2026-09-22 - City Council

00:18We'll now call this regular meeting of

00:21the Jacksonville City Council to order.

00:22Thank you.

00:23>> I want to welcome everyone who's come

00:24out for the meeting tonight and also

00:26those who be watching on G10 television.

00:28To begin with, we're going to rise for

00:30the uh saying of of the uh pledge of

00:33allegiance followed by the invocation.

00:35Please rise.

00:39I pledge allegiance to the flag of the

00:42United States of America and to the

00:45republic for which it stands, one nation

00:48under God, indivisible, with liberty and

00:51justice for all.

00:54>> Let us pray.

00:56Our most gracious heavenly father, we

00:58thank you for today, Lord. We thank you

01:00for the opportunity to be here as a

01:01community and to gather uh to make

01:04decisions for the people that live here

01:06each and every day. Lord, we ask that

01:09your presence be here tonight from the

01:11the time that we walked in the building

01:12to the time that we leave. Lord, we just

01:14ask that you grace our hearts, our

01:16minds, and our souls with the

01:18opportunity to listen and to hear

01:20others. Lord, Lord, I ask that you

01:23provide wisdom and clarity to our

01:26council members as they think about

01:28these issues as they debate with one

01:29another to make those decisions to help

01:32us all interact better together. Lord,

01:35Lord, I ask for your protection over

01:37each and every child in Jacksonville and

01:40Enso County. Lord, uh we know the

01:42challenges that that our children face

01:44today, Lord. We just ask that you

01:46protect them more than than anything. uh

01:49just so that they can guide their their

01:52daily lives. They can walk in the path

01:53you would have them walk, Lord, and so

01:55that they can experience your grace,

01:58your love, and your mercy each and every

01:59day. Thank you, Lord, for the ability to

02:01be here. Thank you for the voice to uh

02:04to gather together, Lord. And thank you

02:05for the opportunity for our community to

02:07be one city. In your name we pray, Lord.

02:09Amen. Amen. Amen.

02:15All

02:28right, council. You've been provided

02:29with copies of the agenda for tonight's

02:31meeting. And at this time, I'd entertain

02:32a motion to adopt the agenda.

02:34>> So move.

02:35>> Second.

02:38>> Any discussion? Hearing none. All in

02:40favor signify by saying I.

02:42>> I.

02:42>> All opposed. Next, we have our uh public

02:45comment for this evening.

02:48And uh I'm gonna read this

02:51uh as far as the rules on our public

02:54comment. It's now time for the public

02:56comment portion of the agenda. This is a

02:58time that the council has set aside

03:00during each regular meeting to hear

03:02comments from the public.

03:04[clears throat] Uh this is not a

03:05question and answer session, but a time

03:07for you to express your views on city

03:08issues to the council. Each speaker who

03:11signed the public comment signup sheet

03:13may be may come to the podium when I

03:15call your name. And when you get to the

03:17podium, please state your name and

03:19address for the record. You may speak

03:22for up to three minutes. And when the

03:24timer at the podium and also displayed

03:25on the screen turns yellow, that is a

03:28signal that there is 30 seconds of time

03:30remaining and you may wish to begin

03:32wrapping up what you have to say. Um,

03:35and which podium do you want to use

03:36tonight?

03:38This one over here. Okay. So, we'll

03:40start and I ask Jesse Hansley.

03:47>> Jesse Hanley, 115 West Bay Spayshore

03:49Boulevard. Uh, mayor, city council,

03:52thank you for the opportunity to come.

03:54Just want to give some praises for our

03:56city and the rock the block that we did

03:59again this year, the second annual.

04:01Awesome time. We had a lot of people

04:04down in town. We saw a lot of vendors, a

04:07lot of neighbors. It was great. Our

04:10city, the JPD, JFD,

04:14parks and wreck, the there was so many

04:16that were involved and it was hot. It

04:19was hot. They worked all day getting

04:21prepared for this thing. So, it was

04:23great. Just wanted to say great job.

04:26Thanks again. Let's do it again next

04:28year. Thanks again. Y'all have a good

04:30night.

04:34Michael [clears throat] Carter.

04:38>> Thank you, Mayor, Council, City Manager

04:40for letting me speak tonight.

04:43Uh, I want to speak a little bit in the

04:45way we're going to elect city council.

04:47[clears throat]

04:49I think the facts are very clear of what

04:51we've done in the past. We've had

04:53election by at large and then we went to

04:56the ward in a large system and the facts

04:59speak for themselves as far as how those

05:01elections have turned out. But I do have

05:04I know you all have a lot of concerns

05:06what's going to happen and it's going to

05:08be your decision.

05:10Uh

05:12first off in my view you got to

05:14determine how many people should be

05:15sitting up there whether that be four

05:18people, six people, eight people or 100

05:20people. And I use 100 for a reason. Uh

05:25if we feel like we need to have

05:26guarantees of people sitting up there

05:30and you go back to look at the census

05:32based off 100% and you look at saying

05:35okay there's there's there white people

05:37there's black people there's Latinos

05:40there's Pacific Islanders or the Asians

05:42there Native Americans etc.

05:46You know, [clears throat]

05:47I don't think you want to see a 100

05:49people sitting there and I don't think

05:50you'll get a 100 people to sit there and

05:52run to start with and then you start

05:54scaling it back and then you get down to

05:56where somebody's like a.3% of a person.

05:59Well, you can't you got point put a

06:01point person in that seat.

06:04I also have concerns with the military

06:08uh bases. Uh to my knowledge, they don't

06:11pay city taxes. So, we have two types of

06:13city residents. ones that pay taxes and

06:15ones that don't. And then if the

06:17military decide to call this record of

06:19home, then they get to determine by

06:22putting someone in that seat how we

06:24should spend our tax dollars. And I have

06:26nothing against military. I grew up here

06:28and I know a lot of people. But I think

06:30that, you know, if we're going to vote

06:32for council members, then everybody

06:33should be on the same footing.

06:36Um,

06:38so if we're going to I don't think the

06:40city's going to deanex the the military

06:42population because I think you're going

06:43to lose a lot of money if you did that.

06:45So we're going to take the base into

06:46consideration and I think that the base

06:48population if you say the city 72,000 36

06:51on the base and 36 inside the corporate

06:54city. It should be how many ever wards

06:56you decide to have. You divide that and

06:58then they come out equal. So if you had

07:01four wards, you have 9,000 from the

07:03base, 9,000 from the city, and that's

07:05where you got

07:07I think that the if you go with a ward

07:09system and a straight ward system done

07:12at large that that you know, you

07:13determine how many wards you're going to

07:14have and you draw your lines based off

07:17of, you know, say 17 and 24, 17, 24

07:23Western Boulevard, whatever. and you do

07:26it off of those type lines, not based

07:28off of who's a Republican, who's a

07:29Democrat, or what race you are. Um,

07:35so there's different ways of doing it

07:37and I know that it's going to take a lot

07:38of work to get that done and I wish you

07:41all the best. Thank you.

07:42>> Thank you.

07:46>> Melanie Marzette.

07:56Melanie Marzette 403 Alterist Loop.

08:00[clears throat]

08:03Okay. Hello.

08:05I want to take some time out to thank

08:08the following departments. I'd like to

08:11thank the sanitation department for the

08:13hard work they put in this past summer.

08:15It was hot and it was wet a lot of the

08:18days and they did a great job with

08:20collecting, recycling and refuge. So, I

08:22would like to give a shout out to them.

08:24I want to thank thank the parks

08:26department. I know that they are always

08:29short-handed in the summer and it was

08:31also hot and wet. They did a great job

08:33with maintaining the bypass grass,

08:37maintaining the parks and baseball

08:39fields and fixing building things. So,

08:41thank you for that. I want to thank our

08:43custodians.

08:45It's a thankless job, but I want them to

08:47know that every time I walk into a city

08:50building, whether it's city hall, public

08:52safety, or the rec department, they're

08:54doing a great job. And bottom of my

08:57heart, I noticed. So, thank you. I want

08:59to thank the recreation department for

09:02all the summer programs they offered.

09:04Um, I did [clears throat] participate in

09:06the pickle ball block party. It was a

09:08great event. I was able to leave with a

09:10little bag and some pickles. I love

09:12pickles. So, thank you for that. And I'm

09:15also a part of the book club. So, thank

09:17you for continuing to do that with the

09:19movies, Art in the Park, and the

09:20concerts. I want to thank our city

09:23clerk. Um, she's been nothing but

09:25professional and kind, and every time

09:28I've asked for anything um that uh

09:30wanted from the public records, she's

09:33given it to me in a timely manner. So,

09:35thank you for that. I want to thank Ryan

09:37King. I ran into him and his wife and he

09:40took the time to answer some questions

09:41for me and he didn't have to. Um, we

09:45talked about data centers in the flock

09:46cameras because that's a big issue now.

09:48So, I want to thank him for that. And as

09:50always, I always want to shine a light

09:52on our homeless population. I hope that

09:55the city council, mayor, and city

09:57manager is working on some transitional

09:59housing for them and know that they're

10:01still out there and now they've traveled

10:03over to our bus department or bus

10:06transportation. They're out there. Um,

10:09so please look out for them and thank

10:12you,

10:18[cough]

10:19>> Sunonny Winger. Is that right?

10:24Last name Winger.

10:25>> I'm here. I just want to speak. Oh,

10:27>> okay.

10:31Got you.

10:33>> All right.

10:36[clears throat]

10:37>> All right. Council, move on to the

10:39adoption of the minutes and the consent

10:40items. The minutes are from the

10:42September 8th, 2026 workshop meeting and

10:46the five consent items.

10:47>> Move approval of the minutes and consent

10:49items.

10:49>> Second.

10:50>> Have a motion and a second. Is there any

10:52further discussion hearing? None. All in

10:54favor signify by saying I.

10:56>> I.

10:56>> All oppose. We'll go on down to number

10:59six on our agenda for tonight.

11:02And this is a public hearing on

11:04annexation of vault Evan Evanita 3. Uh

11:10this is a lot off of

11:16Richland Vance Highway. Ron, you're

11:17going to present this item.

11:19>> [clears throat]

11:19>> the mayor and council tonight. Actually,

11:21we council is going to act on six

11:23annexation requests that involve three

11:27development sites in the same general

11:30area along Richland's Highway.

11:35there. Uh it's a little more involved

11:38tonight because uh of the number of

11:41different property owners

11:43uh and and so you know the sequence of

11:47the annexation is important uh to ensure

11:50we're complying with the state law. And

11:53so as mayor mentioned first annexation

11:57is uh [clears throat] for a site that's

12:001.04 04 acres that's located at 2749

12:07Richland's high highway. Uh it's the

12:10site of a seven brew coffee shop. Uh

12:16it's uh the land is contiguous to the

12:19current city boundaries. Uh the the

12:22[clears throat] financial analysis shows

12:25a cash value a positive cash flow of

12:28$13,59

12:32over a 5-year period. Uh [clears throat]

12:36the the staff recommends the council

12:38adopt the annex or annexation ordinance

12:41as presented. And

12:43>> to make it clear, the property owner did

12:45come to us want to be annexed. It's not

12:48a city initiated annexation. So sir, I

12:51want to put that out there because

12:53>> uh some folks in the media evidently got

12:55it all wrong. So

12:57>> sir, voluntary annexation requested by

13:00the property owner. [clears throat]

13:04>> Any questions of Mr. Massie on that?

13:07All right.

13:08>> I have none.

13:09>> Yes, ma'am.

13:10>> I have none.

13:11>> Okay. With that, I would recess the

13:13regular meeting, open up the required

13:15public hearing in this matter. Is there

13:16anyone present wishes to speak to this

13:18this particular agenda item

13:22right here? Seeing no one, I will close

13:24the public hearing. Councilor, you've

13:25been asked to consider the annexation

13:26ordinance.

13:33>> I'll make a motion that we approve that

13:35annexation ordinance.

13:38>> Second.

13:39>> I have a motion and a second. Is there

13:40any further discussion?

13:43With that, all those in favor signify by

13:45saying I. I.

13:46>> All opposed. Go to agenda item number

13:49seven. This is another annexation

13:51petition. This Y Sykes and Richards.

13:54This is a 1.56 acre lot. It's located on

13:58Yacht Road across on Yacht Road across

14:01from uh the I guess that's Freedom

14:04Village over there. Mr. Massie, you're

14:06going to present this item.

14:08>> That's correct. Uh on behalf of the

14:11property owners, Jacqu Sykes and Richard

14:14uh trustees, Pursuit Development has

14:17submitted a petition for voluntary

14:19annexation of two tracks of land

14:22totaling 1.56 acres that are contiguous

14:26to the current city limit boundaries.

14:29Property is located, as you indicated,

14:31mayor, across from Yap Road along

14:33Richlands Highway. [snorts] The de this

14:36is one of the four parcels that will

14:40constitute a development that will

14:43contain uh four commercial buildings.

14:47The uh financial analysis shows a

14:50positive cash flow of $755,840

14:56over the 5-year period. And it's again

15:00part of a a development site. And that's

15:04the the cash flow for that development

15:06site.

15:08And the staff recommends that council

15:10adopt the annexation ordinance.

15:13Questions of Mr. Massie?

15:17This time I'll resist the regular

15:18council meeting and open up the required

15:20public hearing is in this matter. Is

15:22there anyone present that wishes to

15:24speak reference to this issue?

15:28Seeing no one close the public hearing.

15:30Council, you've been asked to consider

15:32the annexation ordinance.

15:34>> Mr. Mayor, I move that we um adopt the

15:35annex organization, excuse me,

15:37annexation ordinance as presented.

15:39>> Second.

15:40>> I have a motion and a second. Is there

15:42any further discussion? Hearing none.

15:45All in favor signify by saying I.

15:47>> I.

15:47>> All oppose. It's going to take us down

15:49to agenda item number eight as soon as I

15:51can get to it. It's a long ways down

15:53here.

15:54So on behalf of Potter Harris,

15:57[clears throat]

15:58Potter's

15:59Pursuit Development has submitted a

16:02petition for voluntary annexation of one

16:04track of land totaling.83

16:07acres that is contiguous to the current

16:10city limit boundaries. Property is

16:13located at 2802

16:16Richlands Highway. Again, it's part of

16:19the development site that will contain

16:21the four commercial buildings. Uh, and

16:25it's or businesses rather. And the the

16:28total [clears throat] cash flow over the

16:295 years is 755,840,000.

16:34Staff recommends that the council

16:36approve or adopt the annexation

16:39ordinance as presented.

16:40>> We're going to move to agenda item

16:42number nine. We

16:44>> I think you're reading from number nine

16:46on the agenda. That's correct.

16:47>> Okay. We skipped number eight, so we'll

16:51have to come back to that one.

16:52>> Okay. Yes, sir.

16:53>> All right. Any questions, Mr. Massie,

16:55regarding number nine there?

17:00>> All right. We are required to have a

17:02public hearing on this matter at this

17:03time or recess regular council meeting

17:04and open up the public hearing. Is there

17:06anyone present wish to speak to this

17:07annexation petition?

17:10Seeing no one, close the public hearing.

17:12Council, you're being asked to consider

17:13the annexation.

17:15Mayor sir, I move that the um that we go

17:19forth with the annexation for the

17:21Potter's Acre point 83. Okay, second it.

17:27Okay,

17:27>> any further discussion hearing? None.

17:30All in favor signify by saying I.

17:32>> All let's go back to number eight there,

17:33Mr. Mass.

17:36Sir, [clears throat] agenda item number

17:38eight is on behalf of Heath Roy and

17:42Katherine uh Pursuit Development has

17:45submitted a petition for voluntary

17:47annexation of two tracks of land

17:50totaling 1.12 acres that are contiguous

17:54to the city limit boundaries. Property

17:57is located at 2814

18:00and 2806 [clears throat]

18:02Richlands Highway. Uh this again this

18:05will be part of a development site that

18:08will have four commercial businesses. Uh

18:11the financial analysis shows a c

18:14positive [snorts and clears throat] cash

18:15flow of $755,840

18:19over the four five-year period.

