2026-11-04 - Committee of the Whole Special Meeting

00:00Today is Wednesday, November 4th, 2026.

00:03The time is 3:44. I apologize for the

00:06late start. We do have several items

00:10this afternoon that we'd like to bring

00:12forward for discussion and have an

00:14opportunity for the council um

00:17to uh um

00:19have this opportunity to um listen and

00:22um

00:23provide get other information about

00:25these particular items. First item up,

00:27I'd like to ask for a motion and a

00:28second for approval of the minutes of

00:31September 30th, 2026. Councilors have

00:34received a copy of these by email.

00:36Hopefully, you had an opportunity to

00:38review them. If so, we could get a

00:39motion and a second for approval.

00:41>> So moved.

00:43>> All those in favor, please say I.

00:45>> I.

00:45>> All right, thank you. The minutes of the

00:47CLW from

00:48September 30th have been approved. We do

00:51have three items this afternoon for

00:53discussion before the Committee of the

00:55Whole. The first is a review of the

00:57sustainability plan, and we have the

01:00director of the mayor's office of

01:01resilience and sustainability. Good

01:04afternoon, Thomas. Thank you.

01:06>> Hey, good afternoon. Thank you so much.

01:08Um my name is Thomas Yeager. I serve as

01:10the director for the mayor's office of

01:12resilience and sustainability.

01:14Are we going to have the presentation?

01:17>> Yes, they'll probably load that in the

01:18back for you.

01:19>> Um while we wait for the Awesome,

01:21perfect. Thank you. Um

01:22Um just to kick off uh on the agenda, I

01:24know it says uh

01:26um a resolution reviewing the um

01:29sustainability plan for the city of

01:30Birmingham. Um it is our desire um city

01:34staff to um

01:36um

01:37ask for this body for a favorable

01:39recommendation to full council for both

01:41the adoption [snorts] of the

01:42sustainability plan and a greenhouse gas

01:45reduction goal of net zero by 2050. I'll

01:49explain a little bit more about that in

01:51just a second. Um

01:54I know um I believe all of you have seen

01:55a version of this presentation before,

01:57so I'll go through it fairly quickly um

02:00and answer any questions you may have at

02:01the end.

02:03So, just to refresh, sustainability

02:05plans,

02:06many cities across the United States

02:08have have developed and adopted

02:10sustainability plans and greenhouse gas

02:12reduction goals.

02:13Sustainability plans really are efforts

02:16by cities to understand the challenges,

02:19the environmental

02:22and sustainability related challenges

02:24that they face now and in the future,

02:27and to plan proactively to address those

02:29issues,

02:30those issues that may exist now or in

02:33the future. For a little background,

02:36at the beginning of last year, we really

02:38kicked off this effort. We started by

02:41doing two things.

02:43One, starting to ask the public what

02:46they wanted to see in an effort like

02:48this. What were the things that were

02:50impacting them? Be it stormwater, be it

02:53urban heat, be it proximity to heavy

02:57industry, be it, you know, high energy

03:00bills.

03:02And really listening to to what was

03:04happening

03:06and what the public wanted to see.

03:07Second, we convened a stakeholder or a

03:10sustainability advisory committee that

03:12met four times throughout the course of

03:15the plan.

03:17They were made up of external and

03:20internal

03:22partners that really helped guide the

03:25development of the plan. We're

03:27incredibly grateful to them.

03:29Later last year, beginning of this year,

03:32we really started to put pen to paper to

03:34write out the action items that we

03:36wanted to see in this plan. We ended up

03:38with 83 of those. They're in your

03:41packet, you should see a um

03:44a like an a spreadsheet of those 83

03:46action items.

03:48I know it's a lot, but I appreciate

03:50y'all's willingness to

03:52to review those. Um

03:54And

03:56yeah, so we

03:58Um sir, could we go back one slide?

04:01Thank you.

04:02So, throughout the course of the plan,

04:05um we had a series of round tables. We

04:07did a number of informational interviews

04:09with stakeholders and subject matter

04:11experts. We convened the advisory

04:14committee.

04:15We also did public surveys.

04:19We actually I believe we had over 300

04:21respondents. So, I personally believe we

04:23did a great job

04:25really capturing what the public wanted

04:27to see from an effort like this and

04:29synthesizing it into the action items of

04:31this plan.

04:32Next slide, please.

04:34So, again, 83 action items. We decided

04:37to try to

04:39group those into six

04:41buckets or

04:43key strategy themes. Those are live,

04:46work, thrive, grow, move, and reclaim.

04:49In your packet again, you have that

04:50spreadsheet. You can see all those

04:52action items split out across those six

04:56areas.

04:58Next slide, please.

05:01And speaking of those action items, um

05:04we

05:05did a number of things

05:07to ensure that this plan was very

05:09implementable and that we held ourselves

05:11accountable to implement it. I know

05:13Councillor Quinn in the past, um

05:16you

05:17had

05:18asked us how we were going to ensure

05:20that this wasn't a plan that just sat on

05:21a shelf.

05:23We did that in a number of ways. First,

05:25um

05:25we opted not to do just one long

05:28300-page PDF document for this plan. Um

05:32Um it lives on the city's website. It's

05:35a interactable, navigable

05:38um environment on the city's website

05:39instead of a

05:41uh you know, a long PDF document. Um

05:45in addition to that, we developed a

05:47climate pollution dashboard where we

05:50measured all the greenhouse gas

05:51emissions in the city of Birmingham.

05:54We believe this is the first time a city

05:55in Alabama has ever done this. We're

05:57very proud of that effort. Um

06:00it allows us to be data-driven and

06:02understand where our emissions are

06:04coming from and where we can spend the

06:06most time to reduce those.

06:08Um additionally, this is just for some

06:11context. There was a essentially a

06:13regional version of this plan uh done

06:15with an EPA grant called the Central

06:17Alabama Climate Action Plan. There's

06:19links to it on the website. It's just

06:21worth knowing that there's a regional

06:24essentially version of this plan that

06:25exists. And finally, we did a

06:27vulnerability assessment that exists on

06:29the site um where we geographically

06:32mapped um where we see our uh greatest

06:36threats um specifically uh like natural

06:39uh threats and um

06:42and vulnerabilities in Birmingham. So,

06:45um it allows us to understand where

06:47we may need to spend more time, you

06:49know, within the city geographically

06:51focused on something like urban heat or

06:53even wildfire um threat. So, um

06:57all these things um allow us to hold

07:00ourselves accountable, tools that will

07:02allow us to implement this plan.

07:04Additionally, on the website, I'll

07:05mention um we um did a section called

07:08accountability for each of the six

07:11uh areas

07:12um where we have a series of metrics

07:15that we want to that we will regularly

07:17update to demonstrate to the public that

07:21we are making progress on those goals.

07:23Um so, again, that lives on the website.

07:26Uh next slide, please.

07:29Um and as I mentioned, the greenhouse

07:30gas reduction goal that we would like to

07:32um for you to consider today as well. Um

07:35as I mentioned, we um developed uh a

07:39greenhouse gas uh inventory where we

07:42basically compiled all of the greenhouse

07:45gas emissions that occurred in the city

07:47of Birmingham. Again, green house house

07:49gases are typically man-made gases that

07:54um heat up our environment and lead to

07:56what we refer to as climate change.

07:59Um

08:00uh we developed a inventory of that. Um

08:03we determined that uh as an entire city,

08:07uh we emit about 5.1 million metric tons

08:10of greenhouse gases.

08:12That comes to about 26 tons per person.

08:16Um

08:18and we also developed an inventory of

08:23the city

08:24government activities

08:26and determined that the city government

08:28itself emits about 470,000

08:32metric tons of greenhouse gases. Almost

08:35all of that is from landfills and street

08:37paving. Asphalt releases a lot of

08:40greenhouse gases. Um so, about 50,000 of

08:43that would remain for, you know,

08:45heating and cooling our buildings, staff

08:47driving around, that type of thing.

08:50Um

08:51what should our goal be? Um climate

08:53scientists all generally agree that um

08:562050

08:58um net zero is the critical milestone

09:00that we need to hit. Um most of them

09:03also agree that uh

09:05a substantial decrease by 2030 is is

09:09beneficial. However, that 2050 is

09:11really, I think, our best goal

09:14at this point um to try and get to net

09:16zero. Net zero being you add up all the

09:19emissions that are happening. You

09:21subtract out all the what we call carbon

09:24sequestration,

09:25which is like trees breathing in that

09:27those greenhouse gases.

09:30We need We ideally need to get to net

09:32zero by 2050.

09:34And what would this mean for the city?

09:35What would it mean if the council

09:36adopted a greenhouse gas reduction goal?

09:39It would mean that in

09:41in city activities that we consider the

09:44impacts of our activities um

09:47our greenhouse gas impacts of

09:49activities. So, for instance, if we were

09:51looking at buying a vehicle

09:53and there was a an appropriate electric

09:56vehicle

09:57um option,

09:59because

10:00that vehicle would emit fewer greenhouse

10:02gases,

10:03we would weight that electric vehicle

10:07when making that decision. So, when we

10:10would do the the business of the city,

10:12we would consider the greenhouse gas

10:14impacts of our activities when we do

10:16those activities.

10:17Uh next slide, please.

10:20And so, this is just a summary of where

10:21we've been and where we are now and

10:23where we're going. So, earlier this

10:25year, uh we received a unanimous

10:27favorable

10:29uh adoption of this plan from the city

10:32of Birmingham's Planning Commission.

10:34Um we then um

10:36presented this plan to uh the Community

10:38Development uh Committee of this body

10:42and received a unanimous favorable uh

10:44recommendation

10:46uh in in that meeting as well.

10:49Um

10:49it is our desire today um to hopefully

10:52um

10:53receive a favorable um recommendation

10:55for both

10:56adoption of the sustainability plan and

10:58a greenhouse gas reduction goal um for

11:01full council. Um at which point we would

11:03then um

11:05start working as hard as we can to

11:07implement

11:08all these great things um

11:10from the plan, many of which are already

11:13underway in one form or another.

11:15Uh and with that, I am happy to take

11:18answer any questions that you may have.

11:20>> Well, first let me start by thanking

11:22you. Um I know just for benefit of the

11:24public, I'd like for them to know this

11:26is not our first time hearing about this

11:28and uh having an opportunity to talk

11:30with you and your staff. And um so, I

11:33thank you for the work that you all have

11:35done for this as well as bringing the

11:37the council up to date and keeping us

11:39informed so that we would be able to

11:42have a full view of what this plan looks

11:44like. Um any questions from the

11:47councilors regarding the plan?

11:49Yes, Councilor Gardner.

11:52>> Yes. Thank you, Madam President. I do

11:55have a question regarding uh

11:57collaboration.

11:59Um what other entities are collaborating

12:01with us on this plan? Uh so, when you

12:03think economic development

12:05organizations, when you think about

12:07other governmental entities, has there

12:09been a collaboration with us on this

12:11plan to make sure that we're all aligned

12:14and on the same page.

