2026-10-07 - Housing & Redevelopment Authority
Summary
Captions are manually created by the city but rough in places; names and figures may be wrong. Five commissioners were present.
- Minutes of the September meeting were approved 5-0.
- Staff presented the 2027 low-income housing tax credit reservation (staff report 26-211), covering the program, scoring criteria and prior-year commitments; no vote, back October 14 (2027 Low-Income Housing Tax Credits Resolution (RES 26-1708)).
- Afton View Apartments (staff report 26-212): an acquisition and rehabilitation of 286 existing units, 268 of them project-based voucher units at 30 to 50 percent of area median income, using up to $20.5 million in conduit revenue bonds. The developer asked for a developer fee of $3.6 million against an allowable $2.4 million, partly deferred, and a partial sustainable building ordinance waiver. Commissioners questioned putting more into rehabilitation and asked about outreach to East African residents; the developer cited translated notices and a planned town hall. The public hearing and waiver return October 14 (Afton View Apartments Conduit Revenue Bonds (PH 26-290), Afton View Apartments Sustainable Building Ordinance Waiver (RES 26-1709)).
- TIF District Decertification for Pay 2027 (staff report 26-213): staff proposed releasing tax capacity by decertifying two districts early (one two years early, at the end of this year) and amending plans of others; estimated effect about $10 less tax on a median-value home. Commissioners weighed this against future affordable housing funding, with combined TIF affordable-housing balances just under $14 million. Board actions are expected November 18.
- A Parks and Recreation funds transfer presentation was laid over to October 14 for time. The meeting adjourned.
Sources
Video
Transcript
These are manually created captions from the city's video; names and numbers may still contain errors.
Transcript
07:47Maker here. Chair Care.
07:52>> There are 5 present 2 AB
07:57son and heir excuse,
07:58commissioners, Kim and Yang
07:59and
08:00>> Commissioner Yang will not
08:00be participating remotely.
08:04Item number My and 26 dash. 31
08:08approval of the September
08:082026, a jury meeting minutes.
08:13All right. trust that everyone
08:14has had a chance or view the
08:15meeting. Minutes from our last
08:16meeting take a motion from
08:18Commissioner to approve all
08:19those in favor. all opposed.
08:22>> 5 favors or opposes. The
08:23minutes are adopted item.
08:26Number 2, a staff report SR 26
08:27dash, 2, 1, 1, 2027, low
08:32income Housing Tax Credit
08:33Reservation presentation. All
08:36right. We get to have a
08:37presentation by R a incredible
08:42leader director and talking
08:43thank you for being here
08:44today.
08:47>> Jay Johnson, I'm sure money
08:49on the the housing director
08:53deep and yet presented any
08:54consent 9% low income housing
08:55credit program is mission. The
09:01program whether it's on ball.
09:03The last 2, 2 from the finest
09:04fought to my nature program
09:05for projects and simple on
09:08program was created by the
09:09field. fall off 1986. 4 bytes.
09:15in for that's that you can do
09:17on a Sunday best qualified
09:17low-income all to get it all
09:20it's going die with it. I
09:22didn't think on this fictions.
09:27Protected location for 2027.
09:29Is 1 Million 78 thousand 9.
09:33stuff it. If he.
09:37>> For these put it on June
09:4211, 2026 deadline for
09:44submissions of July 20 2026.
09:48received 2 occasions, one from
09:49guy in project from becoming
09:51deaf, plan, a high tide and
09:55beats face chief from Pps.
09:58>> The other gun is safe.
10:02That's he 50 tu. They
10:03construction project.
10:04>> proposal from the Locations
10:11falso into what and to do
10:13project of open cost.
10:1428 million, 292,004 and in to
10:175 This also includes a the
10:23quest false. If got plans
10:23dumped in the amount
10:251 million, $250,000 U.S.. The
10:31Headline Beach because project
10:32it's a proposal from ppl. So
10:35say new construction. The 59
10:36units. Occasions that bull on
10:38street avenue we fate take
10:41that to DCF. We'll Continued
10:44and a it to dog up front I
10:48think from the city.
10:54>> let's talk about the sport.
10:55Even with these walks. He said
10:58He
10:58>> there gets us going all.
11:03that defined by the quite if
11:04don't play publication lawn.
11:07That's a big beacons. And
11:08then. Udall's all.
11:12>> All sheets.
11:18>> Again, to say call starting
11:19on eat it.
11:21>> lot of them and do 99
11:28points. West, 50 Project total
11:3080 points.
11:30>> But that doing looking at
11:36>> That's see the 5 billion
11:38want we just have communities
11:41with uncommitted. way off. You
11:42can them up to 9 points. 8
11:47points. How we have to do we
11:47stuff. Give them 7 points
11:51because top who then lost all
11:57justify all that way. Getting
12:01and then to the fall home all
12:02home. And that's
12:08>> Again, the issue came I
12:11feel, that's
12:11>> He there. Which is a for it
12:17apart because a Chinese.
12:17That's the 2 deadly condition.
12:23Be can play for them. 5
12:24points. which I think would
12:25think within justified?
12:26Because as far a we know
12:30>> Disappointingly dedication
12:30of these projects we did by
12:34the HRA.
12:40>> So
12:41>> the K 9, one point. if you
12:42remove the 6 points, that's 92
12:48>> For the head injuries she
12:51is. She you didn't pay me to 5
12:56points. But the issue when
12:56doing all occasion, the issue
13:00came on.
13:00>> At the it's up a which is
13:02the projects that can it at a
13:07>> pps claimed that longest
13:08one byte HIV, which the Quincy
13:09parts.
13:15>> So 85 5 points that gave
13:20points.
13:20>> Based on these to stop the
13:22commission's the approval of
13:23that is in addition 21 7.
13:29>> I for the project look at
13:29that, that's into why I Again,
13:32this is 50 se you. Then you
13:39Russian family housing,
13:40including bedroom units up to
13:41fall. All.
13:44>> Bedroom. It's also think
13:45that supportive housing units
13:46for people disability and
13:49seeing that. I don't get 25
13:52units that would for the book
13:56tool in conflict. And I
13:57thought it was. am I?
13:59>> And the demand of the units
14:00will be with the tenants all
14:02below 60%. Am I? that's in to
14:11government's estimated to be
14:12going do everything can to
14:16that. All include the Mini
14:17mall. A small gauge of
14:1842 Million. Once all the best
14:20students are more kids. That
14:28could it pretty the 20 million
14:29dollars from the HIV.
14:35>> also also means of the
14:39Diane's it Don all safe. And
14:41deference to Joe Sam fall in
14:41the amount 1 million $250,000
14:42U.S.. Happy wants any
14:47questions you may have.
14:54>> I see it. Commissioner
14:55maker, thanks, Madam Chair.
14:56Just to clarify, this is the
14:579% tax credits right?
15:00>> check on commission that
15:03that's correct.
15:04>> And then the scoring
15:05criteria I 3 talks about a
15:06prior 9 percentage to see
15:07commitments. And it looks like
15:11the Argonne got 1 for that.
