2026-10-27 - Public Safety Committee

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07:01>> Call the public safety committee to

07:03order and our first presentation is from

07:05Mr. Davis on the

07:08civilian appeal board.

07:11>> Hi, good afternoon.

07:13I have the

07:16privilege of presenting the civilian

07:17appeals board's annual report. Um

07:22for the benefit of those of you who may

07:23not have heard a civilian appeals board

07:24report before, this is a report of a

07:28committee. So, this is presented by the

07:29office of oversight and public

07:30accountability because we serve as

07:32liaison to that board, but this is the

07:35board's annual report. This time, this

07:37is a bi-annual report. We'll talk about

07:39some of the rationale behind that as we

07:41move forward.

07:42So, today,

07:44um the our agenda is pretty simple.

07:45We'll talk about the civilian appeals

07:47board, make sure we're on the same page

07:48and fully understand how it works. We'll

07:50explain the mission and the purpose of

07:51the board, talk a little bit about the

07:53structure, um the appellate process,

07:56some complaint trends, and CAB appeals

07:59more broadly.

08:02So, the civilian appeals board was

08:03established in 1996 through city

08:06commission policy 800-02.

08:09Um now, we were we are not the only

08:12review board in the state. There are

08:14also review boards in Detroit, and Ann

08:16Arbor, and Kalamazoo, and now they're

08:18starting to

08:19come up several places across the state.

08:22But,

08:23Grand Rapids has always been a leader in

08:25this space, and I think that's something

08:26we should pause and really celebrate is

08:29that before civilian appeals boards or

08:31review boards were popular in the state

08:32of Michigan, we were doing it because we

08:34were leaning into this space of justice.

08:36Now, our civilian appeals board and

08:39every civilian appeals board is

08:40structured differently. One of the

08:41things you'll hear about civilian

08:42oversight is there's not one model that

08:44just fits every area.

08:46One of the things that's unique about

08:48our civilian appeals board is it does

08:49have authority that I think a lot of

08:51boards would ask for, and that authority

08:53is to as when it reviews uh

08:57closed internal affairs cases that fall

08:59within its jurisdiction, it does have

09:00the power to review that and make a

09:02determination to overturn a decision of

09:04IA. That's a unique authority. When I've

09:07talked about that at national

09:08conferences, I have heard other leaders

09:11say we really wish we had that

09:12authority. So, that's something when

09:14you're talking about the CAB board and

09:15community are being asked about it,

09:17that's something that we should know. It

09:18is a unique authority, and it's

09:19something that I think helps us move

09:22accountability forward in Grand Rapids.

09:25I did want to refer to

09:28a quote from the then chair of the

09:30civilian appeals board, who was Jason

09:32Osborne, and he gave this quote. He

09:35said, "The benefit of this model is

09:37profound. It ensures that Grand Rapids

09:39has true independent, citizen-led police

09:41oversight."

09:43Residents who feel they have been

09:45wronged and are unsatisfied with the

09:47outcome of an internal affairs

09:48investigation have a meaningful

09:50recourse, an appeal to the board of

09:52their peers. And that's the way

09:54community sees this space. So, I know

09:57there's often conversation about the

09:58board, and but looking at this authority

10:01is an important thing for us to do, and

10:02I do think it's an important

10:04space for the city. So, when we look at

10:07the authority of this board, this board

10:08can hear certain types of cases. Uh

10:11those cases involve

10:13complaints that have these allegations,

10:15use of excessive force, falsification

10:18and lying, civil rights violation, or

10:20hostility and discourtesy, or other

10:22conduct unbecoming of an officer when

10:24it's committed in the context of racial

10:26animosity or prejudice. Uh so, generally

10:29we talk about that in the context of the

10:31police department's impartial policing

10:32policy.

10:34The other thing uh to note here is this

10:36is based off of findings. So, when a

10:38complaint is submitted to the Internal

10:39Affairs Division, they make findings in

10:41what we call the complaint disposition

10:43report. Uh we make a determination on if

10:46a complaint is eligible based off of the

10:47findings that are made. So, if Internal

10:50Affairs makes a finding regarding one of

10:51these things, then we determine that

10:53it's eligible.

10:57So, when we talk about the mission of

10:58the Civilian Appeals Board, uh I'm going

11:00to read the exact language cuz I think

11:02it's important. It's to encourage

11:03compliance with rules and regulations

11:05concerning the conduct of police

11:07officers during interactions with

11:08citizens, to encourage individuals who

11:10believe they have been mistreated by

11:12police officers to use the internal

11:13complaint processes of the Grand Rapids

11:16Police Department to have those officers

11:18conduct review to create a process that

11:20fairly and evenhandedly evaluates and

11:22judges the conduct of everyone involved

11:25to determine whether or not a breach of

11:26departmental rules and regulations

11:28occurred, and to afford the community a

11:30sense of confidence

11:31uh that the community itself is involved

11:33as necessary in reviewing the activity

11:36of its police officers. When we talk

11:37about this, it's important for us to

11:39note

11:40that uh the the Civilian Appeals Board

11:42is really leaning into a space that

11:44involves our employees. Uh and that so

11:47it therefore it involves employment law.

11:50And it's sometimes I think uh it's easy

11:52for people to think about it in the

11:53context of criminal law or traditional

11:55court or maybe even some of those court

11:57shows we watch, right? Uh but this is

11:59not that space. This is not a criminal

12:01courtroom. Um this is not where those

12:03things are evaluated. The Civilian

12:05Appeals Board members look at the law

12:08and the policy uh as it relates to what

12:11has been determined for the city of

12:12Grand Rapids and they make the

12:13determinations about that. It's not

12:15their opportunity to come in and say we

12:17want this to be different and therefore

12:19we're going to find that the officer was

12:21in violation. We remind them of that and

12:23they've done a a good job of sticking to

12:25that and what their determinations are.

12:27Uh but there is a distinction between

12:29saying, "Hey, a community member can

12:30come in and say we're changing this rule

12:33through this process." This is not the

12:34process to change the rule. This is the

12:36process to interpret whether that rule

12:37was followed appropriately.

12:41The next this slide talks about uh the

12:43purpose of it and that lines exactly

12:44with what the the mission is. So, I

12:46won't read that word for word.

12:49So, throughout the time period of this

12:50report, um the individuals listed on

12:53this slide served on the Civilian

12:55Appeals Board. I want to pause and thank

12:56them, they may be watching, for their

12:58service uh to to CAB. It is a unique

13:00space to to serve in because it's a

13:03quasi-judicial space. Uh meaning that it

13:06it requires a lot of training. It

13:07requires uh a lot of time and effort to

13:11navigate these complaints. So, we're

13:12grateful for the effort that's been put

13:13in. Um and this training that's provided

13:16is not just provided by OPA. It's in

13:19partnership with the law department. Uh

13:22our city attorney served uh with me with

13:25the CAB for many years uh but now our

13:27deputy city attorney, Sarah Hartman, uh

13:29served in that space. We're grateful for

13:31for her role there. Also, labor

13:32relations is involved in that space and

13:33of course the police department is

13:35involved in that space. The training

13:36unit and internal affairs are present at

13:38every hearing and we'll talk about how

13:40that part works.

13:42Uh but uh

13:43in 2025, there was significant turnover

13:46on the Civilian Appeals Board. Uh I will

13:48say unprecedented turnover on the

13:50Civilian Appeals Board which places in

13:51the space where a lot of our focus

13:53during that time was really on getting

13:55the board up to speed, training the

13:56board to make sure they were ready to do

13:58the work of this board. Again, it's a

14:00unique space that requires specialized

14:03uh training to navigate. So, some of the

14:05training that was provided was a

14:07overview of civilian oversight and

14:09oversight board models from across the

14:11country. That's training that's

14:12recommended by the National Association

14:14for the Civilian oversight of law

14:16enforcement, uh which several members of

14:18my staff are are certified oversight

14:20practitioners, so we provide that

14:21training. Uh we also talk about the

14:23history of oversight in Grand Rapids, as

14:26well as the appellate process

14:28altogether. Uh the police department

14:30provides use of force training, which is

14:31really helpful and hands-on at the

14:33police department. Um

14:35And the law department uh provides an

14:37overview of employment law to the extent

14:39that we can in such uh that space, as

14:41well as relevant relevant legal

14:43considerations. They The law department

14:45also provides legal updates uh on a

14:47case-by-case basis as that's needed to

14:49understand what's going on in a

14:51particular case.

14:52Um so, we lost all but two of these

14:54members that are currently or or they

14:56transition from the board. Um so, all

14:58but two of those members. So, we started

15:00this year, and we'll talk about this in

15:01the next report, uh going through that

15:03training and getting getting everyone

15:05back up to speed so that we could

15:07move over move forward. Uh given that

15:09loss of institutional knowledge, it did

15:11take some time, and you'll see that

15:12reflected throughout the report. But,

15:14I'm grateful to say we're up to speed,

15:15and that's in large part due to the

15:17uh support of my colleagues across the

15:19city.

15:22Okay. So, when we talk about the

15:24appellate process, let's just walk

15:26through what that looks like. So, the

15:27Internal Affairs Unit completes an

15:29investigation. Now, again, when we talk

15:31about how complaints are filed,

15:32complaints can be filed and these are

15:34general complaints, not the appeals

15:35themselves, can be filed with the police

15:37department, they can be filed with OPA,

15:39they can be filed and have been filed

15:41with the law department, and sometimes

15:42those calls come directly to 311.

15:45Um And after the IAU completes that

15:48investigation,

15:49uh appeals are allowed when a complaint

15:52disposition report concludes that the

15:53complaint was either not sustained,

15:55unfounded, or exonerated. I'll talk

15:57about what that means on the next slide.

16:00Um

16:01And then, the complainant submits the

16:02appeal in writing. Now, uh currently,

16:05OPA serves as the liaison uh to the

16:09Civilian Appeals Board. Historically, uh

16:11before 2019, the law department served

16:14as that liaison. That transition was

16:16made um

16:17and that's the law department also works

16:19directly with I I U navigating that part

16:22of the process. So, CAP came in and now

16:24receives those

16:26complaints for the appeal. The CAP

16:30binder is prepared with all of the

16:31relevant evidence. CAP then reviews the

16:34findings of I I U

16:36the and all the evidence gathered

16:38during the appeals process. Their first

16:40question is whether or not they have

16:41enough information to move forward. If

16:43they have enough information to move

16:44forward, then they review the rest of

16:46the complaint and make a determination

16:48on whether or not they agree with the

16:49findings of I I U or would move to

16:51modify it in some way. If they go to

16:53modify it, they do have to give

16:55rationale for why they would be making

16:56that

16:57determination. Again, all discipline in

17:00the city is a decision of the city

17:01manager. So, the civilian appeals board

17:03is not involved in making a discipline

17:05determination in any way.

17:08Okay, so when we talk about those

17:09recommended findings,

17:11there's a couple of things. So,

17:12unfounded when complaint is determined

17:15to be unfounded, that means that the

17:17investigation proved that the acts

17:19complained of did not occur.

17:21For an example of that would be somebody

17:23saying that they saw me across the

17:26street right now, but I'm standing here.

17:28Well, if the video shows I'm here, then

17:30that would be unfounded.

17:32When someone is exonerated, that means

17:34that the allegation occurred, but it was

17:36justified, lawful, or proper. So,

17:38someone says they saw me across the

17:39street, and it's like, yes, I was across

17:42the street, but I was there for a

17:43justified, lawful, or proper reason.

17:45We talk about not sustained, that means

17:47that the investigation didn't disclose

17:49sufficient evidence to prove that the

17:51allegation occurred or did not occur.

17:53So, there was not enough information to

17:55make that determination. And then when

17:57something is sustained, it means there

17:59was sufficient evidence to clearly prove

18:01that the allegation made did actually

18:03occur

18:04and it was a violative of the rules or

18:06procedure.

18:09So, when we talk about complaints,

18:12the reason traditionally complaints have

18:13been discussed in the CAP report is

18:16because the source of CAP's appeals are

18:19initially investigations provided to the

18:21police department. Um, so the data we

18:23received suggested there was 94 uh total

18:26complaints

18:27in 2024 and a total of 154 complaints

18:31in 2025 received by Internal Affairs.

18:37Now,

18:38I had some conversation before we

18:40presented today and learned that the way

18:42that some of these numbers were

18:44calculated and reported to OPA were is a

18:46little different this year. So, here

18:49you'll see that it say the

18:50administratively closed complaints

18:52increased about 400% and what what the

18:55information that I've received

18:57suggest that

18:59it wasn't a 400% increase. However, the

19:02way that it was reported was reported

19:04differently this year, which is why the

19:06data supports it wasn't it was that

19:08large of an increase. While it was an

19:10increase, it wasn't the full increase to

19:11that amount.

19:15Okay.

