2026-10-01 - Housing Committee - Central Square Rezoning

00:00Boo.

00:05Can you try speaking again, Jeff?

00:09We are still having some technical

00:11difficulties here. Apologies about that,

00:13Jeff.

00:14Um maybe we'll go to the presentation

00:15from city staff and see if we can get

00:17that fixed in the meantime.

00:19Also, before we go any further, I do

00:21just want to uh one of the folks we're

00:22recognizing is going to be transitioning

00:24before too long and has been a big part

00:26of the arts and cultural institutions in

00:28Cambridge for a long time. Uh we're

00:30going to ask if we can give a round of

00:31applause for Jason Weeks.

00:33>> [applause]

00:37>> Thank you.

00:38Um so now I will turn it over to city

00:40staff for the presentation.

00:44>> Yeah, thank you, Chair Sabrina Wheeler.

00:46Um really excited to be here today to

00:48talk about this important topic. Um

00:51appreciate the shout-out for Jason and

00:53just the importance of arts and culture

00:54in Central Square, but in the community.

00:56Um and you'll see the staff here kind of

00:58spans the range of economic opportunity

01:01and development um and um arts and

01:04cultural preservation. And it's so

01:06important that as we uh

01:08plan for new development um that we

01:10consider the importance of what makes

01:13Central Square the heart of the city.

01:15And so uh I will turn it over to Brian

01:17Gregory, our project manager on the

01:19Central Square rezoning, to talk about

01:21how zoning can be used as a tool to help

01:23get the community benefits we want.

01:27>> Thank you, Melissa, and uh through you,

01:29chairs. Uh

01:30welcome to everyone. I want to thank you

01:32for joining us today and lending your

01:33voice to this conversation. Uh it's

01:36critical to us that we ensure the

01:37rezoning of Central Square is informed

01:39by the knowledge and the lived

01:40real-world experiences of the key

01:42institutions in Central Square. Uh so we

01:44really welcome this opportunity to hear

01:46directly from you.

01:47Uh next slide, please.

01:50Uh first, Melissa did this a little bit,

01:51but I just wanted to acknowledge that

01:52many hands have have touched this and

01:54contributed to this project to date. Uh

01:56internally, it's been a collaboration

01:57across a number of divisions and

01:59departments.

02:03So, for today, we'll start off by

02:04orienting everyone with a brief overview

02:06of the project. Uh, we'll provide an

02:08opportunity for public comment, but I'm

02:09really hoping to spend the vast majority

02:11of the time on uh active discussion to

02:13hear and learn from you all.

02:15Uh, and then we'll wrap up with next

02:17steps, and I'll mention some additional

02:18opportunities for engagement.

02:21Next slide.

02:22So, I'll start off with a brief overview

02:23of the project and how it presents a

02:25unique opportunity to support arts,

02:27culture, and nightlife in Central

02:28Square.

02:29Next slide.

02:32So, Central Square is one of the most

02:33interesting, diverse, and transit rich

02:35areas of Cambridge. I had the

02:36opportunity to work there for 8 years uh

02:38before I even joined the city. I met my

02:40wife there, interestingly enough, in

02:41Brick & Mortar. It's a place near and

02:43dear to me. Um,

02:45it presents a really fantastic

02:46opportunity for responsible, inclusive

02:48growth, and that's something that we

02:50feel has been reinforced by many prior

02:52studies from Envision through past

02:54studies um

02:55like Central Square during K2C2.

02:58What we really want to do is leverage

02:59that opportunity while preserving what

03:00makes Central Square unique and a place

03:02that we all love. Uh, this project aims

03:04to do that by uh the three goals that we

03:06have up on the screen today. Um, these

03:08are sort of our guiding lights, creating

03:10more housing both to address the uh

03:12housing crisis, but also to bring more

03:14people into the square to support its

03:15amazing businesses and organizations.

03:18Uh, our the second goal, our focus

03:19really today, uh preserving, supporting,

03:21and growing it as Cambridge's hub of

03:23arts, culture, and nightlife.

03:25And lastly, reinforcing its identity as

03:27the city's historic downtown.

03:30Next slide.

03:34So, this project has a long lineage. I

03:36think when we sort of kicked off back in

03:372024, that was that was made evident.

03:40Uh,

03:40it leverages many prior planning

03:43efforts. Um, and I mentioned some a

03:44little previously, but you can see some

03:45on on the slide here as well, um going

03:48back 15 plus years. We really see this

03:50as a culmination of this work and the

03:52project really benefits from the strong

03:54foundation that all these these efforts

03:56created. Um what's interesting is that

03:58for all of these, a through line linking

04:00every study is the critical role of

04:02arts, culture, and nightlife in what

04:03they play in Central Square's identity.

04:06Next slide.

04:11So I'm sure I don't have to tell any of

04:12you here this that uh arts and culture

04:14are central to the square's identity,

04:16pardon the pun. Uh this has been the

04:18case historically uh through today, and

04:20you all are a testament to and stewards

04:22of this amazing place and legacy. Uh

04:25for any who don't know, this is

04:26Cambridge's only cultural district. Uh

04:28that's a state designation. Uh it's an

04:30acknowledgement of the rich diversity

04:32and concentration of artistic and

04:34cultural resources that are in the

04:35square.

04:37Succinctly for me and for many, I think,

04:39uh Central is Cambridge's heart of the

04:40arts.

04:43Next slide.

04:47There are so many people, places,

04:49partnerships, and programs that

04:50contribute to making Central Square our

04:52cultural hub. Uh the city, the BID, CRA,

04:56most importantly, institutions like

04:57yourselves continue to make substantial

04:59positive impacts. We have a couple of

05:01them sort of displayed here. Um in the

05:03bottom right, we have the artwork for

05:04Carl Barron, which is having its opening

05:06tomorrow. We'll be there, and we hope to

05:08see all of you there, too. I'm sure

05:09it'll be a fantastic time.

05:12Uh next slide, please.

05:15However, uh these efforts alone haven't

05:17prevented the loss of some cherished

05:18spaces. Uh by our estimate, roughly

05:2030,000 square feet of cultural space has

05:22been lost in Central Square in the past

05:2410 years. Many of these closures are

05:26artist workspaces, especially rehearsal

05:28and production spaces.

05:30So what So it becomes apparent is that

05:32the status quo isn't necessarily

05:33presenting these these outcomes that we

05:35don't want.

05:36Uh this isn't unique to Cambridge,

05:38however. It's really part of a regional

05:39pattern, though. Uh next slide.

05:44Because of this, Cambridge has been

05:46proactively collaborating with Boston,

05:48Somerville, and the Metropolitan Area

05:50Planning Council (MAPC) uh in a regional

05:52effort focused on securing cultural

05:54space. Uh it comprehensively studied the

05:56arts and cultural landscape, uh

06:00collected and shared information and

06:01strategies, helped understand

06:03opportunities and challenges that

06:05cultural spaces face,

06:06and many of these findings, which you

06:08can see summarized up here, and

06:10takeaways, uh have a direct relationship

06:12to zoning. So, they're immediately

06:13pertinent to the project in the effort

06:15of what we're doing right now.

06:17Next slide.

06:21But first, I don't want to assume

06:23everybody joining us or tuning in online

06:24is necessarily a zoning expert. So, I

06:26just want to briefly clarify what zoning

06:28is if this is indeed the mechanism we're

06:30looking at here. Uh zoning is

06:32fundamentally a regulatory land use and

06:34development tool. It simply tells you

06:36what you can and potentially cannot uh

06:39do with your property. It's usually

06:40composed of sort of a written ordinance

06:42uh paired with zoning maps.

06:45Next slide.

06:48What it does is it regulates things like

06:50use,

06:51residential, commercial, industrial,

06:53mixed use,

06:55uh building size and shape, height, and

06:57setbacks,

06:58requirements, things like sustainability

07:00or parking for instance or bicycle

07:02parking, um and incentives, which I want

07:05to dwell on in a little further in just

07:07a moment.

07:08And when used thoughtfully and

07:09creatively, zoning can promote and guide

07:11inclusive future growth.

07:14However, there's something that I'd also

07:15clarify about zoning.

07:17It cannot preserve specific businesses

07:19or spaces despite how much we would like

07:21really want it to,

07:22but there are ways that we can help

07:24ensure that through growth we preserve

07:26and expand the opportunities for

07:27cultural spaces.

07:30To that point,

07:31based on how zoning works as a

07:33mechanism, we only get community benefit

07:35benefits through zoning from new

07:37development. So, it's it's they're sort

07:38of uh related in that way fundamentally.

07:42And also, I just really want to stress,

07:43I know we've had a I feel like a lot of

07:45the talks are about zoning in Cambridge

07:48in general, but and it's incredibly

07:50important and powerful tool.

07:51But it's not the panacea and it's not

07:53the only tool in our tool belt and so

07:55as we think about this, it behooves us

07:57to think about this holistically and

07:58that's why I'm so glad to have some of

08:00my colleagues here, many of whom manage

08:02complimentary programs and city

08:03initiatives that are meant to go hand in

08:04glove with um what we're hoping the

08:07zoning will achieve.

08:10Next slide.

08:13So as I mentioned, incentives is one of

08:15the things that zoning can do and I want

08:16to just to dig a little bit more into

08:18what that means. Um these are

08:20fundamentally a mechanism for

08:21encouraging new development to provide

08:23community benefits in exchange for

08:25allowing things developers want more of.

08:28They're a trade-off that often

08:30acknowledges the increased cost of

08:31providing these community benefits so

08:33that developers actually want to produce

08:35them.

08:36Uh there are several types.

08:38Um these range from things like allowing

08:40for greater height to excluding some of

08:43the uses you might want to see from

08:44density limits.

08:48Next slide, please.

08:50Um but before I jump into our specific

08:53thinking about arts and cultural

08:54incentives, I also just wanted to

08:55highlight how um the zoning goals are

08:59are more holistic and interlink to

09:01support the cultural district as well.

09:03So goals around increased housing will

09:05bring more people to the square, uh more

09:07people living in the square, provide

09:08additional places hopefully for artists

09:10to live, but also people to support like

09:11I mentioned those businesses. Uh one of

09:13the aspects we're exploring with that

09:14also is things around even just uh

09:16incentivizing artist housing and others

09:18so that that's something that's

09:19currently under exploration as part of

09:20that the housing umbrella.

09:23Active ground floor uses uh enliven the

09:25public realm, drive foot traffic to the

09:27distance. A healthy retail destination

09:29is also a healthy destination for arts

09:31and culture.

09:33And incentivizing and encouraging new

09:34open spaces This additional spaces to

09:36gather, relax, and celebrate. Critically

09:38important not only for the arts, but

09:40also for the notion that this is our

09:41civic heart and center. It's important

09:43place for people to come and congregate

09:45and have community.

09:48Uh next slide.

09:53So, that's a little of how it does in

09:55the constellation, but we want to sort

09:57of drill down into this. So, we see this

09:59project as an opportunity to to

10:00proactively craft zoning that preserves,

10:02supports, and grows arts and cultural

10:04uses. So, currently, if you read the

10:06Central Square's zoning ordinance, you

10:08wouldn't know that this is Cambridge's

10:10cultural district. Um we intend for that

10:12not to be the case going forward, and

10:14you'll see this is for me actually a

10:15guiding star. This comment was from our

10:17our engagement back in 2024. Someone

10:20challenged us, if you looked at the

10:21zoning only, how would you know it's the

10:23cultural district? And I I would like to

10:24think the litmus test, at least for

10:25myself, is

10:27when and if this moves forward,

10:29it will be immediately apparent to

10:31people when you open the the Central

10:33Square section that this is where arts

10:34live in Cambridge, and where we really

10:36want to reinforce that identity.

