2026-10-15 - Joint Planning & Development Subcommittee and Town Council

00:00Okay, it being 636, I'll call the meeting

00:04to order and I'm looking for a motion

00:07to approve the minutes of September the 2nd.

00:11So moved.

00:13I'll second.

00:15We have a motion and a second.

00:17Nobody's online.

00:23Any discussion on any corrections?

00:26That was September 2nd.

00:28Did you say?

00:28Yeah.

00:29Yep.

00:30I hope I think I was here I

00:32should look at the minutes.

00:38I don't know if she was.

00:41I was here on the 2nd.

00:45I'm not sure.

00:48I don't think Terry was here.

00:50Because I remember you coming in and I

00:51thought the last meeting says, oh I didn't.

00:54Maybe it was a month ago.

00:55No, I might not have.

00:56I'm getting very forgetful.

01:01Yeah.

01:38Everybody was here.

01:41Myself, Mike.

01:43Mike.

01:45Sandy and Terry.

01:47And Abe.

01:49Good.

01:51So any corrections?

01:53All those in favor of the minutes?

01:55It is recorded.

01:56Unanimous.

01:57All those present?

01:59So now I need a motion for September

02:02the 16th.

02:08Technically I was in the crowd.

02:09Oh, that's right.

02:10So Sandy?

02:12Yep.

02:12You're going to make a motion?

02:13Yes, I do make a motion for the

02:15minutes of September 16th.

02:17I'll second it.

02:18And so that was for both parts of

02:20it, right?

02:21Yes.

02:22Right.

02:25And well, there was none of us here.

02:27So any corrections to those minutes?

02:30Not from me.

02:31Not from me.

02:32Hearing none.

02:33All those in favor?

02:34Those minutes are approved.

02:37Any ayes?

02:39No.

02:41Site plan review for 476 Worcester Street.

02:45I'll make a motion to continue this hearing

02:49per the applicant's request for 476 Worcester Street

02:56until November 4th at 645.

03:02I'll second.

03:04Motion to second.

03:06Discussion?

03:07Hearing none.

03:08All those in favor?

03:09Unanimous.

03:11And we can't do anything until 650.

03:18Staff update?

03:21Sure.

03:22For Worcester Poly.

03:22So as far as the WPI, we should

03:29have the staff representative on after 730.

03:35She's going to do it virtually.

03:37Oh, tonight?

03:38Okay.

03:38Then we'll wait on that.

03:45We can start going over some of this.

03:48Well, is there any other staff update?

03:51So I think two things.

03:55One, we're currently working on if there's any

04:03additional updates we should be adding to the

04:07solar and battery regarding the permitting process.

04:12Based on how these new consolidated permits are

04:15structured.

04:16I haven't finished anything yet, but I will

04:22hopefully bring something through.

04:25You get that consolidated permitting?

04:29Yeah.

04:30I don't know if it's more

04:40helpful to include it in the bylaw or

04:42if it should be a regulations thing.

04:47I'm not sure at this point.

04:49You know, the thing is that if somebody

04:53is proponing a project, you know, like say

04:57a Cumberland Farms or something, what they're going

05:00to do is they're going to, I mean,

05:02or something like that.

05:04They're going to look at the bylaw.

05:06Probably better for the regulation, right?

05:07I would rather do it as you mentioned

05:10it to the latest expedited permit regulation and

05:18put it in a regulate.

05:20In other words, so we don't have to

05:22go to town council to change it every

05:23time if it changes and stuff.

05:25We want to put it in a reg.

05:28But if you want to be user friendly,

05:30you want people to know exactly what they

05:32have to do.

05:33Yeah, but we don't want to put it

05:37as a zoning.

05:38It'll be written in our reg, but we

05:40don't want to put it in zoning because

05:42just reference that expedited permitting is in accordance

05:47with such and such a regulation in our

05:51planning board regulations.

05:53This way here, it's still spelled out.

05:55The applicant can go to the regulations, but

05:57if say we want to change something in

05:59that expedited permitting, it doesn't work out or

06:02something, we could do the modifications on the

06:05lower level and it doesn't have to go

06:06back up to town council.

06:08Well, as long as they can see that

06:11there are regulations and as long as they

06:13know what it means.

06:16I mean, I can see the point.

06:18Sure, I can definitely see the point.

06:20It's neater and cleaner.

06:21It seems to belong in the regs.

06:23It does.

06:23But I just, you know, you would just

06:25hate for somebody to look at the regs.

06:28The problem is, if someone's doing a project

06:31and they read it in the regs according

06:32to the reg, they're going to go and

06:33find the reg and see what the reg

06:35is.

06:35But they might just look at the zoning

06:37bylaw, which some of them do.

06:38Our zoning bylaw is going to reference it.

06:41Yes.

06:41And what's also complicated about it is that

06:44because the permits are going to be across

06:47multiple boards, so if one permit could end

06:52up going to planning and zoning, It's the

06:56dumbest thing the state's ever done.

06:59But a lot of it is established by

07:01them, so a lot of it can just

07:03reference what they're requesting.

07:08And what I find most frustrating is that

07:11they have an online application that they're saying

07:17you're going to have to use, but they

07:18did not have it ready for use on

07:21the day that their permitting started seven days

07:23ago.

07:24So we don't know how long that's going

07:26to be before they have it, but we're

07:28supposed to comply.

07:30There's something they don't have.

07:32Yeah.

07:34I think that's almost stepping on the town's

07:38toes.

07:39It is.

07:40For everybody to have to use the same

07:42applications.

07:44Why don't we just not have any towns,

07:47just be part of a big Commonwealth of

07:49Mass?

07:50That's what they're looking at.

07:51I guess so.

07:53There's no more thing as Home Rural Charter

07:55anymore.

07:57Apparently.

07:59Well, I'll stop complaining now.

08:01Yeah.

08:03Won't do us any good.

08:05No, but the thing is...

08:05Or Cage is the one that has to

08:06deal with it the most.

08:08Yeah, and it's going to be a nightmare

08:09trying to...

08:13It's not going to expedite anything.

08:15The planning board is going to do their

08:17due diligence on it, and then the conservation

08:20is going to do their due diligence and

08:22everything else.

08:22So, I mean, it's not going to really

08:24expedite anything.

08:25No.

08:26All it's going to do is maybe save

08:28a permit fee.

08:29Well, the other thing is, when I was

08:33working with the Economic Development Commission, they were

08:38trying to address the problem that we had

08:41heard, that you go to the town hall

08:45because you want to do this, so they

08:48tell you you need this.

08:51And then when you finish with that, they

08:53say you need this and you need that.

08:55And it's happened to a lot of people

08:57because they came in and told me.

08:59So I think it will eliminate that.

09:01And that could be one of the reasons

09:03why they've initiated it.

09:08Well, no, it's political.

09:09It's why they're doing it.

09:11I guess all things are political.

09:13But the thing is, no, because the permitting

09:17is going to go through land use, zoning,

09:21planning, conservation, that stuff.

09:23That's not the stuff.

09:25It's the other stuff.

09:26Your Board of Health, well, maybe Board of

09:27Health too.

09:28Okay.

09:28Oh, this isn't going to go for…

09:30But now you've got Board of Health.

09:32But now you've got your fire permits and

09:34stuff like that.

09:35It's not all going to be on one

09:36form, I don't think.

09:39There's no way you can do that.

09:40I guess I was thinking it was.

09:43I don't think there's any way.

09:44I'm working on it.

09:45I don't think there's any way you can

09:47do it.

09:47Well, it would be a pretty thick…

09:49Go to fire, police, this, this, this, and

09:52pass it around.

09:53I mean, it's going to take as long

09:54as…

09:55I hate to say it.

09:56I don't know why.

09:58When I used to do site plans, I

10:00used to just come to the planning board.

10:02You did your homework, went to the police

10:04chief, got him to write a letter, went

10:07to the fire chief, got him to write

10:08a letter, and made sure Sandy had them

10:11before the hearing.

10:13I don't know why people…

10:14What's so hard about permitting a site?

10:18There isn't.

10:19This is the easiest town in the state

10:20to permit it.

10:22But the state's looking at other towns.

10:24Yeah.

10:24Yeah.

10:25This is the easiest town in the state

10:27to permit it.

10:29I'll tell you the most complicated permitting that

10:34I ever did was the hotel and conference

10:37center.

10:37And then the worst one, they were proposing

10:41a tower, a cell tower on Eastward Road.

10:46Do you remember that?

10:47It wasn't that awful.

10:48Were you on board at that time?

10:50Yeah.

10:50The kids were…

10:51One neighbor who said his kids were going

10:53to…

10:53Die?

10:54Climb into the steam…

10:55Yeah, climb it.

10:56With a razor wire on top, and they

10:58were going to get hurt.

10:59Yeah.

10:59Yeah.

11:00Trying to climb over the fence, they were

11:02going to get hurt.

11:02And then there was another bad one that

11:04you may have heard about, the guy that

11:06was going to make handmade wooden coffins.

11:09Oh, yeah.

11:10I remember.

11:11And where somebody…

11:12That was the nastiest one, I think.

11:13That was nasty, but I remember somebody was

11:18really ridiculous.

11:20She said, our children on snowy days play

11:25in that cul-de-sac and make snow

11:27angels.

11:29And now he's going to be driving his

11:31coffins around.

11:32Keep your kids out of the road.

11:34I thought, you and I are admitting that

11:36you let your child do that in the

11:39cul-de-sac.

11:40Just on the other end, I've had permitting

11:42I've done in the past where I've told

11:45the people that I'm going to be a

11:47baby killer and everything else.

11:49I mean, some of these audiences can get

11:53really nasty.

11:54Well, yeah.

11:55Remember, what was her name?

11:57She lived on Denison Hill Road.

11:59And she said, remember?

12:03And her husband?

12:04Yeah, whatever the name is, it's bygones.

12:07She was a nurse.

12:10Yeah, I know who you're talking about, but

12:11I don't want to bring up any names

12:13for the TV.

12:14Yeah, we shouldn't anyway.

12:17But I know who you're talking to.

12:19You know what?

12:20People have, people get a passion, and they'll

12:23pull out anything they can.

12:25And you're going to see some of that.

12:27You're seeing some of that with the data

12:28centers.

12:29You're seeing some of that with battery storage

12:32and stuff like that.

12:32You're going to see some of that.

12:34But that's why you've got to look at

12:37the facts and the history.

12:40Well, it was frustrating to me at that

12:43public hearing.

12:45I really would have thought that everybody would

12:50have been happy to say, I'm glad that

12:53you're voting on a moratorium.

12:58I'm for that because I think a lot

13:00of studying needs to be done.

13:02Well, they just want to stop.

13:03They don't want a moratorium.

13:04They just want to know.

13:05Instead, they're lecturing us about— Because they want

13:09to know.

13:11But, I mean, until we study it and

13:13do the facts, and hopefully this WPI thing

13:16works well, we're going to do our homework,

13:19and that's what we're charged to do.

13:26So who's coming on board?

13:28I noticed they cut the grass at the

13:31Extra Mart.

13:32I don't know if you mentioned that, but

13:34they did clean it up and put mulch

13:36in and everything else.

13:39But the one that needed the— I brought

13:42up a couple meetings ago about the— They

13:45haven't mowed the lawn in ages and everything

13:48else.

13:50Maybe they did it on their own because

13:51if you don't remember— Which Extra Mart?

13:55The one on East Main Street.

13:57Okay, it's not Extra Mart anymore.

13:59It's just mobile.

14:00Yeah, something else.

14:01But they took the weeds out.

14:02They put all new mulch down and everything

14:04else.

14:04Now we just got to get Boston Gas

14:05to clean up the front of theirs.

14:08If we could ask them to somehow.

14:11Because that's their nuisance right there.

14:15How about a lot that's crossing the fire

14:17station that's empty?

14:20It's got a fence all around it.

14:21There's going to be a restaurant.

14:25Oh, yeah.

14:27Yeah, that one too.

14:29Oh, that one.

14:30Yeah.

14:31I think a lot of people wanted that

14:34restaurant.

14:35Hello.

14:36Hi.

14:40The other thing is our site on School

14:47and West has got another trailer and a

14:51Vezna vehicle on the trailer now.

14:54There's five vehicles on there plus storage.

14:57Yeah, and now the fence is half gone.

14:59Yeah.

15:00But where can we get a formal reply

15:04from them?

15:04I went to see the town manager about

15:06it.

15:06Okay.

15:07Good for you, Dave.

15:09We've got to get a formal reply.

15:11Yep, yep, that's it.

15:13Can I see?

15:14That's sitting in the lot right now.

15:16Five vehicles, five vehicles, and the fence along

15:19the edge is gone.

15:25One, two, three, four, five vehicles on the

15:28lot.

15:28Yep.

15:30Do you all have registration?

15:33No.

15:37Well, no applicant?

15:41Do we need an applicant?

15:42For what, $650?

15:44Yeah, okay.

15:50We should probably postpone it then.

15:54Reschedule it, sorry.

16:00Reschedule it for 730.

16:02Let's wait until 7 o'clock.

16:06No, it's $650 for Kate, 7 o'clock

16:09for us.

16:10Oh.

16:12Yeah.

16:14But Kate's not here, right?

16:15No.

