2026-10-13 - City Council (formal meeting)

00:00Okay, we're on we're live. Uh, welcome

00:02to the Asheville City Council meeting

00:04for October 13, 2026. Could you please

00:07take a moment to silence your cell

00:09phones?

00:11Uh, and if you want to sign up to speak

00:14under any of the agenda items, you can

00:16do so out in the hall. Um, and if you

00:21change your mind and you didn't sign up

00:22to speak under about for something, you

00:24can go out at any time and sign up to

00:26speak. So, um, with that, please rise

00:29for the pledge of allegiance.

00:35I pledge algiance to the flag of the

00:38United States of America and to the

00:41republic for which it stands, one nation

00:44under God, indivisible, with liberty and

00:48justice for all.

00:55>> Um, okay. I am going to read our chamber

00:57decorum statement. Members of the public

00:59attending council meetings or addressing

01:01the council shall abide by the following

01:03rules. Everyone shall follow the

01:05instructions of the mayor or any other

01:07presiding officer or official and shall

01:10refrain from impeding or interrupting

01:12the conduct of business. This shall

01:14include but not be limited to clapping,

01:17yelling, or other audio expressions of

01:20approval or disapproval of comments made

01:22during the meeting. Persons addressing

01:24the council are expected to observe the

01:26decorum of the chamber, to be respectful

01:28of the council and the public, to

01:30refrain from the use of profanity or

01:32foul language, to refrain from personal

01:35attacks and commentary on candidates for

01:37political office, and to refrain from

01:40making disclosures prohibited by the

01:42personnel privacy act with respect to

01:43any city employee. Failure to abide by

01:46these rules may subject you to removal

01:48from the council chamber. All right. Um

01:52f so council we have two proclamations.

01:55The first is domestic violence

01:58prevention and awareness month and uh

02:02council member Maggie man is going to

02:03present this proclamation and we have uh

02:06both Kaitlyn Kaitlyn I think or Kaitlyn

02:10Kate I don't know Doyle and April

02:12Burgess Johnson here for this and anyone

02:15else you have with you please feel free

02:16to bring forward.

02:20Yes, you can.

02:25Okay. Is it K or K?

02:29>> That's an L.

02:31>> No, it's an R. I don't know.

02:39>> Yes, that's the proclamation microphone.

02:41>> This is the proclamation microphone.

02:42>> Okay.

02:45Whereas domestic violence is a ser

02:47serious crime that violates an

02:49individual's security and humanity due

02:51to the systemic use of emotional,

02:53psychological, physical, sexual, and

02:55economic control. And whereas an average

02:58of 24 people per minute experience rape,

03:01physical violence, and/or stalking by an

03:03intimate partner in our country. More

03:06than 12 million people over the course

03:08of a single year. And whereas the

03:10problems of domestic violence are not

03:11confined to any specific groups of

03:13people, but can happen to anyone

03:15regardless of racial or ethnic identity,

03:17sexual orientation, education level,

03:19socioeconomic status, gender identity or

03:22religious beliefs. And these problems

03:24are sustained by societal indifference.

03:26And whereas intersecting layers of

03:29vulnerability due to race, ethnicity,

03:31gender identity, sexual orientation,

03:33age, ability, religion, spirituality,

03:36citizenship status, and spoken language

03:39in the context of American society make

03:41it easier for abusers to isolate,

03:44control, and create and sustain power

03:45over survivors with marginalized

03:48identities. And whereas children who

03:50grow up witnessing domestic violence in

03:53their homes are deeply impacted and are

03:55more likely to have trouble in school,

03:57more likely to perpetuate and be

03:59victimized by violence themselves, and

04:01more likely to experience long-term

04:03mental and physical health challenges.

04:06And whereas survivors should have helped

04:08to find the compassion, comfort, and

04:10healing they need, and abusers should be

04:12held accountable for their violent

04:13behavior. And whereas powerful

04:16partnerships exist locally between many

04:18nonprofit and governmental organizations

04:20that are committed to supporting

04:21survivors in their journey towards

04:23safety and healing. And whereas it is a

04:26surviv it is survivors of abuse who have

04:29been at the forefront of efforts to

04:31bring peace and equality to the home.

04:34And whereas domestic violence awareness

04:35month is an opportunity to stand with

04:37survivors to celebrate the progress we

04:39have made in combating these crimes and

04:42to recommmit to preventing domestic

04:43violence in our community. Now

04:45therefore, our mayor, Esther Mannheimr,

04:47city of Asheville declares October 2026

04:50domestic violence awareness month and

04:52urges residents to make the commitment

04:54to stop domestic violence by speaking

04:56out against it and learning more about

04:58the resources available to survivors and

05:01their families.

05:05>> [applause]

05:14>> Thank you so much to Council Member uh

05:17Olman, uh to Mayor Mannheimr, and to all

05:20of city council. We really appreciate

05:22this uh symbolic rec uh symbolic

05:26recognition of the scourge that is

05:29domestic violence. Last year alone,

05:32Helpmate served 3,217

05:36families in our community. That's 3,217

05:41times that somebody experienced violence

05:44and dehumanization at the hands of

05:46somebody who promised to love them. Uh,

05:49of those folks that we served, 580 came

05:53to us through the lethality assessment

05:55protocol,

05:56uh, evidence-based program that we share

05:59with the Asheville Police Department

06:01where law enforcement officers call for

06:03help on behalf of victims from the crime

06:06scene when they [clears throat] respond

06:07to domestic violence.

06:09We also provided shelter uh to 112

06:13adults and 36 children right here in our

06:16community who had to flee their homes

06:18and were rendered homeless because of

06:20the domestic violence that they

06:22experienced. At the same time, another

06:24300 families called us looking for

06:27emergency shelter, but we were full. In

06:30recognition of that fact and the fact

06:33that lack of available domestic violence

06:35shelter is a high contributor to

06:37domestic violence homicides, Helpmate

06:39has planned, fundraised for, and built

06:44Joyy's House, a 43 bed domestic violence

06:48shelter, which will help us ensure that

06:51we save lives uh as people flee from

06:54domestic violence. I'm so grateful to

06:57this city and this council for the

06:59historic investment that you made uh in

07:01making Joyy's House possible. What you

07:04made possible was uh not just more beds,

07:08but better space for survivors.

07:12We'll have private living suites where

07:14folks can heal from their trauma and not

07:16have to share a room with a stranger.

07:19We'll have designated children's play

07:21spaces uh that are within sight of our

07:24kitchen uh so that families can prepare

07:27meals and know that their children are

07:29supervised and well cared for. We'll

07:32have an on-site counseling center where

07:34people can get their emotional and

07:36mental health [snorts] needs right there

07:38on site at our emergency shelter. And

07:41none of this would have been possible

07:42without the historic investment from the

07:44city of Asheville. We invite each

07:47council member uh to join us for our

07:49grand opening. Uh we'd love to see an

07:51email from you. We'll make sure that you

07:53get all of those details so that you can

07:55join us. Also want to highlight for you

07:58today the Porch Light project. Porch

08:00Light is an innovative uh homegrown uh

08:04right here in Bunkome County approach to

08:06addressing domestic violence. We've

08:09recognized that there are many survivors

08:10who are not able to access a phone

08:13either because their phone has been

08:14taken or is stalked by uh their abusive

08:18partner. And this partnership with more

08:21than 70 businesses in our community

08:23guarantees that survivors can walk into

08:25any porch light location and be able to

08:28safely call for help and to reach out to

08:31Helpmate or our voices hotline or to

08:34emergency services to get the help that

08:36they need. So, we encourage you to

08:38continue to promote this um this local

08:42project which is beginning to have a

08:44regional impact. Thank you so much for

08:47this recognition and for the important

08:49work that you do every day. I'm an

08:51honor. I'm honored to be part of the

08:53city of Asheville. I appreciate you all.

08:55>> Thank you.

08:55>> Thank you. [applause]

09:15>> [snorts]

09:16>> Okay, we have um one more proclamation

09:18tonight and that is um National Diabetes

09:22Awareness Month and we have Joanne and

09:24Jeremy Rinker here and if you have

09:25anybody else with you, please feel free

09:27to come forward.

09:54They're all over the

09:56>> All right, here we go. Whereas diabetes

09:58is a chronic disease affecting more than

10:0038 million Americans, including hundreds

10:02of thousands of North Carolinians, and

10:05remains a leading cause of heart

10:06disease, kidney disease, vision loss,

10:08nerve damage, and other serious health

10:10complications. And whereas early

10:12detection, access to quality healthcare,

10:14diabetes self-management, education,

10:17healthy nutrition, physical activity,

10:19and advances in diabetes technology can

10:22significantly improve health outcomes

10:24and quality of life for individuals with

10:25diabetes. And whereas National Diabetes

10:28Awareness Month provides an opportunity

10:31to increase public understanding of

10:32diabetes, reduce stigma, encourage

10:34prevention and early screening, and

10:37recognize the dedication of individuals

10:39living with diabetes, their families,

10:40caregivers, health care professionals,

10:43researchers, educators, advocates, and

10:45community organizations working to

10:47improve diabetes care and outcomes.

10:49Whereas, the North Carolina Diabetes

10:52Advisory Council works collaboratively

10:54with partners across the state to

10:55advance diabetes awareness, education,

10:58prevention, equitable access to care,

11:00and improved health outcomes for all

11:02North Carolinians. And whereas the city

11:04of Asheville recognizes the importance

11:06of promoting public health, advancing

11:08health equity, supporting community

11:10partnerships, and encouraging residents

11:11to learn about diabetes prevention,

11:13management, and available resources. Now

11:16therefore, I, Esther Manheimer, mayor of

11:17the city of Asheville, do hereby

11:19proclaim November 2026 as National

11:22Diabetes Awareness Month in the city of

11:24Asheville and encourage all residents to

11:26participate in educational programs,

11:28community events, and activities that

11:30promote diabetes awareness, prevention,

11:33early detection, and support for all

11:35those affected by diabetes.

11:38[applause]

11:44Thank you. I just want to thank the city

11:47council. My name is Joanne Rinker. I'm

11:49the co-chair of the North Carolina

11:51Diabetes Advisory Council. And um this

11:55is my fourth year and last year as

11:57co-chair. And one of our initiatives

11:59were was to actually ask for this

12:02proclamation for cities around the

12:05state. And when we were getting them

12:07from um Raleigh and Greensboro and I'm a

12:10a resident of western North Carolina, it

12:13was really important to me for the city

12:15of Asheville to also be doing this. So I

12:18just really appreciate this because 11%

12:20of our residents in North Carolina have

12:23diabetes and it's really important to

12:25bring awareness

12:27in our community around diabetes so that

12:29we can provide them with care,

12:31education, support and treatment. So, I

12:35am really honored to be here to accept

12:37this proclamation today and to bring it

12:39back to our entire North Carolina

12:42diabetes advisory committee. So, thank

12:44you so much. Thank you.

12:48[applause]

13:15Okay. Next, we have um the consent

13:17agenda and we have a request to to pull

13:19off items D and E for a separate vote.

13:22Do I have a motion to adopt the consent

13:24agenda without items D and E?

13:26>> So moved. Sage

13:28>> second.

13:30>> Okay. Uh we do yes we do not have anyone

13:33signed up to speak under the consent

13:34agenda. So all those in favor please say

13:36I.

13:37>> Any opposed? All right. That was a

13:39unanimous vote to adopt the consent

13:41agenda. Um do I have a motion uh to

13:44adopt items D and E so we can have a

13:46conversation about items D and E.

13:48>> So moved.

13:50>> Second.

13:50>> I have a motion to second. Okay. Um, so

13:54I'm going to turn over to you Bo to make

13:56few comments about items D and E and why

13:58we're considering these separately.

14:00>> Yes, thank you mayor. Thanks colleagues

14:03and manager Wesley. Uh, I pulled items D

14:06and E because I think we um have a

14:10responsibility to question spending,

14:12explain our decisions, and also protect

14:15the financial stability of the city.

14:17These two landscape maintenance

14:19contracts total $166,388

14:23for the first year. If all four

14:26additional renewal options are

14:27exercised, that would be almost $1

14:30million.

14:31I think that we have some just basic

14:35questions that need answering. Uh

14:38especially for a department that is

14:40already fully funded and we added money

14:43to. So, parks and recreation budget is

14:46around $13.8 million.

14:49And in fact, there's a slide that I

14:53pulled that had for just this year $5.8

14:58million in what the slide called asset

15:02management. And under the asset

15:04management, it specifically put mowing

15:07and landscaping for parks and recreation

15:09for parks.

15:11So, that's $5.8 $8 million that we have

15:16already

15:18put aside for this.

15:22So, I just think that we need to make

15:25full use of our existing staff,

15:28equipment, resources before we purchase

15:30an outside service. The information

15:34presented in the staff report had no

15:36information. It didn't tell us why we

15:39were renewing this, if this was a new

15:41renewal, as council member Turner had

15:44said, uh if this was in response to

15:47public uh feedback. There was no

15:51information at all.

15:53The staff

15:56report basically just explained the

15:58contractor selection process. They did

16:00not show us a comparison of the cost of

16:02doing this work internally versus

16:04outsourcing it. They did not quantify

16:06the staffing or equipment gap that makes

16:08these contracts necessary.

16:12And both reports actually say that the

16:14funding is actually already included in

16:15the operating budget, which means that

16:17we've allocated it, but we have to

16:19approve these contracts. And we the

16:22budget does give us the authority to

16:24spend and we can choose to leave these

16:27funds unspent. We can also redirect

16:31these funds to other priorities like

16:33Weaver Park

16:35and

16:37actually fix the flooding that is going

16:40on at Weaver Park. We can actually fix

16:43the dugouts at Weaver Park. We could

16:48give them the play structure that those

16:50children and that neighborhood deserve

16:52at Weaver Park.

16:56We could also reopen our community

16:58center hours to the previous level of

17:01hours that they were instead of closing

17:04those and then contracting out $1

17:06million when we've already spent $5.8

17:09million on the same thing.

17:12My point is that every dollar spent here

17:14is a dollar unavailable for the

17:17community in another way. And in my

17:18view, we've already allocated this money

17:21by that parks and wreck.

17:25Also,

17:30I've heard from many folks, Montford

17:33Park players for example, that we're not

17:34even picking up the trash anymore in

17:37certain parks.

17:41So taxpayers are having to foot the bill

17:44to pick up trash in their city parks

17:48when we have $5.8 million that we

17:52allocated for 365 days to do this. I

17:56mean, I I think that we could figure

17:58that out. If there's a staffing

18:01shortage, show us that. Show us the

18:04vacancies. If there's an equipment

18:05shortage, let's identify it. If

18:08outsourcing really does save us money or

18:10improve service, let's show that

18:12comparison.

18:15But based on the information before us,

18:16I am not persuaded that these contracts

18:18are necessary or that the potential

18:20duplication of existing responsibilities

18:23has been adequately addressed. And

18:25therefore,

18:28I would move that

18:30>> well, we already have a we already have

18:32a motion, but just say what you what you

18:34prefer. So I would prefer if we can make

18:38a friendly emot amendment to the

18:42contract

18:45and approve it for one year for the

18:4873,000

18:50>> the other two of them

18:52>> right and without and take away the

18:55option of renewing for the up to a

18:56million. So, I have a question before we

19:00go that direction. Um, because it says

19:02it's for Wilma Dykeman Greenway, Gene

19:04Webb Park, 8 River Arts Place. Is there

19:07any reason why we can't delay this and

19:10get the questions answered so we can

19:12have an informed decision?

19:15>> Um, the contracts are not timesensitive,

19:18but we'll try to attempt to answer some

19:20of the questions that council member has

19:21had some tonight.

19:22>> And also, if it's 73 million, does that

19:25require it to come to us?

19:277 73,000.

19:29>> Yeah. 7 Wow. 73,000.

19:32>> 73 million. We'd need a budget.

19:33>> It wouldn't need to come back to us,

19:34would it? Because it's under the

19:36required

19:37>> Well, so what what these the We were

19:39talking about this earlier. These two

19:41contracts are on here for one They're

19:43they're one-year contracts with an

19:45opportunity to be renewed without

19:47further council action for four more

19:49years after that. So I what I understand

19:53Councilman Hess is saying is let's just

19:55authorize a year and no more than that

19:57um and I think when talking to the

19:59manager um and I haven't had a chance to

20:01talk to you um Brad but we put out an

20:05RFP for these for this type of contract.

20:08So we can't we under this scenario we

20:10can't change it because the respondents

20:13responded with what we asked them for. I

20:15see. Um, but it's up to the manager

20:19whether or not these get renewed next

20:20year. So if if uh if the manager looks

20:23at this and want and we ask her to

20:25report back to us, she can tell us

20:27whether or not this makes sense going

20:29forward.

20:29>> So then without that option because of

20:32the RFP, why don't we do council member

20:36uh Rooney's suggestion and let's get the

20:40information and then let's make a

20:43decision after that. It may be possible

20:45that staff has the information tonight.

20:47We haven't given them a chance to

20:48respond

20:49>> and we have a follow-up document.

20:51>> We may have the information tonight is

20:52what I said that staff haven't been

20:54given a chance to respond. I did follow

20:55up with the city manager about this just

20:57with general questions. And I kind of

20:59understood that, you know, these are

21:00contracts that are four or five year

21:02periods with an automatic renewal in

21:04them each year meant usually for like

21:06price increases and things, but and then

21:08every chunk of years they need to be

21:11replaced all together. And that's kind

21:12of where we're at, right? beginning of

21:14one of those processes. I'm fine with

21:15the delay if it helps if staff have some

21:17answers. I'm not as concerned about the

21:19contract. I would love to know if we

21:21could have a touch point ahead of the

21:23first year, you know, in case there are

21:24any concerns. My broader questions would

21:27be around is this something that we plan

21:29to onboard in the future. Is this

21:31supplemental because we're short staff?

21:32I mean, there's you probably have some

21:34of these answers.

21:35>> Yeah. Um, if staff can come up and

21:37answer some of those questions. We've

21:38been contracting this out. We have a

21:40hybrid approach to maintenance across

21:41our park system as early as 2011. So,

21:44we'll provide some information to you.

21:47Some of the more detailed questions that

21:48council member H is asking are the

21:50absolute questions that we we ask during

21:53a budget process. Um, and so after he's

21:56provides some response, I can follow up

21:58with some.

21:59>> Sure. Mayor, members, council, Peter

22:01Wall, assistant director, parks and

22:03recreation. So yeah, these contracts for

22:06downtown maintenance have been in place

22:08since Pack Square Park uh was built. Uh

22:11in 2009 2010 was when we started that uh

22:14contracting out process. Uh this

22:17contract does include Pritchard Park,

22:19the Ranken, what we're calling the

22:21Ranken Park, but it's Ranken parking

22:23deck. Um Pritchard Park Triangle Park

22:26and Grace's Garden. U the riverfront

22:28contract was started when the rad tip

22:31project finished. Um and the contractors

22:33completed that work. Um and so the first

22:36year of that contract was uh 2021 and

22:40then that obviously was canceled during

22:42Helen because all of that riverfront uh

22:45landscape that was being maintained by

22:47them fell into the Helen recovery

22:50process and so we we were trying to keep

22:52up with that uh maintenance inhouse. Um

22:55but we haven't been able to keep up with

22:57the level of service required in those

23:00parks since then. and the downtown parks

23:02contract was up for renewal at the end

23:04of last fiscal year. Uh we were trying

23:06to align that with some of the other

23:08parks. So we had three separate

23:10contracts. We wanted to align it into

23:11one one contract. So that's what this is

23:13presented before you tonight.

23:16>> Uh has the same vendor had the contract

23:18since 2011.

23:20>> Uh no. So um contractor availability has

23:25been tough. Um I'll say um so the

23:28original contractor was Rivertop. The

23:30secondary contractor was that was before

23:33my time. Uh but the secondary contractor

23:35was Pinnacle Landscapes for a number of

23:37years. Uh then it went to Landmark

23:40Landscapes and now back to Rivertop. So,

23:43and it has been the most recent uh

23:45contractor was Rivertop contractors.

