2026-09-03 - Police Accountability Board

01:07>> Good evening. We're going to

01:08get started here. Welcome to

01:13this September Police

01:15Accountability Board meeting.

01:17Just do brief introductions.

01:20>> Joyful evening. My name is

01:22Arlene Brown and I am a

01:25representative of the Alliance.

01:26And while I have the mic, I'd

01:28like everyone to know that this

01:30is my last meeting. I will be

01:33resigning from the board

01:35effective the end of business

01:37tomorrow night. It has been a

01:39plum please and pleasure. I've

01:40been here six years. It's time

01:43for fresh meat and new ideas.

01:50>> Good evening everyone. My

01:51name is the Reverend Keith

01:52Patterson. I'm an alliance

01:54member. And, Arlene, we will

01:55miss you.

01:57>> Good evening. My name is

01:59Kathy Thomas and I am Alliance

02:01member.

02:02>> AJ Derwin. Northwest Council

02:04seat.

02:07>> Larry Knox, Northeast

02:08Council seat. And Arlene. I

02:10would have had a long speech

02:11prepared, but this meeting is

02:13not just about that. But you

02:14are a great vice chair, and I

02:16know you'll still stay active

02:17and we wouldn't be where we

02:18were without your help.

02:20>> William Clark, I'm the

02:21mayor's appointee. And, Arlene,

02:23I'm going to miss you also very

02:25much.

02:26>> Yvonne Wilson, council seat.

02:29And I don't know if I'm going

02:31to let Arlene go anywhere. You

02:34know what I mean?

02:38>> All right, well, I might do

02:39this a little bit out of order

02:41here. You know, I know we you

02:43know, there's normally a spot a

02:45little bit later on in the

02:46agenda for a chairperson. But I

02:48did want to say just a few

02:49words about Arlene service

02:51because she's been a very

02:52dedicated member of the Police

02:54Accountability Board. For how

02:55long has it been? Six years.

02:57>> Six years. Six years, seven.

02:59>> That is a.

02:59>> Level of.

03:00>> Dedication and commitment

03:02that is hard to surpass, and

03:04she's always bringing her

03:06joyful energy, whether it's a

03:08joyful evening, a joyful

03:09morning, a joyful afternoon

03:11when Arlene's around, it is

03:13joyful and but but don't don't

03:15let that. Don't let that joy

03:18fool you. She's also sharp as a

03:20tack and ready to. To make sure

03:23things are staying transparent

03:24and accountable when it comes

03:26to the Police Accountability

03:27Board. So I want to just say

03:29from the bottom of my heart,

03:30thank you so much, Arlene, for

03:32for your service to the

03:34community, for your dedication

03:35to the agency and for all the

03:36work you've been. It'll be a

03:39big seat to fill over there,

03:41but hopefully we can get it.

03:44Thank you so much. Okay. All

03:59right. Do we want to move to

04:01our meeting minute approval of

04:02our meeting minutes? Do I have

04:05a motion to approve the meeting

04:08minutes from August? All in

04:14favor of approving the meeting

04:16minutes? Used to be unanimous.

04:23All right. And I think now we

04:26can move to our executive

04:27director's report.

04:33>> Good evening. Can everyone

04:34hear me? Thank you. So good

04:40evening, Chair Derwin, members

04:42of the board and members of the

04:44public. Oh, and AJ, before I

04:48start, we also have to make

04:49sure is officially excused.

04:53>> Yes. We'll just note for the

04:54record that Vice Chair Lloyd is

04:57is not with us tonight.

04:58>> Thank you. Tonight, I want

05:03to provide some context for

05:04some high level work that's

05:06been happening at the Police

05:07Accountability Board. But I do

05:09want to take pause for just a

05:11moment and note about some

05:13things that happened during the

05:15month of August alone across

05:17the United States, black and

05:19brown individuals lost their

05:21lives in encounters with law

05:23enforcement. They include

05:26Francisco Parisio Muniz in

05:30Maryland, Otis Lee Phillips Jr

05:33in Alabama, Marcellus Tremaine

05:36Robinson in North Carolina,

05:39Alexis Thorpe in Georgia, and

05:43Pamela Cisneros in New York.

05:46These are not simply names on a

05:48list. They were people. They

05:50belonged to families, and they

05:51belong to communities. And the

05:54circumstances surrounding many

05:56of their deaths remain under

05:59investigation. We should

06:00neither prejudge those

06:02investigations nor draw

06:04conclusions, certainly before

06:05all the facts are known. But

06:07this is why precisely civilian

06:10oversight matters. Civilian

06:12oversight is not about assuming,

06:15at the beginning there's

06:16wrongdoing by police. It's

06:18about ensuring that when the

06:20most consequential exercise of

06:23governmental authority occurs,

06:25the taking of a life. There are

06:28systems in place to ask

06:30difficult questions, examine

06:33policies and practices,

06:35identify patterns, promote

06:38transparency, and certainly

06:40strengthen public trust. Every

06:42single incident has its own

06:44facts. Every officer involved

06:47deserves a fair examination of

06:49those facts, and every family

06:51certainly deserves answers. But

06:54communities deserve something

06:56more as well. They deserve

06:59confidence that someone is

07:00looking beyond the individual

07:02incident to ask, what can we

07:05learn? What, if anything,

07:07should change and how do we

07:10prevent avoidable harm in the

07:12future? Those questions are at

07:15the heart of civilian oversight.