19:16So,

19:17the other thing that I would just point

19:19to as we conclude is the the number of

19:22CAB appeals. So, CAB does a lot of work,

19:24receives a lot of training, but that

19:25doesn't mean that people always appeal

19:26to CAB.

19:28It's a another step that has to be taken

19:30in order for them to do that. That means

19:32they have to after doing a complaint,

19:34they have to file an appeal in order to

19:36go forward to the next step. That does

19:38not always occur, but when complainants

19:40want to move forward in that way, we do

19:41move forward in that way. That shows the

19:43number of appeals that have been heard

19:45and how we move forward with that.

19:47Again, 2025 a lot of the time was

19:50getting board members up to speed so

19:51that they can hear complaints. At our

19:53last meeting,

19:56which was I think last week, CAB did

19:59have an appeal. They actually affirmed

20:01the decision of Internal Affairs. Moving

20:03forward, they were able to do that

20:04because they received the appropriate

20:06training.

20:07And

20:08the last thing I'll add is just that I

20:10know there have been some conversation

20:11regarding the reimagination of the

20:13Civilian Appeals Board. I'm sure there's

20:14questions regarding that. Today's report

20:16is about the actual business of the

20:18board. There we do plan to bring forward

20:22a conversation regarding that

20:23reimagination, an update regarding that

20:25in January of next year. With that, I'll

20:28pause for questions.

20:33>> Uh Mr. Davis, I have one quick one. Uh

20:35we're now in October. Do Can you tell us

20:37what our trends are for cases in 2026?

20:40>> I can't tell you about the trends for

20:42Internal Affairs cases.

20:44>> No, I meant uh

20:44>> Oh oh appeals?

20:46>> Yeah.

20:46>> Okay, there's been one appeal heard in

20:482026. There is another appeal it as we

20:52say in the hopper uh that I anticipate

20:54being heard before the end of the year.

20:56>> Okay. Uh and so the total complaint

20:59number, that's not That's the number

21:00that go to IA. That's that. Okay.

21:03>> Um

21:04Okay.

21:05Uh second question I had um and this is

21:08I think something that's important for

21:09the public.

21:10Um

21:11I

21:12you and I are both lawyers and uh both

21:15did uh work in the criminal defense

21:17space

21:18uh or the or the prosecute but the

21:20criminal justice space. Um

21:22the

21:24uh in the court system, of course, if

21:26you have an appeal, the court of appeals

21:28doesn't generate new facts. They don't

21:30go out and

21:31question witnesses. They don't

21:33uh you know, have new hearings, right?

21:35They're looking at a an established

21:36record and reviewing that record. That's

21:38what we mean when we say appeal, right?

21:41Uh so can you speak about CAB and and

21:44how it mirrors that process?

21:46>> Yes, a great question. CAB

21:48for the most part operates like a

21:51uh a quasi court of appeal type space uh

21:54in that

21:55the role of CAB is not to have new

21:57hearings or to It does not CAB does not

21:59uh bring in witnesses to testify to what

22:01occurred. CAB is looking at a closed

22:04case. However, there is one exception to

22:06that. If CAB looks and says uh there was

22:09something that was not reviewed and it

22:11needed to They feel like they needed to

22:13be reviewed in order to make a

22:15determination. An example would be um

22:17let's say that there are

22:1912 officers on scene at an incident and

22:23IA reviewed 10 of the videos to report

22:25of it. CAB may look and say there were

22:27two other videos that we think we need

22:29to see. Now, IA very well will

22:31understand this officer was standing

22:32right next to the other officer. In

22:34order to make their determination, they

22:35didn't need to see that video. But, the

22:37board might say we did. Then they can go

22:39back. They can request from us uh to go

22:42to IA and get that video so they can

22:44look at it. So, that's the extent of

22:45additional evidence. It's not designed

22:47to take testimony or do something like

22:49that. It very much is designed to be an

22:50appeal.

22:51>> And so, um the other point that's worth

22:53making here, I guess, is you know,

22:55sometimes I hear people in in the

22:57community say, "Well, it ought to have

22:58subpoena power." Well, um essentially

23:01what you're saying is

23:03you're suggesting you have a body which

23:04has real investiga- I mean, can can go

23:07out and

23:08try to sort of re- reinvestigate a case.

23:11And that's that's problematic in the in

23:14the I mean, there's a reason we don't do

23:15that in our court of appeals.

23:17Um so, there are certainly strong

23:18reasons to follow that for for the CAB.

23:21>> Sure.

23:22>> Right.

23:22>> Yes, sir. I will say that there are

23:24different review board models across the

23:26country. There are review boards that

23:28have just that authority. They take

23:29testimony, they uh have subpoena power,

23:32they navigate in that way. That is not

23:34the design of our model. I think that

23:36the distinction I often see in community

23:38where people say that's the authority

23:39they would desire, I understand the

23:41framework for that, and I'm not saying

23:42it's without merit. But, the big

23:44distinction is those boards who have

23:46that subpoena authority don't have the

23:47power to overturn decisions. So, uh

23:51and I and personally, I think the power

23:53to overturn decisions is a strong

23:54authority uh that that we would want to

23:57hold on to in this civilian oversight

23:58space.

23:59>> And that's exactly the advantage of

24:01having this be a true appeal board.

24:03>> Yes.

24:03>> And not a it's not a reinvestigation

24:05board, and it's it's an appeal board.

24:07That a That a fair way to summarize it?

24:08>> that's a fair way to say it.

24:09>> Yeah. Okay. Thank you.

24:12>> Uh Commissioner Sossi.

24:13>> Thank you.

24:15So, in 2006, this was the first board

24:18that I served on um as a volunteer. Um

24:21my employer at the time said, "We don't

24:23have a lot of money for training, so we

24:24think you should be on a city board."

24:26>> [laughter]

24:27>> And

24:28um I remember going and it kind of the

24:29same thing, you know, we there's like

24:31big packets, you know, different things

24:33happy in the went through some training

24:36myself, but it's been such a long time.

24:38So, I want to just

24:39review a couple of things. One, thank

24:40you for this presentation. Thank you,

24:42Mayor, for

24:43for [snorts] your questions. That's

24:44really helpful to to kind of understand

24:46from that legal perspective.

24:49So, in 2024, you had that the CAB

24:51reviewed. So, slide 11, CAB reviewed

24:54resulted in finding affirmed. And then

24:57on slide 8, there's possible recommended

25:00findings.

25:02But the the term affirmed isn't on

25:04there. Am I

25:06I just want to make sure I'm matching up

25:07the language if for anybody who might be

25:09reading this.

25:09>> Good question. Okay, so when we talk

25:11about unfounded, exonerated, not

25:13sustained, and sustained,

25:15what we're talking about is the language

25:17that comes in the complaint disposition

25:18reports when internal affairs looks at

25:21the case originally.

25:23So, what happens is when CAB receives

25:26it, I'm trying to go When CAB receives

25:28it, they'll see this language coming

25:31from internal affairs.

25:32>> So, that's not your language.

25:33>> That's not CAB's language. Afterwards,

25:36CAB will either

25:38uh sustain what essentially affirm,

25:40essentially saying this is what

25:42we agree with what internal affairs

25:44said, or they'll modify it and say we

25:46want to switch it to one of the others

25:49that is listed on the screen right now

25:51up in that way.

25:52>> Okay.

25:53Um that might be helpful just to add cuz

25:54I was I mean and I was scanning, so but

25:57um

25:58that would be good to know. And then

26:02for 2025, the ones that were eligible,

26:04the 26, and there was three appeals

26:06appeals that were filed.

26:07>> Mhm.

26:08>> Do we know is there um you know, I'm

26:10thinking about kind of it's it's very

26:12different, but our FOIA appeals process,

26:13right? So, people want some information,

26:16they have this conversation. Sometimes

26:18we're able to answer their questions

26:21before they do the full appeal. Is there

26:23any of that that occurs from when like

26:26if we know the individual

26:28and this is more so those if they filed

26:30the appeal. Because then there were zero

26:32appeals that were heard. So that's why I

26:34was wondering is how does it go from the

26:3626 to the three to the zero? Is it

26:39having that conversation with the three?

26:41I know your department is responsible

26:42for other things in terms of like know

26:44your rights and those sort of training.

26:45So I don't know sometimes if things

26:47might overlap there. Just want to

26:48understand that.

26:49>> Good question. I think there are the

26:50there are several factors that go into

26:52that. Uh certainly what you're

26:53describing is part of it. Our office has

26:56conversations with individuals when they

26:57ask us and we we explain what the law

26:59and policy says

27:01regarding that and sometimes that does

27:02influence people. Also know that

27:04internal affairs has conversations

27:06with members of community when they call

27:08and ask questions about those things as

27:10well. I think another factor is

27:13complaint disposition reports come from

27:15the police department. It includes a

27:17uh a a a section a line that that gives

27:20reference to the civilian appeals board

27:22process.

27:23Um but unlike if people don't file their

27:26complaints with OPA initially, we don't

27:28always know to walk them through that

27:32civilian appeals board process to an

27:34appeal. For example, we're not calling

27:35and saying, "Hey, do you want to file a

27:37CAB appeal?" or following up on that

27:39part of it. So I think for some people,

27:41if we're just honest about it, we've

27:42gone they've gone through a process and

27:44going through another step of a process

27:45seems like a lot. So I will say the

27:47combination of all of those factors

27:49probably the reason that some of those

27:50appeals are low.

27:52As it relates specifically to 25 though,

27:54there was turnover on the board where

27:57and where we didn't we were unable to

27:59maintain quorums. We also had to get

28:02everybody fully trained. So some of the

28:04complaints that we're seeing this year

28:05include things that were filed last

28:06year.

28:07>> Sorry, I think you said some of that

28:08before, but thank you for restating it.

28:09>> problem.

28:12>> What have been the number of complaints

28:14thus far year to date?

28:16>> I I can't speak to that number and

28:18that's the number that internal affairs

28:20internal affairs

28:21>> I asked that.

28:22>> Oh, you did?

28:22All right, my apologies.

28:24Frequency of this report, I know this is

28:25the first time that we've seen and and

28:27witnessed some of this.

28:28Um is it it's not every two years, but

28:31it's I guess the base report

28:32>> generally a annual report. Uh

28:34it's again it was bi-annual because of

28:36some of the turnover we were having this

28:37time. Our intention is to do it

28:39annually. Uh I feel like the board is in

28:41a uh stable place at this point. Again,

28:43thanks in large part to the help of Ms.

28:44Harmon.

28:45>> Mhm.

28:45>> Um so, I think we will be able to move

28:48forward well and do the report annually.

28:50>> And what have been some of the requests

28:51for a restructuring

28:53of the CAB?

28:55>> So, we'll give a more thorough report

28:56about that in January, but uh sure

28:58Virginians we we've heard requests

29:00related to subpoena authority. We've

29:02heard requests related to uh the ability

29:04for a complainant to share their side,

29:07right, uh to the appeals board. We heard

29:09requests um for

29:11as it relates to training for the board.

29:14Uh and you know, there's also been

29:16in fairness concerned on the other side

29:19uh related to some of the what legal

29:21term I will use is dicta stated by the

29:24Civilian Appeals Board uh which will be

29:25like other thoughts um during appellate

29:29hearings and things of that nature. So,

29:30we've heard all of those types of

29:32things. We're we're developing a pretty

29:34extensive process to evaluate this and

29:37look forward to reporting on it in in

29:38detail um

29:40in the coming months.

29:41>> And Mr. Davis, you're very good at

29:42giving, you know, simple broken down

29:44examples, but you used a fancy word

29:46there. So, dicta means if I were saying

29:48if the question was did I cross the

29:50street with the light or not, and in the

29:52middle of it I said, "And I think the

29:53lions stink." That's dicta.

29:55>> It's a great way to describe it and I

29:56think in in fairness, transparency, uh

30:01we have community members serving in

30:03this space. Not all of them are lawyers

30:05or have that legal background, although

30:06they're trained to navigate the space.

30:09So,

30:10Ms. Harmon and I uh partner to remind

30:12them of some of the legal spaces

30:14navigating uh as we walk through that.

30:16Uh the dicta makes sense as a community

30:18member to have an opinion and a thought,

30:20but when you're making a record, uh you

30:22know, that that becomes a part of the

30:23record and that can impact how fair it

30:26seems to the members of the police

30:27department who are hearing it. Mhm. Mhm.

30:30Mhm. Probably not a legal,

30:32uh but definitely impacts that part of

30:34it. But, I also just want to pause and

30:35and really thank the people who serve in

30:37this space, who have served, who are

30:39serving. Our current chair um

30:42is doing an amazing job. Uh our last

30:44chair did an amazing job navigating this

30:46space, and it's a lot of work to lean in

30:48here. So, I'm grateful for for all of

30:50them. Also, Mr. Nick De Ruiter is not

30:52here today, but he really was

30:53responsible for pulling this report

30:55together. So, I want to thank him as

30:56well.

