2026-10-26 - Planning Board

Time. Okay. >> What? >> It'd be time. All right. Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. Uh welcome to the October 26th Planning Board meeting. Uh with that, I'd like to do the Pledge of Allegiance. >> I

pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. >> >> Okay. Good evening.

My name is Bruce DeWalt, chairman and clerk of the planning board for tonight. Tonight's meeting is a hybrid meeting. You may participate in person or remotely via computer by going to zoom.us,

entering access code 826 2675 7924 or by calling in at 301 715 8592. If you're calling in, you can use star six to mute and unmute your phone line and star nine to raise or lower your hand. We ask

that all speakers We ask all speakers to please identify yourselves at the podium or online each time you speak by stating your name, address, and town of residence for the record. We ask participants

in person to use a microphone. Please address all comments and questions through the chair. This is a public meeting and is being broadcast on local access and is being recorded by Millbury Public

Access cable television, available live on public access channels Charter 191 and Verizon 26. The chair reserves the right to limit comments for individual for an individual on any one item to three

minutes and requires the public refrain from repetitive comments. >> >> Um let's see. Um we're going to be talking a lot about zoning and other stuff and I have an A&R here. Uh are you guys okay if we

move the A&R and other business up? >> No problem with that. >> he doesn't have to sit around. >> No, make him sit through this. >> If they want, they can sit. >> Okay. 40 Tainter Hill Road. >> Sorry

Bruce, before we do that, can you do the Adopt-a-Drain announcement? >> Oh, sure. I was going to save that. Okay. Um sorry. Um the town of Millbury is happy to announce the launch of Adopt-a-Storm

Drain. A program aimed at protecting area waters and reducing street flooding. Families, individuals, businesses, and other organizations are invited to adopt a storm drain. By commit committing to

keep keep it clear of leaves, trash, and other debris. The simple act of sweeping up around the storm drain prevents pollution from entering in our shared waterways and can help prevent street

flooding. You can sign up to adopt a storm drain at adopt-a-drain.org. Again, adopt-a-drain.org. Simply cre- create an account with your name and address and claim your storm drain. You'll even get to

give your drain a name once you've signed up. You can track your cleanings on adopt-a-stream storm drain. For questions and more information about the program, please contact the planning department.

Okay. >> You going to pick one? >> I don't live in Millbury. >> We're not allowed here. >> Okay, 40 Tainter Hill Road. We'll start with the A&R. >> Good evening. >> Good evening. >> Does anybody need

a Everybody a copy? >> Yeah. >> Uh my name's Craig Homberg. I'm from Allen Engineering and Associates. We are representing Melissa Petrillo and Lewis Shamarrow. Uh they have approximately 8.7 acres of

land on Tainter Hill Road. Uh which currently has an existing duplex on it. And they are proposing two lots to the right of that. Both lots have the minimum area frontage R factor um And the remaining

land is 8.2 acres with >> Good luck to you. >> more than enough frontage from the zoning according to the zoning. >> So we're talking about two Rs, is that what we're talking about? >> Yeah, so two R

Lot three and Lot four are coming out of what was Lot two. We uh we came in with an A&R a few years ago. Um cut out the piece that you see on there that says Lewis and Melissa Shamarrow to the left of

Lot two R. >> Yeah. >> So yeah, so three and four are now come out of what was the remaining of two to create Lot two R. >> Okay. So for this year? >> Yeah, go ahead, Frank. >> Why is there two Lot

two Rs? >> What's what? >> Oh all right, we have it out separated. There's There's two. There's two Lot two Rs. >> Because it's a is a match line. Lot 2R extends behind. It's a big lot, so I couldn't

fit it all. Um See See what's on the right hand? Lot 2R in the back says match line. >> Yep. >> And then if you look at the Lot 2R on the left, you see a match line at the bottom. That's where If you

kind of paste them together, it would show the entire lot. >> I see. >> So there is only one Lot 2R. >> Okay. So there's currently one lot. >> Yep. >> 2R is currently one lot. Okay. >> Frank, it's two

separate pictures side by side. The lot is too long from north to south to fit on one plan as one picture. So they split the lot in half. And if you want to get the full picture, you match it along

the match line. >> Mhm. Okay. Okay, so trying to understand what we're doing here. >> Yeah, me too. >> Um >> You only really need to look at the picture on the right. That's where all the action is

happening. >> Right. Lot three and four. >> Yeah, where they're showing proposed Lot three and proposed Lot four. >> >> Okay, I see. Okay, so we're proposing Lot three and four. >> Yep. Exactly. >>

Got you. Now trying to figure out Let's see here. Where we are on Tainer Hill. >> So if you take a >> You were here a few years ago, right? >> Tainer Hill Road. >> Yeah. >> Um it's There's one house

at the corner. And then that's uh then the next house is uh Lewis and Melissa's. And then there's a long kind of it's a long duplex, like an old barn that converted into a duplex. >> Right, I remember

that. >> Yep. >> Yeah, I remember that. >> And then the two lots are right after that on the left. >> Okay. Okay. Now, if I remember right, down the street a piece, there was an issue with water. Um

it could have been uh the Gagne people. I'm not sure. Uh What are What are you planning Are you planning on selling? Not that it's my business. Are they going to be sold lots? Or is that what they're

going to do? >> Yeah. I'm not I'm not sure. I'm not 100% what the plan is. Maybe single family, maybe duplex. But >> Yeah, we're just doing the A&R for today. >> Yeah. >> Okay. All right. And the

frontage is all there. >> >> Yep. What do you need? 20,000 square feet for this? Or for a lot? >> Um >> Actually 12,500. >> Can't remember off the top of my head. I mean, it depends on the sewer and

the water. >> Yeah, there's only There's only a sewer there. I don't even know if there's sewer and water. I know there's not water. >> There I believe there is sewer there. >> Well, that's >> We went

through that when we did the duplex. >> That's not the issue at hand anyway, but um >> No, it's not, but >> It's 12,500 if there's public sewer and water, 20,000 if it's just public sewer, 32,000 if

it's public water, and 40,000 if it's none of those. But the only thing the board should needs to look at is the frontage. >> Right. Right. >> 100 ft of frontage. >> Which they have for both for all

the lots. >> Okay. I know the lot size is big enough. I I thought it was 20,000 sq ft. >> Yeah, I think they have >> They got 28, 26. >> 26 and 25, yep. >> Yeah. >> Okay. Um Do we Do we have any um

public comment on this or is this This is just an A&R plan? >> Someone just makes a motion to endorse the plan. >> >> Got you. All right. Um do you have any questions, Melanie? >> >> No. Neither do I.

Uh Fran, do you have any other questions? >> No. I It's They answered mine. >> Yep. >> I'm sure there'll be When it comes to be developed, there'll be questions, I'm sure. >> Yeah. >> But in A&R,

there's not much we can do with it. >> Right. Okay, can I get a motion? >> Yeah, as soon as I find it. Okay. Motion to endorse the A&R plan for 40 Kenter Hill Road, dated October 5th, 2026, and

prepared by Allen Engineering and Associates Incorporated. >> Second it. >> Okay, I got a motion. It's been seconded. Uh all in favor? >> Aye. >> Aye. >> Thank you very much. >> You're welcome. >>

Wait. Should I come back tomorrow to get it or the signed version? >> No, we should sign it now. >> Or I can do Yeah. >> Or you can wait till the end of the meeting, but that could be >> That could be

a while. >> That could be a while. >> Uh I don't know if you want to >> No, we should we should just do the signing now. >> Much as it looks very exciting to hang around for the zoning article. >> >>

Well, you should because they might affect you. >> I live in Oxford, so. >> Oh, yeah, it won't affect you. Okay. >> >> Just go over to it. >> Yeah, thanks. >> It'll be easier that way. >> I'm on the

planning board in Oxford. We just went through a bunch of zoning stuff, so. >> Yeah. >> So, I'm good for good for a while. >> You've had your fill of this. >> This isn't your first rodeo. >> No, no,

no. >> My thing is next. >> We're doing We're doing it right now. Yeah, it was 10 years ago. We're doing a 5-year We're doing an update now. I don't think an update is any easier than the the

original, so. Yeah, so they're just just starting to send out for comments. We've got 4 or 500 people that responded, so. I'm going to say yeah. Thank you. >> >> I don't I don't think we have to do

that. Yeah. >> All right. Okay. Thank you for your patience on that, folks. Um we're going to we're going to go to 211 Riverlin Street site plan review and storm water management permit. This will be

continued to December 14th. >> Motion to postpone the SPNR and SW application to 211 Riverlin Street to Monday, December 14th, 2026. >> Seconded. >> Second. >> I got a motion's been seconded. All in

favor? >> I. >> I. >> I. >> That's unanimous. Okay. Uh let the fun begin. Public hearing on zoning law articles for fall 2026 special town meeting. In accordance with the provisions of chapter 40A,

section 5 of the Massachusetts General Laws, the Millbury Planning Board will hold a public hearing on Monday, October 26, 2026 at 6:30 in the municipal >> >> office building, 127 Elm Street,

Millbury, Mass., on proposed amendments to Millbury Zoning Bylaw and or zoning map proposed for the November 26 special town meeting. Okay. Um >> Do you have to save all the articles there? >> Um I

don't have to each read read each one of these. Um >> inclusive, something like that. >> Yep. >> Okay. Someone does need to make a motion to open the public hearing on the zoning articles. >> I make a

motion to open the public hearing on the seven articles we're going to discuss this evening. >> I second that. >> You got a motion's been seconded. All in favor? >> Aye. >> Aye. >> That's unanimous.

All right, we'll start with the solar. >> Um so first just to suggest a way to go about this, I'll give a brief introduction of each article, and then we call on public comment, then the board can

discuss a bit. Um I think the board should wait to vote on these until the next meeting until we have all five members here. >> But we can have some we'll have the public comment involved and we can

revamp it if we have to. >> Yeah. >> You're going to brief us, but the other two members aren't here. So you're then you're going to have to do it again. >> No, I don't want to do the briefing twice.