12:15>> Absolutely. So, um internally we met

12:18with

12:19as far as I know every city department

12:21um and uh both listened to their goals

12:26and um

12:27the things that they would need um to

12:31in their involvement in this plan and

12:33these sustainability efforts. Um

12:35um

12:37as far as we know every action item in

12:38this plan is um aligned with uh

12:42department goals and uh capacity as

12:45well. Um

12:46Additionally, I mentioned that uh

12:48advisory committee that was 32 members,

12:50most of them external. Um

12:53we um

12:54we developed great working relationships

12:57with um many, you know,

12:59um

13:00many of your traditional what the groups

13:02you would think of when you think of

13:04like environmental advocacy. But

13:06additionally, you know, UAB um the

13:08health department um

13:10um

13:12we um had some participation from um

13:16the um

13:17Chamber of Commerce, I believe. Um and

13:20um

13:21yeah. Um

13:23I think we have good alignment um

13:26internally and externally with um many

13:28partners. Um

13:30I

13:31I I believe that all of this, including

13:33the things that are kind of more

13:35externally focused, are are very

13:36implementable. Some of them are lofty

13:39and some of them would be ex- expensive.

13:41However, some of them would be, you

13:43know,

13:44budget neutral or even save us money.

13:46>> Okay. Has there been any engagement with

13:48the county, like Jefferson County

13:50Department of Health, and then

13:52uh Jefferson County as an entity?

13:53>> Sure. Um so, specifically I mentioned

13:55that regional plan, the regional version

13:57of this plan earlier. Um we did pretty

14:00extensive engagement with the count with

14:03It's actually a seven-county area that

14:05for that, but um

14:07we um we involved all seven counties of

14:10that

14:10uh area, including Jefferson County, in

14:12that effort.

14:14Absolutely.

14:16>> Thank you, Dr. Copeland.

14:18>> Just follow up on Counselor Gunn's

14:20question and be more specific. Was

14:22Alabama Power part of the advisory

14:24group?

14:25>> Um

14:26we engaged with them as part of both the

14:30regional plan and um

14:33we have had some conversations with them

14:36about some areas that we could work

14:38together to implement some of these

14:39action items.

14:41>> Okay.

14:42Um

14:44Just to be clear, you know, they have

14:46they they are responsible for the

14:48majority of greenhouse gas gas emissions

14:52in this part of the United States, much

14:54less Jefferson County. So, um

14:57there we are, you know, they're

15:00they have responsibility for

15:04most of the problem, so they should have

15:06responsibility for most of the solution.

15:10That being said, um

15:12as far as city activities are concerned,

15:16our as I understand it, our landfill is

15:19the

15:20next our landfills, plural,

15:23are the next uh

15:25highest source of greenhouse gas

15:27emissions.

15:29In the past, we have had um methane gas

15:33collection

15:35at our at our landfills,

15:38uh

15:39if I have my facts right.

15:41Um so, that's part of the

15:45plan here.

15:46Um

15:48how do we inten- intend to implement uh

15:52that

15:53that

15:54greenhouse gas collection at our

15:56landfills?

15:56>> absolutely. Yeah.

15:59>> Good evening, Council.

16:00>> Good evening.

16:00>> Hey. Uh my name is Josh Yates, and I

16:02serve as the interim Chief of Public

16:04Infrastructure. Um I uh in in regard to

16:07the methane gas collection, we have put

16:10out a request for proposals. We've

16:12received proposals back. We've

16:14interviewed the uh candidates that

16:16submitted proposals, and we're walking

16:18down that process right now to select a

16:20company that could potentially collect

16:22the methane gas, and then the city would

16:25collect royalties off of that.

16:28>> Thank you.

16:29>> Sir.

16:29>> Thank you.

16:31Any other questions?

16:33Councilor Williams.

16:35>> Thank you. Um my question is the comment

16:38that you made about

16:40um

16:41that that if this were passed, and I'm

16:44not sure why we need but if this were

16:46passed, um

16:48there would be consideration

16:51um

16:52given to and I don't know if there was

16:54like if there's scoring or something

16:56like that, but

16:57you know, and

17:01I

17:02my concern is or maybe I'm

17:06misunderstanding

17:07the statement, but

17:10is there a scenario in which the city

17:12would spend more money to purchase

17:15an electric vehicle or spend more money

17:17to do something rather than a

17:19traditional

17:21whatever the thing is, whether it's a

17:23vehicle or something else at the

17:25taxpayer's expense to get a lower

17:27greenhouse emission?

17:30>> So

17:31>> Yes, sir.

17:32>> Yes, thank you for your presentation.

17:33So, I'll take it to you with with Mr.

17:35Youles. So, we have already been doing

17:37that. Most of our

17:39um parking enforcement cars are already

17:41EVs. A lot of the police department

17:43other vehicles within B-dot and

17:46BPD and I think public works may have

17:49hybrids. So, we're we're already

17:52I want to say ahead of the game, but we

17:53are trying to get to that that point

17:55where we're trying to reduce our

17:56emissions. So, I don't know if you want

17:58to add any more to that.

17:59>> Yeah, I I think electric vehicles are

18:01the best example of that. We do spend

18:04slightly more to procure a vehicle that

18:06is one um

18:09it emitting fewer emissions, and two, in

18:12the long run is cheaper to maintain.

18:15>> And we we we are maintaining to

18:17implement more charging stations that

18:20will be located on our properties and in

18:22our parking decks.

18:24>> Okay, so

18:26at what point, you know,

18:28knowing [clears throat] that the that

18:29like, you know, having some electric

18:32vehicles worth versus gas vehicles is a

18:34very is a drop in the bucket compared to

18:36what like Dr. Al Quinn just said, you

18:39know, at what point are we charging the

18:40taxpayer for this when there's not a

18:43noticeable return because I would rather

18:46have more streets paved in my district?

18:49>> Sure, understood. Um

18:52all I can say is that um

18:54the city's going to continue to be

18:56responsible for the way it spends tax

18:59dollars. We're not going to go buy

19:01million dollar cars because they're

19:03better for the environment. We'll

19:05continue to balance, you know,

19:08the cost of of procurement and the cost

19:11of business with

19:12um

19:14with greenhouse gas emissions.

19:15>> So, do you have any data on that?

19:18>> Um data per

19:20>> As as to what we're spending on electric

19:23or hybrid versus regular vehicle.

19:24>> Councilor, we we can probably get that.

19:27Um like I said, we're trying to move

19:28into that anyway, but of course the

19:30things with the economy, especially the

19:32war in Iran has raised up our diesel

19:34prices and our our gasoline prices. So,

19:37I don't know that we'll yield a a

19:38benefit at this point, but I think we've

19:40in our best interest of what we've been

19:42trying to do is be more economically

19:44friendly when it comes to our fleet.

19:47But we'll we'll work on getting some

19:48type of data to you.

19:49>> Yeah, thank you.

19:50>> Thank you.

19:51>> Thank you. Any other questions?

19:54Yes, counselor.

19:56>> Uh yes, I do I'm looking at the action

19:59plan

20:00items. I do

20:02like how detailed that is. I know that

20:04was something we requested last time. Uh

20:07remind me, how

20:09what's the time span for this

20:11sustainability plan? Is it 20 years?

20:13This

20:13>> Sure, I think that's a good um

20:16I think that's a good time frame. Um

20:17some of the things in this plan are very

20:21low hanging fruit, very achievable.

20:24Um for instance, I know uh um you should

20:26have a document um I know I sent you all

20:29a lot, but um a document called top 10

20:32priority items. Um

20:33there are

20:34um in there you can see 10 items that

20:36are already happening. For instance,

20:38tracking uh energy usage across city

20:41facilities. We're um

20:43coming right up to the finish line of

20:45having that online. Um so, you know,

20:48some of these things are either about to

20:51be done or will be done in the next year

20:54or two. Some of these things are are

20:56very lofty, um potentially very

20:58expensive, as well.

21:00Um and may as as um

21:03Counselor Quinn mentioned, um

21:05uh involve external partners that we

21:07don't have jurisdiction over. So, um

21:10I think um a 20-year timeline is is a

21:13good way to think about it, absolutely.

21:15>> Okay. Do we um and then I'm blanking

21:18on the elected boards

21:21that

21:23that

21:24sets our utility rates.

21:25>> Public Service

21:26>> Yeah. Yeah. Are we Are Do we have plans

21:29to kind of talk with them as well

21:31because they're another piece to the

21:33um utility rates in addition to Alabama

21:36Power.

21:37>> Sure. Um I think I think that's a great

21:39idea. Um

21:40I know many cities across the Southeast

21:43um

21:44on a staff level, there's um stronger

21:46like step city staff um

21:49PSC staff engagement. For instance, City

21:51of Atlanta, they um

21:53they collaborate with their the the City

21:56of Atlanta staff collaborate with their

21:58PSC staff um quite regularly.

22:01>> Okay.

22:02Okay. Thank you.

22:04>> Good question.

22:05>> Thank you.

22:06Any other questions? We want to thank

22:09you for presenting this to us, and

22:11counselors, at this time

22:12uh if we are ready, we can entertain a

22:15motion and a second to move forward with

22:18the Birmingham Sustainability Plan, and

22:21also the gas house reduction

22:26greenhouse

22:28Wait a minute. I wrote it down. I want

22:29to say it correctly.

22:31The greenhouse gas Here we go.

22:35The greenhouse

22:37gas reduction goal

22:39for 2050.

22:41So, there's a motion and a second on

22:42both items.

22:44All those in favor, please say I.

22:47Oh, thank you. We appreciate this. We'll

22:49pass this on to the agenda for

22:51consideration.

22:58Oh, no, that

23:00We're not out. No.

23:02Thank you. Yes, right. That's right. You

23:05scared me. I'm like, "What did I do?

23:06What did I do?" Okay. Thank you very

23:08much. Next item on our agenda

23:12had me going here now.

23:16is a review of the public camping

23:19ordinance. And at this time, we'll have

23:21Ms. Alana Milton, director of Land House

23:23Strategies, and city attorney Julie

23:26Bernard

23:27to give us a review of the ordinance.

23:31Good afternoon, ladies.

23:32>> Afternoon.

23:37I'm Alana Milton, and I serve as

23:38director of Land House Strategies for

23:40the city of Birmingham.

23:42And um

23:46And attorney Julie Bernard, we are here

23:48again to discuss the um public camping

23:52ordinance. I don't know if the slides

23:54are

23:56up or you guys have copies of the

23:58presentation.

24:00>> Don't have

24:02paper copies.

24:04>> Perfect. So, a couple things um I'm

24:07sorry. I don't have it in my pack.

24:09>> You have that one there?

24:11You have that one there?

24:12They're not up.

24:17No, we don't have a copy of the

24:18ordinance.

24:24I know they have the presentation as

24:26well. We don't have a copy of the

24:27Do you have a copy of it, Eloise?

24:44The minute we sure we have everybody

24:45prepared.

24:53Okay.

24:56Thank you.

24:57All right.

24:58Do you all have this one? Thank you.

25:00All right.

25:03All right.

25:05And do we have our presentation loaded?

25:11There we go.

25:15Thank you, Eloise.

25:18Okay.

25:19Um so, a couple of things. Nothing has

25:21changed about the last uh about the

25:24ordinance really that since we were here

25:26before, but just a further explanation.

