2026-10-27 - ZAP Hearings with Evans Administration Day 2

00:01The second day of the

00:03Since we have everyone in place,

00:06to please call the roll.

00:10Council member Gruber.

00:11Here.

00:12Council member Leslie Smith.

00:14Here. Council member.

00:16Council member. Martin. Here.

00:19Council member. Patterson.

00:20Council member. Smith.

00:22Vice president. Harris. Here.

00:24President. Melinda's here.

00:26Thank you.

00:29And council member.

00:30Monroe.

00:32Council member

00:34I don't know if that happens.

00:36I wasn't in this. Probably.

00:39Everyone's here.

00:40The whole gang is here.

00:42Welcome,

00:44I'd like to note

00:45today's hearings

00:47and WXXI is broadcasting

00:50To my colleagues this evening,

00:53with questions

00:53from council on the second

00:54half of the zoning code articles

00:57This includes the following

00:59Standards

01:01Accessory structures.

01:02Off street parking and loading

01:05Review

01:07Zoning

01:10Nonconformity.

01:11Enforcement and general definiti

01:16Following the sections,

01:18and conclude the evening

01:20from Council on the zoning map

01:22Additionally,

01:23for questions on any section

01:27Finally, we will conclude

01:29by addressing additional items

01:30not specifically listed

01:33with a specific focus

01:36which were brought up

01:38And by discussing the next steps

01:42I would like to commend

01:45for the conversation yesterday.

01:47Appreciated.

01:48Again, this was not a,

01:51to put on the record.

01:51It was a dialog

01:53And I appreciate,

01:55and the dialog that was had.

01:57I'd encourage anyone who,

02:02know what

02:04It's right there on the City

02:08probably

02:09But certainly there will post it

02:12over the course

02:14And I look forward to another,

02:18and dialog about,

02:21probably the most the single

02:23that we have to pass

02:25before we dive into, section,

02:30I want to offer the deputy mayor

02:31any opportunity

02:34I echo everything that you said

02:37to another productive day

02:39So let's get to it. Great.

02:41So we are on,

02:49direct

02:53Should have been more prepared.

02:55But here we are,

02:59Don't know what it is

03:00but something

03:04Thank you.

03:05175 in the PDF

03:08apply to all districts.

03:10Let's stick here for a while.

03:12I'm going

03:15But I'd like to begin with

03:20and the buildings listed on

03:21the Citywide

03:23So I'd like to start,

03:25just with an understanding

03:29If you can share

03:33Sure, absolutely.

03:34Thank you, Council member.

03:35And just to provide

03:37before I answer that question,

03:40that the existing code

03:42Designated Buildings of Historic

03:47Many of council

03:50It was a list that was,

03:54zoning code that came out of

03:56a survey done in 1985,

04:00The easiest way to explain

04:03More or less

04:06or collections of buildings

04:09protected historically any way

04:13preservation districts or any,

04:17But they still may,

04:20which have, some sort

04:23In the city,

04:24decided at that time

04:28retaining those buildings,

04:30So fast forward to tonight.

04:33Buildings

04:35Historic Resources

04:39title of designated buildings

04:43And I'll talk a little bit

04:44Gruber's question

04:47Back in, I believe 2016, the,

04:52engaged

04:57agreements

04:59in order to re survey the city,

05:04This was done over a series of,

05:08to 6 years. It was done

05:10Certainly a lot has changed

05:14And that's how this list

05:16So the properties on this,

05:21properties that are either,

05:24designated

05:27Nor are they properties that

05:32They are outside of that.

05:34In terms of what it means

05:38There are three requirements

05:42in 13.2 page 166.

05:45If you meet

05:48to the building

05:51they are looking to submit

05:53a building

05:54and they do not deviate from

05:58It is an as of. Right.

06:00Building permit able

06:03to deviate from one of these,

06:07It would go to the,

06:10for review and approval.

06:12Now, I should note that

06:13the existing DVS deviations

06:17referred

06:19and it was determined

06:22Also based on public feedback

06:25the expertise

06:26regarding properties

06:29is really

06:31and not the Zoning Board

06:33the Zoning Board of Appeals,

06:34which focuses more on deviations

06:38So that's

06:39about how the list came to be.

06:40Thanks.

06:41I have,

06:41several

06:43but I just want to pause

06:45I noticed we don't

06:48Is that.

06:51Okay.

06:54Okay.

07:00Okay.

07:00Thank you.

07:02So I appreciate all that

07:05Doctor Simmons, can you just,

07:09who did the survey?

07:11It was it. City staff.

07:13So the the surveys were done

07:16Okay.

07:17And then the list was reviewed

07:20and fine tuned by city staff

07:24I talked a lot yesterday

07:26from Rochester 2034, 2034.

07:28Of course, being the policies,

07:31There is a, historic resources

07:35that talked about the need

07:38pursuing it, maybe just in a,

07:41So that's where that came from.

07:43What what was the outreach

07:45done to the individuals

07:48That I would get back to you

07:50but the expectation

07:53it wouldn't have been city staff

07:55It would have been landmark

07:57Yes. That is that is correct.

07:59This question comes up

08:02that are also, for example,

08:05A property owner

08:08and they come to the building

08:10And he said,

08:12Preservation Board

08:14My realtor didn't disclose that

08:15or my attorney didn't

08:17So there is definitely,

08:21Future state for publishing

08:24accurately online

08:28If you go through

08:30statement

08:30in the final environmental

08:31impact statement,

08:32there's actually some,

08:33information on that about the

08:38Should the list

08:41Yeah. I mean, I've,

08:43I've only lived in preservation

08:45And, you know, those are

08:47people are moving into places

08:50And yes, there's some

08:52to figure out what those laws

08:54But this

08:57for people who have maybe lived

09:00And I'd like to have

09:02a very clear sense of how they

09:06So, during the course

09:09there must have been

09:12owners of, of these properties

09:15of the properties, too.

09:16And I'd just like to hear

09:19That's truly word for word.

09:21I'd like to know

09:22landmark was in that process.

09:24We can get back to you on that.

09:25Thanks. Now, I'm

09:29I, I'm super,

09:31sympathetic to the need

09:35in our community.

09:36I, I believe in that.

09:37I believe that a pres board

09:40or the preservation districts

09:46include

09:47every single property

09:50But I have to say that

09:51I'm concerned about this list

09:55One is the list itself.

09:56I went through

09:59and there's a number of things

10:01I mean, I'll send this to you

10:04There's a number of things that

10:05truly don't make sense to me,

10:10I don't know how a vacant parcel

10:13from doing some of these things.

10:15I noticed that

10:19a library that the city closed

10:23I think we would be,

10:25it would we would be incredibly

10:30if there was any desire to

10:35And we probably shouldn't

10:39Oh, it is, but it's burned.

10:40Documents. The list was burned

10:42All the more reason

10:44Right. No, I, I,

10:46So because the list was compiled

10:51fires happen, as council

10:55But we'll we'll definitely

10:56There's also properties on there

11:00in the 20 tens.

11:02So there's, there's I have

11:04which is why I want.

11:06And I'll happily submit those to

11:09But on top of that,

11:12even for the properties

11:13should be on the list with what

11:16So I want to test those things

11:19just with some questions.

11:20Certainly.

11:2113 points

11:25Totally understood that

11:26we don't want these properties

11:2813.2 be removal, covering

11:32of significant

11:34which first,

11:35I don't know who defines

11:37architectural feature is, but

11:40including but not limited to

11:44So if a homeowner

11:47with original wood cladding,

11:52to replace

11:54to replace some of the cladding

11:57they essentially would be

12:00any kind of vinyl siding

12:04That is correct.

12:07So, just to take

12:12Your question is correct.

12:13They would not be able to apply

12:15without,

12:17by way of the preservation

12:19The other piece

12:21that I think

12:23we talk often

12:25And one of the things

12:28and we heard from the community

12:32properties built in 2010.

12:34Aside, historic properties

12:35are in fact

12:36a housing type

12:37that are not being recreated

12:38just because they simply cannot

12:40And so if we are able

12:43that is somehow, historic

12:47doesn't have,

12:49to try to appeal to residents,

12:52So I think there is a benefit

12:54But,

12:56in answer to your question,

12:58a, deviation from it

13:01In your scenario

13:03And my assumption

13:06the preservation Board is

13:07a whole lot of reluctance

13:09the opportunity to put on

13:13So one of the other things

13:14that is in the code is that it

13:19that properties are

13:21that are in preservation

13:23There's

13:25that are, I'll say, lesser

13:29of appropriateness application

13:32and preservation

13:33And those standards

13:36Yes, they're

13:39where,

13:40Bear with me

13:42You can follow up with me

13:43I don't want to take

13:44so we'll capture it in

13:46So somewhere in the

13:48in the latter sections of

13:51and review approval sources.

13:54That's correct. Okay.

13:55And then my, my other concern,

13:58section in particular

14:01So my understanding currently

14:05district process

14:06is it's specifically a windows

14:08This is everywhere.

14:10No, the preservation district,

14:11procedures

14:13So this would this means that

14:16to change the,

14:20the window, the window placement

14:23on the back of their house,

14:26get Preservation Board approval

14:29Yes, based on those lesser

14:31That's correct.

14:33As part of architectural

14:36on historic properties

14:39from a, oftentimes

14:42So that's the reason

14:44prohibition on, changes.

14:48And again, we don't, you

14:50how these individuals

14:51were communicated

14:54someone who lives on

14:58may at this point

15:02that their house

15:05Yes, that is correct.

15:06And I would

15:07I would say back that

15:08that also know you're not,

15:10enclose their porch,

15:13So yes, it's true,

15:16important to note

15:19that people are subject to that

15:22Sure,

15:24Well,

15:26like many of these

15:28The porch enclosure is a is a

15:30is a reality

15:32that that governs correct

15:34in many of the properties

15:35on this list are a carryover

15:38How many new properties

15:39I think the list is probably

15:41smaller, but I can confirm

15:43You think this list is smaller

15:44than the

15:47That would be

15:48my inkling, but I will confirm

15:51Okay, I'd appreciate that. Yeah,

15:53And finally,

15:55Then I'll turn it

15:57Is there so people

16:01there is a financial incentive

16:05through the state

16:08Is there a financial incentive

16:11for these individuals

16:14If they are also,

16:16listed on the state

16:18Yes. I'll focus on the state.

16:20So the New York State

16:22Recreation

16:26several programs for,

16:31I'm not an expert in it,

16:33rebates that you get for either

16:36or if it's a property you live

16:39to 20% back on work

16:43So there is an incentive. Yes.

16:45And that was discussed

16:46as part of Rochester

16:47but only if you're listed

16:50There were

16:52that are in our zone

16:55Now, this survey

16:58which therefore would mean that

17:00they get no financial incentive,

17:02but do have some things

17:05to make improvements

17:06Is that possibly true?

17:07It is possibly true,

17:09look into that as well, because

17:12Council Vice President.

17:14Thank you, Chair Gruber.

17:16I like to follow up questions

17:20preservation districts and,

17:24the difference between

17:25and not necessarily for me,

17:27but just for the audience

17:30district and national registry

17:34Sure, sure.

17:35So the city has

17:38that one is a local level

17:41is a federal level

17:44The key piece

17:45I think that folks

17:46is that

17:47properties that are part

17:48of one of the city's

17:51the jurisdiction for changes

17:54lies with the Rochester

17:57which is a local board

17:59citizens, city residents

18:04informational purposes,

18:05those preservation

18:08and those properties

18:10Oh three code to this code.

18:12They were just carried over.

18:14And I will also note that

18:17local government or CLG,

18:21with Shippo, which is the State

18:24they have reviewed the proposed

18:28all things preservation

18:30to keep our CLG status because

18:34And they have confirmed

18:35that they have no issues with it

18:37So I do think

18:39because

18:40But I think the best thing

18:41for folks to understand

18:45district boundaries

18:46districts are not changes,

18:50So I think that's probably

18:52to understand

18:54I think I don't want to speak

18:57I think there's,

19:00It could be financial,

19:01Member Gruber said, or other.

19:03but from a local level,

19:06Board has the jurisdiction

19:09So for the National Register

19:12how does this that

19:15Are they

19:18There could

19:19be properties that are listed,

19:22that are part of this survey,

19:27answer.

19:28And the reason

19:29for that is this, survey,

19:32that's part of

19:34local properties and like,

19:38Look at what we have, regardless

19:39of whether or not it was on

19:44Thank you.

19:44Thank you for for,

19:48I'll yield

19:51Thank you.

19:53Council member Leslie smith.

19:54Anything?

19:55I'm 13.

20:02Okay.

20:03I know we talked a little bit

20:06But I want to know

20:09demolishing legacy buildings.

20:13And will neighborhood contacts

20:16or special permit hearing first?

20:18Can you clarify?

20:20Can you clarify what you mean

20:23I guess I'm referring

20:26So if they if if there is a need

20:31for whatever reason.

20:32So the answer to that question

20:33would be I'm going to have

20:36The answer to the question

20:37would be dependent

20:40And if it has any designation.

20:42So if the property is,

20:44the power's building right

20:47that is a city designated

20:49Long ago, it was designated

20:52In order to demolish that,

20:54to make an application to the,

20:56Preservation Board and residents

21:00And the official neighborhood

21:02The same is true

21:04with any preservation

21:07In the same would be true

21:10listed on the Citywide

21:13If the building you're

21:16in a preservation district

21:20landmark or not on this list,

21:24likely not be neighborhood

21:27Okay.

21:31My next question.

21:32Rules for sheds

21:36and garages must sit 20ft back.

21:39Were these changes intended?

21:41Yeah.

21:43So the attached

21:46garage, model

21:49difficult, just based

21:54Typical city

21:56And in order

21:58with an attached garage,

22:00But if, in fact,

22:03that has the lot with in order

22:06it was a carryover

22:09to set the setback.

22:11I believe the existing code

22:13And the reason for that was

22:15to take the focus off the garage

22:19of it, and more of a

22:22There's a lot of,

22:24if you Google snout houses,

22:28There's a lot of,

22:29information about that

22:32of a structure actually

22:33being on the residential piece

22:37So being able to site it back

22:40wall of the house,

22:44The other thing

22:46where the house is

22:48it allows more cars

22:50without overhanging

22:51creating issues

22:54pedestrians, etc. etc..

22:57Can exceptions be made?

22:59Absolutely.

23:00So we talked yesterday

23:02And there

23:03oftentimes are scenarios

23:05I have this unique circumstance.

23:07I understand I fall into this.

23:08That's

23:10to apply for, a variance

23:13I would imagine, like,

23:16Yes. Yes.

23:18And that's a

23:19And many corner

23:21So it's not applicable

23:23But if someone does

23:26Absolutely.

23:26We can

23:27and that's, that's

23:28one of those

23:30that the Zoning Board of Appeals

23:32for an applicant

23:34Yeah.

23:36He has a corner lot

23:38So he's my neighbor.

23:40Let's see, if he would love

23:45Yeah.

23:47If residential

23:49what is the plan for dense

23:53for space and visitors

23:59we have some neighbors

24:00who listen to the police scanner

24:03you know, come across folks

24:06and things like that.

