2026-10-06 - Planning Board

00:05Welcome to the [snorts] Davidson County

00:08Planning Board meeting for October 6,

00:122026.

00:14Um,

00:16first order of business tonight will be

00:19the adoption of our agenda.

00:20>> Mr. Chairman, if we may excuse Mr.

00:22Barney from being

00:24>> Oh, yeah. I forgot he I thought

00:26something wasn't right here. Thank you,

00:28Lyn. come a little closer to the need.

00:30>> So, we need to excuse um Mr. Barney and

00:34we would need to put in place one of our

00:36alternates as a voting member tonight.

00:40>> Mr. Chairman, I'll make a motion to

00:42excuse Mr. Barney. Second.

00:44>> Motion and a second. Any discussion?

00:47All in favor, raise your hand. Opposed?

00:50There are none. And who is up to be our

00:54uh voting member tonight? We were

00:56discussing that. We wasn't really sure.

00:58We thought that Christian may have

01:00served.

01:01>> I may have. And um Kennedy Kennedy Place

01:04is my client. So I think we should have

01:06a gym tonight.

01:08>> Okay.

01:10>> Mers.

01:12>> Yeah.

01:12>> Okay.

01:12>> Good to go.

01:14>> Brothers on. [laughter]

01:16>> I just need a motion to uh to make Jim

01:20Meyers a voting member.

01:22>> Mr. Chairman, I make a motion to put Jim

01:24Myers in as a voting member.

01:26>> Second motion and a second. Any further

01:28discussion?

01:30All in favor, raise your hand. All

01:33right, that carries unanimously.

01:36>> Welcome, Jim.

01:38>> And thank you. And Christian, as you

01:40know, you participate just as if you

01:42were voting. We welcome your input.

01:44>> Thank you.

01:47[clears throat]

01:48>> Okay. Next order of business is the

01:50adoption of our agenda.

01:53>> Mr. Cook,

01:54>> we have no additions or deletions. Mr.

01:56Chairman.

01:56>> All right. Board.

01:58>> Mr. Chairman, I'll make a motion to

01:59adopt the agenda as written.

02:01>> Second motion and a second. Any

02:03discussion?

02:06All in favor? Raise your hand. Opposed?

02:09There are none. So that carries

02:10unanimously.

02:12Our next order of business is the

02:13approval of our planning board minutes

02:16from September 15th. Mr. Chairman, I'll

02:19make a motion to approve the minutes.

02:22>> A second. Motion and a second. Any

02:25discussion?

02:28All in favor, raise your hand. Opposed?

02:31There are none.

02:33That carries.

02:35Okay, that brings us to our public

02:37address period. Um,

02:41at this time we set aside time for the

02:44public to address the planning board on

02:47matters that may pertain to planning and

02:50zoning that are not on the agenda

02:52already. [clears throat] Those items on

02:54the agenda will be able to be addressed

02:56when they come up. Anyone want to

02:59address the board at this time?

03:03>> My understanding based on what you said,

03:05if it's on the agenda, we wait till we

03:07cover it, right?

03:08>> That's correct. Yes, ma'am.

03:12>> All right. Seeing none, we'll move to

03:15our first resoning or actually our only

03:17reszoning. Mr. Crook. Thank you, Mr.

03:19Chairman. Um, our request tonight is by

03:21William L. Hedrickk to reszone property

03:23in Lexington Township, tax map 325, lot

03:2668, containing 17.94 acres, more or

03:30less. said property is located on the

03:32south side of East Park Avenue

03:34approximately 300 feet north of the

03:37Robert Everheart Road intersection.

03:39Reszoning is requested to change from

03:41that of RA3 Ral Agricultural District to

03:43that of CZLI conditional zoning limited

03:46industrial district. Um Mr. John

03:48Wheelers, my zoning officer of record.

03:50I'll yield the floor to him for a brief

03:52introduction and description.

03:54>> Thank you, Mr. C. Thank you, board. Uh

03:56just so we can get acquainted with where

03:57we are in the county, the property in

03:59question is here highlighted in in

04:00yellow. Uh just February of 2025, Mr.

04:05Hedrickk did come in and reszone uh this

04:07property on East Park Avenue for his uh

04:10construction business. We have Robert

04:12Everheart Road. We have uh 2970. Of

04:15course, the toy chest which sits right

04:17there on the corner of Robert Everheart

04:18Road and 2970. U Mr. Hedrickk today is

04:22looking at reszoning this property. to

04:23conditional zoning living industrial uh

04:25as an expansion of his business that's

04:28already been located on the property. Uh

04:30we're looking at keeping the same

04:32conditions. He wants to operate in the

04:33same manner just I believe he's acquired

04:36this property as lot 68 and he's wanting

04:39to expand so that way he can operate on

04:42both sides. Um this is just a conceptual

04:46site plan. He's of course not going to

04:48be held to it, but if uh with the way

04:50the site plans work, if Mr. Hedrik wants

04:52to put in any type of building or uh

04:56construct anything on the property, he

04:58has to show it on the site plan. If we

05:00just do a standard conditional zoning on

05:03this property and there's no building

05:05shown and Mr. Hedrickk decides in the

05:07future he wants to build a building, he

05:09would have to come back before the board

05:10to revise his site plan. So, this isn't

05:13necessarily going to be exactly what it

05:15looks like, but at max capacity of the

05:18property, this is what uh it would be.

05:21Um, and of course there's conditions

05:23that go along with the conditional

05:24zoning. These would match the

05:26conditional zoning that was previously

05:29approved just south of this. Um, Mr.

05:32Hedrickk is here today. I would like to

05:34ask him to come up speak a little bit

05:36for the board and if there's any

05:38questions for staff or Mr. Hedrickk, I'm

05:40sure we can get those answered.

05:43>> Any questions for John?

05:47>> All right, John. Hendrick.

05:48>> Mr. Hendrick. [clears throat]

05:51>> [snorts]

05:52>> go forward, backwards.

05:55>> Thank you, John. Appreciate

05:56>> it, guys. I'm here to answer any

05:59questions you may have. Um, like Mr.

06:01Wheeler said, about a year or so ago, I

06:03came before the board to reszone the

06:06existing property I've had for quite

06:07some while to run my construction

06:09company out of. I acquired the property

06:11here, we're speaking of lot 68 around a

06:14year ago and just decided that I wanted

06:17to um zone it to CZLI

06:20in case we want to build some buildings

06:22for storage in the future. We have a

06:24construction company we're just in the

06:26process of requested last year to build

06:29a a shop facility out there. We're

06:32finishing up as we speak.

06:34Not sure that I will in the future, but

06:36we bring a lot of materials in, pipe,

06:39you know, grading materials and may need

06:42a couple extra buildings. That's why

06:44they're shown on the plan there. So,

06:46basically the same thing I've been doing

06:47the last several years, just want to

06:49have this property reszoneed at your

06:51request,

06:53your permission. [clears throat] Ly, the

06:55only question I have for you

06:58knowing what you do, and I know you know

07:01what to do, I would be remissed if I

07:03didn't ask in the name of West Kimbell.

07:06Just be mindful of the blue line string.

07:08>> Yeah.

07:08>> Okay. When you know how to move dirt and

07:11it's there, it's platted, you know.

07:16>> May I ask a question of the applicant as

07:18well?

07:18>> Sure,

07:19>> Lanny. Um right here you the other

07:22property that we did back last year was

07:24very very isolated with no residential

07:26structures. You're going to bump up

07:28against some residential properties over

07:30here a little bit. Do you have any idea

07:33about the intensity of use that's going

07:35to be along this property line

07:36specifically?

07:38>> Not exactly at the time.

07:40>> Okay.

07:41>> I think that we, you know, as far as the

07:43homeowners there, we would leave a tree

07:45buffer um to protect the homeowners

07:47there. I think the road, the driveway,

07:50as you can see, it's a cut over now

07:51that's kind of grown up, but there's a

07:53road that it shows. It's actually just a

07:55path that the loggers used before I

07:56acquired the property.

07:57>> Yes, sir.

07:58>> That would probably be the best place

08:00suitable for a road that went into some

08:02stored material sites or some buildings

08:04in the future. But I would be mindful of

08:06the property line, you know, making sure

08:08we left a a vegetative hedge or

08:10something for

08:12>> Would you be willing to offer like a

08:13width of that? So something quantitative

08:16that we can we can have as a condition.

08:19>> Yeah. I mean I'm not sure exactly what

08:21that would look like right now. I think

08:22that topography there is challenging as

08:24it goes up and down. So you want to stay

08:27away maybe 20 25 foot

08:30>> and leave that wooded

08:31>> probably. I mean it would I would want

08:32it wooded for my protection as well just

08:34to protect the you know whatever I'm

08:37doing as well. So

08:38>> appreciate that. Appreciate that.

08:40>> Yeah.

08:41>> That's something we can add to the

08:42conditions.

08:43>> As long as Mr. Mr. Hedrickk agrees to

08:45that. Yes.

08:46>> I'm not sure the exact footage. I mean,

08:47I would like minimum, but yet, you know,

08:49something respectful to the to the land

08:51owners and I,

08:52>> you know, I've been out there for

08:53several years now and really hadn't had

08:55a lot of folks call me or contact me and

08:57say, "Hey, they don't really like what

08:58I'm doing or any trouble." So, feel like

09:00we're okay in good graces with the

09:02neighbors, but I would want to be

09:04respectful and mindful of them as well.

09:06>> We need to nail down a footage, won't

09:08we? If we're going to do a condition,

09:10>> it would be it would be helpful for us

09:12if no way to regulate it.

09:14>> Yeah. Yeah.

09:15>> But 20 foot would

09:16>> Yeah, I think 20 foot would be would be

09:18fine. You know,

09:19>> that's something we can measure.

09:21>> Yeah, that's a measurable. It's a

09:23straight line there. We could come off

09:24of that 20 foot to leave a buffer zone.

09:27Maybe there might would be some grading

09:29inside that, but but leave a a buffer of

09:32vegetative trees or plant back if I did

09:34take them out. Right now, it's just like

09:35a jungle from a cut over. cut over

09:37before [clears throat] I purchase the

09:38property.

09:38>> It's going to be thick. Yeah.

09:39>> Yeah.

09:40>> M. Roger, do you plan on fencing that

09:43side as well or, you know, not that side

09:46as of right now. I have the road front

09:47of course fenced and screened. Um,

09:52if I need to, I can, but right now I

09:54haven't, you know, haven't done any work

09:55there and don't have any plans right

09:57away to start anything. But, um, I I

10:01think that I would like for a request

10:03that the vegetative hedge act as the

10:07fence per se, you know, because it's

10:09it's going to be 20 foot wide and thick

10:11and I think that would be sufficient.

10:14Okay. Does that satisfy the board?

10:17[clears throat]

10:17>> Is there some way to you're after

10:19opacity, I guess. Is that correct?

10:21>> We're just after some level of of um

10:24opacity for the residential homeowners

10:28over there. And we we can add a

10:30condition that states along the uh

10:33eastern property line. Um there'll be a

10:3620ft vegetated buffer left uh and

10:41maintained to protect that property line

10:43where it adjoins the RA3 properties to

10:47the east.

10:48>> That sounds sounds fair to me. Is

10:50>> that okay?

10:50>> Yes, sir.

10:51>> Okay.

10:51>> Okay. I'm fine with that.

10:53>> You got that language down

10:55>> right here.

10:55>> Okay. [laughter and clears throat]

10:58>> It's a lock, isn't it? It's locked in

10:59there. Do you have any entrance or exit

11:01off of Eastport out of this one or will

11:04you just cross over from what you

11:05already

11:06>> um would have one there and I would need

11:07to obtain a DOT permit to do so.

11:11>> What do you plan to do a creek crossing?

11:14>> If I obviously if I cross that area I

11:16would have to get a 401 404 permit to be

11:19able to to do that. Um right now I would

11:22say I would just use both sides of it

11:24and keep that um protected there for

11:26now. I I think he submitted too that he

11:29may he'll probably get a NC DOT driveway

11:32permit,

11:33>> right,

11:33>> for the other if he enters the other

11:35side of the creek and not cross the

11:37creek, he'd get another driveway permit

11:39over there on that side.

11:40>> That makes sense.

11:41>> Yeah.

11:43And and with respect to the condition,

11:45we will word that up and and let legal

11:48vet it and then Mr. Hedrickk will see it

11:51to make sure he's okay [clears throat]

11:52with it. And then that that's what we'll

11:54proceed to the board of commissioners.

11:58in that um sketch plan or whatever you

12:01called it where you show some um

12:05hypothetical buildings

12:08um that you know when I first glanced at

12:10it looks like that could be a business

12:12park.

12:13>> Right. Right. No, no intentions. That's

12:16just these buildings are not exactly to

12:19scale um off that plan. But

12:22>> I just know

12:23>> in the future like if you as going to

12:25the zoning if we put them on paper we're

12:27interested in getting them we don't have

12:28to go back later the way I understand

12:29that process. So you know a lay down

12:32area and some building for storage would

12:34like to have but I have no intentions of

12:37a business part per se.

12:39>> Okay. [snorts]

12:41All right.

12:43Any other questions for Mr. Hendrick?

12:46Any questions for us?

12:50Just just you'll get an opportunity.

12:52Um,

12:54okay. Uh, I'll let you have a seat, Mr.

12:57Ted, and we may call you back up if we

12:59have questions.

13:01All right.

13:03If, uh, anyone wants to comment on this

13:06resoning, if you would just come to the,

13:08uh, microphone, state your name and

13:10address for the record, please.

13:15Good evening, gentlemen. It's first time

13:17I've got to see you all working. Uh my

13:19name is Don Hash and I live in Davidson

13:22County, not far from where this is. Um

13:24Mr. Hedrickk, um I have no qualms about

13:27what he is intending, but I do have a

13:30question that I think is a highly

13:31concerned. I remember when he was doing

13:33the first property and the ladies that

13:35their property attached to the first

13:37property, they were concerned. So, being

13:40in construction, I'm not quite sure what

13:42kind of materials he'll be storing

13:43there. Is there any blasting caps? Is

13:45there any hazmat material he'll be

13:47putting on that site? If so, I would ask

13:50that he name it now. So, we're uh, you

13:53know, all on the same page. If it's

13:56nothing that's hazmat, nothing blasting

13:58caps, dynamite, or anything that he

14:00would be doing and storing there, then I

14:03would like for him to publicly say so.

14:05Thank you for allowing me to speak.

14:08Thank you, Miss Hash.

14:12[cough and clears throat]

14:14>> Yeah, thank you for bringing that up. I

14:16do not have any intentions nor will ever

14:19store blasting materials on the site. I

14:23found that out at someone else. I'm not

14:24small enough to do a lot of blasting.

14:26So, I [laughter] have no intentions of

14:27that one ever.

14:28>> Kind of figure

14:29>> inert debris. This [clears throat] what

14:31I have out there bringing in, you know,

14:33logs, dirt, concrete to recycle. um and

14:36sometimes mulch it up for erosion

14:38control, but that's pretty much it. We

14:40don't and stored materials would be pipe

14:44um things like that of nature of water

14:46and sewer and and storm drains utility

14:48type stuff. That's pretty much the

14:50storage I've got and equipment of

14:52course.

14:52>> Okay.

14:53>> Yeah.

14:54>> Thank you.

14:54>> Thank you. How does that sound to you,

14:57Miss Hash?

14:58>> Very good. Thank you so much. All right.

15:00>> Anyone else want to address this matter?

15:05Lee, have you heard from anyone out

15:07there about this? I

15:08>> don't think our office has received a

15:10single call uh on this application.

15:13>> Okay.

15:16All right. [cough and clears throat]

15:18Do you have a recommendation?

15:19>> We do, sir. Um is the board comfortable

15:22and and familiar with all the

15:23conditions? Yeah,

15:26>> the the only one that they're that he's

15:28talking about adding is the one we've

15:29discussed tonight with the 20 foot

15:31vegetated buffer along the eastern

15:32property line and that a NC DOT driveway

15:36permit will be uh applied and awarded

15:40for the new property if he decides to go

15:42on the other side of the creek. Um

15:47the subject property is isolated but is

15:49in close proximity to Highway 2970. The

15:52entrance to the applicant's property is

15:54only 1,000 ft off of US the US 2970

15:57corridor. The US 2970 corridor is

16:00identified as an economic development

16:01corridor by the Davidson County Land

16:03Development Plan. Highway commercial

16:05zoning is only 800 ft to the north of

16:07the applicant's entrance and general

16:10district limited industrial zoning is

16:12located 960 ft to the north and is

16:15better known as the old toy chest

16:17building. The subject tract is now

16:19contiguous to a 25 acre CZLI zoning

16:22district to the southwest. Um, to access

16:25the applicant's property, you do have to

16:26travel past several residences on East

16:28Park Avenue or Robert Everheart Road.

16:31East Park Avenue is a dead-end road

16:32terminating in the North Carolina

16:34Railroad right away. Uh, the property to

16:36the north is vacant with no building tax

16:39value shown. Uh, properties to the north

16:41and east are a mixture of being vacant

16:43and having dwellings located on them.

16:46That's the eastern property line that we

16:48were talking about. Staff would I put in

16:50here staff would like to ask the

16:51applicant how intensive the use of the

16:53property is is proposed along the

16:55eastern property line to see if

16:57screening of some type may be needed.

16:58And he's he's uh offered the 20 foot.

17:02The property to the west is the

17:03applicant's existing place of business

17:05and his own CZLI. Staff compliments the

17:07applicant in his preparation of the uh

17:09this application recognizing the

17:11potential conflict with surrounding

17:12uses. Uh this type of activity does

17:15require large acreage and is beneficial

17:17if acreage is somewhat isolated. Uh

17:20staff is going to offer support for

17:21[clears throat] the request citing close

17:23proximity and easy access to the 29 US

17:252970 corridor. The fact that this

17:28property is isolated locally from other

17:30uses in the area is a benefit in staff's

17:33opinion. Staff is comfortable with

17:34conditions proposed in the application

17:36and feel they offer protection to the

17:38few adjoining property owners in the

17:40area. The topography of this location

17:42seems to not offer a high probability of

17:45large-scale subdivision in the area,

17:47which is staff's opinion is a benefit to

17:48the applicant. Staff will offer several

17:51policy statements that will support the

17:52applicant's request. Policies 11,1123, 1

17:551517,18,

17:564142, 44, and 74. All in support. Um,

18:03this application is in compliance with

18:05article 7 administration uh of the

18:08Davidson County zoning ordinance due to

18:11both changing conditions in the area

18:13with the amount of growth we're taking

18:14on and the fact that it's contiguous to

18:17limited industrial zoning to the west.

18:20Staff will uh offer support for the

18:22application and ask you to approve the

18:24request.

18:26>> Thank you, Lee. Just a question that um

18:29Yes, sir. I think there's a little hi

18:31that juts down uh in there. Maybe it

18:33doesn't adjoin that existing LI CDI.

18:37>> That's the old city landfield.

18:40>> Okay.

18:41>> On the other side of the railroad tracks

18:43that's been closed for a long time,

18:45>> right?

18:45>> You can get get down in there by going

18:47by Morton buildings there on 64.

18:50>> Okay.

18:52>> Yeah. [clears throat]

18:53Mr.

18:54>> Chairman, I'd like to make a motion.

18:56>> All right. in support of the application

18:58that we allow the reszoning of the

19:02property from RA3 to CZLI based on its

19:06nature being contiguous to other u

19:09similar or or like kind uh districts and

19:14it's also in compliance with the zone

19:18zoning ordinance and the county's policy

19:21for this land development

19:23>> with with the amended conditions

19:25>> with the condition stated along with the

19:28added condition of the 20 foot buffer.

19:30>> Thank you, sir.

19:31>> Second.

19:33[clears throat]

19:33>> Okay, I have a motion and a second. Any

19:36further discussion?

19:39>> All in favor, raise your hand. Opposed?

19:42There are none. So, that carries

19:44unanimously.

19:45Um, Mr. Hedrickk, um, as you may know,

19:48we are recommending board. So, um we

19:51will be sending a recommendation

19:53uh a favorable recommendation for

19:55reszoning this property in accordance

19:57with your application and the um amended

20:02conditions and the commissioners will

20:05hear that on October the 26th.

20:09You'll want to be here for that.

20:11>> Yes, sir. Good luck.

20:15All right.

20:19Is that 26th of Is that an evening

20:21meeting?

20:22>> It is. Yes, sir.

20:23>> Every now and then they slip in a

20:26morning meeting and I never I always

20:27wonder that that that is an afternoon 6

20:30p.m. meeting.

20:31>> Okay.

20:36>> Welcome, Josh. All right. Thank you, Mr.

20:39Green. Uh we have just a single

20:41subdivision item on for you review

20:43tonight. And uh I think recalls this

20:46one, but I'll just briefly let everyone

20:47know where we are and what this request

20:48is. So this is a request for final

20:51approval for phase two of Kennedy Place.

20:54So we're all aware uh the site is here

20:57and blue. This is along Kenya Road

20:59basically sandwich from Kenya Road and

21:00NC9 just south of Thomasville. This uh

21:04shade area is Thomasville city zoning.

21:06Uh this is just north of the Benley Road

21:08intersection.

21:10the uh this originally came before you

21:12last October for a preliminary approval

21:15um of this site and let me skip this

21:19probably the best view of it. So you can

21:20see right here there are three lots that

21:22have been carved out on this

21:23northeastern corner one two and three

21:25that was done as sort of phase one of

21:27this uh project. So phase two which is

21:30what 49 is for the remaining 19 lots in

21:33this area highlighted in blue.

21:36I did drive by the site last week to

21:38take a look at this is uh looking at the

21:41entrance road come in looking towards

21:42the south uh southwest back towards 109

21:45beyond the trees here. Um you can see

21:48the road is in uh the land has been

21:50cleared. Here's another view looking

21:52north. Here's the phase one homes that

21:53are currently under construction.

21:55There's Kenny Road heading north towards

21:57Thomasville.

21:59And you see again this is looking back

22:01from the culdeac back towards the south.

22:03You see the water lines are in. There's

22:05a hydrant right there. Uh my

22:07understanding is that the developer will

22:09seed um once the electrical is in which

22:12is which is pandine.

22:15And here's one more photo I will come

22:17back to in just a moment. So this is the

22:20uh the final plat preparing to our

22:22office. And again this is for the

22:24remaining 19 lots here and that what's

22:26being called phase two of Kennedy Place.

22:29Um as you can probably tell this uh

22:31citizen does utilize lot size averaging.

22:34Um it does meet the required one per

22:3640,000 density requirement. This is in

22:39the wershed area. Um these larger lots,

22:41especially these two on the south end

22:43right here, uh it does bring the overall

22:46development phase one and two combined

22:48up to that required one per 40,000

22:51density.

22:53I do have uh in receipt a number of

22:57documents. I'll just read to the record.

22:59So our office has received

23:03just this week in the last a few

23:07certifications. So I do have a letter

23:10from uh licensed soil scientist Joe

23:13Johnson uh just stating that all these

23:16lots uh will uh are suitable for once

23:19and those permits are uh in the process

23:22of being delivered to the applicant.

23:24I have a uh an engineer certification

23:28from professional engineer Garrett Neil

23:30just certifying the water lines um have

23:33been installed and uh constructed to

23:35state standards. And finally, I have

23:38another certification from Mr. Neil uh

23:40certifying that the roadway is uh

23:43constructed and in as per state

23:45standards. I will point out that the

23:47circulation just came in uh this week.

23:49So, I have not yet received uh formal

23:52acceptance of the certifications from

23:54either Davidson Water or uh NC DOT. Uh

23:58if the board does approve this uh

24:01tonight, I'd like to ask the board to

24:02condition upon the successful receipt of

24:05those approvals from Davidson Water and

24:07NC DOT uh before staff signs off on the

24:10final plant.

24:13Uh but unless there's more questions for

24:15staff, u I think Mr. Jonathan Cook is

24:18here on behalf of the development team.

24:20Uh he answer questions likewise. I'm

24:23here to take questions that you may have

24:24for staff as well.

24:27>> I've got a question. Um Josh,

24:33>> I I just I don't know if I was absent

24:36when we did a preliminary on this.

24:38Probably not. And I'm just now seeing

24:40this lot 10

24:42um includes all these septic easements.

24:46Mhm.

24:46>> So those

24:48those those plots, if you will, that are

24:51used for septic for those designated

24:54lots are actually owned by someone else,

24:56whoever owns lots in.

24:58>> Right. That's that's my understanding.

25:00>> And and I'm going to assume that that's

25:03in order that was done that way in order

25:05to meet the lot size averaging

25:07requirement. Lot 10 of course being much

25:10bigger than most of the others. I I just

25:15I guess if we weren't at the stage we're

25:18at,

25:19I would not I mean I I would not have a

25:24a favorable response on that. I'm just I

25:27don't I mean if it it meets our if it

25:29meets our uh ordinance and our

25:32standards, that's fine.

25:34>> Um I just it's one of those things I

25:37could foresee some issues there.

25:39Possibly, hopefully not, but possibly.

25:41>> Right. And Mr. M, my understanding is

25:43that there's and again um the soil map

25:45reflects some poor soil in this area

25:47here and you see here there is an

25:48easement given access basically for

25:50these lots here. But um you know as you

25:52can tell you lot 10 even though it will

25:55I believe the building pad is right here

25:56near the culac. Uh this will be uh you

26:00know septic easement for those those

26:02other lots that need the soil for their

26:04septic. So again, um this is due, I

26:06think, just to the the overall uh site

26:10quality and the quality of soil

26:11specifically.

26:12>> Yeah, I understand that. I I'm just

26:14saying ordinarily you see, for instance,

26:18if lot 12 is served by this septic

26:22easement, then that would be deed as lot

26:2512A and it would be deed over to um to

26:29whoever buys lot 7. But again, if that's

26:33I I don't I don't remember seeing us do

26:35that in the past. So that's all I'm

26:38saying. And honestly, not I actually

26:40have here I'm just out of curiosity

26:42really more than anything. I have the

26:43original soil analysis here from Mr.

26:46Johnson back in August of last year. Um

26:49I'm happy to sort of show that to the

26:51board, but it does sort of show, you

26:52know, um sort of where the poor soil is,

26:56which does [snorts] line up along here.

26:57here. And again, I'm not sure if this

26:59was something that we discussed in depth

27:01that mean or not, but I think this is

27:02the uh sort of their justification, you

27:05know, for for that. Um, but certainly

27:07that's your concern to noted, Mr.

27:09Chairman.

27:12>> Okay.

27:14Any other questions for Josh?

27:17I will point out one more thing as well,

27:19just um because it was a question I have

27:21on this plat, but you'll notice here

27:22that you know that we do have additional

27:24culde-sac here on this street right

27:26here. This is sort of dead ends into

27:28basically a driveway for these three

27:30lots here. And there is some language in

27:31our ordinance that normally requires

27:33some type of approved turnaround or

27:35culde-sac uh on dead end streets. Um in

27:38staff's opinion, this would not

27:40necessitate that because this

27:41effectively is not a street. It's

27:42basically just an access for these three

27:44lots right here. So um you know, putting

27:46a culde-sac here would sort of um just

27:49eat up valuable real estate that's not

27:51really necessary. But again, just

27:52because it's questions, that was sort of

27:53SAF's thought process was, you know,

27:56this is really effectively not a dead

27:59street, just an access for these three

28:00lots here. And I believe um well, I know

28:03D has also come to the same conclusion,

28:05they've issued a permit for this site

28:07approving of of this this connection and

28:10this layout of the street. So, just so

28:12it's clear, we don't normally see this,

28:14but in this case, with the way it's laid

28:15out, it wouldn't really be effective or

28:17prudent to put in a culde-sac or

28:19turnaround at this site.

28:21I understand these these septic tank

28:25lots back here are [clears throat] all

28:28going to be owned by lot 10. Is that

28:30what you were saying?

28:32>> That's my I don't know if um if if Mr.

28:35Can

28:35>> I just I just see a problem in down the

28:37road when you got a seaf tank system on

28:40somebody else's property.

28:43What's going to happen?

28:46Uh I I agree there could be there there

28:49is potential for there to be an issue

28:51between neighbors.

28:52>> Yeah.

28:53>> But that's the reasoning for the the

28:56easement uh for their septic fields.

28:59>> We can't can't them be deed back to the

29:02lot and just have the easement

29:05getting into it.

29:07>> Couldn't meet the lot size averaging

29:09doing that. Now that lot size averaging

29:11wouldn't be affected because the lot

29:13size averaging is based off of the

29:15number of lots over the total acreage.

29:18>> So it just depends on you can cut them

29:19up, piece them together whichever way.

29:22If if the staff doesn't read the

29:25ordinance as saying that these extra

29:27lots are

29:29are actual extra lots or if they're just

29:32a continuation of another lot even

29:34though they don't touch each other

29:36>> which I have seen I think Stony Point is

29:38like that

29:39>> that that's a good example Mr. So that's

29:41that's opinion is that if it's noted on

29:42the plat if they were separate lots

29:44they're noted as you know non buildable

29:45lots or you know septic area that would

29:47be that that would not affect lots of

29:49they could still you know maintain their

29:52density uh with those separate lots if

29:54that's something we had a similar thing

29:56point another one um they use also

30:00septic actually have that same a similar

30:02arrangement. So if he done it that way,

30:05he'd still be able to have the same

30:07amount of lots, but number 10 wouldn't

30:11own all them. Correct.

