2026-08-06 - City Council Ad Hoc Reorganization Subcommittee

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00:40>> I'm going to open the meeting today.

00:41It's uh 6:01 on August 6th. This is the

00:46City Council sub-committee ad hoc

00:48special committee meeting for the

00:51referral to the mayor's reorg plan.

00:54Um

00:57Wait, sorry. Somebody

00:58>> They're cranky.

01:00>> Oh,

01:01okay. I'm I thought I heard somebody.

01:04Anyway, so this is the um the ad hoc um

01:07special meeting.

01:09Um we have one thing to discuss tonight

01:11and it's basically a yes or uh it's like

01:13a yes vote or a no vote to make a

01:14favorable or not favorable

01:17recommendation to the City Council.

01:19Um so the order is the order number is

01:222026 080. Upon request of the mayor, a

01:25public hearing

01:27to propose and present a reorg plan to

01:30uh city departments to include Callahan

01:32Center with the public library and then

01:34to include Parks Rec and Cultural

01:37Affairs with the Capital Projects and

01:39Facilities Management. So we've had a

01:41meeting on this. It's has been kind of

01:42going on for the last couple months. Um

01:45we did talk about it at our last City

01:48Council meeting. It um requires two

01:50readings. It also has a requirement um

01:53to go before an ad hoc committee

01:55uh of us. Uh

01:57you know, that's what we're here for

01:58tonight and we just you know go over the

02:00mayor's plan and we either vote yes or

02:02no is really the

02:05is what we are tasked with tonight. Um I

02:09see

02:10Charlie Sisisky the mayor is here. I

02:13also see Catherine. Um so if you would

02:16like to basically just give a quick

02:19recap mayor of

02:22your reorg plan and just kind of lay out

02:24you know I know you've it's come up

02:26you've done it a couple of times before

02:27but just just to kind of give us a quick

02:29recap. Um thank you.

02:34>> All right. Okay, I just

02:37unmuted myself. Good morning good good

02:40afternoon everybody.

02:41I'm on technically I'm on vacation so

02:44excuse me if I'm in vacation mode but um

02:48I'm glad to be here tonight and Janet

02:50thank you for holding this meeting. Um

02:52the proposal is relatively simple. Um

02:57and it dates back a number of years to

02:59all the times the city council has been

03:01asking that for the administration to

03:04come up with more efficient operation

03:06and propose ways of reorganizing the

03:09different departments uh to create a

03:12more efficient operation and try to save

03:15money at the same time and I think

03:17that's exactly what this proposal does.

03:20Um it it deals with two different

03:23major departments uh of facilities and

03:27um uh

03:29park and rec department and and plus

03:32then the library and uh Callahan Center.

03:36And what it does is remove the Callahan

03:38Center from the parks and rec department

03:41and add it to the library to create a

03:45library and cultural affairs division

03:47and um

03:49by removing Callahan from parks and

03:51Recreation, we then take take the

03:54remaining Parks and Recreation and join

03:56it with

03:58community

03:59building facilities and and management

04:02and end up with two kind of super

04:04divisions

04:06not unsimilar to what we've done many

04:09years ago with DPW where we have overall

04:13Department of Public Works with separate

04:15divisions that all report to the

04:17Director of Public Works. So, that's

04:19basically what we're doing and

04:22we'll work out the details. If this gets

04:24approved by the City Council, then we

04:26work out the details about the remaining

04:29positions and how they're

04:31set up and with more details about their

04:35responsibilities,

04:36but the what we accomplished by doing

04:39this

04:40reorganization is it gives us the

04:42ability to eliminate two division heads.

04:47From from the budget, which is a savings

04:49of approximately $250,000

04:53a year

04:54next gross savings from the elimination

04:57of those two salaries. And

05:00we're proposing to do that.

05:02We've

05:04since the proposal has been made, I've

05:07been meeting with the different

05:08departments involved in it and they're

05:11they're moving in that in the direction

05:13of implementing the reorganization and

05:17so far it seems to be working very well,

05:19especially over Callahan where everybody

05:22seems to be very happy all the

05:23employees, the the morale of the

05:25employees has gone up tremendously.

05:28We're getting a lot of

05:30new people coming in to visit the center

05:32and make use of the center and

05:36seems to be working well, even though it

05:38hasn't been accomplished officially by

05:40the City Council, the beginning of it is

05:42very promising. And that's basically

05:45where we're at. Kate is here to talk

05:47about any legal implications

05:50about it and I would defer to her for

05:53that conversation.

05:57>> Thanks. Thanks, Mayor. Appreciate that.

06:00Um

06:01So, I guess counselors, I will open it

06:03up to you guys if you have any questions

06:07for either, you know, the mayor or Kate

06:10or I think Brian

06:12was also going to come in. I know he had

06:14another meeting as does the mayor.

06:16But, he was going to try to get on at

06:18the beginning. So,

06:20um if you have any

06:22questions,

06:24you know, I'm sure they can answer

06:27either Charlie or Kate.

06:29>> Oh, yeah.

06:30>> Noble?

06:31>> Yeah, so I didn't know if you were going

06:33to

06:33go ahead, but uh

06:34yes, uh thank you, Madam Chair. It's

06:37great to be with you all again. It's

06:40it's a familiar setting, I think, with

06:43this ad hoc committee of us three. Um

06:46>> [laughter]

06:48>> It's like the band getting back

06:48together.

06:50Um and thank you, Mr. Mayor, for um you

06:53know, appearing tonight on your your

06:55holiday and you look really well and

06:57rested and whatnot. So, [laughter]

06:59>> I wish that was true.

07:01>> Very relaxed, sir. Very relaxed. That's

07:03good. Well, I don't need that. Um but

07:06yeah, I In all seriousness, I just

07:08wanted to say um

07:10you know, I

07:12I didn't get a chance to kind of weigh

07:14in on this at the our last full meeting.

07:17But, um

07:19I

07:20the tenants of this

07:22when it was proposed, I

07:24I um

07:25agreed or I supported supported that

07:28because

07:29um like I said, Mr. Mayor, you know,

07:31we've been talking about mergers and or

07:34the potential of mergers and where

07:37things could

07:38you know, fit in the municipal um,

07:42enterprise if you to call it that. Uh,

07:45and you know,

07:47so you know, we've been talking about

07:49this type of thing for some time and um,

07:53and quite frankly like, you know, we

07:55can't have our cake and eat it, too. I

07:57mean, we we like to, you know, believe

08:00that we can and we do or should, but um,

08:03in this particular environment and in

08:05this climate of

08:07budgetary cutbacks and um, and try to

08:10find savings uh, and but yet um,

08:15uh, giving out or or

08:17um,

08:18providing the same service, you know, I

08:20I think is is crucial.

08:23Uh, and you know, like I said, we can't

08:25really have our cake and eat it, too.

08:27Like people wanting us to cut back on

08:29certain things and be more nimble and be

08:33more thoughtful about how we go about

08:36doing things, but then when we say, oh,

08:38it's going to be this department

08:40this these services and we're going to

08:42try to merge and see how we can

08:45uh, maximize

08:48maximize that

08:49then, you know, certain quarters

08:52understandably get all in a tizzy about

08:55it and rightfully so

08:58uh, because change is hard.

09:00Um,

09:01you know,

09:02>> [clears throat]

09:02>> all don't like change. A lot of us don't

09:04like change and I can understand it, but

09:06I I think with this this particular plan

09:09it gives us a good foundation

09:12to start doing these necessary um,

09:17things and the only my my only concern

09:21or one of my biggest concerns is like,

09:22you know,

09:23I I I like to see that we have a metric

09:26of some kind going forward and I think

09:29that, you know, this may be probably

09:31you know, touch upon that. Um, you know,

09:34do we have like uh, say 90 day, 120 days

09:39out what what are we looking for in

09:41terms of customer service or how the

09:44feedback? You kind of already alluded to

09:46that, but like I just like to see if

09:49we're if y'all are going to implement

09:50implement some kind of in-house metric

09:54to gauge us to

09:56if you're on target with your original

09:59plan and if you want to come back to us

10:01and kind of inform us or a full counsel.

10:05Um I think

10:07at least for me I I think I need to hear

10:09that part before

10:12you know, the green light.

10:17>> [clears throat]

10:18>> Yeah. So let me ask Mr. Mayor if he

10:20answered to the the you know, the

10:22metrics part of it. How you going to

10:23>> Oh, oh sure.

10:24>> Yeah.

