2026-11-02 - Planning and Zoning Commission

00:02Okay, everybody. Good evening and

00:04welcome to the Boisee City Planning and

00:06Zoning Commission public hearing. A few

00:08things to start out with for tonight's

00:09proceedings. Everyone from the public

00:12entering the hearing virtually has been

00:13automatically muted and cannot speak. As

00:16the item you're interested in comes up

00:17for discussion, you'll be called upon

00:18and unmuted. There is a chat function in

00:21Zoom. However, this is not part of the

00:22record and should only be used if

00:24technical difficulties arise. Our

00:26procedures for public hearings begins

00:27with a presentation from the planning

00:29team. Then we'll go to the applicant and

00:31then the representative of the

00:32registered neighborhood association

00:34followed by questions from the

00:35commission. After that, we proceed to

00:37public testimony starting with those who

00:38are in person, then who signed up on the

00:40signup sheet in advance, and then anyone

00:42else who raises their hand virtually. If

00:44you're attending through your telephone,

00:45you can type in star 9 to raise your

00:47hand. Each member of the public is

00:49allowed up to three minutes testimony

00:51and we are strict with this as the time

00:53is limited in code. Finally, the

00:56applicant is allowed 5 minutes for

00:57rebuttal after which the hearing will be

00:59closed and the commission will

01:00deliberate and render a decision. Mr.

01:02Chair, you have the floor.

01:04>> Thank you, Crystal. Good evening,

01:06everyone. We are citiz citizen

01:08volunteers appointed by the mayor and

01:10approved by the city council. We make

01:12final decisions on type three

01:14applications and recommendations to the

01:16city council and type four applications

01:18as specified in the Boise zoning code.

01:20Any appeal to city council from a

01:22decision made tonight must be filed

01:24within 10 days of the written decision.

01:26In order to file an appeal, you must

01:28have given written or oral testimony at

01:30tonight's meeting. So that's why it's

01:32important to give your name and address

01:34when you testify tonight. We utilize the

01:37consent agenda. This means that if the

01:39applicant agrees with the staff report

01:41and if there is no public opposition,

01:43the item will be placed on the consent

01:45agenda. All items that are placed in the

01:48consent agenda are approved with one

01:49motion without further public comment.

01:52For items not on the consent agenda, we

01:55will hold a full public hearing in the

01:57order just detailed a few minutes ago

01:59with staff, applicant, neighborhood

02:02association, and then the public

02:03testimony. Thank you all for attending

02:06tonight. Will the clerk please call the

02:07role?

02:08>> Stanley

02:08>> here.

02:09>> Moore

02:10>> here.

02:11>> Schaefer

02:11>> here.

02:12>> Deha

02:13>> here.

02:14>> Torres

02:15>> here.

02:16>> Darlings

02:17>> here.

02:17>> Deontic

02:18>> here.

02:19>> All present.

02:21>> Okay. Thank you very much. Okay. Uh

02:24before we get started, I'm going to

02:26break the norm a little bit.

02:30We're very aware that one of our items,

02:32our main item this evening, uh, is

02:35certainly going to be quite the topic of

02:37discussion.

02:39We've read all the letters and there's a

02:41lot of incredible things in those

02:44letters. I want to rest you to rest

02:46assure that we have in fact digested

02:48them uh, in all the ways that we can.

02:52I don't want to read this document. What

02:56this document is is about decorum and

02:59it's about this chamber and respecting

03:03one another and all of the things that

03:05could happen with security and all of

03:07that should that not happen. Instead, I

03:10thought I would set the tone with

03:11something a little bit different and I

03:13hope that you'll indulge me for just a

03:14moment. Tomorrow is an election as

03:18everybody is acutely aware and it's a

03:21big day in our country and it's a

03:24constitutional right that all of us have

03:27to go out and to choose the person who

03:29we want to represent us.

03:32There's another constitutional right

03:35that we also support and that right is

03:37called the due process and due process

03:40is entitled and ensured of everybody in

03:43this chamber including the applicant,

03:45our staff even and certainly you as

03:48residents. So, I'm hopeful that in the

03:52spirit of tomorrow, with all of the

03:54constitutional pieces of mind front and

03:57center that we're going to be having as

03:58we express who we choose to to represent

04:01us, that we can remind ourselves of that

04:03tonight and respect one another as much

04:06as possible. So, I would just ask that

04:08we do that as much as we can. Please

04:11direct your questions and comments

04:13toward us. Please try to refrain from

04:16things like clapping and or hissing or

04:18any of those types of things that might

04:20infringe upon that very due process law

04:23that we hold so dear and is codified in

04:26our constitution. So I appreciate your

04:28cooperation. I thank you very much and

04:31can't wait to get to all of the items

04:33tonight and to hear everybody's voices

04:34who wants to speak and express their

04:37their responsibility and their and their

04:39legal right. So thank you for being

04:40here.

04:42Okay. With that, we'll start with the

04:45creation of the consent agenda. First up

04:48is work session minutes and meeting

04:50minutes. These are both uh happening

04:53from October 5th and October 12th. Uh

04:57hopefully the commission has had an

04:59opportunity to review all of them. Are

05:01there any comments on any of those

05:02meeting minutes?

05:05Okay, hearing none, I'll go ahead and

05:06place all four of those meeting minutes

05:09on the consent agenda.

05:11That moves us to item number one. This

05:14is C26-13.

05:17This is given personally located at 3530

05:20West Elder Street. This is an

05:22application for a modification to a

05:25development agreement and uh I don't

05:29think we have anybody. Is the applicant

05:31uh present? Yes. Let the record reflect

05:33the applicant is present. Uh I don't

05:36have anybody on a signup sheet. So, is

05:38there anybody who was willing or wanting

05:41to testify in opposition to item number

05:44one, C26-13?

05:47And that's whether you're pardon me, I

05:53do this.

05:55Anybody in chambers or online?

05:58Okay. Do you agree with the terms and

06:01conditions of the staff report? Okay,

06:02great. Let the record reflect that the

06:04applicant does is present and does uh

06:07agree with the terms and conditions of

06:08the staff report. And seeing no

06:10opposition, we'll go ahead unless any

06:12com any comments of the commission place

06:15item number one on the consent agenda.

06:18Okay, this brings us to item number two.

06:21This is CPA 26-3.

06:24This is actually brought forward by the

06:26city of Boisey itself. And I see our

06:30applicant in the back. This is a

06:31comprehensive plan amendment to update

06:33the historic preservation plan. Um, is

06:37there anybody in chambers or online who

06:39wanted to testify in opposition to this

06:41item, item number two, CTA 2603?

06:45See nobody in online. Nobody in

06:46chambers. Okay. Uh, unless there's

06:49opposition from the staff or the I'm

06:51sorry, from the commission, then we'll

06:52go ahead and place item number two on

06:55the consent agenda. And with that, I'd

06:57entertain a motion.

06:58>> Mr. Sure.

06:59>> Commissioner Moore,

07:00>> I move that we approve the consent

07:01agenda as constructed.

07:03>> I've got a motion by Commissioner Moore

07:05to approve the consent agenda as

07:06constructed. Is there a second?

07:08>> Second.

07:11>> You got to do that.

07:12>> He can have it.

07:14>> All right. To the right. I'm going to go

07:15with Commissioner Torres here. All

07:17right. I got a motion by Commissioner

07:19Moore and a second by Commissioner

07:20Torres. Any discussion? Okay. With the

07:24clerk, please call a role.

07:25>> Danley.

07:26>> I.

07:27>> Moore.

07:27>> I. Schaefer,

07:29>> yes.

07:30>> Deha,

07:31>> yes.

07:32>> Torres,

07:33>> yes.

07:34>> Dawling,

07:34>> hi.

07:35>> Stefansick,

07:36>> yes.

07:37>> All in favor? Motion carries.

07:40>> Okay, very good. That moves us to our

07:43one and only item that is item number

07:45three. This is CU 24-46.

07:48This is strategic and operational

07:50solutions, Inc. This is a request for a

07:53conditional use permit for co-ousing on

07:562.03 03 acres in a pending MX1 zone

07:59located at 2823 North Cole Road. Miss

08:03Lyall, please take it away.

08:10Good evening, Mr. Chair and

08:11Commissioners. The item before you is C

08:132418 and CUP 2446.

08:17This is a request to reszone

08:18approximately 2.03 03 acres located at

08:212823 North Cole Road from R1C to R2 and

08:27a conditional permit for a co-ousing

08:29use.

08:31This project may look familiar as it was

08:33initially before you on January 5th.

08:36While there are many public comments in

08:37opposition, there are also some in

08:38support. After deliberation, the

08:41commission recommended approval of the

08:42reason for the reason stated in the

08:44staff report and deferred the CU for

08:46additional information. As such, there

08:49is no action to be taken on the reszone

08:51this evening and instead we'll focus on

08:53the CUP.

08:56As a reminder, the applicant is

08:57proposing to construct a co-ousing use

08:59on the site which includes individually

09:01leased bedrooms and shared cooking and

09:03sanitary facilities. It is important to

09:05note that this request is not for a

09:07shelter home which is not allowed

09:09allowed in the R2 zone or for a recovery

09:12residence which is defined as a single

09:14dwelling where individuals live together

09:16as one housing unit where staff provides

09:18care supervision and treatments for

09:20persons requiring medical, correctional

09:23or other mandated supervision. The most

09:25significant changes to the program are

09:27shown on the slide and the applicant has

09:29moved from a male only program to

09:30providing services to both men and

09:32women. The program would allow for up to

09:3524 women, 36 men with one mentor in each

09:38four-bedroom unit. Living in the

09:40co-ousing would require participation in

09:42the program with some of the

09:43requirements outlined on the screen.

09:48On your screen is the original site plan

09:50above with the updated site plan below.

09:52The site layout shows that the women's

09:54dorm and proposed neighborhood cafe near

09:56Cole Road, an accessory building

09:58separating the women's dorm from the

09:59men's dorm, and the propo proposed

10:02vehicle shop at the rear of the

10:03property. The proposal will be

10:05approximately 35 ft tall under the 45 ft

10:08allowed in by the R2 zone.

10:12The applicant will install the 10-ft

10:14detached sidewalk along Coal Road and

10:16retain as much existing landscaping as

10:18possible. There are 104 parking spaces

10:21on site and additional parking spaces

10:23provided with the shared parking

10:24agreement with the existing church to

10:26the south. Additionally, the proposal

10:29must receive further design review

10:30approval and administrative zoning

10:32approval for the neighborhood cafe use.

10:36The applicant has provided additional

10:38information on the application process,

10:40operational policies, discipline policy,

10:43and a basic security plan as shown on

10:45the screen. Program participants must

10:47apply and be accepted and individuals in

10:49active addiction or those who require

10:51ongoing medical care would not be

10:52admitted. Participation requires ongoing

10:56adherence to behavioral standards with a

10:58progressive compliance structure that

11:00will result in removal from the program

11:02for those who do not abide by these

11:04requirements.

11:07Public comment has been received mostly

11:09in opposition to the proposal with

11:11general concerns listed on the screen.

11:13Many comments expressed opposition to

11:15the use specifically and cited lack of

11:18program details as well as many safety

11:20concerns about the intended population

11:22and proximity to schools, parks,

11:24libraries, and halfway homes. Other

11:27concerns focus on traffic density and

11:29economic impacts. The letters and

11:31support cited the location of the

11:32subject property, how the proposed use

11:35would support was supported by the

11:36comprehensive plan and a better use than

11:39the vacant land that they're currently,

11:40and how alternative housing types should

11:42not require a conditional use permit.

11:46As previously discussed, the proposal is

11:48not for a shelter house or recovery

11:50residence. Residents would be living

11:52independently within each unit while

11:54meeting program requirements to maintain

11:55their ability to live on the site. All

11:58relevant state and local ordinance must

12:00be met, including those for any um with

12:03criminal backgrounds.

12:05As many of the comments in opposition

12:06focus on the potential residents, it

12:08should be noted that public private

12:10landlords have discretion within the

12:12confines of the Fair Housing Act to

12:14choose to rent to tenants with peral

12:16histories and that decision is not under

12:18consideration in any other land use

12:20application.

12:21The subject property is located in an

12:23area that can support the proposal and

12:25all commenting agencies indicated the

12:27proposal can be served. Finally, the

12:30proposal will be subject to further

12:31design review to ensure all requirements

12:33are met.

12:36On the screen are some sight specific

12:37recommended conditions of approval,

12:39including limiting the use of the

12:41vehicle shop to program participants,

12:43the requirement to work forward a shared

12:45parking agreement, to install additional

12:47bike parking, and to work with Valley

12:49Regional Transit to install a bus stop.

12:53In conclusion, the planning team

12:54recommends approval, and I'm happy to

12:55answer any questions.

12:57>> Okay, great. Thank you, Jesse. Is the

12:58applicant present?

13:00Yep. Okay, go ahead and come on up.

13:04If you would please just state your name

13:06and address for the record and you'll

13:07have up to 20 minutes. Good evening. My

13:09name is David Ruby. I'm the architect

13:11for the project. I'm just going to go

13:13over the site plan very quickly to

13:15highlight the changes and then Mr.

13:17Neighbors is going to come up and

13:19elaborate on why those changes were

13:21made.

13:28>> We're working on it. We'll get it up in

13:29just a second.

14:21Right.

14:22>> That that'll work. If you could just go

14:23to the site plan, I think that'd be Oh.

14:27Oh, now I have to do something.

14:33I'll use this one. I think you all saw

14:35the Did I already say my name and

14:37address?

14:38>> Did you already I'm sorry. Did I miss

14:39it? I thought you did. All right. You're

14:41good.

14:41>> 499 me just in case. My name's David

14:44Ruby.

14:44>> All right.

14:45>> Um so you're looking at the site plan.

14:48Um slightly different view. Um from what

14:50you saw earlier this year, um minor

14:54changes to the form. Um, essentially the

14:56large single structure that used to have

14:59all the housing in one has has split

15:00into two. You can see up on the upper

15:03right hand corner of the site is the

15:05women's dormatory closest to Cole Road.

15:08Uh, immediately south of that is a

15:10coffee shop that we added to the program

15:13um after discussions with staff and um

15:15trying to adhere more closely to the

15:17mixeduse goals of that of the zoning

15:19ordinance. um between the two larger

15:22buildings. Uh previous we had one large

15:25building that had a shop and the

15:27training and the laundry and the bike

15:28storage in it that has been split into

15:30two uh primarily two functions. One to

15:34separate the men's and women's dorms and

15:36two just for space needs to allow the

15:38right setbacks along that limited

15:40stretch of property on the northern

15:42side. Um the largest building you see on

15:45that north side is the men's dorm that

15:47is smaller. And then again the shop that

15:50we've talked about is just exact same

15:52shop just turned. We did rotate it. Um

15:55some discussion about noise and sights

15:58and whatnot. So we rotated it with the

16:00doors facing south to address that a

16:02little bit more. Um you can't really see

16:05from this plan, but each room is

16:09essentially designed the same. There are

16:11two bedrooms flanking a large uh kitchen

16:14and living area. Three of the bedrooms

16:16would be for residents and one would be

16:18for the mentor. Um I'll stand for quick

16:21questions just very specific to site

16:23related and then Steve is going to come

16:25up and talk more much more detail about

16:28the plan and the program and all the

16:30program.

16:31>> Why don't you have go ahead and come on

16:32up? We'll get to questions after we get

16:34through with the neighborhood

16:35association. Okay.

16:36>> So there'll be questions I'm sure of

16:37that.

16:38>> Why don't you go Why don't you go to the

16:39next slide? It'll show the dorm unit

16:41itself. Oh, I do that

16:44couple.

16:46>> You're good.

16:52So, uh, my name is Steve Neighbors. I'm

16:54a strategic and operational solutions.

16:56I'm the president. I also serve in

16:59administrative capacity at Mountain View

17:01Church of the Brethren. And, uh, this is

17:03Christian Safet Academy. It's a

17:06different entity than Mountain View

17:07Church of the Brethren. Mountain De

17:09Church of the Brethren is a open church.

17:12It serves its neighborhood. There's

17:14somewhere between five to nine halfway

17:16houses in the area. Lion H mobile home

17:18park is behind it. The congregation of

17:21Mountain View Church of the Brethren is

17:23uh economically a very poor um

17:26congregation. [sighs and gasps] Uh

17:28Safety Net Academy isn't really focused

17:31on that congregation. It's it's focused

17:34on uh we I spent considerable time going

17:39around checking the market uh for what

17:42wasn't being met, what was needed. And

17:45uh I do have to make one correction. I

17:48made an error with uh interfaith

17:50sanctuary that we could do reciprocation

17:52and we can't do that. I can't violate

17:54their uh their funding mechanisms. So,

17:58uh, but other than that, we I think

18:01there's two or three pages listed of

18:03people that we went to see what was

18:06being served, who wasn't. And so, our

18:10focus is on lower economic people that

18:15didn't, for whatever reason, didn't have

18:17an opportunity or just flat, didn't pay

18:20attention in school. and they're a low

18:24economic um

18:27u unskilled workforce and we want to

18:30provide an a free academic uh program

18:35for them. The dorm is necessary to

18:38create the culture, their learning

18:41disciplines and to uh and to make sure

18:44they stay on task. And so there's

18:47on-site staff

18:49and I've I've built a little website

18:51that that I think tells everybody and

18:54I've made it available to the public.

18:57And so I don't know if that's shut open

19:00for questions or

19:05um I do think that maybe I should go to

19:08uh

19:10the security plan and the application

19:12plan.

19:13So

19:15that's

19:17let's see am I going so

19:21so here's the summary is a summary

19:24flowchart of the application process

19:27so anybody

19:30anybody in the city or that can come to

19:33it can come to the training free however

19:38there's priority given to the dorm

19:40people because the dorm people this

19:42self-funding. We're not looking to uh

19:46government funds.

19:48Uh each resident in the dorm will pay

19:52right now the proformer shows about $650

19:55a month. That's room that's act that's a

19:58private bedroom, kitchen. Um it uh

20:03includes a food bank, includes a

20:04clothing bank, includes an auto shop. It

20:08includes trade a trade room for

20:10training. Um and then the church,

20:14neither the academy

20:16nor the church does any training. We're

20:18simply providing

20:20um the resources for the living and for

20:25the church provides the training um the

20:27computer labs, the lecture hall. They

20:31only use their uh their facility about

20:3312 hours a week. And so they want to use

20:36their facility to help um their

20:40neighbors and whoever else wants to use

20:42it to improve their life skills.

20:46The academy does provide a trade

20:49training room and we've interviewed all

20:53kinds of different trades and every one

20:54of the trades were excited about being

20:56able to come and um show what their

20:59skills I mean what their trade is like

21:01the pros and cons to it and possibly

21:04find apprentice

21:06apprentices for those programs.

21:09One of the major causes for homelessness

21:12is uh not maintaining their automobile

21:15or their vehicle or their scooter or

21:17whatever they got. And so that's what

21:19the shop's for. Um

21:23one of the reasons we split

21:27originally

21:28I wasn't going to start with a women's

21:30dorm. I support anti-ex trafficking. I

21:35provide the facility for anti-ex

21:37trafficking at Carson City. I have an

21:38office in Carson City and

21:43it's one of the Nevada is one of the

21:45highest sex trafficking states

21:48in the United States. And in I think in

21:52two years over 160 women were pulled out

21:56of sex trafficking. And the problem is

22:01they they learn that their value is only

22:05their the sex they can give. And I I

22:08thought I'd start without mixing that

22:10because they have to go through a

22:11process. They have to retrain their

22:13thinking. And that's what we learned at

22:15at Exquisite, which is the program I

22:18support in Carson City.

22:20I also support

22:22Ron Woods ministry with this facility in

22:27Carson City and it deals with foster

22:30kids and abused children. And uh my

22:34heart is for the foster kids because I

22:36was a foster kid. I was in various

22:38different homes. Um as a street kid here

22:42in Boisee. Um and I think a lot of those

22:47kids end up in the prison system. They

22:50end up they age out at 18 and there's

22:53very little they can do. Only about 25%

22:56of them go on in education. So, so

23:01anyway, that's who I want to see if we

23:02can help as well. So, that's the

23:05program.

23:11>> Mr. Chair, I don't think we got Mr.

23:13Neighbor's address.

23:14>> I think we got the church. I don't know

23:16if that was good enough, but yeah,

23:17that's a good catch.

23:18>> Office address or

23:19>> your official

23:23>> personal?

23:24>> Your office would probably be better.

23:255598 North Eagle Road, Boise, Idaho

23:2983713.

23:30>> Very good. Do you have more or do you

23:32are you wanting questions from us at

23:34>> I'm I'm done.

23:35>> Okay. Very good. If you're good, then

23:37you can go and have a seat. If your team

23:39is good, then Okay, we'll go ahead and

23:41turn our attention to the neighborhood

23:42association and then stand

23:44>> uh Pat for some questions. So, the

23:46neighborhood association here is the

23:47West Bench. Um is the representative,

23:50this would be maybe Jonathan Melby in in

23:53chambers.

23:55want to come on up and I'm assuming

23:56you're gonna

23:58provide testimony. Are you Jonathan, by

24:01the way? Okay, wonderful.

24:07>> Uh, we can get to that, but you're

24:09listed first. Oh.

24:23Okay.

24:25>> [clears throat]

24:26>> So, good evening, Chair Danley and

24:28commissioners. I'm Jonathan Melby and I

24:31serve as president of the Westbench

24:32Neighborhood Association and I'm

24:34speaking for WBNA this evening. We

24:37recognize this pro what this program

24:39hopes to do and the work Mountain View

24:41Church has put into it. The idea is that

24:44>> Can I have you pause real quick? Can you

24:46would you mind pulling the microphone

24:47just a little bit closer to your There

24:48we go.

24:50>> And address, please.

24:51>> Oh, we miss the address again. I'm man

24:53I'm missing them. Sorry.

24:55>> Say that again.

24:56>> Uh your address please.

24:57>> Oh my address is 2924 North Maywood

25:00Avenue in Boise.

25:02>> Thank you very much.

25:03>> Okay.

25:03>> Please continue.

25:04>> Thank you. We recognize that this pro

25:07what this program hopes to do and the

25:09work Mountain View Church has put into

25:11it. The idea that young adults working

25:14on job and life skills, including young

25:17people who've aged out of foster care

25:20and others seeking a second chance,

25:23would live together and learn alongside

25:26seniors who serve as mentors. Our

25:29question isn't about the goal. They're

25:32about whether the permit includes the

25:34limits needed to protect the surrounding

25:36area. Clear Limits would serve people in

25:40this program and uh and would serve

25:43people in this program. This program

25:46hopes to help as well.

25:49I'd like to make three points. I'm

25:52assuming that you all have the written

25:54testimony, so I'm kind of condensing

25:56here and and highlighting some other

25:58areas. First, there's no cap on how many

26:01residents could be under supervision,

26:04correctional supervision, or on the

26:06registered sex offenders list.

26:09Second, the code has no category for use

26:13like this at this scale.

26:17And third, conditions can't fill that

26:20gap on the record that's present.

26:25So, the first point, there's still no

26:27cap.

26:29Back in January, Chair Danley explained

26:32why a cap matters

26:35because I don't have that written

26:37anywhere on a cap maximum or something

26:40like that. I don't have the

26:41determination on if things are being

26:43mitigated in the right way, which is the

26:46fundamental question that we have to ask

26:48about conditional use permit. And later

26:51that evening, the applicant said, "I'm

26:54open to a limit."

26:57The proposal is now for up to 80 program

26:59residents.

27:01Back in January, the applicant said,

27:04"Our target isn't those coming out of

27:06prison,

27:08but the updated proposals target group

27:10includes people who quote remain under

27:13community supervision.

27:15And yet, the proposal still sets no cap,

27:18share, or number for them."

27:22Staff's late correspondence memo notes

27:24that many opposition comments assume a

27:27high concentration of individuals with

27:29sex offenses or other criminal offenses.

27:33We agree no one should assume a number.

27:37WBNA's written testimony didn't. It

27:40pointed out that there is no number.

27:43That's why a cap belongs on the

27:45conditions where the commission, the

27:48applicant, and nearby residents can all

27:50rely on it.

27:54WBNA's concerns fall under criterion 2,

27:57impacts on the surrounding area and

27:59whether they're mitigated.

28:04Point two, the code has no category for

28:07this scale.

28:09Today, the code offers two choices. One

28:13is a recovery residence, a quote single

28:16housekeeping unit for the quote

28:19exclusive use of people under

28:22supervision.

28:24In January, staff called it one

28:27individual household.

28:29The other is co-housing where the

28:32director placed this project and its

28:36standards cover such things as the

28:38common space or optional shared kitchen

28:41or the water supply. So they're two very

28:44different buckets.

28:46Commissioner Moore's reasoning in

28:48January was right because this project

28:50isn't for exclusive use. It isn't a

28:54recovery residence. So it lands in

28:56co-housing

28:59staff applied the code correctly and

29:02we're not asking you to reclassify it.

29:06But here's what that means.

29:08Recovery residence is the only use in

29:11the code that mentions correctional

29:12supervision

29:14and it fits only a single household

29:17where everyone is under supervision.

29:23Once a project mixes in other residents

29:26or grows past one household,

29:30it falls into co-housing. And co-housing

29:33has no operating expectations.

29:38That's true whether the project has

29:40eight residents or 80 or 200

29:44and whether a few of them are under

29:47supervision or most are. a staff as

29:50staff said in January, we haven't had

29:53anything come forward quite like this.

30:00Chair Danley saw this and he said, "If

30:0210% of the units fall in any one of

30:05those categories,

30:07we might have a de facto separate use."

30:13Commissioner Moore raised a fair point

30:14from the other direction. She said she

30:16was struggling to find a requirement

30:19specifically for us to delve so deeply

30:21into the operations of this facility.

30:25And we think that's the gap.

30:30Co-ousing doesn't ask about operations,

30:33but the code does ask where a uses

30:36impacts depend on how it runs and how

30:38many people it serves. For example,

30:41daycare is one of the clearest examples.

30:44It sorts by headcount with more review

30:46as the number grows.

30:50The applicant's own description makes

30:53this question foreseeable.

30:55The church has quote a robust interview

30:58process for those under community

31:00supervision due to a sex offense

31:03and quote for anyone who applies under

31:06community supervision. Idok's input will

31:09be part of the interview process.

31:12Those are the applicants words about who

31:14may apply. They make this question real,

31:17not hypothetical.

31:22Staff's late correspondence memo says

31:25the applicant quote must follow all

31:27state laws concerning anyone with a

31:29criminal offense.

31:32We agree.

31:34For registered sex offenders, state law

31:37points back to the city.

31:40When more than two would live in one

31:42dwelling unit, a city quote may

31:45establish standards for the

31:46establishment and operation of that

31:49housing.

31:50Those standards quote shall include

31:53establishing procedures to allow comment

31:56of neighbor residents within a specific

31:58distance. They may also set zones where

32:01such houses can be located, the distance

32:03between them, the maximum number of

32:05registered sex offenders allowed to

32:06reside in in such houses.

32:10standards for supervision

32:13and care and qualifications for

32:15operators, including whether residents

32:17must take part in treatment or pro or

32:20support programs. This is all part of

32:22state statute chapter 18 section 8331.

32:27And part four lays out what the powers

32:29that cities and counties have to

32:31regulate this.

32:34In other words, the legislature meant or

32:37treats a limit on the whole operation,

32:40how it's run, as local decisions.

32:43We haven't found standards like that in

32:46Boise's code. I don't see them there.

32:50Spacing matters here. The applicant's

32:52own submitt says there are nine halfway

32:54houses within a onem radius of the site.

32:58It describes iron sharpens iron as a

33:01halfway house next door to Mountain View

33:03Church and on Cole Road next to 80

33:05county jail. One building holds two

33:07more. Port of Hope, which is the Federal

33:10Bureau of Prisons lists as a residential

33:12re-entry center and felon friendly 208,

33:16which offers transitional housing for

33:18men. Port of Hope came to this

33:20commission in 2014 under the old codes

33:23halfway house use for up to 72

33:27residents. Staff found it compatible

33:29because of how it operates. Residents

33:31had no cars, left only for work and

33:34doctor's appointments, and had their

33:35whereabouts verified whenever they were

33:38offsite. That's the kind of review of

33:41review a defined use prompts.

33:45Today's code has no category that does

33:47that. We raise this not to say who

33:50belongs in our area, but because state

33:52law names spacing and operations as

33:55things the city can set.

33:58Last third point, conditions can't fill

34:01the gap on this record. WBA WBNA's

34:05written testimony made three points.

34:07First,

34:09the cap chair Danley asked for still

34:12isn't in the 55 recommended conditions.

34:15Second, the security plan protects the

34:17campus, not the surrounding area. Its

34:19stated purpose is quote to protect

34:21students, staff, and property.

34:24The proposal calls for four on-site

34:26employees.

34:28Its interview team is quote the skills

34:31improvement counselor,

34:34the training coordinator, and the

34:36receptionist.

34:38It doesn't describe staff trained to

34:41support residents mental health or to

34:44work with people on probation and

34:46parole.

34:49Third, the conditions don't include the

34:51program. The staff's finding on criteria

34:542 relies on the program, but none of the

34:57conditions mention occupancy limits,

34:59staffing, screening, or the operations

35:01plan.

35:04This isn't about the commission's

35:05authority. The code lets you attach

35:08conditions quote requiring more

35:10restrictive standards than those

35:12generally required if they're reasonably

35:15related and proportionate to the

35:17anticipated impacts.

35:21What's missing is a basis and the record

35:23gives no number to set

35:29and

35:30I'm doing okay. Okay.

35:36Staff's memo notes that a private

35:38landlord's choice of tenants isn't a

35:41land use matter. WBNA isn't talking

35:44about individual tenants. Our concern is

35:47the project as a whole, how many

35:49residents it serves and how many of them

35:51are under supervision or on registry,

35:54how it's staffed, and how the permit

35:57require what the permit requires over

35:59time. This isn't a landlord choosing

36:02tenants for an apartment building.

36:04Residents come through the program's

36:05application and interview process and

36:08for people under supervision that

36:10includes ID do input.

