2026-10-27 - Board of Health

Okay, it's 6:30. Welcome to the Board of Health meeting Tuesday, October 27th. This is a hybrid meeting. Pursuant to the Governor Healey's uh directive intended temporary opening meeting laws

provisions until June 30th, 2029, the board committee meeting will be conducted in hybrid format and will be and will be recorded. Um recordings will be available at the town hall on YouTube. Please

be aware that um Is there Is there anybody on Zoom tonight? >> Not so far. >> Okay. Okay. And can we have roll call? >> Ron Sansone, present. >> Colleen Rosales, present. >> Amy Valetta, present. >>

Tammy Miller, present. >> Okay. We're going to reorganize tonight. >> Not without Tammy. This was the issue the last couple of times. We need everybody here. >> We can reorganize without everybody

here. If you want to do it, or do you want to wait till the next meeting? What does board want? >> What's the new organization? >> Me, too. >> We can make a motion to leave it the way it is, or we can

change. >> Ron San Susi makes a motion to leave it the way it is. >> Second. >> Colleen Rosales, I. >> Is that okay? Diane Miller, I. Okay, we'll leave it the way it is. Tammy will be uh vice chair.

>> Yeah. >> Okay. Diane Miller, chair. Okay. >> Thanks, Diane. >> I'm glad we got that out of the way. >> We love you. >> Okay, um is there any local upgrades, variances? >> No. >> Oh, you're usually

sitting there. >> Usually, without Cheryl here, though. I I got your microphone. >> Yeah. If you don't mind. >> Yeah, don't mind. >> Okay, um so there's none at all. >> No. >> Okay, the next

discussion is uh the 4-H cattle at 14 Chase Road. Is there anybody here? >> Well, then I >> We invited the uh Gillespies here to discuss their um plan um with the board of um raising two cattle for

4-H. If you want guys want to come on here and um >> You want to uh introduce yourself and speak into the speaker. >> So, I'm Sarah Gillespie. >> And my husband, Jerry. So, we live at 14 Chase Road.

And just a little background on what we're doing is um we have two girls, 18 and 20, and they've been in 4-H for roughly 8 years. Um our youngest, Eileen, is in her last year. Our oldest has aged out.

So, one of the things that they do or can do every year is they can purchase their own steers, and um the club is the Saugus Preservationist Club. Um the barn that they usually use is on Bond Hollow.

So, they raise the steers for the year, and then the steers go off to auction at the Big E. So, they auction them off at the Big E. This past year there was like 40 kiddos auctioning off their steers.

They go off for slaughter then whoever buys them. Um so, they spend the year raising them, feeding them, taking care of them. So, this is Eileen's senior year. It's her last year. She bought two

steers that she's raising. >> >> So, what we decided was to pen in a section of the backyard so she could have them at the house. For the past So, they've been doing it for 8 years. We've owned our

own for about 6 years probably, 5 6 years. Right now we have four. We have two females and two steers. So, the steers are what we're bringing to the house. Um so, we did electric fencing in a section

of our backyard. Um did a little structure for you know, sod and things like that. Um >> And there's another fence around the entire yard as well. >> Yeah. >> Wooden fence with sheep and goat wire

nailed to it. So, they're inside of two fences. >> Yeah, and the electric fence is three. Three rows three rows of electric fence. So, anyways. This is her last year and you know, she asked can we

have them at this house since this is the last year I would you know, the last chance having the steers and we hemmed and hawed about it and hemmed and hawed about it. We like all right, let's do it.

You know, this is your last year. It's about 11 months by the time they come to the house hopefully next week the week after when we have everything all set. The auction is next September and then

they go off to auction. No more steers. So, with that all being said, every day she you know, goes to school, she works and then she drives to Douglas to our friend's farm where the steers are now and

she feeds them and gets home 7:30-ish every night, 7:00 7:30. You know, she skips a night here or there. The family that owns the farm feeds them. The thing with the steers is you really want to bulk

them up. The bulkier they are, the heavier they get, the more money they get. For like her steer she sold was 1,000 lb. She got about 7 grand for it. She's hoping to get these two much higher. To do

that you have to feed them twice a day. Feed them in the morning, feed them grain. We also will have big round hay bales. So with feeding them the grain, she has to be at school at 7:50 and she

doesn't have time to get there in the morning to feed them. So we thought, let's do it this year. Let's give it a shot. Do the best you can get. They also compete in the shows, you know, for grand

champion, reserve champion, all that stuff. So we're bringing them to the house. Is what's happening. And um there were some complaints. One of them was where the pen is, where the wells are. So we

did have the pen on the side of the yard. So we moved that into the backyard. So now it's double fenced in, further from the well, probably 150, 200 ft. >> Over 100 ft? >> It's past that. >> Okay. >>

Well over that. So the pen is well over that. The manure pile, where the manure pile will be, is well over that also. Yep. >> On the manure pile, do you have it in a closed in area? >> The container.

>> Contained area? >> Yes. >> Do you have a roof over it? >> No. >> No. >> All right. >> I spread it on my garden. I grow pumpkins. >> Okay. >> I spread it on my garden. I grow pumpkins. >> Yes, but

as long as you have it in a contained area, but >> We also have a plan to have it removed. >> Okay, but >> Other people in town they have that done. >> You know, yeah, the thing I suggest maybe put a

roof over it so that so the rain for any for any complaints, okay? Right now I have three donkeys, well, one of them died, but I had three donkeys and two horses next to my house for over 20 years. No

issues, okay? >> So a cover over the manure. >> I that would probably alleviate some of the complaint. That's my recommendation, okay? >> I well noted. Thank you. Um and like I said, we do have

someone um we know who removes manure, does that for a couple of our friends in town that do that. So, it's not a manure pile that's just going to grow over 11 months. Um, it will get periodically

removed. Um, you know, we have a plan in place for flies. The we use metal barrels with tight lids for the food. Um, that's pretty much, I think. Oh, we also lined the property line, um, with hay

bales. So, if there's any runoff, the hay bales would collect the runoff, also. >> What size acreage do you have these in? >> We only have about an 1.02 or something like that. 1.04. >> They also have

this like, uh, a sock with stuff in it which lot probably Yeah, you can stake in probably be a little bit less expensive than hay bales. >> yeah. >> I I don't know if they get to right. Okay. >> Cuz

feeding them is not cheap. >> There are hay bales currently in place. >> Right. >> Yeah, but I'm just saying they could use that silt sock, I don't know what they call it, but yeah, it's >> It's water

socks. >> see them a lot at construction sites and everything. So, I I think I don't know if we have any other info to share. >> No, I mean >> So, you're going to have them in a grassy area, not a

field. Are you going to rotate them anywhere? You because it's it's just a matter it's not very long before they all the grass is gone because of the >> have the the big round hay bales. >> Yeah, but

I'm talking about the grass. It's going to turn to dirt. >> Oh, yeah. >> You're going to have You're going to have runoff. You're going to have >> So, >> It's far enough away and with any runoff is

going to go through 80 ft of lawn. Like I said, we have the hay bales. >> How are you going to get water to them in the in the wintertime? >> The hoses. >> The freezes. >> No, I know, but we we've

been doing this for years and years. So, you have to break up the top of the water. You have to shut the water off in the hose, obviously, but you have to fill it every night, break the ice every day.

