2026-10-20 - City Council

01:13Good afternoon everyone. It is now 5:00

01:15p.m.

01:17on October the 20th,

01:192026. I call the city council meeting to

01:22order. All council members are

01:26Let the record show that all council

01:28members are present with the exception

01:29of council member Williams.

01:35And invocation will be

01:38given by Reverend

01:40Barry Sharp of Bell County Public

01:42Health.

01:44And the pledge of allegiance by council

01:46member Bass.

01:52>> He's not here.

02:03>> Is that the church here?

02:09>> Okay.

02:13Okay.

02:13>> Thank you.

02:16Do you have an invocation?

02:17>> You may, sir.

02:18Could you state your name?

02:20>> Good evening. My name is uh Cecil

02:21Bowles. I'm with Manny Church here in

02:23Killeen and Armor of God Outreach.

02:26Heavenly Father, we ask your blessings

02:28over these proceedings.

02:30We ask, Lord, that you would inhabit

02:31everything that's spoken, everything

02:33that's done here, Lord God. In Jesus'

02:35name, Lord God, we just invoke your

02:37presence, Holy Spirit.

02:39We want to know what you were saying,

02:41Lord, and what you would have us to do

02:42about it.

02:44May your blessings be on this. May it be

02:46a civil meeting, Lord God, where purpose

02:48comes forth, your purpose, Father. We

02:50pray in Jesus' name. Holy Spirit, we

02:52thank you now for directing everything

02:55that shall happen in these proceedings

02:56tonight.

02:57We ask it in Jesus' name. Amen.

03:03>> I pledge allegiance to the flag of the

03:06United States of America,

03:08and to the republic for which it stands,

03:11one nation under God, indivisible, with

03:15liberty and justice for all.

03:20>> Thank you, sir, for the invocation and

03:22thank you, Councilmember of Bass.

03:26Council, I need a motion to approve the

03:28agenda.

03:33Councilmember Brown.

03:35>> Move to approve the agenda.

03:38>> Is there a second?

03:39>> Second.

03:41>> Thank you, Councilmember

03:43Nash-King.

03:44Uh is there any discussion?

03:48Okay.

03:49All in favor, signify by yes. All

03:52opposed, no.

04:08Okay, did everyone vote?

04:17Okay, the motion passes.

04:20Uh 6-0.

04:23Madam Secretary, presentations, please.

04:30>> First presentation,

04:32PR-26-020,

04:36presentation of American Planning

04:38Association Texas Award. Salvation Army

04:41Board Chair, Mr. Bill Conlon.

04:44No.

04:46I'm so sorry. Uh presentation of

04:48American Planning Association Texas

04:50Award. Kate Williams, Central Section

04:54President of American Planning

04:55Association Texas Chapter.

04:58>> Good evening, Ms. Mescher.

04:59>> Good evening, Mayor and Council. Um

05:01tonight, I'm pleased to introduce Ms.

05:03Katie Williams. She's here from the

05:05Central Texas Chapter of the American

05:08Texas Chapter of the American Planning

05:09Association. Uh during the uh APA Texas

05:13Conference last last week, we were

05:16honored to receive a an award for

05:19implementation of our comprehensive

05:20plan. She's going to present that award,

05:21and then we'll take a picture.

05:26>> Good evening, ma'am.

05:27>> Good evening. So, I just had a couple

05:29things I wanted to share.

05:30Uh good evening, Mayor and Council. My

05:32name is Katie Williams, Central Section

05:33Director. And on behalf of the Texas

05:36Chapter of the American Planning

05:37Association, I would like to

05:38congratulate the City of Killeen and

05:40their excellent planning department on

05:41the gold award they earned at the 2026

05:44State Planning Conference for the

05:45implementation of Killeen 2040.

05:48This gold award in the implementation

05:49category was specifically recognized for

05:51its work in advancing downtown

05:53revitalization through the city's

05:54comprehensive plan, Killeen 2040. The

05:57award recognizes Killeen's efforts to

05:58turn long-term planning into action and

06:00advance initiatives that support

06:02responsible growth, community

06:03development, and the city's future.

06:05A key focus of Killeen 2040 is downtown

06:07revitalization, one of the plan's big

06:09six ideas. Since the plan was adopted,

06:12the city has made measurable progress

06:13toward that goal. Downtown occupancy has

06:16increased from about 20% to more than

06:1784% with more than 104 businesses

06:20opening in the area.

06:21In addition, 84% of the plan's downtown

06:24action items have been started or

06:25completed, demonstrating how Killeen

06:272040 is being used to guide

06:28implementation and track progress.

06:30The Texas Planning Awards recognize

06:32outstanding planning achievements and

06:34leadership across the state. The APA

06:36Texas Chapter evaluates submissions

06:37based on originality and innovation,

06:39community engagement, implementation and

06:41effectiveness, quality, and the

06:42promotion of planning.

06:44The recognition highlights the role of

06:45Killeen 2040 in guiding the city's

06:47future and supporting a community where

06:48residents, businesses, and visitors can

06:50thrive. Again, congratulations to the

06:52city of Killeen and their planning

06:53department on their continued success in

06:55implementing their comprehensive plan.

06:59>> Thank you.

07:00Thank you. Thank you.

07:02>> [applause]

07:06>> We have the award here, Mayor.

07:09Council would like to come down and and

07:11take a picture.

07:13>> We may.

07:15We can come down.

07:41>> [snorts]

07:56[laughter]

08:21[applause]

08:59>> Thank you again. It was great job. Madam

09:02Sec- Secretary.

09:04>> Item two.

09:05>> [clears throat]

09:06>> PR-26-021

09:09presentation of appreciation plaque to

09:11the city of Killeen by the Salvation

09:13Army. Salvation Army Board Chair, Mr.

09:16Bill Conlon.

09:27>> Good evening, sir. Good evening, sir. My

09:29name is Bill Conlon. I'm the chairman of

09:31the Salvation Army here in Bell County.

09:33Um we want to

09:36show y'all some some some and

09:38appreciation uh for our Angel Tree

09:40program which y'all partnered with us

09:41with uh with the facility for our

09:43distribution process.

09:45Uh we serve roughly 900 children a year

09:48uh through Angel Tree and y'all make it

09:51so much easier.

09:52So, on behalf of the Salvation Army of

09:53Bell County, I just want to say thank

09:55you very much.

09:58>> Thank you, sir.

10:00Thank you.

10:02Just want to explain the program a

10:03little bit uh

10:05ch- children are signed up and some

10:08seniors are signed up uh

10:11this last month we already have 890

10:15about 890

10:1690 children signed up for this year's

10:19uh

10:20distribution. And what we do is we send

10:22it out to businesses and a a lot of

10:26Walmarts, different stores, and they put

10:28them out and so the people actually are

10:31buying what the children are wanting

10:34because they have applied for

10:37uh the these toys and these gifts and

10:40they they are being able to be pretty

10:42specific on getting what they want for

10:45Christmas. So, we really appreciate the

10:48distribution out at the Event Center uh

10:50that that you provide for us these last

10:533 years.

10:54Thank you so much.

10:57>> Well, thank you for what you do.

10:58>> Thank you, sir.

10:59>> We have a

11:01>> a small gift also

11:02>> that we would like to give to you.

11:04>> He's coming.

11:05>> He's coming down, Major.

11:06>> Major.

11:07>> Could we get a picture of it with

11:08everyone again?

11:10>> Or we could stand in front if y'all

11:11would like.

11:12>> y'all just want to

11:14Which way do we go?

11:15>> I'd love to have y'all here.

11:17>> Oh, that's good.

11:23There we go.

11:28>> I don't

11:29>> That's

11:30>> Oh.

11:32>> Perfect.

11:33>> All right.

11:361 2 3

11:381 2 3

12:22>> Okay.

12:23Thank you, Salvation Army. We will now

12:26move into our work session.

12:29Um to discuss items 14 through 16 for

12:33the October 20

12:35regular session. No final action will be

12:37taken until regular session.

12:42>> Item 14,

12:43RS-26-173,

12:47consider a memorandum resolution

12:49accepting the award for FY 2025

12:52assistance to the firefighters grant.

13:06>> Who's the record?

13:10>> This is sleep.

13:11>> [laughter]

13:12>> Chief Fox?

13:14>> Yeah.

13:14>> Yes, sir.

13:16Good evening, sir.

13:17>> Good evening. How are you doing?

13:18>> Great. How are you, sir?

13:19>> Doing well.

13:21All right. You see this is a

13:23assistance to the firefighter grant. Um

13:27Um City of Killeen submitted application

13:29to Federal Emergency Management Group

13:30under the fiscal year FY25 for the AFG,

13:33the Assistance to Firefighters Grant.

13:35Sorry.

13:37Uh the FY25 application period was

13:39delayed by 7 months due to audits and

13:41reviews under the proposed federal grant

13:42funding. The FY25 AFG program provides

13:45funding to eligible fire departments and

13:47other eligible organizations to enhance

13:48the health and safety of firefighters

13:50and the public to improve their ability

13:51to protect communities from fire-related

13:53hazards.

13:55On September 22nd and 26th, city was

13:57notified the project was awarded. The

13:59funding was periodic occupational health

14:01and cancer screenings for its fire

14:02department personnel.

14:04And the approved project has a total

14:06cost of $259,000

14:08$773.36

14:10with $236,157 in federal funding and the

14:13city match being $23,615.76.

14:17Funding for the city match was already

14:18budgeted for FY27.

14:22What this does, it provides

14:23comprehensive medical and physical

14:25examinations for all the members of the

14:26Colonie Fire Department. Early detection

14:28results in higher likelihood of

14:30successful treatment and outcome and

14:31potential reduction in future medical

14:33insurance costs.

14:35Enhanced cancer screenings performed

14:36using bloodwork, ultrasound, and x-rays.

14:40And the staff recommends [clears throat]

14:41the City Council approve the acceptance

14:43of the FY25 AFG award in the amount of

14:45for the occupational health and cancer

14:46screenings

14:50and authorizes submission of all

14:51required grant documents and authorize

14:53the city manager or the executive

14:55director of finance to execute all

14:57documents necessary for the

14:58administration of the grant.

15:01>> Council, is there any questions or

15:03comments?

15:06With Chief?

15:08There's no questions or comments. Thank

15:09you, sir.

15:10>> Thank you.

15:10>> Thank you.

15:11Madam City Secretary?

15:14>> Item 15.

15:17RS 26-174,

15:19consider a memorandum resolution

15:21authorizing the execution of the

15:23professional services agreement with

15:25Garver LLC for the design of Zephyr Road

15:29reconstruction in the amount of 2

15:30million $51,906.90.

15:35>> Good evening, Mrs. Hager. Good evening,

15:37Mayor, fellow council members. So, we're

15:39here to

15:41discuss the professional service

15:42agreement and the design for Zephyr

15:44Road.

15:46So, this [snorts] project was listed as

15:48a priority street back in 2022 on the

15:51CIP list for that street reconstruction.

15:54Zephyr Road was the next project on the

15:56list

15:58to be recommended after we did

15:59Watercress, Gilmer, Bunny Trail, Willow

16:01Springs, and Stagecoach.

16:04Key element of this project, it is 1.9

16:06miles long. Most of it's two-lane. We're

16:08looking at trying to make it a

16:10three-lane road where possible, include

16:12a center turn lane, sidewalks on both

16:14sides, make sure the ADA ramps and

16:16everything is compliant, bicycle

16:18accommodations where we can,

16:19intersection improvements,

16:21specifically with W.S. Young and

16:23Trammel,

16:24where the signals are.

16:26Street lighting, obviously the traffic

16:29signals, and then access management

16:31where we can. We're also going to be

16:33doing some waterline improvements and

16:36taking care of some of the issues we

16:37have along that whole corridor.

16:40Garver LLC submitted the professional

16:42service agreement PSA for the design and

16:46contract administration of this project

16:48in the amount of 2 million $51,906.90.

16:53Garver has provided exceptional design

16:55and contract administration

16:58specifically with the airports and some

17:00of the waterline projects in the past

17:02for the city.

17:04This is the location of the overall

17:06project. It starts at Metropolitan and

17:09goes all the way over to MLK. So, like I

17:11say, it's 1.9 miles. Most likely this

17:14project, when we go to construction,

17:16will be multiple phases.

17:18Do one phase and next will decide that

17:21as we work through design.

17:24And then recommendations for the city

17:26council to authorize city manager

17:27designate to execute the professional

17:29service agreement with Garver for the

17:32Zephyr Road reconstruction project.

17:35And I'm here for any questions.

17:37>> Great. This is This is exciting. It's

17:39exciting news. Council member Nash King.

17:42>> And thank you. Mr. Zager.

17:46My concern is with Zephyr Road since

17:492017. That was one of my concerns and

17:52then it went through Mayor Solomon and

17:54now it's with Council member Campbell.

17:57This is going to be a challenge

18:00that

18:01roadway. It is going to be a challenge.

18:04And I know you you stated that the

18:07design will have

18:09a

18:10a three lanes and that turning lane

18:12which wow. I don't know how you're going

18:14to pull that off. But hey, it's a design

18:17challenge.

18:18Will there be any way and I know I'm

18:21asking a lot to have like a bike lane?

18:25>> That's what we'll be looking at. That

18:26was a bicycle facilities. We'll be

18:28looking either a bike lane,

18:30use of charrows which is that striping

18:32making sure we may go a little wider on

18:34the lanes or it could be a wider

18:36sidewalk, make it more of a shared path.

18:38Those are all the things we're going to

18:39have to look at the design. We're going

18:41to have to see one how much right away

18:42we have

18:43>> Correct.

18:43>> and room and then do we want to take in

18:46the up you know, try to acquire some

18:48right away or what can we do best with

18:50what we have? So those are all things

18:52that we're going to have to look at.

18:53>> Yes, sir. Cuz I know it will be

18:55challenged with three lanes cuz I drive

18:57it a lot but the bike lane I think

19:00that area really needs one. I'm not

19:02telling you how to do the design because

19:04the roadway would determine and the

19:06right away would determine how that

19:08design would turn out. But awesome job.

19:11>> Yeah. Yeah, there's a lot of residents,

19:13a lot of driveways. It's It's going to

19:15be a bigger version of Gilmer.

19:18>> Yes, sir. Thank you so much.

19:20>> Sure.

19:24>> Councilmember Kimble.

19:27>> Thank you, Mr. Mayor.

19:28Uh

19:30With further With the proposal, was the

19:32proposal for bike lanes to be included?

19:35>> We are looking at it. We included the

19:37three lanes, and then also to see if we

19:39can get bike lanes or some some facility

19:42on there.

19:42>> I've been talking to residents today,

19:44and you know, when we look at um

19:47some other work that was done,

19:48particularly at Water Watercress, that

19:54people feel that the lanes are too

19:55small.

19:56Particularly, you know,

19:57when you look at the turn lane, the

19:59drive lanes, and and then there's

20:02standing water. So, I guess the other

20:03question I have, what what other sh-

20:06street jobs has this company done for

20:08the city of Killeen before?

20:09>> They haven't done any street jobs for

20:11the city. They've worked primarily in

20:13the airport, um but they are a

20:16very recognizable firm for the state of

20:19Texas. They've done these type of

20:20projects in other jurisdictions. So,

20:23>> So, they've done other street jobs.

20:25>> Yes.

20:26>> But, not in the city of Killeen.

20:27>> That is correct.

20:29And this proposal does not include bike

20:32lanes.

20:32>> It includes looking at it, making sure

20:34we can try to get them if we can fit

20:36them, or have some facility, like I

20:38said.

20:39>> Is there a And I'm sorry, I'm talking

20:40quick cuz of time. Is there a plan

20:42neighborhood meetings and to meet with

20:44residents?

20:45>> Yes.

20:45>> So, we can So, we can discuss

20:48uh priorities, lane that's going to be

20:50taken.

20:51Uh I mean, there's there's four

20:53churches, uh four four churches, VFW. I

20:56mean, there's there's a lot that go A

20:58huge apartment complex.

21:00So, I think we really need to make sure

21:02that we have a few inputs from

21:04residents, so we can discuss the

21:06priorities of of the bike lane and the

21:09size of the lanes, you know, because

21:11um

21:12I I I think, you know, looking at

21:14Watercress, I you know, I drove it after

21:16I got the complaint today. I went and

21:18drove it and and those lanes are I don't

21:19know if they're Are they 7-ft wide

21:21lanes?

21:21>> No, they're 12-ft lanes, standard width.

21:23They were designed that for a purpose to

21:26keep people from speeding.

21:27>> Okay.

21:28>> That they they were deliberately put at

21:30that width just to help mediate the

21:32traffic control as well and try to again

21:35eliminate people from trying to speed

21:37>> Okay. And I And I guess if there's

21:38during the

21:39public presentation of people

21:41know that and understand that if that's

21:42what we end up doing, that's that's

21:44going to be keyed in for the residents,

21:46the size of the lanes, cuz there's going

21:47to be a significant amount of property

21:48that has to be taken to make that

21:50three-lanes, I imagine.

21:52>> Possibly. I mean, it's it's wide right

21:54now. That area though if you go curb to

21:56curb, it is a really wide area. There's

21:58parking on the side.

22:00We're going to have to look at do

22:02do we eliminate parking? What sections

22:04we do? Those are all decisions we're

22:06going to have to work with. We do always

22:09incorporate public meetings with our

22:11these projects lately because they are

22:13so big, they do change the character. We

22:15do want to make sure we get input from

22:17the public

22:18>> One last question before my time expires

22:20is the markings. I think there's

22:22different type of mark markings the

22:24paint markings make it more reflective.

22:26One of the complaints I got actually

22:27talking to a resident today that they

22:29can't see the they can't see the the

22:30street lights. And there's the one that

22:32you could put the the reflective glass

22:34or something into it so I can see it

22:36better.

22:36>> on Watercress that they're not lighting

22:38up at night?

22:39>> more about Marble Heights today. She

22:40>> Yeah, there's when we do new striping,

22:42we do use retroreflectivity. They put

22:44the glass beads in there. So if if we're

22:46using paint or if we're going to do

22:48thermal you know, thermal,

22:50they do have that reflective quality. So

22:52at night, they do light up. Uh

22:54yeah, when they when they wear out,

22:55that's when it gets a little dull and

22:57that's where we have to refresh a lot of

22:59those lines.

23:00>> All right, thank you, sir.

23:01>> Councilman Rubalcaba. has

23:04>> Excuse me.

23:06>> Rubalcaba.

23:07>> Thank you. And looking through the

23:09the proposal, [clears throat] I think

23:10one of the things that we need to

23:11highlight is that this would include

23:14putting additional lighting along

23:16Zephyr, correct?

23:17>> Correct.

23:18>> Um so I think that's important. I know

23:20the council back in 2021 changed the

23:23ordinance every 600 ft there should be

23:27an actual light post with a light on it

23:29and at every intersection

23:32or the end of every cul-de-sac.

23:34>> We've

23:35after I think the code is it's every

23:38every intersection we have to have a

23:39light and then it's every 600 ft or

23:42mid-block. And then obviously with our

23:44new standards where we're talking about

23:461,000, you know, maximum block length of

23:491,000 now that's shrinking down to 500

23:51or 400. So we're getting a little closer

23:53on our lights.

23:54We as we do the design we'll probably be

23:57looking at

23:59if we can tighten it up maybe not have

24:01as far or we're going to be upgrading

24:03all the lights, you know, at a minimum

24:04to LEDs. So it'll light it up a little

24:07better.

24:08It's what we've been incorporating in

24:09all our roads.

24:11>> So I will also say

24:13everybody knows my stance on this. I'm

24:15not a big fan of paying for our street

24:17maintenance to put street trees along

24:20the roads and you see that in the

24:22proposal this would include some street

24:24fees or street trees where feasible. I

24:30would rather give up those street trees

24:33to be able to have that area to do the

24:35shared pathways.

24:37I'm more of a fan of having the the

24:39shared walkways and the wider sidewalk

24:41where bicycles and pedestrians could be

24:43up on the sidewalk because then at least

24:46there is a curb in between vehicles and

24:48those bicycle riders for a little bit of

24:50added safety. But if we have to choose

24:54between having an accessible route for

24:56bicycles and pedestrians and having

24:59street trees, I would much rather say

25:02get rid of the street tree idea

25:05and let's focus on what's actually

25:06important for safety and for the

25:10possibility on this. And then I didn't

25:12see and hear where it said anything

25:14about the three lanes, but will this

25:16include drainage improvements out of the

25:18drainage fund and waterline improvements

25:20out of the water fund while we're doing

25:22it?

25:22>> Correct. Then we do use those funds for

25:24the drainage and the water and sewers

25:26respectively.

25:27>> Okay. And then

25:29quick thing each of the the side roads

25:32would also have the sidewalks built out

25:33to the nearest driveway, correct?

25:35>> Either to the driveway or the radius

25:37depending on how we tie it in.

25:39And in regard to the street trees, if we

25:40can get both,

25:42we'd we'd like to do that.

25:44There is a benefit to have at least a

25:45grass strip or some street trees between

25:48the curb and the sidewalk. You get that

25:49buffer. That does provide additional

25:51safety to the pedestrians than rather

25:53have to have having a sidewalk against

25:55the curb. So any way we can separate it,

25:58we can. If it's only two or three feet,

26:00then we're obviously only going to look

26:02at grass cuz trees don't grow in that

26:04type of narrow strip. But that'll all be

26:06part of the design of what we can do.

26:08>> Thank you.

26:10>> Councilmember Bess.

26:12>> I see every day

26:14more and more electric bicycles, uh

26:19all kinds of devices on our streets.

26:22Some of them uh being ridden by adults,

26:25some by young people, some by children.

26:29Um I think it's absolutely crucial

26:32as we go along um that we consider that

26:35when we do our street designs uh because

26:39I see some of them will ride straight

26:41down the middle of the street. Uh some

26:43of them will cut straight across Stan

26:45Schlueter, for example. Some of them

26:47ride on the on the sidewalks. Some of

26:50them ride on the grass. I mean, they're

26:52just all over the place.

26:54Uh but I think

26:56are y'all thinking

26:57about those as you do the the new street

27:00designs?

27:01>> When we do the design, we try to

27:02incorporate someplace where they should

27:05feel comfortable to ride. Um

27:07we can't address the people that don't

27:09want to follow the rules. Ideally, if

27:11you're on an electric bike and you're

27:12going the speed limit, you stay in the

27:14road, at least in the residential

27:15streets, and you're making sure that

27:17you're off to the side or making sure

27:19you're visible. Um I've seen a lot of

27:21that experience myself where they're all

27:23over the place and

27:25at night where if without lights or

27:27anything like that, I mean, it's

27:29something that we definitely need

27:30probably educate a little bit more in

27:31making sure as as these people are using

27:34these kind of a high-speed

27:36>> They go very fast.

27:37>> They do. It's almost like a motorcycle,

27:39but it's actually just like a regular

27:41mountain bike.

27:43Um but we need to kind of incorporate

27:44that.

27:45Uh having a bike lane or a shared use

27:48path given the extra width would help

27:51with that.

27:52>> Thank you very much.

27:53>> Mayor Pro Tem.

27:55>> Thank you. Um as Council Member Nash

27:58King had mentioned, this is going to be

27:59an interesting project with this 1.9

28:01miles. Um can you just restate or tell

28:03us what the um projected timeline is if

28:05once everything is approved from

28:07inception to or design to inception?

28:10>> So, this type of project will probably

28:11take at least 2 years to design and

28:13incorporating public meetings with

28:15getting the public.

28:16Uh it's a going to be a matter of then

28:19figuring out when we're going to have

28:20enough money for construction. This is

28:22going to be funded through the street

28:23fee program. So, as that pot of money is

28:26filling up and we have enough to bid a

28:28phase of construction,

28:30um we will. In the meantime right now,

28:32we are

28:34uh on our second stage second phase of

28:36Stagecoach, which is kind of empty

28:38pretty much taking a lot of that money

28:40out of that pot of money there for the

28:41street fee to get that project going.

28:43After that, we're going to be doing

28:45Willow Springs. So, we have to finish

28:47the design of that and then put that out

28:49for construction and then we'll go to

28:50Zephyr. So

28:52I would say at least four four years

28:54before we would start a project like

28:56this depending on how much we have in

28:59the in the fund in the bank.

29:01>> Understood. Thank you so much. And so

29:03what department primarily has oversight

29:05for this project?

29:07>> What was that again?

29:07>> What department has project oversight

29:09for this project?

29:10>> It would be engineering.

29:11>> Engineering and totally. Okay, and so do

29:13we have a designated project manager

29:15that's responsible for the project?

29:16>> We do. Okay, great. And so with a

29:19project like this and just for future

29:21for continuity's sake because we're

29:23going to have a unique turnover of

29:24council with some of the changes that

29:25we've made. Ultimately, what's the plan

29:27that's in place to notify council of new

29:30council members of updates as it relates

29:32to the road project, any updates or

29:35changes since we're talking about a four

29:36year

29:37>> So we always do our quarterly report. So

29:38we always provide information every

29:40quarter on all the projects that

29:41engineering is working on.

29:43Typically, we also have a year

29:44presentation that we go to council and

29:47present all on our projects. So

29:49we'd still plan on doing that. So at

29:51least having a follow-up every year or

29:54any at the request of any council

29:56members.

29:57We're also available to

29:59meet, call,

30:00talk about the projects

30:02as we go through.

30:04As this project goes gets ready for

30:06construction or we know we can always do

30:08an update. But regardless, it always

30:10does come to council when we're going

30:12out for bid, when we do a bid award, and

30:15then proceed through construction.

30:17>> Thank you.

30:18>> Council member Brown.

30:22>> Okay, so on page 14 of the proposal

30:26under additional services it says the

30:28following items are not included under

30:30this agreement but will be considered as

30:32additional services to be added under

30:35amendment if requested by the owner

30:37including full water and sanitary sewer

30:40line design and storm system drainage

30:42design.

30:44But my last question was, does this

30:46include that? And you said, yes. So, how

30:48does it include it but not include it?

30:50>> So, in the writing but in the S the when

30:52we had them revise the the dollar amount

30:54and we incorporated a lot of the water

30:56design. We're not looking at replacing

30:58the entire line, but more valves that

31:01we're having there's an interconnection

31:03between

31:05a line to the north and the south that

31:06we're doing. So, when we were

31:08negotiating the price,

31:10they did include that work in there. It

31:12may not be in the version, but we did

31:14work with the consultant to make sure

31:15that it was in the price of the of the

31:17contract.

31:18>> So, can we get the version that includes

31:20that? Because I

31:22>> in the dollar amount in the back part

31:23where they split it up.

31:24>> On the proposal or on the agreement?

31:27>> Should be on the proposal. Well, the

31:28proposal is the exhibit of the

31:30agreement.

31:40>> I see geotech.

31:43Street lighting locations.

31:47Contact list.

31:48Is it Are you familiar with where and

31:50that it would be?

31:51>> Actually, I do have a representative

31:52from from our consultant right here if

31:54you want to ask directly.

31:55>> That would be awesome.

31:56>> Okay.

31:57Come on.

32:02>> Hello, my name is Laura Friello. I'm a

32:03project manager and team lead at Garver.

32:06So, for council.

32:08We went back and forth. So, what we you

32:10what you will see in here is there are

32:12some inlets in one isolated area that we

32:16had specified would be replaced. It is

32:18not a full storm system reconstruction

32:21that will be done, but the analysis of

32:23where those things tie in and also at

32:26MLK at the end of the project is

32:28included. And then you'll also see that

32:30it's not a full water line system

32:33replacement, but we do specify in there

32:35the couple of segments that are to be

32:37reconstructed. So again, it's not the

32:39full systems, but it's where things are

32:41tying in as appropriate.

32:44>> Could you point to where in the

32:47agreement we would find where those are

32:48located?

32:51>> Do not have a copy of that right here.

32:53Fortunately, we don't have a copy of it

32:54in front of us.

32:56>> Okay. Um

32:57>> The streets should be Sorry.

32:59Um the streets should be listed on

33:01there. I can um double-check because we

33:02had specific lengths of the water line

33:05and then there was a segment that um now

33:09I'm completely blanking, of course. Uh

33:11the the intersection where the

33:13uh inlets would be that where the caps

33:16on the inlets would be adjusted.

33:19>> Would I know because we we vote on this

33:22shortly, but would it be possible to um

33:25try to get that information

33:27before we go into the actual meeting?

33:30>> Yeah, I'll go and pull that up. Thank

33:32you.

33:34>> We will have that ready.

33:41>> Councilwoman Neche King.

33:43>> Thank you.

33:44As we as you projected um Mr. um Zager,

33:48it will be 4 years. And for council, um

33:52this project started out requesting that

33:55uh at least 4 or 5 years ago, but as the

33:59council rotate, they push it back.

34:02Not it will not become a top priority.

34:05So I'm hoping that the current council

34:07know the significance of Zephyr. It's

34:10it's it has been overlooked for a long

34:12time that even if we're not on the

34:15council that we would come back and

34:17petition when Mr. Zager and them are

34:20coming present it so that this project

34:23would not get pushed back for another 2

34:25or 4 years because that area has been

34:28neglected and it's time out.

34:31And also the package was really

34:33extremely um detailed.

34:36It's one I haven't seen in a while like

34:38this. So to the company that we

34:40selected, kudos. Thank you.

34:45>> Thank you Councilman Menashe King. I do

34:47agree. I hope that

34:49not only the current council but the

34:50council

34:53the new council that will come behind us

34:55would really put emphasis and highlight

34:58on Zephyr Road as important. I mean

35:01we're taking care of the north, I mean

35:03it's the south.

35:05We need to take care of the north.

35:07of Killeen

35:08and we need to make that a priority.

35:10And and not let it get lost in the

35:14shuffle of things. We really need to do

35:16that. And I hope

35:19that we would really put emphasis on

35:21this and and push this through. Thank

35:23you for

35:25I'm just waiting to hear from

35:27I heard about it when it was it was

35:29thought of before I came on council, but

35:31we really

35:33pushed it

35:34I believe a couple of years ago with we

35:36wanted to have that design. So thank you

35:39for doing that Councilman Kemble.

35:41>> Mr. Kemble.

35:42>> Thank you Mr. Mayor. So Andrew, so so

35:45I'm clear, so I see a $2 million

35:47project, right? But I but I hear there's

35:50other things included that may not be in

35:53here. So are we expecting are we going

35:56to be over

35:58I mean I I see the presentation for $2

36:00million, but then I hear there's other

36:02things included which are are not in

36:04here.

36:04>> Typically the things that we don't have

36:06included in environmental reviews or

36:07anything we have to do. This pro This

36:09price does include limited water and

36:11sewer where we have areas that need to

36:14be replaced.

36:15There's a sectional line that connects a

36:1724-in with a 12-in to improve our system

36:21with the quality of our system in that

36:22area. And these are all items that that

36:25been coordinated with our water sewer

36:26department and public works. And then

36:29and we included that while we're

36:31obviously ripping up the road, this is

36:32the best time to fix all those

36:33>> So when companies bid on it, they they

36:35knew that that was part of the package.

36:37>> when when we get it to the point where

36:38we're bidding it, those items will be

36:40line items for those contractors to

36:42include.

36:44Other things, you know, we we're going

36:46to assume we're going to hit every water

36:47and sewer service for every house out

36:49there. So we're going to make sure in

36:51the bid package when we go to

36:52construction that we have that accounted

36:54for. Very similar to what we did with

36:56with Gilmore. Now, there may be some

36:58items. I think this won't be as bad as

37:00Gilmore where we'll find we'll discover

37:02a water line that we have no record of.

37:05>> [clears throat]

37:05>> We are going to be concluding enough

37:07information that we have to find find

37:10out the utilities that we have going

37:12with all our records,

37:14verifying in the field.

37:16This price is covering enough to design

37:19the road, water, those storm sections

37:21that we did. The

37:23you know, when they they always do

37:25exceptions, those are usually the

37:27exceptions that are unusual. You know,

37:29do we have to do environmental review?

37:30We don't have to deal with core of

37:31engineers. But if we did, they con- the

37:34consultant usually puts that in the

37:35contract just to make sure that they

37:37that's spelled out that that's not part

37:39of the design. If were to come up, then

37:41obviously there would be a design

37:42amendment, we would come to council uh

37:45for for something like that.

37:46>> I want to make sure that with with where

37:48where is the the

37:50the design

37:52price that we're that you put out and

37:55apparently there's a supplement that's

37:56getting ready to come with that cuz

37:57>> No, not yet. No, we don't anticipate a

38:00supplement. If we had to, everything

38:02that we think that's in this design to

38:05do the road, do the water, the sewer,

38:07the portions and the drainage that we

38:09are aware of on this road uh dealing

38:12with the the public hearing is included

38:15in this price.

38:16>> Okay.

38:16>> If we decided to do multiple public

38:19hearings or public meetings, that would

38:22be more than what we put in the original

38:24price and that would be an exception. We

38:25had that happen on Watercrest where we

38:27did additional meetings. If we wanted to

38:29go and do that and we're starting to

38:31hear that, we work with our consultant

38:33and then we see what's in the scope. It

38:36may be well, we don't need the deal like

38:38on Bunny Trail, we didn't have to deal

38:40with the roundabout design. We did

38:41signal, you know, so that saves some

38:44money on the original scope. We're able

38:45to, you know, move money around. Uh

38:48obviously, we're going to do that the

38:49same thing here. If there's additional

38:51work that we do find that we have to do

38:53later, is it something we can

38:54incorporate in the the fee that we have

38:57or are we going to need to do a

38:59supplement?

39:00>> Yeah, and and you're right. As much as

39:01we want to get this done, we want to

39:02make sure it's done as economically as

39:03possible also. So, I just want to make

39:05sure we have the true cost of what it

39:07takes to design and build this.

39:09>> Yes. As we know in the scope today, this

39:11is the cost that we have.

39:12>> Okay, thank you.

39:14>> May I approach, Tim?

39:18>> Thank you. Uh thank you so much. Uh Mr.

39:20Segers, I appreciate um all of your

39:22insight and I just want to make sure

39:23that I'm on the the record. I do not

39:25represent Garver in any way, shape, or

39:26form. However, I do think it's important

39:28that we um have a process in place for

39:31any type of notification for council for

39:33the future um just because you know, for

39:36the intended public benefit that we know

39:38exactly where this project is at and I

39:40know that you're going to do a great

39:41job, but I also know that things change

39:43over time and so my only request is not

39:45only for this project, but for every

39:47project that we have moving forward that

39:49we have a clear understanding of um how

39:52significant issues are communicated with

39:54council so that we are notified

39:55beforehand um as that we have a

39:57responsibility for overseeing the

39:59financial commitments, not to be in

40:01day-to-day operations at all, but just

40:03so that we can make sure that we're

40:04moving forward with this project and

40:06we're not caught off guard. So, thank

40:07you. I just hope that we take note of

40:08that for future. Thank you.

40:10>> And and that is our standard process.

40:11>> Yes, sir. Thank you.

40:12>> Yes, and we we again, we hope that just

40:15not get lost in the shuffle and and not

40:18get kicked down the road.

40:20Because I think this is one of one

40:22project that should have probably been

40:24a priority, higher priority than what it

40:27is. I don't

40:29You know, every time we hear this, other

40:30roads, we know a lot of roads need to be

40:32done in Killeen, but this one

40:34has been on the map, or been on the

40:36radar for a long time. A very long time.

40:39Thank you for Thank you for doing that

40:42to us, sir. Thank you.

40:45Yes, ma'am. You may.

40:47You may. You may, ma'am.

40:50Thank you.

40:51>> Do I need to introduce myself again

40:52sometimes? All right. I'm [laughter]

40:53sorry. Uh so, just to note, um Council

40:56Brown, uh the note about the waterline,

41:00uh that adjustment is at the very

41:02beginning of page two. So, again, we're

41:04adjusting the curb inlets. So, this road

41:05in particular doesn't have it's it's

41:08curved, but it doesn't have a lot of

41:09inlets. Everything drains from west to

41:13east. So, um and then if you wanted some

41:16additional information on that, you do

41:17see uh later on on page four, it lists

41:21out that we will be providing drainage

41:23area maps, so that we're analyzing that

41:25drainage, um and those improvements. And

41:28then, uh for the details about the

41:31waterline adjustments, that is actually

41:32on page five of 15. So, you can see that

41:36those have the three different segments

41:38uh that will have uh along Zephyr, uh

41:41that that Andrew had had mentioned.

41:45>> Thank you, ma'am.

41:50Madam Secretary.

41:52>> Item 16.