30:58>> Yep. Uh I certainly want to echo your

30:59sentiments, Mr. Davis. I mean, this is

31:01this is a real commitment on the part of

31:03citizens who don't get paid to do this

31:05work. Um and it's a real commitment to

31:07to review transcripts and, you know,

31:09having done appellate work myself, hours

31:12and hours, and it's hard to sometimes

31:13stay awake when you're when you're doing

31:15that stuff. Um and to add that on top of

31:17all of your other life responsibilities

31:19is a is a big ask. So, certainly very

31:21grateful that people who from the

31:23community are willing to step up and do

31:24that work.

31:25>> Thank you.

31:28>> Okay. Not seeing any other questions, so

31:29thank you so much, Mr. Davis. That'll

31:31take us to our next um

31:34uh item on our agenda, which I'm not

31:36seeing in my screen yet, but it looks

31:38like it's going to be the fire

31:38department. So.

31:49Reviewing fire fire prevention efforts.

31:53Which is

31:54the best way to deal with a fire, right?

31:57Not have it happen.

31:59The best way to deal with a fire is to

32:00not have it happen.

32:01>> Precisely.

32:02Thank you. Thank you, sir.

32:04>> All right. Good afternoon, everyone. I'm

32:06Fire Marshal Bill Smith, City of Grand

32:07Rapids Fire Department, and I am the uh

32:10manager for our Fire Prevention

32:11Division,

32:12uh of which I'm very proud to serve.

32:14Um

32:15so, thank you for your time.

32:17I want to explain to you that uh it

32:19really is about community risk

32:20reduction, and that's what we're

32:22modeling after, and you'll see that I've

32:24just pulled up uh five uh E's, and uh

32:27everything that we do in fire prevention

32:30supports our emergency responders. And

32:33uh we do that through education,

32:34engineering, economic incentive, and

32:37enforcement. Notice that enforcement is

32:40last. We really do try to get people to

32:42comply without having to go down the

32:44violation road.

32:47We have 22

32:48personnel in our division. We have both

32:50sworn and civilian

32:53that work for the city of Grand Rapids

32:55and doing the good things that we do out

32:56there

32:57and trying to prevent fires.

33:01So daily work includes um

33:06property business inspections, complaint

33:08response, site plan review, fire

33:10investigation, and continuing ed and

33:12professional development for the people

33:14that work in the fire prevention

33:16division.

33:20The fire prevention division continues

33:22to make progress at these efforts and we

33:25do that as we're assisted by our fire

33:27suppression part-time inspectors and our

33:29fire prevention inspectors as well.

33:33Assisted by the part-time inspectors,

33:35we've completed 650 operational permit

33:38inspections throughout the city and we

33:40have about another 200 to go by the end

33:42of the year.

33:43And I'd like to point out that two of

33:46our personnel that we work very closely

33:48with, Mr. Gary Allen and Ted Jensen, who

33:51by the way was

33:53cited for being the fire inspector of

33:56the year from the Michigan Fire

33:57Inspector Society. Something we're very

33:59proud of Ted for his efforts here in the

34:00city of Grand Rapids and he has a lot of

34:03experience and knowledge he imparts upon

34:05our fire prevention inspectors on a

34:07daily basis.

34:08Gary Allen is

34:10kind of new to the group but both

34:13Mr. Allen and Mr. Jensen work in our

34:15building department and do a lot of plan

34:17reviews and with them they have

34:19completed 753 construction plan reviews

34:22and over 283 roughing and final building

34:25inspections with the assistance of our

34:27crews in fire prevention.

34:33High-rise buildings

34:36are maxman restruction. I reported that

34:38out a few months ago.

34:39We are engaged with them. We

34:41uh, visit them every couple years to

34:43make sure that their,

34:45uh,

34:46egress and accesses are correct and

34:48their fire life safety systems have been

34:49inspected, tested, and maintained

34:51appropriately. So, we typically don't

34:53run into, uh, too, uh,

34:56scary of violations in these buildings

34:58because they're investment. These

35:00properties are, uh, huge. I mean, if you

35:02think about it, uh, they're essentially

35:04a neighborhood on its end. So, we have a

35:06lot of people that live in these, uh,

35:08structures and they work, uh, throughout

35:10the,

35:11uh, the day and we want to make sure

35:12that they're safe. So, we do spend time

35:14with them. We have over 100 high-rise

35:17buildings in the city of Grand Rapids.

35:21So, again, it's all about education when

35:23we engage with the property managers.

35:28Another thing, uh, I'm I'm really proud

35:30of is how we engage with our community,

35:32uh,

35:33from, uh, the very small to the aged.

35:36And here we have, um, our fire

35:39prevention week, uh, kicked off October

35:414th. Uh, we're engaged right now with

35:44second grade presentations. We have

35:46about 40 schools that we visit every

35:48year, which means about 2,000 students.

35:50We're about 2/3 of the way,

35:52um, and we will be wrapping up, um,

35:54probably about mid-November.

35:56So, that's, uh, very, uh, exciting for

35:59us. And then, of course, we have,

36:01um, events that we go out to. Our

36:03personnel are engaging with the

36:04community at, uh, a variety of events.

36:06And, uh, this is also including our

36:08emergency, uh, management office. So,

36:11this, uh, map does show where we've

36:13located at. And, uh, if you look at the,

36:16>> [snorts]

36:16>> the, uh,

36:18the event categories, you'll see where

36:20we've engaged with both, uh, the office

36:22of emergency management or on our own,

36:24on our own. Pardon me.

36:30Another thing that we do, and I'm

36:31actually moving to, uh, office of

36:33special events, uh, right after this

36:35meeting, is we engage with all the

36:37personnel and all the event organizers

36:38that, uh, come to our city to, uh, do

36:41some really fun and

36:42And, um, so, I receive information

36:45through one of our record management

36:47systems. And if I have questions, then

36:49of course we're going to call those call

36:51those out. But we do get engaged with

36:54large outdoor assemblies, and you can

36:56imagine that with Acrisure, we've been

36:58very busy with a lot of things that are

37:00going on at the amphitheater. And so,

37:03very happy with the results of it this

37:05year. We also engage with festivals such

37:09as what we have here at Calder Plaza

37:11with outdoor cooking, open flame,

37:13fireworks, and mobile food vehicles.

37:20And when

37:21I've celebrated this before, I know that

37:23Chief Brown has and and the rest of the

37:25executive staff, our resident safety

37:26program,

37:28it's it's very unique.

37:30We still are doing great work out there

37:33in protecting our citizens.

37:35Since January 1st, we've installed over

37:384,200 smoke alarms, 1,500 carbon

37:40monoxide detectors in over 800 homes.

37:43So, I'm very proud of that work. I think

37:45that is keeping our citizens safe

37:48while they are asleep. So, occupant

37:50notification is

37:52very very good

37:54when they engage with these smoke

37:55alarms, and of course calling 911 to get

37:58the responders in route.

38:04So, since inception, we have installed

38:06over 84,000 smoke alarms, 17,000 carbon

38:11monoxide detectors in over 15,000 homes

38:13in the city of Grand Rapids.

38:16And I want to celebrate the Grand Rapids

38:17Fire Prevention Foundation, something

38:20that's entity was engaged in 2022,

38:23and they just recently gave us a check

38:26for $75,000

38:28to purchase inventory for this program.

38:30I'm very proud of that work.

38:34Lastly,

38:36as I've like to keep things brief, sir.

38:39We wish to thank the community,

38:41and the citizens, and our elected

38:43officials for coming out and celebrating

38:45the opening of station 10, something

38:48we're very proud of and I never thought

38:50I would see two stations open up in this

38:54uh in this fire department during my

38:56career, but I'm very very proud of the

38:58work that everyone pulled together and

39:00got the job done. So, thank you for all

39:03all your support.

39:05Questions, sir.

39:06>> Uh well, I'll lead with a couple. First

39:08of all, um

39:09uh

39:11the fire station's great, but I want to

39:12give a shout-out to the the fire

39:13department for working on planning that

39:15that actually includes some community

39:16space and I think that, you know, our

39:18fire stations are maybe our most natural

39:21community uh

39:23space

39:24uh avenue because, you know, you guys

39:26staff them all the time and we got

39:28people there who can help you if you,

39:30you know, need help. So, uh really

39:32really glad that fire department worked

39:34on on that component of that uh along

39:36with our city manager and everyone who

39:38went into that work. Um

39:40second of all, I really you you noted

39:42the homes and you you said this

39:44owner-occupied and that's something that

39:45I think is worth

39:46the community knowing, too, is if you

39:49live in a uh rental unit, the city's

39:52really good at

39:53having our um housing inspectors going

39:56out and one of the biggest things they

39:57look for is show me your smoke

39:59detectors. Um but you buy a house and

40:02that doesn't happen. So, in in my house,

40:04for example, we put in uh 10-year

40:06lithium ones when we bought the house

40:09>> Mhm.

40:09>> and it wasn't until my daughter said,

40:12"Wait a minute, how long are those

40:13batteries supposed to last?" And about

40:14year 10 or 11 or 12, I mean, if

40:17you don't necessarily have the thought

40:19of, "Oh, those things up on the ceiling

40:20aren't working anymore." So, it's So,

40:22bridging that owner-occupied space is

40:25really really critical. So, it's worth

40:27pointing out you guys are keeping an eye

40:28on the people that are um in our

40:31compliance code uh code compliance folks

40:33aren't on that point. So, that's that's

40:35really great. Um

40:37uh the other thing I just just an idle

40:39question, I I wonder if I suspect that

40:42drone displays may become the new

40:43fireworks over time. Um do you guys

40:46interact with I mean, is there is there

40:48anything that's concerning that you guys

40:49have to worry about when when there's a

40:51big drone display like at the

40:52amphitheater? Do you have to make sure

40:53they're not dropping out of the sky or

40:55that they're not using them on a 60-mph

40:56wind day or like are [snorts] you part

40:58of that process or who's monitoring the

41:01safe use of those drones?

41:02>> Office of Special Events does oversee

41:04that. I believe our

41:05actually our police department are the

41:07experts on UAVs now. So,

41:10I don't think that we're necessarily

41:12engaged in the fire side of it. I think

41:13they're they're a wonderful tool for

41:15display and actually kind of prefer them

41:18over fireworks.

41:19>> Absolutely. I mean, they don't scare my

41:21dog. But what I'm what I what I what I

41:23do now I think about it say what I now

41:25that I'm saying it I realize like okay,

41:27shoot off fireworks on a really windy

41:29day, the smoke moves fast. Um but maybe

41:32there's not a lot more danger whereas

41:35you know, I I hope we can we ought to

41:37maybe have some conversation about like

41:38what are the protocols for like

41:40canceling them if there's enough wind

41:41and who's in who's in charge of making

41:43sure that the people who are who really

41:45would like to have their display go up

41:46at 12.

41:47>> Uh you know, conditions got bad for it.

41:49Doesn't make sense today or whatever.

41:50>> Right and there is an event organizer

41:53that's it's coming up here in a few

41:55weeks

41:56for Veterans Day

41:58display and I know that they're they're

42:00very much on top of

42:02their machines and they don't want to

42:03lose any. So, I'm quite certain that

42:05they would be

42:06keeping an eye on the weather and and

42:08when conditions just like fireworks, we

42:10don't want them drifting off in the

42:11crowd. So, if we have a a go no-go

42:14situation, we'll definitely call it.

42:15>> Right. Thanks.

42:17Uh Commissioner

42:19Ms. James.

42:20>> Um thank you so much for the work that

42:22you're doing and I know as a realtor at

42:24Remax of Grand Rapids, I do I did put

42:27out to my brokerage the good news of the

42:29Grand Rapids Fire Residential Safety

42:31Program so that way when we give annual

42:33updates to our clients that we've served

42:35before or 5 years ago, a reminder about

42:38your program. And that's something maybe

42:39I can share with the association so it

42:41could be a regular thing that other the

42:443,700 realtors can do.

42:47And I think

42:47>> That would be wonderful and I I would

42:48encourage that. Thank you for that.

42:51Commissioner Kilgore.

42:53>> Thank you, Mayor.

42:54I just want to highlight as well it was

42:55great to celebrate the new station right

42:59on Griggs is where I went to church all

43:00my life. So a stone's throw away from

43:02the new station.

43:04And we continue to lead. I'm very proud

43:06of our first responders here in Grand

43:08Rapids. This station is also the first

43:11station in the state of Michigan to have

43:12bilingual signage. So that is wonderful

43:15and I think it once again shows that we

43:18not only need our worst times of our

43:21lives, but they're part of our community

43:23and we can celebrate those beautiful

43:24things that connect us every day. So

43:26that was a really cool

43:29fact to learn during that as we wrapped

43:31up Hispanic Heritage Month. So really

43:34proud of you all and great to see this.

43:36>> Thank you for pointing that out.

43:39I have a question.

