2026-08-05 - City Council Environment and Sustainability Subcommittee

00:01[music]

00:15[music]

00:20[music]

00:26[music]

00:33[music]

00:39[music] Hi, it's Lear Malik. It's 8:03.

00:42I'm calling to order the environmental

00:44and sustainability subcommittee meeting

00:46of the city councelor. With me tonight

00:48is councelor Mary Kate Feny as well as

00:49councelor Ward. Um we um so

00:56let's start um

00:59with the agenda with the minutes. So I

01:05was looking through the minutes and

01:06there were quite a few last names that

01:09were spelled incorrectly

01:11um or including Shawn's who's here. So I

01:14apologize to you Sean that your last

01:15names have been spelled incorrectly. Um,

01:18so I can send to Marian the correct

01:21spelling of Diane's last name from the

01:23April meeting as well as Amy's last name

01:25from the May meeting. Um, but just there

01:29was a bunch of last name stuff that I

01:31wanted to

01:34um correct in both of those. So I would

01:37take a motion if there are not any other

01:39comments for the minutes um sort of

01:42pending the correct spelling of last

01:43names.

01:45uh motion to approve uh the minutes uh

01:48with knowing that the last names will be

01:51corrected for the record.

01:53>> Awesome. Are you guys okay with taking

01:56both for both of those dates? April.

01:59>> Yes. Sorry, I should have said the both

02:00dates. Um for AP, sorry,

02:04>> I wasn't at the May one, but I'm happy

02:05to take them together.

02:09>> Okay. Um, so it's for so approve uh the

02:12minutes knowing that the last names will

02:14be updated for the record for April 8th,

02:182026 and May 6th, 2026.

02:24>> Awesome. And is there a second? Thank

02:26you, Councelor Ward. And now we'll vote

02:29Mary Councelor Feny.

02:31>> Yes.

02:31>> Councelor Ward,

02:33>> yes.

02:34>> And I vote yes. So, I will send an email

02:38uh with the correct

02:40spellings. All right. Um, moving on to

02:44public participation. We do have a

02:46handful of folks who are as attendees.

02:48If there's anybody who would like to

02:51make a comment on anything that is not

02:54on the agenda, I

02:57um please raise your virtual hand.

03:06Seeing no hands raised, we'll move on to

03:09the decarbonization roadmap with Sea L,

03:13our Society sustainability coordinator,

03:16and I will turn it over to you, Sean.

03:18>> Thank you, Councelor Malik. I'm going to

03:20share my screen

03:23and

03:25see hopefully get this set up right.

03:30That look good.

03:35Um, so firstly, I want to apologize. I

03:37may get our today's a demand response

03:40day, so I may get a phone call, a text,

03:42and an email like very quickly if you

03:44hear I've muted what I can. So, we'll

03:46see if that comes up. But, um, I really

03:48appreciate the opportunity to share our,

03:51um, you know, a little bit about our

03:52municipal decarbonization roadmap. And

03:55so really this is our high level

03:57approach uh or plan to transition

03:59municipal facilities away from fossil

04:01fuels in connection with our uh net zero

04:04emissions target of um 2050. So firstly,

04:08quick shout out to the department of

04:09energy resources who gave us they

04:11awarded us technical assistance to

04:13develop the roadmap and then also

04:15there's so many municipal uh and school

04:18team members who contributed to this

04:19from you know uh helping me collect data

04:22going with me on site visits to collect

04:24information on equipment um and then

04:26also reviewing plan drafts and schedules

04:28for decarbonization projects. So that

04:30was very much appreciated. So, like I

04:33said, I'm going to go over some

04:34highlights, but I I know um you know, we

04:36included the report as part of the

04:38agenda. So, if you have any detailed

04:40questions, happy to get into those, too.

04:42So,

04:44um what is our municipal decarbonization

04:48roadmap? So, really this is like I said

04:51plan to reduce uh our emissions and

04:54eliminate the use of on-site fossil

04:56fuels um using a zero overtime approach.

05:00And really what that means is uh the

05:03report goes into this in different

05:05sections, but trying to find those

05:08natural decision points or trigger

05:10events in the lifetime of a building and

05:12its systems to intervene and say, you

05:15know, this is a great time to install a

05:16heat pump system or look into a heat

05:19pump, hot water heater. Um, you know,

05:22classic example is you have an aging

05:24boiler system that needs to be replaced.

05:26it's a great time to look at, you know,

05:27a full buildingwide heat pump system.

05:30Um, I also highlight that development of

05:34this roadmap was a key requirement for

05:36the city and its application to the

05:39Department of Energy Resources Climate

05:41Leader Program. It was really the last

05:43uh requirement we needed to meet. Um,

05:45and so we were able to, you know,

05:47complete our full application, complete

05:48the road map and submit that before the

05:50June deadline. So really excited about

05:52you know hearing back from DOER on next

05:54steps. So the road map includes um

05:58couple key things that I'll highlight.

05:59So includes a survey of our largest

06:02buildings and um emitters of greenhouse

06:05gases. Identifies opportunities to

06:07replace fossil fuel equipment. Considers

06:10opportunities for solar PV across

06:12buildings. uh and then also has a

06:15long-term, you know, vision for um

06:18tackling our fleet and transitioning it

06:21to zero emissions. Um like I said, it

06:23uses that zero overtime approach for

06:25incre uh incremental electrification.

06:29Um I think another key thing I'll

06:32highlight here is that this plan um

06:34especially if you've looked through it

06:36really doesn't have details on cost.

06:38It's it's really high level in the sense

06:40that we're looking at the types of

06:41systems that can best fit with

06:43buildings, but it's really a next level

06:45of analysis to, you know, you're going

06:47to need like a a building level study to

06:50get into the the weeds of, you know, for

06:53example, a specific type of heat pump

06:55system, whether that's actually feasible

06:57for a building. Um, you know, starting

07:00to design that, getting cost estimates,

07:02rebates, and other incentives that may

07:04be available to offset those costs. So

07:07all that to say just because it's not

07:09identified within this roadmap that

07:10doesn't mean that we're not planning for

07:12it and that it's not happening and in

07:13fact we have some of that work underway

07:15now for for example we're looking at

07:17that for the Lauren arena right now. So

07:20that's to come. This is kind of a first

07:22step and it's also the scope that

07:24department of energy resources

07:25identified for this process.

07:29Um so um the report begins with a look

07:33at our mun municipal emissions baseline

07:35both for our facilities and our vehicles

07:38and it starts I guess right off the bat

07:40the data that you're seeing on the next

07:42this slide and the next slide are is

07:44from uh fiscal year 2022 which is the

07:46baseline for the climate leaders program

07:49that we have. Um so it doesn't reflect

07:51any recent changes that we made. Um we

07:54have 75 buildings included in our

07:56analysis. I guess I don't know how

07:58common that is, but I know that we went

07:59way above what the minimum requirements

08:01were for inclusion of facilities. I

08:03think that was like a big priority for

08:05us. Eventually, when we go to apply for

08:07a climate leaders grant after we get

08:09designated, we wanted as much of our

08:10building portfolio to be included as

08:12possible and eligible for funding. So,

08:15that was kind of, you know, it was

08:16really critical for us. But you can see

08:17some of the metrics here. over 2 million

08:19square ft of space, um 85,000 million

08:23BTUs of natural gas use, and 14,000 uh

08:27megawatt hours of electricity use for

08:29that year. And of course, 8 over 8,000

08:32uh metric tons of carbon dioxide

08:34emissions.

08:36Um on our fleet side, uh and if you add

08:39these up, I know that I know that the uh

08:41city council finance subcommittee just

08:43had a great report on composition of the

08:45fleet. These numbers won't match exactly

08:47because when we pulled this data, it was

08:50at at a different time probably than

08:52when the numbers were, you know, were

08:53pulled for for that fleet report. Um,

08:56but it's roughly the same. You know,

08:57around 330 vehicles are covered. Um,

09:01about 180,000 gallons [clears throat] of

09:04gasoline, 170,000 gallons of diesel, and

09:073,000 metric tons of carbon dioxide

09:10emissions, equivalent emissions.

09:15And so the kind of the meat of the

09:18report really starts on the building

09:20side. Talks about which are our largest

09:22facilities that present the greatest

09:24opportunities for emission emissions

09:26reductions just based on the sheer scale

09:28of you know what they contribute in

09:30terms of emissions in our portfolio. So

09:32the list that you see here represents

09:34about half of the city's building

09:37emissions. uh starting with the high

09:39school, Walsh Middle School, DPW

09:41headquarters, Barbari, Farley, Cameron,

09:44McCarthy, and Harmony Grove. And so

09:47given that these represent such a

09:48significant share of um the the city's

09:51emissions, they also have kind of more

09:54dedicated narratives in the report that

09:56dive a little bit more into detail than

09:59um you know, the rest of the building

10:00portfolio. I think one thing I do want

10:03to highlight uh just because these are

10:05like the biggest emitters, it by no

10:07means means that they're the least

10:09efficient um or you know not as

10:12maintained. A lot of these buildings are

10:15you know very efficient especially for

10:18their like energy usage intensities. It

10:21just clearly these are some of the

10:22biggest facilities we have in our

10:24community. So just to kind of highlight

10:25that at the front.

