2026-09-30 - Committee of the Whole

00:00Wednesday, September 30th, 2029.

00:03The time is now

00:063:35

00:07p.m.

00:09I call to order the special call

00:11committee of the whole administration

00:13and government affairs committee meeting

00:16for the Birmingham City Council. At this

00:18time, councilors, um you do have your

00:20handouts in front of you. And our first

00:23order of business is approval of the

00:26minutes of our previous meeting of July

00:2829th, 2026. Do I have a motion in the

00:32second?

00:32>> So move.

00:33>> Second.

00:34>> All right. Any questions regarding the

00:35agenda? All those in favor, please say

00:38I.

00:40>> Opposed. The approval of the minutes of

00:42July 29th, 2026

00:45are approved. Our first item this

00:47afternoon, we have three items. And our

00:49first item this afternoon is a

00:51discussion on the 2027 legislative

00:55agenda. We will have Josh Coleman who is

00:58the director office of public affairs

01:00and Alyssa Thomas our policy analyst for

01:03government affairs out of the office of

01:05public affairs. And so they'll please

01:07come forward and I believe we also have

01:09Susan Kennedy with them. And um we're

01:11very excited about this presentation

01:13this afternoon. I do just want to sort

01:15of lead in and tell you I was with some

01:18members of our legislative delegation

01:19yesterday and they're very excited at

01:22the um the way that we have moved

01:24forward with this particular agenda and

01:26our preparation for it for next year.

01:28So, I'll go ahead and let you both lead

01:30us. Thank you.

01:31>> Absolutely. Thank you, Madam President

01:32and Council. My name is Josh Coleman. I

01:34serve as director of public affairs for

01:36the mayor's office.

01:39>> And I'm Melissa Thomas. a service policy

01:41analyst for governmental affairs in the

01:43mayor's office of public affairs.

01:46>> And thank you, thank you for that

01:48feedback. We've taken a more proactive

01:50approach to legislation and it I think

01:52you saw that last year with some of the

01:54success that we had due in large part to

01:56the council and the narrative that we

01:58shaped around neighborhood

01:59revitalization. This agenda that's

02:01before you is also large in part thanks

02:04to all of the departments who submitted

02:05items and the counselors who submitted

02:07items and worked through this with us.

02:09So, it's great that it's a collaborative

02:11effort starting back at the airport with

02:13our reception that we had with the

02:15council and the legislators just getting

02:16to know each other better. I think this

02:18relationship piece is very important as

02:20we move forward. So, this same agenda

02:23reflects that neighborhood

02:24revitalization with some enhanced public

02:26safety measures and we're just excited

02:28to walk that through very briefly with

02:30you and then entertain any questions

02:32that you may have.

02:33>> Thank you.

02:35>> Thank you, Josh. So, for our proposed uh

02:392027 legislative agenda, we do have the

02:41following items. There's a junk nuisance

02:44abatement um proposal, which would give

02:47Birmingham clearer authority to address

02:49abandoned junk and debris on private

02:51property. Um this way, the city would be

02:54able to remove the nuisance and place

02:55the costs on the responsible property

02:57owner rather than taxpayers. Um, we

03:00also, just rolling into the next item,

03:02we have a proposed blight tax and

03:04blighted property registration, which

03:06actually came from councelor Woods. Um,

03:08this would create stronger

03:10accountability for absentee owners who

03:12allow properties to remain blighted. It

03:14would allow a registration requirement.

03:17Um, and it's just another angle to

03:19address and remove blight from our

03:20neighborhoods. For the Birmingham

03:22Housing Trust Fund, we did have this on

03:24our previous legislative agenda. Um but

03:27this would give Birmingham specific

03:29authority to establish um the funding

03:31for a housing trust fund and just again

03:34creating another tool to support the

03:36development and preservation of safe

03:38affordable housing. Um item four on your

03:41list is the Alabama Land Bank Act

03:43amendment. This would strengthen the

03:45land bank's ability to acquire tax

03:47delinquent properties more quickly which

03:49they can then consider programmatic uses

03:52for. Um it also provides flexibility for

03:54multi-jurisdictional land banks. Um we

03:57would also like to streamline weed

04:00abatement and repeat nuisance abatement.

04:02So this would simplify a process that

04:05currently um requires repeated city

04:07action on nuisance properties. Um so

04:10this would just simplify that and allow

04:12the council to authorize a bas abatement

04:15in one action. Excuse me. It also would

04:17create an abbreviated enforcement

04:19process for repeat offenders, but it

04:21would still preserve um notice and due

04:23process. So, item six, administrative

04:26inspection warrants. This would be

04:28strictly for inspectors to be able to

04:30determine code compliance. It does not

04:33replace a criminal search warrant. Um

04:35but it would give code enforcement a

04:37judicial process to obtain access when

04:39an owner may may not consent um to

04:42inspection. Uh we also have a proposed

04:45municipal grant programs act which would

04:48address restrictions that can prevent

04:50otherwise qualified municipal employees

04:53from participating in our programs. Um

04:56and so the goal really is just for this

04:58to allow those employees to participate

05:00where appropriate. Um we have a

05:02historical tax credit renewal. This

05:05would extend Alabama's historic tax

05:07credit from next year to 2032. Uh it

05:11would also increase the annual cap and

05:15infrastructure data immunity is proposed

05:18to protect municipalities from

05:20additional liability simply because

05:22infrastructure assessments have

05:24identified needed repairs. Um this

05:26protection would apply when the city

05:28already has an actively funded program

05:31addressing those deficiencies.

05:33Um item 10 is a joint um effort between

05:37our unhoused strategies and our office

05:40of um OCSI uh community mental health

05:44and homelessness/behavioral

05:46health for first responders. And so it

05:49would seek a statewide coordinated

05:51response to behavioral health and

05:53homelessness instead of leaving local

05:55governments to address these challenges

05:56alone. It would also bring agencies

05:59together and provide state funding for

06:01these services such as uh mobile crisis

06:04response um or street medicine.

06:06There's also a proposed bouncer

06:09licensing item. It would establish

06:12licensing or training requirements for

06:14bouncers at alcohol license

06:16establishments. It's intended to create

06:18clear professional and safety standards

06:20in these roles. Um and it has been

06:24proposed by our office of the city

06:25attorney. And then we also finally have

06:28a tree inventory uh/municipal liability

06:32which the inventory would identify trees

06:35and it would help guide maintenance and

06:37future planning but it would not

06:39constitute a health assessment of every

06:41tree. Um but it would allow Birmingham

06:44to develop a useful citywide tree

06:46inventory without unintentionally

06:48creating additional liability just by

06:51collecting the data. So, this is fairly

06:53similar to the liability exemption

06:55that's being asked um with the

06:57infrastructure immunity. So, I just

06:59wanted to give a quick little rundown of

07:01what we're proposing.

07:03Any questions?

07:05>> Thank Thank you very much, counselors.

07:08Any questions? Again, this is um giving

07:11us an opportunity to see get a brief

07:15summary of these items and um looking at

07:18what we're sort of targeting in this

07:21particular uh agenda. Dr. O'Quinn.

07:25>> Yes. Uh this is a very robust list. Um

07:32and and everything, you know, that I'm

07:35seeing here is important.

07:39Um

07:42there is one thing that I would like the

07:46the council to and the mayor to consider

07:50including um

07:53and this is not the first time that I've

07:55u brought this up but um for many years

07:59it has bothered me that um our

08:05parks and recreation uh arrangement

08:09um in the city is quite bizarre. Um and

08:14in that uh you know our park system is

08:18not under the direct management and

08:21control of the mayor's office. Um, so,

08:25uh, and I understand, you know, that

08:28there's some

08:30legacy issues for why the current system

08:36exists the way that it does. Um, but,

08:39uh, here we are in 2026, you know,

08:44still dealing with, um,

08:49you know, Jim Crow 2.0. Uh so uh

08:56I I think you know for the sake of our

08:59citizens uh we need to seek

09:03some assistance from the state

09:05legislature in amending the enabling

09:09legislation that created the park and

09:11recreation board.

09:13um to

09:16you know make it clear that the mayor's

09:20office uh has clear line of

09:25accountability

09:26um to the director of that department um

09:30and clear oversight of operations of

09:34that department.

09:36Um, you know, this is a I've been on the

09:40council. I'm currently in my third term

09:42and you know, this is a issue that

09:46uh predated me you know many decades um

09:50but has been a frustration to me um

09:55the the entire time that I've been in

09:57office for [snorts] sure. So um

10:01I don't have any proposed legislation as

10:05to you know to suggest to you to uh

10:10exactly what the fix is. U but I think

10:12it's an important issue. Um and you know

10:18I think any one of us could give

10:21numerous of examples of u why this is an

10:25important issue to address.

10:29Thank you.

10:29>> Thank you,

10:34>> counselors. Um, I know that we typically

10:37have a Thank you for bringing that

10:39forward, Dr. O'Quinn. I think it's

10:42important that we know that this is not

10:44our only suggested items and so we could

10:48consider additional items that could be

10:50placed on here. U what we could

10:52entertain counselors is to have this in

10:55writing submit that to government

10:57affairs so that we can just have an

11:00opportunities we've had other

11:01departments or other um any any other

11:05departments that would be affected by

11:06this or processes that we have so that

11:09we could see what exactly we will be

11:11taking to the legislature to move this

11:14forward. Any comments or questions about

11:17moving in that direction?

11:21I I was just like further discussion

11:24with part board themselves and with the

11:26chair

11:27>> I guess

11:29>> I'm'll be honest before we poke the

11:31hornets's nest I want us to be sure

11:33about what direction we're going because

11:36what was it well he already put it out

11:37there but once we put it out there like

11:39if we don't control the narrative it's

11:42it's going we we've seen that with other

11:44boards. I just want to make sure, you

11:46know, we kind of talked about some of

11:48the things we've said, get councelor

11:51Smith's opinion about it. Um, but I do

11:54partially agree that there does need to

11:56be some type of distinction. Um, in

11:59particularly with like the bulls, how we

12:02caught a lot a lot of negative press off

12:06of it and we did what we were supposed

12:08to do or um we give money to parks and

12:12wrecks. um you know they put in the

12:15budget and somehow we kind of still get

12:17the criticism but I was just like a

12:19discussion first

12:21>> before um before we go that way. That's

12:24my only request before we even that we

12:26don't do it this time maybe next time

12:29and just also to see this first year

12:32depending on who's governor

12:34>> like how that is going as well because

12:36that could affect it too. Thank you.

12:39>> Thank you. And I guess also take into

12:41consideration when we go a certain route

12:43with enabling legislation. Tell me again

12:46the scope of that when we talk about

12:49trying to get that agreement within the

12:51legislature. Does that sort of increase

12:54the number of people that we'd have to

12:56touch within the legislature for that

12:58this become an all state type thing or

13:01would this just be with the Jefferson

13:03County delegation? I believe it would be

13:04a state thing, but we would that was

13:06something we would have to research and

13:07I'm assuming uh do a matter intake form

13:10for OCA to to see.

13:13>> Thank you, councelor. Go to councelor

13:16Smith.

13:16>> I was just going to say um yes, I agree

13:18with councelor Smith and there needing

13:20to be a discussion between all parties

13:23involved with parks and wreck, the

13:25administration, the council. Um, and

13:28then also recognizing that we are

13:31entering, we have a new council. Um, we

13:34have a fairly new board and so really

13:36just allowing that time for those

13:37discussions and changes to happen.

13:40>> Okay.

13:41>> Council,

13:42>> thank you, Madam President. Yeah, I just

13:44wanted to second and third the

13:45conversations around around this uh

13:48particularly uh councelor Smith and you

13:51referenced the the pools. I know that

13:52was a major concern in terms of money

13:55that was provided uh but not seeing that

13:57actualized. So having a dialogue around

14:00that and and moving something forward I

14:03think um is a good thing. I also just

14:05want to say looking at this list uh as

14:08some have said this is a very robust

14:11list. We're looking at housing, blighted

14:12properties, tax credits, homelessness

14:16um uh among many other issues uh and

14:19addressing those. Uh, one in particular,

14:21item 12, uh, it speaks to tree

14:24inventory. Uh, I like this. Uh, we've

14:27seen this, um, in some of the

14:29conferences we've been to, uh, about

14:32municipalities, making sure they really

14:34understand and have an inventory around

14:37>> [clears throat]

14:37>> identifying not just the number and the

14:38species and the size of the trees, um,

14:41but also, uh, the assessing the tree

14:44health. And so I did want to ask uh if

14:47there was any ability to move in that

14:49direction uh because I know that is an

14:51issue. We have a lot of uh trees that

14:54are beautiful but also getting older.

14:56They might be affecting uh sidewalks uh

14:59etc. walkability and just wanted to uh

15:02ask that question aloud. Is that

15:04something in terms of the assessing of

15:06the tree health that could be uh

15:08included in the that part of the agenda?

15:12I think

15:14um when you see to the right of each um

15:17draft priority list

15:20and then you see the department uh to

15:22the right.

15:24I think a lot of this is based on not

15:26just feedback but actually listening to

15:28professional staff and or that

15:31department head sharing with us the

15:34assistance that they need.

15:36um accordingly um attached to number 12.

15:39I think this is written as quote not

15:42assess street health um because it's not

15:45necessarily in the wheelhouse of the um

15:50of PEP to actually do that. Not

15:52necessarily they don't want to. I'm not

15:54sure they have the capability to.

15:58>> That's why it was written this way

16:00>> based on what professional staff

16:01submitted to us.

16:02>> I hear that point. Thank you. Um,

16:05understood. If if it's something that

16:07professional staff could uh consider,

16:10that would be appreciated. Uh, again,

16:12because that is an ongoing concern.

16:14Thank you.

16:15>> Thank you,

16:16>> Madam President. I

16:18>> mayor,

16:19>> I think it's important this conversation

16:20you all are having with about park and

16:22wreck.

16:24Just a couple notes um from the

16:26administration without waiting into um

16:30council authority um because we

16:32acknowledge um that the appointment

16:36um of this board related to the

16:38structure that exists by the way the

16:40structure exists outside of the mayor

16:42council act. I'm not sure if you're all

16:44aware of that. This is separate and

16:45apart

16:47>> um this the the current structure

16:50related to parks and rakes as

16:53um Dr. Quinn stated is literally based

16:56is root is 100% rooted in segregation

17:00right we know that related to pools

17:03parks recreation centers etc libraries

17:07as well

17:11the administration wants to be very

17:13clear [clears throat] because we

17:15understand the sensitivity of

17:16appointment power taking away

17:18appointment power etc etc um in whatever

17:22conversation that's being And I'm pretty

17:25convinced that it does not include

17:28taking away having a appointed park

17:30board,

17:32>> right?

17:33>> That in this conversation,

17:35taking away appointment power from the

17:38city council is off the table. It's a

17:41non-starter.

17:43We want to be very clear about that and

17:45I want to state that on the record that

17:47you can have your appointing authority

17:50your appointing authority can remain in

17:53that the council do the majority of you

17:56decide to do something else related to

17:57the dayto-day that's a different

17:59conversation

18:01but this conversation doesn't

18:02necessarily have to include and we would

18:05not want to participate

18:08taking away your appointing authority.

18:11um that does not negate the issues

18:14that the council as individuals or

18:17collectively have related to the park

18:19board.

18:21The administration has frustrations. Our

18:23citizens have frustrations.

18:26I imagine the people who work in park

18:28and rig have frustrations. We all

18:29collectively have frustrations.

18:32Um, but I think it is incumbent upon us

18:34as leaders to not necessarily

18:38um

18:41set them set those frustrations aside

18:43because it's a hard conversation.

18:46Um, so I like the idea of people getting

18:48in the room and hashing it out, but

18:51[snorts] this is what we do know.

18:54um

18:56for any changes if there are changes uh

18:59they have to be councilled one and two

19:02um they have to go through the state. So

19:04I wanted to make that clear

19:07madam president.

19:08>> Thank you. I am glad you did reiterate

19:11um and piggybacking as well on what

19:14councelor Smithman said. I don't want

19:16the takeaway for this discussion to be

19:20uh trying to remove a board or take away

19:24uh what we feel is very important when

19:26it comes to having advisory

19:29role in arts and parks um libraries all

19:35those things. So boards have an

19:37important role in the way that we

19:39administer and we work with um something

19:43as important to us as um how parks mean

19:47to our residents and mean to our

19:49communities. So I am uh glad to know

19:54that or I want us to all feel

19:57collectively that again this is our

19:59role. This is something we would be

20:01doing council driven as far as um so I

20:04wouldn't take it as if we're taking away

20:06our role and responsibility as it

20:08relates to parks. Um and again an

20:12advisory board that's something that

20:14could be definitely be a part of this

20:16process. But I do agree. I don't want

20:19the the whole thing to be today. Oh,

20:21they're trying to take away, you know,

20:23Park and Rick and um we want it to be

20:27something that's really that's um

20:31so important to us that it's we have to

20:33get this right and we have to process in

20:36a way that we not only we feel

20:38comfortable about it, but our residents

20:39feel good and the people that work in

20:41the department and those who manage it.

20:43Um, I'm sure they want to see that we

20:46set up a process that's going to be

20:49positive for all of us. So, we'll take

20:52this into consideration. We'll go into

20:55more detail. Uh, get this on paper and

20:58then we'll start these conversations. Is

21:00there agreement with that? I think I'm

21:02seeing all that. Okay.

21:04>> Yes, Madam Pro.

21:05>> Thank you, Madam President. I just, you

21:08know, echo what you you you guys have

21:10said here. I'm glad to see item 10. All

21:13of these items are super important. I'm

21:15glad to see councelor Gun with the um

21:19the junk nuisance abatement bill. Um all

21:23of these things that affect the

21:26neighborhoods and when we try to, you

21:28know, get things done. I think the most

21:31important thing is a lot of people don't

21:33realize that a lot of this stuff is

21:35driven by laws. And so it is, you know,

21:38a great thing to see, you know, this

21:40robust

21:41um legislative agenda. So Susan, Alyssa,

21:45Josh, thank you all. I'm very excited to

21:48see um Elena and Uche Bean with this

21:52unhoused strategies and office of

21:54community safety initiative um working

21:58collectively

22:00um hand in hand because it's it's

22:02important as we continue to give people

22:05that need assistance and not criminalize

22:08those, you know, that are in situations.

22:11So, I'm really glad to see this. But I

22:12do agree, you know, with you all what

22:15you said about um some discussion needs

22:18to be had. At the end of the day, you

22:21running an outdated park system. And so

22:24it's just no way that when you've had

22:27pools closed 10, 20 years that you can

22:32patch things up um and and not give

22:36people nice amenities. You know, when we

22:39travel and go to different spaces and

22:41places, we we see these things. But, you

22:44know, when you talking to your

22:45constituents, they want these things.

22:48But in order for change to drive, change

22:51is hard.

22:52>> And you got to

22:53>> you got to change the game.

22:55>> That's the only way you're going to move

22:56forward.

22:57>> Thank you, Madam President.

22:59>> Thank you, Madam President. I just have

23:01one thing I just thought about. Um I

23:03don't think I put this in and I don't

23:05know if it's possible um or how we

23:08approach this but squatters

23:10um if we can advocate for that. I think

23:13that's something not only Birmingham

23:15deals with but other cities. I know I I

23:18get calls all the time about squatterers

23:21stealing electricity from residents

23:23houses. is um we've seen that in

23:25district 9 where we had like 40 people

23:28and we got it achieved but there has to

23:30be a quicker process to deal with

23:33squatters and even the long and you know

23:37administration's been great about giving

23:38us the process but I really think that

23:40will help out a lot because it's hard

23:42enough tracking the owner but that's

23:44like one of the few issues I feel like

23:46we can't ever get resolve on so if it's

23:50possible and maybe that's something we

23:51can give our legislative person to

23:53research

23:54law on that. I think that would be a big

23:56win for us if we could address dealing

23:57with squatters.

24:00>> Yeah, absolutely. I think this is the

24:02starting point. We have time. We've kind

24:04of doing this early on purpose so that

24:05we can build out stuff. Those two items

24:07I think is the intake.

24:09>> And I don't mean this time, but even,

24:11you know, just eventually cuz that's

24:13something that's so out of our control.

24:15And sometimes when the police go to

24:16residence, it's like if the owner is not

24:18present, turn it in then. Um, and we've

24:21seen stuff where they've stolen uh

24:24people's I it's a big mess. So, I would

24:26really love for us to look at that if

24:28not this time for next year. Thank you.

24:33>> Thank you very much. So we've have two

24:36other suggested items that we'll go

24:38through a process of just discussion and

24:41thinking of if these two items might be

24:43added to the agenda and what the time

24:45frame would be but that will be with

24:47other discussion and um with these

24:50particular items

24:52are we how far are we is this the first

24:55step do we have any potential sponsors

24:58of any of these items or have we started

25:00those discussions?

25:03We are waiting for your approval before

25:05we go into deep discussions, but we do

25:06have we have sponsors identified who

25:08have carried some of this legislation

25:09before and uh legislators who are

25:12interested in these topics.

25:13>> Perfect. All right, counselors. Well, is

25:16there a readiness at this time to

25:18approve this so that they can begin this

25:20process of seeking out sponsors or do

25:23you need more time to review this or do

25:25you have need more dialogue with our

25:28team?

25:28>> We're talking about these 12 items right

25:30here.

25:30>> Yes.

25:31>> Yes. Okay. Is there readiness to

25:33consider those? Councelor Smithman,

25:35>> I was going to make a motion.

25:36>> Yeah. Thank you. Uh I move to recommend

25:39the legislative agenda.

25:41>> All right. Any questions? All those in

25:44favor, please say I.

25:46>> I. Thank you. The legislative agenda,

25:48the draft is approved. Thank you very

25:52much.