16:16Yeah, so let's wait until 659 or whatever,

16:23and then we'll postpone it and give her

16:25some chance to come.

16:26I think you're supposed to reschedule it and

16:28not open it.

16:29No, we can't open it, but we can.

16:32But you should reschedule it.

16:34Yeah, to a time designated.

16:36Right.

16:37Then they don't have to.

16:38Or as Florence said, a time certain.

16:40Oh, yeah.

16:43We had something supposedly happening at 650.

16:47But they're not here.

16:47Yeah, it's not here.

16:49So are you 7 o'clock?

16:52Yes.

16:52Okay, well, we'll have to wait until 7.

16:58The other zoning question, and maybe this is

17:01for more discussion later, but we had a

17:04question from the building about permanent food trucks.

17:10Because there's an ongoing question about Delizia's set

17:16up a truck on East Main, which, I

17:19mean, it's fine.

17:20They can put their truck wherever, but they

17:21have asked about a permanent carport.

17:25Okay, that questions the building about that that's

17:29not permitted in the bylaw.

17:30No, it's not.

17:31Are they going to use services at all?

17:34Water or sewer?

17:36Or are they just sitting there?

17:38There is no water and sewer on that

17:40site right now.

17:41There could be, but...

17:43I mean, it was a restaurant.

17:44It was, but...

17:45So it's sort of like...

17:46It must exist on the ground.

17:47But the thing is, it's a mobile...

17:49I'm just wondering if they were using any

17:50services.

17:50It's a mobile unit.

17:51Theoretically, these mobile units should...

17:54There's so many days, and they've got to

17:55move and come back.

17:56They can't be sitting there.

17:58I don't know.

17:59Yeah, and so I don't necessarily know who

18:02enforces that, if that's a health question.

18:06So they...

18:08I mean, they're...

18:09They have permitted the actual...

18:13Can I see your zone?

18:15I don't think we have anything in there

18:16for them.

18:17I think it's in use.

18:21I was telling Katie that we were at,

18:24I think it was in Moab, where they

18:27had a pavilion all set up, and they

18:31had food trucks on three sides.

18:34So people...

18:34Oh, I agree.

18:35It was a nice...

18:37Because if you didn't have money for a

18:38restaurant...

18:39But most of the food trucks left at

18:41night.

18:41They did.

18:42No, no, this is permanent.

18:43Oh, really?

18:43I mean, probably all winter, all summer long,

18:45they were there.

18:46No, they did not move.

18:48They were cheek to cheek.

18:51No, it almost...

18:52No pulling them out.

18:53Almost sounds like those...

18:56There are towns that have...

18:59All over the world, in fact, that have

19:01kitchens for small people to share if they

19:07are producing something.

19:09Yeah, this was something the town set up,

19:11then the food trucks just became three sides,

19:13and...

19:14That's what community kitchens are all about.

19:15Yeah, it's kind of nice, you know?

19:16Yeah, it does sound like it.

19:18Maybe we should create a use like that.

19:21Maybe somebody would build it.

19:30And while you're sitting, let me tell you

19:33that we're a five-member board.

19:36For a special permit, you need four positive

19:40votes.

19:43There aren't five of us sitting here tonight.

19:45So you have the option, before I open

19:47it, to say that you'll wait until there's

19:50five of us.

19:52We have two members that are missing tonight,

19:54and we have one alternate.

19:56So I can appoint him.

19:58These could be your four positive votes, or

20:02you could decide to wait until there's more

20:06of us here, which would be in two

20:08weeks.

20:10So it's up to you, one way or

20:12the other.

20:12It's your choice.

20:14Either roll the dice, or...

20:16And if you don't get a positive vote,

20:21then it's two years, unless you do something

20:24completely different when you ask.

20:28I mean, I guess if we're following all

20:29the regulations and the requirements, there wouldn't be

20:33a number?

20:36It's four chickens, I mean.

20:38Yeah.

20:40Well, then what?

20:42Well, I can't give you a straw vote.

20:44That's okay.

20:45No, I just don't know what prompts the

20:49yeses versus noes.

20:50I'm not familiar with the voting process.

20:51Yeah, well, one of the noes could be

20:54the audience.

20:57Nope.

20:58I don't see anybody out there.

21:00Well, and the thing is, they don't have

21:02a vote in it.

21:02They can speak their piece or whatever else,

21:05but we're still the four people that are

21:08voting.

21:08All right.

21:09I'm just saying, you don't look like you

21:11have an opposition, unless somebody shows up at

21:14four or seven o'clock screaming and hollering.

21:18You do have to sign in, though.

21:20Yeah, sign in and then just let me

21:23know before seven o'clock which way you

21:25want to go.

21:25It being 6.58, I'll make a motion

21:29to continue, or no, to postpone and reschedule

21:36the 6.50 hearing for Kate Johnson to

21:41November 4th at 7.00. Are we not

21:48doing a second?

21:50Oh, there isn't.

21:51Oh, what's a second meeting in October?

21:52I'm sorry, until October.

21:56Okay.

21:57The 21st will be the third.

22:00October 21st at 6.45. Okay, 21st, 6

22:06.45, all right.

22:09I'll second.

22:13Oh, you got a point.

22:15I'm not going to hear.

22:16Oh, you're not going to be here?

22:19Then November 4th.

22:21Well, I mean, Mike would be there.

22:24Mike would be there and we've got Arnold.

22:25He's got Arnold and he's still alive.

22:26I think we'll be fine.

22:27Okay.

22:28Yeah, I'm not here then.

22:30Yeah, that'll be fine.

22:31I'm in South Carolina at a wedding.

22:34Oh, my, it'll be warm.

22:36That'll be nice.

22:37Okay, so it's a motion.

22:39Do I have a second?

22:40Sandy seconded.

22:41I seconded.

22:42Discussion?

22:42None?

22:43All those in favor?

22:44Okay.

22:46Okay.

22:46Kate, you're coming in later on.

22:49So, Katie, that would be that we are

22:53rescheduling to that date.

22:57Okay.

22:59Do you want to go forward with your

23:037.00?

23:04Yes.

23:05Then come in the electric chair, please.

23:09That's the one we've got.

23:10You know what?

23:11That's the one we got wired, so.

23:15I could also, you could use this roll.

23:19Okay.

23:19Do you want me to read it?

23:20Yeah, go ahead, please.

23:22In accordance with the provisions of NGL Chapter

23:2548, Section 11, the Southbridge Planning Board will

23:28hold a public hearing on Wednesday, October 7th,

23:312026 at 6.50. Why do I get

23:35the 6.50 p.m. one?

23:38No, I got Keith Johnson's.

23:39You get the other one.

23:42At 7.00 p.m. in the G

23:45.A.R. Hall, lower level, Town Hall, 41

23:48Elm Street, Southbridge.

23:49The purpose of the public hearing is to

23:50consider a special permit application in accordance with

23:53Table 1 of the Southbridge Zoning By-law

23:55as filed by Tiger Gillespie for a keeping

24:00of livestock under five acres located at 249

24:04Pleasant Street, Map 19, Lot 6.

24:08Tiger Gillespie, owner.

24:09The application and plan are on file for

24:14review during business hours of the town clerk.

24:17This notice is also published electronically on www

24:20.ma.mypublicnotices.com.

24:25Any person interested in wishing to be heard

24:27on the application should appear at the time

24:29and place designated.

24:31Signed, David Payer, Chairman.

24:35Okay, so state what you want to do.

24:39I was – Your name first.

24:41I'm Tiger Gillespie.

24:43We just want to house our 106th flock

24:46of female chickens on our property in the

24:49coop.

24:50So there's going to be six?

24:52Five.

24:54Five.

24:54Five chickens.

24:58What have you got there for sure?

25:00We've got the coop built with all the

25:03requirements that we met with it and some

25:06other things, and then this is the front

25:09door.

25:11Go back and get there.

25:13This is the lock.

25:15This is the other side of the coop

25:17in which all the stuff is housed.

25:19We added partitioning too just to help block

25:22it from our neighbor's yard so that there's

25:24a wall between the coop and our neighbors,

25:26even though it's around 35 feet the wall

25:29is from the property line.

25:31Okay.

25:34Have you gone to the Board of Health

25:36at all or talked to them?

25:38All the permitting requirements we pushed through, like

25:43other permitting stuff.

25:46All right.

25:47You know that you've got to have your

25:48feet and metal cans and all that and

25:50things like that.

25:55Yeah, it's like – yeah, they've got to

25:58be in metal.

25:58They can't be in plastic.

26:00I know that.

26:01But that's the Board of Health rig.

26:02That's not ours.

26:04The vice will dig through.

26:05They're off the ground.

26:07Sorry.

26:09I'll double-check with them.

26:10Just double-check with them.

26:14Okay.

26:17Do we have the text map on that?

26:19Where is it?

26:23Looks like it's in your backyard.

26:25Yeah, see, because you had to feed everything

26:26in plastic.

26:27I thought it was metal.

26:29I thought it had to be in metal

26:30too.

26:31Maybe I'm mistaken.

26:34Maybe it might change.

26:37Yeah, it is risen a foot off the

26:39ground.

26:39It's a little hard to tell, but originally

26:41that's what we were told.

26:42If that's not the case, we can go

26:44double-check with them and maybe see if

26:46I was mistaken.

26:47I think you should regularly check in with

26:50them because they'll always lead you in the

26:52right direction, and they're the ones that would

26:55come down on you if they found a

26:56– you know, so.

26:59Yeah, communicate with them.

27:01Plenty of area.

27:01They're your friends.

27:03All right, so that's it right there.

27:07So there's Hillcrest.

27:08There's that.

27:09That's a house right down in there.

27:11You got the – No.

27:15No, the aerial view, the photo view.

27:20Oh, sure.

27:27So where would the coop be?

27:30Right down in the back of that shed

27:32right there?

27:32Mm-hmm.

27:34Which is a shed right on the –

27:38right there, that shed right there?

27:40Mm-hmm.

27:40Oh, so it's right down.

27:42That's below the road, isn't it?

27:43Yes.

27:44The roof of the coop is below the

27:46road.

27:46Below the road.

27:47The roof of the coop is below the

27:48road right there.

27:49Oh, okay.

27:49But it's covered by the shed too.

27:51And that's a preexisting shed because it is

27:55in the front zoning setback?

27:57And the side, though.

27:58And the side, most likely.

28:00But that shed, I know where that –

28:03I've driven by this a bunch of times,

28:06and I've always seen that shed, the roof

28:07of it.

28:11And your neighbor right there below you, you

28:16said you're going to put a wall back

28:17there?

28:18So there's a wall here to block the

28:21whole coop from that side.

28:23We also planted – I put it on

28:25one of them.

28:25Yeah, I saw the trees.

28:26To help cover anything as well.

28:30Yeah.

28:30That was a good idea.

28:32And then we made sure it was at

28:34least 20 feet, but it's between 20 and

28:3730 feet away from where the property line

28:39actually ends.

28:40Yeah.

28:40Okay.

28:41That's good.

28:42Yeah.

28:43No, I mean, you said five?

28:47Mm-hmm.

28:47Yeah.

28:48You won't have any trouble.

28:49And we scoop it daily and stuff like

28:50that.

28:51You won't have any trouble with five in

28:53there.

28:53Do you have any idea, an idea that

28:57you might at some point put a fence

29:02outside so they could sort of peck at

29:05the grass and stuff?

29:07So this is the fence we want to

29:08keep them in because there's bobcats and stuff

29:10in the area.

29:11We really don't want to extend the area.

29:13Say no more.

29:14They have 80 square feet in there.

29:17We routinely replace the sand and stuff like

29:19that.

29:20They barely take up a corner of it

29:21right now.

29:22So if it becomes, like, where they seem

29:25like they're encapsulated.

29:28You know what?

29:29They like to get seeds and insects in

29:32the grass.

29:33So maybe they'd get them in the sand.

29:35I don't know.

29:35Yeah, so we've done a few.

29:38There's, like, play things you can do with

29:41them.

29:41So you can, like, give them blocks to

29:43peck at and stuff.

29:43They have a swing, too, in the coop.

29:45You can't really see it, but it's, like,

29:46a wooden stick swing they can play on.

29:48So there's a few enhancement things in there

29:49for them to be able to, like, do

29:50stuff with.

29:50The other thing, when you rake leaves or

29:53grass mowing, as long as you don't have

29:56any pesticides in your lawn, just throw the

29:58leaves in there.

29:59That's the bugs and stuff.

30:00They love that stuff.

30:02They love that.

30:03And the bobcats can't get in there.

30:05And the other thing, too, is freeze a

30:09watermelon, okay, in the summer.

30:13Just put a frozen watermelon in there.

30:15It will take all day, but then you

30:18won't have nothing left.

30:20Just cut it in half, and the rind

30:23will be that thin.

30:24I mean, it will just clean it right

30:25up.

30:26We've got a pumpkin for them for the

30:27Halloween season.

30:29I've had them, and I've watched.

30:31It's amazing some of the stuff you can

30:32do.

30:33So for the record, I'm appointing Arnold Buffalo

30:35-Saison as a member of the planning board

30:38for tonight's public hearing.

30:40Yep.

30:41So that we are a four-member board

30:42here.

30:44Okay.

30:48Anything else?

