2026-10-14 - Mobile GR Commission

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03:48>> Heat. Heat.

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05:34>> Good afternoon everybody. It is 12:00 so

05:36we'll get started. Um just a couple of

05:39housekeeping things. One is I it's my

05:43understanding that the uh lunches are

05:45MIA. Um hopefully they they find us at

05:47some point. Um and then the second thing

05:50is we we were going to be joined by Max.

05:54Uh Max is uh unfortunately sick. We wish

05:57him the best. I do at least. Um and so

06:01um I I will have an update on uh a

06:04proposed change to the agenda. So we'll

06:06we'll get there when we get there. Um

06:09Mary, can we have a call to order,

06:11please? Oh, I I forgot to say my my

06:15little spiel. Uh, please hold

06:19as I find that.

06:24And here we are. To the members of the

06:26public present, welcome to mobile GR

06:28commission meeting. The commission

06:30provides input on mobility related

06:32activities and programs to department

06:34staff and also makes recommendations to

06:36city commission on policies related to

06:38these activities. As members of the

06:40public, we have an opportunity where you

06:42can provide comments. We are not able to

06:44respond to your comments directly. Uh we

06:47are listening and using your feedback to

06:48inform our decisions. Thank you for

06:50taking the time to join us today. And

06:52now I'll ask for roll call.

06:58>> Patton

06:59>> present.

07:00>> Cessa

07:01>> here.

07:02>> Roar.

07:03Whistling

07:04>> here.

07:05>> Parker

07:06>> here. Ry

07:08Miguel Cypriano

07:10>> here.

07:13>> Armbbrustster

07:14>> here.

07:15>> Lrand

07:15>> yes.

07:16>> Pawa

07:17>> here.

07:17>> Wilson

07:18>> here.

07:19>> Perez pleasure

07:20>> here. We have quorum.

07:21>> Great. Thank you. Um for the approval of

07:24the agenda. So I would like to entertain

07:29um a motion to amend. And so because Max

07:32is not here under discussions, um we we

07:35were going to get an update on the

07:37Acroair Amphitheater 2026 season recap

07:39and Amway Stadium planning. Um we are

07:42going to push that to another date

07:43because uh Max was the point person on

07:45that. So I'd like to recommend that. Um

07:48and note that that information is in the

07:50packet still. So uh you at least get a

07:53little bit of a um you know information

07:56on that. So, I'll ask if anyone is

07:59willing to um make a motion for that

08:01amendment. And thank you, Wesley or

08:05Commissioner Wilson.

08:07>> Second.

08:08>> Awesome. All right, we have a motion. Uh

08:10I'll go ahead and and say is there any

08:13comment discussion?

08:16Okay, seeing none, um, everyone, uh, if

08:19you are in favor, vote, uh, vote with

08:22the usual sign or I

08:26>> I

08:26>> Thank you.

08:28I'm It's been a week. All in favor say

08:30I.

08:31>> Any opposed? All right. Um,

08:36and then we'll move forward with We have

08:38two minutes uh to approve August and

08:41September.

08:42Can I get a motion? I'll move you

08:44approve both of them.

08:45>> Okay, we have a motion for both.

08:48>> We have support. Any uh any discussion?

08:53All in favor say I.

08:54>> I.

08:55>> Any opposed? All right. And that

08:57carries.

08:59I'm seeing no petitions and

09:01communications. Uh so we do have some

09:04action items here. The first one is and

09:08and you'll note that hopefully that you

09:10have some uh piece of paper here. Um

09:13because we are only going to have one

09:15individual uh that we're see asking to

09:17sit on the uh mobility blueprint

09:20technical advisory committee. Um the way

09:23that I uh I worked with the team to

09:26figure out how we could do this was

09:28we're going to do just balloting. Um

09:31>> right. I know it's exciting. So um

09:34>> much easier.

09:34>> Yeah. [laughter] So what I'll ask and

09:37and keep in mind too this uh this

09:41advisory committee is the individual is

09:44going to be representing this uh

09:47advisory commission the mobile GR

09:48commission. So it's not necessarily a

09:51point of hey this is you're not going to

09:53have that element of maybe power or

09:56decision-m um but really being a liaison

09:58to share what this commission uh feels

10:02about it and then being a liaison back

10:04to this commission as well for what's

10:06being discussed. Um so I wanted to kind

10:08of give that level setting for what this

10:10would be. And then what I will ask is if

10:13anyone is interested in self-nominating.

10:16Um really our goal is to get someone who

10:19wants to do it and not necessarily who

10:21is being um nominated to do it. So if

10:24you are interested um I'll encourage you

10:26at this time to to put your name

10:28forward.

10:36Oo and I I should probably mention the

10:38commitment. I think it was around six

10:41meetings. Mary, I'm looking at you

10:42hoping I got that right.

10:43>> Yes. So, it'll be about six meetings

10:45starting uh in this November and then

10:48going until the end of 2027.

10:57>> I'll nominate myself.

10:58>> Okay. We have Commissioner Pulka as a

11:00self-nomination

11:03as a nomination.

11:08And I'll hold for anyone else

11:13and I'll close it now. All right, then

11:17we don't have to ballot.

11:18>> Oh, well, there we go.

11:19>> Congratulations, Commissioner Poelka.

11:22All right. Um, and I will ask, do we

11:26Well, what I might do is just get an

11:28approval for Commissioner Pulka. Um, so

11:30I can I get a motion to have

11:32Commissioner Poco be our representative

11:34for the advis the mobility blueprint

11:37technical advisory committee?

11:39>> So moved.

11:39>> Great. Second. Great. Uh, any

11:42discussion?

11:44All in favor say I.

11:46>> I. Any opposed?

11:48Then that passes. And then, uh, moving

11:52on to the mobile GR commission action

11:54item uh, number two, 2027 meeting dates.

11:58Uh note that this is I believe that's

12:01what page four in your agenda and it has

12:04updated meeting dates based on last

12:07meeting. So I will have you take a

12:10moment to review this and then I'll open

12:12it up if anyone uh would like to make a

12:14motion to approve

12:16the 2027 meeting dates.

12:22[clears throat]

12:30I wonder if um uh when there's times I

12:33can't remember if this last year uh we

12:36skipped any any meetings because of a a

12:38holiday um but if that affected our our

12:42timeline at all.

12:46>> Yeah, Mary, I might look at you.

12:48>> Yeah, we haven't skipped any meetings

12:49this year. Um I believe there was a

12:51holiday maybe Veterans Day that we had

12:54to move the date for. Um but yeah, we

12:56haven't skipped any.

12:58>> And I know last meeting it came up uh

13:00proximity to for example 4th of July. I

13:03know that we were able to still carry on

13:04with that meeting. This year that was

13:06pretty close. Um so I believe what has

13:09been moved is April 14th because

13:12originally it was on a lot of spring

13:14breaks. Um July 14th was to get moved a

13:18little bit further away from Fourth of

13:19July. And then June 9th, I'm trying to

13:22remember.

13:23>> Um I don't know why we moved it, but we

13:25did discuss last meeting to move it. So

13:27okay, I moved it out a week.

13:28>> It may have been overall availability of

13:30the space, too. Um which also has an

13:33impact. So [gasps]

13:36um if that looks good, can I get a a

13:38motion to approve?

13:41>> We have a motion from Marilyn Grant.

13:45And we have a second from uh

13:49I'm sorry my Commissioner Arsterster.

13:51Thank you.

13:53All right. So any discussion on that?

13:56>> The only discussion I'd have is what's

13:58the interior logic on food provision?

14:01Why do we have food the last two or

14:02three meetings and not now?

14:04>> Oh, you I think you just came in. We the

14:07food is MIA right now. Um

14:10>> Okay.

14:10>> Not because a new policy,

14:12>> right? [laughter]

14:13Yes.

14:15>> It It was an unplanned uh lack of food.

14:19>> All right. Uh no discussion. All in

14:21favor say I.

14:22>> I.

14:23>> Any opposed?

14:25>> All right. The motion carries.

14:32Okay.

14:33We're going to move to discussion item.

14:36Uh the only one we have is the November

14:384th workshop. So, um, I'm I'm going to

14:43Mary and I are going to tag team this

14:44one a little bit. So, our goal for

14:47November 4th is to have more of a

14:49workshop, uh, as I understand it, more

14:51of a working meeting, uh, to sort of

14:53help set our priorities, uh, for for

14:56upcoming meetings. So, I want to really

14:58open a conversation to hear from all of

15:00you on on what you think our priorities

15:03are uh, moving forward. Um, and then

15:05later on I can I can probably give all

15:08of you an update on working groups and

15:09some of the discussions I had with Aaron

15:12um yesterday and and how that could

15:15impact some of our our future meetings

15:17as well. So I'm going to open it up um

15:20and you know we we should have some time

15:24so I'm going to open it up to um just

15:26kind of general discussion. I'll start

15:28with uh Mayor Lrand though.

15:29>> Okay. Um this is going to take a minute

15:32folks. So um I would like to have a

15:35discussion. First of all, I would

15:36appreciate the working group if we could

15:38have um maybe a brief review of the last

15:41year. And so one of the metrics um I

15:45I'll put this in very layman's terms and

15:47it'll sound a little sarcastic so

15:48forgive me. Um I try to minimize the

15:51number of committees in my life in which

15:53it feel like my job is to say oh um to

15:56receive information and not be able to

15:59do much with it. Um, and I've been

16:01grateful that this committee has

16:03transitioned away from that, but I think

16:04that we can do a lot more work to do a

16:06lot more um active uh we can have some

16:11metrics on what our what what our

16:12desired actions are. So I would love to

16:14know like last year I know we made one

16:17recommendation

16:19uh on the Kazoo issue and I thought that

16:21discussion was really good. I was really

16:23impressed and we got good granular um uh

16:28uh feedback and and push back maybe on

16:30an on the engineering dynamic there. Um

16:33but I'd like to see that happen a lot

16:35more often to be honest. Um and I'd like

16:37to see us um be able to get in a rhythm

16:41of recommendations not on just design

16:42things but also on policy. And so I'm

16:45just going to name uh a few baskets

16:47here. Um and to do so I want to be a

16:49little I'm going to be a little

16:50pessimistic. um uh first and uh you you

16:55all can disagree with me, but here's my

16:57rough take on um bike lane design in the

17:02city in the last uh 3 or four years. So,

17:06um if anyone can name for me a new

17:10separated bike lane that we've had since

17:11I become mayor, I would love to hear it

17:13cuz I missed it. Um so, we haven't, as

17:17far as I can see, we've made zero

17:18progress, measurable progress on that.