25:53The next item on our agenda

25:57is uh discussion on the per purchase of

26:00a commercial real estate property. And

26:02we'll have Chaz Mitchell, our chief

26:04financial officer and commissioner of

26:06sports and entertainment, and Melissa

26:08Smiley, our chief economic and e

26:11community development officer. Chief

26:13Mitchell,

26:15>> Madame President, good afternoon to you.

26:17>> Yes, sir.

26:18>> Again, good afternoon to the council.

26:19It's good to see everybody this

26:21afternoon.

26:22Um

26:25this will be a um discussion centered

26:28around the acquisition

26:30of a commercial building within our

26:32city's um downtown related to city

26:36operations.

26:38Um I'm going to try to avoid the name of

26:40the um of the of the actual building for

26:43now.

26:46Um, but we also want to be transparent

26:48and have this balance of ask answering

26:50any of your questions you may have

26:52publicly. But, um, if it goes deep into

26:55some things because it's a real estate

26:58transaction, um, we may need a, um,

27:02executive session, but I I commit to you

27:04we're trying to avoid that. So, let me

27:07start with I think

27:10you may not know this, but we've

27:12exceeded our capacity at city hall. Um

27:15the truth is we and its usability truth

27:17is we've um exceeded our capacity of a

27:20lot of our city facilities around the

27:22city of Birmingham

27:24for example municipal court BPD

27:26administration building uh 311 doesn't

27:29have space um the prosecution team

27:32related to the office of the city

27:33attorney code enforcement is literally

27:36not in one not in two but in three

27:38different buildings

27:40and capital projects field team

27:43innovation team and so many other teams.

27:45I'm not naming the unhoused team who

27:47just walked out of here is leashing

27:48space somewhere else. Um so when we say

27:51we're out of space, we've we're out of

27:53space. I think in addition to that, um

27:56because we know we've been out of space

27:57for a significant amount of time, um

28:00Chaz Mitchell and a few other team

28:01members have walked out over the last

28:03few years

28:04um engagement for leasing space in

28:07various commercial buildings around our

28:09city center. um from the old social

28:11security building to the medical forum

28:13building to the um this building to the

28:16right of us. So internally this is not a

28:19new conversation as it relates to

28:20literally being out of space.

28:24Um but um something that's come up which

28:26will be explained in a minute about a

28:28commercial building we can buy as well

28:30under the market value that's listed

28:32under um Jefferson and and from

28:35Jefferson County and we think this would

28:37be a good opportunity to not only

28:39consolidate city services but make those

28:42city services more efficient. Um but we

28:45[clears throat] have to get into that.

28:48Then I want to back out. Uh when you

28:50when you discuss a real estate purchase

28:52of this type of amount of money, I think

28:54the first question will be well what

28:57about our employees or what about

29:00neighborhood services and um efforts for

29:03our residents and our community needs.

29:07Just for perspective, um in the current

29:10operating budget that you all approve

29:11was $19 million for um neighborhood

29:15revitalization, just to name a few. Not

29:18all 19 million, but 12 million for

29:20street paving if you recall, 3 million

29:22for weed abatement, 1.5 for demolition,

29:25half a million for traffic calming, 1.5

29:28plus for critical repair,

29:30um $200,000, $200,000 for facade

29:33improvement and many other things. Um,

29:36in the budget we've been in three

29:38months,

29:39when you add what we did from the

29:41surplus in March, it's another $2

29:43million in sidewalk repair, 1.2 2

29:46million for interstate lighting,

29:48additional um capital money for

29:51improvements to parks, pools, and rec

29:53centers. And of course,

29:57um a half a million dollars for district

29:59priorities at the discretion of

30:01counselors. And so we haven't deviated

30:05from neighborhood needs. We will not

30:07deviate from neighborhood needs. As a

30:10matter of fact, I think it's important

30:11to note that in this fourth quarter, and

30:14you all are aware of this, I continue to

30:16talk to you about going to the market,

30:18going to the bond market. U we've been

30:21wanting to go for at least seven years,

30:24counselors. Um but when we first got

30:28here, I think it's important to note

30:29that um because of our pension issues,

30:32our credit rating was downgraded. So, it

30:34put us in a position not to go. And then

30:37when we finally got our pitching

30:38situation straight, it allowed our

30:40credit rating to go back up. But soon as

30:42it went up, COVID hit, nobody was going

30:45to the market when CO hit.

30:48We got past CO and interest rates got

30:50past interest rates and capital, I mean

30:52construction costs and it was issue

30:54after issue whether it's presidential

30:57elections or local elections. All these

30:59things have affected when we could go to

31:02the market. And as bad as all of that

31:04has been collectively,

31:07the position we have been able to put

31:09ourselves in is from a strength

31:10standpoint is each year we've just been

31:14able to decrease so much debt that we

31:17never added to our books over eight plus

31:19years now going into our ninth year. So

31:22there's an opportunity to borrow a

31:24minimum of $200 million for the needs in

31:27neighborhoods that we we collectively

31:30care about.

31:31The reason that's important because when

31:33you think about our general fund every

31:35year we've known for majority of that

31:37time

31:39more than 70 cent close to 70 cent of

31:42every dollar goes to our employees. So,

31:46our ability to get in here and do the

31:47things we want around parks, recreation

31:50centers, libraries,

31:52um pools, fire stations,

31:56um storm water, um fleet and economic

32:01development. some of these some of these

32:02brown fields, some of these big projects

32:04that we want to actually do in

32:07neighborhood requires us to um go to the

32:10market and actually borrow funds to

32:12support these big projects that we have

32:15not had a chance to do, but you care

32:18about and our residents need.

32:20So, that's coming to you in literally in

32:22this fourth quarter. Um, and we're

32:24excited about it. I'm waiting on um the

32:27finance team to give me the actual

32:29number, but I can tell you the floor

32:31will be um a minimum of $200 million and

32:34that'll allow us to do literally get

32:37that money back into neighborhoods, in

32:40those parks, in those pools, in those

32:42rec centers, in libraries, fire

32:45stations, you name it, etc. And we're

32:48very excited about that.

32:50So, as we think about this,

32:53um, we can do a couple things at the

32:55same time.

32:57One is one of the buildings we know has

32:59real deferred deferred maintenance needs

33:01is city hall. While we're out of space,

33:03it also has deferred maintenance needs.

33:06And when you think about all these other

33:08buildings, older buildings our employees

33:11are in, they also have deferred

33:14maintenance needs. So with a separate

33:16part of funding, we have the opportunity

33:18to purchase this commercial building u

33:20that allow us to consolidate and bring

33:23opportunity for our employees.

33:28Before I bring up a team of people um

33:31and they'll go through a process of

33:33telling you why this building, the

33:34opportunity of this building, the actual

33:37transaction, then funding the funding

33:39source for this actual purchase. I do

33:42wanted to let you know the city of

33:44Birmingham is not the only city in the

33:45state of Alabama having this

33:46conversation. Um the Big 10 mayors, we

33:49were just in Huntsville Sunday and we

33:52were standing and having a meeting in a

33:54new $82 million city hall. They tore

33:57down their old city hall. Dothan is

34:00currently building a $56 million city

34:03city annex building. Um Florence is

34:06planning a $42 million city hall. Helena

34:09recently just completed a $23 million

34:11city hall. Counties are doing the same.

34:14Madison County is building a hund00

34:17million courthouse and Chilson County

34:19recently just opened a $32 million

34:21courthouse. So other cities,

34:23municipalities, counties are having this

34:26conversation about space and

34:29providing city services in a more

34:31efficient way as it relates to

34:33construction. For us, this is not new

34:35construction. What this is is the

34:37opportunity to buy building well well

34:39well well below market value but it will

34:42require multi-million dollars to rehab

34:45this building.

34:47We think over the long term that is a

34:49better cost than five to six buildings

34:52where employees are spread out for

34:54deferred maintenance issues over time.

34:56Having it under one roof long term um

35:00will be a lower cost.

35:02So, what I want to do is bring James

35:04Fowler up uh who will um who will give

35:07more detail about what's in this as we

35:11believe is a potential asset. Then bring

35:13Melissa Smiley up to talk about the

35:16actual um transactional deal and then

35:19Chaz Mitchell to talk about the actual

35:21financial structure.

35:24>> Thank you, Mr. Powell.

35:30>> No.

35:33There you go.

35:34>> There it goes. Okay, great. Um, so

35:39this conversation is ultimately about

35:41long-term stewardship for the city's

35:43resources. We've talked about this week

35:45infrastructure needs across the city's,

35:47you know, vast portfolio of

35:49infrastructure. Our building portfolio

35:52is definitely an important part of our

35:54infrastructure.

35:56And what we have to figure out how to do

35:58if we're going to be long-term

36:00financially sustainable is figure out

36:03how to make strategic adjustments that

36:06place us on that course. And right now

36:07we are not on that course because as we

36:10are with buildings specifically

36:12scattered out across so many different

36:14facilities um we are inefficient

36:17essentially and we are not able to

36:19sustain financially the buildings that

36:22we own. So this is a strategic objective

36:25that has long-term benefits. Um so

36:29specifically, you know, there are

36:32approximately five buildings that we own

36:35that we're considering um as possible

36:39places where we would pull operations

36:40out of and consolidate into this

36:43building. And um if we think about the

36:47efficiencies associated with that,

36:49that's substantial. So instead of

36:52maintaining five roofs, five air

36:55conditioning systems, five external

36:57building envelopes, five sets of

36:59grounds, five sets of security

37:01entrances, five alarm systems, and

37:04consolidating that into one, the the

37:06savings from that can be substantial.

37:09Um, additionally, as the mayor

37:12mentioned, we are out of space within

37:15our current city hall. So anytime we

37:18need to add a team member, if we win a

37:20grant and we need to add a few

37:22employees, we do not have space for

37:24that. So as he mentioned the example of

37:26unhoused services, we're having to lease

37:29space for that team. Um we have

37:32departments uh significant departments

37:34that do not have conference rooms uh

37:36because we have so many people kind of

37:38shoved into different nooks and crannies

37:41around city hall and in our other

37:42buildings.

37:45Additionally,

37:47across an enterprise of our size, at any

37:50given time, we're going to have

37:52buildings that are in some state of

37:55flex. So, meaning if we have air

37:58conditioning systems go down, if we have

38:01roofs leaking, if we have code issues,

38:05um, or some other issue that causes a

38:08displacement, which we will for an

38:10operation of our size, we have nowhere

38:12for those employees to go. So we are

38:14completely out of flexible space. So

38:16that means either employees are u having

38:20to work in substandard conditions or

38:22they're having to work from home which

38:24doesn't always work but we might have to

38:26do that anyway. So we have significant

38:28operational impacts associated with a

38:31lack of space for an enterprise our

38:33size.

38:34Additionally, u the mayor talked about

38:37this as well, but centralizing our

38:39operations just from a management

38:41perspective as opposed to having blocks

38:44of employees scattered across multiple

38:46buildings. We can communicate more

38:49effectively. We can have greater

38:51accountability. We can have greater

38:52coordination proximity if we have

38:56buildings or if we have a coll-located

38:59facility really close by city hall. So

39:02just from an efficiency and

39:03effectiveness standpoint, that's

39:04actually a huge deal. And then lastly,

39:07the age of our buildings across our

39:09portfolio is pretty substantial. So even

39:13though the building that we would be

39:14purchasing is not necessarily a new

39:17building, it would by far be one of the

39:20newest buildings in our portfolio of

39:22buildings. And based on our preliminary

39:26information about the buildings and

39:27early walkthroughs of the buildings, it

39:29seems to be in very good shape. Um,

39:32definitely in very good shape compared

39:34to our existing spaces that we're

39:36maintaining now. Uh, so strategically it

39:40would be a huge upgrade uh beyond where

39:42we're at today. So those are some of the

39:44major points as terms of why

39:46operationally it makes sense and I think

39:48we'll answer more questions at the end.

39:50>> Yes, sir. Uh, Madame President and

39:52council, I think it's important to

39:54actually um talk about the actual real

39:57estate transaction deal and what's

39:59actually before you or what the council

40:02would have to vote on. So, with that, I

40:04would want to bring um Melissa Smiley

40:06up.

40:11>> Good afternoon,

40:12Melissa Smiley from the mayor's office.

40:15So what is going to be before you is a

40:18purchase agreement between the current

40:21owner of the building and the city of

40:23Birmingham. We purchase building all the

40:26time. We buy and sell building. So this

40:29form of agreement is is a standard

40:31purchase agreement. Um we would agree to

40:34the sales price which you're familiar

40:36with that. It's in information that has

40:38been shared with you. Um the way this

40:40deal would work is if the council were

40:43to approve a purchase agreement then we

40:47would be required to apply earnest money

40:49which is 5% of that purchase price and

40:52then we would have a period which is

40:54called due diligence period. And to give

40:56you an idea of what types of things

40:59would be covered in that due diligence

41:00period,

41:02it's during that period that we would

41:04determine what our retrofit cost would

41:08be for occupying the space. We would

41:10also evaluate which teams would be

41:13appropriate for relocation to the

41:15building. Um, that's determining who

41:18will go in and what it would cost to

41:20make the building appropriate for their

41:21use. as well. We would also evaluate

41:26properties that we would be vacating. It

41:28would give us an opportunity to

41:30determine which ones would be the best

41:32to vacate and what we think the market

41:34would bear to dispose of those

41:36buildings, right? And then on top of

41:38that, we would evaluate our overall

41:41consolidation strategy. All of those

41:43things would happen during that 60-day

41:46due diligence period. And then finally,

41:48as we approach the end of that period,

41:50we would have to make a decision. Do we

41:53want to move forward with the sale or we

41:55want to terminate the contract? We have

41:58the right to terminate the contract

42:00during that due diligence period, but

42:02once it expires, we we still have the

42:05right to terminate the contract, but the

42:07earnest money would no longer be

42:09refundable.

42:11So, I just wanted to make sure you

42:12understand that. And can you give them

42:14that timeline of terminate if we don't

42:18go forward with a refund versus

42:20terminate

42:22um terminate disengage but no refund?

42:25>> Yes sir. So when the contract is

42:29approved and executed that's the

42:31effective date of the agreement. From

42:33that period we have 60 days to complete

42:36this due diligence. At any time within

42:39that 60-day period, we can decide this

42:42isn't for us and we would terminate the

42:44agreement and not and be reimbursed our

42:47earnest money. But after that 60-day

42:50period, we retain the right to terminate

42:52the agreement, but we wouldn't be

42:54getting our earnest money back.

42:57So, I think that's what he wanted me to

42:58clarify for you all. Okay? And no, I

43:01didn't make this point earlier, but

43:03during the due diligence period, we will

43:05be evaluating this building from the

43:07bottom to the top. We're going to engage

43:10a professional to help us complete that

43:12evaluation.

43:13>> We have that funding um

43:17that funding exists that doesn't have to

43:19come out of this pot of money. So, we're

43:20able to proceed forward with that um

43:23from the capital projects.

43:27>> Yeah. And so some other standard things

43:30that will happen while this agreement is

43:32pending, we would also have the title

43:35searched because what we want is a we

43:37want a warranty deed that tells us that

43:40we would own this building free and

43:41clear of any other leans, encumbrances,

43:44etc. So we've that's a part of the

43:46request. And we also um like I said can

43:50evaluate if we determine that there are

43:52any uh physical needs for the structure.

43:55We can get an estimate of what those

43:57would be and have a better opportunity

43:59to evaluate our whole our overall

44:01investment in the building. And one

44:04thing we are proposing to do is during

44:06this due diligence period come back to

44:08the council to give you a better

44:11estimate of what the purchase price plus

44:15any retrofitting cost might be.

44:19>> I think it's important to note a couple

44:21things. So one is could we could we tell

44:24them what the current market value is

44:27according to the county records and then

44:28could you tell them what the actual

44:30purchase price is?

44:37Yes, sir. What's being circulated to you

44:39right now is a print out from Jefferson

44:41County, and it shows that the total

44:45assessed market value per the county is

44:48$30.5 million for the building. And what

44:52we're entertaining right now is an $11

44:55million purchase price.

45:05You okay?

45:12>> Okay.

45:18>> We just wanted to provide just some

45:20factual information, ma'am. Just the

45:22facts.

45:24>> Um

45:26I think there's a note also. [snorts] I

45:29think many of us, you know, we there's a

45:31lot of homeowners in this room and

45:33there's non homeowners in this room, but

45:34if you've ever seen a house and whether

45:37it had a for sale sign on it or not, but

45:39let's just say it did have a for sale

45:40sign on it and you fell in love with how

45:43it looked, you say, "Hey, I want to buy

45:46that home. I want to buy that house."

45:48>> Um, you would one put some earnest money

45:52down and then you would go through a

45:53process to make sure the foundation is

45:55good. you would want to make sure that

45:57the plumbing work or the roof was intact

46:00or anything else. You want to make sure

46:02you had clear title, etc., etc. So, I

46:05think something of this magnitude, we're

46:07doing the exact same thing. So, yes,

46:08while we think this is a great

46:10opportunity, while we think it is well

46:12below the actual market value, we need

46:16to do the due diligence period to get in

46:18it to make sure it's actual would be a

46:21good purchase. But then we need to also

46:23assess um what's turnkey

46:27>> versus what's not turnkey. And so in

46:29this building there are um several

46:31floors that are actually turnkey. All we

46:33will need to do right now is literally

46:35move our furniture in. And because you

46:40know we want to move to open floor

46:42plates like a lot of other um

46:45municipalities and cities have done. Um,

46:47and if you've been on the second floor

46:49lately in PEP, um, they've gone from a

46:511970s look to a, you know, modern modern

46:55look of open floor plate of shared

46:57space. So, it works. So, literally

46:59several floors are turnkey right now.

47:02There [snorts] are other floors that are

47:03complete shelves. And so, as we think

47:05about how how much of our public safety

47:09we want to move in here, if that's an

47:11opportunity, we know that would be a

47:12higher cost. So, while we can give you a

47:16range today, the truth is when we get

47:18into this due diligence period and have

47:19professionals look at what actual cost

47:22would be to retrofit, that cost could go

47:25up or that cost could go down. And so,

47:27as you have one number here, I want to I

47:30want to manage expectations. I want to

47:31be overly transparent. That number is

47:34not subject to change. It will change.

47:35We just don't know which way

47:39that number. And that will also be based

47:41on what we decide actually can go in. We

47:46I mean you have a one pager where we

47:48know several departments could be

47:49options but again part of our due

47:52diligence to see what actually works.

47:54Also you all are very aware there are

47:56existing tenants in this building. So it

47:58becomes a matter of if it's not a how do

48:02I say this? If it's not a full public

48:06safety building, then is it if it's is

48:08it general services

48:10and um external tenants or is it

48:15external tenants and some other things?

48:17So, we have some options we'll weigh

48:19during this due diligence periods too

48:21that will also let us ascertain what the

48:24actual cost for retrofitting the

48:26building would be. Anything else?

48:30>> No sir. So what we want to do now is

48:33actually I think it's important to kind

48:35of go into some detail on the actual how

48:38would we pay for such a building because

48:39this is want to be very clear not coming

48:42out of our general fund

48:45um because we're in the middle of a

48:46fiscal year.

48:51>> So Madam President,

48:53>> yes. So what's being passed out is kind

48:55of a rehash of something that the

48:56council already kind of know that was

48:59presented to the council during the

49:01school bond projects that we did a

49:02couple about a month ago. So if you

49:05understand that a portion of the Avalon

49:07tax property tax has a caveat in it that

49:11allows us to pay debt down and issue

49:14debt. Same thing that we did with the

49:16school board um the school fund

49:17projects. So 9.2 into the debt reserve

49:20is the standard for our actual bond debt

49:23reserve for our city for capital

49:25projects only. So as you see that that's

49:28noted in the um the first page and the

49:31second page you will see that the

49:33allocation that we're suggesting to the

49:35council is that part of that 2.9

49:38millillage for the property tax will be

49:41used to pay the debt for this issuance

49:44of this building that that we want to do

49:45for purchase. So what we'll do and it's

49:48the recommendation of the administration

49:49and me as the CFO is to establish a a

49:53debt capital item in the form of a line

49:56of credit that we will establish that we

49:58will it will stay open the entire time

50:00but we will issue debt against it. So

50:03for the purchase of this this building

50:04we will issue the debt and we can e

50:07actually immediately pay it off or pay

50:10as you go and we still have that line of

50:11credit established under this property

50:13tax. So if we wanted to come back and do

50:15something else similar to the school

50:17bond projects, we we have two different

50:19funding sources and two different

50:20indentures that allow us to do things of

50:22this nature for future purposes. So the

50:25really the the main reason for us to do

50:28this is to establish a funding source

50:30that doesn't hurt our line of credit. I

50:33mean our our credit as a city nor let us

50:36go into our general fund and use our

50:37reserves. So this is just a mechanism

50:39that the law has established for us to

50:41allow us to use funds that's already

50:43available for this specific purpose of

50:46establishing that capital project which

50:48is the purchase of a building

50:52>> there a couple

50:55>> so I want to do a recap in the form of

50:57giving some notes and then just

50:59anticipating some questions madam

51:01president I'll yield back to you and

51:02your colleagues and we'll go into some

51:04discussion as deep as you want to go um

51:06relating to the financial impact back in

51:08total investment. Um there's this notion

51:11of total cost versus the purchase price.

51:13Again, we believe the purchase price is

51:14a steal. Um but there there there are

51:17unknown costs related to uh retrofitting

51:21etc.