30:49Anybody have a board?

30:52What are the questions we usually ask?

30:54It's been a while since we had one.

30:56Oh, about what they're doing with the manure.

31:01So you clean the cage.

31:04Yeah, so it's a mix.

31:05We have a little area we're trying to

31:08start the compost in, but obviously that's going

31:10to be covered in snow come.

31:11So when we can get to it, we'll

31:13put it there.

31:13We'll have four seasonal bins for compost that

31:16we'll rotate in.

31:16But when we can't actually get to the

31:18compost, it'll go in bags in the trash.

31:21So unfortunately, snow prevents composting for some types

31:24of reasons.

31:26I know people that would buy that if

31:28it was composted for six months or more.

31:31Four chickens, the amount of compost you're going

31:33to have per week is probably going to

31:35be in a small bag.

31:37But you could mix it with those dried

31:39leaves.

31:41Potentially.

31:42You technically have to compost it for 12,

31:45otherwise you can grow bacteria and stuff in

31:46it.

31:47So we'll have four to do a 12

31:49-month cycle on them.

31:51That's a good thing.

31:52That's great.

31:54I don't have any questions.

31:58I'll make a motion to close the public

31:59hearing.

32:01Motion and a second.

32:03Discussion?

32:04You just want to make sure that you

32:06don't— I think it's important during the public

32:11hearing to say you can't have a rooster.

32:15Correct.

32:15Well, we're going to make that a hearing.

32:17Okay.

32:19Okay, all those in favor?

32:21We're closing the hearing.

32:25Want me to make a motion?

32:26Yeah.

32:27I'll make a motion to approve the special

32:31permit filed by Tiger Gillespie to keep chicken

32:37under five acres with the following conditions.

32:42Number one, that no roosters will be permitted.

32:46And I would do right now allow up

32:50to six chickens.

32:52Because after three years, they're going to stop

32:55laying.

32:56You're going to have to eat them or

32:58do something.

32:59And then you can only buy six at

33:02a time.

33:02You can buy six at a time at

33:04most places around.

33:05If you buy them at Tractor Supply or

33:07something, you've got to buy six.

33:11I would do up to six female hens.

33:14And a second condition will be that all

33:19local and state border health regulations be adhered

33:24to while keeping of the chickens.

33:30I can't think of anything else.

33:32The only thing I would say is, I

33:34don't know if we even need to make

33:36it a condition, but coordinate with the Board

33:38of Health as much as you can.

33:41Yeah, of course.

33:42We'll check in with them again.

33:43Yeah, I think that's why.

33:45I think it covers it by making sure

33:47that all local and state border health regulations.

33:50Right, but if they thought that they had

33:51done everything.

33:51But I think keeping in touch with them

33:53is important.

33:54We don't have to make it a condition.

33:56No.

33:56Do I have a second?

33:59I'll second.

34:01Motion to second.

34:04Discussion?

34:06Do we have to do that?

34:08We'll do it after, if we get it.

34:10Okay.

34:12All right, all those in favor?

34:16Sandy?

34:18Sandy does this the best.

34:20Well, I usually do it before we.

34:22Because technically.

34:24We should do it before the vote.

34:25Yeah, but we.

34:26Well, I'd like to.

34:29Okay.

34:29Before we find the findings that are appropriate.

34:32Okay, well these are the findings that we

34:34need to make in order to approve your

34:37permit.

34:38And basically, we're so used to doing this

34:41that we know what the findings are.

34:43But we'll put it in the record in

34:45case anybody ever challenged you.

34:47Okay.

34:48So the first one is that the use

34:50is in harmony with the general purpose and

34:53intent of this bylaw.

34:54This bylaw says you can get a permit

34:57to raise chickens under certain circumstances.

35:01You've done that.

35:03So that meets.

35:04So that meets finding number one.

35:07Finding number two, the use is in an

35:09appropriate location.

35:10Not detrimental to the neighborhood.

35:12Does not significantly alter the character of the

35:15zoning district.

35:17The use is appropriate because it's in the

35:20back of the house.

35:21In the back of that shed.

35:23You're putting trees to shield it.

35:25You put a wooden backing on the shed

35:29to shield it from the neighbors.

35:33So that finding has been made.

35:36The next one is adequate and appropriate facilities

35:39will be provided for the operation of the

35:41proposed use.

35:42You brought us some nice pictures.

35:45You showed us what you have.

35:48You're providing for them in the way you

35:50should.

35:50And that you have also told us that

35:53you have.

35:57Found out what is appropriate for taking care

36:01of chickens.

36:02So that one is paid.

36:04Number four, it won't be detrimental or otherwise

36:07offensive to the adjoining zoning districts and neighboring

36:11properties.

36:12Due to the effect of lighting, odors, smoke,

36:15noise, sewage, refuse materials of visual or other

36:19nuisances.

36:20So we talked about odors and refuse materials

36:24and you've satisfactorily answered those.

36:27So that finding has been made.

36:30Number five, the proposed use will not cause

36:33undue traffic congestion.

36:36Obviously you've made that one.

36:38Unless the chickens get loose.

36:40If they get through that lock I'd be

36:42very surprised.

36:43The proposed use is consistent with the Southbridge

36:46Master Plan.

36:46While the Master Plan doesn't talk about raising

36:53chickens.

36:53But it talks about making sure that residential

36:57areas are appropriate for residential uses.

37:03And we know that neighborhood is.

37:06So that finding has been made.

37:08And then the last one is, any other

37:11finding is sparsely required in this bylaw for

37:14specific uses.

37:18The only thing that we have that's a

37:22special finding.

37:23We've used that it will meet all the

37:25permitting requirements of all applicable agencies.

37:28And we've put that in as a condition.

37:32So you've made all the, we've made all

37:36the findings needed.

37:38Congratulations.

37:39Congratulations.

37:43Enjoy your eggs.

37:44Do you have copies of pictures for the

37:46record?

37:47You should keep them for the record.

37:48We'll keep them for the record.

37:49Just in case down the road.

37:58Oh yeah.

38:00Yeah.

38:01Right.

38:02Is that part of the application fee right

38:08now or not?

38:09No.

38:10No.

38:11So they would just have to.

38:14Our decision has to get recorded at the

38:16registry of deeds for a special permit.

38:18It has to be recorded.

38:20And there's a new process coming forward where.

38:22Because a lot of times we give the

38:25decision and rely on people to the applicant

38:28to record it.

38:31Never gets recorded.

38:32So we've started a new provision with the

38:35town with across multiple boards.

38:38Where now we send it into the registry

38:41of deeds.

38:42So there is an application fee that would

38:45have to be brought to Katie.

38:48To a check made out to the Worcester

38:51district registry or whatever.

38:53Or Commonwealth of Mass.

38:54Or Commonwealth of Mass.

38:55And then she sends it to the district

38:57registry of deeds to be recorded.

39:00So do you know what the fee is?

39:02It's $105.

39:04$105.

39:05Wow.

39:05So what I would do is you'll just

39:08have to bring a check made out to

39:13the Commonwealth of Mass.

39:14For $105 and then that decision would get.

39:17But that's after the 15 day appeal period.

39:1925.

39:2020 day appeal period.

39:21You have a 20 day appeal period after

39:23I sign this decision.

39:26It goes to the town clerk.

39:28And if anybody doesn't like what we did.

39:32You have to apply to the Supreme Court.

39:35So I know this is another fee on

39:37top of what you've already done.

39:39But the benefit of it is there's never

39:41a question of you being allowed to have

39:44this use on your property.

39:46Because the problem we run into with enforcement

39:49in Orange is that we have these.

39:51There's no records.

39:53And there is no record.

39:55So if five years from now someone were

39:58to question you have this record in the

40:01registry.

40:02Which is the law.

40:03You're supposed to do it.

40:05You would have had to do it anyway.

40:07But wow, it's gone.

40:08It didn't used to be.

40:10I just want to point out this is

40:11nearly $500 on this filing process.

40:14I know.

40:14This is very extensive.

40:18This is over $100 a chicken at this

40:20point.

40:20I know.

40:21You could have bought $500 worth of eggs

40:24for that.

40:24This process of just how many.

40:28The three permitting process plus all the filing

40:31fees.

40:32This is a lot.

40:34It is.

40:34It is.

40:35But the fact is that it's a legal

40:37process.

40:39Yeah, we don't have any say.

40:40It's supposed to be recorded.

40:44I'm a little taken aback just because when

40:47I initially asked about the process.

40:49I was told there was a $25 fee

40:51to file the initial permit.

40:52And then it's like, okay.

40:53And then there's another fee over here.

40:55And then you also have to send out

40:57a letters list.

40:58And then I just feel like every step

41:00of the way we have been told there

41:01is an additional fee.

41:02And the last one that we paid.

41:04I don't fault you for this.

41:06But I asked, is there more fees after

41:07this?

41:08And you're like, not that I'm aware of.

41:10Well, this is brand new.

41:12This is brand new, the application.

41:14But you would have had to pay this

41:15fee anyway.

41:16Right.

41:17By law.

41:17I guess I just wish there was an

41:19easier way.

41:19But the fee would have been not a

41:21fee from the planning board.

41:24It would have been, you would have had,

41:27your legal obligation would have been to record

41:29that.

41:30Right.

41:30But I think her point is, she wished

41:32she had known about this ahead of time.

41:35And I think that's fair.

41:37And even though it's hurting to you.

41:40It helps Katie and the rest of us

41:43understand that we need to make that known.

41:47There's just no one place you can go

41:49to find out all the fees and all

41:51the different pieces of the process.

41:54Like there's nowhere that says in this that

41:55you're supposed to file this decision with Reddit.

41:59Right.

42:00We probably should have something like that attached

42:03to our.

42:03It's in the special permit.

42:05It is in our regulations under special permits.

42:09Right.

42:09Okay.

42:10And is it attached to the application?

42:13Of course, the applications are changing now anyway.

42:15But I understand the point.

42:18I do too.

42:19I totally understand.

42:20And it's good for us to know that.

42:23And we're very sorry that it's been a

42:27little hit to you.

42:30But it is a legal process and we

42:33don't have permission to change and give you

42:38a break.

42:40No, I don't think it's that.

42:41I think it's just like.

42:43You want to know up front.

42:46We probably would not have bought the house

42:48with the chickens that we already owned, knowing

42:51it was this process to go through with

42:53the town.

42:54Like it's impossible to find all this information

42:57easily.

42:57What was the other fees?

42:59The $25 for the application.

43:00But what was the other fees?

43:01It's $150 for this.

43:03It was another $40 with the abutters.

43:06Oh, that's right.

43:07Did they charge you $50?

43:09It's something like that, yeah.

43:10It used to be $25.

43:13That's okay, it's still.

43:15Okay, so the application fee was $125.

43:19So the initial fee that I was charged

43:20was $75.

43:22Okay.

43:23The abutters was $25.

43:25There was another permitting process with the tax

43:28people.

43:29I think that was $25.

43:30This one was $150.

43:32Now there's $105.

43:34Altogether it's like between $400 and $500.

43:37What's the tax one then?

43:39I never ran across that one before.

43:42I heard that one before.

43:43For the sign-off from the tax collectors?

43:46I don't remember at this point.

43:48I just remember that there was part of

43:49the permit fee that was like $25 that

43:51I had to submit online that was specific

43:53for the tax research.

43:55We probably should have that all.

43:57We can attach it.

44:00But you know what?

44:02We're sitting on this side, you're sitting on

44:04that side.

44:05It's very helpful for you to say this

44:06because now we realize that we could do

44:09this to make things better.

44:11Can we take a generic like application, a

44:15special permit application like this or like a

44:18site special permit and list out exactly what

44:24the permit fees, what the costs are?

44:27Because I'll tell you one thing, I did

44:28not – I thought the abutters, this was

44:31only $25.

44:32It should be.

44:33If they charge you more than that, we

44:35have a question for assessors.

44:38But then she had other things that she

44:40listed.

44:41Yeah, like the other one for the tax

44:46collector.

44:46I didn't think there was a fee for

44:47that.

44:48No, there shouldn't be unless there was outstanding

44:51bar bill or taxes.

44:53If they charge you something that was –

44:55No, that's – For an application?

44:58Yeah, it was part of the first –

44:59I think that was actually the very first

45:01one I submitted.

45:02Was that for – Yeah, we should find

45:07out about that.

45:07We should find out.

45:11That doesn't sound right to me.

45:16No, but just so you know from our

45:18end, the last three years we were supposed

45:21to have been online and you probably did

45:24the online version for building.

45:26But we haven't gotten permission to build out

45:28our permit.

45:31The hope would be that all of that

45:33would become streamlined and you could see it

45:35all that way.

45:37But right now we're working with some of

45:39it's digital, some of it's paper, and all

45:41of it's frustrating.

45:43Well, the problem with the online one too

45:44is it says you guys are covered in

45:46that one.

45:47Like you pay the application fee and you

45:49guys are the last step in that one

45:50too.

45:51So that's why I was confused when I

45:52came in and I was like, oh, there's

45:53another application just for you guys because you

45:55guys are on the other application too.

45:57So it makes it seem like you guys

45:58are covered.

45:59Like I said, when I was initially told

46:02it was just that one and then it

46:03branched out to all the other things.

46:04So how come we're not online yet?

