2026-10-05 - City Council

00:12Name and address for the record, please. Calvin Fonseca, 55 Monk Street, Stoughton.

00:21The purpose of this grant of location is due to the new development being built in the area and the two equipment that's currently in the circuit feeding that downtown area, it's in the way.

00:35So we have to relocate it to the other side of the property and to do so, we have to reroute cables all the way in that new location.

00:46So there'll be a small portion of conduit in the sidewalk to kind of reroute to the new location to refeed those two equipments.

00:56Great, thank you. Anybody else here on 2026-130 utility grant of location? Okay, seeing no further public comment, I will close this public hearing at 631 p.m.

01:15Good evening, I'd like to call the Monday, October 5, 635 p.m. public hearing to order. This public hearing is for council order 2026-131 grant of location, National Grid Bayview Ave and Homestead Ave, 2026-131 utility grant of location, National Grid Bayview Ave and Homestead Ave.

01:38Anyone wishing to speak in favor or opposition, please come to the podium, state your name and address. If you do not wish to speak but would like your support or opposition recorded, please sign in on the sheet at the back of the chamber.

01:51Is anybody here on 2026-131? Just name an address again for the record, please. Calvin Fonseca, 55 Monk Street, Stalin.

02:04The purpose for this grant of location, there's a poll currently in front of someone's property, so we decided to move the poll a few feet away in between property lines, so it will be out of view for both customers.

02:17Thank you, Mr. Fonseca. Anybody else here for 2026-131? Sure. I'm here. I'm sorry, Mr. Fonseca, if you can come back up, if you don't mind.

02:29I'm so sorry, I didn't quite hear what you said. It was a poll in front of someone's house. Yes, so currently the poll is kind of in the way of one of the customers like garage, so he's proposing us to move it a few feet, so we decided to move it between two lot lines, so it will be out of the way.

02:45Sorry, I have a question, Richard. Yes, Councillor Jacobs. Do you know what the address is of the house? Because we just paved that whole street.

02:54Homestead Ave. It says the intersection of Homestead and Bayview. It's number 10? Yeah. Because the city just paved that entire neighbourhood, like a week ago.

03:12So this work, I did this about during the summertime, so during the recess I couldn't put in for a grant location at the time, which is why we're doing it now.

03:27And it's in front of someone's garage? Yeah, right in front of one of the customers' property. Is the work already done, Mr. Fonseca? I mean, yeah. No, we need to get approved first before we can even proceed moving the poll.

03:43Do you have any other questions, Councillor Jacobs? No, it's the street behind that. I just need a few minutes. Okay. Councillor McKee.

03:54It doesn't require the street to be torn up again, or is this just sidewalk? It's on the sidewalk. Are there any other questions on 2026-131, Grant of Location, National Grid, Bayview, and Homestead Ave?

04:11Sorry, I'm looking at it right now. And so you're just moving it a little bit further down, like on the property line? Yeah, like eight feet or so.

04:20Yeah, closer towards Bayview Ave? That's going north, yes. That is going north, yes. Yes, it is. All right. Thank you.

04:33Thank you, Mr. Fonseca. Seeing one last call for any public comment on 2026-131. Seeing no further comment, I will close this public hearing at 6.38 p.m.

04:47Good evening, everyone. I'd like to bring the Ordinance Committee meeting for October 5th to order, 6.45. Madam Clerk, would you please call the roll?

05:02Councillor Asch, Councillor Di Bona, Councillor Hubley, Councillor Jacobson, Councillor Maimone, Councillor Rialand, Councillor Ryan, Councillor Yuen, and Chair McKee.

05:13Presented, I remember. Okay, great. Thank you. I'm going to read the open meeting law. Pursuant to the open meeting law, any person may make an audio or video

05:23recording of this public meeting or may transmit the meeting through any medium. Attendees are therefore advised that such recordings or

05:31transmissions are being made, whether perceived or unperceived by those present and are deemed acknowledged and permissible.

05:38So thank you so much for coming, everyone. We are here to discuss setting new raises for the positions of the mayor and council.

05:53So in June, we undid the raises that had been done in 2024 and 2025. And now we're here to try to set them at a fair amount using comparable data and including public input.

06:15So I just want to say that tonight we're going to, I think, proceed in a more kind of deliberate way.

06:25So tonight we won't be talking about specific amounts, but more the process that we go about setting the raises.

06:32So I think maybe we'll start with just the methodology, what information we want to collect, what communities are appropriate comparisons and how that information will be presented to the council and to the public going forward.

06:52So we want to set these amounts. And the goal should be to evaluate the office, not the people in the office.

07:04And yeah, so I just want to start by seeing if that makes sense with people.