>> Well, that's what I'm saying. >> Well, >> If they watch the video, >> The other members will be required to watch the video. >> going to vote on these, why are we even talking about it? >> Because

we have public There's members >> Okay. >> There's members >> Okay. >> Yeah, I don't think it's I think we should have everybody here, don't you? >> I do. >> Yeah. >> You know, I don't think I don't

think you know, it's a three-member board. Doesn't work for me. >> Right. I agree. >> So, Fran, the other members will have to watch the video before the next meeting, and I'll make sure they do that.

Go to their house and force them to watch the video. >> >> I'll make sure that they know that they have to do that. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> So, by state law, the planning board's required to

hold a public hearing on all all zoning articles that go to town meeting. Planning board's required to provide a recommendation to town meeting. Given the timing of this public hearing and time town

meeting being on November 12th, um the recommendation from the planning board is going to be presented orally to town meeting rather than a written recommendation. So, just noting that for the public.

Um and with that, I will give a brief overview of Article 4, which is on the solar photovoltaic installations. This is a planning board-sponsored article. Also, the planning board submitted it to the

warrant. Um generally speaking, this article proposes to delete the existing section of the zoning bylaw related to large-scale ground-mounted so solar photovoltaic installations and replacing it with

a new section just called solar photovoltaic installations. Um the new section is more expansive in the type types of solar installations that it regulates. Not only does it regulate ground-mounted

installations, but it also regulates building-mounted, canopy, agrivoltaic, brownfield, landfill, accessory use, the whole spectrum of solar installations. Generally, the goal of the this new section

would be to replace the current one-size-fits-all permitting approach. Under our current bylaw, all large-scale ground-mounted solar photovoltaic installations are allowed by right in all zoning

districts in town, and they are required to go through site plan review with the planning board, but otherwise the requirements for such projects are fairly bare-bones, and most of the the submissions

and and and limitations come from the planning board's review during site plan review. So, this new bylaw would codify a lot of the things that the planning board has been doing, like requiring

emergency response plans, operation maintenance plans, decommissioning plans and bonds, financial surety, and the new bylaw would also um set different categories for different solar photovoltaic

installations, and then permit them differently depending on, you know, their size and what zoning district they're located in. So, some of the smaller solar photovoltaic installations would be

allowed by right in a industrial district without site plan review from the planning board. Those kinds of projects would go directly to the building department, and then the building department would

require the emergency response plans, the operation maintenance plans, all that kind of stuff that would otherwise be done by the planning board. Um some of the larger projects, on the other hand,

would require not just site plan review, but also special permits. Um and the planning board could even deny those kinds of projects, which is not the case now. Um so, that goes back to the idea of

creating a spectrum of different types of solar photovoltaic installations and permitting them slightly differently, well, very differently depending on their impacts on their surroundings, their

scale, all that kind of stuff. Um I think I'll leave it there. The other thing, again, I want to reiterate, um is that this does add a special permit component for some of the largest solar

photovoltaic installations. And I heard Fran at one of our previous meetings say that it doesn't give the planning board teeth to deny these projects. So, I did add a list of criteria that solar solar

photovoltaic installation applications have to meet if they're seeking a special permit. And if the planning board feels that those criteria are not being met, you can deny the permit and there is a

solid legal ground there to do that. Um so, just wanted to note that for Fran in particular. And then, with that, I will turn it over to the board. >> All right. Uh There's a lot of information here.

Um Fran, what do you got? Anything? >> Well, I didn't I don't want these things in residential neighborhoods. These things are large things. I also I don't like the fact that we allowed Route 20

whatever you call it over there, Blackstone to put one of these big things up without a perimeter fence. The whole lot is maybe fenced, but that doesn't stop anybody from getting in that photo

electric place. Just doesn't. Even at the transfer station, we required that they put a fence. And the fence is there. So, why would we not allow Why would we allow places to put these things up

without fences? I think they require a fence. >> Okay, thank you. Um Melody, what what do you got? Anything? >> We pretty much covered a lot of this through our previous meetings, so >> Yeah. >> I

like the idea of the fences, though. >> Yeah, that's a In my opinion, catch-22 because the property is fenced in anyway, but there is a lot of people walking around in that property that could get

themselves in trouble. >> There's also contractors and >> Yeah. Agree. >> You know, tradespeople, whomever. >> Yeah. >> So, you know, it doesn't stop anybody from going over there. >> Right. >> You

know, I didn't like that. And where is the um Victor, if I may, where where are the uh where's the paperwork that shows what plans what uh you conditions that you wanted to make? >> I'm not sure you

mean. >> You said you had you added some added some conditions. Is it in here? >> Oh, it's at the very very end of the article. >> Okay. Okay. I have a question. Uh Everybody's favorite word, BES. All

them things. Um I'm looking in here and Where did it go? >> Here it is. >> So, a system consisting of one or more battery modules for storing electricity any equipment needed to support a safe and

proper function usage of the battery modules and one or more physical containers. So when you're saying module are you talking about a container of batteries or are you talking about the average

homeowner who has 12 of them in his cellar to keep his house lit during a storm? >> Are you talking about Are you looking at the definition? >> Yeah. Battery energy storage >> Yeah, and you're asking

about the word module. >> Yeah. >> That's a good point. >> What is What does that mean, module? Are you talking about a container full of batteries or are you talking about individual battery packs

that are mounted on a person's house? >> I will admit I'm not totally sure. Um this was a definition pulled from the state model bylaw. >> All right. >> Um I think probably the former, not just a

battery pack. >> Okay. Cuz um I'll I'll just give you an example. My neighbor um he had some he had somebody I forget who it was came in put solar on the house and I think they were eight uh batteries

like 8 ft tall and they mounted them to the wall and they they put it in the cold room >> Mhm. >> in the entryway to their house. Uh I was very impressed by it because they will never be without

power. If the power goes out, it automatically takes over. And they're always charged if they need to be charged. But, what is the hazard of having something like that? Do we know? Probably not,

right? Are we talking about that being a module, or are we talking about cuz we got to be careful how we do this, right? >> If that were considered a BESS, so this says for the purpose of this bylaw,

batteries utilized in consumer products are excluded from these requirements. But, let's say that what your neighbor is doing would be considered a BESS, it would be accessory in that scenario cuz

it's just storing the energy from the solar panels on the roof. >> Right. >> Um and therefore allowed as an accessory component of the solar panels. >> All right. Okay. All right, so it's not the same

thing as what we were talking about weeks ago. >> No. >> Um >> No, that's all yeah. >> I just wanted to clarify that. >> Uh that was the only question I had. Um And that's in here, too. The accessory

part is in here as well. >> Yeah, so this this bylaw or this proposed amendment this proposed new bylaw doesn't really deal with BESS. Um except that it allows them as accessory components to solar

arrays because best practices nowadays is to uh include a BESS with a solar array so that the energy that's collected from the solar array can be dis- tributed to the grid sort of consistently at a

consistent pace. Otherwise, you get wild fluctuations and it's not as effective. Um >> Understood. >> Through this year. >> Well, go ahead. >> Correct me if I'm wrong. I believe that the state said

that if you put up a solar array, you must have BESS on the property capturing that energy that's coming from the solar array to then to distribute to the grid. >> I don't know if the state directly

says you have to do that, but I have heard that some incentive programs require it. Um so I talked to one of the applicants for a solar array that's coming up on the planning board agenda in the next

month or so and he said that it is required from some kind of program that he is involved in. I don't think it's like state law that a BESS has to come with the solar array, but there is some linkage

there for sure. >> but I don't know if that's uh Sorry to interrupt. >> Go ahead. >> But I don't know if that's actually considered uh BESS. That may be considered that power is being brought in

stored so it can be shot shot back out. Right? Right from the solar >> solar array from the solar to the >> to the BESS >> to the BESS >> the BESS >> to the grid >> and it goes to the grid, but I

think all of the solar places have one of those buildings on them where the power goes into and it gets transferred out. >> I don't I don't think all of them do. >> Yeah, not always and not always in

the sense that they're storing it for potentially long term. >> Right. It's going out as fast as it's coming in. >> Yeah, BESS is more about like storing it and then releasing it at a consistent pace.

So it's holding onto the energy. >> Yeah. >> Right, the the whole thing is that the solar arrays are producing this energy. The grid can't handle it. So it just disappears. That's why they said when

you build a solar array not a requirement, but it's recommended. So it may as well be a requirement. If I'm wrong. That you have a BESS to capture the excess solar. Makes sense to me. In the solar

array in a in a residential neighborhood, no. That's where I stand. >> Yeah. I see what you're saying. See what you're saying. >> thing it freaks me out. >> Oh, I know. It's not a good thing because

they catch on fire. The The federal government can't even tell you how to put them out. Remember we went through all that? >> through all this. >> Yes. You know, so I mean but they're just shoving it

down our throat and I'm tired of it. >> Yeah. >> I'm tired of it. >> Well, that's why I brought up the best thing to start with. Because I figure we might as well talk about it a little bit because it

involves solar and and if that's the way it's going to be we need a we need to Oh, we we need to put some bylaws together for that ASAP. >> we're going to do a best bylaw in in the spring. >> Okay. >>

In the spring. >> So, it'll be kind of like a uh uh um pair bylaw with this one. >> until we have our bylaw, right? >> Well, we're going to do this first just cuz we were short on time. So, we drafted

the easier thing first which is this. And then we're going to work with CMRPC over the winter to draft the best bylaw. Um Fran, to your point about allowing them in residential districts, I mean

currently the table in this proposal does allow the solar photovoltaic installations in residential and suburban zoning districts. But it only allows them by special permit and site plan review in

residential districts. So, you'd be able to deny them um if they're on a lot or of a size that's inappropriate according to the planning board. And then for suburban districts where there are some

very large lots in town that um I think would be appropriate for solar solar photovoltaic installations, they're allowed by site plan review. So, the board can review their their placement, make sure

that the screening's appropriate, that there's appropriate setbacks, all that kind of stuff. >> Okay, good. >> Yeah, go ahead, Mel. >> So, we don't have to worry about um before the spring of getting

these regulations set for the best, we don't have to worry about having some other best site like the Sycamore Street one. >> Oh, no, we don't have to worry about that. Oh, it >> It could be tomorrow.