10:25>> Yeah, I think yeah, I think we we

10:27touched on it at one of the previous

10:28meetings that um

10:31you know, it's not something that we're

10:32going to be able to evaluate within a

10:34short period of time because it's

10:36obviously going to have growing pains

10:38and and um

10:40uh

10:41to see how it how effective it's going

10:44to be. But I plan on doing a thorough

10:48review of it uh as we prepare the next

10:52year fiscal year budget, the FY28

10:54budget. Uh because if for some reason uh

10:58everybody decides that this doesn't work

11:01and we have to go back to where it used

11:03to be, we're going to have to make

11:05adjustments for the FY28 budget. So

11:08we'll be doing

11:09uh

11:10continuing review of the progress we

11:14make in implementing the reorg and we'll

11:18have to make a decision by the time it's

11:20ready to we're ready to propose uh the

11:23fiscal 28 budget.

11:26>> So am I to understand that you'll in

11:29that process that you're going to do

11:31normally prepare the budget, you'll come

11:33back to us and just tell us like what

11:35the the status of this

11:37>> Yes, absolutely.

11:39>> Okay.

11:41>> By the way, Madam Chair, I just want to

11:44let you know I don't know if you can

11:45tell from the attendance, but Dawn

11:48DellaSanta, our librarian, is on on Zoom

11:53call, but she's having trouble seeing

11:56who else is here.

11:57>> Okay, so maybe there's a problem with

11:59it. No, thank you.

12:00>> You see her?

12:02>> Yes, I do see her and I just we I just

12:05messaged she just messaged me, so

12:07>> Okay.

12:07>> She is yeah, thank you for that. I was

12:09going to also add that

12:11that

12:13that Dawn is here as is Noelia from the

12:16Senior Center

12:18and also I believe Jim Paolini

12:21and Allison from Parks and Rec.

12:26And and then

12:28I know if there's any questions for Kate

12:30Fallon is here as well and also I think

12:33Brian

12:34um

12:35So, if anybody needs to jump in to

12:38answer

12:39you know, I know Christine you had a

12:40couple questions too that were

12:42I'm I'm going to get to you in 2

12:43seconds, but I didn't know if Dawn

12:46um

12:49if she could I don't see Dawn's hand up.

12:51>> Yeah, I I can promote all those people

12:52you just mentioned, Madam Chair.

12:54Um

12:54>> Oh, sure. Thank you so much.

12:58Thank you. Appreciate that.

13:10Okay, so if Oh, and Kathy O'Leary is

13:12here, too. So, just in case I I just saw

13:15her name, sorry.

13:17Didn't mean to leave her out. I

13:18appreciate too all the

13:20division heads and department heads for

13:22being here tonight. Um

13:26to you know

13:28you know, join us.

13:30And everyone's busy all day and then

13:32meetings every night, so

13:34it's appreciated. So, I don't know if

13:37Dawn, if um

13:39if you

13:41if anybody just feel free to put your

13:42hand up.

13:44I like I said, I see Christine, you're

13:46next up for I know you had a couple

13:47questions.

13:49Um

13:50I just can't tell if Dawn's hand is up.

13:54But any any um we can get back to that,

13:56too. When I see her, I can just bring

13:58her in cuz I'm sure she can answer um

14:01maybe if if Noble, is that okay? We can

14:03wait on Dawn and um Christine, I think

14:05that probably some of yours will we're

14:07probably all getting the same questions.

14:09So

14:10>> May I um Can you

14:12>> Yeah, so feel free. Yes, we can. Feel

14:13free, you got the floor.

14:15>> Okay. So, hold on now.

14:19I'm having trouble with my computer at

14:21the moment, suddenly.

14:24Um yeah, I had a series of questions

14:26that I wanted to ask. Um and I did talk

14:28to our CFO

14:31last week about this. I had a bunch of

14:33questions for him and he's not here. So,

14:35uh the mayor already answered the

14:37anticipated annual cost savings, so that

14:40was one of my questions.

14:42Um also

14:44uh have you researched if other Mass

14:47municipalities use a similar model? I

14:49know I've researched a little bit and

14:52it's

14:53uh

14:54common to have a facilities and usually

14:57it's under DPW facilities and park and

15:00rec, but this is not

15:02uncommon to have this um consolidation

15:05of those departments. Uh there are other

15:07communities, not a lot, that do the

15:10consolidation and one of the things I

15:12did ask for is to make it under

15:14community services, which I see uh that

15:17change has been made, so it's libraries

15:18and community community services, which

15:21makes sense. So, I wondered if um there

15:23was any other research on other

15:25municipalities that have a similar

15:26similar model. Um I believe Medford

15:30does. There's There is another community

15:32that does.

15:33Um also, how will the success be

15:36measured? Or is it going to be a 1 year,

15:393 years, 5 years? And I think Noble sort

15:42of asked this question already, but I

15:44was wondering if you had laid out a

15:45metric um over time as to success or

15:49failure of this consolidation.

15:52Uh

15:53More [clears throat] importantly, what

15:54protections exist for the statutory role

15:56of the library trustees

15:58uh and for the Council of Aging? I think

16:00some of that's already been addressed,

16:02but I think the public would like to

16:03hear more on that. Um in my I guess

16:07moreover, I want to know why were these

16:09specific departments selected to

16:11consolidate?

16:13Um and are there more future

16:14consolidations going on? And I know

16:16we've asked for this probably uh this

16:19goes back maybe seven six or seven years

16:22when we started asking for municipal

16:24consolidations to try to uh save money

16:27and uh reduce our budget or our our

16:30expenses for the municipality.

16:33And I guess what happens if the new

16:34structure um

16:37does not achieve what we anticipated to

16:39achieve? And will annual public reports

16:42be provided comparing outcomes before

16:44and after implement implementation? I

16:46know that's a lot of questions.

16:48>> Okay.

16:50So, let let me try let me take the one

16:52about the

16:53uh independent or the advisory boards

16:56first. Um and as I pointed out in one of

17:00the documents that we submitted and I've

17:02told this to um

17:04especially the Library Board of

17:06Trustees, I've had several meetings with

17:07them.

17:08Nothing at all in terms of their role,

17:11their legal responsibilities,

17:13or anything else that they do is going

17:16to be affected by this change. That also

17:18applies to the Council on Aging. It also

17:21applies to the Park and Rec Commission.

17:23Nothing is going to change whatsoever.

17:26As a matter of fact, each one of these

17:28individual departments will continue to

17:31have their own budget and work with

17:35work [clears throat] with their own

17:35budget. So, especially with the Library

17:38Board of Trustees, it's important to

17:40document all of their funding so we make

17:43sure that we stay uh eligible for the

17:46state aid that comes to the to the

17:48cities and towns for their libraries.

17:51That's very important to maintain that

17:54and this absolutely makes no changes to

17:56how that works. So, it'll have no impact

17:59at all on them. As you know, the Library

18:01Board of Trustees is elected. They'll

18:04continue to be elected. The Park and Rec

18:06Commission is appointed by the mayor.

18:09They'll continue to be appointed by the

18:10mayor. Continue to have their advisory

18:13role. Um Council on Aging, the exact

18:16same thing. They're appointed by the

18:18mayor. They'll continue to be appointed

18:20by the mayor and they'll continue to

18:22have the same advisory role that they

18:25now have. Nothing is going to change. Um

18:28with respect to other communities that

18:31have done this or some uh portion of

18:34this, I know Dawn has done a an

18:37immense amount of uh research on this. I

18:41think she found one community in

18:43Massachusetts, a very small community,

18:46that does this, but I think she's found

18:49other communities elsewhere in the

18:51country that have done it and done it

18:53very successful. So, I would ask Dawn to

18:57um weigh in on that. Um

19:00I think I answered your question about

19:01the immediate savings. Um any you also

19:05asked if there's any other reorg

19:07planned. If this goes ahead and gets

19:10planned, the next

19:12uh, part of this would be moving the

19:15veterans over into this new, uh,

19:17cultural affairs committee.

19:19Um, I think that makes sense too, cuz

19:22they're like an orphan department now

19:25under, sort of, under the jurisdiction

19:27of the HR department, which really

19:30doesn't make a lot of sense. I think it

19:32makes more sense for them to be part of

19:34this new cultural affairs committee. So,

19:37that would be the next proposal. Uh,

19:40assuming it this this, uh, major

19:42proposal goes ahead. As a matter of

19:44fact, I intended to do that, but the

19:46legal ad for this hearing didn't include

19:50that in it, so we had to drop veterans

19:53from the original proposal.

19:55I'm

19:57I'm sorry, go ahead.

19:58>> No, I was going to say as a follow-up,

19:59and I know, you know, you could

20:02and I when I was talking to, uh,

20:04Mr. Turbitt, our

20:06CFO, I brought that up that I think you

20:08should just re-advertise this, and

20:11what's it a 2-week period, put the ad

20:12in,

20:13uh, continue the public hearing so that

20:16you can include veteran service, which

20:17is why I suggested, um, calling it

20:20library with community services, because

20:22libraries, senior services, and veterans

20:26all should fall under community

20:28services, cuz that's what they are.