23:50>> And during the RP process, we did um

23:52request for bids information relative to

23:55the primary year and then the option to

23:58renew uh four more years. So there's an

24:01option to renew and based on the

24:03questions that you have, we can

24:04definitely evaluate that more against

24:07our staffing levels and then before I

24:10sign off to renew it, we can provide an

24:11update to council. But again, that the

24:14questions you're asking are very

24:16appropriate questions that we will

24:18evaluate as a part of the budget

24:20process. So we want to be able to bring

24:21that back to council so you can really

24:23make those kind of funding decisions

24:25holistically and not in a vacuum.

24:27>> Thank you, Manor Wesley. I was just

24:29caught off guard because there was no

24:30information in the staff report and and

24:33uh that's a lot of money when we're

24:36coming up on another budget season and

24:38again we're cutting community hours and

24:41uh Weaver Park doesn't have what they

24:43need.

24:47>> Okay. Did we round that out for a

24:48supportive motion in the end or are we

24:51delaying? Well, and with I would uh with

24:55a the request for a deep dive on on how

24:58the parks and wreck projects are funded

24:59and not funded. Um and then b with the

25:03request that the manager inform us

25:06before making a decision about whether

25:07to renew this next year.

25:09>> So,

25:10>> and that and I'm assuming that will come

25:11up during the budget conf.

25:13>> Well, and we're going to enter a

25:14strategic planning session year long.

25:16So, I'll be sure to bring up things like

25:18overall parks planning and you know what

25:20are we what are we outsourcing and why

25:23>> maybe okay

25:25>> and I would expand that to thinking

25:26about the budget not just parks you know

25:28what what where where do contractors

25:30play an appropriate role

25:32>> what staff capacity is there

25:34>> my hunch is that staff are maxed out so

25:38I want to understand that better and see

25:40that I don't want to make budget

25:41decisions on a hunch um just having more

25:44visibility into that would be really

25:45Great. And I I know you look forward to

25:48that, too. I I know that you have a lot

25:49of vision for our budget process to

25:51evolve. So, I'm excited for us to really

25:53roll up our sleeves on all this.

25:57>> All right. So, we have a motion and a

25:59second and two requests um for the

26:02adoption of items D and E. All those in

26:05favor, please raise your hand. All those

26:08opposed, please raise your hand. Okay.

26:11Did you get all that, Maggie?

26:12>> Okay. That was a six to one vote to

26:14approve items D and E on the consent

26:16agenda.

26:19Um we have one presentation and report

26:22tonight and that is a storm water asset

26:24inventory and assessment project which

26:27I'm really excited to hear about because

26:29I've been seeing markings all over the

26:31city marking our storm water

26:32infrastructure. So I assume that was why

26:36not just some random

26:38>> graffiti artist that focuses on storm

26:40water infrastructure.

26:47We have Shannon Simpson from uh public

26:49works. I'm excited about this

26:51presentation as well.

26:52>> Shannon, are you making your debut?

26:54>> Are you?

26:55>> All right. Okay. All right.

26:57>> How exciting. Um, and I'm just arrow for

27:00slides. Okay, great.

27:02>> Perfect.

27:04>> Good evening, Mayor Mannheimr, city

27:06council members, and city manager

27:08Wesley. My name is Shannon Simpson. I'm

27:11the stormwater regulatory manager within

27:14the public works stormwater division

27:17and this evening I'm presenting a brief

27:18overview of the stormwater asset

27:20inventory and assessment project which

27:22is a critical step in modernizing how

27:25the city of Asheville manages its storm

27:27water infrastructure.

27:31A little on the background and need for

27:33this project. Our current storm water

27:35inventory is outdated with our last

27:37citywide survey dating back to the late

27:391980s, early 1990s.

27:42An up-to-date inventory is federally

27:45mandated under our permit from the state

27:48to operate our storm water management

27:49system. And as our storm water

27:52infrastructure ages and climate patterns

27:54shift, we need comprehensive data for

27:56our system throughout the city to

27:58proactively plan and prioritize

28:00maintenance and repair projects.

28:06Having a comprehensive assessment of our

28:08storm water system allows us to be more

28:10proactive through a riskbased approach

28:14by investing our resources in high

28:16priority improvement that provide the

28:18greatest impact on public safety,

28:20property protection, and water quality.

28:24System capacity modeling will allow us

28:26to address system resiliency by

28:28estimating the ability of our system to

28:30handle increasingly intense storms.

28:34Having standardized protocol for data

28:37collection also allows us to be

28:39efficient in performing this work in

28:41future years.

28:49A comprehensive assessment gives us a

28:52roadmap. Sorry.

28:54A comprehensive assessment gives us a

28:56roadmap for where to focus our efforts

28:58by prioritizing vulnerable communities

29:01and providing strategies on how to

29:03integrate nature-based solutions into

29:05plans for system upgrades. This roadmap

29:08will also help us better estimate the

29:11long-term scope and cost of improving

29:13our system to inform future project and

29:15budget development.

29:19As I mentioned, this is a comprehensive

29:21and phased approach. The overall

29:23long-term goal is to have a

29:25comprehensive citywide storm water

29:27infrastructure assessment that includes

29:30mapping, infrastructure condition, and

29:33system capacity modeling for storm

29:35events of varying intensity.

29:38Recommendations from the assessment will

29:40be incorporated into planning for storm

29:43water capital projects and operations

29:46and maintenance improvements.

29:49The city has 11 named watersheds within

29:52its boundary

29:54and 292 miles of pipe systems that we

29:58know about.

30:00which is why the comprehensive citywide

30:02assessment of the storm water system

30:03needs to be completed through a phased

30:06approach by wersheds. This approach will

30:09require multiple phases and contracts

30:11and will take multiple years to

30:12complete.

30:16Here we show the limits of the city in

30:18yellow um compared to the French Broad

30:20River wershed in green. For context, the

30:23city limits encompasses, as I mentioned,

30:25almost 300 miles um of storm water pipe.

30:31Zooming in a bit further, the shaded

30:34areas on the map show the watersheds or

30:36drainage areas for named streams within

30:38the city limits. The gray line

30:41demarcates the city limits. So, you can

30:43see what's included um from each

30:46watershed.

30:48The basin highlighted in bright green is

30:50town branch wershed. Some people know it

30:53as Nasty Branch and is the focus of

30:55phase one assessment.

30:58More on phase one on the next slide.

31:00Listed on the left are the 11 named

31:03watersheds within the city limits.

31:05However, the city limits encompasses

31:07several small sections of other wersheds

31:09that will also be incorporated into

31:11future phases as appropriate.

31:14These wersheds differ in size, land use,

31:17topography, concentration of storm water

31:19structures and pipes, and accessibility,

31:21making each phase not a

31:23one-sizefits-all.

31:29Phase one, currently phase one of the

31:32citywide assessment is underway. We

31:34began in February of this year. We

31:37started with town branch wershed for

31:39this initial phase outlined in yellow on

31:41the map. This watershed is located

31:44entirely within the city limits and

31:47spans multiple neighborhoods including

31:49downtown south slope the block and

31:51vulnerable communities such as southside

31:53and Livingston Heights.

31:56Townbent branch creek is also listed as

31:59an impaired stream due to fecal

32:01caulifform and increased sediment.

32:09The scope of phase one. This is an uh an

32:11overview of the scope. Deliverables for

32:13phase one can be divided into two

32:16categories. Planning support and

32:18inventory and assessment data. As

32:21previously mentioned, we are using a

32:23riskbased approach to develop a

32:25framework for prioritization of

32:27watersheds for future phases and

32:30prioritization of storm water capital

32:32projects and maintenance needs. It

32:35provides a standard operating procedure

32:37for basin modeling which is the capacity

32:40assessment. Field surveys for up to 2600

32:44structures are being conducted within

32:45the Nasty Branch wershed storm which uh

32:49include storm drains, drop inlets and

32:52junction boxes which connect storm water

32:54pipes.

32:55Beyond field surveys of these assets, we

32:58are implementing a standardized

32:59condition rating criteria for the storm

33:02water system. This information will be

33:04integrated into our existing GIS

33:06mapping, giving us a tool to track

33:08infrastructure needs in real time. By

33:10the end of phase one, we will have a

33:12standard protocol for data collection

33:14and database management, sorry, database

33:18maintenance to ensure consistency across

33:20all phases. We are conducting system

33:24hydraologic modeling to assess current

33:26system capacity to inform capital

33:28projects. Ultimately, this initiative

33:31will allow us to shift from reactive

33:34um where we are chasing problems to a

33:36pro proactive maintenance and projects.

33:43So just a a quick graphic to help you

33:46understand what we mean by risk based

33:48approach. This graphic shows the two

33:49parameters we are assessing to using to

33:52assess risk. the level of risk based on

33:55likelihood of failure which is on the

33:57left side of the graphic and level of

33:59impact which is on the top um if it does

34:02fail high like as you can see in the

34:05upper right corner high likelihood of

34:06failure and a severe impact of that

34:08failure constitutes the highest risk.

34:12>> Can I ask a question there?

34:13[clears throat] Does that then imply

34:16flooding or are there other risks that

34:18we want to be uh managing for with storm

34:21water? It could mean flooding. Yes.

34:23>> Okay. What else could it be? Just to

34:24give examples outside of the um

34:27technical

34:28>> destruction. Uh yeah, structural. It

34:31could be a safety issue. Um if you have

34:34a sinkhole sink.

34:36>> Okay. So sink holes and flooding. Are

34:37there like I'm trying to understand like

34:39what the public would understand the

34:40risk because I you know

34:42>> erosion into the lake into the river. I

34:44mean

34:45>> we've got general

34:47>> Oh, sorry. Sure. Sink holes and flooding

34:50are the two that come to mind.

34:51>> Okay. Thanks.

34:56>> All right.

34:59>> So, can we go back to that one the

35:01colorful slide? Just one second.

35:03>> Sure.

35:05>> So, and this is across 2600 touch points

35:08that we're going to map. Like I'm a

35:10little concerned they're all going to

35:11come back in red.

35:13>> Oh. [laughter]

35:14Um I don't think that's going to happen.

35:17Um there's a number of different um

35:20pieces here that we're looking at. We're

35:22looking at the age of the

35:23infrastructure. Um we're looking at the

35:25the material of the infrastructure for

35:28the watersheds. We're looking at is it

35:30listed as impaired? Is it listed um you

35:33know is it how many critical resources

35:35are located within that area.

35:37Interesting. So there's a a whole

35:39laundry list which I can get you if

35:40you'd like.

35:41>> No, this this is great. This is

35:42wonderful. Thank you.

35:43>> Sure.

35:46long time.

35:47>> Timeline of phase one um winter spring

35:51we kicked off the project uh earlier

35:54this year, summer and fall of this year.

35:57Um field surveys and condition

35:59assessment conducted throughout the

36:01summer and will continue through this

36:03fall. System capacity and hydraologic

36:06modeling has begun this fall. And

36:09because phase one is partially funded by

36:11a grant, the grant deliverables are due

36:14by um December 31st and we are on track

36:17to deliver those.

36:20We expect all of phase one to be

36:22completed in winter of next year.

36:27Now the fun part, the money.

36:31So this is just a quick financial

36:33overview. The total contract value for

36:36phase one is 900,000. Um, with Ardura as

36:39the selected consultant, we are

36:42leveraging 400,000 in state grant

36:44funding that I just mentioned with the

36:46remaining 500,000 provided by the city

36:48storm water operating budget. This is

36:51very expensive. This is just phase one.

36:53This is very expensive and complex work.

36:55Um, and another reason we need to spread

36:57the work out over multiple years. Some

37:00of the complexities include storm water

37:02structures that can be difficult to

37:04access. Um, for instance, we're still

37:06running into some Helen debris and other

37:08issues of just an aging infrastructure.

37:11Um, and field data collection is costly

37:14and times consuming. Um, it's under the

37:17ground.

37:23So, next steps as we're coming towards

37:26um getting closer to the end of of phase

37:29one deliverables from phase one allow us

37:33to schedule, budget, and prioritize

37:35watersheds for future phases with phase

37:38two planned for FY28 budget. Several

37:42factors impact how long it will take to

37:44complete the full comprehensive

37:45assessment citywide,

37:47including the amount of data collected

37:49per asset if damaged, accessibility of

37:52assets, uh city staff capacity for

37:55project management and funding. After

37:58each phase, the list of prioritized

38:00capital projects and maintenance focus

38:02areas will be reviewed and integrated

38:05into storm water operations. Projects

38:07already on the stormwater capital

38:10improvement projects list will stay on

38:12the list, but those projects further out

38:14in future years may be pri prioritized

38:17differently as a result.

38:22And last slide, key takeaways from this.

38:27The comprehensive assessment involves um

38:29as mentioned proactive riskbased

38:31planning by assessing system

38:33connectivity, capacity and condition

38:36using that information to prioritize

38:39watershed needs and focusing resources

38:41where risk and needs are greatest.

38:45It's a phased multi-year approach. Full

38:47citywide assessment will be completed

38:49through multiple phases and contracts

38:51over many years with phase one currently

38:53underway in town branch

38:57foundation. It's a foundation for future

38:58phases as well. The deliverables from

39:01phase one will guide future wershed

39:03prioritization, scheduling, and

39:05budgeting. So the information that we're

39:07getting from this phase one is going to

39:09help us plan for the rest of the

39:11assessment. Phase one, along with the

39:14other 10 named watershed assessments,

39:16will comprise a comprehensive assessment

39:18of the city's storm water system that

39:21can then be used to develop a city-wide

39:23stormwater master plan.

39:32>> This is very exciting.

39:33>> Thank you for being here to share all

39:35that.

39:35>> Sure.

39:36>> This is like one of the last frontiers

39:37like what are we ever going to do about

39:39storm water? And um I'm really excited.

39:42Thank you um just for being here to

39:44explain. I'm kind of curious the um the

39:47touch points that'll come back like will

39:48we get to see all that? I saw kind of

39:50the we may rep prioritize CIP. I assume

39:53that all part of the next year's

39:55process. Okay. Awesome. Thank you. And

39:57you did a great job. Thank you for being

39:58here.

40:00>> Very good debut.

40:01>> I do have a question. Um thank you for

40:04your presentation. Welcome to this work.

40:07Um, I know there have been some concerns

40:10from businesses and residents when there

40:13are new capital projects going in and it

40:16seems that there are therefore new storm

40:18water problems and what is the avenue

40:20that someone should use to report it.

40:23For example, um there was some new

40:25residential development in North

40:27Asheville um near the lake and the new

40:31development meant that the storm water

40:33issues in the back of the businesses

40:34facing the main corridor are now

40:37flooding. Um and so what is their

40:40recourse? Who do they call? I mean

40:41they're the email, you know, council,

40:44but what is the right path to use?

40:48>> You mean beyond the Asheville app? Yes,

40:51[laughter] I suggested the Asheville

40:52app.

40:53>> Uh good evening, uh mayor, council

40:55members. My name is Derek Wingscott. I'm

40:57a stormwater division manager for the

40:59city of Asheville. Uh those complaints

41:02come through my office. Um and we handle

41:04them as they come in. We issue notice of

41:06violations uh if problems persist. If

41:10it's the one I'm thinking of in North

41:11Asheville, they we issue notice of

41:13violations with penalties.

41:16I try to get their attention. Um, but

41:19that that's typically where they go is

41:21they go through my office. Okay.

41:23>> There's usually

41:25>> uh in most cases when they get to my

41:27office, it's through the city manager's

41:29office or a string of emails.

41:31>> So, it was the best path still to use

41:33the Asheville app.

41:34>> Yes. And then it goes to your office.

41:36Yes. Because the second example I have

41:37is we had that rain this past weekend

41:39and it was a lot all at once, but we had

41:41also done a lot of sidewalk and new

41:44infrastructure work with NC DOT on the

41:46Haywood Road corridor. And the the new

41:51information we gained was that at the

41:53top of the hill at State Street, you

41:55would think that that water would move

41:57down State Street and it pulled up on

41:59Haywood Road, which seemed new with the

42:01new infrastructure. So, one would hope

42:03that new infrastructure would mean it

42:05works more efficiently and it seemed to

42:07work less efficiently. So, once again,

42:10point folks to the Asheville app.

42:12>> Uh, yes, but on Hwood that's going to be

42:14diverted to the DOT and their problem

42:17solving.

42:18>> So, we typically we will communicate

42:20with the DOT when those issues come up

42:22and we will do an investigation to see

42:24what's an appropriate course of action.

42:26>> Thank you so much.

42:27>> Yeah. Yeah. So, council member all

42:29council. Yes. Asheville app is the the

42:31door. Ask people to um input the

42:35information to Asheville app and then

42:36we'll get it to the right place or we'll

42:37get the answers that they need.

42:39>> One quick followup to what you just

42:40said. Is there a method to contact the

42:42DOT for a similar thing? I have some

42:44neighbors experiencing some similar down

42:46Haywood Road and the source point is the

42:49road. Uh typically what we end up doing

42:51is we give them the contact information

42:53that we have with a name,

42:55>> okay,

42:55>> and a direct phone number and then it's

42:57up to the DOT to um occasionally we'll

43:01give out an email if it's appropriate.

43:04>> Okay. Thank you.

43:06>> I had a question back to the

43:07presentation. Thank you. Um

43:10so the phased approach seems very um

43:13practical and it also seems like if I'm

43:16understanding it

43:18we don't this is the opportunity to

43:20really inventory everything and start um

43:25standardizing our ability to do long

43:27range planning financial planning so

43:29that we can have better maintenance and

43:30reduce our risk. So, I think that's just

43:33so welcome and very exciting. Um, given

43:37it's a phased approach and we're

43:38starting in nasty branch and it's not

43:40it's a very technical assessment um with

43:43a high price tag. Is it reasonable to

43:46expect this would be a long range

43:48process to do all these phases? Excuse

43:50me, I was going to sneeze

43:52>> potentially. [snorts] Yes.

43:53>> Yeah. Right. Like this might be we do

43:56waterersheds every 10 years and we're

43:57doing one every year type of cycling

43:59thing for such a big inventory.

44:01>> Correct. I mean obviously the factors

44:04are money, time, you know, um and

44:07capacity to resources to do that.

44:10>> Yeah.

44:11>> Yeah, that seems very reasonable. I have

44:13lots of curiosities as we get into this

44:15first phase of like what impacts that

44:17will have on capital prioritization,

44:20right?

44:21Um, but that's that's like the roll up

44:23our sleeves as we get along. So, I I'm

44:25very excited. I I think that um we all

44:29uh have a very intimate understanding of

44:32the risks of storm water and the

44:34likelihood of higher volume of storm

44:37water. And I think being an

44:38environmentalist my whole life, storm

44:40water is like one of the more unsexy

44:42environmental issues out there. And so,

44:44I just find it really exciting for us to

44:47be taking a leadership approach to

44:48really plan out better. I love that

44:50you're incorporating and anticipating

44:52naturebased solutions because I think

44:53those type of solutions not only will

44:55improve the water quality um but will

44:58slow the water down so that things are

45:00safer in our riverways and waterways. So

45:03I'm excited for this work and you know

45:05um if you ever need committees to nerd

45:07out on it route it through the planning

45:09environment uh economic alongside all

45:12the stuff. So thank you.

45:13>> We're excited as well and thank you for

45:14the support. phase one is is really

45:16going to help us um dial in the rest of

45:19the phases and figure out exactly Yeah,

45:21>> it's a whole new it's a whole new

45:22stormwater division. That's great.

45:24Thanks to your leadership.

45:28>> Okay, we're good. Thank you very much.

45:31>> Does that conclude the manager's report?

45:33>> It does. Thank you.

45:35>> Thank you. [snorts]

45:36>> All right, we have two public hearings

45:38tonight. The first public hearing is to

45:42conditionally reszone 99999

45:45Tri Street and 990 West Chapel Road from

45:49RS8 residential single family

45:51highdensity district to RS8 residential

45:55uh single family highdensity district

45:57conditional zone and Sam Starbomb is

46:00going to present this item and the next

46:02one. Boy, geez, you uh you're double

46:05duty. Good.

