2026-08-10 - Board of Commissioners
Summary
Summary written from YouTube auto-captions of the meeting; names, figures and speaker attributions may be misheard.
Time on topic (from transcript timestamps; approximate, includes side talk):
| Topic | Minutes | Share |
|---|---|---|
| EMS Study and BLS Support | 75 | 53% |
| Appointments and closed session | 34 | 24% |
| Public address | 10 | 7% |
| Procedure | 10 | 7% |
| Flock License Plate Reader Cameras | 7 | 5% |
| Rezoning at Holloway Church Road and NC 8 (Southmont) | 5 | 4% |
| Needs-Based School Capital Grants | 1 | 0% |
- Regular evening meeting; Commissioners McClure and Matt Mizell were excused.
Public address
0:10:15-0:19:50
- A Master Gardener asked that the county become a designated bee community.
- Chuck Slabetski asked for a county vision and about incentives.
- Speakers opposed the sheriff's Flock license plate cameras; one resident warned citizens would remove them by January 2027.
Flock License Plate Reader Cameras
0:19:50-0:26:55
- Cost cited at about $76,000 a year for 22 to 25 cameras.
- Raised only in public comment at this meeting.
Rezoning at Holloway Church Road and NC 8 (Southmont)
0:26:55-0:32:20
- Public hearing on a rezoning in Cotton Grove Township (tax map 34A lot 23) from RM1 to Highway Commercial; approved with a statement of consistency.
- The applicant, Kirk Kleinert (spelling as captioned), was absent.
- A Kindle Communications request was withdrawn.
EMS Study and BLS Support
0:33:00-1:48:05
- The main item, presented by NCACC consultants (an NCACC contractor and the former chief of the state Office of EMS).
- Findings: about 93,000 incidents over three years, 12 trucks by day and 10 at night, a 90th percentile response near 20 minutes, calls overlapping 84% of the time; the system was described as stable, dependable and clinically capable.
- Recommendations: peak-time BLS units, a Base 3 replacement on county land on Enterprise Road (about $650,000 new versus about $500,000 to repair), a Silver Valley base, a $3 per hour night differential, 911 call-takers and a cardiac catheterization lab (Novant is pursuing a certificate of need).
- Maness noted $2.9 million in the CIP for EMS bases.
Needs-Based School Capital Grants
0:32:20-0:33:00
- The consent agenda, which included the Lexington and Thomasville school items, was approved.
Appointments and closed session
1:48:05-2:22:28
- Clark Brown appointed to a Board of Adjustment seat (on Chris Elliott's motion) and Christian Jones as an alternate.
- Closed session on Barry Allen Richards v. Davidson County DSS (OAH case 26 OSP 01858); instructions given.
Sources
Video
Transcript
These are auto-generated YouTube captions and are likely to contain misheard names (for example "Mayus", "Manis" and "Haynes" for the assistant county manager, "Meiselle" for Mizell, "Mccclure" for McClure). Timestamps are h:mm:ss from the start of the video; the stream also contains long music or silence stretches during closed sessions, shown as "Heat." lines.
Transcript
0:04:18[music]
0:07:00Heat.
0:07:17Heat.
0:07:43Welcome to the Davidson County Board of
0:07:45Commissioners meeting tonight for August
0:07:47the 10th. Welcome to our audience
0:07:50tonight. We appreciate you being here.
0:07:51I'll call on Commissioner Elliott to do
0:07:55our invocation and pledge of allegiance.
0:07:56>> Amen.
0:07:58>> Heavenly Father God, we come before you
0:08:00tonight with a grateful heart. Father,
0:08:02we're thankful, Lord, for uh this
0:08:05wonderful county and country that we
0:08:06live in. Father God, we're thankful for
0:08:08our first responders and the men and the
0:08:11women who fight for us on the front
0:08:13lines in our military. Father, I'm
0:08:16thankful, God, for this board of
0:08:17commissioners. We're thankful for the
0:08:19citizenry and we're thankful for every
0:08:21employee that's employed for Davidson
0:08:24County government and all they do to
0:08:26keep our community safe and thriving.
0:08:29And we pray God you give us wisdom
0:08:30tonight as we do the people's business.
0:08:32In Jesus name I pray. Amen.
0:08:35>> Amen.
0:08:38I pledge allegiance to the flag of the
0:08:42United States of America and to the
0:08:44republic for which it stands, one nation
0:08:48under God, indivisible, with liberty and
0:08:52justice for all.
0:09:01>> I would like to um recognize uh Dr.
0:09:05Slate from Davidson County Schools.
0:09:07Thank you for being here. And anyone
0:09:09else uh especially our our uh directors
0:09:13throughout the county, thank you for
0:09:15being here and our and our audience. Um
0:09:18turn it over to Commissioner Shell to
0:09:20recognize our veterans.
0:09:22>> Okay.
0:09:24Do we have any veterans? If you would
0:09:26please stand.
0:09:29Okay.
0:09:32[applause]
0:09:35If if you have not received the county
0:09:38veterans pen, would you please come up
0:09:40so we can present it to you?
0:09:44>> Okay.
0:09:46>> If you have not registered for public
0:09:48address, we'll we'll come on up here,
0:09:51sir.
0:09:55>> Pause.
0:09:55>> Thank you, sir. For you, sir.
0:09:58>> Thank you for your service.
0:10:05Thank you for your service.
0:10:07Appreciate your appreciation.
0:10:09>> Thank you, sir.
0:10:10>> Thank you, sir.
0:10:13>> And if you have not registered for
0:10:15public address, you can do so at this
0:10:17table at the front. I'd like to ask for
0:10:21um
0:10:22>> right over here.
0:10:23>> Right over here. I'd like to ask that
0:10:25you uh excuse Commissioners Mccclure and
0:10:28Meiselle. they are unable to attend
0:10:30tonight. May I have a motion and a
0:10:31second?
0:10:32>> So move, Mr. Chairwoman.
0:10:33>> I have a motion and have a second. All
0:10:36in favor say I.
0:10:37>> I. Thank you.
0:10:42>> Okay,
0:10:45we have a
0:10:50like for you to for us to adopt the
0:10:53agenda. Are there any changes for the
0:10:56agenda? I apologize. Turn your fault.
0:10:59>> Okay. No changes.
0:10:59>> Oh, I'm glad you
0:11:01>> hear none. I'll make a motion we approve
0:11:03adopt the agenda.
0:11:05>> Okay. And I have a second from Mr.
0:11:07Kester. All in favor say I.
0:11:09>> I.
0:11:10>> Thank you.
0:11:25Mr. Appreciate it. We [clears throat]
0:11:28have a few uh signed up for tonight.
0:11:31Susan Scarbor may come forward to the
0:11:36podium. Thank you.
0:11:45Good evening. My name is Susan Scarboro.
0:11:47I'm the chair of the pollinator garden
0:11:49initiative for [snorts] the Davidson
0:11:52County Extension Master Gardener
0:11:54volunteers. I'm here to represent them.
0:12:00We began this pollinator garden
0:12:01initiative in 2024 and for three years
0:12:04we've had educational programs delivered
0:12:07at libraries, senior services centers,
0:12:11and farmers markets.
0:12:14As Davidson County homeowners have
0:12:17learned how to replace their grass in
0:12:20their yards with native plants that feed
0:12:23and provide shelter to the over 580
0:12:27native bees and other native
0:12:29pollinators. They report feelings of
0:12:32calmness, joy, and autonomy for making
0:12:36this decision.
0:12:38Extension Master Gardener volunteers
0:12:40have also planted gardens at the Wall
0:12:43Museum in Wahberg and at Harrison Park
0:12:46in Denton. This past year, extension
0:12:50master gardener volunteers also worked
0:12:52with the Lexington Garden Club to help
0:12:55plant pots on Maine, beautiful flower
0:12:58arrangements that remind shoppers of our
0:13:01[clears throat] connection with nature.
0:13:04Most recently, the Pollinator Garden
0:13:07Initiative
0:13:09Committee is seeking to partner with
0:13:12Thomasville, Lexington, and all the
0:13:15remaining townships within Davidson
0:13:17County so that we can continue to enjoy
0:13:21the pollinator services offered by
0:13:23native bees, butterflies, moths,
0:13:26fireflies, bats, and even wasps and
0:13:29beetles.
0:13:31In light of recent discussions about
0:13:34change within our county,
0:13:37I want to ask all the citizens and all
0:13:40the public servants within the sound of
0:13:42my voice to plant a garden of native
0:13:46pollinator plants on their properties.
0:13:51If not for the work of pollinators, we
0:13:54would not have many of the fruits,
0:13:56vegetables that we love and enjoy so
0:13:58much, as well as chocolate or coffee.
0:14:03So, please provide these pollinators
0:14:05with the necessary native plants so that
0:14:08they can have food and shelter. We need
0:14:11these insects.
0:14:14And now with so much native habitat
0:14:17being destroyed by industrialization,
0:14:21many housing developments, and loss of
0:14:23farmland, it's up to homeowners to
0:14:27provide them space to live and work. I
0:14:30don't know about you, but I don't want
0:14:32the future generations to grow up eating
0:14:34man-made alternative food because their
0:14:38forefathers destroyed all the
0:14:41pollinators.
0:14:42So specifically tonight, I'm asking this
0:14:45board
0:14:46to consider doing this.
0:14:54>> Sorry, I lost.
0:14:55>> Three minutes, ma'am.
0:14:56>> I know you you
0:14:57>> Was it three minutes already?
0:14:59>> Yes. It goes quickly, doesn't it? You
0:15:01can finish what you're
0:15:02>> Well, thank you. We're asking you to
0:15:04strongly consider designating Davidson
0:15:07County, the entire county as a B
0:15:10community, by following
0:15:13the suggestions and procedures within
0:15:15this pamphlet. I'd love to leave for
0:15:17you, as well as I'd love to leave you
0:15:20and everyone here who would like to have
0:15:22a bee and flower card to help you to
0:15:24know what to plant and who you're
0:15:26feeding and sheltering. And I'd also
0:15:29like to invite you to the to participate
0:15:32in the Great Southeast Pollinator
0:15:34Census, which is August 21st and 22nd.
0:15:38And this is the third year that Davidson
0:15:40County, North Carolina, has done this.
0:15:43And there are five other states in the
0:15:45Southeast counting pollinators. They're
0:15:48critical not only for the foods we love,
0:15:52but for our future. Thank you.
0:15:55>> You very much. Can I ask Miss Garberg a
0:15:58question? And you may be up up to date
0:16:00on this or not. I don't know. It's
0:16:01because it's something I've recently
0:16:03just heard. Do you know have any
0:16:05information on the hornet that's
0:16:07attacked in our honeybees?
0:16:09>> Yes. It's a yellow. It's a bald-faced
0:16:12yellowlegged hornet.
0:16:14>> And um unfortunately, a friend of mine,
0:16:17another master gardener who lives not
0:16:20too far off of 64 West did find them in
0:16:24her garden. M
0:16:25>> so she's not a beekeeper. Yeah.
0:16:27>> But there are beekeepers around.
0:16:29>> Right.
0:16:30>> So unfortunately we have spotted that in
0:16:33Davidson County.
0:16:34>> Okay. Okay. Thank you for that.
0:16:36>> M Scarbar. I'd like to share also at the
0:16:40senior center. Uh they have a beautiful
0:16:43this and I went out there and saw it
0:16:45this year. Uh a pollinator garden over
0:16:47there that's absolutely beautiful.
0:16:49>> It is gorgeous and I've been out there
0:16:51many times. Yes ma'am.
0:16:52>> I wish you had. So may I leave you? Can
0:16:55you leave that with Debbie and Demi?
0:16:56Will you scan that? I just had somebody
0:16:58text me and tell me they wanted
0:17:03>> the pollinated garden.
0:17:05>> I will keep the extras in case.
0:17:07>> Thank you.
0:17:08>> Thank you.
0:17:09>> Anybody else have anything?
0:17:11>> Thank you very much.
0:17:12>> Thank you.
0:17:14>> Chuck Sleetski,
0:17:17how are you, sir?
0:17:19>> I'm well.
0:17:20>> Welcome.
0:17:23Well, that was really interesting. The
0:17:26young lady talked about uh the farms and
0:17:28the uh the the bees. I don't know how
0:17:32that's going to work with industrial
0:17:34plants, with um uh data centers, with
0:17:38all the noise and pollution that's
0:17:40created by all the other things that
0:17:44maybe you're going to do. I don't know.
0:17:47I'm still waiting for your vision for
0:17:51Davidson County.
0:17:53This lady wasted what? Six minutes, five
0:17:57minutes on something where what you
0:17:59might do is going to destroy the bees
0:18:03that we have left. But you're acting so
0:18:06concerned.
0:18:07I don't know. Where are you driving this
0:18:10bus? What is your future plans? What do
0:18:14you see happening in Davidson County? Do
0:18:18you want industry? If so, then that
0:18:21would make sense with some of the
0:18:23decisions that you're making.
0:18:26If you don't want industry, if you want
0:18:28to protect the farms, then tell us that
0:18:31so we know what you're trying to do. We
0:18:35cannot tell if you're doing a good or
0:18:37bad job because you don't have a plan.
0:18:41Apparently, I've been up here over and
0:18:43over again asking, "What is your vision
0:18:46for the future?" And I've heard nothing.
0:18:51In addition to that, one of my biggest
0:18:54fears now besides NDAs is what are you
0:18:58giving away as far as incentives for
0:19:01industry and plants to come here that we
0:19:06don't want?
0:19:08I would love to know if you're planning
0:19:10on giving the Sports Plex any kind of
0:19:13incentives.
0:19:15I'd like to know if you're planning on
0:19:17doing that for Duke Energy. I'd love to
0:19:20know if you're planning on doing that
0:19:22for uh any kind of data center.
0:19:26Again, I hear nothing. I'm sure my three
0:19:30minutes is up. Thank you.
0:19:32>> Thank you.
0:19:32>> Thank you. [applause]
0:19:38Mike Price,
0:19:44>> how are you?
0:19:45>> Hi.
0:19:46>> I won't take much of your precious time.
0:19:47You said three minutes. It's probably
0:19:49half that. My name is Mike Price. I was
0:19:51raised in this county. I've created
0:19:53several businesses in the state of North
0:19:54Carolina since retired and uh spend the
0:19:56majority of my time in this county. I've
0:19:58never really been involved in local
0:20:00politics, mainly because I've never
0:20:01really needed to be. Uh growing up and
0:20:03throughout most of my life, it seemed
0:20:04that most of our local politicians kind
0:20:06of shared my belief system and cared
0:20:08about the upholding of the Constitution,
0:20:10the United States, and bettering the
0:20:11area we live in. I'm I'm proud to be
0:20:13from this county.
0:20:16And I'm starting to get a little bit
0:20:17concerned. It seems like I've been wrong
0:20:19about some of this. I I've voted in
0:20:21basically every election since I was old
0:20:23enough to vote. I voted for most of you.
0:20:25Actually, I think I voted for all of
0:20:26you. Um I voted for our sheriff. Uh, and
0:20:31I'm starting to kind of come to regret
0:20:33that the implement the implementation of
0:20:36flock cameras in this county is a
0:20:38complete failure on part of the
0:20:39commissions except for Todd Yates. I saw
0:20:41that you did not uh vote for that and
0:20:43our sheriff.
0:20:45This is a mistake that we'll all be held
0:20:48personally accountable for. You've
0:20:51wasted taxpayer money and blatantly
0:20:53violated the Fourth Amendment rights of
0:20:54the citizens of the county with these
0:20:56cameras. And we, the citizens of this
0:20:58county, are here for three main purposes
0:21:01today. Purpose one is to tell you in
0:21:04person that we are prepared to work with
0:21:07you to get these cameras taken down in a
0:21:08collaborative way. Uh I prefer that pro
0:21:12uh that approach. I think everybody
0:21:13prefers that collaborative approach.
