2026-09-28 - Board of Finance

00:00I am going to go ahead and call to order

00:02the city of Burlington's board of

00:03finance meeting on Monday, September

00:0528th, 2026 at 5:05 p.m. Our first item

00:09is the agenda. Is there a motion on the

00:11agenda?

00:12>> Adopt the agenda

00:13>> by councelor Barlo. Is there a second?

00:15Second by council carpenter. Thank you.

00:17Any discussion on the agenda before we

00:19vote?

00:21Seeing none, all in favor indicate by

00:22saying I.

00:24>> I.

00:25>> Any oppose? Nay. Motion carries

00:28unanimously. Thank you. On to our second

00:30item which is public forum. It is the

00:32practice of the board to go into do

00:35public comment in the room first and

00:37then online. So I see only city staff

00:40here with us. Hi city staff. I assume

00:42none of you are here for public comment.

00:44So I'm going to go online and we have

00:47former city councelor Sharon Busher.

00:49Good evening Sharon. You have the floor.

00:52>> Good evening. Um actually I have little

00:56to say about this agenda. It's a good

00:58one, but I'm going to listen. I am just

01:01focused really on the revolving loans

01:05that we are getting on our water and

01:07wastewater projects and um am concerned

01:12that there'll be another ask. Um so I'm

01:16I'm just watchdoging all of that and

01:18trying to understand it as best I can so

01:20that any input I give you is founded in

01:24some reality and not just a wish list.

01:26So thank you.

01:29>> Thank you Sharon.

01:30And I believe there is no one else

01:32online to address the board of finance.

01:34So with that I will close public forum

01:36and we move on to our third item which

01:38is the consent agenda. Is there a motion

01:40on the consent agenda?

01:43>> The consent agenda and take the actions.

01:45>> Moved by councelor Barlo. Is there a

01:47second? Seconded by council carpenter.

01:50Any further discussion before we vote?

01:53Seeing none. All in favor indicate by

01:55saying I.

01:57>> I.

01:58>> Any oppose? Nay. Motion carries

02:00unanimously.

02:02Thank you very much. It's been right

02:04behind us. We're fine with consent, I

02:06assume. Yes. Moving on.

02:08>> I

02:08>> I Okay. Pirate pirate trappers has

02:12arrived. Okay. Moving on to our

02:15deliberative agenda. Item 4.1 is our

02:17first item and that is the

02:19reclassification of human uh resources

02:21managers from grade 20 to 21. HR

02:24director Reagan is there. Welcome Lyn

02:28mayor.

02:30As the mayor said, Lyn Reagan, uh,

02:32director of human resources, and I'm

02:35pleased to be able to sit in front of

02:37you today to, you know, speak not only

02:41about all employees of the city, which I

02:43usually do when I'm sitting at this

02:45table, but chance to kind of uh

02:47highlight specifically the HR team and

02:50uh the HR manager role. So a little

02:53background um I am presenting to have

02:57that reclassified. Um currently we have

03:00three HR managers in the city and we

03:03partnered them up. So each kind of works

03:06closely with four to five different

03:08departments across the city and that

03:11means that they're they've got their

03:13hand in managing at least um 200 to 230

03:17employees depending on the time of year.

03:20Um and we work with each department on

03:23everything from you know onboarding to

03:26um exiting. So recruitment interviews.

03:29We work closely with managers on their

03:31organizational structure and the

03:33development of their organizational

03:36um chart. We administer and interpret u

03:42currently four collective bargaining

03:44agreements soon to be a fifth. Um we

03:47start bargaining tomorrow. but um

03:51constantly keeping an eye on the not

03:53only the Vermont state laws but the

03:55federal laws as they're um changing

03:58every day. And so the HR manager

04:01position, this is a JD that has not been

04:03reviewed since 2014.

04:06And I really started to take a close

04:08look at it um

04:11u about a gosh, I don't even know about

04:14maybe a year and a half ago. As as we

04:16know, many city departments were asked

04:19to look at their um staff when we had to

04:23um had some budget gap and we needed to

04:26do a staff reduction. The HR department

04:28was at that time impacted and we lost

04:31one of our FTE which was the uh

04:37>> what was my title? assistant uh

04:41>> assistant director with a focus on

04:43benefits and administering uh leaves of

04:46absences and um workers compensation and

04:50so a lot of those uh duties that I held

04:53at that time needed to be dispersed

04:56amongst the department and were assumed

04:58by the three HR managers. So that did

05:00increase their workload. Um and in

05:03addition to that, um we recently

05:06launched a performance management module

05:08within UKG. Uh and now they're going to

05:12be heavily involved in that process

05:13because they are really going to be the

05:15stop gap when it comes to those

05:17performance reviews to make sure that

05:19they're written accurately, they're

05:20written effectively for the employees,

05:22and that we gain some strong

05:24communication between the employees and

05:26their managers. So when I did have to

05:29sit down and take a look at the fiscal

05:31year 27 budget, I did include and

05:35thought ahead about reclassifying this

05:37position. So did include it in my fiscal

05:39year 27 budget. So this is a costneutral

05:43um request that I'm seeking and you know

05:46kind of delayed it um from the start of

05:49the fiscal year. So we're about a

05:50quarter in um to try to help with

05:53savings in addition to that. So, and as

05:55you know, when when any other department

05:57comes forward with a reclassification,

05:59it is the HR department that uses our

06:02realist compensation plan to evaluate

06:04these roles. So, I did want to um kind

06:08of take them out of this and I consulted

06:11with Gallagher and Flynn and they

06:13conducted a market analysis for me. Um

06:16I'm not looking to market factor the

06:18position. I did utilize the pay scale uh

06:21that Gallagher and Flynn provided and

06:23then just put it to our current current

06:25grade system. And that's where I landed

06:27with the grade 21.