17:21Um we also um have a bike lane on an in

17:26which which people use as um places to

17:29put their trash and uh the trash carts

17:32and that means that's in in an obvious

17:34metric than a fail. Um if you have a

17:36bike lane that's filled with carts, no

17:38one's going to bike in it. Um so I and I

17:42think that's actually correctable, but

17:43it would mean going back and doing some

17:44work to give people some little concrete

17:47pad areas. I've looked at the area and

17:48like you could cut into the green space

17:50and give people an obvious place to put

17:52their carts and then maybe we could uh

17:55revive that Ant Street bike lane, but as

17:57it exists, it doesn't function very

17:58well. Um Turner is, I think, maybe the

18:00least popular uh bike lane I know of in

18:03town. Um for a variety of [snorts]

18:06design reasons, some of which I think

18:07are correctable. Um one for one, to give

18:10you one simple example, it's got really

18:12really tall grasses in it. Um which

18:14makes it really hard to cross if you're

18:16a pedestrian. And it also makes it

18:17really hard to open your door into if

18:18you're parking next to it. And it's

18:20designed to have a park parking lane

18:22right next to it. So, it doesn't

18:24actually work very well for its intended

18:26use. It also looks like a um a bike lane

18:29to nowhere. Um cuz I have I don't ever

18:33anticipate we're going to get anyone who

18:34uses it to get onto the 131. Um but

18:37that's what it looks like it was

18:38designed for. Um it doesn't really go

18:40past the 131 exit if you're going south.

18:43Um

18:45the uh other one of course that I think

18:48is a dramatic fail is the bike lane on

18:50Division Street um between Fuller and

18:54Michigan. Uh catastrophically bad in

18:58terms of interface with pedestrians uh

19:00interface with transit and um

19:03accessibility for people with

19:04disabilities. There is no tactile

19:07division between what's theoretically

19:08the bike lane and theoretically the uh

19:11pedestrian sidewalk, which means you're

19:13telling anybody who's blind to go plan

19:14traffic. They can't differentiate those

19:17two areas without um tactile signals. So

19:20that's something that again we have the

19:22means to correct. The city has a means

19:24to correct. I think this organization

19:26could quite appropriately um come up

19:28with recommendations that we salvage and

19:30and uh improve all three of those

19:32projects. Um, looking forward, I'd love

19:37it if we came up with some actual

19:38recommendations. And I know we're doing

19:40a mobile plan, and I know downtown is

19:42doing one, but that doesn't mean we have

19:43to stop working on things that we could

19:45work on. Um, so I proposed some time

19:47ago, and I've I've floated the idea of

19:50essentially, if you think of a light

19:52rail project, nobody is annoyed that you

19:54don't have light rail on all of your

19:55streets, but I think we could have a

19:57meaningful connected prototype of

20:01continuous bike lanes. uh that actually

20:04provide some meaningful safety. Um and

20:06if we my personal candidate is eastern

20:10from Burton down to Lake all of Lake

20:12Drive and all of Fulton Street. Um I

20:16think that we could make that a

20:17prototype improved bike lane. Uh I think

20:20we'd have to I'd really want to measure

20:22traffic beforehand and afterwards um so

20:24we can see if it actually gets adopted.

20:27Um but that would that would tick a lot

20:29of boxes in terms of um a prototype and

20:32a proof of concept and I don't think we

20:33really have to wait two years to do

20:34that. Um I think there are ways we could

20:36do that quite quickly. Um and I've

20:39actually uh but I think I want to that's

20:42the kind of thing I want to discuss at

20:43the meeting. Uh finally I not finally uh

20:47uh uh Oregon stops. Um, I think we could

20:51make a recommendation to city commission

20:53that we have an explicit policy that

20:55says that when the pedestrian walk sign

20:57goes, uh, bikes get to go. Uh, it makes

21:00things much safer. Um, and, uh, also an

21:04explicit policy that says you don't have

21:05to come to a full absolute stop at a

21:07stop sign. Um, cuz that's a drag to have

21:09to put your foot down if you're on a

21:11bike. And, uh, but I also don't want to

21:13get a ticket for not putting my foot

21:14down at an intersection. So, I think we

21:17can make some good policy uh

21:19recommendations right now to city

21:20commission. Finally, um I pointed this

21:23out at DJRI a few uh few hours ago. Um

21:28the

21:30um my rough intuition is that biking in

21:33the downtown core has roughly doubled in

21:35the last year or two with a lot more

21:37people on bikes and um a lot more people

21:40on ebikes and a lot more people on e-

21:42scooters. Uh, and those are not limited

21:44to ones you can just rent by the use.

21:46They are also things that people are

21:48buying. Um, and that's not going to

21:52stop. That's only going to increase. And

21:54if that's true, we need to have a I

21:57think that this group should have clear

21:59policy recommendations on some kind of

22:01architecture. And some of us have talked

22:03about this offline of what's an ebike,

22:06what's not an ebike, what's an electric

22:08motorcycle, um what's uh what should be

22:12permitted on sidewalks, what shouldn't

22:14be permitted on sidewalks. Um and that's

22:16a complicated policy issue, but I think

22:18that this group would is really the

22:21group that ought to be feeding some good

22:23thoughtful analysis up to city

22:25commission. Um so I'd welcome

22:28discussions of all those things at our

22:30retreat.

22:33Thanks, Mayor Crane. And I'll keep it

22:36open. So,

22:38unless you want me to select you,

22:40commissioner or go for it.

22:42>> Okay. I wasn't sure if we were following

22:44Robert's rules or we kicked Robert out

22:45today, so

22:46>> I'm kicking him out for now.

22:47>> Okay, good.

22:48>> Uh I b I second everything the mayor

22:50said. Um the one thing I would add is

22:52also uh bike lane enforcement. I know we

22:54can't really that's not who does it, but

22:57I think we need to be able to send a

22:58clear signal to the GRPD. I'll use

23:01Wealthy Street as perfect example. Um

23:02I've almost been taken out twice on

23:04Wealthy Street on the west side of uh

23:07131 headed down towards the recycling

23:10center because people think that the

23:12wide bike lane or the bike lane that's

23:14separated by a wide no driving kind of

23:17marking uh is actually a turn lane and

23:20so people make use of it. They also make

23:21use of it going towards Caesar Chavez as

23:24an example, but I think that I've seen

23:25it in other places in the city as well.

23:27So, um, doesn't matter how many bike

23:29lanes we have. If bike lanes are treated

23:30by, uh, many motorists as as a as a

23:34turning lane or a driving lane to get

23:35past, uh, stacked up traffic, then

23:38they're not bike lanes. Um, support the

23:40Idaho stops 100%. 2025 crash data in

23:43Michigan said that 65% u, it clearly

23:46indicates 65% of all collisions with uh,

23:49between bicycles and motor vehicles

23:51happen at intersections. uh digging into

23:53that I don't know the exact percentage

23:55but a high degree of those were actually

23:57where the cyclist was rear ended um

23:59because a lot of motorists don't realize

24:01a cyclist is at a complete or very slow

24:03speed takes time to get moving again um

24:06so yes it would make it safer uh I will

24:10just reiterate even though it was said

24:12100% a network of bike lanes is

24:14important we've got a lot of bike lanes

24:15that just go to nowhere and I know it's

24:17not intentional but it's a lot of the

24:19bike lanes get put in painted in when we

24:22redo asphalt. And I think that we need

24:25to have the tearity to actually say

24:27maybe we should just paint the road even

24:28if we're going to have to tear it up in

24:30two years. But if we put the bike lanes

24:31and connect it, I think that that'll

24:33bring more people to using them. A lot

24:35of bike lanes just aren't used cuz they

24:37don't go anywhere and people don't want

24:38to get stuck in a lane of traffic that's

24:40going 45 and a 25 Fuller Avenue, for

24:43instance. So I always say we treat

24:46currently we treat bikes like um like

24:48they're 16th century fur trappers. um

24:51they have to portage their bike

24:52periodically.

24:54>> The other thing I'll say is uh and the

24:56mayor knows my position on this because

24:57I'm the person he talked to. I'm one of

24:59the people he talked to offline on this.

25:01I would caution the city. I would

25:02caution recommending the city take up

25:05issues that are regulatory in nature

25:07that the state needs to handle like the

25:09emotives. I think we need to do

25:10something about it. Um, so what I would

25:12say is if we make recommendations in

25:15that regard, we need to make sure that

25:17the recommendations we make are ones

25:18that would actually be the right ones

25:19for the city. And some of them are

25:21pretty straightforward, don't need to be

25:23said, but we should probably say it like

25:24you don't drive a motorcycle on the

25:26sidewalk. Um, so we just need to be

25:28careful the range to what we go with.

25:30Uh, because right now the state law, the

25:33MCL is completely silent on e- mopeds

25:35and emotos. And um actually the League

25:37of Michigan Bicyclists is trying to uh

25:39correct that with a couple of

25:41legislators, some actually from here in

25:43West Michigan. But I think if we do it

25:45at the city level, all we're going to do

25:46is just add to the growing patchwork and

25:48we're going to inadvertently turn people

25:49into criminals um as they go from one

25:52jurisdiction to another where the rules

25:53are different. And so we don't want to

25:55do that.

25:58>> Great.

26:01>> Yeah. Um I I concur with most if not

26:05everything of what the mayor and uh

26:07Commissioner Rora were saying. Um during

26:10my time here on the commission um it's

26:12been very from my perspective very

26:14focused on the downtown area. Um that's

26:18I mean the reason why from in my opinion

26:20is that's our main revenue stream.

26:22Obviously we're a self-funded

26:24organization of the of the city

26:26government so parking revenue. However,

26:28um I would love to have an exploration

26:33of how we can better connect our

26:34neighborhoods to each other. Um

26:39necessarily bypassing downtown, but I

26:41believe that would be better for the

26:42city as a whole um connectivity wise. Um

26:46and then you know exploring if we

26:50perhaps cannot afford to do that,

26:52exploring how we can afford to do that

26:54um with uh different revenue streams or

26:58um asking for more money from the uh

27:00city commission. Um so that I would just

27:04love to explore, you know, we're not

27:05mobile GR or we're not mobile downtown,

27:07we're mobile GR. So connecting our our

27:10communities together

27:13>> in in that respect. if I can. I'm sorry.

