2026-11-10 - Select Board

# transcript-source: whisper; whisper.cpp=1.9.5; model=ggml-small.en-q5_1.bin; vad=ggml-silero-v6.2.0.bin; language=en; transcribed=2026-11-11T07:25:49.354Z; job=tx-1794364569903-rmvmcv;

source=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LOXDHvzjqj4

07:22.50] It is 603 on Tuesday, November 10, 2026. I call the Select Board meeting to order. Please join me in my Pledge of Allegiance.

07:38.98] To the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.

07:55.03] Next I'm going to read the remote and hybrid opening meeting statement. Pursuant to Governor Healy's directive, extending temporary open meeting law provisions until June 30, 2027, the

Select Board meeting will be conducted in a hybrid format and will be recorded.

08:10.47] Any person in attendance making an audio or video recording of this meeting must notify the chair at this time. Recordings will be accessible on the town's website and YouTube channel.

08:20.00] Please be aware that participants attending via Zoom will have their video and audio disabled. If you wish to engage in the discussion, raise your hand. If the chair acknowledges you, you

will receive a pop-up message allowing you to be unmuted yourself.

08:35.61] For agenda, YouTube, and Zoom links, please visit www.suttonma.gov. Next up, a roll call, please. Jesse Lamannick, physically present. Jim Edimarnath, physically present. Christine Wilkins,

physically present. Dan Spangler, present. And Jonathan Anderson, in person.

08:55.04] Okay, next we have public forum. So before we start public forum, I just want to set the context for tonight's meeting.

09:04.99] So tonight we are not making a decision of the board. This is the first time that we are hearing of this project and discussing it as a board.

09:12.48] So in light of that, I'm going to keep our normal timeframe for public forum because we know as much information as you do that the information that was sent in our packet was put out on

the web for all of you to see.

09:26.72] So at this point in time, we are still, we haven't even had this discussion ourselves. So you will have plenty of opportunity over the next few months to come forward during different parts

of this process to voice your concerns and have your questions.

09:44.79] And there'll be public forums and we will also hold just, you know, overall like public forums for people to discuss this. This is a very serious matter. And we take it very seriously and

we want to, you know, get we want to get this out to you as quickly as possible.

09:59.04] Austin met with unified three weeks ago and we're bringing this to you all the information as of the same, we're finding out about it as well in detail. So, you know, I wrestled with

whether or not I was going to include more time for public forum at this point in time, but because we're just learning about it ourselves in detail, I want to limit it so we can get to the topic and

start discussing it.

10:20.52] This is not a public forum at this point in time. But, you know, again, we are not making a decision today. We're just gathering our own information as a board so that we can understand how

this is going to move forward, ask our own questions and our concerns and to see how this moves forward.

10:36.55] So this is not a project that's a done deal. This is far from what this is at the very, very beginning of the process. And so I just wanted to make people understand that context right now.

10:45.77] So, the way it's going to work is that with public forum we're going to limit each person who raises you know we have you raise your hand. I'm gonna do my best is a lot of people in here

I'm just going to pick someone again if you don't get up here today you'll have other

10:59.88] opportunities, but I'm going to give you three minutes, and then in order to get as many people in the 15 minutes as possible ask you that you're expedient about ending at the three

minutes, and then moving back so I can pick someone else.

11:10.69] So, and I'm also going to give some opportunities for people on zoom as well. So, right here, go ahead, come up to the seat please sit down and talk into the mic please.

11:27.75] Yeah, I want your name and address please.

11:29.79] I'm Rosanne Lebar, 20 Pine Point Drive, Sutton. I'm a retired physician, master of science and retired Air Force veteran. I speak in staunch opposition to any plans to develop data centers

currently in Sutton, Massachusetts, before newer methods are developed to address issues of aquifer drainage, water pollution,

11:47.88] air pollution, noise pollution, neighborhood and property impacts. Currently 70% of people across the US are opposed to data centers and for good reason.

11:59.09] On the ground studies have shown that data centers can increase the temperature four degrees to 10 degrees Fahrenheit within a five to 10 mile radius.

12:09.22] Living in Sutton we love the fact that we can go to Worcester and it's 97 degrees, and we pull into our driveway and it's a cool 85.

12:17.35] 85 is a critical point. If we raise the temperature five degrees above that, we have serious cognitive disabilities, heart stroke, diabetes, sleep problems, and all sorts of medical risk,

kidney risk.

12:31.41] In the US, death certificates have already shown that heat related deaths taught 4,000, and when you look at excess deaths, which includes those not reported on the death certificate, it

could be 9,000 per year.

12:44.63] Miscarriages, pre-term deliveries also spike with heat exposure. Massachusetts is starting to see its share of excess heat deaths and perinatal exposures.

12:55.79] A modest data center can consume as much electricity as 40,000 to 50,000 households. Now we're a small 9,000 plus household town.

13:06.81] The population of Sutton can only stand to lose from wasteful electricity usage and unclaimed release of the heat.

13:15.16] The cost of electricity will rise for everyone. Propane generators will create noise pollution, air pollution, as well as the heat.

13:22.44] In the future, this risk might be controlled and harvested, but current designs are not made to protect us.

13:29.44] Data centers can impact our water supply, water districts, and Sutton are already stressed with alternate day rationing in parts of Sutton.

13:37.94] Closed loop systems need periodic drainage and release dangerous PFAS chemicals into the environment and forever into our bodies.

13:45.97] A cumulative toxin like arsenic. These can have devastating consequences on child development and host cancer, neurologic disease, as well as diabetes and immune disease.

14:02.75] Noise pollution from the generator comes in two forms, the mild high frequency, mid and high that they can get rid of with barriers,

14:10.92] and the low frequency that travels for miles and affects us even though we don't hear it, and that can cause effect on stress levels, behaviors, heart, diabetes, stroke, and cancer risk.

14:22.85] Other rare risks include contamination of reclaimed wastewater supply with rare multi-resistant bacteria, a case that went on for months in Cheyenne, Wyoming.

14:32.86] In summary, the risks are too great until we are fully educated on the risks and more thoughtful proposals.

14:38.94] I propose a moratorium on data center development in Sutton before we cause irreparable environmental and personal harms.

14:45.94] Thank you.

14:52.90] Hi, Jen Heck, 178 Burbank Road. Thank you, Austin and Jen, for putting this together.

15:06.70] I think we should turn to every rock, be dually diligent, but I would like to say this prepared statement nonetheless.

15:15.07] Developed as proposed, this would rank among the largest data centers in the United States. Each building would contain nearly six acres of floor space for a combined total the size of 43

football fields.

15:26.07] This would be a generational change that would redefine what Sutton is. With that in mind, my questions.

15:31.37] The timeline we've seen has us acting before the facts are in, and key state guidance isn't due until December 31st.

15:38.58] How can we draft a smart agreement or address zoning before we know the impact on water, power, noise, generators, and health, or what this will cost the town and police, fire, and road

repairs?

15:49.58] And why are we being asked to by town meeting? Who will negotiate a deal of this magnitude for Sutton? This is my biggest point.

15:57.39] With the craft group on the other side of the table, and very few people in the United States experienced in negotiating deals of this scale involving rapidly evolving technology, how will

town get the best independent legal, financial, and technical expertise so we aren't outmatched in negotiating a generational deal?

16:14.39] The expertise needed to close this deal could conceivably exceed one million dollars. And if there's three law firms in the country that can do this, and I was Bob Kraft, I would have

already hired them.

16:23.39] The town's own model shows phase one tax payments dropping as the equipment loses value. We know that revenue will decline in ways we can't predict as we face our first A.I. bubble.

16:34.15] Adding to that, data center owners often go back later and argue their property is worth less so they pay less tax. How can you ensure that long term this deal won't cost more than it

returns?

16:44.27] Will you commission a study of how home values could be affected using comparable sites, and how can that be done accurately when most of these sites, these mega sites, are too new to show

reliable trends?

16:54.74] Near X.A.I.'s Colossus II data center, the company has reportedly offered to buy as many as 418 homes if the owners drop a noise lawsuit. Will protections for Sutton homeowners, like a

property value guarantee or compensation for noise, be built into this deal?

17:09.74] Can you outline the previous unified deal, including the reported $46 million tax break and which goals were met and which goals fell short?

17:18.44] Past performance with this same partner is an important comparison.

17:22.40] As someone who lived in Manhattan for many years, I was present for several terrorist attacks, including attacks on infrastructure. Having lived it, I worried even before this proposal

about how an attack on infrastructure could create local chaos.

17:34.39] We just had one this weekend in Massachusetts. That risk just went up. This data center would become a part of the nation's critical data infrastructure, and that would make Sutton a

potential direct target for cyber attacks and potentially more.

17:48.60] That risk cannot be fully offset if we proceed. It is what it is. But how can this be addressed in this deal and who will pay for the emergency planning and any collateral insurance could

cost homeowners?

18:01.66] Lastly, this issue divides communities. How have we factored that in?

18:06.32] All right. Thank you, Jen. Right there.

18:20.74] Mario Jamai, 86 Boston Road. I just want to talk a minute to the board. My belief, having been on the board in the past, has nothing to do with the excellent presentations that were just

given by the townspeople.

18:33.98] But I feel as a board, when I was on the board, our job was to weigh in on the 5149 issues, the 5248 issues.

18:42.32] I think you're going to see that this is a 70 or 80 percent no issue. And at that point, you should do the will of the people of this town. It doesn't matter what you think of the project.

18:54.64] If the people of this town say no, the answer is no. And anything but no is not going to be acceptable. And that is the truth. And that, I believe, is your responsibility.

19:03.86] You feel you do what's in your heart. But the reality is, if it's something close and we're fighting 50/50, it's one thing. If it's 80 percent no, then your job, I believe at that point, is

to say no. And that is it.

19:15.98] Thank you. Thank you.

19:23.42] My name is Sophia Swartz, 48 Partridge Hill Road. I just wanted to lay out a few of the facts that I did some research on about this data center and data centers all over the country, just

to give everybody a bit of perspective as to how this would affect the local community.

19:44.36] This proposed data center would draw 900 megawatts of power when complete. That will power 675,000 homes. Sutton has an unbelievably amount lower than that. I believe the number that I was

given earlier was 3,600, but it might even be more or less.

20:01.43] Sutton's a really picturesque town. I don't see data center in my mind when I think of Sutton. I see trees, I see lakes, I see landscapes, I see rural communities.

20:11.40] We have a beautiful vernacular culture here and data centers are not something that needs to come in and poison that. Private investors will be funding this and it will cost 16 billion

dollars, but that is for one data center.

20:24.81] Our town as a whole is worth 2.8 billion dollars. So that's around eight times the worth of the town going into one data center. I just find that a little bit shocking.

20:33.93] Their University of Georgia did a field report on data centers and their water usage. 50% of all data centers in the United States use local municipal water sources to cool their systems.

20:49.47] 80 to 90% of that water comes from local lakes, local rivers, local reservoirs, things like that. It's used through evaporative cooling systems, which means that this water is not flushed

back into water treatment plants after it's finished being used to cool things.

21:04.26] It's evaporated and it is not returned back to the local water cycle. One AI query, so think about this next time you want to go and use chat GPT for something, uses 16 ounces of water.

21:14.89] 15 million chat GPT queries a day alone. Imagine the amount of water that's going to use. As for the 900 megawatts of power, that's going to come from the electric power grid.

21:25.43] And if and when that eventually fails because of the strain, what are we going to do? How are we going to ensure that the power grids don't fail? Because that is a lot of power.

21:34.81] That is 675,000 households worth of power being used to power one data center. We don't even have that many. I did a little count of some houses in Northbridge, Uxbridge, Millbury, Douglas

and Blackstone as well as Sutton.

21:48.73] The total amount of households in all of those towns combined is 24,625. That still does not come anywhere close to the 675,000 that these 900 megawatts would be powering.

21:58.73] So I just wanted to give everybody a few numbers to consider just going forward.

22:03.15] Thank you.

22:06.01] Who's next?

22:10.53] Mike Galli, 10 Purgatory Road.

22:22.07] So I moved to Sutton the same week my oldest son was born four years ago. I have another son and a third kid on the way.

22:31.83] This town had everything that we wanted. We wanted land, we wanted a dark sky, and we wanted a sense of community in nature. This is none of those things.

22:43.18] I don't want to see this town sell its soul and get stuck as kind of the dumping ground of the AI industry.

22:51.17] So data centers are essentially the concentration of all of the negative externalities of the AI race that's happening right now.

22:59.80] Rural Texas residents three miles away from data centers can't see the stars anymore because of the glow at night.

23:07.75] In Virginia, families near the data center say their walls shake because of the noise, because of the constant hum.

23:16.15] In Northern Virginia, researchers are estimating around $260 million worth of health costs because of pollution.

23:25.39] In Georgia and Indiana, there's wells that are failing because of the data centers.

23:31.56] These are a few examples of data centers that are significantly smaller than the data center that's being proposed here.

23:41.65] Somebody else went through the numbers, so I won't go through that again.

23:44.91] But something to remind everybody is it will never turn off. This is something that will be on all the time.

23:50.97] That's part of why data centers exist is they are the concentration of constant energy, their constant noise, their constant pollution.

23:58.97] Looking at the proposal, if we do decide to sell our town's identity, because that's essentially what this would be doing, let's not be so cheap about it.

24:11.29] So we have to do our homework. We have to make sure that we have protections.

24:14.89] We have to make sure that we have protections that we can enforce in place.

24:17.89] So make sure those protections are enforceable, not via lawsuits, but via action through local authorities.

24:26.50] So things like well testing, things like noise testing, things like light monitoring, they need to be enforceable by the town, not by lawsuits.

24:35.65] Lawsuits have often taken multiple years before they're actually enforced.

24:40.65] So there's examples of three-year lawsuits, I think that's in Virginia, and some others that are multi-year.

24:47.55] Last part, if we're going to do this, make them pay full price.

24:54.61] Developers are saying that this is going to be worth $17 billion or whatever the figure was.

25:00.61] The figure that we have for the income is only about 0.17% of that.

25:07.82] So rather than trying to set ourselves up for failure to only recognize that much tax income, let's have a minimum assessment that is the dollar value that they're saying,

25:22.04] and have that minimum assessment increase with inflation.

25:26.86] Alright, thank you.

25:36.15] Good evening, my name is Sarah Osterman-Stone, Sibley Road.

25:39.15] I'm a 45-year resident of this town, and throughout my entire life living here, I have heard over and over again about the historical integrity of this town,

25:49.65] the agricultural integrity of this town, and all of the things that we do as residents to uphold that, and this is absolutely not that.

25:58.91] This is completely the opposite of what we have set out to do in this town, as I have lived here.

26:04.93] And secondly, I have heard about the process going forward, and I would like to see this process stop tonight.

26:12.24] I don't understand why we need to continue moving forward.

26:17.46] If that is possible, then let's just stop it, because I think we've heard a lot of data points about negative impacts on this town.

26:27.73] But if we do or you continue to go forward, I ask of you as our select board members to keep the residents of this town centered in this discussion,

26:39.26] and what we want as residents in this town as opposed to what the board may want to ease financial burdens.

26:46.42] There was a reference to financial burdens in the article I read earlier, and I don't think we should be held hostage to the poor decisions that were made in the past.

26:56.50] There is another way to find a solution. And I would say the only question I have is, was this sought out, or was this brought to the town?

27:08.70] Because if it was sought out to bring into the town by elected officials or any employee of the town, I would ask to look in a different direction in the future. Thank you.

27:18.75] Thank you. Okay, you're the last one.

27:28.94] Okay, so I just moved to Millbury a year ago to start a family. And this is not what I'm looking for. I don't have a lot to say, except for echoing that the process can start or stop now,

and it can be a no, I just have a demonstration.

27:51.95] So this is the noise that would be constant once the ad is over. But yeah, so I'm just gonna play this noise that we would all hear in our homes every single day, all day, all night, 24/7.

28:08.82] Yes, and think about the value of our homes and the resale value with this noise.

30:11.98] I'm in the room that we didn't allow anybody on zoom to speak so I'm going to choose one person from there and we'll go from there so I see, I think it's Jessica Hebert can't quite see, but

my name is Jessica Herbert, I'm a graduate of Sutton High School class of 2013.

30:30.14] And although I now reside in Millbury, I grew up in this community and I have family there and still care deeply about its future. I'm here online tonight because I have serious concerns

about the proposed status center.

