2026-11-09 - Planning Commission

>> Thank you, Chair.

>> Thank you, [Commissioner]. [Commissioner].

>> Um, the agreement that you reached with the homeowner uh is it just these two item um one is the uh uh

numbering of the house and the landscaping. Are there any other agreement with the homeowner that's not

listed here that you could summarize for us?

>> Thank you, Commissioner. At this time, based on our assessment, no. The work plan only includes these three

items. That's not to say that when we reassess the property though, which is required every five years

through a self-reporting process, that we wouldn't identify any other work plan items that we can

recommend. Um, as it happens with properties, they deteriorate. Um, elements need to be replaced. So,

although nothing else is needed at this point, in five years that could be different.

>> Those two items seem to be ordinary maintenance things and the number identification seem to be something

that is needed and required by law, right? So, what in those agreement what uh what and how does it

contribute to the historical status of the property? Cuz that's the main point, right? That we're giving

them uh historic designation.

>> I think you're I thank you, Commissioner. I understand your question. Um, the property is really well

maintained. Um, we can't make up things for them to do if it's not required. So, often it's the case in

Santa Ana and it's different at every city you go to um that property owners invest the money up front to

maintaining the homes. That is replacing non-compatible windows, replacing roof. So, it's often the case

that they've spent an x amount of money to bring the property back to its historic sort of integrity even

before a property is listed and often they get feedback from the city that that's um in the case of like

vinyl windows.

>> And and how often after this is granted uh that um the city will go out and visit um this and other um

designation in the neighborhood.

>> So by state law reporting is required every five years and so as has been brought up before at this meeting

the city's working through a self-reporting program to make it easier to monitor four 500 plus properties

that are currently on the Mills Act agreement. And so based on um again just general wear and tear of homes

we'll be able we'll be better able to assess the properties needs at that time.

>> Uh thank you and and I'm going to be asking the same question uh regarding this and commercial properties

now uh you know to to look at our role in terms of maintaining uh maintenance of of properties that we we

um approve conditional use permits for. So it's not just for this particular property but um I'm going to

be asking more for other future ones that come before us too as a way of um uh dealing with the uh the the

the comments that we get from the community. Thank you very much.

>> Thank you commissioner thank you [Commissioner]. Do we have any other comments or questions from the

commission? Great seeing as we have no other comments or questions at this time the public testimony

portion of the public hearing is now open. Would the applicant like to speak on the matter?

>> Um good evening. Well first of all thank you so much for allowing us to submit our application but um I'm

really excited to be here and uh we just moved to Santa Ana a few I think it's three years ago. We bought

our initial property in Santa Ana and part of the reason why we came to Santa Ana from South County was

because we were actually drawn to the beautiful historic homes in in the neighborhoods around here. We were

drawn by the diversity, the beauty, the history, and it was with the eventual goal of actually owning a

historical home. So our first home was you know we weren't able to register it under the historic Mills

Act. But a year ago we got this opportunity from a neighbor within the same neighborhood that we had just

moved into. And they understood our passion and love for first of all for Santa Ana, for historical homes.

And they offered us the opportunity to purchase their house off the market. So we take we took that

decision and we made that move because we really really believe in keeping the integrity of the home that

we purchased and we're really really excited about that. So and and really exciting things about the home

that we purchased was that you know it was built in 1956 like [name] had mentioned for [name] in 1956. And

what's been really interesting is that there's only been four owners so far. We're the fourth owner and

each owner that has owned this house so far have been really great stewards of maintaining the integrity of

the home. So with that comes like all of the fun quirks like you're mentioning or asking like the hand

cranking of the windows you know they don't close all the way but we believe in holding on to that. We will

not be changing that and actually any changes that we do decide to make moving forward will only be with

keeping that historical architectural integrity to that house. So we're really excited about that. So we

will continue being stewards of our home and yeah I think that's all I can say. If you have any questions

for us though like I said we're here.

>> Thank

>> you.

>> Yeah.

>> Do any commissioners have any questions for the applicant? I'll begin with [Commissioner].

>> It's more of a comment than a question. I um thank you for investing so much into your home. I live outside

the 500 ft radius to be clear. Um but I do walk my dogs by there and I have seen the the upfront cost that

would put into the home when it turned over into your ownership. So I do um I do understand an investment

was made to maintain the historic value or the nature of that home.

>> Thank you.

>> Thank you. We appreciate that a lot. And I'm a history major also, so I I really do believe it it's

important and important and it's part of the story of Santa Ana. So we're proud to be a part of it. If if

we're

>> Thank you. Go ahead, [Vice Chair].

>> I also like to echo uh [Commissioner]'s point to thank you because I know it's a labor of of of love in

these homes and I it's very nice. I I love the way it looks on it. I also was impressed with the crank

windows because as a kid growing up in Detroit, that's what we had and yes, I spent many time lubricating

getting those things to work cuz it got darn cold and it closed all the way in the wintertime [laughter]

out there. So I do appreciate it. I do want to thank you for putting your interest in Santa Ana and good

luck with this project.

>> Thank you so much. We really appreciate it. Thank you. Thank you, [Vice Chair]. Do we have any other

comments or questions from the commission? I'll just add and say thank you for being here tonight and I can

definitely hear the passion that you have for this and it sounds like the home will be in very good hands.

So

>> Thank you.

>> Thank you for going through this process. Uh with that, thank you. Recording Secretary, have we received

any written communication or is there a member of the public that would like to comment on this item?

>> Chair, we have not received any public comments. If you're attending this meeting in person and would like

to comment on this item, please fill out a request to speak form and turn into the secretary. If you're

participating via Zoom and would like to comment on this item, please select the hand icon and indicate

that you would like to speak. If you're calling in and would like to comment on this item, please dial star

nine and then star six to unmute yourself. I will wait a few seconds. Chair, we do not have any speakers at

this time.

>> Thank you. With that, the public testimony portion of the public hearing is now closed. Is there a motion

to approve this matter?

>> I move.

>> We have a motion from [Commissioner]. Is there a second?

>> I second.

>> We have a second from [Vice Chair]. Secretary, can you please call for a roll call vote?

>> [Commissioner]?

>> Aye.

>> [Commissioner]?

>> Aye.

>> [Commissioner]? [Commissioner]?

>> Aye.

>> [Commissioner]?

>> Aye.

>> [Vice Chair]?

>> Aye.

>> [Chair]?

>> Aye.

>> Good luck. Good luck. Thank you.

>> Motion approved by majority vote with [Commissioner] absent.

>> Thank you. Congratulations. We'll now move on to land use matters. We're going to go We're going to start

off with item number two. This is the time and place for conditional use permit CUP number 2026-0017 for

the property located at West 17th Street, located within the community commercial C1 zoning district.

Before we begin, do any commissioners have anything they wish to disclose with regard to this item? See

there are no disclosures. The case planner, [name], will provide a brief presentation.

>> Thank you, Chair. Uh thank you and fellow commissioners. The item will The item before you is conditional

use permit number 2026-0017 located at West 17th Street within Ward three. The applicant is requesting

approval of CUP number 2026 - 007 0017 to reestablish a laundromat within an existing 2051 square foot

commercial tenant space. Staff is recommending the commission adopt a resolution approving CUP 2026 - 0017

as conditioned. Additionally, at the time of publishing this report, staff had no initial public comment.

Since publishing, uh 30 comments have been submitted to the city, 29 opposing and one in support. The site

is designated under the general plan land use designation of general commercial and the property is split

zone as community commercial C1 and two family residential R2. The use is entirely within the C1 zoning

district. Surrounding the site are single family residential uses towards the north and commercial uses

towards the west, east, and south. The lot size is approximately 61,438 square feet and um 1.4 acres. The

property was developed back in 1990 as a two units as a two building multi-tenant commercial center

addressed under West 17th Street. West 17th Street measures around 10,482 square feet and West 17th Street

is approximately 3,760 square feet. The laundromat was established in 1990 uh as a by right use. Following

Following the adoption of ordinance number NS 2135 in 1991, the laundromat became a legal non-conforming

use. The laundromat opened uh between 1990 and 2022 uh pursuant to Santa Ana municipal codes 41 - 683 a

discontinuation of a non-conforming use for 10 12 consecutive months requires any subsequent subsequent use

to comply with the current zoning code regulations. In 2026 uh renovations were submitted to the city to

rehab the commercial center inclu include facade uh modifications, parking enhancements, landscaping

improvements, and an ancillary storage improvement in the rear. Uh these are under consideration under a

separate application. Presently the applicant is requesting approval of CUP number 2026-0017 to reestablish

a laundromat within an existing 20 2,051 square foot commercial tenant space. The proposed laundromat would

include 29 washing machines, 15 dryers, and other minor interior tenant tenant improvements. There's no

expansion of the existing building footprint as proposed. Services would include self-service laundry,

accessory sales of laundry related products and a fluff and fold service. There's no dry cleaning proposed

on site. Proposed operation hours are 7:00 a.m. through 10:00 p.m. 7 days a week. And pursuant to Santa Ana

municipal code 41-365.5G the planning commission approval of a CUP is required to establish a laundromat

facility. Here is a site photo of the sites. This was taken recently in October. The red outline is where

the unit 102 is located where where the laundromat is going to be. And that's facing the 17th Street so

that will be the rear entrance or rear exit. And then here is a site plan. What's indicated in the gold

star is the primary entrance. Here's the floor plan. There's the interior of the fluff and fold closet.

There's a restroom. There's the laundry facilities with their machines, the washer dryer machines, and then

the back back room areas here. for servicing. Here are the elevations of the sites, the facilities outlined

in this gray color. As for a project analysis, the proposed laundromat would reestablish a neighborhood

serving commercial use with within an existing commercial center, providing convenient laundry services to

nearby residents without expanding the existing footprint of the building. The proposed use would

complement the surrounding commercial activities and support a continuation of a continue utilization of

the commercial center. The laundromat would be required to comply with the operational standards

established by Santa Ana Municipal Code section 41-199 which include installation of no loitering signage,

video surveillance, adequate lighting, unobstructed windows, and other safety requirements. Additionally,

the previous laundry mat the previous laundromat that operated at this location for 32 years 32 years had

no prior documentation with code enforcement for any violations. The commercial center abuts a single-

family residential neighborhood towards the north which requires additional consideration for potential

impacts related to noise, lighting, customer activity, and vehicular movements. Conditions of approval have

been incorporated to minimize potential disturbances to adjacent residentials including noise controls,

shielded exterior lighting, and restricted restrictions on any outdoor storage. Commercial deliveries would

also be restricted between 7:00 a.m. and 8:00 p.m. to minimize any potential impacts to surrounding

residential properties. As conditioned, the proposed laundromat would be compatible with the surrounding

commercial and residential uses and satisfy the requirements for CUP findings. The proposed laundromat is

consistent with the general plan land use designation of general commercial, which supports commercial and

service oriented uses along major corridors and near residential uses. The proposed project supports land

use elements goal LU two, economic prosperity goal L EP one and policies LU two point one, LU two point

two, LU two point six, LU two point eight and EP one point two which all encourage a balance of mix um

which all encourage a balance of mix of land uses, support local economic activity and promote reinvestment

in existing commercial properties. The project is consistent with land use element goal LU four and policy

LU four point one by reestablishing a neighborhood serving use that provides convenient access to laundry

facilities for surrounding residences. As conditioned, the proposed laundromat would be compatible with the

surrounding commercial and residential uses and is consistent with the city's city's general plan and would

not adversely affect any of uh applicable specific um plan. In accordance with the California Environmental

Quality Act and the CEQA guidelines, the project is exempt from further review pursuant to section 15301 of

the CEQA guidelines, class one existing facilities. Based on an analysis, a notice of exemption um of a

environmental review number 2026-056 will be filed for this project. Additionally, there's no physical

impact associated with this action. With that said, uh staff is recommending approval of a resolution

approving CUP number 2026-0017 that's commission. Uh the applicants also um here in the audience and staff

is available for any questions.

>> Thank you. Does the commission have any comments or questions for staff? [Commissioner].

>> I I my original thought was I haven't this many comments in a long time. 29 for, one against.

>> Can you speak into the mic?

>> Oh. The Was there a meeting with the with the neighborhood? Did Did anybody talk to the neighborhood? Like,

did they know this is coming? I mean, I'm I'm asking the question because normally what we do here is did

you meet with the neighborhood association? Did you meet with the impacted residents? Did you Did they, the

applicant, meet with the residents?

>> So the site was noticed and the It's under my understanding that the owner actually met with the

neighborhood a couple days or weeks ago. But that was entirely independent of the ownership.