15:13gotten UN. Does that mean we'd
15:14already pledged a different 9%
15:15housing tax credit to this
15:18project Johnson commissioned.
15:19They could. That's going last
15:19year. The HRA.
15:22>> He's the 2026 was another
15:25occasion for project. So the
15:26upcoming bout from all which
15:29we on I do this.
15:33>> For the 2, yes, for the
15:34recall that the formal
15:36request. So it's possible that
15:37the comeback next year for the
15:41For 2020, but that will be for
15:45a very minimal amount, maybe
15:46to maybe 20,000 block of
15:51>> So I can something. So just
15:52to clarify the sort of
15:54finishing what we sarted
15:55already initiated funding this
15:56project, Johnson commissioned
15:57the Thank you. As a follow-up
16:00that point that point, sir. So
16:01when we look at this, usually
16:02that's what also has the
16:04advantage for projects that
16:05come through. They received
16:06that point value. If we've
16:07invested in the pass. Joe
16:14Johnson Commission, as you
16:14find on the question, get
16:15talking about call yes, this
16:16is defined in the Q A P.
16:22>> Commissioner Johnson,
16:22thanks so much for this
16:23presentation. I I I just knd
16:27of try to refresh my memory. I
16:28do. Remember, we adopted the
16:29criteria some months ago for
16:33this.
16:34>> you know, my apologies. If
16:35you get kind of explain it.
16:36But I'm looking at the scoring
16:39card here.
16:39>> And for D for the criteria
16:43for equity and cots ruin
16:44Tucker integration up to 10
16:48points, Erica and their
16:49project at 10 while the
16:52Highland Ridge phase present
16:54that. Sarah, can you explain a
16:55little bit more of contacts? I
16:56can't really recall in terms
16:57of how are scoring or what
17:02justifies something, you know,
17:03being equity or classroom
17:03integration with looks like
17:04for a development project.
17:09>> Chad Johnson commissioned
17:11the Yes, the criteria we have
17:12the bye to wear way to come in
17:13buy ball to the finance.
17:17>> fastball that provided the
17:18final believe that last year.
17:23>> Those where discussed a mix
17:25think the EU. once open and
17:32each year, they're all the for
17:32them and decide to skip, call
17:35themselves.
17:36>> Cisco and then with fuel,
17:39I'm must become sub me the
17:41supporting documentation we've
17:42gone
17:45>> We don't points because we
17:46come from. where the but we
17:49may start for business
17:50bulletin document. I'm not And
17:54so can a question the yet.
17:57question was more so just
17:59around, like explaining how
18:01Highland Ridge that has 0 for
18:04further scoring is that is
18:06itself scoring process. It
18:08sounds like it's And so they
18:10just did not starts at 10.
18:13Johnson comes to the buoy for
18:14the Qaeda ISIS equity and get
18:15you into nation.
18:17>> You'll have to.
18:22>> The out of project they
18:23able to submit evidence that.
18:28They were able the questions
18:30big a section that support and
18:33supporting documentation. But
18:34the other it will u zeal for
18:37One to goals is conducted Want
18:39to commit to anything.
18:41>> Thank you so much.
18:41Appreciate That's a great I do
18:46recall that being a part of
18:49discussion during the time in
18:50which are that are going this
18:50cost last year as well. think
18:54that's really important to us,
18:55folks projects are responding,
18:56that they do the start at, you
19:01know, we can only buy what
19:02they score for themselves to
19:03And that supplemental
19:06documentation is needed app on
19:08the score so someone could
19:09let's attend. There's with is
19:10the role there. But they would
19:10have to provide justification
19:12for any point. Tell you that.
19:13Yes, I'm so that's good
19:15clarification if they're in
19:19the other questions as well
19:20from other commissioners.
19:23Otherwise, this item is set to
19:23come back and forth front of
19:24us on October 14th. So
19:28appreciate you, director and
19:28time now for this presentation
19:31and aso for what it's worth,
19:33their account is a project in
19:34Ward 7 I want to share that.
19:37think as we continue to
19:39prioritize projects at this
19:41level percentage level I it's
19:44really important to support
19:46affordable housing development
19:47in our city and so thick
19:48looking forward to seeing this
19:49come through. Item number 3,
19:55Stafford S are 26 dash, 2, 1,
19:572,
19:58>> Introduction to the after
19:58New Apartments.
20:00>> Speaking of affordable
20:01housing. And 7 after
20:04apartments is another
20:06apartment complex that I'm
20:07very very invested in its
20:11future. And coming up. Tie
20:18your lesson strong. Great.
20:19Yes, was to give us update on
20:19this as well.
20:23>> Thank you. Good afternoon,
20:24Chair Johnson commissioners.
20:25My name is Hannah Project
20:25manager in PD and I'm here to
20:28present a request on for
20:30issuance of multifamily
20:32conduit. for the afternoon
20:33view apartments. And as a
20:35reminder, this project was
20:36before the board in May where
20:39at that meeting, te board
20:41passed a preliminary approval
20:41of funds that allowed the
20:42opportunity to preserve the
20:46acquisition costs as part of
20:47fact, elgible eligible basis
20:47for the tax credits. But as
20:50brief overview after he was
20:53located a few different
20:54addresses, but primarily at 3,
20:556, 5 Windsor Street South in
20:57district. One Ward, 7. The
21:01developer is turning
21:02development partners and this
21:03is an acquisition we have of
21:04an existing building. This 286
21:08units and all of them will
21:10100% 60% of am I with 268 that
21:15are reserved for project based
21:16out So this isn't over aerial
21:22overview of the property. It's
21:23off of lower after road. It's
21:24surrounded by transit lines,
21:27rec center and an elementary
21:27school. So this project has
21:34raised close. so it really is
21:36here to request an issuance of
21:38up to 20 and a half million
21:39dollars of multifamily conduit
21:39revenue bonds. At additionally
21:43as part of the bond issuance.
21:44They're also requesting a
21:46waiver of trees, mximum fee
21:48guidelines for multi-unit
21:49rental housing. And a partial
21:52waiver of the city sustainable
21:53building ordinance. The
21:57developer Touring Development
21:58Partners is a twin cities
22:00based real estate firm and is
22:00founded in 2021. They
22:04developed market rate,
22:04affordable housing and
22:05commercial properties. And
22:07Pete Nelson, their vice
22:08president of development, is
22:09also with us today in case the
22:10board has any questions. The
22:16afternoon you apartments
22:17itself that it was built in
22:181971. and consists of 2
22:21buildings with 3 stories each
22:22and 143 units each. There's
22:27131,000 square feet. They're
22:28both 131,000 square feet, each
22:30and 393 surface parking
22:31spaces. So it's a big site.