27:15I know I'm taking more than my share of

27:17the time, but um one of the things that

27:20I have found frustrating um is

27:24for example um there's apparently

27:27discussion and maybe some form of

27:28recommendation from uh that says it's

27:30from mobile GR to change Lion into a

27:33two-way street. Now, I actually think

27:36that's a great idea, but it never got

27:38brought up at this meeting. Uh the first

27:40I heard about it was when Corwell

27:42briefed me that that was uh on the table

27:45as part of their expansion. Well, that

27:47means we're not getting looped in on

27:48that discussion at all. Um on the corner

27:51of Wealthy and Charles right now there

27:53someone is busy building a big bulbout.

27:56Now that is as far as I can see in

27:59significant tension with the fact that

28:01we had a whole discussion about having a

28:03bike lane that went through from

28:05Easttown on Lake Drive and went down

28:07Wealthy Street. Well, if we're building

28:0930-year structures that are essentially

28:13spokes in the I mean sticks in the wheel

28:15of a of a bike that's biking uh that's

28:17biking down that street. Um that never

28:21got discussed here. Um and we still

28:22haven't been briefed on that. Um so, you

28:25know, if we have a plan, it would be

28:27great if this group could have

28:30uh insight into that beforehand. And one

28:33of the things I'd love to see is um

28:36drawings rather than just uh verbal uh

28:40pictures because if someone says, "Oh,

28:42we're going to do traffic calming on

28:44Boston." Well, that could mean a lot of

28:47different things. And uh details matter.

28:49And that's one of the reasons why I

28:50think that the Division Street bike lane

28:53uh was so problematic for me. I finally

28:56did get a picture of it and I was like,

28:57"Wait a minute." like you're going to

28:59either have bikes driving right in front

29:01of buildings uh doorways, which is a

29:04real problem if somebody's going to be

29:05going 25 by a door, or you're going to

29:08have people get dropped off of bus into

29:10a bike lane with no way with no signal

29:13to the bikes that maybe that might

29:14happen. Um so, uh and then the the whole

29:18lack of tactile division. Well, I

29:20couldn't see that in a word picture,

29:21right? If somebody says, "I'm going to

29:22put a bike lane on uh division, details

29:26really matter." So, I would love to have

29:28this commit this committee looped in a

29:31little bit more on that. The other the

29:32other thing I'll say is um traffic

29:34calming. Like I think most of us think

29:36that traffic calming is a great goal and

29:39we'd love to see traffic get to

29:40sublethal speeds around the city. Um on

29:44Fuller

29:46uh uh uh light went in uh a a crosswalk

29:50with a flashing light went in. How did I

29:52hear about that? A neighbor told me. I

29:54mean, it never got we never got briefed

29:56on that here. Um, and my first question

29:59on that uh project, well, I saw a

30:02rollover accident happen uh on Fuller on

30:05a caption on a Ring doorbell camera um

30:08carded two complete somersaults on on

30:12Fuller. Uh that's that was just last

30:15week. Um, I would love to have at least

30:18a briefing on the thinking on has

30:20anybody thought about doing more

30:23comprehensive work on Fuller rather than

30:25just putting in a crosswalk. I mean,

30:27it's great that a crosswalk's going in,

30:29but I'd love to have us have an over

30:31have a broad overview of what are the

30:34five, let's say, what are the five

30:35fastest miles in the city? Uh, or the

30:38most or the f the five miles where

30:40people uh go most over the speed limit.

30:44I have an intuitive sense of what those

30:45are. Um, but I haven't done the I

30:47haven't done formal analysis. I know the

30:50streets that scare the daylights out of

30:51me. If I'm on a bike, uh, Michigan from

30:54Fuller to Plymouth, uh, you know,

30:56Kovville by Lake Michigan Drive, um, or

30:59Lake Michigan Drive by Kovville, you

31:01know, Burton by the time you get around

31:03Calvin. But I'd like to see an ordered

31:06ranking of like here are the ones we're

31:08most concerned about. We, MGR, here are

31:11the streets that we have plans for. Here

31:13are the plans. Here are some drawings.

31:15through some discussion. We're at this

31:17point I think a couple removes away from

31:19that stuff and my experience is things

31:23happen and then I see them and I think

31:25oh that's interesting. Um but it's a

31:29little too late to have input on big

31:31bulbout projects after the concrete's

31:33poured.

31:36>> Commissioner says

31:38>> yeah so I have um some comments about

31:41this. I agree. I I think and we actually

31:43like used to have like a lot of project

31:46updates in our packets that were about

31:48like all the different especially like

31:50the um like pedestrian crossings that

31:52were going in. I don't know when those

31:55stopped happening, but I do miss it um

31:58cuz I think it kind of at least even if

32:00we don't talk about it, it kept me aware

32:02of what was going on. So I think that

32:04would be a good thing to um reintroduce.

32:08Another thing specific for the workshop,

32:10I think it would be good if we could

32:12have um engineering present because um a

32:17lot of what um you're talking about the

32:20mayor, we've actually talked a lot about

32:22at the vital streets oversight

32:24commission. So like a lot of these

32:25conversations are happening just not

32:27here. And I think it would be very

32:29valuable to have maybe even both

32:31commissions together to talk about

32:34exactly these things because um you know

32:37we uh that is a focus that that we have

32:40as like the connectivity and and how the

32:42different pieces work together and how

32:44we can look at you know how to maybe do

32:47more temporary solutions before we do

32:51like a full reconstruction that would be

32:53you know obviously much more expensive.

32:56Um,

32:59also with regard to like the the high

33:02speed and and injury, that was also a

33:04discussion at the vital streets was

33:06about like the high risk versus high

33:08injury networks and how we can

33:11prioritize reconstruction projects with

33:14different um ways to improve safety

33:18based on that metric and not just is the

33:21road falling apart right now. Um, so I

33:25think all of this would be very helpful

33:27if we, you know, could maybe have, we

33:30had that great, um, co-meating with the

33:32planning commission on the mobility

33:33blueprint. I think this would be a

33:34really great opportunity to do something

33:36like that. I don't know if it would be

33:38for November if that would be with

33:40enough time to have everyone be

33:42available. But even [snorts] just like

33:44having some representatives from

33:45engineering, I think would be really

33:47helpful because I know that these two

33:49departments work together on a lot of

33:51these projects. Um, so yeah, I think any

33:54way that we can have this be like a more

33:56holistic approach in the city versus,

33:58um, having things be a little more

34:00separated would be good.

34:03>> Yeah. Yeah. Mary,

34:06>> um, thanks for bringing up the project

34:08updates. I did want to let you know that

34:09we're bringing those back next month, so

34:11you should expect to see those. And we

34:13moved those to quarterly, so that will

34:15be our first report out.

34:17>> Great. Yeah. And my background was we

34:20stopped it with the idea of doing more

34:23of

34:26well no I think it was supposed to be we

34:28were there was supposed to be an update

34:30to how it was being presented right

34:32based on so um I I would recommend too

34:36if that can be a first glance for us is

34:38the the question I might ask for that uh

34:41for the November 4th workshop is is this

34:43capturing what we want to see? Yeah.

34:49I'll quick um take it back here really

34:52quickly and just see for anyone who

34:54hasn't said anything. I want to see if

34:56you would like to add anything to this.

35:01>> Yeah, Commissioner Bruce.

35:02>> I just I'm just going to echo all of the

35:04cycling stuff. I mean, I think that

35:06that's so important. Um you know, given

35:08the organization that I've been a part

35:09of, we've been getting people on bikes,

35:11right? And so there are a lot more

35:12people on bikes and they need to be able

35:14to ride safely. Um, so having protected

35:17and connected bike lanes I think would

35:19be something that we should certainly

35:20discuss. Um, one other little thing that

35:23that maybe I can add to that and I'm not

35:24sure if this fits here but there seems

35:26to be a disconnect at least we've

35:28observed that there's a disconnect

35:30between um the nighttime

35:35the state rules and regulations for

35:37nighttime riding versus what's actually

35:38being enforced in in the city. Uh, for

35:41example, my understanding, and correct

35:43me if I'm wrong here, um, is that

35:45according to the state, you need to have

35:47a front headlight and a rear reflector

35:49um to ride at night. Um, we've heard

35:52numerous times that, uh, that

35:56some of our more financially constrained

35:57riders are being pulled over um, by the

36:00police um, because they do not have a

36:02rear light on their bike. Um, and that's

36:05a disconnect. I think everybody does

36:06need to have a rear light on their bike,

36:08but that's not what the law says. Um and

36:11so just you know having some maybe

36:13education on that to to make sure that

36:15that's enforced properly would be

36:16helpful.

36:18Yeah. But but again echo all the cycling

36:20I think it's so important for our city.

36:22And if I can echo, I mean, one of the

36:24things that gets a lot of attention at

36:25the city commission level is the word

36:27equity. And I've been pointing out all

36:31the time, uh, that,

36:34>> you know, the it's almost as though the

36:36very poorest part of our city is

36:39invisible. Like people don't notice.

36:41Like

36:42>> if you really really don't have a lot of

36:44money, you're not driving a car. You're

36:46riding a bike. Uh, so nobody's picking

36:49up pop cans in in a car,

36:51>> right? Uh that all happens on bikes and

36:54uh you know so if we're actually worried

36:56about um making our city work for people

37:00who don't have cars, we're really

37:02talking about an anti-poverty uh mission

37:05and uh and uh you know helping people

37:08who are in poverty get around and and

37:10make their lives work.

37:11>> Yeah, I think that's so important. I

37:12mean the other thing I'll put out there

37:13which I think is potentially farther

37:16down the road and Andy you might have

37:18better perspective on this is just about

37:19rider education. I mean, it's great to

37:22give people bikes. It's great to have

37:23the infrastructure in place, but if they

37:25don't know how to ride safely and what

37:27the rules of the road are, um, that

37:30creates problems as well. So, you know,

37:32at Upcycle, we haven't cracked that nut.

37:34That's not something we really have the

37:35resources to address right now. But, uh,

37:37but but rider education is is really

37:39important. Well, and again, if we're if

37:41we want to be a welcoming city, um, one

37:44of the things that, you know, am that

37:45that happens in the Netherlands is when

37:47they they know they have an immigrant

37:49population and they know that these are

37:50folks that usually weren't riding bikes

37:52in their home communities or if they

37:53were, they weren't riding them in places

37:55that had, you know, traffic rules. Um,

37:58so yeah, I would love to see our city uh

38:01have maybe as part of our parks

38:03department um some kind of learn to ride

38:06program. Uh, I think it'd be really

38:08helpful.