30:43.17] Particularly unprecedented sale, and the potential consequences not only for Sutton, but also for the neighboring communities of Millbury and Grafton as well.

30:55.26] I do recognize that rejected tax revenue is fairly substantial. And I understand why that might make this proposal attractive. However, I am concerned that we're being presented with

detailed projections of the potential financial benefits.

31:13.06] Without comparable data establishing the potential costs to the infrastructure environment and public health.

31:22.06] The proposed campus would have an electrical demand of approximately 900 megawatt hours, which I do believe someone mentioned previously.

31:32.03] At a percent average utilization that represents roughly 6.3 touch a watt hours of electricity annually. And that's actually the equivalent of the annual electricity consumption of

approximately 900,000 households using 7,000 kilowatt hours per year.

31:53.65] That is an extraordinary amount of electricity for a single development, particularly in a community of Sutton's small size.

32:03.91] And before any decisions are made that facilitate a project of this magnitude, I believe residents deserve to know whether our regional electrical infrastructure can accommodate that demand

without increasing residential utility costs or compromising grid reliability.

32:22.51] What is equally important is establishing exactly who would be financially responsible for the infrastructure improvements necessary to support it.

32:31.18] I'm also concerned about potential impacts on local water resources. Depending on the cooling technology selected, apparently a facility of the scale would require vastly substantial

quantities of water.

32:46.12] And while reclaimed wastewater had reportedly been discussed as a potential cooling source, that raises some additional questions about treatment capacity, downstream water availability,

and the broader environmental consequences of diverting that water from its existing discharge pathways as it is.

33:05.49] There's also legitimate public health concerns associated with the backup generation equipment, including potential emissions of particulate matter and nitrogen oxide levels, as well as the

possibility of continuous industrial noise affecting surrounding residential neighborhoods, as that demonstration showed perfectly.

33:24.77] These aren't simply speculative concerns raised by people opposed to development. They're recognized considerations in Massachusetts' own framework for responsible data center development.

33:36.82] And executive order 658 specifically addresses the potential consequences of these facilities for electrical affordability, grid reliability, water resources, air quality, and public

health.

34:00.75] I just want to emphasize that this isn't something that would just impact Sutton alone, and it just has such huge ramifications for two other towns that are so much larger than Sutton and

the potential effects on quality of life, public health, and the environmental health, especially being so close to Martha Deering Wildlife Refuge as well.

34:28.81] Thank you. All right, so I'm going to wrap the public forum for right now again.

34:41.03] This is a due diligence process you will be the public will be part of the process you will be many opportunities for you to speak. This is just the very very beginning of this.

34:51.23] And I just, you know, at the end of the day, if this if through due diligence, and it makes it to town meeting this will be decided by the voters not by the board.

35:11.22] We've already, we've already come out of public forum so I've asked you, you'll have plenty of time to ask questions.

35:40.96] Disruptive for trying to move the meeting along so we can have a discussion as a board.

35:46.49] We're going to we need to discuss this as a board we haven't even discussed this yet.

35:51.49] I'm not arguing enough. Please stop.

35:58.15] unanimous opposition.

36:02.37] No, we're done with the public forum.

36:06.37] You may have to clear the room.

36:12.35] Please sit down. I want to know. Sit down please. What are you getting paid to bring this to the voters with 12 hours notice.

36:21.44] Okay, just move on. Yeah, we're moving on to the next agenda minutes. All right, Mr. Chairman, if I may, I'd like to make a motion to approve the minutes from our October 27 2026 select

board meeting minutes as presented.

36:35.23] Second those. All right, any discussion. Okay, roll call vote please. Jesse Lamannik I and Martin abstain.

36:42.69] And Jonathan Harrison I.

36:47.57] Okay, next we have the on the agenda is the IMA regional animal control trip, just to quickly introduce this at the previous select board meeting we asked the board to approve town council

working on an intermeasurable agreement on behalf of the town of Sutton to join the Blackstone regional animal control with the

37:09.83] to consider further regionalization efforts of town services animal control was was one of the many services that the chief and I discussed early on, certainly when I joined as an

opportunity to regionalize.

37:22.20] Since then we've had discussions with chief mop many from the town of bucksbridge about the regional animal control service offered by experts we were actually offered to join this when

this was initiated 10 or somewhat years ago, if not longer.

37:37.30] The, the benefits of this, we believe in terms of benefits of the overall regional animal control or staffing capacity and also kind of capacity.

37:47.90] We also believe this will come at a lower annual operating cost for the town of sudden and long term reliability of the service so what you have in front of you are two documents and

amendment to the intermeasurable agreement between Blackstone and the existing towns,

38:02.28] which would add the town of Sutton to this, the current IMA is set to expire in 2028. There is a buy in fee for this, just simply due to the anticipated additional expenses for the town of

Sutton joining this program, and the annual buying fee I believe is $20,000 to be funded through the operating budget.

38:23.81] So, that's it in summary happy to answer any questions the board may have for chief if you have anything you want to add. No, that's pretty much it this is our second time pass through this

and you have.

38:33.03] So this is the actual formal documentation that has been vetted by legal, so we can enter. All right. Does anybody on the board have any questions.

38:43.07] Yeah, Mr. Chairman, if I may. The one question that I have is in terms of the types of animals that will be addressed.

38:50.23] One of the issues that we've had in the past is our former animal control officer only dealt with certain animals.

38:57.23] I think it was mostly dogs, I don't think he dealt with cats, because he had the limitation and where he could house those animals. Are we going to see similar restrictions with this type

of agreement, or can Oxford handle any type of animal that may be found running wild as it were.

39:13.42] There'll be no restrictions going. We're increasing bandwidth and services and decreasing expenditures through the operating budget. So it's really honestly a no brainer for us to go this

route, and we're going to get twice the coverage than we currently have.

39:27.58] If for some reason it's a pet that goes stray, will the owner if they go to claim them will they be charged for any housing fees food fees and things like that.

39:37.68] It will depend on the length of time that they're actually in the shelter, they'll be housed at the shelter in Blackstone.

39:42.68] Okay.

39:44.26] Our first response is always to try to find the owner before they're ever transported out of town anyway.

39:49.34] Of course, I just know in the past, I believe it was Clark's.

39:52.34] This is our new ACO potentially.

39:55.43] Hey there. How are you guys?

39:56.43] Mr. Chairman, would you like to allow him to introduce himself please?

39:59.75] Hi, my name is Kevin Sullivan. I'm with Blackstone Valley Animal Control. I've been Animal Control Officer with Blackstone Valley for 20 years now.

40:05.75] Thank you.

40:08.35] Anybody have any other questions?

40:10.25] All right. So as I started saying, I know in the past if a dog, a pet was found to stray, they would end up over at Clark's, and they would be kind of there for a little bit.

40:18.25] And if the dog owner went to go reclaim the dog, at that point, they would be assessed the fees of housing them at Clark's.

40:24.25] Do you have a similar fee structure at your facility?

40:27.25] Yes. So there's actually a fee set by Mass General Law. So there's a set fee of $40 per calendar day for animals that are held.

40:34.25] There are certain circumstances. We do medical holds, different situations from mental health holds where we waive fees.

40:43.24] This is typically for, you know, strays, and that's after we attempt to locate the owner first.

40:49.27] Okay. All right. Great. And you said medical concerns, so rabid animals, things along those lines?

40:54.27] So we essentially, through Blackstone Valley Animal Control, we handle everything. From livestock to cats and dogs to wildlife, we respond for everything.

41:01.27] Okay. Perfect. I have no further questions. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

41:03.27] Yeah.

41:04.27] Anybody else?

41:05.84] No.

41:06.90] No.

41:08.06] All right. This is board discussion. This is not public hearing. All right. No other questions? Do we have a motion?

41:15.95] All right.

41:17.04] Mr. Chairman, I would like to make a motion to authorize the town manager to enter into an animal control intermunicipal agreement, or an IMA, between Blackstone, Douglas, Hopedale, Mendon,

Millville, and Uxbridge.

41:28.14] I'll second that.

41:29.20] Okay. Any other discussion? Okay. Roll call vote, please.

41:32.68] Jesse Lamantik, aye.

41:33.68] Edamard, aye.

41:34.68] Watkins, aye.

41:35.68] Spangler, aye.

41:37.26] And Anderson, aye.

41:39.95] All right.

41:40.95] Next on the agenda is UGPG proposed lot one.

41:48.86] Lot one development opportunity.

41:52.31] All right, Austin, want to give it?

41:59.20] I'm sorry. Lot one?

42:00.39] Yep. Okay.

42:01.41] All right.

42:06.05] Give me a second.

42:11.33] I thought we would move in the community garden.

42:12.33] I just thought I'd just move forward with this.

42:14.33] Oh, okay.

42:16.19] You have to slide us.

42:20.49] All right.

42:21.49] Yeah, that's fine.

42:22.49] We've got to get over that one.

42:27.85] All righty members of the board members of the community this evening,

42:31.85] presenting a proposal.

42:32.85] The town has received from unified global packaging group in the craft

42:36.85] group for a potential data center project for the unified site.

42:41.03] Before I begin, I understand.

42:42.94] This is a little bit different than how we've typically operate over

42:46.09] the past several meetings,

42:48.09] but I'd ask the board actually just to let me proceed through the

42:50.09] presentation its entirety,

42:52.03] hold your comments or questions until the end.

42:54.09] We greatly appreciate it.

42:55.18] There's a lot that I want to get through and I want to have time to

42:57.18] share that and share what we understand at this time.

43:00.27] So first and foremost,

43:02.78] I also want to frame the discussion at the outset.

43:04.78] So for several years we've been working closely with unified to

43:09.03] identify the right development opportunity for the property that makes

43:13.12] that's not only for them, but for Sutton in our long-term needs.

43:17.12] They've mentioned this as an opportunity that they are willing to

43:20.56] explore and I think it's our responsibility now to understand the

43:23.56] opportunity, understand the impacts and benefits and determine whether

43:27.62] this is something that the town wants to pursue.

43:30.62] So tonight is not a recommendation of the project and the board is not

43:35.12] being asked to approve it as well.

43:37.12] Staff, we have spent the past several weeks researching the proposal,

43:40.85] the state's new regulatory framework,

43:44.01] the valuation of comparable facilities and the experience of other host

43:48.93] communities and the purpose of this presentation is to share what we have

43:51.93] learned, explain the assumptions behind our estimates,

43:54.96] identify what remains unknown so that the board can decide what further

43:59.18] work is warranted over the next several months.

44:01.18] All figures in this presentation are preliminary and where an assumption

44:06.68] was required, we chose the more conservative option.

44:10.74] So this evening's discussion assumes the town moves forward with

44:16.89] evaluating this proposal and focuses on what due diligence would

44:21.92] involve and what the board should understand as it begins.

44:24.92] So on the left side of the slide is what staff has been able to

44:28.24] establish so far, which is the developer's tentative proposal and

44:33.27] their tax study.

44:34.26] The state requirements, as mentioned earlier under the governor's

44:37.74] executive order, 658, which was signed in September, are preliminary

44:41.71] fiscal estimates built on the town's own financial plan and a review of

45:00.37] how other host communities have structured their agreements and zoning.

45:04.37] I just want to give a second because I want people to be able to see this

45:07.58] information.

45:40.54] All right.

45:45.24] And on the right are the questions that this process will need to answer.

45:49.33] The most significant right now is we need to further understand what

45:53.49] exactly the facility is composed of, not just structurally but also what

45:57.49] is housed within side of it because equipment represents roughly half of

46:03.19] the potential value of the property.

46:06.19] We also need further detail on water supply and reuse, on power

46:10.60] procurement and interconnection, noise, traffic, construction impacts.

46:14.60] Answering those questions will require legal counsel review and

46:19.04] independent technical expertise and certainly the involvement of several

46:23.16] town departments, boards, and the community as a whole.

46:25.16] So the rest of this presentation walks through the proposal, the fiscal

46:28.45] picture, and then the due diligence process itself.

46:31.45] So this slide summarizes the project as described by UGPG.

46:37.12] Phase 1 consists of two buildings of approximately 250,000 square feet and

46:42.56] 90 megawatts each, slated to potentially open in 2029.

46:47.51] They value these each at $675 million of real property made up of $75 million

46:52.51] for the corn shell and $600 million for the data center fit out, meaning the

46:56.64] electrical, cooling, and generator systems.

47:00.37] Personal property value such as the racks and the servers is estimated at $1

47:04.49] billion per building, that's about $3.35 billion for Phase 1 in today's

47:09.68] dollars.

47:10.68] The developer's schedule then adds two buildings per year beginning in 2030,

47:15.06] ending in 2033 for a total of 10 buildings.

47:18.06] As mentioned earlier, for context, all property in Sutton currently assessed

47:22.73] is approximately $2.85 billion in value today.

47:25.95] Our estimates will follow substantially lower values than the developers,

47:30.52] which I will explain shortly.

47:32.71] So many of the initial questions have concerned power, water, cooling,

47:40.26] and noise.

47:41.26] The governor's executive order, as I mentioned earlier, signed in early

47:45.02] September, applies to any new data center over 25 megawatts and builds on

47:50.17] the Commonwealth framework, which was also issued in June of this year.

47:53.17] And several provisions of the order and the framework are directly relevant

47:59.71] to this project in the process.

48:00.71] The first is local control.

48:02.71] State agencies will not advance permits without local approval and a community

48:08.15] benefits agreement that meets state standards, which makes the town's

48:11.85] approval an actual genuine precondition.

48:14.85] The second is ratepayer protection.

48:17.52] The developer must fund the full cost of grid infrastructure, and the

48:21.67] Department of Public Utilities is finalizing a large rate schedule so that

48:25.67] upgrade costs are not passed to customers.

48:27.86] Third is clean energy.

48:30.53] The developer must also procure new clean energy to cover its expected

48:34.52] annual consumption.

48:35.52] If it does not, it must make an alternative compliance payment into a new

48:40.67] ratepayer protection fund, which is used to reduce electricity supply costs

48:44.73] for all ratepayers.

48:46.70] Fourth is water.

48:47.79] So Mass Department of Environmental Protection is developing protocols

48:52.17] requiring the developer to demonstrate adequate supply and compliance with

48:57.52] any wastewater, water, and stormwater standards.

49:00.52] Several of these protocols and a municipal guidance document will be

49:03.74] published by the end of this calendar year, so we'd want to review them, of

49:06.74] course, before any agreement is finalized.

49:08.74] NOISE is not specifically addressed in the governor's framework, and

49:14.08] certainly will rely on our bylaw and our benefits agreement.

49:18.56] So this slide presents the preliminary fiscal estimates.

49:24.73] All figures are using the town's planning case, which I mentioned earlier is

49:28.76] the more conservative estimate.

49:31.10] The green side is phase one.

49:33.30] Gold is the full 10-building campus.

49:36.39] First, annual property taxes, approximately $10.4 million once phase

49:40.39] one is fully assessed in FY2031 and just under $28 million at full buildout

49:46.39] in 2035.

49:47.39] The second is building permit fees of approximately $6.3 million for phase

49:51.89] one and $31 million in total.

49:54.89] That estimate applies our current rate schedule of $10 per $1,000 as a

50:00.27] placeholder rate to building value only.

50:02.27] So in all likelihood, it likely underestimates actual permit revenue, and

50:07.55] because it's one-time revenue, I would assume that we would use that for

50:11.42] capital reserves and any other liabilities.

50:14.62] The third is levy growth.

50:16.54] So as the community is aware, proposition two and a half, any new

50:20.54] construction added to the levy limit added to the levy limit at its value

50:25.73] multiplied by the prior year's tax rate, and that increase is permanent.

50:29.86] For phase one, that's approximately $2.9 million in 2030 and $10 million

50:35.08] in 2031, or about $12.9 million in total added to the levy.

50:41.07] And about $46.3 million for the full campus.

50:43.97] By comparison, our current model only assumes $250,000 per year in ordinary

50:50.38] new growth.

50:51.92] Fourth is added taxable value of $1.1 billion for phase one and $4.9 billion

50:59.56] for the full campus by 2035.

51:01.56] So this chart shows the estimated revenue by fiscal year for the full campus

51:08.72] on the developer schedule.

51:09.72] The green bars are the data center property taxes.

51:13.78] The small bar in FY 2030 reflects phase one buildings partially complete by

51:18.91] January 1 of 2029, which by state law allows us to capture partial value.