10:39Next slide, please.

10:43>> [clears throat]

10:44>> So, the strategies we've been exploring

10:46to produce cultural benefits really fall

10:47into two main buckets. On the left-hand

10:50side, you see ones that create new

10:52spaces, and on the right-hand side, ones

10:54that preserve and support existing

10:55spaces.

10:57These are the cultural community

10:58benefits we're pursuing. These are the

10:59things we're looking to get, and I'll

11:02explain them in more detail in just a

11:03moment.

11:05Uh the incentives, the sort of two at

11:07the bottom there, are the things we're

11:08allowing to exchange. And they're

11:10designed, however, to align with the

11:12other goals for this project. So, it's

11:14hopefully all pulling in the same

11:15direction and not sort of

11:17uh in opposition to one another.

11:19So, allowing for increased housing in um

11:23in return for arts and culture uses

11:25fundamentally underpins the want for

11:26providing additional housing and

11:27addressing the housing crisis in the

11:29city.

11:30And exempting cultural spaces from FAR,

11:33sort of a jargony term, but it's it's

11:34density uses,

11:36allows us to create cultural spaces that

11:38aren't also competing with people's

11:40ability to create those spaces as well.

11:41We want to both and we don't want people

11:43thinking we're trying to create an

11:44either/or.

11:47Uh next slide, please.

11:51So, each of these, just to boil it down

11:54to its simplest terms, is a if this,

11:55then that. If you create new or preserve

11:58existing cultural space, you get

11:59additional development potential. These

12:01are just a different set of options to

12:04each achieve that.

12:06The range of strategies, and we have

12:07four that I'll walk through, is intended

12:09to support a diversity of outcomes,

12:12provide flexibility, and acknowledge

12:13that each development in each site is a

12:15unique opportunity.

12:18So, uh I'll start with these, which are

12:20the sort of expand and grow. We've we've

12:22heard in meetings that we've hosted both

12:24in 2024 recently, um and through the

12:26online survey that is currently open and

12:28ongoing, that there was a strong desire

12:30for new cultural space in Central

12:31Square, both to replace uh spaces that

12:33we've lost and to create new

12:34opportunities.

12:36So, on the left-hand side, this is

12:37probably the most intuitive. If you're

12:39building a new development, create a

12:41cultural space inside of it, and you

12:43unlock uh a density bonus in some way,

12:45shape, or form.

12:47Uh the one on the right is very similar,

12:50but is um

12:51is an opportunity for people with

12:53potentially more than one site within

12:54the district to sort of um distribute

12:57those programs. And one could imagine

12:58maybe there's a more impactful use or

13:00something where it makes sense for the

13:02cultural to be a little more free

13:03standing or it's going in an historic

13:05building that we'd like to preserve or

13:06anything to that. It allows people to

13:08incentivize them to do that, but still

13:10recoup the cost of that investment in

13:12creating that community benefit on a

13:14different site

13:15within the district explicitly.

13:18Uh next slide.

13:21So, these are the sort of preserve and

13:23support. Um want to acknowledge that

13:25while new spaces are always exciting, uh

13:27we can't lose focus on all the amazing

13:29institutions and organizations that have

13:32and continue to make Central Square a

13:34wonderful place for arts and culture.

13:36These incentives are to ensure that a

13:38rising tide lifts all boats, that

13:40long-standing institutions also benefit

13:42from new growth. So on the left-hand

13:45side here,

13:46existing stabilization, maybe a little

13:48jargony, I'll work on that, but

13:50it's the opportunity for someone to

13:51acquire and preserve an existing arts

13:54and cultural space to unlock the bonus.

13:55So we don't always want to incentivize

13:57new space. Sometimes there are cherished

13:59spaces that are threatened. We want an

14:00opportunity to develop them to partner

14:02with those to ensure that they can

14:03continue in perpetuity and that that

14:06investment in that is reflected in the

14:08developer's ability to to sort of manage

14:10that project and move it forward

14:11successfully.

14:13And lastly on the right-hand side, you

14:14know, in some cases it may not always be

14:17beneficial to for a project to create or

14:19preserve cultural space due to its size,

14:21location, or other considerations. This

14:23is actually something we heard strongly

14:25from our partners in Somerville, which

14:26we've sort of connected with to share

14:28best practices on.

14:29So instead under certain conditions, new

14:33development would be able to make

14:35payment in lieu into a cultural

14:37stabilization fund that would be stood

14:39up.

14:40And then that would be available to arts

14:42and cultural organizations in Central

14:43Square that are existing to help sort of

14:46underpin them economically and help sort

14:48of lift them up as well.

14:52Next slide, please.

14:54So I want to wrap this up so that we can

14:56have time for public comment and for

14:58discussion, but I'll end with a quick

14:59snapshot of where we are today in the

15:00process.

15:01We're getting towards, you know, maybe

15:033/4 of the way through our our active

15:05community engagement. That's included

15:07the online survey. Hopefully people have

15:09taken that. A number of listening

15:10sessions, focus groups, and and

15:12graciously this round table.

15:14We'll be hoping hosting an in-person

15:16open house the evening of October 29th

15:19at Street Theory Collective. That'll be

15:21an opportunity to share the refined

15:23zoning recommendations with the

15:24community. That'll be an in-person

15:26event. We'd like to really get out into

15:27the square. Um, we will also have all

15:29that information online though for

15:31people who can't attend or want to sort

15:32of reflect on it.

15:34Um, and then we're hoping to pivot to

15:36drafting the zoning, um, you know, in

15:39November and December ideally depending

15:40on the time frames of other projects and

15:42the council's prerogative

15:44uh, and could be able to send something

15:46up by the beginning of at the end of the

15:48year rather uh, to start it off the

15:50public hearing process.

15:52And so with that I'll pass it back to

15:54the uh, to the committee co-chairs.

15:56>> Great. Thank you so much for that

15:57presentation. Um, we're going to go down

15:59to public comment just to preview the

16:00next session for the section for the

16:03cultural institutions that are here. We

16:05have a a slide in the deck uh, that says

16:07questions that we would love to hear

16:09from folks on. There's six in different

16:11bubble boxes if folks want to take a

16:12look at those questions as we go to

16:14public comment. That's going to be the

16:15next thing we go to.

16:17Uh, so I'll turn it now over to the the

16:19city clerk for public comment.

16:22>> Our first speaker is Dan Tauton.

16:30Um, Dan is not online or in person.

16:35Our

16:37next speaker is Raina

16:40Jaharvi.

16:48You're unmuted. Go ahead.

16:58I have unmuted you on our end. You have

16:59to unmute yourself

17:01on your end as well.

17:12>> Hello. Can you hear me now?

17:14>> Yes, go ahead.

17:16>> Wonderful. Hello everyone. My name is

17:18Rena Jhaveri. I'm a community arts

17:21organizer,

17:23uh a board director at the Cambridge

17:25Multicultural Arts Center, and the

17:27co-producer with the city of Cambridge

17:29and Mayor Siddiqui's office of the

17:31first, hopefully annual, uh Cambridge

17:34Cat Tour and Meow Fest. Um the deck

17:39shows us what Central Square has lost,

17:42but not why.

17:44Were those spaces that we lost, the

17:4630,000 square feet, were they lost to

17:49rent, to sale, or lack of use? And the

17:52answers matter, uh because new space

17:55built under the same economics could

17:56fail the same way.

17:59As someone who's deeply invested in

18:01local arts and cultural spaces actually

18:04being used as such by the community, I

18:06want to underline that spaces alone do

18:08not result in community engagement.

18:11Spaces need activation, facilitation,

18:13and experience shaping. People whose job

18:16it is to invite folks in, make it easy

18:19to participate, and design what happens

18:21once they arrive. I also want to name

18:24the current economic squeeze that we're

18:25in. This is just the reality.

18:27Restaurants, uh nightlife, and ticketed

18:30entertainment are getting increasingly

18:32out of reach for more and more people.

18:33So, my questions are: One, what does the

18:37city know about the current demand and

18:40from whom? Who is showing up and who is

18:42priced out? Two, how will these spaces

18:45support gathering that isn't built

18:47around spending money? And who is

18:49resourced to run it regularly? And

18:52three, could the cultural stabilization

18:54fund operate support operators and

18:57programming, not only real estate? And

18:59is there any accountability if a

19:01required space sits underused?

19:05I'd urge that activation criteria be

19:07part of what qualifies a space for the

19:09density incentive, a named steward, a

19:12plan for community access, and a funding

19:15source for programming.

19:17Space only matters if people can afford

19:19to use it and someone is there to open

19:22the door and shape the experience. I'd

19:24welcome the chance at a later point to

19:26share what I've learned from programming

19:28um at the Multicultural Arts Center as

19:30well as producing Miya Fest with the

19:32city. Thank you so much for the

19:34opportunity to speak.

19:36>> Thank you. Our next speaker is Lee

19:38Ferris.

19:46>> Uh can you hear me?

19:49>> We can. Go ahead.

19:50>> Great.

19:52Um

19:58I am uh

20:00totally in favor of

20:03having

20:05um

20:06supports for the arts in Central Square.

20:10But I also worry that

20:15the means of doing that will be

20:18development that will contribute to the

20:22uh gentrification and displacement that

20:25is already going on in our city.

20:28And I don't have an alternative program

20:31of how to

20:33um

20:35accomplish the support that we would all

20:37like to see.

20:39Uh but

20:41um

20:43I just want to make

20:46make it clear that there are a lot of

20:49people

20:50that

20:52are very doubtful that that

20:54um upzoning Central Square

20:57is going to be

20:59beneficial in the long run. And

21:03um

21:05I don't see

21:09for example, a approach where

21:13um

21:17there is

21:19benefits to Central Square arts

21:21organizations without development and I

21:24don't understand why those

21:27options are not explored and the

21:28previous speaker, Reina,

21:31um I thought asked very good questions.

21:34So, as since she is in the arts world

21:38and I am not, I think people should pay

21:40a lot of attention

21:41to her.

21:42Uh I'll stop there. Thank you.

21:45>> Thank you, Lee. We're going to go back

21:46to Dan Totten.

21:54>> Can you hear me?

21:55>> Yes, we can hear you. Go ahead.

21:56>> Okay, great. Uh my name is Dan Totten,

21:5854 Bishop Allen Drive. Um

22:01uh I just want to make two points. One

22:04is that

22:06again, like Lee, I

22:08like I'm so passionate

22:10who's left in Boston that is actually

22:13fun to go out in at night. Um and that

22:16and that

22:17by upzoning Central Square, we may be

22:21leading towards a situation where

22:22Central Square just becomes like another

22:24Seaport or another Assembly Row or

22:26another even just Boylston Street down

22:29in Fenway. They're just not special.

22:30They're full of like these chains that

22:32are not like at all attractive and we

22:34still have something really special in

22:35Central Square. So, I really, really

22:37hope that um as this conversation moves

22:40forward that we're not um

22:43we're not losing sight of that and that

22:46folks in the arts and culture community

22:48realize that um it's very important for

22:51the community to stand together as a

22:52whole and um not let the city sort of

22:55divide us up over, you know, like a fund

22:58that's going to give you a small amount

22:59of money at some point in 10 years,

23:00right? Like we need to stick together as

23:02the people, and I hope that the folks um

23:05the arts and culture community will hear

23:07that message with the best of intent. Um

23:09the second comment is just about

23:12um

23:13the timing of the zoning petitions.

