2026-10-01 - Stormwater Management Advisory Commission

00:12to the Walnut Creek uh wetland center

00:15for hosting this to rec

00:19um

00:21notice that uh in this call to order the

00:23meeting is being recorded by video and

00:25audio means the recordings will be

00:26posted on the city's website for public

00:28viewing and listening.

00:30In-person attendees of this meeting will

00:32be included in the recording. By

00:34remaining in this meeting, inerson

00:35attendees agreed with both images and/or

00:37voices may be included in this request.

00:40We have a two requests for excused

00:43absences

00:44and

00:47hoping that Colin and Barrett will join

00:50us soon.

00:53We excuse all four or should we

00:56>> I would suggest excuse the two that we

00:58know of now. If we need to come back the

01:01other two, we can check.

01:07>> Okay. So we'll look for a motion to

01:10excuse uh and Nichol

01:17second. All in favor of excusing.

01:20>> Okay. Yeah.

01:25>> Yeah. Thanks to Scott,

01:30>> right?

01:32>> Yeah. Maybe that's where Barrett talking

01:34about right now. [laughter] I have made

01:37that mistake because

01:40um Scott distributed the meeting minutes

01:43from September 3rd

01:45and would like to open the floor for

01:48motions to approve andor conversations.

01:59>> Second. Thank you. Any discussion? All

02:03in favor of approving the minutes?

02:05Thank you, Scott, for taking good care

02:07of us on votes and minutes.

02:11Um, public comments. This is an

02:13in-person meeting. Comments may be made

02:15by attendees uh upon registering. This

02:18person meetings indicating they'd like

02:19to speak. The meeting also publicly

02:22livereamed. Comments cannot be accepted

02:24during the meeting using those virtual

02:26methods. Um comments communications from

02:30residents should be sent via email

02:31address to rale scopec.gov.

02:34>> I don't think we had a anybody signed up

02:37to speak.

02:39>> Not yet. Okay. Thank you.

02:41>> All right. Now we're on the planning

02:42commission and leaison.

02:48Have you had a chance? Uh Ben and I

02:51spoke yesterday morning and there's one

02:54case that has a little bit of storm

02:56water mentioned in it. Um that is going

02:58to go over in North.

03:00>> Okay. Thank you.

03:02>> And the other thing is we're seeking

03:04we're still looking for is planning

03:06commission have they appointed the

03:07liison yet?

03:07>> They did. They did. Okay.

03:10>> Yes. And he'll be joining us for future

03:12meetings which will always take place

03:13the same week.

03:19Yes. And he was he was the leazison for

03:23like a week for a month and they changed

03:26change the chairship and so they had to

03:29turn out to be ahead. So

03:31>> it's fine. Yeah.

03:33>> Anyway, um like uh like uh Commissioner

03:40C said, we have a case Z4325609

03:44road. If you guys have driven in this

03:46area, you still sign for but [snorts] um

03:49uh this has already been planned and

03:52it's scheduled a public hearing uh

03:54Tuesday night. There were uh

03:59uh sort of where Atlanta becomes liter

04:01if you know that area near near Dixie

04:03forest spring forest area.

04:06uh currently zones R4 uh requesting R

04:10six conditional use weather conditions

04:12that they're offering right now is the

04:13rate of storm water be controlled to

04:1525ear storm and as I said the public

04:17hearing is set for Tuesday this case has

04:19seen a lot of questions about all all

04:22sorts of things traffic storm water

04:26height um

04:28uh fit for lack of a better term and so

04:32there's been a lot of neighborhood uh up

04:36up up up up up up up up up up up up up

04:36up up up up up up up upswell about this

04:37one but but I do think they've uh got

04:40some storm water uh complaints around

04:44this property and some are actually in a

04:46different drainage basin which this this

04:48big blue line is the drain bas line.

04:51Everything um north is Perry and

04:54everything south is uh Marsh I believe

04:57Marsh and um so any complaints on this

05:00side of the island obviously wouldn't

05:02wouldn't have anything to do with this

05:03case because doesn't get get there but

05:06there are a few

05:09channel erosion cases and things like

05:11that. So that's what the applicant added

05:15in the 25-year storm detention. Uh

05:18stormwater staff has gotten a laundry

05:19list of questions from neighbors about

05:21this project and we just kind of got the

05:23standard answers. This is what we're

05:24looking for

05:26site plan things like that. But they

05:28have a whole bunch of issues with

05:31traffic as well because this area if you

05:33know it is still looks a little rural

05:36for lack of better term. It's like

05:37two-lane

05:39uh in the shoulder section.

05:42Um any development would have to improve

05:45the roadway in front of their property

05:49the entire road. So um a lot of issues

05:53on that. I did want to give you a sense

05:55because once we met yesterday, this is

05:56actually a zoom in on on the tobo. So

06:00they're kind of the existing res house

06:02is kind of the top of the hill now. So

06:05So they're not really

06:07um draining in one specified manner and

06:10they have options to drain to public

06:12right away public rideway. So there are

06:14options and the one staff comment that

06:17we did make the change in their

06:18condition was to control 25 storm at

06:21each point of discharge since there's

06:22not one point of discharge. So but this

06:26is what the carpet looks like currently.

06:29which says four residential house with a

06:30decent size

06:32uh driveway apartment that area and um I

06:39do believe the residents are a little

06:40bit nervous because if you go back to

06:42this picture there's a couple other

06:45bigles around that could potentially

06:47subdivide later. So I think that's what

06:49and all these other residential

06:50properties are are forward as well. So

06:56from our perspective fits the condition

06:59they're offering.

07:00>> Correct.

07:00>> And most stream there's no flood plane.

07:03>> Yeah.

07:04>> There's no flooding on the chase of

07:07neighbors that we that you have correct.

07:09No

07:12there's not any document flooding

07:15near this site to automatically trigger

07:18any UDO storm requirements or anything

07:20like that. And there's no real cases,

07:22but I mean it definitely would have an

07:24impact on this pocket being arc. So I do

07:26understand why neighbors are concerned

07:28and and I don't want to speak for

07:30commission. We mentioned that storm

07:32water is mentioned in a lot of these

07:33cases. It's like a nice thing to kind of

07:36add add to the list of things that are

07:39wrong with the site.

07:41And you mentioned that there have been

07:44reports about erosion that were in some

07:46of the comments, but those were in the

07:48Marsh Creek water shed and this property

07:50drains completely anticipated.

07:52>> Yeah, there was more in the Marsh Creek.

07:54There's one or two in this drain basin,

07:56but it's far under way, but there's

07:59there's um

08:01erosion and street flooding in this

08:03area, but the city just finished a Dix

08:05road project in this area, too, that was

08:06supposed to handle some of that as well.

08:08And also this is an open I mean just to

08:10location that's about to where we are

08:17and with the R six they could go to town

08:19homes but not apartments that

08:26>> yeah I think it's good to be aware of

08:28these that is a storm water condition

08:30added and storm water issues mentioned

08:33but I would agree that you know I don't

08:35think I don't see a lot

08:37on what our concern on this case.

08:41>> So far in the past couple meetings,

08:43we've been a lot we haven't had hardly

08:46any cases that have any storm water or

08:47human conditions attached to them.

08:49That's why the schedule.

08:52How many times do people offer up 25

08:55years? Is it like 110 cases kind of

08:58thing or is it I wouldn't say it's a

09:01it's a every case or anything like that

09:04but I think it it was it was something

09:07the neighbors were talking about that

09:08they were concerned about storm water

09:10because all their public right away is a

09:12ditch and shoulder section. So they're

09:13worried about what's what's it going to

09:15do to ditches downstream and things like

09:17that.

09:24Yeah, there's multiple sides around

09:25town. Like if you driven through this

09:26area

09:31and just like I say, we have got laundry

09:33list of questions concerned citizens.

09:36That's us in planning and transation.

09:39We've all kind of had long list of stuff

09:41to answer today.

09:46Thanks. So that's information

09:50that

10:03so um we do have on our agenda later

10:06today um hopefully a final review of the

10:10fiscal year 27 work plan and fiscical

10:13year 26 annual report. Um uh we would

10:18ideally like to approve it today so that

10:20we can take it to city council on the

10:22November 4th council. I'm going to just

10:25note for everyone um that that first

10:28council meeting in November is on

10:30Wednesday because Tuesday is an election

10:32is election day. So they move that

10:34council meeting be Wednesday. And so I

10:37think uh chair you're planning to be

10:39there to present it that everyone's

10:41welcome to attend or stream if you'd

10:44like to to see. It'll be a short

10:45presentation of the work annual report

10:48as we do annually.

10:52>> Um is it whatever that Wednesday is

10:55meeting?

10:57The meeting will be the fourth. Yeah.