30:13>> Right. Yeah. From staff's point as if

30:15it's not here as as an easement or as a

30:18separate lot as long as it's a

30:19non-buildable lot and that wouldn't

30:21count towards their a lotment for the

30:22lot and get a discussion you to have

30:25with the builder or the development

30:27team. But staff has no issue with with

30:29with that if that's

30:30>> if you do it that way,

30:31>> right? what I think the problem for us

30:34from a development standpoint are

30:36>> I can go along with that but I I don't

30:38like the way

30:39>> I agree with the way this map is cuz

30:42that's we're causing problems for

30:44somebody down the road.

30:46>> I'm I'm like Greg though. I I don't

30:48remember seeing this on the preliminary.

30:50Was it drawn like this on the

30:51preliminary?

30:52>> No, because the soil scientists had not

30:55done the layouts yet in order to

30:57determine exactly how these would be

30:59done. So this part of it new there was a

31:02note on it that this area was reserved

31:05for offsite septic for some of these

31:07lots but it was not drawn in detail. I

31:10have just one call and pass it down.

31:12This is the original tornado that was

31:13approved last year. You can't see it

31:16does have the same lot configuration but

31:19of course the steps were not there

31:21because the slopes work was not

31:23completed yet but this approved last

31:25year.

31:26>> Lot 10 was certainly a lot smaller.

31:28Um

31:31>> and I believe it's also you know

31:33certainly this could also be you know

31:34utilized. We've seen some developers use

31:36this as common area and have that as you

31:38know common area manif or or you know

31:40rather than owner again that would not

31:42affect our lot size averaging because it

31:45wouldn't change the number of buildable

31:46lots as easements separate lots common

31:50area really makes no difference from our

31:52standpoint of how many lots are allowed

31:54on this on this track. Well, I'd agree

31:57to it being done a different way, but I

31:59don't I don't like I don't like this

32:02scenario here.

32:03>> I [clears throat] I agree with Joe. I

32:05would feel much better if it was like

32:08Chairman Green said, 12A, 10A, whatever.

32:12>> How about common area? [laughter]

32:15>> Well, that's common for all of them.

32:18>> That's that's the only problem I have

32:19with that. And it may be uh hunky dory

32:22to the ordinance and it may be fine. Uh

32:25but to the point of

32:28uh neighborhood squables down the road,

32:31>> I I

32:34listen that the first owner of lot 10

32:36may not care. Uh but uh somebody else

32:39may have uh another situation for for a

32:44completely different reason that we

32:46don't know. Um,

32:49[clears throat]

32:50all I'll say is if it if if it meets the

32:52ordinance, I don't know that we can even

32:56request a change. But it sure would make

32:59it cleaner, I think, if

33:02uh like these gentlemen have said to

33:04allocate those individual sites to the

33:07lots that they

33:08>> if they were deed to the right.

33:10>> Yeah, that that's the thing.

33:12>> That's just cleaner. I mean, that's up

33:14to you guys and staff. I agree with

33:16that. I think that's what we should do.

33:18Something

33:21>> sir

33:24staff feels this requires certainly if

33:26Mr. Cook and his willing to go back and

33:28reconfigure it. I mean it's you know I

33:30think it's certainly reasonable for the

33:32board to ask that of him and see if

33:33that's something he will to uh to uh

33:36entertain. You know, if we had seen this

33:38in the preliminaries or seen thoughts of

33:41it, you know, we could have done

33:43something in the preliminaries, but now

33:44we're to final and here it is throwed on

33:47us. To me, it's a whole completely

33:49different concept and a whole completely

33:51different map. That's just the way I see

33:53it.

33:54>> Well, I think this might be a good

33:56argument. I mean you can say that you

33:57know in most cases you know um you can

34:00already this may be a large enough

34:01modification may be something that the

34:03board may want to you know re make clear

34:05about it more to the final. So in the

34:07past we uh back as a as a revised

34:11preliminary but certainly I think um you

34:13know if Mr. Uh hope and his team are

34:17willing to you know reconsider some

34:19alternatives here. That's something I

34:20think we can entertain. Um if if we want

34:23to, you know, put up the draw board, see

34:24if this is truly the only option or

34:26there is some better way to to design

34:29these lots.

34:31>> We are we are willing to to see if

34:34there's other options to to please the

34:36board. I do have a concern as far as the

34:39uh the expiration of the preliminary

34:42approval. uh with going back to the

34:46drawing board per se. We need what we

34:49need to do to extend that time. We could

34:51you know in terms I'm sure I come back

34:53in two weeks or a month and what time is

34:55I think with the board. So we could

34:57extension or

34:59>> if you're willing if you're willing to

35:01do it we we'll be to give you the

35:04extension to do it.

35:05>> Okay.

35:06>> Let let me if I may ask Andrew do you

35:09have any thoughts for us on this?

35:12No, no. I mean, the substantive comment

35:14from Mr. Tussy was that the board's

35:18request does not materially change. In

35:20other words, it doesn't we're not

35:21changing lot lines, per se. We're not

35:23he's not losing houses. So, I mean, from

35:26a a legal issue, this is not this is a

35:29preference issue, right? This is this is

35:30a and I and I think a wise one. I mean,

35:33we were just talking this is probably

35:35not something we would be forced to

35:37intervene in in the future when

35:39neighbors have squables and won't let

35:40you know Johnny won't let Susie come fix

35:42her septic system, but um I mean

35:44certainly going to have two people

35:45fussing at the county for why we let

35:47this happen, right? I mean so um so

35:49yeah, I mean I think this is it's a good

35:51it's a reason but from legal I have yeah

35:54we're we're good.

35:54>> That brings up a good point. You could

35:56have the owner of lot 10 deny access

35:58>> right

35:58>> to the to the site. a lot of calls on

36:01these types of issues.

36:02>> Yeah.

36:03>> Somebody's at odds with their neighbor

36:04and they use anything they can to uh

36:07play, you know, vindictive acts on them.

36:11>> So, so if it were deed, and it's just my

36:13thinking here, Andrew, if it were deed

36:15versus an easement, does that not give

36:18the owner of that septic parcel a little

36:22more protection and than if he just has

36:25an easement?

36:26>> It certainly Yeah. I mean, it's it's

36:28going to it makes it a little less

36:29susceptible to to, you know, again,

36:32Johnny and Bobby have a fight and then,

36:34you know, Johnny won't let Bobby drive

36:35down beside his house, that kind of

36:36thing. But ultimately, I mean, you're

36:38still driving behind or around someone's

36:40house. I mean, that doesn't completely

36:42eliminate,

36:43>> you know, the risk of of, you know,

36:45boundary issues. [clears throat] But,

36:47but again, with being deemed, it's a

36:48much quicker trip up the street and uh

36:51and probably a pretty quick court order

36:52letting, you know, the neighbor fix what

36:55they need to fix. And there will still

36:57be an access easement to get back to

36:59these lots. There's no way to not have

37:01that.

37:01>> You got to have that. I get I get that.

37:04>> But, you know, if if lot 10 owns all of

37:06them and he's mad at somebody and

37:08decides, well, I'm going to plant a

37:10bamboo field and we know what happens

37:12with bamboo. I'm just just throwing it

37:14out there. That could not I got a

37:16feeling that would not be good for the

37:17septic system.

37:19Um, not to say he couldn't do it anyway.

37:22I mean, but if if the person owns it, I

37:25got to believe it gives them much more

37:27standing in in the court if they have to

37:29go there.

37:31>> Yeah. And you avoid the issue, too,

37:33where I mean, essentially lot 10 is

37:35paying taxes on a property that he or

37:37she can't use.

37:39>> There's a lot of people that do that.

37:41That Duke rightways

37:42>> Yeah.

37:43>> They get frustrated with Duke's

37:45rightways all the time because they tell

37:47you what you can and can't do under

37:48their power line, but you pay the

37:50property tax on it.

37:51>> Yeah.

37:53So,

37:56would the board prefer this to be a a

37:58common area or an HOA owned area or

38:03individual lots?

38:05The idea current configuration is that

38:08the HOA would maintain all of those

38:11systems

38:13there.

38:14>> So, you are going to have an HOA.

38:16>> Yes. I think if you're going to have an

38:18HOA, it would be good to just do it all

38:21as common area.

38:22>> Okay.

38:23>> Um you could still or you could do some

38:26form of limited common area that is

38:28common area limited only for this

38:30purpose. Not that just anybody on this

38:32can wander back there.

38:34>> Yeah.

38:34>> If you write that up in the restrictive

38:36covenants.

38:37>> Yeah.

38:39>> So the ownership would remain

38:42of those leech fields would remain with

38:44the homeowners association. Is that what

38:46you're proposing?

38:47>> Which is done quite often a lot of the

38:49others. [clears throat]

38:49>> I don't like that.

38:51>> So if they have trouble then is the HOA

38:53going to pay to fix the receptic tank

38:55line

38:55>> with the dues that you pay for the

38:56lights that don't apply to it?

38:59>> Yeah, that's what I'm saying.

39:00>> Well, the HOA would would maintain the

39:02surface.

39:03>> But the the fields would be for for

39:06whichever home is is going to that that

39:09field.

39:10>> They'd need to make sure their attorneys

39:11write up the restrictive covenants in a

39:14way that protects that. And most of them

39:15do because you have a lot of title work

39:18going into these things.

39:20>> And it may not be bad for it to be a HOA

39:22because if the HOA is keeping it up,

39:24they're going to have to keep it mowed

39:25and everything.

39:26>> If you put it in a homeowners,

39:28>> they may say

39:32that was the thought that got us to to

39:34here that the maintenance of that

39:35surface lot 12 down. Maybe they're going

39:39to go over there and mow that.

39:42>> That's why I said I'm with it.

39:45Okay.

39:46>> All right.

39:48>> Okay. So, I I think I get your rationale

39:50there that providing that the HOA is

39:54functional.

39:56>> I mean, I think there probably are some

39:58that are dysfunctional. [laughter]

40:02>> The only issue I have with that is

40:04certain lights that don't use those

40:06leech fields paying dues for those for

40:09the maintenance of that. I that seems a

40:13little unfair, but I I agree with you. I

40:16I think it's much better in the hands of

40:18the HOA than the

40:21having somebody take care of it that may

40:23not.

40:24>> Well, they could pay an extra search

40:25charge. I mean,

40:26>> yeah, those those fees would be assessed

40:29>> based on that are utilizing it.

40:32>> We'll take your word for it.

40:35Just out of curiosity, something

40:36completely

40:38uh different I have to ask cuz I asked

40:40this of all of them. As the post office

40:43said, you have to have a cluster box.

40:46>> Yes, in the culde-sac.

40:48>> Okay,

40:51fair enough.

40:52>> But it would remain in the right of way.

40:56>> Just curious.

40:58Okay.

40:59>> I hate [laughter] them.

41:04from from here it's your recommendation

41:07that it remains in the HOA or individual

41:10lots.

41:14>> It sounds like

41:15>> that's the best. Well, you think about

41:16it. If

41:17>> if lot 15 that is way down here and his

41:20sept tank system is up here behind lot

41:2310,

41:25>> you got to drive your lawn.

41:26>> Go up there all the time to know.

41:28>> Yeah.

41:29>> I agree with you.

41:30>> It ain't behind his house. And then the

41:32neighbors are gonna get frustrated

41:33watching him drive his lawnmower up and

41:35down the road every Saturday to go mow

41:37it.

41:38>> I really

41:38>> And you'd have a fleet of them. If they

41:40all if every one of them decide they mow

41:41at the same time, they're all going down

41:44the road and the lawnmowers together.

41:46[laughter] I think it would be better if

41:47the HOA maintains them because you have

41:49one,

41:50>> you know, on the lots that that have the

41:53easements for the receptic tank system.

41:55You know, maybe their their dues is a

41:58little bit more every month like you

42:00said. So it's not really costing all

42:02everybody else to keep

42:03>> Yeah.

42:04>> this guy's system up.

42:05>> Our thought was that the the lot 10

42:07owner would maintain all of it because

42:10they're they would own all of it. The

42:12surface of it.

42:14>> Yeah. But he's not required to do that.

42:17And if he's I don't know exactly how

42:20that lot lays. So you know at 2.8 acres

42:25it's price hard to mow. [laughter]

42:28No,

42:29>> just put in common area then.

42:31>> Yeah.

42:32>> Yeah. And

42:33>> do we need to vote on that, Josh?

42:36>> I think I'd like to have a vote just to

42:38I guess extend the plate approval for I

42:41don't know two months. I think two

42:44months would do it.

42:44>> Yeah. Just to get time to come back with

42:46a a basically a new version. That'll

42:48give us time to also to get comments if

42:50any back from NC do from Davidson water

42:53about [clears throat]

42:54certifications or normally those are in

42:55hand before we come here. if these come

42:57in late so they haven't come in yet but

42:59that would I think that would be the

43:00best way to just extend it for three

43:01months um that that would give this team

43:05come back with a new design utilizing

43:08common area versus easement and we would

43:10also have any comments or concerns back

43:12from days and water dot by that time as

43:15well.

43:15>> Okay. So you need a motion for

43:18>> an extension place

43:22approval by two months after two months.

43:25Is that enough?

43:27>> You want to make it three?

43:29>> Yeah.

43:30>> I I just uh just for clarity that the if

43:34they revise the plat is still going to

43:37show these [clears throat] septic lots

43:39with the with the puts and calls on it.

43:43>> Yes. There would still be easements, but

43:45it would all be inside common area.

43:47>> Okay. And I mean that way if for some

43:50reason in the future if they wanted to

43:52deed them if HOA wanted to deed them off

43:55to the owners they could do it.

43:56>> You would be able to. Yes.

43:58>> Okay.

44:00>> You need a motion then?

44:01>> Yep. We need a motion.

44:02>> Mr. Chairman, I'll make a motion to give

44:05Kennedy Place phase [clears throat] 2 a

44:07two-month extension. Second. A

44:10>> motion and a second. Any further

44:12discussion on this matter?

44:15All in favor raise your hand. opposed.

44:17There are none. So, we appreciate you uh

44:21giving this some additional

44:22consideration.

44:24>> Thank you very much.

44:25>> We'll probably never know, but there may

44:26be some home homeowners that are

44:28thankful for that somewhere down the

44:30road.

44:32>> Okay. All right.

44:33>> Thank you.

44:33>> Thank you.

44:39[clears throat]

44:40>> All right.

44:42Okay.

44:46The next item on our agenda is a text

44:49amendment.

44:51And um

44:53I know that there may be um someone

44:57there may be board member or two that

44:59wants to make some comments. I may make

45:00some comments before we get started. Um

45:03but uh

45:05let me let me just say this. Um

45:10we we are certainly aware of the

45:14uh interest the extraordinary interest

45:16there there is in this subject. Um

45:21again I I want uh each person here to

45:24understand that we are a recommending

45:27board. We're a technical committee in

45:29that we deal primarily with planning and

45:32zoning issues. we um determine if land

45:36use um uses are appropriate where

45:40they're at and things of that nature. Um

45:43in the sense that we're recommending

45:45board is that we make recommendations to

45:48the county commission. In this case,

45:51they've asked for our recommendations

45:54on potential amendments to our

45:56ordinance.

45:58So,

46:00in effect, that's all we're going to do

46:01tonight. We're gonna you're going to get

46:03to observe us sitting here trying to

46:06hammer out some

46:09ideas about what we think would be good

46:12regulations and guard rails to put in

46:14place.

46:16Um

46:18I also know that

46:21um for some folks they would just they

46:24would just be happy if we said let's

46:26don't have any data centers. End of

46:29story. And that's just not possible. Um,

46:33I will say that right now if a data

46:37center came to us to be permitted

46:39because we don't have specifics and Lee

46:43correct me if I'm wrong, but because we

46:46don't have those specifically listed in

46:48our table of uses,

46:51the planning department would have to

46:53make a determination of a similar use

46:56that is existing in the regulations and

46:59apply those regulations to the data

47:01centers.

47:03So, we want to establish some rules that

47:06are specific to it to uh I say to it to

47:10them. And so, that's what we're we're

47:13going to be trying to do tonight. Um

47:17we're going to allow a period before we

47:20begin for public comment. Um that is not

47:24ordinarily something that happens. It's

47:26not required, but we know that people

47:29are interested and so we're going to

47:31give you an opportunity to speak. Uh,

47:33and I [clears throat] would just ask

47:34that you be concise

47:36uh, in the things that you have to say,

47:39but I would ask if there's anybody else

47:41that wants to make any comments before

47:44we start.

47:46Mr. Mr. Chairman, I'd like to make a

47:47brief comment that um

47:51I hope we're all open to learning as

47:54much as we can about it and

47:55understanding

47:57uh [snorts] that

48:01our county can't

48:03control

48:05the roads.

48:07That's a DOT issue. We can't control the

48:11water.

48:13uh [snorts] we can mitigate some sound

48:16issues.

48:18Um that's a fact. But I also like to the

48:22the public and everybody to understand

48:25that we don't take these things lightly.

48:28That data centers provide a huge amount

48:31of revenue to any county that they land

48:35in. And no, money is not everything, but

48:38it does have a substantial impact.

48:42Our

48:44property tax base is what somewhere

48:45around 95 hundred million dollars. A

48:49data center could potentially provide

48:51half of that. Okay. We all want new

48:54schools. We all want uh uh more

48:59deputies. Uh the sheriff wants better

49:02equipment. Sometimes this is how

49:05those obstacles are accomplished. So we

49:09haven't made up a mind our mind. We

49:11don't know. We're we're we're in the

49:13very infant stages of this. So, we just

49:16ask everybody to be mindful of the

49:19potential impact that this may or may

49:22not have for our county. If if data

49:25centers land everywhere around us, can

49:28you imagine what that does to our

49:30employee base? All of our residents are

49:33going to go to the adjacent counties to

49:35work because they're going to be able to

49:37provide better salaries.

49:39uh it it will be hard for teachers, it

49:41will be hard for the sheriff, it will be

49:42hard harder for the EMS to find

49:46qualified employment. So that is a

49:48concern. It's a concern that we have to

49:50weigh in addition to these tax

49:52amendments. So I just ask going forward

49:55in this meeting and every meeting that

49:56comes after this that everybody's

50:00kind and and respectful to the decisions

50:03that has to be made. Uh because we're

50:06just up here doing our best. Uh we're

50:08trying to do what's best for our county

50:10and for future generations. And that's

50:11really all I wanted to say.

50:14>> Thank you, Ted.

50:17Anyone else?

50:21Okay. Um

50:23at this time um what what we want to do

50:27is open the floor for comments on

50:31uh the work that we're going to proceed

50:32with which is the um establishment of

50:36some standards or amendments to our

50:39zoning ordinance regarding data centers.

50:42Um

50:44if you have if you had the packet, you

50:47would see kind of the parameters that

50:49we're going to work with. Um,

50:53and and I I I want to share this

50:56beforehand

50:58just so that

51:00you'll know that this is what we're

51:01looking at.

51:03Um,

51:05one thing has to do with the table of

51:08permitted uses. I don't know if you can

51:11Can that go up on the I

51:12>> I've got it in the

51:13>> Okay.

51:14>> Yeah. And you're going to do a we're

51:16going to do an extensive walk through

51:18the whole document with the board.

51:20>> Okay. Do you would it be better for you

51:23to present that or or and then have

51:24public comment or or

51:26>> Well, I did receive some comment earlier

51:29this evening that some folks are

51:31unfamiliar with it and they would like

51:33to for us to go through it so that they

51:36could potentially make comment on it

51:38maybe afterwards.

51:39>> That that makes that's is that amanable

51:41to everyone? That makes perfectly good

51:42sense to me that we will go through the

51:45document first and then once everyone

51:48hears what's proposed. This has been

51:51online for for about a week on on our

51:53website. But then once once we go

51:55through the document, which will take a

51:57little bit of time, um then the public

52:00comment may be after that

52:02>> and then we'll just then then we'll

52:04start working through each item to um

52:08then to fill in the blanks, so to speak.

52:10>> Ask a question. Yes.

52:11>> I have some specific things that like

52:13weren't included that could kind of

52:15maybe fit in with your I would like to

52:17kind of know speak about those so that

52:19they can be addressed.

52:21>> What what I would ask you to do

52:23>> what I would ask you to do is maybe

52:24bring those up after we've looked at

52:26everything and we'll take notes uh

52:29because we're going to probably be

52:30debating quite a few different topics.

52:33>> I think a should be part of that debate.

52:37Well, we can we we won't vote on

52:40anything until we hear public comment.

52:44>> Yeah,

52:45>> I just wanted a response to my comment.

52:48So,

52:49>> that's okay.

52:53>> Um yeah, Lee, you're right. We do need

52:56to have you to kind of tee this up for

52:59us and I I won't proceed with going

53:01through um the various items that I'm

53:04seeing here in our packet. You'll be

53:06doing that.

53:07>> I will.

53:07>> Um

53:11Okay. I was going to walk through the

53:12entire document with the board.

53:15>> All right. First, I'd like to read the

53:16legal end of the record. Um we have a

53:18request by the Davidson County Board of

53:20Commissioners to amend the Davidson

53:21County Zoning Ordinance by adding,

53:23defining, and regulating the use of data

53:25center. Set amendment may amend article

53:283 permitted and conditional zoning

53:30district section 3.9 table permitted

53:33uses article article 5 special uses

53:36section 5.9 requirements for individual

53:39special uses article six development

53:42standards section 6.1 standards for

53:45permitted uses and article 9 definitions

53:49by defining data center or data center

53:51types. Other zoning ordinance articles

53:54and sections may be amended beyond the

53:56one cited. Um there's the legal. Um this

54:01this is as as the uh chair very

54:04eloquently spoke a lot of interest with

54:07this topic and no one on staff is a data

54:11center expert. But yet we're tasked with

54:14trying to put a set of regulations in

54:16place that can responsibly

54:20regulate the effects that these

54:23facilities can have. Um we we are

54:28parameters we are not going to reach or

54:32overreach into any utility. The water

54:36companies

54:37they'll regulate water use. The utility

54:40companies they'll regulate power use. Um

54:44as as the chair spoke earlier we can

54:48work on the effects that these

54:50facilities have. setbacks, lot sizes,

54:54buffers, BMS, those types of amenities

54:56to to u and we've proposed some things

54:59in the document. Um we've set a we set

55:02kind of a decibel an initial

55:06not a request but but just to start off

55:08at 55 dB at property line. Has anybody

55:12on the board been to a data center?

55:16So with with respect to 55 dB, no one

55:19really knows what a data center would

55:21sound like at that level, right? Is that

55:24fair to say? Well, I've got a

55:27demonstration uh that I wanted to show

55:29you guys. I've got some movies. Um I

55:32went to the go the Google data center in

55:35Lenor this past Sunday. Took my wife. We

55:38went up there looking at leaves and it

55:40cost me $130 because she had to go

55:43antiquing [laughter] and bought a number

55:46three wash tub and a and a rustic stand

55:48for it. But it it was worth it. Okay.

55:51Um, but I was able to go around the data

55:55center or the the campus that's up there

55:57and take I took our decibel level meter

56:01and and wanted to see for myself how

56:03loud these facilities are because you

56:05hear all kinds of things on the internet

56:07and I wanted to try to get factual

56:09evidence. Um, so

56:12>> can I ask you something about this,

56:13please?

56:13>> I can you make me Yes, sir. Or need to

56:17cut this. Out of curiosity, the data

56:20center that you went to, is it an

56:22average size, a small size, a large

56:24size?

56:24>> I'm going to go through all that

56:26>> I'll on on the uh on the overhead here.

56:30This is the Google data center in Lenor,

56:32North Carolina. This was initially

56:35started in 2008. Building one here at

56:39146,781

56:41square ft and building two which is this

56:45part of this structure at 190,219

56:50ft were built in 2009.

56:53They added on this building three right

56:56here in 2013 which is 415,555

57:01square ft. Then they have just recently

57:04finished building 4 right here which is

57:07an additional 295,324

57:11square ft. So there's a million uh

57:1547,879

57:17square ft in this data center uh campus.

57:21It's considered a a a hypers scale data

57:24center. So it's what we're talking

57:25about. Um,

57:28while I was up there, I took several

57:30different readings and I want I've got

57:32some videos I want to show the board for

57:36the audience. The TVs are turned up

57:38really loud. They're at 100. So, if it's

57:41loud, I we're not trying to hide

57:43anything. thing I want you to try to get

57:44at the scope and the scale of everything

57:46because we're trying to get honest

57:48information out so that the regulators

57:51or the folks that are making these

57:52decisions can because you've heard all

57:54kinds of things across the spectrum

57:56about what data centers sound like. Um

57:58and and a lot of that's got to do with

58:01equipment that we'll go into later on

58:03but uh because the equipment here um is

58:07a certain certain type.

58:10So, the first the first video that I'm

58:12taking is right here. You can barely see

58:14that little white dot right there.

58:16That's a carport. And there's a fence

58:18right there. Uh I'm standing right

58:21beside that carport, 526 ft from the

58:25cooling towers, direct line of sight.

58:28Now, at the end of this clip, a bus

58:31comes by. So, the decibel levels creep

58:33up a little bit towards the end. It's

58:35up. There's there was a gentleman

58:36driving that bus, Anthony High Totower.

58:39and he's contracted to move employees in

58:42and out of the facility. He he don't

58:44work for Google, but his his employee he

58:47moves employees in and out. Um, and had

58:50a had an interesting conversation with

58:51him.

59:26right there. The bus comes in.

59:29This second this second uh clip is a

59:32little bit longer and it was taken in

59:33the same exact location. I'm right here

59:36outside of buildings two and three,

59:39526 feet, excuse me, feet from the uh

59:42facility.

59:45The beeping noise is the bus backing up

59:48and you'll hear the air brakes go off

59:49about halfway through the movie. Then it

59:52settles down to the ambient level of the

59:54facility.

1:00:02Heat. Heat.

1:00:37It's probably

1:00:53so you can see roughly 53 to 54 dB. This

1:00:57is as close and as direct line of sight

1:00:59as I could get to the facility as you

1:01:01can see the fence right there.

1:01:05This next clip I moved down here to

1:01:08Virginia Street. The this used to be a

1:01:11through street. Lenor did a road closing

1:01:13and and DOT abandoned this rightway.

1:01:16Google took over the section right

1:01:17through here, but you could still get to

1:01:19this parking lot right here or before

1:01:21the gate. And that's where I'm standing

1:01:23for this next clip. I'm in between

1:01:26building four and I'm in and building

1:01:28three.

1:01:31>> Do you think that's further away from

1:01:33when you were before?

1:01:34>> It is. Uh 824 ft to building 3, 600 ft

1:01:39to building 4,

1:01:50but it's as close as I could get to the

1:01:52buildings with the with the fencing.

1:01:55Is that the property line?

1:01:58>> It's old rightway. So, yes, sir. Road

1:02:00right away.

1:02:01>> This is the back side of the new data

1:02:02center.

1:02:06That's the backside up there of

1:02:07[clears throat] the old data center.

1:02:09They just coned. I'm standing in between

1:02:12two.

1:02:17Right. There's the power system that

1:02:19feed both of them. I hear more than I

1:02:23hear.

1:02:25>> In fact, I couldn't hear the data

1:02:26centers at all right there.

1:02:28>> That was a question I was getting ready

1:02:29to have. How much of this at what decibb

1:02:32are we hearing this audio in here?

1:02:36>> Yeah. My dec.

1:02:41>> Yeah.

1:02:41>> So, that's the level that I encountered

1:02:44in the field.

1:02:46>> We can't judge that by the the TVs. I've

1:02:49got that turned up so everybody can

1:02:51hear.

1:02:52>> Yep.

1:02:52>> But you would say based off of hearing

1:02:55the audio in here that the actual sound

1:02:57out there is lower than what we're

1:02:59hearing.

1:02:59>> I I speak at about 70 dB.

1:03:01>> Yeah. Okay.

1:03:02>> My my voice carries at about 70 dB.

1:03:06[laughter]

1:03:08>> Lee, do you know if um they were in

1:03:12normal operations at the time you were

1:03:14there?

1:03:14>> It's 247 facility. They're running all

1:03:17the time. Were they were they using any

1:03:19auxiliary power by chance?

1:03:21>> They were not. They were not. Okay.

1:03:23>> Um and that's another issue that we

1:03:25we'll discuss.

1:03:27>> What is 50 dB compared to in the

1:03:29everyday world where there's not a data

1:03:31center? What what what is that? Is that

1:03:33a

1:03:33>> refrigerator?

1:03:35>> Okay.

1:03:37>> Roughly that

1:03:39>> for for instance.

1:03:41So audience will know the other day when

1:03:43you checked when we went on that tour

1:03:46just the normal sound was what 46

1:03:52close to 50.

1:03:52>> No that that was the um what what um

1:03:56>> when we were standing out there to

1:03:57>> Mr. Hayworth was talking about is we

1:03:59took a trip to Huntersville to a a

1:04:01Piedmont LNG facility to see that that

1:04:04operation and I took my decibel meter

1:04:07with me there too. Right outside the

1:04:09first gate we have we had 48 dB. Now

1:04:13they were not their process wasn't

1:04:15taking place. They said it did get a

1:04:17little bit louder when their process is

1:04:20taking place, but that was not happening

1:04:21at the time. But 48 48 dB. Ambient

1:04:25ambient sound changes with the seasons.

1:04:28Uh because it just you can go out in the

1:04:30summertime and with tree frogs, you

1:04:32won't get under 50 dB. You'll have 53 54

1:04:35dB at night. Uh you go in the fall or

1:04:38the winter when it's a little bit

1:04:40quieter, you can get down in the low 40s

1:04:42for ambient ambient levels of sound.

1:04:46So,

1:04:46>> I think that's good for everybody to

1:04:49know is what the difference is between

1:04:52just normal sound when you're outside

1:04:54versus what you're hearing there when

1:04:57you stand outside,

1:04:58>> right? But for a regulatory state, we

1:05:01need something quantitative and

1:05:03objective that we can measure. And

1:05:05that's why we're we're looking at we're

1:05:07fishing for that decibel level.

