2026-10-20 - Assembly Regular

08:38[singing and music]

08:44I hope I don't come down.

08:51[singing]

08:56didn't get to say

08:59enough

09:06seriously

09:08enough

09:11that nobody

09:14[music]

09:15matter [singing]

09:21you take me seriously.

09:42Sometimes the world moves too quickly

09:46and I know [music]

09:48it's [snorts] not like the earth is

09:50turning.

09:54>> [music]

09:55>> I'm [singing] already gone, but we both

09:59know I can't sleep.

10:04And now

10:07that you take me

10:10seriously

10:17nobody

10:19stays mad at me.

10:22And now

10:26that you take me seriously

10:33[music and singing]

10:34[snorts]

10:47do good. It'll do good. It'll all do.

10:52[singing]

10:54It'll do good. It'll all do good.

10:59Do good. [singing and music]

11:00It'll do good. It'll all do good.

11:06[singing]

11:09It'll do good.

11:18>> [music]

11:29[music]

11:34[music]

11:48>> Sat by the lake

11:52[music] on the summer day.

11:57[music] The wind through the shade.

12:02for a cool place

12:07[music] to watch

12:11your subtle ways. [music]

12:15What do I really care about? Am I afraid

12:20to make a known?

12:25What if this were forgotten?

12:30Oh, there was none.

12:34What do I [music and singing] really

12:36care about?

12:40Nothing at all.

12:49I hope it was none.

13:02The dogs are all I [music] play.

13:07Tell me it won't change.

13:11while putting off the work to lane

13:16to just [music] simply wait

13:22to be taught

13:26some way. [music]

13:30What do I really care about?

13:38[music]

13:39What do I [singing] really care about?

13:43Am I afraid to make [singing] a known?

13:49What [music] if this world forgotten?

13:54I hope there was none.

13:58What do I [singing and music] really

14:00care about?

14:04Nothing at [singing]

14:06all.

14:13I hope it was none.

14:16What do [music] I really care about?

14:22Nothing [singing and music] at all.

14:32I hope it was mine.

15:01Well, I know I hate a superhero. My eyes

15:05on laser [music] beams and I can't jump

15:08over buildings and I'm afraid of

15:11everything

15:13like messing up around my friends or

15:17losing my mind or going out after dark

15:23just to walk [music and singing] my dog.

15:25Well, my cry tonight

15:29rock from out of space. It's just feel

15:33like I'm screw in a bad living out of

15:36place. Well, it's feeling like I'm still

15:40just a bitty [music] kid.

15:44Feeling like I grew knowing I never did.

15:49It's all these things

15:52that I tell myself

15:55while I keep acting like nobody else

16:01has felt [music] the same things

16:05in their heart.

16:07Well, I'm not a her.

16:10But I better start.

16:14Well, I can't breathe [music] under the

16:16water, but sometimes I wish I could not

16:21sink into the darkness

16:23[music and singing]

16:24and disappear for good. No boots or cape

16:28or shining magic powers in my [music]

16:32ring. It's just meories and fancies on

16:36which I have to cling. It's all these

16:39things

16:41that I tell [music] myself.

16:44Well, I keep acting [music] like nobody

16:48else

16:51has the same things

16:54in their heart.

16:57Well, I'm not [music] a hero,

17:00but I better

17:32>> [music]

17:39[music]

17:43>> All these [music] days

17:46I tell myself

17:49when I beected [music]

17:51like nobody else.

17:56I spent the same days

17:59and they are

18:02not a

18:05but I better start.

18:09Well, I know I ain't a superhero.

18:13My eyes on [singing and music] laser

18:15beams and I can't jump over buildings

18:20and I'm afraid of everything.

18:22[music and singing]

18:28[music]

18:32[music]

18:38[music]

18:43Well, I tried

18:46to think them [music]

18:48away,

18:52but nothing could keep them at

18:58[music]

19:01the time

19:02I fight. They come right back.

19:07Yeah.

19:09Nothing would stop them or last. [music]

19:25[music]

22:29Good evening everyone. We will get

22:30started in a few minutes. Just getting

22:32things sorted up here on the dis.

29:56Okay, everyone. Sorry for the slight

29:57delay. I think we are ready to get

29:59started. So, I'm going to call this

30:00meeting to order. Tonight is Tuesday,

30:02October 20th. We are uh noticed in this

30:05room uh for our regular meeting of the

30:08assembly. So, I will turn first to the

30:09clerk for a roll call.

30:14>> Member Handeland

30:15>> here.

30:16>> Member Martinez,

30:17>> present. Member Girker

30:18>> here.

30:21>> Member Silvers

30:22>> here.

30:23>> Member Presfordia

30:24>> here.

30:24>> Chair Broly

30:25>> here.

30:27>> Member uh Vice Chair Bulland

30:29>> happy to be here.

30:30>> Member Baldwin Day

30:31>> present.

30:32>> Member Scout

30:33>> present.

30:34>> Member McCormack

30:35>> here.

30:36>> Member

30:39Park

30:39>> here.

30:40>> Member Johnson

30:41>> here.

30:42>> And student representative McCulla

30:45>> here.

30:48Chel, you have a quorum.

30:50>> Okay. Thank you, Madam Clerk. Uh, next

30:52we will do the pledge of allegiance and

30:54I'll turn to member Martinez to lead us

30:55in the pledge.

31:16Thank you. Next, I'll turn to Member

31:18Scout to read our land acknowledgement.

31:22Thank you. A land acknowledgement is a

31:26formal statement recognizing the

31:28indigenous people of a place. It is a

31:31public gesture of appreciation for the

31:33past and present indigenous stewardship

31:35of the lands that we now occupy. It is

31:39an actionable statement that marks our

31:41collective movement towards

31:42decolonization and equity. The Anchorage

31:45Assembly would like to acknowledge that

31:47we gather today on the traditional lands

31:49of the Denina Aabaskans. For thousands

31:52of years, the Denina have been and

31:54continue to be the stewards of this

31:57land. It is with gratitude and respect

32:00that we recognize the contributions,

32:02innovations, and contemporary

32:03perspectives of the upper Cook Inlet

32:05Denina.

32:08Thank you. Um, next we will turn to uh

32:11minutes of previous meetings. We do not

32:13have any on our agenda today, so we will

32:16move uh past that to the mayor's report.

32:18Madame Mayor, please proceed. Thank you,

32:20Chair Broly, and good evening everyone.

32:22Before we dive in, I want to take a

32:24moment to acknowledge the passing of Mr.

32:26White Keys, beloved Alaska musician,

32:29entertainer, author, and Spanard legend.

32:32His irreverent wit, music, and spanard

32:34spirit shaped generations of Alaskans.

32:37From the fly by nightclub to the whale

32:39fat follies, he brought people together

32:42and helped us laugh at ourselves. Few

32:44captured the spirit of this community

32:46with such humor and heart. And Anchorage

32:48is better for the joy he shared with us.

32:52This week, we are excited to welcome

32:54Alaskans from across the state of to

32:56Anchorage for the Alaska Federation of

32:58Natives convention at the Denina Center.

33:01Every year, AFN brings an unmistakable

33:04wave of energy and excitement to our

33:07municipality. It's a great opportunity

33:10to reconnect with rural neighbors, gives

33:13a big economic boost for local

33:14businesses, and create space to

33:16strengthen long-standing relationships

33:18and build new ones. As mayor, I'm deeply

33:21honored that Anchorage serves as AFN's

33:24gathering place. and I appreciate the

33:26energy, opportunity, and connections

33:28this annual convention brings to us. As

33:32the state's largest urban center,

33:34Anchorage is a lifeline and hub for our

33:36entire entire state. And we benefit in

33:39many ways from that role. People come

33:41here for health care, education,

33:43services, work opportunities, and major

33:46events and gatherings such as AFN.

33:49Anchorage also benefits greatly from the

33:51strength of the Alaskan Native

33:53Corporations based here. They create

33:55thousands of jobs and hundreds of

33:57millions of economic activity in our

33:59community.

34:01This year's convention also coincides

34:04with the one-year anniversary of Typhoon

34:06Halong, a moment that underscored the

34:09deep and essential ties between

34:11Anchorage and rural Alaska. In the

34:14aftermath of Halong, our community

34:16stepped forward without hesitation to

34:18support evacuees because standing with

34:20our neighbors is fundamental to who we

34:23are. Many survivors remain here in

34:26Anchorage and continue to navigate the

34:28challenges of displacement and recovery.

34:31It is vital for our community along with

34:33our tribal, state, and federal partners

34:36to keep supporting our displaced

34:38neighbors.

34:39Early voting for the statewide general

34:41election is now underway. City Hall is

34:43open for voting from 8 am to 5:00 pm

34:46Monday through Friday to accommodate

34:48those attending the convention and

34:50others who may be busy during the

34:52weekdays. City Hall will also be open

34:55for voting this coming Saturday, October

34:5724, from 12 to 3 p.m. Thank you to all

35:01the election workers and volunteers.

35:03Turning to the agenda tonight, you all

35:05take up the confirmation of Lauren

35:07Crawford as municipal treasurer. Lauren

35:10will be a great asset to the team and I

35:12respectfully urge you to vote in support

35:14of him in this critical role. We'll also

35:17have the first opportunity for public

35:19testimony on the 2027 budget proposal.

35:22This budget uses one-time funds to

35:24preserve essential services for now, but

35:27the municipality will likely face

35:29difficult decisions next year. I

35:32encourage everyone to take part in the

35:33upcoming fiscal future summit

35:35conversation with chair Broly and member

35:37Bowwin Day on Friday, October 30 from 10

35:40to 4 at the UAA student union. Lastly, I

35:44urge assembly members to approve my

35:46administration's S version of AO

35:482026-108

35:50tonight, which is co-sponsored by

35:52members and Girker. Technologies like

35:56the real-time crime center are powerful

35:58public safety tools. They help APD

36:01locate missing persons, receive

36:03information from victims, and bring

36:06violent criminals to justice. But we

36:08also have a duty to make sure these

36:10tools are used responsibly. The S

36:12version of the ordinance adds meaningful

36:14guardrails to municipal code. It

36:16protects the right to privacy guaranteed

36:18by the US and state and Alaska

36:20constitutions while still allowing APD

36:23to use technology responsibly to keep

36:26our community safe. This version creates

36:28a clear structure for assembly oversight

36:30of surveillance technology use. It

36:33requires APD to submit its policies to

36:35the assembly to promptly notify the

36:37assembly when policy changes and to

36:39report any complaints about potential

36:42violations. The S version also creates a

36:44requirement for assembly approval of any

36:46contract that would expand APD's

36:48technology. Together, this structure

36:50will give the assembly the information

36:52it needs in real time to provide

36:54meaningful and effective oversight. This

36:57ordinance will ensure data is shared

36:59only with state and federal agencies for

37:01criminal law enforcement purposes. This

37:04means APD can continue important joint

37:06efforts, the annual Operation Summer

37:09Heat drug crime suppression effort, the

37:11Chelsea Inn investigation, and human

37:13trafficking investigations like the

37:15major massage parlor bust last April.

37:19Other versions and amendments proposed

37:20tonight would effectively halt these

37:22joint operations which are important to

37:25public safety and health and get deadly

37:27drugs off our streets. Alaska's

37:30constitutional right to privacy is one

37:32of the strongest in the nation and our

37:34police department's own policies reflect

37:36that. APD is committed to using

37:39technology responsibly in line with its

37:42mission to protect and serve the people

37:43of Anchorage.

37:45But it's important that we codify our

37:47responsibility to protect the public's

37:49privacy to ensure that it has strength

37:51and permanence. The S version of the

37:53ordinance gives you a sensible and

37:55effective opportunity to do that

37:56tonight. That's all for now. I look

37:59forward to seeing everyone at AFN later

38:01this week. Back to you, chair. Thank

38:03you.

38:04>> Thank you, uh, Madame Mayor. Don't see

38:07anyone in the queue, so we'll move on to

38:09our next item. Uh, so I'll deliver the

38:12chair's report this evening. Um so good

38:14evening everyone. Welcome to our regular

38:16business meeting. Um I will cover some

38:18of the same ground that the mayor did.

38:19So I'll do it briefly but uh again

38:21wanting to highlight because these are

38:22all important uh topics. So uh this

38:24evening we'll be taking up a few recogn

38:27a few resolutions recognizing the Alaska

38:29Fed Federation of Natives or AFN annual

38:31convention happening this week and the

38:33one-year anniversary of Typhoon Halong

38:35that the mayor just spoke about. Uh

38:36there's also resolutions that I don't

38:38believe we're pulling this evening, but

38:39they are honoring the Alaska Territorial

38:41Guard and Indigenous People's Day, which

38:43was last Monday, October 12th. So

38:44certainly a theme for this evening. Um

38:46so I'll note that the AFN convention is

38:48the art la largest annual representative

38:51gathering in the the United States of

38:52Native peoples. We're honored that AFN

38:54is again hosting the event in Anchorage

38:57um on the traditional line lands of the

38:58Dina Aabaskcan people. Um, and we're

39:01also certainly marking the one-year uh

39:03anniversary of Typhoon Halong, uh, which

39:05happened basically around this time last

39:08year when the AFN convention was uh, in

39:10town or shortly before that. In the

39:12words of Alaska Community Foundation

39:13President and CEO Alex Mccay in a

39:15statement last week, the storm did not

39:17end when the weather cleared and we know

39:19that there's many folks who are still

39:21uh, struggling in the aftermath of that.

39:22So to our neighbors from across uh the

39:24state who are staying here in Anchorage,

39:26whether you're here for AFN this week or

39:28spending time here uh for a longer

39:30period of time until you can return

39:31home, we're grateful that you're here.

39:34Um on the subject of the budget, uh

39:36tonight is the first of our two

39:37scheduled public hearings on the FY2027

39:40budget. Um just a couple notes for uh

39:42members of the public and members of the

39:45assembly. First is uh that the because

39:48we have two public hearings on these,

39:49you will hear me close each of those

39:51hearings tonight. Um that is our

39:52standard practice because there's

39:54already a noticed second public hearing.

39:56So we don't need to continue those

39:57hearings. And then uh we'll get to it in

39:59a little bit. But um the leadership is

40:01going to be asking to change the order

40:03of the day on some of our items to be

40:05sure that we can take up our uh public

40:07or budget public hearings first and some

40:09other time-sensitive public hearing

40:11items. Um and so we'll get to that when

40:13we when we get to it. But just to note

40:14the agenda uh as published is not quite

40:17the order we're going to take it up. Uh

40:19so this the public hearings on the

40:21budget are going to be uh for the

40:22operating budget that's AO 2026123

40:25that's funding for our public services

40:27and programs. Our capital budget um so

40:30the proposals for 2027 and then the

40:33six-year capital improvement program. Uh

40:35the capital budget is AO 2026124

40:39and then the CIP I don't have the uh

40:41item in front of me but it's a

40:42resolution uh that follows on from

40:44there. And then we'll also be hearing uh

40:47having public hearings on our operating

40:48and capital budgets for enterprises,

40:50utilities, and ACDA. So the bud

40:53municipalities budget is a reflection of

40:55the values, vision, and priorities of

40:57our community. This is the time to voice

40:58what you want to see funded next year uh

41:01this tonight's meeting and into

41:03November. Government budgets are

41:04certainly complicated, but you don't

41:06need to be an expert to provide input.

41:07So the assembly has a lot of information

41:09and resources to help guide uh you

41:11through the process. They can be found

41:13on our budget and taxes page which you

41:15can find at muni.org/asssembly

41:17under our priorities. Um and again

41:20echoing uh comments from the mayor. So

41:22the fiscal future initiative uh beyond

41:24kind of the budget issues that we're

41:26facing this year and into the future. We

41:27know we've got some longer term uh

41:29challenges and long-term decisions to

41:31make. Those decisions and choices are

41:33ours to make as a community. So we need

41:35to know your priorities as community

41:37members. So, for the fiscal future

41:38initiative, next week on Friday, October

41:4030th from 10:00 a.m. to 4 p.m., we'll be

41:42gathering at the UAA Student Union for

41:45our fiscal future summit to dive into

41:47how the budget works, talk with

41:48neighbors, and uh have folks share with

41:50each other the perspectives, weigh

41:51tradeoffs, and identify fiscal

41:53priorities for the future. Uh we're

41:55expecting good attendance. Um so, if you

41:57haven't already registered, you can do

41:58that uh online and please do so soon. If

42:02you can't make it or you can only uh

42:03join for a short part of it, we'd still

42:05love you uh to come for anytime you can.

42:07Uh but you can also complete a short

42:09survey to share your thoughts about our

42:11fiscal future. The links to the survey

42:13and event registration are on our

42:15website mun.org/asssembly.

42:17Again, in the budget section. Um another

42:20reminder for elections and early voting.

42:22So, as the mayor says, city hall is now

42:24open for early voting Monday through

42:26Friday, 8 a.m. to 5:00 p.m. and will

42:28also be open uh on Saturday, October

42:3024th, specifically to coincide with the

42:33AFN convention for convenience from noon

42:35to 3 p.m. And then city hall uh is only

42:38for early voting. So, as a reminder, do

42:40not plan on going to city hall for your

42:42uh voting on election day, which is

42:44November 3rd, uh because all precincts

42:46across the city and state will be open.

42:48However, uh another popular location

42:50that we know uh was really busy

42:51yesterday is the Midtown Mall. So, you

42:54can also go there both for early voting

42:56and also for election day. Uh they'll

42:58have ballots for all 40 districts as

43:00will uh the Ted Stevens International

43:01Airport on election day. This is our

43:03last meeting before voting. So, just a

43:05reminder to members uh make make a plan

43:07to vote and uh that goes for the

43:09everyone in the public and uh you can

43:11find all the information you would want

43:13about our elections at

43:14elections.alalaska.gov.

43:17And as a reminder, our next regular

43:18assembly meeting is going to be the day

43:20after election day, which is Wednesday,

43:22November 4th. Um, so not on a Tuesday as

43:24we normally do. Um, finally, one more

43:27brief remembrance tonight. Uh, two more

43:29people were killed on the roads in the

43:31municipality this month. Uh, a man was

43:34killed on 15th Avenue on October 13th

43:36and a woman was killed on Muloon Road on

43:38October 17th. In addition to, uh, the

43:41another recent death in September on

43:44September 18th uh, on 3rd Avenue. uh

43:46woman was killed there. That's a total

43:48of eight pedestrian deaths this year.

43:50Each incident is an individual story,

43:52but this continues a larger trend that

43:54has been well documented in the

43:55municipality and across the United

43:57States. Uh many or most of our roads are

43:59not designed for the safety of people

44:01who aren't in vehicles. Vehicles are

44:03getting larger and they're more likely

44:04to cause serious injury and death in

44:06collisions, especially at high speeds

44:08with folks who are walking and biking.

44:10And we cannot solve this issue alone

44:12through enforcement or by placing blame

44:14primarily on people who aren't in

44:15vehicles. It's certainly a complex

44:17issue. Uh but design and uh how we build

44:20our roads uh and and what our vehicles

44:22look like certainly matters. Better

44:24design, reducing vehicle speeds, and

44:25better ways for people to get around

44:27town are the long-term solutions.

44:29Federal and state action is also

44:31necessary to make our roads safer,

44:32something the MUN has and will keep

44:34advocating for. In the meantime, as a

44:36reminder to all of us, September and

44:38October are the deadliest months for

44:40people walking and biking on Anchorage

44:41roads. There's more hours of darkness,

44:43ice, and snow on the roads, and drivers

44:46are adjusting to winter conditions and

44:47that lower light. So, everyone can do

44:49their part to make our streets safer,

44:51whether you're walking, biking, or

44:52driving. Uh remember to drive the speed

44:54limit, stay off distractions like cell

44:56phones, look both ways before crossing,

44:58uh use headlights, and make yourself

45:00visible in the dark if you're walking or

45:02biking.

45:03So, with that, I'll do my best to move

45:05us through tonight's agenda so we can

45:06conclude at the most reasonable hour

45:08possible with our usual reminders. This

45:10is a business meeting. We are here to do

45:12the work of the municipality. Please

45:13help create a climate of respect in the

45:15chambers. Please refrain from personal

45:17attacks, speaking out of turn, shouting,

45:19clapping, and pacing. Keep signs to 8

45:21and a half and 11 in uh in size. Please

45:24keep the aisle clear unless you're lined

45:26up to testify. Please don't approach the

45:28dis. If you do have something to share

45:29with members, you can hand it to the

45:30clerk um for distribution at the lower

45:32dis. Please stop speaking if a point of

45:35order is called so that I may rule on

45:36the point of order and the record is

45:38clear and that's for both testimony and

45:40during debate. If rules are not

45:42followed, I may interrupt speakers to

45:43call for compliance. And if compliance

45:45with the rules doesn't occur, then I may

45:47pause the meeting. If there's an actual

45:48disruption, I will give a warning. And

45:50if the disruption persists or happens

45:52again, the person will be asked to

45:53leave. And then I'll save my public

45:56testimony reminders when we get to that.

45:57Um, but finally I'll say if there are

45:59any students in the audience this

46:00evening, um, high school, college,

46:02anybody, um, if you're here for a class,

46:04um, if you stick around till at least

46:06the dinner break, um, we'll call you up

46:08before we break for dinner to ask you to

46:10share your name, your school or group,

46:11and the class that you're here for. And

46:13if you do need a signature to prove you

46:14were here, um, you can find your

46:16assembly members during the dinner break

46:17to sign your form.

46:20So, I think I covered all of the items

46:23we need to. So, next we'll move on to

46:25Sorry, one second.

46:31Thank you. So next we'll move on to uh

46:33committee and liaison reports. So I'll

46:34start this evening with Mr. Johnson.

46:38>> No report chair.

46:40>> Okay. Next, Miss Park.

46:41>> No report chair.

46:43>> Mr. McCormack.

46:44>> Nothing to report. Thank you,

46:45>> Miss Scout.

46:47Yeah, the um newly formed energy

46:50enterprise and utilities oversight

46:53committee of the whole met on Thursday,

46:56October 15th. Um we had a great first

46:59meeting primarily focused on hearing

47:01updates about what's happening at Meill

47:03Field and um how the community can be

47:06involved. Thanks.

47:08>> Thank you. Next, Miss Baldwin Day. Thank

47:11you, chair. Uh the municipal audit

47:13committee meets tomorrow at 1 p.m. at

47:15city hall. We will be uh hearing an

47:17overview of u the community development

47:20block grant. That's federal funding

47:21that's received by our health department

47:22for a variety of purposes and we'll be

47:24understanding how administration of that

47:26grant is currently happening and how

47:28things have changed. Thank you.

47:31>> Thank you. Next, Mr. Bowand.

47:33>> Thank you, Madam Chair. The budget and

47:35finance committee met on October 15th.

47:38Um, in addition to our normal reports

47:40and updates, one topic of discussion was

47:42the process for assembly members to

47:44bring amendments to the upcoming budget

47:46as we work with our new branch budget

47:48analyst. On the topic of the budget, um

47:52there are uh we we held our first sort

47:55of marathon work session. It was a

47:58five-hour work session on October 16th

48:01to discuss the general government and

48:04capital budgets. We will have another

48:07long work session on October 23rd

48:10um continuing the conversation about the

48:12general government budget but also

48:15enterprise and utilities budgets. Um and

48:18then on November 6th will be our work

48:20session on assembly member proposed

48:23amendments to the budget. And then as

48:26you all heard uh in in both the mayor

48:28and chair's reports, um October 30th at

48:33the UAA student union building is going

48:35to be the fiscal future summit. So hope

48:38folks will um be able to attend that.

48:40Thank you, Madam Chair.

48:42>> Thank you. Next, Mr. Perezia.

48:45>> No update this evening. Thank you,

48:47>> Miss Silvers.

48:50Yeah, the um

48:53health and homelessness committee meets

48:55tomorrow um from 11 to 12:30 um and we

49:00will be discussing uh Willow Commons um

49:04shelter surge uh capacity update. Um a

49:07potential abatement in Far North Park.

49:10Uh litigation update on abatement

49:12actions uh and a housing voucher

49:15program. Um thanks

49:19Thank you. Next, Mr. Girker,

49:21>> report. Thank you, Chair.

49:22>> Mr. Martinez.

49:24>> Thank you, Chair. The next meeting of

49:25the Housing and Community and Economic

49:27Development Committee will meet on

49:28Thursday, November 5th. One reminder,

49:31committees are spaces, and especially

49:33this committee for practical solutions,

49:35ideas, and we work on things in real

49:37time, but we also plant seeds and

49:38connect dots. And recently, we had Fonda

49:41come and present an update on their

49:43economic impact. And I just wanted to uh

49:47parallel something that the mayor

49:49described as uh how we keep our economy

49:53moving all year long. And today uh Visit

49:56Anchorage in their update uh their their

49:58newsletter reports that year round

50:00tourism means giving more people the

50:02opportunity to build a livelihood and

50:05the place they call home, providing jobs

50:08uh and uh and connections all year long.

50:12And so at the next meeting we're going

50:14to bring uh we have the opportunity

50:16thanks to the Anchorage Community

50:18Development Authority for making the

50:19connection with Kicking Randall uh

50:22Olympian and is also the executive

50:25director of the Nordic Ski Association

50:27of Alaska. And the hope is that her

50:29presentation on the upcoming Nordic ski

50:33season, we can begin to connect some of

50:36the dots between what our winter season

50:39looks like between Ferande, some of the

50:41Arctic activity, and really begin to

50:43look at the yearround economy,

50:46especially related to tourism. This year

50:48was a phenomenal year in terms of

50:49visiting Anchorage, but we would like

50:51people to stay a little longer and go a

50:53little further. Thank you, Chair.

50:56>> Thank you. And next, Mr. Handeland.

50:59>> Nothing to report.

51:01>> Okay, that takes us through our

51:03committee and leazison reports. Next,

51:05we'll go through our um addendum to the

51:07agenda. And before we do that, um we

51:10will take care of our laid on the table

51:11items. Um I'll note that I'm going to

51:13read most of the supplemental items uh

51:15in the record. Now, there's one that

51:16I'll I'll do when we get to that item

51:18later. And then there are three items

51:20for action. They are resolutions, so

51:21they will need at least seven votes to

51:23lay on the table. And then for each of

51:25them, uh, they are items that would be

51:27in our consent agenda, but I'm going to

51:28turn to the municipal manager to speak

51:30to the timeliness for each of those. So,

51:32first I will do the supplemental items.

51:34Uh, so there are two of them for now,

51:35and that is uh unnumbered AIM um 2026.

51:40That would become 10F11 administration's

51:42answers to assembly questions. And then

51:44the second supplemental item is uh

51:47unnumbered A IM206

51:49articles regarding surveillance

51:50technology in relation to AO2026108

51:54and its substitute versions.

51:57>> Okay.

51:58>> Okay. And sorry I was just uh handed a

52:00late breaking uh sorry before I do that

52:02uh that item will be 11B and it's

52:04attached to um that item on our agenda.

52:07The second one is also attached to 11B.

52:09It is a uh unnumbered AIM

52:13uh on regarding AO2026 108 S1 from vice

52:17chair Boland. It is attached um uh it's

52:20it's it's a statement so it's attached

52:22to the S1 version. So those are the

52:24supplemental items and then we will turn

52:27back to our and as I said there's one

52:28that I'll read later in the meeting and

52:30then uh we'll turn back to our items for

52:32action. So, um I'm going to read each of

52:34them into the agenda individually so we

52:36can um uh speak to the timeliness and

52:39then take a vote. The first one is 10D2

52:42or will be 10D23 if it's laid on the

52:44table that is unnumbered AM 2026

52:47recommendation of award of a contract to

52:49HDR Engineering uh Inc. to provide

52:51professional engineering services for

52:53downtown transit center project number

52:56TR000028

52:58for municipality of Anchorage. Um, so

53:01again, our

53:03one second.

53:09Thank you. So, I'm seeking a motion to

53:11lay this item on on the table in a

53:13second.

53:14>> So, moved.

53:14>> Second.

53:16>> Okay. There's a motion um from Miss

53:18Baldwin Day, second by Mr. Volen to lay

53:20this item on the table. I'm going to

53:22turn to the administration to speak to

53:23the timeliness of this.

53:25>> Thank you, chair. All three of these

53:26laid on the item laid on the table items

53:29that require justification have a

53:30similar construction timeline story.

53:33This is in order for the project to meet

53:35its overall constructability and bonding

53:38goals. So we're doing design on a

53:39timeline and then that will set us up

53:41for future success down the road.

53:45>> Okay. Thank you. Um and next in the

53:47queue I have Mr. Handeland. Yes,

53:49[clears throat] madam chair for uh the

53:52lay on the t lay on the table uh

53:54memorandum concerning HDR. I've got a

53:56conflict of interest with them and so I

53:58don't know if I need to leave for that

54:01portion or

54:03>> okay

54:04>> how that all works.

54:04>> Yes. So our usual procedure so you you

54:06have a substantial public interest uh or

54:08sorry private interest. Can you just

54:10briefly describe that?

54:12>> Yes. So I used to work for HDR less than

54:14a year ago. I also still own uh um uh

54:18stock in that company.

54:21>> Thank you. And then just for the record

54:22as well, um did you have any I guess did

54:25you do any professional work on this

54:26particular project and were you involved

54:29in the procurement process for this?

54:31>> No.

54:32>> Okay. Thank you. Um, so given the

54:34ownership uh share uh and and recent

54:38employment, I'm going to find that you

54:39do have a uh substantial interest in

54:41this or I should say specifically

54:43because of the ownership share. Um, and

54:45so I'll ask you to step out of the room

54:46for the moment. And then I will also

54:48note I know there's a second item on our

54:50agenda. So we will um deal with that

54:52when it comes up, but I imagine we'll

54:53hear a similar disclosure. Uh, okay. I

54:56don't see anyone else in the queue. So

54:58members may proceed to vote on this

55:00item. And again, this is to lay this on

55:02the table. So, it needs at least seven

55:04votes and then it would be on the

55:05consent agenda. So, someone is welcome

55:06to pull it if they do have additional

55:08discussion on this item. So, members may

55:11proceed to vote.

55:17>> Oh, yeah. And sorry, I was remembering

55:19we're supposed to do this first. Um,

55:21also asking the youth representative,

55:22what is your vote?

55:24>> Yes.

55:25>> Okay. Youth representative uh votes yes.

55:39On a vote of 11 to zero, this item has

55:41been laid on the table. It will be item

55:4310D23 if anyone would like to pull it

55:45later. Next, we'll do uh the first of

55:48our two additional appropriation items.

55:50Uh this first one is unnumbered AR 2026

55:54a resolution of the Anchorage Municipal

55:55Assembly appropriating donation funds

55:57from the Anchorage Library Foundation to

55:59the library department in the amount of

56:00$150,000 to the library department mis

56:03miscellaneous operational grants fund 26

56:06uh 1 010 for furniture and equipment at

56:09the downtown branch library. This one

56:11similarly needs a motion for

56:13introduction to lay on the table.

56:14>> So moved.

56:16>> Second.

56:16>> Okay. Motion by Mr. and second by uh

56:19Miss Park and I will turn to the

56:20administration to speak to timeliness.

56:22>> Thank you, Madam Chair. This is the

56:24first of two items that we are hoping to

56:26lay on the table in order to enable the

56:28downtown library to open this calendar

56:30year. Um this one is for furniture and

56:34equipment. We are happy to receive

56:35$150,000 donation from the Anchorage

56:38Library Foundation. This will allow us

56:40to procure all of that in time.

56:44>> Okay. Thank you. I don't see uh

56:47additional members in the queue. So

56:49members may proceed to vote on this

56:51item. And how does the youth

56:52representative vote?

56:54>> Yes.

56:56Okay. And this is to lay on the table.

57:12Okay. Okay. On a vote of 12 to zero,

57:14this item is uh laid on the table and

57:16then this will be item 10E5 for anyone

57:19who wishes to pull it. Uh last one we'll

57:21read uh right now is resolution

57:23unnumbered AR2026

57:25uh a resolution of the Anchorage

57:26Municipal Assembly appropriating

57:28donation funds from the Friends of the

57:29Library and to the library department in

57:31the amount of $100,000 all to the

57:34library department. Miscellaneous

57:35Operational Grants Fund 26 or 261

57:39010 for books and materials of the

57:41downtown branch library.

57:44Uh similar um seeking a motion to lay

57:46this on the table.

57:48>> So moved.

57:48>> Second. Okay. Motion by uh Mr. Bullen,

57:51second by Miss Scout. Uh again turning

57:53to the administration for timeliness.

57:55>> And thank you, Madam Chair. Folks may

57:57know there are two nonprofits that

57:59largely support the library. We just put

58:02on the agenda one from the Anchorage

58:03Library Foundation. Now, this is the

58:05Friends of the Library coming to the

58:07table with $100,000 which we would like

58:09to appropriate so that we can procure

58:11books and materials for the opening of

58:13the downtown library this calendar year.

58:19>> Thank you. Don't see anyone else in the

58:20queue. So, members may proceed to vote.

58:22This is to lay this item on the table.

58:24Um, and how does the youth

58:25representative vote?

58:27>> Yes.

58:35Okay. On a vote of 12 to zero, this item

58:37has also been laid on the table. This

58:39will be item 10E6 in the consent agenda.

58:46Oops. That takes care of our laid on the

58:48table items for now. Um and uh so now we

58:51have our laid on the table items

58:54addendum to the agenda. So seeking a

58:56motion to incorporate the addendum

58:57including those laid on the table items.

58:59>> So moved.

59:00>> Second.

59:01>> Motion by Miss Park, second by Mr.

59:02Boland. Uh any further discussion from

59:04members?

59:08>> Any objection to adoption of this uh the

59:10addendum and laid on the table?

59:14Seeing and hearing none, uh the addendum

59:16to the agenda uh including those laid on

59:18the table items has been adopted. And

59:20again, if folks wish to discuss any of

59:22those, um, they can be pulled in a short

59:24time. So, uh, next we will move on to

59:27our appearance request. We have an

59:29unusual, uh, full set of three

59:30appearance requests this evening. So, we

59:32will take them up in the order they are

59:33on the agenda. So, first I'm going to

59:35call up Miss Michaela Franklin.

59:44>> Hello.

59:45>> Okay. And then, uh, I see you're

59:47assembled here. So, uh, microphone is

59:49on, so state your name and, uh, you'll

59:51have three minutes.

59:52>> Hi, thank you. Um, my name is Michaela

59:55Franklin. I'm a social worker and I'm

59:58the youth systems improvement manager at

59:59the Anchorage Coalition to End

1:00:01Homelessness. Um, this is Kenny. I think

1:00:04you all know Kenny. He's my friend and

1:00:06he is my emotional support person

1:00:08because I'm scared to speak in public.

1:00:10Um, the reason I'm here today is because

1:00:12I wanted to spread the word about

1:00:14Project Homeless Connect. It's one of

1:00:16our largest community events every year

1:00:18and it's happening this Monday, the

1:00:2026th, from 10 to 4 at the Egan Center.

1:00:24Last year, we thought we'd get 500

1:00:26people and we got 1,200 people

1:00:28experiencing homelessness come through

1:00:30the door to get services. Um, I came

1:00:33here originally to ask for volunteers,

1:00:36but um, our community is incredible and

1:00:39we maxed out all of the volunteers this

1:00:42year. Um, we have more than 70 service

1:00:45providers and community partners coming

1:00:48together to help the unhoused folks in

1:00:50our community get resources all in one

1:00:53place. Um, we're going to have be having

1:00:56health care providers, housing

1:00:58resources, folks to help with IDs and

1:01:00birth certificates, haircuts, legal

1:01:03services. They're going to get a hot

1:01:05meal meal prepared by beans. They're

1:01:07going to get a winter jacket. And

1:01:09there's a lot more. Um, I handed these

1:01:12to the clerk, so you should all have the

1:01:14little quarter sheet. It has a short

1:01:16list of some of the things that will be

1:01:18provided. It's free. People mover bus

1:01:21all day that day. And the third avenue

1:01:24resource and navigation center with

1:01:26Catholic Social Services will have their

1:01:28shuttle running as well. Um, we're

1:01:30grateful for all the volunteers that

1:01:32come and are helping us. Our biggest

1:01:35request now is that we all make sure

1:01:37that the community members who need us

1:01:39and need these services the most know

1:01:41where to go and when we're going to be

1:01:43there. So on Monday the 26th from 10 to

1:01:484, we're going to be at the Egan Center.

1:01:50We're going to have mobile vaccine

1:01:52clinics, all sorts of people there to

1:01:54help the the most vulnerable of our

1:01:56community. Um I have many more flyers,

1:02:00many many more. And I have more at my

1:02:02office. And if you want flyers, I'll

1:02:04email them out to anybody. Um, I just

1:02:07want folks to know that we're here to

1:02:09support them. Um, as winter approaches,

1:02:12this is the opportunity to connect our

1:02:15people with practical support, with

1:02:18welcome and arms and and a hug and a

1:02:21hello and a hi, my friend. You know,

1:02:23those are what our people need. Um, so

1:02:27please thank you for listening. Uh thank

1:02:29you for getting the word out. And all of

1:02:32the members on the dis have a a special

1:02:35invitation to come check out the space.

1:02:37If you'd like prior to when we open, you

1:02:39got to email my boss. You all know

1:02:41Jessica uh J Parksac.org.

1:02:44And if you want to know more about

1:02:46Project Homeless Connect, go to

1:02:48acce.orgc.

1:02:53Thank you.

1:02:57>> Thank you. Um, I don't see anyone else

1:02:59in the queue. Um, so thank you for for

1:03:02providing this information. And again,

1:03:04Project Homeless Connect is on Monday,

1:03:06October 26. So, thank you. And please

1:03:08see the folks down there uh during the

1:03:09break if you have questions or would

1:03:11like some flyers.

1:03:13Okay. Uh, next we'll move on to our

1:03:15second appearance request. Um, and that

1:03:17is uh Miss Tanya um Crochenko. Is she in

1:03:21the audience? Okay. Thank you. Please

1:03:22come forward.

1:03:26[laughter]

1:03:26Yeah. Thank you. Um, so first, uh,

1:03:29please press the button on the bottom

1:03:30there and then when the light turns

1:03:32green, the microphone is on and then,

1:03:34uh, state your name and you'll have

1:03:35three minutes. Thank you.

1:03:36>> Tanya Crochenko. Um, dear assembly

1:03:39members, thank you for your time tonight

1:03:41and it's my pleasure to be heard. Um, my

1:03:45question, if a dog or cat were shot with

1:03:47a firearm, struck by darts and arrows,

1:03:50left paralyzed to suffer, would we

1:03:52accept this as just another day in

1:03:54Anchorage?

1:03:56My answer is it's unacceptable.

1:03:58Then why are domestic rabbits any

1:04:01different? In recent weeks, um, four

1:04:05rabbits have been involved in three

1:04:06disturbing incidences. Um, on September

1:04:0926th, I was called to help a paralyzed

1:04:11rabbit reportedly shot with a 22

1:04:14alongside his sister at midnight on a

1:04:17Friday in a private yard. The female

1:04:19bunny was killed. Gunfire woke several

1:04:22neighbors. I spoke with witnesses,

1:04:24contacted police, animal controlled, all

1:04:27the other agencies,

1:04:28and I was deeply concerned by the

1:04:31limited response and the lack of clear

1:04:33path forward. I was left to care for the

1:04:36bunny for 24 hours and then just had to

1:04:38eventually get it euthanized. I noticed

1:04:41also from this incident that people are

1:04:43so scared to report the cruelty, the

1:04:46gunfire,

1:04:48just fear for themselves and for their

1:04:51properties.

