2026-10-22 - Conservation Commission

00:07Really? Okay, it's a rule.

00:12Um, all right, we're back back to it.

00:14Center up, we're in Center Office

00:15building.

00:17It's 6:00. We're on the second floor.

00:21This meeting will be held in hybrid

00:23format um

00:25with the option to attend either in

00:27person at the

00:30where we are now or to participants can

00:33um

00:34remain on mute

00:36unless speaking

00:38to ensure clear audio for all attendees.

00:43All right?

00:45Going to

00:48open the session with uh call to order.

00:50Nick?

00:52>> Uh present.

00:53>> Laura?

00:54>> Present.

00:55>> Gil?

00:55>> Present.

00:57>> And Ed?

00:59That's it.

01:00Okay.

01:03Now

01:05just a little

01:07So

01:09because you're an associate member

01:10>> Yep.

01:11>> Okay.

01:12You you can participate to totally

01:16except for with the vote.

01:18And um

01:20you can vote if it's a new subject.

01:23>> Mhm.

01:24>> In other words, if if but if it's one

01:25that's continuing

01:27from other meetings

01:28>> Okay.

01:29>> No.

01:31Laura, you're going to say anything

01:32about you got any comments along that

01:34line, too?

01:36No? All right.

01:38>> I didn't realize that I voted at all.

01:40>> What?

01:40>> I didn't realize I voted at all.

01:42>> Oh, yeah. If if what it ha- you're a

01:45full member on it

01:47>> [clears throat]

01:47>> for us to get to five. In other words,

01:49if

01:50>> Oh, okay.

01:50>> if something comes in and

01:52you know

01:54So that's the

01:54>> you're unsure, always ask.

01:56>> Okay, sounds good.

01:57>> You agree with what I said?

01:59>> I just you know okay.

02:00>> Yeah, I mean I just for today the first

02:01two absolutely.

02:02>> Yeah, well I mean it's not complete.

02:05>> Okay.

02:05>> Meeting minutes we don't vote on if

02:06you're not

02:07>> that we're already entertaining a second

02:10meeting on.

02:12>> And certificates of compliance, that's a

02:15s- that's separate from when the permit

02:17was actually issued, so that's a new

02:18vote.

02:19>> Okay.

02:19>> matter if you were here or not when the

02:20permit got issued. Certificate of

02:22compliance is its own thing.

02:22>> Okay, good, so.

02:24Any other things you can think of off

02:26the top of your head?

02:27>> No, but I'm sure they'll come to me.

02:29>> Yeah, all right.

02:31All right, we are there are no walk-ins.

02:36We are at 6:00, so we're going to open

02:38request for determination of applic- of

02:40applicability for 98 South Shore Drive.

02:43Owner applicant is Thomas Weldon,

02:46representative is Michael Tib- Tuo.

02:48Um Landscape Evolution, SEC file number

02:51is 26-33.

02:54Proposed project repair existing 3-ft

02:58tall retaining wall.

03:00>> Should we do the the reading that Eric

03:03usually does?

03:04>> Oh, yeah.

03:05Absolutely.

03:07>> No worries.

03:10>> You want to make the new guy read it?

03:11>> Oh.

03:13>> [laughter]

03:14>> I got to like

03:15>> Oh, you want to get the new guy to read

03:16>> Testing my my fluency here.

03:18>> Missed it.

03:19>> [laughter]

03:20>> Opening a statement. In the interest of

03:22saving time, the Stow Ridge Conservation

03:23Commission will hold all public hearings

03:26tonight for work within a wetland, water

03:29body, or resource area and or within the

03:32200-ft buffer zone to a wetland, water

03:34body, or resource area in accordance

03:36with the Massachusetts Wetland

03:38Protection Act

03:40MGL chapter 131 section 40 and

03:43associated regulations and the town of

03:45Stow Ridge Wetland Bylaw and associated

03:47regulation. We will not be reading the

03:49newspaper ad

03:51prior to the [clears throat] open

03:53prior to the opening the first hearing

03:55for each project, the applicant is to

03:57submit proof of notification to abutters

04:00within 200 ft of the subject property

04:02line, and proof of the legal newspaper

04:04advertisement. If these items are not

04:06submitted, the public hearing will not

04:08open. Additionally, prior to the start

04:10of each public hearing, we will announce

04:12the location of the project, the

04:13applicant, and the applicant's

04:14representative. If any of the visitors

04:16have not

04:17legibly signed in yet, please do so.

04:20Also, if any visitors are recording this

04:22meeting, please let us let us know.

04:24Thank

04:26>> Thank you.

04:28Now, this is not new so this is not one

04:31that you can vote on.

04:33>> It is It is one you

04:34>> Yeah.

04:35>> Okay. Don, I thought it was could be his

04:37first affirmative vote,

04:39>> What are you going to say, Mary?

04:40Well, how are you going to vote on this?

04:42>> [laughter]

04:45>> Okay.

04:46Um yeah, Troy should start. Okay.

04:49Mike Tibor from the uh Landscape

04:50Evolution uh regards to the this uh 98

04:54South Shore Drive project.

04:56Um

04:57I think it's it's pretty

04:58straightforward. Uh

05:00there's a there's a retaining wall

05:03uh located here uh just off the back of

05:06the house.

05:07And um it's

05:09it's failing and um we'd like to

05:13basically re- reuse the block that it's

05:14made out of and and rebuild it.

05:17Um

05:18and then there's a set of

05:21set of stairs over here uh rotten

05:23timbers. Um we're proposing to replace

05:27with

05:28stone steps, the Goshen stone,

05:30and as well as as as here.

05:34Um

05:36>> Good night.

05:37>> Yeah, it's like I said, pretty pretty

05:39straightforward so I

05:41entertain any questions.

05:44>> All right.

05:46>> Um

05:48as the applicant stated, the project's

05:49fairly straightforward. I didn't have

05:51any major concerns. We discussed um

05:53potential stockpiling in the lawn space

05:57that's kind of gated in this area,

05:59fenced-in area.

06:00Um my only comment that I would say is I

06:04would You'll have an idea of what's

06:06going to be the

06:07under the behind the retaining wall once

06:09you start removing materials, but it

06:12might be a good idea to have depending

06:14on what you find having a silt fence

06:16kind of in this area here. Um

06:19>> Uh-huh.

06:19>> just in case you end up with a lot

06:22softer material than what you're

06:23anticipating just to prevent anything

06:25from sliding down. Other than that, this

06:27there's not really a lot of heavy

06:29equipment that's going in here. It's

06:31probably going to be a pretty fast

06:33project as long as the weather

06:34cooperates with you. So, I have a couple

06:36conditions that I had recommended. Um

06:39that are all pretty straightforward.

06:40Posting the SCC sign.

06:42Going with the project as it was

06:45um proposed, sticking within the limit

06:47of work, using the erosion controls,

06:50uh

06:51keeping all the equipment outside of the

06:5250, which there's no activity proposed

06:54within the 50, so that's should be

06:56fairly easy.

06:58Keeping the patio surface to be

06:59impervious and just keeping the site

07:02stable to minimize disturbance.

07:04>> Okay.

07:06Yeah.

07:07>> No, I don't have any.

07:09>> Good.

07:11>> Um the only thing I we had agreed to

07:13some plantings

07:14>> Yeah.

07:14>> on site.

07:15>> Yeah, that I think that's that's doable.

07:18>> Yeah, I didn't see I don't see it on the

07:19plan.

07:20>> Okay, yeah, I hadn't redrawn it.

07:23Kind of already already submitted, but

07:25um

07:26I mean on the on the banking I

07:28I think maybe maybe five bushes or some

07:30native shrubs if possibly would would uh

07:34would be enough for that space. I think

07:35they'd

07:36>> Where is that?

07:36>> They filled out, so that would be

07:39right

07:39>> Right along

07:40>> on this hillside. There was basically

07:41nothing there.

07:43Um

07:44so I think that would be

07:46you know, that would be appropriate.

07:48>> Next to the fence.

07:49>> That is.

07:50>> It

07:50uh it was just a

07:52a good

07:53banking there with with nothing but a

07:56little bit of grass.

07:57Um so I

08:00I don't

08:01see a problem with that. I think that

08:03would make sense.

08:04>> All right.

08:07>> I don't [clears throat] know if like

08:07that could be added on the plan.

08:09>> Yeah.

08:11Yeah.

08:15>> Any other comments?

08:17>> Anybody in the audience

08:18have anything to say?

08:22All right, do I have a motion?

08:24>> Okay, so in

08:26regards to the project on 98 South Shore

08:28Drive, SCC file number 26-33,

08:32I make the motion to close the public

08:34hearing.

08:35>> Second.

08:37>> Any discussion? Seeing none, all in

08:38favor.

08:40>> Commissioner Money in favor.

08:41>> Commissioner Gravel in favor. Nick

08:42Gravel in favor.

08:45All right, now

08:46>> In regards to the project at 98 South

08:48Shore Drive, SCC file number 26-33,

08:51I make the motion to issue a negative

08:53determination pursuant to the Wetland

08:55Protection Act and the Storage Wetland

08:57Bylaws with a condition as noted by the

09:00agent.

09:02>> All right, do I have a second?

09:04>> I second.

09:06>> Any discussion?

09:07Seeing none, all in favor.

09:10>> Commissioner Money in favor.

09:11>> Commissioner Gravel in favor. Nick

09:12Gravel in favor.

09:16Okay.

09:16>> You got any more questions?

09:17>> Thank you.

09:18>> Well, that's all set, Mike. Do you want

09:19to pick it up?

09:21>> Yeah.

09:21>> Okay. Reach out to you, Marie.

09:23>> Yeah, next week, whatever. Next week or

09:25something.

09:26Yeah.

09:26>> Yep.

09:27>> Okay, thanks.

09:27>> Thank you.

09:29>> 6:10.

09:30We're always this We're always right on

09:32time.

09:36All right.

09:38Open the public hearing, request for

09:39determination of applicability at 97

09:41South Shore.

09:43Um owner applicant is

09:45is Jane Seats.

09:48Sites, I don't know. I'm sorry.

09:50Um

09:51Mark Levine

09:52from Ground Effects LLC.

09:55File [clears throat] number 26-32,

09:57proposed uh

09:59project installation of a permeable

10:02patio.

10:08>> I'm all set.

10:09>> All right, yeah.

10:09>> Uh Mark Levine from Ground Effects is

10:11the uh representative for Jane Seats,

10:14the applicant. What we're proposing is

10:17this area here to be a a new patio.

10:20Um, 50% of it is underneath the overhang

10:24on the house.

10:26And we are within the 50-ft buffer. We'd

10:28be 35 ft back from Cedar Pond.

10:32And so, this would be permeable granite

10:35border as a step to hold it together.

10:39Uh, and we this area here

10:42we're proposing the same amount of area

10:44down here to be

10:46the mitigation planting.

10:50Uh,

10:50it's it's a pretty simple project as

10:52well. I don't know.

10:57>> Yep, again, it's fairly straightforward

10:59project.

11:00Um

11:00>> You may have to talk a little longer if

11:02we get ahead.

11:04>> No, no, nothing else has a time, so

11:05we're good. Um, recommendation for

11:08obviously the SCC sign within the limit

11:09of work, keeping the patio permeable,

11:12erosion and sediment controls. We had

11:15discussed um there's a couple trees

11:17along What are you doing? There's a

11:19couple trees along the shoreline right

11:21here, and we discussed having a no

11:22disturb buffer there or no mow area um

11:26that we can kind of define more or less

11:27just between the trees and probably

11:313 ft back or so maybe would be I think

11:34my good estimate.

11:35>> Yeah, the clients are fine with that. It

11:37was just a matter of when we're digging

11:39in there by hand

11:40>> Yep.

11:41>> what we can get in the ground for plants

11:43in that area.

11:44>> Okay.

11:45Um

11:47and then obviously you're proposing

11:50several different species uh which is

11:52preferable for the restoration having

11:53some biodiversity and not just planting

11:55all of the same thing. So, that does

11:57kind of relieve for the

12:00structure within the 50 of doing that

12:02one-to-one mitigation.

12:05Plus, some. We'll call it a 1.25

12:08mitigation.

12:11>> All right.

12:11Go again, yeah.

12:13>> I got to say something this time. You

12:15can't go first.

12:20good.

12:23I'm good too.

12:29Motion to anybody in the audience like

12:31to speak to this

12:34motion to close public hearing.

12:37For the project on 97 Shore Road as you

12:40see fine number 26-32.

12:44I make the motion to close the public

12:46hearing.

12:47A second.

12:50Any discussion? See none all in favor.

12:53The children in favor. Nick Gravel in

12:55favor.

12:58For the project on 97 Shore Road as you

13:00see fine number 26-32

13:03make the motion

13:04to provide a waiver for disturbance

13:06within a 25 foot buffer and for

13:09structures within the 50 foot

13:12I second.

13:14Any discussion? See none all in favor.

13:17The children in favor. Nick Gravel in

13:18favor.

13:22And for the project on 97 Shore Road as

13:24you see fine number 26-32

13:28I make the motion to issue a negative

13:30determination

13:31pursuant to the Wetland Protection Act

13:33and storage Wetland by law with the

13:35conditions noted

13:37by the agent and the agenda.

13:40A second.

13:43Any discussion all in favor.

13:46The children in favor. Nick Gravel in

13:48favor.

13:51What's up?

13:52Thank you. Thank you.

13:55I'll pick it up whenever it's ready.

14:00All right. We are now

14:03to

14:09number three.

14:10We're we're continuation of public

14:12hearing for a notice of intent for

14:16Hockomock Pond.

14:17>> Wait.

14:18>> Take this out.

14:19>> Hockomock Pond?

14:20>> Yeah.

14:22Hockomock Pond.

14:24>> Um that requesting a continuation to

14:27November. They're still waiting on some

14:28notification from Natural Heritage.

14:30>> Okay.

14:31>> All in favor?

14:32>> I grant my favor.

14:33>> I grant my favor.

14:34>> I grant my favor.

14:37>> All right. Now,

14:39Mount Ann Road.

14:41>> Can I provide some materials on

14:43>> All right. Great.

14:44>> I forwarded the email, but I guess the

14:45stories

14:47heading out.

14:47>> Yeah. Sounds great to me. Whatever.

14:49Yeah. Hold on.

14:49>> Uh

14:50Oh.

14:52I think that's

14:53>> [clears throat]

15:02>> All right. Um

15:03request for determination of

15:05applicability for 32 Mount Ann Road,

15:07owner applicant Sheila and Paul

15:09McCarthy, [clears throat]

15:10SCC file number 26-106.

15:13Proposed project

15:15after the factory removal with um

15:18proposed mitigation.

15:21>> Um my name's Colleen Burns. I'm an ISA

15:23certified arborist, uh hazard tree

15:25certified. Um I've worked several um

15:30restoration programs for endangered

15:33species. Um

15:35worked IVM

15:37uh my entire career for 25-plus years.

15:41Um

15:43when Sheila had brought me in to kind of

15:45assess the situation after uh the tree

15:47removals had proceeded, um

15:50it

15:51I wanted to take the opportunity to um

15:55go in a different direction rather than

15:57um replacing tree for tree.

15:59Um

16:00to do more of a

16:03transitional zone

16:05um utilizing

16:09pollinator species, uh shrub species, um

16:12some

16:13taller growing shrub species such as

16:15witch hazel, um

16:17sumac species, um, to give it a nice

16:20transitional zone for this area. Uh, the

16:23lake or the pond itself, um, seems to

16:25have quite dense trees around the

16:28entirety of the perimeter of the

16:32pond edge, um,

16:34which is lacking

16:37um,

16:38some pretty important habitat for

16:41for this area for not only, um,

16:44wildlife and

16:50>> [clears throat]

16:50>> birds and such, um, but I'm just going

16:52to go over my project overview. Um, so

16:54my suggestion, primary objective of this

16:56project is to restore and enhance

16:58property's existing native vegetation

17:00while establishing diverse, substantial

17:03transitional habitat that benefits local

17:05wildlife, pollinators, and overall

17:07ecological health of Big Allen Pond.

17:10Rather than relying on extensive new

17:12landscaping or traditional tree for tree

17:13replacement, the proposed restoration

17:16focuses on preserving, encouraging

17:17desirable vegetation,

17:19native vegetation are, um,

17:22already established on the property and

17:23also bringing in, um, more native

17:27species to the property,

17:29um, to create a nice transitional

17:31habitat for wildlife,

17:34um, birds

17:36to provide, um,

17:40erosion control,

17:42um,

17:45The intent is to create natural

17:46transitional habitat, um, consisting of

17:49native shrubs, grasses, sedges, ferns,

17:51wildflowers, and strategically selected

17:54specimen trees. Um, tree species I have

17:57presented, um, in our inventory list

18:00consist of lower growing species to keep

18:02the area,

18:04a little bit less shaded, a little bit

18:06lower, um, providing, you know,

18:09predators to be able to kind of

18:11have that nice descent to the pond.

18:14Um, having areas like this often are

18:17beneficial,

18:18um, particularly for our goose

18:19populations, um, nuisance populations.

18:22Creates more biodiversity,

18:25um,

18:27Let's see. And

18:31it gives it more opportunities for, um,

18:35you know, bird bird nesting habitats,

18:37turtle nesting habitats, which is

18:39important. I didn't really see too much

18:41area where, you know, it would get warm

18:43enough for the turtles to kind of be

18:45able to come up and then lay some eggs.

18:48Um, amphibians and small mammals will be

18:51encouraged through the the lower growing

18:53species, uh, giving them kind of like

18:56some nice shaded spots, but also some

18:58warm areas where they can come out.

19:01Um, to be able to sun themselves. Um, it

19:04also would be a pollinator habitat

19:06enhancement. Um, we had we we initially

19:11surveyed the property, obviously, um,

19:15it was, you know, a lot of

19:16>> [snorts]

19:16>> you you guys had gotten the pictures of

19:18it as far as, you know, stumps left and,

19:21you know, we're very early on the year.

19:22Later in the year, um,

19:25because of the openness it provided,

19:28um, a chance for, you know, asters and

19:31ferns and all sorts of, you know,

19:33flowering species to pop up. We have

19:34documented the such. Um,

19:37but it does create, you know, a

19:40more biodiversity, like much more

19:42biodiversity in the area.

19:44Um, let's see.

19:45For lake protection and water quality,

19:48um, maintaining dense to help intercept

19:50storm water runoff and capture sediment

19:52rather than just having mature trees

19:55that do capture some, but not capture

19:57nearly as much as, um,

20:00nice low growing shrub habitat along

20:02with, um, herbaceous layer.

20:06See, it reduces the movement of

20:07excessive nutrients towards the lake. It

20:09maintains natural vegetative buffers

20:11that support water quality and shoreline

20:13habitat.

20:14Um, we do plan on

20:16There's three main focuses of this area.

20:19One is up by the road, the The is

20:21between a driveway and

20:24the area by the road.

20:26Um we'd like to utilize the strong

20:29populations of witch hazel.

20:31Uh we'd like to add

20:34some conifers up by the edge, perhaps

20:37junipers or some kind of cedars would be

20:40nice. Um we'd also like to add a very

20:43dense population of low-growing winged

20:46sumac.

20:48Um

20:49very good for pollinators, also very

20:52good for um

20:53wildlife.

20:57Food and uh winter storages of you know

20:59sustenance for local birds and

21:02>> Birds.

21:04>> Um

21:06the second area does have

21:08uh overhead power lines going through.

21:10It would not I would not recommend um

21:12planting any sort of

21:14trees with a mature height of on the

21:16outskirts probably you know 20 30 ft.

21:19The interior I wouldn't recommend

21:20anything over um

21:23like a 10-ft height. We'd like to keep

21:25this area very like low-growing shrubs.

21:28Um

21:29Some lowbush blueberry, there's a lot of

21:31nice ferns kind of varieties in this

21:34area. Um some meadowsweet, some

21:38um

21:40native honeysuckle populations. Towards

21:41the bottom there's a good healthy

21:44um few plants of mountain laurel which

21:46we'd like to extend and probably plant a

21:48few more of those in there. And then the

21:50area by the lake where there was one

21:52pine removed. Um

21:54the pine where it was located did not um

21:59affect any sort of shading too much

22:02because there is a large mature oak

22:04within the front um that was kind of

22:06placed right behind it. It's not very

22:08much it's not affecting you know shading

22:10of the water, shading of the shoreline

22:13here. Um but recommended um planting

22:16here either some buttonbush kind of

22:18right along the edge or um some stems of

22:23a native like short-grown willow. Uh

22:25again it provides that nice kind of

22:27transitional

22:29area to be able to access for wildlife

22:31to access in and out of the water

22:33comfortably.

22:38Our ecological justification

22:41this versus traditional tree planting

22:44mature trees do provide important

22:45ecological benefits a restoration

22:47strategy consisting primarily of

22:49replacing or replacement trees will not

22:50fully address the unique habitat

22:52opportunities and site limitations

22:54presented along this developed lakefront

22:57property.

22:58A diverse transitional habitat provides

23:00several complimentary ecological

23:02benefits

23:04greater structural diversity native

23:06shrubs grasses sedges wildflowers and

23:08selected trees provide multiple habitat

23:10layers rather than relying primarily on

23:13the tree canopy.

23:14Improved ground protection.

23:18Continuous low grow vegetation can help

23:20stabilize surface soils and intercept

23:22runoff and reduce sediment movement.

23:25Um

23:25this area in particular does have

23:28you know a pretty decent slope to it.

23:31Um

23:33it does have a little bit of like rock

23:35ledge to it too. So mature trees being

23:37there are more susceptible you know at

23:40maturity for storm damage.

23:43Um

23:45uprooting which causes a lot of you know

23:47erosion and disturbance.

23:49Um

23:52see

23:55Enhance wildlife connectivity dense

23:56shrub herbaceous vegetation provides

23:59protective cover for wildlife moving

24:00between wooded uplands and shoreline

24:03expanded pollinator resources diverse

24:05flowering vegetation provides seasonal

24:07nectar and pollen sources that may be

24:09limited beneath densely shaded canopy.

24:12Natural goose deterrents

24:14shoreline shrubs and grasses may

24:15encourage geese

24:17by reducing the open access and

24:19sightlines.

24:22Reducing infrastructure conflicts

24:24particularly with um like I said the

24:28power line kind of right away extending

24:29through this area.

24:32Um, low-growing vegetation limits the

24:34potential for future conflicts with the

24:37residents and overhead utility

24:38infrastructure.

24:40Um, more immediate habitat benefits,

24:42existing native vegetation can provide

24:45ecological value while newly planted

24:46canopies require years and decades to

24:48mature.

24:49Um, long-term ecological resilience, a

24:52diverse plant community supports

24:53multiple habitat functions, reduces uh

24:56reliance on single vegetation type.

25:00Um, this project would be a multi-year

25:03um, management focus. Um, the first,

25:06obviously, this first year is mostly

25:09um, site survey,

25:11uh recommendations,

25:13and we'll be getting prepared for um,

25:16plantings and

25:18um,

25:19some vegetation, other vegetation

25:21mitigation, such as invasive species

25:24come springtime and summertime, early

25:26summertime.