20:30>> Well, park and ride

20:31>> I'd be next that's a

20:33>> That's a valid suggestion, but I prefer

20:35not to do that.

20:36>> Yeah, it's not a problem.

20:38>> Yeah, at some point, definitely, but,

20:40uh, because, um,

20:43we're in limbo now, and we don't have

20:46money

20:47>> [clears throat]

20:47>> money in the FY27 budget for the, uh,

20:50former position of director of parks,

20:53and for the former position of, uh,

20:55senior center director. Um,

20:57I prefer to get this reorganization

21:00taken care of one way or another as soon

21:02as possible, so we know where where

21:04everybody stands, uh, rather than delay

21:07it by

21:08waiting to add the veterans. We can

21:10always add the veterans later without a

21:13major

21:15change. So, I prefer to keep moving

21:18ahead with this and hopefully the

21:20council will take it up at their meeting

21:22on August 18th.

21:24>> Yeah. Yeah.

21:26Um I think that sounds good and um I

21:28think to your point there are

21:30different parts of this country that

21:32actually employs this practice uh

21:34frequently. So, I did do some research

21:36on my own. Not so much in Massachusetts,

21:39but more in western states

21:42uh do have this type of consolidation.

21:44It's not unusual.

21:46Um

21:47so it'd be sort of a hybrid.

21:49And I think it's a good idea and I think

21:51um

21:52you know, continue to look into other

21:54ways. I know our intent originally had

21:57to do with trying to consolidate some of

21:59the school department um with the city

22:03side to sort of reduce some of that cost

22:05on that end. I think that's more

22:06difficult to achieve and I think if you

22:10continue to try to figure out other ways

22:13um to consolidate departments, I think

22:15it's a great idea. So, I don't have a

22:17problem with this plan. I think that

22:20you know, it makes sense as an initial

22:22start. Personally, I don't think it's

22:24the hugest cost saving that we could

22:26have, but at least it's a start to be

22:29able to try to consider and I know um I

22:32did speak to COO about this uh I think

22:35last week the week before and there was

22:36different options they tried and I think

22:39this was the one thing that seemed to be

22:41uh most easily achievable in a short

22:45term rather than trying to do

22:46consolidations of other departments

22:48that'll be a little more difficult. So,

22:52thank you for the response.

22:53[clears throat]

22:54>> You're welcome. Speaking of the CFO, I

22:57talked to him about 15-20 minutes ago

22:59and he told me he was running a little

23:01late because he had made other plans for

23:04another meeting. So, he's going to join

23:06as quickly as he can unless he's already

23:09joined. I can't tell.

23:10>> Yeah, I I

23:12Yeah, I don't see him yet. But that's in

23:14case we have a question directed

23:16>> He's planning on joining.

23:18>> Okay. And I know that we've all reached

23:20out to him separately. I know Christine

23:22has as well and I think that um you

23:24know, I think that the some of the

23:26concerns were raised with the questions

23:27from you know Christine and Noble.

23:30That's kind of what we've heard. You

23:31know, we have talked to you know

23:34different people um

23:36you know, and those words. I got an

23:37email today from another city councilor

23:39that had questions about some of these

23:41things and I think that um you know,

23:44they're very valid points and I think um

23:47you know, especially the people that are

23:49on the boards, you know, the long-time

23:50boards, library

23:52you know, the we're really lucky to have

23:54a very strong um elected library board

23:58and the volunteer boards of the park and

24:00wreck. I mean, they are you know, truly

24:02dedicated. Um and they you know, so

24:05their passion and concern is totally

24:07noted and um I know all of them and I

24:11think that you know, they go back a very

24:13long way in being involved with parks

24:15and I think that they're clearly

24:17concerned with just making sure that

24:19this is

24:20the parks and the programs are going to

24:22stay

24:23um

24:24you know

24:25going strong and I understand you know,

24:28people with change you know, you always

24:30are

24:31definitely concerned um and I think that

24:35um you know, the their points are

24:37definitely valid. So, um

24:41Did anybody did you Dawn or anybody want

24:43to I know um

24:46I don't see

24:47Dawn's hand up so maybe she was

24:49>> Can I Can I make one one other

24:51>> Yeah, sure.

24:52>> So, I just know and I know this has been

24:55a concern of other people too is that

24:57these both of these boards have specific

24:59under the law under mass general law

25:01have specific authority and um powers

25:05and none of that's going to change. So,

25:08and I know you've made that point, the

25:09mayor's made that point, I want to make

25:11that clear because it seems like that

25:13keeps surfacing up about um interference

25:16in their obligations and duties under

25:18mass general law different chapters

25:21relative to each one of those boards.

25:23So, and especially the library board has

25:25very duties and responsibilities and

25:28powers. So,

25:30>> Correct.

25:30>> that's going to be affected or changed.

25:33>> I appreciate you with that and I agree

25:35100% cuz I think that that is a concern,

25:37but I also think too this you know,

25:39these boards have been very they've been

25:41around a long you know, some of the

25:43people on them and they are truly

25:45fiercely loyal to

25:47their parks department and so I think

25:50that they are truly as well. Moreover,

25:52I'm not saying that you're not right. Of

25:53course they're concerned about what

25:55their roles will be,

25:57but I also think too, you know, in

25:59speaking to some of them, they are truly

26:03passionately concerned that we are not

26:04going to undercut in any way funding or

26:08maybe not funding, but just um

26:10the strong parks, the strong libraries

26:13um

26:14and I just wanted to make that, you

26:15know, separately noted because I think

26:18it's a two-pronged thing that they're

26:20concerned about. And I'm not speaking

26:21for them. I know Kathy, I did think I

26:23thought I saw Kathy

26:25talk. Maybe I didn't um but I do know I

26:27have spoken to all of them, a lot of

26:29them, not all specifically, but and I'm

26:31certainly not speaking for them.

26:33Um

26:34So, is there anybody else that has

26:37um

26:38Oh, okay, I've got the screen now. Oh,

26:39now I can see everyone.

26:41>> Okay.

26:41>> Um

26:42>> Oh.

26:42>> Oh, go ahead, Noah.

26:44>> Sorry.

26:45Uh I didn't see No, if you saw my hand

26:46or not, but I did

26:47>> Sorry. Yeah, yeah, sure, go ahead.

26:49>> I did have a question and I it goes to

26:52just about anybody in the in our the

26:54staff you know mayor included.

26:58And

26:59and I think it's important at least you

27:01know to

27:02ask this because we are focused on you

27:05know the the good parts of this and the

27:08promising parts of this but I also want

27:11to know

27:12when y'all were devising this

27:15did you do you or do you did you

27:17envision any pitfalls any reasonable

27:19pitfalls that can

27:21come along the way and if so

27:24what are your yeah what are you what are

27:26your mitigating

27:29you know

27:30how are you going to mitigate that?

27:32>> Well when when we were developing I

27:35guess that question's for me right

27:36Novell?

27:37>> Yeah.

27:38>> [laughter]

27:38>> Could be.

27:39>> When we were developing

27:41you know this whole idea and everything

27:44I spent a lot of time talking to the

27:45different employees that were involved.

27:48And I wanted to make sure that um

27:51they were

27:52they were in on this and

27:55would be willing to

27:57take on this this new mission and I

28:01think one of the pitfalls if there is a

28:03pitfall it'd be that

28:06the employees

28:08weren't supportive of the idea and just

28:10the opposite is

28:12proven so far that

28:14every one of the employees that are

28:15involved in this

28:17are totally on board

28:20they love the idea and they've been very

28:23helpful in helping flush out some of the

28:27potential problems and coming up with

28:30solutions to different details and so

28:35I'm pretty convinced that because of the

28:39attitude of the employees and their

28:40desire to really do a good job for the

28:43residents of the city uh, make this

28:46whole operation more efficient and more

28:48streamlined that they're it's going to

28:51be successful. And um, uh, I think

28:54because of of the nature of our

28:55employees, uh, we're very fortunate to

28:58have such very, uh, good employees,

29:01dedicated, loyal employees that I think

29:03it's going to work. And that would That

29:05would be my my major concern, uh,

29:08whether or not to move this forward, but

29:10based on the response from them, um, I'm

29:13very comfortable uh, and optimistic that

29:16this is going to be successful.