1:04:52So, I reported um a second incident

1:04:55included a rabbit with a dart lodged in

1:04:57its side. A group of pre-teen and

1:04:59teenagers came to a house, asked if they

1:05:01can look for rabbits in the person's

1:05:04yard. when they asked why some guy who

1:05:07lives on another street was paying them

1:05:09to find, shoot, and kill the rabbits.

1:05:11This is breaking a law. And there's

1:05:13another photo I have in there with the

1:05:15bunny with the dart in it. Third

1:05:17incident began last week with animal

1:05:19control asking if I would just help with

1:05:21the rabbit. They had health concerns.

1:05:24Um, I adopted this bunny, thought

1:05:26there's nothing wrong, saw the vet the

1:05:28next day, clear health. Um, and here

1:05:32this b this bunny was going to be

1:05:34euthanized for health concerns. They

1:05:36just didn't have the knowledge. Um, and

1:05:40I respect animal control, but they just

1:05:41need help. Rabbits require knowledgeable

1:05:45handling and appropriate veterinary

1:05:47care. Um, spaying and neutering is not

1:05:50provided at animal control because they

1:05:52believe there's a 50/50 chance of them

1:05:55surviving, but that's absolutely wrong.

1:05:58Um, it's 99%. Uh, in 15 years I have

1:06:02rescued rabbits, 80 neuters. This is all

1:06:05out of our own pocket and 20 spays. We

1:06:07only lost one male bunny, and that was

1:06:10this year. Um, in closing, we cannot

1:06:14solve the problem of loose rabbits

1:06:15through cruelty, neglect, or simply

1:06:17telling a people to leave these animals

1:06:19alone. Domestic rabbits are not wild

1:06:22hairs, and many are abandoned pets who

1:06:25cannot safely fend for themselves. I am

1:06:28asking our municipal leaders to take

1:06:30three steps and first is to encourage to

1:06:33ensure reports of cruelty against

1:06:36domestic rabbits to be taken seriously,

1:06:38investigated and followed up. Um there's

1:06:41two other points and you I have attached

1:06:43that to my uh handout [laughter] if you

1:06:46want to look at them.

1:06:47>> Yeah, thank you. I'll ask if you can

1:06:48provide it in writing and then if you

1:06:50provide it to the um clerk's staff then

1:06:52they can circulate it to everyone. So,

1:06:54thank you for being here.

1:06:54>> I thank you for your time everyone.

1:06:58Oh, I'm sorry. Before you walk away, um

1:06:59I have Miss Scout in the queue for you.

1:07:02>> Yeah. Um I just wanted to ask what your

1:07:04two other points were.

1:07:06>> Oh. Um the second one is to improve

1:07:09rabbit specific care, vet access, and

1:07:11adoption practices through animal

1:07:13control. They have the staff, they care,

1:07:16but they're short-handed. And I come in

1:07:19there and get called upon just to help.

1:07:21And if I'm that person chosen, I'll help

1:07:24with every part of me. The third one is

1:07:27support humane population control

1:07:30through education, spaying and

1:07:32neutering, and cooperation with

1:07:34experienced rescuers.

1:07:38>> Okay. Thank you.

1:07:39>> Thank you.

1:07:40>> Thank you. And one more person in the

1:07:41queue, Miss Baldwin Day.

1:07:43>> Yeah. I just first wanted to thank you.

1:07:46Um I I know it's really difficult to to

1:07:48come and stand in front of all of us.

1:07:51>> This is a first time for me.

1:07:52>> So um so to to you and also to Michaela,

1:07:56I just wanted to say thank you for

1:07:57taking the time to come and speak.

1:07:59>> It's my pleasure.

1:08:00>> Much appreciated and and I know the

1:08:02intimidation factor is real.

1:08:04>> Thank you.

1:08:04>> Thank you.

1:08:06>> Okay. Thank you. And uh one more, Miss

1:08:07Park.

1:08:09>> Thank you, chair. Do you have an idea

1:08:11how many spay and neuter uh procedures

1:08:14you would anticipate needing to do

1:08:18for instance on a yearly basis?

1:08:20>> For instance, on the last page, there's

1:08:22um almost 20 bunnies at animal control

1:08:25right now and everybody always asks, are

1:08:28they spay and neutered? That increases

1:08:29their chances

1:08:31>> right now today to get adopted. So right

1:08:34now there's 20 but on a yearly basis

1:08:36would you have an idea how many would be

1:08:38>> need animal control itself or oh

1:08:41>> for rabbits alone?

1:08:42>> Oh hundreds and hundreds. It's it's

1:08:46>> just and yeah [laughter]

1:08:48>> okay it's too many numbers. Just

1:08:51definitely too many numbers. Every male

1:08:53that I catch um I will neuter. End of

1:08:57story. And he's they're happy. I mean

1:08:59they're just their hormones are under

1:09:01control. They're just happier animals.

1:09:04>> Thank you. Um yes, so if you provide um

1:09:06comments in writing, then I think

1:09:07members can digest them and then if you

1:09:09provide your contact information as well

1:09:11um in writing, then we can follow up.

1:09:12Thank you so much.

1:09:13>> Thank you so much all of you.

1:09:15>> Okay, so we'll move to our third

1:09:17appearance request this evening. So I'll

1:09:18invite up um Pastor Leon May.

1:09:22And as you're coming up, I know we had

1:09:24some uh discussion last meeting. Um and

1:09:26just to clarify um the way that you had

1:09:29submitted your appearance request, it

1:09:30did appear that you were um wanting to

1:09:32speak as a group. And I see there's a

1:09:33group of folks here. Um so I'm going to

1:09:35grant five minutes uh to speak. And uh I

1:09:38don't know if other folks are coming up

1:09:39as well. So um so we got the microphone

1:09:41is on, we've got the timing set, and

1:09:44please uh begin when you're ready.

1:09:46Thank you, Madam Chair, and uh to the

1:09:49assembly proper and to uh mayor of

1:09:52France and the administration. Uh I am

1:09:55pastor Leon D. May the 1st, River in the

1:09:57Desert Community Church, serve as

1:09:58president of the Interdenominational

1:10:01Ministerial Alliance of Anchorage and

1:10:03Viceity as well as the uh Martin Luther

1:10:06King Jr. Foundation of Alaska. And with

1:10:10me, Dr. Andre Parker is our executive

1:10:13secretary of both of those uh entities

1:10:17and uh these uh pastor Wilbert Mickens,

1:10:21Pastor Glenn Ratcliffe, they are members

1:10:23of both of those organizations

1:10:25and [snorts]

1:10:26uh let me let me say upfront both of

1:10:28those organizations are fully aware of

1:10:31our presence and the position that we

1:10:33take. And uh I did in my request say

1:10:37that we were speaking also on behalf of

1:10:39the black community at large. And uh I

1:10:42would venture to say the president of

1:10:44the NAACP and uh the Alaska Black

1:10:48Caucus, all of them are in alignment

1:10:50with what we are here to discuss. In our

1:10:54in our previous in our previous uh

1:10:56circumstance, we appealed uh to the

1:10:58assembly on the uh merit of grace and

1:11:02mercy as it relates to the censure of

1:11:05Assembly Member Martinez who just

1:11:08happens to be the only black member of

1:11:10the assembly. [snorts] Uh the black

1:11:13community is very concerned uh uh

1:11:15concerning the censure of him. It's a

1:11:18blight on his record and uh as I fored

1:11:22it's also a blight on the record of the

1:11:24assembly themselves in that there was

1:11:26not much president for this kind of

1:11:28thing maybe once very early in the

1:11:31assembly's history and uh this is uh

1:11:34kind of negative. Uh I I said last time

1:11:37that Assembly Member Martinez was

1:11:39basically centured pretty well uh by the

1:11:42public, by the community in light of all

1:11:44that uh that he endured as it related to

1:11:47that and and uh because of Apoch and uh

1:11:52what uh their findings were. there was

1:11:55an opinionated finding, not really

1:11:57factual findings on that on uh trip

1:12:00issues that were fully approved uh by

1:12:03the by the assembly and all of that. And

1:12:07uh even though many didn't agree with

1:12:09that finding, uh Assembly Member

1:12:12Martinez paid the fine upwards of

1:12:15$5,000.

1:12:17And uh our position is that after that

1:12:19fine was paid, that should have been the

1:12:21end of all of this. and the assembly did

1:12:24not need to go to the extent of uh

1:12:27putting forth a censure. uh and

1:12:30basically it appeared that it was uh put

1:12:34forth in in light and in view of

1:12:37maintaining integrity before John Q

1:12:39public and uh which was really in our

1:12:42estimation very unnecessary and uh I

1:12:45I'll quickly move on for the sake of

1:12:47time but in light of uh further

1:12:50renderings of of Apoch relative to uh

1:12:54Attorney General uh Trey Taylor who is

1:12:56running for our governor in this

1:12:59instance uh egregiously

1:13:04egregiously

1:13:05uh did some things that were unbecoming

1:13:07as it related to Apoch and their

1:13:09findings and all of that to the point

1:13:10where they literally took him out of the

1:13:13race. It was so egregious and uh because

1:13:16of I guess uh political pressure and

1:13:19other things uh he was uh kind of uh

1:13:23given a slap on the wrist uh so to

1:13:26speak. Given a slap on the wrist so to

1:13:28speak to uh to say that uh he was not

1:13:32fully aware didn't really had understand

1:13:34everything related to what he was doing.

1:13:37And I'm just paraphrasing just going

1:13:39through it fine lord and all of that. Uh

1:13:42well, a former attorney general, how

1:13:44could you not be aware of all of that?

1:13:46And I would say in view of that, uh uh

1:13:52how would I put it? I would say it like

1:13:54this, uh

1:13:58absent of knowledge, not understanding

1:14:00the law is no, uh reason to forego the

1:14:05civil disobedience aspect of it all. And

1:14:08as it relates to all of that, with those

1:14:10kind of findings and the

1:14:11heavy-handedness of Apoch relative to

1:14:13Mr. Martinez and yet not to Mr. Craig

1:14:16Taylor, our position is that it ought to

1:14:19give the assembly uh an enlightenment to

1:14:22see how Apoch handles things when it

1:14:25comes to one and yet not another. And it

1:14:28ought to cause you to go back and look

1:14:29at this all over again and see how

1:14:32unnecessary that censure was. Our

1:14:34position is that it should be rescended

1:14:37and somebody ought to have the

1:14:38conviction to do that. And my prayer is

1:14:40that God would convict somebody to make

1:14:43a move to write this blight and this

1:14:46wrong and that is our position.

1:14:51>> Thank you for participating. Um I don't

1:14:53see any

1:14:55>> I don't see any members.

1:14:56>> Thank you so much. Thank you.

1:15:03Uh, actually, um, Pastor May, if you'd

1:15:05like to come back up. Miss Baldwin Day

1:15:06in the queue.

1:15:11>> Thank you, Pastor May, for being here.

1:15:12Um, I just wanted to state on the record

1:15:14that I I made a commitment to you. Uh, I

1:15:17think it's been several weeks ago now to

1:15:20to meet with you on this topic and and

1:15:22then I lost track of that request. And I

1:15:24just wanted to state here for the record

1:15:25that I do intend to follow through on

1:15:28that commitment to meet with you and

1:15:29whomever else would like to meet with me

1:15:30on this topic and wanted that to be very

1:15:33clear that I I dropped the ball on that

1:15:35meeting and would like to make that

1:15:36right.

1:15:37>> Well well I understand and I understood

1:15:39that and I know we all busy even as I am

1:15:42and we even have we made time for this

1:15:44and we all going to have to leave but

1:15:46but I thank you for making that

1:15:47acknowledgement and I was not going to

1:15:49bother you about it again. I received

1:15:52>> the bother is welcome sir. I I received

1:15:54communication from Chair Broly uh on

1:15:57behalf of this and and thank you again

1:15:59for allowing the extra minutes. I was

1:16:01going to try to do it in three, but

1:16:03thank you for giving me those extra

1:16:05minutes on tonight.

1:16:07>> Thank you.

1:16:09>> Okay, that concludes our appearance

1:16:11requests. So, next we'll move on to the

1:16:14uh consent agenda and so we'll go down

1:16:16the dis um and so members can uh pull

1:16:19items. And one sec.

1:16:26Okay. Um, so I'm going to start this

1:16:28evening with Mr. Handeland. Uh, 10 delta

1:16:3120, 22, and 23.

1:16:38Okay, I have 10 delta 20, 23, 2, and 23.

1:16:44and one second.

1:16:54>> Okay, thank you. So, uh, next I have Mr.

1:16:56Martinez.

1:16:58>> I'll pull to item 10 A1.

1:17:02>> Okay, I have 10 A1. Uh, next, Mr.

1:17:05Girker.

1:17:05>> No items. Thank you, Chair.

1:17:07>> Okay, next, Miss Silvers.

1:17:09>> No items. Thank you.

1:17:11>> Mr. Martinez or sorry, Mr. Preszia.

1:17:13>> No items. Thank you.

1:17:15>> Uh, Mr. Bond,

1:17:16>> no items. Thank you.

1:17:18>> Uh, Miss Baldwin Day.

1:17:22>> 10 Bravo 4 and 10 Foxtrot 2.

1:17:31I have 10 B4 and 10 F2. Next, Miss

1:17:34Scout.

1:17:35>> 10 Bravo 1.

1:17:39>> Okay. 10 B1. Next, Mr. McCormack.

1:17:43No further items. Thank you.

1:17:44>> And Miss Park,

1:17:45>> no items. Thank you, Chair.

1:17:47>> And Mr. Johnson?

1:17:48>> No items. Chair.

1:17:49>> Okay. Thank you. Um, so I'll read them

1:17:51back. So I have 10 alpha 1, 10 Bravo uh

1:17:541 and sorry, 10 alpha 1, Mr. Martinez,

1:17:5710 Bravo 1, Miss Scout, 10 Bravo 4, Miss

1:18:00Baldwin Day. Um, 10 Delta 20, 22 and 23,

1:18:04Mr. Handeland. 10, uh, Fox Trot 2, Miss

1:18:07Baldwin Day. And I believe those are the

1:18:10items. Is there any additional items to

1:18:12pull?

1:18:14Okay, I don't see any. Uh, one

1:18:16additional direction uh on 10 G2, that

1:18:19is just an item being introduced um

1:18:21directing the clerk to change the public

1:18:22hearing date from November 4th to

1:18:24November 17th. That is in our continual

1:18:27effort to uh balance out the the

1:18:29workload for our various meeting

1:18:30agendas.

1:18:34Yep. Just uh 10 G2. Okay. Uh any further

1:18:38discussion on consent agenda? Any

1:18:41additional items to pull?

1:18:43Any objection to abduction? Abduction.

1:18:46Sorry. I do. Oh, yeah. We need a motion.

1:18:48Sorry. Okay. Um I need a motion on the

1:18:51consent agenda.

1:18:51>> Move to approve the consent agenda minus

1:18:53the pulled items.

1:18:54>> Second. Okay. Thank you. A motion by Mr.

1:18:56Bullen to approve the consent agenda

1:18:58minus the pulled items. Second by Miss

1:18:59Scout. Now, any further discussion on

1:19:01this?

1:19:03Any objection to adoption of the content

1:19:06consent agenda minus the pulled items.

1:19:10Okay. Seeing and hearing none, um then

1:19:12the consent agenda has been approved uh

1:19:14minus items that have already been

1:19:16pulled. I will also note there was one

1:19:17item for a confir uh confirmation

1:19:20tonight. The discussion was that that

1:19:21person will get sworn in. Um so

1:19:23congratulations to Mr. Crawford uh for

1:19:26being confirmed and uh but that will not

1:19:28take place in our meeting just for

1:19:29clarity. Uh, so we will move through Oh,

1:19:32and sorry. Before uh we move to the rest

1:19:34of the consent agenda, I I forgot to

1:19:37read one laid on the table supplemental

1:19:39item into the record. So, I'm going to

1:19:40do that really quick so that I don't

1:19:42forget. And that is unnumbered AIM uh

1:19:45for attached to item 11B AO 2026 108 and

1:19:49its uh substitute versions articles

1:19:51regarding surveillance technology in

1:19:53relation to AO 20226 108 and its

1:19:55substitute versions. So, that's been

1:19:57read into the record.

1:20:00So next we will move to our uh first uh

1:20:03res recognition resolution this evening

1:20:0510A1 that is resolution AR2026297

1:20:09a rank resolution of the Anchorage

1:20:11Assembly and Mayor Lef France welcoming

1:20:13delegates and attendees to the 60th

1:20:15anniversary of the Alaska Federation of

1:20:17Natives Convention October 22 through

1:20:1924, 2026.

1:20:21>> Move to approve.

1:20:23>> Second. Okay. Motion by Mr. Martinez to

1:20:25approve. Second by Miss Baldwin Day. Any

1:20:27further discussion on this item?

1:20:30Any objection to adoption of this item?

1:20:34Seeing hearing none, uh, this item has

1:20:36been unanimously adopted. Um, and I'll

1:20:39check, is there anyone here to receive

1:20:40this evening?

1:20:43Don't believe I see anyone in the

1:20:45audience.

1:20:49I know we had reached out to a few

1:20:51folks, but I know AFN is always a busy

1:20:53uh event. So I think I'll suggest since

1:20:55we don't have anyone to present that we

1:20:57will uh skip reading tonight. Um and in

1:20:59lie of that I will just strongly

1:21:00encourage folks to attend the AFN

1:21:02convention later this uh week whether

1:21:04you're stopping by city hall and you

1:21:06have some time or you're going this

1:21:07weekend. So again uh please go there and

1:21:10uh great to see another anniversary

1:21:12being uh celebrated for their 60th

1:21:15anniversary of that organization and the

1:21:17first um convening. So encourage folks

1:21:19to read it if you haven't already. Um,

1:21:21and then I'll also note we did have a

1:21:22couple other recognition resolutions on

1:21:24the agenda, but we don't have folks to

1:21:25uh receive them, so we are just leaving

1:21:27them in the consent agenda. So, that

1:21:29will take us next to item 10B1, and that

1:21:32is uh resolution AR2026298,

1:21:35a resolution of the Anchorage Assembly

1:21:37recognizing the one-year anniversary of

1:21:38Typhoon Halong, remembering the western

1:21:40Alaska communities and residents

1:21:42affected by the disaster, and urging

1:21:44state and federal action to support

1:21:46disaster recovery, community

1:21:47self-determination, and resilience in

1:21:49coastal Alaska. This item was pulled by

1:21:51Miss Scout.

1:21:54>> Thank you. Um, I wanted to make sure we

1:21:58publicly stated our recognition of the

1:22:00one-year anniversary of TYO.

1:22:02>> Sorry. Uh, Miss Scout, first of we'll do

1:22:04our motion to approve and sorry

1:22:05comments. That's okay. [laughter]

1:22:06>> Move to approve.

1:22:07>> Second.

1:22:08>> Motion by Miss Scout to approve. Second

1:22:10by Mr. Poland. Please proceed, Miss

1:22:11Scout.

1:22:12>> Thanks. Um,

1:22:14yeah, as I said, one year anniversary of

1:22:17Typhoon Halong, which is a somber

1:22:20anniversary. Um, and important for us in

1:22:24Anchorage to recognize and wanted to

1:22:27really state that, [snorts]

1:22:29um, I I believe we've learned a lot as a

1:22:32municipality from this experience. And I

1:22:35don't believe um this is the last time

1:22:38that we will face a situation like this

1:22:42one. And so as we move forward into a

1:22:45future where we are likely to see um

1:22:48increased

1:22:49disasters and severity of natural

1:22:52disasters um wanted to share that

1:22:55Anchorage is a welcoming place and a

1:22:58place that we can and must be building

1:23:02to adapt to the future we are heading

1:23:04into. Here in Anchorage, neighbors are

1:23:08welcome. Um, we need more federal and

1:23:11state investment in disaster

1:23:13preparedness and recovery to ensure that

1:23:15that um that neighbors are also

1:23:19comfortable. Um, and this investment

1:23:21must meet today's needs and center the

1:23:23lived experience of impacted

1:23:25communities. We recognize the lives lost

1:23:28and the two who remain missing as a

1:23:30result of this disaster and um we'll be

1:23:34sharing this resolution with other

1:23:37levels of government and relevant

1:23:39entities. So thank you.

1:23:42>> Thank you. And um one thing that I

1:23:45realized um in our publication and and

1:23:48maybe uh of interest uh I guess I'll ask

1:23:51uh if the mayor and then if other

1:23:54assembly members would like to join on

1:23:56this resolution as a sponsor.

1:23:58>> Yes, I believe my name was on here. I'd

1:24:00love to be added back. Thank you, chair.

1:24:02>> Okay, thank you. Yeah, I think that was

1:24:03an oversight on our part. And then um

1:24:05also um I guess I'll ask do any members

1:24:08object to being added?

1:24:10Okay, great. Yeah, thank you. Um, sorry

1:24:11I forgot to do that a little bit earlier

1:24:13and sorry for the oversight. This was we

1:24:14were doing this in partnership with the

1:24:16mayor's office just for the record. Um,

1:24:17and then uh next I have myself briefly

1:24:19in the queue.

1:24:20>> Miss Broly,

1:24:22>> thank you. Um, and thank thank you Miss

1:24:24Scout for um offering kind of the the

1:24:26why of this. Um it started as a

1:24:28recognition resolution and and but why

1:24:30it's in the 10Bs our our kind of policy

1:24:33resolution statements is because it is

1:24:35um trying to echo a lot of what we've

1:24:38heard and and seen in the news and

1:24:40what's been surfaced um regarding kind

1:24:42of what happens when a community is

1:24:44relocated um or or has to relocate and

1:24:47then um there's restrictions on FEMA

1:24:49funding and other policies that really

1:24:51force that community to to only look at

1:24:54going back to where they were and we

1:24:55know that that is not the will of at

1:24:57least one of the villages that was

1:24:58affected by Typhoon Hong and we know uh

1:25:01other situations as well. The other

1:25:03thing I will note for members um if for

1:25:05those of you who were here last year,

1:25:07you may remember that this time of year

1:25:09we were um I I was calling all everybody

1:25:11on a Wednesday night asking, "Hey, we

1:25:13need to call an emergency meeting um to

1:25:15pass a couple uh well to pass a

1:25:17resolution um of an emergency

1:25:19declaration and a temporary code

1:25:21change." So, I will also just note um uh

1:25:24that sometimes those things do come up.

1:25:26Um and then at our last meeting that

1:25:28will be on our agenda for November 4th,

1:25:30there is an item I don't have the

1:25:31ordinance number in front of me, but

1:25:33essentially it is a follow on to that

1:25:34action last year and it is making a

1:25:37proposing to make a more permanent code

1:25:38change um that allows for declaration of

1:25:41an emergency that is outside of our that

1:25:44happened outside of our boundaries but

1:25:45directly impacts Anchorage. So, that was

1:25:47a short-term change we had to make. Um

1:25:50uh but we we'll take that discussion up

1:25:52uh soon. But wanted to also just

1:25:54underscore um the gratitude for all of

1:25:56the folks who quickly responded in

1:25:58Anchorage and and in Bethl and other

1:26:00communities and um also thinking of all

1:26:02of the folks who are still either still

1:26:04living here or elsewhere and wanting to

1:26:06go um back to a more permanent home. And

1:26:09then next I have in the queue Mr.

1:26:11Martinez.

1:26:12>> Thank you, Chair.

1:26:14While we often debate

1:26:16what our our city is and what the future

1:26:19of our city is, we often we sometimes

1:26:22get a glimpse into the truth of our

1:26:23purpose through practice. And this

1:26:26particular resolution codifies a moment

1:26:29in time that is not unfamiliar with

1:26:32Anchorage where we have been the place

1:26:34of physical refuge providing safety and

1:26:37protection.

1:26:39Uh that's the definition of a sanctuary.

1:26:42Um, and so I wanted to just recognize

1:26:44that when we talk about housing, when we

1:26:47talk about the amenities of our

1:26:49community, when we talk about the

1:26:50quality of life here, and we talk about

1:26:53visitors and tourists, we for the state

1:26:56are the hub for a lot of reasons. And

1:27:00especially when things go bad in other

1:27:04parts of the state. And with the

1:27:06continuing changes to climate and the

1:27:09increasing nature of those catastrophes

1:27:12causing chaos in communities across the

1:27:14state, we will continue to be and

1:27:16probably more often than not the

1:27:18sanctuary place, the hub that this

1:27:21recognition uh this resolution

1:27:23recognizes. And so I hope that we can

1:27:25continue to think about ourselves and we

1:27:27develop our city around that practical

1:27:30truth um and and that will be meaningful

1:27:32to our pattern moving forward. Thank

1:27:34you, chair.

1:27:36>> Thank you. I don't see any other members

1:27:39in the queue. Um, so, uh, I guess I'll

1:27:42ask, is there any objection to adoption

1:27:44of this resolution?

1:27:48Okay, seeing hearing none, um, this

1:27:50resolution then is unanimously adopted.

1:27:51That's AR2026298.

1:27:55So, next we'll move on to item 10B4.

1:27:58That is AR2026304,

1:28:00a resolution of the Anchorage Assembly

1:28:02establishing a working group to evaluate

1:28:04seismic and other natural hazards and

1:28:06make recommendations regarding

1:28:07responsible development practices. This

1:28:09item was pulled by Miss Baldwin Day.

1:28:11>> Thank you, Chair. Move to approve.

1:28:12>> Second.

1:28:14>> Motion by Miss Baldwin Day, second by

1:28:15Mr. Martinez. Miss Baldwin Day.

1:28:17>> Yes. Thank you. I I wanted to to call

1:28:19this resolution to my colleagues

1:28:20attention. Um this is a a conversation

1:28:23that um really emerged out of the

1:28:25missing middle housing opportunity

1:28:26overlay discussion uh in which um there

1:28:29was um some concern raised by members of

1:28:31the community that uh potentially the

1:28:34development of multifamily housing in

1:28:37seismic zones four and five was um

1:28:41perhaps irresponsible or uh not well

1:28:43founded. And uh that led to a larger

1:28:46discussion uh at the geotechnical

1:28:48advisory commission who actually held

1:28:49two meetings on this topic in which they

1:28:52issued a recommendation that really um

1:28:54is very much along the lines of what's

1:28:56included in this resolution and that was

1:28:58a larger evaluation a larger discussion

1:29:00about how we treat seismic hazards. Um

1:29:03it turns out that we are in the process

1:29:04of updating the seismic hazard maps

1:29:06which were developed in 1979 uh

1:29:09following the 64 earthquake. Um the new

1:29:11maps um will likely have different

1:29:13designations than the maps we currently

1:29:15have and u may look a little different

1:29:17based on literal changes to the facts on

1:29:20the ground. No pun intended. Um so um

1:29:22this this resolution suggests that an

1:29:24appropriate move for the municipality to

1:29:26make would be to assemble a working

1:29:28group to think through how we treat

1:29:29seismic hazards. Uh right now we do that

1:29:32primarily through title 23 through our

1:29:33building code which has very robust um

1:29:36provisions made for any construction in

1:29:38a seismic hazard zone and um additional

1:29:41layers of geotechnical engineering that

1:29:42are required. Um but the the thought

1:29:44that we might start including uh seismic

1:29:47and other hazard prohibitions in title

1:29:4921 in our zoning code is new. Um that

1:29:51would be a very significant departure

1:29:53from how we have treated this topic as a

1:29:55municipality. Uh and it merits I think a

1:29:57broader conversation among our planning

1:30:00department. um certainly our building

1:30:01services folks, the planning and zoning

1:30:03commission, uh the geotechnical advisory

1:30:05commission, those who we have assembled

1:30:06to sort of be our resident experts on

1:30:08this topic. Uh so this calls for the

1:30:10establishment of a working group uh and

1:30:12once those haz uh seism the new seismic

1:30:14hazard maps are available that a report

1:30:16would be published back to the assembly

1:30:18with some recommendations as to how we

1:30:20might move forward in a holistic way. Um

1:30:22understanding that we are already doing

1:30:24quite a bit of work in seismic hazard

1:30:26zones four and five even as a

1:30:27municipality. In fact, three of the

1:30:29items that are before us tonight, um

1:30:3110E5, 10E6, and 10D23,

1:30:34uh which treat both the downtown, the

1:30:36new downtown transit center and the

1:30:38downtown library are situated in seismic

1:30:40zones four and five. So, uh this is

1:30:43salient. It is gerine to the work that

1:30:44we are doing as a community and I think

1:30:46something that we need to discuss in a

1:30:47more wholesome way as opposed to keeping

1:30:49it very narrowly tied to a potential

1:30:51zoning overlay proposal. So, um I urge

1:30:54my colleague support happy to answer

1:30:55questions. Thank you. Okay, next I have

1:30:58Mr. Martinez.

1:30:59>> Thank you, Chair. I have just a a quick

1:31:01statement and a question for the

1:31:02sponsor. Um, I think this is important

1:31:05and first of all, thank you to the

1:31:07sponsor for section uh the whereas

1:31:10section number eight. Uh, this

1:31:13identifies that this body has taken an

1:31:16action on preemptive emergency

1:31:18development and resiliency as one of the

1:31:20four guiding pillars of future

1:31:21development.

1:31:23This also recognizes that policy is

1:31:26iterative and takes place across time

1:31:28and sometimes you plant a seed and then

1:31:30as member Baldwin they describe this is

1:31:32a step in the direction of beginning to

1:31:36utilize uh that kind of framework of

1:31:39those types of questions into our

1:31:42planning and development process

1:31:44forward- facing not just reactionary and

1:31:46I think that's important my question so

1:31:48I support this wholeheartedly my

1:31:51question though is to the sponsor. Do

1:31:53you think um this call for a um the the

1:32:00group essentially the working group

1:32:04is something that

1:32:07interferes with current legislation that

1:32:10overlaps the question?

1:32:12>> Yeah, great question. Um I I see this as

1:32:14as a complimentary conversation. Uh so I

1:32:18think you know this group would

1:32:20hopefully be making recommendations that

1:32:22would extend to our treatment of seismic

1:32:24hazard zones four and five in a larger

1:32:27more holistic way as opposed to you know

1:32:30very narrowly dealing with what we might

1:32:32be doing in a zoning overlay. So so to

1:32:35me this is a a complimentary

1:32:36conversation but also uh one that we

1:32:40ought to be having regardless uh and

1:32:42that is how are we in fact dealing with

1:32:44hazards? how are we building resiliency

1:32:46into our community? Uh and that really

1:32:48mirrors the recommendation that was made

1:32:49by the geotechnical advisory commission

1:32:51themselves is th this is the dialogue

1:32:53that's needed as we are updating our

1:32:55seismic hazard maps.

1:32:57>> Thank you. Yes. And um and just to

1:33:03piggyback essentially the parallel track

1:33:06to this I think is identified as the

1:33:09WHISA project. the wildfire interface

1:33:12service area essentially is raising

1:33:14questions around where we develop and

1:33:17how we prepare financially for the

1:33:22challenges within those development

1:33:23areas. In this case, it's the wildfire

1:33:25interface area. So I think the question

1:33:27uh is ripe uh for a variety of ways and

1:33:30obviously the body has taken actions on

1:33:32the the idea that we should be thinking

1:33:35about preemptive development and

1:33:37resiliency uh before um we do uh

1:33:41development in the future. So thank you.

1:33:45>> Uh yes please respond Miss Bald.

1:33:48>> Thank you. Um yeah, and and and to that

1:33:50point, um you know, the the idea that we

1:33:52would um constrain development based on

1:33:54wildfire risk, that we would say, well,

1:33:56we're not going to allow any more

1:33:58housing development on the hillside

1:33:59because that's the area of greatest risk

1:34:02for wildfire. Um hasn't crossed the

1:34:05conversation yet. And and so I think

1:34:07there's an an additional question as as

1:34:09to you know how are we dealing with all

1:34:10of these different hazards which we know

1:34:12exist in our community and are we

1:34:14treating some of them differently than

1:34:16others and if so why and and should that

1:34:19be the case or should we treat all of

1:34:21them relatively similarly. So thank you

1:34:23for that.

1:34:25>> Okay. Next I have Mr. Bowand.

1:34:28>> Thank you Madam Chair. Um I I support

1:34:30this. I think it's a great idea. Um I

1:34:32I'm a big fan of this collaborative

1:34:35working group approach. Um

1:34:40as an assembly member um

1:34:43I've been able to kind of go through

1:34:45this type of process a couple times and

1:34:47I have I found it very productive. Um

1:34:51it was with the the former

1:34:53administration um that we were able to

1:34:56team up and do a working group on uh

1:34:59title 21 and title 23 changes uh to make

1:35:02it easier to build triplexes and

1:35:04forplexes. That was a I think a

1:35:07six-month timeline that we uh worked on

1:35:10and that was with planning department,

1:35:12building department, um fire inspectors,

1:35:15traffic department,

1:35:17um assembly members, members of the

1:35:20community, um a industry experts and and

1:35:24others. and our our legislative services

1:35:27team um in particularly uh Alli Hartman

1:35:30did did a a fantastic job of keeping us

1:35:33on track and taking notes and and

1:35:35convening us and um I think really great

1:35:38policy was born out of that. Um

1:35:43did a similar approach on the uh removal

1:35:46of parking minimums. Um there was a a

1:35:51working group that was um led by our

1:35:55former long range manager Christine

1:35:57Benell.

1:35:59Anna Broly prior to being an assembly

1:36:01member was involved in that working

1:36:02group. Um as well as myself and former

1:36:06members um uh Dunbar and Cross. And so

1:36:12anyway, I I just think that it's it's a

1:36:14great approach to take. Um and I want to

1:36:16see more of these productive

1:36:17collaborative dialogues between the

1:36:19branches. Um

1:36:23I also think it's a good idea to to have

1:36:25this conversation independently of MHOP.

1:36:30And I I think uh there's a couple

1:36:31reasons for that. Uh number one,

1:36:34[snorts]

1:36:34some of the areas in of of town where we

1:36:37have said we are going to allow allow

1:36:39the the densest level of development.

1:36:44I'm thinking of downtown. I'm thinking

1:36:47of bootleggers Cove. Those are much of

1:36:50that is in seismic four and five.

1:36:54We I think we also heard in a work

1:36:56session an explanation that you know

1:36:58maybe we should reconsider seismic zones

1:37:00four and five because they're less

1:37:02likely to be affordable housing. Well, I

1:37:05believe Elizabeth Place which is a Cook

1:37:08Inlet development downtown uh is in seis

1:37:12seismic 4 there on I Street and Sixth

1:37:15that that intersection. So I I don't

1:37:17think it's accurate to say that um the

1:37:20seismic zone is going to have a direct

1:37:22impact on

1:37:24the affordability or attainability of

1:37:26housing. So having a conversation that

1:37:30is that is specific to you know how do

1:37:33we engineer in these seismic zones um

1:37:36how can we address health life and

1:37:38safety um I think taking that up

1:37:41separately and and really I think it

1:37:44it's more of a title 23 question than it

1:37:46is a title 21 question but that can also

1:37:48be part of the conversation um what

1:37:50places in code do we want to touch um so

1:37:53anyway I hope um you all will support

1:37:56this and I think it's a great idea and I

1:37:57appreciate member Baldwin Day for

1:37:59bringing it forward. Thank you, Madam

1:38:00Chair.

1:38:01>> Okay. Next, I have Mr. Handeland.

1:38:03>> Yeah. Question for the sponsor. Um I

1:38:05know that this is uh kind of stems from

1:38:07uh MHOP uh with title 21. Is there a

1:38:10reason why I guess title 21 was not

1:38:13included as something uh kind of part of

1:38:16the review

1:38:18with this?

1:38:19>> Uh great question. Um I mean I I think

1:38:21they're they're welcome the working

1:38:23group is welcome to discuss whatever

1:38:25they like. Um, title 21 is named in the

1:38:28whereas statements. Uh, I think the the

1:38:30recommendation that was made from uh the

1:38:34geotechnical advisory commission was

1:38:35specific to title 23. So that's why I

1:38:37included that in section two in the

1:38:39resolved statements as they were

1:38:41particularly and that um their

1:38:42resolution is attached actually to this

1:38:44document. Uh, so there is title 23 named

1:38:48in their resolved section B as a very

1:38:51specific call out and so I've just

1:38:54utilized that in my own resolve

1:38:56statements.

1:38:57>> Thank you.

1:39:00>> Okay, I don't see any other members in

1:39:02the queue. Um, so members may proceed to

1:39:04vote. And what is the vote of the youth

1:39:06representative?

1:39:08>> Yes. Okay. Youth representative votes

1:39:11yes.

1:39:26on a vote of 12 to zero. Um, sorry, I

1:39:29just lost it. Um, hold on. Want to make

1:39:32sure I read the number. Thank you. Uh,

1:39:35AR2026 uh-304 passes the body

1:39:38unanimously. Oh, sorry. It was right in

1:39:40front of me. Um, okay. Moving on. And uh

1:39:42so that takes care of our 10bs. So now

1:39:43we're in the uh 10Ds. So first we have

1:39:46item 10D20.

1:39:48Um and I'm going to read it into the

1:39:49record and then I'm going to turn to uh

1:39:51Mr. Hendelan for a disclosure. That is

1:39:54uh AM6942026

1:39:56recommendation of award of a contract

1:39:58for professional divine design services

1:40:01with HDR Inc. for the waste to energy

1:40:03facility. Uh Mr. Handeland.

1:40:05>> Yeah, same disclosure as as before. Uh I

1:40:08was not aware of this uh contract that

1:40:10they were uh bidding on it. I know I've

1:40:12made some comments about the waste

1:40:14energy project uh as as a whole, but I

1:40:17had yeah no knowledge of HGR uh

1:40:21reviewing this, but I do have a conflict

1:40:22of interest on this contract.

1:40:24>> Okay. Thanks. And just briefly for the

1:40:26record, were you involved at all in the

1:40:27procurement for this uh this contract?

1:40:30>> No.

1:40:30>> Okay. Thank you. Um then yeah, I will ru

1:40:32rule that you have a substantial uh

1:40:34financial interest. Um and uh I know

1:40:37you'll be stepping out of the room. So

1:40:39in the meantime um uh looking for a

1:40:41motion to approve.

1:40:43>> So moved.

1:40:44>> Second.

1:40:45>> Okay. There's a motion uh to approve

1:40:47this uh item from Miss Baldwin Day.

1:40:49Second by Mr. Bolan. Do you want to

1:40:51speak to it further, Miss Baldwin Day?

1:40:52>> Nothing for me.

1:40:53>> Okay.

1:40:55I don't see anyone else in the queue.

1:40:57>> I'm I'm trying to get in the queue. It's

1:40:59not working.

1:40:59>> Okay. Uh sorry, Mr. McCormack. Go ahead.

1:41:01>> Um I had some questions about the

1:41:02contract. if we had someone I'd be able

1:41:04to answer those

1:41:08for the administration.

1:41:14Um,

1:41:16so in April 2025, the body approved $8

1:41:18million for this project. Um, so I I'd

1:41:23like to hear more of what that 8 million

1:41:26didn't cover that we need the extra

1:41:28700,000 and what what the deliverables

1:41:30for that will be.

1:41:32Thank you. Yeah. And I see um Miss Toe

1:41:34walking up and then I also see Mr.