24:07So how how often is this going

24:10And what's the process for of

24:14Councilmember can we can

24:17Oh, because we have a

24:18we have a whole section

24:20These are do you have

24:23Thank you.

24:23Councilmember lupine.

24:26Yeah.

24:27I just have, a question

24:31The addition of the LED

24:36use outlining doors,

24:41That's like every corner

24:44which can you point to which

24:47D number 413 eight 169.

24:53And with you?

24:54Yes. So what is the plan

24:57to the business owners?

24:59Yes. Yeah. So many of these.

25:01This is a good question.

25:02Many of these, prohibitions

25:08The unfortunate part is

25:11complaint basis.

25:12But we talked a little bit

25:13about this yesterday

25:16training for the code

25:17which are responsible

25:19for also carrying out

25:21In terms of an actual plan

25:25The idea would be to work

25:29who issue business permits

25:31which they are doing now.

25:33It just will need to be

25:35to be able to say, here's

25:37These are the rules and regs

25:40Yeah, I know there's

25:43I would imagine

25:44since those lighting staffs

25:47There's certain ones that do

25:51blink or rope

25:52lights that you see around you.

25:55I know you're

25:57I'm talking about four.

25:57This is a new addition,

26:00so they would have got you.

26:01It's an update to that, right?

26:02Because the LED wouldn't

26:05So that might be handled

26:07when they're going

26:09Correct. When the administrators

26:10are working with the business

26:12Okay. Thank you.

26:15Prisoner -13 Council.

26:17Council member Martin. Yes.

26:24Around the,

26:26preservation districts and

26:29now, having the zoning board

26:34and putting that into the hands

26:38Can you talk to me about.

26:40I understand

26:42However, I am concerned about

26:45usurping this public board's

26:48So can you just talk to me

26:50about the reasoning

26:50and if there are any other

26:52across New York State

26:55Yeah.

26:56So I think, it's important

26:58the notification process

27:01board is the same

27:03So in terms of,

27:07if you will, was switched

27:09because the preservation Board

27:10has more expertise

27:12on, historic properties

27:15features of properties.

27:16The public notification process

27:20is the same

27:22as it is for the planning

27:24Okay. That's helpful.

27:25Does that help?

27:25That really does help.

27:27Concern alleviated.

27:29I think that's

27:33Councilmember Monroe.

27:39So just for some clarity,

27:41when, Council Member

27:44about, the Landmarks Society

27:47So they did their work

27:50designated buildings

27:56Thank you. Yeah. They were not.

27:59There wasn't

28:03for this proposed zoning code,

28:06Or we're

28:10Well, it's a new document

28:12that was done for them.

28:15Does that does

28:17that when they did said no.

28:20When the Landmarks Society

28:258 to 10 years

28:27to come up with this list,

28:29the list

28:32It's called the Mac survey.

28:34And I don't know a lot

28:36about it, but it was

28:40That was codified as part of the

28:45Okay.

28:45Because I

28:47what's the what the okay.

28:49Well so one was just seeing

28:52last version I had ever seen.

28:54I got to answer there

28:58If you if there's really. Yes.

29:00If there's been any changes.

29:03There's definitely changes.

29:06I believe it's the either

29:10Avenue is currently

29:13I'm not sure there's anyone

29:16a building like that

29:19building of historic value.

29:20But the reason it is one

29:23oh three code was done in 1985,

29:25and then there was an update

29:28and then it wasn't

29:30where you couldn't demolish.

29:32So a lot of work was done

29:33to properties across the city

29:35between that 1985 period,

29:38where the list existed.

29:39But it wasn't

29:41It didn't have any teeth.

29:42So the list got codified

29:45shouldn't have been there.

29:48So what

29:50to want to add

29:54So these restrictions

29:57lesser than the DBA

30:00The current code requires

30:04actually be true divided light,

30:06meaning separate windows

30:08within the munton

30:10which is the separation

30:12Whereas the proposed code

30:17I believe it says, mimicking

30:20So it it's it's lesser

30:26understanding of the fact

30:28are often

30:30but also that balance test

30:34slightly more than a property

30:37by any other means.

30:39So that was the justification

30:40for it

30:43but not to the point of a full

30:47So I live

30:48in a neighborhood that does have

30:52Okay.

30:53And you know, I've never

30:55additional,

30:59restrictions.

31:00Yeah, that there were

31:01additional restrictions

31:04I know when we were doing

31:06there's a lot of discussions,

31:07discussion

31:10if we were going to allow vinyl

31:11And I think in the end,

31:13that we would allow vinyl.

31:15Not in this particular set up,

31:19around the city. Right.

31:21Yeah.

31:22At the same time that I think

31:24not to have chain link

31:27So those types of things.

31:29Yeah.

31:33So I, I just don't get the sense

31:35that people in my area

31:40or experienced

31:45on what they're doing,

31:48But rather that this list

31:54get additional financial support

31:57through that rebate

31:59so that we could work on

32:02Yeah. So I think two things.

32:04I think your first point,

32:06Groover is about notification,

32:08Talking about neighbors

32:10And your second point is, yes,

32:13I would say, tremendous resource

32:15for people that may not know

32:18in order to do

32:22So are you saying you

32:22would do notifications or,

32:26we're going

32:27Yeah, I think it's something

32:29how we how

32:31owners about it,

32:33we'll, we'll look into

32:38And then were you saying in here

32:40there is the distinction

32:42between what the Preservation

32:45at for properties here

32:50as opposed to the preservation

32:52That's correct.

32:55And then.

33:10Sorry, I kind of put my notes

33:11all over the place.

33:17I guess that's it for now.

33:19Councilman Patterson.

33:25So just some points

33:28Maybe you've already answered

33:30I don't know. So.

33:35So the Citywide

33:38when we've been talking

33:40and who gets it,

33:42we've been asking

33:44notification surveys

33:47Landmarks decided for us.

33:48Yeah. 13.2.

33:53it seems like there

33:54there is in excess

34:00And it sounds like

34:01there may well be

34:04but what is the plan

34:08Can you be more specific?

34:09Well, I mean, are we so prime

34:12Pulaski libraries on near

34:14been gone for quite some time.

34:16You know, have we have

34:18Yeah.

34:19You're like, well, just hey,

34:20still a building

34:22I mean, have we have

34:24It would need to be done again.

34:25The inherent difficulty

34:27of a multi-year project

34:29where we're attempting to do

34:32we live in a live environment

34:34where, for example, the Pulaski

34:37We would need to take a look

34:38at that and,

34:40make sure it gets amended. What?

34:41We didn't want to do

34:43in April for the public to see,

34:44and then start changing it

34:47So I think that's an

34:51wherever council lands with Zap,

34:52with the council office

34:55Okay.

34:55Well, but it seems as though

34:57part of the plan

34:59When we adopt the zap.

35:01Yes. You would.

35:02What I'm saying, though,

35:06Well, okay.

35:07But how do we

35:09adopt a list

35:12That's what I'm saying.

35:13We would come up with a process

35:14to make sure

35:16Have we actually notified

35:20owners on this list that they

35:26No. But what I am going

35:28is, Council Member Gruber's

35:32what the outreach that was done

35:34when the list was being created

35:36and was it

35:38owners

35:39Well, that's

35:43No, the answer to your question

35:45Okay.

35:46So what is the plan

35:49all of the property owners

35:53That's the follow up question.

35:54The other thing

35:56Okay. Thank you. Welcome.

35:58Council member Smith.

36:04I'm just curious what assistance

36:06will help low income homeowners,

36:10be in compliance

36:12If you have any,

36:14can you be more specific

36:16you might be referring to?

36:18Homeowners are on this.

36:22List.

36:23Okay.

36:24And they are required.

36:29Is there any

36:29assistance that will help.

36:33So the zoning code doesn't

36:35code doesn't have provisions

36:39But if the property

36:42there are, contacts

36:46Preservation Office

36:49residents

36:52I believe it's 20% back on,

36:56renovations to the property.

37:01I know there were a few

37:04I'd like to ask people

37:06One follow up.

37:08Councilmember Monroe.

37:12So this is, again, getting back

37:14and the the answer that you had.

37:18So as I'm asking why now?

37:20And you did talk about how,

37:23this is less

37:32Is that the entire

37:33reason that then

37:35in these

37:37I guess I'm wondering

37:40you think that this needed to be

37:44You're talking about the change

37:46I'm talking

37:48about the change to the whole

37:51Oh, just because the list

37:54And as part of Rochester 2034,

37:56there was a directive

37:59incorporating it

38:02So not so much

38:04It could be updated.

38:05But why the change with these

38:09They're not

38:11They're the same

38:15The reason for the slightly

38:18the results of, conversations

38:22When I say conversations

38:23I mean, the office, zoning

38:26all day, every day about these,

38:29types of properties and what

38:30they're seeing

38:33and what is it

38:35to do while

38:36also recognizing they are not,

38:39So being overly restrictive on

38:43a landmark or a, preservation

38:46why we landed

38:49Okay.

38:50And then I'll submit

38:52Perfect. Yep.

38:53Thanks.

38:54One follow up

38:57So I have a question

39:00Why are only file and rabbits,

39:07money are allowed

39:11Is there a page number

39:14Yes. There is one second.

39:17I'm page 173,

39:21pump 13.11.

39:27We will get back to you on that.

39:28We relied on,

39:29both the consultant as well

39:30as the urban ag community

39:34So let us follow up

39:36it, and I will just add,

39:37there is pushback

39:40ag community on this. Okay.

39:43Thank you. Yeah.

39:44No. That's great. Thank you

39:48Yes. Thank you.

39:50I want to follow up

39:52one more time,

39:54What list does this in the hard.

39:57Yeah, right.

39:58So just out of curiosity,

40:02So we're going to get the answer

40:03on whether or not folks

40:07But if there is a property

40:09or a property

40:12is there a process to contest

40:14whether or not you want to be

40:18if you have not been on the list

40:20Anticipated this question.

40:22We are working on an answer.

40:23We will get back to you

40:25Thank you.

40:26Thanks.

40:29One last thing. On 13.

40:31First,

40:32just a kudos on on the,

40:35on the residential conversions

40:38I think the, the clarity in

40:41gonna prove to be super helpful.

40:43So kudos on that.

40:44I just want to, pinpoint my,

40:48the questions I like.

40:49I like in writing on 13 to

40:53I one of the things

40:56Matt, is that there's

40:59you there's less properties

41:03So I'd like I'd like to just

41:06kind of show the 23 list,

41:10I'd also like to understand

41:13and the current code,

41:16to how this language is less

41:20And finally, I'd like an answer

41:25what is quote,

41:26significant

41:30which, if I know historians,

41:33there will be no consensus over

41:36So I'd like to know how there's

41:40Yeah,

41:41Okay. Let's move on to 14.

41:43I'll go down the line again.

41:44We'll do 14 by itself

41:47Council member,

41:49Harris.

41:51I'll yield for now.

41:53I'm still working on it.

41:54Councilmember

41:56Counter-Revolution. Yes.

42:00For, accessory dwelling units,

42:04the idea is to keep them owner

42:07So the scenario where an owner

42:12How do we,

42:14you know, if they sell it to

42:17the house,

42:18So it's it's it's largely

42:21This comes up now

42:26requirements, and I'm trying

42:28I'm coming up short,

42:29but, a lot of what ends

42:34that are

42:35generated because

42:36and they call the code

42:38I will also say that

42:41within the state of New York,

42:44there are often provisions

42:48that owner

42:52So I think it's probably

42:57there's some awareness

42:59owners

43:00or regulations

43:02rather than just buying it

43:04they can do anything with it.

43:06I know that's

43:10There is some understanding on

43:11the part of many property owners

43:15have additional regulations

43:17and sometimes it is

43:20So I guess in that scenario,

43:24barred from selling the house

43:26planning on living there?

43:28We that we that with the city,

43:32you know able to enforce that.

43:34But should they do that

43:38and not live there.

43:39Could they be cited

43:41Yes, they would be.

43:44So in that case,

43:47that the Adu would have to sit

43:51Or the person who bought

43:53into one of the walls,

43:57Possible.

44:00Yeah. I,

44:03I guess I

44:05it would be a shame

44:08into building an Adu,

44:10and then it's,

44:14I don't know if there's any,

44:18Any intervention that we have

44:22Yeah.

44:23Let me I'll come let me, I guess

44:25So we talked a little bit

44:27Or I talked about yesterday,

44:31rate in the city,

44:36And we also talked

44:39not supposed to be included

44:42So incorporating

44:45I'll speak to LDR specifically

44:47It was a mitigating factor

44:48to do it

44:50but also require this owner

44:54the city value

44:56We want people to.

44:58Owners

45:00to potentially move a loved one

45:01in have multi-generational

45:05Maybe,

45:08based on the other dwelling

45:10So the owner occupancy piece,

45:14was also about working

45:18can, to the extent that it can,

45:23Okay.

45:25So there's also a statewide

45:29a, tax exemption

45:34That would I think after for

45:38And then it phases them

45:41Okay.

45:41That choice program does,

45:44is there a plan for the city

45:47I would coordinate

45:51the housing division, but

45:52Thank you.

45:55Council

45:58Councilman Monroe.

46:02Council member.

46:03Patterson.

46:07Sure.

46:08Okay. So.

46:11Yes. Well,

46:13Have been already been

46:15submitted in writing,

46:19there is no.

46:20Well,

46:22put it like this.

46:24If the person constructing the.

46:26I can understand

46:30Submitting the permit

46:33for the Adu, constructing the 80

46:36Adu being held had a requirement

46:41or either

46:43That makes perfect sense to me,

46:46but the notion

46:49and structurally sound

46:52that person sells the property.

46:54The new property owner is

46:59Let's say I buy a house.

47:01I don't live there.

47:03I just bought it.

47:06Okay, I got a house

47:08I'm going to rent out what?

47:11The notion that we would say

47:13Yeah.

47:14No, you can't do

47:16I don't at the point

47:18of even the state program,

47:22one of the things that it says

47:26the purpose of an Adu is long

47:30You know, giving folks

47:32So why would we?

47:35And we're a pro

47:37So why would we

47:39potentially entertain the notion

47:43that on out ownership change,

47:47Yes. We are a pro

47:49and the state did review

47:52I will I think I mentioned that.

47:54I think the best answer to

47:57this balance

48:01taking the,

48:04I'm going to say taking the need

48:06I don't mean that negatively.

48:07I just mean

48:08there was also a focus,

48:11various types

48:14for all stages of life,

48:16etc., etc.

48:17to offer residents

48:20It was also about attempting

48:25to be able

48:29And because oftentimes ADUs

48:33for,

48:37someone has lived at a property

48:40could be an owner.

48:41They might be able to use it

48:44So I think

48:45I think the best answer to

48:49mitigating aspects

48:52into the code,

48:55that was not originally going

48:57In finding ways to mitigate

49:01by requiring that owners

49:05or in the principal structure.

49:06Well, again,

49:09from the perspective

49:12of making

49:15getting the approval

49:17a condition for the original

49:21But once ownership changes,

49:26we would say you have now lost

49:30is a bit challenging for me.

49:34Councilmember Smith.

49:37So article 14,

49:43f talking about donation boxes.

