2026-09-22 - City Council Workshop

00:01Madame clerk, please call the first

00:03item.

00:06>> Approve the minutes of the regular

00:08meeting September 8th, 2026 and

00:11September 15, 2026.

00:15Council members, any items to be edited?

00:18I see none. With that, I move to approve

00:20the minutes for meetings for September

00:238th, 2026 and September 15, 2026.

00:27>> Second.

00:28>> Motion second. discussion. See none. All

00:31those in favor say I. I. All those

00:34opposed, same sign. Motion passes. 70.

00:38Madame clerk, please call the next item.

00:45Public agenda. From the city's recently

00:48adopted civility pledge. The city

00:50council is committed to promoting

00:52civility. They stand united. They lead

00:55with respect and dignity. and they honor

00:58every resident and all communities. They

01:01are working to create an environment

01:02that values shared goals with increased

01:05empathy and genuine dialogue. We now

01:08come to public agenda. The public agenda

01:11allows for up to five speakers to have

01:14five minutes each to address the

01:16council. Please bear in mind that this

01:18is not a period of dialogue with council

01:21or a question and answer period. This is

01:24your opportunity to address the city

01:26council with your concerns. I ask that

01:29you address your remarks to the city

01:30council as a body and not to any

01:33individual council member. No action

01:36will be taken relative to items on the

01:38public agenda other than referral to the

01:41city manager for information as

01:43necessary. Speakers will speak into the

01:46microphone. Please state their name and

01:49address for the record. A time clock

01:51will display the speaker's remaining

01:53time to speak. Order and rules of

01:55decorum will be observed. The first

01:58speaker is Naylor Bay Youth, Economic

02:03[snorts]

02:03Tools for Housing Projects.

02:13>> Good morning. My name is Dela Booth from

02:15312 South Laura Street, Witchaw.

02:19Thank you for taking the time to listen

02:21to my remarks. I am um a longtime

02:23Witchaw resident and business owner,

02:25very involved in our real estate

02:27communities. Um as you guys prepare to

02:29have your workshop today, I just wanted

02:31to share some experiences we've had in

02:34the market. Um my partners and I have

02:36been developing uh workforce housing

02:39here in Witchaw and have several

02:40projects, one that's complete and two

02:42that are in the works and hoping to

02:43bring more to the table. Um, I've also

02:46participated in the landlord tenant um,

02:48task force and I'm very committed to

02:51continuing to improve our housing

02:53standards in the community as well as

02:55affordability. Um, and that's what we're

02:57hoping that we can work with the council

03:00um, to achieve. Uh, as far as the

03:04challenges, um, what we find is that for

03:07lowincome housing, there are resources.

03:09For luxury apartments, there's the

03:12necessary rents to make those

03:14sustainable, but it's the middle of the

03:16road that's really the need. And that's

03:19where I think a partnership between

03:20municipalities and private developers

03:22needs to happen to make more of that

03:24come online. And really that challenge

03:27of economics goes into a lot of

03:29different things. So what we've seen is

03:31when you don't have enough inventory,

03:33rent rates go way up. And that's what's

03:35happened. And recently we're also facing

03:37a lot of other expenses related to just

03:40the operating environment from

03:41construction costs, materials with

03:43tariffs, interest rates, labor costs,

03:46gasoline prices. All these things are

03:49real costs that inflate what it takes to

03:52build a project. However, rent rates

03:54can't just continue to go up in tandem

03:56with that. But banks require a debt

03:58service coverage ratio to give you a

04:01loan. And so if you can't cover the uh

04:05debt service by 1.2 1.25,

04:09you can't get a bank loan. And so, um,

04:13as the construction costs are pretty

04:15much the same in every neighborhood,

04:16rent rates aren't necessarily. Every

04:19neighborhood has different economics.

04:20And so, the neighborhoods that really

04:22need the most development in the core

04:24are very limited by those variables. And

04:27that's where we see a disparity and why

04:29housing hasn't come online in many of

04:31those situations. Um, and we know for

04:34the city it's actually economically more

04:36beneficial to use infield development as

04:38there's already infrastructure in place

04:40and just continuing to have a sprawl to

04:43the outskirts.

04:44Um, so

04:48as we try to do more infield

04:49development, those are kind of some of

04:51the limiting variables that um, you

04:53know, we have to figure out how to

04:55address that economic gap. And there are

04:58three areas that I see how the city

05:00could potentially help us to achieve

05:02these joint goals. Uh first is

05:05streamline the development process. So a

05:08lot of times there's a very clear

05:10process for more of the suburban

05:13development, but in infill core

05:15development, it's a lot more challenging

05:17and it's not clear. So sometimes the

05:19approval processes can take six months

05:22whether it be zoning um getting certain

05:25permissions that we're going to tie up

05:26into city mains all these kind of little

05:28details and so a developer has to spend

05:30hundreds of thousands of dollars to get

05:33to that point before they ever know if

05:34they can even build or not. And so I

05:37think there's some things that could be

05:38done to help with zoning. like if you're

05:41building this type of project in this

05:43area, you know, let's simplify the

05:45zoning process so we don't have to take

05:47three months or have clear standards of

05:50how those infrastructure components tie

05:52in or approvals. Um the decisions need

05:56to happen early and consistently because

05:58that's where the confusion comes from

06:00and every month you have holding cost is

06:02tens of thousands of dollars and all of

06:04that eventually either goes back to rent

06:06or you don't have a sustainable project

06:08to move forward on. Um the second area

06:11is infrastructure. So like I said, the

06:13benefit of infill should be uh that

06:16there's infrastructure

06:18um already available. But we found that

06:20we have to put in fire hydrants. We have

06:22to sometimes pave alleyways. And at Hyde

06:25Park, for example, for 800 square feet

06:28of alley paving, the bid was $38,000

06:31and it should be about $6,000. But

06:33because of some of the um costs that go

06:37into uh the requirements of the PPP

06:40bond, civil engineering, things of that

06:42nature, um it's quite costly. So I think

06:45if there was a way for the city to help

06:47participate in infrastructure

06:49improvements with the developer because

06:52everybody gets the benefit of that, it

06:53would be highly advantageous. And the

06:56third is to create predictable

06:57incentives for infill workforce housing.

06:59And so things that don't require

07:02or legal direction that are really

07:05costly but maybe more simplified

07:07processes. I'm going to run out of time.

07:09There's a lot to cover. But uh anyway,

07:11our larger point is simple. We just want

07:13Witchaw to have more attainable housing

07:16and we want to make it easier to produce

07:18that. Um I have some leave behinds for

07:20you guys. I know that's probably

07:46Thank you, Nella. Can you please, Madame

07:49Clerk, call the next individual,

07:53Eric Leschuk, Infill Housing Challenges.

07:58Morning,

08:02[clears throat]

08:04council and mayor. Um,

08:07appreciate you guys pri uh prioritizing

08:09housing and um and as a as a priority in

08:12our city and visiting our projects. Um,

08:15you guys have made decisions based on

08:18what we've told you and then you've been

08:19able to come and see, you know, what the

08:22result is. I'm here really to talk about

08:25um the real world challenges a lot like

08:27Nella. Uh a little bit about myself, you

08:30know, um 30 years of self-employment,

08:34entrepreneur, business owner, been in

08:37our community, called it home for 40

08:39years, lived every in all the districts

08:42pretty much that you represent. Um so

08:44I'm not from one side of town or

08:46another. I've lived all over, so I've

08:48seen all of it. Um,

08:52we also, uh, but for the last 20 years,

08:55I've had my businesses in the core of

08:57the city. So, I travel a lot, obviously,

09:00downtown and see a lot of what's going

09:02on and what's what the opportunities

09:04are.

09:06I'm here just kind of to represent the

09:08team of people that are working on

09:10infill housing projects in in the core

09:14of the city, whether it be the

09:15subcontractors,

09:17um the con, you know, construction

09:19company, um the different uh small the

09:23small subcontractors like, you know,

09:25Midwest Fire, uh Electric Tech, uh Hard

09:29Layer Services, you know, the investors,

09:31the John's, the Mats, the Peters, the

09:33Tims, the Tererry's, the Chases of the

09:35world. You they're all local folks

09:38wanting to improve our community and um

09:41and offer a product that uh that fits

09:44that mid range. Uh as Nella said,

09:47there's a lot of help in the lower area

09:50and then above area takes care of

09:52itself. Uh but that mid-range is a very

09:55difficult challenge in a u in all a

09:58changing environment which she covered

09:59most of that. So, the process, the

10:02investment, and the construction costs

10:03are kind of my focus. Um, back to the re

10:08reszoning and uh working with all the

10:11different departments, which they all do

10:12their job and uh we've been very um it

10:16it's worked out well, but there's just

10:19nobody doing the whole job. It's really

10:21up to the the creator to figure it all

10:24out and to keep the ball moving. Um time

10:28is attack. she kind of covered that the

10:30longer things take uh it just goes in,

10:33you know, it's something you don't see

10:34on the spreadsheet, but it goes into the

10:36cost. It just does. Infrastructure is

10:38the other one which she's mainly covered

10:39that as well. Um

10:43but I did want to talk about um the tax

10:46base. You know, we want we we like

10:49win-wins. We like win for the investor.

10:51We like win for the tenant. We like win

10:53for the community, win for the city. Um

10:57when you do infield development on

10:59subacre lots, the tax base is enormous

11:04for our community and it's a way that

11:06you know we've already got the

11:07infrastructure mainly there. Um

11:10everything just has to work a little

11:11harder. We don't have to add more

11:13generally to it. and with the the

11:17subacre we had this conversation with u

11:20with one of the members you know with a

11:22bait what I call housing tools

11:24abatements IRBs you know infrastructure

11:28those are things that everybody can win

11:31immediately so for instance at second

11:32and piatt where we're looking at doing a

11:34property that's been vacant for 30 years

11:37the tax revenues say $500 a year the um

11:41property tax value immediately after

11:45that's built, if it's built, and that's

11:47really the question we want you guys to

11:49entertain is how do we supercharge more

11:51people want to take that risk. Um, even

11:55at a 85% abatement, let's just use that

11:58as a for 10 years. The immediate revenue

12:01to the city is like $9,000, $910,000

12:05year one. And then in in year 11, if

12:07it's a 10-year deal, it doesn't just

12:10inch up, it jumps up. it goes to 60 70

12:13$80,000. So if you have if we have these

12:16projects going along in the core of the

12:18community, we make the city makes more

12:21money for their resources and then

12:23eventually it really makes a lot more

12:25money compared to other things that

12:26could be um done on those particular

12:29lots.

12:31Obviously

12:34the the housing tools need to be limited

12:36and uh and time uh but also you know

12:40with the infrastructure uh uh the

12:43infrastructure is does go directly to

12:45the rents whether it be several things

12:47that she mentioned whether it be fire

12:49hydrants or so forth and so on. My four

12:52practical asks are develop a point

12:54person for this project. You know that

12:57that not only the the creator can do

13:00this but then that point person so when

13:02you run into a zoning issue you run into

13:04where's the water man coming from

13:06where's the water come all these

13:08different challenges that that affect

13:10these projects that someone's champion

13:13that process so it just doesn't take

13:15months. um created maybe an automatic

13:18zoning section with the standards that

13:20that the city wants so that as if you're

13:22doing something in the core multifamily

13:25subacres sub you know you have the

13:27automatic ability and the last thing is

13:29um you know structuring infrastructure

13:32tools you know so that we can have some

13:34uh some transparency and then uh

13:37publishing a a step-by-step playbook

13:40that's the biggest thing we've ch we've

13:42had the challenge with is trying to

13:43figure everything out. So if there was a

13:45playbook, [snorts] I think more people

13:47would be encouraged.

13:49Thank you for your time.

13:54>> Thank you, Eric.

14:04Thank you, Eric. Madame clerk, please

14:06call the next individual.

14:09>> Matthew Tanahill, New Leaf Grove.

14:16>> All right. Good morning, mayor, city

14:18council members. Again, my name is

14:19Matthew Tanahill and I serve as

14:21president of One Rise, which is the

14:23organization residing in 67217,

14:25uh, Council Member Dalton Glass Cox, uh,

14:28district here. Uh so I appreciate the

14:29opportunity to introduce you to New Leaf

14:31Grove, a supportive transitional housing

14:33community we are developing on the

14:35campus again in South Witchah. Um we're

14:39proud to be investing in this part of

14:40Witchah and believe New Leaf Grove can

14:42become an important asset for not only

14:44District 4, but for the broader

14:46community. Uh at One Rise, our focus is

14:48on the space between crisis and

14:51long-term stability. We're fortunate as

14:53a community to have some incredible

14:55organizations responding to mental

14:57health challenges, substance uh misuse,

15:00violence, homelessness, and other

15:02crisis. But one of the challenges we

15:04continue to see is what happens next. A

15:07person can successfully complete

15:08treatment, stabilize their health, or

15:10move through a crisis and still face

15:11tremendous barriers if they do not have

15:13a safe place to live, employment

15:15opportunities, transportation, or a

15:18support system around them. New Leaf

15:20Grove is being created to help address

15:22that gap. Uh the community will provide

15:24a small highquality homes and a

15:26supportive environment where individuals

15:28can work uh can continue working with

15:30community partners while rebuilding

15:32stability, pursuing employment, and

15:34preparing for independent uh housing.

15:36This is not intended to be permanent

15:38housing, but the goal is progression. We

15:40want someone to come to New Leaf Grove

15:41at a difficult transition point in their

15:43life, have the time and support

15:45necessary to become stable and

15:47ultimately move forward into independent

15:49housing and make that home available for

15:51the next person who needs it. Uh, one of

15:53the things that also makes the project

15:55different is how we are building it. We

15:57are partnering with Prime Craftsman

15:58Homes, a witchaw modular manufacturer uh

16:01to construct construct the homes locally

16:03while much of the infrastructure work is

16:05occurring on the Wonder Ice campus. uh

16:07instead of waiting for all roads, water,

16:09sewer and other infrastructure to be

16:11completed before vertical construction

16:12can begin. Uh the modular approach

16:15allows those processes to happen

16:16concurrently. [snorts] Uh our

16:18expectation is that the majority of

16:20these homes can be substantially

16:21complete while the public infrastructure

16:23is being completed. Once the sites are

16:25ready, the homes can be transported and

16:27installed. Uh that creates an

16:29opportunity to deliver needed housing

16:31much faster than a traditional uh

16:33sequential development model. This also

16:36changes the risk picture for the city um

16:39is being weighed to ask. A letter of

16:41credit exists to protect against

16:43infrastructure stalling out while

16:45nothing is built to show for it. Because

16:47our homes are manufactured concurrently

16:49and delivered to the sites as

16:51infrastructure near completion, we

16:53aren't asking the city to extend

16:55confidence towards homes that exist only

16:57on paper. By the time the public

16:59infrastructure is subsequentially

17:01completed, the homes themselves are

17:03already built, staged, and ready for

17:05placement. A tangible asset sitting on

17:07site, not a future promise. That's a

17:09materially different risk than the one

17:12the letter credit requirement was

17:13designed for. And we think it's directly

17:15relevant to how the city thinks about

17:17supporting a project like this. And that

17:19brings me to why uh I'm here today. One

17:22arise is asking the city for assistance

17:24regarding the letter of credit

17:25associated with the public

17:26infrastructure for this development. Um

17:29we understand why financial guarantees

17:31exist. The city has a responsibility to

17:34make sure public improvements are

17:35completed and that taxpayers are

17:37protected. Our challenge is that one is

17:39a 501c3 not for profofit. Unlike a

17:42traditional developer, we do not have

17:44large amounts of unrestricted uh

17:46development capital sitting on a balance

17:48sheet. The dollars we raise are intended

17:50to go directly into homes,

17:51infrastructure programs, and ultimately

17:53serving people. Uh when significant

17:56financial uh capacity has to be reserved

17:58to support a letter of credit, the same

18:00capacity cannot be deployed into moving

18:02the project forward. Uh we have already

18:04secured the funding for the first 20

18:06homes and the community care center.

18:09Those gifts were made to build them. If

18:11that donor money has to be redirected to

18:13support a letter of credit, the impact

18:15goes beyond timing. It would delay

18:17homes. It could affect the future giving

18:19because donors need to see their gifts

18:21going into homes and programs not held

18:23in reserve. Our request is not about

18:25avoiding our responsibility to complete

18:28the infrastructure. It's about finding a

18:30way for the city to recognize the unique

18:32structure of this non-for-profit project

18:34and help us keep limited charitable

18:36capital working directly in the

18:37development. Uh, New Leaf Grove uh,

18:40represents what we believe can happen

18:41when philanthropy, nonprofit

18:43organizations, local government, and

18:45private sector partners work together.

18:47We're excited to make this investment

18:4867217 and District 4. We appreciate the

18:51city's consideration and continued

18:53partnership as we bring uh to these

18:55these homes to our community and the

18:57opportunities that come with them. So,

18:59thank you all.

19:01>> Real quick, if I may, mayor, um, how

19:03many homes are you looking to uh, get a

19:05letter of credit for? So right now for

19:08the developments 20 20 homes um for

19:11phase 1 A.

19:12>> Okay.

19:13>> Um and then the total with 1B would be

19:1544 homes and then one community care

19:17center.

19:18>> Okay. I appreciate that. Um do you guys

19:20do you know if you're on uh the rural

19:23water district or are you on city water?

19:25>> I believe we're at city water.

19:26>> Okay. Thank you.

19:27>> You're welcome.

19:28>> One last question. I know we're meeting

19:29this afternoon and so if you could have

19:31like a one sheeter of everything you

19:33said. uh the two previous speakers, this

19:35was incredibly helpful uh for the future

19:37as well with specific asks and action

19:39items and so um if there is that would

19:41be really helpful. Thank you.

19:43>> Thank you.

19:44>> What what's your bank quoting on a

19:46letter credit? What percent?

19:47>> So I believe when we look at typical uh

19:51uh

19:53uh development on this, it's about 35%

19:55of what those infrastructure costs are.

19:57So around $400,000

19:59is what we're looking Yeah. Well, I used

20:01to get a letter credit for 1% of my

20:03project value.

20:04>> Well, then I would love to follow up

20:06with you and see how you can see what

20:08the difference is.

20:09>> Yeah.

20:09>> So, Okay. Okay. I was curious about

20:11that. Thank you.

20:12>> Thank you.

20:14>> Now, the letter of credit, I should say,

20:16what's the cost of the letter of credit?

20:18>> Well, there there's no cost of a letter

20:20of credit to my understanding. It's it's

20:22it's the risk that the city puts on that

20:24to make sure the infrastructurees

20:26>> the bank charges you for letter credit.

20:28>> Yeah. I I don't have that number right

20:30now, but I can

20:31>> generally 1% of the project cost.

20:33>> Yeah.

20:33>> So, what's your total project cost?

20:36>> Uh it for this first phase is around

20:38$2.3 million.

20:40>> Okay. Okay. Thank you.

20:42>> Thank you.

20:48>> Thank you, Matt. Madame clerk, can you

20:50please call the next individual?

20:54>> Leanne Miller, New Leaf Grove.

21:03Good morning, council and mayor. Um,

21:05Leanne Miller. Um, I reside at 906 North

21:08Bo Jardan in Derby, Kansas. I'm a

21:11lifelong Witchan. Um, born and raised.

21:15Good morning and I appreciate the

21:16opportunity to speak with you today. Um,

21:20I work alongside Matthew um and our

21:23partners in advancing the vision and

21:24mission of One Rise and New Leaf Grove.

21:27Matthew talked about why New Leaf Grove

21:29is needed and I want to spend a few

21:31minutes talking about how we are

21:33approaching the project and why the

21:36city's partnership at this stage is

21:37important. This is a project being built

21:40right here in South Witchah in 67217 and

21:43District 4. And whenever possible, we

21:46want that investment involved um in

21:49creating to benefit our local community

21:51as well. From the beginning, we have

21:53challenged oursel to ask a simple

21:55question. How can we deliver quality

21:56housing more efficiently without

21:59sacrificing the dignity or the quality

22:01of the home? That is one of the reasons

22:04we're partnered with CRA Prime Craftsman

22:06Homes. Prime Craftsman Homes builds

22:08modular housing here in Witchah. Rather

22:10than constructing each home entirely

22:13outdoors at the project site, the homes

22:15are built in a controlled manufacturing

22:17environment and then transported to the

22:19development for final installation. For

22:22New Leaf Grove, the changes um the ch

22:25that changes the development timeline

22:27considerably. While contractors are

22:29working on roads, utilities, drainage,

22:32and the other infrastructure needed to

22:33support the community, prime craftsmen

22:36can simultaneously be building the homes

22:38within about 30 days. Um, those are

22:41normally two processes that would

22:43largely occur one after another. For New

22:45Leaf Grove, they can occur at the same

22:47time. Our plan is that as public

22:51infrastructure approaches completion,

22:52the majority of the homes will also be

22:54approaching completion. That means we

22:57can move much more quickly from

22:58development to actual occupancy. And for

23:01us, speed matters. Not because we want

23:04to cut corners, but because shortening

23:06the development timeline allows these

23:08homes to begin serving the community

23:10sooner. It's worth pausing on what that

23:12means from a risk standpoint since I

23:15know that's part of today's broader

23:16conversation about how the city supports

23:19project like ours. The letter of credit

23:21requirement, as Matt mentioned, um,

23:23exists to guard against unfinished

23:25infrastructure with no offsetting asset

23:28behind it. But because the homes are

23:30being built offsite while infrastructure

23:32work is underway by the time the roads

23:34and utilities are substantially

23:36complete, the homes aren't a projection,

23:39they are already on site, ready for

23:41final installation and occupancy. In

23:44that sense, the delivery model itself

23:46functions as a form of security. It

23:48shortens the window of exposure and

23:50reduces the odds of a half-finish

23:52project which is exactly the risk and

23:54letter of the the risk the letter of

23:57credit requirement is meant to address.

23:59There is one other um side of that

24:01equation though and that's financing. Um

24:05as a nonprofit onerise has to be

24:07extremely intentional with every dollar

24:10of capital available to us. New Leaf

24:12Growth is being developed for a

24:14charitable purpose. The financial

24:16resources we raise and borrow are being

24:18assembled to create the infrastructure,

24:20construct the homes, and establish a

24:23community that can serve people for

24:24years to come. That is why the letter of

24:27requ letter of credit requirement has

24:29such a significant impact on a project

24:32like ours. We recognize the purpose of

24:35the city's financial projections and the

24:37importance of ensuring that

24:38infrastructure is completed. But when a

24:41nonprofit has to dedicate significant

24:43financial capacity to a letter of

24:45credit, those resources are effectively

24:47unavailable for the construction we are

24:49simultaneously trying to advance. For an

24:52organization with limited unrestricted

24:54capital, that can have a very different

24:56impact than it does for traditional

24:58development.

25:00We are therefore asking the city to

25:02consider waving the letter of credit

25:04requirement for this project while

25:06maintaining the appropriate

25:07accountability for completing the

25:09infrastructure. New Leaf Grove brings

25:11together nonprofit leadership, local

25:14manufacturing, philanthropy, private

25:16sector expertise, community service

25:19partners, and local government. And the

25:21result is more than the construction of

25:23houses. It is creating a pathway for

25:26those who are receiving our services

25:29from crisis to sus to disability to

25:32employment, independence, and ultimately

25:34a permanent home somewhere in our

25:37community. We appreciate the city's

25:40consideration and its continued

25:42partnership with OneIrise and with this

25:44this investment in district 4. Thank

25:46you.

25:48>> Thank you, Leanne. I actually have a

25:49couple questions. Sure. First and

25:51foremost, uh for folks that don't know,

25:53this is Meridian and I235 wi which is

25:56where uh the new um mental health

25:59hospital will be built or is being

26:02built. Can do you know when that will be

26:04completed and when your project is

26:06supposed to come online? Kind of talk

26:08about the timeline.

26:09>> So the state psychiatric hospital will

26:11be completed and we don't have control

26:13over this. This is a state project. Um

26:16they're anticipating the end of

26:18December, first part of January. They

26:20hope to be operational in the first part

26:22of February. They will be bringing

26:23clients online um very slowly as they st

26:27they staff up and are able to ramp up.

26:30Our project um has been slowed um due to

26:34site improvements, the letter of credit

26:37um and we have the capital ready to

26:40deploy for the homes. Um and we have the

26:43land donation um as well as um a lead

26:46contribution um from Prime Craftsman and

26:49Mr. Steve Felmmyer. Um so when we can

26:52move forward with the site improvements,

26:55we will be ready to deploy. We

26:57anticipate probably early spring

27:02>> and more on that timeline. Um what

27:04you're asking for is something that

27:06you'll be speaking with uh council

27:08member for that district, council member

27:10Glascock, but my question then was uh

27:13you talked about a waiver, but also we

27:16as a council want to protect taxpayers.

27:18So what types of guarantees in terms of

27:21timeline that would be able to show um

27:25that you're going to complete this this

27:27at a specific time frame?

27:32Yeah, I'm gonna have Matt come up and

27:33answer that question.

27:38>> So, we'll be working with Lane

27:39Development team to carry out the

27:41improvements on that, but Prime

27:42Craftsman Homes has indicated what their

27:44timeline would be for the housing

27:46specifically. Um, speaking with Prime

27:48Craftsman, they look typically look at a

27:5030-day window for building those homes.

27:53And so as quickly as we can get um the

27:56petitions filed and get everything going

27:58um I mean we would follow the timeline

28:02that's set out by the development team

28:03to carry that out as effectively as we

28:07can

28:11>> and the infrastructure improvements. I

28:13think one of the questions that council

28:15member Hohisel asked was this is still

28:17within the city limits of Witchah. So

28:19this is Witchaw water. Um, how long are

28:22you anticipating these um, public

28:24improvements to be constructed and is

28:27there a timeline for those?

28:28>> I believe I believe and I'll I'll double

28:31check on this, mayor, and get you

28:32accurate statements here, but from

28:34timeline for when that starts to when we

28:36could start private infrastructure, I

28:38think they're looking from a four to

28:40five month time frame.

28:43And on that, mayor, I do believe that um

28:45it was uh county until we started this

28:49project and then it got pulled in. So

28:51that's why I was asking about the rural

28:53water district because I know there's

28:55some issues out there as far as um water

28:58stability. So that might be something

29:00that we look into as far as improving

29:03that particular area as well.

29:05One of the things that the development

29:08team has shared with us um is because of

29:10the hospital where we're actually laying

29:13out this project, it's very close

29:15proximity to the hospital. So we our

29:18costs for infrastructure are a little

29:20bit less because there's actually a road

29:22that's already going in. So we plan the

29:24development according to that to try and

29:26help reduce some of those costs.

29:30I'm I'm curious how this is going to

29:32contribute to the coordinated care

29:34system that we are working to promote in

29:38terms of making sure that we're all

29:40working together. You talked a lot about

29:42Prime's craftsman's homes and and I'm

29:45curious how you're working with our

29:46housing department and how are we going

29:47to ensure that we're creating an

29:48ecosystem that works together and

29:50doesn't compete against each other.

29:52>> Do you want to answer? You want me to

29:54answer? speak to. So we actually haveus

29:57already in place within the ecosystem.

29:59Second light is one of those. Um

30:00Breakthrough Episcopal Social Services

30:02is one of those. Um Habitat for Humanity

30:05um as well as other partners like Wu

30:07Tech uh in terms of employment and their

30:10new financial tech university. So our

30:12our our vision within this is to be a

30:15convenor. So when we look at the

30:18projects that are already happening

30:19within the ecosystem of those that we

30:21intend to care for, it's how can we be a

30:24good steward to those things that are

30:25happening. I know speaking with um mayor

30:28um and working with the housing

30:30department here with the city is another

30:32aspect of that as they look at

30:33developing their housing on the second

30:36light side and how we can be a

30:37continuation for those that are in that

30:39facility as well. So it's very

30:41strategically thinking and we want to

30:42make sure that uh the greater ecosystem

30:45is felt as the work that we do is

30:47carried out.

30:48>> Um so when you sayou will you be using

30:51our HMIS system?

30:53>> So we would be working we we would want

30:56to work with the COC system. Um we

30:58haven't dove into if we would be in the

31:00HMIS system but if we're going to be

31:02coordinated entry with those that are

31:04experiencing homelessness then yeah we

31:05would want to be a part of that system.

31:06I would really like to see that,

31:08especially if we get to the point where

31:10we give this letter of credit. Of

31:12course, I'll let the council member um

31:14whose district it's falling in lead on

31:15that. I would love to have a follow-up

31:17conversation following him out of

31:19respect for him. Um but I think we need

31:22everybody who is participating in the

31:23ecosystem to utilize that HMIS system so

31:26we can track the data and also track the

31:28measurable success.

31:29>> Absolutely.

31:33>> Thank you, Leanne, and thank you, Matt.

31:35Thank you for your time.

31:37>> Madame clerk, please call the next

31:38individual.

31:41>> Leanne Miller.

31:43>> I'm sorry, Alison Bell. Deteriorating

31:46conditions downtown and on Broadway.

31:51>> Hello.

31:52Good morning, mayor and members of city

31:54council. My name is Dr. Allison Bell,

31:56and I was here just six months ago to

31:58discuss the Commodore property. As a

32:00quick reminder, I own an ABA service

32:01clinic on at 609 North Broadway,

32:04immediately adjacent to Commodore. Six

32:06months ago, I stood up here and I asked

32:07the city council for help with the

32:08Commodore property. I want to take take

32:10a second to make sure that Councilwoman

32:12Ballard understands how thankful I am to

32:14her and her immediate response. Maggie

32:16has been extraordinarily attentive,

32:17responsive, and genuinely helpful

32:19through this entire ordeal. Her and

32:21MACBD have been working aggressively,

32:23but they cannot solve a structural,

32:25legal, and criminal nuisance on their

32:27own. They need the entirety of the city

32:28council. Since January, my weekday

32:31morning has started at 7 a.m. Not inside

32:33preparing for my patients, but outside

32:35cleaning up human waste, picking up

32:36trash, asking individuals who are

32:38unhoused to move along so that my staff

32:40and patients can enter the building

32:41safely. I have been called every name in

32:43the book when simply asking people to

32:45keep moving, and kindly letting know

32:47that there are children in my building.

32:49I've been trapped in my car under the

32:51threat of violence, and I've been told

32:52that they would kill me and my whole

32:54family. I've had my car urinated on. My

32:57cleaner's car has had a peanut butter

32:58and jelly smeared all over it and a man

33:00nearly odeed in the stoop of the

33:02Commodore. This is not just an

33:04inconvenience and it's not this is not

33:06normal. This has invaded my personal

33:08life and my business operations to the

33:10point that my husband called my business

33:11partner and said that the ten that that

33:13it's not tenable for us to remain in

33:15downtown um for the sake of my business

33:18and for the sake of my mental health. So

33:20I grew up in downtown. I grew up at

33:22Maple and Cynica. I was right by

33:24Lawrence Dumont Stadium. I refuse to be

33:26run out of my own neighborhood by

33:28California business owners who are

33:30careless. So, my parking lot is

33:32consistently being used as a public

33:34toilet, a place to rest, and a dumping

33:36ground. This weekend, I cleaned up five

33:37bags of clothes that were dumped in my

33:40parking lot overnight. I spent my

33:42morning yesterday sitting in court with

33:44another or handling another issue

33:46stemming directly from an unhoused woman

33:47that is known to sit in the front yard

33:49of the Commodore who exposed herself to

33:51one of my pediatric patients in my

33:52parking lot. Over the last weekend and

33:55then again yesterday, the police spent

33:56hours clearing the building because a

33:58door leading to the basement of the

33:59Commodore was finally breached after

34:01weeks of being compromised and had been

34:03repeatedly communicated to the owners as

34:05a concern. I have done the leg work. I

34:08located the property owners. I emailed

34:09them repeatedly after finding their

34:11contact information and when their out

34:12of office replies gave me a cell phone

34:14number, I've been contacting them that

34:15way. I have gotten zero responses

34:18through any um channels that I have

34:20tried with them. The owners are

34:22completely MIA proving that voluntary

34:24compliance will not happen.

34:27I am keeping a detailed invoice of the

34:29time that I spend handling their

34:31negligence to send to them directly. And

34:32as a doctorate level board certified

34:34behavior analyst, I am certain that my

34:36billable hour is outside of their

34:37budget.

34:38I've been in this building for nine

34:40months and over those nine months, every

34:42week has gotten progressively harder to

34:43keep my staff and my pediatric patients

34:45safe. I'm asking the city council for

34:47three things. One, establish a permanent

34:49and standing no trespass directive on

34:51file with the police department so that

34:52offers officers can enforce trespass

34:55citations immediately every single time

34:56there are individuals on or in the

34:58property. I've often been told that

35:00there is nothing I can do as an adjacent

35:01business owner with individuals

35:03littering on that property even with the

35:05close proximity to my property line

35:07where is where they like to congregate.

35:09Second, I'm asking that we required the

35:11city attorney to initiate the public

35:12nuisance abatement proceedings against

35:13the odors or place it in a court-ordered

35:15receiverhip so it can be secured,

35:17repaired, and repurposed. Last and most

35:19importantly, I'd like to fix the three

35:21areas on the north and the east sides of

35:22the building that are most frequently

35:23trespassed and loitered in. until

35:25receiverhip can be accomplished. Help me

35:27eliminate the areas that are most often

35:28abused. Along the north side of the

35:30building, there's a stairwell with a

35:31door, the same one that was broken open

35:33over the last weekend. And in that

35:34stairwell, there is consistently trash

35:35and human waste. It is a place where

35:38people hide in, and I've even had to run

35:39people off who went down there to have

35:41sex when children are not more than 20

35:42ft away. to that to the west of that

35:45stairwell, there is a cove between two

35:46brick structures that leaves a small 10

35:48by7 area that people sit and hide in

35:50because there is a concrete footing to

35:52to sit on and protects them from the

35:54elements from all four sides. This is

35:56where the man nearly odeed. Finally,

35:58there's an inset doorway on the east

35:59side of the building that is often used

36:00as a community toilet and smells of

36:02human waste. The doorway has been welded

36:04shut and but but because the doorway is

36:05inset, it creates the privacy that draws

36:07people in. We cannot continue to allow

36:09Jeff Glossky in Kansas City, Jim Shu,

36:11Ryan Mansour, and Nicholas Bicklson of

36:13California to continue to be absent

36:14owners while a local Witchaw native

36:16business owner pays the price in court,

36:18lost time, and safety risks. If they

36:20won't step up, and we know that they

36:22won't, I'm asking you to.

36:24So,

36:26>> Dr. Bell, um, hearing your account of

36:29these last nine months breaks my heart

36:31and also angers me. Um, so what I would

36:34like to see from the city manager is to

36:36find out from Witchaw police and Witchaw

36:38fire how many incidents have occurred in

36:41that area solidify a real uh strong um

36:46letter to these absent owners. In

36:48addition, the three asks that she um has

36:51requested, can this be vetted through

36:53the city attorney and provide a

36:56recommendation for the city council to

36:58act upon? Um, this is unacceptable and

37:01as a longtime Witchaw resident myself,

37:04um, it angers me that you and your

37:07family would feel and your staff would

37:08feel unsafe in an area not too far away

37:11from city hall.

37:12>> Yes, I actually walked here. So,

37:15>> thank you, Dr. Bell. And I'm sorry that

37:17you have had to come back uh multiple

37:18times, but I'm grateful that council

37:20member Ballard is helping you. U, but

37:22this council also wants to help you. Um

37:25so city attorney um city manager can you

37:28please ask the city attorney uh to find

37:31a recommendation for this council to

37:33move forward with some of these items?

37:35>> We will.

37:36>> Uh mayor, I'd like to share a few

37:38things. Um Chris, could you come up from

37:40MABCD and just talk about um what has

37:45transpired in the last few days and what

37:49we're doing and what the plan is moving

37:50forward because we are being more

37:52aggressive. um because it's been so

37:55non-responsive.

37:56>> Yeah. And yes, ma'am. So, going back a

37:58little bit and Dr. Bell's been great to

38:00work with us and and help us out. She's

38:02been really good to staff and reporting.

38:03So, we've done our best to cooperate

38:05there and appreciate that. Uh we um as

38:09you all know with the title 30

38:10registration option um albeit not a big

38:15um fee in association with what they

38:18have we with with what they've got going

38:20but we had moved it to that point and

38:22stated we would disconnect the power. Um

38:24the there are cell towers on the top of

38:27this building which um is of course what

38:30uh I guess the business owners are you

38:32know getting some income from that

38:34obviously but the fact that there's

38:36electricity the building is what we feel

38:37makes it extra attractive to um

38:40[clears throat] the population. So uh

38:43when we did that they actually responded

38:45to us and did take some efforts to

38:47secure the building and to u try to

38:50police the and secure the perimeter. uh

38:52that obviously faded uh fairly quickly.

38:55Now we've gotten back to the situation.

38:57So we have now boarded done an emergency

38:59board up ourselves, secured the building

39:01the best we could and I asked EverGy as

39:03of yesterday. We started this discussion

39:05Friday and as of yesterday uh I sent the

39:08order to EverGy to disconnect the power.

39:10Um then we are informing the owners that

39:14they will need to in that they need to

39:16further inform any of their clients that

39:18they will be without power probably by

39:20the end of this week.