1:41:35Falsy. So maybe I'll start with Mr.

1:41:36Falsy to respond or Miss Toe, either

1:41:38one.

1:41:39>> Well, I'll let the director speak to it.

1:41:42I think generally I would uh take a look

1:41:44at the $8 million, but I suspect that

1:41:46was an appropriation and this is a

1:41:47procurement. So the $8 million

1:41:49established the bucket of money and this

1:41:51is an expenditure from that fund.

1:41:54>> Okay. How much has been spent? How much

1:41:56is encumbered? What's left? What are we

1:42:04I can give you an accounting for it

1:42:05through the chair um member McCormack,

1:42:08but I don't have it at this time.

1:42:11>> Okay.

1:42:12>> Okay. Um also in the contract, so in

1:42:15April 2025,

1:42:17uh the geocentech update put the the

1:42:20overall plant cost looking at 550

1:42:22million. The May 2026 update from

1:42:25Tetrate Tech put it at 750 million. And

1:42:28now the memo says to be determined.

1:42:33When will we see how much this is going

1:42:35to cost? Like we saw it rising and now

1:42:37it's off the end and we you know when

1:42:40will the the rateayers see what the the

1:42:45debt is going to be and if it's going to

1:42:46be affordable uh for them to utilize. So

1:42:50through the chair member McCormack um

1:42:52the question basically you're asking

1:42:56what

1:42:59sorry I just totally lost what you just

1:43:01said.

1:43:02>> Oh the plan of finance I'm I apologize

1:43:04the plan of finance is coming. So part

1:43:06of the design process that HDR will be

1:43:10looking at is all of the inputs that

1:43:11we've been working on over this last

1:43:13year, which will include inputs such as

1:43:16the waist shed study, how much volume

1:43:18can come in uh to Anchorage, what are

1:43:22the uh contaminated soil volumes and

1:43:25inventory across the state that can

1:43:27potentially be um processed through the

1:43:30soil treatment process, the POS

1:43:32destruction. And then also looking at

1:43:35what are the potential for recycling

1:43:38metals and other inputs such as that.

1:43:42All of those inputs will be part of the

1:43:44plan of finance that is coming in the

1:43:46spring and all of the outreach that

1:43:48we've done over this last six months has

1:43:51said exactly that that all of those

1:43:53inputs will help to inform the plan of

1:43:55finance that you're asking for.

1:43:57>> Okay, perfect. Thank you. and Miss

1:43:59Baldwin Day.

1:44:01>> Sorry, before you begin, I'll also note

1:44:03it looks like our we're dealing with the

1:44:05tech. I'll just visually scan. So, flag

1:44:07me if you want to be in the queue. Go

1:44:08ahead, Miss Baldwin Day.

1:44:09>> Yeah, thank you. Just wanted to to note

1:44:11for um the members awareness that if

1:44:14they would like a more comprehensive

1:44:16overview of where we are in the waste

1:44:19energy process and um some of the

1:44:21timeline questions that are being raised

1:44:22tonight. Uh the um infrastructure

1:44:25enterprise and utility oversight

1:44:26committee of the whole meeting from

1:44:28Thursday August the 20th uh is recorded

1:44:30available on YouTube along with

1:44:31supporting documentation that answers a

1:44:33lot of these questions.

1:44:36>> Thanks. Uh, any other members wish to

1:44:39speak at this time? Okay, I'm not seeing

1:44:42any. Um, uh,

1:44:45one second.

1:44:51Okay. Uh, Mr. McCormack, can you just

1:44:53quickly test um if you can get in the

1:44:55queue or not?

1:44:58>> Okay, looks like Oh, wait. I see

1:45:00somebody.

1:45:01>> I'm in now.

1:45:02>> Okay, cool. Um, yeah, I know you were

1:45:03not intending to speak, but it looks

1:45:05like it is working. So, uh, I should

1:45:06also say a little bit off topic. We are

1:45:09working on the IT issues. Um, and we

1:45:11are, I think, getting close to a

1:45:12solution. So, we don't have a repeat of

1:45:14last month. Um, okay. I don't see any

1:45:16further questions. So, thank you, Miss

1:45:17Toth for being available. Um, and, uh,

1:45:20I'll ask, is there any objection to

1:45:22adoption of this? And again, if it a

1:45:24member can always object and then we

1:45:26would take a roll call vote.

1:45:30Okay. Not seeing any objection uh to

1:45:32adoption. So uh then we will consider

1:45:34this unanimously adopted 11 to0 vote

1:45:36AM6942026.

1:45:39Uh so our next item uh that's been

1:45:41pulled is item 10D22

1:45:45AM6972026

1:45:48change order number two to the contract

1:45:50with Granite Construction Company or

1:45:51Granite for the SDS 001 and SDS 002

1:45:55rehabilitation project number 2205 uh

1:45:58for the Don Young Port of Alaska. This

1:46:00item was pulled by Mr. Handeland.

1:46:03Move to approve.

1:46:05>> Second.

1:46:05>> Second.

1:46:06>> Okay. There's a motion to approve by Mr.

1:46:08Hendeland. Uh second by I think I heard

1:46:10Miss Park. Um Mr. Handle, please

1:46:12proceed.

1:46:12>> Yeah, I just have a couple questions for

1:46:15the port director.

1:46:25Thanks. So, I know you answered uh some

1:46:27of my questions and they're included in

1:46:29the assembly member questions. Um, so I

1:46:32had a question just on the um, looks

1:46:35like originally it was a 70 to30 split

1:46:38uh, for the federal award. Um, we've

1:46:41essentially exceeded the amount uh, for

1:46:43the federal match on that and so there's

1:46:46an extra uh, $2.14 million that's coming

1:46:49out of the um, port uh, storm dtor storm

1:46:53drain capital improvement fund. if with

1:46:56some of those uh missing bid items that

1:46:59were or missing bid amounts that were

1:47:01were included in that that contract,

1:47:03would we have had the um potential to I

1:47:06guess get more of a federal match or go

1:47:09after other grants uh to kind of

1:47:12capitalize on that um that extra $2.14

1:47:16million

1:47:17>> through the chair member Handelan?

1:47:18[clears throat]

1:47:19The answer is yes. Had we known about

1:47:22these quantities um

1:47:25before we asked for the $10 million

1:47:27grant, we would have asked for more. But

1:47:30because we didn't know about these uh

1:47:31the soil issue and the pipe uh size of

1:47:35the pipe issue, um those weren't

1:47:37included, so we didn't ask for it. But I

1:47:38did make that call for our conversation

1:47:40earlier just to verify likely would have

1:47:43had an opportunity to ask for a higher

1:47:45dollar amount in that grant had we

1:47:47known.

1:47:48And I guess there's I'm assuming no way

1:47:50of I guess a asking now after the fact

1:47:53uh through that

1:47:55>> not through that grant program. And

1:47:57certainly we're expecting to get storm

1:47:59drain one or yeah uh one two and five

1:48:03done through this winter. So we're going

1:48:06to probably expire this grant before we

1:48:08would ever be able to apply for another

1:48:10additional funds for this one.

1:48:12>> Okay. And then yeah, I really really do

1:48:14like your guys' response on I mean

1:48:16because I mean uh some of the details

1:48:19provided here. I really appreciate that.

1:48:21I mean the unforeseen uh surface

1:48:23conditions, utility conflicts, those are

1:48:24the kind of things when we're we're

1:48:26dealing with engineering projects we

1:48:28can't always uh foresee. But when we

1:48:30have the the incorrect incorrect bid

1:48:32items and stuff, I mean having that

1:48:34through I mean following proper channels

1:48:36that were uh reviewing those

1:48:38documentations so we don't end in in a

1:48:40situation like that because that is the

1:48:42I mean 1.8 uh million dollars there and

1:48:44it would have been nice to get I guess a

1:48:4670%

1:48:48for the for the federal government to to

1:48:50fund that.

1:48:51>> Yeah. Through the chair member Hanlin.

1:48:52Only comment I would make is we do

1:48:55annually uh thanks to the my predecessor

1:48:58and the administration, we put $2.5

1:49:00million aside for storm drain utility

1:49:03just for these kinds of projects. So

1:49:05this money is accounted for. We look for

1:49:07it every year. We put it away in the

1:49:09bank account just in case something like

1:49:11this comes up. So the preparation that

1:49:13the port and the uh leadership down

1:49:15there have made before my tenure there

1:49:17has kind of shored this up.

1:49:19>> Okay. Thank you so much.

1:49:22Okay, I don't see anyone further in the

1:49:24queue. So, uh with this one, I'll ask is

1:49:27there any objection to adoption of um uh

1:49:30this memorandum

1:49:32AM 697206?

1:49:36Seeing and hearing none, uh then this

1:49:38res or this memorandum has been adopted

1:49:40uh unanimously by the assembly uh minus

1:49:42the the member who is uh or sorry, never

1:49:44mind misspoke. Um okay, next we have

1:49:47item uh 10D23. So, I'll read that into

1:49:50the record. That is a recommendation.

1:49:51This is one of our laid on the table

1:49:52items. Recommendation of award of a

1:49:54contract to HDR Engineering, Inc. to

1:49:56provide professional engineering

1:49:58services for downtown Transit Center

1:50:00project TR00002H

1:50:02for the municipality of Anchorage public

1:50:04uh transportation department. Um so with

1:50:07this one, um I know this is pulled by

1:50:08Mr. Handeland. Um as previously

1:50:10discussed during the laid on the table,

1:50:12uh process, um Mr. Hendeland has a

1:50:15substantial conflict and so uh go ahead

1:50:16and step away. You don't need to

1:50:18additionally disclose. Um, and then

1:50:20because Mr. Hendelan was the one who

1:50:21pulled it, then we'll need someone else

1:50:22to make a motion.

1:50:23>> Move to approve.

1:50:24>> Second.

1:50:24>> Okay. Motion by Mr. Bolan to approve,

1:50:26second by Miss Baldwin Day. Um, Mr.

1:50:28Vaughn, would you like to speak to it

1:50:29further?

1:50:29>> Nothing more for me. Thank you.

1:50:31>> Okay. And, uh, anyone else? I don't see

1:50:34anyone else in the queue.

1:50:37Um, okay. No one else in the queue. So,

1:50:39uh, I'll ask, is there any objection to,

1:50:42um, approval of, uh, this memorandum?

1:50:48Okay. Seeing and hearing none, um then

1:50:50this is adopted and uh we don't have a

1:50:52number for it, but we will make sure

1:50:54that that is retroactively applied in

1:50:56the record. Um so that memorandum

1:50:58regarding the downtown transit center uh

1:51:00contract has been unanimously adopted

1:51:02minus the one recused member. Um so that

1:51:05takes us through our um

1:51:10takes us through the attendees. Uh so we

1:51:12have one more item and that is item 10

1:51:14F2 and so that is AM

1:51:17>> [clears throat]

1:51:17>> uh

1:51:18sorry one second

1:51:21yeah uh sorry there's a a scrier's error

1:51:24on the item it says AM1 179206 that

1:51:28should be AIM so just noting that for

1:51:30the record um so this is AI IM1 1792026

1:51:342026 memorandum report on thirdparty

1:51:37building plan reviews and audit resorts

1:51:39results sorry this item was pulled by

1:51:41Miss Baldwin Day.

1:51:42>> Thank you, chair. Move to accept.

1:51:44>> Second.

1:51:45>> Okay. Motion to accept by Miss Baldwin

1:51:47Day, second by Mr. Boland. Miss Baldwin

1:51:49Day.

1:51:49>> Yeah. Thank you. Um I uh I wanted to be

1:51:53sure that my my colleagues and um and

1:51:55also members of the public uh were keyed

1:51:58into the fact that this particular AIM

1:52:01includes a couple of policy

1:52:02recommendations that I think are really

1:52:04important for us to pay attention to

1:52:05especially as we are trying to uh do

1:52:08everything that we can to streamline uh

1:52:10housing production and what's going on

1:52:12in our building services department. uh

1:52:15this AIM recommends that the sunset for

1:52:18third-party plan reviews is be uh

1:52:21removed entirely and so uh just wanted

1:52:25to note that that does require an a

1:52:28follow-on ordinance follow-on action by

1:52:29this body uh which I am very interested

1:52:32in carrying and wanted u wanted my

1:52:35colleagues to be aware that that is

1:52:37forthcoming um that we are uh if we do

1:52:39want to continue to have thirdparty plan

1:52:41review in place uh in this format we

1:52:44will need to take action together to do

1:52:46that. So, um I urge my colleagues to

1:52:49accept this report and look forward to

1:52:52um doing the recommended policy work in

1:52:55here. Thank you.

1:52:58>> Thank you. Any further discussion for

1:52:59members?

1:53:03Okay. Any objection to acceptance of

1:53:05this report?

1:53:08Okay. Okay, seeing and hearing none, um

1:53:10then AIM 179206 has been unanimously

1:53:13accepted. That takes us through our uh

1:53:16consent agenda and one second.

1:53:20Madam chair, I move to change the order

1:53:23of the day

1:53:26and take up all the items in the 14

1:53:32section.

1:53:34Ne and 15.

1:53:37So 14

1:53:39A through 15A to take those up first

1:53:45and then resume the normal order.

1:53:51So those items would go before um

1:53:54the 11s and the item in in the 13.

1:54:04>> It's okay. Um, so the clerk

1:54:05>> has it up on the board. Um, uh, so

1:54:08motion by Mr. Bullen to change the order

1:54:10of the day as stated essentially to take

1:54:11up all of the new public hearing items

1:54:13of the 14s 15A and then to roll back on

1:54:15the agenda to, uh, 11A and the rest of

1:54:18the agenda and that's second by Miss

1:54:19Baldwin Day. Do you want to speak to it

1:54:20for Mr. Bald?

1:54:21>> Yes, thank you. So um, what that will do

1:54:24is allow us to have our first public

1:54:27hearing um, on the budget items and we

1:54:32are mandated to do that. um as we

1:54:35approach the uh the budget season and

1:54:38and passing the budget, we have to have

1:54:41um at least two public hearings for

1:54:42these items. So, there's a little bit of

1:54:45a time-sensitive nature there. Um,

1:54:49additionally, there are

1:54:52um

1:54:54some other time-sensitive issues in in

1:54:56the the 14s. Um and then I also wanted

1:54:59to highlight 14K and L. We should be

1:55:01able to move on from those. um pretty

1:55:04quickly because the intent of sponsors

1:55:07which is myself and Chair Broly um is to

1:55:11continue that public hearing uh to the

1:55:13first meeting in December. So I think we

1:55:15can get through these uh pretty

1:55:17expediently and then um take up the the

1:55:21items that may um have a little more

1:55:24robust uh debate and conversation. Thank

1:55:26you.

1:55:27>> And next I have in the queue, Mr.

1:55:29Handeland.

1:55:30>> Yeah, just a quick question. So 11B is

1:55:32that would would that be after this

1:55:35item? That seems to be missing on this.

1:55:39>> Yeah, I can clarify. So um so

1:55:41essentially the the screen is

1:55:43documenting what would change. And so

1:55:44the idea is if we go back to 11A, then

1:55:46we would move through there's only three

1:55:48items on the agenda after that, but we

1:55:50would do 11 A, 11 B, and then 13A.

1:55:52>> Okay. Thank you.

1:55:55>> Okay. Any other discussion on this?

1:56:01Not seeing any. I mean, I will note um

1:56:02just for the public's awareness as well,

1:56:04there is a long list of these new

1:56:05hearing items. As Mr. Volen said, the

1:56:07priority really is our budget items. And

1:56:09um we have reason to believe that that

1:56:11the rest of these can move more quickly

1:56:13than it might imply on the page. And so

1:56:15that's the idea. Um and of course we can

1:56:17if we if we are dragging in one place or

1:56:20another, we can change the order of the

1:56:21day again. So um okay, any uh I guess

1:56:23I'll ask is there any objection to

1:56:25changing the order of the day as stated?

1:56:29Yeah.

1:56:32And I will note we're not sure who's on

1:56:33the phone, but it might be a staff

1:56:34person. Um, not one of the members. So,

1:56:36okay. I'm not hearing any objection to

1:56:38changing the order of the day. Um, so,

1:56:40thanks everyone for your flexibility

1:56:42there. And then I will note, um, that

1:56:43takes us to the end of our consent

1:56:45agenda. Um, so that gives some clear

1:56:47expectations for the public how we'll

1:56:49proceed after dinner. And then I will

1:56:51ask just briefly, are there any students

1:56:53in the audience this evening who are not

1:56:55our youth representative?

1:56:59Okay, I don't see any right now. Um, so

1:57:01we always want to check make sure that

1:57:02they're recognized if they're here. So

1:57:04with that, we will take our dinner break

1:57:05and we'll be back back in about 20

1:57:07minutes. Thank you.

1:57:12[music]

1:57:16[music]

1:57:22[music]

1:57:24Give me your mind.

1:57:29Give me

1:57:31[music]

1:57:34your mind.

1:57:38Give me

1:57:41all the sun's leaving. Give me your

1:57:44light. Give me your light. Another

1:57:46summer coming.

1:57:49[music]

1:57:51Oh, sun leaving. Keep me around. Keep me

1:57:55alive. No sunlight on my darkest times.

1:58:01Sun's leaving.

1:58:05What if I close my eyes

1:58:09at all?

1:58:11Sun's leaving.

1:58:15Another summer coming down.

1:58:20Do they ever think, "Why aren't you

1:58:22[music] tired of me?

1:58:27Why aren't you tired of me? [music]

1:58:32Why aren't you tired of [singing] me?

1:58:37Why don't you

1:58:49havehere

1:58:52to go? [singing]

1:58:54Don't let them take your shine. Don't

1:58:57let them steal your mind away.

1:59:00[singing]

1:59:02said, "If they owed you money, I will

1:59:05need a

1:59:11you're stronger than you think. Don't

1:59:13let these stones

1:59:26in nobody else at fault."

1:59:30think I did something bad.

1:59:44>> Okay, everyone. I'm going to call this

1:59:46back to order.

1:59:49>> Welcome back everyone. So, uh, we are,

1:59:51and as a reminder for folks who are

1:59:53tracking, we did reorder the agenda so

1:59:55that we are going to be taking up

1:59:56starting with 14A, moving through the

1:59:58rest of those 14s and into 15, and then

2:00:00we will roll back up to deal with, uh,

2:00:02the 11s and the one item in the 13. Um,

2:00:05before we do that, just a couple quick

2:00:06items of business. I understand there is

2:00:08a student here this evening, and so, um,

2:00:10before before we get too far into it, I

2:00:13will ask, um, if that student would

2:00:14please come forward. Um, and then all

2:00:16you have to do is share your name, what

2:00:18school you're in, what grade you're in,

2:00:20and um what class or what project you're

2:00:22here for. So,

2:00:30uh, yeah, one second. So, if you turn

2:00:32the there's a button on the bottom

2:00:33there. So, uh, press that and then the

2:00:34microphone will the light will turn

2:00:36green. That means it's on. Okay. And

2:00:37then please, uh, say your name and and,

2:00:39uh, what school you're from.

2:00:41>> Um, I'm Natalie and I go to the AK

2:00:42homeschool program. I'm in Wait, what

2:00:45were the question? I'm in 10th grade and

2:00:46I'm doing this for my government class.

2:00:49>> Okay. Well, welcome. Thank you. Thanks

2:00:52for being here.

2:00:54>> Oh, yeah. You Yeah, thank you for

2:00:55turning it off. Okay. Thank you. Um, so

2:00:57that is our and you get the prize for

2:00:59being the only student here this evening

2:01:01other than our student representative

2:01:02who is here by choice. So, [laughter]

2:01:05okay. Uh, one other quick item of

2:01:07business. There's a late on the table

2:01:08item. It is supplemental to item 11B.

2:01:10So, I'm just going to read it into the

2:01:11record, then we'll move into our

2:01:13hearings. Um, so this is a uh regarding

2:01:15AO 2026S 108 S1 uh the or uh

2:01:19surveillance tech tech ordinance and it

2:01:21is a letter from Rabbit Creek Community

2:01:23Council um submitted again as

2:01:25supplemental unnumbered AIM uh and it

2:01:27will be numbered uh after the fact. So,

2:01:29that is our supplemental item. So, next

2:01:32let's roll up to our um public hearing

2:01:35items tonight. So, starting with item

2:01:3714A and then as a reminder, um I will be

2:01:40opening and then closing each of these

2:01:42hearings, but the second hearing for 14A

2:01:44through 14H is already on the agenda for

2:01:47November 4th. And I see folks lining up

2:01:49to testify. So, uh we are first on 14A,

2:01:53ordinance AO 2026123,

2:01:56an ordinance of the municipality of

2:01:58Anchorage adopting and appropriating

2:01:59funds for the 2027 general government

2:02:01operating budget for the municipality of

2:02:03Anchorage. Um public hearing on this

2:02:05item is now open. Uh first person uh

2:02:08please state your name, part of town.

2:02:09You'll have three minutes.

2:02:11>> Good evening chair and members of the

2:02:12assembly. My name is Radica Krishna. I'm

2:02:14the executive director of the Anchorage

2:02:16Downtown Partnership. The Downtown

2:02:18Partnership is a nonprofit organization

2:02:20that represents more than 800 business

2:02:22and property owners within downtown

2:02:24Anchorage and public safety is the top

2:02:27priority of our board and our members.

2:02:29I'm here to testify tonight in support

2:02:31of continuing the downtown foot patrols

2:02:33which started this year uh into 2027 and

2:02:36permanently beyond that. The foot patrol

2:02:39began this last April as a pilot project

2:02:42which was funded by the tips program

2:02:44which was part of the bed tax

2:02:46and those funds are uh there's only a

2:02:50small portion remaining and they're due

2:02:52to be spent down very soon. In just its

2:02:55first six weeks, officers made over

2:02:561,800 contacts. That's over 40 per day.

2:03:00More than a thousand of those contacts

2:03:02ended in voluntary compliance. 152

2:03:05people were transported to care such as

2:03:07the Anchorage Safety Patrol. 40 people

2:03:09were connected to services. And again,

2:03:11those impacts are just from the first

2:03:13six weeks from April and May of this

2:03:15year. This year, the foot patrol was

2:03:16structured as a voluntary overtime

2:03:18patrol, which meant that some shifts

2:03:20went unfilled. When the foot patrol was

2:03:22happening consistently, business owners

2:03:25absolutely saw a difference. A fully

2:03:27staffed patrol that operates year round

2:03:29would do even more to improve public

2:03:31safety downtown and that's what we'd

2:03:33like to see. 2027 will be a big year

2:03:36downtown. Townscore Park and Parachvich

2:03:38Park were closed for construction this

2:03:40year, but they'll reopen next year. Um,

2:03:43as will the new downtown library branch

2:03:45and the Ship Creek to Coastal Trail

2:03:47connection. Uh there are also municipal

2:03:50investments in wayfinding in facilities

2:03:52like the Anchorage Center for the

2:03:54Performing Arts and we want residents to

2:03:56be able to access all of those safely

2:03:58and comfortably. Anchorage also hosts

2:04:001.3 million visitors each year, many of

2:04:03whom most of whom come to downtown. We

2:04:06want those visitors to experience a

2:04:07comfortable environment so they stay

2:04:09longer and support our small businesses

2:04:11and restaurants. I also want to note and

2:04:14thank you because the foot patrol has

2:04:16been so effective because of the recent

2:04:18policy changes that this assembly has

2:04:20enacted from things like title 8 changes

2:04:22to recent changes um around camping. We

2:04:26have more resources today than we did 5

2:04:28years ago from year- round shelter uh

2:04:32expanded services at ASP and then I know

2:04:34we're all looking forward to new crisis

2:04:36care stabilization that will open this

2:04:38year. The foot patrol is a really key

2:04:41part of connecting all these pieces on

2:04:43the ground. Um, making sure that the

2:04:46policy changes you've enacted are

2:04:48enforced and that individuals are

2:04:50connected to those services.

2:04:52In closing, I'll just say that the foot

2:04:54patrol has been really effective in

2:04:55improving downtown public safety and

2:04:58we're asking for it to continue in 2027,

2:05:01be made a permanent program and ensure

2:05:04that um every day it takes place and

2:05:08continues year round. So, we all want to

2:05:10see a safe and vibrant downtown and this

2:05:12is an essential part of creating that.

2:05:14Thank you.

2:05:16>> Thank you. I don't see anyone in the

2:05:18queue. Uh next person, please come

2:05:19forward.

2:05:23And uh you'll need sorry one second uh

2:05:25I'll also note we accidentally forgot to

2:05:27start the timer uh for a few seconds on

2:05:29the last person but thank you for being

2:05:31timely. Next um if you press the button

2:05:33on the bottom the microphone on uh state

2:05:34your name part of town you'll have three

2:05:36minutes.

2:05:36>> Yes. Hello. Good evening. Uh my name is

2:05:38Kathleen Mardle. I'm the president and

2:05:40CEO at the Anchorage Chamber of

2:05:41Commerce. I'm a resident of West

2:05:43Anchorage um in the Turnigan

2:05:44neighborhood. I'm here representing the

2:05:46Anchorage Chamber. is a nonprofit

2:05:48business membership association serving

2:05:50Anchorage since 1915, Alaska's largest

2:05:54um coalition of business owners and

2:05:55their employees um across a

2:05:57municipality. I'm here to also support

2:06:00the continued investment and commitment

2:06:02to downtown Anchorage Foot Patrol as

2:06:05support for business and community

2:06:07safety that impacts all of the

2:06:09municipality. Our members have

2:06:12consistently cited public safety as a

2:06:14concern in our feedback surveys with

2:06:16downtown at the epicenter and this

2:06:19year's pilot foot patrol delivered both

2:06:21quantitative and qualitative results. As

2:06:23you've heard, the thousands of contacts,

2:06:26those resolutions, and connections to

2:06:28supportive services helped to stem the

2:06:30tide of larger issues that Anchorage

2:06:33faces for the state of Alaska. APD

2:06:37absolutely goes above and beyond to

2:06:39support the community. I think it is

2:06:42fair to say that incident response times

2:06:44aren't where we'd like them to be yet.

2:06:46When public safety isn't available, it's

2:06:49our local businesses who must then

2:06:50invest in private security, hardening

2:06:53their infrastructure, surveillance

2:06:56equipment and services, and even

2:06:57relocating their services and amenities

2:07:00if they feel they must, which ultimately

2:07:02is not sustainable. A safe downtown is

2:07:05essential to economic growth and

2:07:07stability everywhere. A visible,

2:07:09consistent police presence downtown

2:07:11keeps downtown safe, welcoming, and

2:07:14vibrant for residents, visitors, and

2:07:17people just trying to do their jobs. The

2:07:19APD foot patrol has shown real results

2:07:21during the pilot. Um, please fund APD as

2:07:25much as we need it to be. Um, and this

2:07:27program, making it permanent, ensuring

2:07:30coverage for every shift.

2:07:32We'll continue to do um as nonprofit

2:07:35organizations what we can to support

2:07:37positive activations in public spaces.

2:07:40Thank you so much for your time and all

2:07:41your service to our community.

2:07:44>> Thank you. Uh next person, please come

2:07:46forward. Uh microphone needs to be

2:07:49turned back on and then uh state your

2:07:51name and part of town. You'll have three

2:07:52minutes.

2:07:54>> Good evening chair and assembly members.

2:07:56My name is Sheri Gold. I'm the

2:07:58facilities services and building manager

2:07:59for Santos, Alaska. Santos has around

2:08:02230 people that work in our downtown

2:08:05office on Fifth Avenue and all of whom

2:08:07live in the Anchorage area. I'm here

2:08:09today to ask you to consider adding

2:08:11funding for the APD downtown foot patrol

2:08:13in the 2027 budget and beyond. As you've

2:08:16heard and as you know, 2026 was the

2:08:18pilot year. Um, but the funding is due

2:08:20to expire. We would like to see the foot

2:08:22patrol continue next year and in the

2:08:24future years and ideally grow in scale.

2:08:27We moved to our downtown office in 2024

2:08:30and we generally love being downtown.

2:08:32Our employees enjoy the walkability,

2:08:34access to restaurants and shops and

2:08:36being in the center of the Anchorage

2:08:38community arts and culture and all the

2:08:41wonderful events. However, public safety

2:08:45has been the top question and concern of

2:08:47our employees, and we have had a few

2:08:49very worrying events over the couple of

2:08:51years since we've been downtown. We've

2:08:54spent a lot of time talking with APD

2:08:56over the last two years, and we're

2:08:57grateful for the time they've taken to

2:08:59talk to us and our employees

2:09:02and also the safety resources available.

2:09:04Since the foot patrol began in April, we

2:09:07have seen it make a big difference in

2:09:08the safety and comfort of our employees

2:09:10as we walk through downtown and to and

2:09:12from our office. Our office is located

2:09:14across the street from Town Square Park

2:09:16and the Performing Arts Center. Directly

2:09:18to the east of our building is the Egan

2:09:20Center, Patravich Park, the Log Cabin

2:09:22Visitors Center, and the new downtown

2:09:24library, which is being constructed now.

2:09:26We're looking forward to all of these

2:09:28new um improvements, but that starts

2:09:31with public safety. So, the APD foot

2:09:34patrol has really worked in improving

2:09:35safety for our employees downtown and we

2:09:38don't want to see it end this year.

2:09:40Please fund this program, make it

2:09:41permanent, and ensure coverage for every

2:09:43shift. Thank you for your time and the

2:09:45opportunity to testify.

2:09:47>> Um, thank you. Before you step away, u,

2:09:49Mr. McCormack in the queue for you.

2:09:51>> I had a question for you. Um, thank you.

2:09:53Is, uh, representing one of the largest

2:09:55employers in Anchorage, it sounds like

2:09:57concerns about, um, safety for your

2:09:59employees. Has Santos had to hire like

2:10:02private security to help secure its um

2:10:05property and and personnel?

2:10:08>> Yes, we have.

2:10:08>> Okay. And it sound I I think I saw

2:10:10earlier uh mentions of having to offer

2:10:14that security to transport people to and

2:10:16from their vehicles um to to keep their

2:10:19safety uh while just walking to to the

2:10:22building.

2:10:22>> That is correct.

2:10:23>> Okay. And so by establishing or uh

2:10:26continuing the foot patrols believing

2:10:28that that would create a safer

2:10:30environment uh for your employees and

2:10:32walking to and from the building and uh

2:10:34going out for lunch and other daily

2:10:36activities.

2:10:36>> Yes.

2:10:37>> All right. Thank you.

2:10:38>> Thank you.

2:10:40>> Okay. I don't see anyone else in the

2:10:41queue. Thank you for being here. Next

2:10:44person, please come forward. State your

2:10:45name. Part of town. You'll have three

2:10:46minutes and the microphone needs to be

2:10:47turned off.

2:10:52>> Sorry. Uh before you proceed, um you'll

2:10:54need to turn the microphone on. Uh oh,

2:10:56it's okay. Yeah, thank you. Go ahead.

2:10:57How about now?

2:10:57>> Yeah, please start again.

2:10:58>> Thank you, Madam Chair, madam members of

2:11:00the assembly. My name is John Bitner.

2:11:01I'm with Anchorage Economic Development

2:11:02Corporation. I bet you can guess why I'm

2:11:04here today. I also am here to encourage

2:11:07you to fully support public uh public

2:11:09safety funding in this budget. We do a

2:11:12lot of economic studies at ADC asking

2:11:14about barriers to business, asking about

2:11:16what's uh top of mind for uh businesses

2:11:19across the town. And number one in the

2:11:22past few years has been public safety.

2:11:24We really are making a lot of progress

2:11:25on this front, but we need to continue

2:11:26that momentum in order to continue

2:11:28economic growth. Uh as we produce the uh

2:11:32community economic development strategy

2:11:33for the city that we've been working on

2:11:34for the last several months. We do a lot

2:11:36of community outreach as well. It's not

2:11:39just a business community concern. It's

2:11:40also a concern amongst uh regular

2:11:42community members, nonprofits, and

2:11:44others. Uh making sure we have a safe uh

2:11:46vibrant community to operate in is going

2:11:48to benefit all of us. I also

2:11:51wholeheartedly support the downtown foot

2:11:52patrol. I I work in the downtown area

2:11:54and I I believe it is a phenomenal

2:11:56program and a great use of resources. I

2:11:58hope that we can fund the public safety

2:12:00budget to the point where that's a

2:12:01viable option in the next year and going

2:12:04forward. Um I'd also like to just

2:12:06recognize the great work that you've

2:12:07already done on this front. We are

2:12:09making progress uh when it comes to

2:12:10public safety. I'm not here to to claim

2:12:12otherwise. I really do think that the me

2:12:14the momentum is going in the right

2:12:16direction and I hope we keep that going

2:12:17through this budget and through next

2:12:19year as well. Thank you very much.

2:12:23>> All right, no questions. Um, thank you.

2:12:26Next person, uh, please come forward.

2:12:27Oh, sorry. Uh,

2:12:30uh, sorry, Mr. Britner, if you can come

2:12:31back. Um, Miss Park is in the queue.

2:12:32Actually,

2:12:33>> actually, the question isn't for Mr.

2:12:35Bitner. I I wanted to ask Mr. falsy

2:12:38whether the downtown foot patrols uh are

2:12:41included in the overtime for APD that we

2:12:44see in the budget.

2:12:46>> Yeah. Thanks. So, so I want to hold us

2:12:48to So, we're in the middle of a public

2:12:49hearing, so this is not a time to really

2:12:51ask questions, but I would encourage you

2:12:52to ask offline. I think it's valid

2:12:53question. Thank you.

2:12:55>> Um sorry, so next person, please come

2:12:56forward. Um yeah, you can turn the

2:12:58microphone on, state your name, part of

2:12:59town, and you'll have three minutes.

2:13:00>> Hi, I'm Mari Mahana, District 5, and I

2:13:03want to make some comments over this

2:13:05year's budget. Um, first thing, we don't

2:13:07have to go over a fiscal cliff. We don't

2:13:09spend more than we take in. Um, there

2:13:12are several and we need to get over the

2:13:14idea that small cuts are not worth it.

2:13:17Lots of small cuts add up big. Um some

2:13:21uh ideas I had was um first of all an

2:13:25easy cut that lots of corporations have

2:13:27made is to cut travel budgets in this

2:13:30day and age of Zoom and and uh uh uh

2:13:36streaming. There is no reason for people

2:13:38to have to go out of state except for if

2:13:40they have to physically train uh in in

2:13:44something that they can't do here like

2:13:46the police and the and the firefighters.

2:13:49Um, another another one um I would like

2:13:52to see is the assembly members

2:13:54discretionary funds cut. There should be

2:13:57no discretionary funds that aren't

2:14:00accounted accounted to taxpayers.

2:14:04Um, and I suggest you keep all services

2:14:08at current levels. Just do a freeze for

2:14:11a year. Um, I understood that we saved a

2:14:15lot of money this year by not funding um

2:14:18a bunch of of uh positions that were not

2:14:24not filled. That that should have been

2:14:26done a long time ago. I think there

2:14:28should be an audit of all administrative

2:14:30positions and compare it to other cities

2:14:33of our size to make sure we are not

2:14:36having we don't have more employees than

2:14:39we actually need.

2:14:41There's also another way to help going

2:14:44over a fiscal cliff is to um explore new

2:14:49avenues for funds. Instead of pushing

2:14:51for sales tax or other taxes that

2:14:55literally take food out of people's

2:14:56mouths, we should make use of those 1.3

2:15:00or I'm sorry, 3.1 million visitors.

2:15:05Number one, we could increase the room

2:15:07tax. Anchorage's room tax is 12%. and

2:15:10there's for that's for 30 days or less.

2:15:13Other places like Maui has 18% and

2:15:17that's for 180 days or less. Aahu is

2:15:2119%. Steamboat Springs, Colorado is 18

2:15:25to 20%. Portland is six, [clears throat]

2:15:28excuse me, is 16%. So, I think that

2:15:31would be an easy way to generate funds

2:15:34from our visitors.

2:15:36Um and then uh other cities uh we could

2:15:41also increase our uh taxes on um on uh

2:15:49marijuana. Anchorage's marijuana tax is

2:15:515%. Colorado's marijuana marijuana tax

2:15:55is 30% and Washington's marijuana tax is

2:15:5837%.

2:16:00That goes up to 53 with sales tax. Thank

2:16:04you very much.

2:16:05Thank you. Don't see anyone in the

2:16:08queue. Uh, next person, please come

2:16:09forward. State your name, part of town.

2:16:12You'll have three minutes. And, uh, the

2:16:14microphone needs to be turned on.

2:16:18>> My name is Charles McKe. I'm the

2:16:20beneficiary of the McKe Trust. And I

2:16:23want to point out to you that

2:16:28business that you're referring to that

2:16:30you're conducting is also referred to as

2:16:32commerce. and all mistakes and commas

2:16:35could be rectified

2:16:39in commerce and that's what we're

2:16:42talking about.

2:16:44So um I took it upon myself to have my

2:16:49birth certificate authenticated

2:16:52triplicate.

2:16:54So I have um beyond parody with a court

2:16:59system and I have a bunch of this

2:17:02material with you. I'll leave a copy of

2:17:05each. There's two. And and what I want

2:17:08to talk to you about is the

2:17:15the problem of

2:17:20the trust being the attempt, but

2:17:25everybody has a trust of value of $900

2:17:28billion. So what the court's been doing

2:17:30is involuntary trust transaction.

2:17:34>> Point of order.

2:17:36>> Yeah. Uh, can we pause the time, please?

2:17:39U, sorry, who did the point?

2:17:43>> This testimony doesn't seem to related

2:17:45to the budget.

2:17:45>> Well, it is. I'll get to it, but it's

2:17:48related to it because what I'm trying to

2:17:50do is convey.

2:17:51>> Please just pause for a second, Mr.

2:17:52McKe. Um, so, um, we do generally give

2:17:55broad latitude to the public, but I will

2:17:57remind you, Mr. Makita, to please,

2:17:59please make sure that this connects to

2:18:01the budget

2:18:01>> very. Yeah. Yeah. What I what I want to

2:18:03tra try to convey to the assembly is my

2:18:07my trust is $900 billion and the

2:18:11documents is showing that my intent is

2:18:13to help u mitigate the shortfall that is

2:18:17coming as has been pronounced next year.

2:18:21So, um, and I have this, uh, recording

2:18:25district 301, Anchorage, uh, 2026-

2:18:30036187-

2:18:330 recorded, and I'll give you a copy of

2:18:37that. But what I'm trying to bring up is

2:18:39the fact that rather than having an

2:18:41involuntary uh trajection with a

2:18:45trust or constructive trust that I able

2:18:49to access that and mitigate harm done to

2:18:53me and others previously in court

2:18:57control. So uh this uh activity is being

2:19:02exposed of the transaction that they do

2:19:07to people when they get incarcerated.

2:19:09It's an involuntary trust taking of the

2:19:13$900 billion amount per individual. I

2:19:17happen to have one recorded but in the

2:19:20attempt in this paperwork of doing that

2:19:22to me in 2019.

2:19:26So, I was jailed for 12 hours and uh I

2:19:29beat the wrap and that paperwork's in

2:19:33part included in this I'll give you all

2:19:36a copy of. So, to mitigate the problem,

2:19:40please read it.

2:19:45>> Thank you.

2:19:47Next person, please come forward.

2:19:49Microphone is already on, so state your

2:19:51name, part of town. You'll have three

2:19:53minutes.

