2026-10-13 - City Council

00:12Good evening. You probably turn on my

00:14microphone. Let's try that again. Good

00:15evening. Welcome to the October 13th,

00:172026 governing body meeting of the city

00:20of Topeka, Kansas. I will now call this

00:22meeting to order.

00:26>> I was going slow for you. I was going

00:28slow for you.

00:30Council member Ortiz this evening has

00:32the invocation. So, please turn your

00:35attention to her and rise if you are

00:37able.

00:42Thank you, Mr. Mayor. I'm out of breath

00:43here.

00:45Um, I thought it was fitting that we

00:47would have our fire chaplain come and

00:49give the invocation tonight. Um, this is

00:52Holly,

00:54Reverend Holly Tapley.

00:57>> Tapley. Tapley is the disaster response

01:00coordinator for the Great Plains United

01:02Methodist Conference covering Kansas and

01:04Nebraska. A native of Alabama, she

01:07served churches in the South for 30

01:10years before joining the Great Plains

01:12Conference. Reverend Tapley represents

01:14faith-based organizations on the state

01:17of Kansas Homeland Security Supervisory

01:20Committee. She became a chaplain for the

01:22fire department four years ago. We

01:25appreciate you because we appreciate

01:26fire. Thank you.

01:27>> Yes, we do. Thank you for the

01:28invitation.

01:29>> You're welcome.

01:30>> Yes.

01:30>> May we bow together?

01:32>> Father, we give you thanks for the

01:35opportunity to be together tonight for

01:38the cares of our city.

01:41Bless this time, Father, of discussion,

01:44negotiations,

01:46making the tough calls, but yet keeping

01:50in mind, Father, each and every citizen

01:54of our city, the city of Topeka. Bless

01:59this time and all who are here, all who

02:03care

02:04for you being in our presence. we give

02:09you thanks for it is in Christ's name

02:11that we do pray. Amen.

02:14>> Thank you.

02:18>> I pledge allegiance to the flag of the

02:20United States of America and to the

02:23republic for which it stands, one nation

02:26under God, indivisible with liberty and

02:30justice for all.

02:36All right, with that we will turn to the

02:39roll call.

02:41>> Mayor Duncan

02:42>> here.

02:42>> Council members Hiller.

02:48>> Present.

02:51>> Council member Hiller, we see you. Can

02:52we hear you?

02:55>> Okay, she's present.

02:56>> Well, you are cutting in and down. I'm

02:58here.

03:00>> Thank you. Uh, council member Valdivia

03:04>> here, Ortiz

03:06>> here,

03:06>> Banks

03:07>> here,

03:08>> Kell

03:09>> here,

03:09>> Miller

03:10>> here,

03:10>> Bradberry

03:11>> here, and McGee

03:14>> and Hoer.

03:19>> Okay, we have nine present.

03:22>> All right, with that, we have a handful

03:24of presentations this evening. We will

03:26start with the first one, obviously.

03:28City clerk.

03:29>> The first item is um a presentation on

03:32the FY 2027 to 2030 strategic plan.

03:38>> City manager.

03:40>> Thank you, mayor, members of the

03:41governing body. As part of my annual

03:42work plan, the governing body has asked

03:44that we develop a strategic plan to be

03:46implemented by the end of the first

03:47quarter of 2027. To that end, we have

03:50contracted with the University of Kansas

03:52who complete the 23 who completed the

03:542023 through 2027 strategic plan to

03:57develop our FY27 through FY23 strategic

04:00plan. In this presentation, we will

04:02discuss the work plan which includes

04:03individual interviews and group work

04:05sessions with the governing body and our

04:07executive team beginning November 2026

04:10and culminating with the developed plan

04:11for council's consideration for adoption

04:13by March of 2027.

04:15Please note that the FY2027 FY2030

04:18strategic plan will be a separate effort

04:19from developing our FY2027 strategic

04:22goals which we will discuss later this

04:24evening. With that, I will turn this

04:26over to Christy Northcut, director of

04:28KU's public management center to lead us

04:30through the discussion. Christy should

04:32be joining us virtually. Christy, the

04:34floor is yours now.

04:36>> Thank you, Robert. Can everybody hear

04:38me? Okay.

04:40>> Yeah. So, we're going to work on our end

04:41of turning it up a little bit, but we

04:43can hear you. Okay. Um, I'll be sharing

04:46my screen with you this evening. Let me

04:48get that pulled up.

05:03>> Are you able to see that PowerPoint

05:05presentation?

05:06>> Yes, we can see it. Yes.

05:09>> Um so this evening I just wanted to

05:11introduce myself, introduce our team

05:14which will be on the next slide. Um and

05:16thank you for the opportunity um to work

05:19alongside the city of Topeka, your

05:20governing body and leadership staff on

05:23your strategic planning efforts. Um the

05:25presentation as I've outlined um mirrors

05:28the proposal which has already been

05:30approved. It is a strategic planning

05:32process in four phases and this is our

05:36strategic planning team that will be

05:38working alongside you. Um I am a former

05:41city manager myself from the city of

05:43Glinsour, Kansas. Um but four years

05:46serving my city here. Um and prior to

05:48that spent eight years in a suburb of

05:50Phoenix, Arizona. Originally am from

05:53Kansas, a graduate of Bethany College, K

05:56State, and KU. Um, and I am a certified

05:59public manager through our um, certified

06:02public manager program at the University

06:04of Kansas. So, I'm so delighted to be

06:07leading this team that will guide you

06:09through the strategic planning process.

06:11Joining me will be Jenny McBovich. She's

06:14our co-designer and one of our

06:16facilitators for this project. She spent

06:1810 years in strategic planning and

06:20process improvement. She's a board

06:22certified coach. um and she is our

06:26assistant director of consulting and

06:27coaching services at the public

06:29management center. Annie will serve as

06:32our project manager. She is our

06:34scheduling expert. She does all of our

06:36documentation support and runs all of

06:38our logistics for us. So, these are the

06:40the three primary people that you'll see

06:43um throughout the course of the

06:44engagement. You may see some additional

06:46facilitators or uh presenters as we work

06:50through this, but these is this is your

06:51primary team.

06:54Um, these are the values that guide our

06:56work at the public management center. We

06:59want to be sure that every engagement is

07:01inclusive of community voices at

07:03multiple levels. We've already met with

07:05um with Robert and Chase and Caitlyn um

07:08last month and began to solidify the

07:11proposal and the plan um and we have

07:14several um interviews already scheduled

07:18with um members of the governing body

07:19and the staff. And so we look forward to

07:22hearing from everyone at multiple levels

07:24of the organization. We customize all of

07:27our approaches to meet your unique needs

07:29and challenges. We are not a

07:30plug-and-play organization. Um, every

07:33one of our engagements with every city,

07:35county, um, that we serve is is

07:38customized to be sure that it meets your

07:39needs. All of our work is informed by

07:42up-to-date research by KU faculty and

07:45all of the adult learning techniques

07:47that we use and the methods that we

07:49employ are backed by that research. We

07:52also know that time is of the essence

07:54for all of you and very important. So we

07:57want to be sure that every engagement

07:58with you um we use that time effectively

08:01and um to the best effort of everyone

08:04who's involved. [clears throat]

08:06We also want to be sure that we're doing

08:07strategic doing and not strategic

08:10planning. Um, we have an action

08:12orientation to be sure that everything

08:14we deliver to you can be acted upon as

08:16you move it forward. Um, everybody knows

08:19that it's easy for a strategic plan to

08:21be passed and then put on a shelf um or

08:24in a shared drive. We want to be sure

08:26that everything that we deliver for you

08:28can be acted upon. And then we provide

08:31ongoing support beyond the engagement

08:33itself. Uh it's not unusual for us to go

08:36back to cities and counties that we

08:38serve um six months, one year later to

08:40check in. We're always available over

08:42email um and Zoom and Teams to be sure

08:46that any questions you have along the

08:47way, we remain um alongside you.

08:52This is the timeline for the engagement

08:54as it was outlined in the proposal. Um

08:56as you heard um the city manager, we

08:58will begin this process in November. We

09:01have already scheduled preliminary

09:03interviews with the governing body and

09:05city staff leaders for November and

09:07December. Those will be conducted

09:09virtually. Um and we have the same

09:11interview question um questions set for

09:14every person that we interview and that

09:16will lead to some um themes and trends

09:19and things that we know will ultimately

09:21lead to strategic priorities for your

09:23team.

09:25Then in January, we will conduct one

09:28large uh session with the governing

09:30body, a one-day session followed by a

09:32one-day session with leadership staff

09:34that'll bring all of that interview

09:36information to light so that we can

09:38begin to work on developing the plan and

09:40the priorities and all of the task areas

09:43within that plan. In February, we will

09:46put that plan together and have a

09:48half-day discussion with the governing

09:50body. um the dates are to be determined

09:53and then we will have a plan for you to

09:55adopt at an early spring governing body

09:57meeting um hopefully early March. That's

10:01the timeline as it stands at this time

10:04and these are the phases. I'll just work

10:06you through these. I won't read every

10:07line. I know that you have the

10:08opportunity to read this yourself. Um

10:11but just an overview of the phases. Um,

10:14right now we're in that pre-work project

10:16initiation phase where we're meeting

10:18with the city manager's team and getting

10:20everything planned out for the

10:22engagement and those interviews as I

10:24mentioned will be held in November and

10:27December.

10:28Next phase are those work sessions in

10:31January and we outlined all of the goals

10:34um for both the governing body and the

10:36leadership staff so that you can have a

10:38more clear idea of what to expect at

10:41each of those work sessions.

10:43I'll leave that for you to review at

10:45your leisure. And then phase three is

10:49developing that strategic plan document

10:51where we capture all the elements from

10:53the previous phases into a written plan.

10:56And then we'll have that half-day

10:57discussion with the governing body to

10:59help orient you to that framework and

11:01identify the cadence for the city

11:02manager and staff to track progress

11:05updates over time and then ultimately

11:07adoption of that strategic plan during

11:10one of your March uh project meetings.

11:14This you'll be provided deliverables

11:16including word and PDF versions of your

11:19strategic plan, a summary handout, and

11:22of course any presentation materials

11:23that are needed for adoption hearings or

11:26public meetings.

11:28And so at that time, I would turn it

11:30over to you for questions. Happy to

11:32answer any questions about the PMC or

11:34this engagement as presented.

11:37>> Questions, comments from the governing

11:38body?

11:43I can't see council members Vald Divia

11:45Alkala and Hiller. I don't know if they

11:47have their pads tonight or not.

11:50Can you either help me see them or

11:54is there a way to let me see them on the

11:56screen?

11:58Yep, I think that's it. Yep, there they

12:00are. All right, just so you know, I can

12:02see you now. So, if you have a question,

12:03just raise your hand or speak up if you

12:05don't have your pad.

12:08All right.

12:11All right. And I guess if you So

12:12Christie, is your plan to reach out to

12:14every member of the governing body for a

12:16one-on-one?

12:18>> Yeah. So Annie, our project coordinator,

12:21uh, project manager, will be working

12:22with Caitlyn and the city manager's

12:24office to um, get all of those

12:27interviews on the calendar in November

12:29and December. There'll be three minute

12:31interviews with each of you.

12:33>> Perfect. So, just be aware that's coming

12:35and don't ignore it, please.

12:39Any other questions or comments? All

12:41right. Well, I don't see any. So, thank

12:43you. We look forward to the process.

12:45>> So much for entrusting us to help you

12:47along the way.

12:48>> Perfect. Thank you, Christine. Thank you

12:50to your team.

12:52All right. With that, we'll move on to

12:54our second presentation of the evening.

12:57City clerk.

12:58The second presentation is from

13:00Metropolitan Topeka Airport Authority

13:02MTAA planned data center.

13:07>> City Manager.

13:08>> Thank you. Members of the governing

13:10body. In this presentation, Curtis Neen,

13:12president of the Metropolitan Topeka

13:14Airport Authority will discuss a

13:15potential data center development at

13:17[clears throat] Fors Forbesfield. As

13:19city staff has not been involved in

13:21discussions on this initiative and

13:22council has asked questions about the

13:23potential development, I ask for this

13:25presentation. With that, I'll turn this

13:27over to Mr. Sne to lead us through this

13:29discussion. Sir,

13:30>> thank you, Mr. City Manager, Mr. Mayor,

13:32members of the council. It's a pleasure

13:34to see you tonight. I am Curtis Sneen.

13:35I'm the president and executive director

13:37of the Metropolitan Topeka Airport

13:39Authority.

13:41I can't help but pause momentarily and

13:45ask you to look around this room.

13:48It is full of concerned citizens. I

13:50understand 18 or 20 of them signed up to

13:53speak on this topic. If you think about

13:55it, this is the idea, isn't it? It's

13:59something of an inspiration that this

14:01many people have stepped forward to make

14:04sure their views are heard and this is

14:06an important topic. Their concerns are

14:08important and they need to be taken

14:10seriously and uh it's my pleasure to be

14:13here to engage in that conversation.

14:17It's a unfortunate I don't think the

14:19people watching on the live stream can

14:21rest assured there's a big crowd here in

14:23the room. It's an inspiration. If you

14:25think about it, a community that was

14:28exhausted and apathetic

14:31and didn't show up would be a depressed

14:34community. We should be proud of this.

14:36Now, please allow me to share some

14:38information with you about an initiative

14:40we are pursuing out at Forbesfield. It

14:43is a a potential data center on the

14:45south end of Forbes Field. I was

14:47presented when I came in with a pretty

14:49large stack of emails with questions in

14:52them which I've read through as quickly

14:55as I could and I have to say most of

14:57them are very well put and to be

15:01respected and responded to the best of

15:03our ability. Many of those are questions

15:06to which there simply aren't answers yet

15:09because I can't emphasize enough that

15:11this project is in its preliminary

15:13stages. Part of the reason that I I'm

15:17happy to be here with you now is because

15:20um it's a conversation that will

15:22probably take place over a long period

15:24of time and to to show up next year on

15:28the verge of you know u breaking ground

15:33would be unacceptable. It would be

15:35exactly contrary to the idea of having

15:38an open window on what a public agency

15:41like the authority is supposed to be

15:43doing. So, I'm here with you tonight,

15:45but I can't emphasize enough, we're

15:47talking about a project that is in its

15:50very early stages. And one of the key

15:53hurdles that is yet to be overcome by

15:56the firm that is hoping to develop this

15:59is securing from uh our power company

16:02the assurance that they'll be able to

16:04supply them the energy they need in the

16:07time frame that they need it. Now,

16:09that's no uh I'm not criticizing our

16:12friends at EverG. They have a huge

16:14backlog. Uh they have a great deal of

16:16work to do and it's going to take them

16:18time. There's it's really not possible

16:21to progress and and flesh out a number

16:24of these design details and other sorts

16:26of questions until they know that

16:28they're going to have the power. So, as

16:31we go forward, I just want to preface

16:33you with if if you ask questions, I'm

16:35not avoiding them that many of them just

16:37don't have answers yet. It's it's that

16:39early in the process. And my question is

16:41gonna be whether I can advance the

16:42slide.

16:44>> Um

16:46I've had poor luck with this in the

16:48past.

16:50Any any coaching tips? Is there a

16:53>> not

16:54>> keyboard? Is it turned on?

16:55>> I think so. The young man who ushered me

16:57in here.

16:58>> There's a button on the side of the

16:59remote. Is it turned on?

17:00>> Magic trick.

17:00>> Two magic trick which there we go. All

17:04right. Thank you. Thank you.

17:05>> Well, I'm the mayor.

17:07>> Let's contextualize this a little bit.

17:08For one thing, we know that data centers

17:10are not new. I can tell you from

17:12firsthand experience that my father used

17:14to take me to the data center in the

17:16Santa Fe building um which was a

17:18dedicated floor with computers in it

17:20where they process the railroads data

17:22when I was 5 years old. Uh the in more

17:26recent decades this phenomenon of large

17:29centers that are uh dedicated to the

17:32processing of data for third parties has

17:34become more prevalent. They are popping

17:37up all in all parts of the world. It's

17:40true that as with most advancing

17:42technologies, this one has had its

17:46problems early on. There are some pretty

17:49foul examples of data centers in the

17:52beginning that were for example very

17:54loud as many people have raised concerns

17:56about. They some of them were 80 to 100

17:58dB which would be about like a diesel

18:01truck on your front porch 24/7. Uh many

18:05of them consumed huge quantities of

18:08water um and they consumed a great deal

18:12of energy almost sometimes a billion or

18:15more megawws and many of them were

18:18placed in very uh insensitive places.

18:23I've personally seen videos of these

18:27data centers that were literally right

18:28across the street from residences.

18:31I agree with everybody that says that

18:33that's unacceptable. I agree.

18:36I'm here to tell you that the industry

18:38has learned from its mistakes. It's

18:39tried to it's tried to address many of

18:42those and it's adopted newer

18:44technologies. So the main point I want

18:47to leave you with is that the type of

18:49center that we're discussing is of the

18:53new type and a great many of the

18:55concerns I think maybe stem from some of

18:58those uh frankly nightmares from the

19:02past. So for example we know that the

19:05old style mega centers consumed like I

19:07say somewhere maybe half a billion

19:10megawws maybe maybe more. the type of

19:13tech center that we're talking about and

19:15I'm going to pin that idea of tech

19:16center. I want to come back to that um

19:19is is estimated to consume between 70

19:21and 80 megawws. You can see uh that

19:26these things don't consume nearly as

19:27much power.

19:29There's been some attention paid to the

19:31fact that the developer prefers to refer

19:34to the work that they do as tech

19:37centers.

19:38The reason for that is because it forces

19:42a conversation and it causes the

19:44listener to say, "Well, what's a tech

19:46center?" And it opens up the

19:48conversation about how we're talking

19:49about a much less oppressive, hostile

19:54type of center. But I'm not here to try

19:57to perform any verbal slide of hand on

19:59you or anybody else. This is a data

20:03center. will have computer servers in it

20:05processing information for third

20:06parties. And actually, Ms. Marble, if

20:09she's here, helped me realize something.

20:12I appreciate that. We had a long,

20:14frankly, pleasant task or conversation

20:17about this. And she helped me realize

20:19that there was a suggestion that somehow

20:21by using a different word, we would

20:23sneak around the mortoriia that are in

20:25place and we would somehow get in a back

20:27door. Let me assure you, that's not

20:30anybody's intent. That's not going to

20:32happen. Nobody at the county would allow

20:34that. That's not the case. But the point

20:37is,

20:38let's talk about why this is different

20:40from those massive howling monstrous

20:44centers that we've seen elsewhere. From

20:46here on, I'm going to call it a data

20:47center. I'm not trying to pull anything

20:50over on you. Let's talk about water

20:51consumption. It is the new style of data

20:54center. It's a closed loop system. It

20:56consumes roughly uh what an industrial

20:59warehouse would consume. It's about a

21:01100 about a million gallons per year

21:03roughly. These are estimates. The thing

21:05hasn't been designed yet. So there it's

21:08not possible to provide you with more

21:09specific numbers. But by order of

21:11magnitude, I can assure you that the

21:13water department could provide you a

21:15long list of other customers in Topeka

21:17who use orders of magnitude more water

21:20than that. So the consumption of this

21:22center at this center of water is uh

21:26relatively modest compared to many of

21:29the other users in town and uh the data

21:32centers as they used to operate. As far

21:34as noise goes, what we've been told by

21:37this developer uh is that they estimate

21:41that their data their data center will

21:44produce einate somewhere between 50 dB

21:47and 60 to 65 dB. Uh, as I understand it,

21:52I'm probably projecting more than 50 dB

21:55right now. Um, naturally, when one of

21:58those T38s comes in over the airport,

22:01that's closer to probably 120 or 130 dB.

22:05It is not anticipated that this data

22:07center will produce the monstrous howls

22:11that you used to hear. And the reason

22:13for that is that most of the sound

22:15emanating from those old data centers

22:18came from the evaporation towers. They

22:20used that's also why they burned through

22:22so much water. They used to just

22:24evaporate. The water would run past the

22:26servers, cool them off, and then

22:27evaporate out the cooling towers. So,

22:30the water's leaving and it's howling as

22:33it leaves. That's why they were loud and

22:35use so much water. These modern types of

22:37centers aren't like that. They don't

22:39have evaporation towers. They recycle

22:41the water. And so, uh, we anticipate

22:44this being much, much quieter.

22:47So, let's talk about what we're

22:48proposing here. And I want to be careful

22:51in the way we go into this graphic here

22:54because there's been some suggestion

22:55that it's designed to deflect the eye

22:58somehow. Um, we are talking about a

23:02section of our property at the south end

23:04of Forbes Field.

23:06We are initially talking about roughly

23:0930 to 40 acres with two buildings in it.

23:12Roughly 150,000 square ft. Again, none

23:14of that's designed yet. None of this has

23:16been surveyed yet. That's how far out we

23:19are. This is conceptual, but the big

23:21picture is that phase one would consist

23:24of probably two buildings, total of

23:26about 300,000 square ft of server space.

23:28And the developer has asked us to uh,

23:32you know, give them the ability to come

23:34to us later on and consider a phase two

23:37whereupon they might expand and add a

23:39couple more. Okay, there's nothing being

23:42hidden here. There's nothing duplicitous

23:43about that. two buildings to begin with,

23:46possible expansion to two more. There is

23:48no intention on the part of the MTA,

23:50either myself or our board, to turn this

23:54part of our field into a massive data

23:56center campus. Um, I feel obliged to

24:00point out to you that when this person

24:02called me in June, they got a very

24:05frosty reception from me. I wasn't

24:08interested in talking to them. It took

24:09about three phone calls before we found

24:12our way to a place where I was

24:13comfortable that we were considering

24:16bringing something to our airport and to

24:17our community that uh would be

24:20acceptable. Um so there was in in no

24:23sense have we been out marketing this

24:24property to turn it into a data center

24:26farm. That isn't reality. The site

24:29roughly speaking is about 1,000 ft back

24:32from 77th Street there. And as far as I

24:35could tell from Google Earth, the

24:36nearest residence is about a half a mile

24:38away. Um, again, that's to be verified,

24:41but this gives you a rough sense of what

24:44we're talking about. It's way down on

24:45the south side of our of our airport,

24:48excuse me. So, where are we at? We have

24:51negotiated a non-binding letter of

24:53intent with this developer.

24:55That does not suggest that uh the

24:57project is further along than I'm saying

25:00it is. They needed that level of

25:03agreement in order to get in the door

25:05with EverG. Everg gets so many calls by

25:09people who want to stand up data

25:11centers. They have a filtration system

25:13to make sure they're not talking to

25:14lobby or h lo hobbyists. So if if you

25:17expect to be able to have that

25:18conversation with the officials at

25:19EverG, you need to have something in

25:21your hands that says I'm serious and I

25:23have a legitimate opportunity to control

25:25some property where this would go.

25:27That's why we've entered into a a

25:29non-binding letter of intent. Um, the

25:32developer still has so much due

25:34diligence to do that that that's this

25:37huge gap in information that I'm not

25:40going to be able to supply to you. It

25:41will be at least spring of next year

25:43before they're ready to come before the

25:45county and file their application. And

25:48it is at that point, assuming they've

25:50gotten their power needs worked through,

25:53that the other utilities uh will be

25:56addressed at this site. And again, I'm

25:58going to come back to that other utility

26:00concept because it has a major

26:03ramification for this project. Um bottom

26:07line is we are talking about a project

26:10that is

26:12something like 18 months out before

26:14we're really able to even uh you know

26:18get well I counted wrong. Something like

26:216 to 8 months out before we're able to

26:24have the level of specificity that's

26:26being asked for here. Um so what have we

26:29agreed to if you want to put it that

26:31way? It is a non-binding letter of of

26:34commitment but of intent. But what have

26:36we discussed? We have talked about

26:39leasing this ground to this developer

26:42that first 30 or 40 acres and then if

26:44they want to expand then there will be a

26:46negotiation of the rent etc for that

26:49extra property down there. Um they have

26:52committed to constructing a modestiz

26:54data center these four buildings here at

26:56most. They have committed to using the

26:59modern low impact technology, the closed

27:01loop systems, the high effic high

27:03efficiency lighting etc. They have

27:06committed to landscaping around the

27:08thing to minimize

27:10the nominal impact anyway on the

27:12surrounding area. This area has actually

27:14got a tree line to the south of it and

27:17partially to the east of it. Um and they

27:20will also be putting in uh landscaping

27:22so that the whatever noise is emanated

27:25by this thing uh will be further

27:28minimized. And most importantly they

27:31have agreed at their cost to build the

27:34service road to get out to this site and

27:37to take care of whatever expenses are

27:39required to get electricity to this site

27:41and whatever expenses are necessary to

27:44get water and sewer to this site. Now I

27:46know the city has a moratorum on hooking

27:48up to city water. So we're not that far.

27:51Chances are very good that when the time

27:53comes to have that discussion the

27:55moratorum will have been lifted and

27:56there'll be a discussion with the public

27:58works director about how to accomplish

28:00that. Uh they are considering some other

28:02types of options to get their water but

28:06uh that will be on their nickel and

28:09that's a very important point.

28:11What hasn't been agreed to? Because I

28:13know there's been some discussion about

28:15sort of things happening in a veiled

28:18manner. The county has not agreed to

28:20anything. They can't have they're under

28:22a moratorum. So, I can't be more clear

28:25about that. No application has been

28:26filed. Uh there isn't anything for them

28:29to agree to. I can tell you that in the

28:32very first conversation I had with this

28:34developer,

28:35basically the first thing I said to him

28:37after I said hello was, "I hope you

28:40don't have your hand out for any

28:41incentive dollars because this community

28:42has no appetite to incentivize data

28:45centers." He said, "I know nobody does.

28:47Forget it. There are no incentive

28:49dollars going to this project." Even

28:52more so, uh, I've probably noted to most

28:56of you that the airport property is

28:58statutoily not on the tax rules, right?

29:00We don't collect, we aren't assessed

29:02property tax, but it's been

29:06100% clear from the earliest

29:08conversations that this developer will

29:11still be required by the county to pay

29:14something equivalent to the property

29:16taxes they would have been required to

29:18pay if we were on the tax rules. they'll

29:20pay a payment in lie of taxes. It's not

29:23really up to us to um negotiate that.

29:25That'll be between them and the county,

29:28but rest assured they're not slipping

29:29around the property tax. Uh they will be

29:33uh have to uh negotiate a property tax

29:36payment. I've been asked about the

29:38moratorum. How is it that these

29:40discussions are going on even though

29:41there's a moratorum in place? Um as I

29:44noted, the county's moratorium will be

29:46lifted and that's where they'll be

29:47filing their application. that'll be

29:49lifted month a month or two before

29:51they're even ready to file. So in in

29:54many ways when I told this developer

29:57about the moratorum they just shrugged

29:58and said that's okay. We've got a lot of

30:00homework yet to do. So that'll be out of

30:02the way. We aren't sort of cheating the

30:04moratorum. Um it's important though that

30:07they follow up with the power companies

30:09whe with EverG um because they need to

30:13get that homework done or there's no

30:14application.

30:17Um they are exploring alternative

30:20sources of water and possibly ways to

30:22discharge that water in light of the

30:23city's moratorum. They're not trying to

30:25sneak around any of it, but as a

30:27business they're looking at their

30:28alternatives. Um so just being open

30:32about that. That's the effect of the

30:34morator. They are in place. So what are

30:37the benefits of this project?