46:07Well, we don't want to be complicated like

46:09that.

46:15But if they were misled into thinking they

46:18were already on that first application all set

46:21with us, we shouldn't be charging the 125

46:24on top of that.

46:25Well, this was 150.

46:30The 150 is a standard fee.

46:32We've charged everybody right along.

46:35Yeah, because a regular special permit is more.

46:39The butters list.

46:43But is that required?

46:46Is that the certified butter?

46:48That's the $25.

46:50I agree for the list, but then you

46:51had to do the mailings?

46:52We did the mailings.

46:54And you used the little white receipt?

46:59Or is it just you certify you mailed

47:01it to the butters?

47:02No, so we did postcards.

47:03We're not required to do certified.

47:05Good, or just registered.

47:09So that saved a little bit compared to

47:11what it used to be.

47:13It used to be certified mail.

47:16Each butter had to be certified.

47:18I know.

47:19So advertising usually comes out to about 150.

47:22So for a livestock permit, it's literally just

47:26to cover the advertising.

47:28Yeah.

47:31Several years ago when I was doing the

47:33permitting, I asked the assessors for one of

47:39these livestock things.

47:44Do they have to pay?

47:47Could we give them a break?

47:50And what was his name, the assessor?

47:54Will.

47:54Will said, absolutely not.

47:57It takes time and they have to pay

48:00for it.

48:01So then I went to the newspaper, which

48:02used to be located next door, and I

48:05said, is there some wording we can use

48:09so that they won't have to pay so

48:11much?

48:12And she helped me do some wording.

48:15I don't know if we could find that

48:18in the old.

48:19But just for the livestock, because remember when

48:23we first had the bylaw, we had a

48:25lot of them.

48:27So that would help a little.

48:31Instead of 150, at that time it was

48:3535 or 40.

48:36Now it would probably be 50 or 60,

48:39but certainly not 150.

48:42And so what else is there?

48:46Well, the Commonwealth of Massachusetts, or the Worcester

48:51District Registry of Deeds, has upped their cost

48:55of registering to, what is it now?

48:58105.

48:59105.

49:00It used to be like 50,000.

49:02That's their cost.

49:03But the thing of it is, the point

49:05is, it would be nice to get the

49:07application and a listing of every single thing

49:10you have to do.

49:15Unfortunately, there's nothing that we can help you

49:18with on that.

49:19Noah, it's great.

49:20Noah, I'm glad you brought it up because

49:22now we can do the investigation.

49:25And also, if you can, do you have,

49:28like, did you write a check out to

49:29the assessor and the tax collector?

49:32My bank's not local.

49:33I had to go get cash for everything

49:34down the road.

49:36I had to walk back with all the

49:37cash in my hand.

49:38I was not very comfortable with that.

49:39Give Katie a list of how much you

49:41spent for each one so that we can

49:44check it ourselves.

49:45To see if they're being fair, the other

49:48people.

49:49I'm sure they are.

49:50Well, yeah.

49:51But, I mean, it's nice to know.

49:52It's nice to know.

49:53It would be nice to check.

49:54Yeah.

49:55Because a $50 rent-a-butter's list is

49:57outrageous, in my opinion.

49:59It used to be $25.

50:01Yeah.

50:01I mean, even $50.

50:03Especially now, it's all computerized.

50:06Years ago, it wasn't computerized.

50:09You used to have to go through, and

50:10they used to have to create the a

50:12-butter's list.

50:12Well, they have a way of doing it

50:14now, but it still takes a clerk in

50:16their office some time.

50:18So that's why he said no.

50:19About three weeks.

50:20It's 25.

50:21Yeah, I don't know.

50:22It took them three weeks to do that?

50:23Two to three weeks.

50:24And it's a five-minute thing?

50:25Yeah, I think it was two to three

50:26weeks.

50:26No, it's not five minutes, Mike, but it's

50:28not.

50:28Right now, with a GIS, it's five minutes.

50:32Well, they have to create them.

50:34No, it creates it automatically.

50:36Creates it automatically now, the list, on GIS.

50:40You just click the parcel and say circumference,

50:45and it'll give you a complete list and

50:47print it out.

50:47Well, I used to see her doing it,

50:49and it was a little different than that.

50:51But I don't do it, so I choose

50:53that.

50:54But that's before GIS.

50:55No, no, it was when we had the

50:57GIS, because she plotted it on the GIS

51:01and had a map with a circle.

51:04But anyway.

51:05Okay.

51:05We take your point, and we appreciate it.

51:08Yeah.

51:08So, I mean, if you could do that.

51:11I mean, no, it's the last step, but

51:13it's still got to go through the appeal

51:15period, so it doesn't have to be the

51:1720 days.

51:18And then the 20 day, you'll notify her

51:21that the 20 days is up?

51:23The clerk will.

51:24The clerk will.

51:25The clerk does, yep.

51:26Is that by e-mail?

51:27And then you could just…

51:29She'll mail it to you with the actual,

51:31like, copy of the decision?

51:34No, because you're going to keep the decision.

51:37No, we just keep a copy of it.

51:39No, because she's recording it.

51:40Oh.

51:42Sorry.

51:43The original.

51:44I should keep my mail.

51:46A copy of it.

51:46The actual copy of it.

51:48Yes.

51:49But the one with his signature on it

51:51goes to the registry.

51:52Yeah, so that's when you could just bring

51:54in a check to her for $105.

51:58Which is their cost.

52:00Which is the registry.

52:01It's nothing with the planning board.

52:02Yep.

52:04And they've gone out.

52:07All right.

52:08Sorry about that.

52:09You know what?

52:09Really, we've got to look on that because

52:11it's really not fair.

52:13They've got to know up front if we

52:16can figure out something on that.

52:22All right.

52:23You're all set.

52:24Thank you.

52:24You're all set.

52:24Thank you.

52:26Okay, so.

52:28Do you name your chickens?

52:30No, not yet.

52:31Eeny, meeny, miny, moe.

52:34Hi.

52:35I had one.

52:38Spring, summer, winter, and fall.

52:39Oh, that's cute.

52:41My daughter led her children when she first

52:43got her chickens.

52:44And my grandson, who was three at the

52:47time, named one of them Ed, which is

52:50my husband's name.

52:51One of them Sheepy.

52:54Okay, what have we got?

52:55All right.

52:56So, Laura, the board has a very baseline

52:59explanation of IQP.

53:02But if you want to give just the

53:06elevator pitch.

53:09Sure.

53:09Yeah.

53:10Hi.

53:10Thank you for having me join you.

53:12I'm Laura Roberts.

53:13I'm a professor at WPI in Worcester.

53:16And I work with students who are in

53:18their third year at WPI.

53:20And each of our students is required to

53:23do essentially a community-based research project that

53:26we call an Interactive Qualifying Project, or IQP

53:30is the term we throw around.

53:33But this is a pretty extensive team-based

53:36interdisciplinary project that the students work on for

53:39seven weeks full-time.

53:42And they receive preparation by taking a course

53:45beforehand that's a research methods course where they

53:48learn about interviewing, focus groups, observations, all different

53:52methods that might come in handy when doing

53:54their project.

53:55And so I run our Worcester Community Project

53:58Center.

53:58And so I'm always looking for projects in

54:02the local area for students to take on.

54:06Students have the option to travel to one

54:07of 50 project centers that WPI hosts around

54:10the world.

54:10But a lot of our students choose to

54:12stay locally.

54:14And so that's why I'm here tonight to

54:17talk to you about potentially partnering on a

54:19project with your town.

54:24Right.

54:26What we need is input on data centers.

54:30Because we're going to have a moratorium, possibly.

54:34And we'd like to have input from more

54:38disciplines, I guess you could say.

54:39And we do our own research here for

54:42whatever we can do.

54:43But having another source of information would be

54:47very helpful.

54:49And you prepared, I read a matrix of

54:53sort of what your thoughts were, how you

54:57can help.

54:58Yeah, so I brought up just a brief

55:00project description about how students on this project

55:04could work with you to do this, to

55:08do some of the research you're looking for.

55:10I was thinking a few things that they

55:12could do is conduct case studies of other

55:15municipalities.

55:16And how they've allowed data centers, both leveraging

55:21them for the benefit of the town.

55:24And also examining the possible downsides.

55:28I think there's potential economic benefits, maybe employment.

55:32But there's also a lot of infrastructure and

55:35utility demands with data centers.

55:38And environmental impacts.

55:41I've heard issues of noise.

55:44And so the students would look at case

55:46studies around the U.S. Of other towns

55:50that have embraced data centers.

55:54And look at public opinion, as well as

55:56how they are zoned.

56:00And then bring those case studies to you

56:02all.

56:03So that could involve archival research, but also

56:06interviews with local officials.

56:08That they might be able to get in

56:09touch with to learn more.

56:12And then I thought potentially they could conduct

56:14some interviews and surveys in the local Southbridge

56:17community.

56:18To better understand kind of residents' concerns and

56:21opinions about data centers.

56:24And then look at sort of Massachusetts general

56:28law.

56:29What's happening in the state house with regard

56:31to data centers.

56:33Because that affects local regulations as well.

56:37So that's kind of what I was thinking

56:38that they could do.

56:39And then put together a summary of all

56:41of this research.

56:42The case studies, the stakeholder perspectives, and zoning

56:45research.

56:46Could they also take that studies and sort

56:50of mesh in different zoning bylaws.

56:56And sort of give us an example.

56:58Like a model or an example byline we

57:02might want to look at to start with.

57:04Or something like that.

57:05Absolutely.

57:06Yeah.

57:07I can give you an example of the

57:08students.

57:09I had a group of students that worked

57:10with State Senator Jamie Eldridge on a project.

57:16That was looking at underground storage gasoline tanks.

57:19And oil spills that occurred from them.

57:23And at the time there was absolutely no

57:27funding to support a butters.

57:30If there was an oil spill that affected

57:32their pool.

57:33Or the specific case that they were looking

57:36at was a pool in Marlborough, Massachusetts.

57:38Where there had been an oil spill.

57:40And it had flooded the neighbors of the

57:42gas station's pool with oil.

57:44And then the neighbors couldn't get it remediated.

57:48The insurance people couldn't take care of it.

57:50They couldn't sell their home.

57:51Their property was worthless.

57:53And so they looked all over the United

57:55States at different legislative ways that this had

57:59been addressed.

58:01And part of what happened after this was

58:03the state actually created a fund that butters

58:07have access to now.

58:09So that they can get immediate relief in

58:12cleaning up an oil spill.

58:13Rather than having to wait for a long

58:15drawn out lawsuit to be settled.

58:18And then the state recoups those funds through

58:22legal action against the oil spiller.

58:25So those are the types of things that

58:27we've done in other neighborhoods.

58:29I think the students can definitely put together

58:31research and recommendations that they find from other

58:36municipalities.

58:37Both in Massachusetts.

58:41But also probably looking to other places.

58:45I'd like to look nationwide.

58:47Because yeah, Massachusetts.

58:49But I know they have some of this

58:52in other areas of the country.

58:54And sometimes you can bring in some ideas

58:57that in New England we're sort of tunnel

59:01visioned.

59:02And I think it would be nice to

59:04see some of the other responses.

59:08Sure.

59:08Yeah, absolutely.

59:09I had an idea too.

59:12Sometimes one of the things you mentioned was

59:15concerns of people in the community.

59:20And what I think is happening is that

59:24it's like people are saying things that are

59:29scary.

59:29And they sound terrible.

59:32But also it turns out that as this

59:37technology progresses, there are substitutions for things.

59:43So that those issues don't have to happen.

59:49And so it would be really good to

59:52find out what those are.

59:54Because we're going to be deliberating for a

59:58year.

59:58And if they pass the moratorium, we won't

1:00:02be accepting for at least a year.

1:00:05We can even ask for an extension to

1:00:07that.

1:00:08In the meantime, we could be disseminating information

1:00:13from your group that would make people feel

1:00:16more comfortable about it.

1:00:17I guess that's what I'm saying.

1:00:19Yeah.

1:00:20Yeah, absolutely.

1:00:21And the thing is too, part of it

1:00:23too, is social media and a lot of

1:00:28the data center stuff that's being presented is

1:00:31a lot of AI generated.

1:00:35And people are taking it as fact.

1:00:38And that's why it's to figure out facts

1:00:40from AI generated.

1:00:42Absolutely.

1:00:43There's a lot of AI generated ones that

1:00:45are...

1:00:47What type of time frame are you looking

1:00:49at?

1:00:49So time frame is I would have the

1:00:53students begin taking their on-campus preparatory class

1:00:57in January.

1:00:58So that course would be January.

1:01:00It would end around March 5th.

1:01:02And then they get a spring break.

1:01:04And so around mid-March, they would begin

1:01:06their on-site research and do the project

1:01:11in mid-March through the first week in

1:01:14May.

1:01:15That'd be perfect.

1:01:17Yes, it would be.

1:01:17That would be perfect.

1:01:19Okay.

1:01:20Yeah.

1:01:21And somewhat related, I'm actually...

1:01:23I direct our Montreal Project Center as well.

1:01:26And I have a call tomorrow with folks

1:01:29up there who are looking for a similar

1:01:31project to look at.

1:01:33Montreal has actually done a lot of embracing

1:01:35of data centers.