51:23.90] In 2031, phase one is then fully assessed at about $10.4 million, and the

51:28.55] second pair of buildings is partially built, bringing the total to about $12

51:31.64] million.

51:32.64] Revenue then rises each year as another pair is complete, reaching about

51:37.18] $27.8 million in 2035 when all 10 buildings are fully assessed.

51:41.18] After that, it dips slightly as equipment begins to depreciate, then grows

51:45.50] gradually to about $34.5 million in 2042.

51:48.50] From 2030 to 2042, the estimated total is about $323 million.

51:56.14] As I mentioned earlier, the gold segments are one-time permit fees, which

51:59.62] we assume are collected as each pair begins construction.

52:03.62] Again, as I mentioned earlier, those are based on estimated building value

52:07.03] and should be treated as one-time revenue.

52:11.28] Every estimate in this presentation depends obviously on a single question.

52:17.80] What's the facility going to be worth for property tax purposes?

52:20.86] For that reason, I want to go a little bit deeper and explain our evaluation

52:24.24] assumptions in some detail.

52:26.24] The gray line, the top line, represents the developer's figures, and the dark

52:31.86] line represents the town's plan in case that I just explained.

52:35.24] The dotted line below is building and land value, and the area above that

52:39.65] between the dotted and the green line is equipment.

52:42.84] For buildings, we used $1,000 per square foot, or about $250 million per

52:48.69] building, which is about the midpoint between the $8,500 per square foot

52:53.87] presented for data centers at the International Association of Assessing

52:57.87] Officers Conference this year.

52:59.87] The developer's estimate, as mentioned earlier, is about $675 million, which

53:04.54] equates to about $2,700 per square foot, most of its $600 million fit out of

53:09.50] electrical, cooling, and generator systems, and our assessor's office would

53:13.47] need to determine how those components are classified and valued.

53:16.47] For equipment, we assumed standard servers rather than higher-cost AI

53:21.26] hardware, about 70 megawatts of IT load per building below the 90 megawatt

53:26.35] facility rating to account for any cooling and building systems, at about

53:31.79] $1 million per megawatt, or $560 million installed.

53:36.07] We then assumed 60% of that cost is taxable in the first year, then declining

53:41.07] 20% per year to a floor of about 30% of cost.

53:45.41] That approach is informed by some other communities across the country,

53:49.85] particularly Loudoun County, Virginia, which is known as the nation's

53:54.87] largest data center market and how they depreciate their equipment.

53:58.85] The developer assumed, of course, $1 billion of equipment per building

54:03.69] depreciating at 15% a year with a full replacement every six year.

54:07.69] The result is about $4.9 billion of value at full buildout in 2035 compared

54:13.07] to the $14.7 billion using the developer's figures.

54:16.07] So in FY2031, based off our conservative estimates, the average homeowner

54:21.86] saves about $2,300 from phase one under our assumptions.

54:24.86] We chose to start conservatively because, of course, the risk of overestimating

54:30.56] any revenue is greater than the risk of underestimating it.

54:37.14] So this table presents the same comparison from the last slide by component.

54:42.45] In the town planning case, of course, as I mentioned, $250 million per building

54:46.48] equipment, $560 million installed, of which we're taxing at 60% of that value,

54:51.57] combined about $586 million of taxable value per building in its first year,

54:56.49] or about a third of the developer's $1.7 billion estimate.

55:03.08] This slide shows the estimated effect of the average single-family tax bill

55:07.08] using our current parcel data of approximately 3,000 single-family homes

55:12.06] here in Sutton.

55:13.21] By 2031, we are presuming 4% annual growth rate and residential home value.

55:19.06] The estimated average single-family value in 2031 we estimate would be

55:24.54] approximately $775,000.

55:26.54] The gold line represents the outlook without the project, which already assumes

55:31.95] that the overrides are used to close our gaps that have been discussed

55:34.95] over the past several months.

55:36.90] We believe that's the appropriate comparison because, candidly,

55:39.90] for a town of our revenue outlook, unfortunately,

55:43.90] overrides would be likely the only way to add sufficient revenue to balance our budget.

55:50.55] That line rises to about $7,500 from today to more than $15,000 by 2042

55:56.55] for the average single-family tax bill.

55:59.15] So the light green line is phase one alone.

56:03.11] The reality begins to affect bills in FY30, and in FY31,

56:07.36] the average bill is estimated at $6,846 compared to where we would assume

56:12.36] the tax bill would be at just over $9,100.

56:15.36] Again, about a $2,300 reduction.

56:18.83] The dark line is the full campus on the developer's schedule,

56:21.83] which reduces the average tax bill to about $5,100 by 2035

56:27.02] compared to just under $11,000 we would assume without the project.

56:33.96] The slide shows the same effect but actually on our tax rate.

56:36.99] So the tax rate is the levy divided by your total assessed value.

56:41.08] So the project on its face, we're assuming,

56:44.62] does not require significant changes to the operating budget,

56:48.58] but obviously does increase the value of the community for taxable value.

56:53.57] Without the project, and again, as I mentioned earlier, assuming overrides,

56:58.05] the rate rises from $11.33 today to about $11.78 in FY31

57:04.27] and to about $12 in FY35.

57:08.59] With phase one, the estimated rate in FY31 is $8.83.

57:14.70] With the full campus, it could fall to just under $5.70 by FY2035.

57:21.10] These are single tax rates used to isolate the effect of the project.

57:25.26] Each year, of course, as we just did at our last meeting,

57:27.26] the board will hold an annual classification hearing

57:30.26] and may shift a greater share of the levy to commercial,

57:33.26] industrial and personal property, which would include the data center.

57:36.26] That could reduce the residential rate further,

57:38.71] but obviously as a separate policy discussion

57:40.71] because it could also affect other town businesses

57:43.71] and small businesses in the community.

57:48.37] So this slide translates the estimates to individual homes.

57:52.37] So a resident, you could locate your current assessed value on your tax bill

57:57.37] and read the annual approximate savings just with phase one alone.

58:01.55] Savings are proportional, of course, to your value

58:03.80] because every property is taxed at the same rate.

58:05.79] We have a single tax rate.

58:07.87] So on average, a $400,000 home would save about $1,300 per year,

58:12.95] a $600,000 home about $2,000 per year,

58:16.11] and a $1,000,000 home about $3,500 per year.

58:21.09] The average single family home currently assessed at $662,000

58:25.64] would save about $2,300.

58:29.11] $21,000 worth of goods to cover that.

58:31.11] As a rule of thumb, that's about $350 per $100,000 of assessed value.

58:36.11] What's your kickback?

58:37.11] And approximately 9 in 10 single family homes would save $1,600 or more.

58:42.05] At full build out, the figure grows to about $870 per $100,000 by FY2035.

58:48.67] So as I mentioned earlier, community benefits agreements

58:52.44] are an integral part of this process moving forward.

58:55.98] So this slide outlines the elements of a well-structured agreement

59:00.94] based on agreements compiled by the Lincoln Institute of Land Policy,

59:04.01] which is a nonprofit think tank focused on land use across the country

59:08.42] for items related to housing and economic development.

59:13.01] First and foremost, it's a checklist on a position.

59:15.01] On the left are substantive commitments.

59:18.23] Full taxation on the floor with a floor on the minimum value,

59:22.61] which protects the town if equipment values decline faster than expected.

59:28.16] Community funds paid at defined milestones.

59:31.48] Noise limits.

59:32.83] Water and energy commitments.

59:35.05] Set design standards.

59:37.20] Emergency planning.

59:38.48] Equipment and training for our first responders.

59:40.48] And a decommissioning plan if the facility is ever vacated.

59:44.30] And the right side addresses enforcement,

59:46.30] which is equally important as it was mentioned earlier by a speaker.

59:49.62] Certainly an agreement is only as valuable as the town's ability to enforce it.

59:53.71] So as mentioned earlier with some examples, additional examples are

59:56.71] letters of credit or performance bonds.

59:58.84] Guaranteed payments if taxes fall.

60:00.00] So if the board chooses to proceed, the next question is what the town would seek in return.

60:11.42] Because the governor's executive order makes a community benefits agreement a precondition for state permits,

60:17.12] the town has meaningful leverage in that negotiation.

60:20.33] And I want to be clear, nothing has been negotiated at this time and these are examples, not the town's position at this time.

60:26.56] Just leave it, dude, just kill it. What you see here are drawn from review of agreements from other host communities across the country.

60:34.07] So using an example, DeForest, Wisconsin secured a minimum assessed value of $1.2 billion for 15 years.

60:40.89] Lancaster, Pennsylvania secured a $20 million community fund.

60:45.86] Other communities have obtained public facilities such as a fire station or water treatment plant,

60:51.17] public safety funding and equipment protections for neighboring property owners, including home value guarantees and noise and light limits,

61:00.64] and commitments on local hiring and school partnerships.

61:04.03] One important distinction is that several of these agreements were also paired with tax incentives.

61:08.42] So these communities were exchanging something that we are not offering here in Sutton.

61:12.15] And with this benefits agreement, any terms would be made public before any action of town meeting.

61:17.52] So the second component is zoning. Our current zoning bylaws do not clearly address data centers,

61:26.09] which obviously creates uncertainty for the town and for any applicant.

61:30.13] So based on model bylaws compiled by the Lincoln Institute, an amendment would need to accomplish three things.

61:36.07] First, it would need to define the use, clarifying and distinguishing large-scale data centers from ordinary accessory rooms

61:42.85] and excluding any cryptocurrency mining, which has different operating characteristics.

61:49.27] Second, it would establish where and how the use is permitted by special permit within a district or overlay that has adequate utilities

61:56.47] with the planning board as the special permit granting authority and peer review funded 100% by the applicant.

62:03.08] Third, it would set performance standards for noise, lighting, setbacks and screening, wastewater and wastewater,

62:10.32] emergency response, traffic and decommissioning plans backed by financial security.

62:15.81] Adoption ultimately requires a planning board public hearing and a two-thirds town meeting vote.

62:21.00] And I just want to note that this bylaw would apply to any future data center proposal,

62:25.04] so it has value obviously regardless of the board's decision and the community's decision on this project.

62:31.92] So if we move forward, due diligence would need to cover six areas.

62:35.61] First is value and tax. Every fiscal estimate depends on what the facilities were.

62:39.71] So an independent appraisal of the project working alongside a board of assessor should come early.

62:45.69] That includes how the equipment is classified and appreciated

62:48.88] and whether the agreement should include a minimum value or payment floor.

62:53.24] Second is the legal structure. Legal counsel would need to advise on the terms

62:57.49] and enforceability of a community benefits agreement and the approach to zoning.

63:02.70] Third is power and grid. We need the interconnection timeline,

63:07.04] confirmation of funding for grid upgrades and details on backup generation and fuel storage.

63:12.37] Fourth is water and environment. Water supply and reuse, wastewater, stormwater

63:19.02] and as mentioned earlier, mass DEP protocols are due by the end of December.

63:23.50] Fifth is site and neighborhood impacts, including noise, lighting, traffic,

63:28.38] screening and phasing of the project.

63:31.18] Sixth is public safety. Fire suppression, hazardous materials,

63:35.87] emergency response plans and any training or equipment our departments would require.

63:40.99] Much of the technical work will need to be done by independent peer reviewers funded.

63:45.22] Again, as I mentioned earlier, 100% by the developer through our traditional means,

63:50.34] which is a 53G account.

63:54.18] So this is the general timeline for that work over the next several months organized in three parallel tracks.

64:01.80] The community benefits agreement, we would like to begin in-depth discussions and engage council now,

64:07.69] negotiate terms over the winter and publish draft terms in the spring

64:10.87] with any agreement contingent upon town meeting approval.

64:13.84] On zoning, the planning board would need to begin scoping now,

64:17.35] preparing a draft over the winter and holding their public sessions in a hearing in the spring,

64:21.35] leading to a town vote at a future town meeting if the planning board needs to also take additional time to develop the bylaw.

64:27.93] On the technical and fiscal side, we would ask the developer to fund an independent peer review,

64:33.33] obtain detailed information on power, water, equipment and building locations

64:38.65] and report their findings to the town.

64:41.79] This schedule also allows us to incorporate the state's protocols

64:45.59] in the municipal guidance document that I mentioned earlier, which as I mentioned is due by the end of December.

64:50.30] We would then return to the board with updates at each stage and provide the board and the community with direction as that information comes in.

64:59.12] So before I open it up to the board for your discussion,

65:04.27] I want to also describe how the community can be a part of this process if we proceed tonight.

65:10.20] So we've created a contact email address for the community.

65:13.84] It's [email protected] for questions, comments about the proposal and the project.

65:20.69] And we'll be launching a project web page at SuttonMA.gov/datacenter.

65:25.02] That page will post any session dates, presentation materials and answers to common questions.

65:30.94] We also intend to hold several public information sessions over the coming months.

65:35.20] These sessions are an opportunity as mentioned by the chair for residents to understand the proposal, ask questions and share their feedback.

65:42.18] And just as importantly, we also want to make sure what we hear will help shape the town's priorities for a community benefits agreement

65:49.99] and the standards in a zoning bylaw before either reaches a planning board hearing or town meeting.

65:55.52] As I mentioned, any draft terms would be published in advance and the bylaw would require a two-thirds town meeting vote.

66:01.92] And we will provide updates at every stage of this process.

66:06.69] So the Board of Town Meeting can, of course, as we roll through this process, can end that process at any point.

66:12.64] So I want to open it up to the board for your discussion and any comments or questions you may have.

66:36.11] Okay, so who on the board wants to go first?

66:40.18] I'll go first. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

66:41.78] Austin, thank you for presenting this information.

66:44.68] I think it's very important that we recognize that this is just a preliminary step.

66:49.28] You received the call a couple of weeks ago.

66:51.98] And as the town is obligated to do, if there's any investment opportunities, someone looking to develop a parcel,

66:58.58] that's the process we go through and we don't discriminate against any applicants.

67:02.48] And obviously, with every submission, it has to be vetted.

67:06.90] I will say, for the record, for everyone in the audience, I am in terms of the members on this board.

67:11.90] I live in closest proximity to this site.

67:14.60] I am six houses away from the parcel.

67:17.55] I am down in Wilkes.

67:19.10] So this is my neighborhood.

67:22.00] And I will say that at this point in the process, we need to know more.

67:28.98] I think it's clear.

67:36.41] Okay, we're not going to address the members of the public at this point,

67:38.91] because again, this is a closed meeting for our purpose to discuss what came before us.

67:44.33] All right, so anyways, so I think you laid out the important facts that based on the concerns that I've seen on,

67:51.11] you know, social media, we definitely have concerns about water.

67:54.61] I know it was mentioned in there that they're talking about a closed loop non-portable water.

67:58.91] You know, we need to have that articulated water.

68:01.71] So, I mean, on power sources under the governor's executive order, they have to pay for all upgrades.

68:07.11] They're responsible for developing their plans.

68:09.61] Where are they in that process?

68:11.31] Will they meet the timeline articulated that you showed on this slide?

68:16.41] Will they be able to have it ready to go?

68:18.51] If not, obviously, that's going to throw this timeline out of whack.

68:23.66] Noise concerns.

68:25.54] Again, I understand.

68:28.18] I've seen enough of the videos that have been shared about the noise.

68:31.58] But how accurate is that?

68:36.22] You know, obviously, obviously, obviously, if you're going to set a microphone up in immediate close proximity to any building,

68:44.92] they're going to make noise.

68:46.12] But how far removed were these sound surveys taken?

68:49.92] So, I think ultimately that's a very important component as well.

68:53.32] We need to do a sound heading of the process.

68:59.52] I think also, one of the things that would be very important for us to do as a board,

69:04.35] is I think we should look to see if we could visit some of these sites.

69:07.68] I think site visitation would be very key.

69:10.08] They maybe have opportunity to speak to the residents who are our butters.

69:13.80] So that way we can actually talk to them rather than listening on stuff,

69:18.00] conjecture that was shared on Facebook.

69:20.23] So, ultimately, we have to do our due diligence.

69:24.16] We have to know the facts.

69:25.98] Because ultimately, we are in the job of making decisions that are going to impact this community,

69:31.58] both in the short term and the long term.

69:33.58] So, ultimately, we need to make sure that if this does go forward,

69:40.93] that it is going to be beneficial.

69:43.23] So, I'd like to give kudos to the resident that came up and talked about the protections.