36:13So the number of residents under

36:14supervision is something the program

36:16itself controls. A cap would put a

36:19number in the conditions. Counting the

36:23status isn't new either. State law

36:25already limits registered sex offenders

36:27per dwelling unit and the code defines a

36:30recovery residence

36:33by supervision status. A cap sets a

36:36share of residence

36:38or a cap sets as a share of residence

36:40would be proportionate. It wouldn't

36:42exclude anyone.

36:45So the commission has two paths and they

36:48end at the same place.

36:51If the cap is the right tool, the record

36:53doesn't give you a number because the

36:55applicant hasn't proposed one. And if

36:58you're unsure whether a cap is allowed,

37:01that's a fair fair question for the city

37:03attorney. But then nothing in the

37:06conditions addresses this impact. Either

37:08way, we don't think the record supports

37:11finding criteria to met tonight.

37:15There's one more reason that defined use

37:17matters more than any condition. The

37:19conditions you write tonight apply to

37:21this permit at this site.

37:24They don't follow the use. The next

37:26program like this starts from scratch.

37:29In most zones, it would need its own

37:32permit and its own conditions written

37:33again.

37:36A defined use is different. Its

37:39standards apply wherever it shows up,

37:41including when an existing building

37:43changes that use. Daycare works that

37:46way. Board of Hopes 2014 permit shows

37:49the other side. Its condition 9 requires

37:52any change it in its use meet the rules

37:56in force at the time that protects the

37:59nearby residents if the code has rules

38:02for the new use.

38:04So here's the ask.

38:07In conclusion, WBNA respectfully asked

38:11the commission to find that criteria 2

38:13is not met be because the record does

38:15not show that material negative impacts

38:17on the surrounding area will be

38:19mitigated to the maximum extent

38:20practicable.

38:23No cap or operating commitment is part

38:25of the conditions. We ask the commission

38:28to deny CUP2446.

38:32WBNA also suggested defined use might be

38:35an easier path for the next project like

38:38this one. It would work similar to

38:40daycare with tiers on the number of

38:41residents under correctional supervision

38:43on the registry. Though the number of

38:45tiers and their ranges might differ.

38:47Each tier would have its own zones and

38:49operating standards for the regent part.

38:52State law already gives the outline I

38:55described earlier, including a common

38:58procedure for nearby residents. A

39:01condition in one permit can create that

39:04procedure.

39:06So,

39:07as you question the applicant, I hope

39:09you'll ask, would you accept a cap in

39:11the conditions on how many registers or

39:14residents would be on probation, parole,

39:16federalized supervision, or the

39:18registry?

39:21and if so, what number would you propose

39:24and how would it be counted and verified

39:26over time if a limit comes up later this

39:30evening? Those same questions apply.

39:34Thank you. Okay. Thank you very much,

39:36Mr. Milby. Nope. That's exactly what I

39:39can't have. Precisely that. Thank you

39:42for refraining. Okay. Uh are there any

39:45other neighborhood associations? Not

39:47homeowners associations. This is a

39:50registered neighborhood association.

39:52Okay. And you're the represented

39:54designation designated T or designated.

39:56Yeah.

39:57>> Yes.

39:57>> Okay. Great. However you say that,

39:59>> Mr. Chair. Which neighborhood

40:00association?

40:02>> Oh, this is Winstead Park.

40:06>> Good evening. My name is Sally Riley.

40:08Uh, address is 1319 North 8th Street.

40:11Um, I'm speaking tonight as a board

40:13member of the Winstead Park Neighborhood

40:15Association, which shares the Coal Road

40:17border with this project. As a

40:20neighborhood association, we want to

40:22represent the collective interests of

40:23our residents in ensuring thoughtful,

40:26safe, and code compliant growth in our

40:28community. We recognize the compact

40:31>> I need I'm going to have to have it

40:32pause for a quick second. I need a

40:34clarification from staff. Pardon me

40:36while we get this figured out.

40:38>> Mr. Chair for Winstead Park. We have

40:40Amanda Hunty Hunt. Is that your name? As

40:43the

40:51>> Great. That was all we needed to know.

40:52We We can really only have the people

40:54who are designated. So, thank you for

40:56that. Oh, okay.

40:57>> Thank you very much. Please continue.

40:59All right. Um, we recognize the

41:01compassionate mission articulated by the

41:03Mountain View Church of the Brethren to

41:06provide affordable dorm style housing

41:08and skilluing opportunities for people

41:10facing economic hardship. At the same

41:13time, we acknowledge the genuine

41:15questions raised by our neighbors across

41:19all our discussions with neighbors,

41:20including those who attended our annual

41:22meeting and those who approached us

41:24privately. Some common questions

41:26emerged. We re we present these

41:28questions because they represent the

41:30open concerns held by our neighbors.

41:32Those questions include,

41:35has the applicant or the city verified

41:38how this facility will comply with Idaho

41:40code 18-8331,

41:43which restricts the number of sex

41:45offenders in a dwelling unit? And does

41:48the city intend to establish specific

41:50standards under subsection 4 to govern

41:54oversight?

41:56What specific screening criteria,

41:59disqualification factors, or risk

42:02assessment tools will be standardized in

42:04the facilities operating manual to

42:06ensure resident and neighborhood safety?

42:12Will the conditional use permit mandate

42:14professional 247 on-site management

42:17staffing? And what specific staffto

42:20resident ratios will be required during

42:22night and weekend hours? What licenses

42:25will staff members hold such as licensed

42:27clinical social worker or will they be

42:30non-licensed staff? How does the

42:33contractor plan to mitigate neighborhood

42:35concerns about security? Will these

42:37security plans be submitted for formal

42:39review by the Boise Police Department?

42:41And what protocols exist for resolving

42:44operational non-compliance or nuisance

42:48complaints?

42:50How will drug and alcohol policies be

42:52monitored and enforced? And what

42:54discharge protocols are in place if a

42:56resident leaves or is removed from the

42:59program? if there is enough vehicle

43:02parking for the number of occupants and

43:03how will traffic be impacted if these

43:07are three and fourbedroom units which I

43:09think that they've changed now to

43:11two-bedroom units so um how can we be

43:13assured that they will not be transition

43:15transitioned into full family units in

43:18the future what conditions will ensure

43:20that the facility maintains its intended

43:23programming which is currently

43:24designated both men and women and

43:28management standard rather than reverse

43:30ing to an unmonitored highdensity

43:33residential building. Does the proposed

43:36building height setback and

43:37architectural bulk adequately transition

43:39to neighborhooding single family

43:41properties or are modifications to step

43:44down the building height necessary?

43:47As evidenced by these questions are a

43:49lot of neighbors seeking answers. We

43:50hope that this permit process

43:52illuminates those answers in a way that

43:55focuses on thoughtful, safe, and

43:57positive lives in our community.

44:12Thank you.

44:13>> Okay.

44:15Thank you, Mr. Riley. Appreciate it. All

44:16right. Are there any other registered

44:19neighborhood associations

44:21here this evening? It looks like none

44:23and none online. Okay. With that, uh,

44:27let's do this. instead of going right

44:29into questions. I think we're going to

44:30have a lot of questions and so I'd

44:32rather just take a break now and then

44:34we'll reconvene in five minutes and then

44:35we'll begin our Q&A. So let's break for

44:38five, please.

44:48>> Okay, if we could reconvene that would

44:50be awesome.

44:56All right.

45:02All right. Thank you everybody.

45:03Appreciate it. Uh so at this point we're

45:05going to go ahead and I'll turn it over

45:07to my fellow commissioners to ask all

45:10the questions that they have. Um I don't

45:13need anybody saying let's just keep

45:15going. If you have like 10 questions,

45:16just ask your questions and we'll just

45:18get them going. Uh to the applicant, I

45:20would encourage you just to come up

45:21here. I'm sure many of them are going to

45:23be to you. Um, and then to the

45:24neighborhood associations, there might

45:26be some questions your way. So, you

45:28might want to move up here. You don't

45:29have to. Uh, but we'll get rolling. And

45:32who wants to go first?

45:34>> Mr. Chair,

45:36>> I have a couple.

45:36>> Mr. Seahhawk, go for it.

45:38>> Questions. Just clarification. Um, so

45:41Mr. neighbors. Um the application speaks

45:44to a 650

45:46um monthly rent and a program fee, but

45:50there's nothing about um what that

45:52program fee is. Um and if that's a

45:54onetime fee or if that's a monthly fee.

45:57>> That's a monthly fee for the dorm. Um

46:00and also it pays for the uh uh the staff

46:04supervision and a monthly uh uh career

46:08counselor meeting.

46:10So, it's the 650 plus a program fee.

46:13>> No, 650 includes all the education as

46:16well.

46:17>> Okay. Um, and then I know when we first

46:20saw this um in January, there was talk I

46:23remember you providing comment on like,

46:25well, you can have someone and they

46:27could stay for a couple of months and

46:29then they may choose to leave. So, I was

46:31just wondering if because I didn't see

46:33anything in the application that spoke

46:34to like how long residents can live on

46:36site. So for a resident to be there,

46:40they have to be employed

46:42>> and we generally interact with the uh

46:45the plan is to interact with the

46:47employer and the uh and the resident and

46:51what and we hope that the employer will

46:54give some incentives also, you know, to

46:57help pay the 650. U so um

47:02um they may have a three-month plan,

47:04they may have a four-year plan. Okay,

47:07cool. Um, and then on the coffee shop,

47:10is that a private is that scheduled to

47:14be a private coffee shop or will it be

47:16open to the general public?

47:18>> Um, we don't have visitors in the

47:21bedrooms. So, that's one of the rules in

47:23the uh and so we really would like the

47:27coffee shop area to have visitors where

47:29people could have family members, that

47:31kind of thing come over. Well, if

47:33someone wanted to come over from the um

47:36house across the street, could they come

47:39over and have a glass or a cup of

47:41coffee?

47:42>> We would like that. I don't know if

47:43that's permitted. Our intent is to

47:45follow the law and every every in all

47:48elements.

47:49>> Okay. Um just two more. So, you know, as

47:54staff has indicated like you know what's

47:57before the us today on the conditional

47:59use permit. um we don't have any purview

48:03on deciding or speaking to who can and

48:07cannot live there. And as um Miss Ly

48:10said, you know, like you're private

48:13property owner and it's your prerogative

48:16to decide who you rent to. But I do have

48:20a question um and and I you know in

48:23reading the public comment it was a

48:24common question is like um who will

48:27provide the specialized services for

48:31folks that that reside there if they

48:33need them?

48:34>> So we'll have an on-site manager and

48:37probably an assistant because it's 24

48:39hours. Um, we're going to have a career

48:42counselor um that's going to help people

48:45interact with their employers and what

48:47you know what we have about 10,000

48:50different programs that we can put

48:51people in. Uh they may want to go into a

48:54different direction. So they may want to

48:56go into a trade and so we'll inter So

48:59anyway, that's what the career counselor

49:01does. will end up having someone that

49:03does bookkeeping and keeping track of

49:06the four hours of community service a

49:08week that each uh student has to

49:10perform.

49:12>> Uh are you anticipating any um

49:18uh

49:19specialized or professional that can

49:23provide like counseling?

49:26>> No. if if uh if they have mental issues,

49:30medical issues, anything like that, then

49:33we're not qualified for that. So, we

49:35specifically said that uh we can't take

49:37people with mental issues or that are

49:40still on alcohol, drugs, or still have

49:43th those kind of issues. This is simply

49:45for the lower economic that have uh that

49:50we just aren't equipped to deal with the

49:52mentally ill. I'll just put it that way.

49:55Okay. Uh my last question. So um in your

49:59application you talk about the security

50:01team. Um besides residents who who

50:05besides residents as identified in your

50:07application um who can volunteer their

50:11four hours to be part of the security

50:13team. Are there who else is part of the

50:15security team? So uh we plan on

50:19supplying uh free room to the assistant

50:21manager as well on site and so between

50:24the on-site and the assistant manager

50:27they'll coordinate those who want to

50:30serve their volunteer time in different

50:32security teams. So, we also uh we I um

50:38we've also talked about having you know

50:41one I guess I guess I need to react a

50:45little bit. This is not a prison. This

50:48is not people. This isn't a halfway

50:51house. This isn't transitional home. is

50:53for I I admit that they may be

50:56economically

50:58challenged and they may not be the

51:00pretty people in society, but they're

51:02not in prison. Uh they're not at risk.

51:06If there's any sense of risk to the

51:08community, then they won't pass muster.

51:12So that's what we say in our application

51:14process or flowchart.

51:16>> Okay. Thank you.

51:18>> Okay. Hey, before I go to any other

51:20questions, I neglected to mention that

51:21we also have a representative uh from

51:23Boise PD who can answer any questions

51:26with respect to public safety. So, if

51:28any of those questions are among us,

51:30then appreciate their our time their

51:33time too. Okay. Any other questions?

51:34>> Mr. Chair,

51:35>> Commissioner Torres,

51:36>> um kind of following up on that, Mr.

51:38Neighbors, um you mentioned you're not

51:40equipped to deal with people with mental

51:42health issues. How are you going to

51:44determine that? you know,

51:46[clears throat]

51:46is somebody who has clinical depression

51:49or bipolar and they're on medication and

51:51it's controlled, is that somebody who

51:53you consider to be have a mental

51:55illness, is it someone who is

51:57schizophrenic? Like, how how would you

51:58determine that as far as your your

52:00>> So, part of the

52:03initial screening is they have to be

52:05employed. They have to be employed 40

52:07hours a week. They have to be able to

52:08hold a job. They're already integrated

52:11into society. what we're trying to do is

52:13just help their economic and life skills

52:16be improved. So that's one. Two, there's

52:19a uh you know, if there's any sense of

52:22that, um [snorts] you know, I understand

52:25that some people have to have

52:26medication. I have to take uh you know,

52:29Eloquist for my blood clots and stuff

52:31like that. I mean, that's not what I'm

52:32focused on, but if somebody's got some

52:35mental challenges, they're not going to

52:38work well at a dorm and they're uh and

52:42when we don't have on-site psychiatric

52:45uh help, you know, it's that's not what

52:48that's not what we're focused on. Kind

52:50of as a followup on that, I I think I I

52:53need to note that most of these mental

52:55health conditions are going to be

52:56something that is it's private. It's

52:58private information unless they disclose

52:59it to you. Um, so that's kind of why I

53:02asked that question. Um, but I'm going

53:04to pivot a little bit to the security

53:05plan. So I I wanted to ask, have you

53:08considered just having on-site um

53:10security, you know, 24 hours a day or in

53:13the evenings or or during school hours,

53:15you know, just assuage some of the

53:16concerns of the neighborhood?

53:19Um yeah, so we plan on having um

53:23security teams made up of the students

53:27and some of the mentors that want to

53:30serve their four hours a week that way.

53:33Uh but like I said, this isn't this

53:35isn't a prison compound.

53:38And everybody keeps trying to make it

53:40this is a prison release or a

53:42transitional home. That's not what we're

53:43after. So to clarify and I understand

53:46that it's not prison. I just mean, you

53:48know, there you do have apartment

53:49buildings, usually they're in bigger

53:51cities than ours, but that have a

53:53doorman or security staff, you know, a

53:55professional security guard or something

53:58along those lines as opposed to having,

53:59you know, students who are who are

54:01essentially volunteers

54:03doing the security.

54:04>> So, that's why I asked that question.

54:06Have you considered that?

54:06>> Well, we have, you know, we do have

54:08on-site people unlike a lot of apartment

54:10complexes. They just have property

54:12managers. Uh so we have uh and we have

54:17on-site senior citizens too. You know uh

54:20one in every dorm unit. Um

54:24this you know everybody keeps trying to

54:26make this be some kind of

54:29semi- prison. That's not what this is.

54:33>> Yeah. To clarify, I'm not assuming it's

54:34a prison. I'm just trying to assuage

54:36some of the concerns of of your

54:37neighbors. Um I do have a question for

54:40staff. Um,

54:42so it was mentioned in the staff report

54:44that this this project is going to have

54:46to follow all relevant state and local

54:48laws and ordinances related to the

54:51residents as far as criminal records,

54:53you know, if they're on release, if

54:54they're on sex offender registry. Do you

54:57know off the top of your head what those

54:58limits are for a property?

55:03>> Mr. Mr. Chair and commissioners, um I

55:05know that there are certain limits in

55:06residential zones that are more than in

55:08mixed use zones, which is why they were

55:11talking about the resone. Uh the R2 was

55:13the one selected because that is more

55:15restricted by state law. Um as for

55:18anyone on like probation or parole, I

55:21believe that is up to their uh probation

55:24or parole officer. I don't think that um

55:27there's specific state statutes, but

55:29that's not really my area of expertise.

55:32kind of as a followup, and you might not

55:33know the answer to this either, so I

55:35apologize for asking you in another way.

55:37Um, do you know as far as like limits on

55:40numbers of sex offenders in in the

55:42property, would it be by unit, so those

55:44two bedrooms around the shared use space

55:47by building or by the property as a

55:49whole? Is that something? Do you have do

55:51you know any information as far as that

55:52goes?

55:53>> Mr. Chair and commissioners, I believe

55:55it's by unit. Um, from what I've read,

55:59>> and I have maybe one or two more, Mr.

56:01chair and then I'll pass it on.

56:03>> Um Jesse, um the neighborhood

56:05association asked us if we could um you

56:09know asked if if stated that we'd be

56:12able to potentially impose a cap on the

56:14number of of certain types of residents

56:16in the property. Understanding this is a

56:18land use application and we have limits

56:20as far as how we can do that. Is it your

56:22understanding that we can put a cap on

56:24the total number of either people on

56:26probation or parole sex offenders? Is

56:29that something that the code allows us

56:30to do or are we prevented from doing

56:33that by by the code?

56:35>> Mr. Chair and commissioners, um I don't

56:37believe that's something that a land use

56:38like application can do. Um however,

56:42there would be again state uh laws that

56:45anyone would have to follow as well as

56:48federal laws concerning the federal

56:49housing or fair housing act.

56:52>> One last question. This is for Mr.

56:53Neighbors. Okay. So, understanding that

56:55based on what Jesse just said, we cannot

56:57impose a a cap on you, are you willing

57:00to voluntarily consider a cap on the

57:02number of people who are on parole,

57:05probation, you know, um or on this

57:08registry who would be allowed to live at

57:09the property, obviously still complying

57:11with state and local law.

57:12>> Yeah. Now, Jonathan Melby asked that and

57:15asked that I would entertain that and we

57:18talked about it. Our perspective, I

57:20guess, is we don't want fear

57:24or fair sake,

57:27um, or economic snobbery, if you would,

57:31dictate who we think we can share the

57:34gospel with and, uh, mentor, uh, and

57:39help raise their life and economic skill

57:42sets. And so though we're not focused on

57:46that, uh we're aware of all the rules.

57:49We're aware if somebody comes into

57:51Mountain View Church, which has a much

57:53more open policy,

57:55um we know we know what the judge has

57:58said, what the parole board has said,

58:00what the parole officer has said, what

58:02their limits are, and there's and we get

58:04a request for information. So Mountain

58:06View goes through a very severe, I mean

58:09very detailed process. If we end up

58:13accepting somebody in

58:16um community supervision, then we will

58:19go through that same process and there's

58:22a 10 10point scale on

58:26whether somebody's going to reaffend or

58:28not. And we we look at the one, not the

58:32tens. There's no we don't take

58:34predators. We won't risk our ministry.

58:39We're not going to be stupid. We're not

58:42we're not going to risk our ministry and

58:44our students and our senior citizens by

58:47being not using discretion. And that's

58:50why we have a really robust application

58:53process.

58:56Thank you.

58:59>> All right. U other questions,

59:01>> Mr. Chair.

59:02>> Commissioner Stallings.

59:04>> Question for staff.

59:07Um staff findings reference you the

59:10applicant's screening behavioral

59:12expectations and program structure. Um

59:15to what extent are those elements

59:17incorporated in the conditions of

59:18approval? Can you walk us a little bit

59:20through that in more detail?

59:22>> Mr. Chair and commissioners. Uh so the

59:24applicant has submitted their operations

59:27plan that was included in your packet as

59:29part of the public record. And so

59:31generally any of the materials submitted

59:35with the application is something that

59:36they'd have to abide by. Um I could see

59:39for an operation like this maybe having

59:42some kind of not you know specific limit

59:45on following this exact thing to a te as

59:48um an operation or this program moves

59:52forward and they would like to change

59:53things differently but generally they'd

59:55have to comply um with all the

59:59application materials.

1:00:01And then just a quick followup on that.

1:00:03If their program is outlined in the

1:00:05application changes

1:00:07in any significance in the future, what

1:00:10triggers additional city review and and

1:00:13what agency jumps in at that at what

1:00:16stage?

1:00:19>> Um, madame or sorry, I was mad.

1:00:25I'm nowhere near. [laughter]

1:00:28Uh can you elaborate on that a little

1:00:31bit?

1:00:31>> Just um yeah I apologize poor wording.

1:00:34um

1:00:36they've outlined what they intend to do

1:00:39but if that changes in a year 2 years

1:00:43what enforcement mechanism is there and

1:00:46at what stage I guess right like how do

1:00:49we how how is that governed long term if

1:00:53any if anything is adjusted or you know

1:00:56what variables trigger like throw a flag

1:01:00and say we now we have more city

1:01:03governance involved.

1:01:06>> Mr. Chair and Commissioner Collings. So,

1:01:08I think we would look at it a couple

1:01:10different ways. So, if they were um

1:01:12planning on modifying the site at all,

1:01:15like the actual land use portion of that

1:01:17um then we would take a look at that at

1:01:20that time. Um if they were planning on

1:01:23modifying a building, changing

1:01:24landscaping, modifying the parking

1:01:26agreement, that's something that we have

1:01:28um preview over with the len

1:01:30application. Um, as far as the

1:01:32conditional use for the co-housing, if

1:01:34they were to modify that use

1:01:38specifically um, in any significant

1:01:40form, then we could take another look at

1:01:42that as well.

1:01:47>> Question for the applicant.

1:01:49Um, but not to, you know, to reiterate

1:01:54what Commissioner Torres asked, but on

1:01:57the screening, you know, you said

1:01:59yourself we won't take predators, but

1:02:02how will you determine what to like

1:02:06without a credited review body and and

1:02:09and individuals to assess that on

1:02:12intake? How do you assess

1:02:16what qualifies as, you know, a mental

1:02:18health somebody battling mental health?

1:02:21There are people with full-time jobs

1:02:23with mental health, you know, issues and

1:02:26and what defines a predator without um a

1:02:29qualified professional, accredited

1:02:31professional assessing these the the

1:02:34intake forms and the intake applicant.

1:02:36>> I think I can speak to that from the

1:02:38experience at Mountain View Church of

1:02:39the Brother and its safety policy.

1:02:42So, um, [clears throat]

1:02:44and again, the academy is much more

1:02:47restrictive. We're not we're not a

1:02:49church in essence. Um, one, if somebody

1:02:54is on community supervision for whatever

1:02:57reason,

1:02:58um, whatever felony, there's a, uh,

1:03:01there's a judge that has set the the

1:03:04conditions. There's a parole board that

1:03:06has reviewed whether they are on parole

1:03:09and are out on community supervision.

1:03:11There's a parole officer that knows the

1:03:14details, is in contact with them.

1:03:16There's lie detectors test that they are

1:03:17required um to have. Then what Mountain

1:03:22View goes through and what we will go

1:03:23through as well if we do entertain that

1:03:26is we get a request for information that

1:03:28gives the entire history of what they of

1:03:30everything. And then we get that after

1:03:34the interview and we check and see how

1:03:36honest they were with us. So, do we

1:03:40think there's people that have committed

1:03:43gross sins in the past that have paid

1:03:45their price to society that should have

1:03:48an opportunity to uh get reintegrated in

1:03:52society? In our minds, they've already

1:03:55proven it. If they've had a job, they've

1:03:56been involved in a church, any church,

1:03:59any Christian church that wants to

1:04:00participate with Safety Net. And that uh

1:04:04and we believe in the power of the

1:04:05gospel. We believe in the power that uh

1:04:08uh people do people can change. Do does

1:04:12everybody do that? No. We'll just do our

1:04:14best to make sure that we don't put our

1:04:16ministry at risk.

1:04:19>> Mr. Chair, I'd like to take the

1:04:21opportunity to remind the coun or the

1:04:23commission that this is a land use for

1:04:25co-housing and the operations of a

1:04:28co-ousing similar to a multifamily you

1:04:31might see is not the purview of the

1:04:34commission. So, I just would like to

1:04:35remind everybody

1:04:41>> I I don't mind the questions. So,

1:04:43[laughter]

1:04:46>> Mr. Chair,

1:04:47>> uh, Commissioner Moore,

1:04:48>> um, I got a couple of questions. I'll

1:04:50start with some that's kind of tagged on

1:04:52to some of the previous questions. So,

1:04:56the difference between recovery

1:04:58residents and I think I asked this exact

1:04:59same question last time. The difference

1:05:01between recovery recovery residents and

1:05:04this is for staff and co-housing is

1:05:07really determined by that shared what is

1:05:12it? It's the living together with staff

1:05:14as a single housekeeping unit. So if you

1:05:17have one person requiring supervision,

1:05:19you're still falling in that co-housing

1:05:21because it's not a shared under

1:05:24supervision for the single housekeeping

1:05:27unit. But if you have say two people

1:05:30that starts to kind of encroach into

1:05:32that recovery residence per unit, so per

1:05:36one of these dorms, more than one person

1:05:39would start to qualify as recovery

1:05:41residence. Is that kind of the the line

1:05:44between this gray area?

1:05:48>> Mr. Chair and commissioners, so the

1:05:49definition for code housing is on the

1:05:51screen right now. Um and it's talking

1:05:53about a residential building with four

1:05:55or more individual bedrooms. Um each

1:05:59bedroom is rented individually

1:06:01and uh residents are required to sign at

1:06:04least a 28 day lease. Um they have some

1:06:07shared facilities in there or you know

1:06:10potentially shared facilities but that's

1:06:11not required. Um and it's again along

1:06:16the lines of a single occupancy room.

1:06:20Recovery residence is a dwelling unit

1:06:22where people are living together with

1:06:24staff as a single housekeeping unit that

1:06:27provides care, supervision, and

1:06:29treatment for the exclusive use of

1:06:31persons requiring medical, correctional,

1:06:33or other mandated supervision or or a

1:06:36protective environment to avoid past or

1:06:38likely future violence.

1:06:40This is also talking about um Fair

1:06:42Housing Act regulations.

1:06:46>> Got it. So, so really the distinction is

1:06:48when you have multiple people living in

1:06:50the same dwelling unit,

1:06:53that's when this starts to trigger.

1:06:56But if you have one person living in one

1:06:59of these dwelling units where it's not a

1:07:02whole supervised unit, you're still in

1:07:05co-ousing.

1:07:07>> Mr. Chair and commissioners, yeah, I

1:07:09think the the key term is the exclusive

1:07:11use of persons requiring medical,

1:07:13correctional, or other mandated

1:07:15supervision. Okay, understood. Um, thank

1:07:18you for that. So, right now the

1:07:21definition or the use that's in front of

1:07:23us right now is co-housing.

1:07:25Any other use that would fall into

1:07:27recovery residence, that's also a

1:07:29conditional use permit for this for R2

1:07:32for the R2 zone. I think based on the

1:07:35table of allowed uses that I'm seeing,

1:07:37that's that would be a conditional use

1:07:40permit later if that does encroach on

1:07:42that use. Is that correct?

1:07:48One moment.

1:08:05>> If if I may some say something in the

1:08:07middle in the interim, please go ahead.

1:08:10>> Um, we aren't recovery. we we can't deal

1:08:13with those requiring mandatory. What I

1:08:16think is confusing people is that we

1:08:18have a mentor, but that's a senior

1:08:22citizen who's gone through life

1:08:23experiences and is helping those that

1:08:26may not have had parental, you know,

1:08:29it's helping people. It isn't it isn't

1:08:32because it's mandatory supervision. We

1:08:34we we

1:08:36uh we can't deal with that.

1:08:38>> Understood.

1:08:39Mr. Mr. Chair and Commissioner Moore, I

1:08:41wanted to double check to make sure that

1:08:42I had the right zone and was giving you

1:08:44the correct information. Um, but yes, a

1:08:46recovery residence is a conditional use

1:08:48permit in the R2 zone. So, if there was

1:08:51any um

1:08:53thought of, you know, changing the use

1:08:54or um moving from a co-ousing to a

1:08:58residential or recovery residence,

1:09:00they'd have to come back for a separate

1:09:01conditional use permit and we could look

1:09:02at at that point in time.

1:09:04>> Understood. And then so if the use you

1:09:07say you had a code complaint a code

1:09:09compliance complaint

1:09:12um and figured out that it's more

1:09:15closely resembling a recovery residence

1:09:18that would also be a conditional use

1:09:19permit. They would have to come back in

1:09:21order to to operate in that manner.

1:09:23Correct.

1:09:24>> Mr. Chair and commissioners that's

1:09:25correct.

1:09:25>> Okay.

1:09:27Um just a couple of additional questions

1:09:29mostly on the site plan at this point.

1:09:31um or not the site plan but the the

1:09:33chair parking and stuff like that. Um so

1:09:37for for the actual you know some of our

1:09:40conditions of approval and then some of

1:09:42the um

1:09:45the shared parking agreements and things

1:09:47like that. I think we had some comments

1:09:48about traffic comments about parking

1:09:51overflow and then um I do see a comment

1:09:54in here from VRT. So I'll start with the

1:09:57parking overflow. Uh, one of the

1:10:00conditions of approval is a shared

1:10:01parking agreement with the church. And I

1:10:03see in the Google image or the Google

1:10:06maps image that's on our packet that we

1:10:08are taking out some parking or some

1:10:11existing parking. I think probably for

1:10:12the church. Does the combination of this

1:10:16co-ousing use as proposed plus the

1:10:19church equal still a compliant parking

1:10:21situation?

1:10:22>> Uh, Mr. Chair and commissioners. So,

1:10:24there has been um a an administrative

1:10:28approval associated with the church to

1:10:31expand the parking and change the

1:10:32parking layout that they have right now.