06:32I'm happy to answer any questions that

06:34you might have and just thank you in

06:35advance for consideration.

06:40>> Are there any questions or comments for

06:50>> Thank you. Um I just had a question

06:52about the memo financial impact.

06:56>> Yeah.

06:57>> The difference was u for each of the

07:00three employees said 21 step seven is a

07:05step there's several steps right to

07:07>> there are so within each grade there are

07:0915 steps.

07:10>> That's right in the middle.

07:11>> That's right in the middle. That was

07:13really just to kind of gauge uh you know

07:15the cost to give an idea. They don't get

07:17specific to each one. They're at

07:19different grades, but that is a an

07:22estimate that I felt very comfortable by

07:24providing the finan.

07:31>> Any other questions?

07:35>> Yes.

07:36>> Just [clears throat]

07:38>> is there any concern with compression

07:39with other positions that are grade 21?

07:43Who else is on grade 21 at this point?

07:46Are there any concerns that focus on

07:48grade 20? I mean, I guess going back to

07:50your point on rather than doing a market

07:52adjustment to grade 20 on the whole

07:56perspective instead of this position

07:59just jump to the impact on others that

08:02are on those grades.

08:04>> It's not going to have any impact

08:06internally on the HR team. I don't have

08:09uh anyone sitting at a grade 21 and so

08:12right now we have eight FTE within our

08:14department. pretty small I've been

08:16considering. Um but that is part of the

08:18process when we evaluate any job that

08:21comes to us. Uh we always take a look at

08:24u similar positions across the cities

08:26that we do take into account when we're

08:29looking to reclassify and take a look at

08:31who else sits at a 20 who sits at a 21

08:34see what their responsibilities are what

08:36are the requirements to meet those jobs.

08:39I didn't don't have that concern with

08:41with this but it is part of the process

08:42that we do review. Any

08:46other questions or comments?

08:52Any motions?

08:57>> Recommend that we approve the

08:58reclassification as listed on city

09:00clerk.

09:01>> Thank you, Councelor Travers. Is there a

09:03second? Second by Councer. Thank you.

09:06Any further discussion before we vote?

09:11>> None. All in favor indicate by saying I.

09:14I

09:15>> oppose. Nay. Motion carries next. Thank

09:18you very much.

09:20Moving on down to item two, which is an

09:23authorization of parking revenue

09:25financing from the Department of Public

09:26Works.

09:28Jackie here. Hi, Jackie. Hello. Jackie,

09:32division director for parking and

09:34traffic. We are looking to borrow $1.6 6

09:38million um for budget 265 which covers

09:42all the green facilities. The 1.6 is um

09:47work that we're going to do anyway and

09:49instead of cash flowing it, we would

09:52like to do all the work quicker. Um it

09:56includes concrete work for College

09:58Street garage, Westlake garage, which is

10:00currently under we're doing that right

10:02now. um

10:05elevator repairs for Marketplace Garage

10:07and College Street garage. Um and then

10:11additional concrete repairs totaling

10:13about $800,000 that we would like to get

10:16started in the springtime. Um this

10:20budget currently has

10:22prior to September 11th, we had a $2.5

10:26million um revenue anticipation note. We

10:29paid $820,000

10:31of that's down using um

10:36fund balance from both park facilities

10:38and the traffic fund.

10:41Moved around some money and expect

10:45um a little over $500,000 from this

10:48budget as a net profit last fiscal year

10:5226. Um so that will be also put towards

10:55the brand. um that's just a one-year

10:58revolving note on that. So, this is

11:01separate from that, but um the main

11:03focus is trying to pay off that rand

11:05while we get this much needed work done

11:08in the garage to

11:11extend the life of the garages.

11:18Questions or comments on item 4.2?

11:25>> Thank you. Um are there I I was looking

11:28at the breakdown um for the different um

11:32sub projects within this request and the

11:35only thing at the marketplace garage is

11:37elevator.

11:38>> So as of right now, yes, that garage is

11:42we we put in a lot $750,000 at least of

11:46work um a couple of years ago. Um so

11:52that did extend that life. We don't have

11:54a grade projection.

11:57These needs are just a little bit more

11:58immediate than that.

12:00>> So there there's

12:02the nature of my question is more around

12:04I we know that this is the garage that

12:07may have has an uncertain future.

12:09>> Yes.

12:09>> Um and so we've done some work and this

12:12work needs to happen. So sounds [snorts]

12:14like

12:14>> um and is there any other work that like

12:18would be if if we knew that we're going

12:20to have the garage longer term, we might

12:22do that work, but It's we may also end

12:26up

12:27>> tearing you down. So we would want to

12:29>> Yes.

12:30>> want to spend.

12:32>> So my plan is to pay off the the rand

12:36first the revenue anticipation not those

12:38that's 4.8ish

12:401.7 now pay that off while I'm paying

12:43this off. I do I think we're looking at

12:46seven years for this loan. So, while

12:48we're paying this off, start to look now

12:50that this budget is actually making

12:52money, which hasn't done previously, we

12:56will be looking to plan for the future.