46:06>> Yeah. Thank you, Madame Mayor, members

46:08of council. Again, for the record, my

46:09name is Sam Starbomb. I am a planner

46:11three with the planning and urban design

46:13department, and this is the first of the

46:15two conditional zoning petitions this

46:17evening. It is, of course, considerably

46:19more laborious to say nine five times in

46:21a row throughout the entirety of this

46:23presentation. So, I will just informally

46:25refer to this as the Habitat Project.

46:28So, before us today, we have the Habitat

46:30Project. This is, of course, in Shiloh.

46:33My presentation will look very familiar

46:36to you because this is the same format

46:38and cadence of all my other conditional

46:39zoning petitions. This is in the heart

46:42of Shiloh, the neighborhood. You can see

46:44on the aerial, it is south of the

46:48interstate. To the right of the image,

46:50you can see Sweden Creek. And then on

46:52the left bounds, you have Hendersonville

46:54Road. Anything in gray shown in the

46:56bottom left corner of that photo is not

46:58in Asheville jurisdiction, but you can

47:00see the parcels highlighted in blue.

47:02That is what we're talking about today.

47:03And what we are specifically looking at

47:06is 23 [clears throat] lots which will

47:10contain 18 town homes and five single

47:12family residences.

47:15And I want to spend a little bit of time

47:16on exhibit [snorts] A and A1 that is in

47:18your packet. This is a little unique.

47:21This is a repeal and replace of a

47:24previous conditional zoning ordinance.

47:26And there's a reason why this is a

47:27conditional zoning and not a conditional

47:30zoning amendment or with our new changes

47:32to the UDO, not something that's going

47:34through as a use by right. So in 2017,

47:37there was an original conditional

47:39zoning. Of course, the thresholds were

47:41well below a level three. So it was not

47:43residential expansion. It was zoned RS8,

47:47which is single family highdensity

47:49district conditional zone. That's what

47:51it was zoned as in 2017. That was for 20

47:53units. that did not include what is now

47:56proposed the inclusion of what is at at

47:59990 West Chapel. So you can see uh on

48:02the left what is current you can see RS8

48:04for those lots and then proposed you can

48:06see the addition in the bottom left of

48:08990 West Chapel there is going to be a

48:10new lot configuration. So in consult

48:12excuse me [clears throat] in consulting

48:14with Janice Ashley and the legal

48:15department we decided this is probably

48:17the cleanest way forward. It has a

48:20little bit of nuance but this is legally

48:22the best path forward. is not an

48:23amendment is just to go straight through

48:26instead of a reszoning to a new

48:27conditional zoning amendment. There are

48:29also technical modification

48:31considerations I will get to. But that's

48:33what we're looking at is we will be

48:35going again from RS8CZ to RS8CZ. That

48:39sounds a little funny, but that's what

48:40we have this evening. And this is the

48:43future land use. This is a traditional

48:45neighborhood, which I quote from the

48:47Living Asheville comprehensive plan.

48:49Traditional neighborhood is a mix of

48:51housing types such as accessory dwelling

48:53units, duplexes, town homes, usually

48:56located seamlessly together. And that is

48:58what is proposed today and before us.

49:00You can see [clears throat] that by and

49:02large, not totally, but by and large,

49:05most of Shiloh consists of the

49:07traditional neighborhood future land use

49:09designation. You do have a little bit of

49:10residential

49:12neighborhood to the north and then just

49:14to the very south, you can see parks and

49:16open space. parks and open spaces, of

49:18course, where the Lynwood Crump

49:20Community Center is there to the south.

49:22And that also shows the importance of

49:24connectivity for this project. And this

49:27is what the site plan is. As I said, it

49:29is 23 lots, 18 town homes, five single

49:32family residences. The single family

49:34residences are on lots, 2,8,

49:38and 23. You will have sidewalks along

49:41West Chapel. You will also have

49:42sidewalks internal to the site. It will

49:44just be on the south side. And then this

49:47is of course because of the unit count.

49:49This is well below the threshold to

49:51trigger a traffic impact analysis. There

49:54is a disturbed buffer that has been

49:56previously disturbed to the south. You

49:57can see where there is going to be some

49:58storm water infrastructure just to the

50:00north of that. Uh you can see the

50:02aquatic buffer and then the road there.

50:04But this is what's proposed. And then of

50:06course with

50:08with landscaping, all the landscaping is

50:10placed to the south of the site along

50:12sort of where the aquatic buffer is. You

50:14have your trees to the south. You have

50:16your open space to the south. You even

50:18saw in the previous slide the path for

50:21recreational open space that goes

50:22through those woods and then of course

50:24you'll have all other standard elements

50:26of 7113 which is landscaping in the UDO.

50:30Those will be met. So that is what is

50:32before us today. Like I said there are

50:35some project conditions and technical

50:37modifications here. All units, 100% of

50:40them will be designated affordable and

50:42then all units uh will be 80% AMI or

50:44below. Will Buouie who is with the

50:47engineering firm is representing the

50:49applicant today and can speak more to

50:51that. And then there are of course also

50:53technical modifications. There are three

50:55with this project. One, this seems

50:57silly, but there are zero interior side

51:00setbacks for townhouse lots because they

51:02are connected. And then you have a

51:03reduction of the minimum lot size from

51:064,000, which is what it traditionally is

51:08in RS8, down to 3,742,

51:12which is the smallest lot. And then a

51:14reduction of of the lot width from 40,

51:17which is what it is at RS8, to 32

51:20specific for these 23 units. So those

51:24are the technical modifications. This

51:26has been the review process. It has

51:27moved fairly quickly throughout the

51:29process. Again, it has uh had the

51:31benefit of being through it before. In

51:332017, it went to the technical review

51:35committee on July 20th. It was approved

51:38with conditions unanimously and then it

51:39went through the planning and zoning

51:41commission in September 2nd, also

51:44approved unanimously. And that brings us

51:46to compliance with city plans. And I

51:49want to spend a little bit of time here

51:51particularly on this project. Of course,

51:53we find it is consistent with the future

51:55land use designation of traditional

51:57neighborhood. I highlighted how it is

51:58that seamless mix of all these different

52:00residential types in this neighborhood

52:02where you see a lot of these similar

52:04uses and zoning districts that is that

52:06is okay. And then also with the living

52:08Asheville comprehensive plan this does

52:10support the following goals. It

52:12encourages responsible growth and

52:13increases and diversifies the housing

52:15supply. Now here is where my

52:17presentation diverges from my usual

52:20cadence and and what I present to you.

52:22This is unique in that this also and I

52:25would like to commend the applicant for

52:26working with the community and the

52:28neighborhood. This also aligns with the

52:30Shiloh community plan and that is

52:32important that we bring that to council

52:33and we also highlight other ways in

52:35which it does align with community plans

52:37which are important both to the

52:39community and council. So this does of

52:40course align with land use goal two from

52:42that Shiloh community plan which is to

52:44provide assistance for affordable

52:45housing and home improvement and land

52:48use goal four which is to protect

52:49enhance and complement the existing

52:51character of Shiloh both of which this

52:54project does and so unsurprisingly staff

52:57does of course concur with the planning

52:58and zoning commission and recommends

53:00approval of the proposed conditional

53:02zoning. And I would be happy to stand

53:04for any questions you may have.

53:08>> Thank you. That was awesome.

53:09>> Yeah.

53:10>> Well, I move to you don't be doing

53:12mushing up. We got to do the public

53:13hearing.

53:14>> Before that, I'll ask my evergreen

53:16question that I ask for every

53:17conditional zoning, even though I think

53:19I know the answer. Um, is there a plan

53:22for renewable energy or anything that

53:23would hinder its future installation?

53:26>> Uh, nothing that would hinder its future

53:27installation. I will of course let the

53:29applicant speak to that.

53:30>> Thank you. Thank you, Sam. Just a couple

53:32technical questions I'd like your

53:34opinion on. Um,

53:36so the um reduced lot size caught my

53:40attention because it's something we've

53:42been hearing about from feedback and

53:44community. So that would be like a 86

53:46lot size. 086 as compared to like 0868.

53:51>> Currently it's a 0.1, but we've been

53:53talking about that. So I think that's

53:54just an interesting thing to highlight.

53:56Um,

53:57>> I'm wondering if the sidewalks are five

53:59or 10 feet. Is 10 feet just the multif

54:01family? Is 5 feet standard for this? 5

54:03feet is standard for all residential

54:05districts. Again, I want to highlight

54:06that this is not residential expansion

54:08because it falls below that. So, you are

54:10used to in the projects I bring you are

54:12either residential or commercial. That's

54:14where you get the 10 foot. That is why

54:15there is not a technical modification

54:17here is this is

54:19fairly unique in that you get an RS8 CZ.

54:22>> That makes sense. And I guess I also

54:24want to point out, you know, even in

54:25these recent ones that were requiring

54:2610, we're bumping them back to five

54:28either way. So, I mention it as we

54:30embark upon the UDO because these are

54:32just things I'm seeing over time repeat.

54:35Um,

54:37I guess my other question is for the

54:40applicant. Oh, no. I have one more. I'm

54:41sorry. Could you put up the site plan

54:43again?

54:44>> So, uh, one back. The actual map. Sorry,

54:47not site plan. I meant to say map.

54:50>> Oh,

54:51>> this. Yes. Okay. So, in that top right

54:53corner, it looks like almost access

54:56point again. What do we generally what

54:58is staff's kind of [clears throat]

55:00vision or thought process or goals

55:02around connectivity versus like a

55:05culde-sac? Is there any value to that

55:07connectivity? Are we not worried about

55:08it?

55:10>> You know, I am hesitant to provide any

55:13opinion without any plan before us. I

55:15think that there is ample guidance in

55:17both the UDO and the living Asheville

55:19comprehensive plan that promotes

55:21connectivity especially especially when

55:23you get to traditional and residential

55:25neighborhoods. Uh but I I'm again

55:29extremely hesitant to give any sort of

55:31definitive staff opinion without a

55:32proposal.

55:33>> I just noticed it and wondered. Yeah.

55:35Okay.

55:36>> Yeah. And this is also I will say this

55:37as someone who who has one foot in the

55:39GIS world and one foot in the planning

55:41world. There is a metric ton of unopened

55:44rideways here. So just because what you

55:46see here [laughter] does not mean that

55:48it's actually a rideway. So it is

55:50>> okay.

55:50>> When you've seen one road, you've seen

55:52one road. It is not at all

55:53representative of anything else. If you

55:55go to the humor,

55:56>> will you go to the site plan? What?

55:58What? You may have said this and I

56:00missed it. So the little squiggle

56:02>> and fire safety.

56:04>> No, no. I mean the

56:05>> Oh, that's a walking path, right?

56:06>> Yeah. Is that a walking path? But

56:07>> that is a walking path as a component of

56:097-Eleven. If you are going to have

56:11recreational open space or natural open

56:13space,

56:15>> natural open space, you do have to have

56:16a path through there.

56:17>> Do are you talking about that little leg

56:18that sticks down to the road?

56:20>> Um I was Yes,

56:21>> that's what Yeah, cuz it's okay. Hey, I

56:23was just curious what kind of staff if

56:24we ever recommended around that.

56:26>> I just I I would assume the way I've

56:28seen these properties divided up,

56:30somebody divided up a jillion years ago

56:32and thought we might need this access

56:33point, so they left it there.

56:35>> Yeah.

56:36>> Yeah.

56:36>> A jillion sounds a little recent, but I

56:38think somewhere in there that's probably

56:39>> you said metric ton of open right away.

56:41So, [laughter]

56:43>> um and then my last question will be for

56:46the applicant who I see and they're not

56:48going to come out. I'll just say it so

56:49it can be part of the group. I'm just

56:50wondering if the home ownership plan

56:53includes accepting vouchers.

56:55>> Yeah, I'll leave that to the applicant.

56:56Thank you, council.

56:57>> Thank you. Do we want to hear from the

57:00applicant now about that?

57:03>> Please. [sighs]

57:06Welcome.

57:08>> Thank you for bringing your great

57:09project.

57:12>> Thank you, Mayor Council. Um I'm Will

57:14Buouie with WGLA Engineering. Appreciate

57:16the opportunity to be here with you

57:17tonight. I'm joined by Andy Barnett, who

57:19is the CEO of Asheville Area Habitat for

57:22Humanity. We've had an opportunity to

57:23work with Asheville Habitat and Andy for

57:26quite a while, about 10 years, about a

57:28decade. So, uh, we're excited to bring

57:30this project before you. I think Sam did

57:33a great job explaining the project. Um,

57:35I don't know that I can add a whole lot

57:37to it. I can certainly try to answer

57:38questions. I think the little tail, I

57:41think the mayor mentioned that was

57:42probably a leftover parcel. It's not

57:45wide enough to support a city street and

57:47making a connection. It would also

57:50require crossing of the stream and it

57:52would remove additional canopy. So, we

57:55didn't feel like um we didn't feel like

57:57it was reasonable to look at that. Uh

58:00the actual property that's to the plan

58:02north that you see is actually an old

58:04habitat project as well. If we were to

58:07try to make a connection there, we would

58:08be losing housing stock and so just

58:11didn't seem appropriate.

58:13>> Yeah. I know that it sounds expensive,

58:14too. So, it's okay.

58:15>> Absolutely. But I I don't really have a

58:18presentation. Again, I we feel like this

58:20project speaks for itself and we're

58:21happy to try to answer any questions

58:23that you all might have for us this

58:24evening.

58:24>> Did you have

58:26>> Yeah, I think Andy's about to address

58:27it. I'm just really hoping I mentioned

58:29it because I mean, we've worked in Ahack

58:30for a long time together and this

58:31there's this gap where we have voucher

58:33>> holders that can't get into mortgages.

58:36>> Yeah. So, um good evening uh mayor,

58:39members of council, staff. It's great to

58:41be here. Um, Habitat is uh a lender who

58:45does work with um the housing

58:47authorities uh home ownership voucher

58:49program. Um we do a handful of those

58:52mortgages every year and are happy to

58:54look at that, you know, on this project

58:56as well. Um excited to grow that

58:59partnership with uh with Hacka.

59:02>> Um and then uh Council Ron, you were

59:04asking about um renewable energy. Um

59:08what we have done uh on projects in the

59:10past is um uh create uh opportunities

59:14for owners to install residential solar

59:19um after the point of construction. We

59:21don't want to go in and presume who you

59:23know who wants to the the extra effort

59:27of um of renewable energy as a

59:31first-time homeowner. Um so we give

59:32folks the opportunity and and many

59:34people have connected through um the

59:36various um uh solar rebate programs, the

59:39solar forall program. Um so we probably

59:43see I'm going to say 10% of our homes um

59:47post construction um have some renewable

59:50energy component added to them. So and

59:52we try to do um our best to build solar

59:55ready for for that as well.

59:57>> Do you ever talk about community solar

59:59in your little neighborhood pockets? um

1:00:02we have talked about that. We uh we

1:00:04haven't found a great solution for that

1:00:06yet. And again, community solar is kind

1:00:08of a whole other thing to tackle and um

1:00:11kind of adds to your focus

1:00:13>> kind of the yeah

1:00:14>> the the burden of the that the

1:00:16homeowners association in this

1:00:17neighborhood would have to would have to

1:00:19share. And so again, trying to balance

1:00:20[clears throat]

1:00:21um you know, making this attainable for

1:00:24folks who are first-time homeowners,

1:00:25first-time members of a homeowners

1:00:27association and all of those sorts of

1:00:28things, not to load it up with too many

1:00:30different things that could potentially

1:00:31um make the neighborhood unsuccessful.

1:00:33>> And there's not really a clear

1:00:34regulatory path for that in North

1:00:36Carolina. Duke has fought that for years

1:00:37and years and years.

1:00:38>> Yeah. It's curious. Thank you, Andy.

1:00:41>> Yeah. Any other questions? I don't have

1:00:43a question, but I have a comment, and

1:00:45it's really a um a statement of

1:00:46gratitude because over the years, you've

1:00:49been able to work in tandem and in

1:00:51unison with uh the neighborhood. And

1:00:55what I see before me today, unless Miss

1:00:57Benny and Miss Norma, who are getting

1:00:59ready to come up and speak, tell me

1:01:00otherwise, I think this is a a a really

1:01:03nice project that leans into

1:01:06anti-displacement.

1:01:08>> Yeah.

1:01:08>> So, thank you for that.

1:01:09>> Thank you. We uh really appreciated the

1:01:12input that we got from uh from the folks

1:01:14in the child community association. Uh I

1:01:17think we have a better plan in front of

1:01:19you today as a result of working with

1:01:22that and uh it was a it was a give and

1:01:24take and uh I think we landed on

1:01:26something that's that that we can all be

1:01:27really really proud of. And I I want to

1:01:29say from uh from Habitat standpoint,

1:01:31we're uh really excited to um to have a

1:01:36a neighborhood like this to complement

1:01:38the work that we have been doing in

1:01:40recent years with infield development

1:01:42and with new home or with home repair.

1:01:44Uh but it's been a while since we've had

1:01:46a new home ownership uh neighborhood in

1:01:48the city limits and uh and we're really

1:01:50excited to bring that back and uh and um

1:01:53>> create a place for uh folks to put down

1:01:55roots in Asheville.

1:01:57>> That's so great. Thank you. It's so

1:01:58true. We talk so much about multif

1:02:00family. I want us to be talking about

1:02:01this all the time.

1:02:02>> All right, let's do it.

1:02:04>> I'm happy to make a Do we need a motion

1:02:05to go?

1:02:06>> No, we don't. We need We're ready to

1:02:07hear from

1:02:09>> public. [laughter]

1:02:11>> Go ahead. I don't need to. I just didn't

1:02:12know that we need

1:02:14>> Okay, we have a couple of people signed

1:02:17up to speak under public comment first.

1:02:19If I can find my public comment tab.

1:02:23>> Oh, wait here. I had too many tabs open.

1:02:26All right.

1:02:30Okay. The we I think we have two people.

1:02:32Yes. And the first is Miss Norma Baines.

1:02:55>> Good evening.

1:02:56My name is Norma Baines. I'm the

1:02:58leazison for the Shallow Community

1:03:00Association.

1:03:02To the mayor and vice mayor and the city

1:03:04council, I thank you for this

1:03:06opportunity to speak this evening and we

1:03:09want to say that we are supporting

1:03:12Habitat and what they're doing in our

1:03:14community. It is great that we can have

1:03:17affordable homes and we can look have

1:03:19homes that seniors may want to buy also

1:03:22as they downsize. So again, I thank you

1:03:26and we are grateful that Habitat is one

1:03:29of our partners. Thank you.

1:03:31>> Thank you.

1:03:32>> Um, next we have Miss Sophie Dixon.

1:03:42>> Okay.

1:03:48>> Good evening. I think protocol has been

1:03:50established. So I'll just say good

1:03:52evening to everybody. Uh yeah, this has

1:03:55been a great experience and it it I

1:03:57think it is because we work together and

1:04:00working together works. That's my macho.

1:04:05And so now we are we're just excited to

1:04:07get started with this project and uh our

1:04:10community, we've done surveys to find

1:04:13out who wants one, not a line, still

1:04:14they're lining up. [laughter] So

1:04:17>> So we just want to say thank you for

1:04:19your support. Thank you.

1:04:20>> Thank you. Thank you,

1:04:22>> mayor. I make a motion to approve the

1:04:24repeal and replacement of conditional

1:04:26zoning ordinance number 46112

1:04:302017 with a new conditional zoning

1:04:33request for the property located at

1:04:3599999

1:04:38Tri Street and 990 West Chapel Road for

1:04:43residential single family high density

1:04:45RS8 and residential single family high

1:04:48density conditional zone to residential

1:04:51single family high density conditional

1:04:54zone and find that the request is

1:04:57reasonable is in the public interest is

1:05:00consistent with the city's comprehensive

1:05:02plan and meets the development needs of

1:05:04the community in that the request number

1:05:06one prioritizes greater density of

1:05:08development overall throughout the city

1:05:10as appropriate and number two it

1:05:13increases the supply of housing included

1:05:15affordable housing and proximity to

1:05:17schools, transit and parks. Second.

1:05:22>> Did you just second it?