0:21:16Purpose two, we'd like to offer help.
0:21:17I'd like to offer financial resources,
0:21:20any sort of resources towards that that
0:21:22effort um to clean up this mess. And
0:21:27purpose three is to say is to inform you
0:21:29that the removal these if the removal of
0:21:32these cameras is not collaborative by
0:21:34January of 2027. Citizens of this county
0:21:37will remove these cameras. Okay.
0:21:42Ourselves. We will not forfeit our
0:21:45fourth amendment rights and we will not
0:21:47live in a police state. That's right.
0:21:49>> I speak for myself and I speak for many
0:21:51of the citizens. Okay.
0:21:53It's as simple as that.
0:21:59I want to handle it in a friendly
0:22:01collaborative basis. I have no animosity
0:22:03towards anyone, but I will not have my
0:22:05my my life tracked every second of what
0:22:08I do every day to some database. Okay,
0:22:12that's a hard line for me. I've never
0:22:14been to any of these things. I don't
0:22:15want to come to this stuff, but that is
0:22:16a hard line for me. Okay.
0:22:20So, I think that my my the guy that's
0:22:23going to come after me, he knows more
0:22:24about the ins and outs of this sort of
0:22:26stuff, but this is just my way of saying
0:22:28that this is something that matters a
0:22:29lot to me and I'm willing to put
0:22:31resources behind a friendly,
0:22:33collaborative way of getting this done.
0:22:35But either way, the flight cameras are
0:22:37they're done.
0:22:38>> Thank you. Thank you, SIR. [applause]
0:22:46BEN, can you pronounce your name for me?
0:22:49>> Yes. Ben D. Ro.
0:22:50>> D. Ro.
0:22:51>> Yes.
0:22:51>> Thank you.
0:22:52>> And uh really I don't have a speech
0:22:53written or anything. I just want to know
0:22:55what the steps would be. I know these
0:22:56have already been voted in. From what I
0:22:58understand, these cameras uh renew every
0:23:01year. Um I understand the sheriff uh
0:23:04sponsored the cameras the first year. I
0:23:05guess that's kind of how he got it
0:23:06approved. Now, as citizens, of course,
0:23:10we foot the 76,000 roughly for the 22 or
0:23:1323 cameras that are in the county. Um, I
0:23:16need to know what we need to do, you
0:23:18know, to, you know, find out about
0:23:20stopping this to get them taken down, of
0:23:22course. What are the next steps? I don't
0:23:24know if this is comes to a vote uh for
0:23:26you all that we press. Um, what do we
0:23:28need to do? What what what comes next?
0:23:32>> One of the commissioners would need to
0:23:33put it on the agenda.
0:23:34>> Okay. and they would need to be voted on
0:23:36again whether to uh
0:23:38>> and we're building we just started a
0:23:40group and we're building active members.
0:23:41We have over 200. Um some are here
0:23:44tonight. Most of them are out in the
0:23:45county, but you know we're going to keep
0:23:48coming to these until maybe we can Mr.
0:23:50Yates. I know you were one of the only
0:23:52ones that voted against it, the only
0:23:53one. So maybe, you know, eventually I
0:23:55can get enough of a signature together
0:23:57that maybe we could, you know, put this
0:24:00before the board.
0:24:01>> Put it on the agenda
0:24:02>> for me. I'm gain. When did we vote?
0:24:05>> Get rid OF
0:24:10[applause]
0:24:11>> I was not a commissioner when that was
0:24:13voted on because I would not vote for
0:24:14that garbage.
0:24:15>> Excellent. I'm telling you.
0:24:16>> EXCELLENT.
0:24:18[applause]
0:24:19>> Sounds like we'll put it on the next uh
0:24:21>> can be abused.
0:24:22>> Yes. And it is being abused. There's
0:24:24there's 10 officers last week in
0:24:26Charlotte Meckllinburgg that under
0:24:27investigation for illegal tracking and
0:24:30usage of these cameras. And there's a
0:24:31lot of other things. They're creating a
0:24:33database. People say it's just crime and
0:24:35things like that. It's not true. There's
0:24:37there's a much bigger picture here. And
0:24:38they're creating a database.
0:24:39>> I saw a gentleman that stepped up to a
0:24:41board. I think it was in Washington said
0:24:43that he was starting a new a new company
0:24:45and he was going to put cameras on every
0:24:48member of the board to track our kids
0:24:50and where we go for our safety. Exactly.
0:24:52And that, you know, nobody wants that.
0:24:55>> Exactly. [clears throat]
0:24:56>> Under the realm of safety.
0:24:58>> Debbie, when's the next agenda you can
0:25:00get that on? that ain't covered up.
0:25:02>> The [clears throat] 28th is the next
0:25:03meeting.
0:25:04>> I'm sorry. 24th.
0:25:06>> I appreciate y'all. I appreciate y'all
0:25:08standing up against that.
0:25:09>> Is that a pretty heavy meeting?
0:25:11>> The 24th of August.
0:25:12>> Mhm.
0:25:13>> So, it'll be a nighttime meeting.
0:25:15>> Yes.
0:25:15>> So, 24th of August and we'll have more
0:25:17here and we'll put it to a vote. Yes.
0:25:19>> Is that correct?
0:25:20>> Amen.
0:25:20>> Okay. Thank you. Appreciate you guys.
0:25:22Thank you. [applause]
0:25:26>> Okay. That's all we have for that.
0:25:30Thank you for speaking with us.
0:25:35>> Here comes
0:25:36>> I don't remember
0:25:40voting.
0:25:41>> But that you know we we vote on a lot.
0:25:43>> We do.
0:25:44>> We
0:25:46might have been in the consent.
0:25:48>> It could have been in the consent agenda
0:25:50actually presented on it but they
0:25:51weren't called block cameras at the
0:25:52time.
0:25:53>> Okay. Well,
0:25:54>> do you remember what they were called,
0:25:55Debbie?
0:25:56>> No, sir. right
0:25:56>> because I don't think I can I remember
0:25:59the discussion on
0:26:01>> that they were going to
0:26:02>> missing children how to track missing
0:26:04children I don't remember anything block
0:26:07camera but I may be mistaken on
0:26:09>> and it was it was grant funed the first
0:26:11year
0:26:12>> yeah I know they pay for I thought with
0:26:14for their forfe
0:26:16yeah
0:26:16>> and that was what the county
0:26:18appropriation
0:26:19>> they're beginning to be on every corner
0:26:21that's
0:26:21>> they don't matter not good
0:26:23>> I've got this on my shoulder
0:26:27Okay.
0:26:29>> I think most of us up here agree agree
0:26:31with the government
0:26:32>> and it wasn't presented that way
0:26:34initially.
0:26:36>> I think if we do it too, we need to do
0:26:38some kind of uh amendment to tell the
0:26:40city where we stand on theirs too.
0:26:43>> I agree cuz they just put one up right
0:26:45here by center in the last month.
0:26:47>> The brand there are other brands behind
0:26:50them that are ready to take.
0:26:51>> We don't like no brand.
0:26:52>> We don't like the brand. Yeah,
0:26:56>> really appreciate that,
0:26:57>> sir. Appreciate y'all.
0:26:59>> Yeah.
0:27:00>> Okay, Mr. Crook, are you ready for us to
0:27:02get started? Thank you very much. We
0:27:04have a resigning request by Kirk W.
0:27:06Kleinard in Cotton Grove Township. And
0:27:09I'll turn it over to Mr. Crook.
0:27:11>> Thank you, Madam Chair. Um, we do have
0:27:13[clears throat] a request tonight by
0:27:14Kirk Kleiner W. declined for reszoning
0:27:17property located in Cotton Grove
0:27:19Township, tax map 34A, lot 23,
0:27:22containing 007 acres more or less. Said
0:27:26property is located on the north side of
0:27:27Holloway Church Road, approximately 180
0:27:30ft east of the North Carolina Highway 8
0:27:33intersection. Reszoning is requested to
0:27:35change from that of RM1, Medium Density
0:27:37Residential District, to that of HC
0:27:40Highway commercial district. If you'd
0:27:41please divert your attention to the
0:27:43overhead, this little sliver right here
0:27:45is what we're talking about in yellow.
0:27:47This is NC Highway 8. This is West
0:27:49Holloway Church. This is Holloway
0:27:51Church. We're quote unquote in downtown
0:27:54Southmont, if you will. Um the how this
0:27:58piece of property survived back in 2006
0:28:02or 2007, NC DOT purchased right away. If
0:28:06you folks will remember, the hardware
0:28:08house restaurant was right here on the
0:28:09corner and then there was some buildings
0:28:12right in behind that. That property line
0:28:14went out to this old red line. That's
0:28:16what the property used to look like and
0:28:18they purchased better than half of it
0:28:19for right away for Holloway's Church
0:28:21Road. So, Mr. Kleiner has this little
0:28:24one little sliver of RM1 zoning. Um
0:28:27everything to the north of him is
0:28:28highway commercial and the RM1 was
0:28:31placed in Southmont because of u there's
0:28:34a lot of little bitty small 25 ft lots
0:28:36on an old platted subdivision down
0:28:38there. So at this point I'll yield the
0:28:40floor back to you madam chair and you
0:28:41can open the public hearing if you'd
0:28:42like.
0:28:42>> I declare the public hearing open. Are
0:28:45there any questions about the board?
0:28:47>> No ma'am.
0:28:49>> Okay.
0:28:50>> Seems kind of straightforward right?
0:28:52>> It does. Is there anyone in the audience
0:28:54who wishes to speak either in favor of
0:28:56or against in opposition to this
0:28:59request?
0:29:00>> Is anyone here to speak on Mr. Kleiner's
0:29:02behalf?
0:29:05>> We our office reached out and left a
0:29:07message for him today and he he's not
0:29:09apparently not here. Our representative
0:29:11is not here. I'll leave it up to the
0:29:13discretion of the board as to as to what
0:29:15you want to do. This is very simple.
0:29:18>> I'm good. It looks like it might have
0:29:20been been attached to number 22. Am I
0:29:23correct at one time? Because it's HC.
0:29:26>> And it was actually it was actually its
0:29:28own separate parcel.
0:29:30>> Oh, is it? Yeah. Very small. Yeah,
0:29:32>> they own everything in 22.
0:29:33>> Yeah. M. Mr. Kleiner does own everything
0:29:3622 all the way up to the Marathon gas
0:29:39station.
0:29:40>> Um, this for staff recommendation. And
0:29:42this is this is in downtown South Mod is
0:29:45recognized by the Davidson County Land
0:29:47Development Plan as a commercial node.
0:29:49Uh it's contiguous to existing highway
0:29:52commercial and there are quite a few uh
0:29:56>> I'm sorry.
0:29:58>> Yes.
0:29:59>> Is that landlocked?
0:30:00>> No, sir. No, sir. It's gotage on
0:30:02Holloway Church.
0:30:03>> Okay.
0:30:04>> Yes, sir. Okay.
0:30:04>> I declare the public hearing closed. So,
0:30:09Mr. Crook was going to say a few more
0:30:11things. Go ahead. Just wanted to uh
0:30:12reference our Davidson County Land
0:30:14Development Plan policies 11124151718
0:30:181116 117 121 5455 577 73 and 74 that
0:30:25support non-residential development in
0:30:27this part of the county. Uh and it
0:30:29complies with article 7 of the ordinance
0:30:31and we'd recommend that you uh approve
0:30:34this request and adopt statement of
0:30:36consistency. Please. Madam Chair, I make
0:30:38a motion we approve this request with
0:30:40the statement of consistency attached.
0:30:42>> I have a motion. Do I have a second?
0:30:44>> Second.
0:30:44>> Have a motion and a second. All in favor
0:30:47say I.
0:30:47>> I.
0:30:48>> All right.
0:30:49>> I got a question, Mr. Crook.
0:30:51>> Yes, sir.
0:30:52>> I mean, I know probably legally we have
0:30:55to do this, but looks like some of this
0:30:57would come back to the zoning by default
0:31:00because it's only a small piece of
0:31:02property. The rest of you you guys
0:31:05understand what I'm saying? I mean,
0:31:06somebody had to pay decent money to get
0:31:09this reszoned.
0:31:11>> Well, you you would think initially you
0:31:15would think DOT would have purchased the
0:31:17whole property for the rightway that
0:31:19then the then the RM1 would have gone
0:31:21away.
0:31:22>> Unfortunately, statutoily
0:31:24>> this is the only action that we can take
0:31:26to change zoning on a piece of property.
0:31:28Even even if it's, you know, if this was
0:31:31not owned by Mr. Kleinet, it would be
0:31:33unusable for anything.
0:31:34>> Yeah. So,
0:31:35>> I know that's the case, but I'm just
0:31:37saying by default.
0:31:38>> Oh, yeah. And then, you know, what did
0:31:40it cost him to reszone this?
0:31:41>> Uh, it cost him uh 300.
0:31:43>> 300
0:31:44>> or 350, excuse me.
0:31:45>> That's a lot of m That's a lot of money.
0:31:47>> Yeah. It's just a piece that it's it's
0:31:49got to be zoned that way.
0:31:51>> I know.
0:31:51>> Yeah.
0:31:52>> Okay. Thank you.
0:31:53>> No problem.
0:31:53>> Thank you. Um our second request um um
0:31:58is um Kindle Communications, but this
0:32:01application has been withdrawn and
0:32:04there's nothing to hear, so I think we
0:32:06can just
0:32:07>> No action required.
0:32:08>> Exactly.
0:32:09>> Yep.
0:32:09>> Okay. Thank you for your help tonight.
0:32:12>> I hope your sun roof is closed.
0:32:14>> Yeah, me [laughter] too.
0:32:17>> Okay.
0:32:19>> Okay. Are there any items to remove from
0:32:22the consent agenda for discussion? Quite
0:32:24a bit on there. I did want to, you know,
0:32:27if you if you wanted to look at the
0:32:29details, both of the things from the
0:32:31Lexington school system and the Thompson
0:32:34school system are uh detailed in in the
0:32:38consent agenda.
0:32:40>> I'm I'm good with the consent agenda,
0:32:42Madam Chair, and I'd make a motion to
0:32:43approve it as read if there's no
0:32:45commissioner that has anything.
0:32:46>> I don't believe we do. Do I have a
0:32:48second?
0:32:53>> Second.
0:32:53>> Okay. All in favor say I.
0:32:56>> I.
0:32:58Consent agenda. Thank you very much for
0:33:00that. Let me see if I can find the next
0:33:02page.
0:33:04>> EMS consultant.
0:33:05>> Okay. So, now we're into the
0:33:08deliberation tonight. I'm going to turn
0:33:10it over to Mr. Haynes. We're going to
0:33:12have a presentation by our EMS
0:33:15consultant.
0:33:15>> Thank you, Dr. like um
0:33:17>> being here.
0:33:18>> Thank you.
0:33:21>> Good evening, commissioners.
0:33:23>> So, we have Mr. Grayson and Mr. Miss
0:33:25Crawford here and they're going to do
0:33:26our presentation.
0:33:27>> Okay.
0:33:27>> And I think Tim and I may have a little
0:33:29piece and we'll take questions and
0:33:31discussions afterwards. So,
0:33:32>> Okay. Thank you.
0:33:36>> Good evening.
0:33:37>> Good evening, commissioners.
