2026-10-20 - Fire Staffing Presentation to City Council

00:00I got a seat for her right here. All

00:02right. Uh good evening, counselors, and

00:04uh thank you for the opportunity to

00:06discuss the Framingham Fire Department

00:07GIS study. Uh tonight, I'll be

00:10co-presenting with uh Andrew Oaks. He's

00:12the president of Framingham

00:13Firefighters, Local 1652. And we're also

00:16joined by members of Local 1652's

00:19leadership team and my administrative

00:21team in the back. Uh this uh study was

00:24commissioned by local 1652 through the

00:27international association of

00:28firefighters to provide an independent

00:30assessment of our department's current

00:31operations, staffing, and service

00:34demands. I want to emphasize at the

00:37outset that I agree uh with the study's

00:40findings and recommendations.

00:43The report reinforces what we have been

00:44experiencing firsthand. As Frammingham

00:47continues to grow and emergency services

00:50demands increase, we must evaluate

00:52whether our staffing, facilities, and

00:56resources are keeping pace with the

00:57needs of our community. The study

00:59provides valuable independent support

01:01for the investments we need to make to

01:04maintain firefighter safety and deliver

01:06effective, reliable emergency services.

01:09Uh we'll provide a brief presentation uh

01:12highlighting the study's key findings

01:14and recommendations. Uh following the

01:17presentation, uh we'll welcome your

01:19questions and look forward to discussing

01:20how we can use the information to plan

01:22responsibly for the future and continue

01:24providing the highest level of service

01:27to the residents of Framingham.

01:29We have the study up. Could we go to the

01:31next slide, please?

01:35Thank you. Uh just some real quick facts

01:38uh about the study. Um

01:41this study was done uh from January 2019

01:46through December 2023. So we have uh

01:49just about five solid years worth of

01:51data. Um

01:54about 60,000 uh you can see 60,538

01:58incidents were analyzed

02:00uh and that included 93,945

02:04responses. Um the method was using GIS

02:08mapping in our run data. Um again I

02:12talked about five years worth of data

02:14and it was all five of our stations were

02:16mapped out.

02:19Next slide please.

02:23Uh some key findings uh from the study

02:26um Andy want to take over.

02:27>> Absolutely chief. So some of the key

02:29findings that were found when the study

02:31was concluded was that uh one the three

02:33specialty trucks for the Framian fire

02:35department are underst staffed per NFPA

02:371710 standard which is four firefighters

02:39per truck. We run three on those trucks

02:41right now. That is the uh ladder three

02:43tower one and rescue one.

02:45Uh the other things that was found was

02:48that uh the density of Framingham

02:49surprisingly is extremely high. Uh I

02:51know we had that moniker for the longest

02:53time. We're the largest town in

02:55Massachusetts, maybe the United States.

02:57Population per square mile. Uh so the

02:59NFPA looks at that as anything over

03:033,000 people per square mile should have

03:05at least six firefighters on the trucks

03:06in those areas. Anything over from 1,000

03:09to 2,999 people per square mile should

03:12have five.

03:13All sections of Framingham met one of

03:15those markers. That's a a huge issue

03:17obviously for staffing issues for us.

03:22And as far as the final stuff that was

03:24found, like I said earlier, this was

03:27taken from all the different data

03:29points, which is a big thing to point

03:30out is this is all facts. It's not our

03:32opinions here tonight. This is totally

03:34factfound.

03:38>> I think no, that's good. Next slide,

03:41please. Um, we're going to be using some

03:42words here, so we just kind of want to

03:44define them a little bit. Um, kind of

03:45building hazards. Uh, we talk about low

03:48h low hazard buildings. Uh these are

03:50single family uh buildings that we

03:52respond to. Um

03:55our our our guidelines are are uh the

03:58National Fire Protection Agency uh NFPA

04:02uh 1710. They define how we are supposed

04:04to respond. Um and and within their

04:08definitions are some lowhazard

04:10buildings. So a lowhazard building, a

04:12single family home, we're supposed to

04:14respond the standard is to respond with

04:1617 personnel within 8 minutes. a

04:18mediumhazard building. Um these are town

04:21homes, uh garden style apartments, uh

04:24strip malls. Um we're supposed to have

04:2726 personnel in 8 minutes. High hazard.

04:30These are uh high-rise buildings. Um at

04:35the college at uh uh up and down Route

04:389. Um and we're supposed to have uh

04:42these high-hazard buildings were

04:43supposed to have 39 personnel within 10

04:45minutes. Next slide.

04:52So this next slide is just a quick map

04:54of Framingham. It the red dots there

04:56represent the stations here in

04:57Framingham. Uh the orange sections are

05:00like I was saying earlier about the

05:01density. Uh this is why I wanted to show

05:03it is that's the area of anywhere

05:05between a,000 to 2,99 people in it.

05:08Anything that's the dark red is over

05:093,000 people per square mile. Uh, like I

05:12said, all of Framingham now has those

05:15factors where they need at least five or

05:16six firefighters on a truck. We're

05:18asking for four on a truck. So, I think

05:20we're making a bit of a concession

05:22there. Personally,

05:24um, the biggest thing here is we just

05:26want to make sure our department's

05:26prepared to respond to all these

05:28situations that are coming up. Uh, it's

05:30no longer just fires or medicals. We're

05:32seeing electric car vehicles and

05:33everything else coming through here. We

05:35have uh the buses that are coming

05:37through here now. what uh liquid propane

05:40>> hydrogen's coming in a few years, but we

05:42have CNG buses at this point right now.

05:44>> So,

05:45>> I think it is our responsibility to

05:47provide effective emergency responses

05:48regardless of what part of the city

05:50someone lives in though. Uh that's why I

05:52think having four on every truck is one

05:54of the biggest driving points for us

05:55here.

05:57So, one of the components that uh next

05:59slide please. Sorry.

06:02One of the components of the study uh

06:04discussed uh staffing um and uh the

06:08study uh surveyed um a few different

06:11data points. Uh what our current

06:13staffing and our deployment is. That's

06:16>> um our current staffing and deployment

06:18with NFPA standards.

06:21Uh we'll get to this part in in a future

06:23slide. uh phase two and ladder companies

06:25added to uh station two and then phase

06:28three and engine and deputy chief added

06:31to station one. Next slide please.