1:10:34Um so, what you see on Google Maps right

1:10:36now would be removed and then replaced

1:10:39with the um parking layout that's shown

1:10:42in the site plan. Um and so that would

1:10:45have 104 spaces on the um northern side

1:10:50of the property and then additional

1:10:52spaces um for the church and all of that

1:10:55meets the minimum require well above the

1:10:58minimum requirements of the zoning code.

1:11:00>> Okay, perfect. And then so for parking

1:11:04that makes sense that all meets current

1:11:06code exceeds current code. Um access was

1:11:09another one. I see there's an access to

1:11:12the main road and then there's an access

1:11:14also to settlers. Is there also an

1:11:17access agreement through the church

1:11:20property on to settlers so that we have

1:11:22we can kind of disperse some of the

1:11:23traffic and you don't have everybody

1:11:24going across just the one exit.

1:11:27>> Mr. Chair and commissioners, yeah, that

1:11:28would be part of the shared parking

1:11:30would be shared parking and access.

1:11:32>> Okay, great.

1:11:34And then just on top on the VRT, uh

1:11:37there's a comment about a bus stop like

1:11:39right there, uh right on the corner of

1:11:42of the property on the frontage. Um but

1:11:46the condition of approval is kind of to

1:11:48work with VRT. Does this will they be

1:11:51required to put a bus stop there or is

1:11:54this just um

1:11:57kind of a just work with them and if

1:11:59they need it? Can we require it?

1:12:01>> Mr. Chair, commissioners. Um so BRT has

1:12:05identified that corner as um a location

1:12:07for a bus stop with work with them was

1:12:10more of a condition about not having the

1:12:12exact specs of what kind of bus stop uh

1:12:15they're wanting to see there and um so

1:12:18just leaving that a little bit more open

1:12:20to allow the applicant and BRT to come

1:12:23to an agreement on what's most

1:12:24appropriate in that location.

1:12:26>> Gotcha. Understood. Awesome. And then um

1:12:30I forgot one more question about the

1:12:32use. So for the I think there were a

1:12:34couple comments about the motor vehicle

1:12:35use about the repair shop and I think

1:12:37noise and things like that. I saw the

1:12:40condition to require it just for just

1:12:43for residents. Um but other than that in

1:12:46the zone because this use is so small

1:12:49I'm assuming that it doesn't that it's

1:12:51just an accessory to the main use. It's

1:12:53not like a whole new use that would be

1:12:55in the zone.

1:12:56>> Sharing commissioners that's correct.

1:12:58Um, so it's essentially a two bay garage

1:13:02um that would be able to be used by

1:13:04residents for minor vehicle repairs on

1:13:06the site. And that commission or that

1:13:08condition would just be limiting the

1:13:10usage to those who are actively living

1:13:13on site with the program and uh not

1:13:16allowing any commercial use to take

1:13:18place on there to keep that accessory.

1:13:20>> Awesome. Well, that's all I have for

1:13:22now.

1:13:23>> All right. Thank you, Commissioner

1:13:24Moore.

1:13:24>> Mr. Chair,

1:13:25>> Mr. Torres,

1:13:26>> can I ask a followup to one of

1:13:27Commissioner Moore's questions? No.

1:13:28>> Okay, then I won't. Um, my question is

1:13:31for staff. So, Commissioner Moore

1:13:33mentioned that if there were concerns

1:13:35through a code enforcement complaint of

1:13:37of it bleeding into the recovery

1:13:39resident's use, it would trigger a

1:13:41conditional use permit. But what is that

1:13:43process? Just so the public here

1:13:45understands what would happen in that

1:13:46situation if that were to happen. I just

1:13:49to kind of assuage some of these fears.

1:13:51>> Mr. Chair and commissioners. So if there

1:13:53was um a recovery residence proposed on

1:13:57the site, the applicant would have to

1:13:58come back um again for conditional use

1:14:00permit that would require um updated

1:14:04plans. Uh it would require a

1:14:06neighborhood meeting, require noticing,

1:14:09require another uh hearing and a

1:14:11different set of conditions at that

1:14:13point in time.

1:14:14Just to follow up on that. So in a

1:14:16hypothetical situation where um all the

1:14:20residents are residents who would meet

1:14:21that criteria, their approval is based

1:14:24on what you know it being co-housing but

1:14:26it actually has turned it has evolved

1:14:28into a recovery residence. Somebody

1:14:32submits a code complaint. It's

1:14:33investigated it. We find that the city

1:14:35finds that it is operating as a um

1:14:39recovery residence. Would the applicant

1:14:42then be told they have to come before

1:14:44the commission for a hearing? Would they

1:14:46be denied their certificate? Would their

1:14:48cert certificate of occupancy be

1:14:49revoked? What's kind of the process

1:14:51there? That's that's what I was trying

1:14:52to clarify.

1:14:53>> U Mr. Chair and commissioners. So, um,

1:14:57again, they'd have to come back for a

1:14:59new permit at that point in time, but if

1:15:02there was a code compliance case that

1:15:03was open, um, essentially what we do for

1:15:06any code compliance case is to work with

1:15:08the property owner and any residents,

1:15:11um, to ensure that the terms of their

1:15:14conditional use are being met currently.

1:15:17Um, and so that would mean they would

1:15:19either have to revert back to just

1:15:21purely a co-housing use um, following

1:15:24all of those conditions or they'd have

1:15:26to come back for a new conditional use

1:15:27permit.

1:15:31>> We we would agree to a stipulation that

1:15:34uh, we wouldn't be a recovery and it

1:15:36would violate whatever you give us. I

1:15:38mean, we aren't focused on that. We

1:15:40don't want that.

1:15:42Okay.

1:15:43>> Thank you.

1:15:45>> Sure.

1:15:47Uh, Commissioner Stfons.

1:15:50>> Okay. You look like you're deep in

1:15:51thought, like you say something.

1:15:53>> I just I hear your voice over there

1:15:54somewhere. Go ahead.

1:15:56>> Okay. Um, switch somewhat of a subject

1:15:59here. Um, just to clarify, um, and this

1:16:01is for staff. um if they uh because it's

1:16:07this is a cup for co-housing and they

1:16:09would do any commercial um let's say the

1:16:13coffee shop became a a commercialized

1:16:16um business would what would need to

1:16:19change in respect to any of the

1:16:21co-ousing or the zoning?

1:16:24So, chair and commissioners. Um, so a it

1:16:27would be classified as a neighborhood

1:16:29cafe. Um, and that is an allowed use in

1:16:32the R2 zone. It does require an

1:16:34additional uh administrative zoning

1:16:36certificate approval. Um, and that has

1:16:39you specific standards that do things

1:16:40like limit the size, limit the outdoor

1:16:43space, um, and limit the hours of

1:16:46operation.

1:16:48>> Cool. Thanks. That was my only question

1:16:51because everyone else asked all of them.

1:16:53[laughter]

1:16:55Okay,

1:16:55>> Mr. Jerk.

1:16:56>> Mr. Schaefer,

1:16:57>> I'll jump in on that same line. Um,

1:17:00yeah. So, Jesse, let's talk just a

1:17:02little bit about process if we could.

1:17:04Um, so you mentioned the coffee shop

1:17:06used as another administrative

1:17:09approval. That's in addition to this

1:17:11hearing tonight. So, that's a staff

1:17:12level. There's no hearing associated

1:17:14with that. No public hearing associated

1:17:15with that review of the coffee shop use.

1:17:18>> Mr. Chair and Commissioner, so that's

1:17:20correct. It is an administrative

1:17:21approval. um subject to an appeal um

1:17:25that would not go before a hearing body.

1:17:27>> Okay, perfect. And then assuming

1:17:30this uh project moves forward, next step

1:17:32in the process for the applicant would

1:17:35be a design review, submittal uh back to

1:17:38the city again for another public

1:17:39hearing. and that the content of that

1:17:41hearing is review building design in

1:17:45detail, landscaping design in detail,

1:17:48sort of that that more granular level of

1:17:51design that we generally get into at

1:17:53this hearing. Is that correct?

1:17:54>> Uh Mr. Chair and commissioners, so this

1:17:56does have a reason attached which this

1:17:58body voted on back in January.

1:18:00>> So the reszone would have to go to city

1:18:02council first uh for an approval. then

1:18:05this could come back and go through the

1:18:08hearing level design review process like

1:18:09you stated.

1:18:10>> Okay, very good. Um, since we're on this

1:18:12on the topic, can you pull up a site

1:18:14plan for us, please?

1:18:27>> So, the it's the bottom image is our

1:18:30current design, correct?

1:18:33>> Uh, m commissioners. Yes. The top image

1:18:36is the um initial proposal. The bottom

1:18:38image is the proposal that has the

1:18:41modifications with the men's and women's

1:18:42separate dorms.

1:18:43>> Gotcha. Okay. And then the accessory

1:18:45building there is in the middle between

1:18:46the two dormatory buildings. Okay. Um I

1:18:50noticed that the what's what's our

1:18:52setback in the R2 zone? I noticed that

1:18:54the shop

1:18:56uh on that north property line, the shop

1:18:58is only about 5t u from the property

1:19:00line. Is that the setback in the R2?

1:19:03>> Mr. Chair and commissioner. So the side

1:19:04setbacks in R2 are 5 ft. Um also subject

1:19:08to neighborhood transition standards. So

1:19:11the taller buildings which would be the

1:19:13two dorms are three stories. Those are

1:19:16subject to those transition standards

1:19:18and are set back further um from that

1:19:21property line.

1:19:22>> Okay. Yeah. If I if I'm looking at the

1:19:24right that's the old one. Sorry. I

1:19:27believe the dormatory buildings and the

1:19:28accessory building are more like 10 or

1:19:3012 feet from the property line.

1:19:33Uh, Mr. Chair and Commissioner, so the

1:19:35women's dorm, I believe, is 12 feet. I

1:19:38think the accessory building is 10 and

1:19:41the men's dorm is 11 off the top of my

1:19:43head.

1:19:43>> Okay. And that's all per code.

1:19:46>> Correct.

1:19:46>> Great. Okay. Uh, building heights. Um, I

1:19:50know we have elevations in our packet. I

1:19:52believe the shop is the only Well, the

1:19:54shop and the coffee shop are single

1:19:55story.

1:19:57Um, the dormatory buildings are, I

1:19:59believe, are 35 ft in height. Is that

1:20:01correct? approximately. Yes.

1:20:03>> Okay. And what's allowed in the R2 zone?

1:20:06>> Uh, Mr. Chair and Commissioners, the R2

1:20:08zone can go up to 45 ft or four stories.

1:20:10>> Okay. So, these buildings are 10 give or

1:20:12take 10 ft below the allowed maximum

1:20:15within the R2 zone.

1:20:17>> Correct.

1:20:17>> Okay. Very good.

1:20:19Um, Boisey Fire, I sorry, the packet's

1:20:23quite large. Um, I I missed maybe any

1:20:25comments from Boyisey Fire. Um, did they

1:20:28have any issues with this new proposed

1:20:30layout? Uh Mr. Chair and commissioners,

1:20:33no. Um we didn't get any updated

1:20:35comments from Boise Fire. We did send

1:20:36this out. Um generally uh when you're

1:20:40looking at any multi-story buildings,

1:20:42you're ensuring that aerial access can

1:20:44be met at 35 ft that allows for aerial

1:20:48access and then having the drive aisles

1:20:50adjacent um makes it close enough that

1:20:53fire should be able to service this

1:20:55properly.

1:20:56>> Okay, very good. And it's not going to

1:20:57be required to be fire sprinkled then or

1:20:58is it?

1:21:01Um I stumped you.

1:21:02>> Yeah, Mr. Chair and commissioners. So uh

1:21:05again the design review application will

1:21:08have another review from Boise Fire as

1:21:10any building permits. Uh so any fire

1:21:13requirements would be met at that time.

1:21:15>> Okay. Very good. And Jesse, I don't know

1:21:17if you have it handy. Um I'd love to get

1:21:21a

1:21:22a closer view of like the unit layout if

1:21:26we could.

1:22:06>> [snorts]

1:22:18>> Perfect. Okay. Thanks. I just want to

1:22:19make sure

1:22:22we're talking apples to apples here. So

1:22:27the layout here is essentially four

1:22:31single rooms that are around the

1:22:34perimeter of a shared

1:22:37living slashcooking space. Is that a

1:22:40generally safe review of how these are

1:22:42laid out?

1:22:43>> That's correct.

1:22:44>> And then occupancy is intended to be one

1:22:46individual per room.

1:22:50>> Yes,

1:22:50>> that's the intention. Okay, great.

1:22:53And we separated. So there's a shower

1:22:55room separate from a bathroom. So

1:22:57>> Gotcha. Okay.

1:22:58>> There's separation.

1:22:59>> Gotcha.

1:23:00>> So Jesse, I'm just curious what when I

1:23:02see this, I think of like we've seen um

1:23:06like student housing projects that have

1:23:08been proposed around like near Boyise

1:23:10State, for example, that are very

1:23:13similar layouts. Are those typically

1:23:16reviewed as co-housing projects as well?

1:23:18Because it's almost exactly the same

1:23:20sort of layout. It's a a it's four rooms

1:23:22around a shared living space. Is that a

1:23:25fair comparison?

1:23:26>> Yeah, that's a that's something that we

1:23:28do see for dorm style co-housing.

1:23:31>> Okay, very good. Okay.

1:23:34>> Okay, I think I'm good for questions

1:23:35right now.

1:23:39>> Okay, thank you, Commissioner Schaefer.

1:23:41Other questions?

1:23:49Um,

1:23:51[laughter]

1:23:52there might be a few more.

1:23:53>> I got one more.

1:23:54>> Commissioner more.

1:23:55>> Go ahead.

1:23:56>> Sorry. Uh, Jesse, fencing. I didn't see

1:23:59any fencing proposed. I mentioned the

1:24:02north property line, which you mentioned

1:24:03was the side setback. I was looking

1:24:05primarily at that property line. Is

1:24:06there any fencing proposed in the

1:24:08application right now or is that

1:24:09something you guys are going to review

1:24:12with uh the design reviews? I know on

1:24:14the back half there's a chain link

1:24:16presently.

1:24:18>> Uh we really haven't discussed fencing.

1:24:20We thought we'd do that in design

1:24:21review.

1:24:22>> Okay. All right. So there's exist

1:24:24there's chain link existing along the

1:24:27west side.

1:24:28>> Yes. West half. Yeah.

1:24:29>> Yeah. Okay. Nothing on the north

1:24:31currently.

1:24:32>> No.

1:24:32>> Okay. Very good.

1:24:34>> Thank you.

1:24:35>> There's a street,

1:24:40>> Mr. Chair.

1:24:41>> Commissioner. So, Jesse, a quick

1:24:42clarification about design review. Um,

1:24:46so for design review, they'll be looking

1:24:48at things like the window locations and

1:24:52sizes, stuff like that. They're they're

1:24:53looking at all of that stuff as well in

1:24:56design.

1:24:57>> Uh, Mr. training commissioners. Yes. The

1:24:59design review uh application will

1:25:02consider materials, building design, um

1:25:06site layout, landscaping,

1:25:08um making sure that um it meets the

1:25:12design standard of code such as having

1:25:14an active street frontage, those types

1:25:16of things.

1:25:17>> Awesome. Thank you,

1:25:26>> Mr. Chair. Commissioner Schaefer.

1:25:28>> Sorry, one more. Jesse, on the the room

1:25:30or the uh dormatory layout, uh is there

1:25:35anything at code that dictates number of

1:25:38like the occupancy

1:25:40of one of the dormatory units?

1:25:43>> Mr. Chair and commissioners, um the

1:25:47development code does talk about a

1:25:49dwelling unit and that would be five

1:25:51unrelated individuals as the maximum.

1:25:54Um, so there's four bedrooms here. I

1:25:56would assume it probably wouldn't go

1:25:57over four, but

1:25:58>> Yeah. But five, five would be the

1:25:59absolute max per code.

1:26:01>> Correct.

1:26:01>> Okay. Very good. Okay.

1:26:11>> All right. Any other questions?

1:26:16All right. I got a couple. Um, Jesse,

1:26:18can you pull up the definition of

1:26:20recovery housing for me, please?

1:26:30Okay. So,

1:26:33it seems like the crux of a lot of this

1:26:35comes down to the definition of what's

1:26:37in front of us. Co-housing versus

1:26:40recovery housing. It definitely seems as

1:26:44though from the public testimony or the

1:26:47written letters that we receive that

1:26:50part of this definition

1:26:53um is of top of mind and of concern, but

1:26:57it's not the part that's highlighted.

1:27:00It's the next few words after the the

1:27:03bold, I should say. So, or a protective

1:27:07environment to avoid past or likely

1:27:10future violence. That was

1:27:13clearly palpable within the letters uh

1:27:18that we received in our packet. So, I'd

1:27:21like to get some perspective from staff

1:27:25on that part of this particular

1:27:28definition of housing. I mean, I it

1:27:31sounds as Let me stop. I don't want to

1:27:33bait you or put any words in your mouth,

1:27:35so need to stop with that. What are your

1:27:38thoughts on on on that part of this

1:27:40definition?

1:27:42>> Mr. Chair and commissioners, um you

1:27:45know, I think that the applicant has

1:27:46spoken to this quite a lot today already

1:27:49and talked about how this is not a

1:27:51prison. This is not um a a use that is

1:27:55intended for purely individuals under

1:27:59supervision for people who have severe

1:28:02um mental health issues. Um this is

1:28:04intended for people who are you know

1:28:07able to function in society however may

1:28:11need um a little bit of help, a little

1:28:14supportive services somewhere that um

1:28:17they can you know learn how to be an

1:28:20adult. um if they're, you know, aging

1:28:23out of the foster system. So, I think

1:28:26that there's a huge difference between

1:28:30an incarceration residence, someone who

1:28:32needs to be in a in a recovery

1:28:34residence, and what that entails um with

1:28:38the supervision and all the things that

1:28:39that goes along with versus co-housing

1:28:42where people are living individually,

1:28:44rented rooms and um having to part of

1:28:48living on this property would to be um

1:28:52going along with a privately ly operated

1:28:55program as part of the conditions to

1:28:57live there.

1:29:00>> Do you have anything to add on that? No,

1:29:01you don't have to.

1:29:02>> We would stipulate to the entire We're

1:29:04not a recipulate to the entire um we're

1:29:07not a recovery site and we stipulate to

1:29:09the entire language.

1:29:13>> Okay. And I and I guess that's where I'm

1:29:15I'm I mean I'm just having trouble

1:29:17because

1:29:18in our own definition here I it's clear

1:29:22to me recovery exclusive use of persons

1:29:25requiring medical correctional uh andor

1:29:28medicated mandated excuse me supervision

1:29:31recovery the next part of it avoid past

1:29:34or likely future violence. And I know

1:29:37that we've talked about this about who

1:29:39could come in and and so forth. So I

1:29:41think I'm just trying to understand but

1:29:43in front of us is not this because in

1:29:46front of us is the definition of

1:29:48co-housing as it's being described and

1:29:50as it's so that there in lies our

1:29:53challenge but in our own staff report

1:29:59the first sentence of criteria number

1:30:01two will serve as a variety of

1:30:03vulnerable community members who are in

1:30:05need of affordable housing life school

1:30:06training and general guidance and

1:30:08accountability and that accountability

1:30:11word

1:30:14seems to go with this. So, I'm trying

1:30:16wrestling with this a little bit. So,

1:30:18but again, I have to remind myself and

1:30:21and and all of us up here that this is

1:30:23this is not the definition that we're

1:30:25dealing with.

1:30:25>> We could stick the word educational

1:30:27accountability

1:30:28>> one more time.

1:30:29>> We could we could stipulate the term

1:30:31educational accountability.

1:30:33>> Okay, fair enough. I appreciate the

1:30:34input.

1:30:52Mr. Chair,

1:30:53>> Mr. more.

1:30:54>> I think, you know, looking further into

1:30:56that condition, I wonder if the kind of

1:31:01the next the next sentence might help to

1:31:04clarify that. Um, where it's talking

1:31:07about educational and career

1:31:09opportunities. Maybe staff intended for

1:31:13kind of the next sentence to kind of

1:31:15clarify that it was accountability for

1:31:17educational and career opportunities.

1:31:20Trying to word it the question.

1:31:23Mr. Chair and commissioners. Um, so

1:31:26again, just to liken this to a dorm use,

1:31:30like a a BSU dorm,

1:31:33there are RAS that live there, and they

1:31:36provide some kind of guidance to the

1:31:38people in in that program into that

1:31:40school. Uh, there are rules that you

1:31:42have to abide by to live in a dorm. And

1:31:46there's an educational component and

1:31:47some accountability that's involved in

1:31:49that for young people who are learning

1:31:52life skills.

1:31:54And from everything that the applicant

1:31:56has talked about with our program, this

1:31:58seems a very similar parallel.

1:32:04Jesse question and commissioner, do you

1:32:07have a follow-up? Sorry. Okay. So I mean

1:32:10to make sure to understand we have um

1:32:14so we have when it comes to the the sex

1:32:16offender discussion.

1:32:18So we have state law that says that

1:32:21there's a specific number within a

1:32:24definition of dwelling units and all of

1:32:26that sort of thing. And then we have our

1:32:28code that also has some seems like the

1:32:33definitions are a little bit different,

1:32:34but correct me if I'm wrong, it's state

1:32:36law that

1:32:40governs this decision more so than our

1:32:42own code. Is that not correct,

1:32:46>> Mr. Chair and commissioners? Yes. So

1:32:48again, um anyone who's living on this

1:32:51property or any other property, any

1:32:53other private housing um configuration

1:32:57has to follow state law according to who

1:32:59can live where on any type of

1:33:01supervision um any kind of sex offense.

1:33:05Um that that's just a general

1:33:08requirement. There are uh provisions in

1:33:10that statute that talk about cities

1:33:12having additional ordinances. Boise does

1:33:15not have one.

1:33:19And and so your your take is that well I

1:33:23think we've got your your take on this

1:33:25issue it sounds

1:33:27um

1:33:30okay

1:33:33any other questions

1:33:34>> Mr. Chair, I have a follow-up to what

1:33:35you please go ahead.

1:33:37>> Staff, so [clears throat]

1:33:39just to clarify, we can't really

1:33:40consider the number of halfway houses,

1:33:43recovery residences, or similar

1:33:45properties in the immediate area when

1:33:48making this land use decision. Is that a

1:33:49fair uh statement,

1:33:52>> Mr. Chair and commissioners? And as as

1:33:54long as any of these other kinds of

1:33:57houses are operating under state law,

1:34:01um, and this would be operating under

1:34:02state law, we do not have anything in

1:34:04our zoning code that goes above and

1:34:05beyond that.

1:34:10>> Mr. Chair,

1:34:11>> Mr. Seoff,

1:34:12>> follow up on that. Um there were several

1:34:14comments about cumulative impacts and um

1:34:18does our modern zoning code have a

1:34:21section that requires us to look at

1:34:24cumulative impacts?

1:34:27>> Uh Commissioner Sehawk, can you

1:34:29elaborate on what you mean by community?

1:34:31um to Commissioner Torres's comment on

1:34:35having nearby existing homes um halfway

1:34:41homes or special homes. Um

1:34:46the modern zoning code does not speak to

1:34:50when an application comes before

1:34:53planning and zoning commission.

1:34:55We are not looking at cumulative impacts

1:34:59from surrounding areas like we're not

1:35:02considering

1:35:04in this particular case we're not

1:35:06considering

1:35:08the other adjacent or nearby halfway

1:35:13homes. Does that make sense? Uh Mr.

1:35:16Chair and Commissioner, I do think I

1:35:17understand what you're saying. Um but no

1:35:20again like we don't within our zoning

1:35:22code regulate who can live in what

1:35:26private entity private housing

1:35:28development above and beyond what state

1:35:30code allows nor do we look at proximity

1:35:34um again above and beyond what state

1:35:36code requires. Okay. So I think I'm

1:35:38going to sorry I'm thinking of it from

1:35:40an environmental uh perspective since

1:35:42that's what I do in my day job. Um for

1:35:46environmental we oftent times look at

1:35:49cumulative effects

1:35:52of a project. So we look at the

1:35:54surrounding you know within a certain

1:35:56area and we consider actions activities

1:36:00within that certain area in our

1:36:03cumulative effects um analysis. And so

1:36:06what I'm trying to get at is the modern

1:36:09zoning code doesn't require

1:36:14us to evaluate

1:36:17um

1:36:20existing actions whether that's halfway

1:36:22homes or anything else within a certain

1:36:24parameter of the proposed application.

1:36:27Does that make sense?

1:36:28>> Uh Mr. Chair and commissioners, uh

1:36:30that's correct. Uh we do look at things

1:36:32like density um like access to

1:36:35transportation. We look at things like

1:36:37access to commercial areas and I think

1:36:40in our January hearing we did cover a

1:36:42lot of that and how this is on a transit

1:36:44line. This is near an activity center.

1:36:47This has a lot of commercial and

1:36:48employment opportunities nearby and so

1:36:51having um a residential project of this

1:36:55scale makes sense in this area. Okay.

1:36:59Thank you,

1:36:59>> Mr. Chair. I have a followup on

1:37:01Commissioner Sea's question. I have a

1:37:03lot of follow-up questions today.

1:37:04>> Um, so Commissioner Sehouse said the

1:37:07monzoning code does not require us to

1:37:09consider these things. Does it allow us

1:37:11to consider those things?

1:37:15>> Mr. chair and commissioners. Uh I think

1:37:18what in discussing what I just said

1:37:20about when we are looking at land use

1:37:22applications, we're looking at density,

1:37:24we're looking at traffic impacts, we're

1:37:26looking at proximity to services, and um

1:37:29about how many people could reasonably

1:37:33live in this area. And again, I think we

1:37:36discussed that a lot in January um with

1:37:39all of the existing services um having

1:37:42all the service providers and commenting

1:37:44agencies not have um any concerns with

1:37:48this use.

1:37:50>> Thank you, Jesse. I know we keep asking

1:37:52the same question in multiple different

1:37:54ways. Um, and you keep giving the same

1:37:56answer, but I just, you know, based on

1:37:58the written testimony we received and

1:38:00anticipating the verbal testimony we're

1:38:02going to receive, I'm just trying to

1:38:03think of all the questions and concerns

1:38:05that the public may have about it. Thank

1:38:07you.

1:38:11>> Okay. So, I'm going to ask a question

1:38:13that's going to take a minute to

1:38:14potentially find an answer to. So, if we

1:38:17need to break, we can do that. Here's my

1:38:19question. based on state law and based

1:38:23on the configuration of the proposed

1:38:27project. I'd love to know what is the

1:38:31maximum number of registered sex

1:38:33offenders possible by applying state law

1:38:37which is paramount

1:38:39to the application. And in the meantime,

1:38:42if I if we can find something that gives

1:38:44us some sort of guidance, can you just

1:38:47remind me remind us of your general um

1:38:52thoughts on

1:38:55the potential acceptance of of those who

1:38:58might come from and be on such a list.

1:39:00You you mentioned it earlier, but I want

1:39:02just want to give you another

1:39:03opportunity.

1:39:04>> We we actually have the application

1:39:06flowchart.

1:39:07>> Yeah.

1:39:07>> Um [clears throat] I don't know if we

1:39:09can get that up or not.

1:39:20So the green is for educational

1:39:23and we're not overly particular there.

1:39:27Um

1:39:28as long as they're not disruptive. So

1:39:31it's open to the public if you would in

1:39:34the church in the church building. So it

1:39:36flows into the church building. So

1:39:38that's not the dorm.

1:39:40>> Okay.

1:39:42So the blue section is an application

1:39:46for the dorm. And so down the left

1:39:49column of the blue is if everything is

1:39:51answered yes, then that's the approval

1:39:54process.

1:39:56If if there's an issue and they're under

1:40:00community supervision,

1:40:02>> then we go into the yellow and the reds.

1:40:05And then when you get into the yellow,

1:40:08that's what they do under if someone's

1:40:10under community supervision or has a

1:40:13history of violence or medical um mental

1:40:16issues or anything like that. Anything

1:40:18we think they're not going to be a good

1:40:20fit in a dorm or going to create problem

1:40:21with the dorm, then we have this process

1:40:24that we go through and um

1:40:29um

1:40:30we think it's pretty robust.

1:40:32>> Okay.

1:40:34Okay, I appreciate you explaining this.

1:40:36This a lot going on here. Uh, but this

1:40:39is this has been very helpful. Um,

1:40:45I I will pull my question, Crystal.

1:40:50I don't need an answer to that question.

1:40:53Um, I do appreciate you explaining this.

1:40:56So, this this is helpful. So when you go

1:40:58in again someone who wants to live here

1:41:00and is under this category of dorm in in

1:41:03that particular instance this third one

1:41:04down then we move over to the right side

1:41:08and then a a series of additional

1:41:10scrutiny yes is provided and got it.

1:41:13Okay that's very helpful. Thank you for

1:41:15that.

1:41:19Okay. Any other questions of the

1:41:21applicant

1:41:23or staff or security or the neighborhood

1:41:26association?

1:41:28We're good. One more. You want to think

1:41:31about it?

1:41:31>> No, I just want

1:41:34>> Okay, we can do that

1:41:35>> before we close.

1:41:36>> Fair.

1:41:38>> That is totally fair. Um, it's about

1:41:40that time anyway. So, let's take a quick

1:41:42quick fiveish and we'll come back and

1:41:44there's any other lightning in a bottle

1:41:46questions and we'll ask them.

1:41:47>> All right. Thank you.

1:41:54>> Okay. Are we just about back? Almost.

1:41:59What?

1:42:02>> Okay.

1:42:04We'll reconvene in about a minute or so.

1:43:01Oh, mate.

1:44:28Okay, I think we're about ready.

1:44:31All right.

1:44:33And I know that uh Commissioner Schaefer

1:44:36has a few more questions, but just to

1:44:38let him know, his beloved Seattle sea

1:44:40chickens are losing. So,

1:44:43>> Mr. Chair, I'm gonna need you to stop

1:44:45that.

1:44:47>> There's security protocol to have me

1:44:48removed, too. Right.