41:54RS-26-175.

41:58Consider a memorandum resolution

41:59authorizing the execution of a

42:01professional services agreement with

42:03Michael W. Mars Architects, Inc., for

42:06the design of the Killeen Animal Shelter

42:08Renovations Project, in the amount of

42:11$191,500.

42:14>> Mr. Zager.

42:16>> Okay. So, item number two. This is a

42:19professional service agreement with

42:20Michael Mars Architects. And this is for

42:23the remodel of the animal shelter on

42:25Rains here.

42:27So, a little background. So, the city

42:29purchased the existing building. It was

42:31an existing clinic

42:33uh at 3518 East Rains here on July 21st,

42:362023.

42:38The city and the having to close the

42:40facility in April 1st of '26 uh was due

42:44to the presence of mold. Uh the way that

42:46the the area was getting cleaned and

42:48then the lack of drains inside was

42:51starting to have the mold. So, we ended

42:53up having to close that facility. And

42:54then the city remediated the mold and

42:57then contacted Mike Mars to review

42:59options on how to remodel the structure.

43:01And it is more to remodeling but meet

43:04our needs rather than accepting with

43:07what we bought.

43:08The options for remodeling had included

43:10additional floor drains, updating the

43:12kennel spaces, separating out dogs and

43:15cats uh facilities, and then also

43:18reviewing the surgical spaces and the

43:20office uh spaces of the overall

43:22building. Again, geared more to uh our

43:25specific needs and then how our

43:27department is uh utilizing that

43:29building.

43:32Michael Mars Architects, they submitted

43:33a professional service agreement uh for

43:35the design for $191,500.

43:39And then Michael Mars has worked for the

43:41city for the city on similar projects

43:44with the animal

43:45uh I think it was the remodel of the

43:46last uh animal shelter.

43:48And then like I say, they have worked

43:50well with the city.

43:53This is the location off of East Rains

43:54here across from uh Long Branch Park.

43:59And this is some of the schematics that

44:01we've been working with him. Uh this is

44:02kind of the overall floor plan. He

44:05uh while we were talking and getting a

44:06proposal, he was submitting uh,

44:09different type of designs. This one uh,

44:11splitting it off into a phase one

44:13construction and a phase two

44:14construction. But as you can see,

44:17adding more kennel space. This is

44:19actually the area right here that had

44:21the mold because of lack of of drains,

44:23so adding drains to that area.

44:26Um, and then having cat cat kennels more

44:29in this area, dogs and over in the back,

44:32keeping everything and then

44:34uh, surgical up in this area, additional

44:37work area storage, things that are a

44:39little more specific for

44:41uh, an animal shelter. And then the

44:42lobby in the front and a play area and

44:45the different offices. So these are just

44:47kind of the concepts we're just doing a

44:48rough draft and what we're using and

44:50something that's a little more

44:51applicable for our needs.

44:54Phase two is obviously the other area

44:56dealing with food storage, offices,

44:57treatments, the the prep, the surgery,

45:00and then the entrance, shrinking down

45:02the lobby. If you've been in there,

45:03there's a really large lobby area that

45:05takes pretty much a third of, you know,

45:07this whole front of the building. So

45:10uh, utilizing the space a little more

45:11efficiently.

45:15And then the recommendation is for the

45:17city council to authorize city manager

45:19to enter into agreement with Mike Morris

45:20Architects uh, for the design of the

45:23remodel of the animal shelter for

45:24191,500.

45:28And I'm here for any questions you may

45:30have.

45:31>> Councilmember Brown.

45:37>> So

45:38I I do recall requesting that we had a

45:43an appraisal done of the building before

45:45we would start spending more money on

45:46it. Do you know if an appraisal has been

45:48done?

45:51>> [cough]

45:51>> It has not and you're right, you did ask

45:52for that, but unfortunately there wasn't

45:54a motion of direction from the council

45:55to go do that nor was there consensus at

45:57that meeting. What there was consensus

45:59for was for staff to go and get some

46:02costs and make sure that we weren't

46:04spending any money without bringing it

46:05back to council first, which is

46:07typically our process anyway.

46:10>> Was there objection to it?

46:12>> I need a motion of direction from the

46:14council as a body in order to to spend

46:17money on something like getting an

46:17appraisal.

46:18>> You said there was no consensus, but

46:21there was no objection. So lack of

46:22objection would mean

46:24there's consensus. Well, I know the

46:26these individuals up here, if anyone

46:28objected to it, they would have spoken

46:29up.

46:30>> If council wants to give a motion of

46:32direction for staff to get an appraisal,

46:33we can absolutely do that.

46:36>> May I ask Mr. Zagers,

46:38when I see

46:40two phases of designs,

46:42does $191,500

46:45cover two phases of designs or only the

46:48first phase?

46:48>> It's both phases combined.

46:50>> So why do we have two phases of design?

46:52>> That was what the the architect while we

46:54were working with the initial design,

46:56initial scopes, he proposed was

46:58proposing two phases, but when we got

47:00the proposal, we asked that he combine

47:02both of them together, so we have the

47:03full design of the whole building. It'll

47:06be more as we work with the design, do

47:08we

47:09do half of it, work, you know, utilize

47:11the building, design,

47:13remodel a portion of it. That's all

47:15going to be something that'll be worked

47:16out during the design. I think right now

47:18though, we we wanted to make sure the

47:20design covered the entire building.

47:24>> So if we were going to do two phases so

47:26that we can use part of the building

47:29while we're doing renovations on the

47:30other part of the building, wouldn't it

47:31make more sense to do phase one on the

47:33front

47:35of the building near as to the lobby

47:38so that way

47:39that construction is done before we

47:41start utilizing

47:42the back of the building?

47:44>> That that would be something we'd work

47:45with the animal animal

47:47services department and how when we

47:50incorporate the design as we move

47:51forward, they're going to be heavily

47:53involved because they're the ones that

47:54are actually using the building.

47:56So those decisions aren't haven't been

47:58made yet.

47:59>> So, I'm just going to to say for the

48:01record that I I don't feel comfortable

48:03spending any money on this until we have

48:05the appraisal, till we determine if this

48:07is actually what is going to fit the

48:09needs. Um

48:14I I think there's a lot more questions

48:16that need to be answered before we start

48:17doing designs automatically to do

48:20renovations on a building that

48:23we don't know if that's our best option.

48:25We have apparently been able to find

48:28another $1.7 million to do the

48:31renovations. If it's really worth the

48:33$1.8 million that we paid for it,

48:36by the time you combine those two, we

48:37could build a

48:39brand new location over on Commerce next

48:42to our existing shelter, so everything

48:45is in one spot.

48:47And have it ensure that it fits our

48:50needs, ensure that everything is going

48:53to be designed

48:54to make sure that we don't end up in the

48:56same situation, because just adding a

48:58few more drains in the floor

49:00uh to me doesn't solve the problem that

49:03we had, and I'm concerned that we're

49:05taking a a structure built in 1980s,

49:08we're going to start digging into it,

49:09and then we have a whole world of other

49:11issues, and we end up with problems like

49:13some of the other projects that we've

49:15had come up. And my time is up, so thank

49:17you.

49:17>> So, I could add real quickly, I did talk

49:19to the architect a little earlier

49:22what other options we have. So, if we

49:24were to build a brand new facility,

49:26equivalent size of this of this

49:28location,

49:30he was saying it would be about $3

49:31million on just construction, and that

49:33doesn't include any land prices. So, if

49:36we didn't have enough room in the

49:37existing location, or if we were wanted

49:39to buy another property, that would be

49:41an addition to that. But, he was saying

49:43for something this size, it would

49:44probably start around $3 million.

49:47>> Councilmember Kimball.

49:50>> Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Andrew, when you

49:51started your presentation, you said the

49:53the city purchased the building. What

49:55was the What was the purchase price of

49:56the building?

49:58>> Uh defer that to the assistant

49:59>> 1.77 million.

50:03>> Thank you.

50:08>> Councilmember Nash-King.

50:11>> Thank you, sir.

50:13Um

50:14Mrs.

50:15Wilson or Mr. Zager can answer this. Uh

50:20Why do we decide to go this route

50:23instead of coming back to the council

50:26and proposing that, "Hey, what you the

50:30the um motion of direction? Hey, we

50:32looked at everything." And you you never

50:35You never know until you start working

50:38on the project what you're going to

50:40find. And that's even in our home.

50:43Something break and you go to dig and

50:44like, "Oh, I didn't even know that was

50:46there." So, that's just reality. You

50:48never know until you start. But, from

50:51from your professional uh opinion, what

50:54Why this is the about best route? I know

50:57we got to take care of our animals. They

50:59We have that responsibility. And we just

51:01delayed it. And I don't know the

51:03circumstances of that. But, why did we

51:06decide to go this way?

51:09>> I can answer my my professional opinion

51:12of what I think. After looking at the

51:13building, go being inside of it, uh with

51:16the mold remediation, we stripped down

51:18all walls. So, it's it's bare frames in

51:20the inside. Uh it's a very structurally

51:23sound. The architect even looked through

51:25it. He was making the recommendation

51:26that the building itself is in really

51:27great shape. Uh we did look at the part

51:31of the cost of the remodel is to upgrade

51:33the HVAC. Uh there are some areas in the

51:36kennels that do need does need

51:37additional ventilation, more airflow. Uh

51:40the HVAC units that are out there on

51:41that building are all residential, not

51:43commercial. So, those are all things

51:45that were taken into consideration when

51:46we were walking through the building,

51:48looking at options, and seeing what

51:50really is a

51:51viable option on this type of remodel.

51:54The The building itself is sound. I

51:56mean, there's some minor little things

51:57or maybe a little couple little tweaks

51:59when we, you know, try to put a drain

52:00in, but overall, it's a lot better shape

52:02than at least another remodel that I've

52:04been having to deal with. So, this one

52:07seems to be

52:07the building itself is in really good

52:09shape.

52:10But the options of how we're proceeding,

52:12I I'll defer that to the interim city

52:15manager.

52:16>> Yes, I would agree with that, Mr.

52:17Zagers. And also, we we've been kind of

52:19tracking what some other cities and

52:21communities are spending on new animal

52:24shelters, and those prices have just

52:25continued to increase.

52:27We're looking at facilities of a similar

52:29size, you could be spending a lot more

52:31than 3 million on a on a comparable

52:33facility.

52:34I think this is a good way to go. We

52:36want to make sure though that before we

52:38start down this path, of course, we are

52:39getting council consensus to move

52:41forward.

52:43Cuz like I said, that was really

52:45more of the direction given at that

52:47meeting in July. You did not want us to

52:49proceed until we brought back um

52:52any costs to the council.

52:54>> Yes, ma'am. And my only concern, as I

52:57stated earlier, we have an obligation to

52:59take care of all the furry animals. And

53:02the longer I feel that we delay it, and

53:05as our community continue to grow, they

53:08need services just like everyone else.

53:11So, if this $3 million, I don't even

53:13know where we would get that from right

53:15now. But for the price that you

53:18recommended, where we in our budget that

53:21would meet the need instead of trying,

53:24in my opinion,

53:25to build a new facility.

53:28Thank Yes, sir.

53:29>> So, the cost of the remodel is 1.45

53:32million.

53:34I think the 3 million is if you looked

53:35at the purchase price of what we already

53:36did for the property. So,

53:38what we have is the 1.45 plus the design

53:42that was accounted for and budgeted in

53:43last year's budget.

53:44>> Yes, sir. All right, that's all I want

53:47to know. I want the public to understand

53:49why that decision was made and we do

53:52have a responsibility to take care of

53:54the animals. So, that was important to

53:56me. Thank you.

53:58>> Mayor Pro Tem.

54:00>> Thank you.

54:02So, [clears throat] when we're looking

54:02at the project originally, we know that

54:05there were we're transitioning this

54:06building from a

54:08veterinary clinic to animal shelter. Um

54:11there's some things that for whatever

54:12half reason

54:13were missed or not converted to avoid

54:15the situation we find ourselves in. Do

54:17we feel confident [snorts]

54:18that we have done our due diligence at

54:20this point as as related to the design

54:22standard to address all of those

54:24remedies needed to convert this into an

54:26official shelter at this point. So,

54:29basically with that design, did animal

54:31service have an opportunity to to review

54:33the proposed operational layout?

54:35>> Oh, yes. They were They were

54:37actually in the the audience right now,

54:38but yeah, they were involved in the

54:40review working with the architect,

54:42making sure that he understood all the

54:44needs of what we have, what we need.

54:47The other thing is, you know, are we

54:48able to expand if we ever need

54:49additional kennel space in the future?

54:52You know, this project allows for that.

54:54So, no, animal services was definitely

54:55involved and

54:57they will be involved throughout the

54:58entire design.

54:59>> Thank you. And then as far as the actual

55:01deficiencies that we noted, obviously as

55:03challenges and then potential

55:04deficiencies that might not have been

55:06considered when we originally purchased,

55:08do we feel confident with the question

55:10that we have addressed those issues as

55:12it relates to the specific design?

55:13>> I believe we have.

55:15Um yes, the you know, we we took the

55:17building as is,

55:19did very minor type of things, you know,

55:21cosmetic type of changes in order to get

55:24the the surgery going, the the kennels,

55:27and getting the building in operation.

55:28It was because we didn't redo a remodel,

55:30so we end up where we are now.

55:32>> Thank you.

55:33>> And if I may, I mean, it's a careful

55:34balance, too. Is there more stuff that

55:36I'm sure staff would love to have?

55:37Absolutely. It's just kind of balancing

55:39what can we what is helpful and useful

55:42and making sure we have what we need and

55:44can accommodate some growth with kind of

55:48that nice to have versus need to have.

55:52>> Council member Brown.

55:57>> I don't see where this solves the issue

55:59of allowing dogs to be able to go in and

56:01out and be outside. In fact, I

56:03it appears that it makes it more

56:05restrictive for that. That was a concern

56:06before. Is that addressed anywhere?

56:09>> That was a discussion. There's a side

56:11yard right now currently in the building

56:13and then

56:14this will also allow to the back.

56:16There's a lot of green space in the back

56:18of the building. That was part of the

56:19discussion as well while we were working

56:21on the kind of doing an additional

56:23layout and working with the architect.

56:25>> So if I go to either of the other two

56:26shelters that County Animal Services

56:28manages, the kennels are built in a way

56:30that dogs can go inside and outside at

56:32will. Which means they can go outside

56:35and do their business and not have to

56:36have it in the kennels with them

56:38overnight. I don't like the idea that

56:40they can't do that and any expansion

56:42would have to go out into that side yard

56:43or that parking lot, correct?

56:46>> That actually I'll defer to

56:47>> Mr. Zagers, Ms. Ward can come up and

56:48address that.

56:49>> Yeah, let me

56:52I will let the person who's actually

56:53going to utilize the building speak.

56:55>> Good evening, ma'am.

56:57>> Good evening. So my understanding is

56:59your concern dogs or about animals

57:01having access to indoor and outdoor

57:02kennels at the same time.

57:04>> Yes.

57:04>> So the issue with that would be

57:08heating air. So this particular building

57:12is not designed in such a way that we

57:14could have the space needed to do

57:16something like that on either side of

57:18the building or in the back.

57:19You wouldn't get the kennel space that

57:21you need to do that and it's not exactly

57:25I'm not going to say it's not best

57:26practice because I do like those kind of

57:27facilities. But it's not

57:30a requirement through the state, through

57:32national organizations, anything like

57:35that. It's a personal preference on each

57:36shelter on how they design their their

57:38building. The majority of shelters today

57:40are designed indoor only with leading

57:43outside.

57:46>> Just because it's not a requirement

57:48doesn't mean it it isn't necessary. And

57:51the yard here, so if we're going based

57:53off of the design, there would be how

57:55many kennels?

57:57>> If I It's been a little bit since I've

57:59seen the plans.

57:59>> Do you have them with you, buddy?

58:04>> I believe it kept us right at 29, if I

58:06remember correctly.

58:12Since it wasn't it on the presentation?

58:15>> Uh it was. Can we put it up on screen?

58:17>> Yeah.

58:18>> This is the older one.

58:19>> In fact, yeah, this is the older one,

58:20but the expanded more right there.

58:23>> That was We brought up the PowerPoint as

58:24well.

58:25Yes, I was like I was pretty sure I saw

58:27it in here.

58:28So, we've got Oh, he didn't know them.

58:30>> Yeah, each side. So, it would look like

58:32we have 12 on each.

58:33>> 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20

58:43It would expand us from the 29 kennels

58:45that we have currently to 34.

58:47>> So, we reduce the amount of space that

58:48the dogs have in their kennels, and then

58:50that means that we have more dogs that

58:53would have to be taken outside by a

58:55volunteer by an employee in order to get

58:57any exercise.

58:59The yard is is going to be pretty small.

59:02So, that limits the amount of time dogs

59:05have to be outside to exercise. And

59:06again,

59:08that means that they're in these

59:09internal kennels

59:12where the only option for them to do

59:13their business is inside that same

59:15kennel that they're sleeping in. So, is

59:17there going to be a

59:18a drain or a canal or something to to

59:22automatically push all of that out of

59:24the the that they're in?

59:26>> So, kennels are designed at a slope,

59:28yes. So, any

59:30liquid matter would run back and there's

59:32a drain in every kennel, absolutely. As

59:34far as space

59:36I mean, you can't tell off this drawing,

59:38I'm going to agree with that, but it's

59:40utilizing the space of the building

59:42differently. So, it doesn't necessarily

59:44mean that the kennels are going to be

59:46smaller.

59:47I do want to point that out.

59:49>> And to the the point about being able to

59:51have the dogs exercise and be outside

59:53when we're increasing the number of dogs

59:55there?

59:58>> Right now that at the building that

1:00:00they're currently located at, only half

1:00:02of those animals have indoor outdoor

1:00:03access. The others are in a building, 36

1:00:06of them.

1:00:07>> But we have larger yards

1:00:08>> to be play yards that are separated out.

1:00:11I'm sorry?

1:00:12>> But we have a larger yard and yards that

1:00:13are play yards that are separated out.

1:00:16>> That is correct, but at this facility,

1:00:18there what you can't see on here, you

1:00:20can see it. Can we go to the overhead?

1:00:22Where's the overhead?

1:00:24>> Uh go back.

1:00:28>> So, it's kind of hard to see in this and

1:00:30is there a way to No. But so, where the

1:00:33star is, that's the building, of course.

1:00:34Then you see that grass area in the

1:00:36back.

1:00:37If we are not doing an addition to the

1:00:39actual building at this time, that area

1:00:41had already been planned to be fenced in

1:00:43as a play yard, actually multiple play

1:00:45yards. We talked about putting two over

1:00:47there.

1:00:48So, that would give this facility five

1:00:50different play yards.

1:00:51>> So, everything I've heard tonight is

1:00:52that this doesn't necessarily fit our

1:00:55exact needs, but we're trying to

1:00:56shoehorn it in.

1:00:58Um and so, my concern with that is what

1:01:01happens later on if we're shoehorning in

1:01:03just because we already bought the

1:01:05building, now we're trying to make the

1:01:06building work for what we wanted it to

1:01:08work for in the beginning.

1:01:10What happens in the future? I'd rather

1:01:12spend $3 million to build something new

1:01:15because then we can we sell this and put

1:01:17it back on the tax rolls and with that,

1:01:19my time is up.

1:01:21>> Council member Kendricks.

1:01:26>> Uh good afternoon. I think you guys are

1:01:28doing a great job. I'm loving your plan

1:01:30and how you trying to move forward with

1:01:32everything and um I understand um all

1:01:35complaints and and everything, but um

1:01:39no matter what we do, we're not going to

1:01:42totally get 100% agreement with whatever

1:01:45happens. And um I appreciate the fact um

1:01:49I know there's a lot of animal lovers

1:01:51out here. Me myself, I'm not one, but I

1:01:54understand

1:01:55um those facts. Now, I understand part

1:01:58of the reason

1:02:00was

1:02:02all of the walls are bare now. Um and it

1:02:05was because of how they was washing the

1:02:07dogs and the type of material that the

1:02:11walls was made from. So, the new

1:02:13material that is going to be put up

1:02:15there, it will prevent all of that from

1:02:18happening again. Am I correct?

1:02:20>> I'll let you answer that.

1:02:21>> That's correct. I think it was bare

1:02:23drywall before. We're going to be using

1:02:25cement board. Uh

1:02:26there was some other products that the

1:02:28architects were looking at. He's has

1:02:29experience in animal kennels, animal

1:02:32shelters, and knows what products we

1:02:34need to prevent the same thing from

1:02:36happening.

1:02:37>> So, and I think that's a plus um when we

1:02:40come with what was what's affordable and

1:02:44doing what we can do to make the

1:02:46situation better. Um

1:02:49>> [clears throat]

1:02:53>> Uh

1:02:54you answered all my questions and once

1:02:56again, um I I just say I thank you for

1:02:59moving forward with this. You know,

1:03:00we're never going to please everyone,

1:03:02but we're trying our best

1:03:03>> [clears throat]

1:03:04>> to do the best thing for the animals and

1:03:07the citizens of Killeen. Thank you.

1:03:10>> Thank you.

1:03:12>> Good.

1:03:12>> Councilman Rollins.

1:03:13>> Huh?

1:03:15>> Okay. Thank you so much.

1:03:17Appreciate it.

1:03:18>> Got it.

1:03:19I didn't steal it.

1:03:20>> No, but just keep dropping everything.

1:03:22Thank you.

1:03:26Okay, we will

1:03:29now go into citizens comments. Citizens

1:03:33will have 3 minutes to speak with 1

1:03:34minute

1:03:36Tom Malott for the city council to

1:03:39respond with a statement or explanation

1:03:42without engaging in dialogue. Madam City

1:03:45Secretary, please call the person's

1:03:46name.

1:03:47>> First name is Dr. Sunni Craft.

1:03:57>> Good evening, ma'am.

1:04:00>> Good evening, Mayor and members of the

1:04:01council.

1:04:03I'm speaking today regarding the

1:04:05discussion item sponsored by the

1:04:06Community Development Department

1:04:08regarding the homelessness service plan.

1:04:12We are standing here tonight discussing

1:04:14this crisis and we are actually 72 days

1:04:17away from December the 31st when our

1:04:20city's only overnight shelter operations

1:04:22permanently end.

1:04:24We are staring down a severe winter and

1:04:26right now our city is in a total

1:04:29operational gridlock.

1:04:31As a taxpayer, I want to make one

1:04:34position completely clear. Local

1:04:36taxpayer money must not be increased to

1:04:39support any resolution that fails to

1:04:42implement an immediate viable stop gap

1:04:45rule.

1:04:46Right now we are in a physical

1:04:48contradiction.

1:04:50We currently have 2200000

1:04:54uh 22,220.

1:04:57Well, anyway, uh sitting idle in a fund

1:05:00earmarked for homeless shelter services.

1:05:03We do not have a money problem. We have

1:05:05a regulatory problem. The strict

1:05:08conditional use permit conditions placed

1:05:10on the 1002 Medical Drive project

1:05:13including the commercial masonry wall

1:05:15mandate and the indoor only restriction

1:05:18effectively functions as a rejection.

1:05:22It placed a multi-thousand dollar

1:05:24infrastructure burden on a non-profit

1:05:26budget causing them to walk away.

1:05:29Our neighborhood demands standards are

1:05:31non-profits has financial limits and

1:05:33neighboring cities like Temple and

1:05:35Austin has strict local stopgap

1:05:38residency firewalls that prevent us from

1:05:40transferring this population elsewhere.

1:05:43If this council refuses

1:05:46If this can

1:05:48If this council refuses to fund the

1:05:50masonry walls on private property and

1:05:53the neighborhood refuses to stop the

1:05:56restriction throwing more taxpayer cash

1:05:59into the wind will not build a single

1:06:01overnight bed.

1:06:03The logical path forward is not raising

1:06:05taxes

1:06:06operation rise. The logical path to

1:06:09utilizing administrative tools you

1:06:11already possess. If the council wants to

1:06:13protect human life this month without

1:06:15wasting public funds, we must bypass the

1:06:18gridlock by utilizing a local emergency

1:06:21declaration or a temporary winter zoning

1:06:23overlay.

1:06:25Lower the permanent procedural barriers

1:06:27for the next 90 to 120 days so that the

1:06:30basic overnight operations can exist

1:06:33during the coldest months. Do not ask

1:06:35taxpayers of Killeen for more money to

1:06:38fund a structural stalemate. Hold the

1:06:40line on the budget, adjust the rigid

1:06:42rules to implement a real temporary

1:06:44stopgap before the top clock runs out on

1:06:47December the 31st. First, the 494 thanks

1:06:51you.

1:06:53>> Madam City Secretary.

1:06:58Next name.

1:06:58>> Second speaker is J.T. Han.

1:07:05>> I know.

1:07:09I me.

1:07:11>> Good evening, sir.

1:07:12>> Good evening, honorable council

1:07:14honorable mayor, council. May I pray

1:07:16first, please?

1:07:17Dear heavenly Father, I just lift you up

1:07:20lift up the city [clears throat] of

1:07:21Killeen and every member on this

1:07:22council.

1:07:23Give us wisdom, patience, and open

1:07:25hearts.

1:07:26Soften every spirit in this room as we

1:07:28listen to one another and not just our

1:07:30own position.

1:07:31Lord, you see every man, woman, and

1:07:33child in Bell County

1:07:35who has no safe place to lay their head

1:07:37tonight. Unite our city, our county, our

1:07:40churches, our nonprofits, and our

1:07:42departments.

1:07:44Let us trust

1:07:45Let trust [clears throat] come first so

1:07:47we stand in the same team. Help us move

1:07:50from helping [clears throat] people

1:07:51survive to helping people thrive.

1:07:56Honorable mayor and council, thank you.

1:07:59I'm here to ask for a seat at the table.

1:08:03What we are doing

1:08:04is bigger than Medical Drive, bigger

1:08:07than Gilmer. We are working on a

1:08:08comprehensive plan with multiple parts,

1:08:11multiple locations, and a unified body

1:08:13of partners.

1:08:14Some of these groups have worked in the

1:08:16homeless

1:08:17worked with the homeless for over 20

1:08:19years, and they're walking beside me,

1:08:21mentoring me, supporting the work that

1:08:23I'm doing that we're doing, and I'm not

1:08:25doing that and we're not doing this

1:08:27alone.

1:08:28Over the last 10 years, the city has

1:08:29invested over $2 million in supporting

1:08:31our unhoused neighbors. This includes

1:08:34renovations to support Friends in

1:08:35Crisis, the improvements on Green Avenue

1:08:37Park, and the and the [clears throat]

1:08:39police community engagement unit.

1:08:41I know some of that came through grants

1:08:43and that wasn't a direct cost to the

1:08:45city,

1:08:46but it a lot has been [clears throat]

1:08:47spent to manage the problem, and it

1:08:49keeps growing.

1:08:51We are helping people survive instead of

1:08:53helping them thrive. If you choose us as

1:08:55a partner, we're ready to change that.

1:08:58Not with short-term reaction, but with a

1:09:00a solution.

1:09:01Let me be transparent with the medical

1:09:04drive CUP will cost us. The masonry wall

1:09:07requires engineering, permitting, and

1:09:09construction.

1:09:11This is a 3 to 8 week process depending

1:09:13on the engineering and the labor that's

1:09:16available to do that.

1:09:19That cost would be $25,000

1:09:21depending on what the engineering

1:09:23requires for the footer of the wall.

1:09:26The grease trap that was told to me the

1:09:27day of the meeting was

1:09:30>> [clears throat]

1:09:30>> will have to be added to the existing

1:09:32plumbing and adding a 125 gallon trap to

1:09:35the sewer line. This is a 4 to 6,000

1:09:38plus permits, inspections, and new

1:09:40flooring plus a three-compartment sink

1:09:42of $750.

1:09:44I understand the grease trap and we we

1:09:47have to do that to be a um

1:09:49certified with Bell County, but this

1:09:51kitchen has passed the health health

1:09:52department before.

1:09:54On the wall, I would formally request a

1:09:57variance. We will repair our secure our

1:10:00existing fence and

1:10:02that is solid and safe. Our current

1:10:04shelter has no fence at all and we have

1:10:07not had a problem with our neighbors.

1:10:09If a if there is a problem to ever

1:10:11develop, we would consider doing a 8-ft

1:10:14metal privacy fence.

1:10:16I haven't been shown

1:10:17>> [clears throat]

1:10:18>> I haven't

1:10:19been shown a safety or operational need

1:10:21that justifies spending $25,000

1:10:24for 8-ft privacy 8-ft masonry privacy

1:10:27fence.

1:10:29We have met with city staff. We have met

1:10:31with

1:10:32FIC with a tentative plan of action. We

1:10:34have looked at um

1:10:36the transition plan. Whether or not the

1:10:38trans we take this medical drive over,

1:10:42um

1:10:43this transitional plan will put a strain

1:10:45on our organization.

1:10:46>> is up, sir.

1:10:47>> All right. Thank you. Thank you for your

1:10:48time.

1:10:52>> Madam City Secretary.

1:10:53>> Next speaker is Anca Nego.

1:11:02>> [snorts]

1:11:06>> Good evening, ma'am.

1:11:07>> Good evening. Thank you, Council and

1:11:08Mayor.

1:11:09Um

1:11:10first of all, it wasn't clear from the

1:11:12presentation about the a building on

1:11:14Rancier. I know the mold was remediated,

1:11:17but is the building ready to be placed

1:11:21for sale or does it still need work

1:11:23before like a finishing the walls before

1:11:26you can sell it if that's what you

1:11:28decide.

1:11:29Also, uh the building appraised for $1.8

1:11:32million in 2023.

1:11:35So, if you're spending

1:11:36another $1.7 million, then you're

1:11:39spending $3.4 million on a building

1:11:42that's worth $1.8 million. I want to

1:11:44remind the

1:11:44I want to remind the Council about the

1:11:46special meeting that you had.

1:11:49Thank you for that and we discussed the

1:11:52issues about the building.

1:11:54You mentioned several of you mentioned

1:11:55serious concerns about pouring money

1:11:58into an old building,

1:12:00taking out the walls, the flooring, and

1:12:02then finding out whatever.

1:12:05Uh you'd have to bring uh the electrical

1:12:08wiring up to code.

1:12:10Uh you'd have

1:12:11to upgrade the ventilation. Just adding

1:12:14a few drains is not going to solve the

1:12:16problem. And then remember um

1:12:19the building was just fine in 2023 and

1:12:222024 according to Animal Services.

1:12:26They were okay with it.

1:12:28They made a big deal about opening a

1:12:29brand new

1:12:31animal shelter facility.

1:12:34So, how did it go from how amazing it

1:12:36was in 2024 to now saying, "Oh, it's not

1:12:40what we need. We need to put more money

1:12:42into it." So,

1:12:45what can we believe? Can how much can we

1:12:47believe?

1:12:49Uh

1:12:51the Commerce location is more

1:12:53appropriate. It's away from

1:12:56uh residential houses, which means that

1:12:59the dogs can be outside and bark and

1:13:01make all kinds of noise, which

1:13:03they cannot do that at that location.

1:13:06And I remember in the past that um

1:13:10it was brought up by the assistant city

1:13:12manager that it's located near a park,

1:13:15the one on um Ranchero.

1:13:17And volunteers can take dogs to the

1:13:20park.

1:13:21But nobody on the city council

1:13:24thought about asking, well, doesn't that

1:13:26put the public in danger? You're taking

1:13:28a dog you know very little about. You're

1:13:31crossing Ranchero,

1:13:33a major road. There is no pedestrian

1:13:35crossing there. You're going into a park

1:13:38where there could be loose animals you

1:13:40know nothing about. Well, the council in

1:13:442023 thought that was a great idea.

1:13:47I I don't think it is. I don't think it

1:13:49should be encouraged at all.

1:13:52Um [sighs]

1:13:53so

1:13:54why didn't

1:13:56uh the staff bring back the option that

1:13:59some of you brought up? Sell this

1:14:01property and build something brand new

1:14:03the way we need it at Commerce on

1:14:06Commerce Street. Thank you.

1:14:08>> Thank you, ma'am.

1:14:11Madam

1:14:12Secretary.

1:14:13>> Speaker four is Michael Fornino.

1:14:26>> Good evening, sir.

1:14:29If he's going to heckle me, he needs to

1:14:30be thrown out.

1:14:33Okay.

1:14:35You know exactly who I'm talking about.

1:14:39You You have 3 minutes, sir.

1:14:42Tonight's vocabulary word is masonry.

1:14:44There's no such word as masonary.

1:14:47Zephyr Road, Willis Springs Road coming

1:14:49up. Uh I would expect that with new city

1:14:52management, etc. that we don't have to

1:14:54put up with the nonsense that we did

1:14:56with all the other roads and projects

1:14:57that are still languishing. The minute

1:14:59they fall off pace, behind schedule,

1:15:01over budget.

1:15:02I would expect the city staff to get off

1:15:06their butts, get on the project, and get

1:15:07them back working.

1:15:10Not have to deal with

1:15:11things going on where the previous city

1:15:13manager, his solution was "Well, what do

1:15:15you want me to do?" Well, be the city

1:15:17manager, get it done.

1:15:20That applies to you, Zephyr Road,

1:15:21especially with all those houses there.

1:15:23There's enough inconvenience for the

1:15:24people on Watercrest.

1:15:28Since we breezed over a lot of this on

1:15:29the consent agenda,

1:15:31item number three, the minutes of the

1:15:33special joint meeting.

1:15:35Uh I would like some clarification on

1:15:37exactly what that final vote was.

1:15:40I would ask my direct council

1:15:42representative, but he doesn't answer

1:15:43phone calls or emails anymore. And 15

1:15:46minutes after the vote, as quoted by the

1:15:48Killeen Daily Herald, when asked, "What

1:15:50did you vote on?"

1:15:51"I don't know, you'll have to ask the

1:15:53city attorney." So,

1:15:55that's on you, sir.

1:15:57Uh if you don't know what you're doing,

1:15:59there's the door.

1:16:00You can take it yourself, or we can show

1:16:02it you to you later.

1:16:04>> Is it written directly to me, please,

1:16:06sir?

1:16:06>> Okay.

1:16:07Well, I didn't mention any names.

1:16:09With regard to

1:16:11families in crisis, okay?

1:16:13Once again, okay, let's contrast this.

1:16:15Such outpouring of love and support for

1:16:17the animals. I mean,

1:16:20where where are we at with this?

1:16:21Families in crisis, the homeless

1:16:22situation. I mean, you've had years to

1:16:25deal with this. This animal shelter

1:16:27nonsense is

1:16:30well documented and being addressed

1:16:32rather quickly.

1:16:34I I find it a little disconcerting that

1:16:36this council has more love and

1:16:37compassion on the record for our furry

1:16:40little animals, as if there's not any

1:16:43animals without fur.

1:16:45But,

1:16:46in this case,

1:16:48that I think your priorities need to

1:16:49shift. I mean, and tangibly so, not just

1:16:52words. We need action. We need a plan.

1:16:55This start and stop with families in

1:16:56crisis, all the ridiculous conditional

1:17:00use that you are putting on Armor of

1:17:01God,

1:17:04either get it solved or admit that you

1:17:06don't know what you're doing.

1:17:08With regard to electric vehicle

1:17:09chargers, we still have

1:17:11neighborhoods in this city that have

1:17:13been waiting on streetlights

1:17:16for years. And now, all of a sudden, we

1:17:18need EV chargers?

1:17:21Just like with the KISD property, I

1:17:23mean, our priorities.

1:17:25Why are we buying property or

1:17:27considering buying property from KISD

1:17:29only to sell it off? When did we get

1:17:31into the real estate business? Let KISD

1:17:33sell it off. And then, whoever buys it,

1:17:35bring it up as a zoning issue.

1:17:37I don't like it. This is more real

1:17:38estate nonsense.

1:17:40I smell a rat in here somewhere.

1:17:42There's no reason we need to be the

1:17:43middle men

1:17:45on this whatsoever.

1:17:47Get your priorities straight.

1:17:51>> Madam Secretary.

1:17:53>> Speaker number five is Ebony Jackson.

1:17:56Ebony Jackson, pardon me.

1:18:03>> I beg your pardon, Mr.

1:18:05>> It's okay.

1:18:06>> Good afternoon. Good evening, ma'am.

1:18:07>> Good afternoon. Good evening, Mayor and

1:18:10members of the Killeen City Council. My

1:18:13name is Ebony Jackson. I'm the director

1:18:16of the Bell County Indigent Health Care

1:18:18Program. I'm also a member of the

1:18:21Central Texas Homeless Coalition and

1:18:23have been for several years.