49:45So throughout the city,

49:49food boxes and free food stands,

49:53How will article 14

49:57And can they remain visible

49:59and accessible in front yards

50:02And can you please clarify

50:05these size limits or placement

50:08Because I know that you're

50:10here, and I'm not sure

50:11about the tall standard boxes

50:16or if you're talking

50:17about because as this doesn't

50:19the food stands

50:21Yeah,

50:22Or an equivalent to

50:24library

50:26Those are not regulated

50:29So there are no restrictions

50:31But you're saying

50:32No, but thank you.

50:35Councilman Martin.

50:47One second.

50:50Can you talk to me about these

50:54and the cost of,

50:57receiving a permit

51:00or a certificate

51:01I see that's a requirement

51:03in the code

51:06I can't talk to you about

51:09Can you point me to the

51:12Yes.

51:16Page 177.

51:21One 14.2 be.

51:25And it is number seven.

51:29Just curious about,

51:32is a state requirement

51:36So the requirement in the code

51:39to have it.

51:40And the reason

51:43there were some issues with,

51:46owners,

51:49property,

51:52properly by way of example,

51:56And they ended up

51:58and the neighbors allergic.

51:59So it was more about putting a,

52:04provision in the code

52:07has done their due

52:10Got it.

52:11Thank you.

52:12And on ADUs.

52:15I understand

52:19in the 800ft allowance.

52:21Yes, I believe that's correct.

52:22And a total of 800ft■.

52:24Thank you. Why is that?

52:27What if someone has a family

52:31one to have stay there?

52:32I mean, you can fit two

52:36Sure. Yeah.

52:37So the

52:40because it's by definition

52:42and by definition

52:43it has to be subordinate in size

52:47And so there is a large segment

52:50of the city's housing stock

52:51that might not be significantly

52:55So it was just simply

52:57to mitigate having the use there

52:59and the number of people

53:02And is this a situation where

53:06Absolutely, absolutely.

53:07Or it could be waived as part

53:08of the special permit process,

53:10especially

53:13Any final questions on 14?

53:17Okay.

53:18We'll move to 15.

53:19Everyone's

53:22We are on page 184.

53:25For those following

53:28I'll start just with, first

53:32And again

53:36This is a really big improvement

53:39into the current code.

53:40And just to, just to kind of

53:46a little bit,

53:48is that virtually

53:51some form of minimum

53:55And moving forward.

53:57Nonresidential uses,

54:00that and only ones that have

54:04What is it, 100.

54:06Correct.

54:07Based on their building

54:09will have to submit a tap and

54:14All right, which is a

54:17which is essentially a,

54:20a request, a proposal

54:24owner, the developer or whatever

54:26to the zoning department

54:30to address how much parking my

54:34project will ultimately require.

54:37And and you and not you, Mr.

54:39Simmons, but you and BPD

54:44accept that proposal

54:47Is that a fair way of

54:49understanding it? Yeah.

54:50If I may offer some

54:52caveats to that,

54:54but just build off of that

54:55are really important,

54:59for those, occupancy postings

55:05couple of mixed use districts,

55:09is not actually

55:11street parking requirements.

55:14I think that differentiation

55:15It's not the city saying

55:17if you have more than 100

55:19you also have to provide

55:21That's not what the tap is.

55:22The tap is the ability

55:23for the property owner

55:27I may not have any parking,

55:28but let me tell you why

55:30I'm on a transit

55:32There's bike parking,

55:34or whatever the case may be.

55:35So the tap in and of itself, is

55:40I think it's really important

55:42that it is not a set of minimum

55:46The other thing

55:48is that

55:49approval process,

55:52helpful

55:58Not have to provide a minimum

56:01So we have more surface parking.

56:02So we don't have more surface

56:04Yeah.

56:05And and, there's a great deal

56:10and what it is not on page 185

56:16So I appreciate that.

56:17But I want to so I appreciate

56:20the kind of level

56:23So the only places where

56:28that is outside of of the kind

56:33is specifically in residential

56:40Is that true? Correct. Okay.

56:42So I guess my

56:43my question,

56:45a lot of there's

56:46People have said, oh,

56:48this city has totally abolished

56:52And the response

56:53times is not really that.

56:55If you really look

56:56at the code of a place

56:59no one is doing,

57:00no one is doing big projects

57:04without some parking minimums

57:07or another, maybe

57:10But my question for you is

57:14the same ethos

57:17What if the argument was

57:20that allows for essentially

57:23for why they don't need

57:26Why not allow that same process

57:31I'd say an elder two,

57:34Yeah. So let me start with,

57:37couple things.

57:38So yes, there's a lot of talk

57:40about

57:41Buffalo has something called a

57:43transportation

57:45transportation demand management

57:47Syracuse has with their rezone

57:51It had adoptions

57:54They also work

57:56And if memory serves me

57:58they did it in residential,

58:00Which we what you're seeing

58:03in this proposed code.

58:04The one thing

58:06I do always caution people is

58:09Best practices, in my mind,

58:13not a reason to codify

58:16By way of example, we all shop

58:18We all buy the same clothes,

58:20for our own bodies

58:22So we're

58:24use policy sort of thing,

58:26we understand what fits

58:29The reason we, did, in fact,

58:35Or excuse me,

58:36residential district parking

58:39And I talked a quite

58:40Yesterday was issues around

58:42front yard parking with houses

58:45And they oftentimes

58:48And if there's multiple units in

58:49it, people don't want to play

58:51And and then they end up on the,

58:53then they either end up

58:55To your point

58:59the ability to do a tap

59:02as we would in the mixed use

59:04is a very similar conversation

59:07occupancy in ADUs,

59:10So doing a tap for a property

59:13may work perfectly

59:15and how they're managing it

59:18But the property sells

59:20and now all of a sudden

59:22the multiple units

59:24that are not complying

59:26in fact, off

59:28So the one thing to think about

59:29zoning in addition

59:31future

59:33that it may be protecting

59:37from the future

59:38and it being operated

59:40than the

59:43Yeah.

59:44I think I, I'm not

59:47because I think

59:48I just have

59:49and I'm not sure how much,

59:51will help in that regard.

59:52I would just say that

59:57having a similar product,

1:00:00at least for HDR and MDR as

1:00:05which I don't like either.

1:00:06I have

1:00:07a whole bunch of constituents

1:00:10and I regularly help them

1:00:13but there are ways to enforce

1:00:16no front yard

1:00:19And I think if the idea is

1:00:24that's useful, that's flexible,

1:00:27a real dialog between NBD

1:00:31and business owner, developer,

1:00:33Whatever the case may be,

1:00:36about how we use that

1:00:40and not just create limits

1:00:45ultimately reflect a world

1:00:49which is not the world

1:00:53because it's different

1:00:54and be not the world that we

1:00:58So I'll leave my comments

1:01:02what other council members

1:01:04I'll change up the order

1:01:05President Melendez,

1:01:10All right.

1:01:11Thank you.

1:01:13So I want to push in on EV

1:01:17I know that we

1:01:20as a city have been seeing

1:01:24We certainly have been pushing

1:01:28charging stations

1:01:31But some of the requirements

1:01:33that, are in the new code

1:01:37specify based on the,

1:01:42number of spaces, how many EV

1:01:46So could you maybe at a high

1:01:50the thinking on the future of EV

1:01:54with respect to the zoning code

1:01:55and what went into the process

1:01:58Yeah, absolutely.

1:02:00There was I'll open with, the

1:02:04that I talked so much about.

1:02:05There was a lot of talk

1:02:09the economics in the city

1:02:12for certain property owners

1:02:15that is expensive

1:02:17or adds

1:02:18while at the same time trying

1:02:21for, all the reasons that

1:02:25And so by way of example

1:02:28at the top of page one,

1:02:31C required electric vehicle

1:02:34for parking facilities of more

1:02:38We had to land on a number.

1:02:40We landed on one.

1:02:41And when I say we,

1:02:42I mean what we heard

1:02:44what we heard

1:02:45what we, had or had

1:02:49for parking facilities of 40

1:02:53of the required spaces

1:02:57The reason there's a percentage,

1:02:59than mandating

1:03:0240 number is going to go up,

1:03:04and then the percentage

1:03:06There are a what I'll call fair

1:03:10where there are, parking

1:03:15Oftentimes it's

1:03:17Oftentimes it's adjacent

1:03:19for some sort of a retail

1:03:22And we had a lot of

1:03:26whether it would be

1:03:29install an EV charging station

1:03:32you know, that size.

1:03:33And what does that look like

1:03:35So all of those things

1:03:39this is where it landed,

1:03:43encouraging having them,

1:03:45while also

1:03:50That it.

1:03:54So Council

1:03:55Member Gruber was talking

1:03:59And I know that there's also

1:04:02And could you maybe talk through

1:04:07I know that sometimes

1:04:12parking requirements,

1:04:16for doing so, but,

1:04:21How do we safeguard against

1:04:22excessive surface parking and

1:04:25how do we manage

1:04:28Yeah.

1:04:30And I've often said that parking

1:04:33more important than parking.

1:04:35The parking minimum conversation

1:04:36for the reasons that you just

1:04:39And so the chief change or,

1:04:42the biggest change

1:04:44and the proposed code

1:04:48to go over the parking maximum,

1:04:52use permit.

1:04:52And as you know, a special use

1:04:54permit is a thought is a use

1:04:57more, permissive,

1:05:00And so with the proposed code,

1:05:02to be more restrictive of that.

1:05:04So going over the parking

1:05:06actually requires a variance,

1:05:10And the reason for

1:05:11that was just as you described,

1:05:15prevent against the overbuilding

1:05:18Certainly.

1:05:19I think everyone in this room

1:05:21think of a use somewhere

1:05:24But they were convinced

1:05:27But the reality becomes

1:05:30amount of land

1:05:31something else

1:05:34And oftentimes creates

1:05:35additional coverage

1:05:37So, we were intentional

1:05:43while

1:05:44because as you note,

1:05:47additional parking.

1:05:49And then

1:05:51bringing in the idea of planned

1:05:53where sometimes those planned

1:05:55development

1:05:57parking requirements

1:06:00what might be the standard

1:06:03How will the will

1:06:07if they have a different maximum

1:06:09what the standard or zone is for

1:06:13Will those be treated

1:06:14and individually and PDS?

1:06:16Yeah, absolutely.

1:06:17So many of the PD's

1:06:21Sometimes PDS

1:06:23It refers to an article

1:06:26And then other times

1:06:28But because PDS are planned,

1:06:32are legislatively legislatively

1:06:36Any ones that come through

1:06:41you know, the adoption of that.

1:06:42If council wants to say no where

1:06:45from having this many parking

1:06:48That could certainly be dealt

1:06:51All right.

1:06:55Yes. So.

1:07:01What would be the

1:07:03impact of eliminating

1:07:07We would I would get back to

1:07:09I want to give a more detailed

1:07:11I hope, in particularly

1:07:16how it would impact

1:07:18and the reuse of existing

1:07:20Yeah.

1:07:21I can give you a

1:07:22especially with the reuse

1:07:24So one of the

1:07:25actually many of the directives

1:07:29the reactivation of oftentimes

1:07:32And for all

1:07:34that we all know we

1:07:34we should be repair,

1:07:37to repurpose

1:07:38And we didn't want off

1:07:40street parking requirements

1:07:43Which is why that posting of 99,

1:07:46folks

1:07:49less than that, you don't need

1:07:52We also have

1:07:54what's called

1:07:55a preexisting deficiency,

1:07:58as necessary,

1:07:59which is a acknowledgment

1:08:02that much of our city was built

1:08:03modern zoning and just simply

1:08:07That's mostly downtown

1:08:09because it was built pre

1:08:11pre-modern zoning.

1:08:12So we do apply that as well.

1:08:14As an additional

1:08:16we can get you more

1:08:17specific information on that,

1:08:19but it is absolutely

1:08:22which was to remove barriers

1:08:27Councilmember Leslie Smith.

1:08:31So my initial question

1:08:35got clarified,

1:08:39So thank you for that.

1:08:40But,

1:08:43but maybe there's no real,

1:08:47I know what you're

1:08:49Says that residential parking

1:08:53if removing them in the mixed

1:08:57Absolutely.

1:08:58What does success

1:09:00Is there a time frame around

1:09:02I would love

1:09:05a conversation

1:09:07So, one of the things,

1:09:08you've heard me say is that

1:09:11The city owns it.

1:09:12It's not like the building code

1:09:15New York State that we don't

1:09:18I can also tell you,

1:09:20with the commissioner earlier,

1:09:22it has been the case up

1:09:25that NBD regularly

1:09:29review committee

1:09:31what's working

1:09:33Council member.

1:09:34He's not here.

1:09:35Council member Patterson was,

1:09:36made a comment about that

1:09:38of changes that came through,

1:09:41And that is something

1:09:44once we, get the code adopted.

1:09:47So to give a number

1:09:50I don't have a number,

1:09:52if council says, look,

1:09:53We want to know if it's working.

1:09:55We want to know

1:09:56We want to know

1:09:58We want to know if there are

1:10:00and if there are none.

1:10:03Let's move in

1:10:04two years from now,

1:10:07Citywide completely

1:10:08is something we could absolutely

1:10:12I know other cities around

1:10:16zoning plan,

1:10:19from other cities

1:10:23It depends on who you talk to.

1:10:24I will tell you,

1:10:25we codified as part of this code

1:10:29and BPD

1:10:30needs to provide

1:10:31to this city council,

1:10:34Which also occurred in 2003.

1:10:37My predecessor at the time,

1:10:38I think did 1 in 2005

1:10:41So that council knows what's

1:10:44Recommendations for amendments.

1:10:46So one will absolutely be

1:10:49because it's required

1:10:51But if there are requests

1:10:53we are always happy

1:10:56and track what you need.

1:10:57Got it. Okay.

1:10:58We had a little bit

1:11:02And I understand

1:11:04that you particularly

1:11:07with that,

1:11:11I don't

1:11:12It's not me, it's NBT.

1:11:13Yes it is.

1:11:14It is NBD,

1:11:15though it is an administrative,

1:11:17it is an administrative

1:11:19So whenever you see the director

1:11:22just based on how

1:11:23the code in the charter set up

1:11:27But what that means is

1:11:29within NPD that coordinate

1:11:32folks within NPD or does,

1:11:36So it's an administrative

1:11:38An administrative adjustment

1:11:42of public notification.

1:11:43It is not the same as the land

1:11:47I believe it's, 1 or 200ft

1:11:52And residents

1:11:54any concerns or thoughts.

1:11:55They have to be considered

1:11:59But the biggest difference

1:12:00public hearing associated with

1:12:03Oh, I see, so,

1:12:04I don't know if is the traffic

1:12:09And, that's with DEA.

1:12:11So that's often,

1:12:12when there's impacts

1:12:14I believe the powers Building

1:12:16has part of West Main Street

1:12:18That stuff goes

1:12:20But we, in NBD

1:12:24but we coordinate with DDS

1:12:27or if there are right of way

1:12:29Thank you. Vice president?

1:12:32Yes. And I'd like a follow up

1:12:35And if the manager

1:12:40gives,

1:12:43the developer

1:12:46what is the

1:12:48What is their recourse?

