2026-10-22 - Transportation and Public Utilities Committee
Summary
Based on the auto-generated captions of the video; names and numbers may be misheard (captions render councillors' names inconsistently: "Zuse", "Zubi" and "Ziemba" are Catherine Zusy; "Sabrina Wheeler" is almost certainly Jivan Sobrinho-Wheeler). Roughly the last five minutes of the recording are city public-service videos, not part of the meeting.
Hearing called by chair Councillor Flaherty (co-chair with Zusy) on autonomous vehicles and robotaxis such as Waymo and their effects on transportation, public safety, accessibility, labor and the community. It was a discussion only; no votes other than adjournment, and it ended by a roll-call vote of 3 to 0 with two members recorded absent. See Autonomous Vehicles and Robotaxis.
- City presentation (Transportation Commissioner Brooke McKinnon, name as captioned): a primer on driving-automation levels 0 to 5 (Waymo is level 4, with no level 5 yet). Massachusetts does not allow driverless operation: there is no regulatory framework and Waymo cars here carry safety drivers. A 2026 state update created statewide testing permits; four autonomous-vehicle bills this session were sent to study, so nothing is pending until after January. Waymo runs about 4,000 vehicles and 500,000 paid rides a week, and visited Boston for six weeks of data collection. City concerns: AVs must be shared rather than privately owned or congestion from empty "deadhead" miles gets worse; state or federal rules would likely preempt local control, as with ride-share; safety evidence is mixed (Waymo claims 73 percent fewer crashes but recalled nearly 4,000 vehicles); first-responder training and enforcement when no one is driving; cybersecurity, privacy, curb use, equity and transit impacts.
- Labor testimony: Teamsters Joint Council 10, the App Drivers Union (SEIU 32BJ, about 70,000 Uber and Lyft drivers, now negotiating the first rideshare-driver contract), Boston Carmen's Union Local 589 and the Greater Boston Labor Council urged the committee to "put the brakes" on Waymo: job loss, safety incidents in other cities, weather limits, surveillance and possible immigration-enforcement access to footage, and bias in detecting darker-skinned people. They cited polls with 74 to 78 percent of Massachusetts voters opposed. A rideshare driver and a waste-hauler described the personal stakes.
- Accessibility (Rachel Tannenhaus, city ADA coordinator): offered a mixed view. Robotaxis could be a "game-changer" for blind people and people with intellectual disabilities, and avoid discrimination against service-dog users, but Waymo operates no wheelchair-accessible vehicle anywhere, passengers dropped in the wrong place have no human to call, and controls must meet accessibility standards.
- Public comment: three signed up, two spoke (Teamsters Local 25 member Michael Ortiz and rideshare driver Priscila Polanco, names as captioned); both opposed Waymo.
- Councillors: Patricia Nolan was open to AVs eventually but said the city is "nowhere near" ready, stressed good union jobs and surveillance concerns, and asked whether there was a specific ask; Flaherty said no specific ask yet, but a follow-up hearing is likely, especially if a testing or pilot program is proposed in Cambridge. Catherine Zusy argued shared autonomous vehicles are the sustainable future and urged working with the unions. Marc McGovern (not a committee member) said a car on the road is still a car on the road and the answer to congestion is transit, and warned against telling working-class drivers to "just retrain"; he supports Cambridge helping shape state rules. Flaherty urged caution and said he will research the state's testing standards. Also present: Mayor Sumbul Siddiqui.
- Next steps: none voted; a follow-up committee hearing is expected, with attention on any Waymo pilot proposal and on the legislature.
Agenda
Hearing on autonomous vehicles and robotaxis (agenda summarized from the video).
Sources
Video
Transcript
These are auto-generated captions; names and numbers may be misheard.
Transcript
01:59Mhm.
04:08>> [snorts]
04:30>> Good afternoon, everyone. I'm going to
04:32call today's transportation and public
04:34utilities committee meeting to order.
04:38The call of today's meeting is to
04:39discuss the emergent emergence
04:42of of autonomous vehicles and
04:45robo-taxis, such as Waymo,
04:48uh
04:48>> [snorts]
04:48>> and the potential future impacts on
04:50transportation, public safety,
04:52accessibility, labor unions, and the
04:54community.
04:55The first order of business is a roll
04:57call of members present.
05:00>> Vice Mayor Azeem.
05:01>> Present.
05:01>> Present. Councillor Flaherty.
05:03>> Present.
05:04>> Present. Councillor Nolan.
05:05>> Present.
05:06>> Present. Councillor Zubi.
05:08>> Present.
05:09>> Present. Councillor Zuse.
05:12Absent. That's four members present and
05:14one recorded as absent.
05:15>> We also have uh Councillor McGovern and
05:17Councillor Nolan
05:19uh
05:20and Mayor Siddiqui present.
05:23Um
05:25So, pursuant to chapter two of the acts
05:27of 2025 adopted by the Massachusetts
05:31General Court and approved by the
05:32governor, the city is authorized
05:34to use remote participation at meetings
05:36of the Cambridge City Council and its
05:38committees. Please note that the city of
05:40Cambridge audio and video records this
05:42meeting and makes it available to the
05:44public for future viewing. Third parties
05:46may also be
05:48uh audio and video recording this
05:50meeting. In addition to having members
05:52of the council participate remotely, we
05:54have also set up Zoom teleconference for
05:56public conference.
05:58Each speaker will have 2 minutes. If you
06:00would like to provide public comment,
06:02please visit the city council section of
06:05the city's webpage. Instructions for how
06:07to sign up to speak are posted there.
06:09Once you have completed sign-up
06:10procedure,
06:12you will receive a link to the Zoom
06:13meeting. You can also email written
06:16comments for the record to the city
06:17clerk at cityclerk@mass
06:22uh dot gov. To watch this meeting,
06:24please tune into channel 22 or visit the
06:26open meeting portal on the city website.
06:29Uh with that, all today's vote, if any,
06:31will be by roll call.
06:34So,
06:35joining us uh here today from the uh
06:38labor community are Bridget Quinn, who's
06:40a legislative director for Teamsters
06:43Joint Council 10, New England,
06:45uh Autumn Wein Traub, who's the
06:47executive director for App Drivers Union
06:50Union 32BG,
06:53SEIU, uh
06:55Abdi Abdi Zaz Samanta from the App
06:59Drivers Union, Scott Page from the
07:01Commons Union 589,
07:04and Darlene Lombos, president of the
07:07Greater Boston Labor Council. From the
07:08city,
07:09we've got Brooke McKinnon, who's the
07:11commissioner of the Department of
07:13Transportation, Jack Parenti,
07:16assistant commissioner for street
07:17management,
07:19uh Stephanie McQuaid, assistant
07:21commissioner for parking management,
07:24Rachel Tanenhaus, who's the executive
07:26direct director
07:28uh for ADA, and Stephanie Groll, who's
07:31the assistant commissioner
07:33of transportation and planning.
07:36So,
07:37um with that,
07:40I guess we will open it up
07:43uh for the city to make its
07:44presentation. Commissioner Mechanic.
07:49Good afternoon and thank you for being
07:51here and I appreciate everyone's
07:52attendance and let's have a
07:54conversation.
07:55>> Great, thank you for having us.
07:57Um my presentation will be relatively
08:00short and it's really just kind of a
08:03general high-level overview about
08:05autonomous vehicles, um kind of setting
08:07the stage for future conversations.
08:10So, uh I'll start off talking a little
08:12bit just generally about autonomous
08:15vehicles, uh talking about the status of
08:17AVs in Massachusetts,
08:19kind of the general current state of
08:21where AV development is, and then some
08:24general considerations um that we'll
08:26look into um you know, as conversations
08:29continue here.
08:31Um if we could can we move forward the
08:34PowerPoint forward?
08:38Yep, you can keep going.
08:40Yep, two more, I think.
08:44Yes, so we'll start off with
08:45understanding autonomous vehicles
08:48and we can go to the next slide.
08:51Um so basically there are um kind of the
08:55uh
08:57general definitions of autonomous levels
08:59of autonomous driving.
09:01Start with level zero and go up through
09:03level five and on my next slide I'll
09:05have some examples of each of these
09:07levels, but generally at no automation
09:10is kind of most of the cars that we're
09:12driving or that you're seeing on the
09:13street right now. Um there are, you
09:16know, certain levels of like safety
09:18measures that are built into a lot of
09:20cars on the vehicle these days, but they
09:22don't actually count as automation. So,
09:25um
09:26from there you go up to level one, which
09:28is driver assistance that um if you're
09:31driving a newer car, uh many of the
09:34newer models have some levels of driver
09:36assistance, things that could either
09:38help you with steering or with speed, um
09:41but the driver is always uh in control
09:44um and responsible for all functionality
09:46at that point.
09:47At level two, the car can help with both
09:50steering and speed, um but again, the
09:53driver is still responsible for being
09:55100% in control and always able to take
09:59over from the autonomous functions of
10:02the car at any moment. Um level three is
10:05when you really start getting into more
10:08um autonomy, and there are very limited
10:11examples that I'll show on the next
10:12slide of cars at this level. This is
10:14really kind of the cutting edge of
10:16what's available to the general public.
10:19Um and at level four, you get to what is
10:21truly autonomous driving,
10:23um such as the Waymo vehicles that are
10:25out there now.
10:26Um
10:27but these are
10:30the autonomous operation requires a lot
10:33of
10:34uh sensors and mapping and kind of a
10:38prior information about the environment
10:41in which they're operating.
10:43And then, the fine And the difference
10:45between level four and level five is, in
10:46theory, because no level five exists
10:49right now, um an a level five autonomous
10:52car could just go anywhere without any
10:54prior knowledge and be able to operate.
10:56And we are not there yet. So, at level
10:59four, which is the highest level
11:00available right now, it a lot of mapping
11:03goes into it, a lot of pre-sensing. And
11:05so, when a vehicle is operating at level
11:07four, they're doing so inside like a set
11:11um geographic area that has been mapped
11:13and sensed and provided information for
11:16the algorithms um that run the car.
11:19So, we can go to the next slide.
11:23Um so again, most of what's on the road
11:25right now is level zero.
11:27Um newer cars have some things like
11:31adaptive car control, steering, uh lane
11:33keep, things that help you from from um
11:36drifting into the next lane, but again
11:38with the driver fully responsible. Uh
11:41vehicles like Tesla, GM Super Cruise,
11:43Mercedes Drive Assist, those are level
11:45two,
11:46um which have, you know, kind of
11:49numerous examples of the way that the
11:51autonomy can help the driver, but again
11:54the driver has to be in control all the
11:55time.
11:56Um so, level three, there are only a
11:59couple of examples of level three
12:02commercially available. So, Mercedes has
12:04one in the US,
12:06but they are only authorized in
12:09California and Nevada on um
12:12predetermined
12:14highways
12:15under 40 mph and following another
12:18vehicle. So, at this level, while they
12:21are level three, they are still very
12:23limited in how they're operating, and
12:24there are example similar examples in
12:26Japan and in Europe.
12:29Uh so, the the most well-known example
12:31of level four is the Waymo taxis, and
12:34again, there are no no examples of level
12:37five at this point.
12:39Uh we can go to the next slide.
12:42Um so, this is the status of things here
12:44in Massachusetts. You can go to the next
12:46slide. Um so, Massachusetts is taking a
12:50very slow and cautious approach on
12:52self-driving cars and um fully
12:55driverless cars are not allowed to
12:57operate on on Massachusetts roads as of
13:00now. Um so, there are no uh there's no
13:03regulatory framework, um no laws that
13:06would allow this to happen. Um so, if
13:10you do, and people and we're hearing a
13:12lot from people who are seeing Waymo
13:13cars out on the road, um there are
13:15always safety drivers in those cars at
13:18this point. I will say I've seen them
13:20myself, and sometimes it can be a little
13:22hard to see the safety driver. They can
13:24sit uh the way the seating is, they're
13:27kind of blocked by the by the edge of
13:29the window.