25:27Um, the multi-year

25:31management plan would consist of

25:32follow-ups to make sure the invasive

25:35plants um, would not be kind of

25:38um, you know, establishing there. We

25:41would want to make sure we keep the

25:42established low-growing herbaceous

25:44layer. Um,

25:47and

25:48kind of adjust at any point uh where we

25:51feel either we need some

25:53you know, if if we need more dense

25:55populations in certain areas, we can

25:57adjust at that point. Um, we will follow

25:59up with documentation of all of this.

26:02Um, and provide it yearly, annually to

26:06the group. Um,

26:09see.

26:12And

26:14overall restoration goal, the objective

26:16is to have um, a healthy, diverse, and

26:19sustainable native transitional habitat

26:22um,

26:23that provides ecological benefits beyond

26:24the property itself. Uh, by emphasizing

26:28existing vegetation, strategic habitat

26:30and

26:30enhancement, invasive species

26:32management, and long-term monitoring.

26:34The project seeks to improve wildlife

26:36habitat, support pollinators, protect

26:38lake water quality, and minimize future

26:41vegetation conflicts.

26:45Does anybody have any questions for me?

26:49>> Um

26:50Do we have a plan that shows exactly how

26:53many you're planting, where?

26:55>> The size.

26:56>> Um I did provide a very crude map. I did

26:59tell Lori I would put together um

27:02uh much more detailed map. That's a

27:05crude map, yeah. So uh I believe

27:08whatever's in red is existing, anything

27:10in black we'd want to bring in. Uh the

27:12goal is for any open areas, we want to

27:15fill in with several stems of um

27:20sumac species, um shrub species.

27:25Uh we have provided a couple of

27:27options as far as our inventory list,

27:29what's already existing on site, and

27:32then some ideas to bring in for um

27:35plantings.

27:38>> Um obviously for those of us that have

27:40been in the site, we know that it

27:41presents a lot of challenges with the

27:42amount of ledge,

27:44um

27:45the topography, the transmission lines.

27:49With what you're proposing up on this

27:51area below the driveway,

27:55are you planning on removing poison ivy

27:58or are you planting up in that area?

28:00Okay.

28:01>> We will be addressing poison ivy. Um

28:03there was observed um

28:06few specimens of invasive species, which

28:08we'll also be mitigating. Um

28:11again, we're we're trying to encourage

28:14um already like a very nice

28:17um population of of native plants and

28:21pollinator

28:22species. Um

28:26And towards the bottom, like I said, we

28:27want to kind of fill in the areas with

28:30with mountain laurel, elderberries

28:32always a good one, too.

28:33Um

28:35But we definitely want to keep

28:37like just this kind of

28:39strip here. Um

28:41Like I said, as as

28:45thick as possible, but a low

28:48low set [clears throat] of species

28:49through there if possible.

28:52Um

28:53Like I said, just to not interfere with

28:54the power lines. There's also propane

28:55tank there.

28:56Um

28:58you know, we want to just have kind of a

29:00you know, we're

29:02Think of safety, too, when it comes to,

29:04you know, the mitigation process, so.

29:07>> And then for this kind of island, we'll

29:10call it, kind of up in this area, um

29:13obviously Mount Dan's not a paved road,

29:16but for what you're proposing, um how

29:18will it do for if road salts end up

29:22being applied, or if, say, down the road

29:25Mount Dan Road Association ever ends up

29:27paving or anything like that, just

29:28making sure that those species would be

29:29tolerant of any road salts that might be

29:32used for safety purposes.

29:33>> Yeah, absolutely.

29:34>> elevated, too. Like it that island is

29:37kind of elevated, and the road is a

29:39little bit lower.

29:41Just I don't know if that matters, but

29:42>> Um we know cedar species are

29:44susceptible, or conifer species are

29:45susceptible to to salting, and um

29:49you know, that kind of

29:53you know, if that's what they're going

29:54to be doing through there, um we would

29:56plant the

29:57any conifers back far enough where it

29:59gives them a little bit of a buffer,

30:01um but also have encouraged um you know,

30:04I think we were talking about maybe some

30:05sweet fern along the edge. Um very

30:07tolerant to kind of anything being done

30:09on the roadside. Um

30:12See max species is also very tolerant,

30:15um

30:16to, you know, any sort of

30:19heat,

30:21um

30:21you know,

30:22I wouldn't say heavy salting is going to

30:24really disturb, you know, the canopy too

30:27much, um

30:28but definitely will will take into

30:30account any sort of conifer species that

30:32might get burnt up from, you know, if if

30:33you guys are going to pave, or if you

30:35guys are going to

30:36um this whole thing.

30:37>> Yeah. Road Association would propose

30:40something, but

30:41>> of all of the neighborhoods on Mountain

30:44Dan, this is probably one of the

30:47least

30:48least active ones right now.

30:51Um

30:53but obviously we're seeing a lot of

30:54changes around our lakes, too. So,

30:56obviously putting all of us together,

30:58that's going to be an investment on your

30:59end. So, obviously just making sure one

31:01for protecting those resources, but two

31:02protecting your investment and making

31:04sure that those pieces will be tolerant.

31:07>> And right now that

31:08Mountain Dan road pitches definitely to

31:10the west, so off of it. And I don't know

31:13if that would change at all with the

31:14with an engineering plan and whatnot,

31:16but it's definitely that's the way

31:17they've always pitched it as far as I

31:20know. That's what we were told.

31:21>> Yeah, there's a drain across the the

31:23road right in front of our

31:25>> They tried to keep that going over

31:26there.

31:26>> Yeah.

31:28Yeah, we're definitely looking into more

31:29of hardy species for these areas.

31:32Um

31:33you know, just for the simple fact they

31:35do, you know, native species, native

31:37hardy species do like much better than

31:40cultivar species in several of these

31:43areas especially being so, you know,

31:45kind of shallow and and leggy. So.

31:54>> I don't have any questions.

31:56I think it looks good.

31:58>> I think the progress when you see

32:00progress after a little while it'll be,

32:02you know, it'll be really, really nice.

32:05Um I like I said, I've done projects

32:06like these for

32:08many, many years and, you know, it's

32:10tough

32:11right off the bat when, you know, you

32:13kind of see

32:14you know, open areas and stuff like

32:16that, but like once it starts to fill in

32:17and it starts being managed, it's going

32:19to, you know, be a really beautiful

32:21site. Um

32:22again, tons of biodiversity.

32:24>> I don't know how much time you spent

32:26kind of in that area, but there's not a

32:28lot of

32:29>> No, I yeah, I kind of looked around like

32:31after seeing their site, I walked, you

32:33know, I kind of went around the lake

32:34just to kind of see if there was any

32:36sort of

32:37um you know, kind of unmaintained

32:38habitats like that and there's really

32:40not. So you know, and I know these types

32:44of areas even in Massachusetts it's

32:46declined you know, 89% since 1950.

32:50There's only 2.8% right now that are

32:52shrub shrub habitats shrub land, you

32:55know, early successional forest. So

32:58I felt this was a good area like a you

33:01know, it's small but it's still a good

33:02area

33:03to kind of be good stewards of the land

33:05and you know, do what you can to kind of

33:07say like yeah, it's easy to plant you

33:09know, a tree for tree but to kind of

33:11have you know, a long-term outlook for

33:14an area like this you'll see the

33:16benefits for sure.

33:20>> I got

33:22first of all the shading the lack of

33:24shading

33:25is a concern.

33:27the lake

33:29As

33:30as I'm concerned that you know, it's a

33:32trout lake we try to keep it cold as we

33:35can.

33:36And um

33:38shade trees are a good thing.

33:40Right.

33:41>> Yeah, I mean

33:42I would say probably 95% of the lake is

33:46shade trees.

33:47>> No, you're wrong.

33:48>> You think so?

33:49>> No.

33:51At least if that's the case I haven't

33:52been going to where the shade trees are

33:54because everywhere I go I'm seeing

33:57you know, new houses with big grass

33:59lawns.

34:02>> So as far as I think as far as the

34:04shading is

34:06this picture here is really not

34:09representative of what it looks like

34:11today.

34:12And and certainly even that

34:15where the um

34:17the propane tank is I mean that is

34:19flourished and so it's it's got a lot of

34:21again not shade but it's it's definitely

34:23flourished. It looks so much different

34:25than it did

34:26in this picture. As far as shading goes

34:29over that dock area I don't know if you

34:31can

34:32see it there you go. So right in this

34:34area

34:36the shade

34:37these trees here provide

34:40virtually the same amount of shade as

34:41what there was

34:42before these trees were taken out. And

34:44and I can guarantee that. You can come

34:45over anytime. Cuz this right here

34:48provides the shade here during most of

34:50the most of the afternoon after 2:00. Um

34:54>> Well, the sun comes across this way. So,

34:56you got to remember that.

34:57>> And so, I think the amount of shade

35:00that's And I'm assuming that the shade

35:02that we're talking about is the shade

35:04that affects here.

35:05>> Affects the lake, yeah.

35:06>> Yeah.

35:07I would venture I would ask ask you to

35:09actually come and look to kind of

35:12really demonstrate how much shade is

35:14lost or that is there during any

35:16afternoon because it's it

35:18>> Yeah.

35:18>> I I would really invite you to do that

35:20cuz I I think it wasn't as much as you

35:22might think looking at this particular

35:24picture.

35:25>> I I would just like to point out um this

35:27area here is where we're planning on um

35:31a post uh button bush or some willows,

35:34which is going to be lower, but it's

35:35also going to hang out over the water

35:37more, and that will provide some

35:39>> Yeah.

35:39>> um you know, some lower shade for fish

35:42species um to take advantage of and you

35:45know, quite often we find uh you know,

35:48those kind of species do like to kind of

35:49like hide and lay eggs in those certain

35:51areas. So, it is a ben- it would be a

35:52benefit to, you know, the loss of the

35:55pine tree. Well, you know, it like I

35:57said, it didn't provide

36:00you know, a great amount of shade um

36:03by itself with this oak here. The oak

36:05actually provides much more shade. It

36:07extends out, you know, much farther than

36:09the pine ever did.

36:11Um but like down in here, like below the

36:14canopy where, you know, light would be

36:15coming through, this would have a

36:17substantial amount of shade now

36:19um with proposed species.

36:21>> This is a picture of the site.

36:23>> That's it.

36:24>> I was wrong on that.

36:25Looks like that's a picture of the site.

36:26>> Yeah, that's the site from um if you're

36:28looking from this area this way just so

36:31I could get um a better view. It's it's

36:33it's grass right now in front of like

36:35the stump. Um so again,

36:38>> That's what she's putting.

36:38>> the button bush really should be play

36:40like for for that like mock-up picture,

36:42it should be actually in like the edge

36:43of the water. Buttonbush actually really

36:45likes, you know, highly wet

36:48soil areas, so um it would definitely be

36:51a good spot for it. It would, you know,

36:53after a while it would be filling in

36:54kind of along this edge here, um

36:57making a really nice spot for

36:59for all kinds of like fish species and

37:01turtle species to kind of use it to

37:04kind of hide in during the sun. Um

37:07but it's definitely much more beneficial

37:08than, you know, planting another pine

37:10tree there, so.

37:13>> What?

37:14>> Um

37:16it's a little bit hard like I I love the

37:17description and and the materials I

37:19provided is a little bit still like hard

37:21like to conceptualize what is going

37:23where. Um so this is not the this is not

37:27the final one.

37:28>> No, definitely not the final one.

37:29>> So having something like this where you

37:31kind of like shows what where were the

37:34things that were removed, what are the

37:35proposed trees and the proposed shrubs

37:37like it would be like super beneficial

37:39for me to see what the things are going.

37:42Um

37:44the

37:45you mentioned the shrubs

37:47yeah, instead of having a replacement

37:49tree here like having like the shrubs

37:52and the willows. Uh but it wasn't clear

37:55the trees that were a proposed around

37:57the shed and in this area if they were

38:00still replanted or those were also going

38:02to be all shrubs.

38:03>> Can I approach for a second? Okay.

38:09>> I mean this is the picture of the hill.

38:11>> Yeah, like the whole side of it. You

38:12know, like I said, the depiction this

38:13would be the upper um

38:15>> Oh, but this is

38:15>> Can I see the

38:16>> That is that area, okay.

38:17>> Yeah, the top area. Um

38:19So right now there is existing, you

38:21know, dogwood species. The the way Yeah,

38:25I think they did our um

38:28map and the

38:30witch hazel is just not very accurate.

38:33Um the witch hazel is going to be if

38:35you're facing it's going to be, you

38:36know, between 15 to 40 ft you know,

38:40mature height.

38:40>> Yeah.

38:41>> And density is going to be very, you

38:43know, it's going to be very dense.

38:45>> So it's not like low shrub tree like low

38:46shrubs but it's going to be like high

38:48higher shrubs or

38:49>> so like at the top the top side of the

38:51slope going down, it's like the first

38:53area is going to have the taller

38:55species.

38:56Um as we go down like I said close to

38:58the power [clears throat] lines, we're

38:58going to focus more on like

39:00lower-growing species. I would do

39:01blueberry, um

39:04uh elderberry,

39:06um there's quite a few mountain laurel

39:08at the bottom there that we'd like to

39:10continue. Uh that will also fill in and

39:12be But that would be the highest

39:15size shrubs kind of going through the

39:17area, and probably the mountain laurel.

39:18So, like I said, the depiction of these

39:20things is

39:21>> Yeah, I know, that's good.

39:22>> Um but again,

39:24you know, our plan is to, you know,

39:26provide uh long-term

39:29um

39:31management for the area. We'll update

39:34obviously annually on like the site

39:35conditions and progress, so.

39:39>> So, in total um

39:42do you have an estimate of the number of

39:43shrubs and the number of

39:46like short shrubs

39:47>> It's going to be

39:48>> like higher shrubs from our starting and

39:50and trees.

39:51>> So, there were going to be some Sorry,

39:52there were going to be some trees still

39:54planted. Planted like Yes. Um so, I mean

39:58our species for the top area,

40:01um there's going to be

40:04probably 30 40-plus stems by the time

40:07we're done um of sumac. There's uh over

40:1130-plus stems of um

40:15the witch hazel growing in,

40:17um

40:18this lower-growing like hazelnut will

40:20probably get It gets around, you know,

40:23like 8 10 ft tall.

40:25Um but they'll be, you know, several

40:28I would say like several hundred stems

40:29of that, you know,

40:31couple years out.

40:33Um

40:34the

40:35mountain laurel at the bottom, I would

40:37like to get I mean,

40:39the mountain laurel gets pretty pretty

40:41big. I want to say it probably gets

40:43right around 15 ft tall.

40:44Um but as far as when it fills in,

40:47there'll be I maybe like a half a dozen

40:49at the bottom, but I mean we're talking

40:50about like big mature mountain laurel

40:54after a little while. So, I mean it's

40:56going to look

40:57again, it's hard to

40:59kind of picture it right now.

41:01Um but as you see the progress, you

41:03know, it will it will come together and

41:05you know, you'll see the benefits of

41:07like what what the plan is for here.

41:09>> And you mentioned that this would take

41:11um

41:13this is going to be done in multiple

41:14stages. So, how long does it take? So,

41:15when

41:16um what do you what do you be the

41:17timeline? So, for example, like to get

41:20the full habitat is how many years like

41:24to reach that?

41:25>> Uh for for like a full mature habitat,

41:28um I would say you're going to get some

41:30pretty close to mature stuff within

41:33you know, 4-5 years.

41:36Um

41:37this summer or this spring time alone

41:39will will reflect um you know, just how

41:42much benefit it is to kind of poke out a

41:45couple of trees and let sunlight in and

41:47let everything kind of grow up. It

41:49already started to since like the first

41:51picture you guys have had there.

41:53Um

41:54I do have some pictures

41:56uh from a couple weeks ago when we did

41:58the site visit with Lori that I can pass

42:00along to and I can definitely send, you

42:02know, the documentation

42:04um come this spring time, you know, as

42:07to the advancement of what we're going

42:09to be seeing here.

42:12>> I forgot what it's called. Is there

42:15something some type of like an invasive

42:17or something in Massachusetts that's

42:19affecting witch hazel right now?

42:20>> I don't believe so. There's a lot of for

42:23beech trees. There's

42:25>> There's something I saw recently

42:28for witch hazel in Massachusetts that

42:30it's it's like

42:31as of this year, something that's

42:33starting to kind of see. I don't

42:34remember what it was, but

42:36>> I can look into it. I mean

42:38>> It it's just one of the if

42:40because obviously we're we're recovering

42:42from one thing and now we're facing the

42:46spotted lantern flies and then when

42:48that's over, that's going to be the next

42:49thing.

42:50>> Yeah. if

42:51and I I know it was something with witch

42:53hazel, but if we can try and think

42:55>> witch hazel blight

42:56>> Okay. So, if we can figure out if

42:59there's something to Maybe that's just

43:02where it's sourced from. If there's not

43:03a lot of witch hazel, just to kind of

43:05like keep that safe. I don't know.

43:07>> Yeah, I mean I

43:09I don't know how popular it is here, but

43:11I I do have um

43:13you know, applicator's license for both

43:15wetland and for

43:17you know, right-of-way licenses for um

43:19you know, any sort of

43:21um either not I'm not going to say an

43:23herbicide, but like any sort of a

43:24treatment, like a foliar treatment for

43:27>> Okay.

43:27>> um the witch hazel.

43:29>> Just something to

43:30>> fungicide

43:30>> move forward with that, just to keep an

43:31eye on it.

43:32>> Did you say there's already a bunch

43:33there of the witch hazel that was

43:35>> that's yeah.

43:37There's like a very nice healthy

43:38population.

43:40>> Maybe it's worth putting a full-size

43:41tree, you know, down there. I mean, it's

43:43going to be for the next generation

43:45anyway. You'll have

43:47you know

43:48This will be something you'll have.

43:49>> Where would you propose a full-size

43:50tree?

43:50>> Where were you Where you putting the

43:52willows along the lake? Maybe put

43:54something there.

43:55>> Oh, well, you weren't in on the other

43:57one, were you? Cuz there's Were you at

43:59the other meeting?

44:01There's really no

44:02>> Okay.

44:02>> There's no That That just kind of shifts

44:05all the way straight down right there.

44:07There's really not any spot in there.

44:10>> Okay.

44:10>> And that tree, like she said, it was

44:13pretty much dead, so there was real It

44:15wasn't really providing anything

44:17>> Okay.

44:17>> before.

44:18And

44:20it was very dangerous. It kept dropping

44:22huge limbs and things right where we

44:24walk back and forth to the water. But

44:26anyway, so that that was kind of

44:29why that we didn't propose any trees in

44:31that space.

44:32>> Up on the upper

44:34side here, um

44:36there are some, you know

44:39some good healthy-looking specimens that

44:41are, you know, nothing like crazy big,

44:44but like something that's like a 4-in,

44:456-in. Um I think I marked down on my

44:48crude map um what's existing there

44:51already that we'd like to encourage. Um

44:54you know, the black birch will end up

44:55kind of shifting out

44:57you know it's kind of like

45:00position itself like out away from you

45:02know any of these canopies here

45:05and like I said there's some other like

45:07smaller ones that you know we will

45:09um

45:11you know pay close attention to kind of

45:12prune them as needed to kind of keep

45:14them a healthy stem instead of something

45:16that's you know

45:18down the road in danger of becoming a

45:20hazard so

45:23>> How tall are the dogwoods that you're

45:24talking about?

45:25>> Um they're they're native species so I

45:27would say between

45:31I mean the more sun they get they get

45:33bigger so I would say

45:36you know the dogwoods can get up I think

45:37like 25 25 ft

45:39>> can get taller than the tall laurels so

45:41you do you do have a few trees in there

45:43that will be well and get taller

45:45>> And again like I would definitely like

45:46to keep the taller growing specimens up

45:48here

45:50you know anything that could kind of get

45:51too tall and

45:53have a problem either you know

45:54especially with like some heavy either

45:56snowstorms or like ice storms anything

45:58that's going to bend over onto lines

46:00going to be create a hazard so

46:01>> Any possibility of any seedlings from

46:03the old oaks coming up or anything like

46:04that?

46:04>> Yeah we've identified a few of them um

46:08again it's it's something we can do is

46:10encourage those ones also

46:12>> That would be great.

46:13>> Down the road

46:15you know it is going to end up shading

46:16out like the kind of progress we're

46:18making here but you know

46:20there was I think probably eight

46:22identified that have like nice good

46:24single stemmed you know healthy looking

46:26trees coming up so

46:27in a variety species we had a couple

46:29hickories

46:31black cherry

46:32a couple maples red oaks I mean some

46:35good stuff you know

46:36>> Sure so I mean something out of that I

46:37guess just to kind of talk to your reals

46:39something out of that I think we need

46:41is a layout of

46:42where you see this going.

46:45Lot plan I don't know what you want to

46:46call it. [clears throat]

46:47>> Okay I mean do you want something that's

46:48kind of like the

46:50the previous the previous plans or did

46:52you want something that's kind of

46:53something you can

46:56you know like year one year two.

46:58>> Where do you want to go?

47:00Doesn't have to be a previous plan or

47:03you know, the plan the way you want it.

47:06>> So, like I mean just visually I wanted

47:08like an aerial plan.

47:11>> Our timeline? Are we looking at it like

47:13Is that what you mean?

47:14>> No, just a

47:16of the site.

47:17>> Yeah, like

47:17>> Like what the site's going to look like

47:18after 3 years.

47:20>> Okay.

47:20>> So, like

47:21>> Something like

47:23>> having something like that.

47:24>> details

47:27>> That's more specificity.

47:31>> This is the previous This is the

47:32previous plan like showing like the the

47:34trees that were

47:35>> So, you want like a blueprint kind of

47:36>> Yeah, exactly. So, it's like okay, this

47:38area is going to have the the shrubs

47:41like

47:42>> Tell me about it.

47:42>> I mean this area like I mean rather than

47:44having like a bunch of I mean the way

47:46they usually typically show trees it

47:47would be like with your canopy size. Um

47:49but like I said, something like the

47:51witch hazels sumac areas is going to be

47:54you know, more of like an oblong you

47:56know, kind of

47:58you know, with a whole bunch of stems in

47:59here. You know, so rather than like

48:01having like just a bunch of little dots,

48:03I would like to show like the the full

48:04canopy of that as far as I mean I can

48:07>> I would probably recommend I think the

48:08point is like this one doesn't show

48:10where the house is, where the

48:11[clears throat]

48:11I can work with you on that, but I would

48:13definitely recommend for ones where

48:15you're kind of doing like a cluster.

48:17Like if you're doing witch hazel, you

48:18can kind of shade it and or say this is

48:20a mixture of witch hazel and sumac and

48:23then a separate list that's like we are

48:25planting a total of 30 stems of witch

48:27hazel, 30 So, kind of like two

48:29documents. We have an old site plan like

48:32a surveyed site plan from the prior

48:35owner for when he was doing some work.

48:37If that's helpful, I can scan that and

48:39then you can kind of

48:41I can send you that one.

48:46Yeah.

48:46It's It's from like

48:48like a year or two before you guys

48:50bought the house. So, it's fairly recent

48:52as far and that should help.

48:53>> The purpose of these was just kind of to

48:55show as far as like, you know, how

48:57roughly how it would be filled in you

49:00know, once everything starts to get like

49:01established and growing.

49:03Just to show

49:05you know, instead of it being

49:06>> Yeah, no, that's super helpful. Yeah, I

49:07think that was awesome, actually.