30:40First of all, it is the airport's job to

30:45take these assets, some of the most

30:47valuable real estate, generally

30:49speaking, functionally speaking, in the

30:51county, and and ring as much economic

30:53value out of it as we can. That's our

30:55job. And this development will be

30:59located in a part of our airfield that

31:00currently is basically barren. You can

31:03see that there's almost nothing down

31:04there, just some trailers and they do

31:06some fire training down there. If we can

31:08turn this property into rent producing

31:10property,

31:11it's a win for the authority and for all

31:14of our shareholders who are the

31:16taxpayers of Shauny County. Remember I

31:18said that the developer was going to pay

31:20for all those utilities. Now, this is a

31:22rough schematic. Don't don't pin too

31:24much on this. I drew this with

31:25PowerPoint, but it gives you the idea

31:28that if the developer pays for a road to

31:31get to this property and gets the other

31:33utilities out there. See, currently

31:35we've got like 400 acres out there that

31:36I can't even really market. It doesn't

31:38make any sense for me to go to, say,

31:40Boeing and say, "Hey, would you like to

31:42come build a big hanger south at the

31:45south end of our airport?" Because there

31:47would be a couple million dollar price

31:49tag at least to make such a structure

31:52viable out there. Well, if this

31:53developer comes along and gets the

31:55utilities as far as their site, it makes

31:58it plausible for us to open up the other

32:01300 acres and invite much more exciting

32:04types of development down on that part

32:06of our airfield. From our point of view,

32:08this development could turn a key that

32:10opens up hundreds of acres that

32:13currently really aren't we're not able

32:15to market. And again, I want to be clear

32:17that even though

32:20um I don't want to create the impression

32:21that that anyone at the county has

32:23entered an agreement on this, but the

32:26policy position has been made crystal

32:28clear to me and I in turn to the

32:31developer that they will be required to

32:33pay something equivalent to the property

32:35taxes they would otherwise be required

32:37to pay if if we were assessed property

32:40taxes. So the the taxpayers of Shauny

32:43County will benefit from this. I'm not

32:45going to make any claims about how much

32:46it'll make our bills go down. Haven't

32:49really done the math. I don't know. But

32:51this will benefit all of the taxpayers

32:53in Shauny County. [clears throat] So,

32:55those are all the reasons. The

32:56technology has changed, the facts have

32:59changed, and for those reasons, uh, the

33:02MTA

33:04and its board are

33:06pursuing this opportunity. Whether it

33:08will happen is way too early to tell,

33:10but we think it's worth exploring. And

33:14I'm happy to be with you here to share

33:16with you what we're trying to do. And

33:18I'm open to your questions now.

33:22>> All right. I'm going to open up to the

33:23city council here in just a minute. I'm

33:24going to make a comment before and this

33:26won't be anything new to Curtis. When I

33:27heard about this, I called him right

33:29away and partly why he's here. But um

33:32you made the comment that there's a lot

33:34of questions you're not going to be able

33:35to answer. But the truth is they can

33:38answer a lot of these questions and and

33:39I I Curtis, I like you. You know that. I

33:41trust you. We've worked together on many

33:43things through the years. You've never

33:44led me astray. So, this isn't about you.

33:46And I want to make that very clear. I

33:49I've said this many times and these

33:50companies continue to ignore this to

33:52their own detriment, I guess, to some

33:54degree. And they've made this process

33:55harder. I don't know if it's ego. I

33:57don't know if it's hubris. I don't know

33:59if it's just being disrespectful. But at

34:02some point, these companies have got to

34:04come into this community, tell us who

34:07they are, tell us what it is they want

34:09to build, and set some level of

34:12expectations for us and give us the

34:14opportunity to have this conversation

34:15with them. And to date, everybody who's

34:18pecked around these data centers in our

34:20community has simply not done that. And

34:23so trust only happens when people sit

34:25right there and you can look them in the

34:27eye and have a conversation and get the

34:29answers and information that you need.

34:30Even if I don't like it, at least we can

34:32have that conversation and build a

34:33rapport. And and I don't it's not about

34:36me really. It is about doing that with

34:38this community so that they can have

34:41their questions answered and they can

34:42hear it directly from them. And we're

34:44just not getting that. We haven't gotten

34:46that with the one company fully that's

34:48that's trying to build one. And I mean,

34:50you stand here and I appreciate it, but

34:52we don't even know their name. We don't

34:54even know their name, Curtis. That

34:57that's hard for me to sit here on behalf

34:59of the citizens of Topeka and say that

35:01that's okay. So, I hope they're watching

35:03tonight. And if not, I hope you can take

35:05that message back that it's really hard

35:08to have these conversations with our

35:10community when they're not having them

35:12with the community. And that is I feel,

35:14and I've said this before, I don't care

35:16whether it's a data center. I don't care

35:17whether it's a big industrial park or a

35:19big indust if you want to be a partner

35:21in our community and you're going to ask

35:22for some things from us. We the people

35:25should have a basic expectation of who

35:27you are and what exactly you want to do.

35:29And so I'm just going to put that out

35:30there again for the hundth time as we

35:32started these data center conversations

35:33over the last year and hope that maybe

35:36they're listening and can be a little

35:37more proactive if this even has a chance

35:40so at least the citizens can can have

35:41those opportunities.

35:42>> May I may I pull on one thread there? I

35:46don't think I've heard a more fair

35:49explanation of the situation. Um,

35:52congratulations. That was I agree. Um, I

35:56can tell you that uh

36:01again this is in such preliminary stages

36:03that the the firm we're working with

36:07there there there is no

36:10conversation really to be had until they

36:12know they've got the power. And I've

36:14been,

36:16trust me, well, you don't have to trust

36:17me. I'm just going to tell you that I've

36:19been, every time I talk to them, I say

36:21the day will come when you need to get

36:22out here and you need to be meeting

36:24people and we're going to be open about

36:26this. Um, that will come, but it's

36:29premature until they know that the the

36:32power is going to be there. If it's not

36:33going to be there, then this won't

36:35happen and it will have been a waste of

36:37everybody's time. I'm here because I

36:39want to make sure to the extent possible

36:41the drapes are open, the identity of the

36:43firm.

36:47>> No, I got you. I

36:49>> But thank you. I'm I frankly couldn't

36:51agree more with what you're saying.

36:53>> All right, Council Member Kell.

36:56[clears throat]

36:56>> I agree agree with the uh mayor on

36:59working with you, Curtis. I you've done

37:01a great job here in the city for for

37:03years in different capacities, but um I

37:05I agree with the mayor. We need people

37:07here. We need them on the record. And

37:09that's the problem is I've even emailed

37:11some of these companies, put the media

37:13on there, said reply all so it's on the

37:15record and I get no replies. I don't get

37:18a reply just to me without the media

37:20involved in. So that's what we up here

37:24want. That's what the citizens want. We

37:25want people on the record to tell us

37:26what's going on 100% so we can hold them

37:29accountable.

37:31Um you me mentioned when the moratoriums

37:34are lifted. That's if they're lifted. We

37:35can extend them. you're you're talking

37:37about that well this one year for us or

37:39the 6 months for the county those always

37:41can be extended. So, uh you got to kind

37:44of look at that. Um not not a fan of

37:47some of your examples up there. I a golf

37:49course that that water is returned to

37:52the earth that goes back into the into

37:54the you know water table goes back into

37:56the the ponds that go into the streams

37:58that go into the river. So that water is

38:00returned to the earth. So kind of compl

38:03comparing those two things are are kind

38:04of off.

38:06Now noise that's one thing I have not

38:08gotten an answer on. I we get well it's

38:10around this range but okay what happens

38:12whichever G has said when they were here

38:15we will tell them if we need to cut

38:17their power how much how much are those

38:19generators going to how much noise is

38:21that going to cause and like you said

38:23you know some of these old ones sound

38:25like a chainsaw was on your on your

38:27front porch.

38:29So, I know a diesel generator is not

38:32quite. So, that's one thing we need we

38:35need answers to on that. And you kind of

38:38like, oh, here's a plane. Here's a

38:39helicopter on your chart. That's for a

38:41very finite amount of time compared to

38:43what a data center would do. I was just

38:45down in Branson helicopters, you know,

38:48three different helicopter pads right on

38:50the strip in Branson.

38:51They're up and once they're gone about

38:54100 ft away, you barely even notice

38:55them. So, it's one of those things of

38:58your comparisons are kind of they're a

39:00way to kind of shield the main concern

39:03of people and we don't even know really

39:06what also what what's with this being an

39:08airfield what damage this might do to

39:12being the airfield with radar with

39:14communications.

39:16Uh I've noticed since a lot of stuff has

39:18happened between here and Kansas City

39:20with different projects certain radio

39:23stations I can't even get in can't even

39:24get in anymore.

39:26Uh so

39:28there's once they went up operational my

39:31signal went away. So what's what's going

39:33to be the the issue there and what

39:36decision is going to be made then when

39:38okay we're we're making all this money

39:40but do we shut down the airfield now

39:42because we can't really use the airfield

39:44because of the radar and the

39:45communication aspects of things. So, uh,

39:48we need to really look into that aspect,

39:51uh, because technology is always

39:53evolving and if if we have to choose one

39:56or the other, uh, you know, we've been

39:58trying to throw money at the MTA for

40:01years to try to get things going to that

40:03big scale that's always talked about,

40:05but if the data center throws that in

40:08the trash, then what will we do all

40:09these years? Well, I don't want to

40:11interrupt you, but if it came to pass

40:13that this was going to materially

40:18really interfere with our air traffic,

40:21it would be over. So, um, none of our

40:26research to date suggests that there's

40:28any adverse effect on our functioning as

40:30an airport. If it turns out that that's

40:33a problem, this conversation will be

40:35over. We have the exact same priorities

40:38on that. And before you even mentioned

40:40the the tax thing, I had it written

40:41down. It was one of those things of I

40:44knew you weren't taxing prop your

40:46property tax didn't happen out there.

40:48And my theory is you talk about pilots.

40:51Well, the state house has talked about

40:53getting rid of franchise fees. What if

40:55they get rid of pilots? Now we have

40:56someone sitting out there with nothing.

40:59I I'd want something more in a contract

41:01that sits there and says, "This is what

41:03you're going to pay every year with a

41:05bump of 3%, 4%, whatever." something

41:08more like that before I even see

41:10anything. Like, you know, I'd be against

41:11against something like that with a pilot

41:13because there's so much we have control

41:15over and then there's so much that the

41:17state house has control over us on what

41:19we can and can't do. And I could see

41:21something like that where someone's

41:22paying $10 million in pilots to turn

41:24around and go to the state house, pay

41:27pay a million dollars out, and save that

41:28pilot money every year. So, um I would

41:31definitely

41:32>> want to see how things are. You know,

41:35they're they're playing a game. We got

41:37to learn how to play the game back if we

41:38were even to talk about this. But right

41:39now, you know, we have our moratorum.

41:42We're we're doing this as a learning

41:44experience and learn as much as we can.

41:46But a lot of us up here are against it.

41:47And I know we probably have zero say on

41:49what you can and can't do out there on

41:52certain property areas and things like

41:53that. But uh it's one of those things of

41:58I know that right now I'm against it and

42:01and it's it's hard to sit here and have

42:04constantly when everyone wants to come

42:06to us that we have to answer questions

42:08too on something we really don't even

42:09have power over and um

42:13it's it definitely needs to be looked at

42:15really hard before before you say yes

42:17because you are a taxing entity of of

42:19these people so you need to do what's

42:22best for them. Thank you,

42:25>> Council Member Vald Deiv Alkala.

42:28>> Thank you. Can you hear me?

42:29>> Yep, we can hear you. Great.

42:31>> Okay. Thank you. Um, first I want to say

42:33I cannot even say how much I agree with

42:37Mayor Duncan on everything that he said.

42:40This is not meant to be rude to any

42:43entity individual that has come to the

42:46forefront instead of these data centers.

42:49But what they are expecting because of

42:51how they are used to being treated which

42:54is to me kid gloves cart wash

42:59all of that they want water carriers

43:02that's what they want and that's exactly

43:04what's happening here that's what's

43:06happening with compass data I'm sure

43:09that's happening with the other ones

43:10that are happening across the state they

43:12want water carriers to do their work

43:15instead of having a common respect of

43:17coming into a community [clears throat]

43:20and I will say a a couple of other

43:23things when it comes to

43:27uh

43:28don't have any input. I think in some

43:30ways we do have some input because we

43:36dominate so many board members out there

43:41and I mean that is the leverage to use

43:44as well. So, if this game is going to be

43:47played in the way that it is seeming to

43:51me it's going to be played, then it's

43:54going to in in in my way of thinking

43:58because I have so many doubts about all

44:00of this that it's going to have to be

44:03played politically as well because that

44:06seems to be what this boils down to.

44:10This is not any casting any dispersions

44:14towards you, Curtis. This is just really

44:16being honest. You're being honest. I'm

44:19being The other point about this is when

44:21we talk about pilots and I can verify

44:25secondary sources, pilots are often

44:31way below what the property tax would

44:33have been paid. So, I think we cannot be

44:35disingenuous about that. And I

44:38understand that's going to be different

44:40across different parts of different

44:42states across the country. But there are

44:45some articles I was looking at where

44:47pilots are 50% 65% up to 85% at times

44:54less than the property tax uh that would

44:57be paid. So I think we also have to keep

45:00that in mind as far as when it you know

45:03you saying there is a lot of these

45:06questions that you cannot answer. Um, to

45:10me, I know you're not being

45:13disrespectful. You're you're doing what

45:15you can. But to me, if they can come,

45:19they being the data centers with all of

45:21these folks to come forth and do their

45:23bidding, then all of the research that

45:27these average folks are doing

45:31deserve to have their questions answered

45:33as soon as possible, not when the ball

45:37starts rolling for them. The people have

45:40been doing their homework now. And there

45:44are a couple of questions that I am

45:46going to ask. If you cannot answer them,

45:49then maybe somebody from whoever it is,

45:52this mystery entity, maybe when they

45:55rewatch this, they can write it down and

45:57consider it to to possibly answer. Um

46:02there was concern that a constitu

46:04constituents brought forth about that

46:08this is actually hypers scale because

46:11the city of Topeka's planning board gave

46:14thoughts on this at their planning

46:16commission gave thoughts on this at

46:17their last meeting stating that anything

46:20over 50 megawws was hypers scale. They

46:25are now deliberating even lower. There

46:28was confusion with the two buildings

46:30that you're talking about and then

46:33possibly an addition of two more

46:36buildings whether each building was that

46:4070 to 80 megawws or whether that was

46:43going to be the whole queue or the whole

46:46floor. So there was ambiguity around

46:49that. And I don't know if that's

46:51something that you can answer now or

46:53something that you would need to find

46:55out from them since they're now in the

46:58process of working with EverG.

47:00>> Well,

47:02keeping in mind that the thing has yet

47:05to be designed and the specifics have

47:06yet to be stitch stitched together, uh

47:10the the understanding was that that

47:12first phase, the two buildings would

47:15consume between 70 and 80 megawws.

47:20the tube.

47:21>> Yeah. And then and then I suppose it

47:23would be accurate to say that if they

47:25follow through on that expansion

47:28>> then I again it hasn't been designed but

47:30I assume that would be another 70 to 80

47:32megawatts. But

47:34>> well then they might want to know based

47:36on how they classify themselves about

47:38what the city of Topeka planning

47:41commission is stating.

47:42>> Okay. that determines hypers scale or

47:45not because language is power. Language

47:49flect uh language can muddy the waters

47:52incredibly or make things crystal clear.

47:55So I don't think you would do that

47:57Curtis, but do I think most data centers

48:00would? Yeah,

48:02>> I think that they would they would muddy

48:04as much as they could.

48:05>> Okay. Um the other question that is on

48:09here is you acknowledge that you don't

48:11know who the ultimate tenant will be big

48:14tech firms like MA Google etc. If we

48:18don't know who is moving in how can the

48:20city or county accurately validate their

48:23track record on community environmental

48:26impacts. Now

48:28I you're not you're telling us that you

48:31don't know, right?

48:33>> Right. So

48:35>> yeah,

48:35>> go ahead.

48:36>> Well, I want to make sure I'm tracking

48:37with you. I think the answer is yes

48:39either way, but no, we don't know who

48:41the ultimate end user or the client

48:44would be. I don't think the developer

48:46does yet.

48:48>> Um and if you're asking about the track

48:50record, then obviously that can't be

48:52known either. What I can tell you is

48:54that um the the language in our letter

48:57of intent which if this goes forward

49:00will be codified in in the lease we

49:03would be writing up is very clear about

49:06um the necessity of you know using those

49:10low impact technologies and minimizing

49:13their impact on the surrounding

49:15environment and that would hold for the

49:17initial developer and anyone else who

49:20uses the center. That's as clo that's as

49:23much detail as I can provide you on

49:25those questions.

49:27>> So, thank you for that. Thank you for as

49:29much clarity as you could. But anybody

49:32that understands and and I'm going to

49:34cor, you know, put this alongside with

49:37JO. I was a voting member one year out

49:40of almost serving seven years on JO.

49:43Everything, all of the uh projects,

49:47you're not told. you're just a leap of

49:51faith and then you vote yes or no on

49:54giving money, taxpayer money. But

49:58something about this ultimately

50:00somewhere down the road is going to have

50:02to change because as Topekans

50:05and Shauny countians start to understand

50:07more and more about the way government

50:10works, their local government, their

50:12county government, their chamber of

50:14commerce, whatever the case may be,

50:17they're really pissed off and they want

50:20to start knowing more. And because it's

50:23their tax dollars, they should be able

50:25to know more. So this veil of secrecy

50:28that is a very big thing with JAO uh and

50:32you know we still vote on it's a very

50:34big thing with the data centers I that

50:37you can see with the one being up here

50:40about how thin that is wearing with the

50:43people because they deserve to know. I

50:45mean ultimately it's their dollars that

50:47are spent. But the one other thing that

50:50I did want to say, I'm going to go ahead

50:52if it's okay with you and forward all of

50:55these questions to you that came from

50:58folks uh around the city and the county.

51:02If I could for the this came to the full

51:04governing body.

51:04>> Yes.

51:05>> And it came to the mayor. There were a

51:07number of questions. I don't know if

51:08you've received them yet.

51:09>> Um yeah, you're welcome to forward them,

51:11but I I don't know why I'm showing this.

51:13I don't know where the camera is, but uh

51:14I was handed this big stack of

51:16questions, so I think I've got them.

51:18You're welcome to forward them, but I

51:20believe that I've already received that.

51:23>> Okay. And then one more thing I just

51:24want you to let you know the proximity

51:27for the two Pauline schools is about a

51:31mile and a half for one and about 2

51:34miles for the other. And I think that

51:37you already understand how much deep

51:40concern there is for school children in

51:42this whole data

51:44center conundrum that we're in. So, I

51:47just wanted to make you aware of that

51:48and I thank you, Curtis, for taking the

51:50time to come up and thank you, Mayor.

51:52>> Thank you. Thank you. All right, Council

51:54Member McGee.

51:57>> Thank you, Mayor. Um, I'll start out

52:00with a comment and then I've got a

52:02couple of quick questions. Uh, but, uh,

52:05last week I attended the League of M

52:08municipalities conference. They had a

52:10session on hypers scale data centers and

52:14one of the first things they said was if

52:18you're talking to someone representing

52:22a data center or a developer

52:25and they can't tell you who their client

52:28is, that's the first red flag.

52:32You need to know who you're talking to.

52:37it's it's difficult to have a

52:39conversation if you don't know who the

52:40other person is.

52:42So that's that's a first red flag. So

52:46I'm just throwing that out there. Um

52:50the other thing is and you've already

52:52touched upon it. I'm going to give you a

52:54t chance to reinforce your comment here.

52:58You just want to make sure that this

53:00does not interfere with the primary

53:03mission of Forbes or the ability to, you

53:07know, try try and get commercial air

53:10service. Again, I want to make sure that

53:13the

53:14FAA

53:16I I used to be over a general aviation

53:19airport, so I'm not exactly sure on the

53:22terms here, but the FFA restricted zone

53:25cones

53:26>> Mhm. for takeoff and landing,

53:28>> right? The proof surface.

53:29>> These are completely clear of that.

53:31>> Yes.

53:32>> Uh cone

53:34>> on that end of the air airfield.

53:36>> Yes, sir. They are. This is in a part of

53:39the airport that is designated

53:41non-eronautical precisely because it is

53:44not beneath the flight surfaces of

53:46either of those runways. There is a

53:48large area there that has no impact on

53:51those. Okay. Again, again, I go back and

53:54like I said, I'm I'm giving you a chance

53:55to reinforce your earlier comment that

53:58this will not impact the mission of

54:01Forbes or

54:03uh or any opportunities for commercial

54:06air service.

54:08>> We have no reason to see why it would. I

54:12I can tell you that I've spoken to uh

54:14our friends at the 190th. Uh they have

54:17no concerns with it. Uh there are some

54:20frequency questions that need to be the

54:24box needs to be checked to make sure

54:25nobody's interfering with anybody, but

54:28in terms of the radar and all of that,

54:30there's there's

54:32there's nothing to be concerned with

54:34there. If we find out that there is, and

54:36it's worth noting that there will come a

54:39point uh when uh forms need to be filed

54:43with the FAA to make sure they're on

54:45board with this, that if if concerns are

54:48raised by kind of our largest governing

54:50body, if you will, then there again,

54:53this thing probably just goes off the

54:55tracks. There isn't any universe in

54:57which we would jeopardize either the

54:59military mission of the 190th or our

55:02ability to function as an airport simply

55:04to get a data center in. We have no red

55:07flags on that front.

55:10>> Thank you.

55:10>> Thank you,

55:12>> Council Member Bradberry.

55:15>> Thank you. Um thank you Curtis for

55:17coming in and talking in this

55:20presentation. Um, I am just kind of

55:24reiterating everything that um,

55:26Councilwoman Vivia Ala mentioned and

55:29also uh, Council Member Kell.

55:34The idea

55:37that these data centers can come into

55:39our community

55:41and talk about wanting to be a member of

55:44the community and a good partner in the

55:47community and then not show up

55:52is ludicrous.

55:59This is our community, not theirs.

56:02Um, and if they want to be a part of it,

56:05and if they want to,

56:08you know, do all of this that they're

56:10talking about, um,

56:14then they can come and talk to us. They

56:16can come and talk to members of our

56:17community.

56:19Um, I can't stress that enough for you

56:22to share with them. Um,

56:26really, that's not an ask, that's an

56:28expectation

56:29>> that we have. Um it it's not will you

56:32it's you need to

56:34>> I mean that's it's it's very

56:37frustrating.

56:38>> Um

56:40>> and the other thing that I have is what

56:45kind of due diligence is NTAA going to

56:47do with this developer?

56:51How are you going to I mean, how are you

56:54going to find out what work you going to

56:56do to

56:58determine whether or not they're

57:02have a good track record or not? And at

57:06what point in time will the public be

57:09able to see the financial terms of any

57:14agreement?

57:17Well,

57:19in response to an open records request,

57:22I did turn over to one of the concerned

57:26citizens a redacted version of that

57:29letter of intent. I mean, I'm standing

57:32by the fact that we're not the identity

57:35of the firm isn't it's premature, but

57:38the financial terms were in there. Um,

57:41and I be I can share that with you. you

57:43know, we

57:47this is all of our community. I couldn't

57:48agree more. Part of what we're up

57:51against

57:52>> and your your frustration is palpable.

57:54Okay. Um

57:58we've had a discussion that started in

57:59June.

58:02me standing here talking to you about it

58:04now

58:07is probably by most accounts premature

58:10because there is just so much more

58:13homework that has to be done and that's

58:15why the idea that we're not you know

58:17speaking in terms of who the firm is is

58:20so frustratingly aloof

58:22>> but

58:24the reason I'm I'm here I was invited to

58:26be here but also if I were to appear

58:30before you say next February ary

58:33the fair question would be how long you

58:35this been going on and we're just

58:36finding out about it now so there's a

58:38bit of a catch 22 and I'm I'm sorry that

58:41that's so frustrating I've shared with

58:43you as much as I can and as much as I

58:45know and when the first opportunity

58:47presents itself you talk about demanding

58:50to come and see the community you should

58:52be in on some of my phone calls this

58:54guy's tired of me hectoring him to get

58:57out here and uh meet with some NIH meet

59:00with you all, etc. And that will happen.

59:03It's just a different phase of the

59:05process. So, I I hear you loud and

59:07clear, and they will, too. You're

59:09actually helping me tonight cuz when I

59:10call this person tomorrow, they're going

59:12to feel the full force of what the

59:15community is demanding here.

59:17>> Yeah. And and I appreciate that you took

59:20the time to come and talk with us about

59:24this um sooner rather than later. I

59:27think that makes a difference. Um, also,

59:32um,

59:33is as far as water usage goes, and I

59:37know, um, that it seems to be a a

59:42talking point of the data centers that

59:45they use less than a a golf course in

59:49and maybe even less in agriculture.

59:54the

59:56the comparison is apples and oranges. I

59:59mean, agriculture serves a very

1:00:02different purpose um

1:00:05than than a data center. So, um I don't

1:00:08know. I just wanted to to throw

1:00:12that out there. They're they're very

1:00:14different different things um

1:00:18>> with very different impacts.

1:00:22Um,

1:00:22>> do you do you mind if I

1:00:24>> follow up on that just a little bit

1:00:26because Councilman Kale said something

1:00:28similar.

1:00:29>> Um, the comparison to golf courses is a

1:00:32bit of a tired cliche. I sort of regret

1:00:34writing that on the slide. It is true

1:00:37that we have other industrial users

1:00:39around town who use considerably more

1:00:41water than these people are considering.

1:00:43And the water that million gallons that

1:00:45we're talking about is basically for the

1:00:47toilets and the drinking fountains etc.

1:00:49inside the buildings. So it will go into

1:00:53the sewer system in some sense once

1:00:55that's figured out and go back into the

1:00:57earth just like anybody else's water. So

1:01:00I agree. Yeah, this is not farming. This

1:01:03is not a country club. But in terms of

1:01:05that million gallons that we're talking

1:01:06about to be fair, it's the same sort of

1:01:09water that's coming out of most of the

1:01:13other factories or you know large

1:01:14installations in town,

1:01:16>> right? And it's not the same,

1:01:19you know, the impact on the water system

1:01:22is not the same.

1:01:24>> Okay.

1:01:24>> Um,

1:01:26so that's a whole another discussion,

1:01:28but thank you.

1:01:28>> Thank you,

1:01:29>> Council Member Banks.

1:01:32>> Thank you, Curtis, for uh being here

1:01:35tonight and sharing with us. Uh, for the

1:01:38record, I would just like for everyone

1:01:39to know that Curtis is a constituent in

1:01:41my district and we did he did send me a

1:01:46communication back months ago about the

1:01:49endeavor that uh we are talking about

1:01:51tonight. And I want to also be on the

1:01:55record is saying I'm not a supporter of

1:01:57data centers and I've not talked to

1:02:00three people in our district that is. So

1:02:05I know there's a lot of talk about how

1:02:07far this project is out but to me that

1:02:12kind of talk leads to

1:02:15we're just waiting for this moratorum to

1:02:17be over and hope that it doesn't get

1:02:19extended and

1:02:22I know when we talk and I I come to you

1:02:25for support for you always support my

1:02:28efforts in our district and when there

1:02:32are things that are not clear I know I

1:02:34can come to you and get some clarity and

1:02:37this is no different. I think that

1:02:39you'll be as clear as you can be,

1:02:41transparent as you can be. Uh but we up

1:02:45here, we have to look at these people

1:02:48behind you. I'm going to show you what

1:02:50I'm seeing cuz I can see it.

1:02:52>> Mhm.

1:02:54>> That's what I'm seeing behind you.

1:02:57>> And I I know that you're just a

1:02:59messenger. [laughter] And like our mayor

1:03:02said, I don't expect that you would lead

1:03:04us astray. But the concerns for me

1:03:08definitely are the community that lives

1:03:11out there and certainly the kids, the

1:03:13school kids out there. Those parents

1:03:15have been coming to us in groves about

1:03:18how uh the noise level or environmental

1:03:24factors involving those data centers

1:03:26could affect their their kids or even

1:03:30the soil around them.

1:03:32I know that those are things that you

1:03:34can't talk about tonight, but like you

1:03:37reach out to me, why doesn't the county

1:03:40officials reach out to our city

1:03:42officials? I uh when we start projects

1:03:45like this,

1:03:47it should be a collaborative

1:03:49effort [snorts]

1:03:50and we should be making decisions

1:03:53together at least having an opportunity

1:03:55to share information and I'm I'm not

1:03:58seeing that. Uh

1:04:02if we had that, then that would give us

1:04:05a better opportunity to reach out to our

1:04:07constituents and maybe have some clarity

1:04:11through through uh communication.