>> The rule of thumb with rule of thumb with farmers is they want um 2 acres per animal. Do you have a shelter for them? And if What does the shelter look like? Is it three-sided? Is it I mean, how do

you protect them from the sun? >> There's only two sides and a roof on it right now. Do you want to see pictures? >> So, a lot of >> beef cattle steer beef steer don't exercise a lot. They're actually

not >> No, they don't. They eat >> So, you don't need 2 acres because you're feeding them grain and you're feeding them >> It's It's the dirt. It's going to turn to mud. It's going to turn to mud and

it's going to be uh a mess. That's why the farmers rotate the animals out. Why are you moving them from Douglas to a residential area so close to houses? >> My daughter wants to feed them in the

morning as well as evening. So, she doesn't have time. She's been trying to do it, but getting up at 5:00 a.m. to go feed in the morning before school is becoming tough and it's tough for her in the

winter. So, she wants to bring them to the house so she can feed in the morning and in the evening. That's the main reason. >> Yeah, and how are you going to stop the uh flies and the smell? How are

you going to stop all that? Cuz you're going to have flies. There's no guarantee. I mean, you are going to have flies. >> Oh, yeah. Right. >> But, I mean, you have a plan in place for how do you get

rid of the flies? >> Well, if you use the bags that collect the flies and you hang them up by the manure pile, you hang them up in the back, you hang them up not near the houses. You wouldn't hang one

like on the property line that abuts their house. We hang it >> I saw the fence. You You're close to your house. You're close to the neighbor's house. So, where's the neighbor's well? >> It's in the

front yard over in two >> It's actually on our property. It's on the front lawn. Yeah. Um it's by the street. The well's probably 10 ft away from the street. >> And how far away from where the cattle

are going to be? >> About 180 something feet. >> 180 ft. >> So, I mean >> The thing with if you look at the bylaws and the right to farm right to farm bylaws it's supposed there's >> Yes. >> amount of

>> You guys should step back from the microphone. >> No, you guys are doing a great job. Sorry, just when you got that way. >> Oh, sorry. >> Can I read this one? >> I know what the we know what the

bylaws are, but it's it's the conditions that are unusual. >> a normal amount of smell, noise >> You got the smell, you got the flies, you got the neighbors so close. If these animals aren't content,

I don't care what you put up for a fence, they're going to go through it. That's how these animals act. >> That happens all over town all the time. >> Yeah. I mean, if they're not happy, they're not

content, then they don't get enough fresh water, food they don't like where they are, they don't have enough to move room to move around, they're going to go right through the fence. >> So, these

animals are extremely well taken care of. They're pampered every day, twice a day. They are. I mean, my daughter won champion lightweight steer this year at the Big E. To give you an idea, she's

They're extremely well taken care of. Far better Far better than >> They're young then. They're young. They don't Yeah, they only They only keep them for what? 18 24 months and then they go. >> Right.

Yeah, they'll be about a year and a half and then they go up for the slaughter at the the auction at the Big E. So, but up until then these animals live the life of luxury compared to most cattle. And

they're very well taken care of. We halter them every day, take them out, walk them around, work with them, feed them extra grain and all that. We take them to numerous shows. There's 15 or 20

different shows we have per a that we take them to. all surrounding states and pretty much all of New England except Vermont. We take them to New York, Pennsylvania. There's even a show in Virginia

that we had to go to so these animals animals get handled every day there. Like trained, they have to walk around the ring in a certain way and stand a certain way and they're not just like stuck out

in the field and abandoned, you know. They're very >> you protect them against the sun? >> That's what the shelter is for. >> That shelter is big enough to handle them, the two of them? >> Yeah, it's

20 by 10 so they'll only be in there on a sunny days in the during the summer they'll go in there. >> What color are they? >> One of them is black and white and the other one is called a blue roan

which is a mixture of all kinds of colors kind of rust and all. >> Cuz the black ones it it the sun's hotter on them than the the lighter colored ones. >> Right, that's why we keep them under cover

during the daytime in the summer. >> And >> When did you say they were coming? >> They're in Douglas now, right? >> Yeah. Yeah, we're >> Hopefully this weekend or next >> next weekend. >> And you said

until September? >> Yes. >> So about 10 11 months? >> Yes. >> Have we gotten any complaints from any of the neighbors on these? Oh. Do you want to >> I was going to stand up and talk after they're

finished. If I can. And our area is rated R1. >> Yeah. >> All my neighbors have cows and >> Yeah, you have a farm right next door to you. Yeah, a big farm. Right? >> They don't have animals. Down the

street. >> Down the street has farms, too. They have animals. I'm I'm familiar with the area, you know, because I live only a couple of minutes away. So I'm familiar. Is there any uh streams or

wetlands near your land? >> There's a stream way back in the woods. There's a beaver pond back there. Stream used to run out of that behind uh you know, the Novaks and the Porters, they used to run

behind their property down to the Bedrosian property. It's now. Um but that stream has dried up cuz the beavers have dammed it. So, there was a pond I don't know, it's like 4 or 500 yards away from

the house or something, but up in the woods but besides that, there's no streams or anything other than the Blackstone River at the bottom of the road. >> Oh, that's that's a distance, the Blackstone,

I believe. Yeah, that's not right there. >> That was my last question. >> Yeah, I think we're concerned, the board is basically with the smell, the handling of the manure, the flies. I don't know if

they they're noisy animals. >> Um usually only when they're weaning, which we're not going to have calves. >> Yeah, because I know some >> Yeah. >> I mean, you can hear them. I can hear them on the

hill all the way down. >> Yeah. >> You know. >> I mean, they might like if it's time to feed them you know, 6:00 at night, they might moo, like stand at the gate and moo. Like when we show up to the

farm in Douglas, that's usually what happens. They get excited, they see Eileen. >> Yeah. >> You know, and they see her with holding buckets of food. >> How often do you have the cow product removed?

>> The manure. So, that >> yet cuz they're not there. >> Yeah, I think my friend does it monthly, she said. >> That probably would help reduce the odor situation, okay? That's all I'm saying. >> You

don't have the animals on your property now. So, what complaints have happened? >> We're going to see if >> Concern. >> I have I mean >> What might happen? >> I think I said, I'll give them a chance

to express what they're doing, but >> Oh, you have to if you're going to speak, so you have to come up and introduce yourself and then >> I was waiting for them to finish. >> All right, we'll we'll

hear from your neighbors and then okay? >> Okay. >> Any other questions for them? I don't do you have any other questions for them? >> Not right now. There's no complaint so I'm not sure why they felt

they needed to present to the board. >> We mostly wanted to explain what we're doing and so people could understand what we're doing, what the plan is. >> We appreciate that but you know, we can't

take a position in negotiating >> unless there was unless the cows were there and there was a complaint but it's it's it's a confined area. It's not like you know, the farmers where they have acres

and acres and I don't know if you took a ride out there. >> and they're zoned for it. >> They're zoned for it but >> Well, that was a farm at one time the whole area when I was a lot younger. >> >>

What? >> The Boria's farm. >> No, it was Chase's farm. It was a big farm. >> Um Amy, Mr. Flossy had asked me. He called and said he wanted to make sure he was doing everything right. I am not a farmer

and so I asked if they would like to come to the board since we already had a neighbor also calling with concerns. And so he is asking to do everything right. He has concerns and so I said let if you

would like to it was up to them if they wanted to come to the board and explain what they would be planning on doing. >> Does the board have any restrictions to what they're doing in the bylaws cuz I

couldn't find any? >> We have they are allowed to do this. That's why I said you are welcome to come to the board and explain what they are doing. Um So just so you are aware of the situation because

this neighbor has some concerns. So No, there are no restrictions. I also called the state agriculture um Mike Cahill to see if there were any thing restricting this from the state and he said and I

quote the state remains silent on this. That's what he said to me. He said it is up to the board. It is allowed based on all of our bylaws and um unless it become a nuisance or become >> a nuisance.