>> So that's my first question. My My second question is we're We, this group here, spent three long meetings

with the zoning code code ordinance update. How does this How would this fit in to the zoning code

ordinance update that's going to be in front of the city council soon? Does it Does it comply? Does it not

comply?

>> This would be a by right use under the new zoning code update in its current draft form.

>> Okay.

>> I can add to that, commissioner. This use is contemplated in the zoning code update as a permitted use as

[name] mentioned by right. So if the city council were to approve as proposed currently, this application

would be able to move forward without actually coming before this body and it would just be a plan check

application at that point.

>> Okay. My My next question is where is the other nearest laundromat? There's one across the street, right?

>> Yes, that's correct.

>> Okay. So here's here's where I'm coming from. I want staff to kind of help me out. We have the Bowers

Museum, which is not far from this. If are trying to improve and upgrade the corridors, we are putting the

same thing that was in there before. This this that side of the street, I'll be honest, looks tired. Needs

a refresh. Right? Have we thought beyond just the laundromat? They have seven spots, coffee shops, other

things that could go there that benefit the residents that live behind it. Because what we don't want to do

is create something that eventually becomes a nuisance. Right? Because these folks who live behind it have

had to deal with homeless and all the other things that in that strip mall that's empty because it's been

kind of tired for a while. This is not the only one. But I'm asking the questions because we have 29

opposing residents. This I'm kind of surprised because it's just a laundromat. But it clearly they're

saying something to us to say think think differently. And so that's what I'm asking staff. Is there

anything else proposed besides the laundromat? Cuz remember, this is the first tenant. Then we got six

more. So if the first one's a laundromat, what comes next? Like how are we upgrading the center? Cuz we're

not we're we're going to get one shot at it. So I'm just thinking trying to figure out what do we do. And

do does the owner need to meet with the residents more and figure out what they want or have an idea

because we know there's I've approved things and opposed things that back up to neighborhoods that are a

mess. Like I've been here. I've I've dealt with all of us have dealt with hectors at some point in time.

Causes the neighborhood grief, noise. Right? So I think my concern is we're going to get a shot at this.

The owners decided to upgrade the property. Seven stalls. First one's a laundromat. What are we getting

after that? Like you get a laundromat, what what else can you attract with a laundromat? And this is not an

upscale laundromat. This is not one of those with a coffee bar. This is not the ones I've seen in Pasadena

announcement. This is a regular laundromat. So I'm asking staff, have we had those discussions? You say the

owners met with the neighborhood. Met with the neighborhood and look what we got back. So that's kind of

where I'm at thinking, trying to figure out. And I think about if we have Bowers and we're trying to

improve this stretch the north end of town, how do we do that? I don't know. But I'm just trying to think

and I just want the staff to kind of know what I'm thinking about right now. That's kind of where I'm at

at. I I appreciate it, chair, uh the time to be able to kind of flesh out my thoughts. But that's where I'm

at right now.

>> Thank you, [Commissioner]. Do we have any other questions or comments from commissioner at this time?

[Commissioner]. Thank you. [Commissioner].

>> Um historically this this um uh shopping center has been or closed for since 2024?

>> Uh 22 23 I believe around then.

>> Okay, so that's at least four to four years, right? Okay. Um and so that's where we get a a lot of

complaint about it being closed, okay, which the property owner is proposing to put in something to get get

it going. Uh do we have a master plan on what they're going to be putting in?

>> So over the last couple of years, um we have reviewed the site for major mod improvements, rehabilitation

of the overall sites. Uh believe it was around a year ago uh the property ownership had shifted and

changed. And so a new application was resubmitted to the city for those same improvements. And so we're now

currently working with the owner and I believe the building permits are issued for overall um extensive

renovation of the exterior and the parking lot and landscaping around the site. So there are plans put in

place for those improvements. As to the specific tenants, I don't have an idea of who those will be. I

think that's something more the applicant could answer, but there's no specified tenants right now.

>> Along the same line as [Commissioner]'s questioning, if we look at the totality of 17th Street that abuts

the Floral Park neighborhood, the Floral Park neighborhood is a historic neighborhood we've been approving

these houses that is conforming with the historic nature of those property. But you got some properties

that intrudes upon the neighborhood starting down at the other end of Bristol with the car wash, but it's

also on the street that you have a school. So you have a lot of car traffic and you know in and out for a

car wash that I use and I think many of you guys use and you know it does have trash and it has all those

you know people using at different hours. Then you have in the middle there a restaurant and then you have

an insurance company, a doctor's office, you have a place that sells electronic bikes bikes and things.

Those property have some kind of wall or alleyway that kind of separates a little from the neighborhood,

right? So this is a big property where there's also a bus stop. And on the bus stop, if you have gone to

the Chinese restaurant there and you've taken your your your large comforters and pillows and thing to wash

in the machine while you have a nice Chinese meal that you can't have no more cuz [name] had to close down

and leave. You would have also noticed a more transient population at the bus stop who sometime go into the

restaurant and order food and then run out. So, now, does the bus stop invite them or does the Chinese

restaurant invite them? I don't know, cause and effect. But it begs a question that although there's no

report, you know, we have to think in term of the totality of what that shopping center will do and I think

that's the big questions we're asking. We don't have a plan yet, but we're we're trying to jump start it

with the laundromat and we're kind of questioning, well, is that is what needed to enhance the character of

the neighborhood, which again, what we're trying to do is be conforming with our plan, general plan in term

of improving the neighborhood and all that. While we got a lot of responses from the community, a lot of

it's like, you know, pass, you know, not now. And leaving a property vacant doesn't seem prudent as well.

And although this is a different home property owner, right, from the previous one. Yeah. So, and [clears

throat] you know, I don't know until unless they're speaking today, you know, to to to see what else they

got planned. I would like join [Commissioner] on questioning, you know, is this a good thing for the

neighborhood? Because again, we have we we want to conform a harmony between the business strip and the

neighborhood. So, it's important what you do put in or allowed in the conditional use permit. Cause I would

question now, what was the conditional use permit that allowed them to put in a a laundromat before? And

where was the monitoring of that laundromat and property to make sure it maintained because the shore was

deteriorated by the time that I was enjoying my Chinese meal there that I cannot enjoy anymore. So, those

are just observation. I'm not putting you down or or or anything like that. It just like Commissioner my

mind is just you know having these questions.

>> Thank you, Commissioner. The applicant can speak to the long-term plan as far as the mix of tenant spaces

there, but staff's position or our role as a regulatory agency is we have a list of permitted uses that

applicants or property owners have a right to apply. In this case, laundromat is one of the conditionally

permitted uses, and so we process and review accordingly to make sure that that proposed use complies with

the standards that the city has. In this case, we found that it does, and that's why we're recommending

approval subject to the conditions of approval that are attached to the CUP. Outside of that, the more

finer grain tailoring of the types of uses that that happen at this site or any site in any of the

corridors fall back on the property owner and the property management. For us, we have a broad menu of

options that are available to property owners as far as businesses that are allowed there, and the mix of

specific uses or businesses in one retail center versus another falls back to the property owner and the

property management team. So, some of the questions that both [Commissioner] and you brought up regarding

what's the long-term future plan or mix of businesses here, I would leave that question to the applicant

when they have an opportunity to speak.

>> On the same token, do we have any apartment houses in in Floral Park? And and I would think that the income

level in those historic homes in those big houses that they would have a washing machine in the dryer.

>> While this facility is located adjacent to Floral Park, there's nothing that would prohibit only residents

of Floral Park to frequent this business.

>> Thank you.

>> Thank you, Woo. We'll go this way. [Commissioner].

>> My understanding is a CUP is is usually asked for when a use is not inherently found to be compatible with

the underlying zone zoning of the of that parcel. So my my question is, why would a laundromat require a

CUP? What what aspect of a laundromat is incompatible with that land use that that's currently zoned? Is it

because of crime? Is it environmental? Is it because it's a commercial building and a laundromat is a

commercial use? So why out of other commercial use a laundromat requires a CUP?

>> Thank you, Commissioner. First, I would say that a laundromat or uses that require a conditional use permit

aren't deemed to be non-compatible with the zone. They actually are compatible. That's why it's listed as a

conditionally permitted use. And secondly, uses fall onto that list for a number of different reasons,

whether it be certain types of impacts that may be associated with the operation as far as this type of use

a laundromat. In the past, they did not require a conditional use permit. This site here previously was

approved without a CUP. And through what came to be at different laundromats, different types of nuisance

types of activities that were present, not at this, but just in general in laundromats, that's when the

city decided to require conditional use permits to more closely monitor these types of uses and require

things like on-site surveillance or delimiting of video game arcades that led to people to congregate there

and do other things that weren't necessarily use the laundromat facility. So depending on the type of use

and the types of operational impacts that may come from them, that may be the reasons why certain uses are

elevated to conditional use permit and others are not.

>> So, historically, what was the impetus of the city requiring transitioning from a non-CUP you know,

application for a laundromat to now I just want to know like what what are the contributing factors for why

we require a CUP for a laundromat?

>> It's been a while since I read that staff report from whatever it was, [name], like a decade ago, but I

would say in general it had to do with the perception that certain types of uses had certain types of

people that congregated here.

>> That that seems to be the crux to me of the feedback from from the community is that the assumption is if

there if there's a introduction of a laundromat to this particular parcel, there would be unsavory

activities. And I I've I've read a few of the comments saying that the neighborhood are already kind of

having their own security on their own kind of neighborhood watch. So, I think I understand why there's a

sensitivity to it. The other part of my question is if this commission were to deny this CUP now, but

eventually the new zoning code is adopted, then the applicant could have just come back and apply and skip

the CUP process. Is that correct?

>> Thank you, commissioner. If the city council were to adopt the zoning code update as is currently proposed,

that is correct.

>> So, so that there is an avenue regardless for a laundromat to be within this property, whether it's now or

when the the council adopts if the council adopts the zoning code as is.

>> That that would be the if, right? So, if the city council moves forward with adoption as currently

proposed, it would be an allowed use by right. Uh also, sorry, one one last question. Um because there's

there's quite a bit of um a mention of kind of unsavory activities uh within this area. Uh did we kind of

um ask PD for a uh consultation on this area? I I see that uh commissioner shook his head. Okay. That's all

for me. Thank you.

>> Thank you, [Commissioner]. [Commissioner].

>> Thank you, [Chair]. I'm reading your staff report and and and from your presentation as well, it says that

the proposed hours of operation are from 7:00 to 10:00 p.m. And in your staff report, you know, extending

into the evening and could result in activity near adjoining residencies. And the and the uh counter uh

condition that is imposed is just commercial deliveries between 7:00 and 8:00 p.m. My question is did staff

consider shortening the hours of operation as part of one of the conditions to granting this uh permit?

>> Yes. We um initially um upon initial discussions with the applicant, they wanted to extend it even later

into the night. Uh we um settled with the consistent with the ordinance number uh ending at 10:00 p.m. The

ordinance for the um operational hours. So we um settled at 7:00 a.m. and 10:00 p.m.

>> Thank you. If I can um add to that, as [name] mentioned, the city has an ordinance with a list of

operational standards that when the city council adopted, went along with standards required of all

laundromats seeking a CUP and the hours of operation are to 10:00 p.m. So this would be consistent with

that.

>> So I I think my follow-up is if there if there's an ability to vary from that ordinance in terms of the

operational hours and the operational standards. Given the the in given the reality that if the zoning code

gets adopted as recommended by the city council and the applicant comes back, this will be a by right use.

And at this juncture, conditions can be imposed. Additional ones I I presume by in recommended by this

commission, additional conditions can be imposed. And that's why I'm asking these questions.

>> Thank you, [Commissioner]. [Vice Chair].

>> Thank you. Before I begin, I just want to make sure I get disclosed that I did have

>> Sorry, [Vice Chair]. Before you continue, can we get a answer for [Commissioner] on whether if we were to

consider moving forward with the CUP, can we add additional conditions?

>> And and the specificity is straight from the ordinance of the operational hours from 7 to 10.

>> Thank you. Apologies for the delay. So your question is whether or not we would be able to have some

flexibility with those particular conditions to to change the hours of operation. My understanding from

staff is that there there are there is an ordinance that had that information in there, but it's not it was

not adopted. So it's not technically in the ordinance, in the code, so you would have some flexibility to

be able to do that.

>> Thank you. Thank you. [Vice Chair].

>> Thank you. I want to disclose that I did have a phone conversation with [name] yesterday about this item.