29:19>> Yeah. Uh, and I uh,

29:22totally concur and agree that that was a

29:24good, uh,

29:25way of going out going about trying to

29:28develop the plan and seeing if it's

29:31going to, um,

29:33going to be able to sell it and

29:35implement it and maintain it. And I

29:38think those are the three main

29:40categories that you always have to look

29:42at when you're doing something in a

29:44major operation. I, um,

29:46you know, for the record, I I've been

29:47involved with two major reorganizations

29:50in the military and it's always, you

29:53know, it's a it's fraught with a lot of,

29:55um, you know, trepidation and, um, and

29:58concerns and and I and that's natural in

30:01any organization and, uh, cuz we're

30:04we're it's people-centered, it's

30:06mission-driven, and then on the other

30:08hand, we have, you know, clients, um,

30:11you know, residents that are also

30:14concerned, um, equally. So, and I just I

30:17just want to give a shout-out to the

30:20the, um,

30:21the commensurate boards and commissions

30:23that, um,

30:24you know, that work with, um,

30:27you know, both the library, uh, the

30:29library trustees and, um,

30:31the, uh, park and rec, uh, commission,

30:34um, it is one of our, you know, highest,

30:37um,

30:38level or or eyes and concerns, um, I

30:42think in the city. So um,

30:45big shout out to all the volunteers and

30:47the elected our elected counterparts.

30:51>> Thanks Noble. Uh

30:53Christine.

30:54>> Yeah, so I just have one follow-up on

30:56that. Noble hit on something that I

30:58think is really important. I think um

31:01I'm assuming that you met with staff

31:04before this came about to get their

31:06input as to how they felt about this

31:10transition because I know being a public

31:12employee myself aside from a city

31:14councilor it's really important that

31:17when the changes go on in an office that

31:19you know or municipality that you're

31:22informed about it and you get the input

31:24and their buy-in from the people that

31:26are being affected instead of just

31:27making changes without um any kind of

31:30input from the employees and personnel

31:33that's being affected. So I'm

31:36assuming and hoping that's what happened

31:38here and I actually like to hear from

31:40Mr. Paolini who I've known for years and

31:42worked with and congratulations to you

31:44because I think actually Park and Rec is

31:46a good fit

31:47for um facilities.

31:51>> Thanks Christine. Go ahead Jim.

31:55>> Thank you Christine. Um yeah I'm I'm

31:58looking forward to the um endeavor. Um

32:01I'm actually excited um about the merger

32:05and I'm looking forward to developing uh

32:07a

32:08a even stronger department with the both

32:10of

32:11uh with both both departments being

32:12merged.

32:14And um

32:15I'm looking forward to uh

32:17better

32:18uh efficiencies uh throughout citywide

32:22and it gives us a good opportunity to

32:26synergize a lot of energies with

32:27different employees that are uh

32:30on both sides of each division. So uh

32:33I'm actually very excited about it.

32:36>> And congratulations.

32:38>> Thank you.

32:38>> Thank you.

32:42I'm done.

32:45>> Janet, you're muted.

32:49>> Sorry, I was I have a 2-year-old here.

32:52You trust me, you're glad you were

32:53muted.

32:55Um

32:55No, I was going to just um just say

32:57thanks for that. I I do um I think that

33:00um

33:01all these questions that people are, you

33:04know, bringing up um I think are very

33:06they're very valid and I do think that

33:08um you know, the change part of it, I

33:11mean, it's more than just saying, you

33:12know, change is hard, I think, or people

33:14don't like change cuz that seems to say

33:16you know, in a way dismiss what people

33:18are feeling and um and I don't think

33:21that that's necessarily, you know,

33:22what's some people might have concerns

33:24with. I think truly they

33:26you know, they work for a department for

33:28so long and you know, you're going to

33:29dis I mean, this really isn't major

33:31structurally change. You're you're

33:33it it's it really isn't. It's just

33:35moving um you know, combining

33:38departments that make sense and

33:41um

33:43I I think that people are concerned that

33:45maybe what if it doesn't go well? And I

33:47think

33:49this council, I mean, we'll know sooner

33:51than later if it's not going to go well.

33:53And I think that we've been around these

33:54divi- department heads, division heads,

33:56what not, you know, what what whatever

33:58they may have been to this point. Um

34:02that we have seen them in action. And I

34:04mean, especially with the senior center

34:05that really has gone up like went into

34:08full,

34:09you know, um sink or swim mode,

34:12literally. I don't know, was it 8 weeks

34:15ago now that this has been um when we

34:18had that very first meeting on the um

34:20Friends of Callahan.

34:22Um

34:23it was I think the day after, you know,

34:25the this came out and

34:28Dawn was at the meeting, Noelia. Um That

34:32at that point is when we had the the

34:34veterans were part of it and I

34:35definitely want to put this forward ASAP

34:38because

34:39Chris was there, the veteran service

34:41officer, who's

34:42wonderful and he is kind of on an island

34:45by himself just with sort of a

34:46department of one,

34:48um, you know, one little kind of

34:51you know, um,

34:53uh, entity that we have that does fall

34:55kind of in a weird place, under, no

34:56offense to HR, but like it's a really

34:59good fit to when we met at the Callahan

35:01Center

35:02a couple of days later, Chris was there,

35:05Don, Noelia, the whole, um, all the, um,

35:10Friends of Callahan board, um, some of

35:12the Council on Aging board, um, I think

35:15there were a couple of them there, um,

35:17the social workers,

35:19um,

35:19a lot of the staff, the volunteers, it

35:21was a really

35:23robust meeting and they were coming up

35:25with

35:27ideas to bring the veterans in to expand

35:29on bringing the veterans into Callahan

35:31more and working with the library and

35:33they were kind of going all back and

35:34forth and you could feel the energy and

35:37this was on day one and I have been down

35:40to the senior center, I have spoken with

35:41Mary McGill that runs the Callahan

35:43Friends board, I have spoken to Noelia,

35:46um, a handful of times, I've talked to

35:48some of the folks that are, um, that go

35:52to the Callahan Center

35:54and those are the people you have to

35:56ask, that's your metric system, um,

36:00right now because you have, you will get

36:02a whole,

36:04um, dialogue of what's going on there

36:07and there the energy is, you know,

36:10it's palpable and when you talk to the

36:14folks that that are live it and that are

36:16in and out every day,

36:18um, and you see the programs that have

36:20expanded and the the you can't get into

36:23some of the programs and the parking lot

36:25is

36:26you can't get into the parking lot. I

36:28mean, these are really a good sign that

36:30and I have not heard that Don is

36:32exhausted or, you know, these Don's

36:35basically letting them continue to do

36:37fabulous things and

36:39I think you know, we've seen a little

36:42bit of time go by and I right now I'm

36:44very happy with what I've seen. Um,

36:46so that's just kind of my thoughts on

36:48it, but I do understand like some of the

36:50concerns, you know, with, you know, what

36:52if it doesn't work and it we, you know,

36:54I think if it's not working, I don't

36:56think that Noellia is going to not call

36:58us because she has all of our numbers,

37:00she can find us and

37:03they will call us if this isn't working

37:05and I think that

37:07um

37:09that is also a concern that I have if if

37:12we have to make sure that you know, they

37:14would come to us and let us know and I

37:17think that as the city council, I'm

37:18speaking just for myself, but um I think

37:22that if it got to that point that we

37:23would definitely do something and with

37:26the mayor, we would have to make some

37:29you know, some changes and I just think

37:31that it's something that we would find

37:33out about and that we would address and

37:35not just let uh you know, something that

37:38we worked, you know, to have happen, you

37:42know, and got behind and that have it

37:43not work um and not see a way to fix it.

37:48um

37:50And that's just how I think, you know,

37:52moving forward here. Um

37:55And I am I think it's a good I think

37:58that this is a good

38:00fit really on on all sides and I think

38:03that we would be willing to support

38:06these um departments um

38:09and the city councilors that I spoke

38:11with, I mean, we have the departments

38:12backs 100% because if they're failing

38:16you know, it's a failure as us really as

38:18the city councilors because you know,

38:20it's not just on the mayor, it's really

38:22on all of us. So,

38:24um that that's just my thoughts. Um

38:29And does And just don't see any hands

38:31up. So, I don't know if anybody um

38:35>> Madam Chair, there's I know that

38:37in the public there's there's two hands

38:39up.

38:39>> Okay, hold on. I got to get into the big

38:41Okay, I see um

38:43>> And Janet, can I just uh interject for a

38:45second? I'm getting the text message

38:47from the CFO. He's been unable to join

38:51uh on Zoom, but he's trying to call in

38:54on his phone. And I don't know if you

38:56can tell

38:57by the your screen names and

39:00>> Do you guys see him?

39:01>> Oh, you did? Okay, so maybe he was able

39:03>> in the attendees list. I'm trying to

39:04promote him to panelist.

39:06>> Okay, perfect. Thank you. Thanks, Mike.