1:18:25I came before you today to discuss

1:18:27homelessness, not simply as a housing

1:18:30concern, but as a public health and

1:18:32community issue. Imagine living outdoors

1:18:36during extreme Texas heat, freezing

1:18:38temperatures, heavy rain, or severe

1:18:41weather without a safe place to rest,

1:18:43bathe, or recover.

1:18:45Prolonged exposure can lead to

1:18:48dehydration, heatstroke, hypothermia,

1:18:52respiratory infections, and serious

1:18:54medical complications.

1:18:56Now, imagine facing those conditions

1:18:59while battling terminal cancer,

1:19:02kidney failure, advanced heart disease,

1:19:04diabetes, or chronic respiratory

1:19:06disease.

1:19:08Some individuals require chemotherapy,

1:19:11dialysis, oxygen, medications, wound

1:19:15care, or hospice services. Without

1:19:18stable shelter, managing these

1:19:20conditions become extremely difficult.

1:19:23The mental and emotional consequences

1:19:26are equally concerning.

1:19:28Depression, anxiety, trauma, isolation,

1:19:31and the daily uncertainty of survival

1:19:34can further compromise an individual's

1:19:36health. And these challenges do not stop

1:19:39with the individual.

1:19:41Ambulances respond,

1:19:43emergency rooms provide treatment, law

1:19:46enforcement becomes involved. Some

1:19:48individuals enter the county jail with

1:19:51serious medical and behavioral health

1:19:54needs that still require treatment. The

1:19:56cost of homelessness does not disappear

1:19:59because we lack a shelter. It can shift

1:20:02to over hospitals, emergency responders,

1:20:04county health services, jail medical

1:20:07operation, and ultimately our taxpayers.

1:20:11A homeless shelter or daytime resource

1:20:13center could provide protection from

1:20:16dangerous weather, hygiene facilities,

1:20:19health screening, mental health

1:20:21referrals, and connections to housing

1:20:23and employment resource. A day center

1:20:26cannot replace overnight shelter, but

1:20:28both can play an important role. I

1:20:31respectfully encourage collaboration

1:20:33among the city, Bell County, hospitals,

1:20:36non-profit organizations, and community

1:20:38partners.

1:20:40We can either continue responding when

1:20:42people reach

1:20:44and acquire a crisis or invest in

1:20:47opportunities to help prevent that

1:20:49crisis because homelessness is not

1:20:51simply about having nowhere to live. We

1:20:54must ask ourselves, what is the human

1:20:56and financial cost of having nowhere to

1:20:58go? Homelessness is expensive because

1:21:01homelessness is not simply about having

1:21:04nowhere to live, it is about having

1:21:05nowhere safe to heal, recover, grow,

1:21:08rebuild a life filled with dignity,

1:21:10stability, and opportunity. Thank you.

1:21:14>> Thank you, ma'am. Madam Secretary.

1:21:18>> Ms. Jackson was the last speaker.

1:21:23>> [snorts]

1:21:25>> Did

1:21:25>> Okay.

1:21:27>> Okay.

1:21:31>> Uh sixth speaker is Heather McMillan.

1:21:34>> Good evening, ma'am.

1:21:35>> Good evening. Um I'm actually here to

1:21:39discuss the considering amendments for

1:21:42the special meeting of the City Council

1:21:43joint meeting and planning zoning and

1:21:45commission on October 5th.

1:21:47Um currently right now the City Council

1:21:50is only authorizing Zoom in for meetings

1:21:53during actual City Council meetings. You

1:21:57are not authorizing it for planning and

1:21:59zoning or any other commission meetings

1:22:01or special meetings. You have invested

1:22:03in those services and you're silencing

1:22:05the citizens by not allowing them to

1:22:07speak during those meetings.

1:22:10During that meeting you made a decision

1:22:12about data centers that citizens were

1:22:14not aware of and were not able to speak

1:22:17about because it wasn't publicized, nor

1:22:20were we able allowed to speak via Zoom.

1:22:23So I request that you all change your

1:22:26current policy and allow Zoom meetings

1:22:29for also any special meetings and for

1:22:33planning and zoning because it is only

1:22:35for

1:22:36city council meetings. Thank you.

1:22:40>> Thank you, Madam City Secretary.

1:22:45>> I believe that is the last speaker.

1:22:46Thank you.

1:22:48>> We will now

1:22:53Yes.

1:22:57I believe we want to go into our regular

1:22:59session, Madam City Secretary. Consent

1:23:02items, please.

1:23:03>> Mayor, did you want to

1:23:05recognize Council Member Nash King?

1:23:09Or is that in error?

1:23:10>> I didn't Council Member Nash King.

1:23:12Didn't not see you.

1:23:13>> Thank you,

1:23:14Madam Secretary, Mr. Mayor.

1:23:17One of the things and

1:23:19Madam City Attorney, stop me if I'm

1:23:21wrong.

1:23:23One of the things I hope we do consider

1:23:26uh the Zoom for all meetings.

1:23:29That's all if we have the IT capability.

1:23:32That's all I want to say.

1:23:34>> Thank you, ma'am.

1:23:38Okay.

1:23:40Let's get through our

1:23:42consent items.

1:23:44Can we probably take a break here? We

1:23:45will now go into our regular session,

1:23:47Madam Secretary. Consent items, please.

1:23:53>> Number three, MN-26-040.

1:23:58Consider minutes of special city council

1:24:00joint meeting with planning and zoning

1:24:02commission of October 5th, 2026.

1:24:08Item four, MN-26-041.

1:24:13Consider minutes of regular city council

1:24:15meeting of October 8th, 2026.

1:24:19Item five, RS-26-164.

1:24:23Consider a memorandum resolution

1:24:25authorizing a funding agreement with

1:24:28Families in Crisis to support short-term

1:24:30operations for the Friends in Crisis

1:24:33program in the amount of $116,000.

1:24:38Item six,

1:24:40RS-26-165,

1:24:43consider a memorandum resolution

1:24:45authorizing the city manager to enter

1:24:48into a grant agreement with the Texas

1:24:50Department of Transportation for the

1:24:52purpose of a step grant. Item seven,

1:24:55RS-26-166,

1:24:59consider a memorandum resolution

1:25:01authorizing the Solid Waste Division to

1:25:03purchase containers for the City of

1:25:05Killeen's solid waste collection system

1:25:08in the amount of $394,600.

1:25:12Item eight, RS-26-167,

1:25:16consider a memorandum resolution

1:25:18approving the renewal of the copier

1:25:20lease agreement services agreement with

1:25:23Kerbow's Office Systems for an

1:25:25additional 60-month term in the amount

1:25:27of $371,100.

1:25:31Item nine, RS-26-168,

1:25:36consider a memorandum resolution

1:25:38authorizing the procurement of fleet

1:25:40parts, TNTX Lone Star Truck Group, NAPA,

1:25:45Third Coast Distributors, Mac Haik Ford

1:25:48Lincoln, and O'Reilly's Auto Parts in an

1:25:51amount of $544,903

1:25:54and tires through Southern Tire Mart in

1:25:57an amount of $236,602

1:26:01for fiscal year 2027.

1:26:04Item 10, RS-26-169,

1:26:08consider a memorandum res- authorizing

1:26:11the purchase of personal protective

1:26:13equipment from North American Fire

1:26:15Equipment Company, NAFECO, in the amount

1:26:19of $302,486.30.

1:26:25Item 11, RS-26-170,

1:26:29consider a memorandum resolution

1:26:31approving the inspection, cleaning, and

1:26:33repair of personal protective equipment,

1:26:36PPE, through Lion Total Care in the

1:26:39amount of $111,707.25.

1:26:44Item 12, RS-26-171,

1:26:48consider a memorandum authorizing the

1:26:51purchase of fire department uniforms

1:26:53from Impact Promotional Services LLC DBA

1:26:58Got You Covered Workwear and Uniforms

1:27:01and Webb's Uniforms LLC in the combined

1:27:03amount of $157,881.

1:27:09Item 13, RS-26-172, consider

1:27:14a memorandum resolution updating the

1:27:16authorization of City of Killeen

1:27:19officials to submit the grant

1:27:21application for the fiscal year 2027

1:27:25Victims of Crime Act, VOCA, Crisis

1:27:28Assistance Program grant through the

1:27:31Office of the Governor, Crime Justice

1:27:33Division, and to accept any subsequently

1:27:37awarded grant.

1:27:40>> Council, I need a

1:27:42motion.

1:27:43Councilmember Brown.

1:27:46>> I move to approve the consent agenda

1:27:48with the exception of item number five,

1:27:50RS-26-164,

1:27:54to consider a memorandum resolution

1:27:56authorizing funding with Families in

1:27:59Crisis.

1:28:04>> Uh is there a second?

1:28:08>> [snorts]

1:28:10>> Councilmember Kimble.

1:28:11>> I second.

1:28:12>> Okay.

1:28:13>> [clears throat]

1:28:13>> Uh motion has

1:28:16seconded by Councilman Kimball to

1:28:18approve the agenda with the exception of

1:28:21um item number five RS-26164.

1:28:27Uh is there any discussion?

1:28:30All in favor signify by yes. All opposed

1:28:33no.

1:28:45>> [snorts]

1:28:49>> Okay, we're waiting for the results.

1:28:53Everybody push.

1:28:58Okay.

1:29:00There's no no results.

1:29:02All in favor uh

1:29:04Raise your hand, please.

1:29:07Cuz I'm not getting results.

1:29:09Okay.

1:29:11Um all opposed?

1:29:14Okay.

1:29:16Let the record show uh

1:29:21Uh you're you're opposing?

1:29:23>> No, I'm opposing. I'm the one opposed.

1:29:25>> Okay.

1:29:26Okay, so there was three to three to

1:29:28one.

1:29:29>> Okay.

1:29:31>> Okay, motion passed with three to one.

1:29:33>> Okay, were there I'm sorry to ask Were

1:29:36there two abstentions? Mr. Kendrick and

1:29:38Ms. Gonzalez?

1:29:41Or did the

1:29:43system mess up?

1:29:45>> There was

1:29:46There was uh three that raised their

1:29:48hand

1:29:49with yes and one opposed.

1:29:53>> The other two have left the dais.

1:29:56I'm sorry. You can't see, but the other

1:29:57two have left the dais.

1:29:58>> He left the dais.

1:30:00>> Oh, okay. Oh, okay.

1:30:02>> Yes. Let the record show that he he's

1:30:04not here for this vote and also Mayor

1:30:06Pro Tem.

1:30:11So So it passes

1:30:133-1.

1:30:18Okay. Thank you. At this time, we'll

1:30:20take a uh

1:30:24We'll take a break.

1:30:47We'll call this meeting back to order.

1:30:54Okay.

1:30:57Council

1:31:00Item number five was pulled. Um that's

1:31:02RS-26-

1:31:05164.

1:31:07Would you like to uh

1:31:09hear the presentation again, or you

1:31:12discuss it?

1:31:15You can signify by

1:31:17You would like to hear the presentation.

1:31:18Okay.

1:31:20Oh, you did.

1:31:22>> Good evening.

1:31:22>> Ms. Vicknair.

1:31:23>> Thank you. Um F I C I thank you, sir. F

1:31:27I C provides emergency shelter and

1:31:29supportive services to persons

1:31:30experiencing homelessness through

1:31:32several programs, including the domestic

1:31:34violence shelter, emergency solutions

1:31:36grant, and emergency sheltering, also

1:31:39known as the Friends in Crisis program.

1:31:41Due to lack of funding, the Friends

1:31:43program was scheduled to cease

1:31:44operations effective September 30th of

1:31:47this year.

1:31:49This timeline illustrates

1:31:51what has occurred from June 2nd, when

1:31:53Friends

1:31:54uh F I C came to ask for funding for the

1:31:57Friends program back in June, up until

1:31:59August 25th, when City Council issued a

1:32:02motion of direction to set aside

1:32:04$116,000 for the Friends program for

1:32:07short-term fund funding from September

1:32:09through December of 2026.

1:32:12>> [snorts]

1:32:13>> On August 25th, 2026, staff presented an

1:32:17update on the Friends in Crisis program

1:32:19to Council. Council voted to fund the

1:32:22Friends program for the months of

1:32:23September through December.

1:32:25The funding agreement is to include a

1:32:27transition plan and an exit strategy for

1:32:30each client. To receive funding, FIC

1:32:32also had to agree to serve up to 40

1:32:34persons through the end of the Friends

1:32:36program, and the 40 persons would not

1:32:39include the veterans beds that they

1:32:41have. It would be in addition to.

1:32:44On September 2nd, staff met with FIC to

1:32:46discuss their proposed transition plan

1:32:48and the terms of the funding agreement.

1:32:50FIC provided a preliminary timeline for

1:32:52the cessation of the operations. FIC

1:32:54also agreed to provide templates for an

1:32:56exit strategy information form and

1:32:58consent to release form.

1:33:00And that consent to release form is to

1:33:02be used if there's another organization

1:33:04in which their clients would exit into

1:33:07for additional services.

1:33:10So, key terms of the funding agreement

1:33:11include serve up to 40 persons each

1:33:13month, provide a transition plan, which

1:33:15was attached to the presentation,

1:33:17a timeline for the termination of the

1:33:19program, again attached to the

1:33:21transition this presentation,

1:33:23an exit strategy for program

1:33:25participants which includes the type of

1:33:27exit and then a budget for each month of

1:33:30operation.

1:33:33Additional terms include accept

1:33:34referrals from the Homeless Outreach

1:33:36Team.

1:33:37Persons referred by HOT must be capable

1:33:40of providing personal self-care

1:33:41including hygiene, laundry, and ability

1:33:43to access and use the laboratory.

1:33:46And they also must allow the facility to

1:33:48serve as a warming and cooling station

1:33:50as needed by the City of Killeen Office

1:33:52of Homeland Security and Emergency

1:33:54Management.

1:33:56Staff recommends the City Council

1:33:57authorize the city manager or her

1:33:58designee to execute a funding agreement

1:34:01with Friends in Crisis for the Friends

1:34:02programs Friends program in the amount

1:34:04of $116,000.

1:34:09>> Okay, Councilmember Brown.

1:34:14>> Are you aware of any other organizations

1:34:16at this moment that are actively working

1:34:19on a homeless shelter?

1:34:22>> In this moment, yes, because I just

1:34:24heard tonight that

1:34:26there was another organization that we

1:34:28had previously talked to that are still

1:34:30wanting to pursue that.

1:34:32>> Okay.

1:34:33>> [snorts]

1:34:34>> Uh and then the warming center only is

1:34:38included for those months where we are

1:34:40funding FIC, correct?

1:34:42>> Yes.

1:34:42>> Okay.

1:34:43Now, I I just wanted to say I pulled

1:34:45this for a specific reason. There's a

1:34:48lot of confusion and I apologize to

1:34:50staff for my confusion at the beginning

1:34:52of this where it looked like we were

1:34:54going we were approving on this

1:34:56resolution an additional 116 over what

1:34:59we had approved before.

1:35:00Um

1:35:02Go ahead.

1:35:03>> I No, I was just saying

1:35:04>> Okay. So, from my understanding, I just

1:35:06need you to confirm this.

1:35:08We gave the motion of direction to fund

1:35:12the FIC program at $29,900

1:35:17a month for the four months. Then we did

1:35:20a budget amendment to say yes, the FY26

1:35:23funds can be used for this purpose.

1:35:26This resolution is just putting it in

1:35:29writing, giving legal authorization

1:35:31essentially for the city to make those

1:35:33payments as a result of what the council

1:35:35voted on instead of just a directive

1:35:38that we gave, correct?

1:35:39>> That is correct. Um except it's not

1:35:4129,900,

1:35:44it's a even 29,000.

1:35:46>> Okay. So, but again, I just wanted to

1:35:49assure the public that and I wanted to

1:35:51go through the presentation to show what

1:35:53that timeline was and to show that this

1:35:56is not a new item and then an additional

1:36:00amount of money over what we had

1:36:01discussed before, but this is just what

1:36:03we had already approved and now we're

1:36:05legally putting it in writing.

1:36:07>> Yes.

1:36:08>> Okay. So with that I move to approve

1:36:10RS-26-164.

1:36:14>> Okay, it was moved by Councilmember

1:36:16Brown.

1:36:18Is there a second, Mayor Pro Tem?

1:36:19>> Second.

1:36:20>> Okay. Is there any discussion?

1:36:25Okay, no discussion. All in favor

1:36:27signify by yes. All opposed no.

1:36:35Let the record show that Councilmember

1:36:37Nash King

1:36:39has left the meeting.

1:36:44The motion passed

1:36:465-0.

1:36:48Thank you, Council.

1:36:53Thank you, ma'am.

1:36:56Okay, we'll move on with um

1:37:00our resolutions.

1:37:02Uh

1:37:03this is in our regular session

1:37:06uh for individual consideration. Madam

1:37:09Secretary.

1:37:14>> Item 14.

1:37:16RS-26-173,

1:37:19consider a memorandum resolution

1:37:21accepting the award for the FY 2025

1:37:24Assistance to Firefighters Grant.

1:37:27>> Okay, Council. Would you like for Chief

1:37:30Fox to go over the presentation again?

1:37:38Okay.

1:37:39Um

1:37:40now then I need a motion, Councilmember

1:37:44Councilmember Brown.

1:37:47>> I move to approve RS-26-173.

1:37:53>> Is there a second?

1:37:54May I vote too?

1:37:56>> I second.

1:37:57>> I second that.

1:37:58>> Okay, is there any discussion?

1:38:01No discussion. All in favor signify by

1:38:03yes.

1:38:04All opposed no.

1:38:11Okay, motion passed 5

1:38:14to

1:38:18Madam Secretary.

1:38:22>> Item 15, RS-26-174.

1:38:26Consider a memorandum resolution

1:38:28authorizing the execution of a

1:38:30professional services agreement with

1:38:31Garver LLC for the design of Ziva Road

1:38:35reconstruction in the amount of 2

1:38:36million 51,906.90.

1:38:43>> Okay, Council, I will take a motion if

1:38:45you would not want to see the

1:38:47presentation.

1:38:50Okay.

1:38:52Um, okay. If there's [clears throat] no

1:38:53presentation, uh, Council member

1:38:55Kendricks.

1:38:57>> I'm going to approve

1:39:01RS-26-174.

1:39:06>> Is there a second?

1:39:08Council member

1:39:09Kimball.

1:39:09>> I second.

1:39:11>> Okay, is there any discussion?

1:39:14No discussion. All in favor signify by

1:39:18yes. All opposed no.

1:39:23Motion passed 5 to 0.

1:39:26Madam Secretary, next item.

1:39:29>> Item 16, RS-26-175.

1:39:34Consider a memorandum resolution

1:39:35authorizing the execution of a

1:39:37professional services agreement with

1:39:39Michael W. Mars Architects Inc. for the

1:39:42design of the Killeen Animal Shelter

1:39:44Renovations project in the amount of

1:39:46$191,500.

1:39:51>> Okay, uh Council, uh would you like to

1:39:53see the presentation again?

1:39:55If not, I would need a motion.

1:39:57>> Any discussion before

1:40:01>> Council member Brown?

1:40:06>> I

1:40:07Who is uh Mr. Zeigerson?

1:40:10I have a couple questions.

1:40:16>> [snorts]

1:40:22>> How much have we already paid the

1:40:23architect to go in and look at the

1:40:25property?

1:40:26>> Uh we haven't paid them anything yet.

1:40:28>> Okay, so they they did that for free as

1:40:30part of the agreement or

1:40:33>> They They did just to come over and give

1:40:35us a proposal. There was no no fees

1:40:37associated.

1:40:38>> Okay. How much does an appraisal cost on

1:40:41a building like this?

1:40:44>> Typically appraisals are at least on a

1:40:46land is six six to $7,000.

1:40:50>> Six to seven, so well below the $50,000

1:40:52limit. Got it.

1:40:55Um

1:41:00I I

1:41:01Again, we've been back and forth on

1:41:03this. I think everybody understands

1:41:05where I am. I appreciate the work that

1:41:07that has been put into it so far, but I

1:41:10don't feel good going forward spending

1:41:13$200,000 if we don't know that's the

1:41:15best use of this property or the land.

1:41:18So, at this time I would move to

1:41:20actually table this until we have an

1:41:23appraisal on the building.

1:41:26>> Okay, there's been a motion to uh table

1:41:28it. Is there a second?

1:41:32Is there a second?

1:41:33>> I second.

1:41:33>> No second.

1:41:35Council member Mayor Pro Tem?

1:41:37>> I second the motion.

1:41:39>> Seconded by um

1:41:40Mayor Pro Tem. Uh any discussion?

1:41:45Council member Kimball.

1:41:47>> Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Uh I'm just

1:41:50trying to figure out what the what the

1:41:51appraisal is going to be if we

1:41:53we bought the building for 1.7. If it I

1:41:55say it praises for the sake of this

1:41:57conversation for 1.7.

1:41:597.

1:42:00But

1:42:00what it

1:42:02I don't understand what

1:42:05why hold this up. We've

1:42:07There's There's two things that that has

1:42:08to happen. One, we have to

1:42:10>> [clears throat]

1:42:11>> we have to move forward

1:42:12we have to move forward with this item.

1:42:14We've been messing around with this item

1:42:15for for years. Seems like a lot of

1:42:18discussion. We now have a plan to move

1:42:21forward.

1:42:22Um

1:42:23I'm not saying it's the best plan,

1:42:25but there was a decisions that made

1:42:26before us. We are ready to move forward

1:42:28with this with the re- with the

1:42:30remodeled shelter. Uh I I think an an

1:42:34appraisal unless then it comes back

1:42:36double the amount of money or something,

1:42:37which I don't think it would be. But I I

1:42:40don't I say we just move forward and and

1:42:43and I've heard from the animal shelter

1:42:44people who want to use it every day.

1:42:46We've heard from the public. We've heard

1:42:49from from Mr. Zagers, the engineering

1:42:51firm. I I think we're ready to to to

1:42:53move forward with with this with this

1:42:55project. That's just my opinion, and I

1:42:57think we should vote to move this

1:42:59project forward.

1:43:01>> Council member Brown.

1:43:04>> So I'd like to clarify the the question

1:43:06on the point of the appraisal.

1:43:09Uh before we we do this because we

1:43:13anticipate in addition to this 200,000,

1:43:16there'll be another 1.7

1:43:19million dollar uh renovation that needs

1:43:21to be done. Is that correct?

1:43:22>> It was 1,450,000.

1:43:25>> So another one and a half million

1:43:26dollars.

1:43:27Um in addition to the 200,000 dollars.

1:43:31If we have an appraisal, then that

1:43:33allows us to potentially sell it, put it

1:43:35back on the tax rolls. We have a lot of

1:43:37property still over on Commerce where we

1:43:39could build a new building. Since we've

1:43:42identified that 1 and 1/2 million

1:43:43dollars,

1:43:44any amount that we get from uh selling

1:43:47that building could then be combined

1:43:49with that to build a new building. And

1:43:51we would have over 3 million available

1:43:53to us at that point.

1:43:55I think that it is much wiser. I know we

1:43:59need to do something, but originally the

1:44:02the eggs that that we paid for this with

1:44:04said that we would build and construct a

1:44:06new building over on Commerce.

1:44:08>> [snorts]

1:44:08>> Um not buy something and then try to

1:44:10make sure that it fits our needs after

1:44:12the fact. Uh there was never an

1:44:14evaluation done to see if it fit our

1:44:16needs. There was never an inspection

1:44:18done at the property. I don't want to

1:44:20get into another situation where we have

1:44:22change orders and delays because stuff

1:44:24comes up that it wasn't anticipated. If

1:44:26we do this, it deserves to be done

1:44:28right.

1:44:29It's not a matter of just getting it

1:44:30done now for the sake of getting it done

1:44:32now because other people have made

1:44:34decisions before us.

1:44:36We have the opportunity to fix something

1:44:38now, and I think that that is our our

1:44:40responsibility. Thank you.

1:44:43>> Councilman McKendricks.

1:44:49>> Um

1:44:50I [clears throat] am in total agreeance

1:44:52with um Councilman Campbell.

1:44:55Uh we need to move forward. Um this has

1:44:58been talked about. Um we cannot we we

1:45:02are not guaranteed

1:45:04to get uh

1:45:06a 1.4 million dollars if we try to

1:45:09resell.

1:45:10And I just think we need to move forward

1:45:13because if we don't move forward, then

1:45:16we're still stuck with

1:45:18with no animal shelter, which what we've

1:45:21been talking about. And it's it's time

1:45:24to move forward. That's my my um

1:45:28outlook on this.

1:45:30Um

1:45:31>> [clears throat]

1:45:31>> we don't we don't we don't get to say if

1:45:34because we know if if was a

1:45:38we'd all be hit. But um

1:45:40we don't get to say that. So, we just

1:45:42need to move forward on on this

1:45:45decision. The time is now to move

1:45:47forward.

1:45:48Thank you.

1:45:49>> Mayor Pro Tem

1:45:50>> Thank you. Um I'm in support of the

1:45:52appraisal for the fact that this is

1:45:54going to help

1:45:55>> [clears throat]

1:45:56>> potentially

1:45:57uh answer some underlying questions as

1:45:59far as uh this independent assessment

1:46:00will give us a document of basis for

1:46:02comparing options and evaluating the

1:46:05architectural recommendations. So,

1:46:07there's a lot of factors that go into

1:46:09why we would want an appraisal. Um are

1:46:11we solving the right problem here with

1:46:13this um particular building? It gives

1:46:16you a defensible financial uh

1:46:18determination. I mean, we can say now

1:46:20we're throwing numbers out here, but

1:46:21this will give us a defensible financial

1:46:23nation uh

1:46:24determination. So, when we're looking at

1:46:27uh we're only having thrown money at

1:46:28this building without making all the

1:46:29appropriate accommodations to make sure

1:46:31it was transferable from a uh veterinary

1:46:35clinic to a shelter, this would give us

1:46:37a defensible position for our

1:46:39constituents to make sure that we are

1:46:40making a solid financial decision and we

1:46:42also understand the baseline of what

1:46:45this building is worth and that it is

1:46:46actually feasible for even the design

1:46:49that's being recommended. I stand by

1:46:50that. Thank you.

1:46:52>> Councilmember Kimball

1:46:54>> Thank you, Ms. Mayor. I guess this for

1:46:56uh

1:46:56act uh interim city manager. Um is there

1:46:59land is there

1:47:01land to be purchased on Commerce? Is

1:47:03there anything for sale over there?

1:47:05>> Well, we have existing land there, but

1:47:06we really have to determine um what size

1:47:08facility we'd be able to to put there if

1:47:11you all are talking about building um

1:47:12another building right at that location

1:47:14alongside the existing building and and

1:47:17what we may have to demo of the existing

1:47:19facility.

1:47:19>> that was my next question. I mean,

1:47:20there's there's there's demo, there's uh

1:47:23we have to look at feasibility. I mean,

1:47:25we could probably I I mean, there's a

1:47:27possibility we could lose money on this.

1:47:29>> Very much so.

1:47:29>> Um

1:47:31I mean, it could be a net loss.

1:47:32Um because we don't even know what the

1:47:34the building would sell for on Rancier,

1:47:36what it would sell for today on on with

1:47:38today's market.

1:47:39>> Correct, or how long it will take to

1:47:40sell.

1:47:42Um And I'll add to just based on

1:47:44tracking other other shelters, I have

1:47:46not seen anyone recently build a

1:47:49facility for for $3 million, so

1:47:52price matters absolutely, but that's

1:47:54something to consider as well. I don't

1:47:55know that that $3 million to build new

1:47:57is necessarily a feasible number.

1:47:59>> that being said, I mean, we could

1:48:01instate if we approve this motion, get

1:48:04an appraisal, sell it, build on

1:48:07Commerce, we could lose a million

1:48:08dollars.

1:48:10>> Uh we could spend a lot more money.

1:48:11>> Or or excuse me, we could spend a lot

1:48:12more money.

1:48:13>> Right. And I don't have hard numbers in

1:48:14front of me, but but yes, we absolutely

1:48:16could spend more money.

1:48:17Um I'll just add to while council is

1:48:19discussing this. Um Andrew, correct me

1:48:21if I'm wrong, but once we did the

1:48:22remediation, we we didn't build back or

1:48:24replace the sheetrock or anything else.

1:48:26Is that correct?

1:48:27>> That's correct. It's just open studs,

1:48:29and so roughly half the building is just

1:48:32bare studs.

1:48:33>> Okay. So, if if that's something that

1:48:35council wants to do is consider putting

1:48:37this back on the market, that's probably

1:48:39something we might need to address. Um

1:48:41we could put it in its current state,

1:48:43but just something to consider.

1:48:51>> Councilmember Bess.

1:48:53Um

1:48:55the Copperas Cove um

1:48:57the brand new uh Copperas Cove uh

1:49:01animal facility cost $4.4 million.

1:49:05Just as a note.

1:49:08>> Yes, sir. The number I have is 4.7, and

1:49:10keep in mind that facility, they started

1:49:12that in 2021, and so we have to look at

1:49:14today's construction prices as well.

1:49:16>> So, uh sir, my question is um

1:49:19have have we already budgeted the 1.5

1:49:23million to complete the facility? Can

1:49:25you uh

1:49:25>> Yes, we have.

1:49:26>> So, that that money is set aside?

1:49:28>> Yes, it is. It was in the last fiscal

1:49:30year 2016.

1:49:31>> Yes.

1:49:32Uh what about the $200,000 for the

1:49:35design?

1:49:35>> That was all part of it as well.

1:49:37>> All right. So, that is from the previous

1:49:38budget. It's already earmarked, sitting

1:49:41there for us.

1:49:42>> Correct.

1:49:43>> Not coming from the new budget.

1:49:44>> That is correct.

1:49:45>> Thank you.

1:49:47>> Councilmember Brown.

1:49:51>> How much did we pay for remediation?

1:49:56>> I do not have that number.

1:49:59>> I do have that. 1 second, please.

1:50:05$45,000.

1:50:08>> Who uh when was the council voting on

1:50:11that and

1:50:12made the the motion to spend $45,000 to

1:50:15do remediation?

1:50:17>> The remediation was done prior to

1:50:20uh bringing this to council in July.

1:50:24>> Okay, and I I I take that back to there

1:50:27were was a request for a $6,000

1:50:30appraisal before we even brought this

1:50:32back that wasn't done.

1:50:34Um if $45,000 was spent on on a

1:50:37something before knowing if the council

1:50:39as a whole wanted to be forward with it.

1:50:42But the same architect who was giving us

1:50:43an estimate on how much this renovation

1:50:46would cost us by once they choose the

1:50:49design plans fully,

1:50:51gave [snorts] us an estimate that he

1:50:53thinks it would take about $3 million to

1:50:55build a new shelter. So, we either trust

1:50:58the estimates that he give us gave us or

1:51:01we don't trust the numbers that they

1:51:02give us. Um so, their estimate is $3

1:51:05million to build new.

1:51:07Building new is always cheaper than

1:51:09renovating. I think we have learned that

1:51:10in the city of Killeen. We've been told

1:51:13that in the city of Colleen when we were

1:51:14asked, "Why don't we just buy an

1:51:16abandoned school and renovate that and

1:51:18do a new city hall?"

1:51:20Because it's cheaper to build new than

1:51:23it is to renovate.

1:51:26The if if if if thing, I mean we're if

1:51:29if ifing and hoping that we don't come

1:51:31across any issues on a building that is

1:51:3440-some years old when doing renovations

1:51:37to it and having to do stuff uh with the

1:51:42the concrete that it on the foundation

1:51:44in order to drill in and put new uh

1:51:47drains in each one of these individual

1:51:50kennels that we're talking about

1:51:52potentially building.

1:51:54So, there there are a lot of other

1:51:56considerations.

1:51:57And again, I will say that we right now

1:52:00have an animal shelter that is working,

1:52:02that is doing what it's supposed to. We

1:52:04have services available uh to all of our

1:52:08our residents. We have a portable

1:52:10building that we're renting, that we're

1:52:12paying for so that surgical operations

1:52:15can continue. We're not losing anything

1:52:17at this point, but we can't go based on

1:52:20if and hope that this works out

1:52:21perfectly and we don't end up with

1:52:23another council back here talking about

1:52:25the same thing in 3 years.

1:52:29>> Mr. Brotem.

1:52:31>> Thank you.

1:52:32Um and so I stand also in the

1:52:34[clears throat] defensible financial

1:52:35situation. Again, not just for the

1:52:37selling purposes. And I guess part of I

1:52:39still maybe have some additional

1:52:40questions on that. I'm not sort of just

1:52:42a real estate appraisal, but a um

1:52:44a a condition assessment if that was

1:52:47done or not. But the renovation

1:52:48feasibility study has not been done and

1:52:50cost benefits analysis um has not been

1:52:53done and we need that information to be

1:52:54able to do that. An appraisal ultimately

1:52:56can help with that. So, I guess Mr.

1:52:57Zagers, my question before I can make a

1:52:59determination solidly is, have we

1:53:01completed an independent building

1:53:02condition assessment and renovation

1:53:04feasibility study uh to establish that

1:53:06this property can be economically

1:53:08converted um into a functioning animal

1:53:10shelter.

1:53:10>> No, we have not.

1:53:11>> And then why are we proceeding with

1:53:13architectural design before establishing

1:53:15the building's deficiencies

1:53:18and the [clears throat] scope necessary

1:53:19of

1:53:20necessary improvements

1:53:21to total the anticipated project cost?

1:53:24>> It was my understanding the direction

1:53:26was to provide a

1:53:28an option to remodel the existing

1:53:30building to take to kind of remediate

1:53:32the the mold issue and what we would

1:53:35take to make this building functional

1:53:37again.

1:53:39>> Yes, and I understand the council wanted

1:53:40options. I just I just want to caution

1:53:42us. I'm just going to go on the record.

1:53:43You know, we've got several projects

1:53:44that have been in in motion before.

1:53:46We've tossed dollar after dollar on

1:53:49projects without lining out a complete

1:53:51oversight or complete vision and

1:53:53understanding of the scope of this

1:53:55project.

1:53:56Um

1:53:58I appreciate all your feedback. Thank

1:53:59you.

1:54:00>> Councilman McKendrick.

1:54:08All right, there we go.

1:54:09>> [cough and clears throat]

1:54:10>> Um we

1:54:12we talked about the

1:54:13I just heard we talked about the

1:54:15estimate. Um when was this 3.1 million

1:54:19dollars estimate?

1:54:20>> through an email. I really just reached

1:54:21out to the architect this morning and

1:54:23asking him what would it take to build a

1:54:26brand new brand new shelter equivalent

1:54:29size in another location. And that was

1:54:32the rough estimate was just saying about

1:54:343 million dollars not including the the

1:54:36price of the land.

1:54:38>> Okay. So

1:54:42was there an estimate given before your

1:54:46email?

1:54:47>> No, not on not on a brand new shelter.

1:54:50>> saying that a new shelter would cost 3.

1:54:53What I think you said 3.1 million.

1:54:573 million.

1:54:58>> Yeah.

1:54:58>> And that was being said.

1:55:01>> It it was a rough dollars. We haven't

1:55:04formally looked at, you know, breaking

1:55:06it down, doing a very specific type of,

1:55:09you know, cost [clears throat] estimate,

1:55:11you know, using the quantities, using

1:55:12everything we did. It This was just a

1:55:14rough ballpark,

1:55:16you know, figure that they were given to

1:55:17us.

1:55:18>> And only reason I asked that is cuz

1:55:21Council Member Bass,

1:55:23um with the Copperas Cove, I believe you

1:55:26said 4.7 million.

1:55:29Um so,

1:55:31>> Yes.

1:55:33>> I'm I'm just thinking that technically

1:55:36right now,

1:55:38that's probably what it would cost. I I

1:55:41don't know how Copperas Cove

1:55:43facility is being built, um but for most

1:55:47of the things that that are being asked

1:55:50for and we're trying to accommodate with

1:55:53the new shelter, I believe we would be

1:55:55somewhere really around that ballpark

1:55:57figure, closer to that ballpark figure.

1:56:00>> It depends, like you just said, it

1:56:02depends on what facilities, what

1:56:03amenities, what size. There's a lot of,

1:56:06you know, we haven't really addressed

1:56:08that, I think. We were just looking at

1:56:09this is the building we have, this is

1:56:11the square footage we have, what would

1:56:12it cost to build a similar.

1:56:14I mean, it

1:56:16Prices always rise depending on how many

1:56:18more things you need.