1:05:09>> I mean, for what it's worth, the area

1:05:12that you showed us on the aerial view

1:05:14>> Mhm. It'll look completely industrial. I

1:05:17didn't see much residential around

1:05:18there.

1:05:18>> I the um

1:05:21there is

1:05:23>> I think that's important when we think

1:05:25about these things.

1:05:25>> There's a residential There's a house

1:05:27right here. There's a house right here,

1:05:29>> here. All down uh this street right

1:05:33here. There are houses.

1:05:34>> Okay.

1:05:35>> There's a lot of residential stuff all

1:05:36through here. Uh all up through here. So

1:05:40yeah, there there there are houses all

1:05:42through this street, too. any chance you

1:05:45talk to any of those guys?

1:05:46>> I tried to um that there was a a Door

1:05:49Dash person right here across from the

1:05:52driveway. I pulled in behind them and

1:05:55asked her if she lived there and she

1:05:57said no and she had left the food on the

1:06:00front porch. They were not home. So, I

1:06:03didn't get a chance to speak to them,

1:06:04but I I had a conversation with the

1:06:07gentleman driving the bus in that

1:06:10facility uh that that it's a open

1:06:12carport right there. metal carport and

1:06:15we talked at normal levels. The the you

1:06:18could hear the hum, but you didn't have

1:06:20to raise your voice in any way, shape,

1:06:22or form. I'm talking louder now than I

1:06:24was talking to him.

1:06:28>> Did they have any kind of buffer around

1:06:29the place? I ain't really

1:06:31>> going to go go into that, too. Yep.

1:06:33Because to answer your question, these

1:06:35facilities don't really have a buffer.

1:06:37The first three buildings, this one's

1:06:39got a set of BMS all the way around it.

1:06:42There's a 40ft burm here, a 40ft burm

1:06:45here. And if you'll look when I'm

1:06:47setting down here, if I can back, you

1:06:50can see the burm that I'm shooting into.

1:06:57So you you can see the burm right there.

1:07:01>> Those BMS do an amazing job of

1:07:04dissipating sound because the new 2026

1:07:07facility, that building forward, I was

1:07:09told is operational now. Um, and I'll

1:07:12show you a couple other places. I

1:07:14stopped in close proximity and you can't

1:07:16even hear any of it. That's really

1:07:18really close by.

1:07:20>> The the electrical part that you showed

1:07:22us. How how big an area is that?

1:07:25>> This is the back side of the new data

1:07:27center.

1:07:28>> The electrical uh the substations.

1:07:31>> Yeah.

1:07:32>> Uh Duke Power owns. That's probably I

1:07:34didn't look that up, Ted. That's

1:07:36probably 20 acres, 30 acres maybe.

1:07:38>> Okay. Duke Power Fee Simple owns that

1:07:40property in between what Google owns.

1:07:43But to to to talk to you a little bit

1:07:45about I stopped right here at this store

1:07:47at this intersection,

1:07:49Big BM right there. You couldn't hear

1:07:51the data center at all.

1:07:53>> Um stopped right down here at this

1:07:55business. Couldn't hear the data center

1:07:57at all. And the these roads are

1:07:59secondary roads. They're up off of 18.

1:08:02I've got another video down here on 18

1:08:05that I'm going to show you here in just

1:08:06a second. And it um

1:08:10these are quiet streets. These are quiet

1:08:12streets that that I took those uh videos

1:08:15on.

1:08:17Lee, um looking at that aerial, there's

1:08:22whichever building you want to pick, the

1:08:23small one at the top or the the much

1:08:25larger one or the two larger ones where

1:08:28the red dots at the the apparatus on

1:08:34each side of those buildings. Is that

1:08:36all a auxiliary power? Is that what that

1:08:38is?

1:08:39>> No, sir. It looked and I'm not I'm not

1:08:42an expert. It looked like the auxiliary

1:08:44power for building three was here.

1:08:47These are cooling towers.

1:08:49>> Okay.

1:08:49>> That's what makes your normal noise.

1:08:52>> Now, I think they're required by state

1:08:53law to run their auxiliary power for

1:08:56like 30 minutes once a month. U now

1:08:59obviously if if power went out to the

1:09:01facility, that's going to crank up and

1:09:03it's going to be loud. It's going to be

1:09:04louder. you got diesel generators

1:09:06running, but under normal operation,

1:09:09under normal circumstances, that's the

1:09:11sound that you'd hear. That's a good

1:09:13representation of what you would hear.

1:09:16>> Okay. Thank you.

1:09:17>> And and the cooling towers on this one

1:09:21uh were back here on this side and the

1:09:24cooling towers on this one are on this

1:09:26side. Now, I this last video I'm about

1:09:29um 587

1:09:31feet. There's a little there's an

1:09:34abandoned uh service station right there

1:09:37and there's a cherry tree and I'm

1:09:38standing right in front of the cherry

1:09:39tree. Now I can't get down to ambient

1:09:42level because the car is passing but it

1:09:45look it gets down quite just a little

1:09:47bit about 54 dB.

1:09:58Everybody knows what those crickets

1:10:00sound like. So you can kind of gauge it

1:10:02by that

1:10:11voice.

1:10:19It's amazing.

1:10:51Don't do that.

1:10:53You know what I'm saying?

1:10:55more.

1:10:57>> As you can see, the passing cars will

1:11:00not let the

1:11:02sound reading get down to the base

1:11:04ambient level from the back from the

1:11:06Google data center.

1:11:12Looks like the ambient sound coming off

1:11:14the data center is around a 53 or 54.

1:11:23Okay.

1:11:23>> So, that that's basically everything I

1:11:25wanted to show you. Do you guys have any

1:11:27questions about that? And the closest I

1:11:30got to the facility was 526

1:11:33ft. Never got over a 54 decel that we

1:11:37could tell from the facility.

1:11:40Um,

1:11:43there there it is to digest.

1:11:49>> [clears throat]

1:11:52>> we ready to move move forward? I

1:11:54>> I think so. Um

1:11:59Mr. Chairman, if I may briefly important

1:12:01point about these readings um and and

1:12:04Mr. Cook can further explain this, but

1:12:05but that um decel meter we use in court.

1:12:11So, if there's a if the countyy's

1:12:13enforcing, you know, we don't have a

1:12:14noise ordinance in the county, but if

1:12:15we're enforcing a noise regulation, we'd

1:12:18have a few in our ordinance, that's the

1:12:20that's the thing we're going to use. So,

1:12:22it's not and I have plenty of neat

1:12:24things on my phone, too, but but it's

1:12:26not, you know, if I'm, you know, my

1:12:29doctor doesn't take my blood pressure

1:12:31using my phone. They have their

1:12:32equipment. Right.

1:12:33>> Right.

1:12:33>> Not that this can't be useful, but but

1:12:36we're not going to make diagnostic

1:12:37decisions on my phone. Likewise, this is

1:12:40a a a $600 700 piece of equipment

1:12:43designed for this,

1:12:44>> right?

1:12:45>> And it has a calibration tool with it.

1:12:47>> Y

1:12:47>> and we can calibrate it,

1:12:49>> right?

1:12:51>> Yeah. So, that's this should be solid

1:12:53information there. Good empirical

1:12:55evidence.

1:12:57Okay.

1:12:59So, um,

1:13:02yeah, we'll we'll take comments, but I I

1:13:05I think just before we get to that, we

1:13:08will then want to just go through this

1:13:11like we have in the past, just taking it

1:13:13one section at a time.

1:13:14>> I was going to start that right now

1:13:15unless we had any questions.

1:13:17>> So, okay. So, we want to do that and

1:13:20then take comments. Is that what you're

1:13:22telling me? I I think some of the folks

1:13:24would would prefer that because they're

1:13:26would like to get familiar with the

1:13:27language and and our discussion before

1:13:29they they bring up and then we'll we'll

1:13:32hear from them and and you know what

1:13:36you know reference the sections and that

1:13:38type of thing.

1:13:38>> Everybody here good with that?

1:13:40>> Yes, sir.

1:13:41>> Okay. Thank you. [clears throat]

1:13:44All right. Uh front page of the

1:13:46instructions, you know, all the text was

1:13:48highlighted in red. That's new. blue is

1:13:50what I kind of the blue text within

1:13:53there was kind of points I felt like we

1:13:55would debate there. That doesn't mean

1:13:57it's the only thing we can debate. This

1:13:58is just a first try uh at putting

1:14:02something in place. Um I've been taking

1:14:05direction from the BOC. There's no sense

1:14:07in getting off on tangents if they don't

1:14:10want to regulate something. So the

1:14:11document that's in front of you kind of

1:14:14has guard rails put in place by them.

1:14:17So, um, and then I I I did overlook and

1:14:22and added some text that's highlighted

1:14:24in yellow. That was after the original

1:14:26packet went out. I think Angela sent you

1:14:28folks a a second PDF with that in there.

1:14:32So, going to the first page, this shows

1:14:35our um our table of permitted uses, and

1:14:38we're adding five different types of

1:14:40data centers in the table of permitted

1:14:42uses. We would add data center edge,

1:14:46data center enterprise, data center

1:14:49colo, data center hypers scale and data

1:14:53center hypers scale AI. And those are

1:14:58in in trying to research this. I had a

1:15:00lot of help from Mr. Curry and he he's

1:15:03been invaluable in sending information

1:15:06and just citing his sources. He's not

1:15:08trying to say do it this way, do it that

1:15:10way. He's saying this is what it is and

1:15:12this is where I'm getting the

1:15:13information. He's been a tremendous help

1:15:15for me. Um but trying to get something

1:15:19for the county to regulate a hard line.

1:15:24These different these different types of

1:15:26data centers get fuzzy with respect to

1:15:30the potential impacts that they can

1:15:32have. Like a a data center enterprise is

1:15:36something that a single company owns.

1:15:38They own it. They own a facility. They

1:15:41they may have a service in there looking

1:15:44at their servers, but it's their

1:15:45building. It's their data. They're

1:15:47running the whole show.

1:15:50You get a colo data center, which is a

1:15:52third party that offers space for a

1:15:56company to do that. They can have

1:15:58multitude of companies in there.

1:16:00um hypers scale AI we just saw Google

1:16:04that's one thing but if you get a colo

1:16:06campus that can be as big as a small

1:16:09hypers scale

1:16:11>> so what we're trying to regulate are the

1:16:13impacts of these buildings the

1:16:14technology is kind of the same I I don't

1:16:17pretend to know the different chip types

1:16:20and there's all different nuances to the

1:16:22cooling systems there's some general

1:16:24rules that we'll talk about towards the

1:16:26end of this document um about high power

1:16:30versus high water, but the I don't

1:16:33pretend to know. So, for the purposes of

1:16:35the our ordinance, I'm trying to define

1:16:37something objective that we can draw a

1:16:40line at. So, I put next in here our

1:16:45definitions.

1:16:46>> Lee, just for

1:16:47>> I'm sorry. Go ahead.

1:16:48>> Just for clarity, those are standard

1:16:53terms. Those are standard recognized

1:16:55terms within the industry. If we say

1:16:58this is a data center, enterprise data

1:17:01center, it's not something that's up,

1:17:03it's all that debatable. I mean,

1:17:05>> correct. Okay. Correct.

1:17:08[snorts]

1:17:08>> That that is accurate.

1:17:11>> Cuz that there have been my son works at

1:17:14an enterprise data center on Solid

1:17:16Street Parkway. It's been there for

1:17:18years and years and years. not they're

1:17:21not high impact and they're not you know

1:17:23they don't use a whole lot of

1:17:24>> you know I've thought about that a lot

1:17:26since you shared that with us and and I

1:17:28know I know I'm certain that I have

1:17:30driven by it didn't even know it was

1:17:32there don't I don't know what it is it's

1:17:34just a building it's and there's a

1:17:35business going on in there but I have no

1:17:37idea what it is much like I mean many

1:17:40many other businesses I don't know

1:17:42what's going on in there so same way

1:17:44>> Sure

1:17:47go ahead

1:17:48>> okay all right so We proposing to define

1:17:51data center edge a small decentralized

1:17:54facility located close to endusers or

1:17:57data sources to process information and

1:18:00cache content locally. These facilities

1:18:02shall use under 5 megawatts of power or

1:18:05less for the purposes of these or for

1:18:07this ordinance. So you've got a general

1:18:10description what it is, but then you've

1:18:11got a line that we can regulate.

1:18:14>> Yeah.

1:18:15>> Um any questions on that? the the five

1:18:17megawws is is you know we can move that

1:18:21up, we could move it down if that's too

1:18:23much power or you think it's too much

1:18:25power. Um Tavis sent me a document that

1:18:29shows maybe two megawatts of power.

1:18:31That's still a good amount of power and

1:18:33and a lot of these facilities stay in

1:18:35the kilowatt range. So they're they're

1:18:37less than than the megawatt but u for

1:18:40this for purposes right now I'll move

1:18:42forward unless you folks stop me with a

1:18:44question. Data Center Enterprise, a

1:18:47dedicated physical facility owned and

1:18:49operated by a single organization to

1:18:51house its internal IT infrastructure,

1:18:54computing systems, and critical business

1:18:56application. These facilities shall be

1:18:59between 5 and 20 megawatts of power or

1:19:01less for the purposes of this ordinance.

1:19:06Next classification, if you'll turn the

1:19:09page,

1:19:10um, data center colo, a third party

1:19:13facility where businesses rent physical

1:19:15space to house their own servers and IT

1:19:18hardware. These facilities shall use

1:19:20between 20 and 100 megawatts of power

1:19:23for the purposes of this ordinance.

1:19:26Next classification, data center hypers

1:19:29scale, which is what we looked at with

1:19:30Google. a massive digital infrastructure

1:19:33facility engineered to provide extreme

1:19:35scalability, high performance computing

1:19:38and massive data storage for large-scale

1:19:40workloads. These facilities shall use

1:19:43over 100 megawatts of power for the

1:19:45purposes of this ordinance.

1:19:48That facility uses I think 170 megawatts

1:19:50of power. the one we looked at with

1:19:53Google

1:19:54um data center. Then the last

1:19:57classification is data center hypers

1:19:59scale AI. A massive highly scalable

1:20:02facility specifically engineered to

1:20:04provide the extreme computing power,

1:20:06highdensity storage and low latency

1:20:09networking required to train and run

1:20:12complex artificial intelligent models.

1:20:15These facilities shall use over 100

1:20:17megawatts of power for the purposes of

1:20:19this ordinance. Any

1:20:22questions about those classifications

1:20:25>> as we move through?

1:20:26>> I I've got a I guess it's a question and

1:20:29I don't want to get into Andrew's

1:20:31business here too much, but ordinarily

1:20:33when we see the word shall, it means

1:20:35must when we're talking about ordinances

1:20:37and definitions and I'm just wondering

1:20:39if that's the right expression for that

1:20:41or or do we want to should that have say

1:20:45up to 100 megawws

1:20:49>> or at least

1:20:49>> over You could do exceeds. I mean, we

1:20:52could you could change it. I mean,

1:20:54>> typically exceeds.

1:20:55>> Yeah. Or generally exceeds. I mean, we

1:20:57could Yeah,

1:20:58>> we could massage that for sure.

1:20:59>> Yep. Well, I just think that again, I

1:21:01don't want to get too much into

1:21:02semantics, but it

1:21:06I didn't think we want to nail it down

1:21:08by saying it must way it reads, it could

1:21:10be interpreted to say it must be 100

1:21:12megawatts or whatever. So,

1:21:16>> yeah. Well, that those are that was an

1:21:18attempt to provide hard lines for us to

1:21:20have categories.

1:21:22That that was the uh the purpose for the

1:21:24SHA and I was cognizant of that when I

1:21:27wrote that. The the SHA means if you're

1:21:30over 100 megawws, you're a data center

1:21:32hypers scale or data center hypers scale

1:21:34AI and that's how we're going to

1:21:36regulate you.

1:21:37>> Okay? If you're if you're less than

1:21:40that, then you potentially collo or

1:21:44trying to provide an objective line in

1:21:47the sand for regulation.

1:21:49>> Okay, I understand that. I I think this

1:21:51the the wording kind of threw me off

1:21:53there.

1:21:54>> And we can we can massage that.

1:21:57>> Legal legal can handle that. Is is the

1:22:00industry such that there's a wide margin

1:22:03between

1:22:05the colo and the hypers scale AI? I mean

1:22:08is is it such that it's so noticeable it

1:22:11has to be the hypers I guess that's that

1:22:14that's the problem I ran into in trying

1:22:16to define it. A big colo can be bigger

1:22:19and use more power and have more cooling

1:22:22systems than a small hypers scale. Well,

1:22:24and I guess I I'm asking, could a data

1:22:27center hypers scale AI come in at 90

1:22:29megawatt?

1:22:31I

1:22:32>> mean, is that is it realistic? I guess

1:22:33>> potentially, but at 90 megawws, the

1:22:36cooling systems that they're going to be

1:22:38using will be comparable to a 90

1:22:40megawatt facility, which is what we're

1:22:42trying to regulate.

1:22:43>> Okay,

1:22:44>> that's that's kind of the scalability

1:22:46that I was looking for because we're

1:22:48looking at what kind of noise does it

1:22:50make? I just don't want you.

1:22:51>> If you're if you're a gig and you've got

1:22:54fans and cooling towers all the way

1:22:56around that thing, that's what we're

1:22:58trying to mitigate.

1:23:00>> A gig of power.

1:23:01>> Just thinking down the road if it if

1:23:03it's in between two categories. I want

1:23:05you to be able to choose.

1:23:06>> There is there is no in between.

1:23:08>> Okay. That's that's my question.

1:23:09>> By these the way they're the way they're

1:23:10proposed, there's no in between right

1:23:12now. And is

1:23:14is there a way to prove upfront when

1:23:16they apply for the permit how much power

1:23:19they're going to use because that would

1:23:21dictate I mean the part of the plan

1:23:24would have to be

1:23:27it just know you know we've told other

1:23:29applicants in zonings with conditional

1:23:31zonings and things that just know this

1:23:33is what you can do. If you plan to do

1:23:36more you need to go ahead now and apply

1:23:38for more because it'll be harder to get

1:23:40it later. So, it could be one of those

1:23:41things that any of these facilities come

1:23:43along that it if they're they're a 90

1:23:46megawatt colo, but they might scale up.

1:23:50Well, it's not far before they've

1:23:51tripped over into a whole different

1:23:53category and requires a different

1:23:54permit. The approval process is the

1:23:56same.

1:23:57>> Okay.

1:23:58>> Uh and number nine on submittals as

1:24:00proposed certification how much power

1:24:01the proposed data center facility will

1:24:04use upon completion.

1:24:07That's one of the submitts that they

1:24:08would have to to give us for that

1:24:10process.

1:24:13>> It's a pricey

1:24:15item when they when they make those

1:24:17applications to to the power company. So

1:24:19>> they Yeah. But at at and and Mr. corers

1:24:23in the office and he was gracious enough

1:24:25to share with me the large load users

1:24:29process with Duke and we found out the

1:24:31commissioners had a a workshop on power

1:24:35at theirformational meeting and Energy

1:24:37United has a similar process where you

1:24:40get north of 100 megawws.

1:24:42You've got to put up some money to do

1:24:44that. You've got to not only give them

1:24:47$120,000 for a study that their

1:24:50engineers do, takes three months, then

1:24:52they come back saying how much we can

1:24:54give you when and and what it'll cost.

1:24:57You got 30 days to to think about that.

1:25:00If you say yes, you've got to put up 90%

1:25:02of the infrastructure build cost,

1:25:04non-interest earning, but refundable if

1:25:08the project doesn't go through. So, uh,

1:25:11the these facilities are exceptionally

1:25:14lucrative and and um I don't I I'm not

1:25:17part of that industry, but I I think

1:25:20they're probably used to seeing these

1:25:22type of certifications and requirements.

1:25:27Yeah. Yeah. The kind of fees that

1:25:29they're having to pay when they get to

1:25:30that point, it's it's not going to be

1:25:32highly speculative, I wouldn't think.

1:25:34May maybe there is, but they're they're

1:25:36playing they're playing with some big

1:25:38money when they're doing that.

1:25:40Absolutely.

1:25:42Um, so any more questions about the

1:25:45classification or do we want to move

1:25:47some of these things? And and again, I'm

1:25:49not the expert. I'm just trying to get

1:25:50something. I'm coming at it from a

1:25:52regulatory side. I'd rather be more

1:25:55accurate on the regulatory side

1:25:58as opposed to being accurate on the

1:26:01industry side.

1:26:02>> You know, it because what causes the

1:26:05impact that we're trying to regulate?

1:26:07That's power usage.

1:26:10That's the more power you use, the more

1:26:12cooling facilities you have, the more

1:26:14noise you make.

1:26:16>> So, that's kind of the mindset that I

1:26:17came at it from. And I I'm not

1:26:19infallible. If somebody disagrees with

1:26:21that, then, you know, that's we can we

1:26:24can talk that out. Just just for

1:26:27clarity, it it's not so much that we're

1:26:29trying to lock down a well, we are

1:26:32trying to lock down a power number, a a

1:26:35megawatt number, but it's it's because

1:26:38of the cooling that's necessarily what

1:26:41for that tells us what the cooling is

1:26:44going to be basically. Is that power

1:26:46usage? Yes. And so and like you said

1:26:48that's that's what has the noise impact

1:26:52that we want to

1:26:53>> correct

1:26:54>> try to affect

1:26:54>> that there and and cooling is an in and

1:26:57above itself an enigma as well there

1:27:00there's kind of a rule of thumb scale

1:27:02with cooling of these facilities. You've

1:27:04got high energy

1:27:07low water usage on one side of the

1:27:09scale. You've got low energy high water

1:27:13usage on the other side of the scale.

1:27:15the low energy, high water usage are the

1:27:18quieter facilities because they don't

1:27:20have as many fans running.

1:27:23>> If you've got a dual closed loop system

1:27:24and you're not losing evaporative

1:27:26cooling, you're not using that natural

1:27:28cooling device that nature provides

1:27:32those you have to run more fans to cool

1:27:34it off. So the the true closed loop

1:27:37stuff is going to be noisier than what

1:27:40we were listening to at Google. These

1:27:42are these are evaporative cooling

1:27:45towers. They they have tremendous water

1:27:48bill up here. Um they they use a lot of

1:27:51water at this facility.

1:27:54>> How much?

1:27:55>> I I don't know. Honestly don't know.

1:27:58It's it's a lot of water. I know the

1:28:00city of Lenor gets their uh water from

1:28:04Lake Rous on the Kataba River and

1:28:07they're allowed to to create 13,000

1:28:11portable gallons of water a day.

1:28:14>> How much goes back in? Do you know any?

1:28:18>> No. That it evaporates off.

1:28:22>> For this facility that we looked at,

1:28:23it's evaporative cooling. Do

1:28:25>> you know how much Davidson water pulls?

1:28:2727,000 gallons a day.

1:28:29>> Over twice as much as what they pull.

1:28:32>> You sure it's gallons or is it cubic

1:28:34feet?

1:28:36>> The GDP I think's on the front page of

1:28:38their website.

1:28:39>> Okay.

1:28:40>> Gallons per day.

1:28:41>> Okay.

1:28:41>> Is my understanding.

1:28:42>> Usually when they're talking about big

1:28:44quantities, they talk about cubic feet.

1:28:45That's the only reason I

1:28:46>> And if I mis if I mislooked at it, I I

1:28:49apologize, but I I

1:28:51>> I interpret it as gallons per day.

1:28:54>> DPD is G. That's what it is.

1:28:55>> Yes, sir. Yep. I think that's right.

1:28:58Okay. Any

1:29:02anything else on the classification side

1:29:04of it?

1:29:07Moving on.

1:29:09>> Okay.

1:29:10>> All right. What we flipping back to

1:29:15the table of permitted uses, you'll see

1:29:18some X's and some SAS. These smaller

1:29:21edge and enterprise data centers were

1:29:23initially proposing that they're allowed

1:29:25by right in any commercial or industrial

1:29:30classification.

1:29:32Um they're small, they're not high power

1:29:34users, like you said, the one on in

1:29:36Winston, it's been there for 30 years

1:29:38and never knew it was there. Um, so they

1:29:41would be allowed by right unless you

1:29:43want to put a D in there that requires a

1:29:45development standard that requires them

1:29:47to submit how much power they're going

1:29:49to use, but it's beneficial to them to

1:29:52supply that. So they know that they meet

1:29:55our definition for under a colo because

1:29:58at at the colo data center scale we're

1:30:00going to ask them to do a special use

1:30:02class A which is what we're getting

1:30:04ready to go through and and we've

1:30:06proposed it initially here tonight at

1:30:08LIHI

1:30:09and MXC which is mixeduse commercial and

1:30:12our PEC which is a planned employment

1:30:15center. Those are the four places we

1:30:17propose a special use class A for the

1:30:19colo data center. Any any questions on

1:30:22that?

1:30:26[clears throat]

1:30:27The um the hypers scale we're proposing

1:30:30same process special use class A only in

1:30:33hi and only in PEC

1:30:37and same same for the hypers scale uh I

1:30:41may said AI hypers scale AI and hypers

1:30:43scale would have the same same process.

1:30:50Yep.

1:30:53>> Seems reasonable to me. Anybody have any

1:30:55thoughts on that?

1:30:56>> No, sounds good.

1:30:58>> Okay. Um moving I will ask this PEC. Do

1:31:03we have some PEC's?

1:31:06>> None of that exists in the county. It

1:31:08exists in the ordinance. That's where if

1:31:11you wanted to do a a large planned

1:31:13business center or business park, you

1:31:14would reszone it to that. You got to do

1:31:16a whole lot of work on the front end.

1:31:18The planned employment center is what

1:31:20that's called. We have not had any

1:31:22applicants take advantage of that.

1:31:26Is it

1:31:29I mean these things aren't known for

1:31:30employing a lot of people for

1:31:32>> they're not for the size. So could it

1:31:35are there minimum requirements of

1:31:37employees that have a number of

1:31:39employees to qualify as a PEC?

1:31:42>> No sir.

1:31:42>> Okay.

1:31:43>> No sir.

1:31:44>> I knew I hadn't seen one.

1:31:46>> No, you're right. I was like, "What is a

1:31:48PC?"

1:31:48>> That that's a student because we we

1:31:50don't that district doesn't exist in in

1:31:53Davidson County. It's just in the

1:31:55ordinance.

1:31:55>> Okay.

1:31:56>> Somebody could choose to do that.

1:31:58>> Okay.

1:32:00>> Um if we go to the front page of our

1:32:02special use permit as proposed, it's got

1:32:05data center at the top. It's got allowed

1:32:08districts, LIH, IMXC, and PEC.

1:32:12It's got approved by the governing body.

1:32:14That's a class A special use permit. So

1:32:17that means someone seeking this would

1:32:20have to either get one of those zoning

1:32:23classifications

1:32:24and

1:32:26apply and successfully get this special

1:32:28use permit approved by the board of

1:32:31commissioners.

1:32:32Um right below that we got minimum lot

1:32:35size. Um most of these put governed by

1:32:39the zoning district, but I've got

1:32:42underlined there. We want a minimum lot

1:32:44size. The the two buildings, buildings

1:32:481, 2, and three of the Google data

1:32:50center are on 175 acre track. Building

1:32:53four is on a 54 acre track. The closest

1:32:57any of those buildings are to the

1:32:59property line is 200 ft. Uh but that's

1:33:03adjoining building three is about 200

1:33:06foot from the Duke Power. It's not a

1:33:09residential property. It's the Duke

1:33:10Power substation.

1:33:12Um, most of the other stuff is much

1:33:16further away than that. And we'll get

1:33:18into setbacks in a little bit here

1:33:20because if you say you got to have 500t

1:33:24setback,

1:33:26that would dictate the size of the lot.

1:33:28You got to take that uh let's see 500 by

1:33:32500 is what 7 8 acre track or and then

1:33:35you add the building size to it. So that

1:33:38that would be the acreage requirement.

1:33:41Um,

1:33:43so be thinking about do we want to set a

1:33:45minimum lot size

1:33:48or do we just let the setbacks, you

1:33:50know, dictate that? Because the way the

1:33:52setbacks are proposed, and we'll get

1:33:54into that here in a little bit, I've got

1:33:56200 foot from any property line, 500T

1:34:01from any residential or agricultural

1:34:04property line, and I've got a,000 ft to

1:34:07any property line that has u a school, a

1:34:13church, a care facility, anything like

1:34:17that. And like I said, that's it's open

1:34:19to negotiation. and we'll get into that

1:34:22section here in a little bit. But, uh,

1:34:24if if want to move on, we'll I'll I'll

1:34:27start talking about the submittals.

1:34:30All right. To to submit for this special

1:34:32use permit, there are nine that we've

1:34:33cited. Uh, number one, a site plan

1:34:36showing size and location of all

1:34:37proposed buildings and structures,

1:34:39parking, emergency or supplemental power

1:34:41generation facilities, and all other

1:34:43improvements proposed to be located on

1:34:45the property. Number two, a sound study

1:34:48by an accredited professional in the

1:34:50study of acoustics showing compliance

1:34:52with the sound levels set herein. Number

1:34:55three, a landscaping and buffering plan

1:34:58that shows compliance with the

1:34:59landscaping and buffering requirements

1:35:01set herein.

1:35:03Four, an exterior lighting plan that

1:35:05shows compliance with the lighting

1:35:06standards set herein.

1:35:09Number five, emergency operations plan.