49:09>> Yeah, it looks like

49:09>> I think yeah, I think it just show

49:10regions and just like you're saying the

49:11amount of stems, I think that's what's

49:13holding everybody up on that, but I

49:15think that's what it is.

49:15>> Yeah, no, there's going to be I mean, to

49:17to say like a stem amount, like I know

49:19you guys are thinking in relation of

49:21like mature mature size trees. I'm more

49:23thinking of

49:25you know, kind of filled in areas with

49:28like a

49:30great amount of stems. I mean, so.

49:33>> So, the area is going to be filled like

49:34uh

49:35>> Yes, yes. There's not really going to be

49:37any sort of like, I mean, when I say

49:39open areas, it's not going to be, you

49:41know, like a big open grass area. It's

49:43going to be canopy of like lower growing

49:45species, so.

49:46>> All right.

49:46>> Um obviously, they wouldn't be able to

49:48do any planting [snorts] until spring.

49:50Do you want to kind of see all that

49:53before you approve something or what?

49:56>> I think surely you can't do it till

49:58spring.

49:59>> It's I mean, with the drought this year,

50:00it's not recommended. Um you'll have

50:03especially right now, everything's

50:04getting kind of cold and um

50:06you know, with frost and stuff like

50:08that, there's not a high likelihood of

50:10survival for anything we plant. Um

50:13you know, like I said, the

50:14the initial is to just kind of get

50:17um you know, what we want to keep, get

50:19an inventory of that, get a health

50:21assessment of, you know, those plants.

50:25Kind of

50:26mitigate the and invasive species

50:29through through methods and have a good

50:31canvas come, you know, the springtime,

50:33so.

50:34>> The conditions just

50:37>> What do you guys want to [snorts] do?

50:38>> We move it along, I just have conditions

50:39to do that or

50:41>> What would you prefer?

50:43>> I don't know. What do you guys want to

50:44do? I'm I'm

50:46I'm game with the plan that she's got

50:48going as far as

50:50you know,

50:51I just want to see.

50:52>> Yeah.

50:54>> Yeah, I definitely want to slow down.

50:56>> Do you want to see it before you approve

50:58it? Do you want to approve it and add a

50:59condition that we

51:01>> Approve it when we see it. I I have no

51:03problem with what she's saying.

51:06>> I think it's it's good like to have

51:09site plans for

51:10>> I

51:11I THINK THAT A POISON IVY actually looks

51:13really awesome. I'm sorry.

51:15>> [laughter]

51:16>> But I mean as far as next meeting we'd

51:18be looking at November 24th or December

51:2017th.

51:21>> I mean if you're not

51:22>> we're not going to be doing anything,

51:23yeah.

51:24>> I'm not I'm fine with whatever.

51:26>> Yeah.

51:27>> Okay, December 17th.

51:29>> I'll make it easier. Whatever is easiest

51:31for you guys.

51:33>> Well, it's um I mean is this just to

51:35kind of provide the mapping?

51:36>> Yes.

51:37>> Yes, I mean could they send it so she

51:38doesn't have to come back in or I mean

51:42>> If whatever whatever you are

51:44>> Thing if we

51:45provide it so she might not have to come

51:47and present again.

51:47>> I could do

51:49um

51:49>> No, she's got to come in and tell us

51:51where it is and where it is.

51:53>> Okay,

51:54any chance I could come

51:55Any chance we could zoom this or

51:57something?

51:58>> I just want to make sure you understand

51:59that.

51:59>> Yeah, it's way far away.

52:00>> Yeah, we could really zoom it. I'm not

52:02sure where you're coming from, so.

52:04>> Okay.

52:05>> So

52:06>> December 17th, that would gives you a

52:07little bit of time to

52:09get visuals together. I can work with

52:11you on that and get the list together

52:13and

52:13>> Yeah, like I said if you have, you know,

52:15some kind of a site map of the area

52:17already kind of, you know,

52:19>> Make a note to send that to you.

52:20>> It'll be make it much easier.

52:22>> Did Lori have anything to say

52:23[clears throat] after the visit or

52:25to add?

52:27Oh, you don't know.

52:28>> What was the question?

52:29>> She had said some stuff.

52:30>> Lori, did she have any

52:32comments after her visit with

52:34>> Uh nothing nothing we got. Did you get

52:36any?

52:37When was the visit?

52:39>> Uh she just gave me her notes.

52:40>> I know.

52:41>> three weeks ago.

52:42>> Um

52:44Just throwing this out there for you.

52:45>> She [clears throat] she sent an email

52:46after she met with you.

52:47>> Yeah.

52:48>> Yeah, she sent an email and your resume

52:49and stuff. We appreciate it.

52:51>> Yeah, no problem. Um I did I know other

52:54people are like looking for, you know,

52:55native, you know,

52:57um kind of plant providers. New England

52:59>> wetland plants in South Hadley is

53:01awesome if anyone's asking, so.

53:02>> Sure. Okay.

53:03>> We deal with them a lot. They're They

53:04have everything, so.

53:06>> Fantastic.

53:07>> They also give you mixes at like every

53:09conservation event.

53:11>> great stock up. They They do.

53:14>> So, they're going to [clears throat] be

53:14there this weekend?

53:15>> Um

53:16>> So, make a motion

53:17>> Continuation. Missed that up. Anybody in

53:19the audience like to speak to this?

53:21>> Okay.

53:21>> All right. Thank you.

53:22>> So, for the project at 32 Mount Tom

53:25Road, ICC file number 26-

53:28106, I make the motion to continue the

53:31public hearing to December 17th.

53:34>> I'll have a second.

53:35>> Second.

53:37>> All in favor?

53:37>> Center money favor.

53:39>> Guerin favor.

53:40>> McGrath on favor.

53:41>> Great.

53:42>> Thank you. Thank you.

53:43>> Thank you. Thank you. Thank you,

53:44appreciate it.

53:45>> Thanks a lot.

53:46>> Thank you. Yeah, I'll send that to you

53:47next week. Um if you don't hear from me

53:50towards the end of the week, just shoot

53:51me a little email reminder and I'll send

53:52that over.

53:53>> I have a work email and I have my

53:54personal email.

53:55>> Yeah, whatever you had sent Lori's

53:56emails get forwarded to me now. So, I

53:58saw I just saw what you had sent over

54:01earlier, so.

54:01>> All right. Thank you very much.

54:02>> Thank you.

54:03>> Have a good one.

54:04>> Thanks a lot.

54:04>> Thanks a lot.

54:05>> All right. We're now at 328 the trail,

54:08request for a minor activity

54:12change to allow the removal of

54:15trees.

54:16>> And do

54:17>> Dash 118182.

54:19>> Do you mind if I interject for a second?

54:21>> What?

54:21>> Do you mind if I interject for 1 second?

54:23Is there a particular project you all

54:25are here for?

54:26>> Which one?

54:29Oh.

54:30Mashapaug Road?

54:32So, the

54:34>> Don't even tell me.

54:34>> The applicant did not follow

54:37instructions, preemptively sent out

54:39about our notifications. I rejected and

54:42did not accept their application.

54:44>> And you didn't let us know.

54:47>> We I mean, they

54:48>> I've been sitting here.

54:49>> on the agenda.

54:54It's not It's not on the agenda. It's

54:56just They They didn't get accepted.

55:00For Breakneck, the forest cutting plan.

55:02>> Yes.

55:02>> Yep.

55:03That's past the trail past the dump.

55:05>> Okay.

55:06>> Yep, up that hill, that area that is

55:08whole forest and owned by the church.

55:10>> it's never going to happen or

55:12>> No.

55:12>> Um

55:13>> No, I'm talking about the

55:14>> I can't say it won't never happen, but

55:17they did not follow proper processes or

55:19steps and they have to start at square

55:21one before they jump the line and try

55:24and go through us.

55:25>> Okay, thank you.

55:26>> Thank you.

55:27>> There's a lot happening with the state

55:29right now.

55:32So, you have to stay aware of it. I

55:33mean,

55:34you know.

55:36There

55:37is a lot happening with the state right

55:39now. So, you need to

55:41be aware of.

55:42>> How do we get through the DP and what's

55:44going on?

55:44>> The state has made a lot of changes to

55:47solar sighting in the state and we have

55:49a bylaw proposed at the special town

55:51meeting,

55:52um which is Monday, November 16th, if

55:54you're all available to come to that.

55:56>> to go and vote on that.

55:56>> Um

55:57but

55:59>> But, that still may not happen.

56:00>> We anticipate in the next coming years

56:02there'll be more projects like that, but

56:03we're as of right now that application

56:06was rejected.

56:07>> That was a large scale solar

56:08[clears throat] project, right?

56:08>> Sorry.

56:11>> I hope you enjoy the meeting.

56:13>> [laughter]

56:15>> Man, she just answered my question.

56:17>> is a large scale project.

56:18>> Yeah, I didn't know they actually sent

56:20all the mountain.

56:22>> Yeah.

56:22Oh, sure. What's up? Go ahead.

56:24>> It's a large scale project.

56:26It's not just a

56:28>> It

56:29>> It's not just a

56:30>> We're just worried we're really behind

56:32them.

56:32>> Yeah.

56:32>> And we're worried about our well.

56:34>> Oh, sure.

56:35>> It was a bare-bones minimal plan with

56:37barely any detail, but it was very it

56:39was very small.

56:41>> Probably.

56:42>> Supposedly as an income source for the

56:45church, but we

56:48we didn't get much beyond that minus me

56:50just saying that we rejected it.

56:52>> Right, yeah.

56:53>> Yep.

56:53>> Yeah, no.

56:54>> That's what they own.

56:55>> Yeah.

56:56>> Okay, so it's the church that owns it.

56:58>> We're we immediately applied that.

57:01>> Oh, got you there. Yeah.

57:05>> No, special town meeting Monday,

57:06November 16th at the high school.

57:08>> Thank you.

57:08>> Thank you so much.

57:09>> Yeah, we have to go and both of these

57:10after we leave here.

57:11>> Yeah.

57:12>> Good call, Lauren.

57:14>> I just There's not a lot left on here,

57:16so I kind of just

57:19Make them, yeah.

57:20>> All right, back to it. So, we're on

57:21number five, the trail.

57:23Uh 528

57:25trail.

57:26Question nine or activity

57:29removal of trees.

57:31>> All right.

57:32>> 300-1182. [clears throat]

57:35All right?

57:39>> Hello, can you hear me?

57:40>> Yep, you sound good.

57:42>> Oh, wonderful. Thanks, Ted.

57:44Um

57:45so, Michael is also on this call. He is

57:49the arborist who wrote up the report for

57:52328, the trail.

57:54Um so, he will be speaking to his

57:57report.

57:59I'm here really to see if you have any

58:02initial questions for me regarding this.

58:05Um I did meet with Lori.

58:08Um I think it was earlier this week or

58:10it was

58:12late last week and made sure she had the

58:14site plan updated

58:17with where things are currently coming

58:20out or hoping to come out and then where

58:24we're open to replanting.

58:26Um

58:28and yeah, so that's that's really what I

58:31figured I'd start with and just see cuz

58:32I'm pretty sure this is a continuation

58:34from the last meeting.

58:39Yes. Yeah.

58:40Okay.

58:41Yeah, and don't mind my

58:43um

58:45very rudimentary drawing. I am not like

58:49Mike from Landscape Evolution with a

58:52nice site plan drawing or anything like

58:55that. Um

58:56this is basically just what I drew. Um I

58:59did put the distance away from the

59:04wetland line for each tree. It's written

59:07in red. Um

59:10for replanting, anything that is a green

59:14square with a T in it is where we're

59:16open to tree locations. Anything with a

59:20green circle with an S in it is where

59:22we're open to shrub locations.

59:35>> Using the new trees, I'm sorry.

59:39Which ones?

59:39>> Um these are the what we saw when we

59:43>> Yeah, I

59:45>> Two meetings ago we went out and looked

59:46at it. So, they updated the plan to show

59:49what they're

59:49what they're requesting to remove.

59:51>> Sure.

59:52>> And then proposed mitigation locations.

59:56>> And the

59:57>> Yeah.

59:57>> the tree risk assessment is just of the

59:58ones we we looked at that day, correct?

1:00:02It's not another tree risk assessment

1:00:03map.

1:00:10>> I see.

1:00:10>> So, I I can uh interject. So, I know

1:00:14from two meetings ago it was the initial

1:00:17trees that

1:00:20um

1:00:20I just keep calling it the original

1:00:22scope of work, which is what you had

1:00:24looked at, the two on either side of the

1:00:26house, and then the two on the right

1:00:29side of the left driveway entrance. Um

1:00:34and then Rocco, the homeowner, had

1:00:36thought about maybe trying to request

1:00:39request more trees, and I told him

1:00:43essentially like that's probably

1:00:46not the best idea.

1:00:48Um we should just stick to the original

1:00:50scope of work because the more you take

1:00:52out, the more they're going to want you

1:00:53to plant in your front yard between the

1:00:55house and the water. Um and we already

1:00:58have to do uh six tree mitigation plan

1:01:02for that. So,

1:01:04um he said, "Yeah, no, that that makes a

1:01:06lot of sense."

1:01:08Um and so, the only thing that did

1:01:10change was Michael did

1:01:13um

1:01:14revise one portion of the report for the

1:01:19two trees for removal on the

1:01:24right-hand side of the left driveway

1:01:26entrance.

1:01:28After the work is finished with ground

1:01:31effects

1:01:33and after

1:01:35any tree work that happens, the driveway

1:01:38itself is not in the greatest condition

1:01:39to begin with and with just equipment

1:01:43going, you know, around that driveway

1:01:45multiple times for the construction as

1:01:47well as tree removal

1:01:51it's going to need to get replaced in

1:01:54the next year or two and so

1:01:58with the driveway being replaced, that

1:02:01will then damage the root systems on the

1:02:04oak and the hickory and so Michael had

1:02:08updated his arbor support to show that

1:02:12once the driveway gets done, those trees

1:02:14will need to come out and it's

1:02:16preferable to have them come out

1:02:17beforehand

1:02:20rather than after the driveway gets

1:02:22done.

1:02:25>> Okay, thank you.

1:02:27>> Thank you.

1:02:29>> All right.

1:02:32>> Um

1:02:34I mean, we looked at the trees that were

1:02:35there and the history. This is actually

1:02:39more vegetation that's been on the site

1:02:41since the '60s and the site was

1:02:43initially developed in the '60s. The

1:02:46trees that we did observe were

1:02:49apparently declining and there were some

1:02:51that were

1:02:52you know, bare at the top.

1:02:55So, it really just kind of was coming

1:02:56down to the mitigation from my

1:02:57perspective and what was going to be

1:03:00available and offered. So, that's why I

1:03:02requested that Sam works with the

1:03:03homeowner to see what he'd be open to as

1:03:05well so that way everyone is on the same

1:03:07page.

1:03:08Um there was also some buffer zone

1:03:10restoration planting that was required

1:03:12as part of the dock installation, too.

1:03:15>> Okay.

1:03:15>> So, um

1:03:20kind of

1:03:21what you want to require if you want to

1:03:23approve the trees and what you'd want to

1:03:24require for mitigation.

1:03:27>> Well, from from my point of view

1:03:34with some an outlier. I the only thing I

1:03:36I

1:03:37because of the

1:03:38the location

1:03:42this same way.

1:03:43Not this one.

1:03:46>> I tested them all earlier.

1:03:49>> It might turn out

1:03:50the two

1:03:52the two trees right here,

1:03:54the hickory and the oak

1:03:56right next to the building

1:03:57>> Yeah.

1:03:58>> coming down and I would have no problem

1:04:00with

1:04:01those two being removed. They're fairly

1:04:04uh

1:04:06distant from the water.

1:04:08Uh

1:04:10But

1:04:11the rest of it

1:04:13I wouldn't vote.

1:04:14And

1:04:15>> Yeah. And And all I was saying is say

1:04:17that and I understand that and totally

1:04:20respect that.

1:04:21Um

1:04:22I do think it's important to maintain

1:04:25some high full growth trees with a

1:04:28mature canopy on that lake, especially

1:04:31considering there are other locations

1:04:35um right around 328 that don't have as

1:04:39much um

1:04:42canopy or any canopy at all, it feels

1:04:44like in some of the some of the um

1:04:48properties on the trail right by that.

1:04:50And so, I think it's important that we

1:04:53restore it, which is why um we're open

1:04:56to proposing the idea of trees that are

1:05:01closer to the water. I will say

1:05:05um

1:05:05the two pines on the rear right corner,

1:05:09they are while their canopy still looks,

1:05:14you know, halfway decent their root

1:05:16system is quickly failing and the trees

1:05:20are starting to have a significant lean.

1:05:22And so, those are becoming like a a

1:05:25genuine

1:05:27safety hazard.

1:05:28Um and the root system will continue to

1:05:31diminish as the tree

1:05:34sits there. And so, I think it'd be

1:05:37beneficial to take those out and maybe

1:05:39put in

1:05:40um

1:05:41maybe like a few other things. I don't

1:05:43know if you want to keep it specific to

1:05:45like conifer trees or anything of that

1:05:48nature or if you'd be open to maybe

1:05:52like a couple red maples or an oak of

1:05:55some sort, especially because if you're

1:05:57okay with the oak up by the driveway

1:05:59coming out, I I think it'd be important

1:06:01to

1:06:02um replenish that oak. And so, I um

1:06:06that's That's really my two cents on it

1:06:08is from a tree

1:06:11tree

1:06:12tree company, I guess, perspective,

1:06:15those pines are something that I would

1:06:18not want on my own property.

1:06:27>> Well, I guess that's

1:06:30opinion. I've got a ton of those pines

1:06:33on my property.

1:06:35>> Yeah.

1:06:36>> Uh

1:06:38And it gets to a point this if you look

1:06:41on this site

1:06:42um

1:06:44and you look at the grass

1:06:46>> Mhm.

1:06:47>> I mean, it is

1:06:48full of

1:06:51herbicides, pesticides, the whole the

1:06:54whole nine yards.

1:06:55I mean, you can just look at it and see

1:06:57it.

1:06:58And um every time that there's a

1:07:00rainstorm

1:07:02some of that gets washed into the lake.

1:07:05And if you uh

1:07:09I mean, so

1:07:11what can I tell you? Everybody has their

1:07:12own opinion on this.

1:07:14>> Question for you, Ed,

1:07:15because I don't know who does his

1:07:18landscaping there. That's also his

1:07:20secondary home. If I were to have it or

1:07:25if I were to request that you put it in

1:07:27the condition that

1:07:30with the mitigation he finds a organic

1:07:34solution to his lawn care, would that be

1:07:37something that you're open to?

1:07:40I know when I used to work at SavATree,

1:07:43they're like a national tree company.

1:07:46Their their main bread and butter is

1:07:48plant health care and they offer organic

1:07:51solutions for

1:07:54like lawn treatment or

1:07:56um

1:07:57like grubs treatments and things like

1:08:00that. And I actually that's where I met

1:08:01Michael who's on this call with me.

1:08:04We used to be co-workers in the same

1:08:06branch. He's a certified arborist and he

1:08:10could talk to you

1:08:11in a much smarter, more eloquent detail

1:08:15about organic plant health care.

1:08:18>> I can say in the existing order of

1:08:21conditions, one it's in the in our bylaw

1:08:24it says no herbicides, pesticides,

1:08:26fungicides, or road salts within 100 ft

1:08:28of a wetland resource area. If you're

1:08:31using

1:08:33alternatives, they have to be approved

1:08:35before the commission. It's also

1:08:37reinstated in the current order of

1:08:40conditions that he has for that property

1:08:42and also perpetual condition. So when he

1:08:44when he's done with this existing order

1:08:46of conditions and that's closed out, not

1:08:48only is it in the bylaw but it's carried

1:08:50on with his order of conditions

1:08:52perpetually. So

1:08:53>> Okay. Yeah, yeah, that's something I

1:08:55didn't know about bylaws.

1:08:58And I don't I genuinely don't know what

1:09:00he does to his lawn for treatment

1:09:03and I would not be when it comes to lawn

1:09:05care, I am not

1:09:07educated enough in that specific

1:09:10department to be able to tell what he's

1:09:12using to treat his lawn

1:09:15just based off of a photo. So that's

1:09:17just why I offered that to try to you

1:09:20know

1:09:21I enjoy my relationship with all of you

1:09:23and so I'd like to keep that going the

1:09:25way it is and so I figured if we

1:09:28discussed an organic

1:09:30lawn care treatment that might be

1:09:32something that would work in everybody's

1:09:34favor.

1:09:38>> Well, that was kind of a non sequitur on

1:09:39my part. I didn't mean to

1:09:42go there but it's just

1:09:46>> That's a tough one.

1:09:47>> What?

1:09:47>> That's a tough one.

1:09:48>> Yeah.

1:09:49>> You're not sure if he is going organic.

1:09:50>> The mitigation is also tough too because

1:09:52when you're looking at

1:09:54>> I mean if you do a ton of if with

1:09:56organic fertilizer you just have to do a

1:09:57lot more. You know what I'm saying? To

1:09:59get that look. So, it's possible if he

1:10:02has the right company. It's just it's

1:10:03still it's still fertilizer right next

1:10:05to the water and if say you even if it's

1:10:08organic and you throw it down it's still

1:10:09going to get growing the algae like

1:10:11crazy.

1:10:12>> Yeah, yeah, still needs approval.

1:10:13>> algae like crazy.

1:10:14>> Yeah, so unfortunately that yeah, that's

1:10:17a tough one.

1:10:19>> Yeah, as far as the mitigation too

1:10:22I mean it's definitely a

1:10:24>> Okay.

1:10:25>> And I I I I saw what you saw with the

1:10:28site itself of there's a nice big green

1:10:31lawn and a great opportunity to plant

1:10:32some trees. But then I'm looking at from

1:10:35multiple perspectives of well, okay, so

1:10:37you put a plant here now this doesn't

1:10:39show the retaining wall but there's a

1:10:41retaining wall about right here. So, you

1:10:43plant a tree in the middle of the lawn.

1:10:44Well, now that you've got one you've got

1:10:45one tree all by its lonesome or two

1:10:48trees by its lonesome

1:10:50right in the front. Big glass windows in

1:10:52the front too. So, it's it's there's so

1:10:54much

1:10:55there's so many things to consider with

1:10:58the mitigation here. So, say we put two

1:11:00red maples up in the lawn right there.

1:11:02Well, are they going to get beat up by

1:11:03the wind cuz they're

1:11:05you know, isolated up there and then as

1:11:07they grow more mature are they a threat

1:11:09because you've got big glass windows

1:11:11right there or to the retaining wall.

1:11:13But yes, that's it's on the south side

1:11:15of it.

1:11:16It's a tough one for mitigation.

1:11:18>> Yeah.

1:11:19>> Well, the the pines

1:11:21um

1:11:23How is the canopy? Like um

1:11:25of the pine trees. Because it seems like

1:11:28from the from the images that there are

1:11:30several trees there.

1:11:31>> And then pines usually grow super tall

1:11:34and kind of like a little canopy

1:11:36>> Mhm.

1:11:36>> at the top. So, um

1:11:38>> about it a little bit. Um

1:11:39>> Yes, um

1:11:40>> Would it be okay if the arborist talked

1:11:42a little bit about the pines?

1:11:43>> Yeah, I would love that. I can put

1:11:45myself on mute and have Michael

1:11:48put himself on.