25:29And for clarification, we noticed in a

25:31couple places we referred to the

25:33ordinance as something different a

25:34couple times. So, it this is

25:37the public camping ordinance. And so,

25:40we're calling that um

25:42because in Birmingham, camping is not

25:44allowed in our public spaces. We're very

25:46aware that some of our surrounding

25:47cities do allow camping, but the only

25:49way that you can have a tent in our

25:52parks is park board approval and they're

25:53not for camping.

25:55Um

25:56just a refresher on why we're bringing

25:57this ordinance. Um we want to

26:00adjust the ongoing public health and

26:03public safety concerns of folks um

26:05living in our parks and public spaces.

26:08Um but also, we want to give dignity to

26:10the people

26:11um who are living in these public

26:13spaces.

26:14Um

26:15the truth is our parks and our sidewalks

26:18are not adequate places for people to

26:20live. So, in addition to um reclaiming

26:24these spaces so that everyone can feel

26:26safe and welcome in these spaces, we

26:28also want to begin provide we're working

26:30previously to find

26:33um

26:33shelter and housing opportunities for

26:35these folks. So, why this matters,

26:39again, our our public spaces should be

26:41shared spaces for all, open for all

26:43residents, both the housed and unhoused,

26:46during

26:47open hours. And so, enforcement will

26:50look like, particularly in the parks,

26:51closing the parks

26:53when the parks close for everyone so

26:55that we don't begin targeting anyone. We

26:58also want hope to hope this ordinance

27:01help us target health and sanitation

27:04needs.

27:05And without public restrooms, people do

27:08use the restroom outside, unfortunately,

27:10and that causing growing numbers of

27:12concerns.

27:13Also, without access to water sources,

27:18it also creates sanitation concerns. And

27:21then public safety.

27:23There are the

27:24the thoughts of drug use and that kind

27:26of thing, but also blocked sidewalks,

27:28places where people who need ADA

27:31accessible pathways. We want to make

27:33sure that we're able to clear those

27:34spaces. And then under our bridges and

27:37underpasses,

27:38as the weather begins to get cooler, we

27:40tend to see more fires. And we don't

27:42want to see increased damage to our

27:44public infrastructures.

27:46And again, the same, we want to protect

27:49these spaces. We've been working with

27:50the fire department to

27:53kind of catalog where we've seen some of

27:56these challenges. And we want to make

27:57sure that we're working with it the the

27:59necessary partners to keep to protect

28:02those spaces.

28:05Attorney Bernard, you want to talk about

28:06what this

28:07ordinance prohibits?

28:10>> Yes, good afternoon.

28:12So, in the ordinance,

28:14we define

28:16well, there's several definitions. And

28:18actually, I handed Ms. Gray Lewis a

28:21page. We did I did after

28:24you know, we were going you know,

28:25everybody's looked at this 100 times. I

28:27found a typo.

28:29And and there were a couple of things

28:30that we thought might

28:33bring some clarity. So, we did

28:35I just kind of wanted to point this out.

28:36We added an S to tents in the definition

28:40of encampment. And I added a definition

28:42for mayor that recognizes that it's the

28:44whole team. It's not just the mayor

28:46doing all this. It's the mayor acting

28:49through his administrative team. And

28:52now that Ms. Melton mentioned about

28:55you know, there may be places that

28:56camping may be allowed. We had had in

28:58here unless authorized by the park and

29:00recreation board, but recognizing

29:03that we define public property to

29:05include other state and government owned

29:08property. Could be county, you know,

29:09property, county controlled property. Um

29:13that if there were some park

29:15that allowed camping, then you know, we

29:18didn't want to have to come back and

29:20deal with that. So, it it adds other

29:22authorized public entity. I just kind of

29:24wanted to hit those real quick to let

29:25you know those are just changes from the

29:27draft that you have in your hand just to

29:29clarify that. But within those

29:31definitions,

29:33you know, we talk about the definition

29:34of camp um which is

29:38um

29:40you know, basically that's occupying an

29:42area

29:43to establish or maintain a permanent or

29:45temporary place to live or to occupy an

29:47area for 24 hours or more

29:50or an encampment which where an

29:52individual or individuals have erected

29:54one or more tents or structures or

29:56placed personal items on the property

29:59for 24 hours or more. Um

30:02the

30:03So, that's you know, somebody's

30:05intending to stay there as a place to

30:08live. So, those definitions are there.

30:10So, then we we established what unlawful

30:13camping is. I mean, that that's

30:16basically unless you're authorized by

30:18ordinance or rules issued by the park

30:20board or some other authorized public

30:22entity, it's unlawful to camp or

30:25maintain an encampment in any publicly

30:28owned area. Um that includes streets,

30:30sidewalks, etc.

30:32Um and it's unlawful to refuse to remove

30:35the encampment from the public land

30:37after receiving notice instructing them

30:39to

30:41remove the encampment. So, um

30:45those things are highlighted under the

30:48That's, you know, what section D

30:50provides.

30:52Um you know, the moving back in after

30:54you've already been cleared out. You

30:55know, those are the things that are

30:57prohibited. It also prohibits just

30:59storing your your personal property

31:03um on

31:05on the public land

31:08uh because you just, you know,

31:11we can't just have junk and stuff stored

31:14on public land.

31:16So, um

31:18those are the things that are

31:19prohibited. Um

31:21again, the exception is if there's

31:22something

31:24that either the council, the park board,

31:26or some other public entity has decided

31:28that there is a place that's appropriate

31:30for some sort of camping activity and

31:32has allowed it subject to a permit or,

31:35you know, paying a fee or whatever.

31:38So, what's our next?

31:44Going the other way.

31:49>> So,

31:51we will this ordinance essentially has

31:53three parts. The things that we will be

31:55prohibited as Attorney Bernard has

31:56mentioned, camping encampments on public

31:58owned space, streets, sidewalks, and

32:00right-of-ways, um parks, any open space,

32:02and refusing or repeating um ref

32:06after notice is that the camping is

32:08unlawful. We will respond. We have three

32:11levels of response. That's 2 hours for

32:13immediate um action. That's in the case

32:16of um

32:17another city event, the space has been

32:20reserved, that kind of thing. If there's

32:21been proof of um any kind of illegal

32:23activity, the city would be authorized

32:25to act immediately.

32:27Um there is

32:28um

32:29if there is the second tier allows us to

32:32get 24-hour notice,

32:34um and then the third tier is usually

32:39the calls that we get from you guys

32:41that's encampment but there's not

32:43necessarily legal activity and or

32:46um for the public in general we get

32:48these calls um there's no obstruction

32:51obstruction of of um

32:54of the sidewalk or anything like that.

32:55We have up to 48 hours in any situation.

32:58We will use the same standard operating

33:00procedures. We will serve notice. Um we

33:04will go out to the encampments with

33:06outreach. We have dedicated officers now

33:09that are responding to those

33:10experiencing homelessness and or severe

33:12mental illness. Um sometimes they go out

33:14with the heart team. Sometimes they go

33:16out alone.

33:17Um

33:19they've been really successful in

33:20getting people to move to shelter.

33:23Um the teams working together have have

33:25been um very good. So what this

33:27ordinance also says that we will have

33:29storage for them. And so once COASES

33:32comes online later this fall, we talked

33:34about that before, we will be able to

33:36offer um storage for people's things. So

33:39we have already started doing the same

33:41thing every time. So we go out to an

33:44encampment when called.

33:45I'll use this situation with 48-hour

33:47notice. We'll let people know that we're

33:49coming to clean. We have the

33:50conversations with them about separating

33:52your trash from your treasure. We

33:54currently do provide trash bags.

33:57Um very soon we will have trash bags and

34:00vital document holders. What the

34:01criticism that we've gotten is

34:04our providers work very hard to help

34:06people get their IDs and their vital

34:08documents and we clean up an encampment

34:10and we throw those things away and we

34:11pay for them again. So what we've done

34:14is ordered um

34:15we have bags that we'll give folks each

34:18time we clean an encampment and ask

34:19them, "Hey, let's stop everything we're

34:21doing right now and find Where's your

34:23ID? Where's your birth certificate?"

34:24Because without those things you cannot

34:26go into housing, right? Um

34:29we will take that onus. We won't take

34:31those documents though. We will give

34:33them something that is pretty

34:34tamper-proof um to keep those things in

34:37and then we allow them to say, "These

34:39are the things that I want to take.

34:40These are the things that I will leave

34:42Um

34:43and ask the city to come along and

34:44clear. We also we tell ask our officers

34:48as well as the heart team to get people

34:50to the two-bag rule. Every shelter for

34:52the most part says no more than two

34:54bags. So,

34:56if you're serious about going into

34:58shelter, you need to get your things

34:59back two bags. So, all those things are

35:01happening every time that we go out.

35:03They can choose to store them at the

35:05Oasis if they want to if they want to

35:07carry them, that's fine as well.

35:09Um we've talked a little bit about the

35:10the priority tiers. Um

35:16>> On the priorities,

35:17I did just want to

35:19point out on page four of the ordinance

35:21draft that you have and this was a

35:23strategy we've seen used in some other

35:24cities where you can prioritize

35:28how you give the notice and those are

35:31set out,

35:32you know, which are you know, basically

35:34priority one that's mentioned with the

35:36two hours. That's like it's interfering

35:38with an event or something that's set up

35:40and somebody can't get in to set up

35:42their event or there's some sort of

35:44danger. Priority two are where we have

35:47is where there's critical

35:48infrastructure. Critical infrastructure

35:50is defined in the draft. And a lot of

35:53that are public spaces, schools, you

35:55know, people are you know, camping right

35:57at a school or something like that. Um

36:00and then the third one are just those

36:02other things that there's less urgency

36:04to and we, you know, can give, you know,

36:06greater notice for that.

36:11>> Thank you.

36:16And just walking through a little bit

36:17about enforcement from beginning to end.

36:21When we receive notice of an encampment,

36:23we'll assess whether it's priority one,

36:25two, or three. That also will determine

36:27who goes out. So, if it's a priority

36:29one, that will likely be our police

36:31officers. It wouldn't be allowed the

36:34time for the outreach team per se to

36:36come, but again, our officers the

36:38officers that respond are

36:39trauma-informed and trained to deal with

36:41this pop- this specific population. If

36:44we have more time if they're priority

36:46two or three, we'll have a a longer

36:48leeway for a more significant outreach

36:50and leaning. Um I failed to mention too,

36:52we also have created we borrowed this

36:54from Huntsville um these never tear

36:56cards. A lot of our folks do have cell

36:59phones and so we do have cards that are

37:01now fireproof and waterproof. You cannot

37:04tear it and they do have a QR code to

37:07every unhoused resource that that we are

37:10aware of that exists in the city of

37:12Birmingham. It also has a way for folks

37:15who ask the question, "How do I help?