I'm much like [Commissioner] and [Commissioner] that and I also want to say too, I drove by the site today.

I do want to thank the new owners who have done work proving the landscape. You have made it look a lot

nicer. Parking lot goes right up to two homes though. And that you cannot change. On that. So I have real

concerns about the deliveries up to 8:00 8:00 cuz it would be a diesel truck. So when we get to that point,

I think this commission can recommend reducing that down to 6:00 p.m. which is a more reasonable time and

not interfere with any ordinance that we have. But also um there's a feeling that this is the first item

going in. And I don't know whether this is question for staff that we will go through projects like this

with the business opportunity group in the city looking at business development. Do they have a a say in

developments like this?

>> Thank you, vice chair. Our economic development team typically will assist property owners that are trying

to draw in businesses or if businesses approach the city for available sites, they also assist in that way.

But they don't really play a role in assisting a property owner or property management company in tailoring

the types of uses. They strictly base it off of what's allowed per the city's zoning code.

>> Okay, cuz you are the first item going in there. It's so important to get off on the correct foot. And so I

understand the neighborhood's concerns. They also, I gather from them, feel that they thought there was

going to be something better going in at for the first item. I If the owner has not talked with the

neighborhoods, they definitely need to talk further with the neighborhoods. And we do have the option of of

requiring that and have this come back for decision later. That is one option to us also that we can we can

delay this at this time on it. So right now with that, I will hold my questions back for the owner. And I

do understand that you know he owns the business. He wants to make money in that business. Totally

understand that. And this is private property. He owns it to develop it. And so I'm kind of torn between

the two. But it's the same token. You want to say something good about that area, good about the city. And

we have other laundromats in the area. One came out I will make a laundromat. It's so recent there's [name]

there's a laundromat that has a bar now inside of it up in LA. That may make it easier for the neighbors. I

don't know. But no I'll hold my questions off for the owner. Thank you.

>> Thank you [Vice Chair]. I also have some questions for staff. So I know it was shared that in the zoning

code update that has been presented to the City Council this plaza could have a laundromat and it would be

by right. So they would not require a conditional use permit. And had that already been approved we

wouldn't be here today. So can staff please share why that was made a by right use in the zoning code

update that is currently ready to be considered by the council. And speak specifically to what if any

concerns there were for any impacts on the neighborhood or lack of concerns for impacts on the neighborhood

because I know staff was looking very closely at all of the uses that were allowed by right specifically in

plazas that were directly in front or behind of neighborhoods like this one.

>> Thank you Chair. These types of uses in our review haven't been generating any kind of PD activity that are

different than any other retail or commercial use. We felt that the standards that were in the ordinance

and that are proposed to be in the ordinance similar to like ABC licenses that have a list of standards

that are applicable to them would be sufficient to address any impacts that may be associated with any

similar type of use. So we felt and which was one of the the goals of the zoning code update and

streamlining and being business friendly in that this type of use and in a modern context with the

standards that we were proposing wouldn't be any different than any other commercial or retail use located

in a commercial shopping center.

>> Thank you. And then um in the same way that this use is allowed would be allowed by right in this type of

plaza, I'm assuming that that is the case throughout the city, not just in this specific area of the city.

>> That's correct in the zoning district and then with um the caveat that the use be complying with the

standards that are applicable to that particular use. So there would be an additional list of operational

standards that laundromats would be subject to and required to comply with.

>> Thank you. And then as presented to us today, all of the operational standards would be the same ones that

would have been applied had that zoning code update already been approved or are they different in any way,

more restrictive or more flexible?

>> They were included in the conditions of approval as conditions of approval, but they draw on the existing

ordinance and the proposed ordinance as well.

>> So there can we say that they're identical to what would what what the laundromat would have had to comply

to if that zoning code update had already been approved and if it was just a by right use?

>> I would say they're the same, not identical in that we had to format them to be conditions of approval

rather than standards, but they achieve the same ends.

>> Thank you. And then one more question as the planning commission, what are we to consider as we review this

specific conditional use permit? If there were if the commission was interested in denying, what are the

permissible grounds for denial?

>> So in the staff report in the resolution specifically, the code requires that we present that the proposal

meets certain conditions of approval um or certain findings, I should say. So the findings that are in the

municipal code staff highlighted in the reso of how this proposal meets those findings to recommend

approval of a conditional use permit. If the commission were to decide that it wishes to deny, then it

would have to demonstrate how it does not meet those findings.

>> Thank you. So this commission would have the burden of identifying how those findings are not met, correct?

>> That's right.

>> And then even if we were able to accomplish that, this applicant could apply once again once a zoning code

update is approved assuming that the that the council approves it as is and they would not have to come

back to the planning commission because it would be a use allowed by right.

>> That's correct with as you mentioned with the caveat that if approved as proposed.

>> Great. Thank you. Those are all my questions for staff at this time. I'm going to Do we have any last

minute questions for staff? We can ask more at the end, but I'd like to open the public hearing. Okay,

we'll keep it to one so we can move to the public hearing.

>> This is for staff also. The new zoning codes that has that has not had the first reading yet, correct? In

council?

>> Thank you, vice chair. It has not. Staff presented a work study session October 20th and we're currently

still preparing the item to take it before the city council for first reading, but it has not had a first

reading yet.

>> And so it will take how much time? Two two readings?

>> That's right. It would be two readings and then the ordinance if adopted would take effect 30 days after

the second reading.

>> So right now that there's just one meeting in November and one in December for council. Do you see the

second reading not occurring until January?

>> We don't have a set timeline on when that's going to move forward, but once we do, we'll be sure we'll be

sure to share that with the commission.

>> Thank you. With that, the public testimony portion of the public hearing is now open. Would the applicant

like to speak on the matter?

>> Uh hello hello commissioners. I am [name]. I'm the applicant and the architect for the project. Um I can't

always I'm probably not the right person to speak to the your concerns, so I'd like to see if would I have

permission to have the operator and the owner speak on my behalf?

>> You can share the time now.

>> Is it okay?

>> Yeah, you can share the time.

>> Okay, that'd be great. Evening everybody. My name is [name]. I've been in the laundry business for a little

over 16 years. I've worked for a distributor of laundry equipment, so we sell laundry equipment to

different laundromats. And I own a couple as does my partner. And uh listening to some of the comments, um

I think there's a little bit of an antiquated vision of what a laundromat is nowadays. Uh it's by no means

sort of that rough and tumble thing that it used to be. One of my first jobs was cleaning a laundromat. I'd

wake up at 5:00 in the morning and go clean it and there'd be a guy sleeping with his beer, you know, on

the chairs. That's that's long gone. Uh you spoke to the fact that there's another laundromat across the

street. There is. It's like one of the ones I just mentioned. They're they're they are actually deplorable.

It's it's a horrible laundromat. [clears throat] And the other laundromats that are close by, ones on the

other side of the Five. And then I think the other one's closer to Bristol or so. Um there's there's really

not in that immediate neighborhood a good laundromat. And I knew that laundromat because I'd tried to sell

them equipment before. Think about it. 32 years it was there. That neighborhood needs a laundromat. If it

survived for 32 years, it was it was a handy thing for that neighborhood. And the other thing that is

interesting is nowadays you mentioned somebody would have a washer and dryer cuz they live in a nice

neighborhood. And that could be the case. But washers and dryers at home can't wash large items. And a lot

of people like to do a lot of laundry at once and so they want a facility they can do it all at once. We're

going to be offering fluff and folds, so they're going to be people that maybe they're for whatever reason

don't want to do their own laundry. They're going to bring it and so there will be plenty of uses for

various neighbors. A couple of other points just if I can speak to them there's no deliveries at a

laundromat. They don't have any. You go buy your soap goods and that kind of thing and you you just carry

them in yourself for the vending machines. [clears throat] Um regarding the unsavory characters that

sometimes it attracts you know in today's world in laundromats an owner has a substantial investment and

they can't afford to have unsavory characters hanging around their laundromat. They've got ladies kids got

a huge investment. Last thing they want is that thing going south. There's there's three key words in

laundry. It's clean bright and safe. Any laundromat owner who adheres to that is going to address some of

the things you guys have have mentioned about what the old thinking of was about laundromats. I don't have

games in my laundromats. I don't even have Coke and snack machines cuz they just cause a mess and people

come in for the wrong reason. I want them to come in to do laundry. So the only vending machine in this in

my stores is uh it's for soap. Also um I mentioned the investment and you mentioned uh [Commissioner] the

the the one in Pasadena was it or something you knew about or So there are those sort of mixed use

laundromats but they're really not that many of them. However they are super modern. They're super

beautiful. The equipment's gorgeous. We put in um we put in porcelain floors. We finish it all right.

People even if they're using a laundromat they want to come in and they want to be treated well. They want

a nice environment. They want a safe environment. So that's what the modern day laundromat is doing

nowadays. So I would just suggest maybe even looking at some of the laundromats. I could even point you to

some that are that are fantastic and you'll see that it's a it's a different world today. That's about all

I had to say in terms of what I heard from you guys. If you have any questions I'm happy to answer.

>> Thank you. Yes one I'll take questions from the commission. We would like we'll begin with [Commissioner].

>> I just have one question. Do you have any other uh laundromats in the city of Santa Ana or would this be

your first investment in the city?

>> My partner has I think four.

>> And where in the city are they?

>> Um I'd have to get the addresses. There's one on Edinger. There's one on on uh Main Street.

>> Okay.

>> And I can't tell you the cross street but they're called [operator]

>> Okay.

>> and um we could certainly get you some locations. I actually own a laundromat in Dana Point and that goes

to my my uh comment about the fact that everybody needs a laundromat. Every I have people buying coming in

the parking lot in Mercedes-Benzes is pulling out their laundry and doing it themselves. They they they have us do

it too. But people's machines break. They can't wash a lot of stuff or big things. So that Flora Hills

actually would be served, I think, well. But everything south Go go drive around that neighborhood south.

There are a ton of apartments over there. And that's who normally uses laundromats consistently. And again,

I don't see a lot of options for those people in that neighborhood outside of the one that has, you know,

frankly gone downhill quite a bit.

>> Thank you. [Commissioner]?

>> Question for the owner of the property. You're you're you're not the owner of the property, right? You have

the laundromat.

>> Yeah.

>> Good evening. My name is [name]. I'm the CEO of a company called [company]. We're the ones We're the

fortunate people that had purchased the shopping center back in February. As as [name] had gone over this

laundry mat that we're going to open in that location if we are permitted. This is not a regular laundry

mat that you see across the street from us. State of the art equipment. One thing that we have added into

this laundry mat is fluff and fold, which requires a personnel to run this operation from the time that it

opens until the time that it closes. So there will be somebody on site a little bit different than the one

across the street where there is nobody there. There should be somebody there from 7:00 or whenever it's

open until it closes. And then they clean up and leave. At the same time, when we took over the shopping

center back in February, it was a rundown shopping center unfortunately by the previous owner. There were

um transient people living in the in the building or they were permitted actually to live in the building.

Uh there were a lot of stuff that were vandalized. Uh we are putting over a million dollars into the

shopping center to bring it up to where it needs to be. Uh we are a very very seasoned uh developer and

retail owner. We own somewhere around 600,000 square foot of retail in Southern California. Uh we've been

in business for the past 35 years. Uh we currently have three laundromat in some of the locations that we

have including one in Mission Viejo. And um we absolutely have no problem with any of them. I personally

had visited some of the location that uh uh our operator um asked before we make that decision. Um and and

the location looks wonderful. There isn't a place that you could not even find a dust on any of the

equipment. Uh there was somebody there all the time. We visited the location three four times. Um and we

found no problem at all. As I was talking about the transient people in this location uh what we have done

right at the beginning, right before we got into this location even um we had spent somewhere around

$40,000 worth of civilian system uh which uh is controlled by an outside company 24 hours a day. Um so in

case and they can talk to the transient people or anybody that is in the shopping center. Uh in case if

there is anybody that moves in moving into the shopping center that is not supposed to be there, uh we can

talk to them over the uh PA system. At the same time we have uh security company armed security company

that uh run the location not just this location the other locations that we have in the uh in the area 24

hours a day. And if you talk to the uh chief of police uh in your city uh or any other people that are in

charge of this, you'll see that we have almost no complaint at all, no phone calls anymore. We did at the

beginning, but we we do not have any of that problem anymore. We do not have any transient problem anymore.