06:35Uh as I uh kind of just mentioned um the

06:38study had uh uh some recommendations for

06:41us and as you can see uh the slide here

06:44um it uh it goes through the different

06:46phases. Um you know the first phase is

06:48adding one person one more member to

06:51each of the to each truck uh to each

06:54apparatus that responds. We currently

06:56have eight frontline fire apparatus that

07:00respond to calls. Five engine companies

07:02uh two ladder companies and one heavy

07:05rescue. Um currently the five engine

07:09companies have four members on it. Uh

07:12the two ladder companies have three and

07:14the heavy rescue has three as well. Uh

07:16the recommendations from the study uh

07:19are uh just that phase one adding a

07:22fourth person to each uh to each

07:26frontline apparatus. Um and as we go

07:29through uh and again we understand that

07:31there is uh you know uh financial

07:33implications for this and that's why um

07:36you know the study had some

07:38recommendations on you know a phased

07:40approach and not just hey throwing this

07:43all at you at one time. It's a phased

07:45approach. Um, as you can see, phase two

07:48is adding uh firefighters

07:52uh uh to all the to all the pieces um

07:55and a ladder truck at station two. Uh

07:58phase three uh is is um again adding a

08:03deputy chief uh and um an aid to uh to

08:10each uh to station one and and station

08:12five. Station one is Route Nine. Um,

08:16station two is A Street. Um, station

08:19three is headquarters and Luring Drive.

08:22Station five is Conquered Street and

08:23station seven is Winter Street. Uh,

08:26Water Street, excuse me.

08:32>> You want me to keep going on this one

08:33there, Chief?

08:34>> Uh, yeah, next slide, please. I'm sorry.

08:38>> So, uh, this next slide describes, uh,

08:40response metrics through those phases.

08:42Uh, something I think is important for

08:43everyone to understand is there's a big

08:45difference between getting a fire truck

08:46to an emergency and getting enough

08:47firefighters there to effectively handle

08:48that emergency. When someone calls 911

08:51because their house is on fire, they

08:52don't need just a fire truck to pull up

08:54in front of their house. They need

08:55firefighters that can stretch hose

08:56lines, establish a water supply, search

08:58for trapped occupants, ventilate the

09:00building, and begin saniting that fire.

09:04Many of those operations need to happen

09:05at the same time. That's what makes

09:07staffing so important. When we look at

09:09these maps that will be coming up in the

09:11following slides as well, you'll see how

09:14deficient we are in getting firefighters

09:16to places in in the aotted time by NFPA.

09:19So the current slide here, you'll see

09:22our low hazards start at 25% of the city

09:24is covered by our current staffing where

09:26we can get 17 firefighters in 8 minutes

09:28to a houseire. If we add a fourth

09:31firefighter to every truck, that brings

09:33it up to 37%. I know some of you have

09:35seen the study. I've sat down with a few

09:36of you. I've showed you the active

09:38mapping where you can actually punch in

09:39an address through the study and you can

09:41see if your house is covered. So, uh,

09:45phase two, you see that it jumps to 68%

09:47by adding an additional ladder company.

09:49And then phase three or excuse me, 46%

09:53phase three jumps to 57% by adding

09:55additional engine company.

09:57Uh, medium hazards, it's 1% right now.

10:01It It's not good. I'm not trying to be

10:03an alarmist here. I'm not trying to

10:04scare anybody, but 1% of the city, we

10:06can get 26 firefighters there in 8

10:08minutes. That's a problem. Uh, by just

10:10adding that fourth firefighter each

10:12truck, you can get 16%. Which, you know,

10:1616% doesn't sound a lot, but it's a lot

10:17better than 1%.

10:19And as you add the ladder and the extra

10:21engine company in phases two and three,

10:23respectively, you get to 24 and 30%. Uh,

10:26you'll notice we didn't do a high hazard

10:27slide for the mapping. Uh, I thought it

10:29was too depressing personally. That's

10:31why I didn't add it. Uh because until

10:33you hit phase three, we don't even have

10:35enough firefighters to handle high-rise

10:37fire by FBA standards. Not saying we

10:39can't do it because we do it ever almost

10:41every day, but we just don't do it

10:44safely. Uh I was personally at a fire

10:47just a few years ago where we almost

10:48lost multiple firefighters. So it's

10:51something that's near and dear to me and

10:52it was at a high-rise fire.

10:57>> Next slide, please.

10:58>> You want to keep going?

10:59>> Y.

11:01So this is the mapping I was discussing.

11:03Uh you'll see on the left is our current

11:05staffing model. Uh anything in blue we

11:08can reach in eight minutes. You'll

11:10notice it's mostly eastern Framingham.

11:12Uh West Framingham and Knobscot and a

11:15lot of the South Framingham are left out

11:16of this unfortunately just due to the

11:18amount of firefighters we have on shift

11:20and where stations are located. I know

11:22the chief and assistant chief have

11:24mentioned adding a sixth station to

11:26Western Framingham at some point and as

11:27you can tell from the mapping is

11:29desperately needed. It actually comes up

11:31in the study as well. They do mention

11:32trying to find a a station for western

11:35Framingham. By adding that fourth

11:37firefighter, everything that's dark blue

11:39is the additional that you get. So, you

11:41cover a little more of Central

11:41Framingham and South Framingham as well

11:43as northeast Framingham in Saxonville.

11:45But, uh, Knobscot and West Frammium are

11:47still left lacking.

11:53And next slide, please.

11:58Medium hazard. Like I said, 1% it's a

12:01little depressing. It's pretty much

12:04right behind station 5. That's it. Uh

12:07with our current staffing model, uh 26

12:10firefighters in the city, it's pretty

12:11much everybody. We have 30 firefighters

12:13on shift, but one of them is a

12:14dispatcher. So, it's really 29

12:15firefighters that we have responding to

12:17calls. So, 26 is pretty much everybody

12:19going to that fire. Like I said, by

12:21adding that fourth firefighter, though,

12:22you can see the dark blue, it expands it

12:24quite a bit of what we can cover and get

12:25those firefighters there in the time

12:27that's needed.

12:31Next slide, please.

12:35>> So, this slide is why do we need four

12:37firefighters and why is that important

12:39to us? Uh

12:42the I discussed the uh the trucks that

12:44don't have four firefighters. So, the

12:45heavy rescue, why is it important for us

12:47to have four firefighters? The heavy

12:49rescue is responsible for our primary

12:51searching at structure fires. With three

12:54firefighters on the rescue truck, a

12:55primary search must be completed as a

12:57team uh of three firefighters. We have a

13:00rule of two in and two out that we must

13:02maintain integrity with each other. Um

13:06and it's two in two out. So you always

13:08you can't be alone. You must be with a

13:10with a another member. By adding the

13:13fourth member, our search can be

13:14completed 50% faster by breaking up into

13:17two teams of two.