1:56:19>> Okay, that's that's what I was really

1:56:21getting at, that that that 3. whatever

1:56:24million could easily get it to be

1:56:27anywhere between four and five real

1:56:30quick. Thank you.

1:56:32>> Council Member Kimball.

1:56:34>> Thank you. Can I Can someone restate the

1:56:37motion for me?

1:56:39>> Yes.

1:56:40Um

1:56:41Uh

1:56:42yeah, um City Attorney, could you

1:56:43restate the motion, please?

1:56:46>> The motion I have is to table this item

1:56:48until an an appraisal is done on the

1:56:50building.

1:56:51On the property.

1:56:53>> That being said, I I think that we've

1:56:55had some um

1:56:58some very good discussion on this item.

1:57:00Um

1:57:02this item was in motion before at least

1:57:05two of us came on council. Um it was

1:57:08dealt with previous councils.

1:57:10Um I've heard things like rough

1:57:12estimate,

1:57:13ballpark figures. I think uh council

1:57:16council member Brown brings up a good

1:57:18point and and Mayor Pro Tem that we

1:57:20probably need some solid information. I

1:57:22think before now

1:57:26because I think we wouldn't be doing our

1:57:27due diligence. I think I go back to our

1:57:28budget meet our budget uh discussions

1:57:31and and some of the items that we um

1:57:35that we committed to our constituents to

1:57:36make sure that we using

1:57:39uh constituents dollars in the best

1:57:40possible way that

1:57:43I agree that based on the discussion

1:57:45I've heard that I'm probably I'd like to

1:57:47see those hard numbers. I want to

1:57:50because we could be we could end up

1:57:52making a two about a two million dollar

1:57:54mistake here uh without without having

1:57:57uh detailed information. So, I think

1:57:59that we can probably make a a better a

1:58:02better decision having an appraisal in

1:58:04hand. That probably would make that

1:58:06would make me feel better about my vote.

1:58:08So,

1:58:09uh I'm in support of your motion, man.

1:58:11Thank you.

1:58:16>> Okay, if there's no other discussion, uh

1:58:21all in favor signify by

1:58:25yes.

1:58:26All opposed?

1:58:29No.

1:58:37Okay, the motion passed two

1:58:39three to

1:58:41two with council member Kendricks

1:58:44and council member Bass

1:58:46opposing.

1:58:49>> [clears throat]

1:58:50>> Okay.

1:58:51Thank you.

1:58:52>> Thank you, sir. Thank you. Thank you.

1:58:54Thank you.

1:58:58>> Public hearings.

1:59:01>> Yes, ma'am, Secretary.

1:59:03>> Public hearings, item number 17,

1:59:05PH-26-037.

1:59:09Hold a public hearing and consider an

1:59:11ordinance amending Killeen's Code of

1:59:13Ordinances, Chapter 31, Zoning, by

1:59:16amending Section 32-2,

1:59:19Definitions, amending Article 4,

1:59:21District Regulations, to add Division

1:59:2323, North Killeen Overlay District, and

1:59:26changing the zoning of approximately

1:59:281,842.179

1:59:32acres bounded by North Fort Hood Street

1:59:34on the west, Fort Hood United States

1:59:37Army Post on the north, North and South

1:59:40W.S. Young Drive on the east, and

1:59:42Hallmark Avenue, Trimmier Road, and

1:59:44Terrace Drive

1:59:46on the south, to add an overlay district

1:59:49to be known as the North Killeen Overlay

1:59:51District. The caption of the ordinance

1:59:53reads, "An ordinance amending Killeen

1:59:56Code of Ordinances, Chapter 31, Zoning,

1:59:59by amending an

2:00:01Section 31-2,

2:00:03Definitions, amending Article 4,

2:00:05District Regulations, to add Division

2:00:0723, North Killeen Overlay District, and

2:00:11changing the zoning of approximately

2:00:131,842.179

2:00:16acres bounded by North Fort Hood Street

2:00:18on the west, Fort Hood United States

2:00:20Army Post on the north, W.S. Young Drive

2:00:23on the east, and Hallmark Avenue,

2:00:25Trimmier Road, and Terrace Drive on the

2:00:27south, to add an overlay district to be

2:00:29known as the North Killeen Overlay

2:00:31District, providing a repealer clause,

2:00:35providing a severability clause,

2:00:37providing a for a savings clause,

2:00:39providing for publication and effective

2:00:41date."

2:00:42>> Hello, Ms. Meacham.

2:00:43>> Good evening, Mayor and Council.

2:00:45Uh

2:00:46this item is for consideration of the

2:00:48proposed North Clean Overlay District.

2:00:52Uh, on April 20 April 7th, 2026, Council

2:00:55provided a motion of direction directing

2:00:56staff to prepare an ordinance codifying

2:00:59the North Clean Revitalization Program

2:01:00and establishing an overlay district to

2:01:02allow tiny homes, tiny homes on wheels,

2:01:06and accessory dwelling units by right

2:01:08and limiting locally undesirable land

2:01:10uses.

2:01:12The North Clean Revitalization Program

2:01:14was established in 2015 to encourage new

2:01:16investment and redevelopment in the

2:01:18area.

2:01:19If approved, the proposed ordinance will

2:01:21establish an overlay zoning district to

2:01:23be known as the North Clean Overlay

2:01:25District. Uh, on your screen is a map of

2:01:28that proposed overlay. So, um,

2:01:31as you heard in the caption, this

2:01:33proposed overlay uh, is bounded on the

2:01:35north by Fort Hood, on the west by

2:01:38[music]

2:01:38Fort Hood Street, on the east by W.S.

2:01:41Young Drive, and on the south by

2:01:42Hallmark Terrace, and uh, a small

2:01:45portion of Trimmier Road.

2:01:47>> [snorts]

2:01:47>> If approved, the proposed ordinance will

2:01:50allow tiny homes, tiny homes on wheels,

2:01:53accessory dwelling units by right within

2:01:54the overlay, and will also prohibit new

2:01:57after-hours nightclubs, private gambling

2:01:59places, BYOB establishments, and outside

2:02:02sales of second-hand goods.

2:02:06Um, the ordinance provides a couple of

2:02:08definitions. Uh, the first is the

2:02:12uh, definition of tiny home shall mean

2:02:13any dwelling unit that has uh, that is

2:02:16400 square feet or less in floor space

2:02:18floor space excluding lofts and complies

2:02:21with the currently adopted version of

2:02:23the International Residential Code. Tiny

2:02:25homes on wheels are defined as meaning

2:02:28uh, any dwelling unit that is 400 square

2:02:29feet or less in floor space excluding

2:02:31lofts that is supported by wheels which

2:02:33are either integrated into the tiny home

2:02:35structure or are part of an independent

2:02:38trailer supporting the tiny home.

2:02:41Accessory dwelling units, otherwise

2:02:42known as ADUs, uh shall mean a secondary

2:02:45self-contained dwelling unit located on

2:02:47the same lot as a primary single family

2:02:49dwelling. An ADU may be attached to or

2:02:52detached from the primary dwelling unit.

2:02:54The accessory dwelling unit shall be

2:02:56subordinate to and support the primary

2:02:58dwelling unit. So, uh these are some

2:03:00examples of of each of those. On the

2:03:02left is a conventional tiny home, uh and

2:03:05on the right is a tiny home on wheels.

2:03:10The proposed ordinance allows tiny homes

2:03:11on a permanent foundation and ADUs on

2:03:14any lot

2:03:15zoned for residential use.

2:03:17Uh if approved, tiny homes on wheels

2:03:20would be permitted only on residential

2:03:22lots smaller than 3,600 sq ft.

2:03:26We've identified approximately 99

2:03:28uh residential lots within the proposed

2:03:30overlay that are less than 3,600 sq ft

2:03:32upon which a tiny home on wheels could

2:03:34be built. Uh so, this is a map of those

2:03:36lots.

2:03:40As proposed, tiny homes on wheels are

2:03:41permitted subject to um a couple of

2:03:44standards. First, they must be compliant

2:03:46with the International Residential Code,

2:03:48must be properly connected to city water

2:03:50and waste water, no composting toilets

2:03:52are permitted,

2:03:53they must be parked on a paved

2:03:55all-weather surface constructed in

2:03:56accordance with uh provisions in chapter

2:03:5928, and may not be parked on concrete

2:04:02blocks, pavers, or laid brick.

2:04:07They must be tied down or otherwise

2:04:09anchored to the ground using heavy-duty

2:04:10steel cables, metal straps, or other

2:04:12securing mechanism approved by the

2:04:13building official. And finally, they

2:04:15must be properly skirted or underpinned

2:04:17to screen the trailer chassis um

2:04:20and wheels in accordance with uh the

2:04:22provisions in

2:04:23uh chapter 17.

2:04:27As proposed, accessory dwelling units

2:04:29would be permitted uh subject to uh a

2:04:32couple of standards. The first is that

2:04:33only one ADU would be allowed per lot.

2:04:36Second, the lot must be a minimum of

2:04:386,000 square feet.

2:04:40The ADU could not be larger than 800

2:04:42square feet or more than 50% of the

2:04:44primary floor primary dwelling's gross

2:04:47floor area.

2:04:49Fourth, that it cannot exceed the height

2:04:52of the primary dwelling or 25 feet,

2:04:54whichever

2:04:55is less and must conform to the

2:04:57residential architectural standards in

2:04:59chapter 31.

2:05:01So, as far as setbacks go,

2:05:03we're proposing tiny homes and tiny

2:05:05homes on wheels

2:05:06would have a front setback a minimum

2:05:08front setback of 20 feet, side setback

2:05:11minimum of 5 feet, and rear of 10.

2:05:14And then ADUs

2:05:16would have a minimum of 5 foot behind

2:05:19the front wall plane of the primary

2:05:21dwelling as the setback. Side setback

2:05:24would be 5 feet and the rear would be 5

2:05:26feet of detached and 10 feet of attached

2:05:28to the primary dwelling unit. All of

2:05:30that is with the caveat that setbacks

2:05:32could be reduced by the executive

2:05:34director of doing so would advance the

2:05:36city's revitalization efforts, provided

2:05:38that the impervious cover will not

2:05:40exceed 70% of the total lot area. I do

2:05:44want to note that that that provision

2:05:46regarding exceptions to the setback

2:05:48requirements was a recommendation of the

2:05:49planning and zoning commission.

2:05:54And then with regard to the screening

2:05:56device requirements,

2:05:58as you know, chapter 31 has a a

2:05:59provision that requires a masonry

2:06:01screening device between new commercial

2:06:03and and residential property.

2:06:06As proposed, when such a screening

2:06:09device is required for commercial use,

2:06:11the executive director

2:06:12may authorize a privacy fence not less

2:06:14than 6 feet in height in lieu of a

2:06:16masonry screening device.

2:06:18Permitted materials would include

2:06:20plastic composite fencing, vinyl,

2:06:21rubber, and metal.

2:06:23Wood privacy fencing would not be

2:06:24permitted in lieu of

2:06:26the required screening device.

2:06:29And then with With to non-permissible

2:06:31uses and activities of approved, the

2:06:33proposed ordinance would prohibit uh

2:06:35four incompatible land uses within the

2:06:37proposed overlay district including

2:06:39after hours night clubs,

2:06:40private gambling places, BYOB

2:06:42establishments, and outside sales of

2:06:45second-hand goods.

2:06:47So, pre-existing and otherwise lawful

2:06:49businesses with a valid certificate of

2:06:50occupancy

2:06:52on the date of the adoption of this the

2:06:53proposed ordinance would be considered

2:06:55legal non-conforming in accordance with

2:06:57chapter 31.

2:06:58And

2:06:59we've identified approximately nine

2:07:01businesses that would become legal

2:07:03non-conforming under the proposed

2:07:04ordinance.

2:07:06This is a list of those businesses that

2:07:09we've identified.

2:07:11One's a private gambling establishment,

2:07:14a BYOB establishment, a number of event

2:07:16centers, and and one business with

2:07:19outside sales of second-hand goods. So,

2:07:21these would all be considered legal

2:07:22non-conforming.

2:07:24The proposed ordinance provides that

2:07:26city council by a 3/4 affirmative vote

2:07:29may grant a conditional use permit for a

2:07:32BYOB establishment within the proposed

2:07:34overlay.

2:07:36And uh

2:07:38lastly, the

2:07:39ordinance includes a provision regarding

2:07:42um

2:07:43buildings that are boarded up. So, the

2:07:45proposed ordinance provides that a

2:07:46building or structure within the overlay

2:07:48district may not be allowed to be

2:07:50boarded up for more than 90 days unless

2:07:52approved by the executive director.

2:07:55With that, staff finds that the proposed

2:07:58ordinance is consistent with a number of

2:08:00the objectives outlined in the

2:08:02comprehensive plan including

2:08:03diversifying housing mix including types

2:08:06and price points, improving the fiscal

2:08:08productivity of development, encouraging

2:08:09incremental evolution of neighborhoods,

2:08:12prioritizing infill and revitalization

2:08:14in North Killeen, and embracing the

2:08:16small incremental approach to adding

2:08:18residential units and small-scale

2:08:19commercial spaces.

2:08:22We notified We mailed notices um

2:08:26to property owners within and

2:08:27surrounding the proposed overlay

2:08:28district on August 26th.

2:08:31Notice of the public hearing on

2:08:32tonight's agenda was published in the

2:08:33Killeen Daily Herald on October 4th.

2:08:37We've mailed 3,662

2:08:40written notices to the owners of 4,264

2:08:44properties within and surrounding the

2:08:46proposed overlay district, including

2:08:482,718 to residential properties within

2:08:51the proposed overlay,

2:08:53649 to commercial properties within the

2:08:55proposed overlay, and 295 to properties

2:08:59within the 400-ft buffer.

2:09:01To date, we've received no written

2:09:03responses uh

2:09:05in favor or in opposition to the

2:09:06proposed ordinance.

2:09:08Planning and Zoning Commission on

2:09:09September 14th recommended approval

2:09:13uh by a vote of 6 to 0 with a couple of

2:09:15conditions. First,

2:09:17uh to

2:09:18to allow uh approval by the executive

2:09:20director for the reduced setbacks for

2:09:23tiny homes um

2:09:24that I mentioned earlier. Second, that

2:09:26the tiny homes on wheels must be tied

2:09:28down or anchored. So, we did include

2:09:30that change in the proposed ordinance.

2:09:32And third, that the minimum lot size for

2:09:35ADUs be changed from 7,500 sq ft to

2:09:376,000 sq ft. That change has also been

2:09:39incorporated.

2:09:40So, with that, staff is recommending um

2:09:43that City Council adopt the proposed

2:09:44North Killeen overlay district ordinance

2:09:47as presented. I'm happy to answer any

2:09:48questions.

2:09:49>> Councilmember Bass.

2:09:51>> [clears throat]

2:09:52>> Um

2:09:53is it true that uh within this proposed

2:09:56overlay district,

2:09:58there are some empty lots

2:10:00uh where homes used to be way back in

2:10:03the day?

2:10:04And now those lots

2:10:07are really too small

2:10:10to build a modern home on. Is that

2:10:12correct?

2:10:13>> That's right.

2:10:14>> And that is one motivation

2:10:17uh for us to consider the tiny home

2:10:21idea. Is that correct?

2:10:23>> Yes, sir. That's correct.

2:10:24>> And uh I've I've looked at the tiny

2:10:27homes. They're not really that tiny that

2:10:30under modern design.

2:10:32And the the material that they're made

2:10:35out of are very uh

2:10:37modern.

2:10:39Um my my second question is uh is it

2:10:42true

2:10:44that one of the hang-ups on getting a

2:10:47grocery store on the north side is uh

2:10:50we've heard we need more rooftops on the

2:10:54north side. Is that correct?

2:10:56>> Yes, sir. That's true.

2:10:57>> So, if we can get some

2:10:59tiny homes

2:11:01and accessory dwelling units built in

2:11:05this overlay district, that would add

2:11:08rooftops

2:11:10uh which would help our cause to get a

2:11:12grocery store in this area. Is that

2:11:15correct?

2:11:15>> Yes, sir.

2:11:16>> Thank you.

2:11:18>> Councilmember Kimble.

2:11:20Thank you, Mr. Mayor.

2:11:22Uh

2:11:23excellent work

2:11:25uh on you and your staff. You know, one

2:11:27of the things that we we asked

2:11:29particularly recently here is the the

2:11:32price of homes and and affordable

2:11:33housing. Uh I mean, it's I'm not saying

2:11:35it's a crisis, but um trying you know,

2:11:38if you are a

2:11:39working couple

2:11:41you know, making

2:11:43combined $60,000, it's it's hard to buy

2:11:47a home. Uh you know, a typical 1,800

2:11:50square foot home to I mean, it's it's

2:11:51it's hard. This is uh another option

2:11:54that presents itself for affordable

2:11:56housing on on the north side of town

2:11:58particularly and I commend you and your

2:12:00staff for looking into it and put

2:12:01together. Thank you. I did have some few

2:12:03questions, though.

2:12:05When uh tied down or anchored, what does

2:12:07that mean? Because that that could mean

2:12:10several different things to several

2:12:11different people of what that means. Um

2:12:14of course, I want to make sure it's

2:12:14storm rated. It could you know, is there

2:12:17is there a standard of what it how how

2:12:19it's tied down or anchored?

2:12:23>> I think ultimately it's going to to be

2:12:26at the discretion of the building

2:12:27official.

2:12:27>> Okay.

2:12:28>> Um to ensure that that

2:12:31having not

2:12:33had a lot of experience with this

2:12:35particular housing product, tiny homes

2:12:38on wheels,

2:12:39um I I think

2:12:41it's going to be something that we we

2:12:43figure out. Um but the the primary

2:12:46objective is to ensure that it's

2:12:48anchored to the ground and that it's

2:12:49that it's safe and that it doesn't pose

2:12:50a danger to life, health, safety.

2:12:53>> Yeah, I I would I would love to hear um

2:12:55I would like to hear what that means

2:12:57particularly to our emergency management

2:12:58people,

2:12:59uh our fire department, what that means

2:13:01because, you know, it has to be storm

2:13:03rated, I imagine, for you know, for for

2:13:06our for the Texas storms and things like

2:13:07that. So, um I'm sure they probably have

2:13:10some research with that. So, I would

2:13:11love to and I would like the hear what

2:13:14that means cuz tied down

2:13:17like to my my uncle

2:13:19he's going to tie it down the way he

2:13:20thinks he needs to tie it down.

2:13:23Uh and and the way that a builder would

2:13:25do it might mean another thing. So, uh

2:13:27uh yeah, I'm hitting

2:13:29uh the next thing is the lot lines. Um

2:13:33uh can you just clarify that with me

2:13:34because I hear a 5-ft setback off lot

2:13:38off off off lot because, you know, we

2:13:40want to look good, right?

2:13:41>> Mhm.

2:13:42>> You got setbacks, but sometimes

2:13:45you uh you know,

2:13:47the way Chuck Kimble thinks it looks too

2:13:49close to someone's property,

2:13:52um it may

2:13:53not be. I didn't know if we is it you

2:13:55know, you have your property line is

2:13:57there is the standard going to be has to

2:13:59be 5-ft off the off the property line?

2:14:01Is that what I what I heard?

2:14:03>> The proposed setbacks, the smallest

2:14:05proposed setback

2:14:06>> Depending on the 6,000 sq ft lot, right?

2:14:10>> So, are are we talking about tiny homes

2:14:12or tiny homes on wheels?

2:14:14>> I I guess both.

2:14:15>> to the setback slide.

2:14:18>> I guess yeah, the tiny home the the ADU

2:14:20the the tiny homes ADUs.

2:14:22I guess it won't really matter for it on

2:14:23wheels, but

2:14:25>> So, the side the proposed

2:14:27uh minimum side setback for both tiny

2:14:29homes and ADUs

2:14:31uh is 5 ft from the side property line

2:14:34uh with [clears throat]

2:14:36the flexibility that the executive

2:14:38director could in an extenuating

2:14:41circumstance

2:14:42reduce that

2:14:44um

2:14:45if if there's an overwhelming

2:14:48[clears throat] need to do so.

2:14:50Um

2:14:51I

2:14:52likely would not feel comfortable

2:14:54reducing the setback below 5 ft, so

2:14:56>> there's a then there's a you have to get

2:14:58the lot line, you have the 5 ft, then

2:14:59you have the distance between the main

2:15:00house.

2:15:02>> So, these are these are setbacks from

2:15:03the property line.

2:15:05Um so, the [clears throat] the ADUs must

2:15:08be set back 5 ft behind the front wall

2:15:11plane of the primary dwelling unit. Um

2:15:14and then

2:15:165 ft from the side property line. It

2:15:17doesn't specify

2:15:19uh how far from This ordinance doesn't

2:15:22specify how far from the primary

2:15:23building.

2:15:24Um but

2:15:26typically the fire code would would

2:15:28specify

2:15:29>> Okay, that was my next question. I think

2:15:30this is previous. And would the

2:15:33the tiny the ADU

2:15:35be on the corner? Because I

2:15:38from a

2:15:39aesthetics point of view

2:15:41I I you know, if you I'm I'm I'm

2:15:43thinking of my neighborhood. If the tiny

2:15:44home is on a corner

2:15:45I think I've seen some

2:15:48but they're

2:15:49they're

2:15:50when you turn a corner, it's not the

2:15:51first thing you see.

2:15:52>> Mhm.

2:15:52>> It's you see the main home, but not the

2:15:54tiny home. Is that But according to this

2:15:57ordinance, it could be the first thing

2:15:59you see when you It could be on the side

2:16:01on the corner side, not necessarily on

2:16:02the other side.

2:16:04So

2:16:05>> You're talking about a street a street

2:16:07corner. could be on the side.

2:16:08>> first thing you see.

2:16:10>> Essentially in the side yard.

2:16:11>> Yes.

2:16:12>> Yes.

2:16:13>> And not fenced.

2:16:15>> Yes.

2:16:16It could be.

2:16:17>> Could be.

2:16:18I don't know how I feel about that yet.

2:16:21I'll have to look at it.

2:16:23But thank you. That's great work.

2:16:25>> Councilman Broome.

2:16:30>> It does say though that instead of going

2:16:33to the BOA like any other variance would

2:16:36notwithstanding the above the director

2:16:39may at his or her sole discretion reduce

2:16:43the minimum setback requirements if

2:16:45doing so will advance the city's

2:16:46revitalization efforts. So, those are

2:16:49[clears throat]

2:16:50kind of the standard what we're saying,

2:16:52but you can reduce them at your sole

2:16:54discretion where the building director,

2:16:56whoever it is that gets appointed to be

2:16:58that one staff member who decides that.

2:17:00>> And again, I do want to make it clear

2:17:02that this was a change that was asked

2:17:04for by the planning and zoning

2:17:05commission and was recommended in their

2:17:06motion for approval.

2:17:08Um,

2:17:09I'm not necessarily advocating one way

2:17:10or another for that.

2:17:12>> But that's the way it's presented in the

2:17:14the ordinance that we have in front of

2:17:16us.

2:17:16>> Yes, ma'am.

2:17:16>> I have a few questions for Chief Fox if

2:17:19that's okay, Mayor.

2:17:22>> Yes, you may.

2:17:25Chief Fox, thank you, sir.

2:17:31Yes, ma'am.

2:17:31>> Good evening, Chief. Um,

2:17:34what does it mean for the fire

2:17:35department when we increase the density

2:17:37like this and we cut back those

2:17:39setbacks?

2:17:41>> Uh, with any structure they present

2:17:42unique challenges.

2:17:44>> [clears throat and cough]

2:17:45>> Uh,

2:17:45however, to mitigate those challenges,

2:17:48we could possibly bring in additional

2:17:50engine units, one, possibly two,

2:17:53>> [clears throat and cough]

2:17:53>> to handle covering those exposures.

2:17:56Um,

2:17:57it it's hard to say depending on

2:17:59what we are presented with at the time.

2:18:01You know, every fire is unique, every

2:18:02structure's unique, but we do have

2:18:04mitigating factors just like a if we

2:18:06have to mitigate mobile homes in a

2:18:08mobile home park, they're also

2:18:10to Mr. Kimball's direct question was

2:18:13as far as anchoring there, we have to

2:18:15deal with those as well. It's it's not

2:18:17impossible, but we just have to bring in

2:18:19more manpower.

2:18:20>> And but you make general response plans

2:18:23based on setbacks that are known to you

2:18:25and that helps you determine how fast a

2:18:28fire might spread between residences,

2:18:30correct?

2:18:31>> Correct. And that that determination is

2:18:33usually

2:18:34handled by the first arriving officer on

2:18:36scene. He'll give a what's called a 360

2:18:38size-up so that uh

2:18:40verbally discusses the the what he's

2:18:43presented with on scene and then

2:18:45determines if he's going to request

2:18:47additional units or not.

2:18:48>> Okay, thank you. I'm sure there'll be

2:18:50more questions for you in a moment, but

2:18:51I have a another question for Ms.

2:18:53Mescher.

2:19:00Ms. [snorts] Mescher, currently we do

2:19:02not allow manufactured homes to be put

2:19:06uh

2:19:07in a subdivision or community, correct?

2:19:10>> That's correct.

2:19:11>> Uh so, what's the difference between a

2:19:12manufactured home and a tiny home on

2:19:15wheels?

2:19:16Other than the size.

2:19:18>> A tiny home on wheels um

2:19:20is meets the the um international

2:19:24building code requirements or the

2:19:26international residential code

2:19:27requirements. Um

2:19:29>> But manufactured homes and mobile homes

2:19:32do not?

2:19:38>> They they they fall under the HUD code,

2:19:39thank you.

2:19:41Um

2:19:42the HUD code. So, no, they they're

2:19:45separate.

2:19:46>> So, they don't meet fire standards?

2:19:50>> I'm sorry. I The Are you asking if

2:19:53manufactured homes meet fire standards?

2:19:55They meet the the HUD requirements for

2:19:57fire [music] standards. Yes, ma'am.

2:19:59>> Okay. So, then what's the difference

2:20:00between tiny home on wheels and

2:20:02manufactured homes?

2:20:08>> Optically, um I

2:20:10not not a lot. This is something that

2:20:12the

2:20:13uh

2:20:14that the council directed staff to bring

2:20:16back to allow. Um

2:20:18so,

2:20:18>> The former council, right?

2:20:20>> Yep.

2:20:22>> And it was it was voted to come back to

2:20:23allow specifically because at the time

2:20:26there was supposed to be a tiny home

2:20:27village built for transitional housing,

2:20:30uh which is now going to be duplexes,

2:20:31right?

2:20:35>> They'll be two-unit dwellings, but um

2:20:38on a on a shared lot.

2:20:40>> Which is duplexes, right?

2:20:43Not tiny homes.

2:20:45So,

2:20:46uh

2:20:47and if we're going to allow ADUs in one

2:20:49part of of the city, then

2:20:51you know, I live on the south part of

2:20:53the city. What if I wanted an ADU, I'm

2:20:55not allowed to do

2:20:57That is the area where we should be

2:20:58worried about increasing density in

2:21:01order to make tax value increase to

2:21:04bring together the the cost of services

2:21:06to those areas, which was what that

2:21:08whole discussion was all about, which is

2:21:10what the 2040 plan talks about, correct?

2:21:13>> So, ADUs are allowed uh via conditional

2:21:15use permit in other parts of the city.

2:21:17So, there are a couple of places where

2:21:19someone has applied for a conditional

2:21:20use permit and and built an accessory

2:21:22dwelling.

2:21:22>> But this would allow it by right in the

2:21:24North College Overlay District.

2:21:25>> Yes, ma'am. Yes, ma'am.

2:21:26>> I would not have that right. I would

2:21:27have to go through the whole conditional

2:21:29use permit uh process, correct?

2:21:31>> Yes, ma'am.

2:21:32>> Okay. So, if it's good for one part of

2:21:34the city, I don't understand why it's

2:21:36not good for the entirety of the city.

2:21:38Uh the same with the the exemptions that

2:21:41we're making for businesses. Just last

2:21:43meeting we had a recommendation to

2:21:45approve a zoning to allow private

2:21:48gambling facility, but now we're just

2:21:50told that's not good for the North

2:21:52Colleen Overlay District. So, where what

2:21:55makes it good for one part of the city

2:21:56but not the rest of the city?

2:22:02>> You know, the the

2:22:04proposal overlay really was intended to

2:22:07um further the city's revitalization

2:22:08efforts in North Colleen um in

2:22:11accordance with recommendations outlined

2:22:12in the comprehensive plan.

2:22:14Uh and that's what we've we've attempted

2:22:15to do.

2:22:16>> I didn't see tiny homes in the comp

2:22:18plan.

2:22:19>> You you tell me the Council member

2:22:22Mayor Pro Tem.

2:22:23>> Thank you.

2:22:24>> [clears throat and cough]

2:22:25>> Um I just have a question. So, Council

2:22:27member um Campbell had mentioned about

2:22:29fencing. That is something that we could

2:22:30still add to this proposal uh the

2:22:32proposed amendment to that ordinance. Is

2:22:33that correct? At this point?

2:22:35>> Yes, ma'am. I mean, you can make

2:22:36>> Absolutely. If we just let Council so

2:22:38decides to have it.

2:22:39>> Council, okay, great. Thank you. Um you

2:22:41mentioned before that there were nine um

2:22:42businesses potentially affected um into

2:22:45being into a legal non-conforming

2:22:46status. Um so, what happens to those

2:22:49businesses if uh

2:22:51they change ownership or if there's

2:22:53anything have we gone over this with the

2:22:56potential clients to let them know uh

2:22:58what happens if they lose their status

2:23:00or what will cause them to lose their

2:23:01status?

2:23:02>> We sent notice to all all the commercial

2:23:05businesses within the proposed overlay

2:23:06district so they they all did receive

2:23:08notice.

2:23:09>> I understand. I just want to restate

2:23:10this for the Yes, ma'am. Thank you.

2:23:11>> Okay. They all did receive notice. Uh we

2:23:13had we had um

2:23:16a small handful that reached out and we

2:23:17did discuss what this means and and that

2:23:21their ability to continue operating

2:23:23their business does not change. So,

2:23:25they're considered legal non-conforming

2:23:26or grandfathered, meaning that they can

2:23:28continue doing exactly what they're

2:23:30doing.

2:23:31Um and then what would happen is if if

2:23:34the business changes hands as long as

2:23:35the use continues, the use the the legal

2:23:39non-conforming use of the land it

2:23:41is allowed to continue even through

2:23:43change in ownership. Um it's only if the

2:23:46use goes away, meaning that that the

2:23:49property owner or the the tenant for

2:23:51whatever reason closes their business or

2:23:53if it goes away for a period of a year

2:23:54or more,

2:23:55um, then it couldn't it couldn't come

2:23:57back.

2:23:57>> Yes, ma'am. Thank you for clearing that

2:23:58up because we've got some folks that had

2:24:00questioned that and just wanted some

2:24:01clarity, so thank you for that was a

2:24:03very good explanation there. Um,

2:24:04regarding the infrastructure

2:24:06deficiencies, have we mapped out or

2:24:08prioritized? I know there's there may or

2:24:10may not be any at this point, but I mean

2:24:11is that something that we look at as far

2:24:13as adding these facilities in that

2:24:15particular side of town? Have we taken

2:24:17up those and things into consideration?

2:24:18Have we mapped and prioritized them?

2:24:20>> That's probably a better question for

2:24:22Mr. Zagers. Um, I do know that the water

2:24:25and wastewater master plan does

2:24:26contemplate the fact that there are

2:24:27smaller lines in the north side of town,

2:24:29um, and and it addresses that, but he's

2:24:32probably the better person to answer

2:24:33that question.

2:24:36>> So, in regard to the water sewer, we do

2:24:38have our overall maps. Um, we haven't

2:24:41mapped out we typically do when the

2:24:42application comes in and we look at

2:24:44water and sewer availability when a

2:24:46developer comes in.

2:24:48Uh, we're constantly looking at what

2:24:50upgrades we need and that's part of our

2:24:52rehab program, uh, right now, which is

2:24:54really focused on the north end.

2:24:56>> Okay, thank you.

2:24:57>> Sure.

2:25:01>> Council member Brown.

2:25:07>> So, we've established we no longer allow

2:25:09new mobile home parks to be, uh, zoned

2:25:12and approved.

2:25:15Correct.

2:25:19>> New mobile home parks can always

2:25:20request, um, if if one is proposed in an

2:25:23area that's not zoned for mobile home

2:25:24park, um, theoretically an applicant

2:25:27could request to rezone their property

2:25:29to allow for mobile home park.

2:25:30>> We got rid of the zoning for mobile home

2:25:33parks, so it's not I didn't see it in

2:25:35chapter 31. We don't allow for the, um,

2:25:40building of communities of made

2:25:42manufactured homes. RMH is is still an

2:25:46active zoning district.

2:25:48>> I thought we got rid of that, but we are

2:25:50going to still

2:25:51>> we we did make inactive the zoning

2:25:53district that allows for modular

2:25:57homes.

2:25:59Um

2:25:59there was a specific zoning district

2:26:01that allowed for

2:26:03um

2:26:04>> [clears throat]

2:26:05>> modular construction. Uh state law

2:26:07specifies that modular construction

2:26:09modular homes are allowed anywhere

2:26:11that's zoned for residential, so we did

2:26:12make that district inactive.

2:26:22>> Uh

2:26:23RMP mobile home and travel trailer park

2:26:25district. No building or premises shall

2:26:29be used and no building shall be

2:26:30hereafter erected, reconstructed,

2:26:32altered, enlarged, or shall a

2:26:34certificate of occupancy be issued

2:26:36except for in the following situations.

2:26:40And and then it says essentially that

2:26:42they are already a conforming mobile

2:26:44home park. So while it's still in the

2:26:46ordinance, we are we essentially got rid

2:26:49of mobile home park zoning.

2:26:53>> I believe the the zoning district is

2:26:56RMH.

2:26:58>> RMP. We do not have an I'm looking at

2:27:00right now. We have an RMP and we have an

2:27:03RMS. We do not have an

2:27:05RMH.

2:27:06>> I don't know.

2:27:07>> There's an RM1 that's inactive.

2:27:11>> So even that is inactive.

2:27:13>> I'd have to look.

2:27:15I don't know.

2:27:16>> Okay, well I'm telling you that I'm I'm

2:27:17looking. You can believe me or you don't

2:27:19believe me. Our city attorney is

2:27:21looking. That there is no active zoning

2:27:24where we can do mobile home parks, where

2:27:26we can do manufactured homes.

2:27:28Um

2:27:29but we want to say we can do uh tiny

2:27:32home communities, which are basically a

2:27:35Hot Wheels version of a mobile home

2:27:37park.

2:27:38Um again, I'm going to go back to the

2:27:40the the points and questions. So, I'm

2:27:43going to ask

2:27:45Chief Fox to come back up again if I

2:27:46could, please.

2:27:49>> Yes, you may.

2:27:51You have 52 seconds.

2:27:54>> Chief Fox, you earlier mentioned that

2:27:56you have to take other precautions when

2:27:58you're fighting fires in a known mobile

2:28:00home park. Um when we have tiny homes

2:28:04that are

2:28:06uh or have smaller setbacks that are

2:28:09allowed to be even closer together,

2:28:11how does that then affect your

2:28:12department?

2:28:14>> Uh again, it's it's all handled in the

2:28:16size up and requesting additional

2:28:17personnel to come on scene

2:28:19specifically to protect those exposures.

2:28:22Um

2:28:22>> [clears throat]

2:28:23>> the closer

2:28:25structures are and heat radiation could

2:28:28pose an additional problem. That's why

2:28:29we have to request additional personnel

2:28:31to to uh specifically mitigate that that

2:28:33uh factor.

2:28:34>> Okay, thank you. I appreciate it.

2:28:37Um

2:28:39so, I'm I'm going to say that we we

2:28:41don't allow mobile homes, we don't allow

2:28:43manufactured homes. We won't allow tiny

2:28:46homes on wheels. I don't care if a tiny

2:28:48home is is constructed

2:28:51um

2:28:52out of sticks. We allow that anyway. Ms.

2:28:55Mescher, currently, what is the minimum

2:28:57size that a a single-family dwelling has

2:28:59to be?

2:29:00>> We don't have a minimum size for a

2:29:01single-family dwelling.

2:29:03>> So, without changing it, somebody could

2:29:05already build a tiny home.

2:29:07>> They could build a a site-built tiny

2:29:09home, yes, ma'am.

