2026-09-14 - Inland Wetlands and Watercourses Agency

00:00Call to order this

00:03meeting of the Illinois Wetlands and

00:05Water Courses Agency for the Town of

00:07Woodstock, Connecticut. Today is

00:09September 14th, 2026 and the time is

00:137:04 p.m.

00:16Uh, we'll have a roll call.

00:20>> Mara Buts,

00:22>> Steuart Paisley,

00:25>> and Bill Rowinsky.

00:28And we don't have any presently anybody

00:31else with us and our alternate is not on

00:35the zooms and I'm not sure that he will

00:38be coming so we will not appoint an

00:40alternate at this point. Moving on to

00:43action on the minutes of previous

00:45meeting August 3rd 2026.

00:49This is our regular meeting. Does

00:51anybody have any corrections or

00:53additions or changes?

00:55>> I do. Bill Marlabette speaking.

00:57>> Yeah.

00:58>> So, um the reference at the top of the

01:02page

01:04um and via Zoom passcode key and then

01:07the link um this section should be

01:10deleted because it does not exist when

01:13you use that link. It's my understanding

01:15that uh

01:18when um Crystal downloads the Zoom

01:22recording and then posts it on YouTube,

01:26she takes it off of the Zoom

01:30um she deletes the Zoom recording

01:33because she saves it locally. So, um and

01:36since it's on YouTube, it can be looked

01:39at there. So those lines should be

01:42deleted starting with the word and via

01:44zoom and ending with the length.

01:48And then second

01:50um regarding the motion on pending

01:53applications a that's application

01:5706-26-01

02:00that was the Palmer Arboretum Committee.

02:04If you go down to see motion to approve

02:07given in light of the existing site, add

02:10um replace the word site with unstable

02:15conditions.

02:18And down in the last line that starts

02:21with IWWA to stabilize the channel, I

02:26think the words added and contributing

02:28slopes.

02:30So it would be and contributing slopes.

02:33[snorts]

02:34I didn't find any other um modifications

02:37or edits.

02:42>> I I was I did not look at it word for

02:45word like that, but I did not see

02:47anything.

02:48Yeah. I went back and listened to the

02:50recording and

02:53while this isn't the exact wording, it

02:55was this is the intent of that wording

02:58except for those changes. um regarding

03:00the contributing slopes and the un un um

03:03the unstable conditions.

03:08Okay, Bill Rwinsky. Yeah, I only have

03:10one change or addition on number seven

03:14new applications

03:16on a it should be nine Basset Hill Road.

03:23>> Where are you, Bill? Again,

03:25>> number seven.

03:26>> Seven. Okay, hold on. that Basset Hill

03:29Road.

03:30>> Okay.

03:34>> Other than that, I didn't see any other

03:38issues.

03:45>> I didn't have anything. As I said,

03:50>> do you need a motion on this bill?

03:52>> Yes, we do.

03:53>> Okay. Okay. So then I I I move to accept

03:57the minutes the Inland Wetlands and

03:59Water Courses Agency meeting minutes of

04:01Monday, August 3rd, 2026 held by Zoom

04:05with the following modifications.

04:09Delete the lines starting with and via

04:12zoom passcode K4

04:15Y A number sign Y VS

04:19including the link and then down under

04:24item 6A in the motion. The motion should

04:27read, "Motion to approve given in light

04:31of existing

04:33unstable crossout site conditions."

04:38And then in the last line of that same

04:40motion,

04:42add the words and contributing slopes

04:46to after the words stabilize the channel

04:51and to add

04:54the word hill on item 7A

04:59for nine. So it reads nine Basset Hill

05:03Road.

05:11That's four edits.

05:13>> Yep.

05:16>> I I have a a really small thing here

05:20on uh

05:266A. At the end of the paragraph,

05:30S. Peasley noted that a decision made

05:32for expediency.

05:34>> Is expediency a proper word?

05:38I don't know.

05:42>> I think it's become common enough in

05:44parliament that it doesn't matter. I

05:46suppose it Yeah,

05:48>> I didn't know if it was discouraging in

05:50any way.

05:52>> Well, urgency might work too. Yeah,

05:55let's let's use urgency.

05:57>> Then I have to amend the motion to have

05:58a fifth.

06:00So I will amend the motion to have a

06:02fifth edit

06:05under items 6A

06:11with the line that starts with near the

06:14end of the paragraph. Conditional

06:16approval was considered as Pasley noted

06:18that a decision made for replace the

06:22word expediency with urgency.

06:27And I don't have a second on the

06:30original motion either. So

06:32>> I'll second the motion.

06:34>> Will you also second the amendment?

06:36>> Yes.

06:39>> Okay. We have a motion by Mila Buts,

06:41seconded by Stuart Peasley to approve

06:45the mot the minutes of August 3rd, 2026

06:49as amended in five different areas. Is

06:53there any further discussion?

06:56All those in favor signify by saying I.

06:59>> I.

07:01>> I. And there's anybody opposed. We

07:05should not have any other members or

07:07abstain. So the motion passes.

07:11Moving on to special meeting minutes

07:14from the special meeting from Wednesday,

07:16October 26th at 6 PM.

07:23>> We do have some comments on this bill. I

07:26think

07:26>> it says they are draft minutes,

07:30so they're not final. And I don't know

07:32if John if you meant to have this

07:35reviewed and then finalized at this

07:38meeting or at the next meeting.

07:40>> Isn't this what we're doing right now?

07:42>> Yeah, but then they're not draft. You've

07:44issued them, so they're not draft.

07:48>> Okay. This is how I have written every

07:50set of minutes I have for about the last

07:5122 years, but I'm happy to change it.

07:53>> Okay. Okay. So, um here are my suggested

07:56changes. Um, at the very beginning above

08:00the words draft minutes, I think that

08:03should state a video recording of this

08:05meeting can be viewed at and give the

08:08URL for the YouTube recording where it

08:11is been posted online.

08:15Crystal has posted that.

08:18That's the first one. And then second

08:21one is under

08:24roll call number item two at the very

08:27end I recommend that you add after

08:31John's name via Zoom period cuz John was

08:36the only one who was in a Zoomed

08:38condition and we were all in person

08:42>> and the significance of that is

08:44>> that you weren't there in person. you

08:46were there. Everybody else was there in

08:48person.

08:51That's all it just it says that you you

08:53were there outside of the building. You

08:55weren't looking at the exact same papers

08:57we were other than you were external to

08:59it and you had provided us with the

09:01papers.

09:02>> Well, then shouldn't shouldn't Sorry,

09:04Steuart Peasel here. Shouldn't we call

09:05it a special hybrid meeting?

09:08>> No, it wasn't listed as hybrid. It was

09:09an in-person meeting. Oh,

09:12>> but John joined us via Zoom and I don't

09:14have any problem with that. I just think

09:16the minutes should reflect that.

09:21Then, um, on item number three,

09:26second line down,

09:29application forms were presented.

09:32And I think I would like to have the

09:36words revised draft because we're

09:38working all off of drafts. We're not

09:41working off of final forms. Um, and then

09:44change the word permit form to

09:46application form

09:50because these are applications. They're

09:52not and they included more than just

09:55permits. They included wetlands agent

09:57approvals and jurisdictional rulings.

09:58And

10:00>> so I'm sorry, where you on the second

10:01line here where I'm wonder if you can

10:02see the screen where it says combined

10:04permit form. You mean a combined

10:05application form?

10:07>> Yes. So that line would read application

10:11forms and presented a revised draft

10:15combined application form.

10:22And then

10:25then in the next paragraph down

10:281 2 3 4 fifth line down.

10:35And I think it's clear if we say

10:38suggested that these were add the word

10:41requests

10:42different and then add the word from

10:45application requests

10:50or knock out request and because we had

10:53a discussion about what constitutes a

10:55request versus what constitutes an

10:57application and I just want to make sure

10:59there's no confusion as to when we're

11:03looking at requests versus applications

11:08because as we go down the road that

11:10there there will be a difference between

11:12how an application is processed and a

11:14request is processed. They're different

11:15type of form.

11:19>> What can you just clarify then the

11:22difference?

11:24>> So um the application forms involve a

11:29form a fee and a drawing. Basically,

11:34that's what the form requires. The

11:36application forms, the requests are for

11:39extensions of permits. That doesn't

11:41require a drawing. It may require a fee.

11:45It does require a form, a request form.

11:48And then there's extensions of permits.

11:51Um, I can't recall if those require a

11:53fee, but they don't require a um a

11:56drawing. And then there's modifications

11:58of permits and those typically do

12:01require all three a form and I believe a

12:06a fee and then a a drawing for whatever

12:09the changes are supposed to be.

12:12So um they're handled a little

12:15differently. They're they're

12:18my recollection is is that they don't

12:20require to have legal notices for

12:22requests, but they do for applications.

12:25anything that was an application. So,

12:28request for a um Well, I take that back

12:31because uses permitted as of right don't

12:32need a legal notice, I don't believe.

12:35What do you think, John? Do uses

12:37permitted as of right require a legal

12:38notice?

12:40>> Uh as of right, if if it's a finding, if

12:43it's a vote of the commission,

12:45>> yeah,

12:45>> to make a finding, I think it does.

12:48>> It needs a legal notice

12:49>> because that's because the commission

12:51has made a decision that is in theory

12:53appealable. So, so Stu Stuart, that's

12:57how the difference is when you're doing

12:59an application, you're you're publishing

13:01a legal notice on your decision on

13:03requests for extension, modification,

13:08and um transfer of a permit for to a new

13:12property owner. Cuz in the wetlands,

13:14permits don't run with the land. They

13:16run with the person who applied for it.

13:19So when somebody new buys the property,

13:21if they want to have that coverage

13:24authorization, that permit covering

13:26them, they have to get it transferred to

13:28their name. Otherwise, it stays under

13:30the the old permit or applicant's name.

13:36So, and those don't require legal

13:37notices to be for us to be issuing them.

13:41That's the difference between an

13:43application and a request.

13:46>> Okay. Thank you. That's interesting.

13:49Hi Marlin. Um could you uh do you recall

13:54the the different uh what you wanted to

13:57strike and replace?

13:59>> Yes. So on we're talking about the

14:02second paragraph in item three

14:06and it is line one 2 3 four five. The

14:10fifth line,

14:11>> okay,

14:12>> would read suggests that these were

14:17requests

14:18different from applications

14:21and delete the word requests

14:25after applications.

14:27>> Okay, thank you.

14:29And then on the item four on the next

14:33page,

14:36um

14:38I would replace suggest replacing the

14:40word. It says Marla Butts discuss the

14:43difference between water bodies and

14:45water courses.

14:47And I think the discussion actually

14:49includes the difference between wetlands

14:51and water courses.

14:53Um it wasn't just water bodies because

14:56water bodies are water courses. is there

14:58are other types of water courses other

15:00than water water bodies, but I think we

15:02had a discussion about wetlands and

15:03water courses. Um I I don't know what

15:07other people's recollection is of that.

15:11>> I I don't I don't remember that

15:13specifically, but I think it's a valid

15:15point that you're raising

15:17>> to replace the the word water bodies

15:20with wetlands.

15:21>> Correct.

15:22>> Yeah. And then uh the one two three

15:24third line down

15:28Um

15:30the word after the word which

15:33could include

15:35I would replace the word could include

15:39with the words by definition includes

16:02And I don't know whether or not the line

16:03above that where it said she suggested

16:05that 125 ft upland review area

16:10may be for water bodies

16:13um not water courses. might want to read

16:16the 125 ft upland review area has been

16:20applied

16:21for water bodies, not water courses as a

16:25whole.

16:28Cuz you remember we had a discussion

16:30about swamps, marshes, and bogs.

16:32Typically, they are technically they are

16:34water courses, but we have not been

16:36applying the 125 ft rule for swamps,

16:40marshes, and bogs. We've been using the

16:43100 ft for wetlands.

16:46[snorts] So that would read I'll I'll

16:50start from the very beginning of that

16:51paragraph. Mara Butts discuss the

16:53differences between replace water bodies

16:56with wetlands and water courses from a

16:59statutory regulatory

17:03definitional standpoint. She suggested

17:06that the 125- f foot upland review area

17:10has been applied to water potties, not

17:13water courses as a whole,

17:17which by definition

17:20includes delete could include marshes

17:24and swamps.