43:41>> So I'm curious as to your process of how

43:44you anticipate risks and then decide on

43:47the interventions that you choose to do

43:50to go out and perform fire prevention.

43:53So

43:54within that process of evaluating those

43:56risks are you using some form of data

43:59analysis or predictive modeling as you

44:01look at individual structures or

44:04categories of structures to try to get a

44:06bit more

44:08um

44:08empirically informed about what

44:11potential

44:12risks could occur.

44:14>> Yes, we do. And for the data component

44:17of looking back, hindsight's 20/20, we

44:20still, you know, are experiencing the

44:21top three,

44:23improperly

44:25discarded smoking materials, unattended

44:27cooking, and electrical issues. And that

44:29really points back to some of our more

44:31aged homes that have had, you know, a

44:33very

44:35you know, a good life but a long life

44:36and when those modifications are made,

44:39some are unfortunately done without the

44:41benefit of a licensed electrician. And

44:44service panels can fail,

44:47especially when people are not paying

44:48attention to their circuit breakers. And

44:51so when you have an overload on a a

44:54circuit and people, you know, back in

44:56the day used bus fuses, they'd use

44:57pennies to go back in there when they

44:59didn't have a fuse, right? Similarly

45:01with these uh circuit breakers, if you

45:03just keep going back and flipping them,

45:04they're going to fail. Pay attention to

45:06what that panel is telling you in in a

45:08matter of speak. That if you keep having

45:12issues where you're having to trip that

45:13breaker, you've got a problem with that

45:15circuit and you should get an

45:16electrician out there to take a look at

45:18it and give you some help with it. But

45:19yes, we do look at information like

45:21that. Predictive modeling is a little

45:22bit different. Uh we do know some

45:24certain risks out there that uh we want

45:26to get more uh

45:29refined at. Uh but one of the things

45:32that is on the horizon that we're

45:33seeing, in fact, it's not even on the

45:35horizon anymore, it's right now in our

45:36homes and is in proper use of uh

45:39um lithium-ion uh battery chargers that

45:42are maybe aftermarket or are subpar, uh

45:45people not following the manufacturer

45:47guidelines,

45:48uh

45:50pay attention to those because they

45:51really are risky and when they go off,

45:53they are violent. So, um I've talked

45:55about this before and I I definitely

45:58encourage um not having micromobility

46:00off um

46:02uh

46:02>> [clears throat]

46:02>> devices in your home. Keep them outside

46:05in the garage or something of that

46:06nature.

46:07>> Glad that you're really looking at uh

46:09all those things like that they age as

46:11you say, but the history of those

46:12individual buildings, too, and that just

46:15gives a tremendous impact to the way

46:17that we're actually intervening. So,

46:19commend you for your work. Thank you.

46:21>> Correct. Thank you very much, uh

46:22>> Chief, one of the thing I worry about a

46:23little bit, um

46:25generators have gotten a lot smaller

46:27and I'm worried that somebody who

46:29doesn't understand how carbon monoxide

46:31works is going to have a generator

46:33inside their house when there's a power

46:35outage instead of I mean, the last one I

46:37bought is the size of a cooler. It's

46:38not, you know, it's not the size of a

46:40small car in my backyard. Uh and you can

46:42get them for a couple hundred bucks and

46:44we all know power outages are real. So,

46:46maybe think about some like public

46:48public announce service and as you're

46:50doing all this other stuff, maybe you

46:52could be like, you know, the the worst

46:54thing you can do with a carbon monoxide

46:55is produce it in your inside of your

46:57home on purpose.

46:58>> Correct. And and we're dusting off that

47:00media release this week and it will be

47:02coming out. And they're a competent

47:04source of ignition.

47:05So we don't want them starting fires and

47:07we definitely do not want them in your

47:09home or outside your windows or doors

47:10and creating that type of a toxicity and

47:13somebody being injured over that.

47:15>> All right. City manager.

47:16>> Thank you.

47:17Mayor, and thank [clears throat] you

47:18Chief for the presentation and fire

47:19department for the work. And I want to

47:22echo

47:23my appreciation for the work that often

47:26is not seen. We often don't think about

47:28it unless there's a problem. So all of

47:30the pre-event inspecting and preparing

47:34prepping of buildings that you do when

47:35we have the large fireworks and

47:36gatherings. Thank you for that even

47:39making difficult situations

47:42more

47:44solution-oriented for businesses when

47:46you're doing your inspections. I know

47:47years ago they used to see the fire

47:49marshal and and run. And I think you

47:51you've

47:52you've changed the culture a little bit

47:55with

47:56the business community and they see you

47:58as a business partner and solution

48:00oriented. I know years ago we had the

48:02issue with the halls that were not

48:04modernized and we found a creative way

48:06to make sure that they're safe but also

48:09functional. So I wanted to thank you for

48:12that and I echo

48:14the sentiments around

48:16you know, celebrating the station all

48:18the partners that helped us do it but

48:20also that you made space in the station

48:23for the public safety

48:25for the police department the station.

48:27Yeah. Thank you.

48:28>> Yeah.

48:29Thank you and I will carry back all your

48:30accolades to my team.

48:33>> Thanks.

48:34Thank you. Great presentation. Okay, and

48:36that brings us on to two more from our

48:38police department. Not two more, two

48:40from our police department.

48:41Chief Trigg, we've got monthly crime

48:43stats first I think

48:45and then the overview of training.

48:53>> Do you want me to go first training?

48:54>> What's that?

48:56Stats first I believe.

49:00>> Perfect. Thank you.

49:02Good afternoon.

49:04Uh and I have to admit

49:06uh to Chief Brown,

49:07small part of me after seeing the new

49:09fire

49:10station, wanted to be a firefighter that

49:12day. So,

49:13if my co-workers don't hold that against

49:15me, but uh now

49:16>> Small part.

49:17>> Small part.

49:18>> You do have Mackey's world.

49:20>> Now, very impressive uh building. I know

49:22they're proud of it, so.

49:24Uh all right, auto thefts uh still

49:27trending down, which as I say every

49:29month, I'm

49:30I think that's uh definitely got to give

49:32some credit to

49:34uh the men and women that we have out

49:35there being a presence out in the

49:37neighborhoods and our investigative unit

49:39that you'll see later

49:40uh does a great job with uh just any of

49:43their investigations and time and

49:45effort.

49:46>> [snorts]

49:47>> Uh auto thefts, that's just by month

49:49showing the breakdown. It's no secret to

49:51anybody that our summer months are

49:53uh warmer weather usually usually

49:55higher.

49:56Moving on to robberies,

49:58uh same thing, trending down. It's

50:00that's that's all good. I want this

50:01number to keep going down each each

50:03year. Um and we can show that the the

50:05safe city that

50:07uh we have become and that we'll

50:08continue to be in the future.

50:11Uh

50:12person shot, um you know, that that

50:15number is always the

50:17the violent number that shows more of

50:19the more of

50:20uh

50:20some of the incidents that are that are

50:22out there, but still

50:24uh that number is is down. The the

50:26fatals is is up in comparison January to

50:28September by by four there, but the

50:30overall person shot

50:32um is is down, but a number that we're

50:34going to continue to push forward on and

50:36uh put our heart and souls into the this

50:38investigation for our city and then for

50:39the citizens.

50:42There's the person shot map. It shows uh

50:45service area in the ward where these

50:47incidents are both occurring, both fatal

50:48and non-fatal.

50:51Uh homicide numbers this year at 14.

50:55Once again, the goal is to always keep

50:57getting that number down. We have seen

50:58it come down since

51:00the historic numbers of 2020 and uh peak

51:03of 2000 or another peak of 2022, but

51:06they're

51:07um get that number as low as possible is

51:09always the goal.

51:10Um this is the one where we say

51:13each name, each person has a story, they

51:15have a family member um that it doesn't

51:17take much for to be in this profession

51:19for you to

51:20um throw yourself into the um

51:23position of some of the loved ones that

51:24have lost some of the names on this

51:26um on this sheet here today. Um and our

51:29heart always goes out to to them. Um

51:32that's a number we take uh we take

51:34seriously and want to continue to make

51:36an impact on

51:38uh making our city the safest it could

51:39be.

51:41Uh homicide rates, clearance rate,

51:43national average is still at 55% and we

51:46are still um trending well above that.

51:49Uh so far this year, 12 out of 14

51:52homicides uh cleared by arrest. Uh

51:55I'm told by our detective unit that

51:57number is

51:59uh most likely going to be at least 13,

52:01um you know, soon and maybe 14. I'd love

52:03to see 100% because I think that's one

52:06of the best things that we can

52:07um offer our city when you can say when

52:09we have these violent crimes that

52:11there's accountability. Uh and I think

52:13that helps keep our city safe.

52:15When those know when you commit a crime

52:17of that nature um that there's

52:18accountability. Um

52:20so I think it it speaks to the work of

52:22our detective unit and the hard work

52:23that they do, countless hours. So

52:26Uh

52:2720 recorded uh fatal overdoses

52:30year-to-date and 29 illegally possessed

52:35uh guns through September recovered off

52:37the street.

52:40This portion uh something new, but what

52:42I've been doing if it's just kind of

52:43acknowledging the the work of our men

52:45and women.

52:46And this year at the CPAM conference,

52:48Crime Prevention Association of

52:49Michigan, our Community Engagement Unit

52:52uh received uh this award uh for 2026.

52:56The CPAM awards are presented annually

52:58to honor its members and people who have

53:00demonstrated an outstanding contribution

53:02to the citizens of Michigan in the field

53:05of crime prevention and community

53:07engagement. And you'll hear from Captain

53:10Butler here later for the training unit

53:13presentation, but

53:14he oversees this unit and it's a

53:17unit that puts puts their pride and

53:20honor into this into this work. It's

53:23where we have our community officers

53:24house currently currently. And the work

53:27that we've we've done with them and the

53:28feedback we're hearing from the

53:30community on that unit, which I just

53:32heard. I went to a breakfast this

53:34morning at the

53:35the Chamber of Commerce and two people

53:37approached me about our community

53:39officers and the work they're doing and

53:40the connection they're making, which

53:42makes me proud both the organization and

53:45the city I work for.

53:49This is a couple

53:51messages that I want you guys to see

53:53some of the good work that goes out

53:55there. This is from a lifelong

53:57long-time Heartside resident.

53:59We saw two officers walking the beat.

54:01They were cordially interacting with

54:03with folks. The foot patrols and

54:04increased presence at the park have made

54:06a huge difference in the quality of life

54:08for all Heartside residents. Thanks for

54:10your leadership and thanks to your team.

54:13And this one's an audio, right Matt? If

54:15I click it forward it should play.

54:19Or not.

54:23Let's see.

54:26>> I don't think so.

54:27>> No. All right, let's go back. I'll just

54:28read it. But this is from the No Kings

54:30rally and I think some of the

54:32misconception is that

54:34some of our contact at these rallies is

54:36all abrasive or or negative and this is

54:38just from a attendee that said, "I just

54:40wanted to say

54:41that I was at the rally for No Kings

54:44vote. I understood and saw some people

54:46being very rude to GRPD officers and I'm

54:48ashamed that that happened. I thought

54:50the police officers did an exemplary job

54:53of being out there and watching

54:54everybody and keeping everybody safe.

54:57Sorry that some people had to ruin it

54:59for the most of us." And as a deputy

55:01chief overseeing one of these, I believe

55:02it was last year,

55:04there was a similar comment that came

55:06into the department of thanking us for

55:08being out there

55:10Uh and definitely making people feel

55:11safe. It's a balance when we work these

55:14events of not

55:16being the show or or for the those that

55:19potential agitators and letting people

55:21have their first amendment right. So

55:23it's always a balance. And then I'll

55:25just share a couple other incidents that

55:27I go to a lot of patrol line-ups or

55:28briefings. So I hear some of the the

55:31banter that goes around between the the

55:33men and women that

55:34doesn't rise to the level of them their

55:37supervisor whatever sending a a message

55:39to command or myself about the

55:42about the work that the officers doing

55:44the the the humanity type work. And one

55:47of them was an incident, you know, we

55:48had the suspicious package downtown

55:51where we had to cord off the area and

55:52make sure it was safe. And I think we

55:55gave the shelter in place to some of the

55:56businesses and things like that. And I

55:59was talking to one of the supervisors.