10:29Um so we'll we'll talk about those a

10:31little bit as we move forward. But um

10:34another key element of the introductory

10:36section of the report highlights what

10:38our decarbonization pathway will look

10:41like based on the recommendations that

10:43are included in it. So starting from our

10:462022 baseline um the chart and the graph

10:50below show what that journey will look

10:52like for us. Right? So by 2050, we're

10:56going to um you know have reduced our

10:58emissions from on-site fossil fuels by

11:00100%. Adopt zero emission vehicles

11:03across light duty and heavy duty

11:05applications and also make some

11:07significant headway and um reducing our

11:10energy use intensity and uh our our you

11:13know total emissions. Um, and then you

11:16can see kind of like a no

11:18decarbonization

11:19uh scenario where we approach things

11:21using kind of the same type of equipment

11:24um and fuel types versus a

11:26decarbonization an aggressive

11:28decarbonization um uh scenario where

11:31we're making significant improvements

11:33over time across buildings and fleet.

11:38And this was one piece of critical

11:40feedback I got from the sustainability

11:42committee was describe the acronyms in

11:45the report, which when you're in the

11:46weeds and trying to get the report done

11:48for the deadline, you don't necessarily

11:49think about, but I think it was a very

11:52um appreciated suggestion and one that

11:55uh right now DOE is actively reviewing a

11:59report. So, I'm very hesitant to like

12:01submit an updated version while they're

12:03still going through that process. So, I

12:04think we're gonna wait for that to

12:05conclude and we want to have like a

12:07version 1.01. 01 fixing some of the

12:09things with tables and and describing

12:11some of this stuff in more detail. But I

12:14figured I just take you guys through

12:15very quickly. You know, you'll see GSHP

12:18acronym for ground source heat pump. Um,

12:21a lot of times called geothermal. Many

12:23people will argue incorrectly, but it's

12:25kind of just the common name people will

12:27use. Um, that's using, you know, energy

12:30from the ground to heat and cool

12:32buildings. Um, you'll also see VRF and

12:35you might hear that for, you know, heat

12:37pump systems, which stands for variable

12:39refrigerant flow. So, this can

12:41technically be for a ground source heat

12:44pump system or an airsource heat pump

12:46system. Most commonly, it's with

12:47airsource heat pump systems. Um, really

12:50the key idea is you have one outdoor

12:51unit and, uh, one outdoor unit that

12:54connects to multiple indoor heads. Um,

12:57so they're all working off of one

12:58outdoor system.

13:00uh ducted air source heat pumps. So you

13:03can think especially for smaller

13:04buildings you might have like you know

13:07uh an outdoor condenser and then you

13:09could have a combined furnace and AC

13:13system. A lot of times you can replace

13:16those two pieces of equipment and have

13:18the air flow through the existing duct

13:20work and you know you're able to

13:21decarbonize the facility that way. And

13:23then a couple more um a heat pump

13:26packaged rooftop unit. really it's just

13:29like one piece of equipment that sits on

13:31the rooftop that has all the equipment

13:33you need regarding like it has the

13:35condenser it has you know just a

13:38packaged uh heat pump unit and then

13:40finally uh mini split um which is just

13:43you have one outdoor unit and then you

13:45have one indoor head and this is most

13:47common in like residential applications

13:49you'll hear about mini split heat pumps

13:50a lot so um hopefully that was helpful

13:54I'm sure you guys are familiar with a

13:56lot of these but just throw it out there

13:57because the sustainability committee

13:59gave me a good uh uh good remark on that

14:02that might be confusing for people

14:04looking at the the tables.

14:08So now diving into um you know one of

14:12the bigger sections of the report is

14:13really talking about what are those high

14:15impact buildings and what would we what

14:18does the road map kind of contain for

14:20guidance on how we approach them. So

14:24listed uh Walsh Middle School was listed

14:27second in the report. It's um you know a

14:30little over 200,000 square ft has

14:32approximately half a million kilowatt

14:34hours of electricity use per year and

14:37also 8,000 million BTUs in FY22 for

14:40natural gas for heating. Um, it's

14:43actually one of the few steam heating

14:45facilities in the district, which makes

14:46it a priority for electrification, you

14:49know, both from a emission standpoint,

14:51but also from a maintenance perspective.

14:53Um, you know, people who can maintain

14:55steam systems, it's uh I don't want

14:59probably not the best phrase, but it's

15:00kind of like a dying breed, right? Like

15:02there there's less and less steam

15:03systems over time. So, it's just from a

15:05purely like a maintenance perspective,

15:07it's great to get off of that in the

15:09near future. Um and so the Framingham

15:11public schools in partnership with the

15:12city, they've been very active in energy

15:14efficiency. We've worked on steam trap

15:16replacement projects over time, pipe

15:18insulation, refrigeration upgrades, um

15:21even more upgrades through uh an energy

15:23performance contract we did for lighting

15:25and building controls. But ultimately

15:27kind of moving from the building

15:29characteristics looking at a proposed

15:30strategy um the the road map targets in

15:34a somewhat near term um a kind of a a

15:38trigger of between 2028 to 2033 for

15:42replacement of that system. And what's

15:44targeted is a geothermal heat pump

15:46system. And there's a lot of factors

15:47that go into that. And ultimately like

15:49as we dive further into the details in a

15:51more defined study for that building,

15:53you know, we'll see how feasible that

15:55is. But you know there is a lot of space

15:57there for you know if we wanted a

15:59geothermal well. So that was one of the

16:00the key considerations as we looked at

16:02that. Um also the site has really good

16:05opportunity for solar although the roof

16:07is in need of replacement. So that would

16:09be done in kind of coordination with the

16:10timeline for the roof. Um and you can

16:13see based on kind of this high level

16:15proposed strategy if we look at the

16:17electrification journey over time you

16:20see that you know magnificent drop in

16:23emissions associated with you know

16:25switching out the the heating and

16:26cooling system there.

16:30Um so that's one facility. The report

16:35covers many buildings. And uh another

16:38criticism I got from the sustainability

16:40committee which was very appreciated was

16:42the table that we have in the report is

16:43not sorted by the end of life trigger.

16:46So it kind of is just all over the

16:48place. So we'll be updating that. This

16:50is sorted by like what the timeline is

16:52for replacement. So you can see this

16:54first group of facilities that are in

16:55light red um are you know would be

16:59slated to be done by 2035.

17:02Um the next grouping would be by 2040

17:05which spans into the next slide. Um and

17:08then finally the last group you know we

17:11would try to target by 2050. And I I'll

17:13say, you know, this isn't a very a very

17:15very aggressive kind of uh timeline

17:18given the number of buildings here. The

17:20fact that um you know, of course, we're

17:23also not talking about cost included

17:24with this is going to be a huge part of

17:26the the the puzzle, but eventually these

17:28are all buildings with systems that are

17:30going to reach end of life or have

17:32already reached end of life and we're

17:33going to need to do something to repair,

17:36replace, upgrade that equipment. And so,

17:40you know, I think the idea is here, how

17:42can we how can we use these natural

17:44decision points in the lifetime of a

17:46building to step in and implement

17:49technologies that are going to get our

17:50clo get us closer to our goals. Um, so

17:54let me actually I'll go back for a

17:56second. I'm sorry. I know there's a lot

17:58to like kind of absorb looking at these

17:59charts. I'm happy to dive in. Um, I will

18:04probably instead of calling stuff out

18:06here, I feel like I've been going a

18:07while. So I'm going to move on to

18:09remaining slides. So um and then on the

18:12fleet electrification side there's

18:14there's also a lot of work to be done

18:16here. Um so the way that the report

18:19covers this is really a highle summary

18:22of uh breaking up you know our timeline

18:25to 2050 in three segments and starting

18:29off from 2026 to 2030 really focusing on

18:32our light duty vehicles. And so a key

18:35reason for how this is structured is

18:37really what the availability in the

18:39market is for EVs right now. You know

18:42there's wide availability for all sorts

18:44of you know uh SUVs you know smaller EVs

18:48that we can look at. So in in working

18:51with our consultant and DOER, the focus

18:54was let's start swapping out our light

18:56duty vehicles and the next 10 years

18:59after that we're going to see a lot more

19:01medium duty vehicles coming online and

19:04we're seeing that already from Ford, you

19:05know, Chevrolet, a lot of the large

19:07truck manufacturers. Um heavy duty is

19:11still like right now it's still very

19:13early for a lot of different uses.

19:15That's going to pick up. Um, but

19:17eventually we're going to see the the

19:19biggest opportunity for heavy duty swap

19:21outs as we get closer to 2050. So those

19:23that last kind of 10-year period. So

19:26that's one of the key reasons for why,

19:28you know, we're approaching light, then

19:30medium, and then heavy duty. Um, and uh,

19:35I guess I'm just seeing if there's

19:37anything else to kind of highlight here.

19:39Um oh I I'll mention too not included in

19:42this is the school bus fleet just

19:44because of how recent that coming within

19:46kind of uh FPS management um has

19:50happened and so separately we're

19:52actually working on a study for that

19:54fleet and also uh electric

19:56infrastructure needed for that and it's

19:57mentioned in the report too.

