2026-10-05 - City Council and Planning and Zoning Commission Joint Meeting

00:02Okay, it is now five o'clock on October the 5th, 226th.

00:08I call to special York City Council, Planning and Zoing Commission meeting to order.

00:16Council Member Moon is present.

00:25>> As I'm in commission, all commissioners are present with the exception of

00:30Commissioner Jones, Chair Jones.

00:37>> This meeting, clarified as a work session meeting.

00:44This type of meeting, pursuant to the city governing standards,

00:51is intended to be informational in nature.

00:54No formal action is planned for tonight.

00:58All agenda items are worded as discussion items only.

01:04However, council members may make a motion of direction to the interim city manager.

01:11Okay, Madam Secretary, excuse me.

01:18We'll stand and say the invocation.

01:28Father, we thank you for this day.

01:31This is the day you've made.

01:33We ask for your wisdom, your guidance upon this meeting.

01:37We thank you for the planning and zoning commissioners and the city council.

01:44In Jesus' name we pray, amen.

01:46>> Amen.

01:47>> Say the pledge of allegiance.

01:52>> I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and

01:57to the republic for which it stands, one nation, under God,

02:02indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.

02:14>> Okay, again, this session is being held for informational purposes only.

02:20>> Madam Secretary, first discussion item.

02:25>> First item is citizen's comments on agenda items.

02:31We have two speakers.

02:33Speaker one is Michael Fornino.

02:41>> Good evening, sir.

02:51>> DS26086, expectations for planning and zoning committee members.

02:57Mr. Mayor, Mayor Pro Tem and my council representative failed to respond to my

03:03concerns about this over the weekend, which was full of an obscene amount of

03:08evidence as to what I'm gonna bring forward, so it's not in dispute, cannot be denied.

03:14I expressed my reservations, concerns, and objections to Mr.

03:19Ken Wilkerson being on this board and as a representative of the city in any capacity.

03:23Especially given his record in the past.

03:26Past is prologue.

03:28This past weekend, evidence of which you have and are yet to address.

03:33Mr. Wilkerson took to social media and made several racially charged and

03:39even racist comments and even dragged me, I don't have Facebook.

03:43I do not have social media.

03:45Had disparaging remarks to be made about me.

03:48So that was over the weekend.

03:50He'd had officially the position for all of two days.

03:55And here we go again.

03:57As I said my email, this man does not need to be here.

04:00He needs to be removed for those purposes.

04:03Every time he has a position of authority or leadership,

04:06he has demonstrated failure.

04:08That is not in dispute either.

04:11I will remind the council, there's at least two of you here this evening,

04:14that were signatories or approving of his formal public and on the record,

04:22letter of reprimand for his conduct for which he later resigned from the city council.

04:27So, bad pick then, bad pick now.

04:31I will caution you that I have already contacted my attorney regarding this.

04:36Where there's a demonstrated pattern around here that is not,

04:42is in no way in dispute and cannot be disproven, okay?

04:46The man clearly has his own vision or whatever else, you're entitled to have that.

04:50And when you take it out on citizens and as a representative of the city in any capacity, unacceptable.

04:57What I find equally unacceptable is Mr. Mayor, especially your refusal and

05:03denial to deal with it or even acknowledge that the problem exists.

05:07Now, as to whether I pursue this as a separate action or otherwise, it will be dealt with.

05:18I encourage you to show some leadership, as I said earlier,

05:21put some steel in your spine and deal with it, be a leader, okay?

05:25I'm not making this stuff up, you have it in your emails.

05:28You're just pretending it doesn't exist.

05:32Because you may do it now, you may think that you're in control of that denial in this arena.

05:36But there is another arena where you will not, and you will be held accountable.

05:41I say again, remove Mr. Wilkerson before it's too late.

05:48>> Madam Secretary.

05:50>> Next speaker, Edward Frazee.

05:57>> Good evening, sir.

05:58>> Good evening, everyone, thank you, appreciate your patience with us.

06:03I'm here to talk about the data centers themselves.

06:07They provide a clear danger to any area that they come up in.

06:14They talk you all into saying that, you know, into making you all think that they're a good thing,

06:20that they'll bring economic growth and everything else, but they will.

06:25They're actually just trying to find a way to get into any community and just do their thing.

06:33They data mine, they take up resources, and right now, we're in an area that we cannot give

06:41up any extra resources to data centers, we cannot give up electricity, water, none of it.

06:49We just can't, you know, there's a rumor that Fort Hood is putting in a nuclear facility,

06:56and they are going to be using some water themselves for that.

07:01So to have that, and then to have a data center that takes millions of gallons per month of water,

07:10that is a resource, that's a loss of resource that we cannot support, period.

07:19The data centers, they also provide an environmental factor that is detrimental to us.

07:28They create a heat dome, and the heat dome, you know, when you start piling on data center

07:36after data center, that heat dome just gets bigger and bigger and bigger.

07:41I am a retired IT professional.

07:44I used to work in server rooms, and I can tell you that it takes a lot to keep a server room cool,

07:52and it's just that heat that's in the server room doesn't just magically disappear.

08:00It has to go somewhere.

08:01So when you cool it, that heat dissipates out into the environment and creates problems.

08:09You know, in a small server, it's not that big of a deal, but when you talk about acres

08:14of data centers, then it gets a really big problem.

08:19Plus with our neighbors, if we allow the data centers in here, they have noise that come along

08:24with them, and they have a light system that comes along with them, and they provide a lot

08:30of disturbance in that regard as well.

08:33So with that said, I think I'm pretty much done talking about the data centers,

08:37and I appreciate y'all's time.

08:39>> Thank you, sir.

08:42Madam Secretary?

08:43>> There are no more speakers.

08:45>> Okay. I'm going to move into our discussion session.

08:51Madam Secretary?

08:54>> Discussion items, number 1, DS-26-086, discuss council priorities, strategic direction,

09:05and expectations for the planning and zoning commissioners.

09:09>> Ms. Messia?

09:14>> Good afternoon, Mayor, council members, and planning and zoning commission members.

09:22I don't have a presentation or anything prepared for you tonight,

09:26so this is just an opportunity for the council and the commissioners to discuss vision

09:33and priorities.

09:35I'm happy to answer any questions you have, but I don't have a presentation tonight.

09:39>> Okay. Thank you, ma'am.

09:40Thank you, but we can go into the discussion.

09:44Councilmember Bass?

09:45>> Mayor, may I propose that we suspend the two times, two-minute rule,

09:51since this is kind of a discussion night?

09:55>> Yes, I'll --

09:59>> I'll make a motion that we do that, if that's okay.

10:03>> You may.

10:05>> I make a motion, Mayor, that we suspend the two times, two-minute rule

10:10for our meeting tonight, since it's kind of an open discussion.

10:14>> It's a motion by Councilmember Bass.

10:17Do you have a second?

10:18>> I second that.

10:19>> Second by Mayor Pro Tem.

10:21Is there any discussion?

10:24All in favor?

10:26Do you have any?

10:31Did you raise your hands again, Council?

10:34Okay, the motion passed 4-2.

10:43You -- 5-2.

10:49Okay. All right.

10:53So, we're into DS-26-086, discussion of council, priorities, strategic direction.

11:05Council, would you open it up to the council and open it up to the commissioners?

11:12Yes.

11:14>> Thank you.

11:15Thank you, everyone, for being here today.

11:17One of the reasons we had decided or was mentioned

11:20to call this meeting together was just the fact that we've not done this in the past,

11:25but there's an important distinction between city council and the roles of our commissioners,

11:31but they are very much important as we work together.

11:34So, not -- we're not here today to, of course, tell planning and zoning how to operate

11:39or anything like that, but our distinctions are different, but there are some things

11:42that we should be understanding that we do work the same together on.

11:46One being we represent the city of Colleen as a collective.

11:49Planning and zoning tends to be the first base that is seen by our customers, consumers,

11:55prospects that are viewing our city, and so it's extremely important that we have conversation

12:00about just how that works, what that looks like, and how we can make sure

12:04that we're putting our best foot forward in certain respects, and then making sure that we're

12:08on the same page when it comes to our goals and our achievements.

12:11So, as council, we set the goals and the vision and the direction for the city,

12:14and then your responsibilities, how do they tie into that?

12:17So, not only for us to make sure that we're on the same page as far

12:20as those responsibilities are concerned, but also

12:21that our public understands the delineation between them.

12:24Also, we're setting a new tone that we are one city, one goal, and so that is most important

12:28to me, which is also, I believe, because we voted on this unanimously,

12:31most important to council, so that's really the reason that we're here today.

12:38>> Yes, councilmember Brown.

12:43>> I think one of the things that the whole council should have no problem supporting is

12:50the fact that what we're really looking for is compliance with the 2040 plan.

12:56For me, this is where I may differ from some of my fellow council members,

13:01but for me, what I'm looking at is not just does it meet the big picture items,

13:05but does it meet all of the other details?

13:08So, when we have something in our 2040 comprehensive plan that's in a limited growth area

13:17where infrastructure should already be preexisting, I'm looking to make sure,

13:23is that infrastructure already there?

13:25That is an important part of the detail that I look at,

13:30that I would ask the commissioners to keep an eye on and see,

13:35is it feasible with the infrastructure that's there?

13:38If not, what would that cost be, who bears the cost of getting that infrastructure

13:43to that point, and then how does that tie into our bigger picture with that plan?

13:48So, I think that would first and foremost be what I'm asking of the commissioners is

13:53to give us that feedback from your perspective of how does that fit into the plan

13:59from where you see it, and what does that mean for infrastructure currently

14:03and further down the road?

14:06>> Okay.

14:10>> Mr. Mayor.

14:11>> Yes.

14:12>> Okay, so really quick, I also just wanted to throw it out there that I'd like to know

14:17where we see gaps in our policies and ordinances because they do overlap,

14:20and that conversation, we don't have to do it right now,

14:22but that is also an important part of that conversation.

14:24Thank you.

14:25>> Mr. Steel, Commissioner Seals.

14:30>> All right.

14:32So, obviously, I'm new to this side, right?

14:37But I've tried to consume as much of the documentation that was provided to us in our packets.

14:44So, I mean, I'm pretty familiar with FAR-V TIP-IT and those requirements and what we're supposed

14:50to as commissioners look at as far as the zoning changes,

14:56flam amendments, and those types of items.

14:59So, I don't know how much leeway we actually have to deviate from a lot of those areas,

15:07you know, in our decision making outside of the interpretations of the comp plan.

15:13And I guess bringing that up, I think that's one of the --

15:17I guess one of the directions we would need to understand is when we have that conflict

15:23or difference in interpretation of the comp plan, you know, what guidance do you have for us?

15:29Where should we go to seek that guidance?

15:32Because I think that that's going to -- and that's my personal past experience, right?

15:38I mean, just understanding what that comp plan says and applying it to very specific zonings,

15:45there's levels of difference of opinion of what that really means.

15:49So, I guess for me, one of the things that we're talking about the comp plan is what direction

15:55and guidance do you have is when we have those conflicts or differences.

15:59Whereas commissioners, do you want us to go?

16:01Do you want to be involved as far as an email or anything to try and do that?

16:07Or is it strictly through the city staff?

16:17>> I have staff to Mr. Cagle, Mrs. Olson or Ms. Messia.

16:25Kind of like chime in on that, please.

16:28I mean, because I think the direction -- if they have some questions about --

16:34and it seems -- if it's different from what they think, I think it should be the staff.

16:39Do you comment, please?

16:42>> So, the comprehensive plan has a number of different guidelines or parameters regarding

16:52things like fiscal sustainability and some of them are open for interpretation.