1:05:23>> No, I did. I heard it. [laughter]

1:05:25>> That was so strange. I thought

1:05:28>> All right. The vice mayor

1:05:28[clears throat] second.

1:05:30[laughter]

1:05:32>> She's just moving it along. Okay. All

1:05:35right. We have a motion and a second.

1:05:38All those in favor, please say I. I. Any

1:05:40opposed? All right. That's a unanimous

1:05:43vote for that item. Thank you very much.

1:05:47Okay, we have Sam Starbon back again

1:05:49because we're going to have a public

1:05:50hearing to consider an amendment to the

1:05:52conditional zonings

1:05:54of various parcels at 264 and 274

1:05:59Inca Heritage Parkway and 1455 Sand Hill

1:06:03Road for the purposes of amending the

1:06:05site plan and project conditions. Sam,

1:06:08take it away.

1:06:10>> Yes. Thank you, Madame Mayor, members of

1:06:12council. Again, for the record, Samstar

1:06:14Bomb, Planner 3, Planning and Urban

1:06:16Design Department. And before us today,

1:06:17we have a conditional zoning just like

1:06:19the last one. It is laborious to read

1:06:21off the addresses and street name. So, I

1:06:23will call this what this is, Asheville,

1:06:25Costco. And where we are is in West

1:06:29Asheville. You can see the three parcels

1:06:31for the site. I will talk briefly about

1:06:341455 Sand Hill Road. And then you do

1:06:37have 264 and 274 Anka Heritage Parkway

1:06:40to the north. This is a unique area that

1:06:44has had a lot of zoning and conditional

1:06:47zoning history. I want to start way back

1:06:50in 2009 under ordinance 3921.

1:06:54All of this area and some not shown

1:06:56which is again if it is gray it is in

1:06:58the county and out of our jurisdiction.

1:07:00All of this area was zoned to CICZ

1:07:05that is commercial industrial

1:07:06conditional zone. Then sometime later it

1:07:09came before this uh council and and when

1:07:12I was working here it came under

1:07:14ordinance 4995

1:07:17in 2023 for what what were envisioned as

1:07:20three large speculative warehouse

1:07:22centers. One was already built. This is

1:07:25136,000

1:07:26square ft and then there were going to

1:07:28be two that were on 264 and 274 Inca

1:07:31Heritage Parkway. So just like our last

1:07:34action, this is a complete repeal and

1:07:36replace. What we are doing is we are

1:07:38changing what the conditional zoning is.

1:07:40We are going from conditional zonings to

1:07:43conditional zoning. And this is where we

1:07:46are. Again, that's a lot about the

1:07:48existing and proposed zoning. This will

1:07:51go to commercial expansion. This is

1:07:53above that threshold for commercial

1:07:55expansion and that is also what we are

1:07:56measuring against. There is some things

1:07:59for consideration in technical

1:08:00modifications about requirement for

1:08:02conditional expansion that I will get

1:08:04into when we talk about those

1:08:05conditions. But this is largely in but

1:08:09not exclusively in employment and anchor

1:08:11institution. I want to talk about that

1:08:13briefly. An employment and anchor

1:08:15institution is envisioned as many things

1:08:18in in the living Asheville comprehensive

1:08:21plan. Chiefly among them it is this. It

1:08:23is a large land parcel area with a

1:08:26single cluster of uses and activities.

1:08:28These large land uses are important

1:08:31employment clusters and are substantial

1:08:33anchors for the community. And that is

1:08:36what that is for employment in Anchor

1:08:38Institution. Staff is cognizant of

1:08:40course that that southern parcel of 1455

1:08:43is in industrial manufacturing. Staff

1:08:46does not feel that this requires a

1:08:48change in the future land use map. There

1:08:50is nothing about Costco other than

1:08:52access that is going on that parcel. It

1:08:54is largely for access and so that is

1:08:56fine. That is gerine for the use of

1:08:59industrial manufacturing the future of

1:09:01land use. Again, if there were any

1:09:02development, that would be a different

1:09:04story. But again, all the retail

1:09:06elements are north of there and in

1:09:08employment and anchor institution. So

1:09:10staff does not feel that there is a

1:09:12future land use map change that is

1:09:14required. And this brings us to the site

1:09:16plan. This is different from what many

1:09:19people had seen 13 months ago when this

1:09:21process has started. What we have now is

1:09:23a singular fire access road, which is a

1:09:27technical term. It will read as a

1:09:28private road to any citizen or user

1:09:30here. that is accessed from the north

1:09:33and then again goes around the site to

1:09:35the south. This is 25 acres of

1:09:39development. I want to be clear that in

1:09:40other previous iterations you had seen

1:09:42these sort of out parcels were

1:09:44considered as part of the development or

1:09:46would be for future development as a

1:09:48phased plan. That is no longer the case.

1:09:50So what you are seeing here is not part

1:09:52of this development. That is going to be

1:09:54a subdivision action. Those will be

1:09:56subdivided out. So the development you

1:09:58see is 25 acres. Again, you have your

1:10:01Costco retail warehouse, which is 168

1:10:04258

1:10:06square ft of gross floor area. And then

1:10:08over here, you do have your four lanes

1:10:11for 32 fuel pumps. And then there is the

1:10:1510 ft

1:10:17multimodal path. It is not a greenway,

1:10:19but it will read like a greenway that

1:10:21that takes you from uh Jacob Holm Way

1:10:23all through the private development

1:10:24going south to Sand Hill Road, of

1:10:27course. So that is about the site plan.

1:10:30This is also the landscape plan.

1:10:32Unfortunately, this does not read well

1:10:34in a presentation. This is a massive

1:10:35site. So you do have to go to sheets

1:10:37501, 502, 503, and 504 to get to the

1:10:40tale. Staff notes that this is compliant

1:10:43with 7113, which is landscaping in the

1:10:45UDO. They are not seeking a technical

1:10:48modification for landscaping because

1:10:50they will be able to meet the standards

1:10:51of the UDO for landscaping. You can also

1:10:55see where some trees are considered for

1:10:57tree canopy preservation. Steph is clear

1:11:01in the memo that they are proposing as a

1:11:04technical modification 13% TCP rather

1:11:07than 15% TCP. That is not elimination of

1:11:10fe that is just a change in what the

1:11:13percentage required is. I would also

1:11:15like to point out on this landscape plan

1:11:17a reason for that is there are some

1:11:19trees to the east or what would be right

1:11:22in this plan. That blue line is the

1:11:24county line. So that is out of the

1:11:26jurisdiction. So there are trees not in

1:11:29city of Asheville jurisdiction which

1:11:30takes into account there are also

1:11:32components that are are taken out of

1:11:34this site for TCP consideration like the

1:11:36brownfield uh utility easements the

1:11:40roadway the greenway things that are are

1:11:42traditional

1:11:43subtractions per 719 which is tree

1:11:46canopy preservation in the unified

1:11:48development ordinance. So that's about

1:11:50the landscape plan. This is the

1:11:51elevations for the main structure. I

1:11:55gave you the size. This is where I'd

1:11:56really like to talk a little bit about

1:11:58what commercial expansion requires. As

1:12:00noted in the technical modifications,

1:12:02commercial expansion does require 40%

1:12:05fenestration. That is not present here.

1:12:07The applicants are seeking a technical

1:12:09modification for that design. And I will

1:12:11let the applicants speak to why they

1:12:13are. It's staff's role to point out

1:12:14where it just doesn't align with the

1:12:16code, and that does not here. You can

1:12:18also see some signage to the bottom as

1:12:21as part of those technical modification

1:12:23requests. They're asking the signage to

1:12:25be shown on the site plan and with the

1:12:27dimensions provided in document E. Uh

1:12:30conditional zonings and commercial

1:12:32expansions generally don't provide a lot

1:12:35of guidance on sign sizes and even our

1:12:37sign regulations do not have that

1:12:39listed. So that's something to consider

1:12:41as we embark on the UDO rewrite. This is

1:12:44um for lack of a better term a real gray

1:12:47area. And so that is why there has to be

1:12:48technical modifications for signage in

1:12:51commercial expansion. Again, that is not

1:12:53unique to this project. That is a a

1:12:56feature of all commercial expansions I

1:12:57bring to you. Uh let me tell you, staff

1:12:59loves that. And then this is the fuel

1:13:03dispensal area. You can see the four

1:13:04lanes. Again, the same with the signage.

1:13:06The applicant is seeking to have the

1:13:08signage as shown on this plan with the

1:13:10dimensions be the signage and the fuel.

1:13:13And then this brings us to the technical

1:13:15modifications. One of the things I did

1:13:18not talk about when I was on the slide

1:13:20detailing the site plan is the number of

1:13:22parking spaces. The applicant is

1:13:24proposing 914 parking spaces. That is

1:13:27what is shown on the site plan. The

1:13:30applicant is asking for flexibility or

1:13:33leeway to go up to 950 parking spaces.

1:13:37We have found that it is better to

1:13:39provide a range or an upper bounds

1:13:41rather than a specific number because

1:13:43then if you ever do need some that ends

1:13:45up as a conditional

1:13:47zoning amendment and it has to come back

1:13:48before council so it is easier just to

1:13:50provide that upper bound. So they're

1:13:51asking for 50 total parking spaces. The

1:13:54applicants are also stating that they

1:13:56will provide 50 bicycle parking spaces

1:13:58which is below the 10% number which

1:14:00would be 95. staff feels that 50 bicycle

1:14:04parking spaces is appropriate and that

1:14:06will be something they will have to show

1:14:08on the final TRC plan and again in lie

1:14:11of any required bike lanes the project

1:14:13shall include that multimodal greenway

1:14:15path that runs from the bridge through

1:14:18the site following the road. But I do

1:14:19also want to point out that in this

1:14:22site, the applicant has provided a

1:14:24landing area near the Anka clock tower

1:14:27where there will be seating. There will

1:14:28be enhanced sidewalks and an area to be

1:14:31with the clock tower because

1:14:32preservation was important in 2023 to

1:14:35this council for that clock tower and

1:14:37that is what they are providing. That is

1:14:39part of that path as well. Uh there are

1:14:42some just technical requirements uh

1:14:44requirements for entrances at regular

1:14:46intervals not exceeding 75 ft just for

1:14:49maneuverability of trucks. All other

1:14:51standards for for safety and building

1:14:53will be met. Uh ground floor

1:14:56fenistration is something I've already

1:14:57talked about. And then again sandwich

1:14:59boards and the other signage are are

1:15:02your technical modifications again

1:15:04because signage regulations and

1:15:06commercial expansion do not provide

1:15:07guidance on that. So we do have to come

1:15:09before you and ask for specific

1:15:11technical modifications for signage. I

1:15:14know council does not appreciate when

1:15:16staff and applicants bring changes to

1:15:18you at the day at the day of but one

1:15:21thing we did realize is that at planning

1:15:24and zoning the sandwich board sign

1:15:26dimensions were not provided. So we

1:15:28would like to provide those for you

1:15:30today. SAP is asking that you amend this

1:15:34should you approve it so that the

1:15:36sandwich board sign would be up to a

1:15:38maximum of 72 in x 48 in.

1:15:42And that is the technical modifications

1:15:45aspect of this. Of course, the review

1:15:47process has been a

1:15:49>> this has got to be the silliest

1:15:51components of a sandwich board and a

1:15:54vinyl coming soon sign. It's a good

1:15:56example of things that we need to iron

1:15:58out in the UDO that make it really

1:15:59complicated to get the things we want

1:16:01for an affordable community.

1:16:03>> Well, and our the sandwich board's like

1:16:05in front of the store, right? Once you

1:16:07get into the property,

1:16:08>> well, it will be in front showing fuel

1:16:10prices

1:16:11>> and you have to get a permit to have one

1:16:13and it has to be constructed a certain

1:16:14way and have a chain. There's all these

1:16:16things that we just make [clears throat]

1:16:17it so hard, but having to have a Costco

1:16:20have it in their technical modifications

1:16:22is just wild. They're probably used to

1:16:24it though because I assume there's

1:16:26sandwich boards at other Costco.

1:16:29>> Yeah, I'll let the applicant speak to

1:16:30that.

1:16:30>> Regulated.

1:16:31>> I don't interrupt. If they're in

1:16:34Tennessee, it's not as big a deal.

1:16:35>> I have a a question from that I'm

1:16:38hearing from the community. I'm I'm

1:16:39excited about this project, but if we

1:16:41can go back to the modifications,

1:16:43>> actually, um, Councilwoman, if I can

1:16:45finish my presentation, I may answer

1:16:47those and then I'll happily stand for

1:16:48questions.

1:16:49>> So, this is the review process. This is

1:16:52uh this is the most recent iteration. It

1:16:55was slated uh it did go to the technical

1:16:57review committee and was approved

1:16:59November 17th, 2025. It was slated to go

1:17:02to planning and zoning on January 7th of

1:17:05this year. It did not. It is now back

1:17:06and has been through planning and

1:17:08zoning. That happened last week on

1:17:10October 7th and is before you today. and

1:17:13staff does find that it is consistent

1:17:15with that FLU designation of employment

1:17:18and anchor institution

1:17:20for the purpose that it is an important

1:17:22employment cluster and is a substantial

1:17:24anchor for the community. And then this

1:17:27this has been a challenging component

1:17:28for staff is identifying exactly which

1:17:31goal there with many projects I bring to

1:17:35you. It is substantially compliant and

1:17:37very clearly related to one goal. This

1:17:39is related to a great many goals. uh it

1:17:41encourages responsible growth. It

1:17:43increases development along transit

1:17:45corridors. Uh it preserves the historic

1:17:48structure which is called out there. And

1:17:49then there are a number of others in the

1:17:51healthy community goal which talks about

1:17:54pedestrian activation which is done with

1:17:55this multimodal. But staff does find

1:17:57that it is consistent and substantially

1:17:59compliant with the living Asheville

1:18:01comprehensive plan and we do concur with

1:18:04the planning and zoning commission and

1:18:06recommend approval of this conditional

1:18:08zoning. Thank you. Thank you, Sam.

1:18:12>> So, the question I had also includes

1:18:14Brad. Um, the 15 to 13% tree canopy

1:18:19issue. How many trees are we talking

1:18:21about? And and folks are asking why

1:18:23can't you plant them in a brown field?

1:18:25And there's a reason.

1:18:28>> So, I'll speak to the second part of

1:18:29that. Council member Romy. When you have

1:18:31a brownfield, this is a designation

1:18:33which essentially for those who aren't

1:18:35aware means that there's some sort of

1:18:36contamination at some point in the

1:18:38history of this property that is still

1:18:40present in the soils. Um when you touch

1:18:43that soil uh for any sort of

1:18:45disturbance, state law is going to

1:18:47require a certain degree of remediation

1:18:50uh when you move in and start touching

1:18:52those even for certain plantings. And

1:18:54remediation is an extraordinarily

1:18:56intensive and expensive process. In

1:18:58fact, often times you have to remove all

1:19:01of that soil um and either replace it or

1:19:04have it uh cleaned essentially and

1:19:06brought back. So it is an incredibly

1:19:08incredibly invasive process which is why

1:19:09in many cases brownfields simply remain

1:19:12undisturbed. Totally. And that includes

1:19:15uh situations where the development is

1:19:16limited only to plantings.

1:19:19>> Yes. And I will add to that and answer

1:19:21your question about how how much canopy

1:19:23are we talking about. So, in addition to

1:19:24what Brad said, the the defining feature

1:19:27of tree canopy preservation is we make

1:19:28them record a tree canopy preservation

1:19:30plat county register of deeds with the

1:19:33plat that it is maintained and preserved

1:19:35in perpetuity. There are a number of

1:19:37challenges for that brownfield area.

1:19:40There are also a uh five permitted

1:19:43exclusions that take that number down,

1:19:46including drainage easements,

1:19:48cross-sectional uh easements, government

1:19:50and utility accesses, uh easements, any

1:19:54easement authorizing tree disturbing

1:19:56activities, and areas devoted to future

1:19:58transportation, including road,

1:20:00rightway. So, to your question, how much

1:20:03are we talking about? Their area of

1:20:05compliance when you factor in all of

1:20:07those deductions is 933,533

1:20:13square ft for an area of compliance with

1:20:16tree canopy preservation. So 2% of that

1:20:19is 18,670

1:20:23in terms of of square feet for what

1:20:25would be required.

1:20:25>> 18,000 square ft that's

1:20:27>> of tree canopy. Yeah,

1:20:29>> it's not a small number.

1:20:31>> No, thank you for that level of detail.

1:20:33I expect we'll hear more of the public

1:20:35comment.

1:20:40>> Okay, we ready for a public hearing? Oh,

1:20:43does the applicant want to speak to us?

1:20:46>> Thank you, council.

1:20:56>> Yes. And then I'll switch out.

1:20:59>> I'm gonna leave this up. Uh good

1:21:01evening, mayor, vice mayor, staff. Um

1:21:04thank you. Uh we're happy to be here. My

1:21:06name is Derek Allen. I'm with Allen

1:21:08Stalin Kilborn, and I've been working

1:21:10with the Costco team for over a year and

1:21:12a half on this project. We do have

1:21:14members of that team here this evening.

1:21:16Renee Rutherford um is here in the

1:21:18black. Uh Brenda Moer, who is our

1:21:20traffic engineer, is in stripes. And

1:21:23Netty Bole, who is our lead civil

1:21:24engineer, is also in the black. Um, I

1:21:27don't think they planned that, but it's

1:21:29been kind of funny. I left this

1:21:32landscape plan up because I wanted to to

1:21:34follow up with uh Sam's yes and comment.

1:21:38Uh, if you look at this portion that's

1:21:40in the county, um, we uh had that

1:21:44included in our calculations for the

1:21:47tree canopy preservation area, and that

1:21:48would take the site to 16%. Which is

1:21:51above the 15% threshold. So, that's

1:21:53that's what we're talking about. And

1:21:54when we record that tree canopy

1:21:57preservation plat at the register of

1:21:59deeds, it would include this area which

1:22:01would put us over that 16% um we just

1:22:04can't count that air air quotes here. We

1:22:08can't count that because it's not inside

1:22:09of the city limits. So we certainly meet

1:22:11not just the um intent of the policy,

1:22:15but the whole reason for the policy is

1:22:16to preserve trees, which is what we're

1:22:18doing. Um I thought that was an

1:22:20interesting point and one that we've

1:22:21been kind of working through.

1:22:24Um Ash uh this site uh is important for

1:22:29a lot of reasons. Uh first is Costco has

1:22:32been looking at uh Asheville as a market

1:22:35for 20 plus years.

1:22:38Costco in Asheville is the number one

1:22:40requested site this portion of the

1:22:43United States.

1:22:47It's frequently related. It's frequently

1:22:50uh listed in our top employers.

1:22:53[snorts]

1:22:54There are articles that are written that

1:22:55talk about the Costco effect. The Costco

1:22:58effect brings with it a couple of

1:23:00things. One is grocery prices will go

1:23:03down. Another is wages will go up.

1:23:06Another is gas prices will go down. And

1:23:08that's not just around the store. That's

1:23:11in the community.

1:23:14Right now there are 19,000 members

1:23:16within a 45minute drive of the site.

1:23:20Right now those people are going to

1:23:22either South Carolina or Tennessee to

1:23:26shop at Costco.

1:23:29They are spending at those stores

1:23:33something like a half a million dollars

1:23:35a year at those stores. Right now, a

1:23:39Costco store on average comfortably

1:23:41generates something like $250 million in

1:23:44annual sales. So, if you start applying

1:23:46what our even our minuscule take of that

1:23:49that stays local, uh, you get to a

1:23:51pretty big number quickly.

1:23:55>> Yeah, that'd be great.

1:23:59>> I just got excited.

1:24:04>> Oh, there you go.