1:44:50>> Man, Mr. Schaefer, are you ready?

1:44:53>> You we expect this kind of hear from

1:44:54Rams fans.

1:44:56>> Fine,

1:44:57>> Mr. Chair.

1:44:59>> Okay. All right. Back to the discussion

1:45:00at hand. Uh thank you, Mr. Chair. Just a

1:45:03couple of quick questions to wrap up. I

1:45:05think my

1:45:08uh my questioning uh to the applicant,

1:45:10Mr. Neighbors, I I don't recall

1:45:14um in your plan in our packet. Is it do

1:45:18you guys have a curfew? Are you planning

1:45:19on a curfew for your residents?

1:45:23>> How are you handling that?

1:45:24>> There's been there's been a lot of

1:45:25discussion about that, but we we're

1:45:26going to have people working nights and

1:45:29um weekends and the good thing about

1:45:32that is they'll stagger the traffic, but

1:45:35no, these these guys aren't under a

1:45:37supervision. Right. Right. So, there's

1:45:39no no intended purp There's no intended.

1:45:41Okay.

1:45:41>> That's great. No problem. Thank you. Uh,

1:45:44and then Jesse,

1:45:47hi Jesse. Um, I just wanted to make sure

1:45:50we are for our conditions of approval.

1:45:55We're looking at page 542 in our packet,

1:45:59which I believe are the conditions

1:46:03from the original submitt of this

1:46:05application back in December. I just

1:46:06want to make sure I'm looking at the

1:46:07right thing. I didn't miss

1:46:10conditions with the resubmitt.

1:46:12Uh, Mr. Chair and commissioners, there

1:46:15are um on packet page

1:46:18um eight PDF page eight there are

1:46:22updated conditions.

1:46:23>> Oh, there are

1:46:25>> see that's why I asked the question.

1:46:29Okay.

1:46:32And then I believe when you were

1:46:33presenting Jesse, you you did pull up a

1:46:35slide with some discussion on

1:46:37conditions,

1:46:39some sort of specific items that you

1:46:41wanted there they are that you wanted us

1:46:43to consider in our deliberation.

1:46:52Mr. Caring, commissioners, the

1:46:54abbreviated list is on the screen uh but

1:46:57there are additional conditions in the

1:46:58packet too.

1:47:01Now, these are

1:47:04these are conditions you these are in

1:47:06the packet already. These are in the

1:47:08conditions already. These are just ones

1:47:09you wanted to highlight for discussion

1:47:11purposes.

1:47:11>> That's correct.

1:47:12>> Okay, great. Thank you.

1:47:16Thank you, Mr. Chair. Of course,

1:47:18Commissioner Stef.

1:47:19>> Yep. Couple questions here. Um, okay.

1:47:21For the applicant, so for this new

1:47:26nonprofit organization, sorry, I may get

1:47:28it wrong. Um,

1:47:34>> can you remind me of the name?

1:47:36>> Christian Safety Net Academy.

1:47:37>> Christian Safety Net Academy. It's

1:47:39501c3.

1:47:40>> Yes.

1:47:41>> Is it considered a faithbased

1:47:43organization or just human services?

1:47:45>> It's religious and educational. Yes.

1:47:48>> Okay. It is. Okay. And then I don't know

1:47:51who can answer this question, but do

1:47:53faith-based organizations have any um

1:47:58leniency with fair housing standards at

1:48:00all?

1:48:02Um [clears throat] so we've kind of

1:48:04checked into that and our attorney

1:48:07Jeffrey,

1:48:08what's his last name? Wortal.

1:48:10>> Yes. So anyway, we ran all this past him

1:48:13and so uh but if there's any law that

1:48:16we're not abiding by, then we'll adjust.

1:48:19But right now we we are to understand

1:48:20everything we have submitted is

1:48:22accordance to federal, state and city

1:48:24laws.

1:48:25>> Okay. Thank you. Okay. And then this

1:48:28question I think we said that there was

1:48:29an officer or somebody from law

1:48:31enforcement here.

1:48:43>> Good evening sir.

1:48:44>> Hello. Um, this is a question about do

1:48:47you know much about parole officers and

1:48:50what they

1:48:51>> um not too much but we can see

1:48:54>> take a crack and maybe we can find out.

1:48:56Um, are parole [clears throat] officers

1:48:59able to limit individuals that are on

1:49:02parole in the uh density of other

1:49:06paroleles that they're living with. Is

1:49:08that did I phrase that? Does that make

1:49:10sense? If I understand you, sir, you're

1:49:12you're asking if parole officers have

1:49:14the discretion to limit where their

1:49:16probationers or poleles live. Correct.

1:49:19Um, yes, they do have the ability to set

1:49:22restrictions and limit where their their

1:49:26parole or probationer reside.

1:49:29>> Okay, awesome. Thank you. Those are my

1:49:31questions.

1:49:32>> If I may on that uh flowchart,

1:49:36so when it kicks them over to the far

1:49:38right, all of a sudden that involves the

1:49:40parole officer, the probation, um the

1:49:43request for uh information, all the

1:49:45details come out. So,

1:49:48>> okay.

1:49:48>> And the parole officer does have that

1:49:50right to say no. Yes. That kind of

1:49:53stuff.

1:49:54>> Okay. All right.

1:49:56>> And commissioner, I was just told that I

1:49:58messed up. I forgot my name and uh

1:50:02address.

1:50:04My name is Corey Turner. I'm a

1:50:06lieutenant with the Boisee Police

1:50:07Department Community Outreach Division.

1:50:09And our address is 333 North Mark

1:50:11Stallplace.

1:50:13>> All right. Very good. Where'd you get

1:50:14this guy? Geez. Thank you for being

1:50:17here. Much appreciated.

1:50:19Yeah. Right.

1:50:21Uh, no. Very much appreciated. Uh,

1:50:23certainly. Okay. Any other final

1:50:26questions to the right, the left?

1:50:31Okay. I think at this point we'll pause

1:50:34and then we're going to open this up to

1:50:36public testimony.

1:50:38>> Okay. First and foremost, y'all have

1:50:40been doing great. Appreciate it. I know

1:50:42this is a tough one and can be and I

1:50:44know there's again there's going to be a

1:50:45lot of emotions and this is the time

1:50:47when I know that those can can come up.

1:50:49So, uh just to set the table real quick,

1:50:52here's what's going to happen. There's a

1:50:54fair amount of people on the sign up

1:50:55list. This is at least an hour and a

1:50:57half worth of folks if everybody takes

1:51:00their three minutes. And that doesn't

1:51:02include who anybody who is not signed

1:51:04up. It also does not include anybody who

1:51:06is online. So, here's the thing.

1:51:08Everybody will have their three minutes.

1:51:10Please state your name and your address

1:51:12right up front, and you'll have as much

1:51:14of the three minutes as you care. I'm

1:51:17going to try to queue up a handful of

1:51:19people at a time. So, if you hear your

1:51:20name uh and you're on deck, so to speak,

1:51:23please come up towards the front so we

1:51:25can kind of keep things rolling. We'll

1:51:27probably take a break at some point and

1:51:28then reconvene. If you've not signed up

1:51:31on this sheet and you wish to testify,

1:51:33don't worry. you will have your chance

1:51:35and we'll get to everybody who wants to.

1:51:37And if you are on this list and the

1:51:40points that you wanted to make have

1:51:42already been made, please don't feel

1:51:45obligated to come up and and spend that

1:51:48time. You can absolutely say all good.

1:51:51Going to go have some Halloween candy

1:51:53now and see you later kind of a thing.

1:51:54Okay. All right. But appreciate

1:51:56everybody's cooperation so far. All

1:51:59right. Let's get started. So, first up,

1:52:01uh, Jody Peter Jodie Peterson Stigers,

1:52:03followed by Maria, I think it's Barrett

1:52:06Riley, and then Jason,

1:52:10uh, and I have Jason and Michelle

1:52:11Downing, so I'll go with Jason first,

1:52:14then Michelle.

1:52:16I think you know the drill.

1:52:18>> I do. Jody Peterson Stigers, executive

1:52:22director, Interface Sanctuary Shelter

1:52:24Home, 4306 West State Street. And I'm

1:52:28here to clarify something that was

1:52:31incorrect in the application.

1:52:33Um, somehow the application stated that

1:52:36we um agreed to work with safety net

1:52:40program. It's on I'm not sure what page

1:52:43because I had to pull it off the

1:52:45website. Uh Jody Peterson, the CEO of

1:52:48Interfaith Sanctuary, believes that the

1:52:49safety net program would be valuable.

1:52:51Interfaith deals with those whom the

1:52:53canopy cannot help. Again, a referral

1:52:56partnership was obvious to both Safety

1:52:58Net and Interfaith. The Academy could

1:53:01refer those it cannot help or who do not

1:53:03abide by the academyy's rules to

1:53:05Interfaith Sanctuary. Safety net would

1:53:08pay a fee to Interfaith for those who

1:53:10are dismissed from the dorm units. This

1:53:13is completely untrue and inaccurate and

1:53:16not possible based on how we operate our

1:53:19weight list. Um, I did reach out to

1:53:22Steven Neighbors. I let him know. Um,

1:53:24this was brought to my attention by a

1:53:26volunteer who serves at our shelter home

1:53:29and care so much about our home and the

1:53:31neighborhood in which we live. And she

1:53:33was pretty stunned that we to agree to

1:53:35something like that. Um, and that's why

1:53:38I'm here tonight to put it on record

1:53:40that that would not happen. Um, but

1:53:43Steve did write to Jesse, here's the

1:53:45final PNZ submitt. The key change is a

1:53:47correction totally my fault of my

1:53:49conversation with Interface Sanctuary.

1:53:52They can't refer clients to they can

1:53:54refer clients to us but the academy

1:53:56cannot refer to them. When the safety

1:53:58net team was putting this together the

1:54:00false assumption was it was two ways. I

1:54:03should have caught that. I've already

1:54:05made copies for the commission. Can I

1:54:07bring copied? And from what I understand

1:54:09that it could not be changed in record.

1:54:12It's so important for us that our

1:54:14neighborhood understands that this

1:54:16conversation never happened. And so I

1:54:18want to go on record with that here

1:54:20tonight. And I thank you.

1:54:22>> Thanks for coming. Appreciate it. Um,

1:54:24I'm going to I made a little mistake.

1:54:26Come back to the list I just mentioned

1:54:28momentarily, but I need to get to a

1:54:29different list first. So, let me come

1:54:31back to this list. Uh, Jennifer Tessmer

1:54:34followed by Terry Bartlett.

1:54:38Do I have maybe online

1:54:42or are those names familiar?

1:54:45Okay.

1:54:48>> I'm going to guess you're not Jennifer.

1:54:50So,

1:54:50>> Mr. Chair, I do see Jennifer Tesmer

1:54:52online.

1:54:53>> Oh. Oh, great. Okay, perfect.

1:54:56Okay, Miss Tess, are you with us?

1:54:59>> I am. Can you hear me, sir?

1:55:01>> We can. Thank you so much. Appreciate

1:55:02you hanging in there. So, if you would

1:55:04start with your name and address for the

1:55:05record, and you'll have three minutes.

1:55:07>> Sure. My name is Jennifer Tessmer, and I

1:55:10appreciate um all of your time. I'm a

1:55:13nearby homeowner in Bay Hill Springs

1:55:15neighborhood and I'm also a member of

1:55:19Bay Hill Homeowners for Action and I

1:55:23appreciate um the statement that was

1:55:26just made that'll save me approximately

1:55:2940 seconds so I can go a little bit

1:55:32quicker here. Um my October 30th

1:55:36opposition was submitted late. Um, but I

1:55:42would ask that it uh be admitted into

1:55:46the record because it was um based on

1:55:50new information that was obtained,

1:55:52including the information that was just

1:55:54admitted onto the record. Um, Boisey

1:55:59City Code section 11-054.5

1:56:05allows written information that

1:56:07corresponds to oral testimony to be

1:56:08accepted at the hearing. So, I will

1:56:11identify both submissions that I

1:56:14submitted on October 30th and

1:56:18incorporate their principal points and

1:56:20ask that they be admitted and at a

1:56:23minimum um ask that the commission

1:56:27consider continuing the hearing and hold

1:56:30the record open. Um the new information

1:56:34[clears throat]

1:56:36creates a serious factual dispute. Um,

1:56:40we just heard one of the sources,

1:56:44Interfaith Sanctuary, providing a

1:56:46correction. Um,

1:56:49that disproves that it evered with

1:56:53safety net. Um Idaho Department of

1:56:56Correction has reportedly said that it

1:56:58would not support the project, that it

1:57:01only had one conversation with the

1:57:03applicant approximately a year ago. Uh

1:57:06that it didn't even know that it was

1:57:08listed. Um it's my understanding that

1:57:11Health and Welfare reportedly said that

1:57:13it was not involved in planning, that it

1:57:16would not support the proposal. Um Gem

1:57:20Friends reportedly said that it declined

1:57:22collaboration. Casey Family Program said

1:57:25that it is not endorsing the project,

1:57:28that it didn't know it was listed. Um,

1:57:31of course, this requires followup. Uh,

1:57:35and I don't know if these members are

1:57:37present tonight. You know, I'm

1:57:39[clears throat] hoping they are, but the

1:57:41bottom line is that these

1:57:42representations are absolutely material.

1:57:46The applicant relied on these

1:57:47organizations to establish the program's

1:57:50credibility, screening, referral

1:57:52network, and discharge plan. And staff

1:57:55relied on the applicant's operating

1:57:57representations

1:57:59in recommending approval. And the

1:58:02application specifically claimed that a

1:58:04dismissed resident could be placed, for

1:58:06example, at Interfaith

1:58:10or another shelter within 28 days um of

1:58:16being expensed. And Interfaith says no

1:58:18such arrangement exists. Well, uh

1:58:20condition number one doesn't cure this.

1:58:23Incorporates the applicant's narrative.

1:58:25It incorporates disputed and inaccurate

1:58:27arrangements. And if it doesn't, the

1:58:29operating promises staff relied upon are

1:58:32completely unenforcable.

1:58:34So, um,

1:58:37we've got some major issues. The

1:58:39applicant also says it's not a

1:58:42>> I need to pause you there. Three minutes

1:58:44of that. I apologize, but, um, certainly

1:58:46your your thoughts we're going to be

1:58:48considering and as as we have all the

1:58:50testimony that we're going to receive,

1:58:51but thank you for testifying. Uh, next

1:58:54up I need to get to is Terry Bartlett,

1:58:57followed by Lynn McDonald.

1:59:08>> My name is Terry Bartlett to 10649 North

1:59:11Sage Crest Place, Boise, Idaho. I'm the

1:59:13coowner of the two small office

1:59:15buildings just to the north, 50 ft from

1:59:17the proposed dorms. City Planner stated

1:59:19to us that this project could act a lot

1:59:21like the Young Men's Christian

1:59:23Association RSO model. What we

1:59:26understand is because the YMCA couldn't

1:59:28screen or care for these residents. YMCA

1:59:30buildings effectively became deacto

1:59:32unstaffed mental health awards in

1:59:35shelters. Front desk workers found

1:59:36themselves trying to manage severe

1:59:38psychotic episodes, overdoses, security

1:59:41crisis they were completely untrained to

1:59:43handle. Skyrocketing cost of security,

1:59:45building damage, liability, toll on the

1:59:48staff is precisely what forced the YMC

1:59:50boards to finally shut down their RSO

1:59:53operations. Safety security and safety

1:59:56language. This proposal does not address

1:59:58how the Christian Safety Net Academy

2:00:01will keep tenants and guests from going

2:00:03on our neighboring property, which has

2:00:05been an issue in the past years when

2:00:07neighboring apartments had lower income,

2:00:09high-risisk tenants. During that period

2:00:11of time, I personally over the last over

2:00:13many years picked up untold numbers of

2:00:15alcohol containers, used needles, a

2:00:18number of guns, which I turned over to

2:00:20the city of Boise Police Department. I

2:00:22believe the past will return with this

2:00:24um this project. With the proposed

2:00:27lights and cameras on the church

2:00:28property property, it's obvious that the

2:00:30properties it's obvious to me that they

2:00:33our properties will be the likely

2:00:34gathering place for dorm residents that

2:00:37want to do illicit activities outside

2:00:39the CSA surveillance system. Nor does it

2:00:43address the high-risisk men's bedroom

2:00:44that will be directly overlooking a

2:00:46children's playground directly behind it

2:00:49um in the apartment complexes. Cole Road

2:00:52is al already a dangerous um

2:00:56[clears throat] dangerous with cars

2:00:58going over 40 miles an hour only feet

2:01:00from the sidewalk. Lots of school

2:01:01children regularly lose a sidewalk with

2:01:04three schools in the immediate vicinity.

2:01:07Adding a public bus stop here will only

2:01:09add to the danger. Also, which wasn't

2:01:11reported, there are three or so public

2:01:14school bus stops every day in front of

2:01:16our office buildings on Cole and

2:01:18Tottenham Lane, only feet from the

2:01:20proposed dorms. The proposed dorms are

2:01:22located in a lower field where there's a

2:01:24large winter slush pools along the

2:01:26section of Cole Road. Uh, pedestrians

2:01:29get covered with slush as cars goes by

2:01:31and sidewalks get covered with a foot of

2:01:32snow plowed up by ACD whenever it snows.

2:01:36The church never keeps this sidewalk

2:01:38open clear in front of their uh so far

2:01:40that I've ever seen in 16 years. The

2:01:43impervious surfaces will only create a

2:01:44bigger problem. Um effects on our

2:01:47properties calculations show that the

2:01:48parking lot our calculations show the

2:01:50parking lot is 23 parking spots short on

2:01:53Sundays. The obviously overflow is our

2:01:55office parking lot which is directly

2:01:57next to it. The neighborhoods areas

2:01:59around the brethren church are not in

2:02:01decline as suggested. facts uh housing

2:02:05values are up. Median income in the west

2:02:07branch west uh bench is 85 to 95,000.

2:02:12Additionally, I reached out to two

2:02:13commercial real estate companies in

2:02:15Boise to ask [clears throat] regard

2:02:17that. The first realtor said okay not I

2:02:20will I will sell immediately.

2:02:22>> I I got to stop you if I can't I got to

2:02:24stop everybody at three minutes. I

2:02:26appreciate it. Sorry, but that's what I

2:02:27got to do. Thank you very much for

2:02:29coming. Okay. Um, next up, Lynn

2:02:32McDonald, followed by Emily Sarver.

2:02:38I have a Lynn McDonald.

2:02:42Don't have that name online either, I

2:02:45don't think.

2:02:47Okay, we can come back later. I'll try

2:02:49it again. Uh, Emily Sarver, followed by

2:02:52Elizabeth Marshall.

2:02:56>> Hi.

2:02:56>> Hi.

2:02:58Good evening, Mr. Chair Commissioners,

2:03:00my name is Emily Sarver at 6712 West

2:03:03Platinum Drive. I live on the West

2:03:06Bench. My kids go to school along

2:03:08Northview and I drive this stretch of

2:03:10pole every school day. I'm not here to

2:03:13argue against housing on Coal or about

2:03:16who would live there. I am here to raise

2:03:18serious concerns about traffic and

2:03:20pedestrian safety during the school

2:03:22year. It's already a perfect storm.

2:03:25three schools dropoff lines, a district

2:03:27bus stop where kids wait in the dark,

2:03:29and the official safe walking routes to

2:03:31Morley Nelson and Fairmont, all on one

2:03:34stretch of coal. This proposal drops two

2:03:37three-story dorms and a new transit stop

2:03:39right into the middle of it. New traffic

2:03:42on a quiet street is a small thing. New

2:03:45traffic on a school walking route

2:03:47between two bus stops in the dark is a

2:03:50very different thing.

2:03:52The blue bus on this map marks a

2:03:54district stop right at the corner of

2:03:55this site on a frontage with very few

2:03:58very dim street lights and at least two

2:04:01dozen students are routed along it along

2:04:03Cole and Northview roads. Kids and

2:04:06neighbors on foot cross driveway after

2:04:09driveway and side street after side

2:04:11street including the school and

2:04:13childcare entrances and now this site.

2:04:17Every one of these crossings is a moment

2:04:20where a driver and a child have to see

2:04:23each other in time.

2:04:26We have already learned what happens

2:04:27when they don't. 10 days ago, two

2:04:30Timberline students were hit in a

2:04:31crosswalk between their high school and

2:04:34an elementary school. Police say they

2:04:36were crossing legally.

2:04:39I don't want our neighborhood to be the

2:04:41next one on the news.

2:04:44Please take this seriously. Don't raise

2:04:47the odds here while there is still time

2:04:49to prevent it. Right now, no one has

2:04:52even looked at it during the school

2:04:53year. The highway district only reviewed

2:04:55the original plan using a traffic count

2:04:58from June 2023 after school was already

2:05:00out for the year. Yet, the staff report

2:05:02finds this site minimizes conflicts

2:05:04between pedestrian pedestrians and cars

2:05:08without even mentioning our schools. And

2:05:10any safety conditions you adopt tonight

2:05:12may not last. Staff has confirmed that

2:05:14if this becomes apartments, every

2:05:16condition on this permit goes away. So,

2:05:19I'm asking for three things. Require a

2:05:21school day traffic and pedestrian

2:05:23analysis before you decide. Put the

2:05:26safety conditions in writing, starting

2:05:28with real lighting along the frontage

2:05:30and at every bus stop, and recommend to

2:05:32council a development agreement. So,

2:05:34these protections outlast this owner.

2:05:37None of those can be done tonight, so

2:05:38I'm asking you to defer until they are.

2:05:42Please don't make our neighborhood find

2:05:45out the hard way. Thank you.

2:05:48>> Okay. Thank you very much, ma'am. Um,

2:05:51next up is Elizabeth Marshall.

2:05:57>> Elizabeth Marshall, 10649 North Sage

2:05:59Crest Place, Boise, Idaho. I co-owned

2:06:02two office buildings immediately north

2:06:04of this proposed development. I ran a

2:06:06high-tech business from there for years

2:06:08and kept the buildings to fund our

2:06:10retirement. Regarding operations and

2:06:12safety, dorm rooms cost more than the

2:06:15neighboring apartments that include

2:06:16laundry, allow guests, and require no

2:06:18extra work. Tenants would only rent a

2:06:20more expensive dorm room if neighboring

2:06:22apartments reject their application due

2:06:24to high risk. Now, the church's own

2:06:27community gardens failed. In their own

2:06:28words, it became quote unsightly

2:06:30weedinfested due to members not

2:06:32maintaining their garden spaces unquote.

2:06:35So, how will they make 80 high-risisk

2:06:36people maintain a garage, coffee, coffee

2:06:38coffee shop, laundry, and yard?

2:06:40Qualifications for staff evaluating

2:06:42applicants, counselor, training

2:06:44coordinator, and secretary remain

2:06:45undefined. Mr. Neighbors said that the

2:06:48interviewers quote antenna knows. He

2:06:50knows whether someone really is trying

2:06:52to pull the wool over our eyes or not.

2:06:54This shows lack of awareness of the

2:06:56complexity of the issues these

2:06:58interviewers will face. When asked what

2:07:00are the requirements to be a dorm

2:07:01manager, Mr. neighbor states, quote, "A

2:07:03respected, proven, mature adult,"

2:07:05unquote. The mentors will have

2:07:07significant responsibilities, yet their

2:07:09qualifications remain undefined. How can

2:07:12a rotating volunteer student security

2:07:14team with undefined functions be

2:07:15qualified and effective? They stated,

2:07:18"Based on third party council, we plan

2:07:20to limit the dorms to males only." Mr.

2:07:23neighbors stated, "So there are other

2:07:24churches that quote can deal with women,

2:07:26and we've just been advised over and

2:07:28over again not to mix men and women in a

2:07:30dorm setting, but they're doing it

2:07:32anyway, creating new problems with no

2:07:34plans to manage them. I requested the

2:07:36proforma from Mr. Neighbors per their

2:07:38website and received none. What I do

2:07:40know is what was 450 a room is now 650

2:07:42plus fees. What was going to cost 7

2:07:45million is now 8.5 million. These are

2:07:48big swings. The trees the plans do not

2:07:50accommodate the 10- foot critical root

2:07:52zone beyond the tree drip line beyond

2:07:55for the row of the very beautiful row of

2:07:57black walnut trees as required by the

2:07:59city's code. The measurements I have

2:08:01made on site show [clears throat]

2:08:02critical root zones

2:08:05for these trees go well into the dorm

2:08:06rooms and a large oak critical root zone

2:08:09extends through and beyond the proposed

2:08:12coffee shop. Water. The site must show

2:08:15it has adequate water supply. I called

2:08:17uh the church property is in the Capitol

2:08:19water service area. When I called to

2:08:20verify adequate water supply, staff

2:08:23there stated that the connection to

2:08:24Viola water is illegal. The project's

2:08:27operational and security plans are not

2:08:29defined. They're not measurable and lack

2:08:31defined qualifications and functions

2:08:34while creating material negative impacts

2:08:37for me, my tenants, and these neighbors.

2:08:40I respectfully ask you to deny this

2:08:42application. Thank you.

2:08:44>> Thank you very much, ma'am. appreciate

2:08:46it. Um, let me just real quick come back

2:08:48to Lynn McDonald. We take one more one

2:08:50more crack.

2:08:52Okay, I'm going go ahead and mark her

2:08:53off. All right, let's go back to the

2:08:56other list here. Um,

2:08:59Maria uh Barrett Riley and then Jason

2:09:02Downing.

2:09:08>> Hi.

2:09:08>> Hi, Mr. Chair and commissioners. My name

2:09:11is Maria Barrett Riley and I reside at

2:09:133998 North Bernstead Place, Boyisey

2:09:158374.

2:09:17Thank you for the opportunity to testify

2:09:19in opposition to this proposal. In

2:09:21January, the commission gave the

2:09:22applicant an opportunity to correct

2:09:24significant deficiencies. The chair

2:09:26referenced 12 missing safeguards

2:09:28identified in written testimony

2:09:30highlighting a firm occupancy cap and

2:09:32247 on-site management. Also called for

2:09:35security and operating plan.

2:09:37Commissioners questioned whether adverse

2:09:39neighborhood impacts could be adequately

2:09:40mitigated. Months later, those

2:09:42deficiencies remain and new evidence

2:09:44raises serious questions about the

2:09:46reliability of the revised plan. The

2:09:48applicant claimed a referral partnership

2:09:50with Interfaith Sanctuary and yet

2:09:52Interfaith's executive director just

2:09:54confirmed that no partnership, financial

2:09:56agreement, or commitment exists. This is

2:09:58not a minor discrepancy. The applicant's

2:10:01procedure for managing dismissed

2:10:02residents relies on an arrangement

2:10:04Interfaith says doesn't exist. What

2:10:06enforcable alternative protects

2:10:08alternative protects residents and the

2:10:10surrounding neighborhood? The revised

2:10:12proposal expands the resident population

2:10:14to include vulnerable individuals,

2:10:16including young adults aging out of

2:10:17foster care, women, and senior mentors,

2:10:20alongside individuals transitioning from

2:10:22incarceration, including some sex

2:10:24offender histories. In addition, the

2:10:26addition of female residents raises

2:10:28questions about pregnancy and children.

2:10:30Federal Fair housing laws protects

2:10:32pregnant women and families with

2:10:33children. The application does not

2:10:35explain whether children could reside on

2:10:37campus, how child birth would be

2:10:38handled, or what lawful occupancy rec

2:10:41restrictions would apply.

2:10:44Meanwhile, the security plan still lacks

2:10:46adequate safeguards in addressing

2:10:47resident compatibility, enforcable

2:10:50occupancy limits, continuous

2:10:51supervision, screening, housing

2:10:53assignments, and procedures for

2:10:55responding to dangerous behavior. It's

2:10:57been said tonight that there that the

2:10:59commission cannot set a cap. Where

2:11:00specifically in code does that exist

2:11:02because we've not been able to find that

2:11:04exp specific exclusion.

2:11:06Idaho code generally prohibits more than

2:11:08two registered sex offenders from

2:11:10residing in the same dwelling unit. The

2:11:13application does not demonstrate how

2:11:14compliance will be in ensured. Concerns

2:11:17also remain regarding the automotive

2:11:19workshop including whether vehicle

2:11:20repair activities are permitted under

2:11:22the proposed zoning, hazardous

2:11:24materials, traffic, parking, and

2:11:25pedestrian safety. These risks are

2:11:28especially consequential given the high

2:11:30concentration of nearby schools, childc

2:11:32care facilities, child serving uses,

2:11:34student walking routes, and bus stops,

2:11:36including, as we just heard, a Boisee

2:11:38school district bus stop now

2:11:39[clears throat] exist right in front of

2:11:40the church. The commission provided

2:11:42additional time to resolve these

2:11:44deficiencies. The applicant has not

2:11:46demonstrated that adverse impacts can be

2:11:48adequately mitigated or that required

2:11:50conditional use findings can be

2:11:51supported. Asurances about future

2:11:53operations are not substitutes for

2:11:55enforceable safeguards. I respectfully

2:11:57request that you deny this proposal.

2:12:00>> Thank you very much, ma'am. Appreciate

2:12:01you coming out. Okay. Uh Jason Downing,

2:12:04followed by Michelle Downing.

2:12:10>> Thank you. My name is Jason Downing.

2:12:11Address 13326 West Tapato Drive, Boise.