1:04:14And I know that if that's there, I know

1:04:16that you'll come forth and I don't think

1:04:19that anybody that knows you will think

1:04:21that you're going to lead us astray as

1:04:24our mayor said. So, uh, I just want to

1:04:28let you know how I felt about it, and I

1:04:30appreciate you reaching out to me,

1:04:32although I don't reach out back right

1:04:34away, but I appreciate it.

1:04:36>> Thank you.

1:04:36>> Thank you, Mr. Mayor.

1:04:39>> All right. I see no other questions or

1:04:41comments from the governing body at this

1:04:43time. I want to make sure I'm not

1:04:44missing anybody before I let Curtis go.

1:04:49>> Thank you, sir. I know this will be the

1:04:50first of what I'm guessing will be many

1:04:52conversations. I look forward to that

1:04:55deeper conversation with the individuals

1:04:57if we get to that point.

1:04:59That's going to be a good night with a

1:05:01lot of detail and a lot of questions

1:05:03answered.

1:05:04>> Thanks for being here.

1:05:05>> Thank you.

1:05:08>> All right, with that we move on to our

1:05:10third presentation of the evening. City

1:05:13clerk.

1:05:13>> Um item C is an island annexation

1:05:16overview.

1:05:17>> City manager.

1:05:19>> Thank you, mayor, members of the

1:05:20governing body. This discussion which

1:05:22was deferred from our August 19th

1:05:24special call data center work session.

1:05:26We'll touch on the standard annexation

1:05:28process and detail the process for

1:05:30island annexation. Because this was

1:05:32prepared for the August data work set

1:05:34work session, the briefing will also

1:05:36highlight that we have not received any

1:05:38requests for annexation for the proposed

1:05:39Compass Data Center site. With that,

1:05:42I'll turn this over to Dan Warner,

1:05:43director of planning and development to

1:05:44lead us through this item. Dan,

1:05:47>> thank you. city manager, mayor,

1:05:49governing body, good to see you again.

1:05:52Okay, so this is a relatively brief

1:05:54presentation. Again, this is just about

1:05:57the island annexation process, just a

1:05:59discussion about the process for island

1:06:02annexations. So, a a standard contiguous

1:06:05annexation. So, the typical process that

1:06:08is brought to the governing body for an

1:06:10annexation is a property that's

1:06:12contiguous to the boundary and the

1:06:13owners consented to that annexation. Uh

1:06:16that's a kind of annexation that can be

1:06:18approved by the governing body by

1:06:19adopting an ordinance. You might

1:06:22remember last week uh you approved an

1:06:24annexation at 37th Engage. That's a

1:06:27standard sort of typical annexation that

1:06:29you get. The that owner um

1:06:33consented to that annexation propertyy's

1:06:35contiguous. You just simply approved

1:06:37that ordinance. So what we're talking

1:06:40about now is the island annexation which

1:06:43is a much different process. Um so the

1:06:45property in question for the Compass

1:06:47data center um is contiguous to an

1:06:50island of the city. So the Mars property

1:06:52and the Walmart out there uh that's an

1:06:54island annex that was approved as an

1:06:56island annexation a long time ago. Um so

1:06:59that is so any property that's

1:07:01contiguous to an existing island of the

1:07:03city must be annexed through the island

1:07:05annexation process.

1:07:14>> [snorts]

1:07:15>> So all annexation process is different.

1:07:18So first part of that is the owner must

1:07:22petition the city or provide written

1:07:25consent to the annexation. So that's the

1:07:26first thing that has to happen. uh the

1:07:29governing body adopts a resolution

1:07:31requesting that the Shauny that Shauny

1:07:32County determine that the annexation

1:07:35will not inhibit the growth or

1:07:36development of the surrounding area or

1:07:38any other incorporated city within the

1:07:40county. That's the standard that's set

1:07:43out in statute. County Commission would

1:07:46have to pass a resolution finding that

1:07:48the annexation of land would not

1:07:50prohibit the growth or development of

1:07:51the area or that any other incorporated

1:07:53or any other incorporated city located

1:07:55within the county. And then if approved

1:07:57by the county, the governing body would

1:07:59have to pass an ordinance to approve the

1:08:00annexation. So just to restate that

1:08:03process again a little more simply and

1:08:06the where the governing body has

1:08:08decision points to make in this process.

1:08:09So if the property owner petitions the

1:08:12city for annexation, that's the first

1:08:14step. The governing body can then decide

1:08:17to adopt a resolution requesting Shauny

1:08:20County answer those questions. Provided

1:08:22the county does that and adopts their

1:08:24resolution. um finding that they that

1:08:27those concerns are met or aren't met,

1:08:31which however you look at it, um then

1:08:33the next step for the city then or the

1:08:35governing body, uh if they choose to do

1:08:37so, would be uh pass an ordinance to

1:08:39approve the annexation. So the first

1:08:41step for the governing body is to adopt

1:08:43a resolution asking the county to do

1:08:45these things. And if you get that back

1:08:47from the county in a positive manner,

1:08:49then the governing body would have to

1:08:51pass an ordinance to approve the

1:08:53annexation.

1:08:56And as the city man city manager

1:08:58mentioned, uh we have not received any

1:09:00petition or written consent from the

1:09:02property owner regarding the compass

1:09:04campus. So with that, myself and others

1:09:09will be happy to try to answer any

1:09:10questions.

1:09:12>> All right. Comments or questions from

1:09:13the governing body? Council member

1:09:15Valdivia Alkala.

1:09:18>> Thank you, Mayor. Um, I understand this

1:09:21has probably been on the agenda and on

1:09:23the radar for some time. I'm just going

1:09:25to say I believe it's for form to be

1:09:28having this annexation dialogue even

1:09:30though it's just dialogue while we have

1:09:32the [cough] moratorum. And I'm just

1:09:34going to say if we're going to be

1:09:35bumping things this much ahead by

1:09:38talking about it that I think that it is

1:09:40uh shameful almost that you know I know

1:09:43that there's a lot of thinking about

1:09:45annexing island annexation but yet what

1:09:49are we saying about Montana where their

1:09:51water rates are so high where they are

1:09:54basically abandoned in many ways in code

1:09:57compliance their code compliance not

1:09:59ours and this would be island annexation

1:10:03would be something that I would never

1:10:04support. Thank you, mayor.

1:10:06>> Thank you.

1:10:09Any other comments or questions from the

1:10:11governing body?

1:10:16>> Don't think so. I do appreciate I think

1:10:18it's important for under everyone to

1:10:19understand the distinctions between

1:10:20annexations. I will tell everyone I

1:10:22fundamentally have concerns with any

1:10:24type of island annexation. I think that

1:10:26annexation as a whole should always be

1:10:28taken seriously because it's it impacts

1:10:30people who live in the county versus

1:10:31who've chosen not to live in the city,

1:10:33which is why we actually have a pretty

1:10:34good track record as a city. In fact, I

1:10:37looked recently at like our last 10

1:10:39years of annexation and it's very

1:10:40minimal and it's always been only when

1:10:42requested. We have not done any hostile

1:10:45annexation. Um, so I plan to I think we

1:10:48maintain that track record, but I also

1:10:50think island annexation traditionally is

1:10:53viewed as sort of a more hostile

1:10:54annexation because you're kind of taking

1:10:56what you want without taking what you

1:10:58probably should or need to take if

1:11:00you're really going to make that

1:11:01commitment. And so I've always

1:11:03fundamentally had just some personal

1:11:04issues with island annexation. So if

1:11:07this ever came up, I think to council

1:11:09member's point, there will be other

1:11:11considerations. And again, the county

1:11:13will have a say in that. if they don't

1:11:14want us to do something, they they don't

1:11:16have to on an island annexation. So, I

1:11:18do think it's important to have this

1:11:19quick presentation. I just so everyone

1:11:21understands the difference between those

1:11:22annexations and then wanted to make my

1:11:24concerns with the concept also known

1:11:27this evening. So,

1:11:30anything else? All right. With that,

1:11:33we move on to the consent agenda.

1:11:37City clerk.

1:11:39>> A is approval of a three-year labor

1:11:41contract between the city of Topeka and

1:11:43ASME council 61 local 1294 water

1:11:46division. And B is approval of the 2027

1:11:48special alcohol and drug funding

1:11:50recommendations in an amount of

1:11:51$865,924.

1:11:54B are minutes of the regular meeting of

1:11:56October 6, 2026. And there are no

1:11:59applications.

1:12:01All right, we have a motion to approve

1:12:02from council member Kell and it's been

1:12:05seconded by Hey, there we go. Council

1:12:08member McGee.

1:12:10The clerk would take the vote, please.

1:12:21>> Maybe.

1:12:23[laughter]

1:12:24>> There we go.

1:12:26>> Council member Hiller.

1:12:35Can you hear me? Yes.

1:12:36>> Now I can. Yes. And council member

1:12:38Valdivia Aqua, you got it.

1:12:40>> Okay.

1:12:40>> Gotcha.

1:12:42>> Did you get my vote, Brenda?

1:12:43>> I did just now. Thank you.

1:12:45>> Okay. The app is being squirly.

1:12:47Apologies.

1:12:48>> No worries. Got it. Um the we have 10

1:12:51yes. The motion carries.

1:12:54>> All right. With that, we will move on to

1:12:57our non-action items. Non-action item A,

1:13:01city clerk.

1:13:02>> A is discussion related to the city of

1:13:04Topeka FY2026 strategic goals and

1:13:06priorities and discuss future plans for

1:13:08developing an FY2027 to 2030 strategic

1:13:12plan with the University of Kansas.

1:13:15>> City manager.

1:13:17>> Thank you, mayor, members of the

1:13:18governing body. In this discuss in the

1:13:20in this discussion which was deferred

1:13:22from last week's agenda due to the size

1:13:24of the agenda. We will provide an update

1:13:26on the FY26 strategic goals and discuss

1:13:29development of our FY27 strategic goals.

1:13:32Additionally, this presentation will

1:13:33touch on the points of the earlier

1:13:34strategic plan item as requested and is

1:13:37shared in the presentation as well as

1:13:39the September 11th memorandum I sent to

1:13:41the governing body. Once we determine

1:13:43the five to7 FY2027 strategic goals,

1:13:47staff and I will update the governing

1:13:48body on a monthly basis on these goals

1:13:50as well as our financials and

1:13:52departmental performance measures as

1:13:54part of a budget account accountability

1:13:56report. I intend to bring that reports

1:13:58to the third council meeting of each

1:14:00month beginning in February 2027.

1:14:02January will be a review of the report

1:14:04format and plan, budget and goals for

1:14:05FY27. Uh with that, I will lead us

1:14:08through this presentation.

1:14:14So, as mentioned agenda, we'll talk

1:14:16about uh our status of our FY26

1:14:18strategic goals. We'll discuss uh five

1:14:21strategic goals for 27 that I've

1:14:23identified. Um being that you've asked

1:14:25for five to seven goals for 27. I'll

1:14:28I'll seek your feedback on those five

1:14:29and also ask you for additional goals to

1:14:32be considered for FY27.

1:14:34Again, uh we'll briefly go over the 20

1:14:3627 through FY23 strategic plan. Again,

1:14:39we were supposed to give this

1:14:40presentation last week, so it was going

1:14:41to be a little teaser for the KU uh uh

1:14:44discussion this evening, and then we'll

1:14:46talk about next steps. So, for our 26

1:14:49goals, um we looked at uh a way to

1:14:52streamline our customer service

1:14:53experience through consolidated 311 call

1:14:56center. Today, if somebody wants to

1:14:58connect to a city service, they have to

1:14:59do the 785368311,

1:15:03which is great. If you're here, you know

1:15:04that number. Uh generally in other

1:15:06municipalities there's an opportunity to

1:15:08just call 311. So basically you have 911

1:15:10for emergency and 301 for uh general

1:15:14information and to connect to a city. Uh

1:15:16again our our number is 785368

1:15:193111. So I'm just hoping to try to

1:15:22consolidate that and streamline that

1:15:23into a 311 call center. We have looked

1:15:26at what it would take to do that. I will

1:15:28tell you there have to be a financial um

1:15:30investment into that system. Um so again

1:15:34um we've done an initial evaluation. So

1:15:36just want to let you know where we're at

1:15:37with at where we're at with that. Two is

1:15:40activate the 1.1 or 1.2 million in the

1:15:42affordable housing trust fund. Uh we've

1:15:44activated those dollars. Uh we've made

1:15:46two um two awards that we've move on to

1:15:50the development agreement with. Did uh

1:15:52note here the Wyel property uh that uh

1:15:55we weren't able to move forward with.

1:15:57Um, as mentioned in previous

1:15:58discussions, uh, the remaining $650,000,

1:16:02um, the affordable housing trust fund

1:16:04committee is looking at, uh, putting out

1:16:06an RFP for smaller, um, smaller, uh,

1:16:09development projects or smaller, uh,

1:16:11reinvestment projects. I anticipate that

1:16:13probably happening in the beginning of

1:16:14next year.

1:16:16Um, we did look at and we discussed uh,

1:16:18some of this last week with our bill for

1:16:20zero um, for our unhoused population.

1:16:24And so some of the initiatives that

1:16:25we're looking at, again, we'll talk

1:16:27about it here in a little bit, uh, with

1:16:28the potential sales tax is, uh, looking

1:16:30at an option to develop a one-stop shop,

1:16:33a lober shelter or tiny or tiny home

1:16:35community. Uh, and then, uh, in addition

1:16:37to the all hands- on deck and the bill

1:16:39for zero efforts, uh, we've also

1:16:41considered a Topeka first policy for

1:16:43unhoused individuals. Essentially, what

1:16:45we would look to do, uh, is to have an

1:16:47internal policy, uh, where we serve

1:16:49Topeka, Topeka residents, Shauny County

1:16:52residents first. Um and then um again

1:16:55help uh folks who are new to the

1:16:57community um uh with their homeless

1:17:00services. But again the focus will be on

1:17:02uh Topeka residents and Shny County

1:17:04Shauny County residents first.

1:17:07Uh Hotel Topeka uh did that earlier this

1:17:10year. Uh very grateful to Braxton as

1:17:12leadership and getting that done and

1:17:13council's leadership and helping us to

1:17:15get uh a good developer on board for

1:17:17that. Um so Mr. Arnold and I think we

1:17:20sent out an update not too long ago. Mr.

1:17:22Arnold uh has been doing a lot of

1:17:25refinishing on a lot of the first floor

1:17:27uh conference rooms and uh amenities

1:17:30there uh beginning early next year. I

1:17:32think he's going to start taking a two

1:17:34floor at a time approach to update the

1:17:38uh the uh rooms uh throughout the hotel.

1:17:40I think he hopes to complete uh by uh

1:17:43midsummer of next year on those updates.

1:17:45I will tell you that I think he shared

1:17:47with us that uh uh they are working very

1:17:50hard to get a lot of uh business coming

1:17:51back to Hotel Topeka. So excited about

1:17:53that. Uh number five, develop a digital

1:17:56kiosk program. Um so this is something

1:17:58we talked about uh last year. Uh

1:18:00essentially uh these are interactive

1:18:03kiosk. I have to give a lot of credit to

1:18:05Jason Trion and his team for getting

1:18:06these uh in place. As a reminder, we

1:18:09worked with a vendor uh to come in and

1:18:11put these in at their cost to to do the

1:18:13operator maintenance on their cost. Uh

1:18:16and then essentially those screens uh

1:18:20when they're not being used will

1:18:21basically uh cycle through um uh

1:18:25advertising. Um so these are a couple of

1:18:27examples. Uh one that we have right

1:18:29there in front of the Cyrus. Uh one that

1:18:31we have at Red uh Red Bub Park at NTO.

1:18:34We also have a third kiosk uh that is at

1:18:36EverGy Plaza. Um so again, while I I

1:18:39thank Jason and his team for doing this

1:18:41and working on this, uh definitely want

1:18:43to give a shout out to our uh downtown

1:18:45Tika Inc. partners and the stakeholders

1:18:49uh there at Enoto uh for getting these

1:18:51installed. So excited about uh this this

1:18:54program.

1:18:56Um so we also uh implemented our

1:18:59electric vehicle pilot program. Uh this

1:19:01year we brought in a total of six EVs.

1:19:04Um I think that especially with the

1:19:06rising gas costs right now, uh I think

1:19:08that these have been very beneficial to

1:19:10us. Um they are operational. I believe

1:19:12that they are working in our uh

1:19:15construction inspections, our housing,

1:19:17and I believe in our fire inspections

1:19:20group. Um so just you know that those

1:19:22are out there. Uh seven, strengthen our

1:19:25city's partnership with ASHT to advance

1:19:27our mental health court and

1:19:28collaboration uh with PD, fire uh andou

1:19:32is being developed uh with them going

1:19:34into 2027.

1:19:37Uh converting to digital ticketing. Uh

1:19:39this one today, our police officers

1:19:41actually hand out paper tickets. Um, and

1:19:44so it is a bit of an administrative

1:19:46challenge taking the paper tickets,

1:19:48giving them to our court clerks, um, and

1:19:52having manual entry into our court

1:19:54system. Uh, our customers, as much as I

1:19:58I don't like to call them customers cuz

1:19:59they're getting a parking ticket or

1:20:01tickets. Um, right now, our folks have

1:20:03to call in to get a court date. Uh, by

1:20:06doing this conversion to digital

1:20:07ticketing, our officers will still be

1:20:09able to give a paper copy, but it's all

1:20:11it's all going to be computerized. uh

1:20:13they will actually be able to get their

1:20:14court date uh there uh when they're

1:20:16getting their ticket. Um and then

1:20:18hopefully this should reduce a lot of

1:20:20the manual input on our um on our courts

1:20:23team. Uh as well as and I'm not saying

1:20:26it happens, but in the event that uh

1:20:28tickets uh aren't turned in, uh it'll

1:20:31basically eliminate a lot of that uh

1:20:33opportunity. Um so uh we are working on

1:20:37this. Um and again, I do believe by Q2

1:20:40of 27 we'll have that in place.

1:20:43uh strength strengthen our external law

1:20:44enforcement partnerships. Uh Chief Vjo

1:20:47has done a great job um with like this

1:20:50group, the training advisory council uh

1:20:52and the community police and advisory

1:20:53committee um working on a lot of our

1:20:56policy reform. Uh this is the group that

1:20:59uh or these are the groups that helped

1:21:00us look at even things like uh our uh

1:21:04our release of body cam footage. Um so

1:21:07definitely hats off to the team. Uh the

1:21:09team's working on that uh complete the

1:21:12fire station relocation plan. Um so with

1:21:15the uh fire commission uh coming on

1:21:17board later this month, the team and I

1:21:19are planning for a Wednesday a first

1:21:22meeting Wednesday uh October 28th. Um

1:21:27and so uh we're looking at the holiday

1:21:29building uh probably about 6:00. Um, so

1:21:32I know that the the mayor has reached

1:21:33out for commission meeting our

1:21:36commission members and so I just just

1:21:38want to make sure that we have that date

1:21:39out and you have that for for your

1:21:41records. Um, evaluate the feasibility of

1:21:44a rental registry program. Uh, team and

1:21:46I have been working on on that. Uh, we

1:21:49um have been over the last few months

1:21:51since our July presentation

1:21:54um, we've been refining what that

1:21:56program could look like. I do anticipate

1:21:59us to have discussions next month. the

1:22:01two meetings in November uh with council

1:22:04consideration um in December of this

1:22:07year

1:22:09uh review and refine our short-term

1:22:10rental ordinances to ensure that we're

1:22:12tracking to collect our TGT collections.

1:22:15Uh Braxton let me know that we've

1:22:16actually completed this. Um I believe

1:22:18there's been discussions uh to to that

1:22:21effect uh develop and continue uh

1:22:24support a local or support a legislative

1:22:26agenda uh with focus on inspections and

1:22:28local control. Council actually approved

1:22:30the um the legislative agenda uh last

1:22:35week. Uh Kel Braxton and I um Kell Beam,

1:22:39our legislative lobbyist, uh Braxton,

1:22:42the team and I will be meeting here in

1:22:44the next week um to uh start discussing

1:22:46the early outreach to our Shauny County

1:22:49delegation uh on our legislative agenda.

1:22:54Uh develop a sustainable multi-year

1:22:55budget for 27. Uh I think that we've had

1:22:58a lot of robust discussion uh to include

1:23:01a 5-year financial forecast earlier this

1:23:03year uh and that uh again our our budget

1:23:07that was adopted on the 15th uh is

1:23:09actually balanced for 27 and again I

1:23:12think we'll continue having discussions

1:23:13into 28 and and moving forward and this

1:23:16will be one of the items that we'll

1:23:18discuss in a future [clears throat]

1:23:19slide here in a second and then develop

1:23:22a multi-year uh utility rate schedule uh

1:23:24which we completed uh earlier this here

1:23:26as well.

1:23:29So, as far as what I would like to see

1:23:30us move forward with, and again, this is

1:23:32subject to uh your input. Um, and then

1:23:35also adding a couple as we're looking to

1:23:38to basically track five to seven of

1:23:40these next year. Again, continue with

1:23:42the converting to uh digital ticketing.

1:23:45Um, lead department will be it on that.

1:23:48Um, develop a climate action plan. Uh I

1:23:50know that one of the things that we've

1:23:51talked about with the uh Tikica

1:23:53sustainability advisory board has been

1:23:55to actually develop a sustainability uh

1:23:58plan uh or climate action plan. Um there

1:24:01are a number of things such as the EV

1:24:03pilot that we've already done uh that I

1:24:05would look to expand into uh future

1:24:08years as part of a broader uh climate

1:24:11action plan. I definitely want to uh

1:24:14work alongside the sustainability board

1:24:16as we do that. Um, as mentioned,

1:24:18completing the fire station relocation

1:24:20plan. Uh, one of the things that that

1:24:22I've mentioned, uh, is in addition to

1:24:24the actual locations, I'm hoping that,

1:24:27uh, the commission can also discuss

1:24:29recommendations on funding options to

1:24:31include either sales tax initiative or,

1:24:34um, or bonding. So, um,

1:24:38and then develop a sustainable two-year

1:24:40budget. So moving forward, uh do want to

1:24:43again revise our FY28 through 2032

1:24:465-year financial forecasts. Um looking

1:24:49to present that in June of 27 as we go

1:24:51into our um budget development um time

1:24:56time frame. And then in addition to

1:25:00adopting a proposed FY20 or adopting a

1:25:03FY28 budget, I also want us to look at

1:25:05an FY29 budget. I know that it's um I

1:25:08know that's a little bit more tedious to

1:25:10do so and I know that it could be uh a

1:25:12little bit more challenging, but I I

1:25:14want to make sure that we have an idea

1:25:16of how to address um a 2-year uh budget

1:25:19outlook and then also develop a 5-year

1:25:21infrastructure management program. Uh we

1:25:23talked about this in pol and

1:25:25infrastructure

1:25:27um PWI uh last month. the idea of

1:25:31mapping and uh essentially publicizing

1:25:35uh all of our uh utilities and public

1:25:38works projects over the next 5 years uh

1:25:40based upon available budgets. Um again,

1:25:43we think that this is not only a great

1:25:45um it won't it won't just be a great uh

1:25:48coordination tool, but also be a good

1:25:50communication tool with our community so

1:25:52that each of you have an opportunity um

1:25:54if somebody asks you, hey, when's my

1:25:55street going to be done or you know, is

1:25:57my street on the list or sidewalk or

1:25:59etc.

1:26:00um that it's all in one place that you

1:26:01have that uh your fingertips.

1:26:05So again, we just touched on this uh on

1:26:07the strategic plan uh just highlighting

1:26:09working with the KU um the interviews,

1:26:12work sessions, discussion with uh

1:26:14council and executive team um again

1:26:18starting to kick off next month uh being

1:26:21adopted by the end of March of 27. Um

1:26:24and again this is uh Miss Northcut uh

1:26:27shared this earlier so I won't go

1:26:31uh so again next steps for this

1:26:34requesting feedback from the governing

1:26:35body on uh the 26 goals as well as

1:26:38anything that you would like to see us

1:26:39track for 27 based upon your discussion

1:26:42I'll send a memorandum to council by the

1:26:4427th uh to give you or present back the

1:26:47feedback that you uh gave um and then I

1:26:51plan to come back to council discuss and

1:26:53finalize those items on November 10th.

1:26:56Um, as mentioned, reporting of the FY27

1:26:58strategic goals will be included in a

1:27:00monthly consolidated budget

1:27:01accountability report, which will

1:27:03include our budget to actual uh for

1:27:06budget to actuals uh for revenues and

1:27:08expenditures, departmental performance

1:27:10metrics, and then our FY27 strategic

1:27:13goals. My plan is to share that during

1:27:15the third council meeting of each month

1:27:17beginning in February 27. As mentioned,

1:27:20I will bring a draft of the report to

1:27:21you in January 20. Yeah, January 27 to

1:27:24review it. Um, and then as mentioned, KU

1:27:27provided those additional details uh

1:27:29this evening. And with that, I'll stand

1:27:31for any questions you may have.

1:27:33>> All right. Before I open it up to the

1:27:34governing body, we have several

1:27:36individuals signed up for public comment

1:27:38on this issue this evening. So, we'll

1:27:39start with them. Uh, first up, Mr.

1:27:42Joseph Fled Better.

1:27:44I will say we have a number of people

1:27:45signed up this evening, so we're going

1:27:47to stick to our 4-minute rule. No

1:27:49extensions this evening.

1:27:50>> Gotcha.

1:27:52Good evening, governing body. Um

1:27:57I diligently listened to uh what was

1:28:00proposed and

1:28:02I said, "Wow, this is what you were

1:28:04missing.

1:28:06How about uh we set strategic goals of

1:28:08getting roads and water projects done on

1:28:11time all the time, every time? That's a

1:28:14good goal and it's not going to be met

1:28:17if we don't work on it and start on it.

1:28:20How about a businessfriendly planning

1:28:22and permitting department? People

1:28:24actually answer the phones when you

1:28:26call. I've had many times I've called up

1:28:29there and was not able to get a hold of

1:28:31anybody, but I know somebody at the

1:28:34manager's office and she gets a hold of

1:28:37everybody. I said, "Oh, I'll just call

1:28:38her."

1:28:41How about an advisory committee set up

1:28:44and this wouldn't be locked in stone,

1:28:46but you know, you could have 10 to 12

1:28:49people in the community and and

1:28:50circulate them on and off. These are not

1:28:54lifetime positions, you know, maybe

1:28:56maybe two years at a time, but to uh uh

1:29:00advise on street projects and the

1:29:04progress of street projects actually

1:29:06have the public have a way to

1:29:08communicate and uh outside of the normal

1:29:12channels which often get clogged. uh

1:29:15these people uh could actually meet with

1:29:19top management, assistant, deputy and

1:29:22manager and actually get things done. Uh

1:29:26I don't think you have to you shouldn't

1:29:27have to bug the council on everything.

1:29:30There should be a clear line of

1:29:32communication to the management team.

1:29:36And by the way, when people are

1:29:37complaining about roads, I often notice

1:29:40uh on next door that mayor, that mayor,

1:29:44and I'm going, he doesn't even control

1:29:46this. This is not the strong mayor of

1:29:48form of government. The manager controls

1:29:52all of this and his team. Of course,

1:29:55we're supposed to have input from the

1:29:56council and oversight. Uh you're the

1:29:59fiduciary. You have fiduciary duty to do

1:30:01that.

1:30:02How about we have monthly financial

1:30:04reports to the council in public on

1:30:08record that states what our current debt

1:30:10is, our current percentage of revenue

1:30:13for the budget is our uh revenue used uh

1:30:17per year on expenses

1:30:20and have those uh revenue streams

1:30:23identified because I've seen that

1:30:25missing in some of the reports I've

1:30:26asked for from the county. I county

1:30:29city, excuse me. Well, you're in the

1:30:31county. We're all part of it. Um,

1:30:34I would like to see a strategic uh plan

1:30:37uh to look at privatization ideas uh

1:30:42how government could use some

1:30:44privatization

1:30:46uh up here and uh possible consolidation

1:30:50with the uh county on certain uh

1:30:53departments and ideas. Have a talking

1:30:56about it. you know, might be uh police

1:30:59and sheriff, might be uh Wow, could they

1:31:03take over the streets? No, never mind.