18:24Staff recommends that council adopt the

18:26annexation ordinance as presented.

18:29>> Questions of Mr. Massie on this

18:31annexation request.

18:35Okay. This time I'll recess the regular

18:37meeting, open up the public hearing on

18:38this matter. Anyone wish to speak to

18:40this issue, please raise your hand.

18:44Seeing no one close the public hearing.

18:46Council, you being asked to consider the

18:47annexation ordinance.

18:49>> Make a motion that we approve the

18:51annexation.

18:52>> Second.

18:54>> Any further discussion?

18:56Hearing none. All in favor signify by

18:58saying I.

18:59>> I. All opposed.

19:01Next, we're going to go to item number

19:0310. This is a Shira LLC, 4.85 acres, and

19:08I think this is also contiguous with the

19:10other properties. Is that correct, Mr.

19:11Pass?

19:12>> Yes, sir. That's correct. And it's

19:14[clears throat] again part of the

19:16development that pursuit development

19:18plans to uh build that will that will

19:22include uh four commercial businesses.

19:25The property is located at 2792

19:29and 2780 Richlands [clears throat]

19:32Highway. Again, the financial analysis

19:34shows a positive [snorts] cash flow of

19:37$755,840

19:41uh over the 5-year period. Staff

19:43recommends that council adopt the

19:45annexation ordinance as presented.

19:50>> Any questions for Mr. Massie on this

19:52this item? Thank you. This time I'll

19:55recess recess the regular meeting and

19:58open up the public hearing on this uh

20:00matter. Anyone present wish to speak to

20:02this annexation?

20:04Hear no one close the public hearing.

20:06Council being asked to approve the

20:09annexation.

20:11>> Mayor Phillips, I make a motion that we

20:12approve the annexation as presented.

20:15>> Second.

20:15>> Have a motion and a second. Is there any

20:17further discussion?

20:19Hearing none. All in favor signify by

20:21saying I.

20:22>> I. We're moving on to number 11

20:27and

20:27>> mayor and council.

20:28>> Go ahead, Ron. You you got this one.

20:31[laughter]

20:32On behalf of Verites Retail Properties

20:34[clears throat and cough] Partners, uh

20:37LLC, Timmans Group has submitted a

20:39petition for voluntary annexation of

20:42five tracks of land totaling 3.15 acres

20:47[clears throat]

20:47that uh when annexed as proposed are

20:51contiguous to the city uh current city

20:54limit boundaries. The properties are

20:57located at 2688,

21:002674,

21:012668,

21:0325, 2658 Richlands Highway and 107

21:09uh Bridget Lane. Uh the [clears throat]

21:12the developer proposes to build four

21:14commercial buildings or businesses

21:17[snorts] at this location. The financial

21:20analysis shows a positive cash flow

21:26of $755,000.

21:30I'm sorry, a correction. This is a

21:32positive cash flow of um

21:43$421,172.

21:50Staff recommends the council adopt the

21:53annexation ordinance as proposed.

21:56Council, any questions of Mr. Massie on

21:58this issue?

22:01>> Okay. This time I'll recess the regular

22:03meeting and open up the public hearing

22:05required on this this matter. Anyone

22:07present wishes to speak to this matter,

22:09please indicate by raising your hand.

22:12Seeing no one, I will close the public

22:14hearing. Council being asked to consider

22:16the annexation ordinance.

22:18>> Mr. Mayor, I move that we approve the

22:20annexation ordinance as presented.

22:22>> Second.

22:23>> Okay, I think that that wraps it,

22:26doesn't it, Mr. Massie?

22:27>> On annexations.

22:29>> Just need a vote.

22:30>> All those in favor signify by saying I.

22:32I.

22:33>> All opposed. Okay, we're going to move

22:35on now to something different. Uh number

22:3812 here. This unified development

22:39ordinance UDO text amendment article 4.

22:42This is on temporary use standards and

22:44Mr. King, Ryan King, will be presenting

22:46this item.

22:47>> I'm not sure if I'm going to be able to

22:48be as quick as Mr. Massie was, but I'll

22:51try. Um, good evening, mayor and

22:53council. Um, tonight the first U

22:55planning public hearing item we have

22:57before you is one of two unified

22:59development ordinance text amendments.

23:00The first one being a request that's

23:02come in from PR Jacksonville Limited

23:04Partnership. They're involved with the

23:06Jacksonville Mall and they're requesting

23:08to increase the number of special event

23:10days allowed per year from 14 to 30. And

23:14um this uh was created when the UDO was

23:18adopted in 2014. Prior to that, we

23:19really didn't have any stipulations,

23:21rules, regulations as it relates to

23:23temporary standards and we do now. Um

23:26the mall when they initially submitted

23:28their request um they asked for a little

23:31bit longer period of time and because of

23:33the downzoning bill we worked with them

23:35to kind of uh revise that number down a

23:38little bit because if council chooses to

23:40amend this you can't go back because of

23:41the downzoning bill. Um they were in

23:43agreement with that amendment. So they

23:45revised their application

23:48and uh in conjunction with this uh staff

23:51also recognized that there was some

23:52cleanup that needed to be uh worked on

23:55in article 4 as well. So that has been

23:58incorporated with this amendment. Uh

24:00part of these changes you can see before

24:03you is the the table 441 that um we're

24:07cleaning up. Right now it says no

24:09permits required but we really need to

24:11get a permit for those type items. uh

24:13the C's and D's, we just wanted to get

24:15some clarification. There was items that

24:17contradicted with the text later on. So,

24:19we wanted the the text and the table to

24:21match. That way, if somebody just looked

24:23at the table, they think, hey, we got 30

24:25days, but then they read the text, it

24:26says you only have two. Stricter rule

24:28applies. So, this will eliminate some of

24:29that confusion.

24:32Um, and we identified, like I said, the

24:3514 to 30 days, and then the duration

24:38calculates uh the setup and removal of

24:41equipment, attractions, etc.

24:43um and days between operational days

24:45just to make sure that it's clear what

24:47the intent is.

24:50Items for city council to consider when

24:52amending the unified development

24:53ordinance. Um so some facts that we've

24:56we've identified is uh this complies

24:59with council's goal number four which is

25:00to assess and appropriately respond to

25:02the needs and quality of life of the

25:03community. Um the council's goal of

25:07annual evaluation of the UDO. So, this

25:09is I need to count how many amendments

25:11we've done this year, but this is one of

25:12many that we've done this year, and we

25:14got more tonight, more that we'll be

25:16bringing forth to you in the coming

25:18days. Um, and that the the 30 days is

25:21consistent with other components uh in

25:24the code. One item that the mayor and

25:26council needs to consider is consistency

25:28with our land use plans.

25:32And at their meeting in um

25:36last month, the planning advisory board

25:38recommended approval uh and that

25:40recommended the council approved the

25:42text amendment based on the evaluations

25:44found in our staff report and

25:46specifically Camelan's plan goals 8 and

25:4824 being uh consistent and thus

25:51supporting the proposed amendment. Be

25:54happy to answer any questions the mayor

25:55and council may have at this time.

25:57>> Council, I have one question, Mr.

25:59Regina.

26:00>> [clears throat]

26:00>> So like uh fireworks and things like

26:03that, is that covered by this special

26:05event permit?

26:06>> So this special event permit is more

26:09specific. And I'm glad you asked the

26:11question because I wanted to add one

26:12other thing. This isn't going to be just

26:13for the mall. This will be applicable

26:15citywide. So this even though they

26:17requested the change, this now is going

26:19to be available for everybody should

26:20council amend the code. This is for

26:23items such as our food truck rodeos that

26:25you know sets up right now. I think it's

26:27the first Sunday of every month at

26:29Kimrolls for eight months out of the

26:31year because they reserve the other 14

26:33days. I mean the other six days they're

26:3414 for other events they have. This will

26:37now possibly allow them to have one the

26:40first Sunday of every month plus still

26:42have some extra days. This is where the

26:44the mall has their um the carnival that

26:47comes to town that they set up every

26:49year. They want to have things like

26:51maybe an RV show. um it's it's used by

26:55multiple businesses throughout

26:56Jacksonville.

26:57>> So the firework tents that are for sale,

26:59that's kind of more that's that's within

27:01this section, but that's not as it

27:02relates to this special event permit.

27:06>> So if if they're doing a food truck

27:08rodeo, uh they have to apply for a

27:10permit, but they can apply if they

27:12wanted to do it eight months out of the

27:14year, they could continuously apply for

27:17a permit. Is that true?

27:18>> So food truck is a little bit different.

27:20So, food,

27:21>> I'm talking about any event really. So,

27:23if you if if uh if somebody has a 30-day

27:27event and they want to continue to do

27:30that kind of event later on in the year,

27:33would they be able to do that?

27:34>> Once they've used the 30 up for the

27:36calendar year, they're done for the

27:38year.

27:39>> So, they could do, you know, once every

27:42weekend for 30 30 weeks out of the year.

27:47They get 30 days. Right now, it's 14.

27:49this proposal would would bump that to

27:5130

27:54>> and 30 is the max

27:56>> with what we're proposing at this time.

27:58That's correct.

27:59>> And there is no exceptions to that 30.

28:03>> Not to my knowledge. No,

28:05>> it was 14 before. Correct.

28:07>> It's 14 today. If this amendment's

28:09passed, it'll automatically go to 30.

28:11So, it'll it'll more than double the

28:13number of special event days that one

28:15could have on their property.

28:16>> It was originally proposed for 44.

28:19Correct.

28:19>> That is correct.

28:20>> Um what was the reasoning for going to

28:2330?

28:24>> Um well the downzoning bill once we let

28:27the cat out of the bag.

28:29>> So we're going to we're suggesting that

28:32we go to 30 if that's not a problem and

28:33the mayor and council wants to consider

28:35expanding that at a later date then

28:37that's something the mayor can can and

28:39council can consider in the future. But

28:41we're suggesting now that we limit it at

28:4330.

28:46>> I have a question. Here's the exception

28:48to the rule. You remember I think it was

28:51eight years ago when we went through

28:54hurricane Florence.

28:56>> Okay.

28:56>> Okay. Not looking for that to happen

28:58again. So say for example if I had food

29:00truck okay and I used up my 30 days and

29:05we have a natural disaster and food

29:08insecurity is now an issue in the

29:10community but I have a food truck that I

29:13want to give back to the public and

29:16offer free food but because I've already

29:19used up my 30 days

29:22is there is an exception to the rule in

29:25terms of can I now have my food truck to

29:29feed the public or am I capped at my 30

29:32days?

29:33>> So, I think we're I would look that

29:36differently. So, special event is where

29:37you have something that's special. A

29:39mobile food vendor because of the recent

29:41amendment the mayor and council made to

29:43the standards. A food truck one can set

29:46up on a piece of property

29:48>> unlimited number of days

29:50>> as long as it's zoned industrial or

29:52commercial. So there is no maximum

29:55number of days for a food truck to set

29:57up on a single lot provided the lot can

29:59accommodate it. So I kind of view that

30:01as different. This is where um like this

30:05I think it was this weekend Kimmel's had

30:06one of their their food truck events.

30:08They have food trucks, they have um

30:10craft vendors, um little pop-up tents,

30:14you know, pop-up businesses, and that

30:15was a special event. They also do a back

30:18to school event. They do a Jeep event. I

30:20mean, they do several different events

30:22during the year, and a food truck one on

30:25a parcel is different than where you do

30:28a food truck rodeo or a carnival or a

30:30circus or some other customer

30:34appreciation event. That would be what

30:36we're talking about here tonight.

30:38>> Let me rephrase the question.

30:40>> Say, for example, I still have this food

30:42truck and I've used up my 30 days, but

30:45you have a food truck and let's just say

30:47you're not working for the city of

30:48Jacksonville. So, you're going to have a

30:50special event in the community and I

30:54want to be a part of that special event

30:56with you. Could I still then partner

30:58with you?

31:01>> Absolutely. The 30 days is sight

31:03specific.

31:04>> Okay, got it.

31:05>> So, you could go next door and get

31:06another 30 days and you could go to the

31:08next site and get another 30 days.

31:10>> As long as the site can accommodate,

31:13give an example. Kimrells is a good one

31:14because we've had a lot of events there.

31:16>> They are overparked. They have 100 extra

31:19spaces. So they can block up 100 spaces

31:22for an event and still have enough

31:23parking for the business to be in

31:25operations. So they can only do 14 now.

31:28It's going to go to 30 if council amends

31:29this. Across the street 511, they've got

31:32some extra spaces. They have these

31:33events. They're going to now go from 14

31:35to 30.

31:37>> So on throughout the city for these

31:39special events,

31:44right?

31:48Thank you, mayor. Thank you, councel.

31:51>> So, at this time, I'll recess the

31:53regular meeting, open up a required

31:54public hearing on this UDO amendment.

31:58Uh, is there anyone present who wishes

32:00to speak to this issue?

32:02>> Okay.

32:04>> All right. If you would come up here to

32:06the podium, please, and state your name

32:07and address to the clerk.

32:12>> Good evening, Mayor and the Councilman.

32:15My name is Harry Hill. Address is 1813

32:18Ljun Boulevard. Concerning the special

32:20events and with the number of days that

32:22they're trying to escalate to from the

32:24current 14 to the 30. Will these

32:27particular events be monitored by the

32:29city at large for hired law enforcements

32:33and other individuals to pretty much

32:35oversee and as the businesses are being

32:37orchestrated in various locations

32:40throughout the city? Would there be some

32:42type of requirement from the city at

32:44large to keep the city at large safe?

32:48You know, required hired law

32:50enforcements and other sources of

32:53security that will monitor the events as

32:55they floating periodically and geograph

32:58geographically throughout the city.

33:01>> It's a good question, Mr. Hill, and I

33:02think we'll have a staff member address

33:04that with you if you'll hang around for

33:06a little bit.

33:07>> Sure. Thank you.

33:08>> Thank you,

33:08>> Mayor. And I can add a general comment

33:10too and we'll talk specifics on an event

33:12um if if you don't mind. Part of the the

33:15concern on special events is the impact

33:19it has on whether it's a parking lot,

33:21the neighboring community. So those

33:23points are spoton. So a lot of events

33:27have to go through a process where they

33:29are they're vetted, they're managed

33:31through the city, they have to have a

33:33plan in place. So when they get their

33:35permit, they have that plan in place.

33:37Access control is a big one. So where

33:39Mr. King's talking about uh traffic flow

33:43and patterns and parking space

33:44availability, that's a big part to the

33:47event. So back to Miss Smith's question

33:49earlier, we originally want to look on

33:52the side of we would like to allow sites

33:54to have longer periods of time. However,

33:58adjacent sites and multiple events in

34:00the same area could create some issues

34:02that council would be forced to come

34:04back and consider. So that's part of the

34:06the rationale behind if council wants to

34:09consider the 14-30 and then come back at

34:12a later date and consider the other, we

34:14would recommend that. But we'll also

34:16follow up to look at some specific

34:17events with with Mr. Hill.

34:19>> Wonderful clarification.

34:21>> Clarification.

34:21>> Ma'am, [laughter]

34:23am I correct? Just for the public's

34:25knowledge, uh, Mr. the it's safe to say

34:27that the city does not operate and

34:29manage those events, but every event

34:31that has a permit coordinates with city

34:33departments such as sanitation, police,

34:36and emergency response. So, there's a

34:38voice in those and some planning

34:39involved, but the city is not

34:40responsible for operating every event in

34:42the city either. Just for clarity.

34:46>> Thank you.

34:47>> Is there anyone else wish to speak to

34:48this matter? Seeing no one else, I'm

34:51going to close the public hearing.

34:52Council, you're being asked to adopt the

34:54uh

34:57amendment to the text there.

35:00>> Mayor, sir, I move that we adopt the

35:02unified development ordinance um as

35:04presented.

35:05>> Second. Any further discussion?

35:08Hearing none. All in favor signify by

35:10saying I.

35:11>> I. All opposed. [clears throat]

35:22Go now to 13 which is a zoning map

35:26amendment of 51 Plaza Drive is ne from

35:28neighborhood commercial to corridor

35:30commercial. Mr. King be presenting this

35:32item.