17:31That's it.

17:33Those are my suggested changes.

17:38>> I have one question,

17:39>> Billky. I don't Go ahead,

17:41>> Steuart.

17:42My question was simply I I thought we

17:45were headed in the direction of

17:49um revising that

17:53to eliminate the 125 and be 100 ft for

17:57both. Was I wrong? Go ahead.

17:58>> No, you're you're correct that that has

18:00to be done by regulation and that has to

18:02go to a public hearing and legal notices

18:04and that's and at that meeting I also

18:07committed to trying to get revisions to

18:09the regulations done within the next six

18:11months.

18:11>> Okay.

18:12>> Get a draft to the agency.

18:19>> Yeah, Bill Rowinsky, I didn't have any

18:21other edits. Um I was thinking that we

18:25were deciding on 125 to be the uh

18:29>> Yes.

18:29>> just for clarity for for both.

18:32>> Yes, that was correct.

18:34>> Okay.

18:36Are there any other changes or

18:38additions?

18:43So we'll entertain a motion to approve

18:47these minutes.

18:49>> Maraud speaking. I move to approve the

18:51minutes of the inland wetlands and water

18:53courses agency special meeting held on

18:56August 26th 206

19:00with the 10 suggest 10 edits identified

19:05during the discussion.

19:07>> I'll second that.

19:10>> Okay. Mara Buts. A motion by Mila Buts

19:13to approve with 10 uh corrections or

19:16additions uh the minutes of the special

19:19meeting of Wednesday, October 26th, the

19:22special meeting and uh seconded by

19:25Stuart Peasley. Any further discussion?

19:29All those in favor signify by saying I.

19:31>> I.

19:32>> I.

19:33>> I. Any opposed? Any abstain? The motion

19:36passes. Bill, just as a point of order

19:40on the agenda, item four only only

19:44references the previous minutes of

19:46August 26. It does not reference the

19:48minutes of

19:50August 3rd.

19:56Oh, I'm looking at the one that was

19:59posted. Not this one, but the one that

20:02was sent. Hold on.

20:06When you look at the agenda

20:08that was posted,

20:11not this one, but the one that's under

20:13agendas

20:15that that the town clerk got.

20:18Can you call that up? It would be under

20:21Inland Wetlands and Water Courses Agency

20:23agendas.

20:31No, no, no, no. You've gone to the wrong

20:33place.

20:34Um here,

20:42see it doesn't have the uh

20:46and that's the one that was posted on

20:48the uh with the town clerk

20:52or it should have been the one that was

20:53posted with the town clerk. So, it's

20:54just missing the um

21:03I only just noticed that, by the way,

21:06cuz I'm working off of that the gender

21:08you have on the screen right now. I'm

21:10not working off the one that was that

21:12has all the links to the documents.

21:15So, um

21:18we could amend the agenda to include

21:20that. I don't know if that I don't know

21:23Robert's rules well enough to know if

21:24that's required.

21:30>> I I think your I think your uh risk of

21:33litigation over this matter is

21:35exceptionally small, but you could uh

21:37you know certainly modify the agenda to

21:39to uh include to reflect the fact that

21:42you're covering two sets of minutes

21:43instead of just one.

21:48>> Somebody would like to move that. Um, it

21:51is on the links of for the wetlands

21:54page. So,

21:55>> but that's not what's posted in the town

21:56clerk's office.

21:58>> Yeah.

21:58>> The other one is the one that's posted

21:59in the town's clerk's office. So, I

22:02would move um to amend the agenda that

22:06would have been posted at the town's

22:08clerk's office to include um

22:14action on minutes of the August 3rd,

22:162026 meeting.

22:21>> Second.

22:24>> A motion by Mila Buts, second by Stuart

22:26Peasley. All those in favor signify by

22:29saying I. I.

22:32I any opposed? Any abstain? Uh the

22:35motion carries.

22:39Okay. Moving on to number five, citizens

22:41comments. This is a time in our meeting

22:44where anybody can comment on anything

22:47relevant to our meeting, but typically

22:50not something that's already on the

22:52agenda. So, if there's some member of

22:54the public who would like to comment

22:56specifically on something, now is your

22:58time.

23:10All right, we'll move on to pending

23:12applications. Application

23:160520-10EX

23:209 Basset Hill Road, map 5781, block 50,

23:25lot 21B, Josh Pratt, extension of

23:28wetlands permit, cleanout of pond.

23:41Good evening, guys.

23:43Hello.

23:48So these are the requested pictures that

23:50uh for the updates the changes that I

23:53had spoken about in the last meeting.

23:56Um

23:59not sure what you have any questions as

24:02far as what's uh what's happening.

24:05>> I did.

24:06>> Can you basically

24:08>> I'm sorry. What was that?

24:11Is that John? going to be talking.

24:12>> I I was just going to jump in and say I

24:14think I I think just procedurally my

24:16sense was the com the agency was

24:19generally in favor of the changes that

24:20you had discussed at last month's

24:23meeting but just procedurally needed you

24:25to file a modification application.

24:27>> Correct.

24:28>> Um I don't know that any additional

24:30information was pending but uh you know

24:32you're certainly welcome to share

24:33anything

24:34>> anyone's willing

24:37open book if anyone wants to know

24:38anything. I did submit those couple

24:40pictures as far as uh stabilizing the

24:42rear causeway with uh some very large

24:45and uh plentiful boulders. So, that's

24:48all set. Um and I think you can probably

24:51see the the process of the stone stack

24:54stone wall in the front. And I did beef

24:57out the uh the bottom of the middle

25:01causeway. Uh I extended another like six

25:03feet out right underneath the wall. So

25:05you can you can walk right through that

25:07to prevent any sort of hill slide or

25:09anything like that that may happen as

25:11the water rises.

25:13Um once the water is up, I'm my concern

25:17isn't that it would it would go. It's

25:19just the rate at which the water rises

25:22due to the springs, it could slowly pull

25:24out. So that's why I added all that

25:26material in the middle.

25:30>> So Josh,

25:30>> that would have been my only comment.

25:32Marla but speaking Josh you made some

25:34differences from the original permit to

25:36this one. So for example in the original

25:39permit you had a particular depth of the

25:41pond. You've got some places now where

25:43it's a lot deeper than what it was in

25:45the original drawings that were

25:46submitted. I think um

25:50I think they were posted the original

25:52drawings were posted and you had

25:54identified the depths um that were

25:57slightly less. Um,

25:59>> I can't quite remember on I'm going to

26:01be honest with the uh the original

26:03depths on that that first part.

26:07>> Okay. So, what you had here in your

26:10original proposal um would take the

26:12entire pond to its original depth and

26:14remove material and the max depth was 10

26:17ft.

26:18Um, and John, this still got posted with

26:22multiple copies of the the application

26:26description and drawings.

26:29So, it got a little complicated to look

26:30at. I wasn't sure. I'm

26:32>> If there's Yeah, if there's something

26:34you want me to bring up on the screen,

26:35I'm happy.

26:35>> Yeah. Look at page 14 of that uh the old

26:39document.

26:43Okay. Got to turn that though. Okay.

26:46See, that was the original exhibit D.

26:49Dig the entire pond to 8 to 10 ft. So,

26:52you've really changed what the bottom is

26:54going to be. So, you really want to go

26:55with what you've got now, what you

26:57presented in your drawing. Correct.

26:59>> Correct. Yeah. I I just did multiple

27:01layers again like we talked about in the

27:02beginning to create different

27:03thermodynamics. I figured

27:06>> I would I'm better off because I want to

27:07stock this when I'm done uh with a

27:10button ball hatchery.

27:11>> I was going to come and stock with

27:13trout. Um,

27:15>> and so I'd like to have some varying

27:17depths to uh really expose that that

27:19colder layer.

27:21>> So now you've got your max depth at 15

27:23ft in in the in two of the ponds. So um,

27:27do are you going to have enough land to

27:30be able to have a depth that deep with a

27:333:1 slope or a slope that'll remain

27:35stable?

27:37>> I don't know if it'll be 3 to one, but

27:38yes, it remains stable. It will. on the

27:41outside. I'm definitely doing that that

27:43pitch. As if you look now on the large

27:46area, you'll notice right at the edge

27:49around the back and the uh the south

27:53side,

27:54>> there's there's quite a drop. But what

27:56I'm doing is a lot of the gravel that we

27:58pulled out, I'm replacing that with clay

28:01because if you look on the like the

28:03south end of the pond and the the east

28:06side,

28:07>> it's it's all clay laden. Um, so I have

28:10that dug and we're going to take the

28:12good gravel and repack the edges so it

28:15has a nice slope down.

28:17>> Okay.

28:18>> So when I I drove down Route 171 and I

28:22took a look at the cross culvert under

28:24the road and it looks like it's a I'm

28:28not sure whether it's a 36 or a 42 in

28:32pipe. It's a pretty sizable pipe that

28:35carries the water from your property

28:37across the road um to that's not grally

28:42brook. It's um

28:46>> yeah, there's a good size brook there

28:48that runs

28:50>> correct.

28:50>> So um then I said okay well with a with

28:54dot putting a pipe that size and and

28:56your pipes are much much smaller. So I

28:58said okay what do we got for

29:00contributing drainage areas? So, I

29:02looked at USGS stream stats and it

29:05calculated what the wershed was and it's

29:08just just a little over 25 acres, which

29:12is not a huge watershed. So, your your

29:14pipes probably are going to be okay.

29:16It's not going to cause a problem, but I

29:19didn't understand how your p pond drains

29:22to that crossover because there's a lot

29:25of vegetation there right now and you

29:26got piles of dirt everywhere, so it's

29:28kind of hard to see. So the um at the

29:31very end the south side of the we're

29:33looking at the upper image says pond

29:35skimmer. So under normal conditions I

29:37have a vertical skim pipe and it runs

29:39underneath it's probably down six feet

29:42maybe five to six feet. It runs under

29:44the ground at just a slight pitch. Um

29:47and it opens up right before the the 26

29:50ft cut off you know between the this

29:52where the state uh owns the property.

29:54>> Okay.

29:55>> That that drains out right underneath.

29:57So that pipe hasn't been obscured. And

29:59then I have the little overflow

30:02>> um

30:04>> where it's well not right now because

30:06all the all the stuff

30:08>> you got a lot of fill there right now.

30:10>> But uh it was probably before I would

30:12say about 5t wide and had a pitch down

30:15of 4 in and it just acted as an

30:17overflow. So if the normal under normal

30:20conditions that 8 in pipe takes

30:22everything

30:23>> under extreme conditions like we had

30:25some of these really bad raintorms. Mhm.

30:27>> It will run through there like a a

30:29self-guided stream and it goes right to

30:32where that that culvert pipe is.

30:34>> So basically the way you show the

30:37overflow spillway looks like it's not

30:40heading towards that culvert. It's looks

30:42like it's heading to the west of that

30:44culvert. Are you going to have like a

30:45grass line swale

30:48between that that'll carry that overflow

30:53>> the uh the over? Yes. So to your point,

30:56the overflow is guided almost

30:59directionally towards it. It's it's not

31:01100% accurate on the on the drawing. I

31:04apologize. I should have uh I should

31:05have written that in. But once it ends,

31:09it is guided towards that because the

31:11whole side of 171 acts as like a like a

31:15drainage swale that ends there.

31:17>> Yep. Um,

31:19>> so that means when you finish taking out

31:21your fill, you're going to reestablish a

31:24swale

31:25>> and that, okay, the wider you make that

31:28swale and the longer that you can make

31:30it, the less potential for erosion that

31:33you'll have if you get a massive storm.

31:35So that's why I thought that's why you

31:37put it on that side because you wanted

31:39it to wrap around and

31:41>> it kind of wraps a little. It goes

31:43straight towards it and like you said it

31:45does end towards the west of it like you

31:46pointed out and at the very end it kind

31:48of tails around. So it it kind of hits

31:50that cover and then flows with the rest

31:52of the uh the road runoff.

31:54>> So how long do you figure you're going

31:56to have the land disturbed? Cuz right

31:58now it's not really causing a problem to

32:01that water course that drains under the

32:03road.

32:04>> Yes. But once you go and stabilize

32:06everything, uh, once you take all the

32:09excess fill out, how do you plan to

32:11stabilize the disturbed ground? Have you

32:13made any plans for that?