22:37The commercial spaces include
22:39an onsite office space and
22:39onsite daycare facility and
22:41under previous ownership, the
22:45property has undergone some
22:47major in the last 10 years,
22:49including window replacement,
22:50water lines and most of the
22:50roof. Touring o Tdp acquired
22:55the site May of 2026. After
22:56that preliminary approval. So
23:00their terrain is proposing to
23:04acquire which they did and
23:05rehabilitate ater view using
23:09the 20.5 million dollars in
23:11bonds and the 4% task for the
23:13equity that comes with the
23:14bonds. If certain criteria are
23:15met, they plan o rehabbing
23:18the which includes us
23:23replacement chemical systems,
23:24such as the boilers and water
23:25heaters lighting replacements
23:28updates to common areas. The
23:30office space amenity spaces
23:31and they'll do in unit
23:31upgrades as well. The new
23:35financing will preserve 100%
23:36of the units at 60% of am I
23:37for at least 40 years. The
23:41project based vouchers that
23:42were already part of the
23:42property before the sale will
23:46be extended and until 2043.
23:49And that's terrain will have
23:52an opportunity to renew the
23:52project based vouchers with
23:53HUD. So the unit mix will not
23:59change with the sale. And
24:01there's a mix of 1, 2, and 3
24:03bedrooms for a total 286 units
24:05and 90 with 94% of them being
24:08project based Boucher units
24:09that have lower income
24:10requirements. As mentioned
24:15earlier, strongest. a question
24:17know. You're okay. Thank Just
24:18so going back to the slide.
24:20>> I just want to confirm
24:22because my first saw this, it
24:22looked like the entire
24:23building with 60% am I? But
24:24what you're saying is that?
24:28There's actually a significant
24:29number of units where voucher
24:31units are 30 to 50%. And I
24:32just want clarify that it's
24:34and commission maker. That's
24:35correct. And it's 268 of the
24:412.86 that are the 30 50%. yes,
24:44a commission. That's correct.
24:49So has mentioned here. The
24:51developers requesting a waiver
24:52to the injuries, maximum fee
24:55guidelines.
24:55>> Per our guidelines, the
24:57allowable fee is 2 point about
25:002.4 million and they are
25:01requesting to take a 3.6
25:02million dollar fee. And this
25:04is an order to maximize the
25:05eligible basis for tax credits
25:07and maximize the equity that
25:08can be generated. The
25:12developers also requesting a
25:13partial waiver to this
25:13sustainable building
25:15ordinance. The ordinance
25:17requires that projects
25:17receiving more than $200,000
25:19of city funding comply with
25:20Saint. Paul overlay. SP 2030,
25:24is one such requirement of the
25:27overlay that the developer is
25:28seeking the partial waiver
25:28for. So the center for
25:31sustainable building research
25:32or CSB are developed and
25:37managed that SB manages the S
25:39P 2030 for the state of
25:42Minnesota staff at CSB are
25:46evaluated. The project
25:46interest determined that
25:48applying that standard would
25:49be disruptive to current
25:50residents and require
25:51displacement. All the work is
25:52done. So they've come up with
25:582030, compliance that is less
26:00disruptive to residents, but
26:01will still include the
26:02installation of highly
26:02efficient equipment. This is
26:09strong we have another
26:10question from Councilmember.
26:11Sorry, Commissioner Coleman.
26:15>> It's so you say just a
26:16little bit more about without
26:17alternative path. Looks like
26:18and what but they'll be doing
26:21instead.
26:22>> so they will still
26:25implemented. Installing a
26:26center boiler with at 95% of H
26:31H r I certify combustion
26:32efficiency window units that
26:33are energy star certified
26:36ranges that ranges, hoods and
26:37dishwashers that are energy
26:38star certified the
26:42refrigerator freezer as well.
26:43Also be energy star certified
26:45and on efficient, more
26:47efficient showerheads and
26:49kitchen faucets and happy to
26:51follow up we have Dave
26:52Schroeder here. Who is our
26:53energy compliance. I know
26:58Commissioner home and has a
26:59follow-up now also have an
27:00additional question regarding
27:00Go ahead. Commissioner
27:03Coleman.
27:03>> Thank you. Yet this could
27:04only be fall, but he could be
27:05helpful to understand what
27:07they won't be doing. That
27:08would otherwise been required
27:10And again, sounds like there's
27:11a lot that they will still be
27:11doing it and if there
27:12alternatives that they're
27:13doing, and so the things that
27:14they will be ding, that would
27:14be helpful. Thanks. Chair
27:18Jones and Commissioner Coleman
27:19Date Road or help explain
27:22>> Welcome, Mister Children's
27:25commissioners.
27:26>> Part of the S P O is sort
27:28of that step process for sits
27:32energy efficiency than it is
27:33renewable energy on site and
27:35in portfolio. And then the 3rd
27:36to meet the S P 2030 would be
27:38Renewable energy credits. So
27:43credits renewable energy
27:44credits, we are using the
27:48funding to kind of pick
27:48directly in building. so the
27:53residents and tenants will see
27:54the benefits of higher
27:55efficiency equipment rather
27:57than buying those credits that
28:00are often times outside of
28:00Minnesota and not a benefit to
28:01the residence.
28:08>> Mr. Sugar. I wouldn't go
28:09too far. I think folks may
28:11have a couple more questions
28:12for Can you so? Right, but
28:16complying with the comply with
28:17the center of building
28:18ordinance isn't necessarily a.
28:22The thing. So if you talk a
28:23little bit of folic, the
28:23alternative piece to go into
28:25compliance and just what's the
28:27trade-off. So isn't just the
28:30credits themselves like, what
28:31is that? What is the
28:33difference between their
28:33alternative pathway for
28:34compliance versus was?
28:38>> Yes, commissioner check on
28:39some commissioners. The
28:44alternative compliance is
28:44focused solely on. Hi. Hi.
28:51High efficiency equipment.
28:52Energy star certified
28:53equipment that will be getting
28:57replaced. Whereas.
28:58>> in a general general
29:02project the S P o. There's a
29:06certain level cost benefit.
29:10That needs to be should have
29:14in order for project to be all
29:17measure to be within the S P
29:18o. way. We're looking
29:23requiring the developer to
29:24spend a little bit more money
29:25on that efficient equipment
29:28rather look to us.
29:32>> Commissioner maker, thank
29:34you, Madam Chair. That's
29:35actually not a question about
29:38the of a building ordinance.
29:38Thank backup thank you. I
29:43actually wanted to go back to
29:44the developer, developer fees.
29:45So
29:46>> see here that the the
29:49reason for the higher fee is
29:50because it maximizes the
29:52eligible basis for tax
29:52credits. Can you say? More
29:55about that? And I guess I'm
29:56wondering if the if the total
29:59cost of the project just has
30:00to be higher in order to be
30:01able to maximize the tax
30:02credits. Could more money
30:06going to the project itself
30:07rather than going to the
30:09developer?
30:11>> Sure,
30:12>> So the eligible basis.
30:15>> To get the tax credit
30:17equity, the formula is
30:18qualified basis times 4%.
30:19>> So if you have a higher
30:21basis which the developer fee
30:25counts us higher base counts.
