2026-10-28 - Planning Commission

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04:59>> We're going to go ahead and get started.

05:00Um, and we will begin by taking role.

05:07Amy Burroughs

05:09>> here.

05:10Richard Oh, he's not here. Ben Raskin

05:14>> here.

05:15>> Laya Rosenfield

05:17>> here.

05:18>> Brian Scott

05:19>> here.

05:20>> Anna Sullivan

05:21>> here. It's a quorum.

05:24>> All right. Um

05:26I will move on to the report of the

05:29chair and the vice chair. Um, the only

05:32thing I have is that we are having a

05:35pseudo new but returning member rejoin

05:37the committee. So, Laneon Grassic will

05:39be joining us again. Um,

05:43and report of the director.

05:47>> Nothing to report this evening. Thank

05:48you.

05:49>> Okay.

05:50Then we will move into our open forum.

05:53So, um, there's a 10-minute section

05:55where if we have any, um, anything we'd

05:58like to bring up that's not directly

05:59tied to an item on the agenda or

06:01initiate something, then we can talk

06:03about that.

06:05>> I have a quick question for staff. Is

06:07that in order? Um it was reported that

06:11that there's been discussions in city

06:12council of modifying the um expanded

06:16housing options that we discussed or and

06:19approved as my understanding um last

06:22session. Um does that come back to us or

06:25is it just entirely in their court now?

06:28>> It's entirely in their court. Yeah.

06:32>> Thank you.

06:32>> You're welcome.

06:37All right, then we will move along to

06:39our consent agenda. Um, so there are two

06:43items

06:45uh on the consent agenda. Um, one is the

06:48approval of the minutes for September

06:4923rd, 2026, and the second is the

06:53conditional use and design review at

06:54approximately 424 South Redwood Road.

06:58Um, and I'll go ahead and open the

06:59public hearing. So, if there's anyone

07:00here um who wants to speak on that

07:03conditional use and design review.

07:07Nope. All right. Then I'll go ahead and

07:09close the public comment on that and

07:11bring it back to the commission.

07:14>> I'll make a motion to approve the two

07:16agenda items.

07:17>> I actually I would I would like to move

07:19to remove the conditional use and design

07:21review to the regular agenda if that's

07:24okay. Like obviously you move first. So

07:26somebody seconds you you can still stand

07:28on that. But

07:33[clears throat]

07:34>> Commissioner Le, can you please just

07:36note that you are now here at the

07:38meeting for the record?

07:40>> Commissioner Le reporting for duty.

07:42>> Thank you.

07:44>> Um so we had a motion but no second. So

07:47that dies I mean on both of them. So if

07:50you want to go ahead and do that again.

07:51>> Um okay. I'd like to move that we remove

07:54conditional use and design review uh at

07:56approximately 424 South Redwood Road to

07:59the regular agenda.

08:04>> I'll second that.

08:05>> Okay, we have a motion and a second. Go

08:08ahead and vote.

08:11>> Commissioner Burroughs,

08:13yes. Commissioner Leett,

08:16>> yes.

08:17>> Commissioner Raskin,

08:20>> yes. Commissioner Rosenfield,

08:23>> yes.

08:24>> Commissioner Scott,

08:25>> yes.

08:26>> Commissioner Sullivan,

08:27>> yes. Pass.

08:29>> All right, that will move to the regular

08:31agenda. Um, do we have a motion about

08:34the minutes?

08:35>> I'll make a motion to approve the

08:36minutes for September 23rd.

08:38>> I'll Oh, I can't second, I don't think.

08:41>> Second.

08:42>> All right, we've got a motion in a

08:44second.

08:45>> Commissioner Burroughs?

08:47>> Yes.

08:48>> Commissioner Leit?

08:50>> Yes. Commissioner Raskin,

08:52>> yes.

08:53>> Commissioner Rosenfield,

08:54>> abstain for the reason that I was not

08:56present at the previous meeting and have

08:57not reviewed the minutes.

08:58>> Commissioner Scott,

09:00>> yes.

09:01>> Commissioner Sullivan,

09:02>> yes.

09:03>> Pass.

09:04>> All right. Great. Then we will move into

09:07our regular agenda and that first item

09:08that or yeah, we just moved that to the

09:11front, right? Uh to the conditional use

09:12and design review at approximately 424

09:14South Redwood Road. Staff would like to

09:17give their presentation.

09:31For the record, it looks like Landon

09:33Cross is arrived.

09:37Sorry about that.

09:43Okay. Testing, testing. Okay, perfect.

09:47So this is for the conditional use and

09:48design review for the Quick Trip gas

09:50station at 424 South Redwood Road.

09:55The lot is a split zone lot. It's zoned

09:58MU5 and MU1. The actual site for the gas

10:02station is on the MU5 portion. So it was

10:05reviewed against the MU5 standards. Um

10:07these this is two requests. So one is

10:09for a conditional use because a gas

10:11station is a conditional use within this

10:13zone. So they have to have that

10:15approval. And then the second is for a

10:17design review to request modifications

10:19from the MU5 design standards. The first

10:23one being a reduction in building

10:25entrance standards on the north facade

10:27which faces 400 south. Um they will be

10:31providing an employee entrance which

10:32I'll get into that soon. But they will

10:35not be providing a pedestrian entrance.

10:37So that's what the requested um

10:40modification is. And the second

10:43requested modification is to reduce the

10:45ground floor glass on the northwest and

10:47eastern facides. And staff has

10:50recommended approval with conditions.

10:51And I know there was some confusion

10:53about the conditions. Um the first

10:55condition is routine um stuff that they

10:58have to go through after. So a lot line

11:00adjustment. And then the second is tied

11:02to a standard which I'll go through in a

11:03little bit.

11:06Just a little bit of site context. It is

11:08on the intersection of 400 South and

11:10Redwood Road. The existing site is a

11:12used car dealership. And you can see the

11:14parcel does go into the rightofway,

11:16which is part of the reason why it needs

11:18the the lot needs to be adjusted along

11:20with their proposed site plan.

11:24So, here's some more pictures of the

11:25existing context. Um, you can see on the

11:28left, that's the sidewalk that abuts 400

11:31South and then on the picture to the

11:33right is a portion of the sidewalk that

11:36faces Redwood Road.

11:40A little bit of background on the

11:41proposal. So, here's the site plan. You

11:44can see in the south end is where the

11:45gas pumps are proposed to be and the

11:47customer entrance is on the south

11:49portion of the building facing those gas

11:51pumps. Um, due to MU5 setbacks, which

11:55have a maximum setback, the building is

11:56in the top right corner of the parcel.

11:59So, because the gas pumps were in the

12:01south end, it made the most sense to

12:03have the front of the building face

12:05those gas pumps towards the south.

12:09The standards approval that were looked

12:11at were the conditional use standards,

12:12the standards for design review along

12:14with the MU5 standards and then gas

12:16station standards.

12:19First, I just wanted to go over the

12:21conditional use analysis. So, I looked

12:22at the Westside master plan Salt Lake

12:25compatibility with surrounding uses and

12:27the conditional use standards. Um, the

12:30Westside master plan does call for more

12:33commercial uses in this zone. It does

12:36identify this corner as a regional node

12:38and it addresses Redwood Road and states

12:42that the west side of Redwood Road has

12:44historically had manufacturing uses and

12:47it calls for a transition into

12:49commercial uses. But within the plan, it

12:51also does state that gas stations do

12:53serve westside residents.

12:58Some goals of plan Salt Lake um

13:01connecting through transit,

13:04keep the growth of Salt Lake as an

13:05economic center of the region, improve

13:08existing and develop new relationships

13:10with economic development partners and

13:12support the growth of the industrial

13:13areas of the city.

13:17So for the conditional use, one thing we

13:19look at is the surrounding area and its

13:21compatibility. Um, in the bottom left

13:24you can see that directly across the

13:26street is a Maverick gas station which

13:27has been there. Um, on the top left that

13:31is a warehouse that's directly north

13:33across the street. And then on the right

13:37picture that's the parcel that butts

13:39directly where the proposed quick trip

13:41is going to go, which is a roofing and

13:44asphalt and paving business.

13:48For the conditional uses, there was no

13:50detrimental impacts identified and so

13:53staff has found that it complies with

13:55the proposed um or sorry the adopted

13:58plans.

14:01Along with this conditional use as a

14:02design review because of this lot's

14:05shape, it has an oddly shaped parcel in

14:08the north side. It has three street

14:10facing facades you can see in the yellow

14:13lines. I tried to identify it to make it

14:15make sense, but um they have three

14:19sides that need to meet these street

14:21facing design standards.

14:25Here you can see the internal building

14:27layout. Uh the bottom left, which

14:29coincides where the customer entrance

14:31is, is where the store is and then the

14:33circled areas. The top left and the top

14:36right are employee only areas. So work

14:39rooms, electrical, kitchen and then on

14:42the right are restrooms.

14:47The first modification was a reduction

14:49in building entrances. So they are

14:52providing an entrance on the north

14:54facade. However, it is proposed to only

14:56be for employees due to the internal

14:59configuration of the building.

15:03The second is a modification to the

15:05glass requirements. MU5 [snorts]

15:07requires a minimum of 60% ground floor

15:09glass

15:12and they are not providing that 60% on

15:15the northwest or east facads. So the

15:17request is for all three of those facads

15:19and the reason for this is similar to

15:22the one for the building is that it is

15:25employee only in that you would be able

15:27to look in and see employee activities.

15:30um you could see into the restrooms and

15:33you could see the kitchen and so spaces

15:35that wouldn't

15:38need transparency.

15:41So here you can see the north facade

15:44to mitigate not having transparent

15:46glass. They've provided spandrel glass

15:48and they've also had some signage and

15:50branding

15:53on the west facade. They do have some

15:55transparent glass and they also have a

15:58customer entrance on the right and then

16:00an employee entrance on the left but

16:01some signage as well and a canopy. And

16:04then the east facade which abuts

16:06directly the restrooms also has some

16:08spandrel glass which is not transparent.

16:13Through review, we determined that it

16:15meets the standards for design review in

16:1721A 59050

16:20and staff are is recommending approval

16:23with the following conditions that they

16:26submit for a lot line adjustment prior

16:27to the issuance of a building permit.

16:29There's conditions with that lot line

16:31adjustment that are outlined in the

16:32staff report as well. And then the

16:34second condition which this does tie to

16:36a design standard is that they are

16:38required to in their plans provide a

16:41pedestrian walkway connecting the

16:43sidewalk to the building entrance.

16:48And then any questions? The applicant is

16:49also here and is ready to present as

16:51well.

16:52>> Okay. Um any clarifying questions?

16:56Uh would the applicant join us up here?

17:07Okay. And then if you have a

17:09presentation, feel free. You have time.

17:11>> Unfortunately, my computer is not

17:13cooperating.

17:13>> Okay.

17:14>> You don't you don't have to. So,

17:15>> I apologize.

17:16>> Can you please turn on your microphone?

17:19>> Thank you.

17:20>> Is that better?

17:22>> Yeah. Just talk close to the microphone

17:23so we can hear you.

17:26[clears throat]

17:26>> Okay. Um, in that case, I will open up

17:29for public comment on this.

17:32>> Just real quick, I want to introduce

17:33myself. Uh, I'm practicing key. I work

17:35for Quit Trip Corporation. Um, I've been

17:37with the company since I was 16 years

17:39old, so quite a long time. Um, it's a

17:42great company to work for. I think it'd

17:43be a great addition to your guys'

17:45community and I'm happy to field any

17:48questions you guys might have. Sweet.

17:50>> Thank you. Um, is there anyone here who

17:53would like to speak on this item?

17:57Then I'll go ahead and close public

17:59comment and bring it back to the

18:00commission.

18:04>> I have a couple questions. Um, first of

18:07all, uh, would this [clears throat]

18:09facility I I'm just I'm trying to read

18:11the canopy. Uh, is is this facility

18:14entirely designed for automobiles or is

18:16it designed for both automobiles and

18:17trucks?

18:18>> Uh, just automobiles.

18:19>> Okay. Yeah,

18:20>> gotcha. Um there is a loading zone on

18:22the eastern or western side of the

18:25property that is mainly for drop offs of

18:28vendors. So PepsiCo uh our QTD trucks

18:31which come in SMI,

18:32>> but it's not refueling for trucks. No.

18:34>> Okay, that's uh good to know. Um

18:37nevertheless, it's it's it's a it's a

18:39pretty substantial facility. Yeah. How

18:41many pumps is are there planned to be?

18:43>> Uh 10 MPDs in total. So 20 fueling

18:47positions. Uh

18:47>> 20 fueling positions. But there's only

18:4910 actual pumping terminals.

18:51>> Gotcha. Um

18:55it's just so you know we talk about the

18:58regional node. You read the Westside

19:00master plan. It emphasizes

19:02um public artwork signage uh uh

19:08accessibility without an automobile. Uh

19:11major activations for employment and

19:12community activities.

19:15I I understand that right like a gas

19:18station is a conditional use. Um so if

19:21if there are ways to mitigate the issues

19:23that have been identified, we have to

19:25approve it. Um but but from what I see

19:28right this this particular location, it

19:30is immediately adjacent to a freeway.

19:32This isn't necessarily like serving the

19:34beneficial use for for the immediate

19:36community. It's serving people coming

19:38off of the freeway. And while the truck

19:40the the the fact that it's not serving

19:42trucks is actually a positive

19:44mitigation. And I appreciate that that's

19:45the case. I I just I I have a hard time

19:49envisioning how there were you said

19:51there were no um negative impacts

19:55identified for the conditional use.

19:57>> No, no detrimental impacts.

19:59>> Okay. I I mean presumably this would

20:02draw more cars off of the freeway and

20:05down Redwood Road right next to the

20:08residential neighborhood which is

20:09already you know the west side is

20:12intensely impacted by environmental

20:15injustices, poor air quality. Um, so

20:18we're driving more cars off the freeway

20:20to fuel um passing communities, putting

20:25more pollutants into the community. And

20:27it's not necessarily right like this is

20:29not a gas station that's focused on on

20:32serving like Rose Park or or the West

20:34Side, Glendale specifically. It's it's a

20:37gas station that is a regional node.

20:39>> So I I do want to interject with you

20:42there. So we are actually not

20:44technically a gas station. that is only

20:46about 20% of our sales. Um, we are a

20:49convenience store.

20:50>> So, we have about 10,000 SKs inside of

20:53our facility. Um, that's anywhere from

20:57fresh food, so you have freshmade

20:59salads, sandwiches, we have crispy

21:01snacks. Um, we have more drink options

21:03than anybody else in our industry. Um,

21:06we have more snack options than anybody

21:08in our industry. We have energy drinks,

21:11we have Gatorades, we have water. I

21:13mean, we we serve a large majority of

21:16our customer base inside. So, about

21:19every seven out of every 10 customers

21:21that come to our lot are going inside

21:23for something. They're not they're not

21:25coming for fuel.

21:27Okay. I do I mean, do you have a rough

21:30estimate about what proportion of the

21:32folks coming into a facility like this

21:35are going to be coming because they're

21:37like road tripping or or traveling

21:39through town on the freeway versus the

21:41community.

21:42>> Yeah. You'll have people that come

21:43through because I mean that's just the

21:44nature of course convenience store is

21:46it's convenient. Somebody can stop get

21:48something quick. You can also fuel up

21:50your car. But a majority of our customer

21:52base is coming in dayto-day to get

21:53breakfast to get lunch to get dinner to

21:56get a quick snack to get away from their

21:58office to to do other things besides

22:01fuel their vehicle. Um, unfortunately

22:04because our business was built on fuel

22:06sales, that is just a draw to attract

22:1020% more clientele than we normally do.

22:12And we're trying to get away with from

22:14that in the future, but currently we're

22:16unable to because I mean that it is an

22:19attractor to our business. You are

22:20correct. It does attract people into our

22:22business, but that is not our main focus

22:24or our goal uh of our business.

22:26>> Got it. Thank you.

22:32I have two um thoughts. Not sure if

22:34they'll turn into motions or any

22:36changes, but um right now there's no

22:40retail um well, I guess pedestrian

22:44retail really on the west side of

22:46Redwood in that area. And so the

22:49cross-section of For and South and

22:51Redwood, you have a lot is very wide.

22:54Both those streets are very wide. And

22:55there are bus stations on um the on both

23:00sides of Fort South, right? And the

23:02Maverick there and there's a school

23:03there. So, there's a lot of foot

23:04traffic. There's a lot of people running

23:06across back and forth across the street

23:08uh trying to get back and forth to

23:09different buses going in each direction.

23:10And there are folks who now currently go

23:12to Maverick, which I assume would

23:14probably start crossing a second street

23:17to get to quick stop on the other side.

23:20So that's a lot of foot traffic across

23:22potentially

23:23six to eight lanes of traffic going at

23:25high speed in that area. So that's one

23:27thing that I I've noticed. Also, we're

23:29adding something in terms of um um a fix

23:33in terms of the window usage, but

23:36um I had a question for the applicant in

23:39that do you find that uh having an

23:42attractive front without uh pedestrian

23:45customer entrance entrances there. Would

23:47that attract people to that side of the

23:49building unknowingly that they can't get

23:51in that side?

23:53I I don't think it will because it's

23:55it's pretty apparent that you can't get

23:56in uh with that with the vestibial

23:59facade. And sorry, can you pull the mic

24:02a little closer?

24:03Is this better? Okay. Sorry. Um no, I I

24:08the way our building is designed and if

24:10you could go back to one of our

24:12elevations.

24:16>> Um

24:16>> do you have a specific one?

24:17>> Yeah, I actually have one's working now.

24:20>> Okay. If you want me to connect.

24:22>> Um,

24:24how does

24:28how can he connect to this? Does he

24:31connect to this cord

24:33if he wants to connect to his computer?

24:35>> Yes.

24:35>> Okay.

24:36>> To present.

24:37>> Is it this?

24:38>> Just switch spot.

24:39>> Yeah, it's the button.

24:40>> Sweet.

24:48>> Sorry. And then if you just click the

24:50click share for it to be read

25:05>> while we're waiting for that, I'll just

25:06say that the the reason for the question

25:08is I don't want to put a design

25:09requirement in place that that creates

25:11an unnecessary or uh unexpected problem

25:14of having people go to a side of a

25:15building that they can't get into.

25:17>> I I think it'll be pretty apparent that

25:20it's not an entrance just because the

25:22opposite facing side is very open. I

25:26mean, you can see straight through the

25:27store. The reasoning, as he presented in

25:30his presentation, for not putting that

25:32on the rear of the building is because

25:33you're just looking into a cooler, a

25:35freezer, or a kitchen area, which I I

25:38don't know that a lot of people want to

25:39look into that. That'd be like looking

25:40in the back of a Walmart. It's not it's

25:43not highly desirable. doesn't add to uh

25:46the enrichment of the area. But I I

25:50think this is a very well-dressed up

25:53model. Um this is a lot different than

25:55what we typically do. Our typical model

25:56is less architectural features. There's

25:59a lot less going on than there is.

26:04It's a long press.

26:07>> I'm actually not sure he'll be able to

26:09present if he doesn't have the app.

26:11Okay.

26:12>> Okay. here.

26:15I can [laughter]

26:17I can bring it to you, but but I I it is

26:20very apparent in in the design in the

26:22front facade that pedestrians are meant

26:24to go into that front facade. We're

26:26trying to get everybody to come into the

26:27same entrance so that we have visibility

26:30uh for our employees, but also our

26:32customers know there's only one, you

26:34know, true entrance. The side entrance

26:36is mainly to service people who are

26:38coming in and out quickly. for

26:39restrooms. Uh we do have eight

26:41restrooms, individual restrooms on this

26:44site. Um so each each one's an

26:46individual stall. You can go in, lock

26:48the door, you're the only one in there.

26:50Um I know my wife loves this design

26:52because she can take our two kids in

26:55with her. She can lock the door behind

26:56her and she doesn't have to worry about

26:57anybody else entering the restroom with

27:00her, having to worry about our kids

27:01running around and causing chaos.

27:05>> Awesome. Thank you.

27:14anyone else or

27:16>> I guess this is a kind of a comment for

27:20staff generally. Um

27:23uh I would like to see a way that we can

27:26incentivize these regional nodes to be

27:30um

27:31utilized to uh direct us towards the um

27:37plan Salt Lake goals. Um we reading the

27:41staff report it it was very clear like

27:43okay well it says this in Plan Salt Lake

27:46but in this case we're gonna move past

27:49that. Um and a regional node um

27:56I think ought to embody the the goals

27:59that the city has and if we are

28:02incentivizing

28:04um other kinds of uses. Um

28:09I I just I would like to see the these

28:12kinds of places becoming pedestrian

28:15cores instead of a place where you drive

28:18um the an autocentric uh environment. So

28:23if there's a way that we can start to

28:25look at um incentives for regional

28:29nodes, I would love that. And if we want

28:32to start thinking about that as a

28:33commission to like have a formal

28:35proposal to think about how to

28:38incentivize regional nodes, I would love

28:40to think about that at some point. Um I

28:44don't have any comments for your

28:45specific project.

28:47>> I just have a clarifying question. Do

28:49when you say that regional nodes, you

28:51mean specifically in the westside master

28:52plan?

28:52>> Yeah, the westside master plan map. Um

28:55yeah.

28:55>> Okay. Thank you.

28:57I just I mean I want to comment a little

29:00bit about the discussion about like

29:01food. Um you know like I I love a

29:05convenience store. I live right down the

29:06street from 7-Eleven. I also live two

29:07blocks away from Smiths. And so if you

29:10know I need to grab a Gatorade I can go

29:12to the 7-Eleven. But ultimately if I

29:14need to um need to get you know healthy

29:19food I can go to the Smiths. Um page 37

29:22of plan Salt Lake the equity plan um

29:26equity component of the plan say says

29:28quote as a city we value access

29:30accessibility in all access to our all

29:32aspects of our community from access to

29:34public housing amenities and events to

29:36healthy food housing employment

29:38education and recreation. Um my concern

29:41is my understanding and and I'm maybe a

29:44little bit behind on the literature on

29:45this is that uh in locations that are

29:48already food deserts that already have

29:50limited access to food um the opening of

29:53new convenience stores does not help

29:54mitigate and in fact can worsen um that

29:58food inequity. And so again, I I think

30:02I'm just concerned that, you know, we're

30:05looking at this project, you go through

30:07the list, you say, "Right, well, it

30:09doesn't really serve many aspects of the

30:11plan."

30:13I I personally I'm I'm a little

30:15concerned that there were not we did not

30:17look as as strongly at the impacts in

30:19terms of additional cars on Redwood

30:22Road. I know Redwood Road is like it is

30:24it is the most dangerous road in our

30:26city already, but I think every step of

30:29that, you know, road, every step down

30:31that path can potentially make the

30:33problem worse. Um,

30:36I just like I I think that that if if

30:40we're looking at this as a conditional

30:42use, as a can we mitigate the harms in

30:44this location for this specific project,

30:47I do not believe it is possible to do

30:49so.

30:51I think if we are going to um

30:55I think in order to do that we'd have to

30:57figure out how to quantify the harms. In

31:00order to have a decision that's based on

31:04evidence, we have to say this is the

31:06harm and this is the way that we are uh

31:10affecting that. So if we wanted to try

31:12to um ask the table the discussion with

31:18a directive to X Y or Z for staff or to

31:24quantify some particular harm then

31:26that's an option but I don't think that

31:28we can reject this for something that is

31:34uh that one could perceive as public

31:37clamor. uh like we have to say this is

31:41the quantifiable thing. So um

31:46uh I hear you um that uh I would like to

31:51see the the side that I live on, the

31:55west side, have

31:57more access, but what is the the

32:01quantifiable thing and what do we as a

32:03commission do about that? Well, I mean,

32:05I think that the the obvious first

32:06question would be um

32:10like what what is the impact in terms of

32:12drivers and and in terms of number of

32:14increased vehicles along Redwood Road

32:17along 400 South, the increased quantity

32:20of pollutants um on the west side from

32:23people fueling up in this particular

32:24area. Um and then also uh potentially I

32:29don't I don't know because right

32:30convenience stores I don't think on

32:31their own are conditional use. I don't

32:32know if we can actually quantify the the

32:35impact in terms of the food desert or or

32:38or um produce inequality on the west

32:43side. But certainly if that is if that

32:45is within the bounds of what of a topic

32:47that we can look at when considering

32:48this project as a whole, I think that

32:50would be the third thing.

32:50>> I I do want to interject again. So as

32:53part of the requirement for submitt uh

32:55with UD do we did have to do a traffic

32:56impact study?

32:57>> So we we do have those numbers that I

32:59can give to you.

33:00>> Okay.

33:00>> After this meeting. If Yeah, go for it.

33:03>> Um, yeah, I I I think what Landon was

33:06getting at is if that's the direction we

33:08go, then we should make a motion to

33:11table it and give staff some direction

33:12on on further impacts that we believe

33:15have been missed um and would like them

33:17to look into further. Um so

33:23>> if there is readily readily available

33:25traffic impact studies that would

33:27satisfy

33:29um a comment that is here then like does

33:34uh yes I guess like

33:38do thank you a motion would be lovely

33:41that [laughter]

33:42thank you chair that yeah I'm sorry

33:44>> that

33:45>> but there is a note in in here saying

33:49there are expected to be no adverse tra

33:51traffic impacts like we have that

33:54information

33:58>> um

34:00I mean do how are we defining adverse

34:03traffic impacts according to this

34:06>> this item has been routed to

34:07transportation so that's based on the

34:09feedback that we've gotten from them and

34:11they didn't identify any transportation

34:13impacts

34:15So,

34:18um

34:20>> to me the question isn't necessarily

34:22what are the adverse impacts. It's it is

34:26this meeting

34:28the conditional use requirements

34:31yes or no. To me the answer is yes. I

34:34mean the the question is like dug right

34:38the the question about conditional uses

34:40according to code um

34:44um

34:46conditional uses are allowed unless

34:49appropriate conditions cannot be applied

34:51which in the judgment of the planning

34:52commission would mitigate adverse

34:54impacts that may arise by introducing a

34:57conditional use to the particular site.

35:00I would say that in in my judgment not

35:04knowing I mean you don't have the

35:05numbers off the top of your head do you

35:07um

35:08>> do not uh my engineer is here though she

35:11might

35:11>> do you want to

35:13>> can we ran out

35:15>> I guess I I don't know that we want to

35:17litigate this back and forth like this I

35:19think that okay

35:20>> I I think the direction that if that's

35:22the case then make a motion to table

35:24with that direction to staff and then we

35:25can

35:26>> Yes. Um, a as you're considering that,

35:30also consider that whatever goes in here

35:33at some point will have some type of

35:35impact that that there will be customers

35:38or or residents coming to it. So,

35:42you probably need to look for some

35:44specific impact that's created by a gas

35:46station.

35:48Um, and we haven't been able to find any

35:51as as indicated on our staff report. Um,

35:54so just keep that in mind. Is is is this

35:57use any more impactful in a different

36:00way than than another type of use that

36:03would go in here that is also permitted?