20:00Um I'll highlight in the appendix

20:02there's a couple of really great tables

20:04that go through every single facility

20:06highlight you know what the existing

20:08space heating system is what would be

20:10you know what we'd look at for that

20:12domestic hot water and also solar PV

20:14potential

20:16and then we have another table that

20:17gives more of a visual overlay so that

20:20you know you can kind of see how things

20:21are planned out and we'll look at

20:23because it spans multiple pages it's

20:25kind of hard to get the full picture I'm

20:27trying to think through a way we can

20:29display this uh you know you can see

20:31everything together and kind of see that

20:33timeline.

20:35But I think um that being said, I just

20:37want to highlight really what our next

20:39steps are. So like I said, we've

20:41submitted this as part of our climate

20:42leaders application and we're waiting to

20:44hear back from DOER. They shared some

20:46initial questions which we which we

20:47answered and so we're kind of hoping

20:50that you know they'll in the next couple

20:52weeks we might get some just preliminary

20:54information back about where we stand.

20:56Um, I already mentioned too that like we

20:58already have some edits that uh we're

21:00planning for the report to make it more

21:02readable and I'm sure you guys will have

21:04some suggestions or questions that will

21:06further uh help us improve that. I think

21:09the next major crucial step is and and

21:12I've already had some great discussions

21:14with um with our our CFO Brian about

21:18integrating you know the recommendations

21:21from the roadmap into the capital

21:23planning process moving forward. So, we

21:25have some active projects in

21:26development. For example, you know, we

21:28have the expansion of the geothermal

21:30project which can benefit the Farley

21:31building. Um, we're I mentioned a study

21:35we're doing at the Lauren Arena. So,

21:36like we have things that are in the

21:38works, but we'll also need to continue

21:41doing those like deep dives into our

21:43buildings. Uh, you know, working with

21:44Eversource on studies of electrifying

21:47our buildings. So, that's that's kind of

21:49one of the immediate things we'll

21:50prioritize based on on this road map. Um

21:55and then I highlighted before um

22:01that uh a fundamental part of the road

22:04map is you know this is an overtime

22:06approach right so I think one of the

22:09benefits for it being high level is that

22:11it's going to allow us to update it over

22:13time not just as maybe our priority

22:15shift but also technology is going to

22:17change as we get closer to 2050 that

22:19might change how we approach

22:20decarbonization of buildings and so

22:23built into the climate leaders program

22:25at least every 3 years we'll be updating

22:28this roadmap uh both with our progress

22:31but also you know if there are changes

22:33in our approach so really I see this as

22:35a living document like immediately we're

22:38going to be doing some updates but I

22:39think over the long term this is built

22:42into the climate leaders program that

22:43we'll be updating this over time and

22:46then last thing I guess is just I I see

22:48that also as like birectional like I

22:50think we'll be updating this as we're

22:52integrated in the the capital planning

22:54process, but also the capital planning

22:56process is going to feed into, you know,

22:58how we look at the roadmap moving

22:59forward, too. So, I think with that

23:02said, I'll stop there. Um, but I'm happy

23:05to take any questions um or talk more

23:07about any specific parts of the map I

23:10didn't cover.

23:11>> Awesome. Thank you so much. Um, will you

23:15stop sharing your screen, Sean? Um, I do

23:20not have any questions to start off. So,

23:22councelor Feny or councelor Ward, do you

23:24either of you have questions?

23:26>> I do. Um, so first off, thank you Sean

23:30for doing this and um I I do want to

23:33read the report through again and see if

23:35there's any other suggestions for you.

23:37But this does give me pause that uh 2050

23:40is the end goal. Uh cuz like I'll be 68

23:44years old [laughter]

23:46and I'm not a patient person. So, you

23:49know, you just answered some of my

23:51thoughts uh just at the end. Um cuz

23:54Framingham is not very good at

23:55maintaining its buildings. So, I was

23:58going to ask and and was really would

24:00encourage about having this be more in

24:02the capital plan so that we actually get

24:05it done. So, my question is what happens

24:08if um we get behind right. So I I think

24:13you know I would love to be more

24:14ambitious but I am one person and I am

24:17not the city of Framingham.

24:19So what happens if we get off track?

24:25>> So it's a great question. I think with

24:27climate leaders it's still very early in

24:29their process. Uh we recently I attended

24:32um you know to have regional meetups

24:34every once in a while and um at their

24:36most recent one they talked a little bit

24:38about like this reporting process and

24:40it's kind of like still in development.

24:42I think that

24:44compared to green communities this will

24:46be much more hands-on moving forward as

24:49to whether there are specific penalties

24:50for hey you said you were going to this

24:53project was going to be done at this

24:54building in 2027 and you didn't do this

24:56right. I I don't know that there'll be a

24:59specific penalty for it. I'm sure

25:01they'll consider it as they're awarding

25:02grant funding that like, hey, we want to

25:04see more progress here. I think by the

25:07same token though, and I I definitely

25:09appreciate like I would love to have an

25:11accelerated um more accelerated timeline

25:14than even what's listed here. But also

25:18it's tough because the report doesn't

25:20identify costs but in the back of my

25:21head as we're going through scheduling

25:24like even just sheer like capacity

25:26internally to manage the projects having

25:28all these like schools potentially

25:30within the same time frame is really a

25:32juggle of like let's try to spread

25:34things out so that this is more

25:36manageable. Um but you're right. Yeah.

25:41I think I think that's the other point

25:43too. We had a lot of front-loaded

25:44projects when we got our draft version

25:46of the report and there were there was

25:49the the internal capacity cost but then

25:52also okay if we're showing doer that our

25:55plan is to do all this in the first 10

25:57years and we're not able to do it right

26:00like I think I I think that's like the

26:03benefit of being able to update this

26:04over time. if we're able to advance even

26:06quicker, um, then I'm 100% on board with

26:09like, let's start accelerating some of

26:10this stuff and move it up rather than

26:12have it closer to 2050.

26:15>> Yeah. No, I I like how it has to be

26:16every 3 years because, as we know, all

26:18know technology is changing so fast. So,

26:20I have two questions about two things

26:22currently going on. So, we're updating

26:24the pumping stations as you know. Um,

26:27the ones that are currently or have been

26:29updated, are they updated to current

26:33standards for decarbonization, are they

26:36will they have to be retrofitted down

26:38the line or have we taken care of those

26:42needs with the pumping stations? Do you

26:44know?

26:45>> Yeah, I think for the most part they

26:47have. I I think so. One one area that is

26:51I think is going to be behind for a

26:53while and this is not a Framingham spit.

26:55This is just generally like industrywide

26:57for like emergency backup. Typically,

26:59you're going to have natural gas or or

27:02um I mean technically I I don't know the

27:06uh full details on this, but I think for

27:08certain emergency generator

27:09certifications, you're supposed to have

27:10like delivered oil um for because like

27:14you know if there's something with a gas

27:16line, right? Um so having that local

27:19fuel storage is really important for

27:20that. So I think for some of the pump

27:22stations, right, that's going to be and

27:24even buildings that's going to be an

27:25inherent limitation. Um, you know, there

27:28may be some gas equipment that that has

27:31like recently been installed, but for

27:32the most part, and I know this from

27:34visiting a lot of these pump stations, a

27:36lot like the overwhelming majority of

27:38new equipment are heat pumps. They're

27:40just easier to maintain, easier to

27:42deploy. So it's like that's the

27:44direction we're going. We might have

27:46some like smaller gas systems that have

27:47been deployed as you know we've moved

27:49forward but I think in that scale

27:52they'll be easy to update over time too.

27:55>> Okay. My last question is about 188

27:57conquer street. So I know that you have

27:58asterisks everywhere about because you

28:01can't base you know what's going on now

28:03because it's like opened like a tin can

28:05right now with all of the work. Do you

28:07know cuz I don't know the answer to

28:08this. what is being done to that

28:12building so that it complies with this

28:13plan so that you know it's done. Um

28:18do you do you know of like what's

28:20happening there?

28:21>> Yeah. So from like an energy perspective

28:24uh there's there's a lot of great work

28:27that's going to help that building out a

28:28lot. So, at the get- go, that's an all

28:30electric building. Um, uh, for for

28:33better and somewhat for worse, because

28:35like some of that heat is provided by

28:37like electric resistance. And so, as

28:39it's updated, not only is the building

28:42envelope going to be dramatically

28:44better, which is going to help reduce

28:46the overall energy consumption, but also

28:48some of those rooftop units, some of

28:50them are relatively new. I believe a

28:52couple of the the rooftop units are

28:53staying, but other rooftop units will be

28:56upgraded with, you know, heat pump

28:58equipment, right? So, I think that being

29:01said, you know, there could be some

29:02additional opportunities there, but

29:04working with um you know, with Jim, um

29:07you know, to as that project has been

29:09moving forward, there's been a close eye

29:11to like how can we make how can we

29:12prepare this building for next steps?