We absolutely have we cleared everything up and and we got no problem. And again, I think this is going to

be a big asset in the shopping center. It will bring in good traffic to the center and I think it will be

suitable to the other tenants that are going to be opening up in the center. As [Commissioner] was asking

as to who is going to go into the center, we have gotten somewhere around 30 two LOIs, letter of intents

from different people that are interested to go into the center. One of them being Dutch Bros, Chinese

restaurant, Korean barbecue, phone companies, cell phone companies, and we also had a letter of intent from

Corporate Circle K, which we had met with the with the neighbors. Actually, I was at one of their

association meetings a couple of months ago, and we talked to them about this and we explained to them that

there is a letter of intent from Circle K and they were not happy about it. So we automatically shut it

down because it was involving selling liquors and cigarettes and things like that. So we had taken that out

of the group of people that was going in, but I personally don't think and I'm 100% sure that this

particular use is not going to create any problem. And again, you're the one that has to make the decision.

If you have any question, I'll be more happy to answer.

>> I just I just have a couple So then why lead with a laundromat if you have so many LOIs? So take it from

someone who's been on this commission for 14 years. When you tell me you're going to put in a laundromat

and you've got LOIs with everything else, but it's not produced, not disclosed to the not disclosed to the

neighborhood, it's on the come. I had on the come when I had one Broadway Plaza. Never came. So so hit me

if I'm a little skeptical. This community, when you take Floral Park and you take Willard, they've had they

have tired developments on either end. You look across the street and your development, you're fixing it

up. Is a laundromat where I would go? Probably not. Because I would go somewhere else. I would start with

something else to attract others. These folks at this end of town, Willard and Floral Park, have been

waiting for these things to be done, right? And the first thing out of the shoot is a laundromat. Probably

not going to go over so well. And so what I'm saying to you is I'd probably go back to the neighborhood and

talk to them some more because a laundromat out of the shoot first maybe not the best thing. We have Bowers

that it's not far. We need to figure out a way to develop and that's what we're talking about here,

economic development for the city. When I look at staff support, it's all conclusives. It's not there's no

facts behind the fact that there's economic development. So what I'm trying to figure out is do I approve a

laundromat that may or may not improve the shopping center? Fills a stall, but does it upgrade it so that

Willard and Floral Park have a place to go, to walk to, not just to do their laundry, but to do other

stuff? And that's what I'm trying to figure out here now. And it's hard for me to under to contemplate

okay, I lead with the laundromat because that that they're ready to go. But I've got all these other LOIs.

You said Dutch Brothers. No way Dutch Brothers go there. Nice try. Dutch Brothers is massive. It's much

bigger bigger shop and it's not going to go there. Maybe a smaller independent coffee shop might go there.

There are others. But we've been down this road before. I've been down this road way too many times. And so

from my my concern is that more discussion with the neighborhood, more thoughts about how it's economically

going to benefit the area cuz both sides of the street need it. And also from the standpoint of if I if I

approve this one, if you do what you say you're going to do, then the one next to it's going to have to

improve cuz you're going to get better rents than the than the one next to it. Right? Across Ross Street.

Right? And I keep going down the street and improving the street cuz that's what we discussed. We discussed

when we had the zoning code ordinance, we talked about improving the corridors. We need to improve the

corridors. Does this do it? In my mind, probably not yet. But I'm just one of six. But that's kind of where

I'm at and that's why I kind of raised the questions that I did.

>> May I add [clears throat] to that? You brought up the fact that you just don't think that Dutch Bros can go

into this. And basically what I'm saying is just a conversation that I wanted to bring up. That is not

correct. With all respect. We do have a letter of intent from Dutch Bros that are very very interested. I

think I wanted to should have add into that before the conversation came by is that this is not a regular

Dutch Bros. This is grab and go Dutch Bros. It's a new concept at Starbucks. We had we had actually signed

a contract with Starbucks in Laguna Niguel and in San Clemente in our new project that is been that is

under construction. All they need is 1,200 square foot of space. People order online, stop, pick up, so

they don't have to go on the standing drive-through lane to pick up the coffee. So it is one of our top

priority to put them in. We are putting coffee shop in there and that would be it. We also have a letter of

intent from one of the occupant in floor garden in the back of us that wanting to put an Italian restaurant

in the smaller building. We do have Chinese restaurant that Korean barbecue. So we have not signed any

contract with anybody just because the location is not finished. We wanted to go ahead and get it all done

before we make any decision. And laundromat was one of the first one that we wanted to put in because of

the fact that we think that this particular use is going to bring in a lot of good traffic to serve the

other tenants and make them successful.

>> And you are you're you're entitled to your opinion. I appreciate it. I I appreciate it. We get to decide,

but I appreciate it and you kind of know where I'm at, so I'll let the other commissioners talk.

>> Thank you, [Commissioner]. [Commissioner].

>> Today and tomorrow are different days. Today you may make some conditions that 10 years from now, 20 years

from now, because when I first moved here 40 years ago or 50 years that shopping center was in a different

condition with the previous owner. But over time potholes came, the grass got overflown and the building

needed painting and you know that nice laundromat deteriorated too. But there are good examples at which is

in the industrial area on 5th and Townson or where wherever that is. They have a laundromat there. And I

went there to wash my comforter and the stuff that the cat and dog gets gets on and that's where I need the

big machine and big fluffy. I didn't know how to run those machine and didn't have to change and all that

and low and behold there was someone there that assisted me in doing that. And I think that depending on

your willingness as the operator to adjust your your operational plan. How many machines are going to be

there?

>> Roughly uh 35 or so washers

>> 35

>> of different sizes and then also 15 stack dryers so

>> Right.

>> dryer just means there's dryer pockets

>> So you got a lot of machine. Right.

>> a lot of machine.

>> So um then then you you might be willing to change your our operation uh to 8:00.

>> Well I was going to address what commissioner about that. Uh typically in the laundry business usual hours

are around six

>> Can you please speak into the mic? Thank you.

>> Uh are the typical hours are 6:00 or 7:00 a.m. to to 10:00. And and it can vary but that's pretty standard.

But people do laundry all the time. You know people have different shifts at at work. They're not they're

not all on 9 to 5. So [clears throat] um I don't think uh changing or reducing the hours um one of my

laundromats used to be only open till 7:00 when I bought it. to 8:00 When I extended to 10:00 it it changed

the business dramatically. And and to that point again on uh attracting and building business the

laundromat drives a lot of traffic. They're going to be using those they're going to be using those other

businesses that are in that shopping center.

>> And and that as

>> it all the time in every laundromat I go to.

>> And the city staff identify, you know, all the ordinances and condition, all that it's in your favor.

There's really no reason to deny you the operation of a laundromat there. You know, it's a question of like

what kind of neighbor you're going to be. You know, are are you going to be uh this neighborhood is how

should I say it? A high maintenance neighborhood. And and and if they're concerned about something, they'll

be knocking on this council door even though it's a different council, you know.

>> Yeah.

>> So I'm looking at you guys cuz you're the face of what's going to be there, right? And and I think that's

where Leo [name] is coming from too is looking at if we do do do decide to improve on approve it, is it

going to accommodate what the community wants too? And I understand the the question of traffic, you know,

to to that that lot. That's that's what happened to too. That laundromat and the taco shop and the little

convenience store did bring in more traffic. Uh but they had to also deal with uh you know, more cleanup,

[laughter] you know, from from traffic traffic and the trash and all that too as well.

>> Yeah. Well, first of all, I've I've seen all kinds of laundromats be great neighbors and and help with

getting things cleaned up because again, it's a substantial investment. And And you have to take care of

you have to take care of it. You can't let unsavory people come in or no reason to come and use your

laundromat.

>> but your your your your security is passive. It's It's a camera.

>> No, there's Well, well, there'll be full-time staff.

>> Oh, there're full-time staff there. Okay. I I didn't see that in

>> I I I call the police a lot in Costa Mesa in my day. And And that area is much better because of it cuz we

got rid of those guys.

>> And this the the full-time staff is not just for the fluff and dry, right?

>> No, they'd be It's It's either

>> to be they're going to be doing doing laundry for people or cleaning the place.

>> So they're they're set from 7 to to 9 uh 7 to 10, right?

>> 7 to 10, yeah. And really it it they do what's called last wash at at 8:45.

>> Uh and I'm being redundant only to clarify this for the the neighborhood uh you know how you're going to

medicate your concern and that is to have full-time staff there.

>> Yeah.

>> Okay.

>> Well and I think also just speaking we're kind of been speaking economically, but again I I could only kind

of speak uh through my experience. But I'll give you an example. I told you I have a store in Dana Point.

It was dilapidated. It was the oldest laundromat in town. There's only a couple in Dana Point. But it was

it was horrible. I came in and I completely redid it. Come on down to Dana Point and take a look at it. But

it's it's beautiful. And honestly that the business went it probably quadrupled if not more. And people

come in there and thank me all the time. The city thanks me have have cleaned it up and made it into a

nicer place. So you know they need it. I know it it it's uh I think they need it more than they used to

because there's more people renting and the laundry facilities within an apartment house are generally

pretty crummy.

>> So so to the owner you have a maintenance plan for when you're going to pave the parking lot and painting

and all that over the life of the building and the your ownership?

>> Um yes, thank you. Um we have our own construction company and maintenance crew. As I said we own just

because we own a bunch of shopping centers we have people on staff that visit the uh location on a regular

basis. At the same time uh the question that you had regarding the person that is going to run the

laundromat um that person is going to stay inside the laundromat and clean up around the laundromat. Uh we

have our people our maintenance that that into the center uh a couple of times a day. Once I think it's

about 10:00 in the morning and once is at 8:00 at night to empty all the trash where it's kind of different

than what it was before. There was no trash can on site. So now they'll go in and go ahead and clean up. At

the same time one thing that we wanted to add in that I guess it was not added in is that we are redoing

the whole trash enclosure area. It's more user friendly and it gets locked up. It has a roof on it so

nobody can use it anymore. And at the same time the the center is going to be monitored and is right now at

the present time. I can I can bring it up on my phone and take a look at it. It's being monitored 24 hours

a day as it is. At the same time we have a guard security that visit the location every two hours. If we

need to [clears throat] bring that guard every hour we can always do that. So I I just don't see any I

think our vision for laundromat is an old vision where this type of business collects a lot of transient

people. I think completely opposite of that.

>> I think it has more to do with the bus stop but to going back to your plan what I hearing you say is that

there's room enough for the type of restaurant that could be family oriented sit down not just fast food. A

family oriented Italian restaurant, a Korean restaurant.

>> sir. There's going to be

>> And and they kind of lend itself to family groups sitting there which is I I think if you were to to have

that in your master plan it would sell a lot better than a fast food place like like a Quick Mart.

>> actually the two people that you're talking to three different people actually. The Korean barbecue,

Chinese restaurant and the Italian restaurant that gentlemen [name] had brought into our um part of people

that we were looking at. Um there is going to be at least two different sit-down restaurants. Um one is

Italian, one is Chinese uh with the place of seating, outdoor seating right in the middle of these two

restaurants.

>> Oh.

>> Uh so uh again just because we've been in this business for a lot of years and we handle a lot of

dislocation, we are very very seasoned uh and we have a very very good name in the industry. Uh I

personally myself because of all this money and because of our name, we wouldn't put anybody in there that

it's going to jeopardize um our reputation in the in the industry. It is just it is just not possible. It

is not possible.

>> And I hope you understand that we have to ask these questions on behalf of the neighbors.

>> not at all.

>> Thank you [Commissioner]. [Commissioner].

>> I just want to understand a little bit more. Is the intent to introduce the first tenant as a laundromat

you know primarily obviously because you want to fill up the the commercial property, but also I'm assuming

because there's already infrastructure there. And so introducing a a laundromat would mean that you can

reuse a lot of the infrastructure that the old laundromat had rather than introducing a new tenant that

then would you know have to have a more intensive TI uh for that space.

>> Uh yes and no. Uh the tenant improvement that is going in there is going to be all brand new tenant

improvement including electrical um plumbing, sewer lines, everything else going to be all brand new. Uh

one of the biggest reason that we had started working on the laundromat first uh is because this particular

business requires CUP and it requires a little bit more construction than any other uh tenants that you're

thinking about putting in there. So, we thought that just because it's a long process for conditional use

permit, we thought that we'll go ahead and put that ahead of time and get that all done with so we can we

can have the tenant come in and start doing their construction and get that out of the way. It's not a

matter of who is going to go in first. We are talking to all the tenants that had showed interest in the

shopping center. We might have a Chinese restaurant opening up before they do. It's just not a matter of

them being the first one that we are talking to. We're talking to a whole bunch of different people and

you're going to go ahead and put them in one by one and try to get the shopping center built as best as we

can. Again, we met with the with the neighbors a couple of times already. I did personally. We drove the

neighborhood with them as well and we kind of know exactly what they want to go in there, but at the same

time, sometimes you just have to put something in there that is going to generate more traffic and serve

the community and the tenants that are going to go into that shopping center. You don't want to put a

restaurant in there or any other tenant in there that is going to stay in there for two weeks, three weeks,

month, two months, six months and go out of business because nobody wants to come in. So, that's one of the

reasons that we're doing this. Does that answer your question?