36:07>> Can I ask if this specific project, this

36:09specific application needs to meet the

36:11new gas station rules that we have

36:14discussed? I'm not sure if those have

36:16passed or if they were entitled under

36:17that.

36:18>> It does. Yeah, we I reviewed those

36:20standards and it complies with those.

36:22Those are in the staff report.

36:29>> Um, if it comes to chair, I would like

36:31to make make a motion to um that the

36:35commission approved the conditional

36:36loose application as recommended by the

36:37staff.

36:38>> Okay, we have a motion. Do we have a

36:39second?

36:40>> Second.

36:42>> All right, let's go ahead and vote.

36:44>> Commissioner Burroughs.

36:47>> Um, yes. I I want to make sure that that

36:50includes the conditions that are

36:51presented by the staff. If it does, then

36:53I'll vote yes.

36:55>> Commissioner Cassic,

36:57>> yes.

36:58>> Commissioner Lebert,

36:59>> yes.

37:00>> Commissioner Raskin,

37:02>> yes.

37:03>> Commissioner Rosenfield,

37:04>> no.

37:05>> Commissioner Scott,

37:07>> yes.

37:07>> Commissioner Sullivan,

37:09>> yes. Pass.

37:11>> All right, that passes. Thank you very

37:13uh there's a second. the design review

37:15also motion also needs to be made if

37:17someone wants to make that. So

37:27>> based on the information presented in

37:28discussion, I move the commission.

37:30>> I think you're good.

37:35>> Uh approve the design review application

37:37as recommended by staff.

37:40>> I'll second.

37:41>> All right, we've got a motion and a

37:42second.

37:44Commissioner Burrows,

37:45>> yes.

37:46>> Commissioner Kasich,

37:47>> yes.

37:48>> Commissioner Lebert,

37:49>> yes.

37:50>> Commissioner Rascin,

37:51>> yes.

37:52>> Commissioner Rosenfield,

37:54>> no.

37:55>> Commissioner Scott,

37:56>> no.

37:57>> Commissioner Sullivan,

37:59>> yes. Pass.

38:01>> All right. Thank you very much.

38:02>> Thank you for your time. Appreciate it.

38:03Mhm. Uh, next we will have

38:07the item that's conditional use and

38:09design review for Inter Mountain Health

38:10Hospital at approximately 45 East 800

38:14South.

38:20>> Thank you so much.

38:23>> Please take a second. Thank you.

38:37I'll go on the end

38:39cuz I can control the

38:42stuff.

38:49Get out of here.

38:51How do you get out of it? Okay.

38:59Man, this mouse is rough.

39:04Back.

39:22>> All right.

39:27Of

39:30course.

39:32All right. It's going to be a long

39:34briefing, so

39:37we've all got it. Okay.

39:41All right. Um, hi. I'm Amanda and here

39:45is Seth Rios. He is a principal planner.

39:48I'm an urban designer. Seth was nice

39:49enough to help me review this very long

39:52application. So today we are going to um

39:56hold a work session regarding the um

40:00proposed hospital from Inter Mountain

40:02Health at 45 East 800 South. Um I just

40:06wanted to thank Inner Mountain for being

40:08here um HDR for being here and I see

40:10some other uh consultants on their end.

40:13So thank you to them and then thank you

40:14for the um from [clears throat] the city

40:17staff for their reviews on the project

40:19thus far. Um

40:22the property owner is Inner Mountain and

40:25their project lead is uh HDR. Uh Sean I

40:28was gonna say Sean is here to present

40:29but it looks like there's a few others.

40:31So

40:33So whoever whoever you know someone's

40:35presenting on their behalf. Um

40:37[laughter]

40:38uh so after uh the the goal of the work

40:41session is to update all of you on the

40:44background of the project. Most of you

40:46were not on the commission at that time.

40:47It's been a four-year process thus far.

40:50Um, we want to give an overview of the

40:52site, the buildings, go over the DA that

40:55was adopted, and then address some um

40:58staff feedback. Uh, after that, the

41:00applicant will refine their plans, uh,

41:03resubmit, and we will do another review,

41:06and then come back to you with the

41:08conditional use permit and design review

41:10at a later date for a public hearing.

41:15>> Okay. Okay. So, there's a lot of

41:16petitions that are involved with this

41:19whole project. Um, today's discussion is

41:21just going to be focused on the design

41:22review and the conditional use

41:23applications

41:25um for this 9acre hospital campus at the

41:28old Sears department store site. And

41:30that block is surrounded by um 700

41:33South, 800 South, and then um Main

41:36Street and State Street. So, the project

41:38site includes four buildings that we

41:39will look at in depth on later slides.

41:42Um the conditional use process is

41:44required for um the three land uses of

41:46hospital, ambulance, and helport.

41:49And then they're also requesting design

41:51review approval for the building height,

41:52the increased setbacks, and the design

41:54standards listed in the last bullet

41:56point. So things like building

41:57materials, glass percentages, things

41:58like that. Next slide.

42:02>> Okay, I'll be here for a second. So I'm

42:03going to give you guys an overview and

42:04then as also as a heads up, it is text

42:06heavy. I'll tell you when you guys don't

42:07need to review, you know, word by word.

42:09Um, so project background. Um, Interm

42:12Mountain applied for a zoning text

42:14amendment to reszone the parcel from D2,

42:16our downtown support district to D1, uh,

42:19central business district in 2022.

42:22They also applied to add hospitals and

42:25ambulance services as uh, permitted uses

42:28within the D1 zoning district. Um, the

42:32requested resone to D1 was to allow for

42:34greater building height and more design

42:36flexibility than the D2 zone permits. Uh

42:39D2 permits up to 120 ft of building

42:41height uh with design review and uh the

42:44D1 zone has unlimited building height

42:47but requires design review uh for

42:49buildings over 200 ft. [snorts] Um the

42:52reszone was first brought to the

42:53planning commission in March of 2023 and

42:56it did not include a development plan.

42:58We do not require development plans for

42:59reszones um just as a as a side note. So

43:03it was not originally um uh shared with

43:05the the city during that um first

43:07meeting. Um but although it wasn't

43:09shared, the applicant did uh indicate

43:11that the hospital would include

43:13restaurant retail options that catered

43:15to both the um employees and the uh

43:19residents of the surrounding

43:20neighborhood. And then also prior to

43:22going to that planning commission

43:23meeting um Inner Mountain did meet with

43:25a large group of community organizations

43:28to gain um to gather feedback. So um in

43:31the original staff report that um I can

43:34provide or you know it is online and

43:36public information they received a

43:38letter and it's within that report from

43:41four community councils the Midtown

43:43business district downtown alliance uh

43:46uh state senator Jennifer Plum former

43:49mayor Anderson and other organizations

43:51that focus on uh community health. and

43:54the letter welcomed the organization to

43:56downtown and requested to establish a

43:58productive line of communication so that

44:00the community needs could be integrated

44:02into the project design from the start.

44:04So, some of the suggestions that I

44:06pulled from that that letter um were to

44:09provide workforce housing, uh invest in

44:12a healthy pedestrian experience and

44:13increase midblock connections, breaking

44:15up the block. Um and then they also

44:17requested that the organization uh

44:20prioritize neighborhood engagement by

44:23identifying services that could be

44:24shared with the um local community. So

44:27that would include uh the listed

44:29services were dining, gyms, daycarees,

44:32meeting space. Um and then also they

44:35requested to create a public realm that

44:37both staff and residents could enjoy.

44:40So, in my 2023 staff report, the um it

44:45states, "The hospital has the support of

44:47neighboring property owners under the

44:48condition it programming encompasses

44:50both internal and external users, and

44:53city staff supports additional height,

44:55but in return expects a high level of

44:57design that is pedestrian oriented,

44:59contains active ground floor uses, and

45:01contributes to the overall neighborhood

45:02um character of the neighborhood. Um, at

45:04that March 2023 meeting, the planning

45:07commission recommended approval of the

45:09reszone. They did change the uh the

45:14staff recommendation to move forward

45:16with permitted uses for the hospitals

45:18and ambulance services. They did uh

45:21recommend that it was a conditional use

45:23and that was ultimately what was adopted

45:25by the the city council. Um, and then

45:28going on to uh the council briefing. So

45:31in July of 23, this was the first

45:33council briefing. Um during that

45:35briefing, the applicant and the council

45:38discussed the importance of diverse uses

45:40to activate the block while first and

45:42foremost providing patients and

45:43caregivers um access to care. And then

45:47between July of 23 and June of 24, Inner

45:50Mountain and the council members um met

45:53in small groups to discuss potential

45:54green space, ground flooror activation

45:56to serve both those within the hospital

45:58and those in the community. um and

46:00parking and then um Inner Mountain

46:03during that time was working on

46:04balancing uh council member requests

46:06with uh you know also providing

46:10uh plans uh to to uh for needed hospital

46:15services. So that happened for about a

46:18year. The reszone proposal came back for

46:20another work session with the city

46:21council in June of 24, a second public

46:24hearing in August, and then during that

46:26second public hearing is when the

46:27council voted to um uh have the

46:30applicant enter into a development

46:32agreement um prior to approving the

46:36reszone. And that was that was brought

46:38up because uh they were requesting to

46:41modify the uh design standards in the D1

46:45zoning district which are the most

46:47restrictive. And so in order to to um

46:50have less restrictive requirements than

46:52the zoning districts um we enter into

46:55DAS and this was one of the first one

46:57but we do see this um more often now

46:58with reasons. [snorts] Um so uh after

47:03that the council and the applicant they

47:05negotiate the reszone uh after

47:08preliminary concept plans and ground

47:10floor use uh concepts were shared uh

47:13during that time and I have a site of

47:15this in the future but the potential

47:18ground flooror uses proposed by inter

47:20mountain included a minimum of 1 acre of

47:22uh open space which is being provided

47:24such as healing gardens and outdoor

47:26wellness areas midblock walkways

47:28yearround food truck park, food market,

47:31coffee shop, cancer care salon, and a

47:33community room available to nonprofits.

47:35Um, and then hospital related ground

47:37floor uses were proposed for the

47:40emergency department, Instacare, clinic

47:42reception, hospital reception, and uh

47:44outpatient pharmacy. [snorts] Um, during

47:48this DA review, planning staff reviewed

47:50the concept plans and noted that such

47:52uses such as walkways, lobbies, and

47:54reception areas are not considered

47:56active ground flooror uses per code. um

47:58and that the proposal did not meet the

48:00min minimum D1 uh district code

48:04requirements. So those would need to be

48:06added to the DA which they were. Uh the

48:09DA went to the planning commission in

48:11September of 24 which uh that group at

48:16the time recommended approval with

48:17additional considerations and then both

48:20the REZone and DA were adopted in

48:21October of 24. Um and then uh Inner

48:25Mountain worked with the attorney's

48:27attorney's office. The DA was recorded

48:29and went into effect in September of 25

48:32after all the conditions were met. So

48:34that is a a long but brief uh four year

48:38history. So today we'll be reviewing

48:40their conditional use permit and design

48:42review application. They also have

48:44several other pending uh legislative

48:46petitions, but those are associated with

48:48the off-site parking structure west of

48:50Main Street. So, um, uh, right now under

48:54review and in the 45day comment period,

48:56there's a general plan amendment, a

48:57zoning amendment/DA, um, same process as

48:59before, and then, um, an alley vacation.

49:05>> So, this is just a look at the overall

49:06hospital site. Um,

49:09so you can see the main 10-story

49:11hospitals on the south side along 800

49:13South. The sevenstory medical office

49:15building is on the west side along Main

49:16Street. The six-story parking garage is

49:18on the north side of the property with

49:20ground flooror retail facing 700 South

49:22on the north side. And then the utility

49:24plant is located kind of on the interior

49:27of the block just north of the main

49:28hospital building. And that's proposed

49:29to be three stories tall.

49:35So like I mentioned, the development

49:37agreement um required 1 acre of open

49:40space. Uh the current proposal shows

49:42three acres and it's kind of split up in

49:43these areas that you see here numbered

49:45on the different corners and sections of

49:47the site. Um we have the welcome plaza

49:51that shows um bench seating and trees.

49:54There's the sculpture garden with public

49:56art installations and um other

49:58children's amenities that haven't been

50:00identified yet that are planned for.

50:02There's a midblock walkway that runs

50:03east west along the middle kind of

50:05northern part of the block. And then uh

50:08number four shows the required food

50:09truck cord on the southeast corner of

50:11the site that was required by the

50:12development agreement. We'll talk about

50:14that more later, but that's proposed to

50:16have um seating pergola trees and

50:19electrical hookups so that there's no

50:20generator noise for the food trucks.

50:23>> And then Intermount in their

50:24presentation will go into these public

50:25realm details in more detail. Um I first

50:28want to touch on one of the big review

50:30items. So this is uh rightway um

50:33encroachments. Uh so as discussed um the

50:36city's been had met with inner mountain

50:38multiple times over the course of a few

50:40years. Um during the meetings uh there

50:43were concepts presented but there were

50:46no formal plans um submitted for review.

50:50Uh during these reviews um between

50:53mostly this year when we met with them

50:55and um [clears throat] were given

50:57presentations uh building services

50:59engineering transportation and real

51:01estate services provided feedback

51:03regarding the city's policy on

51:04right-of-way encroachments which is that

51:07all new construction must be

51:08self-contained on private property with

51:10no permanent obstructions or

51:12encroachments um allowed. uh staff did

51:16provide this verbal feedback in at least

51:18three meetings with different groups

51:20working on the design. Um those meetings

51:22included inner mountain representatives,

51:25the current design team and um

51:27consultants.

51:28Uh currently the design conflicts with

51:31this requirement because the primary

51:33hospital entrance on 800 South and the

51:35secondary entrance to the medical office

51:37building are uh both include vehicle

51:40drop offs within the public rightway. uh

51:43they applied for an encroachment permit

51:45that was denied uh by the city. So

51:48neither planning nor the planning

51:50commission have the authority to approve

51:53right-of-way encroachments. Um so we've

51:56asked the design team to work with the

51:58city on um coming up with alternative

51:59solutions. But because it is a a big

52:02ticket item, I put it in this

52:04presentation.

52:07>> Sorry to clarify. So rightway

52:08encroachments absolutely prohibited.

52:10there's no way that they can be approved

52:11without a full code change.

52:13>> Um it's not coded city policy, so it's

52:15not within um 21A.

52:18>> Okay, gotcha.

52:18>> Mhm.

52:23>> So, as I mentioned earlier, these three

52:24uses are listed as conditional uses in

52:27the D1 zone. Um you kind of talked about

52:30it earlier with David's application, but

52:32um the whole purpose of the conditional

52:34use process is to mitigate negative

52:36impacts. state code's pretty clear that

52:37that doesn't mean completely eliminate,

52:39but the goal is to mitigate and reduce

52:41some of those ne negative impacts. So,

52:43as part of the review process, we

52:45identified some of the potential impacts

52:47that would come from this proposal.

52:49Increased noise is one of the main ones

52:50that we identified. This is going to

52:53come from the emergency care flights

52:54that are using the helport. It's going

52:56to come from the ambulances that are um

52:58coming to the hospital. Um, so first,

53:00the helport's regulated by the FFA, the

53:03Federal Aviation Administration, and

53:05it's going to be subject to their review

53:07at a later date. Their regulations um

53:09supersede the city's requirements. Um,

53:13so during this first round of department

53:15reviews, we asked the Salt Lake City

53:16Airport Planner to take a look at the

53:18flight path and the helport. They

53:20reviewed it and found that uh they

53:22didn't identify any issues really

53:24outside of just normal helicopter

53:25operation. Um, in their application,

53:28applicants stated that they placed the

53:30helipad on top of the building

53:31intentionally to try and like separate

53:33it from the ground and kind of get some

53:34distance um to kind of help with the

53:36noise. Um, ambulance noise, like I

53:39mentioned, is another part. It's a

53:40normal part of hospital operation. Um,

53:43in their middle, the applicant stated

53:45that they'll turn off ambulance noise as

53:46they approach the ambulance service area

53:48shown in the middle of the block. Uh,

53:50but like the helport use, the timing of

53:52these noises are just unpredictable just

53:54given the nature of them.

53:56Did you say they will turn off the

53:58ambulance siren?

53:58>> They will as they approach the ambulance

54:00service block.

54:01>> Um I I I'll let them speak to the

54:04specifics, but the ambulance service

54:06area is kind of in the middle of the

54:07block. There's like an interior parking

54:08lot.

54:09>> Um yeah, so I I'm not positive. I'll let

54:12them answer that. Um the 247 operation

54:16will also increase light impacts on the

54:18surrounding areas. City code and design

54:20standards have several sections where we

54:22address lighting on properties. Um,

54:24these standards require light lighting

54:26to be downward facing and shielded. Um,

54:29however, this only applies to parts of

54:31the building not regulated by the FAA

54:33because they have lighting requirements

54:35where helports have to be visible and

54:37they have all these additional

54:38requirements. So, these lighting

54:40standards we have in the city will apply

54:41to the parts of the building not

54:42regulated by the FAA.

54:45>> Thank you. Um, and the only other thing

54:47with the the noise uh impact, there is a

54:50section of code that exempts ambulance

54:51services from um needing [clears throat]

54:55to be at a lower decibel. Uh, so at this

54:58time we don't have any large conditions.

55:02I put some uh preliminary conditions in

55:05the report mostly speaking to uh

55:09limiting hours of operation for delivery

55:12or pickup services if if it's

55:14reasonable, right? Um, and we're going

55:17to rely on the applicant who are

55:19professionals in the the hospital

55:20industry to go over these conditions,

55:22make sure they're reasonable, and then

55:24we will not condition things um that

55:27will already need approval such as UD do

55:30approval for the proposed um access off

55:33State Street. So, um or you know,

55:35[clears throat] they're currently going

55:36through a lot line adjustment. We're

55:38those are not things that we'll

55:39condition. Um but

55:43I I did put a a few examples that can be

55:47considered.

55:49Okay, onto the building design.

55:52Uh the proposed hospital, the impatient

55:54hospital is 10 stories. It's 221 ft tall

55:58and then as Seth just mentioned, there

56:00is a rooftop helellipad. Um as

56:03anticipated, there are some design

56:05standards that need to be modified. So,

56:07first the applicant is requesting a

56:09glass transparency reduction on the

56:11upper floors facing 800 South. Um, the

56:14percentages are between 8 and 30%. Um,

56:19instead the required 20. These

56:21reductions are due to level five being

56:24dedicated to mechanical um mechanical

56:26floor. And then the rest of the south

56:28facing facade is um has uh limited not

56:33limited but reduced transparency because

56:35that's where the patients rooms are just

56:37so for privacy.

56:40And then

56:41and then the applicant is also

56:43requesting um modifications

56:45[clears throat] to our blank wall

56:47standards. So the D1

56:49uh zone requ uh limits uh blank walls to

56:5320 ft um that are not uh that are

56:56uninterrupted by doors, art or

56:58architectural detailing. Um do the

57:00ground floor uses that require patient

57:02and caregiver privacy? This is a

57:04reasonable request. Um and we

57:09are asking the applicant though um and

57:11they they have agreed to this to uh

57:14break up the walls with change in some

57:16plane materials or texture just to

57:18visually break it up. Um murals whatnot.

57:21Um and then finally the applicant is uh

57:23requesting to reduce the required

57:25durable material percentages. Um the

57:29proposed material pallet relies relies

57:31heavily on using ephus which is not

57:33listed as a durable material under our

57:35design standards and I will uh speak to

57:37that again in just a moment.

57:40Uh the second building so this is the

57:42medical office building uh they it is

57:44connected to the hospital um and then

57:46[snorts] um on the lower levels and then

57:48it separates out into two distinct

57:50structures. Uh this building will need

57:52blank wall modifications as well. Um the

57:57the elevation on the bottom left you can

58:01see uh blank walls on the left hand

58:03side. Once again it's it's due to um

58:05internal function. Uh the red circle is

58:08where the uh proposed skybridge would um

58:12meet the hospital from the off-site

58:14parking structure. Um and then they're

58:16also requesting for uh durable material

58:19modification.

58:23And then I put these two on the same

58:24slide. So the utility plant is three

58:27stories about 52 feet tall. Um there are

58:30no major concerns at this time. The

58:32structures internal and it provides

58:35essential utilities, equipment storage.

58:37Uh it's not street facing um and it's

58:40not intended to be accessed or uh by the

58:43the public. So the the building and the

58:46loading dock will be screened. Uh we do

58:48request more for information on how the

58:51open space will be screened from the

58:53ambulances and uh vehicular traffic um

58:55and interior functions at the the middle

58:58of the site. This is the only rendering

58:59I have of um the site from this

59:02perspective and so it would be helpful

59:05to have more perspectives on how that

59:07open space interacts with the

59:09circulation. And [snorts] then the

59:11on-site parking structure, it's six

59:13stories. Um

59:15uh the

59:17the plans differ between 75 ft and the

59:20narrative says it's 88 ft. So um I do

59:24know that they are going to be

59:25requesting blank wall modifications,

59:26durable building material modifications,

59:29and then um the main thing is uh they'll

59:31be requesting uh modifications to our

59:34design standards regulating parking

59:36structures. That said, so this this

59:39structure does have ground flooror

59:40retail and it meets our ground floor

59:42activation uh requirements with the

59:45percentage as well as the 25 foot depth

59:48requirement. Um we do need updated plans

59:52that uh correlate to and then we'll

59:54conduct a more thorough review. Uh our

59:57primary concern though at this point is

59:58how the open air structure impacts the

1:00:00internal open space and then um that

1:00:03midblock walkway experience and then whe

1:00:05whether mitigation measures are being

1:00:07taken to reduce those impacts because uh

1:00:09the proposal is to have the structure be

1:00:11open air um and the uh circulation

1:00:15visible to the public.

1:00:18Okay. Um some building materials. I took

1:00:21one of the slides from a presentation

1:00:23from 2023 that Inner Mountain gave to

1:00:26the um planning commission. Uh and then

1:00:29there uh I'd call them main facades of

1:00:33the the main facads we'll speak to are

1:00:36on the bottom. So the D1 zone requires

1:00:39street facing facades to include 70%

1:00:42durable materials on the ground floor

1:00:44and 50% on the upper floors. This does

1:00:47not count uh windows and doors. [snorts]

1:00:50uh the definition of durable building

1:00:52materials on the screen and I

1:00:54highlighted the applicable part. So the

1:00:57project's proposed material pallet

1:00:58consists of thin brick on the ground

1:01:00level and ephus into colors throughout

1:01:03the remainder of the project. Uh because

1:01:06the site is surrounded by public

1:01:07streets, most of its facads are

1:01:09technically considered street facing.

1:01:11Making the use of Ephus a concern since

1:01:14planning typically um does not supported

1:01:17as a majority material on highly visible

1:01:20street facing uh walls. Um I will note

1:01:22that we do not have a definition of

1:01:24street facing but we do have

1:01:26interpretations from previous projects.

1:01:29[snorts] Um, and then to qualify a

1:01:32material as durable, um, there is an

1:01:35avenue to do that. The applicant needs

1:01:37to provide a a minimum 20-year warranty

1:01:40that meets the def definition on the

1:01:42slide. They did submit, um, a letter

1:01:45from the company that they intend to

1:01:47purchase the Ephus from. um and specs.

1:01:50Their technical director confirmed a

1:01:5220-year warranty um that covers moisture

1:01:55drainage, peeling, flaking, chipping,

1:01:57and fading if the project um uses

1:02:00specific pigments of Ephus, which they

1:02:02are um planning on on doing. And so th

1:02:05those specific colors are covered. Um

1:02:08but the letter and the warranty does not

1:02:10it fails to adequately adequately

1:02:12address weather and local um climate

1:02:15conditions. So, [snorts] we still need

1:02:17confirmation that the material um can

1:02:20meet Salt Lake City's climate. Um that

1:02:23would like include our temperature

1:02:25fluctuations, snowfall, freeze, thaw,

1:02:28cycles. Um I did review our list of

1:02:30approved materials that are not

1:02:32specifically listed in code and most of

1:02:34the um additional uh materials are metal

1:02:38paneling. Um we do not have anything we

1:02:41do not have any um material ephist

1:02:43materials that have been submitted and

1:02:44approved um as durable. [snorts]

1:02:48Uh so staff generally supports a

1:02:50reduction um in total durable building

1:02:53materials and you know we want to help

1:02:55move this request forward. Um to do that

1:02:58we recommend the applicant substitutes

1:03:00the ephus with more compliant materials

1:03:03such as brick stone or architectural

1:03:05metal. understanding budget constraints.

1:03:08Um we are requesting that they focus on

1:03:11the the visible the really visible

1:03:14facads that would include 800 South

1:03:16which is where the main building

1:03:17entrance is proposed and then highly

1:03:20visible facades facing State Street and

1:03:23uh visible sections that are not slated

1:03:25for future expansion.

1:03:32Okay. Um, and then development a

1:03:34agreement compliance. I the development

1:03:37agreement is in your staff report as

1:03:40well. And I have it printed out if we

1:03:41need to reference it. So for this

1:03:43section, I put the DA language in. Um,

1:03:46and then their proposal. It's it's

1:03:48heavy. I'll just go over it. Um, so for

1:03:52the food truck court, um, within the DA,

1:03:54the language is on the left. Uh, the

1:03:56requirement has been met. So, it does

1:03:58feature um 125 linear feet along State

1:04:01Street, which is the language within the

1:04:03DA. It provides electrical hookups for

1:04:06six trucks, landscaping, and seated

1:04:08shading. Um the DA also requires uh

1:04:11public access to restrooms. This was

1:04:14provided um and it is a review comment

1:04:16that I made but it's the um access is

1:04:21located through the main entry of the

1:04:23hospital um and a direct walking path

1:04:25from the edge of the food truck court to

1:04:28those restrooms is about 500 ft away. So

1:04:31they are accessible to the public but um

1:04:34not necessarily con convenient. Um, and

1:04:37then future expansion. Um, I can let

1:04:39the, you know, I'll let the applicant

1:04:41speak to this, but this rendering does

1:04:44show that the hospital would, uh,

1:04:47eliminate most of the courtyard in phase

1:04:502. Um, and that would require an

1:04:52amendment that would be, uh, taken to

1:04:54the council and, um, with a

1:04:56recommendation from the, um, planning

1:04:59commission.

1:05:03>> You jump back. Mhm.

1:05:05>> So that's that red line

1:05:08that you're talking about

1:05:10>> on the left

1:05:12>> on the left one

1:05:15>> or the um the massing

1:05:17>> you're saying it would it would take

1:05:18most of the

1:05:20courtyard

1:05:22>> sorry is that purple line tell me

1:05:25explain it a little more. Oh, I'll have

1:05:26the applicant speak to the lines. Um on

1:05:28the rest of their plan set and um this

1:05:31was part of the they'll speak to this in

1:05:33their presentation. Um the red lines on

1:05:36their presentation show the project

1:05:39area. Um I will note that uh the red

1:05:43lines do cross into the public right

1:05:44ofway. So um the building could not go

1:05:49uh this far. this rendering. Um, you

1:05:52know, it also shows uh parking along

1:05:54State Street, which isn't in all of the

1:05:57submitt um and so I'll let the applicant

1:05:59speak to what their uh intentions are

1:06:02along State Street.