51:22So we do want to just share that beyond

51:24the acquisition costs um a comprehensive

51:26financial assessment is needed right um

51:29it's just flat out needed to quantify

51:31buildout expenses IT IMS infrastructure

51:35integration customized office

51:36retrofitting

51:38um if some people need furniture

51:40procurement y'all know we got a

51:43y'all know we are we we don't have a

51:45shortage of furniture

51:47>> and immediate deferred maintenance

51:48reserves

51:50um I think you should know that this

51:52financial assessment will be performed

51:53during the 60-day due diligence period.

51:56So before we actually came back to you,

51:58you would know what that actual cost

52:01would be. Um and then the administration

52:04is also we want to provide you an update

52:07within the first 45 days. We don't want

52:08to wait till the 60th date. That's

52:11important. Um but we estimate on the low

52:14end possibly 15 million, but we'll have

52:16a better determination actually during

52:18the due diligence period. There's this

52:20question about who will occupy the

52:22building. Again, I think it's important

52:23to note. Um, for us, this is a point of

52:26flexibility, but we'll have a more

52:28detailed answer when we get into the

52:31building. Um, currently the building is

52:33probably about 50% occupied, right? So,

52:35there's a question and conversation

52:37around keeping existing tenants

52:39>> um versus all the thing all our needs.

52:42Um, will all of our needs take up 65% of

52:45the building or 75% of the building and

52:47do you keep the existing tenants? If

52:49certain departments have certain

52:51sensitivities, can we even have other

52:53tenants? So, all of that is being

52:54discussed, but I want the council to

52:56know we are more than open to all of

52:58that and this will be also deeply

53:02evaluated during the um due diligence

53:04period. And then this is question about

53:07um Chaz has already said it, but it's

53:09worth reiterating what does this do to

53:10our bond market capacity. Um, while we

53:14acknowledge the perception of of this,

53:16again, we have not borrowed any we have

53:19not taken on any debt as a municipality

53:22in nine years, and we've been able to

53:23get a lot of debt off our books. So,

53:26I've already told you once, we are going

53:27to the market related to um doing all

53:31these things for community needs.

53:34>> But we believe this is a mechanism and

53:36structure that we can add on top and

53:38will not affect. But I think it will be

53:40important that on top of what our CFO

53:43has shared that our bunk council

53:45reiterate that um to you in detail so

53:48you can have assurances and be more

53:50confident with actual tangible numbers.

53:53Then there's this notion of carrying

53:55costs and and you know what's the ROI

53:58you know monthly operationals and

53:59maintenance overhead for the for this

54:02facility must be directly benchmark

54:05against the combined I guess one

54:06operating cost and two any any any

54:09inefficiencies of the dispersed

54:11facilities currently occupied by city

54:13staff right so either way there's a cost

54:15there'll be a cost to go into this

54:18building consolidate everything and

54:19retrofit there's also some existing

54:22costs of and inefficiencies we believe

54:25with buildings spread out all over and

54:27even with some of the suggest suggested

54:29things we've done with you that's five

54:30to six current buildings that our

54:32employees are spread out

54:35um and you know I'm going to speed up

54:37here but you think about the coke

54:38building you think about municipal court

54:40you think about where DY is etc are

54:43examples of buildings that are really

54:45outdated u people are stacked on top of

54:48each other and have significant deferred

54:50maintenance issues

54:53And [clears throat] then this, you know,

54:54there's a few things around the whole

54:56portfolio rationalization and asset

54:58management. I do want to get into the

54:59whole notion of the consolidation

55:00strategy.

55:02This there are some questions around

55:04with with hundreds of structures in the

55:05city's inventory. I know that was one of

55:07the questions from the council.

55:11We acknowledge off the top, including

55:12the building we're sitting in right now,

55:15every single one has deferred

55:17maintenance backlog.

55:19Every single one, you name it. HVAC,

55:21roof, plumbing, um

55:25you name it, it exists. So, our

55:28administration operations are are just

55:30spread out across just too many

55:32facilities right now. But based on the

55:35magnitude of the existing needs, we

55:37estimate to bring

55:39what would be the just the five to six

55:41vacant buildings that we will get out of

55:44let's say all of them moved in. um to

55:47bring them all up to where we need today

55:49would be probably on the low end $40

55:51million.

55:52So again, it is going to balance out or

55:55this is going to be the best deal as far

55:57as a steel. And then the interest in

56:00displacing vacant properties. Uh we know

56:03today I will use the municipal court

56:05building and the their annex building as

56:09an example. um we know that um existing

56:14owners around them right now will swoop

56:16in because they reached out to us to say

56:18that we have any interest in selling.

56:20We've also had existing owners um near

56:22the vicinity of the Dys building have

56:25shared the same thing um to says hey

56:28does city have any interest selling by

56:30the way we'll buy this building at

56:31market value and of course there's some

56:33other city facilities that we know um

56:36that people would buy at market value

56:38not below. So, we feel pretty confident

56:40in that.

56:45The question of why now, then I'll yield

56:47the floor and we'll get into all the

56:48other questions you have. The question

56:50um there's a the question of why now. Um

56:54this building that we're referring to

56:56having the conversation about is not on

56:57the market. So, the ability to jump the

57:00curve before there's other interests. Um

57:02it's why we're bringing it to the

57:04council now. um we weren't necessarily

57:07looking for this [clears throat]

57:08opportunity presented itself in the

57:10middle of all these needs and so I know

57:13we've talked a lot but this is a big

57:15purchase this is a big deal I know there

57:16are a lot of questions um and we wanted

57:19to be as transparent as possible and

57:21continue to be transparent there is a

57:24request that you allow the conversation

57:26to continue at minimum starting the due

57:28diligence process

57:31um that's going to put us in a position

57:32to do two things one move the

57:34conversation forward board and two go

57:36deeper on being the best position to

57:38answer your um outstanding questions

57:41that we literally may not have an answer

57:43to today as well as to tell you if this

57:46going to fit and work or not based on

57:48space and based on cost.

57:51Madam President,

57:53>> thank you Mayor Wen. I'll go ahead and

57:55open it up for questions.

57:58>> Procedurally, are we being asked to vote

58:00on something today? And I believe the

58:03question go ahead chief.

58:04>> For today, no, this is actually for

58:06information only. The um what would be

58:08before the council because we have to

58:09notice it as a 772 item. And so probably

58:13by the no the earliest October 20th,

58:16we'll present the entire document to the

58:19council with the funding source.

58:21>> So is the letter of intent being

58:25>> letter of intent?

58:27your mic.

58:30>> Is the letter of intent being signed

58:32without a council vote?

58:34>> We I don't we haven't signed a letter

58:36intent.

58:38>> We haven't signed anything.

58:41>> Yeah, but I'm saying is there going to

58:44be a vote in order to sign the LOI?

58:48>> Yes. Will there be a will the council

58:50take a vote in order that the the mayor

58:53or whoever the administration execute

58:55the LOI? Can you can you say that a

58:58little louder? I couldn't hear.

58:59>> It's asking does the does the council

59:01have to approve a letter of intent

59:02>> for us to move forward on the project as

59:04as noted.

59:05>> Yeah.

59:06>> Yeah. Right now we we don't have any

59:10obligation on either side and in order

59:13for us to have one the council would

59:14have to authorize that.

59:16>> Okay. Thank you.

59:19>> Perfect. Yes. Councelor Smith.

59:21>> Uh yes. I just thought of this question.

59:23If hypothetically,

59:26you know, down the line, this is

59:27approved by council, everything goes

59:29well, what are we going to do with those

59:32five buildings

59:33um that those departments will come from

59:36and go into this one building?

59:38>> Yeah. So,

59:40I can speak to a minimum of two of them

59:42right now. Um I want to speak to the DY

59:44building where we've had outreach.

59:48We had outreach without them knowing we

59:50were even interested in consolidating.

59:52Right. So this outreach is not new. It's

59:55actually relatively old. But the

59:57conversation was Paul's. If you do have

59:59an interest, we would like to get first

1:00:01dibs. By the way, we would like to set

1:00:03we would like to purchase at market. The

1:00:07same exists for the municipal court

1:00:10building and the their at their annex

1:00:12admin building.

1:00:15So that's that's three of the buildings.

1:00:18as an example, uh we have a a potential

1:00:22purchaser that's already come to us not

1:00:23knowing we were having this conversation

1:00:25um that they will they want they they

1:00:28the city have any interest in selling

1:00:30these buildings to us at market value.

1:00:34>> Okay. Um just putting this out there,

1:00:37it's been a while and I don't know how

1:00:39successful cities have been with the

1:00:42unhoused population turning motel and

1:00:45hotels into rooms from the homelessness.

1:00:48So, I don't know if that's a opportunity

1:00:50if we kept a couple of buildings looking

1:00:52into that. Um hopefully I know I don't

1:00:55know the deferred maintenance price, but

1:00:57hopefully we can hold on to some of our

1:00:59assets. Um because I don't want us to

1:01:02sell everything off, but um that was my

1:01:05main question. That was about what we

1:01:06would do with the those buildings. Thank

1:01:08you.

1:01:08>> Yes, ma'am.

1:01:09>> Thank you. I'll go on this side.

1:01:11Councelor McQueen.

1:01:14>> Okay.

1:01:15Um so

1:01:19most I think most of my questions

1:01:22uh are related to things that would be

1:01:26you know

1:01:28found out during the due diligence

1:01:29period. So

1:01:32um

1:01:34you know I know you don't have answers

1:01:36to most of my questions right now.

1:01:38That's what the due diligence period is

1:01:40for. But I I think another important

1:01:44consideration

1:01:46for uh this particular type of

1:01:51acquisition is that

1:01:55we have um two

1:01:58important um

1:02:01funds for specifically for downtown um

1:02:06that commercial properties [snorts] tax

1:02:08on commercial properties contribute two

1:02:11uh one is the tax in increment finance

1:02:14district and the other is the business

1:02:17improvement district um and the tiff

1:02:22goes towards sidewalks and all sorts of

1:02:25infrastructure um projects.

1:02:28The bid of course goes um to to funding

1:02:33CAP, which is a service that I know a

1:02:38lot of people in downtown appreciate and

1:02:40and really takes a significant load off

1:02:44of our public works department and even

1:02:48police department. Um so

1:02:52if we're going to you know the city as a

1:02:54nonprofit

1:02:56um would not pay the ad balorum that

1:03:00adalor couldn't be assessed for

1:03:04um the portion of the building that we

1:03:07would occupy. Um, so I'm curious to know

1:03:13how us

1:03:16making this acquisition

1:03:18would impact the revenue to those two

1:03:22programs. Um

1:03:25and and and how you know ultimately you

1:03:29know okay does

1:03:32the does the the bid have sufficient

1:03:35funds to m maintain cap services um and

1:03:42you know if not

1:03:45how do we compensate for that um or or

1:03:49do we compensate for that so

1:03:52uh I think that's an important

1:03:54consideration. That's a that's actually

1:03:57really really good question and man

1:04:00we're so honest we don't have an answer

1:04:01for you today on that but I think that's

1:04:04something we'll walk out and literally

1:04:06get with David Fleming simple question

1:04:09what um this building that we're

1:04:12potentially purchase because you tell us

1:04:13what is currently contributing to tiff

1:04:16as well as the bid and then I mean it's

1:04:19sh information with the council on

1:04:22[clears throat] what impact that will

1:04:25We'll move on that right away. I'm I

1:04:27know one of my team members is making a

1:04:28note to

1:04:29>> get that question to David if he hasn't

1:04:31already been texted.

1:04:32>> You sound like

1:04:38already got an answer. It's $300,000.

1:04:41>> Oh, okay.

1:04:42>> $300,000

1:04:44>> on the current occupancy. By the way, I

1:04:47think the current occupancy is only 50%

1:04:50right now. It's not current action is

1:04:52not at 100%.

1:04:54>> Okay. Um

1:04:57so I think the the downtown bid

1:05:00generates I mean the last

1:05:03number I can remember and this is dated.

1:05:06I think the total uh adalorum

1:05:10uh collected

1:05:12for for the bid was just over a million

1:05:16dollars. Um so probably 1.2 2 million

1:05:21total. So $300,000,

1:05:25you know, is a significant chunk. Um, so

1:05:29>> you're saying

1:05:311.2 million total for downtown is one

1:05:34building is 300,000 of that 1.2.

1:05:37>> Yeah. Well, so the 300 is just the

1:05:40actual property taxes that we collect as

1:05:43a individual person, not that's not

1:05:46contributed into the bid because if you

1:05:48know if you're part of the bid, you have

1:05:50to opt into the bid in order to exclude

1:05:54port part of your property taxes into

1:05:55the bid. So the number that the mayor

1:05:58gave is the actual collection of

1:06:00property taxes. Okay.

1:06:02>> For those Yeah. Don't scare me like

1:06:04that, sir.

1:06:06>> Yeah. Yeah, I think the the bid the um

1:06:09the millage for the bid is 1.5 mills or

1:06:14something like that.

1:06:15>> Yeah.

1:06:16>> But to your point, council, I'm sorry,

1:06:17not to cut you off and I think that we

1:06:20have had conversations with David Fleman

1:06:22about including more money in our

1:06:25operating budget for CAPS. So, we can we

1:06:28can circle back into that if that's the

1:06:30conversation you want to have.

1:06:32>> Especially because I know we talked

1:06:33about expanding again.

1:06:35>> Okay.

1:06:36Thank you.

1:06:37>> Thank you. Any other questions?

1:06:40Councelor Smith.

1:06:42>> Yes. So, um I know we have the due

1:06:45diligence period, the 60 days, and

1:06:49I know in that time you'll know about

1:06:51how much it's going to cost to do

1:06:53everything. Um aside from that, do you

1:06:56have any idea of the entire timeline

1:06:59that you have like when you would hope

1:07:00to move in to this building?

1:07:03>> Yeah, I'm [clears throat] sorry. Um,

1:07:05Madam President, to council Smith to

1:07:07your question,

1:07:09I think the

1:07:11general services department

1:07:14um would would be way faster. So, I

1:07:16think on a timeline of 12 months or less

1:07:19that they can move in. The reason I we I

1:07:22mean we we invite the council to tour

1:07:24the the building as well, there are

1:07:25literally certain floors right now

1:07:27turning. So, for example, let's just

1:07:30hypothetically say that there's a

1:07:33there's conversations around um this

1:07:37requires a full plan and this requires

1:07:39time and we want to get it right. Uh

1:07:43well, there's no necessary rush on

1:07:45necessarily removing the existing

1:07:47tenants who may be under contract.

1:07:50And so, let that continue. Um and while

1:07:53some floors um are shells, literally

1:07:56certain floors are turnkey right now. So

1:07:59for some a lot of our general service

1:08:01departments um we would say anywhere

1:08:04from literally 90 days to 12 months. I

1:08:08think if and when we start talking about

1:08:10our public safety u departments and I'll

1:08:13use the municipal court as an example

1:08:15one that's going to take significant

1:08:18time right um one um it's a shell so you

1:08:22have to build out two in building out

1:08:25you go through a whole process

1:08:27um of architectural design u to so many

1:08:32other things before you can actually get

1:08:33to retrofitting

1:08:36um not trying to use vertical

1:08:37construction construction of an existing

1:08:38building but starting construction

1:08:40there's the IMS consideration there's

1:08:42public safety consideration etc

1:08:45um and so um on the the public safety we

1:08:49know two things one it would take way

1:08:51more time anywhere from probably um 3 to

1:08:545 years we also know on the public

1:08:56safety front it would be a higher price

1:09:00um as far as retrofitting than it would

1:09:02be for general services

1:09:04>> so this would be like a multi-phaseed

1:09:06type

1:09:07>> absolutely

1:09:07>> thing. Okay.

1:09:08>> Absolutely.

1:09:09>> All right. And then um I do have a

1:09:11question related to the debt reserve

1:09:13funds that we I guess we have on hand.

1:09:15Are those exclusive to capital projects

1:09:18or can those be used for infrastructure

1:09:20projects and so forth?

1:09:22>> So they have to be validated, but

1:09:23they're mostly for capital projects.

1:09:25Okay.

1:09:25>> That we designate. We we've done this

1:09:27before in a previous budget where we pay

1:09:29for paving out of this uh debt reserve

1:09:31fund. So I want to make sure that we

1:09:34don't go forward kind of like continuing

1:09:36to use this as a mechanism for capital

1:09:37projects because we do need to establish

1:09:39a policy for this fund just so we don't

1:09:41keep dipping and dipping into it and

1:09:43then that hurts our credit rate going

1:09:45forward. So I I think what's before the

1:09:47council just to establish a funding

1:09:49source that we can tap into right now to

1:09:52just go ahead and acquire this building.

1:09:56>> Okay. Thanks.

1:09:59Thank you,

1:10:01councelor PA.

1:10:03>> Thank you, Madam President. Um, couple

1:10:04of questions here. As I'm looking at the

1:10:07total market value of the this building,

1:10:10I'm seeing the appraised value is 3

1:10:11million 3.5 30.5. I just wanted to

1:10:15confirm that's accurate. That was an

1:10:16actual appraisal that was completed

1:10:18>> uh from the county. Yes, sir.

1:10:20>> Okay. And I see that the purchase price

1:10:23uh for the building would be $11 million

1:10:25to city. And my next question is related

1:10:28to the sale of the buildings. It would

1:10:30be helpful to understand if uh other

1:10:33buildings that we end up selling uh for

1:10:36the movement of staff over to this

1:10:37building would offset uh some of this 11

1:10:40million as well or what that anticipated

1:10:43figure from the sale of some of those

1:10:45buildings will be. Whether you have that

1:10:46answer now or later is fine.

1:10:51I would easily say that if everything

1:10:54we've suggested in that one pager

1:10:57that the this memo that we sent to you

1:11:00>> that would be over 11 million. Um but if

1:11:04it's only some then it would not be and

1:11:07so but again that due diligence period

1:11:09will allow uh determine which ones and

1:11:13then what those values are as well. Um

1:11:15we're talking about land and existing

1:11:17facility. Um there's a lot to get into.

1:11:21Uh but we're going to get into that as

1:11:22well to be able to show you that how we

1:11:25recoup how we recoup at minimum the $11

1:11:28million. But we feel pretty confident on

1:11:30this side um that

1:11:34you have ready made people wanting to

1:11:36purchase those. They will purchase at

1:11:39market and it will make up that 11

1:11:41million purchase price.

1:11:44>> Thank you, mayor. U last question. As

1:11:47we're talking about uh leaning into

1:11:49bonds as a source of funding for

1:11:51infrastructure repair, I just uh wanted

1:11:54to make sure I give a shout out to some

1:11:56other very important infrastructure

1:11:59needs. Uh some of those being our

1:12:01gardens, uh Birmingham Botanical

1:12:03Gardens, Birmingham Zoo, and some others

1:12:06as well. So, as we're

1:12:08>> we plan to include we plan to maintain

1:12:14$200 million. Okay.

1:12:16>> Um

1:12:17going to the market that we want to

1:12:19bring to the council in this fourth

1:12:20quarter that starts tomorrow. It's

1:12:23tomorrow.

1:12:24>> Yeah. Fourth quarters tomorrow.

1:12:26>> So we're bringing this information to

1:12:27you in October. We would have preferred

1:12:30to bring them both together, but our

1:12:32adviserss are literally still tweaking

1:12:36see what that max number we can get. And

1:12:40then we look forward to presenting to

1:12:41the council categories. So when we talk

1:12:44about categories, I can without telling

1:12:47you individual projects because all 10

1:12:49of us need to talk about those

1:12:51individual projects. What I can tell you

1:12:53is the categories. One of the categories

1:12:56is facilities and within facilities

1:12:57without a doubt um botanical gardens is

1:13:00one. Um when we talk about parks and

1:13:04wrecks, part of the botanical gardens um

1:13:08is another. And then back to facilities.

1:13:11Um well no the zoo was under that

1:13:14category as well. Um so

1:13:17um BCRI,

1:13:19the zoo, botanical gardens, these are

1:13:23all facilities that are owned by the

1:13:25city of Birmingham. We have to take care

1:13:26of our assets. These facilities have

1:13:29deferred maintenance. No different than

1:13:31city hall or municipal court or the

1:13:33Birmingham Police Department or the fire

1:13:35department that we also own. being in

1:13:38the position to go to the market um

1:13:40allows us to engage in these things at a

1:13:44a higher number and a holistic approach.

1:13:47>> All right. Thank you, mayor. Thank you,

1:13:48Madam President.

1:13:49>> Perfect. Thank you. Any other questions?

1:13:51Council guy.

1:13:53>> Thank you, Madam President. Um during

1:13:55the presentation, I heard that there was

1:13:57mention of deferred maintenance um at a

1:14:00few of our facilities that we have uh

1:14:02employees and team members in. Uh my

1:14:05question is um is there a plan to

1:14:07address deferred maintenance in 710 20th

1:14:11Street North at city hall

1:14:14>> seven this bill?

1:14:15>> Absolutely.

1:14:17Absolutely. I think again

1:14:20under one of the categories of being

1:14:22able to go to the bone market as

1:14:24facilities

1:14:26city hall our existing city hall. We're

1:14:28not for the record we're not going

1:14:29anywhere. this building still exists

1:14:32serving our citizens for our our

1:14:34employees of our 4,000 employees a large

1:14:37contingency are right here um while

1:14:41they're on top of each other and they

1:14:42need additional space for certain

1:14:44departments separate from that there's a

1:14:46significant amount of deferred

1:14:47maintenance needed in this building so

1:14:50it will be a part of what I just named

1:14:53under facilities um with the zoo and the

1:14:57BCRI and uh botanical gardens and our

1:15:03fire stations and so many other places I

1:15:05mean facilities that I'm not naming.