1:35:12Number six, vibration impact study

1:35:14prepared by a qualified professional

1:35:17showing compliance with the vibration

1:35:19standards set herein.

1:35:21Decommissioning plan and financial

1:35:23assurance would have to be submitted.

1:35:27Eight, a North Carolina DOT commercial

1:35:29driveway permit would have to be

1:35:31submitted. And number nine, a

1:35:33certification of how much power the

1:35:34proposed data facility center facility

1:35:36would use upon completion.

1:35:39Any

1:35:41comments on the submittals?

1:35:43>> Lee, your your item seven, financial

1:35:47assurance. Is that financial assurance

1:35:49with decommissioning or just operation

1:35:52the ability to operate?

1:35:53>> It's it's pointed towards

1:35:54decommissioning

1:35:55>> so that they can afford to kill it off

1:35:58to.

1:35:59>> Okay. Yeah.

1:36:00>> Trying to make sure.

1:36:01>> Y understand. Y

1:36:02>> and I and I've got some feedback from

1:36:04the board on that that they they may not

1:36:06want a bond and they may not want a

1:36:08letter of credit. they may want money.

1:36:10>> So, um that that's something that can be

1:36:13be hashed out, but we'll get into that

1:36:16when we get into the meat and potatoes

1:36:18unless there's further questions.

1:36:23[clears throat]

1:36:23>> Would um

1:36:25would an environmental impact statement

1:36:27be appropriate in a situation like this?

1:36:30>> That that has to be submitted to DEEQ

1:36:32anyways.

1:36:36>> Okay. we that that's going to be a

1:36:38requirement that I mean a facility of

1:36:40this size they're going to have to do an

1:36:41environmental impact and and all of

1:36:44those things regardless

1:36:47[laughter]

1:36:48>> if we

1:36:50I mean that state's got to sign off on

1:36:53it but would it be beneficial for us to

1:36:54have it too

1:36:57well we we could put that in there but

1:36:59just successful application and

1:37:01completion of that when

1:37:05I'm when we get we get into a situation

1:37:09where

1:37:12like for the um

1:37:15for the wreck facility in South M we had

1:37:17to do all those things those were done

1:37:19before before we broke ground

1:37:23um and that we didn't have any

1:37:26regulation speaking to it but it had it

1:37:29had to take place now we do have

1:37:31regulations speaking to it and we did

1:37:32put it in there so um we we could add

1:37:35that to it if you wanted to.

1:37:38>> But my thought is dealing with DEQ quite

1:37:41a bit like we do that's a substantial

1:37:45amount of money to spend prior to a

1:37:47reszoning.

1:37:50Now I know with these data centers that

1:37:52may not really matter but that is

1:37:53there's a lot of engineering you also

1:37:55sometimes DEEQ can will take anywhere

1:37:58from 3 to 8 months to get back to you on

1:38:00approval.

1:38:02Um just taking that into consideration

1:38:05that the process is pretty cumbersome.

1:38:09So So the um it's still required before

1:38:13they get a permit,

1:38:14>> but but not necessarily before they get

1:38:16a zoning permit. So I I get what you're

1:38:18saying. local local uh local zoning

1:38:21approval usually is a first step

1:38:24>> in in a lot of a lot of these larger

1:38:26processes and they have to go through

1:38:28those other processes in order to

1:38:31complete the project. Your Army Corps if

1:38:33that's involved, environmental

1:38:35assessment, wetland study, all of these

1:38:38things.

1:38:41[snorts]

1:38:42>> Okay. Anybody else got any questions?

1:38:46>> All right. All right. Uh, moving down

1:38:50into standards,

1:38:53which is misspelled. [laughter]

1:38:57Um,

1:38:59A is sound levels. Um, and we've got

1:39:02number one.

1:39:04Let's see. Back up a line.

1:39:07All data center facilities and

1:39:09associated power generation equipment

1:39:11shall be engineered to always maintain a

1:39:14maximum noise threshold of 55 dB or less

1:39:17as measured at the lot lines. In

1:39:20addition, the C- weighted sound level

1:39:22measurement concurrently shall not

1:39:24exceed the Aweed level by more than 20

1:39:27dB. Um, for those that aren't familiar

1:39:30with the C- weighted level, the A the

1:39:32Awe is audible hearing range of humans

1:39:36that le that measures the decibel levels

1:39:38of what we can hear. C-rated goes above

1:39:41and beyond below the frequencies that we

1:39:44can hear. Gets into vibration a little

1:39:46bit and gets into um infrasound and

1:39:49things like that.

1:39:52[snorts]

1:39:56good with 55 dB and the 20 decel

1:39:59deviation.

1:40:00You want to take take the C rating out.

1:40:03You want to

1:40:07>> I don't think it's realistic to go much

1:40:09lower than 55 based on what you shown in

1:40:12our videos.

1:40:13>> Yeah, I I would agree.

1:40:15>> Yep.

1:40:16>> I I was I was my personal opinion, I was

1:40:21shocked by how quiet that facility was.

1:40:24I mean, if you're if you're if you lived

1:40:28in the house across the street,

1:40:31uh you're going to hear a little hum,

1:40:33especially if it's quiet in the fall or

1:40:35or winter time. But you could have a

1:40:39normal conversation

1:40:41uh without any difficulty whatsoever

1:40:45in that person's front yard cuz I had

1:40:48one closer to the facility than that

1:40:50with the gentleman who drove the bus.

1:40:52And I I we're just talking just like

1:40:54this. I had no issues.

1:40:56>> Lee, one of the things that comes to

1:40:58mind, and I don't want to get off on a

1:40:59tangent, but you went to a Google

1:41:01facility that's got more money than the

1:41:03rest of the world. Um, you know, they've

1:41:06got the the biggest pocketbooks to put

1:41:10in the quietest

1:41:12uh uh cooling system that they make.

1:41:17Is it realistic that a smaller facility

1:41:20with maybe a company that doesn't have

1:41:23such deep pockets can't afford such a a

1:41:26quiet sound uh cooling system may run in

1:41:30excess of 55 just out of the ordinary

1:41:32course of business? Not much, but enough

1:41:35to throw them over. Is that a is is that

1:41:37a possibility? Is that a concern? Is

1:41:39that a a a

1:41:42factor that would not allow something to

1:41:45come here that maybe should or maybe

1:41:48should not?

1:41:48>> That would be a violation of the

1:41:50ordinance.

1:41:50>> I get that.

1:41:51>> And and u but we're coming at it from

1:41:54the position that we're trying to

1:41:56protect the people around the facility

1:41:59and um it doesn't matter. We we don't

1:42:02care what their pocketbook looks like.

1:42:04>> I understand that.

1:42:04>> We want them to be as quiet as what we

1:42:06whatever we adopt. Well, I would say

1:42:09even if they uh

1:42:12potentially can't afford maybe the

1:42:14mechanical equipment to be quite as

1:42:17quiet, the cost of building a burm or

1:42:20any of these other potential sound

1:42:23definition

1:42:27you just buy a little bit more land to

1:42:29make it work. In this instance, plan's

1:42:30probably cheaper than than doing some of

1:42:32these earth moving or or

1:42:34>> yeah, you get get further off the

1:42:36property line, but you leave the you

1:42:38leave that by setting a decibel level.

1:42:41It's up to you folks to reach that

1:42:43whether you do it with

1:42:45>> big property and trees, whether you do

1:42:47it with small property and BMS, you

1:42:50know, that that's up to y'all,

1:42:52>> right?

1:42:53>> We have a performance standard.

1:42:55>> I'm fine with 55. I just wanted to throw

1:42:57that out there. have something on the

1:42:59record that hey yeah we talked about it

1:43:01if you can't meet it then you don't

1:43:03qualify.

1:43:04>> Sure. Good point.

1:43:06>> Have you surveyed other municipalities

1:43:08uh ordinances for something?

1:43:10>> We I've looked at other counties. Yes. A

1:43:12lot of this come from Rockingham County.

1:43:14Um Edcom has has one. Um there's quite a

1:43:18few counties that have some language

1:43:19that speak to it. Bunk has one.

1:43:21>> So what we are proposing is kind of

1:43:24tested and tried and tested. A lot of

1:43:27this is from Rockingham, but uh and

1:43:29they've got a lot more regulation about

1:43:31utility regulation and water regulation

1:43:34and that kind of stuff that I left out.

1:43:37>> Okay.

1:43:39Thank [snorts] you. Um number two, a

1:43:42preconstruction ambient noise study

1:43:44prepared by a licensed engineer will be

1:43:46required as part of the application.

1:43:48This study will show the baseline of

1:43:50ambient noise at the property, measuring

1:43:52existing noise levels on the site before

1:43:54construction. The study will include

1:43:57modeling to simulate future noise

1:43:59impacts and plans for mitigation.

1:44:06>> Sound good?

1:44:07>> Sound good.

1:44:08>> Okay. Number three, an acoustic study

1:44:10prepared by a licensed engineer will be

1:44:12required prior to the issuance of a

1:44:14certification of occupancy to ensure

1:44:17compliance with the pre-construction

1:44:18ambient noise study.

1:44:21Two steps.

1:44:23Tell us what it what the noise is now

1:44:25and and what you're proposing. 55 is our

1:44:29limit.

1:44:31This says you're 55. You're operating at

1:44:3455 or less.

1:44:37Um you may have this in there, Lee, and

1:44:41if if so, just we we'll move on until we

1:44:43get there. But

1:44:46my concern I have a strong concern about

1:44:48auxiliary power being used.

1:44:51Um it you know and I understand

1:44:55sometimes it's necessary and and that's

1:44:57totally understandable but should there

1:44:59be a ceiling on that?

1:45:02>> It's 55.

1:45:03>> It's 55 too.

1:45:04>> That includes Yeah.

1:45:05>> Okay.

1:45:06>> Um

1:45:08>> all data center facilities and

1:45:10associated power generation equipment

1:45:12shall be engineers to always maintain a

1:45:14maximum noise threshold of 55 dB. Yeah.

1:45:17>> So, if they've got generators that they

1:45:20have to run, that has to meet 55 at the

1:45:22property line as well. [clears throat]

1:45:25>> Okay. Yeah. There there are there's

1:45:28stories out there of them going into

1:45:31using auxiliary power full-time

1:45:35because they're using the their allotted

1:45:37amount of power coming in from the power

1:45:40company to

1:45:43>> to run something else or to run an expan

1:45:46to run an expansion or whatever.

1:45:48>> Very good point.

1:45:48>> And so I mean I just make sure we kind

1:45:52of get that boxed in so is that

1:45:55satisfactory?

1:45:56>> Sure.

1:45:56>> Yeah. I mean, if all that falls under

1:45:58that 155 and and there's not a that a

1:46:02wiggle room there for them if they say,

1:46:04"Well, we're on auxiliary power." Of

1:46:06course, this language needs to be

1:46:08vetted. I wanted to get, you know, where

1:46:11we were at and then andrew and Adam will

1:46:14look at it from a legal standpoint and u

1:46:17go from there to make sure that it's

1:46:19enforceable.

1:46:22>> Okay,

1:46:24>> good to go.

1:46:25>> Yep.

1:46:25>> Okay. Number four, written consent from

1:46:28the applicant that upon receipt of a

1:46:30verified noise complaint. And what that

1:46:32means is that we go out and verify with

1:46:34our noise meter that they're violating

1:46:37the noise level. Uh the zoning

1:46:39administrator may require the owner to

1:46:41submit at the owner's expense an

1:46:43additional acoustic study prepared by a

1:46:46mutually agreed upon third party

1:46:47engineer to ensure compliance with these

1:46:50standards. Let's say they slip above and

1:46:53they [clears throat] slip above and

1:46:54start getting loud. We'll go out there

1:46:55and test it with our calibrated machine.

1:46:58We'll show that to them and they have

1:47:01submitted as part of this application

1:47:04that they'll pay for an acoustic study.

1:47:10>> Seems reasonable.

1:47:11>> Mhm. And let me share I probably

1:47:13shouldn't say this might be used against

1:47:16us one day before

1:47:20[laughter]

1:47:20>> your attorney.

1:47:23The clever thing about that and I had

1:47:24not caught that until Mr. Crook read.

1:47:27I'd looked at that but not necessarily

1:47:28studied every aspect of this. But the

1:47:30clever thing about that is that if it's

1:47:33over 55 and particularly if it's this

1:47:36happens two or three times, we then can

1:47:39use their own study against them in

1:47:40court and how are they going to

1:47:42challenge the admissibility or

1:47:44reliability of their own study.

1:47:45>> Oh yeah.

1:47:46>> Mhm.

1:47:46>> So essentially it's a gotcha. If they're

1:47:48over 55,

1:47:50>> it's either fix it or then we come back

1:47:52to whatever board approved it to to

1:47:54revoke. Right.

1:47:55So I mean that's actually quite clever

1:47:59from an evidential perspective. It's

1:48:00it's

1:48:01>> that's Rockingham County.

1:48:02>> Well, well done CL. Good job.

1:48:05>> Yep. That's that's him.

1:48:06>> Yeah, that's that's going to that's that

1:48:08will be nice if we if it ever comes.

1:48:12>> Good with that. Okay. Uh B, landscaping

1:48:16standards. Uh, number one, a 100 foot

1:48:18vegetative buffer shall be preserved or

1:48:20established creating an opaque

1:48:21vegetative screen on any exterior

1:48:23property line adjoining a currently

1:48:25zoned residential or agricultural parcel

1:48:28of land. The reason I've got both of

1:48:31those, there's there's case law. It's

1:48:33Capital Outdoors versus Guilford County

1:48:35Board of Adjustment where a judge made a

1:48:38determination that an RA district is not

1:48:40a residential classification. It's

1:48:42considered agricultural. So, we needed

1:48:45to include both of those in that

1:48:47category for the purposes of this

1:48:49vegetative buffer. Um,

1:48:53let's see. Agriculture parcel. This

1:48:55applies to any part of the proposed data

1:48:57center facility use including the main

1:49:00building or buildings, mechanical

1:49:01equipment, cooling systems, loading

1:49:03areas, backup generators, utility

1:49:05substations, battery energy storage

1:49:07systems, power generation facility, and

1:49:09any other structures associated with the

1:49:11data center facility use.

1:49:16Y'all good with that? 100 foot. Want to

1:49:19talk about that on the is

1:49:21>> is that enough?

1:49:22>> Now

1:49:24if it's if it's

1:49:25>> a 100 foot vegetative buffer is enough

1:49:27to screen most things that you see. I

1:49:29mean you'll still see it in the winter

1:49:30time but generally it's 100 foot buffer

1:49:34is pretty good. I mean that's what's

1:49:35required around all mining pits. Uh you

1:49:38drive around go by Martin Marriott

1:49:40anywhere you can't tell there's a mine

1:49:41over there. Um, so 100 foot screening

1:49:44buffer visually does a good job. Um, I

1:49:49don't I think that would probably be

1:49:51sufficient. My only concern is

1:49:55the

1:49:58go back to our definitions. Where did I

1:50:01put it? The

1:50:05data center edge.

1:50:08Those can be relatively small.

1:50:11>> Mhm. 100 foot buffer around one of those

1:50:13vegetative buffers is going to be

1:50:15>> it's not required. It's a use by right.

1:50:17>> Yeah. Okay. So, this is those go in as a

1:50:19use by right. Yeah. Just for SA. We're

1:50:21talking about special use class A only.

1:50:23>> Gotcha.

1:50:25>> Yep. Um good there.

1:50:28>> Yep.

1:50:29>> Okay. Number two, burns may be used to

1:50:31reduce the 100 foot required vegetative

1:50:33buffer to 50 feet if with if width let's

1:50:39see 50 foot in width if said burnm I've

1:50:41got 10 ft there I want to respectfully

1:50:44ask that we change that to 40t

1:50:48>> because what I saw in Lenor the burm is

1:50:52more effective than 100 foot of trees

1:50:55>> probably

1:50:56>> it is much more effective than 100 foot

1:50:58of trees and in and deflecting noise.

1:51:00>> So you're saying 40 feet in height?

1:51:03>> Yes.

1:51:04>> Sounds a big hill.

1:51:05>> That's almost tall as this building.

1:51:07>> Yep.

1:51:08>> But that's that's where they get up

1:51:09there.

1:51:10>> In itself as far as if you're going to

1:51:12go 40 foot high,

1:51:14>> your bottom's going to be pretty wide.

1:51:17Be over 80 ft.

1:51:18>> It'd be over 80 ft at two to one.

1:51:19>> Yeah.

1:51:20>> Slope.

1:51:22>> I like that.

1:51:24>> That That's probably your most effective

1:51:26way. they they can reduce the the

1:51:29screening requirements and and you know

1:51:31save a little space if they build a big

1:51:33burm.

1:51:35And this new the new Google facility's

1:51:37got up there's got a the new 2026 has

1:51:39got a BM all the way around it.

1:51:41>> Yeah.

1:51:44>> It works.

1:51:45>> There's no doubt about it. It's like

1:51:46gravity.

1:51:47>> Yes.

1:51:49>> Yep. So are weable to change that to 40

1:51:51ft?

1:51:55Okay.

1:51:5740 ft in height, has a 2:1 horizontal to

1:52:00vertical slope, and is covered with

1:52:02evergreen landscaping that will reach a

1:52:04minimum of 20 ft in height at maturity

1:52:07as designed by a landscape professional.

1:52:09The burm can be located in the required

1:52:1250-ft buffer.

1:52:15The one I saw up there didn't have

1:52:16anything on it but weeds. I mean, that

1:52:19honestly, it had it had grass on it.

1:52:23that that would be a step beyond by

1:52:25requiring some type of evergreen tree

1:52:27foliage on it.

1:52:29>> Are we going to require that every

1:52:32bit of that burm or just the top

1:52:35portion?

1:52:35>> We could just specify the top if you

1:52:37wanted to

1:52:39>> because I think

1:52:39>> the 2:1 is going to be hard to keep.

1:52:41It'll need something on it to stabilize

1:52:43it, but it probably won't be trees. It's

1:52:46probably going to be some type of

1:52:47running

1:52:49vine or

1:52:51>> you know something like that.

1:52:55>> So you want to specify just the top or

1:52:58you want the vegetative buffer there or

1:53:00you want the vegetation on that at all

1:53:02cuz like I said the one that I saw up

1:53:03there didn't have anything on it. It was

1:53:05very effective but um I'll leave that up

1:53:08to discretion of the board. would I

1:53:11think probably

1:53:16from a security standpoint if you don't

1:53:18have a bunch of trees on that burm

1:53:20that's wide open. If someone gets across

1:53:21the fence, you can easily figure out

1:53:23where they are. If it is screened

1:53:24heavily in woods, you might have people

1:53:27that can run around in there and sneak

1:53:28around potentially after they cut

1:53:30through a fence. That may be why there

1:53:32wasn't anything ever planted on that to

1:53:35begin with.

1:53:36>> It could be that. That's a thought. If

1:53:39you have something that high and you

1:53:41putting a 20ft tree on top of it, high

1:53:43winds, you will have trouble with

1:53:46sustaining. I don't think

1:53:48>> I don't think trees can stand the

1:53:50pressure on that high burm.

1:53:52>> Okay. So, if we bumped up to 40 ft in

1:53:56height, we're okay with doing away with

1:53:58the plantings. Just stabilize the

1:54:00slopes.

1:54:01>> Yeah.

1:54:01>> Yeah.

1:54:01>> Yeah.

1:54:02>> Okay.

1:54:02>> What What if um

1:54:04>> that's a big mistake? What if what if um

1:54:08Well, yeah, we're good on 40. That's I

1:54:10won't muddy the water here. That's good.

1:54:12>> You sure?

1:54:13>> Yeah.

1:54:13>> Okay. So, um I'm going to take that out

1:54:21and leave the burm can be located in a

1:54:23required 50ft buffer.

1:54:26Okay. All right. Number three, um

1:54:29existing mature vegetation help shall be

1:54:32preserved where practical.

1:54:34Number four, all required landscape

1:54:36buffers shall be maintained by the

1:54:38property owner in a healthy living and

1:54:40effective condition for the life of the

1:54:41development. Any tree, shrub, or other

1:54:43plant material that dies, becomes

1:54:45diseased, or fails to provide the

1:54:47intended screening effect shall be

1:54:48replaced within 6 months with plant

1:54:51materials of comparable species size and

1:54:53screening capacity.

1:54:56Just a maintenance thing.

1:54:59Um, number five, landscaping is not

1:55:02required if the adjacent property is

1:55:04commercial or industrial.

1:55:08>> Well, what about rural commercial?

1:55:11That's less intensive. Like my office is

1:55:14rural commercial.

1:55:15>> Mhm.

1:55:16>> I would want some type of landscape

1:55:18screening between me and something that

1:55:20appears more industrial in nature than

1:55:23my office space.

1:55:25Well, um

1:55:28we Yeah, I mean that Real Commercial is

1:55:31is um designed to be off the beaten

1:55:34path. It it's it's for local

1:55:37serviceoriented businesses that serve

1:55:39the immediate community. Um

1:55:42>> but generally sometimes the building

1:55:44appears somewhat residential itself

1:55:47also.

1:55:48>> Yes.

1:55:48>> But but we're not talking about even

1:55:50allowing them in a RC, are we? Well,

1:55:52he's talking about if it's an adjoining

1:55:54>> RC

1:55:55>> that this would this would wave the

1:55:57screening requirement next to a

1:55:59commercial or industrial

1:56:01>> district.

1:56:02>> And I understand the purpose of that if

1:56:03you had two data centers next door to

1:56:05each other.

1:56:05>> Don't want to spend money. Yeah.

1:56:07>> We why screen each other between that,

1:56:10but it's still like lighter commercial

1:56:13would probably like a screening from a

1:56:16facility like that if it was built next

1:56:18to them.

1:56:19Well, we could we could um go

1:56:22specifically by zoning district and omit

1:56:24or include or we could get rid of

1:56:26commercial and just require industrial.

1:56:29Uh that it not that the trigger not be

1:56:32there for industrial. I mean we we could

1:56:34say you know landscaping is not required

1:56:37if the adjacent property is uh adjoining

1:56:41a a CS uh HC LI or HI or MXC or PEC

1:56:49zoning classification

1:56:54that that requires screening at the RC

1:56:57which is the only commercial designation

1:57:00that we have it that's designed to not

1:57:02be

1:57:04on the beaten path. CS is supposed to be

1:57:06at intersections, highway commercial,

1:57:08along highways. Um, but the intent there

1:57:11was to not require, you know, screenings

1:57:13and plings if you're going to be

1:57:15adjoining a, you know, another

1:57:18commercial or industrial use.

1:57:22But your point's very well taken as far

1:57:24as the RC.

1:57:25>> Put each classification won't be no gray

1:57:27area. Okay. Yeah.

1:57:28>> Okay. I agree.

1:57:31>> [clears throat]

1:57:33[snorts]

1:57:35>> I'll put the districts in.

1:57:38>> Okay, we're good there.

1:57:39>> Yeah.

1:57:40>> All right. C. Setback requirements.

1:57:42Setback requirements shall apply to any

1:57:44part of the data center facility

1:57:46including the main building or

1:57:47buildings, mechanical equipment, cooling

1:57:49systems, loading areas, backup

1:57:51generators, utility substations, battery

1:57:54energy storage systems, power generation

1:57:57facility, and any other structure

1:57:58associated with the data center facility

1:58:01use.

1:58:04>> Is there any chance that there could be

1:58:05some kind of retainage pond or lake on

1:58:07the property that they use for water to

1:58:10cool these places? That's that's a good

1:58:12thought. Um

1:58:14any other structure associated with the

1:58:19data center facility use structure? I I

1:58:22would interpret that to not include a a

1:58:24sediment pond.

1:58:26>> Yeah. The storm water pond's not likely

1:58:28to be the water's not likely to be run

1:58:30through some of that equipment. I don't

1:58:31think

1:58:32>> I would agree. I'm just thinking but

1:58:33that's good.

1:58:35>> That's a good thought. When we're

1:58:36talking about setbacks, do you want

1:58:39anything like that

1:58:42further away from the line?

1:58:44>> The the the sedimentation pond or

1:58:47>> I think either the 100 foot screen or

1:58:49the

1:58:51mountain built around it would be

1:58:54sufficient.

1:58:55>> Yeah.

1:58:56>> I mean, if it's if it's an outdoor that

1:58:59nothing is being done with, it's just a

1:59:01pond.

1:59:03>> Just thinking what else is not in this

1:59:04list?

1:59:05>> Yeah. Sure. Sure. And I it's quite

1:59:08possible I have forgot something that

1:59:11that's why we're doing this and that

1:59:12that's why we're going to hear from the

1:59:14public.

1:59:14>> Um

1:59:16did they have any type of permanent u

1:59:20storm water features at the Google site?

1:59:23I can't remember the aerial photograph.

1:59:25I hate to tell you to go back that many

1:59:27pages, but

1:59:29>> be surprised.

1:59:31>> Not that many. Um I don't recall when

1:59:34right up there between the first

1:59:36building and the second one.

1:59:37>> Yeah, there is a little facility there.

1:59:38Yes. So yeah, they do.

1:59:40>> They're pretty minimal because they have

1:59:41very little overall runoff other than

1:59:44the building itself. You don't have

1:59:46massive parking lots like you do with

1:59:49distribution hubs and stuff,

1:59:51>> right? parking space. The parking

1:59:53requirements are minimal for these.

1:59:55>> I would say limiting, you know, trying

1:59:57to put a setback of 500 ft to a

2:00:02retention pond would be unnecessary.

2:00:06>> Well, the topography is going to dictate

2:00:07a whole lot of that as well. And we we

2:00:10don't know that up front. And that's not

2:00:12an obtrusive part of the facility.

2:00:16>> No. And in a lot of places where we have

2:00:18now post storm water con uh features,

2:00:22they're in residential subdivisions at

2:00:24this

2:00:25>> and 100%.

2:00:27>> Christian, are you saying that the say

2:00:31storm pond should be allowed in the

2:00:35setback?

2:00:36>> Yeah.

2:00:36>> Yeah, I agree.

2:00:37>> But not not inside the 100t buffer. But

2:00:41you know it's still if even if we have a

2:00:43100T buffer but your building has a

2:00:45setback of 500 ft that area between it

2:00:48can hold a you know storm water

2:00:51retention between the building and the

2:00:53buffer.

2:00:54>> Yes.

2:00:54>> Right.

2:00:55>> And see the reality of not having a

2:00:57minimum lot size all of these things

2:01:00that are taking place here the property

2:01:02is going to be big.

2:01:03>> Yeah.

2:01:03>> Yeah. it it there's probably no reason

2:01:05to do a minimum lot size because all

2:01:07this is going to dictate how big that's

2:01:08got to be effectively putting you know

2:01:12setbacks on these facilities. So um

2:01:16that's the mindset anyways.

2:01:19>> Okay. Um good to go.

2:01:21>> Yes sir.

2:01:22>> Okay. Number two setbacks. The minimum

2:01:25setback from any exterior lot line shall

2:01:27be 200 ft from the exterior property

2:01:30line of the subject property or

2:01:32properties and that's we have a concept

2:01:35of a zoning lot. If there's multiple

2:01:36properties used we would consider the

2:01:40outside of both properties you know

2:01:42would we would apply that 200t setback

2:01:45to that.

2:01:48Um, [clears throat]

2:01:49number three, minimum setback from any

2:01:51residential or agriculturally zoned

2:01:53property shall be 500 ft from the

2:01:56exterior property line.

2:01:59Number four, setbacks from an exterior.

2:02:02>> Was that sort of standard with

2:02:04Rockingham County and everywhere else

2:02:07that you've studied?

2:02:08>> Um, yeah,

2:02:11it look they're all over the place.

2:02:14They're there's they're as minimal as

2:02:16200 feet. Some of them are 50 ft.

2:02:18Extremes, Jim, were a quarter of a mile,

2:02:221340 some feet, you know. Um, so it's

2:02:28between two and 500 foot or 600 ft. That

2:02:32that's kind of where most of the folks

2:02:34ended up. 500's very common.

2:02:38>> Okay. I can tell you our neighbors to

2:02:40the south have one that's that's got a

2:02:43300t set back from the public rightway

2:02:47and it's got a I'm trying to remember

2:02:50how big the burm is, but it's big. It's

2:02:52it probably 30 ft at least.

2:02:56Um so 200 against that sounds

2:03:03little little small, but um

2:03:05>> yeah, I wouldn't want to go under 500. I

2:03:07just wonder if we all go more, but

2:03:09you're saying that 500 ft is pretty

2:03:13common. Yes, sir.

2:03:13>> Okay.

2:03:14>> That was 500 ft roughly. Is that what

2:03:17you said? Residential directly across

2:03:19the road from it.

2:03:21>> I don't know the specifics of this

2:03:23ordinance cuz it's the city of Lenor,

2:03:25but 200 foot was look like the setback.

2:03:29It was well over 500 foot to any

2:03:32residential property

2:03:34with this facility.

2:03:39I'm fine with that.

2:03:43>> I think that would be fine because

2:03:44depending on the noise level they're

2:03:46making, they may have to create that

2:03:48setback to be higher anyhow just to meet

2:03:51their noise regulation. I mean, that's

2:03:53really going to be real the most

2:03:54restrictive part. It's going to push

2:03:56them off the property line if they're

2:03:58having to meet 55 dB. Whether they have

2:04:00the the low water usage, noisy cooling

2:04:04systems, they're going to meet that 55.