07:12Are we are we OK with first talking about how we're going to do these the process of setting these raises rather than diving right into numbers?

07:25Is that all right with everyone? Yeah. So the raises that we're talking about would be going into effect in twenty twenty eight.

07:39So that's what we're going to be trying to do is to set something for the mayor and something for the council in twenty twenty eight.

07:48I wonder if we we could have that discussion right now or we could have maybe a little bit later, whether we also want to discuss a system for incremental raises after that,

07:59because that was one of the raises that was done before starting in the twenty thirties after the big raises took effect.

08:09There were going to be annual raises based on the consumer price index.

08:13So, you know, we've had a long time between raises.

08:18Do we want to just take a minute now to to discuss whether we want to just focus on twenty twenty eight or if we want to also think about

08:30incremental raises for after that? Anyone?

08:37Councillor Hubley. Thank you, Madam Chair.

08:50I guess I don't have so much of a preference which way we approach it.

08:55I'm very happy to hear that we're going to kind of structure this to set expectations that we're not going to try to knock this all off on one night.

09:01Anyone who showed up with that expectation. I think it's great to set expectations for the viewers at home,

09:06folks who took the time to come out here tonight and for all of our colleagues.

09:12I think it makes sense to potentially dive into the data model or like how we're going to structure that conversation about compensation for the next coming term and then maybe go into the way it should progress from there.

09:27I appreciate that. We're going to take a good look at that because I think part of how we got to where we are today has something to do with the lack of a structure in place for having a routine,

09:38whether it's check ins or something that reminds us to address this.

09:43You know, Councillor Devona, to his credit, has brought the compensation number conversation up several times and just at the time his colleagues weren't ready to take it on.

09:51So I appreciate the fourth thought on all of this.

09:54One quick question if you don't mind. We were given some information tonight.

09:59I assume we're not going to be diving too much into this.

10:01Okay, just wanted to make sure because it wasn't on the website so wanted to make sure people knew.

10:04Yeah, no, no.

10:06Okay, great. That's all I have. Thank you very much.

10:10Anybody else on that question?

10:16Councillor Mahoney.

10:23So I think the question at hand is right now just the salary raises and I think once we get through that we can actually have that second conversation about the consumer price index to see because I think it's a good idea.

10:34But at the same time, I think to take those two things on at the same time concurrently, we might be exhausting ourselves too much.

10:39So I think we focus on the raises first.

10:42It could potentially be something that we bring up for the next.

10:44It could be next in the spring or some other time, but we can bring it up afterwards.

10:48Once we get through the first half of it, I would say that when you get to the consumer price index, it should also have some kind of language language in it where we're balancing it with the economy.

10:57So if the economy is not doing well, we should be able to although the administration has been very well about that, too, and the budgets are tight, they don't take their raises.

11:03So it's always an option for them, but we should probably try to build something in so that it's fair and equitable across the board.

11:10>> Thank you. And just to clarify, what was voted in before was based on the consumer price index.

11:17So I'm not saying that we would do that same thing, but something that was the kind of thing.

11:23>> Whatever is determined.

11:23>> Yeah.

11:26>> Getting used to the system.

11:36Okay. Yeah.

11:36>> Through you, Madam Chair.

11:37Thank you.

11:38I actually -- I respect President Mahoney's sentiments.

11:44I actually think it would be good to get it all done at once.

11:47I think that having -- breaking some of it off and deciding a number now, and then coming back and deciding any potential -- if we are going to be putting in guardrails for increases in the future, which I think we should be doing.

12:00Because, you know, certainly if we can figure it all out now and not have to put that back on a council in the future, I think that would be certainly my preference.

12:14And that's -- I know what a lot of our discussions have been over the last year.

12:19So I would like to see it all kind of buttoned up at once, but I understand the idea to break it out as well.

12:24>> Okay.

12:33>> Thank you, Madam Chair.

12:34Through you, apologies.

12:35That was one question I forgot to ask that I had written down, which is similar to how we're handling the floc conversation where we're having a special night where people can come in and speak in public hearing.

12:50Is it our thought that we would do the same for this topic, or would we count on open forum to cover that?

13:00>> So that's something that is going to be part of our discussion tonight about how steps going forward.

13:05But my intention and what I put in the order is to have a public hearing specifically for this.

13:11But I think it might make sense to do it after we've presented the data, and then maybe some analysis as well so that people can come to it and be able to weigh in on various options.

13:31>> Thank you, Madam Chair.

13:31Just one comment I wanted to clarify, because when we've talked about these raises in the past, and we did repeal them before we broke for the summer, there was an ongoing court case.

13:43But I know that on September 30th, there was a final judgment from the Norfolk Superior Court Judge Rosemary Connolly, who ruled in favor of the plaintiffs.