39:22So with the title 30 because I don't

39:24know all of the specifics about it. Is

39:26that speak to the nuisance

39:29letter that maybe we have sent to some

39:31other businesses that are

39:34using a lot of our resources um at the

39:38expense of the rest of the community?

39:40>> Yes, ma'am. And and we do serve them

39:42with a letter that uh the maximum fee

39:45for that is I think $3,500 which this

39:48building is large enough it would incur

39:50that. uh and then uh they are required

39:53to pay that registration fee and then to

39:54provide us with their plan for uh

39:58correction of of the issues that we

40:01identify.

40:02>> Is there a way to be more aggressive on

40:05the fee because I feel like we have

40:07tried to work with them and have been

40:10beyond patient along with uh Dr. bell.

40:13Um, when they're making hundreds of

40:15thousands of dollars off of the power on

40:18the roof is very hard to sit on $3,500

40:24fine and

40:26>> just feel like that is kind of

40:27laughable, but I know that that's the

40:29policy, but is there anything else that

40:31we can do to

40:34press them?

40:35>> And and that [clears throat] is a great

40:36question, ma'am. So the ordinance limits

40:38that registration fee. So I am limited

40:41by that. Uh they are being charged for

40:44the abatement actions that we take. Um

40:46outside of that I don't have any tools

40:49or authority to levy a any any higher

40:52penalties. I would have to defer to

40:54others.

40:54>> Hopefully the loss of power gets their

40:56attention.

40:57>> Yes ma'am.

40:57>> I appreciate it. Thank you for

40:58everything. And Allison, thank you so

41:00much for coming.

41:02>> I just want to make a note. City

41:04manager. Thank you Chris. Um, I I think

41:06I'm very sensitive to the topic. I I

41:09deal with things like this in district

41:11every day, including this morning. And I

41:13think there's two separate issues here.

41:15There's one regarding the the management

41:17of the property, which I heard a lot

41:18about today, but I also think it's

41:20important to recognize the humanity of

41:23the folks who may be in that area. So,

41:25if we can maybe work with our housing to

41:27get navigators out there because if

41:29there's an opportunity to get those

41:30folks help, let's get them help. Um, so

41:33that way we can engage with them.

41:35>> I have contacted the hot team repeatedly

41:37just I've I actually have many emails

41:40about specific individuals who I've good

41:42morning Sheila like making sure that

41:43I've made friends with some of the

41:44unhoused individuals that are out there.

41:46Um, so the hot team has been involved

41:49down there to some extent.

41:50>> Awesome. Thank you so much. I know that

41:52we have some resources through our

41:54housing department that might be able to

41:55help. And then also as a reminder um 988

41:59I know that we had an onbank on this but

42:01for folks who are in mental health

42:03crisis or who appear to be in a

42:05situation where they need more

42:06supportive resources utilizing that 988

42:09comare crisis center. Again I just I

42:11want to be able to separate the two

42:13issues and I understand your need but

42:15also recognizing the humanity and

42:16dignity of the individuals who might

42:18need a little bit more help.

42:23>> Thank you. Um there are five spots in

42:25public agenda, but I also see that this

42:27is a packed room. Um and I think many

42:30people don't even understand that a

42:31workshop is really simply for the city

42:34council members to get information and

42:37discuss possible policy discussions to

42:40then direct staff uh to craft something

42:43to come back during a city council

42:45meeting because of that. And um I got a

42:48text message from council member

42:49Hohheisel. Um what I would like to uh

42:52move is I move that we open up public

42:54agenda uh for anyone who would like to

42:56speak for only one minute um for the

43:00next few minutes that we have.

43:04>> Second

43:04>> motion second. Any discussion?

43:09Council member Tuttle.

43:10>> I just want to clarify with legal

43:13Jennifer. Can we do that? we have

43:15policies regarding public agenda and how

43:17long people can speak. And so I just I

43:19just want to make sure that we're not

43:20doing anything because I know one time

43:22during a council meeting it was proposed

43:24that we speak let people speak for three

43:26minutes instead of five and we violated

43:28an ordinance. So I just I just want to

43:30make sure we can

43:32>> Thank you. That's a um good question.

43:34The ordinance doesn't prohibit expanding

43:37speakers. I think we're okay to expand,

43:40not restrict rights of speakers. But

43:42thank you for raising the question.

43:45With that, we have a motion and a

43:47second. Any discussion? See none, Madame

43:50Clerk. All those in favor say I.

43:52>> I. All those opposed, same sign.

43:55>> Motion passes. 6. We will now open it up

43:58for public comment for one minute per

44:00individual.

44:01>> George The 2115

44:05South Chiakqua. Uh Mike, thank you.

44:07Thank you, mayor. Um my wife hates this

44:10shirt. That's why I wear it. Um, every

44:13citizen pays a fee on cats in six cities

44:16our size. Too hard to implement in

44:19Witchah. I guess I'm having trouble

44:22finding words. So, my wife had me go get

44:25a cognitive test. I'm glad to declare I

44:27got 30 out of 30, so I aced the test

44:30like Trump. I have been to numerous city

44:33council meetings and brought up a lack

44:36of collecting dog license fees. We are

44:39leaving over $2 million on the table.

44:41The council has no appetite to fully

44:44address this. I was chairperson of a

44:46licensing subcommittee and we put out a

44:49very good product, but police didn't

44:52want to work it. So, tomorrow at the

44:55animal advisory meeting, I'm going to

44:57bring out something that hopefully um it

45:01gets passed by our animal board and then

45:04it's brought to you. So, stay tuned for

45:075:30 tomorrow. Thank you guys for

45:09letting me speak. Would

45:14anyone else from the community like to

45:15speak?

45:24Thank you for this opportunity. Most of

45:26you know me. I'm Darcy Smith. Hope on

45:28the streets love and action. We are

45:30officially a nonprofit as of Friday. But

45:33I also want to say that as sitting here

45:35today listening about how homelessness

45:39downtown is an issue, we need houses.

45:43I go out and I talk to these people and

45:45tell them about the shelters and

45:47everything. We can't do it alone. We

45:49need you citizens to help us do this. It

45:52takes all of us to come together and

45:54love them and show them that we are

45:57there for them.

46:00people saying they're having they're

46:02urinating. Where else you want them to

46:04go?

46:06Businesses won't let them use the

46:07bathrooms.

46:09When we were hot and it's hot outside,

46:12they wouldn't even let them go into jump

46:13start and get water and ice.

46:16I was out here every day in 105 degree

46:18weather for 8 to 10 hours.

46:22Have more compassion for him.

46:25water stations, bathrooms,

46:29services downtown. I'm looking for a

46:31building downtown. Yesterday, I found

46:33one. They want $1,800 a month. I'm a

46:36nonprofit starting out.

46:39Last week, we got $45 to go towards

46:42bread and peanut butter and jelly. Thank

46:44you for allowing us to serve our meal at

46:46Second Light this month. We're looking

46:48into it next month, but dates aren't

46:52going the way that needs to. But we are

46:54there for these people and we are not

46:57going to stop. Homelessness takes all of

47:01us to help every single one of them in

47:03every single one of your guys'

47:04districts.

47:06Thank you.

47:07>> Thank you.

47:08>> Thank you, Darcy.

47:11>> Mayor, if I may, I just want to say,

47:13Darcy, thank you for your hard work and

47:16compassion and congratulations on

47:17getting that 50c3 up and running. And I

47:20agree with you 125% which is why I

47:22wanted to make sure that we separated

47:24the two issues. It's important to talk

47:25about property rights and protecting the

47:27folks who have the right to, you know,

47:30have their properties the way that they

47:31want them to and not be distracted so

47:33that they can do their work. At the same

47:35time, we have to make sure that we

47:37recognize the humanity and the dignity

47:39and the people who need the help. And

47:41I'll say that over and over and over

47:42again. And I think every time we speak

47:44to these issues, we need to be saying it

47:45as well. So, thank you for elevating

47:47that conversation.

47:50Margaret Shabbaz. Um, just along the

47:53same lines, I'm about breaking down

47:55barriers. I know the city is

47:57compassionate and they have jobs.

48:00They have showers and they have vans.

48:04We can break down a barrier for some of

48:06them right there. Can we hire some

48:09unhoused? Can we show the rest of the

48:11city, our compassion city,

48:15to hire some of them? They have skills.

48:18Let's get some of them hired. Therefore,

48:21they're not looking for a section 8.

48:23They're not looking for a voucher. Now,

48:25they have money where they can go and

48:28afford a place to stay. Thank you.

48:34>> Thank you, Margaret.

48:37Would anyone else from the community

48:38like to speak? I see none. With that,

48:43um, thank you for the eight public

48:46speakers that spoke during public

48:47agenda. And for the record, the vote was

48:505 to one to extend that public agenda.

48:54Council member Shepard had stepped out.

48:57>> JB.

48:58>> Yes. And JB was the no vote. All right.

49:01With that, Madame Clerk, can you please

49:03call the next item?

49:06>> Consent agenda items 1 through 16.

49:10Council members, any items to be pulled

49:13from the consent?

49:14>> I'd like to pull 3A.

49:16>> 3A.

49:18Any other items, council members?

49:23>> I see none. With that, I move to approve

49:25the consent agenda without 3A.

49:29>> Second.

49:30>> Motion second. Discussion.

49:32See none. Madame clerk, please open the

49:35All those in favor say I.

49:36>> I.

49:37>> All those opposed, same sign. Motion

49:39passes. 70.

49:41We are now going to speak about consent

49:44agenda item 3A, Woodland Park, North

49:48Park facility lease in district number

49:50six.

49:50>> Thank you, Mayor Reggie, if you could

49:52just um share and highlight um this

49:55item. It's very exciting exciting. We've

49:58been working on it for a long time. So,

49:59I just wanted to give a real high level

50:01um explanation for for what's going on

50:04over there.

50:05>> Sure. Uh so we work uh with uh WSU for

50:09the PPMC to do a community assessment to

50:12look at how the community want to see

50:14the facility be used to meet the need

50:15meet their needs. And through that

50:17process we were able to put together an

50:19assessment that we put out at RFP for

50:21individuals in the community to respond

50:23to. And through that process we had two

50:25respondents the staff selection

50:27committee decided with one particular

50:29entity to be able to occupy the space

50:31moving forward. So, we're looking to

50:34move forward with them taking space at

50:36on the October the 1st with starting

50:38providing services there in the

50:40community.

50:41>> And just for my colleagues in the

50:42community, we're talking about the La

50:43Familia building. So, uh super excited

50:46about that and excited to see what they

50:48can do with it.

50:49>> Thank you, Reggie.

50:50>> I have a couple questions. Uh followup.

50:52Thank you so very much. Um again, this

50:55is over in district number six. Um I was

50:58curious what is the facility's

50:59assessment on that building and how long

51:01this building has been around.

51:03>> Sure. So I know uh we went in with

51:06public works and did an assessment of it

51:08as part of the transition with the

51:10current provider that's there into the

51:12new facility and there's a report that's

51:14there that we can share that shows the

51:15condition of it. I don't have the

51:16details of that here in front of me but

51:19the previous tenant have been in that

51:20location since I believe 2009 or 2012.

51:24uh and part of that was the dynamics of

51:27the community had changed. So there was

51:29uh uh responses from the community to

51:31see how the desk space can be utilized

51:33to better meet the community needs.

51:35>> And according to this um agreement, it

51:38looks like the city will be responsible

51:40for um major capital improvement

51:44uh impro improvements in general. Does

51:47this group understand that everything

51:49else will be under their responsibility?

51:53I think it's outlined uh here, but

51:55that's why I wanted to know if the

51:56facilities assessment had been provided

51:58to them.

51:59>> Yes. Uh we did do a walkthrough with

52:01them to show exactly where we are as far

52:03as condition of the building. And we

52:05have specific things that they're

52:06responsible for as part of that is that

52:08we will do annual inspections to look at

52:10the facility. They will also be

52:12responsible for the day-to-day

52:13operations and maintenance of the

52:14facility. you have to provide uh records

52:17of showing that that maintenance is

52:18being done to make sure that our HVAC

52:20system and other things are being

52:21maintained to the level that we expect

52:23and then if that's not being done then

52:25we determine what expenses they may

52:27incur, what expenses we may incur for

52:29any repairs.

52:30>> I also was um looking at this agreement

52:33and saw how different this is from the

52:35Witchah Boat House agreement. Um, so can

52:38we talk about uh some of the some of the

52:42improvements that have been made in

52:43these contracts to again safeguard

52:46taxpayers and make sure that the tenant

52:48or whoever is uh utilizing that space

52:51knows that they have a responsibility as

52:53well.

52:53>> Yes. So part of that process in the

52:55transition we worked with public works

52:57and utilities and did a walkthrough of

52:58the facility do an assessment of where

53:00they are currently and then put in

53:02parameters of what those specific things

53:03they will be responsible for and what we

53:05will be responsible for as a city and

53:07then as part of that we put in check uh

53:10points to be able to make sure that

53:11we're holding them accountable for those

53:13things on an annual basis. Our agreement

53:15is for one year with four one-year

53:17renewables. And part of that process, we

53:19have to go in and do inspections and

53:21walk through with them [snorts] to make

53:22sure those requirements are being

53:23upheld.

53:24>> Is this similar to the one at Clap Park

53:27with the uh disc golf uh tenant?

53:30>> It is uh once we transition over there,

53:33that was part of it. We wanted to make

53:34sure that any of the residents or anyone

53:36that's using that space goes through a

53:38competitive bid process so we can get

53:39the best value for the city moving

53:41forward. And thank you because uh the

53:43previous tenant was not paying any rent

53:45and this tenant is now going to pay 500

53:48per month in rent. Um and so those

53:51dollars will go back into the park and

53:53wreck fund. Is that accurate?

53:55>> Uh it goes back into the general fund.

53:56Uh but yes, it will be something that's

53:58collected that's different from what the

53:59previous tenant had.

54:01>> I want to make sure that again this is

54:02an older building. It will eventually

54:04have some issues whether it's the roof,

54:07etc. I want to make sure that the

54:09dollars that are being collected go back

54:11into some sort of maintenance fund. Um

54:13because what I've seen so far in three

54:16years in office is that we keep

54:18forgetting that things have wear and

54:21tear and we need to have a kitty fund to

54:24make sure that we are taking care of

54:26those buildings specifically. Um, so I

54:29would instead of seeing it go to the

54:30general fund, I would actually like to

54:32see the $500 go into a a maintenance

54:36fund uh for this building and really

54:38other buildings around uh that are

54:40cityowned.

54:42>> Mayor, I would echo those sentiments and

54:44and I agree. I think I think Park and

54:47Wreck has many facilities that need a

54:49lot of love and if they are collecting

54:52dollars for rent for their facilities, I

54:54would like to see how we can get at

54:55least a percentage of those funds back

54:57into the park and rep budget to address

55:00any deferred maintenance or maintenance

55:02needs for all of their facilities. I

55:04don't think a lot of people know that

55:06even like community services buildings

55:08like the Atwater Neighborhood Resource

55:09Center is managed by Parker Rec in some

55:11regards in some ways. And so I think

55:13having those dollars available to assist

55:15with those needs are important. Um and

55:18and so mayor, I would support you in

55:20that. The second question I have is

55:22Reggie, when you did the walk through,

55:24do we have like um like a checklist?

55:27Like I I remember when I moved into my

55:29apartment, you know, I do my

55:31walkthrough, but there's a document

55:33where I can say like, hey, there's some

55:35wear and tear here, or you know, this

55:37was here when I moved in. and then I'm

55:39responsible for signing it off and then

55:40the property management company signs it

55:42off to that way we have it on record. Do

55:45we do we do that before we lease our

55:47facilities out with the agents that

55:50might be interested in leasing

55:51facilities from us?

55:52>> Well, I can speak specifically for what

55:54we did for Woodland Park. So, parks and

55:56wreck and public work uh team went

55:58through and did a walk through prior to

55:59the actual tenant going in to look at

56:01the condition of it to be able to look

56:03at any things that we need to see that

56:04will be addressed. Then we did a walk

56:06through with them to have them look at

56:08things that they may have concerns with.

56:09And then we compared those two list to

56:11determine what we have as a baseline of

56:13what we're going to do with maintenance

56:14moving forward.

56:15>> And do they sign that or

56:17>> that's part that's part of the uh lease

56:19agreement is outlining what those things

56:21are that they're responsible for.

56:22>> Perfect. I just want to commend you all

56:24for the robust process that you all go

56:27through. I think it's a replicatable

56:29model that I think we should try to see

56:31how we apply that across the board

56:32across city hall. So thank you. And I

56:35echo that same sentiment. And I think on

56:37our green sheet it specifically

56:39highlights Salude Buenestar will be

56:42responsible for all other facility

56:44related costs including routine and

56:46preventative maintenance, code

56:48compliance, utilities, landscaping, snow

56:51removal, graffiti removal, litter

56:54pickup, and repairs beyond reasonable

56:56wear and tear. So again, thank you for

56:59um having this agreement that is much

57:01more solid uh than we've seen in

57:03previous years. I really appreciate

57:05that. Again, you're protecting

57:07taxpayers. And second of all, um I

57:09simply wanted to say that uh salute

57:12masses um this group right here um is

57:16going to focus a lot on

57:18intergenerational

57:20um activities. and the city uh came back

57:23into the AARP age friendly communities

57:27initiative. And so this works really

57:30well with that um goal that this is a

57:32city that welcomes all ages. Um and so I

57:35appreciate that this is uh the new

57:37tenant for that building.

57:40With that, I see no further comments

57:42from the council. We will now open it up

57:45for public comment regarding this

57:47specific item.

57:49I see no one from the community who

57:51would like to speak on this item. We

57:52will now bring it back to the bench in

57:54council member Ballard's district.

57:57>> Thank you, mayor. I move to approve the

57:59lease agreement and authorize the

58:01necessary signatures.

58:02>> Second.

58:03>> Motion second. Discussion. See none. All

58:06those in favor say I. I. All those

58:09opposed, same sign. Motion passes. 70.

58:12Madame clerk, please call the next item.

58:16Board of Bids and Contracts dated

58:18September 21st, 2026.

58:26>> Morning, Mayor [clears throat] and City

58:28Council, Josh Lober, Department of

58:29Finance. Uh, the board of bids and

58:31contracts convened yesterday, September

58:3321st, 2026 for 12 items for your

58:36consideration. We have for engineering

58:39the water distribution system sanitary

58:41sewer improvements to serve Bridger at

58:43central edition phase 2 for Mcola

58:46excavation incorporated for an aggregate

58:48bid total of $467,850.

58:54We have the water distribution system,

58:57sanitary sewer, paving and storm water

58:59drain to serve Pier Point acres, second

59:02edition for Pearson Construction LLC

59:06in the amount of $428,451.85.

59:12For purchasing, we have the RIP wrap 5x9

59:1518inch and 24 in contract rejecting all

59:17bids.

59:19We have the on call emergency equipment

59:21outfitting service for city vehicles

59:24recommending the firm's Midwest Truck

59:26Equipment Incorporated and Superior

59:28Emergency Response Vehicles LLC for

59:30fixed rates for a contract term of one

59:32year with two one-year options to renew.

59:35We have the NEOGV Human Resource and

59:37Application Tracking and Vetting System

59:39Renewal for Government Jobs Incorporated

59:42for a three-year aggregate total of

59:44$528,214.58.

59:49We have the scrap metal contract change

59:51order for all metal recycling. We're

59:52requesting your authorization to extend

59:54the contract six months ending March

59:5631st, 2027 to allow us to publish an RFP

59:59process.

1:00:01We have the special waste disposal

1:00:02facility contract change order for waste

1:00:04connections of Kansas Incorporated

1:00:06requesting our authorization to extend

1:00:08to three months while we facilitate an

1:00:09RFP process.

1:00:11>> [snorts]

1:00:11>> And we have the telescoping steel sign

1:00:13post systems change order for centerline

1:00:16supply for an amended amount of 46,448

1:00:20estimated annually per year. And we have

1:00:23the scattera system maintenance contract

1:00:26change order for re Pedraati company

1:00:29incorporated requesting your

1:00:30authorization to extend the contract

1:00:32three months while we have the incumbent

1:00:34change over to a new provider. [snorts]

1:00:36And we had the solidification and

1:00:38disposal of non-hazardous liquid waste

1:00:40change order contract for ready

1:00:43industries incorporated for requesting

1:00:45authorization of three months while we

1:00:47facilitate a new procurement bid

1:00:49process.

1:00:50And [snorts] we have the citizen

1:00:52engagement survey contract change order

1:00:54for policy confluence incorporated doing

1:00:57business as PCO in the amount of $50,250

1:01:01requesting your authorization to extend

1:01:02our 2022 contract for one year. [snorts]

1:01:06And for airport, we have the vehicle

1:01:08movement area transmitters for you,

1:01:11AvonX Corporation for base bid with

1:01:14options one through six of 268,69524.

1:01:21This is how to become a vendor with the

1:01:22city. This is our purchasing calendar of

1:01:25small business resource partner events

1:01:27that the city's hosting or participating

1:01:29in. And this is our list of open public

1:01:32opportunities out on the street today.

1:01:35and I'd be happy to try to answer your

1:01:36questions and recommend your approval.

1:01:41>> Thank you, Josh. Questions for staff?

1:01:44Uh, only one. Can you go back to slide

1:01:46number five?

1:01:47>> Sure.

1:01:48>> This is a reject all bids.

1:01:50>> Yes.

1:01:51>> Can you explain this one?

1:01:52>> Absolutely. So, city staff facilitated a

1:01:54procurement process where we had a

1:01:57vendor um respond uh during contract

1:02:00negotiations. the u negotiations broke

1:02:03down because the vendor requested

1:02:05alternative payment method deliveries uh

1:02:07delivery methods, excuse me. Um

1:02:09including prepayment, paying the

1:02:12supplier. That was something I was not

1:02:13comfortable with. I shut it down. So, we

1:02:15will be reviewing um going back out uh

1:02:18possibly doing what's called a um

1:02:20purchase order agreement where we just

1:02:22have a purchase standing purchase order

1:02:24on file for the department's needs. um

1:02:26as the on on call fixed rates for a

1:02:29contract did not work out.

1:02:33>> Thank you, Josh. I see no further

1:02:36questions for Josh. With that, I will

1:02:39approve and move the board of bids and

1:02:41contracts dated September 21st, 2026.

1:02:44>> Second.

1:02:45>> Motion second. Discussion. See none. All

1:02:48those in favor say I. I. All those

1:02:50opposed, same sign. Motion passes 70.

1:02:54Madame clerk, please call the next item.

1:02:57Council member agenda to approve to

1:03:00exceed the gift limit established by the

1:03:02ethics ordinance for Mayor Woo to accept

1:03:05travel and expenses to attend the 2026

1:03:09Heartland Summit and Heartland

1:03:11Leadership Forum in Bentonville,

1:03:13Arkansas September 29th through October

1:03:161st, 2026 for the purpose of

1:03:19representing the city of Witchah and

1:03:22engaging with leaders in the heartland.

1:03:24The summit is hosted by the nonprofit

1:03:27Heartland Forward for the purpose of

1:03:29education, collaboration, professional

1:03:32development. The summit serves as a

1:03:34platform for sharing best practices,

1:03:36fostering cross- sector collaboration to

1:03:39inspire investment in midsize cities.

1:03:42The convening

1:03:44will bring together members of the

1:03:46Heartland Mayor's Network, Hartland AI

1:03:49Caucus, Hartland Health Caucus, State

1:03:52Broadband Offices, and leaders from

1:03:55business, philanthrop philanthropy,

1:03:58excuse me, education and public policy

1:04:01to examine how the Heartland can lead

1:04:03the next era of economic growth. The

1:04:06estimated gift amount for program

1:04:08travel, hotel, and meals is $1,710.

1:04:13There will be no expense to the city.

1:04:18>> I move to approve and [snorts] exceed

1:04:20the gift limit.

1:04:21>> Second.

1:04:22>> Motion second. Discussion. See none. All

1:04:25those in favor say I. I. All those

1:04:27opposed, same sign. Motion passes. 70.

1:04:31Madame clerk, please call the next item.

1:04:34to approve to exceed the gift limit

1:04:36established by the ethics ordinance for

1:04:38Mayor Woo to accept travel and expenses

1:04:41to attend the Aspen Ideas Economy Forum

1:04:44for community leaders from government,

1:04:46business, philanthropy, academia

1:04:51and civil society in Tulsa, Oklahoma,

1:04:54October 13th through the 14th, 2026 for

1:04:57the purpose of representing the city and

1:04:59engaging in topics of growing the

1:05:02economy. The Aspen Ideas Economy is

1:05:04hosted by the Aspen Institute for the

1:05:07purpose of equipping local leaders to

1:05:10better serve their communities by

1:05:12participating and attending the mayor's

1:05:14roundt. The estimated gift amount for

1:05:18program travel, hotel, and meals is

1:05:201,200.

1:05:21There will be no expense to the city.

1:05:24>> I move to approve that travel and

1:05:26approve the exceeding of the gift limit.

1:05:29>> Second.

1:05:29>> Motion second. Discussion. See none. All

1:05:32those in favor say I. I. All those

1:05:34opposed, same sign. Motion passes. 70.

1:05:38Madame clerk, please call the next item.

1:05:40>> Council member, appointments and

1:05:42comments.

1:05:44>> No appointments comments.

1:05:45>> Any appointments? Council members,

1:05:47>> I have one appointment.

1:05:49>> I would like to appoint Matthew I'm

1:05:51sorry, I'm going to get your name wrong.

1:05:54Al Jalter

1:05:56for district advisory board.

1:05:59>> Second.

1:06:01Motion [snorts] second. Discussion.

1:06:03Seeing none. All those in favor say I.

1:06:05I. All those opposed, same sign. Motion

1:06:08passes. 70. Council member comments.

1:06:11>> I have one. Um like thanks city manager

1:06:15for getting a sign up for free parking

1:06:18on uh for our lots. However, it's well

1:06:20hidden behind a behind a tree. You can't

1:06:23see it. I have asked him this morning if

1:06:25he we can put those on the signs, the

1:06:28parking signs as you enter the parking

1:06:31lots at the three locations. So, he

1:06:34doesn't see any reason we can do that.

1:06:36So, I will ask city staff to if they can

1:06:38do that to have the option of free

1:06:40parking uh to the west. So, uh if we can

1:06:45get that done, I appreciate it.

1:06:49>> Thank you. Um you sure don't want to

1:06:50just cut the tree down?

1:06:54Sorry. Um, just like to get Maggie

1:06:58going. Um, I'd like to recognize uh

1:07:00Brock Booker, the new District Three um,

1:07:04city council or school board member. I'm

1:07:07sorry.

1:07:07>> For real?

1:07:08>> Yeah. I'm I'm on my way out quick here.

1:07:10So, um, thank you for, uh, showing up

1:07:13again today, Brock, and good luck in the

1:07:15future, and I look forward to working

1:07:17with you.

1:07:21I see no further comments. I'm just

1:07:23going to say uh if Reggie is still here,

1:07:26I just wanted to say thank you to your

1:07:27entire team at Park and Recreation for

1:07:30organizing the last three Open Street

1:07:32ICTs this year uh on Sunday. It was very

1:07:36well attended on Douglas and we're very

1:07:38appreciative of the entire staff, all

1:07:40the sponsors and the vendors and

1:07:42everyone who participated.

1:07:44>> I'd just like to add to that. I was also

1:07:46going to thank Reggie and Park and Reck

1:07:47and we we've had chat since but also

1:07:50thanks to public works, thanks to

1:07:51Witchaw Police Department and Witchaw

1:07:53Fire Department who also play a big role

1:07:56in making sure that the event is

1:07:58successful and keep everyone safe.

1:08:02>> With that, I see no further comments. I

1:08:04move to adjourn this meeting.

1:08:06>> Second.

1:08:07>> Motion second. Discussion seeing none.

1:08:10Mo uh all those in favor say I. I. All

1:08:12those opposed, same sign. Motion passes

1:08:1570. We adjourn at 10:11. We will now

1:08:18begin the workshop. City Manager Mars.

1:08:21>> Thank you, Mayor and Council members. We

1:08:23have a couple items for you today. Um

1:08:26we're going to rearrange our uh order

1:08:29today and we're going to start out with

1:08:30our legislative update. You have

1:08:32information in your packet in front of

1:08:34you as council members and some

1:08:36information was left at the table as

1:08:37people came in to the meeting room

1:08:39today. So, I'm going invite uh Jim Jonas

1:08:42to come up and then we'll turn it over

1:08:43to Kimberly Swatty. But I do want to

1:08:45highlight uh certainly from my

1:08:47perspective and for you as council

1:08:49members knowing we're going to highlight

1:08:51this is an election year that we will

1:08:53have a change no matter what in Topeka

1:08:56and our legislative leaders and our

1:08:58governor's office. um try to make sure

1:09:01that we as a city of Witchaw get ahead

1:09:04of that and try to accelerate our

1:09:06legislative discussions so that we can

1:09:09have some of our information to our

1:09:12newly elected legislators before they

1:09:14start the session in January. And so

1:09:17that's part of our goal is to make sure

1:09:19that you have some of the topics that we

1:09:21think will be important for us to

1:09:23advocate for in the legislative session

1:09:25in January, but to make sure we're

1:09:27engaging with our legislators uh even in

1:09:30December, if not November. And so I'll

1:09:32now ask Jim Jonas to uh do the

1:09:35introductions.

1:09:36>> City Manager, you took uh every one of

1:09:38my bullet points. I I I will not uh

1:09:41belabor it, but I I do want to uh

1:09:44acknowledge that that all of us any you

1:09:46cannot turn the television on these days

1:09:49uh without seeing one of those ads. We

1:09:50are in political silly season

1:09:53officially. The countdown's begun. Uh

1:09:56stay away from TVs and radios and

1:09:58billboards as best you can. Uh but the

1:10:01manager's right. uh this uh this time of

1:10:04year uh particularly with this election

1:10:06and with the consequences the uh new

1:10:09legislature could have uh it's important

1:10:11that we start getting ahead of uh uh

1:10:14what the legislature may get themselves

1:10:17into uh this coming session. So

1:10:21Kimberly's here to give us a breakdown

1:10:23as much of a watch list as it is an

1:10:26agenda. Uh we've had the the be the

1:10:29beginning conversations with uh with

1:10:31council about what's on their mind and

1:10:33what they want to see. Kimberly is going

1:10:35to really try to set us up to understand

1:10:38what are our risks, what are our

1:10:40opportunities, where can we uh where

1:10:43should we be most focused going into uh

1:10:46January session. So I won't belabor it.

1:10:49Kimberly, floor is yours.

1:10:59Okay. Good morning, Madame Mayor and

1:11:02Council. I appreciate the opportunity to

1:11:04be before uh you all this morning. And

1:11:06again, as Jim and as the city manager

1:11:09spoke about this, the information that's

1:11:11put before you this morning is really a

1:11:14frame for us to begin our conversations

1:11:16about what we want our legislative

1:11:18agenda to look like. Um, but first

1:11:21before we do that, I just want to take a

1:11:22moment to to look backward because there

1:11:25were things that we had on our

1:11:27legislative agenda last session and we

1:11:29were very successful in accomplishing

1:11:32virtually all of those goals. And so,

1:11:34just one moment to pause uh on behalf of

1:11:37Gary Jansen and and the public uh works

1:11:40team, we really were focused on the

1:11:42water reuse issue. And so we did pass

1:11:45legislation this last session that

1:11:47pushes KDH along in making those water

1:11:50reuse regulations and we continue to

1:11:52hold um them accountable to getting

1:11:55those regulations developed and advanced

1:11:57so we can begin to expand our water

1:12:00resource uh supplies. Uh we also

1:12:03actually um passed legislation allowing

1:12:05for the golf carts to move along on the

1:12:07city sidewalks. And most notably, we

1:12:10also um secured an additional $35

1:12:13million of um state general fund funding

1:12:16for the water plant. Josh, as you know,

1:12:19serves on the statewide water task

1:12:21force, which I mean Josh is my business

1:12:23partner and husband, but so he is on

1:12:25that water task force and they are

1:12:27working to develop a long-term and a

1:12:29near-term plan for um both water quality

1:12:33and quantity in the state of Kansas.

1:12:34That's an incredibly important

1:12:36conversation for the city of Witchah. Uh

1:12:38we defeated legislation that enacted a

1:12:41new city county uh sales tax formula

1:12:43that had a nearly $1 million immediate

1:12:46financial impact to the city. Uh and

1:12:48then we engaged mightily on uh Senate

1:12:51Bill 418, which is the buy housing bill,

1:12:54in order to make sure that the bill's

1:12:56language um was in fact workable for

1:12:58cities and did in fact encourage

1:13:01affordable housing. Uh there were

1:13:03several other um elements and bills that

1:13:06we engaged in, but I wanted to make sure

1:13:08that we were definitely noting those

1:13:10issues. We were in very uh very involved

1:13:12in some of the rent qualification

1:13:14preeemption bill, um the contingency fee

1:13:17issues for legal contracts, and then uh

1:13:20the consequential damage and public

1:13:22nuisance debates uh as well. So just

1:13:25want to highlight those issues. we were

1:13:27we were involved in a lot of issues

1:13:29across the board. And so the document

1:13:32that you have before you is really, you

1:13:36know, as I as we sit back and we look

1:13:39regardless of who takes office, we've

1:13:43highlighted um on the first page, you

1:13:46know, four buckets of topics, but really

1:13:49on the ensuing pages, there are 16

1:13:53topics for your consideration. and and

1:13:55actually I know it's only bulleted out

1:13:57to 15, but there's actually 8A and 8B

1:14:00which are separate topics even though

1:14:02they are absolutely in the same vein. So

1:14:04that's how we get to the 16. But I want

1:14:07to take a moment and just say that um

1:14:10the the four topics on the front we're

1:14:12going to spend the most time but we're

1:14:14going to spend the most time discussing

1:14:15this morning. But the 16 topics,

1:14:17regardless of who is in office, these

1:14:20topics in some form or fashion will be

1:14:24major issues this session. Um,

1:14:28again, depending on who is in office,

1:14:31we'll stress how much time we spend on

1:14:35this bucket of issues or this bucket of

1:14:38issues. And then also, we will

1:14:40potentially see uh we are going to see

1:14:43new leadership in the House. we are

1:14:45potentially going to see new leadership

1:14:46in the Senate as well and that will come

1:14:50with a kind of a new stress on and not

1:14:53stress in a negative way but just like

1:14:55stressing the issues uh any number of

1:14:58these kind of 16 topics. So, as you can

1:15:00see, all 16 have sub bullets um that we

1:15:08will be engaged in that will impact all

1:15:11city operations and the ability for the

1:15:14city to operate and address community

1:15:16needs as it best see sees fit. Um, so

1:15:20focusing on the top four, and I do want

1:15:23this, I do want you to interject with

1:15:24questions at any time, but focusing on

1:15:26the top four, regardless of who you talk

1:15:30to, regardless of candidate, these are

1:15:33the these are the issues. So, property

1:15:36tax relief, what that looks like,

1:15:39property valuation reform. So the

1:15:42challenge is of course the state only

1:15:44levies you know 20 mills 20% essentially

1:15:47of the the whole property tax formula

1:15:51and the rest is is left to the locals.

1:15:54And so the only way the legislature can

1:15:56really address property tax relief is to

1:15:59either reduce or eliminate the 20 mills

1:16:03or to dictate to local government. Those

1:16:06are your two options. So, and and the um

1:16:10candidates have different perspectives

1:16:12on kind of both of those. So, it'll be

1:16:15interesting to see which combination of

1:16:17issues we really focus on depending on

1:16:20who is elected. Uh but one thing I do

1:16:22want to note is the use of tax

1:16:24incentives for economic development will

1:16:26absolutely be part of that conversation.

1:16:31um the state budget and revenue growth

1:16:33through through 2030. You know, the

1:16:36state is projected to have a sizable

1:16:38budget deficit uh in the 2029 2030 time

1:16:41frame. Although we are seeing some of

1:16:44our receipts come back in a fairly more

1:16:47positive way and that that could push

1:16:49those numbers out. We have to wait for

1:16:50the consensus revenue estimates in

1:16:52November to see if we're looking in a

1:16:552029 budget deficit or 2030. and it's

1:16:58still projected to be very sizable.

1:17:01That will bleed down onto local

1:17:04government and uh we could see some

1:17:07additional programmatic cuts uh to

1:17:10statewide programs that then those

1:17:12responsibilities are pushed down to the

1:17:14local units of government. Um, I, you

1:17:16know, think back on the 20, uh, 2009,200

1:17:20when the state was in a real budget

1:17:22situation after the 2008 fiscal crisis

1:17:24and Josh was a secretary and there were

1:17:27a lot of really important state programs

1:17:30the department of a ran that the

1:17:32department of a had to cut and if the

1:17:35cities wanted to continue to have, you

1:17:37know, strong inspections, food safety,

1:17:39so on and so forth, that the cities

1:17:41would have to pick up that slack um

1:17:43because the state couldn't do it. So,

1:17:46are when do we find ourselves in that

1:17:48time period? Again, um local government

1:17:51versus state preeemption. This is a a

1:17:53very large conversation that we're

1:17:55having. Um working very closely with Mr.