2:04:06They either got to put something around

2:04:08them to absorb sound, spend the money on

2:04:10that, big tall BMS or move off the

2:04:12property line. I think in combination of

2:04:15the BMS and setback and then the 500

2:04:18setback would be sufficient to keep most

2:04:21of them at a quieter level because you

2:04:23demonstrated that with with the way that

2:04:25one is set up. And now you like you said

2:04:26you were 200t roughly over here but

2:04:29definitely about 500 ft away at this

2:04:32intersection where the house was. And it

2:04:34was it seemed to keep the noise level at

2:04:36what we want.

2:04:37>> Very reasonable. And that was direct

2:04:39line of sight. There was nothing no BM

2:04:41in there or anything.

2:04:42>> Yeah.

2:04:44Okay. Um,

2:04:47let's see. The 500 foot setbacks from an

2:04:49exterior property line that has a

2:04:51learning institution, place of worship,

2:04:53assisted living facility, uh, located on

2:04:57it shall be 1,000 ft from any exterior

2:04:59property line.

2:05:00>> So, here again, that one's pretty

2:05:01common.

2:05:03>> Um, that's something that, um, I mean,

2:05:06the the the array of setbacks that's

2:05:08within the the average, but it's on the

2:05:11extreme side. It's It's

2:05:12>> on the extreme side.

2:05:13>> Pretty far out. Yeah.

2:05:15>> Okay.

2:05:18>> Is there anything else we'd want to add

2:05:19to that list that might be

2:05:22>> potentially?

2:05:23>> Yeah.

2:05:23>> Yeah. Um,

2:05:26you know, and [snorts] the the language

2:05:28there, the intent is, you know, assisted

2:05:31living facility, place of worship, um,

2:05:34educate learning institution.

2:05:37>> How about child care?

2:05:38>> Yeah, that's what I was thinking, too.

2:05:39>> Okay. Yeah, let's put child care in

2:05:41there.

2:05:41>> Child

2:05:43care.

2:05:44>> This is similar to a learning

2:05:46instrument.

2:05:47>> That's bad.

2:05:50>> Anything else?

2:05:58>> Looks good.

2:05:59>> Okay. Um, that concludes the setback

2:06:02section. Exterior lighting plan

2:06:05[clears throat] number one. Lighting

2:06:06fixtures shall be a minimum of maximum

2:06:08of 30 ft in height within vehicular

2:06:11areas and a maximum of 15 in height 15

2:06:13ft in height with non-vehicular areas.

2:06:18Number two, no lighting fixtures will be

2:06:20permitted in any of the landscape

2:06:21buffering areas. Number three, lighting

2:06:23shall be fully shielded and directed

2:06:26toward downward so as to not create

2:06:29glare or illumination onto adjacent

2:06:31properties or public rideways.

2:06:33Anybody got any heartburn with that?

2:06:36>> Sounds good.

2:06:36>> I like to see it on everything in the

2:06:38camera. [laughter]

2:06:42>> Okay. An emergency operation plan. E.

2:06:44Number one, an emergency operation plan

2:06:47shall be submitted as part of the

2:06:48application that will be reviewed and

2:06:51approved by the Davidson County

2:06:52Emergency Services Department. Comments

2:06:54from the Davidson County Emergency

2:06:56Services Department shall be implemented

2:06:58as this speaks directly to the public

2:07:00health, safety, and general welfare of

2:07:02the surrounding community.

2:07:05>> Good with that.

2:07:06>> Okay.

2:07:06>> I have a question.

2:07:07>> Yes, sir.

2:07:08>> Um,

2:07:13we may not have got there yet. Um, but

2:07:16does this part include

2:07:19if there's a drought, we've got don't

2:07:20have enough water to facilitate their

2:07:24use and in order for the residents to be

2:07:27protected for their water use, we got to

2:07:29shut it down temporarily. Does that make

2:07:32sense?

2:07:33>> Um,

2:07:34that

2:07:36>> can

2:07:36>> Yeah. Yeah. So, and you heard some of

2:07:40this and look, I I let me step back and

2:07:43be clear

2:07:44>> from a county perspective. That sounds

2:07:46great, right? I think the the realistic

2:07:48thing is we want to be upfront. We hear

2:07:51the word transparent a lot. Can the

2:07:52county actually regulate that? I don't

2:07:54think they can.

2:07:55>> I agree with that. Is there anything we

2:07:57can do though?

2:07:57>> And and the reason I say that is because

2:07:59we we heard utility folks and and we've

2:08:01talked to several utility folks on the

2:08:03phone. We heard it a lot in here. We've

2:08:05heard it in other other ordinances,

2:08:07other people trying to generate this is

2:08:09that they have to serve their customers.

2:08:11They can't discriminate as a common

2:08:13carrier.

2:08:14>> Yeah.

2:08:14>> When you get on a bus, everyone gets

2:08:16treated the same on the bus. Right.

2:08:17>> That's right.

2:08:18>> And good reason why, right?

2:08:21>> Legal monopolies providing water, power,

2:08:24gas, whatever, they have to treat their

2:08:26customers the same more or less. Now,

2:08:29within those agreements between private

2:08:31parties, can they work out something

2:08:32where, hey, you're a big water user, we

2:08:35have a drought, we're going to need to

2:08:36trickle you down. They can always work

2:08:38that out between private parties. Can we

2:08:40regulate that?

2:08:42>> I don't think we can. Um,

2:08:44>> okay.

2:08:45>> I do think this is where a a great place

2:08:47where folks here, folks out there, folks

2:08:50watching on Facebook live can can go to

2:08:53the state because I think the state can

2:08:55regulate that. In fact, as Senator

2:08:57Jarvis's bill is a great bill. I think

2:08:58it does a lot of this and certainly

2:09:00could be added to. So the federal

2:09:02government, state government can

2:09:03absolutely regulate that because they

2:09:04regulate those monopolies. Right.

2:09:06>> Right.

2:09:07>> So that's where that can happen. I I

2:09:09don't think we can. And I think if we

2:09:10pass it, I don't think we actually can

2:09:12do it.

2:09:12>> I'm I'm good with that. I just want to

2:09:15put it out there. Sure.

2:09:16>> Make sure that it's an issue that's been

2:09:18discussed.

2:09:19>> Yeah. Absolutely. Absolutely. But it's a

2:09:20great point, though. I mean, I I we I

2:09:22certainly wish we

2:09:24and and I I do speak to water usage a

2:09:26little bit later in here and and usage

2:09:28is misspelled, too. Good night. Um

2:09:30[laughter]

2:09:32but I was putting this together, you

2:09:34know, your eyes go cross after a little

2:09:37while reading ordinance. It's it's not

2:09:39as exciting as it sounds. Okay.

2:09:42>> Touch code.

2:09:43>> But um anyway, we we I'll get into that

2:09:46a little bit. U next section F vibration

2:09:49impact study. A vibration impact study

2:09:52prepared by a licensed professional

2:09:53engineer shall be submitted. No

2:09:55operation shall produce vibration that

2:09:58is discernible without instruments

2:09:59beyond the property line. Nor may any

2:10:03vibration produce a particle velocity of

2:10:062 in per second measured at or beyond

2:10:09the property line. That measurement of 2

2:10:11in per second is is uh structural damage

2:10:16like when they're preparing the site. um

2:10:20the u you know at that rate you could

2:10:22receive damage to a to a structure off

2:10:25the property if they have to blast or

2:10:26they have to do something like that.

2:10:28That kind of puts a guard rail up so

2:10:30that they're not damaging surrounding

2:10:32properties

2:10:34uh by their activities, not everyday

2:10:36operation.

2:10:37>> That's just construction. Um

2:10:39>> well, there's nothing during everyday

2:10:41operation that'll reach anywhere close

2:10:43to that.

2:10:44>> Okay.

2:10:45>> But that's that's it. We don't have that

2:10:47on anything else, do we?

2:10:48>> We do. Do we

2:10:49>> for for a um a landfield?

2:10:53We got that same language.

2:10:56>> But it doesn't apply if you're building

2:10:58a new road in a subdivision and you have

2:11:01to blast.

2:11:02>> We don't have that

2:11:03>> cuz it does happen.

2:11:04>> Yep.

2:11:04>> Yep.

2:11:05>> Sure [laughter] does.

2:11:07>> Good. Good.

2:11:10>> Okay. Uh written consent from the

2:11:12applicant that upon receipt of a

2:11:14verified vibration complaint that the

2:11:16zoning administrator may require the

2:11:17owner to submit at the owner's expense

2:11:19an additional vibration impact study

2:11:21prepared by a mutually agreed upon third

2:11:23party engineer to ensure compliance with

2:11:25these standards. Another set of guard

2:11:28rails.

2:11:30Good.

2:11:31>> Okay. Um then I'm not rushing you folks.

2:11:34I'm just trying to move through it. It's

2:11:35a long piece of text. Decommissioning

2:11:38plan. If a data processing facility

2:11:41ceases operation for a continuous period

2:11:43of 12 months, the use shall be

2:11:45considered discontinued and the county

2:11:47may require execution of the approved

2:11:50decommissioned decommissioning plan and

2:11:53if necessary draw upon the financial

2:11:56assurance to complete site restoration.

2:11:58The property owner shall remove all

2:12:00equipment, machinery, generators, fuel

2:12:03storage systems and related operational

2:12:05infrastructure associated with the use.

2:12:08Any future reestablishment of the use

2:12:10shall require new approval in accordance

2:12:13with the ordinance in place at the time

2:12:15of reestablishment.

2:12:21Folks good with that.

2:12:27Mhm.

2:12:35I I sense some hesitation.

2:12:39I'm I'm just I'm thinking about

2:12:45um the difficulty and I mean I I don't

2:12:48think it'd be as easy as send them a

2:12:50letter to get something like that to

2:12:51happen if they've shut down. But uh that

2:12:54you can't you can't write something like

2:12:56that into

2:12:57>> they got something saying they'll do it.

2:12:58It'll help these guys. Well,

2:13:00>> right.

2:13:01>> Yep.

2:13:01>> Yeah.

2:13:02>> Yeah.

2:13:02>> Yep. I mean, I'm not opposed to it being

2:13:04in there. I'm just I'm just sitting here

2:13:05thinking, "Wow,

2:13:06>> it's not a magic bullet, but it's

2:13:08bullet." Right.

2:13:08>> It's a bullet. [laughter]

2:13:10>> Yep.

2:13:11>> Okay. And le the way you got that road

2:13:13if I'm reading it right. So if somebody

2:13:15wanted to start it back up and go back

2:13:18and the we've adopted some new

2:13:20ordinances they got to go with the new

2:13:23ordinances instead of they don't fall

2:13:25under the grand.

2:13:26>> Well they they would have to go back and

2:13:29get another special use permit if this

2:13:30is adopted.

2:13:36>> Good

2:13:38to go.

2:13:38>> Number two. As part of the application,

2:13:40the applicant shall submit a

2:13:41decommissioning and site restoration

2:13:43plan describing the anticipated life of

2:13:45the facility, the manner in which the

2:13:47data processing, specific equipment and

2:13:50infrastructure will be removed upon

2:13:52discontinuation of operations, and how

2:13:54the site will be stabilized and

2:13:56restored.

2:13:59>> Okay with that?

2:14:00>> Yeah. Uh three, prior to issuance of a

2:14:03zoning permit, the applicant shall

2:14:05provide a financial assurance in the

2:14:06form of accept in a form acceptable to

2:14:09the county sufficient to cover the

2:14:11reasonable cost associated with removal

2:14:13of the specialized data processing

2:14:15equipment and associated infrastructure

2:14:18including but not limited to generators,

2:14:20fuel storage systems, mechanical

2:14:22equipment, and related above and below

2:14:25ground equipment.

2:14:28That cost is going to vary year to year

2:14:30to year to year. You may want to put an

2:14:32inflation clause in there. I

2:14:34>> think they kind of have that on four.

2:14:38>> Okay. Yep. Number four. The the amount

2:14:40of the financial assurance shall be 100

2:14:431.25 times the estimated decommissioning

2:14:46cost minus 50% of the salvageable value

2:14:50or $75,000 whichever is greater. It

2:14:53shall be based on a cost estimate

2:14:54prepared by a licensed engineer or

2:14:56qualified professional and should not

2:14:59include the cost of removing the primary

2:15:01building structure unless specifically

2:15:04required by the approved decommissioning

2:15:06plant. This plan shall be re-evaluated

2:15:09if there is an expansion of the site.

2:15:13Should there be a

2:15:16to go further with what you said the

2:15:18potential of how long is there a

2:15:21re-evaluation time to say that building

2:15:23is there 20 years from now and then

2:15:26>> 1.25 25 from now compared I mean you

2:15:29just think about inflation in the past

2:15:31six years.

2:15:32>> Sure.

2:15:32>> Is is there a a way to put a dead you

2:15:36know a re-evaluation time?

2:15:37>> Sure.

2:15:38>> We can we can revisit this as frequently

2:15:40as as the board is comfortable with. We

2:15:43can do it every 5 years. We can do you

2:15:46know we can put this plan this financial

2:15:49assurance shall be revisited ever so

2:15:52frequently.

2:15:54I think it needs to say that uh it

2:15:59I think you have to have some language

2:16:01in there about it maintaining

2:16:03the cost at that time.

2:16:06Uh you know just saying it's

2:16:08re-evaluated over 5 years I think is

2:16:10insufficient.

2:16:11>> Well it's the it's the same thing

2:16:14[clears throat] intent. I get the intent

2:16:16but

2:16:16>> it's the same thing we run into with

2:16:17solar. You know decommissioning a solar

2:16:20farm. We don't know what the salvage

2:16:22costs are going to be at the time it's

2:16:25decommissioned, if it's ever

2:16:26decommissioned.

2:16:27>> Yeah.

2:16:27>> So, it it's by re revisiting this every

2:16:325 years and updating the plan, we're at

2:16:35least staying current with the values

2:16:37every 5 years.

2:16:39>> Yep. And they would be, you know, the

2:16:43assurance amount would they may have to

2:16:45add to that if the evaluation is found

2:16:48that there has been inflation. You know,

2:16:50if the county's kept a certain amount of

2:16:52assurance money from them at 1.25 times

2:16:55the estimated decommissioning cost, we

2:16:57have inflation

2:17:00just because we had reevaluate to say,

2:17:02"Yeah, it would cost more." Now, we

2:17:04still need something in here that says,

2:17:05"And because of that, you now need to

2:17:07add to the assurance amount, whether

2:17:10it's a trust or whatever, but there

2:17:12needs to be a way to maintain the money

2:17:14that the county could decommission it."

2:17:16>> That's what I'm getting at.

2:17:19The money's got to be available whatever

2:17:21that

2:17:23whatever that value is whether it's now

2:17:25or in 20 years. Um did they bond it? Can

2:17:29they bond something like that?

2:17:31>> Yeah. I mean and the number five

2:17:33acceptable forms of financial assurance

2:17:35may include a shity bond revoke

2:17:39irrevocable letter of credit or other

2:17:41security acceptable to the county and

2:17:44shall remain in effect until the site

2:17:46has been decommissioned and restored in

2:17:47accordance with the approved plan.

2:17:50>> I I guess my my point is it it can't be

2:17:53a fixed dollar amount. It's got to float

2:17:55with the terms.

2:17:56>> Okay.

2:17:57>> Just a suggestion on that and Mr. Mr. M,

2:17:59you may appreciate this. It might be

2:18:01good for the state, and we've talked

2:18:05about this a lot in this room, not

2:18:06necessarily with this board, but the

2:18:07state is pushing counties to value to to

2:18:09reval every four years. I know that's a

2:18:11hot topic, right?

2:18:12>> It might be good to tie this to revout

2:18:14to to reval because they're submitting

2:18:16they're submitting information to the

2:18:17tax department anyway about what the

2:18:19current value is.

2:18:20>> Yep.

2:18:20>> Yeah.

2:18:21>> Um and that way it's just part of that

2:18:23process.

2:18:24>> Not a bad idea at all.

2:18:25>> That's good. It's good. And the chips

2:18:26become obsolete after four years anyway.

2:18:28So, it's good that keep it up because

2:18:30they might not say they might not be

2:18:32able to afford another $600 million

2:18:35worth of AI chips. They might just say,

2:18:37"Let's close it up

2:18:38>> and then we're stuck four years later."

2:18:40>> Yeah.

2:18:41>> Yeah.

2:18:41>> Good point.

2:18:45So language tying the

2:18:50decommissioning

2:18:52cost and financial assurity

2:18:56to the revaluation

2:18:59that the county does on property values

2:19:03every four years.

2:19:04>> Y or whatever the schedule is. But I'm

2:19:06saying I mean they're pushing us to go

2:19:08four years. I mean we

2:19:09>> and and also that they are whatever that

2:19:13difference is they're expected to add

2:19:16that to the current

2:19:18>> or subtract

2:19:19>> or subtract if it were to go down for

2:19:20some reason

2:19:22>> we ever reversed inflation

2:19:26[laughter]

2:19:27>> but

2:19:27>> it's rare but it has happened. Yeah, but

2:19:31u either add or subtract to, you know,

2:19:34based off of what that current rate is

2:19:36at.

2:19:36>> Okay. If you guys will indulge us or Go

2:19:39ahead, Ted. I'm sorry.

2:19:40>> I just don't want the county to be

2:19:41responsible for a deficiency in their

2:19:45decommissioning budget.

2:19:46>> Yeah.

2:19:47>> Would you guys trust Mr. How and myself

2:19:49to put that language in this document?

2:19:51>> Yeah. Yeah, sure.

2:19:52>> Okay. Okay. You can word Smith it.

2:19:59Okay. Very good. Thank you. That that's

2:20:02good good work. Um we we good with the

2:20:05rest of it?

2:20:06>> Yeah.

2:20:06>> Yeah.

2:20:07>> All right. H We're about through, guys.

2:20:10H access to site shall only be provided

2:20:13from a public street constructed to NC

2:20:15DOT standards unless the emergency

2:20:17operations plan calls for an additional

2:20:20limited emergency access for safety

2:20:22purposes. U common sense. Uh, number

2:20:25two, a North Carolina Department of

2:20:27Transportation commercial driveway

2:20:29permit shall successfully be issued to

2:20:31show safe access to and from the

2:20:33proposed proposed facility.

2:20:36Okay.

2:20:37>> All right. You all heartburn with that?

2:20:39We're good.

2:20:39>> Yeah.

2:20:40>> Okay. I penalties. Any violation of

2:20:43these regulations at any time shall be

2:20:45considered a violation of article uh

2:20:48nine or eight compliance section 8.5

2:20:52civil penalties assessments and

2:20:53procedures of this ordinance and shall

2:20:55be enforceable as such that just ties it

2:20:58into our penalty section. Uh and then

2:21:01last J water usage that's the uh that's

2:21:04what I added and my thought process

2:21:08behind this and and I I want to explain

2:21:10this before we go through it.

2:21:13Water is a finite resource. We've got X

2:21:16amount of water. We can't make any more

2:21:18water. Sometimes that supply goes up and

2:21:21it goes down.

2:21:23Power is something that can be created.

2:21:27We we can make more power if if it's

2:21:29required.

2:21:30Um,

2:21:32when we talk about closed loop and open

2:21:35loop, I talked about it earlier on that

2:21:37sliding scale. If you're high power,

2:21:39you're low water. That's what this

2:21:42proposes. Those are the noisy ones,

2:21:44though. Those are the more fans cooling,

2:21:46not what we heard at Google. Um, I don't

2:21:49know how much noisier they are. I'd like

2:21:51to try to find that facility and go

2:21:53listen to it.

2:21:55Um but because of that mental process

2:22:00try to protect our resource that we

2:22:02can't create more of that's why this

2:22:05language is in here.

2:22:07>> Now if if

2:22:09you guys have a difference opinion be

2:22:11glad to discuss that. I'll walk through

2:22:13these and and talk about them and then

2:22:15we can discuss it. Um, one facilities

2:22:18shall be facilities shall use closed

2:22:21loop or other low water or zero water

2:22:23cooling systems. Open loop and or air

2:22:26cooled systems are prohibited. That's

2:22:28one. And two, facilities shall connect

2:22:32only to public water. Private wells are

2:22:34prohibited. Septic shall only be

2:22:37permitted for domestic office use and

2:22:40not be utilized for any disposal related

2:22:42to data processing in its ancillary

2:22:45systems.

2:22:47So, bathrooms, sure. No different than,

2:22:50you know, factory. Um, so that's that's

2:22:55the proposal.

2:22:57Does anyone have any heartburn with

2:22:58that?

2:22:59>> I don't like number one being in there.

2:23:02I think we're dictating too much on what

2:23:05they can and can't do. they should be

2:23:06allowed to design what they feel is best

2:23:10for their use on that with the regards

2:23:13of the parameters of what we've put in

2:23:15here. Again, it goes back to what we've

2:23:17talked about with utilities. If the

2:23:19utility company says they can do it,

2:23:21they can do it.

2:23:22>> Okay. Um, I definitely agree that

2:23:24private wells should not be allowed

2:23:26because that can tap into I mean 500

2:23:31feet away at a residential setback, you

2:23:33know, 500 ft off

2:23:37everybody's well dry.

2:23:39>> Uh, that would be bad. But I'm not so

2:23:41sure about dictating whether they're

2:23:43closed loop or air cooled or anything

2:23:46like that.

2:23:48>> Okay.

2:23:50go back to penalties. We we didn't talk

2:23:52about the civil penalties.

2:23:55>> That's that's later on.

2:23:57>> Okay.

2:23:57>> Yes, sir. I I'll get to that. And we've

2:24:00got a little bit

2:24:01>> talking about those when we're

2:24:03>> Well, it it just says if you violate any

2:24:05of these rules, it points to an

2:24:07ordinance section. We're going to amend

2:24:09that ordinance section, too. We're

2:24:10talking about that here in just a

2:24:12second.

2:24:13>> Lee, I kind of agree with you, though,

2:24:16on the closed loop and the water.

2:24:20We can't make no more water,

2:24:22>> right?

2:24:23>> They invest all these millions and

2:24:25millions or billions of dollars and

2:24:29we do have a severe drought or

2:24:31something. They're not going to want to

2:24:33close them down if they're using

2:24:3712,000 or 20,000 or whatever they'd be

2:24:40using.

2:24:41>> Yeah.

2:24:42>> Uh looks to me like clos loop would be a

2:24:44better way to go to me, but that's

2:24:46>> Yeah. I mean, I'm different for that.

2:24:48That's that's one thing hungry.

2:24:51>> Well, I've read articles that some

2:24:53municipalities across the country, and I

2:24:55don't profess to know what this really

2:24:57even means, but are using gray water.

2:24:59>> They do. They do. Um they're like I

2:25:02said, the nuances of the cooling systems

2:25:05are ever evolving. They've got new chips

2:25:09now that are in liquid.

2:25:10>> Yeah.

2:25:11>> And and I don't pretend to understand

2:25:13that. I don't. And and we we Mr. Mr.

2:25:16Curry may be able to speak to that a

2:25:17little better than I can, but uh that

2:25:19there are all kinds of different things

2:25:22and that technology is evolving because

2:25:23the industry knows that's a problem.

2:25:26They know that's a problem. Facility we

2:25:29looked at today as a as a case a case

2:25:31study is a 2007

2:25:34technology. The first two buildings are

2:25:36they use a ton of water. Um and that's

2:25:39that they realize they don't need to do

2:25:41that. Some of them will use gray water.

2:25:43I I've I've read that to keep to keep

2:25:47from using municipal drinking water,

2:25:49>> right?

2:25:50>> Yeah. I mean, I think that's a really

2:25:51good idea. Closed loop or gray water.

2:25:55>> Well, sometimes the closed loop is

2:25:58>> uses the gray water.

2:25:59>> They they you know, another issue that

2:26:02comes up with that on the closed loop

2:26:03system are the F forever chemicals. They

2:26:06use those to keep the systems clean.

2:26:08They're moving away from that, too.

2:26:10>> They're finding new technologies. I read

2:26:13one where a facility, I don't know the

2:26:15name, they're using some kind of moss to

2:26:17keep the the the closed loop system

2:26:19clean. Um, so it it's it's something

2:26:23that we don't have the expertise. We

2:26:25need a general rule uh to to regulate

2:26:30these folks by and it it to me it boils

2:26:32down to

2:26:34do we want them to you know utilize the

2:26:38water more utilize power more or just

2:26:42stay out of the game. So that I think

2:26:44that's kind of the question that we

2:26:46have. This is set up to utilize to

2:26:49conserve water but it'll be more power

2:26:51and it'll be a little noisier a machine.

2:26:54Would it be a safeguard for the

2:26:56community and the citizens with their

2:26:57water if we prohibit the open loop? I

2:27:00think

2:27:00>> that was my fault.

2:27:01>> I think that that' be a must for the

2:27:03citizens of Davidson County

2:27:04>> and that that can do away a little bit

2:27:06with some of the heat plume stuff that

2:27:08we're not even going to try to regulate.

2:27:10>> Well, my point to my question with the

2:27:12gray water is I don't want to I don't

2:27:13want to design something here in the

2:27:16ordinance that's going to prohibit

2:27:18something that may be useful. Maybe not

2:27:20so much now, but in five years it it may

2:27:22be. And then sort of when we're talking

2:27:25about water, whether it's closed loop or

2:27:27not, there's going to be some waste. We

2:27:29haven't really talked about waste

2:27:31leaving the facility and and mitigating

2:27:34any problems that could come from that

2:27:36dirty water. Uh if I I don't know if

2:27:39that's even necessary, Lee, and it may

2:27:41not be, but I it ought to be talked

2:27:44about at least.

2:27:45>> I I don't know that it's necessary

2:27:46because it'll either be on public sewer,

2:27:49>> right?

2:27:49>> And we're saying you can't do it on by

2:27:51septic. Okay, that fair enough.

2:27:54>> We're saying they could potentially have

2:27:56a state discharge permit if they're

2:27:58discharging enough water.

2:28:00>> Yeah.

2:28:00>> And I I think that would probably be

2:28:02acceptable cuz we're not saying you

2:28:04can't do that. You just can't do it by

2:28:06septic system.

2:28:08>> Okay.

2:28:08>> Would that be considered a septic

2:28:10system? That would be some type of

2:28:13filter bed or because it's a it'd be a

2:28:15large quantity of water potentially. A

2:28:18discharge is just that as the water is

2:28:21being discharged to the surface.

2:28:23>> Okay.

2:28:24>> So, if it's going through a treatment

2:28:25process, that's it may still need a

2:28:27permit, but it's different. It's going

2:28:29to come out somewhere, though.

2:28:31>> Well, the the the true closed loop

2:28:33systems, they don't really put off

2:28:36anything.

2:28:37>> Yeah. What I've read on that, a closed

2:28:38loop system

2:28:40don't lose very much stuff. I mean,

2:28:43>> I just remember when Joe and I went to

2:28:45Florida to see the new core plant down

2:28:46there. Um, they mentioned that they sand

2:28:50filter their water eight times before it

2:28:52leaves their hands and goes back into

2:28:55the municipality. And I didn't know if

2:28:58something like that should

2:29:00uh if they're going to discharge water

2:29:02back into the source, should we have

2:29:04some kind of filtering system before it

2:29:06gets there? Is it too much of a load on

2:29:07the municipality to clean it than it is

2:29:10for

2:29:11>> It will require a study.

2:29:13>> Yeah. And require pre-treatment. I think

2:29:15that would be regulated at the state

2:29:18level or by the municipal level they

2:29:22have to do before it leaves their hands.

2:29:23>> They always look at what kind of stuff's

2:29:25going into their system and they're

2:29:26going to require permits for it.

2:29:28>> Yeah.

2:29:28>> Okay.

2:29:29>> DW will I mean I'm sure they're going to

2:29:32have to have a DW permit.

2:29:35>> And storm water runoff permits. So

2:29:37>> Oh, absolutely.

2:29:38>> That'll all be regulated by the state.

2:29:40>> Yeah. Has has the uh

2:29:44requirement for closed loop only systems

2:29:47has that been challenged? Anybody know

2:29:48if that's

2:29:50>> If it has, I'm not aware of it, but I I

2:29:52know it's a popular regulation

2:29:56cuz people want to hold on to their

2:29:58water. I I'm I'm all for that. Don't

2:30:02Don't get me wrong. I I'm just, you

2:30:04know, having been in the industry a

2:30:06little bit,

2:30:08usually the the the

2:30:11builder or the contractor is given the

2:30:14discretion to figure out a way to meet

2:30:16the objective

2:30:18without being given prescriptive ways

2:30:21and only prescriptive ways. So, you

2:30:25know, if if this will hold up, that's

2:30:28fine.

2:30:29>> Yeah. the the best outcome is for for

2:30:32this this prohibition or the the the

2:30:34closed loop requirement which again is

2:30:36in that it's a wonderful bill. It's in

2:30:38that bill. The best the best outcome is

2:30:40for the state to require and then it's

2:30:42>> it's really easy then we kind of knew

2:30:45that going in.

2:30:46>> Okay.

2:30:47>> Don't know if it'll be adopted like that

2:30:48but that's

2:30:50>> Well, if they don't we can require it.

2:30:51>> Pardon?

2:30:52>> If they don't require it, we can require

2:30:53it.

2:30:55We can we can

2:30:58back up.

2:30:58>> Who knows if

2:30:59>> we can pass it and see what happens,

2:31:01right?

2:31:03>> Exactly.

2:31:03>> We're not going

2:31:05>> any any other comments on on water

2:31:07usage.

2:31:09>> So, we we want to leave that in or or

2:31:13very good points on

2:31:16>> I'm hearing consensus. You probably want

2:31:18to leave it in.

2:31:19>> Yeah, leave it in.

2:31:20>> Okay. Okay. All right. U next page.

2:31:24Civil penalties. We are we are a little

2:31:27bit limited on our civil penalties. Uh

2:31:29Andrew and I have talked about this

2:31:32statutoily in a development regulation.