These are big animals. These are not little goats and >> Unless it becomes a nuisance. Yeah. >> And unless it becomes is where I'm stuck. >> Well this is just a informative meeting. >> As soon as I'm

done speaking you'll have a better idea what the issue >> Okay. All right. We'll let We'll let you speak and we might call you guys back up. All If you want to just introduce yourself and your where

you live. I appreciate it. >> I'm Franklin Bartley I live at 6 Chase Road. Um my main concern is containment of the manure as you guys were always ask ask questions about. Um the property the problem

with the property they put it on is my concern is it's it's way too small for the two animals and the slope of the land is at a 23 to 24% in my direction. It's a slope that it almost eight uh I would

just 11 to 9% in direction of the well. The containment of the manure which they say it's going to be 180 ft but 180 ft would be in the woods behind the house. They originally set up a pen within it

was like 82 ft from my well. Besides that thing was where I expressed my concern to my neighbor and I said that's just too close to my well. So he said well you know if I would stop complaining is

exact words he would move it. I just said well it's not a matter of you know where it is. It's just that as you brought up is I I've dealt with animals my whole life. My My grew up on a farm. This is

going to be a disaster in like 2 months. These cows just don't stand around waiting for people to feed them. They do make noise. If you don't feed them, they get very disruptive and they start moving

and they don't like it. Then that's when they break out. The neighbor had a good about I think 13 or 15 in between 13 or 20 cows something in roughly and they have 100 acres and the cows were through

my yard. They you know and um they're just impossible to contain basically. Not only just contain the animal in the structure itself that they had put up is not maintainable. The first We live on a

hill. I have a structure similar to that one but it's a very heavy duty one. I've already been through four four covers on it. They don't stay together. The wind is ridiculous. First snowstorm, if

they're not out there until 2:00 in the morning cuz I do it every time with mine. 2:00 3:00 in the morning get out there and clean this roof off. The type of structure they bought it is a flat roof.

It looks like it's got a peak but it's flat. It has to be round domed. The the the you know the type of structure you need is a is a is a solid um hurricane grade. The steel, the aluminum, everything

that's put together in the structure that they bought is going to fail. Absolutely guarantee it. I've been in construction my whole life. I've had these structures my whole life. Everyone has one

sitting in their driveway destroyed from the New England winters. So the slope of the land to go back is this is an impossible part that they cannot contain. They can put as much hay bales up as they

want. Like I said, I mean I've been in construction my whole life. The bales are temporary. They actually act as a sponge. So everything that comes down that hill is going to hit that bale and absorb

into the bale. When it's all dries up, it's going to it's it's it's containment of of you know toxic. It's basically becomes toxic as soon as it gets hit once. So unless they plan on putting up new

bales every single time it rains, that's not going to work. The type of bales they put down, they're just going to fall apart. There's no way to contain them. Like I say, now they we have to wrap them

and they have to be wrapped. We have to have a silt fence. It has to be a certain distance off of a property lines and the drainage of when it hits it, it has to drain in the proper direction. The way

it's set up, it's draining out my well. So, it'll hit the bales and redirect the water towards the well. Um >> >> like I said, I've been I've been a union carpenter for almost 30 years now and it's

just that it's it's a horror show. We just deal with it constantly and the and the sit I work in the city of Boston, it's impossible to contain the the job sites and um and nobody's running cars

around all day on them. So, it basically equipment or whatever, but so the the the logistics of the property when I'm in my backyard, I can actually walk out there when I used to walk my dog I my dog

passed, but I used to walk my dog and you can see the water running across the grass. It actually drains through the property, so you can see it running through the grass. I can see the the um his his

septic leaching field leaching through my yard. It turns the you know, it rainbows the water. I know what it looks like. It comes out of his yard through my backyard. It's impossible to you know,

because of that high water table having a river at the bottom of the road and a lake at the top of the road. It just it creates a very high structure water. From I'd say snow melt until June. May even

I can't even mow my lawn cuz it's completely saturated with mud. We have springs that come up all I've never even had to water my property. I have three or four springs in my yard. I have two in the

backyard and three off the side of my driveway. That you can go anytime of the year you want to stop by. I actually have a ice like literally like ice 2 ft thick in the side of my property cuz the

water does not stop running out of the ground. Comes right out of the ground. Joni, um the neighbor down the street has has told me many a time she calls it a well, but there's a well that they used

to water the cattle right off the up my property line adjacent to his right in the back corner. Which when I was actually clearing my property when I bought it was it was it's just constantly wet in

that area. It just just comes up through the ground. And back in the day they called it a well, I guess. So, um you know, I voiced my concerns with him. He told me it'd be good for my my grass. I'm

like, well, you know, on top of everything else my my brother owns a 60-acre farm in Douglas with horses. The flies are unbelievable. You clean it. I've taken care of it many many many times for years

and years. And you can clean it every single day. Do what you Do what you will, but hang all the fly strips you want up. You You know, you'll get stocking fly strips cuz you're never going to get rid

of them. And >> >> just the fact of the matter is that the way I look at it and and just the logistics of everything they're doing. It looks pretty. Right now, you take a picture of it. It's green

grass and it's all, you know, nice lawns and everything's all good. And that's not going to last long. And then when it goes south on them and that whole thing's a a barren desert up there and we get

a huge snowstorm and we have a nor'easter and it starts pouring out. All that's going to wash through my property. And it's been happening since I moved in in 2011. Every storm, everything that's been

in Jerry's yard has ended up in my backyard. And it just just washes down the hill. It's just the way, you know, gravity works and I think it's um it's an unfortunate thing. I mean, you know, if if

they you know, they wanted to get something done a certain way and it's just it's just logistically I don't I don't see it working for them. Um The only thing I mean, I I had some paperwork. I forgot

it cuz I changed my pants when I I came here, but I had it in my other pocket. But um I just had a my well tested professionally and put some filters and stuff on it. So, I have a I have all the up-

to-date testing on the water for my well. And just things I you know, trying to check off the you know, what what could possibly go wrong. Um and it's it's just the fact of the matter. It's just that

you can't have something on a hill that that steep at a 23% grade and and keep it in place. As you as you suggested, I just know as well as anyone um cows do not stay put. They all it takes is, you

know, one traffic jam that someone got stuck in and they didn't make it home. And the cows ain't waiting around. So, um and all that, you know, being said and everything, I think that I'm just trying

I just wanted to come here and and voice my opinion with you guys and just let you know exactly the situation that I live in and and how everything works in that in that in from yard to yard. And um

and as it goes from today when I moved in to now that, you know, he's he's Jerry's, you know, saying that he's going to take care of these cows better than you've ever seen in your life and all this

other stuff. Well, um as it goes right now, he's already like where he piles his compost is already he's already pushed it 4 ft onto my property and destroyed a fence I put up. And where he plans on

putting his manure is his what he calls his his his uh garden, which he just put in place I think 2 years ago or last year, is is right on the hill, right where he had the paddock, right on top of his

septic leaching field that I already know is leaching through my yard. So, if you're going to just start stacking more stuff and and you know, you're going to create an issue. It's just going to be

there's no feasible way in the in the size of their property that I can see any place that they could stack manure, you know, without building a like this extravagant containment building with

concrete floors and walls and and roofs and and things like that to contain it. There's just this I just can't see it unless they have some kind of, you know, engineered documents from an architect

that could prove that they could do it. There's no possible way. Like I mean, this is what I do for a living. It's just like now when we building built Boston and we build buildings all the water in

that whole job site has to be contained on that property now. Everything that can't nothing can flow. So, they've had stringent laws. You say you guys might not have bylaws and everything, but when it

comes to containing manure and runoff and this toxicity of the of the water that comes off, there's a lot of bylaws and a lot of things that will will protect me, you know, when this happens. I just

don't want to go to the point where now we're in this huge, you know, lawsuit or battle because it's just it's just gone so so out of control that the stuff's flowing into my yard. And and and I just

don't see how it can he can possibly stop it. Laying down bay hay they're they're just going to rot in the ground. They're going to get covered in snow. They're going to freeze. And then they don't

absorb it. They're not going to nothing gets absorbed after the frost. Once they freeze they get frozen. Hay bales that you lay down just rot. They become it's just it's just grass. All it is all hay

is is grass. It's not like it's it's like some kind of composite material that is impenetrable that is going to contain all this stuff. It's just it's not the way it works. It looks good, you know,

you can throw them down and make it look like you've made a big effort, but you know, and it's just you know, and like I said it redirects the flow. So, when you have a heavy flow of water that's on a

frozen bank which is going to turn into a snow bank, it's going to freeze. And then when the water runs into it, it's going to run down the hill at my well. And it's going to contaminate my well. >>

What type of well do you have? >> Um I think it's like 180 ft. >> What type? >> What type? >> Yeah. >> It's drilled with a with a >> bedrock well. >> Bedrock, yeah. >> All right. You got a water

quality report? >> Yeah, I did. >> Certified lab? >> Yeah. Yeah, I just >> State certified? >> Yeah. Yeah, I paid for it, yeah. >> Oh, we like to see that. >> Yeah. >> All right. >> I had it in my

pocket, like I said, and I changed my pants, so I'm sorry about that, but I do have it. It was done by the water company that's It's right next to >> No, I want to know if it's a certified state lab.