13:52Can we just get confirmation that the city is not going to pursue any appeal of that judgment, that it is in fact adjudicated in the Superior Court?

14:08>> Through you, Madam Chair, I cannot, that's a question for the city clerk's office.

14:18>> We'll try to find that out before the next meeting.

14:26Okay, and all right, so we have some votes maybe in favor of setting the 2028 raises, and then a vote in favor of handling them both.

14:38I think maybe we can also return to this.

14:41It might, as we discuss the raises and what our research finds from other communities, that might also bring up some good ideas that we might just be able to knock out relatively quickly.

14:55So okay, all right, so I think that going forward, too, it will make sense to probably separate out the discussions for the mayor's salary and the council's salary just because they're very different roles.

15:23They'll be using similar data sets, of course, from different communities, and we'll be going through the same kind of process, but different questions might arise.

15:39So it might make sense to handle them separately rather than kind of both at the same time.

15:45Does that make sense so that we'll just focus on one first and then even potentially in the same meeting, but we could start discussion of another one that will kind of separate them, any issues with that?

16:08Okay, yeah, because in our system, so I'll just do a little overview of city government in Massachusetts anyway. 59 communities have like a city type government, and we're one of those, and the other type is like a town meeting type where basically all of the residents are the legislators.

16:39So in a city type government, like a council tends to be the legislative body.

16:46And in some communities, there's a mayor and a council like here, and in some communities, there's a manager and a council.

16:56And so the mayor's discussion would probably be looking at that type of government and whether we include different communities that have slightly different ways of running.

17:11And the council, legislative and budget responsibilities, and oversight.

17:19Okay, so all right, so we'll have separate discussions, focusing on the different roles.

17:34The next thing is to talk about comps, comparable communities. This is where I think the bulk of our work will happen.

17:48So, you know, population is an obvious one, we are about 100,000 people. So it would make sense to look at other communities probably that are about that same size but as I was just saying before, we have this strong mayor form of government where the mayor gets to

18:08appoint people the department heads and proposes the budget and puts people on boards and commissions, and the legislature can oversee them, like approve the budget, but can't really, you know, it doesn't do any hiring or anything like that.

18:28The alternative type of city government in Massachusetts, the manager council type, the council actually is sort of the boss of the manager, they hire the manager and they can fire the manager and the manager reports to the council.

18:47So that's a different type of government so I think we might want to be sensitive to that.

18:56In this list, which we won't go through, I've included, you can take a look later at your leisure and we'll put this online.

19:05I've just given printouts of the Massachusetts Municipal Association has listed communities and what type of government they have. So I've put little check marks to the ones next to the ones that are mayor council types.

19:23And I've kind of crossed the ones out that I've started looking into.

19:30So, these are the ones in Massachusetts, but, you know, there's also of course, mayor council types in other states and other states. So, we can think about government type. So we want to think about what criteria we should have to look at this so I have some ideas for what these factors might be.

20:02I'll just throw some out and then maybe if anyone has any additional ideas, they can suggest them. Does that sound good.

20:13So, population, operating budget, number of employees, form of government, which includes like the executive authority and legislative location, geographic or economic region.

20:35We might have to do some factors to convert if there's a much smaller community where the cost of living is cheaper, but we can do that.

20:45And whether it's a full time versus part time position, we can also look at data from the US Bureau of Labor Statistics. There's legislator salaries.

20:58So, I just want to throw it out to you. Are there any other factors you think we should add to this list of things we're going to find for these communities that we decide on.

21:13Thank you, Madam Chair, you can also maybe throw in for the council side is how many counselors per town or city. Yes.

21:23Just because I know, I believe it's Wayne it might be 13 and I think Boston has more than us, and then more than nine I think Braintree has nine but they're a lot less in population.

21:34So, I think that's another factor you could probably bring in.

21:38Anyone else.

21:43Thank you, Madam Chair, through you.

21:48Yeah, thank you, Council Davona that's a really good point and I just wanted to kind of expand expand upon that.

21:54When you look at Quincy and its population change over the years.

22:00When it comes to pay increases for the city council I was supposed to focusing primarily on the mayor for the beginning for it's at the start.

22:08Quincy in the past I want to say 15 to 20 years has actually grown in population and entire ward.

22:15So, each ward each ward counselor is has basically, you know, one six more constituents than we did 15 or so years ago, which means more calls which means more issues which, and we have a more complex infrastructure.

22:32So I think definitely taking in the population size that we're responsible for responding to is an important factor when looking at the council position.

22:44Thank you.

22:45Thank you.

22:47Thank you, Madam Chair.

22:55So, I know that compared to the different city and the towns, it's important.