1:24:07And this is in our packet. Um, you can

1:24:09look at these materials, but I feel like

1:24:10I've been living this thing. Um, Costco

1:24:13on day one starts with 225 to 250 new

1:24:16jobs uh at full buildout at somewhere

1:24:18north of 400. Um, one of the things I

1:24:21think is pretty neat is a full-time

1:24:23employee uh is eligible for their

1:24:25benefits on day one, north of 95% of

1:24:28their employees elect to take those

1:24:30benefits, which shows you how good those

1:24:32benefits are. Um they have a robust uh

1:24:35uh part-time employee program. Uh each

1:24:38part-time employee is guaranteed a

1:24:40minimum of 24 hours if they would like

1:24:41it. Those part-time employees are

1:24:43eligible for their benefits on day 60.

1:24:50These are the numbers I was talking

1:24:51about in terms of the Costco members.

1:24:55In terms of the other part of the

1:24:57importance of this site, we know this

1:24:58site has been sitting there since 2005.

1:25:01Um, it does have the brown field inside

1:25:04of that. It means that there's a

1:25:05membrane that is enclosing and

1:25:07protecting uh contaminated soil. Inside

1:25:10of this brown field site is submerged

1:25:12concrete that can't be uh disturbed as

1:25:14part of that. So, it leads to a very

1:25:16difficult development site. Uh, that's

1:25:19why it's been sitting there and that's

1:25:20one of the reasons that it's been so

1:25:22difficult to make this this site work.

1:25:26The uh timeline of this particular site

1:25:29I found pretty interesting. Uh in 2007

1:25:32the buildings were demolished. Those are

1:25:34the BASF buildings. Uh Sam had uh talked

1:25:37about the reszoning from uh industrial

1:25:39to CI. This is the site here.

1:25:43In 2010 it was proposed as a big boxed

1:25:47big box style district. Um you can see

1:25:49that that's when uh the bridge was

1:25:51planned. Uh there's a movie theater in

1:25:53there. Lots of things. Uh this has been

1:25:55through a lot of different iterations.

1:25:57Um

1:26:01>> in 2021's proposed for a single

1:26:04warehouse

1:26:07and then 2023 that single warehouse was

1:26:10moved to three spec warehouses and that

1:26:13one to the north uh 136,000 ft was in

1:26:17fact built

1:26:212024 GIS shows that built out

1:26:25warehouse

1:26:27And then in 2026, this version of the

1:26:30Costco project.

1:26:34In addition to the tree canopy

1:26:35preservation issue, every project that

1:26:37we bring in front of you from the

1:26:38development community has required

1:26:40plantings. Um, this site which has

1:26:42virtually no trees on it now will have

1:26:45241 trees when we build it out. 352

1:26:49large trees, that's 90 more that are

1:26:52required by the landscaping

1:26:53requirements.

1:26:55163 medium trees, which is 52 more than

1:26:57required, and 226 small trees, which is

1:27:00126 more than are required by the

1:27:02landscaping requirements. And that gets

1:27:04us to the 266. That also brings me back

1:27:07to this point of what our ordinance

1:27:09requires by the letter and what's right

1:27:12and uh the difference between

1:27:13performative and doing what the right

1:27:15thing is. when we were meeting with the

1:27:18staff folks and electeds as we're going

1:27:20through, we talked about the Costco way

1:27:21and how Costco does things and uh the

1:27:24response on both the tree canopy

1:27:26preservation and the landscape was um we

1:27:28have a program, we do it correctly, it's

1:27:30going to it's going to look nice and so

1:27:32this is how this ends up getting

1:27:33interpreted when you put it down in

1:27:35writing and start counting the numbers.

1:27:44I've talked about the jobs. I've talked

1:27:45about the tax revenue. I've talked about

1:27:47the upward pressure on wages for

1:27:49Asheville's workers and the downward

1:27:51pressure on gas prices.

1:27:54And one of the things that's kind of

1:27:56cool about this project is um we talk

1:27:58all the time about how do we incentivize

1:28:01employers to come here? How do we uh pay

1:28:04for that? How do we get them here? Um

1:28:06we're not doing anything here except

1:28:07being a welcoming host uh and giving a

1:28:10little attention to this process. There

1:28:12are no tax incentives that go in here.

1:28:13There are no economic development

1:28:15incentives that go in here. So, it's a

1:28:17zero number compared to some of the

1:28:18other employers that we have u tried to

1:28:20attract to our area.

1:28:23Um I would like to uh thank a couple

1:28:26folks as we move through this process.

1:28:28Um Chris Collins and Sam Sarbomb were

1:28:32absolutely awesome in terms of leading

1:28:34the charge with staff. every single

1:28:36staff member uh and the staff department

1:28:38heads were awesome in terms of uh being

1:28:41creative in applying uh our ordinance

1:28:44and that's getting ready to be redone um

1:28:46to a very difficult site uh and it's a

1:28:49large important project. So we

1:28:50appreciate that. Um also thank you to

1:28:53the mayor. Uh the project wouldn't have

1:28:54come back uh if you hadn't done what you

1:28:56had done both with um softening the

1:28:59edges going to the state and directing

1:29:01staff uh appropriately. So, thank you to

1:29:03the mayor and all of city council member

1:29:06and also Brad Brandham. Um, I've tried

1:29:09to brag as much as I can on on Costco.

1:29:12They have a a culture of humility, but I

1:29:14would also like to call up Renee

1:29:15Rutherford uh who's been a project lead

1:29:18for our team uh and my main person I've

1:29:20dealt with at Costco to say a few words.

1:29:22Um, if she would.

1:29:28>> Hi there.

1:29:30>> My name's Renee Rutherford. I've been

1:29:31with Costco wholesale about for 20 years

1:29:33now and I think I've met most of you on

1:29:34the board here at city council. Um thank

1:29:37you for the opportunity to be here.

1:29:38We're we're very excited. Um we know

1:29:40this has been a difficult project and

1:29:42over the last what's it been 16 months

1:29:45mayor you've been very helpful uh Sam

1:29:47very very helpful. It's been very

1:29:49encouraging and so um thank you. We'd be

1:29:52honored to be part of this community and

1:29:53and uh welcome any questions that you

1:29:55guys have for this but uh thank you very

1:29:57much for your your time here.

1:29:58>> Yes. Any any questions? Thank you.

1:30:02>> Does that conclude the presentation from

1:30:04the Okay, we will head into the public

1:30:07hearing.

1:30:07>> Can can I ask one question? It's the

1:30:09burning question.

1:30:11>> When would it construction take?

1:30:14>> When would it open? What's the goal?

1:30:16>> Very good question.

1:30:17>> Good goal for us. Um, we have to go

1:30:19through technical approvals after this.

1:30:20If we get approved tonight, that

1:30:21probably goes through sometime of next

1:30:23spring and then there's a penant on site

1:30:24that needs to get relocated. So

1:30:26hopefully we can break ground next

1:30:27summer and then open the following

1:30:29spring.

1:30:29>> So I heard spring of spring a year from

1:30:32spring of 2020 is our goal right now. I

1:30:35heard. Okay.

1:30:36>> Absolutely.

1:30:36>> Thank you.

1:30:37>> Yes. Thank you.

1:30:39>> Okay. We have a few people signed up to

1:30:41speak under this item. Uh you'll have

1:30:43three minutes to speak. Please watch the

1:30:44lights on the lect turn. Green means go.

1:30:47Orange means you're getting ready to

1:30:48stop. And red means stop. And the first

1:30:50person signed up to speak is Karen

1:30:52McNeel.

1:31:00Hello, council members and mayor and

1:31:02city staff. Um, it's nice to see your

1:31:04faces in person. It's been a while since

1:31:07I have felt so compelled to stand before

1:31:10you. Um, my name is Karen McNeel and I

1:31:14serve as the chair of Asheville's Urban

1:31:16Forestry Commission. Despite our current

1:31:18status, we remain engaged, especially on

1:31:21topics related to our city's climate

1:31:23resilience. This public comment is

1:31:25supported by current urban forestry

1:31:27commission members Shardon Dietrich, Zoe

1:31:30Hy, Ed Macy, AJ Hardy, and Don Chavez,

1:31:34and previous UFC chair Amy Smith.

1:31:37I am here to speak about Costco's

1:31:39request for a reduction in fee and loose

1:31:41site requirements from 15 to 13%. The

1:31:44applicant stated rationale is given that

1:31:47portions of the property are in

1:31:48brownfields, easements or other

1:31:50jurisdictions.

1:31:52This would be the first known project to

1:31:54red to receive a reduced fee and loot

1:31:56requirement.

1:31:58What type of message did this does this

1:32:00send to smaller locallyowned businesses

1:32:03who have not asked for this type of

1:32:04waiver and chose instead to follow our

1:32:07city's development guidelines?

1:32:09Businesses that have been willing to

1:32:10play by the rules. businesses that have

1:32:12shown they care about our community by

1:32:14helping us respectfully balance the need

1:32:16for development with the equal need for

1:32:18a healthy livable environment.

1:32:20The consequences of granting Costco a

1:32:23reduction in site requirements aka a

1:32:25fianl waiver include the potential for

1:32:28all future development proposals to

1:32:30receive a waiver adding up to

1:32:31significant perpetual loss of urban

1:32:34trees, loss of essential green

1:32:36infrastructure and loss of climate

1:32:37resilience long into the future. We ask

1:32:40that when it comes time for the

1:32:41technical review committee to vote on

1:32:43the final project proposal that city

1:32:45council will have recommended Costco

1:32:47fulfill their family requirement of 15%.

1:32:50[snorts] And this question is just for

1:32:51me. Um, I heard in the presentation that

1:32:54Costco is planning on planting extra

1:32:57landscaping trees and what I ask of

1:33:01Costco is to please do our community a

1:33:03favor and factor in the math for that

1:33:0515% fee loo so that you are not setting

1:33:08this president this pre this precedent

1:33:11of a reduced site requirement. Thank

1:33:13you.

1:33:15>> Thank you.

1:33:18>> Uh, next is Sharon Summerall.

1:33:26Hello everybody. Sharon Summerall. Um I

1:33:29was on the urban forestry commission

1:33:30when we drafted this proposal and it was

1:33:33two and a half long years working with

1:33:35staff. Um, I want to thank STEM Starbomb

1:33:39for giving me the math because Keith is

1:33:41uh Aken is on vacation and I was trying

1:33:44to figure out what 2% is and I'm trying

1:33:46to quantify how many trees that is and

1:33:49I'm thinking it's about 35 trees. And so

1:33:52how much is that per tree? I don't know

1:33:54because Keith is gone. But as a

1:33:55landscape contractor that's not a whole

1:33:57lot of money. When I was reviewing plans

1:34:00from the city of Asheville, um I want to

1:34:02talk about a particular hotel which I

1:34:04can't remember the name of. of it's down

1:34:06on the rad. They had a huge railroad

1:34:08easement that took up almost twothirds

1:34:10of their property and they it was

1:34:13heavily treed and they wanted the credit

1:34:16for those trees and we told them that

1:34:18they couldn't have the credit for the

1:34:19trees. It was railroad easement and they

1:34:22paid the fee in Lou and they planted the

1:34:247-Eleven 3. So my concern is is that

1:34:27there are many people that come here

1:34:29that have got we live in the mountains.

1:34:30We've got a lot of easement issues.

1:34:33Costco of all the people shouldn't be

1:34:35asking for a waiver of 2%. Um, we've got

1:34:39a ton of of developments that come

1:34:42through here that are a lot less moneyed

1:34:46and maybe will struggle. I do know that

1:34:49I reviewed a plan on Swanoa River Road

1:34:51that was uh senior housing and they also

1:34:54asked for it and I was reviewing at the

1:34:57time and said the urban forestry

1:34:58commission does not agree. They're

1:35:00building it now and they're complying

1:35:01with it. So, I am just concerned about

1:35:04the future. I understand why they're

1:35:06doing it and I appreciate the extra

1:35:08trees they're planting on the fire road.

1:35:11Those trees are not to the UDO

1:35:12requirements, but any tree in my world

1:35:14is a good tree. But I would like to keep

1:35:17that ordinance as it is. Thank you very

1:35:19much.

1:35:19>> Thank you.

1:35:22>> Uh, next is Mike Craop.

1:35:30Good evening, mayor, city council.

1:35:33Um,

1:35:36so, um, I want to start saying, um, very

1:35:39much in favor of Costco coming to

1:35:41Asheville. I just don't think the Anka

1:35:44site is the right one. Um, and simply

1:35:47because of traffic.

1:35:49Um, I live in Canandler and drive Smoky

1:35:52Park, past that site every day to work

1:35:55in Asheville. And along with my fellow

1:35:57commuters, I'm already losing hours of

1:35:59my life sitting in traffic.

1:36:02And I'd like to focus on the

1:36:04intersection with Smokeoky,

1:36:06sorry, Sand Hill Road in Smokey Park.

1:36:09The uh in their traffic impact study,

1:36:12they say the intersection currently

1:36:14operates with a failing level of service

1:36:17for several approaches. failing level of

1:36:20surface for the overall intersection and

1:36:22long cues for several movements in each

1:36:25of the studied peak hour scenarios.

1:36:28These traffic conditions are projected

1:36:30to continue in the future 2028 traffic

1:36:33conditions with or without the proposed

1:36:36project in place.

1:36:38So, they're saying because it's already

1:36:40a failing intersection, it doesn't

1:36:42matter that they're going to bring a

1:36:44bunch of traffic and make it worse,

1:36:47which I don't know how that's really

1:36:49acceptable.

1:36:51And yeah, I mean, you can look at the

1:36:52numbers. There's a currently a,000 foot

1:36:56Q that turns into a 30,000 foot Q. So,

1:36:59like a half a mile you're sitting at at

1:37:02that intersection.

1:37:04And yeah, so I guess just before you

1:37:06guys approve it, um either help Costco

1:37:10find a better site or

1:37:12find a way to make improvements at that

1:37:14intersection.

1:37:16Thanks.

1:37:16>> Thank you.

1:37:20>> Uh the last person signed up to speak

1:37:22under public comment is Kelly

1:37:24Eisenhower.

1:37:30>> Hi, good evening uh mayor and council

1:37:33members. I'm here. My name is Kelly

1:37:34Eisenhower. My family lives in

1:37:36Canandler, very close to the proposed

1:37:38site for Costco's interests. I almost

1:37:40didn't come. I have two young boys that

1:37:42I have to volunteer coach. I love

1:37:44volunteer coaching and several several

1:37:46sports and on top of long hours in a

1:37:48medical field where I have one-on-one

1:37:50time to hear patients concerns and

1:37:52ailments from all over Bunkham and

1:37:53Henderson counties. I'm currently

1:37:55missing my son's baseball game, which I

1:37:57am not happy about, but that's how

1:37:59important this is. Uh the reason I

1:38:02decided to come in was I was stuck on

1:38:05Sardis Road like thousands and thousands

1:38:07of other commuters heading home from

1:38:09work or school and locked at the Anka

1:38:11and locked right there at uh Anka

1:38:13Intermediate. I looked up and saw the

1:38:15sky and it was beautiful. It was

1:38:17wonderful and we saw the mountains that

1:38:19Costco's there that's no longer there.

1:38:21You can't see the mountains on that sand

1:38:23hills uh area. Another thing is

1:38:28I made it one minute before my son's

1:38:31first home run. If that Costco was

1:38:33there, I wouldn't have made that home

1:38:34run. And it was his first home run of

1:38:36his baseball season.

1:38:39The uh I cried for joy, but in worry

1:38:41because with the increase of over 12,000

1:38:44more cars on these back roads, I will

1:38:46and many others will miss that first

1:38:48home run, that band recital,

1:38:49kindergarten graduation, soccer goals,

1:38:52or frankly dinner with their families.

1:38:54I'm not the only one that has lost sleep

1:38:56over this. I've talked with many people

1:38:57on both sides of the aisle that have

1:39:00come together to oppose this location

1:39:02with the amount of road construction

1:39:03Asheville has endured and the influx in

1:39:05traffic. And I know Kimon just talked

1:39:07about this on her recent post about

1:39:09South Asheville and that Sweet and Creek

1:39:11area. Um I work in Fletcher. I'm in that

1:39:14traffic. It doesn't even compare to that

1:39:17coming home commuter traffic in Bard,

1:39:19Sardis, and Sand Hill. The only

1:39:21difference is that we get a break on the

1:39:23weekends. We get to take our kids to

1:39:26their games. We get to take our kids to

1:39:27soccer and baseball and go enjoy

1:39:29Asheville. If that Costco is there,

1:39:32we're in that traffic all the time. And

1:39:34no, I didn't hear anyone other than the

1:39:36gentleman before me really talk about

1:39:38that traffic concern.

1:39:41The this area is not the area for Costco

1:39:44or any other major box store. Widening

1:39:46these roads, if even possible, will make

1:39:49the people of Canandler endure years and

1:39:50years of slowdowns, jump trucks,

1:39:52semi-truckss, flat tires, chip

1:39:54windshields, angry drivers, and more car

1:39:56accidents and missed home runs.

1:39:59The proposed site is currently within a

1:40:01mile of four schools. Due to this bus

1:40:03driver shortage, the car rider lines are

1:40:05infinite. Most parents and grandparents

1:40:07have to get from one school to the other

1:40:10uh within that time period and make it

1:40:11to pick up those kids, which I also kind

1:40:14of feel appalling that the site would

1:40:16have been chosen [clears throat] in that

1:40:18area of around four schools. If we look

1:40:21back at what South Asheville and East

1:40:22Asheville have become, they have become

1:40:24concrete versions of themselves. Random

1:40:27apartments pop up where nature trails

1:40:28used to be. My husband and I along with

1:40:31many others have moved to the Asheville

1:40:32area for the beauty and the nature and

1:40:34not to be a small Charlotte or Raleigh.

1:40:36And I do want to bring up one more

1:40:38thing. You did talk about the ground in

1:40:40the school. I want to get that in.

1:40:41>> How is that going to be safe for the

1:40:43kids at the Enk Intermediate School if

1:40:45that ground comes up

1:40:49>> ground

1:40:51>> the ground?

1:40:53She was just she didn't

1:40:55>> So I know that there are um significant

1:40:58concerns with the road

1:41:00>> and the site and the trees and

1:41:05um we just saw the in the presentation

1:41:07there was going to be um what was

1:41:10effectively an Amazon distribution

1:41:12warehouse in 2021 which I voted against.

1:41:14It was going to be a lot of traffic too.

1:41:16Um and so I am curious what does it look

1:41:19like? What do we want in that location?

1:41:21When I voted against the Amazon and when

1:41:23I think about what it looks like to

1:41:24essentially potentially block a data

1:41:26center here, um I want a Costco here,

1:41:29but we do have to work on the roads and

1:41:31we are working on them. Um so the

1:41:33concerns are valid. Um I'm also

1:41:38>> no

1:41:40so ma'am this that's not how the city

1:41:43well first of all no one can this is

1:41:45being streamed so no one can hear you

1:41:47unless you're talking into a mic other

1:41:49than the people in this room. So, we

1:41:51allow for public comment for three

1:41:52minutes per person and we'll hear your

1:41:54concerns. And now we're done with the

1:41:56public comment. I'm going to close the

1:41:57public hearing. Council, I'm sorry. Go

1:41:59ahead, please.

1:42:00>> It's fine. I'll just um go ahead and

1:42:01move to approve the conditional zoning

1:42:03request for the property located at 264

1:42:05Inca Heritage Parkway, 274 Inca Heritage

1:42:08Parkway, 1455 San Hill Road, and find

1:42:10that the request is reasonable, is in

1:42:12the public interest, is consistent with

1:42:14the city's comprehensive plan and meets

1:42:15the development needs of the community,

1:42:17and that the request one encourages

1:42:19responsible growth, two increases

1:42:21development along transit corridors, and

1:42:23three promotes placemaking by preserving

1:42:25historic structure.

1:42:26>> Second. All right, we have a motion and

1:42:28a second.

1:42:30You

1:42:31>> if I may, Madame Mayor, can we also We

1:42:33had talked about that sign requirement.

1:42:35>> Is that something you can consider?

1:42:37>> Sandwich boards,

1:42:37>> the upper sandwich boards as part of the

1:42:39motion including the sandwich board

1:42:42included the sandwich board

1:42:43>> and the was it the banner, too, or just

1:42:44>> No, just the sandwich board up to a size

1:42:46of 72 in x 48.

1:42:48>> So, a friendly amendment.