1:15:10Madame President, I do have a

1:15:12correction. Again, um we're not we're

1:15:14patient as the council needs to be in

1:15:16this conversation, but there is a actual

1:15:18procedure that we need. Um

1:15:23one, I think we want to give the seller

1:15:26some confidence. We want to move

1:15:28forward. Now, we got to go through a

1:15:29process. Um, because of 772 and the law

1:15:33of giving notice, I do think, and Chaz

1:15:35is going to correct me if I'm wrong, but

1:15:38I need to have this public conversation

1:15:39that this council's confident

1:15:42um carrying this forward for actual vote

1:15:45that includes a PSA purchase sell

1:15:48agreement for October 20th.

1:15:51That gives us time to one continue to

1:15:53answer your questions and go through a

1:15:55process where we continue to get

1:15:57information but also follow the law um

1:16:00of giving public notice 47721

1:16:04because of existing tenants. so that

1:16:06we're purchasing something that has

1:16:09existing tenants. There's an economic

1:16:10development piece. And so it's not a

1:16:13position of we can just do a PSA and say

1:16:16please vote next Tuesday, October 3rd or

1:16:18October 10th because we actually have to

1:16:20give notice. Um but I think that notice

1:16:22one gives us continued time to any

1:16:25questions you have or any questions we

1:16:27haven't answered yet to continue to go

1:16:28through those.

1:16:30And October 20th doesn't mean we're

1:16:33actually purchasing the building. It

1:16:34allows us you

1:16:37it's the council's blessing and

1:16:38permission to go through the due

1:16:40diligence period.

1:16:42>> Thank you. Glad for that clarification.

1:16:45Councelor Woods.

1:16:47>> Thank you, Madam President. Um

1:16:50yeah, I was

1:16:53about to say I was glad we weren't being

1:16:55asked to vote on anything. Um,

1:16:58but I think one I've been trying to go

1:17:00through this agreement real quick, but

1:17:03uh, attorney Smiley, you kind of

1:17:04mentioned um,

1:17:08uh, walk having a due diligence

1:17:09opportunity to kind of walk away uh, at

1:17:12that 60-day window. You know, it kind of

1:17:14has a asis section in the agreement. Uh,

1:17:18typically when I see asis, it kind of

1:17:21speaks to like it limits your reasons

1:17:23for being able to walk away. But then I

1:17:25think I may see some uh language in the

1:17:28due diligence section that uh may

1:17:32indicate that we could walk away for any

1:17:34reason. And so I want to get some

1:17:37clarity on

1:17:39uh in that due diligence period.

1:17:44Are we constrained at all in terms of

1:17:47reasons that we could walk away from the

1:17:49deal?

1:17:54No, great question. Um, asis, we put

1:17:57ASIS in all of our sales agreements. I

1:18:00don't know if you've noticed it, but

1:18:02that's typically the way sales are done.

1:18:05And that's why we have this due

1:18:07diligence period because we have to

1:18:08satisfy ourselves that we want to

1:18:11proceed with the building. The seller

1:18:13doesn't want to be responsible for

1:18:15things that we don't discover during our

1:18:17due diligence period. And so directly to

1:18:20your question,

1:18:22the surveying, title review, all the

1:18:25mechanical systems, the all the

1:18:27technical stuff that we're going to do,

1:18:29we we have the unfettered right to do

1:18:31those things after we enter a contract.

1:18:35Right now, we can't we can't enter their

1:18:38building and start our inspection

1:18:39process. We won't be able to start that

1:18:42until we agree to enter a contract. So

1:18:45during that 60-day window, if we decide

1:18:48we don't want to move forward, we can

1:18:50terminate this agreement, get walk away,

1:18:52and get our money back.

1:18:54>> But after that,

1:18:56we won't get a refund if we decide to

1:18:59>> um not go forward.

1:19:01>> Yeah, that's what just trying to make

1:19:02sure I'm clear on is that within that

1:19:0560day, we can walk away from the bill

1:19:07for any reason.

1:19:08>> Yes, sir.

1:19:09>> A lot of times that ASIS clause

1:19:11basically. So if the the HBAC system's

1:19:14not working, we can't say uh we don't

1:19:17want to deal do a deal because this is

1:19:19not working because we already had the

1:19:21expectation that it was asis. And so I

1:19:23just want to make sure that uh just from

1:19:26a legal perspective that I'm

1:19:28interpreting because like I said, I see

1:19:30that, but then I also see in this other

1:19:31section, it does

1:19:34potentially indicate that we can walk

1:19:36away for any reason. But I don't like I

1:19:39said, I uh to the mayor's point, this is

1:19:41a

1:19:42significant uh deal. So I don't want

1:19:44>> absolutely

1:19:45>> uh make that assumption. So that is a uh

1:19:49I guess we need to I guess we need to

1:19:51get clarity on that now because if we

1:19:52are going to be uh asked to vote I do

1:19:54want to have clarity there. I think two

1:19:58um and again I don't I don't know that

1:20:01I'm fully up to speed on the latest but

1:20:05typically

1:20:07um you know I think if tenants are being

1:20:11asked to leave a building I think

1:20:12there's typically I think you have to I

1:20:15think it I don't think you can make them

1:20:16and then I think if you do you have to

1:20:18buy out the leases um and so clarity

1:20:20around

1:20:22uh additional cost around you know um

1:20:27tenants leaving the building and what

1:20:29does that look like and how does how is

1:20:31that like governed

1:20:32>> to that point? Um the lease documents

1:20:35themselves will govern how we relate to

1:20:38the tenants and we won't have access to

1:20:41those leases until we agree um to sign

1:20:46this contract.

1:20:49And so that's something that will be

1:20:50evaluated during the due diligence

1:20:52period as well. will have the

1:20:54opportunity to look at the leases,

1:20:56determine, you know, um, how they can be

1:20:58terminated, under what conditions they

1:21:00can be terminated, etc. And that's the

1:21:02information we'll report back to you.

1:21:04>> Right. I think too, um,

1:21:09and if this triggers the need to go in

1:21:12the back and talk, I think we can come

1:21:13back to it. But um

1:21:19the basically the conditions or things

1:21:21we could find that would cause the city

1:21:23to walk away from the deal like

1:21:24understanding,

1:21:26you know, a little bit more about

1:21:31how how much we're willing to invest in

1:21:34this. And so I think that is um because

1:21:36I said you have a lot of kind of unknown

1:21:38just with the general uh build out and

1:21:40the things that we can anticipate

1:21:43uh you know but there may be things that

1:21:45we that we're not able to anticipate and

1:21:47so having some form of

1:21:50uh just feedback on how we how we feel

1:21:53about how we're approaching this.

1:21:55>> Yeah. Madam Madam President I I think

1:21:58look here's the deal.

1:22:01We're going to move light lightning

1:22:03speed on a couple things. One, we need

1:22:06to provide them any any add initial

1:22:08information we have right now on

1:22:11chillers,

1:22:12hback, elevators, etc. Uh Mr. Fowler or

1:22:16Miss Smiley or both of you together can

1:22:18come up and provide that verbally here.

1:22:20But the truth is, let's say that it

1:22:23requires additional information and the

1:22:25foundation integrity is compromised or

1:22:29chillers and elevators aren't working or

1:22:31they're outdated or they're set to be

1:22:32outdated such and such time or anything

1:22:35of that nature. So, the mechanics of the

1:22:38actual existing building,

1:22:41they're cost prohibitive. That's are

1:22:42those are significant red flags that we

1:22:45will determine um under those 60 days,

1:22:48right? And that's important because

1:22:50those will be barriers um that are

1:22:53different than um what's the actual cost

1:22:56to retrofit a certain floor that we can

1:22:58phase in over time for a particular

1:23:00department if that makes any sense.

1:23:03as stated if exist if 50% of the

1:23:06building is currently leased then we

1:23:08know um a significant amount of that

1:23:10building is turnkey right now with the

1:23:11exception of furniture um and IMS and

1:23:16and and retrofitting for general

1:23:19services is different from IMS tech

1:23:22retrofitting for public safety. So these

1:23:25are all things we're considering right

1:23:27of hybrid and options. If you have a

1:23:29building that's majority public safety,

1:23:31I'm telling you, the calls are not going

1:23:33to only be here. Um, but this

1:23:36conversation around how long that takes

1:23:39um versus existing tenants and their

1:23:42existing contracts, I think those

1:23:43timelines will marry each other, if that

1:23:45makes any sense. And in other aspects,

1:23:47if it's general services and existing

1:23:49tenants, that's not only easier turnkey,

1:23:52but that's lower lower cost and that's a

1:23:55faster timeline to move in.

1:23:58In the 60 days, we're doing all of this,

1:24:00but I think it's important as we

1:24:03we don't want to hard sell the council.

1:24:05We want to do this in partnership with

1:24:08you and your buyin is extremely

1:24:10important. So being in a position

1:24:12whether it's 21 days or the first 30

1:24:14days well before the 45 to give you an

1:24:17update and then give you more way more

1:24:19tangible detail update 45day mark we'll

1:24:22be able to tell you hey this is a good

1:24:24move for us we need your continued

1:24:25support or hey this not looking good

1:24:27here's some stuff we found blah blah

1:24:29blah so it's kind of where we are today

1:24:31but we got to get there I need your

1:24:33permission to get there anything you

1:24:36want to

1:24:37>> Yes sir um I just want to preface my

1:24:40statement by saying this. We not only

1:24:43want to respect our ability to evaluate

1:24:47this building, we want to be sensitive

1:24:49to the fact that there are existing

1:24:51businesses that are operating there. And

1:24:54so we're being really cautious about how

1:24:56we discuss what our future plans are. We

1:24:59want to be sent we we're we're balancing

1:25:01our needs against the needs of other

1:25:02businesses. And so as to your point

1:25:05about what improvements are made, you

1:25:07should have received there was a packet

1:25:10of information that was provided by the

1:25:12seller. Um my packet isn't numbered, but

1:25:15I will tell you what the headings say.

1:25:17There's one section that says it's

1:25:19investment highlights and it lists

1:25:23capital improvements that have been made

1:25:25over the last um I would say four years.

1:25:28And it lists I'll just kind of run

1:25:30through this real quickly. Um, bathroom

1:25:32and corridor renovations completed in

1:25:342024, $1.5 million. Lobby renovations in

1:25:392024, 830. Chiller replacements in 2022,

1:25:43that was at half a million. Cooling

1:25:45tower replacements in 2025. 400,000. Um,

1:25:50spec suite buildouts on fourth floor.

1:25:52That was in 2022. Interior elevator cab

1:25:56renovations in 2024.

1:25:59um elevator modernizations in 2022 and

1:26:02white box on the ninth floor in 2022 as

1:26:06well.

1:26:07I think I might have covered this. the

1:26:09chillers. There were two 375 ton

1:26:13chillers installed in 2021.

1:26:16And there was also um let's see, there

1:26:20was a Niagara DD system, which is the

1:26:23building automation system that was

1:26:24installed in 2018, but you'll find that

1:26:27information in the packet that's been

1:26:29shared.

1:26:32>> All right.

1:26:34>> Yeah. So, I mean, I think that's, you

1:26:36know, definitely

1:26:38general concern I think to I think just

1:26:41the idea of um like I know we have

1:26:44people spread out but I I wasn't

1:26:46necessarily uh up on

1:26:50the priority of trying to uh maybe get

1:26:53people to the same place and so I am

1:26:55interested in

1:26:57uh what the benefits are of

1:27:01um

1:27:03bringing people together more so about

1:27:04the proximity to city hall uh you know

1:27:08so

1:27:11you know basically yeah so if there's a

1:27:13building that can meet the need that you

1:27:15know is in a different situation maybe

1:27:17better situation but if you could talk

1:27:20about the benefits you see from just

1:27:22proximity versus I think bringing people

1:27:24together has some value but you know

1:27:28just the I guess the case for the

1:27:29proximity piece. Yeah, I'll use uh one

1:27:32team as a specific example. So, um out

1:27:35at the old Koch building, which is the

1:27:38Koch building that was I don't think it

1:27:40was the original original headquarters,

1:27:41but it was close to the original

1:27:42headquarters. It was their headquarters

1:27:44previously to the one that they're

1:27:45vacating now. That's our building. Um

1:27:47it's over 50% vacant and has significant

1:27:50deferred maintenance needs. But in that

1:27:52building, one of the tenants is um on

1:27:55our end is code enforcement. It would be

1:27:58extremely helpful to have our code

1:28:00enforcement team close by because

1:28:02they're a part of planning, engineering,

1:28:03and permits, which is in this building.

1:28:05There is a tremendous amount of overlap

1:28:07and communication between those two

1:28:09teams. That's just one example. But if

1:28:12we were to talk about any of our public

1:28:14safety officials, the ability to walk

1:28:16between buildings uh to have those

1:28:18meetings, I've had to drive or find

1:28:21rides to get to some of these other

1:28:22buildings. That communication and

1:28:24coordination piece would go a long way.

1:28:26And again, I'll um defer back to this is

1:28:30a on a day-to-day basis, those may seem

1:28:34like really small conveniences, but over

1:28:37a 50-year time period or a hundredyear

1:28:39time period because the city of

1:28:41Birmingham's not going anywhere. Those

1:28:44efficiencies are actually really

1:28:46substantial and provide a huge uh

1:28:48benefit for the public and for just our

1:28:50internal operations. I'll just add

1:28:53anytime on a this is a hybrid of general

1:28:57services and public safety, but anytime

1:28:58you can put uh 311 and code enforcement

1:29:02like in a closer proximity, that's going

1:29:05to be more efficient for all of us to to

1:29:07actually solve the problems that people

1:29:09are calling in about and just uh whether

1:29:12it's dashboards or sharing dashboards or

1:29:14information, just tracking information.

1:29:16Oh man, that's like a game changer. And

1:29:19I would easily say I think public safety

1:29:21is no no u secret to anybody that um

1:29:25we're challenged with our courts. We're

1:29:27challenged with police headquarter. Um

1:29:30we're challenged on the public safety

1:29:31front. So, anytime that you can get

1:29:34public safety

1:29:37um in a a closer proximity

1:29:40um

1:29:41and I've worked in municipal court

1:29:43before, so I can tell you having to make

1:29:45the call then finding getting people you

1:29:47need to court, etc. So, um it's it's all

1:29:51centered around the value of

1:29:52efficiencies, but it also helps with

1:29:54customer service, too. um that uh

1:29:58whether it's permitting, whether it's

1:29:59things of that nature, that type of

1:30:01proximity um being able to uh whether

1:30:05it's park, whether it's being this

1:30:06building um or go to that go to this

1:30:09building um the close proximity actually

1:30:11works. Um,

1:30:14and I will tell you for I know a lot of

1:30:17outfits have their ways, but if we can

1:30:20have our employees under one facility

1:30:22versus five and six, we would jump on in

1:30:25a heartbeat, which is why we're

1:30:26presenting this to you.

1:30:29>> No, I definitely see I think benefit of

1:30:31having people in fewer buildings. Um,

1:30:34but I guess the next piece of that was

1:30:36how important is it for the building to

1:30:38be especially close to city hall? like

1:30:41kind of looked up some cities that

1:30:44uh have like say quoteunquote city hall

1:30:47annexes and you know try to see you know

1:30:51what the proximity is. A lot of times it

1:30:52is really close city hall but there have

1:30:55been some benefits of having a annex in

1:30:58another area that could be a um

1:31:03you know some sort of economic

1:31:04development impact of having facility

1:31:07and and people. But um

1:31:09>> that's a that's a great point. Just for

1:31:11the record, our our offices, city

1:31:14council and mayor's office is part of

1:31:15annex.

1:31:17Like our our current offices were not a

1:31:20part of the original city hall.

1:31:22So we've

1:31:24we annexed this wing is annexed to city

1:31:27hall

1:31:28>> and I think you know we're out of space.

1:31:32>> Yeah. Um, and then I think the next

1:31:34piece is just a

1:31:37having a picture of, you know, current

1:31:39list of basically city assets in terms

1:31:42of property we presently own. Um,

1:31:47and I guess that's kind of a two-part

1:31:49because the next piece of that is is

1:31:51understanding,

1:31:53you know, our either our plan to sell or

1:31:56dis dispose of that property or

1:32:00repurpose or or develop. And and I'm

1:32:03more so talking about uh property with

1:32:06structures on it.

1:32:10council,

1:32:28I'd be the first to tell you we've been

1:32:29challenged in our surplus inventory. Um,

1:32:33in some cases, um, we split inventory

1:32:37for schools, as an example. Apparently,

1:32:39we have a few churches in our inventory.

1:32:41We have a significant amount of

1:32:42commercial buildings in our inventory.

1:32:45Um,

1:32:49the truth is we need to go through a

1:32:51process of what we can offload versus

1:32:53what needs to be torn down versus

1:32:55actually what's attractive to actually

1:32:58sell. Um, you know, if it was up to me,

1:33:01we would sell all of them we can because

1:33:04they're just sitting there. At the exact

1:33:06same time, I hear your colleagues point

1:33:08taking taken very clearly as it relates

1:33:10to um are there buildings u that we

1:33:14could use for unhoused residents. The

1:33:16truth is some of these buildings have

1:33:18been dormant so long.

1:33:21Um some of these buildings sniffing

1:33:24around these buildings have a bestas and

1:33:25all these other things in it. Um, I

1:33:28think if you look at the Shield Center

1:33:31as an example, if anybody's driven by

1:33:32lately, it's a gaping hole in the

1:33:34building. And we thought we would be in

1:33:36a position just to tear it down and then

1:33:37we did an AS a best astus assessment and

1:33:40it came back that it was. And then we

1:33:42thought we can just move straight into

1:33:44remediating that. And then we found out

1:33:46that the school system had dumped all

1:33:48these chairs. I mean, insane pictures if

1:33:50you seen it like stacked up from the

1:33:52floor to the roof in all the rooms. So

1:33:55clearing at first to then do an

1:33:57abatement assessment to then demo a

1:34:00building. You can imagine uh with the

1:34:02assets that exist around the city minus

1:34:05the desk how many are in that position

1:34:07to actually rehab. And so,

1:34:10um, we've had some challenges up and

1:34:13down of trying to identif identify a,

1:34:15um,

1:34:17external partner, um, to, um, offload

1:34:22our asset portfolio. Uh, we've had some

1:34:26starts and stops. We've had some

1:34:27successes with some purchases. I mean, I

1:34:29think since you all have been the

1:34:30council, there's been a couple

1:34:32purchases. I know one over well over a

1:34:34million dollars. Um, [clears throat]

1:34:39We have a list um that this young lady

1:34:42has just provided. Could you explain to

1:34:44them what this list is and then we need

1:34:45to send it to each of the counselors?

1:34:48She only has one copy. So, we're going

1:34:49to email that to you.

1:34:52>> The list that I have is the properties

1:34:54we insure. It's our insurance role of

1:34:57the assets we have.

1:35:01>> So, I imagine some of them are not

1:35:02insured, right? But this list is more

1:35:04we're ensuring these because we think

1:35:06these have more value.

1:35:09>> Yeah. I think just in line with that

1:35:11conversation and I'll um breathe and see

1:35:14if anyone else like Hunter wants to say

1:35:16something but um

1:35:17>> I keep glaring down to the side but uh

1:35:21uh having like a general like I said

1:35:23when we're having these conversations I

1:35:24think it makes a lot of sense to uh

1:35:27whether we're selling those but

1:35:28extracting value out of property we do

1:35:30own as we look to improve the portfolio

1:35:34things like that. um you know but also

1:35:38in this conversation is uh vacating

1:35:41additional buildings that um will kind

1:35:44of be added to that situation.

1:35:48Uh you know so I think at minimum you

1:35:50know I don't see a harm in putting you

1:35:54know for sale signs in front of

1:35:56properties that might be desirable. Um I

1:36:00know a lot and again I think this has

1:36:02been conversation over the years but uh

1:36:04I think IEO has done deals um where

1:36:08they've sold properties but it's it's

1:36:10kind of been you know how did you know

1:36:13it was for sale and things like you know

1:36:14so I think if we probably could generate

1:36:16some revenue to uh you know maybe take

1:36:19on deferred maintenance or other issues.

1:36:22>> But yeah that was the other part of that

1:36:23too is I think you did answer about

1:36:25deferred maintenance. Um,

1:36:30>> good.

1:36:30>> Uh, I got one more thing. Would you want

1:36:31me to let Hunter go ahead?

1:36:32>> Well, no, actually Councelor Smith goes

1:36:34next.

1:36:36>> I'll I'll sure. Okay, Councelor Smith.

1:36:40>> So, I do have two more questions. So,

1:36:42one, I know you mentioned that um this

1:36:44is supposed to consolidate. Does this

1:36:46mean that all of our staff that's in

1:36:48other locations will now be aside from

1:36:50like public works and so forth, everyone

1:36:53that you need to be moved will be under

1:36:56the same roof or we will still have

1:36:57staff that will need to be moved at some

1:36:59point?

1:37:03We believe that this facility is this

1:37:06this potential uh building, commercial

1:37:10building is big enough for

1:37:13a significant amount of needs uh for

1:37:16general service employees and some

1:37:19public safety employees. I'm backing out

1:37:22public works because as you know um

1:37:24public works is similar to our fire

1:37:26stations and our libraries. you know

1:37:29they have to be we want them in

1:37:31community but um majority of these

1:37:33buildings known as the Coke building are

1:37:35currently in our central business

1:37:36district right now. So having with their

1:37:40existing deferred maintenance issues on

1:37:42top of staff um of space being maxed out

1:37:46yes they will all be able to be in this

1:37:48building with probably some existing

1:37:50space left over. So for um city council

1:37:53needs, it's interesting when we were in

1:37:55Huntsville.

1:37:56>> It's pretty amazing. Um um it was pretty

1:37:59amazing facility. Seven floors

1:38:02um and [clears throat] a parking deck

1:38:04attached to it. By the way, we did not

1:38:05mention that there is a there was a

1:38:08large parking deck attached to this

1:38:11facility. Um so

1:38:14that would address a lot of parking

1:38:16concerns that we did not get into. Um

1:38:18but they they had um ample ample space.