10:58Yeah. Tuesday is the third which would

11:00normally be the first Tuesday the

11:02council meeting but because that's

11:04election day it will be on the fourth

11:07and our meeting is on the 5th. our

11:09meetings on the correct correct

11:14no staff updates. Uh quick overview of

11:18we did have the North Carolina uh ABWA

11:22Stormwater Conference in Winston Salem a

11:24couple weeks ago. Uh the team was lucky

11:27enough to have a couple of awards. Um,

11:30the Gibson Play Plaza was recognized.

11:32This is Storm Alert award and Scott

11:34Bryant was nice enough to nominate me

11:36for an award which I which I received

11:38which was very exciting

11:45and then stormwater staff delivered two

11:47presentations at the conference. one of

11:49which you will see today. Eric Mayor is

11:53presenting the same presentation on the

11:55Glenwood Crest project that he presented

11:58at at the conference and then um our

12:01asset management team uh Sherry, Claudia

12:04and Kinley also presented on some pure

12:07pipe lining uh projects that that they

12:09did. So both both were very

12:11wellreceived. We were well represented

12:13at the conf. There is a um a survey that

12:18our flood plane team has been um u

12:22putting out to the to the public.

12:23They've made a number of mailings. Uh

12:26there's a link here if you're interested

12:28in uh filling it out, but we're just

12:30looking at what the survey is related to

12:32flood risk awareness. And this is part

12:35of a strategic initiative that um our

12:38team is is working on to assist

12:40residents who live in floodprone areas

12:43uh become more aware and and understand

12:45better what resources are available for

12:47them in terms of potential flood

12:50insurance or or so forth and especially

12:53focus on um renters who may not be as

12:56aware that the um that the home they

12:58live in is is

13:01how many people about that are not

13:04directly city or

13:08>> so far we have done direct mailings um I

13:12believe I'm not sure if someone's here I

13:14think it was 1,800 um direct mail cards

13:18were sent out area you remember how many

13:20we sent out from the tele

13:26>> okay there but yeah it was a direct mail

13:29but they're exploring other methods as

13:32well this is is part of strategic

13:34initiative is trying different ways of

13:36of reaching folks who sometimes may be

13:38hard to reach. See what um success rate

13:41we we have. Um because you know, and

13:44we've talked about this before. Um

13:47people who own their homes are usually

13:50more aware that they're in a flood plane

13:52or a flood run area because their

13:54mortgage company makes them buy flood

13:56insurance. Whereas there is not a um a

13:59similar disclosure

14:02method for rent to know or understand

14:05and there's no legal requirement at the

14:08federal or state level to require

14:10disclosure by landlords that um to their

14:13to their tenants. Um there has been

14:15discussion of of um whether that could

14:18be a a potential federal policy in the

14:21in the future. U but so far it's it's

14:24it's not got um got a lot of traction at

14:27the federal or state level.

14:34>> Thank you. So 1800 direct direct mail I

14:37think we got maybe in the 40ish range of

14:40responses so far. So, um, yeah, and pass

14:43along or if if you would know anyone who

14:46would, you know, be interested in

14:48filling up the survey, please continue

14:50to promote that. Um, there are some

14:52links um and a couple public meetings we

14:55have coming up on October 8th. So, just

14:58next week, is the East Lane uh East Lane

15:02Street public meeting that's in the

15:03Oakwood neighborhood. That's a project,

15:06a capital improvements project that's

15:08nearing the end of u uh design. Uh and

15:12public meeting will review the the

15:15alignment of of that project which is

15:17aimed at um

15:20uh structural um integrity improvement.

15:23You might recall that was the location

15:25that there was a private storm sewer

15:28under a house that failed and um caused

15:31a large sinkhole and the house had to be

15:33demolished. So the city project um will

15:37replace that private system which was in

15:39backyards with a public system that

15:41follows the street rights of way to um

15:44to relocate storm water through through

15:46the streets primarily. Yes sir.

15:48question. I think it was last week city

15:50of Rings out there at the intersection

15:51of L and Oakwood

15:54uh would have been the north west

15:57quadrant and they they dug up there used

16:00to be it was like constant flooding and

16:02the neighbor said there's just a spring

16:04that feeds that corner and I think they

16:07addressed that. Do you know what they do

16:08you have any idea what they were doing?

16:10>> Not familiar with that intersection. I

16:12do know that there was a catch basin at

16:14the corner of Lane Street in Bloodworth

16:17>> that was um that was also a floodprone

16:21area that work was done not to

16:24completely correct it but to to make it

16:27easier for to get drainage but this east

16:29lane project will go through that area

16:31and provide more capacity as well. I'm

16:33not familiar with the intersection that

16:35you're mentioning.

16:36>> It might not been storm water. may have

16:37something else there could have been and

16:40I don't know if we are maint

16:46>> um and then there is on October 24th is

16:49street cleanup at Worthdale Park and um

16:52if anyone to go to that we are finishing

16:55up a construction project it's a stream

16:58restoration project at Worthdale Park as

17:00as well so you can get a a glimpse of

17:02the ongoing work that's uh being done at

17:05at Worthdale Park also

17:08We click on the links and sign up

17:10volunteers.

17:11>> Yes. Yes, that would be the easiest way

17:13to do that. Or um yeah, it be I don't

17:17know the time in the area. Do you know

17:19that the time in the street or dor time

17:22that clean up?

17:24>> Well, it's 10 a.m.

17:26>> 10 10 a.m. So, registration would be

17:29preferable, but you could also just come

17:31at 10 a.m. to work on October 24th. I'm

17:35sure somebody will give you a vest and a

17:37and a bag to to help collect some

17:40litter.

17:42And then lastly, a few uh drainage

17:45assistance projects. Wellington um place

17:48cable court Midlands Town Homes moving

17:51to construction here in the very near

17:52future. So excited about seeing more DA

17:56projects moving moving forward.

17:59And that's all that I have, Mr.

18:02Thank you for that. Um I saw we all

18:06maybe got an email about a bio blitz

18:08starting this week today. I think we're

18:11on the storm water list now. Thank you

18:13for that. Um that's across the city park

18:16sites or something. So that's exciting.

18:19Um and notice they were fixing on six

18:22road that a new building

18:25drainage issue pushing out six foot road

18:28and they were fixing that last week. I

18:30appreciate that. You want to talk about

18:32that?

18:33>> Yes. Yes.

18:35Um, all right.

18:37Any questions for Wayne or staff?

18:43>> Uh, let's see. We now have the modified

18:45consent agenda for the Valley Rainwater

18:47Rewards Projects and Justin and Stephen

18:50are here to talk

18:58like we have three projects on the

19:01>> Yes. Agenda here.

19:03>> Yeah. Thanks.

19:06So, I believe you all received the memo

19:08prior. Um so happy to answer any

19:11questions related to the three projects

19:13I'm proposing today um

19:16for the budget that's on top of that.

19:21>> You can just spin them through a little

19:24project after this.

19:25>> Yeah. Just so we can see our

19:28>> Sure. Yeah. Do you mind driving or

19:34crashing?

19:36>> Nothing unusual about any of the three.

19:38>> No, nothing unusual. Um, nothing, you

19:40know, particularly to point out and say

19:42that's that's atypical.

19:45So once again, three projects. Uh, one

19:49is integrated as you can see on top.

19:52Basically means there's two different

19:53project types, Ringard and Sistn. You

19:56can see them kind of delineated here

19:58with their typical or they're not the

20:00typical their drainage areas for each

20:04and then below those metrics are a sum

20:06of the total project.

20:09>> Is that right piped all the way?

20:13>> Yeah, it's a pipe.

20:15>> Yeah, we typically recommend piping just

20:16because swailes are um especially like

20:19river rock swailes or something like

20:21that can get very expensive very quick.

20:23um actually dissuade people from moving.

20:30All right. Uh next one, another rain

20:32garden kind of in the corner uh of their

20:34lot downstream capturing majority of

20:37their roof in this case. Uh same ide sp

20:41mostly roof runoff. Um prior one did

20:44have some pvious treatment as well as

20:48well as mainly impervious. This is the

20:50next two are all impervious treatment

20:57and see a similar design uh for this

20:59property too. A little more w little

21:01more open in this case. Um but you know

21:04roughly speaking that's where the rain

21:06garden has been located and they're

21:07capturing majority of their home and

21:09some driveway.

21:12So good projects overall. Um,

21:16you know, like I said, no no issues as

21:19far as far as uh initial review or

21:21scrutiny went after we we you know,

21:26cross-cheed every every item in their

21:28application.

21:29>> Have you seen more interest by

21:31contractors or more availability from

21:33contractors in these projects or

21:36>> Yeah, better depth of contractor.