1:31:06Okay, but we pay as city county

1:31:09taxpayers for two public works

1:31:12departments. We pay for two police

1:31:15departments. I think there is savings

1:31:17that could be at least talked about and

1:31:20that should be a strategic goal. Talk

1:31:22about that. And then maybe uh lastly, we

1:31:25could work on cutting our out of town

1:31:27consulting fees.

1:31:29They're horrendous. I filed core

1:31:32requests asking for them. Uh these are

1:31:35just some ideas about some strategic

1:31:38goals that would actually uh probably

1:31:40get some good people, personal citizen

1:31:44input. And I we should always strive for

1:31:46that because it also lends to the other

1:31:49good issue and that and keeping it is

1:31:51transparency of where all this money

1:31:53goes. Thank you.

1:31:55>> Thank you, sir. Next up, we have Miss

1:31:57Daniel Twimlo.

1:32:11>> Thank you. Um I will not be able to

1:32:15attend um November council meetings. Um

1:32:19so I did want to bring up um I see on

1:32:22the goals and potential to be looked at

1:32:24of the rental registry. Um I do want to

1:32:27uh speak in support of us moving forward

1:32:29with that even though there's potential

1:32:32um upfront budgetary cost to this. Um

1:32:36the hope is eventually not only would it

1:32:39pay for itself, but it would be um

1:32:41something that would also generate a

1:32:44revenue to incentivize mom and pop

1:32:46landlords um be able to have a funding

1:32:50stream for them to be able to um get

1:32:53updates into their properties. Um and

1:32:56really the misinformation that um you

1:32:59know this is a a very targeted push

1:33:01against um the mom and pop landlords. So

1:33:05um I do also want to really um push that

1:33:08the discussions that I was very grateful

1:33:11um that were occurring um where adding

1:33:15not just a lensure program or a a

1:33:18registry but also accompanying a lensure

1:33:21with these multifamily units. Um the

1:33:24data and the studies show that

1:33:25partnering the two um really increases

1:33:28not only the accountability measures but

1:33:31it also allows for it to shift to a more

1:33:34efficient framework. Um and efficiency

1:33:36is something that we have been bringing

1:33:38up a whole lot recently. The more

1:33:40efficient that we can operate um

1:33:43building a better framework is going to

1:33:45be cost-saving. Um and that is the goal

1:33:48when we partner um a lensure with a um

1:33:52rental inspection program that we

1:33:54already have. It's already built into

1:33:55code. We already have a lensure program

1:33:58with multi uh mobile home units. Um so

1:34:02um fitting this into our current

1:34:04municipal code um is really um not much

1:34:07of a stretch. Um, we also know that if

1:34:11we are shifting from reactive complaints

1:34:14and we are prioritizing based on data

1:34:17that we are able to collect and keep

1:34:19through the registry itself, then we are

1:34:22able to um use the staff that we have in

1:34:26a more efficient way. We're able to

1:34:28enforce code in a way that is logical um

1:34:32and then eventually build the model

1:34:34where we are reactive. we are going to

1:34:36increase the safety um of our citizens.

1:34:39So I really urge you that when um this

1:34:42comes forward and discussed more that we

1:34:45um heavily lean on looking at

1:34:47implementing this as soon as possible

1:34:50with our multifamily units um with

1:34:53accompaniment of a lensure um to that

1:34:55registry. I do want to put in there that

1:34:58it does state as completed within um the

1:35:02goals of a water utility rate. Um I do

1:35:05want us to keep in mind that we each

1:35:07year because each year it increases that

1:35:11we say well we've got to do it this year

1:35:13because what else are we going to do?

1:35:14We're talk about ways to do it different

1:35:17um you know for the next year and then

1:35:19the next year comes and we have that

1:35:20same convo. So, while it states

1:35:22complete, I do want us to be looking

1:35:26more proactively at ways that we can

1:35:28change the system that we have. Um, look

1:35:31at ways for it to be more efficient

1:35:33instead of waiting until we have to do

1:35:36something. So, I appreciate it.

1:35:38>> Thank you. All right, that was all on

1:35:41this item. Questions, comments from the

1:35:44governing body at this time?

1:35:49>> Mayor.

1:35:50>> Yes. Council member Deviakola.

1:35:52>> Thank you. Um, just coming on the back

1:35:54of of what the public comment just said,

1:36:00she said it all much better than I

1:36:02could. I think that when the rental

1:36:05registry comes before the governing

1:36:08body,

1:36:10we need to take a full and thorough look

1:36:13at it. We need to understand the

1:36:16importance of lenture where we can

1:36:18compare and contrast how it can be

1:36:21beneficial for retaining information but

1:36:24giving us more leverage. So in

1:36:26anticipation of this I'm really asking

1:36:30my colleagues that I don't know if

1:36:33you've been hearing on social media or

1:36:36with the emails that we get about how

1:36:39this is impacting the uh single family

1:36:43housing. It is not. That is an absolute

1:36:47mistruth that is out there and anyone

1:36:50that has been attending these meetings

1:36:52would note that. So I just hope that we

1:36:55can keep that in our minds when it comes

1:36:57up because with this rental registry and

1:37:01lensure

1:37:02can give us

1:37:04that

1:37:06power that we need to be used

1:37:09responsibly but to finally be able to

1:37:12really tackle issues with the slum lords

1:37:17that we have. And I know again it's down

1:37:19the pike a little bit, but I would ask

1:37:21you to please start considering it. If

1:37:24you need any information, reach out, you

1:37:26know, to me or the city manager or

1:37:28whoever so that can come to you ahead of

1:37:31time. Thank you, Mayor.

1:37:32>> Thank you, Council Member Miller.

1:37:36>> Thank you, Mayor. Um, getting back to

1:37:39this presentation, uh, on slide I think

1:37:43number 12,

1:37:45uh, you're the to develop a 5-year

1:37:47infrastructure management program. I I

1:37:49really like that idea. Um, being able to

1:37:51map out what it would look like makes a

1:37:54easy visual for our citizens to be able

1:37:56to understand about our construction

1:37:58that's upcoming and and current. Um, I

1:38:02think one of the problems that issues

1:38:05that we have to deal with is people

1:38:07understanding that the want to get

1:38:09construction done and the want to have

1:38:10better infrastructure and the amount of

1:38:13time it takes to do so and the amount of

1:38:15partners it takes for the city to be

1:38:17able to work with to be able to get all

1:38:19that done. If it was just all city

1:38:21employees just doing the work and we

1:38:24have the total control of what they're

1:38:26doing, things might be a little easier.

1:38:28things might get done at a different

1:38:29time and we probably wouldn't be able to

1:38:31do as many projects as we do right now.

1:38:34But in order to be able to to take care

1:38:35of this vast city that we have, which is

1:38:38not a small city. I mean, it's a small

1:38:39town comparatively to some, but to me,

1:38:43this is a big town, bigger town. It's a

1:38:45capital city. We have projects. We have

1:38:47we have things we have to get done. And

1:38:50in order for us to do those, we have to

1:38:52utilize a lot of different partners in

1:38:54doing so. So, I think it's important for

1:38:56people to understand the amount of

1:38:58projects that we have, what they will

1:39:00look like, when they're going to get

1:39:01done, and I think that's a very good

1:39:03goal that you have for your for FY2027.

1:39:07Thank you.

1:39:10>> Other comments or questions from the

1:39:12city manager?

1:39:15>> Doesn't appear that way. I can't see

1:39:17council member Hiller. She's gone. So,

1:39:18I'm going to assume she doesn't have

1:39:19anything. Maybe that's not fair. Um, be

1:39:22on the lookout for his email asking for

1:39:24your feedback. uh before he brings us

1:39:26back to us so he can get those questions

1:39:27and comments or additions, subtractions,

1:39:29whatever that looks like from you so he

1:39:31can factor that in before he brings us

1:39:33back to us.

1:39:34>> Thank you, sir.

1:39:35>> Thank you.

1:39:38>> All right,

1:39:40with that we will move on to non-action

1:39:43item B. City clerk. B is discussion

1:39:47regarding the future sales tax

1:39:49initiatives and amendment to the city

1:39:50charter ordinance to allow the governing

1:39:52body to oversee a city auditor.

1:39:55>> City manager.

1:39:56>> Thank you, mayor, members of the

1:39:57governing body. In recent discussions,

1:39:59we have identified potential sales tax

1:40:01initiatives to address both our

1:40:03projected deficits and to fund community

1:40:05identified priorities. This evening, we

1:40:07will further discuss one half cent

1:40:10general purpose sales tax to sustain our

1:40:12governmental operations and to

1:40:14potentially cash fund at least three

1:40:15fire stations identified in the fire

1:40:17station relocation plan. Two, a tenth of

1:40:20a cent special use tax for affordable

1:40:22housing and homeless services. Three,

1:40:24renewal of the citywide half cent

1:40:26infrastructure sales tax. And four, the

1:40:29charter amendment for the city auditor

1:40:30to report directly to the governing

1:40:32body. During our October 6th discussion,

1:40:34I heard the governing body ask for more

1:40:36specific language within the ballot

1:40:37questions and I'm ready to to discuss

1:40:40options for the proposed general

1:40:41government use sales tax and for the

1:40:43affordable housing trust fund and

1:40:45homeless service homeless services

1:40:47question. I also heard a consideration

1:40:49for slowing down the process to consider

1:40:51an August 2027 election instead of a

1:40:54March 2027 election to allow for a

1:40:56citizen sales tax committee to convene

1:40:58to lead a communitydriven sales tax

1:41:00development effort. We revised the

1:41:02financials and timelines to continue

1:41:04that discussion. Additionally, the

1:41:06briefing includes ballot language to

1:41:07consider renewal of the current halfsent

1:41:09citywide infrastructure sales tax and

1:41:11the charter amendment needed to allow

1:41:13the city auditor to directly report to

1:41:14the governing body. After this meeting,

1:41:17the schedule identifies final council

1:41:18consideration next week on October 20th

1:41:21to allow us ample time to provide our

1:41:22ballot language to the county's election

1:41:24office for consideration of a March 2nd,

1:41:272027 special election. that Daltton

1:41:30Badel, deputy director of budget and

1:41:31finance, and I will lead you through

1:41:33this item.

1:41:37So, uh, these first few slides we've

1:41:39we've looked at, uh, over the last few

1:41:41weeks. Uh, again, this first item just

1:41:44shows the the why. Uh, I think, uh,

1:41:46Councilman Banks's question, uh, really

1:41:48stuck with me at, uh, I think it was

1:41:50policy and finance. Um, you know, h why

1:41:54why are we considering something like

1:41:55this? Um, as we did our financial

1:41:58forecast earlier this year, we are

1:42:00projecting a budget deficit in 2028 of

1:42:0213.3 million and a budget deficit of

1:42:0517.4 million in 2029.

1:42:08Again, as presented earlier this year,

1:42:10uh, our budget uh, budget revenues uh,

1:42:13our expenditures actually exceed our our

1:42:15revenues, thus creating a recurring

1:42:17imbalance between our revenues and

1:42:18expenditures.

1:42:21um to address uh projected deficits and

1:42:23maintain current service service levels,

1:42:25we we talked about uh again a general

1:42:28use uh sales tax half a cent that would

1:42:31generate approximately $20 million

1:42:33annually. Uh again, that would um that

1:42:37would cover expenses directly related to

1:42:39all of our city operations and the

1:42:40general fund to include fire, police,

1:42:43code, courts, and public works. And then

1:42:45also to consider the construction of

1:42:47fire stations. Uh we've also talked

1:42:49about the separate item, the onetenth of

1:42:51a cent uh that would generate

1:42:53approximately $4 million annually to

1:42:55fund the affordable housing trust fund

1:42:57and homeless services. And then uh

1:43:00renewing the existing halfcent citywide

1:43:01infrastructure sales tax which sunsets

1:43:04in 2029 and then also the consideration

1:43:06for implementation office of city

1:43:08auditor that would report directly to

1:43:10the council which would require a

1:43:12charter uh charter amendment.

1:43:15As mentioned uh previously our current

1:43:17sales tax rate in Topek is 9.35. If we

1:43:20consider both the half cent and onetenth

1:43:23of a cent uh sales tax uh that would

1:43:25take our combined sales tax rate up to

1:43:289.95%.

1:43:31One of the things that was asked for or

1:43:33asked last week and uh Dalton sent this

1:43:35information out to you on Sunday uh

1:43:38evening. So, we we looked at the

1:43:41difference between uh a mil levy uh

1:43:44increase compared to a sales tax.

1:43:46Essentially, to address a 13.3 million

1:43:49deficit in 28, we'd have to consider a

1:43:52sales tax increase of 8.35.

1:43:55Um and then in 2029 to address the

1:43:58increment uh up to $7.4 million, we'd

1:44:02have to increase that by another 2.567

1:44:04in FY29 to generate roughly 17.4 4

1:44:07million.

1:44:09And then on the right, uh, we showed a

1:44:11property tax increase on the value of a

1:44:14home. Um, for a value of a of a home at

1:44:18$100,000

1:44:20in 2028, uh, that 8.350 would would

1:44:24essentially equate to $96 uh annual

1:44:28impact. Um, and for a $300,000 home, uh,

1:44:31that increase would be $576.

1:44:35In 2029, uh, with that extra 2.567

1:44:39increase, um, that increase will go up

1:44:42for $100,000 home from $96 to $125 a

1:44:46year in 29. For $300,000 home, that uh

1:44:51value that uh increase will go from 576

1:44:54a year to $753 um dollars annually in

1:44:582029.

1:45:01We looked at a comparison of what uh an

1:45:04average household spent um based upon

1:45:07the Bureau of Labor Statistics. This is

1:45:08a report that they provided in December

1:45:1025 uh for reporting period of of 2024.

1:45:15essentially um for that $17,000 and

1:45:18$23,000

1:45:20uh spend um the annual spend of $17,000

1:45:25equates to about just under $1,590 of

1:45:28sales tax and 9.35%.

1:45:31At a 9.95% sales tax rate, um that would

1:45:34go up to $1691 to $1692

1:45:38or a variance of $102 a year. And then

1:45:41for a $23,000

1:45:43uh spend annually, um that that equates

1:45:47to about $2,10050

1:45:49uh on sales tax at 9.35%.

1:45:52Compared to $2,289

1:45:56uh at a 9.95%

1:45:58um sales tax rate. So basically another

1:46:01$138 a year that that that household

1:46:05would be spending on [clears throat]

1:46:06sales tax. So, when you compare that

1:46:08$138, let's just uh let's call the

1:46:11$23,000 spend.

1:46:13>> That $138 equates to

1:46:15>> real quick. Can you go back? We had a

1:46:17specific question on that slide

1:46:18>> on this one.

1:46:19>> Yeah.

1:46:19>> So, on this right here, your annual

1:46:21spend, what is your household size? All

1:46:24that kind that that makes a difference

1:46:26on all all this here. I know you're

1:46:28using your labor statistics, which

1:46:31sometimes more of an estimate than

1:46:33actual, you know, what what the data

1:46:35says. So, and then household size. I

1:46:39>> right right now our household size is

1:46:412.21 people per house in Topeka. So, if

1:46:44you're equating for four people, you're

1:46:46actually doubling up what kind of the

1:46:48mentality there.

1:46:49>> Yeah. So, that was for uh a family of

1:46:52two.

1:46:52>> Okay. All right. Thank you.

1:46:58>> So, what we did was uh we went back and

1:47:00we looked at what what we could do again

1:47:03hearing the feedback. And so what we

1:47:06have proposed here is a half cent uh

1:47:11scenario uh increase

1:47:14um for an August election. Um we

1:47:16wouldn't collect anything till January 1

1:47:18of 2028. Uh what we have done here,

1:47:21you'll see beginning of 2028, you'll see

1:47:23a $20 million infusion on row three. um

1:47:27annually.

1:47:29You'll see at the bottom there that um

1:47:31we do maintain uh over 20% reserves

1:47:34going through 2031.

1:47:36However, this also assumes $2 million of

1:47:39budget reductions or adjustments that we

1:47:41would need to make every year. That was

1:47:43one of the things that that I did hear

1:47:44from this governing body is that um we

1:47:47still still want to see some budget

1:47:50reductions and make sure that we're

1:47:52running as efficiently as possible. So

1:47:54in this model essentially as mentioned

1:47:57uh first collections would be a January

1:47:591 and 28 uh with an August 27 election.

1:48:02We do have to wait 90 days uh after an

1:48:05election uh is held um for us to report

1:48:08to Kelly. Kelly, who was it?

1:48:12It's okay. Uh we we basically have to

1:48:14certify the election. Uh it takes about

1:48:1690 days before we can actually get that

1:48:18moving forward. Um which takes us past

1:48:20an October 1 starting collection date.

1:48:22you can only collect on the first day of

1:48:24a quarter of each calendar year. So, we

1:48:27wouldn't be able to collect anything uh

1:48:28for an August election until January 1

1:48:30and 28. As mentioned, provides for a

1:48:33structurally balanced budget through

1:48:34FY2033 and reserves above 15% through

1:48:37FY34. And I'll show you that on the next

1:48:39slide. As mentioned, we do have we still

1:48:41would have to do about $2 million of

1:48:44reductions or budget adjustments every

1:48:46year. I say budget adjustments because

1:48:48that could come in the form of revenues.

1:48:51We talked about looking at things like

1:48:52our uh parking fund and maybe charging

1:48:55for parking, more parking downtown. Uh

1:48:57that could be an offset to debt service

1:48:59payments that we have for the parking

1:49:01garages. Um and then as mentioned, this

1:49:04provides $30 million to Cash Fund 3 fire

1:49:06stations between 2029 and 2031. And this

1:49:09just runs out the forecast of the 2035

1:49:12period. So you'll see uh essentially um

1:49:16looking at uh the 2034 column, we stay

1:49:19above 15% reserves, but going into 2035,

1:49:22even with $2 million of reductions every

1:49:24year, we drop below 15% in 2035.

1:49:29We also did the 4/10enth of a cent

1:49:31scenario. Uh again running the same

1:49:33model uh assuming uh assuming a an

1:49:37August election.

1:49:39uh first collection is not occurring

1:49:41till January 1 and 28. This generates

1:49:43about $16 million a year. Uh again,

1:49:46provides for structurally balanced

1:49:47budget through FY2031 with reserves uh

1:49:5015 above 15% through uh 2034. However,

1:49:53this does not provide cash funding for

1:49:55fire stations.

1:49:58And again, we ran out the forecast

1:50:00through the 2035 budget year. Um and

1:50:03you'll see how after 2034

1:50:06uh we start dipping below 15% reserves.

1:50:09Uh and again assumes a $2 million annual

1:50:11as far as budget adjustments or

1:50:13reductions.

1:50:16So

1:50:18the ballot language uh trying to get a

1:50:20little bit more specific. Um so we kind

1:50:23of revised this uh again is still the

1:50:25half cent uh that would take effect on

1:50:27January 1 to 28. Uh this assumes again

1:50:31an August election, August 2027

1:50:33election. Uh basically 1A is uh the the

1:50:38I guess the dollars we applied as

1:50:40follows. An amount not to exceed $30

1:50:42million for the design and construction

1:50:43of at least three fire stations and

1:50:45annual allocations not to exceed $15

1:50:48million for public safety, police, fire

1:50:50code, municipal courts to include

1:50:52personnel acquisition of vehicles and

1:50:54equipment and other purposes related to

1:50:55providing public safety services for the

1:50:57city. And then B is an annual allocation

1:51:01of um not to exceeding $5 million for

1:51:03public works and infrastructure services

1:51:05to include the personnel acquisition of

1:51:07vehicles, equipment, etc. So that that

1:51:10is the the generic or focused yet still

1:51:14general um language that we are asking

1:51:16for your consideration on this.

1:51:19And then this one for the affordable

1:51:21housing and homeless services is the

1:51:22onetenth of a cent with a minimum of 50%

1:51:24of the revenue going towards the

1:51:26affordable housing trust fund and not

1:51:28more than half of the revenue going

1:51:29towards the construction and operating

1:51:30costs of homeless initiatives including

1:51:33but not limited to outreach services,

1:51:35rental assistance and affordable housing

1:51:37such as uh tiny home communities. That's

1:51:39consistent with the built for zero uh

1:51:42discussion that we had last week. So

1:51:44again, uh wanted to focus it more on uh

1:51:46those types of services and

1:51:48opportunities to include the tiny home

1:51:50communities uh while still keeping it

1:51:52general. Um as mentioned, uh the more

1:51:56restrictive the language gets, the more

1:51:58restrictive the funds get. So again,

1:52:00want us to be able to home uh be able to

1:52:02provide the services um but again still

1:52:06have give us flexibility.

1:52:08And then uh this is the renewal of the

1:52:10half cent for the citywide uh

1:52:12infrastructure. Uh again uh this would

1:52:15replace um the current measure uh which

1:52:19expires on October 1, 2029.

1:52:22And then this is the same uh language

1:52:24that we uh shared with you in the last

1:52:27few weeks about um the ballot language

1:52:29for the auditors, city auditor reporting

1:52:31directly to council. Uh we did pass out

1:52:34uh draft ordinance language uh this

1:52:37evening and it was emailed earlier

1:52:38today. So you have that in front of you.

1:52:42Uh again for the a sales tax ballot

1:52:44timeline for March uh 2nd, 2027 special

1:52:47election. Um again discussing um the the

1:52:52issues this evening. Uh if we do want to

1:52:55move forward with a March 2nd uh ballot,

1:52:58we would need uh council to consider and

1:53:01approve for call for an election uh

1:53:03basically next week. Um as mentioned,

1:53:06the uh election will be held on March

1:53:082nd and 27. And if passed, uh July 1 um

1:53:13would be the first day of the new sales

1:53:15tax collections.

1:53:17We've also written up a proposed

1:53:19timeline for an August 27 uh ballot to

1:53:23allow for a citizen sales tax committee.

1:53:25Uh essentially next month uh we would

1:53:27look for the commission or committee to

1:53:30be formed, do our due diligence with the

1:53:32committee between December 26 and

1:53:33February 27. um work with them uh to

1:53:37deliberate on options and

1:53:39recommendations.

1:53:40And then March 27 um council will

1:53:45consider for uh consider the language

1:53:47and call for an election election held

1:53:50in August 27. And then as mentioned,

1:53:53January 1 would be the first collection

1:53:55date if it was approved and passed by

1:53:57the public.

1:53:59With that, we'll open it up for any

1:54:00questions you may have.

1:54:03All right, we have several individuals

1:54:04signed up to speak on this, so we will

1:54:06do public comment on this item first and

1:54:08then I'll open it up to the council.

1:54:10First up, Mr. Joseph Lebet.

1:54:16Thank you, governing body, citizens.

1:54:18I've got some handouts. I'll try to get

1:54:20these out quickly.

1:54:26pass one into the record and governor

1:54:32body. Uh this uh core request I made uh

1:54:35last week and if you look down at the

1:54:39bottom part I I was asking for the

1:54:41foundational documents for all these

1:54:43projections that were being given about

1:54:45how we're going to run out of money in

1:54:47two years and the sky is going to fall

1:54:49and we just we're going to be out of

1:54:50money. We got to hurry up and have a

1:54:52tax. we got to hurry up. And they

1:54:56stated, well, uh, we've got 27 because

1:54:59we just did that, uh, budget. Uh, 2028

1:55:03is the full extent of our projections.

1:55:06We don't have data beyond that.

1:55:09I could rest my case on that, but let's

1:55:12move on.

1:55:14Um, one thing I wanted to do in this,

1:55:17uh, some of the I don't know whose those

1:55:20are. Sorry. uh some of the things I got

1:55:23uh they projected uh budget shortfalls

1:55:28uh four two and three years out but then

1:55:31they look at the size of the reserves

1:55:33they're proposing it's like 32% which is

1:55:36about double what you really need you

1:55:38need a 15% that's a rule of thumb across

1:55:41most entities in this country so what

1:55:44you're doing is you're adding $23

1:55:47million

1:55:48into the budget for reserves

1:55:52with a $20 million sales tax. Folks,

1:55:55that makes no sense.

1:55:57Furthermore, uh it's really a ridiculous

1:56:01concept. Uh I wanted the revenue streams

1:56:06of these projections. And so I'm going

1:56:07to hand these out because I wanted to

1:56:10make sure that we were including

1:56:14interest and dividend income, which we

1:56:16had 15 million last year, and utility

1:56:20administrative transfers of over 10

1:56:22million a year. I want to make sure

1:56:24those are actually in their budget

1:56:26projections. But when I looked at what

1:56:28they sent me, all I got was the

1:56:30expenses, but no breakdown of the

1:56:32revenue. I'm going, folks. I'm sure the

1:56:36council caught that, but just in case,

1:56:38I'll come down and point it out.

1:56:45Two years ago, when I first met this

1:56:46manager, nice guy, he says, "Joe, don't

1:56:50you think we need a half cent sales

1:56:51tax?" I said, "No."

1:56:53What kind of discussion is that? You

1:56:55just got here. Why do you need a half

1:56:58cent sales tax? Well, don't you think we

1:56:59need more money? I said, "No, we need to

1:57:01trim our budgets and control our

1:57:04excesses and make sure projects are done

1:57:07on time so they're not costing us more

1:57:08and make sure that the people are taken

1:57:10care of and they do not want more

1:57:13taxes."

1:57:16And so if there was an urgency two years

1:57:19ago, I guess it's even more urgent now.

1:57:23At the beginning of this year, I kept

1:57:26hearing we have a $15 million shortfall.

1:57:2815 million. I said, "Are you sure that's

1:57:31all of it?" "Yeah, 15 million. That's

1:57:32what we need." And so I started working

1:57:35on uh core requests and getting uh FTE

1:57:39positions and things that I felt normal

1:57:42uh trimming would go on in a manager

1:57:44form of government. That's what managers

1:57:45are trained to do. I know I went through

1:57:47that training at KU. And uh and I sent

1:57:51those projections and those cuts to you,

1:57:54the good members of the body. And I know

1:57:56that some of them were picked up and I

1:57:58had discussions with the mayor. I even

1:58:00had discussions with the manager and

1:58:02some of the council members. And at the

1:58:04end of the day, we only raised that

1:58:06budget 900,000.

1:58:09It was not 15 million shortfall. I'm

1:58:12looking at credibility here, folks.

1:58:14Credibility.

1:58:16My time is up. Thank you.

1:58:18>> Thank you.

1:58:20Next up, I believe we have Martha

1:58:23Boatight, who is on Zoom. All

1:58:31right.

1:58:32>> Oh, we can see you can hear today. I

1:58:35didn't feel like uh risking it driving

1:58:38over in this weather today. Um um I just

1:58:42wanted to speak briefly. Uh I am also

1:58:45just always reluctant that when we put

1:58:48new taxes that we put it on sales tax

1:58:50since it tends to be the most regressive

1:58:52form of taxation that we have. Um,

1:58:54however, I am mostly here to speak in

1:58:57support of the tightening of the

1:58:59language on the um tax for housing. Um,

1:59:04I appreciate that it was narrowly more

1:59:07narrowly restricted not to just be new

1:59:09housing, but be for um affordable

1:59:12housing and um uh the homeless

1:59:15initiatives that we are still

1:59:18way behind on actually finishing uh the

1:59:22way we should have. And so I know that

1:59:25the more restrictive you make language,

1:59:27the less it it means that you can use

1:59:29things. But in this case, I think that's

1:59:31to the benefit. We don't need to be

1:59:34using our taxpayer money to fund the

1:59:37profits of for-profit market housing. We

1:59:40need to be using it to be making

1:59:42affordable housing um a viable option.

1:59:46um because current whenever you guys

1:59:48have one of the market rate housing

1:59:50projects go in, the rents that they are

1:59:52charging are in excess of what the

1:59:54average household in um Topeka can

1:59:56afford. So I appreciate the tightening

1:59:58of the language. Um but I would also say

2:00:02that I would agree that um if possible

2:00:06it might be worthwhile looking at places

2:00:08maybe where we could trim our budget.