1:12:49They can appeal

1:12:51to the city's

1:12:54Well,

1:12:55There's a form of relief.

1:12:57Oh. Thank you.

1:12:58So I also have a question

1:13:02residential driveway design.

1:13:04Can you describe

1:13:08Are you

1:13:09I want to just check it

1:13:11Three 15.9.

1:13:16Yes. So,

1:13:18speaking, generally,

1:13:21design largely remained,

1:13:25But there was one big change

1:13:30what we saw as far as cases.

1:13:31So this current code

1:13:32requires,

1:13:34that your driveway

1:13:3718ft past the rear

1:13:39which we discovered

1:13:41or which

1:13:42we discovered

1:13:43additional asphalt on parcels,

1:13:45which then also might create

1:13:48So it seemed like

1:13:52to tell a property

1:13:54And then we're going

1:13:55to force you into a variance,

1:13:56you're also going into the,

1:13:58you're

1:14:00So it's been changed

1:14:03And the reason for that is,

1:14:04the purpose statement

1:14:06of the residential districts

1:14:09not having sort of obstructions

1:14:14have a better

1:14:15So, we want driveways to have

1:14:20or to the rear wall,

1:14:22a little bit to not be

1:14:26Thank you.

1:14:27And I also saw that, in here,

1:14:31developments are prohibited

1:14:33individual driveways

1:14:36Correct.

1:14:37So the idea with that townhouses

1:14:38being single family attached,

1:14:40they're actually connected

1:14:42We don't want that

1:14:45having driveways or driveways,

1:14:47probably be impossible

1:14:49They usually do a shared access

1:14:51And because they're connected,

1:14:53the ability to do an individual

1:14:56Anyway.

1:14:57And largely what happens is

1:14:59easement across the back.

1:15:01Sometimes there's garages

1:15:03But either way,

1:15:04So if a developer had property

1:15:09with that criteria

1:15:11is there

1:15:13Always a form of relief.

1:15:14They can apply for,

1:15:17Thank you,

1:15:18Councilmember Smith.

1:15:21Councilmember Patterson,

1:15:23Councilmember Monroe.

1:15:28As regards

1:15:29the electric vehicle charging,

1:15:34how many number of spaces

1:15:39who has to bear that cost

1:15:45of the chargers and equipment?

1:15:46Yeah.

1:15:47And I asked this

1:15:50you know, development that

1:15:54is this something

1:15:55if the companies themselves

1:15:59and then maybe take a higher

1:16:04I just don't know.

1:16:06Yeah, that's

1:16:08between what I would refer to

1:16:10which is the person we deal

1:16:12in our office in NBD, which is

1:16:16It could be the tenant.

1:16:18It could be a design

1:16:20it could be a land use attorney,

1:16:21whomever that is, they would

1:16:26how they are determined

1:16:28how that's going to be,

1:16:31Okay.

1:16:32But have you found that

1:16:35different ways that these are

1:16:38paid for or you're just not?

1:16:41I'm not sure about EV

1:16:43I can tell you just anecdotally

1:16:46definitely a menu of options

1:16:50as part of the zoning code

1:16:53you know, my contractor

1:16:54of the materials

1:16:57you know, the labor,

1:16:58it doesn't have anything to do

1:17:00It's just the applicant

1:17:03Thank you.

1:17:04Could I, chime in on

1:17:07I wanted to just mention,

1:17:10it may be, obvious,

1:17:13it's not clear for that question

1:17:14in many of these

1:17:16these new regulations,

1:17:19kick in for new development.

1:17:22When the

1:17:24it's not like overnight existing

1:17:27now have to find a way

1:17:31And that that

1:17:33kind of principle applies

1:17:35that were brought up tonight.

1:17:37Thanks.

1:17:38I'll get to you, Councilmember

1:17:40Oh, by Councilman Patterson,

1:17:41one question

1:17:44What is the reason

1:17:48to store one outside?

1:17:52Yeah.

1:17:53So the reason for that is city

1:17:55small to the extent where

1:17:57Anyway, we have had scenarios

1:18:02to be collecting recreational

1:18:05And then it just becomes

1:18:08for recreational vehicles.

1:18:09So limiting a number on it

1:18:12owner

1:18:14the ability to own one

1:18:17But if they would like

1:18:19they would either need to apply

1:18:20for relief from the zoning code

1:18:23Gotcha.

1:18:25Generally, when people apply

1:18:28based on your

1:18:29in your in your experience, it's

1:18:31So the, the variance standards

1:18:35state law.

1:18:37And they're, you know,

1:18:38general enough that people

1:18:41And it largely depends on,

1:18:43you know, the case that

1:18:45And can they prove that

1:18:46there's largely not a detriment

1:18:50Thank

1:18:55So I'm just going to push back

1:18:56a little bit on requiring an EV

1:18:59I've got an EV charging station

1:19:02It's great thing

1:19:03helps when, my son has his car

1:19:06Good thing,

1:19:07but that electricity ain't free,

1:19:08and I pay for it,

1:19:11The notion that a development

1:19:15as the city of Rochester, would

1:19:20I have a little challenge

1:19:22I mean, I know that

1:19:25as much better than gasoline,

1:19:29We would never require

1:19:32at any development, if it were

1:19:38and there are a plethora

1:19:42of EV charging stations

1:19:46They're here. They're

1:19:48They're easy to get to.

1:19:50There's a slow charger.

1:19:52We got free chargers

1:19:55So what is

1:19:57what was the thinking behind

1:20:01Yeah.

1:20:02So this

1:20:03mostly from, you know,

1:20:06that talk about sustainable

1:20:09climate change.

1:20:10So it was incorporated

1:20:14I guess it's fair to also say,

1:20:17it allows the zoning code to

1:20:21maybe force developers

1:20:24to think about something

1:20:25that they may not have already

1:20:27by way of installing an EV

1:20:30I can, I can say with,

1:20:33a lot of requirements

1:20:35Very often have developers

1:20:38saying to us, oh, I guess

1:20:41And if for some reason they,

1:20:44they would be able

1:20:47so I guess this leads me to a,

1:20:49related question,

1:20:50which is it seems as though

1:20:53y'all remember, y'all refer

1:20:57which we passed unanimously.

1:20:59Well, since we passed that

1:21:00unanimously, is there any reason

1:21:04So that is a question

1:21:06you know, need to occur.

1:21:08I will tell you the reason

1:21:13it is the plan

1:21:15Has have things changed

1:21:18You know, certainly.

1:21:19I think we could all attest

1:21:21But, you hear me say that just

1:21:24But could it be amended?

1:21:26Yes, we could have that

1:21:31Yeah.

1:21:33Won't be the first or last time.

1:21:34And it won't be the last time

1:21:36with Councilmember Patterson,

1:21:37that a, EV charging

1:21:40I think, the smell and the,

1:21:45is very different

1:21:47that's in your driveway, but,

1:21:49we can agree to disagree on

1:21:51We've done it before.

1:21:53Any last questions on 13 or.

1:21:55Sorry, 15.

1:21:56Council president,

1:21:57just a comment in the van around

1:22:01I'll also just say to

1:22:02to all of us up here

1:22:06like adding

1:22:10we didn't amend the comp plan

1:22:14zoning code.

1:22:14So I think that turns around EV.

1:22:17We can have that discussion.

1:22:18I don't know that

1:22:21the, 2034 plan.

1:22:23I just

1:22:26Any final

1:22:30I'm just going to ask

1:22:32I think this is kind of in line

1:22:34Lupine's question that you're

1:22:37I've tried not to ask a lot of,

1:22:41philosophical questions.

1:22:42I'm going to try to I'm going

1:22:43a little bit of homework

1:22:44I'd like to understand it.

1:22:46My, I'm I'm really eager

1:22:50reduce parking requirements,

1:22:52at least in high density

1:22:55And I'd like for you

1:22:57an answer at what you think

1:23:01on moving to a tap in HDR

1:23:05If you could provide

1:23:06that would be,

1:23:08We can do that.

1:23:09Okay, before we go for a break,

1:23:13the break is scheduled for 645,

1:23:15so I'm going to follow

1:23:16here,

1:23:18I think let's go 16

1:23:22And then after that

1:23:24and then I'll open it

1:23:26And at 730 ish, we'll

1:23:30the STR question answered

1:23:34So right now, articles 16

1:23:37Article 17 signs,

1:23:40Council president

1:23:42instead of going down the line,

1:23:44to raise their hands

1:23:45on this council president.

1:23:46Thank you. So

1:23:49zoning code regulates everything

1:23:53outside of the public

1:23:55Practice trees on tree lawns.

1:23:58I want to get some clarity.

1:24:00This is a probably

1:24:02And so where does that policy?

1:24:05Where does trees on tree lawns

1:24:08roads? Environmental services.

1:24:11Environmental services

1:24:15Street design standards.

1:24:16Street design standards okay.

1:24:19And then I'm going to jump to

1:24:22signs. So.

1:24:28Can you give us sort of

1:24:29the overarching policy direction

1:24:33So I know that the from

1:24:38and there's been different

1:24:42essentially we're going to have

1:24:46We're

1:24:49than the previous code.

1:24:52And the distance between signs

1:24:56because there was 200 or 500

1:24:59So I heard bigger signs higher,

1:25:05maybe more of them.

1:25:06But then where they can be

1:25:09zoning wise and fewer districts.

1:25:12So two things here.

1:25:13So one, could you,

1:25:15after the fact in writing

1:25:19a sense of where billboards

1:25:24I think seeing it in a visual

1:25:26would be helpful to council,

1:25:27just so we can kind of see

1:25:30But then overall just kind of

1:25:33why those changes specifically.

1:25:35And I know that

1:25:36height is often

1:25:38one of the things that everyone

1:25:40So I understand

1:25:43But in the previous iteration

1:25:45Now it's up 32.

1:25:47So I just want to

1:25:48get an understanding

1:25:50Absolutely.

1:25:50And this topic may take me right

1:25:53So, that being said,

1:25:55I want to just mention

1:25:58signs or billboards

1:26:02which is different than signs

1:26:05for a use on a property

1:26:10So off premise

1:26:11advertising signs,

1:26:12as billboards

1:26:14in the existing code,

1:26:19is that they are permitted

1:26:21in accordance with federal

1:26:25within 660ft

1:26:28Interstate system

1:26:33or industrial or industrial.

1:26:35So because we currently have

1:26:39those are the commercial

1:26:41That's why within 660ft

1:26:46if you think of for 90 from east

1:26:50along that corridor

1:26:53that touches within 660ft

1:26:56a billboard would be permitted

1:26:59with the dimensional

1:27:00which I'll talk about in

1:27:02as part of the proposed

1:27:05where we have moved away from

1:27:08commercial districts

1:27:12that regulation about 660ft

1:27:15within a federally assisted

1:27:20because we now have what

1:27:22use districts as opposed to

1:27:26The reason for that is largely

1:27:28that mixed use districts

1:27:30have a significant emphasis

1:27:33components, and,

1:27:37toward automobile traffic

1:27:42or interstates

1:27:47So the change from commercial

1:27:51districts to mixed use

1:27:53the number of areas

1:27:55where billboards are permitted

1:27:58However,

1:28:01be billboards in those locations

1:28:04Those don't go away.

1:28:05The ones that are farther

1:28:09if they have legal approval

1:28:12So that's a big change.

1:28:13The other big change is around

1:28:16I believe the existing

1:28:22In the proposed code is 378ft■.

1:28:26The existing height,

1:28:29And the proposed

1:28:31I believe you said 45

1:28:33I think it's 30 now or 39.

1:28:35And so what we did there is

1:28:38we recognized that

1:28:41the number of places

1:28:44is less

1:28:46and also most of the variances

1:28:49or most of the applications

1:28:51for billboards

1:28:52which is largely

1:28:54There are some other ones.

1:28:56We're larger than 239ft■.

1:28:58I don't know where that number

1:29:01but what we did is

1:29:04that we had received

1:29:08and 378

1:29:10There's also a 672ft■,

1:29:13and I can provide examples

1:29:15that we have that exist

1:29:17So, the 2023 draft, candidly

1:29:21or admittedly, did have the 672,

1:29:24that was not as big

1:29:27So we we backed it down in this

1:29:31And then with regard

1:29:33there were a lot of variances

1:29:34as well for the,

1:29:39The current code

1:29:41So that was another change

1:29:44And then

1:29:48I think

1:29:50and we've dealt with situations

1:29:51over the years

1:29:54and they're what I call rector

1:29:56If it's on the roof or the thing

1:30:00We had to think about

1:30:04with redevelopments

1:30:06If a billboard exists

1:30:07So if there is a billboard

1:30:10or a building,

1:30:11in the property

1:30:13as a result of hosting

1:30:15is there an incentive

1:30:17That's a philosophical question

1:30:18that would have to get answered.

1:30:19If there's a billboard

1:30:21and the developer

1:30:24or the building is vacant,

1:30:25is there an incentive

1:30:27if there is income

1:30:31Again, another philosophical

1:30:35and our consultant in

1:30:37when thinking through, what was

1:30:41So I think that's the,

1:30:43and the last thing I will say

1:30:47of the full draft code

1:30:52to try to get boards

1:30:56incentivize newer ones.

1:30:57And we realized

1:31:00because there are

1:31:01newcomers to the game

1:31:03that don't have other boards

1:31:05So it wouldn't have impacted

1:31:07So what the 2026 code has in it

1:31:11the amortization schedule?

1:31:12And that comes directly

1:31:15Thank you.

1:31:16One more question.

1:31:17Moving

1:31:22some of the concerns that

1:31:23that we have heard,

1:31:26in different formats

1:31:29around, light pollution.

1:31:32And then also when someone's

1:31:36might change and how that could

1:31:39Could you just speak

1:31:42particular issues are addressed

1:31:45Yeah, certainly.

1:31:46So absolutely.

1:31:48Something we hear about, you you

1:31:52depending on who you talk to,

1:31:53you may hear

1:31:55because the louvers

1:31:58can be directed

1:32:02into a neighborhood

1:32:03where if it's

1:32:04and it just has one up

1:32:07it might actually spill out

1:32:10but your questions

1:32:13they actually illustrate

1:32:15not allowing them

1:32:18because of that

1:32:19So if the city is attempting

1:32:21to create these more vibrant,

1:32:25throughout the city

1:32:27to services

1:32:31should there be billboards

1:32:34you know, light pollution when,

1:32:36they're oftentimes

1:32:39I should also note

1:32:41are also required

1:32:44So before they actually come

1:32:46to apply for applicability

1:32:50they will get a, basically

1:32:54that the location is okay,

1:32:57will have to get the permit

1:32:59I do believe there are

1:33:03based on

1:33:05which is how often the message

1:33:09is, is directly related

1:33:13Is that correct? Your.

1:33:16Yes. And the permits only

1:33:22Sorry.

1:33:22They're only,

1:33:23for the billboards

1:33:25the federal highways

1:33:28dwell time and I think for the,

1:33:32the nits of the lighting

1:33:36Thank you.

1:33:37Councilmember Monroe.

1:33:44Is there anything that prohibits

1:33:46us from simply prohibiting

1:33:49going forward?