2:29:10>> They just couldn't do the tiny home on

2:29:11wheels. The other reason why they that

2:29:13tie-down was recommended was actually so

2:29:15that it would be considered real

2:29:16property instead of personal property.

2:29:19Can you explain that difference?

2:29:21>> Yes, ma'am. So, um the appraisal

2:29:23district assesses real property but not

2:29:27personal property for ad valorem tax

2:29:29purposes. So, by tying it down, it it is

2:29:32then taxed as real property.

2:29:34>> Okay.

2:29:35So, I'm going to go back to my my

2:29:37thing about the fact that we want to

2:29:39affordable housing, then manufactured

2:29:42housing is more affordable than having a

2:29:46house built. So, we should be allowing

2:29:48that. I think we're making exceptions if

2:29:51it one thing that we had wanted and it's

2:29:53in for one particular area and that's

2:29:56not fair to the city or to our

2:29:57departments.

2:30:04>> Council member Kimble.

2:30:08What did you say?

2:30:09Did you say Kimble?

2:30:10>> Yes.

2:30:11>> Oh, I'm sorry. I didn't hear you. Sorry.

2:30:11Thank you.

2:30:13Um

2:30:14>> [cough and clears throat]

2:30:15>> I'm not a

2:30:18planner or building [clears throat]

2:30:20official.

2:30:21So, what is an overlay district?

2:30:24>> Sure. So, uh an overlay district is

2:30:27um

2:30:28it it applies

2:30:30>> [clears throat]

2:30:30>> uh

2:30:31over a broad area and it it's it's an

2:30:34overlay that goes over [clears throat]

2:30:36the underlying zoning district, which is

2:30:38typically either residential or

2:30:40commercial and it um imposes different

2:30:44um considerations or criteria or

2:30:47parameters.

2:30:48>> when a when a municipality or governing

2:30:50body

2:30:51um forms a overlay district, it's

2:30:53generally for a specific purpose. In

2:30:55this case, revitalization.

2:30:57>> Yes, sir.

2:30:57>> If there was a need to do revitalization

2:31:00in the southern part of Killeen, then we

2:31:03would

2:31:04revitalize or have an overlay district

2:31:06if it was needed.

2:31:07>> Yes, sir.

2:31:07>> Um I just I I just want to make sure

2:31:10that for those who

2:31:11uh I'm I'm pretty basic at this. I like

2:31:13to get things in a very simple manner

2:31:15that we have made a commitment to

2:31:17revitalize the north part of town with

2:31:19the council and based on what the

2:31:21citizens have told us and we have put a

2:31:22lot of time, energy, and effort. We have

2:31:24some manufacturing going out on the

2:31:26north side of town. We got this housing

2:31:28development. We have a lot of things

2:31:29going on. This is just This adds to the

2:31:33com- the the comp plan. This adds to

2:31:36what the citizens have asked us to do.

2:31:38Uh hopefully, there'll be more rooftops

2:31:40for a potential grocery store. Again, I

2:31:43thank you for for coming up with this

2:31:45based on our previous council's uh need

2:31:48to have an overlay district to have more

2:31:51affordable housing. Uh wherever you can

2:31:53find affordable housing was on the north

2:31:55side of town and the south side of town,

2:31:56but particularly in a town that has been

2:31:58as we have uh talked about earlier,

2:32:00maybe somewhat neglected. Uh definitely

2:32:03distressed. Um I think that having the

2:32:05overlay district to bring affordable

2:32:08housing uh to that side of town is a

2:32:10good a good thing, and I look forward to

2:32:12the ordinances being tightened up a

2:32:14little bit so we we get a little clarity

2:32:16on on on what the tie down is and and

2:32:18maybe some fencing, stuff like that. So,

2:32:21I just want to make sure we

2:32:22just for those who are listening so that

2:32:24if they don't know what an overlay

2:32:25district was, that we can we can uh

2:32:26explain that a little better. Thank you.

2:32:28>> Council member Kendricks.

2:32:32>> Uh

2:32:33>> [clears throat]

2:32:34>> um Mr. Mayor, can I bring Chief Fox up?

2:32:37>> Yes, you sir. You may.

2:32:38Yes, sir.

2:32:42>> Uh how you doing, sir? I found it very

2:32:44interesting um we started talking about

2:32:47fires and how that would

2:32:49um

2:32:50um affect how the first on scene would

2:32:54would do this. Now, we just the last

2:32:57meeting, we approved those drones. Would

2:32:59that also be used in assessing the

2:33:02situation?

2:33:04>> Absolutely. Yeah.

2:33:05>> And having those drones, it it it

2:33:09betters everybody's knowledge of what's

2:33:11going on, the thermal where fire is more

2:33:14hot at

2:33:16and everything with with that.

2:33:18>> Yes, absolutely.

2:33:19>> It would help greatly enhance that than

2:33:23what we had in the past.

2:33:25>> Correct. Yeah, any information that we

2:33:26can gather prior to arriving on scene is

2:33:29is huge.

2:33:30>> Okay.

2:33:31>> That That was

2:33:32>> Thank you, sir, for that. Now, Ms.

2:33:34Meshner,

2:33:38um

2:33:42I I I

2:33:43And it's not a I'm I'm you know, I don't

2:33:45believe in the I got yous. Um is it any

2:33:48way where we can add

2:33:50into this um or is it already

2:33:52incorporated

2:33:54um into this with um the tiny homes

2:33:57where they have to be registered so we

2:33:59know where they are in the city?

2:34:03>> So, the the tiny homes on wheels in

2:34:05order to be allowed again must be tied

2:34:07down, permanently anchored to the ground

2:34:10uh such that they meet all of the

2:34:12applicable requirements and are

2:34:14considered real property for the purpose

2:34:16of the appraisal district. Um so, in

2:34:19that sense and they must be skirted. So,

2:34:21in that sense they're not

2:34:23particularly mobile.

2:34:25Um this isn't something that would, you

2:34:27know,

2:34:29be coming and going on a daily basis uh

2:34:31like an RV or something like that.

2:34:33>> But when we look it up as as real

2:34:35property, would it be identified as

2:34:38such?

2:34:39>> Yes.

2:34:40>> Oh,

2:34:41perfect perfect.

2:34:42Um

2:34:43>> That's the intent of of the the tie down

2:34:46requirement.

2:34:47>> Yes, ma'am.

2:34:48Um

2:34:51I I just say um I'm I'm looking forward

2:34:54to it and um Councilmember member

2:34:56Kimbell said it um perfect. We're we're

2:34:59trying to do everything uh for the north

2:35:01to try to get the the things that the

2:35:03north is asking for and and I think this

2:35:07is is going to help.

2:35:09Um we talk about mobile homes. This is a

2:35:12I ain't going to say total upgrade

2:35:14because I know mobile homes, but um most

2:35:17mobile homes cannot fit in most of these

2:35:20spots on the north side of town.

2:35:23Am I correct?

2:35:25>> Off the top of my head, I don't know how

2:35:26big a conventional mobile home is. Um

2:35:29but these are these are

2:35:31likely smaller than that.

2:35:33>> Check.

2:35:34So, it's it's kind of like when

2:35:37I grew up, we kind of had we had the bag

2:35:40phone. Now, we got the iPhone. So, we

2:35:42got upgrades now. So, thank you.

2:35:46>> Mayor Pro Tem Um excuse me, uh

2:35:49City Attorney, did you want to jump in

2:35:51yet?

2:35:52>> Um yes, I just wanted to there were a

2:35:54couple things I wanted

2:35:55Couple things I wanted to clarify. There

2:35:57was a question earlier about um what tie

2:36:00down meant. And I just wanted to read

2:36:02from the proposed ordinance. It does

2:36:04give more clarification on that. Um tie

2:36:06down or otherwise anchored to the ground

2:36:08using heavy-duty steel cables, metal

2:36:10straps, and other securing mechanism

2:36:12approved by the building official. So, I

2:36:13know um Ms. Meacham did reference

2:36:15approved approved by the city, but I

2:36:17just wanted to mention that there's

2:36:19there's um a little bit more description

2:36:21in the ordinance itself. And so, I

2:36:23thought that might be helpful to

2:36:24clarify. And then also, I wanted to

2:36:26state um

2:36:27uh we've probably moved on, but I what I

2:36:30was saying earlier is I was just

2:36:32clarifying that RM-1 is the inactive

2:36:33district, but RMP

2:36:36uh is an active district for mobile home

2:36:39and travel trailer park district. And

2:36:40RMS is the manufactured housing is an

2:36:43active district as well.

2:36:45Thank you.

2:36:46>> Thank you, uh Mayor Pro Tem.

2:36:50>> Thank you.

2:36:51>> [clears throat]

2:36:51>> Um so, I agree this is going to help

2:36:54with revitalization efforts. It's in

2:36:56line with what we've asked for, you

2:36:57know, previously. The only um

2:36:59question I have and something I would

2:37:01like to just recommend is that we

2:37:02establish regional reasonable standards

2:37:04um similar to what we already have for

2:37:06the front-facing um fences. I do think

2:37:09that's important for the development,

2:37:11not to be so restrictive, but that we do

2:37:13have a plan, you know, consistent maybe

2:37:15with what we already have as it relates

2:37:17to that. Um

2:37:19Yes, ma'am.

2:37:19>> When you say front-facing fences,

2:37:21um

2:37:22you're talking about front yard fences?

2:37:24>> I think that's what he was referring to,

2:37:25the corners and the the the front uh

2:37:29>> It maybe I'm Councilman Kimball was

2:37:30referring to is ADUs in in a side yard.

2:37:33>> Can I get clarity from Kimball, please,

2:37:35on the statement he made?

2:37:35>> Yes, you may.

2:37:37>> Mr. Kimball.

2:37:39>> I I think you were um Mayor Pro Tem,

2:37:40[snorts] I think you were I think we're

2:37:42thinking the same thing. The It might be

2:37:43a little

2:37:45a little technical. I was really

2:37:46concerned about if the ADUs were on the

2:37:50side, that particularly on the corner on

2:37:52the on the ends.

2:37:54Visually, that

2:37:57at least in my opinion,

2:37:58that that might not look right. But, if

2:38:01it if they were allowed, then I would

2:38:03like to make sure that they're fenced

2:38:04properly. I guess that's what I was

2:38:05trying to

2:38:06>> So, standard for most

2:38:07>> So, it might be a standard for

2:38:09>> Is that considered street Would that be

2:38:10considered street-facing or uh side

2:38:12>> be It would be considered a a side yard.

2:38:15>> Side yard fencing or

2:38:16>> On side yard on a corner lot, um

2:38:18>> [clears throat]

2:38:19>> but conceivably we can add that

2:38:21condition to the uh conditions outlined

2:38:24for ADUs.

2:38:27>> And I wouldn't want to make it so

2:38:28restrictive again that it wouldn't be

2:38:29feasible, but just that we have that

2:38:31provision in there for the aesthetics

2:38:33for the for the area. Thank you.

2:38:35>> Yes, ma'am.

2:38:38>> Okay. All right, we can

2:38:40move on. If there's no other questions,

2:38:42I'm going to um

2:38:43open up the public hearing.

2:38:47>> Yes, Mayor.

2:38:48>> Public hearing is now open. City

2:38:51Secretary.

2:38:52>> There's one speaker for the public

2:38:53hearing.

2:38:55Michael Fornino.

2:39:01>> [snorts]

2:39:14>> Tiny homes, big tax farming. That's all

2:39:16I'm saying. Usual suspects, those in the

2:39:18real estate game, are the only ones that

2:39:20really going to make out on this. All

2:39:21right, I'm listening to this. I'm trying

2:39:23to look up stuff at the same time. All

2:39:25right. Tie downs, what are the specs on

2:39:27the tie downs going to be? Do we have

2:39:28anything defined? Is it going to be

2:39:29steel cable?

2:39:31Wire rope? Do you even know the

2:39:32difference between the two? I do.

2:39:35Wait.

2:39:36Anchor points and all that subject to

2:39:37determination of the inspector.

2:39:39It sounds like whatever mood the

2:39:40inspector's in. And then we're talking

2:39:42about the aesthetics. So once again, on

2:39:44one hand, you can do what you want with

2:39:46your property, but as long as it meets

2:39:48our

2:39:49aesthetic

2:39:51sensibilities, that that just doesn't

2:39:52add up. Time and time again, we go right

2:39:54back to the architectural standards.

2:39:56Similar. Oh, you can have your garage

2:39:58here, but not there. Or

2:40:00we're dictating how people were to build

2:40:03their own environments.

2:40:05Tiny home, do we have a spec on what's

2:40:07actual livable space?

2:40:08Based on the size of home, how many

2:40:10people can live there?

2:40:11What's the CEO going to say on that?

2:40:14What about potable water supply?

2:40:15Sanitary discharge of black and gray

2:40:18water. Presuming that these tiny homes

2:40:20will have a toilet and at least one

2:40:22sink, water's got to come in, water's

2:40:24got to come out.

2:40:26I mean, we just got people with buckets

2:40:28doing uh

2:40:29Cousin Eddie from Christmas Vacation

2:40:31going to the sewer?

2:40:33I mean, there's just too many things

2:40:35that are not being looked at here.

2:40:37And all this for revitalizing downtown?

2:40:40Let it die. Okay? This is what, our

2:40:43fourth, fifth coat of paint on this

2:40:44revitalization of downtown?

2:40:47Let it die.

2:40:48We're trying to artificially manipulate

2:40:50the market on downtown.

2:40:52Okay? There was a big event on on

2:40:55Saturday

2:40:56down town.

2:40:57And oddly, there was plenty of parking

2:41:01down there. And all of these businesses

2:41:02that keep coming up here, "Oh, I'm a

2:41:04successful business owner."

2:41:06Plenty of parking out in front of a

2:41:07certain business. I'm not going to

2:41:08mention by name. I think you all know

2:41:10which one I mean.

2:41:12So, I mean

2:41:13why are we trying to manipulate where

2:41:15downtown or the center of activity is

2:41:17supposed to be happening? Let the market

2:41:19determine that.

2:41:21What about people with a Winnebago or

2:41:23any other RV? They could put a skirt

2:41:25around that. I mean, there's

2:41:27there's too many details and as per

2:41:29usual, while I'm hearing is, "Oh, we'll

2:41:32figure that out later." I mean, I trust

2:41:34the fire department to assess whatever

2:41:36situation they're presented, but it's

2:41:39all the things on the front end and all

2:41:40the little details on the back end that

2:41:42have not been considered.

2:41:44We won't have trailer parks.

2:41:47But then, we're going to say

2:41:50these aren't actually trailers. They're

2:41:53just on a smaller scale. I mean, we're

2:41:54just creating one larger trailer park on

2:41:56several different lots all because they

2:41:59seem stylish and invoke.

2:42:02I mean,

2:42:02there's just

2:42:05too much rainbow dust and unicorn milk

2:42:07all over this one. I mean, there's

2:42:09there's not real considerations as to

2:42:13how this is going to work or even if

2:42:15would or even if it should work.

2:42:17And as the councilwoman said, why where

2:42:20are we benefiting just one

2:42:23area of this town?

2:42:25Well, why not open it up to all the

2:42:28residents? There's certainly larger

2:42:29properties in other parts of the town.

2:42:32So, I mean, we're we're we're we're

2:42:34creating an inequality on this.

2:42:36I mean,

2:42:36>> [snorts]

2:42:37>> financially and all that, there's just

2:42:40too many ways I see to poke holes

2:42:41through all this

2:42:43and exploit the system.

2:42:46>> Madam Secretary?

2:42:47>> I beg your pardon, Mayor. We do have a

2:42:50second speaker. Um Heather McMillan.

2:43:01>> Good evening, Council. It's nice to be

2:43:03here in person and not on Zoom for once.

2:43:06Um to start, this is a very large

2:43:09ordinance with three different scenarios

2:43:11under one item. It really should be

2:43:13treated as such, three ordinances, not

2:43:17one.

2:43:18And I have mixed feelings about the

2:43:19ordinance chains of ADU by right because

2:43:23when I purchased my property in the

2:43:25overlay district, I envisioned adding a

2:43:27second dwelling for my mother or child

2:43:30to be able to convert my garage that is

2:43:33already set up with electricity, water,

2:43:35and plumbing. This would allow us to

2:43:37have generations living together, but

2:43:40all being able to have our own space.

2:43:43But after residing in that area, I have

2:43:45found it's not that simple and it would

2:43:47be doing so much harm to my neighbors.

2:43:51The overlay district services are not

2:43:53set up to the standards for the current

2:43:55homes, let alone adding more dwellings

2:43:57to the already aging infrastructure.

2:44:00>> [snorts]

2:44:00>> For example, the city sewer service

2:44:02lines are old and cannot take on what is

2:44:05currently there.

2:44:07>> [snorts]

2:44:07>> Tenants are told by their landlords not

2:44:10to flush toilet paper, otherwise sewage

2:44:12fills their bathtubs.

2:44:13>> [snorts]

2:44:14>> If someone has a clogged toilet, four

2:44:15dollars down and fixes it, within weeks,

2:44:18days later, someone else on the same

2:44:21side of the street will have a rinse and

2:44:23repeat cycle and their toilets will be

2:44:25overflowing.

2:44:27This is all because of the city service

2:44:29lines cannot hold what is being put in

2:44:32it.

2:44:33This has been told to me specifically by

2:44:36your former public works director.

2:44:38I have seen raw sewage spill into yards

2:44:41across the yard from across the street

2:44:43from me from

2:44:45and it was stated that it's partially

2:44:46because someone added an ADU

2:44:50they had added on to their house, and

2:44:53they extended a second bathroom. The all

2:44:56of the service lines crossed in a T into

2:44:59those back lines, and they were not

2:45:00built for today's standards.

2:45:03Another alarming issue is there's 1,300

2:45:06homes still with galvanized lines in

2:45:08North Cullman. With those homes making

2:45:11the water unsafe to even drink or cook

2:45:14with because if you boil water from

2:45:16galvanized line, it activates the metal.

2:45:19Think lead-filled macaroni and cheese.

2:45:24Now, per your third-party letter that

2:45:26gets sent out, any building near

2:45:28galvanized lines can disrupt that

2:45:30sediment making the water even more

2:45:32harmful. So, if I was to start building

2:45:35an ADU, I would be putting everyone on

2:45:38my street in harm's way.

2:45:41So, if this ordinance is approved, it

2:45:44would be causing damage to all my

2:45:46neighbors. The sewage lines, the

2:45:49drainage, and the drinking water. As

2:45:52much as I think it'd be great having my

2:45:54family have generational homes, I don't

2:45:57want to hurt my neighbors.

2:46:00This would be great for additional tax

2:46:02and revenue for the city, but it

2:46:04shouldn't be at the cost of the health.

2:46:07May I have 1 more minute?

2:46:09>> Councilor?

2:46:12Show me your hands.

2:46:16Seat four.

2:46:18>> Mr. Bass said yes as well.

2:46:20>> It's one, two.

2:46:23>> You only have three.

2:46:25You are the tiebreaker.

2:46:26>> Thank you, sir.

2:46:28So, I ask you if we approve this

2:46:30ordinance, it should not be by right, it

2:46:33should be by case by case after those

2:46:36situations have been fixed, after we

2:46:39have put in the proper infrastructure.

2:46:41We do that when new subdivisions come

2:46:43in, we make sure the infrastructure is

2:46:45in place. We should be doing the same

2:46:48for the north

2:46:49the north end.

2:46:51I also do want to point out that I did

2:46:53speak up in opposition of this at P&Z,

2:46:56but it was not on that presentation.

2:46:59And so I want to say to this, one of you

2:47:01said you're giving North Killeen what

2:47:02they want. We want clean water. We want

2:47:05to be able to flush toilet paper, and we

2:47:08want to have proper streetlights. That's

2:47:11what we're asking for. We're not asking

2:47:12for tiny homes. We're not asking for

2:47:15trailers. We're asking for basic human

2:47:18rights, water, sewage, and streetlights.

2:47:22Thank you.

2:47:27>> Hey, Madam City Secretary.

2:47:30>> No more speakers.

2:47:31>> Okay.

2:47:33Public hearing is closed. Council, I

2:47:36need a motion to consider the request

2:47:39Council Member Bass.

2:47:41>> Mayor, I make a motion that City Council

2:47:44adopt the proposed North Killeen Zoning

2:47:47Overlay District Ordinance as presented.

2:47:53>> Okay.

2:47:54Uh Council Member Kendrick.

2:47:55>> I second that motion.

2:47:57>> Okay. Is there

2:47:58second?

2:47:59Um any discussion? Council Member Brown.

2:48:04>> Um

2:48:06I have a couple more questions before I

2:48:07can make a an informed vote on this.

2:48:11So, um

2:48:14event centers that don't have a TABC

2:48:18license would be considered BYOB,

2:48:21therefore would become legal

2:48:22non-conforming, but we wouldn't be

2:48:23allowed to have any new event centers in

2:48:26that North Killeen Overlay District.

2:48:28That won't allow their participants to

2:48:31come in and

2:48:33uh bring in their own alcohol.

2:48:35But then it says that they could get a

2:48:37conditional use permit by a

2:48:38supermajority vote of the council.

2:48:41Um what other CUP do we require a

2:48:43supermajority vote?

2:48:45>> Towers.

2:48:46Um,

2:48:47communication towers, cell phone towers

2:48:48require a three uh, supermajority vote.

2:48:53>> But not as a CUP for even a BZ-1 usage.

2:48:57>> BZ-1 does not.

2:48:58>> Okay.

2:48:59>> [snorts]

2:48:59>> Um,

2:49:00how long can buildings be boarded up

2:49:02outside of the proposed North College

2:49:04Overlay District?

2:49:07>> Outside of the North College Overlay

2:49:09District, there is no time limit. So, if

2:49:11a building is not

2:49:13dangerous, um, meaning that it's in in a

2:49:17state of structural instability and in

2:49:18danger of collapsing, a building can

2:49:21theoretically stay boarded up for uh,

2:49:23any length of time.

2:49:26>> So, even if it's not dangerous, then it

2:49:28would still have that 90-day countdown

2:49:30in North College Overlay District?

2:49:33>> Within the district, yes, as per as

2:49:35proposed.

2:49:36>> There's multiple places in here where it

2:49:39says, "Look, notwithstanding what the

2:49:41actual rules are, the director may at

2:49:44their own uh, sole discretion." Let me

2:49:47Let me make sure I emphasize that the

2:49:49director at their sole discretion can

2:49:52authorize a variance for that. They can

2:49:54authorize it to be changed, correct?

2:49:57>> Yes.

2:49:58>> Okay. Every other variance is supposed

2:50:00to go through BOA?

2:50:03>> And I will say that the the existing

2:50:05North College Revitalization Program as

2:50:08it's currently in place does allow that

2:50:12uh, flexibility for staff to uh, provide

2:50:15leeway for things like um,

2:50:18off off-street parking requirements. Uh,

2:50:21that was something that the council

2:50:22adopted um, a couple of years ago to

2:50:25allow flexibility

2:50:26uh, for

2:50:28property owners to uh, make use of their

2:50:30property without having to to address

2:50:33cumbersome off-street parking

2:50:34requirements. So, that flexibility is is

2:50:37already um built into the existing

2:50:39ordinance.

2:50:39>> glad you brought that up because we have

2:50:41a lot of properties in that North

2:50:43College Overlay District that don't have

2:50:46off-street parking, that homes that they

2:50:49don't have driveways, don't have parking

2:50:51lots because in the '50s they weren't

2:50:52built with them, right?

2:50:54>> Mhm.

2:50:55>> So, now we're going to require that they

2:50:56have to have a paved parking area going

2:50:59to an ADU.

2:51:00>> No.

2:51:01>> That

2:51:02is what I saw in the ordinance, I

2:51:03thought.

2:51:09>> Tiny homes, tiny homes have to have a an

2:51:12off-street parking space, but not

2:51:14accessory dwelling units.

2:51:15>> So, what if they're in one of those

2:51:17areas where they it just

2:51:19doesn't work?

2:51:21You can then say you don't have to

2:51:24have off-street parking?

2:51:29>> Theoretically, yes, as as proposed. And

2:51:31again, I want to I want to stress the

2:51:32fact that this was something that the

2:51:34Planning and Zoning Commission requested

2:51:36be in here. This is not something that

2:51:37I'm advocating for

2:51:38uh to have that that flexibility. That's

2:51:40something that um was requested by the

2:51:43Planning and Zoning Commission.

2:51:44>> And typically [clears throat] you leave

2:51:45that part out and you just put it in the

2:51:46presentation and say you can adopt that

2:51:48if you want to, that these are their

2:51:50separate recommendations, but okay.

2:51:53I'm I'm still opposed to this. I think

2:51:54that if it's good for one area, it's

2:51:56good for the whole city, and if it's not

2:51:58good for the one area, then it's not

2:51:59good for the whole city.

2:52:01Um we want to bring economic development

2:52:04to the whole city, not just North

2:52:05College, and we do not have the current

2:52:08infrastructure to support so many more

2:52:10houses, ADUs, small tiny homes, tiny

2:52:13home communities in that North College

2:52:16Overlay District, and until we

2:52:17>> Your time is up, ma'am.

2:52:18>> infrastructure, we shouldn't do it.

2:52:23>> Okay. If there is no more dis-

2:52:26Councilmember Kimble.

2:52:28>> Thank you.

2:52:29>> Thank you, Mr. Mayor.

2:52:31Mr. Mayor, when when a house is built or

2:52:33an apartment complex is built,

2:52:36I'm sure staff

2:52:39I'm sure staff goes out and does an

2:52:41assessment on what the system can handle

2:52:45as far as water, sewage, and things like

2:52:48that, right? I mean, there's there has

2:52:49to be some I mean, or at least you know

2:52:50the capacity of the of the system that

2:52:52you have currently, right?

2:52:53>> So, typically the

2:52:55the water and sewer availability is

2:52:57assessed at the platting phase.

2:52:58Typically, um an [clears throat]

2:53:01existing infill lot is already platted,

2:53:04um and and therefore

2:53:08would take access from whatever

2:53:09>> on the the plots

2:53:12But, based on the plots that that

2:53:13currently exist

2:53:14>> Mhm.

2:53:15>> and the sewage hook the the the water

2:53:17and sewage hooked up to them, you you

2:53:19have an estimate or or if you get plans

2:53:22to build a a a 200

2:53:24200 uh unit apartment complex, there's

2:53:27an assessment done on on what

2:53:30>> Correct. Yes, absolutely. For 200 200

2:53:32unit really any any new development

2:53:36would be inspected to ensure adequacy of

2:53:39>> if I have a lot

2:53:41in North Carolina and I I build a unit

2:53:43on it and I hook up to the system, I

2:53:45mean, I don't I'm not I'm not putting

2:53:46that much strain on it and whether I do

2:53:49it at one time or 40 of my neighbors do

2:53:52it at the same time, there's an

2:53:54assessment done on whether it can the

2:53:55system can handle it or not.

2:53:58>> Yes, sir. So, the uh Christina Ramirez,

2:54:01uh public works director. So, at this

2:54:03time, we currently do do assessments in

2:54:06regards to connections because there are

2:54:08requirements by the state in regards to

2:54:11how many houses or connections can be on

2:54:14a certain size line. We also look at it

2:54:17in regards to our water rights to make

2:54:19sure that we still have enough to cover

2:54:21the number of connections that we're

2:54:22connecting to our system. So, when a

2:54:24permit does come through, it does get

2:54:27reviewed by water and sewer and

2:54:28engineering to conduct those particular

2:54:31assessments.

2:54:32>> Thus, that's why people get permits. So,

2:54:33you know what they are building. Now,

2:54:35people don't get permits, then you take

2:54:37the appropriate action to shut it down

2:54:39or make them get a permit, or whatever

2:54:40the case may be.

2:54:41>> Yes, sir.

2:54:42>> Thank you.

2:54:44Council member Brown.

2:54:49>> I was just going to

2:54:50kind of pick up where I left off and

2:54:54Councilman Kimball kind of made me think

2:54:56about

2:54:57something else when Mr. Ramirez came up

2:55:00because when we start adding the ADUs or

2:55:02we start doing tiny home communities,

2:55:04which means that they can do smaller

2:55:06much smaller lots on R1

2:55:09style rules, but with the smaller

2:55:11setbacks allowing for more density to be

2:55:13there, which is the whole purpose.

2:55:15That's not only affecting our fire

2:55:17department. We talked about that is

2:55:19increasing the the density, the number

2:55:22of housing that's going to increase

2:55:24calls to our police department. Um, but

2:55:27then we've got the water lines, the

2:55:29sewer lines, the extra strain on those.

2:55:31And in my understanding, Mr. Ramirez,

2:55:34most of those lines are have not been

2:55:38replaced or upgraded even as growth has

2:55:41continued in that area.

2:55:45>> Thank you, Council Council member Brown

2:55:47for that question. So, in our latest

2:55:50edition of our master plan for water and

2:55:53sewer, we did account for a number of

2:55:55infill lots to be developed on the north

2:55:57side. In particular, it was around 1,400

2:56:01was included in that particular study.

2:56:03With that study came upgrades to our

2:56:05water and wastewater lines on the north

2:56:07side primarily.

2:56:09Even this year, we have funded to redo

2:56:12some of the water lines in this specific

2:56:14area to go from 2-in up to 6-in. So, it

2:56:17is something that was partially taken

2:56:19into consideration.

2:56:20>> And that 2-in 2-in to 6-in, that is

2:56:22accommodating what's currently there,

2:56:24right?

2:56:25>> Not just what's currently there. So,

2:56:27right now on a 2-in line you can get

2:56:29about 10 houses. And so, with those

2:56:32infill lots and those additional lots

2:56:34that haven't been developed yet, by

2:56:36increasing to a six you increase that

2:56:38capacity tremendously to be able to

2:56:41connect lines as well as to improve

2:56:43their water quality.

2:56:44>> So, we need those improvements in order

2:56:46to accommodate the growth that we've

2:56:48already had and the potential growth

2:56:50that could come from this. Then we have

2:56:52the solid waste fiasco of having

2:56:55off-street park or on-street parking

2:56:58with the the and I know solid waste was

2:57:00moved out of your department. So,

2:57:02but I don't see Mr. Bedley. I know you

2:57:04kind of were familiar with it under your

2:57:06last experience with clean and inner

2:57:09harbor heights.

2:57:10So, I'm going to just kind of throw that

2:57:11out there because we have rules and

2:57:13regulations for how far apart or how far

2:57:16away from vehicles the trash cans need

2:57:19to be in order to be safely collected,

2:57:21correct?

2:57:23>> So, there are setback requirements to

2:57:24avoid damage in regards to that. Now,

2:57:28once an ADU or a tiny home is assigned

2:57:31to the property, we'll have to look at

2:57:33that from a solid waste perspective

2:57:35to see if that is all going to be

2:57:37considered one lot because it'll all be

2:57:40one property. And so, is it one can or

2:57:42is it multiple cans just like any other

2:57:45resident who can request and pay for

2:57:46multiple cans.

2:57:48There we would have to look at that on a

2:57:50case-by-case basis.

2:57:52>> And

2:57:53we'd also have to determine if it's one

2:57:54water bill or if it's multiple

2:57:56>> member Brown.

2:57:57I'm the acting city secretary. Will you

2:57:59please

2:58:00stop the clock, please?

2:58:02You can continue.

2:58:03>> If it's one water bill or multiple water

2:58:05bills,

2:58:06that would be there because I know

2:58:07originally there was a provision in this

2:58:09that said

2:58:10that either [snorts] the ADU or the

2:58:12primary dwelling had to be owner

2:58:13occupied and we determined that we

2:58:15couldn't actually probably legally do

2:58:18that. And I noticed that it is not in

2:58:20there, so I'm glad that has been taken

2:58:22out.

2:58:23But there are a lot of other

2:58:24departmental things. So that the solid

2:58:26waste issue and the billing and and how

2:58:28the cans and the number of cans, that is

2:58:30not something that's discussed during

2:58:32platting, is it?

2:58:34>> So when when we look at that and during

2:58:36the plat process, public works, we

2:58:39review what is provided to us from

2:58:40engineering when it comes to layout of

2:58:43the system. And so that to my knowledge,

2:58:46that is not something that is currently

2:58:47looked at.

2:58:48Uh during the plat review stage.

2:58:51>> So it's all stuff that we might get that

2:58:53we would end up being approved through

2:58:55other departments that then solid waste

2:58:58would have to pick up the cost for and

2:59:00and pick up that extra work or make sure

2:59:01that they're doing the evaluation

2:59:04after the fact, I guess.

2:59:05>> I I just want to

2:59:07clarify one thing. I I heard you mention

2:59:09the term tiny home communities. Is that

2:59:12what we're what we're

2:59:14Is that what your question is

2:59:16specifically

2:59:18about? Because I I just want to

2:59:20make it clear that the proposed

2:59:22ordinance as written does not allow tiny

2:59:25home communities unless there's a PUD.

2:59:28So the only tiny homes that are allowed

2:59:30are on existing

2:59:33platted residential lots.

2:59:36So tiny home communities on page 12,

2:59:39subsection C,

2:59:41require a planned unit development.

2:59:44So this this proposed ordinance only

2:59:46allows tiny homes, tiny homes on wheels,

2:59:49and ADUs on existing residential lots.

2:59:51It's not the purpose of this ordinance

2:59:54is not to allow

2:59:57larger parcels to be subdivided to allow

2:59:59for tiny home communities. It's to allow

3:00:01them on infill lots only.

3:00:03>> But they could be a larger lot

3:00:04subdivided and brought forward with a

3:00:06PUD.

3:00:08>> Only if the subdivided Yes.

3:00:10By PUD.

3:00:12By PUD with with appropriate

3:00:14>> conditions in the site plan and all of

3:00:15that. So, all of those things could be

3:00:17addressed during the PUD.

3:00:19>> And I was actually more talking about

3:00:20adding ADUs.

3:00:23Not not necessarily the tiny home

3:00:25communities, but the auxiliary dwelling

3:00:28units that are then put there with that

3:00:30would have their separate trash cans,

3:00:32that would have their own vehicles, two

3:00:34to three cars on average per household

3:00:36anymore, right?

3:00:38That are going to be parking on the side

3:00:39of the street that inhibit the solid

3:00:41waste trucks, that inhibit fire trucks,

3:00:43that inhibit ambulances. I think there's

3:00:46a whole lot more we need to worry about.

3:00:50>> City Manager, you want to uh

3:00:52>> I know there's currently a motion on the

3:00:54floor, but I did just want to remind

3:00:55council if you feel you like you do not

3:00:57have enough information to make this

3:00:58decision tonight, you always have the

3:01:00option to table this. I don't want

3:01:02council to feel like they have to make

3:01:03it tonight and speculate or make

3:01:05assumptions or anything else. Staff is

3:01:07happy to answer questions and bring back

3:01:09that information, do whatever research

3:01:11is needed

3:01:12if additional information is needed for

3:01:14council to feel comfortable moving

3:01:15forward in whatever way you want to.

3:01:18>> Thank you, ma'am. And in addition to I

3:01:20encourage council um

3:01:22you know, you can always see staff and

3:01:26ask additional questions as you know. I

3:01:29really encourage that

3:01:30to to really get in-depth. Of course, I

3:01:33know some questions has to be

3:01:35uh asked here, but there are other

3:01:37questions that you could

3:01:39that you may want to just get with

3:01:40staff.

3:01:41Um okay, uh the motion is on the floor.

3:01:44Uh

3:01:46Could you repeat the motion again, uh

3:01:48City Attorney?

3:01:50>> Yes, the motion on the floor is to

3:01:51approve this item as presented.

3:01:54>> Okay, um all in favor of the motion

3:01:58signify by

3:02:00yes, all opposed no.

3:02:09>> Okay, uh the motion passed

3:02:134 to 1

3:02:15uh with the council member Brown

3:02:16opposing.

3:02:18Thank you, council.

3:02:23Okay, um

3:02:25Madam

3:02:26Secretary.

3:02:30>> Discussion items. Number 18, DS-26-090,

3:02:37discuss electric vehicle chargers in

3:02:40Killeen.

3:02:43Good evening, Mayor, City Council.

3:02:44[clears throat]

3:02:46>> Um before you is a item for um electric

3:02:49vehicle chargers.

3:02:51Um tonight I'll discuss um how many are

3:02:53within the city as well as the city's EV

3:02:56charger initiative project.

3:03:00A little background.

3:03:00[cough and clears throat]

3:03:01City Council approved resolution 24-089

3:03:05in May of 2024 to execute an interlocal

3:03:09agreement with Bell County.