13:30But, um they are
13:33always with a driver. Um
13:37So, again, the state is is really
13:39prioritizing safety and careful planning
13:41over so the really rapid expansion that
13:44some states have opted to do.
13:46Next slide.
13:49Um so, autonomous vehicle testing is
13:51allowed, um but with strict safety
13:55guidelines. Um so, Massachusetts has had
13:58a framework since 2016,
14:00uh co- uh companies are able to uh
14:03follow a set of procedures to get
14:05permissions to test self-driving cars,
14:07but there again is always a trained
14:09driver in the seat when that testing is
14:11happening, and they are able to take
14:14over at any time.
14:15Um in 2026, the state updated their
14:18guidelines and created a more consistent
14:21process for AV testing. Uh previously,
14:24uh um a company that wanted to test
14:26would have to have an agreement not just
14:28with MassDOT, but also with each
14:29individual municipality. So, the 2026
14:33update streamlined that, so there's a
14:35statewide permitting system.
14:37They put in some good rules about around
14:39insurance and data sharing, and just
14:42reconfirm that um any AV testing must
14:45follow all existing traffic laws.
14:48Can go to the next slide.
14:51So, during this uh current legislative
14:54session, there have been four separate
14:56bills um around autonomous vehicles.
14:59Two of them um
15:01uh a a house and a senate bill
15:04uh
15:05the pairs one pair was kind of uh
15:08more towards moving autonomous vehicles
15:11forward and making it easier for
15:12autonomous vehicles to operate in the
15:13state, and the second one
15:16was a little more focused on safety and
15:19requiring safety drivers. However, all
15:21four of those bills were sent to study,
15:25which is I guess the State House way of
15:26saying that they were dying without a
15:29vote. So, all of those expired or were
15:33sent to study over the summer, I
15:35believe, and will not be moving forward
15:37this legislative session. So, either
15:40those bills could be refiled after
15:42January or new bills, different bills
15:45could be filed as well. So, as of now,
15:47there is nothing on the docket to be
15:49discussed during the
15:51legislative session.
15:53Uh next
15:55next slide.
15:56Uh
15:57and this is we can keep going to the
15:58next one.
16:00Um So, basically, kind of this is not
16:03just Massachusetts, but everywhere. So,
16:06um for robo taxis, Waymo is the only
16:08commercially operating um robo taxi
16:11company.
16:13Um they have about 4,000 vehicles and
16:15500,000 paid rides a week. Um and again,
16:19they're they're operating in geo-fenced
16:21areas where they have already done a lot
16:23of mapping and and survey before they go
16:26into an area. Um and then there is also
16:29uh Zoox, which is um
16:33also operating just doing demo rides,
16:35not actual commercial service. And this
16:38is the second picture down on the slide,
16:40and it's interesting cuz this is the
16:42first autonomous vehicle that got
16:44permission from the federal government
16:45to not have a steering wheel.
16:47So, that is a small little car that can
16:50go forward and backward. Um it's
16:53bidirectional and does not have a
16:55steering wheel, and they're approved by
16:57the federal government to have up to
16:582,500 vehicles a year. Um but again, not
17:02um commercially operating yet.
17:04Uh next slide.
17:08Um on the goods and cargo side, um
17:12there is Nuro autonomous delivery pods
17:15operating in three states um that do
17:18kind of lower speed last mile delivery
17:21um and that's the picture you can see on
17:23the screen. Um and then there is a
17:25autonomous large trucking um happening
17:28on some corridors in the western part of
17:30the of the country that are used for
17:33longer haul um and not the kind of last
17:36mile deliveries.
17:38Next slide.
17:42Um so Waymo um came to Boston for the
17:45first time last May uh to do data
17:49collection and testing. They were here
17:50for about 6 weeks and they went around
17:52the greater Boston area. Again, there
17:55was always a human um driver behind the
17:57wheel.
17:58And according to Waymo, their purpose
18:00was to validate its driver system their
18:03its autonomous driving system in our
18:05challenging conditions. So, rain, snow,
18:07narrow lanes, and complex intersections.
18:10Um
18:11so they came last spring and left, but
18:14they came back at some point and they
18:16can be seen regularly in the area. Um
18:19and I think they've very clearly
18:20indicated that Boston is a market that
18:23they are hoping to move into.
18:25Uh next slide. But again, because we do
18:27not have a regulatory framework right
18:30now, they are not able to do that.
18:32Um and again, you know, they see Boston
18:35as an area where they can really prove
18:36themselves if they can um
18:39uh if they can operate here, they can
18:40operate anywhere with between our street
18:42network, our weather, and our drivers.
18:45Um one person that I
18:48that I saw on Reddit said uh
18:50Massachusetts is the final boss for
18:52autonomous driving.
18:55Next slide.
18:57Um so these are some general
18:58considerations um you know, that we'll
19:00have to be thinking about uh moving
19:03forward. And one thing I'll say is I
19:04haven't included in here two probably
19:07the two two most important
19:09considerations, which is labor issues
19:12and um accessibility issues and I left
19:14those off of my presentation because we
19:16have uh people much much better prepared
19:20and and ready to talk about those issues
19:22as soon as I'm done.
19:24Um so first and foremost and this is
19:26something that you know is very
19:28very important from the transportation
19:31system perspective is that
19:33we have the future of autonomous
19:35vehicles have to be shared. If everyone
19:38owns their own autonomous vehicles,
19:40congestion will be
19:42significantly worse than it is now
19:45because right now um
19:48we don't have individual people with
19:50deadhead miles, right? So deadhead miles
19:52are are times when it's either you could
19:54say it about a ride share or about a
19:56taxi where the vehicle is driving around
19:59and not actually getting someone, you
20:01know, from place A to place B. So with
20:03an autonomous vehicle, the potential is
20:06there that you could have someone owning
20:08their own individual AV, you know, ride
20:11to work in their car, send their car off
20:13to drive around all day because there's
20:15no parking available, and then come back
20:17and pick them up at the end of the day.
20:19So you can imagine how much congestion
20:22that would add to our roadways. So it's
20:23really important that as we're thinking
20:25about regulations moving forward, we're
20:27really looking to make this a shared
20:29future
20:30um and not individual ownership. And
20:33this is especially important because you
20:36can see in the graph here that the cost
20:37of autonomous vehicles are is falling
20:39really fast. So in the past it's always
20:42been, "Oh, it's always going to be too
20:43expensive for individual ownership." But
20:46they're now saying that by 2030, they're
20:48estimating that the cost will be below
20:50$50,000
20:52uh for an autonomous vehicle.
20:54Uh next next slide. Um so again um an
21:00an interesting {slash} concerning um
21:03issue related to regulations is that
21:05well, right now there's no regulatory
21:07framework in place.
21:09That could change at any time at the
21:10state or federal level and that
21:13regulation would very likely preempt any
21:16local controls. And we saw this happen
21:18when the ride-share industry first came
21:20in came into being that um
21:24regulation on the state and federal
21:25level or on the state level primarily
21:27preempted all local controls and it's
21:29really been a negative thing for
21:31municipalities to have no ability to get
21:34information from ride-share companies,
21:36uh regulate them in any way. So,
21:39it's unlikely that we can do anything to
21:41stop um
21:43preemption at the state or federal
21:45level, but it just means it's all the
21:47more important that we try to have our
21:49say in developing those regulations.
21:52Next slide.
21:55Um so, related to road safety, I mean
21:58the general understanding is that
22:00ultimately autonomous vehicles will be a
22:03huge safety boon. Um if they're
22:05implemented well. Um you know, there are
22:08some statistics up there. I think that
22:10we really don't know yet. A lot of these
22:12are just estimates, but um it is likely
22:15that done well AVs could be a safety
22:17boon. Um however, that's really going to
22:19depend on
22:21what percentage of the fleet out there
22:23on the streets is autonomous and it's
22:25very likely that during this an in
22:27kind of an in-between period it's going
22:30to be very challenging when there are a
22:31lot of AVs, but still a lot of non-AVs
22:34on the street. So, it's just another
22:35con- consideration. Um Waymo does report
22:39that their vehicles are have 73% less um
22:43crashes than human drivers, but the flip
22:46side of that is they also had to recall
22:48almost 4,000 vehicles um because of
22:51incidents that were happening in
22:53construction zones. So, there are
22:54certainly still significant safety
22:56challenges with AVs as they stand right
22:58now.
23:00Uh next slide.
23:03Um, regarding public safety, um,
23:06it's another area where Waymo in cities
23:09where they've been operating are having
23:10significant impacts. Um,
23:13whatever happens, um,
23:16uh, uh, first responders will need to
23:18have significant training around how to
23:20deal with autonomous vehicles on the
23:22road, whether it's, you know, in the
23:24shorter term, probably Waymo. Um, you
23:26know, they when a Waymo gets confused,
23:30it stops. And that it they often get
23:32confused when they're coming across, uh,
23:35you know, an emergency response a
23:37location where an emergency response is
23:39happening. Um, they in the past have had
23:42trouble responding to humans directing
23:44traffic, um, which is challenging when
23:47you know that that happens whenever
23:49there's any sort of incident. Um, so
23:51we'll need to first responders will need
23:54to do a lot of coordination and training
23:55around how to deal with AVs as they come
23:57onto the, um, onto the area. And then
23:59there's still the legal issue of how do
24:01you enforce, uh, traffic regulations
24:04when there is no, um, driver.
24:06So that's something that needs to be
24:08worked out. Uh, next slide.
24:12Um, so just for the for, uh, to keep
24:15things short, I just wanted to run very
24:17quickly. There definitely things we need
24:19to be thinking about very seriously
24:21around cybersecurity, privacy, data
24:23governance, curb usage, equity, transit
24:26impacts, and infrastructure needs. Um,
24:29so there is there's a that we're at the
24:32very beginning of these conversations
24:33and there is a lot to explore as we move
24:35forward. Um, so I think that's my last
24:38slide.
24:40All right, so I will
24:43>> Thank you very much.
24:45Um,
24:46I think
24:48that, um,
24:52would you would you be presenting on
24:54behalf of, uh,
24:56the team says or will it be someone
24:58else?
24:58>> Obviously the
25:00Okay. So, why don't we go to Bridj
25:01Quinn?
25:08>> Good afternoon, councilors and staff.
25:11Thank you so much for calling this
25:13hearing today to talk about the issue of
25:15autonomous vehicles.
25:17And the true impact that these vehicles
25:18will have on our workforce, our
25:20neighborhoods, and our quality of life
25:21here here in Cambridge and beyond. And
25:24I'm just so happy to be joined here
25:26today by our allies in the labor
25:27movement, the app drivers union,
25:29uh 32BJ, SEIU, um ATU, and the Greater
25:33Boston Labor Council.
25:35And so, I'm really fortunate that I get
25:38to get up every day and fight for
25:40working people and fight for
25:42for Teamsters. I get to fight for their
25:44health their health, safety, and
25:47prosperity for Teamsters actually
25:49throughout New England. And
25:50unfortunately, our way of life is under
25:53attack by um big companies, big tech
25:56companies like Waymo.
25:59Waymo and other companies are putting
26:01driverless cars and trucks on our
26:03roadways, and they like to say that, you
26:05know, we're here to help. We're here to
26:07make things safer. We're here to make
26:08your community safer.
