2026-11-04 - Public Works Commission Regular Meeting

00:55What you

03:24>> What is that?

04:31>> Good afternoon, everybody.

04:33I'm going to call the meeting to order.

04:34Um

04:36and starting off, um

04:38I'll do a roll call uh

04:41of our commissioners.

04:43And if you'll just respond letting us

04:44know you're here.

04:46Um commissioner Barnes.

04:49>> Here.

04:50>> Commissioner Ellis.

04:52>> Here.

04:54>> Commissioner Gervat.

04:56Commissioner Lockett.

04:57>> Here.

04:58>> Commissioner Morgan.

04:59>> I'm here.

05:01>> Commissioner Pagan.

05:02>> Here.

05:05>> Excellent. Thank you. Um and let the

05:07record note we have a quorum.

05:10Um first agenda item up we have is um

05:14approval of our minutes

05:16uh from our last meeting October 6th,

05:192026.

05:20Um

05:22do I have a motion?

05:24>> Chair, I move to approve October 6th

05:27meeting minutes.

05:28>> Thank you.

05:29Commissioner Morgan. Uh do I have a

05:31second?

05:32>> I'll second.

05:34>> Thank you, commissioner Lockett.

05:37Uh

05:38um

05:40to remember all in I guess all in favor

05:42of approving say aye.

05:44>> Aye.

05:45>> Aye.

05:46Any opposed?

05:48Hearing none, the motion passes.

05:52Moving on to our full agenda item. Um

05:55the next agenda item is uh

05:58an appeal that we're hearing today.

06:01And I will turn

06:04this over to our legal to uh introduce

06:07the section for us. Mary?

06:10>> Thank you, Chair. Um, just providing an

06:12overview for everybody that we will

06:14first hear from the staff. Um, they will

06:16present and will provide 20 minutes for

06:19that presentation. After staff's

06:21presentation, we will open the floor to

06:22Dairy Gold for a 20-minute presentation.

06:26Q&A can happen either after the staff

06:28presentation um or after the Dairy Gold

06:30presentation or both.

06:32Um, once Q&A is all done, then it will

06:36be provided staff five minutes for any

06:39kind of rebuttal, and that would be

06:40followed by Dairy Gold for an additional

06:42five minutes for rebuttal. The hearing

06:44will then be closed, and the decision

06:47will be before the commission.

06:51>> Thank you, Mary. So, uh first up, um

06:55staff, please come and introduce

06:56yourself.

06:58>> Thank you, Chair Commission, for having

06:59me here today. I am Sarah Heron, the

07:02pre-treatment program manager for the

07:04city of Boise, and we also do the

07:06pre-treatment program for West Boise

07:08Sewer District.

07:11I'm here today to talk about the staff

07:12side of the Dairy Gold compliance issues

07:15that have led to this show cause

07:17hearing.

07:23Uh the record before the committee is a

07:25multiple permit violations and reporting

07:28deficiencies starting in 2021 running

07:30through October 2026.

07:33Uh that is documented through

07:34monitoring, inspections, notices, and

07:37orders.

07:38The response of city staff has been a

07:39progression of compliance schedules,

07:42corrective actions,

07:43enhanced monitoring, and increasingly

07:45strong enforcement. The question before

07:47the committee is whether sewer

07:49termination is an appropriate next step

07:52um for city staff to take.

07:56So, a little brief background. Uh Dairy

07:58Gold is inside the West Boise Sewer

08:01District. Uh the West Boise Sewer

08:03District are also in this presentation

08:05referred to as just the district

08:08uh, oversees the collection system of

08:10West Boise and all of the collection

08:12system pipes that go to our West Boise

08:15water renewal facility.

08:17The city of Boise oversees West Boise

08:19sewer district's pre-treatment through a

08:21joint agreement, um, that started in

08:241965. Um,

08:27the city bears the responsibility of the

08:29pre-treatment program there, so we

08:31conduct all of the inspections,

08:33monitoring, and we also draft all of the

08:36enforcement responses for what the

08:38district. The district has the final

08:41issuing authority.

08:43However, on June 30th, 2026, the

08:46district and the city signed a first

08:47addendum to their joint interest

08:49agreement, in which case city staff take

08:52on all enforcement responsibilities,

08:54which is why it is myself and city staff

08:56presenting today and not West Boise

08:58sewer district.

09:01This is a brief map of Dairy Gold's

09:03facility at 618 North Alumbum Street.

09:07Uh, just to to place you in Boise a

09:09little bit, this is just south of

09:11Emerald and kind of next to the mall.

09:13The yellow rectangle is Dairy Gold's

09:16processing facility where they take raw

09:18milk and dairy products,

09:20um, and then their processed wastewater

09:23goes over to that red oval, which is

09:26their pre-treatment facility.

09:28Uh, they have a clarifier, digesters,

09:33uh, equalization tank, and a DAF or

09:36dissolved air flotation, um, system as

09:38well.

09:39Uh, it's a biological pre-treatment

09:41system.

09:43They have two industrial outfalls. Uh,

09:45the first is the Orange Diamond one. Uh,

09:49this is the outfall after their

09:51pre-treatment system, so all of most of

09:53their process water comes through

09:55outfall one.

09:56Their second industrial outfall is the

09:59number two that's next to the yellow

10:01rectangle. This is their second

10:03industrial outfall and it takes the

10:05water from their boiler blowdown,

10:07cooling water, uh, steam reject.

10:11Uh, city staff is recommending the

10:13termination of Dairy Gold sewer at both

10:15of these industrial outfalls, but not

10:18terminating their domestic wastewater

10:22connection. Um, so Dairy Gold staff will

10:24still be able to wash their hands and go

10:26to the bathroom.

10:29I'll be taking you through the

10:31enforcement timeline starting in 2021.

10:34Um, Dairy Gold increased production

10:36without first increasing their

10:38pre-treatment program,

10:40um, which led to an operational incident

10:42and spill which disrupted their

10:44pre-treatment process. Like I said,

10:46their pre-treatment is biological,

10:49um, and this led to violations. Um, the

10:53first administrative order was then

10:55issued in November of 2021. As part of

10:58this administrative order, Dairy Gold

11:00was given a 15-month compliance

11:02schedule.

11:03Uh, this was for temporary treatment

11:05installation and optimization, but the

11:07compliance schedule was cut short due to

11:10worsening effluent concentrations.

11:12So Dairy Gold's effluent was causing

11:14impact and interference at our West

11:16Boise water renewal facility, which goes

11:19against a section in their permit. Uh,

11:21we were seeing increased solids

11:23handling, increased BOD influent at our

11:26West Boise plant, uh, increased

11:28electricity costs and usage as well.

11:31Uh, this led to the second

11:32administrative order in July of 2022

11:35along with significant non-compliance.

11:38Significant non-compliance is an EPA

11:40term. Uh, it basically means that over

11:4260% of Dairy Gold samples were out of

11:45compliance.

11:47This administrative order we also

11:49assessed fines. These were the first

11:51fines that the city of Boise's

11:53pre-treatment program has ever assessed

11:55to an industry,

11:56uh, and the fines covered the violations

11:58from the first and second administrative

12:01order.

12:02Uh, as part of this administrative

12:04order, they were also given a 4-month

12:06compliance schedule and treatment

12:08milestones.

12:10After this schedule ended in March of

12:122023, gave the a third administrative

12:14order along with significant

12:16non-compliance

12:17uh and and fines that assessed the

12:20violations between the second and third

12:22administrative order.

12:24In this administrative order, they were

12:25given 90 days um as a compliance

12:28schedule. So they had to be in

12:29compliance within 90 days and they were

12:32warned that if they exceeded or um

12:35violated their permit after those 90

12:37days, we would seek sewer termination.

12:40Uh this was the first time the city had

12:42um warned or gotten to the point of um

12:46getting up to sewer termination.

12:49After the 90 days, city staff collected

12:51samples and verified that Dairy Gold was

12:53in compliance. Um Dairy Gold remained in

12:55compliance for about six months and then

12:58we modified their permit.

13:00In 2023, the city conducted a local

13:02limits analysis. Uh it is a requirement

13:05from DEQ, which is our regulatory body,

13:07that we conduct these about every four

13:09years. So on that schedule, we conducted

13:11a local limits analysis and looked at

13:13our

13:14uh water and well facilities, influent

13:17effluent removal efficiencies, and the

13:19permit um that our facilities have as

13:22well and determined through scientific

13:25reasoning that we needed phosphorus and

13:27ammonia local limits. These local limits

13:29are applied to all industrial users

13:31across the city regardless of if they

13:33have a permit or not. They're written

13:35into city code.

13:37Um

13:38because these are new permits, we

13:40allowed all of our industrial users to

13:41have a compliance schedule.

13:44Uh we worked with Dairy Gold and

13:45actually extended their compliance

13:47schedule to 18 months due to

13:49construction issues that they were

13:50having at the time.

13:52Um

13:53after the 18 months, full enforcement

13:55resumed. So during that compliance

13:56schedule, the 18 months, any phosphorus

13:59or ammonia violations were not pursued

14:01with enforcement actions because all

14:03facilities needed some time to put in

14:06treatment um and optimize treatment in

14:08order to meet permit requirements.

14:11So the schedule of compliance ended

14:14August 15th, 2025 and about a week and

14:18during that time frame Dairy Gold was

14:20collecting samples and verified they

14:22were in compliance.

14:23And about a week later on August 21st,

14:262025 and August 28th, 2025 Dairy Gold

14:29exceeded their phosphorus limits. Uh the

14:32phosphorus limits across the city is

14:3435.9 milligrams per liter.

14:37Uh the facility was required to

14:39investigate, submit a corrective actions

14:41plan. So basically come up with a plan

14:43of actions they can do to reduce

14:45phosphorus

14:46and begin weekly phosphorus monitoring.

14:48At this point Dairy Gold had already

14:50been doing weekly phosphorus monitoring,

14:52but we just put this as a requirement

14:54for them as well.

14:56In October um they also violated their

14:59phosphorus limit and had four sampling

15:02deficiencies. They didn't sample for TKN

15:04and NOx at their two industrial

15:06outfalls.

15:07Due to this we submitted or we issued an

15:10administrative order, which is the

15:12increasing enforcement.

15:14Um the district in the city required

15:16continued corrective actions and

15:17modified corrective actions based off of

15:19the previous actions listed uh and we

15:22also assessed fines under our

15:24enforcement response plan at $150 per

15:27violation.

15:29So if you'll notice this administrative

15:31order does not have a compliance

15:33schedule attached to it. Uh Dairy Gold

15:35had recently completed an 18 month

15:37compliance schedule and had received a

15:39total of 33 months of compliance

15:41schedule over the prior 48 months and

15:44city staff determined that another

15:46compliance schedule would not bring

15:47Dairy Gold into compliance due to past

15:49actions.

15:52This will take us through 2026

15:54enforcement. Um so throughout the

15:56January reporting period Dairy Gold had

15:59four numerical violations. In all of our

16:02industrial user permits we have a

16:05variety of either numerical permit

16:08limits, which are based off of local

16:09limits or categorical limits from the

16:12EPA

16:13or monitoring and reporting um

16:15requirements. So this is things like

16:18reporting on time, reporting spills like

16:20you're supposed to, things like that.

16:22Uh so Dairy Gold had four numerical

16:23limits and five uh reporting violations.

16:27During the February reporting period,

16:29they had one phosphorus violation and

16:31they exceeded their maximum monthly

16:33ammonia limit. So that was 28 violations

16:36one per each day.

16:38Um the fines we assessed were based off

16:40of the phosphorus violation and then

16:42just one for the maximum monthly

16:45violation.

16:47During the March reporting period, they

16:49had three phosphorus violations.

16:51They also had a late report. So that was

16:54the next administrative order. Um Dairy

16:57Gold reported a spill like they were

16:58supposed to. Um however, in their

17:01permit, they are required within five

17:03days to submit an after action summary

17:06stating what they're going to do to

17:08hopefully not have spills in the future,

17:10um what actions they can take or things

17:12to change. And that report was two days

17:14late.

17:16Uh they also were given another

17:17administrative order for late payment.

17:19The above assessed fines were 98 days

17:22late.

17:24On June 30th, 2026, we gave them another

17:27administrative order. This covered the

17:29June reporting period which had two

17:30phosphorus violations

17:32and the corrective actions plan was 30

17:35days late.

17:37Uh as you can see on the far right, the

17:39fine amount for each numerical violation

17:41increased per each AO or administrative

17:44order.

17:45This is how we could showed increasing

17:46enforcement over the past year.

17:50Uh you'll hear me keep mentioning this

17:52June 30th administrative order. As part

17:54of that order, they were given 10 days

17:56to submit their corrective action plan

17:59so until July 10th.

18:01Starting July 10th, they were also given

18:03a 60-day grace period. So during this

18:05grace period, uh any numerical permit

18:08violation would be given a $1,000 fine.

18:12However, no further enforcement actions

18:14would be pursued.