17:01And I'll defer to Ms. Clements on this, but zoning at the end of the day is discretionary.

17:06So, if the planning and zoning commission feels inclined to -- or an individual commissioner

17:12feels inclined to recommend disapproval on something, that's their discretion.

17:19>> Zoning is discretionary.

17:21Barbie Tippett was mentioned.

17:23Those are considerations that you're tasked with considering and weighing those things

17:28against each other.

17:29So, there is discretion involved in zoning.

17:35>> Okay.

17:37Yeah.

17:40And I know we have that ultimate decision.

17:41I just think as part of our decision-making, if we get a packet a week in advance and,

17:45you know, we're seeing, you know, staff recommendation to approve and we, you know, want to have

17:51a better understanding of why.

17:55I think that should be part of that.

17:56And I do have one question on the fiscal as far as the comp plan itself.

18:00So, I believe -- and I don't have it in front of me.

18:05But I thought there was a fiscal planning tool that was supposed to be built for future

18:14zoning that was part of the plan.

18:15I don't know if it was within the two-year or the five-year, like a fiscal analysis tool.

18:22Do we know if that's been created and finalized that we can actually see that or utilize that

18:28in part of our decision-making for zoning?

18:32Like revenue per acre decisions?

18:38>> No.

18:38Councilmember Naskin.

18:41>> We do have a fiscal impact model.

18:45If -- and there is a chapter in the comprehensive plan that discusses what level of revenue

18:53per acre is considered fiscally sustainable.

19:00And so, we do look at that when we look at, say, a proposed new residential development,

19:07what the revenue per acre would be relative to the cost of providing services to it.

19:13What exact level of revenue per acre is considered, quote, fiscally sustainable is the piece that

19:22I think is open to interpretation.

19:26There are three levels of -- three tiers described in the comp plan.

19:38Essentially what I would say is that achieving that level three, that $5,000 of revenue per

19:44acre is -- would require a high level of density, something that we don't typically see in

19:52suburban single-family developments.

19:56And so, if the council has a direction in terms of what level of revenue per acre is

20:06deemed to be fiscally sustainable, I think that's something we could look at more closely.

20:16>> Commissioner DeWitt, to answer your question.

20:17>> Yes.

20:18But is it -- can we have that analysis for the zoning's proposals as part of the package?

20:28Is that something we can start including in every zoning case, is to have a fiscal estimate

20:35of what projection that that zoning will provide per acre?

20:40>> Well, it doesn't make a lot of sense to say some of the issues we've just had, whether

20:46it's a suite in a strip center being rezoned from one commercial to another commercial

20:53that this is more for large scale development, particularly it was put into place for large

21:00scale residential development.

21:02>> Can we make that annotation for all large scale residential development that we have

21:07a fiscal analysis or fiscal estimate for that zoning?

21:11>> Yes.

21:16>> As part of the package, the presentation?

21:18>> I don't remember the last large scale residential development we had that came before.

21:22>> Featherline.

21:23>> Featherline.

21:24>> Yeah.

21:25>> This is the one that comes to mind, and we did do that for Featherline.

21:26>> Yeah.

21:28>> Yeah.

21:29>> I just haven't seen it on some previous ones, so moving forward that those types

21:33of zonings will include a fiscal analysis?

21:36>> Correct.

21:38>> Okay.

21:44>> I'm glad that the Council had the opportunity to meet with planning and zoning, but I don't

21:50want the Council, I can only speak for myself, to lose focus.

21:55You're separate from us.

21:56Our decisions may not agree.

21:59We may not agree, but we need you there from your perspective, and then when we get it,

22:05we may see things different, but it doesn't make it right or wrong.

22:09I just don't want you to think, in my opinion, that we're trying to control how you vote,

22:15what you vote, how it should be voted on, because that is not our place.

22:20We used to have control, and we gave that control up, and now this committee is there.

22:26So it goes backwards and forward.

22:28So going back to Mr. Seale's question, which was a great question, those are the things

22:34that I feel as a Council member with the tools that you need to make a sound decision.

22:41That is what we, the city, should provide to you.

22:45And then when it comes before us, if there is, we may see things different with the comprehensive

22:51plan because it's a working document.

22:54It's not even the ordinances, you know?

22:57There's that thing in line, but I don't want, just for me, for you to think that I feel

23:04or the Council will come across trying to tell you how to do your job.

23:10Because in that case, we wouldn't need you.

23:12We should be doing it ourselves.

23:15So I think how we better communicate is one thing.

23:18Yes, we should discuss that.

23:20But getting into the weeds about things like this, I do highly recommend that staff come

23:26up with some kind of book or plan on things and comprehensive plan that you may not understand.

23:32You could give them all your questions or things you may need in advance.

23:37And if they can meet that need, fine, if not, then fine.

23:41But I just don't want it to be a cookie cut answer for everything because that's not reality.

23:48And that's just my opinion, that you should work closely with staff.

23:53And when it gets to us, are we going to agree or are we going to disagree?

23:58And there should be a balance and you are our balance.

24:01Thank you.

24:03>> Anyone else on that?

24:09>> Yes, sir.

24:10>> I just want to say to the chair and planning and zoning commissioners, I watched the planning

24:19and zoning meeting where you all discussed the J.T. Hahn building over by St. Joseph

24:28Church and I am personally conflicted about that project, but your meeting was very helpful

24:39to me.

24:40To me, that was the perfect planning and zoning meeting that really laid out all of the issues

24:51related to this project.

24:53You had residents speak, you had businesses speak, you had the principal of the academy

24:59speak, you had great discussions and great input and the planning and zoning, I think

25:06it was a four to two vote, so not everybody on the planning and zoning agreed, but that

25:14planning and zoning meeting was very helpful to me, so thank you.

25:22>> Councilman Bass, thank you for that.

25:26Going back to item one, I didn't see it in the packet that we received today and I just

25:34wanted to know what is the strategic direction from the council, what are the expectations,

25:44what are the council's priorities so that we know and we can govern ourselves accordingly

25:49to that, if anyone can speak on that, please.

25:58>> That was actually part of my question, do you guys have this information, have you

26:01ever received it and how do you get it outside of our comprehensive plan?

26:06Do we typically share this information to Mr. Cable historically, since you've got

26:10the experience here, how typically is that information shared between council and planning

26:15and zoning departments?

26:16>> Well, typically the information we give is just about the P&Z, your job as an officer

26:26on the P&Z, the legal constraints, training throughout the year, unless I'm wrong, I

26:36don't think council has given us strategic direction to give to the P&Z.

26:41>> We've never done this before, we've not done it, you're absolutely right and so when

26:46we were talking about the idea of the purpose of this was for communication just so that

26:50we understand as a city as a whole what direction are we moving, they're a critical piece to

26:54this and they weren't getting that information, so I guess moving forward, how can we ensure

26:58that our priorities, our economic development trends, things like that, how do we share

27:03this information with them so that they are tracking that as well, what's the best way

27:07to do that or what have you seen in your previous experience?

27:14>> I guess my reply is you tell us what you want, what is important to you and we can

27:23definitely include that in the initial training.

27:25>> So having conversations with my mentor and I would have to rely on you all for what

27:29it takes for you guys to make a decision, but my understanding is that planning and

27:34zoning, when we are setting direction as a council and you all are ultimately making

27:39your decision, at the end of the day then staff has to go make that happen regardless

27:43of how we come together and make that decision, so we have to understand how to execute a

27:48clear vision but how do we translate that, so how do we get that information is going

27:52to be important, what information do you need, understanding then our priorities that

27:56we set I think is extremely important and yes we will share that with you all specifically,

28:03but exchanging that information about emerging development trends and community needs are

28:08what they had listed as number one that you all would need that we would want to share

28:12with you as a council to a planning and zoning body just to have a general understanding.

28:17Also our long range plans, so any planning issues before they come urgent or contentious

28:23that could be something as well, so if we know of big development coming or something

28:25like that I don't know how we would communicate or share that information and then identifying

28:31policy questions that you guys have or that we have regarding our our development and

28:39then what is that communication like look like because what I heard from Mr. Sells question

28:43as well and please correct me if I'm wrong but a piece of that was if you did have communication

28:48that you wanted like typically if we have a question we're going to email staff right

28:53the staff and city managers always included on that email I don't know if you all do

28:57the same when you have questions is that how it works for you guys as well on the

29:00backside so you communicate with staff that way okay all right but I do think those are

29:04things we need to think of because as we move forward it's important that they understand

29:08that we have an understanding of our direction that we're moving in our planning and zoning

29:12since they are the front facing understand what is our vision for our city which which

29:16direction are we are we taking our city at this time and thank you Mr. Mayor for that

29:26and your your point to that because I think a lot of times in our conversations it is

29:31do you guys do updated reports when you're working with the other entities because I

29:35know there's a lot of agendas that you guys are kind of setting for our local chambers

29:39and our EDC's because we have been kind of the front like I said the front face on some

29:45heavier topics as of late I was appointed in October and I think the very first meeting

29:50was data centers and so it was okay what is the city's mission and so knowing that

29:58the things that come to P&Z are things that are being worked on and discussed with staff

30:03but through direction of council through initiatives put through with signing tasks

30:08for EDC's and Chamber of Commerce and so yeah if our P&Z's aren't commissioners we're

30:13not aware of what the mission for the city is going forward a lot of times we can actually

30:18be working against what the goal and the mission for the city is and so I don't know

30:23if you guys do reports within yourselves as far as council and staff if that can just

30:28be a part of our monthly briefing or anything like that because though we are volunteers

30:33I know we've heard some board say hey I'm just a volunteer but we're also the advocates

30:38for the city but with more of a people facing aspect and so we definitely don't want our

30:45commission meetings to turn into miniature council meetings but because we're unaware

30:49of what you guys's mission are that's what they're turning into and so we're combating

30:54people's feelings and emotions and what they've done research in with our own general understanding

31:00and our discretionary understanding of what things are but we don't really have you guys's

31:05perspective on what the mission for the city is even if we read the comprehensive plan

31:10because it is a fluid you know plan in place so if there's a report that you guys are

31:16doing where it can be submitted to us that would be awesome. So I don't know what that

31:20look like but that being like us including our like for example we're working on the

31:25data center conversation right we're talking we haven't gone there yet as far as the ordinance

31:28and creating that information but that's something that I would think that would be

31:32provided to them so that they could after we've decided on what that looks like I think

31:36that would be important information to have we just need to figure out how to mandate

31:39that so that it goes to them sorry go ahead sir. Thank you Mr. Mayor you know the great

31:46conversation and you know a few things that kind of have stuck with me listening to the

31:52two commissioners you know you say you still Commissioner Seals say he just came on Commissioner

31:56says she just came on in October some of us came on in May some people are already

32:00there and things are fluid things move move fairly frequently and for us who represent

32:07the public the way we in the way we collect information that's very fluid also I think

32:13the comprehensive plan which was there when we that many of us a lot of people had input

32:17on is that plan for now and I think and I think that as we make decisions we can't

32:24say what is the Rancho Street corridor gonna look like two years now but we have a plan

32:30already in place that that we have worked on and put a lot of time effort and public

32:35input to me that's that's it and then if we if something starts in P&Z and it comes

32:40to us and because things are so fluid through our collective votes we can up and down those

32:47those things right so I think until and until we as a new council work on our strategic

32:54plan and some other things things change in the police department things change on

32:59and zoning things change in a fart things change all the time so but the one thing

33:04that we have in this case is we have when it comes to zoning we have we have that document

33:10ready to go right now that we've all worked in put a lot of time and effort so until