21:38>> Yes. So I would say that is actually

21:40very observable recently. Um you know

21:43because normally we'd have some key

21:46players. I'd say about three key players

21:48now I've been getting a lot of calls

21:51from additional ones as well. Um one of

21:54which or both of which are promoting a

21:56lot of their clients. So um so yeah you

22:00know key players and I say key players

22:02just just frequent flyers right? Um,

22:05I've I've probably been seeing five, six

22:07plus additions to our contractor list

22:09recently. Um, so it's been it's been

22:12good in that regard. I think that's only

22:13a helpful thing.

22:16Yeah, adds more competition, gives

22:19diverse kind of approach to things,

22:21challenges us in many ways too, just to

22:23to scrutinize and see what they're

22:25doing, what they're not doing. So, yeah,

22:27very good. Uh and and I would say also

22:30at least this last couple weeks like a

22:32huge uptick in interest as well. So

22:36you've been responding to a lot of

22:38consultations

22:39>> on the residential side or commercial

22:41side or not?

22:42>> Both.

22:42>> Yeah, both. You know, residential I

22:44think I don't know if it's ever going to

22:46change. It's definitely our backbone. Uh

22:48that's the majority of our

22:49consultations. But yeah, for me speaking

22:51for myself, I've had two uh commercial

22:55consultations recently. you know, some

22:57large scale plus one of these guys like,

22:59hey, I own 20 properties. I'm trying to

23:01explore this. So,

23:04we'll see. We'll see see what happens. I

23:06never

23:09>> Yeah.

23:13Do you think the change to the 90% um

23:19citywide is driving any of that

23:21potentially or?

23:22>> Yeah. Oh, yeah. I mean, it's I get a lot

23:25of feedback on the generosity of the

23:28program. So, uh, and people who just

23:31hear about it or they're like, "Hey, my

23:34landscaper told me about this. This

23:37doesn't, you know, it almost seems

23:39unreal. Why aren't more people doing

23:40it?"

23:41>> Um, so, so that is absolute feedback

23:45I've been getting. I think that's I

23:47think that is is huge. Now, you know,

23:49obviously every project is unique. We

23:51have to evaluate it. sometimes have to

23:53say, "Hey, you're not eligible for 90%,

23:55you're eligible for 73% or whatever."

23:58But, um, but still it's it's good

24:01feedback, you know, pretty much across

24:03the board.

24:18Second

24:21discussion

24:23all in favor of approvement for the

24:25motion. Okay.

24:27>> All right.

24:28>> Yeah. I appreciate it. Thank you guys

24:31for doing this work.

24:33>> Yeah. Yeah.

24:37Um, now we're going to pass

24:42about what we

24:45crested and drainage improvements

24:46project. Just Eric. All right. Just

24:48Eric. All right. Got the better half

24:50today, right? I hope so.

24:53Thank you for being here after doing

24:55this before. So, you better drive run

24:56with a, you know, a lesser crowd. Hope

25:00not.

25:01>> Again, Eric Mayer. I'm a CIP project

25:03manager for Raleigh stormwater and I did

25:06present this to the American Public

25:07Works Association meeting we had last

25:09month at Winston Salem. I'll be offering

25:12the same presentation to the American

25:13Society of Civil Engineers next month in

25:16Raleigh at the McKinnon Center and here

25:18to talk about the Glenma Crested Drain

25:20Improvements Project on the urban

25:22rehabilitation retrospective.

25:27My agenda will consist of five points. A

25:29brief background on the project, the

25:31engineering study and decision for the

25:34alternative was chosen, the design

25:36permitting stages for this project,

25:39construction phase, and then overall

25:41outcomes.

25:45Historically with Raleigh storm water,

25:47with any capital improvement project,

25:49the methods that's been going forward is

25:51to identify a failing stormwater system

25:54and to upgrade it by digging and

25:56replacing it with a larger pipe.

25:59But now as we come to different

26:00neighborhoods, there are different

26:01concerns and different uh opportunities

26:03to rehabilitate situ

26:11being an older historical neighborhood.

26:14So Raleigh storm water going forward is

26:16going to use more CIP as needed for

26:18different projects as development comes

26:20about.

26:23The first task was to assess the the

26:25given area within the five points as

26:26part of the engineering study. So, a

26:29network of about 3,700 linear feet of

26:31private stormware pipe was identified

26:33and studied using close caption TV

26:36techniques and full camera to identify

26:38and grade each of the different uh

26:40conditions for those pipes.

26:42Within that network, about 2550 or

26:45roughly 70% of that pipe was screened

26:48out and set aside for no work or no

26:51attention needed to be done at the time.

26:53Minor defects here or there, no saving

26:55holes. There was no need to re-lotate

26:57that section of piping.

26:591,150 ft remaining 30% of the alignment

27:03was chosen for further upgrades for

27:05rebilt or excavation replacement.

27:08It should be noted for this project that

27:10it was governed by the presence of sink

27:12holes and overall structural integrity

27:14of piping and not the capacity. Flooding

27:17was not a concern and had not been

27:19reported too much among the uh the

27:21neighborhood.

27:23This project was challenging with the

27:25all the private property efforts because

27:27it was so interrolling with public

27:28alleys specifically Woodland and

27:30Crescent Alley. The five points you had

27:33to be mindful of homes driveways and

27:35other structural considerations and an

27:37overall city system implications for

27:39public runoff.

27:43Again the global crest area within here

27:45is uh as shown star the five points area

27:49again four quarters around here and

27:52avenue a major artery that's working its

27:54way over here.

27:56This area is on the order of 80 to 100

27:58years old and is governed by the

28:00backyard trunk line running from this is

28:02about uh Copper Street through Woodland

28:05Avenue up through Crescent Woodland

28:07Alley crossing DT road at Glow Avenue

28:11working its way down to Alexand. So

28:13these pipes are on the order of 30 to 54

28:15in in diameter.

28:18At the time this work was done and the

28:19city studia there were no public ements

28:22anywhere on it. So system and process

28:24need to be put in place to achieve

28:26public easements for this alignment.

28:28Again, this was documented through about

28:30two decades of calls about sinkholes and

28:32GIS application work. The prime

28:36contractor was solutions with a contract

28:38price of $2.8 million.

28:43Now in this agent system, how do we go

28:45about customizing the solution to bring

28:48about improvements for the overall well

28:49crescent system?

28:54The choices between rehabilitation or

28:56replacement are governed by condition

28:58pipe set study structural integrity

29:02identifying if it's flooding or not

29:03flooding where it is in relation to

29:05homes, garages, walls, fences, other

29:08structures,

29:10being able to achieve and identify

29:12easement widths. Again, tracking those

29:14sink poles

29:16within that 1,150 linear feet I had

29:19spoken about that required some work to

29:21be done on it. 800 linear feet was

29:23identified to be rehabilitated with

29:25cured in place pipelining. The remaining

29:27350 linear feet will be dedicated for

29:31new excavation or equation of pipe.

29:34As I discuss this project, it'll become

29:36apparent that the wire itself will still

29:38the pipe. There needs to be a grounding

29:40program or backbone program, some way to

29:42address the same holes that had been

29:44recorded and identified by the

29:45residents.

29:50This section here I'll discuss is again

29:51the uh section that's on the west side

29:53of Glow Avenue. So it doesn't show the

29:56side east side where Alexander is. This

29:58section here Alexander was lining and

30:01joint replacement joint repair but I

30:03wanted to just highlight for you

30:06the solution need to be customized. So

30:07there's a lot of alternation between

30:09yellow lining

30:11and red excavation. So it was very uh

30:13peace build in the way the contractor

30:15had to plan and work to meet the design

30:18requirements.

30:20This section here on Preston Road along

30:22Woodland Avenue who sectioned down did

30:25not require any additional work. So that

30:26was left alone during project.

30:35The preferred method that storm water

30:36will look to going forward is to use

30:38ultraviolet cured uh glass reinforced

30:41polymer as the methodical lining. This

30:44is chosen primarily because of its

30:45environmental qualities. It has

30:47diminished odor and does not affect the

30:50air quality the same way felt or steam

30:52curing does. There's also less chance of

30:54intrusion into surface waters that may

30:57come about by this application.

31:00Now I get to show you some of my toys

31:02I've collected along the way. Part of

31:05the project in order to evaluate this

31:06was a visit to the Santex plant in

31:08Huntersville, North Carolina, which has

31:10a a large market share of providing

31:12these UV cured liners in North Carolina.

31:15So I want to share with you some of

31:16their typical fiberglass strands that

31:18they have.

31:20You're able to kind of see the whole

31:22process of fabrication. So this uh this

31:24particular piece of fiberglass has

31:26aspirations of becoming either a 12 to

31:2872 in liner along the way

31:35when cured becomes a hard structural

31:37member in place. This is about quarter

31:39inch in thickness.