18:17So during the grace period on July 2nd,

18:19Dairy Gold exceeded their phosphorus

18:21limit with a sample of 70 milligrams per

18:24liter and were assessed the $1,000 fine.

18:27And during the grace period on September

18:2913th,

18:31they collected a dissolved oxygen

18:33reading below 2.0 milligrams per liter.

18:37Phosphorus is a city of Boise local

18:40limit. It's assessed across the entire

18:41city. Dissolved oxygen is a West Boise

18:44sewer district local limit which is

18:46addressed to their industrial users in

18:48their part of town.

18:50Dissolved oxygen,

18:52if it's too low, can impact their

18:54collection system and start degrading

18:56the pipe.

18:57And it's also a concern for odor

18:59complaints and worker safety. It can

19:01cause an increase in H2S which is

19:03hazardous for the collection system

19:05staff.

19:08So that dissolved oxygen reading happens

19:11during the grace period.

19:12So no further enforcement was needed.

19:14However, Dairy Gold was told verbally to

19:17investigate the cause of the low

19:18dissolved oxygen.

19:20Their dissolved oxygen numbers had been

19:22trending low for the entirety of August,

19:24trending right above 2.0 milligrams per

19:27liter.

19:28And so they were told to investigate and

19:30find the source of the low dissolved

19:32oxygen readings.

19:35Then towards the end of September,

19:36starting September 22nd, they had 13

19:39days of low dissolved oxygen

19:41recordings

19:43ranging from 1.74 to 1.93 milligrams per

19:46liter.

19:47On October 5th, the meter was

19:49recalibrated and possibly replaced. Have

19:52verbal confirmation it was replaced. I

19:53just didn't get any physical

19:55documentation yet.

19:57The reported reading on that October 5th

19:59was 6.06 milligrams per liter.

20:03The later reading on October 5th does

20:06not by itself establish that the earlier

20:08readings of 13 days were inaccurate or

20:11that the dissolved oxygen was in range

20:13and in compliance during those preceding

20:15days.

20:18Throughout 2026 and even from the

20:20beginning of enforcement issues starting

20:22in 2021, the city has followed our

20:24enforcement response plan. This is a

20:26plan written by city staff and approved

20:29by the Department of Environmental

20:30Quality, which is our regulatory body.

20:33We have to follow this plan or else

20:35we are violating our permit with DEQ and

20:38our pre-treatment program can be found

20:40in deficiency.

20:42So we started with compliance schedules,

20:44which gave Dairy Gold time to design,

20:46install, and optimize treatment.

20:49Uh we also increased monitoring and

20:51reporting requirements so we were able

20:52to see the trends of their compliance

20:54schedule and their treatment

20:56optimization.

20:57Uh

20:58we then went to notice of violation,

21:00which is the initial response to

21:02self-monitoring violations according to

21:04our enforcement response plan.

21:07The notice of violation also came with

21:08corrective actions, which is basically a

21:10request for Dairy Gold to come up with

21:12actions to bring themselves back into

21:14compliance.

21:15We then went to administrative orders,

21:17uh which are increasing requirements for

21:19continued violations according to our

21:21enforcement response plan. And these

21:23administrative orders had increasing

21:25fines so we could show DEQ that we are

21:27still increasing enforcement.

21:30And finally, we gave them a final grace

21:32period, which was a 60-day opportunity

21:34to regain and stay in compliance.

21:39City staff recommend sewer termination

21:41because sustained compliance has not

21:44been achieved. Since 2021, Dairy Gold

21:47has only been in sustained compliance

21:48for about six months.

21:50Uh violations continued after treatment

21:52improvements, compliance schedules, and

21:54multiple enforcement actions from city

21:56staff.

21:58Also, as we have shown, we've used

22:00increasing fines um to show increasing

22:03enforcement. However, Boise City Code

22:05caps administrative fines at $1,000 per

22:08violation per day, which was reached in

22:10the June 30th administrative order.

22:13The ERP or enforcement response plan

22:16identifies sewer termination as the next

22:18and only enforcement step city staff is

22:20able to make.

22:22We also have a regulatory obligation to

22:24follow our ERP, as mentioned before and

22:27deviating it from it can cause a city to

22:29violate its permit with DEQ.

22:31There's also a system risk here as well.

22:35Our West Boise Water Renewal Facility is

22:37currently undergoing construction and

22:40has

22:41constrained ability to take

22:44non-compliant wastewater.

22:46If we continue taking non-compliant

22:47wastewater, it is also a signal to our

22:49other industries that they can pay to

22:51get away with

22:54violating their permits.

22:57City staff recommend to proceed with

22:59sewer service termination to Dairy

23:01Gold's two industrial facilities

23:04or two industrial connection points.

23:06Again, this is not impacting their

23:08domestic process at all.

23:10They are still be able to wash hands, go

23:12to the bathroom. It's only the

23:13industrial lines that we are suggesting

23:15to terminate.

23:17The record shows repeated compliance

23:19opportunities, progressive enforcement,

23:21and dissolved oxygen readings below the

23:23permit minimum and after the grace

23:24period has ended.

23:26I I am available to answer the questions

23:28questions either now or after Dairy Gold

23:30presents. Thank you for your time.

23:34>> Thank you very much for the

23:35presentation.

23:37Procedural questions, should we hear

23:38from the appellant before we do

23:40questions?

23:42>> That's to the discretion of the chair,

23:44but if you want to have all information

23:46before formulating the questions, then

23:48we should go to go ahead with Dairy

23:49Gold's presentation.

23:51>> I'll ask the commission to hold the

23:52questions and may make a couple notes

23:55and then

23:56thank you so much for your presentation.

23:58I'm sure we'll see you again in a

24:00moment.

24:01And

24:02let me call the appellant to to give

24:05testimony.

24:15>> Good afternoon. Thank you for the

24:16opportunity to speak.

24:19My name is Doug Pettinger. I'm the

24:21director of environmental compliance for

24:23Dairy Gold.

24:25Other staff here with us, from VP and a

24:28plant manager and another environmental

24:30person.

24:31>> Can excuse me for interrupting, but

24:33yeah, I was going to ask you to adjust

24:35because it's a little hard to hear.

24:36Thank you.

24:36>> Yeah.

24:42Okay.

24:43You can go to the next slide.

24:48So we're hoping to explain phosphorus

24:50our our efforts

24:52and review the permit violations and

24:53request that substitute data be

24:56considered.

24:58Next.

25:01This is a bit about Dairy Gold and one

25:03thing that isn't up there is that we

25:05process about 50 to 60,000 gallons of

25:07milk a day. It's

25:09quite a quite a lot of milk.

25:12But everything else I'll leave you can

25:13read in the copy of our presentation.

25:17Next.

25:20I'll start with the phosphorus

25:21compliance effort as has been

25:24very difficult for us and hopefully I

25:25can explain that to some extent.

25:29Next.

25:32Phosphoric acid is used in the dairy

25:34industry for cleaning. It's it's used

25:36everywhere. It's very common. It's

25:39safer for the employees. It's safer to

25:40transport in and out of the facility.

25:42It's well well tested and recognized.

25:46And that's why we're using it.

25:48It wasn't an optional thing for us.

25:52Next.

25:55But as of June 8th, we did get all of

25:57the phosphoric acid compounds and

25:59chemicals out of our plant.

26:02And that took a lot of effort, but we we

26:04don't have any anymore in any of our

26:06chemical cleaning processes or any other

26:10component in the plant.

26:12Next.

26:14You might wonder why it took so long.

26:16Well, we had to get the equipment

26:17suppliers on board.

26:20That's the cleaning that they recommend

26:21and require, otherwise we avoid the

26:23warranty of the

26:24equipment.

26:26We have FDA involved. We had to get

26:28approval for under change in cleaning

26:30processes because it's a food safety

26:31issue.

26:33And we had customer customer cleaning

26:35specifications that we had to also get

26:37approved changes.

26:40We're still working with suppliers and

26:41consultants to make sure we've got

26:43substitutes that will work. There's some

26:44concern that nothing will be as good as

26:47phosphoric acid and we could have other

26:49operational problems, but so far so

26:51good.

26:53Um we're we're we do are we are using a

26:55little bit more water at the moment

26:57because we're flushing and cleaning more

26:59with water.

27:00The phosphoric acid was

27:03ideal, not from a wastewater discharge

27:05perspective, however, but you already

27:07know that.

27:09Next.

27:13Next. We installed back in 2022 we

27:16installed a dissolved air flotation

27:18unit.

27:19And that's kind of standard treatment

27:21for removing phosphorus and it works

27:23pretty pretty well.

27:26But in our case it wasn't enough, wasn't

27:28adequate.

27:29So we've had sporadic violations for

27:31quite a while. I know it seems like a

27:33long lengthy record of

27:35violations, but

27:37we were struggling to get everything to

27:39work properly and get it all cleaned up.

27:42We got a second

27:43DAF online, dissolved air flotation unit

27:45went online in September.

27:48And we've been in good shape for the

27:49last

27:51well, since July 2nd we haven't had a

27:52violation.

27:54I mean, we've devoted a lot of attention

27:56and effort to this issue. It I hope you

27:58don't think we've been ignoring it. We I

28:00believe we responded with corrective

28:02action plans to the administrative

28:04orders.

28:05We've had had some turnover turnover of

28:08people, which has resulted in some

28:09paperwork issues.

28:11You can go to the next slide.

28:13This is the DAF unit sitting outside,

28:16the temporary one that we just got in

28:17and got installed. It'll ultimately get

28:20go in the building where the other one

28:21sits.

28:23Um but it's actually okay to sit outside

28:26because the water is warm. Wastewater is

28:28warm, so winter operation actually isn't

28:31that

28:32risky of an issue for us.

28:34Next and I'll talk about warm wastewater

28:36again.

28:38Next move we're going to make because we

28:40are not sure we can hold the line.

28:42We we've like I said we've been good

28:44since July 2nd, but in order to hold the

28:46line we're going to put in a dissolve

28:49flock coagulation rapid mix tank.

28:53And that's a standard piece of equipment

28:55that

28:56engineers recommend when you can't get

28:58enough removal out of your DAFs or with

29:00your precipitate with your chemicals.

29:03So we've got HDR engineering involved

29:05and they've recommended that we install

29:07a rapid mix tank

29:09which we will be doing.

29:12Next slide.

29:15This just shows the configuration of how

29:17it works with coagulation tank and

29:19flocculation and then flotation. So this

29:22is a way to improve phosphorus removal

29:24to take it to the next step and get the

29:26levels down even lower. So we've got a

29:28bit of a cushion and some safety there.

29:32Next.

29:36This is a list of the permit violations

29:38and

29:39the repeat violations have been

29:41primarily

29:43on phosphorus.

29:44Everything else has been one or two have

29:46violations not really repeat.

29:49But

29:49we listed out everything that we

29:51have had. We didn't I haven't gone back

29:542023 2021. We we went to 2025

29:58and moved forward from there.

30:01Next.

30:03We had one order rescinded because we

30:05missed

30:07Sarah thought we had missed a mercury

30:09sample, but we didn't. We had had taken

30:11it. So she rescinded the OA the AI

30:16I mean the AO and

30:18we were we were glad that she did that

30:20for sure.

30:22But we were hoping she would deal with

30:23another issue

30:25which was sample collection.

30:27You can go to the next slide.

30:29Our permit says that that West Boise

30:32sewer district will collect the samples.

30:35And they occasionally I think on one or

30:38two occasions have missed the samples

30:41and then we get cited for it,

30:43which doesn't seem fair.

30:45And Sarah mentioned it sounds

30:47counterintuitive, which it it is.

30:50You go to the next slide.

30:53This is her response and

30:55she basically said yes, it's

30:56counterintuitive, but Dairy Gold's

30:58responsible.

30:59Next slide.

31:01However, we can't get in to get the

31:03sample point. The compliance point is

31:05locked. West Boise Sewer District keeps

31:07it locked up, which is understandable

31:09too, but

31:10we're in a catch-22 where if they miss a

31:12sample, we take a hit for it and it

31:14extends our record and makes us look

31:17additionally bad for a

31:19because then if the they don't get the

31:20samples, we usually don't get the

31:22results in time and then the reports are

31:24late. So there's trickle-down effect

31:26with a lot of this stuff.

31:29Next slide.

31:32The request of the substitute data, the

31:34dissolved oxygen, I don't think we've

31:35had a dissolved oxygen issue maybe once

31:38in our history of operating that plant

31:40that with that with this permit.

31:43This may be the second one ever.

31:45It's not a repeat violation whatever, it

31:48this it was two events. The second event

31:51went on for 13 days in a row.

31:53The guys thought they checked different

31:56vessels and checked the meter and

31:57calibrated. It was a probe. The probe

32:00went bad and they just didn't pick up

32:01that issue. They missed it.

32:04But I'd like to request some substitute

32:06data at least be considered. You can go

32:08to the next slide.

32:10Just upstream of where we take that

32:12dissolved oxygen sample, we have two

32:14aeration tanks in the DAF.