30:26As for that basis, you get a
30:27higher higher tax credit
30:32equity out and I did the math
30:38and I we the city would have
30:40to put in money or well, there
30:43would be a cap gaps about
30:46$100,000 to feel if we kept
30:47everything else. The same and
30:53decrease developer fee to
30:53what's allowable. I guess I'm
30:57just wondering, are there
31:00other costs of the project
31:01that could be?
31:02>> It is essentially the issue
31:05to your point that there's a
31:06percentage of the total cost
31:08eligible costs that determine
31:09the tax credit amount. They
31:13want more tax credits. So
31:15they're driving up the cost of
31:15the project. But the way that
31:16they're doing that is by.
31:18Taking over a million and a
31:19half. 1.3 million more than we
31:23normally allow their feet. I'm
31:26just wondering if there's a
31:26way to. That 1.3 into other
31:31parts of the project rather
31:32than taking it themselves.
31:36Increase the amount of tax
31:37credits other parts elements
31:40of the basis that could also
31:41increase the amount of tax
31:41credits.
31:46>> To Johnson commissioner I
31:47guess you increase the tax
31:49credit basis. You'd have to
31:49increase their rehabilitation.
31:54what? Yeah. So it would have
31:54to construction costs could
31:58perhaps increase.
31:58>> Or thanks off. Costs are
31:59part of the eligible basis.
32:03>> so not sure if I'm
32:03answering questions.
32:07>> So I guess just because I
32:09think, Anderson, as well like
32:09the question, which is, if
32:12enough that so kind of what
32:13you're sharing its like. Right
32:17now, be talking driving the
32:18cost of for the actual fee for
32:22the But we are talking about
32:23if there is another way to
32:24increase costs from
32:25construction or rehabilitation
32:28that residents better and
32:28after apartments would benefit
32:31from directly. Is that an
32:33option that was explored when
32:35it came down to? How are we
32:36going to make this a more
32:39expensive project?
32:40>> to just the commission,
32:41will defer to you. Mr. And
32:43talking to.
32:47>> Joe Johnson Commission us
32:48up to develop St spot of 2.
32:52>> Basis right?
32:52>> So if you
32:57>> That's the name couple of
33:01developing. He Biden could
33:01school school to incrase
33:04construction costs like John
33:04that that the Jabal for te
33:06bases that will. Also box. The
33:11cost, if eventually. So. By
33:16Justin Cruz defeat because we
33:17have something CDC, some facts
33:17of year.
33:24>> We just increasing the
33:25bases there for opportune
33:25moment. Tax credits for the
33:26project.
33:28>> If you change all the
33:29things related to development,
33:30the scope will. I think that
33:35all saying she because the
33:36costly case.
33:38>> So both will go up.
33:43>> saying, like if you
33:44increase the cost, the project
33:45the developer fee will also
33:46full.
33:49>> Increase. But
33:50>> good because this on
33:55>> OK, so my follow-up
33:56question for you might be Ben
33:58Wedeman. We increase the full
34:00is there more money they can
34:01go into rehabilitation even if
34:02that fee would increase and
34:03they would just increase
34:04together. Residents ocean us.
34:06Yes, we can.
34:10>> Incrase the development
34:12duty of addition cost how we
34:13have all sink rate increase.
34:15>> Does okay? Commissioner?
34:20>> Because of cost increase
34:23because
34:24>> Because the fee is a
34:25percentage be allowed defer
34:27developer fees as a percentage
34:27of the cost. That's total
34:28project. Commissioner Thank
34:35you. Just trying to
34:35understand.
34:37>> This Is there with But the
34:44difference like to it t
34:45increase the cost of the which
34:49would also icrease to develop
34:51their feet a bit. But less
34:51than the one point. 3, the
34:55million above the allowable
34:56fee that's recommended like
35:01$700,000 above the level I'm
35:01sure the call mine.
35:06>> To increase this can be
35:08gentle, closed due to the
35:09scope of to walk, right? So we
35:09just change because you want
35:11change We need to justify.
35:14>> Difficult. We need to
35:15justify why they want change
35:15that.
35:18>> The way to understand these
35:19in the past week we develop a
35:25gap. kind got this going to
35:26see that HIV, subsidy to the
35:30project past projects.
35:35>> I think what you're hearing
35:36yes, we understand that. And
35:39and I will just add my $0.2
35:42this building structure in my
35:43ward. I frequented a lot. I
35:44don't doubt that they could
35:47get extra dollars in the
35:48rehabilitation line And so we
35:49were creating a nature, a
35:51subsidy wine.
35:52>> Would we be able to in turn
35:55create that subsidy for
35:56rehabilitation increases
35:58knowing that the development
35:59fee, what simultaneously
36:01splitting the difference from
36:02the amount that we're trying
36:03to solve for here.
36:05>> Nice or and I see your it's
36:08going to.
36:08>> And just as as our incomes
36:09of one other, it. Thanks.
36:09Hatches. Chair commissioners.
36:14Increasing the overall scope
36:16and the development costs also
36:16increases the cap. So become
36:19cyclical and that sense. As
36:23well in terms of meeting
36:24additional cap is the fee
36:25amount. That's this jumping to
36:34>> Chair commissioners
36:35essentially this additional
36:35fee acts as a source. So the
36:38project, as is without this
36:38additional fee has again.
36:42>> So sort of feature coming
36:42to the table with CAS. gets
36:46filled by the fee. It's
36:48probably deferred a good
36:49portion of 68% of the fee is
36:51deferred. And so it acts as a
36:52source to fill the gap. That's
36:53there. And so that's kind of
36:57why play with that number a
36:58little bit. And it's exactly
37:00as director McMahon was
37:01saying, it's like once you
37:02start increasing cost of the
37:04project are increasing
37:05everything overall. You're not
37:06really ding yourself any
37:06favors in terms of the So this
37:08actually acts as a source.
37:11>> councilmember a bully and
37:12then commissioner, thank you,
37:18Chair Johnson, thank you so
37:19much. I'm also to around the
37:22developer fee just provide
37:23some contacts are Clarify,
37:24clarifying question. I
37:26remember like Ramsey County,
37:28they have emerging developers
37:29place that we're familiar
37:33with, I believe Ramsey County
37:35has like a policy around their
37:36developers feel like I believe
37:37it has to be like up t like
37:403% are white. It's like one to
37:423%. The same pod as a jury has
37:42that type of policy cause. I
37:45think kind of getting at right
37:46now is like trying to do the
37:48math around. You know, how do
37:50we justify the developers fee
37:52on top of like the overall
37:53scope of it? But you can just
37:55clarify, do we? know what it's
37:58like. The average percentage
38:01developers feet because I
38:03think that clarification
38:05around that amount. Chair
38:06Johnson Commissioner Bowie.
38:08>> So the fee is there's a
38:10formula. It is 15% of the
38:12total development cost minus
38:13acquisition. Minus reserves
38:17and minus construction
38:18consultant. So. With all of
38:23you can see that the
38:24acquisition is 27 million
38:25dollars. So it took away quite
38:28Portion of the total
38:29development cost. So its 15%
38:32of 48 million minus that
38:3327 Million.