>> It's Well, >> It's got to be a certified state lab. >> So, okay, I can look at it. I didn't I didn't uh >> Well, I thought these other labs don't mean anything if it isn't state certified. >> Okay.

Well, I I'm not sure what he used for a lab, sir. >> Well, >> I'm going to save it, but it's just, you know, >> Well, if you >> It was >> raising a complaint on your water quality and that, you got to

have it done by a certified lab that's that state approves of. >> Okay, well, >> Not any run-of-the-mill, okay? So, bring that evidence in. >> You can uh You can drop it off at the below Yeah, I can

drop it off, and if it's not, I will have one done for you. It It's done >> Well, then we have something to go with. >> Yeah, yeah, just something to fall back on to. That's That's why I mean, I'm

just reading on Google, I was like, you know, and I'm just like, yeah, I'm going >> Well, you said you were in construction and all that, so you should know this if you're working in Boston. >> Oh, I

know everything's We certified, believe me. I got more inspectors on my job than than you know what to do with, but I uh So, the thing is that we do drain I do the foundation, so we do all the

drainage and the containment and and all the waterproofing and everything, so >> Usually for a gravel uh a gravel pack well, you might have more issues with water quality or runoff. >> Right, but they

said >> On a gravel uh a bedrock well is usually a pipe that's >> It's >> drilled into bedrock, so there's less infiltration. >> Yeah, but it's also leaches down the pipe there. >> No, what you said

is Well, is that means your well isn't sealed then if it's leaching through the pipe. >> Well, it leaches on the outside of the pipe. >> It shouldn't be leaching through the outside of the pipe. >>

No, I'm talking about the pipe itself. >> Yeah, you should have a waterproof you should have a waterproof seal on the top of it. >> What I'm trying to explain is that it comes through and it hits the

outside of that well. >> Yes, but pipe is set into bedrock. It shouldn't be leaking through >> Well, I'm just saying that's what they said that's what it says. I'm I'm not a professional. >> I'm not

going to argue with you. >> I know I'm not a well digger either but I'm just saying. But it just says that's what you you can my concerns would be if you have a well within I'm like I didn't you know

I haven't done any investigating into it. I'm just saying what they they want >> And what makes you think their septic is leaking? >> Yeah, well that's another you brought up the issue. >> that we >>

The leaching field so when you when you're looking at the water that runs through my yard right and but what happens is his house leaches towards my house. It collects in the side of my property. And

then it leaches off my house into the backyard. So at at heavy rain like I'm talking glorious heavy rain where it floods you can see the discoloration of the water running through the lawn. >> And how

do you know it's it's it's >> Well, it would be I don't know it's just really because it's leaching field right there and it's on that slope of land. >> The animals are going to be on top of your

leaching field? >> No, they moved it from that but he's saying where he's going to store his manure. >> It's not on the leaching field. >> Where is it then? >> On the compost pile. The leaching field

>> Where is the compost pile? >> Way in the backyard in the woods. >> I know. >> my property. >> It's your property. We had it surveyed, remember? >> Yeah, I know I remember and the stakes there and I

have actually have photos. If you want I I did take photos of where the stake is and where their compost pile is. >> Is there runoff from your property? >> When they talk they need to be on the

microphone. I'm sorry. >> No, I don't want anyone to be going back and forth either. But I will repeat your answer. Is there runoff was there from your property to your neighbor's property? >> Not

that I know of. >> Not that you know of. >> all the way through the fence now to the other side So that was where their compost pile will be. So that compost pile is on the corner of our property. So

you have to have the they can't pile manure on the property line on a hill. >> Well, they said they would they said they were going to put it in a containment area. >> Well, they're they're not going

to contain that. They have to build it 50 ft off of my property line. >> Well, they could do it on the other side of our backyard. >> What are we going to do? You can't do it where you think you are

going to do it at at the opposed where you're opposing because that's just isn't that doesn't work. And the fact the fact is it's just like I said, logistically what they're what they're designing to

do is is just going to in in my mind and in anyone that would like look at it and examine what they're you know, saying which is um it just logistically doesn't work on a slope. You can't build things

on a hill that flows into Santos's property and contain it. Especially manure. I mean, a lot maybe something else, but it's >> So you're saying that your your property is built on ledge. >> Yeah, it

is. Yeah. Yes. >> Do you know how far from the top soil to the bottom of the ledge to the top of the ledge? >> [sighs] >> I would give it I actually do know it because I've digging for digging

footings I actually hit ledge and off the back of my right off the back of my house it was probably 4 to 5 ft below the ground. >> 4 ft, okay. >> How long have you been in your property? >> Since

2011. >> How long have you been on your property? >> 2004. >> 2004. Are you alleging that they're violating any laws at this point? >> Violating laws? >> Yeah. >> Well, I would think that if you have

to contain your manure what they propose is a violation of the law. Yes. >> So are you dissatisfied with the plans that they've provided for containment of their manure? >> I would say yeah,

absolutely. I mean, like you can't I I was I've been trying to express myself the best I can. >> I get it. >> no way other for me to say it other than that if you're on a 21% grade, like for instance,

like a handicap ramps can't be more than 8.4%. >> I understand, but what I'm asking what I'm asking you and I didn't ask it obviously well enough, is it your opinion that the failure is likely to

happen? Or is it is an expert's opinion? >> Well, I actually have 30 years in the field, so I would consider myself an expert on on grading. Yes, I mean >> Well, the manure is usually kept in a self-

contained container with a lid where water can't get in it, rain can't get in it, and it's emptied twice a month or monthly. So that it's not going to leak. That's usually how they do it when they

have animals like that. >> That's why I suggested they put a roof over the manure so we won't be able to get run off. >> They're going to They're going to extract it from the property. >> Right. >>

They have no exit and entry into that into that thing. There's no There's no road that goes into this containment area. So how are they driving through there? They're going to be driving trucks

through their yard on a slope? >> It's all they would take is a backhoe to drive in there, scoop it up, and put it in put it in a in a truck and haul it away. >> I'm just I've lived next to them since

2011. I've you know, I I I'm not going to get into specifics on like why I think that this is going to fail. They had chickens they couldn't take care of. They had chickens they had to give them away.

I don't know. I mean, it's What was that? Like nobody You lost interest in them. That's what you told me. The kids lost interest in taking care of the chickens and you didn't have time for it. So it

just came out of your own mouth. >> Okay, okay. This is This is not going to be for many years. This is only going to be for 10 months. And you know, we're going into the fall. We're going into

winter. >> Yeah. >> You know, then we hit the spring. You know, you're not going to have flight flies in the middle of winter. You're going to have >> the problem with the winter is the snow. And then

it it it creates an ice an ice dam and it's got an ice loose, you could say, out of their property into my property. So, if you add cows and manure >> The manure is not going to The manure is going to

be self-contained. >> What is it? >> They're going to pick the manure up. >> Where? See see >> it in the container. >> You >> I think what we're struggling >> somebody of something that they haven't

done yet? >> I'm not accusing them. >> Well, that's what you are. You're saying they're not going to >> What? >> I didn't accuse them. >> I think the problem that we're having is what Ron is exactly

what he's saying. It's nothing's happened yet. It's potentially likely to happen. The issue that you are dealing with is you moved to a farm community. >> I'm not dealing with that. That's not my

issue. >> No. >> I'm not worried about the farm. >> They are a They're looking to farm. >> They're not farming. They're keeping cattle in their backyard. That's not farming. >> That's we're a farming

community. That's specific. >> community. Okay, yeah. So, >> I mean it and it's >> I understand that. In the farming law, that protection law, that's for commercial industries in in 5 acres or more.