29:14And then also I'll say like that

29:16building was also included in the

29:18thermal engineering study we did that

29:20included city hall police station. So

29:22that also helped influence as things

29:24have moved forward like how can we best

29:26prepare that building and a lot of the

29:28work's been done thankfully because it's

29:29it's all electric. So we're very happy

29:32about that.

29:33>> Good. I'm just I'm just making sure that

29:34what we're working on right now is not

29:37messing up this plan. Right. And just my

29:39final comment is you know I know that

29:41we're focused on just some of these

29:42tried and true things. I'd love us to

29:44explore some rooftop gardens. I think

29:46that that will also help uh you know for

29:49a myriad of reasons. Uh but just to add

29:52that into the toolbox, if you will.

29:54Thank you again, Sean. I really

29:56appreciate all this work.

29:57>> Thank you. Actually, one quick uh edit

30:00to myself is on uh 188. I believe the

30:05backup generator is likely going to be,

30:07you know, gas, oil, right? But like I

30:09said, I think that's pretty consistent

30:11across, you know, buildings and even in

30:14communities where fossil fuel use isn't

30:15allowed, there's always the exception

30:17for generators um to have that. So, just

30:19to throw that out there.

30:22>> Awesome. Councelor Ward, do you have

30:25questions? Go for it.

30:27>> Just a quick uh follow-up question

30:28because I thought Councelor Finey

30:30brought up a good point with the

30:31question about the the pump stations. So

30:34I take your point that you know there

30:36are backup generators that um are

30:38required you know just to you know if if

30:41there was an emergency where they didn't

30:42have access to you know electricity or

30:44or gas or whatever that there's an

30:46on-site fossil fuel but uh mechanism and

30:51then you reference kind of the the heat

30:52pumps which I assume are your you know

30:55is how the buildings themselves are are

30:58heated or cooled but is the machinery in

31:00in in those buildings h how how Is that

31:03traditionally powered? Is that gas

31:05powered? Is that electrically

31:07electrically powered?

31:09>> Yeah, typically all those pumps, motors,

31:11like that's all electrically powered.

31:13>> Okay.

31:13>> Um, that's awesome. Yeah, I think like

31:17I'm trying like I know for generators

31:19this is I'm not talking about like the

31:21fuel source for generators, but like for

31:22instance, if you have equipment that

31:24needs to be able to run cold start, you

31:26might have like a block heater on it

31:28that is uh heat like that element might

31:32have some fossil fuel like directly

31:34powering it whether you know oil or but

31:38uh yeah no uh the overwhelming majority

31:40of that equipment is electrically

31:41powered.

31:45Okay, I appreciate that um insight. And

31:47then my my other question,

31:51I'm trying to recall, you know, looking

31:54at the the the five-year, you know,

31:58capital plan and and I tried to go find

32:00it quickly on Budget Central and

32:02couldn't, you know, locate it, which I

32:03think is I I swear more of a problem

32:07with Budget Central than it is with me.

32:09But um if I if I found that document

32:14like are these kind of projects like the

32:16the heating and cooling systems already

32:18included in that kind of 5-year plan or

32:21is this something that's like we need to

32:23get to that point?

32:26I um

32:29I think I think I know like exactly what

32:32you're talking about. I'm not sure that

32:34that 5-year plan for the most recent

32:37budget cycle was in like incorporated,

32:40but it's something that I've been

32:41working closely with the the finance

32:43division about like as we move forward.

32:46Uh you know, like I said, we we had a

32:48like preliminary discussion and

32:49preparing the report of like how are we

32:51going to start integrating this? I think

32:55>> I mean I know I know for like the the

32:56biggest buildings, the schools, it

32:58doesn't necessarily show up on our plan.

33:00it's more their plan, per se. But, um,

33:05>> yeah, I guess, you know,

33:07>> no, I I guess I'd say a lot of this is

33:09there there's so many like competing

33:11priorities in terms of roof replacements

33:13and, um, I think I I'll say like for the

33:16schools, right? A lot of this is going

33:17to show up as part of AC upgrades.

33:18That's kind of what happened with

33:19McCarthy Elementary, especially as

33:22weather gets hotter, that's going to be

33:23more of a priority for schools. So, it's

33:25like I think these these improvements

33:28will be built into a lot of other

33:30projects that are being planned by the

33:32school department on the city side. Um,

33:35so I think if you were to look now, you

33:37might not see some of that detail, but a

33:41lot of this is like, you know,

33:42replacement of boilers, that type of

33:44thing. Um it's just kind of like getting

33:46getting involved early at an early stage

33:49to you know make sure that the type of

33:50equipment chosen is heat pumps or you

33:52know efficient alternatives.

33:55>> Yeah. Yeah. I guess my concern is is

33:57whether it it specifically says heat

33:59pump or electrification or not on the

34:01plan. Is the replacement of boilers is

34:04the replacement of systems itself

34:07included on the plan. But, you know,

34:10anyways,

34:12>> I think council ward that's a great

34:13point about how that's integrated and

34:16you know, we'll be looking at that

34:19again. Council will be receiving that on

34:21November 1st. We receive the

34:25um capital plan. So, yeah, it's just

34:29around the corner.

34:32>> Yeah.

34:33>> Hey, you know, don't rush it.

34:35>> Don't rush. It's still summer. It's

34:37still summer. Um, okay. Thank you, Sean.

34:40I don't have any specific questions

34:44um

34:45for you and I appreciate and I would

34:48just say maybe that the sustainability

34:50committee, it wasn't criticism. It was

34:52like helpful additions that they offered

34:56you.

34:56>> Yeah, I said that out of joking.

34:58Absolutely. By no means. I was looking I

35:00gave them it was like that very crash

35:02course of like, "All right, guys. we're

35:04just going to flip through the report

35:05and I'm going to talk about the

35:06different sections. So there I mean just

35:08doing that was helpful to identifying

35:10like this is confusing. So

35:12>> and is there a deadline that we're going

35:14to hear back from DOER in terms of the

35:17climate leaders? It sounds like there's

35:19been some questions there's back and

35:20forth. There's communication which is

35:22great but is there a

35:24notification deadline?

35:27So,

35:29I I'll be upfront and say I think when I

35:31do find out I I might be under strict

35:33orders not to to indicate like whether

35:36we're fully all set until like there's a

35:39press, you know, the state side they do

35:41all their press releases and things like

35:43that. I'll say that um we might be

35:45hearing back on our application just

35:47like kind of full whether it's they're

35:49done with their assessment and probably

35:51the next couple weeks. Um, and also

35:54their initial questions really were just

35:56kind of clarifications and it was kind

35:58of all said. So, I think we're in like

36:00really good shape.

36:02>> Awesome. All right. Well, thank you very

36:05much. I unless there's no further

36:09comments or questions, I'm ready to move

36:11on to Framingham Gross Food, the next

36:14item on our agenda. Um, so Sean, thank

36:19you so much for being here. You're

36:20welcome to stay. Um but uh you also

36:24don't have to. So um and now I will

36:31Okay. And now

36:33>> I was just extending a second thanks to

36:35Sean.

36:36>> Oh, okay. Gotcha. Um so now I want to

36:40turn it over to Alison and Carrie. Um

36:44and for on behalf of Premium Gross Food,

36:49>> right? Um, thank you guys. Uh, my name

36:52is Allison Stag. Um, I've been a

36:55resident of District 8 for 14 years.

36:58Just looked that up today. Um, I'm so

37:00glad to be joining you guys, uh, tonight

37:02as the director of Framingham Grows

37:04Food, which was formerly known as

37:06Transition Framingham. Um, we really

37:08appreciate you inviting us to

37:09participate in your subcommittee meeting

37:11to talk about our goals and how we might

37:12collaborate. So, I just want to spend a

37:14couple of minutes providing a quick

37:16overview of our priorities and then

37:18we're looking forward to hearing your

37:20questions. Carrie's here to help

37:21dialogue with me about your ideas and

37:23suggestions. Um, and really want to

37:26spend as much time as we can just

37:27talking to you guys. Um, so if that's uh

37:31appropriate, then I'm just going to

37:33share a few few minutes of remarks here.

37:35So, um, if you, uh, are following al

37:38along on the handout, you received as

37:40background material, I'm going to speak

37:42to just a few of the points on the first

37:44page, um, under what we do, which are

37:47the main areas of activity that we're

37:49currently focus focusing on to advance.

37:51>> Sorry, Allison. Um, do you want to share

37:54screen? Do you want me to share?

37:56>> There's only a couple of bullets. I

37:57mean, you don't you you could you it's

38:00up to you guys. You can pull it up if

38:01you want, but it's not I'm just going

38:04I'm just going to say sort of some

38:06provide a little color to some of those

38:08bullets there. So, it's up to you.

38:09Whatever you think is best.

38:12>> Okay.

38:15All right. Why don't you keep going

38:16then?

38:16>> Sounds good. [laughter]

38:18Um, so, um, as I was saying, I'm just

38:21going to provide a little bit of

38:23information about these four main areas

38:24of activity that we're currently

38:26focusing on to advance our mission to

38:28grow food and build community in

38:30Framingham.