35:34>> Thank you mayor. Um this item is a map

35:36amendment resoning. It's for parcel

35:38located at 51 Plaza Drive. It's 34

35:41acres. Tax map ID number is identified

35:43as 414 414-7.4.

35:46for the current zoning is neighborhood

35:48commercial. Uh the proposed zoning that

35:52the applicant has signed on for is

35:54quarter commercial. Uh it's currently

35:57developed as a multi-tenant shopping

35:58center and has been that way for years.

36:01Uh with the adoption of unified

36:02development ordinance, the use table was

36:04created. The neighborhood commercial

36:06zone is a carryover. It was basically

36:08used to be called neighborhood business,

36:09but with the use table, some uses

36:11changed. And that's part of the reason

36:13for um the request before you tonight is

36:17this is a multi-tenant shopping center

36:19been used that way. But recently they've

36:21wanted to have some uses go in there

36:23that the current quarter neighbor

36:25commercial zone doesn't allow. And we've

36:27talked with the um ownership and they

36:30signed on for this map amendment that

36:33would give them more flexibility to use

36:34this existing building. As before you on

36:38the screen, the existing property of

36:40Butts Quarter commercial, the site in

36:42blue is neighborhood commercial. What

36:44they're requesting is to change to the

36:46same zoning that is along Gum Branch

36:48Road. The area to the south or duplexes

36:51there that are identified as residential

36:53multif family high density. So you do

36:55have a residential component that

36:56already abuts next to this existing uh

36:59strip center. The camel land use plan

37:02identifies this as neighborhood

37:03commercial which is in support of a

37:06change.

37:08In accordance with the ordinance and

37:10state statutes, we have u posted the

37:13legal ads in the paper and um posted

37:16signage that you see before you on site

37:19and we also sent letters to every one of

37:21the adjoining property owners. I did uh

37:24we did receive um I think one person

37:26reached out to the clerk's office and we

37:27provided them with information. Um, but

37:30other than that, I have not personally

37:31talked to anybody different. Um, more

37:33than that, with a reasonzoning map

37:36amendment, there's two items that the

37:37mayor and council need to consider. Is

37:39this proposal consistent with the Kim

37:41land use plan? And is the U proposal

37:44reasonable? And get logged back in. Um

37:48at their

37:50[clears throat]

37:51August 10th meeting, the planning board

37:53recommended approval and they sought um

37:56or they they identified the findings of

37:58fact in your agenda item A throughJ

37:59being found in the affirmative and that

38:01the proposed map amendment is reasonable

38:04and in the public interest that is

38:06consistent with the camel land use plan

38:08which designates the property

38:09neighborhood commercial. Miss Shirley

38:11Morrison is here on behalf of the land

38:12ownership. I'd be happy to answer any

38:14questions that the mayor and council may

38:16have of myself.

38:18Did the I'm sorry. Did the um

38:22announcement make it to the website? I

38:24didn't get a chance to check the

38:26website. That was one of the things that

38:27we incorporated to ensure um more um

38:31transparency with the community as to

38:32what's happening when it comes to um

38:35notification.

38:37>> So to my knowledge, we have not

38:39implemented anything on the web.

38:41>> I think as relates to public hearings,

38:42definitely um get with Miss Lisa. She

38:45would add it on there.

38:46>> Okay. Any

38:51other questions of Mr. King? Thank you.

38:54Right.

38:54>> Thank you.

38:57>> At this time, I'll assess the regular

38:58meeting and open up the public hearing

39:00on this matter. Is there anyone wishes

39:01to speak to this issue here?

39:05Seeing no one, we'll close the public

39:07hearing. Council being asked to approve

39:08the zoning map amendment.

39:12>> Mr. Mayor,

39:13>> Mr. Mayor, I move that we um approve the

39:15zoning amendment as presented. It is

39:18consistent with the adopted Camel Land

39:20use plan. It is reasonable and forwards

39:22the public interest.

39:24>> Second.

39:25>> Any further discussion hear? None. All

39:28in favor signify by saying I.

39:30>> I. All opposed.

39:32We're going on to number 14.

39:35>> Last item, I promise for me at least.

39:37Okay. Um this next amendment is another

39:40unified development ordinance amendment.

39:42Uh the mayor and council should be

39:44slightly familiar with this. This is a

39:46discussion item that we brought to

39:47planning board uh twice. Once for

39:50discussion and once for um

39:51consideration. And we also sought your

39:53feedback um previously and we've now put

39:58what we had uh that feedback we had

40:00received from you into a proposed

40:02amendment. Um this is to clean up

40:06several items as it relates to um

40:09legislative decisions to eliminate um

40:12standards that may be in conflict with

40:13the North Carolina General statutes. But

40:15this is also an amendment to modify the

40:18multifamily design standards that um

40:22affect multifamily apartment complexes.

40:25in conjunction with receiving the

40:27planning board and city council's

40:28feedback. Prior to that, we also had

40:30conversations with two architects and uh

40:34a local engineering firm. Does this go

40:36100%. Is this the perfect change? No,

40:38it's not. I don't know that we'll ever

40:40bring forth a perfect amendment, but we

40:42definitely think this is a step in the

40:44right direction. Um and I'll just kind

40:46of go through some of that. Currently,

40:48with the North Carolina General

40:50statutes, we're not allowed to regulate

40:52anything related to single family. that

40:54also includes town houses. So, we've got

40:56to eliminate any reference to design.

40:58So, this amendment will completely

41:00strike article 511, I believe it is,

41:02which is the single family design

41:04standards. It it'll be gone. Um, no more

41:07conflicts. There's some comments in the

41:10downtown residential downtown business

41:12zone that has some of the same language.

41:14We're going to propose with this

41:15amendment that that goes away as well.

41:18So, we've we've looked through the um

41:20the UDO as it relates to the the North

41:22Carolina residential code. um where

41:24we're not allowed to regulate and we

41:25think that we've covered all those

41:26items.

41:28We've also um dealt with like I said

41:31talking to the architects several

41:32developers with multif family projects

41:34and we believe we've um taken in

41:37consideration in this proposal that um

41:40addresses some concerns that they raised

41:42with the discussions that we've had with

41:44them. We believe this is going to add

41:46clarity to the applicability components.

41:48For example, one of the items that we're

41:50we're dealing with by chance at the same

41:52time. This is one of the architects we

41:54dealt with is in article 7, which is the

41:56non-conforming section, says if you have

41:58an existing multifamily complex and

42:00you're doing a major renovation project

42:02over a certain percent, you have to then

42:04do design standards for that multifamily

42:08project. Well, I don't know how you're

42:11going to adjust the foundation of an

42:13existing building when they're not

42:14proposing to eliminate a foundation. So

42:16this amendment will solve that problem

42:18that says if it was built prior to then

42:21they're not going to have to worry with

42:22those design elements. I just believe

42:24it's impractical to ask them to do that.

42:26So that's one of the items that um that

42:29will come up. One of the architects that

42:30we dealt with is actually dealing with a

42:32project right now where they're doing a

42:34renovation, but they're also doing a

42:35brand new build where they're designing

42:37a new building. So they were able to

42:38give us their perspective from both

42:40aspects. So um very gracious for the

42:43feedback that um that that firm provided

42:45to us. Uh we also talked with another

42:48architect that's not got any projects

42:49going on and just gave us you know

42:51candid feedback based on the way that

42:53they viewed the code. So no kind of

42:56interest other than just telling us hey

42:58I think this is good. I think this is

42:59bad. [clears throat] Um and we took that

43:01into consideration with what we what we

43:04brought forth to you.

43:06One of the items that we talked about

43:07with you was raise foundations for

43:09residential. We're eliminating that

43:11because of the concerns that we

43:13identified that that um creates for

43:16proposals. Um talked about the

43:18residential component.

43:21Um because there was one item uh and

43:23we're going to have a discussion on this

43:25again for a proposed amendment. We

43:27talked about it with you previously

43:28about the um the single family design

43:31centers contains the one tree

43:33requirement. So, we're just going to

43:34shift it over to 52 landscaping because

43:36it's kind of where it belongs since

43:38we're not going to have 511 anymore. Um,

43:41mentioned the the consistency component.

43:43Uh, clarified the foundation planting

43:45areas. Uh, we we added foundation

43:48planting requirements in lie of that

43:50foundation decorative base requirement.

43:52And then remember we if you remember we

43:56talked to you about well right now you

43:57can't have parking in front of the

43:58apartment complexes. And I believe that

44:00the mayor council said, "Well, we think

44:02that we should allow some provided they

44:04create some sort of a vegetative fence

44:06type buffer." So, we've added that into

44:08the proposal. So, today you can't park

44:10in front of the parking the building and

44:13the street. This will allow them an

44:15amount as long as they screen it

44:16accordingly. Um

44:19mentioned that we're getting rid of the

44:21um exposed foundation. Mayor and council

44:24voiced that they thought this was an

44:25appropriate style of development. Uh

44:27there's no exposed uh foundation

44:29decorative base with this, but we all

44:31believe it's in it's in a it's a

44:32good-look building. Um

44:36same thing with these uh two outside

44:38Jacksonville um examples.

44:42Um so one of the items that um the

44:45glazing requirements uh based on the

44:47building orientation, those are two

44:49items that basically were identified as

44:52needing improvement. So the amendment

44:54has um adjusted the orientation

44:57component and um reduced the 15% glazing

45:00requirement on all sides to just the

45:02side facing the public private street

45:04and reduce it down to 10 on the other.

45:06One of the items the architects talked

45:08about was you have bedrooms in a

45:09bathroom trying to get 15% of glazing on

45:13that facade gets a little bit hard to

45:15do. So, um, we took that feedback and

45:18and what we got from the planning board

45:19and city council and that's been

45:21incorporated into this proposal.

45:26Another item, um, right now the code

45:29limits a maximum footprint of 15,000,

45:31maximum length of 200. We're proposing

45:34to bump that to 20,000 ft and 230

45:41U materials. Currently, the the

45:43ordinance says you can only have one

45:44primary material, although we showed you

45:46a picture of one that was pre-UDO where

45:48there's more than one primary. Um, we're

45:50proposing to have a minimum of one and

45:53that that be at least 51%.

45:55And then one of the things that the

45:56architects, one of the architects

45:58mentioned to us was we were kind of

46:00naming brands versus material. So now

46:04we've moved this to materials versus a

46:06brand of material.

46:09And here's the parking lot screening

46:11slide that we showed you the same

46:13picture before. Um, so now it's going to

46:16get rid of the [clears throat]

46:17prohibition, allow it with a decorative

46:20fence, evergreen landscaping. Um, so

46:22it's not more landscaping. They still

46:24have to do landscaping. We're just

46:25saying if you're going to have parking,

46:27convert that landscaping to an evergreen

46:29type um species and add the fence. That

46:32way it creates that um that year round

46:37uh vegetative buffer.

46:40Just another example of parking between

46:42the street and the buildings on the

46:43right hand side with the fence.

46:48All right. So, um this is um as I

46:52mentioned, you know, we're unable to

46:53enforce laws that conflict with state

46:54laws. Um

46:57we'll make sure the UDO does not

46:58conflict with those statutes. We believe

47:01this is going to eliminate some

47:02confusion, conflict, and potential legal

47:04challenges. Meets council's goal for

47:06regular evaluations, annual evaluations

47:08of the UDO and responsiveness to

47:11development concerns.

47:14Um, as it relates to text amendment, you

47:16know, is this consistent with the camel

47:19land use plan? and um

47:24the the planning board cited that the

47:27proposed amendment is consistent with

47:28the Camelan's plan goal 27.8.

47:32I'll be happy to answer any questions

47:33the mayor and council may have at this

47:34time. [clears throat]

47:36>> Council, any questions? Mr. King,

47:38>> not a question, but a compliment.

47:40>> Yeah.

47:40>> Thank you for being responsive and

47:42listening to professionals in the field,

47:44engineers and developers who know what

47:45this takes on the street every day and

47:47taking that feedback and putting it to

47:49good use. Thank you. Yeah, definitely

47:51noteworthy. Yeah.

47:52>> Thank you.

47:54>> Appreciate all the feedback that the

47:56mayor, council, planning board, and

47:57those design professionals gave staff

47:59and and the the time spent by staff on

48:01this agenda item. Hopefully, this is

48:04moving in the right direction.

48:06>> Thank you.

48:07>> Thank you. This time I'll reset the

48:09regular meeting, open up a public

48:10hearing on this matter. U council,

48:13you've been asked to propo consider to

48:15propose annexation.

48:18Sorry, text amendment.

48:22lost my page. Anyway,

48:29>> public hearing,

48:30>> right?

48:34Weess the regular meeting, open up the

48:35public hearing in this matter. Is there

48:37anyone present wishes to speak on this

48:39issue?

48:42Not a very talkative bunch

48:43[clears throat] tonight. All right.

48:45Close the public hearing. Council,

48:47you're being asked to consider the uh

48:49tax amendments.

48:51[cough]

48:52>> I've lost this.

48:54>> I'll make a motion that we approve the

48:56UDO UD you I can't speak here.

48:59Contagious UDO um text amendment.

49:02>> Second. [snorts]

49:06>> Any further discussion?

49:08>> All those in favor say by saying I.

49:11>> All opposed. Uh next we're going to

49:13number 15 which is the FY 2526 caper uh

49:17report and Pam's going to give us the

49:21information on that. Aren't you Pam? Pam

49:23Trappton.

49:24>> All right. Good evening Mayor and

49:25council.

49:26>> Good evening.

49:28>> So tonight we'll bring forth our fiscal

49:30year 2526 consolidate annual performance

49:33and evaluation report, also known as our

49:35caper. Um, just to bring to remembrance,

49:38the mission of neighborhood improvement

49:39services is to connect Jacksonville's

49:42diverse communities, neighborhoods with

49:44city government to facilitate effective

49:46public participation, enhance economic

49:48opportunity, implement community-based

49:51strategies to improve the quality of our

49:52life for our citizens. And what you'll

49:55see before you is 2526.

49:58everything that we were able to achieve

50:01with the input of our community. The

50:04caper is a required report from US

50:07Department of Housing Urban Development,

50:09also known as HUD, so we can describe

50:12the investment in geographic

50:13distribution of our resources made

50:15available and an overview

50:16[clears throat] of the individuals and

50:18households assisted and evaluated. So,

50:21we are getting ready to do our endofear

50:23report.

50:24Our community development block grant is

50:28the source of our funds that help us

50:30with our programs and projects and

50:32activities that we do throughout the

50:34year. It is administered by HUD and the

50:37resources are to make sure that we are

50:39providing assistance for benefit low and

50:41moderate income persons or an area we're

50:44removing slum and blight or we're

50:46addressing an urgent need.

50:50When it comes to spending our funds with

50:52community development block grant, these

50:53are the activities that we are permitted

50:56to do. Whether it's acquisition,

50:58demolition, providing economic

51:00development with our small business

51:02owners, doing demolition and clearance,

51:04which addresses slum and blight, or

51:07participating in housing construction or

51:09rehabilitation projects.

51:12So to recap fiscal year 2526, our total

51:16resources available was 1,488,82.17.

51:24That is a combination of our grant funds

51:26that we have and program income that we

51:29received and the expenses that we've had

51:31for that year was 1,18,830.

51:37Specifically, we have to highlight how

51:40did we expend for our low mod benefits

51:42and that was 1,ion2,000

51:45and our program income received 538,000.

51:49Program income is received from previous

51:51loans that have been given to other

51:54citizens that are now paying it back

51:56over the course of time. And that allows

51:58us to continue to reinvest into our

52:01programs and activities versus just

52:03relying on our grant funds. which is why

52:06we continue to make that available.

52:10So from our goals to our actual

52:13outcomes, clearance and demolition, our

52:15goal was five. We completed four this

52:18year. Our residential rehab, we had a

52:21goal of two complete. We did complete

52:23two and also initiated two more.