1:33:51I would defer

1:33:53on that question.

1:34:01We'll supply a written response.

1:34:05Any further questions

1:34:07for Councilmember Monroe?

1:34:09Any further questions from you?

1:34:11No, I would just express

1:34:16the polluting effect, the visual

1:34:18that the billboards have.

1:34:20I don't believe that they add

1:34:22anything to our streetscape,

1:34:25with marble, not marble,

1:34:30beautiful, light

1:34:34I don't know that they add

1:34:38Councilmember

1:34:42All right.

1:34:43Well, I'm going to push

1:34:47I would really like

1:34:49based upon what is proposed,

1:34:53So I get it.

1:34:54Everybody doesn't

1:34:56My side hustle is

1:34:59and, look at a lot of billboards

1:35:03But one of the things that I

1:35:06and why I'm reluctant

1:35:09billboards bad, throw them away,

1:35:11is because historically,

1:35:14has been the content

1:35:17So as the old man

1:35:19I remember when we had cigaret

1:35:23I remember when we had beer

1:35:24advertising and liquor

1:35:26Well, that's gone

1:35:28and allow live

1:35:32across my city,

1:35:33particularly in black and brown

1:35:35one of the things

1:35:39I'm seeing some interesting

1:35:43The billboard at Upper Falls

1:35:47and Saint Paul recently changed.

1:35:50Before, it was an ad from

1:35:54hey, beat up by the cops,

1:35:58You'll see that everywhere.

1:36:00Now that billboard has

1:36:05I have other billboards

1:36:07where it's saying,

1:36:10Talk to us about how

1:36:11you can use your section

1:36:13Now, that's actually

1:36:15I had nothing to do

1:36:17but I'm totally in favor of it.

1:36:19I had another billboard

1:36:21over, and Joseph said A shot

1:36:25It was a city campaign.

1:36:28What I'm

1:36:29a lot of recently,

1:36:33memorializing family

1:36:36So, you know, look, it's

1:36:41It yeah,

1:36:44And in an age where all of our

1:36:47by what comes in my phone,

1:36:50just to me based upon

1:36:53broad based advertising.

1:36:54I don't see that as a negative.

1:36:56So I really want to understand

1:36:58and I'd like that

1:37:00I'm expect you

1:37:02But you know.

1:37:05It is a matter of of perception,

1:37:07you know,

1:37:11isn't just one way

1:37:12different communities

1:37:14So that's that's going to be

1:37:17as I'm looking at this, you

1:37:23the actual commercial

1:37:26It's like white

1:37:30Rebecca's home daycare

1:37:33that's stuck.

1:37:36I smile every time I go

1:37:39Thank you,

1:37:41Councilmember Martin.

1:37:49In section or article 17,

1:37:5317.6 specifically,

1:37:56what are you hoping to prevent?

1:37:59With the vehicle signs placed

1:38:05Like what specifically

1:38:09Because it does allow,

1:38:12So I couldn't think of

1:38:17I'm sorry, you said 17.7, Jay.

1:38:2017.6 there.

1:38:21I believe.

1:38:25It's seven.

1:38:25So that.

1:38:27Yeah, the vehicle signs

1:38:29or painted on a vehicle

1:38:31purposes of attracting intent.

1:38:32That one. Yes.

1:38:38Let us get back to you

1:38:41Thank you.

1:38:41And one more question.

1:38:44So in the general landscape,

1:38:48requirements in section 16.

1:38:52Four, does this apply

1:38:54to urban gardens?

1:38:59You're

1:39:01talking about the

1:39:03Yes. Community

1:39:07where it says

1:39:08not covered by structures

1:39:12trees, shrubs, all that. No.

1:39:17Give me one second

1:39:18in section 16.

1:39:23Let me follow up with you

1:39:25That's a good question.

1:39:27I want to make the connection

1:39:30what you just described,

1:39:31the actual landscape section

1:39:34But I want to get this to you

1:39:35The landscape section

1:39:38or is is geared toward

1:39:41Often of a lot of times

1:39:44and putting,

1:39:47landscaping

1:39:50into parking lots

1:39:51to reduce the heat island effect

1:39:54Esthetically, it's

1:39:57I think, you know, everyone

1:40:00But I'll get back to

1:40:01we can get back to you in

1:40:02Thank you.

1:40:03And it's safe to say that

1:40:04that the intention for 16

1:40:08be for community gardens.

1:40:09But the language

1:40:11That's what I want to find out.

1:40:12I think that's a very fair

1:40:14Councilmember Lupine,

1:40:17along that line, the, you know,

1:40:20weeds in the front lawn

1:40:23No, it's not okay.

1:40:25Where is that covered?

1:40:26Is that, that's property

1:40:28It's not zoning, okay?

1:40:29Zoning

1:40:31on private properties or,

1:40:33Right. Thank you.

1:40:47Will there

1:40:50for council to be able

1:40:59Again, I would defer to law,

1:41:01we'll probably get back to you

1:41:03Thank you.

1:41:03Thank you.

1:41:10How? Given that,

1:41:15Companies

1:41:18how will council how can council

1:41:21keep an eye on

1:41:25You know, for irregularly

1:41:28So the easiest way to answer

1:41:31And I hope you are all on the

1:41:34Distribution

1:41:36If you are not,

1:41:37We will take a note.

1:41:38So that monthly you can see

1:41:40any of the land

1:41:42special permits or certificates

1:41:45what the boards are.

1:41:48You know, what

1:41:50So we would have to just keep

1:41:53Yeah.

1:41:54It should come through

1:41:55and you should be able to see

1:41:56No, I do it. Yeah.

1:41:58But I'm thinking more of,

1:42:01I think this is

1:42:03So I talked a little earlier

1:42:05the NBD staff putting together

1:42:09how the code is functioning,

1:42:11what's being seen, what's not.

1:42:13That that I think is the.

1:42:15Yeah.

1:42:16What might be

1:42:17And while we're talking about

1:42:19you know, council member Leslie

1:42:24when you were talking

1:42:27what are the specific

1:42:28measures that you're going

1:42:31Yeah. So I would get back to you

1:42:33I think it's going to be

1:42:34a matter of understanding

1:42:37And then I would be interested

1:42:40to know what specifically

1:42:43If I were a betting person,

1:42:44street parking is

1:42:47But understanding what it is

1:42:48council is looking for

1:42:53Any last questions

1:42:56Councilmember Leslie Smith

1:42:59my understanding is that,

1:43:03are not allowed

1:43:11Yes, but

1:43:13I would have to read the code

1:43:16What I can tell you

1:43:20three code to the proposed code,

1:43:24arguably

1:43:25too restrictive,

1:43:28was half a square foot

1:43:30foot of frontage on a street,

1:43:32which was a significant

1:43:35which I think was 1.5ft■

1:43:39So I think council at that time

1:43:43And I would argue, or

1:43:46the signs are too small.

1:43:47They're the challenges.

1:43:48There's

1:43:50that have these storefronts

1:43:51that may only be ten

1:43:54and we have to

1:43:55you can have a six square foot

1:43:59is really a challenge.

1:44:01At the same time,

1:44:02being cognizant of the fact

1:44:05you know, contribute positively

1:44:08So what is permitted

1:44:12And I will also say

1:44:14is also important.

1:44:15It is something we know,

1:44:17we're going to make

1:44:19and business permits,

1:44:22Council Member

1:44:24the blinking

1:44:27Let's take a break and

1:44:30Thank you.

1:51:49We're going to come back to it,

1:51:50and we'll give folks

1:51:53turn to their seats.

1:52:46All right.

1:52:46Welcome back.

1:52:47Thanks, everyone, for,

1:52:51Being so prompt.

1:52:53Appreciate it.

1:52:54We're pretty much

1:52:58we'll have a, hard

1:53:00stop at 730

1:53:05Any items

1:53:08presumably on top of the SCR

1:53:11there's already been some

1:53:13Probably some more questions

1:53:15will come along.

1:53:17Patrick looks really excited

1:53:19some of these questions.

1:53:21He was just telling me was,

1:53:23you know, I saw the

1:53:27if we if if

1:53:29there's nothing before 730,

1:53:31But right

1:53:34to anyone

1:53:38But please keep it to things

1:53:40Cite the page that you're

1:53:42because we'll come back at 730

1:53:45to talk about things

1:53:48I want to start just by asking.

1:53:51I. I'm

1:53:53I don't know what page this is

1:53:56But I would just like to ask

1:53:59and for an explanation of what

1:54:04plan review and what the process

1:54:07review is.

1:54:10Absolutely. So.

1:54:14There are a series of triggers

1:54:19place

1:54:20a project into site plan review.

1:54:23So by way of example, applicant

1:54:25comes into our building permit

1:54:29build a four story

1:54:33We review it, whatever it is,

1:54:36if there are any triggers

1:54:38I believe there are, 19

1:54:41for minor and then a few others

1:54:45Yes. Let me see.

1:54:48Article 19

1:54:51I see see is about public

1:54:55Bear with me one moment

1:54:56and I will give you the page

1:55:15I see 262 article 20 yes.

1:55:19D letter D yes.

1:55:21So these are the

1:55:24that specifically trigger

1:55:27Yeah.

1:55:28So there's level A

1:55:30So let me just talk generally

1:55:32So folks understand.

1:55:34So site plan review

1:55:36A little bit different

1:55:39most of if not all of our

1:55:41Our site plan review

1:55:44And what that means is,

1:55:46the city has a large staff

1:55:50in DSS and the fire department

1:55:53where we review

1:55:56So if it meets these triggers,

1:55:59to what

1:56:01So these

1:56:05impacts in the right of

1:56:06way or with the fire department

1:56:09It's a multifaceted, it's

1:56:13review process

1:56:17And I know not

1:56:19but I like to think of site

1:56:20Plan review as a service

1:56:24And what I mean by

1:56:25that is a lot of the projects

1:56:28require coordination

1:56:31maybe Department

1:56:33maybe the fire department,

1:56:34and maybe the, Monroe

1:56:39There are other examples.

1:56:40So what we are able to do is I

1:56:44the application around

1:56:47so that we don't have to tell

1:56:48the applicant

1:56:50And coordinate on their own.

1:56:53So we we take the project

1:56:54in that gets circulated

1:56:56The comments come back,

1:56:57there's a project manager

1:56:59that distributes those comments

1:57:01So there's a project manager

1:57:03that is more or less a one

1:57:07and the point of contact,

1:57:10And then at that point

1:57:13and as of right project

1:57:15to the building permit stage.

1:57:17Or if the project requires,

1:57:20some sort of land use, board

1:57:22The other thing to consider

1:57:24is there are generally secret

1:57:28where the project

1:57:31one action,

1:57:34environmental

1:57:36And if the project is

1:57:38a review has to be

1:57:40calls is coordinated,

1:57:43you know,

1:57:44And, and I won't get

1:57:47but it allows the city

1:57:49that project process

1:57:52So site plan review

1:57:53is essentially, a conversation,

1:57:58entity that wants to do

1:57:59one of these things on page two,

1:58:03And a variety of people

1:58:06Absolutely.

1:58:07And I think the other thing

1:58:08to think about site plan

1:58:11to get better projects.

1:58:13And I'll give you an example

1:58:15If we see,

1:58:17I'm going to give an example,

1:58:18to give a location or address.

1:58:20But if we see a project come in

1:58:23associated with it, and there

1:58:28one of the things we looked at,

1:58:30but the developer did

1:58:32until we talked about it

1:58:35process was an internal

1:58:38so that folks arriving at

1:58:42as I said

1:58:43yesterday,

1:58:44trying to get to the front door

1:58:46So that was not something

1:58:47by the developer at the time.

1:58:49But I consider that

1:58:50a win for the city

1:58:52might be arriving

1:58:54by some means

1:58:57So there's a conversation

1:58:59where multiple entities

1:59:00within city

1:59:01can offer feedback to projects

1:59:04Got it.

1:59:05I guess I would,

1:59:08It does sound like,

1:59:10important in some ways

1:59:13touch point, which is how

1:59:15However, I would just point to

1:59:19number three,

1:59:22any new structure

1:59:25in excess of 20,000ft■.

1:59:27So if there is a commercial

1:59:31building of 18,000ft■,

1:59:34they can just go forward

1:59:36without ever having touch point.

1:59:37As long as as long as everything

1:59:41legal and and

1:59:45Correct? Correct.

1:59:46But in,

1:59:49in nine

1:59:54new construction

1:59:57automatically triggers

2:00:00So if someone is building

2:00:03square foot,

2:00:07there was that new construction

2:00:11I think it's a Chipotle

2:00:13You know, a box up,

2:00:17One can build that without

2:00:21with the city,

2:00:24unit apartment building

2:00:27That could be less

2:00:29without having that

2:00:31I understand

2:00:33or my assumption

2:00:35well, that's

2:00:37because there's a huge impact

2:00:39And we need

2:00:42with the applicant

2:00:44I just I some of the

2:00:48about kind of zoning codes

2:00:52well, would we get more

2:00:55I think I would imagine that

2:00:59that difference in who

2:01:02some might

2:01:04to building

2:01:06And I'm just I'm curious

2:01:08Yeah, absolutely.

2:01:11To your first point

2:01:13talking about the one under the

2:01:15can of worms

2:01:17that did go through site plan

2:01:19oriented use.

2:01:20There's

2:01:21So despite the fact that it's

2:01:24it did go through site

2:01:26A couple notes, though,

2:01:28So the existing code considers

2:01:30multifamily dwellings

2:01:33with the existing code

2:01:36and then multifamily,

2:01:38The proposed code is broken down

2:01:42It's single family, two family,

2:01:45and then multifamily.

2:01:46So multifamily is actually five

2:01:50whereas it's three

2:01:53So if someone is building

2:01:58the proposed code, there

2:02:02review trigger as there would be

2:02:05The other thing that I think

2:02:07is the projects that the city

2:02:11multifamily, are very large

2:02:15They tend to be in excess of 90,

2:02:19I don't think there's

2:02:23coming through

2:02:26but if they did what

2:02:29But that point is we don't

2:02:32But I certainly hope by the time

2:02:36evaluating the next zoning code

2:02:3930 years,

2:02:41How there's a lot of five

2:02:44being developed

2:02:47Yeah, I mean, absolutely.

2:02:48And that

2:02:49of what we talked about earlier

2:02:53I mean, we wouldn't know

2:02:54if someone doesn't

2:02:57I, I'm not building multifamily

2:02:58because it's a site

2:03:00But we would know

2:03:02if someone came through

2:03:05oh, I don't want to do this

2:03:06because it's a site

2:03:07Yeah.

2:03:10I'm, you know, pretty confident

2:03:13and this is not for everyone,

2:03:15when they speak to us,

2:03:17they'll say, oh, actually, yeah,

2:03:20Of course, that's

2:03:21Because we're regulatory

2:03:25But I do think

2:03:27to keep track of the point

2:03:32Is it a deterrent or not?

2:03:34I'll go down the line.

2:03:34Councilmember Smith,

2:03:37Outstanding. Here.

2:03:50I. Sure.

2:04:43The quickest answer is the map.