38:32So, uh, the first way that we are

38:34working on that, a primary goal we have

38:36as Frammingham Grows Food is to promote

38:38and celebrate and support all of our

38:40local community gardens that currently

38:42exist here in town. Um, there's some

38:44really amazing and really beautiful

38:45community gardens in Framingham, but

38:47they all are kind of independent and

38:49there's really no one place to go for

38:51information or a list of them or how to

38:53get in contact. So, we want to fill that

38:55gap first of all just by serving as a

38:57hub or an umbrella organization that

38:59really brings those separate gardens

39:01together into a network. Um, there are a

39:04lot of advantages we believe in having

39:05that kind of network. For example, we'd

39:08like to help coordinate resource sharing

39:10among and across community garden sites.

39:12We'd like to support the leaders of our

39:14local community gardens by bringing them

39:16together to share resources and ideas

39:18and to problem solve. And we also want

39:20to be an advocate for community gardens

39:22in city hall and bringing those concerns

39:24and needs forward. Um we also are hoping

39:27um to serve and support our local

39:29community gardens by bringing volunteers

39:32to to work on um garden workdays and

39:35larger projects that really increase

39:37access to locally grown food in our

39:39community. And my last example on this

39:41point is just that we hope to continue

39:44collaborating to seek funding for

39:45improvements at different community

39:47garden sites which we've done

39:48successfully with CPA funding in

39:50partnership with parks and wreck at the

39:52um for improvements to the Pratt Street

39:54community garden. So that's the first

39:56bucket of activity our existing

39:58community gardens in town. Um, the

40:00second area, second priority for us as

40:03Framingham Grows Food is to advocate for

40:05the development of new community

40:06gardens, especially for residents and

40:08neighborhoods whose needs are not

40:10currently being served by the existing

40:11gardens around town. So, our work in

40:14this area really took off a couple of

40:15years ago when the first uh round of CPA

40:19funding became available in 2022. Um, in

40:22partnership with the agricultural

40:24advisory committee, parks and recck

40:26department, planning and community

40:27development, um, several other city

40:29stakeholders, we were awarded a $40,000

40:32grant for a design project for possible

40:34new community garden sites at two

40:36city-owned parks in South Framingham.

40:39And we organized that project around a

40:41series of three neighborhood meetings um

40:43to ensure that any future garden was

40:46responsive to the needs of the community

40:47and especially the neighborhood it would

40:49be located in. And we really believe

40:51that that emphasis on community outreach

40:54and engagement is essential in creating

40:56more community gardens in Framingham in

40:58the future. So looking ahead, we're

41:00looking forward to collaborating with

41:02parks to take the next step with this

41:03project and to seek additional funding

41:05to advance it to the next phase.

41:08A third priority for us as Frammyham

41:10Grows Food sort of shifts from the

41:12traditional community gardens where

41:13people have separate plots to these more

41:15communal uh collective types of food

41:18growing spaces. So we've worked on this

41:21in the past in several ways including um

41:24in the past we've partnered uh with

41:25Green Abundance by Design to install an

41:28edible public food forest garden at Open

41:30Spirit. We helped to install a garden

41:32planter box in front of the Mclliff

41:34Library to showcase the uh seedling the

41:38seeds that are being offered inside. Um

41:40and we've helped to plant and maintain

41:42gardens with after school uh kids

41:44gardening programs at both Hoops and

41:45Homework and Pelum Apartments. And we

41:48helped to build a a raised bed at the

41:50Pelum Lifelong Learning Center when it

41:51was when it opened a few years ago to

41:53support that program. So looking to the

41:56future, we we want to continue these

41:58kinds of community- based garden

41:59partnerships and we see a great

42:01opportunity uh in the future and moving

42:03into working um with school gardens as

42:06well and advancing school gardening in

42:08Framingham.

42:10The final area I just want to speak

42:11briefly to um the final goal we have as

42:14Framingham Grows Food is to inspire more

42:16people to start gardening and to keep

42:18gardening by providing education and

42:20support for all gardeners in our

42:22community. Um, one example from the past

42:25as our past as transition Framingham

42:27that we're particularly proud of, uh, in

42:292016, we partnered with the Framingham

42:31Public Library to establish the

42:33Framingham Seed Lending Library, which

42:35now has locations at both branches and

42:37in the bookmobile. And over the years,

42:39we partnered with the seed library to

42:41host a variety of workshops, which is

42:43one of the things we'd like to uh start

42:46doing as soon as next year to begin

42:48offering workshops open to the public at

42:50different community gardens um and other

42:52garden sites around town. And just my

42:55last example here is one of the things

42:57that we're most excited to carry forward

42:59from our past as transition Framingham

43:01is actually its longest running annual

43:04event, which is um the garden tour. So,

43:07you guys are all invited to join us uh

43:09for our 15th annual uh Framingham

43:12Vegetable Gardens Tour, which we're

43:14excited to host on Saturday, August

43:1629th. It'll be from 9:00 a.m. to 12:45

43:19p.m. And so I'll just wrap up by saying

43:22um I'm looking forward to talking with

43:24you guys about how we can work together

43:25on some of these goals, both how we

43:28might collaborate with this subcommittee

43:30and the city council generally, but also

43:33how we might connect with the citizens

43:35in your district and the needs and the

43:36opportunities that you see in your

43:38district. So um thank you for

43:42hearing that intro. Now I'd like to hear

43:44from you guys. Awesome.

43:48Thank you so much. I guess I'll start by

43:50asking, you know, coming here to the

43:55legislative body, is there an ask that

43:59you have of us as the legislative body?

44:04>> It's a great question. Um, Carrie, do

44:07you have any initial thoughts on that?

44:11I

44:12I think that I think that we are uh open

44:15to what that looks like. I was actually

44:16going to ask you guys when you've had

44:18these conversations with some of these

44:20other local groups, what are the kinds

44:22of ways that you see yourself

44:23collaborating with community groups like

44:24ours because I was also curious like

44:27what what in what kinds of ways could we

44:29partner and have some ideas about that

44:31come up talking with the ad committee or

44:33energize Framingham or some of the other

44:34groups that you've had in? Um maybe

44:37there's some ideas from that

44:38conversation.

44:40>> Well, and I would also just add like

44:43when Mary Kate Feny was mentioning those

44:45rooftop gardens, of course, my first

44:47thought is that we should be planting

44:49vegetables and herbs and things people

44:51can eat in those rooftop gardens. and

44:54that, you know, I think we're uniquely

44:57situated as an organization to help

45:00contribute to those projects and to help

45:02both help push them forward, but also as

45:05the potential group that can help

45:07organize, maintain

45:10um and potentially even manage those

45:14those roof puff gardens. And so again, I

45:17mean, we're speaking about

45:18hypotheticals, but I do think that there

45:20has to be something in place to see

45:22those kind of projects move forward,

45:24right? Otherwise, I think they're the

45:26kinds of things that get built and then

45:28they um they die and [laughter] then

45:31like no one no one keeps them going and

45:34running and thriving. And that's just so

45:35important for a sustainable community to

45:38see those projects through, right? To

45:40have that thread. Um and I think that

45:43we're in place to do that. So, I I see

45:45that there's space for collaboration

45:47between us and and the city.

45:51Does that make sense?

45:53>> It does. Um I guess to answer Allison

45:56your question about other committees,

45:59the agricultural advisory committee, for

46:01example, is the statute or the ordinance

46:05that established them is sort of

46:07inconsistent with what powers they have

46:10via the state. So, they ask that that be

46:12reconciled. That's a legislative

46:14decision that we can do to reconcile

46:17that. For example, right, um when keep

46:21Framingham Beautiful came, they asked

46:23specifically for an ordinance about

46:25shopping cart um return policies. So,

46:31sort of the specifics of things like

46:33that. Um, I guess maybe it would be a

46:35question about is there particular

46:37zoning requirements or expectations

46:41um or in some of our um like design

46:47guidelines

46:48like I know that it's come up um to have

46:52bike

46:54um parking bike parking in some of our

46:58like in within design guidelines. So,

47:02um I guess those are some examples just

47:05to respond to that. So, yeah, for sure

47:07continued conversation. I see both other

47:09counselors have unmuted themselves,

47:11which I'm assuming they have comments or

47:13things that they want to add. So, I'll

47:15let councelor Ward go first because um

47:18councelor Freeny went first last time.