1:01:36And they have many in the area.

1:01:38So they wanted to have the students do

1:01:40some research to see what the benefits have

1:01:43been and if there's still lingering public concerns

1:01:47about them as well.

1:01:47Oh, that's ideal.

1:01:49It's nice that that research could be useful

1:01:51as well.

1:01:52Good, good.

1:01:53Yeah, that'd be really great.

1:01:54Everyone's thinking about this issue.

1:01:57You're right.

1:01:58Yeah.

1:01:59So what do we have to do on

1:02:00our part to get this started?

1:02:03So the first step was just making sure

1:02:06that all of you are on board with

1:02:08it.

1:02:09I know Michael is, so...

1:02:13Then I would take it to council, get

1:02:16that approved, and then we get it set

1:02:19up at WPR.

1:02:20Okay.

1:02:22As part of our research.

1:02:23And work it through council with Dave and

1:02:25see if Dave can fast track everything through.

1:02:28I mean, we've got time, but the quicker

1:02:30she knows, has the commitment from us.

1:02:34And I don't think it's going to be

1:02:35an issue with the council at all.

1:02:37I think they're going to look at us

1:02:39as, hey, the planning board is...

1:02:42You're going to make us look very smart.

1:02:46And I think, you know, one thing that

1:02:48could be concerning is that if students are

1:02:50asking local people in the community about this

1:02:54possibility, but we can run all of our,

1:02:56like, surveys or interview scripts through you all

1:03:00to make sure, or through Katie, to make

1:03:02sure that we're clear that this isn't an

1:03:05imminent thing that's happening, but we're just collecting

1:03:07information.

1:03:08And that we have to be doing our

1:03:10research and you would be one of our

1:03:12tools.

1:03:13Yep.

1:03:14Right.

1:03:14Yeah.

1:03:15Absolutely.

1:03:16And we were actually, after our meeting with

1:03:18you Laura, talking in our office that, like,

1:03:21for this issue in particular, it might be

1:03:22beneficial to have this coming from student research.

1:03:26We're not, like, hiring some outside firm that

1:03:28people are going to be, like, worried about.

1:03:31Right.

1:03:31I think they'll be a little more open

1:03:32to undergrads doing a project.

1:03:35Right.

1:03:36No, I think it's great.

1:03:39We don't have to pay a consultant.

1:03:41No.

1:03:43No, and the thing is, there are some

1:03:47undergrads that will probably dig up more information

1:03:49than a consultant would even come close to.

1:03:53And they are supervised by a faculty member

1:03:55who supports them throughout the entire project.

1:03:57So they have very close supervision and prompting

1:04:00and advice from our faculty to make sure

1:04:03that they are looking at both sides of

1:04:06the issue and, you know, making sure that

1:04:08their research is fair and not biased.

1:04:12Good.

1:04:13Great.

1:04:14Yep.

1:04:14Great.

1:04:14We look forward to it.

1:04:15Yep.

1:04:16Okay.

1:04:16Thank you.

1:04:18Thank you.

1:04:19Okay.

1:04:19All right.

1:04:20Have a good night.

1:04:25I'll make a motion that we have Katie

1:04:30propose this to the town council to get

1:04:35us started with one of the tools of

1:04:38our investigative zoning review for data centers.

1:04:44Right.

1:04:44I think the word tools is a good

1:04:45one to use.

1:04:46Tools, yeah.

1:04:47It's one of our tools.

1:04:48Because you don't want them thinking that we're

1:04:50transferring.

1:04:51Yeah.

1:04:51Right.

1:04:52Right.

1:04:53Yep.

1:04:53Do I have a second?

1:04:55I will second that.

1:04:58Arno wants a headache.

1:04:59I can tell.

1:04:59This is up your alley.

1:05:01I know it is.

1:05:03All right.

1:05:03Discussion?

1:05:04I think that's fine.

1:05:06All right.

1:05:08All right.

1:05:09Okay.

1:05:09Can we go back to the food trucks?

1:05:11Oh, yeah.

1:05:11In our zoning, we have a thing that

1:05:15says refreshment stand drive-in or other food

1:05:19service establishment where food or beverages are served

1:05:23inside a building to persons standing or seated

1:05:27outside.

1:05:28Inside a truck could be considered the same

1:05:32thing.

1:05:32And that would require site plan review in

1:05:36retail business, general business, and central core.

1:05:40And special permit in the other two.

1:05:45And where are they?

1:05:49That's down at Thomas' Variety.

1:05:52Yeah.

1:05:52The old Lazo's Pub.

1:05:54Wait.

1:05:54Actually, I have some other exciting news that

1:05:56I can get pulled up.

1:05:59Yep.

1:06:00We have a lot of exciting news.

1:06:02I have started remapping our zoning map.

1:06:06Including the updates from 2022.

1:06:09So you can actually see where it got

1:06:11changed from manufacturing.

1:06:16Not finished yet.

1:06:19But...

1:06:20Hmm.

1:06:21That's a lot of work, Katie.

1:06:23It's a lot of work.

1:06:25I...

1:06:25Because you have to take each section.

1:06:28Oh, man.

1:06:29Yeah.

1:06:29Because I had thought...

1:06:30Oh, yeah.

1:06:30She changed it.

1:06:31I see it.

1:06:33This is more information than you need.

1:06:34But I thought CMRPC had received...

1:06:37When they did it, they gave us the

1:06:39layer that you're supposed to be able to

1:06:40upload into this.

1:06:42And then you can just edit it from

1:06:43there.

1:06:43But it's out of date.

1:06:45And they won't update it for us unless

1:06:47we pay them.

1:06:48So...

1:06:53So...

1:06:54So it should be right down in...

1:06:57No.

1:07:01No, keep going.

1:07:02They're farther up.

1:07:03No.

1:07:03The other way.

1:07:04The other way.

1:07:05Are they in that white block?

1:07:06They're in the white.

1:07:07This one.

1:07:08No, keep going up.

1:07:09They're up towards the rotary.

1:07:11Oh, okay.

1:07:11Yeah.

1:07:12They're up to the rotary.

1:07:13That's right.

1:07:14Yeah.

1:07:16Yeah.

1:07:17So...

1:07:18Go to the corner of...

1:07:21I should be easy.

1:07:23Yeah.

1:07:23I was being too confident too soon.

1:07:29So just go up to the corner of...

1:07:33Yeah, right down to the rotary.

1:07:36Right there.

1:07:38Yeah.

1:07:38Down.

1:07:40Yeah.

1:07:40Yeah.

1:07:41R3.

1:07:43GB?

1:07:44R3?

1:07:45R3.

1:07:47For general business.

1:07:48The one on the corner is Garen.

1:07:53The next one in is the Law.

1:07:56And then the next one in is Thomas'.

1:08:01So Thomas' is in R3.

1:08:04That should be changed.

1:08:06They're in general business?

1:08:08And this is the Law?

1:08:10Law.

1:08:11Yeah, they're on the same page.

1:08:13Yeah, because Swadia...

1:08:14Okay, Swadia is that one right there.

1:08:16Yeah, that's Thomas'.

1:08:17It's right there.

1:08:20And Swadia bought the one at auction or

1:08:22something for the old Lazo's Copper Penny Pub.

1:08:27That used to be the old Copper Penny

1:08:28Pub.

1:08:29Where this law is now?

1:08:36It's general business?

1:08:37It's general business.

1:08:39So, I mean, theoretically general business would be

1:08:42Site Plan Review.

1:08:43What's it?

1:08:43Yes.

1:08:44Site Plan Review.

1:08:46But it specifically says building.

1:08:49Sorry, will you consider it?

1:08:51I don't think you should consider that.

1:08:53We used to do that a lot.

1:08:56Sort of saying, this sounds like it.

1:08:59But it's not specific.

1:09:00We have food truck.

1:09:01We don't have food truck.

1:09:02But there's a difference between a truck and

1:09:05a building.

1:09:06A truck is mobile.

1:09:07But everything else here is refreshments stand, drive

1:09:10-in, or other food service establishment where food

1:09:14or beverage are served from inside.

1:09:18Let's take out building, to person standing or

1:09:21seated outside.

1:09:22Building versus truck, I think the intent would

1:09:29fall under that.

1:09:30I mean, standing outside.

1:09:32Then we probably should change it to, we

1:09:36should probably, Unless this is a small change,

1:09:39a building or other facility.

1:09:44Or other structure.

1:09:46Or other, well, a truck is not a

1:09:48structure.

1:09:48Building, either a building or a mobile, a

1:09:54mobile something.

1:09:57It's not the way it is right now,

1:09:59though.

1:09:59No.

1:10:00But I mean, if it was just.

1:10:01But then it sounds like, like you say,

1:10:03everything else.

1:10:04Everything else, except for the word building, it

1:10:05falls under there.

1:10:07So I think we have a big leg

1:10:10to stand on right there.

1:10:12We have somebody now who wants to do

1:10:14it.

1:10:14Because we don't allow a truck, okay.

1:10:17A truck is, leaving a truck on a

1:10:19lot is storage on a lot.

1:10:21So he wouldn't require a storage permit.

1:10:24Because if he left a truck on that

1:10:26lot with nothing else, now it's open storage.

1:10:29So is open storage allowed?

1:10:34Automobile vehicle services.

1:10:37Where's open storage?

1:10:38Where was it here?

1:10:40I saw it somewhere here.

1:10:45I haven't looked at it lately.

1:10:47Outdoor commercial recreation facility, no?

1:10:49No, it's not storage.

1:10:51No, I saw it here a couple minutes

1:10:53ago.

1:10:54Is it up there?

1:10:55No, it's back here.

1:10:57Okay, storage or warehouse.

1:11:00Outdoor storage yard of any material or equipment

1:11:03of a type permitted to be stored in

1:11:05a warehouse in the same location.

1:11:08No, no, no.

1:11:09Wholesale, okay, so that would be automotive.

1:11:11Where's the automotive sales storage?

1:11:14Automobile service station, no.

1:11:16Car wash, automobile, boom, boom.

1:11:17Commercial parking.

1:11:18I think it might have been accessory uses.

1:11:20Is there a thing called accessory uses?

1:11:21Yeah, accessory use, there it is right here.

1:11:24There it is.

1:11:25Outdoor storage of trucks, supplies, and equipment in

1:11:28good working order incidental to the permitted use.

1:11:33If on a lot abutting a residential district,

1:11:36the outdoor storage shall be screened from view,

1:11:39which it is, theoretically, adjacent properties with evergreen

1:11:43vegetation of sufficient density and height to, okay,

1:11:47vegetation shall be, boom, boom, boom.

1:11:53So, yeah, no, no.

1:11:56It is outdoor storage of trucks, supplies, and

1:12:00equipment.

1:12:02Theoretically, because it's no different than the guy

1:12:06on school in West.

1:12:09Put a food truck on there.

1:12:11Okay.

1:12:14Yeah, but the food truck is registered.

1:12:20But if he's going to make it permanent

1:12:22and then make a carport permanent, a structure.

1:12:27So, I mean, they're rejecting the carport.

1:12:29Yeah.

1:12:30Who is rejecting it?

1:12:32The building department.

1:12:33The building department, that's right on that part,

1:12:34because you can't put a structure on something

1:12:37like that.

1:12:38But the food truck, the sales, theoretically, require

1:12:44a site plan review.

1:12:46And that would require even any of them

1:12:48in town.

1:12:51Would require.

1:12:52You've got somebody up in the globe.

1:12:54You've got the ones at the old registry

1:12:56site.

1:12:57Five star.

1:12:58You know, we went through this with the

1:13:02fellow that sells hot dogs.

1:13:04Yes.

1:13:05And George Chenier wanted to do something.

1:13:09And he was going to go in this

1:13:10site.

1:13:10Yes.

1:13:11And he had to get a special permit.

1:13:12Permit.

1:13:14Because our town attorney said that that was

1:13:18the way it should go.

1:13:18Rivender.

1:13:19But if we could change this just so

1:13:23it has a real reference to something that's

1:13:28not permanent, then.

1:13:30We should have a thing for mobile food

1:13:32trucks.

1:13:32Are they allowed or not allowed?

1:13:34Yeah.

1:13:34So.

1:13:35Under.

1:13:36Because I think it shouldn't be a special

1:13:38permit.

1:13:39I think it should be a site plan

1:13:41review.

1:13:41We should have mobile food trucks.

1:13:44And then allowed.

1:13:45Yes, no, no, no.

1:13:46Yes, yes.

1:13:47And put it in whatever zone.

1:13:50But.

1:13:51Okay.

1:13:51Here's the issue.

1:13:54I'm having a party at my house.

1:13:59And I want to bring in BT Smokehouse

1:14:01with their mobile smoker and their food truck.

1:14:06But that is not a permanent thing.

1:14:09No.

1:14:10That's an occasion.

1:14:11Once occasion.

1:14:12Right.

1:14:12It's like causing in for someone who wants

1:14:15an ice cream.

1:14:15Permanent food trucks on lots should not be

1:14:18allowed.

1:14:20Because that defeats the whole purpose of zoning.

1:14:25Defeats.

1:14:26It's okay.

1:14:27Then why don't we put a mini house

1:14:29on wheels, a trailer on a lot.

1:14:31And live in it.