32:16Both of those pump a ton of air into the

32:18wastewater. The wastewater never dipped

32:21below two while the probe was fouled,

32:24didn't work. So

32:25in reality, we didn't have a violation.

32:28We did on paper,

32:29but I'm sure the record would show, and

32:32we'll get to that in a second, that the

32:34dissolved oxygen was probably three or

32:37four or more

32:38at all times

32:40when it was discharged.

32:42Next slide.

32:44This is a substitute data from the

32:46aeration tanks and it shows that it we

32:49were above two that in our time period.

32:52And I this doesn't even

32:54take in consideration the DAF, which is

32:57also aerated vessels before the

32:59discharge. So in we really don't think

33:02we dipped below two at all. We just have

33:04the point of compliance dip below two

33:06because the probe failed.

33:09Next.

33:12Purchase capacity issue.

33:15There's confusion on this issue.

33:18Back in 2024 we began requesting

33:20approval to purchase more capacity.

33:23We knew we were going to need it.

33:24And we were told that we had to first

33:26show compliance and this was coming from

33:27Angela

33:29Angela Hardy.

33:31And she said we needed to show

33:34consecutive two consecutive months of

33:35compliance, which we did do on multiple

33:38occasions.

33:40And we were told that the city uses our

33:42meter as a point of compliance.

33:44But what's getting racked up as

33:46violations and exceeding the limits is

33:49the district's probe, which is an

33:51ultrasonic old technology system.

33:54And the the data is inaccurate.

33:57And we we have a whole rationale behind

33:59that. The water is warm. If you don't

34:01have automatic temperature compensation

34:02on your meter, it's inaccurate.

34:05So we're we're living with inaccurate

34:07data for quite some time. In fact, we've

34:09been paying 90 to $100,000 every quarter

34:12for excess volume that we didn't

34:14discharge.

34:17Next.

34:19This shows our monthly average

34:20discharges. There are only four

34:22violations up there for two years.

34:26But yet it appears we have violated if

34:28you look at the district's data.

34:30And then I'm I understand old meters are

34:32out there, but at some point you got to

34:34upgrade and catch up and give permittee

34:37holders a chance to

34:40comply with D with real data.

34:43Next.

34:45This is our data or this is our meter.

34:48We've offered to buy a meter for the

34:49district. We've offered to improve the

34:52flume. We've offered to get experts on

34:54board

34:55figure out exactly who's accurate and

34:57who's not.

34:58We strongly believe we've got the most

35:00accurate data when it comes to discharge

35:02volume

35:03versus the next.

35:06This is the district setup.

35:09It's

35:11it's just not from what we understand

35:14there's no temperature automatic

35:15temperature compensation and this this

35:18system even EPA doesn't recommend these

35:20systems anymore. They make a point to

35:23provide guidance on not using these.

35:27Next.

35:29The red line is the district's data from

35:31their flume.

35:33The blue line is our data from our mag

35:35meter.

35:36And you can see they're they vary quite

35:38a bit and it's because of the

35:39temperature of the wastewater

35:41and the and the lack of automatic

35:43compensation on the meter. We discharge

35:45wastewater at probably a temperature of

35:47about 85 to 90 degrees. That's because

35:50the digesters are biological systems. In

35:53fact they're called BVFs, bulk

35:56volume fermenters.

35:58The digesters are kept warm at about 98

36:00degrees. The bugs need that to do their

36:02job. It's an anaerobic digester setup

36:05and the bugs have to be kept warm

36:07and especially in heavy loading you keep

36:09it warm to keep it the activity up

36:12where it needs to be. But that that

36:14means we discharge a warm discharge.

36:17And that warm discharge goes through

36:18that small ultrasonic setup.

36:20Hell of a lot of

36:21condensation in there. The temperature

36:24is not compensated for in the meter

36:26automatically.

36:27And so we've been living with inaccurate

36:29data

36:30for a long time and it's played into a

36:32lot of other issues.

36:35Next.

36:38And then I just wanted to mention this

36:40inherent issue of

36:42processing 50 to 60,000 gallons a day of

36:44milk.

36:45All of these products have phosphorus in

36:48them.

36:48And when we concentrate up the protein

36:50and make a

36:51these specialized ultra filtered

36:53products

36:55if you spill that milk and it

36:57occasionally happens something falls off

36:59of the cart to the rack or a hose breaks

37:01or a piece of equipment malfunctions and

37:04you've got milk on the floor

37:05and it ends up at wastewater. That's

37:07phosphorus every day. So we we've got a

37:10heck of a challenge to tackle this

37:12phosphorus issue because it's inherent

37:14in our products.

37:16We we can get rid of all the cleaning

37:17acid which we've done. It's all gone.

37:20Everywhere in the plant.

37:22But we still are concerned and worried

37:24we're going to have sporadic violations

37:26as we have for the last two or three

37:28years

37:29because it's inherent in our in our

37:31system. So that's why we're going to put

37:33in the

37:34rapid mix coagulation

37:36tank to try to improve even further. We

37:39need to get down in the teens, low teens

37:42because occasionally we're going to

37:43fluctuate. There's going to be a milk

37:45spill or a cottage cheese spill or

37:47something in the plant which ends up in

37:49the wastewater and suddenly we've got a

37:52high load coming at us at the treatment

37:53plant.

37:55So we're fortifying and building up.

37:58I I think we've been doing everything we

38:00can for years.

38:02I know our record doesn't look good and

38:03doesn't show it but there's paperwork

38:06issues, there's miss samples, there's

38:09days that we just had too much

38:11wastewater and the wrong meters being

38:14looked at

38:15which goes into some of the calculations

38:17of other components.

38:19So I would ask that if anything else

38:22give us more time

38:24to

38:25show that we can be a good neighbor and

38:27a good industry and do things right.

38:29We're on the right road. We've worked at

38:31it for all this time. We've paid the

38:33fines, we've submitted the corrective

38:35action plans.

38:36We we've done everything we have been

38:38asked to do

38:40but it's just been a monumental struggle

38:42that we're

38:43where we feel we're finally on top of.

38:47I don't know what my time limit is.

38:51Am I?

38:54I'll I'll end there and and

38:56answer questions.

38:58Thank you for your time today.

39:01>> Thank you very much.

39:05We'll um

39:07the commission would like to pivot into

39:08[clears throat] sort of

39:09sort of a question and

39:12questions for both parties and

39:15so I will open it up

39:17to the commission and we can

39:20if it's okay call call up

39:22representatives from the

39:24the two organizations

39:26as needed.

39:27So

39:28commissioners

39:31any any

39:35anything you want to ask?

39:41>> Chair Warnes.

39:42>> Yes, commissioner Ellis.

39:43>> I have a question for Ms. Herron.

39:51Hi.

39:52Um

39:55I may not have written down the exact

39:57wording, but there were somewhere in the

39:59timeline

40:00you showed that you extended

40:03the the 18 months was an extended time.

40:05What was the regular time?

40:08>> Uh originally we can't start with

40:10anything further past nine months. So

40:12each compliance or milestone has to be

40:16at least has to be under nine months for

40:19each period. Mhm.

40:21>> And um I have more questions, Chair

40:23Warnes. Is that okay if I continue?

40:25>> Yes, continue on.

40:26>> Thank you.

40:27>> Chairman Ellis.

40:27>> Um

40:28when

40:30uh

40:31when you would communicate

40:34the out of compliance to Derek Gold

40:36and

40:37Derek Gold

40:39I'm not sure if they did every time, but

40:40there were their times but they showed

40:41us now

40:42this isn't new to you. This is

40:44information that they had been telling

40:46you why they couldn't meet things.

40:50>> Thank you, commissioner.

40:51Uh, yes, we've been in communication

40:53with Dairy Gold since the very

40:54beginning. Um, they've been very

40:56communicative over uh issues that they

40:58were having or needed extended periods

41:00of time to meet compliance goals.

41:03Um, a lot of what they brought up we

41:05know about previously. Um, I can't speak

41:08to West Boise Sewer District um or

41:10Billing because I'm not part of either

41:12of those groups.

41:13Um, but I can speak to what I know from

41:15them. Um, [clears throat] but yes, uh we

41:17were made aware of their flow meter

41:19issues between West Boise Sewer District

41:22um's flow meter and Dairy Gold flow

41:25meter. And so from the compliance

41:26standpoint, we took uh Dairy Gold flow

41:29meter for all pre-treatment compliance

41:32uh was based off of Dairy Gold's

41:34reported numbers including their flow

41:35meter and then their dio meter as well.

41:38It was all self-reported.

41:40>> And from [clears throat] your

41:41perspective,

41:42am I also understanding that they're

41:44they have an issue of

41:47that you guys have a difference of

41:47opinion of where the sample, who's

41:50taking the sample, and where the sample

41:52is taken?

41:54>> Thank you, commissioner and chair. Um,

41:57yes. So uh in Dairy Gold's permit, the

42:00sample location is defined as their two

42:03outfalls uh and the monitoring equipment

42:05that's combined with the two outfalls.

42:07This is the weird part where it is with

42:09West Boise Sewer District oversees and

42:12writes the original permit. Um, so in

42:15the original permit, West Boise Sewer

42:17District defined themselves hiring a

42:19private contractor to sample for Dairy

42:22Gold due to some compliance issues.

42:25Um, and so

42:27the city of Boise however views the

42:29enforcement as Dairy Gold should be

42:31conferring with West Boise Sewer

42:32District and with the private sampling

42:35company to make sure the samples take

42:37place because they are the owner of the

42:38permit, not West Boise Sewer District.

42:47>> Other questions?

42:52Chris Barnes.

42:54>> Mr. Chair.

42:56Um you mentioned and maybe this is for

42:57Mr. it Pettinger? Is that right?

43:00Uh

43:02you mentioned that

43:04the last

43:05uh phosphorus

43:07issue you had was this summer in

43:10June.

43:11July so okay so so the July second.

43:15Excuse me.

43:15>> me Chair. Just a point of order that for

43:17answering questions anybody who is um

43:20answering does need to be at the

43:22microphone so that it can be also

43:24captured in the recording. Thank you.

43:26>> So yeah you mentioned that the the last

43:28sample that you had last uh phosphorus

43:31issue you had was in

43:34>> July second.

43:35>> July second and then you also said the

43:37um

43:39the DAF unit the dissolved air flotation

43:41that you had a a second

43:44um DAF unit installed. When did you

43:47install that?

43:48>> September.

43:49>> Of this of this year?

43:52And we haven't you haven't had a

43:54phosphorus hit after that?

43:56Just been DO since then?

43:59>> Yes.

44:00>> Um

44:01do you anticipate that will solve your

44:04issues with

44:06the phosphorus the second unit?

44:09>> We believe it should. We have no reason

44:11to doubt it but we're going to put

44:13another one in because

44:15if anything would go wrong with say the

44:19operators left something flowing too

44:21fast or too hard or too long

44:24even for a few seconds

44:26if it is going to flush something out we

44:27got to catch it.

44:29So we we're putting that there as a

44:30safety net.

44:31>> Okay was that was that piece of

44:33equipment on order for a while or were

44:34you waiting for that

44:36as a result of Okay. How long is the

44:38lead time on that just curious?

44:40>> Um the first one we bought as a rental

44:43and we waited about three months to get

44:44it.

44:45The second one was about four months and

44:47we just decided to purchase it.

44:51>> And then it's I have a question is for

44:52legal on this Is it, is there an

44:53official

44:57um

45:00appeal

45:02from

45:04Dera Gold? And when was it?

45:07>> Yes, there is was an official appeal to

45:09the five-day notice of intent to

45:10terminate sewer. Um I believe that we

45:13submitted the notice of intent to

45:15terminate on October 21st and I believe

45:18it was delivered on the 23rd and we

45:21received the official notice of appeal

45:23from Dera Gold on that date.

45:24>> Okay.

45:28Can you Can you Can you tell me what the

45:30appeal is? Is that in the packet? Did I

45:31miss

45:32>> Yeah. Uh no, I can provide that on the

45:34record though. Um essentially it was

45:36just in the a request for a show cause

45:38and um an appeal and a show cause

45:40hearing. So that's why we're all here

45:42today is based on that action ask for an

45:45appeal.

45:45>> Would it be appropriate to ask what

45:46their what their what they're asking as

45:49part of that?

45:50>> Uh

45:51the the request for an appeal did not

45:53say anything substantively about why

45:55they were asking for the appeal, just

45:57that they would like the appeal. Um so

45:59there wasn't any particular reasons

46:01given in that notice.

46:07>> Uh can you give us more information on

46:09your appeal, what you're requesting?

46:13>> Yeah, I guess we're we were hoping to

46:15not get shut off.

46:17I guess our main request is to give us

46:19more time to

46:20show that we are doing the things right

46:22and including the paperwork and all of

46:25it.

46:31>> If there are other questions for Mr.

46:32Pettinger while he's up here.

46:34>> Chair, um

46:36Thank you.