47:19So,

47:20>> yeah, it's just a very quick one

47:21because, you know, I don't I don't know

47:22if necessarily it's a it's a zoning

47:24thing. Maybe it is. But it did get me

47:26thinking like so often our planning

47:29board is looking for ways to um have new

47:33developments, have green space, have

47:35community elements to them. And have

47:37have the two of you spoken with our our

47:39planning board about like can this be

47:41one of those asks that we do we make

47:43more of uh when there are new

47:45developments and new um uh housing

47:48complexes that are in the works. Um, you

47:51know, often it's as council Malik

47:53alludes to, it's trails, it's a park,

47:56it's, you know, and not this maybe

47:58shouldn't replace those types of things,

47:59but can it be in tandem? So, yeah, it's

48:02I wasn't kind of, you know, have you had

48:05this similar conversation with with the

48:08planning board would be an interesting

48:09question. Yeah, that's uh so I have not

48:11spoken with the planning board

48:13specifically, but this is a conversation

48:14I've had with different uh city leaders

48:17over time, including former city

48:19councelor that I had this conversation

48:20with about what we could ask of

48:22developers. Um without naming names,

48:25there actually uh are developments in

48:28Framingham that have proposed offering

48:30community gardens to their residents and

48:32then in practice have not actually

48:33followed through. That's on our radar

48:35right now. And so like that's uh to me

48:39uh

48:41kind of uh backhanded way of saying like

48:44let me get this through. Oh by the way

48:46I'm not going to actually follow through

48:47on that. And again residents

48:51not necessarily knowing who to ask for

48:53help or where to go with that. So that's

48:55again without getting into the weeds,

48:58I'd love to talk with you offline about

48:59it more. We can like try to be a voice

49:03and an advocate for that is

49:05>> Yeah, that'd be a great kind of thing

49:06for us to know about and do some,

49:10you know, muck raking about.

49:12>> Got it. That is a great uh Yes, I should

49:16check what district I'm thinking of and

49:18that would be a good suggestion.

49:21>> Awesome. Councelor Feny, did you have

49:23questions, comments?

49:25>> Yeah. So,

49:27I I love what you're doing and and I

49:29went to your meeting uh back in June,

49:31which was just fabulous. Uh and I was

49:33thinking of you as I was starting to

49:35pick my tomatoes. The onslaught is about

49:37to begin. Um and this is close to what

49:40um councelor Malik asked, and I'm just

49:42going to ask it in a different way.

49:44>> How can what is how can we reduce

49:47friction in expanding gardens? M

49:50>> so for example um you know you got that

49:54design grant right and I think that

49:57added time on to it do you need a design

50:01grant every single time you do a

50:04community garden or okay you don't so

50:08like what else can we do to reduce the

50:11friction so that you can do what you

50:13would like to do

50:15>> that's an interesting question I wonder

50:17if you if you might identify do Do you

50:20see the friction between residents not

50:23disagreeing about things or do you see f

50:25friction at a different point because I

50:27might answer it differently depending on

50:28>> Yeah. So, I don't I don't mean it like

50:30um resonance versus resonance or there's

50:32anger, but it's just kind of like um um

50:37blocks, right? Like things that might

50:40slow you down or that that that's a

50:42roadblock that gets in the way or um is

50:46there

50:48is there is it a permitting thing? Is it

50:51something like that? Mhm. I

50:53>> I I'm really curious because you know I

50:54know that you've been focused on Bates

50:56and Roosevelt and you've been doing

50:58great work planning that. Um so I guess

51:02my thing was do you have to do that for

51:03every single I mean I do believe you

51:05need to talk to the community and get

51:06community buy in.

51:07>> Yeah.

51:08>> But having to go through the design and

51:11the CPC

51:14I mean you could still go to CPC to get

51:15money to build these things but I'm just

51:17trying to reduce the amount of steps I

51:20guess is probably another way to say it.

51:21totally understand. So, um, for the

51:23design study, the first grant that we

51:25got from the CPC, I will say that, um,

51:28part of the, uh, logic and the strategy

51:30as a, at that point all volunteer

51:32grassroots group was to, um, try to

51:35figure out how to cultivate

51:37relationships with the right city

51:38departments to be able to uh, have these

51:42conversations be um, smoother in the

51:44future. So at that point we hadn't

51:46didn't transition Framingham did not

51:48have a relationship with parks and wreck

51:49and we said we'd like to talk about

51:51building gardens and they said what? So

51:53that took time. That was a process that

51:56was about the designs, but it was really

51:57about investing in um uh building

52:00rapport with again city leaders to to

52:03say you can trust us and we're going to

52:04follow through with this and you know to

52:06to figure out um

52:08>> uh how to do these kinds of how to do

52:10this kind of work which ended up being

52:12an incredible amount of work which is

52:14part of what pushed us organizationally

52:16to shift from where we were as

52:18transition Framingham to what we see as

52:20a uh much more grownup and sustainable

52:24organ organization that's really capable

52:25of doing these things. So I think the

52:27friction was partly uh that our goals

52:30were far outsized to our capacities that

52:33point organizationally and it really it

52:36was an incredible experience. We learned

52:38so much but it really hit home that we

52:41needed to kind of um bring a different

52:44level of professionalism to these kinds

52:47of projects if we want to work with the

52:48city. Right? So every project 100% does

52:51not need a a design grant. Um, but that

52:54was part of our way of um getting our

52:58foot in the door and starting to build

52:59those kinds of both relationships with

53:01the city and um with neighborhoods. It's

53:04uh also looks very different. So, so you

53:06know, if we're going to look at building

53:08a community garden on city property,

53:11that's often parks property, could be

53:13conservation land, it could be land in

53:15other departments. So, that's kind of

53:17one uh that'll send us down one path. uh

53:20when land might be made available on

53:22non- city property, uh I could see a

53:24completely different process with a land

53:26owner that wanted to offer a piece of of

53:29what they have um to share with

53:31residents. Uh there's a community garden

53:33behind, for example, um Waterview

53:35Terrace uh is one of the apartment

53:37buildings on Route 9 and kind of in West

53:39Framingham. And so they um managed to

53:42develop a community garden uh several

53:44years ago for their residents and it's

53:46actually just off their property on the

53:48Sons of Maryland behind them. So that

53:51kind of relationship, you know, it's a

53:53different conversation than say working

53:54with parks or conservation um to go

53:57through sort of the city process to look

53:59at expanding gardens. And we're open to

54:01all of those conversations, but we

54:03learned it's not as is not as easy as we

54:06maybe thought it was in the beginning.

54:08And I do think that it can be expedited,

54:10but it also I think there's a lot of um

54:13groundwork to lay as we kind of unfold

54:16this. Making sure that any community

54:19garden that we build uh that it has a

54:22base of residents in the neighborhood

54:24around it that want that and that are

54:26going to participate in it and keep it

54:27going, you know. So, we want to we want

54:29to cultivate that kind of community um

54:33engagement either way. I I totally

54:36appreciate your early days and you

54:37wanted to prove that you know you guys

54:40are responsible adults. Um I just I

54:43would ask that if you could think of

54:45that moving forward about

54:48what is something that we can we can do

54:52um cuz the three of us are not shy uh to

54:55help you do what you need to do. Um so

54:59if something comes up I I I just would

55:01like you to think about that again. um

55:04just trying to give you a smoother way

55:07to make those connections to do the work

55:10that you need to do because I think it's

55:11fabulous. So, and I appreciate you

55:13sharing your time with us today.

55:21>> Awesome. I don't have any other

55:24questions. Um although I'm curious if

55:28you're applying in this CPC cycle

55:31upcoming, do you have anything? And

55:34>> we do not currently have plans to apply

55:37for a grant in this CPC cycle.

55:40>> Okay. Um,

55:43>> cool. Well, not cool, but thank

55:45[laughter] you for the update.

55:47>> Um, highly engaged in that in previous

55:50years, but again, we're we're uh very

55:53focused right now on getting to the

55:55point where we're able to um engage in

55:58these projects in a really big way. And

56:00so, um, that's going to be our focus for

56:02the next 6 months or so, uh, to get to

56:05>> it. It is a big deal. I had a friend who

56:07was on the board of the Watertown

56:08Community Gardens, and I mean, they just

56:12did your like bullets one and two,

56:14right? Like maintain existing gardens. I

56:17don't even know if they were um,

56:21developing future gardens so much, but

56:23like that's that was their whole thing.

56:25Um, and it was a lot of work. So, I

56:28definitely appreciate you guys and I

56:29appreciate you coming late night um and

56:33joining us. So, thank you.

56:35>> Thank you. Thanks for having us.

56:38>> All right. And moving on in our agenda,

56:43councelor Feny, do you have any updates

56:46on the tree ordinance?

56:48>> I do. A meeting.

56:49>> Awesome. Maybe

56:51>> I do. Uh no, it's great. It's great. Um,

56:54so I had nothing to give you cuz it's

56:58just a bunch of we're working through a

57:01lot of things. We had a meeting and it

57:02was phenomenal. Um, we've brought

57:04together members from the Conservation

57:06Commission, the Sustainability

57:07Committee, Energize Framingham,

57:10uh, and we just really talked through

57:14what we'd like, what everyone would like

57:15to see. And Rebecca now was also with

57:18us, who is a great source and wealth of

57:20information.

57:22And what we really uh came up with is

57:25about five different bullets. And just

57:28pardon, I'm I'm reading my notes so if I

57:32look distracted. Um one that we're

57:36looking at is, you know, we are a tree

57:38city. Uh and just really codifying that

57:41into our code, uh about what that means.

57:45um which is you know about how much

57:48you're supposed to spend uh what your

57:50forestry budget's supposed to be you

57:52know hosting an arbor day maintaining a

57:55designated uh you know a tree

57:57department. Uh but one of the other

57:58things that we're looking at too is

58:01consolidating public tree management so

58:03that it all falls under the tree warden

58:05instead of just different agencies

58:07having looking over trees. Um so we're

58:11looking at that. We're looking

58:13discussing about ideas of protecting

58:15mature and trees of significance

58:18um and tree replacement mandates and um

58:22also about public communication and

58:24transparency to explain like why trees

58:26are coming down or what you're supposed

58:29to do if you have a tree that's in

58:31danger. We're trying to balance

58:33sustainability with also safety. Um

58:36because trees, as we know, have um can

58:40be a safety hazard.