>> um regulation-wise, we don't have to um allow something like that in a residential area until Well, we don't want to allow it, but with this going through this in this um town meeting, it won't

start How do I word this? >> Well, it touches base on BESS, so. >> We don't have to worry about being required to allow something like that before then, before we get those uh >> No. >> particular >>

No, I mean, I don't want to say you do have to worry. Um the BESS rules in town are not changing. So, in so far as BESS has have been allowed under our zoning bylaw up till now, that will continue to

be the case until the spring. So, yes, a developer could come in between now and then and propose a BESS facility. >> Are we allowed to deny it, or do we have to allow it? >> Um I'd have to look more

closely at the permitting for a facility. I depends how large it is and all that kind of stuff, but from what I've gathered from previous BESS projects is that it would be required it would require

site plan review and nothing else, which means that you do have to approve it. You just have you get the ability to review the site design, its location, all that kind of stuff. >> So, what is the

chair? >> Good. >> I just don't want to get hung up on the best. No, I'm this is going to be real quick. These best is it's yet to be determined whether or not they are considered a utility. A utility

we cannot deny. So, it's yet to be determined and it's in the courts right now. So, we don't have to approve it. If one should come forward, it's sitting in the courts right now. Old Cam's Old Cam's

got a big one going on. And it's sitting there, they're fighting it out. >> Right. >> They're trying to say they're a utility. The other side's saying, "You're not a utility." >> Right. >> And so,

they haven't yet to come to that conclusion. So, my opinion, if one comes before me tomorrow, I'm voting no. >> Okay. All right. Um I'm going to go with Steve. I'll go with Steve. I was going to make

him wait a little longer for >> >> Oh, you're bad. >> Mr. Stearns. >> Mr. Stearns from the road. Um so, I have a question related to this. Um it's my understanding from watching the selectman's

meeting that the what used to be the sewage treatment plant in Millbury on Providence Street is putting forth something to have a solar farm there. Do either you, the board, or Victor know about that?

Cuz I've heard nothing about it other than that mentioned at the selectmen's meeting, and I don't know if somebody can talk about whether they're just looking for funding for that now or approval for

that, and then they'll have to come before your board for uh site plan approval or review or some other type of permitting. I don't know if any of you can answer that. >> Uh I haven't heard anything.

>> Yeah, I can answer that. Um I am aware of the project. I believe they're going to town meeting for funding. Um they have not come to land use departments for any approvals yet. Um I'm not 100%

certain what approvals would be required if they're subject to this new bylaw. Uh I think I think they're in an industrial district, and the size of the solar array would make it approved by uh it it

would be a by-right project. Um but again, I'm not 100% certain of that. >> How does it How How is it a by-right product a project? >> In What do you mean how is it a by-right project? >> Um because

of because it's in an in an industrial zoning district. I mean, this is based on the new bylaw, not our current bylaw. Uh it's in an industrial district and not a very large facility. >> So, it's >>

So, I think it would fall >> passed that bylaw that can allow that. >> Correct. >> So, why are we passing the bylaw that would allow that? >> Well, uh because >> curious. >> Well, >> [sighs] >> the

Like I said before, the bylaw creates different categories of solar photovoltaic installations. It is more strict on larger facilities, especially when they're located in residential zoning districts,

and less strict on smaller facilities in industrial or business districts. In this case, this is a medium-scale facility in an industrial district. Um so, based on the chart in this bylaw, it would

fall as a by-right project. That being said, it would still require all the things that the planning board typically requires, an operation and maintenance plan, an emergency response plan, all that

kind of stuff. It that would just be reviewed by the building department under a building permit. >> So, we can't deny it. It's by-right. What concerns me is that Providence Street is horrible over

there, and I don't know. I don't know what kind of noise these things make. I've never been near one, but a lot of residential area up in the back over there, Rice Road, Thomas Hill, all them roads.

>> So, to that point, this bylaw would require they provide an acoustic study that shows that the noise of the facility doesn't exceed a certain level at the property lines. >> That's good. >> But

that wouldn't go to the planning board. It would just go to the building department, and they would ensure that that's being met. >> Boy, this guy's going to have a lot of work. Everything's going

through the building department. >> too many of these all at the same time. >> Everything's going through the building department. >> Okay. >> Yeah. >> Uh Steve, did you uh did you have anything else?

>> I'm sorry. >> had a follow-up. Um since uh Victor just said it, that scale for that particular project, for what we know now, would go straight to the building inspector. That gives me a little

concern that the planning board could not implement anything for the acoustics, like the inverters, which are the cause of the humming that most people complain about, to be contained in a building or

behind an acoustical fence to protect the neighborhood. Uh where I live, not too far from U Mills, and a little further from Melody, but uh that that's a concern is the um constant hum that would go

on that these types of facilities uh produce. Um so that that's a concern for me. Thank you. >> Okay. Thank you. Um anybody else wish to speak on this? >> Oh, okay. >> Young lady behind Terry? >> Oh,

I'm sorry, babe. You've got a crooked finger. >> I do? >> Yeah. >> >> Yeah. Um hello. My name is Caitlin Leahy Barb, uh 20 Maple Lane, um and I just want to note uh I am on the Finance Committee, but

I'm speaking on my own personal behalf of this. >> Okay. >> Um so just a personal preference, I as a resident of Millbury would love to see more solar and that kind of development in this community.

Um personally, putting solar on my own roof is something I would like to do, but is also cost prohibitive for every single home to put solar on every single home and to put that all together. And I

know that something the utilities or some of the state is looking at is um what they're calling distributed energy resources, like almost looking at those kind of like community type hubs for some

solar, where maybe it's not this huge grand project, but maybe uh some solar could help support a handful of homes that are located near each other instead of it just supporting one home. And I think

as the utility costs get more and more expensive, having some of that solar in proximity to the homes is going to help with the affordability of all of this and I can see that for myself. I'd love

lower electric bills. Um and then also having it near where the homes are instead of it being like super far away helps when the power does go out. So that way um it's shorter distances for people to

respond to make sure that the power stays online and it's quicker to get those components online. Um so I know there's a lot of concern in general about the solar development, but I just want to put

it out there that I am personally a fan and would love to see more of that in Millbury. >> to that's a concern for me what you're talking about because 90% of these projects we talk about the power

doesn't come to us. >> Yeah. >> It goes to the national grid. And wherever it goes, we don't get anything out of it. >> Yeah, I I mean I think that's an opportunity for development within Millbury

instead of groups looking to sell directly to like National Grid or Eversource. If if an area is very restrictive about it, it's not going to be open to development that would look to have some of

those more um more of those resources located where the people are living for that resiliency type uh development. >> Mhm. But you're missing the point that he just said. >> Mhm. >> If they if they if

they put a solar grid in your backyard, you're not going to get that power. It goes to the grid. And it's only used at peak time or peak hours. So it's not a direct benefit. Solar panels on your

house? Yes. Solar array? No. There is no direct benefit to a homeowner. >> I- if I can just uh question that's seemingly the way things have been designed and implemented within Millbury so far. I

think my thought is that there would be opportunity for different types of development. Not just the street to the grid opportunity. So there hasn't been yet, but there could be if there were the

opportunity for solar to be located and installed near where nearer to where the residents are. >> I understand what you're saying. Yeah, but the opportunity that you have is to put solar on your

roof. Or solar in your yard. >> Mhm. >> Personally. >> Yeah, but she's saying if we could get it out of the if we could all have like I I got I have solar. I have I don't even know how many credits I

have. So in the winter time my credits get used up because I don't have as much sun. >> Right. >> However, I still have a lot of leftover credits every year. So I end up getting September and October

sometimes for free. No charge at all. >> That's a personal home owner, yes. >> Yeah, okay. So those credits, if everybody was to merge together, she's I I understand what you mean. >> I get what she's

saying. >> It could help everybody's power issue. But that would never happen. >> No, what are they going to But you going to get together and build what she's talking about with her. But you going to

get together and build a solar But you going to get together and build a solar array that supplies just your eight to 10 homes? >> I'm I'm not >> I'm not disagreeing that it wouldn't be easy to do. >>

Well, that's impossible. >> Maybe sometime in the future. >> If if I may add, I know there are maybe not developments around here, but developments in areas that are not as established, they're

looking at those neighborhoods and systems like if you're putting a, um, um, a new development with a bunch of single family homes, then perhaps that's something that could be integrated when those

homes are being designed to make sure that they get, uh, just like they'd get sewer or water or fuel or something, maybe electricity could be put in there. So, again, not saying it's easy, I'm a

little bit of a dreamer there. >> would be through an HOA. That would be fantastic, what you're suggesting. >> The HOA, if they wanted to do that. >> I have a question on that. >> Sure. >> Um, I Yeah,

I don't I don't know how common this is or feasible or, but the state model bylaw that we used to draft this certainly contemplates this, um, under the accessory use definition, it calls out

residential microgrids, which is what you're talking about, as something that would be an accessory use of a solar photovoltaic installation, and therefore it's more permissive under this bylaw than

an otherwise equally sized commercial solar photovoltaic installation. >> So, micro. >> Yeah, it doesn't necessarily mean it's smaller, but it probably would be smaller, but the idea is that it's

accessory to the residential development. >> Yeah, but who's going to pay for it? Who's going to build it? The residential neighborhood. >> Well, only time will tell, Frank. >> Yeah, who else is going

to build it? >> If it makes the houses a lot more valuable for a developer, that could be interesting to them. >> I don't think it will, but >> Um, anybody else wish to speak on the solar? >> What

took you so long? >> Okay, I'm all about power, but the only thing that has me concerned, and I hope I didn't hear it right, the building department is going to approve these things? Did I hear that?