1:06:06[snorts]

1:06:06Okay, the next um topic are building

1:06:09entrances. And this kind of ties

1:06:10together with the food truck court and

1:06:11then the um active ground flooror uses.

1:06:14So, the language in the DA says that

1:06:16active ground flooror uses shall have

1:06:19direct access to these sidewalk or

1:06:21midblock walkways through doors that are

1:06:22open during business hours. Um, you

1:06:26know, after review, there are two public

1:06:29entrances um shown here with red arrows.

1:06:33Um

1:06:34I have brought this to um through the

1:06:37review and through conversations um to

1:06:40it's it's it's been mentioned um and uh

1:06:44security concerns have been cited for

1:06:46why there are no other uh public um

1:06:48entrances. Um the active ground flooror

1:06:51uses lack direct unlocked access to the

1:06:55sidewalk. And then as I mentioned the

1:06:57public restroom is uh quite far from the

1:06:59the food truck court. um the D1 design

1:07:05standards. So, it is addressed in the

1:07:06DA, but they will need a modification to

1:07:08the D1 design standards um which require

1:07:10an entrance every 40 ft. Um again,

1:07:13reduction in building entrances is

1:07:14completely expected and appropriate for

1:07:16a hospital. Um but the intent of the DA

1:07:19needs to be met. Um, per a 2020 staff

1:07:22report um, regarding the DA, um, it

1:07:25states, "The intent of the ground floor

1:07:27activation requirements is to provide

1:07:29direct access to the public sidewalks to

1:07:30the uses. For that reason, the uses

1:07:32listed by the applicant should be

1:07:34required to have doors on the street

1:07:36that provide direct access to those

1:07:38uses. Um, if the doors are locked or not

1:07:41accessible, it is contrary to the intent

1:07:43of the regulation." Um and then this

1:07:47this uh staff report reference leads to

1:07:50the primary focus that I'll go on which

1:07:52is um within the DA which is the active

1:07:54ground floor uses.

1:07:57Um this is a few slides. So this is uh

1:08:00we'll go over uh past conversations. So

1:08:02the primary concern uh for both the city

1:08:05and the community regarding the uh

1:08:08reszone to D1 was securing a commitment

1:08:12that a reszone would ensure the

1:08:14activation of street frontages with uh

1:08:17community facing uses um particularly

1:08:21along Main Street and State Street. Main

1:08:23Street has a a regulation that details

1:08:27out um

1:08:30uh like very active uses. Um but because

1:08:34their uses are in the DA, what's in the

1:08:37DA is permitted. Um even though the DA

1:08:41some of the uses in the DA are not

1:08:43considered active within the regular

1:08:45design um standard code. Um the ground

1:08:49floor activation concepts shown on the

1:08:51slide were submitted during the

1:08:52negotiations um of the development

1:08:54agreement. Um and those uses are not

1:08:57codified with the in adopted language.

1:08:59Um

1:09:01uh throughout every public meeting um I

1:09:04did I went back and I reviewed all the

1:09:05staff reports. I listened to the

1:09:06meetings um and [snorts]

1:09:09every meeting that was held the planning

1:09:11commission and city council um

1:09:13emphasized that robust street level

1:09:15activity will enhance rather than than

1:09:18diminish the um inner mountains

1:09:20highquality healthc care services and

1:09:23ultimately the DA was requested by the

1:09:25council to um guarantee meaningful

1:09:28activation along these vital north south

1:09:31corridors. [snorts]

1:09:35Okay. Um so again the D1 ground floor

1:09:38active use requirements they are high

1:09:40they're at 90% D1 zoning is supposed to

1:09:43be the most intensive um with large

1:09:46buildings uh high lot coverage buildings

1:09:48situated close to the sidewalk and then

1:09:50the design standards are um uh [snorts]

1:09:54higher than other zoning districts.

1:09:56Um, under the definition of D1 in the

1:10:00design standards, an enhanced active use

1:10:03would be retail, restaurants, bars, art

1:10:06studios, or civic spaces that provide

1:10:08direct services or products um or uses

1:10:11substantially similar based on the level

1:10:14of public access for the purpose of

1:10:16receiving a service or product. Um,

1:10:19prohibited uses and code are areas that

1:10:22are not accessible to customers. So that

1:10:23would be storage, kitchens, uh parking,

1:10:26utilities. The minimum depth for

1:10:28non-residential uses is 25 ft. We do

1:10:31have exception for lobbies um because

1:10:34they are, you know, necessary parts of

1:10:36um the ground floor with residential

1:10:38buildings and commercial buildings. And

1:10:39then we do have also exceptions for

1:10:41outdoor dining, patios, and recreation

1:10:43space within setbacks. So I did I

1:10:46highlighted the um uses that

1:10:50are within the DA. So that includes a

1:10:52[snorts]

1:10:53uh gift shop, retail goods and services,

1:10:55salon, cafe, art therapy space, daycare,

1:10:59food truck, courtyard, open courtyard

1:11:01and walkways, reception and lobbies,

1:11:03restaurant, pharmacy and other similar

1:11:05uses. Um and then the uh language below

1:11:10that are other uh requirements that are

1:11:14within the DA that relate to the ground

1:11:16floor uses. So that um that the ground

1:11:20floor needs transparent glass for

1:11:22certain uses. Um and you know

1:11:23understanding that you have you have the

1:11:25private uses but then you have the

1:11:26public facing ones [snorts] and then um

1:11:29again going back to the building

1:11:30entrance slide that all of these uses

1:11:32have direct access to the sidewalk. The

1:11:35graphic right here shows the um approved

1:11:38percentages per the DA

1:11:41for each uh street facing facade.

1:11:45Okay. So this is a um floor plan and I

1:11:48know the applicant will go over this as

1:11:49well. Um I relisted the uses that are

1:11:52permitted via the the DA. So what the

1:11:55applicant is providing, those uses are

1:11:58in bold. Um then I outlined in red uses

1:12:04other than reception and lobby areas and

1:12:07external open spaces that would be

1:12:09considered public. So, that's a uh 335

1:12:14foot gift shop and a

1:12:18I'm not sure if it's a coffee stand or

1:12:20they can speak to the um programming,

1:12:23but a coffee shop within the um front

1:12:27entrance. And then in the red uh dashed

1:12:31boxes are other uses such as a religious

1:12:35room and uh those uh publicly accessible

1:12:39restrooms.

1:12:40Um the

1:12:43in the plan set the yellow um the the

1:12:48yellow space that's highlighted is meant

1:12:51to be the active space. Um but outside

1:12:54of that gift shop and coffee stand, it's

1:12:57um it's primarily circulation lobby

1:13:00space.

1:13:02[snorts] Uh and then this is the medical

1:13:04office building. So the provided uses

1:13:08other than reception lobbies and

1:13:10hallways. Um and then the the exterior

1:13:12open spaces is a is a pharmacy. Uh so

1:13:16for the DA uh compliance the they

1:13:20technically meet the black and white

1:13:22language um because they did provide the

1:13:24uses that are listed um by including

1:13:28lobbies and reception areas in indoor

1:13:30and then sidewalks and plazas outdoors.

1:13:33Um but however, and this is, you know,

1:13:35this has been communicated since uh the

1:13:38submitt or since conversations started

1:13:40about the design, um planning staff

1:13:43finds that neither the intent of the

1:13:44provision nor the spirit of negotiations

1:13:46with the city council and community have

1:13:49been fulfilled by the ground floor use

1:13:52um proposal. So the gift shop, coffee

1:13:55shop, and pharmacy don't have direct

1:13:56access to the sidewalk or midblock. U

1:13:58there were there are um building

1:14:01entrances and right before I published

1:14:03the staff report I was told that they're

1:14:05actually not open. Um people cannot go

1:14:08in and out of them and again citing

1:14:10security concerns. Um and so the only

1:14:13two entrances are the the one into the

1:14:17one into each main building. Um so that

1:14:19said the ground floor does provide

1:14:21adequate uh transparency.

1:14:26a summary of staff feedback concerns um

1:14:29that we've been going over with the

1:14:30applicants. So the right ofway

1:14:31encroachments um so any update to that

1:14:34will need to be reviewed by

1:14:36transportation engineering building

1:14:37services real estate services um the

1:14:41active ground floor uses durable

1:14:43building materials specifically um the

1:14:45amount of ephus and that being the um

1:14:48the the sole material other than um

1:14:50glazing on the upper stories. Um we need

1:14:53more details on the public realm

1:14:55experience how uh pedestrians you know

1:14:58experience that um coming from State

1:15:00Street and uh and then we also need a

1:15:04lot more information on the parking

1:15:05structure. Um and then um recent uh

1:15:09recent questions that came up were due

1:15:11to do phasing. Um so the project

1:15:14narrative states that uh planning

1:15:16efforts show expansion to the southeast

1:15:19corner of the block. So that would be

1:15:22the food truck court and the Mo

1:15:25expansion on the northwest corner which

1:15:27would be the sculpture garden. [snorts]

1:15:30Um the narrative also says that the

1:15:32welcome plaza is permanent. So we would

1:15:35request more information on that

1:15:37specifically. The food truck court is a

1:15:39requirement. Um and uh yeah just just

1:15:44overall plans would be would be

1:15:46excellent and I'm I'm sure the applicant

1:15:48can speak to that. Um and that is the

1:15:49end of my presentation and I know it's

1:15:52long and I apologize for that but

1:15:55there's a lot uh you have any questions

1:15:57otherwise we have lots of people here

1:15:59that can speak to

1:16:00>> yeah you me [clears throat] thank you

1:16:02wonderful presentation um you said that

1:16:04there would be a phase two do you have a

1:16:06timeline on that and would what exactly

1:16:08would be impacted inside of the the

1:16:10hospital campus uh uh for us to be

1:16:14considering when they're looking at this

1:16:15entire project? I do not have a

1:16:17timeline, but they might.

1:16:23>> So, you you said that staff was hoping

1:16:25that they would just switch over from

1:16:27EFS to a different material. Um, EFS, is

1:16:31that Am I saying it right?

1:16:33>> I

1:16:34>> um

1:16:35>> Yes.

1:16:35>> Uh

1:16:37um it sounds like they are pretty close

1:16:40to getting a warrant from the from the

1:16:44manufacturer. if you were able to

1:16:46receive a warrant from the manufacturer

1:16:47that says this is this is not only

1:16:50warrantied for the 20 years but also

1:16:53warrantied for um the specific weather

1:16:56conditions of Salt Lake City. Would

1:16:58staff consider that um appropriate or do

1:17:01you have specific concerns about that

1:17:03particular material um in regards to

1:17:08you know regardless of what the

1:17:09manufacturer says it's not going to be

1:17:11sufficient with the spirit in terms of

1:17:12the spirit of the

1:17:14>> um code? Uh yeah, I mean it's not listed

1:17:17as a durable building material just

1:17:20based on staff experience um uh

1:17:24throughout the years where we've seen

1:17:26projects and they don't they frankly

1:17:28don't age as well um as some of the

1:17:31other projects that use you know brick

1:17:33stone

1:17:34um or more natural materials. And so

1:17:36that's the reason that it's not listed

1:17:39as a durable building material. But if

1:17:41they do meet the definition then um we

1:17:43would consider that and you know that

1:17:45said I I don't think that they need to

1:17:48>> change the whole thing. Um right we

1:17:52approve modifications to reduce durable

1:17:54build building building materials all

1:17:55the time. It's just more so incorporate

1:17:58other options um so that there's a

1:18:02little bit of give and take.

1:18:03>> Absolutely.

1:18:04>> Especially on those uh very visible

1:18:07entrances and whatnot. Um, and then I

1:18:11another question I guess uh it it sounds

1:18:14like right like the you know the the the

1:18:17question about whether the the active

1:18:19ground floor uses complies with the

1:18:20spirit of the negotiations. I think you

1:18:22made a pretty clear argument that it

1:18:23doesn't comply with the spirit but um in

1:18:26terms of the letter of the development

1:18:28agreement it seems pretty clear to me

1:18:30that the that the the number of doors is

1:18:33just straight up non-compliant.

1:18:35Absolutely correct. Is there any way

1:18:39under the under state or local codes

1:18:42without modifying the development

1:18:44agreement that that could be modified or

1:18:47is that basically a you know does that

1:18:49allow staff to create a hold on the

1:18:50project and ensure that um that the city

1:18:54is getting what it agreed to?

1:18:56>> Um building entrances are design

1:18:58standards so they can be modified

1:19:00through the design review process. Okay.

1:19:02Um, it's mostly that, well, the language

1:19:05in the DA

1:19:07is specific that ground floor uses that

1:19:10are open to the public have a door that

1:19:12leads to those uses.

1:19:15>> Okay.

1:19:16>> Um, thank you. And then finally, I just

1:19:18like in terms of the height

1:19:19requirements, and this is maybe me mis

1:19:22like struggling to read the nested

1:19:24clauses in D1 district. It's just that

1:19:27buildings over like D1 is uncapped, but

1:19:30buildings over 200 feet require design

1:19:32review. Is that correct? Okay. Thank you

1:19:34for clarifying.

1:19:34>> Yep.

1:19:36>> Can you can you speak to how often we've

1:19:38reduced um durable goods requirement,

1:19:41durable finishes requirements because I

1:19:44don't think that we do it very often,

1:19:45but is it approved? Um am I remembering

1:19:48it wrong? Or is can that be approved

1:19:50administratively?

1:19:52Uh, no. It cannot be approved

1:19:54administratively, but I mean, I've had a

1:19:57lot of projects personally that have uh

1:20:00requested reductions. I've never had a

1:20:02project where the uh soul building

1:20:06material being proposed was not durable.

1:20:09But I think part of one of the big

1:20:11things for design review would be a

1:20:14modification to that along with height,

1:20:17building length, but building lengths

1:20:18covered in DA. Um so I would say height,

1:20:22length, materials and glass. That said,

1:20:25we did just update our uh design

1:20:27standards to be more reasonable I guess

1:20:30um uh through the mixeduse

1:20:33consolidation. So we did reduce uh

1:20:36things like uh the ground or the glass

1:20:40requirements and I believe the building

1:20:43materials were modified uh in that last

1:20:45update as well. like the percent that's

1:20:48required it was.

1:20:50>> So the the question is if they have okay

1:20:52they have all these openings and then

1:20:5570% of all of the rest that's not an

1:20:57opening that's not a window or door

1:20:59needs to be a durable good and it looks

1:21:03like 100% will not be a durable finish

1:21:07in this in this proposal. That's

1:21:09correct. So the so the request would be

1:21:11to modify from 70% down to 0% if if

1:21:15that's if it's requested the way that

1:21:16it's drawn right now.

1:21:18>> Uh almost so 70%'s ground floor.

1:21:21>> They are showing thin brick on the

1:21:24ground floor. So um if I can get some

1:21:27percentages and I can review it better.

1:21:28But they're likely to meet that ground

1:21:30floor requirement because of the brick.

1:21:32The upper floor requirement is 50%. And

1:21:36they would at this time are requesting

1:21:38to bring it to zero.

1:21:39>> Go from 50 to zero.

1:21:41>> Okay.

1:21:42>> I just want to add a point of

1:21:44clarification. There are instances where

1:21:47an administrative design review can be

1:21:49approved for durable material

1:21:51modifications and that's only with

1:21:53affordable housing incentives.

1:21:56Otherwise, it is required to be approved

1:21:58by the planning commission. in my I'm

1:22:01I'm just thinking about

1:22:04projects where we've approved a decrease

1:22:06in the amount of durable um finishes and

1:22:09it seems like I can't think of any

1:22:12specific that go from 50% to zero. But

1:22:16maybe I'm maybe I'm not thinking

1:22:19remembering it right. at any rate.

1:22:21>> I haven't I haven't had one do that, but

1:22:23I I have had multiple request

1:22:25reductions, but not not to to zero.

1:22:30>> When did when did staff receive the this

1:22:32the design off of which you're working?

1:22:36They applied

1:22:38between it came uh more peacemail but

1:22:42between August and September depending

1:22:44on the petition

1:22:45>> and you this was all put together by

1:22:48staff in this in the past two months.

1:22:50>> Correct.

1:22:51>> That's incredible. Um so I do just want

1:22:53to give everybody who worked on this in

1:22:56planning staff uh massive kudos. This is

1:22:59an intense project that obviously has a

1:23:01lot of controversy facing it and I

1:23:03appreciate the work that is being done

1:23:04under pressure by everyone on the team.

1:23:07>> Goal is to move it forward. Right.

1:23:11>> Uh all right, then we'll go ahead and

1:23:12hear from the um

1:23:15I want to say client, but that's not the

1:23:17right word.

1:23:19Applicant, that's the one.

1:23:21>> Let me [snorts] pull up their

1:23:22presentation.

1:23:35Okay,

1:23:39I will scooch off to the side and then

1:23:41come back up once they are done.

1:23:56My name is Eric Mub

1:23:59and I'm a vice president and design

1:24:02principal with HDR architects and we

1:24:05have led the master planning and design

1:24:07for LDS hospital.

1:24:09>> And good evening. Oh, one more time with

1:24:11feeling. Um, good evening. My name is

1:24:13Heather Wall and I'm the hospital

1:24:14president up at LDS hospital in the

1:24:16avenues hopefully coming down to the

1:24:18Sears block.

1:24:20>> And my name is Sean Salazar. I'm the

1:24:22project manager for the design firm. I

1:24:24work with Eric and others on this

1:24:25project.

1:24:27>> So we have a lot of slides but we don't

1:24:29need to go through them all. U Amanda

1:24:32delivered a very eloquent description

1:24:34with with her colleague of the project.

1:24:37I I do want to pause a little bit on

1:24:39some areas where I think an additional

1:24:41clarification would help. Uh but if at

1:24:44any point you don't think it's

1:24:46necessary, just say move it along or if

1:24:48you want to pause, just say shut up for

1:24:51a second and let us talk. Um we have

1:24:54four sections. One is just an intro

1:24:56thing and most of this was covered by

1:24:58Amanda, but we want to just add a nuance

1:25:00or two. The visual tour is quick just to

1:25:03show you a few more views that you

1:25:05haven't seen of the architecture. The

1:25:07development agreement section though is

1:25:09where we have uh renderings of some of

1:25:12the elements that you didn't see much of

1:25:13yet. You saw a little bit about the food

1:25:15truck court, but you didn't see much

1:25:17about some of the other amenities. So,

1:25:19we'd like to share those with you. And

1:25:20then the design standards is really just

1:25:23areas where um we're either meeting the

1:25:27standards or not meeting the standards.

1:25:28Okay. So starting with the the site

1:25:32obviously as as Amanda described the

1:25:35hospital is the taller structure the

1:25:36medical office building the shorter one.

1:25:38This is the view uh from uh 800 South

1:25:41and uh Main Street. Um and um I I want

1:25:46to just start with that document that

1:25:49was prepared two years ago uh that we

1:25:51really tried to follow. This was the

1:25:53first kind of attempt at zoning the site

1:25:56and so they put this was a different

1:25:57firm. this wasn't us. Uh they put the

1:25:59hospital on 800 South and the outpatient

1:26:02building on Main Street. It's called

1:26:03ASC. That's an ambulatory surgery

1:26:05center, but it also had uh other

1:26:08outpatient facilities. And I and it also

1:26:10has that that that park u larger than an

1:26:14acre in this view. But I want to just

1:26:16note that when this design was done,

1:26:18they were anticipating putting below

1:26:21grade multiple levels of parking, the

1:26:24loading dock, and the central utility

1:26:26plant. And those are not small objects.

1:26:30And so uh as as the development went on,

1:26:32we discovered that the high water table

1:26:34really made that unfeasible. It'd be

1:26:36expensive and you'd have a lot of pumps

1:26:38running during uh the wet times of year.

1:26:41So our our latest uh development um

1:26:46really attempted to get all those things

1:26:48above ground and still maintain uh many

1:26:51of the site amenities. So, the parking

1:26:54was put in a structure on 700 South and

1:26:56the cup and the loading dock, the

1:26:58loading dock is just to the right of the

1:27:00cup there. Those were all uh raised

1:27:02above grade. Amanda's already spoken of

1:27:05uh the pullouts. I I just want to say

1:27:08our reason for including those was was

1:27:11not trying to break the rules. We had

1:27:13seen that there are a couple of major

1:27:16hotels in the downtown area that have

1:27:18those pull outs and canopies in the

1:27:20right of way and we were told um that

1:27:22those wouldn't be approved today. So we

1:27:24get that that's historical that things

1:27:26evolve. Um but we'd also had based very

1:27:30much upon the drawings of that original

1:27:32study. U one of those drawings is

1:27:35actually included in the development

1:27:36agreement. So, we thought that gave it

1:27:38some kind of a biblical legitimacy, but

1:27:41it does not. As as we were told, just

1:27:44because something wasn't noted doesn't

1:27:45mean it was approved. So, um that's

1:27:48where we came to that. Uh but I do want

1:27:51to talk about uh you know, we really

1:27:54have tried to meet the spirit of the

1:27:57development agreements on the site.

1:27:58Amanda talked about that welcome plaza

1:28:01uh on the uh the southwest corner which

1:28:04really kind of unifies the two main

1:28:06entrances, but there's also that

1:28:08sculpture garden on the northwest which

1:28:10is really an entry point for people

1:28:11arriving from tracks. And the great

1:28:14thing about that one, it it it's kind of

1:28:16near the mob, but it also leads you to

1:28:18the the ED walk-in entrance. Um there's

1:28:21been discussion already about the

1:28:23limitation of retail, and we get that.

1:28:25We've got a retail pharmacy. We've got a

1:28:27little gift shop. We've got that grove

1:28:29cafe. I I do want to mention that it's

1:28:31not retail, but we have a conference

1:28:33center on the second floor over the

1:28:35number three. It takes about half of

1:28:37that floor and uh that will be an

1:28:40element that will include community

1:28:42events. That will be an important

1:28:43important piece of interface with the

1:28:45community. But the issue of retail is

1:28:49really important here. Um,

1:28:52this is a hospital and urban hospitals

1:28:55like this

1:28:57rely on a secure zone. There's just no

1:29:00way. You do not want the kind of

1:29:02headlines you can have if someone brings

1:29:04a gun into this hospital. Uh, no amount

1:29:06of retail is worth that. And uh I I

1:29:11don't think a lot of people when they're

1:29:12out to go shopping want to pass through

1:29:14a metal detector on the way. Each of our

1:29:16entrances is staffed with a security

1:29:19person and a metal detector. And that's

1:29:21why we have so few. There's one for the

1:29:23hospital, one for the MLB at level one,

1:29:26a second one for the MLB at the bridge

1:29:29on the second floor, and then there's

1:29:31one at the emergency entrance on the

1:29:33back side. So, but we understood the

1:29:37importance of retail on that site.

1:29:38That's why we've located 190 ft of

1:29:42retail space under the parking

1:29:43structure. Uh we think that will do a

1:29:46lot to enliven that block of 700 South.

1:29:49We we think of that as a very critical

1:29:51component here. Um and then that that

1:29:54you know approximately 1 acre public

1:29:57open space. We've really tried to make

1:29:59that a real asset for the community with

1:30:02access from State Street from 700 South

1:30:04and from Main Street and then the food

1:30:06truck court. We'll describe these more

1:30:08in detail.

1:30:10That 1acre park, however, is really only

1:30:14made possible by holding the street

1:30:16edge, which is a very urban gesture. And

1:30:18that holding the street edge is made

1:30:20possible by those very pullouts that we

1:30:23now realize we can't do. Uh if we need

1:30:26to accommodate that drop off within the

1:30:29site, as we're told, that will have an

1:30:31impact. Uh we'll have to move the

1:30:34hospital and the MLB probably 35 to 40

1:30:37feet to the north. Uh, and that will

1:30:40turn that one acre open space into a

1:30:43little more than half an [clears throat]

1:30:44acre open space. As Amanda noted, we

1:30:47have, you know, more than an acre on the

1:30:50whole site. Uh, but it won't be as

1:30:53contiguous. So, that's just something we

1:30:55we know that that that these are things

1:30:57to balance. Uh but another important

1:31:00thing to balance is that when we move

1:31:01the hospital 35 to 40 ft to the north

1:31:05that will also impact the ability of the

1:31:07hospital to expand because it was going

1:31:09to expand to the lower right and then

1:31:12north and one of the areas of expansion

1:31:15is the behavioral health units which is

1:31:17a function that is vital to well any

1:31:20major city these days. So again, in your

1:31:23balancing act of priorities, uh I you

1:31:26have a job I don't envy. Uh those are

1:31:29those are all part of the mix.

1:31:32I did want to speak to the conditional

1:31:33uses. This is a conditional use. So the

1:31:36community has a right to know what's in

1:31:38it. Uh it has all the things that are in

1:31:40any hospital. The lower floors are the

1:31:42diagnostic and treatment floors, you

1:31:44know, emergency imaging, uh surgery. of

1:31:47the upper floors are are patient beds,

1:31:50including those behavioral health beds.

1:31:52Um, and then there's all kinds of what

1:31:55we call back of the house stuff, the

1:31:56loading dock and all that. It's

1:31:58important to know that this hospital

1:32:00does operate 247.

1:32:03And you know, one could say that's well,

1:32:05that's a downside. It's always going

1:32:07well, it's an upside. This will be a

1:32:09very active place every hour of the day.

1:32:12There will be people visible inside.

1:32:15There will be traffic around the

1:32:16outside. This will this will be a a a

1:32:19key part of the neighborhood. The

1:32:22helellipad a lot of people have concerns

1:32:24about helellipad. I have spent a large

1:32:27port of my career defending helipads. Um

1:32:31and so this helipad will not hover. The

1:32:34helicopter won't hover. This isn't these

1:32:36aren't like the the folks that do the

1:32:37traffic. They will be in and out. Uh

1:32:40it's not a frequent use. Heather can

1:32:42probably speak better than I can on how

1:32:45frequent it is. There's no fueling

1:32:46there, but it is vital for patients.

1:32:49It'll have a direct connection to ED

1:32:51surgery. Um, some of these patients will

1:32:54be uh, you know, residents in the

1:32:56community that have gone hiking and

1:32:58taken a spill. So, you know, it's it's

1:33:00an it's as important as the ambulance.

1:33:04And then the ambulance, as Amanda noted,

1:33:07uh both the ED walk-in marked with an E

1:33:09and the ambulance marked with an A are

1:33:13in a little courtyard in the middle of

1:33:15the site, discreet. And there's a visual

1:33:17screening from that 1acre open park as

1:33:20well. Uh sirens go silent long before

1:33:23they get to the hospital. Uh partly for

1:33:26the community, but partly for the folks

1:33:27that are sleeping in the hospital. um we

1:33:30have to have room on the site for other

1:33:32emergency vehicles that come with the

1:33:34ambulance and all that. And we do have

1:33:36that separate entry for walk-ins. And

1:33:39then other uses that aren't conditional.

1:33:40There's the medical office building. It

1:33:42has, you know, the outpatient pharmacy.