32:15>> I'm hoping to seed it as soon as

32:17possible if I can get the people that

32:19say they want to take stuff to actually

32:22move. Um, unfortunately we had one guy

32:25that he bought a brand new triacle and

32:28he rolled his triacle last weekend, not

32:30on our property, but in his personal

32:32property. Um, so now he's in the process

32:35of getting two more. Uh, Provos has been

32:38through. Um, but yeah, my my goal is

32:43ASAP because I want my lawn back and I

32:46want I want grass. I'm hoping I can do

32:48some nice fescue grass, but worst case

32:51scenario, I'm gonna have to do some uh

32:52annual rye

32:53>> so it binds because I can't have to your

32:56point just bare soil. That would be

32:59awful.

33:00>> Yeah. And and you've got until I

33:03believe, you know, anywhere between

33:05October 1st to October 15th to get your

33:07seeding done because those are the last

33:09seating dates in this area depending on

33:11the weather. you know, that's typically

33:14>> I've been pushing them every day and

33:17week. Um, I'm sure you guys know how

33:20contractors work sometimes.

33:22>> Uh, luckily I've been able to be in

33:24control of doing the

33:26>> the landscaping part in the pond and all

33:28that. Um, as opposed to last time, but

33:32>> moving the big heavy machinery and

33:34getting this stuff is is what's causing

33:36the little bit of a delay that I would

33:39like to rectify. Well, if your slopes

33:42are steeper than 3 to one where the ice

33:45edge would hit, you know, during ice

33:47action during during normal pool, you're

33:50going to find that you're going to get

33:51an ice shelf developed if you have

33:54steeper than 3 to one. Um

33:56>> yes that's so all the outsides I have

33:58I'm going to again um towards the house

34:01area and right around uh towards 171

34:05side that pitch is all nice right now

34:07and

34:08>> we're going to start r uh running that

34:10all the way around the ridge line of the

34:12pond.

34:13>> So it's a it's a nice walk-in um and b

34:17yeah yeah it doesn't cause any issues.

34:19Yeah, you're you're going to run out of

34:21time pretty soon because your

34:23groundwater is going to start to rebound

34:24pretty soon. So, you kind of got to get

34:26it finished. [laughter]

34:28>> It's pushing out water pretty fast now,

34:30but luckily there's uh there's room for

34:32it to increase. So,

34:34>> that's all the questions that I had.

34:37>> Uh just for note, this is Bill Rwinsky

34:39that Kathy Bareric has joined our

34:41meeting.

34:44>> Thank you.

34:47Yeah,

34:48>> I don't have any further questions.

34:50>> Yes, we can hear you, Kathy.

34:52>> Oh, good. Thanks.

34:56>> Yeah, if anyone has any questions, I'm

34:58happy to happy to answer.

35:02>> Now, from Josh's explanation, he

35:05provided information that he would be

35:08firming up that uh banking on the Route

35:11171 side of the causeway. That was my

35:15only real concern.

35:19So, unless anybody has any other

35:21questions, could we have a mo motion on

35:24this?

35:27>> Um, let's see. Do we have a receipt date

35:30for this modification?

35:33>> When it was submitted,

35:36>> I believe it was the 4th.

35:39>> It was a few days after we had

35:41>> the same date that he signed the applic.

35:43Correct.

35:44>> Okay.

35:45>> Because it was submitted electronically.

35:46So I think uh what yeah what we did not

35:49do was print a hard copy of this, stamp

35:52it and scan it back.

35:54>> Yeah.

35:55>> But this so this was sub received and

35:57submitted that date.

35:59>> Okay. So, um, I'll move to approve

36:06a request to modify

36:09inland wetlands permit 05-20-10

36:14received by the Inland Wetlands and

36:16Water Courses Agency on

36:20August 4th, 2026

36:27as applied for

36:33I'll second the motion. Sorry.

36:40Okay. So we have motion by Mara Buts,

36:42seconded by Stuart Peasley to approve

36:45the modification to application 05-20-10

36:51for Josh Pratt for Nine Basset Hill Road

36:55as presented in his modification

36:58application.

36:59Any further discussion?

37:02All those in favor signify by saying I.

37:05>> I.

37:05>> I.

37:08>> I appreciate you guys. Anybody opposed?

37:12>> Anybody [snorts] abstain?

37:16The motion passes.

37:18>> Sorry, Bill.

37:18>> Hey, thank you, Josh.

37:20>> Thank you. I appreciate you and I hope

37:21it uh hope it's easy on the eyes.

37:26>> Yeah.

37:27>> Thank you, Josh.

37:32>> Okay, moving on to new applications.

37:35We have application 08-26-01

37:40uh 112 Woodstock Road map 5167

37:46block 11 lot 36A Mark Billings new

37:51office building and upland review area

37:55and who do we have Mr. Barry

37:57representing them this evening?

37:59>> Yes, I'm here bill.

38:04Okay. Uh would you like to just give us

38:07a b a brief overview?

38:09>> Um so they're looking to do a uh 33t by

38:1431 ft uh accessory structure um next to

38:18their their main garage building that

38:20they'd like to use uh as office space.

38:32Well, store peas here, I have a

38:35question. Um, what constitutes an

38:37accessory building? What what is the

38:39definition of that in this application?

38:44>> Uh, the definition of an accessory

38:46building,

38:48>> is this the only building on the site?

38:51>> No, they have uh on the map it shows

38:53building 112. That's like their main

38:55garage area where they store like their

38:57equipment um and and trucks, their work

39:00trucks. Um, oh, actually, yeah, they

39:03they

39:04>> appears and there appears there's a

39:05metal barn, a 40 by 40 metal barn to the

39:07rear as well.

39:08>> Okay, so there was another building.

39:11>> I'm I'll bring up I'll bring up the

39:12town's GIS uh aerial photo so you can

39:14see.

39:15>> All right.

39:17>> This was formerly uh is it Anderson

39:20Construction

39:22across from the Muddy Book Fire Station?

39:24>> That's correct.

39:41So on the aerial you can see the

39:42existing building the pond and so the

39:46the proposed accessory building would go

39:47in between.

39:48>> I see. Okay. Thank you.

39:50>> So there is a a dry hydrant in that

39:53pond. Where is that located in relation

39:56to the build proposed building?

39:59>> The the fire the town the fire hydrant

40:01for the

40:02>> Yes. The town came in and got the fire

40:04department came in and got a use

40:06permitted as of right for a dry hydrant

40:08a couple years back and I believe that

40:10was installed in that pond.

40:12>> Yeah. So I don't zoom in John. Uh if you

40:15see the area where the driveway kind of

40:17curls there think you can see a little

40:19that little shadow area. Yep. Yep.

40:23>> Okay. Got it.

40:25>> So, this won't am I indicating the right

40:27area here?

40:28>> Yes.

40:29>> Right here.

40:29>> So, this won't interfere with access to

40:31that dry hydrant then

40:33>> closer to the new structures closer to

40:37>> Yeah. Okay.

40:42>> And my recollection is

40:44>> here. Do you uh

40:47>> Yep. Bill.

40:50>> Okay. The uh

40:53two concrete covers, are those existing

40:56already there? I don't recall.

40:57>> The existing one, to my knowledge, one

41:01is the well that still serves building

41:02112 and one is a well that was abandoned

41:06that used to serve the house uh 116

41:10um of the pre when it

41:12>> Okay.

41:16>> Yeah. See, you can see the circle next

41:18to 112 to the left of it. That's the one

41:20I did see the

41:24the the two on the front. I don't

41:26>> that one right there.

41:26>> Didn't recall there, but I just looked

41:27quickly yesterday. So,

41:28>> yep, that's the uh septic tank for the

41:32building.

41:35>> Okay.

41:38There's something There appears to be

41:40something right here. I don't know. That

41:41might be one of the concrete covers.

41:45Yeah, it's it's in that area there.

41:47Definitely a little harder to see, but

41:55I don't have any questions about this

41:58activity. Uh,

42:02>> do we have any reason to believe that

42:04there are wetlands in the area

42:06around the pond?

42:10I don't I don't beyond what you see in

42:13the as the scope of the pond. I don't I

42:15don't believe so.

42:17>> Bill Ritzky between the pond and the

42:19barn. It's just a gentle slope to the

42:22pond for my recollection.

42:24>> Yep.

42:27>> Yeah. And that's why I was asking

42:28whether or not anybody had ever done any

42:30delineation of wetlands for this

42:32property.

42:35Do you have do you know if there's

42:37because this was a subdivision at some

42:38point or at least it was a single split.

42:41Looks like it might have been a free

42:42split. Yeah.

42:46Yeah, it looks like it was a free split.

42:48So there probably wasn't any delineation

42:50done when that free split was done.

42:53Um

42:59yeah. Oh, let me just take a look at the

43:01topography.

43:03I don't think there is. I I've driven by

43:05there a number of times and there's no

43:08indication of um wet meadow species.

43:13There is at the inlet to the pond on

43:16each side. In fact, there's some

43:18cattails and stuff, and you can tell

43:20that the inlet does have, even though

43:22there's no delineation by uh the soils,

43:25the original general soils, but there is

43:28a swath of marsh land that goes from the

43:32pond up towards a swamp. But I don't

43:35recall seeing anything that looked like

43:38wet meadow um in that field. In fact,

43:42the slopes would indicate that it's

43:43probably not. So that's So this would

43:46just be a wetlands agent approval.

43:51>> I have no problem being processed as a

43:53wetlands agent approval.

44:00>> I agree.

44:03So I move that application 08-26-01

44:071112 Woodstock Road map 5167 block 11

44:12lot 36A by Mark Billings Billings for a

44:17new office building in the upland review

44:18area be process as a wetlands agent

44:20approval.

44:22>> Second the motion.

44:24>> Okay. A motion by model, second by

44:27Stuart Peasley to designate application

44:310826-01

44:34112 Woodstock Road, map 5167, block 11,

44:39lot 36A for Mike Mark buildings as new

44:42office building in Upland Review area to

44:46designate that as a wetlands agent

44:48approval. Any further discussion?

44:52All those in favor signify by saying I.

44:55>> I.

44:55>> I.

44:56>> I.

44:57>> Anybody opposed? Any abstain? Motion

45:01carries.

45:03>> Thank you, Mr. Barry.

45:05>> Thank you. Thanks, Nick.

45:06>> Yep.

45:09Okay. Next application. Application

45:1209-26-01

45:15110 Stonebridge Road map 5779

45:20uh block 55 lot 39 Putnham Fish and Game

45:24Club change of existing pond and I have

45:29hit this point going to disclose that I

45:31have a a member of the Putnham Fish and

45:33Game Club and thus have a conflict of

45:36interest. So I will recuse myself from

45:39the discussion at this point. So I've

45:42invited Stuart to take over uh

45:45discussion of this item.

45:50>> Thank you, Bill.

45:52Uh

45:55>> are you a good fisherman, Bill?

46:00>> Well, I'm just wondering how much we

46:01have to take here.

46:03>> The answer is no comment, Bill. No

46:04comment. Don't talk about your fishing

46:06skills.

46:11Uh,

46:15I thought this was a presented as a very

46:19astute

46:22fully informed kind of application.

46:25I to the point where we even have a

46:28looks like a zone

46:30uh

46:31a drone

46:33photograph of the pond. So there's no

46:36shortage of information which has really

46:38been helpful.

46:39>> Stu, I believe we have Mr. Vanderhell

46:41here to represent the application if

46:42you'd like a brief presentation.

46:44>> Very good.

46:47Yes, I would like one because I don't

46:49have an understanding of the water flow

46:50in through and out of the pond and how

46:53the dewatering is going to occur because

46:55I don't really see a real good diagram

46:57of how everything is going to lay out

46:59for the inlet and outlet where the

47:01pumping sump is going to be inside the

47:03internal portion of the palm. So, yes, I

47:06would like a discussion.

47:08>> Reed, you're on.

47:10>> Is there a map somewhere?

47:13Did I miss that?

47:15No, there's not a drawing that shows

47:18everything laid out. They're on

47:19photographs.

47:20>> Okay. Just the photographs. Okay.

47:22>> That's what it is right now. Yeah.

47:24>> Yep.