0:33:39>> Thank you so much for having both of us
0:33:41back uh here with you this evening. and
0:33:43we appreciate the opportunity uh to be
0:33:45with you and thank you for your Thank
0:33:47you. Thank you for your interest and
0:33:49your support, you know, of all local
0:33:51government. Uh I've been in local
0:33:53government my whole life. Miss Crawford
0:33:55has as well. Uh when you think about the
0:33:57the core services, obviously protecting
0:33:59our folks and protecting people and
0:34:01providing emergency medical services is
0:34:03is key to that. And we appreciate the
0:34:05opportunity to have worked with you and
0:34:07bringing information forward that will
0:34:09hopefully help moving moving us forward
0:34:11into the future. So, uh, just, uh, want
0:34:14to introduce Miss Crawford here with me
0:34:16as well. She's going to be giving you
0:34:17the majority of the information. Uh, her
0:34:19entire career has been with, uh, EMS.
0:34:21She's retired as the, uh, chief of the
0:34:24North Carolina Office of EMS, and she is
0:34:26our subject matter expert on the EMS
0:34:28components, but I will talk with you a
0:34:30little bit about the structure and what
0:34:32we looked at and and some of the
0:34:33overview here before uh, she goes into
0:34:35some of the details. So, we do work with
0:34:38the North Carolina Association of County
0:34:39Commissioners. where their contractor
0:34:40for fire consulting across North
0:34:42Carolina. We've worked with a number of
0:34:44counties and many more municipalities,
0:34:46some 250 so type projects. We have
0:34:49helped some counties with EMS components
0:34:51as Miss Crawford has specialized in that
0:34:54and uh we have a a contract work with
0:34:56the association to be able to do that.
0:34:58So for for Davidson County, there were
0:35:01seven key pieces and I think it's
0:35:03important before we jump into the the
0:35:05the numbers and the components to let
0:35:07you know what we looked at. We tried to
0:35:08look at this through many different
0:35:10lenses. Uh the first being the
0:35:12stakeholder feedback. We listen to your
0:35:14EMS personnel. Uh Miss Crawford as well
0:35:16as another member of our team face to
0:35:18face talking to them, listening to them.
0:35:20Uh talking about uh strengths,
0:35:22weaknesses, opportunities, threats, what
0:35:24they saw as a vision for the future and
0:35:27what their needs were in their top
0:35:28issues. There's many issues. You can go
0:35:30to any organization. There's many
0:35:31issues. One of our goals is to try to
0:35:33prioritize those for you as policy
0:35:35makers and decision makers. But we felt
0:35:37like it was really important to listen
0:35:39to your personnel. We had really good
0:35:41interaction with your personnel and and
0:35:43your staff worked really well with us to
0:35:45make all that happen. So we listened to
0:35:47what they said. Then we came back to
0:35:48them and said, "Okay, here's what we
0:35:50heard. Help us prioritize this." So, you
0:35:53know, we didn't there's no way to talk
0:35:54to everyone. Somebody's out or off or on
0:35:56a call or whatever may be, but the
0:35:58survey helped to make sure everyone had
0:36:00a voice and we think that's important.
0:36:02So, there was really good inclusion with
0:36:04that. We went a little further and said,
0:36:06"Okay, the agencies that work with EMS,
0:36:09let's hear from them." Those might be
0:36:11first responder fire departments. It
0:36:12might be law enforcement. It could be
0:36:14the uh um you know, other agencies
0:36:17within the county that were identified.
0:36:18So, we listened to them and said, "What
0:36:20do you think about this?" So, they're
0:36:22partners. They're they're uh still
0:36:24working towards the goal of helping
0:36:26people on the worst day of their life,
0:36:28trying to help them to to survive. So,
0:36:30we listen we listen to partners as well.
0:36:33We did a lot of incident data and you're
0:36:34going to hear Miss Crawford talk about
0:36:36that. We looked at over three years of
0:36:38incidents that occurred in Davidson
0:36:40County. 90,000 plus in number. So it was
0:36:44it's significant. So we we looked at all
0:36:46those incidents. That's probably one of
0:36:48the most challenging pieces we had in
0:36:50this this process was getting through
0:36:53looking at all that. But it's really
0:36:54important to know, you know, what your
0:36:57call volume is, your your workload, your
0:36:59demand. You have to know where you are
0:37:01today to project for the future. And so
0:37:03we we worked on looking in a little bit
0:37:06in the you know where are we today a
0:37:07little bit in the rearview mirror the
0:37:08last few years and try to project moving
0:37:11forward. We have an excellent GIS
0:37:13analyst. He worked with your county
0:37:15staff and getting mapping and data and
0:37:17information together uh such things as
0:37:20well what how far can we go from these
0:37:22bases uh within a a particular time
0:37:24frame. You know how much of the counties
0:37:26covered all those types of pieces. And
0:37:28then he he really integrated much of
0:37:30that in that that incident data into the
0:37:33maps as well. So when you get your
0:37:35report and you look through that, you're
0:37:36going to see a lot of maps. Well, that's
0:37:38important because it paints a picture.
0:37:39And so as you look at those, uh we did
0:37:42harness GIS. We thank the county staff
0:37:44who work with us in doing that as well.
0:37:47We have a a fairly large team of people
0:37:50that looked looked at these uh
0:37:52components and um brought their
0:37:54expertise. You know, obviously, uh, Miss
0:37:56Crawford is our our lead there, but we
0:37:58have other folks. We have some of our
0:38:00our chiefs who are also paramedics and
0:38:02worked in EMS their entire career. Uh,
0:38:04we have, um, people who have really
0:38:07focused on on writing and developing
0:38:09strategic plans, uh, and have worked in
0:38:11other with other counties in EMS
0:38:13provision. So, we developed observations
0:38:15and recommendations. That's what you ask
0:38:17us as an independent group to come in.
0:38:20Uh, none of us are from Davidson County.
0:38:22uh we come and say this is what we saw,
0:38:24this is the facts, this is the data and
0:38:26present that along with with
0:38:28recommendations to you. And then we
0:38:30don't just leave you and say well here's
0:38:31a whole lot of recommendations. We put
0:38:33that in a a structure for you of a
0:38:36strategic plan. Now you may want to
0:38:39modify that. Uh most counties would, but
0:38:41we've given you something to start with.
0:38:42You don't have to start from zero. we've
0:38:44we've hit all of these key areas in a
0:38:46written strategic plan and that's part
0:38:48of your po report and it matches all the
0:38:51things that we we see above that. So we
0:38:54think that's important to provide it to
0:38:57you and provide to you in that manner.
0:39:00So, we want you to know all the pieces
0:39:01that we we have uh looked at with you.
0:39:04And I want to give a thank you again to
0:39:05your staff uh obviously EMS uh manager's
0:39:09office, but also uh communications, the
0:39:12911 group, the uh uh GIS group, and
0:39:15others that have contributed to
0:39:17providing this information for you.
0:39:20So, as we look at at your system and
0:39:22your service delivery system, obviously
0:39:24we we want to focus on where does it
0:39:26need to go in the future? Your policy
0:39:27makers, your decision makers, what do
0:39:29you need to know to to help you make
0:39:32more informed decisions moving forward.
0:39:34And so, as we we look at that, we we we
0:39:37see that you want to sustain your EMS
0:39:39services, but you do have a demand
0:39:42that's growing and a community that's
0:39:44growing. And if I had to put it into one
0:39:46phrase, I I I'm not a person to read a
0:39:49part of the report or read something to
0:39:51a group, but we worked at at putting
0:39:53this this summary together. And I think
0:39:56it it really captures what um Miss
0:39:58Crawford's going to go through with you
0:40:00here in just a moment, but in your
0:40:03executive summary, bear with me if you
0:40:04will. I'm just going to go through one
0:40:06short paragraph, but I think that it's
0:40:08important that you you hear that today.
0:40:11Davidson County EMS is currently a
0:40:13stable, dependable, and clinically
0:40:17capable EMS system.
0:40:19The review does not indicate a system
0:40:22that's in distress or a need for
0:40:25wholesale organizational change.
0:40:29However, several emerging pressures
0:40:32including increasing demand,
0:40:35workforce sustainability,
0:40:38ambulance availability,
0:40:40geographic coverage limitations,
0:40:43and aging facility infrastructure
0:40:46require proactive planning and continued
0:40:50county investment to preserve long-term
0:40:54service reliability.
0:40:56So, it's a paragraph, but I think it's
0:40:58got some important pieces. Our whole
0:41:00team worked on this and and everyone had
0:41:02a consensus. This this is what you need
0:41:05to hear. Uh that one paragraph. And and
0:41:07even though we'll give you additional
0:41:09data, we think that there's some nuggets
0:41:12there that are noteworthy and important
0:41:14for you to to know and to understand.
0:41:18So, we don't just look at one piece. We
0:41:21don't just look at the incidents. We
0:41:22don't just look at what your personnel
0:41:24said. We don't just look at what prov
0:41:25other providers. We put it all together
0:41:28and and try to bring those priorities to
0:41:30you. And this this shows that there's
0:41:32three different pieces. There's
0:41:34operational evidence, all the the CAD
0:41:36responses and the trends and the data
0:41:39data pieces which uh we all have to make
0:41:42decisions based on data today, right? So
0:41:44that's an important piece. Then we look
0:41:46at the system readiness. That's where
0:41:48we're looking at the modeling and the
0:41:50the GIS information and everything that
0:41:52we have have talked about uh there
0:41:53today. And we physically went to all of
0:41:56your facilities. So we went to every
0:41:57facility from a safety viewpoint. What's
0:42:00what's the operational needs? What's the
0:42:02safety needs? We we have helped to
0:42:04hopefully prioritize those needs for you
0:42:07as you look at capital. So, we looked at
0:42:09system readiness and then people, you
0:42:12know, no matter how many faces you have
0:42:14or how many um ambulances you have or
0:42:17where they're located, it takes people
0:42:19to do this work and people who care and
0:42:22people who are trained and capable and
0:42:24competent. And so, that's why we we
0:42:26really wanted to hear so much from your
0:42:28personnel and they were very, you know,
0:42:30responsive. So, this is not a single
0:42:32report card. It's it's pretty dynamic,
0:42:34but it's really based on these these
0:42:36three categories. and uh Miss Crawford's
0:42:39going to step through some of this here
0:42:40with you and then we'll come back and
0:42:42and answer your questions this evening
0:42:44as well.
0:42:45>> Thank you.
0:42:48[cough]
0:42:48>> Good evening. [clears throat] Thank you
0:42:49for the opportunity to come back. Um I
0:42:51enjoy doing the um the survey with the
0:42:55staff. That was critical to us getting
0:42:58the answers we needed. As Greg has
0:43:00emphasized, it is stable. It's
0:43:04dependable and it's clinically capable.
0:43:06Um, but your biggest asset are your
0:43:08people. Uh, they put their their lives
0:43:11on the line every day to get the job
0:43:13done and they are committed. Most of the
0:43:16staff reside in Davidson County and they
0:43:18are committed to giving their best and
0:43:21caring for the citizens or the visitors
0:43:22that come into Davidson County. So, as
0:43:24Greg said, it's not a it's not a system
0:43:26that's in distress, but I do think we
0:43:28need to plan for the future and prepare
0:43:30for what is to come. And that's some of
0:43:32the things that um that we found. Again,
0:43:35you have over 93,000 incidences
0:43:38um in Davidson County. Demand is growing
0:43:43and you're at a 7.1%
0:43:45growth. And I remember coming to
0:43:48Davidson County when I started with the
0:43:49office of EMS in 1992
0:43:54and it was nothing like the demand that
0:43:56Davidson County is seeing. You've got
0:43:57growth, you've got people moving into
0:43:59the county. It's huge and you need to
0:44:01prepare for that. Um the 90th percentile
0:44:05response is about 20 minutes.
0:44:09That's not the national average is
0:44:11somewhere between 11 and 15, but there
0:44:13are a lot of other considerations to
0:44:15take in in consideration. Um the high
0:44:18acuity response you're having the
0:44:20life-threatening incidences uh
0:44:22appropriately received faster response
0:44:24in the performance. So you have as I
0:44:26said you have a committed staff but you
0:44:28need to plan for the future and
0:44:30sustainability is huge. Um so again
0:44:34these are your numbers and this compares
0:44:37with your surrounding counties. I mean
0:44:39for scythe your um neighboring counties
0:44:41are going through the same systemic
0:44:43issues. So again
0:44:45>> and the 93,000 that's for three years
0:44:47right? So that's like 31,000 a year the
0:44:50call bait.
0:44:50>> Exactly.
0:44:52>> How many trucks? 12
0:44:53>> 12 trucks. 12 trucks.
0:44:55>> Have you added any additional? Are you
0:44:56still at 12? Yes.
0:45:00>> At night
0:45:00>> and 10 at night.
0:45:02>> So, it's it's impactful. I mean, that's
0:45:04a lot of
0:45:05>> 2500 plus calls a year per truck.
0:45:08>> Exactly. Crazy.
0:45:09>> With minimal staffing in this base, I
0:45:11remember this base only had two trucks
0:45:13and it still only had two years.
0:45:16>> Three during the day when we can staff
0:45:18>> and then you have two at night and
0:45:20you've had a problem staffing. So,
0:45:22again, those are some concerns. to
0:45:24follow a sustainable and dependable
0:45:26service. If you do not do something to
0:45:28plan for the future, you're going to be
0:45:29in crisis. So again, currency,
0:45:32concurrency is normal, resiliency is the
0:45:34issue. Um 85 84% of the time your calls
0:45:39overlap. So there are multiple
0:45:41incidences occurring at the same time.
0:45:4421% of that time demand exceeds the
0:45:46primary unit capability. So your units
0:45:49are not available. That's huge. And
0:45:51that's why I'm saying bringing on some
0:45:53peak time units would help during the
0:45:55highest call volume. Um that's some
0:45:58that's a lowhanging fruit, something you
0:46:00can do. Bringing in trucks or adding a
0:46:02couple of trucks throughout the county
0:46:04where your high call volume is and
0:46:06you've got those hours covered that
0:46:09would be most impactful and it's a
0:46:10lowhanging fruit. There's something you
0:46:12can do now.
0:46:13Uh I heard from the staff that they want
0:46:15it to be this agency in Davidson County
0:46:18EMS. They wanted to be a destination
0:46:21agency and years ago they were people
0:46:23were coming in could get your basic life
0:46:26support and your advanced life support
0:46:29level training in Davidson County. That
0:46:31has changed. People are going to your
0:46:32surrounding counties and it's not just
0:46:34because of the necessarily the pay. You
0:46:38know, people will move for $2 across
0:46:40county lines. But again, I think it's
0:46:42the commitment and this is what we heard
0:46:44throughout. We don't we're
0:46:46underappreciated, undervalued. So, it's
0:46:49not just the money. These people are
0:46:52giving up and sacrificing their time
0:46:53with family members, being around the
0:46:56clock, 12-hour shifts. It's it's it's
0:46:58huge. So, again, recommendations protect
0:47:01the outcomes that residents notice.
0:47:03Reliable help when calls overlap, a
0:47:06trained workforce ready to respond, and
0:47:08their willingness is there. Safe,
0:47:10functional facilities. We looked at base
0:47:13three. That's a huge. You've already
0:47:14planned to address that as a new base.
0:47:17um that's going to be impactful. People
0:47:19need to be comfortable where they are.
0:47:21So that was the one thing we heard
0:47:23continuously throughout the interviews
0:47:25with the shifts. Predictable phase
0:47:27investment and annual data using annual
0:47:30data forecasting and capital planning to
0:47:32avoid surprises. This is why you came to
0:47:34us and said let's do a study. Let's find
0:47:36out how we make Davidson County what it
0:47:38needs to be.
0:47:40[clears throat]
0:47:41Eight recommendations from one strategy
0:47:43and these are to be built upon the
0:47:44people and the leadership. Again, I
0:47:46talked about the workforce
0:47:48sustainability and initiative
0:47:50communications from this board as well
0:47:53as Alton and his staff. What we found
0:47:56continuously in our conversations were
0:47:59we don't feel like we're communicated.