2:31:35The most we can charge right now. The

2:31:38way the ordinance is written, it's $200

2:31:40a day for every day it's in violation.

2:31:42That's nothing to these folks.

2:31:44>> Okay. The most we can charge is $500 a

2:31:47day. That's still nothing to these

2:31:49folks.

2:31:50>> Yeah. Um so we are looking into

2:31:54uh creating a heavy impact land use and

2:31:58that's defined

2:32:00um

2:32:01we put a definition in there heavy

2:32:04impact land use of commercial and

2:32:06industrial property owner or entity

2:32:08wherein the administrative cost of

2:32:10enforcement of the zoning ordinance will

2:32:12be significantly higher than other land

2:32:15uses. Therefore the civil penalty cost

2:32:17should be higher. We're going to try to

2:32:19research and see what we can do with

2:32:21respect to raising it up not

2:32:23specifically for data centers but for

2:32:27heavy impact land use.

2:32:29>> I think that's a good idea. I mean

2:32:31that's those are nothing like you said

2:32:33today.

2:32:33>> Absolutely. And we

2:32:34>> it up as high as we can do it

2:32:36>> right something that'll get their

2:32:38attention. So we're going to do research

2:32:41and try to figure that out and see what

2:32:42we can do.

2:32:43>> I'm not talking about thousands. I'm

2:32:45talking about tens of thousands and

2:32:47maybe hundreds of thousands

2:32:49>> for violation.

2:32:51>> There's some really steep daily fines in

2:32:53the in the the solid waste. Now, let me

2:32:56back up. Sorry. In the the wastewater

2:32:58>> Yeah.

2:32:59>> What the health department and what DEEQ

2:33:01what they can do, those are those are

2:33:03big fines. As far as I can tell with the

2:33:06zoning regulation, we are limited to

2:33:08500. Now, we're gonna we're going to

2:33:10see, but for now, it's 500. That's more

2:33:13than we charge. We've we've never

2:33:14charged more than what 300 200 300

2:33:16>> 200 a day.

2:33:17>> And we also don't want to pass that 500

2:33:20on to

2:33:21Jimmy land owner who's just got high

2:33:23grass and some cars. We're not passing

2:33:25it on to him.

2:33:26>> Yeah.

2:33:26>> We're putting that on the high impact

2:33:27land users who have to go to court and

2:33:29litigate

2:33:30>> and it's long and drawn out, expensive,

2:33:33timeconuming. So that's that's the the

2:33:35idea behind that. If we can raise

2:33:36>> I mean I think that's a really good

2:33:38idea. Just just get it as high as you

2:33:40can possibly get it.

2:33:42>> Okay.

2:33:44All right. Um,

2:33:46that's the end of my shind dig, folks.

2:33:49>> So soon. That's a lot. So

2:33:51>> soon. That was so quick. [laughter]

2:33:55>> Been a lot of work.

2:33:57>> Did you write it as quickly as you

2:33:58printed [laughter] it or presented it?

2:34:04>> Yeah.

2:34:06>> Okay.

2:34:07>> Do y'all want a 10-minute recess?

2:34:09>> Yeah, I'd like that. I mean, getting the

2:34:11old man as a group would be

2:34:13>> okay.

2:34:13>> I'd love to very reasonable.

2:34:15>> We're going to take about a 10m minute

2:34:17recess and then we'll reconvene.

2:34:19>> All right,

2:34:21folks. We're back in session now.

2:34:24I'll uh I'll call us back to order.

2:34:29[clears throat] We'll uh we'd like to

2:34:30get started and we'll get on out of here

2:34:32as fast as possible. Uh should be out in

2:34:35the next two or three hours. [laughter]

2:34:39Um,

2:34:41okay. Having uh gone through the uh

2:34:44proposed text amendments, at this time,

2:34:47if there's anyone who would like to

2:34:49address the board, um, if you would come

2:34:52forward. Um, if you would state your

2:34:55name and address for the record and just

2:34:58try to be concise.

2:35:00>> Good evening. This is my first planning

2:35:02and zoning meeting and I'm very pleased.

2:35:05>> Welcome.

2:35:06>> Thank you so much. My name is Janine

2:35:07Spudo at my 361 Westgate Court in

2:35:10Lexington.

2:35:11I want to commend all of you for the job

2:35:14that you have done tonight. Every

2:35:17question that I've had I had in my mind

2:35:20and on my phone was addressed and

2:35:22answered. There are two things that I'd

2:35:24like to just state that I think you

2:35:27should really revisit.

2:35:29I live at 361 Westgate and a quarter

2:35:31mile up the road is the Williams Transco

2:35:34compressor station. That's here in

2:35:35Davidson County and they're currently

2:35:38quadrupling the size of it. And on any

2:35:41given night, you can sit on my front

2:35:43porch and literally hear the turbines

2:35:46whining from that compressor station.

2:35:49That's 1326 ft.

2:35:53I have video [clears throat] of it. I

2:35:55can let you listen to it if you'd like,

2:35:57but it's loud. It's obnoxious and it's

2:36:00annoying. So a setback of 1,000 feet

2:36:04that you spoke about or 500 feet, if

2:36:07it's going to be near residential land,

2:36:08I think it should be a lot more than 500

2:36:13ft. And that's from my personal

2:36:15experience. I know technology is

2:36:17different with data centers and gas

2:36:18plants, but I really think you should

2:36:20take that under advisement from a a

2:36:23citizen who's living through it right

2:36:24now, that noise. The other thing is the

2:36:29burm and the planting of the burm. If

2:36:33Trans Williams would just put some

2:36:34trees, you have to see what we witness

2:36:37every day. What this residential area

2:36:40looks like because of what's there right

2:36:42now.

2:36:43>> There's not a tree to be seen. It's a

2:36:46mess. It's a complete and utter mess. I

2:36:48have pictures of it. So, if you can just

2:36:51consider planting the burm and putting

2:36:55vegetation and trees around an

2:36:57industrial site to make it look like it

2:36:59belongs where it's going would be would

2:37:03be helpful, I believe, to the process.

2:37:06Other than that, I just commend you all.

2:37:08Thank you for trying to protect the

2:37:10citizens of Davidson County. You're

2:37:11doing a really good job.

2:37:12>> Thank you.

2:37:13>> Thank you,

2:37:14>> Lee. That may be a good study to go out

2:37:16there and do your noise meter.

2:37:19in her driveway.

2:37:20>> The noise meter above 55 constantly.

2:37:24>> Okay.

2:37:25>> Yeah. Once they develop the rest of it,

2:37:27>> it's not even finished.

2:37:28>> Yeah. It's not even finished yet.

2:37:30>> Okay. So So you're off of Becky Hill

2:37:32Road. Is that

2:37:33>> Yeah. And what you're

2:37:36>> Okay. What you're hearing is not

2:37:39construction, but regular operations

2:37:41>> when they're not even

2:37:42>> Yeah. They're not even working.

2:37:44>> Okay. on on top of all the construction

2:37:46noise that we hear during the day.

2:37:48>> That's is that the generation the power

2:37:50generation turbines that are going?

2:37:52>> That's what we we figure. We don't know

2:37:54for sure, but that's what we're

2:37:55assuming.

2:37:56>> They're they're constructing these

2:37:58buildings now overnight they go up. It's

2:38:00unbelievable. You see from one day

2:38:02[clears throat] to the next how quickly

2:38:04it happens.

2:38:05>> Um I have pictures, I have video, I have

2:38:08all I've contacted DEEQ, but there's not

2:38:10really much that they they're doing.

2:38:14Structurally, I don't know that we can

2:38:16do anything with this

2:38:17>> with this since it's specifically for

2:38:19data centers. It's something we may have

2:38:21to revisit and we can get somebody out

2:38:23there to to get some noise levels

2:38:25>> that I had being 1326 feet away and

2:38:29hearing all of this, depending on what

2:38:31type of data center it is and what

2:38:33they're using, you know, to power that,

2:38:36you're going to you're what you visited,

2:38:38I think, is going to be a little bit

2:38:39different than what we hear.

2:38:41>> Yeah. cuz I've been there.

2:38:43>> The only safety that we have in the

2:38:45document is presented, it can't be but

2:38:4755 dB at their property line.

2:38:50>> Yeah. So it it's can be about what we

2:38:52heard tonight at their property line.

2:38:54Right.

2:38:54>> So if it's louder than that, if this is

2:38:57adopted in this form,

2:38:59>> what you're experiencing probably would

2:39:01not be allowed. It would be a violation

2:39:02of because we could stand at their

2:39:04property line with a with a decel meter

2:39:06and if it's 70 there, you're in

2:39:09violation. Tone it down. Mhm.

2:39:11>> So,

2:39:11>> how would they tone it down though?

2:39:13>> Well, I don't know about

2:39:15>> they'd have to build potentially.

2:39:18>> Anyway,

2:39:19>> you'd have to build additional

2:39:21soundproofing by whatever. Yeah, they'd

2:39:24hire engineers to figure out a way to do

2:39:26that. So, if they were in violation,

2:39:28that would be the thing. We've talked to

2:39:30some site acquisition folks for these

2:39:32data centers and they didn't even blink

2:39:35an eye at a 500t setback and they said

2:39:37with with that and some sound deadening

2:39:40uh structures around there they make it

2:39:43unperceptible at the lot line where you

2:39:45can't even hardly hear it

2:39:46>> that you can't hear it.

2:39:48>> So that there's technologies available

2:39:51uh for that.

2:39:53>> Yeah. And the site you're talking about

2:39:54at your house, I've been by it when we

2:39:55did we've done subdivision down the

2:39:57Becky Hill. Uh and um

2:40:01I did happen to notice that when you're

2:40:03riding down the road, all of a sudden

2:40:04you're like, "Wow, that thing's big."

2:40:06And there I didn't even know it was down

2:40:07there till we started doing work. And

2:40:10>> I can imagine the noise, but uh I guess

2:40:14that was be they operate outside of some

2:40:17of our regulation with what they

2:40:19>> have to look.

2:40:20>> Yeah.

2:40:21We asked the county commissioners if

2:40:22they would write a memorandum to plant a

2:40:25few trees there or something, but we

2:40:26don't know where that ever went or

2:40:28>> who was in charge of it or whatever.

2:40:30>> Have you gotten decel readings on? Yeah.

2:40:33>> Using your phone?

2:40:34>> Yeah.

2:40:38>> You hear the whining?

2:40:40>> Mhm.

2:40:41>> Oh, those high pitch sounds they carry

2:40:43more than lower frequency.

2:40:45>> Well, no, the the low the lowest

2:40:47>> they carry further. They carry further,

2:40:49but they're not as

2:40:51>> annoying.

2:40:51>> Yeah. Annoying. That's

2:40:52>> the longer wavelengths of the lower

2:40:54wavelengths are the hard ones to stop.

2:40:56>> Yeah.

2:40:57>> They're they're think about a a car with

2:40:59loud music going down the road. The only

2:41:01thing you hear is the bass.

2:41:03>> That's all you hear because that's the

2:41:04longer lower wavelength.

2:41:08>> Thank you for

2:41:08>> Thank you, ma'am. Thank you.

2:41:12>> Or [laughter]

2:41:14the same thing she's hearing. And I'm so

2:41:17>> Yeah.

2:41:19Um,

2:41:20>> and I too want to commend you guys. I

2:41:22think you guys are thoughtful. You guys

2:41:24are thinking ahead, which is great.

2:41:26>> Um, and I think that you got to realize

2:41:28one thing.

2:41:29>> These data centers, their pockets are so

2:41:32deep, you can't even imagine,

2:41:33>> right?

2:41:34>> You know, and these people are looking

2:41:35at us like these hicks, we could just do

2:41:37whatever we want to these guys. And they

2:41:38>> would you mind stating your name and

2:41:40address, please?

2:41:40>> Sure. Gary.

2:41:41>> Thank you, Gary.

2:41:42>> Ori.

2:41:43And I'm at 361 Westgate Court.

2:41:45>> Thank you, sir.

2:41:46>> All right. Um, so, so, so my my point of

2:41:50view is if this is going to happen,

2:41:52which it's not going to provide many

2:41:54jobs because we all know I've spoken to

2:41:56some of these places, some of these

2:41:58people

2:41:58>> and basically the custodial staff is

2:42:01probably the biggest biggest employment

2:42:03they're going to have there because it

2:42:05literally takes three guys to just make

2:42:06sure everything's plugged in and

2:42:08everything's running according to

2:42:10schedule. You know, [clears throat] once

2:42:11it's once it's set up and and built,

2:42:14it's it's a very lowmaintenance type of

2:42:16job. you know, it's just like somebody's

2:42:18there making sure the lights are on and

2:42:19everything's running good. Um, so as far

2:42:22as jobs, even even at the Transport

2:42:24Pipeline, they told us we're going to

2:42:26have so many jobs. Unfortunately, there

2:42:28are quite a few jobs as they're building

2:42:29it cuz there's a lot of steam fitters

2:42:31and welders and stuff like that, but

2:42:33they're all from Texas. There's not one

2:42:35car from North Carolina in that parking

2:42:37lot. There's 150 cars, but not one of

2:42:40them are from here.

2:42:41>> Yeah.

2:42:42>> So, and we want to protect jobs. We want

2:42:44to get jobs, but yet that's not how

2:42:46we're going to do it. So,

2:42:47>> right,

2:42:47>> the other thing that worries me is that

2:42:49the minute you say that Davidson County

2:42:51has a data center, you're going to be

2:42:53turning away a lot of people who might

2:42:55want to come here and move down here

2:42:57because the word data center right now

2:43:00all across the country, it's it's a bad

2:43:03word.

2:43:04>> 70% of the country, actually, it's

2:43:06probably more like 75% of this country

2:43:08doesn't want to live near one. Doesn't

2:43:10want to be next to one. They don't want

2:43:12to hear about it. They don't want to

2:43:13know nothing about data centers. So, the

2:43:16minute one comes in here, it's gonna

2:43:18it's going to mess up people's, you

2:43:20know, the environment is going to get

2:43:22messed up. The housing market's going to

2:43:24get messed up. And like I was saying, I

2:43:26own stock in all those companies that

2:43:28are building these things. So, in the

2:43:29end, it's going to be good for me

2:43:31somewhere along the line. But I'm more

2:43:33concerned about my community. I'm more

2:43:35concerned about my environment. I'm more

2:43:37concerned about the Yakin River that I

2:43:38hear. People are telling me they could

2:43:40literally walk through the Yakan River.

2:43:42It's like knee deep now. I mean, where

2:43:45it used to be hip deep, now it's knee

2:43:46deep, you know? So, that concerns me to

2:43:49no end. So, all of these little things,

2:43:51I mean, like you said, we can't make

2:43:53more water, you know. We're at we're

2:43:54just And with climate change, you know,

2:43:57things could happen, things could get

2:43:58hotter. If things get hotter and these

2:44:00things get built, they're going to add

2:44:02to the the to the CO2 and the carbon

2:44:04that it's in the atmosphere, and it's

2:44:06just going to make things even worse.

2:44:08And as far as the burm is concerned, the

2:44:10burm can be built 40t high. I was a

2:44:12landscaper most of my life. The burm can

2:44:15be built 40t high, but on the top of the

2:44:17burm, you don't build a round. You don't

2:44:19build a round like burm like sort of

2:44:21like that. You kind of flatten the top

2:44:23of it. So the trees could be planted on

2:44:25top. The best tree probably for the job

2:44:27would be a green giant. What's called a

2:44:29green giant. It's an arborite. And that

2:44:31tree grows to about another 35 ft. So

2:44:34and it stays green all year long. So, if

2:44:36you want sound barrier, that might be

2:44:38one of the best things you could do as

2:44:40opposed to a deciduous tree, which in

2:44:41the winter, like he was saying, you're

2:44:43going to hear a lot more noise and see a

2:44:45lot more in the winter time. With

2:44:46deciduous trees, it's not to say you

2:44:48shouldn't plant some, you can. And I

2:44:51think you should let them pay for

2:44:52everything. You should let them pay for

2:44:54their water. They should pay for their

2:44:56landscaping. They should pay for

2:44:58whatever roads and whatever, you know,

2:45:00other things they might need. And as far

2:45:02as their energy, that should come right

2:45:03out of their bottom line because they're

2:45:06all in cahoots with these with these

2:45:08utility companies and they should work

2:45:10out their own deals and leave the public

2:45:12out of it, not tax the public and not

2:45:15raise our rates as far as that goes also

2:45:17because that's what they do. They come

2:45:19in all of a sudden now they have no more

2:45:21capacity. So what are these companies

2:45:23going to do? They're going to raise the

2:45:24private people, you know, private homes.

2:45:26They're going to have to raise their

2:45:27rates because they can only make so much

2:45:29energy. You know, Duke wants to build

2:45:31two more big power plants. If these

2:45:34things come in on scale and and these

2:45:36mega sites, these mega mega data sites,

2:45:40you there's not enough power in the

2:45:42world. That's why they're talking about

2:45:43nuclear power now. They need nuclear

2:45:45power. That's how much energy these

2:45:47things use up. So as far as just future

2:45:51things going and the fining, you got to

2:45:53make sure when the lawyers get involved,

2:45:55make sure that we are not liable for

2:45:57anything because if they screw up, they

2:46:00have the money to pay for it. Why should

2:46:02we be responsible? The lawyer the

2:46:04lawyers may have to make sure that

2:46:05things are ironclad that if they

2:46:07renegade on a deal or if they screw

2:46:09something up on a deal, they have to pay

2:46:11for it. They should be fined heavily.

2:46:13They should be taxed heavily and they

2:46:16should be, you know, it should never

2:46:17come out of the the the public's pocket

2:46:20as far as I'm concerned. And that's

2:46:23basically all I want to say. You guys

2:46:24are doing a good job. Keep thinking

2:46:26ahead. And don't forget these site these

2:46:28data chips only last four years and then

2:46:31they're they're absolute. Imagine four

2:46:33years and then they have to spend

2:46:34hundreds of millions of dollars to

2:46:36upgrade to the newest model. So there's

2:46:39a lot of turnover and it's just they

2:46:42should pay for everything because in the

2:46:44end I'm going to make a lot of money

2:46:45with their stocks [laughter]

2:46:49there and have clean drinking water.

2:46:51>> There you go.

2:46:51>> Thank you so much.

2:46:52>> Thank you. [laughter]

2:46:57Oh, yeah.

2:47:00[snorts]

2:47:02>> Um, again, I thought everybody did a

2:47:05great job and I still wanted to go over

2:47:07some things that I've been looking into

2:47:09that I don't think were addressed as

2:47:10part of the plan.

2:47:11>> Name and address, please.

2:47:12>> Sher Herbert, 1182 Scout Road.

2:47:16Um I know you intentionally left out the

2:47:18amendment um having to do that you

2:47:21thought that the utilities regulation

2:47:23would regulate itself but for what I'm

2:47:25seeing the trend seems to be that a lot

2:47:27of these data centers are building their

2:47:28own power plants on site

2:47:31>> and this does not seem this text doesn't

2:47:34seem to address that at all

2:47:36>> that seems to be a big issue and a huge

2:47:38emission. Well, the the the power

2:47:40generation, ancillary power generation

2:47:42is subject to these same rules.

2:47:45>> It's already in the ordinance.

2:47:46>> It's already Yeah.

2:47:48>> So, with the decibb and stuff, but from

2:47:50what I see, Louden and all those other

2:47:52counties are specifying what kind of

2:47:55generators they can use.

2:47:58>> Um,

2:48:00don't know if we want to, you know,

2:48:02cross that line. if if they're if

2:48:05they're doing on-site power generation

2:48:07for fulltime use

2:48:09>> and that also has a lot of air

2:48:11pollutants and other things that go on

2:48:12with that that's not this doesn't really

2:48:14seem to address air pollution at all.

2:48:16>> In my interpretation that would be

2:48:19included in this because it

2:48:21>> it broadly categorizes anything to the

2:48:25data center whether that's power

2:48:27generation whether it's emergency power

2:48:29or full-time power that's the way we

2:48:31would interpret it. Now, no, we we

2:48:33haven't spoke to to any type of

2:48:36pollution in this document.

2:48:38>> Um, does does the state regulate p

2:48:42permanent or constant air quality permit

2:48:46and and do all of those things?

2:48:48>> So, there would be a state level to make

2:48:49sure that that that power generation

2:48:52meets environmental requirements

2:48:54>> that

2:48:55>> Yes. Well, and and like cube hydro and

2:48:58I'm not sure the level to the well the

2:49:01extent to which they're subject to

2:49:03utilities commission but they are

2:49:06subject to pera they're subject to you

2:49:08know all those federal regulations like

2:49:10the lensure would so and I obviously

2:49:13it's a big facility so I don't know if

2:49:15it you know like a

2:49:16>> we definitely look yeah we can we can

2:49:18look into it I mean it's

2:49:19>> it seems like Lden County seems to be

2:49:21like the role model I mean they you know

2:49:23with everything that's going on and it

2:49:25seems like

2:49:27>> experienced all the problems and are

2:49:29trying to resolve the issues from those

2:49:32problems and so they're moving towards

2:49:35um stating that they definitely want

2:49:37closed loop and a sealed closed loop not

2:49:40just closed loop.

2:49:42>> Yeah.

2:49:42>> But and and having it be PFAS free.

2:49:46>> Yes. And those are the kind of

2:49:48considerations I think that you should

2:49:50be looking at as well to stop the

2:49:53problem before it is a problem.

2:49:55>> Sure.

2:49:55>> Yeah. Um, we talked about the auxiliary

2:49:57power when we were talking about noise

2:50:00and I that's a concern that I have is

2:50:02knowing that there are those situations

2:50:04where they're using essentially using

2:50:06their auxiliary power

2:50:09>> and [clears throat]

2:50:09>> for permanent and and so I do think

2:50:12that's rampant not just at louden but at

2:50:15all over the place everybody's always

2:50:17complaining about that that that seems

2:50:19to be their mode of operation is they

2:50:21say they're one going to do one thing

2:50:22and then they come in and they start

2:50:23running a gazillion backup generators.

2:50:27And it seems most people are saying that

2:50:30for the backup generation that they're

2:50:32requiring they have be EPA tier 4

2:50:35standard backup generators but I don't

2:50:37see any kind of regulation that you've

2:50:40indicated that and that they have to be

2:50:42only used for backup and emergency only.

2:50:45They limit the testing times and day

2:50:47days and times require annual testing

2:50:50and public reporting and they have

2:50:52significant violations. Louden count is

2:50:54$2,000 a day and they can revoke their

2:50:56seal for repeated violations.

2:51:00>> Virginia is a little bit different

2:51:01because they're enabling statutes. We

2:51:03have to do things according to North

2:51:05Carolina statute now. So we can't uh do

2:51:08exactly everything they're doing. But

2:51:09it's something very good point and we'll

2:51:11we need to look at

2:51:12>> Can you revoke a CO if there's if there

2:51:14is repeated violations? Can you

2:51:17>> if there's a violation of our rules?

2:51:19Yes.

2:51:20>> I think Randolph County had something

2:51:27Well, they just required I know um they

2:51:30they're well that was one thing. So

2:51:33that's just my concern about the actual

2:51:36backup generators and things of that

2:51:38issue. PFAS free entire system should be

2:51:41a closed loop. So it seems like closed

2:51:43loops is a little bit general when

2:51:45you're talking about closed loop. It

2:51:46seems like everybody's moving to

2:51:47specifying

2:51:49the minimum type of closed loop.

2:51:55And when you have the closed loop, they

2:51:56still have to um

2:51:59>> to test

2:52:00>> have wastewater treatment has to be

2:52:02approved beforehand because there's a

2:52:04blow down waste water that comes out of

2:52:06a closed loop system. I know it's not a

2:52:08lot, but is Davidson Zoo County even

2:52:10prepared for that? Can they treat that

2:52:12kind of water?

2:52:14>> That that's something that the either

2:52:16the state level or or local uh

2:52:18environmental health or our sewer.

2:52:21They'd have to be on our public sewer

2:52:23system.

2:52:24>> Has there been any exploration with

2:52:27with if Davidson County right now can

2:52:31treat waste black that blow down waste

2:52:34water? Well, they it it would be up to

2:52:36the city of Thomasville, the city of

2:52:38Winston. We we don't have a treatment

2:52:40facility as per for Davidson County. Uh

2:52:44we we have contracts with sewer

2:52:47providers,

2:52:48>> right?

2:52:48>> So that's that would be a conversation

2:52:49that they would have to have, but I know

2:52:51without a doubt that they're the the

2:52:54sewer providers know what's coming to

2:52:57them as per the treatment. Uh so that

2:53:00they know how to treat the the water.

2:53:03They they'll require pre-treatment too

2:53:05if it's if necessary before they'll even

2:53:07accept it. So that gets figured out on

2:53:09the front end.

2:53:09>> Yeah.

2:53:10>> And then I I know you had mentioned

2:53:12about sound and vibration studies. It

2:53:15seems off county and a lot of these

2:53:17facilities are having problem with the

2:53:19low frequency which you mentioned

2:53:21briefly

2:53:22>> versus just the overall now. Is that

2:53:24what you're referring to as seaweed? Is

2:53:26low frequency the same as C- weighted?

2:53:28C- weighted is

2:53:31[snorts] C- weighted is a fuller

2:53:32spectrum of wavelength. So, it does get

2:53:35into some vibration.

2:53:38They're always higher than than a

2:53:40weighted. Um A-weed is just the audible

2:53:43range that you can hear.

2:53:46Well, it seems that again from other

2:53:49people having um residents complaining

2:53:51about noise that the trend is to look

2:53:56more into the low frequency.

2:53:58>> Well,

2:53:58>> so should we include some type of a low

2:54:00frequency study as part of that study?

2:54:03Randolph County does require that

2:54:05pre-construction sound modeling for low

2:54:08LFN.

2:54:09>> That may be something we need to look

2:54:11into. and they proactively address

2:54:13anticipated noise impacts through their

2:54:15site design, structural mitigation,

2:54:16equipment placement, and other

2:54:17techniques, post construction, no noise

2:54:21studies prior to the issuance of the

2:54:23occupancy. I know you have some of that

2:54:25wording, but it seems that the low

2:54:28frequency seems to be a real issue.

2:54:32We can maybe add some of some of that

2:54:34language to sound levels one or um two

2:54:38pre- construction ambient noise study

2:54:40prepared by a licensed engineer will be

2:54:42required as part of the application.

2:54:43Study will show baseline ambient noise

2:54:45level property line measuring existing

2:54:47noise levels on site before

2:54:49construction. The study will include

2:54:52modeling and simulate future noise

2:54:54impacts and plans for mitigation.

2:55:01Maybe we could put some language in

2:55:02there specifically about uh low

2:55:05frequencies.

2:55:06Um

2:55:09I thought between this and the um this

2:55:13and the the vibration standards

2:55:16uh we would would have it covered. But

2:55:18that's that's duly noted.

2:55:20>> Um in part of the decommissioning plan,

2:55:22how come you don't have the complete

2:55:24structural demolition? I mean shouldn't

2:55:26there be something? It seems like I'm

2:55:28looking around Lexington now and I just

2:55:30see a lot of vacant factories are

2:55:33abandoned. I'm assuming somebody still

2:55:35owns that, but they're not doing

2:55:37anything with them. So, isn't there

2:55:38something that should be done so that

2:55:39doesn't happen in the future when, as

2:55:41you said, this technology is just

2:55:44continuing to improve? And I just wonder

2:55:4720 years, 30 years from now, are you

2:55:49going to just have a lot of white

2:55:50elephants out there if you don't make

2:55:53part of the actual the whole structure

2:55:55should be removed? if it's not going to

2:55:58be recommissioned by somebody else for a

2:56:01data center use.

2:56:02>> Well, that it's it's a matter of whether

2:56:05you want to regulate

2:56:08whether you might be able to repurpose

2:56:09these buildings for something. That's

2:56:11the thought process behind not requiring

2:56:13the buildings to be torn down. These are

2:56:16big vast buildings that can be

2:56:18repurposed for almost anything. Um, so

2:56:22that you just have to get into a

2:56:24philosophy of whether you want to

2:56:25regulate it and try to put it back in

2:56:27its original condition. Whether that's

2:56:30reasonable or if you take everything

2:56:33that makes it a data center out of it,

2:56:36but you still have the structure, you

2:56:37could potentially repurpose it for a

2:56:39different use.

2:56:40>> From what I saw, I've seen most people

2:56:41included the structure actually being

2:56:43removed. So, has there been any

2:56:46>> further exploration as to what is common

2:56:48place when it comes to these

2:56:49decommission plans?

2:56:51>> I'm not sure you would want to

2:56:54>> It seems most people do is all I'm

2:56:56saying from what I've seen.

2:56:57>> Yeah. What I was able to locate online

2:57:00demolish the building. Maybe there's

2:57:01certain cases where you would need to,

2:57:04but the reason for that is, you know,

2:57:07where you going to put it? It's not

2:57:09hurting nothing sitting there right

2:57:10there. If you tear it down, you got to

2:57:11bury it. Then we got more landfills,

2:57:14more places to put that stuff that takes

2:57:17up more space when it might be usable

2:57:20again. So, I do agree that potentially

2:57:23leaving the building is possibly a good

2:57:25idea unless maybe a certain amount of

2:57:27time it just never gets used, but not

2:57:30demolishing it immediately because

2:57:33[clears throat]

2:57:33>> I would say immediately, but I'm just

2:57:35thinking, you know,

2:57:36>> yeah, but it's just one more thing to

2:57:38find a place to bury and we all know how

2:57:41complicated that can be to to dispose of

2:57:44waste like that. I mean that's that's

2:57:46>> LCIDs are hard to permit and

2:57:49>> and other municipalities talking about

2:57:52disposing of waste other municipalities

2:57:54put in their ordinance that they do want

2:57:55to see because they are replacing

2:57:57equipment every 3 years or so. So a lot

2:58:00of service and they have a lot of um I

2:58:02guess fire prevention um chemicals and

2:58:06things of that nature are coming out of

2:58:09there. a lot of environmental waste and

2:58:11so they all I shouldn't say they all but

2:58:14there seems to be a going on ongoing

2:58:16trend to requiring that a licensed

2:58:20recycling

2:58:22um facility is used for that.