1:17:57Jansen and his team as it relates to

1:18:00conversation about rightway and

1:18:02franchise fees and and creating some

1:18:05sort of parody between our broadband

1:18:07providers and the cable providers and

1:18:09telecom providers that pay franchise

1:18:10versus broadband that that don't. And so

1:18:14the question is if we move to advance

1:18:17legislation that creates parody between

1:18:19those forms of technology so everyone's

1:18:21paying something to the state for the or

1:18:24into the city for the use of the public

1:18:25rightway that's mandated by the state

1:18:28but then we have to make sure that we

1:18:31are retaining local controls over how

1:18:34our rideway is being utilized and

1:18:36inspected and permitted. So a lot of

1:18:38conversation there. Um the city county

1:18:41uh sales tax formula absolutely going to

1:18:43be out there again this coming

1:18:45legislative session. I know there are

1:18:47several cities within the south central

1:18:49area and then northeast um like in the

1:18:52Johnson County area that are trying to

1:18:54work on a a formula. I know Witchah

1:18:56State has been engaged in that

1:18:58conversation as well. But anything that

1:19:00comes with an immediate impact of more

1:19:02than a million dollars or more to the

1:19:04city feels like a non-starter, not a

1:19:06place to start from. So what what will

1:19:10that look like? And um at this time the

1:19:13state may mandate again what that

1:19:15formula change is. So um actually had a

1:19:19really interesting conversation recently

1:19:21with the Senate majority leader. Uh we

1:19:23were talking with a bunch of city clerks

1:19:25about the

1:19:28influx of Kora requests that are coming

1:19:31also not only from citizens but from AI

1:19:34bots or they are AI requests. they are

1:19:37AI generated requests and so how does

1:19:40the legislature get a handle on that and

1:19:43making sure that you know city staff

1:19:45isn't literally drowning in in their

1:19:48time in responding to hundreds and

1:19:50hundreds of core requests that are being

1:19:52generated by AI and sometimes submitted

1:19:55by someone locally but oftentimes not so

1:19:59that's we know that that's going to be a

1:20:01large issue um fire code changes fire

1:20:05code is around 69 94 pages long. We're

1:20:08looking at updating that fire code or

1:20:10the state and the fire marshall are

1:20:11looking at updating that fire code. Uh

1:20:14the governor has created a task force

1:20:16which actually only met for a day, but

1:20:19um they are looking at significant

1:20:21upgrades to that code. So what do those

1:20:23look like? Uh the document is very

1:20:26redlined. So it almost feels like

1:20:28there's more red lines um and

1:20:30strikethroughs than existing text when

1:20:33reading it. So it's a little

1:20:34mind-numbing, but that's going to be a

1:20:35big issue. And these are really

1:20:36important, you know, very in the weeds

1:20:39conversations that we're going to be a

1:20:40part of. And then we talk a little bit

1:20:43also about water quality, quantity, and

1:20:45project funding. So,

1:20:46>> can I go back to number three, local

1:20:48government versus state preeemption,

1:20:50please? Uh, you left out unsheltered

1:20:52cost impact and homebased business

1:20:54regulations, but um unsheltered costs.

1:20:57Um what we have seen here in Witchah,

1:20:59yes we have individuals who in our own

1:21:02community are facing homelessness, but

1:21:05we have also seen individuals that are

1:21:07not from Witchah facing homelessness

1:21:10coming into Witchah. Um can you talk

1:21:13about what um the two candidates I guess

1:21:16are are they emphasizing any of the

1:21:19costs that the city of Witchaw has to

1:21:21bear, the taxpayers of Witchaw having to

1:21:24bear?

1:21:25>> No. Thank you, Madame Mayor, for that

1:21:26question. And I intentionally um I don't

1:21:28want anyone to think that I wasn't going

1:21:30to address those two topics. Wanted to

1:21:32to spend a little bit more time on them

1:21:34toward uh in in the larger document.

1:21:38That is actually it's it's interesting.

1:21:41two two sessions ago and three sessions

1:21:43ago, this was a topic that really a lot

1:21:46of people were talking about, policy

1:21:48makers were talking about um and and

1:21:50particularly as um and shelters

1:21:52individuals were, you know, coming to

1:21:54larger communities from smaller areas or

1:21:57other states and that um is there's not

1:22:01been as much talk about that particular

1:22:04element um in recent years. Not to say

1:22:07that we're not going to spend time

1:22:09discussing it because

1:22:13it continues to be a very significant

1:22:15issue, but I

1:22:18perhaps have just not been at the right

1:22:19events, but I've not heard either

1:22:22candidate thus far speak specifically to

1:22:24that issue.

1:22:28And sorry, as a followup, um you talked

1:22:30about how various individuals are

1:22:33stressing specific topics, um and that

1:22:36will really be shaped come November, but

1:22:40which issues are being stressed by

1:22:42either the two candidates or Senate and

1:22:46and House?

1:22:47>> Absolutely.

1:22:48So, uh, for example, um, let me make

1:22:53sure I've got the two the two candidates

1:22:57for governor, not speaking on behalf of

1:22:59either of them, of course, um, have a

1:23:02different perspective on how we're

1:23:03handling property tax, for example. And

1:23:06so, um, you know, one probably is more

1:23:09focused on, you know, cutting and and

1:23:12cutting the state's contribution.

1:23:15um that would help bring down the mill

1:23:19um from a local standpoint. The other is

1:23:23definitely focused on making sure

1:23:25there's quality of life and

1:23:27affordability components while

1:23:29maintaining

1:23:31um you know a strong property tax base.

1:23:35So trying not to speak uh on either of

1:23:38theirs behalf, but to just identify that

1:23:41they're coming they're looking at it

1:23:42from a different perspective. Um, to

1:23:46that end, I think that that's I've seen

1:23:49both of them talk about the economic

1:23:51development incentives and I know that

1:23:53the Senate there are some leaders in the

1:23:55Senate that are very keen to reduce many

1:23:59of the economic development tools and

1:24:01incentives that exist um like peak and

1:24:04hip and star bonds. Um, we know that

1:24:07many of the sales tax exemptions or that

1:24:11are granted or property tax exemptions

1:24:13that are granted are going to be uh

1:24:15really examined and pushed hard on this

1:24:17legislative session. So, we we can see

1:24:19that. Um, we also know that the K12

1:24:24finance formula will expire in this this

1:24:28year. So, that formula will have to be

1:24:31redone. And in the process of doing

1:24:34that, again, you'll see um different

1:24:39groups that will have kind of different

1:24:41perspectives and different priorities in

1:24:43how it is that we go about funding that.

1:24:46So, there are uh some individuals that

1:24:49are talking about judicial reform,

1:24:52not really adhering to the state supreme

1:24:54court's ruling related to K12 education.

1:24:58Is is that the path? And so that

1:25:00provides a whole different type of

1:25:02school finance, how you build that

1:25:04formula or are we still focusing on the

1:25:07state supreme court ruling and and

1:25:09meeting those thresholds. So lot of a

1:25:12lot of um unknowns there that I think

1:25:14will begin to answer after November. But

1:25:18those are hopefully a couple examples.

1:25:21>> And sorry, one more question. What about

1:25:23the length of time of um the session

1:25:27this year versus other years? Oh, I'm so

1:25:29glad you asked that. Uh, there are a lot

1:25:31of us that work around the state

1:25:33legislative process that

1:25:35>> felt that last legislative session, we

1:25:38just didn't there was there was hardly a

1:25:41moment to even begin to have a

1:25:43conversation with anyone to really spend

1:25:48a handful of minutes talking about

1:25:50outrageously heady and consequential

1:25:52topics. the speed at which the session

1:25:55moved. Um, and I think that that was

1:25:59heard loud and clear. It also impacted

1:26:02our ability to um be able to review and

1:26:05vet bills and for legislators to review

1:26:07and cra craft bills and have them

1:26:09introduced or amendments. All of that

1:26:11was really compressed and so a lot was

1:26:14left hanging out to dry if you will. Uh

1:26:18we believe that we are going to return

1:26:20to a standard a much more standard

1:26:23session. Go in we will go in the um

1:26:25second Monday of January work all the

1:26:28way through April May. We'll have a

1:26:31little bit of a break there in April as

1:26:32they do the consensus revenue estimates

1:26:34but then we'll work through that May

1:26:36time period. So these are I I would I've

1:26:40suggested to many and did outline this

1:26:42in the document that I believe this is

1:26:45probably one of the most consequential

1:26:46sessions that we've seen in the modern

1:26:49era and in many cases going back clear

1:26:52back to the 1960s. We have um

1:26:57there's just a lot of change and the

1:27:00deck chairs are probably going to move

1:27:01in a way that we've not seen in a long

1:27:04time. And and so we are going to need

1:27:07every ounce, every minute of all of

1:27:09those days in order to really get

1:27:11through the agendas that the different

1:27:14um candidates are putting forward and

1:27:15different members of leadership are

1:27:17interested in.

1:27:18>> Yeah. Council member,

1:27:20>> thank you. Um, is there any discussion

1:27:22about more targeted property tax relief

1:27:25such as uh the golden years um

1:27:28stabilization, I guess you would call

1:27:30it, or anything along those lines?

1:27:33>> No, I think that's a great question.

1:27:34There are definitely legislators that

1:27:37are very interested in specific elements

1:27:39of property tax relief for seniors, for

1:27:41veterans, um,

1:27:43increasing the the threshold that can be

1:27:46property tax exempt. I think all of

1:27:48those elements as they typically do

1:27:50become part of a larger bill. Uh but you

1:27:54know, maybe we can get get back to a

1:27:55place where we can focus on just you

1:27:57know specific um elements of that

1:27:59property tax discussion as opposed to

1:28:02merging them all into one big cake and

1:28:04seeing where we are at the end.

1:28:06>> Thank you.

1:28:10>> What other questions can I answer for

1:28:12anyone?

1:28:13>> Are are they are you talking the entire

1:28:15legislative? I was saving some

1:28:16questions.

1:28:18>> Oh,

1:28:18>> so are you talking just the first four

1:28:20or

1:28:20>> any of them?

1:28:22>> Okay. I just um just like to reiterate

1:28:25some support u for looking at LITC

1:28:28credits and how those are awarded. I

1:28:29know that's the Kansas Housing

1:28:32Corporation. And so it's separate from

1:28:33the legislature, but um that's

1:28:36definitely something I think we see a

1:28:38barrier for getting um multiple

1:28:42um projects off the ground here in

1:28:44Witchah because of some of the the

1:28:46barriers in place there. Um I do hear on

1:28:49behalf of some of our museums such as

1:28:51Cow Town about the film tax credits. I

1:28:54don't know if there's um any appetite

1:28:57for that, but that could be something

1:28:58that definitely uh helps a lot of um

1:29:03museums and businesses and commerce here

1:29:05in the city. Um some changes with the

1:29:09Department of Agriculture that would

1:29:10help ease the burden on our animal

1:29:12shelter. Um that's contributing to our

1:29:16high kill rate. um that we can't move

1:29:19some animals out without um a lengthy

1:29:22process. I think like a six week waiting

1:29:24period there. Um and then as always,

1:29:27Medicaid expansion I support. So just

1:29:29putting that out there.

1:29:34>> Kimberly, I told you I'd give you an

1:29:36update. Um and I've talked to Jim about

1:29:38this just briefly, but item number nine

1:29:40regarding child care reform is something

1:29:42that I've been passionately work on. I

1:29:44know others do care as well. Um, and one

1:29:46of the items is we've we're talking with

1:29:48folks at the state is about a tri share

1:29:51model. Michigan has adopted this where

1:29:53an employee pays a third, an employer

1:29:56pays a third, and the state pays a third

1:29:58of child care to help with workforce

1:30:00shortages. And I'm happy to announce

1:30:02that the workforce alliance with support

1:30:05of our child care workforce coalition

1:30:08has received $200,000 in funding to do a

1:30:12pilot tri share program. So, it will be

1:30:15we'll be see they'll be seeking out 15

1:30:18potential employers. It'll be focused on

1:30:20Ellis families um and hopefully to have

1:30:2460 different participants. But the great

1:30:27news not only for the funding for the

1:30:28workforce alliance and for our

1:30:30community, but we hope then the goal was

1:30:33that this will be a pilot program for

1:30:35the state of Kansas that now we will

1:30:37have data and information to be able to

1:30:40take to the state legislature for our

1:30:42case for this to be a tri share program

1:30:44for the state of Kansas and this will

1:30:47help address workforce and economic

1:30:49development needs in our community. So

1:30:51great job to the workforce alliance and

1:30:53look forward to continue to work with

1:30:55them on child care issues.

1:30:56>> That's wonderful. Congratulations.

1:31:01I just wanted to also note in this

1:31:03document um I broke it out into segment.

1:31:06So there's your projected top four

1:31:08topics on the front page and then there

1:31:10are three different buckets if you will

1:31:13of talk of topics. So segment A those

1:31:16topics are directly going to impact the

1:31:19city regard you know in in a variety of

1:31:22different ways they are going to

1:31:23directly impact the city. Uh segment B

1:31:26topics they will impact city functions

1:31:29um sometimes directly sometimes

1:31:30indirectly and then segment C topics are

1:31:33just indirect impact on city functions.

1:31:36So I didn't want anyone to walk away

1:31:38thinking that you know this was in

1:31:39numerical order like a prioritization

1:31:41document. it was just there are three

1:31:43different buckets and here are the

1:31:45issues um that we see in those

1:31:48particular buckets. So uh we will

1:31:52continue to meet with the balance of the

1:31:54council. Uh we are continuing to work

1:31:56with staff and whatnot to to really

1:31:59flesh out that agenda. As I mentioned,

1:32:02these are the this is what we see coming

1:32:06and then we can really uh specify what

1:32:09we want to see as a the city of Witchah

1:32:12advancing on behalf of uh the community

1:32:14as it relates to the legislature.

1:32:16>> I just have a couple of questions for

1:32:18you and are you recommending that we

1:32:21focus on four or I I guess what what's

1:32:25the precedence? Do we typically only

1:32:27choose a certain amount? Obviously, we

1:32:29can't do everything. I think that might

1:32:31be a little in of an ineffective

1:32:33strategy. So,

1:32:36>> um, so I wanted to that I defer to you

1:32:39all honestly and and to the manager and

1:32:42how you want to develop that. Um, that's

1:32:44why I've tried to put forward to you

1:32:47what we really think are going to be

1:32:49kind of the broad table of issues and

1:32:51then you can begin to winnow that down.

1:32:54But those four that are on the front,

1:32:58that's going to have the most direct

1:32:59impact on the city. I think all of the

1:33:02other issues can stem from those four.

1:33:05>> Okay. And if I may, um I would say

1:33:08council, as you're evaluating this, part

1:33:11of our approach is to work with our

1:33:13partners from the county as well as the

1:33:16chamber and other uh business interests

1:33:19in the community. And so if you want to

1:33:21focus on items that you think have a

1:33:24broader collaborative

1:33:27um lobbying effort I think is a focus. I

1:33:30would suggest as we have in here as Miss

1:33:33Wat's outlined 15 16 items on here

1:33:37looking at the first by numeric um what

1:33:41is truly impactful for the city is

1:33:44through number six that we focus on

1:33:47those flesh those out a little bit but

1:33:49then see on the other ones if we're

1:33:52working with the school system there's

1:33:53some issues in there for the school as a

1:33:55partner if there are a couple others in

1:33:57the remaining six or seven that we want

1:34:01to elevate. But I think if we come up

1:34:03with our city, but also recognizing we

1:34:06have some partners who will have some

1:34:08similar interests on property tax relief

1:34:10and other things, how we can expand our

1:34:12coalition of um different groups within

1:34:15the Witchaw area who can help us make

1:34:18our point to our legislators would be

1:34:20how I think we can structure this.

1:34:22>> Thank you, city manager. Would we have

1:34:25an opportunity at an onbunk to maybe

1:34:28have these conversations? I don't know

1:34:29when the next try gov meeting is.

1:34:32>> We will not have an onbunk until after

1:34:35the election. We may have one more in

1:34:38December, so before the end of the year.

1:34:41So definitely that would be part of um

1:34:42the conversation. Our intention is to

1:34:46have some type of legislative gathering,

1:34:50breakfast, whatever in December. And so

1:34:52trying to see if we can get our

1:34:53legislative focus finalized, I would say

1:34:56by the end of November. Okay. Um, and

1:34:59what would be helpful for me then as it

1:35:02relates to a lot of these topics, seeing

1:35:04seeing some numbers on how it actually

1:35:07impacts our our people here in Witchah.

1:35:10Um, particularly like even looking at

1:35:13the K through2 school finance. Uh, my

1:35:15understanding is that we are adequately

1:35:18uh funding general education, but

1:35:20there's a a major conversation about

1:35:22fully funding special education. And so

1:35:24really looking at what the impact and

1:35:26implication on that is as well as um I

1:35:29saw there was uh number 10 workforce

1:35:31devel workforce development in higher

1:35:33education. I know Witchaw State that

1:35:35falls in District 1. There was an

1:35:37article recently that they were denied

1:35:39the opportunity to provide instate

1:35:41tuition for undocumented or DACA

1:35:43recipients. So you know what impact does

1:35:45that have on workforce development?

1:35:47That's a major concern for me,

1:35:49especially as we look at the economic

1:35:51outlook of becoming a majority minority

1:35:53state. Um, not saying that everybody

1:35:55that is a part of a particular

1:35:57population is undocumented, but a

1:35:59substantial amount. So, what does that

1:36:01look like uh as we look at the impact

1:36:03that it has on our workforce and

1:36:04economic development? And then the same

1:36:07for um number five, I I'd be curious

1:36:10what these candidates perception is on

1:36:12sales tax exemptions. are they trying to

1:36:15eliminate that and what that does to our

1:36:17nonprofit sector. I know that many of

1:36:19them come to us at the local level for

1:36:21sales tax exemptions and they need those

1:36:23exemptions from the state as well. We

1:36:25heard from a nonprofit even at the

1:36:27beginning of the council agenda that

1:36:28they don't have a lot of money. They

1:36:30don't have a lot of capital. So, every

1:36:31opportunity that they can partner with

1:36:33the city or the state to be able to

1:36:35bring their their vision to fruition is

1:36:37important. And I know that there are

1:36:38several projects happening in in my

1:36:41district and in Witchaw, be it at the

1:36:43Nomar Theater, be it at Storytime

1:36:45Village, they rely on those exemptions.

1:36:47And so I just really encourage us to not

1:36:49just take what feels easy to accomplish

1:36:53or advocate for, but really look at the

1:36:55needs of our community and have those

1:36:56tough conversations. Um because I feel

1:36:59that many people, at least in my

1:37:01district, don't feel that we are willing

1:37:03to have the conversations out of fear of

1:37:06political backlash. But the health care

1:37:08conversation is also really important.

1:37:10Medicare, Medicaid expansion. So, um

1:37:13those are the things that I feel that we

1:37:14need to have conversations about and I

1:37:16hope that we can collectively come to an

1:37:18agreement that uh we can lean into some

1:37:21of those tough conversations.

1:37:23>> And council member, I appreciate your

1:37:25comments on that. And what's interesting

1:37:27um oftentimes when you put together a

1:37:30list like this and and they all those

1:37:33topics they seem siloed in many

1:37:36instances and then what you find is that

1:37:38in fact uh you tug a little over here

1:37:41and you've pulled a big thread over here

1:37:43or a little more over here and the next

1:37:44thing there's a big thread over there.

1:37:46Uh, as it relates to the exemptions, we

1:37:48seem to have this conversation fairly

1:37:50regularly about every seven years on um

1:37:54eliminating many of the sales tax and

1:37:56property tax exemptions, but the state

1:37:58provides uh gives out however you want

1:38:00to term it, somewhere around $8 billion

1:38:02in lost revenue every year due to

1:38:04exemptions, whether they're property tax

1:38:06or sales tax. And so if you're trying to

1:38:08change the property tax structure then

1:38:12and then you also know that you're

1:38:13staring at you know a state budget

1:38:15that's in the red and you you know

1:38:18there's only a couple of ways that you

1:38:20can glean new revenue or adjust those

1:38:23budget uh budget numbers. And so we are

1:38:26again in that cycle of do we look at the

1:38:29I think we're now up to triple N of

1:38:34sales tax exemptions that the state

1:38:36gives out all of which are are so

1:38:38justified um by many organizations but

1:38:42then you know again when you're talking

1:38:43about property tax relief for the state

1:38:45budget and then K12 again it's that

1:38:48pulling a little bit over here creates

1:38:50that big threat over there and so that

1:38:51the issues do become very interrelated

1:38:53very quickly. So, I appreciate that

1:38:55observation.

1:38:59Uh, and the last thing I'll mention, if

1:39:00there aren't any other questions, is uh,

1:39:02speaking about partnerships, um, I

1:39:04appreciate the opportunity to go a

1:39:06little bit early. I would like to

1:39:06actually hear Mr. Jansen's comments um

1:39:09with some excitement this last week, but

1:39:12uh we are headed out as a large

1:39:13consortium of canons along with the

1:39:16Witchah Chamber uh and other businesses

1:39:18from the area out to DC this afternoon

1:39:21where we'll be for the next several days

1:39:22working with our local and state elected

1:39:25and federal elected officials and their

1:39:27staffs. So, uh to that partnership

1:39:29standpoint, but I'm happy to answer any

1:39:31other questions or you always know where

1:39:33to find me.

1:39:35Okay. Thank you.

1:39:38for our Thank you very much. Safe

1:39:41travels. For our um next agenda item

1:39:44today in the workshop is our monthly

1:39:46update from Witaw Waterworks. And I'll

1:39:49have um Gary Jansen, director of

1:39:51utilities and public works, come up and

1:39:54tee that up for our monthly update on

1:39:56our new treatment plant expansion.

1:40:11>> [clears throat]

1:40:11>> Thank you, manager. Good morning, Gary

1:40:12Jansen, public works and utilities. Uh,

1:40:15mayor and city council members wanted to

1:40:17provide our monthly update on Witchaw

1:40:19Waterworks.

1:40:20Looks a little bit different than where

1:40:22we have been. Uh, Ron Coker with Waw

1:40:24Water Partners is here. Uh, I think I'm

1:40:26going to be able to work through all of

1:40:27this. Don't intentionally mean to leave

1:40:29Ron out, but if you've got questions for

1:40:30him, he is here. So, we we completed uh

1:40:34performance testing that we've talked

1:40:36about. All of the clarifier repairs were

1:40:38completed. The performance testing was

1:40:40completed and accepted on September

1:40:4210th. Both parties signed a certificate

1:40:44of occupancy which allows city staff to

1:40:47begin advanced training on all

1:40:48operational and maintenance components.

1:40:50So, we have staff um in the facility now

1:40:54uh working on uh understanding the

1:40:56operations and the maintenance of the

1:40:59plant going forward. We've got 15

1:41:02full-time staff working 247 shifts.

1:41:04We've got a couple of positions open. We

1:41:07also have some supervisory staff on top

1:41:09of that. So, fairly normal numbers.

1:41:10We're a little bit slim right now. WTOW

1:41:13Water Partners uh will provide

1:41:14transitional operations support as

1:41:16needed. So, they've got folks that are

1:41:17still there. We worked through with them

1:41:19over the last few weeks what that plan

1:41:21looked like. Uh and they will prov

1:41:24provide support as needed probably over

1:41:25the next 30 to 60 days. The certificate

1:41:29does not constitute final acceptance,

1:41:31nor does it trigger additional payment

1:41:32at this time. So, we have a phase three

1:41:34of this work that we've talked about for

1:41:36some time. Waw Water Partners remains

1:41:38responsible for that phase three work.

1:41:41Um, when we're ready to go, we think

1:41:43I've talked about this for some time

1:41:45that we're going to operate this plant

1:41:46for six months. We're going to learn the

1:41:48operations for six months. I'll hit on

1:41:50that again in just a minute. uh when we

1:41:53are ready to go to the system with this

1:41:55plant there's some work that still needs

1:41:56to be done that was part of the original

1:41:58contract connecting the dots effectively

1:42:00so that we can go to distribution

1:42:02there's some work that still needs to be

1:42:04done to test the high service pump

1:42:05station on site those things remain a

1:42:08part of phase three we want to issue

1:42:10final acceptance on the project until

1:42:12that point in time I mentioned we've got

1:42:1515 staff uh working 247 shifts chemical

1:42:19dosing just to kind of hit on a summary

1:42:20of activities chemical dosing is being

1:42:22adjusted for various scenarios and raw

1:42:24water blends. So, we're working the

1:42:26plant through its paces. Uh, this plant

1:42:29has more flexibility than we currently

1:42:31do at the main water treatment plant

1:42:33with the ability [snorts] to treat

1:42:34groundwater only, surface water only,

1:42:36and we will mostly be in a mode where

1:42:39we'll treat a blend of water. But we're

1:42:41working through all those scenarios,

1:42:42different volumes at different times.

1:42:45Uh, we are completing sampling every

1:42:46four hours to ensure continued

1:42:48compliance with drinking water

1:42:49standards. Same thing that happens at

1:42:51our current plant that will stay on

1:42:54through all of this time even when we

1:42:56come online. So we have a discuss a lot

1:42:59about test water as we continue over

1:43:01this next six months until the point in

1:43:03time that we connect to the system. We

1:43:06will still have test water running

1:43:07through the facility. Up to 17 million

1:43:10gallons a day flow rate is being

1:43:13directed to the main water treatment

1:43:14plant for distribution to the system and

1:43:16this will continue. So, as we speak

1:43:19right now, we've got water coming out of

1:43:20the Witchaw Waterworks new water

1:43:23treatment plant through the pipeline. It

1:43:25is being directed through our current

1:43:26plant and is going to the system. So, we

1:43:29are providing water to Witchaw right now

1:43:31from this plant. Have been for some time

1:43:33and will continue to do so.

1:43:36So, what happens next? Uh staff

1:43:38anticipates training and testing for six

1:43:40months with full operations sometime

1:43:42around the second quarter of 2027.

1:43:45Uh beyond that, discussions continue

1:43:46with Witto Water Partners regarding our

1:43:48claim for negotiated damages and cost

1:43:50recovery related to energy, chemicals,

1:43:53staffing, and other components related

1:43:54to defective construction.

1:43:57And the last comment I want to make,

1:43:59same thing I've talked about for some

1:44:00time now, is the city will not be

1:44:01responsible for costs related to the

1:44:03clarifier, redesign, and repairs that

1:44:05are now completed. One thing I did want

1:44:08to show as a reminder, I haven't talked

1:44:10about for some time is this project cost

1:44:13summary for Witchaw Waterworks is on our

1:44:16website and it can be found in the

1:44:17public works and utilities page. There's

1:44:20two pieces of this because I just

1:44:22couldn't fit it all in one and and I

1:44:24split it up. The top part of this is the

1:44:26contract itself, the design build

1:44:29contract with Witaw Water Partners. The

1:44:31bottom part of this is shows the overall

1:44:34budget of $557 million. Everything in

1:44:37between here uh is what we've talked

1:44:40about before. Just as a quick reminder,

1:44:41again, this is available on the website.

1:44:43There is a lot that happens on these

1:44:45projects outside of the design and

1:44:48construction component, especially on a

1:44:50project this size. You know, we worked

1:44:53with Evergy. Uh there had to be a

1:44:55separate substation built, a power plant

1:44:58just for this facility. uh the cost

1:45:01reached nearly $12 million. There's a

1:45:03lot happens behind the scenes um uh for

1:45:06advisory services outside council. Our

1:45:09owners rep with Garver has been critical

1:45:10to this. But anyway, this has got a good

1:45:13breakdown of all the project costs uh

1:45:14where we've been and I just wanted to

1:45:17remind everybody where that's at because

1:45:18I get questions sometimes about where

1:45:20we're at. This is available on the

1:45:22website.

1:45:22>> I just have a quick question. Um thank

1:45:24you director. Um you said it's on the

1:45:26website. Is it on the city website or is

1:45:28it at the Witchah water?

1:45:30>> It's on the city website.

1:45:32>> So, if somebody was curious where might

1:45:33might they find it? Is it under the

1:45:35public works department?

1:45:36>> So, in the public works and utilities

1:45:37page.

1:45:38>> Okay.

1:45:38>> Uh within the water section of that this

1:45:41project, Witchaw Waterworks is on our

1:45:43page and this information is included

1:45:45there.

1:45:45>> And then a question that I get asked,

1:45:47you know, because of the controversy and

1:45:49you know, some of the issues that we've

1:45:50had, original budget versus actual

1:45:53budget, what would be the variance? I

1:45:55can go and look, but just curious like

1:45:57has the project come in on budget?

1:46:00>> So, if you look at the and there's a

1:46:02little bit fine print here and I not no

1:46:04intention there, but I'll tell you

1:46:05what's on the bottom of this page. The

1:46:08initial overall project budget that was

1:46:10approved in 2019 was $553 million. The

1:46:14current budget, which was approved by

1:46:16the city council on October 4th, October

1:46:1914th, 2025, is $557 million. So, the

1:46:23overall project budget

1:46:26uh has gone up by $4 million since 2019.

1:46:29>> Thank you very much. That's great.

1:46:33>> That's all I have for this. I'd be happy

1:46:34to answer any questions.

1:46:36>> I have a couple of questions. Um when

1:46:38this project was first considered, it

1:46:40was uh before many of us on this council

1:46:43were um members. Can you talk about um

1:46:47this water treatment plant would

1:46:50eventually um have water that would go

1:46:52to the Hes pump station to pump it out

1:46:55to all the customers. Was the Hes pump

1:46:58station ever considered to be rebuilt

1:47:00along with this water treatment plant?

1:47:01Can you talk about what happened in

1:47:032019?

1:47:04>> It was and I'm just going to give you a

1:47:06rough estimation estimation because this

1:47:08question has been asked over time. So,

1:47:10as you know, um, and I can't tell you

1:47:13when Hess Pump Station was built, but

1:47:15our current water treatment plant has

1:47:17been there since 1939.

1:47:19Uh, and Hes Pump Station has been there

1:47:21just about as long, providing the

1:47:24ability to distribute water, treated

1:47:26water to our system. Um, we have a lot

1:47:29of large facilities within Hes Pump

1:47:31Station. We've got eight pumps that are

1:47:332,000 horsepower. There's a lot

1:47:35happening. There's big pipes. More

1:47:37importantly, that's kind of the hub for

1:47:40our system. We've got 84 inch diameter

1:47:42pipes coming out of there, spreading out

1:47:43to our system. To contemplate moving

1:47:45that to the same location as Witchaw

1:47:49Waterworks and having to redo the

1:47:51system, it was going to be another three

1:47:53or 400 million to do that. We didn't see

1:47:56the value in that. So when Witto

1:47:59Waterworks comes online, uh we've got a

1:48:0364 inch diameter pipeline between that

1:48:05and Hasp station that will continue to

1:48:07operate in the same way that it does

1:48:09now.

1:48:11>> And you also mentioned that there's

1:48:13already water that's being treated at

1:48:15the new water treatment plant that then

1:48:17goes to the current main water treatment

1:48:19plant and then gets pumped out to

1:48:21customers at the pump station. When was

1:48:24that? When did water from the new water

1:48:27treatment plant already start going

1:48:28through the system?

1:48:29>> We started doing that

1:48:32probably late last summer, uh, early

1:48:35fall during the testing stages. At that

1:48:39point in time, uh, our engineers and

1:48:41staff were able to find a way, very

1:48:44innovative way, um, to to go ahead and

1:48:47bring that water through that pipeline.

1:48:48We were just bypassing there and

1:48:50discharging into the Ark River. Uh, but

1:48:53we were able to take it into what we

1:48:54call our east plant. The current main

1:48:56water treatment plant is kind of split

1:48:58up in two pieces. We were able to take

1:48:59it into that east plant. That water does

1:49:02go through filt filtration and

1:49:04disinfection before it goes to the

1:49:06system, but we've been able to capture a

1:49:08lot of that test water going forward.

1:49:10So, I know the last time I asked um

1:49:14right before we moved into the facility

1:49:16um and some of the last testing that was

1:49:18done, they were testing at about 18

1:49:20million gallons a day. So, we were

1:49:22taking nearly all of that water into the

1:49:24plant to the system, not wasting

1:49:27anything.

1:49:31>> Topical. Um, does the new water

1:49:34treatment facility have the ability to

1:49:37um jump back and forth between emergency

1:49:40generators in case of power outages? Is

1:49:43that different compared to the current

1:49:45water treatment?

1:49:46>> It does. And let me just hit on that

1:49:47real quick and I'll come back to that on

1:49:49the next item. I did a poor job

1:49:51explaining before what the issue was.

1:49:54Um, even though I knew it, they just

1:49:56didn't explain it very well. So, what

1:49:58happens with the backup generators at

1:50:00the new plant, it is automatic trans,

1:50:03there's automatic transfer switches. If

1:50:05we lose power at the new facility, it

1:50:07automatically go to generators.

1:50:10As long as it stays on automatic,

1:50:13that system when it detects that power

1:50:15is back, it'll automatically switch back

1:50:17to grid power. Our current facility does

1:50:20the same thing. What we have done

1:50:23historically because of the potential

1:50:25for damage to equipment

1:50:28primarily and I'll talk about that again

1:50:29more here in a little bit. We have

1:50:32turned off the automatic switch. We have

1:50:34manually gone to generation [snorts]

1:50:36to generator power. That's what was

1:50:38happening last Tuesday night and

1:50:41Wednesday when the incident happened

1:50:42that resulted in the boil water

1:50:44advisory. We had gone manually to

1:50:46generation. We've done that for 8 to 10

1:50:47years. We've done it hundreds of times.

1:50:50There are things that happen when you

1:50:52have an unexpected,

1:50:54unplanned interruption of power with

1:50:57equipment like this and equipment of

1:50:59this size, very large, very expensive

1:51:01equipment we have to be very protective

1:51:03of. That's why we had historically gone

1:51:06manually to generators. What happens is

1:51:10when you turn off the automatic switch

1:51:11like we always do, there is no way to

1:51:14automatically go back. At least not yet.

1:51:17We are looking into that. Our electric

1:51:19and power engineers think that they may

1:51:21be able to find a way. If we choose to

1:51:24move forward with that practice, which

1:51:26we are putting on hold for now. If we

1:51:28choose to move forward with that

1:51:29practice, we are looking for a see if

1:51:32there's a way. If we choose to manually

1:51:35go to generation power and we lose that,

1:51:38can we automatically go back? So, that

1:51:41was the nuance that I didn't explain

1:51:43very well before. We are fully set up at

1:51:45both plants to automatically switch

1:51:48between power sources until the point in

1:51:51time that we remove ourself from that

1:51:53automatic system.

1:51:56>> Hopefully that made some sense.

1:51:59>> Gary,

1:52:00>> sorry, can I do a followup to that

1:52:01question? So, does that mean that the

1:52:03new water treatment plant if someone

1:52:06manually went and went to um backup

1:52:10generator would then automatically go

1:52:12back to the grid even though they went

1:52:14manual first?

1:52:15>> It won't right now because I think we

1:52:18can all recognize what happens if you if

1:52:21you go to manual power. If you go to the

1:52:23generators and the automatic switch is

1:52:25on, it'll just automatically hop back to

1:52:27grid power. We have to override that

1:52:29through the logic in the programming

1:52:32that it recognizes we chose to manually

1:52:35go to generator power. We only want it

1:52:38to switch back if we lose that power.

1:52:40That's what we're going to work on.

1:52:43We're going to evaluate, and I'll hit on

1:52:45this more, but I'll go ahead and finish

1:52:47this thought now. We're going to

1:52:48evaluate where we've been with this

1:52:49practice. We're pausing that. We're not

1:52:52doing that anymore. We did not do that

1:52:53Saturday night with the storms coming

1:52:55in. We're we're not doing that anymore

1:52:57for right now. We're going to pause that

1:52:58for right now. We're going to evaluate

1:53:00everything that we've done in this

1:53:01practice and see what makes sense going

1:53:03forward. I think with the discussions

1:53:06I've had with staff since last week, we

1:53:08have found that there may be some things

1:53:10we want to look at. There may be some

1:53:12changes we could make to buy down our

1:53:15risk and remove some of these issues

1:53:18that we had that led to the event on

1:53:20Wednesday. They both work the same right

1:53:23now. they both work the way they need

1:53:25to. If we stay in automatic mode and we

1:53:28lose power, we just run into a lot of

1:53:30potential issues with an unexpected

1:53:33power interruption. And I know I've

1:53:34belabored that, but I'll talk about that

1:53:35again a little bit more on the next

1:53:37item, too.

1:53:41>> Gary, I I know that the new water

1:53:43treatment facility is is utilizing some

1:53:46technology that obviously our old one

1:53:48did not have. And one of the questions

1:53:50that I'm I'm being asked from some

1:53:52constituents is um have we have we

1:53:56already outlined like a standard

1:53:57operating procedure in the case of

1:53:58someone can hack into the system? What

1:54:01the risk are, who owns what risk, etc.

1:54:03from from that technology standpoint.

1:54:05And I think the last time you gave the

1:54:07update, I asked this before, but I

1:54:09wanted to ask again so that way I can

1:54:11communicate with the public um that

1:54:13we've taken this into account if we

1:54:14have.

1:54:15>> So I think if I heard you talking about

1:54:17cyber security issues. Absolutely.