2:12:14And I have two children that attend one

2:12:15of the schools that are nearby. I come

2:12:17I'll keep it brief. I come tonight to

2:12:20hear that there were security con uh

2:12:23promises made because we actually owned

2:12:25a house prior that backed up at one of

2:12:28these facilities that opened and we

2:12:29heard a lot of these same promises made

2:12:32by the people who ran that. And by the

2:12:35time the city council left and we had

2:12:36new city council members and we had new

2:12:38city managers and new boards that

2:12:41oversaw it and it went downhill and we

2:12:43went and we brought those concerns

2:12:45because it went downhill. There was

2:12:47violence at those uh facilities. I had

2:12:50two two very small children at the time

2:12:52and I found myself having to go in my

2:12:54yard to look for needles because we

2:12:56backed up to the facility before I could

2:12:58let them play in it because I would

2:13:00regularly find those. And then I came

2:13:02here tonight and I was feeling pretty

2:13:04good at the beginning when Mr. Neighbor

2:13:05said there were going to be on-site

2:13:07security for this. And then as the night

2:13:09went on, it changed to well, they're

2:13:10going to be volunteer security. And then

2:13:12it was it's now going to be the security

2:13:15is the volunteers that are senior and

2:13:18live in the dormitories. And I don't

2:13:20know that those people are qualified or

2:13:22what their backgrounds are, but it

2:13:23sounds to me like they're intended to be

2:13:25more as instructors or educators for

2:13:27these individuals at first and security

2:13:29second or third or maybe last. And that

2:13:32is my big concern. And as it was already

2:13:35mentioned by one of the ladies here

2:13:36tonight, there's a lot of children who

2:13:38walk by this facility as they go to and

2:13:41from this school. And these people, as

2:13:43we found with the facility that opened

2:13:45up behind our old house, they do not,

2:13:48you know, do these illicit activities in

2:13:50the dorm rooms where the supervisors

2:13:51are. They go out onto the other parts of

2:13:53the property where they can kind of do

2:13:55it in private. And I think we also had a

2:13:57gentleman who said that his business has

2:13:58had this problem as well. So that's all

2:14:01I want to add. I'll relinquish the rest

2:14:03of my time.

2:14:03>> Okay. Thank you, sir. Appreciate it. Uh

2:14:05Michelle Downing,

2:14:08did you come up? Ma'am, I just want you

2:14:09to just know I know the letter that you

2:14:12read or you wrote and I know that you've

2:14:14got a little uh anxiety I guess about

2:14:17this and I just wanted to assure you

2:14:18that everybody here is citizen

2:14:20volunteers and a lot like everybody else

2:14:22in the audience. So, you're in good

2:14:24hands.

2:14:24>> Well, you guys know what I said in the

2:14:26letter. Not I'm not going to repeat that

2:14:27here, but my name is Michelle Downey. My

2:14:29address is 13326 West Tapato. I'd like

2:14:32to go back to the um definition of

2:14:36co-housing versus um what is

2:14:38rehabilitation? Um co-housing, you know,

2:14:41they keep saying dorms. Well, I went to

2:14:43colleges. Most of us probably in here

2:14:44went to college and as you know, we

2:14:46sneak things in all the time, even with

2:14:48rooms and RAS and things of that nature.

2:14:51My question is is that Mr. neighbors

2:14:53keeps bringing up this idea of

2:14:55counselors and mentors and you know now

2:14:58no curfews and oh we have to have

2:15:00security. Well, you're bringing in

2:15:02people with depression, anxiety, trauma,

2:15:05uh he said trafficked females who could

2:15:08be from uh domestic violence and that.

2:15:11So why isn't that falling under the idea

2:15:13of violence in the future and that this

2:15:15is more of a rehab than a dormatory?

2:15:19I really the rest of my time.

2:15:21>> Thank you ma'am. Okay. Uh Jackie

2:15:23Davidson followed by Mia Baron

2:15:28and then after that is Sarah Lester.

2:15:34>> Hi,

2:15:36Mr. Chair and commissioners. I really

2:15:38appreciate everything you do. Uh you're

2:15:41working hard. Uh my name is Jackie

2:15:43Davidson. Uh my address is 8107 West

2:15:46Canterbury Court in Boisee. uh precinct

2:15:50committeeman uh chair of the district 16

2:15:53Republican party and uh we're seeing

2:15:56this coming into my precinct. So I'm a

2:15:59little alarmed about that. Um

2:16:03I'm opposed of course of the possibility

2:16:05of sex offenders and felons being housed

2:16:08so close to schools and daycarees in

2:16:10this neighborhood. The safety of our

2:16:12children is most important. But I also

2:16:14have a concern about ha how bringing in

2:16:17these uh vulnerable foster kids and then

2:16:20putting them in in direct uh housing

2:16:24with uh the sex offenders. So once again

2:16:28it's all about the sex offenders. Um,

2:16:32another thing is I've seen that what a

2:16:34struggle this project has been whether

2:16:37concerning how to zone the project to

2:16:39the actual plan for the project and what

2:16:42it's being intended for. And multiple

2:16:44times I've heard it said there isn't

2:16:47anything in code that handles this.

2:16:50There's code for single house

2:16:52transitional projects but nothing of

2:16:54this kind of scale. And there I so I was

2:16:58looking at the code and there's detailed

2:17:00requirements for daycarees, ADUs, even

2:17:04uh animal kennels. However, there's no

2:17:07requirements for setting up this kind of

2:17:09project. I've read some of the

2:17:11requirements and they're quite detailed.

2:17:14There's even uh sections just for

2:17:16certain subdivisions.

2:17:18And so um I thought that was

2:17:20interesting. So, it's my recommendation

2:17:23that at this time the project be

2:17:25deferred until requirements can be

2:17:27entered into the code providing guard

2:17:30rails to protect the community. And I

2:17:33would hope that you would put these

2:17:34requirements in that no sex offenders or

2:17:37felons would be allowed requirements for

2:17:40security teams uh and maybe some caps um

2:17:44and etc. And um that's that's what I

2:17:49have. So, thank you for your time and

2:17:51listening to me. Thanks.

2:17:52>> Thank you, ma'am. Appreciate it. Okay,

2:17:53Mia Baron, followed by Sarah Lester,

2:17:56followed by Martin Santoyo.

2:18:02>> Hello.

2:18:02>> Hello. Thank you. My name is Mia Baron

2:18:05and I am the owner of a child's heart

2:18:08learning center and nursery uh located

2:18:10at 2410 North Co and also 2406 North

2:18:15Coal Road. Um, I've been there since

2:18:18March of 2017

2:18:20and um, we uh, we currently serve

2:18:24children ages 6 weeks to 12 years old.

2:18:28Um, for the last 10 years, I've

2:18:30dedicated my life to serving children

2:18:32and families um, by providing early

2:18:35childhood education in a safe and loving

2:18:38environment. It is a wonderful location

2:18:42surrounded by schools, parks, and family

2:18:45homes.

2:18:46Within a tight radius of my location is

2:18:49Morley Nelson Elementary, its community

2:18:53center and tennis courts, North View

2:18:55Monasuri Preschool in kindergarten, St.

2:18:58Mark's Catholic School, Fairmont Junior

2:19:01High, Mountain View Elementary, Fairmont

2:19:04Park and Pool, the Soccer Park on North

2:19:07View and Milwaukee, Winstead Park on

2:19:10North View. It is a welcoming,

2:19:12familyorientated

2:19:14at atmosphere.

2:19:15It is noble of the church to want to

2:19:18help men and now women. I'm a little

2:19:20confused on the project. Um I thought I

2:19:23had an understanding of it, but the more

2:19:25that I hear, uh it it is confusing on

2:19:27what they're trying to do. Um, they did

2:19:31mention that they were wanting to help

2:19:34men who are on parole dealing with past

2:19:37issues, whether caught or not, or

2:19:40potential, in my mind, sex offenders, to

2:19:43try to help rehabilitate their lives.

2:19:45But this proposed plan is in the wrong

2:19:47location.

2:19:49Um, relapse is part of recovery.

2:19:53Um, I'm just very concerned about the

2:19:55frequency and number of children that

2:19:57walk and bike up and down North Pole

2:20:00Road and North View in the morning in

2:20:02the afternoons to these locations every

2:20:05day throughout the school year and the

2:20:06summer. My business opens at 6:30 a.m.

2:20:09and closes at 6:00 p.m. which can be

2:20:12dark depending on the times of the year.

2:20:14My staff who are mostly female have a

2:20:16several minute walk from River City

2:20:18Church uh on North View where they park

2:20:21and walk to our center by crossing at

2:20:24the traffic light right next to the bus

2:20:26stop at Cole. It can be a stressful walk

2:20:29as as it is and they have already

2:20:31reported strange encounters on occasions

2:20:34that have left them rattled. In

2:20:36addition, parents are trying to unload

2:20:38and load infants and toddlers with their

2:20:40belongings, not only at my child care

2:20:42center, but also at North View Monasuri

2:20:45every day of the week. It is my

2:20:47understanding the people living in the

2:20:50dorm would be utilizing the bus stop and

2:20:52walking up and down North Pole in North

2:20:54View and have multiple opportunities of

2:20:56interaction with children, teens, and

2:20:59parents without being monitored. They

2:21:01would have the ability to become

2:21:02familiar with where people live and

2:21:05their comingings and goings. We should

2:21:08have the right to feel safe in this

2:21:09community. This proposal is not a

2:21:12benefit to the children or families that

2:21:14currently utilize the area and if

2:21:16approved would be a detriment to our

2:21:18community and an unfair liability to

2:21:22those.

2:21:22>> Thank you, ma'am.

2:21:23>> That work.

2:21:24>> Appreciate it. Okay.

2:21:25>> Thanks for coming out. Okay. Sarah

2:21:26Lester followed by Martin Santoo. viral

2:21:30followed by uh Lauren I think it's

2:21:33Shilly.

2:21:36>> My name is Sarah Lester. I live at 9628

2:21:39West Mono Billow in Boisee.

2:21:42I'm here to formally object. This

2:21:44location is a frisbee throw to a sizable

2:21:47daycare and multiple primary schools. As

2:21:50a local parent, this deeply alarms me.

2:21:53My own 5-year-old attends the daycare in

2:21:56this zone. His daily safety is my

2:21:59highest concern. Furthermore, I speak

2:22:03from direct personal experience with the

2:22:06current housing. My son's father lived

2:22:10at the current offender housing, and I

2:22:12witnessed firsthand the alarming lack of

2:22:15security, organization, and oversight of

2:22:18the criminal residents.

2:22:21These current

2:22:23the current house is not run in a manner

2:22:26that keeps the safety of children and

2:22:28the residents of the neighborhood

2:22:31in mind. Growing to a bigger facility

2:22:34will not fix the underlying poor

2:22:37operations.

2:22:39We have a zoned we have zoned

2:22:41neighborhoods for a reason and given the

2:22:43heavy concentration of children walking

2:22:46and families playing in the area. This

2:22:51uh in the immediate area this

2:22:53application should be declined. Granting

2:22:56this change creates an unacceptable

2:22:59increased risk and exposure of children

2:23:02to safety vulnerabilities including

2:23:04exposure to sex offenders and criminals.

2:23:10It ignores the poor history of the

2:23:12current program that is being run there

2:23:14already. Zoning codes exist to safeguard

2:23:17families and maintain the integrity of

2:23:20our neighborhoods. And I urge this board

2:23:23to protect the children attending our

2:23:25local schools and daycarees

2:23:28and to deny this application. Thank you

2:23:30for your time.

2:23:31>> Thank you, ma'am. Appreciate it. Okay.

2:23:33Uh, next up is Martin Santoo followed by

2:23:36Lauren Schilly followed by John Rap.

2:23:40Mr. Chairman, members of the committee

2:23:42commission, Martin Santoo, 7213 West

2:23:45Swift Lane, Boyisey 8374.

2:23:49And first, thank you for how you're

2:23:51handling this meeting. It's very much

2:23:52appreciated and happy to be here to give

2:23:55my ideas and testimony. More ideas than

2:23:58you've already answered a lot of

2:23:59questions. some questions have been

2:24:01answered by your questions. Very good.

2:24:03And so one of the questions on curfew

2:24:05still needs to be standing because I I

2:24:09work on re-entry centers for state of

2:24:11Idaho and so [clears throat] I'm

2:24:12somewhat familiar with how they work

2:24:14their curfew and they have their

2:24:18residents go out into the public for

2:24:20their jobs and they need to be in the

2:24:23dorm

2:24:24during uh past 10 10 p.m. through 6 a.m.

2:24:28So it works. Not sure if that is

2:24:31something I can still put on on the

2:24:32table. Um, yeah, we want the best places

2:24:36to live here. This is one of the reasons

2:24:38why I moved to this neighborhood in 1994

2:24:40[clears throat]

2:24:41and it's a very wellestablished

2:24:43neighborhood. Love it. And it's central

2:24:45to everything. When I moved there, I was

2:24:47talking to an attorney friend and he

2:24:49said, "Yeah, you're close to everything,

2:24:51including crime, but it's pretty low,

2:24:53but we don't we want to keep that." And

2:24:55so the impact and I heard uh

2:24:57Commissioner Saha talk about an

2:24:58environmental impact. So anytime you're

2:25:01adding new uses to an area like this,

2:25:04you're condensing and compressing

2:25:06already existing uses. And so we need to

2:25:08take that into consideration. So you do

2:25:10have the charge as a commission to

2:25:13implement conditions of approval to

2:25:15mitigate that impact, that negative

2:25:17impact by either reducing the number of

2:25:20residents or phasing it. And I think I

2:25:23read in one of the letters in the

2:25:25testimony to phase this project. And so

2:25:28my one of my questions to the applicant

2:25:30would be can you phase this project or

2:25:33in other words can part of it be for

2:25:36where the proposed housing is and the

2:25:38other portion be is for low-income

2:25:41housing which our city does need. And so

2:25:44yeah going back to a very live livable

2:25:46community we want that. And um

2:25:51street lights, I heard a question or

2:25:53comment about that, we do need more

2:25:55street lights. And so regard to the

2:25:59phasing of the project,

2:26:01if it could be according to fair housing

2:26:04and just a really quick note on that

2:26:06started with Dorothy Gertrude, section 8

2:26:08housing became fair housing. It was for

2:26:11equality and giving people a good place

2:26:13to live for education. and she wanted

2:26:16education for her children Chicago and

2:26:19so that's how it got started. So we

2:26:21could have part of this Mr. Applicant be

2:26:24for lower income housing and for his

2:26:28proposed university

2:26:30um see how that works and then maybe

2:26:33over time the whole thing can be as his

2:26:36proposal is stated in the application to

2:26:39see how it works over time and if it

2:26:42works great. In terms of code

2:26:44enforcement, good questions. I think it

2:26:46was over here, Commissioner Stallings.

2:26:48Yeah, certificate of occupancy can be

2:26:50revoked and that's a good thing I've

2:26:53worked through that process through.

2:26:54Thank you.

2:26:55>> Thank you, sir. Thanks for coming out.

2:26:56Appreciate it. Okay, Lauren Schilly,

2:26:58followed by John Rap

2:27:01uh followed by I think it's Nor is it

2:27:05Norah Piper?

2:27:07I think the last name is Piper. We'll

2:27:08come back to that. Hi.

2:27:10>> Hi. Good evening, chair and

2:27:12commissioners. My name is Lauren Schilly

2:27:13and I live at 2641 Northwestland Place.

2:27:16I am here to stand in opposition of this

2:27:18academy. I have a lot of concerns that

2:27:21many have already talked about tonight,

2:27:22so I won't repeat those. However, I do

2:27:24have one concern that no one's really

2:27:25touched on, and that is the safety of

2:27:27the aged out foster youth that this

2:27:29program says that that is primarily

2:27:31designed for. I respect what this

2:27:32program is trying to do for these aged

2:27:34out foster youth. These 18, 19, 20 year

2:27:36olds who have no family to call and no

2:27:38one they can rely on, and many have

2:27:40already been hurt by the adults in their

2:27:41lives. They are exactly the people a sex

2:27:43offender looks for as their next victim.

2:27:45So the question is simple. How does this

2:27:47program protect from the sex offenders

2:27:48that they would be living with? The

2:27:50program's own neighborhood Q&A asked why

2:27:52they won't commit to not housing people

2:27:53on the sex offender registry. They

2:27:55declined to make that commitment. I'm

2:27:57not saying the program wants to put

2:27:59anyone at risk. Mr. Neighbor himself

2:28:01today claims they don't want to put

2:28:02people in harm's way and those accepted

2:28:05would be at risk of low offending. I'm

2:28:07saying a program that claims its primary

2:28:09purpose is serving 18, 19, and 20 year

2:28:11olds should be able to say in writing it

2:28:13and will never house known sex offenders

2:28:15in the same units as protect as aged out

2:28:17foster youth. If you look at the safety

2:28:20plan, it talks about protecting the

2:28:21property, the light, lighting, cameras,

2:28:24key cards, and alarms. None of that

2:28:25protects a young person from someone who

2:28:27lives down the hall or someone who

2:28:28shares their kitchen and bathroom. The

2:28:30program does not say how roommates are

2:28:32assigned or whether a young person that

2:28:33is 18 or 19 years old would be sharing a

2:28:36unit with a sex offender. And if a young

2:28:38person is hurt, the program does not say

2:28:40who they can tell or if they would be

2:28:42safe and protected when they report.

2:28:44There is no independent reporting

2:28:45channel and no outside advocate that I

2:28:47can see. Nothing says a victim also

2:28:49cannot be dismissed from housing for

2:28:50speaking up, which is extremely

2:28:52concerning for a young person with

2:28:54nowhere else to go. That is a reason for

2:28:56them to stay silent. And we know that

2:28:58many foster youth do stay silent in the

2:29:01face of abuse. A survey by the National

2:29:03Foster Care Youth and Alumni Policy

2:29:05Council found that among abused youth,

2:29:0778% of the men and 41% of the women

2:29:09never report it. The program plans a

2:29:12handful of on-site staff and much of the

2:29:14patrolling is done by resident

2:29:15volunteers. Even college campuses have

2:29:18professional security, which college has

2:29:21been brought up quite a lot today. I

2:29:24found no trauma-informed training and

2:29:25nor coordination with the department of

2:29:27health and welfare. Mentors will live in

2:29:29these units too and the program does not

2:29:30say how a young person would report a

2:29:32mentor in the case that the mentor

2:29:34committed the crime against them. This

2:29:36is not only for the safety of the

2:29:38community but also for the age out

2:29:39foster youth this program claims it was

2:29:41built for. If it was truly created for

2:29:43age out foster youth, the program should

2:29:44have no problem prohibiting sex

2:29:46offenders from living with them. So, I

2:29:48respectfully ask the commission to

2:29:49consider age uh to deny this

2:29:52application. Thank you so much.

2:29:54>> Okay. Thank you very much. Okay. John

2:29:57Rap followed by again I think it's Nora

2:30:00or Naomi Piper. Can't quite tell. And

2:30:04then Laura or Lauren Strong.

2:30:07>> Hello.

2:30:08>> Hello. Uh I'm John Rob 7707 West Vallejo

2:30:12Hill Boise. And I um have just a couple

2:30:15comments. One is it doesn't fit the

2:30:17zoning that they're requesting. How can

2:30:20you uh approve something if it doesn't

2:30:22fit? Uh there's too many different

2:30:24things that don't fit with either one,

2:30:25but the one they're asking for tonight

2:30:27doesn't fit. The other thing is the

2:30:29safety of our children. Our children are

2:30:32our most important treasure.

2:30:35There is no safety net for them on this.

2:30:38There's no security that's professional.

2:30:41They need a professional security guard

2:30:44or a a structure there on site 247

2:30:50and I don't even know if that would help

2:30:52them because they get to walk off the

2:30:54the campus or the place and so children

2:30:57are at risk there. So I respectfully

2:31:00request that you deny this based on

2:31:03those two things. Thank you.

2:31:05>> Thank you very much.

2:31:07Okay. Uh, the next person whose name I'm

2:31:09having a hard time has the same address

2:31:11as him. [laughter] So, that should be a

2:31:14pretty big clue.

2:31:16Followed by uh Lauren Strong and then uh

2:31:21April Lanningham.

2:31:27My name is Nikai Piper.

2:31:29>> Okay, you got it. Now, I'm not a good

2:31:32speaker by any means, but all I would

2:31:34say is that this is not very far off in

2:31:36voting yes on Prop One. Okay? We should

2:31:39all vote no on Prop One. This is not far

2:31:43off.

2:31:45I don't have kids, but I have kids very

2:31:48close to me. And by opening up a

2:31:52situation like this does not stop when

2:31:54you do not actually

2:31:56>> I need you to can you can you please

2:31:58address this? and you do not have a plan

2:32:00set safely,

2:32:02that opens up a can of whoopass. And

2:32:05trust me, we live in the state of Idaho

2:32:07and us Idahoans do not stand quietly. We

2:32:11will absolutely stand up and we will let

2:32:14you know when it is too much.

2:32:18So, I highly recommend that you all vote

2:32:22no on this bull crap. Thank you.

2:32:25>> All right. Thank you, sir. Okay. Uh, is

2:32:27it Lauren Strong

2:32:30followed by April Lanningham

2:32:33and I think it's it might be Jeremy

2:32:36Lanningham.

2:32:40Oh, online. Okay, great. Thank you,

2:32:43Lauren, you're online. Yeah,

2:32:54we see your hand raised. Looks like

2:32:56we're maybe connecting.

2:33:00And I think with the Landingham folks

2:33:02make their way up to the front in the

2:33:04meantime.

2:33:07There we go. We're getting there.

2:33:11>> Can you hear me?

2:33:12>> Yep. Thank you.

2:33:14>> Thank you.

2:33:14>> Okay, perfect. Thank you. Um, good

2:33:16evening members of the committee

2:33:18committee. U, my name is Lauren Strong

2:33:20and I reside at 7543 West Tottenham

2:33:23Lane. Um, I am here today as a concerned

2:33:26resident and single mother to express my

2:33:28opposition to the proposed transitional

2:33:30housing complex directly adjacent to our

2:33:33apartment community. As a mother, I make

2:33:36a conscious effort to encourage outdoor

2:33:38play rather than excessive screen time

2:33:40and I regularly witness many other

2:33:43families in our community doing the

2:33:44same. Our children deserve to feel safe

2:33:46playing outside their homes and as

2:33:48parents, we deserve the peace of mind

2:33:50that comes with knowing their

2:33:51environment is secure. Currently, the

2:33:54only physical separation between our

2:33:55apartment complex and the proposed

2:33:57development is a chainlink fence, which

2:33:59raises significant concerns regarding

2:34:01security and accessibility. While I

2:34:03understand the prospective residents

2:34:05undergo a screening process, I have yet

2:34:07to hear adequate explanations regarding

2:34:09visitor access who will be responsible

2:34:11for screening visitors, monitoring their

2:34:13activity, and ensuring unauthorized

2:34:15individuals do not enter the property. I

2:34:17believe it has been stated that the

2:34:19mentors and security personnel will be

2:34:20senior citizens. But what

2:34:22qualifications, training, oversight, and

2:34:23incentives will be in place to ensure

2:34:25they can effectively fulfill these

2:34:27responsibilities? Will security

2:34:29personnel remain awake and actively

2:34:32monitor the property throughout the

2:34:33night? And what safeguards will prevent

2:34:35unauthorized visitors from entering

2:34:37during overnight hours? Additionally, it

2:34:39was previously mentioned that residents

2:34:41may could potentially utilize parking

2:34:44areas belonging to our apartment complex

2:34:46and the neighboring office building. How

2:34:49will this be regulated and what measures

2:34:50will protect existing residents from

2:34:52unauthorized parking, trespassing, and

2:34:54potential safety concerns? The apparent

2:34:57lack of adequate surveillance cameras

2:34:59also raises questions of how prohibited

2:35:01activities, including potential drug

2:35:03use, would be detected and addressed.

2:35:06Will residents be subject to routine or

2:35:08random drug testing? How frequently

2:35:09would testing occur and what

2:35:11consequences would follow violations? I

2:35:14recognize the importance of providing

2:35:16transitional housing and opportunities

2:35:17for individuals working towards civility

2:35:19and independence. However, that

2:35:21responsibility must be balanced with the

2:35:22safety, security, and well-being of the

2:35:24families already living in the

2:35:25surrounding community. My concerns are

2:35:28not based on assumptions about the

2:35:29individ individuals who may reside

2:35:31there, but rather on the lack of clearly

2:35:34communicated enforcable security

2:35:35measures and accountability. I should

2:35:37not have to choose between allowing my

2:35:39child to enjoy a normal childhood

2:35:40outdoors as well as the other children

2:35:43walking constantly on these streets and

2:35:46constantly worrying about whether the

2:35:47environment surrounding our home is

2:35:49adequately protected. Until these

2:35:51concerns are thoroughly addressed with

2:35:52specific enforceable safeguards, I

2:35:54cannot support this development as

2:35:56currently proposed. But and also

2:36:00I will probably never be able to support

2:36:02it. But thank you for your time and

2:36:05consideration.

2:36:07Okay. Thank you, ma'am. Uh, let's go

2:36:09next to April Lanningham and then Jeremy

2:36:12Lanningham.

2:36:16>> Hello, Mr. Chair and commissioners.

2:36:18Thank you for your time tonight. Um,

2:36:20just to we looked the uh Idaho statute

2:36:23um question about how many residents uh

2:36:26SRO's could be in a dwelling unit and it

2:36:28states in title eight um title 18 and

2:36:32chapter 83 that it is two per dwelling

2:36:34unit. So for this project there could be

2:36:37um 40 SRO's in on site but that's not

2:36:41what I was going to speak about. Um I'm

2:36:45actually going to shift gears

2:36:46altogether. Um our neighborhood it is a

2:36:49wonderful place as you've heard and we

2:36:52cherish the stat the state that we've

2:36:54raised our children um in and the

2:36:57walkability the safety etc.

2:37:00And because of the nature of this

2:37:02project as well as the density that was

2:37:04mentioned with the rest of the pro um

2:37:07homes in the area being disproportionate

2:37:09to the rest of the valley. Um I even

2:37:13heard in the restroom tonight if you

2:37:15approve this project I'm going to be

2:37:16listing my house. We don't want to face

2:37:19that. We we don't want the negative

2:37:21impacts to um reduce the value of our

2:37:24homes and just the the cherished um

2:37:28community that we've built over the

2:37:30years.

2:37:31And last last meeting in January, you

2:37:35stated yourself that this the role of

2:37:38this commission is to protect the

2:37:40health, safety, and welfare of the

2:37:42community. And right now, our community

2:37:44doesn't have anybody else but you. You

2:37:46are our last line of defense. So please,

2:37:49I ask you respectfully to uh de um to

2:37:54not approve the cup and if you do add

2:37:56additional conditions that are

2:37:58enforceable. Thank you.

2:38:00>> Okay. Thank you, ma'am. Uh Jeremy

2:38:02Landingham.

2:38:06>> Good evening. Thank you for your time

2:38:07and energy on all this. Um it's been a

2:38:09long time coming. I'm Jeremy Landingham.

2:38:12I live at 7103 West Pomona Road, Boyce,

2:38:15Idaho 8374. I've lived at that residence

2:38:18for 21 years. I've been a person that

2:38:21people talk to when I'm mowing my lawn

2:38:24and the dog whisperer. I'm a soccer

2:38:26coach. I'm a church member. Um, I'm

2:38:30pretty easygoing, but I

2:38:33definitely and yeah, I just definitely

2:38:36oppose this based on the security nature

2:38:39that have been brought up a couple

2:38:41different time and like my wife was

2:38:43saying, the community and I guess you

2:38:45would say the neighborhood character.

2:38:47There has been a steady decline in the

2:38:50past 21 years. I've had people walk up

2:38:52my driveway trying to like fleece the

2:38:55place. I've watched numerous people come

2:38:59from the plasma center, the liquor

2:39:02store, the Walmart, and it it hasn't

2:39:05been good. I won't let my daughters go

2:39:07to Walmart at night after 7:30 when it's

2:39:10dark. There's just a there's definitely

2:39:12a there's a thing that's happening in

2:39:15this neighborhood. I'm not saying that

2:39:17all people are bad, and I give people

2:39:19the benefit of the doubt,

2:39:21but that's not community. community

2:39:24isn't transient behavior walking through

2:39:27this propo. This proposal has shifted

2:39:30gears numerous times. People are scared

2:39:33to talk. Um, as a red-blooded American,

2:39:38I'm just saying say no. Thank you.

2:39:41>> Before you go, sir, I got a 16-week old

2:39:43puppy at home and you mentioned you're a

2:39:46dog whisperer.

2:39:47>> Say again.

2:39:48>> I said I got a 16-week old puppy at home

2:39:51and you mentioned being a dog whisperer.

2:39:52I need to chat with you.

2:39:53>> I have a I have a uh 12-month-old or a

2:39:5612week old too.

2:39:57>> Brutal.

2:39:58>> It's brutal. Brutal.

2:39:59>> Thank you.

2:39:59>> Let's take Let's take five and we'll

2:40:02reconvene and we'll uh con can continue

2:40:05on with our list.

2:40:13>> Okay, if we could go ahead and

2:40:15reconvene, we'll get underway.

2:40:22All right. Uh, let's reconvene. And our

2:40:26first

2:40:28person back up here is going to be Sean

2:40:30Thompson

2:40:31and then Katherine.

2:40:36Katherine,

2:40:38I think it's it might be it Higgins. I

2:40:40can't quite make that out. Oh, yes.

2:40:44Okay. M. Are you Mr. Thompson? Great.

2:40:46Please go ahead.

2:40:48>> Thank you, council. everybody who's

2:40:49here. I just uh my name is Sean

2:40:51Thompson. I'm a Boise resident, a proud

2:40:54Idahoan, and a father of two young

2:40:57children. And I'm really grateful for

2:41:00the opportunity to be able to speak

2:41:01today for you guys to hear truly what

2:41:04the community's voice is truly thinking.

2:41:06And if you look behind me, there's a lot

2:41:08of people here who care a lot about this

2:41:10topic. And I could only ask that you

2:41:13might consider, would you like this in

2:41:15your neighborhood? And you know what? I

2:41:17think what Mr. Neighbors is doing is is

2:41:21noble cause. I don't think that he's

2:41:23trying to make this community upset, but

2:41:26I have to admit it's like being, you

2:41:28know, uninvited to a party and nobody

2:41:30really wants you there. Do you really

2:41:32want to go to that party? Do you want to

2:41:34live and and truly try to help these

2:41:36people, you know, as your, you know,

2:41:39plan intends to do? And the truth is,

2:41:42it's just not going to be a welcoming

2:41:43community for these people. And it's

2:41:46unfortunate. And I think there's a place

2:41:47for them, but unfortunately it's not in

2:41:50this part of the town. And I wish them

2:41:52the best. And I hope that through all of

2:41:54this that you can hear the pleads of the

2:41:57community like myself as a as a father

2:41:59who would prefer to have his kids be

2:42:01able to come home when the street lights

2:42:02come on like we had when we were kids.