2:58:27>> Sure.

2:58:27>> So that they're not dumping it or

2:58:29burying it on site or doing things of

2:58:31that nature.

2:58:31>> There are regulations that probably

2:58:33already speak to that. I don't know that

2:58:34this is the venue for that um per se.

2:58:38I'm just just things that I've seen that

2:58:40other municipalities are doing that

2:58:42sounded like they were good ideas to me.

2:58:45Another one was other municipalities are

2:58:47also um requiring that they have ambient

2:58:50air quality monitors

2:58:52along that setback.

2:58:54>> And there again, you you get into do we

2:58:57want to have a redundant

2:59:00the state's already going to be doing

2:59:02that. They're going to be doing air

2:59:04quality testing anyways. uh along with

2:59:06the environmental assessment and all

2:59:08that it it it boils down to the fact it

2:59:10seems whether you want to touch on every

2:59:13single thing that some jurisdictions are

2:59:15touching on.

2:59:16>> Well, it seems like the reason that a

2:59:17lot of municipalities are requiring that

2:59:19EPA tier 4 tier 4 standard for the

2:59:22backup generator is to eliminate

2:59:25concerns about

2:59:27pollution.

2:59:29And it's my understanding Davidson

2:59:31County is already kind of high on that

2:59:32spectrum which I was not aware of.

2:59:38What do you mean? What do you mean that

2:59:39Davidson County is high on

2:59:41>> particular matters?

2:59:43>> Air air quality.

2:59:44>> Air quality.

2:59:45>> Well, I thought that's what you were

2:59:46saying, but I just couldn't understand.

2:59:47You said, um,

2:59:48>> well, is that that's what I've been told

2:59:50from other organizations that we're just

2:59:52below the limit as it is. And they

2:59:55>> I think that's accurate. Um and then

2:59:57other municipalities again are

2:59:59designating actual no build zones for

3:00:01these types of facilities to protect

3:00:04their rivers, lakes, and public drinking

3:00:06reservoirs.

3:00:10>> Has that been considered?

3:00:11>> Is that something we would consider

3:00:13during the land use plan committee that

3:00:16we may be putting together before long?

3:00:18Is there something they could talk about

3:00:20as I

3:00:21>> I'm [clears throat] sure this topic will

3:00:22rise to a level of regulatory

3:00:26worth in the zone in the upcoming uh

3:00:28land development plan. Yeah. Rewrite

3:00:32>> and that that may be something that can

3:00:33be recommended out of that plan.

3:00:36>> And so again, just in researching the

3:00:39zoning ordinance, everything I read

3:00:40stresses community engagement, proactive

3:00:42outreach to residents should begin early

3:00:44before zoning changes are proposed. And

3:00:47so I just think that there should be

3:00:48more opportunities. So from everybody I

3:00:50talk to, nobody even knows what's going

3:00:52on here. So really alert the residents

3:00:55um that this is going on so that you can

3:00:58really have valid input so that when you

3:01:00get your first person coming in then

3:01:03there's not the big uproar. Everybody's

3:01:05aware. It was all out in the open.

3:01:07Everybody had their chance to speak. And

3:01:10that doesn't seem to be happening. And

3:01:11I'd like to see more dialogue.

3:01:14>> That's what that's what tonight was

3:01:15about.

3:01:15>> I know. But I can tell you

3:01:19>> I can tell you there's a lot more people

3:01:20in Davidson County

3:01:22[gasps] that would be here tonight if

3:01:24they knew about it. Not everybody looks

3:01:26at the website. Not everybody looks at

3:01:27Facebook. It just seems like there

3:01:29should be more of an effort

3:01:30>> to have more public hearings and try to

3:01:33be as transparent as I could, but that's

3:01:35what's taking

3:01:36>> And that's why I'm here.

3:01:37>> Trying to get trying to get the word

3:01:38out.

3:01:38>> That's why I'm here because I I did hear

3:01:40it there and I appreciate that. But I'm

3:01:42just saying that I think more public

3:01:45outreach would prevent uh a lot of

3:01:48concerns down the road.

3:01:50>> Sure.

3:01:52>> Thank you.

3:01:53>> Thank you. Thank you.

3:01:54>> Can I ask one question?

3:01:56>> Oh, I'm sorry. I'm so sorry. I'm heading

3:01:58to you. Go ahead.

3:02:02>> My name is Don Hash. I live in Davidson

3:02:04County. And gentlemen, I would like to

3:02:06tell you how impressed I am. And I am

3:02:09truly impressed. Let's make sure you

3:02:11hear me. I'm impressed with how your

3:02:13thoughtful process is and that you're

3:02:16not hurrying. And I'm going to ask you

3:02:18all to understand this comes from my

3:02:20heart. I didn't write nothing down. I

3:02:22observed each one of your statements and

3:02:24how you made a testimony in front of us

3:02:27that none of you know anything about

3:02:30this data center. I appreciate your your

3:02:33truthfulness.

3:02:35You've made the statement. Not everybody

3:02:37knows. The attorney doesn't even know.

3:02:40So, we're all flying blindly. And I'm

3:02:43going to ask you to put the brakes on

3:02:45and not be pushed into this situation.

3:02:49In my opinion, it's a beast system and

3:02:51and we're ushering it in just as quick

3:02:53as you can do it. And somebody's trying

3:02:54to ramride it down our throats. And that

3:02:58is um Yates and Watford and Shell. And

3:03:01I'll name them because I'm highly

3:03:03concerned. I don't want you making a

3:03:06decision based on being bullied or being

3:03:09intimidated. I want you to do it

3:03:11thoughtful because we've all heard your

3:03:13testimony. None of us know anything

3:03:15about this. The attorney doesn't know.

3:03:18And if he does, he needs to stand up and

3:03:20say, "I know everything 100% he

3:03:22doesn't."

3:03:24I say this because I'm a great

3:03:26grandmother and what decisions you make

3:03:29affect the future of our grandchildren.

3:03:32Which one of you would like to tell the

3:03:35hospitals down here you have to close

3:03:37down because the data center has to have

3:03:40the water?

3:03:43Humanity must take precedent

3:03:46over a data center.

3:03:49It's incumbent upon this body of

3:03:52governing power and you have power to

3:03:55make in those regs that humans take

3:03:59precedent over data centers

3:04:02and it should be in there and I implore

3:04:05you to put it in there and how dare you

3:04:07not even think about it and I'm not even

3:04:10upset with you but I want to know which

3:04:13one of you want to close down the

3:04:15intensive care unit or the old people's

3:04:17home because there is No water.

3:04:20>> Which one of you want to walk the

3:04:21hallways

3:04:23and decide which one dies and which one

3:04:26stays?

3:04:28Some of you will say that won't happen.

3:04:30Please, you just made a statement.

3:04:34You're not going to let them.

3:04:37If you had to tell them to shut it down

3:04:39temporarily, they're not going to want

3:04:41to do it. [snorts]

3:04:43But I'm here to tell you, as a great

3:04:45grandmother, every life matters to me. I

3:04:48love Davidson County

3:04:51[snorts]

3:04:52and I'm standing here looking at you

3:04:54courageous men

3:04:57and I want to honor you because you

3:04:58didn't mistreat the women.

3:05:02You gave us your your attention. You

3:05:05gave us the opportunity to speak on

3:05:07behalf of our community, black or white,

3:05:10rich or poor.

3:05:14And if you were ever in a courtroom

3:05:15happen to testify, young man, and you

3:05:18brought in that $600 meter,

3:05:21if you're not credentialed, the judge

3:05:23would just laugh you out of the court.

3:05:25>> Thank you for the young man comment.

3:05:26>> Thank you. [laughter]

3:05:28And your attorney knows that.

3:05:30But I want you to know the calibration.

3:05:32I would I would run you out of the

3:05:34courtroom on that. I would want to know

3:05:36your credentials. I would want to know

3:05:38how long you've been credential. I want

3:05:40to know the last person that

3:05:41credentialed that that that uh little

3:05:43$600 thing. I know you're doing the best

3:05:46you can. I appreciate it. I am

3:05:48overwhelmed with his integrity to go

3:05:50out,

3:05:52but none of you, including the county

3:05:55commissioners, have ever walked through

3:05:56a data center. None of you. If I had you

3:06:00in a deposition,

3:06:03what would you tell me? You look to the

3:06:06floor and you'd have to testify. And

3:06:08ma'am, we didn't go. We just listened.

3:06:11Now, he's as good as his testimony is,

3:06:15but you listened to him. But you didn't

3:06:16go. You didn't go on a trip. I am here

3:06:19to tell you, I want just like with a

3:06:22doctor, I want a second opinion. I want

3:06:24a third opinion. I want five different

3:06:26opinions of five different locations.

3:06:28Then I know you've done your due

3:06:30diligence.

3:06:31Why don't you all get on the train

3:06:33together and go ride the train and go

3:06:36look at yourself so you can testify to

3:06:39the community and to our grandchildren

3:06:41that you did the best you can with what

3:06:44you had. But as long as you're sitting

3:06:47there, nobody nobody's been in one. But

3:06:50they want to ramrod this down before the

3:06:52election. H that's interesting, isn't

3:06:56it?

3:06:58I'm going to ask you, compel you for our

3:07:01great grandchildren,

3:07:04for your mothers, your your

3:07:06grandmothers,

3:07:09hold the brakes.

3:07:12What is it going to hurt to hold the

3:07:14brakes?

3:07:17Somebody has said and made the statement

3:07:18tonight, "Well, we can't stop them." I

3:07:21have yet to hear one gentleman, even a

3:07:24lawyer, tell me that there's a general

3:07:25state statute that says we are mandated

3:07:29to have a data center.

3:07:32If there is such a statute in North

3:07:35Carolina, please present it. I'll read

3:07:38it. Otherwise, it's not mandated by

3:07:41state law. It may be suggested heavily

3:07:44for the money reason, but I want to be

3:07:48very cautious.

3:07:51Humans matter

3:07:53and that should be supreme over any data

3:07:56center. If anybody's going to go without

3:07:58water, it's not going to be the humans.

3:08:00Do you understand what I'm saying? My

3:08:02children are not going to look at me

3:08:04crying because they're dehydrated and

3:08:07we've got to keep a data center going.

3:08:10I don't want to bury your mother.

3:08:13I don't want to choose

3:08:15somebody [snorts] over somebody else

3:08:17because of their age

3:08:19because we don't have enough water.

3:08:23We have got to use the brains God has

3:08:25given us.

3:08:29And there is another question I have a

3:08:31long arm transaction.

3:08:34Now I understand Mr. Cory, by the way,

3:08:36he's good-look. Want you to know

3:08:40that man is so courageous.

3:08:43I asked him because I know he's got

3:08:46property down here off of 64.

3:08:49He was very kind and as long as I know,

3:08:52he has told me the truth. I said, "Have

3:08:53you been approached by data center?"

3:08:55"Yes, he has."

3:09:00"Would you like to tell me the name?"

3:09:02"No, I won't.

3:09:05But we've heard our planning tonight

3:09:10say that Mr. Corey has sent him

3:09:12documents.

3:09:15Now I think there's a conflict of

3:09:16interest, don't you? I would like to see

3:09:18every email, every document that he has

3:09:20provided you.

3:09:21>> The documents Mr. Cer sent me available

3:09:24online. It's a Duke Power application.

3:09:26>> Okay. But he's he's giving you

3:09:28information, right? And he's also been

3:09:31approached by a data center for the

3:09:34property that he has may or may not have

3:09:36even entered into a contract right now.

3:09:38And he has a right to make a million

3:09:40dollars. I don't even regret saying

3:09:42that. Maybe 10 billion. [clears throat]

3:09:45>> But if you're going to come up here, we

3:09:47want to all be on the same page, right?

3:09:49>> Absolutely.

3:09:50>> We all want to be truthful with each

3:09:51other. That's not a long arm

3:09:54transaction. That's working with

3:09:56planning and zoning because I have

3:09:57property and I've been approached Now,

3:10:00if I was an attorney and I'm not, I love

3:10:03depositions.

3:10:05I'd eat you alive over that. It's got to

3:10:08be a long armed transaction. You cannot

3:10:10be working and married to somebody to

3:10:12get it through. Please put a hold on it

3:10:16for our children, for the elderly, cuz

3:10:19the elderly is who they're going to say

3:10:20is dispensable.

3:10:24Nobody has yet to even say there is a

3:10:26general state statute that demands that

3:10:28we put one of these in our county. I'm

3:10:31waiting. Is there?

3:10:34There you go. I appreciate the intellect

3:10:37that's sitting on this board.

3:10:40But when I look at my grandchildren,

3:10:45I want them to know I didn't back down.

3:10:49I want them to know I asked the hard

3:10:51questions.

3:10:52Underneath deposition, gentlemen,

3:10:55underneath the general state statute, I

3:10:58have yet to hear one person say there is

3:11:00a law that says we need it in Davidson

3:11:02County.

3:11:04It's all about greed and it is the beast

3:11:06system. It may be nice to start with,

3:11:09but it's the beast system. You need to

3:11:11read your Bible.

3:11:13I love Davidson County.

3:11:17I'm so appalled cuz this affects

3:11:20property values.

3:11:23Yates said he didn't want in his

3:11:25backyard.

3:11:27We don't want in ours. That's within the

3:11:30contiguous

3:11:31miles that Davidson County is. We don't

3:11:33want it in our county. Let it go

3:11:36somewhere else. Let us be a community

3:11:38that love each other that serves God.

3:11:42that if we're going to have to fight

3:11:43this out at the very end with what's

3:11:46coming, let us fight together in unity.

3:11:51[snorts]

3:11:52I'm a proud American.

3:11:56My father served this nation and I

3:11:58served it cuz I wore the dog tugs and I

3:12:00was taken everywhere out of the country.

3:12:02Never had a home. [snorts] Edison County

3:12:05is my home

3:12:08and I would proudly stand up and fight

3:12:12for every child, black or white, every

3:12:15neighbor, old or young,

3:12:19and I hope you do, too. Thank you for

3:12:22allowing me to speak.

3:12:27>> Thank you, Miss Ash.

3:12:33For the record, Matt Meiselle, address

3:12:35is 391 Bryson Boulevard, Lexington,

3:12:3927295.

3:12:41I'm usually accustomed to to being up

3:12:43there or not over here, but I'm glad

3:12:45I've been able to attend this. I'll be

3:12:47very brief and probably not near as

3:12:50passionate or interesting as as Miss

3:12:52Miss Hash. Um, one, Lee, I'd like to

3:12:55just call out and say how grateful we

3:12:58are for your um public service. um

3:13:01taking your wife on a date up to Lenor

3:13:03to do the uh um sightseeing of data

3:13:07centers. So um if you need better tips,

3:13:10I can I can give you some for for good

3:13:12dates.

3:13:12>> Okay. [laughter]

3:13:14>> No, but I I do want to call that out

3:13:15because again, not not every public

3:13:18official would would do that. And that's

3:13:20>> this this is a joke, but I didn't know

3:13:22whether to put in for a reimbursement on

3:13:23that

3:13:24>> number three wash tub. [laughter]

3:13:27>> I will I will be more than happy to to

3:13:29approve it. Um,

3:13:31>> I'll second that.

3:13:32>> Yes. Uh, Mr. Chairman, honorable

3:13:34members, one, I I do appreciate the the

3:13:36amount of of time and dialogue you have

3:13:39have put into tonight. Um, I think I I

3:13:42may bear some responsibility and and why

3:13:44it's gone so long as I brought up

3:13:46initially the moratorium for a data

3:13:48center and that's probably why you're

3:13:50now discussing the uh the text

3:13:52amendment. I I won't get into specifics

3:13:55and I I will also say and I want to

3:13:57preface this very clearly. I'm not

3:13:59speaking for the board of commissioners

3:14:01here. I'm just speaking as myself. This

3:14:04is my opinion as a citizen in Davidson

3:14:06County. Um again, I think the

3:14:09conversations have gone very well. I

3:14:10know that in come October, I think 26 is

3:14:15our uh final October meeting. will have

3:14:18this text amendment as well as the

3:14:21moratorum to vote on. And my hope would

3:14:25be that given the amount of ambiguity

3:14:30with data centers and we've discussed

3:14:32some of it tonight. There's a full

3:14:33spectrum of them and there's a host of

3:14:36articles some positive some negative um

3:14:40about data centers and a lot of times it

3:14:41depends on the type, depends on the

3:14:44energy usage, depends on the topography,

3:14:46depends on the town. Um, but given that

3:14:48ambiguity, uh, I'd rather start more

3:14:51strict in our regulations and in our

3:14:55text amendment than more general. And as

3:14:58a former school teacher, uh, I always

3:15:01told new school teachers who I would

3:15:03help mentor, it's always easier to start

3:15:07more strict and more firm and then let

3:15:10up over the year than to start very easy

3:15:14and then try to impose

3:15:16further restrictions. And so, as I said,

3:15:20I'm not going to get into specifics. I

3:15:22appreciate everything you do. appreciate

3:15:24your time and the diligence and the due

3:15:26diligence you put into all this. Um, and

3:15:28I thank you for letting me speak.

3:15:32>> If if I may just respond, uh,

3:15:35Commissioner Miselle, I I would hope

3:15:38that if uh I don't know how you'll take

3:15:41up the moratorum and the uh text

3:15:44amendment, but I would welcome an

3:15:46opportunity to work on this amendment a

3:15:48little more. So I would assume that if a

3:15:51moratorum is put in place then we'll be

3:15:53given that opportunity.

3:15:55>> That would be my my hope as well which

3:15:57is that the work that is um underway and

3:16:01will continue over the next couple weeks

3:16:03could be built upon if that moratorum

3:16:06was to pass. Um so I would see it as a

3:16:08continuation if that four-month

3:16:10mortorium passed.

3:16:12>> All right. Thank you.

3:16:17>> All right.

3:16:20>> [clears throat]

3:16:22>> So, I'm Tabis Curry. I live at 2756 Old

3:16:25Limmerwood Road. I'm a little under the

3:16:27weather tonight. Sorry. [snorts] Uh,

3:16:29first I want to say thank you to Mr.

3:16:31[clears throat] Crook and the planning

3:16:32team and the board. Uh, the draft is a

3:16:36very good foundation in my opinion and

3:16:39appreciate the work behind it. So, one

3:16:42suggestion, uh, it was touched on a

3:16:44little bit tonight, um, in section J,

3:16:47item number one, regarding the water.

3:16:50Uh, staff has told me that the goal was

3:16:53to prohibit evaporative cooling, the

3:16:56kind that loses water into the air,

3:16:59but the [clears throat] text prohibits

3:17:00open loop and or air cooled systems.

3:17:04But air cooled systems use almost no no

3:17:06water so that wording could block the

3:17:10very option the section favors. So in my

3:17:13opinion I would suggest replacing air

3:17:15cooled with evaporative cooling so that

3:17:17the text says what is intended and

3:17:19avoids any possible confusion down the

3:17:21road. That's all I had.

3:17:23>> Thank you sir. Appreciate that that

3:17:25Thank you. Evaporating cool. Evapor.

3:17:27>> Thank you Mr. Curry.

3:17:29>> I just have one last quick thing to say.

3:17:33All the reading that I've been doing

3:17:34about data centers is number one,

3:17:36they're untrustworthy. They say they're

3:17:39going to put 30 compressors, 30, you

3:17:41know, generators. They want we they find

3:17:44out a couple of months later when they

3:17:46fly a drone over the property that they

3:17:48have 60 of them working. So there goes

3:17:51the air quality issue right there. You

3:17:53know, they're they're zoned and they're

3:17:54permitted to burn and and use up all

3:17:56that energy and the pollution that it's

3:17:59going to cause. and then they go to find

3:18:01out that they're they're not following

3:18:03the regulations. So I to continue what

3:18:05Matt was saying, I think you should

3:18:07definitely be strict on these companies

3:18:09because they could do it right. They

3:18:10could do it the proper way. They have

3:18:12the money to do it, but they just figure

3:18:15nobody's paying attention. Everybody's

3:18:17just going to fall in line and and you

3:18:19know, and the other problem I have is we

3:18:22seem to not have as much power on our

3:18:25own destiny as we should. A lot of the

3:18:28things that you guys want to do like the

3:18:30fines and stuff, Raleigh doesn't want

3:18:33you to do it, you know, or or the state

3:18:35doesn't allow it. That has to change.

3:18:37You guys have to have the power here,

3:18:39not up not with the state because the

3:18:41DEEQ, those people are bought and paid

3:18:44for the the EPA is is is toothless right

3:18:48now. The EPA the air quality levels here

3:18:51and and once the pollution reaches that

3:18:53level, what does the EPA do? They just

3:18:55changed the regulation now because

3:18:57there's no teeth to it. They just say,

3:18:58"Oh, yeah, now you can pollute this much

3:19:00more." So, it never ends. You know,

3:19:02there's no strict guidelines. That's why

3:19:04it's up to you guys and to our county

3:19:06commissioners to set these these

3:19:09standards and maintain them and keep

3:19:11everything inhouse as opposed to giving

3:19:14it all away to these other entities that

3:19:16could care less about what happens in

3:19:18Davidson County. So, that's my only

3:19:20concern is these companies, they're

3:19:22untrustworthy. These politicians are

3:19:24untrustworthy. We need people with clear

3:19:27heads, clear thinking about the

3:19:29community like you guys who care about

3:19:31this community to protect us because

3:19:33nobody else will these days. Thank you.

3:19:35>> Thank you. All right. Thank you.

3:19:41>> The tax amendment that says no automatic

3:19:43campus expansion like you showed us the

3:19:46Google data center and they were adding

3:19:49buildings and buildings and buildings.

3:19:51The existing permitting system wouldn't

3:19:52allow that, but that's correct.

3:19:55>> No problem.

3:19:56>> Okay.

3:19:59>> Modification they need they make needs

3:20:02to inspire a new review.

3:20:06>> Correct.

3:20:06>> Yeah, that's right. Yes.

3:20:08>> And so that I thought was Don't you have

3:20:10similar wording?

3:20:11>> That's actually state law. That's state

3:20:12law.

3:20:13>> Okay.

3:20:13>> Yeah. Yeah.

3:20:16>> Mr. Green. Chairman Green, can I address

3:20:18a couple things real quick just as a

3:20:20response to a couple of questions. Um,

3:20:23and I'm trying to let you guys off the

3:20:24hook. I'm just so you understand the

3:20:25deal. Um, you guys were charged with

3:20:29providing comment on September 14th.

3:20:32State law gives you 30 days to make that

3:20:34comment. After 30 days, the

3:20:36commissioners do not need to even

3:20:37receive your comment to move forward.

3:20:40So it essentially pro prohibits like a

3:20:44um like a like um committee veto like in

3:20:47Congress where is it you we talk about

3:20:49bills go to to committee to die right

3:20:51that it prohibits the planning board

3:20:53from any planning board not just this

3:20:55one from keeping something or not giving

3:20:57it to commissioners that law prohibits

3:20:59that so after next time we're here the

3:21:0420th if you don't reach a resolution on

3:21:07this issue the commissioner ers do not

3:21:09need your recommendation to vote on on

3:21:11the 26th. Just just so we're clear.

3:21:12>> Okay.

3:21:13>> So that that that answers that. So yeah,

3:21:16by all means it's 9:33.

3:21:19Let's take the 20th or whatever you guys

3:21:20want to do. You can do that. After that

3:21:22though, if they want to vote on the 26th

3:21:24and make their own recommendations, they

3:21:25can do that. Okay.

3:21:28>> Before can I just

3:21:30>> Sure.

3:21:30>> I'm I'm

3:21:32Are you Are you telling me that just in

3:21:34reference to what I said to him about

3:21:36having more time to work on it? I'm just

3:21:38saying just generally speaking,

3:21:39generally speaking, once you all are

3:21:40charged with I we want you to provide

3:21:43comment, not just this issue, any zoning

3:21:45issue could be [clears throat] we heard

3:21:46earlier on the on county road.

3:21:48>> It's state law.

3:21:48>> It's state law

3:21:49>> for any any action, any reasonzoning.

3:21:51>> That's 160D 604 number uh paragraph B.

3:21:55>> You have you have 30 days.

3:21:57>> As a matter of courtesy, our board has

3:22:00always honored a continuence at this

3:22:02level by continuing their public hearing

3:22:05to a date certain. um they have the

3:22:08right to do that but as a matter of

3:22:09courtesy they've they've never invoked

3:22:11that because they value the planning

3:22:14board's input.

3:22:16Okay. So if if they enact a moratorum

3:22:21and then

3:22:23they they can take our recommendations

3:22:26on the amendment.

3:22:28Can they then turn around and say we'd

3:22:31like for you to go back to work on it?

3:22:35Let's I I want to I want to avoid

3:22:36getting into what the commissioners can

3:22:38and can't do because I'm not know I'm

3:22:39not their attorney, right? And I'd like

3:22:42to focus on this document tonight. If

3:22:45the board feels like this document

3:22:47adequately addresses the concerns that

3:22:50we have, we could potentially with the

3:22:53proposed changes, then we could

3:22:55potentially recommend approval tonight.

3:22:58If you see something specific that we

3:23:00need to work on, we could potentially

3:23:02work on it. Bring it back on the 20th

3:23:05and and address those concerns.

3:23:08>> Well, I've heard some things tonight

3:23:10that I'd like [clears throat] to give a

3:23:12little more consideration to, but that's

3:23:14just me. I mean, there's four other guys

3:23:16here that going to vote maybe another

3:23:17way. So, I'm just just letting you know

3:23:20where I'm at.

3:23:20>> I guess what I'm saying is there was an

3:23:22express call for you guys to slam, which

3:23:23is understandable. That's perfectly

3:23:24understandable question. What I'm saying

3:23:26to you all is that at after the 20th, if

3:23:28you've not written a decision, the

3:23:30commissioners do not need your decision.

3:23:31That's that's what I'm saying. I

3:23:32understand that.

3:23:33>> I'm talking to you guys, not them. And

3:23:34what they will or won't do, I'm telling

3:23:36talking to you.

3:23:36>> Right.

3:23:37>> Um the the other thing I'm glad Miss

3:23:40Hash brought this question up. Let's

3:23:42resolve this issue of of a prohibitive

3:23:45ordinance once and for all is that we've

3:23:47kind of danced around it and let's talk

3:23:48about it really quickly. So

3:23:52it in fact our ordinance we and we

3:23:54talked about this a few a few months ago

3:23:55with with when we were talking about

3:23:57interpreting the the recreational center

3:23:58down south.

3:24:00Our ordinance still has the line that if

3:24:03it's not expressly in the table of uses

3:24:05is it's prohibited right and most zoning

3:24:09ordinances up through the early 2000s

3:24:11had that language in there. That was

3:24:13okay. early 2000s there was a series of

3:24:16challenges on constitutional grounds and

3:24:19courts court appeals state supreme court

3:24:21held that that was not proper that you

3:24:24could not say if we haven't listed it

3:24:26it's prohibited even actually that that

3:24:29language is still in our ordinance it is

3:24:30dead we cannot use it

3:24:32>> it's still there but it's dead we can't

3:24:33use it so that answers the question of

3:24:36what happens if I don't list it can I

3:24:39prohibit it no you cannot what that does

3:24:42not answer the question cannot expressly

3:24:45prohibit it. Right? So that's

3:24:48prohibition by implication versus

3:24:51prohibition by expression. We call a

3:24:54data center a data center or a event

3:24:56center or a recreation center or

3:24:59whatever the thing the the the thing

3:25:00that we don't like today is right. We

3:25:03name it and we say it can't go anywhere.

3:25:07Right? Can that happen? There is no

3:25:10state law that prohibits that from

3:25:11happening.

3:25:13Okay, you asked a great question.

3:25:16>> Clear that up for me because I'm over

3:25:17here and drove there and I'm

3:25:19>> so the the the the one thing is

3:25:21absolutely not allowed and this is in

3:25:24case all the way up to the state supreme

3:25:25court and it's been upheld multiple

3:25:27times is that it used to be and it's

3:25:29still in our ordinance. We could say if

3:25:31we have not listed it in our in our our

3:25:33uses, right, the table that Lee put up

3:25:35on if we've not listed it, it's

3:25:36prohibited.

3:25:37>> So basically anything unnamed,

3:25:40>> right?

3:25:40>> Can't do that. That's illegal,

3:25:42>> right?

3:25:42>> So, and that's where we get into which

3:25:44we we've seen, you guys have seen it,

3:25:45board of judgment seen it, the

3:25:47commissioners have seen it. When we get

3:25:48a use that says it's not named, where

3:25:50does it go? Lee has to figure out where

3:25:53it goes

3:25:54>> because we have not expressly prohibited

3:25:56it. Therefore, we must provide a place.

3:25:58>> So, can we expressly prohibit it?

3:26:00>> Hang on just a second. Yeah. So, that

3:26:02has all been decided on the basis of

3:26:05just like any other government action, a

3:26:07zoning action must be constitutional.

3:26:09Right. So there are three levels of

3:26:12scrutiny with any constitutional action.