2:04:45So the update to the zoning map,

2:04:48is, especially with

2:04:51which are the large projects

2:04:54when I was, speaking

2:04:56where they are 90 units,

2:04:59they, depending

2:05:03might not be cited in a location

2:05:07So ultimately,

2:05:10and property owners

2:05:13and look at the zoning code

2:05:15this is what the city

2:05:18We should site our project

2:05:20Based on that, Council adopts

2:05:23Council adopts a map.

2:05:24You know, the expectation

2:05:25is that developers

2:05:27are then siting their project

2:05:30where it's permitted.

2:05:31The challenge that we have now,

2:05:34the results

2:05:36where there is a lot,

2:05:37let's say,

2:05:37probably more funding available

2:05:39for affordable housing is that

2:05:42where the map is not reflective

2:05:46which then results in the need

2:05:50which is where timing comes in,

2:05:54to the planning Commission

2:05:56ultimately to city Council.

2:05:57So that adds time.

2:05:59Time is also money.

2:06:01So the

2:06:05that expands the number of areas

2:06:09with increased density

2:06:13benefit to, what I would assume

2:06:17housing folks

2:06:31I. Yeah, I think what I,

2:06:44what I just said, yes, it's

2:06:47And I will say

2:06:48the map was largely developed

2:06:51submitting comments

2:06:52throughout the past

2:06:53if they new projects

2:06:55And if it wasn't

2:06:58you know, the placemaking plan

2:07:00the map was reflective

2:07:02I do know of,

2:07:06I should say I've spoken

2:07:08for the new map because what

2:07:11would be permissible with with

2:07:13what was being proposed

2:07:16Council.

2:07:17A person.

2:07:25Who can still come.

2:07:28Yeah.

2:07:29We're in a bit of a little bit

2:07:30So try to do 2 or 3 questions.

2:07:34So I have amendments for

2:07:3518 related to notification.

2:07:38Can you explain the the broad

2:07:41proposed and notification

2:07:46And I've and I'll wait for the

2:07:48all the detailed answers. But.

2:07:52We can get you more information

2:07:54But broadly speaking

2:07:57as it relates to

2:08:02The published notice

2:08:04with general municipal law,

2:08:06We currently weren't in sync

2:08:08You've heard me talk past

2:08:10Now about trying to,

2:08:14as to not have

2:08:16So that's the reason

2:08:18The other, reason

2:08:20for a switch to electronic

2:08:24the cost associated

2:08:27I will get you more detailed

2:08:29because we do have all

2:08:34So, Councilwoman Monroe.

2:08:39Member Martin,

2:08:41for public hearing notices.

2:08:43One of the biggest things

2:08:46consistently is that tenants

2:08:52And they currently

2:08:54Can you explain that?

2:08:55Yesterday you talked about it

2:08:58But outside of that, are there

2:09:00other reasons

2:09:03Yeah, it's it's

2:09:05that we don't want people

2:09:06who don't

2:09:07own property

2:09:08by any stretch of the

2:09:12Aside from that, you know,

2:09:16without bashing

2:09:17Postal Service,

2:09:18we receive back

2:09:19a significant amount

2:09:22which is a significant cost

2:09:24So the conversation around

2:09:28does like for obvious reasons,

2:09:31is challenging

2:09:34is not something

2:09:37The other challenges

2:09:38for anyone

2:09:40building

2:09:40where the mail

2:09:41gets dropped off in the front

2:09:43of apartment number 36,

2:09:47Everything would

2:09:48just get stacked in a big thing

2:09:51fliers that end up

2:09:54So we had a lot of conversations

2:09:57of that,

2:09:58as it relates to what

2:10:02their way to the, tenants

2:10:06And the thought was, it is

2:10:10To that end, I do think it is

2:10:13on us as NBD staff

2:10:17explore opportunities

2:10:20We didn't do it as part of this

2:10:24the postcards are a big thing,

2:10:27you know, upset the applecart,

2:10:29But I do think

2:10:30as we submit the report

2:10:33have you looked at a listserv

2:10:34where people can sign up

2:10:36where it just happens

2:10:39or something like that

2:10:41I do think

2:10:43I did a follow up question.

2:10:45Have you all ever gone to people

2:10:48and just posted something

2:10:50that says, this is happening

2:10:53We have not.

2:10:54Property owners are required to

2:10:57that is of some size

2:11:00application,

2:11:02and then a phone number

2:11:05And then it connects

2:11:07that can provide

2:11:09But no, we do not hand-deliver

2:11:11looking more at post

2:11:16that's actually

2:11:17It also allows people that maybe

2:11:19work in the area

2:11:21but don't necessarily

2:11:23Maybe also the opportunity

2:11:27and around community gardens,

2:11:30which this is open

2:11:32Can they become,

2:11:38Can can what, like a community

2:11:40Like, can they be part of a

2:11:42preservation district

2:11:45Well, if it gets approved.

2:11:47So there's a process to,

2:11:50And I believe

2:11:52from both the Planning

2:11:54and the preservation board.

2:11:55So you'll find that

2:11:57but it'll be procedures

2:11:59Commission

2:12:01And there's certain criteria

2:12:02to be met in order to achieve

2:12:05in the procedure.

2:12:06So one of the ways

2:12:07would be the folks running

2:12:11Yes, yes, I would want to review

2:12:14But yes, there are, established

2:12:17Great. Thank you. As a members.

2:12:23Thank you.

2:12:24I'm going

2:12:28And it's kind of in line with

2:12:31and making sure

2:12:34what's happening with

2:12:37and bringing back

2:12:40I had in the very beginning

2:12:42the purpose statement,

2:12:45So one of the concerns I do

2:12:49specifically about costs

2:12:52I get some of those things

2:12:57But to achieve equity,

2:13:00And so one of the things

2:13:03that we will have a conversation

2:13:06not only with the

2:13:07administration,

2:13:09is around how do we find a path

2:13:13where a single mother

2:13:16two jobs knows what's happening

2:13:22where that individual

2:13:29To make their

2:13:30case or to push back

2:13:33who has all the time

2:13:36that lives in an affluent

2:13:39I think what happens

2:13:41in our community,

2:13:44what happens in our communities

2:13:46is those that have the time

2:13:49get to make decisions

2:13:52and those

2:13:55see things happen to them

2:13:58I'll just say pretty bluntly.

2:14:02Lisle Avenue,

2:14:04North Clinton Avenue,

2:14:06Joseph Avenue, Hudson Avenue

2:14:09may not have as much time

2:14:14and we need to find a way

2:14:16from an equity standpoint

2:14:19as a governing entity

2:14:23that we create pathways

2:14:28and to have their voice

2:14:30And it may require us

2:14:33not just noticing,

2:14:35but are there other tools

2:14:38to ensure that we're doing

2:14:41communities that are often

2:14:45And I just say that to all of us

2:14:47that we have to find a path

2:14:50I don't know what

2:14:53I think we've all been racking

2:14:56thinking about, okay,

2:14:57if it's not this,

2:14:59but it has to be something

2:15:02more as a comment

2:15:04But thank

2:15:08Can I just

2:15:09I just want to ask specifically

2:15:13you talked about the cost

2:15:15to go to constituents, but

2:15:19to quantify the amount,

2:15:23We can do that.

2:15:24I think that'd be

2:15:25to say to see Councilmember

2:15:28Along those lines of notice,

2:15:33somebody famous said

2:15:35the purpose of a system

2:15:37And I heard you say that

2:15:39it's not the intention by any

2:15:42to not include

2:15:46But that is exactly

2:15:48And so to echo my colleagues,

2:15:51we do need to fix this problem.

2:15:53Because we are 65% runner,

2:15:5765% of our population.

2:15:59Just because they might not

2:16:02But I wanted to offer

2:16:04Because I know

2:16:06you can buy for very cheap

2:16:08zip codes,

2:16:09you know,

2:16:10penny savers in our mailboxes.

2:16:12That doesn't really cost much.

2:16:14So I would love to see,

2:16:16of doing that versus postcards

2:16:20like individually

2:16:22So they're

2:16:25For the

2:16:28fees, is there, mechanism to,

2:16:32have fees waived for income

2:16:39We we don't currently

2:16:42I'll be very honest.

2:16:43We, did not even raise

2:16:48from the, 2003 code to 2026.

2:16:53The economics of that are

2:16:56in many ways,

2:16:58and the amount that we're paying

2:17:02So, there is the answer

2:17:05there is no mechanism within

2:17:08Is that something

2:17:10or would that be handled

2:17:13The answer to that, we could

2:17:16Okay. I'd want to explore

2:17:18Thank you.

2:17:22Given that

2:17:22we've, you know, recently,

2:17:25had before us

2:17:28deal with, outdoor encampments

2:17:33It does not.

2:17:34Okay.

2:17:35And so if it exists

2:17:37how do we handle that?

2:17:39That would we can

2:17:40Okay. Thank you.

2:17:42And then,

2:17:45one question somebody had that

2:17:48how would we classify

2:17:49an immigration detention

2:17:53We I will we will get back to

2:17:55Thank you.

2:17:57Councilmember Leslie Smith.

2:18:01I want to,

2:18:02very intentionally

2:18:06horse here on the notification

2:18:10has it already been mentioned,

2:18:14are renters,

2:18:15and currently

2:18:18those folks

2:18:20So I do think that it would be

2:18:24to our code

2:18:27And if we do send postcards,

2:18:30send it to resident

2:18:31as opposed to address

2:18:33because

2:18:35It would go to

2:18:36whoever is living in the unit

2:18:40And I would love to see,

2:18:44as opposed to going down

2:18:48And of course, yesterday

2:18:49about all sorts of various types

2:18:53You know,

2:18:54geo profiling, all of these

2:18:58So hopefully the administration

2:19:01to ensure that there is

2:19:07Very intentionally.

2:19:18Let's see.

2:19:21There are some areas

2:19:26in the previous

2:19:29that were prohibited variances

2:19:34Now and so

2:19:37totally gone.

2:19:38They're totally gone.

2:19:39But prohibited variance section

2:19:41Correct. Okay.

2:19:43So now how would we know

2:19:47that would sort of

2:19:51So without going through

2:19:53I think there's seven of them

2:19:55the prohibited variance,

2:19:59is if you look in the use chart

2:20:03when there's no color in

2:20:06that means the use

2:20:09it means it's not allowed

2:20:11But if the applicant

2:20:14it becomes

2:20:16Which is a financial hardship

2:20:19the property.

2:20:20And so there were a,

2:20:24fair number

2:20:26where you couldn't apply for

2:20:30under the existing code.

2:20:32I think the city,

2:20:35to strictly prohibit

2:20:39But zoning, being a local tool

2:20:42valve that was, that was removed

2:20:44and that was also part of 2034.

2:20:46So you can now always apply

2:20:51even if something is not

2:20:53And the application process

2:20:57That's correct. Absolutely.

2:20:58You got it. Great great, great.

2:21:00And then just lastly,

2:21:03I guess

2:21:05that we have decreased

2:21:09and yet we have this housing

2:21:13And the zoning code

2:21:16to create more units.

2:21:18But how do if if we were a city

2:21:21for about 300,000 folks, then

2:21:26What does the zoning code

2:21:29Yeah,

2:21:31And probably an entire different

2:21:33But I am going to give you,

2:21:37I think may assist with framing

2:21:40So as part of 2034,

2:21:43market study,

2:21:45Housing Wide Markets Citywide

2:21:48An update to

2:21:52It's available

2:21:54One of the things

2:21:57well,

2:21:58things that came out of that.

2:21:59The city was divided up

2:22:03and different,

2:22:04data points were used

2:22:07you know, owner occupancy

2:22:08and number of code violations

2:22:11But one of the things that was

2:22:15chronically

2:22:17units across the city

2:22:18just not rehabbing

2:22:20And the reason for that

2:22:23for that,

2:22:26But I think

2:22:27comes in to that is recognizing

2:22:31a number of stronger submarkets,

2:22:33some of the weaker submarkets,

2:22:35to build inclusivity

2:22:37into those stronger markets

2:22:40dwelling units.

2:22:42And what that does

2:22:45within the larger Monroe County,

2:22:48is working

2:22:51to try to concentrate

2:22:54zoning is not going to be

2:22:56It's not even going to probably

2:22:59But what it can do is work

2:23:03stronger submarkets, as outlined

2:23:08while pushing into,

2:23:09I'll say the words

2:23:10pushing into to strengthen

2:23:12some of the markets that

2:23:15And there is some data in the

2:23:18that that is in fact,

2:23:21So I think in terms of

2:23:23the expansion

2:23:28going crazy and doing something

2:23:30is actually going to push

2:23:35It's it's giving a little bit

2:23:37by way of more medium density,

2:23:41accessory dwelling units,

2:23:44to close that gap

2:23:49Vice president.

2:23:52Thank you.

2:23:54I'm not sure of anyone

2:23:56that was not present here

2:23:59the mindset of the

2:24:03up, moving the elders

2:24:07by making moving the low density

2:24:11to more of a mixed use density

2:24:15In particular,

2:24:16in South District, there was

2:24:20it affected at least

2:24:24It looked like it affected a lot

2:24:27in particular the preservation,

2:24:31and the part that was listed

2:24:35Can you talk more about how

2:24:39Sure.

2:24:40So the, I'll say a little bit

2:24:42defer to my colleague

2:24:44So the zoning map was largely,

2:24:49or was derived

2:24:50from the placemaking plan

2:24:52It was at 30,000ft,

2:24:55It wasn't at a parcel level.

2:24:57There were some criteria

2:25:00the map over things like is it

2:25:03Is that an area

2:25:06What is the existing built

2:25:08What are the uses within

2:25:11Those sort of criteria

2:25:14But as with anything that we do,

2:25:16it's not a perfect science,

2:25:17There's going to be one offs.

2:25:18There's going to be, areas

2:25:23differently

2:25:25where it doesn't always work

2:25:28But largely it came from

2:25:31some of that criteria.

2:25:33Kevin, I don't know if you want

2:25:35or I could add a few

2:25:39A huge part of this is

2:25:40just about consistency,

2:25:43the major factors as we were

2:25:45which we knew would lead to this

2:25:48Eventually,

2:25:49and consistency

2:25:52consistency

2:25:53So on the residential side of

2:25:57as we Matt

2:26:00that we use

2:26:01should this, the LDR,

2:26:04And a big part of that,

2:26:07at the number of units

2:26:09And so we literally mapped

2:26:11that out and had a, you know,

2:26:14Now, you can't necessarily

2:26:18in a parcel level on

2:26:20where the singles are,

2:26:22for property by property,

2:26:25complex zoning map imaginable.

2:26:27So you have to look for

2:26:30you know, being absolutist

2:26:32That's a double.

2:26:33Then that's a that's an MDR

2:26:35But as we looked at the patterns

2:26:38of placement of doubles,

2:26:40you start to see where the edges

2:26:44come together.

2:26:45And as Matt said, it's

2:26:48but we kind of

2:26:50what edge

2:26:51made the most sense

2:26:53an LDR and an MDR

2:26:55and then brought it

2:26:57and then brought it

2:26:58and refined those edges,

2:27:00refined it both at the

2:27:01placemaking plan stage in 2034,

2:27:05during zoning.