2:19:54>> Okay. Uh Jamie Lopez's Anchorage. Um

2:19:58this will probably be a hot mess. I'm

2:19:59not prepared. So anyways, uh just giving

2:20:01this a brief overview and I will say I

2:20:04am concerned. Um there is going to be a

2:20:07title wave of people experiencing

2:20:10homelessness in the next few years. And

2:20:12you cannot police your way out of

2:20:13poverty. Uh but apparently you think you

2:20:15can. And so running people into the

2:20:17ground is no strategy to win. uh because

2:20:20you'll not have enough jails and jail

2:20:22sales to house all the people that will

2:20:24soon be uh unemployed. Whether it's for

2:20:26the rising natural gas costs that

2:20:29effectively, you know, you're going to

2:20:30have two electric competing uh

2:20:32withinstar natural gas and what's going

2:20:35to happen is they have commitments for

2:20:37commodities obviously until 2028, but at

2:20:39that point in time it's going to

2:20:40continue to go up and then also with the

2:20:43AI situation with any number of

2:20:44industries being displaced.

2:20:46Anyways, uh there is money for police,

2:20:48there is not money to help people.

2:20:50Ma'am, uh Miss Lef France, you really

2:20:52need to change the strategy. And I hope

2:20:54you gleaned something from this. So, if

2:20:56you look at the overtime actuals to

2:20:58date, pretty much it's uh over 9

2:21:02million, excuse me, 9.1 million, 164,

2:21:06you know, thousand at this point in time

2:21:08approximately. And uh it's continuing to

2:21:11increase. And there are some officers

2:21:13last year that made $357,000 a year.

2:21:15Christopher, right? Uh most of them

2:21:17started $100,000 and they continue to go

2:21:19up and sergeants and same. It's uh

2:21:21ridiculous. Uh then you look at the

2:21:24travel expenses and some of the concerns

2:21:26that the previous speaker had. I do have

2:21:28concerns about that. And so you look at,

2:21:31you know, the police um basically

2:21:34183,000 that was budgeted, 125,000 to

2:21:37date spent. Well, I brought this up at a

2:21:40previous meeting and so you had the

2:21:42deputy chief of police, Brian Wilson,

2:21:44and he went to basically Oraconnect VIP

2:21:47summit 2026. This was a panel

2:21:49Scottsdale, Arizona uh tea time on the

2:21:51golf, you know, and you had a Super Bowl

2:21:53party. Uh and so did the MUN pay for

2:21:56this uh or did the company pay for this?

2:21:59Because clearly this looks like a really

2:22:01posh place to go. Uh, and I have

2:22:03concerns obviously about something like

2:22:05that, especially when you're selling

2:22:07out, you know, your constituents

2:22:08wholesale for their product. Uh, and

2:22:10then you get to the last thing. Um, and

2:22:12I don't know if I have enough time to

2:22:14cover other things, but I was looking at

2:22:16basically, uh, the most recent budget

2:22:18taxuals. And so it talked about the a

2:22:20tax fund and it said police hope

2:22:22multi-disiplinary outreach team third a

2:22:25resource navigation center 500,000

2:22:27approved budget and it says 500,000

2:22:30total budget and five thou 500,000

2:22:32expenditures. Uh the hope team basically

2:22:34goes to beans cafe they do a zoom call

2:22:37every day. What the heck do you need

2:22:39$500,000 for a third navigation center?

2:22:42Is it to rent a room? Uh I am very

2:22:44curious to find what that is for. Um

2:22:46because why would you need to spend

2:22:49money there? The meaning owns the

2:22:50facility. Catholic social services is

2:22:51running it and what exactly is being

2:22:53done with that 500,000 because clearly

2:22:55you have two people working on the hope

2:22:57team and the rest are you know other

2:22:59providers. So curious. Thank you.

2:23:02>> Okay. Would anyone else wish to testify?

2:23:04Please come forward. Anyone at all?

2:23:07Seeing hearing no one um the first

2:23:09public hearing on AO 2026123

2:23:12is closed. And as again a reminder to

2:23:15members, we do not need to take further

2:23:17action to postpone these items because

2:23:18they're already scheduled for public

2:23:20hearing. So you won't hear us do uh

2:23:21continuing or postponing the way that we

2:23:23have before on other items. So next

2:23:25we'll move on to 14B, ordinance AO

2:23:272026124,

2:23:29an ordinance adopting the 2027 general

2:23:31government capital improvement budget.

2:23:33Public hearing on this item is now open.

2:23:35Please come forward if you wish to

2:23:36testify.

2:23:42And same deal. Microphone's already on.

2:23:44State

2:23:44>> liberty for the chair for a second.

2:23:51>> Okay. Sorry. You're going to need to

2:23:53Yeah, you need to give it to the clerk

2:23:54staff. So, I think she stepped away for

2:23:55the moment. If you just leave it there

2:23:56on the dis. Um Yeah.

2:24:00Yeah. If you Yeah, we'll have staff take

2:24:02care of it. Thank you. Okay. Thank you.

2:24:05Yeah. Staff will distribute that. Okay.

2:24:06Uh so, now back to testimony. Um so

2:24:08state your name, part of town. You'll

2:24:10have three minutes.

2:24:11>> Okay. So Jamie Lopez Sage. So um just

2:24:15did a scan of this. And so obviously

2:24:16there was uh originally in the original

2:24:18proposal last year there was 2.5 million

2:24:20to renovate uh the 11 locker rooms and

2:24:23the police toilets uh over at Tutor

2:24:25Elmore at APD. And so I saw that and I'm

2:24:28thinking people outside don't even have

2:24:30toilets. You had the mayor who suggested

2:24:32the Portland lose uh for you know the

2:24:34general public and but there's 2.5

2:24:38million for toilets and so last year

2:24:39that got cut and then they tried it

2:24:41again and it got cut and it's they're

2:24:42again on the bond sheet for last year.

2:24:45So, uh, in the spirit, you know, of

2:24:48Liberty and for your consideration, I

2:24:50proposed, uh, APD Studios, VFX and

2:24:53claimation, uh, we animate crimes. You

2:24:55don't have to commit them. And so, more

2:24:57or less, uh, the Anchorage Police

2:24:59Department seeks approval and funding to

2:25:00acquire property to house a new division

2:25:03to ask for VFX and claimation. AP

2:25:05Studios will deliver high-quality

2:25:06content with return on investment. Uh,

2:25:08growth prospects include building trust

2:25:10and relationships in the community via

2:25:12purity, satire, and real stories. all

2:25:14brutality simulated. So, uh, anyways,

2:25:16this one's just a shot of humor, but um,

2:25:20you know, this is a budget. You spend

2:25:21your time on it. Sometimes you have to

2:25:23have a joke, but anyways, talk to you

2:25:25later.

2:25:27Okay, thanks for your testimony. Um,

2:25:29would anyone else wish to testify on the

2:25:30capital budget? Please come forward.

2:25:34Anyone at all? Seeing hearing no one,

2:25:36public hearing on this item is now

2:25:38closed. Um and we will move on to our

2:25:41next item and that is AR2026274

2:25:45a resolution adopting the 2027 to 2020

2:25:4820 sorry 2032 general government capital

2:25:51improvement program. Uh public hearing

2:25:53on this item is now open. Please come

2:25:54forward if you wish to testify. Anyone

2:25:57at all

2:26:00seeing and hearing no one the first

2:26:01public hearing on this item is now

2:26:03closed. Next, we'll move on to item 14D,

2:26:07resolution AR2026275,

2:26:09a resolution adopting the 2027 to 2032

2:26:12six-year fiscal program. Public hearing

2:26:14on this item is now open. Please come

2:26:16forward if you wish to testify.

2:26:20Anyone at all

2:26:22seeing and hearing no one, public

2:26:24hearing on this item is now closed. Then

2:26:26we'll move on to our next item. That is

2:26:28item 14E, AO2026125,

2:26:31an ordinance adopting and appropriating

2:26:33funds for the 2027 municipal utilities

2:26:35and enterprise activities operating

2:26:37budgets and the 2027 municipal utilities

2:26:40and enterprise activities capital

2:26:42improvement budgets. Public hearing on

2:26:43this item is now open. Please come

2:26:45forward if you wish to testify.

2:26:47Anyone at all?

2:26:50Seeing and hearing no one, the first

2:26:52public hearing on this item is now

2:26:53closed.

2:26:55Next, we will move on to item 14F,

2:26:58resolution AR2026276,

2:27:01a resolution approving the 2027 to 2032

2:27:04municipal utilities and enterprise

2:27:05activities capital improvement programs.

2:27:08Public hearing on this item is now open.

2:27:10Please come forward if you wish to

2:27:11testify.

2:27:13Anyone at all?

2:27:16Seeing and hearing no one, the first

2:27:18public hearing on this item is now

2:27:19closed. We'll move on to item 14G,

2:27:23ordinance AO2026126,

2:27:25an ordinance adopting and appropriating

2:27:27funds for the 2027 operating and capital

2:27:29budgets of Anchorage Community

2:27:31Development Authority. Public hearing on

2:27:33this item is now open. Please come

2:27:35forward if you wish to testify.

2:27:38Anyone at all?

2:27:40Seeing and hearing no one, public

2:27:42hearing, our first public hearing on

2:27:43this item is now closed. Uh next we'll

2:27:46move on to our last budget item uh of

2:27:48the evening and that is AO2026127

2:27:51an ordinance amending Anchorage

2:27:53Municipal Code Chapters 1.35 3.20 and

2:27:56330 relating to the organization of the

2:27:59executive branch setting forth the

2:28:00duties and responsibilities of executive

2:28:02branch agencies amending related

2:28:04Anchorage Municipal Code to reflect the

2:28:06new executive management structure.

2:28:08Public hearing on this item is now open.

2:28:09Please come forward if you wish to

2:28:11testify.

2:28:13Anyone at all?

2:28:15Seeing hearing no one public uh first

2:28:17public hearing on this item is now

2:28:19closed. That concludes our uh budget

2:28:21items items 14A through 14H. So we will

2:28:25move into our remaining public hearing

2:28:26items uh or the the new public hearing

2:28:29items. So moving on to item 14I. That is

2:28:32AO2026118.

2:28:34An ordinance amending the Anchorage 20

2:28:36240 land use plan map designation of one

2:28:39lot containing approximately 0.19 acres

2:28:42from compact mixed residential medium to

2:28:44town center for lot 22 Morehead

2:28:46subdivision addition number four plat

2:28:4872122. Public hearing on this item is

2:28:51now open. Please come forward if you

2:28:52wish to testify. And the microphone

2:28:54needs to be turned on. There you go.

2:28:55State your name, part of town, and

2:28:57you'll have three minutes.

2:28:58>> Hello, my name is Kate Sove. That's S A

2:29:00U V. I am the petitioner's

2:29:02representative for this case. Uh this

2:29:04case and the following case number 14J.

2:29:09Uh these cases would amend the

2:29:10comprehensive plans land use designation

2:29:12of town center and reszone the lots to

2:29:13B3 general business. This would extend

2:29:16the B3 zoning district from directly

2:29:18from the east and the south of the site.

2:29:20These cases are supported by both the

2:29:22municipal planning department and the

2:29:23planning and zoning commission. The PCC

2:29:25found that this site isn't appropriately

2:29:27uh located for this reszone. The

2:29:30proposals met all approval criteria and

2:29:32no members of the public or reviewing

2:29:34agencies were in opposition. I ask that

2:29:36you vote in favor of these cases and I'm

2:29:38able to answer any questions that the

2:29:39board might have. Thank you for your

2:29:40time.

2:29:42>> Thank you. Don't see anyone in the queue

2:29:44right now. Uh anyone else wish to

2:29:45testify? Please come forward. Anyone at

2:29:48all? Seeing and hearing no one. Public

2:29:51hearing on this item is now closed.

2:29:53What's the will of the body?

2:29:54>> Move to approve.

2:29:54>> Second.

2:29:56>> Motion to approve uh by Miss uh Baldwin

2:29:59Day. second by Mr. Boland. Would you

2:30:00like to speak to it, Miss Baldday?

2:30:06>> Um, I don't I don't think I have any any

2:30:08particular comments on this one. Just um

2:30:10I know that this is important to the

2:30:11Abbott Loop community. They're really

2:30:13interested in seeing their town center

2:30:16look and feel a little different than it

2:30:17does right now. And this reszone

2:30:19absolutely uh moves that particular area

2:30:23in the direction that they're hoping to

2:30:24go. So, I urge my colleague support.

2:30:26Thank you.

2:30:28Okay. Okay. Anyone else? I don't see

2:30:29anyone else in the queue. So, um,

2:30:33uh, members may proceed to vote on this

2:30:35item. And I will also ask youth

2:30:36representative, how do you vote on this

2:30:38item?

2:30:40Yes.

2:30:43Okay.

2:30:45And members may proceed to vote.

2:30:51Okay. On a vote of 12 to 0, AO 202618

2:30:54passes the body unanimously. Next we

2:30:57have item 14J that is AO2026119

2:31:01an ordinance amending the zoning map and

2:31:02approving the resoning of one lot

2:31:04containing approximately 0.91 sorry 09

2:31:08acres from R5 lowdensity residential

2:31:10district to B3 general business district

2:31:12for lot 22 Moran subdivision addition

2:31:15number four plat 72122 public hearing on

2:31:17this item is now open please come

2:31:19forward if you wish to testify

2:31:22anyone at all

2:31:25seeing and hearing no And public hearing

2:31:26on this item is now closed. What's the

2:31:28will of the body?

2:31:29>> Move to approve.

2:31:30>> Second.

2:31:31>> Motion by Miss Baldwin Day to approve.

2:31:33Second by Miss Park. Um, Miss Baldwin

2:31:35Day, would you like to speak to it?

2:31:37>> Um, did my previous comments and um,

2:31:40yeah, thank you for your support.

2:31:44Okay, I don't see anyone else in the

2:31:45queue. Um, so members may proceed to

2:31:48vote on this item. And how does the

2:31:49youth representative vote?

2:31:51>> Yes.

2:32:11Okay. On a vote of 12 to zero, AO

2:32:1420226119 passes the body unanimously.

2:32:17Uh, next we are on to item 14K. That is

2:32:20ordinance AO202563s,

2:32:23an ordinance of the Anchorage Municipal

2:32:25Assembly amending Anchorage Municipal

2:32:27Code Chapters 21.04 and 21.05 5 to allow

2:32:30self storage, storage yard, and parking

2:32:31lot or structures with 50 or more spaces

2:32:34uh uses within a B3 zoning district only

2:32:36if approved, reviewed and approved with

2:32:38a conditional use. Public hearing on

2:32:39this item is now open. Mr. Bol.

2:32:41>> Madam Chair, move to continue the public

2:32:43hearing to the regular meeting of

2:32:45December 1st.

2:32:47>> Second motion by Mr. Bolan to continue

2:32:50the public hearing on this item and send

2:32:52it to the meeting of December 1st.

2:32:53Second by Miss Baldwin Day. Any further

2:32:55discussion?

2:33:00Okay, no further discussion. Um, is

2:33:02there I guess I'll ask is there any

2:33:04objection to continuing this hearing to

2:33:06the meeting of December 1st?

2:33:11Okay, seeing and hearing none, um, then

2:33:12this item will be continued to the

2:33:14meeting of December 1st.

2:33:16Uh, next we have item 14L, ordinance

2:33:19AO2026121,

2:33:21an ordinance amending certain provisions

2:33:23of title 21 of Anchorage Municipal Code

2:33:25to allow shophouse designs, residential

2:33:27structures with accessory garage or

2:33:29workshop areas larger than the principal

2:33:30residential use. Public hearing on this

2:33:32item is now open. Please come forward if

2:33:34you wish to testify.

2:33:36Mr.

2:33:38>> Move to continue the public hearing to

2:33:40the regular meeting on December 1st.

2:33:42>> Second. Okay. Motion by Mr. to continue

2:33:44this item as well to the meeting the

2:33:46hearing to the meeting of December 1st

2:33:48second by Miss Baldwin Day. Um any

2:33:50further discussion on that?

2:33:54Okay. Um I will just note uh briefly the

2:33:57intent of the sponsors is to uh request

2:33:59that this get discussed at the um

2:34:02whatever the next housing community

2:34:03economic development uh committee

2:34:05meeting is in November. And so I will

2:34:07follow up directly um but just to state

2:34:08on the record that they that may be

2:34:10discussed in the future. Um and uh

2:34:13otherwise is there any objection to

2:34:15continuing the hearing on this item to

2:34:16December 1st.

2:34:20Okay. See hearing none then uh this item

2:34:22is continued to the meeting of December

2:34:231st including the public hearing. Uh

2:34:26next we have item 14M. So I'm going to

2:34:28read it the title and then I'm going to

2:34:31read um the laid on the table item that

2:34:34we didn't get to earlier and then I'm

2:34:35going to turn to Mr. Handelin briefly.

2:34:36So, AO2026133,

2:34:39an ordinance of the municipality of

2:34:40Anchorage authorizing a fifth extension

2:34:42of a ground lease at less than fair

2:34:44market value for a parcel parcel located

2:34:47adjacent to the Chugak Eel River Senior

2:34:49Center in Chugiak, legally described as

2:34:51lot 3, section 16, Township, uh, 15

2:34:54North uh, Range One West Seward Meridian

2:34:5705119402.

2:34:59Um, and then before I open the public

2:35:01hearing on that, I'm also going to read

2:35:02into the record the supplemental item.

2:35:04Uh it is information memorandum AIM

2:35:06unnumbered an ordinance of the

2:35:08municipality of Anchorage authorizing a

2:35:10fifth extension of a ground lease at

2:35:11less than fair market value for a parcel

2:35:13located uh uh sorry same title uh and

2:35:17then this is a uh collection of uh

2:35:20comments on this item. And so before we

2:35:22open public hearing, I'm going to turn

2:35:23to Mr. Handeland.

2:35:24>> Yeah, just a uh conflict of interest in

2:35:27my eagerness to support the uh Chugak

2:35:30Eagle River Senior Center. I signed up

2:35:32to become a member uh for $225

2:35:38and so I just wanted to disclose that. I

2:35:40don't think that that is a significant

2:35:42conflict of interest, but I will defer

2:35:44to the ruling of the chair.

2:35:46>> Thank you. Um yeah, so that was a

2:35:48disclosure um disclosure of a uh

2:35:51personal interest in this uh facility.

2:35:54I'm going to rule at this time that this

2:35:56does not sub does not constitute a

2:35:58substantial conflict of interest. Um, I

2:36:00imagine there's a number of members. Um,

2:36:01I guess another question, Mr. Hendel,

2:36:04are you currently um engaging in any

2:36:06activities at the senior center?

2:36:08>> No, I am not.

2:36:10>> Okay. Okay. [laughter]

2:36:11So, um, so again, I'm going to rule at

2:36:13this time that Mr. Handelin does not

2:36:15have a conflict of interest and

2:36:16therefore can participate in this item.

2:36:18Uh, and again, the ruling of the chair

2:36:20can be uh can be appealed if people feel

2:36:23differently. Um, so with that,

2:36:25>> sorry, go ahead, Mr. Gerk. I don't

2:36:27believe I have a conflict either, but

2:36:28just in the interest of disclosure, I I

2:36:30previously worked at at the senior

2:36:31center as their public relations

2:36:33director. I do not work there anymore,

2:36:34though.

2:36:35>> Okay.

2:36:35>> I am not a member either. I am

2:36:38significantly younger than Mr.

2:36:39Handeland.

2:36:40>> Okay. Thank you. And just again for the

2:36:41record, so when was your either last day

2:36:44or last month of employment? If you

2:36:45>> Last day of employment was December of

2:36:472025.

2:36:50>> Okay. You said December 2025.

2:36:54So with that one, um I and apologies, I

2:36:56know there is somebody here to testify.

2:36:58I think because it's within a year, um I

2:37:01do want to get the advice of attorneys.

2:37:03Um because generally what we've said is

2:37:05disclosures are not required after a

2:37:07calendar year or not, sorry, not

2:37:08calendar, a full 12 months of

2:37:10employment, but since this is within

2:37:11that, I just want to make sure that

2:37:12we're not overstepping.

2:37:15So I'll turn to community attorney. Can

2:37:17you please put that on the record? Thank

2:37:18you.

2:37:19>> Uh through the chair or to the chair.

2:37:21Uh, I believe this is fine.

2:37:23>> Okay. Thank you. And I will note there

2:37:25was a thumbs up prior to that verbal

2:37:26statement. Um, okay. So, I'm also going

2:37:28to rule that Mr. Girker does not have a

2:37:30conflict of interest um in participating

2:37:32in this item. We read this item in the

2:37:34record. So, now we will turn back to our

2:37:36public hearing. Um, so again, I've read

2:37:38the item into the record. So, now public

2:37:39hearing is open. So, if you would like

2:37:41to testify on this item, please come

2:37:42forward. And I will note um the

2:37:45microphone is off. So, you'll need to

2:37:46press the button when the light is on.

2:37:48Then, state your name, part of town.

2:37:49You'll have three minutes. Yes. Hello.

2:37:51My name is Andrew Fierro. I'm a member

2:37:54of the board of directors of Chooiak

2:37:56Senior Citizens Incorporated, and I'm

2:37:59here to request uh um by the board that

2:38:03the um assembly approve the uh ground

2:38:07lease extension between the municipality

2:38:09of Anchorage and the Chooak Senior

2:38:11Citizens Incorporated.

2:38:18I want to say that we have an executive

2:38:21director, Amy Dimbosski. We have a staff

2:38:24that is very efficient, fully

2:38:26functioning, and we have a board of

2:38:28directors that have all come together,

2:38:30and we've actually mapped out a concrete

2:38:33plan to go forward with this. As the

2:38:36assembly is aware, there is a growing

2:38:38need for uh services for senior

2:38:41citizens. um we have a growing

2:38:44population of senior citizens in the

2:38:45state and certainly within the

2:38:47municipality

2:38:49um that we actually have mapped out a uh

2:38:55a program here where there can be actual

2:38:58checks. Um so uh some of this requires

2:39:02the initial lease extension process.

2:39:05That's why we're here today. Uh we've

2:39:07already done community outreach. We've

2:39:10gotten uh resolutions from all five

2:39:13community councils in the area to

2:39:15support this. We've gotten letters

2:39:18letters from citizens. We've gotten

2:39:19letters from clubs and organizations. Um

2:39:23I think uh one labor union has uh also

2:39:27agreed that we need to go forward with

2:39:29this. So, I don't think there's any

2:39:31question that the services that are

2:39:33currently being provided need to be

2:39:35extended and that we need to expand um

2:39:39housing for senior citizens. And the

2:39:41only way to do this is to start out with

2:39:43the the lease extension. Um we're

2:39:47actually working with the city to uh get

2:39:50water uh services extended to the the

2:39:54new parcel, the 7.2 acres. Um, we're

2:39:57also working on grant funding and um,

2:40:02uh, tax credits to be able to finance

2:40:05this project. As the assembly probably

2:40:08can guess, this is going to be a project

2:40:10that's going to require a lot of money.

2:40:12Um, but because we do have a concrete

2:40:14plan, I think we can move forward and we

2:40:16can move forward a lot quicker than

2:40:19probably we have determined the the

2:40:21project flow and timeline. Um and we may

2:40:25be back here again um requesting permits

2:40:29and whatever it's going to take to get

2:40:31the program and the project off the

2:40:33ground and fully moving. But because we

2:40:36have a game plan, because we have u uh

2:40:39all uh parts of the uh senior citizens

2:40:43uh incorporated working together, uh

2:40:46it's going to come together.

2:40:51>> Any any questions? Thanks for your

2:40:53testimony. Um, I don't see any questions

2:40:55at this time, but I imagine people might

2:40:57call you up if um, so stay stay tight or

2:40:59sit tight.

2:41:00>> Okay.

2:41:01>> Thank you. Uh, anyone else wish to

2:41:02testify on this item?

2:41:08>> Okay. Uh, please come forward. State

2:41:09your name, part of town. You'll have

2:41:10three minutes. And the microphone's

2:41:11already on.

2:41:12>> Skyler Quinn. S ky l e r q i n. I'm from

2:41:16Eagle River. Good evening everyone. Uh,

2:41:19I am the managing member of Q2 Partners

2:41:21LLC. Uh we developed and constructed the

2:41:24most recent affordable housing mixeduse

2:41:26project in Eagle River. It's uh our our

2:41:29current project is is a two-phase

2:41:31project with 30 units in each phase. Um

2:41:34we have 30 units that are fully done. We

2:41:36have a 0% vacancy. They're all all

2:41:40leased up. Uh and we're envisioning

2:41:42something kind of similar to that on

2:41:44this parcel. Um subdividing it two-phase

2:41:48project trying to fit roughly 30 units

2:41:49in in each phase. Um, we're we we have

2:41:53experience in this area. Um, we're local

2:41:56to the community. Um, I I think we're

2:41:59well versed on challenges and I would

2:42:01urge your support. Um, everything I will

2:42:04say our plan is pretty preliminary right

2:42:06now. We kind of want to see if this were

2:42:07to happen, this extension were to happen

2:42:09before starting to deploy significant

2:42:11resources into the project. Um, but if

2:42:14if you do have questions, I'll try to do

2:42:15my best to answer. Thanks.

2:42:18>> Okay. Thank you. I don't see any

2:42:20questions right now, but again, stick

2:42:21around. Um,

2:42:24okay. Anyone else wish to testify,

2:42:25please come forward. Anyone at all?

2:42:29Seeing hearing none, public hearing on

2:42:31this item is now closed. What's the will

2:42:32of the body?

2:42:33>> Move to approve. Sorry.

2:42:34>> Second.

2:42:35>> Okay. Motion by Mr. Hendeland to

2:42:37approve. Second by Mr. Girker. Uh, Mr.

2:42:38Handle, do you want to speak to it

2:42:40further?

2:42:40>> Yes. Thank you. Thank you, chair. I'm

2:42:42glad to support this lease extension for

2:42:43the Chooak Senior Citizens. Uh, Chiak

2:42:46Eagle River Senior Center does a

2:42:48tremendous amount of work in our

2:42:49community and they provide senior

2:42:51housing, assisted uh, living, meals on

2:42:53wheels, transportation to medical

2:42:55appointments and shopping, uh, adult day

2:42:58services. Not that I'm participating in

2:43:00those uh, uh, helping seniors and their

2:43:03families. Uh, they give back a

2:43:05tremendous amount to the community and I

2:43:07think that's uh, expressed in just the

2:43:09outpouring of support that we've seen

2:43:11uh, both in the packet in our emails

2:43:13here. And so this extension gives the

2:43:15organizations times to pursue financing,

2:43:17move forward with additional housing uh

2:43:20for the next center. U the next phase

2:43:22would provide approximately 30 homes to

2:43:24seniors building on the services that

2:43:26are already available there. Um and I

2:43:29just want to point out I really

2:43:30appreciate the staff. I got to uh go on

2:43:32a tour there with Congressman Beag and

2:43:34the amount of uh pushing that executive

2:43:37director Dumbowski was uh doing there of

2:43:40hey, how can we get our federal

2:43:42partners, our state partners, our local

2:43:44partners all on board with making sure

2:43:46that this project goes forward was

2:43:49really astounding and I really

2:43:50appreciate that. So I would appreciate

2:43:52my colleagues supporting this. Thank

2:43:56>> Okay, next I have Mr. Girker.

2:43:58>> Thank you, Madam Chair. I just want to

2:44:00also add, you know, as the the Chooak

2:44:03Senior Center is a is a jewel of the

2:44:05Chooiak community. Everybody loves and

2:44:08adores uh the center and and it's it's

2:44:10so much more than just, you know, uh

2:44:13senior housing or or senior programming.

2:44:15It's it's truly a community center where

2:44:17people from all different walks and and

2:44:20and uh from every different walks of

2:44:23life, they're all coming there. They're

2:44:24hosting events. Um the Shugyak Shinooks

2:44:28board meets there. There's local

2:44:30organizations that come and meet there,

2:44:31political organiza. They're all there

2:44:33engaging and it's a part of the it's a

2:44:35huge part of the community. Um, and it's

2:44:38it's it's desperate it's desperately

2:44:40needed. We need more of this desperately

2:44:42within Anchorage to provide uh more

2:44:44housing and and um services for for

2:44:49senior folks. And also just want to

2:44:50thank you Andy so much for being here.

2:44:52It's great to see you and the hard work

2:44:54that you and the board um and the

2:44:57executive team and until last year a

2:44:59very handsome uh PR director too um for

2:45:03all the hard work that's been going on

2:45:04there guys truly appreciate it. Uh we're

2:45:07you know we're in your corner.

2:45:08Appreciate it. Thanks.

2:45:11>> Thanks. Next, Mr. Martinez.

2:45:13>> Thank you, Chair. I got a question to

2:45:15the sponsors and perhaps to the

2:45:16administration. I think there are some

2:45:18uh points that the administration has

2:45:20identified in this in terms of some of

2:45:23the clauses but the first question I

2:45:25have is essentially

2:45:29the clarification of what this

2:45:31particular land is

2:45:35and what this item is. I just wanted to

2:45:38make sure for the record that

2:45:40what we're talking about for

2:45:41confirmation is not the actual senior

2:45:44center senior citizen center today where

2:45:46that's operating. That's not what we're

2:45:48talking about. We're talking about an

2:45:49adjacent piece of property for a

2:45:50potential future development. Just

2:45:52wanted to clarifate clarify that

2:45:58the sponsors could jump in as well. It

2:46:00doesn't really matter to me, but

2:46:04>> thanks. I I guess it looks like Mr. Dole

2:46:05is ready to respond. through the chair.

2:46:08Uh Bob Dole, director of community

2:46:09economic development, which oversees HLB

2:46:11and real estate. This is a vacant parcel

2:46:14immediately adjacent to the current uh

2:46:17senior center. It is it is land that has

2:46:20been on a separate uh it's a separate

2:46:22parcel. It's on a separate lease uh for

2:46:25housing.

2:46:26>> Thank you. I wanted to make sure that

2:46:28that was clear because I think that um

2:46:33the difference between the successful

2:46:35and important operations of a senior

2:46:38center today and the developmental

2:46:41prospect of a parcel of land that's

2:46:43being potentially discussed I think are

2:46:45different. I think the nature of saying

2:46:48for example that this organization does

2:46:51really good work and then we would hope

2:46:54that they would continue that sort of

2:46:55good work with the next parcel is

2:46:58different than than uh than I than I

2:47:01understand it today. So what I wanted to

2:47:03get to is

2:47:06one additional question is is is where

2:47:08is this property located with respect to

2:47:12wildfire interface

2:47:16>> through the chair Bob do director for

2:47:18community economic development like many

2:47:20areas in the municipality it is in an

2:47:23area that may be considered vulnerable.

2:47:26>> Thank you.

2:47:28Is there an urgency today

2:47:31for this particular item? Does this item

2:47:34interfere with the existing operations

2:47:37of the senior center today? through the

2:47:39chair. If this item is not passed today,

2:47:42the uh lease lapses. Uh we are at the ed

2:47:45the reverter clause ends on the 31st and

2:47:48at that time uh there is no forward path

2:47:50for this parcel to be developed into

2:47:52housing

2:47:55>> under the existing lease

2:47:58through the chair. That is correct.

2:47:59>> So there could be a new development

2:48:02proposal, a new lease, just a new

2:48:04process fundamentally that could be

2:48:06true. So it doesn't

2:48:08not moving on it today doesn't quash

2:48:10this totally

2:48:12>> through the chair uh director Bob do it

2:48:15delays the uh movement forward on

2:48:17housing that is vitally needed

2:48:19>> thank you for that point

2:48:22what is being delayed if this is under

2:48:24proposal and there is no development

2:48:26plan and so I wanted to get to something

2:48:28because we we've disposed a few pieces

2:48:30of property and one of the questions

2:48:32that have been emerged is how long will

2:48:34people sit on that property

2:48:37through the chair. May uh I'm sorry I

2:48:39didn't mean to cut you off.

2:48:40>> No, and I was going Thank you because I

2:48:41was going to give you credit before you

2:48:42even spoke on it. And in the memo, it

2:48:44describes that the MOA is proposing a

2:48:46few milestones

2:48:49and those milestones are to make sure

2:48:51that development happens. Is that

2:48:52accurate? And can you describe some of

2:48:53those milestones publicly? through the

2:48:56chair based on my experience and other

2:48:58organizations working with the

2:49:00development and financing necessary for

2:49:02a low-income housing tax project of this

2:49:05where which will predominantly serve. 6

2:49:08AMI or less, you have to fit in with the

2:49:10AH AHFC um rounds in which they uh make

2:49:15this available. Specifically, those are

2:49:16called gold rounds. So what the what

2:49:19needs to happen for this to go forward

2:49:21now is there has to be a um an agreement

2:49:26between uh they have to prepare for the

2:49:28November AHFC evaluation that's but they

2:49:31have to board architects engineers to

2:49:34develop that plan to go forward so this

2:49:36can compete with other uh projects from

2:49:39across the state. We put in two rounds

2:49:41of that. We didn't uh because frankly

2:49:44only about onethird of the projects

2:49:46submitted to the goal round uh at AHFC

2:49:48are selected. So we built in that we

2:49:51built in what we thought were reasonable

2:49:52and prudent times after um th those

2:49:56rounds as the basis for funding for the

2:49:59um the uh design the construction and

2:50:02also split it into two phases which is

2:50:05also the norm for these going forward.

2:50:07So we took what was a normal development

2:50:10time frame and rather than just saying

2:50:11get back to us in eight years or 10

2:50:13years, we took to heart what the body

2:50:15said as we discussed the last reverter

2:50:17clause and applied what we thought were

2:50:19reasonable and prudent deadlines so we

2:50:21can get on with uh contributing these to

2:50:23the 10,000 houses Mayor Lef France has

2:50:26identified we need to do now not

2:50:28starting over uh doing an RFP pushing

2:50:32the process back a year or two and then

2:50:33uh doing a slow start.

2:50:36So can you just describe the first gate?

2:50:38What is the first time the timeline um

2:50:41of the first priority that has to be

2:50:43achieved the first milestone before we

2:50:46know whether or not the reversion clause

2:50:48is going to be activatable?

2:50:53And and I thank you for the the the

2:50:55dialogue. These are precedent setting in

2:50:57terms of how we dispose of property and

2:51:00the expectations that the community has

2:51:02for the development of them. through the

2:51:04chair, the uh member Martinez. Uh the

2:51:07first um goal is to identify financing

2:51:10by December 31st of 2028. That

2:51:13presupposes they get two rounds of going

2:51:15to AHFC to compete for those federal and

2:51:18state funds that are only allocated once

2:51:20a year in that competition. So in other

2:51:23words, by the end of December 2028, if

2:51:26the financing is not in place, the

2:51:29property reverts back to

2:51:32no lease.

2:51:34>> So the chair member Martinez says

2:51:36correct

2:51:37>> and and I wanted to put a finer point on

2:51:38that then as well. So this gives a this

2:51:41from my from my perspective to the

2:51:43administration

2:51:45we should have a priority of developing

2:51:47properties

2:51:49independent of the particular operator

2:51:51of the moment. And so I would hope that

2:51:55if the property is suitable for

2:51:58development is if it's suitable for

2:51:59housing that even if they don't reach

2:52:02the benchmark that we continue to keep

2:52:04our eye on the ball of what potentially

2:52:07else could go there. Um, but I think

2:52:09that it's adequate to have a milestone

2:52:14in writing that describes uh key points

2:52:18or properties get reverted back to us

2:52:21because we have a history of saying yes

2:52:24to uh less than market value property

2:52:28disposals and um and then sometimes like

2:52:31no projects happening and the properties

2:52:34languish. and the school district is,

2:52:36you know, in my mind, one of those

2:52:38holders of land where schools were going

2:52:40to be built and, you know, and we're

2:52:42still getting back some of that

2:52:43property. So, uh, thank you for the

2:52:45discussion. Thank you for the

2:52:46clarification and I think my I can

2:52:49support this today, but um, I appreciate

2:52:51the the milestones, uh, to advance

2:52:54development. Thank you.

2:52:58>> Okay, I don't see anyone else in the

2:52:59queue, so members may proceed to vote on

2:53:02this item. Uh, it is to approve AO

2:53:042026133. And how does the youth member

2:53:06vote?

2:53:07>> Yes.

2:53:16>> Okay. On a vote of 12 to zero, uh, AO

2:53:192026133 passes the body unanimously. Um,

2:53:22next we will move on to item 14N. That

2:53:24is AO2026135.

2:53:27An ordinance reauthorizing the

2:53:28municipality of Anchorage, Anchorage

2:53:29Water and Wastewater Utility and the

2:53:31Municipality of Anchorage Anchorage

2:53:32Hydro Power to execute and enter into

2:53:34three agreements pertaining to the

2:53:36municipal public water supply and the

2:53:38olutin hydroelectric project fish and

2:53:40wildlife program. Public hearing on this

2:53:42item is now open. Please come forward if

2:53:43you wish to testify.

2:53:46Anyone at all?

2:53:49Seeing hearing no one, public hearing on

2:53:51this item is now closed. What's the will

2:53:52of the body?

2:53:55>> Move to approve.

2:53:56>> Second.

2:53:58>> Motion by Miss Park to approve. Second

2:54:00by Miss Baldwin Day. Miss Park, would

2:54:01you like to speak to it?

2:54:04>> Okay. Um, next in the queue, I have uh

2:54:07Mr. Perezia.

2:54:08>> Thank you, chair. I I paused because I

2:54:11am Was there a work session on this that

2:54:14I missed?

2:54:17>> I do not believe there was.

2:54:19>> Okay. I'm um

2:54:22I'm concerned that um I'm not sure um

2:54:24we're voting on something we fully

2:54:26understand or at least I fully

2:54:28understand. Um and so I I I'm not

2:54:32necessarily wanting to have that

2:54:33conversation tonight, but this is a this

2:54:36is has a long history um that um I would

2:54:40hate to make a misstep at this point

2:54:42with. Um and so I'd like to I'd like to

2:54:44make sure we have some time to look at

2:54:46this and have some conversation around

2:54:47it. Um so I I would encourage the mover

2:54:51to withdraw their motion and allow us to

2:54:53move to postpone to give us an

2:54:55opportunity to have a works session on

2:54:57this.

2:54:58>> So uh before we do anything further um I

2:55:00see Miss Gardner in the queue and I

2:55:02think she may be able to illuminate um

2:55:05some issues here. Thanks.

2:55:07>> Thank you through the [clears throat]

2:55:09chair. Uh so these are agreements that

2:55:12the assembly has actually considered had

2:55:14work session at least one work session

2:55:16on and voted on before. So you might

2:55:18recall that in December of 2025 these

2:55:21came before the assembly and they were

2:55:23approved with certain conditions uh that

2:55:25were in the ordinance language itself in

2:55:27the uncodified um ordinance language.

2:55:31And so they are coming back. They are

2:55:33substantially the same. They're

2:55:34effectively the same agreements. some

2:55:36minor wording differences that are not

2:55:38substantive. But the main change is that

2:55:40now they would be coming back before the

2:55:42assembly uh for approval without those

2:55:45additional conditions

2:55:48and that is explained in the

2:55:50accompanying memorandum but the

2:55:51agreements themselves have not really

2:55:53changed.

2:55:58Right. Um, can I just respond respond?

2:56:00There's there's also a a public um

2:56:02presentation on the the the hydrop power

2:56:06isn't that coming up this weekend or

2:56:10>> Yeah, it's next week.