56:00So this is after the fact. It was

56:01basically

56:03there were some I don't know what

56:04business it was, but there were some

56:05kids that were in a business that were

56:07sheltering place with a family. And he

56:09was just expressing how one of the

56:11officers was playing paper, rock,

56:12scissors through the window

56:14just to kind of you know, just kind of

56:16keep calm and and and let them know that

56:19hey we've you know, everything's going

56:20to be okay. And it's just that that

56:22light-hearted moment that I think is

56:23important to share that that I've seen

56:25throughout my my career. And the last

56:28one is just a an incident they were

56:29talking about where

56:31it was one of the tough ones. It's a CPS

56:33call where you see the conditions in the

56:35house

56:36and the that the kids are the young kids

56:38are living in and it's just

56:40unfortunate. You know, it's lack of food

56:43in the home and and furniture and all

56:44this and it was

56:46the house was

56:47in poor condition and one of the

56:49supervisors stated how he went upstairs

56:51to find one of the officers, you know,

56:53sitting on his butt on the floor of a

56:55bedroom of one of the children and just

56:57playing, you know, some stupid little

56:58game with them. You know, and I thought

57:00it was just a show

57:01that our men went and tried to go out

57:03there and try to make an impact and they

57:04are touched by all these different

57:06situations whether this names these 14

57:09names

57:11uh that lost their lives this year, or

57:12it's a simple event like uh CPS or

57:15trying to

57:16um call him somebody when you have a

57:19uh you know, a potential bomb, you know,

57:21in the downtown area. So, just to go to

57:23show the hard work uh that they're

57:25doing.

57:27And lastly, I will mention

57:29um we were um sent a draft ordinance

57:34from the ACLU regarding um

57:37safety and dignity for all.

57:39Uh I have received that, and there are

57:41some concerns um with it that we just I

57:44want to make sure that I run uh by the

57:46city manager and also the city attorney,

57:48cuz there's some legal

57:50uh potential legal issues there, but

57:52it's something that we take uh very

57:54serious. And

57:56uh I know utilizing OPA's uh independent

57:59review of of in relation to ALPRs, uh I

58:04think is an important that we city

58:06manager place that under the

58:08surveillance policy. I think that's a

58:09great step forward, and

58:11um and just continuing to through that

58:14process while we I know the review is

58:17I'm sorry, the expiration of that flock

58:20contract or the ALPR is is in the

58:23summer, but it's just something that we

58:25want to be able to look at that

58:25document, and I think the ACLU deserves

58:28a very well-thought-out detailed

58:30response from us. So, I definitely don't

58:32want to rush that, and I think they

58:34deserve

58:35um to hear directly from from me and us

58:37as a department before I elaborate too

58:39much, you know, on that. So, but that's

58:42that's my presentation. Do we have any

58:44any questions before I turn it over to

58:47Captain Butler?

58:49>> I'll just I'll just lean in a little

58:50bit, Chief. Um my last ride-along,

58:54um one of the one of the calls was to a

58:57a very likely suicide by an elderly

58:59lady, and her daughter was there, and

59:01you know, your officers were

59:04not just professional and calm, but they

59:07were they were compassionate. I mean,

59:09they were entirely appropriate to the

59:11moment, and you know, that's that's one

59:13of those rough the you know, the

59:15daughter was maybe 50 and the the woman

59:17who had ended her life was I think 83

59:19and you know, your officers were

59:22entirely appropriate, sensitive,

59:25you know, attuned to the

59:27to the reality of that situation. So, I

59:29appreciated all of their

59:31you know, their being in the moment. So.

59:33>> Yeah, I appreciate that and that's the

59:34expectation so I'm

59:35proud to hear that.

59:37>> Commissioner Coller.

59:38>> Thank you, Mayor and thank you, Chief. I

59:39think I'm I'm continued

59:42I'm very thankful to keep getting some

59:44of these stories at the end. I think

59:46storytelling is really powerful and I'm

59:48hoping that it's helping the public uh

59:50get a more well-rounded picture of what

59:52public safety looks like and what our

59:54relationship I think it's an ongoing

59:57relationship to the police department uh

1:00:00and the community. So, thank you for

1:00:01that. Uh you mentioned a little bit

1:00:03about the ACLU ordinance. I've also got

1:00:06a few constituents asking to have

1:00:08commissioners sort of end that contract

1:00:11before June of next year when it's up.

1:00:14If you could just talk about what that

1:00:16may mean and what the implications of

1:00:18something like that decision cuz we have

1:00:20multiple contracts, right? So, uh for

1:00:22your department specifically, what would

1:00:25some of the implications or what would

1:00:27that mean for you?

1:00:29>> Well, and I definitely appreciate you

1:00:31know, the it's a balance, right? Of

1:00:32those that want to want their privacy

1:00:34and also the evaluating on this this

1:00:38tool, this investigative tool. So, I

1:00:40would caution against just any knee-jerk

1:00:43reaction in a sense that we make a

1:00:44decision that's more emotional than

1:00:46being able to sit down at the table and

1:00:47evaluate you know, as a city like what

1:00:50do we want to see? What type of tools do

1:00:52we want our police department to have? I

1:00:54think having that tool uh with

1:00:56parameters set in in in place which

1:00:59first step with having it under the

1:01:00surveillance policy and if there's other

1:01:01measures uh that

1:01:04would help, you know, I I think what we

1:01:07have uh

1:01:08uh we've earned a trust with the other

1:01:10piece of equipment with the drones that

1:01:11you've heard me

1:01:13me or myself or DC Maycroft reference

1:01:15that uh

1:01:16but I understand that communication

1:01:18piece of that trust piece comes through

1:01:20with time.

1:01:21I'm trying to show that we'll be

1:01:23accountable to the to the use and just

1:01:24be able to

1:01:25show the

1:01:27the benefits of it and the value of it

1:01:29and I like I said before I want the best

1:01:32tools that help us do our job

1:01:35more efficiently because more

1:01:36efficiently means they're freed up to go

1:01:39do other things. We have a a growing

1:01:41calls

1:01:42We're up to 312 calls

1:01:45a day now and two couple years ago was

1:01:47in the 270s I believe 275. So I want to

1:01:50be able to sure make sure we have the

1:01:51best technology with respect to people's

1:01:54privacy.

1:01:54>> Yeah.

1:01:55>> At this stage I think our city deserves

1:01:57it.

1:01:58>> Yeah, I love the word balance. I think

1:01:59that's just in our personal lives and

1:02:01certainly in this aspect. With in place

1:02:04and the interesting thing is am I

1:02:06correct in saying that they are ALPRs in

1:02:08the cruisers?

1:02:09>> Correct.

1:02:10>> challenge I'm not hearing that and maybe

1:02:11the public isn't familiar with that but

1:02:14that's been an ongoing tool that

1:02:16officers have used and it seems as

1:02:18though the sort of strife or the sort of

1:02:21rub is Flock specifically. So even if

1:02:24you were to are those things separate?

1:02:28Is that a different contract or a

1:02:30different

1:02:32organization or business that does the

1:02:34in-cruiser vehicle ALPR?

1:02:36>> Yeah we've had the ALPRs in the cruiser

1:02:39since 2012 right? And but we decided and

1:02:42I've seen why the city manager felt best

1:02:44to put it on the surveillance policy cuz

1:02:46the technology has changed right? Now

1:02:48it's

1:02:49they're affixed in the community and

1:02:50they're on a pole and they're

1:02:53they're storing data for the for the 30

1:02:55days. So that's different. Yes the the

1:02:57Flock cameras that we we have there's we

1:02:59have a total of 30 of them. So that's

1:03:01different from the ones that are in the

1:03:02car but yes that's a

1:03:04that's a very valuable tool that has

1:03:06been in our cruisers for a long time.

1:03:08>> Yeah so when we talk about things like

1:03:09the

1:03:10ACLU ordinance and and people you know I

1:03:14just want to have the full picture and

1:03:16so I really appreciate that and then I

1:03:18think we are going to hopefully discuss

1:03:20even more implications for the city at

1:03:23our workshop on the 12th next month. But

1:03:26of course I'm also concerned on hearing

1:03:28what financial implications that may

1:03:30mean and of course we want to continue

1:03:33to have

1:03:34tools for our department but once again

1:03:38the resounding feedback from community

1:03:40is they do not want flock. So I'm really

1:03:43looking forward to continue this

1:03:44conversation and deeply appreciate your

1:03:46transparency and feedback on this. Thank

1:03:49you.

1:03:49>> I appreciate the feedback. I guess the

1:03:51only thing I would say that is to make

1:03:52sure that we're we're getting all the

1:03:54feedback from from all the community to

1:03:56make sure that we we

1:03:59have a have a good gauge on on

1:04:01community's feelings on it.

1:04:03>> Yeah.

1:04:03>> And just briefly we don't want to

1:04:05mischaracterize

1:04:06the ACLU's work product either because

1:04:10they very clearly flagged that that was

1:04:12a draft which is sort of a starting

1:04:13point for a conversation.

1:04:15And also even to call it an ordinance is

1:04:17the wrong word cuz they don't make

1:04:18ordinances. City Commission makes

1:04:19ordinances.

1:04:21But

1:04:22yes there's a there's a it's quite

1:04:24appropriate and it always will be to

1:04:25have community conversations about you

1:04:27know how we do public safety,

1:04:30how we do

1:04:31uh

1:04:32uh our our welcoming, how we make our

1:04:35city a welcoming city, how we do how we

1:04:39uh you know keep our law enforcement

1:04:41with having integrity and separated from

1:04:43federal agencies and all of those things

1:04:45are really important ongoing

1:04:47conversations but

1:04:48um but they don't stop with uh

1:04:52they don't stop with a a draft memo

1:04:54being circulated.

1:04:55>> [laughter]

1:04:56>> I know that wasn't the intention.

1:04:58>> Yeah. Yeah. Thanks.

1:05:00Uh Commissioner Nsassie.

1:05:02>> Thank you. Thanks for the presentation

1:05:04Chief. I wanted to call out um I don't

1:05:07know what he title he called it out but

1:05:09um about seeing people in action. You

1:05:11were seen in action

1:05:13at the NICA Neighborhood Association.

1:05:15>> You were like I always remember me you

1:05:17and Commissioner Nsassie.

1:05:18>> yes yes.

1:05:18>> He's like I'm going to too many things,

1:05:20but

1:05:21um and there was a question around There

1:05:23was a question around particularly

1:05:25around

1:05:26um

1:05:27our work to respond to the ICE uh the

1:05:30DHS building. And what does that look

1:05:32like and why do we Why are we showing up

1:05:35there? And um I saw you talk to this

1:05:37person who was really frustrated and and

1:05:39scared and hurt. And I think that's what

1:05:40a lot of people are experiencing.

1:05:42And

1:05:43uh by the end of it I saw him shake your

1:05:45hand and you talked very openly about

1:05:48why you feel it is best for you and the

1:05:51department to respond because you all

1:05:53are trained in the de-escalation. You

1:05:55all have a number of you know a lot more

1:05:58training as it relates to how to respond

1:06:00to a situation

1:06:02um than our federal government, at least

1:06:04in my opinion. I don't know if that's

1:06:06what you I you were talking more about

1:06:07your department and your ability versus

1:06:09comparing it, but I'm I'm going to make

1:06:10that comparison.

1:06:11>> Yeah.

1:06:12>> And so I think that I I want to put that

1:06:14out there, too, even though you know

1:06:16somewhat I think in the in the the

1:06:18language around I'll just say um changes

1:06:21that we that we draft received from

1:06:23ACLU. So I wanted to point that out cuz

1:06:25I saw that in action and then I wanted

1:06:27to highlight that again because I think

1:06:29that public safety system we want that

1:06:32to have that reduction of harm as much

1:06:34as we can.

1:06:36I also want to share, you know, uh

1:06:38uh Mayor, you said, you know, we're the

1:06:39ones who create the ordinances and

1:06:40wanted to give a little history lesson

1:06:42back in 2022

1:06:4420 was 2021 at the end of or no, at the

1:06:46end of '22 into '23 we received from

1:06:50some folks some business leaders um I

1:06:54think Chamber of Commerce, other folks

1:06:56in town who said, "We need a an

1:06:58ordinance. We're going to propose an

1:07:00ordinance to you around these public

1:07:02safety changes and we'd like you to

1:07:03enact it." And I think it was a a last

1:07:05meeting for a couple of our actually

1:07:07three of our colleagues. It was and it

1:07:08was like, "Hey, do this in this last

1:07:10meeting." And I would say we took the

1:07:12same approach to that. One, we're going

1:07:14to be the ones who write the ordinance.

1:07:15Two, we want to hear the concerns, the

1:07:17frustration. How do we follow up on

1:07:20this? And I think we got to a point. It

1:07:22wasn't that next meeting.

1:07:24>> [snorts]

1:07:24>> Um and it was a 5-2 vote, but we were

1:07:26able to get to what were the concerns

1:07:28and how to also protect individual's

1:07:30rights. And so,

1:07:32that was It seems like a long time ago,

1:07:34but it wasn't that long ago. And so, I

1:07:35feel like the approach, at least that's

1:07:37the approach I'd like to take in this

1:07:39scenario. I want to respond to people. I

1:07:40want to hear people's concerns.