13:21And no priority is more important on the

13:24fire ground than the safety of the

13:25firefighters.

13:26Life safety in period period. Uh why do

13:30we need four firefighters on on the

13:32aerial trucks? Uh tower one and ladder

13:343. They're responsible for forcible

13:36entry. How do we get into the place when

13:39it's locked? When things are are uh

13:41doors are locked and we are closed and

13:44we can't get in. They're responsible for

13:46ventilation of the building, making the

13:47interior more tenable and increasing

13:50victim's survivability.

13:52Ventilation must be coordinated effort

13:55with an engine company to ensure the

13:56fire does not grow. Again, we can break

13:58up into two person or two member teams

14:01and and accomplish things twice as fast.

14:06Just add one more thing to that too is

14:08uh I don't ride the rescue personally,

14:10but I do ride the tower, so I know truck

14:12work and it it's backbreaking work when

14:14you're on a roof cutting a hole,

14:15especially when it's snowy or icy and

14:17cold and windy. Uh my brother rides the

14:19rescue. Uh Janet, I know you did some

14:22training with my brother when we did our

14:23fire ops, and you know how intense it is

14:26to try to search. We searched a small

14:28apartment with you in Noval. Uh

14:30>> we thought we were going to die

14:31>> right now. We weren't going to let that

14:34happen.

14:35Now, think of a triple decker on the

14:37south side, though, where it's the

14:38rescue is doing the search and there's

14:40three of them and they have to search

14:42three different apartments.

14:44That's not fair to the residents of

14:45Fremium. I'm sorry.

14:49Uh, next slide, please.

14:55Uh, we just put this in here because,

14:56uh, these are some pretty, uh, big

14:57studies that were done, uh, kind of

14:59landmark studies for the fire service.

15:01Um these studies were done a few years

15:03ago but uh it still holds true today. Um

15:08the study uh shows that four

15:10firefighters uh uh can have to or

15:13firefighters complete 22 essential fire

15:15ground operations 25% faster than three

15:19firefighters. I'm going to say that

15:21again.

15:22Four fighters complete 22 essential fire

15:26ground tasks 25% faster than three

15:30firefighters.

15:32Time is money. Time is is life in our

15:35business.

15:36The study also found that every single

15:38task was completed faster, but

15:40specifically search was initiated and

15:42executed 30% faster with victims being

15:45removed from uh immediate uh dangers to

15:48life and health environments

15:50uh 27% faster. Ventilation was completed

15:5430% faster.

15:56Uh the the study also uh was it happened

15:59in Washington DC and they they did this

16:01study and it was uh and it concluded

16:03that ladder and rescue uh companies um

16:07they took 12 minutes longer to complete

16:09with a crew of three versus a crew of

16:12four.

16:13Next slide.

16:14>> Can I actually say one more thing on

16:15that, Chief? Once again, not trying to

16:18be alarmist here, but the chief just

16:20said 25% faster, 27% faster. That's

16:24time. When you think about that for

16:25somebody who's trapped in a house fire

16:27or someone who's, you know, having

16:30issues, that's a lot of time. Seconds

16:32feel like hours when you're in those

16:34situations.

16:37And that could be the difference between

16:38life and death for somebody by just

16:40adding one additional firefighter to to

16:42trucks.

16:45>> Next slide, please.

16:49>> Wrap up.

16:50>> Absolutely.

16:53So this final slide or no, excuse me,

16:55not the final slide, but this is just a

16:57conclusion from the study itself. What

16:59they found, uh, basically what they're

17:01saying is that Framm is understaffed for

17:04the fire department for a city of our

17:05size. Um, some of you have heard me say

17:07probably before, Premium is larger than

17:09the Burrow of Manhattan with square

17:11mileage. You know, so we have 30

17:14firefighters covering on paper 78,000

17:17people. Reality, we know it's more.

17:21Their recommendations are, and these

17:22are, like I said, recommendations from

17:23the NFPA, is four firefighters on every

17:25truck, look for that western station

17:28eventually, you know, add those

17:30additional companies so that we can

17:31properly staff our fire department for a

17:33city of our size. If you look at

17:35comparable cities to ours, Newton's and

17:38Walthams, they've got a lot more

17:40firefighters on the shift than we do,

17:42and they're doing a lot less calls than

17:44we do.

17:45That's significant. So, we've been

17:48staffed the same way since, I believe,

17:501993.

17:52>> 94.

17:52>> Yes. Since 93.

17:54>> I was born in 1987. I was six.

17:59>> Thank you for that presentation.

18:00Appreciate you taking the time and

18:01effort to do it.

18:02>> There's actually a couple more slides.

18:04>> Oh, I thought it was the last slide.

18:05>> So, we do we just have one more because

18:07we want people to to check the study out

18:09for themselves.

18:09>> Okay.

18:10>> Um Eddie, why don't you go here and then

18:12I'll I'll finish with the with the

18:14>> So, what are we looking for? It's pretty

18:16simple and straightforward. Uh local

18:181652 is asking the city council to allow

18:20the mayor and chief to sit down with

18:22local 1652 leadership to increase our

18:24minimum staffing from 30 to 33. Uh that

18:27can be done through overtime. Right now,

18:29we have enough firefighters hired that

18:31we don't need to hire someone right now.

18:33We can just do it by increasing our

18:34overtime budget a little bit. Uh this

18:37will allow us to staff all of our

18:39frontline apparatus with four

18:40firefighters. Additionally, we'd like to

18:43have the city council work with the

18:44mayor, Chief Duter, and myself to

18:47formulate a plan to implement the rest

18:48of the study for a reasonable and

18:50responsible timeline. I understand that

18:51the city's in a hard financial crunch

18:53right now. I don't expect things to be

18:54done overnight. It's a big ask, but it

18:57is something we do need to be planning

18:58for because we're already behind the

19:00eightball with this. You know, we should

19:01have been increasing our staffing years

19:03ago. So, and then to complete, you know,

19:07or continue work with the mayor and the

19:08city council to identify a site in

19:10western Framingham, possibly in the 990

19:12area for a sixth fire station. I

19:14understand that's a long-term goal. You

19:16know, that's not something that can be

19:17built overnight. Obviously, it can't be

19:18built in a year.