46:37Um you mentioned that you um have a

46:40rapid mix coagular tank that um you plan

46:43on installing. Um how is that going to

46:46help um reduce some of these violations

46:48if you could try and explain that?

46:51>> Well, the way you get phosphorus out is

46:53you've got to put it in a either a

46:54precipitant or a filtration. You're able

46:57to filter it out. You've got to make it

46:58into a converted into a solid particle,

47:01coagulate and flocculate the the

47:04phosphorus particles so they're big

47:05enough to trap, settle, filter.

47:09And when you put the there's a two-step

47:11process. You put in a coagulant, charge

47:14neutralizer, and you put in a

47:15flocculant.

47:16We're going to when you put the

47:18coagulant in, it's supposed to be

47:20theoretically rapid mixed, exposed as

47:22quick as possible to all of the all of

47:24the components in the water,

47:26all of the things you're trying to

47:27remove. If you just right now we're just

47:29pumping it into the line.

47:32So it we don't know that it's getting a

47:34good enough mix.

47:36We we think if we disperse it through

47:38the entire body of water as it's coming

47:40through the plant

47:42very quickly within seconds that it'll

47:44have be much more effective. All the

47:46literature says that's the way to

47:47improve phosphorus removal.

47:50We've talked to engineering firms,

47:51several of them about that, and they

47:53said yes, it's worth doing, you should

47:54do it.

47:56>> And another question, Chair?

47:58>> Yes, Commissioner Pagan.

47:59>> Um

48:00you when do you anticipate that tank

48:03being installed at your facility?

48:06>> The engineering we've requested be done

48:08by the end of January.

48:10>> End of January.

48:12>> And they're working on it. They're we're

48:13paying an expedited fee on a lot of this

48:16stuff just

48:17to get it quicker than you'd normally

48:19get it.

48:21>> Thank you.

48:23>> Uh

48:23>> Chair, may I make a quick correction?

48:25>> Yes.

48:25>> I just wanted to correct the date of the

48:27notice of appeal. We submitted the

48:29five-day notice of intent on October

48:3115th and received their date of appeal

48:33on that same date.

48:34Thank you.

48:36>> Uh Mr. Bettinger, if I could

48:38uh I had wanted to follow up just a a

48:40clarification. You provided a fair

48:42amount of technical information on your

48:45attempts to bring the facility into

48:47compliance for phosphorus with the DAF

48:50tanks. You have two now.

48:52And is this just to clarify on

48:55on what Commissioner Pagan was asking?

48:57Is the coagulation tank something that

48:59works in conjunction with those DAFs?

49:02>> Yes.

49:03>> Okay.

49:03>> Yes, it's upstream of them. It's

49:05upstream. The DAF needs coagulant and

49:08flocculant in it to make particles that

49:11then the air floats it up to the top and

49:13you skim it off. That's the dissolved

49:15air flotation unit.

49:17To make that reaction even better in the

49:18DAF unit, the coagulant is added

49:20upstream, but it needs to be a rapid mix

49:23rather than just

49:24injecting it in a line.

49:28>> Helpful. Thank you. Thank you. Other

49:31questions

49:32from the commission?

49:36>> Chair

49:37Do you have a question for

49:39>> Commissioner Ellis.

49:43>> Is are you able to share the

49:46rough cost of the DAF units and the the

49:49mixers and coagulant?

49:51>> Yeah, the DAFs run in the neighborhood

49:53of $300,000.

49:55>> Mhm.

49:55>> The coagulants are an ongoing expense on

49:58a monthly basis. You got to keep pumping

50:00it in around the clock.

50:02And I believe we're paying about $800

50:04drum

50:05for that material. And we use a couple

50:07of drums a month.

50:09>> Mhm.

50:10Do do you also have to

50:13hire someone Is there now management of

50:17it or is it just included in included in

50:21in someone's position?

50:24>> You mean in our staff?

50:25>> Mhm.

50:26>> Yeah, we brought in a hired a young

50:28chemical engineer.

50:30Comes out of the water treatment field

50:32in Colorado in the oil fields.

50:34Used familiar with DAFs and the and

50:37getting out things like phosphorus. We

50:39hired him on. He's now in charge of the

50:41wastewater treatment operation.

50:45Good guy.

50:47He is should improve the paperwork

50:48significantly.

50:50We we had basically had maintenance guys

50:53who evolved into operators down at the

50:55treatment plant.

50:56And

50:57don't really have a technical

50:58background.

50:59>> Mhm. [clears throat]

51:00>> So we And we've also are shopping for an

51:02op- another operator right now,

51:04hopefully a certified operator.

51:07>> Can you also talk about

51:10from 2021

51:12to when you put in the first daf

51:15why it took that long?

51:18>> Yeah, we we got ahead of ourselves.

51:21There I believe that Dairy Gold expanded

51:23some operations and the thinking that

51:26the wastewater treatment plant they had

51:27built just a couple years prior was it's

51:30a very large facility

51:32that it would have the capacity to

51:33handle it.

51:35Technically speaking on

51:36reassessment it wasn't strong enough.

51:39And I was on board when this happened

51:41and I spoke up and said we've got to get

51:43in another daf. We already mean another

51:45digester. We have to build a new

51:47digester much larger than the one that

51:49we had. So we've got two of them now,

51:52but we were scrambling to get that built

51:54as quick as we could because we were

51:56having violat- multiple violations on

51:59COD, TSS, other violations because the

52:02solids weren't being captured in the

52:04digestion process and we weren't even

52:05heating the digesters at the time.

52:07Some of this has just

52:09come on board in the last two years

52:12where we've spent more time and effort

52:14technically getting the treatment

52:15process correct.

52:18We we've we've

52:20we've been

52:22too slow.

52:26>> And I imagine was it just hard to get

52:28agreement on the capital investment?

52:30>> Oh yes. They

52:32they wondered why, you know, because

52:34it's always been a little plant and been

52:36able to discharge with not much

52:39treatment. But when they en- when they

52:41started making more product the

52:43treatment plant had to take a jump into

52:46totally different technology and

52:49the digesters and the dafs and

52:52aeration tanks and

52:59>> Thank you. Um

53:01I might have more but I got to look at

53:02my notes. Thank you.

53:03>> Are there uh other questions from the

53:05Commission?

53:06>> Sure.

53:08>> Yes.

53:08>> Um, this question

53:09Thank you. This question's for Sarah.

53:18>> Um, so you mentioned that there's um the

53:21district and then there is a contractor

53:23who take the readings um at the plant.

53:26Um, as it was mentioned that maybe

53:28sometimes there those um readings might

53:31be missed. Is there any process that

53:33Dairy Gold can take um in order to

53:37um appeal that to the city or or tell

53:40the city that this reading has been

53:41missed, um record that in some way so

53:44that it's on record that um they've

53:47attempted to acknowledge that that's

53:49been missed or have reached out and

53:52hadn't haven't gotten that reading?

53:54>> Thank you, Chair, Commissioner.

53:56Uh, it's a really great question. Um,

53:58there are two different types of

54:00violations. One is if the city finds a

54:03deficiency in sampling, and the other

54:05one is if an industry tells us they have

54:07a deficiency in sampling that they

54:09identified themselves.

54:11Um, and those enforcement actions are

54:13pursued a little differently. If the

54:15industry tells us beforehand, uh we're

54:17able to

54:19uh

54:20do a phone call instead of a notice of

54:22violation or be able to um not enforce

54:24as strictly on those instances. Um,

54:28in this case uh West Boise Sewer

54:30District is the permit writer and um

54:32they oversee Dairy Gold's permit um and

54:35they did not want to modify the permit

54:37um to have Dairy Gold conduct their own

54:39sampling or contract someone to do it on

54:42their behalf.

54:44Did that answer your question,

54:45Commissioner?

54:46>> Um,

54:48I it's I still have a question. So um

54:51just for clarification, so the the

54:53district has not modified the permit to

54:55allow for Dairy Gold to do their own

54:57sampling, correct?

54:58>> Yes, that is correct.

54:59>> Um, so if they are not allowed to do

55:02their own sampling but say at the

55:04district or contractor has missed the

55:06sampling period.

55:09How is Dairy Gold able to

55:12notify either the district or the city

55:15that it has been missed and put that on

55:18record um

55:20yes.

55:20>> Um thank you Chair Commissioner. Uh

55:23they're able to contact us um and they

55:25have in the past as well letting us know

55:27that uh sampling was missed or delayed

55:30for some reason. Um ultimately it is

55:32Dairy Gold's responsibility to

55:34communicate with West Boise Sewer

55:35District and the contractor conducting

55:37the sampling to verify that it is taking

55:40place in the appropriate schedule.

55:42Um the contractor is aware of the

55:45situation as well and has been sending

55:47sample reports to both Dairy Gold and

55:49West Boise Sewer District.

55:52>> Thank you.

55:55>> Can I ask you um a little bit more about

55:58the metering issue? I I found that

56:01rather confusing.

56:02Um and I saw the the diagram presented

56:06by the appellant which showed a highly

56:07different

56:09um

56:10flow regime for their discharge um

56:13quantity I guess it's the the flow and

56:16if I heard correctly um you stated that

56:20you used the company's data

56:23for the purpose of

56:25I guess I wanted to kind of get it how

56:28that connects to some of the violations

56:31>> Yeah.

56:31>> cuz that wasn't totally clear to me.

56:34>> Thank you Chair. It's a good question.

56:36Uh so for the City of Boise's

56:38pre-treatment we use Dairy Gold's own

56:41flow meter. Um they have given us their

56:44calibration records and have given us

56:46outside data as well um that their

56:49calibration records are current um and

56:52their flow meter is trustworthy

56:54essentially. Uh so we use Dairy Gold's

56:56flow meter for all pre-treatment uh

57:00violations. So all the violations that I

57:01spoke about earlier were all based off

57:03of Dairy Gold's flow numbers in their

57:06own flow meter.

57:07Uh Dairy Gold and West Boise Sewer

57:09District uh West Boise Sewer District

57:11has their own flow meter in the line as

57:13well, which reads differently than Dairy

57:15Gold's. West Boise Sewer District is in

57:17charge of billing Dairy Gold, and that

57:19is the discrepancy see is in the on the

57:21billing side.

57:24>> Okay. Thank you. I so so that billing

57:27discrepancy is not really subject to

57:29this appeal. Is that correct? That is

57:31that's just another

57:33fact, but

57:35>> Yes, that is correct. Uh the billing is

57:37not under pretreatment.

57:38>> Okay.

57:39Thank you.

57:40Other other questions from the

57:42commission?

57:44>> Chair.

57:45>> Yes, Commissioner Morgan.

57:46>> Um Sarah, I had a question. The staff um

57:50asked to be able to have um the water

57:53shut off or the water treatment shut off

57:56for the two site points. I'm probably

57:58saying that incorrectly, so you can

57:59correct me there.

58:00Um but I wanted to ask is that

58:03indefinitely or is there a time period

58:05in which

58:06they I just want to understand what the

58:09what the actual request is from staff.

58:13>> Thank you, Chair and Commissioner

58:14Morgan.

58:15Uh so it's just a little different.

58:17Veolia is in charge of clean water.

58:19They'll still have clean water coming

58:20in. It is just their two industrial

58:22outfalls, the places that

58:25uh Dairy Gold's two industrial outfalls

58:28are where they connect to West Boise

58:29Sewer District's collection system.

58:32Uh our utility maintenance staff will

58:34put a plug a temporary plug in the line.

58:36It's filled like a sock filled with air.

58:39They have to check it manually every few

58:41days. Um it'll be right upstream of

58:43their uh West Boise Sewer District's

58:45flow meters so we can verify that no

58:47flow is passing through.

58:49Um this is the first time that we've

58:52ever pursued sewer termination in the

58:54history of our pretreatment program.

58:55It's been since 1985. Um so there's no

58:58set plan or precedent in place for how

59:01to restart sewer connection. However, we

59:04would treat them like a new facility.

59:06They would have to prove that their

59:07wastewater is in compliance somehow,

59:09whether that is through a contractor or

59:12consultant or a pilot system and then

59:15they would have to go through our

59:17billing and our connection uh process

59:20like a new industrial customer.

59:22>> Okay, thank you.

59:27>> Other questions from the commission?

59:32>> Commissioner Ellis.

59:32>> Thank you. It's a question for you as

59:34well. Um on the permit

59:37does it state

59:39uh

59:40how often

59:42the um the west sorry, the west district

59:46the district um

59:48is supposed to have sampled? Does it

59:50state does it say monthly

59:53bi-monthly?

59:55Do they communicate those dates to Dairy

59:57Gold?

1:00:00>> Thank you Chair Commissioner Ellis.

1:00:02Uh it is all in their permit how often

1:00:05the samples have to take place. Um for

1:00:08phosphorus and ammonia those are monthly

1:00:10samples. Mercury is semi-annually so

1:00:13twice a year and P Foss is quarterly so

1:00:16every quarter.

1:00:18Um the dissolved oxygen and there's also

1:00:21H2S and total sulfide are daily um so

1:00:24they have a meters in the line um and

1:00:28they submit those uh self monitoring

1:00:30reports uh from their meters daily along

1:00:32with pH.