0:48:00We don't feel like we're appreciated. We
0:48:02don't feel like we're valued. So, these
0:48:04are people that again are sacrificing
0:48:06and putting their lives on the line
0:48:07every day and they don't know how you as
0:48:10a board feels or how administration
0:48:12feels. So, these are things that we said
0:48:14this needs to be worked on. um
0:48:15leadership and development and
0:48:17succession. There is no leadership avail
0:48:19ability for the paramedics and EMTs that
0:48:22sacrifice their lives every day. They're
0:48:24not able to go to conferences um network
0:48:27with other agencies. We just had a North
0:48:30Carolina Association of EMS
0:48:31administrators conference. And it's not
0:48:32just for administrators. It is for
0:48:35clinicians that are out there working,
0:48:37but they were not afforded the
0:48:38opportunity to send two or three. And
0:48:40they need to go to that. They find out
0:48:42how other counties are doing. um you
0:48:45know how they compare what you're doing
0:48:46that may be helpful in Davidson County
0:48:48if you're in Fory or Wake or Guilford
0:48:51just those are things that again were
0:48:54repeatedly shared with us and we felt
0:48:56this needs to be in order to sustain
0:48:58your staff they need to be included and
0:49:01engaged operational I'm sorry
0:49:03>> you you moving really quick I've got a a
0:49:06question so absolutely you you've packed
0:49:08a lot in there you said that it wasn't
0:49:10salarybased but it's more about feeling
0:49:13like they they need to go to conferences
0:49:16and be supported in that effort and and
0:49:19uh so I I heard that um like is the fact
0:49:24that they can't go to conferences is
0:49:26that part of because we're low on
0:49:28numbers and we're trying to fill trucks
0:49:30or is that part that we don't have the
0:49:32funding uh to
0:49:34>> it's a little bit of both. Okay. uh
0:49:37because I mean that's an easy fix to go
0:49:39to a conference then you know to if it's
0:49:43the little things like that that you
0:49:45know but it it is nice to hear that u
0:49:49they're happy with their pay and you
0:49:51know we can always do better with pay
0:49:52everybody can but um I'm glad to hear
0:49:56that and we have been looking at studies
0:49:58to build EMS bases but I just wanted to
0:50:01to clarify that so the conferences the
0:50:04being able to get out and merge
0:50:07to to be a part of the associations and
0:50:09stuff like that. That was a big
0:50:11>> is critical. And Commissioner Elliot, it
0:50:13is not I mean I will not say it's not
0:50:15about pay. Everybody would like to have
0:50:17an increase, but it's work life balance
0:50:19for EMS. And I hear this consistently in
0:50:21every all 100 counties. We need to know
0:50:24that we're valued. We need to know we're
0:50:26appreciated. And most of all, we need to
0:50:28feel engaged. And that that that was a
0:50:30huge if I had to say the main thing out
0:50:34of all the interviews and we actually
0:50:35came over we did night um surveys we did
0:50:39and they could you know respond back
0:50:41informally if they didn't want to talk
0:50:43openly but every single shift out of all
0:50:45the four shifts were openly consistently
0:50:49that was the same thing communication is
0:50:52critical and engagement I don't feel
0:50:54like I am important or I'm valued
0:50:57>> and I hear this and It is about work
0:50:59life balance.
0:51:00>> I mean, we go home to our families. We
0:51:02spend holidays with our families. They
0:51:04don't.
0:51:04>> So, these are things that just kept
0:51:07continually being and and these are
0:51:09lowhanging fruit. Sending someone to a
0:51:11conference is something you can look at.
0:51:12You can send two or three. We have a
0:51:14conference in the fall. There's a
0:51:15conference in the summer. So, these are
0:51:18things that you can address over a time
0:51:20period to say, "Let's engage the staff."
0:51:22Um, the operational readiness,
0:51:23deployment, and coverage optimization.
0:51:26Um,
0:51:27again, we're going back to the peak hour
0:51:29and the geographic alignment there,
0:51:32future service delivery evaluation.
0:51:33Those are things that are huge. And
0:51:35again, uh, we did hear some complaints
0:51:37about the facilities, and I realize
0:51:39you've done some work to the facility
0:51:41across the street, and it it's a lot
0:51:43different than the way it used to look
0:51:44when I was inspecting ambulances. So,
0:51:46there has been some improvement, but
0:51:47there's room for a long-term master plan
0:51:49on how you're going to upgrade these
0:51:51facilities and the five-year
0:51:52sustainability plan.
0:51:54I think our last EMS base we built was
0:51:5712 years ago. Arcadia. Is it Arcadia?
0:52:00It's 2014. Yeah.
0:52:03>> Yeah. So,
0:52:03>> we just remodeled one in Thomasville.
0:52:05>> We did just remodel.
0:52:06>> We did.
0:52:07>> Wasn't it about brand new? I mean,
0:52:09>> yeah, brand new facility.
0:52:12>> Nine years, eight years ago.
0:52:17>> So, we need one in Silver Valley, too,
0:52:18as we discussed. I think we'll see here
0:52:20in a minute. I think you [clears throat]
0:52:22talked about Silver Valley, but um there
0:52:24wasn't staffing. Was staffing an issue
0:52:26before you were able to
0:52:27>> back down?
0:52:28>> Well, that had taken morale down, too.
0:52:30Commissioner Shell,
0:52:31>> could you give us some examples of what
0:52:34we could do to make him feel worthy?
0:52:38>> I will tell you what I tell every comm
0:52:40board of commissioners that I talk with.
0:52:41Get in the back of the truck. See what
0:52:43they do. Take time to ride with them.
0:52:45>> What are they saying that we don't do?
0:52:48>> Some of the things that you're they're
0:52:49saying. You don't communicate. You don't
0:52:51ever come and ride. They can have
0:52:52events. Um the other
0:52:54>> 23 department we supposed to all the
0:52:56department spend time with?
0:52:57>> No sir, but once a year and I asked them
0:53:00though I put the onus back on them. Do
0:53:01you do anything to invite your
0:53:03commissioners? Do you have an employee
0:53:05appreciation day where you can invite
0:53:06your commissioners and say this is what
0:53:08I do. This is
0:53:09>> you know a lot of times it goes both
0:53:10ways. We a lot of times it's on them.
0:53:13>> They need to do some reaching out too.
0:53:15if they got a problem and they they
0:53:16don't feel wanted or important, they
0:53:19need to reach out and tell us we don't
0:53:21feel wanted or important and you guys
0:53:23need to do this, but all we hear is the
0:53:26complaints at the end of the race and
0:53:28and that's not fair.
0:53:30>> True. So, you'd appreciate some
0:53:32information along the way. This is my
0:53:33issue. This is my concern.
0:53:35>> I'll go ride as long as I ain't got to
0:53:36look at no blood or nothing. Y'all be
0:53:39taking me to the hospital.
0:53:42>> You going to do that?
0:53:43>> No, man. I can't do it. I I didn't know
0:53:45we could ride. So, we can ride. I
0:53:47thought there was I thought with HIPPA
0:53:48and everything.
0:53:49>> I think years ago there was
0:53:52>> maybe I remember a few that rode.
0:53:54>> I know our insurance guy back there was
0:53:55going old guy.
0:53:57>> Well, we had Casey that road quite
0:53:59often.
0:53:59>> Yeah.
0:54:00>> Casey wrote some.
0:54:01>> Yeah.
0:54:01>> Yeah.
0:54:03>> But I think Alison what they're saying
0:54:04is they need to know and the staff has
0:54:07to be comfortable enough. They're not
0:54:08just going to approach your county
0:54:09commissioners. So they're going to come
0:54:11to you and if Alison has said he is
0:54:12engaging, he wants to ensure that the
0:54:15staff feel appreciated and he's
0:54:17communicating. So and Jason as well,
0:54:20correct?
0:54:21>> Well, you know, burnout has a lot to do
0:54:22with it, too. If you working, you know,
0:54:25it is a terrible tough job. Uh, all of
0:54:29our first responders are sheriff
0:54:30departments.
0:54:31>> Talk about law enforcement. Law
0:54:32enforcement sees a lot of tragedy,
0:54:35>> but these people pick up every one of
0:54:37them.
0:54:37>> Everybody. Everyone.
0:54:38>> Exactly. commission
0:54:39>> and so they have to carry it home with
0:54:40them. And if you suffer from PTSD,
0:54:43that's a prime example of the job that
0:54:45you could do to suffer that would cause
0:54:47you suffrage cuz they see it all.
0:54:50>> You know,
0:54:50>> they do see it all. Certainly, they do.
0:54:52>> As an ex law enforcement officer, I
0:54:54never remember a murder or anything else
0:54:56that I ever worked that ambulance was
0:54:58sitting there to pick up carry off the
0:55:01>> You call, we haul, we're always there.
0:55:03with the public safety network and
0:55:05>> we want we want them to feel
0:55:07[clears throat] want you know uh they've
0:55:10received the highest raises they've
0:55:11received in the history of Davidson
0:55:13County so we're trying to get that
0:55:15salary up there but the next county over
0:55:17just raises their salary and they charge
0:55:19a lot more tax rate it's a lot higher
0:55:21than ours [clears throat] it's a
0:55:23difficult situation trying to figure out
0:55:25how to how to do what you need to do
0:55:28>> understood
0:55:28>> but we need more communication coming
0:55:30from them too not just a one-sided
0:55:34I agree with you.
0:55:35>> I agree. Go Alison. Okay. Um I'll touch
0:55:40a little bit on this and then I'll move
0:55:41on. Workforce sustainability. Again,
0:55:43[clears throat] we anticipated with CO
0:55:45that we'd have a 30% shortfall in people
0:55:48retaining people and workforce
0:55:51engagement. Uh so across the state
0:55:53that's being looked at, but again
0:55:55they're huge levels in recruiting people
0:55:57to come into EMS. Work life balance
0:55:59again pay is second. um retention and
0:56:03staffing levels. I got a question for
0:56:05you because seeing how you've done it
0:56:08over the entire state um and I'm not
0:56:12saying that this is what I want to do
0:56:14but I know on the eastern part of the
0:56:17state they were running through some of
0:56:19the same problems and um and because the
0:56:23county could not compete with what the
0:56:26the head hunters at the hospital were
0:56:28doing.
0:56:29>> Yeah. the hospital took over the EMS
0:56:32service and the hospital is actually
0:56:34running the county EMS services and
0:56:37having to pay the uh for the trucks and
0:56:41everything like that. Do you have any
0:56:43information on that? Like how did that
0:56:45happen? How did it take over? Was it
0:56:46something that started like this and
0:56:48then it just ballooned or
0:56:50>> I think you're seeing that across uh the
0:56:52state of North Carolina and other
0:56:53states. Hospitals are we're competing
0:56:55for the same dollars. What? And that's
0:56:56the first time since co it's the first
0:56:59time in the history of local governments
0:57:01that now the local government is in
0:57:04direct competition with the private
0:57:05sector and Baptist Hospital has a whole
0:57:08lot bigger checkbook than Davidson
0:57:10County does
0:57:11>> and their lobbyists are
0:57:12>> and they do and it's almost impossible
0:57:15to compete with somebody like that when
0:57:17they're pulling in. And here's the sad
0:57:19thing about it. In the back of that, in
0:57:21the back of that truck, you have a
0:57:24triage emergency nurse.
0:57:26>> Yes.
0:57:27>> And they deserve every bit of money they
0:57:28can get because I don't want to go low
0:57:31be it if I have a heart attack. Okay.
0:57:32>> Right.
0:57:33>> You know what I'm saying? So, but it
0:57:35it's a hard balance to
0:57:37>> it is a hard balance and I will tell you
0:57:39um from the state perspective and the
0:57:41association as a whole looking at this,
0:57:43we're trying to work with the
0:57:44association of county commissioners to
0:57:46get them engaged. were meeting with your
0:57:47hospital, your healthcare alliance. One
0:57:50of the um who's over the um healthcare
0:57:52alliance now used to be the hospital
0:57:54association is a former uh legislator.
0:57:57>> Okay.
0:57:57>> So, the first thing I've done is called
0:57:59him. I said, "Remember when you helped
0:58:00me get this for the state of North
0:58:01Carolina? We need to sit down to the
0:58:03table and talk about how we come
0:58:04together and instead of competing and
0:58:06working in silos, we work together to
0:58:08divide the funding." That would be the
0:58:10biggest help that any county could get,
0:58:13you know, and you know, anytime money
0:58:15you can get money, it helps morale. But,
0:58:18uh, when you're in direct competition
0:58:20and not just normal private sector
0:58:22companies, these are join like they have
0:58:26>> bigockets. Yeah, big pockets.
0:58:27>> They do. I will tell you that um, as you
0:58:30know, Medicaid Medicare Medicaid was
0:58:33taken over by the privates when we went
0:58:34to managed care in North Carolina. Well,
0:58:37we are finally to the point and I
0:58:39retired in 2015. We are to the point
0:58:41that America Healthy Blue is willing to
0:58:44sit down to the table.
0:58:45>> Oh, wow.
0:58:45>> And that has been I mean I've been
0:58:47retired 10 years. We started this and
0:58:49they still I mean because they got big
0:58:51pockets and they don't support they
0:58:53don't want to pay for community pair
0:58:54medicine treatment in place because they
0:58:57realize it's going to hit their pockets.
0:58:58Yeah.
0:58:58>> But again, EMS only gets reimbured when
0:59:01they transport. That is antiquated. We
0:59:04have got to change that mindset. But it
0:59:06is it is a a big pocket to fill. Let's
0:59:09just say it's a hard job, but we are at
0:59:11least at the point we're having
0:59:12conversations and that's huge.
0:59:14>> Yes.
0:59:15>> Yeah. Thank you.
0:59:16>> Absolutely. Um any questions so far? I
0:59:19don't I want to make sure you're
0:59:20understanding and there no issues.
0:59:23Anything else you want to add? You're
0:59:24standing here. Okay. Um
0:59:28I can't get my slide to
0:59:29>> I I do have one more. Yes, ma'am.
0:59:31Another thing I think you pointed was u
0:59:34a need for a career progression.
0:59:37>> Yes. Succession.
0:59:38>> A su succession. And um you know that
0:59:41just evidently that just needs to be
0:59:44done. You know all all the other ones
0:59:47seem to have you know take more courses
0:59:51you know and you move up etc. So I, you
0:59:55know, I think that's a no-brainer that
0:59:57definitely needs to be
0:59:59>> and the like I said the association
1:00:00there different conferences they can go
1:00:02to to get leadership courses. The
1:00:05community college we're working with
1:00:06them to add those courses. So there is
1:00:08but overall EMS as a whole has not done
1:00:11a very good job of planning for that. So
1:00:13that's no reflect on Alton or any other
1:00:16system. It's just we need to address
1:00:17that. It needs to be looked at. So,
1:00:19right now, if we have an EMT, we don't
1:00:21have a system set up like uh building
1:00:23inspections to where if they go get a
1:00:25class, they get a bump. That's terrible.
1:00:27>> Well, if they get another certification
1:00:29to go to,
1:00:30>> well, then why would they even want to
1:00:31try to get their paramedic if they're
1:00:33not going to get paid for?
1:00:34>> They'll get a raise. They'll get a pay
1:00:36raise every time they go to a different
1:00:37certification level. But we don't have
1:00:39anything for individual type classes in
1:00:42between, if that makes any sense.
1:00:44>> Yeah. So,
1:00:45>> certifications, they do get a pay. So
1:00:48you have EMT, advanced EMT, and then you
1:00:51have P. So there's a bump for each one
1:00:53of those certifications.