19:20five, six, 10 years down the road.

19:23But that would help with our response

19:25times in western Premium as well as

19:26northwestern Knobscott, which as you can

19:29see from those maps is a very neglected

19:31area for getting firefighters on scene

19:33in a reasonable time.

19:36>> All right, next slide. And I I I promise

19:39this is the last slide.

19:41>> No, that's okay. Uh I I I think uh uh

19:44both uh Andy and I and I wanted people

19:47to be able to touch and and look at the

19:49study themselves. Um we are always

19:52available for questions um

19:56at any time. I I carry my phone with me

19:58all the time except for right now it's

19:59in the back but Chief Schultz is keeping

20:01an eye on it. Uh we are always available

20:04for questions um and to answer. So, uh,

20:07with that link, uh, the Frammingham Fire

20:09Department, you can click on that link

20:10and and, uh, get the the study yourself

20:13so you can see it with your own eyes.

20:14>> And for anybody who's looking, this is

20:15in our backup material on our agenda

20:18item tonight.

20:18>> Also, you can find it on Local 1652's

20:21Facebook page. Not trying to plug our

20:22Facebook page or anything, but we do

20:24have it posted there as well for people

20:26to see. Um, one thing I will say is it's

20:28not very mobile friendly. It's more web-

20:30based, so you should use it on a

20:32computer to get the full experience. Uh

20:34all those maps are interactive though.

20:36Like I said, you can punch in your

20:37address. You can punch in your mom and

20:39dad's address, your grandparents

20:40address, whoever. See if the fire

20:42department can reach you in the time

20:43frame. And that mapping, the big thing

20:45to understand about that is that's best

20:47case scenario where all the trucks are

20:49in the station. We did 93,000 responses

20:53in 5 years. I think currently we're at

20:5560 something thousand for the last two

20:57years. So we are getting busier. The

20:59trucks are almost never in the stations.

21:02So best case scenario, that's what those

21:04mappings show.

21:06>> Thank you, Brian.

21:08>> Thank you. Um so I do I have some

21:11questions. Thank you for the report as

21:13always, you know, very good. Um but so

21:17you said um so in terms of um you

21:21mentioned indie calls are are you resp

21:24um speaking of responses to fires or all

21:27the calls that you get responding to

21:29like you know when people have have to

21:31go to the hospital respiratory failure

21:33whatever.

21:34>> Yeah. That that's all calls. Okay. That

21:36was all calls. Yes.

21:37>> Okay. Um because like you know with the

21:40fire definitely you need the four. And

21:42then the other thing is um so if you add

21:47um an additional person to what is it

21:51eight different

21:52>> just three counselor

21:53>> okay three okay so so it would be just

21:58what 12 people or just

21:59>> yes you have to hire 12 people but like

22:01I said it could be backfilled currently

22:03with overtime

22:05>> now I that's another thing so but if

22:08overtime is good to a point right but

22:11you still would need to have a like be

22:14looking to hire because service goes

22:16down if you overwork the people.

22:18Correct.

22:18>> Correct.

22:19>> And then um like in terms of money too

22:23over time is great for when you're

22:25making it but at the same time does it

22:26drain some of the money from hiring too

22:30and definitely the time. Okay. But still

22:33good good plan so far. um in terms of um

22:38where you feel um you need um the fire

22:42departments, right? I think the one you

22:44said over at 990 that's probably a good

22:46place too. But now do you have data that

22:49shows like where you guys have to

22:51respond to the most? Like let's say

22:53let's just say District 9 maybe there is

22:56a fire station

22:58>> over by Irving and Western A, right? So

23:01um I What are they staffed at? I mean,

23:04do you do you have a like a list of um

23:08data that shows where which districts

23:10that you go like how how much you're in

23:12each district?

23:13>> Yeah. Uh well, the heat mapping will

23:16show where the call calls come from and

23:18uh so uh district 9 specifically. Um

23:22that is fire headquarters and we have an

23:24engine company there with four people

23:26and a ladder truck with with three. U we

23:29want the fourth person on that. Um and

23:32uh some of a lot of our data has shown

23:35that um calls for service in the western

23:38part of of our of our community uh the

23:41Route 9 towards South Bro where um it's

23:45high density high-rise uh that has

23:48really uh had an uptick uh in in

23:53responses um over the last several

23:55years. Um and and those as we discussed

23:58those are kind of our high hazard

24:00buildings. Um

24:03>> yeah,

24:04>> because of just because of the density

24:05of the people and it takes us longer uh

24:08on Route 9. Um you know, when we have a

24:11fire, uh uh we respond,

24:14we have that station right on Route 9.

24:16They go with an engine company and a

24:18ladder company with the tower, but the

24:21second their backup engine company comes

24:23all the way from Knobscot.

24:25>> Um, it took me 30 minutes today at 8:00

24:30this morning to get from my office at 10

24:33Luring Drive to Water Street.

24:36>> 30 minutes. Now, I hit four trains and

24:38sometimes that happens. Um, but the

24:41train can't pull over for us. We got we

24:43can't get through on the train. Um, on a

24:47good day,

24:49state engine 7 that's in Knobcot takes

24:5113 to 15 minutes to get to Route 9. Uh,

24:55at 1,600, one of the 1600 buildings,

24:571,400.

24:59That's a good day. That's with no

25:00traffic. Um, and and that's kind of what

25:02we're discussing um now that the density

25:05and and and things like traffic are

25:08increasing. Our call volume is

25:10increasing, traffic is increasing, and

25:12it takes us longer to get there. in

25:14construction

25:15>> and and you know and and and I heard

25:17Saraki here um last week or the week

25:20before and I started counting up how

25:22many how many buildings that he was

25:24talking about and and how many

25:26apartments or how many units are in each

25:27building and it was 488 uh that he

25:31talked about that are either coming

25:32online have just come online are coming

25:34online or projected in the future and um

25:39you know that's going to put a

25:40significant demand on our on our

25:42resources. I'll just close with I mean

25:44the four firefighters and the teams. I

25:48mean that's kind of a no-brainer like

25:50the difference that it makes, but I'm

25:51glad that you guys broke it all down.