26:10But, they don't really tell you the
26:12truth. What they're really trying to do
26:14is eliminate jobs. Now, first and
26:16foremost, Teamsters are not opposed to
26:18technological advances. I wanted to just
26:20get that right out of the way.
26:22But, we really want to protect working
26:24people and the good paying union jobs
26:26that they have.
26:28And I just wanted to touch on a little
26:29bit. Waymo has been asked in multiple
26:32public settings by different public
26:34officials about jobs and job loss. And
26:37what does that mean? And quite frankly,
26:39they have skirted the answer. There's
26:41been murmurings of it'll create some
26:43jobs, but like what jobs are they? How
26:46much do they pay? Do they come with
26:48benefits? And what will these jobs be?
26:50And will you be training um workers? The
26:53answer is well, their answer is really
26:55no answer.
26:56Um so we would like the answer to that.
26:58Maybe you guys can ask that question.
27:01Um
27:02so
27:03as we've learned um throughout working
27:07on this issue, Waymo and other big tech
27:09companies they really want to bring
27:12autonomous vehicles to our
27:14neighborhoods and
27:16municipalities because they want to make
27:18trillions of dollars quite frankly off
27:19the backs of working people.
27:21Um and they want to eliminate their
27:23jobs. And one of those members Mike
27:26Ortiz is here today. He'll talk a little
27:28bit later about what
27:29autonomous vehicles will do to his
27:31profession and the risk that it'll put
27:33his family at.
27:35And you're also going to hear from Uber
27:37and Lyft drivers today who are members
27:38of the Up Drivers Union who are going to
27:40talk about the threat to the work that
27:41they do and how they provide for their
27:43families.
27:44So look, we know
27:46we see the writing on the wall, right?
27:48We know that driverless cars and trucks
27:50are
27:51just salivating over the idea that they
27:54could eliminate Teamster jobs and anyone
27:57who drives for a living throughout
27:58Massachusetts.
28:00In addition to the loss of jobs, there
28:02are serious safety issues involving
28:04automation.
28:05Waymo has said that their cars are safer
28:07than humans and nothing could be further
28:09from the truth. If Waymos are so safe,
28:12safe, why has this company had to
28:13recall, as you mentioned, over 4,000
28:16vehicles? Why has it been placed under
28:18investigation by the federal government?
28:21We have seen countless stories in the
28:22news over the past couple years with
28:25Waymos riding through construction
28:26sites, riding through active police
28:28signs, impeding ambulances and fire
28:31trucks from getting where they need to
28:32go.
28:33There these are well-documented
28:35incidents in cities such as Phoenix,
28:38Houston, and San Francisco. In fact,
28:40there have been well over 50 public
28:42safety incidents in San Francisco and
28:46over 200 crashes, both minor and major,
28:49in Arizona between 2021 2021 and 2024.
28:54In March of last year, in fact, the San
28:56Francisco City Council held a
28:57high-stakes hearing examining Waymo's
29:00failures during a major power outage
29:02that saw driverless cars just simply
29:04stop cuz they were confused and parked
29:07in the middle of busy streets and
29:08intersections. No one could go anywhere.
29:11Last October, the Minneapolis City
29:13Council passed an ordinance that would
29:15require the presence of a human safety
29:17operator in any autonomous vehicle.
29:21The St. Paul City Council voted to
29:22proceed with a wide-ranging study that
29:25would seek to demonstrate the impact
29:27that driverless vehicles would have,
29:29like Waymo's would have, on ride-share
29:30drivers and small business owners and
29:32public transit systems and the local
29:34economy.
29:36Count- In other municipalities, we've
29:39seen, you know, I
29:41we've seen um in Austin, Texas, where
29:44Waymos have driven They were over 20
29:46incidents where Waymos drove right
29:48through school bus stop signs.
29:50And quite frankly, it's a miracle that
29:52no was no child or teacher was harmed in
29:55these incidents. These should be very
29:57concerning. Um when it comes to weather,
30:01you know, we are uh we live in the East
30:03Coast and we live with extreme weather.
30:05It gets really cold in the winter with
30:08uh lots of snow and sleet and it gets
30:10really hot in the summer. In fact, uh
30:13last year, Waymo was planning to
30:16demonstrate its vehicles uh up at the
30:18State House, and they actually had to
30:19cancel the event because it was too hot
30:22for the vehicles to operate. That should
30:26be of concern. Um it certainly was to
30:28us. And so, I think, you know, you'll
30:30hear from my colleagues today um some
30:32more information, some valuable
30:34information, and of course, we are here
30:36to answer any questions you may have. I
30:38just really wanted to end by saying that
30:40um in a recent poll, 78% of
30:43Massachusetts residents are opposed to
30:45autonomous vehicles hitting our streets.
30:47Um and chief among the concerns was
30:50public safety.
30:51So, that's all I'll say for today and
30:53I'll turn over to one of my colleagues,
30:56Autumn.
30:57>> Thank you.
30:58Thank you very much.
31:03>> Thank you, Bridget.
31:05Um and
31:07thank you, counselors. Uh thank you,
31:10Chair Flaherty.
31:11Uh shout-out to the drivers that are
31:14here today, the app drivers for Uber and
31:17>> Sorry, can you just speak a little bit
31:18better into the mic?
31:19>> Yes.
31:20>> Yeah, you can bring it closer.
31:21>> Thank you. Thank you. Um sorry about
31:23that. Yes, just recognizing all the
31:25drivers that we have here today,
31:27uh both for Uber and Lyft and Teamster
31:29drivers and uh my brothers and sisters
31:32here in the labor movement. It's great
31:34to be here with you today in this
31:35coalition.
31:36Um my name is Autumn Wein Traub and I
31:39serve as the executive director of the
31:41App Drivers Union. Uh we represent uh
31:4470,000
31:46recently unionized Uber and Lyft drivers
31:49in the state of Massachusetts.
31:51Um and the App Drivers Union is part of
31:55the of 32BJ and the IAM, the Machinists
31:58Union.
31:59And we're here to say that we have to
32:01hit the brakes on allowing driverless
32:04vehicles on our streets.
32:06Despite Waymo's aggressive, non-stop
32:09lobbying, uh the state of Massachusetts
32:12as as you saw uh has not advanced uh
32:15Waymo's ability to operate here.
32:17Um but Waymo, like other big tech
32:20companies, likes to move fast and break
32:23things uh before we know what we're in
32:25for. And right now, they're here,
32:28they're pursuing because they haven't
32:29made it in the state, they're here
32:30pursuing
32:32uh this city and others across the
32:34state, other municipalities.
32:37Um
32:39Waymo's ask mom, then ask dad gambit
32:42treats our state and local governments
32:44like parents to be worn down. If they
32:46can't get it one place, they go to the
32:47next uh so that they can get to yes and
32:50impose life-altering technology on our
32:54communities.
32:55And it's not about innovation for them.
32:58It's really it's death by a thousand
33:00cuts. It's about the lives and
33:03livelihoods of thousands of rideshare
33:06drivers and other workers across the
33:08state and their families that rely on
33:11them.
33:12Allowing robotaxis would mean a direct
33:14hit to jobs and but not just jobs, but
33:17our local economies. Drivers are already
33:20stretched thin
33:22will be pushed further into debt.
33:25They'll work longer hours for fewer
33:27trips.
33:28They'll be forced to compete with
33:30robots.
33:31Massachusetts rideshare drivers are
33:33currently negotiating the nation's first
33:35union contract for rideshare drivers in
33:37the country. Drivers won the right to
33:40improve their jobs through a union after
33:42a majority of Massachusetts voters
33:44supported question three in 2024.
33:48A great deal of that support came from
33:50right here in Cambridge. Um the people
33:54of Cambridge and also students at
33:56Harvard, MIT, and other campuses
33:59uh where students and staff in the
34:01community stood with drivers.
34:03Now driverless cars threaten that
34:05progress. And it's not just about
34:07drivers, it's about the ripple effect
34:09that driverless cars will have on our
34:11communities.
34:13Replacing drivers with robotaxis would
34:15be devastating for small businesses,
34:17neighborhood economies, and our state's
34:19tax base. This is billions of dollars of
34:22lost income.
34:24Driverless cars mean fewer paychecks
34:26spent at local car repair shops, gas
34:28stations, and convenience stores.
34:31When drivers lose income and are driven
34:33to unemployment lines,
34:35the entire community feels the loss and
34:39who is going to take care of that? Who
34:41is going to pay for that?
34:43There are paramount concerns about Waymo
34:45and surveillance, bias, and potential
34:48immigration enforcement that should be
34:50of particular concern to the city of
34:52Cambridge, which prides itself on
34:54diversity.
34:55Waymo's are essentially surveillance
34:57cameras on wheels and have come under
34:59fire from privacy advocates for their
35:02cooperation with law enforcement.
35:05While the city of Cambridge strictly
35:06limits local police cooperation with
35:08ICE, Waymo could prove to be a loophole.
35:11ICE could potentially obtain Waymo
35:13footage to track and deport alleged
35:15undocumented immigrants as ICE has
35:17accessed footage from other camera
35:20companies and Waymo's policies could
35:22allow ICE to access its data.
35:25Robo-taxi software is also notoriously
35:27worse at detecting darker-skinned people
35:30than lighter-skinned ones. This bias
35:32increases safety risks for pedestrians
35:34of color.
35:37Silicon Valley might want to force
35:39driverless vehicles into our
35:40communities, but Massachusetts voters do
35:43not, as Bridget said.
35:4674% of Massachusetts voters oppose
35:48driverless vehicles, according to a poll
35:51that was conducted
35:52uh
35:53a few months ago. We released it in
35:55March. And the public's concern about
35:57unregulated technology from AI to data
36:00centers are growing by the minute, as we
36:03see across the country.
36:05So, we have the opportunity to get this
36:07right, to make sure workers have a seat
36:09at the table and that the future of
36:11transportation in Massachusetts is
36:13shaped thoughtfully and with care.
36:16We can't rush headfirst into
36:17experimental technology that presents an
36:20answer to a problem that doesn't exist.
36:23Hundreds of thousands of drivers already
36:26serve our communities every day
36:27alongside thousands more public transit
36:30and other drivers like the Teamsters and
36:34my ATU brothers and sisters.
36:36Cities like San Francisco and Phoenix,
36:39which do not have a chance to create
36:41guardrails, they they did not have a
36:43chance to create any guardrails
36:45uh at this moment are struggling to
36:47figure out how to deal with the reckless
36:50policies and conduct of Waymo's. There's
36:53too many incidents to name as my
36:55colleagues have done.
36:57So, we should not follow in that path.
37:00We can chart a different course. We urge
37:02this committee to put the brakes on
37:04Waymo. We urge this committee to keep
37:06standing up for workers and our
37:07communities as you've done so many times
37:11so that we do not need to play catch up
37:13and try to address consequences once the
37:15cat is out of the bag and it's too late.
37:18Thank you.
37:20>> Well, thank you very much. Um I would
37:22like to just note for the record that
37:23Councilwoman Kathy Zoukis has joined us.
37:27And uh Scott, will you be uh
37:31giving us a few words?
37:32>> Uh yes, thank you.
37:34>> Uh
37:35Okay, thank you.
37:37I'm like, this is a weird spot.
37:40Uh good afternoon. My name is uh Scott
37:42Page. I'm here today from the Boston
37:44Carmen's Union.
37:45Uh I'm speaking today on behalf of our
37:47President James Evers Jr. and the nearly
37:497,000 union brothers, sisters, and
37:52siblings who operate and maintain the
37:54buses, trains, and street cars of the
37:56MBTA.
37:58For 123 years, our local has proudly
38:00moved the people of this region with a
38:02keen eye for safety
38:05both on our vehicles and in the
38:07communities we serve.