That the that the building department has the authority to approve these? Um Did I hear that properly? >> Yeah, just just like anything else that gets built in town, the building department grants

building permits if the projects meet the requirements for that uh uh for that particular use or building. So, in this case they would review an application for a solar photovoltaic installation, make

sure that it meets all the design siting requirements and whatnot that are in this bylaw as well as any other applicable requirements like fire code, and then grant a building permit. >> Okay, now

that that never is going to set right with me because what's that's what's it is telling me like say for example up there at Rice Road. They've been through enough. And by the way, we did very well in

court. We finished on Friday. And uh we have to wait at least 6 months to get our final decision. But we I can't say officially won it, but we did very well, extremely well. But we have to wait 6

months for an answer. These people up there on Rice Road been through enough. And if they go ahead and put the uh electric battery situation down there right opposite on the other side of Providence

Street um that would be terrible. And and the reason why I feel like we should just rule out the fact that that the building department does this it should be brought before the public. And the people

in the area should even if it's only a small one, the people in that neighborhood should be able to listen to it and talk to it and talk about it and probably make some recommendations, but don't rule

out and don't do it behind closed doors. And unfortunately, sometimes I don't want to get ugly, but it should be out in the public in the public I believe. So, I wish that you would take that part out

about the building department and let them come before the planning board. The planning board knows what they're doing. And I'll let them make a quick decision. If it's small, it's going to be easy.

If it's big, it's going to be a little tougher. But, um please please put it back in the public eye in front of the planning board, please. >> This bylaw essentially um for the larger projects, it

would still come into the planning board. In fact, the planning board could deny some of those projects under this bylaw, whereas they can't do that now. So, it's a it's a mix. The smaller projects or

medium-size projects, depending on what district they're in, would go directly to the building department. The larger projects would still come to the planning board. >> But, there's no need for it to

go to the building department at all. This is their job. Let the planning board do their job. Let it be a public hearing, even if it's a little one. Please, I just ask you to take that out. That's all

I'm asking. Thank you. Thank you. >> Terry. >> Through the chair. >> Go ahead, Fred. >> >> I I kind of agree with her. I I don't like the fact even I What is What is this defined as small? >> Okay. Um

so, our current bylaw regulates uh ground-mounted solar facilities that are over 250 kW. Um the only over 250 kW facility under this new bylaw that would be allowed by right with no review from the

planning board are those that are located in in industrial districts. So, from 250 kW to 1 MW in industrial districts, those would go directly to the building department. Everything else would still

require site plan review and in some cases even a special permit if they're in residential districts. The smaller facilities under 250 kW, it's kind of a mix. So, in industrial districts, anything

under 250 kW would go directly to the building department as is the case now. In fact, now they're not regulated at all. And then um in business districts, sometimes they'd go to site plan review

depending on their size. In residential districts, they'd require a special permit. Um and then in suburban districts, it's a mix of site plan review and uh by right depending on uh their size. So,

that's kind of a quick overview. You have to look at the chart. It's the difficulty of going to from a one-size-fits-all to kind of a mix, a spectrum is I can't tell you that you know, so one-to-one

direct correlation. >> Yeah, I we discussed the chat last meeting, I believe. >> Yeah. >> I I just don't like the fact >> It's a So, it it's important to get the bylaw in place so we have something.

And if we need to tweak it uh in the spring meeting or in the next fall meeting, we can tweak it. We can make changes. That's correct, right? >> Yeah. I mean yes, you can always change bylaws. >> idea

is to have something cuz we have nothing. We need something. And um Terry's >> solar? >> I like Terry's Terry's train of thought. I like the way she's thinking. And um maybe that's something we can

work on and come up with a better plan on that. >> Well, can I make one recommendation? If the board's concerned about not If If you want to make sure that any project that would currently come to the

planning board continues to come to the planning board, there's only one small change you need to make, which is to make large one solar photovoltaic facilities require site plan review in industrial

districts. So, you're just changing that in the table. Whereas right now, it's just a by right thing. So, you just change that. >> Right. That's the way I feel it should be. I think you feel the same.

>> the same way. Do you feel that way, too? >> Yes. >> Okay. >> And the key >> I have an issue on >> the building inspector. It's not right. >> Marlene Mallette, 17 Canal Street in Millbury. Um I just

have one question. When something like this that would have such a big impact on the whole community, why does it not be brought to the full community to decide? I can understand like smaller projects

that come before the planning board and so forth. But when you have something so big that does affect the whole community, I feel like the the whole community should be able to hear about it at one of

our big >> That's what our public meetings are for. And we have public meetings about all these things. The The community is more than welcome. >> But then we have our annual meeting up at the high

school that big things are discussed, and I think that something like this should fall under that meeting. >> That's not how It's not how Yeah, it's coming to the town hall. I mean, it's going to the

high school. This is what's going up there, what we're talking about right now. >> Okay. >> So, we do these public meetings for everybody to try and get everybody involved, but only a few people show

up. And then it goes to the school and half the people don't even understand what you're showing up. >> now? >> So. >> That's our biggest problem. >> It it's it I think it's hard for a lot of people

having the planning board meeting during the week because people have school, they have work, they have sports, and it makes it very difficult to get here. >> I think the weekend would be worse as far

as sports. >> >> Well, we've had we've had weekend meetings where a lot of people have showed up. >> Yeah. >> You mean the town meeting? >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Nobody shows up here. This is a crowd. >> Um

>> Steve again. >> Steve again? >> Uh Steve Sterns, Thomas O'Rourke. So, just to follow up on some of what Terry was saying in the discussion with the board. Um at this point, I think I know the

answer, but I'd like to have it confirmed. At this point, since the article is before you, I don't know if the warrant's closed yet. Um can that change be made by the board um prior to it going to

town meeting, or do we have to change it on the town floor if people are so inclined, or in the spring? I don't know if anybody can answer that. >> Victor. >> Uh I can take a stab at it. I I I'm sure

it can be changed for this town meeting. The exact process for that I'm not entirely sure. It may have to be a motion on the floor. >> That's what I would think. It's not already printed and

everything. >> Yeah, so I I think the um pretty sure the warrant's closed. Um so, you can't change the article that's in the warrant. >> Yeah, you would have to do that >> gets presented at town

meeting and to change it any further, there has to be a motion on the floor, which the planning board would essentially make as part of your recommendation. You would recommend to I mean, assuming you

recommend positively, you'd recommend to adopt this article with, you know, the requested change. >> to make an amendment. That's all. >> Okay. >> That's to answer your question, Steve. It sounds like

it has to be done on the floor. >> I'll confirm that, though. >> Well, I think I think we can have something ready for it. >> I think that is the case, but I just wanted to see if there was any

leeway. I didn't know if the warrant was closed yet, but thank you. I appreciate you entertaining Terry's thought cuz I I do agree that a lot is being put on the building inspector, and I think people

have faith in your board to be able to come and speak and at least have their say before a decision is made. >> Yeah. That's okay. Terry? >> to wait 2 years? >> No. >> If if you change it >> No, if it

fails, we have to wait 2 years. This is why we're trying to get it correct now before we go. Like that other thing that we did, that that parking thing. We don't want that to happen again. >> >> Um

anything else on solar? And we'll we'll work on what we discussed. Okay. All right. I'm going to check back on that. >> All right, the next article is article five, the flood plain district bylaw uh

amendment. So, this is a planning board sponsored article um to essentially amend the flood plain district bylaw section of the town zoning bylaw by deleting it in its entirety and replacing it with a

new section. It keeps most of the existing language. It just makes some changes uh, to make sure that the current flood plain district bylaw uh, is uh, continues to uh, comply with state and federal

requirements for flood plain district overlay um, overlays. So, it adds some definitions. Uh, it updates the district descript- description to refer to the most recent uh, flood insurance maps. Uh, it

adds language designating the town's official flood plain administrator to be the building uh, inspector. Um, and then it adds new language with respect to prohibited activities in the regulatory

floodway. Uh, and then some other minor changes. Um, just from an overview, the town to maintain a participant in the national flood insurance program, we have to have a flood plain district in our

bylaw that we continually maintain so that it complies with state and federal requirements. And we also have to have a uh, flood plain zoning district on our zoning map that is also maintained uh, to

align with the flood federal flood insurance maps. Um, the benefit to the town of being a member or participant of the national flood insurance program is that anyone who lives in one of these flood

flood- flooding areas can get um, national flood insurance or federal flood insurance, which is a lot cheaper than private flood insurance. Um, and then the town is also eligible for disaster funding

in case um, we do experience uh, extreme flooding. So there's a lot of benefits for this town. The only requirement is that we maintain our flood plain district and our flood plain zoning map sort of

uh delineation. Um FEMA is releasing new maps for the Blackstone River or officially publishing them in early 2027. So we will also be needing to update the map in the spring. But this is kind of the

first step to just make sure our regulations are up to date. >> So we'll be seeing those those FEMA maps in 2027? >> Yes. >> Okay. >> Do I know what they're going to show? I I have looked at them very

briefly. They're kind of complicated. I can't really just describe them. It just the FEMA flood maps show different flooding risk zones from a certain distance from the river. So it says if you're

this in this area, you have a much higher risk and etc. etc. So they have used changing data or new data to essentially update what those zones are. In some areas, the zones have gotten smaller and

some areas they've gotten bigger. So it depends enormously depending on where you are compared to the Blackstone. >> Yeah, they base it on levels like topo heights and all that stuff. I think you're

you're up the road a few stops. So I think you would be in a low risk, in my opinion. I'm not one of those guys, so >> I I didn't I did create a web page on the planning department website where

there's a whole lot of information on the flood plain district and and the national flood insurance program. And one of the links on that page is actually a mapping tool that FEMA provides where you

can actually compare You can look up your address and you can compare uh where it stands on the current maps versus the new maps and I mean it's really cool tool. So, if you're curious, you can look

at that. >> Yeah, thank you. >> You, Steve? >> Oh, I'm sorry, Mel. Do you have anything? >> I'm good. >> Okay. Uh Steve? >> Steve Sterns, Thomas Hill Road. So, I actually looked at this when the board

brought it up some time ago um when Rich was on the board. And I shared some information with Victor. Uh the flood plain districts, it is as Victor said a little confusing. There's like four different

zones. Um however, I looked at every property in Millbury. Um and the number of properties that are affected has increased and I believe don't quote me on this, but I think the properties was 675

properties that are within the flood zone. Doesn't mean they're going to get flooded. It doesn't mean we're going to have a storm event of that magnitude, but the number did go up. So, I think this is

an important thing to update at town meeting and also keep current on. >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> You know, the other thing that goes along with that, flood insurance. >> >> Okay. So, if there's a lot of

properties that are going to be affected, properties that maybe never had flood insurance. And they've expanded the flood map. They're going to have to get flood insurance. >> That's true. I I just

want to say this now so it's on the record. Um the the people requiring that that if the flood flood zone increases in size and a new property is then added to the flood zone, they're going to be

required to get flood insurance, but not by us and not by the federal government. It's by their lender. And the lender is not going to look at the town zoning map. It's going to look at FEMA's

published flood maps and say, "You're in a flood zone now. We require you to get flood insurance." If the town doesn't adopt the new flood maps in our zoning on our zoning map, we're no longer a

participant in the National Flood Insurance Program and that homeowner won't be able to get an NFIP flood insurance. They'll have to go to a private flood insurance provider and it'll cost them a lot

more money. So, we as the town officials need to make sure we're adopting these maps so that we give these residents the option to get an NFIP flood insurance. >> And doesn't that affect FEMA, also?