That does not cover them. That that has not absolutely has nothing to do with them. They they they want two cattle in their backyard. >> That are going to >> to get two dogs and I'm going to just say

it, but if you look at it, you guys they can do whatever they want. to I'm going to voice my concern and when they and all goes south for them, then I don't have to stand up here and talk to you about

it anymore. Then it's going to go south. I mean, it's as simple as that. >> We hear you. Well, but we're not in a position to address something that's actually happening and we can't assume that

something's going to happen in favor of one side or another. >> No, I'm not asking you to. >> I didn't say you did. >> Okay. >> What I'm suggesting is is that you're both here communicating your

concerns that we all hear both and we don't necessarily disagree with either, but there isn't anything we can do. >> Right. Well, it's just a it's a matter of like pointing people in the right

direction, I guess. And I guess that's what you do, John. If something you see is wrong, then you should tell them, "This is not going to work and you're going to get in trouble if you try to do

this." >> But we don't know that it's not going to work. >> I'm just saying I didn't say that, you did. I'm just saying that generally with people that are and you know, experts, like you say, like

you're expert in your field, people ask to ask you for advice and you would say to them, "Well, it sounds like you have like a thought in your head that might work, but actually in the the precedence

of the slope of the land and the heading in in the wrong direction and everything you propose is heading in the wrong direction, generally you would say, 'It's probably not going to work.'" You They

They can take your advice or not. But I wouldn't sit here and say that, you know, we can't say nothing to them because there's no Well, I'm saying that we can say something, but I'm saying but

generally you would want to stop the problem if you know the problem is going to exist and it's going to it's not going to get better. It's just going to get worse and you're saying that the winter's

coming and all sorts of things. Nobody can predict what's going in the winter and what's going to happen in the spring, but the fact of the matter is all it takes is one nor'easter and that farm is in

my property. >> Is it possible for you to get some sort of engineer spec to support your position? >> Engineering? >> Not you. An engi- a spec that suggests based on the measurements of the land, the

measurement of the slope, the direction of the um water flow, where the hay bales are going to be, that that gives a little bit more. So, perhaps they can review that and and get outside of a neighbor

dispute if you if something is provided to them to show them more professionally and removed from emotion that maybe that they can then address and speak to it that way? >> I absolutely could do that.

But the fact of the matter is that they say I like I say I I've talked to um actually the retired head of the EPA. My mother is retired from the EPA paralegal and her boss I talked to her and and she

tells me exactly what you're saying. As until they create the issue and there's an issue there's no you can't stop them. Right? So what we all can do this and get as many opinions as we want and and

and and everyone can argue about that person's opinion. They can get an expert that says, "Oh, we're going to do this." Like I said if they had someone that knew what they were doing and it looked to

me like they know what they're doing and it's going to work I wouldn't be standing here. The reason why I'm standing here is cuz what I do for a living and I'm looking at what they're doing and the

slope of the property and just by living there >> But I think I think they can put a silk fence and they can put hay and they can secure it so everything's going to hit that and stay there. It's only

for 10 months. >> It's hit what? >> On their property so that the >> The the hay bales? >> Silk fence and hay bales is going >> and hay bales? >> Silk fence and hay bales is going to stop it right

there. >> but it it the property if that was a square if it was a square lot that had only had drainage in one direction what it does is like I said from my experience is that it just redirects the

water. And I I understand that and it and it what it is doing is redirecting it at towards the direction where if it redirected it into the woods I wouldn't I wouldn't wouldn't bother me. They're

going to redirect it into the woods. But the highest point of property is in the backyard and the lowest point is at my well. It comes you know and so water should come down and hit their hay bales

which will be covered in frozen snow and direct it towards my front yard and towards my house actually. So it'll drain out towards the house. >> Whether they whether they have cows or not. >> What's

that? >> If they >> Well, if they just had hay bales there yeah, it would just drain water towards my house and flood my house, yeah. Which has happened they like for instance they left their hose on

one time and flooded my my whole yard and my house. >> But we're not we're not here to solve the problem of the water because we're here to we're here to deal with the animals. >> Right. >> And if

they put silt fence and hay bales any thing coming from the cows if they have don't happen to pick up a little manure it's going to hit that and stay there. We can't correct the water problem in their

property going into your property whether there's cows there or not. >> I'm saying is that cows and not that's not that's not what I'm not here about that. That's not what I'm talking about. >> No,

but you are you are here with experience from damage from runoff or runoff that exists. Are you folks ready to deal with significant liability should that happen off your property property onto this

gentleman's? >> You got to come up and speak on >> damage by something we >> You got to speak on the speaker, sir. That's on the speakers. It let's just play devil's advocate, yeah? And the runoff is

toxic and it does impact his well off the off the current numbers that he has and or it impacts um his quiet enjoyment of his property or whatever fancy legal terms want to get thrown out. Are you

prepared to deal with that liability because you're now on notice by virtue of a public hearing. >> Yeah. Does any damage to his well clearly there won't be but if his well or his house is damaged by

anything we do we would be responsible for that, yes. There's nothing we're doing that's going to cause damage to the property, to the well, anything by over guidelines we need to be everything 100 ft

away from his well. We're well beyond that. >> So the same question that I put to this gentleman I put to you, how do you know this? >> Well, I guess that's kind of a hard question to answer, but >>

That's the only question. >> Okay. So, damage to a well, like you you talked talked about something toxic would be leaking through the ground. We're talking about manure, which people pay money to

spread on their lawns and gardens because So, >> My question is is do you know this because of your knowledge, or do you have an expert that you consulted? So, we've got two neighbors who potentially

are warring now, who want to do something for their children, who want to protect their property to enjoy. Y'all are going to end up fighting. The cows are going to be on someone's dinner table. So,

you need to sit down and figure out a way to either reach a compromise, or someone's going to have to pay for something. >> Pay for what? >> Engineering specs, better security for runoff, damage

potentially to a well, loss of enjoyment of their property for cows. I >> Well, I mean, if there's damage to the well, you could show there's damage to the well because of something we've done, and we

would be liable for that, obviously. >> The silt fence and hay bales will stop it right there. They do it on the construction all the time. >> Right. >> And whatever comes down is going to stop it

right there. If you have to put the silt fence and double hay bales up, it will stop it right there. And it's only for 10 months. It's not like it's forever and ever. >> It can go on for years and

years. And the other route is where the pen is now, it's not even on the hill. It's on relatively flat ground. >> Can you dig a trench down the line of the property to the street, so it runs off that

way? >> That's where my well is. >> No, you can't. That's that's You can't go towards the front. >> Why? >> Because there's wells there. >> Oh. Can you Is there a way to run a trench somewhere between

where the runoff is and your property to redirect it? >> But the the problem is the the land slopes like this. So, you're saying you have a slope like this and a slope towards the well. The highest

point is the back of the property where he has his his his his containment area is not a flat area. Let me say, you can actually look at the picture and the and the building looks like this. All

right, but it's not flat. >> Okay. So, hold up. Do you agree with that that characterization that where you're storing the manure is at a higher point than where the runoff is going to be onto his

property at a lower point? >> Yeah, it's a higher point. >> Okay. So, we've Do you have a suggestion as to what they could do to avoid that runoff to your property short of not having the steers? >>

All right, the two concerns I have is that working with hay with hay bales and and and silt fence, it doesn't all last a year. >> So, what what does? >> Right. >> It it will last a year. I'm in

construction. It will last a year. That plastic silt fence will last a year. >> silt fence. He just said down hay bales. >> No, silt fence with hay bales. That will last >> at the moment. >> But that

will last. >> Do you agree from your experience that a silt fence would last until next September? >> If it's put in properly, it'll last. >> Do you put in silt fences? >> Yes. >> Are they expensive?