1:42:50>> I think we just need to Yes, the motion

1:42:52includes the sandwich boards.

1:42:54>> Friendly. I have one more before we just

1:42:57>> Well, and I wanted to comment on the

1:42:58>> I resemble

1:43:04>> the the applicant is required to have a

1:43:07traffic study done and there are um

1:43:11requirements from the Department of

1:43:12Transportation regarding improvements

1:43:14that are exterior to the project. So

1:43:16along Sand Hill and Smokeoky Park. Uh so

1:43:20this this this project doesn't just go

1:43:22in without any changes to the exterior

1:43:25uh transportation infrastructure. Um I I

1:43:29my husband teaches at Inca High School.

1:43:31He sits at the Inca red light most of

1:43:33his life. So um I'm deeply familiar with

1:43:36this with this area uh and potentially

1:43:39missing baseball games and everything

1:43:41else. Uh so that that's actually one of

1:43:43the major issues we had to work on to

1:43:45bring this back to the table because

1:43:47there are also improvements that need to

1:43:50be made in addition to the improvements

1:43:52happening right now to exit 44

1:43:56there [snorts] uh at I40. So, the state

1:43:59funded two of the four improvements for

1:44:03that intersection uh with the I26

1:44:06project and there are more improvements

1:44:08that are in the engineering phase that

1:44:10are being uh scoped out in terms of the

1:44:12cost that will help traffic move um in

1:44:14and out and along um Smoky Park. So stay

1:44:18tuned for that because that is

1:44:20definitely a high growth area. It is

1:44:23very difficult in Bunkham County and

1:44:25western North Carolina to find sites

1:44:28that can host this kind of a facility.

1:44:31Has to be close to a highway. Has to be

1:44:33able to get semi-tractor trailers in and

1:44:35out of it. Has to be able to move

1:44:36traffic in and out of it. We simply do

1:44:39not have a lot of spaces that can

1:44:42facilitate

1:44:44um this type of of uh enterprise, if you

1:44:47will. So, so believe me, I'm sure that

1:44:50the the team that looks for land that's

1:44:53appropriate for this um did so uh

1:44:56thoroughly. The other issue for Costco,

1:44:59I assume, is that they have to kind of

1:45:01space them out a little bit. It's not um

1:45:03you know, maybe putting one at the

1:45:04airport doesn't make sense when you've

1:45:05got one down in Greenville, but getting

1:45:07them up here where a lot of people are

1:45:09requesting that one be placed um made

1:45:13sense for them. So, I frankly I'm glad

1:45:16to see a use of that site. It's been

1:45:17sitting vacant for ever. Um, and part of

1:45:20what Costco is going to do is to help

1:45:22rehabilitate the clock tower, which is

1:45:25great for the for the Candler brand. Um,

1:45:28we we like to see that. So, I should say

1:45:31for the Inca brand. Uh, but there, you

1:45:34know, I I think the the other thing I

1:45:36think you mentioned was the the site

1:45:38where the Costco goes is a Brownsfield

1:45:39site, which means that it had to be um

1:45:43uh it already had to be

1:45:45>> remediated.

1:45:47um it means that also it's deed

1:45:49restricted so it can't be used for

1:45:50certain things like housing and and

1:45:52things like that. So again another

1:45:54limitation on what can go at this site.

1:45:56I don't know that it has anything to do

1:45:58with the school what you're talking

1:45:59about down down uh farther down Sand

1:46:03Hill Road. So those are two separate uh

1:46:06I don't even know if you can put a

1:46:08school where where this site is because

1:46:10it is a Brownsfield site. So um I hope

1:46:13that addresses some or all of the

1:46:15concerns. I know there's still a ways to

1:46:17go to before the shovel is in the ground

1:46:20for this project, but I really feel like

1:46:24this is important for Asheville because

1:46:26not not only will it create jobs and

1:46:29Costco is a great employer and keeps

1:46:31their employees for a for a long time

1:46:33compared with other retailers and pays

1:46:36better than other retailers, but we are

1:46:38hearing from struggling families and

1:46:40households about the cost of living and

1:46:43the need for um anything and everything

1:46:45that that we can do to bring to bear uh

1:46:48to to make lives more affordable for

1:46:50people here in Asheville. So, I'm glad

1:46:52to be able to lighten the load a little

1:46:54bit for folks um by bringing this

1:46:56opportunity to Asheville.

1:46:58>> Thank you, Mayor. I know you worked very

1:46:59hard on it. I appreciate your efforts.

1:47:01Um question for Brad real quick before

1:47:03we vote. There was mention of precedent

1:47:07on the tree canopy. I haven't been able

1:47:10to look through every detail of all of

1:47:12these exhibits, so I'm not sure of the

1:47:13exact language. Does this language when

1:47:15we allow the 13% reference the adjacent

1:47:19parcel at all? I'm just thinking down

1:47:22the road,

1:47:22>> the part that's in the county,

1:47:23>> right? I'm just thinking down the road

1:47:25because if we were to face precedent, I

1:47:26would love to be able to say yes and

1:47:29because of this adjacent parcel and I

1:47:31know if it sounded like there was

1:47:32another um Miss Summerall pointed to

1:47:35another situation where they had

1:47:36encumbered the same thing. I just

1:47:38wondering legally if there's something

1:47:39we should look for.

1:47:41>> Thank you for the question, Council

1:47:42Member Turner. Uh the the short answer

1:47:44is is really that the conditional zoning

1:47:47process allows council to consider these

1:47:50applications individually.

1:47:52>> Um I do not believe any deviation uh on

1:47:55this particular issue or really any

1:47:57similar issue would create any kind of a

1:48:00legal precedent which would force

1:48:01council's hand in the future. Uh as has

1:48:04already been mentioned on this

1:48:05particular lot, there are uh specific

1:48:07unique characteristics whereby a portion

1:48:10of the lot actually is not in the city,

1:48:12but it's still part of the lot and part

1:48:14of the application. It will also be part

1:48:17of the deed restriction, which is

1:48:20actually going to include some of the

1:48:21trees that if it had been in the city of

1:48:24Asheville would have in fact met and

1:48:26exceeded the tree protection ordinance.

1:48:28So those trees even though don't satisfy

1:48:31technically the 15% are trees that will

1:48:34be included in the protection uh

1:48:36covenants which will file. They just

1:48:38happen to sit

1:48:39>> over next county. So I I will say again

1:48:41just to reiterate um there are unique

1:48:44elements on this particular site which I

1:48:46think support council's ability to

1:48:48deviate if it chooses to do so. Uh but

1:48:51the CZ process allows you to look at

1:48:53each one of these individually and make

1:48:55these deviations where you feel it's

1:48:57reasonable. I think that's really

1:48:58helpful detail. Thank you.

1:49:00>> Okay, we have a motion and a second.

1:49:03>> All those in favor, please say I. I. Any

1:49:06opposed?

1:49:08>> All right, that's a unanimous vote.

1:49:10Thank you very much.

1:49:10>> Good luck with TRC.

1:49:12>> Yeah.

1:49:14All right. We have um

1:49:18one item of unfinished business and this

1:49:20is a resolution approving the

1:49:22substantial amendment to the home

1:49:24American Rescue Plan allocation plan. We

1:49:27already had the public hearing as

1:49:28required on September 22nd. So we will

1:49:32not be taking any additional comment

1:49:34tonight.

1:49:36>> Council, unless there are any questions,

1:49:38I think we just need a motion.

1:49:40>> Sure. I'm happy to follow up. It's

1:49:41actually a very simple motion and I move

1:49:42to approve the proposed substantial

1:49:44amendment to the home allocation plan.

1:49:46>> All right. Do we have a second?

1:49:47>> Second.

1:49:48>> All right. We have a motion and a

1:49:49second.

1:49:50>> Mayor, uh, I have a friendly amendment.

1:49:54>> Oh,

1:49:54>> what to the

1:49:55>> I don't Okay, hold on. Who's the staff

1:49:57on this? I don't even know if we have

1:49:59staff here.

1:50:00>> James is here.

1:50:01>> You want to tell us a little bit about

1:50:02what this is? [laughter]

1:50:04>> What you got?

1:50:05>> Well, it's what I talked about last

1:50:06time.

1:50:08>> So, I talked to Brad about it earlier

1:50:10today. So, uh, basically I move to amend

1:50:12the original motion to also direct the

1:50:16city manager to review and strengthen

1:50:19oversight of home ARP funds distributed

1:50:22to nonprofit partners. Uh the report

1:50:25shall identify

1:50:28non or anonymized recipient information,

1:50:31the amounts awarded, the expenditures

1:50:34for direct assistance, what they paid

1:50:36for staffing, administration, how many

1:50:39households were served, and the

1:50:40outcomes.

1:50:41>> Oh gosh, there's a few things that are

1:50:44come naturally.

1:50:46>> You look ready.

1:50:47>> We'd be happy to support that, Council

1:50:48Member Hess. And that's those are that's

1:50:50pretty typical [clears throat] for most

1:50:51programmatic agreements we have for any

1:50:53agency that we partner with as well as

1:50:55every budget that we execute. So if you

1:50:57look

1:50:57>> you can do that.

1:50:58>> So the difference is that

1:51:01>> I want us to get the report

1:51:04publicly not you guys just get the

1:51:07report and we never see it or the public

1:51:09doesn't see where their tax dollars are

1:51:10going. So that's great. But I think the

1:51:13public wants to see that when we're

1:51:15spending a million dollars on

1:51:16homelessness or mental health or

1:51:18whatever it is that that's going

1:51:19directly to those services and resources

1:51:22for the most vulnerable people on the

1:51:23street. That's that's the difference is

1:51:26that

1:51:27>> a lot of that stuff is built into it. So

1:51:28it sounds like if staff are okay with

1:51:30it, I'm happy to support the amendment.

1:51:32>> I'm happy to support that as well. We

1:51:33also publish an annual consolidated

1:51:35annual performance and evaluation

1:51:37report. We actually just concluded our

1:51:39public comment period on that annual

1:51:41report that includes all the

1:51:42expenditures from every year, the

1:51:44outcomes, how it's spent. So, we'd be

1:51:46happy to to build on that, too.

1:51:48>> Yeah.

1:51:48>> And I think the big point I heard though

1:51:50is that because we deal with this at our

1:51:53consortium, but then we bring it back

1:51:54for approval and just kind of like stamp

1:51:56it as a council, but we don't actually

1:51:58review it at length. And maybe this

1:51:59time,

1:52:00>> maybe it can be the subject of a

1:52:01manager's report

1:52:03>> distilled down into a presentation

1:52:04format. Exactly what I'm thinking. Yeah,

1:52:07>> that's super helpful. I um I accept the

1:52:08friendly amendment. Do you second?

1:52:10>> So

1:52:11>> you

1:52:13Okay.

1:52:14>> Okay.

1:52:15>> Okay. We have a motion to approve this

1:52:18item, including the reporting described

1:52:20by Councilman.

1:52:22>> That was the Well, yeah, it's just Yeah,

1:52:25we'll get to Yeah,

1:52:26>> I think we're okay.

1:52:27>> Okay. All those in favor, please say I.

1:52:29I.

1:52:29>> Any opposed?

1:52:30>> All right. Thank you. Um, we have next

1:52:33under new business, Emily Ball is here

1:52:35to present a resolution. This is very

1:52:37exciting. Drum roll. Resolution

1:52:40authorizing the city manager to accept

1:52:42funding from Destination Home for the

1:52:44right initiative in the amount of $6

1:52:46million and approval of an associated

1:52:49budget amendment.

1:52:51Emily Ball, whose title is

1:52:54>> Good evening. Emily Ball. I'm the

1:52:55homeless strategy division manager here

1:52:57at the city of Asheville in the housing

1:52:58and economic development department. Uh,

1:53:00and in that role. I'm the lead staff for

1:53:03the Asheville Bunkham Continuum of Care,

1:53:04which is our community's collaborative

1:53:06planning body on homelessness response.

1:53:09I am going to share a few updates with

1:53:11you about continuum of care activities u

1:53:14that have occurred since I was here with

1:53:15you last and then also going to share

1:53:16with you about the right at home

1:53:18initiative.

1:53:20First want to share that our annual

1:53:23federal funding from HUD, US Department

1:53:25of Housing and Urban Development, um the

1:53:27FY2026 COC program consolidated

1:53:31application was submitted. That's about

1:53:32$2.6 million for our community. Um

1:53:36pointing that out because that has there

1:53:38have been a number of changes in that

1:53:39over the past year and HUD has a number

1:53:41of policy shifts and u priority changes

1:53:44to that particular funding. So what we

1:53:47saw in this year's application process

1:53:49is a shift from housing first and

1:53:51permanent housing to treatment first and

1:53:53transitional housing. That meant that we

1:53:56had renewal projects from Homebound and

1:53:58Helmate as anticipated and also the

1:54:00city's project for the homeless

1:54:02management information system, but also

1:54:05we had projects from new partners um for

1:54:08transitional housing. So that's ABCCCM,

1:54:11Elida Homes, Hwood Street, and Western

1:54:13Carolina Rescue Ministries. we've it's

1:54:15first year that we've had applications

1:54:16from those folks for this particular

1:54:19funding stream. Um HUD is expected to

1:54:22announce those awards in December.

1:54:25And then secondly, want to share that we

1:54:27are in full swing in code purple

1:54:29planning for the coming season. Um the

1:54:31code purple sites identified are listed

1:54:34on the screen here. So ABCCM's

1:54:35transformation village will provide

1:54:37shelter again for women and women with

1:54:39children. Haywood Street newly will

1:54:42provide code purple shelter. Um that'll

1:54:44be three to 10 beds depending on the

1:54:46particular time of year and we'll

1:54:48publish all of these details but that's

1:54:50a new partner in Code Purple.

1:54:52Homewardbound is going to be operating

1:54:54um shelter for men and for couples and

1:54:58people with pets at Salvation Army's

1:55:00Center of Hope. As you're familiar with

1:55:02Salvation Army is pausing operations at

1:55:05Center of Hope. It has made that

1:55:06building available for coat purple this

1:55:08season with a partner to operate that

1:55:10and home rebound. So, it's used. So,

1:55:12everyone, don't get too excited because

1:55:13Salvation Army is not saved, but it is

1:55:16going to be operating. The building will

1:55:19be operated.

1:55:19>> That's enormous news.

1:55:21>> Well, it just gets us through code

1:55:22purple,

1:55:23>> but it's been an emergency I've been

1:55:24worried about. Thank you.

1:55:26>> So, yeah,

1:55:27>> although we're short on code purple beds

1:55:30for this winter, we still need to

1:55:32identify additional funds to be able to

1:55:34expand the program.

1:55:36I think our I think our bed plan is very

1:55:38strong for code purple partly because

1:55:40that next bullet we have overflow sites

1:55:42this year which I think uh we had that

1:55:43last year for the first time safe

1:55:45shelter is planning to operate overflow

1:55:47sites that will get triggered if needed

1:55:50based on utilization at those other

1:55:51locations. Um code purple is expected to

1:55:55be called or expected to be available,

1:55:57excuse me, when the temperature hits

1:55:59beginning November 1st. And and as Mayor

1:56:02Mannheimr mentioned, the COC board is

1:56:04evaluating funding needs and exploring

1:56:06opportunities for additional funds. So

1:56:08anticipating that we may need additional

1:56:10dollars for the uh code purple plan for

1:56:13this season.

1:56:14>> And how many beds can we anticipate that

1:56:17safe safe shelter can take?

1:56:20>> Most likely um because of temporary use

1:56:23permitting restrictions, any any

1:56:26temporary site is most likely to be

1:56:27capped at 20 beds. And so we may have

1:56:29multiple sites of 20 beds.

1:56:32>> Uh is it does it end April 1st or May

1:56:351st?

1:56:37>> April 30th.

1:56:38>> April 30th. Okay.

1:56:39>> And then even if we have zoned that safe

1:56:44shelter area

1:56:46>> zoning for a shelter, does it still have

1:56:48the temporary use restrictions? these uh

1:56:52the temporary use is based on I may need

1:56:55some help from other people in the room

1:56:56but is based on zoning is a is a

1:56:59criterion but uh based I can't talk

1:57:02about this

1:57:02>> congregation it's just did we oh we

1:57:05probably authorized a specific number of

1:57:07beds

1:57:08>> with that nonreate or something

1:57:12if you could repeat your question so I

1:57:14can make sure I'm answering correctly.

1:57:15Uh well uh council member Rooney asked

1:57:18you to know about the capac or actually

1:57:19council member Smith about the capacity

1:57:21of safe shelter and uh I guess there was

1:57:24a limit based on the temporary use

1:57:26restriction but we had actually changed

1:57:29that zoning so that that could be a

1:57:31permanent shelter. So even with that are

1:57:34they still under the requirements of the

1:57:36temporary use or could they in other

1:57:38words expand from 20 to 40 beds?

1:57:41>> I can actually speak to that and not

1:57:43only because Ben just told me something.

1:57:44[laughter]

1:57:46But I believe what you're referring to

1:57:47is a safe shelter regular shelter

1:57:49location on Haywood Road. So these

1:57:51overflow sites they're looking at would

1:57:53be elsewhere, not in that regular

1:57:54shelter location.

1:57:56>> Okay.

1:57:56>> Okay, that makes sense.

1:57:57>> So I want to make sure I heard correctly

1:57:59though. So we do have enough code purple

1:58:03beds. However, to execute it, we may

1:58:06need more funding.

1:58:08>> I'll tell you that I think that we have

1:58:10enough code purple beds and every year

1:58:12it is different, right? We will see what

1:58:14utilization looks like. It is absolutely

1:58:17>> material that Salvation Army's regular

1:58:19shelter operation is ending November 1st

1:58:22and so that's 65 regular beds that we

1:58:24won't have available. Uh so it it may be

1:58:26that needs exceed the numbers that you

1:58:28see on the screen, but I think the plan

1:58:30to activate overflow sites as needed is

1:58:33a really positive addition. Just gives

1:58:34us some flexibility that we've not

1:58:36previously [cough] had. Okay.

1:58:37>> Um and and yes, I uh providers are

1:58:40anticipating a need for additional

1:58:41funding.

1:58:42Okay.

1:58:49>> All right. A few more updates about

1:58:50continuum of care work. Um, in the

1:58:52community, you may be familiar with

1:58:54this. The COC coordinated the first

1:58:55community cleanup event along Tunnel

1:58:57Road in August. We had a lot of

1:58:59participation in that event. We had 46

1:59:01volunteers who collected 69 bags of

1:59:04trash. Uh participants in that included

1:59:07COC members, service provider staff,

1:59:09Kennallworth neighbors, and people with

1:59:10lived experiences homelessness. So great

1:59:13opportunity for those folks to connect

1:59:14with each other in that area. And the

1:59:16COC's community relations committee

1:59:18expects to continue those cleanup events

1:59:20quarterly and is looking to expand those

1:59:23into other parts of the community.

1:59:26We also have been meeting I have been

1:59:28meeting with a small leadership group of

1:59:29folks in that area uh the tunnel row

1:59:31corridor coalition leaders as well as

1:59:33executive leaders from homebound and

1:59:36sunrise um along with some other

1:59:38partners. APD has been participating in

1:59:40that. We've met several times to work on

1:59:42coallesing around some shared

1:59:44identification of problems and then

1:59:46sharing and solution development right

1:59:47now looking at things like traffic

1:59:49safety in that area and how to improve

1:59:51that for everyone around there. Are are

1:59:54we giving money right now to Sunrise

1:59:57Community? I don't think they're one of

1:59:59our partners now. Okay. They're just a

2:00:02maybe operational partner.

2:00:05>> Sunrise.

2:00:05>> Yeah.

2:00:07>> Of the cities.

2:00:08>> Yeah.

2:00:09>> Uhuh.

2:00:09>> The city's not currently funding

2:00:11Sunrise,

2:00:11>> right?

2:00:13>> But you're working with them just like

2:00:14collaboratively, you know, just as an

2:00:16operational partner.

2:00:18>> Yeah, that's right. I neighbors in that

2:00:19area.

2:00:20>> Okay.