25:53Anybody can hear it, see it, you know,

25:55or whatever. Um that's that's very

25:58obvious, you know, very easy to

26:00understand the need for that like the

26:02two teams and this and that and how much

26:04more dangerous it would be with just

26:06three. Um and that even the small fire

26:09well I mean small in terms of not a

26:12high-rise fire but that occurred you

26:14know last what December or something in

26:17um in interfaith you know it was it was

26:20small in in comparatively but yet it was

26:24very dangerous

26:25>> very intense. Yes. very intense um

26:27>> and and you know rescuing multiple

26:29people out of there takes takes a lot of

26:32staffing to do that

26:33>> and there was you know loss of life and

26:36different things and fire you know fire

26:38person injured too um so definitely um

26:42you know it's good it's good this is

26:44very good it can't it's coming you're

26:47being proactive but also you guys have

26:50gone so long without it now do we know

26:54um this is the last thing though So you

26:57were saying that the the recommendation

27:01not just for Firmingham but every or the

27:02the requirement is like what 39

27:05firefighters at certain fires and things

27:08like that.

27:09>> Yeah, that's for a high hazard building.

27:11>> Okay. Yeah, that makes sense.

27:12>> We do understand that, you know, that

27:14that certainly isn't going to happen

27:15overnight. Um again, my goal as the fire

27:18chief is is to tell you what we need. Um

27:21and and how we get how do we get there.

27:24Um, and you know, I think that's part of

27:26me coming up here with with Andy is to

27:28discuss. Um, and again, one of the great

27:31things that we have is our collaboration

27:32together. Um, there's very few uh locals

27:36and management that that can talk like

27:39this. Um, we have a great team. Uh, we

27:42have a great group of firefighters. Um,

27:45we understand get that, you know, these

27:47are the recommendations. Some of them,

27:49you know, might not be uh able to

27:52happen. um just because it's you know

27:54it's a s significant ask um so you know

27:57we are conscious about that

27:59>> we may have to add a few more phases

28:01that's

28:01>> yeah yeah and and and again our hope is

28:03at some point that this will be uh you

28:06know a phased approach

28:07>> yeah great thank you

28:09>> miss long

28:10>> thank you Mr. Chairman, so this is uh a

28:13particular interest to me uh because I

28:16have felt that you've been under staff

28:18for a long time as some other

28:20departments have been. Um, and what

28:23really concerns me as a procurement

28:25officer that sent out bids on

28:27construction, when I've done checking in

28:29Framingham on contractors, they're not

28:32pulling permits because owners of

28:35certain properties on Conquer Street and

28:38over don't want anybody in from ISD in

28:41their properties. So, that leads me to

28:44think there's the building codes being

28:46violated. Electrical fires, which we're

28:48getting a lot of on the south side.

28:50That's why because who knows who's

28:52wiring what and if they're illegally

28:54being wired or if they're up to code. So

28:57I'm this is something I'm really

28:58concerned about and I think you need to

29:00be staffed properly because of what's

29:03going on with permanent. I have talked

29:04to the building commissioner on this

29:06because I had to check references on a

29:08couple different contractors. Same

29:10thing. The owners of the property. I

29:12don't want them in my house. They're too

29:14nosy. They want too much stuff. And I'm

29:16like you serious?

29:18>> So if we, you know, we have a lot of

29:21that going on. It's hard to check to

29:23know where if there's permits not being

29:26pulled for electrical work.

29:28>> Yeah, it it is tough to follow up. We do

29:30have

29:30>> work. We have a we have a great

29:32partnership with the building uh

29:34department as well. Um we're in constant

29:36uh contact. You know, one of my staff

29:38members back here, Deputy Chief

29:39Jingress, he's a fire marshal and he's

29:41constantly uh

29:4420 or 30 times a day talking to the

29:46building department. So, I'm I'm not

29:47faulting you or the building department.

29:49I'm just saying that if we have people

29:51that are wiring illegally,

29:53>> yeah,

29:53>> their houses because they don't want to

29:55be under the scrutiny of ISTD, they

29:57don't want to pay for permits. They

29:58don't want to have to build deal with

29:59building code. That's what you have. And

30:01it's primarily, it seems like a lot on

30:03the south side of Framingham that that's

30:05going on. And that concerns me. So, I

30:07think we really need to be funded um

30:10properly and staff properly to prevent

30:14Framingham being on fire. And I will say

30:17I have called the fire department

30:18because the other thing that's going on

30:19is I've had some of my neighbors calling

30:22because people are burning

30:24they're burning furniture in their

30:25backyard on their lawn.

30:29>> Jingress.

30:29>> Who does that? Who does that? Yeah.

30:33>> So I get called because they're afraid

30:36to call their neighbor because they've

30:38gotten into

30:40>> Yeah.

30:40>> altercations. Let's put it that way. So

30:43I'm like, "Okay, I'll call anyway and

30:44I'll get them over there." But I mean

30:46that I'm just horrified. It's not in a

30:48fire pit. This is just on the lawn in a

30:50very treed area. So I think we need more

30:54firefighters. I think 990 is a good

30:56location for another fire station. Um

30:59and I don't see why you can't redevelop

31:01the one on on Water Street, which is

31:03right behind my house basically. So, I

31:08thank you for all you do and I

31:10appreciate the difficulties you have and

31:11I definitely support funding and

31:14supporting the fire department to

31:16increase your staffing.

31:18>> Much appreciated.

31:18>> So, because I know firsthand what goes

31:20on with that,

31:22>> Miss

31:24Thank you, Mr. Chair. Gentlemen, thank

31:26you so much for coming. When I first saw

31:28this report, I was horrified. uh mostly

31:30because you right now cannot get to my

31:32house in uh four minutes and even uh

31:36when you go through stage phase three

31:39you still will not get to my house. So

31:40this I'm being very selfish but um I

31:45have a lot of concerns about West

31:46Framingham which I love this new West

31:48Framingham but um

31:52the area around 990 and the tech park if

31:56we could talk about that for a second

31:58because I think

31:59I don't have a crystal ball, but I would

32:01say that that area is going to see some

32:03changes in the next decade, 20 years.

32:06And uh

32:07>> you have somebody in the back who may

32:08have a crystal ball to that?

32:09>> Yes. Yes.

32:12>> Um

32:14does that area right now count as a

32:17medium hazard with all of the

32:18pharmaceutical and lab work that's going

32:21in on the tech park?

32:22>> So, some of them are medium, some of

32:24them are actually considered high

32:25hazard.