33:14we work this body works on our strategic plan and some other things we're gonna have

33:19we're gonna have you know we it's constantly changing and evolving so I think until we

33:27work on that that's that's the plan that's that's what we go by is the common plan and

33:32if things need to be tweaked up and down I think the system is working right now business

33:38owner comes here someone wants to do a development you guys up and down it it comes to us we

33:43discuss it among ourselves and we say you know what that's just not the vision that

33:47we're at right now and then we voted up and down the system works I think if we get too

33:53many moving pieces in it the logistics if you email me this this has to be in we got

33:59a council meeting before then got to get two weeks before the man we get too many

34:03logistics in it things would never it'll never get done so I just I just I just caution

34:08us before we start putting other parts into this plan let's work what we have now right

34:14and then we as our body we work on our strategic plan it probably gives a more more more more

34:21more clarity on where we're going after talking with the constituents and we work the plan

34:27until until we so we figured out thank you mr. mayor councilmember nice king and then

34:33councilmember brown thank you thank you for that councilmember Campbell because as you

34:42know we not only have the comprehensive plan we have our ordinance and when a person come

34:47before you they're coming here to get zoned they can bring their own infrastructure with

34:53a Muslim wheel when they're doing development and then there may be areas where the infrastructure

34:58is there and what my concern is that we box everything in but the reality of I'm an applicant

35:09and I come here for zoning and I meet the criteria why would you stop me that's my

35:16concern I honestly thought this meeting was and I maybe misunderstood it that we were

35:23going to come we was going to have a better working relationship with communication because

35:29it's not the council job to take the staff job it's not our job to tell you what to

35:36do because then we don't need you so I just thought that we would come here and say we

35:44support you you're going to have conflict from residents because they don't want it

35:51I can give you all the information you want but if I data data center data center I don't

35:58want them but that's Debbie as a person as a resident but as a council member I have

36:05to look at it what is good for the city our personal feelings doesn't matter when we

36:11put you in this position and the people vote us in what matters the law is the ordinance

36:18and the comprehensive plan once again we keep going to that it's a moving document I think

36:24I could not have something up better than councilmember Kimball everything is in place

36:32if you have questions because if you come to me or three of us and talk to the mayor

36:39we got a walking horn so we shouldn't even be in the picture the staff we pay them to

36:45do this agree disagree we pointed you for a reason we cannot micromanage you and what

36:53you need to learn that's the staff they're here they're willing and ready to work with

36:59you and one of the experts that y'all have and I'm not just not saying this because he's

37:06number one that's where I'm on average been there done it t-shirt work for the city got

37:11all of it then Mr. I'ma mess up your name Mr. Andrew Zizzibouvin yes sir you know I'm

37:18talking to you and then you have Mr. Patrick this is where you all come together and work

37:23as a team not agreeing not already making up your mind before the person get here because

37:29that's not right that's what I feel right now and it's just not fair to the applicant

37:35agree or disagree but that's just my opinion thank you counsel Kimball I think that we

37:51do have a lot of documents in place that maybe you haven't had access to yet that might

37:58help clarify that a little bit more which are our master plans for most of our departments

38:04that would relate to zoning so we have a water and sewer master plan we have a drainage

38:09master plan we have a parks master plan I'm not entirely sure the commissioners have

38:16been provided that information but when it comes to what are the long term strategic

38:22plans that have been put in place between the council and the staff and the departments

38:28those are really some of those plans that go back to and then either compliment or

38:34maybe contrast with the the 40 2040 comprehensive plan which was meant to be a broader overview

38:43and then those master plans really narrow it down in so I think that also that is another

38:49direction that can be looked into perhaps request from staff if you have questions about

38:57does this fit in the infrastructure is not there is there a plan and plays in our strategic

39:02master plan to bring that infrastructure to that area so without having to come back

39:09each time and ask the council about that or ask staff each individual time there's a recorded

39:19set of plans already in place for those and those are a little less fluid so like our

39:25water and sewer master plan that's pretty set in place because that's how we establish

39:31our impact fees so we have to have that in place in order to determine what projects

39:37could be coming up to determine those impact fees if I'm correct Miss Glements and you

39:45repeat that question so some of some of the our master plans such as the water and sewer

39:50master plan and those those improvements that we intend to make that we have planned

39:56out those are a little bit more solid than the comprehensive plan because we use that

40:02to help determine impact fees and where those those funds could be used correct I mean you

40:10do use those for that purpose I'm not sure well I can answer that it's true they're more

40:15solid but it really has nothing to do with P&Z because P&Z ought to be deciding the

40:21highest and best use of the property within the confines of the comp plan all the development

40:26issues water sewer traffic all that that's what those ordinances are there for so they're

40:32just supposed to be deciding on the highest and best use of that land within the comp

40:36plan everything else is extraneous dealt with in a different stage of development and when

40:43you look at it that way it really simplifies and clarifies the job and I will agree to disagree

40:48on that part because part of our comp plan does discuss making sure that that proper

40:53infrastructure is in place for the sustainability and the fiscal sustainability right but the

40:59comp plan is not just about zoning it's about development my comment was on the zoning every

41:04property owner has the right to have their property zoned whether there's infrastructure

41:09there or not when they can develop it is a different question outside of the zoning

41:15and if it can't be zoned for 20 years then changing this or developed for 20 years then

41:20changing the zoning right now may not be the best decision and so that's why I'm just

41:25saying there's a lot of factors that come into consideration at each level of the decision

41:33making process the commissioners were asking where can we go for guidance on what the

41:39strategic plans of the city and the city councilor I'm just saying that that is a

41:44tool that gives those strategic plans that outliers what the where the city strategically

41:52is planning to invest our money to invest in improvements as far as parks as far as

41:58drainage as far as water and sewer so that they have a point at least that's a little

42:05bit more solid of the idea of what that growth plan actually is from the city and the staff

42:12perspective from those departments so I am just saying that I believe that that is another

42:19tool available if that's something that you're concerned about making sure that is something

42:25that you would also have access to and those are all publicly available on our website

42:29too.

42:33Thank you Mr. Mayor I'm getting a lot of good information here and having just been

42:45appointed and sworn in today actually I would like to say that well the way I it's more

42:54of a question than it is a comment and the question is more along the lines of tell

43:01me if I'm right in how I'm seeing this as far as you know I kind of worked out a little

43:08demographic here on my sheet to kind of get me as far as a flow of how things should

43:15go or what would be conducive according to what the council wants because ultimately

43:22I understand that you are the person or you are the people who are responsible for building

43:27a comprehensive plan the only changes that can come to the comprehensive plan are through

43:31you correct okay so um and I know we spent a lot of time when I was on council developing

43:39that comprehensive plan and yeah it doesn't go down to every I and every T but it does

43:46give us a very broad understanding of what you and what the staff has put together I

43:52think Verdunity was the one that helped us along with developing that and a lot of time

43:57and effort was put to make that so I think that we as commissioners can use that along

44:08with the left and right bounds given by the staff to make a decision as to what we we

44:16can bring a citizens kind of just you know a lay citizens perspective to any decision

44:23we make and ultimately it comes back to you you're the one that has to answer to the

44:28people so um tell me if I'm incorrect in saying that our Bible is the comprehensive

44:34plan and um of course we would hear anything that the applicant would bring to us and we

44:43make a decision and we can go from there and I respect what um councilwoman Nash King

44:48said about you know letting us make a decision and then it just simply it's not a personal

44:53thing it's just a hey you know this is how we see it from a ground level comprehensive

44:58perspective comprehensive plan perspective and then turn it over to you am I correct

45:04in have I missed the mark on anything that I've said so far and again this is being

45:09new as a commissioner understanding what my left and right boundaries are what my marching

45:15orders are I think that I believe uh council name is the missing I'm sorry commissioner

45:24still hands with a purse and then then we'll answer your question yes yeah so just real

45:33quick I want to make one clarification to the earlier comment um by Mr. Kegel so I

45:41mean in in the slides that were given uh it states you know for us consideration should

45:47be um you know the amendment is consistent with principal's policies set forth by the

45:54comp plan which is fine is it compatible with the character of the surrounding area

45:58is the impact the proposed amendment on existing infrastructure impacts on the proposed amendment

46:04to city services um impacts on environmentally sensitive and natural areas um if the designation

46:13is inappropriate all these considerations of population size area character building

46:18form structure conditions infrastructure public services market factors um if it's

46:24a need for the land and then is there sufficient of information as far as utility capacity

46:31traffic impacts public service implications residents stakeholder concerns so I think

46:37there there there are considerations for us that are beyond just is this in the you know

46:45comp plan and is it uh residential or industry or commercial right I think we this this is

46:52our job our roles and responsibilities to have all these considerations so I think

46:56that it's important we have that general understanding amongst all of us that we're going to seek

47:01that information to make our decision so I just want to make sure we're clear on that

47:06I'm not here to just say yeah that that's good for a house or no it's not it's we have

47:12to have all this information and take all these considerations that are beyond just

47:17a proposed amendment we have to understand what that impact is going to be to the city

47:22beyond you know what direction the city wants to go in we have to consider the state of

47:28that proposed amendment as it is today over thanks sorry

47:44what is that is that part of your incoming your briefing yeah it's a it's a P&Z training

47:52okay packet that we get from the city attorney so it provides us a lot of direction and

48:00guidance on what our roles and responsibilities are so that's kind of why I'm just trying

48:06to your point ma'am I my first question I had was this first the discussion item we're

48:13on today and it just sounds like y'all can't influence us and you don't want to so then

48:21I don't even know this discussion item here like what we're supposed to receive from

48:27you right you can't I understand you have your priorities that doesn't necessarily make

48:33it a P&Z priority this your strategic direction should not influence my decision making and

48:41your expectations outside of what you know maybe how many meetings we have and and some

48:48other things like that as far as expectations but what I'm understanding is you should

48:54not be influencing what we're doing on this side right so that was kind of my first point

49:00was like if you want to give us that then I'm gonna involve you if you want to be involved

49:07if you don't want to be involved that I'm not right I have my roles and responsibilities

49:12I know what I'm supposed to do and and that's kind of where I was going in the first place

49:18so I I respect the discussion and everything but it's like my takeaway right now is that

49:24I have my roadmap I'm gonna follow this based on every every person that comes up here every

49:31applicant and I'm gonna go from there I understand what you have to do I'm gonna tell you how

49:36I feel about it for that particular item and we'll go from there thank you he basically

49:45answered everything I was being ready to talk about Commissioner Wilkinson's question because

49:52we went to him Commissioner steals was your question answer sir in terms of to a certain

50:02extent yes well I would just like to hear it from the council if I'm off point anything

50:12and I think Commissioner sales kind of pretty much laid it out again and saying that you

50:17know of course we have the comprehensive plan and we have measures within staff of course

50:21we're going to use our human minds to make decisions and you know hearing from the public

50:27and hearing from the applicants that we already have our we have our guidelines as what we

50:34need to do now the one thing I would like to add to that though is that as we continue

50:39to to progress as we continue to make decisions and send them forward to council if when we're

50:48seeing things from our perspective and sending them forward to you that they start to vary

50:54outside or they start to trend towards a change and comprehensive plan that you all pick

51:00up on that is that and I know this is kind of geared where you're kind of telling us

51:06what your expectations are and how we but I do have an expectation also that as a citizen

51:11that as you see these things come through that you can judge the trends that make appropriate

51:17changes to the comprehensive plan as we've said over and over again it's a living document

51:23so if we start to see that things that were created I think it was created in 2022 if

51:30we start to see things start to trend a different direction or if things change I mean things