07:17We say their names not to

07:20assign guilt. We say their

07:21names to acknowledge the lives

07:24that were lost, and remind

07:26ourselves that behind every

07:28policy, every procedure, every

07:30data point, and every

07:32discussion about accountability

07:34are human beings. That is why

07:37civilian oversight matters.

07:40That is why transparency

07:42matters, and that is why this

07:44work continues to matter. I

07:46just wanted to start my

07:47comments with that. Thank you.

07:49You're welcome. So August was

07:52certainly an important month

07:53for the police accountability.

07:55We expanded our community

07:57presence. We continued

07:59strengthening relationships

08:01with key partners. We advance

08:03conversations about data access,

08:06further developed our

08:07legislative strategy, and

08:09continued building the New York

08:11State Civilian Oversight

08:14Consortium. This. There's a

08:15common thread across all of

08:17this work. We are continuing to

08:19demonstrate the value of

08:21civilian oversight today while

08:24preparing the PAB for what

08:25comes next. So board members,

08:28you do have the monthly report

08:30in front of you. And so just

08:32August at a glance is as

08:35follows. The PAB received ten

08:38complaints compared with eight

08:39the month before. In July, we

08:42participated in 26 community

08:45engagement activities, reaching

08:501747 residents, compared to

08:531328 in July. The Legislative

08:56Affairs Committee met twice

08:58this month, and we continued

09:00work formalizing the New York

09:02State Civilian Oversight

09:04Consortium. Those number

09:06matters, but the larger story

09:08is what they represent.

09:10Community engagement increased

09:13significantly, and residents

09:15continue using the PAB to bring

09:17forward concerns. And our

09:19policy, legal community and

09:21executive work is increasingly

09:23becoming connected around a

09:26broader model of civilian

09:28oversight. While July's report

09:31emphasized that meaningful

09:32oversight extends beyond

09:35investigations, the policy

09:37review. Trend analysis, public

09:40education transparency,

09:42community engagement, and

09:43systemic reform. August

09:46demonstrates what it looks like

09:47in practice. So just a few

09:50highlights. Data access and

09:53systemic oversight. And that

09:55remained a top priority for us

09:56in the month of August. So we

09:58did continue conversations with

10:00city leadership regarding the

10:03need for appropriate access to

10:05information, including

10:07conversations with Council

10:08President Melendez and

10:11corporation counsel.

10:13Importantly, I had a positive

10:14conversation with Chief Smith

10:16focused on strengthening the

10:18relationship between the RPD

10:19and the PAB. Information

10:22sharing and identifying

10:23opportunities for collaboration

10:25within our current authority.

10:27Our objective is

10:28straightforward, and it's this

10:31meaningful systemic oversight

10:33requires meaningful access to

10:35information. So I'm pleased to

10:36update the board that we are

10:38meeting in mid-September to

10:41finalize the practical

10:43solutions that will allow us,

10:44as the Police Accountability

10:46Board, to be able to conduct

10:49those things that are outlined

10:50in the charter, which include

10:52evidence based, based policy

10:55analysis. The identification of

10:57trends, monitor reforms and

10:59provide meaningful public

11:02reporting. At the same time, we

11:05continue working towards

11:06restoration and clarification

11:08of the investigative authority

11:11originally envisioned and

11:13outlined for the Police

11:14Accountability Board. And so I

11:15don't want to take any thunder

11:17away from any updates that AJ

11:20and or Kevin may provide, other

11:23than saying we held meetings on

11:25August 4th and August 27th and

11:27are continuing to move forward

11:29with that committee. Community

11:39trust and presence. As I

11:40mentioned, 26 activities

11:42yielded 1747 resident

11:47engagements, but it's important

11:49for us to look beyond the

11:50numbers, right? Those are

11:51important. But the larger

11:53question is what are we

11:55learning from the community and

11:57how is what we are hearing

12:00influencing our oversight work?

12:01And I can tell you today, just

12:03being out at parcel five with

12:06the event sponsored by

12:08President Melendez and Vice

12:09President Harris, we had really

12:11robust conversations with

12:13community members and it was

12:15nice. Thank you, board member

12:17Knox, for being there. So we

12:20are really working to make sure

12:22that the community is informing

12:25our work. And because that

12:27connection is going to become

12:28increasingly important. One

12:30example is my conversation with

12:33Willow Domestic Violence Center.

12:35The purpose of the conversation

12:36was really to understand what

12:39sort of survivor experiences

12:42were, where domestic violence

12:44intersects with law enforcement

12:46and other systems. So we began

12:49seeing potential opportunities

12:51for survival, survival, sorry,

12:55survivor centered policy review,

12:57public education, and community

13:00informed oversight. So I'll

13:01have more to update once we

13:02have that moving forward. And

13:04so moving forward, I want us to

13:06create a stronger cycle. And it

13:08goes something like this. The

13:11community tells us. We look at

13:13it, we examine it, have

13:15conversations. The data that we

13:17pull in and we received helps

13:18us to further understand it.

13:21Policy and oversight work

13:22responds, and then we report

13:23back to the community and to

13:25continue that loop. This is

13:27what community centered

13:28oversight should look like.

13:32Emerging issues in policing. We

13:34continued monitoring these

13:37issues that may shape policing

13:39and civilian oversight.