52:26[snorts]

52:27Acquisition of property, acquiring three

52:30houses, we did purchase three. and

52:32nonprofit public services, a goal of

52:35100. We assisted 551

52:39and that's in addition with our

52:41partnerships with Enslo Community

52:42Outreach, Enslo Victim Center and

52:45Williams Outreach.

52:49So pictures say a thousand words. So

52:52here's what demolition will look like

52:54when we're talking about removing slum

52:55and blight. This is the pre

52:59and afterwards we leave a clean area for

53:02the homeowner to continue to maintain

53:05and leave a clean and green space.

53:09Residential rehab. This property is at

53:12123 Kit Drive. This is the home that we

53:15acquired and what it looked like when we

53:17purchased it.

53:19And in renovation, this is the current.

53:23We were able to maintain the exterior of

53:27the home so that way the streetscapes

53:29remain the same.

53:31This is what the inside looked like.

53:36And this is what it looks like now.

53:42When you walk through the front door,

53:44you had a wall here, a wall there, and

53:48now you have this.

53:51>> I love the background effects.

53:53>> [laughter]

53:55>> This is the laundry room.

53:58>> Like fireworks.

54:00>> All right.

54:01And here we are now.

54:05All right. Oh, let me go back. So, with

54:08123 Kit Drive, the reason why we

54:10purchased the properties is it allows us

54:12to continue with our infield

54:14construction. It allows us to make homes

54:16affordable and be able to provide home

54:19ownership where somebody would not have

54:21known to be able to do so. So once all

54:25rehab has been completed for this

54:27property, it will be available as a home

54:29to purchase through our program.

54:32The next one that we have is 426

54:34Myrtlewood Circle.

54:37This one is currently under contract

54:39already with a future homeowner. So, as

54:42you can see, we changed out the front

54:43door. We gave new windows.

54:48>> This was the kitchen when we purchased

54:50it.

54:53>> Here's the kitchen. Now,

54:57very nice.

54:58>> This was the living room.

55:02Here we are.

55:04I didn't hear those oo and all's but

55:07[laughter]

55:09again that just goes back to being able

55:11to make these opportunities affordable

55:14and without your assistance and your

55:16approvals for us to continue to go forth

55:18we would not be able to do this um with

55:21being able to provide home ownership

55:23opportunities.

55:25Our nonprofit assistance continues to go

55:28forth um being able to build the

55:30partnerships with our nonprofits. These

55:32are just pictures that you'll see from

55:34our annual nonprofit conference that we

55:37host at Sturgeon City. And our

55:40partnerships are also with Coastal

55:42Carolina Small Business Center and

55:44United Way

55:48for remainder of our annual action plan.

55:51Again, home ownership. We were planning

55:53to assist two and we did assist two

55:55homeowners becoming our multif family

55:58development. 84 units constructed. We

56:01have one project that's com underway

56:04with it construction and it will be

56:06complete September 2027 and that's our

56:09LField multif family units

56:12and economic development 10 owners

56:15assisted we were able to assist three

56:17that meet the low mod income and our

56:20economic development we have a

56:21partnership with Genesis block which

56:23allows them to be able to train provide

56:26technical assistance for those that are

56:28aspiring to become homeowners. It does

56:31require them to meet the low mod

56:33benefit. So for that person that is

56:36thinking about becoming a homeowner,

56:38sorry, a business owner and they do not

56:41have the funds quite yet, this is where

56:43Genesis Blocks allows them to come in.

56:46And again, thank you to our council, our

56:49mayor for always being available to

56:51welcome our new homeowners during our

56:53community development week. Here you

56:55have our two newest homeowners that were

56:59presented the wreath for our community

57:01development week.

57:04And for um just announcements, our last

57:08home ownership class for this year is

57:10October 3rd. Um we have a full class

57:13already and so that will close us out

57:15for 26 and then we will open back up

57:18schedule in 2027.

57:20Our last money management class is

57:23November the 7th, $10 fee.

57:28And for our initiatives, again, we are

57:31continuing to partner with our rehab

57:32programs with interest of loans and

57:35grants. So for those owners that are

57:38currently looking for assistance, we

57:41definitely invite you to apply with us.

57:44our down payment assistance. I wanted to

57:46emphasize that it's up to a h 100,000

57:49because in the city limits of

57:50Jacksonville, you have the potential to

57:52not only receive down payment assistance

57:54from the city of Jacksonville, but also

57:57through our partnership with Community

57:58Partner Loanful with North Carolina

58:00Housing. So, I didn't want to not show

58:04what the big picture could be when it

58:05comes to down payment assistance.

58:09And also for our reconstruction, we are

58:12having a working with the city workshop

58:15again on November 10th. For those that

58:17are working in the construction um

58:20business, our developers,

58:21administrators, this is an opportunity

58:23for them to learn how to do business

58:25with the city. So that way we can

58:27continue to build our pool of capable

58:31partners within the construction realm.

58:34Thank you. Any

58:37questions or comments for Pam?

58:39>> I've got one.

58:39>> I got one, too. Here.

58:41>> Mine's an easy one. I'll go first if

58:42that's all right, sir. Miss Trafton,

58:45just for everyone in the room and

58:46everyone who's watching, those 84 units

58:48of of some people say affordable

58:51low-inccome the the assisted financially

58:54assisted housing development that we've

58:56been waiting on forever and ever. Your

58:58goals said 84 and and it's slated for

59:002027. I just want to I will comment you

59:03can confirm that was not any doing of

59:05your office your team that is the state

59:07of North Carolina and the process for

59:09funding those assisted projects the

59:11grant process through that is very very

59:13slow we have discovered that it takes up

59:15to four years to get a project through

59:17so you can have land and you can have

59:19builder and you can have shovels and

59:21equipment and you're still not going to

59:23move any dirt for quite a while because

59:24of the funding process at the state

59:26level so I just wanted to point out that

59:27while that has been delayed it was

59:29through no fault or error or omission on

59:32your team's part. You guys have worked

59:34very faithfully and very hard to make

59:36this happen. It is just molasses in

59:40January on the funding side of things at

59:41the state level. So, thank you for all

59:43your hard work and just want to let the

59:44public know that that's the delay is not

59:46your fault.

59:46>> Oh, yes, ma'am. Thank you,

59:48>> Mr. Yero.

59:49>> I'd just like to comment uh first I'd

59:52like to commend you. You know, in my

59:54career, I saw I saw uh our neighborhood

59:58services change the complexion of

1:00:01neighborhoods, reduce the crime, um

1:00:04improve the quality of life. We talk

1:00:06about quality of life uh all the time

1:00:10and what you're doing, you know, with

1:00:14small home ownership and uh improving

1:00:18some of those blights has a has a

1:00:20tremendous impact on the quality of life

1:00:22for all of our citizens. So, I commend

1:00:25you and your team in uh in what you're

1:00:28doing and uh we're looking forward to

1:00:31some uh good things in the future that

1:00:34will make our whole community a better

1:00:38place to live.

1:00:39>> Thank you. We definitely can't do it

1:00:41without our leader in core, Miss Tracy

1:00:44Jackson.

1:00:45>> Thank you.

1:00:46>> Y'all do a great job. Great service to

1:00:49the community. I I wanted to add, you

1:00:51know, I definitely echo the sentiments,

1:00:53but I also want to add I had I had the

1:00:56privilege of sitting in on the uh

1:00:59meeting in um in place of fellow

1:01:02Councilman

1:01:04>> [clears throat]

1:01:04>> um Willingham. And

1:01:07I think it's important for

1:01:10the city, our citizens to know that um

1:01:15it's important for us to understand how

1:01:16the process of home ownership works so

1:01:19that we're not passing information

1:01:21that's not true. Um especially when it

1:01:24comes down to selecting uh individuals

1:01:27who go into the program. Um uh so I

1:01:31would definitely encourage uh going back

1:01:34and watching the meeting that night

1:01:36where you went through in detail um

1:01:39about the home ownership and how in the

1:01:41process of um getting it and how

1:01:45individuals can be in those programs up

1:01:47to two years. It's about getting them to

1:01:50the place where they can go into home

1:01:52ownership. And um and it's so important

1:01:55that we pass um correct information and

1:01:59we don't put anything out there just

1:02:02indicating only one sector of

1:02:04individuals are eligible for those

1:02:06homes, those beautiful renovated homes.

1:02:09Um and to go into home ownership. That's

1:02:11what we want to stress here in

1:02:13Jacksonville, home [clears throat]

1:02:14ownership. We do know we need rental

1:02:16property. We do know we need housing for

1:02:18our unhoused, but we also want to stress

1:02:22home ownership and and this is

1:02:24definitely one amazing program um that

1:02:27individuals can enter into knowing they

1:02:30have uh constantly going through

1:02:32counseling, their finances. It's just a

1:02:35I mean a list of things that needs to be

1:02:38um looked at and assist with uh in order

1:02:42to get to home ownership. So, I just

1:02:45wanted to thank you for that meeting and

1:02:48breaking that down. Um, and I just want

1:02:50to encourage those who are at home here

1:02:54with us to know the process and

1:02:56understanding that, you know, it is a

1:02:58fair process on who gets selected

1:03:01>> and knowing that those individuals are

1:03:03in the program for a length of time

1:03:06before selected.

1:03:08>> Yes, ma'am.

1:03:08>> So, thank you.

1:03:09>> Thank you.

1:03:10>> I would like to Oh, I was about

1:03:13>> Go ahead. I would like to echo the fact

1:03:15that um [clears throat]

1:03:17just sitting on council and over the

1:03:20last past 15 years have watched the

1:03:24waxing and the waning of the federal

1:03:26government when it has come to FUD um

1:03:30excuse me HUD's funding and how one year

1:03:34it can be at a at a level where the city

1:03:39can do so much for their citizens and

1:03:41then it's cut, the funding is cut, and

1:03:45we know that our citizens are the ones

1:03:48that um ultimately pays the price when

1:03:51those um federal dollars are cut and um

1:03:55the allocations of going back into our

1:03:58community. So kudos to um for you for

1:04:02doing an outstanding job and kudos to

1:04:06Miss Jackson as well for always looking

1:04:09out for our indivi our individuals that

1:04:14are in most significant need of housing

1:04:17and also the appreciative efforts of

1:04:20eliminating obstacles so that

1:04:24individuals who thought they could not

1:04:28obtain home ownership are actually

1:04:30seeing that they can obtain home

1:04:33ownerships. So kudos also to you council

1:04:36member Smith for bringing that up. So

1:04:38thank you.

1:04:39>> Okay,

1:04:40>> Mr. Will.

1:04:41>> I would just like to remind the public

1:04:44that historically community development

1:04:46formerly and now NIS has uh received

1:04:49recognition statewide and nationally

1:04:52they've had an award-winning program.

1:04:54I've recently talked to the city manager

1:04:57about infield development and uh he's

1:05:00very excited about infield development

1:05:03opportunities and maintaining an

1:05:06inventory of potential new opportunities

1:05:08for families and community development

1:05:11or NIS is playing a very important role

1:05:15in that infield development that uh at a

1:05:19time when we're challenged with respect

1:05:21to annexations and bringing in new

1:05:24properties. That that's the future I

1:05:26think for us is infield development. And

1:05:28so thank you all for the work that you

1:05:30all are doing and compelling the

1:05:32inventory and assisting with affordable

1:05:35housing and infield development.

1:05:37>> Yes.

1:05:40>> Thank you. Okay, counselor, you being

1:05:43asked to consider and approve the caper

1:05:46and uh also grant authorization for

1:05:48staff to submit the report after the

1:05:50closing of the comment period which is

1:05:52on September 21st.

1:05:56>> Mr.

1:05:57>> Mayor Phillips, I recommend that um

1:05:59council approve and give the city

1:06:01authorization to submit for fiscal year

1:06:042025 the caper plan as presented.

1:06:09>> Second. We have a motion and a second.

1:06:11Any further discussion? Hearing none.

1:06:13All in favor signify with

1:06:15>> Mayor apologize. We need a public

1:06:17hearing on this item as well.

1:06:18>> Oh,

1:06:19>> I was so happy too, mayor. I was ready

1:06:21[laughter] to go. I

1:06:23>> think heaven's Miss Trafton's paying

1:06:25attention to that one.

1:06:26>> Hey,

1:06:27>> got to have a script, right? If the

1:06:28script ain't right, it ain't right.

1:06:30[laughter]

1:06:31>> We had it. It was a deja vu.

1:06:33>> Okay. All right. Then we'll have a

1:06:35public hearing. How about that? Time.

1:06:37I'll recess the regular council meeting

1:06:39and open up the uh public hearing which

1:06:42is not mentioned on the agenda item. Uh

1:06:46so all anyone present that wishes to uh

1:06:49speak to this issue please indicate by

1:06:51raising your hand.

1:06:55No one

1:06:55>> Melanie

1:06:56>> Melanie. Oh there I didn't see your

1:06:59hand.

1:06:59>> I just have a question. Um with the

1:07:02rehabs do you all use the local vendors

1:07:06for that? the flooring, windows, and

1:07:10just wanted to know if you use the local

1:07:12vendors. And the other question is um

1:07:16what where does the money go that you

1:07:18don't use? Do you put it back in the

1:07:22money that wasn't spent? [clears throat]

1:07:24Does that go back into

1:07:28the bank or

1:07:30>> mayor if you don't mind? So, two parts

1:07:32to that. Excellent question. So for the

1:07:34one, we go through procurement

1:07:36standards. That's the state standards to

1:07:38make sure that any services that we're

1:07:40going to have. Um we we bid out those

1:07:42projects. So if we're going to do a

1:07:44rehab, we're putting them out to bid. Uh

1:07:47Tracy and her team typically have a a

1:07:51call for a pre-bid where they're going

1:07:53to talk to local contractors. They're

1:07:55going to talk to regional contractors.

1:07:56So what they're trying to do is maximize

1:07:58the utility of that dollar. So we try

1:08:00and find the person who's going to give

1:08:02us the best service for the best price.

1:08:04So that may not always be a local

1:08:06contractor. It may be someone who

1:08:07provides a better price. And that's part

1:08:10of the process. The second part is all

1:08:13the HUD funds are tracked through HUD

1:08:16expenses. So where Miss Trafton

1:08:19presented that this year revenues may be

1:08:221.4 million, expenses was 1.0 million,

1:08:26that 400,000 stays inside of that

1:08:28accounting fund. They don't co-mingle

1:08:30with general fund dollars or water and

1:08:33sewer dollars. They have to stay in that

1:08:35track. And there's a timeliness factor

1:08:37that you heard Miss Trafton refer to

1:08:39that says you have to spend those

1:08:41dollars within a specific amount of time

1:08:44or you lose those funds, which means

1:08:46they go back to the federal government.

1:08:49And so that's part of the challenge of

1:08:50tracking the funds and making sure that

1:08:52you're expending the dollars in a a

1:08:55timeliness fashion to make sure you're

1:08:57having a direct impact in the community

1:09:00every single day instead of sitting on

1:09:02dollars and waiting on what we would say

1:09:04one large project. You're doing multiple

1:09:06projects. So uh when you hear the call

1:09:09for Miss Trafton will come out and

1:09:11she'll give another report and she'll

1:09:12say we're kicking off the annual action

1:09:15plan again this year and we're asking

1:09:16for input. uh we encourage everybody to

1:09:18provide that input at those community

1:09:20meetings so that those dollars can be

1:09:23spent on the needs that the community is

1:09:25asking for. So I hope that answered

1:09:27those questions and uh one extra plug

1:09:29there for public input.

1:09:31>> Anyone else wish to speak to this

1:09:32matter? Yes, sir. With your hand in the

1:09:34back,

1:09:39>> please give your name and address to the

1:09:41clerk, sir.

1:09:44Joe Hill, 503A Country Club Road. On the

1:09:48last report, I noticed they had a little

1:09:51piece in there on the homeless. Where

1:09:53does the homeless play in that

1:09:56evaluation

1:09:58>> or the staff member that can answer

1:10:00that?

1:10:00>> Yeah, if you don't mind, mayor. So, the

1:10:02what we do with the annual action plan

1:10:04is we focus on multiple areas. So when

1:10:06you see the report that Miss Trafton

1:10:08provided, it's not just home ownership,

1:10:11it's not just uh education classes,

1:10:13there's also partnership and outreach.