2:00:10Um, just and this is all I'm going to

2:00:12say before my last thing I'm going to

2:00:13say before I'm done, but we did just

2:00:15have a really extensive talk last time

2:00:18about how our police department somehow

2:00:20has money to buy a bunch of flot

2:00:22cameras. Oh, sorry. They're not flot

2:00:24cameras. They're Teeu cameras. Uh,

2:00:26there's some other brands. Um, but

2:00:28basically devices to monitor all of us.

2:00:30They have the money for that. I'm like,

2:00:31but which nobody in our community seems

2:00:33to want. I'm not sure why we can't shave

2:00:35off money by not purchasing things that

2:00:37people don't want in our communities. um

2:00:40and instead pass those savings on

2:00:42towards uh things that would actually

2:00:43benefit our community in the long run.

2:00:45Thank you. That's all I wanted to say.

2:00:47>> Thank you, Martha. Next up, Danielle

2:00:50Twlo.

2:01:02I just want to put a few reminders um

2:01:05while we consider whether this is

2:01:07something we want to do right away,

2:01:09which I I'll tell you it's it likely

2:01:13will will not pass if we do it from the

2:01:15jump without a couple other things um

2:01:19beforehand. I think a reminder we we

2:01:22maybe haven't talked enough about is

2:01:24that we have 12 C districts within our

2:01:30community. 12 of the bigger shopping

2:01:34areas that people go to um already have

2:01:39a 1 to 2%

2:01:42um increase in that sales tax. that

2:01:44would bring um sales tax at those

2:01:46locations upwards of 11.35%.

2:01:51um or or you know it if we we create so

2:01:55many of these taxing districts within

2:01:57our community now people have very

2:01:59little options um to shop um and we'll

2:02:04eventually start just shifting it online

2:02:06or going other places um if the taxes

2:02:10keep um going up because a larger

2:02:12purchase at any one of those that that

2:02:14makes a pretty significant um difference

2:02:18um so I want us to keep that in mind as

2:02:20while we have put ourselves in that kind

2:02:22of situation. I do remember at one point

2:02:25I believe in one of the committees um

2:02:28mayor had brought up uh a year or two

2:02:31ago about potentially um having signs up

2:02:35in those locations as well um that allow

2:02:39um citizens to make informed decisions

2:02:41about their purchases. Um you know

2:02:44there's certain places I don't shop

2:02:45specifically because of that. I'll go

2:02:47across the street. Um, but not everyone

2:02:49knows until they've already checked out.

2:02:51Um, why was that a little bit more than

2:02:53I was anticipating? So, um, I'd like us

2:02:56to revisit that so people can be making

2:02:58informed decisions about which shops

2:03:01have that higher, um, sales tax already

2:03:04because it's a C district. Um, I do

2:03:08think another transparent thing that we

2:03:10need to put out there and it's been

2:03:12mentioned multiple times is we have

2:03:15multiple sales tax initiatives that, you

2:03:19know, kind of to the general public. I

2:03:21mean, it's a lot to discern seemingly go

2:03:24to relatively similar things. We have

2:03:26the JATO halfsent sales tax for

2:03:28infrastructure.

2:03:30um but bigger projects. And then we have

2:03:32the halfsent sales tax for

2:03:34infrastructure with the city that goes

2:03:36to like maintaining

2:03:38um you know like really spelling that

2:03:40out because even just in my reading

2:03:43through minutes and going through those

2:03:44things found a project that we have on

2:03:47our CI coming out of our infrastructure

2:03:50funds that originally was um a

2:03:53development uh that was paid for through

2:03:56JO funds. So we are paying both of those

2:03:59sales tax but yet seem to have this over

2:04:03overlapping and and really not clear use

2:04:06of where those sales tax dollars are

2:04:08going because when we're asking for

2:04:10transparency from specifically through

2:04:13that JO network it seems to be very

2:04:16muddled and because we don't have great

2:04:19um ability to pull these projects online

2:04:21and we have to do cororas and tons of

2:04:24research and and it's incomplete then we

2:04:26don't know and we don't feel confident

2:04:28about that. So, getting some of these

2:04:31things in order over the next few months

2:04:33before asking people to do more, you're

2:04:36going to be more successful um and

2:04:38getting a response that people feel

2:04:40comfortable with. Thank you.

2:04:42>> Thank you.

2:04:44>> All right, we'll turn this conversation

2:04:46over to the governing body. I'm going to

2:04:47make a couple quick comments before we

2:04:48start that. As I've looked at this and I

2:04:51know that we have one council member has

2:04:52an option four, so that's fair and we'll

2:04:54have that conversation. But I I view us

2:04:56as having sort of three primary options

2:04:58and then whatever else we come up with

2:04:59will be four, five, and six, I guess.

2:05:01But as I expressed last week, I think

2:05:05I'm not entirely ready to think we're

2:05:07prepared over the next week to have what

2:05:09the full question would look like,

2:05:10whether it's a quarter cent, half cent,

2:05:12specifically what it would go to. But I

2:05:14think our three options are we either

2:05:16try to get this done this week and next

2:05:18week, and we can try to get everything

2:05:19we think we want to get done for a March

2:05:21ballot and make that decision a vote we

2:05:23need to take next week. we can do

2:05:25nothing and push it all off until August

2:05:28as the city manager has recommended,

2:05:29allowing some time for community

2:05:31conversation and and additional input

2:05:33and some more time to craft that

2:05:34question. I also think the third option

2:05:36is we could split the difference if we

2:05:37think that's something we want to do. We

2:05:39could take the question of the auditor

2:05:41and we could take the question of the

2:05:42housing and homelessness piece, which I

2:05:44think there's some consensus on, put it

2:05:46in a March mailin ballot, and then we

2:05:48could put the rest off until that August

2:05:51primary. So, those are as I see it. Um,

2:05:55I'm okay with that last option if that's

2:05:57the will of the body at this point. Um,

2:06:00I'm okay with pushing it all off. I'm

2:06:02not okay still, as I mentioned last

2:06:04week, thinking we're going to accomplish

2:06:06all of this and and have some community

2:06:07investment and buy in a week from now on

2:06:10some pretty complicated questions. So,

2:06:12as I said last week, if that is the will

2:06:13of this body, I'll continue to

2:06:14facilitate that conversation and, you

2:06:17know, we can move forward on that that

2:06:19piece, but I mean, I have my vote on

2:06:20that part of it if we've tried to do it

2:06:22all by March. Um, so I just want to be

2:06:23very clear about that. Like I said, I

2:06:25know we also have some other proposals

2:06:26that will be discussed this evening, but

2:06:28I wanted to wanted to put those options

2:06:30out there. With that, Council Member

2:06:31Kell

2:06:33to kind of go off what you're saying

2:06:34there. Uh, the only way I'll support any

2:06:36of this is if we push it to August

2:06:38because I think we need the time frame

2:06:39to work through this to get the

2:06:41community involved in it and make sure

2:06:43we're making the correct decision and

2:06:46not rushing through this.

2:06:48Uh, on slide uh six,

2:06:52you have the annual spend and the 9.35

2:06:55and 9.9. I'd like to see that also

2:06:58broken down off of just regular sales

2:07:01that you know people purchases but also

2:07:03food because if you go to the food

2:07:04aspect of things uh that's you drop the

2:07:076% from the state off that. So I want to

2:07:11make sure we have our projections right

2:07:13on that type of thing of how much how

2:07:16much it's going to cost the citizen but

2:07:17also how much we're bringing in if we

2:07:19were to have this passed. uh because

2:07:22that that could make a major difference

2:07:24in our projections if we have our

2:07:27regular spending plus our broken down uh

2:07:30food spending because that is a two

2:07:33different tax tax rates right there.

2:07:37>> Okay.

2:07:38>> Okay. Um

2:07:40then and the one thing everyone keeps on

2:07:43saying is cut cut. I think we need to

2:07:45have a chart of what we've cut over the

2:07:47last few years to have for to show

2:07:49people and what departments what

2:07:52percentage of the department it's been

2:07:54and what savings there have been by

2:07:56cutting those those positions and to

2:07:59show that we have you know over the last

2:08:013 years cut you know 8% or you know an

2:08:06eighth of our our workforce and saved

2:08:08this much money by doing that. um and

2:08:11you know cut half of this department in

2:08:14cut this department in half so this way

2:08:16people understand that we have done

2:08:17these cuts and what it has affected.

2:08:22>> Thank you

2:08:24>> council member Valdivia Alcala.

2:08:26>> Thank you mayor. Um, let me ask a

2:08:28question if someone could clarify our

2:08:30city manager or mayor. If

2:08:34the affordable housing and the

2:08:38homelessness would go on the March mail

2:08:42in ballot, when would that question

2:08:44absolutely have to be crafted and done

2:08:48and approved by I think I missed it.

2:08:50>> Next week.

2:08:52>> Okay. So, this is why I am not for that.

2:08:55I state and believe me I I seriously

2:08:59believe that I am truly invested in this

2:09:03especially the bill for zero and I

2:09:05stated last week if we are going to be

2:09:08asking people to pay for this and this

2:09:12is specifically I'm talking specifically

2:09:14about the bill for zero we need to show

2:09:18them more we need to show them what this

2:09:23methodology and what this program

2:09:26aspires to by successes that have

2:09:29occurred in other cities. We need to

2:09:32give them a sense of what we're looking

2:09:33at in the way of housing.

2:09:37to give them a better understanding

2:09:40about what wraparound services look

2:09:43like. Because while we may feel that as

2:09:47council people we have a better insight

2:09:50into this, this is a huge initiative

2:09:55that we cannot afford to loot on nose.

2:10:01And so I I I would not be able to

2:10:04support that and I would continue to

2:10:06press the city manager, whoever I needed

2:10:08to press to get that presentation. Um,

2:10:12again, it was good what Harry gave. No

2:10:16qualms on that, but we need to be more

2:10:19visual. We need to have the proof that

2:10:23we can give them. And so with that said,

2:10:28the other question I have is, city

2:10:29manager, why can't we actually put

2:10:34in the framing of this ballot question,

2:10:37why can't we actually put built for zero

2:10:40since we are classified as a built for

2:10:43zero city by the state? because and and

2:10:46before you answer that, I would say

2:10:48you're you're

2:10:50you have fleshed out a lot of what built

2:10:53for zero is for.

2:10:55My concern is if something goes south,

2:10:58not that I don't trust government, haha,

2:11:01but if something goes south

2:11:05that it wouldn't end up nudging its way

2:11:08for something other than built for zero

2:11:11or maybe something with homelessness

2:11:13over here. So that everything that has

2:11:15been worked on

2:11:17for years now that is still trying to

2:11:21get the strong foundation it stays

2:11:24committed with that narrow verbiage.

2:11:30>> Um

2:11:30>> but that's a question. So, council

2:11:32member, as I mentioned, I think the

2:11:34intent uh is to focus on those services

2:11:38that uh will be delivered uh from built

2:11:42for zero efforts. Uh again, what what

2:11:45happens if built for zero, you know,

2:11:48goes away in 5 years and it's, you know,

2:11:51something else? Again, by by tying us

2:11:54down to, you know, saying specific built

2:11:56for zero, the the program could dissolve

2:11:59in 3 4 years or something. and it's

2:12:01called something else and we're specific

2:12:03we're tied to that specific language

2:12:05that specific program and I think there

2:12:07would be an argument there that would

2:12:08suggest well it says built for zero well

2:12:10built for zero went away and so we can't

2:12:13we we can't you know pivot so again I

2:12:16think the spirit what I was trying to

2:12:17capture in the language was to actually

2:12:19deliver those services that regardless

2:12:21of what program it is uh it's it focused

2:12:25on our homeless uh population

2:12:27>> okay so I'm going to do push back on

2:12:30that because I think that there is

2:12:33enough momentum out there for people to

2:12:35know that it's not just going to

2:12:36disappear. So that's a little bit

2:12:38disingenuous. I mean when I'm thinking

2:12:41about that but the other part of that is

2:12:44that

2:12:46how many years before you got here where

2:12:51there were all kinds of entities

2:12:53including the city working duplication

2:12:57of pro duplication of services all over

2:13:00the place and our homelessness issues

2:13:03were just

2:13:06increasing

2:13:07and we were spending and spending ing

2:13:09and spinning our wheels and we were not

2:13:12partnering in the way that this

2:13:14methodology s suggests.

2:13:18I would [laughter] I know I can't force

2:13:21you to do nothing but I would ask you to

2:13:25consider or even colleagues to consider

2:13:30if we leave the language too loose

2:13:35then we could end up in a mess and

2:13:39misspending people's money if we keep it

2:13:44and and tell me how long remind me how

2:13:46long if this passes how many years it

2:13:48would be for

2:13:49>> 10 years ma'am

2:13:51>> 10 years okay I mean

2:13:55I'm going to do some additional research

2:13:56on built for zero just and it has

2:13:59nothing to do because I brought it forth

2:14:02just because that there was research

2:14:04that was done by numerous people about

2:14:07programs across the country

2:14:10and that was the standout one. So, um I

2:14:16I do have concerns with language this

2:14:19loose. And the other thing is is that

2:14:22with the halfset,

2:14:25um I do not believe I believe that there

2:14:29should be special wording

2:14:30[clears throat] in this that this should

2:14:31not be used for any type of pay

2:14:34increases across the board. I just I I

2:14:38don't I don't think it should for police

2:14:40and fire. Uh

2:14:43I think my my deep concern is is that

2:14:47with the 27%

2:14:49[snorts] uh raise that was given uh and

2:14:52then I think the 12 or 14 with fire. My

2:14:56concern is that this money will end up

2:14:59where it could be used proactively in

2:15:01other ways with uh public health and

2:15:04safety that it will end up getting tied

2:15:06up in um increases cost increases and I

2:15:12think that that is just wrong

2:15:14especially at the times that we are in.

2:15:18Um, and also I'm wondering,

2:15:23um, no, that's it. That's all I'll say.

2:15:25Thank you, Mayor.

2:15:26>> Thank you, Council Member Ortiz.

2:15:31>> Thank you. Um, I'm not going to

2:15:34reiterate what people have said, but I

2:15:36think we need to still work on the

2:15:38language and I think we need to do it in

2:15:40August. We got one shot at this. And

2:15:42talking to some of my constituents,

2:15:44I tell you what, there's some that say

2:15:47they don't want to do anything for the

2:15:48homeless. They don't want tiny homes.

2:15:50They can't build a tiny home. So why

2:15:52should they provide one? Um but when I

2:15:55look at um the acquisition of vehicles

2:15:57and equipment and other purposes related

2:15:59to providing public sav safety services

2:16:02for the city, what does that mean? I

2:16:05mean, that's that's what I'm saying. It

2:16:07has to be in black or white. it it can't

2:16:10be in between. It has to be that there

2:16:12can't be any gray area. Um

2:16:16that might mean, you know, the lady at

2:16:18the front desk, you know, she has to go

2:16:20out and do something so we get her she

2:16:22get her a vehicle. And that's not what

2:16:24citizens want. They they need to know

2:16:27they need to know what this is. We have

2:16:29a lot of work to do if this is what

2:16:31we're going to do and we can't do it in

2:16:32a week. I think um a lot of people are

2:16:36saying we're asking for too much

2:16:39too soon.

2:16:42A lot of people are saying they don't

2:16:44want sales tax. A lot of people say they

2:16:47support just building fire stations,

2:16:50you know, and so I don't think that any

2:16:55of this should ever be used for

2:16:56anybody's

2:16:58um any employees salary. Um cuz that

2:17:02that that's a disaster with it just

2:17:04waiting to happen. But um I'm I'm in

2:17:07August. I won't support this. Thank you.

2:17:10>> Thank you, Council Member [snorts]

2:17:11Bradberry.

2:17:14>> Yes. Thank you.

2:17:15Um, I just wanted to kind of talk or

2:17:20speak to what Councilwoman Vivia was

2:17:24saying. Um,

2:17:27I think I I don't know that necessarily

2:17:31we have to name a program specifically

2:17:34as long as we're doing something that is

2:17:36evidencebased

2:17:38in best practices

2:17:41and we have a plan.

2:17:44uh a strate a strategic plan in place.

2:17:48Um

2:17:49we've identified outcomes and metrics. I

2:17:53think that's for me that's the important

2:17:56piece in this um

2:18:00because it could be called something

2:18:02different later on but you might still

2:18:06be using the same methodology.

2:18:13I initially wasn't supportive of um

2:18:20moving to August, but if that's what we

2:18:24need to do in order to

2:18:26really firm things up with the language

2:18:31um

2:18:32on the onetenth of a sales tax for

2:18:36affordable housing and homelessness,

2:18:39then

2:18:41that's [snorts] I think that's maybe the

2:18:43best thing to to do. But I think as long

2:18:47as we have a plan in place and we can

2:18:49show

2:18:51how we're using the money and whether

2:18:52we're meeting

2:18:54goals and objectives [clears throat]

2:18:57um in actually achieving the results

2:19:00that we want. For me, that's the

2:19:03important part of of this sales tax um

2:19:07is being able to show that we we're

2:19:09actually getting results.

2:19:13The other the half a cent I

2:19:17I agree I there's more refining on that

2:19:21language that needs to be done with the

2:19:23with the half cent.

2:19:26>> Council member Hiller,

2:19:29>> thank you. Can you hear me?

2:19:30>> Yep. Okay. Um, I appreciate all the work

2:19:34that's been done in the comments. I'll

2:19:37kind of go through in some sort of

2:19:39order. I sent something out today with

2:19:41some thoughts. I am not absolutely

2:19:43wedded to them, but I wanted to share

2:19:46the them. Before I get to those though,

2:19:48on the affordable housing and homeless,

2:19:50I feel like the community is really

2:19:52eager to participate in that and get

2:19:54some things moving. um promoting our own

2:19:59affordable housing and home homeless

2:20:01leadership um if we need a you know kind

2:20:04of hidon if you will. Um I don't know

2:20:08that I thought that the language leaned

2:20:11a little too more toward construction

2:20:12for my taste for homeless but on the

2:20:15other hand it had services and outreach

2:20:17in there and I felt like it was pretty

2:20:20well worded. Um, I do think people have

2:20:23waited long enough that they would be, I

2:20:26might be wrong, so this conversation is

2:20:28good, that they would be eager to vote

2:20:30on it in March and get it moving. Again,

2:20:33might be wrong on that. Um,

2:20:37overall, in terms of the proposal for

2:20:39the halfsent, I like others have always

2:20:41said I didn't think that would pass. Um

2:20:44and particularly the way it is it is

2:20:47proposed right now for the halfsent

2:20:49where it's a mix of five different

2:20:52departments plus plus the fire stations

2:20:55plus plus plus uh um vehicles I think it

2:21:00looks like a big slush fund and so at

2:21:04least to have the the and so my proposal

2:21:08for the 40 which then gets it just to

2:21:12the operating expenses for the

2:21:13departments and and pops the um capital

2:21:17expenses pop in in right up front as far

2:21:21as I'm concerned and I felt this way.

2:21:27>> We had nothing.

2:21:27>> Now you did cut out on their own.

2:21:29>> You're back. You council member Heler,

2:21:31you did cut out for a moment,

2:21:33but I think you're back.

2:21:36>> Okay,

2:21:37>> you're back.

2:21:38>> Okay. Thank

2:21:41I I

2:21:43I think with the point4 if you look at

2:21:46the numbers that Dalton ran it still

2:21:49comes out okay with the budget balances.

2:21:53Um I had been concerned that if we were

2:21:56going to do March or August that we

2:21:59needed to do some cuts right away before

2:22:03the first of the year even. That's why

2:22:05the extra 2 million is in there. Um, if

2:22:08people don't want to do it, I think we

2:22:10can get by. The issue is what is it that

2:22:13people are looking for for us to

2:22:15demonstrate that we really got our arms

2:22:17around.

2:22:22>> Now we lost you. Nope.

2:22:28>> Nope. You're back.

2:22:31>> Nope. Now you're not.

2:22:37Is there a way for you to call in via

2:22:39Zoom? Is that an option?

2:22:43>> Well, or if I could call somebody's cell

2:22:44phone, you can put me up on the mic.

2:22:47>> I'm happy to do that. Why don't you do

2:22:48that and we'll keep cutting out. So, in

2:22:51the meantime, while you do that, I'm

2:22:52going to go to Council Member Advocac

2:22:54for a moment.

2:22:56>> Thank you. Um, actually

2:22:59what Councilwoman Bradberry said I'm

2:23:02intrigued by and I as far as if verbiage

2:23:06could be put in methodology driven

2:23:10um, you know, benchmarks

2:23:14something that tightens it up. So if we

2:23:16don't want to do the built for zero, if

2:23:18we want to even take you know the

2:23:21strongest components of built for zero

2:23:23without saying built for zero and

2:23:27understanding that that that is the core

2:23:30that is able to bring things together to

2:23:34get the hardest to house

2:23:36off of the streets, right? Then tighten

2:23:40up that language. So, I I agree with

2:23:43Council Councilwoman Bradberry.

2:23:47So, what do you think about that, city

2:23:50manager?

2:23:52Uh, council member, again, uh, I think

2:23:54that regardless of what program we

2:23:56pursue, it's going to include the

2:23:58outreach. It's going to include the

2:24:00support services. It's going to include

2:24:02the evaluation of uh, tiny home

2:24:04communities. it's going to there's a

2:24:07coverall and it's also in the language

2:24:09specific to it says uh um to include but

2:24:14not limited to uh those services right

2:24:17so there may be something out there that

2:24:19we don't know about cuz what what I

2:24:20envision happening uh again talking with

2:24:23Carrie again we're really trying to

2:24:25expand the services that we have in

2:24:28place and that's everything that we

2:24:29discussed in the built for zero

2:24:31discussion last week so uh again I

2:24:35really tried to take that language and I

2:24:37even made specific note of it to ask you

2:24:40as a governing body uh to make note of

2:24:42that language because that was going to

2:24:44be included uh in this ballot language.

2:24:47So again um it's broad but specific um

2:24:51where we are going to focus the funding

2:24:53is going to go towards our homeless

2:24:54services um to those points that are in

2:24:57in the ballot language.

2:25:00>> Okay. So, I'm going to push back on this

2:25:02again because I think you need to do

2:25:04some looking at what was happening

2:25:06before you got here. It was mess. Well,

2:25:11I mean, and so by tightening up the

2:25:14language, not putting built for zero,

2:25:16tightening it up with a few extra words

2:25:20that make it firmer so it's just not

2:25:22some unwieldy thing that if

2:25:25administration changes or if directors

2:25:28change or if the winds change or

2:25:32whatever the case may be that there is

2:25:35still some kind of security I uh more

2:25:38shy and security with that. So, I don't

2:25:40know why you're doubling down on this so

2:25:42much. It really is rather concern, you

2:25:46know, disconcerting to me, but that's

2:25:48where I'm going to end this conversation

2:25:50at. Thank you, Mayor.

2:25:51>> Mayor, if I could, I'm I'm open to

2:25:53language and consideration from the

2:25:54governing body. If if you guys want to

2:25:56put something specific in there, you're

2:25:58more than welcome to propose that. Uh

2:26:00again, uh I've tried to uh narrow the

2:26:03focus um based upon what we started uh

2:26:06based upon our previous discussions. So

2:26:09again, if the governing body wants to

2:26:11put something in there, I'm all open.

2:26:13Thank you.

2:26:14>> I think there's a way to look at it and

2:26:15and I'll do this to say and I'm just

2:26:18thinking here, but so it'll hold me to

2:26:19exact the language, but I think I think

2:26:21there's a way to cover both concerns.

2:26:23The concern that 8 years it passes and

2:26:24then 8 years in the program magically

2:26:27changes to zero down or something

2:26:29ridiculous and somebody who didn't like

2:26:30the tax wants to then legally challenge

2:26:32us to say you can't do it. it's not

2:26:34called built for zero versus adding

2:26:36language that specifically states it's

2:26:38going to whatever our targeted

2:26:40homelessness program

2:26:43whatever that is and and I'll I'll look

2:26:45at some of that language too so that way

2:26:46we're we're doing what you we're

2:26:48refining it but not being so but also

2:26:50not being specific and that's the

2:26:51challenge with these questions we've

2:26:53seen that with our street tax over the

2:26:54years is it was written to say only

2:26:56maintain what we have versus being able

2:26:58to use some of it on new infrastructure

2:27:00right and some of the benefits of that

2:27:01and then some of the challenges that has

2:27:03created in neighborhoods So

2:27:06>> can I just can I just say something

2:27:08about when

2:27:10>> don't put built for zero. What

2:27:12councilwoman Bradberry was saying made

2:27:15sense,

2:27:16>> right?

2:27:17>> And and because when I first started on

2:27:20council, there was not a lot that was

2:27:24consistently happening that was helping

2:27:26the homeless population. So we don't

2:27:29want to go backwards. It makes sense to

2:27:33have a methodology, a proven

2:27:36methodology. It doesn't have to be I

2:27:39mean maybe proven methodology. I'm not

2:27:42being a a hard, you know, a hard ass on

2:27:45this, but I think that it needs a little

2:27:48bit more tightening. So, and and I could

2:27:52be wrong, but I think Councilwoman

2:27:54Bradberry agrees.

2:27:56>> Yep. We'll play with some language here.

2:27:59All right, we're going to try this now.

2:28:01I'm going to hit my speaker. I'm going

2:28:03to put my

2:28:05Councilman, you're going to have to mute

2:28:07your Zoom, though,

2:28:09otherwise there's going to be feedback.

2:28:13>> All right.

2:28:15>> Okay. Um, I have no idea where my

2:28:20comments left off. You hear that?

2:28:27>> Well, I'll just pick up

2:28:33>> Well, there's there's still feedback. Is

2:28:35your

2:28:39>> I mean, you have to zoom the sound on

2:28:42your computer.

2:28:44>> Excuse me.

2:28:45>> You need to mute the sound on your

2:28:47computer itself.

2:28:49Oh,

2:28:50>> not just your talking.

2:28:57>> Maybe I need to give up. I'm not good at

2:28:59this.

2:29:02>> Just turn your volume all the way down

2:29:03on your computer.

2:29:10>> Text 101 here.

2:29:14>> Mayor, may make a suggestion.

2:29:15>> Yep. Um, if the council woman would just

2:29:19take her video off and go audio only, it

2:29:22would allow for better transmission on

2:29:24her end going to us.

2:29:28>> I think we're good. All right. You

2:29:30ready, Karen?

2:29:32>> Um, I didn't hear what he just said. So,

2:29:34>> good. I mean, not good because he's what

2:29:36he said, but that means you got your

2:29:37volume off, so now there's no feedback.

2:29:40>> Okay. [laughter]

2:29:43>> What he said was valuable. What is my

2:29:45clarify?

2:29:46>> Okay.

2:29:48Well, um, in my notes today, I I learned

2:29:51in talking with Dalton that the 2

2:29:53million a year cuts, which I know I had

2:29:57recommended before, I thought that when

2:30:00the 2 million cuts came out the first

2:30:03time, that that they strung across the

2:30:06the um budget worksheets because that 2

2:30:10million that the the preset budget would

2:30:12be $2 million lower. What he told me was

2:30:16that the way that is set up is that we

2:30:19need to cut $2 million every year.

2:30:23Um, I just wanted people to realize that

2:30:26when we're looking at what we finally

2:30:28want to do.

2:30:32Um,

2:30:34and I I think did did people hear my

2:30:36conversation about pulling the fire

2:30:38stations out no matter what?

2:30:40>> Yes.

2:30:41>> Okay.

2:30:42Um,

2:30:46I think that's the people have the

2:30:48particulars that I sent out. Otherwise,

2:30:50I'd like to to support uh comments that

2:30:53were made particularly by Councilwoman

2:30:55Bradberry. I think I didn't get a chance

2:30:58to say anything during the strategic

2:31:00plan, but I am very much hoping that our

2:31:03strategic plan isn't just a list of

2:31:05goals now, but is the kind of strategic

2:31:08plan that we did in 2021, which

2:31:11identified our primary purposes as a

2:31:13city government and then then put things

2:31:17underneath that with outcomes

2:31:20um afterward. I think that will help us

2:31:22focus on on the priorities of the

2:31:26projects that city manager is suggesting

2:31:28we do. Um we do need to balance those

2:31:31against budget as well and the staffing

2:31:34that we have.