1:11:49>> This Google image has a little is

1:11:51different than the Nearmap, too. So,

1:11:53>> Yes, sir.

1:11:56Let's see if I can get the

1:11:59>> So, this is

1:11:59>> Can you see me now?

1:12:01>> Yep.

1:12:01>> Um

1:12:02>> No, cuz I'm clicked on

1:12:03>> [laughter]

1:12:03>> Michael, but yes, now I see you.

1:12:05>> Yeah, here we go.

1:12:06>> Michael.

1:12:08>> Michael, go

1:12:09>> Um

1:12:10So,

1:12:12with the pines,

1:12:15there's the one that's at the very like

1:12:18by the dock, um canopy is pretty much

1:12:23it's really towards the lake. There's no

1:12:26canopy behind it. So, the

1:12:30the pines have some canopy, but they're

1:12:33not like your full open grown in the

1:12:35woods kind of pines. Um

1:12:38Some of them have been slightly

1:12:39suppressed or they're suppressing other

1:12:42maybe

1:12:44more

1:12:47other species, but

1:12:49um

1:12:50the pines, especially on this property,

1:12:55again, the ones on the

1:12:58closest to the dock both have the

1:13:00majority of their limbs towards the

1:13:02water. So, there's really not much on

1:13:05the back side of those pines. Um the

1:13:08only one that has more of a full canopy

1:13:10is to the left side of the house.

1:13:20>> Nearmap's a little different cuz this is

1:13:22um

1:13:22>> Yeah.

1:13:23>> April, March and your map does their

1:13:25flyovers like April, May, which is

1:13:28uh March, April, which is good to kind

1:13:30of see the ground.

1:13:32But this

1:13:34other one

1:13:35is definitely more summer.

1:13:38>> So the other trees to stay and it's like

1:13:40the the the two pines

1:13:43on the right side and the other pine

1:13:47>> Excuse this one.

1:13:48>> How many pines were like slightly

1:13:50smaller that would be staying there

1:13:52after we if we took those pines out?

1:13:55Could you Was there a few that were like

1:13:57kind of just growing up behind them or

1:13:58were they basically

1:13:59>> Oh, yeah. There was There were a bunch

1:14:01of pines on the the right-hand side and

1:14:04the left-hand side that aren't coming

1:14:06out.

1:14:06>> And you don't know whose property

1:14:08they're on.

1:14:09>> Yeah, true. I'm just thinking that like

1:14:11you know what? I'm I'm not a fan of

1:14:13really, really tall pines.

1:14:14>> You don't like pines, period.

1:14:15>> You are a pine disliker.

1:14:17>> That's not true.

1:14:18>> Yes, it is true. You don't like

1:14:20>> I love pines. I I don't like

1:14:21>> Your logging Your logging background.

1:14:24That's not

1:14:24>> You go to the value of a tree by

1:14:26>> I'm not even a logger. I've always been

1:14:27an arborist.

1:14:29>> I would not Listen, so my point is is

1:14:31but but at the same time, I mean, it

1:14:32would I didn't really have a great

1:14:34chance to look at them, but if say we

1:14:35took the two pines out on the right side

1:14:37by the one by the dock and the one

1:14:39behind it.

1:14:39>> This is the dock side.

1:14:41>> It would open up It looks like it would

1:14:42open up some smaller ones

1:14:45to grow in their place.

1:14:46>> Mhm. For sure.

1:14:48>> But

1:14:49the

1:14:49>> Yeah.

1:14:50>> And what you do is you With that type of

1:14:52a policy, you lose control.

1:14:54>> Well, no, because they'd have to come

1:14:55back for the next I

1:14:57I'm a big fan of like What happens if a

1:14:59windstorm comes, lightning strikes, you

1:15:01know what happens?

1:15:01>> And when you take out a tree, you make

1:15:03the trees next to it vulnerable to the

1:15:05wind.

1:15:05>> I agree. We're looking at these, I feel

1:15:07like they're already kind of on the

1:15:08edge. The smaller ones might have a

1:15:10better chance of Well, let's

1:15:12>> Can we want to continue this and go go

1:15:14with the arborist and take a look at

1:15:16them?

1:15:17>> Can

1:15:18>> You want to do another site visit?

1:15:20>> Yeah.

1:15:25Went down there, we had no guidance the

1:15:27last time.

1:15:28Yeah, but I I mean, I don't want to make

1:15:30anybody happy.

1:15:33>> I mean, all all the all the trees were

1:15:34marked last time. I mean, for the

1:15:36Christmas is the health and vigor of the

1:15:38trees. Thank you very much.

1:15:39>> Yeah. Um

1:15:42>> All right, then vote. We can vote it.

1:15:44>> Like the one the pine closest to the

1:15:45house you could make maybe a good case

1:15:47for if the limbs were

1:15:49>> To get rid of I mean

1:15:51Yeah, you're right. I'm not a big huge

1:15:53fan of really tall pines. That's a fact.

1:15:55>> Yeah.

1:15:57I knew that when you you You know what

1:15:59it was? It was that guy that was

1:16:00blocking your shot.

1:16:01>> That embarrassed us all.

1:16:02>> It's true. Once I get through the shoot,

1:16:03I couldn't take it anymore. Sorry to to

1:16:05joke with you guys. Um

1:16:08Um talking with the arborist, is your

1:16:10opinion to remove all the trees?

1:16:13>> Um yes. So, the two especially on the

1:16:16right side, I don't know if you guys

1:16:17noticed when you like did the site

1:16:19visit. The root collar, the root flare,

1:16:23they're completely buried and there's

1:16:25construction damage. So, we don't

1:16:28normally see construction damage right

1:16:30away. Usually it's two to five years

1:16:33out, but it's significant.

1:16:36Um

1:16:38Just due to proximity of dock and house

1:16:41and

1:16:42not having to worry about it later.

1:16:45>> So, you're saying they

1:16:47they buried the roots, so now they have

1:16:49to remove the tree.

1:16:54>> I mean, it sounds yes, basically.

1:16:58Yeah, there was there was construction

1:17:00damage. I mean, you can do mitigation to

1:17:03save them, but that

1:17:07that involves air spading it, root

1:17:09collar excavation, building a tree well,

1:17:12um

1:17:14Same with like the driveway. Basically,

1:17:16any any trees that we have that are

1:17:20within So,

1:17:21construction damage, there's a rule of

1:17:23thumb in arboriculture. So, it's 1 ft

1:17:26per diameter inch. So, if you're doing

1:17:28construction anywhere,

1:17:31if you have 30-in tree to stay out of

1:17:33the critical root zone and not harm the

1:17:35tree, you've got to be at least 30 ft

1:17:37away.

1:17:39So,

1:17:40to some extent you can mitigate that. Um

1:17:43if you go below 9 in 9

1:17:46in just per diameter inch, you might as

1:17:49well remove the tree. So,

1:17:52it's hard because there's a lot of

1:17:53construction that occurs on properties

1:17:55like this.

1:17:56And

1:17:58it's choosing the trees that we try to

1:18:00save versus the trees that are going to

1:18:03cause big problems later and potentially

1:18:06have large impacts.

1:18:08Um especially just

1:18:11coming into a house.

1:18:13Um the red oak, as you can see I had

1:18:16highlighted, there'd been a previous

1:18:18failure

1:18:20um of a limb on it already.

1:18:22Which

1:18:24if a tree's failed once, it's going to

1:18:25fail again.

1:18:27Um especially due to proximity.

1:18:32>> Um

1:18:33do you want to go hold on this tonight?

1:18:35>> Yeah, it's not a public hearing.

1:18:38>> Uh so, for the restoration, so I think

1:18:41it's uh

1:18:42back to some

1:18:43>> Um

1:18:45there are some shrubs and and trees, but

1:18:48they don't There is um nothing on the

1:18:51right-hand side where the pines uh the

1:18:54two pines

1:18:55>> are expected to be removed is and I see

1:18:57that

1:18:59there is uh quite a dense

1:19:02um

1:19:03number of stems for for like trees and

1:19:05things like that. Is that an opportunity

1:19:07to plant some understory shrubs in those

1:19:09areas?

1:19:11>> Um

1:19:11>> That right now is kind of like it has

1:19:13the trees, but those doesn't have

1:19:15understory. Um so, as a way of

1:19:19mitigating the effect of the removal of

1:19:21the two pines with some understory

1:19:24canopy um

1:19:27something that grows nicely in

1:19:29>> I definitely

1:19:30um

1:19:31this my last conversation with the

1:19:33homeowner, he's definitely open to that.

1:19:36The only reason I didn't put that there

1:19:39on the site plan drawing that I had made

1:19:42was because I know that there are

1:19:46some stipulations in regards to

1:19:48planting in the same area that

1:19:50something's been recently removed,

1:19:52especially because we would not be doing

1:19:55any stump grinding, stump removal, or

1:19:57any root chasing, or any root

1:19:59excavation.

1:20:01Um so, by planting in that same area I

1:20:05it would have to compete with the pine

1:20:07tree roots that are still underground in

1:20:10there. Um so, I'm under the impression

1:20:12we need to wait a little while for those

1:20:14roots to slowly decompose before we can

1:20:17successfully plant something

1:20:19um to maintain a longer lifespan in that

1:20:22area.

1:20:24That's the only reason I didn't put

1:20:25anything in there, but I know Rocco

1:20:27would be open to that if that's what you

1:20:29wanted from us.

1:20:32>> I don't know anything about planting. I

1:20:34see like the multi-laurels in the in the

1:20:37forest that are like so close to the to

1:20:39the stems of trees and things like that.

1:20:41So, maybe

1:20:42>> All right, we've got to get off the dime

1:20:43here, guys. Okay, so um Brett, is there

1:20:46what it's I don't I don't believe that

1:20:48where this is a continuation

1:20:51he can vote on.

1:20:53>> It's not a public hearing.

1:20:54>> in it it's a request for a minor change

1:20:57>> Mhm.

1:20:59>> and it's it has a whole history.

1:21:02>> Well, it'd be any anytime we brought a

1:21:04minor change

1:21:06>> [snorts]

1:21:06>> So,

1:21:07Nick wasn't here when we issued the

1:21:08order of conditions. He can still vote

1:21:11on a minor change.

1:21:13It's like the same rules like a

1:21:14certificate of compliance.

1:21:16>> Okay.

1:21:17>> The adjudicatory rule is for a public

1:21:19hearing.

1:21:20>> All right.

1:21:21Is there anything that you would would

1:21:23make you be okay with them taking the

1:21:24pines out?

1:21:25>> What?

1:21:26>> Is there anything that would change sway

1:21:28you on the pines?

1:21:29>> Uh

1:21:31Sure.

1:21:31>> Nope.

1:21:32>> Okay.

1:21:33>> Do you want to Do you want to vote it in

1:21:34portions? Do you want to uh vote, you

1:21:37know, the trees within the 100-ft buffer

1:21:39and then the trees outside of the 100-ft

1:21:41buffer?

1:21:42>> I'd like to do those two trees

1:21:45that are as you come in on the side of

1:21:47the road right next to the driveway.

1:21:48>> with those, right?

1:21:49>> Yeah.

1:21:50>> Yeah, so do you Would that be Would that

1:21:52be easier of

1:21:53um

1:21:55just for cuz it's

1:21:57if we're It kind of seems that we're

1:21:58there's going to be some difference of

1:22:00opinion, so I don't know if you want to

1:22:01vote the minor changes two different

1:22:03votes of

1:22:04>> Let's do the

1:22:05>> Vote one being outside of the 100-ft

1:22:07buffer, which is the butt one side of

1:22:09the garage.

1:22:09>> the whole thing.

1:22:10>> Okay.

1:22:11>> It and it it gets the vote done.

1:22:13>> Okay.

1:22:14Um

1:22:15>> Okay.

1:22:16All right.

1:22:16>> Uh for for me like if it's it's possible

1:22:20um to add some

1:22:23prob- either like for like now or like

1:22:25just making a note like for the future

1:22:27like where the pines

1:22:29uh the two pines on the

1:22:32right-hand side I I don't know if that's

1:22:34the east like the east

1:22:37of the

1:22:39of the property, those two pines.

1:22:41>> You want to shut those down here?

1:22:42>> quite a a a a a

1:22:45dense

1:22:47trunk density

1:22:48uh in that area, but I see that there is

1:22:50no understory canopy that creates

1:22:52habitat, so that would be like a

1:22:54a good way of

1:22:56mitigating a loss.

1:22:59>> So, you're making a motion?

1:23:00>> Uh if you want, I can make a motion.

1:23:02>> Yeah.

1:23:03Please.

1:23:04Make a motion.

1:23:04>> back.

1:23:05Um Okay, so

1:23:09Sorry, I I lost it.

1:23:11>> your mitigation ratio in the motion?

1:23:15Are you proposing one to one or two to

1:23:16one?

1:23:17>> Uh for those two

1:23:19>> For Whatever Whatever your motion is

1:23:21going to be for for trees, just so I can

1:23:24make sure we're all on the same page.

1:23:25>> So, for the project at 328 the trail DEP

1:23:30file number 300-1182

1:23:35I make the motion to approve the minor

1:23:39changes

1:23:40uh with the addition of

1:23:44the inclusion of

1:23:46um

1:23:49They say 221 shrubs in the understory

1:23:52where the

1:23:55pines

1:23:57I think

1:23:58on the right the right hand side. I

1:23:59don't know if it's like it is. The right

1:24:00hand side of the house.

1:24:02Um

1:24:03And the

1:24:05Yes, and the other mitigation that the

1:24:07Asian Mansion.

1:24:10>> You have a second?

1:24:11>> Second.

1:24:13>> Got you.

1:24:19>> All right. All in favor.

1:24:21>> Central Manalapan in favor.

1:24:24>> Nick Garavaglia in favor.

1:24:26>> Bill Cooper in favor.

1:24:28>> Ed Gurian opposed.

1:24:31>> All right, so it passes.

1:24:34>> All right.

1:24:34>> All right, we're on.

1:24:35>> Thank you, Sam.

1:24:37>> You're welcome. This is the first time

1:24:38you've ever

1:24:39you've ever told me no.

1:24:42>> [laughter]

1:24:45>> You like me just know every time every

1:24:48time he tells you yes, in his head he's

1:24:50saying no, so.

1:24:52>> [laughter]

1:24:53>> Um

1:24:53>> That's it.

1:24:55Let's go on.

1:24:55>> to have to ask you to say no.

1:24:56>> Thank you very much.

1:24:57>> I need your approval.

1:24:59>> Uh 130 Brook 113 Brookfield Road um

1:25:04request for a

1:25:05certificate of compliance. The PP number

1:25:08300-1159.

1:25:11>> So, this project was for removal of some

1:25:14trees, widening of the driveway with

1:25:16some storm water improvements. The

1:25:18driveway's got a pretty steep slope to

1:25:20it. Um everything was done according to

1:25:22the plan. No signs of erosion. The

1:25:24plantings were done as they were

1:25:25proposed, and they're they've survived.

1:25:28So, recommendation is to issue the

1:25:30certificate of compliance with the

1:25:31perpetual conditions as noted.

1:25:33>> All right.

1:25:34>> Good.

1:25:35>> For the project at 113 Brookfield Road,

1:25:38the EPF number 31159,

1:25:40I make the motion

1:25:42to issue a certificate of compliance

1:25:44with the perpetual conditions 48-4-248.

1:25:49>> Second.

1:25:49>> Second.

1:25:51>> Any discussion? Seeing none, all in

1:25:52favor.

1:25:53>> Ms. Germany, in favor.

1:25:54>> Mr. Goodroe, in favor.

1:25:55>> Mr. Gravel, in favor.

1:25:58>> Great.

1:25:58>> Am I voting on this one?

1:26:00>> You can vote on that one, yes.

1:26:01>> Mr. Cooper, in favor.

1:26:04>> And then we are at 152 and 158 Main

1:26:07Street, request for a certificate of

1:26:09compliance, DEV file number 300-956.

1:26:14>> So, as discussed when the public hearing

1:26:16opened for 152 Main, the prior order of

1:26:19conditions has expired and needs to be

1:26:23closed out and I don't recommend that

1:26:25the commission issues any new permits

1:26:26without closing out the old ones.

1:26:29Um

1:26:30for the most part, we'll be if that

1:26:31project does move forward, we'll be

1:26:33putting in new conditions. However, I do

1:26:35recommend that perpetual condition

1:26:38number 54 would be remaining as that

1:26:40would still be relevant and that the

1:26:42commission make a motion to

1:26:45issue the order of conditions or issue

1:26:47the certificate of compliance.

1:26:51>> So, issue it but

1:26:53with 154 excluded.

1:26:55>> Issued with Issued with perpetual

1:26:57condition number 54.

1:26:58>> Okay.

1:26:59>> The other ones are all irrelevant cuz it

1:27:00was for work not done.

1:27:02>> Good.

1:27:03>> So, for the project at 52 and

1:27:05152 and 158 Main Street, DEP file number

1:27:10300-956,

1:27:12I make the motion to issue a certificate

1:27:14of compliance with the perpetual

1:27:16condition number 54.

1:27:18>> Second.

1:27:19>> Second.

1:27:20>> Discussion? Seeing none, all in favor.

1:27:22>> Ms. Germany, in favor.

1:27:24>> Mr. Goodroe, in favor.

1:27:25>> Mr. Gravel, in favor.

1:27:26>> Mr. Cooper, in favor.

1:27:29>> All right, we are now

1:27:32uh

1:27:33review and consideration

1:27:35on forested cutting plan 198 Bowdoin

1:27:38Road.

1:27:40Any information?

1:27:41>> Um so, we've got all the information

1:27:44that we need here. So, I mean, all three

1:27:46of these are really just going to be the

1:27:47same. Um Gil, since you're kind of new,

1:27:50we do forest cutting plans a little bit

1:27:51differently. This is something that

1:27:53typically forest cutting plans go

1:27:55straight to the state.

1:27:56>> Yep.

1:27:57>> State reviews them for multiple

1:27:59different aspects of it and then issues

1:28:01a permit. Those get sent to the town and

1:28:04we have 10 days from the day that's

1:28:06issued to review those and provide

1:28:09comment. It's not like a

1:28:11>> Okay.

1:28:11>> We approve we give a permit or anything

1:28:12like that. And in my review it's kind of

1:28:14just are resources areas being protected

1:28:17adequately or is there any activity

1:28:19that's part of this being proposed that

1:28:21might require

1:28:22>> Mhm.

1:28:22>> them to file something with us. So say

1:28:24they're putting in, you know, rather

1:28:26than just like a temporary wetland

1:28:27crossing, say they need to construct

1:28:29something to get over that because

1:28:31they're going to continue, that's

1:28:32something that would trigger an actual

1:28:33filing.

1:28:34>> Okay.

1:28:34>> Sturbridge is a little bit different

1:28:36with our processes because the back in

1:28:392021 the town voted to adopt a bylaw

1:28:42that requires that these get adopted by

1:28:44the select board. Mostly cuz we're

1:28:46looking at, you know, concerns to public

1:28:48health, public safety, cleanliness of

1:28:50our roadways, things like that too. So,

1:28:52you know, we still provide some just

1:28:54general comments, but

1:28:56nothing

1:28:58major, just kind of those general things

1:29:00cuz again, these are the state foresters

1:29:02that are also looking at these plans and

1:29:04then we kind of just kind of help DCR

1:29:08monitoring as well because they're

1:29:10>> Yep.

1:29:11>> a small smaller-ish office that is

1:29:13responsible for seeing all the towns in

1:29:16the state and they obviously don't get

1:29:18to go out to every site during these

1:29:20processes.

1:29:22So, I mean

1:29:24>> So, did you actually go out there?

1:29:25>> Yeah, so in kind of looking at we look

1:29:28at the resource maps and make sure

1:29:29everything was kind of identified on

1:29:31here.

1:29:32And we look at site history of activity

1:29:35forest cutting plans that are on here.

1:29:36So, like Breakneck Road especially,

1:29:37that's one that's been done a couple

1:29:39times. So, my

1:29:42You guys can do this all as one if you

1:29:44want, but my overall conditions are kind

1:29:47of just going to be the same because

1:29:48it's all pretty similar circumstances.

1:29:52198 Podunk doesn't have as many wetland

1:29:55resource areas in it as well.

1:29:57But general conditions just saying that

1:29:58it's going

1:30:00the work is being done according to the

1:30:01plan as it was approved, that they're

1:30:03notifying us before doing any activity,

1:30:06that the work is limited

1:30:08um

1:30:09and that they're using adequate erosion

1:30:11controls to protect those resource areas

1:30:14or if they're doing anything temporary,

1:30:15temporary timber matting, wetland

1:30:17crossings that those are coming out and

1:30:19kind of being reset when they're done.

1:30:24No relocating of any wetlands and or

1:30:26streams, that erosion and sediment

1:30:28controls are going if there's any

1:30:29changes to the plan that obviously has

1:30:31to go through DCR but also that we get

1:30:33notified of that as well.

1:30:35And any temporary stream crossings be

1:30:37installed and maintained in according to

1:30:39the plan and just best management

1:30:41practices.

1:30:43Any vernal pools or habitats that are

1:30:45specifically sensitive are going through

1:30:47their processes as well and

1:30:50um

1:30:51avoidance for any direct impact where

1:30:54there's invasive species trying to

1:30:56prevent the spread of invasive species

1:30:59by cleaning equipment. Stabilization

1:31:02of the site. Some sites have more

1:31:04topography changes than others where we

1:31:06might see like erosion and whatnot and

1:31:08then the ability to road.

1:31:09>> So it's like a checklist that you have

1:31:10to have there.

1:31:10>> Exactly.

1:31:12And then upon completion of the harvest

1:31:15that we be notified. That way I can kind

1:31:17of just file the permit.

1:31:20And that we have the right to do

1:31:23inspections as needed because that is an

1:31:26active

1:31:28not a construction site but it is an

1:31:29active work zone. That's something that

1:31:31I if I were to do an unannounced site

1:31:34inspection, I reach out because one, I

1:31:36want to be safe on site and I want them

1:31:39to know that I'm on site to be able to

1:31:41walk through.

1:31:42And these recommendations I just pass

1:31:43along to the select board as well. So

1:31:46that's up to you all if you want to do

1:31:48those individually or just

1:31:50>> Do all three at once.

1:31:52Selectman have approved.

1:31:57I have a motion.

1:31:58>> Okay, let me think this motion like the

1:32:00three together.

1:32:02So, for the forest cutting plan

1:32:06um

1:32:07Do we approve the review of the forest

1:32:10cutting plan? Is that the

1:32:13>> So, a recommended motion can just be

1:32:14that the

1:32:16you recommend the activity proceeds with

1:32:18the conditions as noted.

1:32:19>> Okay. So,

1:32:21for the forest cutting plan at 198

1:32:26Poland Road, 175 Arnold Road, and

1:32:30Brigner Road, I make the motion to

1:32:35I forgot the motion. I

1:32:38I make the recommendation

1:32:41to

1:32:42>> Approve [laughter] the conditions, yeah.

1:32:44>> Um cutting plan with the conditions that

1:32:47uh Lauren mentioned, and they are in the

1:32:50detail agenda. Sorry.

1:32:53>> [laughter]

1:32:55>> I hear you.

1:32:56>> I second.

1:32:58>> Any discussion? Seeing none, all in

1:33:00favor.

1:33:01>> Ben Sherman in favor.

1:33:02>> Ed Gannon in favor.