51:35are changing nationally and statewide all the time so we may have to make those updates

51:41well we don't you have to make the updates to the comprehensive plan so that's all I

51:46think we're in agreement I understand exactly what Commissioner Seals is saying excellent

51:50part I do want to add to that real quick is that but that is one takeaway is that

51:54future changes if you if you the city council has plans to completely alter the comp plan

52:01in some manner like I think that is that's those feedback loops that could come down

52:06to the P and Z that would really help us it's not you're telling us to we're doing

52:10this but you're saying hey this is a major change data center ordinance considerations

52:15right like you brought up earlier I think those are really great input areas into the

52:20P and Z from the council that just says these these are changes that are coming that aren't

52:24currently captured in the comp plan that could impact how we move forward in certain

52:29things so I want to echo that from Commissioner perfect we have had some great conversation

52:38on slide one over the last 20 25 minutes here to my account everybody is saying the

52:46same thing and different words right we're all on the same sheet of music here that

52:53council is council and P and Z is P and Z when a packet is brought to P and Z to review

53:03an applicant's application they come and make their their case staff also recommends

53:08in the work and during the workshop there's also a recommendation by staff to approve

53:13or disapprove so I just want to address a small part of what Commissioner Seals was

53:20asking I don't think we need to go down in the weeds that far that's what staff is for

53:27and when they bring the application to us during the workshop they let us know should

53:33we or what their recommendation is to approve or disapprove because of all the things that

53:38are down in the weeds that they've already figured out and worked out and have come

53:43to that conclusion according to all these tools that we have available to us so uh next

53:55slide we're going to go down may approach him again councilmember Hendrickson then

54:04councilmember so yes thank you sir so yes I'm with you next slide but I just want to

54:08just so I just don't want us to miss this point absolutely you guys hit the nail on

54:12the head we're not here to tell you guys what to do I think we all understand the

54:15roles of council versus PNC that the challenge that we've had in the past was communication

54:21because there was no format like this where we could share information so what I'm asking

54:26I don't know about anybody else but what I'm asking for is I'm trying to help set

54:29some processes in place so that our staff can be more efficient so for example we're

54:34talking about sharing these we are there according to some massive changes here we're

54:38talking about data centers we're talking about just what the federal government is

54:42doing in their 90th legislative session there's a lot going on how do we connect to you guys

54:46we don't have a process in place I'm a process person and it's driving me batty that we don't

54:50have a way to share this information you guys we are on the same team so that's the kind

54:55of information I'm talking about that we need to know that we need to share across

54:58the board not getting in your lane of how you make a decision that is not it it's not

55:02for consensus it's for clarity if that makes sense that is the whole reason for that you

55:09asked a question about and that was really I think again stills hit it on the head it's

55:13just really because of the rapid changes that we want to be able to figure out how do we

55:17share information I don't even know what information was already being shared to you

55:20guys and it sounds like there are some things that we as counsel can give direction to

55:23staff now understanding something about our priorities and some of the changes that we've

55:27made I don't know if they tell you about the projects that Terz has authorized historical

55:31projects that are already in place do you get briefed on that when you come on to planning

55:35and zoning I don't believe so that's important information that you all should have according

55:39to my understanding of decisions that you're making across the board so those are the kind

55:43of things that I'm looking for is not a meeting to tell you how to do or to restructure or

55:47to add changes to staff it's really just how can we communicate effectively how do

55:52we share and disseminate information knowing that we're going into a year that's gonna

55:55have a lot of changes we're making changes right now as we speak how do we share that

56:01what information do you need to be effective and then asking staff what's the best way

56:05to get this information to you guys so that we're symbiotic that's it so thank you next

56:10slide and then councilmember Brown and then councilmember I'm ready to go on today because

56:18like like you just said we are repetitive on on what's being said so I mean I'm ready

56:24to go on to the next we talked about the communication how we're going to communicate

56:29I think everything is pretty much there it's just about us making it happen that's it and

56:36there's nothing more to be said let's just make it happen I concur that staff makes recommendations

56:48the planning and zoning commission we end up getting that same staff recommendation

56:52by the time it comes to council the difference is we count on you to give us the recommendation

56:57from your perspective so at no point and this is important I think for the public to

57:01understand too planning and zoning doesn't get to come in and make the decision yes or

57:06no this zoning change happens the the motion that is made at planning and zoning is we

57:12make a motion to either recommend approving it or recommend disapproving it then it's

57:18up to the council to decide do we agree with the recommendation from planning and zoning

57:24do we agree with the recommendation from staff sometimes those two recommendations

57:29are going to differ and and I expect that I would hope that it wasn't always a hundred

57:35percent in agreements I would like to say that the my final thing on expectation has

57:43nothing to do with how you decide or make your decisions or come to those conclusions

57:49or what criteria you're using it is simply the expectation that every commissioner remembers

57:56that you are still a public person now you're in that public arena I know you all get standards

58:04of expectation of behavior just like we do and remembering that when interacting with

58:10the public it was mentioned at the very beginning this is the very first phase for a lot of

58:16people coming in wanting to do business with Colleen outside of staff this is the first

58:21body planning and zoning quite often knows about projects coming to Colleen and what

58:26those specifics are before the City Council does because you get your packets earlier

58:31you discuss them earlier a lot of times council does not necessarily know in advance what

58:38projects or what developments are coming to planning and zoning early so just that remembering

58:45when the citizens come in unfortunately y'all get that extra supercharged emotion up front

58:52because you are the very first time they can publicly come in and present that so whether

58:57it's in person or online just remembering that you are representing the city you were

59:03not elected but that we appointed you because we trust you to be those representatives that

59:09we we want to see reflected within the city of Colleen I've discussed priorities councilman

59:22Kimball had a good point that the council needs to come up with what our priorities

59:27are which should be we don't have any the data center or data center the council still

59:35working on that short-term rental on regulations we're still working on that so so you the

59:42training opportunities you do have that and whatever we're working is gonna be black

59:47and white it's gonna be an ordinance so it's gonna be a policy everything that you need

59:54before a separate not a not across the board when that person come up here and interest

1:00:00We want to encourage you to make a decision on their land or their representing a company for their land. You should be fair. Not about what we feel, not what you think fair. And the only way you're going to be fair, and this sums up this whole meeting, is that staff and your relationship should be, first you've got to respect staff.

1:00:23We're running various staff, we don't talk over staff, we have our legal here, we have Ms. Messcher here, we have Ms. Wilson, whoever the new city manager may be, he or she, but you have to respect them.

1:00:36And I'm glad somebody, Councilwoman Brown brought that up. You all have behavior, the council will come down hard, and I hope you read them, you understand them, because we held accountable.

1:00:52What people care about doing a recall, this, this and that, we all are held accountable. So, coming back toward every board, and you said it in a little bit, are you holding every other board to this level?

1:01:06I heard you. I don't know if they called it, but I called it. So, I agree, every board and committee that follows up under the city council should be held to the same standard, and that's behavior.

1:01:21Don't talk over each other, when staff come up there and give you a recommendation, you're not fighting against the city, because if you fight against us, the council, not that we're going to tell you what to do and how to do it, we're not.

1:01:34But to disrespect the city of Colleen and the residents you represent, we will stand strong together and you will be removed.

1:01:42That's what this was all about, a behavior you, Councilwoman Brown took the courage to put this all in a nutshell. This is what this meeting should have been about. That's when it started out, and she finally said it.

1:01:57I didn't do the agenda, so I didn't know. But I read it after the fact. That's what it's about. And I just think moving forward, our future meetings, if we go that way, staff should have a presentation, and that presentation should be updates.

1:02:14And they're going to be briefing us, because it's basically nothing we really can do with any committee once we are point down, we only have the authority to remove you, but you have to have a reason to be removed.

1:02:31So I think that's just it's one council member always say the elephant in the room, let's just put that elephant out there and it's all about Councilwoman Brown said it in a nice way and it's about carry yourself in a respectful way, treat staff and the applicants that come before you in a professional manner,

1:02:51because you always represent the city. So I'm just hoping for our future agenda that then the next three months, six months, I don't even know if we want to do it again.

1:03:02I'm not even sure where the council going but I looked at the agenda and we, we can just talk about it over and over but we haven't even decided what we wanted to do, and Councilmember Kimball said it best, work with what you got, and we'll go back, and we'll get everything in order to present it to you.

1:03:20Because as of today, we haven't even decided. Thank you.

1:03:26Okay. That being said, Madam Secretary, the next item item to DS dash to six dash zero eight seven discuss communication and collaboration between PNC and Council, including training opportunities.

1:03:46Okay, I think we talked about everything except training opportunity.

1:03:51Council commissioners in your discussion comments or questions. Councilmember Kim, Mr. Mayor, if there's no other discussion I think we should move on to number three I think we went to already combined.

1:04:05There is, I'm sorry, Commissioner. I just wanted to make a comment on that training opportunities I think it's one of the most important things, whether you're an elected or appointed official is to try your best to surround yourself with the folks

1:04:25that have the information and the knowledge that you want, you know, fortunately here, whether you're on PNC or on city council, we have an amazing staff that's always willing to sit down and help us understand and digest these questions that we come up with.

1:04:42That doesn't matter, elected or appointed, you get responses back from the community and they may tell you hey this is how I feel I want it I don't want it. I like it I don't like it, and our task, sometimes the most difficult task I believe, as an elected or appointed official

1:05:01is making unpopular decision but also being able to justify and explain it in a manner that a layperson can understand it.

1:05:13You know, a lot of times we're used to certain terminology and verbiage, whether you're talking about engineering or planning, but you always have to remember your audience and know who it is that you're speaking to and be able to break it down to them in a way and say,

1:05:28I heard your concern because that's my, my duty is to listen and hear your concerns. And then I take those concerns back to our experts on staff. And I say hey look this is what I'm hearing from the public about this case.

1:05:43Now you tell me, are these concerns justified, are they not, why is this way why is it not this way, and then I go back to the community and I tell them, whether at this meeting or by phone or by email and say hey look, I heard your concern I took it back to our experts on staff.

1:06:03This is what they told me, this is the breakdown of it, here's a point of contact if you want to speak to them yourself. And I think that goes a long way.

1:06:14But tying it back to the training opportunities, you know, whether we sit down with staff and have conversations, sometimes that's a great form of training.

1:06:24You know, there's lots of different conferences and things that you can go to or sometimes just stream online there's workshops that they can send us a web link to and you can sit down with staff and watch those things I think we just had one here recently.

1:06:43And there's another one coming up by the Central Texas Council of Governments, all those things help prepare, again, elected or appointed officials to be able to make these decisions because I was a city employee for 10 years.

1:06:59I've been planning and zoning Commissioner for six years prior to this appointment so this is my seventh year, served on council for four years, and I don't consider myself an expert in any one of these fields because that's not my profession and I think that's also important

1:07:17to not undermine this, the experts that we have on staff who have dedicated themselves to these fields. I can read all I want about medicine, but that doesn't make me a doctor, you know, I may have stayed at a holiday and express but that doesn't qualify me to diagnose your issues.

1:07:39So if your questions are about infrastructure or utilities and whether or not they're sufficient capacity. We have those experts to tell us those answers right here and if there is a conflict and interpretation of an ordinance or the comprehensive plan.

1:07:57These are experts that can help us smooth out those those ruffles that we may not understand because that is not my profession that is not what I do that I didn't go to school to be an engineer or an attorney or a planner, or anything of the sort.

1:08:13But we have those folks so I think again, being able to enhance our own knowledge with training and our access to staff helps us all become better elected or appointed officials and again being able to help the community and the general public understand why some things

1:08:33are the way that they are.