2:31:36One of the reasons I guess I'll back up.

2:31:38One of the reasons I felt like maybe we

2:31:41should go in March after all was I feel

2:31:44like it's been really stressful for our

2:31:47staff to not know what was going to

2:31:49happen.

2:31:51So I would just throw that out for

2:31:54people's consideration as well.

2:31:57If we did some cuts right away and went

2:31:59ahead and did the vote in March, then in

2:32:02April everybody would know where we're

2:32:04at.

2:32:05So, just some thoughts.

2:32:08>> Thank you.

2:32:09>> Thank you,

2:32:11>> Council Member McGee.

2:32:13>> Thank you, Mayor. Um, you know, I'm I'm

2:32:16good with the

2:32:18affordable housing and homeless programs

2:32:22with the language uh suggestions that uh

2:32:26can council member Bradberry offered. I

2:32:30am concerned with language on this other

2:32:33part about personnel and and acquisition

2:32:37of vehicles.

2:32:39So,

2:32:41you know, and and also last time last

2:32:43week we talked a lot about getting

2:32:46community input

2:32:49and I'm not I'm not hearing that part

2:32:52this evening. Um,

2:32:55so that

2:32:58that's a concern for me. I I think we

2:33:00need input. I I would be comfortable

2:33:03with moving forward with

2:33:06the affordable housing and

2:33:10homeless programs because I I think

2:33:12we've discussed a a way to tweak that

2:33:15language and and see a path forward

2:33:18uh for that.

2:33:20But I think we've got a ways to go on

2:33:22these the other parts of this.

2:33:25That's my thoughts on it. Thank you,

2:33:30>> Council Member Kell.

2:33:32I

2:33:32>> I think for what we we get return on our

2:33:35investment after what we have to pay

2:33:36[clears throat] for the election that

2:33:38it's not very feasible to pay out that

2:33:41just to turn around and gain so much

2:33:43over that you know what March 6month

2:33:47period that we we'd be losing money pro

2:33:50possibly in that scenario. So to me,

2:33:52it's it's best we just wait for all

2:33:54these, allow the community to have all

2:33:55their input into this, you know, know

2:33:58know that we have a set date that we're

2:34:00working towards rather than trying to

2:34:02rush it through like we have been and

2:34:06just do it all on the on the general

2:34:08election or primary election, excuse me,

2:34:11in August because uh if we try to push

2:34:13anything through and try to get through

2:34:14March, I think a lot of a lot in the

2:34:16community are are going to think we're

2:34:17just ramming this down their throat to

2:34:19try to get a yes on this. Plus, if we

2:34:23spend more than we're going to make in

2:34:24that six months, then what's what was

2:34:26kind of the really the point to rush it

2:34:27through? So, I think everything should

2:34:30kind of just wait till August

2:34:32where we're not paying anything to do it

2:34:34at that point. And

2:34:35>> I'll just review those numbers real

2:34:36quick. An election mail ballot's about

2:34:38$118,000.

2:34:40Uh would kick in if if it was approved

2:34:42in March, it would kick in July one.

2:34:44Half the year collection would be a

2:34:46little over $2 million.

2:34:48So, Council Member Bradberry. Oh, is

2:34:50that is that your question? Okay. Yeah.

2:34:53Okay.

2:34:56Any other questions or comments on this?

2:34:58>> I did. I just texted you.

2:35:01>> Oh,

2:35:01>> I just wanted to say I agree with

2:35:03Councilman Kell,

2:35:05>> Deputy Mayor.

2:35:09>> Okay. I'm in a little bit different line

2:35:12of questions

2:35:14and I'm looking specifically at the um

2:35:18affordable housing and homeless

2:35:20services. I'm trying to figure out how

2:35:22this works.

2:35:24We had a million dollars to spend. We

2:35:26didn't spend a million dollars.

2:35:28So, what happens

2:35:30with the money in any year that we do

2:35:33not spend what is there? Is it sitting

2:35:37there in a fund and keeps accumulating?

2:35:41>> That's correct. Yes, ma'am.

2:35:42>> And is there a point at which it's

2:35:48an extreme amount of money just sitting

2:35:50there if we can't figure out how to to

2:35:53use it?

2:35:55That's one of the concerns. The other

2:35:57one is if it's not working,

2:36:00is there any kind of trigger action to

2:36:04stop it? Say we've got $10 million

2:36:08sitting there and we're not making

2:36:11progress on affordable housing or

2:36:13homeless, one of them.

2:36:17It's not fair to have that money sitting

2:36:19there and keep being charged to

2:36:20citizens.

2:36:22Um, is there a trigger to be able to

2:36:26cancel it

2:36:28before the 10 years is up?

2:36:31Or say if unbelievably we have no

2:36:35homeless,

2:36:38that money would be there'd be nothing

2:36:40to spend it on and we've got two or

2:36:43three years more. Do we have a way to

2:36:46stop collecting it?

2:36:49I'm just trying to think of every

2:36:51possible scenario and I don't want

2:36:53people to think that we're just going to

2:36:54have money

2:36:57needlessly collected.

2:37:02I just I don't totally understand how a

2:37:05sales tax collect this is the first one

2:37:08I've dealt with. So I'm asking because I

2:37:11don't know how that works.

2:37:14>> Well, I mean I'll answer a little bit of

2:37:16that. I mean, that money would

2:37:17accumulate and if 10 years go by and the

2:37:18citizens don't think that we've spent it

2:37:20at all, then they probably won't renew

2:37:23that 10-year tax. I'll say on the

2:37:25affordable house trap fund front, um,

2:37:28and you're right, who knows what that

2:37:29accumulation would look like. I will say

2:37:31though that they knew going into those

2:37:33those initial million dollar

2:37:35expenditures that that's all they had.

2:37:37That to date we haven't put any

2:37:39additional funds. And I guarantee had

2:37:41they been able to open that up to more

2:37:43companies, they would have been able to

2:37:45use more than that million dollars. Now,

2:37:47one of them's had to back off and that's

2:37:49a different issue. But so I don't think

2:37:51that's going to be an issue over the

2:37:52next 10 years. I think sadly spending $2

2:37:55million a year on housing will be pretty

2:37:57easy, especially with the cost of

2:37:58housing. I think your point on

2:38:00homelessness, that's why we built in

2:38:01some fluctuation that if that money

2:38:03isn't, you know, first of all, I don't

2:38:05think we're going to get rid of

2:38:06homelessness unless we have a continual

2:38:07fund that lets us make sure there's no

2:38:09new homelessness, right? But that's why

2:38:12the question has tried to be written so

2:38:13that if we needed to float some of that

2:38:14money over to homelessness programs, it

2:38:16could float if it needed to to the

2:38:18housing programs which could also

2:38:19service the homeless. So those are valid

2:38:21questions and I too, you know, as I

2:38:23said, have have questions about the tax

2:38:25itself. But I do think over time that's

2:38:27why you put a sun basically that's why

2:38:28you all your questions are why you have

2:38:29sunsets on these things so that they're

2:38:32not in perpetuity and you just build up

2:38:34forever. and deputy mayor to your to

2:38:36your questions ma'am. Um Kansas uh

2:38:39Department of Revenues website um states

2:38:43uh city sales tax may be repealed by

2:38:45adoption of an ordinance by the

2:38:46governing board of the city and that uh

2:38:50changes uh [snorts] the question is what

2:38:52are the dates that the tax can be

2:38:53imposed changed or repealed? Changes to

2:38:55local sales tax rates are made quarterly

2:38:57on January 1, April 1, July 1 and

2:38:59October 1.

2:39:00>> Okay.

2:39:00>> So um again uh and I'll send you this

2:39:03website. I'll send it to the whole

2:39:04governing body. Um so you can see that.

2:39:07But um I think that we're we have a

2:39:09little for for us as a city, we have a

2:39:12little bit more flexibility on how we

2:39:14repeal it. Uh as opposed to a county uh

2:39:17that they have to they have to actually

2:39:19get a majority of voters in in an

2:39:21election to repeal theirs. So ours u per

2:39:24this website city sales tax may be

2:39:26repealed by adoption of an ordinance by

2:39:28the governing board of the city.

2:39:30I just want to make sure that we have

2:39:32flexibility.

2:39:34>> Yes, ma'am.

2:39:35>> Okay, that's all I'm

2:39:37>> Council member Banks.

2:39:39>> Thank you, Mayor.

2:39:42Uh, I don't have a whole bunch to say

2:39:44about questioning, but uh we knew that

2:39:48there was going to be language issues

2:39:51when we uh first started talking about

2:39:54this process. And it seems to me like

2:39:58tonight we just been buried in what

2:40:00about the language? We got until August,

2:40:03March, whatever to work through whatever

2:40:06this process is going to be. I would

2:40:09just like to say thank you city manager

2:40:11for the work that you've put in. This is

2:40:13what we ask you to do and to me it's

2:40:16getting there. Uh I don't know

2:40:20if March is going to work. We all know

2:40:22that the citizens of this community is

2:40:24not going to be happy when we uh put

2:40:27this proposal out there. But I think

2:40:29that if they're given

2:40:32all of the the facts about what we need,

2:40:35how we need it, uh how much money we

2:40:37really have, how much we're spending in

2:40:40different areas, if it's clear to them,

2:40:43then that makes a difference. Language I

2:40:46think that we can work through. Thank

2:40:48you, city manager. Council Member

2:40:52Miller.

2:40:53>> Thank you, Mayor. Um, just in general,

2:40:55the or not just in general, for the new

2:40:57general sales tax ballot language, I

2:40:59don't think that is specific enough. Um,

2:41:02I don't necessarily like the acquisition

2:41:05of vehicles and equipment. Um, that I

2:41:08mean, you got to little be a little more

2:41:10detailed just like Councilwoman Ortiz

2:41:11was talking about. Um, for for a vast

2:41:15majority of people to be able to support

2:41:17that. Um, I do think we have a good

2:41:20number of people who will support the

2:41:22affordable homes and the homeless

2:41:25services and that initiative right

2:41:28there. I think there's an amount of

2:41:29people who would support that. Um,

2:41:35I will say I I agree with the the

2:41:37recommendation and language for renewal

2:41:39of the infrastructure special sales tax.

2:41:41Um, and I'm a big believer in the city

2:41:44auditor. I I think we need to do it. You

2:41:47know, I um this is something that the

2:41:50people have been asking for for a while.

2:41:51Um this is it's more of our

2:41:53transparency. So, I like the way that

2:41:54you have it written. Um I appreciate the

2:41:56language from legal. Um I think that

2:41:59that's specific enough and adds just the

2:42:01amount of language that we need for it

2:42:03to be what it's for it to do what it's

2:42:07supposed to do. I think the language is

2:42:09correct right there. So, um I will

2:42:11support those things. Um,

2:42:14when it comes to the timing, um, I I I

2:42:18don't know if two different tax

2:42:20questions at two different times would

2:42:22be beneficial for our community. I think

2:42:24they would need to be they knock them

2:42:26out all at once. Um,

2:42:29you know, I I'm I I understand the

2:42:32thought of trying to save money by not

2:42:35going with the mail in, but I think the

2:42:38sooner we can figure out if the citizens

2:42:40want this stuff or not, the better. Um,

2:42:43but that's just my thoughts. Thank you,

2:42:45>> Council Member Ortiz.

2:42:48>> You know, as I'm sitting here listening

2:42:50and thinking about a homeless situation,

2:42:54wonder if we could put some or if we

2:42:56would be you guys would be open to there

2:42:57was a a couple here that was homeless.

2:43:00They just wanted um some money to go

2:43:03back home. And I wonder if if we could

2:43:08put that in a wording, some type of

2:43:10wording to do that.

2:43:11>> [music]

2:43:11>> Um they were at Shunga on Shunga Creek

2:43:15at least for two or three weeks and then

2:43:18um I think there was some members of the

2:43:22city that got together and

2:43:25um got them a ticket to go back home.

2:43:29So, so part of the discussion um as we

2:43:32mentioned earlier to pick a first policy

2:43:35um that that's definitely something that

2:43:37we would uh look to facilitate um if

2:43:41somebody had a better support system in

2:43:43another city um family or um something

2:43:48else um and they were experiencing

2:43:50homelessness and we had the opportunity

2:43:52to help get them there. We would

2:43:54definitely consider that as part of that

2:43:56policy. [clears throat]

2:43:59So not not this

2:44:01>> well again this again uh the language in

2:44:04there uh uh that's specific but not

2:44:08limited to those services again um that

2:44:12that's part of the the language that

2:44:13that we've written in so that way we can

2:44:15still stay general so we can still do

2:44:17that but again the outreach the

2:44:20>> that's not an outreach service though

2:44:22>> well and that's why it says um that's

2:44:24why it says let me grab it real

2:44:32operating cost of homeless.

2:44:33>> So yeah, so it says um not more than

2:44:36half of the revenue going towards the

2:44:38construction and operating cost of

2:44:39homeless initiatives, including but not

2:44:41limited to outreach services, rental

2:44:44assistance, and affordable housing. So

2:44:47again, we're we're trying to capture the

2:44:49spirit of Built for Zero initiatives,

2:44:51but also leave it broad enough. I I I

2:44:54don't know if I don't know if Built for

2:44:55Zero says, "Hey, we'll help you

2:44:57transport to another city." Um so again,

2:45:00that's why we said including but not

2:45:02limited to um that type of service.

2:45:07So again, it it would be our

2:45:08homelessness efforts as a whole. Um but

2:45:11again um again trying to capture the

2:45:14spirit of what we discussed last week is

2:45:16what we try to include in this.

2:45:18>> It was a friendly amendment. What if you

2:45:20simply added transportation services in

2:45:23that including but not limited to and

2:45:25add transportation services because that

2:45:28could mean

2:45:29>> around town helping them get around town

2:45:31to get to the services from the camps.

2:45:34It could also mean providing them

2:45:36transportation because of a community

2:45:38first initiative in terms of getting

2:45:39them back to their their home.

2:45:42>> You know, Braxton, I kind of like that.

2:45:47>> All right.

2:45:51I'd like [clears throat] to see us

2:45:52implement that. And I know my attorney's

2:45:54watching, so I'd like him to give me a

2:45:55call tomorrow so he could look at this.

2:45:57>> Getting late. He might be in bed by

2:45:58>> He might be, but I'll send this to him

2:46:00anyway.

2:46:01>> Deputy Mayor.

2:46:04>> Oh, will you just cut me off?

2:46:05>> I thought you were done. You were

2:46:06reaching for your mic. I apologize,

2:46:08Council Member Ortiz.

2:46:10>> So, I'd like us to put something like

2:46:12that in.

2:46:13>> Yes, ma'am.

2:46:14>> Thank you, Mr. Mayor. [laughter]

2:46:16Deputy Mayor,

2:46:18>> my next question, I'm thinking more

2:46:20practicalities.

2:46:22Say the homeless initiative goes forward

2:46:26and the affordable housing.

2:46:30I understand the affordable housing

2:46:33portion goes the affordable housing

2:46:34trust fund, but how do we and

2:46:41do we write guidelines

2:46:44based on what is written here for how it

2:46:46can be spent?

2:46:49Is it something that is language that

2:46:52the affordable trust fund they have kind

2:46:56of their language? We don't have

2:46:58anything

2:47:00specific is are there more specific

2:47:03guidelines that we have to create after

2:47:06this has been passed?

2:47:08>> Yes. Um

2:47:09>> and who handles it?

2:47:10>> So, we would probably work with Car's

2:47:12team um to spearhead that effort. Uh I

2:47:15can see again with the community

2:47:17partners that we have working on that

2:47:19effort. Um I can see community input um

2:47:23helping us to craft that before bringing

2:47:25those budgets to council for

2:47:27consideration. And it's the same thing

2:47:28with the general sales tax

2:47:31>> to to a point. I I would I would point

2:47:33out that our budget, our annual budget

2:47:36tells us what we would spend those

2:47:37dollars on. Um because again, you want

2:47:41specifics, as I tried to share with with

2:47:44the governing body last week, the 1% uh

2:47:49uh general sales tax that we have, we

2:47:51don't allocate it by, oh, it's, you

2:47:53know, 10% is going to go on police. And

2:47:56so again, I I try to um I I I try to be

2:48:00specific, but at the same time, too, uh

2:48:02that that's why we're we're putting in

2:48:04here, you know, not more than $15

2:48:06million, not more than $5 million. Um

2:48:09because, again, um we we budget by

2:48:12department level and not necessarily,

2:48:15you know, 10% of the existing sales tax

2:48:17and 5% of the existing sales tax. It's

2:48:20it just goes to the overall general fund

2:48:23budget. So, so that and I guess that's

2:48:25part of my challenge with the idea of

2:48:27this is just a slush fund. No, you can

2:48:30see where the revenues come in to the

2:48:31budget. You can see where the

2:48:33expenditures are programmed. Uh, again,

2:48:35the reporting that I plan to do on a

2:48:37monthly basis will show you exactly how

2:48:39much we're collecting in sales tax, how

2:48:41much in property tax, etc. And on a

2:48:44monthly basis, see where it's expended

2:48:46by department. So,

2:48:48>> that's something I wanted to know. Yes,

2:48:50ma'am. there's reporting that goes with

2:48:51it that we find out how [clears throat]

2:48:53it is being spent.

2:48:54>> No, of of course. Uh again, um it'll be

2:48:57in the it'll be in our sales tax line

2:48:59item um that that you [clears throat]

2:49:01see coming into the general fund.

2:49:04>> I'm just trying to figure out in my head

2:49:05how this works going forward once it's

2:49:08approved.

2:49:08>> Yeah. Um yeah. So, so moving forward

2:49:11again, uh our budgets will change by if

2:49:13approved uh by the governing body and

2:49:15the voters. that annual $20 million,

2:49:18you'll see our sales tax budget go up by

2:49:20$20 million. You'll see our expenditures

2:49:22go up by that similar amount.

2:49:26>> Okay.

2:49:30>> Council member Ortiz.

2:49:32>> Well, thank you, Mr. Mayor.

2:49:36I'm going to go to page 14. Um, and I'd

2:49:39like to ask my colleagues to take the

2:49:41existing word out

2:49:45and to consider that and take it out

2:49:47because I pay for a sales tax, a street

2:49:50sales tax that and I don't get the same

2:49:52benefits every as everybody else.

2:49:57>> I agree with you, council member.

2:49:59>> Thank you. But

2:50:00>> I guarantee you we are not ready to put

2:50:02that question on the ballot in March.

2:50:03So, we will have a lot of time. I'm just

2:50:06putting it on the record right now. So,

2:50:08Brenda can mark that in there because

2:50:10[laughter]

2:50:11>> I'm tired. I would like a curb, a

2:50:13gutter,

2:50:13>> and not a ditch.

2:50:15>> So,

2:50:15>> thank you, Mr. Mayor.

2:50:16>> All right.

2:50:17>> And mayor, to that point, council

2:50:19member, I think that's where the IMP

2:50:20that we want to develop will be very

2:50:22helpful because

2:50:23>> I don't need to tell you where what I

2:50:26have

2:50:26>> in my neighborhood and what I've been

2:50:28paying for for the last 20ome years. I

2:50:31don't need that, city manager. With all

2:50:33due respect,

2:50:33>> yes, ma'am. Understood.

2:50:35>> And and and district three, district

2:50:38two, a whole bunch of us have paid for

2:50:40it. And we don't get it.

2:50:43>> Okay.

2:50:45>> But I bet if Spencer went down his

2:50:47street, he'd get something. You know,

2:50:49>> my neighbors know my street's the last

2:50:51one. Now he's the mayor. That's how that

2:50:53works.

2:50:56>> All right. So, here's what I'd like to

2:50:57do. I'm going to take all the feedback

2:50:59on the housing question. see if we can

2:51:02rewrite something that gets us closer.

2:51:04And next week, if we think that we're

2:51:06ready to move anything like housing and

2:51:08auditor to March, we can have that

2:51:09conversation definitively. And if we're

2:51:11not, that's fine, too. Um, if anyone

2:51:15else is interested in anything else

2:51:17moving next week to a March ballot, a

2:51:19broader question, you need to do that

2:51:21work yourself because, as I said, I

2:51:24don't think we're ready for that. Um,

2:51:25but I'm happy to to do the other part so

2:51:28we can at least because we got to make a

2:51:29decision next week, one way or the

2:51:30other. So, I'll I'll try to have that

2:51:32stuff ready for everybody with the

2:51:33feedback we got tonight and I'll try to

2:51:35get it sent out before the weekend so

2:51:36you have some time to contemplate it and

2:51:38before it just hits Tuesday night. So,

2:51:40and we'll go from there.

2:51:43>> Any other comments or questions? And

2:51:45it's a rhetorical question. We're done

2:51:46with this conversation for the evening.

2:51:48>> Thank you all. Appreciate [laughter] it.

2:51:49>> Thank you.

2:51:52>> With that, it's a little getting later.

2:51:55We have public comment left. We are

2:51:57going to take a 10-minute break um and

2:51:59then we'll come back for public comment.

2:52:01So, please be back here at about 2 after

2:52:029.

2:52:16All right, we are back. It is now moving

2:52:18on to agenda item public comment.

2:52:22Again, we have a number of people signed

2:52:23up this evening, so we will stick to our

2:52:25four-minute time limit. First up, Mr.

2:52:28Joseph Led Better.

2:52:29>> Thank you.

2:52:34Give me a 26% return.

2:52:38[cough and clears throat]

2:52:40>> You sign up for public comment.

2:52:43Trying to talk to them. Uh good evening

2:52:46governing body. Thank you. Uh the topic

2:52:49I want to talk about tonight uh is is

2:52:52one that everybody's talking about. We

2:52:54all know what it is. It's roads, roads,

2:52:56roads. And uh

2:52:59what is amazing to me is how many roads

2:53:03east and west have now been just

2:53:06basically broken. I mean, they're in

2:53:07they're in parts. Uh 37th, Croy, 29th,

2:53:1117th, Hon,

2:53:13a good part of E6, although there is

2:53:15two-way traffic there. It's tight.

2:53:18And then we've got uh Topeka Boulevard

2:53:21which has been ongoing for two years and

2:53:23it's going to continue on for maybe a

2:53:25millennial, I don't know. We've got

2:53:28Fairline has been uh shut down for

2:53:31probably going on 14 months now. Uh

2:53:34Indiana is a mess. Um I've never seen

2:53:37this many roads shut off and and many

2:53:41not being worked on for long periods of

2:53:43time. And I would invite, you know, the

2:53:47upper management to get out and actually

2:53:49drive by these work sites and see how

2:53:51many people there really are at the work

2:53:53sites. Uh because that's what people

2:53:56notice. They're not asking you to start

2:53:59more road projects. They're they're

2:54:00asking you to finish them and so they

2:54:03can get through and do their shopping

2:54:05and do their errands, uh get to places

2:54:07they need to go, grocery stores, doctor

2:54:10appointments, etc. One of the things

2:54:12that also concerns me about the

2:54:15multitude of road closures we've got is

2:54:17when I was on the uh Metropolitan uh

2:54:20transit authority, we had two major

2:54:23roads that were interfering with our uh

2:54:26bus service and it was causing a lot of

2:54:29uh angst. Uh I've been told now they've

2:54:32got at least six of their routes are

2:54:34affected. So here's people that don't

2:54:37have [clears throat] a lot of money.

2:54:38They're using our bus service, which I

2:54:40encourage. That's good. Uh to get to

2:54:43their doctor appointments, get to the

2:54:44store. You see them with shopping bags.

2:54:46I mean, uh this is a wellused uh entity.

2:54:51There's about a million uh customer mile

2:54:53or customer uses per year as long as you

2:54:57have the roads open. But I'm seeing

2:54:59buses happen to they're trying to go

2:55:01through Hon. So, they're driving by down

2:55:04Mallister to get back over. They're

2:55:06jogging six or seven uh blocks. And

2:55:09that's just one example, probably a

2:55:12small example. Uh, Hon was supposed to

2:55:15be done in I think my sister gave me the

2:55:19handout cuz she's on Mallister. I think

2:55:22it was originally 6 weeks. And of

2:55:25course, that's going on and on. And

2:55:29we've got a farmer in the room. U Carol,

2:55:34you're running out of sunshine. I I've

2:55:36heard farmers say that you are not going

2:55:39to complete your projects. You've got to

2:55:41get moving. You've gota It's all hands

2:55:44on deck at this point. Uh you got less

2:55:47than about 45 days of good construction

2:55:50weather left. Now, this is in Topeka,

2:55:51Kansas, not south here. And we've got to

2:55:56focus on the weather here and understand

2:55:58the weather here. And one of the things

2:56:00that bothers me is I got this uh core

2:56:04request I've filled out uh for the

2:56:07amount of money we're spending on out a

2:56:10lot of them are out of town consultants

2:56:12that are part of these road projects.

2:56:14And it's 10 million uh over the last two

2:56:17years uh with utilities and about 10

2:56:20million a year give or take a few

2:56:22million but it's about 38 million total

2:56:24with uh public works. And so maybe we're

2:56:29actually doing so much analysis we're

2:56:31creating paralysis. I don't know what's

2:56:34going on, but we have got to turn this

2:56:36ship around. We cannot continue this way

2:56:39with our roads. And you're going to cost

2:56:41yourself sales tax. Thank you for your

2:56:43time.

2:56:44>> Thank you. [clears throat] Next up,

2:56:46Katherine Andre.

2:56:53>> Thank you. Uh, I wanted to speak tonight

2:56:55about hypers scale data centers and um,

2:56:58I've been going down lots of rabbit

2:56:59holes and researching for months and

2:57:01months and I thought it was interesting.

2:57:02The presentation tonight said that

2:57:04they're using updated technology because

2:57:06what I want to present tonight is that

2:57:07if it really was updated technology, it

2:57:09does not require hypers scale data

2:57:11centers. That took a lot for me to

2:57:13understand. I want to present a couple

2:57:16people with some valid credentials that

2:57:17I really think would be great if we

2:57:19could uh, have come here on Zoom or in

2:57:21person. The first one is John Valentine.

2:57:24He's from Celo, Texas. He's been going

2:57:26around speaking in front of state

2:57:27legislatores and business groups. He's

2:57:30an AI expert. He actually built the eBay

2:57:33fraud detection center. He created the

2:57:35TSA no-fly list, etc. Him and his

2:57:38partners run a software company and they

2:57:39do sophisticated AI programs without

2:57:42hyperscale data centers. How does he do

2:57:45this? Well, they're currently building

2:57:46AI systems and running applications on

2:57:49Apple computers that you can hold on

2:57:51your hand. In his testimony, he says he

2:57:54runs an AI system application in 9

2:57:56minutes that takes a hypers scale data

2:57:58center 92 hours to run. So the question

2:58:02is what are these AI hypers scale

2:58:04[clears throat] data centers being used

2:58:05for? He uses what's called distributed

2:58:08computing technology

2:58:10and he says in his testimony that it is

2:58:12a total fraud being perpetrated on the

2:58:14American public that we need these

2:58:16hypers scale data centers to do AI

2:58:18technology. Um, that's [clears throat]

2:58:20the first person I wanted to talk about

2:58:22and I will pass out papers with his name

2:58:24and uh a link to his testimony. The

2:58:27second person is uh Kristen Megan Kelly

2:58:30who is an industrial hygienist and

2:58:32that's somebody that we definitely need

2:58:34in this conversation because what do

2:58:36they do? They assess hazards in all

2:58:38types of industrial settings. Um Kristen

2:58:41Megan Kelly is a 24year senior in this

2:58:44field. She's worked in military and

2:58:46across many industries and she has

2:58:48asserted just like John Valentine that

2:58:51the um there is no need for hyperscale

2:58:54data centers to do the AI quantum

2:58:57processing that it is a total fraud. For

2:59:00example, quantum computations and

2:59:03fractal technology does not require

2:59:06hypers scale data centers. I know these

2:59:07are big words and it's there's a lot to

2:59:09learn but it's very interesting. Um,

2:59:11quantum computers have the potential to

2:59:13complete calculations exponentially

2:59:15faster than regular computers and

2:59:17fractal technology. They do not need

2:59:19hypers scale data centers. Um, another

2:59:22credible expert who is also an

2:59:24industrial hygienist, uh, Tammy Clark

2:59:27and you can find all these people

2:59:28online. They've been in the business for

2:59:30over 20 years.