1:10:16So when she says we're working with

1:10:18multiple partners to have that outreach,

1:10:20we have partners that we work with who

1:10:23are providing services to our homeless

1:10:25or unhoused population. So that's where

1:10:27that population comes in. For example,

1:10:29we may work with Enslo Community

1:10:31Outreach. We may work with United Way to

1:10:34provide funds for their programs and

1:10:37strengthen their programs so that

1:10:39they're more effective. We're trying to

1:10:41maximize those dollars as well. May not

1:10:43be a direct city program. It could be

1:10:46their program that we support utilizing

1:10:48those funds.

1:10:50>> Okay. U now [clears throat] I guess what

1:10:54I was trying to say is have we

1:10:56identified the homeless and where do

1:11:00they play in that? I remember we had a

1:11:02meeting one time before and I was told

1:11:05that they was working on that or they

1:11:07was going to identify it because uh

1:11:10we've we've already contacted at least

1:11:13four that we've been helping but there's

1:11:17not a program out there to at least get

1:11:20them out of this, you know, the shelter

1:11:23or or side of the road and staying in

1:11:26some of these abandoned homes. you know,

1:11:29do we have a program in place in the

1:11:32city to help that?

1:11:35>> Mayor, if I may. So, we actually, one

1:11:38thing we do have statewide is we do a

1:11:40point in time and so we do that count

1:11:42every year. What we try to do is to do a

1:11:46survey of the unhoused population to

1:11:48find out who doesn't have permanent

1:11:51housing, who has those needs, and then

1:11:53connect them with those services. And

1:11:55that's something that you do. I think we

1:11:57do that every January is when we do our

1:11:59point in time count. For your example to

1:12:02try and connect people to those

1:12:04services. Anything reference-wise that

1:12:06we have, we just need the information.

1:12:07They need to find a person where they're

1:12:09at and help provide the services. We

1:12:12don't do that directly inside the city.

1:12:14We work through our partners.

1:12:16>> Okay.

1:12:16>> For those services.

1:12:17>> Do we have a point of contact here in

1:12:19the city for that?

1:12:21>> Every you you can contact neighborhood

1:12:22improvement services. You can contact my

1:12:25office. You can call city hall. Uh you

1:12:27provide that information. We have uh

1:12:29community outreach officers through our

1:12:30police department as well. Sometimes it

1:12:33doesn't matter which door you come

1:12:34through. You provide the information.

1:12:35We'll reroute to the appropriate

1:12:37>> agency. And even after the meeting

1:12:39tonight, if you've got some information,

1:12:41please share it with any any one of us.

1:12:43>> Okay. Thank you.

1:12:43>> Thank you, Mr. Ch.

1:12:45>> I I just want to add just a little bit

1:12:47um because uh the gentleman is

1:12:49contacting individuals that may not have

1:12:52connected with our partnership. Um, I I

1:12:55had the opportunity to um hang out with

1:12:59individuals at the Enslow Outreach uh um

1:13:04Enslow Outreach Center here in

1:13:07Jacksonville right down there in New

1:13:09River. Um, but I would definitely

1:13:11encourage because if those individuals

1:13:12had not contacted CJ, they're very uh

1:13:15consistent in making sure they know

1:13:17who's out there, but they have to get in

1:13:19touch with them as well. So, I would

1:13:21encourage you to ensure that they have

1:13:23their names. There may be reasons why

1:13:25they're not going to these partnerships.

1:13:28So, um I would definitely encourage you

1:13:30to do that. Okay.

1:13:33>> And NC Serves is also for veterans.

1:13:37>> That's right.

1:13:38>> They they very active in trying to work

1:13:42with homeless veterans and get them the

1:13:45services that they need.

1:13:56I already made my motion.

1:13:58>> We're still in the public hearing.

1:14:00>> So, yeah, the public hearing that didn't

1:14:02really exist this time. We'll go back in

1:14:04regular session and uh we need a motion

1:14:07to accept it.

1:14:11Mayor Phillips, I'm make a motion that

1:14:12we accept the fiscal year 20 uh excuse

1:14:16me 20 2526 capable report for

1:14:20submission.

1:14:22>> A second.

1:14:23>> I have a motion and a second. Is there

1:14:24any further discussion?

1:14:27>> Hear not. All in favor signify by saying

1:14:29I.

1:14:29>> I. All opposed.

1:14:31>> So we're going to move number 15 over

1:14:33across the the way there. Correct.

1:14:35>> 16.

1:14:35>> I mean I'm sorry 16 across the way.

1:14:38>> Yes, sir. So, the uh the firm that's

1:14:40hired to help council with the

1:14:41redistricting and with reviewing uh some

1:14:44other items is set up in A and B. Uh

1:14:47mayor, if you'll give us a recess, we

1:14:48can transition. We're also going to

1:14:50leave the the feed in here as well. So,

1:14:52anyone that would like to stay in here

1:14:54or out in the lobby where it may be a

1:14:56little cooler, you can have uh access

1:14:58here to watch it as well. And if we can

1:15:00be over there, mayor will start as soon

1:15:02as council's ready. Okay.

1:15:30Oh, wait.

1:15:37Second session, we'll go to item 16. Mr.

1:15:40Ray, if you will introduce.

1:15:42>> Yeah, thanks, Mayor. So, appreciate

1:15:44coming into the workshop setting for

1:15:46this discussion. Uh, Miss Carolyn Mack

1:15:48is back with us this evening to talk to

1:15:50the council about the next item in this

1:15:53process, which would be to develop the

1:15:54criteria for what how the council is

1:15:57going to move forward um in their

1:16:00redistricting effort.

1:16:01>> Great. Thank you, Mr. Ray. Good evening,

1:16:04mayor, members of council. Good to see

1:16:06you all.

1:16:09So, um, to start off this, we've got a a

1:16:13map of the city. You've got see existing

1:16:16wards on there. And this is here just to

1:16:18give us a frame of reference we can come

1:16:20back to as we're talking. Um, I think

1:16:22it's just helpful to see your existing

1:16:25wards. And also, this gray area is all

1:16:29of the new annex territory. Um,

1:16:32obviously this doesn't include

1:16:34population data, but you can at least

1:16:36see the additional land and and what

1:16:39we've got to accommodate in the

1:16:40redistricting process.

1:16:44Here's just a more detailed map in case

1:16:46questions come up about that. So, we've

1:16:48got this. We can come back to it as we

1:16:50discuss things tonight.

1:16:54Uh, as Mr. Ray mentioned, tonight we're

1:16:56going to talk about criteria. And let me

1:17:00set the stage just a little bit. So

1:17:02criteria for redistricting, these are

1:17:05essentially council instructions to the

1:17:07map drawer. We've mentioned before some

1:17:10of those are required. Equal population

1:17:12is a required

1:17:14criteria because of the the equal equal

1:17:18protection uh provision of the

1:17:21constitution. You've probably heard of

1:17:22one person, one vote. And in North

1:17:25Carolina, the standard that's used is

1:17:26plus or minus 5%. So you take the city

1:17:29population, divide it by the number of

1:17:32wards, and then you can go up 5% from

1:17:34there, down 5% from there,

1:17:37>> and that keeps your wards all equal in

1:17:40population. And that due to the change

1:17:43in law, the districts are going to be

1:17:45drawn without any consideration of race.

1:17:48Those are required. Then you've also got

1:17:50optional principles. So, this is sort of

1:17:53what's important to Jacksonville. What

1:17:56what sort of input does the council and

1:17:59the members of the community want to

1:18:01have in how the district line is for

1:18:03drawn?

1:18:06So, let's pretend that we are buying a

1:18:08card. This council, seven members are

1:18:11buying a card. That's inventory.

1:18:13[clears throat] We need to fit all seven

1:18:14people in that card.

1:18:16But let's say one council member wants

1:18:19very good fuel economy. Somebody else

1:18:22wants to be able to tow a boat. Somebody

1:18:25else wants top-of-the-line technology.

1:18:27Another council member wants a truck bed

1:18:29to carry things. And somebody really

1:18:32wants a sun. Is there a car that

1:18:35satisfies all of these criteria?

1:18:39[cough and clears throat] No. So, some

1:18:41of these things are going to have to

1:18:43yield to others. And that's how

1:18:46redistricting works. Um, for those of

1:18:48you who have done this, you have

1:18:49probably experienced that there are

1:18:51certain things that you may just not get

1:18:54what you want. Members of the community

1:18:56may not get what they want um because

1:18:59certain criteria have to yield to

1:19:01others.

1:19:06All right. So I mentioned these are the

1:19:09two required criteria. You do have

1:19:11before you a draft resolution.

1:19:14It's up to you all what you do with

1:19:16that. You don't have to take any action

1:19:18tonight. You can take action if you're

1:19:20ready to. Obviously, the the um

1:19:23resolution that's in front of you says

1:19:26that the districts will have.

1:19:31It's in your agenda packet at the very

1:19:34end. So, it's like page 37.

1:19:53as well.

1:19:56And like I said, this is just a starting

1:19:58place. Um, up to you all what what to do

1:20:03with it and when.

1:20:05Um, this is just a little bit of math.

1:20:08This is based on the 2020 census data.

1:20:11So this tells you sort of how you divide

1:20:13the districts based on that data. These

1:20:16numbers don't include any additional

1:20:18population from the new annex area.

1:20:23We're working on that.

1:20:27All right. So let's talk a little bit

1:20:29about population.

1:20:32Every jurisdiction in North Carolina

1:20:34that I've been able to determine uses

1:20:36total population and that's based on the

1:20:39census data. General statute 168A-1016B.

1:20:44You may remember that's the statute that

1:20:48sets out the forms of government and the

1:20:50options for cities to you know how their

1:20:53councils are elected. 6B is

1:20:56[clears throat] have which is some

1:20:58number of at large seats plus some

1:21:00electoral districts and that statute

1:21:02says represents the same number of

1:21:04persons as nearly as possible. In 2016,

1:21:09the US Supreme Court decided a case

1:21:11about uh whether using registered voters

1:21:14or total population was appropriate. And

1:21:17the court held that a state was not

1:21:20required to use registered voters. That

1:21:22total population was an an adequate and

1:21:26um reasonable basis to divide uh

1:21:31population among districts. And the

1:21:33court said it promotes equitable and

1:21:35effective representation.

1:21:37And general statute 168-23B,

1:21:41which is the redistricting statute, says

1:21:44that council may use data from the

1:21:46census and shall not be required to use

1:21:49any other population estimates. So

1:21:52census data is the um most reliable

1:21:57data. We can get it down to the census

1:21:59block, which is usually the smallest

1:22:01unit that you use to redistrict. and you

1:22:04are allowed to use it even though we're

1:22:06talking about 2020 data and it's now

1:22:092026. You are authorized to use that

1:22:12data when you redistrict.

1:22:15>> Can I can I ask a question about that?

1:22:17>> Sure.

1:22:18>> So it doesn't it it requires us to look

1:22:21at uh doesn't require [snorts] us to use

1:22:24so we could use registered voters,

1:22:26right?

1:22:27you you can use registered voters as an

1:22:30additional um information piece. I am

1:22:36not aware of a jurisdiction that has

1:22:38used registered voters instead of total

1:22:41population and gotten an a one person

1:22:45one vote equal protection

1:22:48protection for that. Um, and in fact,

1:22:51this city defended a case that made that

1:22:54argument that registered voters should

1:22:56have been used and the judge said the

1:22:58reverse. That's just like the even wall

1:23:00case. They you're not required to

1:23:02equalize based on registered voters.

1:23:04Now, if you want that as an additional

1:23:07um, you know, additional flavor as we go

1:23:10through the process, that's certainly

1:23:12something that that we can do to provide

1:23:15that information. So, we can use

1:23:17registered voters and and uh

1:23:21um total population to kind of come up

1:23:24with some of

1:23:27how the wards are drawn.

1:23:29>> Yes. I I would not recommend equalizing

1:23:32registered voters without equalizing

1:23:36total population.

1:23:38Does that does that make sense?

1:23:40>> Sure does. Let's equalize total

1:23:42population first and then if you want to

1:23:44look at registered voters and see sort

1:23:46of how they break down and and make some

1:23:48changes but let's keep total population

1:23:50within that plus or minus 5%.

1:23:53>> The primary consideration

1:23:55>> that's right

1:23:56>> cuz I know you probably do this a lot.

1:23:58So how the total population part works

1:24:00when you have a area like here we have a

1:24:02very young population and some of that

1:24:04total population can't even vote. So

1:24:06like how but you know how does that

1:24:07work? How does that play a factor in it?

1:24:09>> They they count. So it's not just voting

1:24:11age population, it's it's total

1:24:14population.

1:24:19>> Any other questions about that?

1:24:22Okay, so um those are your required

1:24:25criteria. Then you got the optional

1:24:27criteria. This gets into, you know, your

1:24:29sun group, your technology, those sorts

1:24:30of things. Compactness, how how compact

1:24:34is a district? Um you know, it's sort of

1:24:37in the eye of the beholder.

1:24:39Some of that depends on geography of the

1:24:41city. Obviously, there's some

1:24:43mathematical measures. My experience is

1:24:46in cities, it's hard to to really rely

1:24:49on those mathematical measures of

1:24:51compactness. Uh it's really just the

1:24:55eyeball test. Does it look decently

1:24:57compact?

1:24:59Contiguity. Do parts of the district all

1:25:02touch one another? Water counts. So you

1:25:04can be contiguous across water, which

1:25:06you may remember from looking at your

1:25:08existing board map. That's how your

1:25:10districts are drawn.

1:25:12Uh recognizing and respecting

1:25:14neighborhood boundaries and keeping

1:25:16subdivisions whole. And let me say these

1:25:19optional criteria are based on what the

1:25:22city has done in the past. So what was

1:25:25done in 2021 as well as what I've seen

1:25:28other cities do across the state. Um, so

1:25:32keeping neighborhoods together so that

1:25:34everybody in the neighborhood is voting

1:25:36for the same board seat. Um, there's,

1:25:39you know, the idea is it eliminates or

1:25:42reduces voter confusion. If somebody

1:25:44down the street has one person sign and

1:25:46then they go to vote and that person's

1:25:48not on their ballot, keeping

1:25:49neighborhoods whole is one way to to

1:25:52sort of um guard against that.

1:25:55following natural boundaries, major

1:25:57roads, physical features. So, you know,

1:26:00the dividing lines are certain

1:26:01geographic features, major roads. That

1:26:04usually makes things a little bit easier

1:26:06for voters, makes things easier for the

1:26:08elected officials as well.

1:26:11Minimize splitting of census blocks.

1:26:13That makes things easier for your map

1:26:16drawer and uh for the board of elections

1:26:18when figuring out where to assign

1:26:21voters.

1:26:23minimize splitting of election

1:26:24precincts. Again, that's that's a voter

1:26:26confusion thing and it um it it makes

1:26:31things a little bit easier for the board

1:26:32of elections if they know, okay,

1:26:34everybody in this precinct is getting

1:26:36the exact same ballot style. We don't

1:26:38have to have two different ballot styles

1:26:40for city council.

1:26:42No double bunking of incumbent. So um

1:26:45that would be we have your addresses for

1:26:49those of you elected from wards and we

1:26:52draw the districts just so that you are

1:26:54not placed in the same ward as somebody

1:26:56else and then consideration of future

1:26:59growth where where is the growth likely

1:27:01to be in the city so that when you have

1:27:03to do this again in 2031 maybe you don't

1:27:06have [snorts] to make as drastic of

1:27:08changes.

1:27:09>> Can I can I ask another question?

1:27:12Part of that optional criteria could be

1:27:15how we how the base splits the strategy

1:27:18for splitting splitting the base. Right.

1:27:20>> That's right.

1:27:21>> And so

1:27:23um you know I noticed that wasn't in the

1:27:25criteria

1:27:27that uh in the resolution, but that

1:27:30could be added, right?