13:41Following the Public Safety

13:42Committee's discussion

13:44regarding artificial

13:46intelligence and law

13:48enforcement, we began having

13:49deeper conversations. We also

13:51monitored developments

13:53involving emerging use of force

13:56technologies. We know that

13:57flock cameras are really huge

13:59right now, and that's becoming

14:02an increasing presence in

14:03Monroe County. And so this

14:06reinforces something that I

14:07said before to the board.

14:09Oversight does not have to

14:10begin after something has

14:12happened or has gone wrong.

14:14Effective civilian oversight

14:16should be capable of examining

14:18policies, technologies, systems

14:20and practices before they

14:22become sources of a concern for

14:24the community. As far as the

14:26statewide leadership, we

14:28continued advancing the New

14:29York State Civilian Oversight

14:31Consortium. So during the month

14:33of August, we received the

14:35draft Nicole affiliate

14:37agreement and working with

14:39Kevin, our general counsel, and

14:40Hogan, our staff attorney, we

14:43made some proposed revisions.

14:45And so now we are moving

14:47towards the finalization of

14:48that document. And so we're

14:52transitioning from creating to

14:53the consortium to actually

14:56implementing it. And the the

14:57agreement will cement all of

14:59that. And what was shared with

15:02me on Tuesday is that we will

15:06the agreement will go before

15:08the board in mid September, and

15:12they don't anticipate any

15:14issues. So I will keep you

15:16updated with that. The final

15:20piece that I want to talk about

15:22is really just building the PAB,

15:25doing some internal work

15:27because we've had to respond to

15:29legal pressures, organizational

15:32staffing and structural change.

15:33And so we really need to work

15:35on making sure that we are

15:37institutionally

15:39institutionalizing our agency.

15:41So we're starting some work

15:42relative to moving our

15:44strategic plan forward from

15:472027 to 29 and making sure that

15:50we have stronger KPIs, clearer

15:53divisional ownership, more

15:55intentional monthly and

15:56quarterly reporting, and

15:57stronger measures of impact.

15:59And so our goal is to move

16:01simply beyond reporting and

16:03saying, well, what did we do?

16:05We also need to answer what did

16:07we learn from the community?

16:08What changed? Are we indeed

16:11achieving our goals? Where are

16:12the gaps and what are we going

16:14to do next? And so that same

16:16philosophy will shape all of

16:18our reports. So as we move into

16:22September and we're three days

16:23in, and then the remainder of

16:262026, our priorities are

16:29increasingly clear. Continuing

16:31to demonstrate the value of the

16:33Police Accountability Board

16:34under the current authority,

16:37pursue appropriate data access,

16:39advancing the legislative

16:41strategy to protect and restore

16:43the Rochester mandate.

16:45Strengthen the connection

16:46between community engagement

16:48and system and systemic

16:51oversight. Formalize and

16:53implement the New York State

16:54Civilian Oversight Consortium

16:57and strengthening our KPIs. And

17:00so just one last thing that I

17:02want to share. I just want to

17:03close with this. From our

17:06inception, the police

17:07accountability has been known

17:09and recognized for it's our

17:11ability to independently

17:13investigate complaints of

17:15alleged police misconduct. And

17:16we're working as hard as we can

17:18to make sure that we can get

17:20back to those roots with that

17:23authority currently eliminated,

17:25however, a narrative has

17:26emerged among some that there

17:28is now little for the agency to

17:31do. Our work must demonstrate

17:35otherwise. August provides part

17:36of that answer. We received

17:39complaints and I continue to

17:41always uplift what board member

17:43Knox says around the fact that.

17:46Please, please continue to

17:48submit the complaints. We do

17:50receive more than CSS, which is

17:53internal. The internal

17:56investigations. We reached

17:57almost 1750 residents. We're

18:01continuing to strengthen

18:02community partnerships. We're

18:05advancing statewide

18:07collaboration, which will

18:07become a pilot and a map to be

18:10used across the United States.

18:12We continued working towards

18:14better access to information.

18:16We have examined emerging

18:19issues in policing, and we

18:21continue to move a path forward

18:23towards restoration of the

18:25authority envisioned for our

18:27agency. But our goal is not to

18:30simply to prove that we are

18:32busy. Activity is not the same

18:34as impact, and we know that.

18:35The question I want us asking

18:38now is how does our work

18:40advance police accountability

18:42and transparency? Today, in

18:442026, every single one of our

18:46divisions should be able to

18:47answer that questions. Our KPIs,

18:50which are key performance

18:51indicators, indicators that

18:53help us measure it. Our report

18:55should communicate it, and our

18:57community ultimately should be

18:59able to see it and understand

19:01it. So we are moving from a

19:03period of stabilization to a

19:05period of institutionalization,

19:09execution, and measurable,

19:11measurable impact. The goal is

19:13not simply to run the PAB well,

19:16the goal is to build an agency

19:18that can last for our children

19:20and our children's children. ET

19:22cetera. ET cetera. I appreciate

19:24your time. That formally

19:26concludes my report to the

19:28board and the community, and

19:29certainly open to any questions

19:31or anything that needs

19:32clarifying. Thank you.

19:34>> Thank you so much. I have a

19:37couple of questions. I don't

19:38know if anyone else does. I

19:40guess let me just maybe I'll

19:41start it off here and then open

19:43up for for others, you

19:44mentioned related to data

19:46access that there's going to be,

19:47I guess, a meeting in mid

19:48September to sort of work out

19:50some of the practical details

19:51in terms of getting access to

19:53data. Do we know any of the

19:54details about that? Is that

19:56going to for example, is that

19:57going to include like download

19:58access and things of that

20:00nature? Do we know any of those

20:01details yet?