2:56:11>> Yes, next week. Um, let me just ask this

2:56:14question. What is the is there a risk?

2:56:16Is there any down is there anything

2:56:18wrong with post postponing? Is there is

2:56:21that to delay something? Is that is that

2:56:22going to create a problem? Can you give

2:56:24us a sense of what what a delay of a

2:56:26couple of weeks would do due to this?

2:56:28uh through the chair. Uh there is a

2:56:31report that are the co-owners of the uh

2:56:35hydroelectric project uh have due to the

2:56:37governor and they have been delaying

2:56:38that to see if the assembly will

2:56:39authorize will approve these agreements.

2:56:41I will say when these came before the

2:56:43assembly in December of 2025, we had the

2:56:47municipality had amended them and had

2:56:48redlinined them and incorporated edits

2:56:50that provide for if pump storage hydro

2:56:53power is the alternative that is

2:56:55ultimately selected. these would not

2:56:57actually go into effect and those

2:56:58provisions are still in there and in

2:57:00fact have been strengthened. So uh they

2:57:03do not have an impact on or they

2:57:05wouldn't have any uh create any risk to

2:57:07the pump storage hydro process or any

2:57:09other effort that's underway. Um but

2:57:11there is I think there is some time

2:57:13sensitivity to them. They were

2:57:14introduced I think two meetings ago um

2:57:16and held over to this meeting.

2:57:19>> So maybe just ask answer the question

2:57:21more more more directly. What what would

2:57:22a two week did a delay do?

2:57:26uh it would delay a report that I

2:57:28believe was due in early October to the

2:57:30governor and then it does create some

2:57:32potential risk for uh litigation to

2:57:34force ultimately potentially force a

2:57:37connection

2:57:42>> and if I can offer some additional um

2:57:44information or at least uh I know we

2:57:47have another person in the queue. So uh

2:57:49I I am aware that u Miss Scout and Miss

2:57:52Baldwin Day have been tracking this more

2:57:54closely working with the project team.

2:57:55So I wonder if um uh Miss Scout might

2:57:58also have some illumination on this.

2:57:59>> Yeah.

2:58:02>> Yeah. I can share a bit about this.

2:58:04Although I will say I do welcome a

2:58:07two-eek delay um [clears throat] because

2:58:09I

2:58:11was concerned that we um weren't able to

2:58:14bring this in front of our colleagues

2:58:16and I wasn't able to get this on the um

2:58:18agenda for the energy committee in time.

2:58:20So I apologize for that. Um

2:58:25my Yeah. So I welcome a two-e delay is

2:58:28my main point. My understanding of um

2:58:33the updates here are

2:58:37simply to um adjust for the current

2:58:41reality of where we are in negotiations.

2:58:44It sounds like um there will be a forced

2:58:47connection anyways. And so it's a

2:58:50question of whether we do it on our

2:58:52terms or if we enter into litigation.

2:58:54and um municipal

2:58:57municipal attorney Gardner, you're

2:58:58welcome to correct me on that, but

2:58:59that's my assessment of the situation.

2:59:02So, it really um I don't believe that

2:59:05this ordinance changes

2:59:09any outcomes um substantially. It just

2:59:12allows us to move forward more on our

2:59:15terms and rather than being called into

2:59:17the court.

2:59:22Any further comments, Mr. Pia?

2:59:25>> No, it's looks like there's others in

2:59:27the queue though, correct? Yeah, I just

2:59:30like to hear from others, so I'll

2:59:32relinquish the the the the

2:59:34speaking space.

2:59:36>> Okay. Um, so then next I'll move to Miss

2:59:38Scout. I know you were answering

2:59:39questions, but if you have additional

2:59:41comments you wanted to add or if that

2:59:42was it.

2:59:43>> No, I um wanted to speak to those

2:59:46concerns because I assumed they would

2:59:48come up. So, thanks.

2:59:50>> Okay. Um and then next I see um Miss

2:59:52Gardner in the queue again.

2:59:54>> Thank you through the chair. I did want

2:59:56to mention that we did preview this in

2:59:58the July 16th uh formerly IEOC committee

3:00:02meeting and did explain this approach

3:00:04and signal that it would be coming

3:00:05before the body. Um so happy to answer

3:00:07any further questions right now that

3:00:09members may have but again the

3:00:10agreements themselves are the same. It's

3:00:12merely the lifting of a condition that

3:00:14has become obsolete and is now uh not

3:00:17useful to remain in there. Um, and I

3:00:20will mention uh AW's, uh, assistant

3:00:22general manager is here and can speak to

3:00:24the importance of these agreements to

3:00:25AWU because one of three of them does

3:00:28secure our long-term public water

3:00:29supply. We are currently operating under

3:00:31a short-term extension that goes through

3:00:33next fall. Um, and this would replace it

3:00:36with a significantly better contract

3:00:39that secures our water rights in the

3:00:42long term.

3:00:46>> Okay. Next, I have Mr. Handelind.

3:00:48Thanks. Uh I would echo my kind of

3:00:50colleagues uh [clears throat] uh

3:00:52sentiment to to have a little bit more

3:00:54time with this. So I will move that we

3:00:56postpone this to a time certain of the

3:00:58November 4th assembly meeting.

3:01:02>> Second.

3:01:03>> Okay. Motion by Mr. Handeland to

3:01:05postpone this item to the meeting of

3:01:06November 4th. Second by uh uh Miss Park.

3:01:11Uh do you want to speak to it further,

3:01:12Mr. Handling?

3:01:14>> Nope.

3:01:16>> Okay. Okay. Uh, Miss Park, do you want

3:01:17to speak to the postponement?

3:01:18>> Yes. Actually, I was going to uh

3:01:20withdraw my motion and move to to uh uh

3:01:25hear this at a time certain. So,

3:01:27>> okay,

3:01:28>> that's

3:01:29>> Yeah, a madam clerk can speak to kind of

3:01:30the procedure.

3:01:32>> So, our code talks about um well, a

3:01:35motion to postpone can be a main motion

3:01:38or it can be a subsidiary motion and

3:01:41it's in the way it's functioning right

3:01:43now. It's a subsidiary motion. So, um,

3:01:45it would we are postponing it if you

3:01:48vote on this to November the 4th and

3:01:50then when we get to the fourth, there

3:01:52will be a motion on the floor to approve

3:01:55so that you can move right into debate.

3:02:01>> Okay. Any further comment on the post?

3:02:03Okay.

3:02:03>> No, thank you.

3:02:04>> Okay. Next, Mr. Martinez on the

3:02:06postponement.

3:02:07>> I was just going to ask if that was

3:02:08enough time. I mean, considering the

3:02:10request is to have a pause to dig into

3:02:14it more, is the first meeting of

3:02:15November enough time.

3:02:22And I'm not sure who can answer that

3:02:23question.

3:02:25>> Yeah, I think um

3:02:26>> maybe the scheduling of

3:02:28maybe it's a scheduling question, chair.

3:02:30Yeah, I think um in terms of scheduling

3:02:32um I know we do have a tight um tight

3:02:35time frame, but I think we can find time

3:02:37uh if necessary certainly to do a

3:02:39briefing on this. Um I think the timing

3:02:41of committee meetings is probably they

3:02:43won't line up properly, but we could do

3:02:45a work session. So So yeah, I think that

3:02:47don't look at that as a barrier to how

3:02:49we move forward.

3:02:50>> Thank you, Chair.

3:02:51>> Okay. And then the queue is frozen, but

3:02:53I could see at that point in time, Miss

3:02:54Baldwin Day was next in queue for

3:02:56postponement.

3:02:57>> Yeah, thank you. Um, so I I'm I'm

3:02:59curious what the hoped for uh what the

3:03:02hope for outcome of an additional work

3:03:06session to consider might be. And is

3:03:08there a thought that we might be

3:03:10substantively changing these agreements

3:03:12in some way?

3:03:18Question for the mover in the second.

3:03:23Yeah. So, um, question for the folks

3:03:27moving to postpone. M, I think it was

3:03:28Mr. Handling and Miss Park, do you have

3:03:30further comments on that?

3:03:31>> Yeah, I mean, I I mean, I've got

3:03:33[clears throat] a couple questions kind

3:03:35of on this and I, uh, I mean, being a

3:03:37new member, want to kind of fully

3:03:38understand it before we're we're making

3:03:40some decisions and kind of just hearing

3:03:42from the my colleagues on it and not

3:03:45wanting to belabor the point was kind of

3:03:47the the purpose of it of if if people

3:03:51aren't aren't ready to to decide on

3:03:52this, let let's do it. move on with the

3:03:54rest of our business and um hopefully

3:03:56the the two weeks doesn't uh co cause

3:03:59too much of an issue there.

3:04:05>> Yeah. Um so I I I appreciate that. Um I

3:04:08think for for my part and I realize that

3:04:11I've been a bit closer to this issue

3:04:13than the the rest of the folks on the

3:04:15DAS and I absolutely think it's worth um

3:04:17everyone being really familiar with you

3:04:19know the interplay between um our

3:04:23hydropower utility um Chach electric

3:04:25matnus electric and so on. um that we we

3:04:29have in fact we have in fact um voted on

3:04:33these agreements once before uh in

3:04:36December of last year. and the the terms

3:04:40that this body chose to include related

3:04:43to a pending case before the regulatory

3:04:47commission of Alaska with respect to uh

3:04:49the the voting rights or the

3:04:51distribution of voting rights among the

3:04:53partners um that being AHP MEA and CA

3:04:58and at that time we we were we were

3:05:00hopeful that um there could be some

3:05:03negotiation and that CA and and MEA

3:05:06would be supportive of our desire to to

3:05:08have or to retain at least um a partial

3:05:11vote, a partial say so in the

3:05:13operations. Um that as Miss Gardner

3:05:16pointed out uh is now moot. That that

3:05:18case is no longer before the RCA. And so

3:05:21these are fundamentally the same

3:05:22agreements that were negotiated in 2024.

3:05:25Uh we're just bringing them back around

3:05:28because the condition that we placed on

3:05:29them prior is no longer possible. It's

3:05:32no longer effective. And so, um,

3:05:35[clears throat] I I I appreciate that

3:05:38there's a desire to want to understand

3:05:40the the contents here, and I'm I'm sort

3:05:43of agnostic on the the prospect of

3:05:46postponement. Um, but I I think it it is

3:05:50um these the these three agreements, I

3:05:52mean, they are fairly thick. uh have

3:05:56gone through a fairly significant

3:05:58process through the department of law um

3:06:01with um AWU with our our hydropower

3:06:04director. And so um I I guess I'm a

3:06:08little torn as to whether I mean if we

3:06:10don't intend to add additional

3:06:12conditions to these agreements, I I'm

3:06:15not sure that postponing approval of

3:06:18this item is necessary to get to the

3:06:21level of clarity that we're all looking

3:06:22for. Um again, if we intend to add new

3:06:26conditions, okay, sure, great. Um but if

3:06:29we believe that these, you know, moving

3:06:31these agreements forward as originally

3:06:34envisioned is in the best interest of

3:06:36the municipality, I think there might be

3:06:38other opportunities to get caught up on

3:06:40the ins and outs of this whole very

3:06:43convoluted situation that we find

3:06:45ourselves in um with respect to um pump

3:06:48storage, hydropower, the portal valve

3:06:50option, all of these sort of moving

3:06:51parts. Um, so I guess I I put that out

3:06:55there to say um a little I'm kind of

3:06:58agnostic on postponement, but if we

3:07:00don't intend to make changes,

3:07:03perhaps there is a pathway to go ahead

3:07:04and do the approval tonight uh and then

3:07:08maybe have a more wholesome update on um

3:07:12the uta hydropower project as part of

3:07:15the energy enterprise and utility

3:07:17oversight committee in the future. Thank

3:07:18you.

3:07:22Okay. Um, I see Miss Gardner. Um, did

3:07:25you want to make further comments?

3:07:27Sorry, I'm trying to track the queue.

3:07:28The queue was frozen for a while. It

3:07:29looks like it's back. So, I was just

3:07:30clearing folks out if they had already

3:07:31spoken. Go ahead.

3:07:33>> Um, yeah, thank you through the chair. I

3:07:35am curious what additional information

3:07:37members would want and if it's something

3:07:40that we can discuss tonight or is

3:07:42potentially covered in the AM that's

3:07:44accompanying the ordinance. Um, because

3:07:46we would, you know, like to get these

3:07:48done. I do think for some additional

3:07:50background, we do have a legal duty to

3:07:53help the uh portal valve option go

3:07:57forward if pump storage hydro is not

3:07:58going forward. And so there was a

3:08:00governor's order in fall of October of

3:08:022024 that directed the portal valve

3:08:05option at this location to go forward um

3:08:08barring success of pump storage hydro.

3:08:10Uh and so given that I think that we

3:08:12[clears throat]

3:08:13could potentially be required to legally

3:08:16provide access, you know, and prov

3:08:21negotiated on terms that could be

3:08:22ordered by the regulatory commission of

3:08:24Alaska or court.

3:08:26[clears throat] And so that's why we

3:08:27have brought these back because uh they

3:08:30are a deal that AWU primarily negotiated

3:08:32uh on behalf of the municipality to

3:08:34protect the municipality's interests and

3:08:35its long-term water supply. Um, and I do

3:08:37want to point you to a couple of

3:08:39paragraphs in the AM um, for the

3:08:41background that acknowledge the history

3:08:43of these agreements with the assembly.

3:08:45Um, kind of briefly go through it uh,

3:08:49and explains why the condition, which is

3:08:51the only difference between what you

3:08:53approved in December of 2025 and what

3:08:55you're being asked to prove now, why the

3:08:57conditions are no longer applicable. Um,

3:08:59so yeah, would appreciate if everyone

3:09:01could take a glance at the memorandum um

3:09:03and let maybe share some thoughts on

3:09:05what additional information you would

3:09:06want before the next meeting to help you

3:09:08make a decision. [snorts]

3:09:12>> Okay. Uh, next in the queue I have Mr.

3:09:14Johnson on postponement.

3:09:16>> Yes. Thank you, Chair. I I guess my

3:09:18question, Miss Gardner, with a two-eek

3:09:20postponement, what what risks do we

3:09:22accept more specifically?

3:09:25So these were uh originally put in I

3:09:28think three meetings ago uh and we had

3:09:31hoped to have them uh approved or

3:09:33decided on at the following meeting.

3:09:35They were pushed because things have

3:09:36been very busy. But I have been getting

3:09:38very steady contact from our

3:09:40counterparts on the other side asking

3:09:42about what's going on. Um and as I think

3:09:45many of you know there is a what I'll

3:09:47call low level of trust between these

3:09:49particular entities and the assembly

3:09:51when it comes to this issue. And they

3:09:53think that delaying another two weeks uh

3:09:55introduces more uncertainty and does not

3:09:58assist with that trust issue uh and does

3:10:01risk having these agreements go away

3:10:02because they aren't something that the

3:10:04other parties are obligated to honor

3:10:07unless until you know we are in

3:10:09agreement they're appro approved for

3:10:11execution and we sign them. Um so I

3:10:13think that there's the possibility that

3:10:15these could go away and we could end up

3:10:17in the litigation posture on this issue

3:10:20again on terms that we would not choose.

3:10:23I think weighing that potential risk

3:10:25against the the other side of this um I

3:10:29suppose the the the possible benefit

3:10:31that a delay might lead to some sort of

3:10:33substantive revision in in our policy. I

3:10:36mean I I think for my part that

3:10:39when we don't have any clear direction

3:10:42that would take us different from what

3:10:44is already our current position, you

3:10:47know, when we're asking for the delay, I

3:10:48haven't heard any members suggest that

3:10:50we would come up with substantively

3:10:53different. I think weighing that against

3:10:55what feels like the the very tangible

3:10:56risk of potential litigation um and us

3:10:59perhaps finding ourselves ultimately in

3:11:01a position that feels worse to us than

3:11:02the status quo. I I I think um I'm

3:11:06inclined to suggest that we should not

3:11:07delay action on this. Certainly, I think

3:11:09it is reasonable and and beneficial if

3:11:11we had a briefing for the members to to

3:11:14kind of get up to speed on this, but I

3:11:15think as it stands, I I I believe we

3:11:18could do that and still approve uh

3:11:21what's before us tonight. So, I I would

3:11:23argue my colleagues to consider

3:11:25carefully the potential risk that we

3:11:27accept if we uh postpone action on this.

3:11:32>> Okay. Next I have myself in the queue.

3:11:34>> M Broly.

3:11:36>> Thank you. So um I as a member am

3:11:39speaking uh in I would against

3:11:42postponement and in favor of passing

3:11:45this tonight. Um with the understanding

3:11:47I guess I want to I want to kind of put

3:11:49on the table and name three different

3:11:50things here. One is there is as Mr.

3:11:53Presidia said there is a long history

3:11:55with this item. those of us who were

3:11:57here or even if you were not here and

3:11:59you watched uh from the outside um there

3:12:01was a lot of conflict. There was a lot

3:12:03of really trying to work out what the

3:12:05best agreement was in the municipality's

3:12:07interest and the fact that the water

3:12:09rights uh our our water supply uh issues

3:12:12are tied to this particular thing. So I

3:12:14think that so that is all true. There is

3:12:16years of public meetings that that folks

3:12:19can go to. There was executive sessions

3:12:20etc. So, I recognize that new members

3:12:22were not here for that. And so, but that

3:12:24is something that um and I don't

3:12:26recommend going back and digging through

3:12:27every single aspect of that. Um it was a

3:12:30lot, but uh but anyway, so so we're in a

3:12:31better place than we were. That's one

3:12:33thing. The second thing is this is a big

3:12:35deal. It's obviously it's been going on

3:12:36since 1991. There is a lot of things to

3:12:39unpack here. Um you know, this pretty

3:12:41much predates I think most of us up

3:12:43here. Maybe maybe Mr. Press radio was

3:12:45maybe you started before this whole

3:12:47discussion started, but I don't I mean

3:12:48it was not 1991. So that's the second

3:12:50thing and I think that is something that

3:12:52regardless of what we do tonight

3:12:54certainly we can make a work session we

3:12:56can make time in a committee I think

3:12:57there it is worthy to catch folks up to

3:12:59where we are. So um so let's plan on

3:13:02doing that regardless of what happens.

3:13:03The third thing though is I want to

3:13:05underscore um this is tied to our water

3:13:08supply agreement and so um I don't want

3:13:10to lose sight of the fact that it it is

3:13:11not that we should just pass something

3:13:13for the sake of of that but I think this

3:13:15has been thoroughly vetted. Um I I am

3:13:18not I don't know what a material change

3:13:20to this would be that would not also

3:13:22require probably renegotiation or

3:13:24whatever it would be. You know if we

3:13:25amend this then it does have other

3:13:26implications and so I really encourage

3:13:28folks that I don't think we should

3:13:29excuse me we shouldn't postpone this

3:13:31tonight. Sorry let me restate that we

3:13:33should not postpone this tonight in my

3:13:35opinion but certainly the larger issue

3:13:37and that the larger kind of history or

3:13:39current status of this project and where

3:13:40we are is certainly worthy of further

3:13:43discussion. uh some of it may also need

3:13:44to happen in executive session and so if

3:13:46and when we do that um that would not be

3:13:48a work session but we can come to that

3:13:50uh issue when we come to it. So those

3:13:53are my comments. Uh next I see Mr.

3:13:55Presfordia on postponement.

3:13:57>> Yeah. So I just have a few questions I

3:14:00think that would might maybe help me. Um

3:14:02it says in here however the package of

3:14:04negotiated terms offered by the three

3:14:06agreements remains favorable to the

3:14:08municipality. So the the remains

3:14:11favorable the you're saying that there

3:14:13are there were no substantive changes

3:14:15from the previous version. Is that is

3:14:17that correct or or no what you would

3:14:20consider material changes?

3:14:22>> That is correct. So the versions that

3:14:23the assembly approved uh almost a year

3:14:25ago uh have not been substantially

3:14:28changed. We have done some minor

3:14:30refining on the effective date of these.

3:14:31So once they are authorized and executed

3:14:34um we have done some refining with the

3:14:36with Chuguet and MEA on exactly when

3:14:37they would go into effect. Um and one of

3:14:39the things that we have been working out

3:14:41is like by the time any construction

3:14:43starts they have to be in effect right

3:14:46we want the water supply agreement to be

3:14:48in effect by the time anything out at

3:14:50that affects AWU is touched. So the and

3:14:53we have put in some additional

3:14:54flexibility actually for AWU uh to

3:14:56further protect its infrastructure. But

3:14:58in terms of material terms they have not

3:15:00changed. we have made some additional

3:15:02flexibility that can be invoked at AW's

3:15:05request and only at AU's request. Um and

3:15:07again Allison Lang is here and can speak

3:15:10in more detail to the importance for AU

3:15:12if someone

3:15:14>> primarily in terms of timing and dates

3:15:16nothing in terms of the the the rights

3:15:19of of I that the party have changed.

3:15:22>> No.

3:15:23>> Okay. Um and then the second question I

3:15:25have is just so I understand this if the

3:15:27pump storage hydro power alternative is

3:15:29selected these agreements would not

3:15:31become effective. But if the pump

3:15:33storage hydro is selected then the fish

3:15:35and wildlife and proceed to make that

3:15:37that that these are so that one one

3:15:39question is why why would these why

3:15:42would these become not effective if they

3:15:45chose the first choice

3:15:48>> uh through the chair. So currently there

3:15:51is essentially what I'll call plan A for

3:15:53the fish and wildlife plan and that is

3:15:55the the program that was approved by the

3:15:56governor but the governor approved it

3:15:57with a condition of you should also

3:15:59study pump storage hydropower and if

3:16:01pump storage hydropower is going to go

3:16:03is you know promising and I approve it

3:16:05then that we'll do that one instead. So

3:16:07that I'll call it plan A and plan B. So

3:16:09right now uh these are all these

3:16:11agreements were designed and negotiated

3:16:13as a package to effectuate plan A. But

3:16:15if plan B is selected, which would

3:16:17happen in about next fall, I think

3:16:19October 2027 is the date for the

3:16:21governor to make a final decision if it

3:16:23goes before him. Um, if plan B is

3:16:26ultimately selected, these agreements

3:16:28would go away because they would be have

3:16:29been negotiated to affectuate a plan

3:16:31that is no longer moving forward. So if

3:16:33plan B is selected, pump store hydra

3:16:34power, we would then negotiate a new set

3:16:36of agreements. And so these agreements

3:16:38have a provision uh saying, hey, if

3:16:40pumps tyra goes forward, we hit the

3:16:42brakes on these and we go negotiate

3:16:43something new.

3:16:44That makes sense. So that last question

3:16:47you say in here and the piece that I'm

3:16:48struggling with is is that this is

3:16:50really short and there's not a lot of de

3:16:52detail in here, but the the it says that

3:16:55um um it says that um the if the fish

3:16:59and and wildlife program proceeds to

3:17:01make use of AW's infrastructure, these

3:17:04are good terms for the municipality. Can

3:17:06you give me more information about why

3:17:07these would be good terms?

3:17:09>> Sure. And for that I would ask that we

3:17:11call up our AWU expert uh if that is

3:17:15okay.

3:17:17>> Maybe give us some examples of what

3:17:19>> what the terms are and why they would be

3:17:21good for us.

3:17:25>> Yes. Hi everyone. Allison Lang,

3:17:28assistant general manager at AWW.

3:17:31Um, first and foremost, one term that's

3:17:33really favorable to AWW and the

3:17:37municipality and our rate payers is that

3:17:39in 2015,

3:17:41AWU would gain priority water rights

3:17:45right now. So, we would actually own our

3:17:47water rights, which is a valuable asset

3:17:51uh to our operations. Uh right now we

3:17:54have a priority use permit but we have

3:17:57to pay the hydro owners for our water.

3:18:00Owning that water eliminates an expense

3:18:03that right now all our rate payers pay

3:18:06and it also gives us just more the

3:18:10flexibility and privileges that come

3:18:12with ownership. Um

3:18:16these agreements um are also favorable

3:18:20because in multiple places they give AWO

3:18:23opportunities to

3:18:26weigh in on impacts to our

3:18:28infrastructure. There are going to be

3:18:30whether we end up with pump storage

3:18:32hydro or the portal valve. Just having

3:18:35water back in the Alutna River is a

3:18:38major change or difference from how AWU

3:18:41has operated

3:18:43for decades. Um

3:18:46so these give us opportunities to weigh

3:18:49in on engineering design safety. as

3:18:53municipal attorney Gardner mentioned,

3:18:55one of the small changes is act that

3:18:57we've made in the last few months is

3:18:59building in more flexibility around

3:19:02bridges and crossings in a way that

3:19:04favors us at AW and lets us better

3:19:07protect critical infrastructure.

3:19:09>> Okay, just just one last question then

3:19:11I'll I'll se the floor. Um um throughout

3:19:14this process we have worked um tand in

3:19:16tandem with an native village of of a

3:19:18clutna. Can you speak to us about their

3:19:21role in in this agreement and whether

3:19:23they were consulted and and whether they

3:19:25they've had a chance to to review this?

3:19:28>> Thank you. Through the chair, so this

3:19:30particular round of it, no, but there

3:19:32was a meeting uh prior to when they came

3:19:35before the assembly last December um

3:19:38with the administration and perhaps some

3:19:40assembly members. I'm a little fuzzy on

3:19:42the details of exactly who was in

3:19:43attendance. Um but at the time the

3:19:46position of the native village of Lutna

3:19:48was if you know prioritization of

3:19:51getting fish actually in the river um

3:19:53but also if this is the path that needs

3:19:55to move forward this path can move

3:19:56forward and they did you know make clear

3:19:59that this is an acceptable path to move

3:20:00forward if that's what needs to move

3:20:02forward. So in this most recent round

3:20:04were not reconsulted but prior the prior

3:20:06version before it had the conditions

3:20:09attached to it um which were added

3:20:11during the assembly process but not

3:20:12before submission to the assembly then

3:20:14they were okay with it.

3:20:16>> Okay then then thank you.

3:20:20>> Okay. Um so I've got a couple folks who

3:20:22have already spoken in postponement. Um

3:20:24Miss Scout you have not spoken in

3:20:25postponement so I'm going to go to you

3:20:26first and then I'll come back through

3:20:27the queue.

3:20:30Um,

3:20:32I'm not speaking to the postponement

3:20:35directly, so I'm happy to.

3:20:36>> Okay. Yeah, if you want to put yourself

3:20:38if you put yourself back in the queue,

3:20:39then I'll I won't click you out of

3:20:40there. Okay. Next, Mr. Handeland,

3:20:43>> I can uh resend my motion here to

3:20:45postpone. We've been kind of getting

3:20:47into the discussion. Um, [clears throat]

3:20:49thus far, it sounds like members want to

3:20:52vote on this uh today. So, I'll resend

3:20:54my motion.

3:20:57>> Okay. So, uh, the motion to postpone

3:20:59then has been withdrawn. So, we're back

3:21:01now on the, um, underlying motion, which

3:21:04was the motion to approve. And then I'll

3:21:06check again. Uh, Miss Park, did you want

3:21:07to speak to it?

3:21:08>> Thank you. Um, just to clarify, uh, Miss

3:21:11Gardner, what I think I'm hearing when

3:21:13when we're told that the situation

3:21:16remains favorable, uh, for the MUN, but

3:21:20that there are, um, issues of trust,

3:21:23that makes me think perhaps that status

3:21:25of being favorable is fluid. And, um, is

3:21:30that is that what I'm hearing from you?

3:21:33>> Uh, through the chair, not exactly. Uh I

3:21:36think the the remain favorable language

3:21:38means even with the condition lifted,

3:21:40even without the condition that the

3:21:41assembly had put on this of requiring

3:21:44cooperation from Chugash and MA in our

3:21:46pending litig litigation on voting

3:21:48rights, even without that, this is a

3:21:50favorable deal for the municipality. Um

3:21:53trust is if these are approved and

3:21:55executed, trust is less of an issue uh

3:21:57because we will then have a contractual

3:21:59relationship and the terms will have

3:22:01been set.

3:22:02>> Thank you.

3:22:11Okay, sorry. Uh, next, uh, Miss Scout,

3:22:13go ahead.

3:22:14>> Yeah, just quickly, I wanted to put a

3:22:17finer point on this based on the

3:22:20discussion we've had. Um my

3:22:23understanding of the main change here is

3:22:26that we have lost the negotiation power

3:22:30about voting rights um with two gadget

3:22:33and MEA

3:22:35but we are very vigorously pursuing that

3:22:39in litigation. And so it's really just

3:22:41we're still fighting for this. we're

3:22:43just taking it out of this specific

3:22:46um document

3:22:48so that we can move forward

3:22:50[clears throat] on the connection and

3:22:51not say it's contingent, not make it

3:22:54contingent on something we're pursuing

3:22:56in court as well. And so I think again

3:22:59um we're getting to the same objectives

3:23:02here just in different routes.

3:23:06And I would be happy I would I will put

3:23:09this plan to put this on um the agenda

3:23:12for the upcoming energy committee

3:23:15meeting and um

3:23:17we can revisit it I believe then.

3:23:23>> Okay. Next, Mr. Handlewind.

3:23:25>> Yeah, thanks. So yeah, my my question

3:23:27was kind of on the the voting rights and

3:23:28that was kind of my

3:23:31main kind of hangup with this. And so

3:23:33I've got um a question for Eva um

3:23:40with this with our with the voting

3:23:42rights. I know that that looks like that

3:23:44that's still going through a continued

3:23:45appeal. And so whether we pass this or

3:23:49um which because it sounds like we're

3:23:50we're stripping that portion out. We're

3:23:52not, I guess, seeding our um I guess

3:23:56assertion that that that we we as a

3:23:59municipality still feel that we have

3:24:00have voting rights with this. Correct.

3:24:04>> Through the chair. Yes, that's correct.

3:24:05So, at the time this originally came or

3:24:072025 came before the assembly, we were

3:24:10in litigation before the regulatory

3:24:11commission of Alaska on the voting

3:24:13rights issue. We had filed to regain our

3:24:15voting rights. Um and the condition was

3:24:17placed on to try to convince uh and

3:24:20leverage uh these agreements to have

3:24:22Chuket and MA support our voting rights

3:24:24application and they declined to do

3:24:26that. Uh we lost before the RCA. We

3:24:28moved to reconsideration and then we

3:24:30appealed we consolidated with our

3:24:32previous effort to regain voting rights.

3:24:33So we now have two consolidated appeals

3:24:35from the regulatory commission of Alaska

3:24:37on appeal to uh Alaska Superior Court.

3:24:40Those are going full steam ahead. This

3:24:42does not change that. It just recognizes

3:24:44that again this is a good deal for the

3:24:46municipality um especially for AWU and

3:24:48the and the water supply and managing um

3:24:51the impacts of the project on IU's

3:24:53infrastructure. Uh and so there is no

3:24:55reason not to go forward with it

3:24:57separate from the voting rights issue

3:24:59because at this point the condition the

3:25:01assembly had placed on the agreements

3:25:02previously has become obsolete. There is

3:25:04no procedural mechanism for Chugat and

3:25:07MA to go before the regulatory

3:25:08commission of Alaska and support our

3:25:09voting rights application. that you know

3:25:12situation has expired and morphed into

3:25:14an appeal but we are fully intending to

3:25:16continue pursuing the voting rights

3:25:17through appeal in the superior court and

3:25:18the Alaska Supreme Court if necessary.

3:25:21>> Okay. And then uh just follow-up

3:25:23question and if you don't want to answer

3:25:24it because you don't want it in a public

3:25:26setting uh feel free but I guess what is

3:25:29I guess the assertion from the other

3:25:30side on why they feel that the

3:25:32municipality should not have these

3:25:35voting rights

3:25:37>> through the chair that is a a

3:25:39complicated there's a some complicated

3:25:41answers uh and I would say we've seen a

3:25:44range of arguments I think that the one

3:25:46that is that is currently leading in the

3:25:47issue that we lost on before the

3:25:49regulatory commission is that the RCA A

3:25:51found that at the time the municipality

3:25:54surrendered its voting rights at the

3:25:55time of the MLMP sale that it did so for

3:25:57a minimum term of 35 years. Um and we

3:26:01are appealing on Chash MA supported uh

3:26:04that interpretation which was not the

3:26:06understanding of anyone involved at the

3:26:07time. We have some of them in the room

3:26:09here. Um but we appealed because that is

3:26:13an in we believe that's an incorrect

3:26:15interpretation of the original

3:26:17surrender. Um and I will say after we

3:26:19appealed there was a dissenting opinion

3:26:20from two of the five commissioners that

3:26:22supported our view. So we are in a you

3:26:25know as good a position as we could be

3:26:26on appeal having lost before the RCA. Um

3:26:29but it's a disagreement over the terms

3:26:30of the original surrender of the voting

3:26:32rights which was done as a condition of

3:26:33the MLNP sale because at the time we

3:26:35didn't have a qualified operator running

3:26:37Anchorage Hydropower Utility.

3:26:39>> Okay. Thank you.

3:26:41>> Which is why it's 2000.

3:26:43>> Okay. I don't see anyone else in the

3:26:45queue. Um and then again I will say

3:26:47regardless of the outcome of this vote

3:26:48um uh it sounds like we'll have

3:26:51discussion about this at a committee

3:26:52meeting and then if there is desire to

3:26:54have a work session or if we need to be

3:26:56briefed in executive session on legal

3:26:58matters then um I will certainly

3:27:00schedule that as needed. Uh so with that

3:27:02um members may proceed to vote and how

3:27:05does the youth representative vote?

3:27:09>> Yes.

3:27:13>> Yeah. Sorry. Uh so just for clarity,

3:27:14this is the motion to approve AO

3:27:162026135.

3:27:18Uh the motion to postpone was rescended.

3:27:20So this is the underlying motion.

3:27:23Okay. And I'm seeing a yes. Is that

3:27:25correct? Okay. Youth member votes yes

3:27:31on a vote of 12 to zero. Item uh AO 2020

3:27:356135 passes the body unanimously. And as

3:27:38noted um expect this general discussion

3:27:40or this topic to come up at future uh

3:27:43meetings and or work sessions. Um so

3:27:45next we will move on to item 15A and um

3:27:50I will note briefly that because this is

3:27:52an alcohol alcohol or marijuana item um

3:27:54we will ask the youth representative to

3:27:56briefly step away but because we aren't

3:27:57done with our business um and it is not

3:27:59quite late enough um then you can come

3:28:01back. So if you want to just wait in the

3:28:02hall. Thank you. Um okay so uh we will

3:28:07be opening the hearing. So this is

3:28:08AR2026293,

3:28:10a resolution of the Anchorage Municipal

3:28:12Assembly stating its conditional protest

3:28:13regarding the transfer of ownership of

3:28:15package store licenses 264 660 239 or

3:28:19sorry 2386 and 3793 for Circle Circle K

3:28:23stores Inc. DBA Circle K. Public hearing

3:28:25on this item is now open. Please come

3:28:27forward if you wish to testify.

3:28:30Anyone at all?

3:28:33Seeing and hearing none, public hearing

3:28:34on this item is now closed. What's the

3:28:36will of the body?

3:28:38Move to approve.

3:28:39>> Second.

3:28:40>> Motion to approve by Miss Scout, second

3:28:42by Mr. Perezia. Miss Scout, would you

3:28:44like to speak to it?

3:28:46>> No.

3:28:48>> Okay. Um I'm uh Miss Baldwin Day, go

3:28:50ahead.

3:28:52>> Um thank you. I I do have um

3:28:56I think a related question. And I I I

3:28:58understand that there's been uh some

3:29:01pretty significant public concern about

3:29:04a variety of Circle K locations and um

3:29:09the fashion in which they are conducting

3:29:11business and how some of that is

3:29:13potentially contributing to um

3:29:15problematic behavior on the part of some

3:29:17of our residents. And I'm I'm curious if

3:29:20there have been any conversations or

3:29:21discussions uh among you know members or

3:29:24uh representatives from the

3:29:26administration and uh circle K

3:29:28leadership or holiday leadership uh

3:29:31about some of those public concerns. I

3:29:33think that's germanine to this item.

3:29:37>> Okay. I'll invite um someone for the

3:29:39administration to speak to this and then

3:29:41um I would also note um so just for

3:29:43everyone's reference there is a on the

3:29:45actual resolution there is the list of

3:29:47four licenses and their locations. So u

3:29:49Mr. Dole maybe you could also specify if

3:29:52your discussions were relating to any of

3:29:53those locations just for clarity. Thank

3:29:55you. through the chair in uh

3:29:58collaboration with member park. There

3:30:00have been ongoing uh me meetings with

3:30:02Circle K about conditions at some of

3:30:05their um stores. The four on this

3:30:08application have not been those that

3:30:10have created issues that needed to be

3:30:12addressed in those meetings. We have had

3:30:14constructive discussions with them at

3:30:16addressing the issues at other ones. So

3:30:18at the corporate level,

3:30:21[snorts]

3:30:21>> thank you. Yeah, that's that's good

3:30:23news. I understand that each store has

3:30:25been operating with slightly different

3:30:27parameters depending on their management

3:30:28and leadership and so I'm I'm grateful

3:30:30to hear that those conversations are

3:30:31happening. Thank you.

3:30:33>> Thanks. And I have myself in the queue

3:30:34briefly,

3:30:35>> Miss Broly.

3:30:36>> Thank you. Um yeah, and I I was

3:30:38certainly also concerned when I saw this

3:30:40item wondering where the locations were

3:30:42um given these other discussions and I

3:30:43really appreciate the followup and and

3:30:46work um from my colleagues and uh or

3:30:48colleague at least and administration.

3:30:50Um, one thing I'll also note here, this

3:30:53is a conditional protest. So, it's a

3:30:55statement to the state of Alaska Alcohol

3:30:57and Marijuana Control Board regarding

3:30:59transfer of ownership and and those are

3:31:01I I can't speak to this particular

3:31:02item's transfer of ownership. Um, it

3:31:04doesn't mean that the location is

3:31:07changing. It doesn't mean that it's it's

3:31:08selling um or at least if it's it's um

3:31:11in this particular case, it's not a full

3:31:13sale. And uh there are certain

3:31:15requirements in state statute um and in

3:31:17our code regarding um having to go

3:31:19through this whole process when you do

3:31:21an ownership change. And so these are

3:31:22not uncommon to see. Um so just to note

3:31:25that as well. Um and there's opening a

3:31:27new license, transferring a location or

3:31:29selling a license. There's other things

3:31:31that that often trigger a lot more

3:31:32discussion or that can trigger

3:31:33operational changes. So I just wanted to

3:31:35note for members in the public um that

3:31:37these things can be arcane to read. Um

3:31:40but when you see transfer of ownership

3:31:41and conditional protest um often these

3:31:43are really more I guess an elaborate

3:31:46version of paperwork um unless they are

3:31:47fully selling ownership. So just for

3:31:49everyone's clarity. Thank you. And next

3:31:51I see Miss Park in the queue.

3:31:53>> Thank you chair. Um I guess to Mr. Dole

3:31:56or Miss Gardner, do we know what are the

3:31:59nature of the uh incidents or violations

3:32:02that led to um or gave rise to the

3:32:05conditional protest?

3:32:11to the chair Abdul. We do not know what

3:32:14gave rise to the conditional protest at

3:32:16these locations,

3:32:20>> but again, they're different locations

3:32:22than the ones we've been discussing.