1:33:44It also has radiation oncology and

1:33:47infusion treatment. Those are a huge

1:33:50asset for the community and the city. As

1:33:52well as a breast center, I mentioned the

1:33:54conference room. And then the upper

1:33:56floors are all, you know, your your

1:33:58doctor's office, your primary care

1:33:59exams. Uh, and they all have back of

1:34:02house connections to the hospital, which

1:34:04really makes it uh and important for if

1:34:07anybody goes code blue during an exam,

1:34:09they've got access right there to the

1:34:11hospital.

1:34:13Um, the cup we've talked about, um, I've

1:34:16spent another third of my career

1:34:18defending cups. Uh, it's not going to be

1:34:20a noisy thing. It's visually discreet.

1:34:22It's not going to blow up. Um it's uh

1:34:25there are emergency generators that get

1:34:27tested once a month. They are noisy, but

1:34:29that's a very intermittent and we try to

1:34:31do it at lunch when nobody notices. Um

1:34:34and then there's the parking structure

1:34:35and you know it's there to support the

1:34:38emergency walk-ins and the patients and

1:34:41visitors that are coming. Uh and we're,

1:34:43you know, we've it sounds like we didn't

1:34:45we didn't anticipate, we was just forgot

1:34:47that we've got a public on all sides of

1:34:50that parking structure and uh you know,

1:34:52including the oneacre park and we need

1:34:54to we need to do what we can to to

1:34:56screen it and and abide the the spirit.

1:34:59And from a stacking point of view, I

1:35:01don't go need to go through the details,

1:35:02but you can see how the hospital is tied

1:35:05together and uh a certain density that's

1:35:08there.

1:35:09Visual tour. This is just great for

1:35:11folks in the room that want to know what

1:35:13this might look like. There you have the

1:35:15MLB on the the left, the hospital on the

1:35:18right. Uh this view we've seen before at

1:35:20the intersection of 800 South and Main

1:35:22Street. Uh just a closeup of that um u

1:35:26outlaw drop off uh for the hospital. Um

1:35:29this is going around the block. This is

1:35:31now State Street on the right and 800

1:35:34South. This is the side that will expand

1:35:36in future and we'll have images of how

1:35:38that might be done. Um, but the food

1:35:40court you see uh on the the corner

1:35:43there, we'll have many more images of

1:35:44that. Then we round the corner up to

1:35:46Main Street in 700 South. This is the

1:35:49development that includes the Sappa

1:35:51restaurant. We often call it the Sappa

1:35:52property. You can see the parking

1:35:54structure on 700 South. There we've got

1:35:57some visual screening in place. We may

1:35:59need more. Uh we'll be working on that.

1:36:02This is that aerial view that Amanda

1:36:04shared. So you can see that that

1:36:05courtyard in the center that has couple

1:36:08of canopies for the ED walk-in and the

1:36:10ambulance entry. And this is a view one

1:36:14view from that 1acre park looking

1:36:16towards the hospital. This is the the

1:36:19corner of Main Street and 700 South.

1:36:22This is the view one would have from

1:36:24tracks as you're turning the corner

1:36:25there. The MOB also will expand and it

1:36:28will expand on that side on the right

1:36:30and come toward the corner. It won't

1:36:32come won't come all the way up to the

1:36:33corner. there will still be open space

1:36:34left. And this is a view of again the

1:36:38the not approved um pull out uh for the

1:36:42MOB. And you can see that the the the

1:36:45patient bridge that connects to the

1:36:46parking structure across the street.

1:36:49So going through the development

1:36:51agreement, I'm not going to labor over

1:36:53these. Uh we've had some good discussion

1:36:56about them. We are obviously there's the

1:36:58design standards are the the foundation

1:37:01of everything that happens in Salt Lake

1:37:02City and the development agreement is an

1:37:04amendment to that. Um and uh some of the

1:37:08the pieces that it addresses well

1:37:09they're all listed here uh and we'll go

1:37:12through these one at a time but we'll go

1:37:13quickly so just tell me to stop at any

1:37:16point. We'll start with the active

1:37:17ground floor uses. Amanda uh outlined

1:37:21that. I I have to admit we relied more

1:37:23on the reception lobby uh piece for

1:37:26interior spaces than other things. We we

1:37:28don't have a salon, but um uh we looked

1:37:32at each facade carefully and tried to do

1:37:34our homework in terms of what was the

1:37:36overall length of the street, what were

1:37:38the outdoor activations, what were the

1:37:40indoor ones. Um and you know identifying

1:37:44those. Uh, as I said, these waiting

1:37:46areas, there's just, I mean, there's

1:37:49just a lot of activity. People are going

1:37:50to be walking around, people are going

1:37:52to be talking, physicians are going to

1:37:54be there at nighttime, uh, in the

1:37:56evening hours. Uh, it will be an active

1:37:58space. Uh, and the same with the

1:38:00hospital here. Looking at the the south

1:38:03facade, again, we did this exercise. Uh,

1:38:07I won't belabor that. Uh same thing with

1:38:09the north where we've got the the retail

1:38:12space that will it'll probably be

1:38:14glassier than that of course and uh on

1:38:17the east facade it's primarily the food

1:38:19truck and and dining. So the uh public

1:38:22open space is a a a big piece and the

1:38:26desire for that uh approximately

1:38:30one acre generally located in the middle

1:38:33of the block and we've done our best to

1:38:35do that. Um and uh so we've got the

1:38:381acre park and you know we've started

1:38:41you know just diagramming what it might

1:38:43be in terms of how we could have some

1:38:46areas of of play uh some areas of tree

1:38:49covers uh we might have pergolas we

1:38:52might have more pergolas that we've got

1:38:54all kinds of donor opportunity there and

1:38:56we're trying to balance placemaker but

1:38:58also site security you know there's

1:39:01nighttime and things like that making

1:39:03sure that that's a secure place and

1:39:04here's a view uh uh within that um that

1:39:08open space

1:39:10and another view. Um and then there's

1:39:13the the welcome plaza at the the main

1:39:16intersection. You know, we're really

1:39:17thinking of that again as being a

1:39:19vibrant space including some cult some

1:39:21sculpture. It may include a water

1:39:23feature. Again, we will, you know, as

1:39:26design progresses, we will see what

1:39:27opportunities there are there. again

1:39:29balancing uh the experience uh against

1:39:32you know uh any any issues that might be

1:39:35of concern to the city. The food truck I

1:39:38I just want to correct one thing that

1:39:41Amanda said. Amanda said that the

1:39:44development agreement asked for a food

1:39:46truck court. Uh and actually what the

1:39:49development agreement asks for is 150

1:39:52linear feet and we have provided that

1:39:55both short-term and long-term but in

1:39:57different ways. So the first one is to

1:40:00indeed have that food truck court

1:40:02because we really feel there's an

1:40:04opportunity for that amenity and that

1:40:06site is going to be open uh for for some

1:40:08time. Why not why not use it and make

1:40:10the most of it? And so we're showing

1:40:13this site the red line is just the

1:40:15property outside of which is not our

1:40:17development. But, uh, within that food

1:40:20court, we're really looking at at, as

1:40:22Amanda said, a combination of a place

1:40:25for the trucks and people to circulate,

1:40:27a place for people to dine under a nice

1:40:30pergola, etc. Um, and and we really

1:40:33anticipate this being a vibrant space.

1:40:36We understand the concern about

1:40:39restrooms. Again, uh, that's that's a

1:40:43that's a bit of a logistical logistical

1:40:45quagmire for an operator. are wondering

1:40:48how those get monitored. All kinds of

1:40:50things happen in restrooms. It's really

1:40:53great for those to be in a in the secure

1:40:55zone and not out where anything could

1:40:58happen. We regret the long travel

1:41:00distance, but again, you know, we're

1:41:03we're trying to find that balance

1:41:05between this wonderful community amenity

1:41:08and the security for everybody.

1:41:13Long term uh we are anticipating that

1:41:15the hospital would expand primarily

1:41:17beds. It doesn't necessarily have to

1:41:20extend the the whole first floor. In

1:41:22fact, we're not anticipating it would

1:41:24and that there would be a colonade there

1:41:26probably deep uh just like we have a

1:41:28colonade on the the the first phase and

1:41:31that that 150 ft would now stretch along

1:41:34State Street which is actually the

1:41:35original language of the development

1:41:37agreement. And so, you know, uh the

1:41:40trucks could uh still be aligned in a

1:41:43new configuration and there would be

1:41:44space underneath. It looks narrower in

1:41:46this view, but this view wasn't created

1:41:49with with the intent of of describing

1:41:52all of that. But but we could have

1:41:53plenty of amenities even in the the

1:41:55canopied area that can be nice places to

1:41:58sit. Imagine, you know, if it's raining.

1:42:00So I I think our intent is to to meet it

1:42:03long term and do it with different

1:42:06flavors but with no less energy.

1:42:10Building length this was this was you

1:42:13know no longer applicable due to the

1:42:15development agreement. Uh the driver

1:42:17driveways are important. Uh we're

1:42:20limited to one driveway on 800 South and

1:42:22one on 700 South and we've we've

1:42:24followed that. Um there has been

1:42:27discussion about the left turn from

1:42:29State Street onto the site for

1:42:31ambulances. It would greatly speed

1:42:33arrival time for ambulances and fire

1:42:35trucks. It could save lives, but we

1:42:38understand that that median was just

1:42:40recently developed. So again, that's a

1:42:43difficult decision to make. A pedestrian

1:42:46access to the ED, we've got that. It's

1:42:48clear as a bell right in. There'll be

1:42:50great visibility. Uh and as I said,

1:42:52that's a nice access for folks coming

1:42:54from tracks. Um glass at the ground

1:42:57level in the development agreement. It's

1:42:59a little different from what says in

1:43:01>> Sorry, can you go back to that the

1:43:02previous agreement?

1:43:03>> Sure.

1:43:03>> Thanks. I just want to do parallel to

1:43:05the driveway with

1:43:07>> what's I mean the you say it's a great

1:43:10it's a great connection from tracks.

1:43:13It's a two blocks from tracks.

1:43:15>> Well,

1:43:17the actual That's a good point. Excuse

1:43:19me because I forget where the station

1:43:21is.

1:43:21>> Yeah, exactly. The track is not just

1:43:23getting from the corner. So, you're

1:43:24absolutely right. Yeah. Thank you. Thank

1:43:26you. But it's it's hopefully visible,

1:43:28but yeah, thank you.

1:43:31>> And and would there be also pedestrian

1:43:33access from State Street because there's

1:43:35a bus stop on State Street?

1:43:36>> Correct.

1:43:36>> Yes.

1:43:37>> Okay, great. Thank you.

1:43:38>> Very good. Thank you. I should have

1:43:39shown that, too.

1:43:41>> Uh glass at the ground level. We're we

1:43:43we're fully glazed at the ground level

1:43:45for all these spaces whether they're um

1:43:48you know public amenities or circulation

1:43:50or lobby spaces or waiting etc. Um this

1:43:54one just says if it's not a hospital

1:43:56it'll do something else and weren't

1:43:57going to be a hospital. Um midblock

1:43:59walkways. Oh, this is the exhibit from

1:44:01that previous document that showed those

1:44:03pullouts that we erroneously concluded

1:44:05were okay to do. Um, this one here is

1:44:08about midblock walkways and um, we've

1:44:12really tried to follow the spirit there

1:44:14uh, from the the crosswalks aren't part

1:44:16of this project, but we're anticipating

1:44:17that they might be a nice thing to have

1:44:20uh, somewhere on State Street connecting

1:44:22the midblock into the that central park

1:44:25uh, from 700 South and from Main Street.

1:44:28And we also have uh, a midblock uh,

1:44:31element north of the off-site parking

1:44:33structure that just wants to be part of

1:44:35that as well.

1:44:37Um and just some diagrams of how that

1:44:39might be done. This is State Street in

1:44:41the foreground. Uh you're crossing and

1:44:43you're going it's the landscaping would

1:44:45invite you right into that central open

1:44:47space. So really to try to advertise

1:44:49that for the community as you are

1:44:51welcome here. We want you to

1:44:52participate. This is part of the the the

1:44:55liveless of the facility that we might

1:44:58you know um uh use sculpture or other

1:45:01things to help enhance that crossing.

1:45:04And then again we talked about how that

1:45:06might pass through that oneacre park.

1:45:10Um direct access to ground floor uses.

1:45:12So this is this is the tricky one. Um

1:45:15again this this goes back to the the

1:45:17retail issue. Uh we do have you know

1:45:20access to all those ground floor issues

1:45:23but it's only through two secure

1:45:25vestibules that have a security guard

1:45:27and the metal detector. And um you know

1:45:31I I I don't know how to make the

1:45:33solution more than that. We didn't we

1:45:35didn't think we were violating even the

1:45:38spirit of this one when we were looking

1:45:40at this. We we thought that that having

1:45:43that accessibility would be enough but

1:45:45that conversation can continue. And then

1:45:49the the biggest design standard issue is

1:45:51of course the building materials and

1:45:53we've just gone through that. So I I

1:45:55don't know if more needs to be said

1:45:57there. Um, but this is the text of the

1:46:00design standards for building materials

1:46:03and

1:46:05and wow, how fertuitous that everything

1:46:07just went blank.

1:46:10Um, we had, you know, we just included

1:46:13the language that was already quoted

1:46:15sufficiently about that one. So, I think

1:46:17I think enough has been said about that

1:46:19one. Um, the glass also uh that was

1:46:22covered very well with the the the

1:46:25percentages required. Uh we are on the

1:46:28on the west west elevation we're doing

1:46:31great. We've got all those percentages.

1:46:33But as Amanda noted uh we're not doing

1:46:35great on the south elevation. It's

1:46:37primarily because of the arrangement of

1:46:39the the bedrooms and the bathrooms and

1:46:42just what you can do uh with the upper

1:46:45floors of the hospital building

1:46:47entrances. We we've noted clearly we're

1:46:50more than 40 ft and uh we're we're I I

1:46:54don't know where we can go with that

1:46:55one. Maximum length of blank wall. Yes,

1:46:58we're going to address this one. We'll

1:46:59either have some more ins and outs or we

1:47:01can introduce some fenistration there.

1:47:03We've already started to rectify this

1:47:05one. So, those are in the works and we

1:47:06will we will fully comply there. Upper

1:47:08floor step back. We've got the 30 ft on

1:47:12on the the west side. The only part that

1:47:15doesn't step back is where this elevator

1:47:17and stair tower are, but we've got a

1:47:19significant setback at the sightyard.

1:47:22And on the south, we've got a large

1:47:24setback at level five. Um, screening of

1:47:27mechanical equipment and screening of

1:47:29service areas. We would really like to

1:47:32have a taller screen wall on State

1:47:35Street in front of the loading dock so

1:47:36that trucks the tops of trucks can't be

1:47:39seen. And we would love to incorporate

1:47:41art and make that a real beautiful

1:47:44amenity. Um, and that in in in the

1:47:47future may actually be a backdrop for uh

1:47:50some of the food trucks or food truck

1:47:52dining. So, that's that's an additional

1:47:55request that didn't get get brought up

1:47:57before. Um, and you can see it here just

1:48:00it's just taller and it screens the

1:48:01whole loading dock and of course things

1:48:03like the compactors and stuff like that.

1:48:05Just it's just nice to have that out of

1:48:06view if possible. Uh, there's the plan

1:48:09of that. And then the parking garage or

1:48:12structures. Amanda already noted that um

1:48:15you know some work needs to be done on

1:48:17the south elevation. We we thought well

1:48:19that's not pointing towards the public.

1:48:20That's pointing in inboard to the site.

1:48:22Well of course we put that 1acre park

1:48:24there. So it is pointing to the public

1:48:25and we understand that some screening of

1:48:27that so that you don't see all the

1:48:29slopes would be uh uh the best. And then

1:48:33public improvements sidewalk widths. We

1:48:35will comply with all of those. And there

1:48:37I'm done.

1:48:42anything that you want to add?

1:48:45>> Go ahead and then I if you're all ready,

1:48:46I will add additional

1:48:48>> No, no, I'm I was just reading through

1:48:50something. So, please go ahead.

1:48:51>> Uh, so in conclusion, so Eric, thank you

1:48:54so very much for allowing that. What we

1:48:56what we wanted to make sure that each of

1:48:58you um had the the ability to either ask

1:49:00questions about but also the ability to

1:49:02understand is we are expecting to bring

1:49:05a massive amount of life and vibrancy

1:49:09down to uh an area of our city that

1:49:12really needs it. Uh you will see over

1:49:142,000 individuals through that 24-hour

1:49:16period, 7 days a week down on our city

1:49:19block. And uh with a lot of these things

1:49:21that we're focusing on, it really does

1:49:23come down. Yeah. Yeah. There there are a

1:49:25lot of elements that were discussed here

1:49:26today, I do want to make sure we're also

1:49:28talking about that safety piece. And as

1:49:30we talk about those entrances, that

1:49:32really is about our public safety, our

1:49:34patient safety, our caregivers safety,

1:49:36anybody who's walking through the

1:49:37building. Um healthcare has evolved in

1:49:39the last many years, specifically in the

1:49:41last four years as we've been doing

1:49:42this. And uh we've come up with what we

1:49:45think are really elegant, very

1:49:47publicfriendly facing solutions as

1:49:50individuals walk through what can be

1:49:52seen as not very friendly like a

1:49:54magnetometer, a a uh you know things

1:49:56that uh that make sure that we

1:49:58understand what is coming into the

1:49:59hospital. Uh but the experience that

1:50:01we've created is very welcoming. Uh that

1:50:03outpatient pharmacy for me is a really

1:50:05big deal. We don't have one in the

1:50:07downtown area. In fact, you have to go

1:50:09quite a few blocks um away to be able to

1:50:12access any area for outpatient pharmacy

1:50:14in an area that really needs it. And so

1:50:16this is that was one of the things that

1:50:18we anchored on as we were thinking

1:50:20through what ground level activation

1:50:21looked like is making sure we had the

1:50:24ability to connect with our community in

1:50:26a way that yes, it's healthcare facing

1:50:27and focused, but is really addressing a

1:50:30full community need. And so that that

1:50:32entrance thing is a balance for us to

1:50:34make sure that people coming in do feel

1:50:35safe but that they also have really

1:50:37important access to to community needs.

1:50:42>> Great. Thank you. Um yeah we can just

1:50:45bring it back to the commission.

1:50:47>> Um I had a question. The you talked

1:50:49about the routine maintenance testing.

1:50:51Can you explain what that is?

1:50:54>> Absolutely. So, uh, one time a month we

1:50:56do preventative maintenance testing on a

1:50:59lot of the different services that are

1:51:00required to make sure that, um, should

1:51:02we lose power, we've got redundant

1:51:04power. Should we have an earthquake,

1:51:05we've got the ability to recover from

1:51:07that. And so once a month, we do that,

1:51:09uh, that safety testing. And depending

1:51:11on what we're t testing, but I think the

1:51:13one that Eric was referencing was the

1:51:14generator testing where once a month um,

1:51:17that sound is a little bit loud and

1:51:18we've been doing it in the avenues for

1:51:20122 years on a monthly basis. Um it is

1:51:23not something especially considering

1:51:25where it is within that block that I

1:51:26expect to be disruptive. Um where it is

1:51:29now in the avenues avenues is not

1:51:30disruptive and it is significantly more

1:51:33embedded within the community and is not

1:51:35a cause for concern.

1:51:36>> Thank you. Um and then just to help me

1:51:39conceptualize what what's the size of

1:51:42this hospital compared to LDS?

1:51:43>> Yeah. Uh so uh in square footage or in

1:51:47bed size or

1:51:48>> um I guess probably number of patients a

1:51:50conservative

1:51:51>> number of patients is going to be

1:51:52extraordinarily similar. Uh we we we

1:51:55will we will see I our expectation is

1:51:58that by moving downtown and creating

1:52:00that access point with tracks the two

1:52:02freeway entrances state street and Main

1:52:04Street um that we will see a lot more

1:52:06foot traffic. Uh we will see a lot more

1:52:08car traffic in our emergency rooms in

1:52:10our impatient areas. So, we're planning

1:52:12for that, but we're doing it in a very

1:52:14thoughtful phased approach. So, what we

1:52:15see at LDS hospital, we do anticipate um

1:52:18which by the way, uh we are a 262

1:52:21licensed bed facility now. Um we don't

1:52:23always have patients in every one of

1:52:25those beds. We expect that to translate

1:52:27down directly and then to grow over the

1:52:29course of the next many years. Where I

1:52:31do anticipate seeing more volume almost

1:52:34immediately is our emergency room and

1:52:37some of those areas that we've by design

1:52:38put on uh our ground level like our

1:52:41cancer services and a few others that

1:52:43become a lot more easily accessible to

1:52:45patients than they than they are now up

1:52:47in the avenues.

1:52:50>> I I have a couple questions. Um, I feel

1:52:54like if you need bathrooms that need to

1:52:57be convenient and accessible to the

1:52:59public that and need to be near the um,

1:53:02food court or the food truck court, it's

1:53:04kind of like when you go to the national

1:53:06park, they have bathrooms that are

1:53:08accessible from outside that are in the

1:53:10same building as the visitors center but

1:53:12not the same building, right? Like that

1:53:13seems like I don't know why that can't

1:53:15be done in a hospital stage or where you

1:53:18go into the pharmacy from outside which

1:53:20I think is really important. I think

1:53:21that um we have for lots of years and

1:53:25and city council care a lot about street

1:53:28activation and like specifically ask you

1:53:31need to be able to walk from the outside

1:53:33to have something that's happening in

1:53:34this building that people walk right

1:53:36outside to inside. So why can't you walk

1:53:39into the pharmacy but not be in the

1:53:41hospital? Um like I walk into Einstein

1:53:44Bagel and I'm not in Caputo's. It's in

1:53:46the same building but I'm not in it.

1:53:48Right. that so Caputo doesn't even need

1:53:50to know I'm over here kind of thing.

1:53:52Like it seems like those street

1:53:54activations, a coffee shop, a retail

1:53:56pharmacy can be in the hospital building

1:53:58but not need to be hospital people that

1:54:02are in it if that makes sense. Um, and I

1:54:04think I I really think that that robust

1:54:07direct access ground floor activation is

1:54:10super important. And I I don't

1:54:14anticipate a lot of give on that where

1:54:17where there has to be a balance

1:54:18obviously between safety and um and that

1:54:22activation, but it also seems really

1:54:24possible. It happens in other building.

1:54:26And I'm not a hospital expert,

1:54:28obviously, so maybe it's impossible, but

1:54:30it seems like it could be more possible

1:54:31than than walking a football field and a

1:54:34half to use the bathroom um and having

1:54:37to go through a metal detector to use a

1:54:39bathroom if you're at the food court

1:54:40when the food court's an important part

1:54:42of the whole um picture. Um and also the

1:54:46the durable building materials also

1:54:48seems like I just don't I just don't

1:54:51remember us giving that up as easily as

1:54:53it sounds like. Um, I just don't because

1:54:57it's a big deal because people don't

1:54:58want a stucco hospital in the middle of

1:55:01Salt Lake City and that's what it sounds

1:55:03like EFS is and if there's a way to

1:55:07avoid that um

1:55:10because we because we see what that

1:55:12looks like after a few years on other um

1:55:14buildings and it's not it's I I hope

1:55:17that it would be avoidable and I if the

1:55:20question is is there a lot of give on

1:55:22that there's not a lot of give on that

1:55:23from me. So that's what I think.

1:55:27>> Could I could I just answer that? So I I

1:55:29love the national park story because I I

1:55:31love the n I love hiking and doing that,

1:55:33but most of those buildings aren't as

1:55:36secure as a hospital. So let's take the

1:55:38outpatient pharmacy. Yes, you could

1:55:40carve out a space and say, you know,

1:55:42there's back of the house connection.

1:55:43Staff can go back and forth, but the

1:55:45public comes in and goes out through the

1:55:46front and that's great. It's detached.

1:55:48The problem is that pharmacy is also

1:55:50serving inpatients and outpatients that

1:55:53we don't want going outside before to to

1:55:56get the drugs they need to be

1:55:57discharged. And so if if we have an

1:56:00indoor connection for patients and an

1:56:02outdoor connection for public, someone

1:56:04can take a gun through the outdoor

1:56:06connection, go through the other door

1:56:07and get into the hospital. This is what

1:56:09we're trying to avoid. I I can't

1:56:12accentuate enough how prevalent these

1:56:16days the acts of violence can be within

1:56:20a hospital, especially a gang related

1:56:22event or something in the emergency room

1:56:25or somebody wants to silence a witness.

1:56:28Uh this is it's truly life and death. So

1:56:31that's that's what we're we're we're

1:56:33being really conservative about that

1:56:36security and and so the issue the

1:56:39outpatient pharmacy might not be the

1:56:40best example. I I'm just say

1:56:43>> I would also love to address the

1:56:45bathroom uh statement because I I do

1:56:47understand the concern. Um and that is

1:56:50actually meant to walk anybody that

1:56:52wants to to access that restroom um past

1:56:55a safety and security officer who will

1:56:57have eyes on what is going in and out of

1:56:59that bathroom. um having it with an

1:57:02exterior entrance where that food court

1:57:04is where we won't have safety and

1:57:06security officers there 24 hours a day

1:57:09seven days a week but rather than that

1:57:10rather that would be rounding as opposed

1:57:12to where that hospital entrance assures

1:57:14we've got eyes on who is coming in and

1:57:16out of the building is by design and I I

1:57:19clearly hear the the statement around is

1:57:22it a little bit less accessible to our

1:57:24public absolutely it is it also creates

1:57:26a sense of safety for anybody choosing

1:57:28to go from that food truck um uh

1:57:32location, that eating location uh to a

1:57:34restroom that will be within the

1:57:35hospital.

1:57:38>> I mean, you like the the retail pharmacy

1:57:41is a perhaps not the best example,

1:57:43although I certainly can imagine even

1:57:44off the top of my head an option like

1:57:46having a desk that opens, you know, back

1:57:48of house, so you're not actually having

1:57:50anybody walk through. Um,

1:57:53I just it it it

1:57:57seems to me, right, like what what

1:57:58you're saying is like this is a safety

1:58:00issue. It's a big deal. Like we we

1:58:01cannot we cannot back down on this. You

1:58:05did back down on this, right? Like that

1:58:07the development agreement seems to me to

1:58:09be pretty unamiguous. That that every

1:58:12retail site needs to have its own

1:58:15accessible entrance. That was the

1:58:17agreement. I'm sure that many many

1:58:18lawyers looked over it. And so, um, it

1:58:23seems a little bit surprising to me that

1:58:25what's what's coming back to us now is,

1:58:29well, we can't do that. That's not safe,

1:58:31right? We can't create a secured

1:58:33envelope. Um, and and that is that is

1:58:35separate from the building or that is

1:58:37somehow distinct from the building. Um

1:58:39and I just want to understand what

1:58:42happened in the course of the five years

1:58:44that this this process has been ongoing

1:58:46where five years ago IH was was willing

1:58:50to say like yes we will we will sign

1:58:52this agreement and now we are saying

1:58:55well let's rules lawyer it a little bit

1:58:57that seems to me to be concerning so I

1:58:59am hoping you can help me understand

1:59:01what changed

1:59:05>> I don't believe it said in the

1:59:07development agreement that every single

1:59:09one of our ground level activation

1:59:10elements had to have direct access to

1:59:13the outside of my text right here. Okay.