20:02>> We're we're this is really a

20:04think tank for us to be able to

20:06do that. We want to come in

20:07with, you know, an open,

20:09transparent and problem solving

20:13approach to it.

20:16>> Yeah. If there is like a

20:17list of like priorities that

20:19the, you know, that you have or

20:20that other staff members have

20:22related to what they would like

20:24to see in data access, I think

20:25that'd be, that'd be

20:26interesting in exploring, you

20:27know, maybe with the board or

20:29you know what, I don't know if

20:30you have a list of those kind

20:32of priorities, but thinking

20:33about what those priorities

20:34might look like and then, you

20:36know, trying to work with the

20:37administration to make those

20:38things happen, I think might be

20:40a, you know, one way, one way

20:42to proceed on that. I also want

20:43to ask about the Oversight

20:44Consortium. Happy to hear that.

20:46That's moving along. Is there a

20:47date for the next meeting or

20:49not.

20:51>> So not yet. There's a step

20:54in between when we have the

20:56next virtual meeting. Brittany

21:00and Doctor Campbell have been

21:02working on. Remember we did the

21:04survey. So those results are

21:06being finalized and tabulated.

21:09And we want to schedule

21:11individual meetings. So we're

21:12getting those on the calendar

21:15to make sure we have

21:17individualized conversations so

21:18people understand what the

21:20consortium is, what we are

21:22intending to do and what the

21:24goals are. So then when we come

21:26together, we don't have to

21:27spend a lot of time working on

21:29that. But our hope is to have

21:33that done by September, October

21:36and then have a meeting in

21:38later in October is is the goal.

21:41>> Thank you. Any other

21:43questions?

21:45>> It wouldn't be a meeting

21:47unless board member Knox asked

21:49at least one question of me.

21:51>> Just one this time. For the

21:56consortium, I think it might be.

21:58I know we've talked about this

21:59before, but especially with the

22:01legislation that we're working

22:02on, consortium getting together,

22:04this might be a good time to

22:05start having conversations with

22:06the local delegation about

22:07being able to be a presentation

22:09or be a part of caucus weekend

22:11in Albany in February,

22:12especially by that point, we

22:13should be up.

22:14>> That's a great.

22:15>> Point, especially if the

22:16legislation is moving to a

22:17certain degree. I think us

22:18having a presence there with

22:20the rest of the consortium and

22:21ourselves would be a good idea.

22:23>> That was our thank you board

22:24member, Knox. That was a good

22:26question. That was a great

22:27question. That was our hope. We

22:29wanted to make sure that we

22:30were formalized as the

22:32consortium that would just give

22:34us more clout, if you will. So

22:37that is the the goal and any

22:39help that you can give us

22:41moving forward would be

22:42wonderful. We can get that. And

22:44this is a good time to put that

22:47ask in.

22:52>> Any other questions?

22:54>> No, but I do have a comment

22:56and a possible question. One

22:58thank you so much for the work.

22:59I know it's been a lot going on.

23:03In order to get things situated

23:05in the with the shift, my

23:09concern or question, I hear you

23:12saying that you have excellent

23:14meetings with the chief. What

23:17is it accomplish? We need for

23:20the community to see that we're

23:24all working together. That we

23:27are better together and we say

23:31we are talking to him. You.

23:33We're exchanging ideas. It

23:36would be nice to see you two

23:38together at some point in some

23:40kind of discussion. It would

23:42also be nice for the police

23:45department and the PAB excuse

23:48me, to show the community that

23:51we're actually working together

23:55to better the community. It's

23:57not us against them. We are all

24:00in this together, and it would

24:02be very helpful in helping them

24:06reimagine what their. Policy,

24:12not just policies, but the way

24:14they act and interact with the

24:18community. But it's very hard

24:19to get people to change if they

24:21don't know you. They don't

24:22understand how you think and

24:23what you do. So perhaps during

24:26this next year, there would be

24:28a way to have B&B members,

24:32board members, staff and the

24:35police do a couple of

24:37activities together where we

24:40talk at something not against

24:43each other, but get to know one

24:45another.

24:47>> There. Thank you for that,

24:48Arlene. There are a few things

24:50that are percolating relative

24:52to that. And so thank you for

24:54uplifting that again. And I

24:56have a big faux pas. I did not

24:58give my comments about you

25:01leaving the board and this

25:02being your last meeting. I just

25:04want to thank you for your

25:06passion, your joyfulness, right.

25:10And you bring an it's an

25:16expertise and, and a powerful

25:20presence when you're in the

25:21room. I've appreciated your

25:23support. I've appreciated the

25:25feedback that you've given me

25:26when you've told me, you know

25:28what, you need to fix this,

25:30right? You need to get it

25:32together. You need to do better.

25:33I have appreciated you've done

25:34it in love and with the utmost

25:37respect. And so I am very, very

25:40sad for to see you leave. It

25:42certainly is a loss for us, but

25:44I know that six years is a long

25:46time, and it goes way beyond

25:48what you anticipated or thought

25:50that your service would be. And

25:53we often will say thank you for

25:55your service. You know, when we

25:56see someone in the military or

25:58in board service. But I just

25:59want to thank you from the

26:01bottom of my heart. I

26:02appreciate all that you brought

26:04to this role and the wisdom and

26:08the professionalism and the

26:10grace that you brought to the

26:11role. Thank you. I appreciate

26:13you.