1:38:22Um um that doesn't we personally mean

1:38:27want you in this building but I think

1:38:29you all have some additional needs as

1:38:30well that could this building could

1:38:32easily satisfy and solve for as well.

1:38:36>> Okay. And then my second question was um

1:38:38I know you said that you know we've been

1:38:41low on space for quite some time. So if

1:38:45for whatever reason this doesn't work

1:38:47and through the due diligence period,

1:38:49what's the sec what's the plan B or

1:38:51what's the alternative?

1:38:55>> Uh we would probably go into a deep dive

1:38:59on getting actual costs and then finding

1:39:02a funding source um for all these

1:39:04scattered buildings. The truth is

1:39:11our first option everybody was to lease

1:39:13space. So this is the second option.

1:39:18Um for years we have been trying to

1:39:21trying to get better space. I'm going to

1:39:23just use the municipal court as an

1:39:25example. Y'all we need a new court.

1:39:28Bottom line is well beyond its life

1:39:32lifespan.

1:39:34um literally there is no room for staff

1:39:37and so now they're in this whole

1:39:38building that used to be dorms. So then

1:39:40imagine that building as well.

1:39:43>> As we looked at space, it never made

1:39:45sense and all the offers we got first of

1:39:47all the lease were like ridiculous crazy

1:39:49prices.

1:39:50Um, and then it will be something we

1:39:53didn't own. And then the cost to

1:39:54retrofit something we didn't own just

1:39:57didn't make sense

1:40:00for various buildings, not just um,

1:40:02Haney's building as the old social

1:40:04security. So, this is the second option

1:40:07that um, honestly we were not looking

1:40:09for. Again, it is an opportunity to like

1:40:12jump the curve for a building that

1:40:14hasn't even been public noticed that it

1:40:16is for sale. And so a third option would

1:40:19be to go back to the table for new

1:40:22vertical construction

1:40:24um for public safety facility and or for

1:40:28annex or city hall annex for more

1:40:31general services. Here's what we know

1:40:33about this building that just got this

1:40:34word. This building can this building

1:40:37that um is presented before you can hold

1:40:39up to 1,000 city employees.

1:40:48Okay. Any other questions? Council

1:40:51Williams.

1:40:54to piggy back off what um councelor Wood

1:40:57said and um what our previous colleague

1:41:01Carol Clark would remind us is that um

1:41:06when it comes to unloading

1:41:09um city-owned property obviously the

1:41:12council has to certify that there is no

1:41:15public need for that. I think one thing

1:41:18that we have collectively and not as

1:41:22much our new council members but maybe

1:41:24some former ones even some former ones

1:41:27in the audience have struggled with is

1:41:31having a doing kind of a oneoff

1:41:35when it comes to unloading

1:41:38city- owned property. And one thing that

1:41:41I think would be helpful is for the 10

1:41:44of us to have more of a comprehensive

1:41:47plan

1:41:49about because I because because

1:41:51essentially what this deal does is it

1:41:53creates additional municipal property

1:41:57that they're book that there is [snorts]

1:42:00a public interest in acquiring

1:42:03and um the state code as well as the

1:42:05mayor council act are very clear about

1:42:08you know that is the perview to the

1:42:10council. So, I would like to have more

1:42:12of a comprehensive plan so that we're

1:42:14not doing a oneoff kind of

1:42:18um

1:42:21transaction.

1:42:22>> Yes, sir.

1:42:23>> Thank you.

1:42:24>> Thank you. Councelor Woods, did you want

1:42:28to come back for your additional?

1:42:30>> Uh thank you, Madam President. Um yeah,

1:42:33so I think one just wanted to clarify. I

1:42:35think

1:42:37uh Chaz uh mentioned there there's no

1:42:41debt associated with this deal.

1:42:46>> So well the mechanism is creating debt

1:42:49but we're using current debt proceeds to

1:42:51pay the debt immediately off.

1:42:53>> Okay. So you take out debt and use

1:42:54future uh revenue.

1:42:56>> We're using we're using debt that's

1:42:57already available for use to um to pay

1:43:01the debt off. Like I said, it's the same

1:43:02thing we do with the school bond

1:43:04portions. We create the debt and then we

1:43:07transfer the money from the debt reserve

1:43:08fund to pay off that debt.

1:43:11>> So, it's it it yields a zero.

1:43:14>> Does that have to be done via that

1:43:16mechanism? Can you not you can't go

1:43:17straight to

1:43:18>> you can't you can't take the funds

1:43:19directly out of the fund to pay directly

1:43:22to a a facility. You got to create a

1:43:24debt to pay it off.

1:43:26>> Okay. And so that was kind of another

1:43:29concern that came up was around

1:43:32uh like I said, we've been talking about

1:43:34going to the bond market.

1:43:36Um

1:43:38and I guess I can kind of see it both

1:43:40ways like if you get a

1:43:43an asset that you know is going to have

1:43:46higher value on your books than what you

1:43:48pay for it, it could possibly be a

1:43:50benefit. But um

1:43:53you know what impact I think is taking

1:43:55on debt

1:43:57on paper going to have on

1:44:00our uh opportunity to get the best deal

1:44:02possible at the bond market um

1:44:06in the near future hopefully.

1:44:08>> So this one's different compared to just

1:44:11as the mayor noted doing a $200 million

1:44:14potential note. Um, this is basically

1:44:17using money that's that can only be

1:44:19reserved for a capital project. Um, as

1:44:23we continue to pay off debt, we still

1:44:25collect the adver room every year, every

1:44:26year. And we're still paying off debt.

1:44:28So, as your revenue still increase,

1:44:30you'll create a larger surplus for us to

1:44:32allow to use that money towards

1:44:34something else. Um, so it's it's

1:44:36technically not paying off debt is using

1:44:37the money that we basically paid off

1:44:40already to just pay off new debt.

1:44:43>> Yeah. I'm just saying like is that how

1:44:46you know, the the rating agencies and

1:44:48things interpret that like or they just

1:44:50gonna see it as debt on.

1:44:51>> Yeah, they they won't see it as that for

1:44:52this particular reason because like you

1:44:54know that we're adding an asset to our

1:44:56our um our role. So, we would actually

1:44:59note that in the audit that we procured

1:45:01a building that has a market value much

1:45:04higher than what we procured.

1:45:06>> Yeah. though it does not affect right

1:45:09short answer does not affect

1:45:12um our ability to go for that what the

1:45:15bond that we referred to for all the

1:45:17stuff we want to do around the city nor

1:45:18does it affect our credit or ratings

1:45:21>> yeah as I was talking I thought about

1:45:23the the benefit of adding an asset um

1:45:27but yeah I mean it's a long-term

1:45:29commitment and I don't I think the the

1:45:31concern I have is not necessarily being

1:45:34able to envision the whole uh impact in

1:45:37terms of

1:45:39um I think just looking at it and doing

1:45:42you know back a napkin math

1:45:45you probably it's probably a commitment

1:45:47of 40 to 50 like just depending on what

1:45:50has to happen um and then what what the

1:45:53ripples are um so I think I think you

1:45:58would know I think we will all know that

1:45:59answer and that answer will be shared

1:46:01with the council

1:46:02>> um prior to the council voting on the

1:46:04full ability to move forward work with

1:46:06the actual agreement

1:46:11moving past the earnest interest if that

1:46:12makes sense.

1:46:13>> Yeah. Um like I said, I think

1:46:17I think there's enough time between now

1:46:20and and you targeting October 20th.

1:46:23>> Yes.

1:46:24>> I think there's enough time to to get to

1:46:27Yes. But I think there's a lot of um

1:46:32a lot of information needed. So I think

1:46:34>> Yeah. So that's where we're on the same

1:46:35page again like no no no hard shell

1:46:38today by by

1:46:40with your permission to be on the agenda

1:46:42for October 20th. Um that gives us our

1:46:45own right here our 10 10 due diligence

1:46:48to continue to address your questions to

1:46:51see if you want to allow us right you

1:46:53you still have to allow by vote October

1:46:5520 if you're going to allow us to move

1:46:57forward with the due diligence. Uh

1:46:59that's three weeks. I think that's

1:47:00significant time to continue to de

1:47:02debate, question, concerns,

1:47:06information, etc.

1:47:08>> Yeah.

1:47:09>> Um, like I said, I think we have been um

1:47:13over the years, you know, and I guess

1:47:14your administration gets a lot of

1:47:16credit, but uh we've been very

1:47:17disciplined um and we've we've um

1:47:21maintained ourselves in a very strong

1:47:22financial position. So that's always

1:47:25been the, you know, positive whatever

1:47:27whatever gets criticized. We've always

1:47:29been in one of the strongest financial

1:47:32situations that, you know,

1:47:34>> we have the group has been in.

1:47:36>> And so um, you know, we definitely want

1:47:38to continue that. You know, during I

1:47:41don't think it has anything to do with

1:47:42me, but during my tenure,

1:47:44>> well, I take that back. Forgot I'm a

1:47:46politician has everything. Um,

1:47:48[laughter] but over our tenure,

1:47:50basically the budget has grown every

1:47:51single year. And I don't you know we

1:47:54maybe if it's just hard to say when does

1:47:56that plateau

1:47:57>> um

1:47:58>> that is an important point um counselor

1:48:02but I will tell you what I told Chaz

1:48:04Mitchell literally before the third term

1:48:06started and I think council you just got

1:48:08an

1:48:10I don't mind sharing with you we need to

1:48:12spend money y'all

1:48:15we need to spend money now I want you to

1:48:18set aside this building for example in

1:48:19what I'm

1:48:22There's not a shortage of needs in

1:48:24community.

1:48:27There's not a shortage of issues.

1:48:28There's not a shortage of deferred

1:48:29maintenance. There's not a shortage of

1:48:31the things we want. The zoo, BCRI,

1:48:35streets, storm water, parks, rec

1:48:39centers, libraries, city facilities

1:48:42where our employees are in with deferred

1:48:45maintenance.

1:48:46with what you said. We've put ourselves

1:48:48in such a good position because we've

1:48:50been so disciplined,

1:48:53because we haven't borrowed money,

1:48:54because we've decreased so much debt,

1:48:56because our budget's been able to do

1:48:58this, because we have a great credit

1:49:00rating, and on and on and on.

1:49:04But we also have,

1:49:06you know, a couple mechanisms of pots of

1:49:08money that has allowed us to say, "Hey,

1:49:13we've been good stewards.

1:49:17separate from our ability to go to the

1:49:19market and max out at a certain number

1:49:23over here. We have these other funds

1:49:25where they are flush.

1:49:28We need to put money where our residents

1:49:31needed to be. But I would I will tell

1:49:34you I think other cities are going

1:49:36through this process of new city halls

1:49:39or annexes because those are needs as

1:49:42well. And I think we're in a position

1:49:45with our ratings, with our available

1:49:48cash flow,

1:49:50with our debt decrease at such a

1:49:53significant rate to be able to do both

1:49:55of these things and not harm ourselves

1:49:57and still be flushed with clash. By the

1:49:59way,

1:50:01>> yeah, like I said, I think we're in a

1:50:02good spot. Um, you know, and I had, of

1:50:05course, uh, uh, thoughts around things

1:50:08we could do. I definitely think we need

1:50:10to like increase basically fund for

1:50:15community development IEO uh to be able

1:50:18to just spur on like it's like community

1:50:20development incentivizing

1:50:22you know the private sector to really

1:50:24engage in uh buying up these vacant

1:50:27because we you know dealing with all

1:50:28these vacant houses throughout the city

1:50:30and and what it cost us to uh have to

1:50:32deal with that and maintain. So I think

1:50:35I mean but I do think that's the

1:50:36conversation around like

1:50:39long term, like how do we now that we've

1:50:42built ourselves into the strong

1:50:44position, what's the best long-term

1:50:46output and uh you know, make sure we

1:50:49have all those considerations because

1:50:50like I said, I just wasn't up on the

1:50:54space thing being such a priority and so

1:50:56I'm yeah catching up, but it's it's a

1:50:59it's a few things I'm about to wrap my

1:51:01head around.

1:51:01>> Yes, sir. Madam President, just a quick

1:51:03note to two of his points to our

1:51:04economic development, community

1:51:06development. On the economic development

1:51:07front, I think it's going to be for I

1:51:09think it's going to be important. I gave

1:51:11you one of the categories, for example,

1:51:12was facilities. Another category is

1:51:15parks and recrecks, but another category

1:51:17will be economic development. And the

1:51:19city of Birmingham needs to take the

1:51:22lead. We will have partners in the

1:51:23private sector, but we need to take the

1:51:25lead on identifying these brown fields

1:51:27and getting us in a position where

1:51:29they're shovel ready. We need to be

1:51:31extremely aggressive on if we build it,

1:51:33they'll come. And I think a portion of

1:51:36going to the market needs to be for

1:51:40these sites um that will attract um

1:51:43large employers in various sectors for

1:51:46manufacturing etc etc um biotechnology

1:51:50you name it. On the community

1:51:52development front um you all just

1:51:54approved 12 bills and one of those is

1:51:56centered around that trust fund. So, the

1:51:59ability to get this trust funds allows

1:52:00us not only to get capital off the

1:52:03sideline, but it allows us to take our

1:52:06own funds, more funds, which is what you

1:52:09want, and invest in community

1:52:10development for more vertical

1:52:12construction, infield housing, etc.,

1:52:14etc., single family, detached.

1:52:18>> Yeah. So, I'll say this and pass it back

1:52:20to you, but yeah, I just I think it's a

1:52:22real opportunity, like I said, get the

1:52:24get the uh private sector to really

1:52:26partner on that through using those

1:52:28dollars to incentivize the behavior we

1:52:30want. Um, but thank you for your

1:52:33patience, Madam President. I know

1:52:35>> I know

1:52:37you did great. Thank you so much. We

1:52:38want to get our questions out. Any other

1:52:41questions? counselors

1:52:43feel as if we have some action items

1:52:46that we put before us and um for clarity

1:52:51we do know that our plan is we're not

1:52:54voting today as far as whether to go

1:52:57into the due diligence

1:53:00>> portion or do you want us to vote today?

1:53:03>> It would be grateful to it would be

1:53:05helpful to show the buyer and I mean the

1:53:09seller we're at least moving forward.

1:53:10So, here's an example.

1:53:13Um,

1:53:15with the council's blessing to allow us

1:53:18um to move forward with the vote that

1:53:21this is only a council agenda,

1:53:24>> October 20th, 20th,

1:53:27>> if and when by that time there's

1:53:30unreadiness or we haven't satisfies the

1:53:33council

1:53:35concerns, questions, issues, etc.,

1:53:38then there's no vote that day or it

1:53:40won't we won't have the majority council

1:53:42vote to move forward to engage and begin

1:53:45that due diligence.

1:53:46>> So yes, we will be asking the council to

1:53:48allow this to move forward to October

1:53:5020th and over these three weeks continue

1:53:52this conversation. Um, Madam President,

1:53:55>> yes.

1:53:55>> How did we go from we don't need a vote

1:53:58to I know I I know the answer, but I

1:54:00don't want

1:54:03>> I must be right. I don't want my

1:54:04colleagues It sounds like there are a

1:54:05lot of questions, a lot of answers. I

1:54:08almost realize no recommendation because

1:54:10I don't want us to be rushed. I'm not

1:54:12saying I'm against it. I do think this

1:54:14is needed, but I don't want us to feel

1:54:15rushed into this as well cuz this is a

1:54:20really big deal, honestly. And I just

1:54:23want to make sure, you know, we take our

1:54:25time with this because, you know,

1:54:28there's one thing to look at item

1:54:30knowing you're not going to vote on it

1:54:32and then there's another thing looking

1:54:33at an item when you are voting on it.

1:54:36Um, so I just want everyone to consider

1:54:39that.

1:54:40>> Madam President,

1:54:41>> yes ma'am,

1:54:42>> before you respond to your colleagues

1:54:43questions, I would just offer this to

1:54:45her and I think that's fair. I would

1:54:48simply say if I think you know how we

1:54:51engage the legislative branch of

1:54:53government there's unreadiness. I think

1:54:56you know there's a process to remove

1:54:58something from the agenda on the 20th or

1:55:00whatever that nature to be. We won't we

1:55:02won't put the council in a compromising

1:55:04position.

1:55:09>> Any questions? Madame President, I would

1:55:12like to make a motion to

1:55:16uh advance the purchase sale agreement

1:55:19that we have before us to the full

1:55:22council for consideration on the October

1:55:2520th council agenda.

1:55:28>> Is there a second?

1:55:34>> You understand what it Yeah. I'm I'm

1:55:36trying to So maybe this is more of a

1:55:39technical question, but so we would

1:55:42enter in on a purchase sale agreement

1:55:44instead of a letter of intent on the

1:55:4620th

1:55:48>> and then would there be

1:55:5130-day additional terms attached after

1:55:55the 60 days?

1:55:58on if you advance this to the council

1:56:01agenda on the 20th, you will be voting

1:56:03on a purchase sale agreement on the

1:56:0520th.

1:56:08>> Okay. So, we're going to skip the letter

1:56:09of intent process.

1:56:12>> Yes, sir. Yes, sir.

1:56:23>> Okay.

1:56:25[clears throat] All right.

1:56:26We need a second if we're going to

1:56:28discuss further or have a question.

1:56:32>> Do we have a second?

1:56:33>> I'll second that.

1:56:34>> All right.

1:56:37>> For his motion.

1:56:40>> All those in favor say I.

1:56:43>> I'm going to.

1:56:44>> You want to abstain?

1:56:46>> So we have two abstensions.

1:56:50>> You're no. So let me add up that then.

1:56:54So, we have Let's just do a roll call.

1:56:55Council Vasa,

1:56:58Councelor

1:57:00Smith,

1:57:00>> I'm going to abstain.

1:57:03>> Councelor Williams,

1:57:04>> yes.

1:57:06>> Councelor Tesler

1:57:08Quinn,

1:57:09>> yes.

1:57:11>> Councelor Woods.

1:57:14>> Oh, no.

1:57:15>> Okay.

1:57:17Councelor Guy,

1:57:20Councelor Smith,

1:57:23and I'm a yes. So, we have five yeses,

1:57:27three nos, and one abstension. So, we're

1:57:30moving this forward for consideration on

1:57:32the October 20th

1:57:37agenda. All right. Thank you very much.

1:57:40Thank you, Mayor Whiten. We thank the

1:57:41team for what you've done so far. I

1:57:43would like to have the opportunity that

1:57:46um as we generate questions because I

1:57:48think we've asked a lot of things and

1:57:50looking for some more information and um

1:57:53we get that to administration and that

1:57:56we get the feedback that we've asked for

1:57:58so far. But we'll go back and go through

1:58:00our notes and be sure we're all clear on

1:58:02what those items are. Uh

1:58:04>> yeah, and you you have our commitment

1:58:06for all non-counselors that um we know

1:58:09there's significant amount of work to do

1:58:11over the next three weeks.

1:58:13um prior to October 20th significant

1:58:16council engagement etc. information

1:58:19questions

1:58:20etc.

1:58:21Thank you very much counselors and

1:58:24audience. We do have one more item that

1:58:28we uh have on our agenda and this is the

1:58:31short-term rental ordinance. And as we

1:58:35bring the speakers forward, I believe

1:58:37Julie Bernard, Kim Spurl, and Deputy

1:58:40Chief Bo Hackle,

1:58:44the point that we've reached this

1:58:45afternoon as far as short-term rental, I

1:58:48know we've had multiple committee of the

1:58:50holes, we've had multiple uh planning

1:58:53and zoning meetings. Um today's

1:58:56discussion was centered around a request

1:58:58from the council to look at the

1:59:01enforcement piece of this ordinance and

1:59:05get more generated conversation

1:59:08generated around that and so

1:59:10administration is bringing that

1:59:11information to us this afternoon.

1:59:15>> Madame President, can we keep the

1:59:17conversation to what has changed so

1:59:19we're not starting from the beginning

1:59:21and going through it?

1:59:23>> Yes.

1:59:24And we do have in front of us, not the

1:59:27red line, but we have some blue lines.

1:59:28So, I'll call up staff and um if you'll

1:59:33again keep that in mind that we're not

1:59:35here to discuss and just rehash the

1:59:37entire ordinance because we do have a

1:59:39draft before us. But I think we've got

1:59:41to this point, but we do have some items

1:59:45that have been changed and just wanted

1:59:47to review those. And primarily a lot of

1:59:50that includes this um enforcement matrix

1:59:53matrix

1:59:55and staff in the back. Do you have them

1:59:57prepared the slides that they have

2:00:00brought?

2:00:02>> I do have copies.

2:00:03>> Okay. After last week at C.

2:00:05>> Thank you. You're up. Thank you.

2:00:07>> Okay. If you want copies, I can hand out

2:00:10copies to you guys as well. Somebody get

2:00:12those for us. Thank you.

2:00:15There should be 13. I think

2:00:22so. So, I'm Kim Spril. I serve as the

2:00:24zoning administrator for the city and

2:00:27department of planning, engineering, and

2:00:28permits. Um, did you want to introduce

2:00:31yourself, Julie?

2:00:32>> Thank you.

2:00:34>> Julie Bernard. to serve as assistant

2:00:36city attorney in the office of the city

2:00:38attorney.

2:00:40>> So the PowerPoint does reiterate some of

2:00:43our items that we discussed in March. So

2:00:46we can just kind of go through those um

2:00:49fly through those. I just want to make

2:00:51sure everyone remembers that for

2:00:54consideration for this city code

2:00:57portion,

2:00:58a short-term rental is occupancy for

2:01:01less than 30 consecutive days. Um, a lot

2:01:05of times there's some confusion over how

2:01:07we're defining that. So, I just want to

2:01:09make sure that we're all on the same

2:01:11page in our definition of what a

2:01:13short-term rental is.