47:28>> All right. Well, you'll you'll please

47:29forgive my lack of architectural drawing

47:32capabilities, but [laughter]

47:35I felt you were probably better informed

47:37through the drawing or through the

47:39photographs than you were by anything

47:41that I could produce manually.

47:43um been too many years for that to go

47:45by. So what it is is basically the

47:48Putton Fish and Game Club is looking to

47:49try to remediate their pond existing.

47:52The pond is fed by groundwater and and

47:57um uh runoff. It has no input. It has no

48:01output.

48:04>> So just a collection basin

48:07>> basically. If if you built a retention

48:10pond, that's what it is. [laughter]

48:15Uh is there to Mara's point is there a

48:19point is what area of that if we're

48:24looking at the photographic or the

48:26national wetlands map what would be the

48:29high and low points where it would drain

48:33to.

48:34>> Okay. If you look at the the the diagram

48:36that has a 183 degree heading on it,

48:39which is the aerial photograph.

48:44All right, you're looking right straight

48:46at the exit or the drain point right

48:48there in the lower in the lower left in

48:51the center. That's it right there where

48:52your cursor is currently pointed at.

48:55>> Okay.

48:57>> And that was what was approved by the uh

49:00Army Corps of Engineers when it was

49:02originally drafted.

49:04When was that? When was

49:07>> back in about 1997?

49:10[laughter]

49:10>> Okay. Okay. Because all of our records

49:13were destroyed that that that were that

49:15old. So, we don't have any of those

49:17records.

49:19Um, so when you go to dewater this, what

49:23you're going to have to do cuz you're

49:24basically at groundwater table and

49:26you've got a big huge wetland system to

49:28your east. How are you going to dewater

49:31it? What? Have you figured out what size

49:33pumps you're going to need to dewater?

49:35>> We're going to use basically a single

49:37evacuation pump with a 4 inch line on

49:39it. So, it's basically putting out about

49:41850 gallons per hour.

49:44>> All right. All total, I think we're

49:47looking at a little south of 13,000

49:49gallons left remaining in there. And

49:51that's probably being generous

49:54>> because of the fact that the rainfall

49:56totals haven't actually met the

49:58expectations this year. Uh we do believe

50:01that the silting has started to move in

50:03and act as kind of a ground plug

50:06[clears throat]

50:06>> which inhibits the groundwater from

50:08actually feeding at this point.

50:10>> So we have a great deal of basically

50:13evaporative effect at this point.

50:16>> The current level is actually almost 9

50:18ft below its original design.

50:24So, do you ever augment the water in the

50:26pond with the water from the surrounding

50:29wetlands?

50:31>> We have not. We have we have augmented

50:34maybe from the stream on occasion and

50:36that's only for the fact is that when we

50:38put fish in there, we'd prefer not to

50:40see them die. And we have asked is that

50:43permissible and we've never received any

50:46push back.

50:47So just as a comment, I would suggest

50:50that you might consider installing a

50:52well and using well water which is cold.

50:55>> Yeah.

50:56>> To supply the water. Then it doesn't end

50:59up beingcoming an issue with taking it

51:01out of a water course which you know

51:04that be can become problematic. And

51:07under the water diversion policy act,

51:09you can take up to 50,000 gallons a day

51:12from a well point um per day without

51:17needing any kind of you know diversion

51:19permit. And if the well was at a

51:22location that's not in wetlands or water

51:24course, you don't necessarily need an

51:26approval from the inland wetlands

51:28agency.

51:30So that might be a consideration you

51:32might want to think about in the future

51:34because you are on an aquifer, a sand

51:37and gravel aquifer where you are.

51:40>> And that would kill two birds with one

51:42stone so to speak. You know, keep your

51:44water cold and also you wouldn't be

51:46getting the nutrient influx for the

51:48water course. Whenever you take water in

51:50from a stream, you're probably going to

51:53get nutrients coming in from external

51:55sources. But if you're taking it from a

51:57well head, you're probably getting much

52:00much less nutrients putting into your

52:02pond. Um, the other thing I wanted was

52:05wondering about is typically when you're

52:08dewatering a site like this because

52:10you're going to have you you'll work it

52:11one day, you'll go overnight and and

52:13when the night goes by, if you've

52:15unleashed some groundwater discharge

52:18coming into the ponded area, you're

52:20going to want to have that

52:23pumped back down at the before you start

52:25your construction because the less water

52:27you have to deal with that's turbid, the

52:30easier it's going to be to operate. So

52:33there is a thing called a pumping sump

52:36and you'd have to locate that someplace

52:38on the pond that where you would be

52:40having your as you leave the project at

52:44night time and you come in in the

52:46morning where you can pump it back down

52:47to keep your bottom sediments as dry as

52:50possible so that you don't have as much

52:53problem handling those sediments because

52:55they're going to be mucky. Right. That's

52:57why we, if you look at photograph A2,

53:01which is off of the National Wetlands

53:03Inventory there,

53:04>> there's an indication of a sump being

53:06drawn up into the forested area there

53:11just to the um west.

53:15And that's our intended depository for

53:17the the the sumping action that the for

53:20the remaining. The the intent here being

53:23is is that we would actually start

53:25excavating all of the material to the

53:28south end of the pond, leaving as much

53:31as possible to act as a natural coffer

53:34dam to try to minimize the amount of of

53:37um of invasive water at that point. Um

53:41but also at the same time, when this

53:44pond was first installed, basically it

53:48was let's dig a hole and throw some

53:50water in it. They didn't look at

53:51architecture as far as for you know what

53:54is a good pond, what's a healthy pond.

53:57Um I've coordinated and and and

54:01collaborated with uh several u uh deep

54:05biologists um other biologists uh

54:08academics

54:10um inland fisheries and they have

54:13provided us with a wealth of input in

54:15the fact is is that all right to try to

54:18stabilize the wall of this thing we

54:20would line it with rip rock

54:22[clears throat] at about 18 in below the

54:24water level we would put in a basically

54:27a thermaline shelf with number two

54:29stone. And that allows for that

54:31variation, that temperature variation

54:33for smaller fish. And then at the

54:37water's edge itself, we would actually

54:40put another shelf in and then line it or

54:44basically cover it in about 10 in of

54:46number two stone. On the north and south

54:49ends of the western side of the pond, we

54:52would install basically staircasing

54:55access to keep people off of the

54:57banking.

55:00>> Do you have those shown on a drawing

55:01where where you going to put those

55:03stairs?

55:03>> Uh, no. I didn't put the stairs on the

55:05drawing. [laughter]

55:07Okay. All right. Can we go back to um

55:10your um pumping your sump pumping?

55:14>> Yes, absolutely.

55:15>> Two. All right. It looks like you have a

55:17water course that comes down next near

55:19there.

55:20>> Yeah.

55:21>> So, um the concern that I have, Hold on

55:25a second. My phone is alarm is going

55:27off. Okay. So, the concern that I have

55:30is is if you are pumping turbid water

55:34and typically when you're doing a

55:36pumping operation, you have a pumping

55:37settling basin. the these. So, but if

55:41you had a pumping sump inside the

55:43internal portion of the pond that you

55:45put in very early on, which basically is

55:48a perforated pipe standing up straight

55:50surrounded by stone and may have a

55:52geoteexile, may not have a geoteexile

55:55that you take your water from. So, the

55:57water that you're pumping out is clean

55:58water,

55:59>> right?

55:59>> It's not turbid,

56:01>> right?

56:01>> And then you don't have as much of a

56:03concern about that discharge heading

56:06towards that water course. This is a

56:08public water supply watershed for the

56:10town of Putnham. There's on the little

56:12river. This contributes to the little

56:14river. So the concern would be is to

56:16minimize the amount of sediment that

56:17could reach into that water column.

56:20>> Right.

56:20>> Um the you don't show any details for

56:23any pumping sump or uh dewatering

56:27facilities for it. And where are you

56:30going to put the spoils? Where are you

56:33gonna stockpile the soils to dry out

56:36until so you can move them or are you

56:38going to move them as soon as you dig

56:40them out? You're going to move them to a

56:41separate location. Where is that

56:43location?

56:43>> We're going to move them as they're

56:45extracted. There's no sense in in

56:46depositing soils to dry it out only to

56:49move it again a second time.

56:51>> Okay. Are you moving it on your site?

56:53>> Yes.

56:54>> Okay. You need a location for where that

56:56is. We don't know where that is. We want

56:57to make sure that's not in wetlands or

56:59water courses.

57:00>> Uh it is in the backside of that. um u

57:05abandoned gravel pit.

57:06>> I don't know where the sand and gravel

57:08pit is. I'm not familiar with the site.

57:10>> I understand.

57:11>> Um

57:12>> I'll take that as an action.

57:14>> Yeah. Um so in the if you uh look up the

57:18Connecticut guidelines for soil erosion

57:20and control, they're on D's website.

57:24If you Google CT Connecticut guidelines

57:27for soil erosion sanitrol, they are

57:31electronically available online. They

57:34have pumping sump details. They have um

57:37dewatering

57:39uh details. They have uh pumping

57:42settling basin details. So if you needed

57:44some details for how to do this work,

57:46you can you you can refer to that

57:49document.

57:51>> Okay. That's when I I I I'm think enough

57:56detail. I know Stu, you felt there was

57:58enough, but I I think need to see

58:02>> where some of this stuff is cuz I I

58:04don't understand where the gravel pit

58:06is. I don't understand where the pumping

58:08sump would be in the bottom of the pond.

58:10Um what the extent of the stone is, you

58:13know, that would be like in in a plan

58:15sheet. And since this is an actual

58:18permit, we can't render decision on it

58:20tonight anyways. we have to wait till

58:22next month, which gives time to pull in

58:25a diagram that shows what you just

58:28described. You know, where you're going

58:30to dispose of it, where your pumping

58:32sump's going to be. Are you going to

58:33have a a a pumping settling basin to

58:37take the pumped water to before it

58:39drains off towards a wetland or water

58:41course? Um where the stone's going to be

58:44placed along the edges of the pond,

58:45where the stone stair where the stairs

58:47are going to be to keep the people off

58:49the edge of the bank. though that would

58:50be in a diagram as opposed to onto a

58:53photograph.

58:54>> Well, there is a diagram of it.

58:55>> Okay. Where is that? What page is that?

58:57>> There's a se there's a section diagram.

58:59I think what she's talking about um

59:02>> Jay is a

59:03>> plan view.

59:04>> Plan view.

59:05>> Oh, you want a plan view diagram?

59:07>> Yeah, this is just this is just a looks

59:09like a typical cross-section of one

59:11particular area, but I don't know where

59:13it applies to.

59:15>> I see. All right. So, if we had a

59:18diagram that showed those things, I

59:21mean, I'm trying to think of what would

59:23be the easiest way to do it. I mean, you

59:26still could take the the aerial

59:29photograph,

59:31but then mark on the aerial photograph

59:32and then look at the details for what's

59:34a pumping sump and a deatering settling

59:39basin and then showing the location of

59:41where you're going to deposit the

59:42spoils. The other thing you might want

59:44to think about is if your if your if

59:46your sediments are

59:49pretty mucky when you dig them go to dig

59:52them up because it's probably mostly

59:54organic is from what I'm hearing. It's

59:56not not sediments. It's going to be

59:58muck.

59:58>> No, it's not. It's not organic. We've

1:00:01already tested it raw. We we invited

1:00:04Rosson out to actually give us a a test

1:00:06of it and the truth of the matter is is

1:00:08it's 94% sediment.

1:00:11What do you mean by sediment?

1:00:13>> In other words, it's basically stone

1:00:15wash.

1:00:16>> Where'd it come from?

1:00:19>> Because you're not connected to a water

1:00:20course, so it's not bed load.

1:00:22>> No, it's been 10 years of basically

1:00:24rainwash

1:00:25>> from what? What? What soil contributed

1:00:28to? You mean edges of the pond? The

1:00:31>> edges of the edges of the pond.

1:00:33>> Ah, okay. Built

1:00:35>> it's built in an old abandoned uh rock

1:00:38quarry.

1:00:39>> Okay.

1:00:41So basically the only predominant soil

1:00:43that's there is silt. [laughter]

1:00:47>> Okay. So so the side slopes of the pond

1:00:49are unstable then is what you're saying.