26:13>> Thank you very much. I am

26:15stepping off the board. I am

26:17not stopping doing PA work. You

26:20will still hear from me. You

26:21will still see me. I will still

26:23be the thorn. I will still be a

26:26voice, and I will still be out

26:28in the community promoting the

26:30work that we do because it's so

26:33important and we are better

26:37together. Thank you.

26:40>> I just want to piggyback off

26:41what Arlene said about the

26:44police department and be a be

26:48the. PABA all of us do is

26:54there's some I mean, it might

26:56take some time or some whatever,

26:58but could there be something

27:00that would really be on the

27:01forefront that we can try to

27:03get everybody together and have

27:05a town hall meeting so that the

27:07people can. I'm just saying

27:09like, see us together and

27:10questions can be answered. And,

27:14you know, that's what I want to

27:16say. Even the city council

27:17people, everybody that's really,

27:19truly, I want to say that

27:21pertinent to the PA board, to

27:23the staff and to the people,

27:25because it's about the

27:26community, it's not about

27:27really about us. So is there

27:30something that we can discuss

27:31or how how would we do that?

27:34>> It absolutely is something

27:35to discuss. And as we move

27:37towards each one of the board

27:38members who have their district

27:40meetings, I think that's a

27:41really good opportunity to have

27:44a p a board member, to have a

27:47city council representative and

27:49law enforcement, and to have a

27:51conversation with the community.

27:53So there are definitely options

27:56that we can pursue, but that's

27:57something that I would like to,

27:59I think would be a good idea

28:01for those district meetings to

28:02have City Council board, law

28:05enforcement.

28:07>> Okay, that would be good.

28:08But I'm my point is, Brittany

28:11will be setting that up. Right.

28:14Brittany. Yes or no?

28:18>> She'll be working with each

28:19one of you to find a mutually

28:21agreeable date. And then the

28:22pace team takes over some of

28:24the planning and logistics. But

28:26it also would involve our board

28:28members, right, working with

28:30city council and working with

28:33someone from law enforcement,

28:35maybe from the area that you

28:37represent in the city.

28:40>> Okay. I'm just I, I got you

28:42the quadrants, but I just

28:44wanted, I want all the

28:45quadrants to come together and

28:48be on one accord, along with

28:50the police department and the

28:51city Council. That's the. Thank

28:54you.

29:00>> Any other questions?

29:03Comments? Let's move along to

29:09what do we have next, the

29:11divisional update.

29:12>> Sure. So I covered quite a

29:13bit of just from a high level.

29:15But if there are things that

29:17you have questions, our

29:19directors are here to answer

29:21anything. Operationally public

29:23affairs, community engagement,

29:25policy and oversight, legal

29:29affairs.

29:34>> For legal. When it comes to.

29:36And this goes back to the

29:37conversation about the data

29:38access reminder. The charter,

29:39you know, says that we should

29:41have access to everything or

29:43all data that's in the RPD

29:45databases. Is there still maybe

29:48as much as you can say this

29:50might be more of a I think this

29:52is for the public. I mean, this

29:53corporation council still have

29:55a strong disagreement with our

29:56version of what all means and

29:57what that office thinks all

29:59means.

30:02>> We're.

30:05>> All meaning access to data.

30:06>> I think where we are at this

30:08point is they understand what

30:10we need to do, and we just have

30:12to figure out what the

30:15parameters or the the bumpers

30:16are going to be around it. But

30:18we were pretty clear of talking

30:20through like this. This needs

30:22to happen. And so we're just

30:25working on putting together

30:27some rules of engagement that

30:28we think that will work and be

30:30acceptable.

30:33>> But we did have a good

30:34conversation. I do have to

30:36admit that it was a good, open

30:37conversation with stakeholders.

30:41I do know that that. You know,

30:47I don't want to speak for

30:49somebody, but I would say that

30:51corporation counsel's idea and

30:53theory is that we need to look

30:57at our that portion of the

31:00charter to be read in, in

31:03concurrence with what the court

31:05has said with regard to what

31:09our powers are. So we can't

31:13just go fishing around in in

31:17the RPD databases. That's, you

31:22know, not something that would

31:25be permitted for us to look for

31:27misconduct or something like

31:28that. We're putting together a

31:30series of cases and things like

31:32that where we see patterns and

31:35such like that, and we're going

31:36to make requests for body worn

31:41camera and such materials as

31:43that. But again, we're still

31:46working through what it's going

31:48to exactly look like. But we do

31:51have progress made, and I was

31:55pleased with the conversation.