2:42:05And I bet you know a drink of your

2:42:07choice that we all don't really want to

2:42:09be here right now to fight this battle.

2:42:11But admittedly, I really hope that you

2:42:15can hear the pleads of the community

2:42:16who's standing behind me that we oppose

2:42:19this strongly and appreciate your time

2:42:21and thank you so much for your

2:42:22consideration.

2:42:23>> Thank you, Mr. Thompson.

2:42:23>> Cheers for coming out. Okay, Katherine

2:42:27Higgins followed by Brian uh I think

2:42:30it's Anderton

2:42:32and then Sparky Stewart.

2:42:37>> Uh Katherine Higgins at 7322 West

2:42:40Ketaring.

2:42:41>> Perfect. Thank you.

2:42:42>> Um I'm totally opposed to the project

2:42:45also for u a number of reasons. The

2:42:49current church does not serve children

2:42:51and chooses not to serve children. And

2:42:54yet they want to saddle us down with and

2:42:56build um uh that housing project next to

2:43:00five schools and two daycarees. I guess

2:43:02possibly three daycarees and five

2:43:04schools. That makes absolutely no sense

2:43:07and actually sounds very quite insane.

2:43:10Um, I also happen to live across the

2:43:13street from a halfway house uh and have

2:43:16for about uh 10 years and there's two

2:43:18others nearby. It has diminished our

2:43:21neighborhood. Um, the owners are in it

2:43:25for profit only. They grudgingly mowed

2:43:27the weeds and have not installed escape

2:43:29windows for the residents in the

2:43:31basement.

2:43:33I reported it to the city on three

2:43:34different occasions and the city has

2:43:36done nothing nor investigated.

2:43:39one male resident terrorized the

2:43:42females, but the police could do nothing

2:43:44about it. That's a huge concern. Um,

2:43:48we've had the police, ambulances, and

2:43:50fire trucks almost monthly for years.

2:43:54Um, this currently,

2:43:57uh, after hearing everything, this

2:43:59currently sounds to me like an

2:44:01experiment at the cost of innocent

2:44:04children and a good neighborhood.

2:44:06Uh, in addition to that, I wanted to add

2:44:09that um, for nearly four years, I worked

2:44:13for the state of Idaho in a day

2:44:14treatment program serving juvenile

2:44:16offenders or youth criminals. It was not

2:44:20a prison. It was a a a a day treatment

2:44:23program. The facility was located in a

2:44:26business district. We had from six to

2:44:29eight offenders at a time, ranging from

2:44:32ages eight uh, 12 to 18. So, we had

2:44:36almost some near, excuse me, adults. Our

2:44:40staff was comprised of five full-time

2:44:42case workers, a full-time psychologist,

2:44:46a full-time teacher

2:44:49and assistant, and two to three people

2:44:51available for transport

2:44:54or for emergencies.

2:44:57The offenders also met with the

2:44:58psychiatrists weekly and they had group

2:45:02therapy after lunch daily.

2:45:05I transported students, served lunches,

2:45:07assisted in the classroom, and I was

2:45:09also the disciplinarian. I was

2:45:11overqualified for the job with six years

2:45:14of teaching experience and over 12 years

2:45:16in business. But the job gave me a major

2:45:18overview of troubled youth and adults.

2:45:21Bobby Moore was one of our clients.

2:45:24After all the services and therapies

2:45:26that Bobby received, shortly after

2:45:28completing our program, he shot and

2:45:31killed a police officer named Mark

2:45:33Stall. Stall's four little boys were

2:45:35orphaned instantly and his wife young

2:45:38wife widowed. The project sounds like an

2:45:41uh excuse me. Um with all of my

2:45:44experience and knowledge uh within

2:45:46churches

2:45:47>> and I need to I need to stop you. I'm

2:45:49sorry. Was it three minutes?

2:45:50>> Yeah. Yeah.

2:45:51>> I'm good because I've given you majority

2:45:54of it. Thank you.

2:45:54>> Thank you, ma'am. Appreciate it. All

2:45:56right. Brian Anderson, Sparky Stewart,

2:45:59and then Sydney Johnson.

2:46:06Uh thank you chairman and commissioner.

2:46:08My name uh is Brian Anderson. I live at

2:46:11709 uh North Stanley Street, Boisee.

2:46:15Uh this tonight is all about community.

2:46:18Uh this planning and zoning itself is a

2:46:21community effort. Uh this is our

2:46:24community engaging in um in community

2:46:27itself. Communities are held together by

2:46:30love.

2:46:31uh they are also fractured by fear. I'll

2:46:35remind this community

2:46:37uh that community is always and only

2:46:39maintained at the local level. I've

2:46:42heard the opposition uh not just tonight

2:46:45uh call the poor and vulnerable that

2:46:47this facility seeks to serve uh

2:46:50offenders and those people. The greatest

2:46:53sins of history are the result of fear,

2:46:55many of which could be named. But I'll

2:46:57remind this community tonight that

2:46:59redlinining districts happened at this

2:47:01level of community and was primarily

2:47:04driven by fear of those people. This is

2:47:07a complex project that intends to meet

2:47:09and address the complex challenge of

2:47:12catching the vulnerable who fall through

2:47:13the cracks. The opposition continues to

2:47:16voice concern as if this were an

2:47:18operation that it isn't.

2:47:21The opposition wants to protect the

2:47:23community from individuals who already

2:47:24live among us, many of whom are to be

2:47:26screened out of this operation.

2:47:30I recognize some of the expressed

2:47:32concerns uh so many of which have been

2:47:34addressed during this deferral period.

2:47:37Perfect love casts out fear. This

2:47:40project has shown again and again that

2:47:42it lands squarely inside the law and

2:47:44governing regulations. Imagine that if

2:47:46instead of imagining all the possible

2:47:48ways this could go wrong, this community

2:47:51embraced the yard signs insisting that

2:47:53all are welcome here and that love means

2:47:55love and embraced the project of

2:47:57extending community to the vulnerable

2:47:59and at risk and participated with this

2:48:02project to mentor and offer and share

2:48:04individual talents and blessings.

2:48:07Imagine all the opposition participating

2:48:09in helping to solve the complex problem

2:48:11of reducing criminal behavior by

2:48:13preemptively catching the at risk and

2:48:16bringing them into a loving and

2:48:19supportive community.

2:48:22The greatest acts of comm community uh

2:48:24the greatest acts of humanity leaned

2:48:26into their fear in the name of serving

2:48:28community and especially the others in

2:48:31community. Examples in our own community

2:48:34are St. Alonsis and St. Luke's hospitals

2:48:39named after the saints who risked grave

2:48:41illness and treated the sick during the

2:48:43worst plagues of history. Consider the

2:48:45abolishing of slavery against the odds

2:48:48of history. Perfect love casts out fear.

2:48:52The great challenges of history are

2:48:54overcome by active inspiration that is

2:48:57maintained inside the law, not by

2:49:00reducing risk all the way to zero.

2:49:03Fearless love is always a risk and

2:49:05always grants the greatest reward.

2:49:08I seem to stand alone tonight in

2:49:10encouraging this body to approve this

2:49:12project. Certainly more can and will be

2:49:15done to consider the concerns of this

2:49:18community.

2:49:19>> Please approve it.

2:49:20>> Thank you, sir. Appreciate it. Okay. Uh

2:49:22Sparky Stewart, Sydney Johnson, and then

2:49:24Kendra Rap.

2:49:30Okay. I don't have a

2:49:36I'm not online either. Okay. Make a note

2:49:40here. All right. Sydney Johnson. Kendra

2:49:43Rap.

2:49:46Okay. No Sydney Johnson either. Okay.

2:49:50Nobody online.

2:49:52Kendra Rap.

2:49:57Okay.

2:49:59What' you do?

2:50:01>> Okay.

2:50:04Uh Chelsea, is it bots boots?

2:50:10Okay. Uh Landon boots.

2:50:17Yeah.

2:50:19Uh Rhonda Noose Nuome. Okay, we have

2:50:23somebody here. Okay.

2:50:27Hi.

2:50:28>> Hi.

2:50:30My name is Rhonda Nuome and I live at

2:50:332708 North Rosedale Place

2:50:36and I live only less than a quarter mile

2:50:41from the proposed project.

2:50:44My culde-sac runs off settlers and it is

2:50:47the street that is running straight from

2:50:50Cole alongside this project. Um, I've

2:50:54already submitted u my formal written

2:50:57testimony for the record, but I'm

2:51:00standing here tonight to reinforce the

2:51:01denial of the con conditional use permit

2:51:06for the Mountain View Church of the

2:51:08Breven Nor dorm style housing and safety

2:51:11net program. Under Boise City Code,

2:51:15conditional use permit requires the

2:51:17applicant to prove the project will not

2:51:20cause any material negative impact on

2:51:23the surrounding areas. This pro this

2:51:26proposal fails that test for three

2:51:29critical reasons. Dangerous proximity.

2:51:34The site sits directly next near Cole

2:51:37and Eustic Library. Seven schools, two

2:51:40daycarees, and family parks. These are

2:51:43high traffic zones where neighborhood

2:51:45children walk and play and study every

2:51:48single day. Number two, flawed screening

2:51:52standards. The church admits they plan

2:51:54to evaluate individuals with sex offense

2:51:57records on a subjective case byase

2:52:00basis.

2:52:02Relying on an internal church committee

2:52:05to judge predatory inclinations is an

2:52:08unreliable safety standard and

2:52:11unacceptable gamble with our kids.

2:52:14Three, incompatible zoning stretch.

2:52:18A 100 bed institutional facility does

2:52:21not belong in a medium density

2:52:24residential neighborhood. It's places a

2:52:27massive experimental burden on an area

2:52:29built for families. For example, a

2:52:32request reszoning from a R2 to an MX1.

2:52:36R2 is strictly residential. An MX1

2:52:40designation strips away those

2:52:42neighborhood protections.

2:52:45As detailed in my written testimony, an

2:52:48unproven screening process for high-risk

2:52:50individuals in inherently threatens our

2:52:54community, public safety, and zoning

2:52:56integrity must come before this project.

2:52:59Please deny this permit. Thank you for

2:53:02your time.

2:53:03>> Thank you, ma'am. Okay. I can't quite

2:53:06make out the first name, but the last

2:53:07name is Patterson.

2:53:09Nope. No, not yours. Got you. We're

2:53:12good. But thank you.

2:53:15[laughter]

2:53:16Uh, last name Patterson. The first name

2:53:19starts with a G. Is that you? What is

2:53:22it?

2:53:23>> G R A H A M.

2:53:24>> That's looks right. Okay. Thank you,

2:53:26sir. Yeah.

2:53:28>> Uh, thank you very much. It's Graham

2:53:30Patterson living at 7313 West Kingston

2:53:33Drive. I want to speak very briefly

2:53:36against this uh reszone and most

2:53:41specifically we have heard two

2:53:42neighborhood associations and these are

2:53:45associations recognized by the city for

2:53:48representing the people who live in the

2:53:50area and both neighborhood associations

2:53:52in close proximity have spoken clearly

2:53:56uh against this concern they have about

2:53:59uh the uh Christian safety network

2:54:04academy and the the uh concerns it

2:54:07poses. The other thing I want to say is

2:54:09I think a lot of attention should be

2:54:12paid to the fact that Joanie Jodie

2:54:14Peterson Stiger felt it important enough

2:54:17to come and correct a material false

2:54:21statement in the proposal as it was

2:54:23presented and she felt that it was

2:54:25important enough that she took time out

2:54:27of a very very busy schedule and come

2:54:29clarify that and I worry having that

2:54:32mistake show up that there may be other

2:54:35similar mistakes in this proposal that

2:54:37haven't been aired correctly tonight and

2:54:40so please consider that and vote to deny

2:54:43at this time until the proposal has been

2:54:44corrected and rises to the level it

2:54:47should for uh consideration. Thank you

2:54:50very much.

2:54:50>> Thank you sir. Okay. Uh Sunny Cop

2:54:54followed by Sally Riley.

2:55:00>> Hi.

2:55:00>> Thank you. Uh I come today before you I

2:55:03have children. Can I get your name and

2:55:05address school? I'm sorry. your name and

2:55:07address real quick.

2:55:08>> My name is Sunny Cop C O P E.

2:55:10>> Thank you.

2:55:11>> I have children in the school in that

2:55:12area, but I do reside at 916 North Cove

2:55:15Colony Way in Eagle.

2:55:17>> And I wanted to come to you tonight and

2:55:19speak to you from experience, not

2:55:20judgment. I want to explain or ask the

2:55:24question, what is the experience with

2:55:25hands-on management and not just a

2:55:27ownership interest in this project of

2:55:29Mr. Neighbors? I want to tell you about

2:55:31my experience. Eight years of hands-on

2:55:33experience with cooperative corrective

2:55:35living. Some people come from domestic

2:55:37violence. Others come from prison. Some

2:55:39come from wealthy educated homes. I've

2:55:42had involvement in a daily bas basis,

2:55:44daily decisions, street outreach and

2:55:46crisis management. One thing we need to

2:55:49be clear about is that you don't always

2:55:50know if mental health is an issue and

2:55:52you can't discriminate against that. You

2:55:55can't ask for a HIPPA and we have not

2:55:57been provided any rules. I want to make

2:56:00sure that you guys understand I manage

2:56:02nine guys in a home with four layers of

2:56:04management. Extensive intake background

2:56:06checks, weekly group meetings, life

2:56:08skills in house education, weekly and

2:56:10random drug testing, including extensive

2:56:13background checks, and contracted with

2:56:15the Betty Ford Clinic, which has been

2:56:16doing recovery living since 1982.

2:56:20What happens when someone tries to

2:56:22commit suicide on the front lawn of this

2:56:23facility? How do we protect little

2:56:25Johnny who's walking to school to one of

2:56:27those five schools in that area? I have

2:56:29spent days addressing peeping toms who

2:56:32weren't who weren't registered sex

2:56:33offenders yet and my nights talking

2:56:35people out of ending their lives and

2:56:37choosing sobriety. I've held rape

2:56:39victims in my arms as they wish that

2:56:40they were dead. I've prayed with medical

2:56:42professionals who are struggling with

2:56:43prescription drug dependency and

2:56:45returning to treatment for the fourth or

2:56:46fifth time. the dual diagnosis guy whose

2:56:49psychosis prevents him from determining

2:56:51whether the men in black are coming from

2:56:53the ceiling are real or not. I want you

2:56:56all to understand that behavioral health

2:56:57is an important part of this. I want you

2:56:59all to understand active addiction is

2:57:01something that needs to be considered.

2:57:02And I want to know from you guys if you

2:57:04allow this to go through when does this

2:57:07become a recovery home? I think it's

2:57:09important to understand that with all of

2:57:13these young vulnerable adults, they've

2:57:15come from an unstable foundation. sex

2:57:17offenders, prolles, and a chop shop all

2:57:20in one location is not a good idea. I

2:57:23think you guys need to understand what

2:57:25happens when the sex offender meets the

2:57:27guy from general population. And if you

2:57:29think ID do is going to come in and set

2:57:31boundaries, they're not. They're going

2:57:32to call and ask if you have a bed and

2:57:34they're going to get them there as

2:57:35quickly as they can. I think it's

2:57:37important that you guys clarify and deny

2:57:40this project because this is a recovery

2:57:42house disguised as cooperative living.

2:57:45And I know because I did it. I worked

2:57:47within these parameters and I did it for

2:57:49a long time. I think it's important that

2:57:51you guys also consider as you make these

2:57:53decisions that all of these things have

2:57:56to be addressed. These rules have to be

2:57:58in place. There needs to be outside

2:57:59security, third party drug testing. We

2:58:01need hardcoded rules and protection for

2:58:04the five schools that are around there.

2:58:06What does it look like when an addict

2:58:07comes in? What quantifies an addict?

2:58:10What happens before

2:58:13when code enforcement gets out there?

2:58:15Before it h it lands on a kid's

2:58:17conscious.

2:58:18>> Thank you, ma'am. Appreciate you coming

2:58:19out. Okay, Sally Riley, followed by

2:58:22Robin Hibbs.

2:58:24Do I have a Sally Riley?

2:58:29>> Okay, thanks for the heads up. Let's

2:58:31see.

2:58:33Um,

2:58:35not online either. Okay. Uh, S. Robin

2:58:38Hibbs.

2:58:43>> Hello, my name is Robin Hibbs. I live at

2:58:443863 North Sawrass Place. And while I am

2:58:48not as prepared as some of these

2:58:50wonderful people have been, I would just

2:58:52like to um reiterate what Mr. Patterson

2:58:55mentioned with um Miss Stiger coming to

2:58:59speak about um feeling very concerned

2:59:01that something that was untrue was in

2:59:05the permanent record. I also would like

2:59:07it to be known that I live in Bay Hill

2:59:10Springs, which right now is h um

2:59:13enforcing HOA um guidelines against Mr.

2:59:17neighbors who purchased a home in our

2:59:20neighborhood and upon purchasing the

2:59:24home signed the CCNRs

2:59:27um saying that he had received and

2:59:29acknowledged the CCNRs that state that

2:59:33homes in our neighborhood are only

2:59:35allowed to be single family use

2:59:37dwellings. He is currently um excuse me,

2:59:42these guidelines explicitly restrict

2:59:44properties to single family residential

2:59:45use. The property is currently being

2:59:48operated as a multi-tenant rental for

2:59:50unrelated individuals which directly

2:59:53violates the single family dwelling

2:59:55clause. Two of these residents happen to

2:59:58be sex offenders and as such our HOA is

3:00:02actively taking enforcement action

3:00:04against Mr. Neighbors and the home. I

3:00:08just wanted that to be put on the public

3:00:10records so that you are aware that he is

3:00:13he is has wonderful intentions as some

3:00:17of you have said and as has been spoken

3:00:20here but I'm concerned about the

3:00:24actuality and the

3:00:27um clarity in his I don't want to say

3:00:29dis the clarity and understanding of

3:00:33what is happening. Thank you for your

3:00:36time.

3:00:36>> Thank you ma'am.

3:00:39Okay, Rebecca, is it a ringing? And then

3:00:42Kelly Divine.

3:00:49>> Rebecca.

3:00:51>> All right.

3:00:52>> And I live at 8074 West Ends Brook. Uh

3:00:56oh,

3:00:59we're seeing. Okay. Um, I had a lot more

3:01:02written, but I'm not going to do that

3:01:04because I've listened to what everybody

3:01:05said tonight and have a whole new

3:01:07dangerous list of things I want to say.

3:01:10So, uh, currently this proposal lacks

3:01:13adequate measures to ensure the safety

3:01:14and security of the surrounding

3:01:16neighborhood. There are no outline plans

3:01:18to increase local police protection to

3:01:20my knowledge

3:01:22um and [clears throat] to manage the

3:01:24potential spillover effects given the

3:01:26proximity to the surrounding

3:01:29not the schools Walmart parking lot. We

3:01:33have a plasma spot there. We have a

3:01:36liquor store and that parking lot's

3:01:39dangerous at night.

3:01:41these people who might have a relapse of

3:01:44an addiction or have other disorders,

3:01:47they can find a way to get those things

3:01:49dealt with right there in that parking

3:01:51lot. There's also a library right across

3:01:54the street, and that library is a great

3:01:56place to hang out when you don't want to

3:01:57hang out at your dorm. So, they're

3:02:00certainly okay to be there. I'm not

3:02:02saying that, but I'm saying these are

3:02:04people who might be at high risk of

3:02:07committing other crimes. In my letter, I

3:02:09mentioned the fact that there's a

3:02:11reaffense percentage that is much higher

3:02:14for sex offenders. I don't have the

3:02:16exact details, but it was in the letter.

3:02:19[clears throat]

3:02:20If this is approved, the on-site manager

3:02:23oversight appears limited and a to a

3:02:25single individual. Um, what binding

3:02:28assurances do we have the capacity will

3:02:30not be artificially expanded

3:02:33such as through the addition of bunk

3:02:34beds? We know how many bedrooms there

3:02:36are, but how many beds are there going

3:02:37to be in there? Is there anybody going

3:02:39to be overseeing that and making sure

3:02:42that they're living within the means

3:02:44that they set up? Um,

3:02:47they have no ability to help addicts or

3:02:49people with mental illness, but we know

3:02:52that these people, a lot of them have

3:02:53had hard lives and they are going to

3:02:56perhaps have some mental problems. All

3:02:58of us could have mental problems um or

3:03:01physical problems. They get in a car

3:03:02accident and they're disabled. Are they

3:03:04evicted? I mean, what happens to those

3:03:06people if they have a mental lapse? Um,

3:03:09I don't know. None of that's addressed.

3:03:11So, the last thing I want to say is that

3:03:14the police,

3:03:15I don't think there's any increase in

3:03:17police uh protection planned. We will

3:03:20have additional issues there, traffic

3:03:23and whatnot. The schools each make their

3:03:26own decisions about whether to lock down

3:03:29or not if there's police activity in the

3:03:31area.

3:03:33I can just imagine at 3:00 in the

3:03:35afternoon there's a lockdown. So, I want

3:03:38you guys to think hard, please, about

3:03:40how this is going to impact the kids,

3:03:42their parents, the neighbors, um just

3:03:45the entire community and and Walmart

3:03:48that's going to enable them to get back

3:03:50into some behaviors that probably got

3:03:53them in trouble in the first place. Uh

3:03:55thank you. So, I'm asking that you deny

3:03:57this tonight. Thanks.

3:03:59>> Okay. Thank you, uh Kelly Divine.

3:04:06And I don't have Kelly online either.

3:04:10One more time. Kelly Divine. No, Kelly

3:04:11Divine.

3:04:15Okay. All right. So, I have nobody else

3:04:18on the signup sheet. So, this is the

3:04:20point when I would open it up. If you

3:04:22have not testified, you wish to testify,

3:04:24and really specifically also if you have

3:04:26any any information that we haven't

3:04:28heard, that would be great. But if you

3:04:31don't want to testify, you're not, you

3:04:33know, there's no pressing need to.

3:04:34Anybody in the crowd that would like to

3:04:36come on up. If you are also wanting to

3:04:38and you haven't yet, you can come up to

3:04:40the front row. And I know we're we've

3:04:43got some folks online. We're going to

3:04:44get to them next.

3:04:46Hi, good evening, commissioners.

3:04:50Chairman Danley, thank you. Thanks for

3:04:51your service. Um, my name is Ike

3:04:53Stafford. I live at 7101 West Folk Drive

3:04:56in Boisee. I'm here tonight for the

3:04:59children who walk past the site every

3:05:00day, especially the refugee families at

3:05:03Morley Nelson who have fewer resources

3:05:06to speak up for themselves or to change

3:05:08their routes. And um you know, I don't I

3:05:11don't understand a lot about this

3:05:12process and I don't understand exactly

3:05:14what uh what latitude you have as as a

3:05:17commission. Um I've done a little bit of

3:05:19research, but the way I'm look the way I

3:05:21I viewing what's going on here tonight

3:05:23is we have um we have BSU dorms. That's

3:05:27the vision that um that the applicant

3:05:29has is BSU dorms where there's not

3:05:31conflict, where there's not um there's

3:05:34not drug use, there's not parolees,

3:05:37there's no sex offenders there. BSU

3:05:40dorms is kind of the the the image I

3:05:42think the vision that he has. And then

3:05:44the community kind of feels like there

3:05:46are it's going to be full of sex

3:05:49offenders and parole ees and uh people

3:05:51who are having mental health crisis. And

3:05:54so

3:05:56I think while I personally think the

3:05:58mission of um what the applicant wants

3:06:00to achieve is is wonderful I think um

3:06:04without some some safeguards in place

3:06:06inevitably and again I don't know what

3:06:08latitude you have but without safeguards

3:06:10in place then inevitably it will become

3:06:13um what happens down the road a few

3:06:15years with the successor uh when the

3:06:18vision of the ministry because right now

3:06:20as I understand it the um the

3:06:22application process when somebody's

3:06:24denied application, it's based on

3:06:26whether they are at risk, what I heard

3:06:27in the testimony tonight from the

3:06:29applicant. If they are at risk to um

3:06:32jeopardize the the mission, then then

3:06:35they're not going to be admitted. What

3:06:37happens when the mission changes or what

3:06:40happens when um

3:06:42what happens when the successor says or

3:06:44there's a difficult circumstance

3:06:46extenduating circumstance where there's

3:06:47an individual who might not typically

3:06:50qualify but they don't have anywhere

3:06:51else to stay and they end up being there

3:06:53and then the children are walking every

3:06:56day to school there and from my

3:06:59perspective right idea wrong location I

3:07:02mean it's not like it's just more Nelson

3:07:04and refugee uh children that's refugee

3:07:06families there are several schools

3:07:08there. It's this is a really unique

3:07:10position to put something like this

3:07:13where children are walking on a regular

3:07:15basis. So I just and I just ask you to

3:07:19whatever you have latitude to do to to

3:07:21create some sort of um some sort of

3:07:24standards or something so that so that

3:07:26there is safety protocols in place not

3:07:29approve this until there's some safety

3:07:31protocols in place about who is admitted

3:07:33so we can protect the children. Thank

3:07:35you.

3:07:36Thank you, sir. Okay. Does anybody else

3:07:38want to testify? One up.

3:07:42>> You get the rare double dip.

3:07:47>> Yeah. Uh, good evening. My name is

3:07:49Jonathan Melby. My address is 2924 North

3:07:52Maywood Avenue and I'm speaking

3:07:54personally.

3:07:57When commissioner asked about imposing

3:07:59conditions, I understood staff to say

3:08:01the zoning code has nothing that goes

3:08:04above and beyond state law.

3:08:07But the code lets commissioners attach

3:08:09additional conditions to a conditional

3:08:11use permit, including quote more

3:08:14restrictive standards than those

3:08:16generally required.

3:08:18The limit is that conditions must be

3:08:20reasonably related and proportionate to

3:08:23the impacts.

3:08:26I could not find, and I'm not an expert,

3:08:29but I have been swimming in this for two

3:08:31years. I could not find anything in the

3:08:35code that prohibits a cap. So, I would

3:08:38respectfully ask that the commission

3:08:42have staff clarify what in the code

3:08:44prevents it.

3:08:46And if there's any concern around an

3:08:49accurate answer there, please ask the

3:08:52city attorney to look in and confirm it.

3:08:56If there's no way to limit scale, that

3:08:59bears on whether impacts can be

3:09:02mitigated to the maximum extent

3:09:04practicable.

3:09:06Thank you.

3:09:08>> Thank you, sir. Okay, I think I got you

3:09:10over here. Anybody else in in the

3:09:13chambers who wish to testify, please

3:09:14come up come on up and then

3:09:17we're going to go to the folks online.

3:09:19>> Mr. Chair, commissioners, my name is

3:09:21Anna Nunees. I reside at 8723 West

3:09:24Steinbrook Drive in Boisee 83704.

3:09:27I would like to address pages 8, nine,

3:09:30and 10 of the application. We've already

3:09:32heard from Interfaith Sanctuary that

3:09:34they were not on board with Mr.

3:09:36Neighbors and the Christian Safety net

3:09:38program. Casey Family Program states,

3:09:40"We are not endorsing this one way or

3:09:43another. Idaho Department of Corrections

3:09:45says they would not support this

3:09:48program. Gem friends turned down

3:09:51collaboration with Mr. Neighbors. Idaho

3:09:54Department of Health and Welfare stated,

3:09:56"We in no way, shape, or form are a part

3:09:58of any kind of planning." Add to this

3:10:02Idaho Department of [clears throat]

3:10:03Labor, Boisey Rescue Mission, and the

3:10:05STEP program, all who have no agreements

3:10:07with Christian Safety net. They do not

3:10:10know Steve Neighbors. They did not know

3:10:12they were listed in this presentation or

3:10:15proposal. That makes seven organizations

3:10:18so far. This calls into question every

3:10:21statement and purported fact as well as

3:10:24negating the entire exit plan for

3:10:27residents who don't work out in this

3:10:28proposal. Moreover, the applicant

3:10:31certified to the city that the

3:10:33information provided was true and

3:10:35accurate and acknowledged that

3:10:38inaccurate information could result in a

3:10:40rejection of the application or

3:10:43revocation of a wrongfully issued

3:10:45permit. Quietly deleting the names now

3:10:48would not cure the problem. It would

3:10:50materially change the operational

3:10:53foundation on which staff recommended

3:10:55this approval. I therefore ask the

3:10:58commission to deny the cup for failure

3:11:00of proof or to continue the hearing,

3:11:03keep the record open, require a sworn

3:11:06and redlined correction from the

3:11:08applicant, obtain direct written

3:11:11confirmation from every claimed partner,

3:11:14and require staff to reconsider its

3:11:16recommendation. The public should then

3:11:18be allowed to respond to the corrected

3:11:20record. The commission should not make

3:11:22findings about neighborhood impacts,

3:11:25screening, or safety based on

3:11:27organizational relationships that the

3:11:30named organizations themselves deny

3:11:33exist.

3:11:35Thank you.

3:11:36>> Okay. Thank you, ma'am. Okay. Uh,

3:11:39anybody else in chambers? Last call.

3:11:44Come on up. We got a couple of you.

3:11:45You're going to have to battle

3:11:49or not. You don't have to actually

3:11:50battle. It's okay.

3:11:55[laughter]

3:11:55>> Okay. Could be a dance battle. Maybe you

3:11:57got some

3:11:58>> wicked skills.

3:11:59>> I have written uh testimony uh that I

3:12:02have sent in already and um my husband

3:12:05really didn't want me to testify in

3:12:07person and my name is Crystal Smith. Do

3:12:10I have to give my address? Because

3:12:12>> I need to give a a address.

3:12:14>> I will give a address. 7487

3:12:17West Solano Drive.

3:12:18>> Thank you. Um, and the reason I'm

3:12:21concerned about GI was concerned about

3:12:22giving my address was because um, I've

3:12:25been involved in this like a lot of us

3:12:28for a little over two years researching

3:12:31trying to find out who you know uh, one

3:12:34of the questions that was asked at the

3:12:36neighborhood meeting was why Mr.

