2026-11-05 - Business and Community Affairs Committee

All right, everybody. It is 4:00 time for the Thursday, November 5th business and community affairs meeting for the city of Norman. We have one agenda item on the list. I apologize. We were going to

have a second and the presenter for that like they couldn't make it, so we've moved them to December. So I'm sorry. We just have one agenda item. But the agenda item is the discussion regarding

entering into a contract with the Cleveland County Economic Development Coalition. And with that, I believe the city manager and and then we also have

>> illustrious [name] from the city attorney's office. We have the last draft of the proposed contract between the city of Norman and Cleveland County Economic Development Coalition. And over time

discussions had continued about what seemed to be a primary concern, the lack of publishing audited financial statements. [name] is the president of the Cleveland County Economic Development

Coalition.

>> He is the chair of the board.

>> Chair of the board, thank you. And I I believe all of the outstanding audits are current I mean current current year is the exception. And a discussion if the Cleveland County Economic Development

Coalition would consider a provision in the agreement to allow the mayor at his discretion to uh show up at CCEDC and review all the audits and financial statements and all of those records that they

would prefer not to be published but would be available for viewing uh by the mayor. So that was the last I had heard about any uh proposed um changes or amendments or additions to the agreement. Um

what you see here is I think the last thing Council had reviewed uh many months ago. So um the chair of the board is here and and if there's uh questions to be answered this is a great place to

>> And so previously my understanding is when we were a member of this you were the City of Norman's representative.

>> Correct.

>> And so you're their representative so the the ask now is to have the mayor um as the elected official to also be able to like look at the financials and make sure money's going where we're going

just in case.

>> That yeah that was the last uh the last I had heard. So um we'll see if if that's where Council's headed.

>> Uh [name].

>> Um I kind of have a memory of wasn't there a question if they were allowed to meddle in elections?

>> Yeah there was some previous language in the previous agreement specific to that um and I had some conversations with uh [name] about that and yeah cuz he put something out in the paper last

election cycle. Yeah I I think what I was reading through these old emails this morning what he was saying is is um certainly they're not going to and and [name], jump in here if I say anything wrong

not going to endorse candidates or anything like that but but if an economic development project becomes political they also don't want a provision in the agreement that forbids them from from in

advocating for the project.

>> how

>> does the board and their director when he's out there in the paper writing that council needs to change?

>> That that's a question for the board president, I would say.

>> City of Norman in this situation would have a would not only be a board member would be on the executive committee on municipalities.

>> So, the mayor would be like why are you meddling in our elections? Maybe you're not the appropriate director. We want to switch.

>> Uh the mayor no, it would be the professional professional staff member of the city of Norman would be the board seat. The mayor would be allowed to come view financials or whatever is needed.

>> So, the professional member would be there.

>> My my voice is your voice when it comes to those votes.

>> So, you would be telling [name] it's highly inappropriate

>> If that is the direction we receive, absolutely. With

>> that's how I feel and if we do this, I would like that communicated.

>> Was this the last I'm sorry.

>> It was the 2026 election cycle for

>> But we wasn't in agreement with them at all. We was out of that agreement with them, correct, during that cycle?

>> Does

>> We didn't We didn't have no active agreement at all. We'd already broken it, our contract.

>> Does it matter if he wants to be in agreement with us? Like

>> I I believe it matters greatly if you have a contract with somebody if you're going to try to say that because of the contract that should not have been able to do that because it says it in the

contract when there's no contract that was there at all. I think it does matter.

>> I don't agree with you and I think it's a bad look, but I hear you.

>> That's fine though. Other council members still?

>> Yeah. Just kind of like a general comment. No offense to our current mayor, but I I believe it'd be a more appropriate for our city auditor we just hired to look look at the financials. I mean, if

the mayor wants to too, I mean, maybe that could be fun or you work with it, but I think it should be city auditor specifically and the mayor or just to say it, you know, whatever. But just throwing

that out there.

>> [name], did you have your hand up earlier?

>> No, I'm sorry.

>> [name].