1:54:19>> So, we have done a what I would consider

1:54:22a tremendous job in being prepared on

1:54:25the cyber security side and we have

1:54:27worked with it, we've worked with the

1:54:28auditor's office um as part of the

1:54:31design and construction of the new

1:54:32facility, but even as part of our entire

1:54:34system, our current facilities, we have

1:54:38layers upon layers of protection for

1:54:41cyber security. One of the uh first

1:54:46layers of protection for us is our SCADA

1:54:49system and and what our SCADA it's

1:54:51supervisory control and data acquisition

1:54:53and I don't want to bore you with a lot

1:54:54of acronyms but our system our

1:54:57technology system for capturing data for

1:55:00operating our systems for everything

1:55:01that we do for operator controls it is

1:55:04not internetf facing it is its own

1:55:07separate system effectively off the web

1:55:10if that makes sense. There was uh if you

1:55:13hear about some of the most recent

1:55:15issues that have happened in facilities

1:55:17across the country what we have seen

1:55:20most of those were tied into the

1:55:22internet they were internetf facing

1:55:24which makes it much easier to get to

1:55:27that alone provides a barrier that a lot

1:55:30of folks don't have and it provides a

1:55:32very solid first layer of protection but

1:55:34we were tasked uh by the former city

1:55:37manager and I've committed to the

1:55:39current city manager it will remain a

1:55:41top priority for us. We are continuing

1:55:43to work on everything related to

1:55:46security and that includes

1:55:48security of the facility, who can get in

1:55:51and out, when they can get in and out,

1:55:52our ability to know who's in the

1:55:55facility at any point in time. I feel

1:55:57very confident in where we're at. You

1:55:59know, I can never stand here and say

1:56:00that everything's 100% foolproof, but I

1:56:02appreciate you asking the question, and

1:56:03it remains a very top priority for us.

1:56:12And last but not least, um can you just

1:56:14reiterate the city has not taken full

1:56:16ownership of this new water treatment

1:56:18plant. Is that accurate?

1:56:20>> Correct. So with this certificate of

1:56:22occupancy and what we called for partial

1:56:24final acceptance was for everything that

1:56:26we've done to this point within the

1:56:27contract. There still is phase three

1:56:29work. There's remaining work to be done

1:56:31by Witto Water Partners. Um we're

1:56:34working through everything to learn and

1:56:36understand the operations and

1:56:37maintenance now. until we get to the

1:56:39point of being ready to go to the

1:56:41system. Um

1:56:43then with that phase three work

1:56:45completed will be when we look at final

1:56:47acceptance and then through that point

1:56:49in time we'll look at final payment. But

1:56:51there's still there's still other phases

1:56:53here to be completed.

1:56:56>> Thank you Gary. And for those that uh

1:56:58council member Tuttle was asking the

1:57:00website is witchah.govwater GV/water

1:57:04and all of the documents including the

1:57:06cost breakdown um according to 9212026

1:57:11is located in the documents portion. So

1:57:14again witchah.govwater.

1:57:18>> Thank you mayor. I should have done a

1:57:19better job with that.

1:57:23>> Let's go ahead and move on. We're going

1:57:25to [clears throat] add to uh the

1:57:27presentation today based upon last

1:57:29week's events with the power failure at

1:57:32the pump station and treatment plant.

1:57:35We'll give the uh overview and then

1:57:36council, you have a timeline in front of

1:57:38you and we've provided a timeline

1:57:41um for the public consumption as well.

1:57:44And I'll ask Mr. Jansen to walk through

1:57:46that.

1:57:47>> Thank you, Mr. Manager. Um, so we had

1:57:49multiple discussions since last

1:57:51Wednesday. Um, and and it's taken me

1:57:54some time to catch up on a few things,

1:57:55spend a lot of time with staff. Some of

1:57:58the information we provided now is now

1:58:00I'm I'm able to update this is still

1:58:03we're still working through this. Um, we

1:58:06had a a good discussion with all staff

1:58:09yesterday. Uh, multiple staff are

1:58:11meeting with our electrical and power

1:58:13engineers this afternoon to evaluate

1:58:15what we do going forward. But I wanted

1:58:17to give you the information we've got so

1:58:19far, clarify some things of where we've

1:58:21been. So, Wednesday evening, uh, and I

1:58:24want to be very clear and state

1:58:26something because, you know, I heard

1:58:28from a lot of folks, some of you heard

1:58:30from those in the community that made

1:58:32the assumption that we don't have backup

1:58:33power. And so, I wanted to be very clear

1:58:36that we do have backup power generation

1:58:38at this water plant, at all of our major

1:58:41facilities. is I will tell you, you

1:58:43might be surprised to hear that these

1:58:45generators were only built and put in

1:58:46place in 2009. So, prior to that, we did

1:58:49not have backup power to this water

1:58:50treatment facility. It's a good thing

1:58:52that we do now. Um, the issue that we

1:58:55had, and I'm going to get into in just a

1:58:57minute and reiterate and talk about had

1:58:59more to do with our processes. There was

1:59:01no human error involved here. Uh, but

1:59:03some changes that we're going to make to

1:59:05programming, we think we found the root

1:59:07cause of why the generator stopped

1:59:08working. But there's more to it than

1:59:11that. and we need to continue looking at

1:59:12our processes going forward. So on

1:59:16Tuesday evening, there were active

1:59:17storms in the area. We had a whether was

1:59:21a brief loss of power. We refer to that

1:59:23as a blip before. We can call it

1:59:24whatever we want. That was just our term

1:59:26for it. There was a power interruption

1:59:29in the plant that uh triggered an alarm

1:59:32and prompted a call in of additional

1:59:34staff. So we had an alarm likely from a

1:59:37pump VFT VFD going off. So historically,

1:59:40I'll just say again, over the last 8 to

1:59:4210 years,

1:59:44when we have seen the potential for

1:59:46storms, it varies on the type, it varies

1:59:50on the size. Uh we looked at the radar

1:59:53at this point. There were storms lined

1:59:55up all the way to Oklahoma border. It

1:59:56was a long line of storms that night. We

1:59:59brought in more staff. We made the

2:00:01decision to switch manually to backup

2:00:04power. Same thing we've done for 8 to 10

2:00:06years. I'm not here to tell you that

2:00:08we're going to keep doing that because

2:00:10that's what we've always done. That's

2:00:11not the point. Uh we did not expect this

2:00:14to happen obviously. Um it was an issue

2:00:17within the programming I'm going to talk

2:00:19about here shortly that we have found.

2:00:23So around just after 8:00 um we made a

2:00:26decision to move to backup power. I

2:00:28mentioned again that that middle bullet.

2:00:31We've done this for quite some time.

2:00:33What happens during an unexpected power

2:00:36interruption is just like in your house

2:00:39if you lose power and potentially it

2:00:40trips breakers. Um the same things

2:00:43happens here. So we have variable

2:00:45frequency drives on our large pumps.

2:00:47Helps control the speed of the pumps.

2:00:49Helps protect the equipment long term.

2:00:52When we have an unexpected power

2:00:54interruption, we have things like VFDs

2:00:56that get tripped. We have decided over

2:01:00time that we need to manually reset

2:01:02those because of the sensitivity of this

2:01:04equipment because of what our task is.

2:01:08We need to make sure that nothing has

2:01:09happened. If it was a lightning strike,

2:01:11you could have arcing between equipment.

2:01:13Unfortunately, you can see over time

2:01:15there could be fires and equipment. We

2:01:18need to get people there to make sure

2:01:20everything's good. We need to reset

2:01:22those VFDs. That takes time. I'm going

2:01:25to illustrate something to you here in

2:01:27just a minute on another bullet of what

2:01:28happens for us with time and how quick

2:01:32pressure can drop in the system. The

2:01:34problem we had here that led to the boil

2:01:37water advisory was loss of pressure.

2:01:40So by proactively moving manually to

2:01:44backup generation, it's a seamless

2:01:46transition. We don't lose power. The

2:01:48system syncs itself and it switches

2:01:51without losing power. We don't have to

2:01:53worry about any of those issues of

2:01:54resetting VFDs. And all the time we have

2:01:57done this, we have not had an issue with

2:01:59that backup power staying on and staying

2:02:02running.

2:02:04But obviously with what's happened here,

2:02:06we're going to take a step back and

2:02:07we're going to take another look to see

2:02:08if this makes sense going forward. Plant

2:02:11transfer to generators is easy on

2:02:13equipment overall and it's seamless for

2:02:15operations. So just after 5:00 am on

2:02:18Wednesday, we had normal operations in

2:02:21the plant. Uh what I would with as far

2:02:23as staffing

2:02:255:00 a.m. on most summer mornings, we

2:02:28start to see a peak in demand because of

2:02:30irrigation systems coming on. People are

2:02:32beginning their days, but primarily for

2:02:34irrigation.

2:02:36So there was a need to call for another

2:02:39pump. Two pumps were running. We need to

2:02:41call for another pump. I might mention

2:02:43again, we've got eight pumps. These are

2:02:452,000 horsepower pumps. This is not a

2:02:47good comparison to 99% of the world's

2:02:51industries on how big these pumps are.

2:02:53And that's probably an overestimation,

2:02:54but I've heard from a lot of folks

2:02:56saying, "You shouldn't need to do that.

2:02:58We've got backup generators and they

2:03:00work just fine." This is not normal

2:03:02equipment. You only find pumps this big

2:03:06uh in industries like ours and in oil

2:03:08and gas, major industries, large cities

2:03:11for distribution to this many people. As

2:03:14you know, we're providing water to

2:03:15500,000 people and we're covering 166

2:03:18square miles of Witchto plus a little

2:03:20bit more. That becomes a factor in these

2:03:23decisions that we make because of the

2:03:26size and sensitivity of this equipment.

2:03:29We have to be very careful and how we do

2:03:31things here. And if we have an

2:03:33interrupted

2:03:34uh

2:03:36power outage, a a an interruption in the

2:03:39power, unexpected interruption in the

2:03:40power that can cause damage to

2:03:42equipment. One of these pumps alone and

2:03:44the equipment goes with it is likely a

2:03:46million dollars to replace trying to

2:03:48protect our investment. Having said all

2:03:50that, I also recognize the impact we had

2:03:52on the community with the boil water

2:03:54advisory. So our first task here and our

2:03:57primary task is find every way we can to

2:04:00avoid having this in the future.

2:04:04During that period of time, what

2:04:05happened after 503? We got power back

2:04:08momentarily and then lost it again. So,

2:04:13it's never a good time to deal with

2:04:14these type of issues. It's certainly

2:04:16compounded at 5:00 in the morning,

2:04:17right? We've got staff fully trained to

2:04:19deal with these issues uh and be able to

2:04:22respond to them. They're trying to

2:04:23figure out what's going on. We've got

2:04:25backup battery power that at least keeps

2:04:28the lights on, but there's no way you

2:04:31can have a backup battery system that

2:04:33will bring these size of pumps back on.

2:04:35And I've heard that from a lot of people

2:04:38saying, "Well, we got a backup system

2:04:39and it keeps our building systems

2:04:41going." That's probably true, but it's

2:04:42not going to run a 2,000 horsepower

2:04:45pump. We got to get power back going

2:04:50during the first four minutes. So, our

2:04:52normal pressure on our system, we

2:04:54measure it, our first measurement we

2:04:56take is at central and main. It's always

2:04:58been historically that we've done that.

2:05:00It's fairly close to our plant. That's

2:05:01normally around 90 PSI system pressure.

2:05:05In four minutes that pressure dropped to

2:05:0740 PSI. So you can understand the impact

2:05:10of time here. Anytime we get to

2:05:14below 20 PSI in the system, that is when

2:05:17we have to start looking at whether a

2:05:19boil water advisory is necessary. That's

2:05:22a regulation we work on, have

2:05:24discussions with the KDHE

2:05:27because at that point in time, as we

2:05:29talked before, if you get below a

2:05:30certain pressure in the system below

2:05:33that 20 PSI,

2:05:36you introduce the possibility in areas

2:05:39of groundwater that you could introduce

2:05:40contaminants that could get back into

2:05:43microscopic openings in the pipe. That's

2:05:45what we're trying to combat. That's why

2:05:46we try to maintain the same pressure. Is

2:05:48is there like a time period for that to

2:05:50be 20 PSR or is it just simply hitting

2:05:53that mid

2:05:54>> there's a lot of factors involved um and

2:05:56it's why we have a very close contact

2:05:59and conversation with KDHE

2:06:02um it's not always automatic uh that

2:06:05just because some portion of the system

2:06:07dropped below 20 PSI that we

2:06:09automatically go to boil water there's

2:06:12multiple factors involved um we rely on

2:06:15the expertise of KDH of talking through

2:06:16it and having understanding ing. We've

2:06:19seen times before, as you can imagine,

2:06:21as we get further out in our system, we

2:06:23start to see lower normal pressures.

2:06:25Anyway, 90 PSI at central and Maine.

2:06:28Right now, as we get out towards the

2:06:30edges of the city, we're probably around

2:06:3140 in some areas, 40 to 50. We the very

2:06:36day before I took this position that I'm

2:06:38in on a Sunday, we were in this room

2:06:41contemplating whether we need to have a

2:06:42boil water advisory because we had an

2:06:45upset in the system at the water

2:06:47treatment plant and we did have that

2:06:49very discussion of where in the system

2:06:52we were at with 20 PSI. We were able to

2:06:55figure out with the data that we could

2:06:57mine from our system that we could avoid

2:06:59the boil water. We did not have to do

2:07:02that. I just offer that as an example of

2:07:04no two situations are the same. Pressure

2:07:06is critical here. Our goal during this

2:07:09period of time is to get everything

2:07:10fired back up and reressurize the system

2:07:14primarily for fire flows, right? We've

2:07:16got to get fire flows going again. Chief

2:07:19Mir and I have had a conversation now

2:07:22just in the last week about making sure

2:07:25we are in step going forward and and we

2:07:27will be and we have been but we got the

2:07:30system back up I think as quick I know

2:07:32as quick as we could to reressurize the

2:07:34system so every power was restored

2:07:36around 5:45 so we had a period of time

2:07:39there of almost 45 minutes without power

2:07:41all pumps and supporting equipment were

2:07:43restarted by 603 with the system at hess

2:07:48fully pressurized by around 606. So we

2:07:50were able to restore

2:07:52um pressure coming out of Hess at that

2:07:55point in time.

2:07:57Our system is big enough. We probably

2:07:59did we don't instantaneously restore

2:08:01that full system pressure. It likely

2:08:03took maybe even up to an hour to restore

2:08:06pressure across all of the system. Um,

2:08:09but during that period of time when

2:08:12these things are happening, I'm talking

2:08:14to staff, I'm talking to the manager,

2:08:16we're talking to comps, we're talking to

2:08:18KDHE,

2:08:19first priority is reestablished pressure

2:08:21and then try to evaluate time frame

2:08:24where we were at. It became apparent

2:08:27just in what we were hearing from people

2:08:28across the community that we lost

2:08:30pressure in the system completely in

2:08:32some areas which led to making a

2:08:35determination of the boil water

2:08:37advisory. And so we went back to Everg's

2:08:41power, the main power source.

2:08:42>> We did,

2:08:44>> we flipped the automatic switch so we

2:08:45would go back to EverG because we knew

2:08:47it was available because we had manually

2:08:50gone to

2:08:51uh generators for all the reasons I

2:08:54talked about to avoid having a loss of

2:08:56power in a storm.

2:08:58>> I one question on that. um like what

2:09:02what's in our procedure as far as the

2:09:04all clear that the storms have passed

2:09:06that we would go back to um the main

2:09:09power source and off of the generators.

2:09:11>> That is a very good question and

2:09:13something that we are re-evaluating

2:09:15within our process is historically what

2:09:18we have done is we've waited till shift

2:09:20change which is around 7 to 7:30 in the

2:09:24morning. It's just operationally for us

2:09:26it works a little bit better to just

2:09:28stay in that mode

2:09:30in a situation like this. From what I

2:09:32can tell, I think the storms were

2:09:34through. So even if we consider

2:09:39staying with this process that we've

2:09:40done for some time, we're going to

2:09:42clearly evaluate that at what point in

2:09:45time we switch back to ever power

2:09:48because it's we probably need to step

2:09:50away from waiting for shift change.

2:09:52Maybe that's going to be part of our

2:09:54evaluation going forward.

2:09:56>> Thank you.

2:09:58>> So th keep walking through where we've

2:10:00been. Thursday was spent collecting and

2:10:02testing samples and diagnosing and

2:10:03analyze operational factors. So we were

2:10:05already digging in then to what will

2:10:07happen, but our very focus was on

2:10:08collecting these samples, getting them

2:10:10into the lab as quick as we can because

2:10:12we know we've got this 24-hour clock. Um

2:10:14I think staff did a wonderful job with

2:10:16that. I will tell you

2:10:18um talk about some of the improvements

2:10:20we've made over time. We have 195 test

2:10:22stations across the community. You've

2:10:23probably seen them. It's a blue pole

2:10:26with a box on top of it. You may not

2:10:27recognize what it is, but they're all

2:10:29over the city. We put those in probably

2:10:32within the last five to seven years. We

2:10:35used to go uh into people's houses and

2:10:38businesses and ask to take water samples

2:10:40so that we could verify where we're at

2:10:42with the system. We have made it a lot

2:10:44more user friendly, not just for a boil

2:10:47water, but for us consistently to sample

2:10:49the system. So that was a great thing

2:10:51that we did. Surprisingly, we didn't

2:10:53have that sooner, but we were able to.

2:10:54It still takes time. It's 195 stations

2:10:57across the community, so we had to

2:10:59deploy staff as quick as we could. I

2:11:01think we did a great job with that. All

2:11:03four generators underwent extensive

2:11:05offload and full load testing on Friday

2:11:08with steady staff, the equipment vendor,

2:11:10and our consultant for electrical and uh

2:11:14power. Testing did identify a generator

2:11:17programming issue. I'm not going to

2:11:19spend a lot of time on this because if

2:11:20you ask me too many questions, I

2:11:21probably can't explain it to you good

2:11:23enough. Anyway, we did find a problem

2:11:25and what's called what I call a problem

2:11:27an an incorrect or a setting uh within

2:11:31the generators what we call a set point

2:11:33that was not allowing the additional

2:11:36power to come online.

2:11:38This is also a measure for protection of

2:11:41equipment. So when you think about uh

2:11:45equipment of this size, you don't run

2:11:48any of it at small load and you don't

2:11:50run any of it at 100% load. There's this

2:11:52spot where it works optimally or you'll

2:11:55start damaging equipment. So these set

2:11:57points

2:11:59are put in place so that you can

2:12:01optimize the power supply and don't risk

2:12:03damaging equipment. This part we haven't

2:12:06quite figured out why. What happened is

2:12:08we had two generators running. it

2:12:09reached the set point for the capacity

2:12:11of those generators. When we called for

2:12:13a an additional pump,

2:12:16the third generator was trying to come

2:12:18on and it couldn't because of where that

2:12:20set point was. And I know this won't

2:12:22make entire sense because it doesn't

2:12:23make entire sense to me. We're still

2:12:25looking into it. Instead of it

2:12:28recognized that it couldn't bring on

2:12:29that third generator because it was

2:12:31already at capacity. It didn't have the

2:12:33time. My question has been why didn't it

2:12:36ignore the call for the additional pump

2:12:39and keep those two running instead it

2:12:41shut everything down to protect again a

2:12:45lot of what happens here and the logic

2:12:47of this programming is first and

2:12:49foremost to protect equipment we've got

2:12:50to overcome that part we changed the set

2:12:54point lower to where this won't happen

2:12:56again in that same scenario what this

2:12:59illustrates is even with our best

2:13:02intentions with programming and what we

2:13:04do um across our system. There's a

2:13:08million in one scenarios and this was a

2:13:10million and two right that we had not

2:13:13seen in the past that caused this

2:13:15situation. We've made that change. We

2:13:17think that is the root cause. I

2:13:19apologize that I can't get any more

2:13:20technical with on that because I'd be

2:13:22making it up if I did. But we're still

2:13:24looking into that. It makes sense that

2:13:26that was the issue. We're going to

2:13:28overcome that going forward.

2:13:30We also have two substations, electro

2:13:34substations belong to us on the Hes

2:13:36campus. One of those we are aware it's

2:13:41the switch gear likely failed at that

2:13:43point in time somewhere in that period

2:13:45of time. That may have led to the power

2:13:46outage.

2:13:48We have since operated successfully.

2:13:50It's working fine. Still investigating

2:13:52what might have happened there. That

2:13:54could be part of the cause also. So, a

2:13:56lot of stuff still more moving forward.

2:13:58Things we're looking at. I'll mention

2:13:59again, uh, Saturday when we saw storms

2:14:02coming in, we stayed in automatic mode.

2:14:05We did not go to the generators

2:14:07manually. We brought in more staff to

2:14:10make sure we had somebody at the

2:14:12generator building, somebody at house

2:14:14pump station. Luckily, no issues. We're

2:14:16going to continue doing that going

2:14:18forward. I'll just mention that the

2:14:20generators are exercised monthly.

2:14:22Previous tests identified no problems.

2:14:24So, we do a very good job of

2:14:25preventative maintenance, monthly upkeep

2:14:28of these generators, making sure

2:14:29everything's in order. We do that uh

2:14:31across our entire utility. So, I'm going

2:14:34to keep going here. So, just to

2:14:37summarize for strengthening

2:14:38strengthening our operational

2:14:40resilience, generator programming was

2:14:43adjusted. So, additional generation

2:14:45starts sooner. All four generators were

2:14:48tested under offload and fullload

2:14:50conditions. Everything's fine. generator

2:14:52and switch gear performance retested and

2:14:55passed. That failure during the event is

2:14:57still under assessment because that

2:14:58could be a contributing factor. So,

2:15:01what's under evaluation going forward?

2:15:03Generators normally operate in automatic

2:15:05transfer mode. I don't need to spend a

2:15:07lot of time on this uh but I talked

2:15:09about what we've done. We're going to

2:15:11find out if there's a way if we wanted

2:15:13to do this in the future that we can

2:15:14automatically come out of it. In the

2:15:16meantime, we're going to stay in

2:15:17automatic mode. If we choose to maintain

2:15:20this practice going forward, which is

2:15:21yet to be determined, we'll include

2:15:23additional staff and then we've got a

2:15:25complete investigation of that switch

2:15:27gear I talked about.

2:15:29So, um, having said all of that, we

2:15:32recognize that redundant equipment and

2:15:34preventive maintenance reduce

2:15:35operational risk, but we cannot ever

2:15:38rule out mechanical or electrical system

2:15:41failures entirely. So what we need to

2:15:43do, our goal is to find every way we can

2:15:47to not end up in this situation again.

2:15:49We've got to provide backup systems and

2:15:52we need to ensure multiple paths to

2:15:54recover when an individual component

2:15:56does not perform as expected. had some

2:15:58really good conversations since late

2:16:00last week with staff uh with our

2:16:02consultant with our experts uh that it

2:16:06it that I think are going to lead us I

2:16:08know is going to take us in a better

2:16:11place moving forward because I'll

2:16:13mention again uh that I mentioned before

2:16:17pump station stays in place to your

2:16:19question mayor uh even when the new

2:16:21water treatment plant comes online these

2:16:22generators will remain there for backup

2:16:25power for house pump stations so we need

2:16:27to make sure our practices are great are

2:16:29in the right place moving forward.

2:16:32We conduct an afteraction review

2:16:34following significant events every

2:16:36single time to identify operational

2:16:38equipment, communication and procedural

2:16:40improvements. We started that on Friday.

2:16:42We had a a meeting with all everybody

2:16:45yesterday that will be ongoing and

2:16:47findings from this event will be

2:16:49incorporated into SOP's emergency

2:16:50response plans and training as

2:16:52appropriate.

2:16:54Last slide. Uh particular focus will be

2:16:57placed on the long-term resilience of

2:16:59Hes Pump Station because I mentioned

2:17:00again it will continue to serve the

2:17:03distribution system when Witaw

2:17:05Waterworks is fully operational as a

2:17:08result of the of this incident and the

2:17:10loss of generator power on September

2:17:1216th.

2:17:14The long-standing practice of switching

2:17:16to generators in advance of weather

2:17:17events will be paused and additional

2:17:20studio staff will be on duty during

2:17:23weather events. So, we're holding on

2:17:24this. It doesn't make sense to keep

2:17:26moving forward the way we were until we

2:17:28can have a better understanding.

2:17:29[snorts]

2:17:30I think the practice did make sense. I

2:17:32think we were doing the right thing to

2:17:33protect our equipment, but I also think

2:17:36we can potentially enhance our practices

2:17:38and find some ways

2:17:41to automatically

2:17:44reset VFDs and things like that. That's

2:17:46my goal. The diagnosis and analysis of

2:17:49root cause factors, root cause factors

2:17:52is expected to be complete in the next

2:17:5330 days. We're going to get that done as

2:17:55soon as we can. And as I mentioned

2:17:57before, we're going to have an

2:17:58independent analysis of everything that

2:18:00we do related to the utilization of

2:18:03backup generation. Uh that'll help lead

2:18:06us forward, not just with HS, but even

2:18:09with our new water treatment plant when

2:18:10it comes online. With all that, I'd be

2:18:13happy to answer any questions.

2:18:15Um, I know we've invested quite a bit in

2:18:19uh the infrastructure in the Hes pump

2:18:20station over the last couple of years.

2:18:23Um,

2:18:24is there any way we can get maybe a

2:18:26breakdown in in the next couple of weeks

2:18:28of how much we've invested and what the

2:18:31priorities are moving forward as far as

2:18:34uh maintaining the infrastructure at the

2:18:35Hesp pump station.

2:18:36>> We certainly can that all that

2:18:38information is readily available. Well,

2:18:40there's funding in the CIP now uh to

2:18:43continue doing work there. All of the

2:18:45work that you see happening out in front

2:18:47of house now kind of over here by the

2:18:49art museum across the Indian museum

2:18:53um isn't directly related to Hess, but

2:18:55has to do with our underground

2:18:57reservoirs, the flow of water, the aging

2:18:59of water, it all ties together. So,

2:19:02we've got a lot of investment happening

2:19:04now and more investment coming.

2:19:06>> Yeah, I'm trying to dust off the five

2:19:07years I've been up here and Sure. I do

2:19:09remember pumps, you know, we've replaced

2:19:12a couple of pumps out there and so yeah,

2:19:14just maybe getting a breakdown of that

2:19:16moving forward.

2:19:17>> I know uh council member Ballard and I

2:19:19at times have joked about how many times

2:19:22Hess shows up on the council agenda

2:19:25because there's just a lot to that needs

2:19:26to be done there on that campus. So,

2:19:28we've got a lot of information. We'll

2:19:29get that for you.

2:19:30>> Appreciate that. Um,

2:19:34when we do the testing, when KDHE does

2:19:37the testing, is it strictly just

2:19:38bacteria that they test for

2:19:41>> for when for the

2:19:42>> during an emergency like this?

2:19:45>> Uh, that and chlorine residuals which we

2:19:47provided up front, but effectively it's

2:19:49for bacteria. Yeah. Non-olififor and

2:19:51E.coli. Yeah.

2:19:52>> Okay. Is there potential for any of that

2:19:55getting into the system too through the

2:19:56microractures you have? Well, our

2:19:58testing showed that it there was no

2:20:01contamination.

2:20:02>> Okay.

2:20:03>> So, and that's what makes a difference

2:20:05when our systems pressurized. That

2:20:08effectively for the most part eliminates

2:20:11that possibility. But disinfection,

2:20:14continuous disinfection in our system is

2:20:16what helps overcome that also in the

2:20:18event that there are any issues.

2:20:20>> But the regular testing tests for the

2:20:22forever chemicals and whatnot.

2:20:24>> It does. It does. We test our water

2:20:25every four hours. Um, we've got reports

2:20:28we have to submit to KDHE monthly,

2:20:31quarterly, and annually uh about our

2:20:33water quality. Anything that's out of

2:20:35alignment, we are required to report to

2:20:37KDH. But it's it's an ongoing process,

2:20:41part of normal operations.

2:20:42>> Okay. And last thing, I I've heard from

2:20:45uh a number of residents about how can

2:20:47we better communicate to them. Some

2:20:49people received the text messages and

2:20:51emails and some did not. So, I guess

2:20:54maybe that's something that just us as a

2:20:56city has to maybe evaluate how we can do

2:20:59that a little better. Um, I didn't hear

2:21:02it the the first time. I didn't hear any

2:21:04of those complaints necessarily, but may

2:21:07have just been different circumstances.

2:21:09So, just putting that out there as well.

2:21:11>> And I appreciate that. And we will

2:21:12continue to work with comms absolutely

2:21:15on making sure we did I I think we did a

2:21:18really good job in responding in light

2:21:20of of of the situation. But but we can

2:21:23always learn from that. So some of it

2:21:26depends on what our citizens are signed

2:21:28up for,

2:21:29>> right?

2:21:30>> And I think what we need to do and and I

2:21:32don't want to speak for comms, but is to

2:21:34remind everybody here's how you can get

2:21:37information from the city because I feel

2:21:39pretty confident we sent information out

2:21:42to everybody who has signed up, who has

2:21:44registered. We have contact information

2:21:46for all of our water customers. So we

2:21:48send out notices 150,000 some people by

2:21:51that method.

2:21:52>> Yeah.

2:21:53>> Um obviously social media and everything

2:21:55else but we'll continue to work with

2:21:56comms on that.

2:21:57>> No I Yeah. And it's not on comms. It's

2:21:59just

2:22:01>> it's just more the gaps to where it's a

2:22:04difficult thing nowadays to communicate

2:22:06with people because they get their

2:22:08information from so many different

2:22:09sources. So

2:22:10>> Sure.

2:22:13>> I just want to clarify with u the

2:22:15emergency alerts. We sent that out to

2:22:17all of our water customers. So, if

2:22:19you're the primary contact, primary

2:22:21email, that sort of thing on the water

2:22:22bill, those are the people who got the

2:22:25text alerts, the voicemail alerts. So,

2:22:27not everybody throughout the community.

2:22:28I think a lot of people are thinking

2:22:29that we would utilize the uh emergency

2:22:31alert system through Seduit County and

2:22:34they have u I guess standards, protocols

2:22:37that uh boil water does not rise to the

2:22:39level of using the emergency alerts.

2:22:41Those are for life safety,

2:22:43life-threatening incidents. So, we

2:22:45thought in 2021 that that's a system we

2:22:47were going to use. We learned back then

2:22:49that that was an issue and we didn't

2:22:50have a system to notify our residents.

2:22:52Had another boil water before we could

2:22:54get something in place. But since those

2:22:56previous two, we have implemented this

2:22:58system so we can at least notify all of

2:22:59our customers. And then, like I said, if

2:23:01you go to witchaw.gov/connect, we have

2:23:03uh signups for email signups for boil

2:23:06water advisories, emergency alerts, and

2:23:08lots of other things. So, there's lots

2:23:09of different ways we encourage people to

2:23:11uh connect with us to get those alerts.

2:23:13Yeah, Tyler, I appreciate that. Yeah,

2:23:14>> to your point, I thank you for that. Um,

2:23:18I had some constituents reach out and

2:23:19said that the communication was actually

2:23:22stronger than last time and much more

2:23:23efficient. Right. So, learning moments,

2:23:25we take these learning moments, we grow

2:23:27from them, and hopefully we do better.

2:23:29Uh, but to your point, I I think it's a

2:23:31clear distinction between those who are

2:23:34signed up as the property owners for the

2:23:36water updates. I live in an apartment.

2:23:39Um, I didn't get a communication

2:23:41directly, but I received one from my

2:23:43property management company. And, um, so

2:23:46I've now signed up for the boil water

2:23:48advisory updates, the drought updates,

2:23:50and the emergency alerts. And there's

2:23:52several other opportunities that they

2:23:54can get alerted for too, including the

2:23:56food and farm council. Um, so if we can

2:23:59just mobilize residents who may not be

2:24:02signed up by way of being the person on

2:24:05that water bill, it looks like we

2:24:07already have a mechanism in place. and

2:24:08just wanted to give you kudos, not for

2:24:10me, but from the community who said this

2:24:12was much more efficient and more timely

2:24:14than in the past. Um, when we're in

2:24:16crisis, I know it's very difficult to

2:24:18manage all of the things that are going

2:24:20on. And then with KDH, I don't think a

2:24:22lot of people understand that we can't

2:24:24we can't give the green light before

2:24:25they give us the green light. So, also

2:24:27kudos to the manager who I believe was

2:24:30really trying to manage communicating

2:24:31with us before the public. And I know it

2:24:34doesn't work out the way we always

2:24:36wanted to, but grace in these moments

2:24:38and acknowledging where we have gotten

2:24:40better is critical to encourage our

2:24:42staff to continue to figure out ways to

2:24:44be more efficient and timely with those

2:24:46responses.

2:24:47>> And that there just reminded me uh that

2:24:49that's something we learned with this

2:24:50system this time is maybe in our initial

2:24:52notice that goes out to water customers,

2:24:54we need to put a note, hey, if you're a

2:24:56property owner or have apartments,

2:24:58notify your residents because they might

2:24:59not get the notification. That's

2:25:00something we learned this time that we

2:25:02probably need to include in the

2:25:03messaging. And then another thing I

2:25:04found from some people is they called in

2:25:06like, "Hey, I I have a water account.

2:25:08Why didn't I get a notification?" Well,

2:25:10their emails had changed, like they were

2:25:12using their previous work email or their

2:25:14phone numbers. So, we encourage people

2:25:16to log into your water bill or your

2:25:17water system account and update your

2:25:19contact information so we can get a hold

2:25:21of you in these events.

2:25:23>> And that's what I was just going to ask

2:25:24you, Tyler, is is there a call to action

2:25:26to the community? because now I'm

2:25:28thinking I I don't remember what email

2:25:30address is tied to my water account or

2:25:32what phone number. So I probably need to

2:25:34check that too. So obviously we have a

2:25:36call to action for our public works

2:25:38department and it sounds like they have

2:25:39their lessons learned and next steps.

2:25:41And then I think the next call out is

2:25:43for the community of you know making

2:25:45sure that you're signed up for alerts,

2:25:47making sure that your information on

2:25:48your water bill is accurate. The other

2:25:50thing that I would mention is I used to

2:25:52work at the county and I worked in the

2:25:54health department and we were

2:25:55responsible for public health

2:25:56emergencies and they maintain a list

2:25:59serve of faith-based organizations

2:26:01within the community and I'd be happy to

2:26:03help connect you with that because then

2:26:05the faith-based communities send

2:26:07something out to all of their members

2:26:10which is a pretty you know wides so

2:26:12there's maybe other even entities that

2:26:14we can utilize even though I understand

2:26:16not the public the public um the

2:26:18emergency contact But there's other ways

2:26:21that I know the county because of public

2:26:23health emergencies gets the information

2:26:25out. But I just I want to share again,

2:26:27thank you to communications. I think you

2:26:29all did an amazing job. Thanks to the

2:26:31city manager. I know that you were

2:26:32communicating with us as soon as you

2:26:34heard something. And then thanks to our

2:26:37public works team.

2:26:38>> Tyler, to that end, where can people

2:26:40sign up for all the alerts?

2:26:43>> So witchaw.gov/connect, /connect. I

2:26:45believe we have all of our alerts, uh,

2:26:47advisories, newsletters, all of that's

2:26:49on that page there.

2:26:50>> Thank you. Yeah, I I appreciate

2:26:52especially the work that communications

2:26:54did in sending out to the water

2:26:55customers responding to 144,000 people,

2:26:58400 or 144,940. It's pretty incredible

2:27:02to be able to synthesize all that. It

2:27:04looks like to email subscribers, the

2:27:06city has 4,086, which is a very small

2:27:09number, which I know it's trying to get

2:27:10people involved and people often don't

2:27:12care until it directly affects them. And

2:27:14so hopefully to our friends in the media

2:27:16as well. Please let the public know on

2:27:19how they can engage uh with us. There is

2:27:21a question. So I just want to give a

2:27:22shout out to communications for the work

2:27:24on as much as we could disseminate,

2:27:26making sure that we disseminate to the

2:27:28public. I do have a question about

2:27:30communication with KDH, which wouldn't

2:27:31be a Tyler question, probably be a maybe

2:27:34Dennis or Gary question. I notice on the

2:27:37maybe there are two questions I have

2:27:39with KDH. Number one, um it looks like

2:27:42that we left a voicemail for KDH at

2:27:466:40. Um obviously we must have had some

2:27:49communication between 6:40 and 7:04 to

2:27:52them to approve. I imagine they just

2:27:53didn't approve it based on a voicemail.

2:27:55So, when did we actually have that

2:27:57initial maybe conversation with KDH

2:27:59between those two times?

2:28:02>> Um, the best I've got and I can get you

2:28:04additional information, but you'll see

2:28:06at 704 was when the KDH approved our

2:28:09plan to declare the boil water advisory.

2:28:11So, somewhere in between there is

2:28:13probably when we reached them. I you you

2:28:15mentioned the 640. We left the

2:28:17voicemail. I think that the next time we

2:28:19heard back from them was around 7

2:28:21o'clock.

2:28:22>> Okay. So, I know we maybe have some

2:28:24communication with KDH on the front end

2:28:27and maybe I imagine they probably have

2:28:29somebody working 247 in this role um

2:28:32when this happens and so maybe they just

2:28:33had stepped away from the phone at 640

2:28:35or is that typical for us to leave

2:28:38voicemails on for them to respond?