2:59:33She also says a talks about a lot of the

2:59:35concerns about these hypers scale data

2:59:37centers particularly this idea of closed

2:59:40loop systems. Now the last person I want

2:59:44to mention as a credible resources Aaron

2:59:45Brochovich. We all saw the movie. It's a

2:59:48great time to see it again. um she has

2:59:50created a data center online and she has

2:59:53people from all over the United States

2:59:55and other countries calling in with all

2:59:58the problems that they're experiencing

3:00:00with data centers in their areas. I

3:00:02basically say that this is uh PG&E uh

3:00:062.0 I know that um these cooling towers

3:00:09that were used in Hinckley, California

3:00:1120 odd years ago, just like these data

3:00:14centers today, they have to do blowout

3:00:16in these cooling centers and it's filled

3:00:18with anti-corrosives. They get in the

3:00:20water in the ponds just like at PG& in

3:00:23California. Hinckley now California is a

3:00:26ghost town. People there got cancer. You

3:00:28know the story. But they also do the

3:00:31same thing these data centers do. They

3:00:33said they lined the ponds but all the

3:00:35corros got in the water contaminated the

3:00:37whole city of Hinckley, California. So

3:00:39Aaron Brockovich is another great

3:00:41resource. Um I just believe that these

3:00:43hypers scale data centers are a

3:00:45completely new animal and we need to get

3:00:47some of these great experts in like I've

3:00:49just mentioned three of them. So I hope

3:00:50that we can pursue that and I'll pass

3:00:52out the papers so you can see them.

3:00:54Thank you.

3:00:54>> Thank you ma'am. Next up I have Scott

3:00:57Henson.

3:01:02Scott Henson. Is there Kim? Is there

3:01:05Scott Henson online? Just to make sure

3:01:07because I know some people audible.

3:01:12Okay, next up then I have Sandra

3:01:15Lacader.

3:01:21I was going to say I was going to say

3:01:22good evening, but maybe it should be

3:01:23good night. But at any rate, real

3:01:25quickly, um, we have a great jo uh,

3:01:28Dollar General there on 37th Street and

3:01:30I have a 1 1234. Mr. Miller, are you

3:01:33going to listen to me?

3:01:34>> I am. I can hear you. I can walk and

3:01:35listen. I'm

3:01:37>> This is important. E, but anyway, that's

3:01:39our area. Thank you, sir. I was just

3:01:41teasing you. Okay. But anyway, there's

3:01:43an accident getting ready to happen, and

3:01:45that's when someone exits from that

3:01:47Dollar General, and someone's going down

3:01:49that uh, gauge. It's just just about to

3:01:52happen. And I've had a number of people

3:01:54already say, "What are we going to do?"

3:01:56I said, "Well, we need to talk to the

3:01:57council or the public works or

3:01:59whatever." They're like, "They won't

3:02:00listen to me." I said, "Well, they'll

3:02:01have to listen to me cuz I'm coming and

3:02:03this is our area. We need a crosswalk

3:02:06there and there are some college

3:02:08students and other children walking

3:02:09across there. We need a crosswalk that

3:02:12has a light or the button or whatever."

3:02:1437th Engaged and I know we're probably

3:02:16dealing with public works. Now, I

3:02:17actually started out to blame Mr. Henry

3:02:19Mccclure that that was his area. And he

3:02:21said, "Sandy, it's not me." I said,

3:02:23"Okay, good. I'm going to the council.

3:02:24I'll catch you later." All righty. And

3:02:26then for God's sakes, please open up

3:02:30Topeka Boulevard. Topeka Boulevard is

3:02:34Highway 75. It's a highway. There are

3:02:37people that come through here nationally

3:02:39and they want to drive through Topeka

3:02:41Boulevard and they have to go through a

3:02:42maze in the neighborhood. I even have to

3:02:44do it. It's amazing. And we need to open

3:02:46it up. and I realize we've been working

3:02:48on it a long time. Mr. Braxton has

3:02:50really helped me a lot because I get

3:02:52excited and I go to him and he really

3:02:54does a good job. Now, I'm going to go

3:02:56over here real quickly to about Mr.

3:02:57Braxton. I'm not going to call your

3:02:58name, but you're the uh deputy manager.

3:03:01I understand you're going to be leaving.

3:03:03I don't think that's the secret. And

3:03:05you've been very responsible with a lot

3:03:06of different jobs and responsibilities.

3:03:08However, I understand that there's going

3:03:10to be a discussion about city manager or

3:03:13city managers. This is October and I'm

3:03:17not trying to throw anybody under the

3:03:18bus, but I want us to get on the same

3:03:20bus to help our citizens in this city.

3:03:23And I think and others think that we

3:03:26should freeze that uh manager position

3:03:29that you have, Mr. CPPley, and we should

3:03:32freeze that salary and we should

3:03:34transfer all of your responsibilities to

3:03:36the other two managers that are here

3:03:38since we have three of them and you'll

3:03:40be gone. And do not give them a raise.

3:03:45Because at this point our two managers

3:03:46are getting about a half million dollars

3:03:48as it is. The monies could be used in

3:03:51other areas. Our people have a voice. We

3:03:55are not being negligent. We're not

3:03:57making an indictment. But we keep

3:03:58talking about the monies. There are

3:04:00areas where we can trim it. You will

3:04:03survive. Most of us are now dealing with

3:04:05our um groceries. We're dealing with our

3:04:08insurance. We're dealing with the common

3:04:10people. and we all need to come around

3:04:11here and walk around here with everybody

3:04:13else. I understand that it would be

3:04:15better for us to be silent, but we will

3:04:18not be silent. We have a voice of the

3:04:20voice of the people and we have a

3:04:22concern. I think you're doing an

3:04:24interesting job and being a nice person

3:04:26is one thing, but being responsible it

3:04:29costs to be the boss. And as an

3:04:30administrator, I've heard that too many

3:04:32times when a problem would come up, they

3:04:34say, "Oh, you're making the big bucks.

3:04:36You ought to be able to solve it." Yeah,

3:04:37but it's not always that easy. But you

3:04:39have to be a courageous leader. You have

3:04:41to listen to the people. You have to

3:04:43understand your positioning. And if you

3:04:46can do the job, fine. If you can't,

3:04:48let's move on. Thank you for your time.

3:04:50>> Thank you. Next up, Martha Boatight,

3:04:54who's on Zoom.

3:04:58>> Uh, you know, I had signed up to talk

3:05:00about the data centers, but it sounds

3:05:01like that's just going to be beating a

3:05:03dead horse. I think y'all hate him as

3:05:05much as we do, so I'm going to pass for

3:05:06the night.

3:05:07>> All right. Next up, Jerry Cummings.

3:05:15>> Hello. Um, I live in Baritton, Kansas,

3:05:18and I've lived out there for quite a

3:05:20while. My folks moved out there in 74,

3:05:23uh, before I started high school, and,

3:05:25uh, they bought an old house and fixed

3:05:27it up, and and then when I got married,

3:05:30my husband and I bought 10 acres next

3:05:32door to them. and we turned the barn

3:05:34that went to that old house into a house

3:05:36and we lived in it and we built it

3:05:37ourselves.

3:05:39We're not going anywhere and that's our

3:05:42home. When we moved out there, Forbes

3:05:45was defunct. It had been closed and it

3:05:48was a peaceful, quiet, country place.

3:05:50Well, then National Guard moved in and

3:05:53the planes are loud, but you know, it

3:05:55comes and goes. Well, then the shooting

3:05:58range and it's gotten worse because now

3:06:00they're blowing up bombs over there and

3:06:02they're shooting off automatic weapons.

3:06:04So, we have even more noise, but it

3:06:07stops.

3:06:09It seems like they always want to do it

3:06:10though on the beautiful days when it's

3:06:12nice out and I want to be outside

3:06:13enjoying my yard. But data centers is a

3:06:16totally different animal. It's a

3:06:18non-stop hum and a lot of the people who

3:06:21live around the ones that are existing

3:06:23are getting sick. A lot of them are

3:06:26showing signs of uh the same things that

3:06:29you would have happen to you if you were

3:06:31exposed to radiation.

3:06:33You know, um the thing is is if you call

3:06:36it AI, SI tech centers, data centers,

3:06:41we're not beholding to a bunch of tech

3:06:44billionaires. They don't live here.

3:06:46They're not your constituents. They

3:06:48don't pay taxes here. They haven't been

3:06:51here for a long time. and they're just

3:06:53another Johnny come lately who wants to

3:06:55come in create a huge thing that

3:06:59probably in 20 years is going to be

3:07:00vacant and then you're left trying to

3:07:01figure out how to clean up the mess.

3:07:04The biggest thing is is it's going to

3:07:06affect people's health, their health. It

3:07:10we don't need anything like that out

3:07:12there. And just as the other woman

3:07:15finished saying, um, there are methods

3:07:19out there that they can use without

3:07:21using all of the the water and

3:07:24electricity and and being an annoyance.

3:07:27The reason why they want to do it the

3:07:29way they're doing it is because it's

3:07:30cheap. And we don't need all of this

3:07:34data centers anyway. I mean, what are

3:07:37they using it for? You go to Target or

3:07:40Walmart and they have special shopping

3:07:42carts now that connects to your phone

3:07:45without you even knowing it and it looks

3:07:47at what you've been window shopping for

3:07:49and then it decides what you're going to

3:07:50pay when you get to the cash register.

3:07:53You're not paying the same thing as the

3:07:55person next to you. I'm not shopping at

3:07:57either one of those stores anymore

3:07:59because well, I've never shopped at

3:08:01Walmart. But you know the thing is is

3:08:04that is what they need all these data

3:08:05centers for is for all of the

3:08:07information they're collecting from us,

3:08:09stealing from us, mining from our

3:08:11personal devices.

3:08:13And it's got to stop somewhere. We've

3:08:15got to stop giving them cart blanc to

3:08:17just do whatever they want to do. We

3:08:19have rights as citizens and you know I

3:08:23appreciate the fact what I was hearing

3:08:25earlier because it sounds like you guys

3:08:28[clears throat] live here too and you

3:08:29are you know listening to us. So I would

3:08:32just want to say thank you for that.

3:08:35>> Thank you.

3:08:38Next up I have Diane Denim.

3:08:43>> Good evening and thank you for your

3:08:45comments about the data centers. You all

3:08:47have done your research and it's much

3:08:49appreciated. I agree with everything

3:08:51that you said and it looks like tonight

3:08:53you've been given the developers

3:08:55playbook. They all say the same thing

3:08:58and just look at the videos from the

3:09:00other county's meetings and you'll see

3:09:01it's practically same thing coming out

3:09:03of everybody's mouth. Um it's all a big

3:09:07secret and the public isn't allowed to

3:09:09know about it until it's almost a done

3:09:11deal or at least that's the public's

3:09:12impression of it. So the closed loop

3:09:17systems do actually use a lot of water

3:09:20and a large amount of water is also used

3:09:22to create the electricity to run those

3:09:25systems. How will the toxic water the

3:09:28used water be disposed of and they call

3:09:31that the blowdown?

3:09:33It will contain concentrated amounts of

3:09:36biocides, anti-corrosives

3:09:39and POS. It can't just be dumped or

3:09:43added to waste water to be recycled by a

3:09:46water plant. They're not capable of

3:09:47getting all of that stuff out and making

3:09:49it safe. Will generators be used? If so,

3:09:54how many? When will they be tested and

3:09:57for how long? They sound like jet

3:09:59engines attached to the ground. People

3:10:02don't don't want to have to listen to

3:10:04that on a continuous basis.

3:10:06Hartland Park racetrack noises could be

3:10:10heard over four miles away. So, what

3:10:14noise reduction steps will be taken?

3:10:17These are just some questions for people

3:10:19to to think about. What steps are

3:10:22planned to mitigate tonal noise? That's

3:10:26also called infrasound. It's 20 hertz

3:10:29and below. It's the frequency that you

3:10:32cannot hear, but it travels through your

3:10:35body causing multiple health problems.

3:10:38As the lady uh referenced just a little

3:10:40bit ago, tonal noise can travel 10 miles

3:10:44and more and it travels through solid

3:10:46structures, buildings, fences, you know,

3:10:49solid concrete, things like that. Um,

3:10:52for any purposed data center, the

3:10:55governing body should require

3:10:57independent third-party acoustical

3:11:01engineers and industrial hygienists to

3:11:04re review the plans and oversee the

3:11:06construction to help mitigate the tonal

3:11:09noise because that really is a very

3:11:11serious health problem for people.

3:11:15So, um, MTAA says the data center will

3:11:18not pay taxes. So what are the benefits

3:11:22to the taxpayers?

3:11:23Any money the data center may give as a

3:11:26payment in lie of taxes would be greatly

3:11:29overshadowed by skyrocketing electric

3:11:32and water rates and likely health

3:11:34issues.

3:11:36Also, please do not annex any land into

3:11:40the city limits for a data center and do

3:11:43not allow city water or sewer service to

3:11:46be extended to a data center. And in

3:11:50fact, we'd like to request that you ban

3:11:53hypers scale data centers within city

3:11:56limits since they should never be

3:11:58anywhere near city and that's evidenced

3:12:01by many of the statements that I just

3:12:04gave. So, thank you very much.

3:12:06>> Thank you.

3:12:07Next up, I have Michael Bradley.

3:12:14[clears throat]

3:12:19Good evening. And these are all things

3:12:21just to think about in reviewing the

3:12:24MTAA slides provided. The first two

3:12:27planned units are a medium-siz data

3:12:30center by new Topeka planning

3:12:32guidelines. The medium is a little

3:12:35fluid.

3:12:36[clears throat] If the second two are

3:12:38added, this becomes by Topeka planning

3:12:42definition a hypers scale data center.

3:12:45Of course, at this point in time, no

3:12:47detailed specifics for this new data

3:12:50center have been provided regarding the

3:12:51amount of water it will use, where the

3:12:54water will come from, who will pay for

3:12:56the water in infrastructure update,

3:12:59exactly which power generation stations

3:13:01will provide the power for this MTAA

3:13:04data center, how many cooling towers and

3:13:06backup generators [clears throat] will

3:13:08there be? What decibel levels will be

3:13:11for both the cooling towers and the

3:13:13backup generators? the projected amount

3:13:15of wastewater and how the wastewater

3:13:18will be disposed of. In addition, Monter

3:13:22is roughly in the middle between the

3:13:24proposed 77th Street data center and the

3:13:26MTAA data center location.

3:13:29I believe CFS engineers, they're the

3:13:32ones who are going to be looking at the

3:13:34uh proposed data center, will need to

3:13:36determine the additional environmental

3:13:38uh noise, pollution, air pollution,

3:13:41wastewater, and other effects the MTAA

3:13:44data center would have on top of and in

3:13:47addition to the effects of the proposed

3:13:4977th Street data center in order to give

3:13:52consideration to both data centers.

3:13:56Also, what about [clears throat] pilot

3:13:58and aviation safety?

3:14:00Should a data center be within 5 milesi

3:14:02of Forbes airport? Should either data

3:14:05center be in the direct flight path of

3:14:07Forbes airport? The MTAA data center is

3:14:11on the airport grounds and within the

3:14:13flight path of air traffic uh pattern

3:14:16traffic at the airport.

3:14:18Uh

3:14:20uh an example would be uh south

3:14:22departure off runway 21 could easily

3:14:25cross over the location site as could a

3:14:29right base for landing on runway 3.

3:14:33There's other per permutations of that

3:14:35too. The 77th Street data center is less

3:14:39than 3 miles out and is in line for the

3:14:41flight path into runway 3.

3:14:45Although federal aviation regulations do

3:14:47not have direct restrictions for thermal

3:14:49plumes from cooling towers, the FAA does

3:14:53manage thermal plume hazards through

3:14:55advisory circulars and pilot safety

3:14:57recommendations. Let's consider both

3:15:00data centers cooling tower exhaust

3:15:02plumes and the pilot safety

3:15:04recommendations in the aeronautical

3:15:06information manual advising to avoid

3:15:09flight in the vicinity of exhaust plumes

3:15:12and which states in part that high

3:15:15temperature exhaust flumes can cause

3:15:17significant air dist disturbances such

3:15:20as turbulence and vertical shear and

3:15:23these hazards are most critical during

3:15:27lowaltitude flight, especially in and

3:15:30around approach and departure corridors

3:15:32or airport traffic areas. The exhaust

3:15:35plumes of either data center might not

3:15:38affect the larger heavier airliners and

3:15:40military aircraft and hopefully not

3:15:42including the refueling aircraft

3:15:44stationed there. However, light aircraft

3:15:47with lightwing loads like a Cessna 150

3:15:49or J3 Cub might very well be adversely

3:15:52affected. I hate to be at 600 ft

3:15:54descending in the pattern or departing

3:15:56at best rate of climb speed and have the

3:15:59MTA data center reach up with an

3:16:02invisible plume cloud on a still day and

3:16:05turn me sideways at low altitude.

3:16:07Neither the proposed 77th Street data

3:16:09center or the MTAA data center on

3:16:13airport grounds are safe or appropriate

3:16:16for air traffic operating around the

3:16:18Forbes airport. For these reasons and

3:16:20more, neither data center is in the

3:16:23public interest and are incompatible

3:16:25with the already established local

3:16:27community. Thank you.

3:16:28>> Thank you, sir.

3:16:30>> Next up, Colleen Campbell, who I believe

3:16:32is on Zoom.

3:16:39>> Hi, can you hear me?

3:16:40>> Yep, we can hear you.

3:16:42>> Great. Um, I do know that a couple other

3:16:44people tried to log in through the Zoom

3:16:46uh because of the rain and uh were

3:16:48unable to get in

3:16:51just a FYI.

3:16:54Um, tonight I would like to talk about

3:16:55the economic benefits of a data center.

3:16:58Uh, there aren't any. Uh, I printed out

3:17:00four papers for you. I sent those uh to

3:17:02you um [clears throat] in an email

3:17:04because of being on Zoom tonight. Um, I

3:17:07want you to know that I looked up

3:17:08scholarly works to find out what's

3:17:10happening financially with the data

3:17:11centers um as they come to to cities.

3:17:15Uh,

3:17:17I could find a lot of papers telling me

3:17:20that it's bad, but only um a few papers

3:17:25that would say uh that there were only

3:17:27some shortterm positive effects, but

3:17:30then they would say that there were

3:17:31long-term negative effects financially.

3:17:34Um so I think that that is a big big

3:17:38aspect. Um that yield one of the papers

3:17:42says yield spreads on utility purpose

3:17:44general obligation municipal bonds were

3:17:47wide following data center announcement

3:17:49that meant more payment for uh utilities

3:17:52by people. Um the other said data center

3:17:55construction does not lead to measurable

3:17:57increases in county level property tax

3:18:00revenue failing to meet the expectation

3:18:02that these facilities expand the local

3:18:04tax base and generate additional fiscal

3:18:07revenue.

3:18:09I also found an article um from the

3:18:13campus reflector

3:18:15um from February this year um and it

3:18:18titled Kansas homeowners now carry a

3:18:21bigger tax burden than commercial

3:18:22property owners. Um article states in

3:18:261997 residents paid about 38% of the

3:18:29property tax and commercial paid about

3:18:3152%.

3:18:33In 2024, residents paid about 57% while

3:18:37commercial paid 43%.

3:18:40Uh in this article, it says exempters do

3:18:43exemptions do not absolve properties

3:18:45from paying taxes. It just shifts it to

3:18:48the people without exemptions.

3:18:51Uh residential feels more the most

3:18:54because it does not generate any other

3:18:56income.

3:18:59So I wanted to say why that that doesn't

3:19:02work. It's because while commercial gets

3:19:05a higher rate than residential rate,

3:19:07it's um it's done the same. That means

3:19:10that all the equipment and machines

3:19:12inside like a Walmart are not calculated

3:19:15as part of the worth of the site. Only

3:19:17the land in the building itself. When

3:19:19you look at a data center, all the

3:19:21wealth that they have inside that data

3:19:23center is inside that data center. All

3:19:25those um servers etc.

3:19:28um the land and the building footprint

3:19:31uh are all that would be taxed.

3:19:34It's sure it's going to be a lot but

3:19:36it's not as much as they're trying to

3:19:37imply.

3:19:40Um

3:19:41so what I want you to look at is uh I

3:19:45plan to do a larger study over of this

3:19:47trend but I want to direct you back to

3:19:49that Walmart armon maker. You know that

3:19:51in the past 10 years it has only had an

3:19:54increase of 6.5%.

3:19:56Um in its uh increase. How about yours?

3:20:00In the past 10 years

3:20:02the only way property taxes will go up

3:20:06uh will go down for people and up for

3:20:09the the commercial is if we look at how

3:20:13property taxes are actually calculated.

3:20:16um the taxes that have been coming in

3:20:18are less and less from commercial and

3:20:19more and more from the people. And I

3:20:21think that is a bigger issue than

3:20:23whether or not a data center is going to

3:20:27make a difference or a Walmart

3:20:29distribution center or what have you

3:20:31comes in. We really need to work on the

3:20:33fact that we are paying a lot more um as

3:20:37people than the these big retailers are.

3:20:41Thank you.

3:20:42>> Thank you, Colleen.

3:20:44Next up, we have Tim Zorowski.

3:20:48Tim Zorowski.

3:20:52All right. Next up, Henry Mccclure.

3:20:56Make sure

3:21:00you pass these down.

3:21:05>> Good evening, your honor.

3:21:08So, I was at the U policy and finance

3:21:12committee meeting today and I'd like to

3:21:14thank the chairman of that committee for

3:21:16giving me an opportunity to um

3:21:20interject. We were talking about the but

3:21:23for test

3:21:25and I promised him an analysis

3:21:28of the uh

3:21:31>> Where are you going?

3:21:32>> Why are you on there?

3:21:33>> I'm just trying to do my job.

3:21:36You shouldn't let people walk around

3:21:37while you're talking.

3:21:38>> It's your time.

3:21:39>> But anyway, that's all right, Marcus. I

3:21:42was I was thinking you Hey, by the way,

3:21:44what

3:21:45>> while I'm thanking people, I want to

3:21:46thank Braxton because we've got people

3:21:49out there from EverGee fixing lights

3:21:52today. Thank you. Um, so

3:21:56the question to the committee was,

3:21:59what's a reasonable amount of return?

3:22:03So, we pay a guy. So, we a developer has

3:22:06to go in and pay a guy to give us an

3:22:09analysis and tell us what's reasonable.

3:22:12And that that's got to go away. And

3:22:14you're going to also want to get rid of

3:22:15the $25,000

3:22:18application fee because here's what's

3:22:20going to happen to you guys. It's easier

3:22:23to invest in a treasury today and not

3:22:27have to take the risk. what people what

3:22:30investors are doing today, they're

3:22:33putting five 10 million in um uh

3:22:38Chick-fil-A or Waterburger or the triple

3:22:41net leases.

3:22:43But if you can get the same return with

3:22:47a Treasury bill, why take the risk?

3:22:50Why come to Topeka and go through the

3:22:53brain damage of trying to get anything

3:22:55done in Topeka if you just can park it

3:22:58in a treasury? And I'm doing deals right

3:23:01now with estate planning where we're uh

3:23:05figuring out how to move money around

3:23:07and it doesn't it's not reinvesting

3:23:10in the community when it's easier just

3:23:13to go buy a treasury. You're getting out

3:23:15government by the government. But look

3:23:18at the return on that. So go to

3:23:23uh Jedto is giving the owner of that

3:23:28property

3:23:29and his family

3:23:32a uh what 26.5%

3:23:36return.

3:23:37So if that would be the reasonable

3:23:41amount of return for a developer, it's

3:23:44got to be reasonable. You guys are

3:23:45reasonable guys. Jetto's reasonable, the

3:23:48chamber's reasonable. Go to peak is

3:23:50reasonable. Let us have that same amount

3:23:54of reasonability.

3:23:56Let us have what you guys support.

3:24:01So, you know, it's all a crapshoot.

3:24:04Whoever puts the most money out on the

3:24:06table and rolls the right dice, that's

3:24:09what it's all about. We don't need some

3:24:11guy in Kansas City looking down the end

3:24:15of his nose at some project and you pay

3:24:18him $30,000 to say, "Well, that's

3:24:20reasonable."

3:24:22So, what I'm worried about today, I just

3:24:24spent $5,000

3:24:26on um erosion mats for 37th and gauge.

3:24:32I'm I'm worried about those all washing

3:24:34off. If the whole thing washes off u and

3:24:38I have to replace all the seating and

3:24:40everything,

3:24:43how does that ever get factored into the

3:24:44butt for test? How does it how does the

3:24:47fact that uh $2.5 million road never

3:24:50went through? And it's like my friends

3:24:52out there at Chick-fil-A and

3:24:54waterburger, you know, we're paying we

3:24:56had to go through two bankruptcies

3:25:00of the anchor department store. So the

3:25:03butt for test

3:25:06[laughter] it's it's unreasonable.

3:25:11Next up I have David Stip.

3:25:24Hello. Good evening. Um it's a breath of

3:25:27fresh air to uh hear the skepticism of

3:25:30the data centers from the governing

3:25:32body. Uh first meeting I've ever

3:25:34attended. Um you guys seem to be

3:25:36listening and I appreciate that. Um I

3:25:40also live out by Bitton. I have a Topeka

3:25:42address. Um so I understand where you're

3:25:44coming from. Um Forbes Field, yes, it's

3:25:48loud. Jet Planes, that's part of it.

3:25:50It's okay.

3:25:52uh shooting range as well. You know,

3:25:55like she said, nice days, boy, they

3:25:57really get after it. But the noise of

3:25:59the data center as we know, we all know

3:26:02all all the basic facts we know.

3:26:05But you know, Bitton, which I know

3:26:07doesn't fall under your jurisdiction,

3:26:08and thank you for the email. Um I will

3:26:10be uh aggressively talking with the

3:26:13county about Bitton. It's a great little

3:26:15town. I don't know if you all have been

3:26:16there. little bitty, but it's home to

3:26:20Burton Elementary,

3:26:22700 kids and uh employees. It's not a

3:26:26not a small school, and it's about two

3:26:30miles straight line from the proposed

3:26:33data center site.

3:26:36It's just way too close. It's way too

3:26:38close. Um and not to mention, I mean, um

3:26:42beautiful homes are being built out

3:26:44there. Uh

3:26:46countryside is beautiful. People are uh

3:26:49taking their families there, building

3:26:51new new properties. Um I talked to

3:26:53several of them the past couple days and

3:26:56you know what?

3:26:57They had no idea.

3:27:00They had no idea. They were like, "Oh,

3:27:02are you talking about the one over 75?"

3:27:05I'm like, "No, sir. No, ma'am. I'm

3:27:08talking about 77th Street." And they're

3:27:10like, "Really?" I'm like, "Yes, please

3:27:13come to this meeting tonight." And

3:27:15unfortunately, I don't think anyone did,

3:27:16but that's okay. But they know. And I

3:27:19told them, I'm like, "Hey, one day

3:27:21you're going to want to sell your

3:27:22property. What do you guys search when

3:27:25you're going to buy a property? Prime

3:27:27stats, school stats, shopping,

3:27:31maybe, uh, you know, biking, you know,

3:27:34just accessibility." But you know what

3:27:36people are going to uh search nowadays?

3:27:40proximity to a data center guaranteed.

3:27:44That's going to be on Zillow. Okay. So,

3:27:48no data centers anywhere in Shauny

3:27:51County. I know we're in the city of

3:27:53Topeka, but we can't have it. We just

3:27:56can't. And you know, it's funny. I

3:28:00played a game with AI today and I asked

3:28:03it.

3:28:05Does

3:28:07data centers cause health issues? You

3:28:09know what I said? Yes, it does.

3:28:12And you know what's fun about AI? It

3:28:14doesn't lie. Not very well. Not yet.