3:03:11Bell County committed $50,000 towards

3:03:14the EV charging initiative. Funding

3:03:16originated from a tax abatement

3:03:18agreement with Grand Leader Texas 20

3:03:21LLC.

3:03:22Within this agreement, the city is to

3:03:24procure, locate, install, operate, and

3:03:27maintain station, and retain revenue.

3:03:33>> [snorts]

3:03:33>> So, here's a timeline as far as the EV

3:03:37initiative goes. So, as stated in May

3:03:40May of 2024,

3:03:42um City Council approved the interlocal

3:03:45agreement with Bell County, and Bell

3:03:47County contributed that $50,000 towards

3:03:50our EV charger initiative.

3:03:52In September of 2024, the city applied

3:03:56for a federal grant to procure and

3:03:58install charger stations with a match in

3:04:01funding on the city's side. In January

3:04:04of 2025, a grant award was announced and

3:04:07Killeen was not selected as a recipient.

3:04:10In June of 2025, staff gathered project

3:04:14research from other municipalities

3:04:16in regards to procuring EV charging

3:04:19stations

3:04:20um

3:04:21and then also what it looked like if we

3:04:23were partnered with another um entity

3:04:27to um procure and install them.

3:04:30In July of 2025,

3:04:32uh based off of direction from City

3:04:35Council, staff um reached out to private

3:04:39sector partners to see if they would be

3:04:41interested in partnering with the city

3:04:43of Killeen um to house the EV charging

3:04:47station and discuss what that agreement

3:04:50would look like. Um we reached out to

3:04:52Academy, HEB on um Trimmier, Killeen

3:04:57Mall, and then Walmart on Lowe's

3:04:59Boulevard uh being that they were all

3:05:01off of I-14, seeing if they had any

3:05:04interest in partnering with us um

3:05:07and then maybe talk about sharing that

3:05:09revenue of some sort. Um all of these

3:05:12entities um were not interested in

3:05:14partnering with us.

3:05:16Um they did talk about how that they

3:05:18were doing their own EV charger charger

3:05:20initiative projects as well.

3:05:24So, let me fast forward to August of

3:05:252025.

3:05:27Um

3:05:28we [clears throat] then researched staff

3:05:30researched EV charger vendors.

3:05:32Um

3:05:33we identified FLO as a vendor through a

3:05:37co-op contract and they were also the

3:05:39vendor that the city of Temple used to

3:05:41install or to purchase their EV charger

3:05:44station from.

3:05:46Um during our discussions with FLO,

3:05:49um it was established that FLO would

3:05:51only provide the EV charging station,

3:05:53but they would not do the installation.

3:05:55That would come from the city side. Um

3:05:58staff then reached out to our

3:06:01procurement staff then reached out to uh

3:06:03the engineering department

3:06:05uh

3:06:06to contract with an engineering firm to

3:06:10uh look into the design of the

3:06:11installation for the EV charging

3:06:13station.

3:06:15Uh engineering department then

3:06:17contracted with MRB Group in February of

3:06:202026 for the design and bid specs of EV

3:06:24charging station. During our meetings

3:06:27with uh MRB Group um

3:06:31one of our meetings with Flo um

3:06:34coming into the conversation

3:06:36um

3:06:37talking as far as what their

3:06:38specifications were and how we need to

3:06:41go about the design for the

3:06:43installation, Flo then let us know that

3:06:45they are no longer selling to the US at

3:06:48this time.

3:06:51So, where we're at now as far as project

3:06:53status and next steps.

3:06:55The [clears throat] Killeen Civic and

3:06:56Conference Center has been identified as

3:06:58a location for the EV charging station

3:07:01pending uh ADA accessibility.

3:07:04Uh reason for this location is just it's

3:07:07a property that the city owns and it's

3:07:09right off the highway, so easy access

3:07:11for people that are traveling through

3:07:12Killeen.

3:07:14A walk-through has been conducted with

3:07:16MRB. Data has been obtained to build and

3:07:19design the specifications.

3:07:21The next step is to produce a bid for

3:07:23purchase and install of a EV charger.

3:07:27>> [snorts]

3:07:27>> So, during our um research um

3:07:30staff along with um data from PlugShare

3:07:34identified 31 existing charging units

3:07:38um within the city of Killeen. At the

3:07:40time that this presentation was

3:07:42prepared, 10 of those units um or 10 of

3:07:45those charging stations were reported as

3:07:47under repair and two are with

3:07:49dealerships at a level three, which is

3:07:52considered a fast charging station. So,

3:07:55here on the slide you have the locations

3:07:57of the EV charging stations, the units

3:08:00at those locations, and then the type or

3:08:03status of those um charging stations.

3:08:08And then this next slide just shows um

3:08:10the upcoming charging stations within

3:08:12the city of Killeen. There are 13

3:08:14planned. So, as you see um the two of

3:08:17the vendors that we reached out to, HEB

3:08:19on Trimmier and Walmart on Lowes

3:08:20Boulevard, um they are scheduled. It's

3:08:24already been identified that they have

3:08:26upcoming charging stations. I have heard

3:08:28that I've seen uh that people have seen

3:08:31them already at Lowes um or the Walmart

3:08:33on Lowes. However, I don't think that

3:08:35they're um accessible yet. And then um

3:08:39eight at Tilted Kilt, which would only

3:08:41be for Teslas.

3:08:44And then I'll be happy to answer any

3:08:45questions you might have.

3:08:46>> Well, thank you for bringing that. Um

3:08:48>> Sure.

3:08:48>> I asked for that to be on the agenda so

3:08:50we can just get an update of the EV

3:08:53locations and what we've done with the

3:08:55um

3:08:56the grant that was given

3:08:58by Bell County.

3:09:00And um thank you for that, Council. Um

3:09:02any questions, Council member Bell?

3:09:06>> Do you recall if there is a deadline for

3:09:09us after you expend those funds from the

3:09:11county?

3:09:12>> Um I do not. Um

3:09:14I don't believe that there was one in

3:09:16the contract, but I can go back and

3:09:17check on that for you.

3:09:19>> Okay. And then did

3:09:21um

3:09:23MRB give any indication as to what the

3:09:25cost would be to purchase a charging

3:09:28station, have the design work done, and

3:09:31have it installed?

3:09:33>> Um so, I can tell you I don't have uh

3:09:36the estimate from MRB. I do know when we

3:09:38spoke to Flow for a level three um

3:09:43charging station, which was dual, so I

3:09:45had two chargers, one platform uh or one

3:09:47pedestal, uh was $184,000.

3:09:51>> Okay, so then we'd have to 50

3:09:54about $50,000

3:09:57give or take, so about 60,000 per on top

3:10:01of the $150,000

3:10:03grant that we have. So that would cover

3:10:05one and then we'd still had have a

3:10:07$58,000 out of pocket, right?

3:10:10>> [clears throat]

3:10:10>> So it would be let me see. I have notes

3:10:14for you one second. So as far as I'm not

3:10:17sure as far as the actual installation

3:10:20goes,

3:10:21but the $184,000

3:10:24for the charger and then

3:10:26so you're still looking at

3:10:33maybe $130,000 out of pocket after that

3:10:3750.

3:10:38>> Okay, cuz that that was just for the

3:10:40purchase cost not for install.

3:10:42>> Correct. Yes, that's just yes, I don't

3:10:44have

3:10:45a quote from MRB as far as the install

3:10:47goes yet.

3:10:49>> Okay.

3:10:50So it looks like we have a lot of them

3:10:51over the city around the city

3:10:54and if if we were going to build one

3:10:58based on everything that I just heard, I

3:10:59don't know why we wouldn't put it in

3:11:01front of the courthouse since we want

3:11:03people to come down to downtown Killeen

3:11:05and walk around.

3:11:06You know, we're making all these other

3:11:08exceptions for that area. But at this

3:11:11point, I don't know why we would move

3:11:12forward with even buying one. It looks

3:11:15like we've got a lot covered and this is

3:11:17going to be expensive for the city with

3:11:19no guarantee that the repair costs and

3:11:23the install wouldn't far outweigh any

3:11:26kind of revenue that we might be able to

3:11:27bring in on it, correct?

3:11:29>> Yeah,

3:11:30our last estimate when we were looking

3:11:32as far as how much revenue we would

3:11:34generate would be $16,000 annually.

3:11:37And that we probably wouldn't start

3:11:39generating revenue till about 3 years

3:11:40after installation. [clears throat]

3:11:42>> And that is that accounting for repairs

3:11:45and No.

3:11:46>> No, ma'am.

3:11:47>> So, we will probably be losing money on

3:11:48these.

3:11:50>> Without knowing the cost, I'm not 100%

3:11:53sure, but it would take us about 3 years

3:11:55to even make anything from it.

3:11:57>> So, I would I would probably say at this

3:11:59point I wouldn't even bother going out

3:12:02to bid.

3:12:09>> Thank you. Um Council Member Bass.

3:12:11>> Uh just to make sure I understand

3:12:14uh what we're discussing is possibly

3:12:17installing a charging station at the

3:12:19Killeen Civic and Conference Center. Is

3:12:22that correct?

3:12:22>> Yes, sir.

3:12:23>> We currently have $50,000 in our pocket

3:12:27from Bell County.

3:12:28>> Yes, sir.

3:12:29>> Um the total cost to uh install the

3:12:32charger

3:12:33uh would be around $180,000,

3:12:36correct?

3:12:36>> That is just the last estimate we got

3:12:39for a charger itself. I'm not sure yet

3:12:42as far as the installation cost. I have

3:12:43not received that estimate from MRB

3:12:45Group.

3:12:46>> So, the city uh would um

3:12:49be expending at least around $130,000

3:12:54for one charging station.

3:12:57>> Yes, sir.

3:12:57>> Um

3:12:59and then our revenue after 3 years might

3:13:02be 16,000 per year.

3:13:05>> That's correct.

3:13:06>> don't see the cost-effectiveness of this

3:13:09um considering the fact that uh

3:13:12but we do have a number of charging

3:13:14stations around the city, and I feel

3:13:17sure other uh

3:13:19companies and businesses will be

3:13:21installing them as time goes by. I just

3:13:24personally, I don't see the

3:13:26cost-effectiveness of doing this. Thank

3:13:29you.

3:13:30>> Thank you.

3:13:32>> Okay. Also, you um let me ask you uh is

3:13:35there any grants out there for

3:13:37installation of charge stations?

3:13:39>> Um, we we did apply for a grant back in

3:13:43uh 2024 which we weren't awarded. Um, I

3:13:46don't know as far as if it there's any

3:13:48more out there at this time. We can look

3:13:50into that though.

3:13:52>> Okay.

3:13:53Uh,

3:13:54the city manager?

3:13:57>> Just as a reminder for council, if we

3:13:58were to take this to the procurement

3:14:00process because it's over 100,000

3:14:02council would have final authorization

3:14:04on that. We need your approval so you

3:14:06this would come back to you

3:14:08before we spend money.

3:14:10>> Okay.

3:14:11Mayor Pro Tem?

3:14:12>> Thank you. Should uh council decide that

3:14:14we don't want to move forward with with

3:14:16this uh and research it, what happens to

3:14:18the $50,000 from the county?

3:14:21>> We would give it back to them.

3:14:22>> Thank you.

3:14:22>> You're welcome.

3:14:24>> Councilmember Kimble?

3:14:27>> Thank you, Mr. Mayor.

3:14:29We [clears throat] um

3:14:31at least from the last time I checked,

3:14:33we we have

3:14:35quite a few residents who live in

3:14:37Killeen that work that ride a bus and go

3:14:40to Tesla every day.

3:14:41>> Mhm.

3:14:43>> Has there been discussions with Tesla to

3:14:45maybe put a charging station in Killeen

3:14:48as part of an agreement as that back and

3:14:51forth? That kind of makes sense. I mean

3:14:52if it I mean

3:14:54um if if we are going to

3:14:58um I think we allow a lot of their cars.

3:15:00At one point the cars were being

3:15:01stationed I mean they were on city

3:15:03property. I think they're on private

3:15:04property now. I would think a natural

3:15:07conversation would be had with the Tesla

3:15:09Corporation

3:15:10uh

3:15:12call it in kind, good being good

3:15:15neighbors that you know as you you are

3:15:17you're taking busloads

3:15:20two busloads I believe, two busloads of

3:15:22people living Killeen.

3:15:23They go to Tesla. I think this happens

3:15:25every day. I think a charging station

3:15:27should be part of some type of

3:15:31negotiations to go back and forth. It

3:15:33looks like you have something to say

3:15:34about that, ma'am.

3:15:35>> Uh yes, uh Tesla has a application.

3:15:39Uh if you want to uh request Tesla to

3:15:41come and do a uh

3:15:44uh survey in your city or in your area,

3:15:46they come, they install the uh the

3:15:49chargers and they start uh because of

3:15:51their business.

3:15:52>> Mhm.

3:15:53>> And it's their revenue. It has nothing

3:15:55to do with the city, right? So, they

3:15:56will come and do it themselves if they

3:15:58see that they will get uh value in it.

3:16:01Uh I looked into it

3:16:03before when we started looking into this

3:16:05in 2024, so.

3:16:07So, that's how Tesla does. They do have

3:16:09one in uh Harker Heights in uh Target.

3:16:11So, for us to get one, we would have to

3:16:13uh and I don't think it

3:16:15uh the city itself can do it,

3:16:17uh but uh we could uh uh reach out, but

3:16:21uh they will do the survey themselves.

3:16:24>> Okay.

3:16:25>> And uh

3:16:26decide they it will be a profitable for

3:16:28them to bring it over.

3:16:30>> And for full disclosure, I do own a

3:16:32Tesla.

3:16:33I do not own stock in Tesla. Uh just

3:16:35just in case anybody wants to. There's

3:16:37one in the parking lot registered to me,

3:16:39but uh and I do use the one in Harker

3:16:41Heights very frequently.

3:16:42>> Yes.

3:16:43>> Thank you.

3:16:44>> Yes, sir.

3:16:45>> Councilmember [snorts] Brown.

3:16:46>> [cough]

3:16:47>> Wait, [clears throat] don't go away, Ms.

3:16:47Tanklin. So, you're saying that the

3:16:50applications for Tesla, they they would

3:16:52have to be submitted by private

3:16:54organizations that really didn't munici-

3:16:56didn't

3:16:57the municipality doesn't apply for it.

3:16:59It would be a private company.

3:17:01>> Yeah, I mean, uh we can try to do it,

3:17:03but I don't think it's appropriate

3:17:05because we don't really uh going to get

3:17:07anything from it.

3:17:08>> Okay. Um so, I just a general question.

3:17:12I know what the

3:17:14city manager said regarding, you know,

3:17:16this would still have to come back

3:17:19um for approval to the council,

3:17:21but there's still time involved with

3:17:23going through that procurement process

3:17:25and and getting the bids. And I know

3:17:26there's still a cost work because we

3:17:27have to do the public and legal notices.

3:17:30So, I think

3:17:31would it be appropriate if the council

3:17:33feels like maybe this is not worth the

3:17:35expense of going through and us actually

3:17:38building one, would it be more

3:17:40appropriate for council to give a motion

3:17:41to say, "Okay, just stop for right now

3:17:44until we see what it if there are other

3:17:47more equitable or more profitable

3:17:49options?"

3:17:52>> Yeah, you can absolutely give that

3:17:53direction. Um but I mean, there's

3:17:55there's going to be time involved too in

3:17:56looking for other options. And so, we're

3:17:58happy to pursue either a council

3:18:00directive.

3:18:01>> Well, I I think if we're saying look for

3:18:03other options, I feel like it would be

3:18:05partially our responsibility to look

3:18:07around and see what Councilmember Kimble

3:18:09and his idea to see about Tesla coming

3:18:11in. Maybe we know businesses that would

3:18:13apply for it. Um

3:18:15you know, that we can start doing that

3:18:17outreach.

3:18:18Uh not necessarily telling staff that

3:18:20you have to go look for other options.

3:18:23But at this point, it does not look like

3:18:25it's fiscally responsible for us to

3:18:27build

3:18:28this [snorts and clears throat] um and

3:18:30and go through with this. So, I would

3:18:31make

3:18:32a motion to direct staff to uh just halt

3:18:37the procurement process on EV charging

3:18:40stations.

3:18:42>> There's been a motion. Is there a

3:18:43second?

3:18:45Councilmember Kimble?

3:18:48>> No, I had

3:18:49>> Okay.

3:18:50>> No, I was for comment or discussion.

3:18:54>> There is no second the motion.

3:18:57Uh Councilmember Bass?

3:18:59Second by Councilmember Bass. Uh

3:19:02any discussion?

3:19:04Councilmember Kimble?

3:19:05>> Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Uh

3:19:08I I understand the motion.

3:19:11I know that we we we talk about and we

3:19:13all have committed to to be very uh sup-

3:19:17very um what's the word I'm looking for?

3:19:19Very careful with with with the public

3:19:21funds.

3:19:22But, I think if we use the guiding post

3:19:25of is it profitable profitable to the to

3:19:28to the city? I think we have to be

3:19:30careful with There's a lot of things

3:19:31that we do that don't make money.

3:19:34We we build playgrounds that we don't

3:19:35charge kids, right? We do a lot of

3:19:37things in this town that aren't

3:19:39profitable, but they are what the

3:19:41citizens want. So, I don't want to use

3:19:42that as a guiding as a guide post to

3:19:45whether we do something and I I know

3:19:47there are many many citizens

3:19:49me I talk about myself that have that

3:19:51really want a charging station in this

3:19:53in the city. And we can't say oh we all

3:19:55to say we're not making no money, we're

3:19:56not going to do it. I think we should do

3:19:58it if it makes sense and if the public

3:19:59wants it. I just want to I just want to

3:20:01go on record with saying that and I know

3:20:04it's not city's not going to make any

3:20:05money, but if I if I have hundreds of

3:20:08citizens who want their the little bit

3:20:10of tax dollars that they do spend if

3:20:13they want us to to research and find an

3:20:16option for a charging station, I think

3:20:18that we should that we in good spirit

3:20:20whether it's not the whether it's not

3:20:21the staff, whether it's us as as

3:20:23individual council members, I will be

3:20:26looking for those options. So,

3:20:28thank you. Yeah, and council um

3:20:33council member Kimball, I I agree. I I

3:20:35think that we shouldn't close the book

3:20:37on looking at Greenville is the

3:20:39I believe it's the 19th largest city in

3:20:41the state.

3:20:43And I think we should always be just to

3:20:46close it and say we're not going to do

3:20:47anything.

3:20:49It's not moving forward and

3:20:53I think to spend the money, I mean, what

3:20:55would it Let me ask you this.

3:20:57If we just held on to it

3:20:59the 15 the 50,000.

3:21:02I mean,

3:21:03until we can perhaps maybe attach it to

3:21:06something some type of grant.

3:21:09Is that possible?

3:21:13>> I I just need to review the contract as

3:21:16far as if there was a deadline for that,

3:21:18but um to this point, yes, we have held

3:21:20on to it and we we um did try to apply

3:21:23for a grant. Um didn't get it. Um

3:21:26got some directive and moved forward

3:21:28that way, but yes, I can look into that.

3:21:30>> Yeah, and

3:21:32I don't own an EV.

3:21:34I'm just saying I think that we

3:21:36uh it's always looking for

3:21:38possibilities,

3:21:39you know, and I think this is one of

3:21:41them and we should consider it not just

3:21:43close the door on it. Council member uh

3:21:45Mapleton.

3:21:47>> So,

3:21:48I do [clears throat] like what Council

3:21:49member Campbell said and if it's

3:21:50something that's not going to come out

3:21:51of our pocket, but could be a benefit to

3:21:53our community, do we need to put a

3:21:55timeline on a for Council to come back

3:21:57for discussion or is that something how

3:21:58would we handle bringing that back once

3:22:00we've gotten feedback? Is there better

3:22:02Is it best to set a timeline for us to

3:22:03come back with that?

3:22:05>> [clears throat]

3:22:07>> Um this may be helpful. I did want to

3:22:09comment on the actual I have the

3:22:11contract in front of me, the interlocal

3:22:12agreement, and so there is no due date

3:22:14in the contract with regard to when we

3:22:16have to comply. Um there is a default

3:22:19provision that could be used by either

3:22:21party if if the other party didn't

3:22:24timely comply um with with constructing

3:22:27this EV station and there are terms in

3:22:30it where the um where either party could

3:22:33terminate the contract prior to any

3:22:35expenditure of funds. And so if the

3:22:37Council wanted to do that, you could

3:22:39give us a motion of direction to do

3:22:41that.

3:22:41>> Thank you. Well, with that, I would like

3:22:43to make a motion to amend

3:22:45>> Motion

3:22:46>> Okay, I'm sorry.

3:22:47>> That's it.

3:22:47>> That's it.

3:22:48>> That's okay. I'd like to make a motion

3:22:50to amend

3:22:51uh the motion to bring this back uh the

3:22:54discussion back um in 6 months.

3:22:59I think 6 is that cuz that gives Council

3:23:01time to reach out to these corporations

3:23:03and I think it was a great idea that he

3:23:05had there and there might be other

3:23:06opportunities.

3:23:11>> Yes.

3:23:12>> Um

3:23:14>> Yes.

3:23:18>> Okay, I make a recommendation to amend

3:23:21the

3:23:22I'm sorry.

3:23:23I'm sorry. [clears throat]

3:23:25I make a motion to amend

3:23:27the

3:23:28conversation for Council to have bring

3:23:30that back in

3:23:313 months.

3:23:33Thank you.

3:23:34>> Second.

3:23:36>> Okay, it was motion

3:23:38>> [clears throat]

3:23:39>> No, it

3:23:40Please, you know, Council member

3:23:42Kendrick's had the floor. He was noted

3:23:45to have the floor. So, it was

3:23:49motion to amend by Mayor Pro Tem and

3:23:52then

3:23:52then I reckon the floor recognizes

3:23:55Council member Kendrick's.

3:23:58>> Second.

3:24:01>> I I pressed prior to the motion being

3:24:05made for discussion.

3:24:07>> Yeah, but she was first. You you did

3:24:09press, but you was after her.

3:24:11>> But if there's still discussion, I don't

3:24:13know if we can discuss I Everybody else

3:24:15talked about it. I didn't get a chance

3:24:16>> There's still discussion.

3:24:18>> Right, but once the motion is on the

3:24:20floor, I can't go We can't go.

3:24:22>> what we did last time.

3:24:24I didn't get a chance to discuss.

3:24:26>> City

3:24:27City Attorney, could you explain that,

3:24:29please?

3:24:31>> So, I have a motion on the floor now and

3:24:34a second. Did you accept the second?

3:24:37On that? Because after you get a second,

3:24:39then you can discuss that motion and

3:24:40what's on the floor. Anybody We can

3:24:42discuss that.

3:24:45>> Yes, once once it's been a motion on to

3:24:48amend

3:24:51And Council Council And let me let me

3:24:53say this, Council. When you you can't

3:24:56just raise your hand, you have to

3:24:58press the button and be recognized. I'm

3:25:01I'm not talking about you, sir, but you

3:25:03have to be You can't just make a motion

3:25:04loudly. You have to be properly

3:25:07be recognized by the chair.

3:25:09>> [snorts]

3:25:09>> And I'm asking you to comply.

3:25:12Uh

3:25:13We need to

3:25:14I'm not I'm not I'm not talking to you

3:25:16about you, sir. This is not about you.

3:25:18I'm I'm just just want to correct some

3:25:20things.

3:25:21Uh with that. Uh so,

3:25:24it's it's

3:25:26we still need to second. So, if you uh

3:25:29We need to second because there's a

3:25:30motion. So, we got to recognize the

3:25:32motion. So, Councilmember Brown.

3:25:35>> Second.

3:25:36>> Okay. Now, we can open for discussion.

3:25:39Councilmember Kendrick.

3:25:48>> Well, I just want to first go on the

3:25:50record of saying that I pressed the

3:25:52button prior to all of this and the last

3:25:54time we was talking about any motions

3:25:57and everything.

3:25:59Um

3:26:00that's what was said and you was going

3:26:02to go in order to where everybody had a

3:26:04chance to speak at least one time. I

3:26:07didn't get that I was not awarded that

3:26:09opportunity. So, I just want to go on

3:26:11record to say I was not awarded that

3:26:13opportunity until after this motion.

3:26:16Now, what I wanted to say was that a lot

3:26:20of citizens I don't drive uh

3:26:23an electric car, but a lot of citizens

3:26:25are asking for that service. They're

3:26:27saying, "Why do I have to go all the way

3:26:29to Harker Heights to charge my vehicle?

3:26:31Why do I have to go on post to charge my

3:26:34vehicle?" So, these are some of the

3:26:36things that we are getting and I and I

3:26:38think the way Councilmember Campbell put

3:26:41it and then Mayor Pro Tem that we bring

3:26:44it back to look at it. I just wanted to

3:26:46say I I agree with them 100%. That's all

3:26:49I wanted to do. Thank you.

3:26:54>> May I add something, Mayor?

3:26:56I just wanted to just add that in the

3:26:58presentation we show how many charging

3:27:00stations we have. And those the total

3:27:04actually going to to have eight charging

3:27:05stations that are from Tesla.

3:27:08So, uh

3:27:09City of Dillingham has our charging

3:27:11stations uh and and I think whenever we

3:27:13started this process in 2024, we didn't

3:27:16even have as many as we have now. And uh

3:27:19but we will look into the uh see uh if

3:27:22there is any grants out there for EVs uh

3:27:25charging stations.

3:27:26Uh but I uh 3 months, I don't know if

3:27:29we're going to have something specific

3:27:31or concrete uh since uh grants take a

3:27:34long time. That's why we went from 2024

3:27:37all the way uh 1 year waiting for a

3:27:39grant to get approved or disapproved.

3:27:43So, I just wanted to add that.

3:27:44>> Thank you. Thank you. Okay, so the

3:27:47motion is

3:27:48Council member Brown.

3:27:51>> I I just want to add to what Councilman

3:27:55Kendrick said and what Ms. Tanglin said.

3:27:59Uh a lot of people are asking for them.

3:28:01I don't think a lot of people realize we

3:28:03have so many in Cleburne or where they

3:28:05are. So,

3:28:07I we have too many motion we have a

3:28:09motion and a an amendment on the floor

3:28:11right now. I'm just going to put it out

3:28:12here though as an idea that maybe that's

3:28:15something that um we can work with

3:28:17communications on

3:28:19to help highlight where those locations

3:28:22currently are and the types of chargers

3:28:24at those locations

3:28:26uh in the interim just to show people

3:28:29what's going on and then celebrate any

3:28:32new ones that come in. Thank you.

3:28:37>> Okay.

3:28:39Any more discussion?

3:28:41Okay, there's no more discussion. Um

3:28:44Um all in [snorts] favor with the

3:28:46amendment

3:28:49signify by yes, all opposed no.

3:28:56Motion passed 5 to 0.

3:28:59Okay.

3:29:01So, now we can go back to the vote. Is

3:29:03that correct?

3:29:04>> Right. Now, you'll go back to the motion

3:29:06as amended. So, the motion as amended is

3:29:08to halt procurement on EV charging

3:29:09stations and bring back in 3 months.

3:29:11>> Yes, yes, ma'am. Thank you.

3:29:13>> And Mayor, if I can get clarity, when

3:29:15you say bring back in 3 months, you want

3:29:17staff to come back with information on

3:29:20other grants that are available,

3:29:21community input? What is it that council

3:29:23is wanting staff to bring back?

3:29:26>> Mayor Pro Tem.

3:29:27>> Thank you. The recommendation was that

3:29:29we could reach out because she said that

3:29:31grants would probably take too long, but

3:29:33there was an opportunity for us to reach

3:29:34out directly to not only Tesla, but

3:29:36other organizations. So, council is

3:29:38taking that initiative, and we would

3:29:40like that opportunity, but we want to

3:29:41bring it back for discussion in that

3:29:43time frame.

3:29:43>> Yes, ma'am. Thank you.

3:29:46>> Okay. Um

3:29:52All those who favor of the motion as

3:29:55amended

3:29:58signify by yes. All opposed? No.

3:30:03Motion passed 5-0. Thank you.

3:30:06>> Thank you.

3:30:07>> Thank you all. Appreciate the

3:30:09the work.

3:30:12Okay. Madam S-

3:30:14Secretary.

3:30:15>> Item 19 DS-26-091.

3:30:21Discuss city cemetery expansion.

3:30:24>> Mr. Murphy.

3:30:25>> Good evening, Mr. Mayor, uh council.

3:30:28Uh

3:30:28standing before you tonight is to bring

3:30:29up a discussion about the expansion of

3:30:32the Killeen City Cemetery.

3:30:34A little background. Uh the city took

3:30:36over the cemetery in June of 1950.

3:30:38Originally, it was 31.9 acres.

3:30:40The city acquired another 12.02 acres

3:30:43with the purchase of property to the

3:30:44south of the cemetery across the creek

3:30:46in 1993.

3:30:48Then, they acquired another 17.93 acres

3:30:51with the purchase of Old Drive in the

3:30:52property east of the cemetery in

3:30:542001

3:30:56totaling approximately 61.85 acres.

3:31:00Here's an overview of the cemetery as it

3:31:03lays and the additional properties as

3:31:05they were acquired. Um

3:31:08Some more background. In 2022, in 2020,

3:31:11the city of Killeen cemetery was

3:31:13approaching capacity. 141 new plots were

3:31:16created with the original within the

3:31:17original 31.9 acres. At the historic

3:31:20rate of scale, these new plots were

3:31:21projected to accommodate 14 years of

3:31:23plot purchases.

3:31:25As of 2022, the city of Killeen no

3:31:27longer has any plots left to sell. The

3:31:29only public cemeteries available within

3:31:31the city limits are Killeen Memorial

3:31:32Park and Central Texas Veterans

3:31:34Cemetery.

3:31:36Uh current operation costs for um

3:31:39maintaining the city secretary total

3:31:41$147,449

3:31:43annually. That comprises of one crew

3:31:46leader, one senior secretary, two ground

3:31:48maintenance workers, and one seasonal

3:31:49employee who works from May through

3:31:51August. Current operations for supplies,

3:31:54equipment, landscaping, uniforms, PPE,

3:31:55and consumables total about $35,000 a

3:31:58year.

3:32:00The revenues generated from FY

3:32:022026 were $2,538.

3:32:06Digging service for an adult cremation

3:32:08burial are was $150 and we had 14.

3:32:12Digging service for infant burials were

3:32:13$100 we had which one. Tent and chair

3:32:16setup were $100 of which we had two. The

3:32:19deed transfer processing was $50. We

3:32:21only had one. And plot restoration was

3:32:23$22 per 4 hours.

3:32:27Um the expansion overview. The city has

3:32:30proposed to expand the 17.9 acres

3:32:32proposed expansion east of the existing

3:32:34cemetery.

3:32:35The east area provides direct access to

3:32:37existing cemetery and more suitable

3:32:38layout for development. South area

3:32:40includes a creek and flood plains. In

3:32:42addition to the south area was also

3:32:44targeted to for the reunification center

3:32:47when it was being proposed and a

3:32:48possible site for the temple tiny

3:32:50housing for transitional housing.

3:32:54Uh the preliminary parent concept is the

3:32:5517.9 acres east of the existing has a

3:32:58preliminary capacity for 5,000 plus

3:32:59burial plots.

3:33:01Road network would include 30-ft wide

3:33:03main spine with a 20-ft 21-ft internal

3:33:06cemetery drives with pedestrian access

3:33:08along the main drive.

3:33:09The concept includes shared concrete

3:33:12monument strips, sidewalks, lighting,

3:33:14drip irrigation, fencing, gates,

3:33:16signage, and benches.

3:33:19Preliminary planning concept and early

3:33:20planning layout shows that there will be

3:33:22approximately 5,546

3:33:24potential plots.

3:33:26Plot count may change based on design,

3:33:28survey, engineering, and other needs

3:33:29such as drainage and utilities.

3:33:31An engineer will need will be needed to

3:33:33for design and cost.

3:33:36Preliminary planning cost as an estimate

3:33:37of from 2027 would be about 6.9 million

3:33:41including cost escalation, design,

3:33:43construction, contingency at a starting

3:33:45point and can be adjusted as project

3:33:47priorities are better defined.

3:33:48Engineer will be be needed for to

3:33:50develop a layout, potential phasing, and

3:33:52needed project features based on

3:33:53feedback.

3:33:56Other cost consideration would be the

3:33:57additional addition staffing, one

3:33:59equipment operator, two ground

3:34:00maintenance workers at a cost of

3:34:02$101,059

3:34:04annually. Additional equipment would be

3:34:07mini excavators, two mowers, which would

3:34:09total about $98,000.

3:34:12Repairing existing Repairing existing

3:34:14cemetery roads, cemetery mapping,

3:34:16headstone survey, and software would add

3:34:18up to about $16,000 in upfront cost with

3:34:21an additional $1,134

3:34:23per year.

3:34:24Future features such as a columbarium,

3:34:26mausoleum, seating area, or restroom

3:34:28facility would need to be considered.

3:34:30The potential revenue from new plot

3:34:32sales would generate $1,164.50

3:34:36as a benchmark average.

3:34:38Um digging services is

3:34:40would be opening and closing burial at

3:34:42$1,350

3:34:44as a benchmark area. Cremation burials

3:34:46would be about 150 as a benchmark. And

3:34:49on a cremation burial, each block can

3:34:50accommodate two caskets and six

3:34:53cremains.

3:34:55Um staff needs direction from council to

3:34:57have parks and recreation further

3:34:58develop and refine a plan for cemetery

3:35:00expansion, and I'm here to answer any

3:35:02questions that you may have.

3:35:04>> Okay.

3:35:06Um

3:35:07Councilmember Bess.

3:35:11So, the estimated cost of the expansion

3:35:14[clears throat]

3:35:16is $6.9 million. Is my reading that

3:35:19correct?

3:35:20>> Yes, sir.

3:35:21>> Is that budgeted in the current budget?

3:35:23>> No, sir.

3:35:25>> Where would it come from?

3:35:26>> Uh that is what we would need direction

3:35:28from because there were no plans. This

3:35:30was brought for a discussion item. Uh my

3:35:32understanding is that in past years and

3:35:34past previous councils, it may have been

3:35:36a discussion item, but we hadn't

3:35:39had a chance to build direct costs or

3:35:40look at how we would fund this. It was

3:35:42just brought up for something to

3:35:43consideration to see if city wanted to

3:35:45further the council wanted to further

3:35:46investigate the opportunity.

3:35:48>> Um city manager, um

3:35:51I'm assuming we don't have 6.9 million

3:35:53dollars just sitting around.

3:35:55>> We sure do not. [clears throat]

3:35:56>> Okay.

3:35:57And then, um 5,546

3:36:01potential plots,

3:36:03um how many years would that last?

3:36:07>> Sir,

3:36:08um

3:36:09that's kind of hard to predict

3:36:10exponential of what death rates may be.

3:36:13What I can say is that you're not going

3:36:14to end up doing

3:36:16uh

3:36:17two, three, 400 plots a year. Uh just

3:36:19because there's other competing

3:36:20cemeteries.

3:36:22Um the trend now is more people are

3:36:23lending towards cremation as opposed to

3:36:25actual burial plots. So, there are a lot

3:36:27of factors to be considered in that. Um

3:36:30long-term, this would probably be

3:36:33conservatively, probably a 30- or

3:36:3540-year integration to see all those

3:36:37plots consumed.

3:36:40>> Thank you. And uh city manager,

3:36:42um

3:36:43considering the fact that we're we're

3:36:45out of plot,

3:36:47uh what are the residents' um options at

3:36:50this point?

3:36:51>> Occasionally, what will have happen is

3:36:53people will buy plots in advance, um and

3:36:55I may be assigned three transfers a year

3:36:57for people who want to sell plots. And

3:36:59if we have uh individuals who've

3:37:02inquired about it, um we can certainly

3:37:04offer um those plots up. Mr. Murphy, do

3:37:07you recall about how many requests for

3:37:09plots we currently get a year?

3:37:10>> Uh

3:37:12around three or four.

3:37:13>> Okay.

3:37:13>> Maximum. Um usually when uh there's a

3:37:17funeral arrangements arrangements are

3:37:18handled through a funeral home service,

3:37:20so they request the burial plots. And

3:37:22being that the cemetery has been full

3:37:24and honest since 2022, uh most of the

3:37:27funeral home directors here know know

3:37:28that, so they don't inquire. It is more

3:37:30so when we are trying to transfer a plot

3:37:33where family member may have passed on

3:37:35and no longer needs it or their fam-

3:37:37loved ones decided to do something else,

3:37:39but we don't get many of those requests

3:37:40per year.