12:59The new garage is going to cost $50

13:01million or so. So, I think we're going

13:05to use this one as long as we can as

13:07long as it's safe.

13:10Anything else? Other questions or

13:12comments from the board?

13:19My father was on the city council that

13:25was 45 years.

13:26>> Yeah. 70s.

13:32Any other comments or questions or

13:34motion?

13:38I would move to approve and recommend

13:40city council adopt the following

13:42resolution and authorize financing to

13:45capital.

13:48>> Thank you councelor. Is there a second

13:52car? Thank you. Any final comments or

13:54questions before we vote?

13:58Seeing none, all in favor by saying I.

14:01>> I nay. Motion carries. Thank you very

14:05much. Moving right along to item 4.3

14:08which is a request for approval to

14:10execute a contract alpha

14:14for comprehensive rebuild of the press.

14:20Welcome

14:23our director of wastewater here Matt

14:25Dao. Um you guys saw the first belt

14:29filter press came through last year and

14:31we used money from FY26. So, we're just

14:33back in this for the second one.

14:37>> Um, basically, uh,

14:40Bfield presses um well, one of them now

14:44is one not uh had passed their useful

14:46life. Um, it was in our plans to uh

14:49replace them um with a much larger

14:52expenditure with modern equipment. um

14:55the climate of some of the regulations

14:57and whatnot, it made more sense for us

14:59to invest um and with the other asks

15:02with uh wastewater for major upgrades

15:06coming um to rebuild the equipment that

15:09we have and uh continue to use it while

15:12we let the while we understand what's

15:14going to happen

15:17the market or how the sledge is bio

15:20solids is dispos disposed uh in the

15:22future. Um we successfully completed uh

15:26rebuild of one of the presses in uh

15:29March and coming to replace the other

15:32one so we can get longevity out of it.

15:34um have the next five to 10 years to

15:37figure out what the future of processing

15:40is in Burlington

15:41>> buy ourselves more time although I did

15:44provide a cautionary remark in the memo

15:47that should the regulations change

15:49suddenly which we don't have any control

15:51over and the places that take our

15:54bioolids the solid material and

15:56wastewater should they shut down and not

15:58allow us to ship there we might be in a

16:01very quick emergency ask to have to

16:03implement some other type of technology.

16:06If you recall when we talked about the

16:07wastewater treatment facility, I think

16:09it was the tune of eight 8 to n million

16:11bucks that we were going to spend to

16:14create some to put something in that

16:15would make a drier product, which would

16:18save us money over the long haul. We

16:19just still don't know enough about the

16:22landscape to know if we need to go like

16:24even further, especially if we're having

16:26to ship it like way way far away. So,

16:28it's something we're keeping our eye on.

16:30We hope that it won't be like an

16:32overnight thing, but we do sort of have

16:34nightmares about that sometimes. So,

16:36want to make sure you are part of the

16:38nightmare.

16:39>> Thank you.

16:43>> Anything else from our team for

16:45questions?

16:48Questions or comments from the board?

16:49Item 4.3

16:53questions for some reason.

16:55>> You said you have a lot of questions. I

16:56I seem to

16:59>> just in general.

16:59>> Um so I I'm just wondering how this fits

17:02within and I didn't read the memo, but

17:05um you had said that um this is

17:08something that we're doing now, but we

17:10also have the wastewater the bigger

17:12wastewater bond that's being implemented

17:14all the time. Is this is the alternative

17:17way of dealing with these solids is that

17:21contemplated in your bond that was

17:24approved or is that part of the bond

17:26that was sort of pulled away to shrink

17:29down?

17:30>> This this is part of the shrink.

17:31>> Okay. This was an item that when I first

17:34when we first brought you a much larger

17:36number and right we understandably um I

17:39think for both reasons both because the

17:41number was so large and then also as we

17:43started to think about like do we know

17:46that the technology that we had selected

17:48is going to be the best thing for the

17:50long term we couldn't definitively say

17:52yes. And so we decided to go this other

17:54option of spending a much smaller amount

17:57of money to give us a little bit more of

17:59a runway because we believe hope in the

18:02next five years it's going to be become

18:04clear

18:06hopefully clear in our favor but it

18:07could be clear in the other way and then

18:09at least we know we're spending the

18:12right money for the right thing.

18:13>> Thank you. I just that's my only

18:15clarification. Yeah.

18:19>> Other comments or questions?

18:23For those of you who have done the tour,

18:24it's the stinkiest part of the

18:25wastewater plant.

18:27>> We haven't actually shown anybody that

18:29part.

18:29>> Oh, okay.

18:32>> Bring a change of clothes. You said

18:34>> yes, it gets in. It gets in your

18:35clothes.

18:36>> Okay.

18:36>> Be in that room for 30 seconds and we

18:38will smell like that room the rest of

18:40the day.

18:41>> Appreciate that. PSA.

18:45>> All right. Is there a motion if there's

18:46no other questions? No other questions

18:49for

18:52I would take the motion and recommended.

18:57>> Thank you, councelor Barlo. Is there a

18:58second?

19:00>> Seconded by council interpreter. Any

19:02final comments before we vote?

19:05Seeing none, all in favor indicate by

19:07saying I. Any motion carries.

19:11Thank you very much.

19:14deliberative item which is

19:18authorization up to

19:21change.