1:07:43Um you know, thanks Commissioner for

1:07:44talking about in-vehicle ALPRs that have

1:07:48existed and those were the ones, you

1:07:50know, that originally were the

1:07:51grandfathered Well, we didn't have the

1:07:52surveillance policy, so that's why they

1:07:54existed. Um you know, I think when I

1:07:57hear all those are the concerns that I

1:07:59have and we have a tool that's sort of

1:08:00been being utilized. And so, I have said

1:08:02that to some of my constituents who have

1:08:04said

1:08:05using the word all as it related to

1:08:07automatic license plate readers cuz I

1:08:09have concerns about how that would

1:08:10impact the department as a whole.

1:08:12Um and I also hold deep concerned about

1:08:16technology and technology that has grown

1:08:18quickly. Appreciated Flock coming in.

1:08:20I have a lot of belief and

1:08:23um

1:08:25and appreciation for this department and

1:08:28for everybody that doesn't come up here

1:08:29and sit in these chairs.

1:08:31And I know we have built the appropriate

1:08:34systems and mechanisms. I don't have a

1:08:36lot of faith in how the federal

1:08:37government is using utilizing our data

1:08:39right now and that's the thing that is

1:08:40the most scary for me.

1:08:42Um so, I'm going to spend this time as

1:08:44we get into these conversations, city

1:08:46manager, about budget and and policy

1:08:49pieces to really dig into that Flock um

1:08:54What is it called? The the the portal?

1:08:56The the the open data that now exists.

1:08:59>> Transparency.

1:08:59>> To try to Transparency. Thank you.

1:09:01Transparency portal. To really try to

1:09:03understand it cuz that's the question

1:09:04that I have in my head is I have deep

1:09:07concerns about the actions of the

1:09:09federal government.

1:09:12And how do I square that with the deep

1:09:15understanding, knowledge, respect that I

1:09:17have for the department. And then how

1:09:20can I best exert, you know, in this

1:09:22changing federal landscape about, you

1:09:25know, 200,000 young people have been

1:09:27separated from their families.

1:09:30200,000 young people, people as young as

1:09:332 years old and 3 years old.

1:09:36And

1:09:37so, you know, you kind of hold that in

1:09:39this this balance. And so,

1:09:41I am um

1:09:44I'm fully comfortable with the timeline

1:09:45that we have, city manager, of like

1:09:47reviewing this, sharing this, how you've

1:09:49squared up the the contracts.

1:09:52And just some of the feedback that I

1:09:53heard, you know, when um

1:09:55uh Deputy Chief Maycroft gave that

1:09:57presentation. So, I just wanted to share

1:09:59that. You were very open and forthcoming

1:10:01about that, and so I wanted to share

1:10:02with you what was on my mind as it

1:10:04relates to that, and as we go close up

1:10:06this year and get ready to go into next

1:10:08year.

1:10:09>> No, and I think I'll I'll just add to

1:10:10that real quick what you I obviously the

1:10:12community event we were at together, and

1:10:14um you know, I sought that gentleman out

1:10:16afterwards because, uh you know, he had

1:10:17some very uh tough questions and

1:10:19whatnot. I've always said,

1:10:21uh I appreciate the tough questions, cuz

1:10:22that's, you know, usually those are

1:10:24conversations where if there's going to

1:10:25be some growth, that's where it's going

1:10:26to happen. And uh he appreciated the the

1:10:30one-on-one time afterwards, and I think

1:10:32what really resonated with him is when I

1:10:34said,

1:10:35you know, we're going to always respond

1:10:36to uh a call of a crime occurring, no

1:10:39matter who you are. That's that's our

1:10:40job. That's what we we took the oath to

1:10:42do. And when he explained the the

1:10:45incident with uh a few of the ICE

1:10:47officers with that had their

1:10:49uh MK-9, which is the um

1:10:52you know, the Mace, uh and the mask on,

1:10:54and that things were about to

1:10:56uh get out of hand, and and GRPD pulled

1:10:59up, and

1:11:01he used the words assist, but my words

1:11:05were, we de-escalated that situation,

1:11:07right? No, nothing had to be used. And I

1:11:09said, if any department is going to

1:11:12respond, I want our department

1:11:14responding, cuz I know how they're

1:11:15trained, I know what the the expectation

1:11:16of is of our department, uh and how we

1:11:19handle these things. And when you're

1:11:21going to be baited with certain language

1:11:23that I was just baited a couple weeks

1:11:25ago at a city commission meeting with

1:11:26some of the things that were said to me

1:11:28that you don't take the bait. You stay

1:11:30professional in this uniform and if if

1:11:33they're going to go to those lengths

1:11:34with with some of the language and and

1:11:36call you then that's them, not us. And

1:11:38if you take the bait, we have an

1:11:39accountability system for that and we'll

1:11:40address it

1:11:42and get you back back, you know, pointed

1:11:44in the right direction. But no, thank

1:11:46you for that. Thanks for the

1:11:46acknowledgement, but yes,

1:11:48have full faith in our department when

1:11:49we handle those situations

1:11:51professionally.

1:11:54Thanks, Chief. Welcome.

1:11:57All right.

1:11:58>> Mayor

1:12:00Let me yeah, also thank the chief for

1:12:03his candor and

1:12:05you know, being very open and frank with

1:12:09with the update on the department. Just

1:12:10a question for this committee because

1:12:12the department has

1:12:14worked very hard on the next

1:12:16presentation and it's pretty important.

1:12:18Where we talk about the training and the

1:12:19escalation and we have 25 minutes. I

1:12:22want to um

1:12:23make sure that

1:12:25uh we are comfortable

1:12:28with that amount of time on this

1:12:29important topic. And so

1:12:32>> How long do you need?

1:12:35We'd have to ask Captain Butler here.

1:12:37>> [laughter]

1:12:38>> Okay. All right, good.

1:12:40Come on up or come on down. I never did

1:12:43the prices right.

1:12:49Uh and I just want to introduce him real

1:12:50quick. Obviously, Captain Butler as you

1:12:52see here, he's been with our

1:12:5425 years law enforcement

1:12:56law enforcement experience, 20 with us.

1:12:59Very impressive resume with just some of

1:13:01the things that are listed

1:13:03here from Michigan State Police firearms

1:13:05instructor, National Tactical

1:13:06Association, Officers Association,

1:13:08active violence instructor, FBI crisis

1:13:10negotiator training, human factor

1:13:12research group, defensive tactics

1:13:14instructor, force science de-escalation

1:13:16instructor, effective fitness combatives

1:13:19level two instructor. That's our EFC

1:13:21grappling type stuff, less strikes,

1:13:24FEMA field force and command planning

1:13:25for executives and Cooper Institute law

1:13:27enforcement fitness specialist. We lost

1:13:29a lot of institutional knowledge when

1:13:31Captain Seibert retired, but

1:13:34gives me confidence with this guy taking

1:13:36over

1:13:37in his shoes. His work ethic is

1:13:39exceptional

1:13:40and he's got a great presentation plan

1:13:42for you today and we'll have any

1:13:43questions afterwards, let us know. All

1:13:45right.

1:13:46Captain Butler.

1:13:50>> Good afternoon.

1:13:51That was a better introduction than I

1:13:53would have gave myself, but

1:13:55I am Captain Butler.

1:13:57I'm in charge of the training unit and

1:13:59the community engagement unit as well.

1:14:01Um

1:14:02So, basically what I want to do is

1:14:03training has been a culture at Grand

1:14:05Rapids Police Department. 25 years of

1:14:07law enforcement. I've trained all over

1:14:09the country. I've worked at two other

1:14:10agencies before I was employed here as

1:14:12well and there are regions and cities

1:14:15that aren't as fortunate to have the

1:14:17opportunities that we have. Um and when

1:14:19I first started at Grand Rapids having

1:14:21come from a couple of agencies who were

1:14:23doing the bare minimum and I saw the

1:14:25outcome outcome of some of that. The

1:14:27professionalism and the extra training

1:14:29that we receive here is really second to

1:14:31none regionally and with definitely

1:14:33within the state and regionally. So,

1:14:35training's always been a big part of my

1:14:36my uh

1:14:38career and I took this position hoping

1:14:41to continue that trend. As he mentioned,

1:14:43Captain Seibert did a great job. We're

1:14:44constantly reevaluating how we're doing

1:14:46things.

1:14:47The old adage of that's how we've always

1:14:49done it is not acceptable.

1:14:52Everything changes and what works in one

1:14:53jurisdiction might not work in another

1:14:55based off of what you know, whatever

1:14:58um whatever you're looking at, but if I

1:15:00work in a rural area, I may have to do

1:15:02something very tactically different than

1:15:04you do in an urban area. If I'm by

1:15:06myself versus I have 10 partners to help

1:15:08me, a lack of equipment, uh geography,

1:15:10everything affects training. So, we're

1:15:12constantly reevaluating reevaluating

1:15:14what we're doing

1:15:16um and I wanted to stay part of that.

1:15:24Uh so, just a brief overview of the

1:15:25training unit cuz I'm going to focus

1:15:26mainly on that side. I have a lieutenant

1:15:28who runs a lot of the community

1:15:29engagement unit. I'm sure some of you

1:15:31met Lieutenant Daily. He does a

1:15:32fantastic job in there. Um and with

1:15:35being in charge of two different sides

1:15:36of the house, uh he takes care of a lot

1:15:39of that. Um but my unit on the other

1:15:41side of the house was one captain, uh

1:15:43one sergeant, and five officers

1:15:45who are full instructor cadre, full-time

1:15:48instructor cadre. We also have dozens of

1:15:50officers who are part-time instructors

1:15:52in their their niche, whatever they are

1:15:54an expert in, whether it's emergency

1:15:56vehicle operations, the mental health

1:15:58side of the house, officer wellness,

1:16:00firearms, defensive tactics, but so we

1:16:03have dozens of officers who we send in

1:16:05to get certified in those types of

1:16:06things. But

1:16:08uh the highlights of what we're taking

1:16:09care of on the day-to-day

1:16:11is the use of force review and analysis.

1:16:14Uh that includes the analysis for

1:16:16internal affairs if there's a complaint

1:16:18or if something comes into question

1:16:20whether it was done within training

1:16:21protocols or within policy and

1:16:22procedure, we'll give our analysis on

1:16:25that to help uh CAB at times and

1:16:28internal affairs gauge whether it was

1:16:30done correctly or not. So there's a lot

1:16:32of checks and balances in that. Um we

1:16:35have a

1:16:36use of force review board, and I'll kind

1:16:38of touch on that a little bit later,

1:16:40just kind of how that works. If an

1:16:41officer uses force, immediately they

1:16:42have to call a supervisor to the scene

1:16:44who will take photos, conduct

1:16:46interviews, speak to the officers, as

1:16:49well as speak to any witnesses that may

1:16:50have been in that area uh to get as much

1:16:52information as possible. They will then

1:16:54write a use of force report that goes to

1:16:57a use of force review review board,

1:17:00which is made up of captains

1:17:02many sets of eyes that go on this,

1:17:04including the training unit, before we

1:17:05finally say, "Yes, this was done

1:17:07properly or was not. It was the

1:17:09appropriate action moving forward."

1:17:11Uh return to duty, if you're off for an

1:17:13extended period of time, we bring you

1:17:15back in, do some extra training to make

1:17:17sure that you're still fit for duty

1:17:20uh or just a little bit rusty. Before we

1:17:23send you out there in the community, we

1:17:24want you to be all caught up on your

1:17:26trainings, especially the mandatory

1:17:27ones. Mandatory training, that's what

1:17:29it's required by the state. We go well

1:17:31above it and beyond that.

1:17:33Uh last year, I believe we had 12

1:17:35mandatory training blocks covering

1:17:38various, uh, different topics and those

1:17:40generally take 2 to 3 weeks each. So,

1:17:43pretty much we're training constantly

1:17:44throughout the year. Uh, my instructors

1:17:46are extremely busy, put in a lot of

1:17:47extra hours, uh, to make sure that we're

1:17:49meeting the standard and then going on

1:17:51above and beyond it. We talk about

1:17:53instructor development, send a lot of

1:17:55people to additional trainings,

1:17:56certification courses.

1:17:58Peer support, officer mental health.

1:18:01Uh, in-house recruit training is

1:18:02something that's very unique and I'll

1:18:04talk about that, uh, chronologically a

1:18:06little bit down later on in this

1:18:07presentation, but we do 8 weeks of

1:18:09orientation after you come back from a

1:18:11police academy, which is extremely rare.

1:18:13It's almost like an advanced police

1:18:15academy after you get out the get out of

1:18:16the basic academy cuz we want you doing

1:18:19doing what we have found works best for

1:18:21our agency, not necessarily just what

1:18:23the basic academy taught you. And it

1:18:25gives them confidence when they go out

1:18:27on the road.

1:18:28Uh, civilian trainings, uh, that covers

1:18:31a lot of topics. We've got the Explorers

1:18:33program, Youth Police Academy, uh,

1:18:35Clergy on Patrol, community

1:18:37stakeholders, you know, CAB comes and

1:18:39does their training when they receive

1:18:40they have new, uh, board members. So,

1:18:43and then community or I'm sorry,

1:18:44neighborhood associations, uh, we

1:18:46provide a lot of training and education

1:18:49and Chief touched on it earlier. That

1:18:51starts discussion. Uh, we can educate

1:18:54each other both sides of the table. Um,

1:18:56we have some great conversations, little

1:18:59bit better understanding of perspective,

1:19:01um, and it that's really a big part of

1:19:03what we do up there.