>> No. >> No. >> Can you buy one and put it in together without killing each other? >> No, he'll The homeowner will do that. You get it at Home Depot. You can get them anywhere. >> Do it yourself? >>

Yeah, it's just a stake. >> done right according to your neighbor. >> already Listen, I've already put a fence in the property line, all right? And he and he's destroyed it with his with his compost

pile. All right, he's already he's already encroached on my property and destroyed my fence with his compost. >> Okay. So, you You to putting in a Hold up. >> Right? So, then they So, at the at

legitimately Right? Like I'm saying, going from my experience I'm you know, I'm not an expert. I'm not certified. Right? I mean, I'm certified in a lot of things, but not in >> Right. >> manure

compost. Um but, I'm just saying but just looking at the slopes and the grading of the property is my biggest concern. Once you turn his backyard to dirt and I know you got We could have no slope. >>

It's a mudslide. >> Right? And it's going to be a warm winter. And a year from now, it doesn't take cows more than a couple months in that spot. He's He's He said he has an acre of land, but that's

his whole property. He's only containing these cows in maybe an eighth of an acre. It's not It's like Look >> What's the What's his zoning? >> Isn't it 2 acres? >> No, it's 1 acre. He has 1 acre

property. It's 1 acre. He has a fence set up around the fence. He has a He has a structure in the middle of a fence. And it's in the middle of his backyard. >> And how far from your property border is

it? >> It's probably I would say no it can't be more than 100 ft. Maybe 80 >> Okay. >> 70 ft. >> But, do for the first issue, do you think the silt silt >> silt fence >> would would resolve that issue

if it was put in correctly? With the co- >> With the slope of the property, you think it's like You understand I I know the construction, but when you talk about slopes, that's what I'm saying. When

you have a slope of this great of an angle >> Mhm. >> All right? Like I took a small level, I took a picture of where it would be. Would you like to look at it? It's 23%. 23% is an ex- like

extraordinary amount of Like you don't usually generally build unless you're in like you know, California. I mean, like in a hilly country that you would have like houses with this kind of a slope. It

just generates in our yard. It doesn't resonate to the front yard or anything. It's just the slope that comes out of his yard into my yard. >> that. So, is your is your are you able to answer if a

silt fence would prevent that problem? >> No, I don't think it will. Going by my What What I deal with at work every day >> All we're All we're talking about is from the animals. We're not talking

about the water problem. >> I'm not worried about the water. The water problem exists because he's going to have manure. >> In a container with a cover. >> No, it's going to be in his backyard. >> In

a container with a cover. That's what we discussed. >> And when it comes out of the cow, it lands in the yard. >> They pick it up. >> And the cow walks around. Unless he's out there every single day

picking up behind the cow, which he works nights. His kid goes to school. Who's there all day? They're there twice a day for an hour? >> They They will pick it up. >> fine. We find it's a full-time

job. >> Yeah. >> Full-time job. So, when he's at work all night and and you know, and I'm just going from experience with him and his other animals that I listen to bark all night long. Nobody's there

to be taking care of them. When the cow's out free in the middle of the night running around my yard, he's not going to be there. His kid isn't going to be out there by herself chasing cows around.

This is the problem that I'm going to deal with, not him. >> That's a These are what if problems. They have a cover. >> it's not a water problem per se. >> not water. What if? >> It's a water issue.

It's a water problem. And you're going to have a paddock filled with manure. >> We know that. >> Nobody cleans up every single pile of of manure when you have a paddock. >> Well, I have I've had three

donkeys and two horses next to me. And she goes out there and cleans it up every day and puts it in a pen. >> And they're in a stall, right? >> No, they're out roaming around. >> they have a stall? >>

Yes, they have a stall. They go in They go in at night, but she's cleaned it. And in all the 20 years I've had no issues with it. >> I understand that. I think we're all set. >> But they make noises

and everything like that, but it's nice to see the animals. >> I they have a problem with animals. Well, I have a problem with the slope of the land. >> She She I I'm downhill from her. >> You're down

Okay, well, she's an exceptional person, I guess. >> Well, I don't think she's exceptional, but she She's passed all farm approvals. >> But you're talking about a barn, right? You have a barn with a

roof that's structural. >> No, no, no, she doesn't have a barn. >> What stays on the What's it >> No, they have little sheds. >> Little sheds? >> No, running. >> Well, they bought a They bought a uh a

a tent from from Tractor Supply. I mean, it's it's not the same. >> Right, it didn't have a roof. Might I speak for a minute? So, the structure we did line with the cow panels and put stakes in the

ground and tie wrapped everything and secured it. Yes, it might not last all winter. The the structure, we will deal with that if it doesn't. But, also I wish our daughter was here to explain her

side, but she's actually in Douglas feeding the cows and probably picking up their poop as we speak. We have told her, and it was funny, we just had a the whole 4-H club over the other day, and the

4-H leader drilled into her, "You will be out there every day picking up that poop twice a day." Yes, he works nights. I'm home, my daughter's home. Yesterday, she and her girlfriend, they're both 5

ft tall, wrangled the loose cows in town, got them all back into the barn. So, she can handle them. She knows how to halter them, she can handle them. Will they escape at some point? We cannot

guarantee they will not. It happens. Could there be a storm and a tree branch fall? Could the power go out? We are doing all our can all the best we can to make sure none of that happens. If they get

out, we'll get them back in as fast as possible. >> If you can find them. >> Yeah, I know. Hopefully, they won't go too far. >> My suggestion with that structure, why don't you put a metal corrugated

roof, screw that on instead of the vinyl plastic? It'll be metal, last longer. >> Right. >> Oh, no, but I mean, my suggestion put a a metal corrugated roof over it and on the sides. >> what that's

what the the farmer in town does. He puts so that everything comes off of it and they can go in it. Yeah. >> You know that way the wind won't affect it as much and tear it. >> Right. Cows can be out

the barn they're at now, the farm they're at in Douglas, there is no barn. They There There's a couple of lean-tos and they can go in them. >> have lean-tos. They have to They have to They have to be

protected from the weather and the sun. >> Right. But people just stay out in the weather. >> They don't mind going in a lean-to. They don't mind the the cold as long as they have some type of

shelter. >> And we know it's going to get muddy. There's things There's shavings you can put down. >> What's your response to the concern that you're uphill from these folks? >> I mean I understand

his concern, but that's why we did the hay bales. They I can't say that. I keep saying that wrong. Hay bales. Um we are happy to do it's I don't know if it's silt or silts. >> Silt fence. >> The silt

fencing. We already moved the structure so it would be further from his well and further from his property line. >> Is it the furthest point on your property from >> Um no because there's a bunch of

trees in our other side yard. >> They have to have an area to roam around in. >> Yeah. So there's too many trees in the other side of our house. Um so there was another point I was going to make. I

forgot what If the the manure pile can also go on the other side of our backyard. >> contained in a cover. I suggest a silt fence with hay bales, not wattles. Hay bales are going to stop everything.

All right. Picking up the manure. >> And we realize those hay bales might not last I mean we might be replacing them at some point or adding to them. >> If you dig a trench and put this the silt fence

down and cover it with dirt. >> A little bit of dirt and then the hay bales. >> the cloth of the silt fence is below grade. >> Yeah. >> That will catch a lot of the water run off. >> It's It's the

hill the silt fence is plastic. So, it's and it will last it will last over a year. I've put many of them in and if anything coming down from the animals will be not going to stop the flow of the

water from the hill. That's been there forever, but it will stop anything coming from these animals. >> Can he put something around as well? Can he put a silt fence around as well? >> work like that.