38:08>> Yeah, I think that would be great. I

38:10mean, you know, over in Amsterdam and

38:11Europe, I mean, there is a cultural

38:13difference, right? You know, they've

38:14been manifesting that for for years. Um,

38:17but but I do think that's important and

38:18and that is I mean, it's outside of

38:20this, but that is something that Upcycle

38:22Bikes wants to tackle, you know, in the

38:23future when we have more resources, but

38:25it's really going to take more than one

38:27organization. We need citywide

38:29initiative.

38:29>> And also schools. I mean, when I was 10

38:31years old, I took a biking course uh in

38:34Cambridge, England, because that was

38:35what you did when you were 10 years old

38:37in Cambridge, England.

38:40I I think I'd be remiss too if I didn't

38:42include and I this is going back years,

38:44but I seem to remember the the keep an

38:46alligator distance uh messaging that was

38:49going around for cars. So, you know, I

38:52would be remiss if I didn't say yes. Yes

38:54to biker uh education because I do think

38:57that's needed and yes to the uh

39:00education for those who are driving

39:02veritable weapons, right? Um, which is

39:06very important.

39:08Cars being the weapons.

39:10>> Yeah. Yeah. Commissioner Whistling,

39:13>> it's kind of an obvious that we would

39:14keep this too, but just wanted to put

39:15out there just the importance of keeping

39:17the discussions around transit and how

39:19we interact with that. I mean, I think

39:20that's something will happen anyway, but

39:22just want to for the record in terms of

39:23yeah, future of Dash. Obviously, we're

39:25looking at the work group, but how that

39:26integrates and how we can best support

39:28each other to make sure we're providing

39:29the best options and how that fits to

39:31first mile, last mile, and all all those

39:33things.

39:35>> Yeah. And as a matter of fact, we might

39:36want to throw in our work group at least

39:37a quick 10-minute point. Uh it's kind of

39:40obvious maybe to you and me, but um

39:42there's a millage uh in the works for uh

39:45the rapid system. And so getting this

39:48organization to be like clearly front

39:50and center behind that would be probably

39:51useful. and we can explore ways in which

39:53we can get visibly involved in that

39:55work.

39:58>> So, one other thing I'm sort of thinking

40:00out loud here, so so bear with me a

40:02little bit, but um you know, [snorts] I

40:04think a lot of the things that we talk

40:05about are how do we move people around

40:08the city that are already in the city.

40:10Um, but I hear quite often from folks

40:13that live outside the city that there's

40:17no way they want to drive into uh into

40:19downtown Grand Rapids because the

40:21parking is too difficult or the streets

40:23are too congested or there's too much

40:24traffic or, you know, we don't have the

40:27signage or the wayfinding in place and

40:28and and I don't know what the answer is

40:30to that, but from an economic

40:31development standpoint, we want people

40:33coming in to the city, right? And so I

40:37if and again my evidence is all

40:39anecdotal but uh but but if that's the

40:42case that might be something you know

40:43worth thinking about either here or

40:45somewhere.

40:47>> I I agree Rick. Um I also want to push

40:50back on that a little bit too because uh

40:52we have done a lot of efforts in the

40:54last 5 years. Totally. Not that you're

40:57wrong at all. Um yeah it's a pain to

40:59drive downtown but that's kind of what

41:00you get with a downtown, right? Um,

41:04from from my perspective, prioritizing

41:06those who live in Grand Rapids would be

41:08a much better value proposition for both

41:10Mobile GR and um

41:14the the citizens we represent. Um, so

41:17just just want to throw that.

41:18>> Yeah, agreed. I I appreciate that. Yeah,

41:20I just thought I'd throw out the

41:21thought. I I also think this is I mean,

41:23you know, the classic Yogi Barrel line,

41:25nobody goes there anymore. It's too

41:27busy. um uh you know if a sign of a

41:31city's success is if pe a whole lot of

41:33people feel like their downtown is

41:35really densed and packed and full of

41:37stuff. Um so you know I could you could

41:40say that about downtown. I mean I don't

41:42think you're proposing congestion uh

41:44pricing but uh you know the way you

41:46actually solve that is congestion

41:48pricing. That's what Singapore did. It

41:49worked really well. That's what London

41:51did. Um, you know, it's what I think

41:53Manhattan is New York. Did Did Trump

41:56stop that or did it actually Okay,

41:58congestion pricing actually works. But

42:00that but that is other than that and but

42:02and we're not we're just not a big

42:04enough city to possibly uh need

42:06congestion pricing, right? But other

42:08than that, like if people are seeing

42:11that downtown is desirable and lots of

42:13people are going there and we get Yogi

42:15Bear uh Yogi Bear push back, I mean, you

42:19know, yeah, downtown is dense. that's

42:20where there are more people and there

42:22are more jobs and there are more

42:24opportunities and that means you're

42:25going to have a lot more there are more

42:27people in the sidewalks too. [snorts] Um

42:29so it's a it's a characteristic of

42:31cities.

42:32>> Yeah. And I just want to bring up too to

42:34sort of Yes. and everyone. Um, I totally

42:36agree. We should think about the

42:38transit. Cuz from my perspective, if

42:40there's one thing the Rapid does really

42:42well, it's getting people downtown. And

42:44I mean, anecdotally, from, you know,

42:46since the amphitheater's been open, I've

42:48been seeing a lot more people on the bus

42:49and a lot more people that, you know,

42:52um, look like they haven't ridden a bus

42:55in ever or a very long time. And so, for

42:58from my perspective, that means that

42:59it's a success, right? we're we're

43:01getting people to to choose alternate

43:03ways to get downtown because I think at

43:05the end of the day, I think, you know,

43:07having a lot of car congestion in the

43:10downtown area is a net negative. You

43:13know, it hurts everyone. It hurts, you

43:14know, first responders trying to get

43:16around. It hurts people trying to walk

43:17safely, um, biking obviously, um, and

43:21just, you know, actually getting people

43:23where they want to go. So any way that

43:25we could reduce people choosing to take

43:28their car into downtown when there are

43:30other modes available I think is would

43:33be a good thing to focus on.

43:35>> Yeah. And I didn't mean to say oh this

43:37is a you know we shouldn't do anything

43:38to make anything better. Uh I think that

43:40a couple a couple things are worth

43:42pointing out. One is we did not have a

43:44parking apocalypse when uh the the

43:47amphitheater opened and publicizing to

43:51people the fact that even when there are

43:53you know the Voss is full amphitheater

43:56sells out uh Vanandal sells out our

43:58parking ramps were not full. Um and

44:02there are lots of underutilized parking

44:05ramps. Like maybe we could publicize did

44:06you know on the average day you know our

44:08ramps are only half full. um that might

44:11actually not be a bad in terms of if

44:14there's a perception issue um then you

44:16know one of the answers to perception is

44:18always marketing right if you get people

44:20the accurate information um

44:23yeah so thought

44:26>> just to piggyback off that a little bit

44:28a while ago I had mentioned a community

44:30member tell me that he would prefer to

44:33park in city lots but he wasn't always

44:35sure where they were and but he could

44:37always tell where the privately owned

44:38ones were um And realistically, like we

44:42can have apps and things, but there's a

44:43percentage of the population that's

44:44never going to. And so make that

44:47education piece of when you park in a

44:49city lot, it helps your city. You know,

44:51the money goes back to your city and

44:53here's where all the lots are.

44:54Obviously, like the devil's in the

44:56details. How do we do that? Exactly.

44:58But, um, in theory, I think that would

45:00be really helpful

45:02also.

45:02>> Yeah. I mean, you go into a midsize town

45:04in London and they hit you over the head

45:06with where the public parking is. Um,

45:09you know, so good wayinding and we've

45:11actually got Hal comes to our uh city

45:14commission meetings about every time and

45:16points out that we don't have uh we

45:18could do a lot better on our way finding

45:20and just telling people where the ramps

45:22are when they drive into our downtown.

45:25So, it's it's hard for us to to look at

45:27the city with fresh eyes. Like, pretend

45:29I'm from Iowa and I drove in downtown.

45:31How would I know where the ramps were?

45:33Um, that's really the that's really the

45:36test, right? Not not if you live here,

45:38do you know where the ramps are?

45:41>> So, I want to Oh, uh, Commissioner

45:44Wiler, one, you haven't said anything,

45:46so I'll prioritize you and then I I'll

45:48follow up with some thoughts that I have

45:49on what November 4th could look like and

45:51then maybe get some responses

45:53>> just in thinking about these issues,

45:54whether it's uh how are we working in

45:57closer relationship with uh planning,

46:00zoning, engineering, what does that

46:02future state look like? uh acknowledging

46:05the reality is like there is still a lot

46:07of private automobile transit that

46:10drives downtown development. Um there

46:13was a really great podcast, Strongstown

46:15podcast that featured um gentleman's

46:17from Happy City and Mobicon who have an

46:21interesting framework. What they're

46:22proposing is like how do you design for

46:24cars and people centered places? So this

46:26notion of like where are their flow

46:28streets and where are their place

46:29streets and fundamentally those

46:31necessitate different things and just

46:33thinking how are we working in sync with

46:35those other partners to help enact this

46:38uh the vision that we have for a better

46:40city. And so I feel like this I'm

46:42thinking about like how do we share a

46:43language um that could be useful just

46:46even like a one-hour podcast listen to

46:48see how these firms are doing it.