69:48.13] I think that's definitely key, right?

69:50.43] If you're going to end up in court, you're never going to get anywhere.

69:53.43] So, ultimately, I think our bylaws need to have teeth.

69:56.72] We have to make sure that we have enforceable tools that basically could either shut this down,

70:03.47] penalize, or hold the developers accountable.

70:07.32] For me, some of the key issues when I've read about other sites is that abandonment issue.

70:12.10] Obviously, we all know technology advances.

70:14.50] So, the last thing we want to do is have them come in and make this mega site and then walk away from it.

70:18.90] So, we have to have protections, guarantees that if that does happen, that the taxpayers can be compensated.

70:24.90] I would also like to make sure we do have that, as you mentioned, that taxable floor.

70:29.10] So, that way, even if they attempt to depreciate below the taxable level, that way we could secure the minimum.

70:34.53] And, for me, I like the strict, clear statement that the project has to be fully pay reviewed,

70:42.26] and this has to be paid for by the developer.

70:44.76] I don't think if the developers want to come forward this and present this to the voters if we ever get to town meeting on this,

70:51.06] I don't think it would be fair if the taxpayers have to shoulder the burden of the expense of vetting their proposal.

70:57.15] So, I think, in terms of what we should look for initially, is we need to make sure that the developers are willing to understand

71:04.59] they have to present these peer reviewed documents at their own expense.

71:09.39] And, I'm also going to agree, I think there was another presenter that mentioned the need for legal expertise.

71:15.62] We're going to have to make sure that we do not engage in our normal town council,

71:20.82] that we're going to have to go out and find someone who is specialized.

71:23.02] And, maybe, if possible, we might want to put the onerous on the developer as well,

71:28.38] you know, to give us some compensation offset potential legal expenses.

71:31.89] So, yeah, I think, obviously, this is just a proposal.

71:37.12] We need to make the facts, and once the facts are clear, then we can make an informed decision.

71:41.43] All right, thank you, Jesse.

71:43.20] Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

71:43.97] All right, who's next?

71:44.89] Yeah.

71:46.68] Just want to get some context first.

71:48.13] So, are we, is a town under any NDAs?

71:51.03] No.

71:51.84] We haven't been.

71:52.62] No.

71:52.98] Yeah.

71:53.38] And then, a little more context.

71:55.29] So, has anybody in the board been in meetings with Unified, with the town, with planning, with Unified?

72:04.12] This is the first time, like, to my understanding, this is the first time with all.

72:07.22] Correct.

72:07.52] Correct.

72:09.66] Okay.

72:10.44] So, I think, a couple things as I think about this.

72:14.57] The letter we got the other night from the department heads, that kind of made me take notice.

72:21.11] I mean, normally, you know, you could think about the need for this relative to our budget needs, etc.,

72:25.96] but when I saw the letter from the department heads and the superintendent, that was meaningful to me.

72:31.06] And I'm just curious, on your team, right, obviously, Austin, you put a ton of work into the financials of modeling it out.

72:36.58] I think you've done a great job of looking at the upside and the benefits.

72:40.39] Who on your team is the subject matter expert on this?

72:43.27] Do you have a good subject matter expert?

72:45.37] Because it's a really complicated thing, but when you think about the aspects of this, who do you have?

72:50.46] So, we had, I would first and foremost say that I think we have a team approach to also understanding this.

72:56.22] So, I wouldn't point to one specific person, but we're pulling from everyone, both in public safety in our land use department,

73:03.14] so including our community development director, building commissioner, fire chief, police chief.

73:08.02] On the finance side, our principal assessor and our board of assessors.

73:12.20] So, we're using a collaborative team approach to understand this.

73:17.05] And then certainly, as you mentioned, I've certainly done a lot of work on this as well,

73:20.85] but trying to involve every municipal department that this could potentially impact or touch throughout the phase of this project.

73:27.35] Okay. Well, I'll come back to that in a minute, but I think when I look at this, there's the benefits, right?

73:32.10] There's financial upside, which we looked at.

73:33.60] And to me, in my mind, if we were to consider this, it has to be, the financial impact has to be significant.

73:39.53] And we can talk about what that means, but like really, I think one gentleman mentioned,

73:43.19] if you look across the country right now, there are 41 ballot initiatives across the country around data centers.

73:49.22] They all got voted down. If you look at Texas, for example, Texas was a primary location for data centers.

73:55.88] Now, they are on the precipice of a moratorium.

73:59.08] I would say the value then for Massachusetts, ironically, Massachusetts is now a data center friendly state, ironically, right?

74:06.43] So, you'd think that the value of this project just went way up.

74:09.69] So, again, if we were to consider this, the dollar should be significant and they should be assured, right?

74:14.09] If you think about what happens in the credit cycle, what happens with the equity cycle on these kinds of things.

74:20.59] If you think about the depreciation, there's a lot of moving pieces, but I would say that the dollars have to be assured.

74:25.69] And that also ties into decommissioning and just surety bonds and other kinds of things.

74:30.29] I would also think there should be dollars up front.

74:32.59] And I would imagine, given the economics in the macro sense, there should be dollars up front on this.

74:37.09] So if that's on the dollar side, I think where I would really focus if we were to move forward on this is some of the operational issues.

74:45.36] And there's a long list people have been talking about.

74:47.26] I think I've got three big ones.

74:50.16] One is in water and there's the consumption of water, just the usage, right?

74:54.12] Obviously, we don't want to drain the aquifers, can't drain the aquifers.

74:57.52] I know I would say great job thinking through the ways to use gray water or reclaimed or anything.

75:04.52] But I think there's the thing, we don't want to drain the aquifers.

75:08.20] The other big thing is contamination.

75:09.74] So, you know, we don't want to obviously contaminate the water.

75:12.83] PFAS was mentioned.

75:14.63] There are technologies, right?

75:15.83] So if you look at the next generation, I know in the video chips, for example, they're going to have on-chip cooling.

75:21.33] So there's technology solutions, dollars and money can solve a lot of these things.

75:25.73] But I'd be really, we have to be really diligent to understand what the implications are for water usage.

75:32.14] And I think the other key thing, you can't just look at it being closed loop.

75:34.85] You have to look at the total system.

75:36.15] So there are technologies that require more money to build it.

75:39.85] They require more money to probably power those things.

75:42.45] But that is one thing I'd be really curious to know if our, you know, the people that are pushing this forward,

75:48.49] what actual technology and we will need engineers with the right levels of expertise to assess the water aspect.

75:57.49] There's the, do we know, do we have any idea about the power generation?

76:01.97] I would guess that the power would be what's called behind the fence power.

76:05.67] So I would guess we'd see turbines, gas turbines.

76:11.09] Yeah. So, so I think, and I can certainly go back to what we know now, but they've had very preliminary discussions with ISO New England,

76:24.23] which controls the power grid for New England and for the Northeast to secure the necessary power.

76:30.23] I think also within what they're exploring is also due to the state's requirements for clean energy.

76:37.67] So I think they're looking at any potential clean energy, whether it's solar or any other power generation for that facility.

76:45.13] But certainly for first and foremost, they're not proposing a onsite generation at this time.

76:52.00] So they would need to procure the power, whether it's through our power purchase agreement at the regional operator level.

76:58.20] I would love to see somebody do the math to see how many square miles of solar panels are required to power something like this,

77:05.16] because it's more than the, it would be more than the square mileage of Sutton.

77:10.01] But so I'll just make an assumption.

77:12.34] This is a key thing as we go forward, if we go forward on this, is to understand what the actual power would be,

77:16.84] because I don't, my own speculation on this, and again, this is pure speculation,

77:20.84] is that there would be onsite power and I would guess it would be gas turbines.

77:26.25] And if that's the case, I mean, if it's turbines, you're going to have the, you're going to be burning plenty of hydrocarbons, right?

77:31.85] And there's exhaust off of that.

77:34.04] Now that's, there's technologies, there's scrubbers, things like this.

77:36.64] But if you think about first the water, then I think about the air quality, right?

77:39.97] So there's air quality on the power generation.

77:43.63] And that also applies, by the way, to the presumed diesel backup generator.

77:47.77] So there's just the impact of the air.

77:51.03] I think the biggest thing to me is the noise.

77:54.70] And I think there's, someone mentioned there's high frequency and low frequency.

77:58.43] And generally speaking, the high frequency with the right dollars, right?

78:02.46] If you put enough money into the site and into the construction building,

78:06.06] there are techniques and technologies to create some barriers for the high frequency noises that can be muted.

78:12.67] My biggest concern is around the low frequency and, you know, some of the inaudible things, right?

78:17.96] So you might have a situation where a human can't necessarily hear it, but, you know, you could feel it, right?

78:23.50] There's just, I mean, the harmonics and the low frequency harmonics, it's, in this, you know,

78:28.00] if you look at the frameworks here, this is this thing that to me is less, least known.

78:33.46] And it's one that I just would want to feel really comfortable with it.

78:36.36] We understand what, you know, what is possible.

78:39.30] So those might, you know, obviously there's other kinds of issues.

78:42.23] Give you a couple of miscellaneous things for a moment.

78:45.19] Jesse mentioned this, if you were to move forward with this, to your question,

78:50.68] our subject matter experts and all in all respect for our subject matter experts,

78:56.03] I don't believe we have the subject matter expertise in this building or in the town

79:00.05] to necessarily do the engineering and understand the issues.

79:03.82] So I think we would have to have outside engineers help craft a bylaw on this.

79:09.37] And so to the extent that there are professional fees required for that,

79:14.16] you know, my view is that the property owners should provide money in some form to cover the town for that.

79:22.64] So we can have an objective professional project done on this.

79:27.63] Other thing, just you think about the people in the neighborhood.

79:30.18] And, you know, my colleagues on my right lives down there.

79:33.06] I don't want to have the people, right?

79:34.56] Like I live across town, right?

79:36.05] So up and over a hill, you know, but I would want to make sure that people that are proximate to this,

79:41.41] especially with their low frequency harmonics,

79:43.01] understand the impact to their houses, to their quality of life.

79:46.91] Really, I mean, even before we talk about the dollar impact on their property values,

79:51.70] it's just the quality of life.

79:53.00] And again, that again, my big thing would be probably the low frequency harmonics.

79:57.74] But so that's there's those things, right?

80:03.87] And I think the other thing, you know, seeing some of our neighbors from Melbourne here,

80:07.86] I want to be a good neighbor, right?

80:09.06] So I recognize this is on the milk on the Melbourne border.

80:11.66] I know there's probably some grafting folks that are interested.

80:13.96] So again, I just would be curious how this would affect them.

80:17.86] But those are a few of my key things.

80:19.16] But anyhow, I'll pass the pass the mic over to any of my colleagues who want to chime in.

80:24.75] Thank you.

80:29.79] This is a lot, but I'm going to go backwards a little bit.

80:34.80] So this isn't the first time we've had a potential project come before us.

80:40.65] That hasn't been an allowed use.

80:43.33] So in reviewing some of the planning board minutes,

80:46.39] I had some minutes from September 14, 2026.

80:50.02] And in the notices of interest,

80:52.12] it talked about Oxbridge and Northbridge doing some moratoriums on data centers.

80:57.51] And in that section of the minutes,

81:00.63] the September 8, 2026 executive order from the governor was shared with the board members

81:05.73] by the department staff for the planning board.

81:09.86] At that meeting, it was noted that Sutton has a permissive bylaw

81:13.56] and use that is not listed is not allowed.

81:17.00] Therefore, unless the zoning enforcement officer,

81:20.02] which in our community is our building inspector,

81:23.42] feels data centers fit into one of the current uses allowed in Sutton,

81:27.12] there is no need to panic and react without full knowledge.

81:31.19] She'll be providing the board and residents with information

81:34.19] from reputable sources about data centers and their impacts

81:38.09] so that if a proposed project comes forward,

81:40.89] the board and the town can make a more informed decision.

81:44.60] And data centers are not a protected use that all communities must allow.

81:49.72] So the process that the town of Sutton has had for a long time

81:54.02] and which should be being followed

81:56.38] is for other applicants who have come forward for something that's not allowed in our bylaws.

82:01.71] They usually get on the agenda for the planning board

82:04.71] and they come before the board and they talk about what they're looking to do

82:08.61] and what they think the benefit would be for the community.

82:11.62] And then they ask, would the board be willing to sponsor

82:16.64] and prepare a zoning change that would go before town meeting?

82:22.27] The planning board at that point will discuss that

82:24.87] and decide whether or not they feel it's worth them putting their name on the warrant article

82:30.53] or they kick it back to the applicant recommending that they do a citizen's petition,

82:35.83] in which case they only have to get 10 signatures of support by registered voters

82:40.53] and then they're the ones that kind of work to get that on the town warrant

82:46.19] and brought to the voters.

82:49.05] That's not what's happening here.

82:51.13] That's not what's happening here.

82:53.35] So in May, Central Mass Regional Planning,

83:00.02] which is the planning department for 25 towns in Central Mass,

83:06.58] had sponsored a data center information session that was available to participants on Zoom.

83:13.37] It wasn't in person.

83:15.07] At that meeting, they had, I think her name was Marianne Hutchins

83:20.61] from the Lincoln Institute of Land Policy

83:23.11] and she had an enormous amount of experience in Washington with different land things.

83:29.12] And she had various recommendations about how communities could protect

83:35.10] and get prepared for this because it's coming, right?

83:38.10] We all knew it was coming.

83:39.50] And the first thing she said is you want to have your bylaw drafted

83:44.14] before the data center is on your front step.

83:47.96] And then the second presenter at that meeting was the planning director from the town of Mansfield.

83:54.46] And so Mansfield has successfully put a data center bylaw on their zoning laws

84:01.92] and they limit data centers to two megawatts.

84:05.12] They opted to not choose a moratorium.

84:07.62] They opted to have a little bit of leeway

84:10.52] because they know that everybody's doing computing

84:15.11] and that these are going to be needed for us,

84:17.61] but they wanted to have some control over the sizing.

84:21.01] I also believe that the largest data center in Massachusetts right now is only 30 megawatts

84:27.72] and this is going to be 900.

84:29.72] So as of right now, I think it's the third or fourth largest one that would be in the country,

84:34.25] although there's several at the 4,000 megawatt, 7,000 megawatt in communities,

84:39.45] like you mentioned, Jim, Texas and whatever.

84:42.75] So I think by having now this large, large, large, large project in front of us

84:54.30] with a lot of financial backing on their part,

84:56.80] they have deep pockets and they can do a lot of analysis,

84:59.90] it puts us at a disadvantage to create a bylaw at this juncture.

85:05.93] So if we're going to run at the same time creating a community benefits

85:13.75] and then doing technical review at the same time we're drafting the zoning bylaw,

85:19.17] that almost feels like it's a done deal and we're going to do a bylaw

85:23.07] that's going to allow a 900 megawatt data center in our community.

85:26.91] It's not allowing us to be mindfully looking at do we want a moratorium?

85:33.92] Do we want to limit the megawatts?

85:36.42] Do we need to do more research and get more information about what's been happening?

85:43.25] So you can go online in Loudon, Virginia, which is the data center alley.

85:48.95] They've learned a lot since they started doing this at the turn of the century.

85:52.65] They started in the 1990s, data centers have changed.

85:56.85] I think they have 233 data centers, they have 17,000 jobs created.

86:02.85] There's other data on here that goes from the 1990s to 2026,

86:06.55] but on the back of their handout it says top considerations for data center development.

86:11.95] And it's saying at the outset it was difficult for Loudon County to foresee

86:15.95] what the data center industry would become,

86:18.35] how infrastructure would evolve and how it would impact residents over time.

86:22.55] As data center density has increased, residents raise concerns about a wide variety of impacts

86:27.75] and here are the top 10 lessons they learned.

86:30.65] I'm not going to read them all on camera because we can all just Google this and get this.

86:34.95] But any bylaw that we create usually starts at the planning board level.

86:43.58] And then they have multiple public hearings and we're all allowed to chime in.

86:48.48] And then at the end of the day, it goes to town meeting.

86:52.07] And town meeting is open in our town to every registered voter.

86:55.57] We don't have representative town meeting, one registered voter, one vote,

87:00.03] two-thirds majority for a zoning bylaw.

87:03.39] So in all honesty for me, all of the detail is white noise

87:10.21] because it's not allowed in our town.