1:27:31>> That that could be added. This is a

1:27:32starting point. It's up for council's

1:27:34discussion and you know whether you do

1:27:37it tonight or another night. It's it's

1:27:39up to you all

1:27:40>> and for everything other than the two

1:27:42required criteria they all say to the

1:27:45extent possible because as you mentioned

1:27:47earlier one may have to yield to the

1:27:48other to make

1:27:50>> that's right so compactness continuity

1:27:53all of it would be as the greatest

1:27:56possible that's right

1:27:58>> and one of the other criteria I think

1:28:00that's that's important is um how

1:28:04defendable this

1:28:06how we when we change it how defendable

1:28:09it will be in court.

1:28:10>> Mhm. [clears throat]

1:28:12>> So being able to look at that uh Kalias

1:28:15decision and some other decisions that

1:28:18have been made um I think is an

1:28:20important criteria to make sure that

1:28:23we're on sound ground

1:28:25uh as we move forward.

1:28:28>> Yes.

1:28:31Any other

1:28:33questions or comments

1:28:37>> on that note? When you went over the

1:28:40drawing without consideration of race,

1:28:42that just takes care of that um that

1:28:46Louisiana case, right? So, there's

1:28:48nothing outside of that that we need to

1:28:50focus on.

1:28:51>> That that case was about um districts

1:28:53drawn based on race. There's no

1:28:54justification for that.

1:28:56>> Okay. So knowing that it's drawn without

1:28:58consideration of breaks, we don't need

1:28:59to go back and forth regarding that um

1:29:02decision to find out what else we need

1:29:05to do.

1:29:05>> Right.

1:29:13>> Right. So as I mentioned, you have a

1:29:16template resolution. This is just sort

1:29:17of the blueprints for moving forward in

1:29:20this process. Um, and I will turn it

1:29:24over to you all for discussion about

1:29:25that. And again, you you can discuss

1:29:28whether you want to sit on this, whether

1:29:30you want to have public comment or a

1:29:33public hearing on it, whether you want

1:29:34to go ahead and make decisions tonight.

1:29:38Um, that is up to you all. So, I will

1:29:42yield my my time and I'm here if you

1:29:44have questions.

1:29:48>> I'd like to see go

1:29:51Okay. Um,

1:29:53and please forgive me if I have

1:29:55something incorrectly, Miss Mackey. So,

1:29:57I would appreciate if you um can correct

1:30:01me if I'm wrong. I had the privilege um

1:30:05in 21

1:30:08to be on council when the redistricting

1:30:12committee last met based on the 2020

1:30:15census.

1:30:18And with House Bill

1:30:22North Carolina, House Bill 722 that was

1:30:26adopted by the North Carolina

1:30:27legislatures.

1:30:29Um, this particular bill applied to all

1:30:32the cities with wars. That moved our

1:30:35elections from November 21 to March of

1:30:3822 because of the fact that we received

1:30:41our census

1:30:44data late and we would not have had the

1:30:47opportunity

1:30:49to review that data by the time the

1:30:53November 21st election was going to take

1:30:58place.

1:31:00One of the things that I remember

1:31:03um because I was the council member that

1:31:04attended that meeting, the very first

1:31:06meeting, one of the things that then um

1:31:11Mr. John Carter, our attorney,

1:31:14said to us was that the redistricting or

1:31:19the redrawing of the boundaries

1:31:23is specifically

1:31:25related only to the 2020

1:31:30census data population.

1:31:33You cannot even because the argument was

1:31:37from 2010

1:31:41to 2020

1:31:44that there was an under representation

1:31:48for the city of Jacksonville because it

1:31:50was showing that the city only increased

1:31:53by 2500.

1:31:56Mr. Carter specifically said that even

1:31:59though

1:32:00it's probably an under representation

1:32:04because the census reported the city of

1:32:08Jacksonville at 72,723

1:32:14citizens, [clears throat]

1:32:16we could not incorporate any other

1:32:21numerical figures. So even moving

1:32:24forward with our decision,

1:32:28even if the fixation is due to occur,

1:32:34is it my understanding that we still

1:32:36cannot potentially use

1:32:39that annexation population because again

1:32:43we still have to go back to the 2020

1:32:45census population which is the 72,723.

1:32:52So you would use the census data for the

1:32:55new districts, new boundaries of the

1:32:58city.

1:33:00>> They're census data for those areas that

1:33:03weren't in the city. And so what we

1:33:06would do is basically extend our

1:33:09boundaries as the map shows and then use

1:33:13the census results from 2020 for that

1:33:17new area. add that to the census results

1:33:21that we use for the existing city.

1:33:25>> Okay. So,

1:33:28does the federal government take into

1:33:30consideration when there is annexation

1:33:33and a city wants to change the

1:33:37redistricting line that you now can

1:33:42incorporate

1:33:43those new citizens that are within that

1:33:47particular jurisdiction or city. So, the

1:33:50the census data is reported at different

1:33:53levels. The smallest level is a census

1:33:56block which could be you know just a

1:33:59city block. It could be smaller than

1:34:01that. It could be larger than that.

1:34:03>> Um this new territory is made up of

1:34:06census blocks and census tracks. So we

1:34:10will pull that data and add it to the

1:34:13existing 72,000

1:34:16figure. Does that make sense?

1:34:18>> So is that not changing what the 2020

1:34:22data reported? No, it's taking the 2020

1:34:26data for those new areas of the city and

1:34:30adding them to the city population.

1:34:32>> Same census, same

1:34:34>> in this map that you're looking at. The

1:34:3672,000 figure from the 2021

1:34:40redistricting is from those areas in

1:34:42red, blue, green, and yellow. The

1:34:44existing the the city boundaries as of

1:34:472021. Now, the city boundaries will

1:34:50include those gray areas. So we will

1:34:53take the census data, the population

1:34:55figures from those census blocks and add

1:34:58them to it because those areas are now

1:35:01part of the city.

1:35:03>> My next question there. Okay. My next

1:35:06question um and thank you for that

1:35:08information is that

1:35:10um there is supposed to be new proposed

1:35:14changes to the 2030

1:35:19census

1:35:20and if those changes are implemented

1:35:25what happens now because we're looking

1:35:29at the possibility that we could be

1:35:32impacted. So, if we're deciding to

1:35:34change something now and then within

1:35:395 years, we're looking at making another

1:35:42change. Are we putting the cart before

1:35:45the horse?

1:35:47>> In 2031, you will have an obligation no

1:35:50matter what to look at your population

1:35:53and look at, you know, the the balance

1:35:54of population among the wards. So, um,

1:35:59whether you do it now or not, you still

1:36:02have that obligation.

1:36:04>> Oh, absolutely. In 2030. Absolutely. But

1:36:06what I'm asking is in this laborious

1:36:10effort, we're looking at the possibility

1:36:13of changing the lines now and then

1:36:16within another five years,

1:36:20we're looking automatically we have to

1:36:23change the lines. you have to look at

1:36:26whether you have to change the lines in

1:36:282030. Um, not not every city does. And I

1:36:32had a county actually a very large

1:36:34county in 2021 that only had to move one

1:36:37precinct because they had their

1:36:40population growth across the county was

1:36:42just uniform. So, you have an obligation

1:36:44to look at it, but you may or may not

1:36:46have to change your lines.

1:36:48>> But for tonight's presentation, um, I

1:36:50didn't want the public to be confused.

1:36:52We're not, even though you made the

1:36:54reference to a county, we're

1:36:56specifically talking about the city of

1:36:58Jacksonville and not Ensolo County for

1:37:01redistricting.

1:37:01>> That's correct. This is just city of

1:37:03city of Jacksonville city council

1:37:06boards.

1:37:07>> Okay. I'll hold my other questions for

1:37:09later. Okay. Thank you.

1:37:12>> Make a motion.

1:37:14>> I I move that we adopt the resolution as

1:37:17recommended and presented here. Uh,

1:37:20resolution 2026-25.

1:37:23>> Second.

1:37:27>> Any further discussion? Would you

1:37:29>> I would like to amend the resolution,

1:37:33but we have a motion and a second on the

1:37:34floor. We have to deal with that. Um,

1:37:37Miss Welsh advised me procedurally. Is

1:37:40there anything while we have a motion

1:37:41and a second, are there any options for

1:37:44um making an amendment to this or do we

1:37:46have to take action on the motion on the

1:37:48floor first? Yeah, I think what you'd

1:37:50want to do right now is enter into the

1:37:51discussion session of this to talk about

1:37:53what you know council may or may want to

1:37:55discuss about the adoption of the

1:37:58resolution is written and that can give

1:38:00folks some ideas about whether or not

1:38:01they want to make motions that may

1:38:02supersede this motion.

1:38:05>> Yes, cuz I have questions regarding

1:38:07that.

1:38:08>> Yeah. Um, one of the things that I

1:38:10wanted to bring forth on this one is

1:38:12that we add a number alone and that it

1:38:14be an extra consideration as the other

1:38:16ones are to the extent possible, but

1:38:18that we say that we want to have equal

1:38:20distribution of population aboard

1:38:22military installations between the wards

1:38:25to the extent possible.

1:38:27That's still using population count, not

1:38:29voter registration, but addressing the

1:38:32base population being spread across all

1:38:34to the extent possible.

1:38:36Anything

1:38:47else, Cindy?

1:38:48>> No. To me, that's a common sense. It's

1:38:50one of the challenges that we've run

1:38:52into. It's a pretty basic common sense

1:38:54fix and like everything else, it'll have

1:38:55to be worked into the mix and we'll

1:38:57figure it out, but it should be

1:38:58>> an option on the table.

1:39:00>> That's definitely something we heard

1:39:01throughout the process on divvying up

1:39:03the base population. So

1:39:06>> I understand that. My question I I got a

1:39:09question and well two questions. Who

1:39:12sets the boundaries for the to the

1:39:15extent possible?

1:39:18What does that look like?

1:39:20>> So some of that is um

1:39:24some of it it may come in different

1:39:26options for you all. We may come back

1:39:28with six different maps. We may come

1:39:31back with three. and then you say,

1:39:33"Okay, move this line this way. See if

1:39:36you can do this without messing up equal

1:39:38population." Um, it's you've got to

1:39:42start somewhere. And so it may be an

1:39:45iterative process.

1:39:46>> Um, so basically this statement gives us

1:39:48that wiggle room.

1:39:49>> That's right.

1:39:50>> Okay. Um and my next statement was we

1:39:53talked about this last council meeting

1:39:55about uh a second of numbers we could

1:39:58use the state dem

1:40:01>> demographer

1:40:02>> demographer there we go uh numbers now

1:40:05and that would be as current I might

1:40:07have looked it up as current as 2024.

1:40:10>> What how do those numbers come into

1:40:12play? So, those are additional

1:40:14considerations that you can look at that

1:40:16sort of gives you an idea of population

1:40:18change since the census. Um,

1:40:22there's

1:40:24when you're when you're talking about

1:40:26census blocks and drawing lines based on

1:40:28the census blocks, the farther you get

1:40:31from census data, [laughter] the less

1:40:34reliable that data is. So taking you

1:40:36know population data from the the state

1:40:40may not be able to be translated in GIS

1:40:43terms to the specific you know small

1:40:47areas of the city. Does that make sense?

1:40:50>> It it does. I I understand it definitely

1:40:52the further you get away from the census

1:40:54the less reliable. They're not monitored

1:40:56as close as you would at these census.

1:40:59>> Okay. the the the census numbers of

1:41:02course were tied based on the count in

1:41:04those census blocks. The state

1:41:07demographer

1:41:09doesn't [clears throat] have the

1:41:10information to be able to make

1:41:12adjustments to the individual census

1:41:14blocks. So that's just an adjustment to

1:41:18the total population of the city. So you

1:41:22you know the methodology end up being a

1:41:25little bit different.

1:41:27I definitely wanted to bring that up so

1:41:29we can just get that one off the table

1:41:31since we talked about it last time. Oh,

1:41:33those are the only questions I have.

1:41:36>> I have two questions. One is I mean I

1:41:39would like to see registered voters in

1:41:41there as part of the criteria that we

1:41:43look at uh to divide up the the census

1:41:46blocks or the the wards. The other thing

1:41:50is um and I may be getting ahead of

1:41:53myself is um a public public input

1:41:58strategy.

1:42:00you know, as part of as part of the

1:42:02criteria, making sure that uh different

1:42:06parts of our community have an

1:42:08opportunity to talk about the maps, view

1:42:11them, and and uh collect that

1:42:14information and incorporate it in part

1:42:17of the uh in part of that process to do

1:42:22that.

1:42:23>> So, I don't know if that's part of the

1:42:24process that we'll talk about or if it's

1:42:27part of this criteria.

1:42:29>> So,

1:42:30What I would suggest is deciding the

1:42:32substantive criteria tonight and then

1:42:35the next meeting that I meet with you

1:42:38all let's talk about process and set out

1:42:42the process to follow and then that's

1:42:43when you can decide um you know public

1:42:46input will be a part of it but you can

1:42:49sort of set the framework for what that

1:42:51looks like. Yeah, cuz my concern is that

1:42:54um too much uh input could derail us and

1:42:59take us in a direction that we don't

1:43:01want to go. Um at the same time, um I

1:43:04know that there's a lot of talk

1:43:06regarding um our voters and who's

1:43:09registered. Um those numbers can change.

1:43:12Um, and if we use that, we're we can

1:43:15find ourselves uh disenfranchising

1:43:18people because they chose not to vote

1:43:21that time. They may decide to vote this

1:43:23time. So, I I do have concerns about

1:43:27both of your points. So, I think when we

1:43:29talk about the optionals and the

1:43:31balances and guidelines, we definitely

1:43:33have to be able to defend that. Well,

1:43:35but I do think that that there's an

1:43:37opportunity to look at registered voters

1:43:40and and use that not as the criteria,

1:43:42but as a consideration point of of how

1:43:46those wards are divided up?

1:43:49>> Another question for the attorney.

1:43:51>> Uh, can a substitute motion be made?

1:43:55So, so you're you're only able to do one

1:43:57substantive motion at a time, but some

1:44:00procedural motions can be made while

1:44:02there's a substantive motion on the

1:44:04table. So, um what you would have to do

1:44:07is is debate this particular motion

1:44:09that's on the table or make a procedural

1:44:12motion that would take priority. And

1:44:14that, for example, be something like, I

1:44:17move to defer consideration of Mr.

1:44:18Willingham's motion. Then we'd have to

1:44:20rule on that before we ruled on Mr.

1:44:22Willingham's motion. Or someone could

1:44:24say, "I move to refer Mr. Willingham's

1:44:27motion to a committee." That would be a

1:44:28procedural one that would take priority.

1:44:30Or um Mr. Willingham could even withdraw

1:44:33his motion. So that would take priority,

1:44:36but you cannot have another substantive

1:44:38motion that someone else puts on the

1:44:40table while we're still considering Mr.

1:44:42Willingham's motion.

1:44:43>> Substitute is not an option. I have

1:44:47[snorts]

1:44:47>> Okay, just

1:44:48>> I'm sorry.

1:44:49>> No, no, go right ahead.

1:44:50>> So with [clears throat] Mr. Willingham's

1:44:53motion.

1:44:55Um,

1:44:57Miss Edwards can put in an amendment to

1:45:00the motion.

1:45:03>> She could

1:45:03>> she could she could definitely amend and

1:45:06bring it in. And so the the thing we

1:45:08need to be voting on is her amendment

1:45:11and then we go back to the primary. It's

1:45:13just a little tricky because an

1:45:14amendment is improper if the adoption of

1:45:17the amended motion has the same effect

1:45:20as the rejection of the original motion

1:45:22and [snorts] his motion was to to make

1:45:24this resolution as it's written.

1:45:27>> Right.

1:45:27>> So if you say I want to make a motion to

1:45:30amend it, it's almost like rejecting his

1:45:32motion. It's

1:45:33>> to do it as written. her

1:45:36>> her motion

1:45:37>> can be

1:45:40allowed and we can vote to add that and

1:45:43then it's a matter of whether or not we

1:45:46are going to all you know adopt the

1:45:48whole thing but her her motion has to be

1:45:51considered

1:45:52>> I would have to hear the motion to to

1:45:53make a better determination

1:45:55>> well you're right

1:45:56>> complete discussion

1:45:57>> yes Mr. Willingham let's let's pause

1:46:00that for a second Mr.