37:16How do I So it's a twofold. Um but we

37:19will also give those out every time that

37:21we go out in addition to offering rides

37:23through heart. But if they say no to us,

37:26they do they will we will have a leave

37:27behind that goes with the notice. Um we

37:30are drafting a notice that will be

37:32available in both English and Spanish

37:34that we will deliver and post um just

37:37like in the a condemnation. Um again,

37:40the removal process the resident will be

37:42allowed to decide what they want to keep

37:44and what they want to leave and those

37:46things will be clearly marked for DPW to

37:48come back when the encampment is broken

37:50down. The storage for the things that

37:52they would like to um in a

37:54partnership with Oasis and as well as a

37:57documentation process. But that will of

37:59the the items that they want to store,

38:02that will happen in partnership with the

38:03provider. So the city will not um

38:07we will not inventory any of these

38:09things and we won't take possession of

38:11of them um either. Um how notice is

38:15given

38:16typically for the encampments that we

38:19have when we do have 48 hours, our

38:21offices have been trying to go back

38:22every time until they can speak to a

38:24person as opposed to that um they come

38:27back and their things have been missing.

38:28So as you can imagine, sometimes it

38:30takes a a number of times

38:32um um going out. Um but we're willing to

38:35do it so people don't get to come back

38:37and say, "Oh, the city moved my things."

38:39Um so

38:41with this new process and with the new

38:44um consistent documentation, we will be

38:46able to post and take a picture and put

38:49it and we do create police reports um

38:51when our HOPE team goes out. Um but we

38:54our

38:55primary objective would be to try to

38:57reach that person, talk to that person,

38:59and have a conversation.

39:01Um the things that'll be in the notices

39:02the date that that's the officer

39:04engaged,

39:05um

39:06the deadline to leave the area,

39:08um

39:09clear

39:10um demarcation of what items they plan

39:12to take and what they'll be leave

39:15behind. Um and then again the contact

39:17card that I talked about.

39:23Um and again just to just to recap

39:26um

39:27why this is important.

39:30We hear from our housed residents and we

39:32hear from you guys.

39:34Um and then we also hear from our police

39:36officers. And a lot of times

39:39um

39:40their hands are tied in a number of ways

39:43when it comes to enforcement. We're very

39:45clear that this only begins to scratch

39:47the surface, right? Like this helps with

39:49one issue and it leaves others on the

39:51table. Um

39:54but it's a starting point. As far as I'm

39:56aware and I've talked to Attorney

39:58Bernard since I've been in this role,

39:59this will be the first

40:01um

40:02enforcement action that we've taken that

40:05specifically helps us deal with

40:07encampments. And for you all, for the

40:09public that's listening, I do think it's

40:10really important, like I said in the

40:12beginning, yes, we want to own our um

40:15take ownership and pride in our public

40:18spaces and we want to restore them where

40:19they feel safe and clean for everyone.

40:22And we also want them to be uh our

40:25unhoused residents to have a place

40:27that's safe and clean for them.

40:29I cannot stress enough that the parks

40:32and our bridges and public spaces are

40:34not places for people to live. And as

40:36we've we've heard um

40:39it's very concerning for us as we go

40:41into these cold months, the truth is

40:43it's not a place for people to die

40:44either. And so some of the other efforts

40:47that we've brought um before this

40:48council and will continue to bring

40:51um help us have a true ending place for

40:55people

40:56when we begin to close these

40:57encampments. So, thank you guys for um

41:00always listening and being really

41:02open-minded and supportive and so with

41:03that, I will um close pass it off to you

41:06guys if there are questions.

41:08Um

41:09>> All right, thank you very much.

41:11Counselors, any questions? Council

41:13Quinn.

41:14>> Yes. So,

41:19I understand that

41:21as I well, as I understand it, the core

41:24intent of this is to codify a protocol

41:29for

41:31how

41:33the city acts in these situations.

41:36Um

41:41But, you know, we we define

41:45what unlawful camping is

41:48here.

41:49Um

41:52However, it's my understanding that we

41:54don't allow camping on our sidewalks or

41:58in our parks

42:00or other public properties.

42:02Uh

42:03Right now.

42:04Like, that's not a

42:07permitted activity.

42:09Is that correct?

42:13>> I would think that's fair to say. We

42:15just have not had as um Director Milton

42:18said, we just not had a coordinated

42:21clear mechanism of how we're going to

42:23deal with it.

42:24>> Okay.

42:25Great. Um

42:27So,

42:30you know, it's one of the things that

42:32stands out to me in this is is that

42:36we don't specify

42:39city owned public property.

42:42We say public property

42:45and leave it at that. So, that includes

42:48state owned property,

42:50property owned by boards of education,

42:54Um um

42:55you know, other entities, publicly

42:58public entities.

43:00So,

43:02and part of the challenge of dealing

43:04with this issue

43:06has been

43:09cooperation

43:10from those other public entities in

43:16dealing with these types of situations.

43:19Um

43:20so

43:22does this

43:23in some way

43:26establish

43:29a pathway for us to have

43:34like a memorandum of understanding or or

43:38something of that nature, um with other

43:41entities to say

43:43you know,

43:45and I'm just going to use the the one

43:47that comes to mind for everybody, which

43:49is ALDOT. Um

43:52and

43:53um

43:55it is there

43:57this doesn't in any way or even a um

44:00memorandum of understanding

44:02um wouldn't in any way supersede the

44:06requirement to have a property owner

44:10identify an individual and say that

44:12individual is trespassing,

44:15um

44:16and and and that therefore allowing law

44:20enforcement to trespass an individual.

44:22Is that all correct?

44:24>> So,

44:26it's all correct.

44:28We have made a little bit of headway

44:30though specifically with ALDOT. So,

44:33their attorneys and the office of the

44:36city attorney have had one conversation

44:38and so there is a bit of a understanding

44:41now to your point about who would

44:43trespass. Um it's my understanding that

44:46predates me and I'm sure attorney

44:48Bernard will know more about this. The

44:49biggest situation and and that the issue

44:52in that is that there is no one to

44:54trespass the person, right? And um

44:57police may go through the all the do all

45:00the work to get the person moved, and

45:02then there's also nobody come back and

45:03swear out the warrant. So, what did come

45:05out of that meeting was Al Dot agreeing

45:07that in every situation, if Birmingham

45:10were to go, they would always show up in

45:13court. Um and so, there is um more of a

45:16gentleman's agreement in place um for

45:19that. I do think we need more

45:21conversations to get to your point about

45:23uh

45:24an MOU. The same with um

45:27when we talk about the overpasses, the

45:29train on

45:3019th. We've had some conversations where

45:33we could have, you know, um a

45:34cooperative agreement where they do have

45:37officers provided by the railroad who

45:39don't have authority there. And so, um

45:42we've we've started those conversations

45:43to how do we begin an agreement where

45:45they can have some enforcement because

45:48they're right there, and they see the

45:50fire sometimes. Um so, we are absolutely

45:54having those conversations to your

45:55point.

45:56>> Okay. Um

46:00Yeah, I would I would hope that, you

46:02know,

46:03I'm not

46:06an attorney or

46:08you know, even play one on TV, but um

46:11um

46:15you know, my understanding, my

46:18thought would be that you in every case

46:21um

46:22a an agreement wouldn't

46:26suffice for an individual as you say

46:30showing up in court and saying this

46:32individual was trespassing on my

46:33property. That that would be a

46:35fundamental requirement of of a

46:37trespass.

46:39Um so,

46:41at the very least, um

46:43I would hope that we would work to

46:45establish um

46:48a a point of contact with each of these

46:51entities a

46:53you know, kind of like what we're

46:55thinking about with our uh short-term

46:58rental ordinance, you know, identifying

47:00a responsible party that can respond

47:02within 30 minutes of a complaint. Um

47:08You know, because just historically

47:09that's seems to be one of the

47:12the biggest challenges is getting, you

47:14know,

47:16someone from these other entities um

47:19to engage in the process.

47:22Yeah.

47:24So

47:27that answers my question that we still

47:29have to work, you know,

47:32this doesn't cover that.

47:35Again, it just establishes a protocol of

47:38how the city acts in these situations.

47:41Um but we still have to have

47:44those other public entities being active

47:47participants in helping us to address

47:49this issue.

47:53Thank you.

47:55>> Thank you, Dr. Quinn. Any other

47:57questions? Did I see you, Council Woods?

48:01>> I was reaching. Thank you.

48:03Um

48:05similar vein, but in terms of the um

48:09clause that speaks to 30 ft

48:11within 30 ft of uh critical

48:13infrastructure.

48:15Um

48:17again, so how would that play real

48:19world? Just say you've got

48:22uh

48:22critical infrastructure.

48:25You have an encampment

48:28within 30 ft, but that encampment may be

48:30on private property.

48:32Uh

48:32what is like that actual

48:35real world? How does that play out?

48:41>> I That would be the 24-hour notice

48:44situation.

48:46I did he say pri- He said I thought he

48:47said critical infrastructure.

48:49It's something.

48:50>> That's close to infrastructure, but

48:52private property.

48:54>> The s- Yeah, the private property

48:56question is one that gets asked a lot,

48:58and we did have we've talked about a lot

49:01of different ways to go at it. Um and we

49:05recently the office of city attorney had

49:07success with the encampment that was up

49:09in College Hill. Right. Um and with

49:13using

49:15the circuit court. I mean it may not be

49:17as immediate,

49:18but um

49:20we've had success and I know other

49:21jurisdictions across the country have

49:23success with filing nuisance actions um

49:27and things about

49:28uh related to that. We

49:31we can also

49:32file

49:33with if it's violating zoning and things

49:35like that in circuit court. So we had

49:38success with that and that would be a

49:41route to take. Um

49:45a question that we're going to

49:47have to deal with and and a lot of that

49:49is going to have to be noticed to a

49:51private property owner. Um the city

49:54and under section 94 of the Constitution

49:57if we do stuff on private property,

49:59we're supposed to be able to get money

50:00back from doing that and and all of

50:03that. So going to work through some of

50:06those, but this is a big step to get us

50:09in a position, but a lot of that will

50:10have to go through civil court

50:13to deal with if it's on private

50:14property.

50:17>> I'll say too um

50:19the office of city attorney and planning

50:21engineering permits, our office and BPD

50:24um

50:25and DPW to some extent have been working

50:27on a standard operating procedure to

50:29kind of tighten up our processes to

50:32um

50:33for when we get notifications of folks

50:36on private proper property. Kind of you

50:38know, who's first in all those kinds of

50:40things. Um each case is different, but

50:43we are working on

50:45um

50:46cleaning that up as well.

50:48>> Would it be the same like if a property

50:51had been deemed a nuisance uh

50:53previously?

50:55Um

50:58we still you still need to go through

50:59this court process to

51:01if you're dealing with private property

51:03that's been deemed a nuisance uh

51:05previously, and you have that issue

51:08uh

51:08again,

51:10are we able Does that give us any

51:12authority to

51:14uh rectify the issue cuz it's it is an

51:16existing nuisance?

51:17>> Yeah. So, I'm like Councilwoman Queen, I

51:19haven't played an attorney on on even on

51:22television, either. But, you're asking

51:24the questions that um

51:26have started keeping me up at night,

51:27too. Um but,

51:29um

51:30pot maybe. Um I'm going to I I'm going

51:33to write you Well, what I've learned

51:35very quickly with some of the ones that

51:37we've been dealing with, and I mean,

51:38some of your districts particularly come

51:39to mind for me. Um some in your like um

51:43we've been dealing with them as a

51:45nuisance property,

51:47you know, one time the owner is

51:49responsive, the next time they're not.