2:28:39>> We do have the authority. That's a very

2:28:41good question because I asked that same

2:28:43thing of what what what if this happens

2:28:45at 2 o'clock in the morning. They don't

2:28:46necessarily have somebody 247. we do

2:28:49have the authority

2:28:51uh to move forward with issuing a boil

2:28:53water advisory at our discretion and

2:28:55obviously under our best judgment. Um we

2:28:58still like to whenever we have the

2:28:59opportunity to absolutely touch base

2:29:01with them first. Um I don't think at

2:29:04that point in time we had much doubt

2:29:06that that's what we needed to do. Uh but

2:29:08that's one thing we've talked about and

2:29:10I've spent some time talking to Don and

2:29:12our staff about is uh considering timing

2:29:15and and how we do that going forward.

2:29:17Well, maybe that's something that we

2:29:18talked to our friends at the state about

2:29:21how do we correspond with KDH, you know,

2:29:23at the end as well. Um, I found out

2:29:26because I was at a restaurant who found

2:29:28out from a bartender who found out from

2:29:31Facebook about KDH. And I know that KDH

2:29:34may have released the information before

2:29:35the city released the information, which

2:29:37in this case, all was clear, all was

2:29:39good, the water was safe, makes sense to

2:29:42have people drinking it. Let's say that

2:29:44the reverse happened and I found out

2:29:46from a bartender who found out from

2:29:47Facebook that the water is contaminated.

2:29:50I have a problem with that in terms of

2:29:52communication to the city council who's

2:29:55supposed to be able to also communicate

2:29:57to the general public as well. And so I

2:29:59just hope maybe as one of the action

2:30:00items we figure out maybe a timeline

2:30:02with KDH um so that we can be looped

2:30:05into that conversation. Again, this was

2:30:07best scenario that it was able to get

2:30:08back and um the the water was tested

2:30:12correctly, but if there was

2:30:14contamination, I think that there could

2:30:16have been much more um challenges from

2:30:18that.

2:30:19>> I appreciate that. I'll I'll provide one

2:30:21quick comment. So, I was on the call.

2:30:23Here's what I think happens. Truly

2:30:25instantaneous information sharing

2:30:27because to your point, what I was able

2:30:29to gather when the advisory was lifted,

2:30:31we we were on the phone with KDH at

2:30:345:15. We had four tests remaining coming

2:30:36in at 517.

2:30:38They absolutely have to be the ones to

2:30:41lift the boil water advisory. As soon as

2:30:43we heard at 517, all was clear. Um they

2:30:47were hanging up the on the call they

2:30:50were going to issue the boil water

2:30:51advisory. It couldn't have been 30

2:30:54seconds later and I saw the media had

2:30:56picked it up. So there's and that's

2:30:58fine. folks were watching KDH website

2:31:02and instantaneously saw that put the

2:31:04notice out. I don't even think we could

2:31:06move that fast. So, I was kind of

2:31:07surprised to see how that went down to

2:31:09your point.

2:31:11Still things were we learned along the

2:31:13way and I appreciate what you said. I'm

2:31:15not sure we could have got in front of

2:31:16that any quicker on the release part,

2:31:17but but I appreciate the question. We do

2:31:20want to be as much in alignment as we

2:31:22can, especially with city council.

2:31:25I I just want to say um thank you to all

2:31:27staff public works comms um anytime

2:31:31something like this comes up. I know you

2:31:32guys are scrambling uh either out there

2:31:35or getting out of bed even with these

2:31:38alerts. So I I do want to thank all

2:31:40staff for their hard work on this issue.

2:31:42Again, you never hope for something like

2:31:45this and there's always things that you

2:31:46can learn from it, but um you guys are

2:31:49doing a lot of hard work out there. So,

2:31:51just again expressing my appreciation

2:31:53for all the work that you guys do.

2:31:55>> I appreciate that. And I I want to thank

2:31:57staff real quick, too. I'll tell you

2:31:58what, this is not easy on people when

2:32:00these things happen. Uh we train staff,

2:32:03we prepare for these things, even though

2:32:04we never want to see them, especially in

2:32:07what ended up being a real anomaly

2:32:09situation here, I would say. But they

2:32:11they take it personal. We have some very

2:32:13talented people that care a lot about

2:32:15what they do. So, it's hard on staff. We

2:32:18will learn from it. We'll move forward.

2:32:19But I appreciate that.

2:32:25>> Thank you, Gary. I see no further

2:32:28comments. Um, I just want to add one

2:32:30more thing. I think the main message is

2:32:32we wanted to get a debrief. Um, but I

2:32:34think that this is still going to be an

2:32:36ongoing uh debrief. Um, and I appreciate

2:32:39the detail uh that was provided at this

2:32:42debrief just a few days from that uh

2:32:45news conference. The main goal of that

2:32:48debrief is how do we not have this

2:32:50happen again and I know that you guys

2:32:52are still working hard on that. Um, I

2:32:55would like to see that information be

2:32:58updated on the website. Um, whether it's

2:33:02the timeline that we just received, um,

2:33:05as well as this clip of this workshop

2:33:10>> and mayor, thank you very much. As we

2:33:12move forward and to all council members,

2:33:14certainly thank you. During this

2:33:15process, we will be sending out a

2:33:17follow-up thank you to the community.

2:33:20Um, as well as about the call to action

2:33:22about ways they can engage for

2:33:24communications as well. And then we will

2:33:27be highlighting the information that

2:33:29we've presented today will be available

2:33:31on the website for everyone to have the

2:33:33debrief on this as well. So, we are

2:33:35going to do a community follow-up. And I

2:33:37will say that if you happen to catch the

2:33:40fact that this impacted medical

2:33:42providers, school system, certainly

2:33:45businesses, residents, um we did have a

2:33:48lot of good stories out there, people

2:33:50willing to provide water. We had

2:33:52communications from a billboard company

2:33:54about the boil alert. So, we had a lot

2:33:57of community pull together to assist in

2:34:00this. So, clearly a big thank you to our

2:34:02city staff. Um but we also had a lot of

2:34:04community partners who I know had a

2:34:07hardship but pulled together. So

2:34:09certainly an opportunity when we have

2:34:10struggles good to see people come

2:34:12together. So for the next 10 minutes we

2:34:16have two topics and we're going to go

2:34:19quickly through just an update on the

2:34:21bio

2:34:23nutrient removal construction and then

2:34:25we'll do one more on the drainage of

2:34:27Bleley.

2:34:27>> Yes sir. Thank you manager. Uh this is a

2:34:30lot better news story. I want to give

2:34:32you an update on the BNR project. We've

2:34:34uh talked about this over time. I want

2:34:35to let you know where we're at. Just as

2:34:37a reminder, this project uh became

2:34:39necessary in response to updated

2:34:41discharge permit requirements that had

2:34:44to be in place by 2027.

2:34:46Specifically, phosphorus and nitro

2:34:48nitrogen removal limits have changed.

2:34:51And at the same time, the city has a

2:34:53desire to implement odor control as part

2:34:55of the project. The project budget of

2:34:59just over $387 million was approved in

2:35:02March of 2024 by the city council uh

2:35:05along with an awarding of one of the

2:35:07construction packages of that time.

2:35:09Somewhere around $60 million of that

2:35:11budget is dedicated specifically to odor

2:35:13control. We didn't start out that way.

2:35:15This again uh was a

2:35:19mandate from uh through KDH and EPA to

2:35:23remove nutrients from our wastewater

2:35:25stream. We took the opportunity as we

2:35:27worked through developing this project

2:35:29and and finding financing for it uh to

2:35:32do everything we can to impact the odor

2:35:34issues that have been there for a long

2:35:36long time. Uh change orders for package

2:35:39two and three so far have effectively

2:35:41used up the budget contingency. Just as

2:35:43a quick side note, however, we do

2:35:46continue to value engineer the other

2:35:47phase of the project. cost savings

2:35:49continue to be identified and so far

2:35:52those offsetting upcoming changes

2:35:55uh will not require additional funding.

2:35:57So we're still doing good on the funding

2:35:58side. Project completion overall is

2:36:01scheduled for late next year. Some

2:36:04individual packages have had a few

2:36:06weather delays um but overall that

2:36:09completion date remains the same.

2:36:12Duration of the project is 65% complete.

2:36:14Highlight some of the work that we've

2:36:16done. and the primary clarifiers where

2:36:17we see a lot of the odor issues from.

2:36:20Two of the three primary clarifiers have

2:36:21been cleaned, rehabilitated, and have

2:36:23covers placed over them. The third one

2:36:26is coming soon. The digesttors, two of

2:36:28the four digesttors have been emptied,

2:36:30rehabilitated, and are back in

2:36:32operation. I might call your attention

2:36:34to the size of some of our facilities.

2:36:36If you look at that second picture and

2:36:38see the people inside that digtor, it

2:36:41just gives you some idea of the

2:36:43magnitude and the size of these

2:36:44facilities. That's how you get to almost

2:36:46$400 million in a project. The BNR

2:36:49structure, this is the main component of

2:36:52the whole nutrient removal we talked

2:36:54about. Very large facility. Uh the

2:36:57concrete for the structure is complete

2:36:59and has passed water tightness testing.

2:37:02The new thickening, I'll just run

2:37:04through a couple of things here without

2:37:05going into a lot of detail. The new

2:37:07thickening facility is in operation.

2:37:09It'll replace the old system. the

2:37:11influent wet well at the head of the

2:37:13plant has been rehabilitated and bar

2:37:15screens have been replaced. That

2:37:16influent wet well, this is where

2:37:18everything flows in. Uh, as we were that

2:37:21was not originally part of this project.

2:37:24We were trying to focus on the the the

2:37:26BNR components, the odor control. As we

2:37:29got into construction, we found that

2:37:31that wet well was in very deteriorated

2:37:34condition. Now is the time to make those

2:37:36changes. That is an additional cost that

2:37:37we're working into the contract.

2:37:39Hopefully we can offset it with other

2:37:41costs that we are not using. UV

2:37:43disinfection has been upgraded and

2:37:45expanded. Two of the four odor control

2:37:47systems. So along with the covers we're

2:37:50putting on the clarifiers. Uh two of we

2:37:52have four odor control systems being

2:37:54constructed. Two of the four have passed

2:37:57performance testing. We will see

2:37:59noticeable changes in odor by the second

2:38:01quarter of 2027. We are seeing changes

2:38:03already. We've got monitors on the

2:38:05perimeter of the the facility and we are

2:38:08seeing overall a change in odors. A lot

2:38:11of things can impact that. And while

2:38:13we're building this project around an

2:38:15operating facility, there's things that

2:38:18change daily. Some systems come offline,

2:38:20the odors can spike back up. Once we get

2:38:23to next spring, we'll start to see a

2:38:25really big difference. Upcoming

2:38:27activities, uh, the last primary

2:38:29clarifier,

2:38:31uh, we'll have the cover installed soon.

2:38:33The third of four digesttors is being

2:38:35rehabilitated. Aiation basins,

2:38:37centrifuge building uh will eliminate

2:38:41the old belt filter presses. This is big

2:38:44for us operationally going forward. The

2:38:47lab and operators area at the admin

2:38:48building will be updated.

2:38:51Um testing and commissioning current

2:38:53operations staff is being trained on

2:38:55each system as it constructed and comes

2:38:57online. We will need 13 additional staff

2:39:00required for all of the new components.

2:39:03Uh interviewing and hiring for the

2:39:05highest priority positions is underway.

2:39:07This is included in the current budget.

2:39:09That's all I've got for BNR. Happy to

2:39:10answer any questions.

2:39:12>> Thank you Gary for doing these updates.

2:39:15Um I have asked for this so that uh the

2:39:18major infrastructure projects get a look

2:39:21during workshop uh not just when we have

2:39:23change orders. So, thank you for the

2:39:26work on the BNR and you're going to move

2:39:27on to Bleley.

2:39:30>> I'm going to kick this off and then I'm

2:39:31going to let Paul take this. I have been

2:39:33with the city for 31 years, started our

2:39:36construction group. I've been involved a

2:39:38lot of designing and building projects.

2:39:39I can remember back in the first couple

2:39:41months I worked here about Bleley

2:39:43drainage. It's been an issue for a long

2:39:45time. This neighborhood was built

2:39:47effectively in an old creek bed. Um, if

2:39:50you've ever gone on First Street and

2:39:53stood at Bleley and looked at both ways,

2:39:55you're standing in a valley, you can get

2:39:56why there's been drainage concerns here.

2:39:59It has been a life safety risk issue for

2:40:02many, many years. Uh, we've talked about

2:40:05over the over the course of time trying

2:40:07to find a way to address the drainage

2:40:09issues. Cost has been a factor. In 2017,

2:40:12the city council implemented a $1 base

2:40:14rate uh addition to the storm water

2:40:18utility fee. We've used that $1 increase

2:40:21since that time effectively to build up

2:40:24funding for this project. $36 million

2:40:26Paul will talk about. He's going to talk

2:40:28you through the phases where we've been,

2:40:30where we're going. This is an issue that

2:40:32we have been trying to address for a

2:40:34long time. I'm just want to say one last

2:40:35thing. Projects like this, big projects

2:40:38like this do impact the neighborhood.

2:40:40They impact the neighbors. We know that.

2:40:43We are sensitive to that. We will

2:40:44continue to be. Um we've had great

2:40:47conversations with Council Member

2:40:48Shepard, Council Member Johnson prior to

2:40:51him. We will continue to listen. We're

2:40:54going to continue to look for ways to

2:40:56improve uh going forward uh what

2:40:59construction looks like and the impact

2:41:00of property owners. Paul's going to hit

2:41:02on a lot of those, but I just want to

2:41:03let you know we're not done as we stand

2:41:06here today with the phases of

2:41:08construction that's still going. We're

2:41:09looking for every opportunity we can to

2:41:11minimize that impact to the adjacent

2:41:13property owners. I'm going to let Paul.

2:41:16>> Thank you, Gary. [clears throat]

2:41:19Um I want to remind uh city council the

2:41:21project limits the uh original study had

2:41:25gone up to um 13th Street near Claude

2:41:28Lamb Park. However, due to um after

2:41:31evaluating the level of impact and

2:41:33costs, the project limits are now from

2:41:36basically Kellogg to Elm Street as shown

2:41:38in blue. Um we've had quite a bit of

2:41:41history on this project beginning with

2:41:43public meetings back in 2022.

2:41:46Um we've held meetings throughout um

2:41:49additional meeting in spring of 2024.

2:41:52Um design of the channel began in 2023

2:41:55which is south um of Waterman

2:41:57[clears throat] Street. And then we've

2:41:59uh began some utility relocation for

2:42:01phase two in late 2025

2:42:05as well as um additional meetings in

2:42:09summer of 2025.

2:42:11Began property acquisitions for

2:42:13easements in May of 2026.

2:42:16We had an open house for those and then

2:42:18another public meeting as council member

2:42:21Shepard sent out um last Wednesday

2:42:23night.

2:42:25This project is about public safety. As

2:42:27Gary had mentioned, um Blackley um

2:42:30rescues require a different type um of

2:42:35response due to the velocity of the

2:42:37water, not necessarily the depth, but

2:42:39the velocity of the water. And during

2:42:42some events, emergency vehicles um can't

2:42:44get out to residents or residents can't

2:42:46leave their houses.

2:42:49People in vehicles have also been swept

2:42:51down um with heavy rains.

2:42:55I quickly go over this chart here. Um,

2:42:58USGS um have guidelines identifying

2:43:02hazardous conditions based on depth and

2:43:05velocity. And I'll kind of point to your

2:43:07attention to English Street there. Um

2:43:11the boxes, anything in yellow is less

2:43:14than a foot of depth and anywhere up to

2:43:18six inches can stall a vehicle or cause

2:43:21uh loss of control of the vehicle. The

2:43:24orange represents one to two foot and a

2:43:27foot will um float many passenger

2:43:30vehicles and then the red is more than

2:43:33two feet. So at English Street during

2:43:36this particular event in July of 2015,

2:43:40the depth of water was 2 1/2 ft. The

2:43:43velocity of water was 4.8 ft per second

2:43:46leading to a waiting safety factor of 12

2:43:49point over 12 and um anything over 10 um

2:43:54by per the USGS

2:43:57is a hazardous condition for adults.

2:44:01the proposed you know to the right of

2:44:03the screen the post construction using

2:44:07that same rain event uh English street

2:44:10the max depth is 1.21 ft with a velocity

2:44:13of 1.5 for waiting factor of 1.82 82.

2:44:17So, it's substantial um improvement and

2:44:20you can see that as you read down the

2:44:22table and throughout the rest of the

2:44:24corridor

2:44:27showing this a little bit different uh

2:44:29way. The um

2:44:32[clears throat] depth of the water shown

2:44:34in blue um lesser depth is lighter blue,

2:44:38darker um depth is um deeper. You can

2:44:42see some quite a bit of change there

2:44:44with the proposed improvements there

2:44:47towards the center of the screen at

2:44:48Robinson School south of Central.

2:44:52And you can see a lot more light blue as

2:44:54the proposed uh improvements are

2:44:57completed.

2:45:00Mentioned the project phasing. Phase one

2:45:02was between Waterman and Kellogg which

2:45:03rebuilt the channel. That is

2:45:05substantially complete. Phase two will

2:45:09um construct sewer and reconstruct the

2:45:12sewer and water utilities from Waterman

2:45:14to Second Street. That project is uh

2:45:17anticipate anticipated begin in 2027

2:45:21with the blue phase and I'll get into

2:45:23these a little bit more starting in

2:45:25quarter 3 of 2027 that were actually

2:45:27construct the storm water box.

2:45:30>> Hey Paul, quick question on phase one.

2:45:32Um I drove by there this weekend and it

2:45:34looks pretty much done. However, there

2:45:36was some what looked like a railing. Is

2:45:40there going to be railing on that?

2:45:42>> There will be a more um yes, permanent

2:45:44railing that will be put on that. Yes,

2:45:46right now it's 2x4s, I believe. So, but

2:45:48there there will be a more permanent

2:45:50railing railing installed on top of that

2:45:52wall.

2:45:53>> How much was phase one?

2:45:55>> I will get to that here at the last

2:45:57towards the end of the slides here.

2:45:59Mayor, um phase two, as I mentioned, so

2:46:02this uh this drawing here is a 3D view.

2:46:05Um the brown of course is under the

2:46:07grass and the two green um pipes are

2:46:11sanitary sewer that we will be

2:46:13constructed and the two blue pipes are

2:46:16uh new water lines and the red

2:46:18identifies the u rightway slash public

2:46:22property lines. Uh trees within the

2:46:24rideway will be uh removed with the

2:46:27project to install the box. Um and then

2:46:30we will also put some um access roads on

2:46:34either side of Bleley Street and I will

2:46:36show that in a little bit more detail.

2:46:38So this is an extensive uh project as

2:46:41Gary mentioned um and [clears throat] we

2:46:45will be going block by block.

2:46:47Installation will be slow. Um dis

2:46:50disruption to the residents within that

2:46:52block will last four to five months. As

2:46:55council member Shepard had mentioned at

2:46:57the meeting, um he had met with quite a

2:47:00few folks. Staff is exploring um with

2:47:03the consultant whether or not there are

2:47:05any ways to reduce the amount of time

2:47:06that residents will be um you know will

2:47:10experience the disruption. So we will

2:47:12continue to work through that with the

2:47:15consultant.

2:47:18I mentioned easement acquisitions. We

2:47:20have approximately 70% of the easements

2:47:23required for the project as shown in

2:47:26green. And these easements are really um

2:47:30needed to construct these temporary

2:47:32roads on either side of Bleley Street.

2:47:34These temporary roads will provide

2:47:36access to the you know driveways of the

2:47:38residents

2:47:40as well as we have met with Witchaw Fire

2:47:43and EMS. Um although you can't take a

2:47:45large truck down there, they can get

2:47:47their squad trucks down and it would be

2:47:49accessible for uh ambulance service to

2:47:52drive down those. Speaking, you know,

2:47:54hearing from the public, we want to

2:47:56limit, you know, who drives down those

2:47:58roads. I can't imagine anybody with the

2:48:00exception of the residents would be on

2:48:02those, but we will um look at signage to

2:48:04uh prevent anybody else that might want

2:48:07to cut down through Bleley and use those

2:48:09access roads. other than residents.

2:48:13[clears throat] We have worked with the

2:48:14residents quite extensively. We um on

2:48:17trees especially on private property um

2:48:20you know anytime we can protect the root

2:48:24zone in green if we don't have much much

2:48:27excavation that's a good thing. The

2:48:30yellow would require some uh root

2:48:34pruning as well as some of the canopy

2:48:37pruning to hopefully salvage that tree.

2:48:40And anything in red, um we would

2:48:42recommend that the tree be removed. Um

2:48:45you know, if it wasn't, it may live for

2:48:49a year or two, but damage to the root

2:48:51structure, the last thing we'd want to

2:48:52do is have a windstorm and then, you

2:48:55know, it blow over. So we have done

2:48:57everything we can to uh minimize the

2:49:00impact of any trees that might be on on

2:49:03private property.

2:49:05We have a tree planting replacement pro

2:49:08uh tree replanting or replacement

2:49:13design with the project. We have worked

2:49:15with um area residents to talk and to

2:49:19talk about you know species of trees

2:49:21that they might want back spacing of

2:49:23trees etc. So, we will continue to work

2:49:26with those residents who may lose trees

2:49:29throughout this process.

2:49:33Whoa, that is small. It's a project cost

2:49:36to date. I apologize for that, mayor.

2:49:39The uh the um phase one construction, we

2:49:43are estimated that to be um just a

2:49:46little over $6.5 million at this time.

2:49:50And then other design costs, etc. Um we

2:49:54are approximately 9 million um a little

2:49:57over $9 million at this time to project

2:49:59cost to date

2:50:02>> and the total project is 36 or 37.

2:50:06>> That's the next slide. So the existing

2:50:07budget of 13.8 million was approved by

2:50:10city council on February 25th of 2025.

2:50:13The 2027 through 36 adopted capital

2:50:17improvement program includes an

2:50:18additional 22.2 $2 million for a total

2:50:22budget of $36 billion utilizing storm

2:50:25water utility funds.

2:50:29>> How much has been collected in that

2:50:31storm water utility fund uh that started

2:50:33with $1 back in was it 2017?

2:50:37>> I don't have an answer for you that I'm

2:50:40not sure.

2:50:48Um, I can get you that information. It's

2:50:50kind of hard to [clears throat] give you

2:50:51exact number because we look at a

2:50:52balance between cash funding and

2:50:55and bonding part of the projects, too.

2:50:58But I'll get with our experts and get

2:50:59you a number.

2:51:04All right. Then one last slide I believe

2:51:07is the next steps. We will wrap up

2:51:08easement acquisitions. I mentioned the

2:51:11private utility relocations have been

2:51:13completed there between Waterman and

2:51:15Second Street. and then we anticipate

2:51:17final design of the uh remaining phases

2:51:21to be um provided to us in October next

2:51:25month.

2:51:26Um I want to say thank you to Council

2:51:28Member Sheepard for um working alongside

2:51:32with public works and hosting a couple

2:51:34of um listening sessions. Um but also

2:51:38we've been getting emails as well. I

2:51:40think other individuals even in

2:51:42community um drive through this area and

2:51:45so they have they may not know uh that

2:51:48timeline that you provided. So thank you

2:51:50for providing a timeline. Um the scope

2:51:54of this work is extensive. It's a $36

2:51:58million project. Um I wanted to know if

2:52:02there have been any considerations to

2:52:04reduce the scope during this time frame.

2:52:08We had originally and we have you know I

2:52:11think originally this project um you

2:52:13know this original study was back in

2:52:152018 you know 2022 we had an original

2:52:20estimate of hund00 million on one of

2:52:22these due to you know just completely

2:52:25taken out some of these properties total

2:52:28property acquisition instead of just

2:52:29temporary easements. So we have reduced

2:52:32the scope of the project. We believe

2:52:34this this proposed scope is where we

2:52:36need to be to make it safe for area

2:52:39residents and folks traveling through

2:52:41this area.

2:52:42>> And for the folks that ask questions

2:52:44such as we see that phase one has been

2:52:47completed and there have been some

2:52:49improvements. Um however phases two and

2:52:52three have not. Um what is your answer

2:52:55to why phase two and three are still

2:52:58critical to this project working? I

2:53:01think it goes back to those original

2:53:02pictures and even this one where we, you

2:53:05know, folks either consciously or not,

2:53:08they get trapped in that water and then

2:53:10they're carried downstream. So, this

2:53:12will um which puts them at risk. It puts

2:53:15our our life safety folks at risk, fire

2:53:17department at risk to save those folks.

2:53:20So, um they responded to quite a few of

2:53:22those over the last 20 years.

2:53:29Paul and Gary, I just um couple of

2:53:32things. So, this project obviously has

2:53:35been discussed amongst the council well

2:53:37before my time. going back to 2022 is

2:53:40when I can see that we've started the

2:53:42public discussions with the community

2:53:43and I think many of my colleagues were a

2:53:45part of these discussions prior to me

2:53:47and I and I certainly want to share with

2:53:50the community that I understand the

2:53:51frustration of inconvenience and as I

2:53:54mentioned uh to public works staff

2:53:56there's many valid concerns that I look

2:53:58forward to working with you all with to

2:54:00include like how are we going to

2:54:01mitigate um concerns about the the

2:54:04toxins that might come from the

2:54:06constructions or how can we assure that

2:54:08folks with health concerns in that

2:54:10community don't need to be concerned

2:54:12that this construction is going to

2:54:14heighten their risk for for health

2:54:16concerns. Um, and then I also know that

2:54:19the trees are a very sensitive subject

2:54:20not just to this part of of our city but

2:54:24everywhere in Witchah. We know that we

2:54:26need our tree canopy. Uh, that said, um,

2:54:29I also want to thank our management

2:54:31fellows. They went with me to the

2:54:34protest that actually occurred right

2:54:36before the meeting. And I think it's

2:54:38important that when community is

2:54:40protesting, I think it's their god-given

2:54:42right. But we were there to listen. Our

2:54:43management fellows documented every

2:54:45single one of those concerns. I want to

2:54:47say it was a total of 36 concerns when

2:54:50they actually disagregated what the

2:54:52concerns were. Um we have also collected

2:54:55they collected the information for every

2:54:57single resident who wanted to talk to me

2:55:00directly and wanted a meeting. Uh I

2:55:02completed those calls last Friday. Um

2:55:04and then in addition to that I know that

2:55:06public works has already started looking

2:55:08at some different opportunities to meet

2:55:11people where they are. And in terms of

2:55:13immediate next steps to ensure that the

2:55:15community knows that the city is

2:55:16committed to them. Um, I'm going to be

2:55:18holding monthly meetings with those who

2:55:21um are interested in continuing the

2:55:23conversation. It'll be virtual and in

2:55:25person, but once a month I commit to

2:55:27doing that. I'm not going to commit our

2:55:29staff to that um because I want to be

2:55:31mindful of their capacity, but I will be

2:55:33there and I will be present. And then in

2:55:35addition, uh, we talked with comms last

2:55:38week about, um, surveying those on that

2:55:41Bleckley block as while I understand the

2:55:43entire neighborhood will be impacted,

2:55:45I'm I'm really concerned about the

2:55:47people's thoughts who will be directly

2:55:48impacted. So surveying what their number

2:55:51one concerns are or top three concerns

2:55:52are, and seeing from that data what we

2:55:55can actually address. So, um, I just

2:55:57want to reiterate again, and I feel like

2:55:59I do this a lot, but as folks are

2:56:00reaching out to my colleagues about this

2:56:02project happening in District 1. I

2:56:04certainly appreciate and value that they

2:56:06have relationships, but please come and

2:56:08talk to me because I'm the one fielding

2:56:10those concerns. I want to be able to

2:56:12hear from the community and I want to be

2:56:14able to address uh any concerns. But

2:56:19I don't believe that we should pause a

2:56:22project because of of its inconvenience

2:56:26when we know what the what the life

2:56:28consequences could be if we don't

2:56:30address this. And when we have children

2:56:33who water is coming up to their waist or

2:56:36uh our fire and rescue team is going out

2:56:38and they're saying this is a serious

2:56:39concern. I I think it's it's time for us

2:56:42to actually move forward. And I realize

2:56:44that it's inconvenient and I know that

2:56:46there are many concerns. I wish I had a

2:56:48magic wand to just complete this project

2:56:50so that it wasn't an inconvenience. And

2:56:52this is the tough part of government,

2:56:54making decisions even when people hate

2:56:57you for it. But our job is to serve and

2:57:00to make decisions in the best interest

2:57:02of people long term, not just now. So

2:57:05that's my thought process behind why I'm

2:57:07supportive of this. And I encourage any

2:57:09of my colleagues who have friends,

2:57:11family members in that area who have

2:57:13concerns to come and talk to me directly

2:57:15and we can work together on how we can

2:57:16move forward.

2:57:24All right. Thank you very much for

2:57:26letting us do those updates to give you

2:57:28a a flavor of all the work going on in a

2:57:30big city. So, it's good to uh have some

2:57:32great teamwork going on. Our last item

2:57:35today is economic development. So, I

2:57:37will ask Mark Manning to come up to kick

2:57:41us off and then we'll have a couple

2:57:44other presenters and then we'll open up

2:57:46for council input. This is a workshop

2:57:49session. So, this is the first of I

2:57:51think several conversations on economic

2:57:53development. I will also share with you

2:57:55as we go down this process some of the

2:57:58tweaks that we're making to the economic

2:57:59development staffing and department. Um,

2:58:01so we have, I think, a good opportunity

2:58:04to evaluate where council is on

2:58:06incentives, then how we implement it as

2:58:08staff with our new staff members. So

2:58:10Mark, take it away.

2:58:12>> Good morning. Mark Manning with the

2:58:14Department of Finance.

2:58:15>> Thanks.

2:58:16>> Uh, today, this morning, or still this

2:58:18morning, I want to lead off with just a

2:58:20very brief summary of how we got to

2:58:22where we are based on our policies and

2:58:24goals and objectives in economic

2:58:26development. Uh then uh I'll turn it

2:58:28over to Andrew with the Witchaw Greater

2:58:30Partnership. Uh he'll talk about uh

2:58:32maybe give you a broader perspective,

2:58:34talk about best practices and

2:58:35nationalwide trends, talk about our

2:58:37tools that we use here, some of the

2:58:39guidelines and the guardrails and some

2:58:40of our experience. Uh then he'll morph

2:58:43into some of the discussion that we've

2:58:45had recently particularly in 2025 and

2:58:47and and the bearing of or the relevance

2:58:49of that. And then we'll talk about uh

2:58:51considerations and things that you might

2:58:53want to think about in refining our

2:58:55policy. Uh so the furthest I have can

2:58:59been able to find economic development

2:59:00policy here in Witchaw is 1976 and just

2:59:03for pers for perspective at that point

2:59:07uh our objectives were to attract

2:59:09private investment and to increase

2:59:11community income and you'll see over the

2:59:13years that those uh two uh goals have

2:59:16basically stayed the same. We've just uh

2:59:18built on them over the years. In uh 2004

2:59:21uh we talked about enhancing the private

2:59:23investment to provide jobs. We talked

2:59:25about recognizing the importance of

2:59:27quality of life and economic development

2:59:30and we talked about recognizing the

2:59:32importance of expanding the tax base. So

2:59:34again we kind of refined and built on

2:59:36our objectives from 1976.

2:59:39In 2012 again we restated that jobs,

2:59:42capital investment and tax base

2:59:44expansion were important and we added

2:59:46references to the importance of regional

2:59:48efforts and we also talked about the

2:59:50importance of quality housing. So

2:59:51quality housing made it into our policy

2:59:54in 2020.

2:59:56And then in 20 uh 2020 again we we kind

3:00:00of expanded our policy to recognize the

3:00:02importance of global markets because we

3:00:04participate in a global marketplace here

3:00:06in Witchaw. And we also talked about the

3:00:08importance of neighborhood redevelopment

3:00:10from an economic development standpoint.

3:00:12And finally we talked about the

3:00:14importance of educating the community

3:00:15about the benefits of our economic

3:00:18development strategies.

3:00:21Sorry. Uh that we did have some workshop

3:00:25discussion in 2024 2025 that fits in a

3:00:28little bit better with Andrew's

3:00:29discussion. So he'll uh summarize that a

3:00:31little bit more. U what I want to move

3:00:34to now is our strategic plan which we

3:00:36created in 2025. Again kind of a

3:00:39formulation of the same themes. Uh you

3:00:41can see on this slide here that we want

3:00:43to encourage private investment, expand

3:00:45job opportunities. Uh we want uh we

3:00:48focused on housing options uh in this

3:00:50case affordable and then we also talked

3:00:53about h how we want to reduce city risk

3:00:55in our economic uh development uh

3:00:57programs. Of course we did all this

3:01:00because economic development is one of

3:01:01our five pillars. Uh we want to grow our

3:01:04economy. Uh so that's why we had those

3:01:07economic development goals.

3:01:10Uh last slide I'll present is I wanted

3:01:12to show you briefly our tax base and how

3:01:14it's uh important to target some of our

3:01:16efforts. Again, we want to expand the

3:01:17tax base. Well, our tax base is about uh

3:01:2170% or so based on residential

3:01:25valuation. Commercial valuation is only

3:01:27about 30% of our tax base. You can see

3:01:30on the chart above the same is true of

3:01:32uh zoning in our our city. zoning for

3:01:34residential somewhere in the

3:01:35neighborhood of 70% where commercial is

3:01:38uh considerably sizable or smaller. So

3:01:41why is that relevant? Commercial

3:01:43property produces property tax much more

3:01:46efficiently for us based on the way it's

3:01:48classified under the state constitution.

3:01:50Uh commercial property is classified at

3:01:5225% where residential is only at 11 and

3:01:54a half%. So again, takeaway just is

3:01:57expanding the tax base is

3:02:00more efficient or easier uh if we expand

3:02:03the tax base in uh commercial uh

3:02:07valuation rather than residential. Not

3:02:09that residential isn't important uh but

3:02:11commercial valuation is what generates

3:02:13most property tax revenues uh for the

3:02:15city. Uh so with that, Andrew's I'm

3:02:18going to turn it over to him. He's going

3:02:19to focus more on a a broader

3:02:21perspective, talk about some

3:02:23nationalwide trends, and uh talk about

3:02:25some of the tools that we use here at

3:02:27the city of Witchaw and what our

3:02:28experience has been with him.

3:02:34>> Thank you, Mark. Mr. Manager, thank you

3:02:36for the invitation. And council and

3:02:39mayor, thank you for our ongoing work

3:02:41together in economic development. Happy

3:02:42to happy to be here. And Andrew Nave

3:02:45with the partnership. Um, I'm the chief

3:02:47economic development officer. Uh, and I

3:02:49think I have the the great benefit of

3:02:52having the the history and the

3:02:54connection back uh being here nine years

3:02:57now to several of those iterations that

3:03:00Mark uh showed about kind of where we've

3:03:02been with the guidelines and the policy.

3:03:04So happy to to to pull back into my

3:03:06memory and kind of reconnect and and

3:03:08talk about where we've been. But I I

3:03:11love the fact that you all are asking

3:03:12the right question of where are we going

3:03:14with our economic incentive tools and

3:03:15our guidelines. So really appreciate

3:03:17that. We wanted to kind of start with

3:03:18the why. Kind of why do we do these

3:03:20things? This is threaded across um your

3:03:22work and and and your strategic planning

3:03:25work of why do we do economic

3:03:26development, but if we could just boil

3:03:28it down to not completely overwhelm you

3:03:30with with bullet points and numbers,

3:03:32these graphics, I think, do a pretty

3:03:33good job of showing that of why we do

3:03:35economic development. It is about family

3:03:37supporting jobs. It's not merely jobs.

3:03:40It is absolutely about wealth and income

3:03:42and broadening our tax base. Those are

3:03:44threaded across all of the the strategic

3:03:46planning documents that are already um

3:03:49referenced in your guidelines. The first

3:03:51couple pages of your guidelines walks

3:03:52through kind of the why we do economic

3:03:54development in those two. Certainly

3:03:56community pride. We're trying to expand

3:03:58the notoriety of our community and

3:04:00industry diversification is also

3:04:02important. But the the one that I would

3:04:04I would really want to make sure that

3:04:06that is called out specifically is

3:04:08they're all important, but the

3:04:11competition that there is nationally and

3:04:13internationally for wealth and income

3:04:16and broadening our tax base or or think

3:04:18capital investment. We are in a

3:04:20competition. You are in a competition

3:04:23with the 19,000 other cities in America

3:04:26competing for a revenue stream of

3:04:28payroll or revenue stream of new taxes.