23:15Like, there's a There's a slide in

23:17today's presentation that projects that

23:19there's going to be a Central Square

23:20zoning petition released at the end of

23:23the year, and I'm also aware that the

23:26city intends to

23:28um

23:29clarify the inclusionary zoning

23:31percentage, rightfully so, as we've

23:33asked, before it even moves forward with

23:35Central Square. So, how are you going to

23:36have a complex fraud discussion about

23:39the inclusionary percentage by the end

23:41of this year, and get to a point where

23:43you can introduce Central Square in

23:44January? And oh, by the way, the whole

23:46city's upset about multi-family, and you

23:47have to deal with that by the

23:50year.

23:5127, you might not have been watching for

23:53very long. So, I just pose the question

23:54of like, this is not a real timeline,

23:56and we should just be honest about that.

23:57Thank you.

23:59>> Thank you, Dan. That is all who signed

24:01up for public comment, and

24:03for the record, we have um Mayor

24:05Siddiqui at the table with you.

24:07>> Okay, thank you. I think that's the only

24:09other councilor joined since then. Um

24:10great, we're going to go on out of the

24:11questions and discussion section. I

24:14think we since we've started, we've had

24:15two of the other

24:17uh other panelists join on Zoom from

24:19cultural institutions, uh Kylie and uh

24:21Ziad. Do you want to go ahead [snorts]

24:23and introduce yourselves?

24:26If you could come off mute on the Zoom.

24:31>> Yes, hi. This is Ziad Sater from

24:33representing Nabil. And Nabil was the

24:35need to Nabil Sater from the Middle East

24:37Restaurant.

24:39Nabil, go ahead.

24:41>> Hello, folks, and good afternoon, and

24:43thank you thank you for all

24:45the hard work you've been doing to bring

24:48Central Square. Central Square is is my

24:51home. I've been in Central Square for

24:54almost 60 years, 55 years. The Middle

24:57East restaurant and nightclub started as

25:00a small little tiny 24 seats and and I'm

25:04really really honored and pleased that

25:07the city and all the city department

25:09that they helped to support the art and

25:12the culture. And it is really beautiful

25:15community. It's my home and I really

25:17want to keep the art, keep the music,

25:19keep the Middle East. Please go ahead

25:22and do whatever you can do and keep

25:24doing. You know, we appreciate you. We

25:27really support you and we're here to be

25:30part of Central Square forever and ever.

25:33I'm I'm

25:34just turning 79 and I'm willing to be

25:37here until the last day of my life to

25:39support you and support the art and the

25:41culture and the community for this

25:43beautiful town that we all love.

25:46And thank you so so much whatever needed

25:49from us.

25:51>> Thanks for being here. And Kylie, are

25:54you able to come off mute and introduce

25:55yourself?

25:56>> Yep, my name is Kylie Conners and I'm

25:58the general manager of Cantab Lounge.

26:02>> Great, thank you all for being here. So

26:03yeah, we're going to go on questions and

26:04discussion. We'd love to hear especially

26:06from the local

26:07community cultural institutions. I'm

26:08just going to read the questions quickly

26:10for anybody who doesn't as watching or

26:12doesn't have it in front of them. They

26:13are what are the most pressing

26:14challenges that arts and cultural

26:16institutions are facing in Central

26:17Square? Do you rent or own your space

26:20and how does that impact how you plan

26:21for the future?

26:23What assistance would you like to see

26:25from the city to help you stay in

26:26Central Square?

26:27Do any of the approaches shared today

26:29resonate strongly with with you?

26:32What one thing do you feel is the most

26:34critical for us to know as we advance

26:36this project? What's missing and are

26:39there other approaches we should be

26:40exploring? And I'm hearing that Kevin

26:43from Phoenix Landing maybe online as

26:44well. Kevin, could you introduce

26:46yourself?

26:48>> Yes,

26:49Kevin Trainer here from the Phoenix

26:50Landing.

26:53>> Great, thanks for being here.

26:55>> I just echo what Nabil was saying and

26:57it's I'm very happy to see this

26:59committee getting together before things

27:02happen in Central Square.

27:04Um

27:06I missed the start of the meeting, I

27:07apologize, but I we have a lot of issues

27:09going on

27:11regarding our buildings with our

27:12landlord and that. And

27:15he's basically given everyone a 2 and

27:171/2 year lease, but I met him yesterday,

27:19he said he's no plans as of now.

27:22My thought would be

27:25this is why I think it will happen.

27:27He'll offer us to go back into the

27:29locations.

27:31But this has happened me in Boston

27:33before and the cost of going back into

27:35the building was astronomical.

27:38And unless we hold these landlords

27:41accountable

27:42for some sort of payment towards us

27:45going back in, I think that's the only

27:47way that it'll happen, you know.

27:50But that's further down the road, as you

27:51say.

27:52I'm sorry I missed the

27:54topics before this, but I'll catch up.

27:57>> No worries, I beg you for your sharing

27:58that. That's exactly the the kind of

27:59issue we're we're trying to get here

28:01today.

28:02Um so yeah, open it up to questions and

28:03discussion. If folks could raise their

28:05hands either in person or hit the raise

28:06hand feature on Zoom, um we'll start a

28:08stack.

28:12Who wants to go first? Don't all jump at

28:14once. Oh uh yep, Brian, you want to go

28:16ahead?

28:17>> Sorry, through you, Chair. I just wanted

28:18to mention that these are meant to be

28:20prompt questions. I don't I don't want

28:21to sort of steer the conversation, we

28:23just wanted to sort of get it flowing.

28:24So, I just don't want people to feel

28:26beholden to that. It would certainly be

28:27really helpful for us to hear about

28:29those topics, but I just I just want to

28:31say that, you know, we're we're open to

28:32hear anything and everything. So, thank

28:34you for surfacing them.

28:35>> That's a great point.

28:40Uh folks who are not speaking on Zoom

28:42could mute. That would be helpful.

28:44All right.

28:45Who'd like to go first?

28:47I can't Counselor Zizi, did have your

28:48hand up? Did you want to go? What do

28:49folks think?

28:50>> I think your intention was that the art

28:53speak first, right? So, I'm I I would

28:54love to hear the art speak first.

29:01>> Okay, I'm good to go first. Um

29:04good afternoon everyone. Uh first and

29:06foremost, I just want to start with just

29:08saying how great it is that we're having

29:10these conversations

29:11um in a forum like the Sullivan Chamber

29:13today in City Hall that's a true

29:15representation of how serious the city

29:18is taking this zoning and and the

29:21cultural district, but outside of that,

29:23I've sat in at least five of these

29:25meetings with folks from around this

29:27table in the last few months. Really

29:29like starting to unpack this, like

29:31understand this.

29:33To answer one of the prompts, um

29:36a most pressing challenge that arts and

29:38cultural institutions are facing in

29:40Central Square. Just thinking about some

29:43of the beloved places that we all turn

29:47to on a weekend or Thursday Friday night

29:51are housed in one-story buildings,

29:53right? The Cantab, The Middle East, Man

29:57Ray, um

29:59The Phoenix Landing, Monkfish, La

30:01Fabrica, Middlesex. Um these are all

30:05really important places and they're not

30:07just like ground floor leases.

30:09Um so, any sizable upzoning does put

30:13those locations at list and I'd love to

30:16just talk about what protections we

30:18might be able to add. Yes,

30:21building box this big can get that big

30:24if the places go back in. The Kevin The

30:27point Kevin made around the cost of

30:29going back in, working with landlords,

30:32developers. Do you get a vanilla box? Do

30:34you get a rough finish? Do you have to

30:36bring out your plumbing? The cost of

30:38doing any of those things is so

30:42daunting. Um

30:44and then one of the uh public commenters

30:47really around

30:49um operators, you know, I'm so happy and

30:52grateful to be sitting next to two great

30:54operators and we have several operators

30:56on the line.

30:58Um

30:59but it's about the operator, too. It's

31:01not just about the the physical address

31:04or or the building. It's it's also about

31:06the operators and we don't have a huge

31:09farm league in greater Boston of folks

31:11who could just move into spaces. And I

31:13really question how can we have

31:15conversations around ownership versus

31:18leasehold?

31:19Um because ownership allows for

31:21operators to do more, to have longer

31:24tenure, and things like that. So, you

31:26know, with some of those fit-outs and

31:29and designs you showed, you know, is

31:31there a way that we could sort of

31:32condoize some of that stuff so there's

31:35more ownership into these new buildings

31:38at the ground floor with some of these

31:40operators.

31:42Um

31:43I'll hold that for now and turn it over

31:45to some of my counterparts and and add

31:48some more as the conversation goes.

31:59>> [cough]

31:59[clears throat]

32:00>> Thanks for having us. It's really as

32:02Mike says, it's just a um

32:04to be treated with this respect to come

32:06into this chamber and have so many

32:08meetings over the last few years really.

32:10Uh

32:12it's not something that in in in the

32:14dance world especially, we are not

32:16trained to do this. I'm trained to make

32:17some dances and I make some damn good

32:19ones. I work with community and um and

32:22so this is a big community exercise and

32:24we're all going to dance by the end of

32:25this meeting just to let you know.

32:27Um uh

32:29I wait I wait for that day. I do.

32:31Um uh some of the things that come up

32:33for me in the

32:35as we own our own building and we've

32:37been concerned about it since I got

32:39there day one.

32:41In the beginning

32:43this is no shade on my predecessors. It

32:46just we were making something out of

32:48nothing taking that empty building and

32:50making it into a dance center which I

32:52want to

32:54say I know we all love the dance complex

32:56but I don't know how much you realize

32:58that this is the center of people's

33:00ancestries. I mean there's nowhere else

33:02like it in Massachusetts. I was just at

33:04a conference in Austin, Texas meeting

33:07other community engagement artists.

33:10200 of them and the fact that we have

33:12this in Cambridge is really important.

33:15So when I say that we need special

33:18attention it's not because it's either

33:19or with theater or anything like that

33:21else. If we were if we weren't there

33:24you know

33:25ancient hula, seven kinds of African

33:27dance,

33:28Middle Eastern dance, everything would

33:29just kind of have to go find its way

33:31back into basements and and home studios

33:34that's the kind of thing. So so it is

33:36about the culture of of who we are. In

33:39some of the meetings we've had I've been

33:42aware of especially because I've been

33:44around

33:45for a few decades

33:47that

33:48that it's the longevity of how long

33:50these things last you know so we can

33:51make these policies and make them

33:54in favor of the arts and and build

33:56another floor across the street and it

33:58benefits us. But it's how the interwoven

34:01interlocked

34:03policies and legislation and the the

34:05city council happen it's how we look at

34:07the state and the conversations there.

34:09So so this is really good work but it's

34:12it's an ecology right? So I just I've

34:14been

34:16involved with several projects that are

34:18really good at the beginning and then

34:20and then four, six, 12 years later it's

34:23back to the same thing and that

34:25era of artists is still dealing with um

34:27with that.

34:29Um

34:30one thing that comes to mind and I think

34:32it's Mike when you came on to create the

34:35bid from the business

34:37what was it called

34:38association

34:41it was the the re-evaluating of the arts

34:43as an integral process to be here. So I

34:45think it for me it's about branding.