46:50>> That's great. And I know uh Commissioner

46:54Roer if if Okay, thank you. I'll I'll

46:57come back if you have anything else. Um

46:59a few things that I think are on my mind

47:01and and keeping in mind that um I think

47:03my goal right now is taking all of these

47:05ideas and seeing how can we these are

47:07going to be more ideas than we can

47:09capture on one, you know, one single

47:11meeting. So what does it look like for

47:12us to create a trajectory where we have

47:14opportunities to talk through this and

47:16build something? Um I think at a high

47:18level what I'm hearing is I I do like

47:21the idea of course of kind of giving

47:23some background right at the start

47:25keeping it short um you know high level

47:28um but then after that

47:31uh what do we want I think having maybe

47:33having a conversation of everything we

47:35talked about and what that could look

47:36like maybe within our working groups. I

47:38don't think that has to be too long

47:40either, but um potentially it could be,

47:43hey, here's a north star for where we

47:46want to go uh within these working

47:48groups. I know safety came up quite a

47:50bit. Commissioner Rory, you you had a

47:52lot on that. Uh Mar Grand, you had a lot

47:54on that. So that is a specific working

47:56group. And so maybe the question is for

47:58each working group, are there

48:00potentially memos that we maybe want to

48:02consider coming out of those working

48:04groups? Um, I don't want to put the cart

48:06before the horse at the same time. I

48:08want some more or something to be

48:09organic, but I do want to have some

48:10goals all the same. Um,

48:14I think getting back to what data we do

48:16want to see. Uh, and we'll get an

48:17opportunity to see that for the uh for

48:20the updates that the quarterly updates

48:22that will be coming back. And then I

48:24think one of the big ones I'm hearing

48:26and and please tell me if this is too

48:28broad or or if this is maybe just the

48:30right place to start is tangible. And I

48:34want to focus on tangible solutions for

48:35micromobility and and a I'm sorry, I

48:38shouldn't say micro mobility,

48:40diversification of mobility uh with an

48:42emphasis on biking. Um which which

48:45sounds like that is the the major uh

48:47focus here.

48:49I'm I'm going to throw those out.

48:52>> Yeah, I agree. Um, I I think I I would

48:57rather it not be with an emphasis on

48:58biking, but I I believe as far as

49:02tangibility goes, that's probably where

49:04we would get the most impact.

49:06>> Gotcha. Yeah.

49:07>> Well, and if I can say like I really

49:09don't want to um make uh pedestrian

49:12mobility uh sec secondary to biking

49:15>> um for a variety of reasons. One is

49:18everybody's a pedestrian. The minute

49:19they get off their bike, get out of

49:21their car, whatever. um we're all

49:23pedestrians periodically or or

49:25rhythmically. Second of all, I just feel

49:27like there's huge huge work to be done

49:30in terms of and I actually am kind of

49:32excited. I think we may be approaching a

49:35tipping point on uh crosswalk culture.

49:39Um I'm just in Halifax, Nova Scotia,

49:44which is town I grew up in, you can tell

49:46when someone's crossing a street from

49:48about two blocks away because it's like

49:50the Red Sea. It's like car stop and

49:52you're like, "Oh, somebody must be

49:53crossing the street." like it's VOP. You

49:55can just you can see it happening uh at

49:57a distance because and one of the

50:00problems I have in Halifax is if you

50:02have a conversation with somebody too

50:03close to the an intersection, cars will

50:06just stop on spec because they'll just

50:08see people near near the road and

50:10they'll just start stopping for you and

50:11so you have to interrupt them and wave

50:13them on because there's this real deeply

50:15ingrained understanding in that in the

50:17driver culture there that like a

50:19pedestrian could walk out in front of a

50:21car at any time. You got to be ready to

50:22stop. You gota we're not messing around.

50:24Um you know when I when I you know first

50:29became mayor and I was taking a hard

50:31look at like ob just watching how many

50:33people would just blow past pedestrians

50:36standing at crosswalks patiently and

50:39pedestrians wait until there are no cars

50:42or did because they don't want to die.

50:44Well I'm at the point now and I think

50:46that the inon flashes are really

50:48helping. We're getting to a I'm I'm

50:51seeing driver behavior change, but the

50:53tipping point's going to be when like

50:55cars start stopping, cars cars start

50:58assuming that a pedestrian has the right

51:00away and when the whole culture assumes

51:03that. Um and I think we can get there

51:05with a lot more um instanton crosswalks.

51:10Uh I think that's really what it's going

51:11to take. Like not 10 of them, like

51:13literally a thousand. I think maybe

51:162,000. I think we should have instanton

51:18crosswalks all over this town and if we

51:20do that I think you driver behavior will

51:23actually change but there's a tipping

51:25point question and like how many you

51:26have to have to have that happen so I

51:28don't want to say

51:30just because we're talk just because I

51:32brought up bikes doesn't mean that don't

51:35don't get me wrong on this at least like

51:37I think it's really really important

51:38that we make sure that that we if we can

51:41live in a world where in a city where

51:43everybody understands that the most

51:45important trans transit person is a

51:48person on two feet. Um, it accomplishes

51:51almost all your other objectives. Um,

51:53it's good for it's good for public

51:55transit, it's good for the cyclists, uh,

51:57it's good for safety in general. Um, so

52:02sorry, long long comment there, but I I

52:05do not want to say we shouldn't be

52:07working on pedestrian stuff. And I think

52:08that we've we have the technology um,

52:11you know, we have the ability to do

52:13this. And I think that's somewhere where

52:15if we named a goal, um, I think the

52:17simplest way to slow down, actually, I

52:19think the simplest traffic calming thing

52:21is to have people just really expect

52:22that people are going to try to be

52:24crossing the street and then if they do,

52:25they have the right to cross the street

52:27and you have to stop for them. Uh, cuz

52:29it's hard to go 50 m hour if every block

52:31there might be somebody crossing the

52:32street.

52:35I just want to second uh both comments

52:37on not prioritizing just a discussion

52:39about uh cycling as a mobility even

52:42though that's kind of my wheelhouse and

52:44what pays the bills for me. Um but I

52:47think we need to be specific when we

52:49talk about and contextualize it. We when

52:50we talk about pedestrians, it's not

52:52simply just crossing the street, but we

52:54already have a lot of sidewalks. In

52:55fact, most of the city has sidewalks on

52:57most of its streets. um unless you

52:59really get really outside of downtown

53:01into some of the neighborhoods where we

53:02don't have sidewalks obviously.

53:04>> Um so I think to the mayor's point it's

53:08it's you know working at changing the

53:10culture to make to make being a

53:12pedestrian safe. Some of that's

53:13educating pedestrians to like cross in

53:15crosswalks not just mid block and just

53:17stepping out from between cars. Um but I

53:20think cycling I still think the reason

53:22we we have to put some priority and

53:25emphasis on cycling is that in order to

53:27really make cycling safe we have to

53:29ensure that we have that connected

53:30network and you know and protected in

53:32the right places. Um but it's really a

53:35network of networks and how do they all

53:36interact and come together because where

53:38you have pedestrian infrastructure um

53:40can affect where you put the cycling

53:42infrastructure and how you place those

53:43is also impacted by the roads and the

53:45choices that engineers make. Do we have

53:47lots of good standards that are

53:48available? It doesn't seem like we

53:50follow all of the standards. We pick and

53:51choose the parts of the standards we

53:53want to follow. Um so I I think those

53:55are really the discussions that we

53:56should really be trying to start um to

54:00make sure that we're contextualizing

54:01what we're talking about. And I do agree

54:02with the comments about um you know

54:05acknowledging that a great number of the

54:08people that travel into Grand Rapids

54:10from outside Grand Rapids or choose to

54:12travel to downtown whether they're from

54:14another part of the city or from outside

54:16the city a great number which is close

54:19to not quite 100% but probably very

54:21close to are using automobiles to do

54:23that. And so we need to acknowledge

54:25that, take that into account, and then

54:27figure out ways to maybe, and we've

54:29tried to do that with things like Dash,

54:31but you know, figure out ways to

54:32encourage people to when they can to not

54:35actually bring their car all the way

54:36into the city or all the way into the

54:38downtown,

54:38>> right? Go ahead.

54:40>> Um, can I ask uh city staff uh when it

54:43comes to uh bike lanes, um what team is

54:47is working on that? Like how many people

54:49do we have that are available?

54:54It's a great question. Um, we are a very

54:57lean team in terms of traffic safety and

54:59such. So, um, there are three engineers.

55:01We have two planners that are kind of in

55:03that work. Um, we do a lot with

55:05engineering as kind of technical

55:06advisers to their projects. Um, that

55:09they're the ones kind of leading and um,

55:11essentially pushing forth. So, it is

55:13something that um I've actually been

55:15going around to the various departments

55:16and kind of having I don't want to call

55:18it like an airring of grievances or just

55:19kind of you know what issues people have

55:21had with our various bike lane designs

55:23and kind of you know having um an

55:25opportunity for you know public works

55:28sanitation. I'm going to go talk to ESD

55:30you know what kind of have we had these

55:32facilities out there and really kind of

55:34making sure that we're kind of taking

55:36the best from all of these and leaving

55:38behind the things that are kind of

55:39problematic. So it is basically within

55:42the traffic safety team. Um in terms of

55:44the design and other kind of components

55:46to it um kind of larger policy and

55:49things like that would sit with Max's

55:50team and the strategic initiatives

55:52obviously with the mobility blueprint

55:54coming forth.

55:55>> Would that include sidewalks and

55:57pedestrian facilities?

55:59>> So sidewalk gap program is actually run

56:01by the engineering department and kind

56:03of where um using vital streets money to

56:05kind of close those gaps. What our

56:08mobile GR kind of team is looking at is

56:10the crosswalks and anywhere that we can

56:11put those uh rapid flashing beacons. And

56:13so um most of that has been done with

56:16state funding. So that's kind of why you

56:18see these, you know, 10 11 of them come

56:21together because that's maxing out the

56:22state funding that we can get in one go.

56:24So really what kind of traffic control

56:27or signage or any other kind of extra,

56:30you know, bells and whistles are

56:32recommended comes through mobile GR to

56:34engineering.

56:36Thanks, Ariana. Um, I think then uh my

56:39suggestion for this workshop would be

56:41I'd love to talk about how we might uh

56:43if we can uh make a recommendation to

56:46the city commission to um give give the

56:49traffic safety uh group more funding or

56:52more FTEES to accomplish this work

56:54because we can talk more and more and

56:56plan all these things but if we don't

56:57have people to do it then we can't do

57:00it. Okay.

57:08All right. So, you got one more.

57:11>> I'm sorry. I I got to name one more

57:13bucket list thing. Um, I would love at

57:16some point, it doesn't even have to be

57:17this year, to to uh examine or uh have

57:22an overview of how much it costs uh a

57:25construction project to uh wipe out a

57:28sidewalk in front of a construction

57:30project, what the criteria is for that.