No. No, you have to protect his property. I mean, if if you leach field >> protect the runoff from your property going on to his property. >> And usually the the silt fence and hay bales will protect

it. >> Okay. >> And yeah, and it's only it's only for 10 months. It's not like it's forever. >> Yeah. >> I thought you said it was from 18 to 24. >> No, they said they're going to auction in September

and then they'll be off. >> the big auction. >> Yeah, they said that for the for the cattle to get large enough. >> But usually 18 to 24, that's how long a cow is before they send it to slaughter. So,

you know you know, and then they usually want it a certain poundage before you know >> Wait, so no guarantee it's going next year. >> They go next year. >> They go next year. They're sold at the

auction now. >> They go to the auction at the big auction. >> Yeah. >> They all get sold. >> And you leave them there and come home? >> Oh yeah, they go right on the slaughter trailer. >> of the

auction they get on a truck trailer to the slaughterhouse. >> Yeah, they make they they go to the slaughterhouse. >> We're doing this for years like >> And part of the goal is a >> the soil and debris

after the fact. >> What do you get with an backyard? >> What debris? >> What's debris? >> Well, you got to you're going to have those silt fences and everything running down the property eventually >>

But it's our property. We can keep it silt fenced. >> Well, usually after after that's all done, they reseed the grass and they put it all back to normal and the silk fabric comes up. Yes? Oh, you

can't talk from there. You can move to a mic if you want to talk. >> And and the main goal of this is is for our daughters' sake. Is to be able to spend more time with them, train them more, work with

them more, and importantly feed them twice a day. And she just can't get to Douglas in the morning before school. The more she can feed them grain, the heavier they get, the more money she gets when

she sells it. And that >> is How do they taste really? >> Has there been any tension or issues between your two families prior to this? >> Yeah. Well, the tension is there because um they had they had

surveyed the lawn the yard when I had moved in. Cuz he was accusing me of driving on his property with my with a turf tractor. I was going to put a a childhood a trampoline and some things up. So,

that's when I put the I put up a a fence because the house was abandoned for years, just put a little background on it, and they were letting their dog relieve itself on our property, which I the dog

every day would run in the yard and relieve itself because that's what it did because nobody lived there. And um so, it became a problem and I put the fence up. And then he and he had you know, and

just stopped maintaining that property right there. So, what had happened was that that fence I put up got it consumed because he wasn't maintaining the property. So, he he just basically just kept

pushing all his yard debris all onto my property. Just keep pushing it through the fence. So, this is the problem. I took pictures of it, which um you know, which created that you know, animosity I

guess. And what I said to him when I when I saw him put up the original paddock, I said, well, you know, you can't have a paddock that close to with the slope and everything. So, he moved it and

obviously talked to someone and put hay bales all in and everything and all the stuff he's been doing. And I've been watching him every day come home, watching to see what he's doing, but it's still

at the end of the day going by my own experience with you know, a silt fence does last. A silt fence redirects water. Absolutely redirects the flow of the water. It doesn't stop it. Doesn't absorb it.

It redirects it. You can put hay bales there. They're going to And what happens with the hay bales? They become contaminated with the manure. I know you say everyone's like you guys for some reason

are concerned about the water flow. I have never mentioned I want to stop the water flow. I'm just telling you that when you add water flow and manure and if they don't clean up their paddock and the

and we have a nor'easter or for whatever reason it's frozen because it rains and freezes and and then you can't chip the stuff off the ground and then it then the nor'easter comes and melts everything

and it rains and it all flows into my property or it flows down into your silt fence that everybody loves to put up and dig a hole and it's going to redirect cuz of the slope it'll land at my well.

It's only can go in the direction of my well and my house and my front yard. That's the only direction the silt the silt fence will direct the water. And you know and you'll say it only takes the one

time of rain and freeze and the hills and all that's frozen and the water hits that and the snow and it's not absorbing any water. It's not stopping any water. It's redirecting the water and taking

all the water in the whole yard instead of consuming and spreading it out and it's redirecting it and creating a river. >> Okay. >> And I know a lot about silt fence and it just hits the silt fence

and takes all the water in that whole property and sends it in one direction. >> We hear you. It There's a There's I think we've heard enough respectfully. There's definitely a risk that there could

be some sort of impact and significant negative impact on your neighbor's property. There is definitely the possibility that something could happen from your neighbor's property, but nothing has

happened. So we're our hands are tied. I have said this before at a hearing. I sound like a broken record. It We appreciate the opportunity to to try to have it aired out, to suggest ways that we're

familiar with to resolve the issue, but we're not unfortunately in a position to say you can stop him or you can't. >> We're farming community. He has the right to have the animals. >> I understand >>

And if he takes these precautions >> saying he doesn't have the rights to do everything he's doing. I'm not saying that. He has every right to do it and have cows and you can have donkeys and whatever

you want to do. But another thing too is is it totally exaggerates like, you know, if I didn't like cows and donkeys, I'd be up here complaining about flies and the smell. So, I'm not going to be able

to sit in my backyard cuz I'm going to be getting bit by flies the whole day. I know what happens. They're not nice flies either. They're like green heads and all this other They're not happy flies.

They're big giant flies. But and then and the smell and he's saying he's going to contain the manure and he's going to put it right in the corner of our property, right in my backyard, right behind my

patio. It's going to be right up there on the hill with the wind blowing down the hill on my property. >> of a court telling you how you can do something on your property that may impact a neighbor,

it doesn't sound as though the two of you are going to come to any sort of agreement. So, whatever efforts you could make to remove the issue as far away from your neighbor's property as possible is

probably wise. And if you're convinced that that's not going to happen, some sort of private advice to you might be might be more beneficial than the two of y'all banging heads. >> We appreciate you

coming and we know what's going on there. We gave you some suggestions. And >> I appreciate that. That's why we >> You know, and >> We just wanted >> The the steers your your friends in Douglas aren't

making her take the steers off the property, are they? >> No. >> No, she's >> worse comes to worse, they live somewhere safe. >> Okay. >> That's not what you said to me. You said that they couldn't

you couldn't have them at your friend's house anymore, so you had to move them to your backyard. That's your exact That's why you were doing it. >> We're leaving them out there. >> Yeah, that's >> So,

we're leaving the two heifers there. We just want to bring the two steers home so my daughter can work with them and >> So, it boils down to a good benefit for your daughter, which sounds important. I

know for I know of what she does. I I'm a city kid. Um, but all right. More like a of both worlds. But, I think that um the repercussions, whether that well gets intoxicated or toxified or not, are

big. So, I Yeah, I mean the I mean the bylaws and whatever they everything needs to be 100 ft away for a reason. I think 100 ft away is Yeah, and you you understand our concerns and take our

suggestions. And I think I think I mean it's only 10 months. I think it will be fine. We're not going to stop you, you know, the way your land is. That's not You're not here for that. You know, just

protect what's there. Yeah. Okay. Well, we have There's also bylaws that protect my loss of use. I can't use I won't be able to use my yard. How can I sit outside my yard? Uh That again That again No,

that's the I used those words earlier. That free enjoyment of your property That's very real. It is very real, but that isn't happening yet. Well, I'm just I'm just putting it all on the table. I I

anticipate your neighborhood not being fun next 4th of July if I'm being honest. It's no way to live. He could be getting pigs. He could be getting peacocks. He could I mean these these There's no

loss of love between us that we weren't in love We weren't in love when we got here. So, I'm not worried about loss of love here. Yeah. So, it's not I think we're going to get along. We I Me and Jerry

have always butted heads on situations. He doesn't seem to see it my way. I mean, being respectful to your neighbors or not That's just me being frank. You don't get along with anybody else in the

neighborhood. All right, changing Okay, so changing the subject. I got to get on to the next Time time. agenda. Thank you. I appreciate Yeah, I I I will But, just so you know, okay, thank you. Issues

that may arise with those types of issues in >> Oh, yeah, I know. >> Okay. >> Oh, yeah. Yeah, exactly. I'm not I'm just saying but the thing is it like I'm just like I said when you come here I like

he was saying he's putting everybody on notice he had that if something does happen I've notified everyone of the situation. I've expressed my views on it. So, I just you know I just want to move on

with that. I said he can do what he wants to do. >> And it's on record. >> And if there's an issue then there's an issue. >> You can email me those or drop them off either way. >> Is that expensive to

do your water testing? >> No, I actually used the guy um God I wish I knew >> So, you can do it say every 60-90 days to sort of track it does anything >> Yeah, you have Well, you have to have it done

by a certified lab in order to be We >> We don't have well regulations >> You just need to speak into the microphone. Thank you. >> It is for new wells only that it can be environmental is for a

certified lab. >> I I but if you're bringing up a case against somebody >> It would end up being a civil matter. >> Right, but you would have to have a certified master certified lab to be a valid. >>