1:00:54>> Okay. Allison, how do you uh does the
1:00:58county reimburse any of that education?
1:01:01Is that something that you've talked
1:01:03about or discussed that there's an
1:01:05opportunity to reimburse them if they
1:01:06enroll in? I know they get fee, but it
1:01:08only reimburses about half. So, um,
1:01:12we've got about seven folks in paramedic
1:01:14school now that will be out between now
1:01:17and the end of the year is Amanda
1:01:20October.
1:01:21>> And so, one of the things that I I left
1:01:23out to tell you is maybe we can offer
1:01:26some reimbursement for those folks when
1:01:28they graduate from paramedic school.
1:01:30They bring us a certificate, they're
1:01:32going to be a paramedic for us, we can
1:01:33rever we can reimburse their fees. What
1:01:36keeps them from getting their
1:01:37certification then moving on to another
1:01:40county or or the hospital?
1:01:41>> We'd have to do it like the teachers
1:01:43with a two-year agreement or something.
1:01:44You stay with us for this long and we'll
1:01:46pay for that and then, you know, fast
1:01:49track. But I man, I I think we ought to
1:01:51be paying for training. I mean, that
1:01:54that's terrible to make somebody pay for
1:01:56their own training. We're benefiting for
1:01:58it. Pay for their training.
1:02:01that I mean that that utilizes you've
1:02:03got somebody there that could be
1:02:05probably one of the smartest paramedics
1:02:07or future paramedics in the entire state
1:02:09and we'll lose them because they're
1:02:11going somewhere else cuz they're having
1:02:12to pay for everything here.
1:02:14[clears throat]
1:02:15>> What does that cost?
1:02:18>> On average it was about I think it was
1:02:19about $1,500 what we come up for for a
1:02:22parabatic program on average. Some of
1:02:25them are going to different schools so
1:02:26it may vary between one and another but
1:02:28it's on the average is about 1,500
1:02:30bucks. That's nothing for a county of
1:02:32this size. That's Yeah.
1:02:37>> Well, it it it it can become a problem
1:02:41if everybody has that same opportunity
1:02:44in all the departments to, you know,
1:02:47then it can become something that's
1:02:48difficult to do. I think we're in a
1:02:50unique situation here with our first
1:02:52responders and uh you know they they
1:02:56have a hard job and we're in an active
1:02:59fight to try to keep people loyal to us.
1:03:02Well, why are they going to be loyal to
1:03:03us if we're not loyal to them?
1:03:05>> So,
1:03:07yeah,
1:03:07>> they just need to sign a contract for
1:03:10>> Yeah, that's it. Yeah.
1:03:14>> Just just the lead. That's great.
1:03:18>> Colleges do it. Other agencies do it.
1:03:22>> I just want to make sure we ain't
1:03:23training staff.
1:03:24>> That would benefit us even more because
1:03:26we're, you know, guaranteed to have
1:03:28them.
1:03:28>> Yeah. You've got them.
1:03:29>> Yeah.
1:03:30>> Even if it's a short period of time.
1:03:33>> Did my battery go out?
1:03:37>> Okay. I went I think I went the wrong
1:03:40way.
1:03:41the re. Yeah,
1:03:42>> I can't see none of it any great.
1:03:44>> Again, communication and leadership.
1:03:47Yeah,
1:03:47>> you can run it. You can operate it.
1:03:48Okay,
1:03:50>> um again, this just reemphasizes some of
1:03:52the things that are important and the
1:03:54fact that communication and leadership
1:03:55[clears throat] is is key to retaining
1:03:59and recruiting people. Um again, I will
1:04:02tell you something else that's very
1:04:03important. I don't know where it is in
1:04:05this presentation, but social media. If
1:04:07I did not I heard that at every shift.
1:04:09We are not allowed to have show social
1:04:11media. We don't have a social media
1:04:13page. Other counties around this area
1:04:17across the state have a social media.
1:04:19They have a voice. I understand that
1:04:21some of it was because of the bad
1:04:22publicity. But just as much as you can
1:04:25receive bad publicity, you can receive
1:04:28good publicity and they can showcase
1:04:29what they do. Because I know you've had
1:04:31accidents out here on 85. To be able to
1:04:33show pictures, this is what we did. We
1:04:35saved these lives. That's a simple
1:04:37that's a lowhanging fruit. I mean to
1:04:39allow
1:04:42we we not letting them have social
1:04:43media.
1:04:44>> You do not have
1:04:45>> one time but it was
1:04:46>> like personal social media.
1:04:47>> No, not personal.
1:04:48>> They're just socialism. I was about to
1:04:50say
1:04:50>> for the for the agency.
1:04:52>> Okay.
1:04:53>> Well, I like that to get out and make
1:04:56>> time. But we we discontinued it for a
1:04:58while.
1:04:59>> Okay.
1:04:59>> Had to.
1:05:00>> Yeah.
1:05:01>> And that wasn't a choice of the
1:05:02commissioners at that point either. It
1:05:04was a bad choices by individuals.
1:05:07>> Understood.
1:05:09But that is something
1:05:10>> you got to just be honest about it. You
1:05:11know, if they and you if you're
1:05:15monitoring a social media page, you got
1:05:17to monitor. You can't let people put on
1:05:20lies on there or or put scenes of dead
1:05:23bodies and the family doing any of that.
1:05:26>> Yeah. The family hadn't even been
1:05:27notified. But yeah, but that's a
1:05:28possibility.
1:05:29>> Different. you got somebody doing that
1:05:31don't have the scrut to to be
1:05:33>> it got to be monitored and it has to be
1:05:36some
1:05:38feedback if they do and there has to be
1:05:40some penalty if they listen because
1:05:42that's confidentiality that's HIPPA
1:05:44>> we've talked about that for the last 5
1:05:46years uh about having a public
1:05:49information officer that we we
1:05:51drastically need one of them for the
1:05:53board because people don't know half the
1:05:55things that we do and what's going on in
1:05:58the departments And that's one thing
1:06:01that would be beneficial.
1:06:02>> Well, that's true. People make
1:06:04assumptions about what we do.
1:06:06>> True.
1:06:06>> And and then they they delete things
1:06:10that they want to delete without
1:06:12recognizing that we're doing certain
1:06:14things. And it's on it's in public,
1:06:16>> you know, our Facebook page on our
1:06:19website, but they don't bother.
1:06:21>> Our our heroes deserve to be cheered on
1:06:24and and thanked and appreciated and, you
1:06:27know, so I I can see that.
1:06:30Thank you.
1:06:31>> Okay.
1:06:32>> I like that. I like that. Sorry about
1:06:34that.
1:06:35>> I think they will be very receptive and
1:06:37appreciative of that little minor piece
1:06:39because it was in every shift that they
1:06:42were like, "We can't we can't show what
1:06:44we do. How do people know what we do and
1:06:47how we save lives in Davidson County?"
1:06:48So, thank you for that. Uh, again,
1:06:50optimized deployment before expanding
1:06:52this system. I talked about this. I hit
1:06:54on your response time and the travel
1:06:56time and where we need to be. Um, and I
1:06:59think you're addressing that. The peak
1:07:01hour ambulance availability, Alison, you
1:07:03talked about that. You're going to
1:07:04address that. If the commissioners
1:07:06approved that, so there's just things
1:07:07that you can do that will improve the
1:07:09quality and even bringing on a BLS level
1:07:13service, someone to help you. And I
1:07:15think Commissioner Shell, you talked
1:07:16about this when we presented that you
1:07:18needed some help. These, they're running
1:07:20ALS calls. They can't do all your
1:07:22conlescent calls. They've got to have
1:07:23some backup.
1:07:24>> Yeah.
1:07:25>> So, okay.
1:07:28uh communication and leadership
1:07:29strengthen. You went backwards.
1:07:31>> I went the wrong way.
1:07:32>> You went the wrong way.
1:07:33>> You mentioned earlier 90,000 calls. How
1:07:35many of those are BLS?
1:07:38>> Do you remember there's 93,000?
1:07:41>> I think it was 93,000. But what how many
1:07:43were
1:07:43>> three years?
1:07:48>> Do you remember?
1:07:50>> We can get that information. We didn't
1:07:51we didn't break it out that way. Um I've
1:07:54touched on this. I don't want to be
1:07:55redundant, but base three again needs a
1:07:57clear facility decision. You've already
1:07:59looked at that and that's being
1:08:00addressed. Correct. We
1:08:01>> talked about that. We've we've got
1:08:06we talked to Brian, the engineer. I
1:08:08think the the repairs to that current
1:08:10facility would be close to half a
1:08:12million. And I think he said he could
1:08:14put us in a new piece, new place for
1:08:16about 650. And we own property at
1:08:19Enterprise Road next to the boxite,
1:08:23which would actually me on my times
1:08:24because it would move south about two
1:08:27miles would help me pick up a little bit
1:08:29of dead area space so to speak.
1:08:31>> How much area we've already own?
1:08:34>> Talking about the area we already own
1:08:37on Enterprise Road. So you can either
1:08:39>> you know we could look at putting half
1:08:41[clears throat] a million in a facility
1:08:42we don't own or we could put 650 into a
1:08:46facility that we do own that's brand
1:08:48new.
1:08:49>> It's about a no-brainer.
1:08:50>> Be a good location.
1:08:52And that that address your call volume
1:08:53as well.
1:08:55>> It was it was helpful by call volume.
1:08:57>> That's even another positive.
1:08:58>> Okay.
1:08:59>> So, how long has this been on our radar?
1:09:01This is the first I heard about this.
1:09:04So, has this been brought up to the
1:09:06facilities committee or anything?
1:09:09>> They've had to tail stuffed in the
1:09:10windows since 2014. I know.
1:09:13>> I know. I went up.
1:09:15>> They got tape [clears throat] over the
1:09:16windows that I wasn't aware of when I
1:09:18went out and visited. So, but we need to
1:09:20take care of
1:09:22Yeah. And in addition to adding another
1:09:24facility, I know you said Arcadia was
1:09:25your last one, bringing all your
1:09:27facilities up to standard, ADA
1:09:29compliant, those issues, emergency
1:09:31lighting, overhead door safety, bay
1:09:33flooring, there are a lot of things that
1:09:35you can do that are not going to be a
1:09:36significant financial impact. So again,
1:09:39these were just some of the things that
1:09:41our team looked at. Okay. Uh and then
1:09:44again, I said everything builds upon
1:09:46each other. A five-year plan provides
1:09:48early warning. Uh again, you're
1:09:51measuring your workload, you're
1:09:52forecasting, you're prioritizing, and
1:09:53you're making adjustments. And that's
1:09:55critical to sustaining your service.
1:09:57Again, the service is not in crisis. I
1:10:00want to reemphasize that, but I think
1:10:02you need to make plans to make sure it
1:10:04doesn't become a crisis. Okay.
1:10:07>> Did you do a breakdown of the individual
1:10:10uh ambulance basis or how many calls
1:10:13that 93,000 as it was?
1:10:16>> We did not. We I don't know if your CAD
1:10:18system could give us that data. That's
1:10:20something we can look into if you would
1:10:22like us to, but we did not break it down
1:10:24by
1:10:24>> B. Probably going to be your highest
1:10:25volume. But I just wonder how how far
1:10:28off Midway is.
1:10:30>> You you track that, Nicole. That you do.
1:10:33We can get that from Nicole.
1:10:34>> Okay. I thought sure y'all would have
1:10:36had that included in this report.
1:10:39>> Y'all know
1:10:39>> that show us the weak point where we
1:10:41need to base the most. You know,
1:10:43>> well, it does show where we need to base
1:10:44the most.
1:10:45It's probably Silver Valley
1:10:47>> distance wise.
1:10:48>> Yeah,
1:10:49>> because it's so far away from the other
1:10:51base district
1:10:51>> for the call volume too.
1:10:53>> The call volume would not be that high.
1:10:57I think when we looked at it before it
1:10:59was roughly maybe 1,500 to 2,000 calls a
1:11:03year in that area that it that that it
1:11:05could absorb because it would pick up
1:11:07some of the Thomasville area. It would
1:11:09pick up some of Lexington's area and it
1:11:10would pick up some of Vent as well.
1:11:12>> Okay.
1:11:14Did you also Alton talk about if you
1:11:17were added the two peak times you would
1:11:18add maybe a potential backup in Silver
1:11:21Valley at a peak time unit?
1:11:23>> Talk about doing another, you know,
1:11:25bring somebody in to do BLS.
1:11:26>> Yeah.
1:11:27>> To help support us. We could we could
1:11:29submit bids to get one in Lexon and one
1:11:31in Thomasville during this peak time
1:11:33like 9 or 10 a.m. to 9 or 10 p.m.
1:11:36>> But we might could put an addendum on
1:11:38there to see if they would be willing to
1:11:39to bid out until we can build a base in
1:11:42Silver Valley. They might could provide
1:11:43us at least with a BLS truck in Zor
1:11:45Valley to cover some of that area as an
1:11:48option if we want to do that.
1:11:51>> Would it be fair to say BLS is 25% of
1:11:54our volume?
1:11:56>> Probably.
1:11:57>> I would say about 21%. Yeah.
1:11:59>> About 25,000 calls a year.
1:12:01>> Well, it's 30,000 calls a year. So it's
1:12:05probably about between 10 and 15,000
1:12:08calls a year or about 10 is BLS stuff
1:12:11that lower tier not the high QE stuff.
1:12:14Got that right. So it would provide a
1:12:16good amount of relief for us. Now could
1:12:18they catch all of them tonsil? Probably
1:12:21not. you know, your outline bases is
1:12:23going to still pick up some of that, but
1:12:25most of the steam is here in the main
1:12:26bases. And, you know, then you've got
1:12:29you've got trucks coming in from the
1:12:31outside to pick up the calls, which is
1:12:34kind of leaving those areas open. They
1:12:36the supervisors will move the trucks
1:12:38around trying to play like a chess game
1:12:41to keep everything covered equally. But
1:12:44with those BLS trucks, we would have
1:12:46less of that hopefully.
1:12:49>> So, it would definitely help. What did
1:12:50they what did they do? Staging
1:12:53>> when when you when they're trying to
1:12:54cover an area to go somewhere
1:12:58>> between two areas so they can pick up
1:13:00the same ample distance to get wherever
1:13:02they need to go.
1:13:03>> So, I mean, if if you're looking at that
1:13:0596,000 and that's a three-year period,
1:13:09that's 32,000 calls. If 10 to 15,000 are
1:13:13the under, that's more than 21%.
1:13:17>> Yeah.
1:13:20Yeah,
1:13:21>> but I mean still we still need help, you
1:13:23know. Definitely
1:13:25>> they're just they're getting more out.
1:13:27>> It is hard.
1:13:28>> They're doing all they can. Staffing
1:13:30needs when we have to sh we have to shut
1:13:32down, you know, a truck here and there.
1:13:33>> Yeah.
1:13:34>> They're picking up double time, so to
1:13:36speak.
1:13:36>> And we still have to help other
1:13:38counties, too, when they're down.
1:13:40>> That's right. It's kind of a mutual
1:13:42mutual aid agreement.
1:13:43>> We're running ALS to go do a BLS. Yes.
1:13:48>> Mhm.
1:13:48>> So there's a there's a waste of
1:13:50resources.
1:13:51>> It is a waste of resources.
1:13:52>> So yes,
1:13:53>> but you want to make sure everyone is
1:13:55covered. So bringing on Paula does your
1:13:58Triad does your convolescent.
1:14:00>> She does our convolescent and so does
1:14:01Providence
1:14:02>> and Providence. So you have two
1:14:03providers right now, but you're needing
1:14:05you're still not covering.