2:00:24Uh we also you may you may recall that

2:00:27previously um Debbie Alfred on our team

2:00:29led homelessness learning series

2:00:31throughout the community. Um that was

2:00:33prior to the COC being established and

2:00:35then we sort of paused that as the

2:00:38community relations committee was

2:00:39standing up. We're going to be renewing

2:00:40that through the community relations

2:00:42committee. Um, but we know that folks

2:00:44across the community have a lot of

2:00:45questions and concerns about

2:00:46homelessness and so want to be advancing

2:00:49efforts to do some community education

2:00:51and engagement there.

2:00:53Um, the COC board has also you you again

2:00:56may recall that we received a Dogwood

2:00:59Health Trust grant for COC development

2:01:01prior to immediately prior to the COC

2:01:03being established. The board is

2:01:05dedicating some of those grant funds for

2:01:07strategic communications again to help

2:01:09the community understand more about the

2:01:11work of the COC and about the issues

2:01:12that it's engaging with. And then

2:01:14lastly, we have a new website coming

2:01:16soon uh for the continuum of care that

2:01:18will also include public facing data

2:01:20from service providers to improve

2:01:22understanding about performance of

2:01:24programs and how the system overall is

2:01:27resolving homelessness.

2:01:32happy to answer any questions about that

2:01:33or I'll

2:01:34>> I have one question right early in the

2:01:36beginning you said something that caught

2:01:37my ear and I didn't want to interrupt

2:01:38you. You said and I don't know if it was

2:01:41you or the the funding initiative was

2:01:44changing a perspective but a transition

2:01:46to treatment first instead of housing

2:01:49first. Can you repeat what you said?

2:01:51>> Yes, it's it's here in that second

2:01:53bullet or first sub bullet. Um there's a

2:01:55policy shift at the federal level from

2:01:57HUD from a housing first approach to a

2:02:00treatment first approach.

2:02:01>> Meaning so in housing first is just I

2:02:03mean literally like it sounds it doesn't

2:02:05matter the state you're in will get you

2:02:06housed. But now we're there's a movement

2:02:08from HUD that we're now going to have to

2:02:10adhere to that is you can get into

2:02:12housing after you've se sought

2:02:13treatment. So I think is it the way that

2:02:16ABCCCM often does it in that their

2:02:18voucher comes to them for the treatment

2:02:20and in exchange for the treatment they

2:02:23provide housing for the people getting

2:02:26treatment. Is it that approach?

2:02:28>> I would say that the treatment first and

2:02:29transitional housing approach uh does

2:02:31look similar to programs that we have in

2:02:33the community that are often more

2:02:34residential and focused on treatment and

2:02:37recovery prior to then supporting folks

2:02:40in accessing permanent housing.

2:02:42interesting.

2:02:43>> Sometimes folks will get into like we'll

2:02:46be able to get them housing for example,

2:02:49>> but um they may still be struggling with

2:02:52their bipolar or schizophrenia and so

2:02:54we'll put them in housing and because

2:02:57they're not fully stable on their

2:02:59medications, then all of a sudden they

2:03:00relapse on substances or they're letting

2:03:03people in and then all of a sudden now

2:03:04they're kicked out and people are

2:03:06squatting in that house and then it

2:03:07creates an issue for the landlord. So I

2:03:10think the idea is if we can get folks

2:03:12stabilized, wraparound services, and

2:03:15then get people in housing, what we

2:03:18found is that it makes them much more

2:03:20successful.

2:03:21>> And and I understand all that. I mean,

2:03:22these are great things that we've been

2:03:23taught for a number of years. I'm just a

2:03:25little taken back by I mean, everything

2:03:27we've been taught there are books about

2:03:29housing first and we are we adopting

2:03:33these policies because these are I mean

2:03:35>> that's an important question that so

2:03:39I'm saying how is this going to trickle

2:03:41throughout our organization. You you

2:03:42rarely come before us. You're such a

2:03:43wealth of knowledge. I'm I'm curious

2:03:45about your

2:03:46>> if you want the funding you'll

2:03:48>> very significant shift at the federal

2:03:50level. You're right that housing first

2:03:51has been a federal priority for a number

2:03:53of years. Um

2:03:56two things I would point out. This is

2:03:58specific to the FY26 or to the COC

2:04:01program funding which again is about

2:04:03$2.6 million for us. Uh we're doing some

2:04:06mapping right now with service providers

2:04:08about overall annual spending. So we'll

2:04:10be able to to look at that collectively

2:04:12across the community soon. I believe

2:04:15$2.6 million is probably a drop in the

2:04:17bucket in our overall community

2:04:18spending. Um but we will learn more

2:04:21about that. We'll make all of that

2:04:22public facing as that comes forward. And

2:04:24then secondly, I do think I'm so glad

2:04:27you asked that question. I think it's

2:04:28really important to be very clear that

2:04:31the Asheville Bunkham continuum of care

2:04:33does not have a policy position in any

2:04:36direction. Our particular COC is built

2:04:38to be inclusive of everyone who's taking

2:04:40action on this issue and bringing folks

2:04:42together to solve problems.

2:04:43>> Is there any concern that it could be

2:04:45prohibitive to people getting housed?

2:04:48It definitely reshapes the use of those

2:04:50dollars for a very different likely a

2:04:53very different population served um and

2:04:56certainly a different program model.

2:04:58>> Well, the issue is that we don't have

2:05:00the mental health or substance use

2:05:02actually treatment infrastructure here

2:05:04>> to supplement this.

2:05:06>> Exactly. And so that's it.

2:05:07>> It's a little alarming.

2:05:09>> Yeah.

2:05:09>> Okay. I mean, we're here to follow along

2:05:11and learn, but thank you for

2:05:12>> Well, Emily's also having to watch HUD

2:05:14training videos on the merits of being

2:05:16married, so I'm not surprised to hear

2:05:18that um HUD is moving in this direction.

2:05:21>> What are the merits?

2:05:22>> Well, apparently, [laughter]

2:05:26apparently the dual income is what

2:05:28[laughter] they're promoting if you can

2:05:30swing it. But, um yeah.

2:05:31>> Oh my god. Okay. Thank you for

2:05:34>> It's just Yes, we are. I mean, news

2:05:36flash, we are having some changes on a

2:05:37federal level. Not [laughter] good ones.

2:05:41>> Um, thank you.

2:05:43>> Now, this isn't a horrible one because

2:05:45again, if

2:05:45>> which the marriage one or the

2:05:47>> Well, I mean, cuz housing homelessness

2:05:49folks have been saying housing first.

2:05:50Social workers of mental health and

2:05:52psych folks have been saying, "Whoa,

2:05:53whoa, whoa." Yes, let's do wraparound

2:05:55services. Let's get them stable because

2:05:58it makes them more successful. Now, if

2:06:00you're just homeless and you don't have

2:06:02any psych or substance use issues, then

2:06:04yes, housing first all the way. So, it's

2:06:07not all bad. The issue is, and this is

2:06:09what I don't want, is that it

2:06:11>> if someone doesn't

2:06:13>> want treatment, for example, that it

2:06:15doesn't keep them as a barrier from

2:06:18getting housing. And I think that's the

2:06:19concern that I'm hearing.

2:06:21>> Yeah.

2:06:22>> Yeah. And I would say in in this

2:06:24particular construction, that would be a

2:06:25barrier for these particular funded

2:06:28projects based on the policy priority

2:06:30from HUD.

2:06:31I'll editorialize a minute to say that

2:06:34my own opinion is that we need all of

2:06:35these things in our community. We have a

2:06:37diverse population. People need

2:06:39different things. We need a lot of tools

2:06:40in the toolkit. We just need those to be

2:06:42aligned and working together in a shared

2:06:44direction. And that is the work of the

2:06:45continuum of care.

2:06:46>> Can you come back with a deep dive about

2:06:48what the shift means? because I was in a

2:06:51conversation with a community-based

2:06:53organization who follows the housing

2:06:55first model and they talked specifically

2:06:58about a financial impact from the shift.

2:07:02>> Um, and to your point, everybody's not

2:07:04prepared for treatment or an

2:07:07alternative, right?

2:07:09>> So, what does that mean to our homeless

2:07:11strategy if this shift is not popular?

2:07:16>> Certainly happy to do that. Um, let me

2:07:18let me be clear that this transition um

2:07:21at the federal level does not allocate

2:07:23new dollars. It pulls dollars from

2:07:25existing projects at Homewardbound and

2:07:28at Helmate.

2:07:29>> Oh my gosh.

2:07:29>> Um, so that is permanent supportive

2:07:31housing at Homewardbound and Rapid

2:07:33Rehousing at Helmate. Um, so both of

2:07:36those agencies did have renewal projects

2:07:38that were included in the community

2:07:41application this year, but at a

2:07:42dramatically reduced amount compared to

2:07:45prior years.

2:07:46Thank you.

2:07:51If anyone wants to ask any questions,

2:07:52>> do you have more good news?

2:07:54>> I do have good news.

2:07:55>> She does have some. [laughter]

2:07:58>> Uh on a a very different note, we are um

2:08:01really expanding a critical initiative

2:08:03in our community or a critical service

2:08:06delivery component in our community that

2:08:07has been underresourced here and in

2:08:09communities across the country. That's

2:08:11homelessness prevention through the

2:08:12right at home initiative. And this is

2:08:14the actual action in front of you on the

2:08:16agenda this evening.

2:08:19Bit a bit of background. I think you're

2:08:20all familiar with this, but um much like

2:08:23I said, we need all of these services in

2:08:25our community because people have

2:08:26different needs. We need those different

2:08:28components to work together as a system

2:08:30in order to have effective homelessness

2:08:32response. Those components are

2:08:34prevention, diversion, street outreach

2:08:37and day services, emergency shelter and

2:08:39transitional housing, rapid rehousing,

2:08:42and permanent supportive housing.

2:08:44>> [clears throat]

2:08:44>> and developing and overseeing that full

2:08:46homelessness response system is the work

2:08:48of the COC. In the 2025 through 2028

2:08:52strategic plan approved by the COC

2:08:54board, several specific system gaps were

2:08:57identified. Those include prevention,

2:09:00diversion, emergency shelter, and rapid

2:09:03rehousing.

2:09:06Homelessness prevention is what it

2:09:08sounds like. It is stopping homelessness

2:09:09before it starts. So it is a targeted

2:09:11intervention for people most likely to

2:09:13enter homelessness typically focused on

2:09:15keeping people who are on the verge of

2:09:17eviction in their current housing by

2:09:19providing financial assistance for arars

2:09:22sometimes short-term rent if that's

2:09:24needed in order for them to stabilize in

2:09:26that unit along with supportive

2:09:28services. Um, you often in thinking

2:09:30about system work and homelessness

2:09:32response, you often see a bathtub image

2:09:35that is that is meant to say, you know,

2:09:37we have the capacity we have in our

2:09:39service system. And if we have too much

2:09:41inflow into our system that exceeds the

2:09:43capacity that we have, then we overflow

2:09:46our system with unmet need. And that's

2:09:49certainly the situation in our community

2:09:50right now and in most communities across

2:09:52the country. So the goal of prevention

2:09:54is to turn off the tap is to decrease

2:09:57inflow into that system.

2:10:01Right at home is a specific prevention

2:10:03initiative. It is a national initiative

2:10:05focused on demonstrating the efficacy of

2:10:07homelessness prevention. It's led by a

2:10:10team um based at destination home which

2:10:12is a a nonprofit with technical

2:10:14assistance from home base and research

2:10:16and evaluation from the University of

2:10:18Notre Dame's lab for economic

2:10:20opportunities. Right at home is building

2:10:22on a proven model from Santa Clara

2:10:24County, California, where they found

2:10:26that 90% of households were still housed

2:10:29after two years and that every dollar

2:10:32invested saved $247

2:10:34in community costs. So, as you heard

2:10:37earlier, it it costs a lot of money to

2:10:39provide homelessness response. It is

2:10:40effective use of funds to to stop

2:10:43homelessness before it starts.

2:10:45The goal of Right at Home is to prevent

2:10:48thousands of families from losing their

2:10:49homes while also creating a clear and

2:10:52evidence-based blueprint for a national

2:10:54homelessness prevention strategy. Right

2:10:56at Home will be a three-year pilot in 10

2:10:58communities with each community serving

2:11:00at least a thousand households.

2:11:04You can see the pilot communities here.

2:11:06We're certainly the smallest. Um so we

2:11:10have a lot of great peer communities

2:11:12participating in this pilot where we'll

2:11:14have a lot of opportunity to learn from

2:11:16folks across the country about what's

2:11:17working. The selection criteria for

2:11:20pilot communities was demonstrated need

2:11:22for homelessness prevention which we

2:11:23certainly have committed public sector

2:11:26leadership and that is is a tribute to

2:11:28you all. I think it is uh it was

2:11:30important that the city is the lead

2:11:32agency for the Asheville Buckham

2:11:34continuum of care. Also when they came

2:11:36for the site visit they met with Mayor

2:11:38Mannheimr and with Deborah Campbell at

2:11:40the time um understood that we have

2:11:42strong public sector leadership in this

2:11:44area.

2:11:46Also data capacity to implement rigorous

2:11:48evaluation and strong local

2:11:50infrastructure including a lead

2:11:52organization capable of coordinating

2:11:54service providers and managing funds. Uh

2:11:56so that's again our role as the lead

2:11:58agency for the continuum of care.

2:12:04Right at home uh the model of right at

2:12:06home has 10 essential components.

2:12:09First flexible cash assistance to meet

2:12:12the need of the household. Fast to act.

2:12:15So making sure that folks don't th fall

2:12:17through the cracks because of slow

2:12:18process. A whatever it takes approach

2:12:21meaning uh being very responsive to the

2:12:24full depth of need of the household in

2:12:25order to prevent homelessness from

2:12:27occurring. No wrong door to get help.

2:12:31Supportive services that complement

2:12:32financial assistance. Targeted

2:12:35prevention for those with the greatest

2:12:36need. Commitment to tracking data in the

2:12:39homeless management information system

2:12:41or HMIS.

2:12:42participation in rigorous program

2:12:44evaluation, communitywide stakeholder

2:12:47engagement, and contribution to

2:12:49collective learning. Uh, one of the

2:12:51values of the national team is failing

2:12:53forward. So, learning is a really

2:12:55important part of this initiative

2:12:56nationwide.

2:12:58And also, um, you know, as you saw in

2:13:00the earlier slide, future national

2:13:03strategy on homelessness prevention is

2:13:05the goal of Right at Home. And so

2:13:08developing this particular initiative in

2:13:10our field is a core driver in this

2:13:13opportunity

2:13:16process to get to this point is that the

2:13:18national team engaged us after Helen

2:13:20conducted their site visit in May of

2:13:212025 and then subsequently awarded us a

2:13:25planning grant that created a project

2:13:27manager position in our on our team in

2:13:29the homeless strategy division. Sarah

2:13:31Dickerson who's here this evening doing

2:13:32a great job. Uh the COC then appointed

2:13:35the homelessness prevention work group

2:13:37to develop the plan that the COC board

2:13:39approved and then right at home approved

2:13:41this summer. And then based on that

2:13:43plan, the COC issued a request for

2:13:45applications and the board then approved

2:13:48recommended providers at their September

2:13:5010th meeting for the first year of

2:13:52implementation.

2:13:53You'll see agreements with those CO COC

2:13:56approved providers coming um for action

2:13:58on the 27th.

2:14:01The implementation plan again is a

2:14:03network approach with service providers

2:14:05working as a cohort to build a

2:14:07homelessness prevention system with

2:14:08shared standards. The providers selected

2:14:11by the COC board are ABCCCM,

2:14:14Homewardbound, Operation Gateway, and

2:14:16Episcal Services specifically to provide

2:14:19legal support for folks referred by

2:14:21those other three organizations. Those

2:14:24providers are collaborating now on final

2:14:26buildout of the plan and expect to have

2:14:28services available by January. We're

2:14:30looking to serve 250 households in the

2:14:33first year as we're as we're building

2:14:34out that capacity for that full 10,000

2:14:37households over the three-year period.

2:14:39And then our role as the lead agency is

2:14:41project management. So we will

2:14:43administer funds. We are the liaison

2:14:45with the national team and with peer

2:14:47pilot communities and then we'll report

2:14:49progress through the COC for oversight.

2:14:54So, I'm happy to answer any questions

2:14:55and then we have a suggested motion.

2:14:58>> I do have a question. I was talking with

2:15:00a family that applied for the Health and

2:15:02Human Services general assistance

2:15:04program. I know that we moved the

2:15:06funding from essentially a homeowner

2:15:09grant to this program and it's designed

2:15:13for one-time um financial hardships. And

2:15:16what I'm hearing is folks are like the

2:15:18hardship by the time I get to the

2:15:19hardship I need the money quickly. Um

2:15:22and it's not maybe working as designed

2:15:25to help with eviction prevention. Um so

2:15:29in the past we have partnered with other

2:15:32agencies because they have more

2:15:33infrastructure set up to move dollars

2:15:35and the hope was they would move

2:15:37quickly. I think about the eviction

2:15:38funds that got stuck after Helen.

2:15:41Thinking about this one that seems like

2:15:43it might be getting stuck. Um, and yet

2:15:45we're gonna run point on this one. So,

2:15:48tell me a little bit about lessons that

2:15:49we've learned and how we're not going to

2:15:51get stuck when people are in crisis.

2:15:54>> I'm not sure that I'm familiar with the

2:15:56the Health and Human Services

2:15:59>> general assistance program.

2:16:01>> So, that is distinct from right at home.

2:16:04>> It is, but it is a program that we fund

2:16:07for emergency,

2:16:09for evictions, for um it can be for

2:16:12rent, it can be for utilities. is up to

2:16:14$500 per household. It's at

2:16:16gap.bunkammannc.gov. I know we need to

2:16:18have a bigger conversation. Um, but it's

2:16:21not the first time that we've put funds

2:16:23into something like eviction protection

2:16:25and then the funds got stuck and we

2:16:27heard from the community that we weren't

2:16:29moving quickly enough for it to function

2:16:31as designed. So maybe it's a follow-up

2:16:34question. I just know that if we're

2:16:35running point on it instead of

2:16:37partnering out, then we'll have even

2:16:39more responsibility to make sure it

2:16:41doesn't get stuck. I can't speak to that

2:16:43particularly but can say where I see the

2:16:45difference between what you're

2:16:46describing and right at home is in these

2:16:4810 essential components. So fast to act

2:16:51is a specific requirement of the

2:16:52initiative for all 10 communities. There

2:16:55are particular turnaround times really

2:16:56meant to address exactly the kind of

2:16:58experience that you're describing. Um

2:17:01also our role in this we so we do again

2:17:04have dedicated project management staff

2:17:06with Sarah on our team. So Sarah's role

2:17:08is to work directly with the research

2:17:10team at University of Notre Dame and

2:17:12with the technical assistance team and

2:17:14then build up that cohort of providers

2:17:17so that they can deliver services in

2:17:19alignment with right at home. So we have

2:17:20much more robust support both in terms

2:17:23of staff capacity but also with our

2:17:26national partners for this particular

2:17:27initiative than honestly anything I have

2:17:29seen um in my time in our community.

2:17:32>> Thank you. I move to adopt a resolution

2:17:34authorizing the city. or not.

2:17:37>> I think I remember actually at the

2:17:39presentation they were saying within 24

2:17:41hours sometimes they could get

2:17:42assistance

2:17:44uh you know after applying

2:17:46>> is is that

2:17:47>> that's right that that fast act is very

2:17:49serious, very real um and should the the

2:17:52administrative process should never be a

2:17:54barrier for someone retaining their

2:17:56housing.

2:17:57>> And and so just to be clear there there

2:17:59are partners. We're not we're not

2:18:01literally writing the check, right?

2:18:03>> We're absolutely not literally writing

2:18:04the check. So we're working with these.

2:18:06>> That's right. ABCCCM homebound city to

2:18:09project management administer funds. So

2:18:11we're going to administer funds to these

2:18:13groups,

2:18:14>> right? But we won't actually directly to

2:18:16the recipients.

2:18:17>> Okay.