38:09Much of the work that our members do
38:11goes far beyond the task of moving a
38:13vehicle.
38:14Transit workers act as ambassadors to
38:16the region, assist those who need extra
38:19help using public transportation,
38:22serve as the first point of contact
38:24during an emergency situation, and
38:27troubleshoot mechanical issues that
38:28arise in the course of normal
38:30operations.
38:32A quick search of local news stories
38:34will show you that transit workers have
38:36routinely
38:37recovered lost valuables, reunited
38:40missing children and elderly people with
38:42their loved ones.
38:43Uh, in one case in Lynn,
38:46uh, parked a bus on their route when
38:49they noticed that a house on their route
38:50was on fire
38:52and put out the fire with the bus's
38:54extinguisher.
38:55Um,
38:56and routinely prevent or try to reduce
39:01the likelihood of crime, injury, and
39:04damage to personal property by taking
39:06proactive steps to ensure that people
39:08are safe.
39:10We're gathering here today to talk about
39:12whether or not big tech can deliver a
39:13vehicle that drives itself.
39:16But we must also equally raise our
39:17voices to defend the efforts of transit
39:20workers and the importance of the
39:21humanity they bring to the art of moving
39:24people.
39:27AVs in their current state are not
39:29prepared to deal with the unpredictable
39:32situations that members of local 589 and
39:35other
39:36uh, transit unions
39:38face on on on, you know, a regular
39:40basis.
39:42More importantly, robo-taxis
39:44and self-piloted vehicles are incapable
39:47of developing a relationship
39:49with the communities that they serve.
39:52Our members are the bedrock of the
39:53communities we live in and our system
39:56works so well because we are that
39:57community. My understanding, Mr.
39:59Chairman, is that your father, I
40:01believe, was
40:02>> My grandfather was a bus driver here in
40:04Cambridge and when you speak of the art
40:08of moving people, I'm reminded of the
40:10many stories of my grandfather that I
40:12learned
40:13who would stop his bus to bring a
40:15neighbor's trash cans in. So, it's
40:19legend and it's been going on for many,
40:22many years. So, thank you for your
40:23service.
40:24>> Thank you. And and on a point of
40:25personal privilege, I'm so honored to be
40:27continuing for the families we serve now
40:30what he helped create. So, thank you.
40:32>> I'm honored by your your joining us here
40:34today.
40:35>> Um thank you. So,
40:38like I said, we are the bedrock of the
40:40communities that we serve and we should
40:42be very skeptical about using Waymo or
40:45any other big tech firms proprietary and
40:49self-reported data
40:51when we're talking about safety and when
40:52we're talking about service. I think
40:54rather than spending our scarce
40:56resources, whether it's in Cambridge,
40:58Boston, or the state, spending them on
41:01being a test laboratory for big tech, we
41:04should instead invest in our well-tested
41:07and efficient public transit system and
41:10continue investing in the people who
41:12make it run. I thank you for your time.
41:17>> Thank you very much.
41:18And we'll have
41:20Abdi
41:21Samatar, who will tell us about
41:25the impact on real people's lives.
41:28>> Absolutely. Thank you, chairman.
41:30Good afternoon. My name is Abdi Samatar
41:34and I come here today as a ride-share
41:36driver, father of eight, a Cambridge
41:39resident, to ask you to reject Waymo.
41:43I have been driving in Boston area for
41:45about 20 years, 9 years in a taxi and 11
41:48years with Uber.
41:50I used to drive a cab, but I lost my
41:52business to Uber. I adapt, move forward,
41:55and start driving for Uber. Now, I'm
41:58watching Waymo take over the same way
42:01Uber did.
42:02It feels like every time I adjust to a
42:04new reality, another technology comes
42:06along
42:08and threaten my livelihood. First, it
42:10was an Uber. Now, it is self-driving
42:13cars. My question is how many times must
42:16hardworking drivers start over just to
42:19survive?
42:20We are not just drivers. We are people
42:23with families to feed, bills to pay, and
42:26dreams to pursue. Technology may be the
42:28future,
42:29but what happens is today, what happens
42:32to the people who build their lives
42:34around driving. Waymo does not just
42:38threaten our jobs. It threatens the
42:40support network that real human drivers
42:43provide. Every day, we offer connection,
42:46compassion, and help that no robot can
42:50replicate. We help passengers to get to
42:53and from hospitals and to their doctor's
42:55appointments. We help elders and
42:57disabled passengers get in and get and
43:00and out of vehicles and to their front
43:03doors and fold and put their wheelchairs
43:06away.
43:07We make sure women passengers get home
43:09safely. Robo-taxis don't pay taxes. They
43:13don't raise families here. They don't
43:15make judgment calls when someone is in
43:17trouble.
43:18This is not about public safety. It is
43:20about profit that goes straight to
43:23Silicon Valley.
43:24We move mountains to win our union so we
43:27can make our jobs better. We are at the
43:30bargaining table right now negotiating
43:32the first ever contract for rideshare
43:34drivers. That's a real progress. So, I'm
43:37asking you today, don't erase, don't
43:40replace us with robots at the exact
43:43moment we are transforming this industry
43:46for the better.
43:50I survived the transition from taxi to
43:53Uber. Now, I'm facing the transition
43:55from Uber to Waymo. My story is not just
43:57about cars or technology. It is about
44:00survival, dignity, and the struggle of
44:02the working class. Progress should not
44:05mean leaving hardworking people behind.
44:08We deserve fair chance to adapt, earn
44:11living, and support our families. Thank
44:13you.
44:15>> Thank you very much. And uh
44:20Do we have anybody else?
44:21>> Yes, me.
44:22I'm the last one.
44:23>> Darlene, will you be? Okay. Please.
44:27>> Thank you. So, good afternoon, everyone.
44:29My name is Darlene Lombos, and I'm the
44:31president of the Greater Boston Labor
44:33Council AFL-CIO.
44:35We represent over 100,000 union members
44:37and their families um in the region,
44:39including the city of Cambridge. On
44:42behalf of all of us here today, Labor
44:44United Against Waymo,
44:46um we would like to thank co-chairs
44:48Councilor Flaherty and Councilor Ziemba
44:51and the rest of the Transportation and
44:52Public Utilities Committee for inviting
44:54us to share our concerns about
44:56driverless cars.
44:58While the labor movement has always
44:59fought for a transportation system that
45:02is affordable and accessible and serves
45:04the public good, we have had to in
45:06Massachusetts and Boston the last in the
45:08last year also been advocating to ensure
45:12that new technologies that may be used
45:14to build our transportation system are
45:17shaped with us, not at our expense.
45:21When it comes to robo-taxis and
45:22driverless cars in Massachusetts, we are
45:25urging city and state leaders to take
45:28the time to understand this technology
45:31that other cities and states across the
45:33country have not would did not do.
45:36Number one, we need you to study the
45:38traffic and safety impacts before it's
45:41too late and Cambridge ends up with
45:43driverless cars going through active
45:45crime scenes or through highway
45:48construction zones like in Atlanta.
45:51Number two, we want you to give local
45:53workers, small businesses, and community
45:56members a seat at the table and the
45:59power to guide discussions and decisions
46:02so Cambridge is not left scrambling to
46:06address issues raised from a variety of
46:08stakeholders who are already dealing
46:10with driverless cars inability to work
46:13properly in extreme weather and deal
46:15with flashlight flash floods like in San
46:18Antonio and other cities in Texas.
46:20And number three, create real
46:22human-centered guardrails that
46:24prioritize workers, residents, and
46:26public safety over corporate profits so
46:29that Cambridge doesn't have to backtrack
46:31to address these basic concerns like
46:34what has been happening in San
46:35Francisco.
46:37Think about it this way. In the 1970s,
46:40we sprayed asbestos everywhere from
46:43schools to offices and homes, all
46:46because industry assured us it was
46:49innovative and safe.
46:52No one asked hard questions, and decades
46:55later, we're still paying the price,
46:57cleaning it up, and dealing with the
46:59harm.
47:01We cannot let autonomous vehicles,
47:03driverless cars, robo-taxis
47:06become the new spray and pray
47:08technology.
47:10We can't let robo-taxis loose loose on
47:14our streets willy-nilly without first
47:16understanding the immediate and
47:18long-term consequences.
47:20So today, you've heard from our union
47:22leaders and drivers, and you'll hear
47:23from more
47:24about the impacts, and we want you to
47:27remember that driverless cars are just
47:29one facet of a much broader conversation
47:33about the future of work, how we want to
47:35build our cities, and a real test to our
47:38democracy.
47:40We know AI and algorithmic management
47:43and other technology companies want to
47:45concentrate power and decision-making at
47:49the top to maximize profits.
47:52But the labor movement is sending a
47:54strong message today that that outcome
47:58is not an inevitability.
48:00We can build a future where technology
48:03enhances human work, not replaces us.
48:07Where people are decision-makers, not
48:10data points. Thank you again for the
48:12opportunity to be part of the
48:13conversation today and look forward to
48:15our continued partnership.
48:18>> Thank you very much. And
48:21if there's anyone else from the city
48:22would like to say a few words,
48:25um so executive director Tannen House,
48:27please.
48:28Thank you.
48:33>> Hello.
48:35Okay, there we go. That's better.
48:37My name's Rachel Tannenhaus,
48:39she/her/hers. I'm the ADA coordinator
48:41for the city of Cambridge and the
48:42executive director of the Cambridge
48:44Commission for persons with
48:45disabilities.
48:46Um I am here to talk specifically about
48:50how Waymo would impact people with
48:52disabilities.
48:54Um for those of you who are waiting for
48:56me to come down solidly on one side of
48:58the other, I am going to disappoint you
49:00all day long because it's complicated.
49:03Um I am definitely not here to go up
49:05against the unions. In my previous job,
49:07I was a proud union steward. Um and um I
49:11have now sold out and become middle
49:13management, but I you know, that does
49:15not mean that I do not that I don't
49:18still care about about union issues and
49:20labor issues.
49:21Um
49:22So there are good aspects and bad
49:24aspects about Waymo for people with
49:26disabilities and older adults. And I'm
49:28going to start with the good part.
49:31But I will get to the bad part.
49:33Um the good part is that for folks like
49:36me who are blind,
49:38um and for folks with intellectual
49:40disabilities, and there are a number of
49:42other
49:43uh
49:43folks with disabilities, this is a
49:45game-changer, right? This is absolutely
49:48um a key to independence for a lot of us
49:52who have disabilities that impact our
49:54ability to use to to drive, to use
49:57specific
49:59kinds of transportation, to tell where
50:01we are at a given time. Basically, to
50:04our our orientation and mobility.
50:06Um and so I think that that is something
50:09that a lot of people, especially in in
50:11the blind community such as it is
50:13because God knows it doesn't all agree
50:14with each other with each other.
50:17You have no idea.
50:18Um we
50:21uh
50:21you know, I think there was a lot of
50:23push for this because this is an
50:25opportunity we have never had before.
50:27Um
50:29also, speaking as someone who in my real
50:32life uses a service dog, I'm currently
50:34between service dogs. Thanks, I hate it.
50:37Um and um have been in my
50:4421 years of using service dogs,
50:46have been discriminated against more
50:48times than I can count in my use of ride
50:51shares and taxis.
50:53Again, you know, hashtag not all
50:55drivers.
50:56I absolutely understand that.
50:59Um but it has happened a lot. I have had
51:01the police called on me multiple times
51:03and it wasn't because I was partying too
51:05hard. I have had people uh drive off
51:08while I was hanging onto their car. I've
51:10had to retire a really, really good
51:12guide dog early because she experienced
51:16such stress from the number of times
51:18that we were discriminated against
51:20getting into ride share vehicles. And
51:23while I myself do not pay for my guide
51:25dogs, I need to tell you that it costs
51:26$50,000 to put a guide dog team on the
51:28road.