1:00:53>> Yes, no and maybe. All right. As far as

1:00:55for the term of unstable being

1:00:56concerned. Uh they have been eroded back

1:00:59considerably.

1:01:00>> Okay.

1:01:01>> All right.

1:01:02>> Um and that has contributed to the

1:01:06sediment the sedimentation of the pond

1:01:08itself. So if you look at the western

1:01:11side, the the actual water depths in

1:01:14there run anywhere between four and

1:01:16almost six feet. If you go to the

1:01:18eastern side, all right, the the water

1:01:21depths run all on an average of six

1:01:24feet. Okay, so it tells me that it's

1:01:27actually coming from that western slope

1:01:30and moving down. Okay.

1:01:33>> But that's basically I think almost 12

1:01:36years worth of sedimentation.

1:01:39>> Have you had active realing occurring

1:01:41there?

1:01:42>> I'm sorry.

1:01:43>> Have you had active realing? Reing of

1:01:45the embankment? You know, can you

1:01:47identify that it's unstable with it's

1:01:49not vegetated? So it's

1:01:51>> Oh, it's vegetated. That's that that it

1:01:53is. So no, there there's no active

1:01:56really.

1:01:57>> All right.

1:02:00Well,

1:02:02usually when you have sediment movement

1:02:04to that extent, you would expect it to

1:02:06be actively having active eroded erosion

1:02:10at time. All right. Well, I would move

1:02:13to accept this application with the

1:02:16understanding that we'd receive a

1:02:17diagram

1:02:19uh showing the features that were

1:02:21referenced tonight such as the

1:02:26deposition uh of the sediments that are

1:02:30to be removed from the pond. the um

1:02:34pumping sump, the discharge from the

1:02:37pumping sump. It's uh at any water

1:02:41handling such as a pumping settling

1:02:43basin

1:02:45um and where the extent of the stone is

1:02:47going to go and where the stairs are

1:02:51going to go to reduce access so that we

1:02:54know what the features are in it. If

1:02:56those could be added in by next month, I

1:02:58I wouldn't have a problem moving forward

1:03:01with this application.

1:03:03But I think we need to know those

1:03:05details

1:03:06where they're located, where all that is

1:03:08located.

1:03:10>> Was that a motion, Mar?

1:03:12>> No. I can make that. Yes, I I move that

1:03:16application. 9-26-10

1:03:20for 110 Stonebridge Road, map

1:03:245779,

1:03:26block 55, lot 39 by the Putnham Fish

1:03:30Endgame Club

1:03:32for

1:03:34[snorts]

1:03:36cleaning

1:03:38of an existing pond

1:03:42with the request that the applicant

1:03:44submit a drawing

1:03:47showing the location of the spoil site.

1:03:52Any pumping sump in the pond itself, any

1:03:58discharge from any pumping operation.

1:04:02uh with any dewatering settling basin

1:04:06and the location of any stabilization of

1:04:10the banks of the pond

1:04:13and any features such as stone I think

1:04:18you said stairs

1:04:20>> to limit access along the bank of the

1:04:23pond.

1:04:26>> Second to that motion.

1:04:29>> I'll second that motion.

1:04:31All those in favor?

1:04:33>> I.

1:04:35>> All those opposed.

1:04:39Any abstain?

1:04:42>> Winsky abstain.

1:04:44>> Motion passes with two votes I and one

1:04:48abstain. Abstension.

1:04:52>> John, can could you give Jay any help

1:04:55that he needs for the um guidelines for

1:04:58soil erosion sediment control? Sure.

1:05:01>> For where he can find them on the DP's

1:05:04website,

1:05:05>> I'll send him a link this evening.

1:05:07>> Okay. Thank you.

1:05:08>> The only thing I would add is that the

1:05:10the drawing be specified as a plan view.

1:05:14It doesn't necessarily have to be scale.

1:05:19Just show the north arrow. And it can be

1:05:23extrapolated from the access GIS map

1:05:26that the town provides.

1:05:29But uh those would be my only comments

1:05:31on the generating of that drawing.

1:05:34>> Okay. Yep, we can do that.

1:05:37>> All right,

1:05:40that would be helpful. Thank you.

1:05:46So, uh

1:05:48we'll

1:05:50reinstate Bill Ruinsky as uh

1:05:55restored chairman.

1:05:59>> [laughter]

1:05:59>> Okay, we'll move on to administrative

1:06:02business, the wetlands agent report.

1:06:07Uh, nothing significant to report beyond

1:06:10the activities that we've been

1:06:12discussing this evening. Uh, working

1:06:14with all of the the applicants to get

1:06:16their um documentation in order. uh

1:06:19continuing to track um progress on on

1:06:23Butts Road Bridge, the proposed citation

1:06:25ordinance, which I believe I

1:06:27>> I think I threw a copy in here. Um and

1:06:30then and then participation in in uh the

1:06:32meeting at the end of July uh or August

1:06:34regarding um forms and and permit

1:06:37procedures, but uh no no major

1:06:41uh complaints or enforcement actions

1:06:43taking place. Um, Bill, I did uh send

1:06:46you sent in a a question about a

1:06:48property on Rose uh Rosland.

1:06:51Um,

1:06:51>> y

1:06:52>> and I I sent to the property owners

1:06:55there. I did I did an on-site uh a site

1:06:58visit or a a driveby and some

1:07:00photography and sent uh the owners a

1:07:05request for or just sort of a reminder

1:07:07about the necessity to seek wetlands

1:07:10approval for um work in or near the pond

1:07:13there. I didn't see a ton of evidence of

1:07:16any recent activity, but but just sent

1:07:18them a reminder that that any activity

1:07:20would require wetlands review.

1:07:21>> What was the property, John? Who's

1:07:24owning it? And what's the location?

1:07:26>> Uh that's three separate questions.

1:07:28Marla, let me get to the first one

1:07:30first. Um it was uh

1:07:3669.

1:07:38>> Is it 365 maybe? I don't know. Remember?

1:07:41>> Yeah, I'll I I can I can find it more

1:07:43quickly on the map. Um,

1:08:09uh, this property right here, this would

1:08:11be 345 Rosen Park Road. Yeah.

1:08:14Um,

1:08:17>> they have a dock in that they usually

1:08:18put in that pond. I've seen

1:08:20>> there. It looks like there's a float

1:08:22right in here. Right there. Um,

1:08:24>> a float. I mean, not a dock, a float.

1:08:25Yeah.

1:08:26>> Yeah. Uh, and it just looked like there

1:08:28was some um a little bit of maybe a

1:08:31little bit of mowing or a little bit of

1:08:32clearing right in this area right over

1:08:33here. Uh, separate from this kind of

1:08:36sitting area. Um, I didn't see any

1:08:39evidence of excavation or heavy

1:08:40equipment or anything like that. It

1:08:41looked like essentially mowing um down

1:08:46to the the water and maybe a little bit

1:08:48more bare ground right close to the

1:08:51water. Um so I again I no significant

1:08:55evidence of activity but I sent him just

1:08:57a reminder saying hey you have a pond

1:09:00just make sure you you you seek approval

1:09:01for any act if you're you know uh going

1:09:04to be going to be affecting the soils.

1:09:07>> They're they're not doing any earth

1:09:08moving work though are they? They're

1:09:09just doing mowing.

1:09:11>> I I didn't see any bill. I you I didn't

1:09:13you I don't know if you saw any heavy

1:09:14equipment. Um I did not see any evidence

1:09:16of heavy equipment when I went by.

1:09:18>> They had a smaller backhole loader like

1:09:21a tractor a little bit bigger than

1:09:23yours, Mala.

1:09:25>> Yeah. or I should say say your husband's

1:09:27[laughter] um

1:09:30just I I raised the issue because uh

1:09:33nobody else probably saw but excuse

1:09:36[clears throat] me

1:09:38the the weeds that are around the rest

1:09:40of the pond were actually around the

1:09:42whole pond

1:09:44>> including what was in the water and what

1:09:46was on the bank.

1:09:47>> So they must have pulled weeds out of

1:09:50the water also. Um, this picture doesn't

1:09:53really show all of it, but it was

1:09:56cattail weeded all the way around and

1:09:59the banks were kind of high weeds also,

1:10:03which the rest of the pond is still that

1:10:05way, but uh

1:10:06>> that was uh

1:10:08>> th this area in here did appear slightly

1:10:10more bare than it appears. This is a a

1:10:12three-year-old photo. This is a 2013

1:10:142023.

1:10:15>> Um, so I I would assume, Bill, they

1:10:17probably the weeds probably grew back

1:10:18and they and they were just pulling them

1:10:20out.

1:10:21Yeah.

1:10:26>> Yeah. But I've I've not received I I've

1:10:28not received any any follow-up uh

1:10:30communication from those folks.

1:10:31>> Bill, I have a couple of questions for

1:10:33John.

1:10:35>> Yeah.

1:10:36>> So, or maybe you can answer this

1:10:37question. I you know how the Economic

1:10:40Development Commission always puts out,

1:10:42you know, a newsletter once a month.

1:10:46Well, for September

1:10:48that under their section emergency boat

1:10:50launch at Crystal Pond and about the

1:10:53sixth line down in that statement says

1:10:56an a wetlands permit was filed for and

1:10:58approved.

1:11:00Well, my recollection is is when we came

1:11:02to the meeting last month that they'd

1:11:05found an alternative location for that

1:11:07emergency uh access and they withdrew

1:11:11their application. So, I don't know who

1:11:13does the report for the Economic

1:11:17Development Commission, but somehow

1:11:19somebody put in that it was filed and

1:11:21approved before we even approved it.

1:11:25>> Yeah.

1:11:25>> Um because it was withdrawn.

1:11:26>> We're we're anticipating a new

1:11:28application um from uh

1:11:34uh shoot,

1:11:36I can't remember his name. uh on Crystal

1:11:37Pond Road,

1:11:38>> the gentleman the the gentleman with

1:11:40that large piece that uh had been had

1:11:43was was doing a little enclave of of

1:11:46several small residential buildings

1:11:48there.

1:11:49>> Yep.

1:11:49>> Um that gentleman uh Steve

1:11:53um was was going to be submitting along

1:11:56with the fire department and the town uh

1:11:59a sort of a joint application for the

1:12:01development of that property. So, it's

1:12:02it's pending. I've seen I've seen

1:12:04correspondents going back and forth on

1:12:05it, but yeah, it's still pending. So

1:12:07that's yeah, bad reportage by the uh

1:12:10economic development.

1:12:11>> And I have a question about that on the

1:12:13neighbor. I don't know if this is the

1:12:15time or if I should wait until comments

1:12:17about that. Uh because the man is

1:12:19bringing in boulders to that area

1:12:21without permission. He's put in a uh uh

1:12:25co uh an area to hold his boat rack

1:12:27within 20 feet of the shoreline.

1:12:30Um, and I have been having issues with

1:12:34water runoff going down in that area.

1:12:37And I was wondering what he was going to

1:12:39be using uh for whether it be processed

1:12:42rock, gravel, or boulders in that area.

1:12:45Um, and I don't know if this is a good

1:12:47time or is this not the right time to

1:12:49ask questions.

1:12:50>> Mr. Mr. Chairman, I've I've been

1:12:52addressing these uh concerns as my in my

1:12:55in my uh role as uh enforcement agent. I

1:13:00I it's you know if uh it's your it's

1:13:03your it's your call, but I I' I've been

1:13:04dealing with these on an administrative

1:13:06level.

1:13:10>> Okay. Well, if you'd like to discuss it

1:13:12at this point, we might we're already

1:13:13into it a little bit. We might as well

1:13:16continue.

1:13:18>> Do you have any uh

1:13:20>> Yeah, go ahead.