34:47It's like yes, we can say this but in in

34:51light of what the

34:52gentleman said about

34:54becoming kind of Disneyfied in Central

34:55Square. It feels to me that we're

34:58we have the ability to not go through

35:01the negative door but through the

35:02positive door and what you know the bid

35:04is it created for us in the sense that

35:06we live up to this and it's a true

35:08authentic value how the city can help us

35:12push that up as well. So we're not

35:14fighting against something. We're we're

35:16planting something that will continue to

35:18grow with that.

35:20And last thing I'll just offer is we've

35:21we've enjoyed such a wonderful

35:22relationship with Cambridge

35:23Redevelopment Authority over the last

35:25well 10 years and but it's specifically

35:28in the last few years as an owner of the

35:31building

35:33I I don't know what where we would be at

35:34this point. It was impossible for us to

35:36get mortgages refinanced without their

35:38help

35:40to get a loan

35:42so that we can at least start some of

35:44the

35:44work on the front facade our Botox for

35:47bricks as we like to call it the

35:49repointing

35:50and so so that if there weren't a CRA

35:54right now and this is again no shade to

35:56anybody in the circle. I don't know what

35:57we would have done. And so I'm very very

36:00grateful to you and your staff Tom and

36:03we just look forward to more ways

36:05artists are willing partners to all that

36:07you're doing and I think sometimes well

36:09some artists are

36:11fold their arms and say you know what

36:12are you going to do for me?

36:13That's not the case with anybody at this

36:15table I don't think

36:16and also it's it's not the case with

36:19people like myself and hundreds of

36:21people at the dance complex who want to

36:23preserve and be a living dynamic archive

36:26of today and tomorrow as we go on.

36:31>> Thank you. Other folks uh would like to

36:33speak and anybody on the Zoom?

36:35>> No, I trust them.

36:38>> Oh, oh, sorry. Go ahead.

36:39>> I'm I'm good. Um

36:41thanks, Peter and Michael. Thanks to

36:43everyone here. Appreciate your uh

36:46thoughts and your careful thinking on

36:48where we are today. Certainly, um

36:51what cultural institutions could be in

36:53the square to make up for what we lost

36:55and greater and then also what exists.

36:58Um

37:00I'm in large agreement with everything

37:02Peter said and and also how Michael

37:04feels about things. So, I think I'll

37:06talk about collaboration. Um

37:08so

37:09So, Central Square Theater is a big

37:11collaborator. I mean, we've collaborated

37:12with everyone here here. We were just

37:15here in the summer uh

37:17doing wrote no recommendation without

37:20um

37:21representation, which was great uh

37:232-week program with MIT and the city.

37:27Uh we've worked with Peter a lot both

37:29for both with Jason and um

37:32and the RiverFest and other projects.

37:34So, and we've worked with a lot of other

37:36organizations, too. So, a big part of

37:38what we do and what I think is integral

37:41to a cultural district is the working

37:43together, right? Collaborating, finding

37:45strength in your neighbors,

37:48um increasing your audiences, being able

37:50to treat your artists better, more pay,

37:53etc. Um So, I'll

37:56I'll mention that and more space

37:59in the square for cultural um

38:02organizations is uh very positive for us

38:05cuz it's more friends to collaborate

38:07with.

38:08Uh I I think the

38:12Mm I think the issue with development

38:14and actually up-zoning Does up-zoning

38:16mean just building higher or any new

38:18building?

38:20That's a question I have. Up-zoning is

38:22that I don't

38:23Is that building

38:25higher or any new

38:29Anyone?

38:30>> Yes, so

38:30>> [laughter]

38:31>> yeah, so

38:33it refers to kind of increasing the

38:34zoning capacity, but it so new

38:37development.

38:38>> New development.

38:39>> And all that. Um

38:41I mean new development brings in the

38:43opportunity for new money, so certainly

38:45payment in lieu and things like that are

38:48would be really useful to us. You know,

38:50we've now we're on our 18th year here

38:53shockingly.

38:54And we have all kinds of capital needs

38:56that that frankly no one's really

38:59funding or they're funding at such small

39:01not no one CRA not no one

39:03but they're funding maybe not enough

39:05compared to what we need. We probably

39:06need to put in

39:08a hundred thousand dollars a year for

39:09the next I don't know however many years

39:13and we're a new building.

39:14Relatively new, right? I guess we're not

39:16new anymore.

39:17>> [laughter]

39:18>> Um new kid on the block. Uh so so that's

39:21really important, but I also understand

39:23the concerns about um

39:26more development and how do you retain

39:28the culture of the square?

39:31Um

39:33Uh that's a conflict that exists and I I

39:37no idea how to solve that, but I

39:38understand it. Um

39:40>> [snorts]

39:43>> I want to say a little bit about just

39:45theater in general. So cuz we've done

39:48I just went to a big conference where

39:49they talked about theater in

39:51in the United States.

39:53Um

39:54Budgets for theaters are down inflation

39:56adjustments. Uh audience audiences are

40:00down. We're still in recovery mode from

40:02COVID believe it or not.

40:04Um

40:05There are fewer performances and smaller

40:08crowds. This is sort of an average

40:10across the nation.

40:11Um

40:12Audiences are down almost 57% across the

40:15nation.

40:17Which is shocking. That is not where we

40:19are today, thank goodness.

40:22Um we're actually in a decent place, I'd

40:24say. We're holding steady. Um but what

40:27it says is maybe the wave hasn't fully

40:29crashed on us yet. And the next few

40:32years due to

40:33government fund lack lack of government

40:35funding and and other and the trickle

40:37down of all that um

40:39>> [snorts]

40:39>> will continue to affect us.

40:42So those are that's sort of the world of

40:44theater and I know the restaurant

40:45business is also uh struggling from our

40:48friends that we collaborate with as

40:50well. So this is a great time to be

40:52having this conversation.

40:53Cuz it's not going to get easier.

40:57So thank you for

40:59participating and moving this forward.

41:04>> I just want to add a small thing. I

41:06blind side to my left and to thank

41:08Cambridge Arts

41:09Council, Jason from the get-go helping

41:12us through as well. I didn't see you

41:13sitting there. So

41:17>> I would add just one piece um about that

41:18question of definition of upzoning to

41:20the thing CDD said and feel free to

41:22correct me, but I think uh part of it,

41:23right? You can could redevelop right now

41:26and we've seen some of that in Central

41:27Square. The Middle East, I think a few

41:29years ago had a proposal for a

41:30redevelopment that um ended up not going

41:33ahead, but there's a certain amount you

41:34can redevelop and upzoning uh would

41:36allow you to go taller. That creates

41:38more value if you can go taller and one

41:40of the conversations we're having is if

41:42the city is letting folks build taller

41:45and create more value, what do Cambridge

41:47residents and local institutions get in

41:49return? What can we demand if you're

41:51going to go two stories taller, three

41:52stories taller? How can we demand the

41:54value for residents and for cultural

41:56institutions in return?

41:58Also.

41:59>> Yes, thank you Jeevan for saying that.

42:01Uh 100% agree. I think um

42:06you know, we tend to say rezoning

42:08because um

42:10the

42:12I don't want to sight the fact that

42:13development Michael's absolutely right.

42:16It puts

42:18people at risk of displacement whether

42:20that's we're talking about housing or

42:22businesses and that's a concern.

42:25Um

42:26but talking about zoning doesn't

42:28automatically assume one thing or the

42:30other.

42:32We're at that we're risk of displacement

42:34today under current zoning and so what

42:37we want to talk about is how can we use

42:40zoning to make sure

42:42we're leveraging additional development

42:45rights to get the things that we want

42:47and so I think often there's this

42:49connotation that oh you do nothing we're

42:51safe. It

42:52we're not and so I think it's important

42:54to always put forward what are our

42:55values and really appreciate the

42:57conversation and the people in this

42:58room.

43:00The other point I will say is

43:02you know, we're talking about zoning

43:04that's the the project. There are so

43:06many tools

43:07at not you know, the city has

43:10multiple [clears throat] tools but it's

43:12not just the city who can help and nor

43:14nor should we it's the CRA. It's the you

43:17know, it it depends on it's the

43:19operators like that's what's critical is

43:21so it's the ecosystem that we need to

43:24work and thrive on and it's not just one

43:26thing. We're talking about one thing

43:28here but I just want to recognize that

43:30like there's certainly is a full

43:33ecosystem of work and partnerships that

43:36that feed and what makes Central Square

43:38so special and we want to continue to

43:39build on that.

43:41>> Okay. We have Vice Mayor Azeem with his

43:44hand up. I also want to recognize that

43:46we have one of a couple I'm going to go

43:48to Councillor McGovern and Councillor Oh

43:49Councillor Zisky do you have your hand

43:50up? Okay Councillor Zisky first I think

43:52you had your hand up a while ago.

43:52Councillor Zisky Councillor McGovern. I

43:54also do want to recognize we have one of

43:55our other cultural institutions on Zoom.

43:57We have Dennis Benzan

43:59from the La Fabrica. Dennis do you want

44:01to introduce yourself briefly?

44:07Let's see.

44:11May have to go back to Mr. Benzan.

44:15Um we'll go to Vice Mayor. Sorry.

44:17>> I'm back here. Sorry. Well, that

44:19>> No worries.

44:20>> All right.

44:21Um yeah, good afternoon everyone. I just

44:23wanted to thank you guys for um for

44:25putting this uh hearing together and I

44:27know that many you guys around the

44:29table, particularly Michael and

44:32my partner and uh you know, friend Kathy

44:35with the Central Square Theater and you

44:37know, really everybody in the square,

44:39the dance complexes that's doing a lot

44:41of incredibly hard work nowadays.

44:44Um you know, operating a business in

44:46Central Square aside from the issues

44:47that we're talking about right now is

44:49becoming more and more difficult every

44:51day and

44:52you know, I remember um when I was

44:54chairing the zoning committee on the

44:55City Council back in 2013 and we were

44:58talking about um Mass and Main.

45:01Um all of the issues that have been

45:03brought up today were discussed back

45:05then and they were discussed 10 years

45:06prior to that in the report that, you

45:08know, Ken Reeves provided um you know,

45:11with the help of a lot of the other city

45:12departments and you know, these

45:14challenges are real, right? But I think

45:16that if we're going to create some kind

45:18of a change for the better in Central

45:20Square, we've got to be willing to make

45:22bold decisions.

45:24And when we decided to build Mass and

45:25Main, it was an incredibly bold decision

45:28and some of us paid a heavy price

45:29politically for it, right? But if you

45:31look back over the last, you know, let's

45:34say 2013, we're now in 2026,

45:37nothing else has been built in Central

45:38Square that helps sustain the businesses

45:40or the housing demand in that area.

45:43And so, you know, we um

45:46we've got to be willing to make hard

45:48decisions that are going to benefit the

45:49cultural district, that are going to

45:51allow those of us that are operators to

45:54either grow or be able to sustain

45:56ourselves because there are people in

45:57the square living in the square that can

45:58help sustain our our businesses and go

46:00to the theater and go to the restaurants

46:03and you know, all these places that are

46:04popping up

46:06that that are important to what we call

46:08the cultural district. So, you know, I

46:10just want to thank, you know, again all

46:12of you guys for for all the hard work

46:14that you're doing and I and I hope that,

46:16you know, the council

46:18is prepared to make some bold decisions

46:20and that we're prepared to hold them

46:22their feet to the fire as well as the

46:24landlords and the developers that are

46:25going to be

46:26hopefully

46:28uh uh

46:28working in the square in the near

46:30future. Thank you.

46:32>> Thank you. We'll go to Vice Mayor Ziem

46:33and then Councilor Zuzie.

46:35Vice Mayor Ziem.