31:45share with you some pictures not only

31:46from the GL Crescent project, some other

31:48recent projects I've worked on that had

31:50lining elements in. This is a project on

31:53Tomington Drive that we completed last

31:55year as part of the system repair

31:56program. You can just see some of the uh

31:58storage containers. This is where the

32:00liner is stored

32:04and it's brought and delivered to the

32:05site.

32:11This is a section of the liner. Once it

32:13becomes once it goes from that

32:14fiberglass single strand, it becomes a

32:16liner. And you get the varying

32:18thicknesses by just making multiple

32:20layers of that fiberglass element along

32:23the way to get the desired design

32:24thickness

32:32within that system repair package I just

32:34mentioned. This was a uh project on Pine

32:36Street that was completed last year. And

32:38this is an example of the UV light

32:40train. And this is a element that once

32:42the contractor has installed the liner,

32:44he runs this train through. It's got a

32:46series of lights that emit ultraviolet

32:50with the uh hours of the resin and lots

32:52of curing process. So generally the

32:55contractor will run this about a foot a

32:57minute. So about 60 ft an hour in order

33:01to cure in place.

33:05photo of the dentist [clears throat]

33:08on there. It's very similar product.

33:16[laughter]

33:22>> The public engagement program for this

33:23pro process. This project had multiple

33:25processes along the way. The initial

33:27stage involved traditional public

33:29meetings with large gatherings of

33:31interested neighborhood. Again, we got

33:33this large polygon founded by Kalper, by

33:36Fairview, Glenwood and Alexander

33:39invited these households to discuss the

33:41project and let them know the

33:42alternatives that we had put in place.

33:44As the project continued to develop in

33:46terms of easement reporting and

33:48construction sequencing and other way of

33:51the construction meetings became more

33:53customized and more one-on-one means

33:55were necessary to continue to inform the

33:58residents about what they could expect

33:59to see and what would be asked of them

34:01during the construction process

34:07the engineering study. Now we can get

34:09forward and start putting together

34:10design plans to get this project

34:11permitted and built.

34:15Some of the challenges involved because

34:16it was a unique project to storm water

34:18was navigating how the permitting

34:20process would work or would be involved

34:22in terms of doing engineering analyses

34:24for hydraulics and hydrarology

34:27coordination involved with the DUT as

34:29the Glowwood Avenue section where this

34:31project will bisect as a DOT corridor.

34:34they need to be involved with the

34:35project to make sure that there were no

34:37adverse effects to their existing

34:38infrastructure in Glwood Avenue.

34:41We also had to navigate what the

34:43disturbed areas would be and how much uh

34:45permitting that would involve. So during

34:47that permitting process and discussions,

34:50it was determined that since over an

34:51acre of areas be disturbed for aligning,

34:54we still need to go through with the

34:56DEEQ to obtain the appropriate

34:58permission to keep the project moving

35:00forward.

35:03This is the 42-in corrugated metal pipe

35:06underneath Lwood Avenue. And you can see

35:07it's in in rough shape and has uh severe

35:11rusting where the water would be and

35:12just a very irregular cross-section that

35:15would inhibit storm water flow. So

35:18during the coordination process, this

35:19was discussed with the DOT and

35:22discussions were back and forth as to

35:24whether the city would do it ahead of

35:26the project and further coordinate with

35:27D or the best way to sequence it going

35:30forward. So it had been determined that

35:32the DOT would ahead of the city's

35:34project rehabilitate this pipe prior to

35:37the city breaking ground on their own

35:38preferred

35:43as discussed before there about 30

35:46private properties were involved and

35:47there were no easements hand at the

35:48time. So we had to work with according

35:51with the each individual neighbor to

35:54achieve and record the ement in order to

35:55do the work in a single cohesive system.

35:59This also involves again customizing the

36:01solution to accommodate existing fences,

36:04driveway repairs, access, making sure

36:06the landscaping and tree removal was

36:08accounted for and documented.

36:131909 Glenwood Avenue is the property

36:15that the city had bought. It was the

36:16focus or part of the project. The

36:19homeowner had wanted to sell it due to

36:20some sink holes and just some drainage

36:23repairs that had been long overdue. It's

36:25determined by the city that based on its

36:28location, it'll be serve it well to be

36:30able to customize and determine the

36:32final layout for storm water as well as

36:34to have a staging area to store

36:36equipment during construction.

36:41Twists and turns during construction.

36:46This is a new kind of work. So, it took

36:47a challenge some challenges to advertise

36:51to skate from contractors what be

36:52looking at. So the engineer acorn

36:55determined an estimate of $2.4 million.

36:58We ended up having two bids after two

37:01sets of uh bidding iterations and the

37:03lower bid was $2.8 million to get into

37:05fluial solutions.

37:08Contraers are still learning about the

37:10large scale rehabilitation and what's

37:11involved that market. So now I think at

37:13this point we get a little bit more

37:14momentum and be better suited to have

37:17more competitive pricing in the future

37:19as contractors get more familiar with

37:21what the city's been expecting and what

37:23that work will look like along the way.

37:26We found some challenge along the way

37:28working with the subs that we had a

37:29given general contractor who applied for

37:31and won the bid. They hired a sub who

37:33had experience in lining but not enough

37:36experience sufficient enough for the

37:38curing place pipeline that we had

37:39specified. So we ended up having a

37:42subcontractor to a subcontractor which

37:44we had some challenges along the way

37:46getting the project done but it was a

37:48little challenging and different because

37:50of the out ofstate nature of this

37:52contractor. There had to be some

37:53additional coordination efforts involved

37:55just to make sure that we stayed within

37:57the project schedule.

38:02Working in backyards, we had to be

38:03mindful of different access issues,

38:05where fences and gates were, being

38:07mindful of privacy for each of the

38:09homeowners, and being aware of their

38:11concerns for tree removal and for

38:13driveways.

38:17I'll share a uh a pair of

38:20pictures here. And this was for the

38:22frame that needed to be removed. This is

38:24for a 42inch pine tree along the

38:26alignment that was needed to be removed

38:28in order to facilate access along

38:30Woodland Alley. So it was a challenge

38:32getting such a large piece of women into

38:34a narrow narrow space as will ali.

38:44This is the driveway along the project

38:46alignment. They have reported just voids

38:48and sink holes underneath their

38:50driveway. The driveway in this case here

38:52was not paved but there was a ground

38:54stabilization program put in place. That

38:57graph was installed by injecting through

38:59pilot holes before that moment.

39:02[clears throat]

39:22Given the nature of the uh approach area

39:25in terms of this historical nature and

39:26some of the over structures, it was

39:28determined that it would be appropriate

39:30to ask task our materials testing agent

39:32to put together a program of three post

39:35construction inspection assessments as

39:37well as monitoring the various uh site

39:40structures with some crack ages, some

39:42seismic monitoring for sensitive areas

39:44where excavation and replacement was

39:47occurring. So we went through this

39:49program and working with the residents

39:50to gauge their interest in participating

39:52and it gave them a little more comfort

39:54that the city had their best interest at

39:56heart in protecting their homes and

39:58other structures during construction.

40:04Part of that again is the tree removal

40:05and you'll see the picture of the uh

40:07pine tree I'm take I'm sitting around

40:09that was removed. This is a property

40:11here where there were two trees. This is

40:13a 33 inch maple, a 77 inch popppler. So,

40:17we worked with the homeowner and did the

40:20best we could to this popper tree still

40:22in place. The structures that were

40:24rehabilitated were rehabilitated around

40:26to avoid damaging the tree roots.

40:28There's a vertical root zone for each

40:31tree that was dedicated during the

40:32construction.

40:34At the home west, we did remove this

40:37maple tree, so the hammock is no longer

40:39there.

40:42But along the way, as part of the

40:43consultation, we worked in house with

40:45our urban forestry folks just to

40:47identify limiting areas and how we would

40:49be judicious about tree removal and tree

40:51lim

40:55with an aging system like this where a

40:57lot of the construction solutions years

40:59ago were sort of ad hoc. We had to

41:01determine identify the conditions and

41:03see what remediation could be done along

41:05the way. So this is kind of a typical

41:07condition where you have a lot of stone

41:09or brick constructed drain structures in

41:11place again here because a lot of the

41:14corrugated metal piping really

41:16collapsed. So we had to be mindful of

41:18that. In this case here, this was the

41:201909 Gladwood Avenue box that was

41:22particularly challenging for the

41:24contractor. We end up developing a

41:26solution where this structure was kept

41:28because the contractor's fear about it

41:31collapsing during demolition. So we're

41:32able to redesign to accommodate uh

41:35additional lining, creating a new

41:37manhole to facilitate additional

41:39excavation and replacement.

41:41[clears throat]

41:42At one of the residents, we found there

41:44was a concern about rats that have been

41:46invest infesting there at their home. So

41:48we had to determine if the structure the

41:50drain structure could be changed or

41:52modified to discourage rats from

41:55constant in and out. So that in that

41:57case that modification was switched from

41:59an open throat catch basin to a standard

42:01uh draining but

42:04every once in a great while you may also

42:05see some sewer laterals some conflicts

42:07that you're unaware of. So likewise

42:09we're able to work with the homeowner to

42:11modify our design to avoid damaging

42:14their sewer lateral.