57:33um and uh also what um pedestrian

57:38workarounds uh protocols we have for

57:40that. So, what I mean by that is, uh,

57:43again, to use Halifax, Nova Scotia, cuz

57:45I go there once in a while, um, as far

57:47as I can tell, I haven't checked with

57:49our city staff, but as far as I can

57:50tell, when they have a construction

57:51project that eliminates a sidewalk, uh,

57:54the contractor is required to put in a

57:56temporary flashing crosswalk uh, for the

57:59duration of the project to get you to

58:01the other side of the street. Um, and I

58:04also see lots of construction sites

58:07where the sidewalk is where the

58:09contractor keeps their dumpster um

58:11during the during the course of the

58:13project. And like I'm not sure that

58:15that's the best use of public space. Um,

58:18and I often look at construction sites

58:20and I'm I'm not intuitively convinced

58:22that eliminating the sidewalk was uh

58:26necessary, but it's also true that there

58:28are lots of places where if you

58:30eliminate the sidewalk, you could have

58:32also eliminated um the parking spaces

58:34associated with it and you could have

58:36kept sidewalk connectivity um by

58:38requiring uh the sidewalk to go through

58:41the parking spaces during the course of

58:42construction. So, I think we could do

58:44much much better uh at site management

58:47and site criteria. And I also think that

58:50some of like how how much you use the

58:52sidewalk is going to be affect if you're

58:54the contractor is going to be affected

58:55by how much the city charges uh people

58:58to have the sidewalk closed. So, I'd

59:00love to have a review of that at some

59:02point. I think we could do much better.

59:03I see other cities doing things that I

59:05don't see us doing.

59:08>> Great.

59:09Okay. So, I'm I'm going to take this

59:11moment to kind of share what I what I

59:13have kind of updated. Uh, and then I'm

59:15also going to give just an update on on

59:18the working groups. Um, and then my

59:20conversation with Aaron on that. Uh, so

59:22then we have some background uh what we

59:25want to specifically happen with working

59:27groups and and maybe just an idea of the

59:29goals. Um, get back to what data we do

59:33want to see to help us make some

59:34decisions. uh tangible solutions for

59:38diverse mobility and and pushing for uh

59:41greater diversity and and maybe some

59:43changes um that can support that. Safety

59:46is probably going to be a large part of

59:48that. And then understanding and working

59:50toward traffic safety staffing. Um I

59:54don't know how much we can do with that,

59:55but I'm going to throw that out there

59:56and maybe we can figure that out. Um so

1:00:00any anything else? And I'm trying to

1:00:04keep it high level.

1:00:06Okay. And then just a few updates on

1:00:08working groups. Um so of course we have

1:00:12mobility safety. Um and then the dash

1:00:15working group. So ju few things that I

1:00:19discussed with Aaron were with the dash

1:00:20working group. I think one is um and and

1:00:23commissioner poa has been pushing them

1:00:25for this for a while but and overall

1:00:27what is the goal and mission of the dash

1:00:29I think will be a big focus for that.

1:00:31Um, and then what I would what I would

1:00:33kind of urge this group to think about

1:00:34too is this is a lot of you know it's a

1:00:37lot of money that also what would it

1:00:39look like for us to envision if we have

1:00:41that goal? Is there another way to

1:00:43accomplish that goal? I think I'd put

1:00:44that out there too and and have you

1:00:47consider and think through that and

1:00:48discuss it um for safety. One of the big

1:00:52things that came up and I think this uh

1:00:55connects with a point from Commissioner

1:00:56Roar was and and even uh to a point

1:01:00Mayor LRAN made is what does it look

1:01:02like to make decisions around what gets

1:01:04prioritized for safety. Um and and we

1:01:07probably are seeing that even too with

1:01:08the bike lanes. I think if I look at

1:01:10division, the the bike lanes on the

1:01:12sidewalk looks a lot like what I see in

1:01:14Indianapolis. Uh but if I look at maybe

1:01:17our protected bike lanes on Turner, that

1:01:18looks like a lot of other cities. And so

1:01:21are we fully thinking through the that

1:01:25this is the best way to do it and this

1:01:26is the best place to do it. Um and are

1:01:29we really taking from a hodgepodge of

1:01:31too many models when we do it. Um so

1:01:34kind of thinking through that but then

1:01:35prioritization I may be getting too far

1:01:37in the weeds. You all can take the

1:01:38conversation but higher level of how do

1:01:41we prioritize these projects and then

1:01:43mobility. I think really a big a large

1:01:46process for this is how do we encourage

1:01:48um a change right? How do we encourage

1:01:50diversification of mobility? And some of

1:01:53that can connect to safety. Um so I want

1:01:56you to think through that. But um those

1:01:59are a few ideas that I was throwing out

1:02:01and then of course you're going to have

1:02:02leaders who are helping to lead these

1:02:04conversations and report back. Um, one

1:02:07thing that I had on my mind too in terms

1:02:09of safety is I I truly think we and a

1:02:12lot of the feedback I've been hearing

1:02:14from uh residents is

1:02:17we are I believe reaching a point where

1:02:19especially when it comes to stop signs,

1:02:22stop signals. We may be at a point where

1:02:25either we have to say, "Hey, we really

1:02:26need more support from uh city police or

1:02:30we need to start creating designs like a

1:02:32roundabout, right? Is can can to some

1:02:35greater degree um help with safety

1:02:39better than a police officer trying to

1:02:42catch and change a random individual's

1:02:44uh interactions with a stoplight?" Um,

1:02:48better right. There is a greater level

1:02:50of self-p policing with some of our

1:02:51designs. though. Um I I've just

1:02:54continued to hear, yeah, I'm looking at

1:02:56traffic. I'm looking at people going

1:02:58ridiculous speeds on Fuller, for

1:03:00example, uh when it becomes a two-way

1:03:03that we're not seeing the interventions

1:03:06that I think many of us would hope to

1:03:07see. And so we have to start considering

1:03:10what design looks like so that we don't

1:03:12ne we don't have to depend on those

1:03:14interventions. Um that's my soap box for

1:03:17the for the moment on this. Um anything

1:03:20else? Uh, and if not, and I also don't

1:03:24if I don't have to be the last voice,

1:03:25but if there's anyone else, I open it

1:03:27up. Yeah.

1:03:29>> Touch on one thing is Ken Ken, you kind

1:03:31of brought this up is um, you know, we

1:03:33can come up with all these great ideas,

1:03:35but there are resource constraints,

1:03:36right? Funding constraints, staffing

1:03:38constraints, all that stuff. So, if we

1:03:40have a great plan um or great ideas um

1:03:43that's great, but then we need to think

1:03:44about okay, what how do we address those

1:03:47those capacity constraints to to make it

1:03:49possible? I mean, I can imagine city

1:03:52staff sort of like cringing at some of

1:03:54these things, right? You know, as they

1:03:56get talked about cuz they're like,

1:03:57"Yeah, it's a good idea, but but how how

1:04:00are we going to make it happen?" So, I

1:04:01think that, you know, down the road, not

1:04:02on the fourth probably, but down the

1:04:04road, that's something we really need to

1:04:05consider. And I think that was a really

1:04:06good point that you brought up. I kind

1:04:10of piggybacking on that too. I think

1:04:12coordination would be really great

1:04:14because so let's say our goal which I

1:04:17think it should be is to create memos of

1:04:19this is what our commission wants to

1:04:21see.

1:04:22What will happen is that memo will go to

1:04:24the city commission and then they say

1:04:27received and filed. Right? So then is

1:04:30there an opportunity to then have to

1:04:32coordinate and say hey this motion is

1:04:34going or this um this memo is going

1:04:38before the commission. Do we want to

1:04:40have representatives from here also

1:04:42simultaneously saying hey we were a part

1:04:44of submitting this memo like it can be

1:04:46me it can be me with a few people um I

1:04:50think that if we have some coordination

1:04:52on these thing on these things that we

1:04:53value and think are important will also

1:04:56help it move a little bit closer to our

1:04:58goal.

1:04:59>> Yeah. Um, so speaking as somebody who's

1:05:01been a legislator in some ways for a

1:05:04while, um, yeah, uh, any all elected

1:05:08officials tend to have sort of bandwidth

1:05:10issues and attention span issues. Um,

1:05:13which is why anything you all I always

1:05:15tell people, you know, if you want to

1:05:17talk about a project, do you have a one

1:05:18sheet? Do you have this in bullet points

1:05:20that someone can look at in 30 seconds

1:05:21or less? Um, so you get 3 minutes at the

1:05:25microphone if you come to city

1:05:26commission, which means you're

1:05:28guaranteed to get the city commission's

1:05:29attention for the 3 minutes that you're

1:05:31talking to them. Um, whether or not they

1:05:33read anything that they get sent is, you

1:05:36know, is an open question. Um, but you

1:05:38can pretty much guarantee that you get

1:05:40their attention for 3 minutes if you

1:05:41come to the microphone and every

1:05:43individual gets three minutes. So this

1:05:44group could get an hour. Um, so I think

1:05:47that's a great point. Um the uh yeah,

1:05:52I'll I'll leave it at that.

1:05:53>> All right.

1:05:54All right. So, I'll go ahead and move on

1:05:57to updates if that works for everyone.

1:06:00Um and then Commissioner Cesa, do you

1:06:02have updates for Vital Streets?

1:06:05>> We are meeting on Monday. Um just

1:06:07looking at the agenda. Um looks like the

1:06:10biggest thing we'll be discussing is our

1:06:13um recommendation to city commission

1:06:16about prioritizing investment to support

1:06:19vision zero, which is no traffic deaths.

1:06:22Um so we're discussing exactly the types

1:06:25of things that are very relevant to to

1:06:28this body. So I'll be sure to to let you

1:06:31know how it goes.

1:06:32>> That's great. And I know this this

1:06:34commission last time we made priorities

1:06:36vision zero was very high for this. So

1:06:39great. Thank you. Uh director's updates.