32:27>> 39 firefighters. Okay. Um,

32:31which then further pushes why a station

32:34over there would be important. Um, how

32:38often are you pulled into mass pike

32:40accidents?

32:41>> Frequently.

32:42>> And what happens when that h when that

32:44happens?

32:44>> Uh, if it's a car accident, depending on

32:46where it is on the mass pike, it kind of

32:47depends on which truck goes. Um

32:49everything from the 9 and 90 exit east

32:55would be the tower

32:56>> up until a certain point and they go

32:58west as well. So where we have to go

33:00into Southboro if it's before the exit

33:02but before Southboro we actually have to

33:04go into Southboro come around turn

33:06around. So you drive a mile and a half

33:08two miles up the mass bike westbound to

33:10come down eastbound. Uh then engine

33:14seven covers the rest area east and then

33:17the rescue. any accident that's on the

33:19Mass Pike, the rescue has to respond to

33:20as well, just due to possible

33:22entrapments and other things that might

33:23be needed with the tools they have on

33:24their truck.

33:25>> Right. The big just just one more thing

33:27on that. The big thing about the Mass

33:28Pike is when you go there, you're

33:29committed, right? There's no you got to

33:31go from one exit to another. So when we

33:34when you know, we we get a report of

33:36something, you know, a multi-car

33:38accident. It it it might take, you know,

33:40um two or three fire companies plus uh

33:44you know, a few ambulances as well. And

33:45then those those resources are committed

33:48to the to the mass pike u for for you

33:51know sometimes an extended period

33:52depending how to get on and off and we

33:54can use some different ways to get on

33:56and off but uh we don't have any extra

33:58secret ways to get on and off but uh the

34:00one you know nice thing about Mass Pike

34:02is um there is a billing mechanism. So

34:05when we do go to the Mass Pike we we we

34:07bill the Mass Pike um for services

34:09rendered on on the Mass Pike. one of a

34:11few communities that is able to um to

34:15build the mass pike for that.

34:16>> Okay, that's good to know. Um

34:21>> what happens about mutual aid on the

34:23west side? Do you use Southboro, Malber?

34:26So if if everyone is say there's a big

34:29accident on the Pike, but then there's a

34:31fire in Feeasant Hill and all companies

34:34are busy, how often do we use mutual aid

34:37on that side?

34:38>> As needed. Uh and certainly Salt South

34:40Bro um would would probably be our

34:43primary uh company to get there. It's a

34:45little bit of a long shot for uh for

34:46Malro to get there. Um again we had you

34:49know you know a multi- alarm fire at one

34:51of the highrises Marro would be coming.

34:53Um so Malro I mean uh South Bro comes

34:59and you know

35:01depending on how their staffing looks.

35:04Uh

35:04>> are they still volunteer? No, no, they

35:06have a full-time department, but and and

35:07we have an agreement within our district

35:09that if you go from one community to

35:11another, you staff your you staff your

35:13piece with four with four firefighters.

35:16Um, but depending, they could be on a

35:18call or two and they might, you know,

35:20they're going to give us what they what

35:21they have left, but generally the

35:23agreement is four firefighters to come.

35:25Um, sometimes if they're tied up on

35:27something, you might not get four from

35:29them.

35:29>> Okay, that's good to know. I as a kid, I

35:31remember hearing the bell for their

35:33volunteer. So

35:34>> yeah, I think uh they don't I'm not

35:35sure. They have a little bit of a call

35:36department still. Um so I don't know if

35:39you heard it. They got a new station. So

35:40they got rid of part of that old bell

35:41over there. It's everything's over text

35:43now.

35:43>> Oh well that's that's that's good too.

35:45>> That's ruining traditions.

35:46>> Thing I would like to point out about

35:48mutual aid too is the communities around

35:49us by asking them to send us four

35:51firefighters. We're absolutely draining

35:52their fire protection.

35:54>> We are surrounded by smaller

35:55communities. You know I I told you about

35:58you know comparable communities of

35:59Newton and Waltham. They have the

36:00Bostons, the Camidages around them. They

36:02can afford to send one or two extra

36:04trucks to their communities to help

36:05them. The communities around us can't

36:06afford to do that,

36:08>> right? There's some of them where they

36:09have to send firefighters from one

36:10station in their town to another one to

36:12get on a truck before they can come to

36:14Framm to send four firefighters.

36:17>> Okay. My

36:18>> delay is a response.

36:19>> No, it's it's it's it's a good point.

36:21Um, and my final question is, so we're

36:23talking about West, this potential

36:26station at 990 down the line. What sort

36:28of strategic planning are we doing right

36:30now? uh about

36:34meeting the needs and of what we're

36:37looking at for the fire department for

36:38the next 10 20 years. Is this what is

36:42the conversation we're having with the

36:43administration moving forward? I love

36:46strategic planning. I wish we did it

36:48more, but I this is something that is

36:50not just it's your li it's the lives of

36:54firefighters, it's the lives of

36:55residents and property and this is a big

36:58deal.

36:58>> Yeah. And I think that those

37:00conversations are happening, right? Um

37:02there's, you know, there's a regular

37:03conversation. The poor mayor has to

37:05listen to me. You know, I talk about

37:07this, you know, quite a bit. Um so there

37:09is a lot of discussion with him and and

37:11you know, he um whether it's with him

37:14and then and Sari um talking about where

37:16are we going, where is the city going.

37:18Um so I think that's one of the reasons

37:20that we're here today. This is this is

37:22kind of um you know maybe our first

37:24formal push out of our strategic

37:27planning and where we need to be and

37:29where where we need to be and again we

37:31talk about the phasing where do we need

37:32to be in one year 3 years 5 years 10

37:35years 15 years um so yeah there's a lot

37:38of that discussion going on um and I

37:41think that's why we're here today and

37:43and you know thankfully that you know

37:45the study came out and you saw it and

37:46you and you asked us to come present it

37:48and I think this is a a huge step

37:50forward would um because I think I came

37:52here, you know, last couple of years and

37:54I have discussed, hey, I think I need we

37:56need more firefighters. We might need a

37:57new station. So, I think we're there.

37:59We're getting there.

38:00>> Well, thank you. I really appreciate and

38:01I look forward to hearing more as u we

38:04continue on.

38:05>> Mr. Stephanie,

38:06>> thank you, Mr. Chairman. Um first, thank

38:09you, gentlemen, for this very

38:10collaborative, comprehensive

38:13approach. Um, in another life, seemingly

38:17forever ago, I had I had the pleasure of

38:19authoring the state EMS and first

38:21responder law, which led to Framingham

38:24being on the cutting edge of getting

38:26minimum staffing. And I'll give you a

38:28perspective that's a little bit

38:30different than your safety perspective.