51:51Um

51:52also, if the nuisance property I'm

51:54thinking of one that's particularly in

51:55District 1 uh um I'm sorry, in District

51:572. We

52:00dealt with it. It was a nuisance, and

52:01then it was a different set of people,

52:03so it's almost like a new case. So, each

52:05case

52:06sometimes have to stand on their own

52:08merit is what I'm learning, but I will

52:10definitely um

52:13>> Correct. Yeah, I would say it depend

52:15Yeah, again, very pretty fact dependent.

52:17If it's the same thing, the same actors,

52:19yes. If it's been declared nuisance, and

52:22a lot of times you're going to go

52:24to the owner of the property for

52:26allowing the nuisance. They need to do

52:27something to exclude people and and do

52:29that.

52:30Yeah, if they're aware that it's

52:33happening, then they need to be on

52:34notice. It really just depends on what

52:37the facts were that was declared

52:38nuisance first. But, if it's repeat, I

52:40think it makes it easier. You know, it

52:43maybe helps make it easier to make the

52:45case that this is a problem, and it's a

52:48recurring problem. But, again, depending

52:50on the facts, when you've given somebody

52:52notice, and you've gotten them out of

52:54there, and then 6 months later there's a

52:56whole different set of people in there

52:58who didn't get notice and weren't told,

53:00then

53:02that you know, creates you've got to

53:05start back from that point, but when you

53:08get to court, I think you have a better

53:10case to make that you've got

53:12this problem keeps recurring on this

53:14property. I think that makes it a little

53:16easier to make your case.

53:19>> Um and I got a

53:21a meeting request in through GA cuz I

53:23got some more dogs, but

53:25um

53:27the ability to like whether it's code

53:30enforcement to get the owners on the

53:31hook

53:32for like

53:34maintaining or protecting uh that piece

53:36and then the ability to just get um

53:40you know, I know it I think comes up as

53:42power of attorney, but just basically

53:43getting something

53:45uh standing authorization. Uh

53:48and that may, you know, but you're still

53:50talking about do you do you put a lien

53:52on the property when the city is having

53:53to go on and

53:55uh

53:56resolving things cuz

53:58>> I, you know, I I'll just, you know, tell

54:00you quickly again, everything's going to

54:02be pretty fact-based and specific.

54:05Um I was looking at a case that happened

54:07just like summer this year in another

54:10state and um basically the city had

54:14closed an encampment that was on public

54:16property and this woman allowed

54:19camping, you know, allowed them to come

54:21onto her private property and it became

54:23an unsanitary mess. The city gave her

54:26notice, told her she needed to clean it

54:28up and needed to stop the camping and

54:31wound up taking her to court on it and

54:33they wound up getting an order for her

54:35to clean it up. So, you know, it

54:40those those kinds of things are being

54:41successful other places and I think we

54:44can be successful with that here. You

54:46know, it's all

54:48there's so many fact-dependent

54:50questions out there that would have to

54:51be looked at for each case.

54:57>> Councilman?

54:59>> Thank you. Any other questions?

55:02>> Yes.

55:03Councilwoman?

55:05>> So, this is in line with everything that

55:08Mr. Woods was just saying. It I you

55:11know, in in my I guess we kind of share

55:14the same issues on the east side where

55:16most of the camping encampments and

55:19folks are um

55:22you know, they figure out what's

55:24public property and then quickly move

55:26across the street to private property.

55:30And

55:31um

55:32it's gotten to be

55:34such a

55:35you know, a a big issue. You know, we

55:38had people fly in last Thursday from

55:40Florida. They're property owners. They

55:43came

55:45you know, they come trespass folks and

55:47there's a whole different crew of folks

55:49at the

55:51at their establish at their busi- their

55:53busi- their property, you know, they're

55:55property owners.

55:56And

55:58um

55:58you know, they

56:00their one comment to us on the phone and

56:04and they spoke to the mayor as well. He

56:05was in the room on the phone.

56:08Um was you know, I don't understand why

56:10y'all can't have the police remove them.

56:13Um where I'm from in Florida, we have a

56:16rule about camping on private property

56:18and the police can come without me

56:20physically being there.

56:22And um

56:24the property owner said, you know, I

56:26can't believe that the expectation is is

56:29that I fly up to Florida to find someone

56:34made a makeshift tent in the back of my

56:36property and then

56:37I'm going to fly back and then within 2

56:39hours there will be another makeshift

56:41tent in the back of my property.

56:43And you know,

56:45the

56:46response

56:47back to her from us as a city

56:50collectively was, "Well, maybe you could

56:52have

56:53you know, somebody that gives you that

56:56you give somebody power of attorney."

56:57Well, we don't have an office here. You

56:59know, I'm a prop- I'm I'm trying to you

57:00know, I'm property owner. I have

57:02properties in all 50 states and

57:04I would like help from the city.

57:07Uh the prop- the property owner said,

57:09"I've contacted city

57:11um for over a year now trying to get

57:13help. I can't do it. The property owner

57:15literally took a flight up here just to

57:17trespass people.

57:19Um

57:20and

57:22it seems that I I think this ordinance

57:25is is needed very much so. So, I'm not

57:27distracting from the ordinance, but it

57:29seems that there should be a you know,

57:31when when she said that, I started

57:33looking up other ordinances and they

57:36seem to also include private property

57:40and camping. So, why can we not include

57:45private property under the guise of

57:48something that is

57:50um

57:51out outside of zoning, outside of um

57:55you know, we we make um folks at Barber

57:59Motorsports and at um the Magic City

58:02Classic get an uh

58:04PEP go down there doing an inspection if

58:06they put up a tent.

58:08A tent that's open that people could

58:10walk out of. I mean, not like a enclosed

58:13tent, but like we make you know, we make

58:16it harder for someone to put up a tent

58:19at the Classic or at Barber Motorsports

58:22or at our other

58:23private area in private venues because

58:26they need an inspection. And that's been

58:29a

58:30long I mean, that's been a problem since

58:31I've been on this council, but why are

58:33we not putting

58:36the people that are

58:38on these private properties through the

58:40same rigor as we're doing people that

58:43are bringing

58:44entertainment to the city.

58:46>> Well,

58:47part of that is because they're doing it

58:49without permission. They're doing it

58:51unlawfully. And you're correct you're

58:53kind of hitting on the issue. I mean,

58:54with private property one of the things

58:56that would be

58:58in a case to take to court would be that

59:01the structures are not

59:04suitable for habitation.

59:07Um you know, now you're going to have

59:08the kid that wants to have a sleepover,

59:11put up a tent in the backyard.

59:13>> though, right? I mean

59:14>> Birmingham police aren't going to a

59:16sleepover in someone's backyard and

59:18ripping kids out of a tent.

59:19>> No, and no, I know that. So, you know,

59:22we

59:22would need to be crafted, you know, to

59:24deal

59:25with what's allowed and what's not. I

59:27mean, the intent is that, you know,

59:30they would be living there.

59:32We basically have ordinances that

59:34already deal with that. We have

59:35technical codes, we have zoning, we have

59:37things that that would not be an

59:39appropriate housing situation under any

59:42of those on private property. So, that's

59:46one way we dealt with the situation in

59:48Collegeville.

59:49So, we have things in place that address

59:53those. I'll be glad to look at see I

59:55would be glad to look at some of the

59:58things that you're talking about. Let me

1:00:00Let us look. Are they Alabama cities?

1:00:03Are they in other states? You mentioned

1:00:05Florida.

1:00:05>> I don't want to delay I'm definitely not

1:00:08not trying to delay this.

1:00:08>> Oh, no, no, no. I was not saying to

1:00:10delay this, but if you want to provide

1:00:13additional information that we can look

1:00:16at. See, because sometimes there could

1:00:18be a quirk in state law that allows

1:00:20something one way or another. So, I'd be

1:00:22glad to look at the examples that you're

1:00:24looking at. Have, you know, somebody in

1:00:26OCI, me or somebody in OCI look at it

1:00:28and see is there a way we can deal with

1:00:30it. But for right now, I mean, what

1:00:32we've said is we have zoning, we have

1:00:35technical codes which says what is an

1:00:37appropriate um structure for habitation.

1:00:40Tents, RVs, um

1:00:45cardboard boxes, whatever, don't fit

1:00:48a habitable structure. So, we have

1:00:50things that we can enforce on that.

1:00:52>> So, my question is why don't we?

1:00:55Because, you know, this woman says she's

1:00:57called Birmingham police for 18 months.

1:01:00And

1:01:01you know, East Precinct says there's

1:01:03absolutely nothing we can do about it.

1:01:04It's private property.

1:01:05>> Because that's not necessarily a police

1:01:07issue.

1:01:09So.

1:01:10That's what we've been talking about.

1:01:12That's why um Um, Director Melton

1:01:14mentioned, you know, that we've been

1:01:15having conversations, and that's part of

1:01:17the conversation is where

1:01:20do certain complaints go? They need to

1:01:22go through certain

1:01:24routes. And I mean, that was one thing I

1:01:27talked She and I talked about when we

1:01:29first embarked on trying to get this

1:01:31ordinance put together

1:01:33was we need to make decisions

1:01:35as to who are our partners

1:01:38and in dealing with this. Um, you know,

1:01:41I've mentioned DPW, PEP,

1:01:44um,

1:01:45B-dot, Birmingham Fire and Rescue,

1:01:47Police Department. You know, there's

1:01:50multiple internal partners, and then we

1:01:52have external partners. We have our

1:01:53outreach partners. We have like One Roof

1:01:56and you know, other groups in the city

1:01:57that are also external proper partners,

1:02:00perhaps mental health, you know, various

1:02:03others, um,

1:02:04and so, that's part of this about making

1:02:09standard operating procedures is how do

1:02:11we bring those partners together? You

1:02:13know, you don't necessarily need B-dot

1:02:15if it's not on right of way. I mean, the

1:02:18Park and Rec Board is another partner.

1:02:20So, it's figuring out how to do that,

1:02:21and that's why the ordinance authorizes

1:02:23the mayor, and I've added in, you know,

1:02:25his or her designee and other

1:02:27departmental staff

1:02:28to come up with standard operating

1:02:30procedures, and that's part of what

1:02:32we've been discussing is

1:02:34where because

1:02:35some of these complaints, from what I've

1:02:38heard feedback from Ms. Melton and from

1:02:40PEP and others, they don't always land.

1:02:43They get sent to somebody and they're

1:02:44like, "This this isn't me." So, we're

1:02:47talking about how to get the complaints

1:02:49routed to the right area to deal with

1:02:53that type of complaint.

1:02:56So, that's that's been a piece of it.

1:02:58>> And I do want to say, so what PEP has

1:03:01done, and we're super grateful, is that

1:03:02they've identified, um, a project

1:03:05manager now who's beginning to, um,

1:03:08catalog all of these.

1:03:10Um, and so,

1:03:12it's not always the the place to start,

1:03:14but for the most part it is, because

1:03:15they're really the only entity that's

1:03:17able to engage if there are these

1:03:19violations, right?