1:33:03>> Nick Gravel in favor.

1:33:04>> Al Cooper in favor.

1:33:08>> I made a motion that

1:33:10Lauren said that.

1:33:11>> All right.

1:33:13>> All right.

1:33:14>> Forest cutting plans.

1:33:16>> Good. We have

1:33:17>> Okay.

1:33:17>> Um

1:33:20Oh, do we have questions?

1:33:22Sorry, I didn't see someone was still

1:33:24on.

1:33:24>> Yeah. Chris.

1:33:26>> All right. Thank you. Thanks. That was

1:33:28the

1:33:29easiest meeting I've been to in a long

1:33:30time.

1:33:31>> Thank you.

1:33:33>> Yeah, we'll talk soon. Thanks again.

1:33:34>> Bye.

1:33:35>> Bye.

1:33:36>> Oh, was he for the forest cutting plan?

1:33:38>> I guess so, yeah.

1:33:39>> Oh, okay.

1:33:40>> Um

1:33:42David, the topic of the evening, trees.

1:33:44>> These trees, trees.

1:33:45>> Oh, yeah.

1:33:46>> Um so,

1:33:49you want me to kick it off, Ed?

1:33:53Tree removal policy.

1:33:54>> The Urbandale Conservation Commission

1:33:56tree removal policy.

1:33:58>> All right. So, this kind of came up in

1:34:00the spring

1:34:02um that it's just kind of a good oppor-

1:34:04you know, that it was kind of a

1:34:07needed item to do. This was last updated

1:34:09in 2022, but

1:34:11um

1:34:12you know, we've been

1:34:13getting really hands-on with the tree

1:34:16removal policy with a follow-up process,

1:34:19which, you know, is one of those things

1:34:21that every office struggles with with

1:34:23the you know, the simple follow-up.

1:34:24We've now established a great system in

1:34:26place in trying to get things through.

1:34:28So,

1:34:29you know, of course, we want to see kind

1:34:31of what you all think of the policy as

1:34:33it is now, what you recommend. My

1:34:36guidance is kind of going to be more of

1:34:38you know, regulatory and then also kind

1:34:41of from my my desk and experience, what

1:34:44I'm seeing, what I'm hearing, and the

1:34:46processes, too. So, one of the first

1:34:49things that I kind of did was look for

1:34:51how this current tree removal policy may

1:34:54have any conflicts from the bylaw, the

1:34:58wetland regulations, the Wetland

1:35:01Protection Act, and of course, just

1:35:03general um

1:35:06forestry practices and everything, too.

1:35:07So, some of my comments that are in here

1:35:09are just kind of referencing

1:35:11um what's in here and reinstating some

1:35:13things. So,

1:35:15within the policy as it is now,

1:35:19our bylaw

1:35:20defines what we call a significant tree,

1:35:23which is anything with a DBH of 2 in.

1:35:28And

1:35:30our bylaw and our regulations contradict

1:35:32each other a little bit because the

1:35:33bylaw says measured at 4 ft and the

1:35:36regulations say measured at 4 and 1/2

1:35:38ft, but we're not changing bylaws and

1:35:41regulations right now cuz that's

1:35:43a whole big step. But, the 2 in is

1:35:45consistent. So, really, if it's under 2

1:35:47in DBH, that's you know, not

1:35:49still considered vegetation, but not

1:35:51considered

1:35:52you know, a significant tree. So, I

1:35:55wanted to reinstate that in this policy

1:35:58just so it's making it a little bit

1:36:00easier for everyone to understand. Um

1:36:03one other thing is the policy as it was

1:36:05written now, you know, you kind of get

1:36:06into the purpose here

1:36:08um with the way that it was written of

1:36:10intended to prevent damage and all that.

1:36:13Makes sense to those of us that are kind

1:36:15of

1:36:16familiar with these things, but also to

1:36:18break it down to make it more simple

1:36:20because sometimes we've got companies

1:36:22like Robinson that are filling out these

1:36:24applications, other times it's just the

1:36:26homeowner. And if, you know, it's not a

1:36:28super tall tree, sometimes they're just

1:36:29taking it down themselves and whatnot.

1:36:32Um

1:36:33As the policy currently says, it's

1:36:36we might we may ask for an arborist

1:36:39report. So, there's situations where I

1:36:41go to a site and it is very obvious that

1:36:45the tree is bare and that it's dropping

1:36:47limbs and it may have already fallen on

1:36:50the shed or things like that. There's

1:36:52other times where it's not as evident

1:36:55that the tree might be impaired or at

1:36:56least to to my eyes, I'm not an

1:36:58arborist. So, um that's when we

1:37:01absolutely will need that professional

1:37:03opinion from a qualified professional

1:37:05that's just saying with their you know,

1:37:07their report and their analysis.

1:37:09Um

1:37:11which

1:37:13you know,

1:37:14from my point, you know, sometimes

1:37:16people kind of argue with me about it.

1:37:18Well, the trees drop branches. Healthy

1:37:20trees drop branches. We all know that.

1:37:22Um But, you know, it it is an expense on

1:37:25people, but if the tree is

1:37:27I can't see into you know, if you all go

1:37:30out there and you can't see that the

1:37:31tree looks unhealthy, there's been a

1:37:33couple instances where I can't make the

1:37:35call or I don't feel comfortable making

1:37:37the call and I have a whole commission

1:37:39come out and see it, you know, and make

1:37:42that assessment or we're looking at the

1:37:43arborist reports, too. So,

1:37:46um

1:37:47That was one thing I'll point out, but

1:37:49also with the purpose of this policy.

1:37:52So, from my notes, which

1:37:55you guys are seeing my comments on here

1:37:57for kind of the first time, but I kind

1:37:59of wanted to take out the whole

1:38:02on a healthy tree in here because the

1:38:04purpose of this policy is specifically

1:38:06just for hazards and dangerous trees. If

1:38:08you want to do vista pruning, if you

1:38:10want to cut down a perfectly healthy

1:38:12tree for XYZ reasons, you're filing an

1:38:15RDA or an NOI and you're doing public

1:38:18hearing and that whole process. Um I

1:38:20think adding having it in here as

1:38:22healthy tree one just kind of makes it

1:38:24confusing for applicants because it may

1:38:26give them that application that that

1:38:28thought of oh well I have a healthy

1:38:30tree, I can use this application. No.

1:38:32This is specifically for the those types

1:38:35of circumstances.

1:38:37Um

1:38:39the current definition that's reflected

1:38:40in the policy is compromised tree.

1:38:43Um

1:38:45Nick, you might be able to kind of

1:38:46attest to this a little bit more but

1:38:49>> It's a pine tree.

1:38:51>> More terminology that I see is a

1:38:54definition of hazardous tree, not

1:38:57compromised tree. So I kind of want to

1:38:59replace that definition

1:39:01um and then kind of differentiate

1:39:03between healthy versus non-hazardous.

1:39:07Um also kind of

1:39:09adding in the emergency authorization.

1:39:13Um there's also not currently an

1:39:14applicability section in here. So again

1:39:17reinstating that the policy specifically

1:39:19applies to those determined by a

1:39:21qualified professional to be an

1:39:23unacceptable risk to persons or

1:39:25property.

1:39:26And that's you know you guys have kind

1:39:28of seen your fair share of our brush

1:39:30reports and that's kind of how they're

1:39:32going brought going is by risk.

1:39:34>> That's a point I'd like to make.

1:39:35>> Mhm.

1:39:35>> Um

1:39:37I

1:39:38you know, what you've got in here is

1:39:39great as far as I'm concerned to it.

1:39:42But there are some issues. Oh, we just

1:39:44went through it tonight.

1:39:45>> Mhm.

1:39:46>> Um certified arborist, okay? Um

1:39:51if

1:39:52somebody wants to look at a tree and it

1:39:55doesn't look like it's a problem.

1:39:56>> Mhm.

1:39:58>> Um

1:39:59then they bring us

1:40:01you know, the arborist that's doing the

1:40:04cutting and they say it's

1:40:06dead

1:40:07>> Mhm. or dying.

1:40:09We need a certified arborist at that

1:40:11point. We should have a um

1:40:15We should have like five of them that we

1:40:17deal with if we can. I know that that's

1:40:19not not easy, but

1:40:21>> Well, so we we check the website for who

1:40:23actually has the certifications.

1:40:25>> Yeah.

1:40:26Yeah, and so that we should we should

1:40:28move it around

1:40:30because if you have someone like uh

1:40:34working for somebody doing work

1:40:36taking trees, they're going to do just

1:40:37what you want. They're going to say just

1:40:40what you want them to say. I'm not I'm

1:40:41not being cynical.

1:40:43>> of them I mean I've had a lot of

1:40:44discussions

1:40:45>> What?

1:40:45>> lately with my arborist like friends and

1:40:47stuff.

1:40:48>> Yeah.

1:40:48>> I think

1:40:50I think even like with um

1:40:52Michael that was here tonight, and if

1:40:54you look through his report, he's not

1:40:56he's not

1:40:57overstate he's not trying it didn't

1:41:00You know what I'm trying to say? He

1:41:01wasn't and the clients that he was

1:41:02talking to I don't know if we can I

1:41:03don't want to I guess talk about if I'm

1:41:05not supposed to.

1:41:05>> Don't do it for me specific.

1:41:07>> What's that? Yeah, but in general like

1:41:08you know, discussions like in that case

1:41:11it was a little easier with the two by

1:41:13the water cuz there was some

1:41:14construction jam. Where you know, like

1:41:16in the cases where the like there has

1:41:17been construction before.

1:41:20I did see you put track in and I would

1:41:21say if we're going to do anything um

1:41:24it's one thing to be a

1:41:25uh certified arborist or an ISA

1:41:27arborist, but track is really becoming

1:41:29like the the standard for people for

1:41:32tree risk assessment. So, I think like

1:41:34making sure that someone has a track

1:41:36qualification on top of it. It's not

1:41:38really a hard it's a two or three day

1:41:39course, but I mean you already have to

1:41:41be an arborist to have it and that's

1:41:42just really the standard

1:41:44you know, throughout the country right

1:41:45now to have that.

1:41:46>> The other point is the the the the

1:41:50boring system.

1:41:51>> Sure. Yep.

1:41:52>> Um we we have to use that. We have to

1:41:55get people to use that.

1:41:57>> Well, that's a that's a and that that's

1:41:59fine. There's only a few people and like

1:42:01um the arborist tonight might have had

1:42:03it. Um that's like a like we were

1:42:04talking.

1:42:05>> Yeah.

1:42:05>> Like it's a quite a large one. I mean,

1:42:07there's probably

1:42:09I don't know. I'm not going to say what

1:42:10it is. Probably only, you know, a

1:42:11handful of people in Westchester County

1:42:13that actually have one. So, it makes

1:42:13sense to

1:42:15>> Sure.

1:42:16push toward that. Particularly if it's a

1:42:19if it's a magnificent tree and they want

1:42:21to cut it down.

1:42:22>> There's another one, too. It's called

1:42:23tomography where they they're using um

1:42:26sensors around the whole entire buttress

1:42:27of the tree, and they're actually

1:42:29tapping it, and it's actually making a

1:42:31full um

1:42:34like a basic like a 2D report of what's

1:42:36going on and anomalies within the tree,

1:42:38which is really intriguing. You know, so

1:42:40there's other things that could be going

1:42:41on. I mean, the

1:42:43the um

1:42:44resistometer or whatever he was using,

1:42:46there's two different kinds.

1:42:48That's a really good indicator, too. And

1:42:49it but it also depends on where they're

1:42:51drilling into the tree, and that's why

1:42:53it's kind of important to make sure

1:42:54>> that's not like so it's not

1:42:57like a common technology that every

1:42:58arborist is going to have.

1:42:59>> that

1:43:00necessarily everybody has. He he wrote

1:43:02it into his report. Um there was another

1:43:05one that came out earlier this year.

1:43:07Um his name's he's a really talented

1:43:09guy. He was like a

1:43:11he was an advisor when I was going to

1:43:12school. That's out of like um

1:43:14I can't think of his name right off top

1:43:16of my head, but we can talk about him

1:43:17later. And he does a pretty in-depth

1:43:18one, and that would like

1:43:20he's probably one of the better guys

1:43:22around. You know, um

1:43:23but like Ed's yeah, I'd say there's

1:43:25there's not too many guys that have

1:43:26those, so

1:43:27>> And do they charge extra to do that test

1:43:29to the to their client?

1:43:30>> I mean, they should. I mean, that's part

1:43:31of that's but that's part of

1:43:33>> How much we don't know. I mean, you

1:43:34know.

1:43:34>> Yeah, I mean, it could go all over the

1:43:35place. I mean, I could

1:43:36>> I mean, I have general ideas of the

1:43:37reports, but like to Ed's point, too,

1:43:40it's there's kind of a

1:43:43an underlying conflict when the arborist

1:43:46works for the tree removal company

1:43:49versus an independent arborist like the

1:43:51woman that was here earlier for that

1:43:53project.

1:43:54>> Yeah.

1:43:54>> I mean, I didn't go super diving, but

1:43:58you know, independent arborist not

1:44:00working for a tree removal company or,

1:44:03you know, Joe Kowalski that doesn't work

1:44:05for a tree removal company. But I think

1:44:07that I you know, to Ed's point, too,

1:44:09when the arborist works for the tree

1:44:11removal company, it's kind of hard

1:44:15to

1:44:17>> Yeah.

1:44:17>> not suspect that there might be some

1:44:20type of other

1:44:21>> That's the thing, if you could you could

1:44:22pull off They haven't And I'm not to

1:44:24interrupt you, but they haven't And that

1:44:25was the thing I maybe talked a little

1:44:27Our critique last time was they're not

1:44:29showing the readouts

1:44:32on the on the reports. I mean, we could

1:44:35If we really wanted to get into depth,

1:44:36we could say we really want to see the

1:44:37readout from it. Not that everybody can

1:44:39read it, but I mean, it takes You take

1:44:41like a 5-minute tutorial that you could

1:44:42do and it would explain how it's working

1:44:44cuz it shows the tree rings and it shows

1:44:46how, you know, where there would be

1:44:47decay in the tree. And even if there is

1:44:49decay in the tree, it doesn't

1:44:50necessarily mean

1:44:52that it's, you know, the tree's going

1:44:53down. You know what I mean by any means

1:44:54at all.

1:44:54>> There's a tree on Paradise

1:44:57um in the front yard of one of the new

1:44:59houses

1:45:00that is huge.

1:45:02It uh you You must have seen it. It's

1:45:04It's

1:45:05base is like about that big.

1:45:07>> Mhm.

1:45:08>> And they have beaten the out of it,

1:45:10really.

1:45:11>> That's

1:45:11>> It's got scars all over it.

1:45:13>> Oh, jeez.

1:45:14>> Fresh ones, you know.

1:45:16They're just getting to a point where

1:45:17they're going to bring it to us.

1:45:19>> Well, doesn't So, do we have any kind of

1:45:21Like, can we

1:45:22you know, the arborist made a good point

1:45:24and I can't remember off the top of my

1:45:25head what he was saying. I think it's

1:45:26um for the inches in diameter, how far

1:45:29out to go from the tree. Like

1:45:31I mean, do we have any I mean, we've

1:45:33probably done it in other border

1:45:34conditions before. Have we done any kind

1:45:36of tree preservation? We have, right? I

1:45:38would assume.

1:45:39>> So,

1:45:41um

1:45:42when we were out on Shore Road the other

1:45:44day looking at the patio that's on this

1:45:46project and the But right down the way

1:45:48is that raisin rees build. He had one

1:45:50tree on his property and we it, you

1:45:54know,

1:45:55he brought it up today of the proper

1:45:57tree protection. And

1:45:59with sites like that

1:46:02you can't get that proper distance.

1:46:05Um or

1:46:07another raisin rees build that was done

1:46:09on the trail where we kind of went back

1:46:10and forth with trees, you can't get that

1:46:12proper that's that distance that you

1:46:14necessarily need because those lots are

1:46:17small, but for like projects like that,

1:46:20especially when we're looking at things

1:46:21and we're trying to try and put like the

1:46:22orange snow fence and things like that,

1:46:24too. That's in the That's in the

1:46:25conditions. And that is one thing that

1:46:28more recently, in the last year or so,

1:46:31that we've harped on a lot more is tree

1:46:34protection within an order of conditions

1:46:37because we're just seeing

1:46:41I don't want to say it's negligence

1:46:42because half these construction that

1:46:44like they're not thinking about it.

1:46:46They're just seeing, "Hey, there's a

1:46:47clear path. I got to get my equipment

1:46:49from here to there." And they're just

1:46:50not They're not thinking about it in

1:46:52that way because they're They're not

1:46:54in the tree protection business. They're

1:46:56in the building windows, pouring

1:46:58concrete, whatever their business is.

1:46:59So, in the last year or so, we've

1:47:01definitely gotten more intense with the

1:47:04order of conditions for some of those

1:47:06sites and trying to do that pre-tree

1:47:09protection. It's tough with small with

1:47:11small sites.

1:47:13>> It is, yeah.

1:47:13>> Um

1:47:14>> Yeah. Also, like what comprises like

1:47:17that of activity that

1:47:19a tree within that Like how big this is.

1:47:21>> Yeah, it took like it had to be

1:47:23>> Stockpiling on the root systems and, you

1:47:25know,

1:47:26>> Could we go like

1:47:28Could you like It's almost like when you

1:47:29would do like um

1:47:30like a logger having mats to like make

1:47:32it over wet streams and stuff. You know,

1:47:34could you

1:47:35if there's going to be any kind of

1:47:36machinery or anything else that have a

1:47:38compaction system, you know, like a

1:47:39matting system or something of

1:47:42I can't think of what you would call it

1:47:43per se. They have poly mats.

1:47:44>> temporary matting, too. Um another part

1:47:46for activity, another part of it, too,

1:47:49and this is the part that's hard for us

1:47:51to manage is, you know, we go out, we do

1:47:54the pre-activity meeting, and we look at

1:47:56the erosion controls and tree

1:47:57protection, and we talk about that Talk

1:47:59to them and say, "All right, where are

1:48:00you stockpiling? Where are you doing

1:48:02this? Where are you doing that?" I can

1:48:03have all that conversation, and they can

1:48:05tell me everything that I want to hear,

1:48:07but unless I happen to be in the area or

1:48:11get a complaint, you know, we don't have

1:48:14as much time to just kind of go stop by

1:48:16every open permit.

1:48:18There's certain ones like if it's if we

1:48:20get torrential downpour, I have a list.

1:48:22I have like a list of sites that I'm

1:48:23like, all right, it's pouring. I'm going

1:48:25to go take a drive-by this area, this

1:48:28area cuz I just want to see kind of

1:48:29what's going on, if sites are washing

1:48:31out.

1:48:32Um

1:48:33but that's that's the tough end of it,

1:48:35too. But for these policies like

1:48:38specifically with the tree removal, too,

1:48:41you know, that's

1:48:43We also have mitigation

1:48:45um

1:48:46standards in the order of conditions.

1:48:47And that's another thing kind of in more

1:48:48in the last year that I've put any tree

1:48:50that's meant to be saved, if it dies

1:48:53within 2 years of you finishing your

1:48:55activity, you're required to do

1:48:57mitigation for that tree.

1:48:58>> Interesting.

1:48:59>> So,

1:49:00um

1:49:01you know, that's not something that I I

1:49:04don't think that I'd worked into that

1:49:05order of conditions cuz this that one

1:49:06was 2 years ago. But, you know, newer

1:49:09ones, things like that that if there's

1:49:10trees that are being protected, and

1:49:14even trees that aren't being touched,

1:49:15areas that aren't being touched, if a

1:49:16tree that was supposed to stay or wasn't

1:49:18supposed to be touched dies in 2 years,

1:49:20you're responsible for replacing that.

1:49:22>> I'll put on a good luck in getting

1:49:24anything out of that.

1:49:25>> No, I know. I know, but it's

1:49:27but it is something that say

1:49:30Well, yeah, but I mean if if that had

1:49:32been in say in this specific order of

1:49:34conditions, that you know, the project

1:49:35that we looked at tonight for the tree

1:49:36removal,

1:49:37if that had been in that, and then he

1:49:39comes to us with this tree removal that

1:49:41it's well, your activities what damaged

1:49:43that tree, so you're absolutely doing

1:49:45two to one mitigation.

1:49:47Yep.

1:49:47>> No, that's like that's you could

1:49:48definitely see that. That's halfway.

1:49:50>> That's attitudinal.

1:49:51>> Yeah.

1:49:52>> Um like so, and I kind of made a

1:49:54statement of like the

1:49:56like in [clears throat] a sense of like

1:49:57say we're dealing with this kind of

1:49:58situation again,

1:49:59there's a couple pines or say some trees

1:50:01down by the water.

1:50:02You know, you look at the understory and

1:50:04you're like, okay, so that's part of

1:50:05our, you know, plan going forward is

1:50:07like, okay, this will help some of the

1:50:09trees that go, but if they damage like

1:50:10say the tops of the pines next to them

1:50:13on the way out and stuff like, is there

1:50:15anything

1:50:16like how do we I guess we can't do

1:50:18anything about it. I mean it's just a

1:50:19mistake by the tree company or whoever's

1:50:21on the saw, right? But like

1:50:23I mean that's the only thing. It's like,

1:50:25you know, in the end I thought about it

1:50:26after. It's like if something did happen

1:50:27to them or like

1:50:29you know, they chop them on the way out

1:50:31because they broke a top and it's, you

1:50:32know, it's only a small tree. I mean I

1:50:34guess there's really nothing and I don't

1:50:35want to run around slapping people on

1:50:37the wrist, I guess, but

1:50:38>> But I mean at least for this we can kind

1:50:39of look at like when they're coming

1:50:40before us and some of that might have

1:50:42led to it or what's going in. Um

1:50:44there's also a lot going on

1:50:47right now with um so insurance

1:50:49companies, this is a really big thing

1:50:51right now that insurance companies are

1:50:53doing drone imagery and GIS imagery

1:50:57and they are sending letters to

1:51:00homeowners saying

1:51:03this tree looks like it's covering over

1:51:04your house.

1:51:05>> Yeah.

1:51:05>> You have to remove it or we're canceling

1:51:07your policy.

1:51:09Now I have spent so much time with

1:51:11homeowners that I've gone to their house

1:51:14and I've looked at the tree, we've

1:51:16looked at the GIS images and we're like,

1:51:18it's not even over the house.

1:51:19>> Yeah.

1:51:20>> It's that's the like they're you're

1:51:21they're looking at a shadow. They're

1:51:22looking at a shrub. They don't know what

1:51:24they're looking at. They're not going

1:51:25there. But

1:51:27homeo- I have one on Fishkill. Their

1:51:29homeowner insurance just got canceled

1:51:31because and it's a elderly woman in a

1:51:34fixed income. What do we do in that

1:51:35situation? It's

1:51:36>> That's the thing we I just actually sat

1:51:38in a in a seminar with with um insurance

1:51:41companies talking about where like, you

1:51:42know, they talking to the arborists like

1:51:44you have to remember an insurance

1:51:45company's all numbers, right? And it's a

1:51:46scale like you know, that's why that's

1:51:48how they're able to do anything and they

1:51:49you know, go that's the problem in the

1:51:51end. They don't care about the species.

1:51:52They don't care about anything. It's

1:51:53it's what they they what does the

1:51:55>> Yep.