>> Sorry? >> If we If we don't update, do we lose FEMA? >> Yeah, no. If we're not part of the NFIP, not only do the private property owners get lose access to NFIP flood insurance, but we as a town

also lose access to disaster relief funding if there is flooding. >> Yeah. >> I mean, it's a disastrous outcome and we need to make sure we're compliant with the National Flood Insurance Program. >>

So, we got to get this thing in play and get a look at that map. >> Yeah. >> Yeah, somebody's going to pay. There's no doubt about it. But, that's the way they like things. Okay. Um anybody else have

any comments on the flood plain? Okay. What do we got next? >> Number six. >> Number six. >> Yep. >> Article six, off-site parking. Um so, this is another attempt at an old classic. Um it updates our

current section of the bylaw on off-site parking. So, the current section allows a use to locate its required parking on another separate property within 500 ft with no additional requirements or

restrictions. So, this bylaw would change that so that a use could locate its required parking on a nearby property, but only if that property is within 250 ft. Um and only if the property is commonly

owned with the use that it's meant to serve. Um so, it it it restricts uh the ability to locate parking off-site essentially. By by quite quite a fair bit. I do want to note since this came up at the

last town meeting that this would not affect pro uh businesses or uses that already locate their parking off-site. It would only prevent that from happening in the future. >> Anything new? >> Correct.

>> So, everything else is grandfathered. >> Grandfathered in. >> Yeah, absolutely. >> You know, >> Yeah, you learned that word, did you? >> It should It should be. >> Did you learn that word,

grandfathered in? Oh, good. >> It It's worth noting though that if you have a restaurant in a building right now and then that restaurant leaves and instead you get a massage parlor or something,

that's a new use. That massage parlor would not be able to benefit from the restaurant's grandfathering, even if there's not a new building, but the uses are changing, the parking requirements are

changing, and the grandfathering is lost. >> Got you. >> Okay, so the Sorry. >> Go ahead. Go ahead. >> The the complaint on on one of these was a gentleman came up and he has a lot of rentals, I'm

assuming in this in the center of town. >> Mhm. >> And there's there's no parking for them. >> Mhm. >> So if if he owns these buildings, nothing's going to change. The new owner, it would change. >>

No, the ownership doesn't matter. >> It's the use of the property. >> uses. >> Okay. >> I I have to experience this personally. If I owned a building that had no parking >> Yeah. >> and I sell the

building to that person to a individual, say you. You're grandfathered for an additional 5 years. And then you got to fix it. >> Then I got to go I got to have parking. >> That's right. >> After 5

years. >> After 5 years. >> So it's not immediate. But >> But the person who owns it and stays there for the next 20 years got >> can have it forever. >> Forever. Okay. >> He's grandfathered in, but

the new owner gets to be grandfathered for 5 years. >> Got you. >> Okay. >> But we're saying it gets more complicated, too. I mean, if >> Always gets complicated. >> If you're saying if you're saying

a use currently has no parking at all >> Yeah. >> And they use >> They use the town >> Even if a new use comes in, that that's still stays grandfathered. >> Yep. >> Okay. >> So it's >> Sorry. >> They

have to allow them some time to uh >> I think you may have answered my question. Marlene Mallette, 17 Canal Street. So my question was if somebody has an apartment in town and they don't have parking

space >> on site or off site. >> I know like no parking. >> Yeah, they're on street or whatever. >> Yeah. >> So my question is if their land doesn't permit for them to add parking, then what are they

to do? What are the residents of that apartment supposed to do? >> Park on the street. >> Well, if it's used for the same use and there's no parking, it's not going to change. Obviously, you you don't

have any parking that it's never had any parking. >> No, under zoning, it sounds like it's a residential unit that's never had parking and nothing's changing and it's just the way it is. That's that's

it's grandfathered in that sense. >> That's grandfathered forever, it'll stay like that. The new owner, if somebody buys it, they got 5 years to correct the problem. >> How can they correct the

problem when there's no way to correct it? >> Well, if it's a new owner, it's easy. It's not my problem. >> >> And if I was to buy it, I'd look at that. That's There's probably a lot more to it than

that. >> There's a lot more to it. I mean, we could spend hours on this thing. >> I don't think we have to. I think we're going to be okay with this proposal. >> Yeah, this >> This isn't going to

affect the people in the center of town that have no parking. I think they're all going to be good. Which is a concern of mine. Cuz a lot of people do park on the street or wherever. >> Right. >> Or

some people use the public lot. >> I would imagine. >> A lot of people do. >> Okay. Melody, do you have any questions on this? >> that was to clarify the grandfathered in. That was pretty much the

thing. >> Okay. I've been trying to do that for 3 years. >> Okay, does anybody out there have any questions? Go ahead. >> Um right again, Caitlin Leahy Barb, 20 Maple Lane. Um Uh so, I did have some

questions at the spring meeting. and I still have some questions on this version of it, and I understand that there's the grandfathering component, but I I guess I have more questions on the the lot

being the lot purchased for the parking if it has to get that far, and that being for the sole use of that property. Um my my thoughts on that being if I were a business, I can't fit parking on site

for some reason, I now need to expend more money to buy additional parking spaces that I need to put in lighting, security, make sure it's plowed, maybe within a short distance. Um but then it would

have to retain its use for my business that say I'm a cafe that's open in the morning, and then I want to be able to do something with it in the afternoon, but now it just becomes a risk because it's

just open and underutilized, and I'm not going to watch it the whole time. So, my concern was is now with the deeded component or like that direct tie-in? Like would there be the ability for someone

who owns those lots to get other business use out of it, so it's not just another parking lot? And then the the follow-up um Um the follow-up to that being um looking at where the town might be able

to add new buildings and new businesses, and then those groups would have to make sure that they have sufficient dedicated parking. Um And again, not related to finance role, but just personal

thought, would that be a lot more space in town dedicated to parking only instead of lots that could then have buildings or structures on it and provide a different value to the town itself. So,

question coming back to just the tied into that business purpose versus lots that could have multiple uses. >> Okay. When you say multiple uses, are you mean you mean like you want to you want to

lease out a parking spot to somebody down the street or whatever? >> Yeah. >> It's your property. You can do whatever you want with it as far as I'm concerned, but I don't know if there's any law

against that. >> Well, there is. If if you if you if I'm going to build a building and I don't have any parking for that building, and I got to have within 250 ft another piece of property I own. >>

Yeah. >> That property is dedicated to that building. So, you can't do another use on that property. >> Well, if there's more than enough room, you can do whatever you want with it. You can do

whatever you want if it's big enough. >> It don't work that way. If you're going to dedicate that property to a building for parking, it has to remain that way. You can't I can't say, "Okay, Bruce,

I'm going to lease you two two parking spots." Can't do that. It's not right. >> I I can't even fathom that thought. >> Well, if it's my property and I have more than ample parking room in there, I

should be able to lease out lease out a parking spot. >> Well, Bruce, you could only under this new bylaw, you would only be able to do that if you own both properties. >> Yeah. >> Yeah, that's what I

mean. >> So, but to to your comments, um this does not require that the property that has the parking be used only for parking. So, you could you could absolutely I mean, the idea is that you have a

property owner that owns two separate properties. On one of the properties, you have a use that can't locate the parking on that property. That property owner can say, "I have extra parking on this

other site and this use is going to use the parking on the other site." Um that would be allowed under this bylaw as long as it's within 250 ft and they have to file a deed a not deed restriction, but

like a notice with their deed in the registry of deeds that the park properties are linked. Um, I don't know if that >> No. >> Can I clarify? >> go ahead. >> So, it sounds like Bruce's situation where

I I own the parking lot, I could lease it to other people for random assorted uses, but I couldn't potentially lease it to the building next to me that doesn't have parking. We can't share that lot

for our businesses, could we? >> Well, it sounds like you you don't own both properties, so that would not be allowed under this bylaw. You have to own >> owns the property that she's working in and

she owns the lot. She she should be able She can't lease out to the neighbor? >> That's a whole different subject you're talking about. >> Yeah, that's what she's saying. >> Yes, she can. >> That has

nothing to do with this bylaw. >> Okay. Okay. I >> As long as the property where the use is being conducted and the property where the parking is being located are owned by the same person, under this

bylaw you would be allowed to provide the parking to that use. >> How can you say that? >> Cuz that's what it's that's what >> Uh, I don't believe that. But, I want to tell you why. I'm going to tell

you why. >> Yeah. >> If you're going to build an eight-unit apartment building our bylaws require x amount of parking spaces for x amount of bedrooms. So, if you build an eight It's quite simple. >>

That's if you're building. What if you bought something? It's already there. >> That's the grandfather thing. We're talking >> So, if you're building we have parking in the barrels. >> Yeah, if you're

building we have parking already law. We already have laws for that. >> Right. They have to have the parking. >> you build >> a building and you have parking within 250 ft from your building >> Yeah.