3:04:32a a company is going to put that

3:04:33somewhere and many times they're a

3:04:36company that's already here and we're

3:04:37trying to convince them to do it again

3:04:38and to keep doing it again. You're in a

3:04:41you're competitors for us. You are

3:04:42competing for that revenue stream and

3:04:45that's that's the mindset that that I

3:04:47work from and I'd love to to continue

3:04:49with you all is that we're having to

3:04:51compete uh for this. This is this is a

3:04:53lot of narrative but um we we want to

3:04:55kind of why do we design economic

3:04:57development tools or incentives? How do

3:04:59we kind of come at those? you've got the

3:05:01this just the simple standard definition

3:05:03of what incentives are. But I've loved

3:05:06this quote uh for a few years that I've

3:05:07seen and it's a little bit old now. The

3:05:08freconomics guys are not uh top of the

3:05:11New York Times bestseller lists anymore,

3:05:12but I love uh that book and I love these

3:05:14authors and and really economics, the

3:05:16study of economic development. Economics

3:05:18is a is at its root a study of

3:05:20incentives. What we all learned in kind

3:05:22of freshman econ class, how people get

3:05:24what they want or need, especially when

3:05:27other people want or need the same

3:05:28thing. It's the same thing for cities.

3:05:31Absolutely. There's a competition. An

3:05:32incentive is a bullet, a lever, a key.

3:05:34It's an often tiny object with

3:05:37astonishing power. That's so critical

3:05:40for you all to to continue to hold on to

3:05:42and appreciate that this is the one

3:05:44thing that you have to influence the

3:05:47massively complex economy. All of the

3:05:49things that go in to our local economy,

3:05:51to the regional economy, the state

3:05:52economy, you you can't possibly

3:05:54influence those things. But this is the

3:05:56one lever that you have to have some

3:05:58influence in what a company or a

3:06:01nonprofit or an organization might do

3:06:03with their capital. So I I just remind

3:06:06that it's it's kind of obvious, but I

3:06:07think it's really important to remember

3:06:08this is this is your tool. It really is

3:06:11uh to help our economy. And certainly

3:06:12there's the goals that we've we've kind

3:06:14of talked about in other ways. Some best

3:06:16practices. Mark asked me to kind of

3:06:18share some best practices of what um

3:06:20what are kind of common uh economic

3:06:22development guidelines and strategies

3:06:24around economic incentives or tools. Uh

3:06:27there's two different groups here. So on

3:06:28the left is the International Economic

3:06:30Development Council. That's the National

3:06:31Association, the National Trade

3:06:33Organization for the Economic

3:06:34Development Profession. I won't go

3:06:36through all of those point by point, but

3:06:37you can see that they're they're they're

3:06:39very specific in terms of what do they

3:06:41recommend for crafting a comprehensive

3:06:44um quality economic incentive toolkit

3:06:47would be a stated purpose and targeted

3:06:50uh a targeted approach and a

3:06:52comprehensive approach at that minimum

3:06:54criteria and maximum criteria have some

3:06:56range of what you're looking for. Data

3:06:58collection is something that I'm very

3:06:59proud that this this city and our staff

3:07:01do a really good job of. On the flip

3:07:03side, there's another organization, a

3:07:04for-profit consulting firm called Smart

3:07:07Incentives, which is highly thought of

3:07:09in the economic development circles, and

3:07:11they kind of list out some of similar

3:07:13what are some of the key bullet points

3:07:14that we should look for when crafting an

3:07:16economic incentive uh toolkit. In fact,

3:07:19as a matter of fact, I'll be with uh um

3:07:21the owner of that firm, the proprietor

3:07:23of that firm later this week in

3:07:25Washington DC. So, I'm going to bend her

3:07:27ear a little bit more about, hey, my

3:07:28community is is leaning forward in this

3:07:30conversations. These are some of the

3:07:32best practices. But what are we missing?

3:07:34What are the new trends that we can be

3:07:36looking at when it comes uh to our

3:07:37economic development tools, some

3:07:40additional trends and kind of food for

3:07:41thought kind of where economic incentive

3:07:43tools are going. Um you're going to see

3:07:44there that the number of jobs per

3:07:47project. This isn't a this isn't a hard

3:07:49and fast. This isn't a perfect

3:07:50depiction, but as a general rule, and it

3:07:53makes sense intuitively when we

3:07:55understand with innovation, with

3:07:57automation and technology that there's

3:08:00more work being done, more output being

3:08:02produced with less labor. So that's

3:08:04that's becoming more common, not across

3:08:06the board, not in every occupation, but

3:08:07that's a general rule. And you're also

3:08:09seeing massive investments in capital,

3:08:12whether it's capital equipment, whether

3:08:13it's real estate, that is happening

3:08:15globally, not just here in Witchah. So,

3:08:17we're seeing the the average capital

3:08:19investment per project grow and increase

3:08:21and then the number of jobs oftentimes,

3:08:23not every, but oftentimes decreasing.

3:08:26You're seeing a shift from all-inclusive

3:08:27eligibility that kind of throw a blanket

3:08:29of it over a a project or a company or

3:08:31an industry and everyone uh is eligible

3:08:35to more of a target approach. What do we

3:08:36want to see as a community? What does

3:08:38our economy really excel at? What kind

3:08:40of occupations do we have that we should

3:08:42target those kinds of projects, those

3:08:44opportunities in a little more specific

3:08:46fashion? Cash and upfront payments are

3:08:49decreasing in utilization nationally.

3:08:51You all are a leader in that. Your your

3:08:53your predecessors on the council were

3:08:55leaders in that when we adjusted the

3:08:56policy a few years ago that we moved

3:08:58away from that maybe a little ahead of

3:09:00the curve. Uh that's happened

3:09:01nationally.

3:09:03Interestingly though, for mega projects,

3:09:05for major projects, the incentive awards

3:09:08are going up significantly. And I won't

3:09:10go through a lot of data, but some data

3:09:12I pulled this morning from site

3:09:13selection group, which is a national uh

3:09:15economic development consulting firm

3:09:17that tracks incentives nationally. 16

3:09:20billion dollars of incentives were

3:09:22offered on the projects that they

3:09:24tracked just last year across the

3:09:26country. That comes to an average of

3:09:27$25,000 per job that was incentivized or

3:09:32about $3.5 million worth of incentives

3:09:34per project. So there's a on on there's

3:09:37a scale here that's that's going up

3:09:39considerably for the kind of the halves

3:09:41and the have nots or the communities and

3:09:42the states that are really really

3:09:44aggressive with with economic incentives

3:09:46and and the places that are not. North

3:09:48Carolina is one example has a1 billion

3:09:51dollar fund and that's what North

3:09:52Carolina is not Texas. That's not a huge

3:09:54economy 10 times our size. That's a

3:09:56state that's a little bit bigger than

3:09:57our economy in Kansas, but they have a

3:09:59billion dollar a year incentive fund

3:10:02just in the state of North Carolina. Um,

3:10:04in our state, there's incentive awards

3:10:06and you you all know that incentives

3:10:08happen at various levels of government.

3:10:10Wherever there's a revenue stream of

3:10:11government, you can think of that as an

3:10:13incentive. So, there's some aspects at

3:10:15the federal level with our federal

3:10:17taxes. mainly at the state level. The

3:10:19lion share of economic incentives

3:10:20happens at the state level where the

3:10:22state taxes flow. And then certainly

3:10:24we'll talk about at the local level, but

3:10:26at the state level, there's been some

3:10:28pretty aggressive posturing and

3:10:29incentives over the last few years.

3:10:31Certainly, we're all familiar with the

3:10:32Panasonic project that happened up in

3:10:33the Kansas City area. This year, about

3:10:36nine months ago, in Oland Park, a

3:10:38company called Fifth Serve was offered

3:10:40$155 million of state incentives. We

3:10:44haven't had a project of that scale in

3:10:46our neck of the woods. We've been kind

3:10:47of runner up a couple times and had some

3:10:50near misses on some projects, but we

3:10:51haven't had one of that scale. But those

3:10:53resources even exist even within our own

3:10:55state. So, it's not just some far-off

3:10:57place.

3:11:00[clears throat] Mark mentioned kind of

3:11:00the history of kind of where we got uh

3:11:02from a goals standpoint, but just to

3:11:05remind you about the economic incentive

3:11:07guidelines themselves. This isn't an

3:11:09exhaustive summary or history, but it I

3:11:11think it does a pretty good job of

3:11:12depicting it and keeping in mind that in

3:11:142004 is when the actual policy was

3:11:17shared and it was became a joint policy

3:11:19between the city of Witchah and Cedric

3:11:21County government. And what you had

3:11:23prior to that was that you had

3:11:24especially in our industrial districts

3:11:26where the approval process for some

3:11:28levels of government programs are a

3:11:30little different. you had some

3:11:33situations where applicants would

3:11:35effectively jurisdiction shop or

3:11:37incentive shop or maybe said and I'm I'm

3:11:40going to mix up you know which entity

3:11:41was which but maybe the city of

3:11:43Witchah's application fee was higher

3:11:46county's permitting process was a little

3:11:47bit longer and so they would look at the

3:11:49two jurisdictions back and forth one of

3:11:52the things not in totality but one of

3:11:53the things that a shared guidelines did

3:11:55at that time was eliminate that for in

3:11:57the industrial districts there's no

3:11:59point to incentive shop now because the

3:12:00policies are the same. Additionally to

3:12:03that, because this is Sedick County's

3:12:05policy, obviously their purview is

3:12:07within the unincorporated areas of

3:12:08Sedick County, many of the other cities

3:12:11in Sedick County have adopted this

3:12:13policy because it's the county's policy.

3:12:16They've kind of adopted onto it. So

3:12:17effectively what you all have done by

3:12:19setting your policy, you have set an

3:12:21example across Cedric County for smaller

3:12:23communities like Park City, like Bair,

3:12:26like some of the other cities that have

3:12:28some they have their own authority and

3:12:29their own discretion and there's maybe a

3:12:31slightly different direction or tool

3:12:32that some of them want to implement, but

3:12:33by and large most of those cities have

3:12:36adopted y'all's policy for for these

3:12:39guidelines. So I think that's that's

3:12:40helpful and productive.

3:12:41>> Can you go back to that slide really

3:12:43quick? Sorry. Sure. Yeah. So this was

3:12:45updated back in 2004. If I am doing my

3:12:48math correctly, that was five mayors

3:12:51ago. Was that led by the council asking

3:12:54for a joint policy or was this at the

3:12:57city manager, county manager level?

3:13:00>> The the direction and the desire at that

3:13:03time was pre was before my time as well,

3:13:05mayor. I what I understood and what I

3:13:07believe to be true is that it was driven

3:13:10by the local units of government, the

3:13:12staff of whether it's the city manager's

3:13:14office or the county manager's office

3:13:16because of the jurisdiction shopping

3:13:17because of the applicants in the

3:13:19industrial district. Sometimes maybe

3:13:21they weren't even shopping for a better

3:13:22deal. They were just confused as to do I

3:13:24go to the county first, do I go to the

3:13:25city first? And so there was a desire at

3:13:27the staff level from my understanding to

3:13:29bring that together. And that's when the

3:13:31policy and I know that also prior to

3:13:33that the actual tax abatement portion

3:13:36that we'll get into tax abatement

3:13:38guidelines hadn't been touched in many

3:13:39many years. So 2004 think of that as the

3:13:42first time that we really did a a clean

3:13:44sweep and a refresh of the economic

3:13:46incentive tools. But the point was that

3:13:48it's a shared policy and it's maintained

3:13:50that uh since then.

3:13:53>> And maybe a question on this as well.

3:13:55>> Sure.

3:13:55>> Um is there any concern or what has the

3:13:58data shown because if

3:14:00other local municipalities are adopting

3:14:03the same tools that we are now. We're in

3:14:05competition with them as far as the tax

3:14:08revenue, keeping it here in Witchah,

3:14:10growing the tax base here in Witchah.

3:14:12So, is there any data that shows maybe

3:14:16the bleed from Witchah to some of the

3:14:18surrounding communities?

3:14:19>> I would Yeah, I understand that concern,

3:14:21Councilman. I would say that the data

3:14:23wouldn't there's I don't know of a lot

3:14:25of data that would support that. There's

3:14:26a lot of um instances of companies in a

3:14:30community in Cedric County moving within

3:14:32Cedric County to another city for

3:14:34incentives. When that does happen, and

3:14:37it has happened on occasion, it's almost

3:14:38always entirely about, and it goes both

3:14:41ways. It's not just leaving Witchah, the

3:14:43big city, and going to a smaller place.

3:14:45Well, I'm in a I'm in a this off West

3:14:48Street on a small lot and I've expanded

3:14:50my building as much as I can and the lot

3:14:52is physically not big enough for me to

3:14:55keep expanding. I need another 20 acres.

3:14:57There's not 20 acres on West Street. I'm

3:14:59going to go to Maize. Or conversely, the

3:15:01other has happened. We've had businesses

3:15:03that were in Bair that moved to the uh

3:15:06K96 corridor in Witchah. Typically,

3:15:09that's a real estate decision. In my

3:15:11nine years, I can't think of a single

3:15:12instance where a suburban company has

3:15:15moved into Witchah or vice versa, a

3:15:17Witchah company has left to go to the

3:15:20suburbs in Sedick County entirely

3:15:23because of incentives. It just I I don't

3:15:24remember an instance. Andrew, I just

3:15:26want to make make sure I understand what

3:15:28you said in in my mind because just FYI,

3:15:32so our policy is joint with the county,

3:15:36but that doesn't mean the 19 other

3:15:38cities within the within the county also

3:15:42fall under that because they're their

3:15:43own entity just like you guys are. Yeah.

3:15:45So Goddard may have their own policies

3:15:47because I, you know, I see in the media

3:15:49I see on social media Hayes Hayesville

3:15:52just adopted something for example. So,

3:15:54I just want to make sure it's clear that

3:15:55Sedwick County is an entity and then all

3:15:58of the 19 other cities have their own

3:16:00policies, I'm assuming. Yes. Am I

3:16:02correct,

3:16:02>> Council? Absolutely correct. Um,

3:16:05technically, I think legally speaking,

3:16:06it would affect the unincorporated areas

3:16:08of Cedric County is the two policies.

3:16:11Um, but many of the cities in Cedric

3:16:13County do follow this. Now, some of

3:16:15them, to your point, some of them were

3:16:17Goddard approved an RHID program. So,

3:16:19they were a little more interested in

3:16:20that. So absolutely some have taken some

3:16:22deviations. But I guess the point I was

3:16:24trying to make is the theme that you

3:16:25have set has has rippled across the

3:16:28county that you guys have led by

3:16:30example. You're the biggest city

3:16:31obviously and you're going to you've led

3:16:32by example with setting your policy and

3:16:34honestly I think it helps the smaller

3:16:36communities to know this is what

3:16:38Witchah's priorities are. This is where

3:16:40the largest city that we depend on

3:16:43economically. These suburban communities

3:16:44absolutely depend on Witchah. I think

3:16:46that helps them, but absolutely they

3:16:48have their own their own direction.

3:16:50>> Thank you.

3:16:52>> So, but yeah, that's just a quick uh

3:16:55kind of brings us up to where we are. I

3:16:57did want to talk about in the middle of

3:16:58there, we talk about the LIPA study, the

3:17:00local incentive policy analysis, because

3:17:03that's the the kind of the most recent

3:17:04deep dive that we together took. We we

3:17:07engaged the partnership engaged a firm

3:17:09called Atti Advantage. It's a national

3:17:12uh economic development consulting firm.

3:17:14uh they ended up subcont subcontracting

3:17:16with a a gentleman out of Meguire Woods

3:17:19law firm who's one of the country's

3:17:20leading site consultants and so they

3:17:22produced in 2019 uh some recommendations

3:17:25a study for us that did a comprehensive

3:17:27look at both the state level and they

3:17:28looked at four different states and at

3:17:30the local level so they looked at four

3:17:32different metros across the country so

3:17:34De Moines Tulsa Omaha and then

3:17:37Greenville as kind of a aerospace kind

3:17:39of outlier um they looked at four

3:17:41different metros and both the local

3:17:43incentives like tax abatement and tiff

3:17:45and c. They looked at those but then

3:17:47also at the state level at the state

3:17:48tolls and did a comparison and what they

3:17:50came back with was these six

3:17:52recommendations I would say um that that

3:17:55were basically this is what we would

3:17:57like to see ch what we would recommend

3:18:00keeping up with kind of the the national

3:18:02best practices and kind of where maybe

3:18:04our policy um gotten a little out of uh

3:18:06out of out of bounds. These were their

3:18:08recommendations and I'm proud to stand

3:18:10before you and say nearly all of these

3:18:11have been adopted in one form or another

3:18:13that over the the the very whether it

3:18:15was 2019 or 2020 or the subsequent uh

3:18:18updates that we've had in in workshops

3:18:21or to the guidelines. We've updated all

3:18:23of these. So the regional growth plan is

3:18:25our comprehensive economic development

3:18:27strategy that highlights seven core

3:18:29industry clusters in our region. We

3:18:31aligned your guidelines aligned to those

3:18:33seven core industries. adapting the the

3:18:35program structure was was really about

3:18:38aligning to state statute that there was

3:18:40many instances where we were far far

3:18:42more restrictive than the state statute

3:18:43called for. So we were kind of pairing

3:18:45that back or looking at adjusting that

3:18:46from a competitiveness standpoint. So we

3:18:48adapted the program structure. Adjusted

3:18:51the benefit to cost ratio was a big part

3:18:52of that discussion in 2019. Uh

3:18:54Councilman Tuttle, I think you remember

3:18:56that that that was a big analysis that

3:18:58we had to look at was adjusting that

3:19:00focusing on post performance. We've

3:19:01talked about that that we're not doing

3:19:02upfront cash. We're looking at

3:19:04incentives that that that trail

3:19:06alongside of a a project. Educating

3:19:08stakeholders is the one area where I

3:19:10would give us kind of a u maybe a half

3:19:12score in the sense that we've done some

3:19:14of that. I think you the city's economic

3:19:16development report is a really good tool

3:19:17in that. I know we saw a big uptick in

3:19:19interest from the public when we had the

3:19:20economic development report and I know

3:19:22that's being worked on again. Uh I think

3:19:24the partnership we're a big part of that

3:19:25as well. We need to do more when it

3:19:27comes to educating citizenry and the

3:19:29business community about these economic

3:19:32guidelines and the economic tools.

3:19:34>> Oh, I'm sorry.

3:19:36>> Oh, sure. Yeah.

3:19:36>> Um, do you guys independently of us

3:19:39evaluate the the benefit to cost ratio

3:19:42of projects after they're through? So,

3:19:44do you go back and look and make sure

3:19:46that they performed

3:19:49relatively well to uh what the

3:19:51projections were?

3:19:52>> So, your sta your economic development

3:19:53staff does that. We kind of talk about

3:19:55it with the 5 plus5 review which is

3:19:57unique. Yeah. That's a part of that

3:19:58process. So the partnership staff we do

3:20:00not necessarily now we do informally on

3:20:03the projects that we've worked on to

3:20:05make sure that they're in compliance and

3:20:06it's not just at your guys's uh

3:20:09incentive tools but at the state

3:20:10incentive whether it's HPIP or peak or

3:20:12the other programs that that company has

3:20:13garnered. We're looking over their

3:20:15shoulder to make sure hey did you turn

3:20:16in that HPIP application or hey you

3:20:18committed to this for peak where are you

3:20:21at on that? So we do that informally but

3:20:23we don't have a formal capacity. Your

3:20:24staff does that.

3:20:25>> Thank you.

3:20:27>> Um [clears throat] I won't go through

3:20:28again all of these just in the deference

3:20:30of time but again a lot of these were

3:20:31were utilized. These were some

3:20:33additional LIPO recommendations. Land

3:20:35acquisition previously was not allowed

3:20:37under like the TIFF statute or the TIFF

3:20:39um guidelines that was kind of brought

3:20:41back in in terms of uh the 2019

3:20:44recommendations. Um tenency

3:20:46restrictions. There was a lot of

3:20:47discussion about we don't want national

3:20:49retail chains. we only want local

3:20:51change. There was a discussion about

3:20:52tenency uh and and so that was

3:20:54incorporated.

3:20:56In the interest of time, I'm going to

3:20:57fly through these because I think you

3:20:58guys know these a little bit, but I

3:21:00think for all of us, it does a does a

3:21:02breath of fresh air just to kind of

3:21:03remember the tools that we have. Um so

3:21:05I'm going to go through these pretty

3:21:07quickly, but I wanted to denote and the

3:21:09reason that Mark was gracious to let me

3:21:10kind of break out the slides this way.

3:21:12Um that we have I think it's helpful to

3:21:15have a paradigm or a thought process

3:21:16that we have two different types of

3:21:18incentive tools. What I would consider

3:21:20this slide that shows our CI, our TIF,

3:21:22our star bonds, those tools, think of

3:21:25those as development tools. Those aren't

3:21:28necessarily designed in the in the

3:21:30statutes for an individual company to

3:21:33perform a a specific task like creating

3:21:36jobs or creating capital investment.

3:21:38It's really about an these tools are

3:21:39about a geography, about an area for

3:21:42development. They're trying to get a

3:21:43place ready. Now, they because of our

3:21:45tax structure in Kansas, they lend

3:21:46themselves to commercial development. We

3:21:49can get into that, but think of these

3:21:50tools as development tools more than

3:21:54this slide would speak to our what I

3:21:57would consider our job or our employer

3:21:59incentives. These tools are specifically

3:22:01designed in their statutes and their and

3:22:03their criteria to elicit a response from

3:22:06the company, a job creation response or

3:22:08an investment in capital. So, they're

3:22:10two they fundamentally do two different

3:22:12things, but I know sometimes it's it can

3:22:14be easy to to have them conflated or

3:22:15have the the public misunderstand uh

3:22:17what they're about. So, I'll just start

3:22:19with CD. I think you're familiar with

3:22:21CD. Community improvement districts have

3:22:23been around for since about 2010. This

3:22:26is an additional development tool that

3:22:28creates an additional level of sales tax

3:22:30on a codified jurisdiction. you create a

3:22:33boundary a district and there's an up to

3:22:35additional two cents of sales tax that's

3:22:38um produced in that area pro proceeds go

3:22:42to public costs there's a much wider um

3:22:44discretion of what those costs can can

3:22:47reimburse or pay for than under the tiff

3:22:49statute so it's this program this tool

3:22:52was brought about as kind of an

3:22:53enhancement to the tiff tool was it was

3:22:56seen as tiff was limited in some parts

3:22:58of the state so this tool was brought in

3:23:00to broaden that um can be you can see it

3:23:02can be for public improvements reimburse

3:23:04private costs it's a a very wide

3:23:07latitude of things that it can do

3:23:10eligibility for CD uh it has to attract

3:23:12development um obviously needs to

3:23:15promote um new growth uh projects in the

3:23:18central business district or

3:23:19redevelopment areas are prioritized that

3:23:21was from the 2024 workshop that you all

3:23:24kind of prioritize that we want to see

3:23:26CIDs in these areas first and foremost

3:23:28not exclusively we're not going to

3:23:30restrict but we're going prioritize

3:23:32projects in in these in the central

3:23:33business district or redevelopment

3:23:35areas.

3:23:36Um, in terms of risk considerations, the

3:23:39statute allows for CI bonding capacity,

3:23:42but again, our preference, your

3:23:44preference is to have a what you call

3:23:46payo, pay as you go method. So, um, that

3:23:49that's codified in our guidelines. Um,

3:23:52there's obviously some restrictions on

3:23:53if it's a sales tax CD, we have kind of

3:23:55a debt coverage ratio of 1.2 to limiting

3:23:58some projects that we we don't want

3:24:00projects that uh that are too small to

3:24:02probably cover that. Um and again, if we

3:24:05get into the debt instrument, which we

3:24:06don't do very often, there's a

3:24:08prioritization of of uh special

3:24:10obligation rather than geo bonds. This

3:24:13is just a a quick depiction of the CIDs

3:24:15that we have in the community and we

3:24:17have over 17 of them. The K96 C has been

3:24:20performing uh well and is uh probably

3:24:24had performed well was scheduled to last

3:24:27uh till 2035 and it was stopped after

3:24:30seven years because it uh it achieved

3:24:32its goals and it and was able to

3:24:34reimburse everything. So yes, exactly it

3:24:35met its goals far ahead of schedule. Uh

3:24:38we have 17 CIDs total only one the

3:24:41stadium CID is the only debt instrument

3:24:43CI that we have as a community.

3:24:46taxer group financing completely

3:24:48different uh tool uh one of the most

3:24:50common tools that exists in the United

3:24:52States in fact you can see there 49 uh

3:24:56states have a version of tax increment

3:24:58financing so I think it's important to

3:24:59know that this is an extremely common

3:25:01tool uh around the United States it same

3:25:04kind of a thing it's a development tool

3:25:06so it captures an area typically a

3:25:08redevelopment area or a conservation

3:25:09area an area that we're wanting to

3:25:11conserve and preserve and then it

3:25:13captures the incremental taxes above

3:25:14that the main distinction there is that

3:25:16it only pays for horizontal

3:25:18improvements. So, it's not as wide or

3:25:20the latitude isn't as broad, but it only

3:25:22pays think of roughly infrastructure.

3:25:24The other interesting dynamic that I

3:25:26think it's important for you all to see,

3:25:27it's not embedded in our guidelines, is

3:25:29that our tax structure in Witchah is

3:25:31unique because we don't have a local

3:25:34option sales tax. We don't use tiff the

3:25:37way almost every other city in our well

3:25:39certainly every other large city in our

3:25:40state does because most other cities

3:25:43have a local onecent or sometimes now

3:25:46two cent local tax and that can be

3:25:48captured in the tiff. We don't have

3:25:52that. We only we only have a dedicated

3:25:54tax countywide. The state the tiff

3:25:56statute in Kansas doesn't allow for us

3:25:57to capture that. So, all of the tiffs

3:25:59that you're familiar with are property

3:26:00tax increment tiffs. In Johnson County

3:26:03and in Selen County and in um Manhattan

3:26:07and and Douglas County, they're

3:26:09utilizing tiff with the property tax

3:26:11side, but primarily with the sales tax

3:26:14side. So, you see tiffs more common for

3:26:16retail shopping centers and commercial

3:26:18developments than you do here because we

3:26:20don't have that local option tax that is

3:26:23even eligible to grab. So, it's a it's

3:26:24an important distinction that I think

3:26:26frames kind of how we use these tools a

3:26:29little bit differently.

3:26:31You have guidelines uh pretty clear

3:26:33guidelines for TIFF eligibility. So, I

3:26:34won't go through all of those, but it's

3:26:35needs to support our plans and needs to

3:26:37enhance the quality of life. Uh fairly

3:26:39straightforward.

3:26:40Again, we've put in risk considerations.

3:26:42The staff have kind of called out what

3:26:44you have been enhanced enhancing your

3:26:46tools over the years. We have minimum uh

3:26:49requirements of of debt coverage of

3:26:51three to 3 to one. Uh developer needs to

3:26:54kick in equity of at least 15%. We have

3:26:58po we don't generally look at uh tiff

3:27:01debt or developer debt but we can look

3:27:04at that. And so those are the the

3:27:05criteria that we are putting in place to

3:27:07protect the taxpayer. We have that

3:27:08already codified in in the uh policy.

3:27:13As a recap of tiff, the city has 14

3:27:15different tiffs. You can see there, nine

3:27:16of those tiff districts are current with

3:27:18the uh the current increase of the

3:27:20property tax evaluation of $75 million.

3:27:23Um that's generated $2.5 million of new

3:27:26tax revenue. So we have successful tiffs

3:27:28that have closed out that have already

3:27:30generated um this this value back to the

3:27:33community and we're starting to see

3:27:34that. Oldtown is the perfect example of

3:27:36that. In fact, it's won a national award

3:27:39uh for its utilization and how it

3:27:41brought back a very underutilized uh

3:27:43area. Uh you can see the central and

3:27:46hillside tiff also al also transform

3:27:47that area by the hospital in less than

3:27:49four years way ahead of schedule. So

3:27:51there definitely is some areas where the

3:27:53tiff projects sometimes don't meet

3:27:55projections and sometimes those need to

3:27:57be rained in. But there's definitely

3:27:58examples of where they've performed to

3:28:00expectations and even exceeded those.

3:28:02This is a just a depiction of that

3:28:04central and hillside tiff. On the left

3:28:06is kind of what that area looked like

3:28:08before and then you can see clearly on

3:28:09the right the the density difference.

3:28:12Starbonds. I'll be quick about

3:28:13starbonds. So obviously this is a a

3:28:15major development tool for major

3:28:17commercial development. Um the

3:28:18distinction there is that it's this

3:28:20utilizing the states portion of sales

3:28:22tax. So that 6 and a.5% of state sales

3:28:25tax kicks in here which obviously uh

3:28:27changes the changes the calculus quite a

3:28:29bit. Um so it's the it's think of it as

3:28:32a super tiff. It's like tiff. It does

3:28:34the same things as tiff. It just

3:28:36captures that state's portion and it's

3:28:37more restricted on its use because of

3:28:39its aimed for kind of major commercial

3:28:42development. Um you can see there that

3:28:45the the criteria is not only outlined in

3:28:47state statute but uh the applications

3:28:49are actually approved by the Kansas

3:28:50Department of Commerce and the and the

3:28:52governor's office. Minimum criteria $50

3:28:54million. So it's not for every project.

3:28:57It's meant again for significant uh

3:28:59projects. Our guidelines have gone a

3:29:01little bit have strengthened that a

3:29:02little bit and asked for you know we

3:29:04wanting to see an increase in the city

3:29:05tax base with high quality development

3:29:07encouraging surrounding development and

3:29:08redevelopment as a priority.

3:29:11Again, we have risk mitigation built in

3:29:13uh to the guidelines already. Developer

3:29:15equity requirement of at least 15%.

3:29:18Physibility study is required by us and

3:29:20the and the state. And then um issued a

3:29:23special if if they were to consider uh

3:29:26debt instruments, uh we require a

3:29:28special obligation rather than geo bond.

3:29:31We have two star bonds districts in the

3:29:33community. Obviously, the one downtown

3:29:34on the river and then the K96 in Green

3:29:36Witch. You can see kind of the scale of

3:29:38those and the and the amount of

3:29:40investment uh that each of those two

3:29:42star bond districts have. Now,

3:29:44industrial revenue bonds. I'll I'll go

3:29:46through these because this again, this

3:29:48is our employer incentives. These are

3:29:49the tools that we have to generate

3:29:51whether it's job creation or new capital

3:29:54investment, new spending. This is the

3:29:56mechanism we have for that. And IRBs are

3:29:59a financing mechanism, but they're not

3:30:01your financing. It's privately they're

3:30:03technically from a tax standpoint a

3:30:05private activity bond. So they're

3:30:06private debt instruments that you're

3:30:08using your your mechanism uh to to bas

3:30:12basically implement. So that that second

3:30:13bullet point is the most key. There is

3:30:15no obligation for the city with tax

3:30:18abatement. I know you all know that and

3:30:19you've been continuing to to communicate

3:30:21that to the to the citizens. are

3:30:24definitely based on our guidelines that

3:30:25we have spelled out. And again, I would

3:30:27argue too that we do tax abatement in

3:30:30kind of two two mechanisms here. We call

3:30:32them IRB or EDX, but it's all property

3:30:34tax abatement. It's the same type of

3:30:36tool. And there's some form of property

3:30:38tax abatement in all 50 states. This is

3:30:40the most common economic development

3:30:42tool that exists at local government. We

3:30:44just have two separate mechanisms uh to

3:30:47do them. The abatement matrix applies

3:30:49both to the same of IRBs and ADX. And I

3:30:51think you guys know that there's just

3:30:52different criteria for how you get an

3:30:54IRB versus an EDX. Um, we can talk about

3:30:56that, but the the policy and kind of the

3:30:59the scoring matrix, if you will. What

3:31:01does the company receive and benefit is

3:31:03the same for both. And it's based on

3:31:06your guys's priorities. More capital

3:31:08investment, the more investment in the

3:31:10community, the more percentage of

3:31:12benefit, the more percentage of

3:31:13abatement. The more job creation that

3:31:15happens, the more percentage of

3:31:16abatement. And then based on the last

3:31:18couple the LIPA study and then the last

3:31:20couple workshops we've done we've really

3:31:22tried to encourage here at the bottom

3:31:23where you can see these kind of extra

3:31:24additional percentage points are for

3:31:26those behaviors that we're wanting to

3:31:28see is that company or that applicant

3:31:30utilizing state federal or utility think

3:31:33EverG or Kansas Gas. They using other

3:31:36entities benefits and programs and

3:31:38incentives too. So we're leveraging the

3:31:41city tax dollars with other tax dollars.

3:31:43We obviously we want to encourage

3:31:44sustainable development. talent

3:31:45attraction plan was was talked about in

3:31:48the last update being located in a

3:31:50redevelopment area, workforce benefits.

3:31:52So, all of these are things are things

3:31:54that a company can do and document to

3:31:56your staff that encourages a higher

3:31:58investment and a higher benefit period

3:32:00in tax payment.

3:32:03Again, the city is a conduit issuer.

3:32:04This is we are not responsible for this

3:32:06this debt instrument. Even though it's a

3:32:08bond, it sounds like a debt instrument.

3:32:10um the amount of the bond issuance is

3:32:12not the amount of the taxes abated. That

3:32:14that seems to get a lot of coverage in

3:32:16the media that when there's a new

3:32:17application for a tax abatement, it's

3:32:19the total amount of the bond issuance.

3:32:21And that's what's the numbers that's

3:32:23thrown out there in the public. We need

3:32:24to do a better job of communicating.

3:32:25That's not the same thing of what the

3:32:26amount of taxes are that are baited.

3:32:28That number is much much smaller. But

3:32:30that oftentimes just carries uh carries

3:32:33the in in the article.

3:32:35The other thing [clears throat] that I'm

3:32:36really proud of is that your staff does

3:32:37this exemptions are a five plus five.

3:32:40That's not call called out in the state

3:32:42statute. It's a 10-year tax abatement.

3:32:45The state leaves latitude for however

3:32:47you enforce that. How we enforce it is

3:32:49in year five is when your staff will do

3:32:51a review and make sure did that company

3:32:54provide and and commit to what they said

3:32:56they were going to do. Did they actually

3:32:57perform on what they said? And then

3:32:59their encouragement of the next five

3:33:01years after that. That's not required in

3:33:03the state statute. something that we

3:33:04have asked our applicants to adhere to

3:33:06and I think it's a good policy. In fact,

3:33:08it's been called out by other

3:33:10organizations as we have one of the

3:33:12better um clawbacks and economic

3:33:15incentive guidelines. Yes, Councilman.

3:33:17>> Um are there other are there some that

3:33:20are maybe three years and six year look

3:33:22back? Do we have any examples of

3:33:24anything like that or is it kind of the

3:33:26five and five uh best practice

3:33:29throughout? I would say the most common

3:33:30is to look back at the end of the

3:33:32abatement period or it is it is not

3:33:35uncommon for typically when you're

3:33:37seeing tax abatements you're seeing in

3:33:38much smaller cities than Witchah and so

3:33:41where we have dozens of these other

3:33:43cities have one or two and so it's not

3:33:45uncommon for them to do an annual review

3:33:47or an annual ask of where are you at on

3:33:49your job creation where you at on your

3:33:51spending where you at on your capital

3:33:52investment typically because they they

3:33:54know that company in town at the edge of

3:33:56town they have a pretty good

3:33:57relationship with them or they know

3:33:59them. So, there are absolutely cities

3:34:00that do it annually. Um,

3:34:04there's I don't know of any that do it

3:34:05at the three or the the multi I know

3:34:07there's plenty of cities that wait till

3:34:08the end of the 10-year tax abatement and

3:34:10look back then is also common.

3:34:13>> Thank you.

3:34:16>> So, we talked about the kind of the

3:34:17staff review.

3:34:19I wanted to give you just rather than

3:34:20all of the data that's thrown at you. I

3:34:21know it's been a long day. So, a couple

3:34:23just anecdotal testimonials of the

3:34:26effectiveness of this tool. You've got a

3:34:28lot of examples out there, but I wanted

3:34:30I know that this has been an impactful

3:34:32tool and impactful benefit to our

3:34:34economic development uh strategies. And

3:34:36so Alex Aila is the a partner with the

3:34:40capital group that's the think of them

3:34:41as the parent company or the owner of

3:34:43JTM foods which is at 21st and 135. And

3:34:46so, um, they looked all across the

3:34:48country, did a heavy analysis, and what

3:34:50they found was the flexibility and the

3:34:53resourcefulness and the responsiveness

3:34:55of this community and largely city hall.

3:34:58They didn't find that in most of the

3:34:59East Coast and other larger cities in

3:35:01the Midwest that they they worked with.

3:35:03Yes, the tax abatement financially was a

3:35:05benefit to them, but that engagement

3:35:06with with your staff and with your team

3:35:08was was even more even more important.

3:35:11And and again, I asked him to kind of

3:35:12call that out just as a testimonial

3:35:14quote that this tool did have bearing on

3:35:16their being located here. Obviously,

3:35:19more locally in southeast Witchah, the

3:35:21Boeing Corporation has continued to make

3:35:23massive investments in our community.

3:35:25Um, and this is a considerable tool uh

3:35:28to their to their growth and their

3:35:29investment strategy going forward. But

3:35:31obviously they have multiple locations

3:35:32all across the country and the globe.

3:35:34And the fact that we have real property

3:35:36tax abatement and some of these economic

3:35:38incentive tools helps them make those

3:35:40investments to continue to invest and

3:35:42grow their witchaw site.