19:26>> We're having

19:28well this is a very long title so you

19:30should be able to pull this up by the

19:31time I finish this. um step two loan

19:33from the Vermont Clean Water State

19:34Revolve Fund for an amended engineering

19:36contract with right giers for up to $6

19:39million and change for consulting

19:41contract the PC construction for up to

19:43$1 million and change for the consulting

19:46contract the Stantic of up to 396,000

19:50$100,000 for the main wastewater plant

19:53improvement stage one all of that DPW

19:56water division

20:00>> yeah we can uh Thank you.

20:02>> I have a holder of it. Thank you very

20:04much. This is an important

20:06>> Can you turn off sharing? I'm sorry.

20:09>> Yeah, for some reason.

20:11Uh this is a very important moment where

20:13we're bringing forward a number of

20:14requests related to stage one of our

20:16wastewater treatment plant upgrades. And

20:19u I want to just frame the appreciation

20:23I have for the last six to nine months

20:24of work of this team. This team has

20:28gotten the [clears throat] state of

20:29Vermont's first uh construction manager

20:32at risk uh project to be funded through

20:36the state revolving fund. That is a huge

20:39progress that will benefit uh rate

20:41pairs. addition uh there were a number

20:42of procurements that are in front of you

20:44tonight that they were able to manage

20:46sequential uh in parallel such that all

20:50of the three actions plus the SRF action

20:53are in front of you for uh for uh joint

20:57action tonight which I think well uh

21:00elucidates how this team has coordinated

21:02a very complex series of products uh to

21:05be ready for your consideration tonight

21:08and uh we're happy to answer any

21:10questions after a presentation from

21:11Megan and uh Mark

21:14>> and in particular I guess as you uh

21:16consume this presentation let us know if

21:18there's any particular things that you

21:19think the larger council is going to

21:21want to um hear about that we could add.

21:24So it's a little bit of a dry run for

21:25the presentation we hope to give uh next

21:28Monday.

21:29So with that I'm going to pass it off to

21:31Martin for the first few slides and then

21:33I'll take over our

21:34>> Thanks. Um Martin Lee, water resources

21:37engineering manager. Um this is a big

21:42step uh for this project. We've been to

21:44DPW Commission and the TUK over the last

21:47couple months to um present on these

21:51updates as well. Um kind of leading up

21:54to where we are now. We really wanted it

21:57to all be um one package where we're

22:00coming with the Seymar which we're going

22:03to discuss the Semar owner advisor and

22:06also our engineer who will be staying on

22:09through final design. So this is just an

22:12overview where we're going to talk about

22:14the current construction project um a

22:17quick uh update on the stage one uh

22:20large project at 30% final design. Um

22:24review cost and funding, procurement, um

22:28our asks for board of finance and city

22:30council and then the rate plan. And

22:34so right now we are near the end of our

22:40headworks construction project that

22:42includes new screening and grit handling

22:45equipment at all three of our wastewater

22:47plants. Um that project is anticipated

22:51to come in well within uh the budget uh

22:56and approved contingency from city

22:58council. Um that will be wrapped up by

23:01the end of 2026. Uh the photo on the

23:04left is our grid uh chamber

23:08at the main wastewater plant. The new

23:11traveling bridge and pump system is

23:13being installed there. And then on the

23:14right uh is a photo from our north plant

23:17where um kind of smaller plant, smaller

23:20equipment, but that's the screen that's

23:22also similar to what has gone in at the

23:26east wastewater plant.

23:28>> Can you remind us the what roles PC

23:32right Pearson spent?

23:35>> There we do have a slide on that. Okay.

23:36Okay. But I did want you to remember or

23:39note that this first phase that PC

23:42construction in Great Pier so two of the

23:44people that we're trying to hire for

23:45future phases participated in this

23:48phase. And so uh let us have experience

23:51part in particular with the contractor

23:53PC construction.

23:56>> You explain that whenever you get to

23:58that. And then the other piece um I was

23:59going to say was I can't remember off

24:01the top of my head. I'm having trouble

24:02signing in because of internet issues.

24:04But um the great part about this project

24:07is that we were able to apply both ARPA

24:10dollars uh that that are meant for the

24:12wet weather system as well as we got a

24:14PCA pollution control grant towards this

24:17project. I can't promise it's going to

24:19happen for the future ones, but it was

24:20great that at least at this moment the

24:23state had funding to offset some of the

24:25costs. Um, so that kind of goes back or

24:28it reduces how much of our bonding

24:29authority we drew down.

24:33>> Check check.

24:34>> Right. So as that project wraps up, uh,

24:37we still need more investment and this

24:39is check check. a year and a half ago or

24:43close to two years ago when we were

24:45sharing this.

24:45>> How's it now?

24:47>> We have

24:48>> talking talking talking

24:51>> an illustration of

24:53where our infrastructure is with grades.

24:56So we have uh too many Fs and D's. Um,

25:00and as time goes by, that column every

25:04every year or or what have you, that

25:07column um on the right will continue to

25:09get higher uh with worse grades. And

25:13just [clears throat] uh the that's a big

25:16part of it. And then we also need to

25:18ensure we have uh sufficient capacity

25:21for the anticipated growth. Um and this

25:26project will give us more flexibility

25:28with growth in the city. Uh which is uh

25:31very important from our perspective of

25:34water resources. So we're not um in a

25:37pinch and this project. Uh another

25:41exciting piece is the phosphor. I think

25:43that's one of the most beneficial new

25:46pieces of infrastructure is a new

25:48tertiary phosphorus filter um which we

25:52piloted and will go in at the end of the

25:55treatment system. Um

25:57>> that's our phosphorus not the

25:58phosphorus.