1:14:32The hot dog stand is pretty much permanent.

1:14:36It's mobile.

1:14:37But he takes it in and out.

1:14:38But he's not on private land.

1:14:40And takes it in and out.

1:14:42Yeah, that's true.

1:14:43But the thing is, is what's the difference?

1:14:44You put a trailer.

1:14:46It's on wheels.

1:14:48So you're now saying the same thing.

1:14:50Let's go on a residential view.

1:14:52I want to live and go on.

1:14:53There's a vacant lot on high street.

1:14:55I pull the trailer up there.

1:14:56And theoretically I should be able to live

1:14:58out of that trailer on that lot?

1:15:01No.

1:15:01So why would we allow a food truck

1:15:04to drive onto a lot?

1:15:05And be able to stay there permanently?

1:15:09Well, for the time being, can we let

1:15:11this person apply under that?

1:15:14I mean, they.

1:15:16I don't know.

1:15:17There's no application.

1:15:19Because at this point, they're just a food

1:15:22truck on a lot.

1:15:24So we don't.

1:15:26So the hot dog is.

1:15:28So the hot dog cart is different because

1:15:30it's on public.

1:15:31Yeah, but zoning.

1:15:34And so is all the other ones that

1:15:36are in public lots.

1:15:37Except for the one on Five Star.

1:15:39Five Star is on private.

1:15:40But the thing is, is it should require,

1:15:43if on the lot like that, basically permanently

1:15:46placed, should require a site plan review.

1:15:50If it was permanently placed.

1:15:53Even if it's not permanently placed.

1:15:55It's on private lot.

1:15:56And while it's there, we want to see

1:15:58what it.

1:15:59While it's there, we want to see what

1:16:01it's like.

1:16:01You don't like the idea that it could

1:16:03be used other ways.

1:16:07No, I.

1:16:08Like a mobile home.

1:16:09Well, the whole purpose for zoning, that's what

1:16:11it is as a structure.

1:16:12This is like, this is like.

1:16:16Theoretically, you could pull it up on a

1:16:18lot.

1:16:21In a residential zone.

1:16:24And open up shops.

1:16:27So there's got, there's got to.

1:16:29The regulations got to govern that.

1:16:31This regulation under site plan review.

1:16:33And at least if we go under here,

1:16:35it's not allowed in residential.

1:16:37It's allowed by site plan review.

1:16:40And central core.

1:16:43Well, right now the two business zones and.

1:16:46Frankly, I would.

1:16:48I don't know why special permit in the

1:16:50other two zones.

1:16:51I would.

1:16:52Yeah.

1:16:52That's where you want it the most.

1:16:54But I think, you know, you, you want

1:16:57it.

1:16:57You want to somehow convey that it is

1:17:00not.

1:17:01It may be used almost permanently.

1:17:05But it's not like a building, which is

1:17:07permanently affixed to the land.

1:17:10Right.

1:17:10It's not.

1:17:11But the thing is.

1:17:11So you need to distinguish that or.

1:17:15But the use, the use right here.

1:17:17According to this bylaw falls under that section

1:17:19of the bylaw.

1:17:20In my opinion.

1:17:20Well, even though it says building.

1:17:24So I think they should.

1:17:26Because it's, it's on their lap.

1:17:28They should apply for site plan review.

1:17:32You can bring that to Teddy.

1:17:34Yeah.

1:17:34Okay.

1:17:35Tell Teddy, if he has any.

1:17:37Everything else.

1:17:38Tell Teddy to call me.

1:17:39If he has a course building.

1:17:41It all sounds right.

1:17:42Yep.

1:17:43You're standing outside.

1:17:44You're being given the food.

1:17:46Do the scenario.

1:17:47Do the scenario.

1:17:48If we, if.

1:17:50For, for mobile, mobile units.

1:17:52Do the scenario of a trailer on a

1:17:55resident.

1:17:56On a vacant residential lot.

1:17:58He wouldn't allow that.

1:18:00Because it's only for.

1:18:01A certain period of time under a special

1:18:03permit.

1:18:04If your house burns down.

1:18:06Or something like that.

1:18:07Right.

1:18:07We don't want to interfere with that.

1:18:09But that, but that, but that's, that's the

1:18:11thing that.

1:18:12We would not allow it.

1:18:14Right.

1:18:14This is no one there.

1:18:16Yeah.

1:18:17Okay.

1:18:19Are we doing this under the.

1:18:23Under the understanding that they have shown.

1:18:25That they want to make it permanent versus

1:18:27like.

1:18:27No.

1:18:28We're not requesting this.

1:18:29It's a food, food truck on a, on

1:18:32a, on a lot.

1:18:33So then are we going to go request

1:18:34this from.

1:18:35Yes.

1:18:35The one on.

1:18:36Yes.

1:18:37On the parking lot.

1:18:38No, the parking lot is not on private

1:18:40property.

1:18:42It's not.

1:18:43Well.

1:18:44The one that's in.

1:18:47But the one on.

1:18:50The one.

1:18:51That parts down by the common.

1:18:52The one that's by the registry.

1:18:54Is in part.

1:18:55Is in the.

1:18:56Taking of Lerishell way.

1:18:58Or town property.

1:18:59That's like in the convenience store.

1:19:03Where's that one?

1:19:04It's like.

1:19:06So there's the one that's.

1:19:07In the.

1:19:08Lower shell.

1:19:09And then there's another.

1:19:10Oh yeah.

1:19:11That's right.

1:19:11The one.

1:19:12The one that.

1:19:13The taco place.

1:19:16Is in.

1:19:16He's in the.

1:19:17In the mellow.

1:19:18Mellow tiger.

1:19:19Property.

1:19:20He definitely needs.

1:19:21To have something.

1:19:22Then know what?

1:19:23Because that's taken parking.

1:19:24Is that central core?

1:19:25Yeah.

1:19:26It is.

1:19:27Then it's.

1:19:27Site plan review.

1:19:28Site plan review.

1:19:29You're right.

1:19:29So they.

1:19:30So he has to get a site plan

1:19:31review.

1:19:31They would have to require a site plan

1:19:33review too.

1:19:34And we don't.

1:19:35So.

1:19:36If that goes.

1:19:37If Teddy goes along with.

1:19:39What we're thinking.

1:19:39Right.

1:19:40Because I was like.

1:19:42Go ahead.

1:19:43Like what.

1:19:43What is our.

1:19:44Criteria.

1:19:45What criteria are you proposing?

1:19:47I guess that's.

1:19:47So you're saying.

1:19:48If it's in a.

1:19:49In a private property.

1:19:50On a private.

1:19:50Private property.

1:19:51And then.

1:19:52If it's on the public property.

1:19:53That is a board of health.

1:19:55And a.

1:19:56Police.

1:19:58Traffic commission.

1:19:59Issue.

1:20:00If it's on.

1:20:01But the thing is.

1:20:01If it's on the public property.

1:20:05It's got to be.

1:20:06They got to be getting.

1:20:07Board of health permits.

1:20:08And saying where they're setting up.

1:20:09Aren't they?

1:20:12Yes.

1:20:13So.

1:20:13That would be under.

1:20:14The board of health permit.

1:20:15If it's on public property.

1:20:17But if it's on private property.

1:20:20It's still good to get.

1:20:21You got to get.

1:20:22They got to get the bill.

1:20:23Affirmative.

1:20:23But they also got to go through.

1:20:24Site plan review.

1:20:25Because.

1:20:25Yeah.

1:20:28If.

1:20:29They go along.

1:20:29If they go along.

1:20:30With.

1:20:30With that section of the bylaw.

1:20:32Right.

1:20:34Which.

1:20:35Tell.

1:20:35If Teddy has a question.

1:20:36Tell him to call me.

1:20:37Because I'll make the argument.

1:20:38And I think it.

1:20:39If you look at it.

1:20:40And do.

1:20:40Hey.

1:20:40Ted.

1:20:41If you're not going to.

1:20:43Regulate mobile.

1:20:44Trucks like this.

1:20:45Versus mobile homes.

1:20:47It's the same.

1:20:47It's the same scenario.

1:20:48The intent of the bylaw.

1:20:50Is.

1:20:51Not to allow stuff.

1:20:52On private property.

1:20:54To protect private property.

1:20:56Of this.

1:20:56If it's allowed in the public way.

1:20:59That's.

1:21:00And the town manager can say no.

1:21:02I don't want it there.

1:21:03Correct.

1:21:04So.

1:21:05I see the.

1:21:06Yeah.

1:21:06Separation.

1:21:07Yeah.

1:21:07It's a.

1:21:08Separation.

1:21:11I'm not against them.

1:21:12I mean.

1:21:12Frankly.

1:21:13But know what.

1:21:13We got to be consistent.

1:21:15Yes.

1:21:15And we don't charge.

1:21:17We don't have an application.

1:21:18Fee for site plan review.

1:21:20Do we.

1:21:21So.

1:21:21It's no.

1:21:22It's really.

1:21:22No.

1:21:23They bring up the aerial map.

1:21:24Show it where it is.

1:21:25And so.

1:21:26I can tell you.

1:21:27The one.

1:21:28I've eaten at the one.

1:21:29That's.

1:21:30In the parking lot.

1:21:31Of Mellow Tiger.

1:21:32Okay.

1:21:33I parked there.

1:21:34And believe it or not.

1:21:34There were six cars.

1:21:36Parked.

1:21:37Parked there.

1:21:38Because they.

1:21:39Take your order.

1:21:40Then they give you a little.

1:21:41Beeper thing.

1:21:42And you go sit in your car.

1:21:43Until it beeps.

1:21:44And then you go pick it up.

1:21:46Wow.

1:21:46Yeah.

1:21:47Over there.

1:21:48It's actually pretty cool.

1:21:49And I.

1:21:51I've had a real good burrito there.

1:21:54Okay.

1:21:54Come on.

1:21:55Real good.

1:21:56Hey.

1:21:57Take real good burrito.

1:21:59All right.

1:21:59So.

1:22:00Getting to this.

1:22:01Information.

1:22:02You're going to.

1:22:03Is definition is going to be.

1:22:07Incorporated somewhere in there.

1:22:08Or is that the beginning.

1:22:10Will that be page one.

1:22:11I moved it to the beginning.

1:22:13I agree.

1:22:14I think it's usually done that way.

1:22:16To see how we felt about it.

1:22:18I agree.

1:22:19I think that's the way it's done.

1:22:19those things are usually done.

1:22:21Okay, so that'll be, whatever it'll be, it'll

1:22:25be some page in there.

1:22:27So the only thing I found, let me

1:22:29run through this.

1:22:32I got to this one on the manufacturing

1:22:38or mixed-use building where I didn't understand

1:22:43the English.

1:22:45A building or group of buildings under one

1:22:47or a single ownership.

1:22:54Yeah, it's under mixed-use building.

1:22:59I don't know.

1:23:01Web page?

1:23:02I don't know, it hasn't got a page.

1:23:05Mixed-use building.

1:23:06Oh, under definitions?

1:23:08Yeah.

1:23:09Oh, okay.

1:23:13Okay, mixed-use.

1:23:15A building or group of buildings under one

1:23:17or a single ownership.

1:23:18I was reading this thing and saying...

1:23:19Which contains dwellings located above the ground floor

1:23:22of an...

1:23:23I don't think we actually, like, as a

1:23:26group find...

1:23:26See this?

1:23:27Yeah.

1:23:28It says one or...

1:23:29A group of buildings under one or a

1:23:31single One or a single ownership is the

1:23:35same thing.

1:23:39One...

1:23:39I couldn't...

1:23:40I was trying to...

1:23:41Buildings, it should be mixed-use building under

1:23:44a single ownership.

1:23:46Take out the word one.

1:23:48It's in definitions on the front of the

1:23:53definitions part.

1:23:55In this section.

1:23:56Oh, okay.

1:23:57I thought you would...

1:23:58Yeah, no.

1:23:59Sorry.

1:24:00It's under mixed-use building, Sandy.

1:24:02Yeah, okay.

1:24:04So I think you've got to take out

1:24:06one, just under single ownership, because that's what

1:24:11it is.

1:24:11It's a single ownership of the property, but

1:24:14multiple buildings or multiple uses in a building.

1:24:18So under single.

1:24:19Just move up one or...

1:24:21Take one or out.

1:24:22Okay.

1:24:24Okay, thank you.

1:24:26Yeah.

1:24:27And then I went through all of that.

1:24:30I went through these.

1:24:31I didn't find much.

1:24:32Well, I found some things here.

1:24:34What else did you find?

1:24:35So what did you want to do about

1:24:37mixed-use buildings?

1:24:38Take out one.

1:24:39Or one.

1:24:41Just keep single.

1:24:42Take out one or and just keep single.

1:24:44Okay.

1:24:48Under page 22B2.

1:24:58According to the...

1:25:01Applications for special permits when the board is...

1:25:04So this is under Zoning Board of Appeals.

1:25:08Do they do special permits?

1:25:09Yes, they...

1:25:10Well, they typically did under one circumstance.

1:25:13And that was for...

1:25:15So we're all set on this?

1:25:20When a use has been...

1:25:22Abandoned.

1:25:22Abandoned.

1:25:23It's an abandoned.