1:00:35Uh and uh

1:00:38that's communicated with both Dairy Gold

1:00:40and West Boise Sewer District. Um I'm

1:00:43not [clears throat]

1:00:44aware if West Boise Sewer District and

1:00:46the consulting company tell Dairy Gold

1:00:48the exact dates of the sampling.

1:00:54>> Commissioner Commissioner Barnes.

1:00:57>> Uh so

1:00:58um Mr. Pettinger talked about some

1:01:00things that they've done

1:01:02the DAF units and then the coagulation

1:01:06improvements that are planned in

1:01:07January. Is that

1:01:10is that something you you were familiar

1:01:12with they were doing and I'm just

1:01:14wondering because we have a you know, we

1:01:15have a decision tonight whether to

1:01:18um recommend a denial of the of the

1:01:20appeal or to

1:01:23support or deny the appeal

1:01:26or to

1:01:28recommend approving an appeal.

1:01:31So I guess I I'm wondering why staff in

1:01:34seeing that the improvements are being

1:01:36done,

1:01:38what was the reasoning behind that

1:01:39that's not enough to make

1:01:42a decision to

1:01:44to approve the appeal.

1:01:46>> Thank you, Chair, Commissioner Barnes.

1:01:49Uh I'll answer kind of twofold. Um

1:01:51firstly, yes, I was aware of the ongoing

1:01:54and continued ongoing compliance efforts

1:01:56that Dairy Gold has done. They have put

1:01:57a lot of work into their facility since

1:02:00uh the operational incident in 2021. Um

1:02:03that map with all of their pretreatment,

1:02:05a lot of that has been assessed and a

1:02:07lot of it put in place since that

1:02:09incident.

1:02:10Um

1:02:11originally a second DAF unit was

1:02:13suggested by Dairy Gold uh back in 2024

1:02:17as part of that 18-month compliance

1:02:18period. That was one of their goals and

1:02:20one of the things they were going to do

1:02:21was install a second DAF unit in order

1:02:23to meet phosphorus goals.

1:02:25Uh

1:02:26throughout the process, they decided

1:02:28that they did not need a second Dairy um

1:02:30DAF unit and they did not install one,

1:02:33uh which is fine with pretreatment. Um

1:02:35the industries describe what they're

1:02:37going to do to meet compliance and as

1:02:39long as they meet compliance, uh that's

1:02:41all that we ask for. They don't have to

1:02:42stick with their compliance

1:02:45uh schedule or stick with their

1:02:46compliance

1:02:48uh efforts that they're doing. They can

1:02:49always change or readjust as needed.

1:02:52Uh so that kind of answers the first

1:02:53part. Yes, we are aware of their ongoing

1:02:55compliance efforts and they have done a

1:02:57lot of work to try to meet uh compliance

1:02:59limits and their permit limits. Uh we

1:03:01just haven't seen sustained compliance.

1:03:04Um

1:03:05the

1:03:06second um part to your question as well

1:03:09is

1:03:10uh we have to follow our enforcement

1:03:12response plan. Um so that starts with a

1:03:14notice of violation for numerical permit

1:03:16violations and then increases to an

1:03:18administrative order.

1:03:20And then the next step should be a

1:03:21judicial action and sewer termination.

1:03:24We were able to stay in the

1:03:25administrative order section longer due

1:03:27to increasing fines. And then in on the

1:03:30June 30th administrative order, we

1:03:32capped out the fines at $1,000 per

1:03:35violation per day.

1:03:37Um so we're therefore not able to

1:03:39increase our fines, so we can't show

1:03:41increasing enforcement. Our next step is

1:03:43sewer termination. So in order to treat

1:03:46all of our industries fairly, we have to

1:03:48follow our enforcement response plan um

1:03:50as DEQ requires. Thank you.

1:03:56>> Other questions from the commission?

1:03:58Commissioner Lockett.

1:03:59>> Thank you, Chair and uh Ms. Heron,

1:04:03question please on the uh memo.

1:04:06Um item number three in the memo.

1:04:08It's reference the cities had 13 other

1:04:10significant industrial users including

1:04:13another dairy that have consistently met

1:04:15the regulatory compliance. My question

1:04:18specifically please is is that other

1:04:20dairy in the West sewer district

1:04:23or is it um in a different sewer

1:04:25district within the city's purview?

1:04:28>> Thank you, Chair, Commissioner Lockett.

1:04:30Uh no, it's in a different uh it's

1:04:32within the city of Boise sewer district.

1:04:35Uh West Boise sewer district only has

1:04:37the Dairy Gold as their significant

1:04:39industrial user.

1:04:41>> Are there any of the 13 noted in the

1:04:43memo or any of those in the West

1:04:45district

1:04:47other than Dairy Gold?

1:04:48>> No, it is just Dairy Gold.

1:04:50>> Thank you.

1:04:55>> Any other questions from the commission?

1:05:01Okay, um

1:05:03hearing none, I think we will then you

1:05:05can stay

1:05:07stay up there Ms. Heron for the the

1:05:09rebuttal.

1:05:13Thank you very much.

1:05:16>> Thank you, Chair, commissioners for

1:05:18hearing me today.

1:05:20Um I would like to recognize that Dairy

1:05:22Gold has done a lot of effort and has

1:05:25made a lot of improvements in their um,

1:05:28pre-treatment program since the

1:05:29operational incident in 2021. However,

1:05:32through all of their treatment and all

1:05:34of their process changes, we have still

1:05:35yet to see a defined period of

1:05:37compliance.

1:05:38Um,

1:05:40this

1:05:41the enforcement decision must also

1:05:43consider whether the facility

1:05:45will be able to stay within its permit

1:05:47requirements moving forward as well.

1:05:55The decision must be based on the full

1:05:57compliance record starting in 2021, um,

1:05:59not just the uh, October 5th and those

1:06:03prior days leading up to the DEO

1:06:04enforcement as well.

1:06:06Uh, Dairy Gold had a defined opportunity

1:06:08to achieve and maintain compliance under

1:06:10the June 30th administrative order

1:06:13and the subsequent monitoring record

1:06:15documented repeated violations at the

1:06:17end of September.

1:06:19Uh, the city's recommendation reflects

1:06:20the permit requirements, enforcement

1:06:22history, the escalation process that was

1:06:24already communicated to Dairy Gold, and

1:06:27following our enforcement response plan

1:06:29as DEQ requires. Thank you for your

1:06:31time.

1:06:32Thank you, Chair.

1:06:34>> Thank you so much.

1:06:35Um, Mr. Pettit here, would you

1:06:38or anyone representing the appellate

1:06:40just your chance to rebut?

1:06:48>> Why I just like to note that we don't

1:06:50know when

1:06:51West Boise Sewer District is going to

1:06:53sample.

1:06:54So we don't we we have no way of knowing

1:06:57they missed a sample unless we're

1:06:59standing watch or have some way to know

1:07:02that

1:07:03they should have been there

1:07:05because they could decide to sample at

1:07:07the beginning of the month or the end of

1:07:08the month and

1:07:10I I didn't maybe maybe maybe their

1:07:11manpower isn't available or

1:07:14we we have no idea they missed the

1:07:16sample until it's too late and then that

1:07:19triggers right late reporting which is a

1:07:21violation linked to not being able to

1:07:25I mean, we

1:07:26we would sample ourselves like most

1:07:28permit tees do across the US.

1:07:31But I think this goes back to the old

1:07:33days when the industry when the the

1:07:35regulators didn't trust the industries

1:07:37and the industry didn't trust the

1:07:38regulators.

1:07:40Nowadays, you have an incentive to do it

1:07:42right and sample fairly and accurately

1:07:45according to the regulations.

1:07:48You don't play games with this stuff.

1:07:50So I mean, we volunteered to do the

1:07:52sampling or pay a third party to do the

1:07:54sampling. We just didn't want it missed

1:07:57and then suddenly be surprised that

1:07:59we've fallen behind on everything that

1:08:00that

1:08:01triggers

1:08:02because we don't know when they're going

1:08:04to sample.

1:08:07That's really the only

1:08:09comment I

1:08:10wanted to get to you.

1:08:12Thank you.

1:08:15>> Thank you.

1:08:20So now the commission has the

1:08:22opportunity to deliberate and discuss um

1:08:25what we've heard today

1:08:27and

1:08:29move towards um

1:08:31a decision. We have as much time as we

1:08:33need to talk

1:08:34amongst ourselves about this.

1:08:38Would anyone like to kick this off?

1:08:48>> Chair.

1:08:49>> Commissioner Morgan.

1:08:51>> I will just say that I am struggling to

1:08:56come to any sort of conclusion for

1:08:57myself personally. I feel like

1:09:01I don't understand the science and like

1:09:03being able to we didn't get any

1:09:05information from Darego until today and

1:09:07so being able to have more time to be

1:09:08able to consider that information I

1:09:10think would be helpful for me, but I

1:09:12also

1:09:13want to hear your guys' thoughts because

1:09:15it feels

1:09:16I just feel uncertain. That's where I'll

1:09:19start the conversation.

1:09:24>> Uh

1:09:26Commissioner Morgan, I'm I'll

1:09:28validate what you just said. I'm very

1:09:30much so. Um,

1:09:32I [clears throat] feel like there um

1:09:34this is coming before the commission

1:09:37and there was a lot of information

1:09:39presented

1:09:40rather abruptly. Just not having

1:09:43anything in advance from the appellant

1:09:46was difficult to then process, you know,

1:09:49difficult for us to process.

1:09:51Um,

1:09:52so I I want to acknowledge that that is

1:09:54one of the things that makes this

1:09:56difficult.

1:09:57I'll also uh put out there that this is

1:10:00a pretty

1:10:02rough record for compliance for the

1:10:04company. That's a

1:10:06that's a

1:10:07not been impressive since 2021 and

1:10:11that said, it's acknowledging that

1:10:14the bar has changed

1:10:17for

1:10:18for basically all the permittees

1:10:21phosphorus um

1:10:23is really been cranked down on the

1:10:25federal, state, and local level and

1:10:29that

1:10:30comes up basically upstream to the

1:10:32companies that are responsible for

1:10:34pre-treatment.

1:10:35Um,

1:10:36so

1:10:38um

1:10:40I guess I just I just want to say I'm

1:10:42real concerned about the level of

1:10:44non-compliance

1:10:46um that's been exhibited over time. I

1:10:49also want to acknowledge that the

1:10:50company I believe is making sincere

1:10:52efforts to try to address those. It just

1:10:55feels like it's coming

1:10:58coming um or been difficult. It's been

1:11:01um erratic over the last several years.

1:11:03So I think that's part of the dilemma is

1:11:06seeing some good faith

1:11:09stated but perhaps the record isn't so

1:11:12good.

1:11:15Other commissioners?

1:11:18Commissioner Pagan.

1:11:20>> I would agree with what you both said.

1:11:22Um, I think

1:11:24it's hard to kind of come to terms with

1:11:27all the data that's been presented in 20

1:11:29minutes. Um,

1:11:31I

1:11:34understand the city's um, stance that,

1:11:36you know, they've gone through the

1:11:37process and they have to be fair to all

1:11:39their industrial users

1:11:41that are on the system.

1:11:43Um, but

1:11:45I'm curious to know kind of what these

1:11:48maybe new tanks and and things would do

1:11:51to help

1:11:52bring them into compliance. And so I'd

1:11:54be curious

1:11:55to know maybe if does that

1:11:58you know,

1:11:59help or or is it still an issue sort of

1:12:03thing?

1:12:04Um, I can understand the frustration of

1:12:07maybe not having a consistent reading.

1:12:11Um,

1:12:12but I also think that

1:12:14it's up to Derry Gold if you want to

1:12:17kind of do your own readings and then

1:12:18report those. Um, it sounds like the

1:12:20city is willing to take those readings

1:12:22um, so that you can make sure that you

1:12:25don't miss a report of some kind. So if

1:12:27you

1:12:28um, you know, set your own schedule then

1:12:30at least um, you know for sure that

1:12:33that's something that's taken care of

1:12:36and you maybe aren't missing something

1:12:37or missing a report of some kind.

1:12:40Um,

1:12:41and if the city takes that, great. If

1:12:42the city's taking the the contractor um,

1:12:46reading then that's another discussion

1:12:48point. But

1:12:49um,

1:12:50yeah, I think that there's

1:12:53yeah, I'm still conflicted on on this.

1:13:00>> Other comments?

1:13:03>> Uh, Chair, thank you. I I would be

1:13:06concerned about any precedents we set

1:13:08today. This is a big deal and these are

1:13:09major violations over a significant

1:13:11amount of time.

1:13:12And so I would be concerned if we

1:13:17didn't address them

1:13:19uh, because we have certain requirements

1:13:21from the Department of Environmental

1:13:22Quality that we understand came from

1:13:25staff.

1:13:26Um,

1:13:27there are lots of others that are in

1:13:30compliance.