3:37:41>> So, currently, we're basically in the

3:37:44maintenance business as far as our

3:37:46cemetery.

3:37:47>> Yes, sir.

3:37:47>> Thank you very much.

3:37:49>> [snorts]

3:37:50>> Okay, Council member Brown.

3:37:53>> [clears throat]

3:37:55>> You're right, Mr. Murphy. This has been

3:37:56talked about for a long time. Actually,

3:37:58I was talking about this back in 2020

3:38:01before we ran out of plots when we were

3:38:03first told that we were on the verge of

3:38:05running out, and the city manager at the

3:38:07time told us that we shouldn't be in the

3:38:09cemetery business because it doesn't

3:38:11make us money, but

3:38:13really, Mr. Murphy, how many

3:38:15things within your department make the

3:38:17city money?

3:38:19>> [laughter]

3:38:20>> Right. I know. Rhetorical. Don't You

3:38:23don't have to answer.

3:38:24Okay. I'm not going to put you on the

3:38:25spot like that. But but truthfully, most

3:38:29of parks and rec, most of the services

3:38:31that the city of Columbia provides do

3:38:33not bring back that money. One of the

3:38:35reasons why a city city cemetery is so

3:38:39important is because it is a fraction of

3:38:42the cost of going to one of these

3:38:44private cemeteries. Um

3:38:47but also look this is a legacy. Uh

3:38:52families like to all be buried together.

3:38:54I know that uh my husband and I have

3:38:57talked about when we pass

3:38:59being buried back with our families up

3:39:01in New York. Um I think that it's

3:39:04important for us to maintain this. This

3:39:07property has been intended for this for

3:39:09a long time. Now with that said Mr.

3:39:11Murphy, is there a way for us to

3:39:13incrementally

3:39:14do the engineering on this additional

3:39:17land and take

3:39:19a smaller portion of it and then I'm

3:39:22presuming that would be a smaller cost

3:39:24[clears throat] up front.

3:39:25>> Uh in theory, yes.

3:39:28Given the layout of it, you probably

3:39:30would want to do the overall planning

3:39:32and then see what the engineer

3:39:33recommends is phasing it out because you

3:39:35do have to do the infrastructure work

3:39:37and it would not make um

3:39:39cognitive sense from a construction

3:39:41point to build partial streets and then

3:39:44having to come back and do that work

3:39:45later when costs have gone up

3:39:46exponentially. You would probably want

3:39:48to get that

3:39:49the bulk nuts and bones and the skeleton

3:39:51laid out before you actually did the

3:39:53plot work.

3:39:54>> So how much of the 6.9 million is

3:39:57planning?

3:40:00>> That's hard to say because we didn't

3:40:02have a chance to actually have an an

3:40:03engineer come out and provide an

3:40:05estimate within the time frame to turn

3:40:06around and have this discussion.

3:40:08Um

3:40:09using just typical for other projects

3:40:11that we've had it could be anywhere from

3:40:1450,000 to 150,000 and that's being very

3:40:18conservative because this is my first

3:40:20experience having to look at expanding

3:40:22something like a cemetery.

3:40:24>> But significantly less than 6 million in

3:40:26pro definitely we never we can never say

3:40:29definitely but presumably even less than

3:40:31a million dollars more than likely less

3:40:34than 200,000.

3:40:36>> Yes.

3:40:38>> So [snorts]

3:40:39would you be able to with Council

3:40:41consensus get us a a better cost idea of

3:40:45what just the planning portion of it

3:40:47would cost and bring that back to a

3:40:49later meeting?

3:40:50>> Yes, ma'am. We can look at that.

3:40:51>> Yeah, we couldn't Christina can correct

3:40:54me if I'm wrong but typically when

3:40:55you're looking at like engineering

3:40:56design cost you're looking at what 10%

3:40:57of the project cost?

3:40:59>> Yes.

3:41:00>> Okay.

3:41:02But we're we're not actually looking at

3:41:04engineering design. We're looking at the

3:41:06the planning. Is is that what you're

3:41:07saying Mr. Murphy or there's two

3:41:08different things?

3:41:09>> Those are very much two different

3:41:10things. The engineer the planning cost

3:41:12of it would be looking at like the bare

3:41:14bones the nuts the street the

3:41:15infrastructure. There would also have to

3:41:17be some turning of earth to look at

3:41:20preparing it for plots. Currently the

3:41:23particular plot

3:41:24acres that we're looking at there was

3:41:26some pavement overlay that would have to

3:41:27be graded up so there some

3:41:29deconstruction that would have to go on.

3:41:31And looking at it in theory

3:41:33I guess it would be a walk-through where

3:41:35somebody could consult and give us a

3:41:36rough estimate but until we really start

3:41:39talking about the nuts and bolts of what

3:41:41engineering design looks like

3:41:43it would be hard to assess what that 10%

3:41:45actually looks like.

3:41:49>> Good evening. I'm just going

3:41:50[clears throat] to supplement what he

3:41:51just said and state that what we would

3:41:54do from an engineering perspective is

3:41:55look at a concept plan and a study

3:41:57first. So that full 10% you're looking

3:42:00at the concept plan preliminary

3:42:02development maybe some phase development

3:42:04before you get to final construction.

3:42:07And so it would it could be broken up

3:42:09over time. At this point I'd recommend

3:42:11that conceptual phase. You are going to

3:42:13have some subsurface utility exploration

3:42:15because that part of town there's a lot

3:42:18of stuff there we don't know.

3:42:19And as well as the soils in the area

3:42:22because of the flood plain, we're going

3:42:23to want to do um

3:42:25some some soil studies uh to determine

3:42:28what can be done.

3:42:31>> Okay, um we asked you

3:42:33um

3:42:34Mr. Murphy

3:42:37the 6 million 6.9 what

3:42:40that estimate came from where?

3:42:43>> Um

3:42:44brief conversation with our engineering

3:42:45department reaching out to certain

3:42:47consultants. That was a ballpark fish

3:42:49figure we got on current construction

3:42:51cost

3:42:52uh for projects similar in scope. Um

3:42:55again

3:42:56no one in our resource had expertise

3:42:59doing actually a cemetery. So looking at

3:43:02road developments and things along with

3:43:04similar line is where we were able to

3:43:06come up with it.

3:43:07>> Okay, because I

3:43:08I I had them put on the agenda because

3:43:10of

3:43:11you know, the citizens were asking about

3:43:13this and they they were that we don't

3:43:14have any plots. And so

3:43:16wanted to make a

3:43:17uh

3:43:18the citizens aware where we at

3:43:21and what we could do. Some some already

3:43:23knew that we had additional property to

3:43:26do that.

3:43:26>> What?

3:43:27>> And uh so um just trying to get it

3:43:30that's that's a high 6.9 or 7 million

3:43:33dollars.

3:43:34>> Well, here here's what you got to

3:43:35consider Mr. Mayor. Once you start to um

3:43:38add a new section, update, you have to

3:43:40bring everything up into 88 compliance.

3:43:42There's old parts of the cemetery that

3:43:44would require new road work which may be

3:43:47resetting the graves that are already

3:43:49dug to be brought into the day's

3:43:51standards and um building and design. So

3:43:54it can add up very fast.

3:43:56Um again

3:43:58this cemetery was really established in

3:44:001950.

3:44:01The um

3:44:02codes and laws I'm quite sure have

3:44:04changed over time and construction costs

3:44:06are going up every day unfortunately.

3:44:09>> Thank you, sir. Council member Kimble.

3:44:12>> Thank you, Mr. Mayor.

3:44:14Tough business, Mr. Murphy.

3:44:16But I think um um

3:44:19before we go down this road of

3:44:23expending a whole lot of funds, I would

3:44:25like to hear from some professionals.

3:44:27>> Yes, sir.

3:44:27>> Unless you have professionals who in the

3:44:31cemetery mortician business that can

3:44:34give some actuary numbers on death,

3:44:36death rates, locations, I think it's

3:44:39before we can make any type of uh

3:44:42decision, I would like to hear from from

3:44:45them, find out what the trends are. Um

3:44:48I've you know uh

3:44:50we we've all talked and I've had this

3:44:51with my family. There's there's certain

3:44:53things that people want to happen,

3:44:54whether it's uh

3:44:56uh cremation and things like that. So,

3:44:58and I don't know what the trends are.

3:44:59>> Yes, sir.

3:45:00>> Um I I would like to hear what the

3:45:01trends are nationally and regionally,

3:45:04uh what what other military towns see in

3:45:06their trends, so we can plan and spend

3:45:08money uh uh uh

3:45:10um

3:45:11accordingly.

3:45:11>> Yes, sir.

3:45:12>> Uh I don't know if there I'm sure

3:45:14there's an association um of uh people

3:45:17who deal with this that we can get some

3:45:19data from.

3:45:20>> Okay.

3:45:20>> Uh I would really like to see what those

3:45:22are before we make some long-term plans

3:45:24that can affect us

3:45:26the city of Killeen for 20 years.

3:45:27>> Yes, sir.

3:45:28>> But, I would really would like to to

3:45:29hear from those who are Mr. Mayor, those

3:45:32who are in the business of uh dealing

3:45:35with this and seeing what the trends

3:45:36are, uh seeing what the costs are. Uh of

3:45:39course, you know, we would hear funeral

3:45:41uh I know funeral costs have gone up

3:45:43substantially particularly in the last 5

3:45:45years, and people are making other

3:45:48arrangements, which isn't necessarily

3:45:49burying bodies.

3:45:50>> Yes, sir.

3:45:51>> So, I I would like to hear uh in

3:45:53addition to

3:45:55uh the consensus from the council, any

3:45:56information

3:45:58uh from

3:46:00from the professionals that deal with

3:46:01this, so we can make a an informed

3:46:03decision.

3:46:04>> Yes, sir.

3:46:05>> Thank you, Mr. Mayor.

3:46:06>> Mayor Pro Tem.

3:46:08>> Thank you. I do concur [clears throat]

3:46:10with uh Council Member Kemble's uh

3:46:11recommendation completely. Um I would

3:46:13also like to add an inquiry [snorts]

3:46:16on this regarding the columbariums.

3:46:19Those are the outdoor cuz we mentioned

3:46:20that

3:46:21um people are being

3:46:23cremated, thank you. Cremated more often

3:46:26and so the columbarium um according to

3:46:28what I've read and again it could be

3:46:29wrong, but I'm just putting it out

3:46:31there. Um those are very uh much more

3:46:33cost-effective and can be quite

3:46:35beautiful. Um so if we look at a 100

3:46:38niche outdoor columbarium with an

3:46:40all-inclusive budget,

3:46:42we can look at that [clears throat] as

3:46:43well as an alternative.

3:46:45>> Yes, ma'am.

3:46:45>> And that's something that we could

3:46:46implement straight away. So at least

3:46:48potentially, if we decide to go that

3:46:50way, at least it's another alternative

3:46:51for people uh who still desire

3:46:54affordable options within our cemetery.

3:46:56It wouldn't be as cost

3:46:59uh prohibitive. So I would like us to

3:47:01look into that. Now do I need to make a

3:47:02motion of direction for that so that we

3:47:04can make sure this happens or is

3:47:06consensus of the council sufficient?

3:47:08>> A motion would be really helpful.

3:47:09>> Thank you. I'll wait until everyone has

3:47:10had a chance to speak. Thank you.

3:47:13>> Okay. Uh Council

3:47:15Council member Brown.

3:47:19>> So I I I looked at it really quickly.

3:47:21Adding a new portion wouldn't require us

3:47:23to bring the entire cemetery into ADA

3:47:26compliance.

3:47:27Um the only requirement would be the

3:47:29path of travel rule. So if the new

3:47:31section alters or relies on a primary

3:47:34function may being the main office,

3:47:36public restroom, or one central

3:47:38entrance, then we have to make sure that

3:47:40the path between the old section and the

3:47:42new section is ADA compliant. But

3:47:45there's also the the barrier removal

3:47:47title three where

3:47:49it also says that

3:47:51those uh costs of fixing that is legally

3:47:53capped. We're not required to spend no

3:47:56more than 20% of the cost of the new

3:47:58addition to modify anything to get from

3:48:01the old parts to the new part.

3:48:04>> I I would ask that if you whatever you

3:48:06research because I hadn't had a chance

3:48:07to look at it, the current street

3:48:09structure in the cemetery, they're like

3:48:1121 ft wide. So, those main arteries when

3:48:14you do it to bring it into ADA

3:48:15compliant, you would have to go back and

3:48:17rework those to make it. And those are

3:48:19arteries that run not just one lane or

3:48:22parallel, there will be multiple

3:48:24arteries leading to it. So, that again

3:48:26drives it up. I get what the standard

3:48:28says, but when you're looking at the

3:48:30connectivity from different access

3:48:31points, even from new to old, there are

3:48:33several arteries that

3:48:35for lack of better terminology, if you

3:48:37want to take people the long way around,

3:48:39uh

3:48:40it's my understanding that it's supposed

3:48:42to be the path of least resistance.

3:48:43>> But it's the main entrance or the main

3:48:46building. It's from the old to the new.

3:48:49So, we don't necessarily have to redo

3:48:51all of them. But that That being said,

3:48:54again, I think that we are very

3:48:55ill-equipped to make a decision on

3:48:57whether or not we move forward with

3:48:59expanding or how how many acres of it we

3:49:01do and so we get some more solid

3:49:03numbers. Um and I like the idea of at

3:49:06least coming back with

3:49:08the overall planning, not necessarily

3:49:11getting down into the nitty-gritty, the

3:49:13engineering, the soil, but give us an

3:49:15idea based on the planning, okay, this

3:49:18is how much we expect it would have to

3:49:19cost for the engineer, how much we

3:49:21expect the engineer and go on so on so

3:49:24forth from there, because it sounds like

3:49:25this 7 million is basically an overall

3:49:28to expand everything including all that,

3:49:30right?

3:49:31>> Yes.

3:49:32>> So, I think we can break this down into

3:49:34little chunks, but have a better idea if

3:49:36we give you more time to do so. And so,

3:49:38I hope when we're uh Pro Tem makes her

3:49:41her motion of direction, it would

3:49:43include coming back with more time for

3:49:45them to be able to investigate that.

3:49:47Thank you.

3:49:48>> Councilmember Bass.

3:49:50>> Um thank you, Mayor.

3:49:52>> [clears throat]

3:49:52>> As a point of reference,

3:49:55the phase three expansion of the Central

3:49:58Texas State Veterans Cemetery in Killeen

3:50:01uh is costing $16 million

3:50:04and

3:50:05and it's a 20-acre expansion.

3:50:08What we're discussing is an 18-acre

3:50:12expansion, which is very close to the

3:50:1420-acre with approximately 5,000 burial

3:50:19plots

3:50:20and out out at our Veterans Cemetery,

3:50:23it will be 4,700

3:50:26plus columbarium

3:50:28and in-ground cremated grave sites. So,

3:50:31just as a point of reference

3:50:34the one out at the Veterans Cemetery is

3:50:36a little bit larger

3:50:38and it's costing $16 million,

3:50:41but it's only 2 acres difference. So,

3:50:45obviously expanding cemeteries is a very

3:50:49expensive proposition.

3:50:51>> Yes, sir.

3:50:52>> Thank you.

3:50:53>> Mayor Pro Tem

3:50:56>> And thank you for that breakdown,

3:50:57Council member Bass. I appreciate that.

3:51:00I would like to [clears throat] make a

3:51:00motion of direction

3:51:03for staff to bring back in approximately

3:51:056 months

3:51:06just a breakdown assessment of this just

3:51:09so we can make an informed decision for

3:51:10our citizens and know what direction to

3:51:12travel. So, first

3:51:14providing expert reporting or trends as

3:51:17Council member Kimball recommended

3:51:20from experts as far as

3:51:22average deaths per year and things like

3:51:24that so we can figure out what that

3:51:25looks like for us.

3:51:27Also, on the columbarium,

3:51:29I would like to see an estimation for a

3:51:31100-niche outdoor columbarium with an

3:51:34all-inclusive projected budget. And

3:51:36let's try to cap it at about $140,000.

3:51:39And the reason I did

3:51:40said that is because in New York they

3:51:41did an installation at $140,000. A

3:51:44columbarium is really nice outside. So,

3:51:46it's possible it can be done under

3:51:47$250,000 in today's dollars. So

3:51:50let's just see what happens and see if

3:51:51we can project that out.

3:51:53And then also um

3:51:55an estimation planning the cemetery in

3:51:58phases so that we have something to

3:52:00compare to. So again, I'm requesting a

3:52:03to come back in 6 months

3:52:05with expert reports on trends, death

3:52:08trends, and things like that that we

3:52:09would need the information that we would

3:52:10need from experts to make an informed

3:52:12decision.

3:52:13A columbarium, 100 niche,

3:52:16capped at 200,000,

3:52:18all inclusive, and planning cemetery

3:52:21expansion in phases.

3:52:24Uh in approximately 6 months back to

3:52:26council. Thank you.

3:52:28>> Okay, is there a second?

3:52:31Council member Brown?

3:52:33>> Second.

3:52:35>> Okay, is there any discussion?

3:52:38There is no discussion.

3:52:40Um

3:52:42Council member Kendrick?

3:52:53>> I miss Murphy. I'm not trying to beat a

3:52:55dead horse. Um but if with that motion,

3:52:59everything else still has to come up

3:53:01within ADA compliance, right? The roads.

3:53:05Anything that you do will require

3:53:07everything else to have to be done.

3:53:09>> That is my understanding, but then

3:53:11again, like I said, with research, we

3:53:12can find out exactly

3:53:14>> Okay.

3:53:14>> to

3:53:15>> All right, that's all the questions I

3:53:16have.

3:53:20>> No other discussion. All in favor

3:53:22signify by

3:53:24yes.

3:53:25All opposed, no.

3:53:30Motion carried by zero. Thank you,

3:53:32council.

3:53:33Thank you, sir.

3:53:34>> Thank you.

3:53:34>> Thank you, Mr. Murphy.

3:53:36Madam Secretary.

3:53:41>> Item 20.

3:53:43DS-26-094.

3:53:46Discuss homelessness services plan,

3:53:49Armor of God Outreach.

3:53:52>> [clears throat]

3:53:55>> Good evening again, ma'am.

3:53:56>> Good evening again.

3:53:59Um I would like to say that this

3:54:00presentation was finalized prior to this

3:54:03evening. So, the final slide does not

3:54:06reflect um what we heard tonight, which

3:54:08is um the representatives from Armor of

3:54:10God still interested in moving forward

3:54:12with the shelter.

3:54:14So, Armor of God or ALG is a

3:54:16not-for-profit organization that

3:54:17provides services to persons

3:54:19experiencing homelessness or at risk of

3:54:21homelessness. The organization also owns

3:54:23the Shield of Faith Thrift Store at 61

3:54:25North Gilmer. On August 25th, the City

3:54:28of Killeen Council voted to set aside

3:54:30$200,000 for homelessness services with

3:54:32ALG. Sheltering services were to be

3:54:35offered via the ALG Seed of Hope program

3:54:38located at 1002 Medical Drive.

3:54:41On August 14th, ALG entered into an

3:54:43owner-financed purchase agreement for

3:54:45the site. The terms of the agreement

3:54:47provided that ALG would pay principal

3:54:50and interest for 7 years with a balloon

3:54:52payment due at year eight.

3:54:54After the agreement was signed, an

3:54:56application for rezoning to the site was

3:54:58submitted. On September 14th, P&Z voted

3:55:01to approve the request with a

3:55:03conditional use permit. Then on October

3:55:058th, Council approved the rezoning with

3:55:07conditional use permit as recommended by

3:55:09staff.

3:55:11The City of Killeen set aside funds

3:55:13again at the time that this was last

3:55:15discussed, ALG was going to use $100,000

3:55:17towards the down payment of the

3:55:19building, $21,000 for facility

3:55:21maintenance, $79,000 for startup costs,

3:55:23which could include security, kitchen

3:55:25appliances, and cleaning.

3:55:28On October 9th, uh staff facilitated a

3:55:31meeting with Friends in Crisis and ALG,

3:55:33which was previously scheduled pending

3:55:35what was going to happen on October 8th,

3:55:37to discuss the role of each organization

3:55:39to successfully transition persons from

3:55:41the Friends program to the Seed of Hope

3:55:44program. FIC developed a transition

3:55:46plan, which included a document to allow

3:55:48the sharing of client information. With

3:55:50the permission of the client, FIC would

3:55:52have provided the form to ALG to allow

3:55:54for a seamless transition for interested

3:55:57clients. And that is because some people

3:56:01would decide for themselves that they

3:56:02would not move forward with ALG.

3:56:05ALG was

3:56:06was to provide FIC with program

3:56:08information for distribution to

3:56:10interested clients. Upon receipt of the

3:56:12release of consent forms from FIC, Armor

3:56:15of God would have engaged interested

3:56:16persons to begin the intake of clients

3:56:18in late November. There would have been

3:56:20three cohorts, two groups of 16, one

3:56:23group of 12.

3:56:26On October 13th, staff was notified

3:56:29uh by ALG that they would not be moving

3:56:32forward with the outreach program. ALG

3:56:35stated that they would not be able to

3:56:37get the facility ready for operations by

3:56:39January 1 of 2027. Staff asked if there

3:56:43was a possibility that the initiative

3:56:45could be revisited within the next 12

3:56:47months.

3:56:48Um and yes, [clears throat] that was

3:56:50fast because technically they did bring

3:56:52it back up within the next 12 months.

3:56:54Just a little week over a little bit

3:56:55over week later. The ALG representative

3:56:58responded in the affirmative. It was

3:57:00further affirmed that ALG intends to

3:57:02support the city's homeless response

3:57:04efforts.

3:57:05Staff, again, this was prior to tonight,

3:57:09is requesting direction from council

3:57:11regarding the 200,000 set aside for the

3:57:13Armor of God outreach program.

3:57:20>> Okay.

3:57:22Councilmember Brown.

3:57:25>> I'm going to start off with an apology

3:57:27because for my part, when I

3:57:30voted last meeting to

3:57:33approve the conditional use permit, I

3:57:36did so without doing enough homework or

3:57:39asking enough questions. And I didn't

3:57:41realize the the actual amount that we

3:57:44were putting on the organization as far

3:57:45as what it takes to even have that

3:57:48masonry wall put up with engineers and

3:57:51the total cost and the entire process

3:57:54and length of time. So for that part, I

3:57:56will take it upon myself to apologize

3:57:58for making an uninformed decision. That

3:58:01time I felt like anything was better

3:58:02than nothing.

3:58:04That [snorts]

3:58:05being said,

3:58:06you know, I would love to hear from Mr.

3:58:10Han

3:58:11about where the thought process is now

3:58:14since we're hearing that there even as

3:58:16recent as today and then after we hear

3:58:18from Mr. Han and what his plan or his

3:58:21idea is, is that the same individual who

3:58:23you said is also actively planning for

3:58:26homeless shelter?

3:58:27>> Yes.

3:58:27>> Okay. So could we hear from Mr. Han,

3:58:30Mayor?

3:58:30>> Mr. Han, yes, we may.

3:58:32>> Thank you.

3:58:32>> [clears throat]

3:58:40>> Hello.

3:58:41>> Good evening, Mr. Han.

3:58:42>> I apologize. Last

3:58:44week we were tired and it's 11:00 at

3:58:47night, so I I apologize that with my

3:58:49demeanor, but I was very tired and not

3:58:51feeling well.

3:58:53>> That's okay. So can you give us a

3:58:55rundown

3:58:56of where you're at right now, what the

3:58:58plan is and what you are looking at

3:59:01doing as far as homelessness and the

3:59:03shelter?

3:59:04>> Our desire has always been there

3:59:07to to do it whether it's within Killeen

3:59:10or Bell County. We've we've looked at

3:59:11multiple different sites.

3:59:14We've looked at apartment complexes that

3:59:16are R3.

3:59:17We looked at the

3:59:19Mr. Boyd. Mr. Boyd had sent me the um

3:59:23Girl Scout

3:59:24building that's over on Lake Road that's

3:59:26R3 already.

3:59:29We've talked to the city about whether

3:59:31it would take a fire suppression system

3:59:33and what all all would take to get it

3:59:35ready. Um, there's still some confusion

3:59:38on that. Uh, just being R3 doesn't make

3:59:41it where it can be a shelter. It has to

3:59:43have different things. And I haven't got

3:59:46a really definitive effort or a

3:59:49definitive answer what that would take

3:59:52to get that building compliant to be a

3:59:54shelter.

3:59:55Um,

3:59:57so we're looking. We still have the

3:59:59desire. Um,

4:00:01but [clears throat] with desire it takes

4:00:02teamwork. I mean, all last meeting we

4:00:04talked about partnering and teamwork and

4:00:07all of that and uh, we want to be team

4:00:10Killeen. We don't have I've been here my

4:00:12whole life.

4:00:13Um, for some reason I don't know why

4:00:15it's so hard for us to to be team

4:00:17Killeen. Um, if I've done something

4:00:19wrong, please tell me so that I can try

4:00:22to fix it.

4:00:23But I've I'm trying to be team Killeen

4:00:25all the way.

4:00:26Um,

4:00:28our organization's trying to be team

4:00:29Killeen all the way. We want to help our

4:00:31own house population.

4:00:33We it it [laughter] kind of hurts my

4:00:35feelings that we're talking about $3

4:00:36million for dogs and we can't talk about

4:00:39$350,000 for souls.

4:00:42Um, so

4:00:45I know that

4:00:47this is, you know, everybody wants it to

4:00:49be a church thing.

4:00:51Everybody wants this to to and that's my

4:00:53goal and that's my heart is to bring our

4:00:56nonprofits and our churches together to

4:00:58take care of this.

4:00:59But they have to see leadership first

4:01:01and that's what we're trying to do,

4:01:02bring organizations together. We are

4:01:05bringing organizations together within

4:01:07the city, within the county.

4:01:09Feed My Sheep was here tonight. We're we

4:01:12are trying our best to to cross barriers

4:01:16where it can be a county-wide initiative

4:01:19eventually.

4:01:20Um,

4:01:21we're working [clears throat] with

4:01:21different organizations that are

4:01:23bringing in peer support specialist. Uh,

4:01:26we have a great plan, but we're never

4:01:29been able to present our plan to the

4:01:31city.

4:01:32We've never sat at a table and y'all

4:01:34heard me out.

4:01:36All you hear is asking me question after

4:01:38question after question. Well, what's

4:01:39your plan? Well, let me show you my

4:01:41plan, but you can't do it right here.

4:01:44I need to sit at the table with you and

4:01:46us talk about the problem that we've had

4:01:48for the last 10 years and let's come up

4:01:51with a plan that a comprehensive plan

4:01:54that Ms. Nash King asked for a plan last

4:01:57year.

4:01:58And I've been working ever since then to

4:02:00present a plan to the city.

4:02:04And it's it's it's sad that I could have

4:02:06to build a fence. I have to do all these

4:02:08things when we don't have a fence around

4:02:10our shelter now that's connected to a

4:02:12school.

4:02:15>> [snorts]

4:02:15>> I have to redo a whole the day of this

4:02:18meeting. I had to go through

4:02:23doing the whole new kitchen after I took

4:02:26them to the facility a month and a half

4:02:28prior.

4:02:30The fire marshal was there with me. The

4:02:31city in the city inspectors were there.

4:02:34We looked at the building.

4:02:37And then we come here and it's just like

4:02:39all that time's wasted. I have picnic

4:02:40tables back there already.

4:02:43I had to pay $350 from Ms. Williams to

4:02:45have a town hall meeting there from our

4:02:48city fire chief

4:02:50to have a fire watch when I asked for

4:02:52that back in September as well.

4:02:57So, how's that fair to me when I'm

4:02:58trying to do something for our city?

4:03:01I pay more money in sales or in

4:03:04inventory or

4:03:05property tax than anybody in this room

4:03:08probably

4:03:09in the city of Killeen.

4:03:11And I'm not bragging. I'm just saying I

4:03:13paid more property tax and I've been

4:03:16here longer than most people in this

4:03:18town

4:03:19in this in this room. And yet

4:03:22I'm the I'm the bad guy.

4:03:25>> So, Mr. Han, I don't think anybody here

4:03:27thinks you're a bad guy.

4:03:29I I understand the frustration. I do. I

4:03:33I think that a lot of us on the council

4:03:35are also frustrated. There's been a lot

4:03:38of back and forth, a lot of

4:03:40inconsistencies. I've called them out.

4:03:43I don't know if anybody has noticed a a

4:03:45little bit of tone for me, but I've been

4:03:47calling out the inconsistencies and how

4:03:50we we do not consistently apply the same

4:03:52things. This council said we don't know

4:03:55we no longer need a CUP for a data

4:03:57center for people who make millions and

4:03:59billions of dollars, but we want a CUP

4:04:02for a nonprofit organization that's

4:04:04coming in with a specific benefit or

4:04:07desire to benefit the city of Killeen.

4:04:09>> [snorts]

4:04:10>> Um we didn't need a CUP for the

4:04:12transitional living facility, the

4:04:14duplexes for

4:04:17for the homeless, but we needed a CUP

4:04:20for a shelter for somebody again coming

4:04:22in and trying to do good. And I have to

4:04:23wonder if you were trying to build it on

4:04:26Atkins and or Liberty, would you have

4:04:27gotten the same amount of issues? Cuz I

4:04:29don't think you would have. And so, for

4:04:31that, I also apologize and and that is

4:04:33just me speaking as Melissa Brown.

4:04:36>> Thank you.

4:04:36>> You too.

4:04:37>> my button again.

4:04:42>> Council member Bass.

4:04:46>> Could we go to the slide about the

4:04:47building?

4:04:56>> This one?

4:04:58Um I'm sorry. This one?

4:05:00>> Yes, thank you.

4:05:02Uh who owns the building right now?

4:05:04>> Uh it's two corporations that own it. I

4:05:07can't remember the names of it, but Jim

4:05:08Wright has

4:05:10he's got a partnership in it and then

4:05:11somebody else has a partnership in it

4:05:13and they're offering owner financing.

4:05:16>> And what is the asking price?

4:05:18>> 700,000.

4:05:20>> 700,000 for the building?

4:05:21>> Yes, sir.

4:05:22>> And um

4:05:24if the council uh gave

4:05:27allocated $200,000

4:05:30to Armor of God,

4:05:32uh you would use 100,000 of it for a

4:05:35down payment.

4:05:36>> The terms of the agreement is a 100,000

4:05:38down,

4:05:39a 30-year amortization with a 7-year

4:05:42balloon payment. So, within uh it's on a

4:05:4430-year payment plan, but I have to pay

4:05:46for it in 7 years, if that makes sense.

4:05:48>> Yeah.

4:05:49And how would you pay for it after you

4:05:52made the How would you pay for the other

4:05:54$600,000?

4:05:56>> Monthly payments of $3,973.

4:05:59>> $3,900 a month, and where would that

4:06:01money come from?

4:06:02>> It would be

4:06:04What How much was it?

4:06:05>> If If it's okay for me to ask this, I

4:06:07want I want to make sure is it proper

4:06:08for me to ask these questions?

4:06:11Is that okay?

4:06:18>> Oh,

4:06:19so the 3900 is on a 30-year

4:06:21amortization,

4:06:22okay?

4:06:23>> Yep.

4:06:24>> So, that's what it would take to pay it

4:06:25off in 30 years. At the 7th year, I have

4:06:27to either refinance that or have to pay

4:06:29it off.

4:06:31>> And where will Armor of God get the

4:06:33money to make these payments each month?

4:06:36>> We're praying that the thrift store will

4:06:37do really well.

4:06:39We have churches and things like that

4:06:40are coming alongside of us with us to

4:06:43provide the finances. We're doing

4:06:45fundraisers. So, we're we're doing a lot

4:06:48of things to do that uh to make that

4:06:51money

4:06:52to be able to pay for that.

4:06:53>> And how much money would it cost each

4:06:57month

4:06:59for Armor of God

4:07:01to accomplish

4:07:02your plan 100% and make the payments on

4:07:06the building?

4:07:07>> It would be 20

4:07:0921,900

4:07:11like $21,930.

4:07:14>> $21,930

4:07:18per month.

4:07:18>> Yes, and that that

4:07:20um has the insurance and it's got the

4:07:24the um

4:07:25I based our

4:07:27um utilities off of what I got from

4:07:30Friends in Crisis, what it cost them to

4:07:32run. So, it was roughly 67,000 a year.

4:07:35So, I just use based that off cuz I

4:07:37don't know utilities yet. And uh

4:07:40our insurance and all and that was that

4:07:42had a security for

4:07:44uh 12 hours a day.

4:07:46>> When I visited you the first time, you

4:07:48told me that uh you hoped that the um

4:07:52thrift store would generate up to 25,000

4:07:55dollars a month. Is that still a

4:07:57realistic

4:07:58goal?

4:08:00>> All right. And uh would the 21,930

4:08:04dollars a month pay for the part-time

4:08:06social worker?

4:08:07>> It would not pay for the part-time

4:08:08social worker. We have uh talked to

4:08:11different

4:08:12um colleges that would allow us Social

4:08:15Workers need 700 hours

4:08:19to pass to get their social work degree.

4:08:22We could have all the hours we needed

4:08:25with a part-time social worker

4:08:27um

4:08:27with a

4:08:29an intern social worker that would take

4:08:31care of all of those needs and we could

4:08:33have a social worker

4:08:35to to um

4:08:38oversee them for their intern hours.

4:08:41>> But the current requirement is you have

4:08:43to have a part-time social worker.

4:08:45>> Correct.

4:08:46>> How much would that cost a month?

4:08:48>> I haven't even looked at it, to be

4:08:49honest with you.

4:08:50>> Oh, thank you.

4:08:51Um do we, the city, have any idea how

4:08:54much that might cost per month?

4:08:59>> I think a social worker makes 40 to

4:09:0060,000. It just depends, you know.

4:09:03>> A year?

4:09:04>> Mhm.

4:09:04>> Okay, I understood. I just wanted a

4:09:06ballpark figure. And um

4:09:10>> If I may answer your question,

4:09:12um

4:09:13our social worker that we pay for with

4:09:15block grant, um that's with KPD is about

4:09:1896,000

4:09:20and that's full on uh benefits and a

4:09:22full-time social worker. So, if you just

4:09:25divided that in half, it could be

4:09:26upwards of $48,000 for Armor of God,

4:09:29potentially.

4:09:31>> So, uh your original um

4:09:34number that you gave me

4:09:36still sounds accurate. You Armor of God

4:09:39needs an income of $25,000

4:09:42a month

4:09:43>> Mhm.

4:09:44>> to sustain these operations long-term.

4:09:46>> Correct.

4:09:47>> And it's an almost entirely dependent on

4:09:50that thrift store.

4:09:51>> Well, a lot of it is, but we're we were

4:09:53answering a call um that just got thrown

4:09:56on us 3 months ago. We we weren't even

4:09:58in this conversation 3 months ago.

4:10:00>> Right. Understood.

4:10:01>> So, we're we're answering a call based

4:10:04on um we started that thrift store to be

4:10:06able to do this eventually.

4:10:09Uh we don't want to go on there and just

4:10:10do it haphazardly.

4:10:12And really, we don't want to do it

4:10:13reactively. Um

4:10:15after all this is kind of settled down,

4:10:19um what we've talked about is like

4:10:21why do we why do we want to come in here

4:10:23and

4:10:25try to do this with the city that's not

4:10:27wanting to try to do it with us. So, I'm

4:10:29asking the most of all tonight, I'm

4:10:32asking, do you want to partner with

4:10:34Armor of God? Have we not What have we

4:10:36not done or what do we need to do to get

4:10:39a seat at the table to be a team Colleen

4:10:42player?

4:10:43Cuz that's what we're trying to do.

4:10:44We're we're we're having these meetings,

4:10:46we're doing the things that we're doing,

4:10:48but we're really not getting the

4:10:49opportunity to bring you what we have

4:10:52planned and to see if it's even valuable

4:10:54to you.

4:10:56Y'all Y'all earmarked $200,000 that

4:10:58doesn't really touch what we have to

4:11:00spend,

4:11:01you know, um

4:11:02but we're still here.

4:11:05We're still answering the call,

4:11:07but we're asking, what do we have to do

4:11:09for y'all to be on our team, too?

4:11:12And that's the question.