87:18.24] Unless the zoning officer wants to rule that it fits in another,

87:22.81] the first step for this is our community has to determine what the bylaw is going to be.

87:29.10] And it's not driven by what a potential developer in our community would like to see here.

87:35.69] It's what we as the residents are willing to have here.

87:39.49] Are we willing to have a smaller one that would generate some revenue

87:44.19] to help with our foreseen fiscal cliff and then maybe a small override to balance?

87:50.89] You know, we have a lot of things.

87:53.59] The money issue muddies the process.

87:55.99] The fact that the developers on our doorstep muddies the process.

87:59.91] And it doesn't give us the opportunity to mindfully think about the pros and cons

88:06.97] because we have all this extra pressure.

88:09.57] And the fact that we're going to try to do all this for a Maytown meeting

88:13.77] through a holiday, through a budget season that we're trying to--

88:17.27] now we are 300,000 short from having a balanced budget.

88:21.43] It doesn't seem like when you're rushed, you make the right decision.

88:26.76] But it could be a decision that we have to live with forever.

88:29.86] So what the woman from Mansfield who presented

88:36.03] and Central Mass Regional Planning sadly does not videotape their Zoom sessions.

88:42.63] However, both Trish Settles from CMRPC and the woman from the Lincoln Center

88:50.32] or the Institute and the woman who was the planning director from Mansfield said,

88:55.32] "A 12 to 18 month moratorium allows your community to mindfully do the first step

89:01.75] and put the bylaw on your books."

89:04.33] So that you now are either inviting the developer to come in and do it

89:11.32] or you're saying your project doesn't match our allowed uses in our bylaw.

89:19.12] Now, I just quickly lost my train of thought.

89:23.97] Yeah, I mean, I guess that's where I basically stand.

89:27.83] Oh, I know what I was going to say.

89:29.92] At that point, if at that point the developer doesn't like what's left in the bylaw,

89:35.21] maybe it's a 50 megawatt data center and it's going to give us the revenue we need,

89:39.51] but they really wanted the 900, they can always do a citizen's petition.

89:44.62] And that's the way we have the rights here for our community to lead itself.

89:49.70] So, I mean, that's all I'm going to say.

89:51.50] I'm willing to, you know, dig into numbers.

89:53.70] But right now, I think we've got the cart before the horse.

89:57.63] Thank you, Christine.

90:03.92] Danny, everything to say?

90:08.35] A lot of what I was going to say is already been said so I won't rehash it,

90:13.54] but technology is constantly changing.

90:17.46] And when I go back and I just learned about this on Thursday,

90:20.30] so when I went back and looked at a lot of the stuff from Loudoun County

90:24.88] and some other places, the constant in what all of those places in Texas

90:31.33] and Loudoun County have found is that every two years what they had agreed upon,

90:37.91] both in size, capacity, and usage of water and noise levels has changed.

90:44.65] And the idea that we're projecting things out for, you know, 6, 8, 10 years on technology

90:53.85] that is constantly changing, I think, requires a little more due diligence.

91:01.90] But the two things that I think are important.

91:04.77] Well, let me go back before I say the two things.

91:07.97] I don't like that noise is absent from the governor's executive order.

91:17.46] I'll leave it at that because of both the high frequency and low frequency noise.

91:24.69] But back to the two things, educated people are required to run this town

91:38.88] and run this country, and when we say we the people,

91:44.19] we the people have to be educated.

91:46.08] And I appreciate some of the facts that people brought up tonight.

91:51.46] And I encourage everyone to stay involved and not only stay involved

91:56.83] and show up and scream and interrupt other people, but show up with the knowledge

92:06.24] of what has changed in technology and voice your opinion.

92:11.24] Everything here is going to be voted on, both the town meeting

92:13.91] and various other meetings as the bylaws change, show up and voice your opinion

92:19.19] in an educated manner.

92:20.93] And then lastly, if you don't want this, we all know what the budget is.

92:31.55] Understand that we're all willing and have to be willing to pay more

92:37.08] if we're going to keep these projects out.

92:40.17] So, okay.

92:41.37] I'm just, I'm just saying this.

92:44.77] >> Kill it now!

92:45.97] Just kill it now!

92:47.57] >> Don't go to police station.

92:48.77] That is all my budget.

92:50.59] >> Yep.

92:51.72] Now, let him speak, please.

92:53.84] Let him finish.

92:54.80] >> I'm good.

92:55.81] >> He's not giving you a question.

92:58.19] >> I thought he was.

93:00.02] >> All right.

93:03.45] Thanks, Dan.

93:06.53] Okay.

93:07.53] So, you know, as everybody's, I agree with my colleagues on this.

93:10.78] One of the things that I'm very concerned about is the same thing that you're all concerned

93:15.63] about, all the same items of, you know, about, especially about abandonment

93:20.74] is a really big issue in a lot of places.

93:22.94] That was the number one issue that I think you said, Christine,

93:25.54] you took back from the meeting with CMRPC.

93:29.79] EMFs is a big concern for me, the sound and the different frequencies,

93:36.42] the electricity usage, the water.

93:38.81] And if we ever did go that far, we would have to have some sort of shirty bond

93:43.90] to make sure that if there was abandonment, that the town's not left with the cost of that.

93:50.66] So, as a, you know, as a community, we need to discuss these issues.

93:55.58] We need to have the capacity, whether we agree or disagree with each other,

94:00.25] to be able to solve these issues together, and we may not agree.

94:04.97] But I think from the standpoint of, from my perspective is,

94:08.47] is I have a really strong dose of skepticism and concern about this project.

94:15.11] And my goal, you know, I'm not going to rehash all the things that the board members brought up,

94:20.54] but my goal is to make sure that this process, as the chair, is,

94:25.46] is remains as transparent as possible and encourage people,

94:28.96] just as Dan was saying, to participate in this process.

94:32.36] At the end of the day, we do need to, like, I am very concerned.

94:35.61] So one of the things that concerns me most is that whenever you're in a situation financially,

94:41.00] and you're doing things based on fear of the financials, you make really bad decisions.

94:45.50] I know that happens in the home, it happens everywhere.

94:49.06] So we need to, you know, this is a long-term generational impact,

94:54.77] and we need to really make sure that we're not allowing our financial situation

94:59.43] to cause us to make really bad decisions, that this cannot drive our decisioning.

95:05.05] The decisioning has to come from not just what's going to benefit the town,

95:09.02] or what's going to benefit the developer, it's what's going to benefit the community.

95:13.38] And that's super important for me, that that comes first, that absolutely has to come first, you know.

95:21.06] Do I like the fact that this has come to us? Absolutely not.

95:24.00] I remember when Austin told me that this was coming, I was, you know, like I said,

95:29.07] this is a third rural issue that is not going to, it's going to be a very tough conversation.

95:34.88] But one thing that I've committed to on being on this board, and particularly as Chairman,

95:38.88] is to be able to lead us through these tough conversations that we need to have,

95:42.28] because we have a lot of them that are coming, that are in our midst right now and coming to us.

95:47.87] So I ask that we stay civil through this process.

95:50.73] I think people are making assumptions that the board was on board with this,

95:53.77] and we were all ready to tie up and go forward with this.

95:56.07] And as you're finding out, we have the same skepticism and concerns that you do,

96:00.15] and you need to work with us, you need to work with us,

96:03.45] and we need to work with you to make sure that this process goes through.

96:06.75] And I agree with Christine that we need to step back,

96:09.50] and we need to, you know, really look at the zoning,

96:12.57] because this is really what's going to drive this whole thing,

96:15.87] and make sure that we're building a zoning by-law that works for the town, not works for the developer,

96:21.10] because I think that's the worst place to start from, is what their needs are, and we need to understand that.

96:26.51] But also as, you know, a leader, I have to look at all aspects of this,

96:31.51] and the financial piece is something that we need to understand,

96:34.31] but it doesn't, it can't drive the full conversation.

96:36.71] But I have to, as fiduciary, we are accountable as a board, Austin's responsible,

96:42.30] we are accountable for the overall fiduciary and accounting of the town.

96:47.70] You're accountable to the voters.

96:49.85] And so one of the things that we have to understand is the full picture of this.

96:54.05] Now, like I said, we cannot be making decisions based on the fear of an override or the fear or whatever.

97:01.18] We need to look at this holistically and get feedback from the residents and understand this situation.

97:06.68] So there's a lot here. We're just at the very beginning.

97:10.14] We wanted to start this process in public as soon as possible.

97:14.17] Sir, I want to ask you to stop. If you speak one more time, I'm going to ask you to leave,

97:17.60] because we really need to be able to have this conversation in the community,

97:21.40] and you just interrupting does not help the process.

97:24.40] In fact, it's quite rude and not becoming of how I want to act as a town.

97:32.56] You don't care about people's health. All you care about is money, budget.

97:36.56] Well, you're going to ask, you're going to get your story.

97:38.26] Yep. I knew you were going to come to that point.

97:43.49] It's unfortunate, because I really want...

97:47.10] It's unfortunate, because I really want to know you part of the conversation.

97:49.70] And when someone can't engage in a way that's going to be productive, it doesn't help any of us.

97:55.13] And he was really trying to interrupt us at the very beginning,

97:58.13] so we couldn't even have this conversation.

97:59.53] And people are probably making assumptions about what we're thinking as a board,

98:03.63] and nobody even knows what we're thinking about as a board.

98:05.53] So I want you to understand that we're all residents here,

98:08.46] and we care about this town deeply.

98:10.16] That's why I volunteer my time to do this.

98:12.92] So I want you to understand that we have to work together to get this solved,

98:17.44] and we have many other issues we have to work together.

98:19.34] If we're going to be fighting with each other, we're never going to get there.

98:23.78] So I just ask that we continue to have civility,

98:27.22] both in the meetings that we have going forward, and on Facebook.

98:31.54] Because having it go off in all these tangents, in this information,

98:36.77] and I want people to really educate themselves before they decide to vote at our next spring,

98:42.65] if it makes it to springtime meeting, and if it even happens in springtime meeting.

98:46.35] So I want people to be educated.

98:49.29] So I just wanted to say that, because it's very frustrating to, you know, for interruptions like that.

98:55.75] So I think this entire board has, just speaking on my behalf,

99:00.34] when I'm hearing from the board, we all have concerns.

99:02.84] Austin has concerns.

99:04.34] We need to go through the due diligence of this.

99:06.54] We would do this for any other project.

99:08.53] There's nothing guaranteed here.

99:10.13] This is a process.

99:11.72] I do not want to rush this, to Christine's point, if we get to Mary,

99:15.52] and this just feels like this is, like, it should be pushed out.

99:18.69] I do not want to be pressed by time.

99:20.74] Time becomes an enemy if we're trying to push things.

99:24.42] So this is kind of what.

99:27.74] So Austin, I just have a question for you.

99:29.24] So what is the next step right now?

99:31.04] So from my perspective, and what I'm kind of hearing on the board is,

99:34.34] I think the by-law is probably the most important thing to get moving forward,

99:40.95] the discussions around by-laws.

99:42.75] And that could be a host of different ways that we're going to look at this, right?

99:45.95] It could be more time.

99:47.65] It could be all kinds of things.

99:48.55] But that discussion needs to start happening probably with the planning board, correct?

99:52.25] Yes.

99:52.95] As part of that, there are public hearings.

99:54.75] Because to me, my gut says, looking at the audience here and everything,

99:57.85] I think we have to have education probably from the town put out on the operational aspects.

[100:03.45] We've got the financial aspects.

[100:04.55] I think we need a good FAQ and document on the water, noise.

[100:07.75] It's all of the operational things.

[100:09.75] And then I think we have to have good open public forums, public hearings,

[100:15.08] probably in the auditorium on a weekend or something when people can come.

[100:19.74] But that to me would seem to be something to do sooner rather than later in this process.

[100:23.94] That's a reaction.

[100:24.54] And of course, I would ask that any meeting that is posted,

[100:27.14] it's identified as whether it is a public hearing or not.

[100:30.54] So this was a presentation.

[100:32.84] This was not a public hearing.

[100:34.74] But we will put forward public hearings to give the residents an opportunity to be heard.

[100:40.36] Because again, it's important.

[100:42.52] So I am sure that will be clarified.

[100:44.62] It will be documented.

[100:46.02] And it will give ample time for everybody, both those who may be opposed

[100:49.82] and anyone who may be for it to come up in step and have their opinions heard.

[100:55.44] All right.

[100:56.40] Is there anything else by anybody?

[100:57.50] I'm just going to reiterate that we have to be able to make a bylaw

[101:02.24] that isn't really getting a lot of this information on this particular project.

[101:07.37] I think we have to do the bylaw first.

[101:10.11] We relate to the game.

[101:11.64] And now if we draft a bylaw that fits this project,

[101:14.97] then we're really missing the purpose of zoning.

[101:17.77] Zoning is the opportunity for the community to decide what they want to let in and not let in.

[101:22.17] It's not fitting the zoning to something that's on their doorstep.

[101:25.77] I didn't hear anything tonight that suggested otherwise.

[101:35.71] I think I mentioned the need for bylaws.

[101:37.91] Residents mentioned it.

[101:39.01] Austin mentioned it.

[101:40.01] You mentioned it.

[101:41.11] I am sure whatever bylaw is proposed will have teeth.

[101:44.01] And it will not be tailored to any project,

[101:46.11] but will be tailored in a way that will protect the interests of the town as a whole.

[101:51.51] All right.

[101:52.39] Anything else?

[101:53.55] All right.

[101:53.85] So the next step is you'll communicate out to us and the community when that process starts.

[101:59.31] Absolutely.

[101:59.97] All right.

[102:01.51] Thank you.

[102:03.76] Thank you, everybody, for showing up tonight to be part of this conversation

[102:07.03] and listen in and start educating yourselves.

[102:11.49] All right.

[102:12.69] Next on the agenda is proposed community garden at Shaw Farm.

[102:23.37] Do you want to take a five-minute recess?

[102:25.17] No, we're just going to take a five-minute recess at a lot of people.

[102:27.17] I'm not interested in the garden to leave.

[113:38.20] You're going to have to move.

[113:42.56] You ready?

[113:43.26] Okay.

[113:44.06] Okay, we're going to get started.

[113:45.26] Next on the agenda is proposed community garden at Shaw Farm.

[113:48.75] Since the next speaker and I share the same last name, I'm going to recuse myself.

[113:53.01] Thank you.

[113:55.09] First of all, I would like to say that I would have hoped more people would have stayed here

[113:58.69] given the opposition to the data center.

[114:00.89] I would have thought that they would have supported a community garden.

[114:03.49] But anyway, my name is Michael Armarna.

[114:05.45] I'm a senior at Sutton High School.

[114:07.05] And for my senior passion project, I would love to do a community garden at Shaw Farm.

[114:12.00] So the main objectives of this garden would, one, be to create community within the town of Sutton.

[114:19.43] Not only would this give both seniors, middle-aged people, and people from the high school, kids from the high school,

[114:26.21] a spot to work together, learn from, and just gain experience from one another,

[114:31.27] but it would also just create a place where people can garden together, not just in their own backyards.

[114:36.67] Second is improving the health of our town.

[114:39.47] The community gardens would enable residents to grow these natural produce for their families.

[114:45.07] This wouldn't just be for the senior center, although that would be an aspect of the community garden,

[114:50.87] which there would be volunteer work done by either the high school or 4-H or the agricultural trust

[114:56.57] or different groups in town that would donate and volunteer their time toward growing produce for the senior center

[115:02.37] and the Mike Chise Food Pantry.

[115:04.15] So those are some of the key objectives that we have for this community garden.

[115:09.02] And what has been done so far?

[115:10.22] So in September I emailed and met with Mr. Sigonevich to ask for his advice and guidance and discuss the potential for the location in Sutton.

[115:18.32] And we pretty much agreed that Shaw Farm would be viable given the previously proposed turf fields, track, baseball fields, all that stuff,

[115:28.34] which would involve a ton of concrete and other significant development on Shaw Farm.

[115:33.44] I feel like some garden plots would not be the biggest constraint.

[115:37.86] Additionally, I talked to students from school who are also interested in helping and would love to do or be involved in a project like this

[115:45.98] for their senior year passion project and younger students who would like to continue this throughout future years.

[115:52.73] Going off of that, I spoke with Mr. Markucci, who's the internship and passion project coordinator,

[115:58.03] to promote continued involvement with this community garden after I graduate.