1:13:32I think I think it's a tough one, but uh

1:13:35I think

1:13:38I'm undecided at this point, but I think

1:13:39we have to remember that in our

1:13:41deliberations.

1:13:46>> Commissioner Ellis.

1:13:48>> And fellow

1:13:51persons um

1:13:54I'm just thinking I'm drawing off of my

1:13:55experience um in manufacturing.

1:13:59And

1:14:01could be wrong, but this looks a lot

1:14:03like

1:14:07leadership within the company.

1:14:11It's not taking it seriously.

1:14:13And it's taken a long time

1:14:16to get

1:14:17this to

1:14:18bubble up to the level of complexity and

1:14:22seriousness.

1:14:24And um

1:14:27finally some decisions were made to

1:14:32change things, make some improvements.

1:14:36It's a little bit too late. We're you

1:14:37know now all of a sudden we're kind of

1:14:39on this

1:14:40close timeline here. Um I'd like to see

1:14:44um how this new equipment and new

1:14:46process

1:14:48uh does, how it performs. Um looks like

1:14:51it's promising, but it does need more

1:14:53time to be reliable.

1:14:56And um I just I'm

1:15:00I'm personally not happy with how long

1:15:02it took. Um

1:15:05there could be lots of reasons. Um but

1:15:10I think it goes back to leadership.

1:15:12Yeah, it's usually what happens is the

1:15:16do we really really really really have

1:15:17to spend the money on this?

1:15:19And it becomes harder and harder

1:15:21sometimes to to convince leadership to

1:15:23do that. So

1:15:25um it's cost of business. If you want to

1:15:26do business,

1:15:28got to follow the rules.

1:15:30Got to budget your time and money and

1:15:32resources

1:15:34to follow the compliance.

1:15:40>> Commissioner Barnes.

1:15:42>> I think that

1:15:44um tonight with

1:15:46uh Darrigo we've kind of experienced a

1:15:47little bit of what the staff

1:15:49has been going through. We we didn't get

1:15:51a formal presentation on what you're

1:15:54doing. We're asking a lot of detailed

1:15:56questions, but there's nothing in

1:15:57writing. There's no plan there.

1:15:59And so I mean I I from what I heard that

1:16:02you guys have put some effort into it

1:16:03and a lot of money.

1:16:05Um you've also paid a lot of money in

1:16:06fines, which

1:16:08um

1:16:09I think

1:16:11you know it would have been a much

1:16:12easier meeting if we had more

1:16:14information than that. So we did I did

1:16:16hear some things that were positive like

1:16:17the

1:16:18the plans that you have in place,

1:16:20but I also see you know years of

1:16:23excellent staff work where they

1:16:24documented everything and that's

1:16:26according to our permit. And and

1:16:28anything that um we fail a permit as the

1:16:31city here we're

1:16:33that I mean that is documented. We're

1:16:36um on the hook for that. It could

1:16:37increase measures for the city. There's

1:16:39a lot of

1:16:40um that is um

1:16:43I I think

1:16:45that that would put the city in a in a

1:16:47in a bad spot. Also there's construction

1:16:49going on. The well was just out there. I

1:16:50saw the crane, so

1:16:52if there is a a hit we have to take care

1:16:54of those treatment issues and we may be

1:16:58in a place right now where that would be

1:16:59even more difficult. So I kind of feel

1:17:02like I I

1:17:03I

1:17:04um

1:17:05understand maybe how it's gotten here

1:17:07because we don't have a formal plan. I

1:17:09mean if you had an engineering study and

1:17:11said hey we need three months and you're

1:17:13going to have this in place and that in

1:17:14place and the DL's going to be dropped

1:17:15and the DAF is going to impact these

1:17:17other issues that we're having a hit,

1:17:19but

1:17:20so on the other side I think I didn't

1:17:22have we didn't have a like I guess a lot

1:17:24of information and that's I can concur

1:17:26with

1:17:27that I have learned some things here

1:17:29just because it wasn't put in writing,

1:17:30but you did speak it

1:17:32and presented that. So I I am torn

1:17:34because it's such a

1:17:36huge decision to do this. The gravity of

1:17:40terminating service to a industry with

1:17:43people working there and and and the

1:17:45good work you guys do in the community.

1:17:47So

1:17:48um

1:17:49I'll stop there for now and

1:17:55>> Other thoughts, other questions

1:17:57Commissioner Ellis?

1:17:58>> Thank you chair. I had one more question

1:18:00if

1:18:01you know if the

1:18:03I forgot to ask this earlier. You turn

1:18:05off the the sewer

1:18:07outfall then

1:18:10then what? Are they trucking it out?

1:18:12They're trucking out the wastewater?

1:18:14What are they doing with the wastewater?

1:18:16I forgot to ask.

1:18:19>> It's an excellent question and I have to

1:18:20ask procedurally.

1:18:22Are we able to ask that question of the

1:18:25appellant at this point?

1:18:27>> Yes, you you could ask. I would give

1:18:29both staff and the appellant the

1:18:30opportunity to respond.

1:18:32>> Yeah. Why don't we start with Mr. Mr.

1:18:35Pettinger if you want to respond to that

1:18:37as far as the consequences to the

1:18:39company of

1:18:41of having your two outfall shut down

1:18:44or your two

1:18:46I guess

1:18:47industrial discharge points, I don't

1:18:49know what you call them.

1:18:51>> Yeah, we would

1:18:52we would have to shut the plant down. We

1:18:55we wouldn't be able to truck that much

1:18:56wastewater out

1:18:59in a in a day.

1:19:00You know it's

1:19:02300,000 gallons of wastewater a day and

1:19:06there's nowhere for it to go.

1:19:09And the cows farmers would probably

1:19:11start dumping milk cuz they couldn't

1:19:13ship it to us.

1:19:15We'd send our 200 employees home. We

1:19:18we we'd have to shut down.

1:19:20Just

1:19:22I don't see any other logical way

1:19:25through it.

1:19:29>> Thank you.

1:19:31Yes, Ms. Hero.

1:19:36>> Thank you chair, commissioners.

1:19:38We're not requiring Dairy Gold to shut

1:19:40down. We just have to stop their

1:19:42non-compliant wastewater coming into our

1:19:44West Boise Water Renewal Facility. It is

1:19:46up to them to decide what makes the most

1:19:49sense financially for their business,

1:19:51whether it is or is not trucking out um

1:19:53their wastewater. There are multiple

1:19:56locations that they could send it to um

1:19:58including other cities that take hauled

1:20:00waste. Uh, the city of Boise does not

1:20:02though.

1:20:03Thank you.

1:20:04>> May I follow up, please? Just what what

1:20:08would you estimate I mean, do you have

1:20:10any Again, perhaps this is too much on

1:20:12the spot, but 300,000 gallons of

1:20:14wastewater

1:20:15trucked to a another to a treatment

1:20:18plant? Is that what you're saying,

1:20:18another municipal treatment plant that

1:20:20would accept that?

1:20:22>> Uh, yes. So, there's a couple many of

1:20:23municipalities around um the Treasure

1:20:26Valley that take hauled waste. Uh, there

1:20:28are also other facilities that take

1:20:30other kinds of hauled waste. For

1:20:32example, there's facilities that will

1:20:34take mostly like fats, oils, and grease

1:20:36kind of waste um which a lot of dairy

1:20:38product byproduct from their wastewater

1:20:40treatment plant would essentially fall

1:20:42into uh along with uh LNR who takes uh

1:20:46like more hazardous waste as well.

1:20:48Um, I'm not aware of the costs. Uh, we

1:20:50leave that up to uh the industries to

1:20:52decide what makes the most sense for

1:20:54them.

1:20:55Thank you.

1:20:55>> Thank you very much.

1:21:01Commissioner Barnes.

1:21:02>> Commissioner can can legal go through

1:21:04our options, our decision options for

1:21:05us?

1:21:07>> Absolutely. Thank you Commissioner

1:21:09Barnes. Um,

1:21:11so

1:21:13if you wanted to confirm staff

1:21:15direction, that would be a motion to

1:21:18deny the appeal and confirm staff

1:21:20direction. The recommendation if you

1:21:23were to go that direction would be to

1:21:25set a date certain for termination so

1:21:27that there isn't ambiguity in the

1:21:29record.

1:21:31Another option would be to grant the

1:21:33appeal

1:21:34with conditions, meaning that if you

1:21:36grant the appeal, sewer would not be

1:21:38terminated right now, but the Public

1:21:41Works

1:21:42would need to put forward what

1:21:43conditions attached to that grant of an

1:21:46appeal. So,

1:21:47instead of terminating if the commission

1:21:50decides to delay,

1:21:52there needs to be a very clear record on

1:21:55what is to happen within that delay.

1:21:58Does that answer the question for you,

1:22:00Commissioner Barnes?

1:22:04>> Yes, and can we if after this can we ask

1:22:06a question of staff based on if that

1:22:08were to happen, if we were

1:22:11if or if I was to vote for

1:22:15the appeal?

1:22:17I mean, I have questions regarding

1:22:19what's the ramifications if we do that?

1:22:22Could we put ourselves in a place,

1:22:24you know, like with DQ?

1:22:27I I just lots of questions for this

1:22:28second option.

1:22:30>> Um with respect to the second option, I

1:22:32would defer to what staff

1:22:35has provided on the record. Um this

1:22:38this governing body does by our

1:22:40pretreatment code have the right to hear

1:22:42an appeal and a show cause hearing. So,

1:22:45by that nature of it being in code, you

1:22:47all have some discretion and would

1:22:50likely keep us within

1:22:52um

1:22:54within our requirements with respect to

1:22:55the permit,

1:22:57keeping in mind that there does need to

1:23:01be at some point the end goal of

1:23:03bringing them into sustained compliance.

1:23:07Um again, does that help answer your

1:23:08question?

1:23:09>> Yes. Thank you.

1:23:14>> Sorry. Commissioner Pagan.

1:23:16>> Thank you, Chair. Um just a point of

1:23:18clarification, when we're talking about

1:23:20specific conditions, do we have to name

1:23:23um certain types of compliance um

1:23:27numbers that they would have to achieve

1:23:29or is that something we could leave to

1:23:31staff?

1:23:32>> Uh then

1:23:34by your deliberations, you cannot change

1:23:36any of the conditions in their permit.

1:23:38So, their permit in indirect discharge

1:23:40permit would remain the same. The

1:23:43conditions would be with respect to

1:23:45coming into compliance and by when.

1:23:47>> Okay. Thank you.

1:23:49And then just a question for the rest of

1:23:52the commission. Um

1:23:54Commissioner Barnes, you mentioned that

1:23:55you wished that there was some sort of

1:23:56like engineering plan or something in

1:23:58place. If they had something like that,

1:24:00would it help with any kind of direction

1:24:04given to Dairy Gold by this commission?

1:24:06Would it help to have

1:24:08some sort of plan set of like

1:24:12an engineer firm has come in and said

1:24:13like these things will help reduce

1:24:16phosphorus or other wastewater products

1:24:20and

1:24:22give clear steps on going forward or is

1:24:25that something that feels arbitrary at

1:24:28this point?

1:24:30>> You might want to pass that off to

1:24:31Public Works. Like did they

1:24:33I don't think we've seen anything like

1:24:35that from Public Works.

1:24:38Sarah, so

1:24:40I think it would personally be helpful

1:24:42if they had a plan in place, but that

1:24:43was supposed to be part of their

1:24:46um

1:24:49what I mean that was one of these items

1:24:51on here they were supposed to have a

1:24:52long time ago. I guess that's the that's

1:24:54the whole discussion point. But yes, it

1:24:57would be great if we had that right now.

1:25:03>> Other um

1:25:04I guess um trying to

1:25:07get a get a better sense of uh the

1:25:10commission's leanings here. Um

1:25:13and we are

1:25:15um

1:25:16trying to trying to move ourselves

1:25:18towards a decision and torn in some

1:25:21regards.

1:25:22Um

1:25:23just toying with the idea

1:25:26I guess of um

1:25:29is there what are what are what are

1:25:32thoughts from the commissioners about

1:25:35essentially granting an appeal with a

1:25:40um compliance schedule

1:25:42with date certain for compliance in the

1:25:45near

1:25:48The concern I have with that is the

1:25:50precedence,

1:25:52the history of non-compliance. It's a

1:25:54it's frankly generous in my opinion to

1:25:57do that. I offered this only for

1:26:00purposes of trying to move us

1:26:03towards where are we leaning here.

1:26:06Um and and maybe council will tell me if

1:26:09that's

1:26:11if that's a flawed idea, but it's the

1:26:13idea that

1:26:17the company will be back in this exact

1:26:19spot if they

1:26:21don't come into compliance in a

1:26:24reasonable time period,

1:26:26which I don't know exactly what I would

1:26:28call that, but it would certainly be

1:26:31um

1:26:32less than three or four months

1:26:34depending cuz we don't have any other

1:26:36data I guess. I mean that's kind of

1:26:37where

1:26:38where I'm thinking. So I'm putting that

1:26:40out not as because that's exactly where

1:26:43I am, but as a

1:26:46trying to bring

1:26:47some discussion to this matter

1:26:49and find if we can get ourselves to a

1:26:51place of

1:26:53what makes sense.