46:37>> Um thank you. I just wanted to make one

46:40small comment which is that um

46:42you know, uh

46:44to Melissa, just as uh you know, there's

46:47a lot of new people here and there's

46:49been a lot of talk about like the

46:50neighborhood zoning. This is like

46:53fundamentally different, right? In that

46:55everything for the most part will

46:56require a special permit uh that gets

46:59developed uh under any changes in

47:01Central Square zoning. Is that correct?

47:05>> Yes, so currently the limit is 75,000

47:08square feet that would get a special

47:10permit and that um

47:13you know, as previously discussed with

47:14our zoning petition would would not

47:16change and most development at at the

47:18scale would fall under that. So, yes,

47:20you're correct.

47:21>> So, that that was the only thing I

47:23wanted to bring up which is that I think

47:25that, you know, anything that comes out

47:27of this process will likely require a

47:29special permit especially because all

47:31the smaller projects that don't require

47:33it already allowed now. And what's nice

47:35about a special permit especially in

47:36like a very sensitive context like

47:38Central Square is that the city can just

47:40say no. And so, the planning board can

47:42just say no to a project that they feel

47:44like is not meeting the needs of the

47:46community. Um and so, it's different

47:48than the by right process that we have

47:51in um

47:52you know, small scale development. So,

47:53so just wanted to add that as a little

47:55bit of context. Thank you.

48:01>> We're going to counselor Zuse, and then

48:04counselor Govern, and then counselor

48:05Al-Zubi. Counselor Zuse.

48:07>> Yeah, thank you um Chair Sabrina

48:09Wheeler. So, I I wanted to ask this is

48:11for city staff and um maybe

48:16um

48:17So, communities

48:19that are that I know well that have

48:21really vibrant arts and thinking I'm

48:23from Maryland, Silver Spring, Maryland

48:25where my sister live lives. That's a

48:27little bit

48:29It's not a complete comparable,

48:31but it you know, it's a big city now. It

48:33wasn't a big city when I was growing up

48:35in Kensington, Maryland. But, it's a

48:37thriving cultural center, and I was just

48:39looking at you know, what made it there.

48:41It made it a thriving cultural center,

48:43and apparently it was cuz of strategic

48:45public-private partnerships.

48:48They focused on historic preservation,

48:50and then they had a lot of state-backed

48:53arts. And they planned really well. They

48:55used tax incentives

48:57to rebuild the core, and then again

49:00public-private partnerships, and then

49:02they had anchor

49:03cultural institutions. And then I'm just

49:06thinking my sister lives in um

49:08Beacon, New York, which has Dia Art

49:10Center, which is another very very

49:12bright uh vibrant arts community. It's

49:15on a different scale, so it's not really

49:16a comparable. And then I'm thinking of

49:18Hudson, New York, which again is sort of

49:20the same size as Beacon on the Hudson

49:22River. And you know, there there's a

49:24whole ecosystem along the Hudson River

49:27of arts

49:28organizations that all like support one

49:30another. But, I'm wondering when you're

49:33thinking about um

49:36uh

49:37really supporting the arts more

49:40substantially at Central Scare Square, I

49:43guess Claudia I don't know or Director

49:45Zarazua I don't know if this is really

49:47for you cuz I know you're like a zoning

49:49person and you're focused on the arts.

49:51But,

49:52so are you thinking

49:54that it's tax incentives? I know there

49:56are many different options that you've

49:58shared, but are you thinking that's what

50:00might do it? And I wanted to go back to

50:03um Reina's really good question, which

50:06is what about operational costs? And are

50:09when you've seen other models of cities

50:12of our size, like really infusing the

50:14arts, are they also not just infusing,

50:17like creating buildings, supporting the

50:19creation of spaces, but how are they um

50:23making sure that they're well-funded so

50:25that they can operate and continue and

50:27thrive?

50:28>> That's Thank you. Through you, Chair. Um

50:32I just want to introduce uh Christina

50:34Turner from the Community Foundation,

50:36who has been a partner in some of the

50:37work that you are asking and that I will

50:40share briefly. Um in terms of operators,

50:43the your concern, Mike, is very valid

50:45and it's something that we've been

50:46trying to work on and how to build um

50:49support and capacity to cultural

50:50operators, because like Peter said,

50:52owning your building does not guarantee

50:54stability. It requires a certain

50:57technical um skill set and connections

51:00and navigating the real estate

51:01development uh landscape, which is, you

51:04know, not easy to do.

51:06Um so, part of that, we've been working

51:08with the Community Foundation to follow

51:10to develop a pilot program for um

51:13cultural operators called Cultural Space

51:15Readiness Pilot that would bring in um

51:18operators to support them with their

51:22access to space needs and that may be

51:24different depending on where you are in

51:26your journey for space. So, that would

51:28provide you with assistance

51:30if you are looking to work with an

51:32architect and to understand that, how

51:34would you work with an architect if

51:35you've never done that before. If you're

51:37looking to uh review a lease, you've

51:39never signed a lease, if you're an

51:41artist or an organization that has never

51:42done that, that would be um you would be

51:45supported through that with the arts

51:47Arts and Business

51:49Council

51:50um and their network of consultants. Um

51:55that will launch soon. Uh we're you know

51:57just

51:58waiting on funding confirmation for

52:00that, but that is one way we see how we

52:04can continue to support Central Square

52:05and organizations beyond Central Square,

52:08but it is a very

52:10valid concern that we see um day-to-day.

52:13You know, you as an a cultural

52:14nonprofit, you either know how to run a

52:17cultural nonprofit and its program

52:19really well or you manage a building. It

52:21doesn't necessarily come as uh

52:24naturally to do both. Um

52:27uh case studies, the BCA, the Boston

52:29Center for the Arts in Boston has a

52:32co-directorship model because of that.

52:35They have a co-director that manages the

52:37facilities and only the facilities and

52:40all that it it entails, and then another

52:42director that manages their programming.

52:44So, they recognize that there's a very

52:47different set of skills needed and the

52:49one person cannot do both.

52:51Um to your first question about how we

52:55are supporting Central Square beyond

52:57zoning, right now the focus is on the

53:00zoning and the risk of displacement of

53:02existing location organizations or

53:06creating new space. Through the survey

53:08we found that and how what is our

53:12response rate?

53:14I know it's

53:15substantial.

53:17>> Uh through your chair, it's uh over 600

53:18at the moment.

53:19>> Um we do have a question specifically

53:21about the demands for space. What What

53:24would the general public, the an artist,

53:27a creative would like to see in terms of

53:29space. And we see in their response that

53:32there's a mix of a need for small

53:34production spaces like an artist studio,

53:38a recording studio, and a small to

53:41medium presentation spaces, like a

53:43gallery, um dance studio, and other

53:46stuff, like medium-size, not, you know,

53:49something significant like the platform.

53:52So, having an understanding of the

53:54demand and the landscape right now, uh

53:56that would give us a better opportunity

53:58to craft more um specific types of

54:01support. Um I know there one of the

54:05public comments mentioned, you know, the

54:07the concern about oversight for this

54:10potential fund. Um we would obviously

54:13bring it and we've been in convers- and

54:14Peter has we discussed this, what is

54:18oversight uh when it comes to creating a

54:20new a new fund. So, we would certainly

54:22embed that into the writing of how we

54:25create a an oversight body committee

54:28that is represented by the local

54:29community, arts and residents alike, um

54:33to guide us on the implementation of

54:35that fund.

54:38>> That that sounds very important. And I'm

54:40thinking of uh

54:43Ken- the

54:45the Kennedy Center in Washington D.C.,

54:47which uh where the oversight body was

54:49crucial to its um successful man-

54:53>> We'll go to Councillor McGovern and then

54:55Councillor Azeez, Councillor McGovern.

54:58>> Thank you, Mr. Chair, through you. Uh

55:00thank you to everybody uh

55:03here and to all the

55:05providers. I'm sort of looking around

55:06the table and I'm thinking,

55:08you know, my kids took ballet lessons at

55:10the Dance Complex. I've been to a

55:13million shows at Central Square Theater.

55:15And God knows I spent one too many

55:17nights at the Cantab and the Phoenix.

55:19So, um I really uh appreciate all of you

55:23and the role you've played uh in my life

55:25and my family's life.

55:27Um

55:28just a couple thoughts. Uh

55:32you know, I I I really

55:35really want to think hard about

55:37um

55:39how we do help preserve

55:43the places that are already here,

55:44especially when as we talk about

55:46rezoning and upzoning and redevelopment,

55:48we know it you know, it it's very hard

55:51to keep a a place open when you when

55:53you've got

55:54you know, pile driving and you know,

55:57things going and you know, and in and so

55:59so we the the risk of those places are

56:03are real.

56:04Um but I think it's also important as we

56:06talk about this and we we talk about

56:08this with the community that we do have

56:10to have some conversation about the

56:12financial realities of what we're

56:14talking about and not just the financial

56:17realities of if we lost these businesses

56:20and

56:21the the financial benefit they bring to

56:23the city, but in terms of the

56:26in terms of the rezoning, I think a lot

56:28of times we say

56:31well, we don't want to give a developer

56:33too much height because we don't want

56:35tall buildings, but here are the 15

56:37things we demand developers do in order

56:40to build their building

56:42and

56:43the reality is if that doesn't pencil

56:45out financially, that building never

56:46gets built and we never realize the the

56:49benefits that we would then get from

56:50that trade-off, right? Right now, you

56:52can build up the five stories on Mass

56:54Ave in Central Square and nobody's doing

56:56it. Right? Um and that's because it

56:59doesn't pencil.

57:00And so

57:02I think as we're thinking about this

57:05you know, if we're going to say we want

57:08the developer to

57:10bring these businesses back if they're

57:11displaced and pay for them to return and

57:14supple you know, supplement their rent

57:16to at a at you know,

57:18maybe not what it was before, but

57:20certainly not what they would probably

57:22be looking for. All of those things at

57:25cost. And if we don't offset that

57:29somehow

57:31it's not going to happen.

57:32And so, as we talk about the zoning,

57:35it's it's important that we we balance

57:37that, and I don't think we do a great

57:39job as the

57:40as a collective in explaining how the

57:43financing of development works. And so,

57:46people just say, "Hey, I want a

57:48seven-story building, but

57:50here are 27,

57:52you know, requirements that I put on,

57:54all great, right? And all sound good

57:57individually, but collectively means

57:59nothing gets done because no developer's

58:00going to be able to afford to do it. So,

58:02I think we have to

58:03as we think about the zoning and and

58:05and, you know, really try to educate

58:07ourselves and the public about what are

58:09the the real financial implications of

58:11all this.

58:12Um

58:15I I also think, you know, I think it's

58:17important when we think about the arts

58:18and culture that one of the things I

58:20love about the square is um

58:23just the variety that that that we have,

58:25right? And so, we don't want to be

58:28just restaurants, right? We want the

58:30dance complex, we want the theater, we

58:32want, you know, these other places. But,

58:34I also want Cambridge and Central Square

58:36in particular to

58:38be an even more exciting place than than

58:41than it is today, right? And that's

58:42where the restaurants come in, and I

58:44think about what we did around the World

58:45Cup. I think about what Mike and and the

58:47BID does around, you know, their the the

58:50different um you know, one-off, you

58:52know, festivals and things that they do,

58:54and how do we

58:56do more of that and encourage more of

58:57that? You know, we should be closing

58:59down Sidney Street every Saturday night

59:02through the summer, you know, and doing

59:05exciting things to draw people in

59:07because those people will they'll go to

59:08restaurants, they'll spend money,

59:10they'll, you know, they'll they'll get

59:11into they'll say, "Wow, there's a dance

59:12complex. I didn't know about that."

