking one at a time,
2:12:17waiting until we're recognized by the
2:12:19chair, that we're not making personal
2:12:21statements towards each other, and just
2:12:24to continue to work as a unit, as one
2:12:26body so that we can get the business of
2:12:29the city done per your convenience. You
2:12:32have just been provided a reminder of
2:12:35our decorum in council meetings and make
2:12:38sure that we are familiar so that we
2:12:40will be respectful to each other that we
2:12:42will model excellence and continue to
2:12:45have a high standard which is the
2:12:47expectation not only of each other but
2:12:51of what our constituents have for us.
2:12:54>> Thank you. I yield.
2:12:55>> Thank you, Madam Chair, and thank you
2:12:56everybody for being here today. All
2:12:58right. This meeting is adjourned.
2:13:01Attorney wait for a second.