1:25:24Okay, then under page 2.4E, just numbering,

1:25:31because seven goes away, eight should be seven,

1:25:35and eight should be nine, you know, nine

1:25:37should be eight.

1:25:37That kind of stuff.

1:25:38She fixed it on mine.

1:25:41She just printed it today.

1:25:452.4. I'm sorry.

1:25:51Oh, it's okay.

1:25:52When we're done talking, can I take a

1:25:54copy of the notes you made?

1:25:55Sure.

1:25:56Okay, then under 2.6.2, there's no

1:26:02A.

1:26:06But there's a B, C, and a D.

1:26:12So I'm saying site plan review is A?

1:26:16Oh, okay, right here.

1:26:182.6.2, yeah.

1:26:20You know, because there's a C and a

1:26:26D, but there's no A.

1:26:31So I'm saying...

1:26:33Site plan review should be A.

1:26:36Yeah, B should be...

1:26:38D should be B.

1:26:39Yep, yep.

1:26:40Okay, thank you.

1:26:42And then E is C on the next

1:26:45page.

1:26:46Okay.

1:26:48And then D becomes A under 2.6

1:26:55.4?

1:26:562.6.4, D would become A again,

1:27:01because we took that out.

1:27:02Yep.

1:27:04And then E would be B.

1:27:08Yeah, E would be B, right?

1:27:10Good catch.

1:27:15And then 3-1 under districts, you've got

1:27:20to put the other two overlay districts in.

1:27:23You don't have them here.

1:27:25You only have flood and watershed.

1:27:27Not AO and FLEX.

1:27:32You reference them later on in here, but

1:27:36not there.

1:27:38So you've got to say that we have

1:27:40six use districts and four overlay districts.

1:27:47But you did in the back, but not

1:27:49in this front one.

1:28:00And then 4-2...

1:28:03Wait, hold on.

1:28:063.4, Central Core, any building with an

1:28:09existing storefront shall be required to maintain that

1:28:12storefront upon change or use of the buildings.

1:28:16So why is there an A if there's

1:28:20no B?

1:28:20Well, some people do it that way.

1:28:23I was taught the same way.

1:28:254-2, I don't get A.

1:28:29Any use not listed may be allowed by

1:28:32special permit.

1:28:34That's the one I'm thinking.

1:28:37501, that's a 501.

1:28:38Yeah, and that is not phrased right.

1:28:40That's not the way it's supposed to be

1:28:41phrased.

1:28:41Yeah, I think that's the way when we

1:28:43went over it, we said it, but I...

1:28:45Well, I'm getting heartburn over this now, because

1:28:49that's what they're using, because it's not listed

1:28:54for the data center, we can't have it.

1:28:56So this is going to give me heartburn,

1:28:57because I'd like to have it where I

1:28:59want it and not where I don't want

1:29:00it.

1:29:01What we said when we were talking about

1:29:03the data centers was any use not listed

1:29:07is prohibited.

1:29:10And then somebody here said that you could

1:29:16always address it, but I

1:29:21don't...

1:29:32Florence gave us, and I still have that,

1:29:36she gave us the right wording.

1:29:39Right, but it's still allowed.

1:29:43But it was, no, any use not listed

1:29:47is prohibited except on special permit if the

1:29:52planning board finds and she listed things.

1:29:55That's what I'm saying, but I'm just saying

1:29:57the other way...

1:29:59Would you feel more comfortable if it was

1:30:01that way?

1:30:05Right now, I think this would go right

1:30:07down our throats if we try to push

1:30:08it through.

1:30:09Yes, it would.

1:30:10Because right now it's being used in our

1:30:12favor.

1:30:13If it's not listed, it's not allowed.

1:30:15That's it.

1:30:16The thing is, especially where we don't have

1:30:19the other bylaws in place and listed in

1:30:22here.

1:30:22I think we better stick with what we

1:30:24have.

1:30:25Any use not listed is prohibited.

1:30:29I think we should go back to...

1:30:35You're right.

1:30:36I think we should use what Florence gave

1:30:40us because it gives us the option, in

1:30:43our opinion...

1:30:45It makes us a decision, so we're going

1:30:47to have to say no to a data

1:30:49center if it doesn't meet the criteria that

1:30:51we all agree with.

1:30:53It puts the vote on us.

1:30:54Like, if it can fit and...

1:30:58I don't remember, but I thought she was

1:31:02genius the way she constructed it.

1:31:04It was only two sentences.

1:31:08There's pros and cons.

1:31:09I know, it's a double-edged sword.

1:31:11It is.

1:31:12I don't know, what do you think?

1:31:13I need some input.

1:31:14I know, we need Arnold's input on this

1:31:15one.

1:31:17The rest of us are getting tired.

1:31:20If it's not listed right now, they're saying,

1:31:23we can't have it.

1:31:25If somebody comes to you six months from

1:31:28now with a project that's not listed anywhere,

1:31:32and you go, that's a pretty damn good

1:31:33idea.

1:31:34Guess what?

1:31:34It's not allowed.

1:31:36Because you didn't think about that somebody would

1:31:39want to do pata pata or whatever it

1:31:40is.

1:31:41Some mysterious thing that nobody's thought about.

1:31:44Let's go on the presumption here.

1:31:48Here we go.

1:31:49Let's go on the presumption.

1:31:51LNG Gas wants to put a huge storage

1:31:54tank down by the sewer plant.

1:31:59Huge, huge storage tank.

1:32:01It's not listed in our zoning.

1:32:07We now have to have good reason, and

1:32:11it opens to deny it.

1:32:14If they came back and said, it's not

1:32:16going to be a traffic issue, had directors

1:32:17prove it's not a safety issue and everything

1:32:20else, and then we deny it, we open

1:32:25ourselves up to appeal.

1:32:26Now, if we don't allow it and it's

1:32:32something we want, if it's something that big

1:32:35and that extravagant, we can go through the

1:32:39zone change to allow that.

1:32:42It would just take time.

1:32:44It takes time.

1:32:45Two months maybe?

1:32:47And it may not happen.

1:32:50So the thing is, on the side of

1:32:53error, I think if we keep it as

1:32:55prohibited, we're safer.

1:32:59Because then we can always change it for

1:33:02a specific use.

1:33:03Well, because theoretically right now food trucks aren't

1:33:06listed in our zoning.

1:33:08They're prohibited.

1:33:10Let's look at it that way.

1:33:14So let me just read this that Florence

1:33:16gave us.

1:33:17We can't prohibit cars.

1:33:21On a lot.

1:33:23But the sale of food on a lot,

1:33:27from a mobile truck, is not listed in

1:33:30our zoning.

1:33:31So if that use is not listed in

1:33:34our zoning, it's prohibited.

1:33:35In theory.

1:33:37So they're better off to go with that

1:33:39site plan review option.

1:33:42So I really feel that it was very

1:33:47sad when this was taken away from us.

1:33:50Under the 501, the use regulations defined.

1:33:56The first one was 501.1, table of

1:33:59use regulations.

1:34:00In each zoning district, the use of land,

1:34:03buildings, and structures shall be as set forth

1:34:06in section 502, the table of use regs,

1:34:10and as provided elsewhere in this bylaw.

1:34:13Any use not listed is prohibited, except that

1:34:17such a use may be allowed on special

1:34:20permit if the special permit granting authority determines

1:34:24that public convenience and welfare will be substantially

1:34:27served.

1:34:28And the requested permit will not tend to

1:34:31impair the status of the neighborhood.

1:34:34I thought that was beautifully written.

1:34:36And we never used it, that it wasn't

1:34:38appropriate.

1:34:40So we should consider that.

1:34:41But maybe not tonight.

1:34:43Well, I mean, that's what I was trying

1:34:45to get back to.

1:34:46I was trying to get back that into

1:34:47here too.

1:34:48I mean, that lady is not here anymore.

1:34:52We can't be scared of making a decision

1:34:55either.

1:34:56The Planning Board is here to make a

1:34:57decision.

1:34:58No, I'm not.

1:35:00I'm just saying...

1:35:01I'm not saying this.

1:35:03I shouldn't say the word scared.

1:35:05We shouldn't feel intimidated to make a decision.

1:35:10You know what?

1:35:11If it is...

1:35:13We just have to remember that the findings

1:35:18for our making a decision have to be

1:35:20laid out, which she did in that.

1:35:23Because we are not an elected commission.

1:35:26We're appointed.

1:35:26So if it's a commission, if it's an

1:35:30elected commission like the Downtown

1:35:39Redevelopment Authority is a commission, they are voted

1:35:46in.

1:35:47So they have more power than we do.

1:35:49But the thing of it is, Florence has

1:35:53written in the criteria that has to be

1:35:57met by us.

1:35:59Because we're not a voted commission.

1:36:01That is genius, what she wrote.

1:36:04Mike, we can take a copy of what

1:36:06Sandy has and insert it here and see

1:36:11what happens.

1:36:12Okay.

1:36:14I'm always going to be happy that I

1:36:16kept this copy.

1:36:18Why don't you make a copy of that

1:36:19for Katie, please?

1:36:21Yeah.

1:36:21You mean the whole thing?

1:36:23Yeah, 501.

1:36:23The 501 section.

1:36:24I'll pull it out right now.

1:36:28Yeah, I...

1:36:29What do you think?

1:36:32I mean, I understand the wording of it.

1:36:40Um, Teddy's right now using the prohibited part

1:36:43as the reason why they don't even come

1:36:48to us if we do this moratorium.

1:36:51And so he has to say no.

1:36:52Right now, before the moratorium, I agree.

1:36:54But I mean, the thing is, the moratorium

1:36:56would be in place.

1:36:57Right.

1:36:58No, but I'm just saying, that's the tool

1:37:00that he's using right now.

1:37:03And the thing is, what's the next...

1:37:05That kind of takes the tool...

1:37:07What's the next data center that comes into

1:37:08place that he won't have that tool anymore?

1:37:11No.

1:37:12They'll have to come before us, and then

1:37:15we'll have to do the denial.

1:37:18Yeah.

1:37:19Or the acceptance.

1:37:20Or the acceptance, depending on what it is,

1:37:22if they met the criteria and everything else.

1:37:25I mean, that's the whole purpose of the

1:37:27planning board, but...

1:37:28I like the tenor of what she wrote.

1:37:35I understand...

1:37:36Because right now, food trucks would make it

1:37:39allowed that food trucks, instead of not allowed,

1:37:41that they could come to us for a

1:37:42special permit.

1:37:43Right.

1:37:44Who would have thought?

1:37:45And that's why George Chenier was able to

1:37:48do it.

1:37:49He came to us for a special permit

1:37:51under that.

1:37:52I remember that.

1:37:52But, you know, the thing is, she's given

1:37:55us...

1:37:56I think the important thing is, she's given

1:37:58us the criteria.

1:38:00So we are not overstepping our bounds, which

1:38:02means that if somebody challenged us, the judge

1:38:08would say, well, you're not an elected board,

1:38:10but here are the criteria that are in

1:38:13your bylaws.

1:38:15And it is sort of subjective, the criteria,

1:38:20if it fits within the neighborhood.

1:38:23Whereas, no, it doesn't fit.

1:38:26Right.

1:38:28I do like that wording.

1:38:31You know, she was a...

1:38:32That's one we've got to talk about.

1:38:34We'll put 501 there at the moment.

1:38:36For A.

1:38:39Okay, there are these things.

1:38:41I didn't see anything there.

1:38:505.2. C becomes B.

1:38:55Just one of these little things.

1:39:06Why?

1:39:07Okay, no, no.

1:39:08I got you.

1:39:115.2. Okay, here it is, 5.2

1:39:14.2. And then 7.2 in the chart,

1:39:22or the table.

1:39:267.2. I put business, professional, or government.

1:39:32I put use.

1:39:34And then comma verbatim.

1:39:36I put use behind government.

1:39:39Yes.

1:39:42Well...

1:39:43Right?

1:39:45Otherwise, what is governmental?

1:39:47Governmental what?

1:39:48Professional what?

1:39:49I put governmental use.

1:39:51Business what?

1:39:53I put use.

1:39:54The thing is, up here it says, look,

1:39:56use.

1:39:56And it says business, professional, or governmental.

1:40:02Retail store, we don't have use.

1:40:03We don't have veterinary hospital, we don't have

1:40:05use.

1:40:06Take it out of there.

1:40:07So what are you saying?

1:40:08Right here.

1:40:10See how it says use up here?

1:40:11Yeah, yeah.

1:40:12Dave was saying, well, should we have business,

1:40:14professional, or governmental use, but we don't have

1:40:16use in any of the other ones.

1:40:17Oh, no, okay.

1:40:18And use is at the top, so...

1:40:19Sometimes, if Terry was here, she would say,

1:40:22if it sounds better grammatically...

1:40:25Does it not say office?

1:40:29Business, professional, governmental, bank.

1:40:32Bank.

1:40:33Office is crossed out.

1:40:34Because then we did office in...

1:40:40So you don't want office?

1:40:42Well, I don't know.

1:40:43It was taken out.

1:40:44It was taken out.

1:40:47So it would have been taken out where

1:40:49you...

1:40:49Yeah.

1:40:50Yeah, we're fine.

1:40:51Is there a line you don't want it

1:40:52down?

1:40:52Well, the next one down is office or

1:40:55inventory space.