2:01:16Um, you guys are well aware of why we

2:01:18need regulations. We currently don't

2:01:20have any. We need the ability to enforce

2:01:23safety standards. We need more

2:01:26enforcement capabilities, which is what

2:01:28we're going to talk about primarily

2:01:29today, as well well as tracking

2:01:32short-term rental locations. I think you

2:01:35guys are aware of all the work that

2:01:37we've conducted to date. Um, we started

2:01:39back in 2024. Um, and we are now almost

2:01:44at the end of 2026. Um, but we have had

2:01:47stakeholder meetings, town hall

2:01:48meetings, and we've had multiple

2:01:50meetings with different departments here

2:01:52at city hall, including one-on- ones

2:01:55with all of the city councilors.

2:01:58Um, so, one thing that we did highlight

2:02:01in March that I think is important to

2:02:03not glaze over is the economic impact

2:02:06that our short-term rentals have had on

2:02:08the city. Um, in 2024 we had over 4

2:02:12million visitors in Jefferson County

2:02:14alone with a 2.57 billion dollar

2:02:17economic impact. Um, and based off the

2:02:21data that we have for future events

2:02:24coming to the city, including NCAA track

2:02:28and field events, my favorite NCAA March

2:02:31Madness, we have the annual ticket

2:02:34Smarter Birmingham Bowl. We have the

2:02:36senior games coming. fees will be coming

2:02:39back next year as well as the

2:02:40Congressional Medal of Honor Society

2:02:42convention.

2:02:44And all of those events were successful

2:02:46in part due to short-term rentals in the

2:02:49city of Birmingham. [snorts]

2:02:51Um, so without a regulatory framework,

2:02:54without the regulations that you guys

2:02:56have before you today, we have limited

2:02:59enforcement tools and visibility into

2:03:01short-term rental activity. You know

2:03:04that our regulations will include a

2:03:07registration and permit requirement.

2:03:09They define operational standards and

2:03:12clear enforcement mechanisms that we're

2:03:14going to discuss with DC boackle in just

2:03:17a moment. So the regulations before you.

2:03:21I just want to highlight some of the

2:03:22main changes. Um this slide goes over

2:03:26the main chunk of what's in there.

2:03:28They're not just the changes, but I do

2:03:31want to add that we did make an

2:03:34adjustment Thursday through Sunday

2:03:36rentals must be a twoight minimum. That

2:03:39is something that we feel like should be

2:03:41non-negotiable,

2:03:43especially when a lot of the criminal

2:03:46activity that we have and the nefarious

2:03:48acts occur over the weekends when there

2:03:51is a one night rental at some of these

2:03:53facilities for parties. And so we feel

2:03:56very strongly that the twoight minimum

2:03:58will take care of that. Um we still have

2:04:00the local responsible party. It was

2:04:03suggested that um the local responsible

2:04:06party be allowed to um once they're

2:04:10contacted that we give them a 30 minute

2:04:12window to arrive on the scene at the

2:04:16short-term rental. The regulations had a

2:04:1810mi radius but it did not have a time

2:04:21frame. Um, and so it was suggested that

2:04:24we give them a 30 minute window to get

2:04:27from their location to the short-term

2:04:30rental if the police or if PEP and code

2:04:34enforcement have to reach out to that

2:04:36local responsible party.

2:04:39Um, as you know, we also um no special

2:04:42events, no parties are allowed at our

2:04:44short-term rentals. We also have um

2:04:47everything that you see on the screen I

2:04:49think we've already talked about

2:04:51including displaying the city approved

2:04:54business license and permit and we

2:04:56didn't talk a great deal about the

2:04:58booklet that we want to require every

2:05:00short-term rental property owner to

2:05:02have. Um, if you've traveled like me to

2:05:05other places and used short-term

2:05:07rentals, the majority of them have a

2:05:10booklet that will have the city license,

2:05:12the city permit, and all of their rules

2:05:15and regulations. And that's something

2:05:17that we feel very strongly about. We

2:05:19want all of our short-term rental

2:05:20operators to have that.

2:05:22>> Can you read it out loud?

2:05:26So, as far as the permit is concerned,

2:05:29there are specific application

2:05:31requirements in section 1223-6

2:05:35for applying for your short-term rental

2:05:37permit. There will be an annual renewal

2:05:40that will be available and in the

2:05:42current regulations, we recommend that

2:05:44January be the renewal month. Um, it

2:05:47just seems to work better for finance

2:05:50and for our department. Um, like I

2:05:52mentioned, the listings must display the

2:05:54approved city permit and their business

2:05:57license. You cannot have a permit

2:05:59without the business license or vice

2:06:01versa. Those two are going to go hand

2:06:03inand together. The information booklet

2:06:06that we just discussed is going to be a

2:06:08requirement as well as occupancy

2:06:10requirements. We limit the number of

2:06:12persons based off the number of bedrooms

2:06:15plus two. So, if you have a five-

2:06:18bedroomedroom home, you cannot have 30

2:06:21people spending the night at the

2:06:23short-term rental. Um, one thing we

2:06:25briefly touched on in March was the HOA

2:06:28statement. Um, we have spoken with some

2:06:31other cities and looked at their

2:06:33language regarding that. If the

2:06:36short-term rental is in a neighborhood

2:06:38that has an HOA, we are asking that they

2:06:42provide us with a written statement that

2:06:44they meet their HOA guidelines.

2:06:48And then we talked, I think before, just

2:06:50to reiterate that we do have a

2:06:52requirement that short-term rentals will

2:06:54need to have liability insurance

2:06:56coverage.

2:06:57And then as far as the operational

2:06:59requirements, I mentioned the local

2:07:01responsible party, the twoight minimum

2:07:04stay, no special events or parties, and

2:07:07our short-term rentals. We also

2:07:10introduced the certification training

2:07:12program. And we have details in the

2:07:15regulations about that program that we

2:07:18would like our operators to participate

2:07:20in and provide us evidence that they did

2:07:23go through one of the educational

2:07:25programs for a host. The city also will

2:07:28be allowed to inspect the short-term

2:07:31rentals if needed with proper

2:07:33notification.

2:07:35We will require that they adhere to all

2:07:37city codes and ordinances and that

2:07:39relates to trash, to noise, to parking

2:07:44and any other applicable codes. We do

2:07:47have we discussed in detail in March the

2:07:50security camera requirements. So, we do

2:07:53have an entire section in the

2:07:55regulations that outline the security

2:07:58cameras that we want them to install on

2:08:01the outside of the facility to monitor

2:08:04the comingings and goings of their

2:08:06tenants. And then it's important that

2:08:09you guys make sure that you understand

2:08:12that we do have revocation procedures

2:08:14that are outlined in the city code. and

2:08:17those revocation procedures. At any time

2:08:20if there is a violent act that occurs on

2:08:24the property, the city council can call

2:08:27that permit in that business license and

2:08:30it can immediately begin the process for

2:08:33revocation.

2:08:36So, a lot of what we want to talk about

2:08:38to give you guys an update tonight is

2:08:41our enforcement strategy. So, I'd like

2:08:44to invite uh DC VOAC to come up. Um,

2:08:48we've been working with him and his team

2:08:51on an enforcement strategy and he has

2:08:54some information that he'd like to

2:08:55share.

2:08:57>> Thank you.

2:08:59>> Hello, council. How are y'all? Um, my

2:09:01name is EAL. I currently serve as the

2:09:03deputy chief over the patrol bureau. So,

2:09:06y'all have some information there in

2:09:08front of you, but I want to dive a

2:09:10little bit more into some facts as it's

2:09:12relating to today right now with the

2:09:15Birmingham Police Department and what

2:09:17we're dealing with currently. So, bear

2:09:20with me a little bit. I'll try to be

2:09:22quick, but I want to just kind of go

2:09:23over a few things that I have.

2:09:26So number one, this data that I'm

2:09:28sharing with you all is just since

2:09:31January 1st, 2026 until September 27th

2:09:36of this year.

2:09:38And when I talk about this, as you know,

2:09:40there are no regulations now currently

2:09:44in the city for these. So, the only way

2:09:47I was able to get this data was when the

2:09:50officers were responding, they were able

2:09:52to get from the either victim or suspect

2:09:56and they said, "Hey, this is a Airbnb,

2:09:58VRB, or pick what name you want to use

2:10:00for said short-term rental." So, in

2:10:02these dates that I just told you, the

2:10:04Birmingham Police Department had

2:10:06responded to 231 calls of service.

2:10:10breaking down your precinct districts.

2:10:13Uh 42% of those calls were in South

2:10:16Precinct,

2:10:18North precinct uh was 26.7,

2:10:22east precinct was at 19% and west

2:10:26precinct was at 11.2.

2:10:29Breaking down the priority of calls,

2:10:31priority one being um one of the

2:10:34highest, we received one call. Priority

2:10:38two we received out of those was 18%.

2:10:43Priority three 14% and a priority four

2:10:46which are the noise complaints, parking,

2:10:49welfare checks and your general

2:10:51disturbance inquiries. We receive 66% of

2:10:54the calls from that.

2:10:57Our hotspot areas are 10th Avenue, 16th

2:11:00Avenue, 20th Street, 15th Street, and

2:11:034th Avenue. Primary zip code 35205,

2:11:0735234,

2:11:08and 35206.

2:11:11911 calls for service, you received a

2:11:14total of 60 calls, which was a little

2:11:17just shy of that. Non-emergency

2:11:20was 44% and officer initiated calls was

2:11:23four.

2:11:25So, another thing that we're looking at

2:11:27is this is our peak time really appeared

2:11:29to be in May and as you've heard,

2:11:33busiest times are Fridays and Saturday

2:11:35nights. So, I want to be clear when I'm

2:11:38speaking to you all. We've got to give

2:11:40these officers

2:11:43the chance to solve the problem. How do

2:11:45we do that? So, a recommendation was

2:11:47brought up that when set person applies

2:11:50for their short-term rental and get the

2:11:53license and fees here with the city,

2:11:56that information is then put into our

2:11:57CAD system. The CAD system is what the

2:12:00police department uses when responding

2:12:02to a call where we can get information

2:12:04about said address upon arrival. And you

2:12:07heard her touch on the I don't want to

2:12:10say the owner, but a responsible party

2:12:12for the said property would have to

2:12:14respond to the scene if requested by law

2:12:16enforcement or PEP or city officials

2:12:18within that 30 minute window. That goes

2:12:21to the fact if we go to want to put

2:12:23somebody out or neighbors are really

2:12:24complaining with the cars, whatever

2:12:26nuisance they may be causing, if it's

2:12:28deemed that we need to put them out, we

2:12:30need to have somebody there that owns

2:12:31that property that can do said thing.

2:12:34The other side of it is when we respond

2:12:36to calls like what I just told you,

2:12:38there's nothing there that we can do.

2:12:40Once we make this report now, moving

2:12:42forward, if this so passes you, then the

2:12:45police can then make the report, send it

2:12:47here to the city, get it over to

2:12:50personnel that it needs to be in the

2:12:52police department, which really would be

2:12:54PEP, and they can go out there ensure

2:12:56that they get licenses to move forward

2:12:58or we can get them before y'all on those

2:13:00stages. So, right now there's just

2:13:02currently nothing. And it's easy to say

2:13:04we want to ban them. I advise you all to

2:13:08look at cities that currently have bans.

2:13:10Pick your whatever short-term rental

2:13:12company you want to use and they're

2:13:14there. So, I'm going to kind of leave it

2:13:17right there and open because I know

2:13:18y'all want to have some questions. So, I

2:13:20don't want to lean too much, but I just

2:13:22want to do that.

2:13:24and Deputy Chief, thank you for being

2:13:25here and not only sharing those stats

2:13:28since January 1 and that there hasn't

2:13:30been an enforcement mechanism, but I

2:13:32know this has been a point

2:13:35um that the council is really pressing

2:13:38um because they're getting questions and

2:13:40concerns from the residents and u we

2:13:43have a re we have a retired dean status

2:13:46council woman here

2:13:49who has always pressed upon us, you

2:13:52know, enforcement enforcement,

2:13:53enforcement, and I know this council

2:13:55shares that.

2:13:58Tell us how it would work moving forward

2:14:00besides sharing information with PEP.

2:14:02They want to they want to know that that

2:14:04911 call is made for any of those

2:14:06levels, level one, two, three, four or

2:14:08or the noise, etc.

2:14:11Um, confidence in BPD's ability to

2:14:14engage. So I think it's important to one

2:14:17you know share with us um capacity and

2:14:21that BPD is fully staffed and

2:14:24>> but certain calls they need to also like

2:14:28manage expectations. So priority one

2:14:30call response time is different from a

2:14:33noise complaint and I think that needs

2:14:36to be publicly shared and then just how

2:14:38weigh in what happens when they actually

2:14:40get to the site location etc etc.

2:14:43>> Right. So, you said a lot, mayor. So,

2:14:45I'm going to try to go down a list.

2:14:46First of all, I want to thank y'all

2:14:47because we are fully we are really fully

2:14:50staffed. Uh, we have a lot of officers.

2:14:52Our response time is tremendous, and I

2:14:55will put us up against any department in

2:14:57the state of Alabama on response times,

2:15:00calls for service, and things of that

2:15:01nature. That being said, to your point,

2:15:05Mr. Mayor, when the officers are getting

2:15:08the calls now that I just gave y'all, I

2:15:10can tell you all that was done was an

2:15:12incident report was made and we asked

2:15:15the people to either turn it down,

2:15:18leave the property, in some cases they

2:15:21may have went to jail.

2:15:23The scent property is, I'm sure, still

2:15:26going. So, if I may, I'm going to turn a

2:15:29little sideways. Y'all may remember the

2:15:32situation with the gas leak down on

2:15:34Southside. Y'all remember that? So, a

2:15:37good example of that is there is a

2:15:40business or there's a building down

2:15:41there that houses multiple

2:15:45short-term rentals. When we went to try

2:15:47to evacuate said building, only one of

2:15:51them were occupied by someone who

2:15:53actually lives there. The rest of them,

2:15:55we could not get in contact with anybody

2:15:58because they were short-term rentals. No

2:16:01one would answer the door. So, we didn't

2:16:02know for sure if people were in there um

2:16:06or not. There was some decisions that

2:16:07were made on the scene to help ensure

2:16:09people were not in there for safety

2:16:10reasons. But what I'm trying to get at

2:16:13is this.

2:16:15If this is allowed to pass and these

2:16:18ordinances are put in place like what's

2:16:20in front of you,

2:16:22the short-term rental would have to have

2:16:25a point of contact for us to know as the

2:16:28city so we can get a hold of them. So

2:16:30when the officer responds there on day

2:16:32one, we address it. If we need to do

2:16:35what we need to do, police action,

2:16:37notify the property owner, whatever,

2:16:39that can be discussed. But if we get

2:16:41multiple calls there, then we know is a

2:16:44doing business with someone is the city.

2:16:46I would think we may not allow them to

2:16:48continue operating that short-term

2:16:50rental because of just the nuisance of

2:16:52police calls that are coming there.

2:16:55So, as of now, there's not a lot the

2:16:58police can do enforcement wise other

2:17:02than tell them to turn the radio down,

2:17:04go drink your alcohol inside, or

2:17:07whatever the case may be. If we go to a

2:17:09house party now

2:17:12and let's say the owner of the house is

2:17:14there or the parents are there, they're

2:17:16having a a birthday party or whatever,

2:17:20we can talk to the owner of the property

2:17:22and we can ask them to do what we need

2:17:24them to do or else this will happen.

2:17:28The way it is now, we just don't have

2:17:30enough teeth. I'm just going to be

2:17:32honest with you. And I hate to say that

2:17:33in front of you all, but it's just we're

2:17:35just going to keep going to the calls,

2:17:37answering the calls, answering the

2:17:38calls, and there's no long-term solution

2:17:41for us. Uh I will tell you, as I just

2:17:44did, y'all can see the rise in calls

2:17:46we're getting now, and it's coming. It's

2:17:49here, and it's just how, you know, we

2:17:52all choose to deal with it.

2:17:54So,

2:17:57>> thank you very much. I know there are

2:18:00some questions. Um, you have council

2:18:03vasa.

2:18:04>> Thank you, madam president. Uh, thank

2:18:06you DC for your update. Few questions

2:18:09for staff, please.

2:18:10>> Uh, I know we've been uh having this

2:18:13conversation for a while now as was

2:18:14referenced for two or three years uh

2:18:17well before this freshman was involved

2:18:19and and I know that residents and the

2:18:21this council body are excited about

2:18:23seeing this move forward. Uh we want to

2:18:25get there. We want to get to the finish

2:18:27line. Of course, we want to make sure

2:18:28it's done right. Now, it was my

2:18:30understanding that we would be looking

2:18:32at and workshopping the ordinance today.

2:18:34I see now that this is actually more of

2:18:36an update on just the enforcement piece.

2:18:39Uh so, I guess my first question is can

2:18:42we can you tell me what the next steps

2:18:45for bringing this ordinance forward will

2:18:47be?

2:18:50>> So, this is the city code update. So,

2:18:54I'm going to defer to attorney Bernard

2:18:56to give us the specifics of how the city

2:18:58code is updated by the council.

2:19:01>> Thanks, Kim.

2:19:02>> Yes. I mean, basically, if the uh

2:19:05committee moves, you know, to move it

2:19:06forward to the agenda, it'll be placed

2:19:08on the agenda for the council to

2:19:09consider. It's an ordinance of permitted

2:19:11operation. So, it would require um two

2:19:14readings or else unanimous consent on

2:19:16its first consideration to be discussed

2:19:19and voted on.

2:19:24a few other questions. Um,

2:19:28so,

2:19:30uh, there are a few things that are

2:19:32written into this red line that I wanted

2:19:34to point out as questions that will

2:19:36definitely require some follow uh,

2:19:39followup and some workshopping. Uh,

2:19:42which we

2:19:44might not need to get done tonight, but

2:19:47at some point we'll need to. And it I'm

2:19:49concerned that if we move this forward

2:19:51out of committee the whole to council

2:19:53that council body is not necessarily the

2:19:56right opportunity to do that

2:19:58workshopping. Uh so my first question is

2:20:01I noticed that there was a the 1% cap

2:20:04and drawing system was removed. Can you

2:20:07can you all speak to why that was

2:20:08removed?

2:20:12So the 1% no one seemed very excited or

2:20:16supported the 1% cap idea. Um so it was

2:20:20removed from the current draft that is

2:20:22before you.

2:20:24>> Thank you Kim. For the record I was

2:20:26excited about it. So I would be one. Uh

2:20:29secondly I noticed that accessory

2:20:31dwelling units were removed from the

2:20:33prohibited structures list.

2:20:36Can y'all talk about that please? That

2:20:38is correct. So, um, as you may or may

2:20:41not know, we are currently working on an

2:20:43ADU ordinance um, for the city regarding

2:20:47accessory dwelling units. Um, and it has

2:20:50been discussed at the town hall meetings

2:20:52that we've had so far that the residents

2:20:56are interested in maintaining ADUs as

2:20:59possible short-term rental units when

2:21:02they own their home and they could rent

2:21:04out the ADU as a short-term rental. Uh,

2:21:07is there data that you have that could

2:21:09back that up in terms of conversations

2:21:11at the town halls?

2:21:12>> Yes, sir. We can there there is some

2:21:14data on the city website for the ADUs.

2:21:18Um, but we can pull the information that

2:21:20we have and make it available.

2:21:22>> Thank you. I'd be curious to see um what

2:21:25conversations and what the numbers were

2:21:27in terms of uh what residents were

2:21:29interested in that because the

2:21:30conversations we've been having um with

2:21:33our residents are that they are not a

2:21:35fan of uh ADUs accessory dwelling units

2:21:39being uh included in short-term rentals.

2:21:42Uh the second uh the next question I

2:21:44have is related more so to about the

2:21:47violation threshold. So, we heard a

2:21:50little bit from DC Boackle uh about

2:21:53this, but can y'all walk me through

2:21:57what actually would trigger a suspension

2:21:59or rev revocation from a permit for a

2:22:03business license? Basically, I mean you

2:22:06could revoke and actually um we can add

2:22:08some language um you know to the effect

2:22:10that they are um you know that it can be

2:22:14revoked for any of the reasons that the

2:22:16council can revoke a business license

2:22:19which is you're violating any regulation

2:22:22which may you know which applies to the

2:22:24business which could apply to business

2:22:26license and could apply to these

2:22:28regulations you know any particular

2:22:30regulation violation of state criminal

2:22:35penal or um municipal ordinances. So,

2:22:38some kind of criminal activity uh

2:22:40happening there. Um having lied on an

2:22:44application um for a permit. That's one

2:22:48thing we're looking at. One the way one

2:22:50city's handled their HOA issue because

2:22:52the city cannot enforce private

2:22:55covenants, which is what HOAs are. So um

2:22:58the way they decided to deal with it was

2:23:01the person has to check they either have

2:23:03an HOA you know that restricts them or

2:23:06they don't

2:23:07>> and then further have to you know

2:23:08certify on their application which is a

2:23:11sworn statement that they understand it

2:23:14and they're in compliance with it. So if

2:23:16we give them the permit and then and

2:23:18they have to notify the HOA that they

2:23:21have it then the um we find out oh nope

2:23:25they violated it. We're not revoking

2:23:27them for violating the HOA. We're

2:23:28revoking them for lying on the permit

2:23:30application. Got it.

2:23:32>> So that's that that would be one thing.

2:23:34And the other um the fourth reason in

2:23:36revoking a business license of any type,

2:23:39it's it's being operated in a manner to

2:23:41cause a public nuisance.