1:13:22>> Okay. So, um there was an issue with

1:13:25runoff and silk going into the lake. Um

1:13:29they did uh take care of that. I believe

1:13:31John did talk to them about it. They

1:13:33extended the black fence and they put in

1:13:38um uh hay bales to stop the water the

1:13:42runoff into the lake. My concern is if

1:13:45they plan to extend the road going down

1:13:49to say a boat launch area, how much of

1:13:51that still is going to start going into

1:13:55the water? Um, I know in prior times you

1:13:59guys have said to Mr. Gabriel that he

1:14:02couldn't do anything within 125 ft and

1:14:06yet he still continues to bring in

1:14:09boulders and move things. He did have uh

1:14:13a piece of wire or metal steel post in

1:14:17the lake that I believe John must have

1:14:20asked him to remove because he did

1:14:21remove that. Um, but I have a problem

1:14:25like are they going to be doing some

1:14:27type of a diversion of the water so it

1:14:29doesn't run directly into the lake. Um,

1:14:33and how to, you know, what we can do to

1:14:37prevent cuz where the water comes from

1:14:40the top. I mean, that is the one of the

1:14:42lowest line areas in the area where they

1:14:45want to put that boat launch.

1:14:47>> I would I would note, Mr. chair, if I

1:14:49might, that these these are questions

1:14:50that would be more uh suited to be

1:14:53addressed when the actual application is

1:14:55submitted. They're pretty much

1:14:56speculative at this point.

1:14:59>> So, John, one one comment that I had

1:15:03when we had talked about this last time

1:15:05when the application was withdrawn, I

1:15:06was making reference to um some kind of

1:15:10grid.

1:15:11So there is actually um concrete

1:15:17uh the turf stone pavers. They're um you

1:15:22can see ones that are similar to it I

1:15:24believe I said at the U

1:15:27YMCA

1:15:29>> along the road. They've installed some

1:15:31of these concrete. They're basically

1:15:34>> Yeah.

1:15:35>> Yeah. They're waffle grids and they

1:15:37allow for soil to be filled in. They're

1:15:39better than the the geoexile

1:15:43um that is a a waffle shape because they

1:15:48can withstand the the concrete pavers.

1:15:50They're I think they're around $10 for a

1:15:52square or something like that. They are

1:15:54actually can handle the heavier weight.

1:15:57And if you have to have a heavy

1:15:58emergency vehicle come in, whether or

1:16:01not it's on that property or on the

1:16:04town's Crystal Pond part property, uh

1:16:08that would be advisable for them to

1:16:09consider using that kind of stability

1:16:12because if they have to back up

1:16:14something that's heavy uh onto it like

1:16:17an ambulance or something like that,

1:16:19then that would if they're in the design

1:16:22stage now, that would be something to

1:16:24consider. Um they're called concrete

1:16:27grid pavers and you bas when I've seen

1:16:30them before um at at other places they

1:16:34look like grass but in actuality they're

1:16:36as hard as a as a road practically. It's

1:16:39just that the grass grows up through the

1:16:41holes in the concrete pavers.

1:16:43>> Yep. The the uh Westarmms Mall has an

1:16:46entire overflow parking lot that uses

1:16:48these.

1:16:48>> Yeah. And they're they're very

1:16:50effective. I mean,

1:16:51>> and they allow for infiltration into the

1:16:54ground and instead of runoff.

1:16:56>> Very very handy.

1:16:58>> Thank you.

1:17:00>> But again, Mr. Chair, this these items

1:17:02will be um you know, reviewable by the

1:17:05by the agency when when the application

1:17:07is submitted.

1:17:10>> Okay, that's fine. There is nothing

1:17:13>> two more questions

1:17:14>> actionable that's going on going along

1:17:16the way. So, go ahead, Mara. Okay, next

1:17:19question is, have we gotten anything

1:17:20from D about the FEMA new FEMA flood

1:17:23maps?

1:17:25>> They were talking about having them

1:17:26available and I heard October. I mean,

1:17:29I'll contact them again to find out

1:17:31what's happening.

1:17:32>> I've not seen anything myself.

1:17:34>> You haven't seen anything? So, I'll I'll

1:17:35give a call contact to them. And the

1:17:38other thing was is the um the uh DP

1:17:43reporting form.

1:17:46Um, I still cannot find it online to

1:17:49download.

1:17:51>> Um, [clears throat] and I have sent an

1:17:52email to DP, but what it looks like is

1:17:56that

1:17:58is that reporting form is all

1:18:00electronically submitted and it's not

1:18:03and it's we've have it set up that the

1:18:06applicant does that, but I don't know

1:18:08how we would get verification because

1:18:10the agent is the one who has to sign off

1:18:12on that. Um, I've I'm waiting for a

1:18:16contact back from D. So, John, when I

1:18:18find out whatever's the heck is going on

1:18:20with that reporting form, our

1:18:22application forms are still kind of

1:18:23hanging out because of that. But, um,

1:18:26now that's the other those are the other

1:18:28two things I had. So,

1:18:33Mara is the

1:18:34>> John, do you have anything else?

1:18:36>> Uh, no. Although I have I mean there is

1:18:38this

1:18:38>> you have anything else for report

1:18:40>> form. Uh Mara, have you seen this form?

1:18:44>> Yeah, that's the that interestingly

1:18:47enough is when you Google

1:18:50>> Yeah.

1:18:50>> D reporting form, what you're getting is

1:18:53not a D recogniz necessarily it, you

1:18:57look at the URL and it says GIS.

1:19:00>> But when you go to DP's website and you

1:19:03look for a link to this, yeah,

1:19:04>> there is none that exists. So the it's

1:19:07only Google telling you where to go, not

1:19:10DP. And so that was the problem that I

1:19:13had uh to start with. And second, I was

1:19:15trying to figure out how that's going to

1:19:16integrate in with our application forms.

1:19:19>> So I've asked them to tell me where is

1:19:21their where is D's official link to the

1:19:25new D reporting form and I'm just

1:19:27waiting for a response back from them on

1:19:29that.

1:19:29>> Okay. Yep. Yeah. No, I saw you. Thank

1:19:31you for copying me on that. I hadn't

1:19:33seen any response.

1:19:35Uh, and I have nothing, brother.

1:19:38>> Okay. Any correspondence?

1:19:41>> Um, I believe

1:19:42>> in Ros Park

1:19:44>> in

1:19:45uh in correspondence I put in I think

1:19:48the ordinance, the draft ordinance. Um,

1:19:51just because that was a decent place to

1:19:52put it. I don't know if you had any

1:19:53questions, but this is this is I believe

1:19:55going to be addressed

1:19:58uh in the next couple of weeks. There's

1:19:59a town meeting coming up, I believe. Um

1:20:03and uh this is a revised version uh with

1:20:06a bunch of changes following uh my

1:20:08meeting with first lechman uh Pquette

1:20:11and Mara on that where she had a lot of

1:20:14her her comments were incorporated into

1:20:16this revised version and the references

1:20:18to the wetlands agency and the wetlands

1:20:20citation ordinance were removed.

1:20:23So, John, I did have a quick a chance to

1:20:25quickly take a look at it and it does

1:20:27look like all of the concerns that I had

1:20:29originally raised um that what I felt

1:20:33were critical have been addressed. Um

1:20:36the only thing that I noticed is

1:20:37different is I originally had asked that

1:20:39anybody who was um

1:20:43was um issuing the citations get the

1:20:46advice and consent of the entity, the

1:20:48agency that's responsible for the

1:20:50regulations. and they did not choose to

1:20:53put that in and that's okay. That's it

1:20:55doesn't affect the inland wetlands and

1:20:56water courses agency, but

1:20:59>> um I noticed all the other changes were

1:21:01made. So

1:21:03>> I'm not going to have a problem with it.

1:21:08>> So that's what I have, Bill.

1:21:11>> Okay. Uh moving on to financial report.

1:21:15It's still relatively early in the year

1:21:18and we still have funds available.

1:21:23So, I don't know if there's much more we

1:21:24can comment on that. Um,

1:21:27just to have you

1:21:30with the

1:21:31>> legal notice that we had to give.

1:21:33>> I'm sorry to interrupt. I apologize.

1:21:36Khakiwick's annual meeting is coming up

1:21:39and it's the I don't know if any John if

1:21:42you've gotten any notifications from

1:21:43Kakiwick because we are members of

1:21:45Khakiwick.

1:21:47Um what the date is.

1:21:48>> Yeah, I I I received something in one of

1:21:51my other emails. I didn't receive

1:21:52anything in Woodstock yet. Um

1:21:55let's see.

1:21:57>> Because that's what some of our budget

1:21:59monies would go to.

1:22:01>> Yeah, the meeting is October 28th is the

1:22:03Oh, no. That's an invasive plant

1:22:05seminar. uh symposium. Hang on. The you

1:22:07the annual conference is the

1:22:09>> Yeah, it's November.

1:22:10>> Annual conference is November 14th.

1:22:12>> Yeah. So, I would like I'm planning on

1:22:15going and I don't know if anybody else

1:22:16is planning on going.

1:22:18>> Where is it?

1:22:20>> It's in Cromwell at the Marriott.

1:22:23>> Okay.

1:22:25>> But we should probably make sure our uh

1:22:29membership is up to date, too.

1:22:32I don't know. Yeah, Saturday.

1:22:34>> Last time that was

1:22:36>> Saturday the 14th in promo. Um I don't

1:22:39see

1:22:41there's there's their advertising

1:22:42sponsorship opportunities. I don't see

1:22:43registration

1:22:45open yet.

1:22:49>> Uh you might not be at the right

1:22:53Yeah, they might not have it out yet.

1:22:56>> Yeah,

1:22:57>> watch. Yeah, it says watch for more

1:22:59information. So this is current. You

1:23:01just pulled it up. Yeah, you have. Okay.

1:23:04>> What's that? Like six hours.

1:23:06>> It's a whole day.

1:23:08>> Whole day.

1:23:09>> Continental breakfast, free lunch.

1:23:12>> Really good. Some of them are really

1:23:13good speakers. There's always a legal

1:23:15component.

1:23:16>> Uh updating on legal stuff.

1:23:21>> So I will more descriptions on that. So

1:23:24I would I'm going to I plan to go no

1:23:27matter what.

1:23:28>> Yeah. when when uh if I get information

1:23:31on uh

1:23:34registration and meeting annual meeting

1:23:36that's 2025. Yeah. When I when I see

1:23:38anything about registration, I'll

1:23:39forward it to the agency members and and

1:23:42see who wants to sign up if we want to

1:23:44do that.

1:23:44>> Yeah.

1:23:45>> Uh through through the town.

1:23:47>> So, we have enough money, Bill, to have

1:23:50multiple people go this year. [snorts]

1:23:52>> Uh let's see. Uh $400.

1:23:56>> That should be enough

1:23:57>> in conferences. But uh dues have to come

1:24:00out of that. I don't know when they are

1:24:03paid. Uh John, we usually do that with

1:24:07split with conservation commission.

1:24:09>> So I'm not sure when the renewal was or

1:24:13is whether we're still up to date on

1:24:15that. So

1:24:16>> Okay. I can I can take a look at that.

1:24:18Would

1:24:18>> you mind checking on that? Sure. Yeah.

1:24:19>> Because we get a break if we remember.

1:24:22>> Yeah.

1:24:28Do you have particular people like

1:24:31old-timers, new timers, anybody?

1:24:35Anybody? [laughter]

1:24:36It's a good thing to go because they

1:24:38actually have like sponsors, the

1:24:40advertisers that come in and they have

1:24:43all kinds of different um tables that

1:24:46you can go during the breakout sessions.

1:24:49Um like at before it starts and at

1:24:52lunchtime and stuff and you can collect

1:24:54information.

1:24:56Um and then there's three sets of

1:24:58seminars. Um, and you pick one of the

1:25:02groupings of the each seminar, sections

1:25:04of seminars. So, one section is always

1:25:07on beginning stuff. There's usually some

1:25:09stuff on conservation stuff. There's

1:25:11usually stuff on legal stuff. Um,

1:25:16>> and it

1:25:17>> there's always something to learn.

1:25:19>> Fulfills the requirement that as that

1:25:22we're required to have these.

1:25:25>> Nope. We have no we have no education

1:25:28requirements other than we have to be

1:25:29able to pass the uh the um

1:25:34the training program.

1:25:37>> John we does everybody have to do that

1:25:39now?

1:25:40>> I believe every member of the of the

1:25:42wetlands commission wetlands agency has

1:25:44to has to uh do the the wetlands

1:25:46training.

1:25:46>> Is there a deadline for that?

1:25:49>> Oh that's a good question. Um

1:25:54I do not know. Let me find out. I will I

1:25:56will and I can forward around the link

1:25:58to that.

1:26:00>> That would be good.