3:35:46[clears throat] Um we're getting close

3:35:47to the end here. So just a couple more

3:35:48slides on tax abatement. So this just

3:35:50kind of depicts um from IRBs approved

3:35:54over kind of that 10-year period of 08

3:35:56to 18 the estimated assessed value

3:35:58increase. So just the assessment value

3:36:00was $143 million. Of that the new

3:36:04property taxes generated kind of

3:36:05beginning in 2027 is over a million

3:36:07dollars a year in those property tax

3:36:09abayments. As of end of last year, there

3:36:13was about a hundred outstanding IRBs

3:36:17that are that that are that your team is

3:36:19evaluating and continuing to maintain.

3:36:21You add up the total capital investment,

3:36:23the total project cost of all of those,

3:36:25you're looking at $1.8 8 billion that

3:36:28was brought into this community that was

3:36:29leveraged into this community with those

3:36:31100 tax abatements based on the those

3:36:35projects the kind of the going forward

3:36:36and you know they're all going to some

3:36:38of them going to expire a different

3:36:39year. Some of them have one or two years

3:36:40left. Some of them that you just

3:36:41approved this year have 10 years left.

3:36:43But of that that kind of sliding scale,

3:36:46you're looking at $498 million of new

3:36:48assessed value based on those tax

3:36:51abatements or not quite $4 million a

3:36:53year of new property taxes just to the

3:36:55city. That's not school and county.

3:36:57Those several million dollars more of

3:36:59other jurisdictions, but just your

3:37:00portion based on those tax payments that

3:37:03are outstanding.

3:37:03>> Quick question on this, especially with

3:37:05[clears throat] the last point.

3:37:06Obviously each year we're going to have

3:37:08a different amount that comes back on

3:37:10the tax rules. Quick question for Mark

3:37:12and you have stand up. I imagine that's

3:37:15incorporated in our budget perform

3:37:19$3.9 million just over what what year

3:37:23would be differently?

3:37:26How do we track that in our budget

3:37:28documents to project for future

3:37:29earnings? So next year obviously some um

3:37:31IRBs are going to be completed that

3:37:33we're going to put things more back on

3:37:34the tax rules. Yeah, we do a couple

3:37:36things actually. The county when they

3:37:37provide us with our estimated assess

3:37:39valuation in June, they will identify uh

3:37:42expiring abatements and the valuation

3:37:44associated with that. And then we

3:37:46obviously have our own tracking

3:37:48mechanism that we know the IRB is

3:37:50outstanding. We know when they uh when

3:37:52they reach the end of their period. So

3:37:54>> So what's that projected for just the

3:37:552027 budget line item?

3:37:57>> What's that? I'm sorry.

3:37:58>> What's that projected for the 2027

3:38:00budget that's brought back in?

3:38:02>> Uh I couldn't tell you off the top of my

3:38:03head on that.

3:38:05town. That's fine. Thank you.

3:38:07>> Mark, does does the county ever miss one

3:38:10and not get it back on the tax tax roles

3:38:13at the proper time?

3:38:15>> Uh, I think they've had some challenges

3:38:17with some issues that we're working with

3:38:19them on.

3:38:21>> Okay. Do we track it also to remind them

3:38:24to bring it on the tax roles?

3:38:27>> We work very closely with them on

3:38:29resolving issues like that.

3:38:31>> Okay. Thank you. A follow-up question to

3:38:34that. Since you mentioned there's

3:38:35roughly a hundred that are outstanding,

3:38:37where is that located on our the city's

3:38:40website? Because I'm looking at uh the

3:38:42IRBs, but there's not a list of 100

3:38:46projects.

3:38:48>> Uh we actually that number is reported

3:38:50in our uh annual audit in the footnotes

3:38:53of our annual audit. Uh to your point,

3:38:56mayor, I don't know that we do list

3:38:57those. We certainly could. It's a lot of

3:38:59detail, but we certainly could list

3:39:00those if that's desired. I think at the

3:39:02very least uh this website needs to have

3:39:06much more information. Um the 100

3:39:09projects don't need to be listed one

3:39:12line item by line item if it's already

3:39:14in the financials. However, linking it

3:39:17to the financials would be that added

3:39:19step. Um I know I've heard from

3:39:21community members that want to know um

3:39:24what is coming back online um when that

3:39:26abatement is done. So what is a

3:39:30mechanism that would be helpful again

3:39:32for not just the county keeping track

3:39:35and finance in the city keeping track

3:39:37but also community members who are

3:39:39curious what's in their own districts

3:39:41coming back online.

3:39:43>> One thing to add to that mayor I think

3:39:44you're absolutely right and I know that

3:39:46the the city's economic development

3:39:47report gets at some of that as well and

3:39:49so I think that will be included there.

3:39:52Um the state of Kansas has a

3:39:54transparency database and it originally

3:39:57was created to maintain transparency for

3:40:00their state and pro programs but over

3:40:02the last several years they have added

3:40:03the ability of cities to inform and to

3:40:06include so the the citizenry can go to

3:40:09one place and find all economic

3:40:11incentives within the state of Kansas in

3:40:13one spot. And so I believe, don't quote

3:40:16me on this, but I I remember seeing City

3:40:19of Witchah tax abatements in there. Now,

3:40:21it has a number of fields and a number

3:40:23of things that could be filled in. And I

3:40:25don't I don't believe all of the

3:40:26criteria is filled in. What I'm guessing

3:40:28is that they probably pulled a report

3:40:30from the county and then inserted what

3:40:32they could or the data that the county

3:40:34report had is what I'm guessing. But the

3:40:36point is is that the the the portal the

3:40:39website exists for a citizen to go and

3:40:41find as much information. If we can

3:40:43continue to to maintain and input that

3:40:45data, I think that would be a good

3:40:47solution to what you're asking where

3:40:48it's all in one spot.

3:40:51Any other questions?

3:40:54So this kind of depicts kind of the

3:40:57investments over the last few years um

3:41:00uh kind of adding up all economic

3:41:01incentive tools. So more than 1.4 4

3:41:03billion in capital investment has been

3:41:05brought into the community through the

3:41:07combination of these tools. I think it's

3:41:09important to that second bullet point to

3:41:10point out that the vast majority 70% of

3:41:13these are again those employer

3:41:16incentives those tools that you're

3:41:17getting job creation or capital

3:41:18investment commitments out of uh tiffs

3:41:21and CIS and starbonds are very very

3:41:23important but they're a developer to

3:41:24development tool they're trying to

3:41:26accomplish something different within a

3:41:27ge geographic area and they can be

3:41:30considerable obviously our starbond

3:41:31projects are very very large but the

3:41:33vast majority of ours are for job

3:41:35creation and and for capital investment

3:41:39So to kind of wrap this up, the previous

3:41:42discussion we've kind of pulled from a

3:41:43couple different workshops in 2024 and

3:41:462025. You've had multiple conversations.

3:41:49Some of those conversations were around

3:41:51formatting and alignment of the various

3:41:54plans that we have whether they're kind

3:41:56of community development plans or

3:41:58economic development plans. So that's

3:42:00certainly depicted here. The regional

3:42:01growth plan has been has been talked

3:42:02about and added. Now we have Heather

3:42:04Schroers in the back of the room. We

3:42:05have the downtown action plan which has

3:42:07also brought in an element and a

3:42:09perspective on uh the gap of of

3:42:12viability that exists between investing

3:42:15in a very very expensive urban downtown

3:42:18project versus what market rates right

3:42:20now can get and so there's a gap there

3:42:22and so the the downtown action plan has

3:42:24talked about that. incorporating uh all

3:42:26of those alignment of plans has been

3:42:28discussed. Uh additional tools primarily

3:42:31in the area of housing and we're going

3:42:33to talk about a couple of those and and

3:42:35strategic investments in very uh

3:42:37designated areas or finite areas. But I

3:42:40was asked to speak about housing just

3:42:42briefly and I I would offer you that I'm

3:42:44not a housing expert. I've done this a

3:42:46little bit and so I can tap dance here a

3:42:48little bit but I would highly encourage

3:42:49you to to bring in Sally Stang and your

3:42:51housing and community development team

3:42:52to have those conversations as well. Um,

3:42:54but a couple tools that I think we've

3:42:56we've talked a little bit about and

3:42:58looking at especially when it comes to

3:42:59affordable housing or workforce housing.

3:43:01You guys have made great strides by

3:43:03waving building permit fees when it

3:43:05comes to your light applications. That

3:43:06helps immensely that applicant uh

3:43:08receive uh positive support from the

3:43:10state for those credits, but there's

3:43:13some still some more things that could

3:43:14be done uh especially when it comes to

3:43:16incorporating housing. Um the NRA

3:43:19program is the one if you leave today.

3:43:20This is the one tool. There's other

3:43:22ideas that I have, but this is one tool

3:43:24that I think from a housing perspective

3:43:26that we are leaving a tool on the table

3:43:28on the shelf. We've put it in the

3:43:30toolbox and we haven't we've locked it.

3:43:31We haven't utilized this. We used to

3:43:33have the NRA program. The neighborhood

3:43:35revitalization act is a very highly

3:43:36thought of program across the state.

3:43:38Many much smaller communities use it to

3:43:40great success. We used to have it here

3:43:42and it expired. It allows the

3:43:45flexibility of giving a property tax

3:43:47rebate to to an applicant. It can be a

3:43:51it can be an individual. It can be a

3:43:52family that's fixing up their home and

3:43:54they get a rebate of the value of my

3:43:56home is worth $100,000 today. I'm going

3:43:57to fix it up and it's going to be worth

3:43:59150. That $50,000 delta, I can get a

3:44:01rebate on that tax differential. And the

3:44:03beauty of it is it's it does the same

3:44:06thing as a tax abayment, but it's not as

3:44:08complicated or exhaustive as a tax

3:44:09abatement. Right now, with tax, you have

3:44:11to have a lawyer that's familiar in

3:44:13public finance and the financing tools

3:44:15and have that application fee has to be

3:44:17vetted through the cost benefit study.

3:44:19we go through all these steps as we

3:44:20should. Those are the right things to do

3:44:22for those those tools, but the NRA

3:44:24program skips a lot of that. It's more

3:44:26of an administrative tool in most cities

3:44:28in Kansas. And so I highly encourage you

3:44:30to think about that. It's also a really

3:44:32effective tool can be it can be a very

3:44:34fast and efficient turnaround for

3:44:36approval for a small business owner. So

3:44:38if you're looking to engage whether it's

3:44:40small business or residential housing,

3:44:42the NRA program can be highly effective.

3:44:45It's just limited in its scope and

3:44:46geography. have to draw a boundary

3:44:48around where we want it. But some cities

3:44:50in our state have multiple NASAs. We had

3:44:53one giant one in our city and there was

3:44:55some discussion or debate as to whether

3:44:57we should shrink it. I would offer up to

3:44:59you maybe shrink it to where it's most

3:45:01needed, but have multiple NAS if you

3:45:03feel like there's different areas of our

3:45:05community that are in need. That's

3:45:07there's nothing stops you in the statute

3:45:08from having multiple NAS.

3:45:11>> Is that property tax um I guess rebate?

3:45:15>> It's a rebate of real estate taxes.

3:45:16property taxes. Yeah.

3:45:18>> So, does that that has to go for rehab

3:45:22of the units essentially?

3:45:24>> It has Well, it doesn't have to be a

3:45:25rehab as much as it has to change the

3:45:27value to create an increment. So,

3:45:28whatever it is today, it could be a

3:45:30vacant lot and you just build a new

3:45:31house on that vacant lot. That in and of

3:45:33itself creates a new increment of real

3:45:35estate taxes.

3:45:37>> Okay.

3:45:37>> What I really like about it is that it's

3:45:39administratively approved. It's a little

3:45:42bit of a booger to get it approved at

3:45:43the front end because we have to to go

3:45:45through this process. The state statute

3:45:47requires you. You all have to approve

3:45:49it. The county has to approve it. The

3:45:50school district has to approve it. Every

3:45:52jurisdiction that's going to participate

3:45:53in it has to approve it now, which can

3:45:56be a little bit of an effort. But then

3:45:58going forward, not every jurisdiction

3:46:00has to receive every application because

3:46:02the goal is my go my hope would be that

3:46:04we would get several of these a week of

3:46:06a homeowner that's wanting to fix up

3:46:08their home or maybe a small developer

3:46:09that's wanting to do infill development.

3:46:11It would be more than would hit your

3:46:13agenda schedule per se, but it's

3:46:16administratively approved. It can be a

3:46:18very swift and efficient tool and other

3:46:20cities have seen that across the state.

3:46:22>> That's what I was going to ask you if it

3:46:24was a good opportunity for infill. It is

3:46:26that that most cities use it that way.

3:46:28>> Great. Thank you.

3:46:29>> And can you talk to why I I heard that

3:46:32it wasn't used at all. That's why it got

3:46:34dropped. Is that is that true or

3:46:37>> I do think it utilization was was um

3:46:40reduced. It got dropped about the time I

3:46:43got here. So I don't have the it's not

3:46:45fair for me, sir, to give you the full

3:46:46depiction as to why it wasn't utilized.

3:46:49Um I don't think it was communicated

3:46:50very well. the the cities that I've seen

3:46:52that have used it very well have really

3:46:54had to communicate and talk about this

3:46:56program as a benefit when somebody comes

3:46:58in to um get a new building permit. It's

3:47:01being talked about like it's highly

3:47:03communicated at that individual level.

3:47:06Um but I couldn't speak to I I do know

3:47:08there was some tension and disagreement

3:47:09of where it was. Um, it can have you

3:47:12absolutely should engage the school

3:47:13district in this conversation because

3:47:14they're going to be heavily involved

3:47:16because you can imagine as we utilize

3:47:18tools to increase residential that is

3:47:21going to have a much different effect

3:47:22and impact on our school districts than

3:47:25it does on a an industrial part going

3:47:27in. So, a conversation with the schools

3:47:29and I'm not here to say that the schools

3:47:30was the issue, but I do know there was

3:47:32some disconnect

3:47:34on should the program go forward, how

3:47:35should it go, where should it go

3:47:37forward, and then its expiration got to

3:47:39us. And then it's easier to renew it

3:47:41than it is to create a whole new one.

3:47:43And so, we lost the ability to to renew

3:47:45it. And so then I think it's just sat in

3:47:47my opinion, it's just sat dormant since

3:47:48then.

3:47:49>> It sounds like a great onbunk

3:47:50conversation. And then in addition it

3:47:53says for a period determined by the

3:47:54interlocal agreement on average

3:47:57>> I know we haven't had [clears throat]

3:47:58this 10 years

3:47:59>> average 10 years I think it can go

3:48:03longer than that it's not on this slide

3:48:06um I want to say it can go 25 years if I

3:48:08remember right but don't quote me on

3:48:09that. Okay. Thank you.

3:48:12>> So, high highly encouraged, we would

3:48:14love to help you reevaluate this or your

3:48:16housing team to evaluate this to a

3:48:18little bit.

3:48:18>> Can you maybe walk through a real life

3:48:20example? We had a speaker right here

3:48:22talk about second and piatt um a vacant

3:48:25lot that is not been active for 30

3:48:29years. Would that be beneficial for

3:48:32that? And how would that tool work? It

3:48:33could theoretically if that if that

3:48:35location that intersection was located

3:48:37in the NRA where the way I've seen it

3:48:39used before doesn't mean that it would

3:48:40have to be used this way here but and I

3:48:42think there are different uh sizes and

3:48:45shapes around the state of how the tool

3:48:47is utilized but an applicant would come

3:48:49forward and say um whether it's probably

3:48:52before construction or certainly before

3:48:54the project is completed and say hey I'm

3:48:56going to be putting a home on this lot

3:48:59and the participants of the program the

3:49:01city the county the school district,

3:49:03every jurisdiction has agreed to it. And

3:49:06so upon completion of that new valuation

3:49:09increase of that home being completed or

3:49:11a small apartment building or whatever,

3:49:13they get a rebate of those portions of

3:49:15every entity that's contributing to

3:49:17that. They get a rebate. Different

3:49:19cities do it different ways. If it's

3:49:21annually or semianually or the payment

3:49:23schedule, I'm I'm less concrete on my

3:49:26answer of the the frequency of the the

3:49:28rebate, but I know it's a rebate after

3:49:30the fact.

3:49:32I always thought very good fan of this.

3:49:34I asked about it right when I got on

3:49:36council.

3:49:36>> Yeah.

3:49:37>> Um asked why it wasn't and I think that

3:49:40the focus of it was to improve your

3:49:42house going from 150,000 to 200,000 or

3:49:46100,000 to 150,000. Um would it apply

3:49:49also to these uh uh developers that are

3:49:52putting in these threetory

3:49:55apartment buildings like like in

3:49:57district uh four there? um these would

3:50:01it would apply to them too going from a

3:50:02vacant lot to these they they would love

3:50:05that I know

3:50:06>> I believe it would

3:50:07>> it would

3:50:08>> yes I'm trying to think of ones in my

3:50:09past where we've used it that way and I

3:50:11can't think of one but I don't remember

3:50:13anything in the statute that says you

3:50:14couldn't be used that way so that's

3:50:16something to dig in a little bit when

3:50:17we're happy to help dig into that a

3:50:19little bit deeper but I believe it would

3:50:20>> that would s that would certainly insp

3:50:27one one thing to chew on and to think a

3:50:28little bit about uh RHID, reinvestment

3:50:30and housing incentive district. This is

3:50:32a relatively new tool. Just in the last

3:50:34few years, I think we've talked a little

3:50:35bit about it before. Previously, it was

3:50:37called the rural housing incentive

3:50:38district. In our jurisdiction, the city

3:50:40of Witchaw was not even eligible. Since

3:50:42then, they've updated the state statute.

3:50:43Now, we are eligible for it. Cities over

3:50:4560,000 in population have more

3:50:47restrictions. So, you have more

3:50:48utilization. So, I wouldn't say that

3:50:50this is a a silver bullet by any

3:50:52definition, but it does allow for

3:50:53subdivision infrastructure and upper

3:50:55story. Uh those would be the two areas

3:50:57that I think Witchah could benefit from

3:50:59this. Think of this as a tiff district.

3:51:01It's a tiff district for housing. That's

3:51:04what this is. It uses the same concept.

3:51:06It captures the incremental growth and

3:51:08the valuation of property taxes to kind

3:51:10of reimburse or pay off improvements. So

3:51:13it's the same concept just structured a

3:51:15little bit differently.

3:51:18So those are the two housing programs we

3:51:20can talk about. Certainly talk about

3:51:21other ideas uh as well. some other

3:51:23considerations that that have been

3:51:25discussed or concepts that were brought

3:51:27up. Um, under statute, the city does

3:51:30notice whether it's IRBs or TIFF and and

3:51:32and TIF districts are a little bit

3:51:34different, but we do notice other

3:51:36jurisdictions, be it the county and the

3:51:37school district. We're required to

3:51:39notice them under the TIFF statute.

3:51:41You're familiar that they accidentally

3:51:42required to be noticed, but they have a

3:51:4430-day um period where they can approve

3:51:46or reject the the the TIFF approval. So,

3:51:49a little bit more stringent criteria

3:51:52there with with TIFF. There was also a

3:51:53suggestion about kind of step down or

3:51:55scale to tax abatements. Could we look

3:51:57at a over a 10-year period of tax

3:51:58abatement, could that percentage of tax

3:51:59abatement be scaled down? I want you to

3:52:02know that that has been offered in the

3:52:04past. We have had applicants say, "Hey,

3:52:06I don't want to go from year 10% of tax

3:52:10forgiveness to then year 11, 100% that I

3:52:13owe. Could I stairst step it?" And we've

3:52:15absolutely offered that. I don't believe

3:52:17anybody once we got into the actual IRB

3:52:19financing and the bonding that those

3:52:20applicants actually move forward with

3:52:22their project. So I don't believe we've

3:52:23actually that would be something a

3:52:24question for your staff if we actually

3:52:25have had one utilize it. But the but the

3:52:28tool exists today that you can kind of

3:52:30stairst step that down.

3:52:32>> They'd be giving up a lot of

3:52:35tax abatements if they did that.

3:52:36>> Yeah. Well and typically what the way we

3:52:38did it when we offered it was it was

3:52:40based on their eligibility score. So

3:52:41it's not somebody that was eligible for

3:52:42100% tax abatement because there'd be no

3:52:44stair if it was 100%. This was somebody

3:52:46that was eligible for 80% tax abatement

3:52:48and then you you phased it to equalize

3:52:5080% over the 10 years.

3:52:53>> Does that make sense?

3:52:54>> Yeah.

3:52:55>> It just doesn't happen. You're right.

3:52:56The

3:52:57>> have the money up front though. I know

3:52:59>> a lot of them do. Yeah. But I guess my

3:53:00point is this was suggested as an

3:53:02option. It's the option exists.

3:53:05>> Um some other things that we heard. Are

3:53:07there objective strategic goals aligned

3:53:08with the current council parties? We

3:53:10think we'd love to hear from you all

3:53:11about that. Is that what you're hearing

3:53:13and what we're seeing that are already

3:53:14reflected in the guidelines? Should we

3:53:16change the eligibility or guidelines to

3:53:18incentivize investment in different

3:53:19areas in designated areas, more targeted

3:53:21areas? Um, what level of risk? We I

3:53:25think you are protecting the taxpayers

3:53:27and the citizens well, but that doesn't

3:53:28mean that that couldn't be enhanced and

3:53:30improved. Um, should the city adjust the

3:53:33amount of abatement the project receives

3:53:34kind of whether that's step down or just

3:53:36across the board? That's been uh

3:53:38discussed. So, those are some

3:53:39considerations. Last thing I'll say is

3:53:41in terms of next steps, we want to be

3:53:44engaged with you on this at the

3:53:45partnership and I know that the staff

3:53:46does as well. Um, we will help in

3:53:49whatever way you see fit. If that's

3:53:50engaging or bringing on a third party

3:53:53consultant like we've done in the past,

3:53:54we're willing to engage and see is there

3:53:56an aspect of a program or an area that

3:53:58you want a little more uh perspective on

3:54:01or national lens on. We're more than

3:54:03happy to do that. Engage. We want to

3:54:05remain competitive as I know you do. We

3:54:07want to have these tools uh to help our

3:54:09community grow. economically. So, how we

3:54:11can help you, whether that's at the

3:54:13partnership, we have a a committee uh

3:54:15that the mayor sits on called the SAT

3:54:17committee, the strategic advisory team.

3:54:18We've used that group as a sounding

3:54:20board group. Harvey happens to sit on

3:54:22that as well. Um we've used that group

3:54:23to kind of chew into these issues to

3:54:25give you a private sector group sounding

3:54:27board group. So, we're happy to to

3:54:28employ that if if if you feel that's

3:54:30that's helpful for the the conversation.

3:54:32So, manager, I was trying to go fast in

3:54:35the interest of time, but I am happy to

3:54:37answer questions or kick around more

3:54:39discussion at your your discretion.

3:54:42>> I would just say I appreciate Sorry, I'm

3:54:44just going to jump in. Um, I appreciate

3:54:46all of this information. It's a lot. Um,

3:54:49>> yeah.

3:54:50>> But I appreciate the conversation

3:54:51because we do hear often,

3:54:55good or bad, about the incentives or

3:54:59tools in the toolbox, how whatever we

3:55:01want to call them today. Um, and it's

3:55:03unfortunate that

3:55:06there has been some deals that have been

3:55:09less than great in the past. And so it

3:55:12kind I feel like it kind of gives

3:55:14everything a black eye moving forward.

3:55:18And so, you know, there's been some bad

3:55:20contracts and all of that stuff, but

3:55:24I would just be interested in in look

3:55:26digging a little bit more into this as

3:55:29far as what some of the other like

3:55:31Oklahoma City and I know those

3:55:32conversations are happening, what some

3:55:34of these other cities are doing because

3:55:36I feel like in in some respects, Witchah

3:55:39is just getting left behind because some

3:55:42of these other um Kansas City, Tulsa,

3:55:45Oklahoma City, you know, have figured

3:55:47out a A um but it also takes community

3:55:50support. So

3:55:52>> that's well said, council member. I I

3:55:53think that's true. And I would here to

3:55:55tell you networking and connecting with

3:55:57my economic development colleagues

3:55:59around the country, they have those same

3:56:00instances of bad actors and bad

3:56:03instances and where the projects didn't

3:56:04completely meet the criteria.

3:56:06Absolutely. I mean, we're not alone

3:56:08>> in that for sure.

3:56:09>> It just when we're trying to do good

3:56:11things now and we have, you know,

3:56:13businesses that are wanting to come here

3:56:14and do business

3:56:17the media doesn't always help us out

3:56:19when the focus has been on, you know,

3:56:21things that happened 10 and 20 years ago

3:56:23that are just kind of coming to the end.

3:56:26Thankfully, um but yeah, I just I really

3:56:30appreciate all of all of this and um

3:56:33would be curious what some of my other

3:56:34colleagues have to say.

3:56:36>> I would agree with you. I I think hiring

3:56:38a consultant and seeing what these other

3:56:39cities do would be very good. Um I I

3:56:43think we can benchmark it and give us

3:56:46some backing too. Sure.

3:56:47>> Of a reasoning. Yeah.

3:56:48>> And I'd also be interested in a step

3:56:50down for tax abatements for industry.

3:56:54You know, like Councilman Glascock

3:56:55mentioned while quite a while ago, 100%

3:56:5890% 80% 70%. You know, that and then I'd

3:57:02also be interested in the the

3:57:04Neighborhood Revitalization Act. I know

3:57:06it's a lot of work getting it up because

3:57:08you have to get everybody to agree, but

3:57:10I'd be very interested in something like

3:57:11that, too.

3:57:12>> Yeah,

3:57:14>> we can certainly look into that. So, I

3:57:15would remind you, and I think you've

3:57:17already caught it, that when you have

3:57:18the step down, if you're doing that cart

3:57:20blanch across the board, what you're

3:57:22effectively saying is we're only going

3:57:24to have a maximum amount of incentives

3:57:26of something less than whatever. And so

3:57:28there are going to be places where it it

3:57:30does not it is not uncommon at all for

3:57:32us to receive a request especially we

3:57:34get further into a project where the

3:57:36expectation is 100% taxment or 95% tax

3:57:40abayment is that's the only tool we have

3:57:42that we're at a competitive

3:57:44disadvantage.

3:57:44>> Yeah I wouldn't say it's the only tool

3:57:46we have but maybe in certain instances

3:57:48it is the tool that would be available

3:57:51but for a company like Boeing they're

3:57:53not going to be interested in that. They

3:57:55they want 100% tax abatement because the

3:57:56number of jobs they bring. So that

3:57:58should still be available to them. But

3:58:00in other instances, I can see where a

3:58:02step down would be a good thing.

3:58:04>> Understand?

3:58:06>> I just have a couple quick thoughts.

3:58:07Echo everything Councilman Johnson said.

3:58:10A couple years ago, I think it was my

3:58:11first year here. You provided me a list

3:58:13of all the incentives that other

3:58:15municipalities use. I think that was

3:58:16very helpful. It was through GWP. So

3:58:18that might be a tool that's already

3:58:19available. Um, I don't know the last

3:58:21time that that has been updated, uh,

3:58:23because I think it was an older document

3:58:25when I had received it, but that was

3:58:26really helpful.

3:58:27>> Yeah, it was in the LIO study and we

3:58:28were trying to save more of the data,

3:58:30but I'm happy to get you that.

3:58:31>> It was really thick. I just remember it

3:58:33was very boring reading, but it was

3:58:34really good. Um, two other things, uh,

3:58:36NRA program, very interested in that.

3:58:38RHID as well. Those are tools that we

3:58:40really haven't used since I've been on

3:58:41the council. We talk a lot about

3:58:43housing. I think those are going to be

3:58:44able to open up a lot of opportunities.

3:58:46Um really the other two things actually

3:58:48one of the public speakers this morning

3:58:51um one of the action items they said

3:58:53currently accessing these tools can

3:58:55require outside consultants and legal

3:58:56counsel and it talks about faster

3:58:58approvals for different projects and on

3:59:00page 13 you don't have to go to it or

3:59:02slide 13 it talked about how can we use

3:59:05these tools for small businesses a

3:59:06little bit more um often a larger

3:59:09company knows how to be able to navigate

3:59:10this they have specialized teams for

3:59:12this but we've had this conversation I

3:59:14think when Troy was here as Well, but

3:59:17about how are we talking to businesses

3:59:19when they come in with lenders and uh

3:59:21how are we equipping our banking

3:59:23community to be able to let people know

3:59:24a lot of these tools for small

3:59:26businesses, whether it's an unbudsman

3:59:28that can work people and navigate them

3:59:30through the process. I think that could

3:59:31be a useful tool. So, just thinking of

3:59:33that. Um last two things, I know we

3:59:36talked briefly about the county and just

3:59:37making sure that these things get back

3:59:39on rolls when they're supposed to. I

3:59:41think that's probably rare that they

3:59:43don't, but that's also lost revenue that

3:59:46could be able to add. And then the final

3:59:47thing is timelines. Sometimes we approve

3:59:50a project, an incentive for a project,

3:59:52and then, you know, we get a notice,

3:59:54well, they start the construction four

3:59:56years afterward. And so, if we give an

3:59:59incentive, if we go through a hearing, I

4:00:01want to see a timeline of, hey,

4:00:03construction has to start by this date

4:00:05because we have the community

4:00:06conversation and then the community asks

4:00:08questions. Well, hey, we haven't seen

4:00:09something happen in six years. So, I I

4:00:12want to tie some incentives to timelines

4:00:15to make sure we get these projects

4:00:16moving a little bit quicker.

4:00:18>> Understood.

4:00:19>> And to piggy back off that, um that is

4:00:22something I'd like to look at maybe,

4:00:24like I said, three or six years with the

4:00:25IRBs just to make sure that the

4:00:28project's moving along and they are

4:00:29hitting their benchmarks and then also

4:00:31sticking to their benchmarks. I know

4:00:33I've seen a number that have come before

4:00:35us. Some of it's understandable because

4:00:37of COVID fallout.

4:00:39>> Sure.

4:00:39>> Um but it seems like there's a been a

4:00:41few times where it's come before us and

4:00:43oh, they didn't meet their benchmark,

4:00:44but here's this other area that we can

4:00:47wave the the jobs benchmark because of

4:00:50this or that. So I maybe a little more

4:00:52clarity on that. Um I would like to see

4:00:56us look at a lot more about community

4:00:58benefits agreements with this. Um, for

4:01:01example, one of the things that I really

4:01:03care about is a safe route to school.

4:01:06So, if there can be a set aside, a

4:01:08portion of this will go towards um the

4:01:11funding that the city has to work on uh

4:01:15routes to school, school zones and

4:01:16whatnot. Uh, that would be something I

4:01:18would be really interested in as well.

4:01:21Um, the stair step I agree with as well.

4:01:25Um, I would like to see us maybe um work

4:01:28on some language that would encourage

4:01:30and maybe this is the um the NRA aspect

4:01:33of it, but hotel motel incentives for

4:01:37trans um for

4:01:39um rehabbing them for affordable housing

4:01:42or some sort of housing. I know I have a

4:01:45number of um hotels and motel in my

4:01:48district along Broadway um other parts

4:01:50of the city as well, North Broadway,

4:01:52West Kellogg. Um where something like

4:01:54that could help address the housing

4:01:56crisis. Um that's something I do think

4:01:59we definitely need to focus on. I

4:02:01understand the numbers earlier that we

4:02:04focused more on uh jobs and commerce and

4:02:07um some of that, but right now we're

4:02:09just in such a pinch as far as housing

4:02:11goes that

4:02:12>> um redesigning some of these so that way

4:02:15we can get more housing done. Um I think

4:02:18that is something that is uh I would be

4:02:20very um interested in as well. Um, I

4:02:24know I hear from some of our colleagues

4:02:26on the um the school board and the

4:02:30county and you might correct me, Mark,

4:02:33if the county can only turn down IRBs if

4:02:37it's an unincorporated.

4:02:39So, aside from that, they really have no

4:02:40means as far as protesting. Um, I don't

4:02:44know if it's necessary, but maybe some

4:02:48some way that they can come in and have

4:02:50some sort of say on a lot of these tax

4:02:52abatements that affect them as well. It

4:02:55might just be like, oh, a super majority

4:02:56is needed if they protest, but something

4:02:58like that.

4:03:00>> Um,

4:03:02I I think we could do a better job kind

4:03:04of defining IRBs and what we

4:03:08do. We want them to include industrial,

4:03:10affordable housing. I do like affordable

4:03:12housing requirements, but I am open to

4:03:14the conversations

4:03:16of um workforce housing and trying to

4:03:19get more workforce housing done as well.

4:03:21I think we need to stay away from maybe

4:03:23the luxury apartments and whatnot and

4:03:26just focus on workforce housing and

4:03:28affordable housing. And it doesn't have

4:03:30to be just affordable, but maybe there's

4:03:32an extra 5% in there or something like

4:03:34that if you

4:03:35>> and that would be absolutely how I would

4:03:36encourage you [snorts] to look at it

4:03:37from an inducement standpoint and try to

4:03:39the extent there's there's absolutely

4:03:42appropriate and good um reasons why you

4:03:45all as our elected officials need to

4:03:46restrict and to to rein in certain types

4:03:49of behaviors and habit and and

4:03:52activities. to the extent possible that

4:03:55you can refrain from restricting and and

4:03:58encouraging or inducing more. So again,

4:04:00the the simpler analogy is more carrot

4:04:02less stick,

4:04:03>> right?

4:04:04>> That would be the strong advocation I

4:04:06would give you.

4:04:06>> Yeah. And then maybe another little

4:04:09section [snorts] for infills. So that

4:04:10way again we don't have to build a lot

4:04:13of these, you know, the infrastructure

4:04:15on the the peripheries of the city. Um,

4:04:20I know we might have to have a

4:04:21conversation about the facade program

4:04:23with the C. I do think it was good that

4:04:26we moved it over to the CD to take away

4:04:28from uh risk of the taxpayers, but maybe

4:04:32we just need to have that discussion on

4:04:34to how do we define that a little

4:04:36better. Um, and then I guess two

4:04:39questions. One for the city manager. Um,

4:04:41do we have a timeline on when our

4:04:43economic um the new positions that we

4:04:46have in our economic development

4:04:48department come come on board?

4:04:53>> Thank you for asking. We should have the

4:04:55new economic development director on

4:04:57board hopefully by the end of October.

4:05:00>> Okay.

4:05:00>> And then we'll have one more position

4:05:02after that that they'll get a fill.

4:05:04>> Okay. Um, the second one is I know we've

4:05:06had some issues with the IRBs on the

4:05:09county side going through the um I don't

4:05:12remember if it's a treasurer's office,

4:05:15somebody over there. Have we had that

4:05:17communication with the county and do we

4:05:19feel comfortable? Is that resolved? Are

4:05:22they undergoing the proper

4:05:25um fixes on that? I know Commissioner

4:05:27Batty's been working on that as well.

4:05:33>> [snorts]

4:05:37>> Council member, we continue to work with

4:05:38them. They've been very cooperative with

4:05:41us and I think that we'll reach a good

4:05:44conclusion from that.

4:05:46>> You think it'll be relatively soon that

4:05:48we figure that one out?

4:05:50>> I don't want to commit to timeline

4:05:52because it involves our friends at the

4:05:54county, but they they're they're they

4:05:56understand the issues and they've been

4:05:57very cooperative with us.

4:05:58>> Okay. Thank you.

4:06:01Just a few thoughts for me. Um, first,

4:06:03thank you Mark and thank you Andrew.

4:06:04Thank you Andrew for joining us here

4:06:06today. I also see Jeff from the Greater

4:06:07Witchah Partnership and Heather. Thank

4:06:09you. Appreciate your time today. Um, I

4:06:11also wanted to applaud um, city manager

4:06:14Marshall for having an economic

4:06:16development department. I think this

4:06:18shows our commitment to our invest to

4:06:21investing in ourselves and growing our

4:06:23economy. It's one of our four pillars of

4:06:25our mission. It's also the only way that

4:06:27we are going to increase our re one of

4:06:29the only ways we can increase our

4:06:31revenue so that the CA city can provide

4:06:34effective and efficient services. So I

4:06:36really applaud you for being forward

4:06:38thinking and making this come to

4:06:39fruition. Um, I did want to just mention

4:06:43one of and it kind of got brought up

4:06:44during one of the first speakers on on

4:06:46public agenda, but one of the things

4:06:49that we did in the past that was wildly

4:06:52successful, I think, was we developed a

4:06:54landlord tenant task force. We had

4:06:57issues with landlords um, and that we

4:07:00were going to maybe take some steps and

4:07:02the community said, "Wait, wait, wait.

4:07:04That's not the way we want to go." And

4:07:06so we brought together tenants and

4:07:08landlords. And I learned really quickly,

4:07:10no one hates a bad landlord more than a

4:07:13good landlord. Um, and so I think in

4:07:16this case, no one hates a bad developer

4:07:19more than a good developer. And so I

4:07:22talked to city manager yesterday. I

4:07:24talked to Andrew about the concept of

4:07:26could we put together some sort of task

4:07:28force with entities that have utilized

4:07:31our economic development tools. We heard

4:07:33from one of the speakers today. They

4:07:35said our process is cumbersome, that

4:07:37it's not always consistent, they don't

4:07:39have a go-to person. I don't think any

4:07:42of us on this bench have ever utilized

4:07:44our economic development tools. I don't

4:07:46think in anyone on our staff have ever

4:07:48utilized our economic development tools.