42:18During the course of construction, we

42:19found that there was a case where we had

42:22a 42inch corrugated metal pipe and

42:24during construction, we found that there

42:26were some wrinkles that formed. And

42:28these wrinkles are as a result of just

42:30the corrugated metal pipe crushing like

42:31a soda can. So your cross-section of

42:33your pipe is irregular. It doesn't quite

42:35match a nominal diameter that was

42:38anticipated. And as you can see with the

42:40sand that are around, this condition

42:42right here is is hard. There's no it's

42:44already cured in the place. that water

42:46is just going to sit and it may cool but

42:48it may be may have a hard time getting

42:51around there will not flow as per the

42:53design. So when it was identified the

42:56project team came together and

42:57determined the best course of action was

42:59to grind out those wrinkles and realign

43:02the pipe in order to meet the proper uh

43:05design section.

43:09I'll share with you a uh a recent

43:10project we just finished at Cranon Lane

43:12where the contractor did uh didn't line

43:15up properly and although there's a

43:16wrinkle here because of where the

43:17wrinkle is located uh the wrinkle itself

43:20in this case could not be uh over

43:23couldn't have been avoided because of

43:25the bend in the pipe. So because the

43:27wrinkle was right above the spring line,

43:29it did not inhibit maintenance or flow

43:31was deemed acceptable by that project

43:32team and left in place.

43:40Along the way, we also found that some

43:41of the other liners, the 54in liners

43:43that were planned for Alexander Road had

43:46been uh improperly stored by the

43:47contractor and started curing in place

43:49before they were installed. So we had to

43:51work with the contractor and then they

43:53reorder the liners at their cost and

43:55install them correctly

43:57as the project progress.

44:00When the engineer and the owner work

44:02together, we look for just again close

44:03caption TV review, make sure the line

44:05segments are correct and accounted for

44:07and the line looks good and formed

44:10properly.

44:11identifying any service laterals or any

44:13other uh pipes that flow in there as

44:16well as deting a sampling and testing

44:18program to look at the structural

44:20qualities of the liner making sure it

44:22meets ADM requirements and has the

44:24appropriate thickness based upon the

44:26expected loading involved.

44:32>> I mentioned before earlier about how in

44:34addition to having the aligning

44:35programs, it's appropriate to have a

44:36routing program that helps fill the

44:38voids.

44:39the project I sent before with that

44:41driveway. I'll share I'll share with you

44:44my props. This was the uh this was the

44:46grout was injected in place and this is

44:48a a poly

44:50hydrophilic grout. So only small amount

44:53of grout was injected but just because

44:55of the nature of the water in the soil

44:56it's able to expand significantly fill

44:58in any voids that may come about. So

45:01share that with I call the phone.

45:07Here's a photo of the 1909 Glad Avenue

45:10uh the site that was demolished prior to

45:12construction. And so the sink holes that

45:14were observed there were filled in place

45:16with that same yellow phone.

45:26One of the challenges we have the

45:27contractor was being able to determine

45:29in the bid form a grout. So in the bid

45:33form there was clearly stated that that

45:34grout that you see right there was to be

45:36recorded and docu documented as a liquid

45:38because it's a liquid that's injected in

45:40place and only after it's exposed to

45:41water does it fill up that volume. In

45:44that case, the uh the contractor had to

45:47start billing for the project based upon

45:49that uh that quantity right there, that

45:51volume. We had to have go back to

45:53Webster's dictionary and show that this

45:56is in gallons because gallons is a

45:57liquid measurement and not not that it's

46:00like you can't really quantify what that

46:01would look like. And by doing that we're

46:04able to have some cost control of the

46:06project because that would slow up to

46:08factor 10 15 16 times what the actual

46:10bid might be and be a real costly

46:13problem

46:16satisfaction team. So we were able to

46:18avoid a lot of challenges. We stopped

46:20working by being collaborative with

46:22design team.

46:27>> As we went along the way, we developed a

46:29close out and property restoration

46:31matrix for each property just based upon

46:33landscaping issues, how the structures

46:35were doing and being able just to take

46:37care of walk through the contractor to

46:39identify for punchless purposes what

46:41work was still remaining as the project

46:43continued on.

46:45That's that 77 inch poll I mentioned to

46:47you that was off Avenue just got hit by

46:50lightning in the last few months and

46:52kind of left a nasty scar right along

46:54here. So we're in touch with the

46:56homeowner who was blocking that just to

46:58see if there are any long-term effects

46:59if the popler is going to survive and so

47:02far so good. will be a

47:05night

47:20out.

47:24We finished construction in August of

47:262026. So, contractors left the site at

47:29this time. Now, right now, we're working

47:30through our remaining permanent

47:31compliance. including uh urban forestry.

47:35So now with a storm water conveyance

47:37involved, we're just collecting asphalt

47:38survey data identifying where the new

47:41structures are and close caption TV

47:43inspections

47:45inspections together to the city site

47:46permanent review for the final steps.

47:51Our program outcomes are that trenches

47:53rehab. Having this customized lining

47:55solution will be a workable option going

47:58forward which will help more projects in

48:00more timely more cost effective manner.

48:04The polyurethane grabbing that talking

48:07about with its the foam and its exposure

48:10to water will be another option help

48:12supplement this drive program in

48:14addition to aligning work going forward.

48:17We hope by continue to develop the

48:18relationships with contractors to make

48:20more of a market that more uh good

48:22competition going forward and we get

48:24better bid prices in the future.

48:28Having individualized resident

48:30communication especially during

48:31easements and construction help the city

48:33by developing those good relationships

48:35and helping to keep the communication

48:37going be responsive to the citizens

48:39needs.

48:41It's good for us to be proactive and

48:42identify new technology and be able to

48:44embrace it and work into our toolkit

48:47going forward.

48:49Having regular field meetings bi-weekly

48:51with the design team and the contractor

48:52helped just as a touch point and being

48:54able to respond to issues and pivot

48:56quickly.

48:58The generous owners contingency also

49:00helped with being able to avoid any

49:02costly delays or change orders that may

49:04be problematic with the project and also

49:07keeping the design firm well involved

49:09during construction. For this particular

49:11case, since we're still working and

49:13learning about the curricul pipelining,

49:15we also use the design firm as self

49:17consultant to help with field

49:19construction administration efforts.

49:24Before I uh turn over for questions, I

49:26did want to share sort of before and

49:27after the crime project I mentioned that

49:29I just finished this past month. This is

49:32a before picture and it consists of

49:34three 36-in reinforced concrete pipes

49:36that are emptying into an outfall into a

49:38wetland. You'll see by this first one

49:40that these pots are 50 years old.

49:43They're showing their age. Their wire

49:45fabric is starting to be exposed for

49:47reinforcement. There's moss growing. The

49:48edges are chipped.

49:53And now after uh lining in a fresh

49:56coating using a a spray spray drainage

50:00coating solution, now it's sealed up

50:02there. The edges are kind of are

50:04protected from prer decay. And u this

50:07product turned out well. which was

50:08another asset to our drainage systems

50:10program.

50:14So this is a project we're excited

50:16about. It's got good improvements and

50:17ramifications for our capital

50:19improvements, our system repair, our

50:21drainage systems programs.

50:24Take any questions you might have.

50:27>> Did you rewrite your polyureth?

50:33>> We may do like underlying molding. maybe

50:35limit some noise or [clears throat] and

50:37it was in there and the contractor

50:38understood that. But it's always good

50:41construction side to repeat ourselves to

50:44analyze if need be just to make sure

50:46that everybody understands.

50:48>> Yeah, we'll get to

50:51us

50:55right

51:00in their eyes. They just stay

51:05Yes sir.

51:06>> You may have mentioned if uh what is the

51:08life expectancy of this material?

51:11>> The line is a 50-year

51:13>> design extension for existing piping.

51:16>> Okay.

51:17>> And I would say I would expect

51:22that CMT which lasted 100 years which

51:26that's well beyond what that would be

51:28expected to lo.

51:30>> Yeah. I should reiterate that most of

51:32those pipes that we spoke about that

51:33needed that line or corrugated metal

51:35couple were polyropylene but again that

51:37culprit is a rustling out of the metal

51:39pipes at the spring line.

51:42>> I guess I have another question. Um

51:45is this is the application best when the

51:48pipe is is on the larger side that I am

51:51because several years ago I was over

51:53Chapel Hill and they were doing a pipe

51:54bursting thing and I never seen happy.

51:57>> [clears throat]

51:57>> this be a better option than pipe

51:59bursting

52:01situations?