38:31To follow up on what you were saying a

38:32moment ago, at the time I was, in

38:34addition to being a selectman, I was the

38:36state rep for Framingham and Ashley. And

38:39you can imagine the stark differences

38:42between staffing in Framingham versus

38:44staffing in Ashland. What I don't think

38:46people realize is it changes the entire

38:50approach to the way in which we you

38:53gentlemen approach your professional

38:55activity. And in Ashlin at the time

38:57there were some fires and literally they

38:59arrived and they watched the building

39:01burn. They don't do search and res uh

39:04search and rescue. they don't do any

39:06kind of invasive and in Framingham we

39:08stop the fire and we rescue people. It

39:11it's that stark of a difference in terms

39:13of where it is. So I appreciate that

39:15very much and in the staffing. Um

39:19I guess all I would say is I would just

39:21say Mr. Chairman, when this conversation

39:24is done, I would hope that we refer this

39:26to the finance subcommittee or put this

39:28on the agenda so we can dig into this in

39:31a little bit more detail in terms of,

39:34you know, next steps and where we are.

39:36>> Thank you. Anybody else? Mr. Cannon,

39:38>> just briefly, Mr. Chairman, thank you

39:40guys. And and I chief, I I agree with

39:42you. It's unusual in most communities

39:43that the leadership on the management

39:45side and the leadership on the union

39:47side can speak so collaboratively, not

39:49just behind the scenes, but in a in a

39:50formal setting like that. It's very

39:51rare. Uh, and it it speaks loudly and it

39:54says a lot. It's it knowing you and

39:55working with all of you as we all do,

39:57it's not surprising at all, but it's

39:58great to see. Um I'm hopeful that in the

40:01planning that that continues to happen

40:02that um we'll talk about and thank you

40:06for touching on mutual aid, Andrew, and

40:09how other communities have larger

40:11communities around them in in you know

40:14as you move east, but they they look to

40:15Framingham uh to fill those voids uh

40:18when they're in our neck of the woods.

40:21Um, I'm hopeful we'll be nimble in our

40:25planning as ADUs seem to be sweeping

40:28every community in Massachusetts in a

40:30way that uh I don't know that was

40:33forecasted initially. Um, I'm curious

40:37how question seven, if that passes,

40:39which will just lead to a lot more

40:41building and a lot more density in areas

40:44where it wasn't planned or zoned, could

40:46do the same. Uh I was very impressed

40:48with how the department uh and the team

40:50worked with the new battery storage

40:52facility as that project was um under

40:55development. Uh

40:58so as electric cars I just things that

41:01were things that we probably 25 years

41:04ago didn't think were possible are just

41:06so in the foreground now. Um and uh and

41:10I'm hopeful that a new station uh where

41:13it makes sense is is sooner, you know,

41:15sooner rather than later. I know we talk

41:16about it broadly, but um however uh we

41:19can meaningfully put I almost said light

41:23a fire under that which is probably the

41:24worst. I'll leave the comments there.

41:27Thank you team. Thank you for your

41:29collaboration and all you do for our

41:30community. Thanks Mr. Chairman.

41:32>> Thank you Mr. Wood.

41:35>> Uh thank you chair. Thank you guys for

41:37the presentation. Um really appreciate

41:39you guys diving into the details and and

41:42yeah starting this conversation. I know

41:45some of these kind of recommendations at

41:47one point in time I think were part of

41:49the last budget cycle before we or at

41:51least the ideal proposed budget that you

41:54know we would look to have and um had to

41:58be paired back given some of the

41:59financial situations within the city. Um

42:02I would be interested in hearing um uh

42:05two quick questions. you know,

42:09it would be great to bring um you know,

42:11do phase one and bring all the staffing

42:12up to four per per vehicle. Do do you

42:15have an order of priority within um th

42:18those those staffing requests? Because

42:21um I do think, you know, it's when we

42:25say 30 to 33, it's it sounds

42:28a little easier than to say 12 hire 12

42:31firefighters. Um though we can cover it

42:33with overtime. And then my other

42:35question is what does the process look

42:37like in regards to upgrades to our

42:40existing stations? Um, and how is that

42:43dialogue taking place if at all? And how

42:45do we I think do a better how do we do a

42:48better job of getting those kind of

42:49projects on the capital budget?

42:52You mind if I take this one?

42:54>> Okay. Yeah. So, uh, you know, the

42:56priority really would be staffing for on

42:58on each on each apparatus. Um,

43:04But but but do you distinguish between

43:05like when I when I look when I look and

43:07see raising tower one, raising ladder

43:10three, rescue one, do you do you have a

43:12priority list within that or is it it's

43:15just all or none?

43:16>> No, it's you know of of course we

43:18wouldn't uh you know say no to any sort

43:20of increase. Um and I think it would be

43:22preferable to when and we say and and

43:24when andy talks about you know 30 to 33

43:28that's per group. So everything we have

43:29to do is times four.

43:31>> Yeah. No.

43:32>> Yeah. And I just want to make sure that

43:33that's clear.

43:33>> No, 100%. I guess the reason I ask is,

43:38>> you know, if we say we're going to

43:40increase one fiscal this year, like

43:42let's find a way to fund one this year.

43:43Let's find a way to fund one next year

43:45and let's way to find a way to do that's

43:48>> let's break it up in a way we can

43:49actually get there.

43:50>> I would never draw the line in the sand

43:52and say no, I I don't want one. I don't

43:54want two. you know I you know giving you

43:56my recommendation but I think at the end

43:58of the day it's you know it it's you

44:00know we'd be very thankful and grateful

44:02for you know any any sort of increase

44:04>> I think if with viscus referred to the

44:06finance subcommittee I think at least

44:08for I'm not on that committee but it

44:10would be helpful for me to have that

44:11kind of laid out so that and I think

44:14maybe hopefully for others maybe gives

44:16them something a little bit more to act

44:17on but then yeah I guess the other

44:18question is around the the

44:22um the physical buildings within which

44:24you operate which as anyone who's been

44:26been into knows

44:28need work. They they need serious uh

44:30work. Um in some ways it's kind of

44:33embarrassing uh the living quarters.