2:27:06So that's a residential example.

2:27:08And then the applying

2:27:11the mixed use

2:27:15There's a fair amount of,

2:27:17I would say the current map

2:27:19there's a fair amount of

2:27:20inconsistency with a difference

2:27:23and I'll say perhaps

2:27:27element going on there

2:27:29neighborhoods

2:27:31their, their commercial corridor

2:27:33C1 and C2 or vice versa.

2:27:37And we try to design this map

2:27:40and equitable

2:27:41based on

2:27:43and what the city's vision is,

2:27:47the most vocal

2:27:50that happen

2:27:52would want to see

2:27:54So we try to apply that

2:27:55that a boutique mixed use

2:27:57district is really

2:27:59where there's some commercial

2:28:01and a neighborhood mixed use

2:28:02district

2:28:04and really kind of stick

2:28:06So a lot has been changed

2:28:08I like to, also,

2:28:12It really gives me an idea of

2:28:15But I'd like to push back

2:28:17because there are neighborhoods

2:28:18that did go through Preservation

2:28:21that take a lot of money.

2:28:23National Historic Registry,

2:28:24the historic place

2:28:26Neighborhood came together,

2:28:27and that was done with more

2:28:30And I'd like to know,

2:28:33affect those negatively

2:28:36Even if you can get that to me

2:28:39what would it be?

2:28:41Would it be acceptable for you

2:28:43the particular districts

2:28:45in the map that you like

2:28:47Absolutely. That work for you?

2:28:49We we looking in corn Hill corn

2:28:52who has a preservation district.

2:28:54I know that in South Wedge

2:28:55they have particularly and I'm

2:29:00the south wedge area.

2:29:01We also have the 19th Ward.

2:29:02There's the National

2:29:05There's four districts.

2:29:07There's a part of the

2:29:09of Historic Places,

2:29:10and I'm sure there's

2:29:14Of course, the South

2:29:16but there are many,

2:29:21because as the preservation

2:29:24that the residents have made

2:29:27comments to me and my meeting

2:29:30that those are things

2:29:32Yeah, absolutely.

2:29:33If you can work with we'll work

2:29:35with the council office

2:29:37But outlining those areas,

2:29:39we could definitely

2:29:40Thank you.

2:29:41As of course. Thanks.

2:29:42And those are those would be

2:29:45XYZ locations

2:29:48Definitely. And what impact?

2:29:50I'll definitely put that

2:29:52Last general

2:29:59Data centers

2:30:02are those things that we can

2:30:08So I'll answer that.

2:30:09Right now, as you know,

2:30:13with New York State,

2:30:15we would look to see

2:30:17with all that

2:30:20How what about fracking?

2:30:23Is that prohibited?

2:30:26A statewide ban?

2:30:28Okay, we'll confirm that, but

2:30:31Okay.

2:30:32Because certainly

2:30:35the governor

2:30:37And the company read that runs

2:30:41all the mechanicals over there,

2:30:44Submitted.

2:30:45So certainly don't want

2:30:48a nuclear power plant,

2:30:52And also I think it would

2:30:54kind of hurt the

2:30:55entire city in the area

2:30:58And then the other piece

2:31:00Yeah.

2:31:01Certainly would want to.

2:31:04Be in front of that,

2:31:07and it seems like we'd

2:31:08be a natural place for them

2:31:12Understood.

2:31:13Well, and I wonder, as a follow

2:31:16as much as there's

2:31:19I understand

2:31:22as a definition in here

2:31:26Data centers were the top

2:31:28But I would like to ask

2:31:29a specific question of is

2:31:32what a data center

2:31:33would be an applicable part

2:31:36Or if not,

2:31:39we add a data center definition

2:31:43given where we are

2:31:45Yeah, absolutely.

2:31:46Absolutely.

2:31:47As the deputy mayor said,

2:31:49And as I understand it,

2:31:52some other uses in past years,

2:31:55guidance

2:31:56It generally happens

2:31:59where we I'm saying

2:32:02here, would be able

2:32:07Councilman Martin, last question

2:32:10Sorry, I have to

2:32:12they might have to go

2:32:13so we can have time

2:32:14It sounds great.

2:32:16So following up on the data

2:32:20can we go

2:32:22Let's say the governor decides

2:32:26only for one year.

2:32:27Can council,

2:32:31within city limits.

2:32:36Yeah.

2:32:37Historically, there are various

2:32:39So we'll look at that

2:32:41Sounds good.

2:32:41Thank you.

2:32:42Last question is about,

2:32:45in Rochester 2034, for example,

2:32:50When I look at the plan,

2:32:51it says who was here at the time

2:32:55Since a lot of what we're doing

2:32:59list of who was involved

2:33:05That would

2:33:06I figure.

2:33:08Do you mean authoring

2:33:11It was primarily

2:33:13Planning, myself

2:33:15Meyer, Elizabeth Murphy

2:33:17Gotcha. That's really helpful.

2:33:19And also with the zoning code,

2:33:23for authoring the amendments.

2:33:28We can provide that to you.

2:33:29Perfect. Thank you.

2:33:30Okay, so let's transition

2:33:33here, which is, ostensibly

2:33:37We just talked about data

2:33:39So let's just cut directly

2:33:41to the, questions about STRs

2:33:45Specifically, why are STRs

2:33:50and what would be

2:33:55becoming,

2:33:57And what would the timeline be

2:34:00Deputy mayor,

2:34:02Thanks for the opportunity

2:34:05I think it's safe to say

2:34:08in the minds of everyone,

2:34:11But I think you all know

2:34:12a little a little bit of trouble

2:34:15How do I sound?

2:34:16As better? Much better.

2:34:17It's like I'm in stereo.

2:34:19I think all of you know,

2:34:21for the record,

2:34:24really lays silent to stress.

2:34:27It was not something

2:34:28that would have been thought

2:34:29And so therefore,

2:34:32As a final draft

2:34:35provisions addressing staffers

2:34:38received from the public,

2:34:42Those provisions

2:34:45in certain areas,

2:34:47both those that currently exist

2:34:52As we looked

2:34:54that proposed draft,

2:34:56we undertook an exercise

2:34:58much like council has gone

2:35:02throughout

2:35:03And we looked at a number

2:35:06throughout the draft

2:35:08whether something

2:35:10not restrictive

2:35:13We looked at how

2:35:15We concluded that the approach

2:35:19to those who currently own

2:35:24that the proposed draft

2:35:27And essentially,

2:35:31it would have forced

2:35:33operation of those properties

2:35:37That did not seem reasonable

2:35:42do not generate many calls

2:35:45and require a significant level

2:35:49if one wishes to have

2:35:53it also would have withdrawn

2:35:56that is valued by some visitors

2:35:59including families with children

2:36:02and others for whom a hotel

2:36:05for whatever

2:36:08In reaching that conclusion,

2:36:11items of note which I think

2:36:15First of all, being equal,

2:36:17a dwelling operating as an STR

2:36:22available for long term

2:36:27by long term residence.

2:36:29This is not entirely a zero

2:36:32however, and we aim to expand

2:36:36a wide range of options

2:36:40Second,

2:36:41my statement

2:36:44should absolutely not

2:36:47that stars are never

2:36:51We all know we all can name

2:36:54held in stairs that have gone

2:36:59to address

2:37:02As I mentioned earlier,

2:37:05to allow existing stars

2:37:08in all areas of the city

2:37:12provided that they do not have

2:37:15outstanding nuisance points

2:37:18and have not generated

2:37:23In taking this approach,

2:37:26the areas of concern that we had

2:37:29and have maintained

2:37:31while

2:37:34that have been problematic

2:37:35and have been detrimental

2:37:39As part of this,

2:37:41we would need to develop

2:37:44to compel these stars

2:37:48be subject to all city

2:37:53and then be issued a permit

2:37:57requiring periodic renewal

2:38:03As we finalize

2:38:05as part of the draft.

2:38:06As part of this legislation,

2:38:09it was made clear

2:38:11a material change Zap,

2:38:15Environmental Quality Act review

2:38:17and vetting by the Planning

2:38:20Before we could refer

2:38:23to you

2:38:25we estimate that completing

2:38:28which could formally begin

2:38:32and presumably hopefully pass,

2:38:35would take

2:38:37It could take as much as nine,

2:38:41than that.

2:38:43There's a downside

2:38:46and I think it's important

2:38:47that to give you the lens

2:38:50the downside is that you would

2:38:55that leaves stars in their

2:38:59for at least

2:39:01So we would continue doing,

2:39:06The upside

2:39:09to provide your recommendations

2:39:12and have those incorporated

2:39:16as the proposal makes its way

2:39:19Impact Assessment

2:39:22before then, a formal referral

2:39:27it goes without saying.

2:39:28Council is ultimately

2:39:31that has the authority

2:39:33to pass this zoning code,

2:39:36Clearly, we recommend

2:39:38breaking them out,

2:39:41because we believe

2:39:42staff to move forward sooner

2:39:45and allow

2:39:46this important topic

2:39:49and focused due

2:39:54Thank you.

2:39:55I have a couple questions,

2:39:57So last night, Councilmember

2:40:01specifically about

2:40:05that is on the website

2:40:06is the final proposal

2:40:09or if there were

2:40:10changes to that proposal,

2:40:13So whether the proposal

2:40:16is is the proposal that if,

2:40:19the current zap

2:40:20tomorrow with that proposal

2:40:24come to us in the Environmental

2:40:27So with regard to STRs

2:40:30STR piece is it

2:40:33of the administration's

2:40:34It is

2:40:38but it is also a proposal

2:40:40that given that it hasn't gone

2:40:44Council could look at it

2:40:48we have a consensus

2:40:51this adjustment, that adjustment

2:40:54at that point

2:40:55we would work through

2:40:58And then it would be

2:41:01that reflects whatever

2:41:05that would move through

2:41:08So it kind of gives you a unique

2:41:13versus, you know, where we are

2:41:16is the process we're working

2:41:19which amendments

2:41:22and then understanding,

2:41:24you know, with the

2:41:27which of these are

2:41:28not material and wouldn't

2:41:32and which of them are

2:41:34then make that form

2:41:35I would, just clarifying that.

2:41:37Yeah. The

2:41:38the STF proposal on Rochester

2:41:42It is the proposal.

2:41:45And so if from a timeline

2:41:48if council wanted to weave that

2:41:53we would have to go back to an

2:41:56Can you talk about what timeline

2:42:00Yeah.

2:42:01I mean, let the corporation

2:42:03Yeah.

2:42:04And we don't have a specific

2:42:06That gets to the part of,

2:42:09where we talk about 3 to 9

2:42:12while we have this drafted,

2:42:13we haven't done

2:42:15And, you know,

2:42:19So ideally, right,

2:42:20if it's not going to change

2:42:24in a way that impacts

2:42:26impacts parking

2:42:28then this could move

2:42:30I think

2:42:32But if we take the hard look

2:42:33and we decide, oh,

2:42:34you know

2:42:35this, we've got to mitigate

2:42:37we've got to figure out how

2:42:39It could take longer.

2:42:40So that's if it stays separate.

2:42:42And part part of

2:42:45the decisions of environmental

2:42:48which none of us in this room

2:42:51Correct.

2:42:52But if there was a desire

2:42:54no, no, no,

2:42:56on a zoning code

2:42:59How long would it take to weave

2:43:03so we could pop it right in?

2:43:05But then that whole

2:43:08would have to happen.

2:43:09Still with the code. Right?

2:43:11So now the code is attached

2:43:13and we've still got to do all

2:43:14that with the code

2:43:16So that means the whole zap gets

2:43:19So the 3 to 9 month window

2:43:22could either happen

2:43:24and we can have public

2:43:27we can talk about the proposal,

2:43:28we can come up with our own

2:43:30or we can have 3 to 9 months

2:43:36Correct? Okay.

2:43:38I have

2:43:39more thing,

2:43:40but I don't want to hog the mic

2:43:42So let me start down the line

2:43:43Council vice president

2:43:46Do you have any questions?

2:43:47Vice president

2:43:49Councilmember Leslie Smith.

2:43:53I think

2:43:54just first of all,

2:43:56because that is very helpful

2:43:59You know,

2:44:01some of us have been waiting for

2:44:05and I've always found it

2:44:08because there's nothing

2:44:12But I am very curious

2:44:17for the city,

2:44:21given the fact

2:44:23how difficult

2:44:26ADUs not becoming, stars.

2:44:30So I'd love perhaps in writing,

2:44:34too much time tonight on what

2:44:37I'd also like to understand

2:44:39if zoning would be adding

2:44:42Will additional coding

2:44:45Is there additional training?

2:44:47I'd like for us to personally

2:44:51code inspection

2:44:53so that we can

2:44:56and hopefully get a handle on

2:44:59we're seeing here.

2:45:00Yeah. So a lot to unpack there.

2:45:02The work session

2:45:03and code enforcement

2:45:07I think you all are consumed

2:45:09So we'll give a little grace

2:45:11From a scheduling standpoint,

2:45:13the administrative process

2:45:16from an outline perspective,

2:45:19certainly with regard to stress.

2:45:21And I think it's true

2:45:24You know, one of the things

2:45:26continuously

2:45:29that hopefully

2:45:31is not listening from home,

2:45:35Right.

2:45:36And to make sure that we've got

2:45:38the right level of staff

2:45:44and what the code calls

2:45:46So that's,

2:45:48an ongoing evaluation,

2:45:50but we'll address

2:45:52around the process in writing.

2:45:56President Melendez.

2:45:59Yes. Thank you.

2:46:00I appreciate the clarity,

2:46:06So I don't think I have any more

2:46:07questions right now,

2:46:12and this is true of any time

2:46:14In terms of this wide

2:46:18could you speak to what

2:46:22component will be for both staff

2:46:26and then how much grace

2:46:29do we give community

2:46:32I'm imagining there's

2:46:35in terms of fines and challenges

2:46:40And then finally,

2:46:43So I know that we got to have

2:46:45I, I'm imagining

2:46:48is probably going to receive

2:46:50are going to receive

2:46:52So just kind of overall,

2:46:56what does the implementation

2:46:58Absolutely great.

2:47:00I'll try to touch

2:47:02So, we have internally already

2:47:06I'll say cross department wide

2:47:10and staff and the law department

2:47:14high level concepts,

2:47:16yesterday with council,

2:47:17because there will be a shift

2:47:21So people need to understand

2:47:22So we've already met with,

2:47:24of course, zoning

2:47:26you know,

2:47:27that work on a lot of this stuff

2:47:28for them to begin understanding

2:47:32that will continue

2:47:35zoning staff, obviously,

2:47:37But we will then also include,

2:47:41service center directors,

2:47:43code enforcement

2:47:46trainings because they are

2:47:50As it relates to the community,

2:47:51there's actually

2:47:53I believe, in the draft generic

2:47:57about doing some potential

2:48:00open houses with the community,

2:48:02with the community

2:48:06you know, a year out

2:48:08out or whatever

2:48:10with the community about it

2:48:13to learn more about it,

2:48:15and they can also meet the staff

2:48:19So that is all ongoing.