[116:03.49] So there's longevity within this community garden. It doesn't just end after one year.

[116:10.33] Recently, I spoke with Representative McKenna, who was very supportive and helpful.

[116:14.59] And he helped generate support from local banks and the Chamber of Commerce in hopes of securing funding.

[116:20.71] On October 30th, just a few weeks ago, we had a fundraising kickoff at Shaw Farm

[116:25.41] where we already received significant promises of funding for this project.

[116:31.21] And after I made a just awareness post on Facebook, we have received an overwhelming amount of support

[116:37.11] from a lot of the same people who are here who would love to volunteer their time and knowledge and other stuff to support this project.

[116:44.26] So I know that the Planning Department addressed some constraints, which I don't necessarily need to read all of them

[116:53.21] because we address it on the next slide, but they're pretty addressable issues that we could have.

[117:01.42] On the next slide, it shows that the constraints are not putting it near or on wetlands or vernal pools,

[117:07.58] which I'm pretty sure on the master plan of the Shaw Farm, it addresses where the wetlands were identified like 10 years ago.

[117:16.96] So it's very easy to not place it on those same wetlands. So that's pretty avoidable constraint.

[117:25.29] Next is an existing water source. I don't know if you can see on the slide,

[117:29.69] but there's an arrow pointing to an existing well near the end point of the road leading up to the Shaw Farm parking lot

[117:37.65] where if we do place the community garden in that post box, which is not on the wetland, the well is in close proximity.

[117:45.54] So it would be accessible. Third is that it doesn't block the current Sun High School cross country course.

[117:51.43] Again, I think this is just a planning thing. I don't it's not like there's any set in stone course for the Sun High School.

[117:59.71] But if there is, we just don't build a community garden in that same spot.

[118:03.45] It's not the community garden doesn't have to be the entire property of Shaw Farm, nor do I expect it to.

[118:09.77] It's just a at least starting off small or just a small start to build community and address food insecurity.

[118:15.28] And then lastly is the question that I would have for the select board, which is would the planning board is would the all natural garden plots fit with the intentions of the Shaw Farm

master plan?

[118:29.50] On the next slide, we are I talk about kind of taking inspiration from the Oxbridge Community Gardens,

[118:35.75] which are very similar to ones that I would aspire to have in town.

[118:41.11] I don't need to read through all of those, but pretty much these are the these are the rules and regulations and policies behind the Oxbridge Community Gardens,

[118:50.95] which include both price and logistics of size and how to schedule it.

[118:57.55] And through the Oxbridge town website, they have an ability for residents and non-residents after resident priority to have family garden plots.

[119:07.88] The most important part of this, I would say, is how it's structured in the town of Oxbridge.

[119:11.88] So it is owned by the town of Oxbridge. It isn't I don't believe a nonprofit.

[119:15.38] I don't think it's a separate nonprofit. I think it's underneath the town of Oxbridge.

[119:18.48] So they have a separate committee of operate of volunteers similar to any of the other committees in town of just like subject matter experts,

[119:29.71] like people mentioned earlier, who have knowledge of gardens and the people who would be willing to volunteer their time towards something like this.

[119:37.30] So I think that we could have something like that similar to Oxbridge does.

[119:41.16] And then I the next steps that I would request from the town are approval of a specific location.

[119:47.85] I know that there's been some concerns over wildlife and native and invasive plants and that can be for sure looked at.

[119:54.65] But I think that Shaw Farm is probably the best location within town and there is no.

[120:00.00] I'm not sure what it could be, but mirroring that of Uxbridge would be a good role model

[120:27.91] for how we could do it. Next is establishing a committee of interested and educated residents

[120:35.04] around the garden. Again, that's just kind of a committee of volunteers to run it. Then

[120:41.59] is adding a page under the town's website. There's been an overwhelming amount of support

[120:45.63] for this and I think that having an official subsection underneath the town's website would

[120:52.63] be good for residents similar to how the data center got its own subset. I think that having

[120:57.53] something like this would also be beneficial. Then my next steps, I have already started

[121:01.95] to but this continues on of that. Talking with Agricultural Trust and Conservation Commission

[121:07.21] for the Environmental Guidance, Whittier's Farm and for their input on location since

[121:12.47] I'm pretty sure that they farm hay at Shaw Farms so we should just talk with them on

[121:18.27] location wise. Next is 4-H and local farms for resources whether it be volunteering or

[121:24.43] compost or manure, other stuff that other groups in town would surely be happy to donate.

[121:30.54] And then various volunteer oriented clubs at Sun High School. This is something I've

[121:35.67] started working on, connecting it to groups like National Honor Society and Community

[121:39.75] Service Learning, which I'm sure would be loving to do a project like this for the

[121:45.75] good of the town. And then last two is involving the senior center and my cheesy food pantry.

[121:50.56] I think the senior center would give seniors involved a third place which is a place outside

[121:57.07] of work or your home which in the seniors case since they're not working would be either

[122:02.10] outside of the senior center or their home. It just gives another place where they can

[122:05.62] connect with other people throughout town, not just their own age but multi or cross

[122:10.80] generational with students from Sun High School and younger people where they could teach

[122:15.63] some guidance on gardening stuff like that. And then lastly, my cheesy food pantry like

[122:19.87] I talked earlier, I think that we should definitely have some donation, a lot of donation

[122:24.67] based gardening going towards the food pantry to address food insecurity. So that is all

[122:30.29] I have. Again, I wish more people would have stayed to hear this because I think they would

[122:34.29] have been in support of it. But if anyone is interested in future updates, I put the

[122:39.73] email up there that I made, which just is a community garden email that will go to

[122:44.73] me for now but could go to the town in the future. So thank you guys if you have any

[122:48.89] questions I'd be happy to answer.

[122:55.20] Thank you. Quite an ambitious project for your senior project. So I'm going to open

[123:00.75] this up to board members and ask questions.

[123:05.24] I'd like to lead off.

[123:06.60] Sure, go ahead, be my guest.

[123:07.96] Wow, I'm really impressed. Excellent presentation, well thought out, you addressed a lot of

[123:12.20] questions. And you know, I had put in my notes that the senior center just had its

[123:17.04] first year of its community garden through an MVP grant. And you kind of said why it

[123:23.49] would be impactful for them to have another location to interact intergenerational. And

[123:28.19] I think that was a great, a great answer to my question. So I know that the senior

[123:32.39] center last year did struggle a little bit having enough volunteers to work that community

[123:36.99] garden. But it seems like you know, you have a plan and a path to solve that too. So thank

[123:42.50] you for doing this and thank you for your time.

[123:44.50] Of course, thank you for your support. All right. I think it was great. I will admit

[123:50.88] as you were going through it, I was writing down my questions, as you can see, scrubble,

[123:54.28] scrubble, scrubble. So you managed to address a lot. I do want to start off playing the

[124:00.19] bad cop though. And I just want to say because I did reach out, I reached out to the town

[124:05.11] manager, I did reach out to somebody who happens to have your last name. And I just

[124:09.03] kind of mentioned the fact that you kind of went about this in a backward sense. You

[124:12.71] know, we're talking about process tonight, we're trying to make sure that this board

[124:15.95] always does what we're supposed to do. Ultimately, it's this board that has the decision making

[124:21.23] process in any town for own property. So I'm not saying this necessarily to you because

[124:25.91] I'm not saying I'm against it. But I'm saying for any of the other students out there that

[124:29.53] may be paying attention to this, if you're looking to do something on town property,

[124:33.43] make your presentation to us first. I only mentioned that because what caught my eye

[124:37.95] is your Facebook page, you great, it was great. There was a lot of people liked it.

[124:41.59] There was a lot of positive comments, but you use the town seal. And there was a picture

[124:45.60] with the town truck in there. So that kind of kind of was emblematic of the fact that

[124:49.47] we had already endorsed it. And again, the cart following the horse that was mentioned

[124:54.27] earlier. So again, I love it. I'm loving it. And I know you're eager and I know you're

[124:59.45] senior in the calendars running short. But again, just as an advisory point, if there's

[125:03.45] any teachers that are paying attention to this, come to us first. Because I can tell

[125:07.37] you, if you are as organized as this young man is, there is it's very hard to say no

[125:12.77] about this. Um, I do have a couple of questions that were not necessarily addressed. You

[125:18.72] did say you kicked off fundraising. Where is the money going? So as of right now, obviously,

[125:24.57] like you addressed, I didn't go in front of the select board before working on the

[125:29.55] fundraising kickoff. I think that just a time constraint with looking to get this started

[125:35.18] as soon as possible was the reason why I started that earlier. And my mistake, if that was

[125:38.82] the wrong kind of course of action, but we're all here learning. It's this is wonderful.

[125:44.92] It really is. So where the money is going in hopes, I think that this would the funding

[125:51.60] would alleviate the town's need to supply funds of pumping water from the well or planing

[125:59.43] the ground like any of that's not what I'm saying. I'm saying if you are receiving donations,

[126:04.51] where is the money currently going? We haven't received any monetary donations into an account

[126:10.90] now. I thought you'd said you'd order received donations. I wanted to this is what I so

[126:17.94] I was hoping that by coming forward now, we would sort of get the ball rolling on the

[126:23.17] town side of things because I'm not entirely sure from my perspective, what the next step

[126:30.39] is to maybe set up a bank account or like I said, a committee under town. I'm not sure

[126:36.45] how that is, which is why I'm asking for other people's including all of your guidance on

[126:42.56] this issue. So there isn't any funds in a bank account sitting right now. It's the promise

[126:48.83] of giving funds once we establish it. So my suggestion would be is to come in and

[126:52.97] talk to Austin and allow the town to create like a revolving account, a charitable account.

[126:57.85] So that way, all the money gets dealt with here in that way, the town can oversee it.

[127:02.70] So that way, there's no liability that potentially could blow black on you. Because the last

[127:07.36] thing you want to have is I'm doing all this hard work. And then someone asked you, where

[127:10.52] did the money go? So at least this way, there can be it can be accounted for and documented.

[127:15.80] And that will protect you. And that will also help ensure that once you graduate and

[127:20.60] you move on, and you look to pass the baton, that this can continue. Because I think this

[127:25.72] is just absolutely fantastic. And if you do go forward, I hope it's sustainable, not in

[127:32.72] the long term. And I hope residents get really excited about it. Because again, not that

[127:38.24] I have a green thumb, every now and then have like a black thumb or a brown thumb,

[127:42.92] but I'll come in and I'll get my hands dirty. I'll try to raise some vegetables down there

[127:46.76] because I just think it's wonderful. Well, thank you. So I just want to congratulate

[127:50.68] you on your thoughtfulness on this. And I'm pretty confident that you'll get the boards

[127:55.84] backing tonight. Thank you, Jesse. I could just answer one of your questions about where

[128:01.30] it would be housed. Most of our departments have gift accounts. Yep. So I think that's

[128:05.32] a reasonable solution is to establish a gift account for this specific purpose. And anyone

[128:11.43] who decides to contribute whether now or in the future, they could, they could do

[128:15.39] so go to the town managed by our treasurer collector in our accounting offices. Perfect.

[128:20.02] I just want to make sure that this young man here is protected. Yep. So this is just a

[128:24.34] board discussion. So we're not really taking comments from the public right now. Okay.

[128:49.00] Okay, thank you. Thanks. It'll be noted. All right. Anybody else? Again with the water,

[128:57.15] the water from the well to the site above or below ground? This is yeah, it honestly

[129:06.66] just depends. This is what I have prepared right now is just the first steps of getting

[129:12.82] the ball rolling on this project. So I can't answer that in full certainty right now. But

[129:20.46] that would be what I hope a committee or a group of educated people on not as I'm not,

[129:27.06] but my garden extent goes towards just at my house doing plantings and stuff like that.

[129:33.35] I'm not an expert on community gardens in town. So I would, I would be interested to

[129:38.31] hear what other people have to say and just research that. So yeah. Okay. I think you

[129:44.04] said 0.3 acres. Yeah. My two cents worth is with the size of Shaw farm. Why not start

[129:52.60] bigger? And I don't mean to start bigger as in every plot has to be sold. But if if

[129:57.99] we're going to go through the process of saying this is the community garden, make

[130:01.59] it bigger. And then as people get interested, you don't have to come back looking for more

[130:06.68] space, pick a corner of the site that's expandable. Yeah, that's, that's kind of a point I'm

[130:10.84] making is, is pick a spot that's bigger than 0.3 acres. That's, that's not a lot. The

[130:16.61] point three acres was just a kind of not to say guesstimate, but just something to

[130:22.04] put onto a map to visualize. It could be as it has, however big as we ultimately decide

[130:28.93] it should be. But I just put the point three acres because that would be enough room to

[130:33.33] put 20 yard in plots. But no, I fully am on board with making it bigger since I think

[130:38.66] that just by the initial interest in it, I think way more than 20 families or 20 people

[130:44.11] would be interested in having plots. So yes, I agree. And can we just somehow make sure

[130:50.58] that he's going to check the bubble link area and look because where you have it now

[130:54.83] expand. I don't know how many acres are on the side of that road. But I mean, that would

[131:06.08] just be worked with. So the approving of location, I wasn't hoping that that would be done today.

[131:09.75] Jen, can you come up and address that? Yeah, it's okay. So all right. I actually talked

[131:32.13] to Michael briefly and his mom, who's great on any number of things. I'm going to pair

[131:37.36] with her on. Can you just identify yourself? Oh, I'm sorry. Jen Hager. I'm the town's

[131:41.56] community development director. So as people may know, somehow, I have fallen into the

[131:51.97] role of kind of overseeing coordination of care of Shaw Farm over the years. And the

[131:59.41] I sent Austin, I think he forwarded to you just some initial concerns or things that

[132:05.21] need to be addressed. Like I said to Michael, no doubt, it's a great idea. But a lot of

[132:11.09] things out there that maybe people don't understand, having not gone through the various

[132:16.19] processes we've gone through in the next year since the town spent $4.5 million on

[132:22.31] this property. So as many of you know, it was a significant expenditure. And the Board

[132:28.79] of Selectmen at the time asked that we then carry through a master planning process with

[132:32.99] the town, having spent all that money to see what they wanted to use it for. So I did

[132:39.50] provide you a page, the master plan, the main page of the master plan, the selectman.

[132:45.51] Ultimately, there's no restrictions. There's no chapter 97 restrictions on this property

[132:49.55] through other grant funds having been received or anything in the past. So there's no restrictions

[132:55.47] on how you use it. And it's completely as was noted, the purview of the Board of Selectmen

[133:00.54] to decide if they want to follow the master plan, adjust the master plan or do something

[133:04.66] totally different. So I just want anybody who might have been involved then aware as

[133:09.58] we tried to make them at the time that the master plan is a vision. It's not a cast

[133:14.18] in stone thing. It's trying to get the input. So that being said, I did send along a vernal

[133:24.09] pool map. I sent along a wetlands delineation map. And I am aware there is a well on the

[133:32.70] property. It does not have a well pump. It is more just kind of the decommissioned well

[133:37.00] in the ground from the house. That is one of my primary concerns in terms of cost and

[133:42.96] the great fund raising response that Michael has had may cover that. But it's a cautionary

[133:49.93] because we are currently doing the exact investigation at Marion's camp to recommission the well

[133:57.38] at Marion's camp that used to serve the camp. And just the engineering to recommission that

[134:03.86] well and do the testing is about $80,000, not including any physical work on the well.

[134:11.10] As you know, unfortunately, anything we do on town property has to be done at prevailing

[134:15.46] wage. It has to be done through a very strict procurement process. So if you can find somebody

[134:19.50] who is a well driller, that would be great. Because I think they could donate that. I'm

[134:24.80] not positive, but the procurement officer can tell us. So to track down a well gap.

[134:31.99] And then it's really just the proximity of everything. The bobble link information.

[134:38.87] I did not see that on the endangered species or the threatened species map, but I'm happy

[134:43.70] to take a look at that and see if that's on there. And if there is a protection there,

[134:48.60] there used to be a national heritage endangered species protection area related to tree frog.

[134:54.72] More on your aunt's property side coming into the backside. But when we did the septic

[135:01.53] system information for the town septic system, we did an in-depth study and that was actually

[135:07.34] altered and I don't think any longer touches Shaw Farm, but we would need to verify that.