52:03>> It may depend on the technique and the

52:05engineer's preference what the city

52:06would be uh equal to. Again, I think I

52:09mentioned the general for liner size be

52:11about 12 to 72 in

52:13small diameter.

52:15>> I wouldn't pay to do that. I'm sure be a

52:17certain length that'll be agonomical to

52:20shops.

52:22>> I know you presented at the conference.

52:24Are there other cities and towns in

52:25North Carolina that are interested in

52:27this or have tried it already?

52:29>> Durham and Charlotte have ling programs

52:31as well. They also have inspectors who

52:33are getting more familiar with the

52:34NASCAR requirements.

52:36This also applications with sanitary

52:38sewer and with drinking water. So level

52:40of water utilities in general will be

52:43using this across the nation.

52:47two-part question um less technical but

52:50just as you have conversations with land

52:52owners who are impacted by construction

52:56what are the what is the typical kind of

52:58response that you get in those

53:01conversations

53:03um and then geez my tiredness is showing

53:06I forgot the second question

53:08[clears throat]

53:09answer that and then circle back to the

53:11city

53:13>> I came to city about three years ago so

53:14a lot of this effort I spoke about

53:16within signing and the the initial

53:18public engagement was before my time. A

53:20lot of it was working with the

53:21homeowners to tell what they can expect

53:23in terms of just trees were a big driver

53:26of it, their landscaping, being able to

53:28preserve what they could expect in terms

53:30of what it look like after the fact that

53:31back in terms of uh restoration.

53:35They've been very concerned about having

53:36the old streets back there, but that

53:38alley was very impassible. was very slow

53:41going wet and dark and all that darkness

53:43was great in the summer and of course

53:44the shading but since that time now the

53:47area's dried out a lot it's open and

53:49it's a little bit more eventually grow

53:50in there and be an asset going over.

53:54>> Thank you. And I remember the second

53:56part um you mentioned that the city

53:58bought a lot in order to accommodate I

54:00guess there there's a structural issue

54:02then meant to accommodate staging area.

54:04Um is that common with projects like

54:07this? And then what happens to the lot

54:08after the project's finished?

54:10>> So we're the warranty stage after this

54:12project for 199 Avenue. So the

54:15contractor handed off to us. just doing

54:17strong maintenance in terms of mowing

54:18the grass and keeping an eye on it, but

54:20the weather to offer it publicly for

54:23sale in the future.

54:26It does have a a pipe that's bicting

54:28itself

54:30with a long-term stat.

54:33We do consider that fairly regularly.

54:36Um, you might recall, and I don't know,

54:37Matt, if we can, go back to that plan

54:39view that had the the 1909 house on it.

54:43Um, if we were going to keep the pipe in

54:46its previous location, it was a very

54:50tight easement between two houses. We

54:52would have had to, in order to excavate

54:54a new pipe through there, put a lot of

54:57shoring to protect the foundations of

55:00both of those houses, which would have

55:02been very expensive, maybe approaching

55:04the cost of the house itself, and then

55:06you've got a very tight corridor to try

55:08to maintain that and get access. So, um,

55:12that was one consideration. Um, the

55:15pipe, the owner of this house had

55:17recently purchased, but she was

55:19completely unaware of a private

55:21stormwater pipe right next to her house,

55:24which when family was actually having

55:26some foundation impacts to her to her

55:28house. So, she was unable to get

55:30contractors to even go in there and help

55:33her shore up her house foundation. So,

55:35she was a very willing seller. said

55:38these [clears throat] types of um buys

55:40are always voluntary when we're when

55:43we're going in and talking to

55:44homeowners. And then the last the last

55:47point mentioned that we could relocate

55:49that the new pipe through through where

55:51the house used to be, put an easement on

55:53there. Um in addition to the impacts

55:56during construction that allowed us to

55:58stage and have better access, we'll have

56:01longer term access for maintaining that

56:03whole corridor which is all now

56:06public easement. So we'll we'll take

56:08over mitigating that from uh from this

56:11point forward. So there are a lot of

56:12advantages. Um we don't make those

56:15decisions lightly and it's all all

56:17voluntary but there are a lot of reasons

56:18that that really helped facilitate this

56:21project and we did that we were able to

56:22do that very early. So the design

56:24engineer

56:26designed the project knowing that that

56:29decision had been made. you could

56:31realign the pipe and make the design

56:33decisions knowing that that is

56:40um for the bidding like contractors

56:45there's a pretty big disparity between

56:47those two between those two and you

56:49still see the case of like for future

56:51ones like that's not becoming the case

56:54anymore where people understanding what

56:56it's going to be so there's not that

56:59disparity anymore

57:01who did that bit were general

57:02contractors who more in the excavation

57:06>> ling some of a niche field so ling

57:09contractors don't generally take on the

57:10general contractor role in the case of

57:12the smaller products I showed you since

57:14those were smaller smaller dollar

57:16they're a little more to that but the

57:18nature is kind of required overall the

57:20GC to oversee all the site issues that

57:22go with that so

57:25there'll need to be some relationship

57:26building on their side in order to get

57:27to line

57:29area,

57:30>> right? So, we hope to have now we have

57:31data actually to look at

57:37bring that bid in to more like a actual

57:39cost.

57:40>> Was there was there any that bid that

57:43was chosen? Did that cost change at all

57:46dramatically the porcelain project? Were

57:48there changing orders or anything beyond

57:50that% conditions or were they relatively

57:53on budget

57:54>> due the contingencies that we had in

57:56place 50% contingency in the project

57:59where would be on budget?

58:02>> That answers my question. Did you have

58:04to spend more than the 2.8 if you

58:06thought you were going to? So that that

58:08built in is great. Um, and then is there

58:11I guess is there another lining system

58:13[snorts] that doesn't UV? Is there an

58:17older technique or something like that?

58:19And so this UV thing is very unique. Is

58:22that [laughter]

58:25well you mentioned that because I spoke

58:27before again this the plan was to align

58:30to do a new line here from this existing

58:32box all the way to this box. There was a

58:35picture I showed you of some of the

58:38brick channel that brick chamber that

58:40was very kind of there was no water in

58:41there. It was ancient falling apart.

58:43Since the contractor was afraid to

58:45actually go in there and do direct

58:47connection, but they did a point of

58:48entry here by digging that structure may

58:51have had some possibility of failure. So

58:54the decision was made by

58:57the pipe that was here lining this

58:58section and then connecting from here to

59:01here. So the pipe actually moves from

59:03here to here.

59:05Because of the the short pipe distance

59:08and because of the need to be expedition

59:09about it in this particular case, we did

59:12authorize the contract produce belt

59:14length about 20 ft or so. That was a

59:16little different technique compared to

59:18the cure in place, but it was a little

59:20more able schedule was a little easier

59:23to fabricate.

59:29So the curative place linings idea has

59:33been around for

59:35became more popular in the late 80s and

59:3890s and had been applied a lot for

59:41wastewater um pipes and the earlier

59:44technologies. The first one was um hot

59:46water. So they could impregnate the the

59:49liners that you felt with air with a

59:52with an epoxy. There was a heat

59:54activating curing system. So they would

59:56put hot water in there, heat it up. That

59:59would that would cure the wire until it

1:00:01was hard. But then you'd have a pipe

1:00:04full of hot water that had these curing

1:00:07byproducts like styrene, which have

1:00:10toxicity

1:00:12um to to them. um in a in a wastewater

1:00:15pipe that's not really a problem. You

1:00:17can release it and becomes diluted and

1:00:19goes down in the wastewater plant and

1:00:21it's a micro amount of water compared to

1:00:24what the the system flows. In a storm

1:00:27water system though, you don't want to

1:00:29have that amount of water as biological

1:00:31toxicity. You know, you can't release it

1:00:34to the stream. Um you either have to

1:00:36pull it suck it up into a a vacuum truck

1:00:39or something like that. There are even

1:00:41newer methods that have steam, but

1:00:43you're still um creating that styrene

1:00:46that can that can off gas and and have

1:00:49odors. And again, that has some toxicity

1:00:51to it as as well. So, the UV cure has

1:00:54lots of advantages. You don't have that

1:00:56steam off or or the water that you have

1:00:58to try to get rid of. Um it is

1:01:01relatively new but there are multiple

1:01:03manufacturers now so there's plenty of

1:01:05competition um with but we have gone

1:01:08exclusively to ultraviolet light cured

1:01:12cured in place liner now just just for

1:01:14those reasons there it used to be more

1:01:16expensive it's not really important

1:01:18because of the number of manufacturers

1:01:20that have adopted this we we still get

1:01:23good bid

1:01:24>> it should be that that DOT crossing I

1:01:26mentioned that we start that the DOT did

1:01:28prior to our

1:01:30That was right over here. This was Steve

1:01:32Jer.