1:06:43>> Um Jess is off on leave for a brief

1:06:46moment here. So um there are the

1:06:48director updates for you to read in

1:06:49detail, but kind of just talking about

1:06:50the mobility blueprint and that we're

1:06:52having our first kind of internal

1:06:53visioning of bringing all the folks from

1:06:56various departments in the city

1:06:57together. So kind of our assistant

1:06:59directors and directors and kind of all

1:07:01the people who make those departments

1:07:03go. So we had put a lot of thought into

1:07:06who needs to be at the table to make

1:07:07this a city-wide initiative and not just

1:07:09a mobile GR initiative. And then

1:07:11obviously we will have our member here

1:07:13from uh Commissioner Pula for our

1:07:15technical advisory committee. Um there's

1:07:17a good write up on the first month of VO

1:07:20and its roll out and kind of how the

1:07:22usage kind of based on how many vehicles

1:07:24were there. Generally the fleets reduce

1:07:27in the winter just given Michigan's

1:07:29lovely um kind of discouragement

1:07:32sometimes but um they did add more uh

1:07:35vehicles because they had such a initial

1:07:37response to the kind of initial roll

1:07:39out. So you can see kind of where that's

1:07:41going to be when we kind of get to the

1:07:43full spring roll out in 27. Um kind of

1:07:46highlighting some of the work that we've

1:07:47been doing with together West Michigan

1:07:49on the Kalamazoo corridor. We have um

1:07:52the signal design and all that is in

1:07:55engineering to go out to consultants so

1:07:57that we can get those and get a price

1:07:59tag for that which is half the battle

1:08:01sometimes of knowing how much things

1:08:02cost. And then um I would like to

1:08:05welcome our new business operations

1:08:07manager Scott Bandera

1:08:10if you'd like to say a few. Sure.

1:08:14>> You just have to slide the bottom

1:08:15underneath up. It's muted.

1:08:17>> Okay.

1:08:19Okay, can you hear me? All right, great.

1:08:22So, yep. My name is Scott Vandere. This

1:08:24is my fifth week here with uh Mobile GR.

1:08:27Uh my job focuses on the financials for

1:08:30the department across all divisions,

1:08:33customer service and success, and then

1:08:35also uh carrying forward the initiatives

1:08:38from the city's HR department. So,

1:08:40employee reviews, making sure

1:08:42recruitment's happening and effective.

1:08:44So, uh my background is in hospitality

1:08:47management. So I my last role is as area

1:08:50director for a company called Creative

1:08:52Dining Services based out of Zealand. I

1:08:53was with them for 25 years. So um very

1:08:57excited to be working for the city and

1:08:59one of my goals when I was looking for a

1:09:01new career was to work in an area where

1:09:03I can impact my community. So just

1:09:05absolutely excited to be part of this

1:09:07group.

1:09:08>> Great. Welcome.

1:09:09>> Thank you. We were very excited to have

1:09:11Scott join the team and kind of one of

1:09:13the things that we have within mobile GR

1:09:15within our staff and just kind of how we

1:09:16interact with the city is the wide range

1:09:18of folks from every kind of walk of life

1:09:21and something that is a very similar

1:09:23slice of life is food service. So that

1:09:26was definitely one of Scott's kind of

1:09:28bonus uh past experiences to bring with

1:09:30him. So

1:09:32>> awesome.

1:09:33Thank you for that. And one thing that,

1:09:37and correct me if I'm wrong on this, for

1:09:39Together West Michigan, it looks like

1:09:41there may have been some things that

1:09:43hopefully were were kind of updated

1:09:45there within the the restrictions of

1:09:47funding um that maybe allowed for some

1:09:50interventions that that could help with

1:09:52Adams and Kalamazoo.

1:09:53>> Yeah, there's there's a number of kind

1:09:57of signage updates and then we reviewed

1:09:58site corners and other things like that.

1:10:00So that's kind of just through our

1:10:01general operations where we put in a

1:10:03work order for a sign to be replaced or

1:10:05moved um based on our current

1:10:07investigation. So um one thing that may

1:10:09be kind of noticing around the city is

1:10:11that we have a lot of new shiny

1:10:12sidewalks or crosswalks right now. So

1:10:14with our very rainy March and April, we

1:10:17are usually the first kind of city out

1:10:19of the gate for our payment marking

1:10:21contractors, but when it's wet and cold,

1:10:23we can't put anything down.

1:10:25>> So that's where we are kind of getting

1:10:26in some of the stuff here at the end of

1:10:28the season. So that's where, you know,

1:10:30we [clears throat] generally try to get

1:10:32that out for the summer, but mother

1:10:34nature does have to cooperate on that.

1:10:35So

1:10:36>> that's great. Yeah, thanks for that

1:10:38update.

1:10:39>> All right, at this point

1:10:42I am going to open it up to public

1:10:44comment. I will get my

1:10:48uh script here. All right, I will now

1:10:50open the floor for general public

1:10:53comment. The board would appreciate

1:10:54having the members of the public

1:10:56attending the meeting today identify

1:10:57themselves before providing comment.

1:10:59However, it is not required to give your

1:11:01name. Is there any public comment?

1:11:05Yeah, please. Um, and do we do we have a

1:11:09spot? Oh, great. Yeah, please come on

1:11:12up. We'd love for you to talk into the

1:11:14microphone for those uh who may be

1:11:16watching us online.

1:11:18>> I already unmuted it for you, sir.

1:11:24Good afternoon.

1:11:25>> Good afternoon.

1:11:26>> My name is Ken Webb. I'm a resident of

1:11:28East Castle Drive. I've been here before

1:11:31and I know you all had priorities with

1:11:33Kalamazoo and Griggs and it looks like

1:11:35some things have got resolved on it, but

1:11:37I don't want anybody to lose sight of

1:11:39East Castle where the winter time's

1:11:41coming up and we have there's a big

1:11:44curve on that uh street and cars come

1:11:46around there and they lose control. They

1:11:49knock over our mailboxes. uh they've hit

1:11:52my car, they've damaged and my car was

1:11:53actually in my driveway and it was

1:11:55damaged and I just don't want anybody to

1:11:58lose focus on that. So,

1:12:01>> thank you. Yeah, appreciate it.

1:12:04>> Ken, is there cross streets East Castle

1:12:06Drive and or the intersection

1:12:08>> uh East Castle Drive and 44th Street?

1:12:11It's between uh Kazoo and Brettensson in

1:12:15between those two streets.

1:12:19>> Yep. Okay.

1:12:24Any other public comment?

1:12:30All right. Seeing uh no members of the

1:12:32public wishing to speak on agenda items

1:12:35or I'm sorry on on any items, uh I will

1:12:37close the public comment period. And at

1:12:40this point, we'll move into commissioner

1:12:42comments. Any commissioner comments?

1:12:45>> I have a quick one. Um um the resident

1:12:48who just spoke has had been here maybe

1:12:50two other times. This makes it the third

1:12:52time. I'm just curious if we've got

1:12:54somebody that's following up or at least

1:12:56has something on file.

1:12:58>> Yeah, it has gone on to my list here um

1:13:00to check with our traffic calming uh

1:13:02kind of group. Um and then actually

1:13:05we'll have a conversation with the

1:13:06gentleman here before he leaves too to

1:13:08make sure that we're if he's in the

1:13:10pipeline and where we can make sure that

1:13:12that's going fast or to get into the

1:13:14pipeline. So,

1:13:16>> thank you.

1:13:16>> Yeah, thanks for that question, Mayor

1:13:18Lrand.

1:13:19>> Uh, yeah, a couple things that I think

1:13:20again depending on how proactive the

1:13:22group wants to get. Um, probably most of

1:13:25us follow on some level, the increase

1:13:27in, um, road funding money that the city

1:13:30got uh, and is going to presumably have

1:13:32for the next number of years. um that

1:13:35money can uh I I think that frankly we

1:13:38uh this group should be having some

1:13:41clear objectives for and and uh to

1:13:43follow up on uh Commissioner uh Miguel

1:13:47Cypriano's point um you know if there's

1:13:50more roading funding more road funding

1:13:53money and uh that money can be used for

1:13:57staff to work on the objectives of this

1:13:59group and to work on

1:14:02we all know that The initial sort of

1:14:04vital streets mantra was a complete

1:14:07streets mantra and that didn't lead to

1:14:10doesn't it it can't get you connectivity

1:14:13and reasonably uh you know reasonable

1:14:17throughput on on things like bike lanes.

1:14:19But it's also true that um things like

1:14:21pedestrian crosswalks like we just don't

1:14:23have much funding funding for that. But

1:14:25we got $10 million of extra uh money

1:14:28from the state last year give or take.

1:14:30um you can build a lot of crosswalks

1:14:32with that money. So I think uh we should

1:14:35be there should be a discussion or or

1:14:38there should be advocacy from this group

1:14:39to city commission as they are making

1:14:41their budget um for that money to be

1:14:45allocated for priorities to this group.

1:14:47Second thing I'd say is um I don't know

1:14:49what you are all seeing on VO. I'm

1:14:51seeing um uh qualified concern um but

1:14:56also I'm seeing a lot of use which is

1:14:59great. Um the and the thing I love about

1:15:02them is if you remember the review like

1:15:04almost all these things have bigger

1:15:06wheels. I would really be interested in

1:15:08knowing what the ratio has whether

1:15:10there's been a shift in ratio from small

1:15:13wheeled things uh to big wheeled things

1:15:16as we've gone to VO. I suspect that we

1:15:18have seen that almost everybody I see on

1:15:20a VO thing seems to be on a big wheeled

1:15:22thing. Um the reason big wheels matter

1:15:25is cuz if you hit a pothole you don't

1:15:27get a closed head injury. um if uh small

1:15:30wheels are just inherently dangerous for

1:15:32road flaws. So, I'm a I'm a big fan of

1:15:35people having bigger wheeled options

1:15:37when they're um renting things. So,

1:15:39that's great. The concern I see for the

1:15:41VO thing is I'm I'd love to hear like

1:15:44how well the geo fencing and maybe we

1:15:47want to call it micro geo fencing is

1:15:49actually working. Uh cuz I am seeing a

1:15:51lot of them on sidewalks downtown. Um,

1:15:54and uh, there was, you know, the pitch

1:15:57was that their geo fencing was going to

1:15:59be good enough that they could tell

1:16:00whether someone was on a road or on the

1:16:01sidewalk. And if that's true, then I'm

1:16:03not sure how I'm seeing functioning

1:16:06units on sidewalks downtown. Um, and

1:16:08maybe that's a fine-tuning thing. Maybe

1:16:10it's maybe it's something. Anyway, I'

1:16:12I'd love to hear an update on how

1:16:14effective that is, whether it can be

1:16:15improved. Um, in in in addition to all

1:16:19the other data we're going to get. I

1:16:20mean, I'm sure we're going to get user

1:16:22data and that's great. The last thing

1:16:23I'd like to throw out for this group is

1:16:26do you all remember the wonderful

1:16:27Goldilock story about how we did free

1:16:30use of these things for a month in July,

1:16:32maybe two years ago, and used just

1:16:34exploded and then it stayed up. Um, I

1:16:38wonder if, you know, libraries have an

1:16:40amnesty week every year and they don't

1:16:42they don't just do it once in in our

1:16:44lifetime and then they stop doing

1:16:45amnesty week. I wonder if we should

1:16:48think about recommending that there is

1:16:50a, you know, a free VO week every year.