51:30Okay. So,
51:31my um
51:34uh my my my safety and my independence
51:39have been put in danger by the by by
51:42these things. A Waymo is very unlikely
51:45to discriminate against me for having a
51:48service dog because there will be no
51:50person in it to do that.
51:52I'm not saying it can't happen.
51:54I'm saying it's less likely to happen.
51:57Yes, I recognize everything I just
51:58described is completely illegal.
52:01It happens all the time. I don't know a
52:03single The only service dog handlers I
52:05know who haven't had that happen haven't
52:07had it happen because they are afraid to
52:08take ride shares and taxis.
52:11Um I am not trying to rag on the
52:13industry. I'm telling you the realities
52:15of some of us who use it. We continue to
52:17use it anyway in a lot of cases because
52:20it also was a game-changer for us.
52:22But I would as I
52:24as I have said to several people here, I
52:27would jump into a portal to hell if I
52:30knew that it would successfully get me
52:32there without discriminating against me.
52:35Right? Like and I I'm pretty lucky. I
52:38know people who had people put their
52:39hands on them and stuff like that, you
52:41know. So it's it's a little rough out
52:43there for us.
52:45Um Ego Republic Transit doesn't. And
52:48also if it can handle winter weather,
52:51that's a big if, I don't know that it
52:53can,
52:54that's a big deal, right?
52:57That's the good stuff. I'm going to get
52:59to the bad stuff now.
53:01As far as I know,
53:03nowhere in this country is Waymo
53:05operating a wheelchair accessible
53:07vehicle.
53:08Nowhere.
53:10Now in this city at the height of when
53:13we had taxis, which unfortunately that
53:15system has been decimated, but
53:18um we had 257 taxis and eight of them
53:22were fully wheelchair accessible and we
53:23had a dedicated phone line where you
53:25could call them and reserve them.
53:27That is no longer a system that we have
53:29in this city. So if we put this So we
53:32here have the opportunity to put in yet
53:34another system that determines that
53:36there are people who don't get to use it
53:39because they have disabilities.
53:41Um so that is Now, what Waymo is doing
53:45about this particular situation? They're
53:47kind of talking pipe dream about maybe
53:49someday, maybe someday working on a
53:51wheelchair accessible vehicle. But in
53:53the meantime, they are very excited to
53:55tell you that they are tapping into
53:58existing networks of wheelchair
53:59accessible vehicles, which means they're
54:01basically doing what Uber and Lyft do
54:03and using the same resources that Uber
54:05and Lyft use, like tapping into the very
54:08few wheelchair accessible vehicles that
54:10have to serve the whole area that you
54:11have to wait a very long time for, often
54:13in difficult weather, because they may
54:15not be coming from where you are, cuz
54:16there just aren't that many of them.
54:19Um, also, if Waymo is in fact safer, and
54:24I am not saying that it is, so everybody
54:26chill,
54:27but
54:28if it is in fact as safe as much safer
54:32as they claim that it is, then why do
54:34people with disabilities get that safety
54:37and people with who use wheelchairs and
54:39require wheelchair wheelchair accessible
54:41vehicles don't rate that kind of safety?
54:45Like, what is Why are Why are we making
54:47that kind of division?
54:49Why is it okay to say, "All right, well,
54:51you get to use the other stuff that we
54:53claim we're better than?"
54:55Um,
54:57now Waymo is pretty is pretty shrewd
54:59about this. They give money to a lot of
55:00disability-related organizations,
55:02particularly organizations serving blind
55:04folks and folks with uh intellectual
55:06disabilities. And um you know, that
55:10makes sense because those are
55:12populations, important populations that
55:15really can benefit from from Waymo's
55:17existence. But I don't think that they
55:21have forgotten who they help and who
55:23they don't.
55:25There are some folks who would require a
55:27human to give assistance even if they
55:30did come up with an accessible vehicle
55:33with a self-deploying ramp, that sort of
55:35thing.
55:36Um you know, you need to be able to
55:39secure your wheelchair and you may or
55:40may not be able to do that. You may need
55:42help getting luggage in the back, that
55:44kind of thing. There are a lot of people
55:46with a lot of different kinds of
55:47disabilities that would in fact be um
55:51that would in fact be excluded by this
55:53technology.
55:55And also, what if it drops you at the
55:56wrong place? And that's going to sound
55:58kind of silly. That also happens with
56:00all kinds of drivers. The human drivers
56:02have been known to do that, too, but
56:04guess what? When they do that, there's a
56:05human driver there once you figure it
56:08out. Now, it takes those of us who can't
56:10see very well a minute to figure out
56:11we're in the wrong place, but with some
56:14of these other services, there is
56:15somebody we can call. Like, there is a
56:16thing we can do. We are not left in the
56:19middle of nowhere. Likewise, folks with
56:21intellectual disabilities might have the
56:23same issue. It might take them a minute
56:24to tell this is not where I meant to go
56:27and they're very vulnerable once they
56:28get there.
56:29You could be dropped in a place that you
56:31can't navigate. It could be dark. It
56:33could be freezing.
56:35It could be a dan- it could be dangerous
56:37for any number of reasons.
56:39I need to know that I'm going to be able
56:41to reach somebody who can get me out of
56:43there.
56:44Um
56:45so if there's no human, that's a
56:47problem.
56:48There used to be a bug with um there
56:52used to be a bug in
56:54automated drive driving
56:57automated vehicles and I don't know if
56:58they have gotten rid of it. This was
57:00several years ago, so you know that's
57:01centuries in technology time.
57:03But like
57:05we are basically had this idea of what a
57:06human looked like and you alluded to
57:08that earlier with talking about how like
57:10things white people are people and
57:11everybody else is not so sure about.
57:13Um also, people who are standing are
57:16people and if you are traversing the
57:18street in a seated position in a
57:19wheelchair, for a long time it didn't
57:21register you as a human obstacle, which
57:23it would prioritize as something it
57:25definitely should not hit.
57:27I don't know if they have fixed that
57:29yet.
57:31I need assurances that they have.
57:34Um otherwise that's a deal breaker,
57:36right? Like that's absolutely a deal
57:38breaker. Also, if there is something I
57:40need to be able to access when I get
57:43into the vehicle,
57:45I you know, is it if there is a control,
57:47if there's a button you need to push, if
57:48it to to like if there's something, like
57:51maybe not. Maybe you just get in and
57:53everything magically happens. Um you
57:56know, but if there is something you need
57:58to be able to do to indicate something,
58:00I need to know those controls are
58:01accessible to those of us who can't see
58:03them.
58:04That they are usable by people who
58:05cannot hear, that they are usable by
58:07people with limited mobility. I need to
58:10know that they are in full compliance
58:12with all uh
58:14with all of the uh requirements for
58:18accessible controls under uh section 508
58:21of the Rehabilitation Act. Um even
58:23though it's not a federal entity, that's
58:26not a bad set of rules to go by. I need
58:28to know that they know what they're
58:29doing in terms of making sure people can
58:32use them.
58:33Um
58:35I like I said, for me personally, this
58:39would be a game-changer. And also, no
58:42one's free till we're all free.
58:44I am unwilling to throw other parts of
58:47the disability community under the
58:49metaphorical bus. Obviously, this is not
58:51a bus. It is a Waymo. Um
58:54to you know, to get my needs met. We all
58:57got to get there together.
59:00Um and I also don't want to I also
59:02notice that the people whose jobs it
59:05would take are disproportionately
59:08um BIPOC folks, with often immigrants.
59:12Um and
59:14if this city is going to talk about how
59:17excited it is about racial equity, it
59:19needs to be able to do more than spell
59:21it.
59:22So, um I think we need to keep that in
59:26mind, too. This is not just a
59:28you know, it's not just a disability
59:30issue. It is an equity issue overall.
59:33So,
59:34as I said,
59:36I am not coming out strongly in favor of
59:39of or against. I have very strong
59:41arguments on both sides, but because the
59:43disability perspective is often not part
59:46of the lens that things are looked
59:48through, I feel like I I really
59:50appreciate the opportunity to say
59:52something. And the last thing I want to
59:53say is that if we do wind up talking
59:55about automated delivery pods, please
59:57tag me in because I do have really
59:59strong arguments against those. They get
1:00:01into fights with with people about the
1:00:03use of curb ramps, and they will push
1:00:05you right out in the street.
1:00:07So, um
1:00:09no,
1:00:10not in the city, thank you.
1:00:12>> [gasps]
1:00:13>> Um thank you very much, and I'm happy to
1:00:15I I know this isn't when people answer
1:00:17questions, but if anybody ever has any,
1:00:19I'm at your service. Thanks.
1:00:22>> Well, thank you very much.
1:00:24Um
1:00:25Jack or Stephanie, do you have
1:00:26presentations? Uh no.
1:00:28Okay. So, I think um oh,
1:00:32we can open up the public comment, or
1:00:33would you like to
1:00:35All right. Does that make sense?
1:00:37All right, why don't we uh go right
1:00:39ahead. Do we How many people do we have
1:00:40signed up?
1:00:42>> Three people.
1:00:42>> Three? Okay. [clears throat]
1:00:44So, uh
1:00:45>> Our first speaker is Mike Ortiz.
1:00:51>> Right at the podium, Mr. Ortiz, and
1:00:53there's a button
1:00:54uh
1:00:55to uh activate the uh speaker.
1:01:03>> Good afternoon.
1:01:04My name is Michael Ortiz.
1:01:06I am a member of Teamsters Local 25 and
1:01:09a waste driver at Republic Services.
1:01:12In the summer of 2025, as you
1:01:15remember, my co-workers and I went on
1:01:18strike. After 81 days, we won we won the
1:01:21strike, securing historic wages and
1:01:24increases.
1:01:26This have made it easier for me to pay
1:01:27my rent, buy groceries, and support my
1:01:30children.
1:01:32But now, Teamsters face a different
1:01:34threat, autonomous vehicles.
1:01:37The big tech companies that are
1:01:38bankrolling this won't stop until
1:01:40they've automated everything
1:01:43driving every driving job in the state.
1:01:47Right now, Waymo is coming for our
1:01:49brothers and sisters in the apps drivers
1:01:51union.
1:01:52Pretty soon, big tech will come for
1:01:54delivery, freight, sanitation,
1:01:57paratransit, and everything else.
1:01:59This is This isn't about innovation or
1:02:02failure to embrace technology.
1:02:04This is about who gets food on their
1:02:06tables
1:02:08on their tables and roofs over their
1:02:10head.
1:02:11Who gets to survive?
1:02:14I've been a professional expert driver
1:02:16for 20 years. This is all I ever known.
1:02:19I poured everything into my career to
1:02:21provide for my family.
1:02:24What happens if my drive If my job
1:02:26disappears? What happens to co-workers
1:02:28in their 40s and 50s who can't find
1:02:30another job with the same pay and same
1:02:33benefits?
1:02:34What happens to neighborhoods in
1:02:35Cambridge that they rely on union jobs
1:02:38to survive?
1:02:39What happens to our already fragile
1:02:42economy when faced with sudden loss of
1:02:45100,000 jobs?
1:02:47What happens to small business owners in
1:02:49Cambridge that depend on the revenue
1:02:52that Teamsters and app drivers bring in
1:02:54every day?
1:02:56When you replace people with machines,
1:02:58you don't just eliminate jobs.
1:03:01You cut health care, pension, mortgages,
1:03:04tuitions, toys for children during the
1:03:06holidays.