>> That that does. And you know, obviously this is an investment for for your portfolio. How contingent to the

success of this investment if there were no laundromat? Obviously you have a long list of potential clients

or a lease interest. So, my assumption is you're able to fill up this development regardless of there is or

isn't a laundromat. My I want to gauge is how um how impactful would it be to the success of this project

if there were no laundromat?

>> Uh I think as a retail owner that've been in business for that many years and own so many um thousands of

square footage of retail uh putting the right mix of people in the shopping center is very very important.

Um and I think laundromat is going to be a big asset for that shopping center for the future tenants as

well. Uh one way or the other we are going to go ahead and fill all the other spaces uh but it's just a

matter of who is going to stay in for a long term. Um if he can put any national tenant in there national

tenants wants to go into the shopping center uh credit tenant wants to go into a shopping center that uh

that has a lot of traffic. Uh they don't want to just go in and uh not produce any uh income. So I think

it's a very very important if if that's what you're asking me or uh for the laundromat to go into that

shopping center. Um again this is not a regular laundromat. Uh state of the art equipment uh we're spending

somewhere around $600,000 just to build this place. So putting $700,000 into a 2,000 square foot of space

um I personally don't think that anybody is going to go in there and leave it open for people to come in

and vandalize it and and uh and not take care of it. Uh I've looked at his places in Dana Point and and

Costa Mesa. They're fabulous. They're wonderful. I mean our revision of laundromat I think is from the

past. It this is all state of the art. There is no need of people putting coins in there anymore. It's all

I mean this this is completely different than what you see across the street from it. Um

>> Thank you. That's all chair.

>> Thank you [Commissioner]. [Vice Chair].

>> Thank you. Again, I want to emphasize the fact that the neighborhood does appreciate the work you've done

already to improve that area. I found it very pleasant the day when I saw it. We're here talking about the

laundry mat, but I just like to add my comment that when you do get to the parking lot, make sure the

lights don't flick into the homes that are right next to you. Honestly, that that'd be appreciated for

them. I've got a torn Lycra. Have you How often have you talked to the neighborhood about what your master

plan is and what your discussions you've had with them?

>> We had met I was invited to one of their association meetings. We have gone over the different things that

we wanted to do at the shopping center, including the lights that you were talking about. Everything is

going to be replaced. The asphalt, landscaping, all the fixtures in the shopping center, everything is

going to be brand new. So this shopping center that you see right now probably give it another couple

months, you're not going to recognize. They had brought up the point that they didn't want any sort of a

business that sells liquor and tobaccos and that that sort of stuff. So we automatically took those people

which was mentioned to you out of the list. Laundry mat was not part of the group of people that were

inquiring at the time, but at the same time, I have personally and couple of people from our office had

gone to the houses that are on Ross Street and Jefferson Place in the back of us and on the in front of us

and on this side of Jefferson's Ross, including the commercial shopping center right next to us on Ross

Street. And we we had spoken to them about the laundry mat. Those are the immediate people that are

surrounding the shopping center. And not even one of them had any problem with it. So I personally think

again, I think you're just looking at the old, old days with the laundromat as to what they look. Um, we're

not going to sell This is not a tobacco store. This is not a smoke shop that we're talking about. This is

just a decent business that we're trying to put in that shopping center that it's not going to create any

sort of a problem for anybody. Um, again, I don't know of any of the laundromat that I know of creating any

sort of a problem. I don't even think that neither one of his store had called the police department for

the past couple months, 6 months, a year, 2 years. Uh, we have our own security guard security that circles

the shopping center. If there is any problem, we're there to take care of them. So, I can guarantee you

that there is not going to be any sort of an issue. I can guarantee the neighborhood behind us that are not

going to be any sort of a problem.

>> Well, the fact that you're closing at 10:00, I totally agree with you because of laundromats I've seen the

most problems at is 24 hours. And you are right. There are people that come in 2:00, 3:00 in the morning

and what have you. So, I appreciate that being closed. I would be concerned as just setting the precedents

of deliveries, no deliveries past 6:00 p.m. And you understand the laundromat you won't have many, but the

other stores that are going to go in there would could have late deliveries and I would want that never be

disturbed.

>> As far as the delivery concerned, as he had mentioned, laundromats usually don't have any deliveries. Uh,

the deliveries are going to be by the probably the restaurant owners. And that we can make sure and and and

and put on record that we could have deliveries from 7:00 in the morning until 6:00 p.m. to guarantee that

there are not going to be any diesel truck running around um, just to satisfy your questions. That I have

no problem with. We can go ahead and actually once we come into an agreement, we we go ahead and put that

as part of their lease package, that they're not going to receive any deliveries after 6:00 p.m. That we

can do.

>> Okay. Okay. Looking at your crystal ball,

>> in a year and two years, you wouldn't be seeing me in here anymore. [laughter] Um we are going to uh we

have done uh we are done with all the rough work that we were supposed to do in this shopping center. Uh we

have gone beyond what was needed uh at the center, as they could probably vouch for me. We had put in

instead of putting one grease trap, we put in two 2,000 gallon grease trap in the center. We had the the

roof is all the I mean everything is all brand new. And if if everything goes okay and we do not have so

much of a rain, we are shooting to get this thing finished by mid December. Uh once it's all landscaped and

it's all done and we can take all the fences down, then we are going to start uh bringing tenants in. So

we're hoping the first quarter of 2027 this place will be all in operation and filled up with all the

tenant improvement and everything else being made.

>> Would you be willing to share that master list with the neighborhood?

>> Sure. Sure. We got no problem with that. And again uh uh uh as I explained to them before, I'm a team

player. I don't live in Santa Ana, but I own multi multi-million dollar business in Santa Ana. You're

actually in contract um to purchase another location in the city of Santa Ana. So it's the same thing as

living in Santa Ana. Uh we're not going to jeopardize our location. We're not going to jeopardize uh our

name by putting somebody in there that is not uh more or less uh liked by the people behind us. I mean

there's no reason for me to put a restaurant in there where all of those people that live behind them are

not going to visit that restaurant. Uh so yes, I I wouldn't have any problem with sharing that list.

>> Very good. Uh would it be interesting in putting a bar in that laundromat?

>> You don't want to mix [laughter] Don't mix alcohol and laundry. A lot of stuff gets left behind.

>> I heard that on on the radio Yes, I heard that on the radio and exactly what the complaint was.

>> [laughter]

>> Did you suggest a bar? Okay. Thank you very much.

>> Thank you, [Vice Chair]. Uh I have no additional questions. I was going to ask why a laundromat, but it was

asked a few times and you answered. Uh I will just want to note that I know [Vice Chair] was making some

asks on hours of delivery for other businesses. I just want to highlight that our zoning code update does

have operational standards that may differ from what was requested and what may have been slightly

committed. So just want to mention that as those conversations happen moving forward.

>> But nevertheless, we actually asked to uh open this location, the laundromat, from 6:00 to midnight. And

they told us that they asked for an opinion if there if there's any possibility to make it from 7:00 to 7

7:00to 10:00 and we had no objection to it and we had no problem so that

>> Yes, no thank you thank you. Uh I recognize and appreciate your willingness to comply with requests that

are being made. Just wanted to highlight that there might be different uh standards that actually provide

you more flexibility, but appreciate you also being willing to do as requested.

>> Appreciate it. Thank you very much.

>> So thank you. With that, I'm going to move on to a couple of comments from members in the audience. Thank

you.

>> Thank you.

>> Recording Secretary, have we received any written communication or is there a member of the public that

would like to comment on this item?

>> For the record, [Vice Chair] was provided with an ex parte disclosure form to document his communication.

Chair, we have received a total of 30 emails in the form of public comments for this item before the 3:30

p.m. deadline, which has been distributed to the commission and posted online. If you're attending this

meeting in person and would like to comment on this item, please fill out a request to speak form and turn

it into the secretary. If you're participating via Zoom and would like to comment on this item, please

select the hand icon to indicate that you would like to speak. If you're calling in and would like to

comment on this item, please dial star nine and then star six to unmute yourself. I will wait a few

seconds. We currently have six speakers in house and zero on Zoom.

>> [name], would you like to come up and talk for three minutes?

>> Hi, I'm [name]. During those 13 years, I've not shopped once at that shopping center when there was a

laundromat there. Why? Because there's absolutely nothing there for me. We had a laundromat, a smoke shop,

a Chinese restaurant, massage parlor, and other businesses that gave me no reason to visit. Add to that

deteriorating conditions of the property and the safety concerns, and it was a place I simply avoided. And

then for the past two and a half years, we've had to look at an empty shopping center surrounded by ugly

green construction fencing to keep people from camping on the property, which didn't really stop them

either. For 13 years, I've watched this property contribute virtually nothing positive to our neighborhood,

and there's many people that live back behind there. But now something wonderful has happened. A new

investor has come, a new owner, and a substantial money and and put in substantial money to renovate the

center. The building looks terrific. For the first time since I've lived there, I can actually imagine

walking down 17th Street and stopping by and enjoying a nice restaurant or grab a cup of coffee. And the

first proposed tenant is a laundromat. And if you're talking about a [operator], he does have

four here in Santa Ana. And if you look at their Yelp reviews, they're terrible. I appreciate that the ones

that he has in Costa Mesa and Dana Point are really nice, but the ones he already has in Santa Ana, not

great. They don't have great reviews. So I after 13 years of neglect and undesirable businesses, um I

sincerely hope that the residents of the neighborhood directly behind the shopping center will finally be

given an opportunity an opportunity and a meaningful voice in its future. I I'm grateful to the new owner

for giving this property a second chance, but a successful renovation is more about is about more than just

fresh paint and attractive buildings. It's about creating a place where people actually want to go. And I

feel as though that that's what that shopping center was. I mean, we've got West Floral Park, Floral Park,

Park Santiago, Fisher Park, all these beautiful homes back there. We just heard from a a historic neighbor

that was renovating their place. And that's what it means to us back there. I don't I don't need a

laundromat. I I have my own laundry that I do myself. So I I don't see how that's serving the community.

Cer- certainly not serving me. So I strongly oppose this CUP. Thank you.

>> Thank you. Up next, we'll have [name].

>> Sorry, I need my glasses on. Hello, commission. My name is [name]. I also do live in Floral Park. And I'm

here to ask you to deny the conditional use permit for the proposed laundry mat at West 17th Street. Um,

for 20 years, our neighborhood suffered the consequences of, you know, the deteriorating shopping center.

And for my nearly eight years as a neighbor in Floral Park, I have not used that shopping center at all.

Um, I do appreciate a good laundry mat, and in fact, I have used the laundry mat located at Bristol and

Memory Lane several times. It's quite easy to get to. In fact, I can wash and walk there. Um, I do like

being able to do my comforters there, as well as if I let the laundry back up, get it all done in 2 hours

is definitely a gift. But that's something that I can easily reach within walking distance of my home

already. Um, a new owner did purchase the property, and we were so grateful. [name] did come and speak at

our association meeting. I am a member of the Floral Park Neighborhood Association board, and was so happy

to have them there, and he did give us some great ideas and listened to us um, as a neighborhood talk about

things that, you know, the neighbors as a whole would like there. Um, and a laundry mat was never

mentioned. In fact, I had never heard the word laundry mat until I saw the flyer come out about this

meeting tonight, and I think that that's probably where a lot of the neighbors are coming from in the

emails that were sent to the commission. It's just the fact that we thought we were doing something so

transparent with the new owner and speaking with him, having him come out to our meetings, inviting him

into our homes, having him drive around the neighborhood, show um, showcasing what the neighborhood was

about and what things we are looking for, and as neighbors, what we are actually participating in. And so

that was a surprise to us. Um, I do think [clears throat] that the laundry mat is something that, you know,

could be of use in a different location. There's just not a need for that to happen there. And for the

first um, location to be, you know, identified, it is it is key for that spot. We do need to be able to

identify what is in there and so that it can encourage other um proprietors to come into that location.