32:03>> And just to be clear, you

32:05know, in in response to that or

32:06just to, you know, what, what

32:08you're reporting regarding

32:09corporation council, it's and

32:11the thing that the PAB still

32:12has the power to do despite the

32:14current legal decision. So, one,

32:15as we know, legal decisions

32:17haven't limited access to data

32:19and evidence, and two, they

32:20haven't limited Pabs ability to

32:22review systemic patterns and

32:24practice. And what this might

32:25mean, the way it's

32:26distinguishable from like

32:27investigating an individual

32:29complaint is it might be data

32:31that's sort of evaluated in

32:33sort of an aggregate way. But

32:35in order to to evaluate a

32:36pattern or practice, you have

32:38to be able to look at

32:39individual instances and then

32:40make generalizations at an

32:42aggregate way. And so, you know,

32:47there's a, I think there's a

32:48difference between reviewing a

32:50pattern or a practice by

32:51looking at what happened in

32:52individual cases and comparing

32:54it to what happened in other

32:55individual cases to try to find

32:57patterns and, you know, going

32:59on, you know, what corporation

33:00counsel may have described as

33:01like a wild fishing expedition,

33:03right? There's, there's

33:03differences between those two

33:05things. And the PB is empowered

33:07to review those systemic

33:08patterns and practices in the

33:10way. The only way to do that is

33:12to be able to look at a bunch

33:14of individual like, you know,

33:15say, body camera footage from a

33:16bunch of individual instances

33:17and then try to find those

33:19patterns and practices. So I

33:20just want to be there is some,

33:22you know, I want to be clear

33:24about what those powers are and

33:25what the PAB can do and what

33:27data access needs to look like

33:29in order to, to allow that to.

33:31But it sounds like hopefully

33:32it's moving in that direction.

33:37Any other anything else for the

33:40divisional or divisional

33:43question?

33:47>> I did want to add that

33:49during next month's board

33:51meeting, which is on October

33:531st, the divisions will come

33:55together and we'll have a

33:56quarterly update. So a really

33:59robust, you know, you're

34:00hearing I say provide

34:03information in my report, and

34:04they reiterate a lot of the

34:06same things. It was becoming

34:08duplicative. So we thought the

34:09quarterly updates would be

34:10really helpful to do some

34:12comparison and things of that

34:13nature. So you'll hear about

34:14July, August and September.

34:18Okay.

34:18>> Thank you. Else on

34:21divisional updates.

34:22>> Yes, I do have one question.

34:24When you talk about patterns

34:26and practices, one of my

34:28concerns is since the appellate

34:31court decision, the number of

34:34complaints we have. Have you

34:35seen a drastic drop? Because I

34:37know that's one way you really

34:41analyze what what really

34:45concerns the community.

34:49>> So we haven't seen we have

34:52like spikes sometimes. Right.

34:54And and so it's hard to say.

34:56It's because of the, the legal

35:00decision we're going to

35:02certainly we're looking at that

35:03at the annual report. And then

35:06looking back to. We're updating

35:08for 2526. We'll look back from

35:122425 and look to to make some

35:14comparisons. And the year

35:15before that, just to see if

35:17there's any any differences.

35:20But I mean, we've been pretty

35:22steady over the since April

35:2628th, 2025.

35:38>> So now there's an

35:39opportunity for a Chairperson's

35:41report. I'm going to sort of

35:42merge that with a sort of an

35:44update on the legislative

35:45Affairs Committee and sort of

35:46sort of do both simultaneously.

35:50So we there was going to be a

35:52meeting on the 27th, but a

35:55couple. The board members.

35:58Weren't able to make it. So we

35:59didn't have a quorum to

36:01actually to have an official

36:02meeting. You know, we did get

36:04together with the Alliance just

36:05to sort of, you know, talk more

36:07generally without, you know,

36:08without it being an official

36:10meeting or being able to take a

36:11vote on anything. And one thing

36:13I did want to mention, you know,

36:14apart from, you know, one

36:16question that we were sort of

36:17talking about is apart from the

36:19legislation, you know, we're

36:20working on with respect to

36:21restoring powers, there's

36:22actually a lot of other

36:23legislation that the state

36:25legislature has considered

36:26relating to policing that I

36:27think it's worth mentioning, or

36:28just being aware of. And just

36:31just to name a few things, this

36:33is not necessarily an all

36:35inclusive deep dive, but there

36:36are bills currently that have

36:38been proposed related to

36:40establishing a duty to report

36:41unauthorized use of force by

36:43police officers across the

36:44state, establishing reporting

36:47duties of law enforcement

36:48agencies with respect to

36:50misconduct allegations and

36:51outcomes so that it would,

36:53across the state, providing a

36:55final disciplinary authority

36:56for civilian complaints to the

36:58Civilian Complaint Review Board

36:59in New York City. Very similar

37:02to what what we're trying to do

37:03here, eligibility for

37:06appointment as a police officer,

37:07what requirements or

37:09disqualifications might be

37:10imposed for when an officer is

37:13no longer allowed to seek

37:14appointment as a police officer

37:16if they've committed certain

37:17types of misconduct elsewhere,

37:20allowing access to currently

37:22protected records related to

37:23civilian law enforcement

37:25oversight entities regarding

37:27investigations and disciplinary

37:28proceedings for misconduct.

37:31Establishing county law

37:32enforcement, Civilian Complaint

37:34Review board. Public disclosure

37:40of annual reports related to

37:41legal settlements for payments

37:43related to law enforcement

37:44activity and misconduct. And

37:50then some bills similar to sort

37:52of what we're doing, which

37:53would remove police officer

37:55discipline as a subject of

37:56collective bargaining. So the

37:57reason I mention I mentioned

37:58these is because there's, you

37:59know, it's, you know, this

38:01legislation related to policing

38:02and how it happens, as we know,

38:04is bigger than Rochester. It's

38:05it's an issue that it cares

38:07about. And so I think it's

38:09worth thinking about how we can

38:11support these other efforts

38:13elsewhere. You know, if we if

38:14we find it would be helpful,

38:16agree with them. And, you know,

38:18if we support some of these

38:19other legislative efforts

38:20elsewhere, that might just be,

38:22you know, bring us together

38:23even more. These might be other

38:25things to discuss with the

38:26consortium on to utilize some

38:28of the the, you know,

38:29unification of agencies across

38:30the state to try to, to try to

38:32make some change on these

38:35various disgusting and maybe

38:36potentially others. So I think

38:38it's worth thinking about all

38:39those things. That's stuff I've

38:43been working on and. Okay, I

38:48think I will stop there and I

38:51will turn it over or let me

38:53before I do, do board member

38:56Knox or Brown? Brown, do you

38:58want to. Okay, so let me now

39:04turn it over to the training

39:06committee board member, Clark

39:08or Knox. Do you have any

39:11questions about training?