59:14Maybe, you know, so, bringing more

59:16people in

59:18is incredibly important to sustaining

59:20all the things that we say we want to

59:21sustain, whether they're coming in to

59:23visit or whether they're we're building

59:25more housing so they actually live here.

59:27And when you think of

59:29the

59:30the jobs that have been lost in Kendall

59:32Square, right? Now, a lot of those

59:34people didn't live in Cambridge, right?

59:35So, they but they would come in to work

59:37and then they'd go out after work,

59:38right? And they they go to a show, they

59:40go get something to eat, they go to a

59:42bar.

59:43Those jobs are all getting cut, that's

59:45less people coming into the city,

59:47less revenue for all for all the arts

59:49and and cultural institutions in the

59:51square. So, these are just additional

59:53challenges. So, I I am I do have to take

59:56my leave. I I apologize for that, but um

59:59you know, I do want to express my

1:00:00appreciation

1:00:02and you know, certainly my commitment to

1:00:05um

1:00:06you know, making sure that we we

1:00:07maintain Central as a a really strong

1:00:10cultural district in a variety of ways.

1:00:12Um

1:00:13one thing we didn't talk about in this,

1:00:15we've got these two parallel processes

1:00:17going on. We've got the Central Square

1:00:19rezoning and then we also have the city

1:00:21lot studies go go go going on. So, think

1:00:23and we didn't really touch on that. So,

1:00:25thinking about property that we already

1:00:27own

1:00:28and how can we leverage that um to

1:00:33if it's going to be developed, if we're

1:00:34going to partner with a developer, we

1:00:36own that land, that's a huge

1:00:40price or a huge value, I should say, to

1:00:42a developer. So, if we're going to turn

1:00:44over some of that land to a developer,

1:00:47we should really be squeezing them for

1:00:49as much as we possibly can around these

1:00:51around these benefits

1:00:53um because we're giving them a great

1:00:55asset in in terms of the property. So,

1:00:57thinking about the lot study and how

1:00:58that fits into all this and how we can

1:01:00leverage up the property we already own

1:01:03to ensure that we're maintaining the

1:01:04cultural district. So, with that, Mr.

1:01:06Chair, I'm going to have to take off,

1:01:08but I thank you for

1:01:09um your work on this and and having this

1:01:11uh

1:01:12having this committee hearing. Thank

1:01:14you.

1:01:14>> Thanks for being here. Uh we're going to

1:01:15go to Councillor Al-Zubaydi next.

1:01:17Councillor Al-Zubaydi.

1:01:23>> Thank you.

1:01:24>> First select

1:01:25>> Take my chair.

1:01:26>> Oh, perfect. Okay. Thank you.

1:01:30I'm not tall. Um anyways, uh thank you

1:01:32for your chair. I definitely really

1:01:34appreciate the presentation, the start

1:01:36to the conversation on this. I know I

1:01:38have had a lot of catching up to do

1:01:40since the multiple studies that you guys

1:01:41have even referenced in this

1:01:43presentation.

1:01:44Um I was able to go through a bit. I

1:01:46want to raise some points that I was

1:01:47just thinking through as I looked at you

1:01:50know, look back at the K2C2 report, uh

1:01:52the city lot study, and this

1:01:55presentation. I just want to share some

1:01:57thoughts that I had. Um so, at the

1:01:59beginning, I noticed the slide shared

1:02:01that, you know, zoning specifically

1:02:02can't preserve specific businesses or

1:02:04spaces, and it can only deliver benefits

1:02:08through new development. Um what I take

1:02:10away from that is every cultural tool in

1:02:14the proposal will have to depend on a

1:02:16private developer choosing to use it. Um

1:02:19and it's predicated on the

1:02:22again on the idea that it's asking a

1:02:23private developer to choose to build or

1:02:26protect cultural space in exchange for

1:02:29more height or density. Um I noticed

1:02:32also in the presentation, you referenced

1:02:34a loss of over 30,000

1:02:38uh square footage of cultural space um

1:02:41under the existing rules. So,

1:02:44I'm going to have reservations um

1:02:46of doing a voluntary bonus or incentives

1:02:49that is run through the market, and you

1:02:51know, whether or not that's actually

1:02:53going to reverse some of what we're

1:02:54seeing.

1:02:55Um so, what I take that as it's

1:02:57potentially likely uh that we can

1:03:00preserve stuff, but it can't guarantee

1:03:01it, and that's some of my worry. I would

1:03:04love to see more creative approaches for

1:03:06those guarantees. Um at the end of the

1:03:09day, I like to think of it as

1:03:11the person who owns the space will

1:03:13dictate the outcomes, and that includes

1:03:15who operates the space. Um and would

1:03:18love to just see more uh on that in the

1:03:20future if that's possible. I was

1:03:23thinking of some things like deed

1:03:25restrictions on the building, not

1:03:27necessarily relying on fixed terms,

1:03:29restricted rents. If there's any way we

1:03:32can engage with the law department on

1:03:33that.

1:03:34Um

1:03:35I would also love to see more specifics

1:03:38on like who's owning, what rents they're

1:03:40paying, kind of similar to that point

1:03:41that I just brought up. The K2C2 report

1:03:44noted that landlords favor the highest

1:03:46bidders and most creditworthy tenants.

1:03:50So there's a worry there about new

1:03:52cultural space going to a bigger

1:03:55developer or a chain rather than the

1:03:57community's own institutions like the

1:03:59Dance Complex for example. So

1:04:03I'm now learning more and more by the

1:04:05day in doing this work that incentives

1:04:07will define the space because we live in

1:04:09a world where people need incentives to

1:04:11do the right thing.

1:04:13Um so it's really important that we

1:04:14engage on that.

1:04:16Another thing that came up on these

1:04:18slides is that we don't we have a lack

1:04:20of a consistent definition of like what

1:04:23is the cultural district or what

1:04:26actually defines the arts. And I get

1:04:28that because one of the beauties of the

1:04:30arts world is that you can define it in

1:04:32so many different ways. But in a setting

1:04:34like this it makes it a little bit more

1:04:36difficult.

1:04:37I I really hope that part of the work in

1:04:39how CDD develops that definition is

1:04:42centering the folks who are at this

1:04:44table and on the zoom and the ones that

1:04:47we've lost too like EMF and how we

1:04:50define that. And we kind of already

1:04:52heard some of what that definition look

1:04:54like looks like from from you all. Um

1:04:58another thing that I've also kind of

1:04:59been learning from the multi-family

1:05:01zoning too is in the long term up-zoning

1:05:03is going to raise the value of the land.

1:05:05Um and that's going to give reasons for

1:05:08landlords to sell. And carrying that

1:05:10mindfulness will really matter like my

1:05:12goal brought up earlier for the

1:05:14institutions that are already there

1:05:16especially the ones that are on that

1:05:17like one story level.

1:05:19Um so if there's ways we can explore

1:05:21protections on the demolition processes,

1:05:24the displacement of existing tenants or

1:05:26existing cultural institutions,

1:05:28um would love to see like rights of

1:05:30returns. Uh we're again we're seeing

1:05:32some of this with multi-family and I

1:05:33don't want us to miss that here. Uh

1:05:36another thing that came up for me was uh

1:05:39again like this larger goal of

1:05:40affordability in the city. Um

1:05:43you know, the height being tied to

1:05:44cultural benefits doesn't necessarily

1:05:46declare the actual affordability of

1:05:48those units. So that's just another

1:05:50thing I'm sitting with and would love to

1:05:51see more on. Um I don't want us to get

1:05:54to a place where we end up upzoning

1:05:56Central Square and then it ends up being

1:05:57very expensive and continuing to price

1:05:59out the very same people we're actually

1:06:01trying to make it more accessible to.

1:06:03That would really suck. Um

1:06:06and and then another thing

1:06:09that I wish I got to see a little more

1:06:10on cuz you guys referenced it in the

1:06:12presentation was what I think is our

1:06:14strongest mechanism which is the city

1:06:16lot study. We own 10 sites. Um we have

1:06:21seen the estimations on that study to

1:06:22build an estimated 250 units at least.

1:06:27Um plus over 30,000 square footage of

1:06:30flexible cultural performance space.

1:06:32Like that's incredible to to see. Um

1:06:35we're owning these parcels. We can set

1:06:37the affordability. We can use the terms

1:06:39directly. We get to work with who we

1:06:41develop with. We get to work and decide

1:06:43who the operators are instead of like

1:06:45you know, playing more with this larger

1:06:47risk of a private deal penciling out

1:06:49especially in the market that we're in.

1:06:51And we know markets go up and down

1:06:52depending on what state um

1:06:54of the world that we're in. So those are

1:06:56just some of the thoughts I'm thinking

1:06:57of. I'm thinking of some of the artists

1:06:59I've talked to who you know, either used

1:07:02to live in Cambridge and now live

1:07:03elsewhere who are commuting out into

1:07:04Dorchester and uh in Roxbury because

1:07:08they can't afford music city studios

1:07:10around the area.

1:07:12And I'm I'm worried about like if we up

1:07:14zone and want to protect cultural

1:07:15institutions, but the cultural

1:07:17institutions that come into play and

1:07:19that being a lot harder to access

1:07:21because they're part of quote unquote

1:07:23newer developments, then we're not

1:07:25really like speaking to the needs of the

1:07:27community members and that's what I also

1:07:29worry about. I have questions, but I

1:07:32just shared a lot.

1:07:34I really appreciate the bids work. I

1:07:36appreciate these institutions. I've done

1:07:39my own Middle Eastern dancing at the

1:07:41Dance Complex.

1:07:42I really appreciate the work that you

1:07:44guys do and and definitely want to

1:07:45continue to be mindful of you guys'

1:07:47presence in our community. I'll yield.

1:07:51>> I had a couple comments and I also

1:07:54want to hear more from the cultural

1:07:55institutions and see if staff want to

1:07:57respond to anything. We've got another

1:07:5945 minutes or so that we can take.

1:08:01I want to add a couple additional

1:08:03questions for the cultural institutions

1:08:05to to think about to the ones that are

1:08:07on slide 22. I think a thing I want to

1:08:09would love to hear from folks. Have

1:08:11there been times you've been uncertain

1:08:13about your venue's future and what was

1:08:15the cause of that? What do you feel

1:08:17uncertain about now? What keeps you up

1:08:18at night? And then what would it make it

1:08:22more likely that your venue could stay

1:08:23in Central Square for another 15 or 20

1:08:2630 years? That can be a specific

1:08:28planning tool, but doesn't have to be.

1:08:30Maybe that that answer there is, you

1:08:31know, I want to retire and I don't know

1:08:32who's going to do it after I do, right?

1:08:34Just really interested to hear those

1:08:36that kind of detail from folks.

1:08:38And then the the comments I had, I think

1:08:40the point that Michael Monestime raised

1:08:41about own versus rent is a really

1:08:44critical one and you know, we'll have

1:08:46specific challenges. I think for for

1:08:48rent, you know, if you have a lease,

1:08:49you're on a specific timeline as a

1:08:51business or community institution.