26:00>> Correct.

26:00>> Correct. Yeah.

26:01>> We're required to reduce both the

26:03phosphorous discharges from waste water

26:04as well as storm water. And one of the

26:06things I'll touch upon is we're able to

26:08meet both of those requirements by

26:11handling so much at the plant. One other

26:14slight note that that sort of scorecard,

26:17right? It did look even worse in 2018.

26:20So we didn't have anything in the A+ or

26:24A category. And so the things that are

26:26in the A category are the things that we

26:28have largely addressed with that 2018

26:31money. the disinfection systems and

26:32initial upgrade of the SCADA and then

26:34the headworks um that we just completed

26:38but unfortunately we still have more to

26:39remain which is why we asked for the

26:41additional money in 2025.

26:44Um yeah, so a big picture of the large

26:48wastewater projects that we have uh

26:50ongoing and on the horizon. Uh stage

26:53zero is highlighted at the top. That's

26:55our headworks construction project using

26:57the rest of the 2018 bond money that's

27:01wrapping up this year. Um we also have

27:04the stage one uh project that's the

27:08voter approved project from 2025

27:13um town meeting day and that's the

27:18that's what we're looking to get um

27:22approvals for for that project. Um but

27:25tightly linked to the stage one project

27:27is stage two. So stage one is building a

27:30larger plant that can have uh redundancy

27:34and capacity, but it also has the

27:36ability to um take the east plant

27:40wastewater flows. And we

27:44um I think informed everyone when we

27:46were doing the previous bond

27:48presentations that we will need to come

27:51back and get approval to turn the east

27:54plant into a pump station and pump the

27:56waste water to the main plant. Um so we

27:59don't have bond approval for that yet

28:01but we are um looking to do that in the

28:05near future. We here we're estimating um

28:082028

28:09and and then we also want to mention

28:12that there will be uh future needs as

28:14well. So that would be stage three where

28:16there would be additional items at main

28:20and north. We're not really touching

28:22north at all right now with any

28:24improvements

28:25>> and you'll see in a future slide, you

28:27know, the capacity that we have at North

28:29is important to our overall housing

28:31goals.

28:32>> Um, one other thing just to highlight

28:34something that will be coming uh in

28:36advance of any sort of bond in 2028, but

28:39is a piece of the East Plant project

28:41when we redo Cherry Street. Um, we're

28:44going to be upgrading the sewer there,

28:45making it much larger because that's the

28:48that's the place where the flow is going

28:49to come. one of the pipes where the flow

28:51is going to come from East Plant. So,

28:53there's money in the 2025 for that piece

28:58of the larger East Plant project. So,

29:00we're we're laying down the the yellow

29:02brick road of all the things that we

29:04need to do so that we can get that flow

29:07to main plant um and add the two

29:11permitted capacities of the two plants

29:13because a lot of a lot of our increased

29:16housing capacity is the abil like

29:17there's a lot of capacity left in the

29:19east plant system and by bringing

29:21bringing our two permitted flows

29:23together we're able to leverage

29:25additional opportunities for housing

29:27growth. So, you and I could talk offline

29:30when you be or can you

29:33um quantify that in terms of

29:39>> there they're estimates because there's

29:40a couple things I just want to be

29:42completely transparent it is a moving

29:43target

29:44>> because main plant is very affected by

29:47wet weather flow our base flows go up

29:50and down

29:51>> um so for instance if we look at just

29:53last year then it looks like we have a

29:56ton of capacity because it's been very

29:57dry so Martin looked at the last three

30:00years, which is a good combination of

30:01sort of dry weather and wet weather. Um,

30:04and so when when we crunch those

30:06numbers,

30:08uh, doing this expansion in particular,

30:11you can look at all the different things

30:12we're doing at main plant and there is a

30:14lot. There's kind of two big things that

30:16I'm excited about, which is, uh, the

30:19additional aeration tanks, which are the

30:21ones that are going to go in Perkins

30:23Beer um, expanding northward. That is

30:27really the that's what adds the

30:28treatment capacity of the plant. And so

30:31these improvements are going to add

30:33capacity for an additional roughly 2500

30:35to 3500 residential units um for a total

30:40of about 6,500 to 9,200

30:44um residential units that could happen I

30:47would say outside of the north end. So

30:49old north end, downtown, east end, all

30:52of that. So everything other than the

30:54avenue. Um, I say residential the

30:59equivalent residential units. So if we

31:01have hotels, if we have industry that

31:03comes in and uses a lot of water, that

31:06will take it up. We we that's the total

31:08amount of flow that if we decided we

31:10weren't doing anything else other than

31:11building housing, then we could

31:12potentially build that. Um, North Plant

31:16alone has an additional has capacity for

31:19like the 4200 to 6,000 residential

31:21units. So on total across the city, we

31:25look like we can hit in this sort of

31:2710,000 to 15,000 residential units.

31:30Again, if we just did housing and we

31:32didn't have other things that will also

31:35gobble up the water. Um, so we're going

31:38to be keeping an eye on that number and

31:39obviously keeping an eye on what it does

31:41as climate change happens and whatnot.