39:09Okay, so yeah, I didn't open up my other

39:10screen. I see the attendees uh um So,

39:13first a hand I see is Herb Chasin. Go

39:16ahead, Herb.

39:23>> Okay. Can you hear me?

39:25>> Yep.

39:26>> Thank you, Madam Chair.

39:27Um

39:29This is Herb Chasin. I urge you in the

39:31strongest possible terms to reject this

39:35reorganizational

39:37proposal.

39:39It's a mistake.

39:41It doesn't pass the smell test. You know

39:44why not?

39:45We have here over

39:48almost a thousand. Almost. I got 901

39:54signatures online and on paper we have

39:58about 70, 75, something like that. So,

40:01what does that tell you? Come on, folks.

40:04What does that tell you? This is not

40:05popular.

40:07Okay?

40:09It

40:10Let me get into it. It takes one person,

40:13the library director, to to lead two

40:16major departments with entirely

40:18different missions,

40:20responsibilities, regulations,

40:23constituents.

40:25It's not efficiency, it's overload.

40:28Listen to the board of the library. It's

40:31overload on Dawn. It's too much.

40:34I mean, Dawn is doing a great job. We

40:36love Dawn.

40:37It's unfair to her, even though she

40:41volunteered to do it.

40:43It's unfair to the patrons of the

40:45library. It's unfair to the thousands of

40:48seniors who depend on the Callahan

40:51Center.

40:53The senior citizens, I'm one of them,

40:56I'm 87 years old,

40:58deserve a dedicated director whose only

41:02responsibility is to advocate for the

41:05seniors' needs,

41:08strengthen programs,

41:10pursue grants, respond to crises,

41:14and ensure they're never an

41:16afterthought. And it looks here

41:19that the seniors are an afterthought.

41:21That's terrible.

41:23Eliminating that position sends a

41:25painful message.

41:27The needs of older adults like me can

41:30simply be folded into someone else's

41:34else's already demanding job. Terrible.

41:39Now, let's get into that. I did a lot of

41:41research. I like to research.

41:44All right. Now, supposedly there are

41:46other cities in the country that have

41:49done this. Well, I could not find any.

41:53So, please, you know, and and it

41:56Here's the thing. If there were other

41:58cities, why wasn't this presented right

42:01at the get-go?

42:02Right? I mean, now we're scrambling

42:04around. Dawn I supposedly has found some

42:07cities, comparable cities, not not

42:11little small cities where you can

42:13understand this, but comparable cities.

42:15Why wasn't this put in the first place

42:18so we can see does it really work? Does

42:21it? I don't know. Who knows?

42:25Okay.

42:27Uh the administration assures us that

42:31the services will remain the same.

42:33But services don't operate by

42:35themselves. People do lead.

42:39All right? Leadership matters.

42:41Visibility matters. Advocacy matters.

42:45Once you eliminate the director of

42:47Callahan, you eliminate an independent

42:51voice whose sole responsibility is

42:54looking after looking out for other

42:57older residents.

42:59All right? Framingham has repeatedly

43:02said it values its seniors.

43:05Well, that's true. Now's the time to

43:07prove it. Not with words, but with your

43:10vote.

43:11>> Thank you, Herb. I wanted to also

43:13mention that 3 minutes and so right now

43:15you have like 20 seconds left. Thank

43:17you.

43:18>> Well, let me finish my 20 seconds.

43:22This proposal saves relatively little

43:25money. It creates significant risk,

43:29diminishes and diminishes the importance

43:32of the Callahan Center, and places an

43:34unreasonable burden on the library

43:37director.

43:39>> Okay, thank you, Herb.

43:42Okay, next up uh Brian Solomon.

43:48>> Hi, can you hear me?

43:49>> Sure, yep.

43:50>> Yeah, Brian Solomon, District 4.

43:53Um basically since uh you guys can only

43:55do an up or down vote, I guess I'm

43:57saying give it a down vote. Uh my

43:59comments are mainly on the senior side

44:01of the house just cuz that's what I'm

44:02much more familiar with.

44:04Um

44:05I guess I was seriously disappointed, um

44:07um, you guys dropped a position out of

44:09the senior center.

44:11Um, it's a it's a tiny tiny budget and

44:14it

44:14really kind of falls it really kind of

44:16handles a large segment of the

44:17population. So, I don't think it should

44:19have been touched at all. It really

44:21shouldn't,

44:22uh, regardless of who was in the spot.

44:25You just you took away a giant chunk of

44:27money, in my opinion, from

44:29>> [clears throat]

44:29>> a very small budget.

44:31Um, one question keeps it keeps getting

44:33talked about this was money savings and

44:35I've heard this a number of times. It's

44:37even been asked to the council. Um,

44:39you're going to be throwing these

44:40responsibilities onto other people.

44:42And so, the question is I'm assuming the

44:43assumption will be is they're going to

44:44want more money.

44:46Uh, or they're going to be overloaded,

44:48as Herb mentioned, and sooner or later

44:49going to walk out the door on you.

44:51So, I think the question's going to be

44:53is if people are going to get salary

44:55increases or whatever, you should tell

44:57the public that. And as a a city

44:59council, you're supposed to be the

45:00checks and balance, right? You should be

45:02looking at the fact of someone saying

45:04we're going to save you money. But if

45:05all of a sudden they're going to come

45:06back in 6 months and say, "Oh, now we

45:08need a whole hunk of money." Well, it

45:10really wasn't a savings, right? It's

45:12it's a hidden savings because no one's

45:14telling you the other side of the story.

45:16It's been asked multiple times. I don't

45:17know why that answer's being held back.

45:20Um,

45:21people have already mentioned the

45:22metrics. I go I really feel like this

45:24really hasn't gotten a good thorough

45:26work through yet, just as Herb again

45:28mentioned again, give us examples of

45:30other communities where this has worked

45:31and what metrics are you going to use?

45:34Um, and not saying anything, when this

45:36thing holds out a load, I don't think

45:38library board was consulted, the council

45:39of aging wasn't consulted. This was just

45:41kind of rammed through. Right? So, these

45:44advisory boards that you're even talking

45:45about where, you know, people are

45:47talking about the concern about their

45:48authority. I'm not too sure there's much

45:49of a worry there because those advisory

45:51boards weren't even consulted. They it

45:54was just rammed it through.

45:55Um, and the fact that the veterans were

45:57completely left off this whole thing, it

45:59just shows me that, again, this wasn't

46:01well thought out. This should have been

46:03all that this been this is going on for

46:05weeks now. This should have been tons of

46:07details

46:08and the city council should be some

46:10quite some questions getting asked but I

46:11think a lot of question a lot more

46:12questions should be being asked. And my

46:14only last comment is I keep hearing

46:16about the fact that there's a

46:18it almost talks about personalities at

46:20least in terms of the senior center that

46:21we have a superstar that's going to take

46:23it over and that's great. I'm glad we

46:25have a superstar employee. My question

46:28though is a super anyone can get hit by

46:30a bus anyone can walk out

46:32[clears throat] the door the next day.

46:33So my so thinking forward you need to be

46:35thinking about the fact if your

46:36superstar is going to do jobs A, B, C

46:39and D now, how hard is it going to be to

46:41replace that person?

46:42So think about that for the future as

46:44well.

46:45And I think my 3 minutes is up.

46:47>> Thank you.

46:49Uh Christine.

46:53>> I just had a follow up on Mr. Sullivan's

46:56comment because I did actually ask

46:59the same thought crossed my mind. I did

47:02ask the CFO and I do see he's here. Did

47:06obviously if you're removing director

47:08and you're putting more responsibility

47:10onto another department head, that

47:12someone's going to get paid more. So

47:15how much of a difference is that

47:18compared to the savings by consolidating

47:21the departments?

47:22So what does that reduce the savings to?

47:24I guess that's a question and I know I

47:26don't know if Mr. Turvey can answer that

47:28question publicly or not.

47:31Um

47:35>> Is Brian

47:36>> Yeah, he's there.

47:37>> Oh thanks Brian.

47:38>> Madam Chair, can you hear me?

47:41>> Yes.

47:43>> Okay. Um so

47:46we had discussed and I think I had

47:48talked to Councillor Long about this.

47:49The the two director positions that were

47:56a limit process, the salary total

47:58between the two is approximately

47:59$260,000.

48:01And

48:03the it's been discussed and I think it's

48:05been

48:06very kind of widely discussed that we

48:08know that

48:10should the reorganization be approved

48:12that there are going to need to be

48:14revisions to

48:15uh approximately four job descriptions

48:18and I don't think that we've ever not

48:20acknowledge that there's going to be

48:22some changes.