3:28:17And it says, and I asked, "What's a safe

3:28:20distance to be away from a data center?"

3:28:23What do you think it said?

3:28:26>> Five miles. Five miles. Okay. Now,

3:28:32here is the bombshell. How many know

3:28:35about the concept of a digital dollar?

3:28:38How many know?

3:28:41>> No. Yes.

3:28:42>> Yes.

3:28:44>> I asked AI

3:28:47is our data centers

3:28:50for the digital dollar and it said

3:28:53absolutely yes.

3:28:56That is the backbone. It said that is

3:28:58the backbone to the digital dollar. If

3:29:00you don't know what a digital dollar is,

3:29:02you need to research it because it is a

3:29:04programmable digital currency.

3:29:08that can be programmed on what you buy,

3:29:10when you buy, where you buy, and how

3:29:12much you buy. So, please educate you

3:29:15yourself on that. Data centers aren't to

3:29:17help your Amazon shopping. They're not

3:29:20to help your shopping experience or your

3:29:23cat uh videos online. It's for the

3:29:26digital dollar. Please research it.

3:29:29Thank you.

3:29:29>> Thank you, sir. Next up, I have Megan

3:29:32Ryan.

3:29:34Don't see her here. Is she online, Kim?

3:29:37Megan?

3:29:39Doesn't look like it.

3:29:42All right. Next up, Rachel Chu.

3:29:48Rachel Chu.

3:29:52Rick Tyler.

3:29:58Good evening. I'm Rick Tyler, Walkerooa,

3:30:01Kansas. about I live about uh two miles

3:30:04straight south of the proposed Compass

3:30:06data center. Um

3:30:10I spent my entire 46 year professional

3:30:13career in the electric utility industry.

3:30:15And so I'd like to talk specifically

3:30:16about the electric service for these

3:30:18data centers. Um I've talked to folks at

3:30:22EverG a number of times. I've talked to

3:30:25folks at the Southwest Power Pool. I've

3:30:27talked to uh folks uh at consulting

3:30:30firms that do work specifically in the

3:30:32electric utility industry um because

3:30:35that's the folks I know and it's they as

3:30:39you mentioned Mr. there. It's hard to

3:30:42get information from people when you

3:30:43start talking about data centers. They

3:30:45everybody gets tight lipped. They don't

3:30:47want to tell you too much. Uh they want

3:30:49to be kind, but they don't want to give

3:30:51you a whole lot of, you know,

3:30:53information that might be proprietary,

3:30:56whatever, you know, security concerns,

3:30:58those types of things. But let's talk

3:31:00about what we do now. Um two months ago,

3:31:03right here in this room, you had people

3:31:05from Compass, you had Everg talking to

3:31:07you all. What did we learn about that?

3:31:09We learned that the entire electrical

3:31:12load for Shauny County is approximately

3:31:15200 megawws.

3:31:17That's one thing we learned. We we also

3:31:19learned that the load for the Compass

3:31:22data center is going to be about 600

3:31:24megawws. What that means is three4s

3:31:28of the entire electric utility resource

3:31:31in this county is going to go to that

3:31:33one customer. one customer on six or 700

3:31:37acres down in southern Shauny County.

3:31:40You throw in let's say 150 for a new

3:31:43proposed data center uh at MTAA and

3:31:47you're up to about 80% 80% of the

3:31:50electric resource is going to one

3:31:52industry in southern Shauny County.

3:31:56Um

3:31:58to put that in perspective, the largest

3:32:00load that EverG has right now is 270

3:32:03megawws and that's the Panasonic battery

3:32:06plant over near Dodto.

3:32:09What else did we learn? We learned that

3:32:11EverG has a four tier system for

3:32:13determining who's going to get service

3:32:15for these data centers. Tier one is the

3:32:17ones that are uh already active. Maybe

3:32:20they're be in the process of being

3:32:21built, but they at least have signed

3:32:23documents under Everg's large load um

3:32:27power service tariff.

3:32:30Tier number two are companies that have

3:32:34that that are in communications with

3:32:36EverGee, but they haven't yet signed any

3:32:38documents. They haven't made any deals.

3:32:40That's where Compass is. That's where

3:32:41they were two months ago, and that's

3:32:43where they are today. Um, my guess is

3:32:46the MTAA proposed center is probably in

3:32:49tier three or four. I don't know what

3:32:51where the letter of intent uh gets them,

3:32:54but somewhere in the bottom part of that

3:32:56tier. Um, as it's already been talked

3:32:59about here today, you can't serve a load

3:33:03if you don't have the resources to serve

3:33:05it. When ever when ever serves those top

3:33:09tier data centers, they're going to be

3:33:12virtually out of capacity until they get

3:33:15some more power plants built. They

3:33:17currently have two under construction in

3:33:19southern Kansas right now. But what

3:33:22we're down to right now is if you want a

3:33:24data center, you're going to have to

3:33:26build a power plant also to serve it.

3:33:28Data center, power plant, data center,

3:33:31power plant. Then you have the I the the

3:33:34problem of getting it to the data

3:33:36centers from the power plant and that

3:33:38means transmission lines.

3:33:41There currently is a 161 KV power line

3:33:44running through very close to that

3:33:46property where Compass is 161 KV power

3:33:50line will not serve a 600 megawatt load.

3:33:54It's going to have to be a 230 or 345 KV

3:33:57line. Who's going to pay for that? And

3:34:00that'll have to be on the next uh

3:34:02installment of the electric utility uh

3:34:05thing because um I'm out of time. But

3:34:07those lines, those new lines are going

3:34:09to cost somewhere between three to $5

3:34:11million per mile. And I don't know how

3:34:15long that line is. If it's a 20 mile

3:34:17line, it might be a $und00 million power

3:34:19line.

3:34:20>> Thank you very much.

3:34:20>> And I appreciate for your your time.

3:34:23>> Jolene Greyel, I don't think I see

3:34:25Jolene here.

3:34:28Jolene.

3:34:37>> David.

3:34:38>> David. Yeah.

3:34:39>> David Banks.

3:34:50>> Good evening everybody. Like to say I

3:34:53appreciate the council for giving me the

3:34:54opportunity to come and speak. My

3:34:57situation or incident is in regards to

3:34:59the data center. So, just letting you

3:35:01guys get that heads up. My uh incident

3:35:03is in regards to a situation that

3:35:05occurred on August 24th. Um I work

3:35:08several jobs. I had uh to work at one of

3:35:11my jobs that day. I left a friend of

3:35:13mine's house and traveled down Kansas

3:35:16Avenue to stop at the gas station on

3:35:1717th in Topeka and I was wrongfully

3:35:20arrested. Now, due to this situation,

3:35:24Topeka PD has done their best to sweep

3:35:26it up under the rug, make sure it's not

3:35:28addressed. They've given me multiple

3:35:30case numbers that aren't associated with

3:35:32the actual incident. Now, what the

3:35:34incident was, someone that I formerly

3:35:36was associated with, had orchestrated

3:35:41herself and some of her co-workers to

3:35:43surround my car, commit aggravated

3:35:45assault, commit swatting, as well as

3:35:48criminal restraint. The police were

3:35:51aware of this. They still didn't care.

3:35:54They made a wrongful arrest. Took me and

3:35:56assaulted me, by the way, on that day.

3:35:59They took me down to Shaunie County

3:36:01Department of Corrections, found out

3:36:03that they did make a mistake. Then

3:36:04turned off their body cameras and begin

3:36:06to initiate and say, "Hey, we made a

3:36:08mistake. We're sorry. You don't need to

3:36:09let anyone else know." I'm here to make

3:36:12the council aware that Topeka PD needs

3:36:15to be held responsible because things

3:36:18could have gone in a completely

3:36:20different fashion. I was insulted by one

3:36:22of the arresting officers in the back of

3:36:24his cruiser in front of one of my

3:36:26parents. Now, I'm not sure who's a

3:36:28parent here. Imagine seeing one of your

3:36:30children assaulted for something they

3:36:32didn't do. It's heartbre. It's

3:36:34heart-wrenching. You don't want to see

3:36:35anything happen to like that to anyone's

3:36:37child. Now with this whole entire

3:36:41situation, I've been I feel that it's

3:36:43been almost like a second.

3:36:46Instead of having three jobs, now I have

3:36:48four because getting Topeka Police

3:36:49Department to actually prosecute these

3:36:52people, three men, one woman, hasn't

3:36:55happened. And as a matter of fact, today

3:36:57the

3:36:58detective that said he was over the

3:37:01case, another guy that told me, "I can't

3:37:03drive down Kansas Avenue or he'll arrest

3:37:04me."

3:37:06Um, he called me today, said he's not

3:37:08pressing charges against the person that

3:37:11orchestrated this situation. And the

3:37:14three individuals that did block me off

3:37:15attempt to run me over as I'm walking

3:37:17from being at a gas station. The only

3:37:20charge they're going to get is criminal

3:37:22restraint. They are not going to be

3:37:23arrested. And the funny thing is all of

3:37:26this situation was on camera from

3:37:28multiple angles

3:37:30and they promptly arrested me within 10

3:37:34minutes. I'd say it took them over 30

3:37:37days to come to after they had video. 30

3:37:40days to come to the resolution of we're

3:37:44charging these people with just criminal

3:37:45restraint. Now, I know that this you may

3:37:49feel that it may not affect the

3:37:50community, but what if it happens to

3:37:51someone else and it goes way worse? And

3:37:54I'm not I understand or I'll just say if

3:37:57I can't have equality, all I'm asking

3:37:59for is justice. If I didn't commit a

3:38:02crime, I shouldn't have been arrested.

3:38:03If these people orchestrated a crime and

3:38:05committed it against me, they should be

3:38:08held accountable. Topeka Police

3:38:10Department should not be allowed to be

3:38:11held to a lesser standard. They're paid

3:38:14to protect the public. That's not what

3:38:16they're doing.

3:38:18I thank you guys for giving me the

3:38:20chance to speak at the opportunity. I

3:38:22hope we can move forward. I appreciate

3:38:24my councilman down there and just hope

3:38:26we can move forward and find a

3:38:27resolution to this. I hopefully you guys

3:38:30don't have to hear any more about the

3:38:32data. Like I said, I'm not going to give

3:38:33you trouble about the data center, but

3:38:35as I said, thank you for your time.

3:38:37>> Thank you, sir.

3:38:39Next up, I think on Zoom, Sharon

3:38:41Gillette.

3:38:44I think I saw them on Zoom. I thought

3:38:50>> Okay, they might be together. I'm not

3:38:52sure. But so we'll jump to Amy and then

3:38:55I don't know if Sharon will also be

3:38:56there.

3:38:58So Amy Gillette,

3:39:01>> hello.

3:39:04Let's see.

3:39:09>> You are up, Amy.

3:39:11>> Okay. Can you hear me? Yep, we can hear

3:39:13you.

3:39:13>> Okay. All right. Thank you. It's just

3:39:15going to be me tonight, not my mom.

3:39:17>> Okay.

3:39:17>> Um,

3:39:19so thank you all and wow, thank you for

3:39:22making it tonight. Um, despite the

3:39:25weather and all that sort of loveliness.

3:39:27Um, I'm going to just speak briefly and

3:39:31say something a little bit different

3:39:32from what I normally say. Usually I'm

3:39:35trying to give a bunch of facts and

3:39:36statistics, but um I want to take it in

3:39:40a different direction because earlier

3:39:41this evening um instead of being there,

3:39:45I went to Johnson County to be on a

3:39:48panel uh with the Canis Gez Cane Kansas

3:39:53Interfaith Action Panel and we were

3:39:57talking about data centers and how to

3:39:59put proper guardrails on them. And um

3:40:02one of the things that the moderators

3:40:04said that I think really stuck with me

3:40:06was that in many ways this is something

3:40:09of a moral issue. And that's how they

3:40:12look at legislation is not just

3:40:16what goes in the books, but how we look

3:40:18at legislation and politics more broadly

3:40:22as the product of how we care for our

3:40:25neighbors and how we care for our

3:40:26community around us. And I feel like

3:40:30that more than anything is what has

3:40:33been meaningful to me as we've gone

3:40:35through this whole data center debate is

3:40:37that there are things that I see that

3:40:41foster community. If we're talking about

3:40:44the particular area of the MTAA side,

3:40:47you know, even something like Hartland

3:40:48Park, I'm about 2 and a half miles away.

3:40:51you know, I can hear or back when it was

3:40:55functional, I could hear the announcers.

3:40:57I could hear the cars. That's something

3:40:59that, you know, families go to, they

3:41:00remember. That's something

3:41:04that sticks with people. Whereas

3:41:08around those sites instead, and the

3:41:10sound that's going to be echoing over to

3:41:12us is going to be that of a data center.

3:41:16A lot of this gets talked about in terms

3:41:17of economic development and things like

3:41:19that, but

3:41:22when we really think about what draws

3:41:24people to a community, what makes people

3:41:26want to stay, what makes them want to

3:41:28invest their time and self and all of

3:41:30that, it's not the sort of cold

3:41:35industrial functions that clearly no one

3:41:38wants. It's um it's something deeper and

3:41:41it's something that I feel like is in

3:41:45the potential of all the people here and

3:41:48you see everyone getting up speaking

3:41:50from their different places of expertise

3:41:53and I think that's something that is

3:41:57incredibly important in all of this and

3:42:00yeah I can give you all the facts and

3:42:01studies but ultimately this is about

3:42:04what makes

3:42:06it all better for us to live together

3:42:08and um all make the world a better

3:42:12place. Thank you.

3:42:14>> Thank you, Amy.

3:42:16Next up, I have Gary Morgan.

3:42:25>> Good evening, or I should say good night

3:42:27uh mayor and commissioners. I'm Gary

3:42:29Morgan. Um, I've been in the field of

3:42:31mechanical engineering since the early

3:42:3280s with most of my career being focused

3:42:34on pressure plastic piping such as PVC,

3:42:37highdensity polyethylene, PEX, and also

3:42:40polyropylene. I too want to talk about

3:42:43data centers a little bit very quickly.

3:42:44I'm going to go off script a little bit

3:42:46to make this a lot shorter and give you

3:42:47maybe three arrows for your quiver to

3:42:49put in hopefully talk with the county

3:42:51commissioners. I want to talk first

3:42:53about closed loop systems. Second thing

3:42:56is I want to give you one particular

3:42:57point to put some guard rails in if

3:42:59we've got to write the guidelines.

3:43:02There's one thing that I've not heard

3:43:03anyone talk about and the third thing is

3:43:05the mega power consumption. First let's

3:43:07discuss discuss closed loop cooling

3:43:10water systems. Uh when Compass was here

3:43:12had their public hearing a gentleman was

3:43:14talking about they use very little water

3:43:16much like what we're hearing from MTAa.

3:43:18There's no free lunch here. U closed

3:43:21loop cooling requires I asked what what

3:43:23does it require? You're not using

3:43:25evaporative cooling. Yes. But what are

3:43:27you using, sir? Well, we're using

3:43:29refrigerant. How is the refrigerant

3:43:31compressed

3:43:33with electric motors? H. Okay. Being a

3:43:37mechanical engineer, I understand that

3:43:40there is over 90% of the power being

3:43:42supplied to these plants has to be

3:43:45dissipated in these closed loop heat

3:43:46exchangers. It means the refrigerant has

3:43:49to work that much hard. electric motors

3:43:51that and and all of this has to be uh

3:43:54drawn off. All we're doing is kicking

3:43:56the can back down the street to the

3:43:59local utility. In this case, Jeffrey's

3:44:00Energy Center pulls water out of the

3:44:02Kansas River, Burlington, uh Wolf Creek

3:44:06pulls it out of the water district down

3:44:08there. Uh what I wanted to do tonight, I

3:44:10wanted to give you some facts and

3:44:11figures on how much evaporative cooling

3:44:14goes on at these at these sites. uh the

3:44:17assumption is a a half a gigawatt or 500

3:44:19megawatt u uh u data center. This uh the

3:44:25consumption of evaporative water that's

3:44:27used uh for a coal fired plant there's

3:44:30an average of 700 to,100 gallons per

3:44:33megawatt. That means 8.4 million to 13.2

3:44:37million gallons per day for coal fired.

3:44:40Nuclear power plants consume an average

3:44:42of 500 to 800 gallons per megawatt hour.

3:44:46Again, that means for a half a gigawatt

3:44:49plant, six to 9.5 million gallons of

3:44:52water per day. There's no free lunch

3:44:53here. We're just evaporating the water

3:44:55somewhere else. But we are still to the

3:44:57gentleman talk about the heat plume.

3:45:00These are like this heat plume of a

3:45:01whole city in just a small area. There's

3:45:04no way that airport runway 31 for

3:45:07instance, as that that that heat

3:45:09dissipates off and moves to the

3:45:11northeast, it's going to be right in the

3:45:12right in line of that that runway. We

3:45:14want to point that out. Uh the second

3:45:17thing I want to talk about is some guard

3:45:18rails for these hyper data centers. Many

3:45:21mis municipalities across

3:45:24the country are including a provision

3:45:25that requires a decommissioning escrow.

3:45:29Basically, it's it's estimated it'll

3:45:31take about 1/3 one quarter to 1/3 of the

3:45:33initial cost just to decommission to

3:45:35bring that land back to its original

3:45:38value. Um I'm not going to be labor that

3:45:40one anymore. The last thing I want to

3:45:42point out is that, you know, make no uh

3:45:45mistake about it, data centers are like

3:45:46a whole city's moving next door. Um, one

3:45:50a 500 megawatt data center could power

3:45:53between 350 and 500,000 homes. It's

3:45:58incredible. The last thing I want to say

3:46:00is if you think EverG executives paying

3:46:02bonus structures not set up on

3:46:04increasing billable kilowatt hours,

3:46:06please think again. Please work with the

3:46:09county commissioners and make sure the

3:46:10proper guide rail guard rails are set up

3:46:13to prevent these this disaster from

3:46:15happening in Shauny County. Thank you.

3:46:17>> Thank you, sir.

3:46:19That's the last individual I have signed

3:46:21for public comment. I'm going to make a

3:46:23motion to extend our meeting past 10:00.

3:46:25Do I have a second?

3:46:26>> Second from the deputy mayor. All those

3:46:28in favor say I. I. All those opposed say

3:46:30no. Councilman Ortiz says no. With that,

3:46:35we will move on to announcements.

3:46:38City clerk.

3:46:43>> Okay. Daniel Twimmllo,

3:46:48>> not on my list.

3:46:51I do want to state because I am the one

3:46:54who did the Kora. Um, and I did go ahead

3:46:57and forward that and there's probably

3:46:58others, but I did forward that letter of

3:47:01intent to you all for you, um, to see

3:47:03along with the other information

3:47:05requested. Um and one thing that you

3:47:07will note is that um on September 15th

3:47:11um it was stated that the developer was

3:47:14here in Topeka and went to um tour the

3:47:17location and then also met with um

3:47:20county officials or whomever from the

3:47:23county that day. That was also stated um

3:47:26last night at the county planning

3:47:27commission that those conversations with

3:47:29the county um from the MTAA site had

3:47:32occurred. So um there is discussion um

3:47:36just not here and everywhere else. Um

3:47:40and I really did find and I want to

3:47:42thank Mr. Seeden. He was very responsive

3:47:45to the request and very quick on it.

3:47:48Didn't charge me. Um and I appreciate

3:47:51all of that. Um, it did make me dive a

3:47:54little bit deeper and um to really

3:47:57thinking about how, and I know Mayor

3:47:59Duncan has brought this up many times,

3:48:01that we are not the only taxing entity,

3:48:03um, and really paying more attention um,

3:48:06to what that means. And so, the MTAA,

3:48:09for people who don't know, more broadly,

3:48:12um, they are an independent um, public

3:48:14authority. They have a governance board.

3:48:16They have their own operating budget.

3:48:18They tax part of our mill levy or our

3:48:21mills. They get 2.176

3:48:24mills um which is about 5.28 million for

3:48:27this current budget. Um and I say that

3:48:29because it's really important that they

3:48:31hold budget hearings um they hold public

3:48:34meetings that we need to pay attention

3:48:35to. For instance, um a $4.9 million GO

3:48:40bond that was taken out earlier this

3:48:42year. um unlimited ad valorum taxes as

3:48:46that leverage to do upgrades um and to

3:48:50you know to Billard and to Forbes and

3:48:53those areas. And you know, part of that

3:48:56is the information that we received,

3:48:59which the the minutes are not very

3:49:01thorough, but you know, some of the the

3:49:03powerpoints that were retrieved talks

3:49:06about the upgrades and and the money

3:49:08that is needed for those things and

3:49:09about how this is going to prepare for

3:49:12further um development and even using

3:49:15terms like more data inensive

3:49:18development that may occur in the

3:49:20future. So these thought processes have

3:49:22been there for a while, right? And what

3:49:24that possibility um may be. Later talks

3:49:27about how China is um you know ahead of

3:49:31things in in rare earth mineral mining

3:49:34and magnets and whatnot and then

3:49:36proposes um how they have been in

3:49:39discussions with a group of venture

3:49:41capitalists interested in creating a

3:49:43district with rare earth extraction and

3:49:46magnet production um motor and drone

3:49:49manufacturing. And by the way, that all

3:49:51requires a lot more intensive

3:49:54discussions um than than maybe the

3:49:57public has been paying attention to. So

3:49:59I am encouraging people um to look

3:50:01further into um the operations of that.

3:50:04They also applied for a federal

3:50:06opportunity zone um to then allow for

3:50:09federal taxes to be given to people who

3:50:12are developing in that area. We had

3:50:14several districts within the city that

3:50:16were significantly higher poverty rates

3:50:18and I hope we had people that were

3:50:20advocating at the state and then

3:50:22therefore the federal level to create

3:50:24those federal opportunity zones as the

3:50:26MTAA has been able to do um had the

3:50:30resources for. So, one thing I will say

3:50:33if um you know we are spending our taxes

3:50:36towards MTAA and are you know looking at

3:50:40these initiatives um and if you really

3:50:42want to know how the people feel we

3:50:44could definitely add the ballot

3:50:46initiative of whether we want our city

3:50:49resources to be utilized to hypers scale

3:50:52data centers um such as water and other

3:50:55services that could be put to a ballot.

3:50:57Thank you.

3:50:58>> Thank you. All right, we'll now move on

3:51:00to announcements. City clerk

3:51:07>> for the October 20th agenda. We have

3:51:10three um

3:51:13sorry, let me get the right agenda. We

3:51:15have one proclamation for world polio

3:51:17day. We have one presentation for the

3:51:19city of Topeka financial update. Um

3:51:22action items include four items related

3:51:24to project view re um reinvestment

3:51:27housing incentive district. The first

3:51:28one's an ordinance um for to correct a

3:51:32legal description. The second one's an

3:51:33amendment to the real estate purchase

3:51:34agreement. Third is development

3:51:36agreement amendment. The second is a

3:51:38personal guarantee of David Flareity for

3:51:40the project. And then the last item is

3:51:42discussion with possible action of

3:51:44future sales tax initiatives and city

3:51:46auditors.

3:51:48>> All right, city manager.

3:51:50>> Thank you, mayor. Uh just want to make

3:51:52an announcement to the public that as we

3:51:53are uh working through some of the uh

3:51:56main issues this evening um to please

3:51:59contact uh our call center 24 hours a

3:52:02day um to um to submit service requests.

3:52:06The number is 785368 311.

3:52:09Thanks.

3:52:13>> Council member Ortiz.

3:52:16real quick. As promised, I brought some

3:52:19smoke alarm

3:52:21um applications. Take what you want,

3:52:25but please take some and hand them out.

3:52:27Thank you, Mr. Mayor.

3:52:29>> Council member Banks.

3:52:31>> Nothing tonight, Mayor. Thank you,

3:52:33>> Council Member Kell.

3:52:35>> Um just wanted to mention uh this last

3:52:39mentioned about a crosswalk at 37th

3:52:41Engage that was put in about 3 4 months

3:52:43ago. That was something when they closed

3:52:45off the west side of Gage uh north of

3:52:4837th. Uh I pushed forward and uh the uh

3:52:52street department put that in pretty

3:52:53quickly. So there is a crosswalk there

3:52:56to use. Um I would like to see us come

3:52:59up with something either off indust

3:53:01industry standards or governmental

3:53:03standards on what a data center a hypers

3:53:06scale data center is. So, we're making

3:53:09sure we're staying, you know, we know

3:53:11we're all kind of on the same page

3:53:13because that they're based off of server

3:53:16count, floor space, power capacity,

3:53:18power usage, architecture. So, I'd like

3:53:22something that we know that we're

3:53:23sitting in within these bubbles for

3:53:26different styles of data center. So we

3:53:27know we're protecting ourselves in those

3:53:30uh aspects because if it uses just under

3:53:33this amount it may not be considered

3:53:34hypers scale and then we're we're not

3:53:37protecting oursel against that. So um I

3:53:40want to make sure we're we're looking at

3:53:41those and making sure we're

3:53:45keeping the moratorum in place as best

3:53:48we can uh for right now. Thank you.

3:53:51>> Council member Miller.

3:53:53>> Oh, thank you, Mayor. Let's move on.

3:53:55>> Council member Bradberry. Nothing

3:53:57tonight.

3:53:57>> Council member McGee.

3:53:59>> I have nothing to add. Thank you.

3:54:00>> Deputy Mayor Hoer.

3:54:01>> Nothing tonight.

3:54:03>> Council member Hiller.

3:54:07>> Council member Vald Divia Alkala.

3:54:09>> Nothing, Mayor. Thank you.

3:54:10>> Thank you. Same here. I believe [snorts]

3:54:12we still have need for executive

3:54:14sessions. Is that correct? Two. That one

3:54:17has to be tonight. 45minute one.

3:54:22>> Okay. All right. Well, then there's a

3:54:23need for two executive sessions. if the

3:54:25city attorney would state the motion for

3:54:26the first session.

3:54:28>> Thank you. M Mr. Mayor, the motion would

3:54:30be to recess into executive session not

3:54:33to exceed 45 minutes, although I would

3:54:36amend that to 15. uh to discuss

3:54:39sensitive data regarding the city's

3:54:41cyber security and other matters

3:54:43relating to security measures of the

3:54:45city's information technology systems as

3:54:47allowed under KSA 75-4319

3:54:53subsection B12. The open meeting will

3:54:56resume uh in this room the city council

3:54:59chambers. The following staff will be

3:55:00necessary to assist the governing body

3:55:02in its deliberations. the chief's the

3:55:05city's chief information officer and

3:55:07other staff members as needed.

3:55:10>> All right, I will move to approve. Do I

3:55:11have a second?

3:55:12>> Second from council member Kell. All

3:55:14those in favor say I. I. All those

3:55:16opposed say no.

3:55:17>> Council member Ortiz and Miller. No.

3:55:19Might have been another one. All right.

3:55:21With that, we're going to move

3:55:22immediately into executive session.

3:55:31All right. We have come out of executive

3:55:32session. No action has been taken.

3:55:34However, we have the need for a second

3:55:36executive session. City attorney.

3:55:39>> Thank you, Mr. Mayor. The motion would

3:55:41be to recess into executive session for

3:55:43a time not to exceed 15 minutes to

3:55:46discuss potential litigation as well as

3:55:48other matters deemed privileged under

3:55:50the attorney client privilege pursuant

3:55:52to KSA75-4319

3:55:55subsection B subsection 2. The open

3:55:58meeting will resume in this room in the

3:56:00governing body's chambers. The following

3:56:01staff will be necessary to assist the

3:56:03governing body in its deliberations. The

3:56:05city attorney, city manager, and other

3:56:08staff members as needed.

3:56:09>> All right. I move to go into executive

3:56:11session. Do I have a second?

3:56:12>> Second.

3:56:13>> Second from the deputy mayor. All those

3:56:14in favor say I.

3:56:16>> I. All those opposed say no.

3:56:19>> Council members Miller and Ortiz are no.

3:56:21We will move immediately into executive

3:56:22session.

3:56:31We have come out of executive session.

3:56:33There is no action to be taken by this

3:56:34governing body. This meeting is

3:56:36adjourned at 10:33 p.m.