1:14:06>> We need someone to help back up the 91
1:14:0891 system,
1:14:09>> the 911 BLS stuff. And those can be run
1:14:11out of like a regular truck set up for
1:14:14stuff
1:14:15>> like
1:14:15>> why don't we on our own and you know run
1:14:19those
1:14:20>> where we have to hire on more staff in
1:14:22>> I mean I got that but it'd be a whole
1:14:24lot easier to control what we have and
1:14:26then you know build out like that
1:14:28>> like P and Proidence most of the stuff
1:14:31they do is scheduled doctor's offices
1:14:35those sort of things these would do the
1:14:38911 calls that come in that may be a
1:14:40lesser
1:14:40call that that's considered BLS and
1:14:43they'd be able to respond to that.
1:14:44>> If we had some of those and we could
1:14:45partner with some of these fire
1:14:47departments and house like a truck kind
1:14:50of close by and then you know I mean I'm
1:14:53just thinking outside the box until we
1:14:54could build some infrastructure that we
1:14:57own. Maybe that would be something and
1:15:00uh you know obviously utilize our rescue
1:15:03squads a little more.
1:15:06So I don't know.
1:15:09Commissioner Elliot, I think I remember
1:15:11I recall. Did you not used to use your
1:15:13rescue squads? Are they are they phasing
1:15:14out?
1:15:15>> Neither one of them are a transport
1:15:17agency at the moment.
1:15:18>> All right. Because you had several.
1:15:20>> But I I see what you're saying about
1:15:22starting your own. A lot of larger
1:15:24systems are considering that. Um but you
1:15:27got to have something in the meantime
1:15:29until you can get recruitment.
1:15:31>> We talking about planning for the
1:15:32future, right?
1:15:33>> Absolutely. Long-term planning.
1:15:35>> We got to talk about it now.
1:15:36>> Got to talk about it now.
1:15:37>> That's what the problem is. We looked at
1:15:38a couple providers over the past couple
1:15:40years and they didn't have any help to
1:15:43help us.
1:15:43>> They were struggling as well,
1:15:45>> right?
1:15:45>> And I think that's the problem.
1:15:47>> Yeah. And the competition and we talked
1:15:48about this earlier about mobile
1:15:50integrated healthcare. Your hospitals
1:15:51taking your staff. Again, these are all
1:15:53things that are being working on from a
1:15:55federal level as well as a state level,
1:15:57but we are all competing
1:15:58>> and it's everybody. Everybody's facing
1:16:00the same stuff.
1:16:02>> You're not It's not unique to Davidson
1:16:03County.
1:16:04>> Okay.
1:16:05>> Okay. Um
1:16:08Yeah, you change go to the next one
1:16:09because we've talked about mobile
1:16:10integrate. So short-term stabilizing
1:16:13your core right now, what you have in
1:16:14place then planning to to do these
1:16:17things to improve the system. Okay,
1:16:22>> Madam Chair, where I would recommend at
1:16:25this point is to our consultant and
1:16:29Alton, excuse me, Alton, I can't give
1:16:32you that.
1:16:34Formulate a plan with all the weaknesses
1:16:36and what their suggestion for remedy
1:16:38would be. Amen.
1:16:39>> And then let's take a look at
1:16:41>> I agree.
1:16:42>> Yeah,
1:16:42>> I agree.
1:16:44And I I want those numbers
1:16:46>> of what you said.
1:16:49>> I want those numbers,
1:16:51you know,
1:16:52>> and where the high parts are. I'd like
1:16:54to know just to see.
1:16:56>> Yeah.
1:16:57>> You know, you
1:16:59>> But I think then we have a format as to
1:17:02what to look at, what to consider, and
1:17:05>> then you can bring us back real action
1:17:08bullet points.
1:17:10>> Yeah.
1:17:10>> But what's your thoughts on that now?
1:17:16I would let I would like to, you know,
1:17:19to ask us to look at the training a
1:17:22little harder on these folks and then if
1:17:24we could get that
1:17:25>> recommendation that could be one of the
1:17:26recommendations.
1:17:27>> We could do that with that two-year
1:17:28attached to it or something that we need
1:17:30that
1:17:31>> a little shot in the arm. Yeah. Yeah.
1:17:35>> Yeah. Just lay it out.
1:17:36>> But you've heard the concerns and we're
1:17:38happy to
1:17:38>> Yes. condense that into something that's
1:17:40a task list
1:17:41>> that would be beneficial.
1:17:42>> Yeah.
1:17:43>> So, we've talked about the phase
1:17:44implementation without losing your
1:17:46momentum, what you got going now, and
1:17:47not losing your people, trying to do the
1:17:49lowhanging fruit piece. And then, uh,
1:17:52again, near term things is workforce
1:17:55sustainability. You're talking about
1:17:56adding another base. You're talking
1:17:58about engaging your staff and sending
1:17:59them to training. And then maybe uh
1:18:02midterm look at a five-year
1:18:04sustainability plan. Um, EMS facilities
1:18:07master plan. all the things that we've
1:18:08covered, but that could be your
1:18:09five-year strategic plan. This is what
1:18:11we're going to do in EMS for public
1:18:12safety.
1:18:13>> And did I hear you correctly? Like
1:18:14internally, not just not just the pay
1:18:17per the the stuff like this, but an
1:18:19internal how do I get the sergeant, how
1:18:22do I get this lieutenant, like we need a
1:18:24legit structure of somebody that's been
1:18:27here that's not always staying right
1:18:29here, but they have a way to grow up in
1:18:31the county that gives them a reason to
1:18:33stay here. We need that.
1:18:35>> Exactly. and Alson if if you're you know
1:18:37for instance and this were some of the
1:18:38things we heard
1:18:39>> if Alson's going to be retiring what's
1:18:41the succession plan for him who's who's
1:18:43going to be next and that's something
1:18:45and I say EMS overall we don't do a good
1:18:47job of planning for that it's been
1:18:49something we've talked about over the
1:18:50years but we don't plan for it so that's
1:18:52something and Alton knows that so he
1:18:54knows he's got to inform his staff as to
1:18:57this is when I'm going to retire I'm
1:18:58considering this this is you know you're
1:19:01all have an opportunity to
1:19:03>> working a lot now
1:19:05We got all officers staff filling out
1:19:07basically what their responsibilities
1:19:10are and what they're doing so each other
1:19:11can learn these things and so we'll be
1:19:14integrated so everybody
1:19:16>> cross train and stuff already started
1:19:17some of this stuff in the last couple of
1:19:20months or so.
1:19:21>> Okay. Yeah. I'd like to see a report on
1:19:23it and then hear back from everybody
1:19:25that's involved kind of like what what
1:19:27they feel cuz I want them all to be like
1:19:30locked in with that. And I think that's
1:19:32the only way communication from the top
1:19:34down. Everybody's on the same page.
1:19:37Nobody's surprised by anything. That
1:19:39that's that's the way you do it, man.
1:19:41>> And Commissioner Elliot, I would say
1:19:42this. The staff wanted to know you doing
1:19:44this study. You've taken time. We've
1:19:46committed our time to be upfront and
1:19:48honest with you. What's the feedback?
1:19:50Are we going to get a copy of this
1:19:51report? I have asked that question. I
1:19:54got calls the other day. Are we going to
1:19:56get the report? When are you presenting
1:19:57it to the commissioners?
1:19:58>> What commissioner said Shell said is you
1:20:00get the bullet points together. What are
1:20:02the recommendations and then we come
1:20:04back here and hash it out and make sure
1:20:07that these things are corrected
1:20:09>> and uh
1:20:09>> even if it's something, you know, we
1:20:11wouldn't like.
1:20:12>> That's right.
1:20:12>> His own.
1:20:13>> Yeah.
1:20:14>> Amen.
1:20:15>> Awesome. Okay. Are there any other
1:20:17questions? Uh because we we're closing.
1:20:20Greg, I'll give you the opportunity to
1:20:21come [clears throat] back and see if
1:20:22there's anything you want to share.
1:20:23>> Y'all asked some really good questions
1:20:25and I appreciate your engagement with
1:20:26it. Just kind of looking back, you've
1:20:29got a strong system, but there's
1:20:30opportunities for improvement. So does
1:20:32any organization. Your workforce
1:20:34sustainability critical. You've got to
1:20:36keep the people you have, you got to
1:20:37develop them. You know, you were talking
1:20:39a little earlier about the the
1:20:41hospitals. Go to the emergency room
1:20:43tonight and look who's working in the
1:20:46hospital. Uh, pre-COVID, you didn't see
1:20:48EMTs working in the hospital, but you do
1:20:50today. You'll see them with tags and
1:20:52IDs. So, the hospital is is hiring
1:20:54people there. Your your workforce,
1:20:57establishing your workforce, sustaining
1:20:58your workforce, really important these
1:21:00days. The dynamics have changed in the
1:21:03last few years, making the most of the
1:21:05of the deployment that you have. Uh,
1:21:08those peak time units. We in in the
1:21:10different counties we work with, that is
1:21:12a strategy to help. and and as we talked
1:21:15about just moment ago, that might be
1:21:16BLS, but it's a strategy to help. And uh
1:21:20uh many counties are looking at that
1:21:22same piece. And then uh your people want
1:21:25to feel uh respected, appreciated when
1:21:28their facility is not
1:21:32like it should be and uh maybe not, you
1:21:34know, even have some safety concerns and
1:21:36issues, fix those things. And so we we
1:21:38out outline that obviously for base
1:21:40three, but there's others as well. it
1:21:42just the need to look at that
1:21:43comprehensively and and over time
1:21:46obviously very very important. So, you
1:21:48know, this is just a quick review of
1:21:49those those three main pieces. So, um
1:21:52Miss Crawford, I know of no one that
1:21:54knows more about the EMS systems in all
1:21:56100 counties than her. So, if you have
1:21:58questions, we'll be glad to answer
1:21:59those. Uh we'll get back to you on some
1:22:02of the particulars on your question
1:22:04about the the call volume and the
1:22:06levels. I'll have to look at that a
1:22:07little bit further. Um, but we'll we'll
1:22:10reply back to the manager's office on
1:22:12that.
1:22:13>> And just for clarification, I want to
1:22:14say for the folks just listening at home
1:22:16and the folks that are here there, we
1:22:18have had like real intimate
1:22:22conversations with the fire chief and
1:22:24the fire department at base 3 about
1:22:26trying to get that facility fixed. It's
1:22:28one that we do not own. We're kind of
1:22:30stuck right now having to to be in there
1:22:33because it's been there for golly how
1:22:36many years out like forever, right? So,
1:22:39and and it is subpar conditions and we
1:22:42we yeah, we've addressed that with the
1:22:45fire chief asked to try to get some of
1:22:47those conditions fixed. It's a part of
1:22:50how much money do we want to put in a
1:22:51facility that's not ours. And uh I think
1:22:55you know your recommendation for the
1:22:56amount of money we're going to have to
1:22:57put in either one, we might as well own
1:22:59the facility if we're going to do it and
1:23:01then we have control over it. So I
1:23:04appreciate it.
1:23:06>> There's two things. One thing I didn't
1:23:07hear in the report tonight that is very
1:23:10important for us as a county is the Kath
1:23:12lab. We don't have a cath lab in this
1:23:14county and our ambulances are going out
1:23:17of the county. That's true. where where
1:23:19you heard that and I'll let Mr. Crawford
1:23:21speak to it, but where you heard that is
1:23:22about when multiple calls happen at
1:23:24[clears throat] the same time and is
1:23:25their reliability for that next unit.
1:23:28Well, if they're at cone or they're at
1:23:30Baptist, then they're they're out of
1:23:31position. That that's part of the as
1:23:34your call volume gets higher and they're
1:23:36not then they're they're traveling
1:23:38because you don't have that.
1:23:39>> I understand every minute of it. That's
1:23:41that's a that's a that's a big issue.
1:23:45>> And I have
1:23:46>> we've been discussing this for a while.
1:23:48>> So in your numbers, if if her
1:23:51information will get it for you, how
1:23:53many transports do we have ALS out of
1:23:56the county?
1:23:58That would be information that's very
1:24:00important for us because this is one of
1:24:03the reasons we don't have enough
1:24:04ambulances because they out of the
1:24:06county. Okay.
1:24:07>> A lot of them are ALS that go out of the
1:24:08county because they're either strokes
1:24:11there are people having heart attacks or
1:24:14there's people that have some sort of
1:24:15trauma and they all need that
1:24:16specialized care which none of which is
1:24:19provided here in Davidson County. So
1:24:21again, and the term of the call. So I
1:24:24mean, how long our trucks is out of or
1:24:27on a call compared I'd like to see that
1:24:29compared to other
1:24:31>> think about that.
1:24:32>> I'm sorry.
1:24:33>> Tim has some of those compared
1:24:36them to like Foresight and Guilford
1:24:38County. The term, the length of the
1:24:40call.
1:24:41>> We've got them compared to the other
1:24:43>> light counties. They they stay. So we've
1:24:46got
1:24:46>> So we've got
1:24:47>> See, I don't know that I want light
1:24:48counties. I want counties that's got
1:24:50cath labs and hospitals in a
1:24:52>> that's thing like counties your call
1:24:54volume your size and how far they are
1:24:56from a cath lab. So
1:24:58>> cuz like for side county they got their
1:24:59own cath lab. I want to know how fast it
1:25:01takes them to get somebody compared to
1:25:04ours is hours is hours out of the pocket
1:25:06for two hours while they on the call.
1:25:09You follow me? Two and a half hours
1:25:11>> or theirs is out of pocket for
1:25:13>> 45 minutes maybe. You know,
1:25:15>> so if you got somebody that's serious
1:25:17that's taken to let's Lexon or Thomas
1:25:20here and uh has the does the ambulance
1:25:24have to stand by until the hospital
1:25:26decides we need to send them to preite
1:25:28or we send back they call them back in
1:25:31transport?
1:25:32>> Well, normally what'll happen is
1:25:34>> um once we deliver them to one of the
1:25:36local hospitals
1:25:37>> most of the time they will call a
1:25:39critical care truck to transport them.
1:25:41>> Oh, okay. Okay.
1:25:43They they have to clean the truck. They
1:25:44have to get a new stretcher. They have
1:25:46to do go through a lot of maintenance
1:25:48stuff while they're there. Right.
1:25:50>> Yes. They do have to do that to get back
1:25:51in service, but we don't normally do in
1:25:54facility transfers, meaning from
1:25:55facility to facility. The hospital takes
1:25:58care of that of themselves. On the rare
1:26:00occasions that they don't have somebody
1:26:02available to transfer somebody, so
1:26:04they're actively having a heart attack
1:26:06and they got to lean for some reason. If
1:26:08critical care can't get there, they
1:26:09can't provide air medical or something
1:26:11that it's up to the supervisor depending
1:26:14on what what kind of availability we
1:26:16have at the time whether we can transfer
1:26:18them from facility to another facility,
1:26:21but we've not done inter facility
1:26:23transfers
1:26:26at least 10 years or we had to cut that
1:26:29and most other services don't. So if
1:26:30you've had a heart attack and you need a
1:26:32calath and if you at leoning they get
1:26:34enter they get their ambulance
1:26:39>> how long is we're picking them up on the
1:26:41scene and
1:26:42>> right I'll get you
1:26:44>> yeah you go straight on the high point
1:26:45or straight
1:26:46>> on to the where we need to go so
1:26:48protocol closest appropriate facility
1:26:51>> right so this internal transportation
1:26:54that been going on the last couple years
1:26:56maybe is that
1:26:56>> it's been going on for at least 10 plus
1:26:58years
1:26:59>> 10 Okay.
1:27:00>> 10 or 12
1:27:01>> at least. Yes.
1:27:02>> So that's when they started hiring
1:27:06>> somewhat. Yeah.