1:03:09I urge you to protect every driver who's
1:03:12working hard to support their family.
1:03:14Say no to autonomous vehicles. Say no to
1:03:17Waymo bringing their autonomous vehicles
1:03:20to the neighborhoods and streets of
1:03:21Cambridge. Thank you.
1:03:24>> Thank you. Our next speaker is Priscila
1:03:26Polanco followed by Kareem Abdus-Samad.
1:03:31Priscila, please come to the mic. You
1:03:33have 2 minutes. The time is displayed on
1:03:35screen. Please go ahead.
1:03:38>> Good afternoon. My name is Priscila
1:03:40Polanco. I'm here today as a rideshare
1:03:42driver, a father, a son, a grandson
1:03:45to ask this committee to reject Waymo.
1:03:49My own safety as a driver,
1:03:51security
1:03:53of of of of people that that that do
1:03:55this for living every day out here in
1:03:58Cambridge, which is what I do.
1:04:00Um
1:04:02I want to send I got I got to go and
1:04:05take my mom and my mother,
1:04:07which they're really old. Uh my my
1:04:09grandmother just turned 91 and my mom
1:04:12just say 65. And uh I got to take them
1:04:15every every other day to the Brigham, to
1:04:18therapy, to
1:04:19God knows how many appointments.
1:04:22I wouldn't send them on a Waymo cuz I
1:04:24know
1:04:25I know the hardship that takes that
1:04:28take them
1:04:30where I know they're going to be on a
1:04:31safe spot, not just on a curb.
1:04:34You know, get out and despite of there's
1:04:36people or the valet people try to rush
1:04:39me around, you know, wait, I got I got
1:04:42somebody that needs help here, you know,
1:04:44get go around, get the wheelchair, get
1:04:46them out, you know, put them on on a
1:04:49safe area with wheelchair and get
1:04:51somebody from the hospital to go and
1:04:52take care of them. You know, I know how
1:04:54hard this is, you know, and and I I do
1:04:57this. Um
1:04:58I'm I'm not only do it for them, but I
1:05:00also do it for other people.
1:05:04There are passengers uh
1:05:06that need a special assistance um
1:05:09that a robot won't be able to provide.
1:05:13Um
1:05:15And like I said before, I would you
1:05:16yourself trust
1:05:18a a family member to a Waymo?
1:05:22We already got too many cars, too much
1:05:25traffic.
1:05:26We don't need no more confusion.
1:05:28We need investment in the people that
1:05:30already doing the job.
1:05:32Investment investment
1:05:34in the driver that waited outside an
1:05:37extra minute for your daughter to go
1:05:39inside
1:05:41on a you know, to safety of the
1:05:43their home after coming back from
1:05:45graduation party.
1:05:47We need investment in the driver that
1:05:48helped your mother
1:05:50or grandmother to go inside and out of
1:05:53the vehicle.
1:05:56We need investment on that driver that
1:05:58helped a distressed person with IDD to
1:06:00come down and make sure that they got
1:06:03home safe. I know that we already talked
1:06:05about disabilities, but I myself I'm
1:06:08also a father of of a a
1:06:11a kid, a 6-year-old autistic kid. And
1:06:15>> Marco, our apologies. Your time has
1:06:16expired. If you can wrap up.
1:06:18>> Yeah. And like I said before, I wouldn't
1:06:20put my kid in one of those Waymo robots
1:06:22cuz God knows what would I do if if if
1:06:25she get dropped in the wrong place.
1:06:27Thank you very much.
1:06:29>> Thank you. Our next speaker is Kareem
1:06:31Abdusamad. Kareem?
1:06:34Please go ahead. You have 2 minutes.
1:06:41Kareem has not joined us.
1:06:43Mr. Chair, that is all that were signed
1:06:44up to speak.
1:06:47>> Well, thank you very much and I
1:06:48appreciate everybody's words. Uh very
1:06:51informative.
1:06:52And I think our Councilwoman Nolan um
1:06:57has a uh
1:06:59a question or some comments. So, please,
1:07:01Councilwoman Nolan.
1:07:03>> Thank you.
1:07:05I want to start out by saying so often
1:07:07and I'm reminded by hearing from
1:07:10one of the drivers that drivers
1:07:12particularly public transit are the
1:07:14unsung heroes in so many ways.
1:07:16And in transit in general, we rely on in
1:07:19all of our lives, we need some form of
1:07:21transportation.
1:07:23And if you're not driving yourself,
1:07:24which has big issues in and of itself,
1:07:26but really the unsung heroes who are
1:07:27there
1:07:29we saw it during any kind of emergency,
1:07:32you know, the buses are still going by
1:07:33my house if there's 3 ft of snow on the
1:07:35ground or if it's really late at night
1:07:37and cold. So, I just
1:07:39I think this we have to remind ourselves
1:07:41of that and as
1:07:43um Director Lobo said, it's the
1:07:46human-centered part of it's easy to
1:07:48forget that, but we rely on it so much
1:07:50for all drivers. So, I'm
1:07:52appreciate of that. As someone who has
1:07:53used taxis and also Uber and Lyft, I
1:07:55think it's very similar. There's someone
1:07:56there. Um
1:07:58we're relying on for critical public
1:08:00safety and also livability. And I will
1:08:02say I'm someone I think this all counts.
1:08:04I want more transit. Like I want to get
1:08:05rid of all single occupancy vehicles in
1:08:07a public transit across the city. We're
1:08:09working on it. Um
1:08:11The
1:08:12the the litany of issues, I will say
1:08:14look in full disclosure I'm open to
1:08:16eventually having something like this,
1:08:18but there are so many issues we are so
1:08:20not anywhere near being able to do this.
1:08:23It's not just public safety. It's what
1:08:25we heard. It's is this going to bollocks
1:08:28up the entire city? Is this going to
1:08:29create even more emissions when we're
1:08:31desperately trying to change our planet
1:08:34so that it's literally livable?
1:08:36Is this you know, is this going to
1:08:37decimate public transit? Surveillance is
1:08:40not something we should take lightly.
1:08:42This is a major issue that we've already
1:08:44dealt with in this council often and
1:08:46this is Waymo or others they're likely
1:08:49to be national companies that do have
1:08:51relationships with organizations that we
1:08:53in the city stand really firmly to say
1:08:55we are not sharing information with
1:08:56them. That's such also a big issue. The
1:08:59personal attention and service about
1:09:01whether it's
1:09:02um getting your luggage in and out,
1:09:04which is not something maybe a robot can
1:09:06do, or the personal service of getting
1:09:07So, there are just so many issues even
1:09:10if eventually we can see there there
1:09:12there may be some way that we need to
1:09:14work on this, or that it will eventually
1:09:17do something that will will be part of
1:09:19our transit puzzle.
1:09:21However, even if and when that happens,
1:09:23and these are major issues that have to
1:09:25be solved, that have to be thoroughly
1:09:27researched and solidly make sure that
1:09:29they do not compromise our way of
1:09:31living. And we we cannot compromise at
1:09:34all on the good jobs with pay and with
1:09:37benefits that um we've heard about here
1:09:39and here. So, that's it our our entire
1:09:43way of life almost. I mean, it just it
1:09:46unions keep us strong, you know, we we
1:09:48we we don't have to go into that whole
1:09:50question about the strongest time in
1:09:52this country was when the union
1:09:53um
1:09:54uh union membership was at its highest.
1:09:56Right now, it's really really low. We
1:09:57have to get back up there. So, the the
1:09:59number of good jobs and it was a big
1:10:01fight to even get
1:10:03uh the unions, which I supported the
1:10:04whole way, that we cannot continue to
1:10:08have these supposed gig workers. No,
1:10:09that just decimates families, it
1:10:11decimates communities. We see it in our
1:10:14city all the time that we we rely on
1:10:16people having good jobs so that they can
1:10:18help our small businesses. So, so that's
1:10:20where I'm at. It we are so far away from
1:10:22being able to do anything because of
1:10:24these issues. And in particular, I very
1:10:26much support in here
1:10:29we we must be um cognizant of the impact
1:10:33on It can't just be a job, it has to be
1:10:36a good job, it has to be a decent job,
1:10:37it has to be one that pays a living wage
1:10:40and creates benefits so that people
1:10:41don't have to sacrifice things.
1:10:43That was my statement. I do have a
1:10:45question, which is
1:10:47is there any kind of ask here? Because
1:10:49my understanding is given the
1:10:50presentation from Commissioner McKenna,
1:10:53it would be state level anyway, and
1:10:55there'd be a lot of local preemption.
1:10:56So, I I don't think we're voting on
1:10:59anything today, but but it's
1:11:00understanding the landscape of where we
1:11:02are, making sure that you all, thank you
1:11:05for coming here and understand where the
1:11:07council is on this. But, I'm curious as
1:11:10to whether there's a specific ask that
1:11:11we're going to be
1:11:13uh
1:11:14willing to and and I do have another
1:11:16commitment. I will have to leave the
1:11:17meeting at 2:00, but I'm here for
1:11:19anybody who wants to follow up with
1:11:20anything I've said or
1:11:22>> Well, thanks for the question. I don't
1:11:23know if there's a specific ask at this
1:11:26meeting other than to pay particular
1:11:28attention to Waymo at the moment, and
1:11:31I'm sure we'll be having a follow-up, at
1:11:34least uh one more committee hearing to
1:11:37discuss further
1:11:39um
1:11:39progress, if there is
1:11:42maybe, for instance, and this is all
1:11:43hypothetical, but if there is maybe an
1:11:45attempt to have a testing or pilot
1:11:48program in the city of Cambridge, then I
1:11:50think it's very appropriate that we come
1:11:51before uh this group and have a uh a
1:11:55more in-depth um scrutiny of that.
1:11:59So, at the moment, no, but in the
1:12:01future, I would say yes.
1:12:05So, um thank you very much, Councilor.
1:12:07>> Yeah, thank you. And again, all those
1:12:08issues are so large. Every single one of
1:12:10them could be subject to a 2-hour
1:12:12meeting. Every single one of those
1:12:14concerns, and the commissioner even laid
1:12:15out some I didn't even mention that are
1:12:16really important. So, thank you, Chair
1:12:18Flaherty.
1:12:19>> Okay, thank you. And I think Councilor
1:12:21Zusey maybe uh
1:12:23would like to address some issues. So,
1:12:26please.
1:12:26>> Yeah, thank you so much, Chair Flaherty,
1:12:28and I apologize for being a few minutes
1:12:31late.
1:12:32I was coming from a different meeting.
1:12:34Um I thank you for hosting this meeting,
1:12:37and for me, it's an incredible
1:12:38counterpoint to I listen to the MIT's
1:12:42transportation mobility lectures usually
1:12:44on Friday at noon.
1:12:46And they have convinced me that shared
1:12:48autonomous vehicles are the future, and
1:12:51as we are
1:12:53you know, working, we're encouraging
1:12:55people to walk, we're encouraging people
1:12:57to bicycle, we're encouraging people to
1:12:59use transit,
1:13:01and then with these shared vehicles, the
1:13:03idea is that we'll be less dependent on
1:13:07cars in the future, and we'll be a more
1:13:09sustainable
1:13:11city. So, again, I if if you want to
1:13:14hear an another view of the future,
1:13:17listen to the mobility forum, because
1:13:19the transportation engineers from around
1:13:22the world are saying, "This is the
1:13:23future, shared autonomous vehicles."