I don't know that. Yeah, you do. You just can't have anybody test your well. >> My question was merely can you watch your levels if the steers are brought to the property to >> We just put the whole

water system into the house the guy to to do it he said he had to run a test and he said which test would you would you like and I said I'd like it sent out to a certified lab so I you know knew it

properly. >> Okay, we get that so >> You know I just didn't know >> But you have a baseline which is one of the questions that I had for um Judy when I initially heard that this might be coming up as

an issue. So, I mean that's a way that you can sort of track those concerns. >> It's just going to be It's just going to be bacteria, love. You're not going to check test it for lead and arsenic and

all that. These animals have nothing to do with that >> just animal Yeah, I'm not sure if you tested for it. You honestly, I just don't know. I just know that it had been tested because I just in June

I put in a new water purification >> Yeah, and they usually test for all those heavy metals and stuff when they put that system in. They don't do that. >> takes a lab water test. It's got to be

certified. He has to follow a chain of custody. It's got to be signed. It's got to go to a certified lab to be signed. >> Right. >> If it doesn't follow that procedure, it means nothing. >> Right. >>

That's if it's going to be presented in this fashion. >> I 100% understand what you're saying. >> Okay. >> I keep repeating it, but I 100% understand. >> Right. >> Right. I I have I'm just saying I

had the paperwork. I'm sorry. I had my back pocket. I could tell you the answer, but I just I >> It's not It's not It's not not to worry. It's just an um an option for you to track and identify

concerns if they potentially grow. Again, if the property has the animals come to it. >> Yeah. Well, yeah. I'm just saying it's just it's not it's It's just a matter of just like putting everything

out on the table. I didn't want to just like you know, sit back and let all this happen and not not express my concerns >> Well, it's out there now. It's out there now. >> Okay. >> Good luck. >> Okay.

Thank you. >> Was there anybody on Zoom? >> No. >> I can't see that far. I can't see where if there's anybody on Do we have any um approved minutes to be >> No, I have no approved minutes. Sorry. >>

Do we have an update on the transfer station? >> Um yes. So, what happened to um He had to go. >> Oh. Okay. >> >> It exceeded his limit. Um, let's see, the transfer station is So, currently impacted

are eight homes, and they've expanded the radius another four homes that are going to be tested. >> On top of the eight? >> Yes. >> That's the transfer station? >> Yes. Yeah. >> Is it the stuff at

this dump that's causing the problem? >> The, um, >> You know, like Millbury. >> landfill. P- It's PFAS. >> Yeah, same with Millbury. Millbury had contamination. Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah, we learn

through our mistakes, so with the years. Yeah. What about Wilkinson water? >> Um, I I sent you the levels have been going down. >> Well, that was a while back. >> Oh. >> But, the level has been down.

>> Been down? >> Yeah. The last report >> seen anything recent. >> The last report I got to it, it was down. They don't send it monthly, so. >> No. >> But, they they had test They have to test every

month now, since they took a hit, right? >> I don't know how often they test, actually. They don't send it to me monthly, though. >> Okay. >> I don't know if it's every month. >> I thought they do it

three months. >> Yeah, three months, I think. >> Yeah, cuz I usually get the report. >> The three-month average is too much. >> Okay, any old or new business? >> Um, Way is currently, uh, doing a food

plan review for, uh, Chipotle. >> Oh, yeah, that's going up fast. >> So, he's working on that. >> On 146. Any any, uh, complaints on any of the, uh, food food facilities that are in town? >> No

complaints. >> No. Okay, I I a question, um, on a new business. If somebody sets up a stand on this in the front of their house and goes and sells pies and sells bread, is there any is there anything

in place Do they have to get >> basically, for them to do that. >> It's not allowed? No. >> Are they standing there selling them? So, they can they can be eggs and honey. >> and right, eggs and

vegetables and and honey and flowers, but when they're baking a pie or they're baking a banana bread or they're um >> So, they would need a residential kitchen permit, firstly, or a >> With an

inspection? >> With an inspection, yeah. And a food plan review would be conducted initially by Ray. Um they would need an inspection. They would need an annual permit for residential kitchen. That's

if they bake it at home. They could potentially bake at a commissary like a church or >> No, this is baking out of their house. >> Yeah, so it's a res So, it it's only for um non-potentially hazardous

foods. They have to be served safe and allergen awareness. They can only sell uh direct sales, so to the consumer. Um but they're not allowed to leave their product um at Wodyer Farms or at Sutton

Center store. They can't sell it that way and leave their product to be sold at somewhere else. Um they can go to fairs and things like that. They could go do Wodyer's Farm Day. Um things like that.

Or go to other towns and get a permit there. Daily permit, one-day permit, but um just to leave the product in front of you you can't leave the product. Animals could get into it, road dirt could get

into it. You can't just leave it there. >> But are they allowed to set up a stand and just put everything out in front? >> would depend on zoning. Are they zoned to be able to do that at their home.

Okay. All right. Are they allowed to to can fruits and vegetables and sell those? >> Um >> I would think they would have >> There are jams and jellies that are allowed in residential kitchens, but

some things are not allowed. >> have to have a residential kitchen to do that. >> They would have need a residential >> Not just decide I'm going to cook and sell stuff outside my house. >> Correct.

>> Okay. All right. All right. That's what I wanted to know. So, if if we see somebody doing that, we can >> Call me. >> Yeah. Okay. >> Do they live on Chase Road? >> Oh, yeah. Any other business or

any other questions? All right. Next meeting >> I just had one on the flu clinics. Do you know when the Do you know when the date of the next one is or >> It doesn't have any scheduled, but um I have

a ongoing um like anybody can come and do the QR code in the office and get an appointment, but you know, you'd ask Cheryl and >> Sure. >> um >> I can take my mom? >> I'm sorry? >> take my mom to get

a flu shot? >> Would you want to? Yeah. >> She's been asking me, but I don't want to take her to the drugstore cuz everybody's sick down there. >> Oh, yeah. Where were they sick? >> Well, you know,

the people come in and out of CVS and I don't want my mom sort of around that. With the sniffles and everything. >> Yeah, Cheryl's done Cheryl can Cheryl does it sometimes in the office if you bring

her in. >> I don't want my mom to be sick. >> She'll Just let Cheryl know and she'll Just call to see if you can cuz she's in and out and so she's at a conference this week, but she has a lot of

vaccine left. The turn the outcome has not been good for the flu clinics. The attendance. The attendance, yeah, it's been very, very low. >> Wow. >> Very low cuz it well, CVS and Walgreens, they

really they text you, come get a flu shot and >> Yeah. >> Um >> But I don't want to take her there. >> So, um But Cheryl had about eight flu clinics um that she's already done >> Yeah, for sure. Oh,

yeah. >> will do that if you if you call her, she'll bring, yeah. >> Cuz I used to get them that way, too. I just call and come in. >> Okay, okay. >> Tentative date is 2 days before Thanksgiving. Does

that >> Yeah. >> work for everybody or no? >> Yeah. >> Fine. >> Yeah, November 24th. Okay, does somebody want to make a motion? To adjourn? >> Colleen Rosales makes a motion to adjourn the meeting. >>

Ron Tencer seconds. >> All those >> Aye. >> Aye. >> Okay, you can