31:43But this is what we wanted to be able to

31:46tell the city that, you know, if we do

31:48these things and if we also eventually

31:50invest in North Plant, right? We can't

31:52just run her into the ground,

31:54>> um, then we're going to be able to

31:56deliver on hopefully the housing that

31:59the city wants to to have happen. Um,

32:02the other piece that Martin mentioned

32:04was the absolutely 100% maximizing

32:08phosphor phosphorous removal. We are

32:10bringing it to the limits of technology.

32:11There is not a way to get more

32:13phosphorus out of our wastewater at this

32:15point. Maybe in 20 years there'll be

32:17some other technology, but right now

32:19this is this is what we can do. And so

32:20we're going to be meeting or exceeding

32:22our regulatory obligations. That's

32:24already paid dividends with our ability

32:26to take over some storm water systems

32:28that would have otherwise had to do

32:30their own upgrades, but because we're

32:32handling it at wastewater, we're able to

32:34take them over and and have a different

32:36partnership. Um, and then

32:39beyond that, beyond those sort of like

32:41exciting things, just replacing the

32:44stuff that's there because if we fail to

32:46replace the good working parts of the

32:49plant right now, we will go a little

32:51backwards and we cannot do that. Does

32:54this answer your question? Um,

32:55>> yeah,

32:56>> just out of curiosity, you

32:59>> keep a running total. So, if next week

33:02somebody comes in with a proposal, do

33:03you go?

33:04>> So, I I should have also said this. This

33:06does not um this is the total from what

33:09our what who's connected now to before.

33:11I didn't back out the um what we call

33:14the reserve capacity where we've given

33:17somebody a letter saying you could

33:18connect we do have a running list of

33:20those big projects. Um so this is this

33:24would include those as well. So if some

33:27if we already have a thousand I forget I

33:28think we have like I forget how many

33:31units on the books already but that

33:33would be backed out of this.

33:34>> Okay. Um the other thing the reason why

33:35there's a range is that the lower range

33:37is representative of the design flow

33:40which is what the engineers in the state

33:42use but as people connect we usually see

33:45that they're using less water than what

33:47the engineering calculations say. So

33:50that's representative the the bigger

33:51number and to the extent that most

33:53redevelopment and development has you

33:55know lowflow fixtures I think that's

33:58going to hold hold true but it it's a

34:00little bit not a science

34:06um so the one thing that is it's a it's

34:09scary um but we are keeping calm and not

34:13freaking out yet uh with the 30% design

34:16and this often happens right as you get

34:18into the final design, the engineers

34:22start layering more and more costs on.

34:25And so as of right now, our design

34:28estimate is more than what our bond

34:31value was. Um the reason why we're not

34:34worried right now is that we are early.

34:36Uh there is additional geotechnical work

34:38to be done. So they've done a little bit

34:40of geotechnical poking in the ground and

34:43what they saw was like, okay, the soils

34:46aren't great for our structural

34:47capacity. Um but we need to do more of

34:49that to sort of characterize if that's a

34:51all over the place issue or just

34:53pockets. Is that correct? Yes.

34:55>> Um there's a lot more value engineering

34:56that can be done. Like the project that

34:58we're putting forward is the needed

35:01project, but we there are things that

35:04could be backed out and that's something

35:05that we're looking into and looking into

35:07numbers that could be crunched. We don't

35:08want to do that if we don't have to, but

35:10that would be something we would be

35:12prepared to do. And then one of the

35:14values of the or the benefits of the

35:16Seaar contractor, these folk, they're

35:18it's having the general contractor there

35:20with you. So the engineer may be

35:22designing it a certain way. And the hope

35:24is the Seamar is like, well, if you did

35:26this, this, and this, you could save

35:27yourself 15%, right? I've had that

35:30happen in my own house where I wanted a

35:32a kitchen island of a certain length.

35:34And they're like, if you just shrink it

35:35by two feet, you're going to save

35:36yourself a ton because you're not going

35:38to have waste. So, we fully hope and

35:41anticipate that this number is going to

35:43>> start shrinking down as well. Um, we

35:46we're going to be doing more in geotech

35:48as soon as we can, so we might have a

35:49better idea about whether or not those

35:51structural concerns are valid. But

35:53certainly by the early of the summer of

35:552027 when we expect to have the 60%

35:58design, we should have a better report

36:00on like are we in are we in trouble

36:02here?

36:05Um

36:08I think a number of you are familiar

36:10with the Seymar uh delivery method. Uh

36:13you recommended it to us um as did our

36:16third party engineer when we came to ask

36:18you for money. Um so this a lot of this

36:20is more for the public of just reminding

36:23people what Seamar is. The contractors

36:25brought on very early. They acted the

36:27general contractor. They pro provided

36:29guaranteed maximum price which hopefully

36:32is going to give us a lot of advanced

36:33knowledge about what the cost of our

36:35project is going to be versus waiting

36:37until we open that bid envelope and we

36:40don't like what we see. Um again that

36:43approach was requested by you all. We've

36:45worked really hard really really hard

36:47burn in particular to get the state

36:49because it was a new thing for them.

36:50They've never done Semar with SRF

36:53dollars and we wanted to make sure that

36:55doing SEMAR wasn't going to completely

36:57um mean that we couldn't use Clean Water

37:00SRF. Uh so we have been able to do that.

37:03Um and so we I think we are also as

37:05we've learned more about it are very

37:07very excited and hope that you are too.