1:03:21Um the to the point about East Precinct,

1:03:23like they can't go on the property. Um

1:03:25we've had um calls for us to go when

1:03:29technically we're not supposed to go um

1:03:32either. So, what we've done is gotten

1:03:34people especially

1:03:35um in these commercial spaces when we

1:03:37when they come out when they're in the

1:03:38tower we're engaged and we offer

1:03:40resources. Um and so

1:03:43right now PEP is documenting and um

1:03:46beginning to catalog these the

1:03:48especially the ones that we keep

1:03:49getting. And so

1:03:51it looks like to your point um

1:03:55maybe that nothing's being done. It's

1:03:56just a much slower process like Attorney

1:03:58Bernard mentioned.

1:04:00Getting in touch with the property

1:04:01owner, getting them to be responsive. If

1:04:03they're not um being responsive, going

1:04:05through the court system. And it's just

1:04:07it's just taking longer.

1:04:10And it doesn't look like anything

1:04:11physically is being done.

1:04:13Um and so I

1:04:15I think we need to keep having these

1:04:16conversations because you're right. I

1:04:18know all the ones that are top of mind

1:04:20for you and we go now almost every day

1:04:23and it's the same issue. So, as just

1:04:25frustrating it is for you, it is for our

1:04:27officers, too, and for the HEART team.

1:04:29Um cuz you move a person, you house a

1:04:31person, and you take all that care and

1:04:33somebody is right back there. Um our

1:04:35hands are tied the same way. Sometimes

1:04:37when we go, especially as unhoused

1:04:39services, they're like, "Why are you

1:04:41here? I am not unhoused. Did you not

1:04:43just knock on my door?" Um and so we've

1:04:46learned very quickly like we're really

1:04:48not the probably the best first line of

1:04:52defense. Um

1:04:54but we're great when that eviction or

1:04:57that condemnation happens because now

1:05:00you want and need the resources that we

1:05:02may be able to offer and people are much

1:05:04more receptive. So, these conversations

1:05:06with PEP have been very helpful to begin

1:05:08to use the code and um and things that

1:05:11the tools that we do have in the

1:05:13toolbox. That is not to say um I hope

1:05:16it's safe to say. I agree with you. We

1:05:18we we, we need something, but we've been

1:05:20talking about is what is that something

1:05:22that's enforceable and how

1:05:25much leeway do we have here? I think I

1:05:27heard Council Smitherman in a different

1:05:28meeting mention, is it state

1:05:30legislation? Like, what exactly what do

1:05:32we need to have enough teeth to do

1:05:34exactly what you're saying,

1:05:36um, where property owners are not having

1:05:38to fly in, but also how do we address

1:05:40the ones that are not trying to fly in,

1:05:43right? The ones who don't even take our

1:05:44phone calls or the letters come back.

1:05:47Um,

1:05:48that's the X that we we're trying to

1:05:50solve for as well.

1:05:51>> So,

1:05:53can I offer a suggestion?

1:05:55>> Please.

1:05:56>> Because

1:05:57the

1:05:58watching the frustration with this

1:06:00company and the

1:06:03people coming back and

1:06:06them filling up an entire, you know, uh,

1:06:10commercial dumpster of trash over the

1:06:12course of, you know, a week or whatever

1:06:14it is of of stuff cuz the people just

1:06:16kept coming back each each day, people

1:06:19coming back.

1:06:20And then they got to the point where

1:06:21their dumpster got full before it got

1:06:23dumped of of the trash that they had to

1:06:26have removed every day.

1:06:28Um,

1:06:29and

1:06:30that, you know,

1:06:32then

1:06:33uh,

1:06:34the person when the person came the

1:06:36trash was full and they the homeless

1:06:38people had brought back an an entire

1:06:42slew of other trash that they had

1:06:44collected and just thrown it on the

1:06:46ground. So, you know, in Alabama,

1:06:49you don't have to the property owner

1:06:51doesn't have to be present to charge

1:06:54somebody with criminal littering.

1:06:56And that those people were littering on

1:06:59that property owner's property.

1:07:01And, um,

1:07:04if that is a police response and that

1:07:07and they're doing the same thing at the

1:07:08church that I keep

1:07:10sending to you guys. I mean, when I

1:07:12drove out there that morning, there was

1:07:14a woman with two, um,

1:07:17Walmart grocery carts and she was just

1:07:19taking everything out and throwing it on

1:07:21the ground

1:07:23right, you know, at the church. And then

1:07:26she'd go back and collect whatever it is

1:07:27she collected.

1:07:29But,

1:07:29>> And yet, on criminal littering, I know

1:07:31that would be something that a police

1:07:33officer would have to observe in order

1:07:35to make an arrest or deal with it. They

1:07:39um or someone who you said somebody saw

1:07:41her do it, that person could go to the

1:07:44magistrate to seek a warrant because

1:07:45they saw it, they had firsthand

1:07:47knowledge that that's what happened.

1:07:49So, again, very fact-dependent. It

1:07:52depends on what the situations are. But,

1:07:54under Alabama law, you can't arrest

1:07:57unless you see the person

1:08:00commit a misdemeanor. So, that that that

1:08:03is one issue that we've had and that's

1:08:04an issue we've had with littering. Um

1:08:08there

1:08:09I don't I don't I won't go down the

1:08:10rabbit hole on all of that. But, um but

1:08:13that is, you know, that is a concern.

1:08:15Again, that's a

1:08:17also something that could go back to the

1:08:19property owner if it's there and it

1:08:20remains. remains. There's uh you know,

1:08:22it also comes unlawful dumping, um which

1:08:25you know, is criminal littering and

1:08:27unlawful dumping intersect and Ado has

1:08:30ability to do that. I was going to ask,

1:08:32I don't want to

1:08:33you know,

1:08:34stretch this conversation too far and we

1:08:36can talk later, but what what are these

1:08:39properties? You mentioned a church. Is

1:08:41it an occupied church? Is it a church in

1:08:43use?

1:08:44>> These are all properties that are for

1:08:45sale. They're unoccupied. And that is

1:08:47how that that's how they're able to have

1:08:49this complete flow of people. Most of

1:08:52these people are jumping off the train

1:08:54at the Irondale train yard and they're

1:08:56coming to um either sell drugs or buy

1:08:58drugs in the area and they're and

1:09:00they're using it as a pit stop before

1:09:02they go somewhere else.

1:09:03>> Okay.

1:09:04>> The problem is is that those people will

1:09:06not stay in that area, they will get

1:09:08trespassed and they will move on to

1:09:09somewhere else and there'll be a new

1:09:11group of people that are using drugs at

1:09:14those at those abandoned properties. The

1:09:16whole idea of Birmingham police saying

1:09:18like, "I I can't do anything." is yeah,

1:09:20you can't if you go out there, all the

1:09:22mess is criminal littering. And if you

1:09:24observe it, you can arrest. If you go

1:09:26out there and they have drug

1:09:27paraphernalia, you can arrest them for

1:09:29drugs or drug paraphernalia. But, I

1:09:31think the frustration is on the on for

1:09:34the residents around all these

1:09:36properties is you have property owners

1:09:39that are contacting the city, begging

1:09:40the city to do something, saying that

1:09:42these people are not authorized to be

1:09:44here. And then and they and they also

1:09:47say the following. They're saying

1:09:51Let's use the lady in Florida for

1:09:53example. Well, I I mean, I could have

1:09:55properties in all 50 states, and if I

1:09:57call the police and say someone's not

1:09:58supposed to be on my property, the

1:10:00police go take them off my property.

1:10:02There it's no

1:10:03I got They're sorry. They have They've

1:10:06got to stay on your property in

1:10:07Birmingham.

1:10:09And there also is the notion from the

1:10:11residents

1:10:13which they say all the time is

1:10:15well

1:10:16you think that if there were people

1:10:19camped out behind my house in Mountain

1:10:20Brook, Vestavia, Homewood, or Hoover

1:10:22that they'd be able to just stay camped

1:10:24out there

1:10:25for a month?

1:10:28And that's what That's the response that

1:10:30I get from the

1:10:32And I think we all know the answer to

1:10:33that. But, that's the response that I

1:10:35get. I really like the ordinance though

1:10:37in in short, but I do think that we have

1:10:39to tackle what's going on on private

1:10:41property cuz this will help push people

1:10:44to private property, and I think that

1:10:46that is a

1:10:47problem.

1:10:49>> Noted.

1:10:50Thank you, Council Williams. Any other

1:10:52questions?

1:10:53The comments?

1:10:56Yes, Council Smith.

1:10:57>> Just add my two cents. I do because my

1:10:59residents will want me to say that. I do

1:11:01agree with Council Williams that

1:11:03majority of

1:11:05the complaints my office and I get are

1:11:07on private property, and

1:11:09um you know, Director Milton has been um

1:11:12she really has been amazing in

1:11:13addressing it, but she just doesn't have

1:11:16really the resources to do anything

1:11:19else. So, if we could just have

1:11:21something

1:11:22long-term, I think that would help us a

1:11:24lot. But, I really read this ordinance,

1:11:26and it's really really good. I really

1:11:28appreciate you all cuz I know that was

1:11:30some of the feedback was having steps in

1:11:32place before you actually um remove

1:11:35people's items. So, I think this is

1:11:38really good. Thank you both for your

1:11:40hard work on this. I think this is going

1:11:42to be really, really good, and I think

1:11:44hopefully everybody will feel some type

1:11:46of

1:11:47resolution to these things on public

1:11:50property. Cuz I know on 5.7 South

1:11:51Houston, Councilwoman Williams, at one

1:11:53point, the sidewalks the mayor went to

1:11:55visit that they were had

1:11:57items where you couldn't even walk the

1:11:59sidewalk. So, I think um this will give

1:12:02more teeth for things like that. Thank

1:12:03you.

1:12:06>> All right, thank you. I do want to thank

1:12:07Director

1:12:09Milton and Attorney Bernard. I know

1:12:12we've worked You've worked with us

1:12:15uh quite extensively to ensure that the

1:12:18essence of what we wanted has been put

1:12:21into the ordinance. And the key pieces,

1:12:23again, of um ensuring that these spaces

1:12:27are monitored, and they are when they

1:12:30become a nuisance, that we have some

1:12:32guidelines and some key action that can

1:12:36take place. I do want to piggyback,

1:12:39though, on the comments of I know we've

1:12:41often relied on our environmental code

1:12:43ordinances to help us in instances when

1:12:46it's private property, but I would like

1:12:48to see that we um

1:12:51take on some opportunity here to go back

1:12:53into those codes. And just listening to

1:12:55some of the things that any of us who've

1:12:57had encampments in our

1:12:59uh districts, and especially when they

1:13:01were on private property,

1:13:03um I think this we could add some of

1:13:06that and some teeth into those code

1:13:08enforcement violations, environmental

1:13:10code enforcement violations. So, if we

1:13:12could have an opportunity to go back,

1:13:14this does, I feel, start us on a

1:13:17pathway. And it does, um as Councilwoman

1:13:20Smitherman said, um addresses um some of

1:13:23the primary issues that we had

1:13:25originally about the public properties.