>> that's designate designated to that building >> Yeah. >> those required parking spots are used. >> What if not all of them are used? Then I can do what I want. >> two and you're using one, you

can't rent the other one. Because it requires two. >> That's not what I mean. What if the parking lot is bigger than what's required? >> Well, that's fine as long as you have your required amount of

parking spots. >> This thing is out of control. >> Huh? >> This conversation is out of control. >> Yes, it is. Next. >> Thank you. >> >> Are you done? >> Um >> >> I apologize. >> Oh, it ain't next. >>

lost. Um I um >> Well, were we able to answer your first question? >> Um I I guess I I know there's a lot of hypotheticals that could occur with that. Uh I just I'm wondering just about the cost of

business for businesses to keep buying lots. Um I know parking is essential for those businesses, but it's additional cost if you're a small business to then buy additional parking, which may be

oversized and develop that. If um there's not some other uh financially less burdened way. >> Now you got me confused. >> Just keep in mind any business or any residence or anything has to have the

required parking if you're building a new spot. >> Mhm. >> If it doesn't, it's going to fail. >> In in the vast vast majority of cases >> Mhm. >> any new business coming into an existing business

space um would be grandfathered in to whatever parking scenario existed with the previous use. Um if they're not, then they need to get they probably wouldn't need more than maybe one additional

space, which could either be gotten on the property or on another property within 200 ft 50 ft that's also owned by the owner of the property that that business is located on. That's I don't >> Sounds

like a lot of air to air force and there goes. >> Yeah, hypothetical stuff is out of control. Anything else? >> thing to death, but >> Um I I guess just one other question with the 500 ft to 250 ft um

just is that reasonable for a business who would look to have to purchase property adjacent to it in that scenario? Um 250 seems uh not terrible of a distance, I guess. Like I guess curious why the

the shortening of the distance there. >> Uh we've been trying to shorten that up for a long time, but the average person 500 ft is okay, but to the person that can't walk that far >> Mhm. >> it's not

okay. >> It would >> It's too far. >> Yeah. Are there I guess a follow up are there different provisions then for the accessibility accessible parking on on site rather than uh within that distance?

>> Um >> No, the answer is no. >> No. >> Okay. Well Thank you. >> Okay. Thank you. Steve. So I I think the point that maybe we missed and I think you all touched on it is for any new thing that comes

before the planning board, there's required parking. That has to be met. This idea that the downtown is suddenly going to spring up new buildings, and that's the area really that we're talking about,

is probably next to impossible unless there was something catastrophic that happened. I don't I don't see a lot of new buildings springing up in town, in the center of town, because most of the lots

are already populated. I think all of them are, except for one uh lot that's very small. Uh so, I don't see this as an issue. I think it's something that we need to do. Um I think we can talk about

hypotheticals forever, but the reality is I don't I see this as a good thing, and I don't see it really happening um as far as new buildings popping up and having parking offsite, or we're even having

the availability for parking offsite, because there really no lots in the downtown that is owned for business. >> And as you all know, we're trying to keep the parking off the streets. You know that,

so Okay. >> I'm sorry. >> Okay. Any Anything else about parking? All right. Moving on. >> All right. Article 7 is a zoning map change. Um it's the West Millbury split zoning fix. Uh there's not too

much to say here. This uh is a planning board sponsored article that proposes to rezone eight properties. Um or sorry, 14 prop- properties, six of them in the vicinity of Brahminville Village and

eight located on Brenda Drive and Hemlock Drive to essentially resolve split zoning issues where the boundary between two zoning districts cut through the properties. That's generally not an ideal

arrangement. It causes some some difficulties for the property owners. It causes some confusing confusion under zoning. Um so this fixes those issues by rezoning all of those properties into the zone

where the majority of the property is located. >> Yes. I'm in full agreement with this one. Simple. Simple. Yeah. >> Yeah. Simple. >> Definitely. >> Yeah. Anybody out there wish to speak on this?

Eric? >> Hey, Eric Bull, 23 Hemlock Drive. Um I'm on an adjacent property. And I I just have a question. I think it's um probably somewhat unrelated um to to the specific article, but was the uh

nonconformities between the town and the adjacent properties over the municipal line into Sutton also looked at? Um and would there be any potential nonconformities along those borders? You know, for

example, several of those properties um are are the frontage is Millbury, but the majority of the property including mine and my neighbors are inside. I I don't think there would be, but I just wanted

to bring that up. >> I don't think that involves this at all. This This is just That's just town line stuff, right? >> Right. >> I would say. >> [clears throat and cough] >> Um to answer their

question, we did not look at that. Uh and I don't think there's any of the properties that we're rezoning that are on the town boundary. I'm just double-checking that right now. Oh, 25 Hemlock Drive

is I take that back. We're re- We're rezoning a small sliver of 25 Hemlock Drive um from the S1 to the S2. Um but we didn't We didn't look at I can't think of any impacts that that would have um with

relation to what would be happening in Sutton. Um it has very little impact on our zoning district, anyway, so. >> Well, we can't change this zoning, but >> No, we can't. >> Here's the deal. I believe

and maybe Mr. Bull knows. Do you pay taxes in Millbury and Sutton? >> We do, yes. >> Wow. Yeah, there's some There's a lot of those up there. >> You know, I know there is. And how that gets I remember

we dealt with one a little while ago was Oxford, I believe, wasn't it? Oxford and Millbury. >> Mhm. >> And we rezoned it. But they went to both boards to get it rezoned. You can do it. You got to go

to the Millbury board, planning board, to re- get it rezoned, and then you got to go to the Sutton planning board to get it rezoned. So, you got to go to two boards, but it can be done. That was what

we did with the Oxford deal. If you recall correctly. >> had to go to both boards to get the zoning >> They went to the Oxford board, but they didn't change the town line. It did not change the >> The

town line stays, but the zoning got changed, and they only ended up pay- paying taxes in one town, if I think correctly. I believe they still >> On the A&R for what we were doing. Yeah, that that lot

was in one town. >> Right. >> That's why they made the change. They >> Right. >> They went around the town line. >> Right. >> If I remember right. >> Yeah, that's the one I'm thinking of, too. >>

Yeah. >> So, that can be fixed. >> think I don't think Eric that uh that we can do anything on the Sutton side, anyway. >> I think I appreciate it not to to to take from. I just wanted to make sure

that on any of those changes wouldn't create a non-conformity, but as you mentioned, it's it's such a minor change. Um and and looking at the map now of that change, I I can see how how, you know, >>

Yeah. >> how the small that would be. Thank you. >> You're welcome. >> Um Steve. >> Oh, Steve. >> Uh thank you. Um if I can ask Eric a question, do you know what your zoning is in Sutton? Is it

similar um zoning to what Millbury is? >> I do not. >> Okay. Uh we did when we created this, um we looked at the percentage of the lots to get rid of the split zoning, and one of the main thrusts

behind this was in certain conditions, if you have split zoning, which some of these, like the ones you're talking about in your area, are very small slivers. They're very small percentages. Some of

them were less than 5%. It was came about most likely because of we had paper zoning, and now we've gone computerized, and that's gotten better and better. Uh that's how I was able to analyze all this

and get the percentages. Uh it was to prevent people from unnecessarily having to go before the zoning board of appeals because they're on a split lot, which can be expensive in some cases for getting

a survey and other things which we're trying to eliminate so that residents don't have those extra expenses on them. So that's that's part of this. This is a lead on to uh what happened on West Main

Street at the last meeting. Some of those properties were moved from S1 to S2 to make them not have split properties and make that side of the street compatible with the neighbors. >> Okay. Next. Uh

anything else on the zoning for West Millbury? Okay. Okay, Article 8. >> Um all right, Article 8 is another planning board sponsored article. It's also aimed at uh fixing some split zoning, uh but

this time in the area of Maple Street near the uh downtown. Um So yeah, again just fixing split zoning, same reasons as the other one. The only exception here is the property at 56 Canal Street. Um

that one is not split zoned, um but it's currently located in a residential district even though it is entirely a commercial property, um and it's adjacent to some of the properties that are split

zoned that we were fixing. Um so this property was uh kind of grouped in to this rezoning to put it into a district that's more appropriate to its current use. >> And just so everybody's aware this

spot he's talking about is Riverside uh store, right? >> I think so. I'd have to double-check. >> Yeah, Bruce, it's uh the Riverside and I'm thinking also in I think the Riverside and the other

property there that's the pizza place. >> Yeah. >> Uh they seem to keep changing hands. I think they're one property. >> Yes, they are. That is That is one piece of property. You are correct. >> Yeah,

so it encompasses both of them. >> And again, the >> And this is all uh abutting uh the river. >> Right. >> On Maple Street. >> Right. Yeah, so the the Blackstone River has two parcels in that area.

So, we um use the residence side as the back side of the business district and the residents go right up to the south side of the Blackstone. >> Mhm. >> It was a logical place where that properties

end to uh end that zone. >> Yeah, that cleans it right up. Uh any questions on the Maple Street zoning? >> I do have a question. >> Sure. >> Can you explain to me what >> Use the microphone. >> Sorry.