3:32:24>> So, the chair, these are Bob Dole again,

3:32:26these are different locations than we

3:32:28have been engaged with with Circle K.

3:32:31>> Thank you.

3:32:34Um, I could be wrong here, but my read

3:32:38of this, um, when I was looking at this

3:32:40yesterday is that they need a

3:32:43certification from the Anchorage Fire

3:32:45Department. They need an inspection.

3:32:47>> Oh, yeah. Sorry. Um, sorry, let me

3:32:49briefly recognize uh, Miss Park had the

3:32:51floor and then I think Oh, no, it's

3:32:52okay. Um, and then I was also going to

3:32:54ask the clerk to speak to um, this

3:32:56because this is an item, a type of item

3:32:57where licenses are dealt with by the

3:32:59clerk's office. And so um the

3:33:02discussions with circle k and the

3:33:03administration but I'm going to defer to

3:33:05the clerk miss hines to describe um kind

3:33:07of the nature of this conditional

3:33:08protest.

3:33:10>> Thank you through the chair. Um certain

3:33:13um certifications are required for these

3:33:16through the administration. Um we get

3:33:20certification from the fire department

3:33:23um on their layout. uh whether or not

3:33:27they have a special land use permit in

3:33:28place, whether their taxes have been

3:33:30paid,

3:33:32um that land use enforcement and

3:33:34Anchorage Health Department and

3:33:36Anchorage Police Department have um

3:33:39signed off. And um in this particular

3:33:42case, the certification had not been

3:33:44received from the fire department as of

3:33:47the date that we had to have this

3:33:49submitted to the agenda. And so, um,

3:33:52this conditional protest, um, holds this

3:33:56in a conditional protest pattern until

3:33:59we receive that from the fire

3:34:00department. And then once we get that

3:34:02from the fire department, I have the

3:34:04authority in section three to um,

3:34:08release the conditional protest and let

3:34:11it move forward. And um very often we

3:34:16get the final items from the time that

3:34:19the packet is published until the

3:34:22tomorrow. So she ultimately will

3:34:24probably tomorrow send a letter to AMCO

3:34:28um letting them know that we approve of

3:34:30the

3:34:32transfers.

3:34:36>> Okay. Any further question, Miss

3:34:38Galllet?

3:34:40Okay. Uh, Miss Park.

3:34:43>> Thank you to Madame Clerk. I guess is

3:34:46this the type of um action that could be

3:34:49postponed to a time certain

3:34:55>> postponing this? So, we have 60 days

3:34:57from the date of um receipt from AMCO.

3:35:01So, we received these applications on

3:35:03August 31st. Um, and so the last day

3:35:06that you guys have to file a protest is

3:35:08October 30th. Um and so this is the last

3:35:11meeting before that. If they do not

3:35:13receive anything from us, then we

3:35:15essentially wave wave our right to

3:35:19comment on it.

3:35:21>> Thank you.

3:35:26>> Thank you. Yeah, I'll just note these

3:35:27are um anything really regarding state

3:35:29licensing has its own timeline that

3:35:31we're um participating in versus our

3:35:33local licensing. Uh okay, I don't see

3:35:36anyone else in the queue. So members may

3:35:37proceed to vote and then I'll note the

3:35:39youth representative is out of the room.

3:35:40So I'm not asking for their vote at this

3:35:41time.

3:36:02Okay. Okay. On a vote of 12 to zero,

3:36:03AR2026293

3:36:05passes the body unanimously. So, um,

3:36:08next we are going to roll up to our

3:36:10agenda. So, I will also note um I know

3:36:12we've got a whole stack of amendments

3:36:14for item 11B. So, my intent right now is

3:36:17to um uh there's a little bit of

3:36:20business to deal with 11A that we can

3:36:22explain shortly. So, I'm going to

3:36:23suggest that we uh take care of 11A and

3:36:26again we'll speak to it shortly. Um I

3:36:30guess the very short version is we we

3:36:31need to reopen the public hearing. So

3:36:32we'll get to why that is. So so if

3:36:34there's any expectation we're voting on

3:36:35that tonight. Um that's not really

3:36:37possible. We'll get to that in a second.

3:36:39Um and then after that we were going to

3:36:40take a few minutes break so folks can

3:36:42step uh step away look at amendments um

3:36:44because I know that once we move into uh

3:36:46the debate uh there's a lot of things to

3:36:48digest. So that is the plan as of right

3:36:50now. Um and so that also means we have

3:36:52gotten through uh all but one of our

3:36:54public hearing items. So everything else

3:36:55uh in the 11s is a closed public hearing

3:36:58at this point. So uh next let us move to

3:37:01item 11 A that is AO 202693 an ordinance

3:37:05of the Anchorage assembly enacting

3:37:06Anchorage Municipal Code Chapter 1200

3:37:09Tax Incentives for mixeduse multi-unit

3:37:11housing. Uh before I open the public

3:37:13hearing I'm going to read um I believe

3:37:15it's probably on the printer so it will

3:37:16get to us shortly but I'll read the

3:37:18title into the record because it's in

3:37:19our email. There is an S1 version being

3:37:22laid on the table. It is supplemental.

3:37:24So I will just read that's AO 2022693S1

3:37:27an ordinance to the Anchorage Assembly

3:37:28amending Anchorage CH uh sorry Anchorage

3:37:31Municipal Code Title 12 to enact a new

3:37:34chapter 12.100 provide tax incentives

3:37:36for mixeduse multi-unit housing and to

3:37:38clarify or modify other existing tax

3:37:40exemptions for housing and residential

3:37:42units in multif family or mixeduse

3:37:44properties. So um that title has been

3:37:46read into the record. I will note that

3:37:48is a substantive change in the title. Uh

3:37:50so I'm going to uh so that there is no

3:37:52public hearing. I'm going to turn to Mr.

3:37:54Volant.

3:37:54>> Thank you, Madam Chair. Move to reopen

3:37:56the public hearing and set it for the

3:37:58regular meeting of November 17th.

3:38:01>> Second. Okay. Motion by Mr. Volant to

3:38:03reopen the public hearing on this item

3:38:05with its associated sersions and set

3:38:07that public hearing for the regular

3:38:08meeting of November 17th. Second by Miss

3:38:11Baldwin Day. Do you want to speak to it

3:38:12further?

3:38:13>> Sure. I'll just say this was at the

3:38:14request of the administration. Um, and

3:38:16as you described, there's there's a a

3:38:18substantive title change on this newest

3:38:21version that has come forward. Um,

3:38:24there's also um between some of the

3:38:26versions, the way that they touch code

3:38:29um a significant enough difference

3:38:31between the versions um that uh there is

3:38:34a need to reopen the public hearing as

3:38:36you've stated. Thank you.

3:38:38>> Thank you. Uh Mr. Hendeland.

3:38:40>> Yeah. Um I was just wondering if there

3:38:42is a planned work session at all for

3:38:45this uh in the future.

3:38:49>> Uh thank you. There to my knowledge

3:38:51there is not one scheduled. Um so there

3:38:53so that certainly if we go until the

3:38:5517th um there's certainly time to make

3:38:58to make room for that um including on

3:39:00November 6th which is a assembly work

3:39:02session on budget but does not take the

3:39:04entire time. Another option uh is to

3:39:06discuss this at a committee meeting but

3:39:08either way um there is not something

3:39:10scheduled but this would allow time to

3:39:11get it scheduled

3:39:14and uh Miss Baldwin Day.

3:39:16>> Yeah, thank you. Um so I uh apart from

3:39:19the changes that my colleagues see in

3:39:22the the S version, the S1 version uh

3:39:25also applies this um this exemption to

3:39:31uh properties that are developed in

3:39:33mixed use that are rentals as opposed to

3:39:36ownership models. And uh that again

3:39:39touches a different part of code which

3:39:40necessitates a a change in reopening the

3:39:43public hearing. Um I'm uh curious if um

3:39:49my colleague is interested in a work

3:39:51session that would focus specifically on

3:39:53that or if there is another piece of the

3:39:54S version that um they're hoping will be

3:39:57addressed in a work session format or in

3:39:59committee.

3:40:01>> Thanks. And I think that was a question

3:40:02for Mr. Handelin. So if you have a

3:40:04specific um items or just in general.

3:40:06>> No, I was just kind of curious just

3:40:08schedule-wise.

3:40:10>> Okay. Thank you. Um any further

3:40:12discussion? or Miss Baldick.

3:40:14>> Uh yeah, I I think I just wanted to

3:40:16understand if um if there was a a

3:40:18specific set of questions or if a a work

3:40:20session format or a committee format was

3:40:22the the most effective way to deal with

3:40:25member questions or if there was another

3:40:27potentially more expedient and less

3:40:29timeconuming way to get that done.

3:40:32Happy to hear comments from others.

3:40:39Okay. Um, so, uh,

3:40:43sorry, I lost my train of thought for a

3:40:45second. Um, so I'll also note just for

3:40:46the record to be clear, so there's this

3:40:48new version that is expanding, um, some

3:40:50pieces, but regard even if the new

3:40:52version, uh, well, I should say even if

3:40:54we had not had a new version and there

3:40:56was only an S version, we still would

3:40:57have been required to reopen the

3:40:59hearing. There was a technical error in

3:41:00the S version that we didn't catch back

3:41:02in September. And so that's why um, so

3:41:05either way, I think certainly

3:41:06opportunities to discuss this in future.

3:41:08can talk offline about what that would

3:41:09look like in terms of format. As the

3:41:11chair, I'm always happy to direct things

3:41:13to committee if it's not a work session.

3:41:14So, um, okay. Any further discussion on

3:41:18this?

3:41:19Okay. Then I will ask, is there any

3:41:21objection? Oh, sorry. Um, Mr. Martinez,

3:41:23go ahead.

3:41:24>> Just make sure for the record, chair,

3:41:25that I think this is be a good

3:41:26conversation for the housing and

3:41:29community economic development committee

3:41:30for November 5th.

3:41:32>> Okay. Yeah, I think that is a great

3:41:33candidate. So, we will um I'll leave

3:41:35that to the committee chairs to

3:41:36schedule, but that seems like an

3:41:38acceptable time. And

3:41:46okay, sorry. So, uh then with all of

3:41:48that said, um is there any objection to

3:41:52this motion, which is to one reopen the

3:41:54public hearing and two set it to uh the

3:41:56meeting of November 17th?

3:42:00Okay. Seeing and hearing none, um then

3:42:02we will consider the public hearing on

3:42:04AO 2022693

3:42:06S uh original version SNS1 for the

3:42:09meeting of November 17th. And uh we will

3:42:12look at scheduling some time to discuss

3:42:13that in the meantime. So with that, um

3:42:16we will take a 10-minute break. It's

3:42:188:55, so we'll come back at 9:05. And

3:42:20I'll also remind members in the public,

3:42:22we have a number of amendments. They're

3:42:23in your email. I believe they're

3:42:24probably on the printer uh getting

3:42:26printed and so that'll give chance folks

3:42:28a chance to step away and take a look.

3:42:30Thank you.

3:42:42[music]

3:42:51>> [music]

3:42:57>> I remember dirt

3:43:01of our plants not going

3:43:03[singing and music] nowhere as fast as

3:43:06we can. I remember kisses from me

3:43:10for so long. Another storm

3:43:13[singing and music]

3:43:14coming and gone.

3:43:17Oh, the sun's leaving.

3:43:21What if I close my eyes and never happen

3:43:25now?

3:43:28Sun's [music] leaving.

3:43:31Oh, another summer coming [music] down.

3:43:36Do you ever think back, baby, when you

3:43:40were young and strong?

3:43:41>> [music]

3:43:41>> Do you ever think that maybe you're the

3:43:45one that's wrong? Do you believe in cry

3:43:49when you hear

3:43:52another song [music]

3:43:53coming?

3:43:56Do you ever think back, baby, when you

3:44:00were holding my Do you ever think that

3:44:03[music] maybe

3:44:04you

3:44:08cry when you hear your favorite song?

3:44:11Another [music] summer coming. Another

3:44:15summer coming.

3:44:21Another summer coming. Another summer

3:44:25[music] coming and gone.

3:44:31Another [music] summer coming.

3:44:45[music]

3:44:49This is

3:44:52[music]

3:45:08[music]

3:45:16done.

3:45:21I've been going

3:45:24for the silver line. Wish the stars

3:45:28would all align.

3:45:33I've been [music] cursing at the sky.

3:45:35[singing]

3:45:36Let the rain fall from my eyes. I've

3:45:39lived a thousand lives.

3:45:43>> You can't [singing] have my heart. You

3:45:46can't [music] hold my mind. I won't

3:45:50stay.

3:45:52I won't change.

3:45:55You can't have [music and singing] my

3:45:57heart. You can't hold my mind. I won't

3:46:02stay.

3:46:04I won't change. [music]

3:46:07Where's the ground?

3:46:10I keep falling [music and singing]

3:46:13off the edge.

3:46:19my ground

3:46:22[music] now [singing] heavy

3:46:27from you. Oh, you

3:46:31you're stronger than you think. Don't

3:46:33let these ston

3:46:38cuz you're four, five, six on

3:46:43your roof is your house in nobody else

3:46:49at fault.

3:46:51Think I did something bad. I did

3:46:53something

3:46:57[crying]

3:47:00owe me money.

3:47:41Okay, let's uh call ourselves back to

3:47:44order. Um so uh this we are moving on.

3:47:48We are on well I should say we have two

3:47:50items left on our agenda. Um the uh

3:47:53second item 13B we may or may not get to

3:47:55tonight. We'll we'll deal with that when

3:47:56we get there. Um but before that we will

3:47:59deal with um ordinance AO2026108.

3:48:03Um I'm going to read the title again and

3:48:06then I'm going to offer just a couple um

3:48:08orientation comments in terms of process

3:48:11and then we'll go from there. Uh so this

3:48:13is ordinance AO2026108

3:48:15an ordinance of the Anchorage Municipal

3:48:17Assembly repealing and replacing

3:48:18Anchorage Municipal Code Chapter 3.0 one

3:48:21sorry 102 and amending AMC

3:48:23section.17.15.040

3:48:2640 to clarify existing restrictions on

3:48:28exist surveillance technology and

3:48:30establish new restrictions on automated

3:48:31place license plate reader systems. I

3:48:34will note that there is a S version and

3:48:36an S1 version that makes substantial

3:48:38changes to that title. I'm not going to

3:48:40read those all into the record. Um there

3:48:42are also some um information memorandums

3:48:45and other items. Uh public hearing on

3:48:47this was closed. And then the other

3:48:49thing I will note just for folks uh in

3:48:51the public and for members um so we have

3:48:53as I said there's an S version and S1

3:48:56version there are also a number of

3:48:57amendments um and so those are available

3:49:00if you're in the room uh on paper they

3:49:03are uh at the front of the the clerk's

3:49:04office or the clerk's dis there and um

3:49:07so I'll just note that there is a

3:49:08package of them stapled and there is one

3:49:10additional amendment on its own just so

3:49:12that we're clear and then I'll also ask

3:49:14members um when you are moving

3:49:15amendments um to be clear which one you

3:49:19are referring to. So, please use the the

3:49:21last name or sponsor's names as well as

3:49:23the number just so that because there's

3:49:25a lot of them to keep track. And then

3:49:26the last thing I will say is just a

3:49:27reminder um that uh we do not have an

3:49:30infinite stack of amended uh amendment

3:49:34motions possible and so a motion to

3:49:36substitute with one version or another

3:49:38is also an amendment. It allows for

3:49:40additional amendment to the amendment of

3:49:41that but we cannot go deeper than that.

3:49:42So, just in terms of process, just

3:49:45reminding folks for that. Um, because I

3:49:46imagine this could get a little

3:49:47complicated. So, uh, with all of that

3:49:49said, as I said, the public hearing on

3:49:50this item is now closed. Um, there is,

3:49:54uh, one second.

3:49:57>> Correct.

3:49:58>> There is no motion on the floor. Uh, so

3:49:59what is the will of the body?

3:50:00>> Move the S version.

3:50:02>> Second.

3:50:04>> Um, I heard a motion by Mr. Bolan to

3:50:07move the S version, second by Miss. Is

3:50:09that correct?

3:50:10>> Okay. So there's a motion to move the S

3:50:12version, second by Miss Silvers, Mr.

3:50:13Boland.

3:50:15>> Thank you, Madam Chair. Um, so I think

3:50:19what we should do in the interest of

3:50:20time is get to some of these amendments.

3:50:23I will say, um, I believe all but one of

3:50:27these amendments was previewed at a work

3:50:30session that we had on proposed assembly

3:50:33member amendments to this item.

3:50:38Um, with that

3:50:42I am going to move

3:50:53Broly amendment number two.

3:50:56>> Second.

3:50:57>> Okay, there's a motion uh by Mr. Vent to

3:51:00move Broly amendment two. Second by Miss

3:51:02Scout. Mr. Volant,

3:51:04>> thank you. So this to me um

3:51:08is the most important amendment. Um and

3:51:13without it I don't think I can support

3:51:16the S version. I moved the S version

3:51:18because my my sense is that is the

3:51:20platform um that some of my colleagues

3:51:22prefer to work off of. Um and uh the

3:51:26mayor has stated that it's her

3:51:27preference as well. Um,

3:51:31I I do want to thank the municipal

3:51:33attorney for working with myself and and

3:51:37my co-sponsors on the original version,

3:51:39members McCormack and Scout. Um, I think

3:51:44we almost got to a a a place of uh

3:51:47agreement where we felt like we could

3:51:49endorse this S version, but there were a

3:51:51couple sticking points and this to me is

3:51:54really the one that I need to to be able

3:51:56to see um move forward um in order for

3:51:59me to support the underlying item. And

3:52:03that is the requirement that no no

3:52:05municipal agency may share surveillance

3:52:07data for a known purpose that would be

3:52:09prohibited if undertaken directly by the

3:52:11municipality under this chapter unless

3:52:13required by law, judicial warrant or

3:52:16court order.

3:52:17Um,

3:52:20I I have another amendment um later on

3:52:24that I will likely move um that ratchets

3:52:27that up a little bit and and requires a

3:52:30a uh a warrant a judicial warrant to

3:52:34even do um an ALPR search.

3:52:39Um, you know, I I really think um this

3:52:42one is an effort to strike that balance

3:52:46between public safety

3:52:50have letting law enforcement

3:52:53use a a tool that can be valuable, but

3:52:57preventing an unlawful search and

3:53:00seizure, preventing an abuse of um

3:53:05someone's constitutional right to

3:53:06privacy.

3:53:08Um there was a recent court case

3:53:12um United States

3:53:14uh versus Kyle

3:53:19and members um I think we'll have seen

3:53:22some information about this that I

3:53:24requested be circulated

3:53:26um via our alleged services team.

3:53:32But I I think essentially in that case

3:53:35um the a judge in the northern district

3:53:39of Oklahoma ruled this was on October

3:53:411st, 2026

3:53:43that law enforcement's warrant

3:53:45warrantless search of historical

3:53:48automated license plate reader data

3:53:50violated the fourth amendment.

3:53:53What happened is that a a Tulsa County

3:53:55Deputy Sheriff ran an outofstate license

3:53:57plate on

3:54:00Melissa Susan Kyle's SUV through ALPR

3:54:05networks. Um,

3:54:08that single query generated more than 50

3:54:10location sightings that tracked Miss

3:54:13Kyle's movements across multiple states

3:54:15over a 30-day period.

3:54:20The judge suppressed the resulting

3:54:21evidence

3:54:23describing the multi-week, multi-state

3:54:25digital reconstruction of travel history

3:54:27as a form of indiscriminate mass

3:54:29surveillance

3:54:31that breached a reasonable expectation

3:54:33of privacy.

3:54:36Um, so

3:54:39the the other thing the sort of

3:54:41interesting layer to this uh case is

3:54:44that it was a drug trafficking case. And

3:54:46I I think we've heard the mayor say, you

3:54:48know, um we need to be able to have law

3:54:51enforcement order.

3:54:54>> What's your point of order, Mr.

3:54:55President?

3:54:56>> I'm I'm struggling to understand where

3:54:57this is going related to the the motion.

3:55:01Can you help us bring this back to what?

3:55:03Yeah. The amendment to to

3:55:04>> It requires a warrant.

3:55:06>> Yeah.

3:55:06>> Okay. So, yeah,

3:55:07>> it's it's a long story. I'm I'm I'm

3:55:09losing you. So, I'm just trying to

3:55:10understand what the point is. I'm

3:55:12speaking to a recent court case that

3:55:15found that

3:55:17um using ALPR surveillance violated

3:55:22constitutional rights to privacy and

3:55:24Okay. And so this amendment

3:55:28um would require

3:55:32um would have a um a prerequisite

3:55:35that in order for the mun municipality

3:55:38to share surveillance data

3:55:41that there be a judicial warrant or

3:55:42unless required by law or court order.

3:55:45And so, and the reason I I think this is

3:55:48important is because the other layer to

3:55:51that court case um is that that drug

3:55:55trafficking case uh was not able to move

3:55:58forward. that evidence was actually not

3:56:00able to be used despite the fact that

3:56:03they found they they used that AOPR um

3:56:07search to find that this

3:56:12Miss Kyle was in possession of meth. And

3:56:17so

3:56:18I think without a warrant there are

3:56:20there are multiple pitfalls that the

3:56:22municipality

3:56:24may fall into. One is violating

3:56:28someone's constitutional right to

3:56:29privacy.

3:56:31Another would be um litigation and and

3:56:36potentially expense incurred um by the

3:56:39municipality as part of that litigation.

3:56:41The third is that this is an example of

3:56:44where actually what may happen someone

3:56:47does commit a crime but you do a search

3:56:50without a warrant and then that evidence

3:56:52is not able to be used. So not having

3:56:59a clear purpose for utilizing this

3:57:02technology can actually be detrimental

3:57:04to the public safety goals of the

3:57:08municipality and it may actually result

3:57:10in people who did a crime walking free.

3:57:17So all that to say um I hope that we can

3:57:20support this amendment. Um, you know,

3:57:23some of the other ones I think we can

3:57:24have discussion on and if you know they

3:57:26don't pass, they don't pass. But I think

3:57:28this is really important in in

3:57:30protecting both the municipality

3:57:33and um the the rights of our residents.

3:57:36Thank you.

3:57:38>> Thanks. And I'll note um I'm going to

3:57:39run through the queue if you intend to

3:57:41stay in for the main um then I won't

3:57:43click you out of there. But uh Mr.

3:57:44Handling on the amendment.

3:57:46>> Yeah. Just a question to the

3:57:47administration uh on this. Uh sounds

3:57:51like this was discussed between you and

3:57:53the uh sponsors of the S or the the

3:57:55original version there. Is there what is

3:57:57the I guess reason why you guys chose

3:57:59not to include this in your guys's

3:58:02version?

3:58:03>> Uh through the chair. Thank you for the

3:58:05question. This precise amendment

3:58:06actually was not discussed in that

3:58:08original conversation. This is an

3:58:09amendment that was put forth by member

3:58:11Broly uh at the work session last week.

3:58:14And what this does is clarify um the S

3:58:17version has it se multiple circumstances

3:58:20where it says you can't share you know

3:58:22APD you can't share data with another a

3:58:24you know with anyone except in these

3:58:26limited circumstances unless you have a

3:58:28duty to do it by law unless required by

3:58:29law uh warrant or court order. And this

3:58:33makes a good edit to that and actually

3:58:35just adds the word judicial before the

3:58:36word warrant to make clear that the

3:58:38warrant has to be one from a court. Um

3:58:40not just you know any warrant from you

3:58:41know uh like the EPA an administrative

3:58:44warrant from the EPA for example. Um so

3:58:46really making clear it's like you have

3:58:48to have a real legal like courtordered

3:58:50obligation um to sh before you share

3:58:53this data for other purposes that we

3:58:54don't otherwise approve just to clarify

3:58:56the strength of legal obligation. So

3:58:58this amendment is one that that we do

3:58:59support.

3:59:00>> Okay that was my next question. So you

3:59:03could there there's no objection from

3:59:04from the administration on this.

3:59:06>> Uh no, this is

3:59:08>> okay. Thanks. I I would urge my

3:59:09colleagues in supporting it as well

3:59:11then.

3:59:12>> Thanks. Uh next, Miss Silver is on the

3:59:13amendment.

3:59:16>> Yeah, I was just going to say I would

3:59:17consider this one a friendly amendment

3:59:19and would um welcome your support. Thank

3:59:21you.

3:59:24>> Okay. Um and I don't see anyone else in

3:59:26the queue on the amendment, so members

3:59:28may proceed to vote.

3:59:31Oh, sorry. In the youth representative

3:59:33votes and this is again on amendment

3:59:34broadly amendment two.

3:59:37>> Yes.

3:59:53Okay. On a vote of 12 to zero uh that

3:59:55amend broadly amendment two passes

3:59:57unanimously.

4:00:13Sorry, one second. I need to confer with

4:00:14the

4:00:46Okay, sorry. We're confirming about

4:00:48order of speaking. Um, uh, next I have

4:00:50in the queue, Mr. Volunt.

4:00:59Okay. Yeah, I think um, so what we're

4:01:01conferring about just for clarity is um,

4:01:03you know, we have the general rule that

4:01:05members can speak twice to each item. I

4:01:07know there's a number of amendments um

4:01:08some of which are are sponsored by

4:01:10multiple folks. So um

4:01:18>> sorry one second.

4:01:35>> Okay. Sorry. So, just for clarity, um,

4:01:36we're making sure there's a distinction

4:01:38between speaking to something

4:01:39substantively versus making a motion.

4:01:41And so, uh, just Okay. Sorry. So, back

4:01:43to Mr. Volunt.

4:01:45>> Yes. Thank you, chair, for that

4:01:46clarification. Um, I move,

4:01:50uh, amendment number four in the packet

4:01:53from myself and members McCormack and

4:01:56Scout.

4:01:58>> Okay. There's a motion to move amendment

4:02:00number four. Uh, that is one by uh,

4:02:02McCormack, uh, the London Scout. Uh, is

4:02:05there a second to that motion?

4:02:08>> Folks are to it.

4:02:09>> Second by Miss Scout. Uh, please

4:02:11proceed, Mr. Bowen.

4:02:12>> Thank you, Madam Chair. So, this one um

4:02:14just removes some language uh in the S

4:02:17version

4:02:19um regarding a suspension of use. Um, in

4:02:24the in the

4:02:26S version,

4:02:28the municipal municipal agency has to

4:02:31have had knowingly, materially, and

4:02:35consistently violated

4:02:38uh this chapter.

4:02:41Um, dot dot dot or failed to take

4:02:44reasonable remedial action after

4:02:46identifying a knowing material violation

4:02:49of the chapter.

4:02:51um in order for the assembly to suspend

4:02:53use of technology. Um for me, I just I I

4:02:57feel like that's too high of a bar um to

4:03:02allow the assembly to temporarily

4:03:04suspend use of technology if there is a

4:03:06violation, if there is an issue. Um,

4:03:10I think we have a an oversight role um

4:03:13as as a body and if there is a a

4:03:16violation of of the rest of the

4:03:21guardrails around

4:03:24the use of this technology. Um, that

4:03:27violation may happen on accident. Um,

4:03:30but I think that might be a time for us

4:03:32to hit pause and say, "Hey, actually, we

4:03:35something, you know, we need to fix

4:03:36something. we need to shore something

4:03:37up. Um, let's put this technology on

4:03:40pause until we fix whatever caused that.

4:03:43You know, it could have been something

4:03:45um um I guess purposeful um and

4:03:50insidious, you know, um in in other

4:03:52jurisdictions, for instance, law

4:03:55enforcement um officers have been found

4:03:59guilty of using um technology to track,

4:04:03you know, former romantic partners, for

4:04:05instance. But it also could just be, you

4:04:07know, that there was a tech issue and

4:04:09information got shared when it shouldn't

4:04:12have. Um, and that might, you know, be a

4:04:16a time to say, you know, this happened

4:04:18by accident. Um, but in order to restore

4:04:22public trust, we need to make sure that

4:04:25it won't happen again. And and until

4:04:28that issue is fixed, we're going to say,

4:04:32"Hey, we're not going to use this right

4:04:34now." Um this doesn't and this came up

4:04:36in the work session too. This does is

4:04:38not punitive. It doesn't um have any

4:04:40penalties for a violation of the

4:04:42chapter. It just says the assembly as a

4:04:44body um essentially by yeah by

4:04:47resolution we can suspend uh a municipal

4:04:50agency's use of the surveillance

4:04:51technology. Um, so yeah, I guess you

4:04:56know, a an oopsie could have detrimental

4:04:59effects just like somebody doing

4:05:01something on purpose and and may cause

4:05:03us to want to reevaluate things. Thank

4:05:05you, Madam Chair.

4:05:07>> Okay. Uh, Miss Scout on the amendment.

4:05:11>> Thank you. Um, echoing Vice Chair

4:05:14Voland, I believe that this language

4:05:19creates too high of a bar knowingly,

4:05:21materially, and consistently. Um, with

4:05:24the technology of this power, the

4:05:27actions that we take and the way that

4:05:29it's used should always be done

4:05:32knowingly.

4:05:33Um and so you know a as the assembly

4:05:38acts as the oversight body

4:05:42for this and really every department in

4:05:45the municipality. Um we need to

4:05:50think about the bars that we're

4:05:51establishing and the powers that we hold

4:05:54and the responsibility we have to the

4:05:56public to ensure that this technology is

4:05:58used responsibly and in the way that

4:06:01it's intended. And so, um, yeah, this is

4:06:04an amendment that I feel strongly about.

4:06:08Um, I believe this language creates

4:06:10extremely large loopholes that basically

4:06:14any violation of this policy. Somebody

4:06:17could say, "I didn't know I was doing

4:06:20it. Oopsie." Um, and I don't want to

4:06:24create that option. I believe um, we can

4:06:26do better than that. So, I urge my

4:06:29colleague support. Thank you.

4:06:32Okay, next. Miss Silvers on the

4:06:34amendment.

4:06:36>> Um,

4:06:38I have a question. I guess this would be

4:06:40for the municipal attorney. Uh, do we

4:06:43need this entire section that this

4:06:46amendment exists in

4:06:50for the assembly uh to suspend

4:06:54uh any

4:06:56policy at any given time?

4:06:59Um or does the assembly have the power

4:07:02to

4:07:04suspend policy at any time for any

4:07:07reason uh including some of the policies

4:07:09that we're discussing here?

4:07:13>> Uh through the chair. No, the assembly

4:07:16could do this by ordinance at any time.

4:07:21>> And um on this section here, the the

4:07:25language is May. So, does anything in

4:07:28this section require the assembly to

4:07:31suspend any technology if there's a

4:07:33material even if there's a material

4:07:35violation

4:07:36>> through the chair? No, it would be at

4:07:38the assembly's discretion.

4:07:40>> Okay. So basically what I'm hearing is

4:07:43that really this

4:07:46entire section doesn't serve much

4:07:49purpose except to maybe possibly make

4:07:52contractors wary of doing business with

4:07:54us because it introduces an uncertainty

4:07:59uh through the chair. I think that is

4:08:03accurate potentially for contractors,

4:08:05but also if we have signed a contract,

4:08:07we would probably still be subject to

4:08:09some contractual obligations. Um because

4:08:11it does say suspending until the

4:08:12violation is um

4:08:16Oh, I thought it Yeah.

4:08:20The original version said until the

4:08:22assembly finds the violation cured. So,

4:08:23it wouldn't necessarily be a permanent

4:08:25sessation. It would be a suspension

4:08:27until the problem is remedied. But

4:08:31uh but I think that it also introduces

4:08:32uncertainty for departments uh who want

4:08:35to utilize technology if they do sign a

4:08:38contract and tie up budget funds for it

4:08:40and staff accordingly to have the

4:08:43possibility of suspension of the use of

4:08:45technology hanging over their heads even

4:08:47for minor violations um seems

4:08:49problematic. So it could be that

4:08:52something in between the two the S

4:08:54version and this amendment is

4:08:56appropriate. But I do think that

4:08:58removing any standard so that suspension

4:09:01could occur even for a minor technical

4:09:02any minor technical violation is

4:09:05problematic.

4:09:07>> Okay. Thank you. I I mean what I'm

4:09:09hearing is that we have the power to

4:09:11suspend any policy you want at any time

4:09:13for any reason. So I I mean I'm actually

4:09:15kind of tempted to come back to this uh

4:09:18maybe and bring an amendment to the

4:09:20amendment to remove this section in its

4:09:22entirety since it seems to serve no

4:09:24practical purpose. Thank you.

4:09:29>> Okay. Next I have Mr. Handle in for on

4:09:30the amendment.

4:09:31>> So just [clears throat] a question maybe

4:09:33maybe for the sponsors on this. So so

4:09:35this doesn't form u I guess anything

4:09:38automatically

4:09:40um if we didn't have this provision in

4:09:42and there was some accidental

4:09:45um disclosure of data. we would

4:09:47essentially have to go if we wanted to

4:09:50suspend the policy, we would have to

4:09:53essentially go through a brand new

4:09:55ordinance. And so that requires public

4:09:57hearing where we've got to notice it.

4:09:58And so the the amount of time for the us

4:10:02as a legislative body to take action is

4:10:05somewhat hindered uh versus just doing a

4:10:08resolution. Maybe this is more for for

4:10:09the municipal attorney. Then

4:10:12>> uh through the chair, there's a reason

4:10:14we put this in the S version. So the

4:10:16original language uh prior to the

4:10:18amendment did still retain the

4:10:20suspension provision allowing the

4:10:22assembly giving a clear pathway for the

4:10:23assembly to do it and putting

4:10:24departments right on notice that it

4:10:26could happen. Um but we did modify the

4:10:30language. This was originally in the

4:10:32original version of the ordinance uh

4:10:34from the original sponsors, but we did

4:10:36modify it to make it more practical um

4:10:39by including an element where it has to

4:10:40be, you know, consistent material and

4:10:42knowing a department has to be on

4:10:43purpose essentially flouting the law for

4:10:45the suspension to be triggered or fail

4:10:47to fix a really bad violation within

4:10:49their department when it comes to their

4:10:50to their attention. Um so it does serve

4:10:53a purpose. It does provide a path. It's

4:10:55a more streamlined path than just doing

4:10:57it by ordinance without this pathway in

4:10:59code. Um, but I think that you want to

4:11:01strike the right balance that allows

4:11:02operations to continue without undue

4:11:04uncertainty.

4:11:06>> But I mean, I guess it's still I guess

4:11:08what this body would I guess would

4:11:09determine a violation. If it's, hey,

4:11:12something was accidentally shared in an

4:11:13email or something, that would probably

4:11:15be not something that the the body is

4:11:17going to sit there and say, "Hey, we're

4:11:18going to go and suspend everything uh

4:11:22for that." I mean, there there'd be a

4:11:23hearing and

4:11:25it sounds like some kind of kind of

4:11:27process on that. And so it's whatever

4:11:28this assembly or a future assembly

4:11:30essentially would be would determine of

4:11:32hey we we we want to kind of pause the

4:11:35brakes and we want to take a little bit

4:11:37of time to review this. Correct.

4:11:40>> Yes. Although I would recommend keeping

4:11:42the final language no matter what you do

4:11:44with this provision until the assembly

4:11:45finds the violation cured in their

4:11:48because then it's more of a pause

4:11:50instead of just an indefinite

4:11:52suspension.

4:11:54>> Okay. Maybe that would be a question to

4:11:55the sponsors. Was it their tent intent

4:11:57to to have that portion removed?

4:12:00>> Yes. Question to Mr. Von McCormack or

4:12:02Scout.

4:12:03>> Um, thank you. So,

4:12:07uh,

4:12:10I mean, if if the administration would

4:12:12rather retain that language until the

4:12:14assembly finds the violation cured, I'd

4:12:17be fine with that. Um,

4:12:21yeah, there's a the intent of this

4:12:26and and the purpose of of this being in

4:12:29the S version

4:12:31um as I understand it it's by resolution

4:12:36the assembly acting as a body subject to

4:12:38the will of the body has to pass a

4:12:39majority um ha can suspend the

4:12:42technology by resolution that is not

4:12:45something that we can currently do in

4:12:47code it would have to be an ordinance

4:12:49process like you described Mr. are

4:12:50handling which is very different than a

4:12:52resolution. Um and I I think we've seen

4:12:56that there's a whole lot of discussion

4:12:57generated when you do something via

4:12:59ordinance. Um so

4:13:03yeah, if that is um language that the um

4:13:07the administration finds helpful uh to

4:13:11me,

4:13:15you know what what would that look like

4:13:16then? That would just mean the assembly

4:13:19would pass a secondary resolution, you

4:13:21know, on on saying, "Okay, well, this

4:13:24has been presented to us that the issue

4:13:26is fixed." Um, and then we could say,

4:13:28"Okay, you can use the technology

4:13:30again." Does that answer your question?

4:13:33>> Yeah. And I mean, if there's some draft

4:13:34language, I would

4:13:37certainly support the support amendment

4:13:39to to do that.

4:13:40>> Okay. Well, I have um I'm in in the

4:13:42queue and I'll stay there for now, but

4:13:44um I'll go back to the chair.

4:13:47>> Okay. Uh next on the amendment, Mr.

4:13:49Pvidia,

4:13:54>> I'm not sure what we're doing here. Um I

4:13:57um I'm just really concerned by this

4:13:59whole thing. I I'll speak specifically

4:14:00to to the amendment, but um so I don't

4:14:04support this at all. I I think that the

4:14:06the the process of of of

4:14:09um developing good policy, developing

4:14:12good law doesn't happen in this way. It

4:14:14doesn't happen when when the

4:14:16administration sits down and works with

4:14:18legal and works with the department and

4:14:20works with us to develop an S version

4:14:23and then we um we tweak it on the dis um

4:14:28and um so I I I don't support this. I

4:14:31think there are a lot of unintended

4:14:33consequences that come from tweaking

4:14:34this language on the the dis. I think

4:14:36the the language that came forward from

4:14:39the administration is is is

4:14:42reasonable and meets I think the

4:14:45original intent that was brought forward

4:14:47by the the SP sponsors and I have grave

4:14:51concerns that this is going to create

4:14:53more problems and and um so I would

4:14:56prefer that we dispense with with this.

4:14:58I'm I'm particularly concerned about um

4:15:01the the the the vi the reduction of the

4:15:04assembly finds the the violation cured

4:15:07because it leaves it open. That that

4:15:09concerns me. It concerns me that that

4:15:11knowingly, materially, and consistently

4:15:13is taken out um because that creates a

4:15:15clear understanding of of um of the

4:15:18severity of that violation. The the term

4:15:20was used earlier of a high bar. It

4:15:23should be a high bar before we get

4:15:24involved. it. We are policy makers and

4:15:27we are over oversight body, but we do

4:15:29not get involved in the day-to-day

4:15:31operations of other departments. And so

4:15:33um um this concerns me because it it

4:15:37feels like it's crossing over into

4:15:40managing this department as opposed to

4:15:42um being an oversight and policy body.

4:15:45So I would reject this um this this

4:15:50amendment and um I encourage my my

4:15:52colleagues to do the same. Thanks.

4:15:55>> Okay. Next I have Mr. Martinez.

4:15:57>> Thank you chair. Question for the

4:16:00sponsors. What is the tool that by which

4:16:04we the findings are made?

4:16:10>> So question for Scott McCormack or Malt.