1:51:55>> you know, how are they

1:51:56>> I'm waiting to get that letter from my

1:51:57insurance company for a tree that I

1:51:59don't want to take down.

1:52:00>> a problem we're going to run into going

1:52:01forward and I'm and I'm not really sure

1:52:04how we

1:52:05>> I don't Yeah, I don't even know if you

1:52:06guys have guidance on how I deal with

1:52:08those.

1:52:08>> to definitely handle it when it comes. I

1:52:09guess it's just an opportunity. I mean I

1:52:10don't know what to tell you.

1:52:11>> and I'm getting them all the time and

1:52:14um or we have them where which

1:52:17this one kind of

1:52:19we've had some issues in the past. So,

1:52:21if someone comes to me with a request

1:52:25for tree removal and I go and say, "No,

1:52:28that that tree looks fine." I need an

1:52:31arborist report.

1:52:32>> Sure.

1:52:32>> And

1:52:34you know, they refuse the arborist

1:52:35report, obviously that automatically

1:52:37gets denied or I escalate it to you guys

1:52:40and you guys deny it. Um or they'll

1:52:43provide an arborist report that I've had

1:52:46ones where the arborist is kind of like,

1:52:49"It's not really It It's It's okay."

1:52:53Then we've got homeowner that says,

1:52:55"Well, if it falls, you guys declined it

1:52:58you know, denied it. So, if it falls and

1:53:00does damage, we're going to sue you."

1:53:01And that's something Robin and I have

1:53:02kind of worked with town council to be

1:53:04like,

1:53:05"What, you know, stance do they kind of

1:53:07have here?" Which really is only in the

1:53:09cases of like if they have an arborist

1:53:10report that says, "Yes, this is a

1:53:12high-risk tree that we could potentially

1:53:15face a liability." But

1:53:19in some of these instances, it doesn't.

1:53:21Um Another thing that I would really

1:53:25like to kind of

1:53:26>> for something like that?

1:53:27>> What's that?

1:53:27>> Are we insured for something like that?

1:53:31>> No, not if it's on somebody else's

1:53:33property.

1:53:34>> The insurance wants us to correct it.

1:53:36>> Yeah.

1:53:36>> Exactly. They don't want

1:53:37>> Um but that's one thing like if if

1:53:39someone calls me and says, "Hey, my

1:53:41neighbor has a tree that I'm really

1:53:43worried about it doing damage on my

1:53:45property." Well, I can't authorize them

1:53:47to remove it because it's on someone

1:53:49else's property. So, what I advise them

1:53:51to do is to get an opinion on the tree

1:53:55and to send that opinion via certified

1:53:57mail to the neighbor

1:53:59alerting them of the tree. So, if

1:54:01something does happen, they've notified

1:54:03them and then there's kind of some

1:54:04chance like I can't

1:54:06tell you to do that. I can just simply

1:54:07guide you. But um one thing that I

1:54:10really kind of want to touch on in here

1:54:12is

1:54:13under on page three uh section four of,

1:54:17you know, when we're requiring things.

1:54:21So, currently as it stands

1:54:24for removal of no more than five trees

1:54:29within the buffer zone. So, six or more

1:54:32is an RDA.

1:54:35Um

1:54:38in my opinion, I think that we need a

1:54:42little flexibility

1:54:44to that

1:54:46because of what we're seeing in some

1:54:49instances with the environmental impacts

1:54:51or, you know, the moths and

1:54:56um you know, ones that are just very,

1:54:57very evident that they might have a

1:54:59whole cluster or it's a very large site.

1:55:02>> Sure.

1:55:02>> And six trees is a lot. And an RRDA

1:55:07process is a better notification, public

1:55:09hearing, legal ad. So, it's a slower

1:55:14process for the applicant and it's

1:55:17adding an expense. So, I kind of just

1:55:20kind of want to look at that a little of

1:55:22maybe

1:55:25you know, where we can kind of adjust

1:55:26some things. There's also

1:55:29um a proposed amendment to the Wetland

1:55:30Protection Act right now that's three

1:55:33trees or more that are impacted by

1:55:37invasive species or um disease that they

1:55:40can be uh removed as a minor activity.

1:55:43It's not approved in the Wetland

1:55:44Protection Act, but it's in one of those

1:55:46draft revisions right now, too. So,

1:55:48three it's going to be

1:55:49minor activity under the WPA, but um

1:55:53>> What's an invasive species that would

1:55:54trigger that?

1:55:55>> Tree of heaven.

1:55:56>> Okay.

1:55:57>> It's a good example.

1:55:59Um so, I kind of want to just revisit

1:56:00that, too, of just kind of like that

1:56:02threshold. And also, are we counting a

1:56:05standing snag as

1:56:07tree number six?

1:56:09Standing snags have a great benefit to

1:56:12the environment. You know, the crows and

1:56:15other bird species love them, insects

1:56:17love them. But obviously, sometimes

1:56:19they're they're very evident safety

1:56:21risks. So, if they have five trees that

1:56:23are clearly compromised and being

1:56:24degraded from, you know,

1:56:27like hemlocks that are kind of all just

1:56:28being wiped out. You have five hemlocks

1:56:30that are clearly affected and then a

1:56:31standing snag. So,

1:56:34I want to kind of

1:56:37I want you guys to kind of think of

1:56:40how we can kind of adjust those of maybe

1:56:42if it's five or more, it's not

1:56:46that kind of goes beyond me on certain

1:56:48circumstances that no matter what it

1:56:50comes before the commission, but maybe

1:56:51an RDA might be

1:56:53a little much depending cuz that also

1:56:55doesn't really specify

1:56:57too much in the

1:56:59buffer. So, if it's

1:57:01>> RDA if it comes in front of us?

1:57:03>> Yeah.

1:57:04>> We do. Okay.

1:57:05>> If it's Well, if it's um

1:57:07if it's six trees,

1:57:08>> We definitely do that.

1:57:09>> it's RDA.

1:57:10But, say you have a

1:57:14you know,

1:57:1510-acre site. Say that the trees are at

1:57:1950 One's at 50 ft and then you've got

1:57:22three at 98 ft and two at 120.

1:57:26It's kind of like it's

1:57:28is that is that process efficient

1:57:31for the objective of this policy, which

1:57:34again is just hazardous trees, vista

1:57:36pruning, and I don't like that tree, or

1:57:40construction process. That's not covered

1:57:42by this.

1:57:44Um

1:57:45So, I'm not asking for kind of

1:57:47decision right now. It's kind of just

1:57:49I'm I'm bringing this today of just kind

1:57:51of can we start thinking of some of

1:57:52these things and how we're addressing

1:57:54them because

1:57:55if it is a dangerous or hazardous tree,

1:58:00obviously, we want to help these

1:58:02homeowners try and be most efficient in

1:58:04getting it out. If it's questionable of

1:58:07its condition, we want to make sure that

1:58:09the policy is very clear of what we

1:58:11expect from them and when. When you

1:58:14need, you know, a certified arborist

1:58:16report or, you know, whatnot to get

1:58:18those approvals.

1:58:20Um and then

1:58:23>> How often do you go out to get called to

1:58:25these type of situations?

1:58:27>> Depends on the time of year.

1:58:28>> Okay. Um I'm anticipating an influx

1:58:31around now cuz this is kind of that time

1:58:33of I have two panic seasons. People

1:58:36panic at the end of spring because

1:58:38they're like, "Oh yeah, I forgot. I want

1:58:40to do this really big project that I

1:58:42didn't apply for any permits for, but I

1:58:44want to start it in June." Then I've got

1:58:47panic season number two, which is

1:58:49winter's coming, ice is coming, I need

1:58:51to do all these things before branches

1:58:53fall and ground freezes. So, I'm kind of

1:58:57starting to get into number two.

1:59:00>> So, you got like multiple per week

1:59:01during the panic season.

1:59:02>> Sometimes I I mean Lori did

1:59:05three or four inspections the other day.

1:59:07>> In one day?

1:59:07>> Yeah.

1:59:08>> Okay.

1:59:08>> Um

1:59:10Another thing, so I added a section in

1:59:12here about invasive species and

1:59:14ecological threats. This is something

1:59:16that um Tony our tree warden and Heather

1:59:18our DPW director brought to my attention

1:59:19because obviously we're seeing, you

1:59:22know, the spotted lantern flies on a

1:59:25very invasive tree, which you know, if

1:59:27you're reading to just cutting the tree

1:59:29of heaven is not the best method for

1:59:31removal. However,

1:59:33I I think that when there is a situation

1:59:36where there is a heavy infestation of

1:59:38spotted lantern flies, that we just want

1:59:40that out of there as fast as possible.

1:59:42>> What did they do?

1:59:44>> The spotted lantern flies?

1:59:45>> Yeah.

1:59:45>> Um

1:59:46>> What are you talking about?

1:59:48>> What did they do to the tree or what

1:59:50does the tree do?

1:59:51>> What did they do? Did they take it out?

1:59:53Did they get them?

1:59:55Did they kill the spotted lantern flies?

1:59:56>> Oh, the one um on Main Street?

1:59:58>> Yeah.

1:59:59>> No, just got the state just documented

2:00:00it.

2:00:01I think they I

2:00:02>> Just documented?

2:00:03>> Yeah, they added it to the record.

2:00:05Yeah, they're still studying and

2:00:07everything, too, cuz I asked if, you

2:00:09know,

2:00:10>> They're everywhere. It's it's insane.

2:00:12>> I walked out of the Fish and Wildlife

2:00:14headquarters the other day and there was

2:00:16a dead one right in the middle of the

2:00:17sidewalk and I watched like five people

2:00:19step on it just to like be sure that

2:00:21it's dead. But that's kind of things

2:00:22like I think that if someone calls and

2:00:24says, "Hey, I've got a tree of heaven,

2:00:26it's infested with spotted lantern

2:00:28lantern flies."

2:00:29Whether it's an arborist, whether it's

2:00:31the tree warden, whether it's me, if

2:00:33someone can go out there someone

2:00:34qualified enough to just confirm yes,

2:00:36that is what it is, I say we just get it

2:00:38out of there.

2:00:39>> I will say that even if it's not

2:00:41infested because that we need a tree

2:00:43removed.

2:00:43>> Absolutely, but I don't want people to

2:00:45get carried away with that of oh, I have

2:00:49Japanese red maples and I have burning

2:00:52bush and so I try I

2:00:55look at how I have this worded because I

2:00:57want it to be general enough that we

2:01:00don't have to make it specific for

2:01:04spongy moths,

2:01:05which, you know, we dealt with those and

2:01:08now we're on to spotted lantern flies

2:01:10and then when spotted lantern flies are

2:01:11done, it's going to be something else.

2:01:13So, I didn't want to get so specific in

2:01:15what that species was because we know

2:01:18it's we're going to be constantly

2:01:19changing that. But, some type of

2:01:21provision there that's like hey, it's

2:01:23bad. We need you to get it out of there.

2:01:24If you're willing to pay like get it

2:01:26out, let's help you get it out. Um also

2:01:29another big section I really want to

2:01:31look at is the mitigation requirements.

2:01:35Um when we're going through these with

2:01:37people, there's so many factors to

2:01:38consider you know, what's there? What's

2:01:40the root systems? How much lawn do you

2:01:42have? How much trees do you have? How

2:01:43much property you have? Where are the

2:01:44resources?

2:01:46Um and obviously we try to get trees

2:01:48where we can and try to get some

2:01:49biodiversity, too.

2:01:51Um

2:01:53but we're also seeing a little bit more

2:01:55of people that are saying well,

2:01:58I'm already spending five grand to get

2:02:00these trees removed. Now you want me to

2:02:02do mitigation at 1.5 inch DBH and I need

2:02:06to pay these in. So, we've had people

2:02:07that have like fixed incomes and things

2:02:10like that and

2:02:12I, you know, I think that it's

2:02:14appropriate to have a formal waiver in

2:02:16place that someone actually can have,

2:02:19you know, come before the commission and

2:02:21say

2:02:22I

2:02:23don't want to do the mitigation because

2:02:25of XYZ and they basically plead their

2:02:26case to you all directly

2:02:29and then oh, did my computer just die?

2:02:32And then from there you all can kind of

2:02:34make that decision of yes we agree no we

2:02:37don't agree but waivers in writing. I'm

2:02:41going to go grab my computer charger

2:02:42really quick but

2:02:44I'm going to grab my charger really

2:02:45quick but

2:02:48Just having that in writing for when

2:02:50they're asking for that type of relief

2:02:52versus like well I don't know yes no and

2:02:57puts us in this situation.

2:03:15Um

2:03:17But I think when those types of relief

2:03:19come before us come before the

2:03:21commission

2:03:23but they have to submit it in writing

2:03:25and I can put together just a form of

2:03:28requesting mitigation relief because XYZ

2:03:32that comes to a public

2:03:34to a public meeting

2:03:36where you can review and maybe they

2:03:38don't need to be here.

2:03:40Um

2:03:41I was on a call today with some

2:03:46It was a call with different

2:03:47conservation agents and one brought up

2:03:50he's been a conservation agent for 25

2:03:53years and

2:03:55you'll

2:03:56get some comfortable sometimes when they

2:03:59have like specific violations that are

2:04:01listed and someone's you know name and

2:04:04everything is right there for something

2:04:06really really simple so like the waivers

2:04:08too that could be a sensitive subject if

2:04:11someone is saying

2:04:13um

2:04:13you know I

2:04:15can't afford to plant these trees.

2:04:17>> Sure.

2:04:18>> That could be really uncomfortable for

2:04:20some people so I don't really think it's

2:04:21necessarily that they need to come to

2:04:23that meeting but just having it in

2:04:25writing and you know we can put it on

2:04:27the agenda just as request for a waiver.

2:04:31Um

2:04:32>> How do we know if they say it?

2:04:34>> I know.

2:04:34>> [clears throat]

2:04:35>> Well some people might be comfortable

2:04:36with it, some people might not.

2:04:39Um

2:04:40But those

2:04:42Those are kind of some big things we've

2:04:45You know, like I said, with with Lori's

2:04:46help in the last, you know, year plus,

2:04:49we've really gotten a hands-on with the

2:04:51follow-up.

2:04:53And you know, that's something that I

2:04:55struggled with in my previous position

2:04:57and coming in here of, "All right, we

2:04:59issued all these tree removals, we

2:05:00require mitigation,

2:05:02then what?"

2:05:03>> Yeah.

2:05:04>> Um

2:05:05But now we've got like a nice little

2:05:06flow in place and I hope that the next

2:05:08person that comes in will kind of be

2:05:10able to

2:05:12we'll just be able to keep that kind of

2:05:14going, but

2:05:15>> They ever wreck open for it yet?

2:05:16>> What's that?

2:05:17>> They ever wreck open for that yet?

2:05:19>> Yeah. For the position? Yeah.

2:05:22>> Yeah, we've got a lot of people. Um

2:05:26But yeah.

2:05:27>> Most [clears throat] of this is

2:05:28you're focusing on

2:05:31customer service.

2:05:34Um we need to

2:05:37protect the lake.

2:05:38>> Absolutely.

2:05:40So

2:05:40>> Everywhere we soften

2:05:42we don't protect the lake.

2:05:44>> I don't want to I don't want to soften

2:05:45this at all. I want I just want to make

2:05:47I want to make the policy clear.

2:05:50And I don't want people

2:05:54the way that it's written now, people

2:05:56just kind of get confused. I want it to

2:05:57be a very clear. This policy is only for

2:06:02hazardous trees.

2:06:04Not hazardous as you the homeowner

2:06:06decides.

2:06:07You know, you might be able to look at

2:06:09it and say, "Yes, that tree is very

2:06:11obviously hazardous." But

2:06:14you know, it needs to be professionally

2:06:16assessed and

2:06:19part of owning property is taking care

2:06:21of things. If your furnace blows, if

2:06:23your window breaks, if your transmission

2:06:26blows in your car, these are all things

2:06:27that you have to do. People don't think

2:06:28about that with the trees on their

2:06:29property that you have to take care of

2:06:31trees on your property.

2:06:34Um

2:06:36And I don't know how to get that message

2:06:39out of

2:06:41you know, it's not like we can start

2:06:42offering free tree assessments to anyone

2:06:45that's interested. That'd be a great

2:06:46service if anyone ever wanted to do

2:06:48that, but

2:06:49>> service.

2:06:49>> You know, how do we promote

2:06:52healthy trees

2:06:54for

2:06:56the average homeowner that's not

2:06:57thinking about the trees on their

2:06:59property. They're just thinking about

2:07:00their their house or their lake view or

2:07:03their

2:07:04million other things they've got going

2:07:06on in their life.

2:07:07>> Right.

2:07:09All right, let's roll this up.

2:07:11We can. We're

2:07:12>> Yeah.

2:07:14Not asking for decisions tonight, just

2:07:15kind of

2:07:16>> Okay.

2:07:17>> And then if there's anything in your

2:07:19review of this policy, is there anything

2:07:20that's missing in it now? Is there

2:07:22something we need to strengthen? Is

2:07:23there, you know,

2:07:27what are your thoughts on how we're

2:07:29handling these things now?

2:07:34>> My opinion is that we are handling

2:07:35things very well.

2:07:38I think we

2:07:40we soften any anytime we go near the

2:07:4220-ft

2:07:43no touch zone and the 50-ft no structure

2:07:46zone,

2:07:47we're bunch of candies.

2:07:49>> Sure. You're kidding me. You're kidding

2:07:51me.

2:07:52>> We need to tighten those up.

2:07:55We Those weren't put in

2:07:58as marginal lines where you or if Oh, 20

2:08:01ft, I'll go 18. Sure, you know.

2:08:05>> So, I think we that too.

2:08:07In my opinion, I think the RDA just

2:08:10slows the process.

2:08:12I would rather if a tree is within the

2:08:1525-ft no disturb zone that they're

2:08:17proposing through this process, that it

2:08:20just automatically goes to you all. It

2:08:22supersedes my approval. I can

2:08:25unless it's like the tree is literally

2:08:27falling and we can like the roots are

2:08:29coming out of the ground and I can see

2:08:32it, but I think that instead of an RDA,

2:08:35it's just

2:08:37if it's within the 25-ft no disturb

2:08:39zone, it has to go before the commission

2:08:42because

2:08:43they will you'll all issue a waiver for

2:08:46disturbance within the 25-ft and kind of

2:08:48go from there.

2:08:49Um I think that's kind of a

2:08:52more efficient way

2:08:55to get it done and then you still have

2:08:56it and you're protected by the bylaw,

2:08:58you're protected by

2:09:00the regulations. Well within your rights

2:09:02to require the mitigation.

2:09:05>> So we're still coming uh here but not

2:09:07through the RDA.

2:09:08>> Right.

2:09:10For hazardous trees.

2:09:12>> yeah.

2:09:12>> Yeah.

2:09:13But we can bounce this around and kind

2:09:15of keep

2:09:16>> Yeah.

2:09:17>> talking about it.

2:09:19>> All right.

2:09:20>> Thank you.

2:09:21>> Uh

2:09:23>> Draft meeting schedule?

2:09:27>> Yeah. What the hell did I do with that?

2:09:29>> So

2:09:31um

2:09:33as Ed pointed out

2:09:36this is more meetings.

2:09:37>> What?

2:09:38>> As Ed pointed out, this is more

2:09:39meetings.

2:09:40>> We have more meetings.

2:09:41>> But

2:09:42hear me out.

2:09:44So

2:09:45>> Okay.

2:09:45>> I'm proposing

2:09:47a consistent second and fourth Thursday

2:09:50meeting. So we'd meet the second and

2:09:51fourth Thursday of every month with the

2:09:53exception of November and December.

2:09:56Um these are all spaced out so they're

2:10:00It worked out really nicely with major

2:10:01holidays, vacations and things like

2:10:03that. Obviously, you guys go on your own

2:10:05vacations and stuff. But

2:10:08having the bi-weekly meetings will help

2:10:12us reduce our agenda size.

2:10:15So yes, there's more meetings but in

2:10:19theory they'd be

2:10:20>> have been fairly light.

2:10:22>> In the last like three last three.

2:10:25>> Yeah.

2:10:25>> Last three weeks.

2:10:26>> We've been

2:10:27Yeah. But wouldn't it be great if we

2:10:29were here for an hour instead of 4

2:10:32hours?

2:10:34But it also gives us time to do other

2:10:37stuff like looking at the tree removal

2:10:39policy. We are so overdue for an update

2:10:42on the bylaw, especially with the solar

2:10:44things that are coming up, changes in

2:10:46the well protection act. We have to

2:10:47strengthen our stormwater

2:10:49section and put some more protections

2:10:52for our lakes and our wetlands in our

2:10:55bylaw. Like it has to get done and we

2:10:56just don't have the time to do it. So it

2:10:59allows time for more for that. If we can

2:11:01obviously we're having this joint

2:11:03meeting with SLAC in December and if we

2:11:06kind of keep that as ongoing thing of

2:11:09one, you know, say

2:11:11We've also been talking for

2:11:13since I've been here, if not longer, of

2:11:15having a consistent meeting with trails

2:11:17to just kind of just,

2:11:19you know, get on the same page of things

2:11:20that we can have a joint meeting with

2:11:22trails in the spring and a joint meeting

2:11:23with SLAC at the end of the summer just

2:11:25kind of every year, too. So

2:11:27um

2:11:29that's kind of my thought and

2:11:31most commissions do like a first and

2:11:33third or a second and fourth. So it's

2:11:35not like an abnormal thing from my point

2:11:38of view. It's just

2:11:39>> The only thing will be like feeding the

2:11:41site visit.

2:11:42>> Mhm.

2:11:43>> So it's one week meeting, the next one

2:11:45site visit.

2:11:45>> That's true. That is going to be a tough

2:11:46one.

2:11:47>> So it's still like a 3-week cycle

2:11:49um and there you know, there can be some

2:11:52overlap where we might be able to

2:11:54depending on the applications get site

2:11:56visits done for these are on this agenda

2:11:59and these are on the next one.

2:12:00>> January 28th, February 1st.

2:12:04Uh

2:12:053-week cycle.

2:12:07>> Basically a February 1st after January

2:12:0828th, that's a little You're just saying

2:12:10cuz it's the first and third. Okay, I

2:12:11got you. Okay, I got you.

2:12:13>> That's not the second one, but

2:12:15>> Yeah, that might be tough.

2:12:16>> Um

2:12:21I mean that's what I That's what I was

2:12:22used to before I came here, but

2:12:23>> No, Spencer, cuz I just tell something

2:12:25that's that's how they do it. Which I

2:12:27mean from the other end, from our end

2:12:28it's a little bit tougher, but from

2:12:30like, you know, the public's end, that

2:12:32gives

2:12:33you know, it gives it a lot more

2:12:35accessibility. You know what I'm saying?

2:12:36So if you're coming in for a project if

2:12:38you missed one you at least know, okay,

2:12:41hey, it's You know, right now we're

2:12:42doing every 3 weeks you get a fit It

2:12:44sounds like it's kind of a it's not set.

2:12:46I get your point on that. I definitely

2:12:49It's, you know, I just every Everybody

2:12:51might miss some meetings.

2:12:52What's that?

2:12:53>> We've also had four revisions to our

2:12:54calendar this year.

2:12:56>> Sure. So, I mean, if we did that, I

2:12:57guess we just would have more maybe

2:12:59misses like of a

2:13:00>> I thought we did well with the calendar.