1:08:35Order, please. Thank you. Well, said, Commissioner, I mean, Councilmember Brown, I just want to point out we did.

1:08:55I don't know if everyone else the whole council but for the development district of Central Texas, who helps plan these planning and zoning classes that they have out at SIGHOG, we got an email updating us today that there are still openings available

1:09:13for the Wednesday session. I know it's very short notice for those commissioners who are just sworn in today. But it is a very helpful and insightful allows them to go into a little bit more details that staff may not have time to do during the process

1:09:28of a commission or a PMZ meeting, but I just want to put it out there that it is still available they do still have openings as of this afternoon.

1:09:42Okay, that's it. We'll move on.

1:09:48Madam Secretary, I'm excited. Item three, ds dash two six dash zero eight eight discuss proposed amendments to the zoning ordinance, including standards for data centers and short term rental regulations.

1:10:07Excuse me, I don't have the presentation prepared but what I can do is I can speak to the recommendation that was made during the discussion item on September 15 regarding data centers, and, and, and go over that again with you.

1:10:30So you'll recall that during that meeting, staff, there's a discussion item and staff proposed three different tiers of data centers that would, or could be allowed, either by right or or with conditions in any number of zoning districts

1:10:50and what we had proposed during that meeting was to break break data centers up into three categories small medium and large with small data centers being those up to 10 megawatts up to 10,000 square feet or up to five acres in size, medium data centers being up

1:11:10to 100 megawatts up to 100,000 square feet, and between five and 50 acres, and then larger hyperscale data centers being anything over 100 megawatts over 100,000 square feet or over 50 acres.

1:11:25What we had suggested during that meeting was allowing small data centers by right and be five medium data centers by right and M1 and large data centers by right and M2.

1:11:39The question of direction as you know was to draft an ordinance to allow all data centers only by, or via conditional use permit.

1:11:48So we've, we've begun working on that version of the ordinance that would permit them all with a conditional use permit.

1:11:57But this of course is an opportunity for you to give us additional direction if you'd like to do that.

1:12:05If you come with a question just council member pass. Could the staff clarify the role of the planning and zoning commission regarding when they make decisions for data centers, and the responsibility of the city council when we make decisions

1:12:37for data centers. What is planning and zoning parameters for that decision and what is our parameters for that decision.

1:12:52Just in general. So, as, as with any zoning request, whether it's a data center or anything else and whether it's for a based zoning district or for conditional use permit or a plan unit development.

1:13:07The staff staff reviews the request and prepares a presentation that includes a recommendation and then the planning and zoning commission reviews that presentation and the information provided by staff and makes a recommendation to the city council.

1:13:25It's just a recommendation, but it is discretionary. So, what does that mean well, it planning and zoning can make a discretionary recommendation which means that they can consider staff's recommendation they can consider the guidelines outlined in the comprehensive plan but

1:13:43they do have broad discretion to recommend approval or disapproval, or sometimes approval approval of a more restrictive zoning district approval of a request with conditions with a conditional use permit or disapproval.

1:14:01And the PNC is a body makes a recommendation and the council considers the recommendation of staff and the recommendation of the commission and ultimately makes their own decision. Yes, sir. Obviously the decision for data center ordinances is entirely up to the city council and whatever

1:14:22y'all decide, I would just like to add, you know, maybe sometimes we don't have to reinvent the wheel. Our neighbors to the east city temple, if you've followed anything on social media or, or the news has had a good proliferation of data centers.

1:14:41I believe they just underwent an ordinance to help deal with data center so it may be something and staffs maybe already tracking it to look at and see if there's anything good there that the city council would like to consider, and then maybe you can, you

1:15:00know, tweak it maybe it's a good basis for the city of clean and then you just kind of tailor it to fit. Councilmember brown on the. So on the, on the cup is a two parter for the staff so on the cup.

1:15:19Does that one is that provide more mobility on the variances because, you know, small is a very general term I'm sure each one can can bring something different.

1:15:32So one is that why they you want the cup route and then two, on top of that, will that allow the city to impose more restrictions on the, on the environmental side like earlier that a citizen brought up, you know, electricity, water, heat lighting.

1:15:52So is, does that allow staff to kind of impose more regulations, using the cup path conditional use permit always allows staff to attach conditions.

1:16:13When you say why we went the conditional use permit route that was based on emotional direction from Council. Okay. Okay. So Commissioner sales maybe I can help you clarify that a little bit further.

1:16:31I initially brought up the recommendation of a conditional use permit for all data centers, rather than allowing them by right in any district.

1:16:43I also personally have recommended that they only be allowed in manufacturing or industrial zone to areas, and that they be at least a minimum of 1000 feet away from any residential area, because of some of the issues that were brought up by one of our speakers earlier,

1:17:00the impact they could have on residential or even businesses. If you were to put it in the middle of a be five zoning, you still have stores that could be affected by it.

1:17:12You have other operations other businesses going on that could be affected by it, which is why my recommendation had been within the industrial manufacturing zoning only with the conditional use permit.

1:17:27There's a couple things when we know that the state may or may not make some more decisions on their regulations on data centers. I know one of the things right now they're there's still a moratorium on them for any that have not been approved.

1:17:44One of the rules that has already been put in place is that they have to have a letter from the PC and from help me out here, because I'm forgetting the name.

1:18:02The note, not that one, or cut it came to me. They have to have a letter from the pumpkin from or cut saying that there is not only is there availability to provide them with that power but also that if infrastructure is going to be needed to bring it to them that

1:18:24they're going to be responsible for paying for the infrastructure. There may be additional rules that they decide to put in place with the conditional use permit that gives us the most flexibility to say okay the state has now implemented this rule.

1:18:40Instead of going back and revising our ordinance each time. We can make sure that is a condition that is put on to that permit each time.

1:18:49If we find out that we have a data center that is not following or adhering to those conditions. The use of a conditional use permit also allows the city council to then revoke that and say because you're not being a good stewer of that property, using

1:19:08it in the way that was agreed to upon you, and the city council, then we're revoking your rights to do that. So to me, allowing it with a conditional use permit rather than by rights, allows a little bit more protection for the city for the citizens,

1:19:23and also for that business because then they know exactly everything that we're expecting from them.

1:19:34Yeah, one thing I mentioned earlier making difficult decisions. I think we definitely, whether it's data centers and looking at cups, or it was just a regular, you know, a typical zoning case as planning a zoning like as zoning commissioners we're hearing,

1:19:53you know, the zoning portion of it, some of these steps that we're asking about don't happen until later on in the process.

1:20:02It's sometimes traffic analysis or something like that that happens later on in the process, if they are approved. So, when we're hearing the case, we need to be listening to the zoning part of it.

1:20:18You know, we, we do get a here from the citizens, a lot of times, you know, whether they're here to speak for or against the case.

1:20:30We're still here to listen to the zoning portion, and then City Council will also be able to hear from the citizens and they will be able to decide, yes or no, you know, based off of that the, what we have to remember is that just because we're listening to someone

1:20:53that present the case, that doesn't mean that that person is going to be, you know, maybe that company whatever is going to be in charge of that, they could sell the data center to a different company and completely changed the number of employees or,

1:21:10you know, we're hearing for a restaurant or a bar or whatever, it can change hands. We're focused on the zoning, and then, that's all I have.

1:21:28I want to. Yes. Thank you, Commissioner Andrew, if you don't mind, you can call me Commissioner can ask you can as fine.

1:21:42But in light of what he said, is there a way to educate the public in this, because I think to a point when you have a PNC meeting, and they don't understand what each of us are responsible for it can get misinterpreted as us not listening to the

1:22:03citizen. And I understand that you know, a part of our job is just taking the heat from citizens from, you know, whether they understand or not, but I think we will be doing our due diligence to at least educate them in some kind of a format,

1:22:20a communications format that we can say, Hey, look, this is when you bring something up for zoning. This is what the PNC does. This is what the council approves. I think that will be helpful going forward. Thank you.

1:22:35I'm going to ask him, and then tell some commissioners, Commissioner workerson and Commissioner Andrew. That is so true. But the only way you can stay on zone and Commissioner, President, Mr. Patrick, once when they get off the chair is responsible for getting

1:22:59them back on. And if you have any concern, you have a legal team, a person behind you. If the chair, Commissioner Patrick, and whoever your legal representative, but another thing the commissioners because I know we do it, and turning Clemens try to get us back on track.

1:23:20If we get off line, first of all, you not on the agenda, because we're not talking about that. So it's very hard. But the commissioners and council need to stay on zoning. We bring a lot of heat on ourselves that both ways.

1:23:41And if the chair or either committee don't catch it, then it's out of control. And you can do a point of order and say, Hey, Mr. Chair, they are the commissioners off is its only. And once that and that's for both of us not counseling Commissioner.

1:24:01Once we start practicing what we preach, then the residents will see when you go to that mean, oh, they're here, here, here about and say you guys stay on zone. So that's a good point that you may, Commissioner workers.

1:24:14I would like to respond. Also, I do agree 100% with what you're saying. I'm just saying that as far as the communication effort more of a gift, forgive my terminology but more profile to get it out before, make sure that they understand that this is what, you know, because you're

1:24:35right. I mean, we've always seen that, you know, we can get off of off of track of different agenda topics. But I think going into it, if the citizens understood that these are the requirements, or these are what the commissioners are responsible

1:24:52for or whatever, whatever committee it will be and then with the councilman before they step into the room, but then going back to what you're saying, I do agree with what you're saying. Yes.

1:25:08I will make this short. I agree with what you're saying, and I've kind of talked about this before and I talked about it with Commissioner seals that we do need to have some type of citizens engagements to inform them of those things

1:25:25that go on, like when we're talking about the data center, and how we look at it and all of that where they have that understanding without understanding they get all of the misleading information and then they don't know what they're talking about.

1:25:39And then when you're trying to tell them something, then it starts a big argument to where then you have to tell yourself, I'm just going to walk away from this, because nothing good is going to come out of this.

1:25:50So I think we, we have to have that. And we also have to use our city website to talk about a lot of these things and put it out there the more information that we put out there, it will help.

1:26:07I'm not going to say everybody is going to read it because we know that is not going to happen, but I would like for it to happen so when we put the information out there and even if we do have those meetings and only 20 people show up.

1:26:21No one can say the city didn't put the information out. So and I think we can probably do a better job at that because I like what we did when we talked about shop or railroad. I'm on the council I went out there and I learned something.

1:26:38So, that's what it's about everybody learning and knowing what's going on. And I think if we do that, like I say once again, no one can complain and say they didn't know the information is there.

1:26:50And we tried to do like a little town hall to inform you of what's going on. Well, then Councilmember Kimball.

1:27:04So this item specifically wasn't released talk about whether or not we're going to allow data centers and and under which conditions it's just to say that planning and zoning beef.

1:27:17If I understand correctly from what I received from staff, the city council will not have any more input into the proposed ordinance for the zoning for data centers before it comes to planning and zoning, which is why I wanted to make sure that I use this opportunity

1:27:36to give my input what I'm personally looking for in that. Again, it is entirely up to you what you recommend. I'm just going to let you know that that is when it when it does make it back to council.

1:27:49Those are going to be a couple of the things that I personally am looking at. But I welcome the feedback and the recommendations from planning and zoning.

1:27:59I think that's why this part of the conversation was important to Commissioner Chia Comozi's point of he was making is that, yes, when it comes here, it is about whether or not it qualifies for that zoning and not necessarily long term.

1:28:19But for this item in particular, we're not even discussing what is the project? Is it coming in? Does it fit that zoning?