38:40>> Commissioner, thank you,
38:41Madam Chair and thanks,
38:42everyone for falling down
38:43rabbit with me a little bit. I
38:45just want to sure. I
38:45understand. So. Because I come
38:49back to to the questions that
38:51others are asking. I think
38:52that when my interest here is
38:52in figuring out. How the
38:55people living in this
38:56development can see more of
38:57the benefit as a way of
38:59increasing the total cost. And
39:00hearing you say this is the
39:03easiest way and maybe it's
39:04just an accounting mechanism.
39:08But I'm trying understand,
39:08does this mean that the
39:09developer's going to take
39:11home? 3.6 million dollars
39:12versus 2 point million
39:16dollars. They will be getting
39:17this additional money. When we
39:17say the trade gap to the
39:19project, we're putting money
39:20in that the developer will
39:21get. Committee chair Johnson.
39:25>> Commissioner maker, that's
39:26what it means. The deferred
39:29they are differing 68% of
39:31that, which means they're not
39:32getting it all at once.
39:33They'll get over a period of
39:3715 years as determined by the
39:38Equity tax, credit equity
39:40investor. So it still seems to
39:42me like it would be a better
39:42too. Increase the cost of the
39:45project in another way.
39:47>> See
39:51>> I'm sure there and make it
39:54you can the money back into
39:55the project and they would get
39:56it still over 15 years. So
40:00it's either that, oh, this
40:00league of that, we need the
40:02phone to mke these projects
40:03feasible.
40:13>> All right. I do. And I
40:14think that that would be more
40:16helpful to it. I know you've
40:18had your timeline pieces and I
40:19just want time. Check for it.
40:20you just read, if you review
40:23the timeline slide and then
40:24also the steps. commissioner
40:31us.
40:32>> The site was acquired in
40:34May 2026. The anticipate
40:37closing is beginning of
40:37November 2026. And that's when
40:38construction will start. And
40:41we have Billet. Asian
40:42completion is estimated for
40:43July 2027. And as far as next
40:46steps, a public hearing and
40:48request for the issuance will
40:49come before the board next
40:52week. October 14th, as well as
40:53the waiver requests.
40:57>> I know that we have we have
41:01a little bit of time. So I'm
41:02just kind of going through I
41:04actually don't want miss the
41:06opportunity to bring up to BP,
41:07to talk about this building I
41:11have a couple questions for
41:12the developer on the project,
41:14including with the timeline
41:14that is proposing out of the
41:15acquisition has been
41:16completed. What sort of
41:18community engagement have you
41:19been doing this building?
41:20Because as I shared during our
41:23conversation, building is I
41:25would argue probably 90%
41:27Somali East African and I do
41:28not recall asingle person or
41:30team that's books. I'm always.
41:30So what is your community
41:32engagement strategy right now,
41:34especially when we're
41:36discussing construction and
41:39potential impact to residents,
41:39how where they about that.
41:44Good afternoon chair yellow
41:47colors.
41:47>> We do have a communication
41:49plan in place. So when we took
41:51over the property in May of
41:522026, we hired sell
41:54management. A 3rd party manage
41:58property and they put they put
42:00a cmmunications plan together
42:00or they hired start. They
42:05hired a third-party
42:05translation service where
42:07there's any language barrier,
42:08they could just call somebody
42:12and have a translator on the
42:13line working with the 10 and
42:14the property manager. And so
42:17that's been going very well. I
42:18feel like I've heard a lot of
42:19positive reviews from
42:22attendance. All are notices
42:23are translate into Somali and
42:26I I believe are the residents
42:29been very, very with sale thus
42:29far. I hope that answers your
42:35question. I did send you
42:37communications plan. don't
42:38know if you had a chance to
42:38look at it yet, but I could
42:39follow up with that after this
42:41meeting.
42:42>> Yeah. And could you share
42:43more a little bit aain about
42:44how where residents are the
42:45current timeline being that
42:46would be cming at with your
42:47construction starting next
42:49month.
42:50>> That that was actually
42:51something today. I was
42:52discussing my with my boss
42:55this morning. You know, given
42:56that this is a very important
42:57meeting about the project, you
42:58know, don't know for actually
43:00going to closing in the first
43:01week in November. Not based
43:04office meeting and that the
43:05vote for on October 14th. We
43:08do have a plan in place. It's
43:10and have town hall meeting
43:12probably in the rec room that
43:13in in the day care facility.
43:16>> And also post translated
43:17notices out to every every
43:19units doorstep.
43:24>> Other than that, I mean,
43:25that's pretty much what I do
43:26in my my acquisition. We have
43:28projects that there's
43:29something else that you'd like
43:30to recommend that ICU. And I'm
43:30more than willing to. To do
43:31that as well.
43:36>> And then just for timing
43:38purposes, for for requests and
43:42his timeline is there. Is
43:43there any wiggle What's the
43:46next steps items on the 14th
43:48like if it was on the agenda,
43:48say for the 28th for approval,
43:52does that negatively impact
43:52this time? And I'm asking both
43:54the you.
43:57>> I'm sorry. couldn't hear
43:58you.
44:00>> Does if this discussed on
44:06the 28th versus the 14th and
44:09final decisions, what that
44:10impact or timeline time front
44:10of us here.
44:13>> It would kick back that the
44:14closing a few weeks. Yes.
44:17>> November 2. all depends
44:23probably before Thanksgiving.
44:24At some point, the 2 Johnson
44:27commissioners.
44:28>> We have a wet signature
44:28schedule that we're trying to
44:29align with. So what signature
44:34date that we're trying capture
44:34is October 28th in the next
44:38what signature date would be
44:39November the week of November.
44:4111th at that day is a holiday.
44:43So want to figure out
44:46alternate date. So it'll be
44:49sometime after that. We will
44:50closing could take place if we
44:51get this pick.
44:55>> And if I may go back to the
44:59developer feet question, if I
44:59could add a few points
45:00yesterday. So we close on tax
45:04credit projects be on them for
45:0515 years. initial compliance
45:07period. a big portion of of
45:11the sources of funding is a
45:11tougher developer. She and so
45:13this project.
45:15>> Tdp will be.
45:19>> Generating putting 1.7
45:21million of our own money to
45:22close. The closer you know to
45:26make the capital stack work
45:27for construction and the
45:28larger developer fee does add
45:30more tax credit equity.
45:34Really? It's just getting
45:35repaid through cash flow over
45:36the next 15 years. So we're
45:39getting tax credit basis off.
45:41Something that we're gonna get
45:41cash for your 1. If the
45:43developer fee was smaller. The
45:47owner still be getting that
45:48cash when you're 15, 14, 13 or
45:49never. just putting that into
45:53a lump sum that gets tax
45:53credit pieces on it. And
45:55that's what helps makes this
45:56project financially feasible.
46:02>> Thank you so much for being
46:05here. And then also I will
46:06most likely follow up. I am
46:08very interested communication
46:09of this. And I think it kind
46:09of share that with you, Mike.