39:51>> Are are you referencing the

39:54trainings that we that we

39:55picked the last time? So

39:57they'll be the same? I mean,

39:59she gave me a module of

40:01different trainings and those

40:03were the ones that we picked

40:04during the board training

40:06committee. But if there are

40:07other ones that you're

40:08interested in for fiscal year

40:112728, we can look at those as

40:15well.

40:19>> Because I noticed.

40:25>> You know, it's the board

40:28trainings are separate from the

40:30ones that Nicole has rolled out.

40:59>> Okay, great. Thank you. How

41:01about the youth and community

41:04engagement board member? Wilson?

41:07>> I talked to the earlier

41:09today and I talked to Brittany

41:10when I got here. So we are in

41:12the process of getting a time

41:15together so we can meet. And I

41:18believe it's going to be this

41:19September. So then by October,

41:22I hopefully by the next meeting

41:24we have some updates and some

41:25dates for that. Great. Thank

41:28you.

41:30>> Okay. Those are our

41:32committee reports. We now have

41:34an opportunity to talk about

41:35any old business, any old

41:36business, anyone would like to

41:37discuss. Not here. Oh. Okay. No

41:44old business I'm hearing. How

41:45about new business.

41:48>> With Arlene leaving us? That

41:50does mean there's an opening.

41:51So please reach out to the

41:52Police Accountability Board

41:54Alliance if you're interested

41:55in filling that seat. We do

41:56have two seats that will be

41:59open now, and those are the

42:00community seats not picked by

42:01elected officials, but by the

42:03alliance communities. If you're

42:05interested or know somebody

42:06interested.

42:09>> Yes, I would like to to

42:10emphasize that as well. And I

42:12would I would encourage

42:13Brittany and public engagement

42:14to please if you, you know, if

42:16you encounter community members

42:18that are interested in in our

42:20work, please refer them over to

42:21the Alliance. So hopefully we

42:22can build some of these seats

42:27as soon as possible. Okay. Any

42:30other new business to discuss?

42:38Looks like you're jumping.

42:40>> I really don't know if it's.

42:42I never know if I'm supposed to

42:44bring it up in this session or

42:45in the executive meeting. So

42:47like I talked to you earlier,

42:48we'll bring we'll talk about it

42:50later on, but it's got, you

42:52know, okay.

42:53>> Yeah. If yeah, if, if you

42:55like to go into executive

42:56session, either at this meeting

42:57or at a future meeting, you can

42:59make them.

43:00>> In a future meeting at.

43:01>> This time at the meeting.

43:02Okay. Okay. So yeah, let's hold

43:04off on anything that might be

43:06confidential in that way. Okay.

43:08So any other new business

43:11that's not confidential need to

43:12be discussed in executive.

43:15>> Yes. One thing that I would

43:16like for the board and the

43:18agency, as well as the

43:20community to consider. Is that

43:25we need to do a better job with

43:28how we present the work that

43:31the police officers do, so that

43:35young men and women in the

43:37community will want to join the

43:40force. We complain that there

43:42are no, or very few black and

43:45brown police officers, male or

43:48female, and one of my concerns,

43:53personal, not as a board member,

43:55is the fact that our

43:58conversations about the work

44:01that they do is so negative.

44:04Why would anybody want to be a

44:06police officer? The last class,

44:10that of recruits that the

44:13police are working with, are

44:15primarily white men, women from

44:18the suburbs or outlying areas

44:22who know nothing about the city

44:25or the people who live in it.

44:27And that's not a good thing.

44:31However, if we want change, we

44:35have to initiate how we present

44:38in order for that change to

44:40happen. Now, I know this is

44:43Moses Robinson. Was it stellar?

44:48>> Still a police officer, and

44:49there were others who were like

44:50him, who did a lot of work, but

44:52he's no longer on the force,

44:54and we don't have it. It does

44:57not appear. It does not appear

45:00as we as if we have other black

45:03and brown people who are

45:04stepping up into that community

45:07role that he held. And I would

45:09like very much for the agency,

45:13the board and the alliance to

45:16figure out how to change the

45:18conversation in the community

45:21so that our young people would

45:24consider being police officers.

45:27That it is a good job that they

45:31are needed, their presence is

45:34needed, and the fact that they

45:36are bringing to that agency a

45:40different perspective than the

45:42people who are now running it.

45:45All hands need to be on deck.

45:49>> Thanks, Arlene. I just

45:51wanted to give a brief response.

45:53Thoughts? You know, these are,

45:55you know, interesting questions.