1:59:15>> So, so yeah, the I so, so again, as we

1:59:18were designing this, um, we went through

1:59:22line by line, word by word to make sure

1:59:25that as we came back, um, we were both

1:59:28meeting what needed to be done for

1:59:30safety. But also, you know, I I think

1:59:32it's been uh made very clear that

1:59:34literally from day one of us moving

1:59:36forward with a hospital on this block,

1:59:38we have by design engaged with our

1:59:41community partners by design enga and

1:59:43asked for significant public opinion to

1:59:47asssure that what we're doing meets the

1:59:48needs of the community. And so we we

1:59:50were very thoughtful and deliberate in

1:59:53the way we both um worked from the

1:59:56development agreement and then put

1:59:57forward what this design was. You know,

1:59:59as you look at that and it talks about

2:00:01the reception and lobby being part of

2:00:03that ground level activation. As we were

2:00:05doing that design, we were being very

2:00:06thoughtful about, okay, you can see the

2:00:08glass as you walk through and you can

2:00:10see that outpatient pharmacy. So, you've

2:00:12got that connection point to both the

2:00:14outpatient pharmacy, the reception and

2:00:16lobby. So, from my perspective, we by

2:00:20design went line by line to meet each of

2:00:22the elements of the of the development

2:00:23agreement and and I would welcome a

2:00:25conversation should there be a

2:00:27perception that that is not the case.

2:00:28Yeah, Amanda,

2:00:30>> I I just want to speak to the the DA.

2:00:34The language says all of the active

2:00:36ground floor uses on the property shall

2:00:38have direct access to these sidewalk or

2:00:40midblock walkways through doors that are

2:00:41open during business hours. And then the

2:00:43other thing I just wanted to touch on,

2:00:45um, you know, a lot of the conversations

2:00:47we're having are about intent, right?

2:00:49And so, um, for example, I was asked,

2:00:54here's the, uh, the exhibit that was in

2:00:57the DA, like, are we meeting the intent?

2:00:59And the midblock walkways are not in the

2:01:03same location perfectly as the exhibit,

2:01:05right? But the intent is there. And so,

2:01:08if with all of these things, either it's

2:01:12a black and white or it's an intent, but

2:01:14it it

2:01:16it has to be consistent, I guess. Um,

2:01:18and at this time it's not consistent

2:01:21because some of the items are based on

2:01:23intent and then some of the items um

2:01:25that are being addressed are based on

2:01:27the plain language of the the DA. Um,

2:01:30but I think with the DA, you can't cover

2:01:33you can't cover everything, right? Um,

2:01:35and that's why some things were just uh

2:01:38completely spoken to like building

2:01:39length, remove it from the equation. Um,

2:01:43but the DA did come from

2:01:48years of conversations. And so when I

2:01:50was reviewing these plans, I'm looking

2:01:52more at the intent um of of the proposal

2:01:57of the design and does it meet the DA

2:01:59because holding, you know, holding them

2:02:01perfectly to the midblock walkways isn't

2:02:04isn't going to

2:02:06necessarily be possible, right? Um, so I

2:02:09did Yeah, there's kind of this back and

2:02:10forth. Sometimes we talk about intent,

2:02:12sometimes we talk about black and white.

2:02:14So we have I think we need to choose

2:02:16maybe choose one and then move forward

2:02:18with that. But

2:02:20uh planning we're looking more at the

2:02:22intent and um on how the the project's

2:02:26meeting the the DA.

2:02:28>> Yeah. Yeah. I I feel like um well I

2:02:32first off I've seen you guys I've

2:02:35there's been conversations with small

2:02:37community councils about this project.

2:02:40Um, and so I I know you guys have been

2:02:44doing a lot of work to really make sure

2:02:46that this integrates well with our city

2:02:48and um, and I like you said, it's going

2:02:53to activate this space and it's going to

2:02:55make a big huge difference in a a part

2:02:58of our city that is currently literally

2:03:01a hole. Um, so uh, so I respect a lot of

2:03:07that. I think it's a it's it's really

2:03:10really commendable work. Um I think to

2:03:15the like comment of spirit of the law, I

2:03:18think that there is potentially some

2:03:21middle ground. I we spend so much time

2:03:24and passion in trying to figure out how

2:03:27to create a public realm that encourages

2:03:29people to be able to move from one place

2:03:31to another. and uh a giant uh like our

2:03:37blocks are so big. They're three times

2:03:40the size of a Portland block. Um so

2:03:44somebody walking across there without

2:03:46interest is really difficult. So to the

2:03:50like spirit of the law, if we could

2:03:54figure out how to have like a closed

2:03:56envelope

2:03:57uh that there is literally a wall that

2:04:00you cannot enter the hospital but gives

2:04:04some kind of public space activation. Um

2:04:09it would be unfortunate that then

2:04:11hospital patients can't engage with a

2:04:13restaurant or whatever uh on Main

2:04:15Street, but if we're able to have some

2:04:18kind of something that helps us be able

2:04:22to say this is not a dead space for

2:04:27pedestrians who are not picking up a

2:04:29prescription. um and that people can

2:04:34pass by and we're so close to connecting

2:04:37to the Neline Trail. It's two blocks to

2:04:40be able to get from active downtown uses

2:04:44to the Neline Trail and this block is

2:04:47one of them. And this is something that

2:04:50I want to be in our city forever. So, we

2:04:54need to do it right the first time

2:04:55because it's not going to go anywhere.

2:04:58So, we need something to be able to

2:05:00activate, particularly Main Street is

2:05:03the biggest thing. Um, and I'm sure you

2:05:06guys can figure out a way whether it's

2:05:08like a attached building to the

2:05:12structure that does not have any access

2:05:16at all to the interior. I I'm not saying

2:05:18that that's what the right decision is.

2:05:20I'm just saying like I'm hearing from

2:05:23the commission and I think the city

2:05:24council will also feel the same way that

2:05:28we are going to need some active use. Um

2:05:31>> may I [clears throat] put something in

2:05:32your mind just and it's it's adjacent to

2:05:34this so I'm not intending to take us

2:05:36away from this portion of the

2:05:37conversation. Um but we will need to

2:05:40connect in conversation the parking

2:05:42structure that is also on Main Street

2:05:44with our medical office building and the

2:05:46expectation and the the intent that we

2:05:48are meeting uh is that that that the the

2:05:52ground level of that parking structure

2:05:54does have multiple ground level

2:05:56activation sites. So I also hear what

2:05:58you're saying on the medical office

2:06:00building side. But I I also want to be

2:06:02very clear. It is not the intent that

2:06:04this is going to be a walled off no

2:06:08access point as folks are choosing to

2:06:10walk from Solgave down to our our small,

2:06:13you know, the the edge of our block or

2:06:14from um from uh the Thai restaurant

2:06:17that's on 800 South up through Maine or

2:06:19up up on State Street. So, so we we are

2:06:22thinking through what community

2:06:25services, resources, retail space can

2:06:27and should be embedded within that park,

2:06:30the multiple parking structures that

2:06:32will have ground level activation. Um,

2:06:34as well as how we then create those

2:06:35connection spots. So, absolutely hearing

2:06:37what you're saying. I know that's not

2:06:39part of this conversation. I just don't

2:06:41want to lose sight of the fact that

2:06:43there are additional um activation

2:06:45elements that are also a part of this

2:06:48this this massive conversation when we

2:06:51talk about the size of the block.

2:06:52>> Mhm.

2:06:53>> Uh size of the block plus.

2:06:54>> Yeah, totally. Um yeah, I I guess like

2:06:58to that point like um that is a

2:07:02of course I'm that's exciting that

2:07:04there's going to be activation on that

2:07:06side of this the street. I right now off

2:07:09the top of my head I don't know the

2:07:10design standards for a parking structure

2:07:13in that circumstance and that needs to

2:07:15be regarded under its own opice uh for

2:07:21the way that it affects the public

2:07:23realm. So like is this current proposal

2:07:26affecting the public public realm the

2:07:29way that um the DA suggests that it

2:07:34should? the spirit of the law. I mean,

2:07:36the spirit says like

2:07:39I don't know. Um, and so this is not

2:07:42like the final decision. We're not

2:07:44making a thing here. Uh, I think that

2:07:48like what my comment is is

2:07:52there a way we can think about a secure

2:07:55space that also has one part of the a

2:08:00whole side of a street that's not uh

2:08:03dead to someone who is not picking up a

2:08:06prescription. Uh, glass is helpful like

2:08:09you were saying like there's going to be

2:08:10a lot of people moving around. That is

2:08:12interest. Um but like public use, active

2:08:15use, um is something that we're really

2:08:20anxious for in this part of the city.

2:08:22And we don't get doovers. This is the

2:08:25hopefully the 300year plan of what

2:08:28happens to this block.

2:08:30>> So as well, we hope so as well.

2:08:32>> Part of activation, what we're trying to

2:08:34look at too is we don't want to put say

2:08:35a salon in there, right? I'm just using

2:08:37that example as one of the things

2:08:38because a salon's not going to stay

2:08:39there, right? It's a hospital. And so

2:08:41part of of looking at it is how do you

2:08:44activate a hospital versus activating a

2:08:46office building or something like that.

2:08:48And so the worst thing that can happen

2:08:50is you put a whole bunch of activation

2:08:51along the street side and then a year

2:08:53from now no one wants to move in because

2:08:55who wants to be next to the hospital

2:08:56that's always has patients and stuff

2:08:58like that because that's what happens in

2:09:00a lot of of these locations where we try

2:09:02we see this happening in the urban

2:09:04environment. So, we will definitely look

2:09:07at some of those things you guys are

2:09:08talking about, but some of, you know,

2:09:10was brought up before, restaurants and

2:09:12stuff like that, they're not necessarily

2:09:14going to want to go there. It's not the

2:09:15most appealing because I can go across

2:09:17the street in terms of building

2:09:19something over there. So, we do have to

2:09:21kind of look at that outweigh iteing

2:09:36that in my mind a captive audience of me

2:09:40waiting for my girlfriend to get out of

2:09:42her surgery that's taking two hours. I'm

2:09:45gonna get a burger. I'm gonna like uh so

2:09:48like I would love to

2:09:51uh understand more data in the next

2:09:54times that we're talking about this the

2:09:56reasons why spaces don't work in order

2:10:00to be able to say like oh yeah no your

2:10:03the request is reasonable um that we

2:10:06don't do this um but currently it feels

2:10:10like like 100% I understand security but

2:10:14like there's a space of like can we

2:10:19this is a massive complex and can we

2:10:21give a piece of the street to the

2:10:24public? I mean a a piece of the building

2:10:28or an attached building or a series of

2:10:31awnings, whatever you guys want to

2:10:33design it as. Like but like how do we

2:10:36get what we're asking for in some way?

2:10:40Um, and if there are uses that are not

2:10:44going to work, we would love to know

2:10:46why. Uh, and the data around that. Um,

2:10:50but I feel like we we currently we're

2:10:53hold we really want to hold to the

2:10:56spirit of that DA. And it doesn't have

2:10:57to be the entire street face. like pitch

2:11:00us something like give us some something

2:11:04that we can say like this is a little

2:11:06more of the spirit of the law that we're

2:11:09we're hoping for.

2:11:10>> Would you be willing to trade one of

2:11:11those for a right of way violation?

2:11:13[snorts]

2:11:13>> Sorry, say that again. [laughter]

2:11:16>> Would you be willing to trade one of

2:11:18those spaces for a right-of-way

2:11:19violation?

2:11:20>> If I had the ability to do anything with

2:11:23public works, then I would consider

2:11:25talking about it.

2:11:27Can I can I just add one additional

2:11:29point of clarity because the way that

2:11:31you referenced, you know, kind of one of

2:11:32the patient experiences, one of the the

2:11:34street experiences, um that that first

2:11:37floor does have a 24hour coffee

2:11:40shop/bastro/ber

2:11:42bar. Um that is meant to be accessible

2:11:44for the public and and you know, again,

2:11:46we will have to assure that individuals

2:11:48that are coming in through uh any of

2:11:50those entrances do go through security

2:11:52to do that. But that is part of what is

2:11:55the intent of this and that 247 piece is

2:11:58really important to the community,

2:12:00really important to a hospital because

2:12:01you've got people there at 3:00 in the

2:12:03morning on a regular basis. So, um, so

2:12:06that they're they're we are actively

2:12:08thinking through what does that look

2:12:10like for somebody who's just walking by,

2:12:13not sure why they're walking by at 3:00

2:12:14in the morning, but they might be

2:12:15walking their dog. Uh, and and want to

2:12:17come through and make sure that they've

2:12:18got that opportunity to grab a c grab a

2:12:20coffee at that same time as well.

2:12:22>> Totally. Yeah. I guess the thing for me

2:12:23is that access point of not being able

2:12:25to if you have to walk to the end of the

2:12:28block to then turn back around to walk

2:12:31again 66.

2:12:33>> And the particular one that she's

2:12:34talking about, if you look, the main

2:12:35entry is right off of this cafe that we

2:12:37talked about that's 247.

2:12:40And so it's is about as close as it you

2:12:41can get. I think he has it right now

2:12:44entrance. Yeah.

2:12:44>> Yeah. that that corner there where you

2:12:46see Grove Cafe where that's where the

2:12:49public seating is in the windows and

2:12:51then that that full corner uh is at is

2:12:54that coral corner is the is the full

2:12:56cafe.

2:12:56>> Yeah, that it wasn't drawn correctly

2:12:58before. It's not just the the area that

2:13:00was circled in red before was just the

2:13:02counter space and the staff. That whole

2:13:04area at the corner is seating for the

2:13:06cafe.

2:13:07I guess I guess what I'm saying is the

2:13:09next time that this is discussed, can we

2:13:13figure out how to

2:13:16uh have some more options within that

2:13:20activation idea? Uh, and I could uh like

2:13:24whether it's a use in the plaza on the

2:13:28corner that is servicing the public or

2:13:32something just get like currently I

2:13:35don't feel like we are fully meeting the

2:13:37spirit and one use is great and of

2:13:40course I'm like yes that's great um and

2:13:43uh I understand the primary use is a

2:13:46hospital um but give us a little

2:13:52idea some a little more something on

2:13:55that spirit um

2:13:58is my comment.

2:14:00>> I appreciate that. Thank you.

2:14:02>> Um one of the things I found very

2:14:04intriguing about this proposal that you

2:14:06have here is the amount of open space.

2:14:07That's something I think a lot of us are

2:14:09talking about. Uh I was talking uh when

2:14:11Amanda was giving her presentation

2:14:13earlier, I asked about uh what would be

2:14:14like the next ver you know what would be

2:14:17a V2 v3 on this one. Obviously, I'm

2:14:20assuming, you know, usage of the

2:14:22hospital would trigger like a need to

2:14:24build a space to get more beds. Yes.

2:14:26Maybe a space um you know, if this is if

2:14:28I don't know if this is a teaching

2:14:29hospital or not, but maybe there's a

2:14:30spot where you're collaborating with

2:14:32like uh universities and med schools and

2:14:34whatnot. But

2:14:35>> one of the concerns is that if we you

2:14:38know, what makes this such an appealing

2:14:40project from here is is the open space

2:14:42and obviously that's going to impact

2:14:44>> Yeah.

2:14:44>> what we you would have to build into the

2:14:46spaces would be there. Uh what would be

2:14:48some of the what would be some of the

2:14:51cons not concessions but rather like uh

2:14:53you know uh guarantees to the community?

2:14:55Yeah.

2:14:56>> That when you're removing open space for

2:14:58the public to enjoy that you'd be

2:15:00replacing it with something that would

2:15:02offset

2:15:03>> the the lack of open spaces available to

2:15:05the public.

2:15:06>> So I'll comment on a couple of things.

2:15:08Uh you know within the within the

2:15:09confines of the development agreement

2:15:11there was that allocation of 1 acre of

2:15:13open space right we're far exceeding

2:15:15that. And I would like to say that it's

2:15:17only because of what we want to do for

2:15:19the community. It's not. I've got

2:15:21patients that stay with me for 3, four,

2:15:23five, 6 weeks at a time. And so having

2:15:26that ability to go outside, use that

2:15:28walking pathway through that midblock um

2:15:31is something that is critical to our

2:15:33patients.

2:15:35part of this the re and again I realize

2:15:36that this isn't the forum for the for

2:15:38the comment about that 8 South and Main

2:15:40Street kind of drop off area and should

2:15:43we have to move the hospital you know

2:15:45into a little bit of a different way

2:15:47what that encroaches on is that one

2:15:49contiguous acre and for us that's a

2:15:51really big deal for my patients that's a

2:15:53really big deal um you the area you're

2:15:56probably referencing is if we build that

2:15:58second bed tower and that goes to where

2:16:00we're so so okay this is great thank you

2:16:02so the the you've got the welcome plaza

2:16:05which is that number one which we do not

2:16:07have any proposal in a second phase to

2:16:09build anything onto uh that number four

2:16:11that you see that we're calling the

2:16:13transportation plaza because that's

2:16:14where tracks runs right around that

2:16:16curve. Um there would be some

2:16:18encroachment into that but not fully

2:16:19encroaching into that. We do not

2:16:21anticipate should we get to you know to

2:16:24be able to build this as as demonstrated

2:16:27that that uh that that walking space

2:16:29that that pergola covered space in six

2:16:31that 1 acre of open space will be

2:16:33impacted seven which is where our re

2:16:36where we think is a really cool food

2:16:38truck location uh will be impacted

2:16:40because what we will do is we will build

2:16:42a second inpatient tower that goes above

2:16:45that space. So, the way that we're

2:16:47thinking through it is the way that

2:16:48we've seen in other urban areas. And

2:16:50again, that that actually doesn't count

2:16:52towards that one uh acre uh that is

2:16:55within the terms of the development

2:16:56agreement. But, um with with what we're

2:16:59trying to create in a community area

2:17:02that again serves, you know, if if we're

2:17:04saying it's 2,000 people in phase one,

2:17:06what does that look like in phase two?

2:17:08And so, we have to have options for

2:17:10individuals to stop for a quick eat. Um,

2:17:12if you've ever been to an urban hospital

2:17:14in LA, New York, Chicago, this is the

2:17:16type of location that kind of food truck

2:17:18roundup where folks stop on their way in

2:17:21or where patients and their family leave

2:17:23the hospital for a second to breathe,

2:17:25grab something to eat, sit down for a

2:17:27moment. And so our thought process is

2:17:29how do we do that with a covered area?

2:17:31How do we do that that extends along

2:17:32that art pathway that we were showing on

2:17:35State Street? So we've gone through

2:17:36multiple iterations. We're still 10 to

2:17:3915 years away from a second phase where

2:17:43that stack goes, but I have to be

2:17:45thoughtful about what that looks like

2:17:47for patients and their families and

2:17:49everybody else in the community that

2:17:50will be choosing to cross State Street

2:17:52to come into this area. So, where it

2:17:54will be impacted is number seven. And

2:17:56that is where we've been thinking

2:17:57through, okay, how do we still create a

2:18:00covered experience that people are

2:18:03willing to cross the street to come to?

2:18:04Because that that really is what it is.

2:18:06It's across State Street. I want folks

2:18:08from the community um uh to cross State

2:18:10Street and come choose at two o'clock in

2:18:12the morning to continue to come to Tacos

2:18:14Don Rafa should they choose to do so.

2:18:16>> Thank you.

2:18:17>> Absolutely.

2:18:18>> I was going to comment. I hope the taco

2:18:20trucks have first dibs. We we also hope

2:18:23that they choose to be there because you

2:18:25know again as I as I come down from the

2:18:27hospital at any given hour it it is a

2:18:30stopping location for me.

2:18:31>> Great. I just had one more comment for

2:18:33staff more um on the the design

2:18:36standards table. It's super helpful if

2:18:39the modification that's requested is

2:18:42just summarized right there so we can

2:18:44compare like in the next iteration.

2:18:46>> Yeah. Um in the final report you will

2:18:48have so many tables you will be

2:18:51[laughter]

2:18:52>> it'll be so it was Yeah.

2:18:54>> I love tables. Thanks.

2:18:56>> No. Yeah. you will have tables with all

2:18:59the percentages and that's what I and

2:19:00that's what I need on the plan set to be

2:19:03able to uh fully speak to it but you

2:19:07will you will have

2:19:08>> I have a [laughter] a question about the

2:19:10upper floor transparency. Um you are the

2:19:14experts on this but um I of course have

2:19:18like like many others have heard pop

2:19:20science about windows and light and

2:19:22patient

2:19:23>> health and everything. So um so tell me

2:19:27like what what does that reduction do

2:19:32for patients if it is true that it's

2:19:35like be having access to the windows for

2:19:38a patient has all of these health

2:19:40outcomes in a hospital what um what's

2:19:43the reasoning? Um

2:19:45>> so I I'll make a comment and then I'd

2:19:47ask Eric to do that as well. Really my

2:19:49my understanding and not an architect so

2:19:52put putting that out there. Um, you

2:19:54know, we we actually will have more

2:19:56window space for our patient rooms than

2:19:58what we have now. What will be covered

2:20:00because of where their location is is

2:20:02the privacy in the restrooms. And so

2:20:05when you think through, you know, kind

2:20:06of the way that that structures, you're

2:20:07going to have more window space for our

2:20:09patients. And we are actually really

2:20:12excited and really proud of what that

2:20:13looks like for our patients. Even our

2:20:15NICU, so that's the neonatal ICU, even

2:20:18our NICU babies will have daylight that

2:20:20are that is coming through because

2:20:21that's really important to them as well.

2:20:23So we've been very thoughtful about how

2:20:26we assure that every single patient room

2:20:28has daylight that will help um with that

2:20:31health outcomes uh with those health

2:20:33outcomes. But there are elements in that

2:20:35design that we have to be thoughtful of

2:20:36about okay well we don't need a we don't

2:20:39want a window in the bathroom uh

2:20:42especially as we're thinking through

2:20:43what that means for patients. Eric, what

2:20:44else would you add to that? So I would

2:20:46just say so this this is a a standard

2:20:49layout for Inner Mountain in terms of

2:20:50the beds and uh first things first a lot

2:20:54of hospitals have mirrored rooms uh and

2:20:56Inner Mountain chose some years ago to

2:20:58go to the uh uh the same-handed rooms to

2:21:01really minimize mistakes that can happen

2:21:03when people forget which side the the

2:21:05drawers on or the equipment etc. So that

2:21:08means that all the rooms have the same

2:21:10configuration more or less. And then

2:21:13then the placement of the bathroom is

2:21:14the reason I bring that up is that there

2:21:16are three options typically for bathroom

2:21:19placement. One of those is we call the

2:21:21midboard where there there the bathrooms

2:21:24there's two bathrooms in between the

2:21:25rooms. But you can't do that with

2:21:27same-handed rooms. It wouldn't work. So

2:21:29um we're left with two choices. One is

2:21:31an inboard toilet we call it next to the

2:21:33corridor. You see that in a lot of old

2:21:35hospitals. you kind of pass by the

2:21:37bathroom on the way in and it was done

2:21:39that way in the olden days so that the

2:21:41the big uh sloppy mop cart wasn't going

2:21:44past the bash beds. Well, they don't use

2:21:46those big sloppy mop carts anymore. It's

2:21:48a lot more uh modern. The other approach

2:21:51is the outboard patient bathroom. And

2:21:53the reason for that is it maximizes

2:21:55visibility from the nurse to the

2:21:57patient. And another uh development over

2:22:00the years has been to decentralize

2:22:02nursing. You no longer have a big nurse

2:22:04station. You don't see one here. There's

2:22:05a nurse between every two pairs of of

2:22:09every two rooms and they can see

2:22:11directly into the patient room. So this

2:22:13gives maximum visibility to the patient

2:22:14which is really vital for outcomes. The

2:22:16window area is what's left between the

2:22:19bathroom and the wall. But this is a big

2:22:21window. This is an 8ft window. It's got

2:22:23room for the family there. Um and we

2:22:26have windows into the bathroom too

2:22:29and and uh you know screens so that they

2:22:31you can't look in from an upper story.

2:22:34But it that's a great way to reduce slip

2:22:36and falls and bring more light into the

2:22:37patient room. So, and this window is

2:22:40directly aligned with the patient's head

2:22:41that's right there. So, they can turn

2:22:42and see out the window. That's where the

2:22:44model comes from.

2:22:46>> Thank you. That was very clear.

2:22:50>> Um,

2:22:52couple questions. So, the walk-in drop

2:22:55off and EMS drop off, are those staff

2:22:58only entrances or are they open? Uh so

2:23:01your the ED drop off uh is it's really

2:23:04meant for entry by two uh two groups.

2:23:07First is walk-ins and so that's as you

2:23:09come through that ma the 700 south

2:23:12entrance um individuals that need

2:23:14emergency services would come in there

2:23:16park and walk into that emergency

2:23:18entrance uh which is right there in that

2:23:20E as you see up on the screen. Uh A is

2:23:24that secondary entry point which is EMS.

2:23:26So that's going to be our trucks that

2:23:28come in and drop off patients. So there

2:23:30will be multiple bays uh well multiple

2:23:32bays for their parking and then an

2:23:34access point for those EMS trucks in the

2:23:37middle of the block.

2:23:38>> Okay. So E is a public access access

2:23:41point. Um so that but that wasn't on the

2:23:44what you were showing before about

2:23:46entrances on the block face. So

2:23:48>> correct. We were really focusing on that

2:23:49Main Street 800 South which probably was

2:23:52we probably should have shown.

2:23:53>> No, that's fine. Um and so that one

2:23:55would also have uh metal detector

2:23:57security

2:23:57>> guard more than the others cuz that's

2:23:59the emergency room is the hot spots.

2:24:01>> Yeah. Um and then

2:24:07I I I think staff has laid it out really

2:24:10well and I kind of agree with with their

2:24:12points. I think there's some give and

2:24:13take on the um

2:24:17on the durable materials. Um but yeah,

2:24:21we do want it to be something permanent.

2:24:23Nice. Um, and then I I also like

2:24:29the stuff that

2:24:33I I have trouble thinking of that as as

2:24:36ground floor activation if it's

2:24:38something you can't go in and out of.

2:24:39And so I do struggle reconciling that.

2:24:42Um, I

2:24:44wonder if [snorts]

2:24:46the solution then is I mean these are

2:24:50just things I'm throwing out randomly,

2:24:51right? But maybe then there's also a

2:24:55entrance over by more by the food truck

2:24:58area and that also has a security guard

2:25:01and a a metal detector and then at least

2:25:03there's there you can flow in and flow

2:25:06through and so maybe that adds that

2:25:08point. Um the other thing I thought

2:25:10about was just when you were talking

2:25:11about um

2:25:13that that green space is kind of

2:25:15integral to your actual patients. Um, I

2:25:17was I was trying to like map out how

2:25:20they go out to that and I imagine it

2:25:22would be through

2:25:23>> the emergency. Okay.