37:11Um this is just sort of a summary of the

37:14of the three different contracts that

37:16we're asking you to approve. We've got

37:19an amendment to the engineering

37:20contract. So, increasing their amount.

37:23We previously had only authorized to get

37:26them to the 30% design because we wanted

37:28to get there before we brought the

37:29Seymar folks in. Um, so that value is

37:33there. There is the Seymar contract.

37:35Now, a couple things we acknowledge, you

37:37know, PC Construction was the sole

37:39respondent. We I don't know if Martin

37:42can detail you directly sent it to

37:44multiple uh Seamar qualified contractors

37:48throughout the region and for a variety

37:50of reasons I think location timing so on

37:52and so forth we didn't have any other

37:54biders um when we we worked with PC

37:58construction they have excellent

37:59references and they have really deep

38:01experience with water and wastewater

38:02projects um and so we feel very

38:05comfortable advancing with them

38:07remembering that we still have outs when

38:10they give us the guaranteed maximum

38:12price or if there's something about our

38:13relationship changes throughout these

38:14next you know year we don't have to keep

38:18going with them. Um so we are making

38:20that recommendation that we go ahead and

38:22and advance uh on the Seymar owner's

38:25advisor contract. Uh this is a pretty

38:28industry standard position and the

38:30difference between just hiring a regular

38:32owner's adviser is that we this this

38:35owner's adviser has deep experience in

38:37the seamar world. Uh Martin's getting

38:40pretty good up to speed with Semar, but

38:42having somebody else who really worked

38:44on these projects and knows how the ins

38:46and outs worked, we feel is going to be

38:47extremely valuable. There were three

38:49respondents and Stantech was by far and

38:52large uh the most qualified of those

38:54three respondents. Um and so in total,

38:57we are going to be asking for

38:59authorization of those three contracts.

39:01uh a loan amendment going back to the

39:03SRF for about 6.3 million for a total

39:06step two loan of five 8.5.

39:10Um

39:13just lastly, financial considerations.

39:16Uh those of you who saw the FY27 budget

39:19presentation, we've been able to keep

39:21our actual rates within or below the

39:25previously projected five-year rate

39:27plans. Um, there are risks the project

39:30costs. I am becoming probably in the

39:33last month more concerned about the

39:36availability of the clean water SRF

39:38dollars. Um, and I can get into that a

39:40little bit more with any of you later

39:42on. as well as on the drinking water

39:44side. Um there's been some changes that

39:45have come down from EPA, not just the

39:47funding amount, but how they're

39:48administering the money that's making

39:50things a little bit more challenging and

39:53might be pushing us towards the revenue

39:55bond market, which is concerning given

39:57interest rates, those revenue bond

40:00interest rates are not definitely not

40:02going to be as great as SRF. So that's

40:04something I'm going to be crunching the

40:05numbers on and trying to figure out what

40:07that's going to do to our rate plan

40:09curve just so we can start talking.

40:11Where does that money come from?

40:12>> The SRF.

40:13>> Yeah.

40:14>> Uh from EPA.

40:15>> So the um the EGA the or bill money is

40:20going away. So that's reduced things. Um

40:23and then uh additionally EPA uh for

40:26instance planning planning projects used

40:29to always just get funded and now they

40:30have to be ranked which is making them

40:33ranked very low because they don't have

40:34all of the meat that a construction

40:36project does. Um, and so now whereas we

40:39used to be able to do SRF loans for

40:41planning projects, we may have to do

40:43revenue bonds or I'm not I'm not quite

40:46haven't quite figured it all out, but it

40:48is a wrench in what had been a very

40:51consistent um program for a very long

40:54time. I had an hourlong phone call with

40:56them today trying to figure this all

40:58out. So

40:59>> is Stantech as your owner's rep familiar

41:02with financing as well as construction?

41:05Um, I don't know if they'd be familiar

41:06with financing so much as figuring out

41:08like cash flow needs. They might help

41:10with that. Um, we've got Rapellis

41:12Financial Consultants who is an expert

41:14on the water side and then we have PFM

41:16who works for the city who helps with

41:18the sort of larger bond market stuff.

41:21They're some of my next phone calls.

41:23>> The first one you mentioned,

41:24>> uh, Rafalis Financial Consultants.

41:26They're they're very well known in the

41:28water space. They're the ones who have

41:30helped us overhaul our rates, our

41:32affordability program, all of that.

41:34Steam Techch does have a big pool of

41:36resources. So yes,

41:38>> and they know that we can track how the

41:40project is being financed so that we're

41:43not getting ahead of ourselves.

41:45So that's been highlighted very clearly

41:48with them. cash cash flow will be a big

41:51thing we'll have to figure out because

41:53even if they gave us 125 million of SRF

41:56SRF is reimbursement based and so we'd

41:58have to figure out how to float the

42:01invoices until we could get the

42:03reimbursement. So the rate plan has

42:07always envisioned some revenue bond and

42:09some SRF. I'm just worried that the SRF

42:11portion may may be shrinking um and then

42:14need to be working with the

42:16administration and others to start

42:18really going back to the legislature and

42:21encouraging them to maybe come up with

42:24other methods of lowc cost.

42:25>> Is there any state money?

42:27>> Pardon?

42:27>> Is there state money?

42:28>> There's very small amount of state money

42:30that I think gets put into the SRF and I

42:32can try to break that out. But they they

42:33could put more or they could uh in my

42:37opinion unlock some of the borrowing

42:39capacity of the state.