1:26:57>> Um

1:26:58>> Commissioner Ellis.

1:26:59>> Thank you, Chair Wertz.

1:27:02I have no sense of how long it's going

1:27:05to take to troubleshoot the the new DAF

1:27:08and the second DAF

1:27:10and the uh

1:27:12upcoming

1:27:13pieces that are coming in January. I

1:27:15mean

1:27:18it could be

1:27:19something simple could take a month,

1:27:21something like this could take a year

1:27:23before you keep dialing it in and I I I

1:27:26just have no sense of how long that will

1:27:27take.

1:27:28And that's my um feeling as well as I

1:27:32want to give them a break. I don't want

1:27:33them to have to shut down. I know it

1:27:35will take a lot of money no matter what

1:27:38they do.

1:27:39Um

1:27:41but how many times do you give them um a

1:27:44break and

1:27:46hope that

1:27:48they get in compliance and they're

1:27:49hoping it's in compliance too.

1:27:51And and also I'll add on the side is if

1:27:55if they really took this seriously,

1:27:57they could have been sampling themselves

1:27:59anytime they want. They could have been

1:28:01sampling every day. They could have been

1:28:04paying out if it was worth it for them

1:28:06to see where they were. They didn't have

1:28:09to wait for anybody. They could have

1:28:10sent the sample themselves and sent it

1:28:12away to get analyzed.

1:28:14Cost money.

1:28:15Understand that, but

1:28:17they could have done that on their own

1:28:18anytime.

1:28:23>> Um let me get um

1:28:25>> Sure.

1:28:25>> uh Commissioner Barnes and then we'll

1:28:27come to you Commissioner Morgan.

1:28:29>> Uh Mr. Chair, uh Leo, would it be

1:28:31appropriate to ask Mr. Pettinger

1:28:35what

1:28:36his plan is

1:28:38if we were to

1:28:41approve the appeal?

1:28:43>> Uh if the commission feels that they

1:28:45need additional information to be able

1:28:47to

1:28:48to deliberate, um then I would suggest

1:28:50the chair

1:28:51do allow that additional question, um

1:28:55again providing an opportunity for both

1:28:57parties, meaning the city and the

1:28:59appellant to provide an answer to

1:29:01whatever question is asked.

1:29:04>> Okay. Um

1:29:06um Commissioner Barnes, I'll ask Mr.

1:29:08Pettinger to come back up and you can

1:29:10ask.

1:29:18>> Mr. Pettinger, what what um

1:29:21is your plan for compliance as as part

1:29:23of your request for

1:29:25an appeal?

1:29:27>> Well, we we would have come with

1:29:29engineering plans.

1:29:31It's just this was so quickly scheduled

1:29:33when we requested it.

1:29:35We didn't

1:29:36we didn't have time to get them on board

1:29:38and specify, you know, work out a scope

1:29:41and but we do we always do that with

1:29:43engineering firms.

1:29:44Have a complete design package and a

1:29:46scope of work and the schedule and all

1:29:49of that stuff is normal for us to do.

1:29:52So, we would go down that road again

1:29:55by employing or using the services of

1:29:58professional engineering

1:30:00to come in and look at what we've

1:30:01already

1:30:02have planned on our own

1:30:04with and HDR has been involved with all

1:30:07of this. So, they're we would probably

1:30:09continue to utilize some of their

1:30:11services,

1:30:12maybe ask to get some other opinions,

1:30:14but we would produce an engineering plan

1:30:17that specified what we are going to do

1:30:19and when we are going to do it and what

1:30:20it is going to accomplish.

1:30:22And as far as samples go,

1:30:25we did do all kinds of troubleshooting

1:30:27samples,

1:30:28but they weren't

1:30:30the ones that we were talking about that

1:30:32were specified in the permit have to be

1:30:34collected by West Boise Sewer District.

1:30:36But for troubleshooting, we we did

1:30:38collect a lot of samples

1:30:40across the from the influent to the

1:30:42effluent to all the process tanks.

1:30:46>> Okay, so engineering probably take

1:30:496 months just to get going.

1:30:51Is but is there a do you have a specific

1:30:53plan cuz we're not talking 6 months.

1:30:57Um

1:30:59>> Yeah,

1:30:59>> you're you need to get in compliance as

1:31:01far as the permit for Boise. So,

1:31:03what specifically can you

1:31:05information can you give us

1:31:07what can be done by January? You've

1:31:09talked about improvements there, but

1:31:12>> Yeah.

1:31:13I don't think it'll take that long

1:31:14because we it's 6 months because like

1:31:17HDR is familiar with our plant already.

1:31:19A lot of the they've done a lot of the

1:31:21work there.

1:31:23So, we would get them on board quickly

1:31:26and put together an engineering plan

1:31:29that goes through the process, assesses

1:31:32what needs to be done, confirm whether

1:31:34we need to put a DAF or

1:31:37floc and coagulation tank in.

1:31:40I believe they will confirm that cuz

1:31:41they've already verbally said told us,

1:31:43instructed us that's what we need to do.

1:31:49I I think we could make quick use of the

1:31:53time and get something by the end of

1:31:55February

1:31:57back with a an engineering package of we

1:32:00could pull the trigger and

1:32:02start on it right away.

1:32:06>> Thank you.

1:32:07>> Thank you.

1:32:10>> Process question. Do I need to provide a

1:32:13rebuttal

1:32:14at the for equal time at this point?

1:32:16>> Yes. We need to provide

1:32:19staff an opportunity to respond to any

1:32:21of staff.

1:32:22>> Ms. Heron.

1:32:29Um I'm confused. Okay.

1:32:31>> Sure. Maybe I'll jump in with staff. Um

1:32:34yeah, I appreciate uh Mr. Pettinger's

1:32:36perspective. I I think Commissioner

1:32:39Barnes is hitting on our frustration is

1:32:41we're

1:32:42in this spot again

1:32:44where we're going to be waiting for a

1:32:45report.

1:32:48Um having staff go out, work with them

1:32:50on a um

1:32:52an extension. We've We've been down this

1:32:55road. Um

1:32:57and so

1:32:58I think you're experiencing a little bit

1:32:59of what the staff's experienced, what

1:33:01you alluded to. It's like

1:33:02I I'm

1:33:03I guess if I were threatened with

1:33:05termination

1:33:07from my sewer provider,

1:33:09I would have come tonight with

1:33:11a lot of details of how I'm going to

1:33:12address this. And if I'm asking for more

1:33:14time, here are the exact dates.

1:33:17Here's the contract that is going to be

1:33:19signed. Here's the scope of work.

1:33:21We will get in compliance by this date.

1:33:24So we're not seeing that. So that's

1:33:27that's our perspective.

1:33:31>> Thank you.

1:33:33Yes, Commissioner Morgan, even waiting

1:33:34very patiently.

1:33:35>> Oh, no worries. Um

1:33:38Mary,

1:33:39um I just wanted to ask I know that this

1:33:42goes to city council at some point if

1:33:44there can you remind me of that step?

1:33:47>> Um it would not automatically go to city

1:33:49council. So the Public Works Commission

1:33:51is the deciding body on this. Um if

1:33:55either staff or the appellant are not

1:33:58satisfied with the decision that's made

1:34:00by the Public Works Commission, they

1:34:02have the opportunity to file a written

1:34:04notice of appeal within 10 days of the

1:34:06written decision and appeal this to City

1:34:09Council to have it heard. That again,

1:34:11that process is not automatic, um but it

1:34:13is available.

1:34:14>> Okay, thanks Marie.

1:34:16>> Um one other thing I may just add um

1:34:20that I should have clarified up front is

1:34:22that any appeal stays any decision. So

1:34:27if there for example a decision to

1:34:29terminate sewer,

1:34:31an appeal to City Council would stop

1:34:33that termination from occurring until

1:34:35after the appeal for City Council has

1:34:37occurred and the same would be if there

1:34:39was a decision to provide a compliance

1:34:41schedule um and the staff appealed, that

1:34:44compliance schedule would be stayed

1:34:46until the appeal was heard.

1:34:48>> Okay, thank you Marie.

1:34:51Okay Chair.

1:34:52I can I continue?

1:34:53>> Yes, please Commissioner Morgan.

1:34:56>> So let me just talk through some of my

1:34:57thoughts based on um how staff has moved

1:35:00through a progressive enforcement

1:35:02schedule and been clear from the

1:35:04beginning of the process

1:35:06um to and given many opportunities to

1:35:10get into compliance.

1:35:12Um I trust our Public Works Department

1:35:14and feel like they have worked really

1:35:16hard to ensure that they have given all

1:35:19the opportunities to do that. Um and I

1:35:23agree

1:35:24um Commissioner Lockett that I feel that

1:35:26we have a really

1:35:29big shoes to fill in terms of setting a

1:35:31good precedence because this hasn't

1:35:33happened before in this specific way um

1:35:37and being mindful of maintaining quality

1:35:40service um and making sure that our

1:35:42facilities are running well and not

1:35:45being impacted by phosphorus effluent. I

1:35:48don't know if I'm saying that correctly

1:35:49and managing staff time. Um I my I'm

1:35:53starting to lean more towards um staff's

1:35:57move to

1:35:58um

1:36:00terminate the service

1:36:03for treatment.

1:36:07>> Thank you and other commissioner

1:36:09thoughts on that.

1:36:16>> I concur. I was

1:36:19I was leaning toward you know

1:36:22giving more time but they're not even

1:36:23close to having

1:36:25a plan ready

1:36:26um and so I kind of

1:36:28see um the liability before the city

1:36:33and this is part of the decision making

1:36:35process with our permit.

1:36:37Um I think we gave them the benefit of

1:36:39the doubt and went the extra

1:36:41miles and years here but there's nothing

1:36:44that I've heard tonight

1:36:46um from Derry Gold although I you know

1:36:48the the company appreciate your company

1:36:50and the service and what you do in the

1:36:52community but

1:36:53um it puts the

1:36:54the city at incredible liability if

1:36:57we're supposed to be in compliance we're

1:36:59getting hits

1:37:01and there's not a plan in place to fix

1:37:02it we're just going to ride that out

1:37:05and potentially it's going to hurt our

1:37:06permit and

1:37:07um our

1:37:08you know relationship with other clients

1:37:11and

1:37:12customers so I I am too um

1:37:15leaning that way after the discussions.

1:37:24>> Commissioner Ellis no.

1:37:30I'm

1:37:31um going to share I guess the the

1:37:33reminder that um legal just gave us

1:37:35about the appeals process

1:37:38uh allowing the appellant to continue

1:37:42operating while they

1:37:44um work through it meaning they can go

1:37:47to the city council they can go

1:37:49to judicial review

1:37:51and continue to operate and I would hope

1:37:54continue to

1:37:56try to come in compliance at that same

1:37:58time

1:37:59that somehow

1:38:01seemed appropriate um given the long

1:38:04history of difficulty and

1:38:07frankly having trouble seeing

1:38:10there's been some steps but there isn't

1:38:12like a holistic

1:38:13and determined plan that I've been

1:38:15convinced of um

1:38:18so I too am am leaning towards

1:38:21appeal denial

1:38:23at this point.

1:38:31>> Mary, I can make a motion but I need you

1:38:34to step me through it.

1:38:36>> Not a problem.

1:38:37>> Welcome a motion at this point.

1:38:39>> Um so I make a motion to approve staff

1:38:42um is it that way or do I go to deny the

1:38:46appeal?

1:38:46>> Um if if you are confirming staff

1:38:49direction, it would be a motion to deny

1:38:51the appeal.

1:38:52>> Okay.

1:38:52>> Confirm staff direction and then the

1:38:55recommendation would be to set a date

1:38:56certain.

1:38:57>> Okay. And do I say the date?

1:39:01>> Yes. Provide the date on the record.

1:39:03>> Okay.

1:39:04Oh okay.

1:39:06Lots of steps. Okay. I move to deny the

1:39:10appeal and

1:39:12um

1:39:15set the date certain or do I missing one

1:39:17to

1:39:18>> Confirm staff direction.

1:39:19>> Confirm staff direction and set the date

1:39:22for and this would be for council to

1:39:25note

1:39:26>> It would be setting a date for the date

1:39:28that sewer service will be terminated.

1:39:31>> Oh okay. And

1:39:32set the date

1:39:34um

1:39:36I

1:39:37don't love

1:39:39um

1:39:42Yes, can we discuss that? So like we're

1:39:45now tabling my motion.

1:39:47>> No no that's fine. We can bring come

1:39:49right back we can come back to it but

1:39:51let's discuss the date.

1:39:53>> Do we need to make a motion to withdraw

1:39:54her motion first before discussion?

1:39:57>> No, without a second the motion dies.

1:39:58>> Perfect.

1:39:59>> Okay.