1:27:07>> But we got to work at the point that we
1:27:09were overwhelmed cuz I was still on
1:27:11truck. We were overwhelmed with doing
1:27:13facility transfer. So we didn't have any
1:27:15time to run the medical the EMS calls
1:27:17here in town. We were too busy taking
1:27:19people up the road so to speak.
1:27:21>> So they keep an ambulance just so you
1:27:24don't ride the helicopter. It's not that
1:27:26pressing. Um they keep an ambulance over
1:27:29here at le
1:27:32>> Wow. So that's another hour or two. Huh?
1:27:35>> They got a Well, another Yeah. Hour and
1:27:37a half.
1:27:39>> We need a Kath lab. Bad. Uh Mr. Rickard,
1:27:42if you could get with Casey. He's got
1:27:44the contact information. If you don't
1:27:46mind giving our u our manager,
1:27:49ex-manager a call and seeing see if we
1:27:52can get a contact. He's been dealing
1:27:54with the hospitals about this Kath lab.
1:27:56Well, I've been working with right now
1:27:58I'm working with the the new CEO at
1:28:00Novon, Mr. Brown, Chris Brown, and they
1:28:04are I'm working with him. They are
1:28:05putting in a certificate for need for a
1:28:09cath lab in Davidson County, and it's
1:28:12not specific to them. It's just showing
1:28:14there's a need for someone to do it. So,
1:28:17I'm already working with them on that.
1:28:19We get that put together. They send that
1:28:21they approve a certificate they need
1:28:23>> and they get up to the two hospitals
1:28:26[clears throat] to battle it out who
1:28:27>> that's that's going to take time.
1:28:30>> It will take a little bit of time but
1:28:31they are putting in a certificate they
1:28:33need and I've been working Mr. Brown to
1:28:36>> establish that.
1:28:38>> Okay. Good deal. Sounds like it's
1:28:40already been I know Casey was working on
1:28:42it and
1:28:42>> yeah he was working with
1:28:44>> Right. Okay.
1:28:47>> Any additional questions that we can
1:28:48answer or
1:28:50I think we're good.
1:28:52>> Thank you so much. Thank you so much. We
1:28:54>> get a breakdown out and of those 93,000
1:28:57breakdown of what bases require, what
1:29:01how many calls or whatever.
1:29:02>> Okay. We'll work on that.
1:29:07>> We appreciate y'all listening and paying
1:29:10attention to this information. You've
1:29:12been very engaged in this tonight. We
1:29:14thank you for caring. We thank you for
1:29:15supporting your EMS personnel
1:29:17[clears throat] uh moving forward and
1:29:19and maybe have taking that opportunity
1:29:21to ride learn what they do, learn about
1:29:23the complexity of their job. Uh we'll
1:29:25get you that information you asked for
1:29:26as follow up back through the manager's
1:29:28office. And uh again, we appreciate your
1:29:31public service and dedication. T
1:29:33>> Thank you. Thank you.
1:29:35>> Your chief training officer,
1:29:38>> she's back there. Yeah.
1:29:40>> What can we do for the training? What
1:29:43aspect do we need to do there? Like what
1:29:45what where are we missing it at? I'm
1:29:47sorry, but I respect you a lot. Work
1:29:51with you forever. She's been with you
1:29:53forever. She's been here forever. And
1:29:56she's probably one of the smartest
1:29:58people involved that that I know. Uh
1:30:02>> we do send a limited number of people to
1:30:03conferences. We sent some people to the
1:30:05administrators conference. How many did
1:30:07we send to the
1:30:12to expo. Typically that's that's eight.
1:30:15>> We usually send eight to that,
1:30:16>> but that's typically the EMS expo is um
1:30:20from the office of EMS every year.
1:30:22Typically we are able to send eight
1:30:25folks to that.
1:30:26>> Okay.
1:30:27>> But that's pretty much it for the year.
1:30:31>> We have 150 providers.
1:30:33>> I got you.
1:30:34>> So they might
1:30:36>> we usually drop draw a lottery.
1:30:39>> I got you. just the best we can do for
1:30:40that's all we got.
1:30:42>> Yeah. I mean, we have um comparable one
1:30:45of the things I learned at at the
1:30:47administrator's conference we were at
1:30:48last week was that and and I'm not going
1:30:51to name names because I don't think
1:30:52that's appropriate, but there's a county
1:30:53that's very close to us that's pretty
1:30:56consistent with us that has a training
1:30:58budget of $50,000 a year and then
1:31:00$35,000 a year to send people to
1:31:02conferences and educate their people.
1:31:05>> Right. So, their folks are always
1:31:07getting to get this
1:31:10um further education,
1:31:12>> networking,
1:31:13>> this piece that's talking about your
1:31:14secession planning and how who you know
1:31:17is going to be your people in 10 years
1:31:18that are going to run your place and
1:31:20keep it going.
1:31:21>> They have the money and the ability to
1:31:23make those people.
1:31:25>> I got you.
1:31:25>> Right. And and we we don't
1:31:28>> Yeah.
1:31:28>> Um and that's I think that's a detriment
1:31:31to us. We have people that would love,
1:31:34you know, our a lot of our folks are
1:31:36sponges.
1:31:37>> They'll learn anything you teach them.
1:31:39>> Yeah.
1:31:39>> We just got to have the ability to to
1:31:42give them the opportunity for
1:31:43>> I got you. I got you. Well, I appreciate
1:31:45you. I know you've been teaching ever
1:31:47since forever. So, thank you. I respect
1:31:51your opinion. Thank you.
1:31:52>> Thank you, Alton. Appreciate it.
1:31:54>> Thank you, Al.
1:31:55>> All right. I guess we're going to talk
1:31:57about these response times here and um
1:31:59>> really briefly just to supplement to the
1:32:01study. Um and
1:32:05I suspect y'all will still have more
1:32:08questions than we'll have answers
1:32:09tonight. Um and that's okay. We there's
1:32:11always homework to do. Um but I will say
1:32:16you all are are actually doing a lot of
1:32:19the things that the study's
1:32:21recommending. It's just not
1:32:22comprehensively packaged. So, for
1:32:24example, in our capital improvement plan
1:32:26right now in the next five years, we
1:32:28have $2.9 million in the plan for EMS
1:32:31base enhancements. So, we're doing it.
1:32:34We just don't all know it's in there,
1:32:36you know, comprehensively. So, um if
1:32:39you'll look at the the handout I gave
1:32:41you, this is all this information was
1:32:43pulled from other studies that these
1:32:45folks did over the years and it shows um
1:32:50some total response times. And let me
1:32:53pause for just a minute and just
1:32:55highlight. I have highlighted in red
1:32:57right there. You see uh turnout times
1:33:00for for this county compared to for
1:33:03Scythe County.
1:33:05We're right on spot on 2 minutes 18
1:33:07seconds. So, um there's a lot of hard
1:33:11work going on. I know there's a lot of
1:33:12overtime going on, but these folks are
1:33:14working it and they're getting out the
1:33:16door and we're very comparable with with
1:33:19Forcy in that respect. Um, our travel
1:33:22time, if you think about it, obviously
1:33:24far right column, you see the square
1:33:26miles. Um, much larger county than say
1:33:30for sight, but our travel times aren't
1:33:31that far off given the the geographic
1:33:33challenges that we're faced at times.
1:33:36Um,
1:33:38so I think, you know, they're doing a
1:33:40great job holding it in the road and I
1:33:42know there's some certainly some things
1:33:44we can do to improve and make make
1:33:46things better um overall. Um, but this
1:33:50is your county to county comparison for
1:33:52these these five groups here. Um,
1:33:56if you look down at the bottom table,
1:33:59this is, uh, Davidson County yearbyear
1:34:02over the course of the time the
1:34:04information was pulled through CAD for
1:34:06three years. And one of the challenges,
1:34:09um, you know, you'll see 911 call
1:34:10processing time is a little little on
1:34:12the higher side, but it's coming down
1:34:14year by year. Um, and I can't speak
1:34:18about why all that is that way, but our
1:34:20911 center does operate as an EMD or an
1:34:22emergency medical dispatch and they have
1:34:25to follow certain protocols. So, if you
1:34:28called High Point 911, for example, High
1:34:30Point City, they don't handle medical
1:34:32calls. They have to transfer those to
1:34:33Guilford County. So, they have to follow
1:34:36all these steps. And Nicole can probably
1:34:38weigh in if y'all had questions about
1:34:40why those times were were a little bit
1:34:42little bit higher. Um, but I'm gonna
1:34:45flip through this and then if y'all have
1:34:46questions, we can hit those. If you'll
1:34:47turn the page, then all you look at it's
1:34:50upside down or right side up. But the
1:34:53second page here, um,
1:34:56I just wanted I pulled this information
1:34:58today. These are just minimums. Now, I'm
1:35:00not saying this is what people come in
1:35:03at and are earning, but if you look at
1:35:04these minimum hourly rates of pay for
1:35:06Davidson County, juxtaposed for Scythe
1:35:09County,
1:35:11EMT and advanced EMT,
1:35:15we're we're ahead of them by a little
1:35:17bit.
1:35:18>> And paramedic, we're at about 97%. So,
1:35:22we're we're pretty pretty close to the
1:35:24to Force County. I don't have a
1:35:26comprehensive case study for y'all, but
1:35:27that's that's the
1:35:30that's the product of the work that
1:35:32y'all have worked with Alton and his
1:35:35team and the department to make those
1:35:37adjustments because we've made some
1:35:38adjustments over the years. And we'll
1:35:39get um to that in just a second before
1:35:43we get to these potential action items.
1:35:44If you look at the last page, it just
1:35:47shows a little bit of um vacancy rates.
1:35:51Now, if you look, and this goes back,
1:35:53this follows kind of the timeline of the
1:35:54study. If you go back to May of 2023,
1:35:59pretty high vacancy rate.
1:36:02Um, little tough times. And you all may
1:36:05not recall, but around that same time,
1:36:07you see there was a pretty good
1:36:09correction in a couple months time.
1:36:11That's you all approved a pretty good
1:36:12pay study uh plan
1:36:16in May. So between the COLA in July and
1:36:20and that pay study uh there were you
1:36:23know they received around I think it was
1:36:2515.9% increases for your uh EMTs and
1:36:29AMTs and your I think your paramedics
1:36:31were around 12.9% and I think we've done
1:36:33some adjustments since then. Now granted
1:36:35you saw it dip and now we're back around
1:36:37the 15% mark. What is 15% right now has
1:36:41probably 14 openings that's riding on
1:36:44the truck. That's what we're talking
1:36:45about. people that can ride on the
1:36:46truck. So, um, but they're hold they're
1:36:49holding their own. Uh, I know they're
1:36:51working hard. I see that we look at the
1:36:55budget, right? You have lap salaries.
1:36:58So, when your budget is going strong on
1:37:00the overtime side, but your lap
1:37:02salaries, there's a lot of slack. That
1:37:03means that there's a lot of openings.
1:37:05It's being filled by that overtime. And
1:37:07they, you know, that was pretty clear.
1:37:09So, if y'all will go back to page two,
1:37:11sorry, I should have had them in a
1:37:12different order. these action items kind
1:37:15of stuff we've already hit on and of
1:37:17course there's other things. Um
1:37:20so I I won't belver the point. Um but
1:37:23something to help with those peak times,
1:37:25you know, those pressure points during
1:37:27those peak times, which if you when you
1:37:29review the study, that's typically 9:00
1:37:31a.m. to 9:00 p.m. That's your peak
1:37:33times. Um whether it be contracting or
1:37:36us just adding our own. Um not really
1:37:39sure what the projected cost is. We'll
1:37:40have to dig into that a little bit more.
1:37:42Uh but that would relieve some workload
1:37:44pressures. Uh we've already talked about
1:37:46base three, a new base. It's around
1:37:50650,000 give or take. Talked about
1:37:52communication improvements and that's an
1:37:54ongoing thing. I highlighted that
1:37:56because they're already working through
1:37:58some of that now. They being Alton and
1:38:00his team. Um
1:38:04continue working with the hospitals for
1:38:06the for the Kath lab which we talked
1:38:08about. Um, other base improvements.
1:38:10Dwayne and his team have actually done a
1:38:13lot of improvements already. I'm not
1:38:14saying that there aren't still more to
1:38:16be done, but they he had a a big old
1:38:18checklist that I looked at that he sent
1:38:20me a couple of weeks ago that uh was
1:38:22pretty comprehensive. There's always
1:38:24room for more improvement, but a lot of
1:38:25that's been u taken care of and I'm sure
1:38:28there's more that can be done, but
1:38:30um I'll let out weigh in on this one. A
1:38:34little bit of night shift differential.
1:38:35[clears throat]
1:38:36Um,
1:38:37>> so we have difficulty filling night
1:38:38shifts. So I we're just like everybody
1:38:42else. We struggle finding people for
1:38:43night shifts.
1:38:45>> So I know that Nicole and their bunch
1:38:46has a $3 an hour night shift
1:38:49differential. So maybe we should talk
1:38:51about potentially in, you know, putting
1:38:54that in effect for us as well.
1:38:58[snorts]
1:38:59>> And that one you do have a cost estimate
1:39:01there. And that's based off of the
1:39:02number of employees. And that even
1:39:04includes some of the fringes there
1:39:06>> that would include even part- timerrs
1:39:07that would pick up a night shift as well
1:39:09just to try to get people to sign up.
1:39:12>> And then the last one we have, this is
1:39:13just, you know, our top, you know, real
1:39:15quick list is, you know, potentially
1:39:17adding call takers to emergency
1:39:18communications, which would help with
1:39:20their uh call times because they
1:39:25um
1:39:26when they get those non-emergency calls,
1:39:28you know, that's clogging up a dispatch,
1:39:30a potential telecommunicator, and that
1:39:32could help. But it would, you know,
1:39:33probably to be impactful, you would
1:39:35probably have to hire a total of eight.
1:39:37So they'd have two per shift and, you
1:39:40know, but I think that could help their
1:39:42uh call processing times.
1:39:43[clears throat] John work
1:39:44>> talk about that a little bit. Nicole
1:39:47Nicole can probably explain it a whole
1:39:49lot better.
1:39:49>> Um yeah, so when you guys um hired me, I
1:39:52had mentioned that my viewpoint on
1:39:55what's next in the future of 911 is call
1:39:57takers. Uh Rob and I had discussed it a
1:40:00little bit before he retired. Um have
1:40:02kind of been in the county manager's
1:40:03year for a couple years now. Um that we
1:40:06have seen the trend of how much is on a
1:40:08telecommunicator that must take a 911
1:40:10call and also dispatch responders to the
1:40:13scene. um any telecommunicator in there
1:40:16at any given time could be taking a
1:40:17cardiac arrest or a child birth or any
1:40:20number of emergency medical calls, fire
1:40:23calls, police calls, and also have to
1:40:25break that attention span to dispatch
1:40:27that call. Um and the person call taken
1:40:30that's taking a medical call could be
1:40:31dispatching sheriff's department who has
1:40:33no idea what EMS is currently dealing
1:40:35with. Um so you're essentially looking
1:40:38at call takers to split that job duty
1:40:40into two different categories.
1:40:43um counties around us are looking at it.
1:40:45It is something that is on 911 radar. Um
1:40:48the more that you add to
1:40:49telecommunicators, something is going to
1:40:51give. So, either you're going to tell
1:40:53that ambulance to stand by before giving
1:40:55their radio update to handle a caller or
1:40:57you're going to tell a deputy that's
1:40:58calling for help to hold on uh that they
1:41:01have to deal with a child birth of a of
1:41:02an infant. It's it's any manner of
1:41:05things that could be happening at one
1:41:06time. So, that has been on the radar for
1:41:08a couple years with 911. Um and that one
1:41:11of course spoke with me after this study
1:41:12that this is definitely something to
1:41:14look at for future development for us.