1:16:53Uh, it doesn't even have to be a month,

1:16:54but I am a I'm a big believer that these

1:16:58mobility options, a lot of times people

1:17:00have to try them to figure out how much

1:17:01they like them. Um, you can see people

1:17:03use them all day long, but if you don't

1:17:05want to figure out how to pay for it or

1:17:07whatever, um, I think we'll get a lot

1:17:09more adoption, um, if there's a periodic

1:17:14free moment.

1:17:16And I'm I was intently listening to

1:17:18Mayor Landren, but I saw Commissioner

1:17:20Aurora and then Commissioner Puela.

1:17:21Anyone else with comments, too? Okay.

1:17:25I'm going to on the GPS geo fencing

1:17:26parade just for a second. Um cuz in a

1:17:29pre previous life, I was pretty uh

1:17:31pretty experienced with the use of GPS

1:17:33to do things. And the precision that's

1:17:36required to geoence from a sidewalk is

1:17:38simply not available to civilians. Uh

1:17:41primarily because they couldn't afford

1:17:43it. it just simply isn't there. So I I

1:17:47would tell you that if if I had been

1:17:48sitting in the room when Bo would have

1:17:49said that, I would have immediately used

1:17:52two letters starting with a B, anyone

1:17:53that asked and tell them there's no way

1:17:55you can deliver that because you're not

1:17:56going to put a $10,000 receiver or

1:17:58$20,000 receiver on every single one of

1:18:00those devices. [clears throat] I mean,

1:18:02that that's the reality. I mean, it's a

1:18:04goal they have. There are some ways that

1:18:06they can work around it, but

1:18:07technologically speaking, it's simply

1:18:09not available to them. I think they can

1:18:11get pretty close, but not good enough to

1:18:13keep it off. That's the reality.

1:18:17>> 100% agree. I was the one sitting in the

1:18:19room. Um that is not what they promised.

1:18:21Uh just to be clear, um they promised

1:18:25they have geo fencing like lime does.

1:18:27However, um they use I think it's or

1:18:30like IR cameras or something like that

1:18:32to view the surface of the um p of the

1:18:35pavement or road surface they're on. Um,

1:18:38it was my understanding that they need

1:18:39to build a library of what the road

1:18:42surfaces and sidewalk surfaces in Grand

1:18:44Rapids are so that way then that system

1:18:47can kick on. So, um, just so everyone's

1:18:50clear, that was not an immediate

1:18:51promise. Um, but it is, yes, obviously

1:18:54still a problem and I see it every day,

1:18:55too. Um, with that [clears throat] said,

1:18:58um, I've been noticing a lot of VOS

1:19:00parked in the right of way, not in

1:19:02parking, um, spots. Uh about a month

1:19:05ago, I think I was told by

1:19:06[clears throat] Max Gillis that this is

1:19:08uh because of their like free ride um or

1:19:12$5 unlock fee waiver thing that people

1:19:16basically didn't have to put a credit

1:19:17card in um and then their rides just

1:19:20end. So then they leave their vehic. Um

1:19:24I I'm curious if that's still going on

1:19:27um and if uh you know how long that'll

1:19:30go on for. Um and then

1:19:34I was also curious about VO access um

1:19:37for veterans and students ex and etc. Um

1:19:41we were told also that that would be uh

1:19:44available um for those groups. Uh I've

1:19:47tried multiple times at this point um to

1:19:50to gain vo access um to no avail. Um so

1:19:54I'm I'm curious if that's being worked

1:19:56on as well. [clears throat] Thank you.

1:19:59I wanted to support Commissioner Paul

1:20:00because uh comments that was the other

1:20:02commissioner that was that was part of

1:20:03that. Um and I was surprised to um to

1:20:07hear a lot of that that language leak

1:20:09out into the community into the public

1:20:11it being uh reflected back that there is

1:20:14this geo fencing technology that's

1:20:15better. I don't know where it started

1:20:17but that wasn't the case. Uh I want to

1:20:19be clear too that I I voted against uh

1:20:21VO in in those uh those smaller uh

1:20:25meetings. Um and was very surprised that

1:20:27it it it passed and the group that I was

1:20:29a part of it seemed like it was the

1:20:31minority. Um specifically because of

1:20:34that technology that was unproven. It

1:20:36wasn't promised immediately. So it

1:20:38seemed like it was even uh with uh the

1:20:41previous provider Lime uh and it's it's

1:20:45unproven technology. I think there might

1:20:46have been even uh talk about uh AI being

1:20:50part of the the ability to understand

1:20:53whether it's on the sidewalk or not with

1:20:54that IR camera. Um but um yeah, we'll

1:20:58only see what uh what comes with this.

1:21:01Um but I wanted to also support that and

1:21:04to dismiss any further discussion of

1:21:07that. Um maybe it's our responsibility

1:21:09as commissioners as well when we hear

1:21:10that out in the community that says it

1:21:12is this you know technology like no it's

1:21:15not it's this specific thing it's not

1:21:17proven yet but it's it's also not been

1:21:19allowed um uh they haven't they haven't

1:21:23launched it yet and they didn't even

1:21:24give us a timeline at the time. Uh I

1:21:25wonder if they have since. Uh but that

1:21:28was for me uh what I had heard everyone

1:21:32else supporting them this uh this bid

1:21:35was it was going to increase safety,

1:21:38decrease sidewalk uh riding because of

1:21:40this promised technology that as of

1:21:42today we still do not have and to my

1:21:45knowledge we don't have a timeline for

1:21:46when this will will be. Thank you.

1:21:50>> I don't want to beat this horse but

1:21:51maybe that means we need to I I don't

1:21:53know what we did with line before. Do we

1:21:54have an annual review of their like

1:21:57there how I don't remember how long long

1:21:59a VO contract is but presumably if there

1:22:02are ideas out there. Um I think it'd be

1:22:04a great idea to have maybe an annual

1:22:06review review. One of the other things I

1:22:08remember was they said they were going

1:22:09to have like crash detection stuff on

1:22:1150% of their vehicles. Well, a do they

1:22:15are they going to do that and b when do

1:22:17they anticipate getting to 100%. Like

1:22:19it's a kind of an odd number to have,

1:22:21right? like half of our things will not

1:22:23crash.

1:22:26>> Do you want to respond to that? K.

1:22:28>> Um, I can say for kind of the lime

1:22:29contract and other things there, I

1:22:31believe it was a three-year contract.

1:22:33I'd have to double check. I was not as

1:22:34involved in this round of things. Um,

1:22:37but it is something that there are

1:22:38contractual requirements that they have

1:22:40to meet to be the sole provider. So,

1:22:42it's kind of the that's why we go

1:22:43through that procurement process to, you

1:22:46know, shape how we want to see

1:22:47microobility in the city. So there is

1:22:49contractual levers and hammers if we

1:22:51need them. So um I would like oh one

1:22:53other thing we kind of noticed with the

1:22:55VO um vehicles also is that because a

1:22:57lot of them have a sitting position

1:22:59there is a kind of higher degree of

1:23:00safety for those um where some of the

1:23:04crash types where you would see people

1:23:06kind of go over the scooters and such.

1:23:08So that's one of the things that was um

1:23:09appealing kind of from a safety

1:23:11component was you see a lot more of the

1:23:13seated kind of moped style going around.

1:23:15So

1:23:16>> we will see how that bears out and

1:23:19hopefully the fire department is

1:23:21enjoying that uh reprieve. So

1:23:25>> if I can make one more point, I

1:23:27periodically fantasize about getting

1:23:29myself a three- wheeled EV for winters

1:23:31cuz like I'm not riding a two- wheeled

1:23:33vehicle in February cuz I'm too old and

1:23:36I'm not that crazy anymore. Um,

1:23:40I wonder if there's some way we can

1:23:42generally advocate push for uh more of

1:23:45these things as three-wheel options cuz

1:23:48a that's massively safer year round. B

1:23:50it does let you get into at least

1:23:52marginal territory. Like if you're, you

1:23:54know, let's say it's raining again, it's

1:23:57raining and there are leaves on the road

1:23:58on the road. Those of us who are bikers

1:24:00know like I when I see leaves on the

1:24:02road, I essentially visualize banana

1:24:04peels. Um, and a through vehicle is just

1:24:08a lot safer. So, I don't know if there's

1:24:10ways we can

1:24:13ask VO to maybe like lean into that

1:24:16component a little bit because they do

1:24:17they did say they have a three-year-old

1:24:19option and and and you and those were

1:24:21pitched as, oh, that's great for people

1:24:23disabilities. Well, they're also great

1:24:25for people who don't want to fall.

1:24:28>> Yeah, it's my understanding that yes,

1:24:30there is a three- wheeled option. um the

1:24:32full fleet will be released into Grand

1:24:34Rapids in 2027 once the uh spring

1:24:37weather comes back. But but yeah, that's

1:24:39an interesting point that would probably

1:24:41increase RER ridership um in the winter.

1:24:44Definitely.

1:24:46>> I'm glad you brought that up,

1:24:47Commissioner Pelka, because yes, there

1:24:48we are not at full VO capacity yet. Um

1:24:52or hopefully I'm characterizing that

1:24:54correctly. Um, but there will be more as

1:24:57uh Lime is phasing out and VO is phasing

1:25:00in, if you will. Um, I think the other

1:25:03thing I'll bring up in in talking with

1:25:04Max about this, I know that there's been

1:25:07a lot of um a lot of people joining the

1:25:09access uh plan for VO and that there's

1:25:12been a lot of positivity around that

1:25:14model uh specifically. So, I know that

1:25:17that was one thing. Um, I did ask Max

1:25:19about some of the the Reddit threads,

1:25:21too. Um, and he he did tell me there's

1:25:23been a little bit of dissonance around

1:25:24what he's been seeing on Reddit and what

1:25:26he's been hearing in the community as

1:25:28well, which is actually uncharacteristic

1:25:30according to him. Um, so anyway, wanted

1:25:34to share that. Are there any other

1:25:36comments? [snorts]

1:25:40Okay,

1:25:41seeing none, then I will adjourn the

1:25:44meeting. Thank you everybody.

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