>> A couple of things. So, I've seen relationships with auditing large scale contractors on fixed-price contracts where there's non-disclosure what was revealed in that audit except for, hey, they had

material weaknesses. Or everything passed. All their systems are good as far as public release. So, if I was a in the fixed-price environment contractor, I would want that. And hey, you can't release

details besides, hey, my systems are good. There are no material weaknesses.

>> Or the contrary if that were the case.

>> [clears throat]

>> The other thing is if, you know, when I look at fairness, are we going to have some pact provision in all our other contracts the city does related to political activity?

>> Our my bylaws state that we will not engage in any political activity. The only thing we support would be business development or like state questions that would benefit economic growth in

Cleveland County.

>> We we do have similar uh provisions when we work with Visit Norman. Uh we we tell them not to promote, you know, [snorts] the visitors tax elections uh because there's a provision in state law

about using tax dollars for certain elections. So, we do see that some, but we certainly not uniformly across the board.

>> I think it's a good thing to have it across the board for all contractors that we deal with. All grants. And they they shouldn't be political well. [snorts] So, any grant the city does, any

contract the city does don't get political well. I think [name], you are up.

>> Yeah. [clears throat] I just was wondering about if if as mayor I was privy to that, would I be able to share it with the council or are you able to as city manager? How would the rest of council

>> So, what what I think

>> know what's going on.

>> would make um sense is as as we set up with the the new city auditor, uh her platform to keep council up to date is the finance committee once a month kind of a regularly reoccurring agenda item

from the city auditor and we can absolutely uh on the the same finance committee agenda provide updates from the Cleveland County Economic Development Coalition and there are things that and and and

we've had such conversations they are uh publicly traded on the Securities Exchange Commission and they they can't come out and say oh it's you know Boeing and they want to build a plant because it

could impact share values. So there are lots of communications that can come from uh board meetings. They also have some executive sessions on real property matters. They own industrial property here

in Norman and we had a similar question at ACOG 911 just a couple of weeks ago about the elected officials on the board being privy to executive session information and kind of a debate about one city

said I don't share any of that with my council because those are the same rules we follow for executive session on my city council and other city said oh no I go back and tell council everything. So

the a little bit of of uh uh lack of understanding as to what is shareable and and what needs to be confidential. Um and I think the lion's share of the highly confidential stuff it's it's not it's

less of a question of public knowledge and more of a question of if that winds up in social media you know we're going to lose this project. So uh but I think the finance committee does provide an

excellent opportunities for monthly updates on here's how many projects were currently pursuing on real estate in Norman, Oklahoma.

>> And does the designee have to be the city manager? Can it be the assistant city manager, city attorney, auditor? Could it be any of you? Or does it have to be the the executive?

>> Yeah, the current draft um says it's the city manager.

>> And I think there because the charter says there there there will be a city manager uh that kind of you know lasts into perpetuity in that respect. I do think Moore has sent um an assistant city

manager on occasion. So if we need to spell out alternates I if an if an assistant city manager or a city auditor or a city attorney could be an alternate.

>> Technically in the competing against for these jobs retaining it is a massive asset for our organization and the city of Norman for the city manager to be there because we're looking at a deal in

two seconds we can say we've got water here, we've got sewer here or no that's too much of an overload for our infrastructure. Yes, it's going to work. It's just a massive uh advantage for the city of

Norman and and growing jobs and making sure we're having the right fit of the jobs the that the city of Norman wants.

>> [name].

>> So my next question [clears throat] like when we're out looking for jobs and everything and you're going to be there like OKC is under a moratorium but they just signed a huge hyperscale data

center contract. If y'all's not allowed to talk to us then how do we know if something like that's going on?

>> The I think that's the value going the other way that if uh a data center approached CCEDC and say we like this piece of real estate in Norman, I'm the guy who says there's a moratorium on data

centers we're we're we're not that's not going to be a fit here at all. And it's not my opinion it is always the opinion of the council that gets carried to that discussion with whoever the potential

developer is.