1:08:53The Phoenix Landing raising that point

1:08:55of, you know,

1:08:56have a two-year lease and and what

1:08:57happens after that is is really

1:08:59important whether or not we change

1:09:01anything about Central Square at the

1:09:03city council or the city that lease is

1:09:05going to be up in 2 years and whether or

1:09:06not we do anything we should really try

1:09:08to make sure that there is a a place

1:09:10here and use all of the city's tools to

1:09:12do that and so I think that is a piece

1:09:13we need to follow up offline off with

1:09:16community institutions as well and then

1:09:18on the ownership side it's you know not

1:09:20that there aren't challenges but maybe

1:09:21you're a little more in control of your

1:09:23destiny and then figuring out how you're

1:09:25preserving it and the tools I think that

1:09:27the Cambridge Redevelopment Authority

1:09:29call out was helpful and great to hear

1:09:30about the partnership with CCF coming

1:09:33that is a thing we need to be thinking

1:09:34about as well. And then I just wanted to

1:09:36raise a point that someone else made I

1:09:37think it was maybe someone in public

1:09:38comment that space needs are a big

1:09:40challenge and you know discussion around

1:09:42planning and zoning are a good time to

1:09:43talk about them cuz zoning is all about

1:09:46land use and planning is about

1:09:48space and so talking about how we can

1:09:50use that on the space needs is important

1:09:52but they aren't the only challenge right

1:09:53there are lots of challenges facing

1:09:55facing local businesses some of them are

1:09:57out of our control in terms of the

1:09:59economic environment and tariffs and

1:10:01interest rates and just trends of

1:10:03business but there there are things we

1:10:06we can do and the economic development

1:10:07department has a lot of tools around

1:10:09that I've seen around succession

1:10:11planning of if you're a local business

1:10:13owner or community institution thinking

1:10:14about what do I do next how do I

1:10:16transition it I have been to some really

1:10:18good events the city has done around

1:10:20employee ownership and thinking about

1:10:22you know how do you transition your

1:10:23business to your employees and they buy

1:10:25it and that's a win-win because the

1:10:26institution stays there it means people

1:10:28keep a job and it means they have more

1:10:30power over their workplace

1:10:32community space activation is in our

1:10:34control some of it wasn't I think about

1:10:37this summer just all of the beautiful

1:10:38things we were able to do with the World

1:10:39Cup in terms of that brought people into

1:10:42Central Square and other parts of the

1:10:43community and we're able to buy drinks

1:10:45from local businesses and then take

1:10:47those outside and the world didn't fall

1:10:48apart and can we keep things like that

1:10:50going having last call be a little bit

1:10:52later these are things that we need the

1:10:54state government to work on but that we

1:10:55can be advocating for and working for

1:10:57it. If that makes it easier for your

1:10:58local community institutions to to stay

1:11:00here and makes our communities more

1:11:02vibrant, those are things we should be

1:11:03pushing on as well. And those aren't

1:11:04directly space and zoning things. Um, I

1:11:08know there's some really exciting stuff

1:11:09coming around food vendors. Like that is

1:11:11a piece we can think of uh with our

1:11:12local businesses, too.

1:11:14Um, all of those parts, we just want to

1:11:16hear from folks as well and be thinking,

1:11:17you know, today we're we're talking

1:11:18about space and planning and zoning. It

1:11:20isn't the only thing and we need to to

1:11:21keep thinking of those conversations as

1:11:23well. So, this is just um some pieces I

1:11:25wanted to mention and would love to turn

1:11:27it back over to city staff, community

1:11:29institutions, if you had other other

1:11:31thoughts raised. Yeah, uh Michael.

1:11:34>> Back to you, chair. Um, you had asked

1:11:35the question, um,

1:11:37are

1:11:39some of the orgs here and on Zoom

1:11:41uncertain about the future? And I think

1:11:43I can answer that question on behalf of

1:11:46any everybody. That's the one question.

1:11:48And the answer is yes, right? Um, folks

1:11:51are definitely uncertain about the

1:11:53future, but um I just have a few points

1:11:55to make about zoning real quick. Um, but

1:11:58first I wanted to go back to something

1:11:59that um Assistant City Manager uh

1:12:02Melissa Peters said. Something that I

1:12:04agree fully with. That um doing nothing

1:12:08is not a stabilization strategy. You

1:12:10might not have said that verbatim,

1:12:11that's kind of how I heard it, but

1:12:14but but doing nothing is not a

1:12:16stabilization strategy. Um, the market

1:12:19pressures for greater Cambridge, greater

1:12:21Boston, that's putting pressure in the

1:12:24market that's making changes. So, yes,

1:12:26we do need tools and unfortunately, yes,

1:12:28we do need incentives. But talking about

1:12:31zoning, since that's the meeting we're

1:12:32in,

1:12:33there was a slide about existing

1:12:35stabilization as protection. Projects

1:12:38can preserve existing cultural spaces on

1:12:41another site as an example.

1:12:43You know, have we explored transfer

1:12:45development rights? Like going back to

1:12:47those one-story buildings, is there a

1:12:49way that they could sell their rights if

1:12:51they own the building or if the property

1:12:53owner is willing to sell, which

1:12:55essentially is a form of preservation.

1:12:58You know, you can't do much more with

1:13:00the building if if you have no air

1:13:02rights above. The ground floor might

1:13:04change, but again,

1:13:05that might happen with generational

1:13:07turnover and and other things. So So one

1:13:11is TDR something we can think about for

1:13:13Central Square's zoning. I know the

1:13:15city's done TDR, transfer development

1:13:17rights. Uh MIT has done some on Pacific

1:13:20Street, sort of within the district. So

1:13:23it's happened in and around the square.

1:13:24That's one. Two, there was another slide

1:13:27that was great that said if you only

1:13:29looked at zoning, how would you know

1:13:31this is Cambridge Cultural District?

1:13:33This came up in a meeting with the CRA.

1:13:36In thinking about that, like, how do we

1:13:38prioritize artist housing? You know, how

1:13:41do we prioritize live-work space where

1:13:43artists can live and work here?

1:13:45That will last longer than a mural will,

1:13:48um than than a sign will. You know, how

1:13:51can we make sure that artists live here?

1:13:52And that will define that this is

1:13:55Cambridge's Cultural District, that

1:13:56artists can live here.

1:13:59And then the third piece, um

1:14:02back to zoning, and this might be more

1:14:03design guidelines, so I'd love staff to

1:14:05help me understand this.

1:14:07This idea of new developments uh to

1:14:09accommodate existing nightlife or or

1:14:12bring them back.

1:14:14But back to the challenges about

1:14:16physical function, bringing them back

1:14:19means they need help with ceiling

1:14:21heights, entrances, egress, ventilation,

1:14:24loading, storage, and sound isolation.

1:14:27As someone who's gotten quite a few

1:14:29sound complaints over the over time, you

1:14:32know, how can

1:14:34zoning, which might not be the tool for

1:14:35that? Maybe that's more of a design

1:14:37guideline or something like that, but

1:14:39can that be part of the conversation?

1:14:40Because that's that's fundamentally a

1:14:43challenge. Again, you can get a vanilla

1:14:44box, and if you think you're going to

1:14:47have tenants who live directly above,

1:14:49there's there's going to be conflict.

1:14:50So, how can we just be mindful if we're

1:14:53going to put it out there that new

1:14:54developments need to accommodate or

1:14:57bring back? What are the safeguards to

1:15:00help ensure outside of cost that um

1:15:03they'll be able to coexist in those

1:15:04buildings?

1:15:09>> Kareem had his hand up um and then we'll

1:15:11go to

1:15:12Did I don't know if City staff wanted to

1:15:13respond. So, first question I asked City

1:15:15staff wanted to respond directly to that

1:15:17or or should we maybe just go around and

1:15:23>> Uh through you, chair. Yeah, happy to

1:15:24respond. So, um

1:15:27two of the approaches there uh that I

1:15:29had shown earlier, the ones that

1:15:30involved two sites, are are to a degree

1:15:33what you're getting at. So, transfer

1:15:34development rights. But, I think we had

1:15:36initially been thinking that as the

1:15:38tool. We're now actually thinking that

1:15:40uh

1:15:41not to get overly technical, but a PUD,

1:15:43which is sort of a similar allows for

1:15:44similar options, but a greater degree of

1:15:46flexibility, would actually be the

1:15:48correct way to go. Um

1:15:50I might tap in uh my colleague Jeff if

1:15:53he wants to sort of explain

1:15:55why one is a little more advantageous

1:15:56than the other if he doesn't mind. But,

1:15:58it is something we were originally

1:15:59considering and actually have now have

1:16:00moved to thinking that the uh a PUD

1:16:02approach that allows for uh shifting

1:16:04multiple uses across uh commonly held

1:16:06sites would be even more advantageous,

1:16:08but achieve that same goal.

1:16:14>> Jeff, did you want to add anything to

1:16:15that?

1:16:18>> Hi everyone. Can you hear me? Is my

1:16:19audio working?

1:16:20>> Yep. Yeah, we can hear you.

1:16:22>> Great. Thanks. I was I was worried about

1:16:23that and um and I was sending messages

1:16:26to my colleague, so I I'm in case I

1:16:27couldn't make it on. Yeah, I think the I

1:16:30think what Michael's describing is

1:16:31exactly what we're looking at, ways to

1:16:34um to take different sites and allow

1:16:37flexibility in how development rights

1:16:38can be moved around in order to um

1:16:40achieve certain goals. And that's

1:16:43um whether you call it a TDR or a PUD

1:16:45it's it's all kind of the same thing.

1:16:47It's it's the idea of taking multiple

1:16:48sites and then kind of treating them

1:16:51as one package under zoning so that you

1:16:53can

1:16:54achieve certain goals that you couldn't

1:16:56achieve when you're just talking about

1:16:57one site by itself.

1:17:01>> Great, thank you.

1:17:02We've got Vice Mayor Zeem and then we'll

1:17:04go to Peter and if there's anybody else

1:17:05on the zoom who'd like to uh speak you

1:17:08can use the raise hand feature and we'll

1:17:09add you to the stack. Also want to give

1:17:11a shout out we've got Councillor

1:17:12Flaherty up in the the balcony. Thanks

1:17:13for for waiting

1:17:15Councillor Flaherty. We'll go to go to

1:17:16Vice Mayor Zeem.

1:17:19>> Um

1:17:20yeah, I was going to say the only

1:17:22additional thought I had was that

1:17:25you know

1:17:26with transfer development rights

1:17:27sometimes you do go into like a canyon

1:17:29and valley effect you know where some

1:17:30can be really tall and then it's right

1:17:32next to a really short and it makes it

1:17:34kind of strange. One thing that's I've

1:17:35seen really successful in Toronto is

1:17:37just like a lot of historical

1:17:38preservation where like you know the

1:17:40first two stories of the building or

1:17:42like you know however tall the building

1:17:43is currently is preserved and then they

1:17:44would just say with a cantilever add on

1:17:46top of it. That does require some

1:17:48creativity but I've seen it in Toronto

1:17:51in particular to be quite successful so

1:17:53just wanted to throw that out there as

1:17:54well.

1:17:56And then I guess my question a little

1:17:57bit is like um

1:18:00what should we expect in terms of next

1:18:03steps a little bit in that um I would

1:18:06give this either to the chair

1:18:10or to my co-chair and Councillor Sabrina

1:18:12Wheeler or to the staff

1:18:14or we can figure this out like

1:18:16afterwards as we're

1:18:18you know compiling all the feedback

1:18:19we've gotten from the public.

1:18:22>> Yeah, does city staff want to speak? I

1:18:24don't think there's a you know specific

1:18:26follow up we have from this. We don't

1:18:27have another committee meeting planned

1:18:28or you know there's not a date where

1:18:30zoning is going to come forward but I

1:18:31think taking these conversations and

1:18:33recommendations and and adapting them

1:18:35are a big part of it. I don't know if

1:18:36there's anything staff you want to add

1:18:38to that.