1:19:05Supplemental training, if we do find

1:19:07something doesn't meet the level of

1:19:10discipline, but also doesn't meet our

1:19:12standard, we hold supplemental

1:19:14trainings, we'll bring that officer back

1:19:15in, uh, whatever the topic was that we

1:19:18found they weren't acting appropriately

1:19:20and we'll we'll retrain them, make sure

1:19:22that they understand what is expected of

1:19:24them and, uh, before we send them back

1:19:26out.

1:19:27And then officer involved shooting

1:19:28debriefs, um,

1:19:30make sure that we learn as much from all

1:19:32those as we can, see what we're doing

1:19:34what we've done well or what could have

1:19:35been done better. Um, we hold those

1:19:37debriefs after each of those.

1:19:41This is the total number of training

1:19:43hours in 2025.

1:19:45We use 2025 because 2026 we're still

1:19:48working on finishing out the calendar

1:19:49year.

1:19:50Uh, but we have 35,288

1:19:52training hours last year.

1:19:549,900 for miscellaneous other training

1:19:56opportunities. This is just going to

1:19:58break down. I won't read them each to

1:19:59you, but this does not include, um,

1:20:02trainings at specialized units. They

1:20:04have their own

1:20:05continued police education funds where

1:20:07they are also hosting and sending people

1:20:09to other trainings. This is just the

1:20:10training hours that came through our

1:20:12office.

1:20:15But chronologically, we start at the

1:20:17police academy. Obviously, we've used

1:20:19Grand Valley State University and Grand

1:20:21Rapids Community College.

1:20:23Uh, they get nearly 800 hours of

1:20:24training during a 17-week period and

1:20:26these are

1:20:27not all of the topics, but many of the

1:20:29topics. If you want to read through

1:20:30those that are covered, it's all

1:20:32inclusive, um, for the most part,

1:20:35touching [snorts] on all aspects of what

1:20:37it takes to make it become a good police

1:20:38officer, whether it's

1:20:40not just the hard skills, but

1:20:41interpersonal communications, uh,

1:20:43de-escalation, uh, constitutional law,

1:20:46uh, victims' rights, juvenile offender

1:20:49and families and how we should be

1:20:51appropriately, you know, working with

1:20:52those folks. So, this is the 17-week

1:20:55academy before you come back and do our

1:20:578-week orientation.

1:21:00This is where we touch on what's really

1:21:02works for us and what's really important

1:21:03for us and our city as well. Um, if

1:21:06talk about our policies,

1:21:08uh, our CALEA accreditation and why

1:21:10that's important to us, meeting the

1:21:11higher standard than the state minimum

1:21:14required. Um, you know, get them

1:21:16confident with geography and that we do

1:21:18cover,

1:21:19uh,

1:21:20wellness, career survival, um,

1:21:23and things of that nature. Mental

1:21:25health, co-response team, you know, they

1:21:27come in and do a presentation, um, cuz

1:21:29they're out there working with us every

1:21:30day as well.

1:21:33So, once you get through the 8 weeks,

1:21:34you're already through 25 weeks of

1:21:36training and now you're finally hitting

1:21:38the road. Uh, Uh, but after you hit the

1:21:40street, there's another six steps before

1:21:43we're entrusting you as a full-on

1:21:44non-probationer police officer.

1:21:47Uh, 16 weeks where they're actually

1:21:48riding with a training officer.

1:21:50Um, the first 4 weeks is kind of a

1:21:52crawl, walk, run set up for the program.

1:21:55So, we're only asking them to do 10 to

1:21:5625%

1:21:58of the workload, so we're not

1:21:59overwhelming them.

1:22:01Um, you know, we have And if you read

1:22:04below, those are the 10

1:22:05uh, assessment categories that they're

1:22:08judged on at each and every contact and

1:22:10call that they go on. So, anywhere from

1:22:12interpersonal command communications to

1:22:15criminal statutes, ordinances,

1:22:17information, case building, and a lot of

1:22:19what we're looking at also

1:22:21is not It's not its own assessment

1:22:24category, but all of it's based off of

1:22:26making good sound decisions.

1:22:28Um, step two, you'll go to another

1:22:30officer

1:22:31>> [snorts]

1:22:31>> um, and you'll work your way up to about

1:22:3355% of the workload. Step three, 55 to

1:22:3695, and then step four is final 4 weeks,

1:22:39you go back to your original training

1:22:41officer, so they can kind of gauge

1:22:43growth and where you've come from where

1:22:45you're where you're at right now from

1:22:46where you started. We do do extensions.

1:22:48Everybody learns at different paces.

1:22:50Everybody learns differently. We try to

1:22:52put match personalities with with the

1:22:55training officer and the officer that

1:22:56uh, the train FTO.

1:22:58So, we just want to reassure when we put

1:23:01them with that last training officer

1:23:02that they've seen the expected amount of

1:23:03growth within that 16-week period.

1:23:06Final or step five, it's you're by

1:23:09yourself solo patrol, but you have to

1:23:11meet with a sergeant every day and they

1:23:12do an evaluation of you. And then step

1:23:14six is just the remainder of your pro-

1:23:16probation period. You're still an

1:23:17at-will employee, so we do check-in

1:23:19rides and just make sure

1:23:21we're progressing the way we should.

1:23:23So, that's how the first year goes.

1:23:25We talked about mandatory trainings and

1:23:27the topics

1:23:29vary from year to year, um, but there

1:23:31are a lot of requirements through the

1:23:33state of Michigan that things we have to

1:23:35do.

1:23:35Um, so this kind of broke down our

1:23:37calendar year last year on what we were

1:23:40training each month.

1:23:41Um, like I said, 2 to 3 weeks for each

1:23:43of these.

1:23:44You know, and like a uh we'll mix up

1:23:47DALE is new to us. The uh the the

1:23:50dangerous assessment for law

1:23:51enforcement. So, that was a new pro you

1:23:53know, that was new put into place a

1:23:55couple years ago. So, we wanted to

1:23:56revisit that.

1:23:58You don't want to have people forgetting

1:23:59or oversee some some trends and

1:24:01mistakes. So, it's like, "Okay, let's

1:24:02revisit that. Make sure we're following

1:24:04this the way we should be."

1:24:08Uh actually going back to this slide.

1:24:10We're also fortunate enough that we have

1:24:13Vector Solutions and PowerDMS. So, we

1:24:16can push out

1:24:17>> [snorts]

1:24:18>> we we push out six to eight topics a

1:24:20year. Uh next year's going to be pretty

1:24:22heavy on pushing some of these topics

1:24:23out. Um recently we had uh mental health

1:24:27piece

1:24:29cultural competency, things of that

1:24:31nature. Things that

1:24:33we can easily send out to them give them

1:24:35a timeline and then they pass a you

1:24:38know, a a written test or I'm sorry, you

1:24:40know, a test after the training so that

1:24:42we know they were actually engaged in

1:24:43the course and and met the standard for

1:24:47for passing that course. So, that's a

1:24:49nice unique tool cuz logistically

1:24:51bringing everybody together more than 12

1:24:53times a year can be difficult.

1:24:57We're very fortunate to have the

1:24:58Michigan

1:24:59Michigan Commission on Law Enforcement

1:25:01Standards CPE pilot program, which is no

1:25:04longer a pilot program. It's

1:25:06>> [snorts]

1:25:06>> they put it into effect full-time this

1:25:08year. But it it allows a thousand

1:25:11dollars for each officer for continued

1:25:12police education. Um they have eight

1:25:16hours that are commis commission

1:25:18designated where they we we have to do

1:25:20those ones, but then they give us 24

1:25:22hours of electives. So, that's something

1:25:25that is a training unit as a agency

1:25:27input from the chief's office which one

1:25:30of these do we think we need? Which one

1:25:31of these do we think would help with

1:25:33some either concerns we're having,

1:25:35concerns we're hearing from community.

1:25:37What can we look at? How can we better

1:25:39use this money? It can be used for

1:25:41supplies if they're consumables.

1:25:43Excellent program that's made us very

1:25:45fortunate.

1:25:48These are just some of the hosted like I

1:25:51said, regionally

1:25:53we're well known for our training and

1:25:55for our culture of training. So, we do

1:25:57host a lot of outside trainings and

1:25:59bring in other agencies. I just

1:26:02taught one last month. I brought in some

1:26:05consultants, leadership consultants from

1:26:07Charlotte, North Carolina, two retired

1:26:09officers from down there.

1:26:10Kind of had a holistic approach on

1:26:12leadership. Not death by PowerPoint, not

1:26:15writing papers, but let's put 40-lb rock

1:26:18on your back, go walk around a lake, and

1:26:21hit the pillars of what we think makes a

1:26:22good leader. It was a deep dive into who

1:26:24are you, what do you need to do to

1:26:26to lead yourself, what do you need to

1:26:28lead others, what can you do to lead the

1:26:30organization.

1:26:32And people really opened up, were is

1:26:34well received, um, and I think it

1:26:36a lot of times when I was a young

1:26:38officer, it's well, you're the I'm the

1:26:40boss, they got to do what I say do.

1:26:41Well, times change, uh,

1:26:44generations change, and everybody

1:26:47operates a little bit differently. So,

1:26:49just kind of saying, hey, well, what's

1:26:51going to change?

1:26:52You

1:26:54or a whole

1:26:5510-year age group of new officer who

1:26:58wasn't raised like you,

1:26:59brain works a little bit different than

1:27:01you. So, what's going to change? Well,

1:27:02we have to evaluate what we're doing to

1:27:04reach these these young new officers.

1:27:06So, it was a it was a excellent program

1:27:09that we're hope to continue having all

1:27:12of our sergeants run through.

1:27:15That's just, like I said, part of what a

1:27:17lot of what we do is that use of force

1:27:19review.

1:27:20Um, this is where I was going to touch

1:27:22on

1:27:23the blue teams and the uni- use of force

1:27:26review or committee, use of force review

1:27:28board. Um, just kind of to reiterate,

1:27:31we are holding ourselves accountable. I

1:27:33mean, there's

1:27:34a quite five-step process before it

1:27:37makes it to the training unit to say,

1:27:38did they do this right? A lot of our

1:27:40internal affairs

1:27:42complaints come from us because we see

1:27:43video every day

1:27:45and uh, didn't like this, this could

1:27:47have been done better. You know, I'm not

1:27:48sure this is this is justified. We don't

1:27:51wait for a complaint to come in. We're

1:27:52doing that amongst ourselves and quite

1:27:55regularly. It leads to supplemental

1:27:57training or some some sort of

1:27:59discipline.

1:28:02Just a broad stroke of what we're doing

1:28:04up there.

1:28:05Uh if you have any questions.

1:28:08>> Appreciate it. Um first thing I noticed

1:28:09that is if you divide out the hours by

1:28:11how many sworn officers you've got,

1:28:13you're over 100.

1:28:15>> Correct.

1:28:15>> So a lot of training. Yes, sir. Um I

1:28:17appreciate the oversight. Um colleagues?

1:28:22Uh Commissioner Kilgore.

1:28:25Oh, uh Mr. Fine, did you have a

1:28:26>> Yeah, so I would I'd really recommend

1:28:28the mono training that gets done and the

1:28:31variety of it because there are all

1:28:33kinds of situations, you know, that um

1:28:36happen out there and our city is, from

1:28:37my observation anyway downtown, uh

1:28:40attracting a lot more people from out of

1:28:43the area and I've been really trying to

1:28:46watch the

1:28:47flow of traffic, especially out the

1:28:49amphitheater, and I think with one

1:28:52exception, I think there was just one

1:28:53night that was really congested, but

1:28:56somehow you figured out how to get

1:28:57people on their way and I really

1:29:00appreciate that on behalf of the people

1:29:02downtown.

1:29:03>> So thank you. I know it's

1:29:05comments are spread through the whole

1:29:06department and it means, you know, but

1:29:08your training emphasis, I think it's

1:29:10super important for professionalism.

1:29:14>> Thank you.

1:29:14>> Thank you.

1:29:15>> Yeah, I guess if and and I know

1:29:17Commissioner Kilgore, you wanted and and

1:29:18talk and so Jim, but um

1:29:21one of the things I actually that that

1:29:22spurs a thought and that is like

1:29:25I wonder what the next horizon is,

1:29:27whether it's something like customer

1:29:29service training,

1:29:30um because when you're talking about

1:29:32amphitheater traffic, you're talking

1:29:33about a lot of sort of

1:29:35Disneyland or Disney World stuff, right?