58:42Um, one of the things that I'm really

58:44excited about that we're looking at too

58:45is a municipal tree fund. Um, that to

58:48set that up so that if

58:52um, someone wants to donate money um,

58:55like there is a government agency that

58:57has to cut down some trees and they

58:59actually ask the city if they could just

59:01pay into the tree fund because they

59:03can't repay um, replant where they're

59:06cutting down due to just the reason why

59:08they're cutting down trees. uh we don't

59:10have a fund for that and so this would

59:12set up a fund so that in cases like this

59:15or if people want to donate money um or

59:18in lie of payments that it can go into

59:21this fund and that fund then the tree

59:22warden can use to plant trees elsewhere

59:25in the city like especially in the

59:27island the heat islands

59:30um and we're also looking at about mini

59:34and micro forest incentives um the

59:38Japanese forest that I will never be

59:39able to pronounce and I'm not going to

59:41botch it for everybody. Uh but just to

59:44um put in provisions that you can do

59:47that on commercial or pocket park pocket

59:50park sites um because I know Energized

59:54Framingham is looking at doing that.

59:56They're working with an organization to

59:58find a good site. Uh but right now um

1:00:00our zoning or the planning does not

1:00:03allow for such density of trees like

1:00:05that. Um so that in a nutshell is really

1:00:11what we're looking at and about clear

1:00:13cutting and dealing with um the issue of

1:00:16solar and how people cut down trees to

1:00:19put in solar. How do we balance that? Um

1:00:22you know I and we're looking at

1:00:25different models in different

1:00:26communities such as Watertown and Newton

1:00:28and Cambridge um and Springfield trying

1:00:32to find some best practices and put that

1:00:34into this ordinance. It is going to be

1:00:36very comprehensive.

1:00:40>> Awesome. Thank you. Councelor Ward, do

1:00:42you have a question?

1:00:44>> Not just a question, maybe just a

1:00:45comment. So like one um like uh props to

1:00:50you for the work that's going into this.

1:00:52And I think um some really cool elements

1:00:54like the municipal tree fund sounds like

1:00:55a really cool element to me. Um, I think

1:00:58as much as the city um and our

1:01:02departments can be supportive in putting

1:01:07trees on our own properties and making

1:01:08it easy for residents who want trees on

1:01:11their property to have it um whether you

1:01:14know not letting funding or access be

1:01:17you know a barrier to those things. I

1:01:18think it's really helpful. Um, I would

1:01:21just insert one kind of caveat that I

1:01:25hope you guys are thinking about as

1:01:26you're going through this process, which

1:01:27is protecting

1:01:29property owner rights to make decisions

1:01:31about their own properties. And so, um,

1:01:37I

1:01:39>> Yes, there's certain um I'm kind of

1:01:41looking at my notes here that

1:01:44>> because because something that's too

1:01:46prescriptive might not be something that

1:01:48I'd be willing to support. Just kind of

1:01:50throwing that out there like in terms of

1:01:51telling property like you know there

1:01:53there's a line that you know it's

1:01:54there's a line that needs to be drawn

1:01:56between

1:01:58property owners being able to make

1:01:59decisions about trees on their property

1:02:01and the city telling them what they can

1:02:03and can't you know like there's for me

1:02:06there's a line there.

1:02:08>> Uh yes and and you know the things we're

1:02:10talking about with with some cutting is

1:02:12about different about subdivisions. Um

1:02:15there are things about if it's a safety

1:02:17concern like there are certain the tree

1:02:20warden is looking also for more cuz

1:02:23right now we're working off of mass

1:02:25general law which is not the most

1:02:27prescriptive or and so a lot of the

1:02:30questions that she gets she's like eh

1:02:32you know like I can give you some

1:02:33guidance but it's nothing based in law.

1:02:35um it will give her more structure to

1:02:37talk to people about and who owns what

1:02:40tree and what you know what the protocol

1:02:42is and there is uh for certain

1:02:46I think it's the way that it is now um

1:02:49but there are certain trees that you

1:02:51actually need to get a permit for to

1:02:52take down and that's on private property

1:02:55so

1:02:56>> we're working through

1:02:57>> scenic roads well scenic roads is one of

1:03:00them and then um

1:03:04trying to remember what the one is but

1:03:06at point taken and that's why we're

1:03:08trying to balance safety private you

1:03:10know private property and still um

1:03:14having trees in the city.

1:03:16>> Yeah. No, I know it's come up for me

1:03:18recently because I've had um a

1:03:20constituent reach out about that lives

1:03:21on Edmonds. Actually, I need to connect

1:03:23to MK because I think she might be in

1:03:26she might be in Christine's district

1:03:27actually. I don't know. I have to figure

1:03:28that out. but about a tree that's on her

1:03:30property that's creating some in her

1:03:34opinion some safety issues with seeing

1:03:35like pulling out of her driveway

1:03:38>> um for one and then I know it also came

1:03:40up I think for an issue um I I think it

1:03:42was a planning board I was watching

1:03:44where there was someone was trying to

1:03:45cut down a tree on like right on Everett

1:03:47or something in in council council

1:03:49Malik's district and

1:03:51>> it was on Mansfield and that which is a

1:03:53scenic road that

1:03:56>> you know and he was concerned about like

1:03:57damage to his house and you know yada

1:03:59yada yada and I think the planning board

1:04:01ultimately said no and you know I we're

1:04:06not doesn't sound like we're changing

1:04:07like the rules around scenic roads but

1:04:09you know in my opinion he seemed like a

1:04:12pretty credible honest straightforward

1:04:14guy who was looking for some relief and

1:04:16didn't get it so that kind of rubbed me

1:04:17the wrong way.

1:04:19>> Yeah. I mean the thing about Edmonds is

1:04:21that Edmonds is a scenic road. So, um,

1:04:24and where city, um,

1:04:29uh, where city lines are too also

1:04:32depends on like some people think a

1:04:34certain tree is actually theirs, but

1:04:35it's actually on the city based on

1:04:37boundaries and and what it is. But

1:04:39>> yeah, scenic roads is really is that's a

1:04:42[clears throat]

1:04:43>> and I think the Edmonds one is that's

1:04:44part of the issue is that it's

1:04:45technically city-owned.

1:04:48>> Yeah. Um, but yeah, you can Yeah. So

1:04:51that's part of that. So that's the

1:04:53status of where we are. So everyone has

1:04:56um we've put together some language and

1:04:58people are looking at it and we're just

1:05:00talking through it. We'll be meeting

1:05:01again

1:05:03um to just continue to work through

1:05:05this. But my goal is to have this uh you

1:05:08know to the council, you know, no later

1:05:10than October so we can start processing

1:05:13that.

1:05:15>> When you say to the council, do you mean

1:05:16to this subcommittee?

1:05:19Uh I mean I would I I think we needed to

1:05:22talk about what the how we want to go

1:05:24about this but I would submit it to the

1:05:27council so that then we can go hit it to

1:05:29here uh and process it through that way

1:05:32the official process unless you

1:05:34>> we don't have to committees are allowed

1:05:36subcommittees are allowed to um develop

1:05:39their own without it coming direct

1:05:42referral from the council.

1:05:44>> I understand that I just wanted to go

1:05:45through the more formal

1:05:47uh process. So I mean that's just my

1:05:51thought but

1:05:53>> um so that then we can just move forward

1:05:56on that process.

1:05:58>> I I think formal referrals are good

1:06:00because it makes people aware and want

1:06:02to come to our meeting.

1:06:03>> Yeah. I I want the other I want

1:06:05counselors to know like what we're

1:06:07doing.

1:06:08>> Counselors but also public.

1:06:10>> Yeah.

1:06:12So okay

1:06:15that's where we're at. So

1:06:18>> great. Okay. Um, which maybe answers my

1:06:22question about um if you would want us

1:06:27to review something at the September

1:06:29meeting of this subcommittee. It sounds

1:06:32like the answer would be no.

1:06:34>> Uh let's see where we're at to be honest

1:06:36with you. Um, and if we wrap this up

1:06:40sooner than later, you know, but I I

1:06:42really want to just give this committee

1:06:44a little bit more time to just continue

1:06:45to do what we what they want to do. So,

1:06:49>> okay. This group, I should say

1:06:50committee.

1:06:52>> Okay. Yeah. No, I think it's great to

1:06:54bring together all the different pieces

1:06:56who have been talking about

1:06:58a tree ordinance in some way at some

1:07:01time.

1:07:02>> So, to just have that come together.

1:07:06>> Great. No, it's very exciting. It's a

1:07:07great group and it's very exciting.

1:07:11>> Awesome. Thanks for taking that on. Um,

1:07:14so moving on in the agenda to member

1:07:16reports, I wanted to offer a followup

1:07:20from the conversation that we had with

1:07:23Keep Framingham Beautiful and the

1:07:25request for a shopping cart ordinance.