3:12:39Neighbors said something to the effect

3:12:40of why do people think this is a

3:12:42pedophile church? So I've actively

3:12:47looked at the history, you know, because

3:12:49a lot of times you can look at history

3:12:51to find out what you need to find out.

3:12:54And they are very connected to

3:12:58several Bethl ministries. Iron sharpens

3:13:00iron. Um, I've even spoken to

3:13:03congregants that went to the church that

3:13:05said that they traded families for

3:13:09felons and that they started bringing

3:13:11the sex offenders in at 8:00 church time

3:13:14and then they started incorporating him

3:13:16in and that they had left and they even

3:13:18tore out the children's playground.

3:13:20They're they have a from what I

3:13:23understand from this um

3:13:26document that they have an agreement

3:13:28with ID do for the church. So my concern

3:13:31is that if they do bring in children,

3:13:35you know, aged out foster kids, even if

3:13:39they don't have sex offenders in the

3:13:41dormatory, the church has sex offenders

3:13:45in it. They they have sex offenders

3:13:47attending the church, which is in close

3:13:48proximity to those very traumatized

3:13:52kids. Um, I'm very concerned about that

3:13:55as well as all of the neighbor kids. But

3:13:57the the fact of the matter is in my

3:14:01opinion I have to say that this

3:14:04organization, this church and what I

3:14:08believe the intent is for is to take

3:14:11care of those folks that they're they

3:14:13have a mission for. That is my opinion.

3:14:15And their mission is for sex offenders.

3:14:18I am the person that they moved sex

3:14:21offenders right next to me at Bay Hill

3:14:23Springs. I am that neighbor. My husband

3:14:27and I have lived there for 33 years. We

3:14:30actually had our honeymoon in that home.

3:14:33It was very difficult. I cried for a

3:14:35week. I take care of grandchildren. And

3:14:38the balcony to the house that Mr.

3:14:40Neighbors purchased and they put sex

3:14:44offenders in that offended against young

3:14:47children. The balcony overlooks where we

3:14:49used to swing our granddaughter.

3:14:52I gardened with my granddaughter and I

3:14:54have a new baby granddaughter. We had to

3:14:57leave our home to make sure that we felt

3:15:00safe.

3:15:02Um, and that we were able to keep our

3:15:05our children, our grandchildren safe. I

3:15:08didn't even feel safe having my

3:15:1031year-old daughter come to our house.

3:15:13So, we had to leave that neighborhood.

3:15:16So, if if they're trying to say they're

3:15:19not going to put sex offenders in there,

3:15:21I

3:15:23>> I am I have a hard time belieing that.

3:15:25>> I appreciate you sticking around and

3:15:26testifying. Okay. Is there anybody else

3:15:29in chambers that come on up

3:15:33and then we'll go to online for a minute

3:15:34and if there's anybody else, we'll try

3:15:36one more shot.

3:15:38>> Hello, sir.

3:15:39>> Uh my name is Sean Amodor. I'm at 7736

3:15:42West Bay Hill Street and uh I'm actually

3:15:45uh one of the offenders that a lot of

3:15:47this community is afraid of. Um I came

3:15:51up here to just make known a face. Um

3:15:57I just want this community to know that

3:15:59uh there are a lot of people who have

3:16:01made mistakes in the past and uh there's

3:16:04nothing that we can do to change our

3:16:05past. Um

3:16:08but uh we have uh a strong hope uh in

3:16:13our future. Uh

3:16:19it's really it's really hard to live in

3:16:21a community that absolutely hates you.

3:16:24Um as is uh seen here in this community.

3:16:27Um, and it it's uh it's difficult

3:16:32because I can understand that there's a

3:16:34fear um for the kind of people that uh

3:16:38you see on the news um you know it only

3:16:41takes once, right? It only takes one

3:16:43occurrence. My kids walking down the

3:16:45road and it only takes one occurrence

3:16:47and um and it's completely

3:16:49understandable. Your fears are are not

3:16:52um

3:16:54unfounded. Uh

3:16:57but there there are um there are a lot

3:16:59of things in place. Um I've I've been

3:17:02through the prison system. I've been for

3:17:04a parole board. I have a parole officer

3:17:06over me currently. Um I take lie

3:17:09detector tests once a year. And uh we

3:17:12have to pass them or you go back to

3:17:14prison. I've been on parole for three

3:17:16years now. Um I've been doing great on

3:17:18parole. I'm very involved in my church.

3:17:21Um I'm the worship drummer there. I've

3:17:22given sermons there. Um I am very

3:17:25communitydriven there and uh I this

3:17:28church has a heart after people who are

3:17:31uh have been broken who have experienced

3:17:35difficulty in life and uh there's there

3:17:39needs to be a place for that that kind

3:17:41of healing and um really what we're

3:17:45arguing about is how to understand the

3:17:47heart of a person and it's really

3:17:49difficult to uh come up with a set of

3:17:53interview questions to discern that.

3:17:55It's difficult to um know if someone's

3:17:58going to reaffend or not. And it's

3:18:00difficult to know um these these kinds

3:18:02of things. And so we're we're we're

3:18:04trying to create a robust system to uh

3:18:07minimize that and and to make known uh

3:18:10the character and conduct of a person.

3:18:12And um

3:18:15all I know is I I that the heart of the

3:18:17church at Mountain View is is um is

3:18:20incredible. and it has become um

3:18:24a a very rare welcoming place uh for for

3:18:28someone of mine who who has an offense

3:18:30like mine. And um

3:18:34I know that there's a lot of uh anger

3:18:36toward uh this community, a lot of fear.

3:18:39Um it's it's um

3:18:43it's hard to say that it's unfounded.

3:18:45And I know it's not directly directed

3:18:47toward me, but it's directed toward

3:18:49populists who have done things similar

3:18:50to what I have done.

3:18:52>> Um, and all I can do is just continue to

3:18:55just kind of be loving for you guys.

3:18:57>> All right. Thank you. Thank you, sir.

3:18:58Thank you for testifying. Appreciate it.

3:19:00Okay. Is there anybody else in chambers?

3:19:03>> All right. We'll come back just in case.

3:19:05All right. Let's go to the folks online

3:19:06here.

3:19:08And first up, I have a hand is uh Pam

3:19:11Romer.

3:19:16Good evening.

3:19:18>> Hello. Go ahead.

3:19:20>> One moment. I'll pull up my paper.

3:19:22Good evening. Um, a big thank you to

3:19:25Gemma for making sure my written

3:19:26testimony was included. I hope the

3:19:29members had a chance to read it. My hope

3:19:30was to raise questions and provide

3:19:32suggestions that could be considered for

3:19:34discussion by members.

3:19:36Um Pam Romer, 7458 West Tottenham Lane,

3:19:39Boise, Idaho 83704, right across from

3:19:42where it's going up. I do understand the

3:19:44need to provide more affordable housing

3:19:46and assisting others, but there are

3:19:48still so many questions and still a lack

3:19:49of transparency. This did not help build

3:19:52trust nor provide adequate solutions for

3:19:54the concerns of neighbors for the safety

3:19:56of their neighborhoods and the potential

3:19:57residents. The letter of intent does not

3:20:00detail the expertise or qualifications

3:20:02of the employees or what kind of

3:20:04training is provided for both employees

3:20:05and residents who will be tasked with

3:20:07becoming resident dorm leaders and

3:20:09members of a security team. I am opposed

3:20:11to this project as it is again

3:20:13presented. I am asking for a denial of a

3:20:16large unproven project that keeps

3:20:17morphing into something different every

3:20:19time. This is not the place to obtain a

3:20:21blanket approval when critical details

3:20:23are in flux flux and changes are

3:20:26constant. This project still lacks

3:20:28essential details. Details that include

3:20:30plans for the safety of the surrounding

3:20:31neighborhoods and and transparency.

3:20:34Our neighbors had great written and oral

3:20:36testimonies for denial or deferral. I

3:20:38have a few suggestions included in my

3:20:40points. Point two for my letter. Safety

3:20:43plans for the surrounding neighbors.

3:20:45Safety net academy could develop a good

3:20:47neighbor policy and off-campus codes of

3:20:49conduct like most colleges. My

3:20:52suggestions are perhaps Boisee City,

3:20:53Mountain View Church, and Westb

3:20:55Neighborhood Associations could work

3:20:57together to address concerns and

3:20:58encourage community engagement by

3:21:00drafting similar safety policies similar

3:21:02to what was developed with the interface

3:21:04sanctuary. Safety net could agree to a

3:21:06neighborhood association point person to

3:21:09contact management about issues and

3:21:10possible resolutions.

3:21:12Schedule regular monthly or quarterly

3:21:14meetings between the academy management

3:21:16and neighbors to talk about concerns.

3:21:18Safety net could develop. security and

3:21:21pedestrian safety policies with input

3:21:22from the neighborhoods and law

3:21:24enforcement. Safety net academy could

3:21:26provide a for a firm limit on the number

3:21:29of sex offenders permitted in the dorms.

3:21:32Another point one, there is no

3:21:33accessible parking for the women's dorm.

3:21:35This is seen from the site plan version

3:21:37two. They will have to walk further and

3:21:39past the other buildings to safely reach

3:21:41their unit. Safety net academy could

3:21:44place blue light emergency phones

3:21:45throughout their campus and a few

3:21:47locations in the nearby neighborhoods

3:21:49just like they do on other educational

3:21:50campuses. Point seven concerning

3:21:53security personnel. This is from page

3:21:5628. Um they said a 24-hour on-site

3:21:59property manage manager is responsible

3:22:01for responding immediately to

3:22:03emergencies. What would this look like?

3:22:05Boy City could require a detailed

3:22:07security and operational blueprints for

3:22:09approval by all concerned. Safety net

3:22:11academy management could share their

3:22:13metrics and feedback with the city

3:22:14council, other agencies like the police,

3:22:16pearl officers, social workers, Idaho

3:22:19department of labor, Idaho department of

3:22:20health and welfare, the Idaho Department

3:22:22of Corrections, etc. Other organizations

3:22:24involved in the neighborhood and the

3:22:26neighborhood associations. And if this

3:22:28is not a prison, then what does security

3:22:30do? Point eight. Will the residents who

3:22:33are suited for this work on the security

3:22:34team?

3:22:36>> Thank you. Appreciate you.

3:22:39>> Appreciate you being on. Okay. Um,

3:22:41anybody else online who wish to testify?

3:22:43I don't have any other hands.

3:22:47Okay.

3:22:49Seeing none, I'll turn it over to

3:22:51chambers one more time. Anybody in

3:22:53chambers want to testify?

3:22:55We're good. Okay. Last call for anybody

3:22:58online.

3:23:02Okay. Um well before we conclude the

3:23:07close the public testimony portion I

3:23:09want to make sure to get a couple things

3:23:12on the record um and I wanted to give

3:23:15staff the opportunity to explain a

3:23:17couple things. One was the very first

3:23:19well one of the very first folks that we

3:23:21um heard from uh this was from Jennifer

3:23:24Tessmer. had to do with some of the

3:23:28partnership arrangements and last minute

3:23:30kind of information and that sort of

3:23:31thing and staff want to give a ch staff

3:23:34an opportunity to comment on that how we

3:23:37should consider that or not consider

3:23:39that

3:23:42>> Mr. Chair and commissioners um are you

3:23:44speaking about like some of the talk

3:23:46about the operations plan and partners?

3:23:48Yes, that was that was specifically with

3:23:51respect to the request to keep the

3:23:54hearing open and and as it related to

3:23:57some of the different agencies and

3:23:58partners and some of the mis potential

3:24:01misunderstandings and misstatements and

3:24:04that sort of thing that was made.

3:24:07>> Uh Mr. Chair, so I mean I you could ask

3:24:10the applicant for some clarification on

3:24:12some of those points as well. Um, but I

3:24:14think tonight we're looking at the

3:24:17purview of a co-ousing use and a land

3:24:20use decision. Um, operations plans on a

3:24:24private uh program may change over time

3:24:27and is not necessarily part of what

3:24:30we're looking at tonight.

3:24:32>> Okay. Thank you. The other question had

3:24:33to do um with the development agreement

3:24:37and that was uh something else that was

3:24:39requested or mentioned a handful of

3:24:41times. Can you discuss the role of a

3:24:43development agreement with respect to

3:24:45this application?

3:24:46>> Uh Mr. Chair, so because this body

3:24:49already voted on the reszone in the

3:24:52January hearing, um there's no

3:24:54opportunity for this body to add a

3:24:56development agreement. However, that's

3:24:58something that city council could look

3:24:59at um under their resone review.

3:25:03>> Okay. Thank you very much. All right.

3:25:06Um, with that, we'll go ahead and turn

3:25:09it back over to the applicant uh for

3:25:12rebuttal. You'll have up to five

3:25:13minutes.

3:25:15>> Yeah. Could uh you bring up the uh

3:25:18Jesse, could you bring up the uh

3:25:20website?

3:25:23Um, first, I think Jod has given a

3:25:26misinterpretation that we didn't talk

3:25:29and that she didn't think that this is a

3:25:31positive thing. So, I wanted Jod to

3:25:33clarify that her issue was I thought it

3:25:35was a mutual reciprocation and she said,

3:25:38"No, we could we I couldn't give money

3:25:41on a 30-day kickout." So, I want to make

3:25:45sure Jod clarifies the record that we

3:25:47did talk and she did see speak positive

3:25:51of safety net.

3:25:52>> I think at this point I just need you to

3:25:54address us and so this is closing. So,

3:25:57so I'd like to I'd like to go to uh

3:26:00pull up the read the full submittal.

3:26:07I think it's on page eight or nine.

3:26:13Uh I want to go to the marketing

3:26:15department. The marketing.

3:26:19>> So, so this isn't I didn't go out to

3:26:22make partnerships with people. I went

3:26:23out and searched the market for what

3:26:25need was not being met. And so I've

3:26:28listed, so if you go down,

3:26:32I've listed on I think it's page

3:26:35uh nine,

3:26:40we were concerned about, well, so what

3:26:42do we do with people that are under

3:26:44community supervision? So, these are the

3:26:46people that I spoke to and I have the

3:26:48names of people we spoke to and they're

3:26:50they're referring to people that I don't

3:26:52I never heard their names, but I've got

3:26:54the names of the people I talked to in

3:26:56the market research. So, I'd like to go

3:26:58to uh

3:26:59>> ah we can't come on. We've been doing so

3:27:01well.

3:27:02>> So, I'd like to go to uh number five

3:27:08department correction.

3:27:10I list the names of the per two people I

3:27:12talked to. Karen Clifford

3:27:16and Diana Drake. I don't know who this

3:27:18gym guy is. And who was with me was Don

3:27:22and Ray. And so we we went to say, well,

3:27:25what can we do? Can we have uh a mixed

3:27:28dorm? Uh what do we do with somebody?

3:27:31And would you guys help us sort through

3:27:34somebody that is on supervision? Can we

3:27:37can we get further information of

3:27:39whether or not there's somebody we

3:27:41should work with? Should we work with

3:27:43somebody like Shawn or or not? And

3:27:45what's the process? So, contact Karen

3:27:50Clifford [clears throat] and Diana

3:27:51Drake. Don't just call somebody up and

3:27:53say, "Well, I don't know neighbors."

3:27:56So, then I want to go to page 10.

3:28:01Interfaith number 10.

3:28:05Is Is Jody here?

3:28:10So, here's Jody had a problem with the

3:28:14first one that said we would reciprocate

3:28:16and what we were willing to do was pay

3:28:1830-day if somebody had to be removed

3:28:20immediately. We've agreed to pay 30 days

3:28:23of rent at a hotel or someplace

3:28:27including if uh interfaith sanctuary.

3:28:29She said she couldn't take money that

3:28:31way. So she's not denying she didn't

3:28:34talk to me and she's not denying that

3:28:36she didn't say positive things. She's

3:28:38denying that. What I did make a mistake

3:28:40in there is I could give her $500 and

3:28:42she said that would that would break her

3:28:46how she gets grants. So there's a mis I

3:28:49think there's a misunderstanding. If you

3:28:52go through every one of these names,

3:28:53this is the market research. I give the

3:28:55names of the people I talk to and I talk

3:28:57to those people.

3:29:00So I wasn't trying to create a

3:29:01partnership. I was trying to just do a

3:29:03market research.

3:29:05So

3:29:08see

3:29:11and it's I mean that's the problem with

3:29:13this. It's just been distortion after

3:29:14distortion. And so we can't we can't do

3:29:18anything because people want to invent

3:29:21distortions. This isn't a recovery site.

3:29:24This isn't this isn't a bunch of sex

3:29:26offenders. We do want to know what to do

3:29:29with Shawn. Do we let him come to

3:29:32church? Do we let him try to improve his

3:29:36economic sight? What do we do to to to

3:29:40is his repentance genuine? Are we going

3:29:43to be Pharisees and say to the sinner

3:29:45that pounds his chest, "No, go away. You

3:29:47have you have no right to be redeemed.

3:29:49You have redeemed. You have no right to

3:29:51live amongst us. Go somewhere else."

3:29:54That's what you hear throughout Boisey.

3:29:58Not we love the idea, but not here.

3:30:01This is the perfect place for zoning.

3:30:04This is a church that has a heart for

3:30:06broken people that have their teeth

3:30:08missing that may not uh you know that

3:30:12lives on social security

3:30:15you know that uh sleeps in their cars.

3:30:18Um we care about people and can but

3:30:22safety net academy is a little different

3:30:25than the church. It's if people want to

3:30:28if people want to

3:30:31self-improve, if they if they have a job

3:30:33and if they're already in they've

3:30:35already shown that um they're serious

3:30:38about their education, then

3:30:40>> I got to stop. Yeah,

3:30:41>> there we are.

3:30:42>> Same kind of thing. I got a time limit.

3:30:44I got to enforce it. Sorry about that.

3:30:46Okay,

3:30:48at this point we go ahead and close the

3:30:50hearing and the item is going to be

3:30:52before the commission. Uh, I think I'm

3:30:54gonna have us take five. I think it'd be

3:30:56wise for us to get our heads around this

3:30:59and then come back and go from there.

3:31:01So, let's reconvene in about five

3:31:03minutes.

3:31:08Okay, let's go ahead and reconvene.

3:31:21All right.

3:31:30All right. Before we go into a decision,

3:31:33I just want I think I'm going to take

3:31:36the opportunity to speak on behalf of I

3:31:38think everybody here uh and just say

3:31:41thank you and and their amount of

3:31:43letters uh and testimony that was

3:31:46submitted to us and their packet and all

3:31:49the way up until this afternoon. I think

3:31:51we got a late one that came in. Um is

3:31:55pretty powerful and and pretty telling

3:31:57of just how engaged the residents of our

3:32:00wonderful city are and obviously you

3:32:03being here tonight on the eve of an

3:32:04election. Um and so we greatly

3:32:07appreciate everybody's time and energy

3:32:11um and commitment to the betterment of

3:32:13the city and so we appreciate that very

3:32:15very much. All right, commissioners.

3:32:19Before us is a conditional use permit

3:32:23and included in that are the four key uh

3:32:27points that need to be evaluated. This

3:32:29is item number three cup24-46.

3:32:34This is a co-ousing application on 2.03

3:32:39acres.

3:32:41The item is before the commission.

3:32:44>> Mr. Chair,

3:32:45>> Mr. Torres,

3:32:46>> I am not prepared to make a motion.

3:32:48>> Okay. And I wonder if you will indulge

3:32:50me in making some remarks to kind of try

3:32:52to set the table for the discussion.

3:32:53>> We can do that, too.

3:32:55>> Um, so this is a hard one. I mean, this

3:33:00project has come further than it was

3:33:01last time we heard it. Is better in many

3:33:03ways than it was the last time we heard

3:33:04it. Um, this is also tangental to my day

3:33:08what I do in my day job working with

3:33:10some of these same populations. And I

3:33:12well know there's not enough low-income

3:33:14housing. There's not enough enough

3:33:16housing that is uh accessible to people

3:33:19with criminal records. Certainly not

3:33:21with people with for people who are on

3:33:22the sex offender registry. Um there's

3:33:25just not enough housing for people who

3:33:26need it regardless of of their

3:33:28situation.

3:33:29Um staff has been adamant that we have

3:33:32to consider this as a land use decision.

3:33:34Um you know, I have a lot of concerns

3:33:36about the operations prop uh listed in

3:33:39the staff report and and we've heard

3:33:41about tonight. Um, I just don't know if

3:33:44we're able to consider those things. You

3:33:46know, I was a no last time we heard this

3:33:48item, but I I just I'm struggling with

3:33:50it. And I'm just going to be honest with

3:33:52all of you. You've all made very clear

3:33:54your concerns. We hear you. I want you

3:33:57to hear that regardless of what we

3:33:59decide tonight, we hear you. Um, I don't

3:34:02know if this is the right body to decide

3:34:04something like this. Um, it it's it's a

3:34:08crossing of so many different factors in

3:34:10our society.

3:34:12And you know, being honest with you,

3:34:14our society does not deal with potential

3:34:17lawb breaking. Well, we we we can't

3:34:20anticipate someone's going to break the

3:34:21law and enforce the law before they do

3:34:23it. Um, you know, we do have laws in our

3:34:26state. We do have laws in our city. Some

3:34:28of them are better than others. Um,

3:34:30they're ever changing.

3:34:32Um, you know, this is a complicated

3:34:35project. Um, and I'll be honest with

3:34:38you, as of this moment, I don't know how

3:34:40I'm going to come down on it. Having

3:34:42said that, I would urge the commission,

3:34:44you know, a lot of the people who

3:34:45testified urged us to defer this. We've

3:34:48already deferred this once. I think we

3:34:50owe it to the community, to the

3:34:53applicant, to the potential residents of

3:34:55this facility, to the neighborhood to

3:34:57either approve or deny this tonight.

3:35:00That would be my my suggestion and

3:35:02request. And with that, I will uh I will

3:35:06shut up.

3:35:07>> Okay. Uh Commissioner Tur, appreciate

3:35:09everything that you just said. Is there

3:35:10any specific issue uh about the

3:35:15application or with respect to the CUP

3:35:17that you think we should kick off our

3:35:20discussion on?

3:35:24You know,

3:35:26there's just so many factors here that I

3:35:28don't I don't think I could pick one. I

3:35:29mean, there's a lot of things. I mean,

3:35:31you know, we can't set a maximum uh cap

3:35:35for the number of people who would be

3:35:36allowed at this place, generally

3:35:37speaking. You know, we're bound by what

3:35:39the code allows. Um, you know, so we can

3:35:43discuss that, but I I'm not sure really

3:35:44what we can do in that regard. The

3:35:46concerns about, you know, traffic safety

3:35:48and this the proximity to schools and

3:35:50and pedestrian safety and and the bus

3:35:53stops, those are all valid concerns. Um,

3:35:56again, I just don't know what how much

3:35:58power we have in the situation to

3:36:00address those beyond approving or

3:36:01denying this.

3:36:03>> Okay.

3:36:03>> I know that's not super helpful answer.

3:36:04>> That's okay. It's it's part of the

3:36:06discussion and it's it's where we are.

3:36:09Are there any other discussion points or

3:36:13>> Mr. Chair,

3:36:14>> Commissioner Sea? Um,

3:36:17I am wondering like with the

3:36:21to Commissioner Pores's point about like

3:36:23the safety piece or the sidewalk and I

3:36:26know today we heard comments about the

3:36:29lighting, but lighting would be

3:36:31addressed in the design review, right?

3:36:34I look to my colleagues who are

3:36:36architects.

3:36:40>> There's um, Mr. Chair, I can help.

3:36:42>> Go for it, Mr. Yeah, there's there's

3:36:44actually u direction from city boy

3:36:48public works to install a street light

3:36:49at the sidewalk um in our packet. So

3:36:52it's back from the previous seminal that

3:36:54they are requiring an additional street

3:36:55light the sidewalk. So and then you know

3:36:59it's pretty typical that parking lot

3:37:01lighting is a standard requirement when

3:37:03you get into that design design review

3:37:05level of um design. Yeah.

3:37:25I would just add, I guess, while we're

3:37:27all kind of contemplating here, um,

3:37:31there are the specific requirements that

3:37:33satisfy a conditional use permit, and

3:37:36they start on page 298 of our PDF.

3:37:39Anyway,

3:37:40um and we have in our code the specific

3:37:44language that guides us with respect to

3:37:48what we can and cannot uh condition as

3:37:52part of a conditional use permit. So,

3:37:56might be helpful just to take a quick

3:37:58peek at that. And actually, I would ask

3:38:01staff maybe if there's since we're

3:38:05talking anyway and contemplating, maybe

3:38:07pull up in the staff report some of that

3:38:09language too that governs CUP.

3:38:16>> Mr. Chair, I'm ready to make a motion.

3:38:18>> Okay, Commissioner Sehawk, go for it.

3:38:24>> Sorry, I have to get my cheat sheet out.

3:38:30Mr. Chair, I move that we deny

3:38:35C Oh, no. CU24-46.

3:38:40>> Okay, I have a motion by Commissioner

3:38:43Sea to deny the application. Is there a

3:38:47second?

3:38:53>> I'll second at least for the point

3:38:55purpose of discussion.

3:38:56>> Okay, very good. I've got a motion by

3:38:58Commissioner Se and a second by

3:38:59Commissioner Torres. Is there

3:39:01discussion?

3:39:02>> Yes. [sighs] So, I agree with

3:39:05Commissioner Torres that this is has

3:39:07been um

3:39:09a difficult

3:39:12cup before us at least in in my

3:39:15experience. Um,

3:39:18I want to thank the uh applicant for the

3:39:22updated application um that you did

3:39:25provide that provided um some level of

3:39:28clarity, but I believe that there's

3:39:30still some items missing. Um

3:39:34it's very clear that we cannot dictate

3:39:37what the um who the applicant wants to

3:39:42allow to reside on their private

3:39:44property.

3:39:46Uh but I do think um that I would be

3:39:51more amendable to supporting

3:39:54um a project such as this if we had a

3:39:57more concrete security plan. I don't

3:40:00think that at least I I don't think that

3:40:04we can or at least I can't say that we

3:40:08as a planning and zoning commission um

3:40:13can say that um the proposal will not

3:40:17create material negative impacts to uses

3:40:20in the surrounding area because I feel

3:40:22like there's still some information

3:40:23missing. I also uh believe that I can't

3:40:28or we can't mitigate for m we can't

3:40:30mitigate for material negative impacts

3:40:32if we don't have a solid for example

3:40:35security plan in place.

3:40:38So the security plan is is my biggest

3:40:40hold up.

3:40:45>> Okay. Thank you commissioner sale. Is

3:40:47there further discussion?

3:40:51>> Mr. Chair,

3:40:52>> Mr. Stallings,

3:40:58>> this is Yeah, I would second what my

3:41:02fellow commissioners have said. This is

3:41:03a very unique cup application.

3:41:08Very difficult. Um, I want to

3:41:11acknowledge the concerns raised. Ma'am,

3:41:13I cried at the last time we brought this

3:41:15one up. Um,

3:41:17I want to acknowledge

3:41:20the concerns that have been raised by

3:41:22our community, um, particularly

3:41:24regarding the operating model. Thank you

3:41:26so much. Um, and the oversight,

3:41:30um, and the changes that have occurred

3:41:34since last time we saw this application.

3:41:36Uh,

3:41:38the concerns deserve consideration.

3:41:40And I think the additional information

3:41:42we requested in January um was

3:41:45important.

3:41:49At the same time, I fully understand

3:41:52that our responsibility is this is a

3:41:54land use commission. Um,

3:42:05our responsibility is to evaluate this

3:42:07application against the conditional use

3:42:10criteria applied in our zoning, but it's

3:42:15real life as well. I would agree with

3:42:16Commissioner Seha that

3:42:20there there are still misgivings in my

3:42:25opinion for me. Um

3:42:29as as she said that um this whether or

3:42:34not this proposed land use is

3:42:36appropriate at this location and whether

3:42:39the impacts to the surrounding community

3:42:41have been adequately addressed. Um,

3:42:46I think it's important to recognize and

3:42:48I am a huge advocate

3:42:50for a range of housing and housing

3:42:53opportunities and a city for everyone.

3:42:56Um,

3:42:59I still am struggling with this use on

3:43:03this exact footprint. Um,

3:43:07based based on that, I would support

3:43:10this motion.

3:43:13Okay. Thank you, Commissioner Stallings.

3:43:16I've got a motion to deny by

3:43:18Commissioner Sehouse, second by Torres.

3:43:21Any further discussion,

3:43:23>> Mr. Chair?

3:43:24>> Commissioner Moore.

3:43:25>> Um, appreciate all my fellow

3:43:27commissioners discussion and and points

3:43:30and and and totally understand where

3:43:32they're coming from. Um, I think I will

3:43:36not be in support of the motion.

3:43:39I I mean I I think I I'm probably again

3:43:42just saying the same thing again from

3:43:44the last hearing.

3:43:46I'm struggling to

3:43:50figure out a way that these additional

3:43:54layers are

3:43:57required for this particular use being

3:44:00co-housing,

3:44:02specifically co-housing.

3:44:04um you know, if it kicks into a

3:44:06different use, that's a whole different

3:44:09application, that's a whole different

3:44:11use that we're talking about. Right now,

3:44:13it's co-housing specifically.

3:44:16Um and as long as it remains co-housing

3:44:19specifically,

3:44:22I I struggle to apply all of these

3:44:25restrictions

3:44:28more than we would we wouldn't apply

3:44:30restrictions like this for multif

3:44:32family. you have to follow Idaho law.

3:44:34You you don't have to apply these

3:44:36restrictions to other projects, but this

3:44:39one specifically, even though it is a

3:44:41co-housing use, that's the use that

3:44:44we're looking at. We're not looking at a

3:44:47different use that's not being applied

3:44:48for. Now, if

3:44:52there's a complaint and then you come

3:44:53back for a different use, that's a whole

3:44:57different application in itself with a

3:45:00whole different set of requirements that

3:45:02could start to trigger some of these

3:45:04things. But right now, we're not looking

3:45:06at anything that requires security plans

3:45:09or anything like that. Um,

3:45:12and there's no, it's not, you know,

3:45:14there's I know a lot of the discussion

3:45:18in our application talks about certain

3:45:22groups that that may be served here, but

3:45:28there's nothing saying that those groups

3:45:30could not be served at some multif

3:45:32family facilities and and things like

3:45:34that. And we don't ask every multif

3:45:36family facility to provide this either.