45:56I've certainly heard from our

45:59PD themselves that they are

46:00feeling under fruits. That said,

46:03it's complicated for an agency

46:04like the police accountability,

46:06where we're also supposed to be

46:07holding them accountable as

46:08opposed to, you know, being,

46:10you know, sort of public

46:13relations or, you know,

46:14speaking on their behalf, so to

46:15speak. And for example, we see

46:17community members much more

46:19willing to submit complaints to

46:20our agency than going to the

46:22professional standards section,

46:23police department. I'd be I'd

46:28be curious about or I'd be

46:29concerned or wondering about,

46:30you know, aligning very closely

46:33with the police department.

46:34Does that in any way risk, you

46:36know, people feeling like, well,

46:37if they bring a could they

46:39become skeptical of bringing

46:40complaints to the BAB because

46:42they see the they want the PA

46:44to be an independent agency

46:45they can go to with their

46:46concerns. So that's sort of one

46:50thing to think about, another

46:51maybe thing to think about. And

46:52it relates to sort of some of

46:54the work we could do with

46:56respect to policy. And that's,

46:57you know, so look, if in a

46:59reality where, you know, RPD

47:00might not have as many officers

47:02as RPD would want, might there

47:04be ways to try to fill some of

47:06the gaps in the community with

47:07other sorts of services to

47:09provide, you know, you know,

47:10whether it's related to mental

47:12health or, you know, drug

47:14treatment or whatever the case

47:15may be, whatever particular

47:17community issue you're working

47:18on, poverty, there might be

47:20other ways of dealing with

47:21these issues other than

47:22anything, I think it's worth

47:23exploring all of those options

47:25so that, you know, when we're

47:27thinking about questions like,

47:29so I just wanted wanted to

47:30share that it's not saying we

47:32have answer to some of these

47:34big questions right here, right

47:36now, but these are just some of

47:38the things going through my

47:39mind as I think.

47:41>> Okay.

47:41>> Thank you so much for

47:42sharing because as you put

47:44forth your perspective, it's

47:46coming across us against them.

47:49And what I'm saying is the

47:51whole community is together and

47:55reimagining safety for

47:57everybody. And we need, if we

48:01want black and brown officers,

48:06we need to see what it is that

48:10we can do better because it is

48:14to the advantage of the

48:16community to have people who

48:17look like us, who understand

48:19how we speak, to know what

48:20we're doing, who are vested

48:22interest in it, and live in the

48:23city. Because the last time I

48:25heard the majority of the

48:27officers who are now on the

48:30force don't even live in the

48:31city. So now if we continue to

48:36take the approach that we have

48:38been so far them against us, we

48:41will not have the unified

48:47community working together on

48:49the same problem. Safety

48:53reimagined for everybody.

48:57>> I got a actually Amen that

49:01because if we're going out into

49:03the community, we might be the

49:06hold them accountable. But

49:08accountability don't really

49:09mean that we're pointing a

49:11finger at them saying that

49:12they're doing their job wrong.

49:15Accountability. We all in here

49:16should be held accountable to

49:17whatever it is that we actually

49:19do. We supposed to take

49:21accountability. So the we have

49:23to bridge the gap between the

49:25community and the police

49:27department and the government

49:29altogether. Okay. Because we,

49:30the people, as far as the

49:33Constitution go, we are the

49:35people. We're the ones who pay

49:36the taxes. We're the ones who

49:38actually vote. And we're saying

49:40that people out there in the

49:42community, you need to get up

49:44and learn who is representing

49:48you and become accountable

49:52yourself, because the police

49:53can't do everything by

49:55themselves. We also have to, as

49:57a community, we have to follow

49:59the rules and regulations and

50:01don't always go around saying

50:02that we're the victims, okay?

50:04Because victim mentality causes

50:06division. So we need all need

50:08to be on one accord. And I want

50:11to say also maybe talk to some

50:13of the government officials to

50:14find out if they can all start

50:17like a police academy for young

50:20people like the school, you

50:21know, all these charter schools

50:23we got going on, right? And so

50:26that to me would be something

50:27that we might can talk to

50:30whoever about so they would

50:32understand what policing is and

50:35also get an education and

50:37therefore be ready because a

50:39lot of our children, I'm sorry

50:41to say this, right. They really

50:44can't pass, you know, the exam

50:47to be a police officer. So that

50:51is where we need to look to try

50:53to get them educated so they

50:54can all they can become a

50:57police officer.

50:58>> So for once, I'm not arguing

51:02with you.

51:04>> I didn't hear you.

51:06>> I said for once, I'm not

51:07arguing with you.

51:10>> That's because you. Well,

51:12anyway, I'm going to call you

51:13on the phone. You're still

51:14going to argue with.

51:15>> Me, okay?

51:17>> Alright. Any other comments

51:18or anything related to new

51:20business? Okay. Any motion for

51:26executive session? Hearing?

51:30None. Do we have a motion for

51:32adjourn adjournment?

51:34>> I second.

51:35>> All adjourn. We're adjourned.

51:38Thank you.

51:43>> Wow.

51:43>> That was quick.

51:47>> Yeah. You know.

52:08We used to

52:08have. Someone would have to

52:10lift 200 pounds. A certain

52:15number of.

52:21>> Yes, ma'am. I'm taking off

52:23like a turkey through the corn.

52:35Yeah, it would be going on

52:37seven years. Yeah, yeah. No

52:38time for new blood. Definitely.

52:41But I'm still going to be doing

52:43stuff. Y'all ain't getting rid

52:45of me. Nah.

52:46>> I.

52:47>> Got work to do, b

```*