2:48:21It's being done in a manner

2:48:25all city employees

2:48:27within cross departments

2:48:30touch points

2:48:34and just one follow up there.

2:48:35So I believe if I remember

2:48:39this takes effect

2:48:43Something to that effect.

2:48:44Yeah, I think you

2:48:45the first day of the full month

2:48:50So by way of example,

2:48:53it would be December 1st.

2:48:55And that lag is,

2:48:58But also about making sure

2:49:01that are in process

2:49:03are dealt

2:49:04with appropriately before we

2:49:07I think it's also just trying

2:49:09you know, at the permit counter

2:49:11one day

2:49:13but if you come back

2:49:15you can do all these

2:49:16So it gives that little bit

2:49:19That is not we didn't want it

2:49:23Sure. That that makes sense.

2:49:24And and the last follow up to

2:49:26is in terms of how the community

2:49:30So thinking about

2:49:36kind of frame this.

2:49:37Right.

2:49:39You know, community

2:49:42Something has changed

2:49:44and they don't

2:49:48December 2nd.

2:49:49How do we work

2:49:51And that's very nuanced.

2:49:53And that's

2:49:54but then also on the flip side,

2:49:56as we begin to think about fines

2:49:59for changes that have occurred,

2:50:02Is it we're

2:50:04giving grace for six months

2:50:06To your first point,

2:50:08there will be

2:50:10that will need to be made

2:50:11just in conjunction

2:50:12about when

2:50:14occurred and subsequently, which

2:50:18We do this pretty regularly

2:50:20The building code makes updates.

2:50:22The building staff

2:50:24we work on this,

2:50:26So we have some examples

2:50:30the zoning code,

2:50:31as it relates to onboarding

2:50:32with the community

2:50:34Grace periods, code enforcement,

2:50:36those will have to be ongoing

2:50:37conversations with

2:50:41I would want to engage with,

2:50:43Deputy Commissioner Reed,

2:50:47About that and how we can,

2:50:51mesh that

2:50:54I will just say in that regard,

2:50:56do no harm is a good principle

2:50:59Right.

2:51:00And it's back to your earlier

2:51:02and being mindful of that. So,

2:51:06Councilmember Martin.

2:51:09So how many versions

2:51:13of the SDR portion

2:51:17based on the letter we got,

2:51:24Yeah.

2:51:25So I think there was,

2:51:27and that will correct me

2:51:30when a draft code

2:51:32I think there was one approach.

2:51:34There was more public outreach

2:51:37And then, a different approach

2:51:40which was initially part

2:51:43and then as the deputy mayor,

2:51:46that was changed

2:51:50I think there

2:51:52Got it, got it.

2:51:53So I'd like you all

2:51:56a little bit around,

2:52:00That would have to be

2:52:01So just walk me through how you

2:52:06the second one,

2:52:08And ideally with red lines of,

2:52:11what was added in the same way

2:52:16And my final question on stars,

2:52:24I guess,

2:52:27recognizing in agreement

2:52:29that this is, you know,

2:52:30one of the most important issues

2:52:34balancing that with

2:52:36postponing it

2:52:38change after several years.

2:52:40Walk me through that analysis.

2:52:44Happy to get into more detail

2:52:47you know, we we went through

2:52:50Right.

2:52:51And kind of took that, took

2:52:53You'll do that as well. Right.

2:52:55So you'll, you,

2:52:59questions

2:53:01You know, we already have some

2:53:03member has some amendments

2:53:06You're you're what

2:53:10is the same thing that we went

2:53:14you know, what do we

2:53:16And I and I think on this issue,

2:53:20that it made sense to,

2:53:23at the risk of adding more time,

2:53:26to try to get this right,

2:53:29You know, you all may look at it

2:53:32and say,

2:53:34we appreciate your effort, but,

2:53:37we have a different view on

2:53:40Right.

2:53:41So I think it's

2:53:43that line and trying to balance

2:53:46the things that, that

2:53:50And thank you all for being here

2:53:52you've done on this.

2:53:53Yeah. Thank you.

2:53:54Councilmember Monroe. I'm.

2:54:01So I'm starting

2:54:02by looking at boarding houses.

2:54:05If you go to article

2:54:09and we see that,

2:54:11one of the requirements,

2:54:15says only in an existing

2:54:19as of the effective date

2:54:21of this code and owner occupancy

2:54:24the dwelling

2:54:26primary residence,

2:54:28must be reserved

2:54:32Is that to say that

2:54:36are no longer allowed,

2:54:42certain boarding houses?

2:54:46Or existing boarding houses?

2:54:49Yeah.

2:54:49So, more broadly

2:54:52So they have a building permit

2:54:53and a subsequent

2:54:56There would be no change

2:55:00operations.

2:55:02So unless, for instance,

2:55:05in elders.

2:55:09In the proposed code.

2:55:11Right.

2:55:12So the ones that are

2:55:14they could be okay,

2:55:18And until such time

2:55:22and then that use would be lost

2:55:25it would, it would be impacted

2:55:28So the use of land runs

2:55:32or the legal use of the land

2:55:34not necessarily

2:55:37So if someone has

2:55:41or has,

2:55:44and the property sells,

2:55:47the new owner

2:55:49So as long as it's

2:55:51within that previous approval,

2:55:54if for some reason

2:55:55and says, hey,

2:55:57from boarding house

2:56:00then the rights to

2:56:03Similarly,

2:56:07vacant,

2:56:09clause where if a non-conforming

2:56:11use goes vacant for nine months,

2:56:14That is, different.

2:56:16Now, I will get back to

2:56:17very specific and I want to give

2:56:20that has been there is some,

2:56:24I'll say, loss, but it's not

2:56:28Okay.

2:56:28So I can get back to you

2:56:29in writing

2:56:32or the provisions

2:56:34Which is helpful,

2:56:38My point here is that a boarding

2:56:42is not allowed in low density

2:56:49STR regulations that

2:56:50you want to propose.

2:56:54They are not boarding houses,

2:56:59are allowed by a permit

2:57:04two other requirements

2:57:08could be in an LDR.

2:57:13And so I see

2:57:14sleeping units,

2:57:18How does that compare

2:57:23So the there's no

2:57:26we just verify this before

2:57:30So the bed and breakfast

2:57:33let's say

2:57:34or you know what I,

2:57:37which is in the existing

2:57:41not part of the proposed code

2:57:44into what you're reading from,

2:57:46as it relates to

2:57:49you're referring to,

2:57:50that's going to have to be

2:57:51determined

2:57:54that, corporation Counsel

2:57:58To actually do that evaluation.

2:58:01Yeah, I was looking up for

2:58:03the definition for B

2:58:05And that's because then B and B

2:58:08term rental.

2:58:09Yeah.

2:58:10The the thought there was

2:58:12the word traditional bed

2:58:15precursor to short term

2:58:20we have seen in years

2:58:23I think there was 110 years ago.

2:58:26So when I look at

2:58:31in the April version

2:58:34of the, of the zap

2:58:38with greater restrictions,

2:58:40rentals are not allowed

2:58:45And then that change was made,

2:58:49was that there were a number

2:58:52because it would

2:58:54So conceivably

2:58:56we could

2:58:57simply write something in

2:59:00so that if they continue

2:59:04they can continue with that use

2:59:08and now allowing them to be in

2:59:09low density residential

2:59:12As an example,

2:59:15to the

2:59:23And then

2:59:25the other

2:59:29as we look

2:59:32and the comment was made

2:59:35commenting on this

2:59:38how many of those comments

2:59:41or corporations that now own

2:59:45a number of properties

2:59:48who then are, for instance,

2:59:52There's a project going on.

2:59:53They're letting it out

2:59:55So now you have,

2:59:59of people who are working.

3:00:01And that certainly isn't

3:00:04But as we talk about one,

3:00:07that we are protecting

3:00:09that it is actually here

3:00:13And then two,

3:00:16to adding more transparency

3:00:20And we know that that's

3:00:22one of the big things

3:00:25You know,

3:00:29and then they have to end up

3:00:31and then you constantly

3:00:33Those are all

3:00:35that eat away at community

3:00:37that make it so people

3:00:38don't know who that kid is

3:00:42or, you know that, oh,

3:00:45All of those types of

3:00:49I have many

3:00:51concerns about the here and,

3:00:55And I will leave it there.

3:00:59Councilman Patterson.

3:01:04Okay,

3:01:05so this is for my colleagues

3:01:08I urge us to avoid looking into

3:01:11short term rentals at this time.

3:01:15I'm just looking here

3:01:17You know, I guy,

3:01:20the majority

3:01:22that are on that are available

3:01:26So it's East

3:01:27northwest in the northeast.

3:01:29I virtually have none

3:01:32A bigger concern

3:01:33that I encourage folks

3:01:37is a greater concern

3:01:41We can get to that.

3:01:42I think another issue

3:01:44be looking at,

3:01:45which is kind of pairs nicely

3:01:48Monroe was talking about, is

3:01:52and in the East District,

3:01:55and where we have

3:02:00temporary housing,

3:02:02that were in the past,

3:02:04in my lived experience

3:02:07city residents

3:02:08lived in the southeast,

3:02:12you, our kids,

3:02:13were afraid to cross the bridge.

3:02:15So they stayed over there.

3:02:17They might

3:02:18they might live somewhere

3:02:19but they wasn't really coming

3:02:21They're now they're everywhere.

3:02:24Nothing wrong with that.

3:02:25But we need to look at what

3:02:28We also need to look

3:02:31So the challenge

3:02:34who are receiving whose housing

3:02:38who are just like those kids.

3:02:40They're effectively

3:02:45those are effectively rooming

3:02:47in low density neighborhoods.

3:02:48Now, I have no interest

3:02:53in state law says I have to

3:02:57the folks who are on DHS.

3:03:00So and this is in the questions

3:03:01that I've already sent

3:03:03So they've got all this stuff,

3:03:05But look, folks,

3:03:06let's not let's not get lost

3:03:09Let's take the advice

3:03:12In this case,

3:03:13let's get this app done, deal

3:03:17and then come back to short term

3:03:20I'm not going well, I don't mind

3:03:23Today

3:03:25where I go real quick,

3:03:28My experience,

3:03:31getting out and going out

3:03:33to different communities,

3:03:37that this was an option,

3:03:40instead of staying at the hotel

3:03:42where I learned

3:03:44I would stay in a short term

3:03:45And man, that was an incredible

3:03:49And I stopped doing it

3:03:51as cool as this apartment

3:03:54and somebody else's community

3:03:57I was taking away an apartment

3:04:00for a long period of time

3:04:02a full time resident,

3:04:04And I needed to

3:04:07and just

3:04:10So that's my position on it.

3:04:13That's

3:04:15But and that's a and that is

3:04:18But today I just beg y'all,

3:04:22and look into short

3:04:24We've got it on

3:04:25the stuff in

3:04:25is that

3:04:26that is vitally important

3:04:28and development

3:04:29We need to focus our energy

3:04:32and come back to this.

3:04:33Thank you.

3:04:33Councilmember Smith.

3:04:37Yeah, we're not going to have

3:04:39we're not going to have

3:04:40on let's have debate off stage

3:04:44After

3:04:46now you want to request.

3:04:48But this is the way it goes.

3:04:49I'm I gotta admit, I, I hear

3:04:53Thank you for that.

3:04:54But I just want to make a note

3:04:56to the administration is

3:04:57that we've asked for things

3:05:00and then we get up

3:05:02and then those, like we

3:05:03we went through that

3:05:04So I'm just going to request

3:05:06that if we say we're

3:05:08that we're giving it

3:05:10so that we can make the proper

3:05:14an adequate amount of time

3:05:15to do the research necessary

3:05:17to make the necessary decisions

3:05:19These are really important,

3:05:22I'd like to know

3:05:23specifically how many short term

3:05:27I'd also like to know,

3:05:29that should be coming alongside

3:05:31that can help

3:05:34such as a hotel tax and fee

3:05:37As a new council person,

3:05:39So I would love to

3:05:42So just want to put that on

3:05:44Yeah,

3:05:46and I appreciate your comments.

3:05:49Yeah.

3:05:50I mean, can everybody hear me?

3:05:51Yeah.

3:05:53The administration

3:05:56and we generally respond to them

3:05:58It's not a 100% track record.

3:06:00I can think of

3:06:02where I've had to answer

3:06:06a response wasn't accurate,

3:06:09your comment, Councilmember

3:06:11this is just general comment

3:06:15This is critically important,

3:06:17that we will get you

3:06:20all the information in a

3:06:22It definitely understand

3:06:26and we want to make sure

3:06:30And that's generally

3:06:33and apologize for the times

3:06:37Think so. I just I want to

3:06:39Just ask specifically about

3:06:41how many how many scars exists

3:06:45for them.

3:06:46Can I also add to that question

3:06:493 to 5 year snapshot or.

3:06:52I don't I guess you couldn't

3:06:56But when this first

3:07:01If the

3:07:02number of factors has changed

3:07:04just understand the year by year

3:07:08Any further questions were

3:07:11Any further questions

3:07:13President Melendez,

3:07:15with next steps? Yes.

3:07:17I just want to, first,

3:07:21two nights of hearings, but

3:07:25preparation on Matt's part

3:07:28So we really appreciate

3:07:31And then in terms

3:07:32from a council perspective, too,

3:07:34I want to highlight two things.

3:07:36One is

3:07:37we will have a public hearing

3:07:38with the community on November

3:07:41That is our normal public

3:07:43Speak to council night.

3:07:44And we will make sure

3:07:47and promote that,

3:07:48because we know that people

3:07:49want to speak

3:07:52And then the second thing is,

3:07:55amendments and conversations

3:07:58I don't have all the answers

3:08:00but I do want to say

3:08:01to my colleagues that my hope

3:08:04on what an internal process

3:08:07because I know that there's

3:08:10a lot of interest amongst,

3:08:11not only individual interest,

3:08:13but I think

3:08:16So I think utilizing central

3:08:19what that could look like.

3:08:21We'll try to come together

3:08:24all to react to.

3:08:25So we'll we'll take your input

3:08:28once we have it.

3:08:29And I'll turn

3:08:31Smith,

3:08:33very, very quickly on that.

3:08:34No, we certainly will work

3:08:36We've already been talking

3:08:37council

3:08:39and I just wanted

3:08:42going back to what Councilmember

3:08:43Smith said

3:08:45You know,

3:08:47it's really

3:08:49But we've had a, award

3:08:51winning process

3:08:54And we've adopted that

3:08:57So we've been working

3:08:58with the administration

3:09:00I hope very carefully

3:09:03tracking all the questions

3:09:05in writing, capturing

3:09:08The staff are going to work

3:09:11to very carefully track

3:09:15And,

3:09:17and one more thought there,

3:09:19just please

3:09:21So additional questions.

3:09:22So colleagues,

3:09:24the last two days.

3:09:25If you wake up at 3 a.m.

3:09:27tonight and decide

3:09:30the hope is to get

3:09:32in by Monday

3:09:34So if you can get any final

3:09:37just so that we can get

3:09:39all of those initial questions

3:09:41then if you're up at 3 a.m.,

3:09:42I'm usually up at that time

3:09:44So feel free.

3:09:46All right. Thank you.

3:09:47We're

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