Can you explain to me what they're asking to do for Maple Street because we're going to be facing a situation on Wednesday where they want to take a business and and a house and split that zoning so

that the house can be residential, I believe. Um so I'm trying to understand what's supposed to be happening on Maple Street. >> I uh Can you pull the map up by any chance? >> Yeah. >> I'll have you

I'll show you on the map. >> Yeah, there it is. Okay. So, you see on Maple Street where B1 has the cross-outs on it? That section that is crossed out meets the river. >> Okay. >> So, all those

backyards are business one, which there can't be any businesses there because it's somebody's backyard. So, we're just changing that section from business one to residential one. >> Okay. >> And up on

up on the top up there, those squiggly lines, that's where Riverside and the pizza house is. >> Okay. >> And that's currently residential one. We're changing that to business one, and that abuts the

river also. >> Okay. >> I think it crosses the river on that side, right? >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> That >> Yeah, it crosses to the south side of the lights home. >> That's That's what we're

doing. We're just making the lines where they should be. Okay? All right. Any other questions on um the Maple Street split? Okay. >> >> Ah, number nine. Last but not least. >> They did a song like

that, number nine. >> Number nine. >> Number nine. >> Okay. Uh Victor? >> Yeah, article nine is a citizen petition um proposing to add uh personal services and indoor recreation facilities as an

allowed use in industrial one uh zoning districts. Or industrial two zoning districts, sorry. Um I just wonder if the citizen who proposed this is online and wants to speak. I'm not sure if they are.

>> Is there anybody online for petition uh Article 9? >> They probably don't know where Article 9 is. Better read it. >> >> Yeah, I I don't think they are. Um well, that's the proposal. I don't know

that I have that much to say. >> I got a some sort of a letter saying one of them wasn't going to be here. Somebody wasn't going to be here. >> Yeah, he I believe he >> Was that him? >> No, that's a

public comment on >> was a public comment. >> think it's a petitioner. >> All right. Um well, so this this petition is aimed toward allowing Are you saying that Wait a minute. We we don't currently

don't allow like salons and stuff like that? >> Yeah, so the industrial two zoning district currently does not allow things doesn't allow personal services and it doesn't allow indoor recreational

facilities. So, those are two separate uses, use categories. Personal services are things like um yeah, nail salons, um tattoo artists, uh anything where you go in and you get a service done to you or

for you. Um and then indoor recreation facilities are kind of what you would imagine gyms or um I guess hockey rinks are an extreme version of that. Um but I mean generally you're thinking of gyms. So

the industrial two zoning district doesn't currently allow that in town. As an allowed use. >> Industrial one allows it. >> No, industrial one allows personal services. It does not allow the indoor

recreation facilities. >> we not have any that allow the indoor recreation? >> Doesn't sound like it. >> No. >> Business zoning district allows it. >> Why are we changing it? >> Um because a citizen

petitioned for that change. >> I didn't see things. Citizens petition. >> Yeah, I know. But to what purpose? Usually they give you a little explanation of why. >> Well, >> that should be that is in

your packet. >> Is it? >> The proposed amendment would provide a clear and appropriate zoning classification for business >> What is this Is this us? >> No. >> Yeah. >> Yeah, Bruce, you're reading the

right thing. That's their explanation. >> For business that provide fitness, wellness, recreation, and similar services to the community. These facilities can make productive use of existing

commercial industrial properties while bringing economic activity and community service to the town. >> I did read it. I forgot it. Well, um >> I Yes. >> I mean, I'm not against it. I don't see why

it's not allowed. Um I mean, if we have an industrial area that's got uh trucks running around and they're not going to want to be in that area anyway. going to want to be away from that stuff.

Wouldn't you think? >> No. I wouldn't think that. >> So, you're going to put a gym next to a place that has trucks running all over it? >> If I had it in my hat, probably. >> would. >> Yeah. You know

I'm a radical. Probably would. >> How about you, Mel? What How do you feel about this? >> I don't know. >> When I first saw it, I thought it was a great idea until I saw the comments that were against

it. And safety is when you're talking about an indoor recreation place, especially if families are going there. You're talking kids that are running out the door once they're all done whatever the

recreation thing is. So, if it's in an area where there are those big trucks, it's probably not a good idea. But, wouldn't that require um site regulations anyway and that would not be a place where

we would allow it? >> I I think it's fair to say that any indoor recreation facility um I I should say any new indoor recreation facility. So, new building um of any size that would draw a lot of

traffic would be large enough to trigger site plan review. So, it would come to the planning board. >> What about an exis- an existing building? Somebody buys a building and they want to turn it into,

I don't know. >> Yeah, if someone's just putting a new use in a building and not changing the size of the building in any way, that I don't that doesn't come to the >> So, if they change the sign to

an exercise place, they got to come before the planning board? >> They can't, I'm asking. >> No, they don't. No, no. I'm talking about like an actual building addition. >> I'm talking about an

existing building that they put a they plan a sign on it. >> Yeah, pretty sure that does not come to the planning board. >> Okay. >> Let me just double check. >> All right. So, the next thing is um

her question was pretty valid the the zones that we're talking about. Where are they? Is it all 146? >> I can show it on the map. Um There's I think mainly two areas. Hold on. Okay. Here it is. All

right. So, it's the deep or the darker blue areas. So, there's one section over here that's kind of on 146 but goes far deeper into the property. And then there is a stretch of I-2 up here around

Latty Farm Road. That's it. >> Okay. >> Oh, sorry. Up here as well. >> East Milbury, yeah. I thought there was another one up there. Okay. Does that answer your question? >> Well, my other question is

what's in those areas right now? Like what businesses? >> The one he's got his mouse on is I don't know. Is that developed at all? >> I don't really know. >> Where's your mouse? >> It is It has some

industrial uses, Bruce. It's um in that area that is mostly >> That's Is that up behind Wyman-Gordon? >> It's behind Wyman-Gordon. It's where the railroad tracks are for the MBTA. >> Okay. >> And uh

the little point up at the top is Rock Point uh condominiums in Worcester. >> Okay. Yeah. All right, I'm familiar. Thanks, Dave. And the one uh in the middle there, um that's where the car dealer is

and uh the power company where they do the training off of Route 20? Right inside of there. And then the other one is at the top of the hill on 146 uh where the restaurant is, right? >> It's next to

um Lenny's Liquor and then further in Sutton is the um Brickstones Kitchen, which I believe are right next door to it. >> Okay, so it's going up the hill, right? >> Yeah, it's it's kind of almost, I

would say, close to the peak of the hill. >> Okay. All right, and uh let's see. Some of that is None of that is industrial. The industrial part is in >> So the dark blue is the industrial. >> No, I

mean where the where the um uh where the industrial park is up behind the brick houses in Sutton. >> Yes, I believe so. >> And the rest of that land is open. Kind of. There's a house or two there and

there's a a little mini mall. >> Yeah, and that's the area that has been um designated for the MBTA. Uh community uh community act that we did. >> Okay. Got it. >> So, I don't see a problem with it. I

under understand people's concerns about children, but a couple of my first jobs was at Discovery Zone in Shrewsbury and at Chuck E. Cheese. Those are very busy lots to begin with. And um because

there were many different businesses in there, and we had no problems with either one that I can even recall of of accidents happening from kids running out. >> Yeah. Um I know Steve has some

comments. Uh does anybody else have anything they'd like to say in regards to this? Okay, Steve, you got the con. >> All right. So, I don't know if the board saw the comments that I sent in. I know

they were sent in around 5:00, so I don't know if you had the chance to be given them or look at them. Um I know this is a business that wants to grow in Millbrae, and I um absolutely support that.

However, industrial vi- what they're asking for specifically is to just add the uses personal services and indoor recreational facilities. However, what they didn't take into account was that

industrial uh parking requirements is one parking space for 1,000 to 1,500 sq ft for industrial, but for a gym and this type of use, it's one parking space for every 100 to 150 sq ft of building

space. So, that's 10 ti- essentially, if you just do this, you're requiring 10 times less parking. All right. That's that's a big difference. Um the other thing is um these industrial zones were set

up for specific uses that all are in harmony with each other. This is a completely different use, and from what the petitioner wrote, well, they're trying to make it sound like it's broad for

everybody. It seems like spot zoning because it's for their business to grow into industrial the industrial district. But the other big factor in this is it's on 146, a super busy highway, uh

especially at times when people would be going to work out after work, the traffic on 146 is astronomical. There's something that we've discussed before on the other side of 146 for the rezoning we

did there to residential is that it requires a mass. permit permit for highways, uh which can be very costly. You have to do a traffic study. Uh you may have to modify 146 if they allow it, if there's

enough space for deceleration and acceleration lanes, which there's a requirement, if I remember correctly, of it can't be within 400 ft of another driveway. Um so, that's a big factor that they even

if they get this rezoning, they may not be able to do any of this expansion because they can't get onto 146 cuz it won't be permitted. So, I think we need to I think more research needs to be done on

this to ensure the public safety, which I know Terry talks about all the time of being within your purview and your charge is to make sure that things are safe. Um and I just think more research

should have been done into this. So, I would ask the board to make a negative recommendation on this. And obviously, the town meeting will um make the decision on this, but I'm not sure even if they

get it that they're going to be able to expand their business as they intend because of the mass. highway um permit that's required, which can be very lengthy in time to get. So, those those are the

main comments that I have on this is that there were other things that should have been considered in this rather than just adding a couple words to 27.12. I don't know if the board has any questions

for me or whether that was clear enough. >> Uh I only have a comment for you. Um Uh I don't think you should involve the parking because um I'm assuming I'm under the assumption that they're going to

buy a piece of property and build something. So, they're going to have ample parking. Um not under the assumption that they're going to occupy a building. If they're going to occupy a building, then I

agree with you 100%. Uh so, that like maybe like you said, there's not enough info um it for the warrant. >> If they have to occupy a building, we would assess their parking requirements, and if they

needed to add parking, they'd be required to add parking. >> Okay. >> So, the question is though >> Mhm. >> the it brings me back to like if they Are you familiar with that area up there? >> No. >>