1:07:27So, I touched base with Deborah about

1:07:30it. Um, and the

1:07:33sort of some of the details

1:07:36that I think I would want to gather and

1:07:40the information that I would want to

1:07:42gather before moving anything forward.

1:07:44Um, so she was going to get me some of

1:07:46the resources that they have about other

1:07:48municipalities,

1:07:49um, and what they've done so that, um,

1:07:52we can learn from them. Um so that

1:07:57is there's no up that's I guess an

1:08:00update to say that that may or may not

1:08:02be moving forward and um I think there

1:08:04will be opportunity to research and

1:08:06learn about what other municipalities

1:08:08have done um in that um realm

1:08:13>> and and just to put it on the record I

1:08:15think sorry I kind of can I speak

1:08:17>> go for it. Yeah, council.

1:08:19>> I know this is a little bit more

1:08:20informal than the full council, but um

1:08:22yeah, and I think the biggest I think

1:08:23that's helpful and great, and I

1:08:25appreciate you doing some of that leg

1:08:26work. I think one of the biggest

1:08:27questions for me is in other

1:08:29municipalities, what has enforcement

1:08:31looked like and who has been responsible

1:08:33for enforcement? Um and

1:08:37um who and what are we like requiring to

1:08:39like undertake these additional actions?

1:08:42I I think I previously shared that, you

1:08:44know, I'm more in favor of requiring

1:08:46like the big boxes like Target and Stop

1:08:51and Shop doing this and less interested

1:08:54in requiring like the mom and pop stops

1:08:58who have the little carts to help out,

1:09:01you know.

1:09:01>> Yeah, for sure. Right now, I think the

1:09:04proposal would be for um stores with

1:09:07more with at least 20 carts. And I mean,

1:09:11we can definitely talk about if that 20

1:09:13is a good number, if it's more, if it's

1:09:15higher. Um, I haven't made it a practice

1:09:18to be counting the number of shopping

1:09:20carts that different stores have, but

1:09:22who knows, maybe I will. Um, but yeah,

1:09:26we talked about enforcement, but also

1:09:28the notification or the reporting of it

1:09:31and where does that fall. Um, so to be

1:09:35continued. Yeah.

1:09:38Awesome.

1:09:40Other member reports.

1:09:44I have one another one. Sorry. Um well,

1:09:47I think we all got an email about turf

1:09:51fields.

1:09:52>> Oh, yeah.

1:09:53>> Did we all get that? And I know it's

1:09:55come up. I know it's something that the

1:09:56sustainability committee talked about in

1:09:59I think um one of their goals maybe. Um,

1:10:04so I didn't know if that was something

1:10:07that there was appetite for us to look

1:10:09into a little bit as a committee um or

1:10:14where um

1:10:17what your thoughts on that were.

1:10:24So I don't love turf for a couple of

1:10:28reasons, but I don't know

1:10:34I don't know what we're supposed like

1:10:35it's going into Mary Dennison or it is

1:10:38in Mary Dennison. Um

1:10:42I I just don't know where the balance

1:10:44is, right? Like we're they're not going

1:10:46to rip turf out of Mary Dennison now.

1:10:49>> So

1:10:52>> So I'm just

1:10:54And I'm just kind of stuck about, you

1:10:56know, and I think the field at Fuller is

1:10:59also turf. Um, am I wrong on that,

1:11:03Brandon?

1:11:04>> No, no, you're you're 100% right. And I

1:11:06think if we did anything, it should be

1:11:08forwardlooking,

1:11:10>> right? And so I just

1:11:14so I I just don't know what I mean. I I

1:11:17know how I personally feel about it, but

1:11:18I don't know what we can do. Um,

1:11:22>> yeah. I mean, I'm I'm open to having a

1:11:24conversation around like

1:11:27what alternative options look like. And

1:11:32if we think that's our purview and if

1:11:34there are if we in our conversations and

1:11:38research find that there are

1:11:40alternatives

1:11:41that

1:11:43satisfy our concerns, you know, coming

1:11:45up with an ordinance that asks the

1:11:47municipality to pursue those kind of

1:11:49alternatives in future projects. You

1:11:51know, something like that would make

1:11:52sense to me. Um,

1:11:56I don't know when the next turf field is

1:11:58going to come up on a municipal project,

1:12:00but

1:12:03at some point it will.

1:12:05>> I know the state was also talking about

1:12:07banning future turf fields. I don't know

1:12:10where that stands, if that bill is still

1:12:13um if it made it through the June July

1:12:1831st deadline to get to committee. Um,

1:12:21but I know there was some discussion on

1:12:23the state level about it as well. Um,

1:12:26okay. So, let me see. I

1:12:28>> I I think, you know, in some ways it's

1:12:31it's, you know, I don't want to go down

1:12:33this rabbit hole right now because I

1:12:34think it's a really long conversation,

1:12:35but there are like because of the

1:12:38climate we live in. Um there are

1:12:40challenges about maintaining grass

1:12:42fields in in New England around you know

1:12:47just like I think just this past year we

1:12:48had parents coming complaining about you

1:12:51know grass fields not being ready for

1:12:53>> for practices and you know and and parks

1:12:56and you know we had to call in parks and

1:12:57wreck to you know one of the benefits of

1:12:59turf is you don't have to have those

1:13:01conversations. there's a lot of time,

1:13:02energy, resources, money,

1:13:06chemicals that go into maintaining grass

1:13:08fields, too. So, I, you know, it's that

1:13:10I think is a very nuanced conversation,

1:13:12which I'm happy to have. Um, but, uh, I

1:13:16think I think part of the first step of

1:13:17that conversation would be a very like a

1:13:19factf finding endeavor for us.

1:13:24>> I'd agree with that.

1:13:25>> Awesome. Okay. So, let me think or look

1:13:30about moving that. Um, any other member

1:13:34reports, updates, things?

1:13:39Okay.

1:13:41>> Do we um so

1:13:46what so thinking about our next meeting

1:13:50um I guess one question would be is

1:13:53there something for us to talk about in

1:13:54September? Um I don't know that we have

1:13:57to meet if we don't have anything to

1:13:58talk about. Um there will not be

1:14:01something to talk about in terms of

1:14:03shopping carts. I can tell you that. Um

1:14:10whether or not there would be about turf

1:14:12fields, I don't know yet.

1:14:16What are what are folks thoughts on next

1:14:18meeting?

1:14:19>> Well, why don't we just put something on

1:14:21the books and if we've got something, we

1:14:23have something and if we don't, we

1:14:24don't. like I may have trees. Um

1:14:26>> Okay.

1:14:28>> Well, if you want it referred by full

1:14:29counsel, then that would be only it

1:14:32would be the August 18th council meeting

1:14:34referral.

1:14:43>> Am I frozen?

1:14:45Um I think maybe MK is I think putting

1:14:48it on the calendar is a good idea and

1:14:49frankly I prefer committee meetings that

1:14:52are shorter in terms of agenda. So if

1:14:55there's only one agenda item that's

1:14:56actually preferred um cuz marathon

1:14:59committee subcommittee meetings wouldn't

1:15:02be my favorite.

1:15:05>> Okay,

1:15:06>> that's you know I guess a personal

1:15:08preference but

1:15:09>> fair enough. Um

1:15:12it looks like MK is still frozen and now

1:15:14she's gone. Um

1:15:17and so

1:15:20um when do you want to make a proposal

1:15:23for our next meeting? We've been either

1:15:26first or second Wednesday of September.

1:15:31September 2nd is the day after Labor

1:15:33Day. Do you have a preference?

1:15:36>> Well, I think Labor Day is actually the

1:15:387th this year.

1:15:40So, I'm fine with I'm fine with the

1:15:42second if that's

1:15:45>> the second. Okay, I will confirm that.

1:15:48>> Just just I mean we have a city council

1:15:49meeting that next day, the Thursday, but

1:15:51um

1:15:53>> so I'm sure my wife would love that. But

1:15:57>> we can go the next week, the 9th.

1:15:59>> I'm not sure. The 9th is is better for

1:16:01me. So, we might just just throw it on

1:16:03the calendar for the second and let it

1:16:05play out. [laughter]

1:16:07>> Okay. Um, I will touch base with uh,

1:16:12councelor Feny about that. And

1:16:16>> yeah, maybe we could even go um

1:16:19a little earlier. I know we've been

1:16:20doing it 8:00 p.m., but I could maybe do

1:16:22seven or something.

1:16:25>> Oo, it's a bold move. It's a bold move.

1:16:28>> You know, whatever. Keep it 8. I don't

1:16:29care.

1:16:31>> September 2nd at 7 or 8:00 p.m. All

1:16:35right. And with that, I would um

1:16:38entertain a motion to adjurnn.

1:16:40>> Motion to adjurnn.

1:16:41>> All right. And I will second that and we

1:16:43can vote it. Brandon, that's a word.

1:16:46>> Yes.

1:16:47>> And I vote yes. Awesome. Thank you so

1:16:49much.

1:16:51[music]

1:17:03>> [music]

1:17:16[music]