2:13:04Revisions You're going to July What were

2:13:05we going to do in July?

2:13:06>> two special meetings

2:13:08>> The 8th?

2:13:09Um

2:13:12>> I

2:13:13Um

2:13:14>> I just feel like with more meetings

2:13:15we're just want Some of us are just

2:13:17going to miss more, which might not be

2:13:18that bad. It's just You know what I'm

2:13:20saying? Like

2:13:21>> How many is a quorum for the

2:13:23>> As long as we always had Well, if three

2:13:24of us I mean, if three are here, it just

2:13:25would be really difficult if we're like

2:13:27tonight

2:13:28you know, where you could tell someone's

2:13:30not necessarily on board. Yeah. You

2:13:32know, or you know what I mean, on the

2:13:33same page. So

2:13:34>> So, our quorum is three. There's also a

2:13:36stipulation within our regulations that

2:13:39say

2:13:41that our voting quorum is also three.

2:13:43>> Yeah.

2:13:43>> So, in a typical

2:13:46quorum setting, say that only three of

2:13:48you showed up

2:13:49>> Yeah.

2:13:49>> and two of you vote in favor and one of

2:13:52you votes

2:13:54opposed,

2:13:55it would be the in favor. However,

2:13:58there's a stipulation our bylaw that

2:14:00says the quorum for voting is three. If

2:14:03there's only three here, three have to

2:14:04vote in favor or it's automatically

2:14:07is a no.

2:14:07>> Oh, really? Okay.

2:14:09>> And that's something that's within

2:14:11conservation.

2:14:11>> that. I actually kind of like that. I

2:14:13kind of like it

2:14:14>> Well, you know, I can tell you that it

2:14:16was played with before we put that in.

2:14:18>> Sure.

2:14:19>> You know?

2:14:19>> Yeah.

2:14:20I can understand that.

2:14:21I think it makes sense cuz it

2:14:23pushes everybody to think about it a

2:14:24little bit more.

2:14:26Not a problem. I

2:14:28You know

2:14:29>> So, February is not February 1st, it's

2:14:31February 10th.

2:14:33Yeah.

2:14:34That's just me not That's me

2:14:36fixing up everything as fast.

2:14:39Um

2:14:40That was just checking the schedule.

2:14:42Yeah. I mean

2:14:44we don't have to decide today cuz

2:14:45obviously Eric and Carsten aren't here

2:14:47either. Um

2:14:50>> Yeah.

2:14:50>> Yeah, so February would be

2:14:54the 11th. Supposed to be 11th, not 1st.

2:14:56Um but I would like to decide on it by

2:14:58November because we're going to start

2:15:00having people asking about January

2:15:02meetings.

2:15:04>> That makes more sense.

2:15:05>> Yep.

2:15:06>> Okay.

2:15:07>> And then I know at one point um you all

2:15:10tried to do like a consistent site visit

2:15:12day like I think when I first came here

2:15:15the meeting schedule had the site visit

2:15:16day already predetermined, too.

2:15:19>> Sure.

2:15:20>> That's just that's just really hard.

2:15:22>> With all of

2:15:23>> Unless you all retire.

2:15:25>> It's Saturday.

2:15:26>> [laughter]

2:15:27>> Or long.

2:15:28Saturday.

2:15:29>> Who came in on Saturday?

2:15:30>> What?

2:15:31>> Who came in on Saturday?

2:15:32>> Commission.

2:15:33It was it was

2:15:35you know Our commissioners and

2:15:36commission

2:15:37What? Yeah, no.

2:15:39>> Engineers are working on Saturdays and

2:15:42agents are working That's

2:15:43>> to do everything I can to get to all the

2:15:44meetings. I mean, if that's what we do

2:15:45is

2:15:48what we do.

2:15:49>> Well, I got the February one up to the

2:15:5111th that made me happy. I You love it

2:15:54that might actually be gone by then.

2:15:55>> I think 28th and then

2:15:57February 1st.

2:16:00>> Alathea.

2:16:02>> All right.

2:16:03>> But think on that and let me know.

2:16:05We'll look at it again and I'll make

2:16:07sure Carsten and

2:16:09um Eric get it.

2:16:11>> All right. CPC. Can I tell you about

2:16:13CPC?

2:16:16We had a meeting.

2:16:18And we spent

2:16:19>> And Ed told me about it.

2:16:20>> Yep. I don't know what

2:16:21>> No. No one knew about it until you told

2:16:24me and

2:16:24>> No, I was not there for that meeting.

2:16:26>> Yeah. And then I went, Aiden, did you

2:16:28Heather, Robin, did you guys know about

2:16:29this? And everyone was like, nope. I was

2:16:31like, all right.

2:16:33Who can go?

2:16:33>> So, how did it go?

2:16:35It went well. We um well, if you like

2:16:37spending money.

2:16:38>> Oh, well. Good times.

2:16:39>> 350,000.

2:16:41>> Wow.

2:16:41>> Um to start up the Dowdy Road.

2:16:45>> Okay.

2:16:46That great. Fantastic. We design what

2:16:491/4 of it?

2:16:51>> 25% design.

2:16:53>> Yeah, 25% of that will be design.

2:16:54>> Yeah.

2:16:58>> Okay, and we'll go from there.

2:16:59We got the money.

2:17:01Time to use it.

2:17:02>> Yep.

2:17:06Oh, we skipped over the rest of my

2:17:07updates.

2:17:08Oh.

2:17:09>> We did? Okay. Are you going to

2:17:11reschedule the Clinton meeting or

2:17:13>> Yeah, so

2:17:14can we backtrack?

2:17:15>> Yeah.

2:17:15>> Sure, please.

2:17:16>> All right. Um projects.

2:17:20A lot of projects. I applied for I put

2:17:22in two expression of interest for

2:17:24community one-stop grant the other day.

2:17:26One is for the completion of the Hobbs

2:17:29Brook Dam removal to replace that

2:17:32culvert.

2:17:33Um we are on the state's list of

2:17:37integrated waters for that being a high

2:17:40priority as of 2022, so I used that to

2:17:43my advantage as well to put in for that.

2:17:46And also that's part of the Grand Trunk

2:17:48Trail expansion, too.

2:17:49>> That would be amazing.

2:17:50>> It It would be amazing. So, and we

2:17:54already had a design. It's just making

2:17:56sure that design still complies.

2:17:58>> a design. They were

2:17:59It was in the money.

2:18:00>> So, just making sure that that design

2:18:02still meets today's standards. But

2:18:06um it was just the expression of

2:18:07interest. The grants themselves aren't

2:18:09going to open till

2:18:10end of December, early January, but that

2:18:13at least kind of gets the ball rolling.

2:18:14And then the second one that I applied

2:18:16for was to do a

2:18:19gravel parking lot on Haines Road on the

2:18:23Shepherd parcel, which is within the

2:18:25conservation restriction, to um

2:18:28connect to a trail to do a kayak launch

2:18:32right there, too.

2:18:33>> Have you ever gone in there and kayak?

2:18:36>> No.

2:18:38>> The only reason I ask is the

2:18:40>> I hear it's fun.

2:18:41>> There are four people that I've talked

2:18:43to about it cuz I

2:18:44>> What?

2:18:45>> With the rapids and the shallow beds and

2:18:48>> no water in there. This thing

2:18:50>> What is that? Where are we talking

2:18:51exactly? So, when you are driving down

2:18:54Haynes this way So, you're going down

2:18:56that way.

2:18:57You're before you get to Pop Plaza, the

2:19:01doggy place.

2:19:01>> So, before the bicycle

2:19:04>> Before Yep. There's

2:19:06There's like a little There's a bridge

2:19:08right there that goes over that river.

2:19:10>> That that little like old school used to

2:19:12be a spot to park down there.

2:19:13>> It's like clear field and then trees. We

2:19:17own that. There's a conservation

2:19:19restriction on it and we can't do

2:19:22anything on it, but the conservation

2:19:24restriction does allow us to put a

2:19:26parking lot there, which would benefit

2:19:29kayak launch and also you can walk up to

2:19:31the new Grand Trunk Trail expansion from

2:19:33there, too. So, there's some benefits,

2:19:35so

2:19:36>> Do you walk through the woods or no?

2:19:38No, it's on the other side of the river.

2:19:39>> You I mean, you can walk through the

2:19:41woods up I I think people definitely

2:19:43hunt on it just from like what I've seen

2:19:46of walking that property, but there's

2:19:47like not a lot to it. Um

2:19:50>> So, that connects with um

2:19:52River Road

2:19:55parking.

2:19:56Toy lot.

2:19:56>> Yeah, it's on the other side of the

2:19:58river, but yeah.

2:19:59>> Yeah.

2:20:00>> It's a pretty cool spot in there, yeah.

2:20:01If you go down on the river

2:20:02>> You put a kayak in like off of Main

2:20:04Street.

2:20:04>> Yeah.

2:20:05>> You go out there or something like that.

2:20:06>> Have you guys ever done the kayak race

2:20:08or the canoe race?

2:20:09>> No.

2:20:10>> Uh Timmy and I did anyway.

2:20:11>> I've heard it's really fun, though.

2:20:12>> Brendan won a canoe.

2:20:15>> Did you really?

2:20:16Sorry to cut you off on your tangent,

2:20:17but

2:20:18>> That's awesome.

2:20:18>> Oh, that's awesome.

2:20:19>> 15 when he did.

2:20:20>> Oh, that's awesome.

2:20:21>> We had a blast. We like inner tube, you

2:20:23know, do like the truck tire inner tube

2:20:25and tied it and like

2:20:26>> It'd be a good time.

2:20:27>> thing was destroyed cuz of the rocks and

2:20:28we were just taking It was like Charlie

2:20:29Brown. You're like going down the river.

2:20:31I'm like under the water trying to keep

2:20:33going. It was great. It's awesome.

2:20:34Sorry.

2:20:35>> Yeah, no, it's fine. Um

2:20:37yeah, it'd be a good time. So, if you

2:20:38know, we'll see how those calls go and

2:20:40if they think that those are eligible

2:20:41projects, the Hobbs Brook will be

2:20:42absolutely fantastic if we can finish

2:20:44that because that whole purpose of that

2:20:47project was to allow the trout to keep

2:20:49going because Massachusetts is losing

2:20:52all of its cold water fishery habitats

2:20:53because of partially cuz of dams and

2:20:56trees and ecological health is that our

2:20:58waters are just getting a whole lot

2:20:59warmer and we're losing a lot of that

2:21:01habitat. So, there's a the state has a

2:21:03really high priority on maintaining cold

2:21:05water fisheries right now. So, I think

2:21:08it's a great project that they should

2:21:09vote for and to get awarded, but we'll

2:21:12see.

2:21:13Um we've officially submitted a 604B

2:21:15grant for a watershed study for Cedar

2:21:18Lake.

2:21:19>> Mhm.

2:21:20>> Fingers crossed on that. We've got We

2:21:22got letters of support from all over.

2:21:26Um the a group of home school kids even

2:21:29wrote some letters on why we should make

2:21:32the lake healthy and all that too that

2:21:33we were able to put in.

2:21:35Um

2:21:37So, we'll see how that goes.

2:21:40Balla watershed study is underway. So,

2:21:42they got $20,000 last year from

2:21:44betterment funds to do a study that just

2:21:46kind of expanded upon the lake sampling.

2:21:49The first sampling date was

2:21:52uh Tuesday.

2:21:53So, we identified some new sampling

2:21:56locations beyond what the two that we

2:21:58usually do for our year-round sampling.

2:22:01So, they'll start getting some more

2:22:02information there to kind of just help

2:22:03Big Island Lake Association come up with

2:22:05a better plan

2:22:06on, you know, an idea of what's going

2:22:09on.

2:22:10Um

2:22:12which is also fantastic.

2:22:14I submitted my budget request for this

2:22:17year with a request to increase the

2:22:19funding for the lake sampling because

2:22:21for the since 2002 we've been doing it

2:22:23around Labor Day, which is kind of the

2:22:25highest stress times for the lakes.

2:22:27However, we've never done it prior to

2:22:29summer. So, we don't really have that

2:22:31kind of like baseline data of what it's

2:22:33like when the lake is not under

2:22:35stressful conditions. So, I've requested

2:22:37to increase the funding to allow me to

2:22:39do that for

2:22:412028 season, which would be a really

2:22:43great, you know, information for us to

2:22:45have.

2:22:47Um I also I think I said this before,

2:22:49but I've got an intern from Worcester

2:22:50State that's looking at all the lake

2:22:52sampling data, helping identify some

2:22:55trends with it because that's just

2:22:56something that we don't have that

2:22:58expertise in the office to really be

2:23:00able to do.

2:23:01And so that information when they have

2:23:03put that together will come to you all,

2:23:05it'll go to Slack

2:23:06and whatnot. So we're we're doing a lot

2:23:09with the lakes, we're doing a lot with

2:23:10the forest.

2:23:13I tried to get more funding to do more

2:23:15forest plans on some of our other

2:23:18parcels, but the state's funding ran out

2:23:20in about a month because they had a 80%

2:23:23federal budget cut to that program. So

2:23:27until more funding becomes available,

2:23:29we'll kind of just keep looking for

2:23:30other resources, but federal government

2:23:32doesn't care about your forest, so in

2:23:34case you didn't already know.

2:23:36Um

2:23:37then

2:23:39Plimpton

2:23:40So

2:23:41we revised we didn't we didn't revise

2:23:44the contract cuz we were just at the end

2:23:46of it, so we did an addendum to the

2:23:47contract that would kind of be able to

2:23:49bring out Jill's services out to

2:23:51December to kind of get us through these

2:23:53final humps and figure out what's going

2:23:54on.

2:23:56Obviously we the public comment period

2:23:58happened and we had, you know, all of

2:24:01the feedback from

2:24:03the Kickemuit Trust, from trails, from

2:24:06individual people that had just

2:24:08submitted comments. Then we had the

2:24:10meeting where we were getting feedback

2:24:12from the commission and we heard from

2:24:13some people as well.

2:24:15But it was kind of

2:24:20unproductive feedback because yes, we

2:24:22heard that people want to preserve some

2:24:24of those trails, but that's kind of just

2:24:28where it stopped. Earlier in this

2:24:30project, we had asked the trails

2:24:33committee to specifically kind of

2:24:34identify what trails they wanted to try

2:24:38and keep so we could kind of implement

2:24:39that in the plan and go forward. We

2:24:41didn't really get that specific

2:24:42information. So using the maps that were

2:24:45already done that laid out all of the

2:24:48unauthorized trails

2:24:51we it got broken into like three or four

2:24:53sections and Jill sent that to the

2:24:56trails committee and to Nemba and said,

2:24:59"Take a look at these trail systems and

2:25:01fill out this Google form to kind of

2:25:03rank these so we can figure out where

2:25:05your priorities that if if you know we

2:25:07were trying to move forward to one like

2:25:08where do your priorities lie where are

2:25:09the ones that are the most used that you

2:25:11want to salvage

2:25:13she sent this email back October 13th

2:25:17I sent a follow-up email on Saturday

2:25:20because why wouldn't I work on Saturday

2:25:23to kind of just say hey you know we're

2:25:24trying to move this along we want your

2:25:26feedback the commission wants your

2:25:28feedback to kind of hear this but this

2:25:30this is the you know

2:25:33in the plan itself it says we're going

2:25:34to plan trails like that's that's part

2:25:36of the plan

2:25:39that's that's part of the details of the

2:25:40plan of the outline of plan we got a lot

2:25:42of some feedback and some of you all

2:25:43provided me with some feedback of

2:25:44specific things in the plan that we

2:25:46should adjust whether it was like

2:25:48wording coloring expanding on some

2:25:50certain things that were all that we're

2:25:51going back to do as well as of right now

2:25:54we haven't gotten a response

2:25:57>> I think we need to go down there I

2:25:58walked around a little you can kind of

2:25:59see which ones are the main ones

2:26:02>> so

2:26:04Jill sent the email October 13th I sent

2:26:06a follow-up on Saturday she sent an

2:26:08email back today to both of that both

2:26:11those organizations just trying to

2:26:12follow up to get a response because

2:26:15really she needs that by October 27th so

2:26:17that way we can go in and you know stay

2:26:20on track with the project um

2:26:24I'm just trying to figure out the most

2:26:26efficient way to kind of move on with

2:26:28the review of the master plan itself

2:26:32in my opinion

2:26:34I think that the joint meeting is part

2:26:37one of actually implementing the plan

2:26:40of where we're sitting down and saying

2:26:42okay let's plan let's do this all right

2:26:45we want to keep things let's get the

2:26:47process going for

2:26:50you know applying for natural heritage

2:26:52and all that okay we want to shut down

2:26:53these trails all right let's start

2:26:56planning and implement applying for

2:26:58permits because even that we have to

2:26:59apply for permits to shut down certain

2:27:01trails cuz that's still activity

2:27:03um

2:27:04>> in the natural heritage that we dealt

2:27:07with or the open burning

2:27:09we gave it

2:27:10we dealt with.

2:27:11>> Absolutely. So, kind of the in our

2:27:13preliminary discussions too

2:27:16basically

2:27:18we will not be able to do anything on

2:27:21the property

2:27:23that like we want to do like some of the

2:27:24other things that are in the plan like

2:27:26restoration in the field and or doing

2:27:29like the boardwalk or fixing the wetland

2:27:30crossings. We can't do anything without

2:27:33their approval. Natural Heritage has

2:27:35basically said, you know, we're not

2:27:37giving you authorization to approve

2:27:39something until you go back and fix

2:27:41things. That's the same way we would

2:27:42carry things too. We're not going to

2:27:44give you a permit to do activity until

2:27:45you address your violations.

2:27:47Um

2:27:48>> So, they might just say you have to res-

2:27:50Do what they

2:27:51>> I'm genuinely surprised they didn't fine

2:27:53us to be honest. Once they saw the

2:27:54number of how many trails were out there

2:27:57because it was way more than what they

2:27:58even thought it was. I'm genuinely

2:28:00surprised that they didn't fine on the

2:28:02town.

2:28:03>> National Heritage can fine the town?

2:28:04>> Absolutely.

2:28:05They can it

2:28:06>> I'll learn more about National Heritage.

2:28:07>> Yeah.

2:28:08Um

2:28:09>> That's what I'm learning throughout this

2:28:10whole process.

2:28:11>> you know, it's

2:28:13>> [clears throat]

2:28:14>> right now it's we we have to

2:28:17by it it if anything after What was it?

2:28:20December 12th I I think was the

2:28:21deadline.

2:28:23Um we're kind of going to be on our own.

2:28:25I have the editable files and whatnot

2:28:27that I can do, but

2:28:30from after that point

2:28:32Conservation Works has other projects,

2:28:34so they can't

2:28:35you know, keep committing to these

2:28:36unless we're doing other projects with

2:28:38them. So, that's you know, facilitating

2:28:40conversations with Natural Heritage and

2:28:42things like that. So,

2:28:45maybe we'll get the feedback from NEMA

2:28:47and Trails, uh you know, maybe we won't.

2:28:50But,

2:28:53>> I mean, can we just

2:28:54>> It's consistent with what we're what

2:28:56we've already been seeing for the 11

2:28:57months that we've been working on the

2:28:58project, so I don't know.

2:29:01>> I mean, is there a way to word it just

2:29:02to close it out like in a sense for her

2:29:05from her end?

2:29:06Um you know, we know these are the

2:29:08trails that we have to deal with moving

2:29:10forward. I know in that we've had these

2:29:11lists, but could we just

2:29:12>> So, the the end result is basically the

2:29:15commission votes to

2:29:18accept the master plan and submit that

2:29:21for, you know,

2:29:23>> The master plan's explicit that it would

2:29:24all

2:29:27>> No, cuz it still says planning.

2:29:29>> It It says

2:29:30>> It says planning and

2:29:31>> Wait, wait, that's a misconception of of

2:29:33what the the master plan

2:29:34>> Uh, laws

2:29:35>> and well, all the people that were here

2:29:37last time that it's a recommendation to

2:29:41support the wildlife of the site. The

2:29:43recommendation is to close, but it

2:29:44doesn't mean that they all will be

2:29:46closed how when they're going to be

2:29:49closed uh some of them and they have

2:29:51like to go through whatever is left

2:29:54there. It has to go through an approval

2:29:55permit or like an approval process to

2:29:58guarantee that it's

2:30:00>> We just

2:30:01>> shared the I shared the folder that has

2:30:03all the public comments that we received

2:30:05during the public comment period from

2:30:06everyone.

2:30:07Um, and a lot of them are copy and

2:30:08paste.

2:30:10And, you know, just from some of the

2:30:11conversations like you

2:30:14People don't read things.

2:30:15They just jump to the end and go

2:30:18straight to the cliff notes section of

2:30:20it. And

2:30:23there are areas that we've identified

2:30:24that we can strengthen word choice and

2:30:26things like that and we're going to put

2:30:27in a whole section of like what does

2:30:30trail closure look like? Cuz it's not

2:30:31like we just go in and put some sticks

2:30:33down. Some of them Yes, some of them

2:30:36that might be more of a process where we

2:30:38might have to bring in Phil. So, it's

2:30:39not We're going to add a section of kind

2:30:42of what does this generally look like?

2:30:45Not specific routes, just generally what

2:30:48does trail closure consist of if we have

2:30:49to abandon things? We have to do it all

2:30:50the time. The trails committee has to do

2:30:52it on Ledmine all the time because

2:30:54people, you know, create their own paths

2:30:56when things start to get muddy. This is

2:30:58a little bit of a different situation

2:31:00because we have a group that has said

2:31:03that they went in and created trails

2:31:07without approval because they feel that

2:31:10it's, you know, the right of the

2:31:11taxpayer. I get that perspective. It's

2:31:14>> What group was that?

2:31:15Nimba?

2:31:16>> Nimba. That's how it was listed on the

2:31:18event.

2:31:19>> If And if you walk some areas, there is

2:31:21a lot of disturbance like creating like

2:31:23mounds on the side like to go and jump.

2:31:25It's like some areas and I don't know if

2:31:27like if

2:31:28because they mentioned that some of the

2:31:30trails were approved and not and that's

2:31:31why I asked that question because I was

2:31:33okay, was this approved? Then it's like

2:31:35okay, but like just going and doing all

2:31:38these build up and digging and like

2:31:40making more It's like a

2:31:42>> natural area

2:31:43>> I don't want to like

2:31:45This This organization is just one

2:31:46example and you know, they're dealing

2:31:48with this with other towns too, but it's

2:31:51It's private property owners as well as

2:31:53they think it's people have this kind of

2:31:55mentality, well, it's public land. I'm a

2:31:57taxpayer, I'm the public, I can do what

2:31:59I want. We you know, we've seen it on so

2:32:01many of our properties of well, I abut

2:32:05Ledmine, I abut Hein's Farm. That means

2:32:08that I can just connect my property. I

2:32:10can go make my own trail cuz I'm the

2:32:12taxpayer and I know that. And I think

2:32:14it's just trying to communicate of

2:32:17we understand what you want and we can

2:32:19help you make it happen, but you have to

2:32:21go through the process because I s-

2:32:252 years ago

2:32:27two specific people sat in my office and

2:32:29we talked about Plympton trails and I

2:32:31said, if you want to formalize these

2:32:34trails, you have my support, let's do

2:32:36it, but we have to map them and go

2:32:38through the process and then it kind of

2:32:40just sat. We've known all these trails

2:32:42these unauthorized trails have been

2:32:43there since 2017

2:32:45and everyone kind of just

2:32:47sat and I get that the master plan

2:32:50process is was supposed to kind of like

2:32:52help address that and you know

2:32:56we're trying to, but

2:32:59that's that that's part of the master

2:33:01plan is once the master plan is

2:33:02implemented, now we sit down and we say,

2:33:04okay, what do we do? Where do we start?