>> So then if we can get a conversation going and we end up saying, okay, we'll allow it as long as it's not going to use more than 40,000 gallons of water a month and not going to use more than uh 40

mega uh megawatts of mega megawatt hours uh per day, we're going to allow this, then that would give y'all an idea of

>> And excellent point with with [name] and [name], the thought of in a scenario um if it's our real property and somebody knocks on the door and says, we'd like to buy this piece of property from the

city of Norman, here's what we want to do. We can go into executive session in that set of circumstances. I don't know if it's a piece of property owned by the Cleveland County Economic Development

Coalition on something like that, could could we do executive session with council?

>> I don't think so. Um we can look at that a little more. I I would say that any project like that is going to come to council at some point because the CCEDC can't grant zoning, they can't uh do

water use agreements, they you know, all of the things that you guys do regularly, they can't do those things. And so those type of projects will end up coming to the city no matter what's happening

at CCEDC if it's happening in Norman.

>> And we wouldn't want them to waste any time.

>> That's my point is they're spending a lot of money and time. Uh so I wouldn't want false hope in any way, shape or form.

>> Understand.

>> That's all I had to ask.

>> [name]?

>> Maybe I lost I got lost in the conversation here, but I thought we were just talking about financials. So anything above financials, if you guys were involved in recruiting uh I don't care what

business, you provide some type of insight over over a period of time.

>> Yes. And the city manager

>> So we're here are we here to talk about finances and release of finances?

>> Well or the the agreement, the that relationship.

>> entire thing.

>> So the the primary caveat was access to those audited financial statements.

>> [name].

>> Yeah. Maybe remembering this wrong. So please correct me if I'm remembering correctly, but I seem to recall last time this came up in a conversation and it might have been before my time, but there

was like a a ticking clock because there was like a founding like a founding member of the coalition at the diamond Doppler diamond division level. If we did go into agreement, are we no longer going

to be a founding member at the Doppler diamond division level? And if so, like what would we come in at? What's the difference? Etc etc.

>> But the Doppler really the municipalities are all uniform. The contracts are uniform in the municipality. You get those same I would say rights you have the city manager would be you'd be the city

would be a would be a board member and our executive committee. So it's the same.

>> It's the same. Okay. And then this is more if there was a contract, if we did agree to go forward with the contract, a general comment I have is I I don't know if if these dates are set in stone

from July to July, but because you have to provide notice, I would like to see something closer to I don't know let's just say a regular calendar year, you know, January 1st to December 31st because

I'm thinking with the way our our elections are set up, if this is a yearly contract and council does turnover, they could provide input on continuing the contract and provide or providing that notice

if that's the direction a future council wants to go and I just want to give them time to do that.

>> I think with the July thing though that it kind of is the calendar year for the city, you know, they go from June to

>> Yeah, we have some charter provisions that were adopted that will be coming into effect with the next 2028 cycle where council members were will start being seated in April right after the runoff.

So that gives

>> I mean that's I mean I I don't know if that 90 days is flexible at all but that's still like very tight if incoming council members did have an opinion on on a a year contract.

>> And and [name] did those provisions adopted by council cuz April is the runoff if there was one. Did it mention if you either don't have an opponent or you win the election in February you still

get sworn in in April not February. Okay I just wanted to make sure that was clear in my mind.

>> The agreement also is subject to annual appropriation of funds. We can't enter into debt

>> Okay.

>> with general fund dollars without an election of the people. So we are we are always tied to the fiscal year regardless because we have to appropriate those funds and if we don't appropriate those

funds when you all adopt the budget then the contract is no longer in effect anyway.

>> Fair enough. And then just kind of like a miscellaneous comment depending on how long these conversations go on you know for expanding EDAB this is about economic development. I think we should be

making use of an economic development advisory board and so I mean if they have input on this contract or have they given input on on this specific language in the past. Okay. I I think that that'd be

good just to hear their opinion depending on what the timeline of all this is. And it it may be another just paperwork thing that doesn't change anything in reality but I think long term we should be

focusing on a a hybrid model with NEDA like internal and external. So if you know maybe this contract is with NEDA instead of the city of Norman and then that that way we could at least start the

process of having this trust for economic development you know actually do something and that could develop as time goes on.

>> Mr. Mayor. Remind me how many total board members are there? Is it just one per entity or

>> Yes.

>> And then how many is the executive committee?

>> Six right now.