46:12The community engagement peace
46:14has to be pretty rock solid on
46:15this building. And it has has
46:16had its challenges in the past
46:19about how information is
46:22translated from the owners to
46:23the residence. And I just want
46:24to make sure that up on your
46:26plans and especially around
46:27the construction site that
46:28you're set up for success. And
46:31that involves really being
46:32intentional about connecting
46:33to this community. That is
46:34there currently. Ad it's a
46:36little concerning that will
46:38say about. I think I have
46:39heard more things going well,
46:39but I think the piece around
46:42just the timeline and the the
46:43pace that it's moving. I think
46:46you want to have that town
46:47hall touts tpe style.
46:49conversation a little bit
46:50sooner than later. So I'm
46:52happy to follow up with you
46:54offline. Absolutely. And I
46:56guess maybe there isn't a
46:58mistake here. If say we closed
47:01November 3rd.
47:01>> Construction probably would
47:02likely start December. 1st. So
47:05there is there is a time
47:06difference there where we we
47:07will be notifying residents
47:10giving them ample notice.
47:12Okay. Yeah. Thank you for
47:13that.
47:17>> And then we have a public
47:18hearing that we do notice this
47:19all connects with staff as
47:20well after this. But I do
47:24appreciate yur willingness as
47:25well to here and to talk about
47:27this. really important project
47:29and to hear questions and take
47:32out there and add the
47:32additional contacts. That's
47:33very helpful. Absolutely.
47:33Thank you. Item number 4 staff
47:41report 26 Dash, 2, 1, 3
47:42introduction Thre board
47:44actions required for Lee TIF
47:44District decertification.
47:47>> welcome. Miss will.
48:10Johnson
48:11commissioners Tony Wolf, with
48:13PD because how much time do I
48:20We will park seem apologize. I
48:23think might have to kick it to
48:23the next Respectfully. I do
48:27appreciate the time that
48:28you've been given, but I want
48:29to make sure that we're able
48:31to a lot time here for the
48:31remainder of the time that we
48:34have.
48:34>> I apologize and you look at
48:39Trump's got my calendar Think
48:39you are the 28 next on the
48:4414th. So if you can make it
48:45will follow up with you. If it
48:48doesn't work, we'll find
48:49another time to actually do
48:49that if there are additional
48:50questions. But I do have your
48:51slides that are in front of us
48:52and we've been able
48:54>> to scare them. And then
48:55won't solely at for. But let
48:56us know if that the next time
48:58doesn't end up working for
48:59you. Thank you for being here.
49:08So will have 15 minutes. Thank
49:09you.
49:11>> So Jenny, Wolf, with PD
49:12here to talk about propose a
49:16tree actions required the
49:17regarding our tip districts
49:18and the certification. So a
49:23minute go to the table. First.
49:25Hear that you've seen before.
49:26This is the 4 subject
49:29districts tat referring to
49:29here that will have projected
49:33release tax capacity. So that
49:34tax cut passed, who will then
49:36be able 2 part of the tax base
49:38for pay 27. So changes would
49:41be implemented by the end of
49:43this year to take advantage of
49:46the pay 2027 tax generation s
49:51there are 40 districts said
49:52have I'm Ben. Discussed in the
49:57past and this includes the
49:59Garden for Emerald Park
50:00redevelopment district. it
50:04includes 3 subdistricts. And
50:06so the required
50:07decertification is 2028. And
50:10we would be looking to close
50:11that district at the end of
50:11this year, which would be 2
50:13years early. And the next one
50:15is the pine or and a cat 3
50:18development district. That one
50:19is scheduled t decertify in
50:222040 and we would be frozen at
50:23one at the end of this year,
50:24which is 14 years early. And
50:28then the next 2 items on the
50:29street here, Phalen village
50:30and riverfro renaissance.
50:33Those have subdistricts that
50:34cannot be closed. But what we
50:35would do is proposed to amend
50:36the TIF plan for each of these
50:40to TIF districts that would
50:41remove parcels from the TIF
50:42district so they would not be
50:43capturing tax increment in
50:46Page 27 and beyond which would
50:49then Florida, the tax base.
50:51And then I'm going just walk
50:53through each each one of these
50:584 So I just have us a map of
51:00the TIF district. And and just
51:05highlighting what projects
51:06we're done and that if for
51:08Emerald Park there was 3
51:09distinct some districts and
51:10projects that were created.
51:13There's the Emerald Gardens
51:15condominium project which has
51:18211 condo units and then
51:20there's the Metro 67 condo
51:23units. And then to wait very,
51:27which is a 267 rental
51:31apartment project and 30% of
51:32the units in that project are
51:34restricted. So the first
51:36collection in this TIFF
51:36district was 2003 requiring it
51:39to be just certified in 2028.
51:44For this tip district, we did
51:47issue multiple obligations
51:48that were pledging tax
51:48increments from the district
51:51in 2002, a tree issued a 3.1
51:53million dollar pay. As you go
51:55note and that was finance the
52:00gap in to wait very project.
52:01And then in 2010, the tree
52:04issued 6.6 million dollars of
52:06tax increment revenue
52:08refunding bonds and those
52:10funds refunded prior pay. As
52:11you go notes for the 2
52:13condominium projects, gardens
52:14and the Metro laughs and then
52:17that plan does also authorized
52:19pulling for affordable
52:20housing. So the tax increment
52:23dollars can be used avance
52:25affordable housing projects
52:26and you are within the city.
52:29So recently we have the debt
52:30obligations that were rpaid.
52:33And so staff is there for
52:34recommending that tee board
52:36authorized the TIF district to
52:37be closed early and at the end
52:40of this taxpayer. 26 releasing
52:44the the capture tax capacity
52:45into the tax base for pay. 27.
52:50And a note about this tiff
52:53district. It did increase the
52:53value in the city. I
52:55118 million dollars. So that
52:58was the impact of creating the
52:59TIF district. The next one.
53:04That would be a straight-up
53:05decertification is the pioneer
53:06and a cat TIF district. And
53:08that downtown Saint Paul here.
53:11That is with the historic
53:13pioneer in and the cop
53:14buildings on 4th and Robert.
53:16So this district was created
53:18in 2012 and resulted in a 234
53:23market rte units that were
53:26completed. And then 5,000
53:27Square feet of commercial
53:29space. And 36,000 square feet
53:32in that building up the
53:34commercial. The first
53:35collection was in 2015
53:41requiring district to be
53:41decertified decertified in
53:422040. Again. The tree issued
53:47obligations pledging tax
53:48increments from this tiff
53:49district i 2012, we issued a
53:522 and a half million dollar
53:53pay. As you go to note and in
53:562017, we issued a $900,000
53:56pay. As you go note that plan
54:01also authorized pulling for
54:02affordable housing to advance
54:03projects anywhere within the
54:04city. The debt obligations
54:10have recently been repaid and
54:12therefore staff is
54:12recommending that this tiff
54:14district be decertified at the
54:15end of this year through the
54:16pay 2026. Taxes releasing the
54:19tax is a tax base for pay
54:222027. And I forgot to mention
54:25on the other one. with the
54:26decertification that does not
54:30limit our spending, we can
54:30continue to spend the dollars
54:32that we have collected as long
54:32as we have a valid to plan
54:36budget and we have and are
54:36pulling limitations. Are we
54:38adhere to our appointment?