All right. So, on your way up the hill, there's a a small uh a mini plaza. I think it's got five stores in it. Does that sound about right? >> Yep. >> Now, if he was to buy that plaza, it's got a

pretty big parking lot in it. >> Mhm. >> And he wanted it to turn it into something. >> Mhm. >> Um would he have to pull a permit? >> Yes. >> To turn it into whatever. >> Yes, but would he have to

come to the planning board? Probably not unless he's adding to the existing building. >> Okay. >> Or significantly expanding the parking area. >> Well, that's that wouldn't be a problem in that spot

that I'm talking about. The parking would be sufficient. Um I'm just >> any kind of work inside or outside of a building has to go to the building department. >> Right. >> So, the building department

would assess, do you have the parking required under the zoning bylaw for the proposed use? >> All right. So, it's my understanding, Bruce, that if the volume changes, so the traffic volume changes in

or out of the property, they would still have to go to MassDOT for the highway permit because the volume has changed. >> Yeah, I I understand that. They need a pull-off lane and all that stuff. Um and

a slow-down lane, like you said, but that's not our That's not in our purview. That has nothing to do with us. Zoning a spot. The state owns that >> owns it. Yeah. >> So, if the guy does it and goes

for it and fails, well I guess they'd have to sell it to someone else. >> Um What do you got? Anything? >> I I'm not against it because I like the idea. Well, more I read it You like the idea, too,

Steve, but Um the more I thought about it, the less I liked it. Have you ever been down Route 20 where they put that gym right on the corner? >> Oh, yeah. >> Across from the What's that? >> If you

come from the pharmacist down at that intersection, you're >> Yeah. You're looking right at it. >> Yeah. >> What a mess. >> Yeah. Well >> That's all I'm going to say. What a mess. >> You say that

about everything. >> >> Well, I'm usually right. You find out later. >> That's cuz I'm ahead of everything. Yeah. Uh So, >> that's my feeling. >> I'm really on the line on this. Um I don't think of

myself. >> I don't think we have enough information for it the way it is. >> Yeah. I I don't know how to how to how which way to go. I'm going to I'm going to read I didn't get I only got a chance to

scan Steve's comments. And uh I'm going to have to read his proposal again. But uh it's on our docket to vote on for our next meeting as a as a board. >> Yeah. >> So that's when we'll uh >> Melody,

can you expand on what additional information you'd be looking for? >> I'm not sure. More I don't want to say yes or sponsor something that in the long run when they're all done with it is a major

safety issue. And it's too vague right now of where and what. >> Why? >> You should You should not be considering this rezoning based on what one individual may or may not do with that change. >> You

have to be impartial. >> You're thinking about this more holistically. Should industrial districts in town, specifically industrial two, allow these categories of uses or should they remain as they

are now, which is really pretty much purely industrial and manufacturing? >> And the sad part to me is the the area that I look at every time I come out of uh what is that street? >> Herrick Road. >>

Herrick's Lane. >> Yeah. >> And I look across and what a waste of property. Nobody uses it. Maybe that's why. I don't know. >> That would be just >> just a damn waste. >> Maybe they don't want to use

it. People like space sometimes. But anyway, here's another thing and I don't know, give this food for thought. Wouldn't that be considered spot zoning? >> No, it's it's certainly not spot zoning. Um

Yes. >> Yes, for one and two, didn't he? >> Well, yes, the petitioner is asking for this because it would allow them to do use at a particular site. But they're not specifically targeting that one

property and only changing the zoning for that one property. And even if they were it would have to be a change that doesn't align with town planning documents. There's there's a few steps that need

to be met for something to be spot zoning. This change would affect the town as a whole. So it's a zoning bylaw change, not a specific map change. And I think there are some action items from the

town's master plan that sort of align with this zoning change. So it could certainly be argued that the change they're proposing aligns with town planning documents. >> So we're going to change

everything. We're going to change all the zoning. >> You're just changing the zoning from industrial to district. >> Right. We're going to change all the zoning for industrial two districts all over

the town. >> Mhm. >> For one petitioner. >> No, the petitioner is asking to change but it affects everyone in town or anyone who owns an industrial two district. >> Maybe >> changing it just for them.

>> Yeah. >> I know we got to be biased. >> Obviously something that he wants. >> Right. >> But >> That that's >> That's not what it's about. He's he's doing the whole the whole district. So >> Oh. I

don't want to vote on it anyway, but I >> Okay. All right, go ahead. >> Miley Malott, 17 Canal Street. So I'm kind of like the both of you. I'm wavering the more of that I listen to this. I would like

to see areas that they can bring things for the citizens to do in town, which would provide people to come to us and say, "Oh, I'd like to put such and such in the spot." But at the same time, I'm

thinking about how will this affect um business and jobs for that sector in the town if we change it. >> Uh I don't I don't It would only improve business. It would generate more if it was there. >>

Okay. >> Um It wouldn't hurt the industrial because we're not changing anything on them. We're just adding this this one thing for the >> the use of it in the office area. >> recreation or whatever

the case may be. >> Yeah. >> >> I I think what >> That's why I like it. >> I think what she's getting at doesn't produce anything. >> And you're saying that he first the same that would >> It would It

would create jobs. >> It would produce jobs. >> muscles >> Whatever. >> jobs >> I I That's why I like the industrial. We need tax revenue. Let's face it. And a gym ain't going to give us tax revenue.

>> Do you see any revenue at all up there? >> I don't see any revenue up there. >> Like if you have an empty possibly >> I see zero. >> Frank. >> Maybe after I die, I don't know. >> If you have an old

unused industrial building and the property owner is having a hard time finding an industrial use to go into that building, offering the property owner a larger a option of uses that can go into that

building generally is going to be better for your tax base because you're making it more likely that those buildings get filled with productive uses. >> That's right. >> They generate >> very few

jobs. >> They generate money, though. >> Very few jobs. >> They bring in revenue. >> >> If you join a gym, you got to pay. >> Yeah. >> Millbury doesn't get that money. >> It's revenue, isn't it? >>

Not to Millbury. >> We tax the gym, of course. >> Yeah, we tax the gym. >> Okay. >> it was an industrial building and it was producing manufacturing, it would be a higher tax. Recreational tax is a

lower. >> It's dilapidated right now. >> depends. >> Let's use it. >> That's where I am with it. I'll argue that all day cuz I think it's a great idea to put it to >> use. >> I hate an empty building.

>> That's a valid point. >> I love manufacturing. >> It's such a waste. >> Yes. >> Remember that store down on Millbury Ave? >> Which >> Which one? >> with Dirty Girl that >> Oh, yeah. That's not even

done yet. >> How long was that empty? >> Uh, it still looks empty. >> a kid. When I was a kid, I used to go to that store and it closed when I moved out of the neighborhood. And that was I'm not going

to say any dates. >> Like what was it? You still own that? >> Yeah. Yeah, Maze Market. >> Used to love that place and then it just sat there for so long. >> when I first moved into town back in the

'70s. >> Yeah. >> Long gone. Long time. Don't bring that up no more. >> Okay. All right. So, Article 9, we're way off base here. >> Okay. >> Um, Article 9, we're going to uh research it some more and

>> Yep. >> hopefully come up with some uh better stuff in our heads and see what happens, okay? >> I'm sorry. >> Go ahead. >> I'm not sure what to research. What are the questions that the board has

that you want me to look into? >> I I don't I didn't have any questions until I read Steve's stuff. >> I know, right? >> >> I'm I'm like I said, >> Yeah, thanks. Thanks a lot, Steve. I appreciate it.

Um, that's why I said now I'm on the line because his stuff makes sense. Some of it. Not all of it. >> >> But uh so does this gentleman here. So >> Mhm. >> I just got a A seed has been planted. >>

Well, so I'll say this, if any board members think about this that and you have questions, factual questions that you want me to find the answers to, just let me know. >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> But plus I

want to I had a email or two, I think, too. >> Like I'm not I'm not going to write a rebuttal to any of the public comments that you received or anything like that, but I can find out oh, what's the

parking requirement for this use versus that use or >> Yeah. >> how do we tax different properties? I don't know, stuff like that. >> Well I don't need to know that. I just like to see it get used so

we can tax it. >> Okay. >> Um Uh-oh. I think I buried my all business not reasonably anticipated. >> All business not reasonably anticipated, Terry? >> Well, I don't have that either. >> Not today? >>

>> All right, I'm going to go right by. I'm going by this. Um >> Victor, you don't have anything, do you? >> Well, no, we did skip one item, the decommissioning bond for 207 Riverland Street. >> Oh,

okay. >> Um that's not ready for tonight. So we're >> Okay. >> Yeah, I probably said it in an email to the board, but you got to say it out loud at the meeting. So that we're pushing that off to the

next meeting. >> Oh, okay. I'm sorry. I didn't >> No worries. >> And we have to approve the minutes. >> And approve the minutes. >> I don't have it. >> Yeah. >> >> I have two. >> Uh let's see.

Decommissioning bond for 207 Riverland Street. >> Make a motion to continue till when? >> The >> The next meeting, November 9th. >> Till November 9th 2026. And what time? >> Okay, and a motion has

been seconded. All in favor? >> I. >> I. >> All right. And approval of minutes for September 28th. Can I get a motion? >> Motion to approve the minutes for September 28th. >> I second that. >> Okay.

Sorry. The motion >> Can we make one more motion to continue the public hearing on the zoning articles to November 9th? >> Oh, I'm sorry. >> Oh, yeah. >> Did you write that down? >> You got that? >>

Oh, okay. >> Continue the public hearing until November 9th. >> I second it. >> Okay, I got a motion. It's been seconded. It's all in favor? >> I. >> I. >> Okay, approval of minutes for September

28th, 2026. >> I already did that, didn't I? >> We didn't get the motion out. >> You got the motion? I did get second it already? >> Yes. >> Oh, okay. I got a motion. It's been seconded. All in favor?

>> I. >> I. >> I. >> I make a motion to adjourn. >> Wow. I don't know. Anybody else have anything they want to discuss? Okay. >> No, I've been waiting for 7 years to say that. >> >> Happy Halloween,

yeah. >> Oh, make a motion for Happy Halloween. >> Okay, I got a motion to adjourn. >> All in favor? >> I. >> >> Make a motion to adjourn to adjourn adjourn adjourn adjourn. >> I second that. >> Okay.

The motion has been seconded. Everybody >> in favor. >> I. >> And we are done. Thank you, folks. >> Happy Halloween. >> Happy Halloween. >> Merry Christmas.