1:26:05>> It's I I just refreshed and I had the

1:26:10wetlands training already. You have to

1:26:11redo it even if you've been you've done

1:26:13it. So, I actually just finished that

1:26:14myself, the redo. Um yeah, I'll I will

1:26:18find out. I'll I'll send around a link

1:26:19to the for the training for all of you.

1:26:23>> Yep. Thank you.

1:26:28Okay. Uh move on now to

1:26:37the draft

1:26:39application forms.

1:26:41Let me just ask a quick question so we

1:26:43don't have to go there. Butts road, is

1:26:45there anything significant there? Just

1:26:47moving a pole, I think you said.

1:26:49>> Yeah. Uh re yeah re ref re ref re ref re

1:26:51ref re ref re ref re ref re ref re ref

1:26:51re ref refflging and yeah ref refflging

1:26:53um the wetland so that they could they

1:26:55could move a pole and and yeah that's

1:26:57that's all that's been lately.

1:27:02Okay. For the draft applications, I

1:27:05believe it's the file that's labeled MB

1:27:09that we want to

1:27:10>> look at. I think that's the latest

1:27:14>> Okay.

1:27:14>> revision.

1:27:15>> Mhm.

1:27:16>> So,

1:27:19>> okay. A couple things that I would like

1:27:21to see.

1:27:23Um,

1:27:28one is to have a revision date on the

1:27:30bottom. Mhm.

1:27:33>> And also uh approval date.

1:27:40>> Are you are you talking about the the

1:27:41instruction form or or the the actual

1:27:44docu the the the fillable forms

1:27:46themselves?

1:27:48>> Everything.

1:27:49>> Okay.

1:27:50>> Okay. So you're asking for two different

1:27:52>> instruction.

1:27:54>> So do you want an approval date or a

1:27:56revision date? which you should have

1:27:59only one date. It's either it's approved

1:28:01or it's not or it's revised or it's not.

1:28:04So,

1:28:04>> well then I guess we have a revision

1:28:06date would be the

1:28:08>> okay

1:28:08>> the most accurate one.

1:28:10>> That's easy enough. So, what I'll do is

1:28:12I will remove the file name

1:28:15from the footer

1:28:18>> and replace it with a revision date.

1:28:22>> Yeah.

1:28:23>> Revised and with a date.

1:28:26That should take care of it. The only

1:28:28reason why I put the file names on it is

1:28:30because when I've assigned the file

1:28:32names to them, I actually put a date for

1:28:36it then. So, you know what date this

1:28:38this draft is because there's been so

1:28:40many drafts. Um,

1:28:44so that's not a problem. I can easily

1:28:46just I can change that out.

1:28:48I also added in your uh please print

1:28:52that you wanted, Bill, for everything.

1:28:55But I after our discussions on last

1:28:58month uh the special meeting if you go

1:29:00to page six of that um document the MB

1:29:06IWA

1:29:07>> of the of the PDF. Yeah.

1:29:08>> Yeah. This one.

1:29:10>> Yeah. So I I changed the word request

1:29:13because of our discussion about requests

1:29:15versus applications.

1:29:17I I switched out the the word request to

1:29:20application. And that's that's why I put

1:29:23it in red line so that you could see we

1:29:25hadn't talked about that. Um but we had

1:29:28decided that there was kind of like a

1:29:30distinction between what's a request

1:29:32form and what's an application form. So

1:29:34we I shouldn't shouldn't mix up the

1:29:36words. So if this is application forms

1:29:39that should only reference applications

1:29:41and not requests.

1:29:43So that got changed at the very

1:29:46beginning. Uh page one and two are

1:29:52originally when we started looking at

1:29:54this last year. I had um an in uh

1:29:58request. I had an instruction sheet and

1:30:01Bill, you had said you would like to

1:30:03have the fees put in the instruction

1:30:07sheet. And so I I did that. And then I

1:30:11also noticed that because and you can

1:30:14see it there because we had a discussion

1:30:16about applications versus uh request

1:30:20forms, I changed the language from the

1:30:22original. So when you go to page um

1:30:25three and four and five, those are red

1:30:30lines. I reorganized everything and I

1:30:33wanted to be forget that there's green.

1:30:36The green is the same thing as the red.

1:30:37It's red line. Um I changed some of the

1:30:40language to using the original one that

1:30:44we developed last year and added a bunch

1:30:47of stuff and moved stuff around and I

1:30:49wanted you all to see it. But then I

1:30:52gave you the black line on the first two

1:30:54pages to see how you like what it looks

1:30:57like now. This just tells you what the

1:30:59changes are from prior versions that we

1:31:02had.

1:31:03>> Yep.

1:31:03>> Um

1:31:05I thought you might want to know exactly

1:31:07what I added and what I what I moved

1:31:09around.

1:31:11Um

1:31:13>> okay, going back very to the very first

1:31:16page. Yep. The black letter one.

1:31:19>> Yep.

1:31:21So

1:31:23what I'm seeing is something that to me

1:31:25might be a little bit confusing

1:31:29>> and I'm thinking there's three parts for

1:31:32the applications talk about applications

1:31:35the type of applications

1:31:37process for application

1:31:39and then the fees blocked

1:31:42I would I'm thinking I would rather see

1:31:44those all together and then request

1:31:47forms and the explanation

1:31:50for request forms together separately.

1:31:53>> Okay.

1:31:54>> So, you want me

1:31:56>> Yeah. You want me to move request forms

1:31:58down below the processing of

1:32:00applications to keep all the stuff

1:32:01regarding request forms together. Is

1:32:03that correct?

1:32:05>> Uh the uh request uh request forms put

1:32:10that uh after the section on the where

1:32:14the uh B's are.

1:32:17>> Yep. before the process for request

1:32:19forms.

1:32:20>> Yep. Yep. That's easy enough.

1:32:23>> Yep.

1:32:24>> That's way the information is gathered

1:32:27>> together a little bit better for my

1:32:29liking.

1:32:30>> Mhm. Okay.

1:32:31>> And on on uh the second page on number

1:32:35six,

1:32:37you say applicants are advised to attend

1:32:40the meeting to answer questions.

1:32:42Well, that's kind of a little bit vague

1:32:45to my thinking and

1:32:48saying something like Eddie Wetland's

1:32:50meetings where the application and

1:32:51request will be discussed and

1:32:54potentially voted on.

1:32:57>> What's the number? Which number? It's

1:32:58>> on the second page or number six.

1:33:00>> On number six on the second page.

1:33:03>> So, how would you like that changed?

1:33:08Well, it just says to attend the meeting

1:33:10to answer questions. Well, the the the

1:33:12question is what meeting? And you

1:33:15basically want to ask them to attend the

1:33:18meetings where their application will be

1:33:21discussed and reviewed.

1:33:23>> Okay.

1:33:23>> So, it's just more specific.

1:33:25>> Yep. Got it.

1:33:32>> So, you want them to attend the meetings

1:33:33that where their application is being

1:33:36considered.

1:33:38Yes, that's a better way to say it.

1:33:44>> Okay.

1:33:46>> Yep.

1:33:48>> So, I think that gives more clarity to

1:33:51that and other than that, I didn't

1:33:53really look heavily through the forms

1:33:56themselves. I'm assuming that uh I'll

1:33:59try to get through them and just give

1:34:01them once over for consistency. just

1:34:04adding the re revision date and uh those

1:34:08other two changes I think would be close

1:34:10to ready to go. Um the only other thing

1:34:13I would add to this part is to have a

1:34:17target date when we would start this

1:34:21because there's going to be some website

1:34:26updating that's going to have to happen

1:34:28also.

1:34:28>> Yeah. Well, the website is being

1:34:30overhauled in the next month anyway.

1:34:34Okay.

1:34:35So,

1:34:36>> so the

1:34:38>> the thing that is missing on the

1:34:41application forms, if you go to page

1:34:46uh

1:34:47on the base form, it'll be on your page

1:34:51seven.

1:34:54You see there, I've got it found at web

1:34:56page highlighted with three question

1:34:58marks. I was talking earlier about

1:35:00saying that D does not have on their

1:35:03website a link to the reporting form and

1:35:07I'm not sure now how that's going to

1:35:09operate because it's fully um it's fully

1:35:13electronic and I don't know if the

1:35:17applicant is required can be required to

1:35:20fill it out if it's filled out and and

1:35:23submitted. I I I have to look into that

1:35:25a little further to see how that's going

1:35:26to operate because if we're telling them

1:35:29they got to fill it out, it still has to

1:35:30be cleared by the agent. So, I'm not

1:35:35sure how that's going to operate. I

1:35:38don't know if we can

1:35:40>> believe in our previous discussion that

1:35:42that was going to be a staff task that

1:35:46we dumped on. It shouldn't be then it

1:35:49shouldn't be part of the base form

1:35:50application because it's telling the

1:35:52applicant they got to do it.

1:35:54>> So

1:35:56>> So which which portion Marla? I'm sorry.

1:35:58>> Uh you're take take a look at part three

1:36:01D reporting form.

1:36:03>> Yeah.

1:36:03>> Yeah. right at the top says the D

1:36:05reporting form and it gives the name

1:36:08>> right

1:36:09>> it's maintained at a minimum include the

1:36:11name of the applicant and and this was

1:36:14instructions for the applicant not for

1:36:16the agent so

1:36:18>> right

1:36:18>> if it's going to be coming totally from

1:36:21the agent then it shouldn't even be on

1:36:23the form

1:36:26>> see what I'm saying so I got to find out

1:36:28whether or not this whether the

1:36:30applicant can fill it out and print it

1:36:34and provide a copy of that as an

1:36:36attachment,

1:36:37>> right? And then all that you have to do

1:36:39would be to go back in and and retype

1:36:42it. Do they store it until the agent can

1:36:45sign off on it?

1:36:46>> Yeah.

1:36:47>> I It's unclear to me how that's going to

1:36:49work. So,

1:36:50>> when I when I get a I have It's been a

1:36:53week now since I've been waiting for

1:36:55them to contact me. So, I'm going to

1:36:56probably

1:36:57>> end up contacting them and um

1:37:00>> Okay.

1:37:01>> And we'll see. If not, I will see them

1:37:03at the the an Khakiwick annual meeting

1:37:06because DP's staff is always there. So,

1:37:10>> find out what's going on. So, Bill, I

1:37:12don't think we can consider having these

1:37:14implemented before December 1st.

1:37:17>> Well, I was actually looking for a date

1:37:20farther out than that. Say February 1st.

1:37:23>> Okay. at the earliest.

1:37:25So, we still have time.

1:37:27>> Okay.

1:37:30>> So, unless anybody else has anything to

1:37:32say about this collection of application

1:37:35and request request forms, I think

1:37:38request forms are separate

1:37:42or are they in the back? I forget. Well,

1:37:44we have the the supplemental forms, the

1:37:48and then um did I throw in the

1:37:54Yeah, all of the supplemental forms are

1:37:56there.

1:37:57>> Yeah.

1:37:58>> What we don't have are the request form.

1:37:59There's the one request form that we

1:38:01still don't have in our uh listing,

1:38:06which is extending the permit, which

1:38:08that's easy enough to change the header

1:38:10on it. Dan originally did them for the f

1:38:13for the uh transfer of a permit and for

1:38:17modification of a permit, but this one

1:38:19didn't get done. So, it's it's easy

1:38:22enough if I get the electronic uh copy,

1:38:25I can easily switch out the header so

1:38:27that they all three look the same. You

1:38:30know, request for a permit modification,

1:38:32request for an extension, request for a

1:38:34transfer.

1:38:36>> It's the the text should be over just

1:38:39Yeah.

1:38:40>> Yeah. There there may be I have to

1:38:42double check

1:38:44>> make sure there's nothing else that

1:38:45needs to change.

1:38:46>> There is

1:38:48there is a fee listed there too. So

1:38:51>> that's what I have to check. Uh I also

1:38:53need to figure out whether or not I'm

1:38:55going to go back through the regs and

1:38:56see if we had any fees for those things

1:38:59because then I would have to on the

1:39:00instruction sheet I would have to

1:39:03include the modification the request

1:39:05form a fees schedule for the request

1:39:08forms. So, um,

1:39:12I'll work on this and get you a draft

1:39:15for next meeting

1:39:17with the revisions that you asked for

1:39:19tonight, Bill, as well as answering

1:39:20those question about fees. And

1:39:24>> if you're okay with me just changing the

1:39:26uh

1:39:26>> the uh extension of a permit, I can

1:39:30modify that and provide that to John for

1:39:33the next meeting.