54:42Asians? This tiff district did
54:43generate increased out mrket
54:44value in the city of nearly
54:4530 million dollars. So then
54:50the next 2 are where we're
54:51going to remove parcels. So
54:53the first to talk about is the
54:55Phalen Village Redevelopment,
54:57Tipp District. So this has
55:01This was created in 2001 and
55:03then amended in 2008 and it
55:05was created to advance
55:07multiple projects within the
55:08Phalen village area. And you
55:09can see that it's south of
55:13Maryland and around Phalen
55:14Boulevard and west of
55:16Hazelwood, the first
55:18collection for this TIFF
55:19district was 2003 and it
55:22requires to certification by
55:222028. This tiff district is
55:27includes 2 distinct some
55:29districts. So the 2.34
55:32Subdistrict and the 2.69
55:32Subdistrict. They traded issue
55:39obligations and they and we
55:39pledged in comments from each
55:40of those subdistricts s that
55:43in 2003, he issued a $418,000
55:45pay. As you go note and that
55:48pledge the tax increments from
55:49the 2.69 Subdistrict and then
55:52in 2008 we issued a 3.1
55:53million dollar pay. As you go
55:55note, that pledge the
55:57incumbents from the 2.34
55:58subdistrict that 3.1 million
56:03do. I know it was to advance
56:04the new Cub Foods that was
56:05built there. That project the
56:072 planned all soul. As the
56:11others authorizes spending
56:11pulling for affordable
56:12housing. To finance,
56:14affordable projects anywhere
56:15in the city. So the folks I
56:20apologize. I forgot advanced
56:21slide. The complex obligation
56:24recently was paid off and
56:26therefore staff is
56:27recommending that the tree
56:30board either. I Zahn Amendment
56:32to the TIF plan that will
56:35remove the 2.34 tax parcels
56:35from the TIF district. And
56:38just leave that to 69
56:43Subdistrict in place because
56:44we do have an obligation that
56:46were required to continue
56:47cover with that. And this
56:52amendment will just the budget
56:53so that we aligned the
56:54spending side of the budget.
56:58for this to district, the
57:00original market value quite
57:03high because it is a very
57:04large area that was assembled
57:07of 20 Million. But we do have
57:09an increase 57 million dollars
57:15that we use generated to pay.
57:1726 and the release of the 2.34
57:22tax parcels 53 million of
57:24that. So not the full amount
57:25has been released since we're
57:26just able to release the 2.34
57:27parcels. And then I just
57:31listed here what development
57:33outcomes happened in that 5th
57:33district. If you want to
57:34review that and if go through
57:39this all the site. So lastly,
57:41I the riverfront Renaissance
57:42redevelopment district. So
57:45that was created in 2001 to
57:50advance 3 distinct projects,
57:50the upper landing project,
57:54which included a mix of
57:56affordable rental units and
57:59ownership units and then did
58:00quite a bit of public
58:02improvements. The U.S. Bank on
58:04the West Side Flats Project
58:05and then the Drake think
58:06project. TIF district started
58:10collections in 2003 and
58:13requiring it to be decertified
58:14in 2028. Aain, I'm gonna talk
58:19about the obligations within
58:20the district. So in 2002, the
58:25tree issued a 1.8 million
58:26dollar pay revenue bond for
58:29the draping project. And that
58:31was what's called the 2.62
58:34subdistrict in 2019, we
58:37expanded the project area so
58:39that we were able to advance
58:42the riverfront Riverview Lift
58:43Station Project for Housing
58:44and then we also issued
58:48additional revenue refunding
58:48bonds of 20.5 million. Those
58:52revenue bonds pledge the tax
58:53increments from 2 subdistricts
58:55the 225. And the 2.61 which
58:56are the oppor landing in the
58:58U.S. bank. Those obligations
59:00are still in place and cannot
59:02cannot b repaid. And so there
59:05that is why we have to keep
59:06those subdistricts So we're
59:12recommending that we amend
59:13that plan to pull out the
59:15parcels that we can that do
59:16not have the obligations tied
59:18to them. And if we do that,
59:22then starting in pay 27 and be
59:23on those checks, parcels will
59:24be in the tax base and not
59:25generating income. Aunt. And
59:28for this tough district. The
59:31total increase in value is
59:32nearly 250 million dollars.
59:36What we're really seeing right
59:36now is about 10 million of
59:37that increase. The district
59:41will need to be decertified at
59:43the end of or will be
59:44certified by its terms at the
59:44end of 2028. So just 2 more
59:46years. So that's the floor to
59:55districts and Subdistrict. I
59:56don't know if there's any
59:57questions. should pause there.
59:58Just continue on. With 5
1:00:00sites. That continue. Okay. So
1:00:11I just wanted cover again how
1:00:13much what the impacts are of
1:00:14these requests to
1:00:15decertification. So this slide
1:00:18here shows what our captured
1:00:21percent is. So 6 point, oh, 8%
1:00:22for pay. 26 and the county
1:00:27provided us the preliminary
1:00:28calculations for pay. 27 prior
1:00:31to doing need early. Do
1:00:33certification and they
1:00:35indicated that are captured
1:00:36percent would fall to 5.7%.
1:00:39This slide here shows what
1:00:44would it fall if we do
1:00:45complete these certifications?
1:00:48And so I'm projecting it would
1:00:49fall to 5.1, 3%. We won't know
1:00:53what that percentages until
1:00:54next march when the county
1:00:56finalizes all of page, 27
1:00:58taxes. And I'll just say that
1:01:00previously I had reported this
1:01:01as 4.6% a little bit, a little
1:01:05more aggressive. And I was
1:01:06double counting the to TIF
1:01:09districts that already
1:01:09decertified. the county had
1:01:10already taking those out and I
1:01:12took them out again. So
1:01:12apologies for that. So still,
1:01:19nonetheless, only have 5%,
1:01:21which is, you know,
1:01:22considerably lower than where
1:01:22had been. And then I just was
1:01:27summarize real quickly here.