2:33:07If we we know that if we want to do

2:33:08anything, we have to do some clean up.

2:33:10So, are we going through a process of

2:33:11formally adopting trails? Are we going

2:33:13through a process of formally closing

2:33:14trails? And if we need to do, you know,

2:33:17if there's specific things in the plan

2:33:19itself that will better define that

2:33:20language, um

2:33:23again, like we're trying to get all of

2:33:24these edits done by next week so we can

2:33:28have draft three.

2:33:30But if there's specific things, like if

2:33:31if if the message is not clear what

2:33:34we're trying to do, if the wording is

2:33:35not right, or, you know, sometimes like

2:33:38when we're things like writing things

2:33:39like this, you know,

2:33:41we might not think that it's as

2:33:42technical because that's, you know, just

2:33:45the way we are talking, but to Joe Schmo

2:33:47that's reading it, it might be really

2:33:48technical and it's not getting across.

2:33:50These are things that like this is

2:33:51really constructive feedback that will

2:33:54make it a great plan to just kind of

2:33:56help other people understand. But

2:34:00I'm asking of like what what's our what

2:34:03do you kind of what's our next step to

2:34:05move forward?

2:34:08>> I mean, do we

2:34:10>> [clears throat]

2:34:11>> I guess you just said it and I don't

2:34:12have a better way of saying it, but like

2:34:14do we just

2:34:16put it out there where like the trails

2:34:18have to be,

2:34:19you know, I'm Packham, and Natural

2:34:20Heritage have to accept them. There's

2:34:22nothing like for us,

2:34:24like there's they're already there, so

2:34:26like that's really the only thing I

2:34:27guess my point is is

2:34:29how do we just say we're willing to work

2:34:31with whoever on it? Just that those are

2:34:33the things that have to happen. That's

2:34:34out of our hands, right?

2:34:36>> We have some guidelines.

2:34:37trail density. Maybe we should just say

2:34:39we are

2:34:39>> This is

2:34:40and I and I get all that, but it's like

2:34:42and and this is the problem I guess and

2:34:43mean to I don't want to get long-winded

2:34:45about it in a sense, but like we're

2:34:47dealing with the human dimension, right?

2:34:48Of our resource here, right? So, it's

2:34:50like

2:34:51the people that we're dealing with are

2:34:53are people that are outside all the

2:34:54time, and their whole goal is to be they

2:34:57may consider themselves naturalists or

2:34:59whatever they consider, and I think that

2:35:00was why we were having such like a a

2:35:02tough time the other day because they

2:35:03feel that they're the ones that are

2:35:05being the stewards on the ground. And

2:35:07so, it's like

2:35:09it's not necessarily that way, right?

2:35:10Because there's things that we have to

2:35:12worry about, there's certain species,

2:35:14and you know, I I mountain bike for

2:35:15years. I walked those trailers. To be

2:35:17honest, if I was I'd be heartbroken if I

2:35:19was riding those trailers and we had to

2:35:20take them out just because the flow of

2:35:22the trails do work really well, but

2:35:24unfortunately, it just doesn't work with

2:35:25what we're doing, right? So, it's how do

2:35:27we word it just to say like we're on

2:35:29your side? And I know this is just a

2:35:31really

2:35:32abstract way of saying it, but like

2:35:33we're on your side, but like there's and

2:35:35I know you've said it and I just maybe

2:35:36it's and I read through the whole thing,

2:35:38but like how do we get it concrete? So,

2:35:39if someone just picked it up that has

2:35:42that point where they're just a mountain

2:35:43biker, they're a budding landowner. I

2:35:45mean, you could go up like the north

2:35:46side off of uh

2:35:49like [cough and clears throat] Allen or

2:35:49whatever and you could see where people

2:35:51are coming in, right? Like there's

2:35:52definitely home homeowners that are

2:35:54working this trail that you can see.

2:35:56>> Yeah. They're destroying property.

2:35:58>> Yeah, they're they're bringing signs.

2:35:59They're making sure that it's, you know

2:36:00what I'm saying? They're really working

2:36:01this. And so, for them I and I think

2:36:03that's where this came from the other

2:36:05day is like you know,

2:36:07they're just they're insulted cuz they

2:36:09feel like they know what they're doing.

2:36:11So, why should anyone and then I get

2:36:12that that's a normal Yeah, way of being,

2:36:14but how do we

2:36:17you know, just

2:36:18>> I think

2:36:18>> word it in a sense that it's like we'll

2:36:19work with you. We want this to happen.

2:36:21And the problem is that I feel like half

2:36:23the problem is the trail density is what

2:36:25makes those trails so nice.

2:36:27You know what I'm saying? Because like

2:36:29in the say that square footage of this

2:36:30building, you can ride for 25 30

2:36:33minutes. You know what I'm saying?

2:36:34>> And that's the worst part like for by

2:36:36other day, right?

2:36:36>> Exactly. That's the exact worst part

2:36:39about

2:36:39>> walking and we walked for an hour and

2:36:41then we came out. It's like

2:36:42>> Oh, the car is there.

2:36:43>> Yeah, you're [laughter] like two feet

2:36:44away from where you started, yeah.

2:36:46>> And it's like it's like a maze. But

2:36:49maybe they they

2:36:51um

2:36:53it's kind of like separating the plan

2:36:54from the implementation and they think a

2:36:56lot of those things go into the

2:36:58implementation, but maybe the plan can

2:37:00have

2:37:01in the

2:37:02recommendation

2:37:04of trail closures and then it has

2:37:07something on adding or or

2:37:10creating other trails, we can have

2:37:13a a statement that says

2:37:16um, consultation with the different

2:37:20stakeholders that use this these trails,

2:37:23we are going to,

2:37:25um,

2:37:26assess

2:37:27which trails remain open in a way that

2:37:30it supports both the biodiversity and

2:37:33the activities of the land. So, then in

2:37:35consultation with the PAC with and so

2:37:37that is kind of like a statement that is

2:37:39clear.

2:37:40>> And that's kind of why we asked

2:37:43trails and NEMBA to kind of like rank

2:37:47those ones because if they both agree

2:37:49and say and they both vote the same

2:37:51number one, that's so easy for us to

2:37:53kind of put in the plan of like these

2:37:54stakeholders have identified trail

2:37:57number one as something that we'd like

2:37:58to ta- start taking steps to try and

2:38:00formalize this and make it an accepted

2:38:02trail. But like it's just we're kind of

2:38:05hitting that dead end of it just it's

2:38:06not,

2:38:07you know,

2:38:08we asked for feedback, we wait on

2:38:09feedback, and then it's just kind of

2:38:12How How do we move forward right now to

2:38:16finish a master plan that we can then

2:38:19start implementing?

2:38:21>> And how do we do that in the next month

2:38:22and a half?

2:38:23>> We should like move forward like in in I

2:38:25like to have a vote on the on the master

2:38:27plan.

2:38:28Um,

2:38:29with like the people understanding that

2:38:32it is not like they that these things

2:38:34have to go through a permit. And in I

2:38:37feel uncomfortable

2:38:39um,

2:38:41allowing

2:38:42the,

2:38:44uh, the users of these trails like

2:38:46knowing that the density of trails is

2:38:48huge to guide the agenda of

2:38:51conservation.

2:38:52Uh, that that makes me uncomfortable

2:38:54because like now it's trails, but I I

2:38:57in like, uh,

2:38:58um,

2:39:015 years from now, like it's it's like,

2:39:03"Oh, we would like to put docks all over

2:39:06all over." It's like because boating is

2:39:07activity that we all enjoy and we want

2:39:09to

2:39:10And so and so it's, um, like now it's

2:39:13trails, but we we kind of like sets a

2:39:14precedent of the activity guiding the

2:39:17the um,

2:39:19the implementation of the of the plan.

2:39:22>> So

2:39:23>> So I think the plan has to be

2:39:24independent of the implementation.

2:39:27>> If we if we don't hear if if neither of

2:39:30those groups respond to us by the 27th,

2:39:32we don't have

2:39:33we don't have that follow-up feedback

2:39:35from them. So draft three is just going

2:39:38to get revised based off of all of the

2:39:41feedback that I've gotten from everyone

2:39:42individually so far and just kind of

2:39:44things that were we've decided to put in

2:39:46just based off of the conversations,

2:39:48too. So

2:39:51regardless of whether or not we get

2:39:52feedback from them before that deadline,

2:39:57do I just put it on the November meeting

2:39:59to look at draft three for adoption and

2:40:02approval? Or

2:40:05and then we, you know,

2:40:08preemptively schedule a joint meeting in

2:40:10the spring where we're saying, "Okay, we

2:40:12have a master plan. Let's get to work.

2:40:14Let's figure out what step one is." And

2:40:16then that's kind of when we have joint

2:40:18meetings and stakeholder discussion and

2:40:19all that cuz

2:40:22we've done the public comments.

2:40:24We've had, you know, I've

2:40:27Trails has been or at least Brandon and

2:40:30Tom have been in the loop of the project

2:40:32since last November and asked for

2:40:35feedback, asked for comment. When draft

2:40:38one came out and she sent it to the

2:40:42major stakeholders and we posted it for

2:40:44the public, she said, "Here's draft one.

2:40:47I'd be happy to come to a Trails

2:40:48Committee meeting and present this to

2:40:51the committee." And it

2:40:54you know,

2:40:55didn't They didn't take her up on that

2:40:57offer. So it's

2:41:00How do we move forward?

2:41:01>> So uh I already sent you like sent you

2:41:04my comments about like very very minor

2:41:06so I agree with that like I just scale

2:41:08and things like that. So maybe like the

2:41:09the point will be like the other members

2:41:11of the of the

2:41:13of this committee saying, "Okay, what

2:41:15would you need to see in that uh in that

2:41:19plan

2:41:22to approve it? Or which things you would

2:41:24not want to see in that plan.

2:41:26>> Or at least, you know,

2:41:27we don't need their approval, but

2:41:29>> Yeah, yeah, yeah.

2:41:30>> Yeah, you need you need your approval.

2:41:32>> Yeah, yeah, yeah.

2:41:33>> Um

2:41:34because

2:41:37>> it wasn't clear like from like the the

2:41:38last meeting when we have every

2:41:41and and it's super important to have the

2:41:43public commenting. Like how would that

2:41:45is like okay, we don't have a plan and

2:41:47then we leave everything as it is.

2:41:49>> The last meeting was we should we build

2:41:51by emotion than actual productivity.

2:41:54>> Exactly. We just we

2:41:55>> I I went back and I rewatched it and I'm

2:41:57trying to pick up the comments from, you

2:41:59know, the people that were in the

2:42:00audience and and it and I'm like, all

2:42:02right, with the comments that they're

2:42:04giving, where do we

2:42:06make changes? And it wasn't that type of

2:42:08feedback.

2:42:09>> Yeah.

2:42:10>> Well, they just want to keep them open,

2:42:11I think.

2:42:12The The only thing I got out of that was

2:42:13>> There There I don't see any reality that

2:42:15we can keep all of those trails open and

2:42:19uh and if that's the case, we wouldn't

2:42:20be able to do anything else on the

2:42:21property.

2:42:22>> But the only thing I did get and he's on

2:42:23trails, it's on NEMBA or NEmba.

2:42:25Um I can't remember his name. Nate. He

2:42:28did mention that he's working with the

2:42:29Brimfield State Forest. I haven't I

2:42:31haven't ridden in the Brimfield State

2:42:32Forest in probably 10, 12 years, but he

2:42:35mentioned that they have the same

2:42:36density going on in the State Forest and

2:42:39so they

2:42:41have come to terms with the state on

2:42:43that and we're working something out.

2:42:45So, I would love to know how that works.

2:42:47And then that may doesn't help for this

2:42:49plan, but I feel like

2:42:51>> The person that they're actually working

2:42:52with on that, I'm in contact with, too,

2:42:54because it's someone it's the same

2:42:57person that we worked with that

2:42:58spearheaded the trail improvement

2:43:00projects over at Wells, too, so

2:43:02>> I would be cautious with that because we

2:43:04always says that every project

2:43:05>> It's a

2:43:06>> friendly has different like because

2:43:08State Forest is huge.

2:43:09>> But the conversation is very similar.

2:43:11>> species disease like a primary forest

2:43:14[clears throat] area that is connecting

2:43:16like through. So, it's they might be

2:43:18different. So, I would just like like

2:43:20>> I understand what you're saying. Yeah,

2:43:21totally get what you're saying on that.

2:43:23>> So, you know,

2:43:25we're trying to get you draft three by

2:43:27the first week of November.

2:43:29Um

2:43:31so

2:43:32do I just put

2:43:34draft three

2:43:35on the November 24th meeting?

2:43:38>> Sounds good.

2:43:40Sounds good to me.

2:43:41>> Works with me.

2:43:41>> Yeah, sounds good.

2:43:43>> All right. Run through quick everything

2:43:44else.

2:43:44>> And if you question it

2:43:46>> Huh?

2:43:46>> Now,

2:43:47I wanted a

2:43:49group site visit.

2:43:51>> Oh, sure.

2:43:52>> Well, at the last meeting it was one of

2:43:53the things I requested in

2:43:55planning.

2:43:56>> You know, what I think is going to be

2:43:56really difficult with that is it is an

2:43:59immense

2:44:00depending on what we want to look at.

2:44:02Like if you guys are wanting

2:44:03>> we look at the spaghetti.

2:44:04>> What's that?

2:44:05>> You look at the spaghetti. That

2:44:07>> Sure.

2:44:07>> section

2:44:07>> Well, I mean the spaghetti itself is is

2:44:09a couple hours long.

2:44:10>> Well, it's quite a far because I I took

2:44:13one of the trails.

2:44:13>> [laughter]

2:44:14>> And what you can do with which with

2:44:16those type of trails

2:44:17>> Eric, I'm pretty sure you and Nick have

2:44:19all walked it and I know that.

2:44:20>> almost all of them if you just walk

2:44:21straight through. So,

2:44:23>> Yeah.

2:44:23>> you could go right into the woods, get

2:44:24yourself some I mean, if you do it cold

2:44:26enough you would wouldn't have to worry

2:44:27about the

2:44:27>> hunting season. I'll bring you in.

2:44:28>> could literally Yeah. Now, can people

2:44:30hunt on that property?

2:44:31>> Um yes, but it's like a

2:44:34it has to be like 500 ft from the Seven

2:44:36Allen Road lot because that was worked

2:44:39into the conservation restriction

2:44:40because they were concerned about people

2:44:41hunting there.

2:44:42>> also um

2:44:43they have to be five 500 ft from any

2:44:45dwelling.

2:44:46>> Yeah.

2:44:47>> Sure.

2:44:48>> Yeah.

2:44:48>> So, but you could do it that way and

2:44:49walk it.

2:44:50>> And I walked uh

2:44:52to the town line trail, which is like up

2:44:54at the top. It's probably the highest

2:44:55point up there and that's a pretty good

2:44:57one. But that gets kind of messy. I

2:44:58don't and then I'm not sure if I'm

2:44:59>> I've walked almost all of them at this

2:45:01>> I've got I've probably got like two more

2:45:03hours and I'll be done. I think.

2:45:05I tried to do the outline of it and then

2:45:07I was like, I can't do all of them.

2:45:08>> have You guys have to just just

2:45:10Jill has spent just countless hours like

2:45:13out there. Like she GPS trailed all like

2:45:16those are her actual GPS things. She

2:45:18did, you know, all so many different map

2:45:20scanning. She would We were helping um

2:45:23the historic commission is working on

2:45:26something with Plympton as well trying

2:45:28to bring some of that in and we worked

2:45:30that into the plan and she helped kind

2:45:31of get some them some of the maps that,

2:45:34you know, I was like, "Hey, we're

2:45:35working on this anyway, can we

2:45:37get some of this stuff for them, too?"

2:45:38So, like, there's there's been a lot of

2:45:40time of just being out there and I've

2:45:42been out there quite a bit, too, and you

2:45:44know, we walked up the sundial up at

2:45:46Hamilton Rod and Gun Club and then

2:45:47>> Oh, sure. Yeah, we got that, yeah.

2:45:49>> yeah.

2:45:50But, you know, it's a lot. Okay, let me

2:45:52run through some of this other stuff.

2:45:54Pumpkin Walks tomorrow night.

2:45:56It's going to be a lot of fun. I have 24

2:46:00pumpkin submissions, which is more than

2:46:02double the what I had last year. So, I'm

2:46:04excited. It's going to be cold, but it's

2:46:05going to be fun.

2:46:06Election Day is November 3rd. If you

2:46:10haven't picked up your ballot book, go

2:46:12to the town clerk. Also, ask about

2:46:14question 10, that is not in the ballot

2:46:17book, but there's

2:46:19a really good conservation bill on

2:46:20there, too, that everyone should look

2:46:21at. But, Election Day, November 3rd,

2:46:24we'll have the table display down at the

2:46:25host, like we did last year.

2:46:26>> Early voting is still open.

2:46:28>> Hm?

2:46:29>> Early voting

2:46:29>> Early voting is still open, yep.

2:46:31Um Your Land, Your Legacy,

2:46:33November 12th, from 4:30 to 6:30 at the

2:46:36Senior Center. Um we're sending direct

2:46:40mail to everyone who lives in town with

2:46:42large parcels. I've got more land

2:46:45trusts. Um Luke might be there as well,

2:46:48just kind of help answer some like legal

2:46:49questions. Um we've got Mass Audubon

2:46:52coming this year, too, and Last Green

2:46:54Valley. So, that's going to be a really

2:46:56good seminar.

2:46:58Special Town Meeting, Monday, November

2:47:0016th.

2:47:01Um the solar

2:47:03regulations are on there and the CPC

2:47:07request for Doughty's on there.

2:47:09I don't remember what else is on it.

2:47:10Special Town Meeting, so it's not, you

2:47:12know, budget and everything, yeah.

2:47:14Um and then just with the

2:47:18shift transitions,

2:47:20the 9th,

2:47:22I will not be here and then we're closed

2:47:24for Veterans Day and then I'll be gone

2:47:27for the rest of that week in North

2:47:28Carolina.

2:47:29And then the 25th will be closing at

2:47:34noon until for

2:47:37Thanksgiving week there.

2:47:40Um

2:47:42Even I mean I might have someone hired

2:47:44by then, but

2:47:46they'd be very very green potentially.

2:47:49Um

2:47:51That's what I've got. Pick a site visit

2:47:52day.

2:47:55Uh

2:47:56>> Yeah.

2:47:57So, we don't have another meeting till

2:47:58the 24th.

2:47:59>> Don't have another meeting till the

2:48:0024th. So far that the deadline's not not

2:48:03till November for November 3rd. So far

2:48:05all I have is

2:48:07um

2:48:07uh

2:48:09small addition and deck replacement on

2:48:11Ladd Road.

2:48:13>> Okay.

2:48:14I like 17.

2:48:1717th?

2:48:18>> Tuesday the 17th?

2:48:19>> think I'll go. I have a I'll be in a

2:48:21class.

2:48:22>> Well, then what would be a good day for

2:48:23you?

2:48:25>> Um

2:48:25>> So, are you saying the next meeting is

2:48:27on the

2:48:28>> 24th? I think you're not able to make it

2:48:30to that one right now. Oh, because he

2:48:32said five.

2:48:34No, it's still at six.

2:48:35>> It's still at six.

2:48:36>> All right.

2:48:36>> I will try to make it.

2:48:37>> Okay.

2:48:38>> Thursday the 10th?

2:48:42Tuesday?

2:48:43>> Yeah. Thursday the 5th, Tuesday the

2:48:4510th, Tuesday the 17th, Monday the 23rd.

2:48:48>> Oh, okay.

2:48:49>> Which is obviously like right before the

2:48:50meeting.

2:48:50>> want to do the 10th? Is that what you're

2:48:51saying?

2:48:52Tuesday the 10th?

2:48:53>> I can do the 10th. I can do the

2:48:55I'd like to do the 17th, but if you

2:48:57can't

2:48:57>> I can I can miss it. I mean I

2:48:59>> No, I don't want to miss it.

2:49:00>> 10th?

2:49:02>> 10th of November?

2:49:06>> No.

2:49:08Time flies when you having fun.

2:49:09>> The 10th, yes?

2:49:12Um and then

2:49:14uh

2:49:15152 Main is back on.

2:49:18And

2:49:20you'll not be able to vote on that.

2:49:23But you'll be able to participate in

2:49:24this

2:49:26I know you were here in the audience for

2:49:28one of those meetings. But

2:49:31>> That doesn't count.

2:49:32>> No.

2:49:33Well, if it had only been one but it's

2:49:34already but we've had two hearings on it

2:49:36already. So if it was only one he'd be

2:49:38able to do the form but

2:49:42if [music] you miss more than one public

2:49:45hearing for a specific project you are

2:49:48ineligible to vote.

2:49:49>> Even as a okay that's good to know.

2:49:51One you can sign a form two or more

2:49:53you're ineligible to vote. Started 9:00

2:49:55a.m. for that.

2:49:56>> 9:00 a.m. yeah.

2:50:01>> At this point we don't have anything for

2:50:02the hours but all right at this point we

2:50:04don't have anything for the site visit

2:50:06yet or are we doing that? I have one

2:50:08I've got it's on Lad Road. It's a pretty

2:50:10it's a straightforward project on Lad

2:50:11Road.

2:50:12>> Motion to close.

2:50:13>> I'm making motion to adjourn.

2:50:15>> Second. All in favor.

2:50:17>> I second the motion.

2:50:18>> Third.

2:50:19All in favor.

2:50:21Great.

2:50:24>> Lovely.

2:50:25I've got 37 applications so far for an

2:50:29assistant agent.

2:50:30>> Awesome.

2:50:30>> So I've been sifting through those.

2:50:34>> I'll try to talk to you. I'm not good

2:50:36with emails right now.

2:50:38I'm about

2:50:40>> She came in on Monday and met and I've

2:50:43got her started on some basic stuff and

2:50:46she was very excited. Yeah. She came

2:50:47after the class to tell me how excited

2:50:49she was. She's been awesome. I'm hoping

2:50:51I get to keep her around for the next

2:50:52two years.

2:50:53>> Oh good.

2:50:54>> So she's a next student of yours? She's

2:50:56my current student which I did not know

2:51:00when I chose her. I didn't know she was

2:51:02her student until I interviewed her.

2:51:04>> Where do you teach?

2:51:05>> At Clark.

2:51:06>> Clark? So she said she was Westfield

2:51:09State. What?

2:51:09>> Oh no she has another one at Worcester

2:51:11State.

2:51:12I have another one at Worcester State

2:51:13yeah.

2:51:14My leak person is Worcester State.

2:51:16>> So landscape ecology?

2:51:18>> No this class is advanced raster GIS. We

2:51:23do spatial analysis to

2:51:26map connectivity

2:51:28looking at trends in temperature.

2:51:31>> Cool.

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