[name] had mentioned several of the um items to us when he came and spoke at our association meeting. Um a

laundromat was never never um discussed. What was discussed was we did talk about a coffee shop, you know

um a place to buy gifts, a um a bookstore, um a plant location. You know just there's lots of other things

that we have discussed, but a laundromat was not discussed. And for the first place to be put into that, we

do think that it should be something a little bit more in line with what the neighbors do want to encourage

other shops to come in that align with those desires as well. Thank you.

>> Thank you. We have [name] followed by [name]. Okay. [laughter] Thank you. We have [name] followed by

[name].

>> I found my notes here. Hello. Good evening. I appreciate the time. I'm [name]. I live in Floral Park and we

did not know about the laundromat either. And um [Commissioner] mentioned that 39 letters against that's

just the tip of the iceberg. We only had a couple days. I mean against would be over well over 100 letters

easily. That's not even a a question about it. Um I think it's obvious that it's not needed there because

it's been vacant for 4 years and nobody's clamoring for it. I do acknowledge that we're super happy that he

bought the center because it's been a complete disaster since we've lived there for 8 years. Um and the and

I do agree they acknowledge the one across the street is a a double disaster. That laundromat is sketchy. I

mean you got to go there in the middle of the daytime just to make sure you get out alive. That's a scary

one. But I think the denial is um in the code it just says requires a finding that the proposed use will

contribute to a general well-being of the neighborhood. The answer is no. It's not going to contribute to

our neighborhood, and I think all of our neighbors agree with that, and I think that's enough to say no.

Appreciate the time. Thank you.

>> Thank you. We have [name] followed by [name].

>> I think amongst everybody that's here, I don't think anybody has spent a fraction amount of time that I

have with this shopping center. The last 6-7 years, [name], I've spent time with you. [name], I brought you

to the equation. I got you paid. Got your deal finalized because the previous owner was going to breach. Um

this neighborhood is important to me. Santa Ana is important to me, but this part of Santa Ana is where I

live. I started something 4 and 1/2 years ago called SIMBA, 17th and Main Business Alliance, where I worked

with business owners going from Bowers to Bank of America, from the 5 Freeway to Flower, to work with

businesses to make this neighborhood better. It's not easy. This is not an easy city to make better. It's

reality. I started something in the Santa Ana Triangle, which is the neighborhood right behind um Main and

uh 17th to work with kids there so they don't get into gangs. We work with families. Um I brought the

mayor. I brought [name] there just to work and bring resources to them. There's a lot that we have done as

a neighborhood for this area. And it's one step forward, two steps back because this is a hard city to make

better. And I'm not talking and I and I know [Commissioner], we are high maintenance, but when we're

looking to make this neighborhood better, it's not simply for the neighbors of Floral Park. We're looking

to make this entire ward better for all of its neighbors. We run backpack drives for the people of Willard.

We have a Boys and Girls Club toy drive starting in a minute in in a month for for Christmas. We care about

this neighborhood. When it came time for this uh and I do. I like [name]. I'm I'm so happy he is he is to

be our savior because this center has been horrible for so long. And I have a vision. I have a vision what

I think this area can be. And I've spoken with the president of Bowers. We'd love for this to be a place

not simply to where you go and get your laundry done, but a destination where perhaps people from outside

Santa Ana come and spend their dollars here. After all, this Main Street quarter was supposed to be Museum

Row. We're not living up to that. And I know we're here tonight fighting about one one laundromat because

we've been there before. You know, fool me once, shame on you. Fool me once, shame on me. It didn't work.

Why is this the first thing out of the gate right in the middle of that center? If you said you wanted to

wait till the end and then because I I've I've represented tenants. I got 11 seconds left really quickly.

The burden is on the petitioner to establish the criteria to meet the CEQA. It's the burden is not on us to

establish that they have not met it. Um please care for Santa Ana like we do. This is an opportunity to

make a difference. Have a vision.

>> Thank you.

>> Thank you.

>> [name], followed by [name].

>> Okay. My name is [name]. You guys know who I am. Ward five. I live in the Willard neighborhood. However, I

was born and raised in Floral Park and I'm 65 years old, so I out beat all these people here. Been in

Floral Park way before they have. I know this center very well. It used to have peachy peking chicken there

along with a little 99 cent store and a little used to rent videos actually there. Rent little videos and

you had the laundromat and you had a at the corner so you would enjoy that shopping center because you

would go eat at the Peking chicken, Peking Chinese food and your clothes could be drying in the washer and

you could be renting movies because you have to rent movies back then. So that's how long I've been in this

community. It did go downstream. Um I'm glad to see that it did get a developer there that cared enough,

but please don't tell me that um it's all just for Floral Park, okay? I live at Willard. 10,000 people are

at Willard. You don't have a laundromat there. Not everybody can be a homeowner. Although I am a homeowner

and I can wash at home, I thank God that I am. There's many that are not. And they need another laundromat

just to help the people wash their clothes. Now what what they're suggesting is that they don't want the

people crossing from Willard over into Floral Park. That's what it sounds like. It's a laundromat. Give the

owner the laundromat. If it doesn't work, I'm sure we're here from Floral Park, but we want to grow the

business. Give it a chance. Thank you.

>> Thank you. [name].

>> Good evening. Thank you for requesting our input. I I don't know how realistic it is to assume that a nice

restaurant would situate itself right beside a laundromat. I am a retired judge and for the last 10 years I

walked from the court home because it's only a distance of a mile and the only people I would see

consistently would be homeless in that shopping center. You know, realistically the only thing separating

the shopping center from Floral Park is its own parking lot and then starts the homes. I have lived on

[street] for 27 years and we really deserve a vibrant a vibrant shopping area there and it is it is true

that the all the homeowners in Floral Park have washing machines and dryers, but how often do we have

comforters or blankets that need cleaning? I take mine the once or twice a year that I take them to the dry

cleaner that faces the Baskin Robbins. It shares the parking lot with Baskin Robbins. That's three blocks

and they're happy to do them. So we we really don't need a laundromat and I appreciate your hearing us.

Thank you.

>> Thank you. Before I close the public hearing, do we have any additional questions for the applicant from

the commission? Great. Seeing as there are none, the public testimony portion of the public hearing is now

closed. We can now have discussion as a commission or take any motions on this matter.

>> I'm going to make a motion that we continue this to allow time for the neighborhoods and the owners to talk

about the project as a whole, all the items he's looking at bringing in there and with a timetable.

>> So [Vice Chair], the matter before is specific to the laundromat, not the plaza as a whole. So specifically

if you are making a motion to continue, what is the language for that motion?

>> Motion to continue is to basically that to allow time for the the owners to talk with the neighbors. And I

say 30 days.

>> We have a motion. Is there a discussion? Well, I have a question for staff first. I don't have to entertain

the second yet. I can ask a question before that. So my question for staff is this is the last meeting of

November. In December, I'm unsure of how many planning commission meetings there will be. So unsure of

whether this 30 days time frame is a realistic one at that. What would happen if a zoning code update was

approved before a before this item came back to the planning commission?

>> Thank you, Chair. If the zoning code update were to move forward and approved as proposed, it would allow

this use as permitted by right. The applicant could at that point withdraw their CUP application and then

pursue a by right application. And then in terms of the remaining planning commission meetings for the

year, we do have no items scheduled for the November 23rd planning commission meeting. So that meeting is

likely to be canceled. And then we do have a meeting that's scheduled for December 14th. So if it is the

desire of this body to continue this item, I ask that in the motion, instead of saying 30 days, that we

continue the item to a date certain and specify the date so that we don't have to re-notice the item.

>> As maker of motion, I would agree with that, December 14th.

>> Staff, is that what you requested as is that specific data realistic one for staff?

>> Yes. And then in addition to that, I understand the motion currently on the floor includes communication

between the applicant and the neighborhood, but is there a desired outcome or what we should be looking

forward to outside of just having the conversation?

>> The outcome I'm I'm looking for is that they have the neighborhood has a good feeling that there are other

other items going in in that shopping center um and help them make a decision. Sounds like a lot of them

are just been surprised by a learning mat just in the last few few days, it sounds like.

>> So I have a question for [Vice Chair] specifically to this motion. Um what if anything would be expected of

the applicant to do in the next 30 days?

>> Simply schedule a meeting with the neighborhood of the neighbors who want to come.

>> So the requirement would be one meeting with the neighbors.

>> Correct.

>> Okay. Is there a second to this motion?

>> That's a clarifying clarifying question. Um if we do defer this decision uh what will be brought back to us

uh in terms of the results of this 30-day deference? Is it a um kind of a a community testimony that then

uh reinforce our decision on this dais? Because uh you know to me it seems like we're pushing this decision

uh further while when there seems to be already a conclusion um and I I want to make sure that if we were

to push this uh decision further that we're asked we have usable information that can either alter our

decision or inform our decision further. And so if it's just meeting with the homeowners and then 30 days

from now the applicant comes back and verify they met with the owners. The owners come back and verify

they're still unhappy with what was presented to them then then what? Then we defer further or then we make

the decision that one of the two parties are unhappy with. I want to understand clearly the intention of

this deference and what possible outcome it will contribute to our decision making.

>> Yes, I believe it is a question for the maker of the motion so go ahead Vice bender.

>> What I was what I would hope [clears throat] for is it would make our decision easier to make in 30 days. I

would hope for is the neighborhood has a good feeling for all the items that are being proposed for going

in there. If he is looking as the as the owner said to have by spring of 20 2027 that have that shopping

center full then it could maybe give them a better appreciation. The first thing they've been hit with is

that there's going to be a laundromat. There's been no discussion of other items per se with them names,

possibilities and things of that nature. So it's my hope that in that time of 30 days or meeting with the

neighbors neighborhood that the neighborhood has a better feeling of what's going in there and they they

can end up deciding. I actually have heard positive on both sides. I I I have a daughter who enjoys fluff

and fold and and things of that nature and I appreciate that and I appreciate the hours and I I appreciate

the security being there. By the same token if I was a neighbor there I I I I want to be more assurance of

what else is going to come come in there. And that's what I hope that in 30 days or having that meeting

that the neighborhood feels better about about the project and it so supports it.

>> I so my this this is the way I I see it. This application can be denied. And it looks like the the owner

has the time to he can wait us out. You deny the CUP. He has multiple tenant spaces to fill. He can wait

out this decision and then once the if the zoning update is approved he would just come the applicant in

his own right would just come in with a laundry mat without a CUP. And staff you can correct me if I'm

wrong. If we consider a CUP now we have the options of adding more teeth to the conditions which would

ensure that they will be a good neighbor. To me the conditions currently right now is a little bit lax. If

we are concerned about the well-being and welfare of the neighborhood and we can safely assume most likely

the laundry mat will be introduced to this property whether it be through a CUP or by right. It's my belief

that the CUP gives us more of an opportunity to introduce some more teeth to that agreement to ensure that

there is an economic cost to breaking these agreements rather than having the laundry mat come in by right

reviewed by staff under conditions that are general and generic as approved by the zoning code. That's

that's my assessment of the the reality of the situation.

>> Thank you. I'm going to I'm taking stacks. I'm going to go to [Commissioner] then myself then

[Commissioner] and then I'll come back to the maker of the motion.

>> Thank you chair. My question is to you and and to [name] and it's on the subject of the the postponement

but from the angle that if the update is approved by the new council, uh, it it would mean that, um, it

falls on staff to administratively decide instead of coming up with to the planning commission to to review

on behalf of the community, uh, the conditional use permit on the property. It would just be

administratively done. If it is administratively done, again, I go back to question I asked in the

beginning is that how often are you really going to you know, uh, monitor a property to make sure it's in

conformity and and all that. Uh, and and and that's that's what the new update does. It takes out of the

public discussion into a more administrative and and I'm not saying that um, uh, to impune the character of

the staff. Uh, my my my question is just looking at who will look at it and on whose behalf and is there

uh, more opportunity for public discussion or just and and we're done with it, you know? And so is that

what I'm hearing, chair? Is that if we postpone or leave it up to the next council and then if the new

council approve uh, the new update then it just be administrative. But we have no assurance because there's

a new council of what they're feeling is towards the update, right? Because some of them may be against the

update.

>> That may be a better question for staff than me.

>> Well, I'm I'm also asking you because you you

>> And we're going to make that a question for staff to

>> Okay, you may be more in tune with the new administration.