1:39:34>> Go ahead, anybody. That would be fine.

1:39:37Yeah. All right.

1:39:41Okay. We also had a document uh

1:39:47forget what it was called.

1:39:49>> The FAQ uh

1:39:52>> and Stu had uh provided me with a an

1:39:56updated version

1:39:59um that I we arrived uh later this

1:40:02afternoon. So, I'll I'm just sharing it

1:40:04here. We can forward it around to

1:40:05everybody.

1:40:09Um, is it sort of the like the friendly

1:40:12guide?

1:40:14>> Yeah.

1:40:15>> I don't know. So, is there anything here

1:40:17you you want to talk to?

1:40:18>> Um, no. It just it's I think it speaks

1:40:21for itself. It's just really kind of a

1:40:25uh simplified version of

1:40:28of uh topics that people might want

1:40:32information on. they'd be asking and it

1:40:35just introductory kind of level

1:40:39uh

1:40:41the way it addresses some of the things

1:40:43people would be looking for.

1:40:45>> So

1:40:47Stuart, [clears throat] one of the

1:40:48things that I that stood out to me is

1:40:51under item two, you say what counts as a

1:40:53wetland. I think immediately after that

1:40:56should be what counts as a water course

1:41:00and um people don't always understand

1:41:04you know that a water course isn't just

1:41:07a water body.

1:41:09Um so I was originally looking at

1:41:12modifying this around so that there was

1:41:16a question for what what counts as a

1:41:19water course. Okay,

1:41:21>> that's actually Mara, if you want to go

1:41:23back [laughter]

1:41:24>> to the wetlands to to the minutes that

1:41:26you corrected from the special meeting.

1:41:28>> Yeah,

1:41:28>> that was precisely what I had written

1:41:30down and and you changed.

1:41:33>> Well, what constitutes as a water

1:41:34course,

1:41:35>> the difference between a water course

1:41:36and a water body.

1:41:38>> Yeah, but no, I'm not I'm not that's not

1:41:40what I'm saying. He he doesn't tell us

1:41:42what a water course is. And a water

1:41:45course is more than just water bodies,

1:41:49>> right?

1:41:49>> So that's why

1:41:51>> had that reflected.

1:41:52>> Yeah. I I think it needs to be clarified

1:41:54here because some people

1:41:57>> I I'll just give you the background on

1:41:59this. I went through about I don't know

1:42:01how many

1:42:04iterations.

1:42:05Quite a few. And uh so some of it gets

1:42:09lost.

1:42:11Do you want me Do you want me to send

1:42:12you a suggested language for that?

1:42:14>> Sure.

1:42:15>> Okay, I can do that.

1:42:17>> Yep.

1:42:20>> Yep.

1:42:20>> So, what I'm I'm happy to do again

1:42:22Steuart had sent me this this afternoon.

1:42:24I will forward this to the commissioner

1:42:27so you guys can can or all all the

1:42:29agency members so you guys can see what

1:42:31what's going on here.

1:42:33>> Yeah, it's it's

1:42:36easily revised.

1:42:41try to keep it as simple as possible.

1:42:45If you uh talk with Amy Monahan when she

1:42:49uh talked about the economic development

1:42:51newsletter, she was saying, "We got to

1:42:53cut on it in small bits like you're

1:42:56talking to second graders."

1:42:59I'm not sure we have to go that low, but

1:43:03>> uh and then Stuart had the uh

1:43:07example of details.

1:43:10>> Oh, yeah.

1:43:10>> The uh

1:43:12>> on the permitting guide.

1:43:14>> Yeah.

1:43:17You want to look at that? And

1:43:18>> I I I just went through that permitting

1:43:21guide just to it when 2022 I originally

1:43:24did it. So it, you know, it needs

1:43:26tuning. And so I went through and just

1:43:28in the discussions about what we've been

1:43:30doing, I I started with the

1:43:35uh review process and the water inland

1:43:39weather course agency and just changed

1:43:42that little process flow by adding

1:43:46um the final step permit issued by land

1:43:49use office.

1:43:51Um

1:43:53and I on number two, step number two, I

1:43:58put up a blue review area activity

1:44:01identified

1:44:03and it's declaratory ruling. That was

1:44:06just something to clarify that step and

1:44:10I think that's better than it was

1:44:12before.

1:44:14I I like that you know for me this is

1:44:18all as much of an education as this is

1:44:23by doing this I learn a lot so I'm very

1:44:27uh

1:44:29pleased about that.

1:44:31>> So on that uh document we have on the

1:44:34screen you said something about number

1:44:36two of uh declaratory ruling. Oh, if you

1:44:40scroll up,

1:44:42>> uh, this is up all the way, I think.

1:44:47>> Oh, yeah, that's old. That's an old one,

1:44:49but uh,

1:44:52yeah, that there. Well,

1:44:55>> oh, this is 8:26. There's a 9

1:44:58something on there.

1:44:59>> 9:14. I I just I did it yesterday and

1:45:03submitted it. I worked on it yesterday

1:45:05and submitted it this morning.

1:45:09Is there I'm sorry there there's Did I

1:45:11put something else in here that we need

1:45:13to look at? 914.

1:45:14>> That was the 826

1:45:17>> 826

1:45:18>> peritting this. Here we go. This one.

1:45:21>> Yeah, I didn't that that's

1:45:22>> No, that Yeah,

1:45:25>> this is one. This is today's date.

1:45:29>> So, that got posted this morning, right?

1:45:31>> Yeah, that's right.

1:45:32>> All right.

1:45:33>> Okay.

1:45:37We'll look for it.

1:45:38>> Okay. I see you put the declaratory

1:45:40ruling under number two there you're

1:45:42talking about.

1:45:42>> Yes.

1:45:44>> Okay.

1:45:47>> For URA.

1:45:49>> Yeah.

1:45:51>> And then in that discussion we've had

1:45:53previously about you know um

1:45:58who actually issues the permit.

1:46:00I just permit is issued by the land use

1:46:04office. I just added that in.

1:46:08we give approval or denial.

1:46:12>> Yeah.

1:46:15>> Um and then the other thing I sort of

1:46:17played around with if you look on the

1:46:18next page is the uh I just put a

1:46:23again this is just me playing around

1:46:26to do a checklist with a declaratory

1:46:29ruling guide.

1:46:31and

1:46:33uh

1:46:35as a checklist approach.

1:46:38Those are some of the activities

1:46:40that would f fall fall under that scope

1:46:43for us. New structure definitely has to

1:46:47go through zoning, health and building

1:46:50possibly PZNC. But again, this is just a

1:46:53draft. This is me trying to make sense

1:46:56of a

1:46:58a graphic illustration of the process

1:47:06aiming aiming for the second graders.

1:47:12Um, so I don't know if it makes sense to

1:47:15even attempt that. Is that something you

1:47:17guys would be interested in pursuing or

1:47:21you know or just spinning my wheels?

1:47:25>> Well, what these two pages you showed

1:47:27and then you have the uh things that

1:47:30this sheet on the plan views and section

1:47:32views. Um that would be a

1:47:36valuable

1:47:38addition.

1:47:39>> I like I like that. And and I do put a

1:47:41disclaimer in there. This is for

1:47:43reference only and not for construction.

1:47:47But it when we tell people, well, we

1:47:50want a section drawing, we can just

1:47:51point to it. You know, that's that

1:47:55little section detail. And uh for a

1:47:58lakeside, we run into this all the time.

1:48:01Um,

1:48:03>> yeah.

1:48:04>> And and also just in plan views, what

1:48:08we're looking for, you know, our

1:48:12relationships on the on the plan that

1:48:15that tell us, you know,

1:48:18where things are and and we've got to

1:48:19have that north arrow and people just

1:48:22don't get that.

1:48:24So, uh, there may be an easier way to to

1:48:28graphically demonstrate this, but this

1:48:30is just a start.

1:48:33Well, it's we got the locus

1:48:35>> be a complicated process. So,

1:48:37>> yeah,

1:48:39>> I don't know how easy it is to make

1:48:42something that's

1:48:44can be complicated. You know, some

1:48:47people are not even computer literate.

1:48:49So, just being able to, you know, do

1:48:52this uh you know, you go to some place

1:48:54like I did this afternoon, they don't

1:48:56know how to make change. they're not

1:48:57going to be able to uh understand

1:49:00potentially what's required for

1:49:03something like this. So, they might need

1:49:04some help and guidance anyways,

1:49:06>> right?

1:49:07>> But for people who are more informed,

1:49:10this is a good basis for them to go by.

1:49:15It could help

1:49:17some people anyway. That would be good.

1:49:20it what I uh my objective is that it it

1:49:24helps people on both sides of the desk.

1:49:26In the land use office, people come in

1:49:29already prepared and that way it makes

1:49:34uh

1:49:35John's and Tracy's life a little bit

1:49:37smoother. Um

1:49:42>> this was put

1:49:44>> Yes. put together with the uh put

1:49:47together with the uh this and the

1:49:49previous pages put together with the

1:49:52friendly uh questions there. Uh

1:49:55>> yeah,

1:49:56>> friendly guide that uh that would be a

1:49:57good resource.

1:50:00So we could look at doing that.

1:50:04>> So I just yeah um uh any comments or

1:50:08anything that you see just let me know

1:50:11and we can tune it up.

1:50:14You know what's something that's really

1:50:16weird is when you look at what the file

1:50:19name is here,

1:50:21permitting guide 2026 CDR and but then

1:50:25when you look at the URL for the name of

1:50:28the file,

1:50:29what I was having problems with is both

1:50:32of those documents have the same file

1:50:36name, permitting guide 2026, but the URL

1:50:39shows two different files, PDF files

1:50:42That's really weird.

1:50:45>> I don't know why I did that.

1:50:47>> Uh maybe it's just a different iteration

1:50:50I posted.

1:50:52>> It's the file name. So you didn't change

1:50:54the file name when you did a different

1:50:56iteration or at least it looks like it.

1:50:58What CDR extension? I've never seen like

1:51:01that.

1:51:02>> The software.

1:51:04>> Okay. Okay.

1:51:06>> But however, it got posted and got saved

1:51:08>> draw. Yeah.

1:51:10>> Yeah. That was weird. All right.

1:51:13I got it figured out now. I was

1:51:15confused. Okay.

1:51:16>> I'm sorry.

1:51:16>> That's okay.

1:51:20>> Any other administrative business at

1:51:22this point?

1:51:24>> Not on my end, Mr.

1:51:26>> Okay. Um,

1:51:28>> what should I do? What would you like me

1:51:31to do? Would you have me put it on hold

1:51:32or do any just wait for more feedback?

1:51:37Uh if you could combine the uh the

1:51:40friendly guide with the uh the pages of

1:51:44cross-section.

1:51:46>> Okay.

1:51:46>> And the the page before that with the

1:51:49>> the process line there

1:51:51>> process uh what you call it if that can

1:51:54get combined somehow.

1:51:56>> I would like do some comments. I got a

1:51:59lot of comments on that friendly guide

1:52:01>> because we got that was handed out at

1:52:03special meeting.

1:52:04>> Yeah.

1:52:05>> Yeah. and I started working on it but I

1:52:07I didn't finish it but I got a lot of

1:52:08suggested comments so I can give you a

1:52:10redline version

1:52:11>> good

1:52:12>> of that

1:52:13>> would be great

1:52:14>> all right

1:52:15>> thank you

1:52:19>> okay so we'll move on to number nine

1:52:21citizens comments any citizens on our

1:52:25line who would like to offer comments at

1:52:27this point

1:52:34hearing nothing then I I entertain a

1:52:35motion to adjourn.

1:52:38>> Do Pasley here. I make a motion that we

1:52:41adjourn our monthly meeting.

1:52:47>> I'll second that.

1:52:50>> Okay. Motion made by Stuart Peasley,

1:52:53second by Kathy Bareric to adjourn. Uh

1:52:56all those in favor signify by saying I.

1:52:58>> I.

1:53:00>> I. Uh. The motion passes unanimously.

1:53:04Thank you everyone.

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