1:01:34No, I thought that was really

1:01:40did that one.

1:01:40>> Yes,

1:01:44>> no, no, no. I'm sorry. And I want to go

1:01:46back to Commissioner McMillan's question

1:01:48about pipe. So the cured in place lining

1:01:51system, as you can see, it it does

1:01:53decrease the diameter of the of the pipe

1:01:56just a little bit, but because it's

1:01:57smoother, the actual capacity stays

1:02:00about the same really. And as Eric said,

1:02:03capacity wasn't an issue in this in this

1:02:05project. It was really a structural

1:02:07integrity issue. But pipe bursting um it

1:02:11actually brings you can pull a coupling

1:02:13through there with a a new pipe behind

1:02:16it and you can actually expand and and

1:02:19insert a larger pipe that it literally

1:02:22breaks it pushes it out into the soil.

1:02:25You pull a larger size pipe maybe a pipe

1:02:28size sometimes two pipe size depending

1:02:30on soil and depth and all of that. So

1:02:32pipe bursting is actually we have not

1:02:35used that here in storm water. Rolling

1:02:37waterers use that for wastewater

1:02:39projects. But that is another technique

1:02:40where you actually if you do need more

1:02:43capacity and you want a trenchless

1:02:46technique because digging is expensive

1:02:48or there's a surface impacts or so forth

1:02:51that you're trying to minimize. That is

1:02:53another good technique that we'll keep

1:02:56in mind having storm water but could be

1:02:58applicable.

1:02:59>> Yeah. So I have a question just because

1:03:00we get these questions in the work I'm

1:03:02doing right now. But um I assume when

1:03:05you bought the house from the 1909 give

1:03:09market value, right?

1:03:12>> If you sell it

1:03:14in at least the stuff we're working on

1:03:16now, you can't make a profit. You can

1:03:18sell it back and you can go in with

1:03:20market value. So maybe it went up in

1:03:22value in a couple of years or something.

1:03:24But are there there some?

1:03:27>> Well, in this case, the house is gone.

1:03:29Yeah. An easements through there. So, it

1:03:31can never be redeveloped. Um, what we're

1:03:34considering is so we're considering

1:03:37selling it to an adjacent property owner

1:03:40if they just wanted to have more

1:03:41property. They

1:03:42>> Okay.

1:03:42>> Very restricted what they could ever do

1:03:44on this property in the in the future

1:03:46because of the easement that would be

1:03:49through there. But, you know, they could

1:03:51um, you know, have a bigger lawn and

1:03:53play broke. You know, there's a lot of

1:03:55things, especially in that area, having

1:03:57a larger lot would quite some property

1:04:00value increase to an addition. You

1:04:02>> have the same case for the one on East

1:04:03Lane.

1:04:05>> Um, that would that one um, we bought

1:04:08did not buy the house. We bought an

1:04:10extended easement

1:04:12>> for the entire property, but because we

1:04:15were relocating, we're going to be

1:04:17relocating the new s storm sewer outside

1:04:21of that property. There will not be a

1:04:23storm sewer through that property in the

1:04:25future.

1:04:26>> So, we're able to use it for um

1:04:28construction staging similarly, but we

1:04:31we wanted the property owner to keep

1:04:33that walk for the future because that

1:04:36one can be redeveloped.

1:04:37>> Okay? because it will not have a storm.

1:04:39So they still fight through it. They

1:04:41still

1:04:43very little different situ.

1:04:44>> Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely.

1:04:49>> Challenging projects in sure was. Thank

1:04:53you very much. Thank you.

1:05:03Walk us through

1:05:06fiscal year

1:05:10annual report

1:05:1326

1:05:14fiscal year 26.

1:05:17Thank you again Ariel for everything you

1:05:20have done to help.

1:05:22>> Yes.

1:05:23>> Good afternoon commission. We're back

1:05:24with your thanks to Ariel your draft

1:05:27final FY27 work plan and your draft

1:05:30final FY26 annual just really a

1:05:33highlight all the conditions work as you

1:05:36I'm going to let Ariel kick us off as we

1:05:38look at the report first Matt again and

1:05:42then we get to by

1:05:48any questions.

1:06:00Um, thank you [clears throat] everyone

1:06:01for everybody comments and um your

1:06:03suggestions. I looked through everything

1:06:06that Wayne sent to me um and adopted

1:06:09them in the new uh draft. Um yeah, you

1:06:13can yeah, scroll down if there's

1:06:15anything that you know pops up. Um right

1:06:19now I can certainly go back and um add

1:06:22them in. But from here we would just

1:06:25adopt the annual report and then it'll

1:06:28be presented to the council.

1:06:31>> You're suggesting we did move this right

1:06:36comments.

1:06:39>> Yeah, I think it was Yeah. going through

1:06:41and just making some formatting, then

1:06:43moving that summary up to the front. Um,

1:06:46and then at the end, I also um added the

1:06:49photos for these track members. Um, if

1:06:52you want to take a shot today, you

1:06:54certainly can.

1:07:19Yeah.

1:07:21>> Oh, yeah.

1:07:22>> Yeah. No, I was just going to say feel

1:07:24free to stop scrolling through. There

1:07:26weren't a lot of

1:07:30folks. I think moving moving that

1:07:32summary to the front

1:07:34>> was one of them. Do you remember the the

1:07:36other area? Yeah, it was I think there

1:07:40was just some content that that shifted

1:07:42around uh from some sections

1:07:44>> formatting issues. Yeah. Location

1:07:48issues.

1:07:49>> Yep. Yep. And then I think I may have

1:07:51swapped out some photos that I may have

1:07:53got just some better ones to include in

1:07:56but for the most part um most of it

1:07:58stayed the stay about the same.

1:08:04We go to the last page. Let's see. The

1:08:08last

1:08:11Yes.

1:08:13Yeah, I think Wayne took a group photo

1:08:15the last meeting, so I kind of pulled

1:08:17extracted from that, but you know, I can

1:08:18certainly update any head shots if

1:08:20anyone wants an updated one or, you

1:08:23know,

1:08:24but I think yeah, I think that was all

1:08:27the changes.

1:08:32Thanks.

1:08:37back up to the top.

1:08:40They see it in there.

1:08:43That not

1:08:45just heard about near the top of this

1:08:48area. Keep building all this area.

1:08:58Okay.

1:08:59Drive and DC

1:09:01money, things our CIP. We're going to

1:09:04give us a tour of this project right

1:09:06after this. This is a another

1:09:08neighborhood drainage improvement

1:09:09project. It involves channel

1:09:11improvements as well as piping

1:09:13improvements, cover improvements. So,

1:09:14we'll we'll go see that in just a little

1:09:16bit. So, this must be completed through

1:09:18this year. So, that in your hand

1:09:26work

1:09:29both of these. So all improvements

1:09:32thanks to Eric

1:09:36and um we're a little bit biased but we

1:09:38think this is your best work yet.

1:09:41You know it keeps getting better every

1:09:43year since your draft 27

1:09:46um your comments on the annual report.

1:09:49We took your comments on this one as

1:09:51well. So again right up front we've got

1:09:54your charge from city council items.

1:09:56These are actually per ordinance

1:09:57verbatim right here.

1:10:00Uh there's your connection to the city

1:10:02strategic plan right up there. And we

1:10:04didn't look up

1:10:06the city strategic plan and um there are

1:10:10no identifier references to the verb. So

1:10:13we just enter his text as it is here. So

1:10:17ordinance strategic plan. There's the

1:10:20photograph from last time with the

1:10:22commission. uh your mission statement,

1:10:25your vision statement,

1:10:28some updated photographs as well as you

1:10:30go through here thanks to Ariel.

1:10:34You'll see those

1:10:36smacks involved with engagement and

1:10:39outrage

1:10:41updated

1:10:46your guiding themes. This forward these

1:10:49are your identifiers for the guiding

1:10:50themes here just for your work plan

1:10:52items as we go through the through the

1:10:54agenda.

1:10:56And then I think you get into one thing

1:10:58with add really like this year's

1:11:01acknowledgement of the items and we

1:11:02cover all in the first 25% or so of each

1:11:05meeting are these items public comments.

1:11:08So important the plan commission smack

1:11:10the comments right here staff updates

1:11:15emerging matters which is engagement

1:11:18reviewing the budget

1:11:20and the rainwater awards projects and

1:11:23other projects as well as the capture

1:11:25and as of just last year the silver

1:11:28smart so that's part of our agenda so

1:11:30that's roughly 25% of your work is is

1:11:32those labs and then the rest of your

1:11:34priority shows up here is high priority

1:11:37items all the high.

1:11:42We put in the note that the identifiers

1:11:44here are just that just for identifiers.

1:11:46They're not meant to reflect order of

1:11:49high priority. They're all important

1:11:51identifiers. Here's your connections

1:11:53with the guiding above. So all this

1:11:57should be well connected.