1:28:27This is to help us prepare for future development and future planning. So you're helping us to design the way that zoning ordinance will be written.

1:28:36Because eventually, if a data center comes forward, the first place they come to to see does it fit the requirements of our ordinance is going to be the commission that we're looking at right now.

1:28:49So that part of helping us with those ordinances, I think is integral and that feedback that we get from you.

1:28:58So if you have other ideas that you think this is something that should be in there. And those are recommendations that should be coming to council, because again, you're the body that we have selected to make recommendations on that test.

1:29:10And then just my last point on this, and it should be fairly straightforward, because I believe we our motion of direction was just to bring it back as presented by the city auditor.

1:29:24But can you give Miss measure? Can you just give PNC a little preview about because it does say about short term rental regulations about what those proposed changes are going to look like?

1:29:36Sure. So as you alluded to the city auditor, Mr. Matt Grady did an audit which recommended that the inspection requirements for short term rentals be removed from process.

1:29:51So we are currently working on a draft ordinance that would remove those inspection requirements from the registration process with the goal being to remove obstacles or hurdles to the registration process in order to ensure that we're collecting as much hotel occupancy tax from the short term rentals as possible.

1:30:17That ordinance is largely drafted and should come to PNC in October and then come to Council in December.

1:30:31Councilman Kimball.

1:30:33Thank you, Mr. Mayor, a great conversation today.

1:30:37Apparently was needed. I think we kind of alluded to that and Commissioner Wilkerson brought something up.

1:30:44And then I think as whether elected or appointed there are we do have responsibilities and I think some of those will I feel those responsibilities as education to the public because we constantly here I know I've heard it.

1:30:57I may have even said it. I don't even know. But why do we have so many car washes? Why do we have so many vape shops, smoke shops?

1:31:04But if it's allowed per our zoning, it's nothing you can do about it, right? If they come up here and they make the presentation or even have to I mean, just go along as it fits within.

1:31:15But what we have is we have a public that gets upset with us because they don't know because then we say, well, why why didn't they know?

1:31:21So I think there's a there is a responsibility, at least I can speak for myself and maybe and probably many members of this council is that we have that public that we have that responsibility to do that.

1:31:32And I look forward to maybe working with you, Commissioner, to educate the public when it comes to how does zoning work?

1:31:39You know, zoning one on one, you know, whatever the land use one on one, whatever the case may be, because at least for me, I'm not in the business of telling people what to do with the land.

1:31:48And that's just that's not Chuck Kimball. And that's not many of the people who I represent. They don't they don't want that.

1:31:55But I think what they what they what they do want is how does how does government work when it comes to zoning, when it comes to opening up a business, use of a car wash, use of a vape shop.

1:32:06And so they can understand that. I know we do a very good thing. We do very good. We do very well when it comes to education, education, the public, when it comes to public safety, through the academies, our citizens academy.

1:32:19And I think there's just another part that we may have to as a council as as as as a commission to let's educate the public on land use and zoning and things like that.

1:32:31So it cuts down on so you can have so the discussion can be more fruitful and maybe not as temperate or hostile when when people know what it is.

1:32:43So I look forward to working with with you and the commission and doing my part to education and public.

1:32:51Thank you. That's one of the things that we talked about when we did our commission or training was as an advocate who sits on a couple of boards.

1:32:59It's always about the education. Yes, the information is available. Yes, it's out there.

1:33:04But most people don't read that. And sometimes you have to be consistent in that. So we talked about doing training videos on what are the responsibilities of the commissioners.

1:33:13What does future land use look like? Why is there the ability to zone or rezone certain spaces?

1:33:21Because a lot of times when people don't know that information. And so, of course, it's not going to be about every development project.

1:33:26But some of the major things like the data center, like I said, that was the first thing we voted on when I got sworn in.

1:33:32And so we sat here for two hours on listening to citizens who had their idea of what type of data center. And then when the actual applicant came in, it was a completely different type of data center.

1:33:46But that information wasn't even provided to P and Z. So we're also learning about the differences in the types of data centers.

1:33:54And so I think when one of the things we talked about in if there is a direction that the city is going and it's about major development and future planning like a data center that that is a conversation.

1:34:09I think every one of those needs a town hall so that and you guys have been doing a great job on having your town halls.

1:34:15I think between you guys and the last council getting that information out there. But those specific things, I think we need one.

1:34:21This is me because I am team downtown, downtown actually understanding revitalization and what that looks like, because people have their perceptions on what that is, but they don't have all of the facts.

1:34:33So they do come in charged up and ready to fight. And then it's like, bam, whole presentation was completely opposite.

1:34:40And so that education component on this is the direction. These are the type of options.

1:34:46So now when that applicant comes in, we know exactly what type we're dealing with.

1:34:50And to the point that you mentioned in just your understanding of what you would like to include in that ordinance, restricting it to a manufacturing or industrial and a thousand feet away from residential.

1:35:02That's great information to know because we just voted on a residential manufacturing development.

1:35:07And so knowing that if that's the ordinance that you guys vote on, but we just approved a development with manufacturing residential.

1:35:15Now we know that they're either going to have to put the data center on the backside furthest away from it. And if that's not the client that they want to put on the front side.

1:35:24So that understanding of what you guys's mission is, what your target is so that we know exactly how to vote on some of those again, just major issues, some stuff we're going to vote B3 to B5.

1:35:36Cool. R1 to R3. Awesome. What does that look like? But those major situations is definitely something that if that information is kind of presented on, this is the mission for the city.

1:35:48Because we're all going to change hands. P&Z, we're two years. And then we can't come on, am I done after next year? Dang.

1:35:55And so, but we rotate out in council. You guys are going to rotate out. So understanding, so everybody knows what the mission for the city is, can really kind of dispel more engagement on a positive, how can I help, how can I be a part aspect?

1:36:12Instead of some of some of the kind of veracity that is charged towards, you know what I'm going to say, volunteers.

1:36:19But active community engagement is what I'm always about. And so it's that transparency. Yes, the information is out there. But transparency is how are you getting that information out there? How consistent are you in getting it there?

1:36:31True PR is what I do believe our city is missing from the aspect of we do a great job of saying the good stuff. We got to know how to talk about the bad on a platform that people can actually digest and understand that you guys are out there working for the betterment of this community.

1:36:48Okay, um, so, um, council, I know we do have I talked to Miss measure and Mr. Kagle, and for our new council members and also for our current council members, the R1 R3 B2 B5, we have a package that I think it would be hoof if we put it on our website and also give it to the commissioners because it states clearly what can and cannot be there.

1:37:25And tomorrow, which is a good class, I don't even know Mr. Kagle could answer this because I don't know, Mr. Zager, tomorrow at the Central Texas Council government chance sparks will be teaching that planning and zoning class.

1:37:42So Wednesday, tomorrow's Wednesday, right today. Oh, Jesus. I'm sorry on Wednesday. I tell you, I had a great weekend.

1:37:56So, um, with that being said, if it's free, maybe doing our citizen Academy, we can add a little small part or planning is only just the basics, or if some way or another he or she chances so he could come down here and offer a town hall with no questions, just here to listen and learn.

1:38:20I mean, that's fees by my sand do it, but I'm solution focus other heard three or four times we need to do training Okay, got it. So how do we fix it.

1:38:31We can either add it to our citizen Academy just a small part when they go through Miss Zager and them to give them the basics, or we definitely put it online for people to see it, or do a short video, if possible, if they can record on Wednesday, the class he's going to teach.

1:38:49And see, can we get it from Bell County, put it on our website. Okay, there you go. All right, that's all I had solution focus. Okay, if there's no further discussion on mayor, if you don't can I make one last comment.

1:39:05Yes, sir. On data centers, I would just urge you to think about the when you consider the C CUP route, many in the industry will see that as a as it's just a ban, because if you're going to come into the community and invest 10s or hundreds of millions of dollars,

1:39:20and then be told by the vote of four members on council you can operate many will, they'll just go elsewhere. I think that the idea that we first proposed was to put certainty in into the ordinance.

1:39:35And these are the rules that you have to follow and you know it going in that gives someone certainty. And so it really just depends what your goal is with that ordinance if you want to ban them the CUP routes probably a pretty good way to go.

1:39:50Thank you. Good point. Thank you, sir. Councilmember Brown, I will stay on that. There's another reason why I feel the CUP route is maybe a preferable way to go.

1:40:04It was hit on earlier why does the city have so many car washes or gas stations or vape shops. Councilwoman Nash King said it herself if it's allowed by right in the zoning, and they come in and they want to go into the zoning we can't stop them.

1:40:20So if we have 10 small level, whatever we consider to be a small level data center, want to come in and go into a bunch of be five areas. If it's allowed by right, then there is no way of stopping that from happening they can just go into those be fives.

1:40:39So when we start getting all those questions about why do you have so many of them. Why do you have so many small data centers if they're allowed by right, because we legally can't stop them at that point.

1:40:50There's another reason why I believe that the CUP way is the way to go, because then we can clearly, we can clearly evaluate as to whether or not that particular data center is a good fit for the community or not.

1:41:10Okay, Councilmember commission woke us and go ahead and then Councilmember Bass. Thank you, sir. Just listening to the discussion. I'm curious to know from staff, is there any other zoning, not, not ordinance, because as you as well.

1:41:39Is there anything in zoning side of house that is that we're missing. When we start talking about data centers, a ways to being, I wouldn't say inviting, but at the same time have control of how our city is developing.

1:41:58Is there anything that we're missing as far as zoning gets concerned. Is there a type of zoning, or a policy that a city can invoke that would that we're just not looking at, not to say this, the answer, but just another option that we might have available.

1:42:18Well I think right now we're definitely missing, because it wasn't anticipated in our zoning ordinances are very old so there's no doubt we are right now and that's why the proposal was coming forward, not just to be allowed by right as say a restaurant in the correct

1:42:33zoning allowed by right in the correct zoning with multiple stipulations, not not just the regular zoning so it has the impact of a CUP, but with certainty knowing what those conditions are going up front and knowing that as long as they comply with those conditions.

1:42:54They can continue to operate. So I'm, I'm understanding that it's not a CUP but it's a development of a current zoning or ordinance that we have developing it in a way that it would meet our requirements or without saying it's a conditional use without a one by one, a one off.

1:43:18Yes, this is our policy. This is how if you're going to come here and do a data center you have to be this. Yes, and I think that's the key.

1:43:26We've all heard all sorts of problems with data centers so you look at all those problems they say, can we solve them or not and if you can solve them, put into the ordinance, whether it's much larger setbacks screening walls requirements on water use or the cooling maybe

1:43:43they don't use water at all there's there's a lot of ways to deal with all of those objections.

1:43:52Yes, regarding the data centers, and we will debate this at a future city council meeting.

1:44:03But since we're talking about it, I just want to state that I personally am in favor of the staff recommendation that was originally presented, which is data centers by right with very strict stipulation.

1:44:20I think that kind of accomplishes what we need to do. So I just want to go on record to say that I favor the original presentation but I'm interested in looking at what the ordinance looks like with those conditional use permits, then we can debate.

1:44:38Thank you, Commissioner stills.

1:44:43Yeah, that's kind of I was asking about CP earlier right. I actually, I agree with Commissioner Alvarez, and Mr. Kagle I think, I think we should be looking at our neighbors and how they've accomplished what they're doing.

1:45:03And I also think that right now, I don't have all the details obviously but I think just hearing where it's going, you're never, nobody's going to come here, there would be no reason when they can just go elsewhere.