4:11:13>> But the the bottom line is Armor of God

4:11:17needs an income of $25,000

4:11:20a month to sustain operations as

4:11:23envisioned.

4:11:24And

4:11:26at least 75 to 80% of that has to come

4:11:29from the thrift store currently.

4:11:32>> Thrift store, churches, donations.

4:11:36>> Donations, yes.

4:11:36>> All of those things.

4:11:37>> I I just find it hard Okay, thank you.

4:11:41>> Council Member Kendrick.

4:11:49>> Uh

4:11:50I'm I'm going to just kind of carry on

4:11:52from uh

4:11:54what Council Member um Bass um asked.

4:11:58Um

4:12:00>> [snorts]

4:12:00>> he he he he was talking about the thrift

4:12:03store.

4:12:05Um

4:12:06>> [clears throat]

4:12:08>> you say team Colleen.

4:12:11Have you done everything that's possible

4:12:16for you to become

4:12:21an active homeless shelter? Have you

4:12:24done all of the necessary

4:12:27>> [clears throat]

4:12:27>> documentation?

4:12:29>> What documentation you asking about?

4:12:32>> Uh first, have you changed from what you

4:12:36was

4:12:37as a as a youth

4:12:41sports 501c2

4:12:46to being for a homeless shelter? Have

4:12:48you changed those declarations and all

4:12:51of that?

4:12:51>> Yes, sir, we did that in September.

4:12:54>> Okay. Um have you

4:12:56So, with most of that, that comes a

4:12:59board meeting of your board folks. And

4:13:02do you have that documentation?

4:13:05>> We have minutes. And yet and she has

4:13:07them.

4:13:08>> Okay.

4:13:10Also, on on top of that,

4:13:14um you said the property is selling for

4:13:17$700,000.

4:13:19>> Yes, sir.

4:13:20>> Do you know what it's listed for right

4:13:22now?

4:13:22>> 849

4:13:24or 899, I can't remember.

4:13:26>> I believe it's listed on Bell County for

4:13:28230.

4:13:30>> That's because he

4:13:33It's a value a Bell County evaluations.

4:13:36It's appraised for over 1.2 million.

4:13:39It's a 7,700 square foot building.

4:13:43>> Okay. And now, just in my looking at

4:13:48some documentation,

4:13:50can you tell me where the thrift store

4:13:53is registered at?

4:13:56>> Where it's registered at? It's under the

4:13:57AOG project.

4:14:00Bell County.

4:14:01>> Okay.

4:14:03Council,

4:14:04I'll come back to that.

4:14:05>> Yes, sir.

4:14:06>> Council member Brown.

4:14:10>> I find it funny that we we have not

4:14:13asked these questions to anybody else.

4:14:15I've never seen another applicant trying

4:14:17to do anything that sat up here and got

4:14:19drilled this hard. We have approved

4:14:21millions of dollars today without asking

4:14:22half of the number of questions or being

4:14:24so difficult or aggressive about it. I

4:14:27have the floor.

4:14:28Um so, what we should be asking is what

4:14:31can we do to try to help facilitate

4:14:33making sure this is open because this is

4:14:36a council that paid $300,000

4:14:38to a comedy club that has now been a

4:14:41vacant building for 3 years.

4:14:44To a comedy club.

4:14:48Excuse me, please pause my time because

4:14:50Mayor, you just yelled at me for for

4:14:52talking.

4:14:54And and we should be fair and

4:14:56consistent.

4:14:56>> You're right, ma'am, but I do not holler

4:14:58at you. Please let us speak.

4:15:01>> I appreciate it. Thank you, because I'm

4:15:02tired of people thinking that they have

4:15:05a one-way rule around here.

4:15:07>> Okay, could we please stay with

4:15:08discussion on stay on topic, please?

4:15:11Please, council.

4:15:13Stay on topic.

4:15:17>> I will eat my time and say you want to

4:15:18be respectful, and then I will do the

4:15:20same for you.

4:15:22So, the question should be what can we

4:15:25be doing to help facilitate this,

4:15:27because we know we're running out of

4:15:28options. This is the whole reason why I

4:15:30asked for this to come back now, so it

4:15:32wasn't December and we were at the very

4:15:34last second and and we were trying to

4:15:36figure out what to do. I really don't

4:15:38give a how you're going to pay your

4:15:39bills, as long as you pay your bills.

4:15:41>> Okay.

4:15:42>> We There's nothing in the governing

4:15:43standards against me cursing.

4:15:47>> I apologize. This is not what I want to

4:15:49be fighting back and forth about. Okay.

4:15:52I'm We're going to We're going to take a

4:15:54break.

4:15:54>> Thank you.

4:15:55>> Take a break.

4:16:03Okay. Uh we'll call the meeting back to

4:16:04order.

4:16:07And um

4:16:12everything is

4:16:13calm down now.

4:16:15Give the floor back to um council member

4:16:19Brown.

4:16:20>> Thank you.

4:16:22Thank you. So,

4:16:24>> [sighs]

4:16:24>> let me

4:16:25pick up where I left off, but change my

4:16:27verbiage a little bit. Okay.

4:16:30I [snorts] do not believe it is the

4:16:31responsibility of the city council to

4:16:34try to determine how organizations are

4:16:36going to pay their bills.

4:16:38If we would like to see a budget and a

4:16:42business plan prior to making a

4:16:44decision, I think that is what we need

4:16:47to say. Not stand here and expect you to

4:16:50give us

4:16:51every answer on the spot without uh

4:16:54having you giving you the ability to

4:16:56prepare for that in advance. Staff at

4:16:59least has the the ability to give a

4:17:01presentation and reasonably expect some

4:17:04of the questions that we're going to

4:17:05ask.

4:17:07So, [snorts] if we're going to move

4:17:08forward and want to know how you intend

4:17:11to pay the bills and make sure that you

4:17:13can

4:17:14do all of that stuff, then perhaps what

4:17:16we need to do is request a business plan

4:17:20and a budget that we can review before

4:17:22we make any decisions on financing.

4:17:25And I think the other thing where I was

4:17:27going with this is that we also need to

4:17:29decide

4:17:31how we move forward. We're running out

4:17:33of time and so far your organization is

4:17:37the only one who has come forward and

4:17:39said we're willing to try to help, we're

4:17:41willing to change direction or do

4:17:43whatever it is that needs to be done.

4:17:46If it's going to be at the Medical Drive

4:17:48property, which I understand you've

4:17:49already invested some money into

4:17:53um anticipating that, then

4:17:56uh my question for the city attorney is

4:17:59I know we just approved a CUP.

4:18:02Could we bring that back as long as

4:18:04somebody from the prevailing side of it

4:18:06brought it back to reconsider the terms

4:18:09of that conditional use permit?

4:18:12>> [snorts]

4:18:13>> Your governing standards um

4:18:16your governing standards say that a

4:18:17motion to reconsider has to be done at

4:18:19the same meeting immediately after a

4:18:21motion, and they don't allow for a

4:18:24motion to reconsider at a future at a

4:18:26future meeting.

4:18:27>> How [snorts] would we be able to bring

4:18:28it back to reconsider the the terms in

4:18:31that CUP?

4:18:35>> There's not a process in accordance with

4:18:37your governing standards.

4:18:40The 12 months so if the for you to bring

4:18:43it back, you can't there's not a motion

4:18:44to reconsider under your governing

4:18:45standards after the meeting that you

4:18:47take the action for an applicant to

4:18:50bring back something they have to wait

4:18:5112 months to bring back the same request

4:18:53if it failed to be approved by council.

4:18:58Under the code of ordinances is where

4:19:00that is.

4:19:02Like any other zoning case.

4:19:04>> So even if So if it's not a motion to

4:19:06reconsider, if it's just a motion to do

4:19:09to discuss or to to make changes,

4:19:12I don't know that that necessarily is a

4:19:14motion to reconsider if we're going to

4:19:16change conditions.

4:19:18Um

4:19:20that that maybe had not been fully

4:19:22explained or thought out. We have to

4:19:24have some sort of way to be able to do

4:19:25that.

4:19:28>> Your time is up, Council member Brown.

4:19:31>> Uh there's not anything currently under

4:19:33your rules right now. I understand what

4:19:35you're saying.

4:19:37Um the rules are in place. I I mean the

4:19:39rules appear to me to be in place to to

4:19:42not do that very thing. They want you to

4:19:43make your decision and not be

4:19:46reconsidering things that you've already

4:19:48made decisions on.

4:19:49>> So that's my question to the four

4:19:51council members.

4:19:52>> is up, ma'am.

4:19:53>> Oh, I thought you would called my name

4:19:55again. Okay.

4:19:56>> No,

4:19:56your time is up. Um

4:19:59Um any other questions, comments?

4:20:03Council member Brown Council member

4:20:05Bess?

4:20:08>> Uh so to finish our conversation,

4:20:13um

4:20:14I would like to see a detailed budget

4:20:18and a business plan.

4:20:20Uh and for that's number one. And number

4:20:23two, um based on the numbers,

4:20:26uh Armor of God needs an income of

4:20:29$300,000

4:20:30per year

4:20:32uh to operate

4:20:34um according to your goals.

4:20:38And that does not count a part-time

4:20:42social worker, which is an absolute

4:20:44requirement according to the conditional

4:20:46use permit. Uh that does not count the

4:20:50masonry fence, which is a requirement.

4:20:53Uh and uh it is operating with a

4:20:57complete volunteer staff

4:21:00uh

4:21:01beside the um part-time social worker.

4:21:06Um does that does that add up?

4:21:08>> Well, the volunteer staff is not

4:21:10complete volunteer staff. We will have

4:21:11security guards that we will pay

4:21:1412 hours a day.

4:21:16>> And that would come out of the 300

4:21:17>> Yes, sir. Out of the 21

4:21:18>> The bottom line is your your what you

4:21:20need is an income of $300,000

4:21:22[clears throat]

4:21:23a year.

4:21:24>> Yes, sir. And we've commit we we've got

4:21:26all of that we've submitted all that.

4:21:29The the problem is is that we stopped at

4:21:32the CUP because it's just not feasible

4:21:34for us to be

4:21:36available to get this done with that CUP

4:21:39the way that was stated. I did go meet

4:21:41with staff right after the CUP was

4:21:43stated to make sure the verbage was

4:21:46correct. Had a wonderful meeting. But

4:21:48when you go into engineering and

4:21:51concrete walls and things like that,

4:21:52that takes a

4:21:54Excuse me. That takes a lot longer.

4:21:56And it just

4:21:59it feels like

4:22:01that we're not wanted to do this.

4:22:04Honestly, what just on my side of the

4:22:06things because

4:22:08we have a a shelter right now that

4:22:10touches a school

4:22:13and they're not required to have a

4:22:15fence.

4:22:16We have a shelter that touches

4:22:19a daycare.

4:22:22They're not required to have a fence.

4:22:25We

4:22:26we don't understand what what warrants

4:22:29all this extra

4:22:31for us to to try to take care of an I

4:22:34mean, I don't think Medical Drive is a

4:22:36perfect location either, but where is a

4:22:39perfect location for an house shelter?

4:22:42I don't know. If you tell me, I'll go

4:22:44look at it. I've looked all over the

4:22:45city of Killeen.

4:22:47>> Well, the the reason for the conditional

4:22:50use permit

4:22:51is because the Planning and Zoning

4:22:54Commission

4:22:55and the City Council

4:22:57uh listened to residents.

4:23:00Uh we listened to parents at the school.

4:23:04Uh and we listened

4:23:05to

4:23:07uh Mr. Corbin discussing the issues

4:23:10related to the Sonic and the Pizza Hut.

4:23:13Um that's why a conditional use permit

4:23:16exists

4:23:17is because we the City Council and the

4:23:19Planning and Zoning Commission

4:23:22uh listened to residents, businesses,

4:23:24and parents at the school.

4:23:25>> Okay.

4:23:27Does a $30,000 fence work better than a

4:23:30$8,000 fence?

4:23:32>> My understanding is um that the masonry

4:23:36fence is what the city recommended. Now,

4:23:39I know I have an 8-ft metal fence around

4:23:42my property

4:23:44uh and it costs considerably less than

4:23:46the 30,000. Uh but uh we the City

4:23:49Council and Planning and Zoning

4:23:52uh you know, we listen to the staff on

4:23:54that.

4:23:54>> I understand.

4:23:58>> Thank you, Mayor.

4:24:00>> Councilman McKendricks.

4:24:09>> Yes.

4:24:10Uh Ms. Mescher.

4:24:13>> [clears throat]

4:24:20>> Yes, sir.

4:24:21>> Um Ms. Mescher,

4:24:22I actually talked with you today in

4:24:25reference to another

4:24:28building that we required to put up a

4:24:33a wall because they was right next to

4:24:37um

4:24:38um a residential area and that building

4:24:41was a restaurant. Is that correct?

4:24:44>> Yes, sir.

4:24:45>> And um that applicant did not like that

4:24:50either, did they?

4:24:52>> No.

4:24:53>> Um but in order to get moved along, I

4:24:57actually visited that location today and

4:25:00the fence is uh the concrete wall is up

4:25:04um so they can continue on their

4:25:07business.

4:25:08>> Yes, sir.

4:25:09>> Correct?

4:25:09>> Yes, sir.

4:25:10>> Thank you, Ms. Mashburn.

4:25:11>> You're welcome.

4:25:13>> [clears throat]

4:25:13>> Now, we we we we get back to um I'm not

4:25:17trying to bash anybody or anything like

4:25:20that. Um but what I'm I'm here to do is

4:25:25to ensure that everything that you say

4:25:28that you have done has been done. Um

4:25:33>> And then you just sat here and you said

4:25:37a intern.

4:25:39Well, a homeless shelter a intern isn't

4:25:43a licensed professional. Am I correct?

4:25:46>> You're very correct. Yes, sir.

4:25:47>> So, that would not fit for intern to

4:25:51serve in that spot when you need a

4:25:54licensed

4:25:56person. Am I correct?

4:25:58>> Correct.

4:25:59>> Okay.

4:26:01Um

4:26:02When did a homeless shelter become a

4:26:04business?

4:26:06Cuz we're not even in a business

4:26:08district. We're in a R3 district, a

4:26:12residential district. It's not a

4:26:15business district. A restaurant's a

4:26:17business district.

4:26:19>> And I'mma ask you a question, sir.

4:26:22Um when you're conducting the business

4:26:25of a homeless shelter, you must a

4:26:27business.

4:26:27>> Wait. Wait. Hold on. Can I finish? I'll

4:26:29let you finish.

4:26:30You must come up with an actual plan.

4:26:34So, just like a business,

4:26:36you have to come up with a plan. And

4:26:38right now, your plan has a lot of flaws

4:26:41in it.

4:26:42>> Have you heard my plan?

4:26:43>> Yes.

4:26:44>> Where'd you hear my plan?

4:26:46>> On several news stations.

4:26:48>> That's my plan?

4:26:50>> And you just said right in here that the

4:26:53boys and girls uh uh girl scout with

4:26:56with Michael Boyd. So, you just changed

4:26:58your plan again. Right in here, sir. You

4:27:01just changed your plan.

4:27:03>> I didn't change my plan. I tried to

4:27:05change because you gave me a CUP.

4:27:08I never changed my plan. I changed

4:27:11locations.

4:27:13You've never heard my plan.

4:27:15>> Yes, I have, sir.

4:27:16>> No, you haven't, sir.

4:27:17>> Nope. I got no further questions. I'm

4:27:19not going to get into the back.

4:27:21>> Okay. Um

4:27:23Um Ms. McNew, do you have anything else?

4:27:26>> I do not.

4:27:27>> Thank you, Ms. Horne.

4:27:30Thank you. You You had You have You

4:27:32spoke twice.

4:27:34>> I I would like to request either

4:27:37permission to to just ask one or two

4:27:40more things and ask a question or to

4:27:43suspend the rules

4:27:45because I don't think that this is a

4:27:47conversation, Mayor, that should be had

4:27:50>> That is

4:27:50>> with two minutes, two times.

4:27:52>> Well, that is up to the council.

4:27:57That is up consensus of the council if

4:28:00you want to suspend the rules.

4:28:05We We'll move forward. Um

4:28:10Okay.

4:28:11>> You got three to suspend.

4:28:13>> Hm?

4:28:13>> Is there a point?

4:28:14>> Yes, yes.

4:28:16>> It's three?

4:28:16>> Yes, sir.

4:28:17>> Okay. All right.

4:28:19>> Thank you.

4:28:21So, I I will point out that

4:28:26in the CUP, we did not say licensed

4:28:29social worker.

4:28:31It's as a social worker.

4:28:33Uh

4:28:34many organizations that that utilize

4:28:37social workers

4:28:39will use the interns because they're

4:28:41still under some form of supervision.

4:28:43They still have to go back and report

4:28:45those things. I do not recall us saying

4:28:47licensed social worker in that

4:28:51Um

4:28:53we never gave as much as we gave FYC a

4:28:57hard time,

4:28:58we never pushed it to this level of

4:29:01demand of showing us

4:29:03every penny. Even this year that this

4:29:07was the first time I saw any real

4:29:09pushback from the council about it.

4:29:11And and even in that it wasn't as it

4:29:15didn't come across even as harsh as what

4:29:17I've heard here lately.

4:29:20So, then my my question and my challenge

4:29:22is to the other council members who

4:29:25who said, "No, we we will only do it if

4:29:27we do these particular items without a

4:29:31second thought,

4:29:32then what is your solution?

4:29:34You have a lot of questions and keep

4:29:37saying I'm not going to bring a problem

4:29:38without a solution.

4:29:40So, then for those council members who

4:29:42were completely opposed to just giving

4:29:45them the zoning that would allow this by

4:29:47rights

4:29:48and impose all of these rules on it,

4:29:51what is your solution? Because there has

4:29:54to be one somewhere.

4:29:56The council came to a vote of the

4:29:59majority. You may not like the way the

4:30:00vote came out, but there was a vote to

4:30:02say we're going to support them and

4:30:04we're going to support them with money.

4:30:06And we're not and it wasn't even a

4:30:08request from the from the organization

4:30:10to support them with money. They just

4:30:12asked for our support.

4:30:15That doesn't mean financing them.

4:30:17And there's been so much pushback and

4:30:19opposition. So if you're that opposed,

4:30:22and it's because you don't like this

4:30:24organization, then where are you

4:30:25stepping up?

4:30:27What is your plan?

4:30:29What is your solution?

4:30:32That's all I have.

4:30:34>> Okay.

4:30:37All right. Is there any um

4:30:40other discussion on this we'll move on

4:30:41Madam Secretary.

4:30:44Thank you, sir.

4:30:52Madam City Secretary.

4:30:54>> Next item.

4:30:56Number 21, DS-26-095.

4:31:01Discuss and consider city council

4:31:02meeting dates in December 2026.

4:31:12>> City Manager.

4:31:13>> [clears throat]

4:31:25>> Yes.

4:31:27>> Um Council, real quick, just on that

4:31:28last item, staff had asked for a motion

4:31:30of direction for what to do with that

4:31:32200,000 that was earmarked for Armor of

4:31:34God.

4:31:35>> Okay. A motion of direction Council?

4:31:42We'll go back uh Council member Brown.

4:31:45>> So I would move to direct staff to

4:31:48continue to hold that uh

4:31:51so that once we have a workable

4:31:53solution, we have that available for

4:31:56whatever that organization happens to

4:31:58be.

4:32:01>> Yes, could you repeat that Council

4:32:02member Brown?

4:32:03>> So I I would move to direct staff to

4:32:06continue to hold that 200,000

4:32:09for the purpose of of homelessness

4:32:12funding so that whenever there is a

4:32:15solution, whoever whatever organization

4:32:17that happens to be, we at least have

4:32:20that earmarked and set aside for that

4:32:22that assistance.

4:32:25>> Okay, motion on the floor to a second.

4:32:27Council member McKimble.

4:32:30>> Yes, I second.

4:32:32>> Okay, open for discussion.

4:32:34>> Just

4:32:35discussion.

4:32:36>> [clears throat]

4:32:38>> Council member

4:32:39>> No, point of order.

4:32:42>> Okay, Council member Bass.

4:32:46>> City Manager, that $200,000 is from last

4:32:50year's budget, correct?

4:32:52>> Yes.

4:32:52>> I I believe Judith, is that correct?

4:32:54>> Yes, that's

4:32:55excess fund balance from FY 26.

4:32:58>> Yes, it's it's uh

4:33:00excess money from FY 26. If we can get a

4:33:04confirmation of that.

4:33:08>> Uh yes, the $200,000 were uh allocated

4:33:11on fiscal year 2026.

4:33:13Uh but are you guys also going to see it

4:33:16again uh on the uh carry forward budget

4:33:19amendment because we're going to bring

4:33:20it from 26 to 27. And it is from excess

4:33:23fund balance, yes.

4:33:24>> And it'll be put into the 27 budget, is

4:33:27that correct?

4:33:27>> Yes, we will uh in the next uh

4:33:29budget amendment that you see here.

4:33:31>> Thank you.

4:33:31>> Yes, sir.

4:33:32>> And uh City Manager, uh we did not

4:33:35earmark that specifically for Armor of

4:33:38God. We earmarked it for possible

4:33:41homelessness um

4:33:43outreach and shelter support.

4:33:46>> I believe it Yes, go ahead, Tiffany.

4:33:47>> Um thank you. Um originally, um and

4:33:50there was some confusion in the tape. We

4:33:52had to roll it back and and look just to

4:33:54be sure, but originally it was earmarked

4:33:57for Armor of God. Um what I hear tonight

4:34:00is Council member Brown

4:34:03unearmarking it for a specific

4:34:05organization,

4:34:06but having the money there and held for

4:34:09homeless services.

4:34:10>> Is that correct?

4:34:14>> Yes, you may.

4:34:15>> Thank you. Uh

4:34:16yes, that's correct and that is in line

4:34:19with the way that it was worded in our

4:34:21budget amendments and that's why I

4:34:23wanted to word it that way tonight.

4:34:25>> Thank you. Thank you very much.

4:34:27>> Thank you. Thank you.

4:34:29>> I don't I don't recall it being

4:34:30designated to Armor of God.

4:34:33>> I I did go back and and review the the

4:34:36tape and the motion of direction was to

4:34:38earmark it for Armor of God.

4:34:42>> Mhm. Okay.

4:34:45>> Okay.

4:34:46>> [clears throat]

4:34:46>> Um

4:34:47any more discussion? Councilmember Best?

4:34:50>> No, sir. Thank you.

4:34:51>> Okay.

4:34:52Uh could you Councilmember Kimball?

4:34:55>> Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Um I'm speaking in

4:34:56support of Council Councilwoman's

4:35:00Brown's motion

4:35:01because I think there is an opportunity

4:35:04if we can engage

4:35:08we can engage organizations that can

4:35:11help us with emergency emergency shelter

4:35:14between December 31st and say March

4:35:1730th, for example, or or whatever how

4:35:19long that $200,000 can can

4:35:22could could could go for

4:35:24but that would probably take some

4:35:26coordination or solicitation on any

4:35:29businesses that want to assist us in our

4:35:33emergency shelter

4:35:35you know, after December 31st cuz we're

4:35:37covered between now and December 31st.

4:35:39>> Yes.

4:35:39>> But but there may be an opportunity

4:35:43contractually. I think we have a pending

4:35:44contract if we can if the if the

4:35:47organization wanted to extend that

4:35:48contract uh

4:35:51if that $200,000 allocated for them.

4:35:53>> Yes, there is language in the agreement

4:35:56that allows for

4:35:57um

4:35:58there to be an amendment to the terms of

4:36:01the agreement and as long as that's

4:36:03agreeable by both sides, that could be a

4:36:06possibility.

4:36:07>> I'll be speaking and I will be voting

4:36:09for Councilwoman's

4:36:12Brown's slate motion and hopefully we

4:36:14can get that resolved to take care of

4:36:16the winter months for our unhoused

4:36:18population. Thank you.

4:36:20>> Okay, if there's no other

4:36:21there's no further discussion, uh

4:36:24City Attorney, would you repeat the

4:36:25motion, please?

4:36:30>> The motion of direction that I have that

4:36:31I have on the table is to continue to

4:36:33hold this $200,000 for the purposes of

4:36:36homeless services funding.

4:36:38>> Okay, all in favor signify by yes, all

4:36:41all opposed, no.

4:36:47The motion passed

4:36:48>> Thank you.

4:36:49>> 5-0.

4:36:51Thank you, Ms. McNair.

4:36:53Okay, City Attorney.

4:36:55Secretary.

4:36:59>> Item 21,

4:37:01DS-26-095,

4:37:05discuss and consider City Council

4:37:07meeting dates in December 2026.

4:37:10>> All right.

4:37:12Ms. Wilson.

4:37:13>> Good evening, Council. This item is on

4:37:16the agenda purely to discuss our

4:37:18December Council meeting dates. They are

4:37:19currently scheduled for December 1st and

4:37:2215th. In the past, Council has sometimes

4:37:25decided to shift those dates around due

4:37:27to the holidays, so we just wanted to

4:37:28give the Council opportunity to have

4:37:30that discussion.

4:37:38>> Okay, um

4:37:41Council, Councilman Barr.

4:37:45>> I'm good with the 1st and the 15th of

4:37:47December, personally.

4:37:50Thank you.

4:37:51>> Okay, Councilman Brown.

4:37:56>> And uh how we historically will do this

4:37:59and knowing that that we have a lot of

4:38:02staff who wants to be able to spend time

4:38:04with their family around the holidays.

4:38:06It is the one time of year council

4:38:08members can really know that we have

4:38:11some time for us to travel and spend

4:38:12time with our families. I would actually

4:38:14move to make those meetings on December

4:38:171st and December 8th for our two

4:38:21meetings in December. So, that would be

4:38:23my motion.

4:38:24>> Okay, this motion on the floor by

4:38:26Council member Brown. Is there a second?

4:38:29Council member Kimball.

4:38:32>> I second.

4:38:33I second Council member Brown's motion.

4:38:35>> Okay, second by Council member Kimball.

4:38:38Any discussion?

4:38:40Council member Bass.

4:38:42>> Um city manager does um having two city

4:38:46council meetings one week apart

4:38:50um is that

4:38:51um doable for the staff? Does it create

4:38:55an undue hardship? Uh does it is it

4:38:57better than the 15th cuz now more people

4:39:00can take vacation?

4:39:02>> It really doesn't matter to staff as

4:39:04long as we're planning it early on. Um

4:39:06we can adjust accordingly.

4:39:07>> And uh in the past have we done it

4:39:11uh the first and then the week later?

4:39:12>> Yeah. Yeah, it's it's been a couple

4:39:14different ways, but we're happy to

4:39:15accommodate as long as we can plan it

4:39:17early.

4:39:17>> Thank you very much.

4:39:18>> Yes, we have done it um

4:39:20two weeks in a row. Matter of fact,

4:39:22that's what we

4:39:23in the past couple years we've have

4:39:25have done that.

4:39:27Two weeks in a row. I mean a week

4:39:29on each other.

4:39:31Okay. Uh Council member Kimball.

4:39:34>> Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Mr. Mayor, what

4:39:35day will the new city manager when will

4:39:37she start?

4:39:38>> I believe that's November the 9th.

4:39:39>> November 9th, yes.

4:39:40>> November 9th. So,

4:39:42one, two. Okay, I'll just count them

4:39:44council meetings we may have with with

4:39:46the new manager.

4:39:47>> Okay.

4:39:48Thank you.

4:39:48>> Mhm.

4:39:49Um

4:39:51Okay, if there uh

4:39:53there's no discussion all in favor

4:39:58signify by saying yes.

4:40:00All opposed, no.

4:40:07Motion passed 5 to 0.

4:40:09Thank you, counselor.

4:40:11Uh

4:40:12city secretary.

4:40:16>> Item 22,

4:40:18council member requests for future

4:40:20agenda items. RQ-26-007,

4:40:26establishing notification to city

4:40:28council protocol.

4:40:29>> Okay, Mayor Pro Tem, the floor is yours.

4:40:35>> Thank you.

4:40:36Excuse [clears throat] me. A while back

4:40:38I submitted a request for establishing a

4:40:41protocol and it's back in September

4:40:43for communication process to ensure uh

4:40:45consistency in the communications. Um

4:40:48there are a number of processes that we

4:40:51had talked about, we identified during

4:40:52our governing standards and a charter

4:40:55review that there were no processes in

4:40:57place to follow up and so I submitted a

4:40:58few of those. This is just the first one

4:41:00on the the table. So, I request that

4:41:02council itself establish a protocol as a

4:41:05governing expectation rather than asking

4:41:07the staff to design it. I submitted on

4:41:09the 21st to the council for review a um

4:41:12recommendation for a simple

4:41:14communication standard and I would like

4:41:16to just get your feedback on that. Um

4:41:18but basically it's to ensure that mayor

4:41:20and council receive timely consistent

4:41:22notices of significant city activities,

4:41:25events, recognitions, operational

4:41:27matters, and community engagements that

4:41:30uh may reasonably be of interest to the

4:41:32governing body or require council

4:41:34awareness.

4:41:36Um I do want to just make sure I'm on

4:41:37the record here that uh

4:41:41I wrote my statement here. Thank you.

4:41:43The [clears throat] objective is

4:41:44awareness, It's approval. And so, the

4:41:47idea is just for information purposes

4:41:49that there's a standard process for how

4:41:50we get our notifications. So, um my hope

4:41:53is that the council will adopt this for

4:41:55our

4:41:56standard processes for governing

4:41:57standards.

4:41:59That's all I've got.

4:42:03>> Okay. Uh now, is this something

4:42:07that you're asking for us to do now and

4:42:10you know, we're going to wait till

4:42:11December? Just

4:42:13>> I submitted it for review on the 21st. I

4:42:15would like to know if the council had

4:42:16any feedback on this submission. Um

4:42:18other than that, if not, then I would

4:42:20make a motion to just adopt it. I mean,

4:42:22it's very simple, but if there's any

4:42:24changes, I would obviously honor

4:42:25council's request.

4:42:26>> Council member Brown.

4:42:27>> [clears throat]

4:42:28>> Uh

4:42:29respectfully, pro tem, because this is

4:42:31an RQ item, we can't approve or adopt

4:42:34anything on it tonight or have

4:42:35discussion or feedback on it. But with

4:42:37that said, I would make a motion

4:42:41to uh move this forward for discussion

4:42:43on a future agenda um

4:42:46for I'll say the second meeting in

4:42:49November.

4:42:51>> Thank you for that.

4:42:52>> Okay.

4:42:54Uh is there a is there a second?

4:42:57Council member Bess.

4:42:59>> Oh, no, I had a discussion

4:43:00>> Okay. Mayor Pro Tem.

4:43:02>> So, thank you for I'd like a second

4:43:03bringing it back in November. Thank you.

4:43:06>> Okay.

4:43:07Um

4:43:08is there any discussion?

4:43:11Okay, Council member Bess.

4:43:14>> When it does come back, um

4:43:17I I I have it in writing, of course, but

4:43:21I would also like to see it um

4:43:24you know, in the slides when we discuss

4:43:26it again.

4:43:26>> Thank you, sir.

4:43:27>> Thank you.

4:43:28>> Okay. All in favor, if there's no other

4:43:31discussion,

4:43:32all in favor signify by yes, all

4:43:34opposed, no.

4:43:40Motion passed 5 to zero.

4:43:43Okay, now we will go into

4:43:47executive session.

4:43:50Uh DS-26-093

4:43:54discussion potential land purchase of

4:43:57KISD property for the purpose of

4:43:59affordable housing.

4:44:02Pursuant

4:44:04pursuant to the Texas Open Meeting Law

4:44:08Government Code 551

4:44:12.001

4:44:14the mayor now calls a closed meeting

4:44:16of the city council on the 20th day of

4:44:21October at

4:44:2310:17 p.m.

4:44:26>> [clears throat]

4:44:27>> Uh deliberating regarding real estate,

4:44:29the city council will discuss the

4:44:31purchase exchange exchange, lease, or

4:44:34value of real

4:44:36of real property

4:44:38if deliberation in an open meeting will

4:44:42have a detrimental effect on the

4:44:44position of the governmental body

4:44:47in negotiation

4:44:49with a third person. And this is item

4:44:52number 23 DS-23-093.

4:45:01We will now go into executive session.

4:45:37Okay.

4:45:45We closed uh

4:45:48executive session at 10:42.

4:45:52Uh there was no action taken.

4:45:55And council, we would move on to

4:46:02non [clears throat]

4:46:07citizen comments. Madam Secretary?

4:46:10>> Uh

4:46:13Tanisha Burson, you're not here, are

4:46:15you?

4:46:17No.

4:46:18Uh Jamie Carroll.

4:46:23>> Good evening, y'all.

4:46:24Uh I'm going

4:46:25>> ma'am.

4:46:26>> [clears throat]

4:46:26>> talk about two things. Um

4:46:28I noticed that obviously tonight the

4:46:30theme is consistency, so I'm going to

4:46:32I'm going to run with that one.

4:46:35A lot of boards and commissions meet

4:46:36over the utilities meet building, but

4:46:40they're not getting the same access to

4:46:43Zoom. So, if anyone wanted to make

4:46:46public comment,

4:46:48that's even though the equipment's there

4:46:50ready to rock, it's not being utilized.

4:46:53Uh

4:46:54It's it does seem like not only from my

4:46:57perspective, but from other people I've

4:46:59talked to,

4:47:00we've got uh kind of two classes of the

4:47:03boards and commissions where

4:47:05seems like uh some of them are treated a

4:47:07little bit more on the up and up, and

4:47:09others are kind of forgotten, dismissed,

4:47:11disregarded. I just want to make sure

4:47:14that

4:47:15everyone is getting the same access

4:47:17across the board. I understand some of

4:47:19the boards uh

4:47:21do like where they're where they're

4:47:23currently meeting.

4:47:25However, it does prevent access to our

4:47:28citizens in general to be able to access

4:47:31those.

4:47:32Uh a lot of them aren't even streamed. I

4:47:35think we only have three of the boards

4:47:36that get live streamed. So, to even cut

4:47:40off the

4:47:41the Zoom access is like one more

4:47:43barrier.

4:47:44Another thing that lacks consistency

4:47:47and I did get a response about it was

4:47:50we're not even given a heads-up for some

4:47:53of these boards and commissions that our

4:47:54personal emails get used for those

4:47:57communications.

4:47:58Uh

4:47:59at the very least, if we're not going to

4:48:01have city Colleen emails

4:48:04for those interactions, a heads-up,

4:48:07"Hey, create an email that will only be

4:48:09used for this purpose."

4:48:11Uh

4:48:12just to be trying to be compliant and

4:48:14doing the right thing.

4:48:16I would never want to run into a

4:48:18situation where there is any kind of

4:48:20questionability on what may exist in my

4:48:23personal email on what I have sent or

4:48:25corresponded with

4:48:27maybe another board member on on

4:48:29something for an agenda item or one of

4:48:32the secretaries for any of the boards,

4:48:33anything like that. I understand the

4:48:35emails might be a little bit more

4:48:37problematic and expensive to overcome,

4:48:40but as far as the Zoom goes

4:48:43and getting that access expanded, we're

4:48:45already using the building that has that

4:48:48up and going. So, if that is something

4:48:50that could be looked at, especially as

4:48:53the city keeps growing. All right,

4:48:54that's

4:48:55good night.

4:48:56>> [laughter]

4:48:57>> Thank you. Thank you. Madam Secretary.

4:49:01>> No more speakers, Mr. Mayor.

4:49:03>> That's it. Okay.

4:49:05All right. Um

4:49:09There's no more from me.

4:49:15Okay.

4:49:17Council member Brown.

4:49:21>> I must stick to the rule.

4:49:23I'd like to [snorts] make a motion of

4:49:24direction that we bring back that the

4:49:27item for future discussion for

4:49:30consistency on Zoom throughout the the

4:49:33boards and commissions also.

4:49:35>> There's a motion direction um

4:49:38Is there a second?

4:49:43Now, Mayor Pro Tem.

4:49:44>> I can second that.

4:49:46>> Okay, any discussion?

4:49:49No discussion. Um

4:49:51all in favor signify by yes, all opposed

4:49:54no.

4:50:00Motion passed 5-0.

4:50:02Okay.

4:50:03Uh Council, I need a motion to adjourn.

4:50:08Council member, who did it?

4:50:11Council member Brown.

4:50:13>> Move to adjourn.

4:50:15>> Okay, second. Uh Council member

4:50:17Kendricks.

4:50:18All in favor?

4:50:19>> I.

4:50:23Yes.

4:50:23>> Meeting's adjourned.