48:23I think it would be slightly premature

48:25to try to assign a value to the those

48:28changes because the job descriptions

48:30haven't been

48:31HR is still working on that, but with a

48:34$260,000 savings now because of the

48:36elimination of the positions, the job

48:38description changes

48:40and in potential increases are not going

48:42to be $260,000.

48:44I I mean, the likelihood is that we're

48:46still going to realize in excess of

48:48$200,000 in savings and and I don't even

48:51think we're going to realize $60,000 in

48:54job description changes, but

48:57because we're still working on them, I

48:58don't want to peg a definitive number

49:01because again they're they're still

49:02being kind of reviewed and tried to

49:04figure out what exactly it's going to

49:05look like. But there is going to be

49:06savings and that'll carry forward as we

49:08move forward. Um is it going to be 260?

49:11No, and I don't think I've ever

49:12indicated anybody that it we were going

49:14to realize the full value because

49:17as I mentioned, we have acknowledged

49:18that there are going to be some changes

49:19to the job descriptions of the

49:21individuals that are having some duties

49:23impacted and and taking on new

49:25responsibilities.

49:27>> And a follow-up on that, um also if

49:30you're eliminating two positions, you're

49:31eliminating health care costs, you're

49:33eliminating uh long-term costs of

49:36pensions, annuities, life insurance, and

49:39everything else that's associated with

49:41that. So those costs also weigh on the

49:44long term.

49:45>> Sure. So, but to um

49:48and and it's very possible to counselor

49:50Long's to through you, Madam Chair.

49:52There's very possibility that those

49:54could become long-term savings, but if

49:58the individuals were eligible to retire,

50:00then I'm not going to realize any health

50:02insurance savings because if you retire

50:04and you have the length of service and

50:06can retire from the city, then you would

50:07be eligible as a retiree to be on the

50:09plan. And depending on the age when you

50:13retire,

50:14the only time we would start to realize

50:15savings is when they would be eligible

50:18to go on Medicare and we would have the

50:20the supplement plan, which is at a lower

50:22cost than the the regular plan. But and

50:25I don't know off the top of my head if

50:27they're eligible to retire or not. If

50:29they were not eligible to retire, then

50:30yes, it'd be long-term benefit savings

50:32as well.

50:36>> Yeah, thank you. I I knew that. Sorry.

50:40I just made the assumption that possibly

50:43they were under 10 years of service. So,

50:46cuz you know, again, as a public

50:48employee, I know that 10 years you hit a

50:49pension, depending on your age, etc.,

50:52and so on, and you get a percentage, but

50:55um

50:56also, just the other follow-up is we

50:58didn't really get any answer. Did the

51:00employees were they folded into this

51:02discussion prior to this change and and

51:05at any point and I'll direct that to the

51:07mayor.

51:13You're You're muted, Charlie.

51:18>> Charlie, I think you're muted.

51:24>> Okay. Sorry.

51:25I can't use the crying baby as an

51:28excuse, but I'm sorry [laughter] about

51:29that.

51:30Um no, we did. I think I said earlier

51:33that um I wanted to make sure that the

51:36employees were on board before we rolled

51:38out this plan because uh without their

51:41without their cooperation and enthusiasm

51:44on doing this,

51:46um I didn't think it would be worthwhile

51:48to make the big effort and make the

51:50change if we didn't have the

51:52assurance that it was going to work and

51:54they were on on board. And so the

51:56answer, the short answer is yes. I did

51:59talk to the employees.

52:01>> Thank you. And I I just want to know

52:03myself that when discussing

52:06any reorganization or any um

52:09positions, I really don't I like to stay

52:11away from personalizing this as to

52:14so-and-so is going to do this and you

52:16know, we need to look at it from the

52:17point of view, which is what I'm looking

52:19at it from the point of view that these

52:21are just positions that are fillable and

52:24not I don't want to personalize it or

52:26even though there's people in these

52:28positions currently, I just think we

52:30need to stay away from personalization

52:33of uh

52:35of each position because that doesn't

52:37really get us anywhere in a discussion.

52:41Just just put two cents on that. I just

52:43think I like to put the facts you know,

52:45the Frank Friday, the

52:47what's the Sergeant Friday? Just the

52:49facts, ma'am.

52:49>> ma'am.

52:50>> Facts, ma'am.

52:52>> So thank Well, thank you, Christine.

52:53That those are good good um comments.

52:56Um, and I see Noble, you were letting me

52:58know that Mary and Steve had their hand

52:59up.

53:01Um

53:03So uh um

53:04>> I know, but I I got a lot of time into

53:06when I when you give give me the floor,

53:08but yeah.

53:09>> Well, no, you can you can go ahead. I um

53:12I thought you were just letting me know

53:13that their hands were up. I just saw

53:14them.

53:15>> That's it.

53:15>> There's so many people. There's like two

53:16pages here. So I'm like I have to keep

53:18going back and forth.

53:20So no, go ahead, Noble.

53:21>> That's why we all work together and so

53:23make sure everybody's taken care of. So

53:26um

53:27So I just want to reiterate like uh you

53:29know, it's 260 or 200

53:33you know, um

53:34200k. I mean, that's quarter million.

53:37Uh

53:38and I know that may sound like a drop in

53:40the bucket to a lot of people because we

53:42have a 400, you know, million dollar

53:45budget, but

53:46um

53:48you know

53:49uh Mr. Mayor and your your your staff

53:51have been telling us that, you know, the

53:53the our budget woes

53:55are projected to uh continue into next

53:59uh fiscal year and hopefully not longer

54:02than that, but it it could be. So,

54:05based on what

54:06y'all were telling us during the budget

54:09um season budget process

54:11um that 200 or 200 plus

54:15I mean, it will make a different I

54:17that's at least that's why I'm thinking

54:19that it will make a some difference in

54:22trying to

54:24um help us, you know, keep this uh

54:27budget um

54:28in under some kind of control and that

54:31we do not have to

54:33um you know, I don't want to speak for

54:35the administration like down the road,

54:37but uh if there's you know, tax

54:39increases that, you know, in the future

54:41if that were to happen uh I'm thinking

54:44that these uh this 200 million I mean, 2

54:47yeah, 200 K

54:49um

54:50could be, you know,

54:52uh some some relative significance and

54:55and I always want to try to um

54:59do things that will give, you know,

55:00there's more some more efficiency, but

55:03yet um

55:05respecting our our our staff and the

55:08people that are advising us as well as

55:12putting out the same or better product.

55:14And if we can do that all together with

55:18um with minor um bumps in the road

55:22uh because there's always going to be a

55:23bump in the road. Like I said, I've been

55:25through two major military or

55:27reorganizations

55:29always bumps in the road. That's why I

55:31ask questions about pitfalls.

55:34Um because you just have to just own

55:36that and recognize that and and when it

55:39does come or if it does come

55:41you we have the means to mitigate that.

55:44I feel comfortable that that mitigation

55:47is

55:48at least is being looked at and thought

55:50through and um I'm confident that

55:54administration has those tools at its

55:56disposal to deal with

55:58uh any um any anything that arises and

56:02anything that is uh

56:04an alarming um if it should come to that

56:07um

56:07I have the confidence that he'll come

56:08back and then we will have to um

56:11re-look at that.

56:12But I think we need to start somewhere

56:15and not just bury heads in the sand and

56:17say, "You know what? Well, you know,

56:20these budget cuts are hurting me but not

56:23somebody else so let them take the fall

56:25and you know, uh and it's so we we don't

56:28share in that responsibility cuz we all

56:31have to share in some of this pain. And

56:34um that's unfortunate. Um but that's the

56:37hard pill we have to swallow sometime.

56:40But that's all I want to say.

56:42>> Thanks, Noble. So, I see that Mary I see

56:45Mary McGill who's the

56:47president of the Friends of Callahan. I

56:50see that your hand is up, Mary. Would

56:51you like to say hello?

56:55>> Mute. There I am. Yes, can you hear me

56:57now?

56:58>> Hello, yes, we can. Go ahead.

57:00>> Good evening, Mayor and uh Madam Chair

57:02and everyone else.

57:03Uh I I'm sitting back and I'm listening

57:05to a couple little comment. One one

57:07particular comment and um

57:10I'm at the center a lot.

57:13A lot a lot.

57:15And I

57:16people. I know the people. I I love the

57:19staff

57:20and we talk. But what I've seen in the

57:22past 2 months has been incredible. I see

57:27a calmness

57:29come over them and I see things getting

57:31done.

57:33Not that they weren't done before,

57:35but they're getting done in a

57:37fashion that's helping our seniors.

57:40And I wish the people would not say

57:43negative things

57:45when they don't know all the facts.

57:49The center's a great place.

57:52And it's run efficiently, and I think

57:54it'll keep running efficiently. And I've

57:56met Don several times now, and and um

58:00Allison, we've met several times, and

58:02and it's just been great. And uh

58:05you all came to my meeting in June, and

58:08and you heard we all heard each other.