1:45:18But at that point is right now the city needs to decide in the future of what they want to do fiscally, compared to, you know, these, the other issues that are being discussed right you have to find that balance and have that understanding and I just don't

1:45:38believe that the current route the CP would get you there so you know that that's kind of why I wanted to ask that but I wholeheartedly agree like we should be looking at what other cities have done that could have tried to mitigate those, but also

1:45:53have been extremely profitable in those footprints. And so, just want to put that out there.

1:46:02I was the understanding that if we have a general zoning, for example be five, then whatever is allowable within be five we have to allow that without the added restrictions per the business.

1:46:24So to hear that we can put it can say you can have a small data center in be five but we're going to put extra conditions on it, because of that industry. If we were going to do something like that because again I feel like I can understand where people

1:46:42know it may be something in the future where clean wants to go and bringing data centers in. I personally am opposed to bringing data centers to clean I do not think that is the way we need to be growing. I personally feel like we need to be bringing

1:46:56more industry that's going to be bringing in jobs, we can't be looking at just the just the property tax income that would come from it. However, it's not just up to Councilwoman Brown, it's going to be the community, the input from staff the input

1:47:17from planning and zoning, and then seven council members. But with that, I think that if this up is not the way to go, then we look at creating a and I think this might be where the Commissioner is coming from, we look at creating

1:47:37a specific data center zoning, where we can put those regulations for data center zoning in place, it's not necessarily conditional use permit, but those are all of the restrictions and the requirements in order to get approved

1:47:56for data center zoning. And that might be, I think, a middle ground compromise between what I'm hearing on one side, that might be too extreme, but the other side where I really feel it's too lax to open and does not allow us enough control over

1:48:14what we would be doing as far as guiding our city and setting that strategic path forward. So the clarification I would have to staff is, are we able to do something like that and have a special zoning, kind of like B five, or BC one rather, where

1:48:36it's a little bit more set aside, where we would have it say, these are for data center, you have to have the zoning for that in order to be approved.

1:48:48I don't generally recommend having a zoning district for one land use. I don't, I'm sorry, I don't generally recommend having one district for one particular land use.

1:49:08I think, I think what you're still getting at is the supplemental regulation idea of what was proposed and maybe just repackaging kind of understanding what that what that means would, would help in this scenario.

1:49:22Because I think what you're talking about would probably still be accomplished by those those tiers with the supplemental regulations, rather than just pulling it out completely and having it in its own separate zoning district.

1:49:37It's if we have any other industries where we say you would be allowable by right in this zoning type with additional requirements in that zoning car washes.

1:49:54And that is just that they have to have the water recycler correct. Right.

1:50:03So, what I would also say is that arguably every use has supplemental regulations attached to it for example, single family homes are allowed by right in our one subject to setback standards height limitations, those types of things so to Mr.

1:50:23This point what we're what staff is is suggesting is to allow data centers of different tiers by right in whatever zoning district is deemed appropriate with supplemental regulations related to water use, electrical use, acoustical studies and mitigating noise.

1:50:49Additional screening requirements additional setback requirements. So again, supplemental regulations are not something that would be unique to data centers. This is something you know we have a screening device requirement for when say a commercial use about the residential use.

1:51:04The screening device requirement is what we would consider a supplemental regulation in addition to the land use regulation itself.

1:51:11And I know that the question I'm about to ask goes beyond just zoning and typically happens in the planning phase but when we're considering an ordinance is important to consider the entirety of that process from beginning to end, not just about when it comes to zoning.

1:51:28And so, my question on that would be then, who would approve variances for those if they're allowed. Council doesn't get variances anymore. Who does zoning variances or our purview of the Board of Adjustment.

1:51:55Thank you, Mr. Mayor.

1:52:00You know, it's the way, it's the way things, the way things kind of, you know, go, go in a circle, and we started this meeting talking about, I wrote it right here my papers, strategic planning, because we're talking, we turn this friendly discussion to a strategic plan planning meeting.

1:52:16So I really think and I encourage my colleagues here in the very near future, let's have a strategic planning meeting, because I think we could probably answer a lot of questions as going back and forth here because we've turned this meeting into a strategic planning meeting.

1:52:32So I think, so, and a council meeting so I encourage us to vary in the very near future have a strategic planning meeting, even if it's just on two or three items, and of course that has been one of them, that we, that we, that we deal with these holistic questions

1:52:52and concerns. And so, help us forge the ordinance. That's, that's, that's what I think that we should do, Mr. Mayor. And I hope the council agrees. Councilmember Kendrick's and then councilmember Nashking.

1:53:09No, you can go ahead. Councilmember Kendrick's.

1:53:15I look, I'll be short and sweet, and I'm within a one minute.

1:53:21Okay. I just want to what I want to say when we, we like Councilmember Kimball said we were in the strategic talking already.

1:53:31But we can get so far behind we need to start thinking about the future and data centers are already there people like talking about electricity data centers are already we're on the same grid as temple already there, already taken up that electricity.

1:53:51So it's nothing that we're going to do that's going to change that. So, I'm within my time. That's all I wanted to say.

1:54:00Councilmember Nashking.

1:54:04Thank you, Councilmember Kendrick and Councilmember Kimball.

1:54:08Is that for staff purpose, all your recommendations, Councilmember Bass said it best. Nothing about picked up on it, we're discussing an item that the council is going to vote on it, and staff is right now just preparing things.

1:54:25So if you have recommendations on the data center slash data center, just send it to staff. This was the purpose your input, and then when they present it to us and we give it a vote do we want to add take away, because right now we're have, we're just talking about

1:54:44something that you don't even have what we already decided on. So you don't have the whole picture we do, but it's kind of fair with you not having it and we're just talking.

1:54:55So I just think all y'all should show up to our council meeting.

1:54:59We showed up here.

1:55:02This is what's working together, and just giving your input, or like Councilmember Kimball say maybe before it come before us to vote and make it an ordinance we can meet again and really just break it down, because I like what Councilmember, I mean Commissioner Wickerson stated but also Councilwoman

1:55:23Brown I heard her she's willing to negotiate, but then Councilmember Commissioner seals come and then he comes like hey, we're not going to get anyone. So all three of you tell you the truth with Ramon just sealing the deal.

1:55:39I mean, on commission ever is a seal in the deal, you all have great points, and that's just write them down and put them all together and let's move forward.

1:55:49So we can discuss it and fix it today. And now, that's just my opinion. Okay, there. Can I just mayor.

1:56:03I just wanted to make a point real quick about what the process is as directed already by Council with regard to with regard to data centers so we took that to Council and made the presentation that Miss measure was just was just going through about the the tears the small medium large.

1:56:21Council directed not to not to bring back that ordinance but to bring back an ordinance that required all to have a CUP. And so those are two different things. So the process moving forward with Council's direction was going to be that staff was going to bring an ordinance based on Council's direction

1:56:40regarding the CUP for data centers for all data centers to P and Z and P and Z could look at that and make their recommendation on that ordinance to Council.

1:56:51So if there's a different direction though because when you're asking for different comments and things some of these are opposed that those are two different routes going in all CUP process versus going the tiered by riot process.

1:57:06So if there's a different direction than what I've said now than what Council has already given. If you have that we can take that tonight.

1:57:14Thank you for cleaning that up. Thank you.

1:57:20Commission seal. Okay. All right. Moving on. Moving on to Madam Secretary. The next discussion item please. Okay. Item four. ds dash to six dash oh eight nine discuss frequency and format of joint meetings between the city council and the planning

1:57:46and sending commission.

1:57:51So, thank you. Thank you. So, first I just want to appreciate everybody's time and coming out today I think it was very informative.

1:58:00Again, the purpose of this was to have a format because we did not have a format where we could discuss things like this freely and understand what we're meeting what we're missing communication yes please.

1:58:10We're missing the mark as legislators for the city of clean. We are mid sized city that is growing exponentially, and we have important things that we as a body have to speak about, have to work out and have to plan for accordingly.

1:58:31There was no format for us to have this conversation, whether we're talking about our expectations of planning and zoning behavior early, or how we're supposed to conduct ourselves, or even as simple as what is the process for communication.

1:58:43It was a valid question. We did not have an answer nor do we have a process. So again, this was a very valuable and insightful meeting. I just wrote a recap start so I'm just going to kind of go through this and counsel if there's anything else that we

1:58:54had, my recommendation is a two year meeting. One is just for informative updates, anything that might be happening legislatively that's changing. And the last one annually I agree with Councilmember Kimball, that should be more of a strategic planning on

1:59:08an annual basis so one time a year for that so I think that there should be a recurring meeting just twice a year, one for informative updates the other one for a strategic planning for the following year for the future planning as was mentioned previously.

1:59:22This should be a mechanism for communication for healthy conversation and a platform to also be able to make sure that we're clearly conveying our messages to our staff, as we just heard our staff say, if we're not clearly conveying these messages they cannot operate and take our

1:59:37instruction and translate it. We just heard that. So this meeting also was informative for this respect. So now that we know that we need to do better job of communicating and this meeting should help that. So covering behavior and expectations, sharing information. My goal then would be to eventually provide direction to staff to cover historical priorities as an update to planning and zoning so that you guys are aware.

2:00:00We were able to provide feedback and input to us during that first meeting of the year.

2:00:09Also, we'll improve communications.

2:00:11Again, we're not here for consensus, just really understanding clarity.

2:00:15We talked about tools to help convey this process and some great ideas were given.

2:00:19There was a packet that Madam Nash King mentioned that could possibly be placed on our website.

2:00:26Council Member Kendrick mentioned frequently asked questions on the website.

2:00:29Also, P&Z partnerships and town halls was mentioned.

2:00:33I think that was a great idea so that we can incorporate those somehow.

2:00:37Tools to cover, to convey the process as well.

2:00:40Marketing 101 videos, you mentioned that as well and I think that's a fabulous idea as well for that process.

2:00:46It was also mentioned to talk about them and I think this was even better.

2:00:50The Citizens Academy was recommended to place that, a small blurb in there for them as part of that Citizens Academy onboarding.

2:00:57Also, I just want to make sure that if we decide to do this at least twice a year, that that first meeting, this would be that one.

2:01:04But talk about rapid changes for legislative updates specifically and then the second year, or the second meeting of that year would be the strategic planning moving forward.

2:01:13As you said, with two or three items.

2:01:15That's all I have, but I just want to say thank you all for coming out.

2:01:17This was very informative for me and I appreciate each and every one of you.

2:01:20Council Member Kimball and then Commissioner Cooper.

2:01:23Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Just for, I guess, a point of order for the Attorney.

2:01:32So if we've given you a motion of direction to bring back an ordinance with the CUPs.

2:01:44The previous item regarding data centers?

2:01:47If that's allowable, I don't.

2:01:54Okay.

2:01:57I was just thinking, because I was thinking about what you said, that I don't know if we can give you another motion based on conversation today.

2:02:06What an ordinance will look like with stipulations and not necessarily.

2:02:13Yeah, if the Council wanted to change its, I mean you gave a motion of direction to bring an ordinance back and take it through P&C.

2:02:25But the Council can, that was a staff-initiated conversation.

2:02:32Or I guess the alternative would be we just voted down when you bring it to us and then tell you to do it again.

2:02:37I mean, I'm just trying to work my way through it.

2:02:41That's actually why I brought it up so you could have the discussion.

2:02:44Things are moving kind of fast. I didn't catch it up, sorry.

2:02:47If you're going to, if you know you don't want to see that ordinance anymore and after discussion with P&C, you want to see something else.

2:02:55Then it would be helpful to give staff that direction on what you want to see.

2:02:59If you want to see an alternate with, you know, ordinance.

2:03:04Because there are two different ordinances that we're talking about.