1:13:26Um I wanted to share um so, my husband
1:13:31is a techie guy,
1:13:33and he
1:13:34uh we test drove, and he purchased uh a
1:13:37Tesla autopilot vehicle this summer, and
1:13:41I will tell you, when we were test
1:13:42driving it in Boston, during rush hour,
1:13:45on a Friday afternoon, not such a great
1:13:47idea,
1:13:48it was flawless. It was amazing. I was
1:13:51actually the person behind the wheel,
1:13:53and the only reason I'm telling you this
1:13:55is that we're actually much closer to
1:13:57this reality than you're suggesting.
1:13:59There are um obstacles, there are
1:14:01concerns about snow, there's still
1:14:03concerns about potholes, but it's
1:14:06amazing how quickly um
1:14:08the technologists are solving the
1:14:10problems, but it did a flawless job
1:14:13driving through Boston during rush hour
1:14:15on a Friday afternoon, um and it's
1:14:19driven us home from New Hampshire
1:14:21flawlessly. Uh we're always there to
1:14:24take over, you know, we're we're still
1:14:26there to drive if we need to, but uh the
1:14:29technology is very good, and sometimes
1:14:32I I'm I'm aware of that, if you're
1:14:34tired, my husband really wanted the car,
1:14:36cuz he goes hiking, and if he's doing
1:14:38like a 8-hour hike coming back from New
1:14:41Hampshire,
1:14:43if he's tired, he wants to have a
1:14:45vehicle that mostly will be in charge,
1:14:48but he can be there
1:14:49if it's not in charge.
1:14:51Uh
1:14:52and I'm very aware for like elderly
1:14:53people, uh
1:14:55uh
1:14:56for anybody that is has an altered
1:14:58state, being in one of these vehicles is
1:15:01far safer. Another advantage is
1:15:04um it does um uh it does notice
1:15:08wheelchairs. It does notice walkers,
1:15:12cyclists, dogs, and it doesn't notice
1:15:15pretty girls or handsome men, so drivers
1:15:18aren't distracted because it's noticing
1:15:21all of those things. The Anyway, I'm
1:15:23aware that the technology isn't perfect,
1:15:25but I just wanted to make the point we
1:15:27are closer to a refined technology than
1:15:31has been um I think presented. Um I will
1:15:34tell you that we certainly need to find
1:15:37and make sure that we have other jobs,
1:15:40and I'm aware of the opportunities
1:15:43ride-sharing provides. Um I know people
1:15:46that are ride-share drivers, and it's
1:15:49allowed them to pay their um school
1:15:51bills. Uh it's been a very important
1:15:54source of income, and also the
1:15:56flexibility with the job has also been
1:15:58really, really helpful.
1:16:00And I also just wanted So, I understand
1:16:03we need to have jobs for everyone, and I
1:16:06always prefer a human
1:16:09to a machine and a robot, especially
1:16:12with um telephone calls, but I
1:16:15appreciate dishwashers and washing
1:16:17machines and dryers and robot vacuum
1:16:19cleaners. I think they do have a place
1:16:21in our lives and technology.
1:16:24Um
1:16:25But anyway, I guess uh
1:16:27I think we the future will be one as as
1:16:32we build a more sustainable future, one
1:16:34that emphasizes transit and cycling and
1:16:37walking and shared vehicles.
1:16:39And um
1:16:40I look forward to hearing from the
1:16:42unions about I agree you should be our
1:16:44partner in all of this and thinking
1:16:47about like if shared vehicles are the
1:16:50future, how do we make this happen in a
1:16:53way that supports humans?
1:16:57I and
1:16:59in in that will work and I I realize
1:17:02that that will be a a dance like that's
1:17:05a complicated question to solve but I
1:17:07think
1:17:09I get the feeling this is the future so
1:17:11I think we need to work together and
1:17:14come up with some solutions
1:17:17so that the technology isn't putting
1:17:23it it's going to change work but I think
1:17:26we need to figure out how to
1:17:29to work with it.
1:17:31To plan for the future. So
1:17:34there we go. Thank you. Cathy.
1:17:38>> Councilor McGovern.
1:17:40>> Thank you Mr. Chair for I'm not a member
1:17:43of this committee so thanks for letting
1:17:44me
1:17:45chime in.
1:17:47Certainly want to thank everybody for
1:17:48being here
1:17:50today and for public comment.
1:17:52Learned quite a bit.
1:17:54Never heard of deadhead miles.
1:17:57Um
1:17:58would have thought that was a driver
1:18:00listening to the Grateful Dead which is
1:18:01problematic in its own way
1:18:04but that's an interesting
1:18:07an interesting point. Um but I was
1:18:10thinking of something that um
1:18:12Ms. Weintraub said about you know what
1:18:15is the problem we're trying to solve
1:18:16here, right? And and I do wonder
1:18:19you know when we talk about um
1:18:24you know traffic or mobility
1:18:27and there are some you know there are
1:18:29some some I think some
1:18:32some points where um
1:18:34having a self-driving car may be useful
1:18:36for someone on in the private sector if
1:18:38you're thinking of someone who's older
1:18:40who, you know, I mean
1:18:43I think about when my grandparents were
1:18:44alive and
1:18:47you know, they should not have been
1:18:49driving.
1:18:50Um,
1:18:51so that's, you know, that's
1:18:53you know, that's that's not
1:18:54insignificant. Um, but a car on the road
1:18:57is a car on the road, right? And and so,
1:19:00you know, whether someone's driving it
1:19:01or it's driving himself
1:19:04it's not solving our traffic problem.
1:19:06It's not, you know, it's still going to
1:19:08be it's still a vehicle on the road and
1:19:10if we really want to deal with that the
1:19:12that's about public transit. Um, it's
1:19:14about buses. It's about reliable subway
1:19:17transportation. It's about getting
1:19:18people out of cars and onto bikes if,
1:19:20you know, those who can. That's going to
1:19:22reduce cars, you know, on the road.
1:19:25Um, you know, I just I I know it's it's
1:19:28easy to get seduced by technology.
1:19:30Technology can be really
1:19:32um, can be really great. Uh, and
1:19:34fascinating and moving us towards, you
1:19:36know, living the Jetsons, you know,
1:19:38future. Um, but that doesn't mean that
1:19:40it's always good, right? And that
1:19:41doesn't mean that
1:19:43um,
1:19:43there aren't consequences to that. And
1:19:45so I am really concerned about
1:19:47you know, the loss of of jobs for
1:19:49people.
1:19:50Um, the
1:19:51you know, um
1:19:53Mr. Samentior talked about, you know,
1:19:55was a taxi driver.
1:19:58Taxis kind of, you know, Uber came along
1:20:00and killed that industry. But you were
1:20:02able to switch
1:20:03to driving Uber. You're not going to be
1:20:05able to switch to driving an autonomous
1:20:07car because it's an autonomous car. And
1:20:09we're always so quick when we're talking
1:20:12about working class jobs
1:20:14we're always so quick to say, "Oh, they
1:20:15can just get retrained."
1:20:17Or we'll just have them do something
1:20:18else. And I and I just, you know, why we
1:20:22you know, when it's working class people
1:20:24we're so quick to just say, "Oh, just
1:20:27have them do something something
1:20:28different." But and that always concerns
1:20:30me because that I think is a class
1:20:32issue.
1:20:33Um
1:20:35and that's not easy to do nor should,
1:20:37you know,
1:20:38people be forced into that. So,
1:20:41you know, I think I agree with that it's
1:20:43a hard wave to stop and I don't think we
1:20:46necessarily can.
1:20:48Um
1:20:49but I do, you know, we couple months ago
1:20:52we all most of us sat in here when the
1:20:54um
1:20:56Central Square uh theater did their
1:20:58reenactment of the summer uh city
1:21:02council meeting where they were
1:21:03discussing DNA research, right? Which
1:21:06was cutting edge and new and the new
1:21:07technology and some people liked it and
1:21:09some people didn't. And although
1:21:11Cambridge, you know, could can't sort of
1:21:13stop it on a national level, it was
1:21:15Cambridge that set up the regulations
1:21:17that guided that entire industry for the
1:21:20country. So, there is a role, you know,
1:21:22for us on the local level to help,
1:21:26you know, guide those larger issues that
1:21:28cuz ultimately it is going to have to
1:21:29happen at the state. I mean, if
1:21:30Cambridge has no to Waymo, but
1:21:32Somerville says yes and Arlington says
1:21:34no and someone else says it that's not
1:21:36feasible, right? So, this is going to
1:21:37happen at the state, but we do have an
1:21:39opportunity here in Cambridge especially
1:21:41as the innovation capital of the city of
1:21:44the state um to help shape what those
1:21:47regulations are and make sure that this
1:21:49isn't uh at the expense of of working
1:21:52people in in our community. So, I thank
1:21:55you all very much for your testimony and
1:21:56for being here. Looking forward, Mr.
1:21:58Chair, to your further um leadership on
1:22:01this and um
1:22:03you know, I think I think the commitment
1:22:05of the city has always been to protect
1:22:07working people
1:22:08um and I don't anticipate that's going
1:22:10to change. Thank you.
1:22:12>> Well, thank you very much.
1:22:14Um so, I'd just like to say a few things
1:22:17and then um
1:22:19we can move on with our lives for the
1:22:20moment, but
1:22:22>> [clears throat]
1:22:23>> I'm um
1:22:25not opposed to technological advances,
1:22:27obviously, like anyone here,
1:22:30but I'm
1:22:32I see the parallel
1:22:35and
1:22:37in my view
1:22:39the
1:22:40destruction, I think, in many ways of
1:22:44our society by the advancement of some
1:22:48technologies. And I and I think of
1:22:52social media and I'm thinking of really
1:22:56about my own son and his friends and
1:22:59many young people who become dependent
1:23:03on, say for instance, cell phones,
1:23:05devices, and they don't learn how to
1:23:08interact with one another and with
1:23:11people and they use it as a defense
1:23:13mechanism. And the isolation that the
1:23:18the technological advances of those
1:23:20devices and social media the the harm
1:23:24and the destruction that all that
1:23:26causes. I'm sure when this was all first
1:23:30developed we didn't think about all of
1:23:33these unintended consequences that
1:23:35really have become very, very harmful in
1:23:39society. And there's there's a parallel
1:23:42in my mind
1:23:44between autonomous vehicles and the
1:23:47social isolation that
1:23:50has been in many ways just amplified
1:23:55by social [clears throat] media and
1:23:57devices such as cell phones. So, I think
1:24:00we need to be very cautious as we move
1:24:02forward. I hadn't thought about deadhead
1:24:06miles, didn't know about that term and
1:24:10hadn't really thought about the
1:24:12congestion that could be caused by
1:24:15private ownership of autonomous
1:24:19vehicles, but what an amazing thought
1:24:22that is. What what an unintended
1:24:25consequence if our already uh
1:24:29overstressed highways and byways and
1:24:32roadways here in Massachusetts mirrored
1:24:35that of Los Angeles overnight because we
1:24:38suddenly had autonomous vehicles driving
1:24:42around rather than paying the $42
1:24:45that people have to pay for parking to
1:24:47visit downtown Boston. And I think again
1:24:50of my own life and the transportation
1:24:53um obstacles that I face every day. Um
1:24:57you know, my responsibilities
1:24:59professional and personally cause me to
1:25:01drive all around Eastern Massachusetts
1:25:03on a daily basis. And it's not something
1:25:06I choose or want to do. I'd love to be
1:25:09able to ride a bike to Harvard Square
1:25:11every day in a tweed jacket and stop for
1:25:15a uh
1:25:16for for a mocha on the way and
1:25:19and have high-minded and highbrow
1:25:21conversations, but I can't. It's just
1:25:24not the reality of my life.