42:40>> Yes.

42:40>> To make these important investments.

42:43>> I say that from a housing point of view.

42:45>> Yes.

42:46>> But but like if they start unlocking it

42:48for housing, it's not going to be great

42:51if we can't have the water wastewater.

42:52So they need to be part.

42:55>> Yeah.

42:58>> Need a bigger pie.

43:01>> Thank you for the presentation. I just

43:02open up for a little bit before I see

43:04you are ready for more open questions or

43:07comments from the board.

43:11>> I sort of filled my

43:15>> I like popcorn questions.

43:20>> Um and thank you some of this too. Um,

43:25in terms of your concern about the

43:29project costs,

43:31like when do you think you'll start to

43:33get more clarity out of that or is that

43:36too open?

43:37>> No, I think um you

43:39>> they're gonna they're going to provide

43:41and as that's one of their first tasks

43:43as PC construction as the C bar is

43:46delegated to the cost estimate. I mean

43:49that's their biggest one of their

43:51biggest functions is detailed cost

43:54estimating and they're made before

43:56December January if we get this contract

43:58underway.

43:59>> So that was the size was 131 145

44:04sort of so we'll get we'll get that

44:07narrowed down significantly.

44:09>> I think we'll either get it narrowed

44:10down confirmed right um do you know when

44:14the geotech is maybe happening? Do you

44:16know if they're going to be able to do

44:17that before winter? I mean, that's

44:19that's the also talked about it. So,

44:22>> I mean, I would hope in three to four

44:25months, like we're not going to be

44:26waiting fully until next next summer. In

44:30three to four months, we hopefully will

44:32have a better Oh, geez, this looks like

44:34it might be a real number and then we

44:37need to start working hard at okay, what

44:39what could be cut? And there are there's

44:42one thing in particular that could be

44:45cut. um the fifth clarifier, which we

44:47don't want to because operationally it

44:49provides a great deal of resiliency and

44:51we will likely ultimately need it as we

44:53get towards the end of those like if

44:55we're successful with our housing, we

44:57will need that extra um capacity,

45:01but we could live with it for a little

45:03while, you know, without it. Um then

45:06it's going to be more expensive when we

45:07have to come back and build it. So, it's

45:08just a lot of stuff to weigh.

45:10>> That's the that's the last clarifier in

45:12the stream that Yeah. Right.

45:17Are you affected at all? Like the tariff

45:19stuff

45:21the war with Canada?

45:23>> I don't know if we've looked into that

45:25specifically yet.

45:26>> I mean, I think since co nothing's

45:29really ever calmed down with and then so

45:31now I feel like that's a new layer. It

45:33was like there's a lot of inflation and

45:36then now the contractors are saying

45:38there's tariff issues and so those are

45:39kind of like things that

45:42um we don't necessarily see it impact

45:44price. We see it impacts schedule, but

45:47it imp it doesn't create change orders.

45:49It creates an issue with the upfront

45:51price. So, they probably are marching it

45:53up earlier when they're coming in with

45:56their pricing. Um, and there could be

46:00delays associated with it.

46:01>> There's still a fair amount. I mean, I

46:03forget what percent contingency we still

46:06are holding.

46:07>> Yeah. you know, even a 10% contingency

46:10on

46:10>> I didn't know if the things we need to

46:13buy, so to speak, are would be of that

46:18nature. You know,

46:19>> a lot of equipment is manufactured

46:22overseas. So, like some of our screens,

46:25there's Italian manu happens to be

46:28Italian manufacturer. So,

46:33nothing is untouched today.

46:36Anything

46:38else for [clears throat]

46:41our team?

46:44Is there a motion?

46:47>> Um, before I make a motion, this

46:50presentation is like reflected in this

46:52memo. You also put the presentation on

46:56agenda.

46:57>> Yes. Yes. We had we had the previous

46:59presentation, but we were able to

47:01>> right

47:01>> add a little more detail.

47:02>> We'll add this as a standalone item to

47:04the packet. Thank you. Um and with that

47:07then I would make the motion

47:11council

47:13council carpenter any further discussion

47:16before we vote

47:18>> just one comment on that last thing

47:20where you were talking about the

47:21different roles

47:22>> you don't have to read in you know like

47:25rather than you don't have to like say

47:29PC is the seam you know right Pierce is

47:33the

47:34>> owner's

47:35[clears throat] It just didn't

47:37>> It's in there, but it you might want to

47:39>> You want me to like on the left hand

47:41side maybe?

47:42>> Where?

47:43>> I can do that. Yeah,

47:44>> it just doesn't.

47:44>> No, no, please. And if you have any

47:46>> because when I read the memos and I'm

47:48sure we'll have food. I get confused

47:51about

47:52>> That's right.

47:53>> Yeah.

47:54>> It's a lot a lot of players [laughter]

47:55in the kitchen. So,

47:56>> that's easy thing to add.

47:59>> Thank you, counselor. Any other comments

48:01or questions before I call the question?

48:05Okay, seeing none, all in favor indicate

48:07by saying I

48:10nay. Motion carries the teamw.

48:14>> Thanks for giving us so much time.

48:15>> Yes, of course. And with no other

48:17business for the board of finance, I

48:19will journ for 50°.

48:23>> Thank you.

48:27[music]

48:28Hey,

48:33>> [music]

48:41>> hey, [music]

48:43hey.