3:45:40Um, and I think that's what I'm

3:45:42struggling with right here. Right now, I

3:45:44have an application for co-housing at an

3:45:49arterial roadway where density is

3:45:51expected. I've got a bus stop on site,

3:45:55uh, sidewalks that are connected,

3:45:57there's a library nearby, there's a

3:45:58grocery store nearby. It checks so many

3:46:01boxes for this use in this location

3:46:06um that applying these other

3:46:10restrictions and and and analyzing this

3:46:13use while understandable given the

3:46:16discussion in the packet I just struggle

3:46:20with doing that on this use um so long

3:46:25as it remains co-housing and that is our

3:46:29application. before us. Um I agree with

3:46:33the the street lights. You know, there

3:46:34is an there is a um

3:46:38a requirement for a street light, a

3:46:40pretty good size one, I think. Um that

3:46:43should help a lot with that. You know,

3:46:45the detached sidewalk should help with

3:46:47some of those conflicts. The two access

3:46:49locations should help with some of those

3:46:51conflicts as well. But in terms of the

3:46:53actual use,

3:46:55I think that with the adjacencies, with

3:46:57that bus stop, with all of those things

3:46:59listed above, I I do think that this is

3:47:02a good place for it. And adding these

3:47:05additional restrictions just

3:47:08I struggle with doing that for this

3:47:10particular project above and beyond

3:47:12state law and state statutes.

3:47:16>> Okay. Thank you very much, Commissioner

3:47:18Moore. Further discussion

3:47:22chair commissioner spons

3:47:25um so looking at this application um for

3:47:29the cup and what we're asked to look at

3:47:33here and so we start with the term

3:47:35co-ousing so is it co-ousing

3:47:38it seems to meet that it's very clearly

3:47:40stated that it is not recovery housing

3:47:43which as um commissioner Moore stated

3:47:47that would be a whole another set of

3:47:49things that we would need to consider

3:47:50and new things that would apply to it.

3:47:53The um uh any of the conditional aspects

3:47:58of it that have been recommended here by

3:48:01staff do not supersede any federal state

3:48:05laws. Um it doesn't invalidate them in

3:48:08any way. So those all are pertinent and

3:48:12are applied in this situation um for

3:48:15individuals that are utilizing that

3:48:16housing there.

3:48:18um they have a legit application process

3:48:22um somewhat even more challenging than

3:48:25what a university might entail for

3:48:28students. Um and I work at Boyisee State

3:48:30University. I don't work in housing, but

3:48:31I know what goes into selecting students

3:48:35for that. And this process is much more

3:48:38thorough in that way. Um I know they

3:48:41could always add more. Um, and I'm

3:48:43thankful that the applicant put in a lot

3:48:44of extra work into detailing this from

3:48:47the second from the first time that they

3:48:49came before us. Um, and addressed some

3:48:52of those concerns. Um, and that's even

3:48:54above and beyond what is required for

3:48:56this conditional use permit here too as

3:48:58well. Um, and then fundamentally when I

3:49:01think about that this would open up

3:49:04housing for individuals at $650.

3:49:09Um,

3:49:11that's a great spot in our community to

3:49:15have that opportunity and we say not

3:49:17here then where where will that go?

3:49:20Where will that be? There's never a

3:49:22perfect place. We don't have that uh

3:49:25those

3:49:27pause for a quick second

3:49:28>> and choose where each

3:49:30>> just a second. I I I appreciate

3:49:32everybody's reaction, but again, we got

3:49:35to keep that to a bare bare minimum and

3:49:38really nothing at all. We've listened

3:49:40for three hours, right, to everybody in

3:49:43this chamber and online, and this is the

3:49:46point of the time when it's time for us

3:49:48to to discuss and to render a decision.

3:49:50Please respect that process in these

3:49:52chambers. Thank you. Please continue.

3:49:55So this landowned owner has decided that

3:49:58this is what they would like to use

3:50:01their property for. Uh and that is their

3:50:05choice and that is their right uh to do

3:50:08that. Um and so for this location, for

3:50:12this price point, it's an excellent um

3:50:15opportunity to open that that section

3:50:17and to assume that individuals that

3:50:21afford a $650

3:50:23rent are going to all be criminals or

3:50:27all be sex offenders or all of those

3:50:29things, I think is not how we should

3:50:31look at our community and how we should

3:50:34think about um the people that are

3:50:38around in our community. That's not

3:50:40where we should start first. And that's

3:50:42why I'm not going to be in support of

3:50:44this denial.

3:50:45>> Okay. Thank you, Commissioner Stfons.

3:50:50That leaves you.

3:50:52>> I think it's my last one. Okay.

3:50:53>> Well, maybe Commissioner Torres.

3:50:55>> Yeah, Mr. Chair.

3:50:56>> Commissioner Schaefer.

3:50:57>> Yeah. Thanks everybody um for the

3:51:00testimony tonight um and the discussion.

3:51:03Um I also will not be in support of this

3:51:05motion. Uh I agree with um commissioners

3:51:08Moore and Stefonsik. Um this is a land

3:51:12use body and we uh evaluate land use

3:51:17development projects on the merits of

3:51:19the project presented before us and this

3:51:23um you know quite honestly we have a a

3:51:26recommendation for approval from staff.

3:51:29um all of the reviewing agencies um

3:51:31provided you know comment the applicant

3:51:34has agreed to the conditions within the

3:51:36staff report and um you know my my

3:51:40reading of the cup is that you know this

3:51:42use is a is actually a pretty low

3:51:44density

3:51:46uh multif family development

3:51:49um in an appropriate location near

3:51:51services as commissioner Moore discussed

3:51:54um the is a for rent product where you

3:52:00know residents have to be employed and

3:52:02pay rent. So um as Commissioner Moore

3:52:05discussed um this project already gone

3:52:07has already gone through a higher level

3:52:09of scrutiny than any other multif family

3:52:11or many other multif family projects

3:52:13that we evaluate you know on this dis

3:52:14for their land use appropriateness right

3:52:17and that's that's kind of the key for me

3:52:19is the land use appropriateness

3:52:21um so the the land is capable of um

3:52:26hosting this use and again there are

3:52:30services nearby

3:52:32um of Of course, many of these

3:52:33applications lay bare

3:52:35um or identify other concerns maybe

3:52:38within the neighborhood. So, the safe

3:52:40routes to school, that sort of thing,

3:52:42right? Um but this applicant is

3:52:44developing their property with standards

3:52:46that are typical for every other project

3:52:48that we see, right? We city requires

3:52:52detached sidewalks, they require street

3:52:54lights, they require development to a

3:52:56certain degree, and the applicant has

3:52:58done that with this application. So, um,

3:53:00again, as a as a land use body, I think

3:53:03that, um, I see no reason not to approve

3:53:06this conditional use application.

3:53:09>> Okay. Thank you, Commissioner Schaefer.

3:53:11Mr. Torres, you want to jump in? Jump in

3:53:14me. All right. Um,

3:53:17I I too will be uh voting in opposition

3:53:22to the denial. Um this is a tricky one

3:53:26and it's tricky because of what we have

3:53:29in front of us. This is yes this

3:53:31co-housing

3:53:33um definition and how it applies to our

3:53:36code is is a tricky slope. I think that

3:53:39the applicant we we pushed pretty hard I

3:53:42think in the first goaround to try to

3:53:44get some things changed. I think much of

3:53:46that has been addressed. I don't think

3:53:48necessarily all of it has been

3:53:50addressed, but I also know that we can

3:53:51only go so far with respect to the code.

3:53:55So, but I'm going to plant a seed. And

3:53:58the seed is that this is still a

3:54:00conditional use permit and it's still a

3:54:03housing permit and it's still has

3:54:07multiple buildings and so forth.

3:54:10So, I'm wondering

3:54:13if maybe this is a discussion item for

3:54:16us if there's a way to phase this

3:54:20from a phase one and a phase two

3:54:24and that I think if I recall in the

3:54:27application that the timeline was

3:54:29something like two and a half years

3:54:31between any approval and actual uh

3:54:35occupancy permit possibilities.

3:54:38If there isn't a, and I'm just throwing

3:54:41ideas out there,

3:54:44um I'll throw out a one-year period of

3:54:47time between a phase one and a phase two

3:54:51that

3:54:52maybe the

3:54:54uh the planning director makes a

3:54:57determination as to uh agencies and

3:55:02their their evaluation of how the first

3:55:04phase has gone before moving forward

3:55:06with a second phase. I think the

3:55:08transportation piece in particular is is

3:55:11of interest given the complexities of

3:55:13the school zones, the park or the the

3:55:16bus stop and and some of the things that

3:55:17we heard. Um I don't know if there's a

3:55:21needle to be thread here, but I'm

3:55:23wondering if there's a way that we could

3:55:26entertain that or at least discuss it,

3:55:28but that's that's something that's on my

3:55:30mind. So

3:55:34I give you enough time,

3:55:35>> Mr. Chair.

3:55:37Oh,

3:55:37>> Mr. Chair, clearly my um motion will not

3:55:41be passing. So, I'm going to retract it

3:55:45if that is an option.

3:55:47>> Well, I haven't weighed in yet.

3:55:49>> Okay.

3:55:49>> Let's hear from Commissioner Torres

3:55:51since he's the seconder of the motion

3:55:53and then we'll resolve that.

3:55:55>> I just want to state to the public who's

3:55:58here. Again, thank you for your

3:55:59testimony. Um, the good news is whatever

3:56:02decision we're about to make, there's a

3:56:05very high chance that we're going to be

3:56:06appealed to city council and they will

3:56:07end up making the ultimate decision. So,

3:56:10this is not necessarily over regardless

3:56:11of which way we we vote in a minute. Um,

3:56:16I'm going to stand by my second and vote

3:56:18to deny this. Um, you know, I

3:56:22this is just such a complicated

3:56:23application. It's honestly the hard I've

3:56:25been up here for almost three years.

3:56:26This is the hardest one I think we've

3:56:29we've had. Um, and I sat through six

3:56:31hours, seven hours of interfaith. So,

3:56:34um, I'm going to be a reluctant uh, yes

3:56:37on the motion, no on the approval. Um,

3:56:42but, you know, again, I I

3:56:45regardless of how this vote goes, if

3:56:47this project does come up again, I would

3:56:49just encourage you, Mr. favors to to

3:56:51consider voluntary caps, consider um

3:56:56a lot of the concerns I think are about

3:56:58trying to do too much with this project.

3:57:01You're trying to serve too many

3:57:02different groups here and I and I think

3:57:04that's where a lot of your neighbors

3:57:06concerns are coming from. Um

3:57:09so I would just encourage you to maybe

3:57:11look at that if you do try to resubmit

3:57:13this in the future as a different

3:57:14project. Um but I'm going to be in

3:57:16support of the motion that I seconded.

3:57:20Okay. Thank you, Commissioner Torres.

3:57:23Do you still want to Okay, that's fine.

3:57:27Um, I have got a motion by Commissioner

3:57:29Sea and a second by Commissioner Torres

3:57:31to deny the application as uh as

3:57:34presented. Would the clerk please call

3:57:36the role?

3:57:37>> Danley.

3:57:38>> Uh,

3:57:40no.

3:57:42>> Moore.

3:57:43>> No.

3:57:44>> Schaefer.

3:57:45>> No.

3:57:46>> Stay home.

3:57:47>> Yes.

3:57:49Orz,

3:57:50>> yes.

3:57:51>> Stallings,

3:57:52>> yes.

3:57:53>> Honik,

3:57:54>> no.

3:57:56>> Three in favor, four opposed. Motion

3:57:58fails.

3:58:00>> Okay. So, the motion to deny has been

3:58:03has failed. We would need to u have a

3:58:08substitute motion.

3:58:11>> Mr. Chair.

3:58:12>> Commissioner Moore,

3:58:13>> I move that we approve CP 24-46 for the

3:58:17reason stated in the staff report.

3:58:19>> Okay. I've got a motion by Commissioner

3:58:21Moore to approve

3:58:23the application uh with the terms and

3:58:26conditions of staff report. Is there a

3:58:27second?

3:58:28>> Uh second.

3:58:29>> I've got a second by Commissioner

3:58:30Stfansick. Is there discussion?

3:58:32>> Mr. Chair,

3:58:34>> Commissioner Moore.

3:58:35>> Um I think I've discussed most of it. I

3:58:37I'll just address your your

3:58:40suggestion about phasing. I think I'm

3:58:42not in favor. I'm not strongly opposed

3:58:45to it. I know phasing

3:58:49my worry [clears throat] is that phasing

3:58:50would drive up cost pretty

3:58:52significantly. We've got, you know, a

3:58:54project that has significantly improved

3:58:56with the multiple buildings, the coffee

3:58:59shop, and things like that. Um, but

3:59:02adding additional potentially additional

3:59:04costs that would result from phasing,

3:59:06you have to, you know, remobilize your

3:59:08construction, all that good stuff. Um,

3:59:11I just I worry that that doesn't really

3:59:16the benefits of of having that pause

3:59:19might not really outweigh the the

3:59:23additional cost that would be incurred

3:59:25by doing something like that. Um, and

3:59:28generally I know that cost isn't a

3:59:30consideration, but I I just don't know

3:59:34if those benefits are I completely

3:59:36understand them. I don't know if I um

3:59:40feel that that drastic of a of a nexus

3:59:44exists to to warrant phasing.

3:59:48>> Okay.

3:59:48>> I'm willing to be willing to have my

3:59:51mind changed otherwise.

3:59:54>> All right. Fair enough. Thank you,

3:59:55Commissioner Moore. Uh any other further

3:59:58discussion,

4:00:00>> Mr. Chair?

4:00:01>> Uh Commissioner Schaefer.

4:00:03>> Um yeah, I wonder if it it might be a

4:00:06situation where we add a condition to

4:00:08direct the applicant to explore

4:00:11possibilities of phasing the project for

4:00:15what I agree with Commissioner Torres.

4:00:16that will most likely be heading to city

4:00:19council for more discussion. Um so to

4:00:23explore and possibly present a phasing

4:00:25plan at that time. Um so it could be a

4:00:27little bit open-ended, right?

4:00:28>> Yeah.

4:00:29>> We're not dictating you have to do a

4:00:30phasing plan, but at least give them the

4:00:33direction to explore it and to present

4:00:36possible ideas for that

4:00:38>> if it's appealed.

4:00:39>> Yeah. Should it be appealed? Yeah.

4:00:41>> Yeah. Which which we don't know.

4:00:43>> Yes. Right.

4:00:44>> That's not a certainty.

4:00:45>> Although Okay. So, Mr.

4:00:46Commissioner Moore,

4:00:47>> can I amend my motion that the applicant

4:00:49will explore will work with staff to

4:00:53explore a phasing plan

4:00:57for

4:01:00the project

4:01:03that incorporates a year

4:01:07a one year pause for reassessment.

4:01:12Crystal has a year

4:01:15Mr. chair, if the commissioners uh could

4:01:18potentially talk more about how that

4:01:19might be enforced or how that might be

4:01:21determined if that was achieved. Um I

4:01:24just as we work on conditioning things

4:01:28um just want to make sure we we have

4:01:30benchmarks to track to. Right.

4:01:38>> It's well I I don't I I usually try to

4:01:42be last so I need to try to be last just

4:01:45given the general decorum of Robert's

4:01:48rules. So, I don't know. I think there's

4:01:50validity to this discussion, but

4:01:54>> other input. Commissioner Torres,

4:01:56>> I think

4:01:58city council, if this goes before them,

4:01:59had this public record now that we just

4:02:01discussed that. I don't think we need to

4:02:03include it as a condition. I think they

4:02:04can see the deliberation we had up here

4:02:06and how difficult it was for us as a

4:02:09body. And I think they can draw their

4:02:11own conclusions. They're they're pros at

4:02:12this. They've been doing it for a long

4:02:13time, some of them. So, I think it would

4:02:16be better just to keep the motion as it

4:02:18is simple and let the city council build

4:02:21their own record, which they can as a

4:02:23denovo appeal.

4:02:26>> Mr. Chair,

4:02:27>> Commissioner Moore,

4:02:30>> I'm good with that. I think also this

4:02:32discussion potentially gives the

4:02:34applicant something to go on why a

4:02:37phasing plan may not be a good idea and

4:02:40things like that, too. Um, just to play

4:02:43devil's advocate there. So one way or

4:02:46the other, you know, I think it gives

4:02:48some thoughts to move forward.

4:02:54>> Sure.

4:02:56>> Mr. Sals.

4:02:58>> Yeah, I I I would prefer that just keep

4:03:01it as the motion. I think we as

4:03:04indicated, we've talked a lot. I think

4:03:06the applicant it would benefit them to

4:03:10think through maybe engage or talk

4:03:12through things with the community to

4:03:14figure out how best they can work

4:03:16together and engage

4:03:19uh and moving that forward um to

4:03:21potentially make the next steps easier

4:03:24for themselves. And so that's up to

4:03:27them. And I think ahead of us is to

4:03:29either approve or deny this

4:03:44I'm I'm struggling with this because I

4:03:47feel like I don't want us to punt, you

4:03:50know? I feel like this is our job. This

4:03:52is our role and we can't assume that

4:03:54this is going to be appealed. Um I I

4:03:58don't disagree. I think we've done this

4:03:59long enough to know when things are

4:04:01likely to be appealed and when they're

4:04:02not, but there's no guarantee that way.

4:04:05I think that we have granted the reason.

4:04:08I think that we are in the midst of

4:04:10granting the CUP, but I do think and I

4:04:13hear my fellow commissioners and the

4:04:15people who are here tonight and who've

4:04:16testified that there's still work to be

4:04:18done and there's still questions that

4:04:21need to be answered and some of those

4:04:23questions are not easy ones. And

4:04:28the the the the challenge here is that

4:04:31we have to answer somehow something

4:04:35under the opaces of co-housing

4:04:38but that's a limitation but there are

4:04:41other elements of this application that

4:04:43are not the co-housing element and

4:04:45that's I'm just throwing one of them out

4:04:47there and that's the transportation one

4:04:49right and other things like that. So,

4:04:53how do we thread and how do we thread

4:04:55this needle in

4:05:00wanting the best for this application

4:05:01while at the same time wanting the best

4:05:03for the for the neighborhood,

4:05:06possibly putting a pause on things,

4:05:08reconvening, getting some of the folks

4:05:11back in the room together who are part

4:05:13of the decision-making process. give the

4:05:15develop the the planning director, for

4:05:17example, enough

4:05:20information, data, traffic counts was

4:05:22was mentioned right off the bat, for

4:05:24example, those types of things to be

4:05:27able to say with with certainty or

4:05:31without and changes that phase 2 gets

4:05:34the blessing and to move forward.

4:05:37That's that's that's where I am. And I'm

4:05:40really trying hard to figure out what is

4:05:43what are those metrics to staff's

4:05:45question. What is those measures? What's

4:05:47the bar that that can be determined and

4:05:51met without necessarily having to

4:05:54>> take it to council for them to figure

4:05:56that out, assuming that they're going to

4:05:58listen to every word we're saying right

4:05:59now, right? Or watch it. I don't know

4:06:01that. You don't know that,

4:06:07>> Mr. Chair.

4:06:08>> Commissioner for

4:06:10>> I don't I don't know how to word this uh

4:06:14this condition, but I do see it looks

4:06:16like our condition number 11. I don't

4:06:20see anything from the school district

4:06:23that we've gotten any sort of like

4:06:25letter that they comply.

4:06:27Can we make a condition that they'll

4:06:29work with the school district on

4:06:34I mean they got to work with the school

4:06:35district either way because it's not on

4:06:37there but

4:06:41does that help some of it? Maybe they'll

4:06:43work with the school district for this

4:06:44compliance letter. Yeah,

4:06:46>> you could even include the

4:06:49[laughter]

4:06:49>> We could even include work with the

4:06:51school district to

4:06:54improve safe routes to school along

4:06:56their frontage or something like that.

4:06:57To the extent they can, I don't even

4:06:59know how they would do that more than

4:07:00adding the the domed yellow

4:07:05commissioner shaver knows what those are

4:07:06called.

4:07:07>> Um,

4:07:08>> drunk. Thank you.

4:07:10>> [laughter]

4:07:12>> Um,

4:07:14but I don't know if there's something

4:07:16something there that could help

4:07:18improve, you know, some of those things

4:07:21that

4:07:23those departments haven't had a chance

4:07:24to comment on.

4:07:25>> Commission,

4:07:26>> can I clar what are we what are we

4:07:28trying to address transportation wise?

4:07:30I'm a little confused.

4:07:34To me, part of the transportation

4:07:36paradigm is we've heard some of the

4:07:38concernation about certainly this being

4:07:40a a a walking route to and from school.

4:07:44We've heard about the the location and

4:07:47there may be a problem with the bus

4:07:49stop, maybe not. That's been discussed.

4:07:52We start we've heard about access

4:07:53issues. Um those are just some of the

4:07:56ones I I've I've heard off the top of

4:07:58our head. Um,

4:08:00so yeah, that's

4:08:04but again that's only the

4:08:05transportation.

4:08:06>> Yeah. What other tools do we have here

4:08:09transportation wise that doesn't include

4:08:11like ACD, right? We have 10 foot wide

4:08:14sidewalks.

4:08:14>> Well, yeah.

4:08:16>> And so that's why I'm like good. What

4:08:19else? I mean

4:08:20>> say

4:08:22what I'm going to say because that's

4:08:23that's the truth.

4:08:27We we we have authorities on land use

4:08:30and transportation requirements and

4:08:32improvements. We do

4:08:34um

4:08:44Mr. Chair, it might help the commission

4:08:47uh to think about any adjustments you

4:08:49might want to make in terms of findings.

4:08:51I'm hearing a lot of kind of going back

4:08:53and forth, but we haven't really filled

4:08:55out any

4:08:58differentiation from what's in the staff

4:08:59report on findings. Maybe that would

4:09:01help you determine if you need more

4:09:03conditions or not if you can tie it to

4:09:05again your decision criteria.

4:09:12I hate to say this, but would it help if

4:09:15we took a couple [clears throat] minutes

4:09:17and not just

4:09:20make this sausage the way that we're

4:09:22doing it right now and maybe take a

4:09:24second to reflect or do we not need to

4:09:26do that? I'm just

4:09:30>> Mr. Chair.

4:09:31>> Okay, Commissioner Morp. I think let I

4:09:34think if we go through the findings I

4:09:36think the biggest so

4:09:39condition number two aside I think that

4:09:40right now we're talking about condition

4:09:42number four or finding number four the

4:09:45site provides a safe convenient and

4:09:47efficient network that minimizes

4:09:48conflicts between pedestrians bicyclists

4:09:51vehicular traffic by creating a network

4:09:53that includes sidewalk pathways

4:09:54landscaping and promotes active

4:09:56transportation

4:09:58to

4:10:00Crystal's point.

4:10:02I think that you know the findings that

4:10:05are listed I 10 foot detached sidewalk

4:10:09and I think commissioner spons

4:10:1210 foot detached sidewalk along Cole

4:10:14Road um closing one access point to

4:10:16minimize to reduce conflicts

4:10:20um

4:10:22connecting the structure of the ride

4:10:23ofway.

4:10:25I mean really the detached sidewalk, the

4:10:27additional bus stop as well, whatever

4:10:30that bus stop standard is for that

4:10:32particular stop. And

4:10:34um

4:10:37those feel like they meet that

4:10:39requirement.

4:10:41Um and you you certainly are reducing

4:10:43one point of conflict by reducing one

4:10:47curb cut along Coal Road. That does help

4:10:49a lot.

4:10:51Um,

4:10:55>> Mr. Chair, if you're done.

4:10:57>> Yeah. [clears throat]

4:10:58>> I'm not going to be in support of the

4:10:59motion, but I'll try to help a little

4:11:01bit here. Perhaps we could just add to

4:11:04that condition or that finding to work

4:11:07with the school district to make

4:11:11maintain or improve the safe routes to

4:11:13school. I know that's still vague, but

4:11:14at least it gives some guidance. Um,

4:11:18that's just my thought after listening

4:11:20to our deliberation on that.

4:11:24>> Mr. Chair,

4:11:25>> Mr. Se,

4:11:27>> I'm having a hard time understanding why

4:11:29we are wanting to put specific

4:11:31conditions

4:11:33um

4:11:35to the uh to add to the staff report and

4:11:39the conditions for approval on this

4:11:43particular

4:11:45site. when we have had other

4:11:50I would say multif family apartments

4:11:52different but you know again um and

4:11:55we've not gotten to great lengths there

4:11:58there's a lot of comment that we

4:12:00received today and in our application

4:12:03process where people had some concerns

4:12:07based off of fear and then some concerns

4:12:10that were valid concerns and so I I

4:12:14don't think it's appropriate to just

4:12:16pick and choose where we would

4:12:21um

4:12:24add additional conditions to a

4:12:27particular

4:12:28item over another.

4:12:35>> Yeah. And Mr. Chair, just to follow up

4:12:36on that, I just was trying to help, but

4:12:38I I I mean, this is why I I'm going to

4:12:41oppose the motion. And I think there's

4:12:42just this is just too complicated an

4:12:44application for me to support.

4:12:50>> Yeah. And and this is uh I will I will

4:12:53say I know that council has in the past

4:12:56had applications that have come from our

4:12:59body and has have entered their own

4:13:01chambers and they have done phasing

4:13:02plans in the past. It's not something

4:13:04that is all that necessarily all that

4:13:07unique. It it does have precedent. um

4:13:10whether this one is ripe for that. Fair

4:13:14question for sure.

4:13:17Um

4:13:23I don't know how to thread this needle.

4:13:26>> Yeah, Mr. Chair,

4:13:29>> I I tend to agree with Commissioner M

4:13:31Comm Commissioner Sea. Um

4:13:34and I'm prepared to vote on the motion

4:13:36as it stands currently. Um, I think the

4:13:38record's pretty full here that we have

4:13:40had discussion about potentially phasing

4:13:43the project, but we're yeah

4:13:44>> at a little bit of a loggers logger's

4:13:46head about how to do that. And um, at

4:13:49the end of the day, you know, this is a

4:13:52>> 60 resident application. It's it's not a

4:13:54terribly large

4:13:56>> multif family project or co-housing

4:13:59project. So, um I think if we're

4:14:02struggling this much to try and find an

4:14:04additional condition, maybe we don't

4:14:06need to find additional conditions

4:14:07perhaps.

4:14:08>> So, but again, I I tend to just I'm

4:14:10prepared to just vote on the motion as

4:14:11it stands before us.

4:14:14>> Thank you, Commissioner Schaefer.

4:14:15Appreciate that. Definitely.

4:14:17>> Any other discussion?

4:14:20>> Mr. Chair,

4:14:20>> Commissioner Moore.

4:14:21>> Uh agreed. I think you know there there

4:14:24have been other projects I can think of

4:14:26a church I don't know where it was that

4:14:28we added truncated domes um at an

4:14:32additional exit just because there were

4:14:34conflicts.

4:14:36Um so there there are some some

4:14:38conditions where we we do kind of

4:14:39address some of that pedestrian

4:14:42realm but again

4:14:46robust

4:14:48record I'm comfortable making the

4:14:49motion. I don't want to write a mo a a

4:14:53condition requiring phasing. It would

4:14:56need to be vague and I just don't think

4:14:57that the city wants it vague.

4:15:00>> Yeah.

4:15:01>> Motion.

4:15:01>> Thank you, Commissioner Moore.

4:15:05>> Um All right. I'm I'll I'll be quick.

4:15:07I'm going to be in support of the

4:15:08motion. What What am I trying to do?

4:15:10It's pretty obvious, right? The obvious

4:15:12being that

4:15:15have you build a portion of it, take a

4:15:17breath, see how things go, see where the

4:15:20operational changes hopefully need to be

4:15:22made, be tweaked, work with the partners

4:15:25that need to be worked with, right? And

4:15:28adjust and improve. I can't I can't

4:15:32figure out how exactly to condition that

4:15:35under

4:15:37u a co-ousing

4:15:39uh zone. This probably will go to in

4:15:42front of council and maybe they will

4:15:44figure this out. Uh I don't know. Or we

4:15:49can certainly uh hope that you take that

4:15:53advice and and the applicant take that

4:15:55advice um and try to make adjustments

4:16:01on this in all of the ways that we've

4:16:03heard to make this a better product and

4:16:06safer product and everything else that

4:16:08can come from it. So that's that was my

4:16:11intent. That's where where I am. But in

4:16:13any case, I agree with my fellow

4:16:15commissioners. At the end of the day,

4:16:16this is a a land use application that um

4:16:20we have to make with respect to our

4:16:22code. So,

4:16:25okay, the clerk, please call the role.

4:16:27Wait, let me set the record. Um I've got

4:16:31a motion by Commissioner Moore, second

4:16:33by Commissioner Schaefer uh to approve

4:16:36the application with terms and

4:16:37conditions of staff report. Oh, was it

4:16:39you? I'm sorry. Who? Wait, who made the

4:16:41motion? Did you?

4:16:42>> Commissioner,

4:16:42>> did you second it? Oh, okay. I'm sorry.

4:16:44I thought I have it as a shaper. Second

4:16:46by Commissioner Stfanic. Thank you for

4:16:47the correction. The clerk, please call

4:16:49the role.

4:16:51>> Danley,

4:16:52>> yes.

4:16:53>> Moore,

4:16:54>> yes.

4:16:55>> Schaer,

4:16:56>> yes.

4:16:57>> Deha,

4:16:58>> no.

4:16:59>> Torres,

4:17:00>> no.

4:17:01>> Stallings,

4:17:02>> no.

4:17:03>> Stanson,

4:17:04>> yes.

4:17:06>> Four in favor, three opposed. Motion

4:17:08carries.

4:17:10>> Okay. Thank you everybody for your

4:17:12patience. This concludes tonight's

4:17:14hearing.

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