1:29:37These aren't people who are active

1:29:39problems, but they can still behave

1:29:42themselves badly. Um I saw a couple

1:29:44individuals who were just, you know,

1:29:45really

1:29:47unhappy that that area was being

1:29:49managed, right? They wanted to do what

1:29:50they wanted to do and there was an

1:29:52officer telling them they couldn't do

1:29:53what they wanted to do, and

1:29:54>> Right.

1:29:54>> Um that's not something you need to I

1:29:56mean, when we talk about de-escalation

1:29:58in your world, you're usually talking

1:29:59about de-escalating something a lot more

1:30:01serious than that. Um but, you know, the

1:30:04the customer service

1:30:06uh sort of

1:30:08one level down from what we might call

1:30:09de-escalation. I wonder if there's

1:30:10opportunities for that. That's just a

1:30:12random thought.

1:30:12>> Big part of our our de-escalation is

1:30:15goes back to basic communication skills

1:30:17as well. Um everybody wants to feel like

1:30:20they have a choice. Everybody wants to

1:30:22know the what's and the why's. These

1:30:23things aren't secrets, so tell them.

1:30:25>> Yep.

1:30:26>> Have that conversation. Maybe they're

1:30:27not seeing something

1:30:29>> Yep.

1:30:29>> that So, they're not aware of why this

1:30:32is happening, but taking the time to

1:30:34recognize they want a little bit of

1:30:36sympathy and empathy. They want to know

1:30:38the what's and the why's, and just

1:30:40teaching people that are our officers,

1:30:42"Hey,

1:30:43be a better communicator. This is their

1:30:45neighborhood. It's not a secret, so let

1:30:47them know what's going on."

1:30:48>> Yeah, I often say I think most of the

1:30:49world's problems are because of not

1:30:51enough communication.

1:30:52>> Right.

1:30:52>> Hardly ever is it too much too much

1:30:54communication.

1:30:55>> Yes, sir.

1:30:56>> Uh Commissioner Coogan.

1:30:57>> Thank you, Mayor. I concur, and I just

1:30:59once again, I think uh this is

1:31:01constantly the committee that I share

1:31:02with people to once again get a bigger,

1:31:05more broad picture, and it's wonderful

1:31:07to see the ongoing professional

1:31:09development. I think that's the best

1:31:11practice and a good sign of any

1:31:12professional that you're continued uh to

1:31:15be really really up to task to stay

1:31:17updated on all of this. Another one that

1:31:19wasn't included uh that the Chief and I

1:31:21uh took part in was the LGBTQ plus

1:31:24training as well.

1:31:25>> Lunch and learn?

1:31:26>> Yeah, that was Yeah, that was a really

1:31:27great lunch and learn, and uh room full

1:31:29of dozens of uh folks on the team and

1:31:32officers. So, that was awesome to see,

1:31:33and also amazing to see the Chief of

1:31:36Police there. That was really cool. And

1:31:37that was actually I think either right

1:31:40as your tenure was starting or a little

1:31:42bit before.

1:31:42>> was my third lunch and learn.

1:31:44>> Yeah, I just thought it was wonderful.

1:31:45So, that was great. Um and then in

1:31:48addition, I wanted to Oh, and then

1:31:50follow-up from that, uh the LGBTQ plus

1:31:52liaison, which is also something that

1:31:54not every department has uh that Grand

1:31:57Rapids has. It's awesome and once again

1:31:59helps a marginalized group and a group

1:32:02that often feels forget about and

1:32:03unseen. That's just how far we're going

1:32:05with that. I got to meet with our

1:32:07liaison Mallory. She is wonderful and we

1:32:10are hopeful to meet with some of our

1:32:12third ward neighborhood associations and

1:32:14I'm hoping that we can do that all over

1:32:16the city so folks know about that

1:32:17resource. So thank you for that. And

1:32:20then on the Dale at last time I asked we

1:32:23didn't have specific feedback on

1:32:27that Dale, correct? Am I getting that

1:32:29right? Dale, we didn't have that with

1:32:31the LGBTQ + community although we know

1:32:33that there's more there's significant

1:32:36challenges with domestic violence in our

1:32:37community. So that's something I'm

1:32:39hoping maybe follow up or feedback on on

1:32:42if there's updates to Dale or if there's

1:32:45specific trainings for different

1:32:47communities within domestic violence for

1:32:49Dale.

1:32:50>> Just so I'm

1:32:51you thought that we didn't do a Dale for

1:32:53that community? Oh, okay.

1:32:55>> I when we first got the presentation

1:32:57which that may have been last year

1:32:59when we received that presentation I was

1:33:02asking specifically are there different

1:33:04questions or different way that you

1:33:06interact with a neighbor who may be a

1:33:08part of the LGBTQ + community and I

1:33:10didn't that wasn't like a different

1:33:12thing. I thought it was sort of everyone

1:33:14got the same Dale.

1:33:15>> it was basically just a broad anyone

1:33:17within an intimate relationship.

1:33:18>> Relationship, yeah. So that's something

1:33:21I wonder if there's even more we can do

1:33:24with that because there's just some

1:33:26there's some nuance there. I think that

1:33:28would be interesting and we know

1:33:29domestic violence across the board is

1:33:31something we want to continue to

1:33:33help in community. So thank you for that

1:33:36and yeah, this was great. Thank you.

1:33:38>> Thank you.

1:33:40Captain Butler, thank you for your

1:33:41thoughtful presentation. You gave some

1:33:43great details and I know we're running

1:33:45out of time. One of the things you

1:33:47didn't pause at on your slides that I

1:33:49think is relevant especially as a

1:33:50resident member of this body as we

1:33:52continue to try and inform and

1:33:55understand the police public relations

1:33:57in our community.

1:33:58>> [snorts]

1:33:59>> You noted in your presentation that 30

1:34:00to 40% of the recruits don't make it to

1:34:03solo patrol.

1:34:04>> Yes, sir.

1:34:05>> And I think as the general public at

1:34:07large is witnessing what feels like at

1:34:09times from what we see out in the media

1:34:12as opportunities for people to become

1:34:14federal officers who are armed

1:34:16on a whim, whether or not that is true

1:34:18at this time, I think it does have a

1:34:21negative impact on how people see public

1:34:23safety.

1:34:24You know, and to further our public to

1:34:25understand that not only is this

1:34:27training happening, but it's also

1:34:30filtering out the people who don't rise

1:34:32to the standards of Grand Rapids PD.

1:34:34That's a really important note so that

1:34:36when they see people out at the No Kings

1:34:38rally, when they see people at Calder

1:34:40Plaza for an event, these are the people

1:34:42who have made the grade, who have gotten

1:34:44the training, and it just needs to be

1:34:46said

1:34:47more blatantly, I think, to the general

1:34:49public at large so that we're we're

1:34:51letting them know that it is the best of

1:34:53your core potential officers that make

1:34:56it to patrol. And I just wanted to thank

1:34:58you for that and point it out from your

1:34:59presentation. Thank you.

1:35:01>> Appreciate that.

1:35:03Just had just had a question a couple

1:35:04questions real quickly.

1:35:05>> Yes.

1:35:05>> Uh

1:35:06can you tell me how frequent are the use

1:35:09of force being reviewed by this

1:35:10particular you know team or what have

1:35:12you that's established?

1:35:15And then secondly, especially as it

1:35:17pertains to there have been some

1:35:18instances where members of the community

1:35:20have you know spoken out against strikes

1:35:22and other things.

1:35:23>> Sure.

1:35:23>> So how often are all those things being

1:35:26you know reviewed as well as uh

1:35:29um

1:35:31if the community can find out more about

1:35:32the numerous trainings, I'm sure that

1:35:34they'd be willing to get involved

1:35:36over and over again cuz this I mean I

1:35:37love the hours. I love to see that. And

1:35:39then finally, is there anything that's

1:35:41being done with this election process

1:35:43that's taking place to safeguard the

1:35:46that that capacity as well?

1:35:47>> So with your first question, every

1:35:49single use of force is reviewed on the

1:35:52on the daily

1:35:53um

1:35:54by starting with the sergeant

1:35:57going to that use of force review board.

1:35:59It has to have a minimum of three people

1:36:02put eyes on that report, review the use

1:36:03of force report before it then comes to

1:36:05my unit. We go back through it again and

1:36:08say,

1:36:09"This was justified and within policy

1:36:11and training protocols." So, it's it's

1:36:12daily. Um and five people will look at

1:36:15that before it's ever

1:36:17approved or deemed

1:36:19justified and within policy.

1:36:21If that that answer that question?

1:36:23>> Yes, so you're saying daily?

1:36:25>> Daily, yeah, absolutely. Every In my

1:36:26office, even people not on the use of

1:36:28force review board, I have somebody

1:36:30dedicated to defensive tactics.

1:36:32They're watching videos and reading

1:36:33reports as well. It's constant.

1:36:37>> And then, sorry, the second question.

1:36:38>> The second second was centered around

1:36:39making sure the community is aware of

1:36:41the numerous opportunities that are

1:36:42available for the training.

1:36:44Um you know, that's open to everybody.

1:36:46And then finally, the capacity of is

1:36:48there any steps being taken to try to

1:36:51protect the electoral capacity of what's

1:36:53transpiring over the next week.

1:36:54>> Yeah. So, community engagement would

1:36:57offer those opportunities to come see

1:36:58our use of force. We're and we're very

1:37:00open to that because like I said,

1:37:02that education piece I think is is huge.

1:37:06Um

1:37:07I don't know what I don't know and you

1:37:08know, nobody else knows what they don't

1:37:10know. Um and everybody's perspective is

1:37:11a little different. So, yeah, I think to

1:37:13bridge some of that misunderstanding,

1:37:15that education piece is is huge. Um as

1:37:18far as the el-

1:37:19Yes, sir.

1:37:20>> Expert coming.

1:37:23>> [laughter]

1:37:24>> I was I was zoning in watching what was

1:37:26going on election-wise around the city.

1:37:27Um

1:37:29So,

1:37:30I was wondering why you're making eyes

1:37:31at me, Mark. Thanks.

1:37:33Um

1:37:34>> [laughter]

1:37:35>> So,

1:37:36Yeah, so obviously with elections, we're

1:37:38actually a week into elections already.

1:37:40So, we've been voting here in Grand

1:37:42Rapids well with absentee ballots for

1:37:44the last 40, you know, 30-some days and

1:37:46then early voting for a week with

1:37:47another week to go. Uh so, we've had a a

1:37:50good partnership between emergency

1:37:53management, GRPD, GRFD, um and the

1:37:55attorney's office as we're preparing for

1:37:57elections. We've participated in several

1:37:59table top exercises with the state and

1:38:01other organizations over the last year.

1:38:05Miss Hartman was

1:38:06was at a tabletop when Grand Rapids

1:38:08shows up at a tabletop exercise we bring

1:38:11everybody. And so and we bring in

1:38:13communications has been involved that as

1:38:14well. So that helps our

1:38:16township and other city neighbors who

1:38:18don't bring that but they have law

1:38:19enforcement and fire and emergency

1:38:21management in the room. That's that

1:38:23helps

1:38:24teach all of us and and it's not just

1:38:27the public safety part because public

1:38:28safety is part of it you know if we're

1:38:30going to if something there but it's

1:38:31also medical environmental it's very

1:38:33other things. You know we can have all

1:38:35four seasons you know in one day in

1:38:37November in Michigan and how do we

1:38:38prepare for that? So we we're in a

1:38:40virtual emergency operations center

1:38:43right now through this election time.

1:38:45We'll we'll have a a light in person

1:38:47emergency operations center on election

1:38:50day so we can feed that information

1:38:52where I'm feeding stuff in from clerk

1:38:54world Phil and Sarah will be sending it

1:38:56in from attorney world and they'll be

1:38:57sending it from their colleagues around

1:38:58the state in the country what we're

1:39:00seeing.

1:39:01You know the talk of Department of

1:39:03Justice and and monitors.

1:39:05We Phil Sarah and I met with Department

1:39:07of Justice yesterday to talk about what

1:39:10they're what we're going to see from

1:39:11them.

1:39:12We've had them here in the in the city

1:39:14every election that I've been here and

1:39:15they're probably before I was here as

1:39:17well.

1:39:18And they're supposed to let us know by

1:39:19the week how many people they're sending

1:39:20out and what what it looks like in Grand

1:39:22Rapids. So we're having these positive

1:39:24dialogues so we are prepared also in my

1:39:28election training I um I added a whole

1:39:30slide for this whole election cycle on

1:39:32situational awareness. I'm just being

1:39:34aware of what of what what's going on

1:39:37what what's happening who's outside

1:39:39what's going happening inside and just

1:39:41making sure they're aware. So

1:39:44that's where we're at.

1:39:45>> Thanks Joe.

1:39:46Okay, we're a little past two but not

1:39:49terminally. So thank you everyone. Thank

1:39:50you.

1:39:51>> Thank you.

1:39:51>> Chief.

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