>> And how many Okay. Is it So the same number executive committee and regular board of the same people?

>> much bigger. The board also has seats for Sooners and Sooners and that's for private [clears throat] sectors and

>> thinking of the cities

>> Okay.

>> Okay. So it is more It is more focused. Okay.

>> [name]

>> Yeah, just I know a hiccup last time was about some of the financials and things like that. I just like to bring bring a little bit of perspective that when you actually look at the past contracts

and add all the dollar amounts that's been paid in in 29 years the city's put in 2.755 million into this already. And just recently what we've gotten out of that 2.7 million is we have a $1 million

bike trail that goes all the way to Lake Thunderbird that's going to be able to bring recreational life back to people that want to stay here and work here, play here. We got a state-of-the-art

aviation program for all of our kids going through our all of our schools to give them something to look forward to to be able to have a real paying job when they get out of school maybe be able to

thrive in Norman, Oklahoma also with the extended runway and terminal that wouldn't have been possible. They got the startup that literally is on the brink of the their innovation hub kicking off with

capital capital ventures that are ready to invest in these businesses that are coming in and studying with them and everything. And the technology brought to the call center that's already created

multiple jobs within the city of Norman. So I mean as a whole I truly believe in the last three years, four years that we've gotten our 2.755 million dollars back with interest. And the fact that we

can rejoin for $130,046 rather than trying to create something in-house that some businesses, you know, we could maybe be looking at oh you you favored them in that deal why, you know, and getting

nitpicked all day long. To have these people already up and going and already kind of worked through their kinks, I think there's no better option than that for us right now to get a return on our

investments as quick as possible.

>> [snorts]

>> All right. Um

>> I was just going to say I I uh I would like EDAP to take a look and

>> Mhm.

>> see what they all think, especially well, I don't know. We could wait until there's additional people on it or do it now, but cuz we'd be talking about approving if we if we if the council decides

to that we do want to join the county economic development coalition, would that be a June thing or a January thing?

>> Mr. Chair, I I don't know if there's a preference

>> as approving I mean approving funding to do it and when it takes effect or

>> So, I think the current fiscal year budget, that line item still exists. It's just sitting there. Um so I I I council would have the ability to say we want to make this effective uh July 1, 2027

and not a not a problem with that at all or uh because the provisions as it currently reads, it's it is fiscal year July 1 through June [clears throat] 30.

>> So, even if we decided now, it wouldn't be uh effective until the fiscal year is what

>> if that's what

>> yeah, we we we could make it effective sooner

>> So, that okay.

>> if you all want to, but

>> And this wouldn't be the official document either cuz we have to add on those

>> amendments to it.

>> Okay.

>> So, that could give us some time to put whatever we want and put that in front of the new EDAP

>> Yeah.

>> potentially if we just appoint people.

>> But we could say it's effective after we decide to rejoin them.

>> Mhm. Yeah, it could be effective whenever you guys are ready to do it. And we could also take it to the existing EDAP just so you get that perspective. It's not going to be all 11 members that were

planning for or or even nine, but that's it is seven members uh representing uh those qualified

>> canceled this to begin with.

>> interests, so um that's also an option.

>> I mean also I'm I'm fine with that, but that's a a little bit of a selfish take cuz there is a Ward 6 representative on there now. So I I I don't mind uh you know a partially E-DAB and and round

two E-DAB if if need be, but

>> [name].

>> Yeah, I also echo the E-DAB review and I do like the internal auditor helping the ability to look over things.

>> [name].

>> I just wanted to turn back to my original statement about uh [clears throat] specialized clause for political activity associated with grants and contracts. I think it's a good idea for the city. I

mean so there's a separation.

>> [name].

>> I like the idea of putting it before an E-DAB center rather than later, although I would like them to see the newer version, not the 2023 version. Like do we have a ballpark of what the cost would

be now versus 2023? I mean I know it's still a dollar per capita, but has our I don't know if it is

>> It's the same price. Unless you bring somebody else in the town tomorrow.

>> [laughter]

>> I mean

>> We won't do it on game day cuz it yeah.

>> Right.