1:13:28And for me, it's also showing some

1:13:31compassion for the people that we are

1:13:34removing as far as, you know, you have

1:13:37your own personal property, having that

1:13:39time, and then using our heart program

1:13:42and other programs we have when it's not

1:13:44More than often sometimes we're dealing

1:13:46with mental health issues and that's all

1:13:49people have and then we're pulling that

1:13:51from them. And so I do like to see I do

1:13:54see and hear that we're taking

1:13:56consideration for that. Okay, yes, in my

1:13:59>> Follow up.

1:14:01Yeah, quick follow up. So,

1:14:03unfortunately I'm not going to be able

1:14:05to attend the annual summit um

1:14:09on Friday um

1:14:11and that may be the case for most of us

1:14:14um

1:14:15However, you know,

1:14:18I think we're all obviously extremely

1:14:21interested and this is an important

1:14:23topic that affects all of our districts

1:14:25um

1:14:26and I just want to plant a seed that

1:14:30uh

1:14:32it would be really helpful for for me to

1:14:35be able to

1:14:37have a a conversation

1:14:41um

1:14:41you know, a more in-depth conversation

1:14:45about the big picture strategy um

1:14:49and you know, being able to discuss like

1:14:52these private property issues and you

1:14:56know,

1:14:58the

1:14:59probably one of the most important

1:15:01things is

1:15:03is, you know,

1:15:04a lot of these folks um

1:15:09they they can't go to a shelter, won't

1:15:11go to a shelter

1:15:13uh so,

1:15:15you know, there has to be some part of

1:15:17the strategy that addresses that

1:15:19situation um

1:15:21and

1:15:22so,

1:15:24all of that to say that I think

1:15:29whether it's in a mayor council retreat

1:15:31or some other setting where we can have,

1:15:34you know, a good chunk of time to be

1:15:37able to get a big picture view and and

1:15:41discuss some of the nitty-gritty details

1:15:44and

1:15:45um exchange ideas.

1:15:47I think I would benefit from that.

1:15:50>> Thank you.

1:15:51Councilor Williams, did you say you had

1:15:53a comment or something?

1:15:54>> Well, I was asking if we needed a

1:15:55motion.

1:15:56>> Yes, that's my That was my next thing.

1:15:58Please do.

1:16:02>> Second.

1:16:03>> All right.

1:16:05Very good. The motion and second is to

1:16:07move this um draft ordinance forward

1:16:09forward for

1:16:11full review and approval by the council.

1:16:13All those in favor, please say I.

1:16:15All right, thank you. We'll move that

1:16:17item forward. Thank you all again. Thank

1:16:19>> you have a date you want it to move

1:16:20forward?

1:16:21>> Well, did you all have some more time?

1:16:23Can you do it by Tuesday or can you do

1:16:24it by the 17th?

1:16:26>> Well, we're past the deadline to submit

1:16:29today for next Tuesday.

1:16:31>> So, let's do the 17th.

1:16:33Okay, good.

1:16:34>> Unless a councilor wants to make an

1:16:35amendment to the agenda.

1:16:40>> Can you make it Well, you already had

1:16:41your meeting for the agenda meeting and

1:16:43everything. So, let's do the 17th.

1:16:47You can do it for Tuesday. Okay, thank

1:16:48you. We'll go ahead and have that for

1:16:50Tuesday.

1:16:50>> Can we have a copy of the presentation,

1:16:53too? Or at least the steps for more

1:16:55detailed Okay, thank you.

1:16:57>> And that was emailed to you. If you'll

1:16:59check your emails, you'll see that in

1:17:01the email.

1:17:04But she's got edits in it. Yeah, I

1:17:06pulled it up.

1:17:07Okay, it's okay. But it did have edits,

1:17:10so if you'll get that, thank you. All

1:17:12right, thank you very much. We have our

1:17:13final presentation this afternoon and um

1:17:17this was

1:17:18presentation that's requested by

1:17:20Councilor Woods and this is to hear from

1:17:23the Central Alabama Home Builders

1:17:25Academy. And Councilor Woods, would you

1:17:27like to kind of

1:17:29>> Uh yeah, y'all can come on up. But I'll

1:17:31give some context. Um

1:17:33you've probably gotten some information

1:17:36over the last few months, but

1:17:38uh basically they got a There was a bill

1:17:40passed in the legislature

1:17:42um that allows for the Home Builders

1:17:44Academy

1:17:46to add a fee to uh residential building

1:17:50permits, and they are looking to start

1:17:53the Central Alabama Home Building

1:17:54Academy. Uh they found a location here

1:17:57in Birmingham, and are here to share and

1:18:00better detail than me, so I'll uh hand

1:18:03it over to you.

1:18:04>> Thank you. If you gentlemen would

1:18:05introduce yourselves, and then we'll

1:18:07hear your presentation. Thank you.

1:18:09>> Yes, ma'am. Thank you. Robin Cooper with

1:18:11the um

1:18:12Greater Birmingham Association of Home

1:18:13Builders. Um

1:18:16Nick Miles

1:18:17uh is one of our board members for the

1:18:19Academy, and Andrew Davis is also a

1:18:21board member for the Academy. I do want

1:18:22to pass out some items uh to each of

1:18:24you, and I just What's the best way to

1:18:26do that?

1:18:26>> He's going to do it for you right there.

1:18:28Thank you.

1:18:33I love it if you just hand them to

1:18:34council. Remember that you can just put

1:18:36them in half. Thank you.

1:18:44>> [snorts]

1:18:45>> Just have it pass it down.

1:18:47Thank you.

1:18:48Thank you.

1:19:09>> All right, so I'm going to let Nick come

1:19:11up, and he's going to be our presenter,

1:19:13and he's going to talk about what y'all

1:19:14have in front of you. Thank you very

1:19:15much.

1:19:17Hey everybody. Uh thank you all for the

1:19:19time today. Um thank you, Madam

1:19:21President. Um

1:19:22so a little bit about CAHA, just kind of

1:19:23give you all background of who we are.

1:19:25So, it's the Central Alabama Home

1:19:27Builders Academy. Um we started this

1:19:29journey back in 2021,

1:19:32um trying to look at state legislation

1:19:34to pass state legislation. So, if you

1:19:36all are more with kind of Go Build

1:19:37Alabama and the Craft Academy on the

1:19:39commercial side. The residential guys,

1:19:41we don't have anything like that. So, um

1:19:43we one of our members of association in

1:19:46Huntsville created North Alabama Home

1:19:48Building Academy and had extreme success

1:19:50with it. Um so, like in 2022, we went up

1:19:53there and we toured it and said, "This

1:19:54is amazing. You're doing amazing

1:19:56things." Um

1:19:57so, they probably graduated a thousand

1:19:59students now and then they started in

1:20:01COVID. Um they've had a

1:20:0495% placement rate in the residential

1:20:06construction industry and mechanical,

1:20:08electrical, plumbing skills trades.

1:20:11Um and so, I do want to clarify this is

1:20:13a boot camp, so this is not like

1:20:15certifications. So, this is really a

1:20:17workforce development program designed

1:20:19to have qualified people that want to

1:20:22show up to work that they graduate after

1:20:258 weeks of night time classes and we

1:20:27have a job fair and we place them in

1:20:28jobs. And so, that's really what this

1:20:30is, a workforce development boot camp.

1:20:32Um so, they will graduate with the

1:20:34Safety Six certification and they will

1:20:36get training, basic training in

1:20:37mechanical, electrical, and plumbing in

1:20:39the beginning. And we're going to expand

1:20:40that as we grow. Um and so, that's the

1:20:44concept of it. And then, outside of

1:20:46that, our local trades and our

1:20:48association as a whole, statewide, we

1:20:51passed state legislation to allow us to

1:20:53collect a fee that we as the trades and

1:20:56the home builders, I'm a home builder,

1:20:57that we will basically assess ourselves

1:21:00through permitting. Um was the intent of

1:21:02the program.

1:21:04Um as y'all know, we have a big labor

1:21:05need in in

1:21:07across everywhere, but residential home

1:21:09builders especially. Um it has been very

1:21:12difficult to find any of my trades to

1:21:13find any help. Um they a lot of times

1:21:16they hire somebody, they'll show up a

1:21:18day or two, and then they'll disappear

1:21:20and never hear from again. Um and so,

1:21:22really this program's designed to knock

1:21:24out two or three months of that process

1:21:27um

1:21:27for them. So, have somebody So, to

1:21:30qualify, you got to be 17 or older and

1:21:32pass a drug test and show up for 8

1:21:34weeks. And it's free to the students.

1:21:36So, what in Huntsville has found over

1:21:39this is it's it's created a whole

1:21:41another pathway for recent high school

1:21:43graduates or people that have gone to

1:21:45college and didn't get a job. And as AI

1:21:48is coming online more and more, this job

1:21:50is a apper's. I mean, in a skilled

1:21:52trade, if they go learn how to be an

1:21:53electrician or plumber or whatever, um

1:21:55you know, we're not going to certify on

1:21:56that, but they're going to land a job to

1:21:58get them to an apprenticeship to get

1:22:00them to a journeyman level.

1:22:01And that's really the goal. Um we've had

1:22:04a lot of success stories out of

1:22:05Huntsville

1:22:06um in that process. And then

1:22:08forgot to mention earlier, their

1:22:0912-month retention rate is 85% in our

1:22:14industry is what Huntsville's averaging

1:22:16over that 1,000 students.

1:22:18So, they've had a really good success on

1:22:19it.

1:22:20Um it the way it kind of funds, if I'm

1:22:23going too fast, I have a problem with

1:22:24doing that. So, y'all just tell me to

1:22:25slow down. But, um

1:22:28it will fund through cities. So, we've

1:22:30we've passed in the city of Hoover,

1:22:31we've passed in Mountain Brook, we've

1:22:33passed in Vestavia, we've passed in a

1:22:34lot of over the mountain places like

1:22:36Alabaster. And so, we are slowly as this

1:22:39is not my full-time job currently, we

1:22:42are working through going to see all the

1:22:43city councils. And so, we've been

1:22:45working with Flint Woods over there for

1:22:47a while now, kind of working through

1:22:49what this would look like. Um and so,

1:22:51we're welcome to we'd love City of

1:22:52Birmingham's support to help us in this

1:22:54endeavor.

1:22:55Um

1:22:56we have private money, too, that's

1:22:58coming in. And then as we grow, we'll

1:23:00get some grant stuff coming in as well.

1:23:02Um

1:23:02North Alabama has got what kind of

1:23:05spurred the the state

1:23:07legislation to do it was

1:23:10Lowe's came in and offered them a

1:23:11$250,000 grant. Um

1:23:14and then they liked the program so much

1:23:15they came back and said, "Here's

1:23:16$250,000 more, go put five more in the

1:23:18state." So, $50,000 of that is coming to

1:23:21our program in Birmingham. They also we

1:23:23have one starting in Mobile, and we have

1:23:25one also starting in

1:23:28Montgomery area, Montgomery-Lee County.

1:23:30They hadn't picked which way. And then

1:23:31maybe one in the Shoals.

1:23:33Um long-term we'll have some satellite

1:23:35locations as we kind of you know, have a

1:23:38mobile class room that we can kind of

1:23:39move and start going a a farther out.

1:23:42But, our location is actually, I

1:23:43believe, in your location, Mr. Quinn.