2:23:43>> Thank you, attorney. So existing

2:23:45business revocation uh protocol would

2:23:47would be in place. It was my

2:23:49understanding and I may be

2:23:50misremembering that there was language

2:23:53in either the addendum

2:23:55>> uh document uh relating to this or uh or

2:23:59in in in the in the writing itself

2:24:02originally that there was a a stated

2:24:04revocation process that was something

2:24:06like a two strikes you're out. I think

2:24:08there was a in an original, you know,

2:24:12like two or three drafts back, there was

2:24:14some language to that, but that came out

2:24:15some time ago, there was some language

2:24:17in there at one time about suspending

2:24:19the permit. Just looking at it, it's not

2:24:23very practical. It's not going to be an

2:24:25easy thing to enforce. So, we just

2:24:27decided, you know, the question is

2:24:29revocation or not. Now, we have been

2:24:32discussing with Birmingham police and um

2:24:35you look at a matrix of um you know

2:24:39number of certain types of calls.

2:24:42>> He wants to speak to the matrix.

2:24:43>> Okay. Yeah.

2:24:47I'll be I'll be quick with that matrix

2:24:49because what what we're envisioning is

2:24:52let's say that the said STR has had

2:24:56three noise complaints and this is just

2:24:58an example in a 12-month period that

2:25:00will require them to come up here. Of

2:25:03course, any type of violence, homicide,

2:25:05things like that, it's done. You know

2:25:07what I mean? So, it would be a matrix.

2:25:09So, that also allows the neighborhood to

2:25:12say, "Look, if it's continuing to be a

2:25:13problem, they have a way to call the

2:25:15police. we're going to document it and

2:25:17then you know what the matrix is and we

2:25:19would share the matrix to them as well.

2:25:21But you got to set those guidelines in

2:25:24place for that matrix and I don't mind

2:25:27you know working with a team and coming

2:25:28up with a matrix that's suitable for

2:25:30public safety to give to you all but I

2:25:33think that's the missing key that we

2:25:35have to put in the hole because that way

2:25:37you know what the matrix is the STR

2:25:40company knows what the matrix is and we

2:25:42as the police know and it goes back to

2:25:44that CAD. All right, we've had two calls

2:25:46here. This is what the last calls have

2:25:48been. Okay, this is the third call in

2:25:50the CAT. And then we we notify that way

2:25:53that system. Another thing I forgot to

2:25:56leave out was when if this passes and

2:25:59let's say the new STR is put into place

2:26:01at an address of like 123 Jump Street,

2:26:04the precinct commanders will also get a

2:26:07list monthly showing where they are to

2:26:10be posted in our precincts so that the

2:26:12officers know as well as what's in the

2:26:14CAD. So that's kind of those two things.

2:26:17>> Thank you DC Bole. I do agree that a

2:26:19framework matrix would be helpful. And

2:26:22you know, here's the reality is that

2:26:24there is, for an example, an a

2:26:26short-term rental that is in my

2:26:28neighborhood where I live just a few

2:26:30streets over. We have noise violations

2:26:32all the time. We have folks uh parking

2:26:36everywhere on the street. It's hard to

2:26:37find parking. It just makes life

2:26:39difficult. And you know, I for one, you

2:26:42know, sit in a different seat and have a

2:26:43different experience than maybe the uh

2:26:46you know, you know, some residents who

2:26:47live right adjacent to that property.

2:26:49And they have to deal with that day in

2:26:51and day out. And the reality is that at

2:26:52some point people will begin leaving our

2:26:55city if they continue to be uh unable to

2:26:59live sort of a basic uh you know you

2:27:02know city city experience uh and and

2:27:05have right. we we know of some many

2:27:07residents who have who've moved out or

2:27:10are considering because of that. So

2:27:11that's why I'm expressing that concern.

2:27:12I think making sure that we have that

2:27:15the good players can continue is one

2:27:17thing but if there are bad operators

2:27:20that is something that certainly needs

2:27:21to be addressed. So DC seeing that uh

2:27:24matrix I think would be particularly

2:27:25helpful. Um can you tell me how PEP will

2:27:29identify unpermitted

2:27:32STR listings?

2:27:36Yeah, I I'll I'll let Miss Sproul

2:27:38address it, but basically that is

2:27:40there's the matrix that was that's being

2:27:42shared and that has been what's been

2:27:44discussed is how communications DC Bole

2:27:46touched on a piece of it, but how those

2:27:49communications and he also touched on,

2:27:51you know, when you go to a house, who's

2:27:53the owner? Who's in charge of this

2:27:55party? Okay, there's an owner on site.

2:27:57They got something they can address.

2:27:59Well, we just rented this place. Now

2:28:00maybe they can arrest you or they can

2:28:02address criminal conduct that's

2:28:05committed in their presence but getting

2:28:07to the root of the problem is more

2:28:09difficult because they don't have it. So

2:28:11that's the whole goal of this is having

2:28:14a framework and having information that

2:28:17we can work with and and definitely

2:28:19that's the idea. It should be fair

2:28:23enough that the responsible owners are

2:28:27still, you know, exist and operate and

2:28:30coexist with everybody. Maybe some that

2:28:32are not have not been as responsible or

2:28:35brought up to a standard and hopefully

2:28:37we weed those others out.

2:28:40So the permit system, we will use what

2:28:43we have now, the Asella permitting

2:28:45system. And as soon as the permit um is

2:28:49reviewed and approved and issued, that's

2:28:51going to send an automatic notification

2:28:54to our E911 s uh system operator who is

2:28:58then going to put that information into

2:29:01the CAD system that DC Boacle was

2:29:04referencing so that dispatchers and the

2:29:06police in real time will be able to see

2:29:09this property has an STR permit or this

2:29:12property does not. Now, the properties

2:29:15that come up that do not have STR

2:29:17permits, we expect to receive phone

2:29:20calls. That's how a lot of our

2:29:23complaints are handled right now. Um,

2:29:25neighbors do like to rat each other out.

2:29:27Um, so we will have phone calls. We have

2:29:30a designated phone line that we're going

2:29:32to set up in a designated email that,

2:29:35um, neighbors can report potential STR

2:29:38violations. We also will be using the

2:29:41Granus company. They actually scrape all

2:29:45platforms across the internet and they

2:29:48will report those addresses to us and we

2:29:51will be able to verify if they have a

2:29:54permit in our system or not. And if they

2:29:57do not then we will be able to let

2:29:59business compliance know that they don't

2:30:02have a business license and then our

2:30:04office will be able to go after them for

2:30:07not obtaining a permit.

2:30:09>> Thank you, Miss Swirl. I like that

2:30:10answer. That sounds good. And and it

2:30:12seems very clear in terms of what the

2:30:14protocol is in that scenario. Um so

2:30:18y'all I may have an unpopular opinion on

2:30:20this. Uh you know my thought is that

2:30:25this city is here to serve its

2:30:26residents. And you know what we know is

2:30:29that short-term rentals are a business.

2:30:31They are a lodging activity. I'm not

2:30:33saying they're all bad, but I think they

2:30:36should exist where zoning allows them to

2:30:39exist. they should exist where it makes

2:30:41sense to exist, which in my humble

2:30:43opinion is in uh is in commercial

2:30:46districts, is in areas where there's

2:30:48already high density. Um and uh and and

2:30:52it seems to make very obvious sense that

2:30:54that is where the zoning piece is. And

2:30:56so, as I'm looking through this red

2:30:58line, I also didn't notice any zoning

2:31:01related uh pieces. So, could you all

2:31:04speak to that, please?

2:31:08>> Yes, sir. Um,

2:31:10so I think there's going to be a

2:31:11diversity of views in terms of how to

2:31:13regulate from a zoning perspective. Uh,

2:31:15whether that's a cap, whether that's a

2:31:18spacing requirement or, you know, a

2:31:20lottery system, some other form of that.

2:31:23So there's a few points that I think

2:31:24it's important to note. Um, one, so what

2:31:28Kim and Julie and DC Boacle have laid

2:31:30out are really powerful enforcement and

2:31:32management tools. So that's going to

2:31:34take us from a place where we have very

2:31:35little regulation to a place where we

2:31:37have very strong tools where up to the

2:31:40point where we can potentially revoke

2:31:41somebody's ability to continue having a

2:31:44short-term uh rental option. And so if

2:31:48we were to put in place a spacing

2:31:50requirement or a zoning requirement or a

2:31:52cap, um that comes with some trade-offs

2:31:55such as for the team to administer that.

2:31:58It's a huge administrative burden on the

2:32:01part of the staff to administer a fairly

2:32:03complex system of who gets to have the

2:32:06right to have and operate a short-term

2:32:08rental. Additionally, on the customer

2:32:11side, so from the public's perspective

2:32:13is a very heavily bureaucratic system.

2:32:16So what we've seen from other cities

2:32:18where they've implemented that at least

2:32:20certainly in the first uh periods that

2:32:22they've implemented people are coming

2:32:24and sleeping on the sidewalks overnight

2:32:26to try to get access to a permit uh if

2:32:29there is a limited number of permits

2:32:32which leads to a third significant

2:32:34trade-off in our city. We have a massive

2:32:37backlog of vacant properties. And so if

2:32:41we put in place a bureaucratic system

2:32:43where there's not assurance that

2:32:45somebody a reasonable assurance that

2:32:47somebody would be able to use a property

2:32:49for short-term rental purposes. That

2:32:51undercuts the investment incentive for

2:32:55someone to actually invest in some of

2:32:57that vacant property which we've seen in

2:32:59a lot of neighborhoods benefits from

2:33:01that investment. And so the

2:33:02administrative burden, the bureaucratic

2:33:04burden on the public and then also the

2:33:07undercutting of the investment incentive

2:33:08those are significant. So what I would

2:33:11propose is that we try to approach this

2:33:14at least in two stages. So the first

2:33:16stage is because we don't necess we

2:33:18would all have a different version of

2:33:20what is a perfect ordinance and so not

2:33:22let perfect be the enemy of the good but

2:33:24go ahead and try to put in place these

2:33:26very strong and reasonable

2:33:27recommendations that I think we can all

2:33:28agree on. and then as a second stage if

2:33:31needed then come back and try to put in

2:33:33place a zoning ordinance that you know

2:33:35we could always do that at a later date

2:33:37if needed but right now we have no

2:33:39protections in place.

2:33:41>> Thank you chief. So what I heard from

2:33:42that is sort of the latter part of what

2:33:44you just said that there would be two

2:33:46stages is what y'all are proposing. The

2:33:48first being recommendations that are

2:33:50more sort of operational and regulatory

2:33:52in nature and that zoning would be a

2:33:55later piece.

2:33:57>> Yes sir. And there's another reason for

2:33:58that. That's because the process to

2:34:00adopt a zoning change is much more

2:34:02complex and lengthy than it is to just

2:34:04implement an ordinance change.

2:34:07>> Uh thank you. Uh how far after because

2:34:10that is a significant sort of change in

2:34:12how this approach has been walked

2:34:14through at least since I've been

2:34:15involved. Uh what would that what would

2:34:19the relationship with the timing between

2:34:20those two pieces look like?

2:34:22>> I think that's to be determined. I think

2:34:24that

2:34:26professional staff would do a whole

2:34:29process of research and

2:34:32um I think you know there have to be a

2:34:34draft.

2:34:37Um I think [clears throat] there would

2:34:38be like feedback from community. Um

2:34:42I think we would need to see like where

2:34:44the council is. Um I think

2:34:46administration would probably want to

2:34:48understand and participate in this

2:34:50process as well of making sure we find

2:34:53balance.

2:34:55Um they shared the ordinance with me

2:34:57over the weekend or Monday something of

2:35:00that nature. And what I what I found is

2:35:02that

2:35:04um this professional staff was very

2:35:06serious about getting it right.

2:35:09um when we find ourselves trying to get

2:35:11it right, we realize it will not be the

2:35:14flavor for every single individual

2:35:16counselor, but overall it works for the

2:35:20city. And what I mean by that is right

2:35:23now you have some cities with nothing.

2:35:25And then you have some cities that so

2:35:28extreme in their ordinance or zoning, it

2:35:32literally just drives out any

2:35:33opportunity to have a short-term rental.

2:35:36uh from everything I've read was in trap

2:35:38form presented to y'all, this is very

2:35:41balanced and strikes at the heart of

2:35:44regulating something that's been in our

2:35:45communities in our city literally over a

2:35:47decade, right? And then two, um it gives

2:35:52enforcement a tool and then it triggers

2:35:55even higher for a person to um I think

2:35:59the best way to say this, everything in

2:36:01this weeds out every single bad bad

2:36:04actor. It totally weeds out bad actors,

2:36:07holds them accountable, and takes their

2:36:10ability away to be harmful in that

2:36:12block, that street, in that neighborhood

2:36:14or community. Um, because they can and

2:36:17will lose their license. Um, and there's

2:36:20a escalator, but we also have

2:36:22information we can track. And it's

2:36:24triggered not just by one department

2:36:25from police, but it's also triggered by

2:36:28PEP that allows it to get before a

2:36:30public safety committee or any other

2:36:32committee that has the ability to

2:36:34restrict or revoke a license.

2:36:38Miss Cam, does you want to add anything

2:36:39to his question related to time process

2:36:43in between? Yeah, I could just add as

2:36:46attorney Bernard said, it's a lot

2:36:48quicker um as Chief Aller mentioned to

2:36:51update the city code portion. Um and as

2:36:54you all know, any kind of text changes

2:36:56to the zoning ordinance would require

2:36:59more time, you know, at least 3 to four

2:37:02months and in this case maybe longer to

2:37:04go through that process.

2:37:07>> Thank you, Miss Pearl. Um well, uh I

2:37:10appreciate it. I'll let my colleagues

2:37:12ask some more questions. I'm still

2:37:14processing uh this information. Uh

2:37:17again, it was my understanding that this

2:37:18would not just be an enforcement update,

2:37:20but an ability to workshop uh the

2:37:22ordinance um a bit more. Uh but that

2:37:26said, you know, uh you know, it is no

2:37:29surprise my position. Um, it is clear

2:37:31based on the feedback we we have heard

2:37:33from our residents and not just

2:37:35residents in district 3, but residents

2:37:37in our city that they deal with issues

2:37:39when it comes to short-term rentals.

2:37:41Noise violations and parking is is some

2:37:43blocked driveways. Um, we reduced

2:37:47population uh and a deteriorating of our

2:37:51community fabric. That is those are

2:37:53realities. Uh it's not it's no

2:37:55hyperbole. And so my concern continues

2:37:57to be about the enforcement and it

2:37:59sounds like there's still additional

2:38:00work that needs to to happen uh for more

2:38:03clarity in terms of protocols on that.

2:38:05So uh u thanks for the update so far. I

2:38:09appreciate it. And and and I guess just

2:38:12my last question again would be, you

2:38:14know, as this body is trying to consider

2:38:16what we do in terms of next steps. Uh

2:38:19and forgive me, this might just be my

2:38:20freshman hat on. I'm just trying to

2:38:22understand where where this could go

2:38:25from here. Uh, you know, again,

2:38:27procedurally, Madam President, I don't

2:38:29know, are we voting on this today as it

2:38:31is or is this a continued conversation?

2:38:34Thank you.

2:38:34>> I do have, you know, one comment that I

2:38:36wanted to make. I don't, you know, if

2:38:37you know, you know, usually when you

2:38:38have an ordinance in front of you,

2:38:40there's some, you know, boilerplate at

2:38:41the end that talks about effective date.

2:38:44by law, um, an ordinance, you know,

2:38:47adopted by a city council in Alabama is

2:38:49effective after it's been signed by the

2:38:52mayor and it's published in a newspaper,

2:38:55um, or if the mayor doesn't sign it

2:38:57after 10 days, it's published and it

2:38:59becomes law. Um something that I would

2:39:01recommend with this and if it moves

2:39:03forward you know relatively soon it

2:39:06would be effective within that you know

2:39:08within that period when it's published

2:39:10but that would put an additional caveat

2:39:13on it that you know the provisions you

2:39:16know become you know are required to be

2:39:19met like January 1st. So, as Miss Burl

2:39:22said, you know, we get that January 1st

2:39:24time paid. It gives um people time to

2:39:27get things together to come um and

2:39:30apply. It gives, you know, a little more

2:39:32time to have the, as we said, we've got

2:39:34the matrix in place. We have the things

2:39:37we're going to put in a phone number, a

2:39:40phone line, but get time to get those in

2:39:43place by that date.

2:39:45>> So, just two notes, counselor, madam

2:39:48president, to your colleague. Yes.

2:39:52I apologize.

2:39:54Um, one is basically,

2:39:58you know,

2:40:02his staff is saying, "Hey, people

2:40:04henceforth got to come in and have a

2:40:06business license." And that's January 1.

2:40:09Um what that does is give the staff even

2:40:11additional time over the last quarter of

2:40:13the year to work out any things around

2:40:16this ordinance so things are smooth for

2:40:18them to re receive have a process etc

2:40:22etc um for the first quarter of the new

2:40:25year. Um

2:40:27so I think that's an important note that

2:40:29our um assistant city attorney just

2:40:32shared with us. The other note to your

2:40:34question counselor is um it's in the

2:40:37council's purview um you know for

2:40:41anything comes before CO if there's a

2:40:44person second and majority wants to

2:40:46advance or vice versa if the majority

2:40:49doesn't want to advance it won't but

2:40:50it's on your purview what happens next

2:40:53related to what's before you with the

2:40:55update of city code as relates to the

2:40:57ordinance.

2:40:59>> Thank you. I do think we have some

2:41:00questions. Councelor Oakan.

2:41:03>> Yes. Um so the last time that we

2:41:07discussed this um we

2:41:12you know had a significant concern and

2:41:16um I don't you know I've looked over

2:41:19this u blue line version and um don't

2:41:23see this addressed. We we have an entity

2:41:27in the city of Birmingham that um has

2:41:31well over a hundred STR units. Um I

2:41:36think they're concentrated in buildings,

2:41:39but um you know they they came to the

2:41:42council. I think u President Alexander

2:41:45was on that

2:41:47um Zoom call.

2:41:49>> Yes. Um, and

2:41:52you know, the the one of their biggest

2:41:56concerns was them not having to go

2:41:59through the permitting process for every

2:42:02individual unit. Uh,

2:42:06you know, having that process sort of

2:42:10consolidated. Um

2:42:13certainly at least to buy

2:42:17single properties, you know, if there's

2:42:19their [snorts] units are spread out over

2:42:23multiple buildings, multiple properties,

2:42:25you know, perhaps the properties

2:42:28could be

2:42:30consolidated to one permit. Anyway,

2:42:34I don't see that reflected in this

2:42:36version. Well, there is a concern with

2:42:39that counselor. For one thing, um, this

2:42:42will, you know, having a permit will tie

2:42:44into getting a business license. Um,

2:42:46business license is required based on

2:42:50location. The only exception to that

2:42:52that we have are things that are mobile

2:42:54like food trucks or tow trucks or

2:42:57peddlers or things like that. Um, they

2:43:00have, you know, one license because they

2:43:02just can operate pretty much anywhere in

2:43:04the city.

2:43:04>> So, Julie,

2:43:05>> uh,

2:43:05>> I'm sorry. Attorney Bernard,

2:43:07>> you're fine.

2:43:08>> One, I'm sorry to interrupt, Madam

2:43:10President. Please bear with me.

2:43:13If a franchisee has

2:43:1720 Macdonald in the city limits of

2:43:19Birmingham, do they have to get 20

2:43:20license?

2:43:21>> They would have a license per location

2:43:23would be my understanding. And um you

2:43:26know and that would be an exception may

2:43:28be you know that as you mentioned you

2:43:31may have a building you know that's one

2:43:34address that might have multiple units

2:43:35in it. There might be a way to deal with

2:43:38that that you know that we could you

2:43:40know consider you know that that's you

2:43:43know an application for that address

2:43:45each unit would have to be described in

2:43:47it again to get it in the CAD system.

2:43:50The police need to know what they're

2:43:52dealing with when they get there. Yeah.

2:43:54All I'm saying is is that

2:43:58that situation

2:44:00>> needs to be reflected in the code. You

2:44:03know that we that we don't

2:44:07force, you know, a company that has a

2:44:11building with

2:44:13multiple units in it,

2:44:15>> you know, to go through however many

2:44:19Yeah.

2:44:19>> multiples of permitting process per

2:44:22unit,

2:44:23>> right? if we can do yeah we can do

2:44:25something like that but again diverting

2:44:28you know trying to make it universal

2:44:30that is the example with franchises you

2:44:33know you've got a business license per

2:44:35location that's part of the city's

2:44:37policy that's pretty integral to the um

2:44:40city's business licensing policy and

2:44:43this will be a regulated license they'll

2:44:45have to have a permit to get the

2:44:47business license it all ties together so

2:44:50but I think if that satisfies the

2:44:52council to deal with a multi-unit

2:44:55structure.

2:44:56>> If that's sufficient, we can I think we

2:44:58can deal with that.

2:44:59>> Okay. My next question, Mayor. Madam,

2:45:02Madam President, I do think we want to

2:45:06be clear on what you're saying that

2:45:10>> you know as an amendment

2:45:13that you will be recommending that

2:45:17um if a short-term rental owner and one

2:45:20building has multiple units

2:45:24um then they should be allowed to have

2:45:27only one license for that facility. But

2:45:29if they have units in three different

2:45:33buildings, then they have to have three

2:45:34different licenses. Do I have that

2:45:36correct?

2:45:36>> Yeah. So, what I'm suggesting and and I

2:45:39think the, you know, I'm going to get a

2:45:42little bit more specific. this one

2:45:44entity,

2:45:46if I recall correctly, at the time that

2:45:49we had this conversation, they had

2:45:52125

2:45:54units or thereabouts

2:45:58um that they use as STRs.