2:25:25>> Um, that makes more sense than what I

2:25:27was thinking of going out and around.

2:25:29Um, but I I also think that um

2:25:34maybe another entrance on the end of the

2:25:36mo like maybe

2:25:39that but those also being secure points

2:25:41but still making it so that it's

2:25:42something that people can flow through

2:25:44cuz when there really is just one

2:25:45entrance in it does feel um it does feel

2:25:49limiting and it's it is visual interest

2:25:51that stuff's going on in there but it's

2:25:53not activation. Um,

2:25:56and then my

2:26:00uh my research on this is very anecdotal

2:26:03and just what I was looking at, but are

2:26:06um are other hospitals in Salt Lake uh

2:26:10do they have metal detectors and

2:26:12screenings at because I St. Marks

2:26:14doesn't I believe and the University of

2:26:16Utah doesn't

2:26:17>> unfortunately um most health systems are

2:26:19moving towards it. Uh in Utah, we had

2:26:21the awesome um I guess privilege that we

2:26:24were about 15 to 20 years behind what a

2:26:27lot of the other urban cities were. Um

2:26:29Inter Mountain moved towards that about

2:26:3218 months ago. And I know at least one

2:26:35of the two systems that you referenced

2:26:36are uh putting them in right now. Um

2:26:39based off of active shooter threats,

2:26:41based a lot of things that are happening

2:26:44both nationally but also locally. Um my

2:26:47expectation is that all health uh health

2:26:49institutions within the state within the

2:26:51next few years will have them and we're

2:26:53doing it um really to asssure that our

2:26:56anyone that walks in through the doors

2:26:57of an inter mountain facility feels

2:26:58feels safe and we are starting with our

2:27:01larger hospitals as well as those that

2:27:03are more urban which is LDS hospital and

2:27:05a few of the others in the valley.

2:27:07>> Okay. Because I was also going to ask

2:27:08it's Inner Mountain the

2:27:10>> Instaare Clinic on fourth doesn't have

2:27:13that.

2:27:14>> Nope. They've got a security guard that

2:27:15sits there. uh the during all hours, but

2:27:18uh and and if you were to go to Riverton

2:27:19Hospital, they don't have it there. But

2:27:21you come to Inter Mountain Medical

2:27:22Center in Murray, LDS Hospital in the

2:27:24avenues um based off of some of uh you

2:27:27know, again, the urban events that have

2:27:29happened nationally, that is a choice

2:27:31we've made to assure that we've got uh

2:27:33we've got safety and security parameters

2:27:35put into place.

2:27:36>> Okay. Yeah. I was just I was wondering

2:27:37about the way that other hospitals might

2:27:39do it and if it's a having more people

2:27:41if there's kind of an alternative path

2:27:43in that way. But um

2:27:44>> it's kind of a both because you you do

2:27:46have to have somebody that if somebody

2:27:47does walk through a metal metal detector

2:27:49that can be there with that human to

2:27:51make sure that uh whatever is on that

2:27:53person is no longer on that person. So

2:27:55it's it's kind of a both.

2:27:56>> Um

2:27:57>> most of the hospitals that we're we're

2:27:59doing as HDR. Uh we're doing a lot of

2:28:01retrofits of locations where we're

2:28:02putting in the security settings and

2:28:04most if not all of them are actually

2:28:06putting some type of security into them

2:28:08because they're finding and that's over

2:28:10the the whole United States that we're

2:28:12starting to see that. And then for

2:28:13Interm Mountain, we're also working with

2:28:15them on some other locations

2:28:16retrofitting some of their EDs and stuff

2:28:17like that to include those those type of

2:28:19things as part of what is currently

2:28:21there.

2:28:22Um, and then the last thought I had on

2:28:24that, um, again, it's just kind of a

2:28:26throwing it out there, but I assume that

2:28:29the threat is more for the hospital area

2:28:33than the medical office building area.

2:28:35Is that right?

2:28:37>> That right now that's actually what

2:28:39we're designing, right? But that with

2:28:40these two buildings being connected to

2:28:42each other. Um, but so so to answer your

2:28:45question directly, yes, right now what

2:28:46we are putting into place for safety and

2:28:48security is focused on hospitals. Um I

2:28:51do assume that that will probably expand

2:28:53here shortly sadly. Um but uh but right

2:28:56now safety and security parameters focus

2:28:58on hospitals.

2:28:58>> But we do we do have it on the MO so

2:29:00that somebody can't get wise and say oh

2:29:02look the MO I could just walk right in

2:29:04and go in.

2:29:05>> Yeah. Yeah. That's why I was looking at

2:29:06the floor plan and where it connects cuz

2:29:08the other thought I was toying with was

2:29:10okay maybe the give and take is that we

2:29:13have some more public permeable spaces

2:29:15on the mo have a more secure checkpoint

2:29:19at the transition. I know that

2:29:20technically you could go up and over,

2:29:22right? Or because it connects on

2:29:24multiple floors but um that's another

2:29:26idea that

2:29:27>> you're going through the same logic we

2:29:28went through but yeah that's absolutely

2:29:29right.

2:29:30>> Yeah. No, I mean and and at a certain

2:29:31point it gets to like okay like h how

2:29:34dedicated is a crazy person? And that's

2:29:36a hard question. Um but I I think that

2:29:40um in in the idea of throwing out other

2:29:42ideas that a possible one would be maybe

2:29:45the you know the outpatient pharmacy and

2:29:47the more hospital ccentric stuff is on

2:29:49that hospital side. Um and then there is

2:29:51that more and then move that kind of uh

2:29:53perimeter security point to the

2:29:55transition between the mo and the

2:29:57hospital and then the mob stuff can be

2:29:59more kind of um street facing

2:30:02interactive where people could go in and

2:30:03out. So um lots of just thoughts on

2:30:07things to check out but yeah

2:30:09>> certainly I would love to see like do do

2:30:11you know if that there there have been

2:30:12like specific studies that patient

2:30:14outcomes and safety improve when

2:30:17hospitals are secured in this way?

2:30:19>> Yeah. Okay.

2:30:20>> Yeah, happy to share those.

2:30:21>> I would I would love to see them in the

2:30:22in the

2:30:23>> also happy to share with you sadly our

2:30:24lived experience with this in the events

2:30:26that have happened within hospitals. So

2:30:28happy to share both of those.

2:30:30>> Okay. Um

2:30:32yeah, I think that's everything for me.

2:30:33But at least at least you didn't have to

2:30:35defend the helipad.

2:30:37[laughter]

2:30:38>> There there was two things that were

2:30:39brought up. I I I believe you were

2:30:41talking about EHS uh in terms of it. So

2:30:43Ephesus is one of the materials we're

2:30:45looking at. What we're trying to do is

2:30:46go at right now is prove that it meets

2:30:48the intent of a durable material. Uh and

2:30:51so that's what we're going through right

2:30:53now with the manufacturer to find that

2:30:54out. I will just tell the staff so that

2:30:57you know that some of the materials that

2:30:59are actually called out in it actually

2:31:01do fade and do not necessarily follow

2:31:03those same standards. So brick, metal

2:31:04panel, all that does fade after time. So

2:31:08we're just trying to work within the

2:31:09letter of the law and we've been asking

2:31:11staff about some of those definitions in

2:31:13terms of what that is. And our intention

2:31:14is to try to look at and figure out how

2:31:17to meet those to show that that ees that

2:31:19we're trying to put on the building

2:31:20meets it. Not necessarily trying to say,

2:31:22"Hey, we want to say it goes from it

2:31:24goes to zero." Um, and so we'll be

2:31:27working on that. Uh, as we say, um, the

2:31:29other thing is the uh is the rightway

2:31:31piece of it. Um, again trying to be a

2:31:34very conscious about having uh open

2:31:37space and especially that center open

2:31:39space that we talked about. you know,

2:31:40the drop off is very important in terms

2:31:42of it. And I don't think what anyone

2:31:44wants to see is kind of what's going to

2:31:45end up happening if if we if we don't go

2:31:47the route that's currently shown. You're

2:31:49going to have to push the buildings, as

2:31:50Eric said, 30 40 ft off of the the the

2:31:53public face. Then I'm going to have to

2:31:55put a bunch of streets in there to be

2:31:56able to get now people to have drop off.

2:31:58So, what I did is I took I've taken that

2:32:01that over. Right now, we have three

2:32:03acres of green space on here, which is

2:32:05over what the developer agreement asked

2:32:06for, and we're going to have to reduce

2:32:08that uh to be able to put drives in,

2:32:10which actually doesn't provide anything.

2:32:11So, we're going to end up having to push

2:32:12stuff back. So, there there is some

2:32:15conflicting pieces of it if you're

2:32:17trying to hit all the aspects. There's

2:32:18not no one perfect way to get this

2:32:20building to hit the DA, hit everything

2:32:23within code, all those rightways. So, we

2:32:26would like the opportunity, I know this

2:32:27necessarily it's not this board to have

2:32:30further conversations uh with the city

2:32:33about those because it is a very

2:32:34important piece to it to be able to have

2:32:36a drop off here to maintain the land as

2:32:39we say so that we don't have to go ahead

2:32:41and get rid of it and replace it with

2:32:42some type of drive.

2:32:44>> I actually have a question for staff.

2:32:45What what would the specific process

2:32:47that IH would have to go through in

2:32:49order to actually deal with that

2:32:50particular like the the right of way

2:32:52question because you told us it's not on

2:32:54us. Would they have to like basically

2:32:56directly appeal to the uh council?

2:33:00>> Um I don't have a great answer for that.

2:33:04It's city policy. Maybe um our attorney

2:33:06could jump in. But um

2:33:10I I'm not aware of a right of appeal.

2:33:13>> Yeah. In that circumstance.

2:33:14>> But and is it is it policy or is it

2:33:18code?

2:33:18>> It is policy.

2:33:19>> Policy.

2:33:21And the applicant will need to work with

2:33:23transportation and engineering to

2:33:25resolve their issues before any

2:33:27right-of-way encroachments can occur.

2:33:29It's not planning.

2:33:31>> It's not planning. Yeah,

2:33:32>> it is. But it is policy. So technically,

2:33:36>> so we we have submitted that within two

2:33:38weeks of submitting it, it was denied.

2:33:41>> Uh we just want the opportunity to be

2:33:43able to go sit because it isn't written

2:33:45in code. It's more of a gray area. And

2:33:48so we feel that this hospital and what

2:33:51this means for it is very important to

2:33:52what we're trying to do here.

2:33:53>> Yeah.

2:33:54>> Uh [clears throat] that changes

2:33:55everything. I mean, if you have to push

2:33:56these buildings off, having activation,

2:33:58having something like that, it's just

2:33:59push it even farther from the street.

2:34:01>> So that's what we're going to work with

2:34:03them to try to go.

2:34:04>> Look, I I don't I don't disagree with

2:34:06you, but I'm just saying that as a

2:34:07resident because it's not actually

2:34:10directly in in the face of this board.

2:34:12So I I wish you the best in your request

2:34:15to address that issue. Um I'll just jump

2:34:17in really fast. The so uh they provide

2:34:21examples of drop offs within the right

2:34:23ofway and some of the drop offs within

2:34:24the rightway are the reason that for the

2:34:26policy because it does take up so much

2:34:28public space. One of them being the

2:34:29hotel, the other hotel it is on uh

2:34:31private property and so uh you know code

2:34:34changes, policy changes usually based on

2:34:37poor examples and then you you refine

2:34:39it. Um and so that is the reason that

2:34:42the policy uh switched over the years.

2:34:44And also, you know, the policy also

2:34:46speaks to um smaller developments,

2:34:49right? We don't we don't allow people to

2:34:51put their stairs in the the ride of way

2:34:53anymore for town homes and we used to um

2:34:56even in this seven almost seven years

2:34:58I've been here. So, it has evolved. Um

2:35:00and the only other two things I will say

2:35:02uh the conditional use, you mentioned

2:35:04the uh taller fence. There's a provision

2:35:09that we can that I'm not worried about

2:35:11that. Oh, great.

2:35:12>> Um, yep. That can be uh addressed

2:35:15through the conditional use pro uh

2:35:17process. And then the design review

2:35:19process is meant to modify design

2:35:22standards, right? So, we know that it's

2:35:25difficult to make hit every single one.

2:35:29And so, that's why we have the process,

2:35:30but the design review process is meant

2:35:32to give modifications if the design

2:35:35meets the intent of the design.

2:35:38standard in the design review process.

2:35:40And so, um, I just, yeah, they they do

2:35:43have, uh, you know, room room to modify

2:35:47and with the durable building materials,

2:35:50it's not unreasonable to ask for a

2:35:51reduction. It's just the fact that it's

2:35:53the whole the whole

2:35:56>> Thank you. Did anyone else have

2:36:00>> No. Do you have any

2:36:02>> um questions?

2:36:03>> Just a quick couple of things. I was

2:36:05trying to like run down a checklist of

2:36:07everything that everyone else said so I

2:36:09wouldn't repeat myself. But um I I think

2:36:12we're going to keep running into and

2:36:15have this back and forth between the

2:36:17letter of the law and the spirit of the

2:36:18law because we're trying to

2:36:22design a hospital that interacts with

2:36:24the community instead of a community

2:36:26asset that happens to be a hospital. And

2:36:28that's not on me and I haven't read the

2:36:30full development agreement. Um, but I

2:36:32think that's going to be sort of the

2:36:34back and forth over and over again. And

2:36:36I've worked on a couple hospital sites

2:36:38in some inner cities before and

2:36:42even proposed like um urban garden and

2:36:45to solve a food desert problem, right?

2:36:47So you have these needs that you come to

2:36:48the hospital with about like what you're

2:36:50bringing to the community and what

2:36:52you're trying to do and they become

2:36:54amorphous and you're trying to figure it

2:36:55out and everything and you now you're

2:36:56trying to protect the community and I'm

2:36:58concerned that it might look like a

2:36:59correctional facility with a lot of

2:37:00security around right but you want to

2:37:02interact with the street and have these

2:37:03other pieces that you have to meet from

2:37:05a letter of the law um and so there are

2:37:07a lot of moving parts here um I don't

2:37:10know the process that we have is going

2:37:12to be iterative and it's going to rise

2:37:14to another level we actually even have

2:37:16appropriate feedback back to actually

2:37:17get somewhere. I think there a lot of

2:37:19things on the table that seem

2:37:21very restrictive um and binds the the

2:37:26development in a certain way. Um

2:37:29if we have flexibility from a planning

2:37:30standpoint, I'm I'm willing to hear it.

2:37:32I don't know. Um the easement piece is a

2:37:35completely different thing. Um, but in

2:37:37terms of development agreement and the

2:37:38food court and how it's shaped and

2:37:40eventual development over time, I think

2:37:42there are a lot of sticklers in there

2:37:43and looking at the footprint, there are

2:37:44a lot of ways to get things done and

2:37:46provide security and provide community

2:37:48access that might be bound too tightly,

2:37:52what were we looking at now? Um so if

2:37:55there is flexibility to go back not

2:37:56necessarily to the drawing board but

2:37:58actually expand and look at some things

2:38:00differently and kind of solve these

2:38:01problems and have you know you know

2:38:03you're trying like you're building a

2:38:05hospital but also thinking about retail

2:38:07vacancy right which is another

2:38:09complication on top of that. What kind

2:38:10what can you build inside a hospital

2:38:12that's not going to be vacant? You don't

2:38:13want you want coffee shops and

2:38:15restaurants but we're struggling with

2:38:16that around the rest of the block the

2:38:18rest of Straight Street trying to figure

2:38:19those pieces out, right? And so you're

2:38:20trying to build and plan around that.

2:38:23But those are needs there, right? And

2:38:24you're building something that's going

2:38:25to last hopefully another 150 years,

2:38:28right? And so you're trying to figure

2:38:29out what that looks like and you're

2:38:31shaping the community around it. And I

2:38:32think you should have some leeway in

2:38:33that. And I would support that if it

2:38:35happens to come to it, but I don't know.

2:38:37Um that's the best advice I can give now

2:38:39in this.

2:38:40>> So appreciate it. Y

2:38:41>> um for the Yes. And and I agree, right?

2:38:45The uh it's difficult to hit code and

2:38:50the DA. Um, if a DA is modified, it

2:38:53would need to go back to the the

2:38:54council, right? Um, and I

2:38:58and that's, you know, to totally up to

2:39:00them, but it was it was negotiated for

2:39:0218 months and the active ground floor

2:39:04use requirement in this zone is 90%. So,

2:39:06they dropped it significantly. They

2:39:08agreed on the uses. They everything

2:39:11everything was discussed. They agreed on

2:39:13that the direct access. And so um it

2:39:17might need to be renegotiated or because

2:39:19I I don't have flexibility on

2:39:21everything, right? Um but the design

2:39:23review process does um allow flexibility

2:39:26for the design standards in code.

2:39:31>> I watched a lot of those conversations

2:39:33so I know that there's what things were

2:39:35especially concerning and like it has

2:39:37gone on for a long time and there was a

2:39:39lot of talking on both sides and an

2:39:41agreement made. So when it comes to us

2:39:43um help us understand really clearly

2:39:45what things we can make exceptions for

2:39:48because they're part of the design

2:39:49review process and can we make

2:39:51exceptions for things in the development

2:39:54agreement. Maybe we can't at all. So

2:39:56there's no point in us even thinking

2:39:58about it. That conversation needs to

2:39:59change the DA if we can't make

2:40:01exceptions for it. That's my

2:40:03understanding. But maybe that's not

2:40:04true. And you can just explain that when

2:40:06it comes time to for us to say yes or

2:40:09no. I think.

2:40:12>> Sweet. All right. Um I think that is all

2:40:16we have for now. We don't need to table

2:40:18this because it's a work session, right?

2:40:19Okay. Well, great. Thank you guys very

2:40:20much for your time. We appreciate it.

2:40:22>> Thank you very much.

2:40:23>> Uh we'll go ahead and take a 10-minute

2:40:25break.

2:40:27Back at 8:15.

2:40:29So,

2:40:35>> [music]

2:40:37>> Do you

2:40:42[music]

2:40:48[music]

2:40:56>> [music]

2:41:12[music]

2:41:18>> Heat.

2:41:22>> [music]

2:41:29[music]

2:41:32>> Yeah.

2:41:34Heat.

2:41:36[music]

2:41:41>> [music]

2:41:47[music]

2:41:55[music]

2:41:57>> Heat. Heat.

2:42:04Heat. Heat. N. [music]

2:42:26>> [music]

2:42:34[music]

2:42:39[music]

2:42:40>> Hey,

2:42:43hey, hey.

2:42:54>> [music]

2:42:57>> Heat. Heat.

2:43:01[music]

2:43:17Are you serious?

2:43:26[music]

2:43:27Heat.

2:43:39Heat.

2:43:48[music]

2:44:32>> [music]

2:44:53[music]

2:45:14>> Heat. Heat.

2:45:16[music]

2:45:31[music]

2:45:43>> [music]

2:46:08[music]

2:46:15[music]

2:46:21[music]

2:46:28[music]

2:46:34>> Heat. Hey, Heat. Heat. Heat. N.

2:46:55Heat.

2:47:06[music]

2:47:12Hey, Heat. [music]

2:47:19>> [music]

2:47:32[music]

2:47:34>> Heat. Heat.

2:47:41Heat. Heat.

2:48:08>> [music]

2:48:18>> Heat. Heat.

2:48:31>> [music]

2:48:41>> H

2:48:56How do you feel about helicopters?

2:49:02>> They sound fun.

2:49:11It's a lot better where they have it

2:49:12proposed. I used to live in Murray and

2:49:15you just always hear it.

2:49:18It's a constant.

2:49:32>> Are we ready?

2:49:33>> Yep.

2:49:33>> Cool. Great. All right.

2:49:37After that lengthy discussion, we're

2:49:39going to dive into some really uh deep

2:49:41and complex and esoteric uh zoning

2:49:44issues. So, get ready. This is some dry.

2:49:48It's fun. It's going to be a great

2:49:50discussion. So, we're we're working on

2:49:52an update to the plan development

2:49:54process and in particular, we're working

2:49:56to add what's called community benefits.

2:49:59Oh, and by the way, I'm Aaron Barlo,

2:50:01senior planner.

2:50:04So, just a brief outline of what this

2:50:06will look like for you. Um, I'll go over

2:50:09the background of the project and what

2:50:11the goals are specifically. Um, then

2:50:14just a summary of what the proposal is.

2:50:16Then I'll give some time. We can have

2:50:18some clarifying questions. You if you

2:50:20don't understand a concept I've

2:50:22presented, we can go over it and you

2:50:25figure it out together. And then I've

2:50:27got some policy questions and then we

2:50:28can dive into additional discussion

2:50:30which could be your your thoughts,

2:50:32concerns, ideas you might have about

2:50:34community benefits, things like that.

2:50:37So I kind of covered this in the report,

2:50:39but let's just cover it briefly. Uh you

2:50:42know what a plan development is. You get

2:50:43those all the time. It's a request to

2:50:46modify zoning regulations uh and

2:50:49subdivision regulations provided that

2:50:51it's a better product and you get some

2:50:53sort of objective fulfilled by the

2:50:56project. Um you know we want something

2:50:59that's creative that's innovative that

2:51:01creates a better project than what could

2:51:04just be done by um you know strictly

2:51:06applying the zoning regulations. Um, one

2:51:09thing to make make clear that the

2:51:11community doesn't always understand

2:51:12about a plan development is that denying

2:51:15a plan development does not deny

2:51:17development of the site. Uh, I had an

2:51:20example uh Allen Park by Allen Park.

2:51:23There's a fiveplex. There's five town

2:51:25homes right there and this commission

2:51:27denied that back in 2022 I think and

2:51:32five town homes still got built. They

2:51:34just didn't have the narrower lots. They

2:51:36were subdivided as condominiums. They

2:51:38had lower quality materials. It was, you

2:51:41know, wasn't really um a productive

2:51:44move. And the community thought they had

2:51:46won something, but essentially the

2:51:48property rights remained.

2:51:50>> No roof decks,

2:51:52>> huh?

2:51:53>> They don't have roof decks.

2:51:54>> Yeah. No roof decks.

2:51:55>> Yeah. And they might have.

2:51:57>> I guess that's the one one thing that

2:51:58they they want. Uh so why make these

2:52:02changes now? Um, as you've been aware,

2:52:06we've been updating a lot of plans in

2:52:08the in the city, whether that's the

2:52:10neighborhood plans with Northwest, um,

2:52:13Capitol Hill avenues, and now Central

2:52:15Community. Uh, transportation plan was

2:52:17recently updated. They're working on

2:52:18updating the active transportation plan.

2:52:21Uh, we had some water updates to our

2:52:24general plan. And general plan means all

2:52:27of the plan documents. This is plan Salt

2:52:30Lake's like the main one. Then you have

2:52:32like general subject matter ones like

2:52:34transportation, housing, uh street

2:52:37lights, things like that. And then

2:52:39you've got neighborhood ones. You might

2:52:41under transportation, you might have

2:52:42more specific types of transportation,

2:52:44transit, active transportation, things

2:52:46like that. And a lot of those have been

2:52:48updated over the last 5 10 years. Uh

2:52:52then also streamlining the process for

2:52:54smallcale projects has been a goal uh

2:52:56for this the division and and other and

2:52:59this administration. Basically we've had

2:53:01a lot of applicants come through with uh

2:53:03you know really small scale requests and

2:53:05they end up having to go through a very

2:53:06similar process as the large scale

2:53:08developer uh someone who is uh you know

2:53:11has lots of money and resources to be

2:53:13able to make it through the process.

2:53:14It's the same for someone who just wants

2:53:16a, you know, maybe a little more unique

2:53:18design for the their backyard to add a a

2:53:22house for their, I don't know,

2:53:23son-in-law or something. I don't know

2:53:25how that works. Um, and then also we've

2:53:27had some new incentives and other

2:53:29initiatives uh brought into the zoning

2:53:31regulations like zoning incentives and

2:53:33we want to be able to clarify that

2:53:35relationship between the two. Uh, and

2:53:37then in the zoning amendment process,

2:53:40there is that displacement and loss of

2:53:42existing housing. We want to bring that

2:53:44into the plan development process.

2:53:45Currently, if housing is demolished

2:53:48through a plan development, there's no

2:53:50requirement to replace that to help with

2:53:53displaced tenants, uh, replace units

2:53:55that were demolished.

2:53:57We want to include that in this process.

2:53:59And then in the end encourage those

2:54:01creative solutions that promote higher

2:54:02quality development.

2:54:05So, what exactly is this proposal? We'll

2:54:07go over the specific details here. Um

2:54:09kind of a broad view is there's two

2:54:11tiers of review under this proposal.

2:54:13Currently there is an administrative

2:54:14plan development available only for

2:54:16zoning incentives. This would be sort of

2:54:18expanded into what's called a minor plan

2:54:20development for staff level review.

2:54:22These are smallcale projects. Uh major

2:54:24plan development would be for those PC

2:54:26level reviews where that's much larger.

2:54:28There's a community benefit involved.

2:54:30There's displacement. Uh a number of

2:54:32things that might trigger that. um for

2:54:35major plan developments, they would need

2:54:37a proportional community benefit. Uh if

2:54:40you're asking for more in your project,

2:54:42whether that's greater modifications,

2:54:44you know, the number or the extent of

2:54:46the changes to the zoning code or the

2:54:48and then the size of your project needs

2:54:50to be related to the size of your

2:54:52community benefit. So, a smaller scale

2:54:54project's going to have much fewer

2:54:56things required of them. Something much

2:54:57larger, we're going to ask a lot more.

2:55:00And then we're also creating what's

2:55:01called a transfer of building height

2:55:02process to encourage that creativity and

2:55:05sort of encourage additional um you know

2:55:09approaches to these community benefits

2:55:12that we want to have in the in the city

2:55:14and then tenant protection and

2:55:16demolished housing replacement.

2:55:18Uh large overview or you know high high

2:55:22level overview of the difference between

2:55:24the two. Uh and I'll cover these more in

2:55:26detail. So, minor plan developments uh

2:55:28for zoning incentives, they will remain

2:55:30as a 12-day noticing process. That's the

2:55:33current um requirement. Don't want to

2:55:36change that. Their zoning incentives,

2:55:37they're meeting a certain set of

2:55:39requirements. Want to keep it that way.

2:55:41But for all other minor plan

2:55:43developments, they would follow a

2:55:45process very similar to what's already

2:55:46required for plan developments minus the

2:55:48public hearing. So, there'll be a 45day

2:55:51public notice to property owners and

2:55:53residents within 300 ft. uh a posting on

2:55:56the sign and a letter to the community

2:55:58council or if there's multiple community

2:56:00councils, letter to all of those and

2:56:02then a posting online if the community

2:56:04council doesn't want us to come and

2:56:07speak to them. And then for major plan

2:56:09developments, the process is the same.