4:07:51So having a task force from entities in

4:07:53the community who have utilized them

4:07:56would give us a better reference of what

4:07:58we can do to make our process more

4:08:00effective and efficient and more

4:08:02streamlined and more user friendly. um

4:08:04and also more fair and consistent. So, I

4:08:07would I would highly recommend that we

4:08:09put together that task force. It might

4:08:10be a great first project for our new

4:08:12economic development director. Um the

4:08:15other thing that I just wanted to

4:08:16mention really quickly is that one of

4:08:18the things that I've learned in the

4:08:19years that I've had the privilege of

4:08:21serving in this role is that when it

4:08:24comes to economic development, people

4:08:25get really upset. Um people have lots of

4:08:28concerns. They make lots of assumptions,

4:08:30but it's because we're not communicating

4:08:32it well. Um, and it's not our

4:08:34communications team's fault. It's that

4:08:36it's really complicated. I'll admit

4:08:38before I was in council, I couldn't have

4:08:40told you what a TIFF, a C, an IRB, a

4:08:42starbond was. And we talk to the

4:08:45community like we expect them to

4:08:46understand it. So, I think that we can

4:08:49do a better job. And it's more than just

4:08:51putting it on the website. I don't know

4:08:52anyone who's cruising the city of

4:08:53Witchah website on a Saturday night,

4:08:55right? It's we need to get the

4:08:57information out there in a way so that

4:08:59it builds the trust in our community

4:09:02because we do have a good process. We're

4:09:04conscientious about followup. We look at

4:09:07return on investment. We do all the

4:09:10things but people don't think we do. And

4:09:12I think that's on us. So that's one

4:09:14thing I'd like to see. And then also

4:09:16woven into that is sharing our

4:09:18successes. Um Mark Andrew briefly um

4:09:22highlighted it, but I'll do a little woo

4:09:23woo again. For example, the C at

4:09:26Greenwich Green, which in 96 um could

4:09:29have been paid off in 22 years and it

4:09:31was paid off in seven. And that whole

4:09:33corridor now is booming with economic

4:09:36development and the new Starbond project

4:09:38that'll be coming. And so, you know,

4:09:40that's something that we can highlight

4:09:41of this is a chance when it we can say

4:09:44this is how it worked and it worked well

4:09:46and how it's supposed to work. And then

4:09:48finally, I'll be interested in having

4:09:50conversations some of my colleagues

4:09:52discussed, but I'm going to be really

4:09:55hesitant for anything that makes it

4:09:56harder for housing. I know we need more

4:09:59workforce housing. Everybody agrees with

4:10:01that. But we need all types of housing.

4:10:04We need all types of housing, even

4:10:06higherend housing so that people can

4:10:08move up so that then people can move in.

4:10:11And so if it's going to be something

4:10:13that makes it restrictive for any type

4:10:15of housing, that's something that I

4:10:17would like to have a further debate

4:10:18with. Um, thanks again. I amen to a lot

4:10:23of what you said, Council Member Tuttle.

4:10:25I I agree with you. Um, I also had

4:10:27written down that um, we have projects

4:10:31that have worked extremely well and we

4:10:35have shifted our council meetings to

4:10:37highlighting amazing community members.

4:10:39And I and I think I would like to engage

4:10:41our colleagues on how we can at least

4:10:42once a quarter highlight a project that

4:10:45has worked really well. Um because I

4:10:48think that people need to see a physical

4:10:50manifestation of where their dollars

4:10:52have gone or where the city has invested

4:10:54and how it benefits their life. Um there

4:10:57are several that have happened in

4:10:58district 1 related to workforce housing

4:11:00that have been great. And so, um, you

4:11:03know, one of the things I really love,

4:11:04you walk into Greater Witchaw

4:11:05Partnership and on the wall they have

4:11:07all those projects that have been

4:11:08successful. I mean, something as simple

4:11:11as somebody being able to see, um, the

4:11:13power of of these economic incentive

4:11:16tools, it makes a world of a difference.

4:11:18Um, I also have had the opportunity,

4:11:20thanks to Andrew, prior to my time being

4:11:22on council, to be a part of site

4:11:24selections where um, b businesses are

4:11:27coming to our city and they are asking

4:11:30lots of questions. And I would love to

4:11:32utilize the data that Andrew has shared

4:11:34of what we are hearing around um the

4:11:37conversation across the nation, not just

4:11:39in Kansas, of why are other people

4:11:41choosing other places other than Witchah

4:11:44and then incorporating some of those

4:11:45thoughts um into our economic

4:11:47development incentive packages. But for

4:11:49folks who have not had the opportunity

4:11:51to be a part of site selections, that

4:11:53that is a huge part. Um those tools are

4:11:56literally tools to bring in those jobs,

4:11:58to bring in those opportunities. and we

4:12:00know that the people in our community

4:12:01deserve good paying jobs and it boosts

4:12:04our economy. Um, I'm not opposed to

4:12:07hiring a consultant. I would just say

4:12:08that if we're going to hire a

4:12:10consultant, I would like to see us

4:12:12attach like a timeline and expectation

4:12:14of how long we are going to sit with

4:12:16this framework. Um, I I love

4:12:19>> I love that we are are revisiting this

4:12:22conversation, but it's kind of

4:12:26I'm questioning why we're revisiting the

4:12:28conversation when we just had this

4:12:29conversation not too long ago in my

4:12:30mind. And it feels that um maybe it's in

4:12:33response to what we're hearing from

4:12:34community, which as a public servant

4:12:36always want to be responsive to

4:12:38community, but also want to make sure

4:12:39that those decisions are rooted in fact

4:12:41and not just the narrative. And

4:12:43sometimes I fear that when we talk about

4:12:45eco or development, there's a narrative

4:12:47or perception that sweetheart deals are

4:12:50happening or backdoor deals. And I can

4:12:53tell you I don't see how anybody could

4:12:55make that happen, but it it certainly

4:12:58happened as mentioned in terms of bad

4:12:59deals, but I think that that has been

4:13:01decades ago. And I think we really need

4:13:03to move forward. Um I believe that our

4:13:06business community, our board of

4:13:07education community, and the county

4:13:09should certainly be a part of that

4:13:10conversation. And finally, I would say

4:13:13also the folks who don't utilize our

4:13:15tools because the process is so

4:13:17difficult. You know, if we are enamored

4:13:20by the conversations that are happening

4:13:21before us from from businesses that are

4:13:24coming and saying, "Listen, this is very

4:13:26difficult." Imagine being a minority or

4:13:28small business owner that has even less

4:13:30resources and needs to take advantage of

4:13:32this. um northeast Witchah could have it

4:13:36could be a prime opportunity for um

4:13:39development um and yet a lot of people

4:13:42who have the interest or even want to

4:13:44start some of that get get that capital

4:13:46going don't know how to navigate these

4:13:48processes and I want to thank Corey and

4:13:50Leah God bless them I've been sending

4:13:52emails over to them from nonprofits to

4:13:55small businesses who want to learn more

4:13:57about our economic development tools but

4:13:59it's also taught me that this process is

4:14:01very difficult um even for the ones most

4:14:03educated and we do need somebody who is

4:14:05going to consistently walk with people

4:14:07through the process so that everybody

4:14:10feels that these tools are available to

4:14:12them not just a subset to include our

4:14:14nonprofit community. Storytime Village

4:14:17um ICTSOS is engaging with the city as

4:14:19well and several other nonprofits. So

4:14:22it's not just business that we want uh

4:14:24to take advantage of these tools. Um, I

4:14:27talked to the city manager about this,

4:14:28but very similar to how we have

4:14:30opportunity zones at the state level, I

4:14:32would love to see how we can um, I do

4:14:35think we should give a 100% tax

4:14:36abatement if developers are coming in

4:14:38and developing in areas that are highly

4:14:41disinvested in and need that love. And I

4:14:44think that if we are serious about

4:14:46making sure every corner of our city has

4:14:49affordable housing, has um economic

4:14:52development in terms of business, we do

4:14:54know that in some areas of our city,

4:14:56we're going to have to in incentivize

4:14:58that very differently. I know that for

4:15:00parts of my community, I would be 100%

4:15:03in and saying 100% tax abatement uh for

4:15:07this part of our community. and um

4:15:10really want to just connect these tools

4:15:13back to major plans that we approve. Uh

4:15:17we just approved the downtown Witchaw

4:15:18action plan. Um one of the things that I

4:15:21have heard from community is they are so

4:15:23excited about that action plan, but they

4:15:26are so worried about is it really going

4:15:28to happen? And I think one of the ways

4:15:30that we can encourage the execution of

4:15:33these things that are in the plan is by

4:15:34lending the help that we have available.

4:15:36And I see these economic tools um as a

4:15:39way to do that. So how do we ensure that

4:15:41we are connecting these tools to some of

4:15:43these major plans that we know we need

4:15:45to become a city where people want to

4:15:47live, learn, work, and play, but also

4:15:49serve as a tourist attraction so we can

4:15:51get some of those dollars from folks who

4:15:52don't live in Witchah. So those are my

4:15:54thoughts.

4:15:56And I'll close out with how council

4:15:58member Ballard began and that is in the

4:16:01past this city has done some things that

4:16:04were sweetheart deals and that has not

4:16:07happened since 2026.

4:16:09And so we as a city and as a council

4:16:11need to acknowledge that. And so that is

4:16:14part of the reason why conversations

4:16:17from 20 years ago are now being

4:16:18resurfaced in 2026 when this council was

4:16:22not around during that time or a city

4:16:24manager or many of the staff members

4:16:27during that time.

4:16:28>> We're economic developer.

4:16:30>> And so I appreciate council member

4:16:32Ballard for bringing that up because

4:16:34that distrust has caused a lot of damage

4:16:38to the city. Um but also to repair that

4:16:42trust is to expose what has happened in

4:16:44the past and fully have a documentation

4:16:48of it without again um with delineation

4:16:53of what has been learned and what is

4:16:56different since 20 years ago. And I

4:16:59think that that is appropriate and that

4:17:01is part of communication. it is

4:17:03important to have a recollection of

4:17:06history and that we won't repeat history

4:17:09and that now in 2026 we want to refine

4:17:12these tools. And so my recommendation to

4:17:16the city manager is that

4:17:19the internal auditor be able to show

4:17:22some of what has been deemed in the

4:17:25community as sweetheart deals and have

4:17:28that recollection of the past of what no

4:17:30longer happens. Um I think uh Andrew has

4:17:34highlighted it multiple times. There's

4:17:36no blank check that is given from the

4:17:38city of Witchah to a developer. Did it

4:17:41happen in the past? Yes. And so what has

4:17:45happened in the past needs to be

4:17:47recollected and captured so that you can

4:17:50say these were the mistakes of the past

4:17:53that are not being repeated in 2026.

4:17:56>> Mayor, so sorry mayor, go ahead. And so

4:17:59I really think that that is one area

4:18:01that I would like to see the website um

4:18:04have a recollection of that portion

4:18:08within economic development. Um so that

4:18:10is a question I would like to ask the

4:18:12city manager if that is possible number

4:18:14one for the internal auditor to have

4:18:18that um data and then be able to provide

4:18:22it to the council and then eventually be

4:18:24able to provide it on a public website

4:18:26which is witchaw.gov.

4:18:28Mayor, if I

4:18:30>> No, no, no. Go ahead.

4:18:33>> I'm sorry. I don't know if I understand

4:18:34what you're asking.

4:18:37>> Do you you want deals that

4:18:41are determined to be bad to be

4:18:43highlighted?

4:18:44>> Yes.

4:18:46>> And I and I think that the challenge

4:18:48with that is going to be the criteria

4:18:52for what you think is a bad deal versus

4:18:54someone else thinks is a bad deal. And

4:18:56then also if there was a deal and maybe

4:19:00it didn't go exactly as planned, but

4:19:03portions of it still did or maybe things

4:19:06came to fruition that weren't intended.

4:19:08So, you know,

4:19:11everyone views things through a

4:19:13different lens. So, I'm not sure who's

4:19:15going to determine what the criteria is

4:19:17for a bad deal. Um, and then instead of

4:19:21highlighting what's a bad deal, could we

4:19:23maybe highlight what are the good things

4:19:24that have happened? like I mentioned the

4:19:26CD that paid off in seven years instead

4:19:28of 22 or you know because of and I'm

4:19:31just using that one. I'm sorry not

4:19:32trying to be you know promoting district

4:19:34two. I'm sure there's lots of other

4:19:37examples but I just get a little

4:19:39worrisome that

4:19:42how do you determine what a bad deal is?

4:19:45and and that's something that we can

4:19:47certainly even with the if we do develop

4:19:49the task force, you know, they can give

4:19:50us some criteria and some feedback, but

4:19:53I I just want to make sure that it's

4:19:55fair. We're not throwing stones at past

4:19:57councils. I say all the time, future

4:19:59councils are going to question what

4:20:01we're doing in 2026. They're going to

4:20:03say, "Why in the world did they do

4:20:04that?" Because the world will change,

4:20:06the economy will change, people's

4:20:08attitudes will change, everything will

4:20:10change. So, yeah. Thank you,

4:20:14>> Council Member Tuttle. Thank you so

4:20:15much. And and mayor, I want to I want to

4:20:17back up and thanks for clarifying. I I

4:20:19agree. There have been some deals that

4:20:21have been problematic and troublesome in

4:20:25the past. And so, I don't want to

4:20:27disregard that that that has not

4:20:29happened. And I guess my my clarity was

4:20:31um I think sometimes we fixate so much

4:20:34on the past that it's very hard to move

4:20:36forward even when uh the gaps are so

4:20:39visible and we and we have to do

4:20:41something to address those gaps. So I

4:20:43just want to acknowledge your clarity

4:20:45and I thank you for that because I was

4:20:46not trying to say that they never happen

4:20:48or they don't happen. But to council

4:20:50member Tuttles's point, I wanted to add

4:20:51some some context. So, uh, a lot of

4:20:54folks talk about the Kimar Plaza deal

4:20:56and I'm I am lucky enough to have many

4:20:59of my predecessors or the folks who have

4:21:02come before me still around and that was

4:21:04something that I asked about when I was

4:21:06coming in. And so, uh, you talked about

4:21:08history. I I will be the first one to

4:21:10say that history is important. And the

4:21:12truth about history is that there are

4:21:14parts of our community to include

4:21:15northeast Witchah, a predominantly black

4:21:17community, that has not seen the level

4:21:19of economic development and investment

4:21:21at rates as other communities. And that

4:21:24has led to some serious implications for

4:21:26that community that we have to address

4:21:28and we have to address it fast. Um, but

4:21:31the reason why that Kimmar Plaza deal

4:21:33was created the way it was was because

4:21:35they wanted to remove any barriers

4:21:37possible to encourage people to develop

4:21:40in an area that doesn't seem um ideal or

4:21:44attractive for developers when they

4:21:46consider all factors of where they're

4:21:47going to place their business or where

4:21:49they're going to develop their

4:21:50particular industry. We now know today,

4:21:53right, that we probably should not have

4:21:55done it that way and there should have

4:21:56been clawbacks and safeguards. But I I

4:21:59appreciate former mayor Carl Brewer and

4:22:02former council member Levanta Williams

4:22:04for being willing to acknowledge that

4:22:06that that community, that predominantly

4:22:08black community that has some of the

4:22:10highest disparities, not just in our

4:22:12city, not just in our state, but even in

4:22:15our nation in some regards when we start

4:22:16talking about infant mortality rates

4:22:18need access to economic development to

4:22:21increase social determinance of health

4:22:23and to increase quality of life. So when

4:22:25we talk about putting these things out

4:22:26there, what I don't like doing is that

4:22:28it it's kind of the struggle I have with

4:22:30some public speakers is they'll come and

4:22:32they'll share about the bad, but they'll

4:22:35leave out all the other context. And

4:22:37what it does is it creates a narrative

4:22:39and a perception that puts us as a

4:22:42council in a very uncompromising

4:22:44position. So, while I understand why you

4:22:47want a dashboard, I would just encourage

4:22:49us to maybe think through how we can do

4:22:51this in a holistic way where our

4:22:53developers don't feel like we don't like

4:22:56them and we don't want to do business

4:22:57with them because we're giving them a

4:22:59black eye, but our community doesn't

4:23:00feel like we're not being transparent. I

4:23:03just think that we have to strike a

4:23:04balance. And then finally, I think I

4:23:07think Council Member Tuttles's

4:23:09suggestion of allowing the task force to

4:23:11work through some of that is going to be

4:23:13critical because then you have all those

4:23:14stakeholders at the table. Um, and so I

4:23:17just wanted to share that with you

4:23:19because you mentioned history and I

4:23:21wanted to share some of that history and

4:23:23also talk about how that history as it

4:23:24relates to economic development is

4:23:26sorely hurting an area of my district um

4:23:31that doesn't get the opportunity that I

4:23:33feel like it deserves. and I'm going to

4:23:34fight for them to get that opportunity

4:23:36and we need to start talking about the

4:23:38context behind why these incentives are

4:23:40needed too.

4:23:41>> And I greatly appreciate both council

4:23:44members for sharing their thoughts

4:23:45regarding what needs to be transparent

4:23:48on a website. I think that again in

4:23:51highlighting a failure and what you've

4:23:54learned from the failure is important. I

4:23:57think it's in not acknowledging a

4:23:59failure that then creates this distrust

4:24:02with community and uh that learning is

4:24:06the context that is oftentimes missing

4:24:09in public dialogue and so I would like

4:24:12to see both the failures and as council

4:24:16member Tuttle said the successes. So if

4:24:19you can highlight both failures that

4:24:22have happened within the city especially

4:24:25in economic development um both

4:24:28successes and failures I really believe

4:24:30that that is a step forward um because

4:24:34you need to highlight what has been a

4:24:36mistake learn from that mistake and show

4:24:38how in 2026

4:24:41this is a different type of city than it

4:24:43was in 2006. Mayor, I think we should

4:24:47call them learning moments and I

4:24:48wouldn't single out our economic

4:24:50development department. There's learning

4:24:52moments that we have had. I mean, right?

4:24:54Like there's some things that we have

4:24:55done as a council that ooh we that's a

4:24:58learning moment and there's learning

4:25:00moments all across the city, but the

4:25:02city is not unique. Everyone should have

4:25:05learning moments that they reflect on

4:25:06and maybe choose a few and how we've

4:25:09corrected and moved forward. Our

4:25:10clawbacks is a great example of learning

4:25:12moments. So shout out to law and Jerry

4:25:15and the way that we don't do contracts

4:25:16the way we used to. That's a great

4:25:18learning moment and it does build trust

4:25:20and transparency.

4:25:21>> Yeah, the word failure I think is is not

4:25:23the way to go. And then again I just

4:25:25question the criteria of you know what

4:25:29what council member Hullheisle thinks

4:25:32about something and what I think about

4:25:34something and even if there was

4:25:35something that didn't go exactly like it

4:25:37was supposed to, I bet there was

4:25:38something that still was gleamed from

4:25:40it. I I'm just I'm not sure

4:25:45what good it's going to bring other than

4:25:48just the misconception that the city of

4:25:52Witchah isn't transparent. I I think it

4:25:56for the public servants in the past who

4:25:59probably were not in any way nefarious.

4:26:01Maybe the environment changed, something

4:26:03happened. I've mentioned before as the

4:26:05only council member who was here during

4:26:07COVID, the plans and thoughts that we

4:26:09had in 2019 were no longer the same as

4:26:12the plans and thoughts that we had in

4:26:142021. Right? We had to adjust. We had to

4:26:17rethink. Some things that we tried in

4:26:192020 didn't work, but we did the best we

4:26:23could with what we had. And so I think

4:26:26kind of looking back at past public

4:26:29servants and calling things failure,

4:26:31that's not moving Witchah forward.

4:26:33That's just kind of tearing us back

4:26:35down.

4:26:36>> I I agree. Um we we should learn from

4:26:39our mistakes. I don't think we need to

4:26:41highlight our mistakes.

4:26:43Um I we highlight our successes. Yes.

4:26:47But, uh, as a city council, I think we

4:26:49need to look forward, move forward, and

4:26:52and not forget the past, but we've

4:26:55already fixed a lot of those things in

4:26:56our contracts. So, I I think we just

4:26:59need to move forward.

4:27:01>> So, I will be the lone person that's

4:27:03asking for something that I do consider

4:27:06as a failure because I hear it from our

4:27:08community. I've been elected by the

4:27:10community. I am not the city manager. I

4:27:13don't manage the 3,100 employees.

4:27:16However, I do hear from community and

4:27:19what I hear from community is we don't

4:27:21trust portions of economic development.

4:27:25And so if they don't understand the

4:27:27history, the learnings, and what is

4:27:30different in 2026, we can't move

4:27:32forward. We'll still be stuck on a

4:27:34conversation of rebuilding trust. So I

4:27:37do believe that you can call them

4:27:39failures because that is what that

4:27:42though many of the things that we have

4:27:44been talking about are and it's not a

4:27:47bad thing to learn from failures. Um

4:27:49that is honest and I think that that is

4:27:51something that our community expects

4:27:53from city government to actually be

4:27:56honest and transparent.

4:27:57>> Mayor, if I may just offer another

4:27:59interpretation. I feel your passion on

4:28:01this and I can appreciate where you're

4:28:04coming from. [clears throat]

4:28:07I think we're one I don't think you're

4:28:09alone in saying like we want to be

4:28:11transparent. I don't think you're alone

4:28:12in that. Um

4:28:15>> I I I think we need to figure out and

4:28:19work with the city manager on what this

4:28:20can look like realistically.

4:28:23As mentioned, we're not going to cruise

4:28:25the website. People aren't looking to go

4:28:27cruise the website and read all these

4:28:28things. And I and I get maybe it's a a

4:28:31dashboard. I mean, we have models in

4:28:33place, be it a transparency portal, um,

4:28:37something of that nature. I know finance

4:28:38is also working on putting things like

4:28:41credit card transactions on the website.

4:28:43I mean, let's just really think through

4:28:45this through a methodical lens. And I

4:28:47just don't want unintended consequences,

4:28:49but I I'm with you. I want to I want

4:28:52trust and transparency. I think it works

4:28:54both ways, though. We can't just

4:28:56highlight the darkness because that's

4:28:59all people will feel is darkness. There

4:29:02is light in what we are doing. There is

4:29:04light in what our community is doing.

4:29:06Um, and what developers are doing. And

4:29:08one of the things I've heard from those

4:29:11those developers, small businesses,

4:29:14small developers, subcontractors, is we

4:29:17feel like we are automatically enemy

4:29:20number one when we come before the city

4:29:22council because business is a dirty

4:29:24word. And I just I reject that

4:29:26sentiment. as a former student leader

4:29:29who was a truly flipping over tables

4:29:32about innovation campus. We don't want

4:29:35this here. This is not good. And I look

4:29:37today and now I say thank God these

4:29:40opportunities are here and the jobs that

4:29:42it's creating. Is there more work to do

4:29:44in connecting with community and and

4:29:46bridging the gap? Absolutely.

4:29:49But I but I think we've got some work to

4:29:51do in regards to bridging some gaps. And

4:29:54if we only spew darkness, that's all

4:29:56people are going to feel about economic

4:29:58development, our city, and the people

4:30:00who who have been elected to serve them.

4:30:02>> And I'm just going to add on to that,

4:30:04city manager. Maybe this would be

4:30:06another great project for our new

4:30:07economic development director because,

4:30:10you know, hopefully this task force can

4:30:11come to fruition, but we're also going

4:30:13to hire someone who's an expert in

4:30:15economic development. And I would really

4:30:17value their opinion on if a strategy

4:30:21such as, you know, highlighting

4:30:23failures, which again, I hope we don't

4:30:24use that word, is going to help

4:30:28with transparency. It's not. And it's

4:30:30certainly not going to help foster

4:30:32economic development. If you're a

4:30:34company in California looking to move to

4:30:37Witchaw and you come to our economic

4:30:39development page and you see all the

4:30:41failures,

4:30:42that's not that's not going to help. Um,

4:30:45and so I I think that yes, a way for

4:30:48lessons learned, but not disrespectful

4:30:51to past electeds or past staff, but this

4:30:54could be a charge for our new economic

4:30:57development director. So, um, I'm sure

4:30:59we're going to find someone great um,

4:31:01who I, as I mentioned, is a content

4:31:04expert and can help us find strategies

4:31:06to move forward and not just think about

4:31:08the past.

4:31:09>> Yeah. And mayor and council members, if

4:31:10I may, I do think you're right. we will

4:31:12lean on to our staff expertise that

4:31:14we're bringing in. But I do think what

4:31:16you've all have said and what we've all

4:31:18recognized, I think, in this

4:31:20conversation is we're talking about

4:31:22economic development incentive tools

4:31:24because not every tool fits the project

4:31:28at hand. And that's why we've had

4:31:30different structures in different

4:31:33contracts. Why it may have made sense we

4:31:35did a 99-year lease in one deal doesn't

4:31:38seem to be the appetite for now or other

4:31:40deals. How we structured some incentives

4:31:43in one deal doesn't seem to be the

4:31:46appetite or the appropriate lever to

4:31:49pull to bring in another deal. And so I

4:31:51think it just reflects that we've had

4:31:54complicated um deals that have all had

4:31:56their own unique structures to them. But

4:31:59I think where I think you all might land

4:32:01and we'll talk this through um in the

4:32:04coming weeks here is I do think there is

4:32:06value that we could highlight what has

4:32:09changed and kind of our basic structure

4:32:12for economic development. That's why I'm

4:32:14talking about the incentives. But as I

4:32:15talked about, I think it's in the

4:32:16contracts, what changes we've made where

4:32:19we've acknowledged that maybe that

4:32:21wasn't the best structure for a longer

4:32:23term lease and kind of focus in on the

4:32:25short-term lease with renewals, whatever

4:32:27it may be. We have the five-year

4:32:29check-ins. I think there's a way to

4:32:31highlight that our basic economic

4:32:34development structure has these

4:32:36components and then people can take

4:32:38those components and line them up to

4:32:41past deals and see where they were or

4:32:43were not. And I think that may be uh a

4:32:46path that you all would be interested

4:32:48in. So, we'll talk that through some

4:32:49more.

4:32:50>> I I can appreciate that in just a little

4:32:52bit here. Um I think the task force is a

4:32:55great idea. I think just getting

4:32:56eyeballs on it. Um showing again the

4:32:59lessons that we've learned. Um but the

4:33:02most important thing that we have our

4:33:04duty up here is to make sure that we

4:33:06have a good program going forward, good

4:33:08policy going forward. So that's

4:33:11definitely something that we need to

4:33:12highlight. So that's I think job number

4:33:14one with this. We can relitigate the

4:33:17past all we want, but the most important

4:33:19thing is that we're setting up for the

4:33:22future to expand our economic

4:33:24development here in the city and refine

4:33:28it to the areas that we think are

4:33:29appropriate. So,

4:33:31>> and I will echo that the task force

4:33:33would be a great step forward um if it

4:33:36can mirror a lot of what the landlord

4:33:38tenant uh task force looks like.

4:33:41However, in that task force, the mayor

4:33:43had more recommendations in terms of

4:33:46individuals. I would rather see each of

4:33:49the individuals on the council get two

4:33:51individuals to serve on that task force.

4:33:54So, that would be 14 members. And I

4:33:57would like to see one person who has

4:34:00used the tools and one person who's a

4:34:02community member that is either an

4:34:05advocate or even an activist in our

4:34:07community uh that would like to serve on

4:34:10that task force regarding economic

4:34:12development.

4:34:12>> I hope almost everybody on the task

4:34:14force has used our economic development

4:34:16tools. I mean I can understand a couple

4:34:18community members too who are you know

4:34:20advocates but I mean part of the purpose

4:34:22is to find out how we can improve the

4:34:24system and to see how to improve the

4:34:26system is you know somebody who's gone

4:34:28through it as as the speaker mentioned

4:34:30that wasn't effective um didn't know who

4:34:33to go to wasn't always consistent so I

4:34:36think people with lived experiences of

4:34:38the process that was my entire point so

4:34:42>> well mine is to include Celeste reset

4:34:44into that that is the reason And why I

4:34:46bring that up because I don't think she

4:34:47has utilized said incentives, but um she

4:34:51has been vocal regarding incentive tools

4:34:53and I would like to see her on that task

4:34:55force. So that's for the record.

4:34:57>> Oh, we have to vote on task force

4:34:59members.

4:35:00>> Celeste will not have my vote.

4:35:05>> Uh city manager, regarding your second

4:35:07position that you'll be hiring, um I

4:35:09believe it's called a small business

4:35:11manager. Um, from what I heard from the

4:35:14public agenda, um, I would like to see

4:35:17something like a development concierge.

4:35:20So, someone that can help. Again, they

4:35:23highlighted several things such as, uh,

4:35:25the speed in moving zoning and all these

4:35:29um, portions of local government that

4:35:32are not within economic development, but

4:35:34they're spread out, whether it's in the

4:35:35city or at the county with MABC.

4:35:39Maybe your second role that you'll get

4:35:41to hire for, can that have a function of

4:35:46such as a development concierge type of

4:35:48individual that can see these projects

4:35:51to actual fruition? Especially uh

4:35:53hearing vice mayor talk about timelines

4:35:56and if incentives are tied to timelines,

4:35:59one of those aspects to timelines is the

4:36:03procedures that we have within the city

4:36:04of Witchah that may be cumbersome. The

4:36:07uh second position that we're

4:36:10envisioning is a business retention and

4:36:14expansion manager is the identified

4:36:17title. And as I've said, I think your

4:36:19concier approach mirrors what I was

4:36:22thinking for customer service. Um how

4:36:25staff, no matter who on our economic

4:36:28development team going forward, helps

4:36:30people along a process. Um that

4:36:32certainly is part of it. Um but I think

4:36:35we have some similar views on that about

4:36:38how we think more about customer service

4:36:40or concier. And so um that is the

4:36:43general framework that I'll be glad to

4:36:45expand on um for you. But that's how we

4:36:47have it structured now.

4:36:49>> Uh can we go to slide number 76 really

4:36:52quick since everyone has mentioned uh

4:36:54some sort of consultant. How much was

4:36:56this consultant back in 2019?

4:37:00>> Oh, Mayor. Um, that's a good question.

4:37:04That was a joint venture partnership

4:37:06between the city, the county, and uh the

4:37:09partnership.

4:37:11Um,

4:37:13I will get you that number for sure. I

4:37:15hesitate to throw it out. I want to say

4:37:16it was around $30,000 total. So, I think

4:37:18each entity was 10,000, but I'm doing

4:37:20that from memory and I've slept since

4:37:23then. Sorry.

4:37:23>> Thank you. And um I think since we have

4:37:26one new council member on this council

4:37:28since the last lipa lipa uh

4:37:31conversation, can that be re-shared with

4:37:33the entire council via email? Um so then

4:37:36everyone has the same information that

4:37:38Vice Mayor Glascock was uh alluding to.

4:37:41>> Sure.

4:37:41>> And last but not least, um I want to

4:37:44just uh say thank you to the city

4:37:46manager uh both the last one and this

4:37:48current one. Um, since becoming mayor, I

4:37:52asked the green sheet to have more

4:37:54detail, uh, especially when it came to

4:37:56economic development. And so, um, in

4:37:59particular, I'm looking at September

4:38:0116th of 2025. Um, today in the consent

4:38:05agenda, we had a revision or an

4:38:08extension to that agenda item in consent

4:38:11agenda number five, and that was

4:38:13actually workforce housing. uh that

4:38:16developer received 50% property tax

4:38:19abatement and a sales tax exemption. And

4:38:22if you recall in September of 2025, that

4:38:26green sheet had a boilerplate that now

4:38:28has been on every green sheet regarding

4:38:31economic development tools to explain

4:38:33what those tools are. Um, but what I'd

4:38:36like to see is a more robust uh green

4:38:38sheet. And I specifically um have asked

4:38:41for several questions that need to be

4:38:43answered in that green sheet. Number

4:38:46one, is it necessary? And what is the

4:38:49risk to the city? Number two, is there a

4:38:52clear public benefit? Number three, has

4:38:56the project and the sponsor been

4:38:58thoroughly vetted? And number four, does

4:39:01the agreement protect taxpayers? Um so

4:39:05those answers can be uh within either

4:39:08the green sheet which would be

4:39:10preferable as that is the document that

4:39:12people look at even prior to the council

4:39:15meeting but also highlighting it in the

4:39:17actual presentation.

4:39:19>> Mayor

4:39:19>> I have a question.

4:39:20>> Oh go ahead.

4:39:21>> What is necessary and who deems what is

4:39:24necessary and not so

4:39:26>> and what is the vetting

4:39:27>> and yeah what is the vetting? So again

4:39:30um that can't be a directive from one

4:39:32council member. There has to be a

4:39:34consensus. So, I think Dennis, you're

4:39:35going to have to shop that idea and see

4:39:37if we truly are going to change the way

4:39:39we do the green sheets. But, you know,

4:39:42what's necessary again to I'm going to

4:39:44keep picking on you, but what's

4:39:45necessary to council member Hole Heisel

4:39:47may not be necessary to me. I I there's

4:39:50a lot of things that may not like do you

4:39:52mean is it a necessary asset to the

4:39:55community? Well, no. we may not, you

4:39:58know, perish as a city if we don't have

4:40:00blank, but it also may be a benefit.

4:40:02And, you know, like I can think of a

4:40:06dozen examples off the top of my head

4:40:07where um, you know, it wasn't like water

4:40:10to the community, but it's something

4:40:12that's bringing economic development and

4:40:14making our our community a better place

4:40:17to live, learn, earn, play, and pray.

4:40:19So, um, I I just again, there's a lot of

4:40:22values in economic development. you

4:40:25know, what you think is a good deal

4:40:26versus what I think is a good deal. And

4:40:28so, um, Dennis, Godspeed to you to try

4:40:30and figure out how to move forward with

4:40:32that one. I'm very specific rather on

4:40:35the it is it the it is actually the

4:40:40economic development tool, not the

4:40:42project. Is the tool necessary and what

4:40:46is the risk to the city? So

4:40:49>> necessary

4:40:50>> is the tool necessary and that can be

4:40:53the applicant saying but for that tool I

4:40:56can't move forward. That's how that

4:40:58works and that is actually how it's

4:41:01written currently in our ordinance.

4:41:03>> It's our ordinance and the state statute

4:41:06but they need to say it but for this

4:41:08tool this project can't move forward. I

4:41:13believe that it's important for the

4:41:15developer to vocalize that this tool is

4:41:19not being because I don't want these

4:41:21tools to be haphazardously

4:41:23or uh much more judiciously provided to

4:41:28developers rather than liberally given

4:41:32to everybody. So again, I would like an

4:41:35actual verbalized or written uh of why

4:41:38but for this tool this project can't

4:41:41move forward.

4:41:42>> With all due respect, a developer will

4:41:44always say it's necessary.

4:41:47Um I think it's up to the council to

4:41:49decide whether it is necessary or not.

4:41:53And I'll refer back to the C for

4:41:55margaritas.

4:41:56He was already started.

4:41:59>> I know it. But he's already started. we

4:42:01we have to put in our own judgment to

4:42:03see if it is necessary or not.

4:42:06>> And something else I'd like to make a

4:42:07note of, the public doesn't see every

4:42:10application that comes down the pipe. Uh

4:42:12there's a number of things that are

4:42:13stopped with our economic development

4:42:15department and before council, too,

4:42:18because a lot of times they get shopped

4:42:20around with us beforehand. So, just to

4:42:22let the public know, not every project

4:42:24that is submitted gets heard by council

4:42:27because we do have controls in place to

4:42:29kick out a lot of the bad ones or the

4:42:31ones that don't qualify.

4:42:35And I do think a part of the green sheet

4:42:38information that we share in there

4:42:40already for council's deliberation is

4:42:43the ROI, the return on investment. So

4:42:46depends on what instrument or what tool

4:42:49is being requested. But we do need more

4:42:52conversation because when you look at

4:42:53some of the housing the multifamily

4:42:56housing um projects that have come

4:42:58through recently that have asked for the

4:43:01sales tax abatement there hasn't been

4:43:04much policy discussion around are there

4:43:07thresholds for that um investment if you

4:43:11have a higher investment or higher

4:43:13number of units. um is there some

4:43:15housing goals you want to achieve with

4:43:16that? So those are still some of the um

4:43:19I think conversation we want to have

4:43:21around the full spectrum of the tools

4:43:24and how they're used. But I would say

4:43:26part of your evaluation is ROI and we

4:43:28use Witto State to do that assessment

4:43:31for us. So you have that as a data point

4:43:34as you consider the factors for

4:43:37different projects.

4:43:39I'll be curious to see how it goes in

4:43:41the next couple weeks when we have a

4:43:43large very big project from

4:43:45bazillionaires that are coming downtown

4:43:47that will be asking us for incentives

4:43:50and it goes to the point that you just

4:43:52made about what did you say you said

4:43:55>> is it necessary

4:43:56>> yeah is it necessary so I'll be curious

4:43:58to see how those conversations go moving

4:44:00forward

4:44:08That's all we had for you today. We'll

4:44:10do the follow. Thank you very much. So,

4:44:13thank you for your time and information.