1:46:02Okay.

1:46:04This resolution represents a

1:46:07recommendation from the consultants.

1:46:11We've been through World War II over

1:46:14this. And

1:46:17um

1:46:19had all the public comment when the

1:46:21public comment didn't suit us, the

1:46:23public comment didn't matter.

1:46:26Um, I think there's a time for public

1:46:28comment

1:46:30after there's a presentation and after

1:46:34we have a product that we could talk

1:46:36about, but um, [clears throat] these

1:46:39things that we're talking about,

1:46:42we just brought up what was litigated

1:46:46years ago and kicked out of court

1:46:49talking about Kent Leune [clears throat]

1:46:52and that um, was produced discriminatory

1:46:55For a result,

1:46:58in this country,

1:47:01prisons are counted. Most of the people

1:47:03in prison can't even vote. They're

1:47:05counted in the population.

1:47:08And and and and that's consistent with

1:47:10our constitution.

1:47:11Now, we want to come up and and to me,

1:47:15it's a football analogy where you ran a

1:47:18a sweep around the left end two times

1:47:21and it was stopped. And now you going to

1:47:24run a a reverse around the writing to

1:47:27come right back to something that was

1:47:29stopped. [clears throat] This was uh and

1:47:32and when you break it down, when you

1:47:35start adding these things that want to

1:47:37be added to something that is consistent

1:47:40with clay that has been produced, you

1:47:43going right back to where we were with a

1:47:49preoccupation with a result. This

1:47:51shouldn't be about who gets elected and

1:47:53the result. Oh, people don't vote on

1:47:55base. It shouldn't be about that. It for

1:47:59me,

1:48:01elementary school kids could divide in

1:48:03quadrants and get the numbers right.

1:48:06Okay. But um [clears throat] we want to

1:48:10disenfranchise the base. One of the

1:48:12comments was they don't pay taxes.

1:48:15These people are citizens. They have a

1:48:17right to vote. And even to do what

1:48:19you're talking about doing,

1:48:21you're just going to divide them up.

1:48:23When

1:48:25Clay, why don't we just stick with Clay

1:48:29right here at number five? Recognize and

1:48:32respect neighborhood [clears throat]

1:48:32boundaries,

1:48:34but we don't care about the boundaries

1:48:35on base.

1:48:38The base people are contiguous

1:48:42with wars uh 3, 1, and four.

1:48:49Correct.

1:48:49>> No. [clears throat] One, two, and four.

1:48:51>> Yeah, that's why I said correct. Okay.

1:48:53>> One, two, and four.

1:48:54>> One, two, and four. They're contiguous.

1:48:55That's just how it happens.

1:48:56[clears throat]

1:48:57And if you talk about keeping

1:48:59communities together, you might want to

1:49:01research the history and find out that

1:49:03when a lot of people were displaced off

1:49:06off the base, they moved to Leon

1:49:09Boulevard. They moved to Georgetown.

1:49:12they move to these areas that are on

1:49:15this side of 24.

1:49:17Those are things that are recognized in

1:49:20the case law as far as keeping

1:49:22communities together, but contiguousness

1:49:27in Clay. I could give you the the page

1:49:29number where they talk about contigu

1:49:32contiguousness and compactness.

1:49:34They cited those things. They give you

1:49:36an algorithm in Clay [snorts] where they

1:49:39mention things like minimize changes to

1:49:43prior maps, avoid districts with

1:49:45discontiguous

1:49:47territory,

1:49:49impose standards of compactness. Now,

1:49:52the case law says that. Show me a case

1:49:55law that says dividing up the base. Show

1:49:58me a place that divided up the base. The

1:50:01last I heard, uh, I think the attorneys

1:50:04had worked in Goldboro. We're not the

1:50:06only ones with with bases. They don't

1:50:09divide up the base and scatter them all

1:50:10over the city. Is disrespectful to to

1:50:12those citizens. Those are citizens, but

1:50:16it doesn't matter. And we can just put

1:50:18them here as ponds because we want a

1:50:20certain result.

1:50:22This should not be about a result.

1:50:26I lived in own based community. I lived

1:50:27on Quantico. I know that there's a sense

1:50:30of community there and so you're just

1:50:32going to arbitrarily just chop up

1:50:34streets so that you can get a result

1:50:37and the same result that was in that

1:50:40case that said because we included camp

1:50:44it was discriminatory was kicked down

1:50:48and now we're right back there with the

1:50:49reverse

1:50:51and nobody Okay.

1:50:54>> Oh, you finished.

1:50:55Nobody

1:50:57at this table has a problem with campus

1:51:01being in a district.

1:51:03Okay? Cuz it's a congressional district.

1:51:06Nobody says divide it up and put it in

1:51:08other district. Somehow that's fair to

1:51:09the other district. It's only us. And

1:51:12it's because the desire of a certain

1:51:16result. If campou is on the east side of

1:51:2024, that's where it is. And we should

1:51:23let the chips fall with their name

1:51:27instead of all this manipulation. This

1:51:29is what's fair. Everything else is

1:51:31attempt to manipulate this. That

1:51:34contradicts the things in here. It

1:51:37contradicts compactness. When you take

1:51:39camp and you put them in war three, it

1:51:42contradicts a contiguousness. When you

1:51:46do that, why on earth do we want to add

1:51:4811 12 that contradict this? simply

1:51:52because we can say, "Oh, to the extent

1:51:54possible." And then we want a lawsuit.

1:51:56We want to say, "We're avoiding

1:51:58lawsuits." When you're pushing the

1:52:00limits to the extent possible, that's

1:52:02what we're doing. And there's no need

1:52:05when we have a fair process.

1:52:07All of this is about results. We don't

1:52:10have any board in the city

1:52:12[clears throat] that is majority black.

1:52:17Never been that way. They just aren't.

1:52:20And when we divide this up consistent

1:52:23with clay, with compactness, okay, my

1:52:27ward will be diluted. But I'm okay with

1:52:30that. I'm okay with that because that's

1:52:32what's fair. Okay. And we let the chips

1:52:35fall where they may. My ward will

1:52:37probably have Beayshore, Mule Avenue,

1:52:41uh, Lagoon. Well, Lagoon Bay is already

1:52:44there. Shoreline, and Riverwalk Landing.

1:52:47Okay.

1:52:49If you look, if you want to analyze the

1:52:51results so bad and you think that

1:52:53there's a racial component, that

1:52:56certainly wouldn't help my board. I

1:52:57think everybody agree with that. But I

1:52:59don't care because that's the fair thing

1:53:01to do in the context of where we are

1:53:04with the case. It's just dividing it up

1:53:07equally, not crossing major highways and

1:53:10getting the numbers correct and

1:53:12adjusting whatever you have to do to get

1:53:14the numbers correct. That's all we

1:53:16should be talking about.

1:53:18That's what this does.

1:53:22>> Well, earlier you mentioned contiguous

1:53:24means by water. Correct.

1:53:25>> Correct.

1:53:26>> So I mean that

1:53:27>> that touches all that. So that [snorts]

1:53:30reaches all wards.

1:53:34>> I mean you can see the water line right

1:53:35up to war three.

1:53:37>> And there's water right there.

1:53:38>> Yeah.

1:53:38>> The purpose is not to draw the map

1:53:40tonight. The purpose is to establish the

1:53:42criteria we would like to see in the

1:53:43consideration. I disagree with Mr.

1:53:45Willingham that adding I'm sorry

1:53:47>> I disagree with Mr. rulingham that

1:53:49adding a consideration of acknowledging

1:53:50the base population is one of the things

1:53:52we look at undoes everything else in

1:53:54this document. It does not they all are

1:53:56still there. They are all full in full

1:53:58force. Um and in my opinion given the

1:54:03the impact we've had and the discussions

1:54:04we've had this is not about race. It's

1:54:06not about race and an outcome. It's

1:54:07about equitable population numbers in

1:54:11every ward. And for this community there

1:54:14is a piece of that that's a little

1:54:16different. same as college towns and

1:54:18other military towns. I just think it

1:54:20needs to be included in the

1:54:22considerations that we can look at.

1:54:24That's the point of this. And Miss

1:54:27Welch, um well, Mr. Mayor, um I'm going

1:54:30to move for an amendment by

1:54:32substitution. Um an amendment by

1:54:34substitution is a subsidiary motion and

1:54:36it will take precedent over the motion

1:54:39on the floor. Uh, it will need a second

1:54:41to be in effect, but I move for an

1:54:43amendment by substitution

1:54:45adding the 11th item that I read

1:54:48earlier, equal distribution of

1:54:49population aboard military installations

1:54:51between the wards to the extent

1:54:53possible. [snorts]

1:54:55>> That's my motion.

1:54:56>> I'm going to raise a point of order and

1:54:57object because that is a substantive

1:54:59motion that you're trying to overrule

1:55:01another substantive motion.

1:55:04>> It's allowed in Robert's rules.

1:55:06>> Could you say one more time what the

1:55:07motion is? um to add item 11 as I read

1:55:11with

1:55:14>> and and can you just read it out? Sorry.

1:55:16>> Equal distribution of population aboard

1:55:18military installations between the wards

1:55:20to the extent possible.

1:55:29This is germanine to the discussion and

1:55:31with a second

1:55:33would take precedence. It can be debated

1:55:36as any other motion.

1:55:42>> Are we going to need to research this or

1:55:44what?

1:55:45>> So,

1:55:45>> let me press on. I don't

1:55:47>> So, I'll tell you guys our local rules

1:55:49um talk about an amendment to a motion

1:55:52and that's in our local rule. Pull them

1:55:54out. You guys keep me on my toes. That's

1:55:57our local rule at um number 21, which is

1:56:00procedural motions. And it's subsection

1:56:04Speaker

1:56:06J to amend and that reads an amendment

1:56:09to a motion must be pertinent to the

1:56:12subject matter of the motion. An

1:56:14amendment is improper if adoption of the

1:56:17amended motion has the same effect as

1:56:20rejection of the original motion.

1:56:25So it's silent as to amendment by

1:56:28substitution.

1:56:30Um, and our local rules do say

1:56:32[clears throat]

1:56:32that whenever our local rules are

1:56:35silent.

1:56:37Let's see where's that at. Let's see.

1:56:44Reference to Robert's rules of orders.

1:56:45And I think that is the rule should be

1:56:4935. It says, "To the extent not provided

1:56:51for in these rules and to the extent it

1:56:53does not conflict with North Carolina

1:56:54law or the spirit of these rules, the

1:56:56council should refer to Robert's rules

1:56:58of order revised to answer unresolved

1:57:00procedural questions." So, I'm open to

1:57:03the to the debate between council of

1:57:06whether or not they believe that it's

1:57:07addressed in our local rule to amend or

1:57:11whether or not it goes toward letting

1:57:13Robert's rules pitch in there.

1:57:17We're asking you for a legal how we

1:57:20don't it's your legal

1:57:21>> Yeah. I think it's I think it's tricky

1:57:22because obviously I'm not necessarily

1:57:24the final arbiter of these things. I

1:57:26will say the way it reads to me, it

1:57:28reads as if we do have a local rule that

1:57:31addresses this specifically because the

1:57:33local rule says any motion to amend,

1:57:35whether or not it's amendment by

1:57:36substitution, says that it is improper

1:57:40if adoption of the amended motion has

1:57:43the same effect as a rejection of the

1:57:47original motion. And I apologize I

1:57:48wasn't paying close attention, but your

1:57:50original motion was to adopt the

1:57:53resolution as written. So there's a good

1:57:57argument to be made that a motion to

1:57:59amend that is in effect a denial or a

1:58:03rejection rather of a motion to adopt it

1:58:06just as written. So, I think it's

1:58:08probably safer to say Robert's rules

1:58:11would not apply because I think our

1:58:13local rule is more on point and I think

1:58:15our local rule is going to say that

1:58:17particular motion to amend has the same

1:58:19effect as rejecting his motion which was

1:58:22to adopt it exactly as written.

1:58:24>> When was the last time those local rules

1:58:26were revised?

1:58:27>> Well, it's been a minute a minute. Um,

1:58:28we revised them very recently for issues

1:58:32unrelated to some of this, but we have

1:58:35looked at maybe looking a little closer.

1:58:38>> What's the last date?

1:58:39>> So, the last date was um, April of 2026

1:58:42and that was when we talked about when

1:58:43we noticed meetings and I don't believe

1:58:47we addressed any of the rules of

1:58:48procedure. Okay. So,

1:58:50>> only because Robert rules of orders was

1:58:52revised in 2020.

1:58:54>> No, that's right.

1:58:57Exactly.

1:58:57>> So, what would you advise us legally to

1:58:59to do?

1:59:00>> I would say our local rule is on point

1:59:02and our local rule says that if there's

1:59:04a motion to amend that has the same

1:59:06effect as rejecting the motion on the

1:59:08table that it's improper. So, I believe

1:59:10Miss Edward's motion as she articulated

1:59:12is improper because it's a motion to go

1:59:15ahead and add on additional things and

1:59:17his motion was to adopt it as written.

1:59:20>> I disagree.

1:59:22>> That's fair. I definely there's rule

1:59:23there's room for argument. Yes, I would

1:59:25disagree. Um,

1:59:28it might have to be

1:59:29>> the amendment is to go along with what

1:59:33he says, but add

1:59:36the number 11.

1:59:38>> I'm not rejecting one,

1:59:39>> right? She's she's not rejecting what's

1:59:42there. She's asked that.

1:59:45[clears throat] Now, that addon

1:59:48needs to be considered in the vote.

1:59:50>> Um, but no one has seconded. So if it's

1:59:53not second, it's dead. Then we go back

1:59:56to the original vote.

1:59:57>> That's also right.

1:59:58>> Right. But it doesn't cancel out his as

2:00:01written. It's just basically him stating

2:00:04a motion to um that we vote on it and

2:00:07approve it. But the amendment was to add

2:00:09two. So if we add two, no one objected

2:00:12to anything else, then it's only one

2:00:14vote.

2:00:14>> There's a great argument to be made that

2:00:16way. I will tell you, I do not think

2:00:17it's exactly black and white. That's

2:00:19just what my advice would be is that it

2:00:21seems like and I don't know if you could

2:00:23look at it real fast what his motion

2:00:24was.

2:00:25>> Um he Mr. Mr. Willingham made the motion

2:00:29to um adopt the resolution as is.

2:00:34>> Okay. I I stand by my analysis but I

2:00:37also completely understand why there's

2:00:39an argument to be made toward yours as

2:00:41well.

2:00:41>> I believe it's go ahead. But if the si

2:00:44But if the base

2:00:47is part of the city,

2:00:50that's covered under number 10.

2:00:53>> That's part of the discussion

2:00:54>> and that's part of the discussion.

2:00:55>> But you wouldn't need to add a number 11

2:00:59because the base is already in the city.

2:01:03>> We should not be discussing this if

2:01:05there's no second.

2:01:06>> I also agree with I think that I think

2:01:08that there needs to be some research

2:01:10into this because, you know, I want to I

2:01:12want to make sure that we go forward

2:01:15the right way. I mean, if there's some

2:01:18if there's some confusion over what the

2:01:20actual uh action should be as far as

2:01:23whether to uh amend, not amend,

2:01:27whatever, I want it to be done right

2:01:29because I don't want nothing to come

2:01:30back as far as an appeal

2:01:33uh issue at a later time. I think we

2:01:36need this clarification. I think if we

2:01:38got council from the school of

2:01:39government or somewhere else that this

2:01:40would stand.