3:26:13There's rational basis or low-level

3:26:15scrutiny. There's intermediate basis and

3:26:18then there's strict scrutiny. Strict

3:26:19scrutiny we're talking of things like

3:26:21free speech, freedom of religion, free

3:26:23exercise, all all the the big things,

3:26:25right? The things we all really worry

3:26:27about intermediate, some other stuff,

3:26:29but rational basis basically does it is

3:26:33it does it do anything that's bad,

3:26:36right? That's most government

3:26:38regulations like zoning ordinances and

3:26:40those are pursu presumed valid. If you

3:26:43read the case law and you've probably

3:26:44heard Lee say this or Josh say this or

3:26:46or a zoning ordinance is presumed valid

3:26:50if the commissioners pass it. And that's

3:26:51not just in Davidson County. This is

3:26:52throughout North Carolina and throughout

3:26:54the country. If the governing board

3:26:56passes it, the courts are going to

3:26:58assume that it's good. It's not a

3:27:01problem. Right.

3:27:03However,

3:27:05it has to be rationally related. It has

3:27:07to be connected to what we're trying to

3:27:09pro to to to protect and that government

3:27:12can actually do those things. So, like

3:27:14when I said, I don't know when we start

3:27:16talking about getting into regulating or

3:27:18dealing with utilities, what role does a

3:27:21city or county government have in North

3:27:22Carolina and telling a utility what they

3:27:24can or can't do? Right? There there

3:27:26would be a constitutional argument that

3:27:28we do not have the authority to do that.

3:27:31Right? that the state can the federal

3:27:33government can we can or cannot. So the

3:27:36the cities that have decided to regulate

3:27:38utilities at some point when we can't

3:27:40site data centers or site again not just

3:27:42data centers event centers I mean any

3:27:45anything that we don't want right at

3:27:48some point someone's going to say I'm

3:27:50tired of this they're going to challenge

3:27:51it and probably a city is going to lose

3:27:54that would be my prediction maybe not

3:27:55we'll see right

3:27:57but going to the express prohibition

3:28:00when you expressly prohibit a otherwise

3:28:04lawful use and that's what's key, right?

3:28:06Because there are lots and lots of cases

3:28:08that we all read in law school, Mr.

3:28:09Walker probably remembers those about

3:28:11prohibiting adult establishments. Well,

3:28:12in many states, those are illegal,

3:28:14right? So, that's that's a little

3:28:16different. It's illegal. Things like um

3:28:18unregulated gambling or um up until

3:28:22here, you know, in dry counties, things

3:28:24like um licensed liquor establishments,

3:28:26those are illegal. We can regulate those

3:28:28and we can regulate them out of

3:28:29existence because they shouldn't exist

3:28:31to begin with. But when it's a lawful

3:28:33use, and data centers are lawful, right,

3:28:36they're warehouses with big towers,

3:28:39right?

3:28:41The constitution says that we have to be

3:28:43careful and that any regulation of that

3:28:46use has to be rationally related to what

3:28:50government's trying to do. Now, there

3:28:52are lots of legitimate concerns like

3:28:54medicine suck a lot of water, take a lot

3:28:56of power, they're noxious, right? So

3:28:58those are all great points, but the

3:29:00question is can and this is a big

3:29:02question that's get gets asked in court.

3:29:04Can government regulate a use without

3:29:07eliminating the use? And for the most

3:29:09part, the answer probably is in most

3:29:11cases the answer is yes. There is a way

3:29:13to regulate it without eliminating. And

3:29:16so what happened? There is one case in

3:29:18North Carolina that deals with express

3:29:20prohibition. There's one case that came

3:29:22came out of Hillsboro. Ironically,

3:29:24Hillsboro has lots of zoning cases. So,

3:29:26I don't know what that's about, but they

3:29:27do. [laughter]

3:29:29Not I think it's 2008 or 2009. At that

3:29:31point, you I kind of remember this.

3:29:33Everyone didn't want no one wanted an

3:29:34asphalt plant. I want to be careful

3:29:36saying that word, asphalt plants. No one

3:29:38wanted one. In fact, I think someone's

3:29:40suing about an asphalt plant somewhere

3:29:42like in Wils County or something right

3:29:43now. Hillsburg regulated them out of

3:29:46existence. They named them asphalt

3:29:48plants. We don't want them. Regulated

3:29:50out of existence. An asphalt plant suit.

3:29:54Court of Appeals came down really hard

3:29:58against Hillsburg. And what they looked

3:30:00at is they looked at all the other

3:30:02states and all the other federal courts

3:30:04in the area that have looked at similar

3:30:08express prohibitions and resolve them

3:30:10under things like due process, things

3:30:13like rational basis scrutiny, the 14th

3:30:15amendment, all those those big big C

3:30:17constitutional issues that have to be

3:30:20addressed. And in most cases, those

3:30:22states or federal courts have said that

3:30:24when we regulate something or when we

3:30:27basically regulate out of existence and

3:30:29it's otherwise lawful use, it flips that

3:30:32presumption of validity against the

3:30:34government. So instead of being presumed

3:30:36valid, it's now presumed invalid.

3:30:39Basically, the government gets higher.

3:30:41So we talked about this multiple levels

3:30:42of scrutiny. Then we're getting multiple

3:30:44levels of scrutiny. And when you get the

3:30:46higher the scrutiny, the more likely the

3:30:48government's going to lose.

3:30:49>> Yeah. Right. And that actually makes

3:30:51good sense.

3:30:52>> You're basically making all the evidence

3:30:54yourself by all the regulations to prove

3:30:56that it needed to be there.

3:30:57>> Yeah. Exactly. And so it becomes it it

3:31:00it goes from an issue of when we pass

3:31:02this on and when we for example if if

3:31:04they pass this ordinance, there's some

3:31:06version of this ordinance at some point

3:31:07in the future, we will walk into court

3:31:09knowing we will almost certainly win.

3:31:12>> Almost certainly in most cases. It would

3:31:14flip that to we will almost certainly

3:31:16lose

3:31:17>> in most cases because not only will we

3:31:19have to explain why we're regulated, we

3:31:22would have to explain why that express

3:31:24prohibition is necessary and the only

3:31:26way to achieve the result.

3:31:28>> Yeah.

3:31:28>> Right. Or there there's basically very

3:31:30limited means of otherwise achieving the

3:31:32result. That's a very very very tall

3:31:36task. Now

3:31:37>> I said there's one case, right?

3:31:39>> Yeah.

3:31:39>> So what happened? That case then went to

3:31:41the state supreme court and the state

3:31:43supreme court vacated that and basically

3:31:47sidestepped the issue of the express

3:31:50prohibition. So technically speaking

3:31:53there is no case law in North Carolina

3:31:55that says you can or can't do it. But

3:31:58there is one case that says you really

3:32:00can't do it. So it really and that also

3:32:03gets into there are lots of cases we

3:32:05talk about we can't implicitly prohibit

3:32:08things. in lots of cases that zoning

3:32:10laws are a deriggation against the free

3:32:13use of property. And if you think about

3:32:14it constitutionally, if I have property,

3:32:16I should be more or less free to use it.

3:32:17Y

3:32:17>> if you have property, you have more or

3:32:19less free to use it. Same thing with

3:32:21large multinational corporations. If

3:32:22they own property, they should be more

3:32:24or less free to use it.

3:32:25>> Y

3:32:26>> and so that that is not to answer your

3:32:29question. Could we technically pass an

3:32:31express probation? Yes, we could.

3:32:34>> Would we almost certainly lose?

3:32:35>> Yes, we would.

3:32:36>> Yes, we would. Yeah. [laughter] That's

3:32:38the answer.

3:32:43>> So to to pass it, we would to pass that

3:32:46higher level of scrutiny

3:32:48where again the burden is now flipped

3:32:50from almost certainly going to win to

3:32:51we're almost certainly going to lose. We

3:32:53would have to show that the impact and

3:32:56again here's the key. The impact on

3:32:58Davidson County is so severe that no

3:33:01other outcome could be achieved.

3:33:03>> Now water.

3:33:04>> Well, but hang on here. the the key

3:33:06thing and that that would be the

3:33:07argument. We have to find something

3:33:09unique about Davidson County because the

3:33:11industry would then look at all the

3:33:13other counties and cities around us and

3:33:14say they don't need that.

3:33:16>> Right. So could it be done? It it could.

3:33:20It's possible. There is nothing to

3:33:22expressly expressly prohibit ironically.

3:33:25No, there is nothing to expressly

3:33:26prohibit that.

3:33:28>> But the best advice we have and this is

3:33:30the opinion of the school government.

3:33:31You've heard Lee talk about that. In

3:33:32fact, we had the the Zoom call two weeks

3:33:34ago. They they reiterated this when um

3:33:36Adam and I went to the attorneys

3:33:38conference back in July. We talked about

3:33:39data centers there. They talked the same

3:33:41advice is that basically you're you're

3:33:44really rowing up up some tough water to

3:33:47try to make that

3:33:48>> amazing that an industry can control

3:33:51government that way.

3:33:52>> Well, it's not so much industry. I mean

3:33:54it's because it's not we're not just

3:33:55talking about data centers. I mean we're

3:33:57talking about I mean any use any I mean

3:34:00if it's you know Andrew's camping world,

3:34:02right? So it's not it's not just about

3:34:04data centers. It's about the notion of

3:34:06>> a great explanation that very much.

3:34:09>> But what other industry could

3:34:11potentially

3:34:12be where the people doesn't have water

3:34:15to drink?

3:34:16>> Sure.

3:34:16>> And you've told them you will shut down

3:34:21temporarily in order to save life,

3:34:24liberty in the pursuit of happiness with

3:34:26this county and these people. What other

3:34:29industry is there?

3:34:31Because when we have no water, no other

3:34:33businesses can run. If we have no water,

3:34:36they're going to try to decide who's

3:34:37older and who's going to be dispensable.

3:34:39They're going to look at you. They're

3:34:40going to look at me.

3:34:42And I'm not willing to give up anybody

3:34:45here for for a data center. I want you

3:34:49to live your life out with liberty and

3:34:51freedom.

3:34:53I want you and your family. I'm not even

3:34:56mad at you, but there has to be

3:34:58something in there that says if in fact

3:35:01we reach a threshold of water usage and

3:35:04they've overused it, that needs to be

3:35:06shut down because our children and our

3:35:09elderly must be able to live. We cannot

3:35:12let people die because of a data center.

3:35:16That's where the rubber hits for me.

3:35:18Which one of you do want to stand there

3:35:20and say you don't get to live? You don't

3:35:22get to live. You tell me. Democrat or

3:35:24Republic, it doesn't matter to me. Well,

3:35:27you can turn around and say, "Well, you

3:35:28know, there's a there's a lawsuit." You

3:35:30know what? Lawyers are dime a dozen.

3:35:34Life, liberty, and the pursuit of

3:35:36happiness. I don't want to choose which

3:35:39one of these people are going to die

3:35:41because we have no water. I want them to

3:35:44live their life. So, there has to be

3:35:46something in there that says, "We won't

3:35:48sacrifice one soul.

3:35:51We won't sacrifice one soul." black or

3:35:54white, rich or poor, from the White

3:35:55House to the doghouse, the sinner or the

3:35:58saved. We won't sacrifice that soul.

3:36:02That's where I'm from. And I'm not even

3:36:04angry with you.

3:36:06>> Well, can I let me just

3:36:10>> let me just respond to that if I may.

3:36:12Um, Miss Hash, um, you know, I think

3:36:15there's a lot of agreement with you. um

3:36:18you know to your statement earlier that

3:36:20humans are more important than data

3:36:22centers.

3:36:24[clears throat] I I know most of these

3:36:25people in this room and I don't think a

3:36:27single one of them would would disagree

3:36:29with you. The [clears throat] what I

3:36:32what I just want to say is

3:36:35I think that what you would like to

3:36:37achieve and we would all like to achieve

3:36:41is to ensure that we have water and

3:36:44we're the priority for that water. Um, I

3:36:48I don't think the planning board is

3:36:51going to be the entity that's going to

3:36:52be able to ensure that. I think that

3:36:56your very impassion please would would

3:36:58would do much better before

3:37:01um maybe somebody in Raleigh. Uh but um

3:37:05but uh I think that's where it's going

3:37:08to take someone that has um the

3:37:12necessary authority to go to Davidson

3:37:14Water or the city of Lexington and say

3:37:18you're going to have to go valve off

3:37:20that data center. You know, we we can't

3:37:23we just can't do it. I

3:37:26am I am I wrong? Well, it should be in

3:37:28if you're going to have that statement

3:37:29that you're going to turn around and try

3:37:30to vote on that text, something in there

3:37:33should be a guarantee that human life

3:37:36has to be recognized and we

3:37:38[clears throat] will ask you to shut

3:37:40down temporarily.

3:37:41>> We could ask that this common

3:37:43>> they're a private entity.

3:37:46Davidson Water is basically like any

3:37:50other company. That's right.

3:37:51>> Um and we can't regulate them at that

3:37:54level. We we could they're member

3:37:56regulated and board regulated.

3:37:58>> Yeah. Yeah. I know. I get my letter of

3:38:01do I want to come to a meeting all

3:38:03>> That's right.

3:38:04>> They have to satisfy their their

3:38:06membership.

3:38:06>> Yeah.

3:38:07>> Yeah. I mean it's certainly true that I

3:38:09mean you see policy statements in in

3:38:11like you know Raleigh you know bill. I

3:38:14mean certainly true that I mean you

3:38:15could put a policy statement in there

3:38:16that that's what almost like a

3:38:17resolution that

3:38:19>> not you guys the I mean the comm you

3:38:21know what I mean. I mean that that could

3:38:22be or the city election etc. could I

3:38:24mean they could definitely pass that.

3:38:26Um,

3:38:27>> are commissioners to pass a resolution

3:38:29to restrict to

3:38:31>> I guess what I'm saying is I mean you

3:38:33could you could ask um and really I

3:38:35think any governing board could could

3:38:37make a you know sometimes you hear make

3:38:39this broad policy we prefer you know we

3:38:41want we want this outcome

3:38:43>> right

3:38:43>> it's not so much that it's a it's not a

3:38:45it's not a dictate what they're saying

3:38:47is that the the view of the board is we

3:38:49we want

3:38:50>> we want this other entity whatever it is

3:38:52we'd like you to do this I mean that

3:38:54that kind of I mean I think you

3:38:55certainly

3:38:56could say we we prefer that

3:38:59>> you write some type of thing,

3:39:01>> you know, agreement where water is, you

3:39:03know, there's water restriction. I mean,

3:39:04I think I think that could be I think I

3:39:07think again I'm not the attorney, so I'm

3:39:10just spitballing here, right? I'm I'm

3:39:12I'm guessing, right?

3:39:13>> So, don't don't get me. I'm trying.

3:39:16We're having this [clears throat]

3:39:17dialogue.

3:39:18>> I I truly am. I'm passionate when it

3:39:20comes to life.

3:39:21>> I am so passionate. I don't want any one

3:39:24of you to be chosen because of your age.

3:39:27You're dispensable. And that's where

3:39:29we're coming down to. Believe it or not,

3:39:32we are all going to have to make a

3:39:34decision.

3:39:35And I love every one of y'all. I pray

3:39:37you into heaven. I sing at your

3:39:40deathbed. But we are going to have to

3:39:42understand money is not all that in a

3:39:44bag of tears. We're all going to stand

3:39:46down before a holy God. What did we do?

3:39:50Did we save as many souls as we could or

3:39:53did we dispense some

3:39:55>> for the data center?

3:39:58>> Really? We don't own the data.

3:40:03>> We'd have to get a lawyer.

3:40:05>> Yeah.

3:40:07I think again, Miss Hash, I think

3:40:09there's a lot of agreement.

3:40:10[clears throat] Um,

3:40:12I and and not I'm not I don't want to be

3:40:15argumentative, but I have enough faith

3:40:17in humanity that humans will figure out

3:40:21the right thing to do when circumstances

3:40:24dictate that. And I know that's below

3:40:27the the spiritual implications that

3:40:30you're talking about, but um

3:40:36we that's something we can't do a whole

3:40:38lot about right here. But uh but I I

3:40:40appreciate I think we understand what

3:40:42you're saying and uh we'll certainly

3:40:44take that under consideration as to what

3:40:46we can do. Um it is getting late.

3:40:51>> Well, and you're not required to stay.

3:40:53So if you want to get to your bedtime,

3:40:54[laughter]

3:40:58gentlemen, I'm stay

3:41:00off a little bit, but I'm up and I'm

3:41:02still here. Well, we've we wanted to

3:41:04give uh folks an opportunity, and I

3:41:07think you'll agree, we've done so

3:41:08without any restrictions. Uh had the

3:41:11room been full tonight, we would have

3:41:12had to

3:41:14probably put some restrictions and have

3:41:16a bell up here and ring it when somebody

3:41:18speaks too long. Uh so, I'm glad you're

3:41:21able to share with us. Um I've already

3:41:24said that there's things that I've heard

3:41:26that I'd like to give some more

3:41:27consideration to. We'll probably take a

3:41:30vote on what we're going to do here in

3:41:32just a few minutes if if

3:41:34>> [clears throat]

3:41:34>> uh if staff doesn't have anything else

3:41:36that you you want uh us to do right now.

3:41:39>> What what I would ask is if the board

3:41:41does decide to continue, give us

3:41:45specific direction on what we need to

3:41:47work on.

3:41:48>> Okay.

3:41:50>> I'll specifically state I want to think

3:41:52about what the gentleman said of

3:41:55vegetation on top of the buffer.

3:41:57Uh it's a good point. It can be flat. It

3:42:00may can be uh certain vegetation that

3:42:02can withstand high winds. May help, may

3:42:05not. I'd like to find out about that.

3:42:07>> It will also protect it from eroding

3:42:09away. You know, once you build on it,

3:42:11the roots hold everything together.

3:42:12There's nothing

3:42:14away eventually.

3:42:15>> Well, I mean that the original text has

3:42:19that.

3:42:20>> Okay. Well,

3:42:21>> we we struck it. We struck it, but the

3:42:24original text has that

3:42:25>> has the trees in there. Mhm. So, so I'm

3:42:28okay with the trees.

3:42:29>> So, I can I can add that back in.

3:42:32>> Especially when adding a paper, why not?

3:42:35>> Sure.

3:42:36>> So, um before the language, I'm sorry,

3:42:39Mr. Chairman. Um 2:1 horizontal vertical

3:42:43slope and is covered with evergreen

3:42:45landscaping that will reach a minimum of

3:42:4720 ft in height at maturity.

3:42:50That's the way it was originally

3:42:52designed um as designed by a landscape

3:42:55professional.

3:42:57Yeah, I think that's essential because

3:42:58they got to know what kind of plants can

3:43:00set on top of that. That'll work. That's

3:43:02why I put that in there because I've had

3:43:04to amend so many landscaping plans

3:43:07because what was proposed on a 2D map in

3:43:10this bill in this room doesn't work in

3:43:12the real world,

3:43:13>> right?

3:43:13>> And and the landscape professional would

3:43:16come in with a plan that performs the

3:43:18same and I would just approve that,

3:43:20right? Um, so that the landscape

3:43:23professional would have to be a big part

3:43:25of this cuz they're going to know

3:43:27what'll work on the burm and what won't

3:43:29work on the burm.

3:43:31So

3:43:34again, I think that we need to as a

3:43:36board, we need to decide if we're going

3:43:38to um accept and just run with what

3:43:41we've done tonight and say that's it,

3:43:43run with it, or do we want to delay a

3:43:46vote on that and um take care of that on

3:43:49on our next meeting.

3:43:51>> That's up to y'all. So, I'm putting that

3:43:53before you men as a uh question and for

3:43:55us to resolve and then we'll figure out

3:43:57where to go from there if if anywhere.

3:44:01I think we've made I think we did well

3:44:03to get through it and and I'm grateful

3:44:06for the additional insights that we've

3:44:09heard from the audience. Um

3:44:13but yeah, I'm you know that stuff you

3:44:16were talking about, Andrew, that's very

3:44:17interesting. I I it's taking me back to

3:44:19my college days. And I was thinking,

3:44:21yeah, at 10:00 at night on a college

3:44:23when I was in college, man, my brain was

3:44:25still pumping pretty good. But

3:44:28>> I didn't start studying for law school

3:44:29until about this time. So, I'm rolling,

3:44:30man.

3:44:31>> Yeah, I'm ready to go.

3:44:31>> Yeah, I got [laughter] you. Yeah. Yeah,

3:44:33you're fired up, man.

3:44:34>> I'm good, man. I'm ready to go.

3:44:36Lee, I think we've done an exceptional

3:44:38job, but I wouldn't [clears throat] mind

3:44:40digesting it for a week too, you know,

3:44:43and

3:44:45>> look at it

3:44:46>> without something specific.

3:44:47[clears throat]

3:44:48>> Some if there's something specifically

3:44:51that you want, give the staff direction

3:44:54to be able to look into it. If if you're

3:44:56just wanting to digest what we've gone

3:44:58over, that's at your discretion as well.

3:45:01>> I mean, I just I don't see nothing.

3:45:04There's been some comments that made

3:45:05that, you know, I'd like to think about,

3:45:07but what we put together, I'd like just

3:45:09digest what we put together to come up

3:45:12with a conclusion.

3:45:13>> Up to the board's discretion.

3:45:15>> That's my thoughts. That's, you know,

3:45:17>> you make your decision.

3:45:18>> I get what you'd like to have some

3:45:20direction so you could be able to have

3:45:21something together on the 20th. Would

3:45:23you be opposed to us contacting you?

3:45:26>> No.

3:45:27>> Say in the next week or so,

3:45:29>> that would be fine. And then and maybe

3:45:30we could use a a Google doc or something

3:45:32where we could all be on the thing and

3:45:34just

3:45:36read any kind of in input that goes in.

3:45:39Other words, if Joe's got an idea,

3:45:43then we could all see it. Well, what

3:45:45would happen

3:45:47each individual that wants to contact

3:45:49me, I will make a list of proposed

3:45:52changes

3:45:54that we'll go over to see how the full

3:45:57board wants to see because we we haven't

3:45:59advertised that Google doc for everybody

3:46:02to be on there. I want everything to be

3:46:03transparent and happen in this room.

3:46:06>> So, if the board wants to propose

3:46:07something, I'm going to make a list.

3:46:10Greg proposes this, Joe proposes this,

3:46:13Dennis proposes this, Ted proposes it,

3:46:15Jim, whoever. And then we'll come back

3:46:17on the 20th and see how the full board

3:46:20likes those ideas and and and where to

3:46:23implement them in here.

3:46:24>> And that will be a public document.

3:46:25>> That will be a public doc.

3:46:26>> That's a public document. So just

3:46:28understand that.

3:46:29>> That's fine. Y

3:46:30>> I ask you to take a look at

3:46:35Sure. Sure. We'll look at that.

3:46:38>> I've written that down.

3:46:41I mean, I think that's what we'd like to

3:46:43do.

3:46:45>> I mean, I would like to do

3:46:48agree.

3:46:49>> So, nobody wants to

3:46:51>> just go on and approve what we've done

3:46:53and

3:46:53>> No, I don't

3:46:53>> I think we're really close, but I think

3:46:56>> since we have time before the next

3:46:58commissioner's meeting anyhow, let's use

3:47:00that to

3:47:01>> That's right.

3:47:01>> think it over.

3:47:02>> Yeah.

3:47:02>> Okay.

3:47:03>> Well, I want to say this. We we don't

3:47:06need to rehash everything that we've

3:47:08gone through tonight because we've got a

3:47:10the Piedmont

3:47:12liquid natural gas is on the 20th.

3:47:15That's going to be a big meeting.

3:47:17>> I'm going to bring a Snickers.

3:47:19>> Yep.

3:47:19>> I'm hungry. [laughter]

3:47:20>> So that's

3:47:22>> that that's in the hopper coming coming

3:47:25this way.

3:47:26>> Can I say something in relation to that?

3:47:27Because in in the past when we've had a

3:47:31second discussion on a second night, I

3:47:33don't want to I and maybe the board

3:47:36feels differently, but it's

3:47:39been an issue when the public wants to

3:47:40get up and speak again

3:47:43>> about the same thing. [clears throat]

3:47:45>> Yeah.

3:47:46>> And that's not something that will

3:47:47happen at the next meeting. We won't

3:47:49revisit this stuff again at in the same

3:47:53capacity. Um, am I wrong on on on trying

3:47:58to convey that?

3:47:59>> I'm glad. No,

3:48:00>> I think you're absolutely right.

3:48:02>> And this this is this happened, you

3:48:03know, not so long ago. And

3:48:05>> and I don't mean any disrespect by that.

3:48:07We love hearing from you, but tonight's

3:48:09the night for y'all to speak.

3:48:11>> Okay.

3:48:11>> Yeah, that's that's a good point, Ted.

3:48:14And I think that's appropriate. People

3:48:16were upset that they didn't get an

3:48:18opportunity even though they sat here

3:48:19and heard what we did. we had basically

3:48:22done the same thing where we waited to

3:48:26uh make a decision. So, um I'll try to

3:48:29do a better job of explaining why we're

3:48:31not going to take public comment when we

3:48:33bring it back up two weeks from now

3:48:36>> so people understand. Um so, yeah, I

3:48:41mean that's a good point. Thank you.

3:48:43>> Can I add one thing to that and I'm

3:48:45going to speak to it also to you guys.

3:48:46If folks you know who not here, your

3:48:49friends, if if you guys have additional

3:48:51thoughts, send them to me, send them to

3:48:53Lee. We we will make sure they see it.

3:48:57>> So I mean, we want to be open. Okay. So

3:48:59I mean, but but I mean to to the point

3:49:01though, that will be a busy meeting. We

3:49:03don't want to be here for hours, right?

3:49:04So

3:49:06[laughter]

3:49:13>> we'll get your name and address.

3:49:17120 homestead.

3:49:21>> Um, but you when you were talking about

3:49:24expressly

3:49:25>> Mhm. prohibiting something basically.

3:49:28Going back to the idea of closed loop or

3:49:34open

3:49:36>> could putting that in to these

3:49:40zoning uh ordinances,

3:49:43could that set us up

3:49:46by for the same type of issue?

3:49:50>> I I will say this in respect because you

3:49:53guys are not recording. I I have some

3:49:56real doubts if that's challenged and it

3:49:58will be eventually by someone. I have

3:50:01some real doubts about whether a county

3:50:02or city can actually enforce that.

3:50:04>> I'm I'm I'm just being I'm being real

3:50:06I'm being real with you

3:50:07>> and that's sort of why I'm asking. I

3:50:09mean I I agree that any closed looter

3:50:12would definitely be better. However, I

3:50:16understand

3:50:17the point that you have to give yourself

3:50:21permission.

3:50:21>> Everything's legal until it's

3:50:23challenged. If we go to court, I'm gonna

3:50:25insist that we can do it. But right, but

3:50:27but I'm just saying I we're gonna walk

3:50:30into court and I'm gonna go We'll see.

3:50:32We don't know. [laughter]

3:50:33>> Yeah. And and that's why I said what I

3:50:35did, too. Like she said,

3:50:36>> that's true. You're right. I wasn't sure

3:50:38it would hold up in court,

3:50:39>> right?

3:50:40>> But if it never goes to court, doesn't

3:50:42matter.

3:50:43>> That's right. [laughter]

3:50:43>> But if it's in the statute,

3:50:46>> they're they're talking about putting in

3:50:47the statute.

3:50:48>> Yeah. And that's a whole

3:50:49>> that's a different

3:50:51>> they are they are talking about putting

3:50:52that language in the statute.

3:50:56>> And that loop

3:50:59I want to shar

3:51:08and the closed loop system is now

3:51:10>> Raleigh can regulate.

3:51:12>> We probably should plainly

3:51:13>> we probably should.

3:51:14>> I don't know we can. So the best thing

3:51:17is and that that's still buried in

3:51:18committee. They in the Senate need to

3:51:20get that thing out of committee and get

3:51:21it passed, right? That is and actually

3:51:23also I think mandates that uh it's

3:51:26expressed that rateayers can't bear the

3:51:28cost of

3:51:28>> that. The rateayer protection stuff is a

3:51:30very critical piece of that and that's

3:51:32where it needs to be.

3:51:34>> That's where it needs to be.

3:51:36>> Okay. Let let me let me do something

3:51:38here. Oh, Jim.

3:51:39>> Yeah. Well, I think we've all agreed

3:51:42that we'd like to continue this.

3:51:43>> We have. So,

3:51:44>> and I'd like to make that motion

3:51:46>> to date certain, time certain.

3:51:48>> 20th.

3:51:49>> The 20th 6:00 p.m. in this room.

3:51:53>> All right, that's a motion.

3:51:54>> Second and a second. Any further

3:51:56discussion?

3:51:58All in favor, raise your hand. Opposed?

3:52:02There are none. So, that will be our

3:52:04plan. Um,

3:52:08I was just going to say y'all y'all all

3:52:11welcome to hang around maybe downstairs,

3:52:14whatever. We can keep talking, but I

3:52:16think we're going to

3:52:18>> go home, but you can't stay.

3:52:19>> That's right. Yeah, [laughter]

3:52:22>> I used to talk, you know. Well, anyway,

3:52:25>> thank you folks.

3:52:26>> Appreciate all the comments tonight.

3:52:27>> Yes. Thank y'all for the comments and

3:52:30excellent discussion with us.

3:52:32>> Thank you for listening. No problem.

3:52:36>> I wish every motion to adjourn.

3:52:38>> That's all that's all the business I

3:52:40have.

3:52:41Not yet. I said a controversial thing. I

3:52:44wish it went.

3:52:45>> I made a motion to journal.

3:52:49It's unanimous.