>> [laughter]

>> Thank you, commissioner. Um, that's exactly correct that depending on the new council if they decide that

hey, we didn't get this right. We didn't hit the nail on the head. Go back. I've been a part of a project

that we initially thought was going to take two years in the general plan update that ended up taking over

seven and and for reasons exactly that as we had changes in leadership, they had different ideas of the

direction of the city. We got additional feedback to take different courses of action. Currently, if the

results hold of what we're seeing, there could be a big shift in our city council moving forward. They may

have a different opinion of the zoning code update than what staff has proposed thus far. That could take

us in a different direction, that would leave this applicant kind of in limbo as far as the weight game

that you were describing. And I think them wanting to move forward currently with the CUP for this use

gives them as a business owner the certainty in moving forward with their investment.

>> And with some other property, they keep changing the condition of the condition use space. In other words,

as it gets to their expiration date, they throw in a new one that changes but reset the new date in which

they have to comply, which is what happens on a another property in in the Willard neighborhood. Uh so um

I'm at a quandary of how to proceed ahead if if we just um

>> Thank you, Commissioner. We'll take continue to take questions and then see if there's a second. Uh so I'll

go next and then Commissioner Uh I'll make a quick comment, [Commissioner], very quick. Um if there is no

second as of now, if there is a second received, I would just like to request a friendly amendment that we

also require a meeting with the Willard Neighborhood Association to recognize that this plaza does not just

serve one neighborhood or a set of neighborhoods north of 17, but also those south of 17 where a laundromat

is a need. So we'd also want to ensure that their input is considered as this commission considers

anything. But I'm going to first go ahead to [Commissioner], see if [Commissioner] has a comment. Bring it

back. Well, do you would you accept that friendly amendment?

>> would accept that.

>> Perfect. [Commissioner].

>> So I'll second the motion so we can get past that. Um I agree with [Commissioner] about tightening the CUP.

We don't know the zoning code update is going to be approved, so we have time to fix the CUP. So 30 days to

meet with Willard and Floral Park and also to look at the CUP and if there are things that need to be

tightened, staff, you kind of heard some of our comments tonight to kind of tighten it up because this is

the first thing out of the shoot. The rest will fall in line, whatever it is. And so for us to be diligent

as we have been tonight on it and had a discussion and I appreciate [Chair]. I was thinking the same thing

about Willard. It's like they're just across the street. So and I I guarantee I don't know how long Tito's

has been there. It's been there a long time and everybody on both sides of the street uses Tito's. So I'm

just saying it's been there a long time. Um so I think that that would be a way forward. Does that give

staff a way forward a second? We talk about meeting with both neighborhoods. CUP needs to be tightened in

certain areas. Do you have specific areas, [Commissioner], you think it needs to be tightened? I mean I I

think of things but like you you you brought it up. I didn't think of it until you brought it up.

>> I just think there is obviously a concern about security and so there is language within the conditional

use permit for surveillance. But I think there needs to be a you know because it's very it direct language

says if any of these conditions are not met

>> Right.

>> one and all the city has the option to revoke the CUP. So there's a there needs to be a strong economic

cost to the developer

>> Got you.

>> to say that we're committed to if we were committed to allowing a laundry mat to be within this location,

we expect that there is a a cost. The economic cost would be we revoke the CUP. All the investment that you

put in into this laundry mat is for naught. And so there I think that whatever additional language there is

in that condition, it needs to really kind of impress upon the applicant that this is just not a general

keep it keep it clean, but because this is a very sensitive location within the historical neighborhood

that it's going to be more scrutinized and for good reason. And whatever in whatever forms that will come

back to us, that is my intention.

>> Thank you, [Commissioner]. [Commissioner], did you have any discussion points you wanted to bring?

>> Uh no no further discussion. I had first raised the issue of kind of putting more teeth on that CUP. So I'm

I agree with [Commissioner].

>> Thank you. We have a motion from [Vice Chair]. [Vice Chair], can you please restate that motion with the

friendly amendment and any other comments that were made that you would like to include?

>> The [clears throat] motion was to continue continue this item till December 14th so to give time to meet

with the Willard neighborhood, the Floral Park neighborhood, and Rivers third one. No? Give them time for

that meeting and we would continue this until December 14th.

>> Thank you. Do we have a second?

>> May I also clarify I did hear that there was a friendly amendment to the second to provide direction to

staff to further consider the conditions of approval?

>> Yes.

>> So that would Is it my understanding

>> Do you do you need specific language on what?

>> No, not necessarily, but if that's part of [Commissioner]'s initial motion and I heard that language coming

from [Commissioner] to add that. I wanted to clarify that. Yeah. So to continue the item to December 14th

so that these meetings can take place and then directing staff to take a further look at the conditions of

approval and revise as appropriate to address some of your concerns.

>> Yes.

>> Yes.

>> Okay. Do we have a second?

>> Second.

>> Perfect. We have a motion from [Vice Chair]. We have a second from [Commissioner]. Secretary, can you

please call a roll call vote?

>> [Commissioner]?

>> Aye.

>> [Commissioner]?

>> Aye.

>> [Commissioner]? [Commissioner]?

>> Aye.

>> [Commissioner]?

>> Aye.

>> [Vice Chair]?

>> Aye.

>> [Chair]?

>> Aye.

>> This motion is approved unanimously by majority vote with [Commissioner] absent.

>> Thank you. Moving on to item three.

>> [Commissioner], I have to Unfortunately, I have a family thing I have to get to. Um first of all, I want to

I want to It's been a pleasure serving with you. I know you won't be here for the next meeting, so you

won't get the fun of this. Um we we wish you well where you're headed. And And And please lead the city as

you as you think best, but remember these meetings cuz you're going to have even funner ones at the City

Council.

>> I was here nearly six years. I can't forget them. Thank you. Uh sorry for that. We'll now move on to item

three. This is the time and place for conditional use permit number [snorts] 2026-0014 for the property

located at South Hickory Street, located within the Light Industrial M1 zoning district. Before we begin,

do any commissioners have anything they wish to disclose with regard to this item? There are no

disclosures. The case planner [name] will provide a brief presentation.

>> Good evening, commissioners. Tonight's third item is conditional use permit number facility. Staff's

recommendation is to adopt a resolution approving conditional use permit number 2026-0014 as conditioned.

The site's general plan land use designation is industrial and the site is located within the light

industrial M1 zoning district. The surrounding uses adjacent to the property also consists of industrial

uses within M1 light industrial zoning district. Lot size is approximately 0.82 acres. Pursuant to

41-198.3B of the Santa Ana municipal code, major wireless communication facilities are required to be

renewed every 10 years and the planning commission approved conditional use permit number 2011-06 on May

9th, 2011 to allow the construction of the 57 ft tall major wireless communication facility disguised as a

monopine with ancillary ground equipment, equipment enclosure, and landscaping. As the current entitlements

have reached the 10-year term, the applicant's required to apply for a new CUP in order to maintain the

entitlements for the facility. The site is currently developed within an approximately 11,000 sq ft

building occupied by WRM Wastewater LLC, which provides grease trap waste processing services. In terms of

major wireless communication facility maintenance, permits were obtained in 2017 and 2019 for equipment

replacements associated with the facility to maintain cellular service and ongoing operations. Here we have

site photos on the east elevation showing the existing palm tree and wireless tower and on the north

elevation showing the existing trash enclosure, lease area, and tower. Here we have a site plan showing

location of the existing wireless facility in relation to the site and the buildings occupied by WRM

Wastewater. And here is an enlarged site plan of the lease area uh with the existing landscape planters um

on the east end and the tower um centered on the south. Here we have an elevation demonstrating the

specifications and the height of the existing facility. This location is optimal to continue providing

coverage necessary for existing and expanding service. Uh and the facility provides a benefit to Santa Ana

residents, businesses, and motorists who subscribe to the mobile phone services by providing cellular and

data capacity in the area. Additionally, site improvements will be made to the site to include the

installation of one new 24-in Canary Island pine tree and ground cover within the existing landscape

planter and replacement of deteriorated or faded stealth branches and needles and refreshing or replacement

of antenna socks as necessary. The requested conditional use permit is is consistent with the general plan

land use designation industrial subject to the compliance with applicable development and operational

standards. As conditioned, the existing facility will continue to comply with the applicable height,

location, screening, and stealth design standards. The project aligns with land use element goal LU three

and its policies 3.4 and 3.7 which preserve and improve the character and integrity of existing

neighborhoods and districts, promote compatibility with the surrounding built environment, and support a

clean and safe environment for Santa Ana residents, workers, and visitors. Furthermore, the request aligns

with land use element goal LU four and policies by allowing the existing wireless communications facility

to continue providing cellular and data services to the surrounding area while maintaining compliance with

the applicable development standards. In accordance with the California Environmental Quality Act and the

CEQA guidelines, the project is categorically exempt from further review per section 15301 Class 1 existing

facilities. And based on this analysis, a notice of exemption environmental review number 2026-051 will be

filed for this project. There is no fiscal impact associated with this action. Staff's recommendation is to

adopt a resolution approving conditional use permit number 2026-0014 to renew the entitlements of an

existing 57-ft wireless facility located at South Hickory as conditioned. That concludes staff's

presentation. Uh staff is here as well as the applicant to answer any questions.

>> Thank you. Does the commission have any comments or questions for staff? Seeing as there are none, the

public testimony portion of the public hearing is now open. Would the applicant like to speak on the

matter?

>> Hi everyone. My name is [name]. I want to thank staff for all their hard work and the commission for its

time and consideration. I'm available to answer any questions.

>> Thank you. Does the commission have any comments or questions of the applicant? [Vice Chair].

>> Uh you're going to be adding a smaller tower 24-in uh canary box plant. Can I ask why that is being added?

>> The proposed Are you talking about the tree?

>> Yes.

>> Uh it's going to replace a dead one that is next to the existing palm tree.

>> Oh, so it's a live tree. It's not part of the tower.

>> Uh no.

>> Thank you.

>> Thank you. Thank you, [Vice Chair]. Are there any other questions from the commission? It looks like

there's no other questions. Thank you. Recording secretary, have we received any written communication or

is there a member of the public that would like to comment on this item?

>> Chair, we have not received any public comments. If you're attending this meeting in person and would like

to comment on this item, please fill out a request to speak form and turn it into the secretary. [clears

throat] If you're participating via Zoom and would like to comment on this item, please select the hand

icon to indicate that you would like to speak. If you're calling in and would like to comment on this item,

please dial star nine and then star six to unmute yourself. I will wait a few seconds. Chair, we do not

have any speakers at this time.

>> Thank you. With that, the public testimony portion of the public hearing is now closed. Is there a motion

to approve this matter?

>> I move.

>> A second.

>> We have a motion from [Commissioner]. Is there a second?

>> I second it.

>> We have a second from [Vice Chair]. Secretary, can you please call for a roll call vote?

>> [Commissioner]?

>> Aye.

>> [Commissioner]? [Commissioner]? [Commissioner]?

>> Aye.

>> [Commissioner]?

>> Aye.

>> [Vice Chair]?

>> Aye.

>> [Chair]?

>> Aye.

>> Motion approved by a majority vote with [Commissioner] and [Commissioner] absent.

>> Thank you. Congratulations. Now moving on to item four. This is a time and place for conditional use permit

CUP number 2026-0016 for the property located at East Glenwood Place, located within the Light Industrial

M1 [clears throat] zoning district. Before we begin, do any commissioners have anything they wish to

disclose with regard to this item? Seeing as there are no no disclosures, the case planner [name] will

provide a a brief presentation. I apologize if I mispronounced your name today.

>> Thank you, Chair, and Planning Commissioners. Good evening. Tonight's fourth item is conditional use permit

number 2026-0016 located at East Glenwood Street in Ward 6.

>> We're sorry. We're making sure that the PowerPoint is also available via Zoom and YouTube.