2:46:01Um

2:46:05you know, this is a entity that is

2:46:09significant to the city of Birmingham.

2:46:11Um and I I don't you know they would

2:46:16prefer not to have to go through the

2:46:19permitting for 125 individual units even

2:46:24though you know the units may be unit

2:46:28131 unit 132 unit 13 you know so on so

2:46:34forth. So um

2:46:36uh

2:46:38that's

2:46:40>> you know if we can incorporate an

2:46:42allowance for that type of situation I

2:46:45think think it's pretty limited um

2:46:48>> you know application but

2:46:51>> you know it's creating an opportunity to

2:46:54do that

2:46:54>> I think yeah I think we can do that with

2:46:56a you know I mean that was concern

2:46:59because what I heard was a little bit

2:47:00different from previous but that because

2:47:03it would have been a divergence from

2:47:07city business licensing and other

2:47:09permitting type things that we do. Um

2:47:11but you know that narrowing it that way

2:47:15I think potentially we could do it

2:47:17otherwise we create a domino effect with

2:47:19other

2:47:20>> okay

2:47:21>> things that's a not a push back but we

2:47:24would make a clear the administration

2:47:26would I know I'm I feel like I'm

2:47:29speaking on have professional staff here

2:47:32making a clear distinction between

2:47:34multif family and single family correct

2:47:37>> yes yeah so I you know I agree that they

2:47:41should if they have multiple units on

2:47:44the same property, they should describe

2:47:47those individual units,

2:47:49>> you know, in the permit. Like the BPD

2:47:52needs to know

2:47:54>> that unit 131 is the STR and the one

2:47:58next door is not, you know.

2:48:00>> Yeah. Um, so, um,

2:48:02>> and a concern might be a multif a true

2:48:05multif family versus a condo. And I

2:48:08don't know whether that makes, you know,

2:48:10I'm thinking whether that makes a

2:48:13difference. It may not in the permit

2:48:15status, but technically condominiums are

2:48:18individually owned. They're not part of

2:48:19one structure. So, that may be something

2:48:23we've got to clear up.

2:48:27>> Okay.

2:48:28But I think you just answered your own

2:48:30question though. You know, if they're

2:48:32individually owned, then you know the

2:48:36the permit would be by the property.

2:48:40>> Yeah.

2:48:41>> Um

2:48:41>> well, the individ but in a condo, you

2:48:44might have an owner that owns, you know,

2:48:47you might have one owner that might own

2:48:49more than one condo unit that they're

2:48:50using for an STR.

2:48:53I don't know if that's the case or not,

2:48:54but that's a question. Okay, fair

2:48:57enough.

2:48:59Um, my other question is, and this is

2:49:02important to the process,

2:49:04um, because as councelor Vasa, you know,

2:49:09suggested, I don't think, um, the

2:49:12council meeting is necessarily the

2:49:15appropriate place to be workshopping,

2:49:18you know, the the ordinance.

2:49:21So if we go forward, you know, with what

2:49:25we have before us, you said that this is

2:49:28an item of permanent operation. Um,

2:49:32does it require a public hearing?

2:49:35>> Council, there's no statutory

2:49:37requirement generally for just general

2:49:40ordinances of permanent operation. That

2:49:42would be up to the council.

2:49:45And again, it's it would be different

2:49:46than a Yeah, we had public hearings for

2:49:50like the towing ordinance. It's

2:49:51different than what we go through for

2:49:53zoning ordinances.

2:49:54>> Well, the reason I asked that question

2:49:56is because, you know, I definitely if we

2:50:00do have a public hearing,

2:50:03um the public hearing, you know, under

2:50:05the circumstances where we have to have

2:50:07a public hearing, you know, we have to

2:50:09send out notification and it has to be

2:50:12advertised.

2:50:13And if we get to a a you know the

2:50:18council meeting and we decide based on

2:50:20what we've heard we need to make another

2:50:22change then we've got to go back through

2:50:25that process all over again incur the

2:50:28expense. Um I don't want to do that.

2:50:31that that is a you know that is kind of

2:50:34I won't say it's necessarily unique but

2:50:36that is very specific to zoning

2:50:38ordinances because of the court's um

2:50:41specific uh strict interpretation of

2:50:44zoning statutes and ordinances you've

2:50:46got to follow the procedure to the

2:50:48letter

2:50:49>> attorney Bernard

2:50:50>> Uhhuh.

2:50:50>> I think it's important though to note

2:50:52what the public process has been. I

2:50:54think that is worth sharing in this

2:50:55public record for this meeting. uh Miss

2:50:58Sproul or or either one of you or both

2:51:00of you can you share what has been done

2:51:02>> from a public engagement process to get

2:51:05to this point

2:51:06>> right there. I mean there have been

2:51:07multiple stakeholder in

2:51:10>> I think it's important to I think it's

2:51:11important inserting that in the record.

2:51:13>> We're not ramming some

2:51:16>> ordinance down the public's throat

2:51:19without input without feedback without

2:51:23concerns without them being able to

2:51:24voice

2:51:25>> what they wanted. So, I think that's

2:51:26important to share.

2:51:27>> Yeah, that Yeah, I'll let her share

2:51:30that. I will say though, it would be a

2:51:32different process than what you're

2:51:33talking about that that we experience

2:51:34with zoning. Usually, these are just one

2:51:36notice, you know, one or two notices

2:51:39placed in the newspaper that there's

2:51:41going to be a hearing. It's discussed.

2:51:43It's put on the website and there's no

2:51:45specific notice mailed out. No.

2:51:47>> Yeah.

2:51:48>> So, you know, basically what I'm getting

2:51:50at is

2:51:52I think it's super important. Mhm.

2:51:55>> I think many of us who have been in this

2:51:57conversation are exhausted. [laughter]

2:52:01Um yeah, you know, I councelor Abbott

2:52:07and uh for former councelor Abbott um

2:52:12knows that this conversation started at

2:52:15the neighborhood level long before we

2:52:18started discussing it, you know, in

2:52:22meetings through PEP. Um, so I can't

2:52:26remember what the date was, but you

2:52:28know, it was 2 or 3 years before

2:52:32>> I have the list. I made sure that I had

2:52:34an accurate list in case someone asked.

2:52:37I think it's important as the mayor

2:52:39said, we started in 2023.

2:52:42So for four months from 2023 into 2024,

2:52:46we had stakeholder engagement. And if

2:52:49you recall, that's when we met

2:52:51individually and asked counselors to

2:52:54recommend

2:52:56representatives from their districts who

2:52:57would participate with us in the

2:52:59stakeholder engagement process. Um, I

2:53:02know that was three years ago, so it may

2:53:04be hard to remember. We held two town

2:53:06hall meetings in 2024, one at the

2:53:09Crosslex and one at Shields Conference

2:53:12Center. Those were in April of 2024. We

2:53:15attended the CAB meeting in May of 2024.

2:53:19The very first public hearing went

2:53:22before ZAC on July 16th. We attended the

2:53:26committee the whole meeting on July

2:53:2817th. It went back to ZAC on September

2:53:3217th, 2024. And that was another public

2:53:35hearing. Then it went to CAB in

2:53:38September of 2024. committee of the

2:53:41whole September 18th of 2024.

2:53:44another public no I'm sorry not a public

2:53:47hearing but planning and zoning

2:53:48committee September 25th 2024

2:53:52back to ZAC October 15 2024 which was

2:53:56another public hearing and then it made

2:53:59its way through planning and zoning in

2:54:02October 2024 and December 2024 and then

2:54:06finally in February of 2025

2:54:10there was a vote and then it was sent

2:54:13back to committee of the whole in April

2:54:15of 2025 and then we met in March of 2026

2:54:19and now today.

2:54:21>> Yeah. So exhausting,

2:54:24>> right?

2:54:25>> Um and

2:54:30so

2:54:32I'm I'm ready to get it over with. Um

2:54:35and I I you know I I

2:54:39am a firm believer that although the uh

2:54:44you know we have existed with over 10

2:54:48years of having STRs in the in the city

2:54:51unregulated

2:54:53um and the city you know hasn't burnt

2:54:55down as a result. Um we still very much

2:54:59need uh a framework as you guys

2:55:03mentioned all of the reasons why uh

2:55:06regulation is important. Um

2:55:11so

2:55:13you know provided that we can address

2:55:17the

2:55:18issue that I mentioned previously about

2:55:22one property having multiple units. Um,

2:55:27you know, I want to I want us to to move

2:55:29this forward as as soon as the council

2:55:32is is ready. But, you know, knowing that

2:55:35we don't have to go through yet another

2:55:39public hearing

2:55:41um is an important consideration because

2:55:44that complicates things. It makes it,

2:55:47you know, more laborious uh for

2:55:50everybody involved.

2:56:04Yeah.

2:56:05>> All right. I do know we have one more

2:56:07question.

2:56:08>> One quick question. Hopefully there's a

2:56:09quick answer. Um, under the revocation

2:56:12of the business license, uh, I see that

2:56:15they are allowed to reapply after 12

2:56:17months. uh why are they allowed to

2:56:19reapply if they've their business

2:56:21license have been revoked and then does

2:56:23the revocation apply to all of their

2:56:25subsequent uh SDRs that they may own?

2:56:28>> Well, that I mean that's a question and

2:56:30that also becomes an issue if you have

2:56:31one permit you know you may wind up

2:56:33you're revoking that whole thing. Um so

2:56:38uh you know that that's another

2:56:39consideration to think about in that

2:56:41context. Uh we generally have um is it a

2:56:47year attorney King or is it 6 months

2:56:49that somebody can reapply after they a

2:56:51business license is revoked

2:56:54within six months I believe

2:56:55>> I think I think it's six months um you

2:56:59know you're generally not stopping

2:57:00somebody from being able hopefully they

2:57:02come back you know reformed and doing

2:57:05things in a better way so you know that

2:57:08that's a reason for hand you know for

2:57:09handling it that way and Yeah. Yeah.

2:57:13Yeah.

2:57:16>> Okay. Thank you so much, council. We've

2:57:20heard um want to thank it administration

2:57:24and staff for um giving us this

2:57:27additional information. What is our

2:57:29pleasure at this point because we've

2:57:31heard some things that um are not

2:57:33necessarily shown in the document that

2:57:35we have tonight. So, do we have any um a

2:57:38motion how to move forward?

2:57:44I have a I have a comment

2:57:48question or a motion, but I'm sure I can

2:57:50come up with a motion so we can end

2:57:51this. But um so I and I agree with Dr.

2:57:55O'Quinn. We we we've talked about this

2:57:57way too long. And it's clear that the

2:57:59council all of us are not going to come

2:58:01to a consensus on um especially the

2:58:04zoning piece. I think that if we were

2:58:07going to come up with a consensus then

2:58:09you wouldn't have that long list of of

2:58:11stuff you you read out. So um it you

2:58:15know what obviously enforcement the

2:58:17whole city and I think the whole council

2:58:20agrees on the enforcement aspect of it.

2:58:22The one thing that we have or I know

2:58:26three or four of us did mention is and I

2:58:29was one of them was an enterprise

2:58:32license. So if it was 10 or more

2:58:34properties, which is what Dr. O'Kood was

2:58:36just talking about, that they could have

2:58:38an enterprise license. If an enterprise

2:58:40license holder has unresponsible

2:58:43Airbnbs, then I don't care if they lose

2:58:46every single Airbnb. That's part of

2:58:48being a responsible business. If there

2:58:51is a business in this city that operates

2:58:53irresponsibly and they have multiple

2:58:55locations, then this council can shut

2:58:57down all of their locations and I don't

2:59:00really care. So I would like to see the

2:59:04idea of an enterprise license. I think

2:59:07it could be handled with CAD. I think it

2:59:10can be handled with tax and licensing.

2:59:13The only thing that it can't be handled

2:59:15with I mean we can do whatever we want.

2:59:18I mean it can be handled. All we have to

2:59:20do is write it in. So with that is

2:59:24y'all's is is the are the five

2:59:27stragglers that are here. Do y'all want

2:59:30to pass this without an enterprise

2:59:32license? Move it to the agenda without

2:59:34an enterprise license or would y'all

2:59:36like to keep it in committee because I

2:59:38don't care either way. But it's up to

2:59:41it's up to y'all four.

2:59:43>> Give us a motion.

2:59:45>> I I'm with Madam President.

2:59:47>> Hold on a second. I do see a hand up.

2:59:49>> Do you Mr.

2:59:51Madam Madam President, if you if you let

2:59:53him ask your colleague ask his question,

2:59:55I'm gonna confer something with my two

2:59:57colleagues and come right back to you in

2:59:59less than 30 seconds.

3:00:01>> Yes, councelor.

3:00:02>> Thank you. Um I've hear the enterprise

3:00:05piece which I think is an important part

3:00:07of the conversation particularly in

3:00:09multif family areas. I think that's

3:00:11that's something that should be a part

3:00:12of it. And I would also uh to staff and

3:00:15administration uh mention that if we are

3:00:18talking about removing cap of 1% and

3:00:22removing uh the zoning piece from it and

3:00:24removing spacing

3:00:33that it might behoove us to at least

3:00:36have a conversation about declustering.

3:00:39um and and that should be a part of the

3:00:43conversation um uh as as as well. So,

3:00:47uh, it sounds in other words like

3:00:49there's some items that still need to be

3:00:51workshopped and for that reason I think

3:00:54having a a conversation again with

3:00:56committee the whole

3:00:58>> so that motion is that we

3:01:02>> so I'd like to

3:01:03>> consider moving this item to committee

3:01:05the whole for the next committee the

3:01:07whole for consideration.

3:01:09>> Yes, ma'am.

3:01:09>> Once we get the draft back that has some

3:01:11of these considerations that we've

3:01:14talked about.

3:01:16I'd like

3:01:22to consider

3:01:24>> so we don't go through the whole

3:01:25reiteration again

3:01:30very specific about considerations.

3:01:33>> Can I make a suggestion?

3:01:35>> We have a counter here.

3:01:37>> All right. So,

3:01:39um

3:01:42because we don't have to deal with a

3:01:43public hearing process, um and you know,

3:01:49we can deliberate in a council meeting.

3:01:52Um and I think staff is willing to, you

3:01:57know, come to us, hear our concerns, you

3:02:01know, keep working on the ordinance. Um,

3:02:07my individual preference would be to get

3:02:10it out stuck out of committee [laughter]

3:02:13and at least give it the opportunity of

3:02:16getting on a council agenda um at some

3:02:18point and we can have, you know,

3:02:21deliberative discussions in a council

3:02:23meeting. Um it doesn't mean that we, you

3:02:27know, have to

3:02:32vote on it, you know, uh up or down at

3:02:36the time that it is placed on the

3:02:38agenda, you know, um but it's been stuck

3:02:42in committee of the whole for

3:02:46I don't know how long, a long time. So

3:02:49>> Madam President,

3:02:50>> so yes,

3:02:52>> don't please don't beat the

3:02:53administration up. I think um conferring

3:02:56with legal, conferring with PEP,

3:03:00conferring with BPD, we may have a

3:03:03solution that may satisfy the council.

3:03:06So, I'll I I'll say the back end

3:03:08backwards and I'll let them fill in on

3:03:10what would happen over two or three

3:03:12weeks that the if it's the pleasure of

3:03:15the council to recommend um to the full

3:03:19body either the 13th or the 20th, it

3:03:23gives them um two things. one to resolve

3:03:26deeper on the matrix and to satisfy the

3:03:30balance of enforcement

3:03:33but making sure one individual doesn't

3:03:36have to do all these processes if they

3:03:39got multiple things and I want them to

3:03:41explain that way better than I can right

3:03:43quick

3:03:48>> either either way uh but yeah that's

3:03:50yeah what I suggest if the committee

3:03:52wants to go ahead and for you know move

3:03:54with substantially what we have we can

3:03:56come back with a draft to add these

3:03:58couple of things that we've talked about

3:03:59the the enterprise or the multiple unit

3:04:02building some way to try to address that

3:04:06bureaucratic burden on you know a

3:04:08specific type of business and um include

3:04:12the violation matrix give us a little

3:04:14bit more time to work with uh DC boackle

3:04:16on clarifying

3:04:19you know those recommendations and then

3:04:21we can get that draft that draft can be

3:04:23what goes to the council. Um I mean you

3:04:28can see the draft ahead of council

3:04:29meeting but

3:04:31um

3:04:32>> Okay.

3:04:33>> I just had a question on what was said.

3:04:36I'm sorry.

3:04:36>> Go ahead. No question.

3:04:37>> Uh council. Did you

3:04:39>> No, I I was asking do my I was asking

3:04:41Dr. Quinn if he made a motion or not. I

3:04:43couldn't tell by the

3:04:44>> Yeah. Yeah. My motion was to advance

3:04:47this um item to the full council for

3:04:51consideration. You have a date

3:04:53>> the you want to do the 20th to see if he

3:04:54can just make it go

3:04:57>> 20th.

3:04:57>> Sure. For October 20th.

3:04:59>> All right.

3:05:00>> I did have a procedure question for the

3:05:02>> Okay. So question related to this

3:05:04motion.

3:05:04>> Yes ma'am.

3:05:05>> Yes sir.

3:05:05>> The question is the ordinance as so

3:05:08let's say the ordinance is workshopped

3:05:11before it's presented to council. Mhm.

3:05:14>> Would that recreate a new start date for

3:05:17presentation to council or could that

3:05:18just be what is presented on the 13th of

3:05:22the 21st?

3:05:22>> No,

3:05:24>> go ahead.

3:05:24>> Um, so it's an item of permanent

3:05:27operation. So

3:05:30>> it, you know, we can do that. We can

3:05:33actually do the multiple readings um,

3:05:36you know, versus

3:05:39>> doing or not. But but anyway um

3:05:45>> and honestly as the council we can just

3:05:47say our expect

3:05:50during council we vote that there will

3:05:52be a enterprise license availability of

3:05:5510 or more units and then administration

3:05:57can figure it out. [laughter]

3:06:01>> Yes. since we still have the opportunity

3:06:02for that deliberation or make any

3:06:05changes during that time that we're

3:06:07deliberating on it during that meeting.

3:06:10>> And I had one last question on this

3:06:12motion. Yes. Uh thanks for everyone's

3:06:14patience. And that is again the zoning

3:06:17piece. So that is completely detached

3:06:20from this conversation, right?

3:06:22>> And would have to run as a separate lane

3:06:24and a separate timeline.

3:06:25>> Yes. uh can I get an understanding of uh

3:06:29on record of of how quickly we would be

3:06:33able to get to that

3:06:35>> because my concern is that my fear is

3:06:38that it we passed this legislation and

3:06:42uh and then short-term rentals can be

3:06:45anywhere. We have no guard rails for our

3:06:47residents in terms of where short-term

3:06:50rentals can be. We're I I want to be

3:06:53overly transparent with you, my friend.

3:06:55We're not in a position to give you that

3:06:58assurance of a timeline. I I'm I know

3:07:02the staff is committed to discussing it,

3:07:03but I can't put parameters

3:07:06around a next step, a how, a when

3:07:10>> all of the things. Um, but I I I know

3:07:13them and I take them at their word that

3:07:14they discussed this. But

3:07:18I can't that's all I can tell you that

3:07:20that we will discuss. I can't like

3:07:24>> unfortunately I can't give you that

3:07:26insurance. That's that's an honest

3:07:28answer.

3:07:28>> But it's up to the council too. I mean

3:07:31it be as anyone as if we would pass. So,

3:07:33it's up to us collectively in a sense

3:07:36and not just

3:07:39>> but until that correct but until that is

3:07:41in place then short-term rentals can be

3:07:44anywhere in the city regardless wherever

3:07:46there would there would be no clustering

3:07:48there would be no uh regulations or

3:07:51guardrails around

3:07:53>> council vaso the significant difference

3:07:55you know

3:07:57is is that like deputy chief bohackle

3:08:02said you you know, right now the police

3:08:04department doesn't have um sufficient

3:08:07tools to to be able to address some of

3:08:10the issues and you know, I know that

3:08:14residents um have been wanting

3:08:18uh some mechanism, you know, to get some

3:08:22control around this issue. So,

3:08:26um I I think that that's what we kind of

3:08:29have to look at is is you know, I know

3:08:32I hear I hear you. You know, there's

3:08:36this leaves some gaps. Um but we have to

3:08:41make some some progress too. So um I

3:08:45think you know getting in front of

3:08:47council having the deliberation you know

3:08:50making some progress um even if we have

3:08:53to make it incrementally

3:08:55um making progress is important.

3:08:59>> Dr. Quinn, will you please change your

3:09:01motion to the 27th?

3:09:02>> So, it's been brought to my attention

3:09:03that October 20th may not be the ideal

3:09:06date due to some other items on the

3:09:08agenda. Uh, so I'm going to recommend

3:09:11that we

3:09:13I I'll amend my motion to change the

3:09:16date to October 27th.

3:09:19>> 27th 27th.

3:09:21>> Second.

3:09:22>> Okay. Any further questions? We're

3:09:24voting on that date to move this to the

3:09:26October 27th

3:09:29>> question. Is that classic week?

3:09:31>> Yes. [laughter]

3:09:34>> Just checking.

3:09:35>> We'll keep that in mind. All those in

3:09:37favor, please say I.

3:09:39>> I. Any opposers?

3:09:40>> No.

3:09:41>> All right. Thank you. Are you a no?

3:09:43>> You're a name. Okay. Well, it's still

3:09:45we're good. 41.

3:09:48>> Yes. So, we're moving that to the

3:09:50October 27th. Thank you, counselor. All

3:09:52right. At this time, a motion to

3:09:54adjurnn. Second. All those in favor,

3:09:56please say I. Thank you so much.

3:10:02>> Thank you all. Thank you.

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