2:01:41>> Okay. So, the question's going to be

2:01:43when we're interpreting a second

2:01:45>> our local rule on a motion to amend

2:01:50the motion on the table, then we want a

2:01:53good interpretive opinion regarding

2:01:56whether or not a motion as stated by

2:01:59Miss Edwards would be

2:02:02a rejection of the original motion. I'm

2:02:04gonna tell you my opinion

2:02:07and I am your attorney is that Miss

2:02:10Edward's motion as she articulated it is

2:02:14a rejection of Mr. Willingham's motion

2:02:18as he articulated it and at this point

2:02:21it seems to me what's on the table right

2:02:24now is still just Mr. Willingham's

2:02:27motion. Well, there could be a

2:02:28procedural motion made to table this

2:02:30issue until such time that we do

2:02:33[snorts] get a opinion.

2:02:34>> Also correct.

2:02:35>> So I mean if a member of council wanted

2:02:37to make a motion to to the table.

2:02:40>> Also correct. Yeah.

2:02:41>> Correct.

2:02:42>> We have to close that this this is still

2:02:44on the table.

2:02:45>> Yes, that's also correct. So you could

2:02:47make a motion to defer this motion, but

2:02:50that motion is not on the table right

2:02:51now.

2:02:52>> So right now what we have is Miss

2:02:54Edward's motion. It has not yet been

2:02:56seconded.

2:02:58>> Well, I'll second it because I I do

2:03:00think it splitting up is the fairest way

2:03:01to do it.

2:03:03>> So, now we have a motion on the table.

2:03:05>> Motion.

2:03:08>> Second.

2:03:10>> What was your motion?

2:03:11>> Motion to table.

2:03:13>> Or defer. I don't know what the term is.

2:03:15I

2:03:15>> I want I want an honest opinion. An

2:03:17accurate opinion. Let me put it that

2:03:18way. An accurate opinion.

2:03:20>> Are you going to contact the school?

2:03:23I'll contact everybody in the lower

2:03:26[laughter]

2:03:26also reach out to North Carolina Central

2:03:29University [clears throat]

2:03:30with um Professor Joiner Sure as well.

2:03:33>> Um Miss Mackey, how do you read it?

2:03:36>> I'm I am not a procedural expert, but

2:03:39>> you I don't think we any of us are

2:03:41procedural experts, but I was going to

2:03:44call

2:03:45>> at the table. Yes,

2:03:46>> we have not yet. I'm waiting for this

2:03:48conversation to end here.

2:03:49>> Well, I guess we'll do that. Then we can

2:03:51get

2:03:53>> table second.

2:03:56>> Yeah, tables go straight to avoid that

2:03:57would go everything else. It's not

2:03:59president or anything else.

2:04:02>> Okay. So all those table motion with

2:04:06motion for now.

2:04:07>> I post. Okay.

2:04:14>> I just, you know, again, like I say, I

2:04:16want to make sure that we're doing

2:04:18things the proper way.

2:04:19>> Absolutely. halfway

2:04:21>> and we'll bring that back for the next

2:04:22meeting.

2:04:22>> That's right. Yeah. So, right now we

2:04:24have a motion to defer consideration.

2:04:27>> Perfect. And that's passed.

2:04:28>> It's been passed unanimous.

2:04:31>> Miss

2:04:32um ask if he can attend person.

2:04:36>> We could certainly ask.

2:04:37>> Thank you.

2:04:46>> Okay.

2:04:48Just the one city.

2:04:50>> One city, Mr.

2:04:53>> Yes, sir. I do have a couple things,

2:04:54mayor, that I would like to to share

2:04:57with you to get past the buying the car.

2:05:02>> That was a good analogy. That was a

2:05:04really good one.

2:05:04>> We came out with a hybrid pinto

2:05:08for the Tesla truck would be all right.

2:05:10>> No, it's a Pinto back. I mean, we have

2:05:13two items we want to share. We have had

2:05:15some uh some events locally and as a

2:05:18military host city, these are very

2:05:20important to our community in terms of

2:05:22the things that we recognize and the

2:05:24things that we remember. Uh for a lot of

2:05:26us, if we were able to attend this

2:05:27event, we had the 25th anniversary of

2:05:31the terrorist attacks that occurred on

2:05:32911 at the World Trade Center in the

2:05:34Pentagon and for the plane that was

2:05:38diverted to the field in Pennsylvania.

2:05:41For this year's ceremony that was

2:05:44presented by the Enso Civic Affairs uh

2:05:47committee, we recognize those people

2:05:50that were connected to North Carolina.

2:05:53So, this is different from the other

2:05:54ceremonies that we've had. So, we we

2:05:58were able to bring in partners from the

2:06:01county, from the school system, from the

2:06:04city to remember this horrific attack on

2:06:08our country. We did have performances by

2:06:11the Second Marine Division Band, by the

2:06:13Dixon High School Chamber Choir and

2:06:16Jacksonville High School Chamber

2:06:17Orchestra. We had a prayer from our

2:06:20youth, which you'll see in the top right

2:06:21corner, from Kai Albal, from

2:06:25Jacksonville Youth Council, North Side

2:06:27High School, and then we did have our

2:06:28joint honor guard, which included

2:06:30Jacksonville Police, Jacksonville Fire,

2:06:32and Enzo County

2:06:35Sheriff's Office.

2:06:36>> [clears throat]

2:06:37>> The ceremony is something where

2:06:40it's not something that we get excited

2:06:42about, but mayor is your commitment to

2:06:44never forget the people in our country

2:06:47who have provided that ultimate

2:06:49sacrifice. This is one of those areas

2:06:50where we honor those individuals every

2:06:53year to say that we understand the

2:06:55impact of what happened on that day. Uh,

2:06:58mayor, we also had on Friday, September

2:07:0118th, one week later, we had the

2:07:04prisoners of war missing and action

2:07:06remeance ceremony. Uh, this ceremony

2:07:08happened over in our memorial gardens as

2:07:10well. It was hosted by the Rolling

2:07:13Thunder chapter, NC5. uh and they they

2:07:17bring this back to us every year because

2:07:19they're focusing on the North Carolina

2:07:23individuals who are still missing and

2:07:25who are uh known as prisoners of war.

2:07:29This year the missing man table ceremony

2:07:31in the flame of freedom was held by a

2:07:33gold star mother. Uh this Miss

2:07:35Etchavaria, she's the sister of the key

2:07:37keynote speaker Ray Echevaria. Their

2:07:40father has been missing in action since

2:07:421966. Uh so for this ceremony uh a lot

2:07:46of remembrance and a unique community

2:07:50opportunity to

2:07:53honor those individuals who have served

2:07:55our country. Pledge of Allegiance you

2:07:57can see was led by our scout Sophia

2:07:59Jenning and the national anthem by Miss

2:08:01Paige Jameson. Uh so for us mayor these

2:08:04are events that mean a lot to our

2:08:06community and to those that are

2:08:07involved. We just say thank you to

2:08:09everyone who can participate in the

2:08:11events because it is very important to

2:08:13us to remember those who have served and

2:08:16who may still be missing missing in

2:08:18action.

2:08:19>> Thank you, mayor.

2:08:20>> Let's go ahead and do our reports now.

2:08:22Start with you.

2:08:23>> Awesome. Yes, ma'am.

2:08:24>> Um I don't have much, but bear with me.

2:08:28I just want to give a shout out to the

2:08:30last day of Constitution Week. So, um I

2:08:33was fortunate to uh work with the sons,

2:08:35daughters, and children of the American

2:08:38Revolution, uh the chapters that are

2:08:41here. And um we did the proclamation out

2:08:44there at the water fountain. Um great

2:08:46turnout. It was a definitely a cool

2:08:48thing to do. Um I want to give a shout

2:08:50out to uh the nonprofit as well as the

2:08:53local churches who had suicide awareness

2:08:56programs.

2:08:58also um the replacement of headstones

2:09:03that took place at the George W.

2:09:06Humphrey Cemetery. This is something I

2:09:08know it's a private cemetery, but

2:09:10Deborah Georgees and her crew have been

2:09:12working diligently in uncovering

2:09:14um what was completely buried. Um and we

2:09:18had the lovely Miss Glattis Hill come

2:09:21out. Um I believe she is the eldest

2:09:24person that was displaced from the

2:09:26campus area come out um and have a few

2:09:30words. So um I just wanted to make note

2:09:32that there are definitely individuals

2:09:35who are um going out there making sure

2:09:37our history is known. Um also a shout

2:09:42out to New Beginners Christian Center

2:09:44for Breakfast Saturday for the unhoused

2:09:46at the Enslo community outreach. Uh

2:09:48there was a great uh turnout and we

2:09:51definitely had some individuals uh that

2:09:54worked street outreach that was local.

2:09:56So uh I'm I'm looking forward to what

2:09:59they're going to be doing. They're

2:10:00looking at trying to have a meeting here

2:10:01in Jacksonville. Um,

2:10:05also I just want to thank uh I'll take a

2:10:07page from Melanie and thank the um

2:10:10environmental and appearance committee

2:10:12for the work that they're continually

2:10:13doing around the clock here um in

2:10:15Jacksonville and making sure they're

2:10:17keeping up the appearance. Um I turned

2:10:20in a couple of things myself and they

2:10:21were fixed immediately. So I'm very

2:10:23grateful for that. Um and again shout

2:10:26out to sanitation and transportation.

2:10:28We're having that construction going on

2:10:30right there on Western and Common North

2:10:33and not once have I seen traffic

2:10:36diverted because of what's happening

2:10:38there. Everything is moved off the road

2:10:39accordingly. Uh roads are clean. So the

2:10:43process has been going very well. Uh

2:10:45thank you to the mayor for giving his

2:10:47comments at the Maf Point Day event.

2:10:51Definitely a great event. We were

2:10:52blessed with some awesome individuals.

2:10:55We had none other than Major Capers

2:10:56there, but we also had gunnery Sergeant

2:10:58Hooper. And I know that this was brought

2:11:00up before, but some of you may not know

2:11:03that Gunnery Sergeant Hooper passed

2:11:08>> um at the right age of 98 years old. He

2:11:11did just recently have a birthday, so he

2:11:13did pass. And um we're celebrating life

2:11:18with Apostle A. Mullen turning 65,

2:11:21Apostle Ernest Perry turning 75, and

2:11:24very close friend of mine, Anthony

2:11:26Proctor, turning 54. Um, but I just make

2:11:28those notices that, um, I strive to get

2:11:32around in the community just to see what

2:11:34those little personal things that are

2:11:36taking place. So, um, I will be spending

2:11:38the rest of the week with the board of

2:11:40realtors or members of the board of

2:11:41realators at the Southeastern Land

2:11:43Conference. Looking forward to that.

2:11:45That's all I have. Thank you.

2:11:48>> Well, first uh I want to talk about one

2:11:51place is they had their dedication and

2:11:53it was a very nice ceremony. That's a

2:11:55very nice building, but uh it needs to

2:11:58be a nice building to to help those kids

2:12:00heal. So, um

2:12:03thank this the the city council for

2:12:06supporting those efforts um because that

2:12:10is our future. And the other thing is

2:12:12the board of realators, they had a

2:12:14community conversation, a lot of

2:12:16conversation about uh about how how um

2:12:20we can help them and they can help us

2:12:24provide for affordable housing. Um a lot

2:12:27of lot of discussion about that, you

2:12:29know, and um and then some discussion

2:12:31about growth. I mean, the uh the way the

2:12:35sewer line is that goes through

2:12:37Southwest area, House Bill 116

2:12:42um

2:12:44sort of prevents us from growing in that

2:12:46area where we can provide sewer service

2:12:49and water service for those residents.

2:12:52So

2:12:54hopefully when they do the fix that

2:12:56they'll look at that and and try to to

2:12:59fix that so that we can continue to grow

2:13:02and continue to provide quality services

2:13:05to folks uh in our community.

2:13:08[snorts]

2:13:09Council member Washington.

2:13:10>> Oh, good.

2:13:12Mayor,

2:13:13>> uh, it's been a busy few weeks or couple

2:13:16weeks, hasn't it? Um, in conjunction

2:13:18with the 911 ceremony, which I was at

2:13:20and able to participate in, um, we've

2:13:22had a wonderful, uh, Star Stripes and

2:13:25Sounds concert from our very own United

2:13:27States Marine Corps Second Division

2:13:29band. They lifted the roof off the

2:13:32church. It was amazing. They were joined

2:13:34by the band of America's Few, which is

2:13:36an all veteran uh band that had uh

2:13:39service members from the Vietnam era on

2:13:42forward through every combat initiative

2:13:44that we've seen since. It was a

2:13:46beautiful, beautiful thing to see them

2:13:47on the stage. They each played a couple

2:13:49a few pieces and then they joined

2:13:51together and paired the last set all

2:13:52together. I don't know how they were all

2:13:54up there without someone sitting on

2:13:55someone else's lap, but they got them in

2:13:57like sardines and but the sound was

2:13:59amazing and beautiful. Um the the

2:14:01members of our community that were able

2:14:03to come really enjoyed it. I did um in

2:14:05particular having a daughter who plays

2:14:07French horn. Yeah.

2:14:10Following I was also able to go um to

2:14:13the SBN startup showdown kickoff and

2:14:15awards assembly. Well, it's the

2:14:17inaugural showdown. This was a statewide

2:14:19initiative by the small business center

2:14:20and the North Carolina College

2:14:21Foundation. Um and I was privileged to

2:14:24work with them on their startup process

2:14:25a little bit. Uh but then the first

2:14:28place winner for the state of North

2:14:30Carolina, statewide champion, is an

2:14:32entrepreneur who originally was here in

2:14:34Jacksonville. He's now moved to Holly

2:14:35Ridge. But um Dan Spangler was the grand

2:14:39prize winner. He won $30,000 at this

2:14:42small business pitch competition to put

2:14:44toward his new endeavor. So

2:14:46congratulations to Dan Spangler for

2:14:47bringing home the bacon. Well, it's more

2:14:49like uh what do they call the bacon for

2:14:51dogs?

2:14:52>> Beacons. begging was more like Beggan

2:14:54because he has a dog industry

2:14:56background. He works in the pet industry

2:14:57and he's got a new invention related to

2:14:59that. So, it was Beggan strips he

2:15:01brought home, but he brought home 30,000

2:15:02of them. That was pretty awesome to see.

2:15:04Um I was able to attend the P MI

2:15:07observation and was at Diamonds and

2:15:08Denim, which was fun. And then last

2:15:10night we had the um Jacksonville

2:15:12Military Affairs Committee service

2:15:14member of the month. And then this

2:15:15morning um Councilwoman Smith and

2:15:18Councilman Yero and I along with Mr.

2:15:21Massie were all present at the uh

2:15:23community conversation with the

2:15:25Jacksonville Board of Realtors which

2:15:27they do quarterly and it's um it's a

2:15:29really beneficial conversation because

2:15:31we have um you know obviously it's

2:15:33around housing initiatives and other

2:15:35things like that but there's other

2:15:36things that are brought to the table and

2:15:37you have city county every other

2:15:39municipality in the county usually as

2:15:41well as the sheriff's department and

2:15:43others bringing updates and concerns.

2:15:45This is what we're seeing. This is what

2:15:46we're seeing. This is where we have

2:15:47challenges. It's just an opportunity to

2:15:49do some, you know, cross-pollination and

2:15:51sharing of information and and a good

2:15:53way to work toward cooperative solutions

2:15:55wherever we can find the opportunity.

2:15:57So, thanks to the board of realtors for

2:15:58hosting that community conversation.

2:16:00It's very valuable. Um, and I enjoyed

2:16:02it. That is all, sir.

2:16:03>> Mr. S, happy to be here. Sorry I missed

2:16:06the last two meetings. Glad to be back.

2:16:10>> Welcome back.

2:16:13much.

2:16:13>> I just wanted to inform council that we

2:16:15had a wonderful pool of applicants for

2:16:17the second attorney position. I

2:16:19genuinely wish I could hire every person

2:16:21that applied. They're all great. We had

2:16:24a round of phone interviews yesterday

2:16:25and today and we'll be conducting

2:16:27in-person interviews next week. So, I

2:16:29hope to introduce you guys to the second

2:16:31attorney here shortly.

2:16:33>> Mr. R, do you have any other?

2:16:35>> No, sir.

2:16:35>> Okay. With that, I would take a motion

2:16:38to sir.

2:16:39>> Second. Second. All

2:16:40>> in favor?

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