[135:13.14] So you're already in touch with the right people at the school or have those contacts

[135:18.13] to see where that track is, make sure that's not altered. So well is important. And then

[135:24.67] you mentioned, or I mentioned to you, invasive species treatment. And you mentioned Wayne

[135:29.21] Whittier. So the town puts out to bid maintenance of those fields, hanging of those fields.

[135:34.21] I believe you would know best on three-year increments.

[135:37.48] Yeah, we've been doing the past when I've done this three years.

[135:40.64] And the one thing about having Whittier Farms contracted for the next three to five years,

[135:47.56] whatever it is, is Whittier Farms has, as a long-term member of the community, has asked

[135:54.01] and received permission to treat the fields to get rid of things that are not friendly

[136:02.09] to hay invasive species. So starting this year, they began doing treatments to basically

[136:12.66] improve the health of the fields and the growth on the fields. That information on

[136:18.25] what they were treating it with was provided to the town manager's office. I also have

[136:21.97] copies of it in my office, happy to provide you. And that conversation with Mr. Whittier

[136:26.79] is going to be super important because, and probably with the company he works with on

[136:33.26] that process, to make sure that nothing about what they're doing, like the proximity to

[136:41.13] where you would be doing gardening, because you obviously don't, if there's any issue

[136:45.29] with that in terms of gardening and what plants in the gardens absorb, you want to

[136:50.37] avoid that at all costs, obviously. So the one tricky thing, the first time I really

[136:58.13] had to get into knowledge of Army Corps permitting was on this site because of the Vernal Pools.

[137:06.57] And I can't even tell you, it's amazing, the amount of red tape with Army Corps permitting

[137:14.31] that goes with Vernal Pools. We are very lucky that we have a really young, energetic and

[137:20.29] knowledgeable conservation agent recently joining the town. And she can be very helpful

[137:25.95] along with all of our resources through the Blackstone Watershed Association and others

[137:30.78] to understand, it's not just work in the wetlands, it's work in the buffer areas of

[137:36.37] both the wetlands and the Vernal Pools. For instance, what we found when we were doing

[137:41.23] the potential engineering to potentially install the track and field that was the centerpiece

[137:48.26] of the master plan was that we could not widen Shaw Lane at all. That if we moved one

[137:57.96] teaspoon of dirt outside the existing layout, Army Corps permitting would drop in and I

[138:05.97] can't even tell you the thickness of the Army Corps mandates the money that's tied

[138:11.63] to that, it's crazy. So these are the kind of things that it's super important to kind

[138:17.51] of understand all those elements and try to work around them all. Try to find that

[138:21.91] spot that is acceptable to the Board of Select and to make it all work. So you don't want

[138:29.62] to be too far from the well or maybe it's fine. Maybe there's a way to kind of use

[138:33.74] the well in its current location and have a conveyance method to get water to wherever

[138:38.68] the beds are. But I'm not trying to be the killjoy. I'm, as you know, unfortunately

[138:45.02] off in the reality police. And I hate being the reality police. So it's really just kind

[138:52.90] of those punch lists of things that need to be gone through and I am just learning

[138:57.46] about the links. So we really need to check. Do you know if that's an endangered or threatened?

[139:03.77] They're not endangered but they drop by 75% so they're a critical interest. Okay. Alright.

[139:12.00] So it should show on the NHESP map. So I'll take a look. Please no conversation. Please,

[139:21.93] we got to keep it up here. So yeah, so I'm sorry. I did that. Sorry. So yeah, that's

[139:28.29] something we should understand and that we have the resources to do and help you do.

[139:32.01] Do you mind if I ask you a question? Yeah. Sorry. I just wanted to ask if when the master

[139:41.13] plan went out about like the turf field and the track and that stuff, did all of those

[139:47.83] developments align with all of the requirements just listed because I feel as though if we

[139:58.47] do place a community garden within the proposed area of a turf field and that those giant

[140:06.91] concrete and rubber bits and all that stuff, I think having a lot less, I'd say detrimental

[140:15.36] things that would impact the environment such as garden boxes and community gardens. I

[140:19.00] think that if you do place community gardens within that designated area that was given

[140:23.92] X amount of years ago, I think you would be able to avoid a lot of the issues that

[140:28.35] you just mentioned other than the well. So so here's the here's the issue. So again,

[140:35.41] the town's people at the time spent a lot of money buying the property and the select

[140:39.02] one at the time said they just spent a lot of money. Let's ask the community. Let's

[140:43.68] go through a robust public process to have public sessions to ask people what they want

[140:49.88] us to do with the property. They just spent all this money on that master plan came out

[140:55.06] of it. That is what the residents who chose to put in what year was that? Yeah, 2012,

[141:00.54] 2011. What do you know if you have the map? Do you know what year it was? I think it's

[141:05.22] 2012. Yeah, it's in your office on the wall. What I've already said to you is it might

[141:10.87] be time to update the master plan. Or again, the Board of Select them can choose. There's

[141:17.14] no restrictions. They can choose to ignore the master plan. They can choose to adjust

[141:21.32] it. They can absolutely do that. The one cautionary is you're absolutely right. The impacts of

[141:27.16] a community garden on any landscape are less than a track and field. You just want to

[141:34.23] be mindful or I would suggest the Board of Selectman be mindful of, you know, if you

[141:41.19] grow a community garden and a lot of people get invested on that, and then you want to

[141:48.83] pursue the track and field from the master plan or whatever else that you understand

[141:56.68] you may have to relocate that. So if there's a way to locate what you want to do and if

[142:01.38] they approve it, which it sounds like they're going to, better to try to work around that

[142:06.30] instead of having to relocate all your work and redo all your work. So those are just

[142:13.05] things that need to be considered. You know, there's things also like, you know, the cross

[142:17.47] country field regularly, and they've been out there for decades now, host meets and

[142:25.29] the grassed area right to the left of and behind the one standing shed is always the

[142:33.69] primary parking for people who come to the meets. So you'd always, so you might not

[142:40.15] want to use that area as well because then you just place all of the parking for track

[142:44.79] meets. And again, if you've been on the farm, a lot of people use the farm for various

[142:50.40] things now that are you see in the master plan. And so you want to be cognizant of where

[142:54.78] those people park now and those kind of uses as well. It's a it's just a it's a holistic

[143:00.29] thing to take a look at. Could I ask just a very simple question? Is there a space

[143:06.18] somewhere on the property that this could go forward without impacting our agreement

[143:11.00] with the Whittier's without impacting cross country without impacting parking? That's

[143:15.62] a good question. I mean, I feel like there should be especially when he's talking about

[143:20.16] a third of an acre. I would hope so. Yeah. So so I really I feel like there should be

[143:26.28] but again, that's the point of kind of coming to the town and the players like maybe even

[143:32.40] having Wayne at the table, the track coach at the table, you know, the the environmental

[143:38.66] studies that have already been done at the table, the conservation agent at the table

[143:42.20] and saying, all right, what do we got? And if we understand from the slack men that

[143:47.09] either they'd like to preserve the things that are on the master plan and try to work

[143:51.07] around them if at all possible or or no, we're okay with kind of doing something in those

[143:57.13] areas and we're okay with relocating this. If we need to in the future, then that's

[144:01.59] great guidance to have up front because then Michael will know whether he has some more

[144:06.41] flexibility and the people working with him will know that as well. I know from my own

[144:10.25] perspective, I'd like to see if we could get this rolling in some fashion that works.

[144:14.72] Ultimately, that works for all the parties involved. Again, I don't think I haven't heard

[144:20.17] anybody that disagrees with that, including myself. It's really just understanding all

[144:24.45] the pieces because we see this 137 acre parcel. And we're like, oh, this is easy. And it's

[144:29.29] like, gosh, I wish it was the case, but there's a lot to be considered. And certainly, it

[144:38.32] feels like it should be doable. It's just the people at the table who know they're

[144:43.64] different pieces and and doing that brainstorming to say, you know what, this is a problem because

[144:48.94] of this. Can we deal with that or move it? This is a problem because of this getting

[144:53.54] the invasive guy to say, no, no, no, you know, that's dry in 24 hours. It doesn't affect

[145:00.92] anything in a garden bed or whatever, getting that information. It's all about the information.

[145:06.25] And then just saying, here it is. Here's the spot. Run, you know, and and let's get

[145:11.21] this done. Thank you. Speaking of getting this going, the well issue, the well is decommissioned,

[145:21.75] what is the tube still on the ground? I believe it is. And that brings the next question.

[145:28.70] That answers the water question. Can it go above or below ground with all of the stipulations

[145:33.77] about moving a teaspoon of dirt? That answers that question. And it's above ground. But

[145:38.11] specifically to the well, why couldn't somebody just donate a pump and drop it down there

[145:46.22] and see if it works? If someone if someone was willing to donate a pump. Here's my one

[145:53.71] cautionary is this is a Board of Health question, because again, what we're finding out at

[146:00.44] Marion's camp is the number of people that may use the water in that well is super important

[146:05.57] in terms of regulation. We all just love regulation. But in the least, you have to

[146:12.30] test the water coming out of that well, because you're putting it on things people will eat.

[146:17.75] So this is totally a Board of Health question, somebody else that needs to be at the table.

[146:23.99] So I can only tell you kind of rough costs. I feel like, yeah, there's a maybe an opportunity

[146:31.10] to because I think that well is in way better shape than the Marion's camp well, which

[146:36.29] is ancient. That was a well for a home. So as a different volume in a different size

[146:42.43] well, but I feel like you don't need more than that. So, so it's really, you know,

[146:48.53] kind of pow wowing with the Board of Health and, and seeing if there's somebody out there

[146:53.34] who'd be willing to donate that kind of whatever we need, to be kind of cool to have the old

[146:58.57] fashioned pump on well, I'm just saying, proper submersible pump in, see what comes

[147:04.37] out, test the water and then bring it to the Board of Health. Yeah, and it should

[147:08.06] be that simple. It's, yeah, and it's the and getting that Board of Health guidance

[147:12.77] in advance. So you know, you don't miss a step. Super important. Because again, it's

[147:16.73] a residential well, Marion's camp, we had DEP records because it wasn't it was a transient

[147:21.57] non you know, so okay. Thank you, Jen. Thank you. All right. So one thing I want to make

[147:31.86] sure we understand too is that this is a low impact process. And I don't want to overburden

[147:38.18] it with just mountains of regulation. So we need to be sensible about this. But we also

[147:47.39] have to understand there are constraints. And so I think you part of your project is

[147:51.31] going to be is to figure out, I mean, you picked a complex project, but I think it's

[147:55.77] a great project, I think it's an incredibly good project, and you're going to learn a

[147:58.39] lot through this process, probably more than you ever suspected. Both about government

[148:06.05] and you know, but I think you should also be thinking and talking to Austin about maybe

[148:13.85] other properties in town that the town owns as alternatives. I think that, you know, obviously

[148:23.20] there are constraints, one of them, one of the big ones is you know, Whittier Farms has

[148:27.76] contracted with us, I think Austin through 2030, correct? Yep. So they have primary use

[148:34.07] of the majority of the hayfield. So you're gonna have to work it out with them, you

[148:38.37] know, to find a spot that doesn't impact them. Plus, they, you know, as part of their

[148:43.09] maintenance of this, they put money into it, I'm sure. And so that's a primary conversation

[148:48.31] that I would have to get started with. The other thing that I think about too, is you're

[148:54.85] going to want this to last well beyond your time. Like you're creating this, I think the

[149:00.54] hardest thing, to be honest with you, is not so much the creation of it. It's going

[149:04.72] to be like, how does this live on? And you address this, but I think this is going to

[149:09.61] be the hardest piece because, you know, it'd be really sad to see if like you got this

[149:14.74] going and then two years from now it went defunct, right? So it's creating the support

[149:19.93] and getting an organization around it. I don't think it should be a town organization,

[149:24.25] to be honest with you. I think it should be a community organization, whether you partner

[149:28.34] with one of the agricultural trusts or, you know, or some other organization in town,

[149:33.33] but I really think it should be out, like the town obviously owns the land, but I think

[149:37.01] you should try to do this as much as possible outside with organizations that can partner

[149:41.65] with the town on this so that it can live on. Because the ones that are successful are

[149:45.90] the ones that, you know, people get engaged on. So you're the catalyst of this, but you've

[149:52.49] got to find those key people who are going to drive that organization forward for you,

[149:57.66] whether it gets a new one gets created, or you tap into an existing organization. And

[150:02.87] I think it ties very well in with what I believe is the spirit of that property that

[150:07.65] is underutilized, and I think, you know, we spent a lot of money on that. And, you know,

[150:14.26] so I think the spirit of it is so I think the process is, you know, you're a senior,

[150:18.14] I want you to still be a senior when we make a decision where this goes. So I think, you

[150:24.94] know, it's really working with Austin and Jen to figure out a spot and the Oideers

[150:29.82] and other key people. But, you know, we got to expedite how, you know, I don't want this

[150:35.15] to get dragged out through regulation. It's got to be sensible. This is a garden plot.

[150:40.66] This is not like we're putting in, you know, a foundation for a building or something like

[150:45.06] that. So I really want to be sensible about this. So my thinking is, you know, we, as

[150:51.88] a board, you know, kind of vote tonight to give you permission to start moving the process

[150:55.80] forward. And at some point at a later date, you come to us for a checkpoint to say this

[150:59.92] is where I am. And this is why I think it's going to happen. And we can vote there to

[151:03.72] then grant the full movement forward. But I think right now there's a lot of investigatory

[151:08.85] information, you know, that you're going to have to do. So that's kind of my suggestion

[151:13.01] is how we handle this. What are your thoughts? I'd like to get them.

[151:17.45] No, just to address two things you brought up. One is the potential for a different

[151:21.42] location, not to kind of get into the minutia of it. But when I met with Mr. Saganovich

[151:27.78] about or in September, we talked about maybe at the senior center or at Marin's camp.

[151:33.81] From working at Marin's camp, I know how many people from out of town go there and

[151:37.83] maybe some of not the best crowd. And that was my concern if there are a bunch of kind

[151:44.37] of foot traffic, not to say that there isn't at Shaw Farm with dog walkers, but just seeing

[151:49.02] firsthand how it is at Marion's camp. I know that there's a field up there. I didn't

[151:52.50] know how much like trouble would happen up there. Not to say that there would be, but

[152:00.14] seeing some of the people that come down at Marin's camp, I just wanted to be aware

[152:03.30] of that. But I did think of that. And if there is a well going in place at Marion's

[152:06.98] camp, I don't know, is that a possibility to do it there and kind of take a bit of

[152:11.72] the water from that? Well, that's something to talk about. But going back to what you

[152:15.56] said on my thoughts, I wanted to bring this in front of you guys just to get your initial

[152:22.13] opinions on it and permission to, like you said, get the ball rolling slightly on details.

[152:30.07] Assemble a group of people who are more knowledgeable on different things and do some research

[152:35.14] on the, correct me if I'm wrong, but Bob links the different animals that may be harmed

[152:43.14] by community garden. But no, I just think that me coming forward today was just to get

[152:48.92] your initial opinion on this. And then in hopes of moving forward in more detailed and

[152:56.05] specifics later on. And in essence to gardening actually attracts other beneficial animals

[153:03.13] to the area as well. So it's much more, it's much bigger than that. So the other thing

[153:07.77] around water too is like the well is not the only option. There are other options,

[153:13.14] I think, you know, it's not ideal, it'd be ideal to have a well, but there are other

[153:16.42] options like water collection and things like that. And again, this is food for people's

[153:20.88] individual consumption. We're not selling this to the public. So these are all things

[153:24.71] to consider as you go through the process. And maybe it's a phased approach and eventually

[153:28.67] maybe it's the group that takes this over their decision to make down the road. But

[153:34.72] you don't want you to get bogged down in things that may not happen for a few years,

[153:39.09] just focus on the things, the quick hits to get you where you need to be so you can

[153:43.35] finish this as a senior project. So you might be just building the foundation of this and

[153:49.64] not necessarily, you know, seeing the end of it. But does that make sense? Yeah. Okay.

[153:54.51] All right. I was just gonna say make sure you get a good grade on this too, because

[153:58.79] you're gonna have lots of homework. It's, it's all gonna be busy. Passion. It's not

[154:02.67] anything, not anything with a grade, but excellent. And think about it, even though

[154:06.03] we lost half the audience, you still got a lot of people on zoom that are paying attention

[154:09.35] to this. So you might have gotten a lot more bidges that can help you out in the process.