1:40:02Does anyone have strong inclinations or

1:40:03thoughts on a date?

1:40:06>> I I

1:40:07maybe this is a place where we could

1:40:08give a little bit more like a a couple

1:40:11months or I and I'd be open to

1:40:13discussion on when. I mean a month seems

1:40:16really difficult to get their ducks in a

1:40:17row maybe and a plan in place but

1:40:20um maybe maybe two months and I'd be

1:40:24open to any other input on that but as

1:40:26far as

1:40:27maybe that's a place where we can

1:40:30um

1:40:31work with the with their goal to bit.

1:40:35>> That was my inclination as well.

1:40:38>> Uh

1:40:39so a a date of something around January

1:40:424th is that what we're talking about?

1:40:49Other commissioners thoughts on that?

1:40:51>> I might recommend maybe February 4th or

1:40:54like the beginning of February

1:40:56um because with the holidays um and

1:41:00maybe appealing to the city council um

1:41:04it might take that long just to get in

1:41:06front of city council.

1:41:13>> Other thoughts?

1:41:20>> Mr. Chair I would support the

1:41:22February date also.

1:41:24>> All right.

1:41:26Um

1:41:27commissioner Lockett.

1:41:29>> Well

1:41:31I

1:41:32I I I I don't agree with that timeline.

1:41:34I um I think it needs to be like January

1:41:3615th.

1:41:39Business will go on as usual. That's not

1:41:41our business. That's not our decision.

1:41:42That's certainly up to them to run their

1:41:44operations as they see fit. We just need

1:41:46to follow we have a duty

1:41:48a duty to serve in a way that's uh fair

1:41:53and equitable across our um

1:41:56industrial users and across our

1:41:58districts of water so I feel like

1:42:02um January 15th is a bit of a concession

1:42:05to commissioner Barnes point to get you

1:42:07guys some time to do some things.

1:42:10Um, but I I don't I don't want to wait

1:42:11till February. I think this is pressing.

1:42:18>> Can I make a motion?

1:42:19>> Thank you.

1:42:20>> Um,

1:42:21shall we shall we go uh

1:42:24Commissioner Ellis, are you

1:42:26providing a motion or

1:42:28>> Uh,

1:42:29no. I am

1:42:31It's 10 weeks starting tomorrow

1:42:35to the 14th of January is 10 weeks.

1:42:39So, are are we proposing

1:42:42they have until January 15th? Is that

1:42:44what did I hear you right? Was that that

1:42:46was an Well, that's a another idea that

1:42:48has been proposed.

1:42:51Okay.

1:42:53>> Just to clarify

1:42:54um Commissioner Ellis, you're you're

1:42:55concurring that that's a good date in

1:42:57your view. Okay.

1:42:59>> Yeah.

1:43:00>> Um, I would support that

1:43:02as well.

1:43:06>> Okay.

1:43:07>> back to Commissioner Morgan who's got a

1:43:09>> I can put the motion back out. Yeah.

1:43:12So, I make a motion to deny the appeal

1:43:15and um take staff recommendation

1:43:18and um set a date certain for January

1:43:2215th

1:43:23for

1:43:25for termination.

1:43:28Thank you.

1:43:33>> Okay. Um, just

1:43:35I'm going to repeat the motion. Is that

1:43:37okay? So, deny um the the motion to deny

1:43:40the appeal, confirm staff direction,

1:43:43and

1:43:45terminate

1:43:46>> Set the date certain for January 15th.

1:43:49>> Set date

1:43:51certain for termination

1:43:55January 15th.

1:43:58Do we have a motion on the table? Do I

1:44:01have a second?

1:44:05>> I second it.

1:44:08>> Excellent.

1:44:09Any discussion

1:44:11needed?

1:44:15We're going to

1:44:15go through and do a

1:44:19voice vote individually for this

1:44:22particular item. So I'll start

1:44:25Please indicate aye or nay

1:44:28starting with Commissioner Barnes.

1:44:32>> Yes.

1:44:33>> Commissioner Ellis.

1:44:36>> Aye.

1:44:39>> Commissioner Lockett.

1:44:41>> I can pass for now and vote at the end.

1:44:45Madam

1:44:46>> Yes, as long as you cast a

1:44:50>> Commissioner Morgan.

1:44:51>> Yes.

1:44:52>> Commissioner Pagan.

1:44:54>> Aye.

1:44:56>> Commissioner Lockett.

1:44:57>> Aye.

1:44:59>> Okay. The vote is unanimous

1:45:02and the issue

1:45:05or the the motion passes.

1:45:10Moving

1:45:11moving on to the next item, agenda item.

1:45:15Yes.

1:45:16>> Chair, make make make a point of order.

1:45:19Just confirming that written decision

1:45:21will be provided after this hearing and

1:45:24it's from that written decision that any

1:45:26further procedure can take place. But

1:45:28just wanted to put that out on the

1:45:30record so everyone is aware that that

1:45:31will likely occur this coming week.

1:45:33That written decision.

1:45:35>> Okay.

1:45:36Thank you.

1:45:40Okay. So

1:45:41next up on our agenda, I know it's been

1:45:44a long meeting, but we have

1:45:46elections for

1:45:50our chair and our vice chair

1:45:53this afternoon.

1:45:55And we have

1:45:57required quorum to be able to to be able

1:46:00to do that.

1:46:03So first up is

1:46:05our chair

1:46:07and

1:46:08wanting to hear

1:46:10are there any nominations for the chair

1:46:12position?

1:46:15>> Chair, I was going to ask if there's

1:46:16anyone who's interested because I

1:46:17haven't heard word from anybody, so.

1:46:22>> I do know that our current chair, um

1:46:25um Mr. Gravat is uh willing and I

1:46:29believe interested.

1:46:30>> Okay.

1:46:31Is anyone else interested?

1:46:33Just out of curiosity.

1:46:37Have you enjoyed your role as or the

1:46:43>> I'll tell you about it later.

1:46:47My inaugural meeting. Um yes. So I mean

1:46:50uh

1:46:51did you want to make a motion or were

1:46:53you just asking?

1:46:54>> I'm just asking just so that way I can

1:46:56know how to nominate.

1:46:57>> Okay.

1:47:00Hearing hearing none.

1:47:02[laughter]

1:47:02Do I do we have a nomination for

1:47:06um for chair?

1:47:09>> Chair I have a question. If the person's

1:47:12not here, usually they're asked I think

1:47:14if they're if they want to be nominated.

1:47:17So it sounds like you already know that

1:47:19he Okay.

1:47:20>> I I know enough. I think he he's not

1:47:24able to be here, but I believe he

1:47:26indicated his interest. So

1:47:28appropriate

1:47:30to nominate and decide based on on that

1:47:32information.

1:47:36>> Mr. Chair.

1:47:37I

1:47:37>> Yes

1:47:38uh Commissioner Lockett.

1:47:39>> Thank you. I move to nominate uh Crispin

1:47:42Gravat as our chair for the next term of

1:47:46the Public Works Commission and accept a

1:47:48nomination on his uh behalf in his

1:47:50absence.

1:47:52Um

1:47:53period.

1:47:56>> Do we have second?

1:47:56>> I'll second.

1:47:58>> Thank you.

1:48:00Motion is approved. Oh wait oops.

1:48:03I'm getting tired. I 'm so sorry.

1:48:09All in favor

1:48:11please say aye.

1:48:12>> Aye.

1:48:13>> Aye.

1:48:14Any

1:48:16>> Hearing none,

1:48:17the motion carries.

1:48:20The next selection is for vice chair. Um

1:48:23um

1:48:24in the officers and do I have a

1:48:26nomination for vice chair?

1:48:31>> Chair Wernz, I have a question. I'm

1:48:32going to follow

1:48:34Is anyone interested? I haven't heard

1:48:37anything either and I haven't asked.

1:48:39>> I'm I'm I'm still interested.

1:48:41>> Okay.

1:48:43Excellent.

1:48:44>> I'm reconsidering, but I'm still

1:48:45interested.

1:48:49>> Chair, I'll make a nomination for

1:48:52Commissioner Wernz to be the vice chair

1:48:54of this um Public Works Commission for

1:48:57the next term.

1:48:58>> Thank you, Commissioner Morgan. Do we

1:49:00have a second?

1:49:01>> I will second.

1:49:02>> Thank you, Commissioner Pagan. And um

1:49:06all in favor, indicate with an eye.

1:49:10>> Aye.

1:49:11>> Aye.

1:49:11>> Any opposed?

1:49:14Hearing none, motion passes.

1:49:18Um

1:49:19great. So thank you everybody for your

1:49:20support. Um so the next um next item up

1:49:24is the commissioner's forum and I'll

1:49:26turn it over to Director Burgos um to

1:49:29kick that off.

1:49:30>> Thank you, Chair. Just a couple things

1:49:32real quick. Uh we had a 50th anniversary

1:49:34for West Boise on

1:49:36I think it was yesterday.

1:49:38Was it yesterday? Okay.

1:49:39Um

1:49:40it was just a We had a tree planting

1:49:42just with staff and and Commissioner

1:49:43Barnes, thank you for showing up and

1:49:44just

1:49:45representing the commission. That was

1:49:46very very nice of you to be there.

1:49:48Um it was just a recognition of the 50th

1:49:51year since 1976. It's hard to believe

1:49:53that's the younger of our two plants.

1:49:55Yeah, the new plant, right. Uh so

1:49:5750-year milestone and it's just a

1:50:00a good time for us to reflect on all of

1:50:03the folks that have contributed over the

1:50:04years. Um Ben Nighdegger, the Ops

1:50:07manager, made a comment that we stand on

1:50:08the shoulders of those who came before

1:50:10us. So uh it was just a really nice

1:50:12event, low key, um just a chance to

1:50:14recognize the all the the folks who have

1:50:17been there before and then

1:50:18kind of where we're headed in the

1:50:19future. So

1:50:21um and that's really all I just want to

1:50:23mention. I know we're running late, so

1:50:24be respectful of your time.

1:50:26Unless you had questions for me,

1:50:27anything that you're hearing in the

1:50:28community, any questions you might have.

1:50:30>> Any questions from the commission

1:50:32or other things to offer up during our

1:50:35forum time?

1:50:40>> Chair Wertz.

1:50:40>> Yes, Commissioner Ellis.

1:50:42>> I just wanted to thank everybody. I

1:50:45really appreciate the team of people

1:50:47sitting here asking really good

1:50:49questions and that really helped

1:50:51kind of feed other questions. I just

1:50:53really want to thank you. I think that

1:50:55that was a lot and

1:50:56I think all of us took it very seriously

1:50:58and I appreciate that very very much.

1:51:05>> Thank you and that I feel the same way.

1:51:08Appreciate that too.

1:51:09Um any other commissioner input on

1:51:12during the forum or

1:51:16>> Chair, um sorry to interrupt.

1:51:18Uh Jesse sent me just sent me a chat.

1:51:20The 2027 dates we're trying to set.

1:51:23Um

1:51:24I don't it's not like you have to firm

1:51:26the dates, but just was there any date

1:51:27that dates that jumped out that was like

1:51:29that's a non-starter for me.

1:51:31Um

1:51:32just more than anything trying to firm

1:51:33the dates.

1:51:34Sure. Um

1:51:38they're probably in yeah in the packet.

1:51:39Let me see if I can pull it up real

1:51:40quick.

1:51:44>> So the yeah

1:51:46the back

1:51:47>> it here it is. Okay, so our proposed

1:51:49meeting dates are March 3rd,

1:51:52June 2nd,

1:51:56September 1st,

1:51:59and November 3rd.

1:52:03>> Chair, I will say the only

1:52:05date that I have a conflict is a

1:52:07proposed backup date and that's October

1:52:086th, but all else looks

1:52:12>> Thank you that I'll go through the

1:52:13proposed backup dates are April 7th,

1:52:16July 7th,

1:52:19October 6th,

1:52:22and December 1st.

1:52:29>> And uh chair

1:52:30>> Chair, the only one I just know offhand

1:52:32is March 3rd, but that's that doesn't

1:52:35mean I can't make the April 7th backup

1:52:36date, but March 3rd I know I can't.

1:52:39>> Okay. Director Director Wray, can I ask

1:52:41you we have no January meeting? Is that

1:52:43correct then? March would be our next

1:52:45meeting?

1:52:46>> That is correct.

1:52:47>> Okay.

1:52:48Okay.

1:52:49Thank you.

1:52:51Do we have any other business

1:52:53today?

1:52:57Well,

1:52:59hearing none, can I have a motion to

1:53:01adjourn?

1:53:03>> Chair, I so move.

1:53:04>> Ah.

1:53:05Thank you, Commissioner Morgan. Second?

1:53:08>> Second.

1:53:09>> Thank you, Commissioner Barnes. Um

1:53:13um all in favor, say yes or aye.

1:53:16>> Yes.

1:53:16>> Aye.

1:53:17>> Aye.

1:53:17>> Any opposed?

1:53:19The motion carries. We are adjourned.

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