2:18:18>> Um and then council member Smith, I was

2:18:20thinking about what you were saying

2:18:22about kind of the switch up and like

2:18:24taking funds from some of our local. So

2:18:27maybe just kind of throwing an idea out

2:18:29there, maybe um that's where we focus

2:18:32our um funding and um support, you know,

2:18:36if it's going to be taken away at the

2:18:37federal level, maybe we can help support

2:18:39at the city level. Um just throwing that

2:18:42out out there.

2:18:44>> Can I circle back to something

2:18:46Councilwoman Rooney was saying about the

2:18:48trouble we had deploying assistance

2:18:50through partnership? Did we add any

2:18:53language about um should they encounter

2:18:56deployment deficiencies? We can recall

2:18:58it anything like that because we it is

2:19:00in there now. Is it different or was it

2:19:02always that way? Because we did we ran

2:19:04into this and I don't suspect that we'll

2:19:05have any problem with these

2:19:06organizations. I do see one name on

2:19:08there that was problematic getting

2:19:09things out the door because they were

2:19:11short staffed which impacted people's

2:19:12daily lives and some for months, right?

2:19:15Or perhaps tossed them into homelessness

2:19:17for the first time. So I just I um

2:19:22this is what you're showing. Okay.

2:19:24>> I I if I can speak to that, I'll say um

2:19:27that that these essential components are

2:19:30requirements for the initiative for all

2:19:3210 pilot communities. We have a detailed

2:19:34operations manual about how the the

2:19:37awarded agencies are expected to

2:19:38implement those. Um, and the contract

2:19:41language specifies compliance with that

2:19:43operations manual and allows for changes

2:19:46as needed if compliance is not um,

2:19:49possible. And I guess that was a hard

2:19:51conversation for us last time as a

2:19:53thing. It was hard to call on our

2:19:55neighboring partners who we trust with

2:19:57this work and say it's not enough. It's

2:19:59not fast enough. So I want to I just

2:20:01want to layer in some additional concern

2:20:03there and um, I hope that it goes better

2:20:06this time. Um,

2:20:08>> yeah. I [clears throat] I think also as

2:20:10I mentioned there is so much more

2:20:12support for this initiative than we

2:20:14typically see across the community. So

2:20:17having a a fully focused staff position

2:20:19to work with these organizations.

2:20:21>> We have tremendous support from the

2:20:22national partners. They're they really

2:20:24have been incredible, so collaborative.

2:20:26We have multiple meetings with them

2:20:27weekly. They're very involved in all 10

2:20:29communities uh to ensure success on the

2:20:32ground. Um, just as an aside too, since

2:20:34I see HMIS on there, um, we don't have

2:20:37full compatibility across all partners

2:20:39with HMIS, do we? We still have some

2:20:41committee partners that don't

2:20:43>> participating in HMIS is a requirement

2:20:46for the participating organizations.

2:20:49That's right. Um, but across part in

2:20:51partners across the community, we are

2:20:53continually increasing HMIS

2:20:55participation. We are currently um one

2:20:59of our primary partners that's not

2:21:01participated in HMIS in the past has

2:21:03been their rescue mission and we are

2:21:04currently working with them on uh

2:21:07integrating data from their database

2:21:08into the

2:21:09>> HMI. That is a long time coming. We

2:21:11talked about that for like 10 years.

2:21:12Okay, that is wonderful. That's why I

2:21:14brought it up. I also know that there

2:21:15are a couple media in the room and I'm

2:21:17hoping that they when they speak to

2:21:18their articles talk about HIS a little

2:21:20bit. I've seen a lot of misinformation

2:21:22in the community recently around

2:21:24databases, tracking information,

2:21:26individual, how are we processing

2:21:28people? Is there an entry program? And I

2:21:30was just astounded, you know, I know

2:21:32we're up here and we talk about it a

2:21:33lot, but I was astounded at the lack of

2:21:35awareness. So, those of you over here

2:21:37that are, if you could please mention

2:21:39HMIS a little bit, that'd be helpful.

2:21:42>> I'm so happy to see ABCCM as a partner.

2:21:45Yes, they are a huge asset. uh

2:21:49disappointed to not see Elyn uh on here.

2:21:53Uh they are have been a great city

2:21:55partner uh as well. But um I move to

2:22:00adopt a resolution authorizing the city

2:22:02manager to accept funding from

2:22:04destination home for the right at home

2:22:07initiative in the amount of 6 million

2:22:09and approval of an associated budget

2:22:11amendment.

2:22:12>> I'll second. Thank you.

2:22:14>> Okay.

2:22:15>> Okay. We have a motion and a second. Any

2:22:17other questions for Emily? Just anything

2:22:19else?

2:22:20Okay. Um,

2:22:22>> I would love followup. I heard

2:22:24Councilwoman Smith speak to that

2:22:25earlier. I'd love to hear more about how

2:22:27treatment first is going to roll out in

2:22:28this new shift.

2:22:30>> Emily, we want you at every meeting.

2:22:32>> Even though you have all the way home to

2:22:34[clears throat]

2:22:34>> I told you I know.

2:22:37>> You know, I'm glad you know, too. She's

2:22:39wonderful.

2:22:40>> Um, I'm also curious about that. I hear

2:22:43like whispers of key partners of ours

2:22:46losing resources. So, if the COC has

2:22:49recently had some type of

2:22:52landscape update or just some bullets on

2:22:54like

2:22:55>> part of the part of the really important

2:22:57thing of the COC is we're doing this in

2:23:00partnership in community and it's not

2:23:02just one agency but I know there's

2:23:04ripples impacting and so me under us all

2:23:08understanding who's getting impacted the

2:23:10most what resources are waning that type

2:23:13of bird's eye view of the whole system

2:23:16could be helpful. I don't want to like

2:23:18cause some research project for folks

2:23:20but um that type of discussion would be

2:23:22helpful to understand how tight it is.

2:23:25>> Absolutely. Um that that is exactly what

2:23:28we're working on mapping right now with

2:23:29providers. You know the the COC itself

2:23:32is available to funders to coordinate

2:23:35funding through for I would say highest

2:23:38impact and and most strategic

2:23:40investments. Um, and the COC otherwise

2:23:43doesn't have its own funding. And so we

2:23:45need we need fun partnership to route

2:23:47dollars through that for that collective

2:23:48impact at the community level. And I say

2:23:51that to say we don't otherwise have

2:23:52visibility into all funding happening

2:23:55across the community for services right

2:23:58now. And therefore, we're working with

2:23:59providers to have a clearer picture of

2:24:01that so that we can have that

2:24:02information.

2:24:03>> What I hope we'll be able to share is,

2:24:06you know, what are we spending annually

2:24:07as a community? How does that flow? what

2:24:11you know what are we spending on

2:24:12emergency shelter for example at the

2:24:15community level and how many people does

2:24:16that result in serving um so we are

2:24:18headed in that direction happy to

2:24:20present that to you all once we have it

2:24:21available

2:24:23>> thank you thank you for all you do

2:24:25>> and I know that there's some community

2:24:26leaders who work on this in the audience

2:24:28thank you for being here thanks for

2:24:30enduring this continue to do the good

2:24:31work

2:24:33>> thank you all right we have a motion and

2:24:35a second all those in favor please say I

2:24:38any opposed

2:24:39>> all right Okay, thank you. We have now

2:24:42reached the end of our agenda where we

2:24:44have general public comment. We have a a

2:24:46couple people signed up to speak again.

2:24:49You'll have three minutes to speak.

2:24:50Watch the lights on the lect turn. Um

2:24:52the first person signed up to speak is

2:24:54Doug Curtis and the presentation has

2:24:57been loaded. Thank you. I'm also here

2:25:00with Luke Pollson who's the head of the

2:25:02Asheville Running Collective and Greg

2:25:04Duff who's the owner of Glory Hound

2:25:06Events. Both of these event both of

2:25:09these men uh conduct running events here

2:25:11in Asheville. And we're here to address

2:25:13an immediate public safety concern

2:25:15involving the connection between the

2:25:17Lyman Street bike path, the Amboy

2:25:19Bridge, and the Amboy Road bike path,

2:25:22which is what you see here. Hundreds of

2:25:23runners, walkers, and cyclists use this

2:25:25area every day. And I'm concerned about

2:25:28this crossing of the Amboy Bridge and

2:25:30the current and their currently use of

2:25:31the path along Amboy Road.

2:25:34I've been corresponding with represent

2:25:36representatives from MC DOT, Asheville

2:25:38parks and wreck and the governor's

2:25:40highway safety program. I understand

2:25:42that a permanent connector is being

2:25:44planned to repair the section damaged by

2:25:46Hurricane Helen. However, I've been told

2:25:49that the construction will not begin for

2:25:51several years and an interim uh solution

2:25:54is not scheduled until next spring.

2:25:56>> And this really can't wait till next

2:25:58spring. We've been with people using

2:26:01this route every day, the risk becomes

2:26:02even more concerning with daylight

2:26:04savings approaching. Many of my running

2:26:06friends comment that this is a situation

2:26:08of a matter of when, not if an

2:26:10accident's going to happen.

2:26:11Unfortunately, I've had I have firsthand

2:26:13serious firsthand knowledge of friends

2:26:16who one who was killed running across a

2:26:19road and another who was seriously

2:26:20injured. Um, another slide here.

2:26:25Um, the governor's highway safety

2:26:27program has highlighted pedestrians and

2:26:29bicyclists face what they face across

2:26:32North Carolina. There were over 3,000

2:26:34pedestrian accidents last year. And this

2:26:37is also a Asheville issue and we share

2:26:39responsibility for this. There are

2:26:42practical steps that can be taken now to

2:26:45solve some of the situation.

2:26:48Uh, the governor safety program sent me

2:26:50this slide as an example of what can be

2:26:52done. I'm asking the city council to

2:26:54take immediate action to identify and

2:26:56implement interim safety measures to

2:26:58Amboy Bridge and along the affected

2:26:59trail connection. I have some experience

2:27:02in what can happen when I when

2:27:04communities work together. Um I directed

2:27:06three major events in Detroit and this

2:27:08weekend I'm going to be at the Free

2:27:10Press Marathon where over 30,000 people

2:27:12are competing and I'm part of that and

2:27:14they're going to generate significant

2:27:17economic benefit to the community. Um, I

2:27:20worked with Homeland Security and they

2:27:21taught me that if you don't if you see

2:27:23something, you say something. That

2:27:25experience taught me that investing in

2:27:27safe connections can create bigger

2:27:29opportunities. I believe Asheville can

2:27:32do the same with the Riverwalk. I'm

2:27:34making it safer for residents while

2:27:36strengthening outdoor tourism and events

2:27:38that bring visitors and dollars to

2:27:39Asheville. Luke and Greg can attest to

2:27:42this. Runners come from all over the

2:27:44country for their events. My wife and I

2:27:46are personally involved in um in Ash in

2:27:50Asheville and we volunteer and

2:27:51contribute to many local nonprofits and

2:27:54I'm willing to work with the city and

2:27:56others to help an immediate practical

2:27:58solution. I'm asking you to protect the

2:28:00people who use this trail system by

2:28:02taking action now, not months and years

2:28:04from now. Thank you.

2:28:07>> Thank you.

2:28:09Could

2:28:12we get a followup on what this I

2:28:13remember seeing that there's a solution

2:28:15coming. Could we understand what it is

2:28:17and and the timeline that's taking us

2:28:19between now and then? Thank you.

2:28:23>> I was just asking our staff for No, I

2:28:25was just asking our staff for that

2:28:27information so that we can get updated

2:28:28on um that. Thank you. Sorry.

2:28:32Um, Janice Roen.

2:28:41>> Good evening, Mayor,

2:28:43City Council,

2:28:46um, and City Manager Wesley. All right,

2:28:49I'm changing to subjects now. Okay. With

2:28:53the new Bunkham County emergency rule

2:28:55prohibiting intentional and passing

2:28:57feeding of black bears, we have an

2:29:00opportunity to take an important step in

2:29:02Asheville.

2:29:03But there is a contradiction we need to

2:29:05recognize. The city of Asheville weaves

2:29:08throughout our Bunkham County non- city

2:29:11residences and land area. People can

2:29:13hunt their land and attract bears with

2:29:16bait in Bunkham County if they meet

2:29:18these requirements. NC Wildlife says

2:29:21feeding bears can cause them to

2:29:23associate people in homes with food.

2:29:25Yet, the new rule specifically preserves

2:29:28the use of legal bait on processed plant

2:29:31food to attract bears for hunting in

2:29:34Bunkham County. But the bear doesn't

2:29:37know the difference, and the bear

2:29:38doesn't know where the city limits are.

2:29:41How does a bear distinguish between food

2:29:43intentionally placed by a licensed

2:29:45hunter and food intentionally placed by

2:29:48someone else? It can't. It simply learns

2:29:52people in places where people live can

2:29:54mean food.

2:29:56That's why Asheville has an important

2:29:58role to play. Please help us ban bear

2:30:01baiting in Bunkham County. It totally

2:30:04contradicts with this new rule and what

2:30:07it's trying to do. We also need clear,

2:30:09highly visible bear wise signage

2:30:11throughout Asheville where people and

2:30:13bears cross paths. When visitors arrive

2:30:16in Asheville, they should immediately

2:30:18understand this is bear country and we

2:30:21protect our bears. But education alone

2:30:24isn't enough. In our highest human bear

2:30:27conflict areas, Asheville should require

2:30:30beer resistant trash containers. We

2:30:33cannot tell people not to feed bears

2:30:35while leaving garbage accessible along

2:30:38our streets. To the bare accessible

2:30:40garbage is still food. NC Wildlife

2:30:44already points to Highlands, North

2:30:46Carolina as a bear wise model. Along

2:30:49with signage, Highlands adopted an

2:30:51ordinance requiring bearer resistant

2:30:54carts and replace downtown receptacles

2:30:56with bearer resistant ones. Please help

2:31:00us combine this new rule with education,

2:31:04signage, proper waste management, and

2:31:07mandatory bearer resistant containers in

2:31:09our highest conflict areas. Changing

2:31:12human behavior before bears pay the

2:31:15price. Please help us ban legal bear

2:31:19baiting in Bunkham County. Hunting

2:31:22equals guns. This is a major safety risk

2:31:25and it has to be part of the equation.

2:31:29Thank you. Thank you.

2:31:32Is there any way to get this put on the

2:31:34agenda at sometime? You know, the the

2:31:36trash at least the trash receptacles.

2:31:40Mayor, I've actually asked to bring this

2:31:41to public safety. Yeah. So, we

2:31:43>> So, that's one of the subcommittees of

2:31:45council and they'll discuss it there.

2:31:47>> Okay. All right. Thank you.

2:31:48>> Thank you.

2:31:49>> I I actually at Memorial Stadium, uh

2:31:52there's Bears almost every single time I

2:31:54go there. And there is no signage, no

2:31:58awareness about the Bears at all. They

2:32:01just they recently just put a um you

2:32:04know like a campaign type style sign

2:32:07like staked it in the grass and said let

2:32:09wildlife be wildlife. But I mean for all

2:32:11the money that we're spending on parks

2:32:14and recreation I think we could probably

2:32:16get some better bear signs.

2:32:18>> I'll add to this too that um Bunkham

2:32:20County had the bear wise coordinator

2:32:22from I guess the state come and present

2:32:23to them and I'm meeting with her

2:32:25sometime soon. So if anyone wants to sit

2:32:27and do that with me, you're welcome to

2:32:28join me.

2:32:29>> Awesome.

2:32:30I have had the pleasure of doing that

2:32:33and it's very worthwhile. We did it

2:32:34prior to amending our ordinance to make

2:32:37it more restrictive around feeding bears

2:32:40uh which is which is what we did. So, um

2:32:44>> it is almost budget season for staff.

2:32:46It's not for us, but I'm thinking bears

2:32:49are going to

2:32:49>> we can do we can go discussions. There's

2:32:53gonna be all

2:32:54>> I'm not really sure what that we need to

2:32:56tell people there's bears here. It seems

2:32:58like it's pretty well known, but I, you

2:33:00know, appreciate a sign.

2:33:01>> But we did have a staff memo and the

2:33:03follow-up documents a few weeks back

2:33:04about where we're at on the updates on

2:33:06the bare carts, and I appreciate that. I

2:33:08understand there's a backlog, but we

2:33:10also um cut that budget. So, it's on us.

2:33:14>> It's a little unclear to me at this

2:33:16point if it's a budget issue or a

2:33:17manufacturing issue because

2:33:19>> a little of both, too, right? Because

2:33:21they're expensive. We require the

2:33:22homeowner to pay something for them. We

2:33:24never had enough. They don't pay for the

2:33:26can, they pay the an increased monthly

2:33:28fee for the

2:33:28>> But we've never, to my knowledge, I

2:33:30don't think we've ever had enough for

2:33:31the orders on hand.

2:33:32>> This will be really cool at public

2:33:33safety.

2:33:34>> Yeah, we can't talk all about trash cans

2:33:36because

2:33:36>> we're having a whole discussion.

2:33:38>> Yeah, I [laughter] think

2:33:39>> our hearts open.

2:33:41>> We saw the wait list. It's 400 and

2:33:42something folks. Okay. Uh, the last

2:33:45speaker tonight is Rachel Cohen.

2:33:47>> Oh, sorry, Rachel. I thought we were

2:33:48done. You're just wandering off.

2:33:53>> Uh I think yeah, the other way.

2:34:00[snorts]

2:34:09>> All right. Good evening. As you know, my

2:34:11name is Rachel and today I want to talk

2:34:14to you about what meaningful oversight

2:34:17and accountability of surveillance is,

2:34:20or in this case, what it is not.

2:34:23We've been told that there are

2:34:25safeguards in place for the use of ALPRs

2:34:28and other surveillance technologies,

2:34:31that we own the data, that it is shared

2:34:33with only a limited number of other

2:34:36agencies who abide by our safeguards,

2:34:38and that we audit how it is used to

2:34:41ensure our rights are protected. So,

2:34:44what you see on the screen is the

2:34:46so-called audit of ALPR usage in Q2 of

2:34:50this year.

2:34:52The portion that's the audit

2:34:54is five sentences.

2:34:57In those five sentences, it says that

2:35:00over 2.7 million searches of our network

2:35:04were done by outside agencies from only

2:35:07April to June of this year. The only

2:35:11information we know about these searches

2:35:14is that a reason was given.

2:35:19So, so much for limited data sharing.

2:35:21That's 2.7 billion searches. I would not

2:35:23call that limited and I would dare

2:35:25anyone to call that limited.

2:35:27Who conducted [clears throat] these

2:35:29searches? We have no idea.

2:35:32The information was not captured in the

2:35:34audit and staff says they don't have it

2:35:37and can't provide it.

2:35:39Reasons may have been given, but were

2:35:42they good reasons? Did they meet some

2:35:44kind of minimum standard or is literally

2:35:48any reason good enough to grant an

2:35:50agency access to our data? You might

2:35:54think that's a silly thing to question,

2:35:55but across the country, officers have

2:35:58entered reasons such as LOL, I don't

2:36:01know, haha, and TBD in the reason field

2:36:07for APL a [snorts] LPR searches.

2:36:12And what happens with this info once

2:36:15these outside agencies

2:36:17do the searches from this audit? We have

2:36:20no way of knowing that.

2:36:23So I ask each one of you based on this

2:36:28information, these five sentences, can

2:36:30you guarantee that there was a valid

2:36:33reason for every single one of these

2:36:35searches?

2:36:37Are you 100% confident that none of

2:36:40these unidentified external agencies use

2:36:43this information to racially profile

2:36:46Asheville residents

2:36:49to search or for or penalize immigrants

2:36:53who are undocumented to track someone

2:36:56traveling for an abortion? Can you

2:36:58really guarantee that based on this

2:37:00information?

2:37:02We have very little information about

2:37:04APD usage as well. So, I would just

2:37:07encourage all of us to do more when it

2:37:10comes to auditing these systems because

2:37:13we all deserve better accountability.

2:37:15Thank you.

2:37:15>> Thank you.

2:37:22>> Okay, that concludes our um public

2:37:25comment agenda. So, with that we are

2:37:28journed.