1:25:26And uh and I think of just
1:25:28Tuesday morning trying to travel from
1:25:30Mass General Hospital back to Cambridge
1:25:33City Hall at 9:15 a.m. to join our
1:25:36discussion, a very important discussion
1:25:38here. And when I came over the uh salt
1:25:41and pepper shaker bridge, I encountered
1:25:43construction and changed roadways and a
1:25:48uh and large trucks waiting for a uh
1:25:51for the light to turn make a left-hand
1:25:53turn and I was able to get around
1:25:55traffic on the right in a very safe
1:25:58lawful way
1:25:59uh to avoid sitting at that red light
1:26:02for three or four cycles
1:26:04that would have prohibited my
1:26:06involvement um here in our city council
1:26:09discussions if I if I were in an
1:26:12autonomous vehicle that hadn't been able
1:26:14to make human changes based upon real
1:26:17life road conditions. Uh And I think
1:26:20again, and I don't want to belabor the
1:26:23point, I think of
1:26:25the um
1:26:27you know, the the jobs and
1:26:30you know, having uh experienced a little
1:26:33bit of an understanding the difficulties
1:26:37people went through uh purcha-
1:26:39purchasing medallions that were then
1:26:41lost uh and Uber and Lyft took over and
1:26:44then to face the
1:26:47uh on the horizon Waymo, it's just it's
1:26:51it's mind-boggling to me, especially
1:26:53when I consider my grandfather and the
1:26:56impact that his job and his involvement
1:26:59in the union and being a uh
1:27:02really a union leader of 589 and the
1:27:05impact that had and the the the
1:27:07opportunities afforded my own family.
1:27:10And I know for certain that my life
1:27:12would be very different without that
1:27:14without that union job that I I probably
1:27:17would never have become a lawyer in my
1:27:19own life. I wouldn't have had the
1:27:21academic opportunities that were
1:27:23presented to me and and just the chances
1:27:26that I got simply because my
1:27:28grandfather, one of his jobs, and he
1:27:30worked two, was driving a bus and um it
1:27:35transformed my life. And uh I think of
1:27:39you know, hard-working families and and
1:27:42middle-class families in Cambridge today
1:27:45uh and it's a different time and it's a
1:27:47different life, but I want all those
1:27:49people to have the opportunities that my
1:27:51family had, that I've had. And uh
1:27:54because of that, I think that we've got
1:27:56to think very closely about this. We've
1:27:58got to monitor what's happening in the
1:28:00legislature and I I need to make do some
1:28:04research myself to find out what the
1:28:07uh standards are now
1:28:09for uh testing autonomous vehicles and
1:28:12pilot programs in Massachusetts so we
1:28:14can make certain that uh, we're prepared
1:28:17to make informed decisions if any of
1:28:20that um,
1:28:22seeks to, uh,
1:28:24creep its way into our uh, thought
1:28:27process and decision-making
1:28:29responsibilities, obligations, and
1:28:31authorities here in the city of
1:28:32Cambridge. So,
1:28:34we've got a lot to talk about and
1:28:37Councillor Zusey has something and
1:28:39Councillor Nolan also has something that
1:28:41they'd like to add to the conversation.
1:28:43So, Councillor Zusey first. Oh, well,
1:28:46Councillor Nolan has to leave first. So,
1:28:48she's going to cut the line. Councillor
1:28:50Nolan's going to cut the line.
1:28:52>> Super quickly. I think everyone here
1:28:53also agrees something like this is
1:28:55coming eventually and the whole idea is
1:28:58that we just morally cannot do it
1:29:02without thinking through and
1:29:03understanding the consequences
1:29:06on all of the issues that were outlined
1:29:08and as Councillor McGovern said, the
1:29:11working people who are in this industry.
1:29:12So, that's I mean, that's I know I kind
1:29:14of said that but and I know all of you
1:29:16understand and yet irresponsibly moving
1:29:19ahead is not something we should ever
1:29:21tolerate. So,
1:29:23>> Well, it's
1:29:24Yeah, absolutely. Thank you very much
1:29:26and before I let
1:29:28Councillor Zusey, uh, speak again, I I
1:29:31did want to say one of the things I
1:29:32forgot to mention was
1:29:34I I want to thank, uh, Executive
1:29:36Director Tenneyhouse for her comments
1:29:39because my mother um,
1:29:41and still does and for many years has
1:29:43taken ride share
1:29:45and it it is a very, very complicated
1:29:50way
1:29:51to, uh, navigate transportation and to
1:29:54be left and she's had this experience,
1:29:57not being picked up after a funeral and,
1:30:00um,
1:30:01not having a real live person, a human
1:30:04being
1:30:05uh, answer a telephone call for her
1:30:08and this is that that becomes an
1:30:10emergency situation uh very very
1:30:13quickly. So, I appreciate your
1:30:15perspective and I and I want to thank
1:30:17you for your for your comments because
1:30:18that is that is well-placed and
1:30:21well-made. So, thank you and Counselor
1:30:23Lucy, go ahead, please. I'm sorry.
1:30:24>> I The point I was I'm making is
1:30:27basically the point Counselor Nolan was
1:30:29making but with different words.
1:30:31So, 21 states as of today have um full
1:30:37self-driving, they allow for full
1:30:38self-driving vehicles.
1:30:41Um they're all over the place. Uh
1:30:44but most of them are in the south or
1:30:46places that it's warmer with less snow.
1:30:49Only when I was looking at a map, only
1:30:51North Dakota was a northern state. We
1:30:54You know, you've got Arizona,
1:30:56California, Florida, Georgia,
1:30:59uh Texas, Tennessee, Oklahoma, Alabama,
1:31:02Arkansas, Colorado. I mean, they're all
1:31:04over the place. So, I think this is the
1:31:07future. So, I think uh again, to make
1:31:09the same point that we've all been
1:31:11making, you know, we need to work
1:31:13together and figure out I I think this
1:31:15is the future. So, I think we need to
1:31:17figure out how to make it work um with
1:31:21uh
1:31:22uh
1:31:23least negative impact
1:31:26on the on the larger population. And um
1:31:30it will provide some opportunities and I
1:31:33will tell you again, when I'm tired,
1:31:35sometimes I feel as though my car would
1:31:37it would actually make better decisions
1:31:39than I would cuz you realize when you
1:31:42are in a self-driving mode
1:31:44of how much of your brain is engaged
1:31:47when you're
1:31:48driving. Like you're you're watching
1:31:50everything, you're listening to
1:31:51everything. There's so many uh visual,
1:31:55three-dimensional visual things that
1:31:57you're aware of.
1:31:58But um so, I I think it it it is an
1:32:01opportunity and I think it is the
1:32:03future, but we need to learn
1:32:06how to make it work for us [snorts] and
1:32:07not have it control us, but we need to
1:32:11come up with the proper regulations,
1:32:13guidelines,
1:32:15uh criteria to make it it it work for
1:32:19us. Thank you.
1:32:23>> Well, thank you very much, Counselor
1:32:25Zuse, and I I think maybe we will
1:32:27um take a look at futuristic ideas, but
1:32:31I think first maybe well, this is my
1:32:33view only. Um we've got to figure out
1:32:35the dangers associated with AI and uh
1:32:38there's been a clarion call from so many
1:32:40of the
1:32:41um Anthropic and Nvidia and others that
1:32:46we we really need to understand what
1:32:48we're doing before we get too far along.
1:32:52Um and
1:32:54um
1:32:56you know, Pope Pope Leo wrote a piece
1:32:58about AI and the dangers associated with
1:33:01AI, so it's a it's a good read.
1:33:03So, anyhow,
1:33:05uh on a motion from uh Counselor
1:33:08McGovern,
1:33:09I think uh we've
1:33:12uh you can't make a motion or by a
1:33:14motion from Counselor Zuse.
1:33:16Um
1:33:17so, you get double do that. I was trying
1:33:19to be fair and give Counselor McGovern
1:33:22an opportunity to participate any more,
1:33:24but uh on a motion from uh Counselor
1:33:27Zuse, we're going to move to adjourn.
1:33:30Uh all those in favor, say I. I. The
1:33:33eyes have it.
1:33:33>> You You can't do a voice vote cuz
1:33:35Counselor Sabrina Wheeler's online.
1:33:37>> Oh, I'm sorry.
1:33:38>> That's okay.
1:33:39So, Vice Mayor Azeem?
1:33:41Absent. Counselor Flaherty?
1:33:43>> Yes.
1:33:43>> Yes. Counselor Nolan? Absent. Counselor
1:33:45Sabrina Wheeler?
1:33:47>> Yes.
1:33:47>> Yes. Counselor Zuse?
1:33:48>> Yes.
1:33:49>> Yes. That's three members voting in the
1:33:50affirmative, two recorded as absent.
1:33:53>> Thank you very much.
1:33:56>> If you need an interpreter regarding
1:33:58questions about voting in Cambridge,
1:34:00please call 617-865-2273.
1:34:04Register today and take the first step
1:34:06towards voting.
1:34:09>> [music]
1:34:19[music]
1:34:21>> Believe it or not, this was the site of
1:34:23the waterline on the night of April 18,
1:34:25[music] 1775
1:34:27when the British soldiers came ashore.
1:34:29You might not think of that now [music]
1:34:31since the Charles River is so far away,
1:34:33but during the time of the Revolutionary
1:34:36War, this was the tidal flat. Cambridge
1:34:38poet Henry Wadsworth Longfellow made
1:34:40[music] famous the expression one if by
1:34:43land, two if by sea in his poem Paul
1:34:45Revere's Ride.
1:34:49What many people don't realize is that
1:34:51the two if by sea [music] portion meant
1:34:53that the British troops landed in East
1:34:56Cambridge. On the night of April 18th
1:34:58and 19th, [music]
1:34:591775 when the Charles River covered a
1:35:02larger area of East Cambridge, British
1:35:04officers chose to sail from Boston
1:35:05[music]
1:35:06to East Cambridge because it was one of
1:35:08the shortest and least conspicuous
1:35:09routes to what would become known as the
1:35:12Battle of Lexington [music] and Concord.
1:35:30>> Hi, I'm Carolina Almonte, executive
1:35:33director of the Commission on Immigrant
1:35:35Rights and Citizenship. Right now, one
1:35:38of the most important things we can do
1:35:39as a community is make sure people
1:35:41understand their rights.
1:35:43Our commission works to support and
1:35:45protect immigrant residents and visitors
1:35:47in Cambridge.
1:35:48>> [music]
1:35:48>> That includes connecting people to
1:35:50resources, advocating for policies, and
1:35:53most importantly, making sure people
1:35:54have access to accurate information.
1:35:57One of the key areas we focus on is know
1:36:00your rights education. So, what does
1:36:02that mean?
1:36:03It means helping people understand what
1:36:05to do if they encounter immigration
1:36:07enforcement. It means knowing that you
1:36:09have the right to remain silent. That
1:36:11you have the right to not open your door
1:36:13unless officers present a valid judicial
1:36:16warrant. And that you have the right to
1:36:18speak with an attorney.
1:36:19>> [music]
1:36:19>> These rights apply regardless of
1:36:22immigration status. Until next time,
1:36:24stay informed and stand in your power.
1:36:28>> [music]
1:36:56[music]
1:37:05[music]
1:37:13[music]
1:37:27[music]
1:37:31[music]
1:37:45[music]
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1:38:15[music]
1:38:19>> During the sweep season, which is April
1:38:211st through December 31st, we remove
1:38:24about 1,400 tons
1:38:26of street cleaning debris from the
1:38:28streets of Cambridge. About 60% of that,
1:38:30[music] maybe 800 tons or so, is during
1:38:33the fall months, which we consider to be
1:38:36leaf season, [music] October, November,
1:38:37and December.
1:38:42The number of people that it takes
1:38:43[music] to perform this operation
1:38:45typically is seven people during a