4:16:13>> Um I I think I think findings could

4:16:16arise um in several ways. Um, I think

4:16:21you potentially you could have a

4:16:23whistleblower um alert the assembly to

4:16:25an abuse of this technology. Um, you

4:16:29could have a a a department themselves

4:16:33themselves say, "Hey, this this

4:16:35happened." Um, you know, and and brief

4:16:38the assembly um either them or the

4:16:41municipal attorney in executive session.

4:16:43Um,

4:16:46yeah, I I I guess I could envision

4:16:48multiple ways

4:16:50that the

4:16:57a violation could surface.

4:17:00um

4:17:03the then the assembly would acting as a

4:17:05body um take action and essentially

4:17:09state um its position on that finding

4:17:14via resolution.

4:17:19So what I gather is there's not a

4:17:20standardized mechanism or a standardized

4:17:23tool by which the assembly would be

4:17:26monitoring in real time essentially uh

4:17:29violations of the policy that

4:17:33essentially uses technology in real

4:17:35time. And so there's there's that

4:17:39doesn't make sense to me. Um, just on

4:17:41the face of it, it seems like there's a

4:17:43an element missing to be able to have a

4:17:46regular report of some sort that doesn't

4:17:50rely on a potential whistleblower or uh

4:17:55a potential random way in because

4:17:59essentially what that would mean is that

4:18:00we would find out about the violation

4:18:03after the fact and it would it would

4:18:05there would be a violation happening for

4:18:09how wrong. Essentially, this is what

4:18:12that would lead to. And I think that

4:18:14that's a that's a that's problematic

4:18:17for two reasons. one I think I don't

4:18:19think that the the tool I don't think

4:18:23that uh we the the resources for us to

4:18:26have that tool specifically related to

4:18:28this particular

4:18:31body of work is uh enough there's I

4:18:34don't think there's enough value in that

4:18:37pursuit to develop a new tool when this

4:18:40particular body for example

4:18:43um

4:18:45has

4:18:47not taken

4:18:48similar aggressive approaches toward

4:18:52police oversight in the first place,

4:18:53right? And so we've taken we've taken

4:18:55some steps away back and we've thought

4:18:58about what does oversight mean because

4:19:00it's very difficult to do those

4:19:01oversight conversations from the deis.

4:19:03And so we still haven't gotten to a

4:19:06place where some of those lingering

4:19:07questions about civilian oversight, for

4:19:09example, have been even addressed. And

4:19:11so um and it's not to say that that we

4:19:15should have that conversation instead of

4:19:17this one. It's to critique this

4:19:18particular item um for what it what it

4:19:22represents in that way. So I don't I

4:19:23think the tool is problematic both if we

4:19:26had one how much resources would we

4:19:29invest into that tool for whatever

4:19:32oversight

4:19:34standardized oversight

4:19:36and and then on the other side of that

4:19:38particular question around the tool is

4:19:40also um

4:19:45back to the nature of taking action and

4:19:47what good is what good is uh stopping

4:19:51something that that we can't know about

4:19:54unless there's a a mechanism to report

4:19:57regularly. So, it's kind of waiting for

4:20:00the problem to emerge doesn't mean that

4:20:02we're solving or protecting the the

4:20:04municipality from the implementation of

4:20:06that problem. The on the other side then

4:20:09I I go to Mr. Perez Verdia's point

4:20:12around process and and I just think to

4:20:15myself, we earlier tonight had a

4:20:17conversation around

4:20:20um

4:20:22a task force for like the or a work

4:20:26group for h for housing questions. And I

4:20:29wonder about this type of oversight,

4:20:33these types of really substantial

4:20:35questions being developed uh in this

4:20:38forum versus taking a very long

4:20:41deliberate community process that

4:20:43engages a task force, a working group.

4:20:46Um and and so that that I think about

4:20:49that as a different type of process that

4:20:51potentially leads to an oversight

4:20:52conversation of of of the larger

4:20:56question. But um this amendment flags

4:20:59that for me with respect to the tool um

4:21:02and the lack of a tool and um and when

4:21:06we find out about problems. So I think

4:21:09that that's a challenge for me with with

4:21:11respect to this particular item on amend

4:21:14the amendment. Um and I also think it's

4:21:17important that until the assembly finds

4:21:19a the violated the cure vi uh the

4:21:22violation cured I think is is

4:21:24interesting to to really noodle through

4:21:27and then the last point I'd make is

4:21:29member uh silvers mentioned the idea

4:21:32that by resolution we already have this

4:21:36calls for the assembly may by resolution

4:21:39suspend the agency

4:21:42by resolution means it usurps all public

4:21:44process process or by resolution means

4:21:48because I think the the question around

4:21:50taking action being delayed if the

4:21:53assembly has the ability to take action

4:21:54without this item today because we found

4:21:57out through open-ended channels that

4:22:00there could have been a violation or

4:22:02that there has in fact been a violation.

4:22:05How would we confirm the violation? And

4:22:09then how would we uh be able to um why

4:22:13would why would why would we not be able

4:22:15to take action and why would it delay

4:22:18action if we didn't pass this today

4:22:20considering we have resolution power? So

4:22:22that's to the municipal attorney. Is

4:22:24there something that I'm missing with

4:22:25respect to if this passes today, any

4:22:28future resolution associated with this

4:22:30item does not have to come before the

4:22:32public?

4:22:34>> Uh through the chair, I'll note that the

4:22:37language here does require a public

4:22:38hearing. So it says resolution, but it

4:22:41says upon a finding by the assembly

4:22:42after public hearing uh then they would

4:22:45do that. So this does contemplate a

4:22:46public hearing aspect. Um, and I think

4:22:49that there I will say there is some

4:22:52question about the use of resolution as

4:22:54a mechanism to restrict the executive

4:22:57branch's functioning. Uh, so if you're

4:22:59having a public hearing anyway, I think

4:23:01amend an amendment that replaced

4:23:03resolution with ordinance wouldn't

4:23:04functionally make a difference

4:23:05necessarily to your process since you

4:23:08are voluntarily would be voluntarily

4:23:09agreeing to a public hearing anyway on

4:23:11this issue. Um, but would be more secure

4:23:13in terms of a mechanism to move forward.

4:23:15>> Thank you. So for clarification, I could

4:23:17think it was presented earlier, but it

4:23:19was done so fast that I think it was the

4:23:22the uh the impression of a presentation

4:23:26that if this passed today and we found a

4:23:30problem, we would have direct line to

4:23:32not have to go to the public and that

4:23:33would save time somehow. I think it was

4:23:36called like how would we take action and

4:23:38would action be delayed if we saw a

4:23:40problem? And it just I I don't see that

4:23:43that's

4:23:44actual. I see it as all resolutions

4:23:47still have to go through the normal

4:23:49process and that would require a public

4:23:51hearing. Is that a miss of uh the

4:23:54interpretation

4:23:55>> uh through the chair? I did hear that

4:23:57comment earlier that characterization

4:23:58earlier and I think it was overlooking

4:24:01briefly overlooking the public hearing

4:24:03requirement that's in the existing

4:24:05language. So this is I mean this as

4:24:07drafted would have to go before the

4:24:09public.

4:24:10>> Okay. So thank you for the for

4:24:11clarification. then this

4:24:15or without this

4:24:18um if we didn't if we didn't vote this

4:24:20up and we didn't approve this particular

4:24:23amendment.

4:24:24The assembly still has and always

4:24:27retains the power of resolution that

4:24:30goes through the normal process for a

4:24:31public hearing to address any of the

4:24:33issues that this item is focused on in

4:24:36the first place.

4:24:37That's what member Silver's point was in

4:24:40terms of the redundancy of the tool. Is

4:24:42that is that a fair characterization of

4:24:44that?

4:24:46>> I

4:24:48I think it is a fair characterization.

4:24:50Um I think that if the assembly wants to

4:24:53communicate to the public that it does

4:24:54have an oversight role in this

4:24:55technology, then putting it in code does

4:24:58make sense. Um but in functionally the

4:25:01process would be similar. I do also want

4:25:03to highlight that this provision in the

4:25:05S is intended to work together with the

4:25:07enforcement provision at the end of the

4:25:09S which has a process for members of the

4:25:12public who believe that there's been a

4:25:13violation to file complaints that then

4:25:16have to be investigated and all

4:25:17complaints whether substantiated or not

4:25:19have to be reported to the assembly. And

4:25:21so this provision is intended to be

4:25:22informed by that process. It makes sure

4:25:24the assembly gets information about

4:25:26violations or alleged violations

4:25:28regardless of whether they're, you know,

4:25:30found to be true or not by the

4:25:31department. But the assembly will get

4:25:32that information in close to real time

4:25:35and then we'll get the tools to take

4:25:37further action as needed. And so that's

4:25:39one of the reasons why the standard here

4:25:41was set higher. So the standard is set

4:25:43in the S version at knowing material

4:25:45inconsistent. Right? It has to be a

4:25:47really problematic violation to trigger

4:25:49this suspension provision. Uh and that's

4:25:52because the assembly will be getting

4:25:53quite a lot of information about any

4:25:55even alleged violations. So it will have

4:25:57the tools it needs to take action

4:25:59through this or another mechanism if

4:26:00needed.

4:26:03Last question. Knowing materially and

4:26:06consistently sounds pretty subjective as

4:26:09well.

4:26:11Um and so again, what are the measures

4:26:14contemplated in in this particular um

4:26:18amendment and section to be able to

4:26:22determine

4:26:24um the problem in the first place? How

4:26:26do we measure that?

4:26:28>> Through the chair. And just to clarify

4:26:30the amendment here, most of the language

4:26:31on the screen is in the S version. So

4:26:33the amendment is just show doing the

4:26:35strikethroughs and the the

4:26:37strikethroughs and the additions as

4:26:38shown here. So this

4:26:39>> right for knowingly, materially, and

4:26:41consistently.

4:26:41>> So in the S version

4:26:44because this this amendment would remove

4:26:46those words.

4:26:48>> Correct.

4:26:48>> Okay. Got it. So in the S version,

4:26:51knowing is a legal standard. It means

4:26:52you have to um you have to be aware that

4:26:55you're engaging in a violation. So it

4:26:57would be a department is intent like

4:26:59knowingly violating the restrictions

4:27:02that assembly has put on it. You have to

4:27:04understand that that's what you're

4:27:05doing. Not just oh I forgot to you know

4:27:07I negligently did this. I didn't realize

4:27:09I was doing it. So that's knowingly uh

4:27:12materially means in a substantial way.

4:27:14So not just you know oh whoops we were

4:27:16supposed to keep the data for 14 days

4:27:18but some setting got tripped and we kept

4:27:20it for 14 days and 30 minutes. I don't

4:27:22know that anyone would think that's a

4:27:24material violation, but that would be an

4:27:26judgment for the assembly to make

4:27:27whether something is material or not

4:27:29based on your interpretation of how

4:27:31important the different provisions in

4:27:32the chapter are. Uh, and consistently

4:27:35would be, you know, a repeated pattern.

4:27:38>> So, I think these are these are real

4:27:39standards. Um, I think materially is the

4:27:41one that would be at the assembly's

4:27:42discretion.

4:27:44for measurement purposes consistently

4:27:46seems like it's the only quantifiable

4:27:48one because you can see if there was a

4:27:51repeat offender or repeat action. The

4:27:53others seem subjective

4:27:56is that

4:27:58at least from the policymakaker's

4:27:59perspective, from the legal perspective,

4:28:01you may have a legal definition, but

4:28:03we're not obligated to follow that legal

4:28:05definition. We're obligated to follow

4:28:07what makes sense to us

4:28:10>> through the chair. I mean, I think you

4:28:11would still have to follow code and

4:28:12knowingly does have a legal definition

4:28:14and it is all over other parts of code.

4:28:16Um, and so I think that you would have

4:28:18to make a factual finding that the

4:28:20department knowingly materially

4:28:22inconsistently violated it. And I think

4:28:23that if you didn't have any basis to it

4:28:27would be difficult for you to make a

4:28:28knowing

4:28:29to find that a department did something

4:28:30knowingly if you didn't have any

4:28:31indication that they uh didn't know. But

4:28:35I I will say one amendment to those

4:28:38terms if the assembly feels like that

4:28:40standard all three of those together is

4:28:41too high. A simple amendment to the

4:28:43existing language in the s not the full

4:28:45um scope of what's done here is you

4:28:47could just replace that and with an or

4:28:49knowingly materially or consistently

4:28:52because each one of those things I think

4:28:53would be cause for concern.

4:28:57>> Thank you. I appreciate that and and

4:28:58thank you for the feedback on that. No

4:29:00no no additional time.

4:29:03>> Okay. Um, and then I neglected just very

4:29:06briefly, I neglected to say before, um,

4:29:08I believe we started this at about 9:15.

4:29:10I'll confirm with the clerk the timing,

4:29:12but just to note, we do have one hour

4:29:14for debate. However, we can, um, move to

4:29:16extend debate, so we don't need to do

4:29:17that right now, but I'm keeping track of

4:29:18the time. Just something for folks to

4:29:20keep in mind. Uh, next, Mr. uh, Fen, did

4:29:23you speak to this amendment already? I

4:29:24believe you did.

4:29:25>> Yeah. So, I'm going to need to come back

4:29:27to you. Um, Miss Baldwin Day.

4:29:33Thank you, chair. So, um I really

4:29:36appreciate Miss Gardner's uh you last

4:29:39comment. Um I I think I'm inclined to

4:29:43retain knowingly, materially, or

4:29:46consistently because that gives some

4:29:48some latitude, which I think is

4:29:50important. Um

4:29:52I I also I also really I also really

4:29:56think that that last clause until the

4:29:58assembly finds the violation cured is an

4:30:00important piece. Um and it it sort of

4:30:02indicates the pathway for reinstatement

4:30:04which I think is important. Um so uh I I

4:30:09my my I think I have a question though

4:30:11because the the language of a finding by

4:30:14the assembly as as I'm as I'm reading

4:30:17this.

4:30:19What I'm what I'm seeing here is a

4:30:21sequence that looks something like this.

4:30:23There's a a report of a violation.

4:30:26There is a public hearing

4:30:29and then

4:30:31the assembly makes a finding after the

4:30:34public hearing.

4:30:38And then may by resolution suspend that

4:30:42agency's use of the surveillance

4:30:43technology at issue.

4:30:45And I want to I want to be sure I'm

4:30:47understanding correctly that the finding

4:30:49is a separate measure from the

4:30:52resolution to suspend because that

4:30:54that's how that's how I think this

4:30:56reads. And so I I'd like to hear from

4:30:58council if that's what your

4:31:00understanding of this mechanism is. Um

4:31:04and if so,

4:31:07how is that finding determined? Is there

4:31:09a separate deliberation that happens?

4:31:10Who writes the finding? Is that again is

4:31:13that different than the resolution? H

4:31:16what does this look like in practice for

4:31:18us?

4:31:19>> Yeah. So, I'm invite um council to

4:31:21respond and then I will also suggest

4:31:23what might be helpful is to use an

4:31:25analog example which is um alcohol or

4:31:27marijuana licenses in which we've made

4:31:29findings um which is not the same and

4:31:31I'm not invoking the name of any

4:31:32particular license at this time. Um, but

4:31:35if you can just because I because maybe

4:31:37it's a similar process. So maybe if we

4:31:38can answer Miss Baldwin's question, but

4:31:40also just wanted to make sure that's

4:31:41part of the discussion

4:31:44>> through the chair. It's a great question

4:31:46and this is something that I have had to

4:31:47work through uh as well. And again, this

4:31:50is a provision that was actually largely

4:31:52imported from the original version of

4:31:53the ordinance because the original

4:31:54intent as uh member or vice chair Holand

4:31:57um explained was to try to reach

4:32:00agreement on on a version and we did

4:32:02make a lot of progress on that together.

4:32:04Um but this I think that the way it

4:32:06would work would be a draft resolution

4:32:08would be put in. A concern would come to

4:32:10a member's attention or the assembly's

4:32:11attention as a whole. A resolution would

4:32:12be drafted that identified the the the

4:32:15viol the alleged violation um and would

4:32:18propose suspension until you know cured

4:32:21and then a public hearing would be held.

4:32:22The assembly would then decide whether

4:32:24to adopt that resolution which would

4:32:26have that finding and the suspension in

4:32:27the same document I think would be the

4:32:29mechanism.

4:32:31>> Okay. Thank you. that that that's much

4:32:34cleaner than what I was reading. So, I

4:32:36appreciate that very much. Um,

4:32:41I would like to move to amend the

4:32:44amendment

4:32:46and

4:32:48reinclude knowingly, materially,

4:32:51consistently, but with the or rather

4:32:53than the and.

4:32:55So it would read, "A municipal agency

4:32:57has knowingly, materially, or

4:32:58consistently violated this chapter."

4:33:02>> Second

4:33:02>> and and and [laughter]

4:33:05also reinclude until the assembly finds

4:33:08the violation cured.

4:33:09>> Second.

4:33:09>> Second.

4:33:11>> Okay, I'm hearing multiple seconds. Um,

4:33:12so motion by Miss Baldwin Day to amend

4:33:14the amendment. Um, and I'm going to

4:33:16restate it, make sure the clerk has it

4:33:18correct on the board as well. So

4:33:19>> point of information,

4:33:22>> sorry, what's your point of information?

4:33:23Is is this amendment to the amendment

4:33:25literally just going back to what was

4:33:27essentially already in there except it's

4:33:28saying or instead of and

4:33:31so did we just spend I mean how many

4:33:33freaking like how long how much time

4:33:35have we spent on this just to change the

4:33:36word to or is that is that really what

4:33:38we're at right now?

4:33:39>> Uh the only other thing that would be

4:33:40different is um the words knowing

4:33:42material uh are struck

4:33:46>> knowingly materially or consistently. Uh

4:33:48no in the fourth line um remedial action

4:33:51after identifying a knowing material

4:33:53violation knowing material remains

4:33:55remains redacted.

4:33:57>> Okay.

4:33:58>> Okay. So let me make sure the record's

4:33:59clear and then we can um deal with so

4:34:03the amendment to the amendment as moved

4:34:05by Miss Baldwin Day um seconded by I

4:34:08think I heard many people. Was it Mr.

4:34:10Was it Mr. Ger? No. Is it Mr. Handelin?

4:34:12Sorry. Sorry.

4:34:21Okay. Okay. So, I'm going to restate

4:34:22this and I'll ask Miss Baldwin Day to

4:34:24confirm and then we'll move from there.

4:34:25So, the amendment to the amendment is to

4:34:28restore the words knowingly, materially,

4:34:32change the word and to or and consist

4:34:34and keep the word consistently or

4:34:36restore the word consistently. And then

4:34:39can you restate the other part of it?

4:34:40Um, if I might, um, perhaps a cleaner

4:34:42way to do this would be to dispatch with

4:34:46this amendment and then simply go back

4:34:47to the S version and do a verbal

4:34:50amendment to change and to or and strike

4:34:53knowing material. I think that would be

4:34:55much cleaner and in terms of process if

4:34:58folks would be open to that. Um, so I'm

4:35:00going to turn to the clerk in terms of

4:35:01procedure.

4:35:03So I are you going to ask about this

4:35:07being withdrawn and then going back and

4:35:09making the amendment because if you make

4:35:10this amendment and then go back and

4:35:12remend it if that's asking the same

4:35:14question twice.

4:35:16>> Um I think I was I was

4:35:20to member Girker's point. I was thinking

4:35:22that if this amendment in its entirety,

4:35:25right, if I rescend my amendment to the

4:35:27amendment and the movers of this

4:35:29amendment rescend their move to amend,

4:35:33then we could just amend the S version

4:35:35directly very simply and move on

4:35:39>> or no, is that I I I'm just trying to

4:35:42save us a few steps if that's possible.

4:35:55I will defer to the clerk on

4:36:00Okay. Well, um I guess let's stay the

4:36:04course if it's ultimately the same

4:36:06number of turns. Okay, great. Um yes.

4:36:10So, uh chair restate the motion. So,

4:36:15>> restore the word knowingly, restore the

4:36:17word materially, change the word and to

4:36:19or, restore the word consistently,

4:36:21and then um restore the last phrase

4:36:24until the assembly finds the violation

4:36:26cured. Is that correct?

4:36:27>> Correct.

4:36:29>> Okay. Um that is the amendment as

4:36:31amended. Um there was a motion by Miss

4:36:33Baldwin Day, second by multiple people,

4:36:35but Mr. Boland. Um

4:36:38uh anything further on that

4:36:42>> on that on that amendment? Yeah.

4:36:44>> Okay. Um hold on the amendment to the

4:36:47amendment. Okay. So going to move

4:36:49through the queue.

4:36:52Okay. Uh Mr. Mullen amendment to the

4:36:53amendment.

4:36:54>> Thank you. Um I support this. I I think

4:36:58you know it it does when we are making

4:36:59these small language tweaks it can feel

4:37:03um ridiculous but in law there is a a

4:37:07big difference between an and and an or.

4:37:10There's a big difference between a shall

4:37:12and a may. These things have real

4:37:14consequences even though they're just

4:37:16can be one-word changes. And for this

4:37:19this would solve for me um a big part of

4:37:23this and and is addresses you know my

4:37:26impetus for wanting to bring this

4:37:27forward is that previously you had to

4:37:30meet all three of those criteria for the

4:37:32assembly to to

4:37:34exercise this oversight role. And I

4:37:38think for me the biggest issue is is not

4:37:40the materially inconsistently portion

4:37:41but the knowingly. I think if if we find

4:37:44that there's an egregious um um

4:37:49violation

4:37:51that

4:37:54it shouldn't matter whether or not we

4:37:56knew about it. We still need to address

4:37:58it um before we should move forward. Um,

4:38:01and so I think that that that or um I

4:38:05appreciative of the um recom or the

4:38:09suggestion from the municipal attorney

4:38:11that gets me to where I can support this

4:38:12and and also happy to support you know

4:38:15until the assembly finds the violation

4:38:17cured. So yeah, I hope um my colleagues

4:38:21can support that. I also you know in

4:38:24terms of doing things from the dis you

4:38:26know this is part of our legislative

4:38:27process and I just want to state that

4:38:29for the record. Um, and I want to go

4:38:32back to my assertion that you we did

4:38:35work in good faith with the

4:38:36administration and and particularly the

4:38:38municipal attorney. We weren't able to

4:38:40reach agreement on everything. So, I

4:38:41don't I guess I have to push back on

4:38:44this um

4:38:46this characterization that we somehow

4:38:49are working in bad faith or that we

4:38:52weren't collaborative with the um

4:38:55administration. I believe we were. we

4:38:56just reach agreement on everything and

4:38:58that is the purpose of

4:39:01assembly member amendments. That is our

4:39:03role as policy makers. We make

4:39:05amendments to things that we pass. So um

4:39:09yeah, anyway, for what it's worth, I I I

4:39:12think this is important, but I think the

4:39:14amendment to the amendment um certainly

4:39:16addresses my concern. Thank you.

4:39:19>> Okay, I'm going to run through amendment

4:39:20to the amendment, Miss Scout. And if if

4:39:22you don't if you want to stay in the

4:39:23queue, then let me know as well.

4:39:26Thanks. Um just noting time here and the

4:39:30other the number of amendments we have

4:39:32left to consider. I'd like to call the

4:39:33question on the amendment to the

4:39:35amendment.

4:39:37>> Okay. Um the question has been called by

4:39:40um Miss Scout. Is there a second?

4:39:46Okay. Uh one second for the clerk, but I

4:39:48will note um the question uh has been

4:39:51called. There is a from sorry from Miss

4:39:54Scout a second by Miss Baldwin Day. The

4:39:57procedure on this is it is not a

4:39:58debatable motion and so we would move uh

4:40:00straight to voting on calling the

4:40:03question on and to be clear this is on

4:40:05the amendment to the amendment. So not

4:40:07the entire item

4:40:10and once the clerk catches up then we

4:40:11will be voting on that. So it looks like

4:40:13okay voting is open and uh what is the

4:40:16youth representatives? Oh she left. Okay

4:40:19sorry. [laughter]

4:40:19So okay I will note it was after 10.

4:40:21Yeah. Okay. So that makes one one step a

4:40:24little faster. So okay. So members may

4:40:26proceed to vote on that.

4:40:40Okay. On a vote of 8 to four, the

4:40:42question uh has been called. So members

4:40:44may proceed to vote on the amendment to

4:40:46the amendment of number four.

4:41:13Okay. On um Oh, wait. Hold on. Sorry.

4:41:20Okay. Okay. Sorry. So, uh on a vote of

4:41:2212 to zero, the um amend amendment to

4:41:25the amendment number four has passed. We

4:41:28are back on the main amendment. So I am

4:41:30uh again I'm going to be starting with

4:41:33folks who have not spoken yet on the

4:41:34amendment. So uh Miss Park on the

4:41:36amendment

4:41:38>> and again we're on amendment number

4:41:39four.

4:41:40>> Thank you chair. Amended. Um my question

4:41:43a little bit echoes uh what was asked by

4:41:46member Martinez and member Perez Verdia

4:41:49and um

4:41:54under part C where it says upon a

4:41:56finding by the assembly um I don't know

4:42:01whether I heard a a clear um a clear

4:42:05metric for a finding of intent and I'm

4:42:07wondering what the standard would be is

4:42:09that um by a prepoundonderance of

4:42:12evidence. Is that um uh a a a cognizable

4:42:18legal standard that we already have

4:42:23through the chair? Um it doesn't re

4:42:27necessarily reference intent. So it says

4:42:29knowingly and that would just be

4:42:30something for the assembly to determine

4:42:31based on what's presented to it. But

4:42:33there it is a you know legal standard

4:42:35that the finding would have to state

4:42:36that you're you have found that it was

4:42:38knowing. But I don't know that you would

4:42:40have to apply like a specific standard.

4:42:43I would say probably uh more likely true

4:42:46than not true is the typical civil

4:42:47standard which I think is a reasonable

4:42:49one the assembly to apply generally.

4:42:56>> Okay. Um next Mr. Girker on the

4:42:58amendment to the amendment.

4:43:00>> Yeah I appreciate that. Um

4:43:04we've done some

4:43:06some jiu-jitsu up here. So, I'm catching

4:43:09up a little bit. Um,

4:43:12the I think the concern I still have

4:43:14with the this overall amendment is the

4:43:17identifying is eliminating that knowing

4:43:20material violation of this chapter. Um,

4:43:23there just having if the concern is that

4:43:26the the the the

4:43:28bar is too high, I do worry that by

4:43:31taking out uh or by making this the bar

4:43:34is too low on the on the flip side. Um,

4:43:37and that does create some ambiguity for

4:43:40uh, department operations. And um, you

4:43:43know, to member Presford's point

4:43:45earlier, we're legislators. We're not

4:43:48we're not department staff, right? The

4:43:51mayor ran an election, the mayor got

4:43:53elected, she filled the executive branch

4:43:55with people to do the job uh, that she

4:43:57wants to do the job. Um, that's that's

4:43:59not us. That's not our role. Um, so I

4:44:01will be a no on the main mo on the main

4:44:04amendment here. And I urge my colleagues

4:44:06to also vote no.

4:44:09>> Okay. And I misspoke earlier, so I'm

4:44:11sorry. The just for clarification on the

4:44:13record, the motion to amend the

4:44:14amendment is what passed. So we're on

4:44:16the amendment for I said the amendment

4:44:17to amendment earlier. Sorry. Um so next,

4:44:20Miss Silver's on the amendment.

4:44:22>> Yeah. I have another question for the

4:44:24municipal attorney. Um you keep saying

4:44:26things like the assembly uh based on

4:44:28what is presented to it or um

4:44:32there would be a resolution drafted. who

4:44:34would draft the resolution and under

4:44:36what circumstances who would be

4:44:39presenting something to the assembly and

4:44:41why

4:44:43uh through the chair I think it would be

4:44:45like any other resolution for action the

4:44:47assembly wants to take I think somebody

4:44:49on the assembly would draft it so a

4:44:51member would be drafting

4:44:56okay thank you um yeah I mean I guess I

4:45:00just don't really see the point of going

4:45:03um through a a different process and you

4:45:07know at one point I think it was said

4:45:10that it would be streamlined but I don't

4:45:12even see that it's really streamlined

4:45:13because um there would still be a public

4:45:16hearing and so I assume there would have

4:45:18to be some notice for the public

4:45:19hearing. So I don't understand what's

4:45:21streamlined and I don't really

4:45:22understand what the the point of going

4:45:24through a different process is. Um, so I

4:45:28don't support the amendment to the

4:45:29amendment and I mean I I still think

4:45:32that I don't even really like this

4:45:34section alto together. I think

4:45:37maybe there are benefits to going

4:45:40through our our standard processes and

4:45:42using our standard powers to deal with

4:45:45these types of issues.

4:45:46>> Thank you.

4:45:47>> Point of information.

4:45:49>> Uh, what's your point of information,

4:45:50Mr. Boland?

4:45:52Um, this

4:45:54language

4:45:56prior to any amendments was in the S

4:45:59version, correct?

4:46:03>> Is that the case? Okay.

4:46:05>> Yes.

4:46:06>> Who are the sponsors of the S version?

4:46:10>> Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I am a co-sponsor of

4:46:12the S version, but the

4:46:14>> we're up here making sausage on the DIS,

4:46:16and I'm just like, you know, I don't

4:46:17know. Maybe we should go through the

4:46:19regular. We're speaking for an hour

4:46:21about it and about amendments about

4:46:22whether we have an or or an and. So I

4:46:25don't see the point of any of it

4:46:27>> of of your legislation.

4:46:29>> Okay. So um I want to be careful that

4:46:32we're using points of information for

4:46:33procedure. Um so we did verify that

4:46:36information. Um so I think Miss Silver,

4:46:39you still have the floor.

4:46:41>> Oh no, I'm done. Thank you.

4:46:43>> Okay. The clerk has reminded me um that

4:46:45we are three minutes out from an hour of

4:46:47debate. So, I would um entertain a

4:46:49motion to extend. I will also note um

4:46:51that the meeting ends at 11 unless we

4:46:53further extend it. So, I would recommend

4:46:55that if we extend debate, it would be

4:46:56not past 11 until we make another

4:46:58motion. Thanks.

4:46:58>> Motion to extend

4:47:00>> until 11. Second.

4:47:03>> Okay. I hear a motion to extend by Miss

4:47:04Park. Um second by Mr. Handelins. Well,

4:47:06by multiple people. Um is there any

4:47:08objection to extension of debate till

4:47:1011?

4:47:12>> Yes, I

4:47:13>> Okay. Uh then we will vote on that uh

4:47:16motion to extend.

4:47:35Okay. On a vote of 10 to two, we are

4:47:37extended debate to 11. I'll note that um

4:47:39for members of the public who are here,

4:47:40we may uh end up extending the meeting

4:47:42past 11 p.m., but I would not count on

4:47:45it. So, just for folks awareness, um the

4:47:47meeting may end at 11 or it may get

4:47:49extended. Okay. Uh next, um moving back

4:47:52to uh the queue, we have Mr. Martinez in

4:47:54the queue for the amendment. And I will

4:47:55note everybody who has spoken here has

4:47:56spoken before, so I'm going to go in the

4:47:58order that's listed.

4:48:00>> Before I go into my question on the

4:48:02floor, I have a point of information

4:48:05about that what we just did.

4:48:06>> Sure. Yeah.

4:48:07>> Okay. Um what if we didn't

4:48:12uh approve the extension until 11, what

4:48:15would in fact happen at the hour mark

4:48:18for this particular item?

4:48:20>> Um good question. That would essentially

4:48:22end um debate and so unless someone made

4:48:24an emotion to extend I believe we would

4:48:26end up just voting I guess to the clerk

4:48:28would that mean we would end up voting

4:48:30on the underlying item with no further

4:48:32amendments? Okay. Yes.

4:48:35[clears throat]

4:48:36Yeah. Yeah. Or there could be an

4:48:37opportunity to postpone the item or make

4:48:39any other motion.

4:48:40>> Right on. Okay. Thank you.

4:48:43So, uh to this particular item, uh to

4:48:45this amendment here, the the the

4:48:47follow-up question I have and it was

4:48:49mentioned earlier. It was an it was an

4:48:51interesting point that the municipal

4:48:52attorney uh articulated

4:48:55in passing, but I think it's

4:48:56substantial. and they said the tension

4:48:59between the legislative branch

4:49:01compelling the executive branch or the

4:49:05implementers

4:49:07um what is the mechanism by which the

4:49:09assembly forces compliance I picture a

4:49:13time when administration has a

4:49:15department that says I don't care about

4:49:17the finding of the assembly I don't care

4:49:20about what the assembly wants to tell us

4:49:21not to use technology for we're going to

4:49:24do it ourselves and I feel like there

4:49:26are some folks on this body who have a

4:49:28recollection of the tension of municipal

4:49:31governance when that was such and so I

4:49:34wonder what is the actual mechanism to

4:49:37force compliance from from the assembly

4:49:41with respect to making the

4:49:42administration or departments stop

4:49:45actually doing things

4:49:47>> uh through the chair the safest

4:49:49mechanism would be an ordinance um you

4:49:51would still have to respect separation

4:49:52of powers up to a point you know there

4:49:53are only so many any ordinance you would

4:49:55issue would have to comply the charter

4:49:57but an ordinance is the the mechanism

4:49:59for that subject to charter. So to my

4:50:02colleagues, what I heard was the hope is

4:50:04that an administration and departments

4:50:07would take our ordinance

4:50:10because of the alignment and of the uh

4:50:13the integrity. But I also recall sitting

4:50:18with a municipal attorney telling us

4:50:21that you all don't you don't have the

4:50:25power to compel us to do these sorts of

4:50:27things. You just make opinions and then

4:50:29you pass laws. But uh but it's debatable

4:50:31and I think that that's challenging to

4:50:34me when when we don't have the tools to

4:50:38um to both measure and then also to

4:50:41compel beyond the existing tools that we

4:50:44do have the power of the purse, the

4:50:46power of the ordinance. But we don't

4:50:48actually have the power to compel

4:50:49directors to do their jobs in different

4:50:52ways.

4:50:54in practice the administration does. Um,

4:50:57and I think that's something that we

4:50:59should consider as well in terms of the

4:51:02the operations of departments and how we

4:51:05get compliance and um the pathway to

4:51:08build an ecosystem for alignment versus

4:51:12the pitting and playing the gotcha game

4:51:17uh essentially from uh from a

4:51:20legislative branch to an executive

4:51:21branch. But thank you for the the the

4:51:24discussion there.

4:51:26>> Thank you chair.

4:51:27>> Okay. Next I have Mr. Presbyia on the

4:51:29amendment.

4:51:29>> And just before I I begin making sure of

4:51:32the information that currently the the

4:51:34amendment as it stands is um is has

4:51:39knowingly materially or consistently and

4:51:42then re re reclaims the last sentence

4:51:44but still strikes knowingly material. Is

4:51:46that correct? Is that where we're at?

4:51:47Okay. Yes.

4:51:48>> Um, so, um, I I think that this this

4:51:50debate is really about just lowering our

4:51:52standard, lowering the bar. And I think

4:51:54that's that's we we've heard that from

4:51:55from the sponsor that that's the idea.

4:51:57And I I believe that this bar should be

4:51:59high. I think if we are going to act as

4:52:01a body on something like this, it needs

4:52:03to be significant. Um, and so that's

4:52:06what I'm concerned about. And I'm also

4:52:07concerned about it being confusing.

4:52:10Um, I um would like to ask the municipal

4:52:12attorney specifically about the two

4:52:14terms knowingly and material. um with

4:52:17the the removal of that then a violation

4:52:21could be literally anything. There is no

4:52:23standard at which we're we're being

4:52:26asked to assess whether it is something

4:52:29worthy of acting on. Is that is that

4:52:31correct? If if we take out knowingly um

4:52:34material then any violation of any kind

4:52:38could be considered. Is that right?

4:52:41>> Uh through the chair. So looking at the

4:52:43amendment which is not up on the screen

4:52:45right now but in the second line of this

4:52:48paragraph there was there's a phrase um

4:52:50knowingly materially and consistently

4:52:52and that applies you know if the if the

4:52:54department municipal agency as an agency

4:52:56right as a practice has knowingly

4:52:58materially or consistently or and

4:53:00depending on whether the amendment

4:53:01passes violated the chapter right that's

4:53:04one p one finding the assembly could

4:53:06make or there's a second finding or the

4:53:09uh agency has failed to take reasonable

4:53:11remedial action after identifying a

4:53:14knowing material violation of the

4:53:16chapter. Um, and I think that's where,

4:53:19you know, you expect the agency to be

4:53:21responsible and accountable. So, if you

4:53:23discover in your agency somebody

4:53:25violated, you know, an employee uh

4:53:28violated violated the rules, then you

4:53:30should take appropriate action. So, any

4:53:32failure to take appropriate action

4:53:35uh for any for any violation without

4:53:37those words in there would then trigger

4:53:39this provision. So that is it. So is I'm

4:53:42trying to figure out if it's necessary

4:53:44or not because we already have

4:53:45knowingly, materially, or consistently.

4:53:47So that sets the standard for the

4:53:49violation there. And so is it necessary

4:53:52to have a a second standard in

4:53:54identifying a knowingly material

4:53:56violation or is that violation already

4:53:58been the standard already been

4:54:00established by the previous line? uh

4:54:02through the chair. I think you could

4:54:05remove the second line, the second part

4:54:08of it after the or failed to take

4:54:11reasonable remedial action after

4:54:13identifying a violation

4:54:17>> or no, I'm asking specifically about the

4:54:20the term knowing material. I'm I'm I'm

4:54:22wondering if by by removing that if

4:54:24we're removing a standard um and it

4:54:27allows it to be any violation or if the

4:54:30previous line that has knowingly

4:54:32material or consistently if that already

4:54:34establishes the the the standard for for

4:54:36the violation.

4:54:37>> So those are two separate tracks. Okay.

4:54:39So that's what I thought. So yeah, so

4:54:40the assembly's suspension power here

4:54:42would be triggered either because the

4:54:44agency itself knowingly, materially or

4:54:46consistently violated or because the

4:54:48agency failed to remedy uh a vi knowing

4:54:52a violation

4:54:53>> then that that that's I I'd like to move

4:54:54to amend the amendment to to to put back

4:54:57knowingly material into this.

4:55:01>> Okay. There's a motion by Mr. Presvidia

4:55:03to restore the words knowing material

4:55:06>> uh in the amendment um and then second

4:55:08by Mr. Ger

4:55:09>> and and just briefly, I think that it's

4:55:12important that that the standard is is

4:55:13high and that the violations that we're

4:55:15talking about are m material and and uh

4:55:18and so I think that this was put in for

4:55:21a good good reason. I think we should

4:55:22all honor that. Thanks.

4:55:25>> Okay. Um I know we got a few folks in

4:55:27the queue. Is this um uh Mr. Vaughn on

4:55:29the amendment to the amendment? Okay.

4:55:30I'm not in for the amendment to the

4:55:31amendment. Miss Baldday, amendment to

4:55:33the amendment. Okay. Please go ahead.

4:55:36>> Yeah, I think I take a slightly

4:55:37different reading on this. Um because

4:55:39this clause is about failing to take

4:55:42reasonable remedial action

4:55:44and

4:55:47to me it's

4:55:49immaterial whether it was a knowing

4:55:52material violation or simply a

4:55:54consistent accidental violation. If

4:55:56there if reasonable remedial action was

4:56:00warranted after a violation was

4:56:02identified and that action was not taken

4:56:05then that's also an issue. That's

4:56:06something that we ought to be mindful

4:56:08of. It's something I think we ought to

4:56:09be made aware of. And so I'm

4:56:14I am I'm

4:56:16less inclined to include knowing

4:56:18material violation. If if there's been a

4:56:22failure to take reasonable remedial

4:56:23action, the nature of the violation to

4:56:26me is less important. Um, so I I I would

4:56:31not be supporting the amendment to the

4:56:34amendment.