2:03:08After listening to the discussion, listening to Mr. Cagle, listening to the commissioners,

2:03:14I think seeing what that alternative ordinance looked like would be fruitful as we move forward.

2:03:22So right now we are in item four, so Mayor, the discussion is on item three.

2:03:30We've moved on. It's a discussion item. It's on the agenda.

2:03:32If the Council wants to go back and consider something on a separate item, I just want to, for procedurally,

2:03:39we move to discussion item four and we're talking about discussion item three.

2:03:44Councilmember Kimball, so you wanted to make a motion?

2:03:50I would move that we, after hearing the discussion from this open meeting that we will reduce the rules on,

2:03:59that if we go back to DS26-088 and give a motion of direction to staff to bring back an alternative motion

2:04:08regarding data centers that has stipulations attached to it, not necessarily CPs.

2:04:21Okay, so you're making that motion?

2:04:22I did. The motion of direction.

2:04:24Motion of direction, yes.

2:04:26If a majority of the Council agrees.

2:04:31Okay, do we have a motion by Councilmember Kimball, second by Councilmember Kendrick?

2:04:39Is there any discussion? Councilmember Brown?

2:04:47I'm going to go back to this. This is supposed to be a work session to work out some stuff with planning and zoning,

2:04:56not to start changing motions of directions that we made at a council meeting.

2:05:01What staff is going to bring back is based on a motion that we've all already voted on.

2:05:06It came back in a majority.

2:05:08But they're also going to come back to us next time with whatever recommendations P&Z has to add to it.

2:05:16So P&Z could hear the whole thing, come back and recommend to go back to no CUP.

2:05:22But I think that we should really let this stand the way that the Council had it,

2:05:27especially because we're now making a motion on an item that we've already moved past.

2:05:33So I think that by procedure, Mayor, we shouldn't have even been discussing that again

2:05:40when we're already passed the item and we were supposed to be discussing just the frequency and format of joint meetings.

2:05:47So I feel like that was an inappropriate time for that motion to be made.

2:05:54City Attorney, you said that we clicked right.

2:05:57Yes, I'm correct. These are all discussion items. None of them are for formal action.

2:06:05This would be motion direction of something to bring back for formal action in the future.

2:06:09So I don't think it's inappropriate for Council to, if the Mayor wanted to say we can go back to a different discussion item

2:06:18or further discussion of motion of direction, we're in, again, this isn't formal action on a formal item.

2:06:25This is motion of direction on how we want staff to proceed. And there is benefit in lessening conflict.

2:06:33The rules aren't meant to, procedural rules aren't meant to, they're meant to help get the correct information forward.

2:06:41So if you're using the rules to bring something and make it more difficult, I think it would be appropriate.

2:06:50I'm saying if Council has a motion of direction to direct staff in a certain way so there won't be confusion,

2:06:55I think it's appropriate.

2:06:57Councilmember Kendricks.

2:07:00It's a motion of direction.

2:07:15Point of order. There was a call for a vote, Mr. Mayor.

2:07:20Point of order.

2:07:21Councilmember Nashking, I understand. Could you call you, hold it a minute.

2:07:24Point of order.

2:07:25I understand. Thank you.

2:07:28Point of order.

2:07:30City Attorney.

2:07:36There was a call for the vote and I'm not sure if I saw a second on that, but there's also been a request with multiple view for clarification.

2:07:47Are you making a second?

2:07:49I don't know what the motion is.

2:07:50So a second.

2:07:52All in favor?

2:07:53Prior to that clarification on the motion please, which is.

2:07:56It's called for the vote. They called for the vote.

2:07:58But no, because if we pass the call for the vote, then I can't ask my point of clarification on the primary motion.

2:08:05So I believe that I'm in order to ask for clarification before, I'm not discussing the call for the vote.

2:08:15We hear the point of order. We call for the vote. The vote is called for. All in favor signify by saying.

2:08:22But Mayor, if you can't state the motion, that's all.

2:08:26I'm sorry, I cannot hear you, Council.

2:08:32Say that again.

2:08:33I have the motion to bring back an ordinance with.

2:08:37Motion of direction.

2:08:38Tears and stipulations as as recommended by staff. That's what I wrote down.

2:08:45Okay.

2:08:46Without CPs.

2:08:48Okay. So when we call for the vote, we can go ahead and vote. Is that correct?

2:08:52We have a motion to call for the vote in a second. So we need to vote on that.

2:08:57Yes. All in favor, calling for the vote.

2:09:01Okay. The motion passed six to one. Councilmember Neschke.

2:09:14Point of order.

2:09:15Thank you.

2:09:16No discussion after call for the vote.

2:09:18Point of order.

2:09:19Point of order.

2:09:22You can't have discussion after the call for the vote.

2:09:27Robert rules and order means when a person called point of order,

2:09:36the chair should acknowledge that person point of order.

2:09:40You cannot pass.

2:09:41Councilmember Neschke you are correct.

2:09:44Points of order then.

2:09:49Into your own position you just had it needs to be addressed.

2:09:54Councilmember Brown.

2:09:55Let Councilmember Neschke talk please.

2:10:00Point of order.

2:10:01I have a point of order that.

2:10:07That because we have already had an affirmative call for the vote,

2:10:13there can be no more discussion.

2:10:15And that we have to vote on the motion that is on the table.

2:10:19Whether or not to call for the vote, we have not voted on the motion.

2:10:25That's correct. You voted on the call for the vote six to one.

2:10:29Can you repeat the motion that was made and we'll, we'll go ahead and vote.

2:10:33The motion.

2:10:34That was called for the vote.

2:10:37That was made by councilmember Kimball.

2:10:40By councilmember Kimball was to bring back an ordinance with the

2:10:47stipulations without CUP for the data centers.

2:10:50And it went six to one motion passed six to one.

2:10:57Yes, I understand it.

2:11:01Yes, sir.

2:11:02I do understand that Councilmember Kendrick.

2:11:04Okay, now we're going to vote on the motion.

2:11:10All those in favor signify by raising your hand.

2:11:16Those opposed.

2:11:17Those in favor signify by raising your hand.

2:11:19And that is of the motion that was made.

2:11:29All those in favor signify by saying yet raising your hand.

2:11:35I'm sorry.

2:11:36I'm thinking I'm at city council meeting.

2:11:38Raise your hand.

2:11:39That's one, two, three, four, five, six.

2:11:44Okay.

2:11:46The motion pass six to one.

2:11:50Although the poll, all those oppose six, six to one motion pass.

2:12:05Six to one.

2:12:06Councilmember Nash King, have we discussed number four?

2:12:12If not, we have, can I do a motion to adjourn?

2:12:16Have we discussed four?

2:12:18Oh, we have commissioner.

2:12:21Oh, my God.

2:12:22Continue, please.

2:12:30One of the things Mayor Pro Tem Gonzalez mentioned was, again,

2:12:35we're talking about the frequency in the meetings you mentioned every

2:12:39two years, if I could just suggest annually, because board members,

2:12:43we cycle out every two years.

2:12:45So by the time, maybe lining it up with the fiscal year.

2:12:48So we're appointed at the end of September, the new person,

2:12:51people come on in October.

2:12:53And so I think that's a great introductory because they do have

2:12:56their training.

2:12:57And so maybe that introduction to what's new, because every two

2:13:01years, this stuff is going to change.

2:13:03And whoever comes in next won't get that information.

2:13:07So we all cycle out every fiscal year.

2:13:09And then if I can make a suggestion in not only including P&Z,

2:13:13but Board of Adjustments and the TERS committee.

2:13:16I think those are the three boards that actually have like heavier

2:13:20conversations.

2:13:21Like, yes, we love everyone that has conversations about animal

2:13:25advisory, all the senior citizens Academy committee, but TERS,

2:13:30Board of Adjustments, P&Z, those are the development.

2:13:33Are you recommending for the strategic planning recommendation?

2:13:37Yeah, whether it's the strategic planning or the annual update.

2:13:40Thank you.

2:13:41But again, you mentioned two years.

2:13:42I think we should do every fiscal year.

2:13:44So you can catch all the new appointees and then including

2:13:48those other two boards, P&Z, Board of Adjustment and TERS.

2:13:52And that's what I got.

2:13:58You were going to tell him?

2:13:59Okay.

2:14:07We had a question.

2:14:09Both of us are taking notes.

2:14:11We thought we heard Mayor Pro Tem say that these meetings would

2:14:15be twice a year, not once every two years.

2:14:17Did I misunderstand?

2:14:20Twice a year.

2:14:21Thank you.

2:14:23Thank you.

2:14:24Thank you.

2:14:25Commissioner Wilkins.

2:14:29Thank you, Mr. Mayor.

2:14:33I go along with what Commissioner Cooper says.

2:14:36I think once a year is valid.

2:14:39Just given my experience with council, we had set up meetings

2:14:44before that were biannually meeting twice a year.

2:14:49And we really didn't get a lot out of it.

2:14:52Again, the comprehensive plan is a living document,

2:14:56but the city is a big ship.

2:14:58And it turns slowly, not enough to warrant, I think,

2:15:02two meetings per year.

2:15:04I think the one meeting per year, along with what she said,

2:15:09the other boards, the TERS, and the Board of Adjustments

2:15:13is warranted.

2:15:15And I think we should also, as far as format goes,

2:15:18we spent an hour and a half agreeing on the first two items.

2:15:25I think that's pretty known among professionals,

2:15:29among adults, that we have to live by those rules

2:15:35and guide ourselves by those rules.

2:15:37So I think we can maybe cut those two out

2:15:39and just deal with the issues that would

2:15:41change the comprehensive plan.

2:15:48OK, I want more of these meetings to be longer.

2:15:51That's mine.

2:15:52Cool.

2:15:53[LAUGHTER]

2:15:55No, so, all right.

2:15:59Got fired on my first day.

2:16:05No, I want two clarifications real quick.

2:16:08So I agree with the twice a year.

2:16:11I think one needs to be a planning update meeting,

2:16:14and then a second meeting that is solely strategic.

2:16:19Very early in this meeting, three hours ago,

2:16:23somebody mentioned that we should have a staff briefing

2:16:28as part of these meetings.

2:16:29I wanted to reiterate that.

2:16:30I think we want to have--

2:16:32and I think it will help if we have a staff briefing

2:16:35because it will set an agenda that we can follow

2:16:38and kind of keep us on pace.

2:16:40So I just want to reiterate that two meetings per year,

2:16:44one planning update, one strategic,

2:16:46and then that both staff would be providing

2:16:49a briefing and an agenda that we would follow.

2:16:52Thank you.

2:16:54Councilmember Bass.

2:16:56Whether we decide on one or two meetings per year,

2:17:01I just want to say that this meeting has been very valuable

2:17:04to me and to let the commissioner--

2:17:07let the chairman and the commissioners know that watching

2:17:11your planning and zoning meetings on the videos

2:17:16is essential to me preparing myself

2:17:19for the city council meetings.

2:17:21So I appreciate your work,

2:17:23and I appreciate being able to watch those videos.

2:17:25Thank you.

2:17:26I'd like to hear from the chairman.

2:17:37Mr. Mayor, city council, thank you guys

2:17:43for having this meeting.

2:17:45It is or was a valuable meeting for everybody involved.

2:17:52I think everybody learned a lot.

2:17:54I think some things that needed to be discussed

2:17:57were discussed.

2:17:59Some outcomes, some positive outcomes

2:18:02will happen from this meeting,

2:18:05and I look forward to the next one.

2:18:07I do.

2:18:09I do.

2:18:10Yeah, I do.

2:18:15Councilmember Leshkin, all in favor?

2:18:21Aye.