>> Thank you. Sorry about that. Let me start over. Um thank you again, Chair, and good evening, Planning

Commissioners. Tonight's fourth item is conditional use permit number 2026-0016 located at East Glenwood

Street in Ward 6. The request is for approval of CUP number 2026-0016 to renew the entitlement of an

existing 60-ft tall major wireless mono eucalyptus communications facility. Staff's recommendation is to

adopt a resolution approving CUP number 2026-0016 as conditioned. The site is approximately 0.43 acres and

is located in the M-1 Light Industrial Zoning District with a general plan land use designation of

industrial. The site is surrounded by M-1 Light Industrial zoning to the north, east, and south and single-

family residential neighborhood across Standard Avenue to the west of the site. In March of 2012, the

Planning Commission approved CUP number 2012-004 which allowed the construction of the 60-ft tall mono

eucalyptus facility, ancillary ground equipment within a separate enclosure and stealthing trees. The Santa

Ana municipal code requires renewal of major wireless communications facility every 10 years. There is also

a 7,234 sq ft industrial building on the site that provides a variety of mailing services and permits were

obtained in 2014, 2016, and 2017 to replace equipment associated with the wireless facilities operations to

maintain cellular service. The left-hand photo shows the northeast elevation of the wireless communications

facility. The top right photo shows the west elevation of the lease area and the bottom right photo shows

the east elevation of the equipment enclosure. The dashed rectangles and the red arrows identify the

locations of the enclosure as well as the wireless facility itself. Both the equipment enclosure and the

wireless facility are interior to the site. The left-hand image shows a closer look at the equipment lease

area and the right-hand image shows the western elevation as seen from Standard Avenue. The facility

provides a benefit to Santa Ana residents, businesses, and motorists by providing cellular and data

capacity to those who subscribe to mobile phone services. The site improvements associated with this

project will include repainting of the mono-eucalyptus, planting of a 24-in box 15-ft tall Indian laurel

tree to the west of the facility for stealthing purposes, adding faux IV screening to the equipment

enclosure, repairing, repaving, and re-striping of the lease area parking space, and replacement of all

deteriorating or faded branches and antenna socks as needed. The application is consistent with the general

plan land use designation of industrial, subject to the compliance with the development and operational

standards. As conditioned, the existing facility will to comply with applicable height, location,

screening, and staff design standards. The application is also consistent with goal LU 3 and policies LU

3.4 and 3.7 which aim to preserve and improve the character and integrity of existing neighborhoods and

districts, promote compatibility with the surrounding built environment, and support a clean and safe

environment for Santa Ana residents, workers, and visitors. The application is also consistent with goal LU

4 and policies LU 4.1 and 4.2 as it will provide cellular and data services to the surrounding area while

maintaining compliance with applicable development standards. In accordance with the California

Environmental Quality Act and the CEQA guidelines, the project is exempt for further review pursuant to

section 15301 of the CEQA guidelines, class 1 existing facilities. And based on this analysis, a notice of

exemption environmental review number 2025-74 will be filed for this project. There is no fiscal impact

associated with this action. Staff's recommendation is to adopt a resolution approving conditional use

permit number 2026-16 as conditioned. In addition to the info provided, staff is requesting to strike

proposed condition number 1B in the conditions of approval which reads to store trash bins within an

enclosed trash enclosure away from public view. This originally was an item that would have been a

requirement for the site improvement plans. This item was inadvertently placed in the resolution and staff

had previously discussed with the applicant that the trash enclosure requirement and storing the trash bins

within the enclosed trash enclosure would not be necessary for the CUP given that the wireless facility

does not produce any trash. With that, that concludes staff's presentation and the applicant is also here

to answer any questions. Thank you.

>> Does the commission have any questions or comments for staff? I have just one. Um, I enjoy I really I think

the um mono eucalyptus tree does such a good job of showing the antennas or the pines they stick right out

and kind of curious who decides what to put in a pine or eucalyptus? Is that the uh applicant or does the

city have any requirements on that?

>> So with choosing whether it's a mono eucalyptus or mono pine that decision starts with the applicant and

generally when they bring the application to staff they do work with staff um to work on the design uh but

given that this is an existing facility and it's an entitlement um that decision was made back in 2012.

>> I realize that decision's already been made and I'm proposing changing it. Just more curiosity more my own

knowledge who who ends up to making that decision?

>> I can add to that vice chair. Some of it had to do with uh the evolution of these facilities as a whole. If

you recall initially when they were first introduced they were just non-stealth. So we still have some of

those in the city and if you drive around just to LA Basin you'll see some of those as well. And then when

they started to be stealth as trees some of the earlier ones were uh palms. And then the design continued

to evolve where now we have a number of different options available to carriers with I agree with what your

statement I I prefer the the mono eucalyptus ones they do do a nicer job of blending in. But um yeah it all

depends on site conditions what existing mature landscaping is there, what's being proposed by the

applicant and a number of other site constraints that may be present.

>> And I assume there's no difference in cost one versus the other?

>> The applicant can probably speak to that a little bit better but just looking at the structure itself I am

I'm just making assumption and they can confirm it seems like the eucalyptus one may be more expensive just

cuz it looks like the infrastructure is a little bit more as far as like the pole and all the stealthing.

>> Thank you.

>> Thank you, [Vice Chair]. Are there any additional questions or comments for staff? Seeing as there are

none, the public testimony portion of the public hearing is now open. Would the applicant like to speak on

the matter?

>> Good evening. [name] on behalf of the applicant. I'd like to thank staff and the commission for your time.

Uh I'm available to answer any questions. And I should note that um we appreciate staff's striking of the

inadvertently added condition uh 1B and are supportive of that amendment.

>> Thank you. Does the commission have any comments or questions of the applicant? [Vice Chair].

>> Just thanks for sticking around. You're the first person I saw walking in tonight, so I know you've been

here longer than what I I have, so thank you for for sticking around.

>> Oh, my pleasure. Thank you.

>> Thank you. Are there any other comments or questions? I believe there's no additional at this time. Thank

you. Recording Secretary, have we received any written communication or is there a member of the public

that would like to comment on this item?

>> [clears throat]

>> Chair, we have received not received any public comments. If you're attending this meeting in person and

would like to comment on this item, please fill out a request to speak form and turn it into the secretary.

If you're participating via Zoom and would like to comment on this item, please select the hand icon to

indicate that you would like to speak. If you're calling in and would like to comment on this item, please

dial star nine and then star six to unmute yourself. I will wait a few seconds. Chair, we do not have any

speakers at this time.

>> Thank you. With that, the public testimony portion of the public hearing is now closed. Is there a motion

to approve this matter?

>> I make the motion

>> Oh.

>> to approve.

>> We have a motion from [Vice Chair]. Do we have a second?

>> Just a quick clarification on that motion. Is that motion as conditioned with the modification to the

resolution?

>> It is with the recommended changes to the motion.

>> [clears throat]

>> Then I second. We have a motion from [Vice Chair] and a second from [Commissioner]. Can the secretary

please call for a roll call vote?

>> [Commissioner]?

>> Aye.

>> [Commissioner]? [Commissioner]? [Commissioner]?

>> Aye.

>> [Commissioner]?

>> Aye.

>> [Vice Chair]?

>> Aye.

>> [Chair]?

>> Aye.

>> Motion approved by majority vote with [Commissioner] and Oliva absent.

>> Thank you. Congratulations. That concludes the business calendar. Moving on to staff comments.

>> Thank you, Chair. Just a couple of quick items. Like I shared briefly earlier, I have fantastic news for

you all. We don't have any items on the next Planning Commission agenda. So we will be canceling that

meeting. And I wish you all a happy Thanksgiving. Hopefully you can spend time with your families and rest

for the coming new year. I'm sure there's going to be a lot of items waiting for us. And then the second

item, I wanted to congratulate [Chair] for the new role that you're going to be assuming next year. Um it

was a pleasure working with you. And we look forward to continuing to work with you in your new role and

capacity with the city. Congratulations.

>> Thank you. Now is the time for commission comments. So I'll start. Uh so today is my last meeting. I've

been on the Planning Commission now for almost 6 years. I was very happy to be appointed in January 2021 by

[name] right right when she got elected. And I just want to say thank you to all of you. So I know I've

served with you all very lengths of times. There's been some changes on the commission. So thank you all

for electing me as vice chair, for electing me as chair on two separate occasions. And it's really been an

honor for me to be in this role for almost six years, and I'm happy to see how the commission has grown. In

the beginning, I was the only woman on the commission. I was the youngest person on the commission, and I'm

just really excited to look back and see everything that we accomplished together and with the support of

staff. So, thank you all. I'm very excited to continue to serve the city just with a new title. And I'll

give it to [Commissioner].

>> I want to thank you for your service on on behalf of the commission, and I like to that to be reflected in

the record. And uh good luck on your new role as City Council. Um I I'd like to also um invite our

commission to attend the Japanese tea garden tea house and garden rededication. This is very important to

the Japanese American uh community. As a member of the Japanese American Citizen League, and I've been

working with the Japanese uh American Citizen League in the Santa Lancho chapter to ensure that that garden

stays uh forever and that it will not be uh intruded upon or changed or modified without uh it going back

to the community. And one of the goals in terms of rededication is again to remind Orange County that after

the internment as the Japanese American community went back into their community, they thought they built

this tea house uh as a gift to the Orange County um as they returned back uh to be American citizen. And

that's one of the things with the Asian American community is that we are citizen, but we just went waiting

until um uh we are recognized to be citizen. And what often when we start thinking about groups here, we

get kind of left out in the discussion. So, um I invite you to attend. You're going to see a lot of good

Japanese American leaders there and other people. Um, the other thing I like to talk about is um, with the

new changes and the adoption of the uh, uh, the update, I hope that we could get an update regarding one

Broadway Plaza cuz this one of those projects that's been here and here and here [laughter] year after year

and I don't see that we're getting anywhere to getting any construction. In fact, um, the uh, uh, main

place will be done before one one Broadway Plaza. Uh, it's having great progress and it's a major project

uh, in term of what they're doing. So um, I just thought I'd bring that to attention to staff if in in the

future meeting we could get an update or know where we're going and are they moving ahead? Do they have

money? If they don't have any money then, you know, uh, you know, what what can we do about it you know? So

um, I think that's that's about it.

>> Did you say the time and date for your your your

>> I'm sorry, what?

>> Say the time and date for the [name] the uh,

>> Oh, I'm sorry. November 14th at 10:00 a.m.

>> Uh, location?

>> Yeah, it's just over here by the main library which is brand new now and been rededicated.

>> Yeah. Very good. Very good.

>> And and they didn't knock down the oak tree.

>> Thank you, [Commissioner]. [Commissioner].

>> Yeah, congrat congratulation, Chair. Uh, these meetings are long. I I hear the council meetings are even

longer. Hopefully there's there's snacks, Subways, Chick-fil-A in the back. Um, so congratulations. Just

out of curiosity, since now that we are going to be moving the wireless cell towers eventually to be um,

um, administrative review, do those reviews still require staff report? When they are being administered?

>> So for the brand new wireless facilities, those would still be brought before the planning commission. For

renewals, we would be presenting the application to the executive director. So staff would present the its

findings to the director. It may not be in a formal report like what we provide to the commission. It may

be a memo or something of that sort, but we would be presenting the entire package and our recommendation

as staff to the executive director to make a determination.

>> Good. I I'm just curious cuz you know, it's a shame for Byron to spend all that time on the staff report

and we you know get it go through it within three minutes. So if we cut back on the work for staff I think

that's the main intention is to cut back the work on staff so staff can worry about other pressing matters

are larger and then through administrative review that process helps the applicant get through the process

a lot quicker as well. That's it. Thank you.

>> Thank you, [Commissioner]. We'll go to [Commissioner].

>> Thank you. I co-sign congratulations councilwoman elect Ramos. I I was briefly on this commission working

with you, but in the time I really enjoyed seeing your work. So I'm just looking forward to your bigger and

brighter stage and see where you go. The other thing I wanted to ask is something similar to

[Commissioner]. In terms of so to confirm, we will be seeing new applications for the CUP? That's all I

needed. I mean not CUP, for the cell towers. Sorry.

>> So new established wireless facilities that require a CUP would be coming to the planning commission. For

the renewals like the two that we saw tonight, those would be reviewed and approved at the director level.

>> And that's

>> that's the distinction I wasn't making. Thank you.

>> Thank you, [Commissioner]. [Vice Chair].

>> Again, I like to add my congratulations to you also. Transition to council is really December 17th. Our

meeting's on the 14th. I couldn't get you back for one more?

>> Swearing in is on December 8th.

>> [laughter]

>> Also, I want to join and wish everybody a very happy Thanksgiving. I'm as the older I get, the more I'm

enjoying Thanksgiving rather than Christmas. And I do the cooking on that day. That's I've been doing that

for 50 years and my wife always ends the same thing when I say, Honey, how was it? And she says, Good, but

not perfect. And I'll give away my secret. I make a mean stuffing. It's got McIntosh apples, cherries to

remind me of Michigan. And in place of water, I use cherry liqueur. And nice is that the bird gets the shot

and so do I. So it's a it's a good morning. But anyway, everyone have a very very good and and happy

Thanksgiving.

>> Thank you. With that, I'd like to adjourn this meeting. The next regular meeting is scheduled for December

14th at 5:30 p.m. Thank you.