2:56:11Standards of review, they both have to

2:56:12follow them. There's some modifications

2:56:14to that we can talk about. Community

2:56:15benefits are not required for minor plan

2:56:17developments. Transfer building heights

2:56:19only available to major plan

2:56:20developments. And anything that

2:56:22displaces residents or uh demolishes

2:56:25existing housing has to go through a

2:56:26major plan development process.

2:56:29So minor plan developments these are uh

2:56:33not just residential projects. I have

2:56:35taken this from a prior presentation. So

2:56:37it's act we've updated the proposal

2:56:39based on feedback and I have a a

2:56:41question for you later but projects

2:56:43larger than 10,000 square feet in area

2:56:45whether you could modify multiple

2:56:48principal buildings on a lot lots

2:56:49without street frontage that's typically

2:56:51sideways row houses. Um the minimum lot

2:56:54width as you know a lot of our districts

2:56:56a lot of our districts have wider lot

2:56:58width minimums than what is normal.

2:57:01We're working to fix that in many of our

2:57:03districts, but some still have that uh

2:57:05building coverage requirements in the

2:57:07case if you want to preserve a building

2:57:10on a site, but you also want to build,

2:57:12you know, more units and you're allowed

2:57:14to um encouraging preservation of the

2:57:17existing building so you can expand on

2:57:19that site. Um, for things like

2:57:21industrial and government property,

2:57:23industrial properties often have these

2:57:25warehouses with tenants that are

2:57:27changing walls all the time. And they

2:57:29often don't just want to subdivide in a

2:57:32condominium type space. They're actually

2:57:33doing a the ground up and down to sky

2:57:37and ground. And it gets really confusing

2:57:40to divide that every every time with

2:57:44some sort of weird magic where there's

2:57:46like a a two foot wide strip of land

2:57:48going along one property line so they

2:57:50can make that happen. Um then property,

2:57:53you know, projects with zoning

2:57:55incentives and then projects constructed

2:57:57by utility easements. There have been

2:57:59cases where a property might have a 20

2:58:01foot um power line easement in the front

2:58:04and then a minimum setback of eight feet

2:58:06and that they forces them to go into a

2:58:09plan development process which really

2:58:10isn't fair. We want to make that

2:58:12administrative so that they have an

2:58:14easier process to kind of take on the

2:58:16conditions that are on the site.

2:58:20Just an example of a project and

2:58:22actually Amanda worked on this one many

2:58:24years ago when she was uh newer in the

2:58:26division. This is Jefferson Court in the

2:58:28Central 9inth neighborhood. You can see

2:58:30they preserved a house on the right

2:58:33side, added a new house on the left, and

2:58:35then a bunch uh town homes in the back.

2:58:38Um, this only needed one modification.

2:58:41It was a rear yard setback modification

2:58:44for that zoning district. And it had to

2:58:46go through the full process, come to

2:58:48you, well, not you specifically,

2:58:52um, but to this body and then had to

2:58:54vote on it. Had to give out notice. It

2:58:56was, you know, it's a lot longer and

2:58:58ardous process than what probably is

2:59:00necessary for kind of a simple project

2:59:03that just needed a little modification

2:59:05and maybe some higher level review, but

2:59:08not necessarily the the full rigma role

2:59:10of a public hearing.

2:59:13Uh, minor plan developments would have,

2:59:15like I said, public notices, 12 days for

2:59:16incentives, and then others are a 45day

2:59:19input, 14-day community council notice,

2:59:22and property posting. And this was

2:59:23changed based on public feedback. We

2:59:25initially had 12 days for both, but

2:59:27after speaking with community councils,

2:59:29there was a real concern about not

2:59:31having enough time to provide feedback

2:59:33and comments on these projects. So, we

2:59:35expanded that um to include minor plan

2:59:39developments in the cases that are not

2:59:40incentives.

2:59:43Okay. So, minor plan developments would

2:59:44be forwarded to the planning commission

2:59:46in a number of instances. Um, if there's

2:59:48some related application like a reszone,

2:59:50a design review, something that's

2:59:52associated, they just be tacked on to

2:59:55that plan planning commission review,

2:59:57we'll add it there and it's it'll be

3:00:00just quicker to do them together. Um, if

3:00:03there's more than three modifications

3:00:05requested under those original where

3:00:06it's lots of street frontage, buildings,

3:00:09multiple buildings on a lot, um,

3:00:12building coverage and lot width. If more

3:00:14than three of those are requested, then

3:00:16we'd forward it to the planning

3:00:17commission. If we receive consistent

3:00:19public comments that specifically call

3:00:21out compatibility or neighborhood

3:00:23character issues that warrant further

3:00:25review, meaning planning staff agrees,

3:00:28you know, this is not something that is

3:00:31good for staff to approve and needs, you

3:00:33know, a broader conversation and kind of

3:00:35disperse the liability on that. um we

3:00:40will pass it on to the planning

3:00:41commission and then issues and then um

3:00:44instances where the applicant doesn't

3:00:46agree to conditions we've play we

3:00:48recommend for approval of the project.

3:00:51>> Does that does that one last one mean

3:00:53that you won't decline it? You'll say if

3:00:55you don't like our answer then you can

3:00:58ask planning commission and then we can

3:01:00approve it or decline it.

3:01:01>> It's an option for them. Obviously, if

3:01:03they're like, "We don't want to go to

3:01:04the planning commission," we'll we'll

3:01:06deny it. But it's it's a process

3:01:08available.

3:01:09>> Okay.

3:01:11>> And do once once these steps go into

3:01:15place, that doesn't kick in all of the

3:01:18requirements of major plan developments,

3:01:20right? It just forwards it to us.

3:01:22>> Yes.

3:01:22>> Okay.

3:01:23>> Yeah. No, no community benefit required.

3:01:25No tenant displace Well, tenant

3:01:27displacement would push it anyway, but

3:01:29>> cool.

3:01:31>> All right. Major plan developments.

3:01:33These are anything that doesn't qualify

3:01:34for that minor review. It's most other

3:01:36plan developments. Anything displaces

3:01:38residents and then things that utilize

3:01:40the transfer building height that I'll

3:01:42talk about in a sec. The first piece

3:01:44though is these community benefits and

3:01:46they'd be required for all major plan

3:01:47development projects. They would replace

3:01:49the objectives that are in the purpose

3:01:52statements of a plan development in the

3:01:54current code and instead we put it, you

3:01:56know, farther back and have more

3:01:58specific details for each one. Um, so

3:02:01they're able to expand and we've kind of

3:02:04set it up. You can add things as, you

3:02:06know, new initiatives come in or one of

3:02:08you has an idea of a a community benefit

3:02:11you'd like to see on projects, we could

3:02:13take that on and see if it'll fit. Um,

3:02:16these community benefits, they're tied

3:02:18to the scale and extent of the

3:02:20modifications and the size of the

3:02:21project. Um, there are more options, but

3:02:24they are stricter standards. Each

3:02:25community benefit has a set of

3:02:27conditions that we measure the the

3:02:30weight uh the proportionality so to say

3:02:33like if it's affordable housing, it's

3:02:34the number of units, the affordability

3:02:37of those units and the time that those

3:02:39units are affordable. We look into all

3:02:41of those and provide an analysis to you

3:02:44um and a recommendation that you can

3:02:45work off of. And then there there

3:02:48obviously more options and they they

3:02:50would be more involved. We don't require

3:02:53a uh

3:02:55development agreement. Well, a

3:02:56restrictive covenant with these in

3:02:59instances where it counts, like

3:03:00affordable housing, we need that. Um or

3:03:03if they're preserving a historic

3:03:05building that's not already listed, we

3:03:06would require something recorded on the

3:03:08property that saves that property in

3:03:11perpetuity. So, some examples of these

3:03:14benefits is affordable, accessible, that

3:03:17means like ADA or visitable buildings or

3:03:19multi-bedroom housing. Multi-bed as

3:03:22defined in this proposal is a

3:03:24three-bedroom, 2 and 1 half bath um open

3:03:27space. Any sort of active open space or

3:03:30natural open space or plazas. There is a

3:03:33requirement that it has to be

3:03:35appropriate for the site. So, we're not

3:03:37getting urban plazas in the middle of

3:03:39like uh East Liberty or something. And

3:03:41we want these in sight appropriate open

3:03:44spaces projects that have undergone site

3:03:47remediation and have been signed off by

3:03:50the department of environmental quality

3:03:51by the state and we want to see those

3:03:54sites get redeveloped and provide some

3:03:56options and flexibility to those sites.

3:03:58Um expansion of infrastructure beyond

3:04:00the minimum requirements. This would be

3:04:02you know not just the site often there's

3:04:05requirements to expand water or sewer

3:04:08beyond what's required. This would be

3:04:11even further to either support nearby

3:04:14properties that may have bad water

3:04:16pressure or bad sewer or, you know,

3:04:18allowing further

3:04:21uh use farther down the line.

3:04:25Uh community facilities. This is kind of

3:04:26a catch-all for those kind of

3:04:29neighborhood uh specific nonprofit type

3:04:32places that support the the community.

3:04:35uh daycarees, clinics, food pantries. Um

3:04:39it could be meeting space for community

3:04:41councils. Again, the size of it sort of

3:04:44com uh commensurate to the uh size of

3:04:47the request. Essentially, preservation

3:04:50of historic buildings um specifically

3:04:52those that are not already preserved. Um

3:04:55those on a national register may may

3:04:58qualify, but um the national and local

3:05:01landmarks qualify, but anything else, no

3:05:04districts um that has to be something

3:05:06that's new and not already saved. Uh

3:05:11transportation facilities, this is uh

3:05:13roads, bike paths, sidewalks, transit

3:05:15spaces. Uh you know, we we look at that

3:05:18and how it benefits the community. We're

3:05:20not if someone comes in and expands the

3:05:22width of a road more than necessary into

3:05:25their property, we're not going to

3:05:26really like that. But that's not in line

3:05:30with city goals. But if it's expanding

3:05:32the sidewalk so it's ADA compliant,

3:05:34that's that's preferable. And then there

3:05:37is the option for other benefits, but

3:05:39they need to align with the specific

3:05:41policy or goal outlined in any of the

3:05:43pieces of the general plan. So that

3:05:45includes the neighborhood plans, all the

3:05:46stuff I talked about earlier.

3:05:50So, this is an example of a project that

3:05:52had community benefits that really sort

3:05:54of fit this proposal. If you're aware of

3:05:57the Spark Apartments, some of you may

3:05:59have looked at that. This is a um by the

3:06:01power station on North Temple across the

3:06:04street from the uh Rocky Mountain Power

3:06:06site. And they had a daycare as part of

3:06:10this proposal u managed by Neighborhood

3:06:12House and also affordable housing on the

3:06:14site. And that daycare was for more than

3:06:17just the residents of that site. It was

3:06:18more of a neighborhood available site.

3:06:21And it basically filled up the the

3:06:24minute it opened. And these are the

3:06:26things we want to see in these new plan

3:06:28developments are these facilities that

3:06:30support the surrounding areas. So

3:06:32they're not just as uh was it Cindy

3:06:35Cromer that called them just like

3:06:37standalone cities where they never

3:06:39really interact with the world outside

3:06:41of them. We want these developments to

3:06:43help those that are already in place

3:06:46around the community.

3:06:48So transfer of building height this is

3:06:51can be it's a little bit confusing

3:06:53concept but so this is not um the

3:06:57transfer of development rights like when

3:06:58you think about Grand Central Station

3:07:00when they sold the extra height on top

3:07:03of their building to developer across

3:07:06town and they used it on a different

3:07:07property. This would all be only within

3:07:11this planned development site, which

3:07:12could be one or more parcels, but they'd

3:07:15need to be contiguous. It can't cross

3:07:17any public street or uh public alley.

3:07:21It's got to be that same site. And it

3:07:23would be moving building height that's

3:07:24not used, whether that's an existing

3:07:26building, a proposed building, or a

3:07:29proposed community benefit open space

3:07:32type area. They could take that space

3:07:35and put it on top of another building to

3:07:37exceed the maximum height of the

3:07:39district by half that district's height.

3:07:42And that includes design review height,

3:07:43but they'd have to also uh comply with

3:07:46the design review requirements. So, you

3:07:48know, like in MU1, they allow up to 120

3:07:51ft. You'd add an additional have to go

3:07:54through design review, meet those

3:07:55standards, and you could have up to 60

3:07:58more feet on that site. And essentially

3:08:01the outcome is relatively equivalent to

3:08:04what could be allowed through the

3:08:05affordable housing incentives or the

3:08:07building preservation incentives. This

3:08:09is just another way to get there. Um you

3:08:13know we kind of have all these different

3:08:16what do you call them? Processes we've

3:08:17introduced into the zoning regulations.

3:08:19The idea here is you know there's

3:08:21different processes for different

3:08:23projects and not everything's going to

3:08:25fit a single project. everyone has sort

3:08:28of a pathway or a lever they can pull to

3:08:30see if it fits with their project. You

3:08:33know, affordable housing incentives

3:08:35might work for one person, but they

3:08:36won't work for someone else who might

3:08:38prefer to go through this process or

3:08:40someone might want to use the expanding

3:08:42housing options process for their site.

3:08:44It just depends. Um, so some other

3:08:48things with this proposal, it's only

3:08:50permitted within specific zoning

3:08:51districts. It's downtown, our commercial

3:08:53districts, the gateway area, public

3:08:55lands 2, that's the um Washington Square

3:08:58and Library Square and urban

3:09:00institutional is most of the LEAS church

3:09:02properties uh north of here and it would

3:09:06not be allowed within the overlay, the

3:09:08historic overlay. They kind of already

3:09:10have that process available to them

3:09:12through the new construction application

3:09:14process.

3:09:15>> Sorry. So, just to clarify something

3:09:17really quick. Um, so that's the transfer

3:09:20of development rights is only permitted

3:09:22in those districts, not all major

3:09:25planned developments.

3:09:26>> Transfer building height.

3:09:28>> Yeah. Sorry. Yeah. Transfer of building

3:09:29height. Yeah. Okay.

3:09:31>> Yes. Any project in these districts

3:09:32would could qualify for this.

3:09:34>> But there are presumably other major

3:09:36plan development types that are not in

3:09:39those districts.

3:09:40>> Yeah. If an RMF75

3:09:43for some reason or RMF45, you want to go

3:09:45through major plan developments, they

3:09:46could. But this would not be an option

3:09:48to them because those districts tend to

3:09:51be closer to single family, two family,

3:09:55lower density uh residential districts

3:09:57want to avoid that for the most part.

3:09:59>> Um the thing that I've never fully

3:10:02understood like what's the benefit of

3:10:04putting PL2 in here, right? Like PL2 is

3:10:07going to always be land that's

3:10:08controlled by the city which ultimately

3:10:10controls its what it can and can't

3:10:13develop. What like what what is a

3:10:16scenario where this would actually be

3:10:18useful for a PL2

3:10:20um zone district?

3:10:22>> If the mayor has big plans for the

3:10:24Leonardo site, it would be an easier

3:10:27process for them or could reszone a city

3:10:31property to PL2. Um have to go through

3:10:35the whole process and get city council

3:10:37approval for some other site in the

3:10:39city. I doubt that would happen, but

3:10:41that's another option for those sites.

3:10:43And it's an urban district, sort of the

3:10:45urban public lands district. That was

3:10:48our our goal. It doesn't abut any single

3:10:50family zones.

3:10:52>> Makes sense. Thank you.

3:10:56>> Let's see. So, this is an illustration

3:10:57of what that looks like. So, this area

3:11:00that's hatched on the left, um, that's

3:11:03unused development or in some cases that

3:11:06could be where they put affordable

3:11:07housing on this building and you take

3:11:10that area that was built here or not

3:11:13built and move it and place it on top of

3:11:15this other building that would allow

3:11:16additional height. Um, this allows for,

3:11:19you know, maybe you can clear out a

3:11:21larger area for open space. You could

3:11:23have a larger area looking like hidden

3:11:25hollow on a property with a much taller

3:11:27building next to it versus something

3:11:28that's more spread out. You also run

3:11:31into issues with,

3:11:33you know, five over one, the wood over

3:11:35podium construction buildings that

3:11:38there's sort of a limitation in the

3:11:40amount of height there. And there the

3:11:42quality is not quite the same as a full

3:11:44concrete and steel construction. If

3:11:46you're able to kind of cross that

3:11:47threshold into 70 80 feet um and it and

3:11:51include some affordable housing, you

3:11:53have a higher quality building, you have

3:11:55affordable housing um and sort of a and

3:11:58more housing in general all on one site.

3:12:01>> Just a quick question on this. So is it

3:12:04is there a cap on how much can be

3:12:06transferred to the second building?

3:12:07>> Yeah, it would be half of the district's

3:12:10height.

3:12:10>> Thank you. So, um, like here on the top

3:12:13of that illustration says 50% of base

3:12:15heights.

3:12:16>> Yeah, I was just asking because I

3:12:17thought that might have been just used

3:12:18as an example, you know, like could it

3:12:20have been 10% then 90% going to the

3:12:22second building

3:12:23>> for districts that don't have a maximum

3:12:25height like the D1 you discussed today.

3:12:27If it's, let's say it's a split zoning

3:12:29property where there's some D1 and then

3:12:31maybe a MU11 property, only 75 ft could

3:12:35be transferred from a D1 property from

3:12:38any given area.

3:12:41is is does this transfer also work? What

3:12:44if you buy a property that has building

3:12:46one and building two already exist? Is

3:12:47it only for new construction or could

3:12:49you just say, "Oh, well, now we want to

3:12:51make building two taller

3:12:53>> you could if building one already

3:12:55existed. It was already either it's

3:12:57historic or it's something that you want

3:12:58to have on the site, but you also want

3:13:00to build something taller. um that is an

3:13:03option provided there is the

3:13:06proportional community benefit included

3:13:08with the project

3:13:10>> and staff would provide that analysis

3:13:11saying you know they've asked for a

3:13:13transfer building height they've added

3:13:14this much height to a building that's an

3:13:16increase in this much property rights

3:13:18and we're expecting this much more from

3:13:20them on that community benefit side

3:13:22whether that's affordable housing the

3:13:24open space you know we're looking at the

3:13:26quality of the the community benefit as

3:13:28well as the the extent of that that

3:13:31benefit.

3:13:32>> Does that tie those two buildings

3:13:34together forever? Like could you split

3:13:36the lot and then building one's on its

3:13:38own lot, building two's on its own?

3:13:39>> So the restrictive covenant is required

3:13:42with these transfer of building heights.

3:13:44Uh so it would be very difficult um to

3:13:48split those off. It's kind of held there

3:13:50in perpetuity unless they come back with

3:13:52a new plan development. They raise one

3:13:55of the buildings, you know, in some way

3:13:57eliminate that transfer of building

3:13:59height and start over. So we' we'd have

3:14:02some say in the subdividing of the

3:14:05property.

3:14:07>> Um I have more questions but I want to

3:14:09make sure do you are you comfortable

3:14:10with us just open forming? Okay. Um so

3:14:16um so my question is about massing. So,

3:14:20like if you have like one building that

3:14:23um is

3:14:25um

3:14:276,000 square ft and then another

3:14:30building that is like 40,000 square ft.

3:14:34I mean, that's unrealistic, but um could

3:14:36that 6,000 square ft building transfer

3:14:39its development rights

3:14:43development height to that larger mass

3:14:46building, therefore getting more total

3:14:49massing because like in this scenario,

3:14:52building one and two, you're getting a

3:14:54similar amount of massing.

3:14:56>> Um but like

3:14:58>> does does like scale of the building is

3:15:02that being considered? Yeah, envelope is

3:15:04also considered in this. It's we say

3:15:06height, but it's really bulk. Um,

3:15:09>> if you have a a building with a smaller

3:15:12envelope and you're transferring height,

3:15:14if you move that to a building with a

3:15:18larger envelope, um, you know, it would

3:15:22spread out there. Kind of you're moving

3:15:24cubes around.

3:15:25>> Um, are you know, what is it the what

3:15:29babies don't look at or notice until

3:15:31they're 2, three years old. I am not a

3:15:33child care expert. [laughter] It goes in

3:15:35the square hole.

3:15:37>> Yes.

3:15:38>> Okay. That that makes sense though.

3:15:39>> Preservation of mass or whatever. Yeah.

3:15:41So it needs to be equivalent in that

3:15:44bulk.

3:15:45>> Okay. So the the area above the ground

3:15:47sort of you can move squares from one

3:15:50place to another if you want to look at

3:15:53it that way. Okay.

3:15:56So here extra heights limited to 50% of

3:15:58base zoning height 75 in a district

3:16:00without maximum. There are additional

3:16:02design standards I'll go over. You can't

3:16:04transfer across public streets or alleys

3:16:06and a restrictive covenant is required.

3:16:09So the the one the first uh kind of

3:16:12change in the design requirements for

3:16:14these things is a 45 ft stepback from

3:16:18any district with a max height of 45 ft

3:16:21or lower. So at 30, it's kind of similar

3:16:24to what's already in place with design

3:16:26standards, but a much longer step back.

3:16:28I keep punching this guy. Um

3:16:32so at 30 feet or wherever when that

3:16:35building breaks at 30 feet it could be

3:16:37just below um then you have a 45 foot

3:16:40step back before continuing

3:16:43and that's step back from the step back

3:16:46of the property. So you may have a 10-ft

3:16:48step back as well and then the 45 ft

3:16:51step back

3:16:53>> and that's when there's a zone change.

3:16:55>> Yeah. I mean it's adjacent to a single

3:16:57family. This is really would be most

3:16:59common along State Street where we have

3:17:01a lot of MU6

3:17:03uh 56 and 8 right up against RMF30 and

3:17:07RMF 35 and R1.

3:17:10Those areas that whenever we've had uh

3:17:13plan developments there, we've really

3:17:14put in a heavy stepback requirement

3:17:16there. There's a couple projects you've

3:17:18probably seen there that have um some

3:17:21development agreements in place for

3:17:23those properties.

3:17:25The other is also very similar to a

3:17:27design standard that's already required

3:17:29for buildings over 80 feet. A 10-ft step

3:17:31back at 80 feet or high 85 ft. Um it can

3:17:35be anywhere in the height of the

3:17:38building. It just have anything higher

3:17:39than 85 ft must have a a 10ft step back.

3:17:43And this is really to address or below

3:17:4785 ft. You can't have a step back higher

3:17:49than 85 ft. Let me clarify. And this is

3:17:51really to address snow um that might

3:17:54come off the side of the building. Avoid

3:17:55really fast moving uh stuff coming off

3:17:59the side of the building. If it's

3:18:00debris, they you have a different

3:18:01problem, but snow, you know, get

3:18:03freezing on the side and coming off the

3:18:05edge. We want to avoid that.

3:18:07>> The old Eckles problem.

3:18:08>> Yeah, exactly.

3:18:11Um major plan developments have the unit

3:18:13replacement requirement. Any demolished

3:18:15unit must be replaced and they must have

3:18:17an equivalent number of bedrooms and

3:18:18bathrooms as that original as that

3:18:21building that was demolished. So you

3:18:22can't replace a five bedroomedroom with

3:18:23a studio. If it's a five bed, two bath,

3:18:26you got to put in a five bed, two bath.

3:18:28And that's not currently required. We

3:18:30want that to be included in any of these

3:18:32projects. And then tennis displacement.

3:18:34This is identical to the requirements

3:18:36for a

3:18:37>> sorry replacement's not required so far

3:18:40or just replacement of the same size is

3:18:42not

3:18:42>> required. There is no um for plan

3:18:44developments there is no tenant

3:18:46>> oh okay

3:18:47>> unit replacement or tenant displacement

3:18:49requirements it's only for the reszones.

3:18:52>> Thanks.

3:18:53>> Uh then tenants tenant displacement is

3:18:55the same as the reszone where there's

3:18:57moving expenses. Um you have to provide

3:19:00payment assistance for the difference in

3:19:02the rent of their new new place up to

3:19:05$7,200. That's not the full rent. just

3:19:08if you got 1,800 and you move to 22, you

3:19:11make that $400 difference a month. Uh

3:19:14fee assistance, cuz we know how

3:19:15expensive it can get to apply for

3:19:17apartments. And then they if the tenant

3:19:20agrees, if it's something they want to

3:19:22do, you can also relocate them to a

3:19:24property that applicant already owns if

3:19:27all parties are amenable. You can't just

3:19:29force them like the government did back

3:19:31in the day.

3:19:33Uh, so from this here, just any

3:19:36clarifying questions? I think we kind of

3:19:38went over that as we were as we went

3:19:40along, but anything specific?

3:19:42>> Yeah, I've got a couple of things. Um,

3:19:45one was just I don't know if it's a typo

3:19:49or I'm not understanding the phrasing,

3:19:50but line

3:19:53264 in the draft text. Um, it says

3:19:56forcending billing buildings. I don't

3:19:59know what ascending building is.

3:20:01>> Gotcha. Uh sending building is a prop is

3:20:05the building that's sending that height

3:20:07to a receiving building. We can add

3:20:10those definitions.

3:20:11>> Oh, okay. Gotcha. Okay.

3:20:12>> Sending and a receiving building or

3:20:13sending location, receiving location.

3:20:15>> Gotcha. Okay. Um

3:20:20so

3:20:23I understand what the major um plan

3:20:27development stuff is kind of weighed

3:20:30with like the the conditions we use

3:20:33against that. So if a minor one though

3:20:36does come to us, what are we like what

3:20:41standard are we holding it against? you

3:20:44would hold up to the minor plan

3:20:45development standards that are outlined

3:20:47in that standard section. So there

3:20:50wouldn't be the community benefit

3:20:52requirement. There wouldn't be the

3:20:53proportionality. If I go to the draft

3:20:57starting on page

3:21:03um page 20 page 20 or page page yeah

3:21:072010 of the draft um you for example you

3:21:11have a minor plan development

3:21:14um purpose statement it would follow

3:21:16that standard b is the major plan

3:21:19development purpose statement it would

3:21:21not follow that standard because it's

3:21:22not a major plan development

3:21:24Um and then the justification for

3:21:26required modifications.

3:21:28Um anything that's doesn't explicitly

3:21:31say major plan development would be also

3:21:34reviewed

3:21:36as well.

3:21:37>> It's not that everything below B is for

3:21:41B. It's that it's for either A or B.

3:21:43>> Okay. Gotcha.

3:21:44um

3:21:48for the transfer of building heights. Um

3:21:53there's a section

3:21:57uh

3:21:59where was it?

3:22:02One second.

3:22:05Starts on page Oh, great. I keep losing

3:22:08my spot.

3:22:11Page 18, I think.

3:22:21Yeah, page 17's the start.

3:22:23>> Okay. Um,

3:22:26let's see.

3:22:31Um,

3:22:34so when you were saying, um, so it's to

3:22:39the maximum allowed height for the zone.

3:22:40So that does include with the design

3:22:43review. Okay.

3:22:45>> Yes. Um

3:22:46>> Okay. In the way it's written, a design

3:22:49review application would be required if

3:22:51they're going to that design review

3:22:53height. Um if they're not using a design

3:22:56designer review application, they still

3:22:58we would still review it according to

3:23:00the design review standards because

3:23:02there's additional height being given to

3:23:04that building. We want to make sure that

3:23:06it's still following sort of an equal

3:23:08process.