1:23:45So, we're on 4th Avenue South and 30th

1:23:48Street.

1:23:53Um if y'all look through this right

1:23:55here, here's kind of

1:23:57the process of the that they go through

1:23:58this the school program. Um we do have a

1:24:01lead instructor, executive officer, this

1:24:03this currently a new employee that we

1:24:05just hired as we just signed our lease

1:24:07here in city of Birmingham and and now

1:24:09we have hired our first employee.

1:24:12Um so, we are nonprofit 501c3.

1:24:17And then, I'll let y'all kind of read

1:24:18through that unless y'all have any

1:24:19questions. We got demographics in here.

1:24:21Um the you know, we we have ordinances

1:24:24we've passed in a lot of the cities. The

1:24:26only thing about the ordinance, you

1:24:27know, that we've modified is a couple

1:24:29cities have asked us to come to our

1:24:30report, you know, and we do track

1:24:32everything as you can see in this data.

1:24:33A lot of this data is coming from the

1:24:35NAHA. So, we'll track everything like

1:24:37that so we can report that back annually

1:24:39if y'all would like to see that how we

1:24:40how the money is being used.

1:24:47Oh, yeah. So, we we are advertising now.

1:24:50We have a wait list of people. Our first

1:24:52class will be in January.

1:24:54So, we are in the build-out stage right

1:24:55now of the program of the classrooms.

1:24:58Um and then, we we already have a

1:25:00waiting list of people for the first

1:25:01class.

1:25:02Um we expect to have a couple hundred

1:25:03people on the waiting list by the time

1:25:05that we really get started. And and I've

1:25:07advertised on the radio a little bit and

1:25:09we're doing some geo Facebook ads and

1:25:11some

1:25:12social ads now.

1:25:14Andrew, do you have anything to add?

1:25:17>> I'm ready for any questions.

1:25:19I do want to add again, we are

1:25:21we have passed this minute this

1:25:23ordinance in other municipalities, but

1:25:25we're here with y'all. We're we are in

1:25:27Birmingham and we really want you guys

1:25:30to be partners.

1:25:31We've committed to a 5-year lease. So,

1:25:34we're we're not going to show up, have a

1:25:36few classes, and disappear in a year.

1:25:38We're here long term

1:25:40because we believe in it, but we've

1:25:41already seen the success of it. So, we

1:25:44need to have you, Councilman Woodfin,

1:25:46come uh by the building and see it.

1:25:49>> So, do we get

1:25:52>> Councilor Wood, do do we need to

1:25:54adjust our fee schedule

1:25:57all in our code or

1:25:59>> Right. So, the the ordinance itself

1:26:02legal is reviewing it. Um

1:26:04and so, ultimately, it would just be a

1:26:06fee assessed only to the residential uh

1:26:09construction permits.

1:26:11And so, we can look at

1:26:14how we want to proceed today because

1:26:16like I said, the ordinance itself will

1:26:18get kicked out of legal

1:26:20um

1:26:22I don't know, somewhere next

1:26:23couple days, but

1:26:26uh if we wanted to

1:26:30go to full council or go to another

1:26:31committee, I think just having to do

1:26:32that, but

1:26:34it's I mean, it's a one-pager, but yeah,

1:26:36the the

1:26:40the fee schedule would adjust based on

1:26:41the um

1:26:43ordinance.

1:26:47>> Any other questions?

1:26:48>> Yeah, I have a question.

1:26:49>> Yes, Council.

1:26:49>> So,

1:26:50on your fee schedule with the other

1:26:52municipalities that you guys have

1:26:54participating, are they all are they all

1:26:56$20 Are they all at the same rate? Is it

1:26:58all $20 per residential permit?

1:27:00>> Yes, sir.

1:27:01>> And that's a one-time fee. That's not a

1:27:03recurring fee. Like, it's not monthly.

1:27:06It's one-time.

1:27:07>> One permit, one fee.

1:27:08>> Yeah, so a residential permit. So, say

1:27:10I'm going to go build a new house or I'm

1:27:12going to remodel my house and say that I

1:27:15pull a permit. I'm the builder, so I'd

1:27:17pull a building permit.

1:27:18>> Have you pulled one in Birmingham?

1:27:19>> He's pulled many.

1:27:21Um

1:27:22so, I haven't done it in about 5 years,

1:27:24but then if the plumber would come in,

1:27:26he would also pull a permit and and pay

1:27:28the $20. So, like, it'd be like $100

1:27:31total if you had a big project.

1:27:33Per per project or house.

1:27:36>> Okay.

1:27:38>> Go ahead.

1:27:39>> I'm not familiar with the state law.

1:27:40This is Does it through

1:27:42apply to all residential building

1:27:44permits? So, this is not strictly for

1:27:47new construction. This is

1:27:49>> All. Yeah.

1:27:50>> Yes.

1:27:50>> What I'll

1:27:51What I'll clarify, too,

1:27:52>> If you're talking to the mic. Thank you.

1:27:56>> It is for all.

1:27:58And the focus, to Nick's point, is the

1:28:02skilled trade. So, if I have a plumber

1:28:05coming to pull a permit

1:28:06relative to my project or

1:28:09a residential job,

1:28:11he he is also getting assessed a $20

1:28:15fee. That is

1:28:16in the current setup in the Birmingham

1:28:19fee structure. So, to Nick's point, if

1:28:21I'm doing a comprehensive remodel where

1:28:22I have

1:28:24all of my MEPs plus my permit,

1:28:26that will be a $20 fee to each one of

1:28:29us.

1:28:30>> Yeah. Okay.

1:28:31>> but you only one time.

1:28:33>> All right.

1:28:34That makes sense. Um you know, because

1:28:37all municipalities aren't equal in terms

1:28:39of, you know, new residential

1:28:41construction. Um so,

1:28:44that would uh certainly

1:28:46you know,

1:28:48the projection on the actual revenue

1:28:51from this um would be obviously a lot

1:28:54higher if it covers all build-building

1:28:57permits. So,

1:28:59just wanted to get some sense of that.

1:29:01>> and and to speak to that, something that

1:29:02we've done

1:29:04prior to getting the law passed is

1:29:07is we did as much

1:29:09internal audit with municipalities to to

1:29:11get an understanding of how many permits

1:29:14were actually pulled relative to small

1:29:17projects or new construction.

1:29:20I'm sure as you know, in Jefferson

1:29:21County, we have or we 38 municipalities

1:29:24that Okay, it

1:29:26everybody pulls their data differently.

1:29:28And

1:29:30our assessment of City of Birmingham,

1:29:32and you're not experts, but from doing

1:29:35our own research, we think that this

1:29:37probably

1:29:39is somewhere in the 50

1:29:41to 75,000 dollar range per year.

1:29:44That That's what

1:29:46from from our research, but um I think

1:29:48you guys might be able to

1:29:50confirm that. Um

1:29:53You've got better access to those

1:29:54numbers.

1:29:57Thank you.

1:29:58>> Any other questions? Yes, Councilwoman.

1:30:00>> Uh yeah, and

1:30:02and I'll try to I'll read forward it

1:30:03out, but you should have an email from

1:30:05me because we did get the administration

1:30:07did pull

1:30:09uh 2025's residential permit quantity,

1:30:12so they did pull that and were able to

1:30:15establish um

1:30:18uh

1:30:19what a $20 fee would represent and it

1:30:21was

1:30:22I want to say

1:30:24I hate to say it. I want to pull try to

1:30:25pull it up. I think it was about

1:30:26$150,000

1:30:28will be representative of a of a year

1:30:31of 2025.

1:30:34But you got If you look for your email,

1:30:36you should have kind of that breakdown

1:30:38that I got from them.

1:30:41>> Okay. Councilwoman Gardner.

1:30:43>> Yep, just a quick question. Uh have you

1:30:45all been intentionally collaborating or

1:30:46partnering with the Birmingham City

1:30:48Schools?

1:30:49>> Uh I have met with um a couple of

1:30:52superintendents in different school

1:30:54zones and we hope to participate in that

1:30:56mobile classroom I was telling you

1:30:57about. We would like to start going to

1:30:59the middle schools and high schools and

1:31:01tell them, "Hey, we're a pathway after

1:31:03you graduate if you so choose to." Like

1:31:05that's the whole concept. I mean, yes,

1:31:07we need labor workers, but at the same

1:31:10time, we also need to create different

1:31:11pathways for for students because right

1:31:14now, college as expensive it is is not

1:31:16really a pathway and we'd love to give

1:31:18them a career cuz this is not really a

1:31:19job, this is a career. So, like this is

1:31:21this is something that you can take with

1:31:23and you you can do forever.

1:31:25>> Okay.

1:31:27Any other questions? Comments?

1:31:30All right, we want to thank you for

1:31:31making this presentation to us today. I

1:31:33believe there are some other documents

1:31:34that we need to review and I would like

1:31:36for it to go to at least one committee

1:31:38uh when we talk about now that we're

1:31:40going to have um

1:31:41a new fee schedule or um permitting fees

1:31:44that will be associated with this. So,

1:31:47thank you all very much and we will um

1:31:51work through within the council what the

1:31:53next steps are with the committee

1:31:55presentations so that we can get this

1:31:57before the council. Okay?

1:31:59>> Okay. Thank you all so much.

1:32:00>> Thank you very much. Thank you, Council

1:32:01Woods, for being sure that we now have

1:32:04this information.

1:32:05>> Yeah, once they get the

1:32:07the ordinance draft completed,

1:32:11we can

1:32:13>> Yes.

1:32:13>> we'll talk about it. We can go to budget

1:32:14or we can come here or

1:32:16whatever we need to do, but we'll we'll

1:32:18sort that out.

1:32:20But yeah, look forward to

1:32:22>> I have one request

1:32:24while we consider this. It Can we get

1:32:26y'all's data on what the those

1:32:28municipalities that y'all have approved

1:32:31what their

1:32:33annually getting to you guys through

1:32:36that you said it's $20.

1:32:38Can we get that data of what they're

1:32:40providing?

1:32:41>> Yeah, can

1:32:42can you clarify that a little bit?

1:32:43>> Yeah, so like for Mountain Brook,

1:32:46Hoover, Vestavia, Homewood, and

1:32:47Alabaster, can we get the annual like

1:32:50how many annual permits you get? Number

1:32:52of permits or total dollar value,

1:32:54whatever how you want to do it.

1:32:56What what that's generating

1:32:59from since they've passed it.

1:33:01Thank you.

1:33:02>> Thank you.

1:33:02>> Thank you. Thank you very much.

1:33:04Councilors, at this time I appreciate

1:33:06you for your um

1:33:09>> [laughter]

1:33:11>> their

1:33:11dedication to being here this afternoon.

1:33:13We can get a

1:33:14>> Wait, ma'am ma'am President. Um

1:33:17our chair of the Arts Committee wants to

1:33:20make that announcement. The District 8

1:33:22office is seeking applicants for the

1:33:25Library Board and Park and Rec Board.

1:33:28Please send a resume and letter of

1:33:30interest to D8help@birmingham

1:33:35spelled out

1:33:36>> Okay. Thank you very much. Motion and a

1:33:38second to adopt

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