44:35Well, not some ways it is embarrassing

44:36the the quarters we're asking our

44:38firefighters to work in and how do we

44:39make improvements there? Yeah, the real,

44:41you know, we've had a lot of discussions

44:42with the mayor. Um, in particular, you

44:45know, station one on Route 9 seems to be

44:48um, you know, it's a built in the 60s,

44:50even though some of the other buildings

44:51got built in the 60s, but they've had

44:53we've had some rehab going on. Um, and

44:55you know, Conquered Street's had some

44:56some real significant upgrades. We got a

44:59new roof in the building. We got a new

45:00parking lot. Um we we were part of the

45:02geothermal project over there and that's

45:05you know really made a huge difference

45:07um in that building and and the upgrades

45:09have really been appreciated. Uh morale

45:11is through the roof at that station

45:14literally uh in a great way. New

45:16kitchen, we got new kitchen, right? Um

45:19uh but yeah, I think you know the next

45:20one uh and Ann Andy can really talk um

45:23to this. I spent seven years at station

45:25one. um he is currently at station one

45:29and he knows the conditions at that

45:31station and and again our workforce is

45:33changing. Um you know uh when in 1968-69

45:38when station one was built um there were

45:40no female firefighters. Uh now we have

45:42three female firefighters and one is

45:44stationed there and it's big open dorms.

45:47um there's very little privacy there and

45:50uh so um there's you know there's no

45:52real complaints about it but there's

45:53there's a recognition that upgrades um

45:56to today's standards need to happen. um

45:59not on top of some of the electrical

46:00components in the building just weren't

46:03designed to handle um you know

46:05somebody's charging a cell phone uh you

46:07know and this you can see the lights dim

46:10you know um you know again it's it's you

46:13know the the firefighters do a great job

46:16um you know they'll they'll say things

46:17to me but they do a great job of

46:19maintaining the buildings um Jim Palini

46:21with facilities helps us out a

46:23significant amount um you know they they

46:25they clean the building every day um

46:28they live there. Um they clean it, they

46:30maintain it. So they do a fantastic job

46:32of that. But some of the building and

46:35that one specifically is really um at at

46:38end of life uh for for what it was

46:41designed for.

46:44>> Thank you.

46:46So, I basically Brandon brought up what

46:48I was going to bring up because I have

46:50been in pretty much all of the stations

46:52just because either take my kids there

46:54or now my grandkids and um I remember

46:57station two did with the roof you used

47:00to leave buckets under each section. So,

47:03that was sort of like your new roof that

47:04you got when you got new buckets. And I

47:06I just couldn't even like fathom how

47:09that that station stayed open. And you

47:12know, you look at seven and I mean I the

47:15the recliners are like the original like

47:18I I don't know how those guys do it

47:20there because it you know and they never

47:22complain you know they never you know

47:25and then you go to you know Andy your

47:27your station is um I mean is it like the

47:31wallpaper it's like the cigarette smoke

47:33like the it just it's like that shade of

47:35but you guys never complain. you you you

47:38know you walk us around when we come in

47:39to visit to the kids come in um and

47:43these are an issue and I mean you're

47:45you're talking you know um two fire

47:49stations that are you know I see them

47:52both really at end of life in in the

47:54sense um and I think that you know to

47:57sit up here and for us to all listen and

47:59anybody that's you know watching and

48:01everybody here is you know of course we

48:03want to keep you guys staff that you can

48:08do your jobs and not only keep us safe

48:10but keep yourselves safe and I think

48:13that this is a good first step. Um I

48:16know that that you guys put a lot into

48:19this report and I know Andy will you

48:21know I he every time you see him he will

48:25tell you about it and in case you miss

48:27something he'll you know he'll tell you

48:29something else that you didn't hear the

48:30last time. But I think that these

48:33numbers are, you know, they are

48:35staggering and I I I think that just by

48:38the sheer growth and, you know, to

48:40Mike's point about question seven, that

48:42could really change. Um, and you see the

48:44ADUs now, that is part of our topic

48:47tonight. Um, they are going up

48:49everywhere and you are adding um onto

48:53lots that weren't zoned that way. And so

48:56now we're finding ways and we even heard

48:58the governor. I do believe she said she

49:00wants 200,000 new homes across the the

49:03state and that's you know density is

49:05what they want. So these are all

49:08long-term things that I think that you

49:09know I think it's good that we're

49:10hearing this now and then um I think

49:14that I'd be in support of you know you

49:17know our our team up here to you know do

49:20what we can do to uh work with the mayor

49:22and yourselves. Um but I I think I speak

49:24for everyone too. I don't usually say

49:27that, but I, you know, in this

49:28situation, I think that, you know, we

49:31have to, you know, act on this and, you

49:33know, it's a good first step. So, thank

49:35you.

49:35>> Thank you.

49:36>> So, thank you. Uh, I'm going to take one

49:38comment from Zoom and then I'm going to

49:40end this session because we have other

49:41things we have to talk about, but I

49:42appreciate

49:42>> make one more point there, Mr. Chairman.

49:45>> Uh, two quick facts. Number one, calls

49:49since 1986 have increased 170%. Our

49:51staffing has decreased by 18%.

49:54Number two, I know everyone's kind of

49:55squirmish about hiring firefighters.

49:58There's a couple things that we've been

49:59working on to help with that. Uh, one,

50:02the chief has been applying for a safer

50:03grant through the federal government,

50:04which helps pay for hiring firefighters

50:06for last five years. But also, I've been

50:09working with Representative Priscilla

50:11Souza on House Bill 620, which would

50:14have state colleges that have dorms in

50:17cities help pay for the fire department

50:19because they pay for their own police

50:20departments, no problem, but they use

50:21the municipal fire departments for all

50:23their calls. And that's the place we've

50:24been going to a lot over the last 5

50:26years. So, uh, that's something that's

50:29also in the works.

50:30>> Okay. Thank you for that. That's a good

50:31point about the colleges. All right. I'm

50:33gonna take one one comment from Zoom and

50:35then we will refer this to finance

50:38subcommittee. Sarah Lever, you can talk

50:40for two minutes. Can you please state

50:41your name and address?

50:48You there?

50:54>> Last chance.

50:58>> Apologies. It was a technical error.

51:00>> Okay.

51:02So would you like to speak?

51:04>> No, I would not.

51:05>> Oh, okay. Thank you very much. Okay.

51:08Thank you both very much for coming in

51:09and presenting.

51:09>> Thank you very much.