58:10And you all know we're all on the same

58:12page. We all want the best for everyone.

58:15I don't know how else to express this,

58:17but

58:18um I always tell people if you have

58:20negative thing, come to the center.

58:23Join the programs. Come and see what's

58:24happening. And then tell me how you

58:27feel.

58:28So, I just had to put my two cents in. I

58:31sit calmly, but sometimes I do get a

58:33little mad when I see things

58:35going the right way, or things I don't

58:38think they should be going that way, but

58:40yeah, I'm I'm going to stop now cuz I

58:43probably my 3 minutes is not up, but

58:45I am

58:47I just love the center, and it's been my

58:49home for the past 10 years.

58:52And uh I want to keep it being my home

58:54for the next 10 years, hopefully. Maybe

58:56if I can

58:57come up there, but I can do another 10,

58:5920 years, maybe.

59:00But anyway, thanks for having me.

59:01>> 30. You got 30.

59:03>> I would love to do 30.

59:05>> Thank you so much.

59:07>> Thank you.

59:08>> Mary, thank you for your comments. And

59:10Mary is the Friends of Callahan

59:13chairman or president. I don't know what

59:15we

59:16uh

59:17>> What

59:18>> Yeah.

59:18>> Chair? Madam Chair?

59:20>> President. I'm president.

59:21>> President.

59:21>> President.

59:22>> Yes. Well, you do a great job there. You

59:24have a great following, and you're

59:26adored there. So, thank you for all you

59:28do.

59:29>> And I love it. It's It's It's my

59:31passion. I I get up in the morning and I

59:33say, "Oh my gosh,

59:34what what can I do now? What can we do

59:36now?" And And been doing that and It's

59:39super. We're going to actually start a

59:41listening hour every second Tuesday and

59:44we're going to listen to the people.

59:46We're going to have little snacks for

59:47them. I shouldn't say that, but little

59:49snacks, coffee and tea and just come and

59:52talk to us. Tell us what you want. Tell

59:54us your concerns

59:56and tell us what you'd like to see in

59:57the future. So, and then I'll share that

59:59with Noelia

1:00:00and and and Dawn and I'll share with you

1:00:03guys also.

1:00:05But, thank you.

1:00:05>> Right. Thank you so much.

1:00:08Um Now, so I see also Steve Kiviat.

1:00:11Steve

1:00:13is also on the Friends of Callahan

1:00:15board. He's a former vice chair of the

1:00:16Council on Aging.

1:00:20Go ahead, Steve.

1:00:21>> Well,

1:00:22thank you, everybody. Um I work with

1:00:25Mary

1:00:26and I also spend a lot of time at the

1:00:28Callahan. And when I hear negative

1:00:30things about the Callahan and the way

1:00:32it's run,

1:00:33I find it very aggravating, especially

1:00:36when people are talking about petitions

1:00:38and how many signatures there are.

1:00:41Of all those people who signed these

1:00:42petitions, how many actually visit the

1:00:45Callahan and spend time there?

1:00:48The place is absolutely amazing. The

1:00:51morale has never been higher than it is.

1:00:54There are things going on there

1:00:56just amazing. We have a new kitchen

1:00:58going in there, a crosswalk,

1:01:01new tables in the um

1:01:04in in the room. It's You have to come

1:01:07and see it. There is nothing wrong with

1:01:10being first.

1:01:11If this is an experiment, I'm all for

1:01:14it.

1:01:15And many of the people on the Friends

1:01:17board and even the the guests at the

1:01:20Callahan, you have to see it rather than

1:01:23complain about it. And you know, that's

1:01:26it for me.

1:01:29>> Thank you, Steve. Appreciate your

1:01:30comments.

1:01:32So, I just see if there's anybody else

1:01:35that has their hand up.

1:01:38Let me just see if anybody wants to make

1:01:41any more comments.

1:01:42Um

1:01:45Christine, would you like to make a

1:01:46motion or like do you have another

1:01:48comment?

1:01:49>> I'll just

1:01:50>> Question.

1:01:50>> I'll just make one more comment. Thank

1:01:52you, Madam Chairman, that uh there's

1:01:54like 74,000 people in Framingham.

1:01:57So, I think a petition with what, a few

1:02:00hundred signatures isn't a giant portion

1:02:04of the whole population of Framingham.

1:02:07So.

1:02:09>> No, and I think that's a good point

1:02:11because I said I had said somewhere you

1:02:14know, when I was kind of getting beat up

1:02:15on Facebook,

1:02:17I said that I would probably sign it,

1:02:19too, if somebody showed up a to you

1:02:20know, gave me a petition and said, "Sign

1:02:22this, you know, they're getting rid of

1:02:23the senior senior whatever, you know,

1:02:26they're cutting the seniors." I'd be

1:02:27like, "I'll sign it." Like, of course I

1:02:29would, but there you know, it's not it's

1:02:32more than that. That's just a small

1:02:33piece of it. It's it's you know, if the

1:02:35seniors were getting

1:02:37short-changed, that would be another

1:02:38story. But I think that this was

1:02:41like I said, I'm not going to be

1:02:42repetitive, but I think that we see

1:02:44what's going on down there. Um we see

1:02:46Noelia and Terry who is also

1:02:50unbelievable as programs director. Um

1:02:53they're getting it done and they've been

1:02:54getting it done. And I think that that

1:02:56is what we need to look at. And you

1:02:59know, you're hearing from them. I got a

1:03:00call from somebody who was having an

1:03:02issue with somebody

1:03:03on the street, separate thing, and I was

1:03:05just talking to her and she volunteers

1:03:08at the center.

1:03:09And uh she would could not stop talking

1:03:12about the programs and how they there's

1:03:16dance part you know, they got a dance

1:03:17teacher You can't get into that program

1:03:19and then there's this program. They got

1:03:21a guy doing, I don't know, Zumba or

1:03:22there I couldn't keep track, but

1:03:25she she volunteers down there and you

1:03:27would think that, you know,

1:03:29you know, like it's her life. It's her

1:03:31life and she has just been going on and

1:03:34on.

1:03:35I mean, I'm like, but you need to call

1:03:36me about something else and she just

1:03:38went into the senior center and how

1:03:39great it was and how everyone's

1:03:41wonderful and how the programs are, you

1:03:44know, booming and expanding and um she

1:03:47just couldn't say enough things about it

1:03:48and she was also telling me how people

1:03:50come from other towns and that how we

1:03:52blow the senior centers around us out of

1:03:55the water. So, I just thought that was

1:03:57kind of cool to hear cuz you don't think

1:03:59about that. I mean, you know, you want

1:04:00to know metrics, you know, you look at

1:04:03us versus other, you know, you

1:04:04Framingham has a lot of really good

1:04:06things that we stand alone in and I

1:04:07think this senior center, I think our

1:04:09library's also, um and I would stand up

1:04:12for a housing authority, um which I was

1:04:14a member of once and I didn't realize

1:04:16how fabulous we were until you got to

1:04:18see other scene um housing authorities

1:04:21around the

1:04:22um the area. We really do stand out in a

1:04:25lot um a lot of places and these are one

1:04:29I mean, these are a couple and

1:04:31I still have to get back to her on her

1:04:33issue that she called on, but um

1:04:35I just thought it was really cool to

1:04:36hear

1:04:38it from somebody that's a volunteer

1:04:39there, Framingham resident and a

1:04:41long-time senior that has gone there and

1:04:44you know, she just you you know, it

1:04:46basically made her forget about her

1:04:47problems. So, I I still have to get back

1:04:49to her on that, but um I just wanted to

1:04:52add that piece in and and I agree with

1:04:54you, Christine, on that other point and

1:04:56it's not to say that the folks that

1:04:57signed a petition have or don't have

1:04:59valid concerns, but I think that, you

1:05:01know, there is the other side of, you

1:05:04know, that whole, you know,

1:05:06you know, it it it was,

1:05:08you know, not really what, you know,

1:05:10what what happened. So,

1:05:12um

1:05:13anybody else, um any last comments? I

1:05:16see Christine or Novel?

1:05:19>> So, yeah, I just wanted to Novel, didn't

1:05:22you have questions that you wanted

1:05:24answered prior to making any kind of

1:05:26motions?

1:05:28>> Yeah, it was more mainly about like the

1:05:30metrics, what

1:05:32you know, that type of thing and yeah,

1:05:35they're pretty much satisfied that

1:05:39but my I guess my last

1:05:41comment really is that

1:05:44you know

1:05:46I go back to what I was saying in the in

1:05:47the beginning like these are I recognize

1:05:49these are very two treasured and beloved

1:05:54institutions and things that we hold

1:05:57dear in in this city and this community.