1:40:57So, is there such a thing...

1:40:58We took it out of there and we

1:40:59made a new line.

1:41:00Is there such a thing as a governmental

1:41:01bank?

1:41:03No, it's comma.

1:41:04Oh, okay.

1:41:07It's after offices.

1:41:10Next page, F, should be 1 and 2.

1:41:16Oh, change that.

1:41:17Renumbering.

1:41:17Yep.

1:41:25715, the top sentence.

1:41:28The number of parking spaces required for Sewer

1:41:30to Table 3 may be reduced, I said

1:41:32by the planning board, not from the planning

1:41:35board.

1:41:35Yep.

1:41:36But by the planning board.

1:41:40715?

1:41:42715.

1:41:43Oh, okay.

1:41:45The last, from Dubai.

1:41:48We're numbering on 723.

1:41:57And then the next page, H and I.

1:42:04Section 8-9, is that right?

1:42:09Because that's the place where it calls another

1:42:12section, 8-9.

1:42:15Section 8, special use regulations.

1:42:21I want to check on that.

1:42:39So, 8-9 is adult-oriented businesses.

1:42:44Section 8-9 of this by-law.

1:42:46Signs may be illuminated.

1:42:50I don't know.

1:42:53Wow, you're up.

1:42:55I'm sorry, I need a coffee.

1:43:04So, 8-9 is adult entertainment businesses.

1:43:08So, I don't see why we would have

1:43:09said that.

1:43:09Page 8-50.

1:43:108-50.

1:43:128-50?

1:43:13Yeah, 8-50 is it?

1:43:15Yeah.

1:43:15But it says that signs may be illuminated

1:43:18subject to conditions of the special permit or

1:43:20site plan approval.

1:43:25I'm thinking we're up.

1:43:27Maybe we mean regulation of signs, 8-10.

1:43:31Where are you now?

1:43:33I'm here talking about this.

1:43:37Under 8.9, you're talking about...

1:43:39See, it says C, C-8-9?

1:43:41Yeah.

1:43:41Under signs may be illuminated.

1:43:43I'm thinking, it says 8-9.

1:43:45Wait a minute.

1:43:45I think it meant 8-10.

1:43:49Yeah, I don't see...

1:43:49You got 8-50 here, why do you

1:43:51want 7-6 there?

1:43:52Hey, I don't know.

1:43:53I'm just following...

1:43:558-40, because 8-50, 8-49.

1:43:57Look at this.

1:43:59You jumped somewhere.

1:44:007-6, 7-7.

1:44:02You jumped somewhere on there.

1:44:05Oh, these things are running...

1:44:06Adult marijuana.

1:44:08See, look at this.

1:44:09Yeah, but you're missing a whole section in

1:44:12there.

1:44:12I got 3, I got 5...

1:44:15Where's your 8-49, 8-48, 8-47?

1:44:19They're here.

1:44:22Yeah.

1:44:23But where are you on...

1:44:24I'm on 7-6.

1:44:267-6.

1:44:29So you're way back here.

1:44:30I'm 7-6.

1:44:35I'm under...

1:44:397-3, 7-8.

1:44:457-6, okay.

1:44:47Under here.

1:44:47Yep, okay.

1:44:49Where it says C-section 8-9 of

1:44:50this plant.

1:44:51I'm thinking it's 8-10.

1:44:54Yes.

1:44:54Under regulation of signs.

1:44:55Yeah, it is.

1:44:57You're right, it should be 8-10.

1:44:58Okay.

1:44:59Yep, you're a dead nuts there.

1:45:01And that's 7...

1:45:037-6, 8-7.

1:45:047-point.

1:45:05Right here.

1:45:15Versus 8-point-9.

1:45:23There's more things on 7-8 for lettering.

1:45:27All this whole thing.

1:45:29Through 9.

1:45:318-7-9.

1:45:34Oh, yeah.

1:45:34Because sections just get...

1:45:36Things just get pushed off.

1:45:41Same kind of thing on 7-10.

1:45:46But Katie's going to see all this anyway.

1:45:55How about 7-3, Mike, right here?

1:46:007-13.

1:46:00We're a lot in the business.

1:46:04We're a lot in any business, industrial...

1:46:08Yeah.

1:46:09Just put any in there.

1:46:10Any, not the.

1:46:18Okay.

1:46:22Then we go to 8-2.

1:46:25Let's see.

1:46:26It's all set, all set.

1:46:33Ahem.

1:46:37So what are you talking about?

1:46:38This is about where I read up to.

1:46:40I never made it to this whole thing.

1:46:42You made it farther than me.

1:46:44You're on page 8-2, and what is

1:46:47it?

1:46:47I'm starting it.

1:46:49I'm moving right along.

1:46:51I'm on 8-18 right now.

1:46:54I don't find anything of issue.

1:46:56Oh, good.

1:46:58Yeah, I left it right around 8.

1:47:02So...

1:47:05All right, so we go...

1:47:07I kind of get a little sleepy when

1:47:09I'm reading it, so I miss a lot

1:47:11of stuff.

1:47:11You too?

1:47:13I think I was outside.

1:47:14I brought it up to the lake, and

1:47:16I sat there, and I read a chapter.

1:47:19I was sleepy.

1:47:20So I opened it up.

1:47:22Luckily, I knew I was falling.

1:47:23I put my pen in there.

1:47:24And you say this changes now to the

1:47:262-made-2?

1:47:28To the solar and BESS?

1:47:31Or you're not in here yet, right?

1:47:34No, because, so...

1:47:36I think we also want to finish the

1:47:39solar and BESS first.

1:47:43Because we want this public hearing.

1:47:46Yes, yes, yeah.

1:47:49So what's in there should be what went

1:47:52to the public hearing, but I had another

1:47:55draft I sent out before the meeting that

1:47:57had...

1:47:58This one.

1:47:59Yes, that one.

1:48:00See what you had in here?

1:48:04Yeah.

1:48:05That's what made me think.

1:48:07Wait a minute, I just saw 6 and

1:48:082.

1:48:09Wait a minute, I've got to go back

1:48:09and check.

1:48:16Yeah, just...

1:48:17Numbering.

1:48:18Numbering and lettering and stuff like that is

1:48:20the only thing that's...

1:48:24An ideal way to do that is, I've

1:48:26always found that doing stuff like that, I

1:48:28make a separate, like a spreadsheet.

1:48:31I'll do 8, 8.1, then I'll go

1:48:33down here, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, and

1:48:35that makes me follow the chain.

1:48:38And that's a big thing.

1:48:39I do it on a spreadsheet, so I

1:48:41do a column, so 8, 8.1, 8

1:48:44.2, and then I go down through, and

1:48:45that's how I always try to keep consistent.

1:48:49That's just me, I just, sometimes I overdo

1:48:51it.

1:48:53Are you taking your OCD?

1:48:56Not as bad as my wife.

1:48:58I'm a little OCD too.

1:49:01On some things I'm OCD, some things I'm...

1:49:07I'll let you keep this.

1:49:13What I would do is, at the next

1:49:15meeting, if you're ready for it, a copy

1:49:20of whatever these solar and battery bylaw things

1:49:24you're looking at changing.

1:49:28So, you should have it.

1:49:30I can print out copies, but...

1:49:31She sent it just yesterday.

1:49:33Yesterday or today?

1:49:35Oh, really?

1:49:36Oh, I didn't get that.

1:49:37Was that the one last week?

1:49:39Yeah, it was part of something, it was

1:49:41a bigger...

1:49:41Oh, I didn't see it then.

1:49:42I missed it.

1:49:44Oh, yeah, that's right.

1:49:50Okay, I read the comments, but I didn't

1:49:53read that section.

1:49:54Alright.

1:49:55This is from the proposed amendment.

1:49:59Thank you.

1:50:00I don't know what that one is.

1:50:01Oh, yeah, I thought it might be interesting.

1:50:02Data centers?

1:50:03Yeah, I read that.

1:50:10So, this is Charlton's.

1:50:12So, it says, uses of structures as, to

1:50:15add definition of data center, amended use regulation,

1:50:19to add new use data centers, and is

1:50:22not allowed in all zoning districts.

1:50:27Yeah.

1:50:27Is not allowed in all zones.

1:50:29Yeah, see, what they're doing is, because...

1:50:31And now the new data center is established

1:50:33in interprohibition of data centers, and directed to

1:50:36the planning board, study the use and reporting

1:50:38of findings under the proposed regulations.

1:50:43Well, I'm trying to figure this out a

1:50:45little bit.

1:50:46Charlton.

1:50:48I read that there's an application for 640

1:50:52-some-odd car parking.

1:50:55I don't know.

1:50:57Under their agenda.

1:50:59I saw their agenda.

1:51:01The environmental impact on that is way more

1:51:05than a data center.

1:51:09I saw it was on their active planning

1:51:14board agenda for the next meetings.

1:51:16It was for some place on Route 20

1:51:23for 640-some-odd car parking?

1:51:26What the heck are they planning?

1:51:29It's got to be some type of...

1:51:31I'm thinking it's got to be something like

1:51:33the place up in East Brookfield for auto

1:51:39deal.

1:51:39No, the auto, no, the railroad.

1:51:42Auctions?

1:51:43Yeah.

1:51:45But it's something on...

1:51:47It came across...

1:51:50In fact, somebody...

1:51:52Actually, somebody posted it on the Southbridge site,

1:51:56actually.

1:51:56I think they're going to do better storage

1:51:58on the top of Hill Road, too.

1:52:00Is that what they're talking about?

1:52:03Well, no.

1:52:04Yeah.

1:52:05Yeah.

1:52:08Look at this right here.

1:52:11It says, Apple Realty, that's it, Worcester Road,

1:52:14for a special permit and site plan approval

1:52:17to construct a gravel vehicle storage and parking

1:52:21area with approximately 695 spaces for company-owned

1:52:27vehicles and equipment, including clearing, grading, earthen berms,

1:52:31stormwater.

1:52:32No buildings are proposed.

1:52:33The property is shown on the assessor's map.

1:52:3636, boom, boom, boom.

1:52:38But 695 cars on a gravel parking lot.

1:52:44I know where that is.

1:52:46I can't see anything that big there.

1:52:49What's the number of Worcester Road?

1:52:54253.

1:52:55You know, that's on a hill.

1:52:57Hey, Siri, where is 253 Worcester Road?

1:53:00Can you show me on a map?

1:53:03Here it is on the map.

1:53:07I know where that is.

1:53:11A vacant building is there.

1:53:13It's right where 169 comes onto Route 20.

1:53:19No, this is...

1:53:21Carpenter Road?

1:53:22Carpenter Road, that's where Carpenter Road is.

1:53:24No, this is the...

1:53:27Oh, this is where Instaform was, down off

1:53:32the Charlton Industrial Park, where the lumber mill

1:53:36was back here.

1:53:39Charlton Orchards is up on a hill across

1:53:41the street on Route 20.

1:53:43That's not Carpenter Hill Road, though.

1:53:45No, no, it's at Worcester Road.

1:53:47We didn't say Carpenter Hill.

1:53:48He's doing the battery storage on a different

1:53:50site.

1:53:51But this is a 695-car parking space

1:53:55on gravel, so they're going to probably...

1:53:58That's a wetland back there.

1:53:59They're going to probably clear this whole entire

1:54:01thing out here.

1:54:02So it's across the Charlton Orchards area?

1:54:04Yeah, it's right across the street from the

1:54:06jug handle.

1:54:08Here's the jug handle at Charlton Orchards right

1:54:10here.

1:54:11Here's the road that goes in.

1:54:13Meacham is down there.

1:54:15And they've got some excavators and equipment up

1:54:19along the road they're trying to sell.

1:54:21But Instaform or whatever...

1:54:24Instaform?

1:54:25The one that does the lining of the

1:54:27sewer lines used to be down in this

1:54:30building right here.

1:54:31But it's part of the Charlton Industrial Park.

1:54:36Wow.

1:54:37On a gravel parking.

1:54:40Yeah.

1:54:41But for their own vehicles.

1:54:43That's what it said.

1:54:44For their own vehicles.

1:54:45So you know what?

1:54:47It's got to be something like a Hertz

1:54:50or a rental car company or something.

1:54:53It has to be.

1:54:54Even that, 600 vehicles?

1:54:55Or a dealership.

1:54:57Or a dealership.

1:54:59On gravel?

1:55:00No buildings is it?

1:55:01Yeah, no buildings.

1:55:02But it could be gravel.

1:55:04But you wouldn't want to park cars for

1:55:05long periods of time on gravel because it's

1:55:07going to rust the bottoms out of them.

1:55:10So it's not long-term parking either.

1:55:12It's not a dealership.

1:55:14But I saw that.

1:55:15I saw 690.

1:55:18And it's funny how it's Apple Realty and

1:55:20there's an Apple Orchard up on the hill

1:55:21across the street.

1:55:22I wonder if that was intended.

1:55:24Probably.

1:55:26When they set it up.

1:55:28All right.

1:55:29Okay.

1:55:32We'll have our meeting in two weeks?

1:55:35Yeah.

1:55:36At 8.32?

1:55:38I make a motion to adjourn.

1:55:43Second.

1:55:45Discussion?

1:55:46I don't want to.

1:55:48Thank you.

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