1:01:28What the impact is of the the
1:01:31certifications. So with the
1:01:32percentage falling from what
1:01:33the county it estimated, it's
1:01:36about 6 tenths of a percent
1:01:37that it would fall and then
1:01:41they treat board had asked of
1:01:42all what is the impacts to the
1:01:44median valued home with these
1:01:482 certifications. So I did
1:01:48reach out to our finance
1:01:49office to calculate that for
1:01:51us. So that 2.0, 4, 3 million
1:01:54dollars that would be
1:01:57released. That would that S
1:01:58that's estimated to result in
1:02:00a $10 decrease to the median
1:02:01value of home. And then just
1:02:06lastly, as a aside that we we
1:02:11do have these TIF districts
1:02:12that we're pulling for
1:02:15affordable housing. These
1:02:16forward to district center
1:02:17discussed here have a balance
1:02:19expected at the end by the end
1:02:20of this year of about just
1:02:21under 14 million dollars. So
1:02:24these are very large drivers
1:02:25and are pulling for
1:02:25affordability. We have 2 of
1:02:27them that we are closing and
1:02:28we have 2 more that will
1:02:31expire at the end of 2028 by
1:02:35their terms. So I I don't want
1:02:37to say we're turning the tap
1:02:38off but returned the tap of
1:02:42and these are not access and
1:02:44commence the dollars that we
1:02:45have on hand to pull for
1:02:45affordable housing. a tree
1:02:52board action is expected not
1:02:54know under October 14th. That
1:02:55is going to be pushed out 2 in
1:02:57November. But what the action
1:02:59will include is 4 separate
1:03:01resolutions will be presented
1:03:02to the Tree Board for
1:03:04approval. The 2 of those will
1:03:07be the de certifications and
1:03:09then the other 2 will include
1:03:10to plan amendments. So that I
1:03:13think is end of my
1:03:14presentation. If there's any
1:03:14question. Thank you as well.
1:03:18And yes, just a quick Yes,
1:03:21October 14th date is changing
1:03:23will be discussing it during a
1:03:24November 18th meeting.
1:03:27>> during that time will take
1:03:29the court actions so that
1:03:30stick additional time because
1:03:34that agenda, it's also gonna
1:03:34be talking about budgets and
1:03:35for some of the additions. But
1:03:38also there seems to
1:03:39commissioner interests and
1:03:39potentially adding to that
1:03:40list of that.
1:03:41>> It's a good time for that
1:03:41as well. Commissioner Nick are
1:03:44thanks, Madam Chair of the
1:03:47Quick
1:03:47>> Really glad we're taking
1:03:48these actions. And Ed, $10
1:03:51sounds small, but knowing
1:03:54everything we know about
1:03:55affordability right now
1:03:56actually really significant.
1:03:56So grateful to see that. My
1:03:58questions are Are these all of
1:04:03the same tip districts that we
1:04:05looked at when we looked at
1:04:05the list. Last time I seem to
1:04:06remember seems like there are
1:04:07more so just kind of want to.
1:04:08Compare this with that. And
1:04:09then secondly. When this
1:04:13amount of tax capacity goes
1:04:13back. The county and the
1:04:18school district's levees are
1:04:19also based on our total tax
1:04:20capacity. Does that? Also mean
1:04:23that the impact of their levy
1:04:25increases would go down or
1:04:25does that mean we're double
1:04:28and triple counting the same
1:04:29amount going back to the tax
1:04:30base that makes sense. To
1:04:33Johnson Commission acre.
1:04:37>> So I'll try to answer what
1:04:38I can there. This is the same
1:04:40list. I just had counted as
1:04:43some districts. So what's not
1:04:46on here are the 2 housing to
1:04:47districts that staff is not
1:04:48recommending that So
1:04:50otherwise, it's the same list
1:04:51that you have seen in terms of
1:04:55counting the $10 I think the
1:04:59$10 is the amount of the
1:04:59city's taxes that will go
1:05:03down, everybody. All the other
1:05:06Texan jurisdictions will enjoy
1:05:07that. The additional tax based
1:05:08attacks upon. So it seems like
1:05:10it should go down as well as a
1:05:14matter of what is impact of
1:05:15their single right. But I
1:05:19don't quote me on
1:05:27>> Thank you as well. I also
1:05:27think that, you know, one of
1:05:29the things that I'll be really
1:05:31looking forward to the
1:05:31conversation on November 18th
1:05:32as the overall impact. So, you
1:05:36know, this is a constant seems
1:05:38to be a constant rate off
1:05:39between pulling resources for
1:05:40affordable housing.
1:05:43>> And then decertifying
1:05:44districts back to the tx
1:05:45base. It's something that
1:05:47we've continued to hear and
1:05:48both ways personally wear
1:05:49hats.
1:05:50>> This year, I just want to
1:05:52reiterate that the for that
1:05:54are proposed here in one way,
1:05:55shape or form, whether it's a
1:05:56straight up the certification
1:05:57or an amendment to district
1:06:01accompanied by 3. And I know
1:06:02it was on the slide. 3 other
1:06:04port district TIF districts as
1:06:05well that are being
1:06:07decertified. And so, you know,
1:06:07that's 7. TIF districts that
1:06:12are being amended South 5 at
1:06:13the center being straight up,
1:06:17the certified and propose to
1:06:19be with that this piece and
1:06:20just adding that additional
1:06:22contacts, especially to our
1:06:22colleagues who are looking at
1:06:24it. I also want to set the
1:06:27stage that I want keep in mind
1:06:28that when we pulled, we pull
1:06:31resources for affordable
1:06:32housing, we decide to
1:06:33decertify, let's say all of
1:06:34them early that that financial
1:06:36trade off. And I look forward
1:06:40to seen not only from like a
1:06:41taxpayer perspective, but also
1:06:42from affordable housing
1:06:44resources that we have or
1:06:45don't have that decision. And
1:06:48so that's that's something
1:06:49that I would say, especially
1:06:49if we're continuing to see
1:06:52housing trust fnd dollars
1:06:55each dollars local affordable
1:06:57dollars being offered as
1:06:58budgetary solutions for
1:06:59something other than
1:07:00affordable housing
1:07:01development. We genuinely. The
1:07:06question I have for my
1:07:07colleagues and all a swift.
1:07:10Where are we funding
1:07:10affordable housing when we're
1:07:11closing different avenues to
1:07:12be able to do that? And so I
1:07:16just want to add that for
1:07:17folks and also impressing
1:07:19really hard to talk about the
1:07:20housing trust fund transfers
1:07:21that are coming in and out of
1:07:22the terrain. So that's why
1:07:23you'll hear from departments
1:07:24that are going through it
1:07:25because it's all lnked at a
1:07:28time when the federal
1:07:29government and state entities
1:07:32are not funding think paw
1:07:32affordable housing projects.
1:07:33And we have multimillion
1:07:34dollar requests coming in from
1:07:35Highland Bridge from from the
1:07:38Heights Project from the hands
1:07:40for redevelopment. We really
1:07:41truly need to have a
1:07:41conversation about how we are
1:07:42going to plan for the
1:07:43Affordable housing development
1:07:44in the future. So just please
1:07:46keep that in mind as we
1:07:46continue this conversation
1:07:50because I know that one of the
1:07:51biggest ways to drive down the
1:07:53property taxes to add to the
1:07:54tax base. And that includes
1:07:55being able to build affordable
1:07:56housing here in Saint Paul. So
1:07:59>> with that, we will lay over
1:08:03the item for parks and recs
1:08:03funds transfer presentation.
1:08:05>> We'll slated for next week,
1:08:07October 14th at the time tat
1:08:08we're seeing with this item
1:08:09not coming in, but please do
1:08:12confirm that with direct
1:08:13right, because I feel terrible
1:08:14for not being able to get to
1:08:16them. So with that, we are
1:08:16adjourned.