>> Yeah, yeah. I think the political involvement is definitely worthy of discussion. Um I think the example that has been used is an entity advocating against board members or against the city for

something. Um and that being viewed as a conflict uh potentially, but you know we give money to Salvation Army. They would not be able to advocate for their project if it were to go to a vote of the

people. I guess it depend on what we consider political activism.

>> That that was actually part of the the conversation about political activity is one person might see that as well this is support for a job creation and the other person may look at it and say no

that's that that's political.

>> So City Care wouldn't have been able to advocate for the shelter passage. But at the same time we're saying this visit Norman can't advocate for the passage of the visitor tax.

>> So the visitor tax is their sole source of funding. I think the difference is we other entities we wouldn't want them using the money the city gets from political activity.

>> Yeah. So I mean it could Yeah. I wouldn't want to prohibit me to give a lot of we give money to a whole lot of organizations that advocate for themselves and that could be viewed as political

activism. Um but I mean I think we need to be have a consistent view of that city funds being spent and people not using it to then advocate against the city in a you know or some way like that but

that could could be tricky but I I mean I I think it's a definite worthy thing we need to look at.

>> Yeah you see it you see it all the time where someone's sitting in an office and they flow funds to an entity that If it's an election or or or a position that that particular entity has it's like

okay there's a conflict of interest right there instead of thinking uh you know as a you know I mean I'm I'm thinking about this independently. I'm not going to be influenced. You know I'm not going

to just because I support this this incident entity uh it's it's it's independent thought it's independent decision. It's not based upon oh my relationship or my future windfall or my future cause.

>> [name].

>> Yeah I mean not to get too off topic but just kind of similar line with the mayor said um you you if we wanted a boiler plate like political clause, you know, I I think we could discuss that. I

just kind of lean more on the side of like free speech thing. So if we're going to prevent entities from from not doing that, then I that's that's one thing. But, you know, individuals within those

entities should still be able to tell us how much they hate us and you know things like that.

>> [laughter]

>> Or they could jump and tell us how much they love us cuz that happens a lot.

>> [laughter]

>> [name] is great.

>> You can go ahead back to I think you might have a follow up.

>> I agree with you, you know, on an individual level, but a lot of times at an individual level, the person that's running the organization is turned around and using that those funds that were

provided to to push an idea.

>> I I agree with you for sure.

>> You have to be very careful. And so you know, it's great when you have independent thought. [clears throat] [name].

>> Um I guess I'd like to ask the chair if you know maybe no listen everybody kind of discussed tonight if maybe this can be also added on to a study session where we could actually break down what

everybody's kind of looking at adding on and things like that and try to make official document for EDAB to look at and everything, you know, and stuff. Or you know bring it back to

>> Absolutely.

>> do it in either way and everything like that. But I do want to do it where we're all together and all of us can have a say in what we're going to create before we send it over to EDAB. That way

it's what everybody is like-minded on and everything for sure.

>> [name]. You can have all the kind of wants and asks and

>> Yeah, I can work on a draft and I'll work obviously with CCEDC to make sure it's something that we're going to be able to and and bring that back for

>> And and we can do this two ways. We can take it to existing BACA based on today's comments and then back to you with BACA's comments or with EDAB's comments or you can see it again before it goes

to EDAB, however you'd like to.

>> I I think EDAB with the meeting minutes obviously, and then also they could make their own like hey like we think this would be good but you know none of you all at this table thought of it, you

know that way it could go into the the draft, you know.

>> Mr. Mayor.

>> So we might be able to convene EDAB before the 3rd of December?

>> Maybe.

>> Before the next Bacco meeting if that is the intent. I don't know if that's

>> I'll reach out to them and see uh

>> So if they see if they see the version with EDAB's comments comes back to council, we make some changes, we maybe send it back to them again.

>> Yeah, I'll reach out and get their availability.

>> Then if it comes back to Bacco and we get everything hashed out, cost and discussed, then could it go to big meeting

>> Mhm.

>> agenda?

>> Yeah.

>> Okay. Um do we have consensus [snorts] to move forward with the additions? Okay, perfect. Thank you. Does anybody have any more questions, any comments? All right, well with that this meeting

adjourned.

>> How do you do it? I wish I wish