3:23:10equal standard so to speak.

3:23:12>> Okay. Um and then in that draft it's

3:23:15like line 248. It's the area transferred

3:23:18from space used for a community benefit

3:23:21shall exclude any setbacks. So it's like

3:23:23it talks about how you can transfer

3:23:25space from a building, how you can

3:23:26transfer space from open space.

3:23:28>> What does it mean about how you transfer

3:23:30space from a space for community

3:23:31benefit?

3:23:32>> Um this would be existing space within a

3:23:35building that is used for that community

3:23:37benefit. It could be the community

3:23:38center, the affordable housing,

3:23:40accessible housing, something things

3:23:43that are typically inside of the

3:23:44building. So you say you have in this

3:23:48example,

3:23:50if the area that says unused development

3:23:53on the diagram was actually affordable

3:23:56housing, in that case you could take

3:23:58that area that was used for affordable

3:24:00housing and transfer it to another

3:24:03height or just put it on top of that

3:24:05existing building as well.

3:24:08Does that make sense? it's it's area

3:24:12used for a community benefit within the

3:24:15building is then available for

3:24:17transferring.

3:24:19>> Okay, I think the wording on that might

3:24:22or maybe I'm just

3:24:25>> but Okay, I I get what you're saying. Um

3:24:28I don't

3:24:31>> Yeah. Um

3:24:34and then

3:24:39oh um

3:24:42the for transferring area from open

3:24:44space um there is like a list of the uh

3:24:49stuff that's excluded um and it says

3:24:52that part of the process is you have to

3:24:54like put in like the area and the length

3:24:58and width. I wonder if um it makes sense

3:25:01to put some kind of like minimum so that

3:25:03people aren't being like well there's a

3:25:0512 square feet here that like is nothing

3:25:09and so trying to get little peace meal

3:25:11bits um from around the site that aren't

3:25:14>> quite you know

3:25:16>> so have a minimum contiguous area

3:25:18requirement like a 6x6 or something

3:25:21whatever that might look like.

3:25:22>> Yeah. Um, yeah, just so that it's not

3:25:24like picking peace meal and I that's

3:25:27probably not going to happen because it

3:25:28would be an insane

3:25:30>> I could see

3:25:32I could also see it. So, uh, that's all

3:25:34I had.

3:25:36>> Uh, can you just quickly remind me or

3:25:39clarify the scope of the what a zoning

3:25:42incentive is? Like what is that 12-day

3:25:45window for?

3:25:46>> Yeah, zoning incentives, we have two

3:25:48different types. We have affordable

3:25:49housing incentives and building

3:25:51preservation incentives.

3:25:52>> Okay.

3:25:53>> Uh affordable housing incentives,

3:25:54there's a set there's established like

3:25:57affordability requirements that it's

3:25:59like the amount level of affordability

3:26:01like for a certain area median income

3:26:03and then the number of units a

3:26:05percentage of units, okay,

3:26:06>> in a project. And different zones have

3:26:09different requirements of single

3:26:10families can have kind of a lower

3:26:12requirement versus

3:26:13>> and all of those now get bundled into

3:26:15the minor plan development process

3:26:18rather than sort of going through their

3:26:19own process.

3:26:19>> It's kind of just continuing what's

3:26:21already in place a rebranding of the

3:26:24process. That's

3:26:25>> that makes sense. Um, I mean, to be

3:26:28honest, I think that having to have

3:26:30everything else that's not those things

3:26:33that's not zoning incentives go through

3:26:35the full 45day comment process is a

3:26:37little bit silly. Um,

3:26:40you know, I I think that for these

3:26:42processes, what we're talking about is

3:26:44we're we're putting some of the

3:26:46regulatory capacity and the ability to

3:26:49make actually decisions about how our

3:26:51city is planned in the hands of staff in

3:26:53in the hands of professional staff,

3:26:55which is generally what I think we can

3:26:57kind of be moving a little bit more

3:26:59towards. Um, so I understand like

3:27:02there's a lot of different voices and

3:27:04there's probably a lot of voices who

3:27:05think that um things are you know like

3:27:08uh you I mean you mentioned neighborhood

3:27:10character uh and and like that can bring

3:27:13a minor development before us but I

3:27:15actually think that in general it's

3:27:17probably you know saying like and maybe

3:27:20you I don't think this is actually like

3:27:21oh I don't want to do any work but like

3:27:23I think that staff should have

3:27:27a broader scope and a faster timeline if

3:27:30they're able to handle it to deal with

3:27:33these minor things to churn through them

3:27:35um on a on a pretty pretty good scale

3:27:38rather than having a 45day comment

3:27:40period for anybody who wants to you know

3:27:43add a second house to their property.

3:27:46>> Yeah. Um, I do wonder, um, speaking of

3:27:50adding a second house to their property,

3:27:51I think one of the first things I ever

3:27:53dealt with on the planning commission

3:27:55was a gentleman who wanted who owned his

3:27:59own property, wanted to tear it down and

3:28:00replace it with like five units. Um, and

3:28:03like he he had a whole plan for his

3:28:05family because that was demolishing his

3:28:08own home. Would that have to go through

3:28:11the major plan development process?

3:28:13>> You know, that's a good good point. And

3:28:16under the reszone process, there is that

3:28:19exception for when the property owner um

3:28:24kind of gives up their right to the the

3:28:27property or you know they sell it or

3:28:29they're they're the ones involved.

3:28:30There's no requirement for uh tenant

3:28:33displacement or unit replacement. Um

3:28:35that could be very good to include. I I

3:28:38I think I think it would I would want it

3:28:40to look pretty narrow. Like

3:28:42specifically, if this is a onelex or a

3:28:44duplex and one of those is an owner

3:28:46occupant for a certain amount of time,

3:28:49then they can kind of just say, I just

3:28:50want to do this as a minor process. Uh I

3:28:53don't want like, you know, oh, I I as

3:28:55the landlord live in my 10-unit complex

3:28:59and therefore I can kick everybody out

3:29:00without giving them displacement

3:29:02protection.

3:29:02>> Just a single owner occupied.

3:29:04>> Exactly. At that point they can

3:29:07play they can they can have a little bit

3:29:09more. Oh I mean and also that actually

3:29:11might be

3:29:12Oh no because this is uh yeah cuz cuz

3:29:16otherwise it actually increases the

3:29:17burden on zoning incentives.

3:29:20Um

3:29:22potentially I haven't read through and

3:29:24done the charting but I think it might.

3:29:27So that would be useful. Um,

3:29:30and I think those are my comments. Um,

3:29:34>> for your question on the uh um

3:29:38what was the your your first comment?

3:29:40I've already forgotten it. I wrote it

3:29:41down.

3:29:42>> 45 days.

3:29:43>> The 45 days the the noticing I was going

3:29:46to say we uh I want to bring that up

3:29:48when we jump into the policy questions.

3:29:50I got get some straw polls from from all

3:29:52of you on your opinions and that's one I

3:29:54would like to add when

3:29:56>> we get there. Um there is one other

3:29:58thing I forgot that I wanted to bring

3:29:59up. Um so in your presentation you said

3:30:02like the tenant displacement and

3:30:03demolish stuff just is. Um but the way

3:30:07it's worded in the draft makes it sound

3:30:09like it's up to us whether it is applied

3:30:12or not. So it says the planning

3:30:13commission may require the applicant to

3:30:15provide relocation assistance. And then

3:30:17below that it says this subsection may

3:30:19be applied by the planning commission.

3:30:21>> Yes.

3:30:21>> Um and so I I don't know. I I I don't

3:30:26want the onus to be on us to like be

3:30:28deciding that case by case. I think it

3:30:29just should be

3:30:30>> should be gen allowed, always required,

3:30:32yeah, always triggered.

3:30:34>> Okay, we can

3:30:37make that mega shell.

3:30:44>> I guess I have a

3:30:47just question. I I really like the

3:30:50Sorry, you weren't done writing your

3:30:52note and I interrupted.

3:30:52>> You're good. You're fine. Um, I really

3:30:55like the transfer of development height.

3:30:58I think that that's a really good option

3:31:00to help incentivize people to use these

3:31:02systems. Um, is there more we can do to

3:31:08encourage some of that kind of thing?

3:31:10Can we can we brainstorm

3:31:13more than just transfer of development

3:31:15height tools? Um, other tools that uh

3:31:18would incentivize developers to start

3:31:20using these because it's great to be

3:31:22able to use

3:31:23like have this full set of tools that

3:31:25developers can use, but if it ends up in

3:31:29different economic times not just not

3:31:31penciling for the one thing that we're

3:31:33giving them, then all of its mood. So

3:31:37like how is there is there other things

3:31:40that we can do to um add to the what a

3:31:45developer might want um in this kind of

3:31:49equation? you know, I haven't heard

3:31:51anything from developer folks. We took

3:31:54this to the business advisory board. Um,

3:31:56thrown it I've sent it to some

3:31:58developers. Um, haven't heard any ideas,

3:32:01but people generally don't think

3:32:04creatively when I'm sending them a,

3:32:06you know, boring draft like this.

3:32:09>> Yeah. [laughter] Um, so I haven't really

3:32:12expanded on that, but that is a great

3:32:14great idea to maybe change this transfer

3:32:17building height section to simply

3:32:19alternative development tools um to make

3:32:23it easy to add something in the future

3:32:25if something comes up or if you have

3:32:27something in mind um we can think about

3:32:31adding that as well. Yeah, I don't

3:32:34necessarily have anything off the top of

3:32:35my head, but I love that idea of having

3:32:37it be um like this is the tool set that

3:32:42you can use. And even if the only thing

3:32:44in that tool set currently is transfer

3:32:46of development height, we can add more

3:32:49things as we go. Um that would still

3:32:52apply to the the whole thing.

3:32:54>> Yeah. and tie it to the community

3:32:56benefit in a way that you know still

3:32:58holds a developer if they're going to

3:33:00use this we want something good in

3:33:02return.

3:33:03>> Yeah.

3:33:08>> So, uh what were the items you wanted

3:33:11straw polls on?

3:33:12>> Yeah, we'll jump into the straw poll.

3:33:13Well, the first one we'll do um coun uh

3:33:16council member Rosenfield's question,

3:33:18which is would the commission prefer

3:33:21that minor plan developments only have a

3:33:2412-day notice like zoning incentives

3:33:28um rather than the what is proposed by

3:33:30staff?

3:33:32Is that clear?

3:33:35>> Do we want to just do by raise of hands?

3:33:37>> Could you say that again? Sorry. the

3:33:39commission rather minor plan

3:33:41developments only have a 12-day noticing

3:33:43period.

3:33:44>> Okay, gotcha. Um, so yeah, in favor of

3:33:47that

3:33:50>> against

3:33:56um so I'll look into that

3:34:00without you know unanimous

3:34:02support. We'll I'll provide it as an

3:34:05option. We'll we'll talk we'll mulle it

3:34:06over as staff and think about it. Um the

3:34:09next is for minor plan developments.

3:34:12Right now it's proposed to include all

3:34:14mixeduse districts. Um we'd initially

3:34:17not included any um but then we put it

3:34:22to include all of them. The challenge

3:34:24here is that it may allow some larger

3:34:26projects to take advantage of the minor

3:34:28plan development in certain cases. So,

3:34:31should minor plan developments be

3:34:32available within some or all? Well,

3:34:35let's see. How can I rephrase that?

3:34:39Start with um should they be allowed in

3:34:41all mixeduse districts or should we only

3:34:42do some? That's still not

3:34:45>> maybe maybe raise hands for some raise

3:34:48hands if you think all is good because

3:34:50presumably anybody who thinks all is

3:34:51good would also be okay with some.

3:34:54>> Yeah. Yeah. So, we would want all in the

3:34:57included in the minor. I just don't know

3:34:59that I have enough a clear enough

3:35:02delineation in my mind yet of

3:35:07the ways that a minor development might

3:35:10play out in a major

3:35:12>> Yeah.

3:35:12>> scenario. So, um is there room for

3:35:16abstension [laughter] and

3:35:19>> Yeah.

3:35:20>> Okay. Go for it.

3:35:21>> Okay. In support of including all in

3:35:25minor plan development.

3:35:28Okay. One,

3:35:30one, two. Sorry. Um, how about only MU2

3:35:35and MU3, which are the the two and

3:35:37threetory mixeduse districts.

3:35:42Much broader support for that. Okay.

3:35:48>> Are there any other districts that don't

3:35:49allow minor plan developments at all?

3:35:52Um,

3:35:54our special purpose districts currently

3:35:56would not allow it either,

3:35:57>> but like the DS the downtown districts

3:36:00do allow minor plan development.

3:36:01>> Oh, they would not.

3:36:02>> Oh, no, they would not. Okay.

3:36:03>> Yeah.

3:36:04>> Gotcha.

3:36:05>> Special purpose downtown uh the

3:36:08manufacturing would allow it because we

3:36:10have those warehouses like we talked

3:36:12about. Uh, all PL and government

3:36:15properties would.

3:36:16>> Thank you.

3:36:19>> Is okay to go to the next one? Um, is

3:36:21the proposed 10,000 foot minimum area

3:36:24appropriate for the minor plan

3:36:25developments? Um, is it it's usually

3:36:28about two 5,000 foot lots? Um, the

3:36:32concern I've heard from some is it

3:36:33avoids overuse for trivial proposals,

3:36:37but also may prevent something that

3:36:40might be innovative at a smaller scale.

3:36:44Um,

3:36:45>> can I can I ask a question about this

3:36:47one?

3:36:47>> Yeah.

3:36:48>> How does staff feel about it? Because

3:36:50ultimately, right, like this is this

3:36:52situation would fall on staff if if

3:36:555,000 foot unit, you know, a single

3:36:59house could try and come up with an

3:37:01innovative option for their single

3:37:04family lot. On the one hand, I think

3:37:06that that could allow for real

3:37:08innovation. On the other hand, it might

3:37:09entirely overburden staff. So, is there

3:37:11a sense that staff is would be just

3:37:13totally overburdened if that were to

3:37:15occur?

3:37:15>> I think so. So I think it would open up

3:37:16the opportunity to basically bring back

3:37:19a special exception process that we

3:37:21eliminated a few years ago.

3:37:23>> Um and then the zoning incentives also

3:37:28are at this level. So technically you

3:37:30can't get a zoning incentives at under

3:37:3110,000 ft.

3:37:32>> Uh this 10,000 is limited only to those

3:37:35modifications outside of zoning

3:37:37incentives.

3:37:38>> Okay.

3:37:40And it also properties with utility

3:37:43easements are also excluded from this

3:37:4410,000 square feet.

3:37:48>> Okay. I think my my my concern in the

3:37:51other direction is that that then

3:37:52becomes like very very confusing because

3:37:54you have like minor A and minor B rather

3:37:56than just minor and major.

3:38:00>> Any other opinions on this?

3:38:05If we I mean if we go with staff's

3:38:07opinion it'd be 10 10,000 square feet

3:38:09and keep it that way.

3:38:10>> Okay. I I

3:38:13[laughter]

3:38:14>> on the one hand I want to support

3:38:15staff's capacity. On the other hand I do

3:38:17actually want to see innovation in that

3:38:18smaller scale. So

3:38:23>> I would love to see innovation at that

3:38:24smaller scale but just like overwhelming

3:38:27the planning team with like pointless

3:38:29tiny things seems uh like not a great

3:38:33idea. And I almost feel like 10,000

3:38:35square ft is too low for

3:38:37>> that.

3:38:38>> Yeah, that was my is it it are you

3:38:40asking if it should be less than or more

3:38:42than?

3:38:43>> Honestly, either way. Okay,

3:38:44>> so we've talked about less. Um how about

3:38:47more than 10,000 square feet?

3:38:48>> So what's the may prevent beneficial

3:38:50neighborhood improvements? What's that?

3:38:52Um, I mean, this is really just talking

3:38:53about smallcale development projects

3:38:55within a a community neighborhood that

3:38:57might need a little bit of

3:38:59revitalization and someone's building a

3:39:02a triplex in their backyard to bring

3:39:04more residents into the area.

3:39:08>> So, okay.

3:39:10>> I think if you guys have made an

3:39:12informed decision on 10,000 square feet,

3:39:14then that's where my

3:39:17>> what I'm hearing is 10,000's fine.

3:39:19consider more if it affects your

3:39:22capacity. Yeah, that's what I'm

3:39:24>> Yeah, I

3:39:26Yeah, because in my mind, what my mind

3:39:28jumped to is someone buying two lots so

3:39:30that they can build a four-story house.

3:39:33>> Yeah.

3:39:35>> Um is the like

3:39:40messed up way around that I I I see

3:39:42someone doing. So, that that's the only

3:39:44concern I have. I I I mean in some ways

3:39:47that that then does actually ding

3:39:50potentially if depending on how the

3:39:53revision uh to owner occupancy is

3:39:56drafted like it could potentially end up

3:39:59like you you can't that becomes a major

3:40:01plan development and therefore has to go

3:40:03before the commission and get community

3:40:05benefits because you're demolishing

3:40:06housing stock. So but I think 10,000's

3:40:10fine.

3:40:11>> Yeah.

3:40:12>> Cool. And yeah, they wouldn't be able to

3:40:14transfer that height. We don't want that

3:40:16on the smaller scale. All right. And

3:40:18then this last one is a little bit

3:40:21complicated. We have our commu

3:40:23affordable housing community benefit and

3:40:26we've received some feedback that we

3:40:28need a hard um minimum requirement for

3:40:31all developments. Like right now we've

3:40:34included or actually I changed it but we

3:40:38had a proposal for 4% of all units would

3:40:40need to be at below 30% AMI. That was

3:40:43something we had recommended to us. We

3:40:46brought that to housing stability and

3:40:48they said you know that creates an undue

3:40:49burden on smallcale developers where you

3:40:51know 4% on 100 units is 4% 4% on four

3:40:56units rounds up to one unit out of four

3:40:59and can really make that challenging.

3:41:02Um, so would it be

3:41:06what I'm asking is are you okay with

3:41:07what we have in the code right now where

3:41:10the minimum requirement for affordable

3:41:12housing community benefit would be based

3:41:14on the affordable housing incentives?

3:41:16>> Pardon me on this. I I got way confused

3:41:18with those numbers really fast.

3:41:19>> Oh, you're good. I'm sorry.

3:41:20>> Can you give me like a practical example

3:41:21of like what that would actually be? You

3:41:23know, uh, like just an just an example

3:41:26>> of the 4%.

3:41:27>> Yes, please.

3:41:28>> Yeah. So, you know, we have

3:41:31say you have a new development and it's

3:41:32got a 100 units. It's a, you know, 10 or

3:41:36five story building or something. I

3:41:38don't know.

3:41:38>> 100 units is four units in that in that

3:41:40case.

3:41:41>> Yeah.

3:41:42>> If we only had a four unit development

3:41:46like a forplex going through this

3:41:48process

3:41:50um and they're using this community

3:41:51benefit, that 4% we have to round up to

3:41:55the nearest whole number. So anything

3:41:58above one is one. So a project

3:42:02>> below one but yeah

3:42:03>> what's that?

3:42:04>> Sorry.

3:42:04>> Yeah. Um any sorry everything above zero

3:42:07is one. Between zero and one is one.

3:42:09>> Sorry. Any above zero and one is one. So

3:42:12a project of four units at 4% we have to

3:42:16essentially says a minimum of one unit

3:42:18out of those four proposed units has to

3:42:20be affordable at that 30%

3:42:23AMI.

3:42:25So if you're building fewer units, you

3:42:28might have to do 25% of your units

3:42:30instead of 4%.

3:42:31>> Okay. So if it's a quad

3:42:32>> because it's one and four. Yeah.

3:42:34>> Quad, one of those has to be affordable.

3:42:36Is that basically what you're saying?

3:42:37>> Yeah.

3:42:38>> But one of those has to be affordable to

3:42:4030% AMI.

3:42:42>> 30% AMI,

3:42:43>> which is very low.

3:42:44>> Yeah.

3:42:46>> Okay.

3:42:48And that the alternative is what's in

3:42:49the proposal here

3:42:51>> that you I sent to you, which is um just

3:42:54base it off of whatever is in the

3:42:56affordable housing incentives. Okay?

3:42:58>> Those have the standard, you know, this

3:43:02percentage and this many units. Um it

3:43:06has to be above that. It cannot be equal

3:43:08to, but always has to be above

3:43:09what'sever. I'm much bigger fan of that

3:43:12because the affordable housing

3:43:13incentives puts four units on a single

3:43:17family lot as uh two have to be 80% AMI

3:43:22which Right.

3:43:23>> Yeah. Um which I feel like would be less

3:43:26burden than one unit being 30%. Um

3:43:31>> so

3:43:33two hands for the uh affordable housing

3:43:36incentives as the regulator. I'm I mean,

3:43:39yeah, like I uh how do I say? I'm a big

3:43:42fan of code reuse. Uh and I think that

3:43:45if we can make like a consistent

3:43:47affordability requirement that we like

3:43:49reference once, like this is the

3:43:50affordability requirement. This is what

3:43:52it always looks like.

3:43:54If you want to think about doing

3:43:56something with the city, just think

3:43:57about this affordability requirement

3:43:59rather than having to go through like

3:44:00seven different subtypes. I think that

3:44:03that's the better approach.

3:44:04>> I will I'll note that. Yeah. Any

3:44:09other opinions? Okay. Well,

3:44:12that's the end of my part of the

3:44:14proposal. Any other thoughts, concerns,

3:44:16things that came up while you were

3:44:17reading through this that I we've kind

3:44:21of caught a lot of them and I've written

3:44:22them down here to be able to put back in

3:44:25before I take it back bring it back to

3:44:26you guys.

3:44:29I guess like my main

3:44:32concern is that just you started your

3:44:34staff report with talking about how

3:44:36there's been a decline in in uh this

3:44:40happening development my brain has

3:44:42forgotten development.

3:44:44>> It is. Yeah. Um

3:44:47and so that's concerning to me and that

3:44:50I would really really love to activate

3:44:52these incentives. So um

3:44:56yeah I I just whatever we can do to

3:44:59increase the pace of uh this process

3:45:03happening

3:45:04>> um I think is what we need to do. So if

3:45:06that's like

3:45:09well we currently are allowing people to

3:45:11transfer 50% of the of the development

3:45:15height like can we look at increasing

3:45:18that if it actually ends up creating

3:45:21more of this kind of product where we're

3:45:24getting these community benefits and

3:45:26we're building a better world. Um, so

3:45:30that kind of math I think needs to be I

3:45:35would like to see see susted out a

3:45:37little more slash if we could tie some

3:45:39numbers to it. I would love it of like

3:45:41well this is how much we expect

3:45:46because of this data that this will

3:45:48affect things. Does that make sense?

3:45:51Yeah, I I mean that that's go go goes

3:45:53into like kind of real estate uh

3:45:56speculation in some ways, but

3:45:58>> yeah, that's fair.

3:46:00>> I think but what you're asking for is,

3:46:02you know, we can look back if it if it

3:46:04isn't is passed, making sure we're

3:46:06studying this and seeing if it if it's

3:46:07implemented. The reason we chose 50% is

3:46:11for most of these districts, it sort of

3:46:13aligns with what's already in place for

3:46:16the affordable housing incentives for

3:46:17that additional height. They don't we

3:46:20wanted to I wanted to go much higher but

3:46:23the discussion is you know we want to

3:46:25keep this within a reasonable amount so

3:46:28we're not in introducing something

3:46:30that's so extreme out of the blue. You

3:46:33know if we do bring this up and bring it

3:46:35forward expanding those property rights

3:46:37too much could you know have people

3:46:40avoid reszoning a site in some cases. So

3:46:44>> yeah and I think that's fair. One other

3:46:46tiny thing is my personal impulse is

3:46:50that 45 ft is too far

3:46:53>> on a step back from a different zone.

3:46:56Um, but someone else might disagree, but

3:46:59I feel like that um on some of those

3:47:03those smaller M mu zones might just like

3:47:07completely make it moot. um

3:47:11>> some caveats for if there was some kind

3:47:13of like scaling with the the different

3:47:18zone increases then I don't know um but

3:47:22just a flat 45 feels a little um blunt

3:47:27makes sense. Sorry, I had just one

3:47:30thing. Um, I think in your presentation

3:47:32you said something about the number of

3:47:35public comments would kick it to us, but

3:47:37the text says if there are comments

3:47:40based on them not meeting the minimum,

3:47:43then it will go to us. Is that am I

3:47:45being pedantic? Is it basically like if

3:47:47there are a lot of comments then ba

3:47:49basically if there's a lot of comments

3:47:50and they are sub substantive?

3:47:52>> Yeah.

3:47:53>> Um, and staff generally knows what those

3:47:56are. uh may want to avoid any sort of uh

3:47:59repercussions that you know place the

3:48:02the onus on one planner want to pass

3:48:05that to you who have been appointed by

3:48:08the mayor

3:48:08>> in that case it can really vary um

3:48:12that's why we kept it vague in that case

3:48:15um to give staff the option to pass

3:48:18something on

3:48:21>> I I'd like to respond a little bit to

3:48:23Commissioner uh Kchek's

3:48:26comment about you seemed concerned about

3:48:28the drop in planned developments

3:48:31that was indicated and and that's

3:48:34it's actually a shift we dealt with that

3:48:36and I think he addresses this in his

3:48:38report it actually got shifted those

3:48:40types of developments got shifted to

3:48:42other types of applications that we

3:48:43created or we we rewrote the ordinance

3:48:47to allow it to be easier to do those

3:48:49kinds of developments. So I I understand

3:48:51your desire to create more incentives,

3:48:53but we've handled that other ways. Um

3:48:57that

3:48:58>> I see. Yeah, I think I might have missed

3:49:00that in my current seeing interest rates

3:49:04and uh uh yeah, I think that that's a

3:49:09fair point,

3:49:10>> especially with the MU changes we saw.

3:49:13Yeah, I was going to say a lot of a lot

3:49:15of the when you say that you want a lot

3:49:17of tools, we've we've been going through

3:49:21three or four different versions of that

3:49:23where it's like the EHO, the a AHI, the

3:49:25MU stuff. And so there there have been a

3:49:28lot of different ways that have been

3:49:32>> we like to see the plan development

3:49:33function more as not something you're

3:49:36getting a variance from code. you're

3:49:39just changing a setback to something

3:49:40where you're creating a higher quality

3:49:43project and we're giving you the tools

3:49:45to do that. And this is just the first

3:49:49kind of stab at that to see if we we can

3:49:51make something work. And like all of

3:49:53these like we are doing with the

3:49:55affordable housing and other projects,

3:49:57we keep track and we'll come back to

3:49:59you.

3:50:00>> Cool.

3:50:00>> If it if it passes and we

3:50:02>> Yeah.

3:50:05>> Anyone else? All right. Then that's the

3:50:07meeting. Thank you everybody.

3:50:12>> When's the next one?

3:50:18[music]

3:50:24[music]

3:50:31Heat. Hey, Heat.

3:50:37[music]

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