[154:12.51] Thank you for everyone who stayed to listen. Yeah. So do we want, do we feel that we need

[154:15.81] to? Yeah, we probably should articulate some type of motion. So if I may, I would like

[154:22.58] to move that we allow this project to proceed to the next stage with coming back for final

[154:31.10] approval in the future. I'll second that. Second. All right. Any other discussion?

[154:36.51] Can you roll call vote, please? Jess and LaManna Kite. Watkins, aye. Spangler, aye.

[154:40.99] And Anderson, aye. All right. Congratulations. Thank you, guys. Thank you. A lot of good

[154:45.38] work. All right. Next on the agenda is Holly schedule for alcohol license holders. And

[154:57.30] just to be brief, so this is an annual item allowed by Master General Law that allows

[155:01.74] for additional flexibility during holiday hours or for Thanksgiving and Christmas Day.

[155:08.47] And then also New Year's Eve extending the pouring hours until 2 a.m. This is an annual

[155:12.21] item that comes from the board and sent to all alcohol license holders in the town of

[155:18.93] Sutton. So again, additional flexibility during the holiday season. And it's traditionally

[155:26.22] read into the minutes by the clerk. Oh, okay. I'm sorry. I was dozing. Okay. So. You could

[155:33.40] dispense of reading that if you wanted. No, we do not do that here. So to all alcohol

[155:39.90] license holders from the select board holiday openings, November 10th, 2026, please be advised

[155:46.80] that on November 10th, 2026, the Sutton select board authorized the holiday hours as follows

[155:53.42] on November 29th, December 6th, December 13th, December 20th, and December 27th, parentheses

[156:00.73] Sundays. Package stores may open at regular time of 10 a.m. Package stores must close

[156:06.61] not later than 11 p.m. In addition, the following holiday hours apply. Thanksgiving package

[156:14.14] stores manufacturers wholesalers and importers may not sell or deliver alcoholic beverages

[156:20.92] at any time during the day. Hotels, restaurants, taverns and clubs may sell alcohol beverages

[156:28.17] during regular hours. On Wednesday, November 25th, all package stores may be open until

[156:35.52] 1130 p.m. Christmas day. Package stores, manufacturers, wholesalers and importers may

[156:41.86] not sell or deliver alcoholic beverages at any time during the day. Hotels, restaurants,

[156:48.68] caverns and clubs may not sell alcoholic beverages until 12 noon. On Thursday, December 24th,

[156:56.75] 2026, all package stores may be open until 1130 p.m. On Thursday, December 31st, 2026,

[157:06.30] all package stores may be open until 1130 p.m. On New Year's Day, Friday, January 1st,

[157:13.86] 2027, all licensees may sell alcoholic beverages. Per vote of the Sutton Select Board, the pouring

[157:22.26] hours on New Year's Eve have been extended until 2 a.m. That's it? Oh, yeah, that's it.

[157:32.80] I don't have to do this whole other thing right now. All right, do we have a discussion?

[157:40.66] All right, who wants to make a motion? I think it's, uh, I think. I'd like to make a motion to

[157:46.14] approve the 2026 holiday hours for alcohol licenses in the town of Sutton. I'll second that.

[157:53.56] Okay, and the discussion. Okay, roll call vote please. Jesse LaMannica. Anna Marna. Aye.

[157:58.53] Watkins. Aye. Spangula. Aye. And Anderson. Aye. All right, next on the agenda is 2027. Excuse me,

[158:05.37] Select Board. Meeting minutes. A schedule. Excuse me. Do I read this too? You should.

[158:14.27] Yes. No, no, please don't. This one we usually don't. I do have one question though.

[158:21.10] Sure. Is this proposed calendar, is this going to impact your attendance of the IMA conference?

[158:26.98] No, she checked. Okay, I just wanted to make sure. I'll be at town meeting. There's also no,

[158:31.96] uh, there's no election because it's an odd year. So I wonder how many primaries or, uh,

[158:37.09] any elections in November. So those are just my comments. That's it. Any other comments?

[158:41.57] All right. Uh, yeah, I'm all good. How about Mr. Chairman? How about I make a motion to approve

[158:45.57] the 2027 select board meeting schedule is presented. I'll second that. All right,

[158:50.28] any discussion? Roll call vote, please. Jess and LaMannica. And Amarnay. Watkins. Aye.

[158:54.52] Spangler. Aye. Anderson. Aye. All right, next is town manager updates. I'll just be very brief,

[158:59.51] two items. Um, just want to thank Jen Hager for her work and certainly a lot of community support

[159:07.06] as well, um, from the senior center. But, um, if you drove by the senior center recently,

[159:12.10] you may have noticed a new sign for the senior center. It's beautiful. Um, definitely an upgrade

[159:17.59] from what we used to have, um, using local funds, uh, and, uh, certainly Jen's, uh, relationships

[159:25.19] with our vendors. I think we worked out a really great sign, uh, and working with a local vendor

[159:31.29] that also kind of matches the identity of a lot of our other wayfinding and signers that you're

[159:35.13] seeing across the community. So I just want to give a shout out, um, uh, to Jen and thank

[159:40.45] her for her work on that. Um, and if you have an opportunity, go check it out. It's beautiful.

[159:44.45] Thank you. I forgot highway. Sorry, Nick, they get enough credit during the snow and ice season.

[159:55.37] Yeah. Yeah. Sorry. And now I'm in the doghouse for the highway department. All right. All right.

[160:01.65] The other is, um, so I sent a memo to the board, but we also are now starting the capital planning

[160:06.43] process, um, for the town, uh, for FY 28 through 33, um, hearing a lot of the feedback,

[160:13.57] certainly with our budget discussions, we want to make sure that we have a lot more

[160:17.50] robust capital planning effort through the next phase. Um, we're looking also utilize, uh, open

[160:25.17] book, which is our online transparency tool. So what you'll be able to see actually is every

[160:29.97] request will now have a project page on open book. So you can see everything that was submitted

[160:34.93] directly from the department head. Um, and then the funding status, um, for not just for this

[160:41.72] upcoming year, but any year, uh, through FY 2023, uh, 2033. Um, I think so far some several of the

[160:50.30] departments have, have started submitting their requests, uh, and looking forward to introducing

[160:54.58] that transparency tool to the public. But, uh, I believe we have capital requests due, um, by early

[161:00.50] December, and then we'll take the next few weeks evaluating and preparing the FY 2028 capital plan

[161:05.22] for that. So we are, again, I think still ahead of schedule, especially in terms of our budget

[161:10.24] development process. Um, budget requests for FY 2028 are due in another 10 days. So a little bit

[161:17.00] of time left. Again, take, take some time to evaluate that work with departments and get your

[161:21.54] preliminary budget. Um, ideally ahead of schedule as well. That's all I have for tonight. Thank you.

[161:28.01] Anybody have any questions, comments? All right. Thank you. Next is, uh, announcements, select board

[161:34.70] round table correspondence and business topics. Mr. Chairman, if I may, I just got three quick

[161:39.26] points. Uh, first off, I'd like to thank all the seniors that attended my coffee on Monday. Um,

[161:45.34] conversation was lively as it always is. And I really appreciate the time I get to spend,

[161:49.98] uh, down there with the seniors. We get, we got very, very, uh, invested people in our senior

[161:55.83] center and, uh, just the knowledge and understanding of this town they have. It's definitely

[162:00.07] appreciative. And I know they've helped guide me on many issues. So looking forward to the next one

[162:04.39] in December. Second, if you do anything as an American citizen, um, I am going to make a really

[162:12.43] focused, um, request that everybody take the time to thank a veteran. You would be nothing,

[162:18.65] nothing you have, nothing you possess, you would be allowed to possess, but for the millions of men

[162:23.61] and women who are willing to put their lives on the line by volunteering throughout most of our

[162:28.97] history, um, through both times of war and peace serving under the American flag in the armed

[162:34.89] services. So tomorrow is 11, 11, 11, you know, the day of, uh, infamy, the day that was supposed to

[162:40.49] end all wars. And obviously we know that's not the case. So, um, unfortunately we are

[162:44.65] losing many of our world war two veterans. We're losing many of our Korean war veterans. There

[162:48.89] aren't many left and we're starting to get to the Vietnam generation. So if you have a family

[162:53.69] member or your neighbor or somebody you know, just take the time and just say thank you. Um, because

[162:59.38] their service is definitely appreciated. And last but not least, I have a very lengthy, um, food

[163:04.78] pantry list. Unfortunately I understand, you know, we are suffering through tough economic times and

[163:10.54] of course everyone's struggling. And I really, really want to drive home the point that we are

[163:16.06] constantly labeled as a wealthy community, but there are over 200 families that draw upon the

[163:22.87] food pantry. The Mike Chizzy food pantry. It's less seniors, more family. So if you could find

[163:28.79] it in your hearts when you go shopping, if you could pick up cans of diced tomatoes, tomato sauce,

[163:35.13] spaghetti sauce, baked beans, chili, ham, hash, mandarin oranges, peaches, pineapple,

[163:45.33] boxes of raisins, cranberry sauce, manwich, tuner and hamburger helper, canned pasta,

[163:53.70] juice bottles, juice boxes, coffee and hot cocoa, um, cookie mix, pie crusts,

[164:02.33] pie fillings, quick bread mix, sugar in the plastic containers, flavored rice and noodles,

[164:09.68] white and brown rice, instant potatoes, saltines, Ritz crackers, mayonnaise, barbecue sauce,

[164:19.87] jams and jellies, gravy, all varieties, beef, chicken, turkey, paper towels,

[164:26.01] toilet paper, tissues, deodorant, both men's and women's, laundry detergent, the family jugs,

[164:33.73] razors, both for men and women and wet and dry cat and dog food. And of course, these can be

[164:38.97] dropped off at senior senatorial normal business hours, 8am to 3pm. There's also a collection box

[164:44.25] here in town hall. There's one at market 32 and they also do collections at St. Mark's and the

[164:50.01] first congregational church as well as you could drop things off at the Sutton Transfer Station.

[164:54.24] That's all I have. Thank you Jesse. Anybody else? Um, I have one thing. I'm not sure if you were

[165:00.96] going to mention it. We did receive at least one email regarding the transfer hour changes.

[165:06.83] I think there was some chatter out there too and some concern that it's going to be permanent.

[165:11.20] But I think, is Nick in the audience? Um, I don't know if he's still here. I think there was some

[165:16.77] concern with the Saturday hour going all the way down, uh, getting shortened to 230. So have we

[165:22.66] usually, um, reduced the Saturday hour for the darkness like that? No, this is the first time

[165:29.27] it's been shifted on Saturdays. Okay. So, um, I think there's been a little bit of concern about

[165:34.55] if that's going to be permanent or temporary and how that kind of truncated this Saturday. I believe

[165:38.79] when it was presented to us, this is just for the winter months. Okay. So I just wanted to acknowledge

[165:43.85] that we had received an email from a constituent. Thank you for bringing that up. Yeah, one thing

[165:48.87] I got just, uh, something prompted my mind. So over the summer or I guess a couple months ago,

[165:53.19] we did the, our policy book, right? It went through our set of policies and in doing so,

[165:57.19] I happened to, uh, read, um, the, the wonderful tome that is the, uh, the town charter. I did

[166:02.31] notice there is a, a piece in the town charter regarding the town manager that says the town

[166:06.71] manager has full discretion over use of town facilities, property, except under the control

[166:11.27] of the school, et cetera. So just, I'm juxtaposing that blurb with a prior conversation about when

[166:18.85] town use of town property needs to be approved by the select board. Cause I do think it could be

[166:24.43] confusing for Austin around when does Austin have the authority to make a decision versus,

[166:29.63] you know, per the town charter versus when something has to come to us. So maybe we bring

[166:33.79] this up at a future select board meeting so we can give Austin some guidance like, Hey, you know,

[166:38.27] one reasonable way of looking at it would be if something involves putting concrete in the ground

[166:41.95] or some permanent structure or strategic or is, you know, otherwise expensive or risky that you

[166:48.43] come to the select board to make a decision on, but if it's, you know, a less, um, onerous

[166:53.37] decision that the town manager has authority and Austin and I've had a conversation around this

[166:59.38] and, you know, I don't let you express it, but I think your overall feeling is, is that,

[167:04.17] you know, most of the time you're going to come to us because you feel like you want guidance

[167:08.17] around this. So I do think it makes sense for us to probably have, you know, at some point in an

[167:12.99] agenda item to talk about this, but overall, I think, I think, you know, yeah. So what are you

[167:19.25] going to say? Yeah, just as a point of past practice, it's always come before us. His predecessor

[167:24.13] always presented it to us because there was another suggested potential use down at Shafam

[167:28.77] that unfortunately when it was presented, it was unattainable. Right. So, but again,

[167:33.19] I think it's very important that we be the first sounding board because again,

[167:37.03] our job is to guide him in making the decisions that impact the day-to-day affairs of town.

[167:41.59] So I'll work it out with Austin and we'll talk about like whether we want to have a discussion.

[167:45.89] I think we should, what are your thoughts? I don't have thoughts right now. I think,

[167:53.93] I mean, I think the charter is our, you know, often referred to as a local constitution for

[168:00.78] community. So I think it's pretty clear. I think where then you maybe have a policy that conflicts

[168:06.14] with the charter and I'm not suggesting that I would ever do that. Certainly first and foremost,

[168:10.62] that's one of the first things I said to Michael and Jim is this should come to the board

[168:14.06] because that's how I roll. But I certainly think that there may be other potential applications

[168:21.18] and interpretation of that charter that wouldn't necessarily require board involvement. Right.

[168:27.49] Right. So maybe I think some clarity for understanding in terms of what would be,

[168:32.36] but I don't know. I think it may be a good idea that we have a conversation like to come

[168:36.60] up with some ideas and then bring it to the board for, you know, because we come up with

[168:39.72] like a straw man versus like asking the works. We're not going to think about it right now.

[168:42.92] So if we can think of these things, then we can have a discussion. If anybody on the board has

[168:47.37] ideas, you know, because I do see, I do see a level and I'm not suggesting that with this board,

[168:55.14] but you know, if you sort of over policy this, then virtually everything could have to go through.

[169:03.32] I mean, installing a desk. It's finding that that fine line of where it rests.

[169:08.38] So I think it's worth the conversation. But I think we need to kind of create the draft first

[169:14.78] before we. And just remember, I work for you. So ultimately any decision that I make,

[169:19.39] I'm accountable to you. Yeah. Right. So whether you agree with it or not, right? That's kind of

[169:23.80] how it works. So I worked it out with Austin. Only other thing just to build off of what Jesse

[169:28.78] said. So today is the birthday of the Marine Corps. So Semper Fi to all the Marines out there.

[169:34.27] My father was a Marine, my grandfather, our audience here. And then to all the veterans,

[169:38.91] obviously a heartfelt thank you and a heartfelt welcome home. Thank you. Anybody else? I'll just

[169:45.81] ditto on that. Thank you to all who served. All right. Thank you, Dan. One of the things

[169:52.68] that I just want to acknowledge is that we received many emails in regards to the

[169:59.35] correspondence and emails in regards to info and calls in regards to the data center. And so

[170:05.72] there's just too many to sit down and list them all. So Austin and I talked about this and we're

[170:10.71] going to post these up on the page, one of the pages that we have, right? So people can see them.

[170:17.68] Yeah, we'll put them into a probably a correspondence folder within this meetings,

[170:21.44] meeting materials folder. Yep. Because this is public records. When you send it to us,

[170:25.84] it does say in the email that it's public records. So these will go up so that people can read them

[170:29.92] so they can understand them fully. You know, some of these are quite long and there's quite a few

[170:35.76] of them. So I want to make sure that people are heard and get their inputs in and I can encourage

[170:40.20] other people to do the same. And with that, I'll enter a motion. Anybody else? Anything else?

[170:47.58] So into that I ask for a motion to go into executive sessions. Chairman, if I may,

[170:51.37] I'd like to make a motion to enter into executive session pursuant to mass general law, chapter 30A

[170:56.01] subsections 21 number two, to conduct strategy sessions in preparation for contract negotiations

[171:01.45] with non union personnel, aka the town manager and enter back into regular session only for

[171:06.97] purposes of enjoyment. Second. All right. Any other discussion? Roll call vote, please.

[171:12.58] Justin Lamanicay.

[171:13.50] Adam R. Aye.

[171:14.55] Watkins Aye.

[171:15.55] Spangler Aye.