1:06:00So,

1:06:01we're very proud, you know,

1:06:04that I'm sure talking about the you

1:06:05know, how the pride of you know, the

1:06:07things that we we do very well and that

1:06:10is people from outside Framingham,

1:06:14they they, you know, they comment,

1:06:18you know, on what we have. I mean, I

1:06:20hear about our roads, you know, during

1:06:23winter about the DPW and I hear about

1:06:27our library in certain,

1:06:29you know, quarters even from places

1:06:31where I work. I work in Belmont and I

1:06:33hear

1:06:34occasionally about some of our services

1:06:37that you know, people will go out if

1:06:41they're here in the area

1:06:42going to Walmart or something, they'll

1:06:44go into our library and that kind of

1:06:45thing. So,

1:06:47we we, you know, my grandmother used to

1:06:49have a saying about like your name goes

1:06:51further than you ever will

1:06:53and that is very true.

1:06:56So, you know, we we we try to hold on to

1:06:59things that we do well in and do it

1:07:02better

1:07:04and I'm trying to see this in that same

1:07:05vein and I also want to like just kind

1:07:08of put it out there for

1:07:09the people that are, you know, not in

1:07:12favor of this, but you know, I I always

1:07:15um

1:07:16you know,

1:07:16think about like when I was in the

1:07:17military, like, you know, if you're ever

1:07:20going to put something in a suggestion

1:07:22box down by the commander's office,

1:07:25well, you better have a solution or a

1:07:29proposed solution to whatever you're

1:07:31going to put in that box. So, all I've

1:07:34heard was this is the maintain um that

1:07:37all

1:07:38the

1:07:39vast majority of the emails I've seen is

1:07:41like maintain the service, maintain this

1:07:43and that.

1:07:44Um but given our budget constraints,

1:07:47if if those people were in our shoes,

1:07:50I'd like to know like what other

1:07:52options that they would have

1:07:56um for us to do

1:07:58and trying to,

1:07:59you know, cut some of our budget, make

1:08:02it a little bit leaner, our efficiency

1:08:04better, but yet give out the same amount

1:08:06of services or even better in some

1:08:09cases. Uh yeah, I I I just I haven't

1:08:12heard like plan C from anybody in that

1:08:16camp or in

1:08:19and on that side, so um you know, in in

1:08:22our position, we have to kind of look at

1:08:23everything left, right, center, and

1:08:25behind, and front. And uh and so

1:08:29uh given that um and that this is um you

1:08:33know, a pretty significant

1:08:36merger.

1:08:37Uh yeah, I just want to say that that's

1:08:39kind of what we're looking at, how we're

1:08:40looking at it, and uh and if you don't

1:08:43have a viable solution to the complaint,

1:08:48I don't know what to tell you because

1:08:49we're trying to come up with that. So.

1:08:53Thank you.

1:08:53>> Sure. No, thank you for that. And

1:08:55remember the first plan or originally

1:08:57that came forward was cutting library

1:08:59hours. That was the first go-around when

1:09:01the budget came out. So, there was some

1:09:03moving parts to this and I think that

1:09:05this is a much better

1:09:07um we've actually got to a really good

1:09:09point um from where we originally

1:09:11started. And you know, I just want to

1:09:13also add like I know we were talking

1:09:15about the senior center um we kind of

1:09:17got off um we went a little into the

1:09:20accolades of them. I don't want to you

1:09:21know, forget the parks because

1:09:24I mean clearly the parks you could say

1:09:26the same thing for with people you know,

1:09:29wanting to come to framing him because

1:09:30of our programs that we have. Um

1:09:33I mean just for somebody whose kids are

1:09:35you know, I little ones now that are

1:09:37coming along that

1:09:38that are you know, going to be doing

1:09:40some of this stuff the parks and the

1:09:42programs are outstanding and I know

1:09:44people in other towns that wish their

1:09:46towns had what we have. So, I know we

1:09:48kind of went off you know, about the

1:09:50senior certainly didn't want um you

1:09:53know, Jim Allison you know, our park

1:09:56people that work extremely hard and our

1:09:58programming that we have going on there

1:10:00because you can put that in that

1:10:01category as well. So, I didn't want to

1:10:03leave you guys out or make you uh you

1:10:05know, not make that point because to me

1:10:07that is a hugely valid point that um

1:10:11you know, that you have unless you don't

1:10:12have you know, if you don't have kids

1:10:14that you've seen

1:10:15um be able to go through these programs

1:10:17um you know, you don't see the value and

1:10:19they work extremely hard and I think

1:10:23that you know, very lucky to have such

1:10:24dedicated people and programs and we

1:10:27really was really trying to make it a

1:10:28stronger on all ends. So,

1:10:31um so, I guess maybe

1:10:33what what was a what we have to do now

1:10:36is we we have to take a vote um

1:10:40and so, Kate is here just in case any

1:10:41legal questions came up. So, basically

1:10:44we we are voting to make favorable

1:10:47action to send towards to this send this

1:10:50to the city council at our next meeting

1:10:52or we vote

1:10:54to take a an unfavorable action and

1:10:58present to the city council. Am I

1:10:59correct in that, Kate? I just want to

1:11:01make sure I

1:11:03dot all the, you know, eyes and cross

1:11:05the t's.

1:11:06>> Yes, Madam Chair. Your your vote is

1:11:08either to report it out favorably to the

1:11:10city council um for for approval or

1:11:13report it out unfavorably.

1:11:16>> Okay, thank you. Um and then one of the

1:11:19last thing, I know that we have a quorum

1:11:20of council members on here tonight. So,

1:11:23if any did want to speak, you know, in

1:11:25case anyone's like, "Why didn't they

1:11:26speak?" We can't by open meeting uh cuz

1:11:29there's three of us on this committee

1:11:31and I believe there's six or seven on

1:11:33the on the the meeting. So,

1:11:35the only three that can speak are here,

1:11:37but obviously they have the ability to

1:11:40speak at our meeting on Tuesday. So, I

1:11:42just in case anyone was wondering. So,

1:11:45with that, um I would take a motion if

1:11:47somebody wants to make the motion to

1:11:50move forward um

1:11:52>> Madam Chair, so move the question.

1:11:56>> Okay, and then was the question to take

1:11:58a favorable action? Is that what the

1:11:59motion is?

1:12:01>> to uh present it to city council to

1:12:03reordin

1:12:04uh the mayor's plan to reor reorganize

1:12:06the the the parks and rec and library.

1:12:11>> I second it.

1:12:12>> And yes.

1:12:13>> Okay, so the motion is to accept the

1:12:16merger,

1:12:17the language of the merger, and move

1:12:19forward to our next city council meeting

1:12:21for a final vote. At the second reading,

1:12:24we had a public hearing and a first

1:12:26reading at our last city council

1:12:27meeting. So, this would go to the second

1:12:30reading, final reading,

1:12:32and this would be the um role of this

1:12:35task uh of this ad hoc committee is it's

1:12:38in the, I believe, the city council

1:12:40rules that it has to go to an ad hoc

1:12:42committee and then get referred to.

1:12:45And if I said anything wrong, Kate, just

1:12:46let me know.

1:12:47>> Madam Chair, because you have a virtual

1:12:50meeting, you have to call the vote by

1:12:52roll for the committee members.

1:12:55>> Excellent. Okay, thank you. So, we have

1:12:57a motion made and we have a motion

1:12:58seconded. So, I will take the vote. Um

1:13:02uh Noble?

1:13:04>> I say yes.

1:13:06>> Uh Christine?

1:13:07>> Yes.

1:13:08>> And myself, yes. So, it is unanimous.

1:13:11It's passed to the city council 3-0.

1:13:14Um

1:13:15and I just want to thank everybody for

1:13:17coming tonight. I know everybody was

1:13:18very busy. Um I do want to you know,

1:13:21thank you for your time and for the

1:13:23people that called in, the volunteers on

1:13:25the boards and you know, residents

1:13:27um for you know, you calling in and also

1:13:31Brian, I know you're you know, doing

1:13:33something tonight. So, thank you for

1:13:34that.

1:13:35And uh on that, I will take a motion to

1:13:38adjourn.

1:13:39>> So moved.

1:13:40>> I second.

1:13:42>> Okay, all in favor? Christine?

1:13:44>> Yes.

1:13:46>> Noble?

1:13:47>> [clears throat]

1:13:48>> Yes.

1:13:50>> And myself, yes. Okay, guys. Thank you

1:13:52so much again and we'll see you guys at

1:13:54the next meeting um on August 18th, city

1:13:57council. Have a great night. Thanks,

1:14:00guys. Take care.

1:14:02>> [music]

1:14:26[music]