1:18:45>> Thank you so much, Chair, and I do want

1:18:47to add something, but I also want to

1:18:48give gratitude for your opening remarks

1:18:50because I think you hit every topic that

1:18:52we've talked about around the table. And

1:18:54so I'm grateful that you've thought

1:18:55deeply about this and pulled us

1:18:57together. I also I didn't see Christina

1:18:59walk in, but you talked early in the in

1:19:01the conversation about the tools in the

1:19:03toolbox.

1:19:05The toolbox is here in the room with the

1:19:07foundation, with CRA, with the city

1:19:09staff and departments, with the BID, and

1:19:12with council paying very close attention

1:19:14to all of these needs. And you know,

1:19:15someone who has the benefit of

1:19:17longevity, I'll tell you that's not

1:19:19always been the case, and I think we

1:19:20have the best fighting chance to get

1:19:23really good work done and be able to

1:19:25fasten down and bolt these things in

1:19:26place, so we do have a sustainable

1:19:29ecosystem. But the piece I wanted to

1:19:31reiterate, you said in your opening

1:19:32remarks and Mike just said it as well,

1:19:34but I don't think it can be said enough.

1:19:37Artist housing, artist housing, artist

1:19:40housing. And I'll actually expand the

1:19:42aperture just a little bit to also say

1:19:44cultural worker housing. We employ far

1:19:47more cultural workers in Cambridge than

1:19:48we employ artists, and that's not a bad

1:19:51thing. I think these guys know that

1:19:53deeply and the folks that are operators

1:19:55that are on the call. And so we have to

1:19:57find a way to do more about that because

1:19:59I think when Councilor and Chair Zuse

1:20:01talks about the authentic places in

1:20:04Maryland and New York that she cares

1:20:06about or that her family experiences,

1:20:09those are not boutique locations, and we

1:20:11cannot be a city where we import our

1:20:14artists and our cultural workers. Some

1:20:15of that will always happen because of

1:20:17size, because of cost, but we have to be

1:20:19a place where people can live and

1:20:21actually create an authentic community.

1:20:24And so I really appreciate this, but

1:20:25artist housing.

1:20:28>> Thank you, that's very helpful. We're

1:20:29going to Mr. DeMuro, and if anybody else

1:20:31would like to get on stack, just raise

1:20:32your hand.

1:20:33>> Um

1:20:34Mr. Demiro, I love that. Um

1:20:37I was just responding a a little bit to

1:20:38both of the situations. You know, the

1:20:40dance complex is is a a rent-by-the-hour

1:20:43situation for the most part, and it

1:20:44could go back to that. It when I got

1:20:47here 15 years ago,

1:20:50the

1:20:51the bloom of the newness of the

1:20:52organization from the '90s it was

1:20:54starting to get a little black and white

1:20:56and kind of grayish, and and that's not

1:20:59shade to anybody. It's just the natural

1:21:01life cycle of a nonprofit. Where do we

1:21:03go from here? They didn't have the

1:21:04skills necessarily to to grow

1:21:05differently. But, what I think has

1:21:07happened, not because of me, but because

1:21:10of this idea of the third space that

1:21:12people go to, home, work, and this space

1:21:15that we have, it

1:21:17it's not something you can create really

1:21:19easily. And so

1:21:20so in answer to your question, we could

1:21:23survive, but it would be a shell of what

1:21:25it was. It would be rent-by-the-hour,

1:21:27there'd be a a physical caretaker to the

1:21:29space, but there would be no soul

1:21:30caretaker of the of it. And when I

1:21:33started thinking about that and the

1:21:34worries about

1:21:37you know, everybody becoming kind of

1:21:39cookie-cutter and Disneyfied in Central

1:21:41Square, that's what happens when you

1:21:43know, you you hire the caretaker and the

1:21:45person is looking at the bottom line and

1:21:46you got to make a profit and

1:21:48everything's plastic and you spray some

1:21:49Windex on it and it's clean and then you

1:21:51go home. We know that Central Square

1:21:53doesn't clean up with a little Windex,

1:21:55right? And so I feel like there's

1:21:57something about

1:21:58the conversation

1:22:00that echoes for me is that it just takes

1:22:03taking care of your artists and housing

1:22:06and guest artist housing. Keeping my

1:22:08artists in that building

1:22:10I would say there's probably 8,000

1:22:12professionally geared dancers, probably

1:22:14500 companies

1:22:16in addition to the the 80 teaching

1:22:18artists that are there all the time. And

1:22:19they come and go and they work other

1:22:21places because uh they have to to make a

1:22:23make a living go. But, wouldn't it be

1:22:25great to have that spirit in Cambridge

1:22:27that

1:22:28you know, when I was growing up, go to

1:22:30Minneapolis, you'll find the funding,

1:22:31you'll find it here. San Francisco,

1:22:33Seattle. Wouldn't it be great that

1:22:34Cambridge was a you know, the first name

1:22:36off people's lips along with everything

1:22:38you're doing well, but we really have to

1:22:41make it comfortable.

1:22:43It's one thing to say that we're we're

1:22:44not racist, right? Well, are we pro

1:22:46artist in the same same

1:22:48way that we talk about other othering of

1:22:51a people.

1:22:53>> Uh Councillor Zizi.

1:22:57>> Thank you. That was just Thank you for

1:22:59the Minneapolis plug. That was just

1:23:00making me think about Minneapolis also

1:23:02has an incredible arts and

1:23:05apparently it's because they had

1:23:07industrial wealth, they have strong

1:23:09philanthropic support, immigrant

1:23:12diversity, and pioneering arts

1:23:14infrastructure. It's an incredibly

1:23:16exciting place. But then what I really

1:23:18want to do is hear from Tom Evans of the

1:23:21Cambridge Redevelopment Authority

1:23:22because you've really been thinking hard

1:23:25about these issues and what are you

1:23:28If you would, can you reveal

1:23:31like what are your thoughts about how we

1:23:34can ensure that our arts continue to

1:23:37thrive here and grow?

1:23:39>> [snorts]

1:23:40>> Um thank you to the chair. It's a big

1:23:43question. Um

1:23:45so we've been looking across the board

1:23:47at

1:23:48this issue for both artist production

1:23:51space and artist housing space. And

1:23:53there's a lot of models out there and

1:23:55we're looking at lots of case studies

1:23:59and so forth. They're all challenging to

1:24:01pull off especially in a place where

1:24:03land is already expensive.

1:24:05Um so, you know, whether it's I mean I

1:24:08used to live in Minneapolis

1:24:10and there's a lot of Minneapolis that's

1:24:12not that expensive

1:24:14or wasn't.

1:24:15And so there's a lot of that Providence

1:24:17also another place that really thrived

1:24:19when land costs and development costs

1:24:21are down. So, that's the challenge we

1:24:23face no matter what we do.

1:24:26Um and so every project example that

1:24:28we're looking at

1:24:30um for more uh more contemporary work is

1:24:33going to take a lot of resources. Um and

1:24:35I think we'll have to look at a full

1:24:37toolbox of what um housing funds are

1:24:40available, whether um tax incentives are

1:24:42something that we've uh discussed for um

1:24:46a couple of um

1:24:48land uses that we'd want to encourage um

1:24:51writing down land value, writing down

1:24:53financing costs, um and also just

1:24:56finding a way to um

1:24:59basically subsidize through um

1:25:01development projects. So, one of the

1:25:04things that we've done a a few um

1:25:06examples of

1:25:08are projects [clears throat] where we

1:25:09invest a fair amount of capital

1:25:11um

1:25:12as an organization and we have

1:25:14usually don't expect to see any of that

1:25:16come back um

1:25:18with the hope that then we find

1:25:19something that can maintain itself and

1:25:21keep the lights on cuz that's a a real

1:25:23cost too. So, um Bishop Allen down the

1:25:26street was a rather expensive adventure.

1:25:29Uh I said venture and then adventure at

1:25:31the same time um cuz both are true. Um

1:25:34and we just got to a stable place where

1:25:37uh below market nonprofit rents were

1:25:39able to keep the building running

1:25:41without um

1:25:42uh creating a long-term burden for us or

1:25:44the city. Um and even that is difficult

1:25:48with um art space uh because of uh the

1:25:51costs of utilities, costs of labor and

1:25:53so forth. So, I guess it's all to say

1:25:55it's every individual project you want

1:25:58to take on is going to be hard and take

1:26:00a lot of resources. Uh there's no magic

1:26:03bullet at all um and it's going to take

1:26:05uh

1:26:06I think it's

1:26:07uh

1:26:08public money, private money, and

1:26:10creativity uh to pull these projects

1:26:12off.

1:26:15>> Thank you.

1:26:17Other folks who have questions would

1:26:19like to speak either in person or on

1:26:20Zoom?

1:26:25Great. Uh

1:26:27It's not seeing anyone else. Is there

1:26:29anything that um city staff want to add

1:26:31as a as a wrap-up or reflections from

1:26:33any of this?

1:26:35Also okay if there's not.

1:26:38>> Through you, chair. Um I think I'd I'd

1:26:40love to just put in a plug for the

1:26:42upcoming engagement. So, when we were

1:26:43talking about next steps, um we have an

1:26:46online survey that's going right now.

1:26:47We've had robust engagement and we'd

1:26:48love even more. Um I do have a plug for

1:26:51that in the pamphlet. People can find

1:26:52that on the project website. Um that

1:26:55will be open through, I believe, October

1:26:569th is what we're targeting right now.

1:26:58So, there'll be an email imminently sort

1:26:59of announcing that. We wanted to make

1:27:00sure that it stayed open through this

1:27:02hearing to give people an opportunity to

1:27:04to engage with that. And then, as I

1:27:05mentioned previously, at the end of the

1:27:07month, uh October 29th, at Street Theory

1:27:09Collective, uh in the evening, we'll be

1:27:11having an open house. And that's

1:27:13intended to share out to the community

1:27:15um refinements and updates to the

1:27:17recommendations that we had shared

1:27:18initially uh in late 2024.

1:27:21Um and then afterwards, uh connection

1:27:23point, obviously, with the council uh to

1:27:25sort of think through next steps in

1:27:27terms of drafting a petition.

1:27:30>> Great. Thank you so much. Um well, thank

1:27:31you to city staff for putting this

1:27:33meeting together today. Thank you so

1:27:35much to the uh community institutions

1:27:37for taking time out of, I'm sure, busy

1:27:38schedules to uh share your thoughts,

1:27:40insights, reflections on this. Um the

1:27:43feedback was really helpful and um we

1:27:45hope to, you know, really keep you

1:27:46engaged going forward through whatever

1:27:48comes next um to address some of these

1:27:50pieces. And please feel free to reach

1:27:51out to myself, other councilors, city

1:27:53staff. This uh feedback is really

1:27:55useful.

1:27:56Um and with that, I um will take a

1:27:59motion to adjourn from Councilor Zuze.

1:28:03>> Councilor El-Zoubi.

1:28:05>> Yes, Vice Mayor Zeem.

1:28:06>> Yes.

1:28:07>> Yes, Councilor McGovern is absent.

1:28:09Councilor Springweiler.

1:28:10>> Yes.

1:28:10>> Yes, Councilor Zuze.

1:28:12>> Yes.

1:28:13>> Yes, that's four members voting in the

1:28:14affirmative.

1:28:15>> We are adjourned. Thank you all.