4:56:39>> Chair, can I ask that the municipal

4:56:40attorney to just respond to that if

4:56:42that's if that's if that

4:56:44>> uh Yeah, there's uh no one else in the

4:56:46queue. So I'll consider that you back in

4:56:47the queue, Mr. President.

4:56:48>> Because I'm I'm I'm I'm happy to to to

4:56:50capitulate that. I'm that that was not

4:56:52my understanding. So I want to make sure

4:56:53I'm I'm getting this right.

4:56:54>> Yeah. I'll invite Miss Gardner to

4:56:56respond

4:56:58>> through the chair. So the reason that

4:57:00knowing material was originally put in

4:57:01that line uh was to

4:57:04clarify that you know if there's a very

4:57:06very minor violation, right? And maybe

4:57:09there is no remedial action required. Uh

4:57:11is it really something that should

4:57:13warrant assembly attention and action?

4:57:15Um, so this is indicating like, hey, if

4:57:17you have somebody in your department or

4:57:19the agency discovers that there was a

4:57:21knowing, right, material like an actual

4:57:23meaningful violation that somebody did

4:57:26on purpose, they should really

4:57:27discipline, take action, you know,

4:57:29correct that. Um, and so that would if

4:57:31they failed to do that, right? That's on

4:57:32the agency, then it should trigger this

4:57:35provision. So it does do some work

4:57:37there. It's a policy call for the

4:57:39assembly, but um this you know was

4:57:42originally designed as a tool that would

4:57:43not be super easy to use. It should

4:57:46because again it introduces uncertainty

4:57:49into operations and contracting.

4:57:51>> Okay, thank you.

4:57:54>> Okay, I don't see anyone else in the

4:57:56queue for the amendment to amendment.

4:57:57Again, this is to uh restore the words

4:57:59knowing material uh in amendment number

4:58:02four.

4:58:03So members may proceed to vote.

4:58:16Okay. On a motion of 6 to6, um that

4:58:18amendment to the amendment has failed on

4:58:20amendment four. Uh so we're back on

4:58:22amendment four. Uh Mr. Bowen.

4:58:29Uh yeah.

4:58:33Okay. Uh there's no one further in the

4:58:34queue on

4:58:36No, sorry, just for clarity, I'm in the

4:58:38queue, but it's for the main motion. Um

4:58:40so, uh no further members in the queue

4:58:42for amendment four. So, members may

4:58:44proceed to vote. This is amendment four

4:58:46as amended.

4:59:01on a vote of 8 to four. Um, amendment

4:59:04number four as amendment has passed. I

4:59:06will also note maybe this is why we are

4:59:07not allowed to amend four things deep

4:59:09because we would all get thoroughly

4:59:10confused.

4:59:12So that's a blessing. Okay. Uh, next I

4:59:14am on the main motion again. One second.

4:59:23Okay. Sorry. Next, Mr. Bowen.

4:59:26>> Thank you, Madam Chair. I'm going to

4:59:27move amendment number five on behalf of

4:59:31myself and member Scout.

4:59:35>> Okay, there's a second

4:59:36>> motion to amend uh with uh Voland Scout

4:59:40amendment number five uh by Mr. Voland,

4:59:42second by Miss Scout. Mr. Voland,

4:59:45>> thank you. So, um, this is something

4:59:47that, as I recall, it was neither in the

4:59:50S nor the S1, um, but was in the

4:59:53original version. And, and I, frankly,

4:59:55just heard a lot of feedback from the

4:59:57community that they, um, want to keep a

5:00:02retention, a data retention limit in

5:00:04code. Um, and so that is just me, uh,

5:00:07being responsive to that feedback that

5:00:09we've received.

5:00:11Thank you.

5:00:13>> Okay. Okay. And then again, I'll note

5:00:14I'm only in the main motion, not the

5:00:15amendment. So, Miss Scout,

5:00:18>> thanks. I'll add to that um

5:00:23that the intent of this motion is to

5:00:26reflect the retention limits that I

5:00:31understand that we have an internal

5:00:32policy at this time. Chief Case can feel

5:00:35free to correct me on that. Um but in

5:00:38our work sessions on this policy and on

5:00:40the real-time crime center um I believe

5:00:43that the 14-day limit was what was

5:00:46shared with us is what exists internally

5:00:49and so just hoping to codify that

5:00:52practice.

5:00:53Thanks.

5:00:54>> Okay, Mr. Pres, for you on the amendment

5:00:57amendment five.

5:00:58>> Yep. If we could have the municipal

5:00:59attorney or someone from the

5:01:00administration speak to to the the

5:01:02rationale for removing this um in the

5:01:04version that they put put together.

5:01:09I through the chair. I actually do not

5:01:11recognize this language. Um, so I do not

5:01:14think if I'm looking at the right one.

5:01:16This is

5:01:17number five. Uh, and this is adding

5:01:21additional requirements.

5:01:22>> You said it was in the I'm sorry, Mr.

5:01:25Volen said it was in the original

5:01:26version.

5:01:27>> We had a a retention limit in the

5:01:29original version. Um, the municipal

5:01:30attorney did not help draft that

5:01:32version. She helped draft the S and that

5:01:33was not in the S.

5:01:34>> Right. So when you draft the question to

5:01:36you municipal attorney is when you

5:01:38drafted that version you had access to

5:01:40the original version and there was a

5:01:41decision made to not include this I

5:01:43would assume and that would I' I'd like

5:01:46to understand why you did not include

5:01:49this from the original version.

5:01:51>> Got it. Thank you. Um yes that question

5:01:54I can answer. So the original version

5:01:56did had a lot more specific restrictions

5:01:59and rules um like much more granular

5:02:01regulation of APD um use of information

5:02:06and the S version took an approach uh

5:02:09much earlier approach but a similar

5:02:10approach to what the assembly did with

5:02:11body warn camera uh video release policy

5:02:13and body camera policy which was to say

5:02:15you need to have a policy it has to

5:02:17contain certain things

5:02:19uh but it doesn't get into the specific

5:02:22details of and it has to say xyz. Uh and

5:02:26so that's the approach that the s

5:02:27version took. If you look at the

5:02:29sections on the license plate reader um

5:02:31and real-time crime center policy, it

5:02:33says you have to have a policy. It has

5:02:35to address these things and then it

5:02:37further says you have to give it to us

5:02:39and you have to tell us when it changes.

5:02:40Um but this level of granular detail of

5:02:43what exactly the policy has to say. um

5:02:45we just did not take that approach with

5:02:47the s to allow some operational

5:02:48flexibility while ensuring that the

5:02:50assembly would be promptly notified of

5:02:52any changes and would be have visibility

5:02:54and the public would also have

5:02:54visibility into the policy.

5:02:57>> Thank you. So would it be fair to say

5:02:59that this that that a robust discussion

5:03:01about whether this should be in

5:03:03department policy or not would be the

5:03:05the the proper place for it?

5:03:09I yes which I think would be a best

5:03:11suited to be a departmental decision

5:03:13because this level of you know this

5:03:14affects operations this directs

5:03:16operations at a much more detailed level

5:03:18and you know chief case is here uh if

5:03:19you'd like to hear from him on on this I

5:03:21don't know that it's ne necessary um but

5:03:23that is you know generally why we did

5:03:25not take this approach or put this in

5:03:28>> yeah thank you I don't need to hear from

5:03:30from from chief chief case thanks um I

5:03:31would just encourage my my colleagues to

5:03:33to vote no on this I think there's a

5:03:35there's a justifiable reason to not have

5:03:37it in the in in in the in in the the

5:03:42piece going forward. And I do think that

5:03:44there's a real opportunity for us once

5:03:46we maybe eventually get through this to

5:03:48have um another conversation about um

5:03:51Department of Public Policy. I think

5:03:52that's an ongoing and continuous

5:03:54conversation that we we should should be

5:03:55having and that's that's likely where

5:03:58this this conversation should should be.

5:03:59So I would encourage my colleagues to

5:04:01vote no on this amendment.

5:04:04>> Okay. Next, Miss Silvers on the

5:04:06amendment.

5:04:08Uh yes, thank you. Um and so I'm looking

5:04:11at this and it appears that it does a

5:04:13lot more than just requiring a 14-day

5:04:15retention limit on um

5:04:18automatic captured plate data. Um it

5:04:22says it requires all video, audio, and

5:04:24sensor data collected by routed through

5:04:26or recorded by a real-time crime center

5:04:29blah blah blah. Um, would this also uh

5:04:33include like um body warn cameras, dash

5:04:36cameras,

5:04:43>> and I believe that's a question to the

5:04:45sponsors. So, um,

5:04:46>> yeah,

5:04:46>> uh, Mr. Bowler, Miss Scout, if you want

5:04:48to respond when you're ready.

5:04:54It's all

5:04:57>> it's plate data and then it's um

5:05:01>> all video audio

5:05:02>> video audio sensor data collected by

5:05:05routed through or recorded by

5:05:08>> okay so body warn cameras and dash

5:05:11cameras

5:05:14>> yes other I I would I mean I'd defer to

5:05:17the municipal attorney I don't think so

5:05:20that was not the intent So we don't know

5:05:22what this includes. Okay. I have another

5:05:24question for chief case.

5:05:26>> Uh it's written in the language what

5:05:27this includes and it also excludes

5:05:31evidence that is being used in an

5:05:34[clears throat] investigation

5:05:37um or anything that's been requested by

5:05:42the public.

5:05:43>> Thank you. Um I have a question for

5:05:45Chief Case, please.

5:05:46>> Okay. Okay. And as he's walking up, I

5:05:48think just for everybody's awareness, we

5:05:49were looking at AO section five, uh, the

5:05:51on the back there.

5:05:53>> Go ahead, Chase.

5:05:54>> So, um, it was stated that you have a

5:05:5814-day retention limit. Now, I know you

5:06:00have a 14-day retention limit on license

5:06:02plate reader data. Um, do you have a

5:06:0514-day retention limit on all video,

5:06:07audio, and sensor data collected by,

5:06:09routed through, or recorded by a

5:06:11real-time crime center? Um, what about,

5:06:13uh, 911 calls? Would that be I I mean

5:06:20what about body warn camera and dash

5:06:22camera? I mean, does do you have a

5:06:2414-day limit in internal policy on all

5:06:26these items that could be captured under

5:06:28this

5:06:30>> through the chair member so the policy

5:06:34and I I want to kind of anchor this to

5:06:35policy just for a minute

5:06:38uh because the amendment has a lot of

5:06:42subcategories listed and I think some of

5:06:45the subcategories are listed for a lack

5:06:47of understanding of what what we what

5:06:49the policy actually means and says to

5:06:51us. So our policy in the real-time crime

5:06:53center policy under

5:06:56uh retention which is F3 I know you may

5:07:00not have the policy uh is that

5:07:03department owned cameras all camera

5:07:04feeds are stored for 14 days and then

5:07:08are deleted once the videos are captured

5:07:11and stored as evidence. So under the

5:07:13policy we're specifically talking about

5:07:15camera feeds coming in. It would exclude

5:07:17bodywn camera feeds. would exclude our

5:07:20uh dash camera feeds. I think there's

5:07:22certainly some legislative intent as

5:07:25well as some public attent uh intent

5:07:27that those two particular feeds which

5:07:30technically could be viewed in the

5:07:33real-time crime center but are not

5:07:34actively monitored uh we don't tap into

5:07:36those uh that we keep that data a little

5:07:40bit longer than that 14day for a whole

5:07:42host of reasons. Uh so that's what the

5:07:46policy says and anything outside

5:07:50of or anything that's of evidential

5:07:52value associated with any case a

5:07:54criminal case that gets stored under

5:07:58evidence retention. And as we store it,

5:08:01we know who stores it, we know when they

5:08:03store it, we know how long the retention

5:08:06period is on on that. That's all part of

5:08:07the retention process that we have. And

5:08:12so I think the policy and how we retain

5:08:14the data that this

5:08:18really language is unnecessary because

5:08:19we

5:08:21anything we don't use is gone in terms

5:08:24of camera feeds and then the ALPR policy

5:08:27we specifically have the language on the

5:08:28retention that that data is deleted and

5:08:32it's automatically deleted within that

5:08:34or at that 14-day period as well. Uh,

5:08:40also of interest is that we don't

5:08:42actually pull we can't take that data

5:08:44like for instance that picture that it

5:08:46captures of the plate. We don't ever

5:08:48take that out and then stick that into

5:08:51our evidence retention system. We just

5:08:54that's not how that's not how that

5:08:56works. There's really not anything to

5:08:58retain after that 14 days. We can find

5:09:00it and we can use it as a piece of an

5:09:02investigation, but it doesn't the that

5:09:04stuff's gone after 14 days.

5:09:08Okay. I guess what my concern is is that

5:09:11this amendment would inadvertently um

5:09:14apply the 14-day retention limit uh to

5:09:17things like bodywn uh camera or dash

5:09:20camera or or other things that um may

5:09:23have a longer retention limit. Um, and

5:09:26I'm particularly interested in

5:09:29protecting our bodywn camera and our

5:09:32dash camera ability to use them to their

5:09:35fullest because these are voter

5:09:37approved, right?

5:09:40This is what the public wanted for

5:09:44transparency.

5:09:46Um, and so I'm particularly concerned

5:09:49with any amendment that may kind of

5:09:52jeopardize our ability to use those to

5:09:54our to their fullest. Um, so I I guess

5:09:57the question that I'm trying to to get

5:09:59to is is would this amendment

5:10:02limit

5:10:04retention on anything that you don't

5:10:06already limit in your department policy?

5:10:12I think that question may be more suited

5:10:14for uh the municipal attorney.

5:10:17It's a bit of a legal question.

5:10:20>> Okay. I invite Miss Gardner to respond

5:10:23>> through the chair. So this as I

5:10:26understand this amendment, it actually

5:10:27amends the two section one section on

5:10:30auto on ALPRs and one section on

5:10:33real-time crime center. And I think it

5:10:34amends the sections that say you need to

5:10:36have a policy that does XYZ. And so this

5:10:39would add a section um in those policies

5:10:43that require that has mandatory

5:10:46um

5:10:47retention time frames. So I think it

5:10:50would only apply as I read it to real

5:10:52time crime center and license plate

5:10:53reader data. Um I will say we have a

5:10:57consist consistent theme in some

5:10:59questions we've gotten has been why

5:11:00aren't you why are you resistant to

5:11:02putting a specific number of days in

5:11:04code for the for the retention time

5:11:05frame for the mandatory deletion? And

5:11:07the answer to that is well if

5:11:09operational needs change slightly right

5:11:11if for some reason the setting changes

5:11:13and you need to retain it for 15 days

5:11:15instead of 14 or 13 instead of 14 or 14

5:11:18and a half days instead of 14 then it

5:11:20requires an ordinance in order to not be

5:11:22in violation of the chapter. And so

5:11:24allowing some degree of you know

5:11:25operational flexibility there with again

5:11:28the requirement to notify the assembly

5:11:29of any change to the retention time

5:11:31frame which um in the policy which is a

5:11:34requirement in the S version. Any change

5:11:36to the num number of days or the amount

5:11:38of time you keep data in these sections

5:11:40has to be reported promptly to the

5:11:41assembly. That gives the assembly again

5:11:43the ability to uh step into its

5:11:45oversight role and say well actually you

5:11:47need to put it back. You know you can't

5:11:48have it be 300 days. That doesn't sound

5:11:50good to us. um or oh yeah, 15 days

5:11:52sounds fine. That's a minimal change. Uh

5:11:54thanks for letting us know. But it would

5:11:56give the assembly again close to

5:11:58real-time information that it could use

5:11:59to take further action if needed without

5:12:02requiring an ordinance to make minor

5:12:04changes.

5:12:06>> Okay. Thank you.

5:12:08>> Okay. Next, I have uh Miss Scout.

5:12:13>> Thank you. Um I adding on to what

5:12:16municipal municipal attorney Gardner

5:12:19just shared. Um, I

5:12:23want to note that right now the

5:12:25retention of video from bodywn cameras

5:12:28for um, at a minimum non-rime and

5:12:32traffic incidents is two years. And so

5:12:35that's the internal policy that would

5:12:38continue forward um, which is unrelated

5:12:41to this amendment or unaffected by this

5:12:45amendment.

5:12:48Thanks.

5:12:50Okay, next. Mr. Handelin,

5:12:52>> I've got a question for Chief Case.

5:12:56So, uh, with this, are body cams are do

5:13:00those go through the Realtime Crime

5:13:01Center currently?

5:13:05>> Through the chair member Handlin, yes

5:13:06and no.

5:13:07>> Yes and no.

5:13:08>> Um, generally no. Uh, however, we can

5:13:12because the body warn camera as well as

5:13:14the dash camera has each have individual

5:13:16cellular feeds and we have tested this.

5:13:18So we know that we have the capability

5:13:20to do this. We can uh remote

5:13:24turn on off or watch what's happening on

5:13:28those two devices in real time.

5:13:32>> There's some reasons why we don't do

5:13:34that on a regular basis, but so and that

5:13:37would be viewed in the real time crime

5:13:38center.

5:13:39>> Okay. And then so I mean as you I'm not

5:13:41sure if you've had a chance to kind of

5:13:43look through this amendment fully, but I

5:13:46guess there are there aspects of what's

5:13:49currently in uh department policy that

5:13:52we would essentially have to change to

5:13:55comply with this.

5:13:59Well, I think the department policy

5:14:00would have to reflect all of the the

5:14:04subsections of this. So, not just the

5:14:0614-day, it's then all of the

5:14:08requirements about evidence and and who

5:14:11logged in the evidence that's in this

5:14:13particular amendment. So, we'd obviously

5:14:15have to put that in policy so that the

5:14:17policy reflects the exact language in

5:14:19the code because we certainly want to

5:14:22unintentionally violate the code because

5:14:25we didn't have the exact verbiage in

5:14:26there.

5:14:27>> Okay. Because yeah, I mean, it sounded

5:14:28like from the sponsors, maybe I confused

5:14:31this a little bit. It sounded like this

5:14:32was I guess kind of what is currently in

5:14:34department policy and putting putting

5:14:37some of that into code. And so maybe I'm

5:14:40in incorrect from your guys's

5:14:42characterization on that. So maybe I'll

5:14:43def a question to the sponsors there.

5:14:45>> No, I I appreciate that. That is the

5:14:46intent. Um what is listed here in the

5:14:50subsections is

5:14:53when it can be kept for longer.

5:14:56Um and so maybe there's a little bit of

5:14:58confusion around that. Um

5:15:01so the capture plate data for instance

5:15:04shall be permanently deleted no later

5:15:06than 14 days after capture unless

5:15:10specified in in this section. It may be

5:15:12retained beyond in the case of XYZ.

5:15:18>> Yeah. And okay so yeah that's the the

5:15:22end of any of the questions. And so I

5:15:23just have some comments that I mean I

5:15:25think that us having a I guess minimum

5:15:30amount here or a maximum amount is is

5:15:32not a bad thing. I mean I mean hearing

5:15:36from the municipal attorney of oh hey

5:15:37that might need to be be adjusted in the

5:15:40future. That's something that that could

5:15:41come before the assembly. But

5:15:43essentially, I mean, department policy,

5:15:44we're setting, hey, here's the maximum

5:15:47amount that the us as members of the

5:15:50assembly representing the public are

5:15:52okay with. So, I'm not necessarily

5:15:54opposed to a set time. Is 14 days the

5:15:58right number?

5:16:00I'm not sure, but I think that us having

5:16:03some number in place should be

5:16:04important.

5:16:09>> Okay. Um, next, Miss Baldwin Day.

5:16:13Uh, Chief Case, please don't go far.

5:16:18Thank you, chair. Um, Chief, in this,

5:16:21um, in this amendment, uh, where we're

5:16:22we're amending,

5:16:24um, section six,

5:16:29uh, license plate reader data, how how

5:16:31does this how does this encode square

5:16:34with existing policy at APD?

5:16:41to the chair member Baldwin Day. I I

5:16:43always ask that we make this stuff as

5:16:46simple as possible.

5:16:48The policy that we have is very simple

5:16:51on this section. It is 14 days it's

5:16:53deleted unless it's attached to a

5:16:56criminal case. I believe that language

5:16:58within the policy which is very simple

5:17:00and clear is going to comply with

5:17:05the spirit and the intent of everything

5:17:07in this particular section.

5:17:08>> Gotcha. Uh, and then also just to add on

5:17:11to that, of course, the notification I

5:17:13think is important that we always

5:17:14remember that if we want to change this

5:17:16to 20, you folks are going to know and

5:17:19that's in the that's in the S version.

5:17:21>> Yes. Um, and I think I'm going to have

5:17:24some things to say about that later

5:17:25actually. Um

5:17:28so

5:17:29I think

5:17:31so so it it [clears throat] seems to me

5:17:33that policy existing policy squares with

5:17:39what is being listed here as

5:17:41requirements for captured plate data

5:17:43with respect to video audio and sensor

5:17:46data. Um and this may be less of a

5:17:49question for you and more of a question

5:17:50for Miss Gardner. Um, I think I'm a

5:17:52little perplexed by the inclusion of the

5:17:53phrase a camera owned or operated by the

5:17:56municipality because that feels like we

5:17:59are now expanding

5:18:02we are now expanding the scope of what

5:18:05is actually coming to or through the

5:18:09real-time crime center to a camera owned

5:18:11or operated by the municipality

5:18:14or an integrated camera feed which is a

5:18:17separate question. And so I'd like to

5:18:20understand how that clause does not

5:18:23implicate dash cams and bodywn cameras

5:18:25because I think those have a longer

5:18:28retention lifespan on purpose

5:18:32and I would not want to abregate that

5:18:35and I also feel like that is like

5:18:39zooming us out into a place. I also

5:18:41don't want us to be in a situation where

5:18:43where

5:18:45other cameras owned and operated by the

5:18:47municipality are now constrained by this

5:18:5014-day period. For example,

5:18:53when our traffic engineers put up their

5:18:56own cameras to do traffic counts and to

5:18:59look at pedestrian movements and turning

5:19:01movements and crossings and then send

5:19:03that information elsewhere to be

5:19:06processed so that we have good data on

5:19:09traffic and pedestrians. I I don't want

5:19:12us to create a catch-all and I'm I'm

5:19:14concerned that this particular clause

5:19:16starts to tiptoe into that territory.

5:19:19Um, so would you clarify how you read

5:19:22that clause and whether we have just

5:19:24broadened the scope again to include

5:19:26things that we didn't potentially intend

5:19:27to include.

5:19:39>> Uh, sorry, could you repeat the the last

5:19:41bit of the question? I heard most of it,

5:19:43but

5:19:45>> yeah, I'm I'm cur I'm wondering if the

5:19:47clause a camera owned or operated by the

5:19:49municipality

5:19:51does actually include dash cams, bodywn

5:19:54cameras, cameras that traffic uses for

5:19:56data collection. Uh are have we just

5:19:59zoomed out to something that's much

5:20:01broader than all video audio and sensor

5:20:03data collected by routed through or

5:20:05recorded by a real-time crime center? uh

5:20:08through the chair. So, I'll say I mean

5:20:10this language is not something that we

5:20:12have workshopped um but this this

5:20:14section is located within the section of

5:20:16the S version that addresses real-time

5:20:18crime center policy. So, it would be

5:20:20within an APD policy. I think that the

5:20:23uh language is maybe not as tight as it

5:20:25could be. Uh uh and I would say do not

5:20:29support this amendment. Should put that

5:20:31out there. Um, but I think it would only

5:20:33apply to feeds that are part

5:20:36incorporated into the real-time crime

5:20:37center or that come through the

5:20:38real-time crime center in some way. Um,

5:20:43so I don't think it would apply to, you

5:20:45know, any camera owned by the

5:20:46municipality as a whole.

5:20:48>> Okay. Um,

5:20:51however, in the event that a bodywn

5:20:55camera

5:20:56was accessed via the real-time crime

5:20:59center, this 14-day

5:21:03retention would apply then to that

5:21:06specific footage

5:21:09unless

5:21:11A through D A, B, C or D were met. Is

5:21:16that correct?

5:21:17>> I think so. And again, the language um

5:21:20is not super clear because uh you'd

5:21:23think that if the body warn camera

5:21:24footage came through the real-time crime

5:21:26center in some way, then it would be

5:21:27covered under the first two the first

5:21:29part of the sentence. Um, so again, not

5:21:33entirely clear what is intended by that,

5:21:34but I don't think it could. So I think

5:21:36it would apply to bodyboard camera

5:21:37footage that was routed through the

5:21:38real-time crime center or that came into

5:21:40it, but that would already be covered by

5:21:41the first sentence. So I'm not sure

5:21:42exactly what work that the clause about

5:21:44municipally uh owned cameras is doing.

5:21:48>> Okay, that thank you. That that's

5:21:49helpful. I'm I'm I'm

5:21:54really I'm acutely aware that that dash

5:21:56cams and body warn cameras have a longer

5:21:58retention on purpose and it is because

5:22:00we want to be able to see we want

5:22:02transparency into APD operations and I

5:22:06am really wary of anything that starts

5:22:09to get us into territory where we might

5:22:11be abregating that um because that is

5:22:14for the purposes of again transparency

5:22:17which is the point I think of a lot of

5:22:19this Um, so I I think I'm

5:22:24I'm really I'm pretty I'm disincclined

5:22:27to support this sort of second chunk of

5:22:31the amendment. I the fact that the first

5:22:35chunk squares with existing policy and

5:22:37and seems to be a fairly straightforward

5:22:42um item is I think fine. Um, but this

5:22:45this the second bit I I is a little

5:22:48squishy and I I don't think I can

5:22:50support that. Thank you.

5:22:53>> Okay. Next, Mr. Bond,

5:23:04I think. Okay. So I I guess I I want to

5:23:07hear maybe just for all of our

5:23:09edification one more time from the

5:23:11municipal attorney on how this

5:23:13essentially what this is amending how

5:23:15this interacts with code um that sort of

5:23:18ties it to

5:23:22uh essentially that brings it away from

5:23:24you know just any other random camera.

5:23:27Um I I think you've said that a couple

5:23:29times but can you restate that

5:23:32>> through the chair? Uh this amendment

5:23:34would be located within the section of

5:23:36the S version that addresses the

5:23:38real-time crime center. Uh so it would

5:23:41be a component replacing currently

5:23:44subsection 9 of a component

5:23:46[clears throat] that would be required

5:23:47to be an APD policy for the real time

5:23:49crime center.

5:23:50>> Right. Um

5:23:54okay. So, I you know, I I I think I

5:23:56guess I just want us all to maybe hear

5:23:59that, you know, this is not I don't

5:24:02think that this is opening the door to

5:24:05body warn cameras or other, you know,

5:24:07traffic cameras. I think that this is

5:24:09specific um in sort of like where it

5:24:11lands in the ordinance, but um maybe an

5:24:16opportunity because I feel like we've

5:24:19heard quite a bit from the municipal

5:24:20attorney, which I'm grateful for, but we

5:24:21also have assembly attorneys and you

5:24:24guys have been uh kind of quiet. We're

5:24:25letting you off the hook too easily. Uh

5:24:28[laughter] do you want to maybe speak um

5:24:31in in terms of how you uh your

5:24:34assessment um of that question of you

5:24:37know how would this impact um traffic

5:24:39cameras or um things that are maybe not

5:24:43in the scope of what we're trying to do

5:24:45here.

5:24:47>> [snorts]

5:24:48>> Uh so first I would concur with the

5:24:50municipal attorney's assessment that

5:24:52this amendment is only affecting the

5:24:55policy

5:24:57regarding real-time crime center

5:24:59operations.

5:25:00So I think it would be a stretch to read

5:25:03it as

5:25:05affecting anything outside the scope of

5:25:08real-time crime center operations.

5:25:10Additionally, I think there's a limiting

5:25:13um factor of the definition of

5:25:15surveillance data used initially up

5:25:17front. And while the term data has a lot

5:25:20of modifiers in it in this section, I

5:25:22think it's fair [clears throat] to read

5:25:23that is within the definition of

5:25:25surveillance data which excludes things

5:25:27like traffic cameras and things other

5:25:29things like that.

5:25:31>> [sighs and gasps]

5:25:31>> Um,

5:25:33I mean, yeah, if you if the sponsors

5:25:37wanted to be

5:25:39entirely clear regarding that it was

5:25:41supposed to be limited to the real time

5:25:43crime center, then deleting the language

5:25:46um,

5:25:48following the routed, recorded, or sent

5:25:52through the real time crime center uh,

5:25:54might aid in clarifying that. But to

5:25:57answer the

5:25:59member's question, yeah, I agree with

5:26:00the municipal attorney's opinion that

5:26:03this is confined to real time crime

5:26:06center operations.

5:26:08Okay. So then, um I I think what I I'm

5:26:12hearing you suggest is that there could

5:26:13be a removal of the phrase a camera

5:26:16owned or operated by the municipality

5:26:20and the rest of the intent of the

5:26:21amendment would be unimpacted. I I think

5:26:26that would clarify. Yes.

5:26:27>> But more clear. Okay. Thanks. So, I

5:26:29think I will make that amendment to the

5:26:30amendment then to strike that language.

5:26:32A camera owned or operated by the

5:26:34municipality.

5:26:35>> Okay. There's a motion by Mr. Bullen to

5:26:37strike the phrase in the amendment um

5:26:39the phrase a camera owned or operated by

5:26:42the municipality under section five

5:26:44number nine. Is there a second?

5:26:45>> Second.

5:26:46>> Second.

5:26:47>> A second from Miss Scout. Um any further

5:26:49comments on that?

5:26:51>> No, thank you.

5:26:52>> Okay. Um, Miss Baldwin Day, I'm not in

5:26:54for I'm in for the main uh is Miss

5:26:56Baldwin Day, are you in on this

5:26:57amendment to the amendment?

5:27:05Okay. Uh, one second.

5:27:14Okay. And the clerk is catching up on

5:27:16this verbal amendment.

5:27:25And then once it's up on the screen,

5:27:26we'll proceed.

5:27:58Okay. Um, does that match the intent or

5:28:00does that I think that is correct.

5:28:05>> Okay. Uh, I don't see any other members

5:28:07in the queue on this amendment to the

5:28:09amendment. So, um, members may proceed

5:28:10to vote. This is amending uh, amendment

5:28:13number five.

5:28:29Okay. On a vote to 10 to two, that

5:28:31amendment to the amendment passes. Um,

5:28:33back again, I'm in the main motion, Miss

5:28:35Baldwin Day.

5:28:38>> Yeah. Thank you. Um, I I think I I have

5:28:40a a follow-up question for the chief.

5:28:54Um, sorry. What's your point?

5:28:57>> Yeah, sorry. I'm I'm for the underlying

5:28:59motion, not the amendment.

5:29:03>> Um, thank you and apologies for dragging

5:29:06you back up here. Um can you um

5:29:11can you en envision a a scenario in

5:29:14which

5:29:18in which

5:29:19license plate reader data would be

5:29:22retained beyond 14 days

5:29:26>> through the chair member Baldwin Day?

5:29:28Yes. Um I think there's really two

5:29:32things that we would consider. The first

5:29:33is some version of public outcry. uh we

5:29:36have an incident that members of the

5:29:39community want, you know, someone died,

5:29:42someone's missing, one of these cases

5:29:44where potentially that data could have

5:29:46been used to help

5:29:49um locate that person or solve a case

5:29:52and that becomes of significant public

5:29:55importance. Um and then for general

5:29:57public safety, general public safety

5:30:01changes. So for example

5:30:03um today one of the things that was

5:30:06brought up at an early meeting that I

5:30:07was in today uh at the uh elers and

5:30:11youth conference was more use of

5:30:14cellular tracking ability

5:30:17because obviously what's of high

5:30:19importance to that community is uh the

5:30:22MMIP response not only here in Anchorage

5:30:23but throughout the state of Alaska. And

5:30:26so,

5:30:28although I understand the intent of a

5:30:29lot of this, we, you know, I mean, your

5:30:31job's different than mine. My job is to

5:30:33address public safety needs. And so,

5:30:35that would be an example of, you know, a

5:30:38a community that's suffering, you know,

5:30:40a sub substantial loss or or criminal

5:30:42activity that we would consider changing

5:30:45the date uh or changing some of these

5:30:47policy considerations that we have so we

5:30:49can better address their needs. Uh I do

5:30:51think that that that that one of the

5:30:53things that is important is that the

5:30:55requirement to have that conversation,

5:30:56but it's also part of my job is to

5:30:58educate the public and educate the

5:31:00elected body on some of those changes

5:31:02that take place. Uh some of the the the

5:31:05challenges like missing people or or you

5:31:08know, homicide rates in certain

5:31:10communities that we need to change our

5:31:12approach to better respond to those

5:31:14types of crimes.

5:31:17>> Fascinating. So,

5:31:20I just I want to repeat that repeat back

5:31:21what I I think I just heard from you and

5:31:23that is that uh you were in a meeting

5:31:26today at the elders and youth conference

5:31:28where folks were concerned about

5:31:30murdered and missing indigenous persons

5:31:32and we're we're asking you for for

5:31:35additional

5:31:37timeline like longer longer timelines to

5:31:40be able to look at this data or or um

5:31:45use specific types of cell tracking

5:31:47techn technology to be able to locate

5:31:49missing persons in their community.

5:31:52>> So the specifically the ask at this

5:31:54conference was uh more tools to be able

5:31:57to better track

5:32:00cell phone data

5:32:02>> so that we can use

5:32:04you know generally any any tool that we

5:32:06could find to be able to track things

5:32:08that are in their phone that has GPS

5:32:10locations in it. So not just a AT&T ping

5:32:14uh which we know that exists then we can

5:32:16use that under certain circumstances

5:32:17other carriers as well. Uh there's

5:32:19certain reasons why we can do that but

5:32:21uh to use other technologies that could

5:32:23help us. It doesn't always work. Phones

5:32:25get turned off. There's other

5:32:26technologies that can help us. That

5:32:27essentially what they were asking for is

5:32:29we have these cell phones abilities that

5:32:31can help us find our loved ones.

5:32:33you know, can can law enforcement tell

5:32:36the entire state of Alaska? Their

5:32:38request is, can we invest more of that

5:32:39technology so you can help find our

5:32:41loved ones? It was was part of the

5:32:44conversation.

5:32:44>> Madam Chair, I would just want to break

5:32:46in because we need to extend um if we're

5:32:48going to continue debate. So, I move to

5:32:50extend the meeting and debate on this

5:32:53item to 11:30.

5:32:55>> Second.

5:32:56>> Okay. There's a motion to extend by Mr.

5:32:57Volins uh both the meeting itself and

5:32:59the debate to 11:30. Second by Mr.

5:33:01Handeland. Um, is there any objection to

5:33:03that?

5:33:03>> I object.

5:33:04>> Okay, then we will take a vote.

5:33:25Okay. Uh, the motion to extend the

5:33:27meeting and the debate to 11:30 p.m. uh

5:33:29needs eight votes to pass.

5:33:35Motion to postpone debate till the next

5:33:38regular meeting uh November 4th.

5:33:41>> Second.

5:33:42>> Okay. There's a motion from Mr.

5:33:43McCormack to uh continue uh or postpone

5:33:46this item continue debate to the meeting

5:33:48of November 4, second by Mr. Voland. Uh

5:33:51any discussion on that, Mr. McCormick?

5:33:54>> No.

5:33:56>> Okay. I will say um it is very

5:33:59unrealistic that we would um probably

5:34:02get through this and the other item

5:34:03that's already on the meeting of

5:34:04November 4. So as long as the

5:34:06expectation is this could go further

5:34:07out. Um so I would also suggest we

5:34:09consider uh a future meeting. I know

5:34:11it's hard because we're getting stacked

5:34:12up on a number of other things

5:34:15just for consideration.

5:34:23I guess I'll ask is there anyone else

5:34:25who would like to speak to this? So I

5:34:26I'm not in the queue for this. Mr.

5:34:27Presidia, are you in the queue for this

5:34:29item or

5:34:30>> Yes, I would like to speak to it.

5:34:31>> Okay, go ahead.

5:34:32>> Yeah, I I think

5:34:33>> we have two minutes.

5:34:34>> I I I think we have maybe an um a narrow

5:34:36view of what the real time crime center

5:34:38is and so I just want you to speak to

5:34:39this. Is that what it is now and what it

5:34:41could potentially be in in in the future

5:34:43as a center for

5:34:44>> Sorry, m Mr. We're right now we're

5:34:46debating

5:34:47>> understand the the the the

5:34:50amendment.

5:34:51>> We're we're right now we're debating to

5:34:52postpone to a time certain because the

5:34:54meeting has failed. So, we have two

5:34:55minutes to make some I don't need to

5:34:57speak.

5:34:57>> It's okay. Um, uh, Miss Silvers on

5:35:00extension. Mr. Roland on extension. Miss

5:35:02Baldwin Day on extension.

5:35:04>> Yeah. I'm curious what else we have on

5:35:06the docket for November 4th and if we

5:35:07ought to look at the 17th instead.

5:35:14>> Okay. Um, I will note on the docket we

5:35:16do have uh AO2685 MHOP. We also have a

5:35:19number of items that we moved the public

5:35:21hearing to the fourth. Uh we have our

5:35:23budget hearings which as we saw did not

5:35:24take that long but we don't know if that

5:35:26will be the case next time. On the 17th

5:35:28we have the budget. Um and so far we

5:35:30have not put a bunch of other items on

5:35:31that. So the gamble would be how long

5:35:33would it take us to do the budget on the

5:35:3517th?

5:35:36>> Thank you Mr. Vand.

5:35:39>> We should vote.

5:35:40>> Okay. Uh members may proceed to vote on

5:35:42this.

5:35:48Sorry we're voting on the motion to

5:35:50postpone to the next meeting.

5:35:58Okay. On a vote of 11 to one, um, this

5:36:01item is postponed to the next meeting.

5:36:04>> Point of information.

5:36:05>> What is your point of information, Mr.

5:36:06G?

5:36:06>> If we had not passed that, wouldn't it

5:36:08automatically have gone to the next

5:36:09meeting as well? [laughter]

5:36:12>> No, we have to vote on it.

5:36:14>> Yeah. Well, it could have rolled to the

5:36:15next meeting. Um, the practical reality

5:36:18is that someone could have chosen a

5:36:19different time. So there's still

5:36:20sometime or a different meeting. Um

5:36:24okay. So uh with that we uh it's 10:59.

5:36:26We do not have sufficient time to do

5:36:28audience participation. This meeting was

5:36:30not extended. So it is 11 p.m. We are

5:36:32adjourned.

5:36:44>> I keep it all. [music]

5:36:46I keep it all. I keep it all alone. I

5:36:50keep it all alone. I keep it all alone.

5:36:53I keep it keep it keep I keep your room

5:36:56is in your eyes gazing. Nobody else

5:37:01falls.

5:37:03Thank

5:37:07you.

5:37:11If they owe me money, if they owe me

5:37:14something, let's go around and

5:37:19say I'm not very lucky. If they [music]

5:37:22owe me somethingless.