1:41:17>> Now would you need this during peak
1:41:18time?
1:41:19>> Yes. So
1:41:20>> just not just not all the time because I
1:41:22take it from
1:41:23>> we have a call analysis that with our
1:41:25call taken software that allows us to
1:41:27see where heat maps are and allows us to
1:41:30see where peak call volume is. Right now
1:41:31we're looking about 9:00 am to 900 pm is
1:41:34the highest call volume that's coming
1:41:35in. Um I believe out in the study kind
1:41:38of showed that same time frame. Um so we
1:41:40would look at putting them on the
1:41:42highest peak call volume times.
1:41:44>> Would that take eight to do that Tim?
1:41:46>> Probably not. The only thing I and I
1:41:48don't know this is Nicole's world really
1:41:50is
1:41:51>> probably not. No. But um the one thing
1:41:55thinking out loud and I don't I don't
1:41:57know how that would affect your your
1:41:59protocols and processes you know as far
1:42:01as training is concerned because you'd
1:42:03have a set you know a different kind of
1:42:06set of rules at different time.
1:42:06>> I don't know if that would change a
1:42:07thing but if they did the peak time that
1:42:09would probably cut it in half.
1:42:11>> I was thinking
1:42:12>> that's what I'm thinking.
1:42:13>> And you would want to obviously you have
1:42:15to give them off time. So if you have
1:42:17eight you wouldn't work those eight 9
1:42:19to9
1:42:20>> true
1:42:20>> seven days. So, you're looking at doing
1:42:22four on one schedule, four on the
1:42:24opposite rotation where they rotate out.
1:42:26Um, so really be looking at putting four
1:42:28on the the peak call volume times, which
1:42:30is where my eight come from just to give
1:42:33some
1:42:34>> some days off.
1:42:35>> I [laughter] got you. You're not saving
1:42:36us money this week.
1:42:39>> I got you. But it would alter how call
1:42:41taken is done because right now your
1:42:43telecommunicator is either telling that
1:42:45caller to hold on or they're telling
1:42:46that deputy EMS unit, fire department to
1:42:49hold on because obviously you guys
1:42:52imagine I mean I can do this as a mom
1:42:53because I have a child at home that
1:42:55demands that I listen to everything she
1:42:56says at the same at same time as my
1:42:58husband talking. So it's the same thing
1:43:00for a telecommunicator. They have two
1:43:02different people that are demanding
1:43:03their 100% attention and a
1:43:05[clears throat] human is just not able
1:43:07to listen to both of those at the same
1:43:08time. when you have a caller that is
1:43:10coming in this ear, your responders are
1:43:13coming through a speaker from your
1:43:14computer. So just imagine, I mean,
1:43:16listen to the radio and the TV at the
1:43:18same time. It's the same thing. Try to
1:43:19pick up 100% of what each one of those
1:43:22things are doing at any given time. So
1:43:23it splits those duties
1:43:24>> and that and that's something that's not
1:43:26going to just help EMS, but it's going
1:43:27to help law enforcement,
1:43:29>> fire department, it's going to help the
1:43:30whole system. Correct. Got
1:43:32>> I got a question for you. How long would
1:43:34it take you um from the calls that come
1:43:38in, how many's dispatched
1:43:41to each division? So, in other words,
1:43:44either fire, Thomasville, Davidson
1:43:47County, or Lexon. Is that very hard for
1:43:50you to get that information?
1:43:51>> I can get it for you.
1:43:52>> So, you understand what I want? Probably
1:43:54in a year's or in a year's time. Is it
1:43:56hard to do? Cuz I'm thinking your
1:43:57computer
1:43:58>> processing time.
1:43:59>> No, just how many calls come in? Oh, how
1:44:01many calls
1:44:02>> total? Then out of those calls that come
1:44:04in, how many are actually dispatched?
1:44:06>> And and and when I say dispatched, then
1:44:09I want to know dispatched to whom?
1:44:12>> Yeah.
1:44:12>> To Thomasville Police Department, to
1:44:14Lexon Police Department, to And you can
1:44:16put the fire departments as a whole.
1:44:18>> Y that's right.
1:44:18>> Your law enforcement calls are your
1:44:20highest. That's the majority of what we
1:44:22take, which we do. Denton, Thomasville,
1:44:24Lexington, and the sheriff's department.
1:44:25[clears throat] So there's just a lot
1:44:26more entities than that. So your your
1:44:28law agencies are your highest. But one
1:44:30thing I want to look at in my own mind
1:44:32is how many calls we got and then out of
1:44:34those calls, how many were actually
1:44:36dispatched somewhere. You know,
1:44:38>> actually we've sent somebody for boots
1:44:40on the ground. You know,
1:44:41>> I'd like to add a caveat to what he's
1:44:43asking for, too, cuz I'd like to see uh
1:44:46one thing that this communication has
1:44:48brought out is obviously there are calls
1:44:50where we're we have a a station unit
1:44:54waiting on law enforcement to check
1:44:56before they can even get to the scene.
1:44:58So, they have to they have to get
1:45:01somewhere and y'all are talking to them
1:45:03and they can't check the scene or go see
1:45:05because law enforcement has to go check
1:45:06and make sure everything's safe first
1:45:08and then they go I'd like I'd like to
1:45:10see how many of those and what those
1:45:12time frames are because
1:45:14>> the stage for
1:45:15>> Yeah. You know, like if if you c
1:45:18instance I called the sheriff's
1:45:21department probably
1:45:24five months ago. I thought that there
1:45:26was a girl uh
1:45:29I I thought she was dead. Looked like in
1:45:31the car. I don't know if she had
1:45:33overdosed on fentanyl or whatever, but I
1:45:35called because she was on my property
1:45:37and there was a car sitting there and
1:45:39the two people looked like they were
1:45:41strung out. I heard the ambulance come.
1:45:44I rode my my golf cart up to the D and
1:45:46they were staged at the uh at the gas
1:45:49station because they can't come until
1:45:51somebody makes sure that if is there a
1:45:54dead body? Is there something going on?
1:45:55So, the sheriff's department had to
1:45:57come, but the sheriff department never
1:45:59made it there and I guess they came off
1:46:02of the high they were on and then they
1:46:04realized they were on my property and my
1:46:06wife was down there with like a
1:46:08flashlight and they moved the car and
1:46:10then we ended up having to call back and
1:46:12be like, "Hey, they're gone. They they
1:46:15just got out on the main highway and
1:46:16they're heading back towards Lexington.
1:46:18They've left and they're under the
1:46:20influence." So, we called back 911 and
1:46:23then the the EMS truck
1:46:26had to check out and then leave, but
1:46:28they couldn't come down there because
1:46:30the sheriff department had to check the
1:46:32scene first, but that you know it. So,
1:46:34those time frames too also limit and and
1:46:37add to a call time
1:46:40>> and I didn't even think about that till
1:46:42you were mentioning
1:46:43>> and that ambulance can't go anywhere
1:46:44else because it's
1:46:45>> they can't because they're stuck there
1:46:47waiting to respond to that. But uh I
1:46:51mean if if if the sheriff department
1:46:53doesn't have enough deputies and people
1:46:55going then it affects the like the whole
1:46:58system affects one another.
1:47:00>> So
1:47:00>> what um
1:47:03I take it how well never mind three
1:47:06three months I don't need a year. Okay
1:47:08that's a lot that's a lot of work. So
1:47:10>> okay if
1:47:10>> you can just give me the last three
1:47:12months would be great and
1:47:13>> yes sir
1:47:14>> that'll tell me a lot right there. I
1:47:16don't know how you get that information
1:47:17to Chris's. I don't know. I don't know.
1:47:20I'm sorry. Just forget about it. Just
1:47:22forget about it.
1:47:22>> That'd be pretty tough there.
1:47:23>> I'm just saying that
1:47:25>> I'm just saying that, you know, even
1:47:27even vacancies in the sheriff's
1:47:30department, high call volumes there, it
1:47:32it affects the whole system as a whole
1:47:34that you're talking about. So, even
1:47:36though we say in a perfect world an EMS
1:47:38truck could be here and this time could
1:47:39be there, there are multiple factors
1:47:42that play with each call. And it's kind
1:47:43of crazy when you think about it.
1:47:46Yes, sir. So, you don't have to worry
1:47:48about that in a call. I'm sorry.
1:47:49>> And what that'll do to as well is tell
1:47:52me if there's 20% of the calls that come
1:47:53in that we do nothing with, you know,
1:47:56kind of like the BLS calls and that kind
1:47:58of thing. So,
1:47:59>> thank you.
1:48:00>> I appreciate what y'all do. Thank you.
1:48:05>> Okay, we have one more item I believe
1:48:09before close session. Miss Harris with
1:48:11this is some appointments are rebly
1:48:16>> I can.
1:48:17>> Okay.
1:48:18>> Good afternoon, Madam Chair, fellow
1:48:20commissioners. We have a um a board of
1:48:23adjustment member retiring at the end of
1:48:25his normal term, Mr. Jim Bogs, and we
1:48:28need a an appointment for a position on
1:48:31that board. Looks like there are five
1:48:35candidates that have been put forward.
1:48:36We have two existing alternates right
1:48:39now. Thomas Rebecca Brown who was
1:48:42appointed in uh August of 2024 and we
1:48:45have Mr. Clark Brown who was appointed
1:48:47in September of 2024. I think we have
1:48:50Mr. Doug Hunt, [clears throat and cough]
1:48:52excuse me, who was on the Thomasville
1:48:54City Council and I think he was planning
1:48:56board a little bit before that. Mr.
1:48:58Bobby Trigloff and I'm not real familiar
1:49:00with Mr. Trigloff. I'm hope I'm saying
1:49:02his his name right. And then Mr.
1:49:05Christian Jones has put an application
1:49:07in. Christian is an alternate on our
1:49:10planning board currently and is a
1:49:11surveyor here in Davidson County. So, um
1:49:15we are
1:49:17up to um what I'll say this with respect
1:49:21to Mr. Brown and Mrs. Brown that current
1:49:25our current uh alternates. Our it's our
1:49:29uh it is our um process to allow them to
1:49:34alternate when we're missing a regular
1:49:36board member and both of them have
1:49:37served as voting members and they're
1:49:39both very very capable and uh would
1:49:42would serve the board well.
1:49:44I would love uh
1:49:48both of those. I mean they serve our
1:49:50community with uh keeping the county
1:49:52clean. They've done everything. They are
1:49:54proven uh leaders. Plus, they've served
1:49:57right here. Um
1:49:58>> you're thinking about Rain now, right?
1:50:00>> Yeah. Yeah.
1:50:02>> That's Clark is is Rain's husband. Uh
1:50:05Rebecca is no relation.
1:50:07>> I like Clark.
1:50:08>> Yeah.
1:50:08>> Yeah.
1:50:09>> I'm open to whatever y'all's wishes are.
1:50:13>> I'm sorry if I spoke out of term, Madam
1:50:16Chair.
1:50:16>> That's okay. That's okay. Would you like
1:50:18to offer up Mr. Brown?
1:50:20>> I would. I'd like to offer up Mr. Brown.
1:50:22I think he'd be he's served on this.
1:50:24He's voted. He's been there. I I think
1:50:26he would be a phenomenal
1:50:30>> he didn't hesitate to take the position
1:50:32to begin with. You know, I think he was
1:50:34very in interested in it and the kind of
1:50:38person that he is is a, you know, he's
1:50:40very meticulous about the kind of work
1:50:43that he did in his own life. So, I I
1:50:46know he does a good job.
1:50:47>> Either of them either of them would
1:50:49would serve the ward very well.
1:50:51people understand or are or are aware of
1:50:55just how much work the Brown family puts
1:50:59in this county. I mean, they're out
1:51:00there every Thursday picking up trash.
1:51:02>> Picking up. Yeah.
1:51:05>> Solid waste if I'm not mistaken about
1:51:07this.
1:51:07>> He is he is on solid waste committee.
1:51:09>> So, I'd second Chris's motion.
1:51:12>> Have a motion and a second.
1:51:13>> I appreciate that.
1:51:14>> Any other questions? All in favor say I.
1:51:17I.
1:51:18>> Okay.
1:51:18>> Thank y'all. Thank y'all. Thank you.
1:51:20>> Be back before you for an alternate.
1:51:22>> So So do you need an alternate
1:51:24>> that we got an alternate? We could
1:51:26appoint both of them this evening.
1:51:27>> Okay. Very good. Very good. Okay.
1:51:29>> And now a consideration for someone to
1:51:31fill Mr. Brown seat.
1:51:32>> Mr. Brown seat.
1:51:35>> Um who were they options again?
1:51:39>> Doug Hunt, Bobby uh
1:51:41>> Bobby Triglo.
1:51:42>> Now Doug's got some experience.
1:51:44>> Or Christian Jones. Either one.
1:51:46>> Christian. I like Christian. Christian's
1:51:48a surveyor on our board of our planning
1:51:50board right now
1:51:51>> and I I'm um he his insight with respect
1:51:55to the planning board is very valuable
1:51:57to us. I would imagine he's put this
1:51:59application in because he's very busy
1:52:02and he's conflicted on a lot of the
1:52:03subdivisions that he has to vote on.
1:52:05>> Yeah.
1:52:05>> So, u he he's a excellent member, a good
1:52:09thinker. Um but it's
1:52:11>> and that's another one of those things
1:52:12where he's proven himself. He's been
1:52:14involved and I I like Christian. That's
1:52:17a good recommendation by you. So,
1:52:19>> so you going to make a motion motion if
1:52:22if uh the board would approve Christian
1:52:24Jones for the alternate.
1:52:26>> I'll second it.
1:52:28>> All in favor?
1:52:29>> I and and we'll be back shortly for an
1:52:32alternate for the planning board. Now,
1:52:34[laughter]
1:52:36>> thank you.
1:52:36>> But thank you guys.
1:52:37>> Thank you. Okay. [clears throat]
1:52:39>> Motion to go into close session. Motion
1:52:41to second. All in favor? Bye.
1:52:43>> Bye.
1:53:14Heat. Heat.
1:54:53>> [music]
1:55:22>> Heat. Heat.
1:57:22Heat.
1:57:36Heat.
2:04:12Heat. Heat.
2:08:40Heat.
2:08:55Heat.
2:09:13Heat.
2:09:17[music]
2:09:26Heat.
2:09:50Heat. Heat.
2:10:44Heat. Heat.
2:10:50Heat. Heat.
2:11:47>> [music]
2:12:33>> Heat. Heat.
2:13:15Ping pong.
2:13:30Heat. Heat.
2:14:34Heat. Heat.
2:17:47Heat. Heat.
2:19:02Heat. Heat.
2:19:09Heat. Heat.
2:21:33Debbie wants a second.
2:21:34>> Debbie wants
2:21:36Who made the motion?
2:21:39>> Chris made the motion. And who made the
2:21:41second?
2:21:42>> Uh, Trip. trip. Okay.
2:21:45>> All in favor say I.
2:21:46>> I.
2:21:48>> Uh Mr. Jones, would you please provide
2:21:50us with a report?
2:21:51>> Yes. The board had a close session,
2:21:53legal close session, discuss one matter.
2:21:56Um it is the um it is a matter in front
2:21:59of the North Carolina Office of
2:22:01Administrative Hearings. It's um case
2:22:04number 26 OSP
2:22:0601858
2:22:09uh Barry Allen Richards versus Davidson
2:22:11County Department of Social Services.
2:22:14Um the uh board provided um uh staff and
2:22:20the attorneys um with uh instructions on
2:22:23how they would like to proceed.
2:22:25>> Thank you very much. Motion to adjurnn.
2:22:27Motion
2:22:28>> second. All in favor say I.