1:12:01Got 10 items in there. the opportunity

1:12:07and likely multiple presentations on

1:12:09some of those throughout the years as

1:12:12well. And this is your just more

1:12:14comprehensive items. You can always pull

1:12:17those as we go throughout the year. your

1:12:18your comments, your thoughts on it and

1:12:21coming together as as you had hoped for

1:12:24really help us be

1:12:27old guided by the commission with our

1:12:29staff to help

1:12:40both of these as approved

1:12:46you

1:12:49not too far out.

1:12:53So very thank you again for great work

1:12:57and he's a really public this is I think

1:13:00closing state public engagement

1:13:03and some really high value

1:13:14we're interested in feel like it's

1:13:16comprehensive

1:13:20>> as always you may test

1:13:27There's always a team member condition

1:13:35when we presented Wayne and I presented

1:13:37it's 5 10 minutes. It's not much of a

1:13:40recap but I don't I don't remember it

1:13:43being very extensive. kind of hit the

1:13:45highlights because these are these

1:13:46documents are given to city council

1:13:50comment before extending.

1:13:53>> That's right. So the city council

1:13:55through your action officially agree

1:13:56with your annual

1:13:58work

1:14:07to

1:14:08>> Yes. If you do make a motion to adopt,

1:14:10then we will officially that would

1:14:13officially send at the city council for

1:14:15reviewing

1:14:18for the November 4th city council

1:14:20meeting.

1:14:37Second discussion

1:14:40favor of that motion.

1:14:43Thank you, Scott. Thank you. Appreciate

1:14:45it.

1:14:48Um, let's see. We are wrapping up in

1:14:52record time. I'll just wait because we

1:14:54got some late breaking news for you that

1:14:56we've got.

1:14:57>> Yes, that's my fault for this. Um I will

1:15:02go through some well let us do the late

1:15:04breaking news because we um

1:15:07then we'll talk about that topics kind

1:15:09of ties to that. So be talking about

1:15:11topics for November this summer.

1:15:14>> Wayne, take it away.

1:15:15>> Yes. So, at the um September 15th city

1:15:19council meeting, council member Jones uh

1:15:22brought up an item during her individual

1:15:25inspection

1:15:26um requesting that the Stormwater

1:15:29Management Advisory Commission um review

1:15:32stormwater regulations

1:15:35and um through facilitation with staff,

1:15:39bring back ideas for um any potential

1:15:43review of specific regulations that um

1:15:47the commission would like to um take

1:15:49forward for potential further evaluation

1:15:52by city council. So um I I wasn't able

1:15:56to go back and get the video of the

1:15:57council. I actually missed that meeting

1:15:59because I was in Mrs. S the APWA um

1:16:01conference. Um but I will review that.

1:16:04But my understanding of request is that

1:16:07um they would like the ideas of some

1:16:09more specifics of what which regulations

1:16:12um there may be some interest in in um

1:16:14looking at more closely and then um and

1:16:18then they will help guide the process

1:16:20that we would want to use to review

1:16:24those whether that will be a stakeholder

1:16:26process or something more specific. And

1:16:29and it may depend on the depth of the

1:16:31regular regulation evaluation and the

1:16:34number of um regulations that you all

1:16:37would like to um to consider for for

1:16:40changes. So what we would like to

1:16:42propose at the staff level is we'll look

1:16:44at a future agenda item maybe November

1:16:47December to get the discussion going um

1:16:50to facilitate if there are any specific

1:16:53regulations that you'd like to look at.

1:16:55Are those erosion sediment control? Are

1:16:57they are they flood plan? Are they water

1:17:00by waterershed regulations? Are they

1:17:02storm water the size of storm water

1:17:04detention? The numbers the types of

1:17:07storm you know if there's anything

1:17:09specific that may have come up in um

1:17:12resoning cases for example I know that

1:17:14kind of stirred some of the discussion

1:17:16of well if there's

1:17:19water conditions that are being

1:17:20requested does that mean perhaps our

1:17:23regulations might need revisiting in

1:17:25some of those same areas? so that we're

1:17:27getting more than just resoning cases

1:17:29because resoning cases are only a very

1:17:31small percentage of the overall

1:17:33development that's occurring in the

1:17:35city. So if there's concerns about

1:17:36regulation um so be thinking about that.

1:17:40We'll certainly bring back and and we

1:17:41can even bring back some some ideas and

1:17:44talk a little just to facilitate the the

1:17:47discussion for you. But we'll bring that

1:17:49back at a at a future meeting that that

1:17:52we can then provide council some

1:17:54additional feedback from that work. I

1:17:57would say if staff can um

1:18:01it's a little bit maybe but just go back

1:18:04to find some of the discussions over the

1:18:06last year cases because I think you hit

1:18:08on the key points sensitive lands

1:18:12for flood planes set control concerns

1:18:16possibly the different storm event that

1:18:18we're being you know tracked for or you

1:18:22know

1:18:26um things like It sounds like we started

1:18:28but just you could see some of those

1:18:29things and then eliminate the bats that

1:18:33we were talking about. Maybe there were

1:18:34other things that you had to talk about.

1:18:36I appreciate councelor Jennis bringing

1:18:38this appreciate that she's been an

1:18:40advocate for attending these meetings. I

1:18:42don't know if she's here today but um

1:18:45but um appreciate her bringing it back

1:18:48to us as an opportunity to discuss. And

1:18:51as Wayne noted, we'll see whether it

1:18:54stays with us or it goes to kind of more

1:18:56technical staff thing. We make

1:18:58suggestions, they come up with

1:18:59suggestions, we review the suggestions

1:19:01or we dive off into a subcommittee. I

1:19:04don't know how much

1:19:08these are things that we've talked about

1:19:09that matter and I think development in

1:19:11Raleigh is a really good thing that's

1:19:13happening.

1:19:14We have to figure out what we'll take

1:19:16out.

1:19:20And just to tack on, I think if people

1:19:22are willing to do a little bit of like

1:19:25homework before the next meeting and

1:19:27we're talking about it, I think it might

1:19:28be useful to us for us to review the um

1:19:32kind of video or not the um conditions

1:19:36that the storm water staff put together

1:19:39as like these would be, you know,

1:19:40potential options that developers would

1:19:43choose that would be above and beyond

1:19:44storm water. That document I think is

1:19:46really helpful. Um and then maybe just

1:19:48some of our cases that we've talked

1:19:50about in the past where we've gotten the

1:19:51conditions out of now and what those

1:19:53conditions look like so that we can

1:19:55probably start with that

1:20:00>> and and it has been good and somewhat

1:20:02intentionally that uh Bennett has

1:20:05appreciated the last year that they've

1:20:06come in and kind of given us a download

1:20:08of the

1:20:09uh direct construction regulations the

1:20:12coast development structure challenges

1:20:14the you know large water wersheds

1:20:18So um but there might be some spots

1:20:19where each of us want to dive into

1:20:21regulations and if we have special as

1:20:24well

1:20:28see where that goes. I appreciate the

1:20:29opportunity or council has offered to us

1:20:32to dig into that.

1:20:37And with that, the other items um

1:20:42we looking at obviously more rain

1:20:45rainwater rewards programs which is

1:20:46great or projects which are great.

1:20:49There's that interest that Steve noted

1:20:51the increased interest. Um we're going

1:20:53to talk about industrial stormwater

1:20:55discharges uh to systems. I believe

1:20:58that's a permit issue that we have to

1:21:01discuss right related to our MS portal

1:21:03permit and there have been some changes

1:21:04to that in our new permit which went

1:21:07into effect July 1. we talk about

1:21:10alarming more education for us. Correct.

1:21:16>> Um begin review like say the council

1:21:19request the storm water development sto

1:21:21development requirements and then it

1:21:22looks like we're going to try to do a

1:21:24field tour park

1:21:30trying to line up a few field visits at

1:21:32the end of meetings like we're doing

1:21:33today. So, visits are optional, but a

1:21:36great opportunity to see things

1:21:38happening.

1:21:41And if you have other business, email me

1:21:43and Scott and Wayne, you can copy

1:21:46Nicola. She's going to be out there for

1:21:48her said till early December, I think is

1:21:51what her office said. But, um, you know,

1:21:54Samantha as well, she just kind of, you

1:21:57know, Samantha Nichol and I meet with

1:21:59Wayne and Scott to pick up the agenda.

1:22:03You see something?

1:22:13>> Leave it as followation

1:22:26capital improvement project. Um think

1:22:29we're 10 minutes early.

1:22:32But somebody has to do their special job

1:22:34before we get out of here.

1:22:40>> Josh

1:22:44that sorry didn't mean to get anybody

1:22:46outbody

1:22:53second.

1:22:56All right. All in favor of

1:23:00Okay.

1:23:02>> [music]

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