23:04And I also want to just remind people, all elected officials are public servants.

23:11So their salary is not comparable to CEO at the private company, and because the role is different like CEO see if they made a mistake, they can get fired the next day, but the elected officials, you have to wait until next election.

23:36Also, CEOs, they have to have a specific professional experience and credentials, but the elected officials, you just need to get enough votes.

23:49So that's the difference.

23:51So when we consider about the salaries, which you can't just compare like all the private companies, you'll get a how much and you like have a big budget, a big population so you get higher.

24:07Because that's a different loss. I just want to remind the people that. Thank you.

24:11That's a good point. Some of us were at the Kennedy Center earlier today getting our flu shots with some state officials and they some of the public health people were saying that it's hard to get public health nurses because hospitals pay, you know, it's really hard to compete with that.

24:29So, you know, I think it's a good point, but I think it's a good point because we're not going to look at any of the private sector is definitely more.

24:38I would argue and I don't know if anyone would argue against us but we're not going to look at any CEO salaries we're going to stick to city governments.

24:50Yeah. And I guess I'll just say this and it's possible that we could look at, you know, other city government types than the ones that are have mayor councils.

25:00I would tend to argue that we should stick. We've got enough of them here to have a good data set.

25:06I would argue that we should stick to similar as possible to our government structure. Does anyone disagree? No. Okay. All right.

25:20Okay. So I've got population, operating budget, number of employees, form of government. I think we're going to want to look at, as I've been doing this research, it's actually time consuming and difficult research because every city budget of every town is written differently in a different format, contains different information.

25:47So it's actually can be hard to find the data for just like a salary of a mayor or salary of a council or whatever. So sometimes you have to call the office or do a, you know, an email or something or sometimes there's, you know, other way, other things.

26:06But I think we should probably specify the fiscal year 2026 budget when we're looking at the salaries for mayor and council because in some communities outside of Massachusetts, their fiscal years and possibly inside of Massachusetts, their fiscal years don't run July.

26:26They don't start in July like ours do. So are we all okay with starting in FY2026, looking at that data so we can kind of compare time as well? Okay. The other thing that I would just like to note, oh, I'm sorry, Councillor Hubley.

26:42Thank you, Madam Chair. I know from running my first meeting up there, it's sometimes hard to see both sides. So no offense taken, of course.

26:54I think if the if there's a really good comp, but the data isn't for other reasons, but the data isn't readily available, we could possibly just adjust for inflation looking at a previous year's data.

27:08So just to have a complete data set if there's a really compelling comp based upon the other factors. The other thing that occurred to me, and I'll throw this out just for consideration and maybe we make this a secondary measure.

27:20But I've worked for different organizations that have different structures and different reporting and it's largely based around filling in positions with complimentary skills.

27:33So some CEOs might choose to have a lot more people working for that person, whereas some are more directly involved. So maybe one factor to look at is just the total cost of the executive office itself would be a secondary factor to look at.

27:49Okay, that's great. Thank you.

27:57Okay, so, and I like that I will maybe we'll go on to this, how to do the data but I, I think we should have like a little way to do like an asterisk if we have anything like that for, you know, we didn't we couldn't find the data for this year but we, you know, here's 2025 or something.

28:19Okay, so we have council salary from the 2026 budget. Some communities have a different council president salary. So, that might be an interesting thing to look at just to just to have an area where we note that down.

28:36Some councils have stipends that they give to councils counselors. Sometimes you can find that they'll say certain councils are full time or part time. I was surprised to learn that in our city code our city council is officially full time.

29:00So it says 1820 hours per year, which works out to like 52 weeks at 35 hour weeks so it is a full time job according to the code.

29:13And some other councils will say whether they have that or not Boston, for example is full time Somerville is full time.

29:21So that might be an interesting data point. It might be interesting to know, like the staffing of the council office in addition to the size of the, like, the body itself.

29:36One council I saw had a discretionary budget that they were giving out grants to community members I mean I'm just, I'm, these are all not things that will have but I'm just throwing out things that there might be like a little area for interesting things that we find.

29:57Yeah, and if we have if we want to use another community outside of this area even in another place in Massachusetts that might be very different economically. We can use kind of a factor to convert that data so there's a way to kind of make it more comfortable.

30:21So, anything else that we can think of that we might want to include. Okay, so that if we're okay with that set of data.

30:40I think if we, did you have something, thank you, Madam Chair, I just forget to say, like, a private companies see all the job is to earn money for the company, but for the public officer for the mayor, his job is not a money, he's just to spend the money.

31:09Or to wisely spend tax dollars money I think that's important. So I don't know if you will add a job performance in the salary consideration or not, how, how would you propose to do that.

31:29I don't know like if I don't know if you do every year, or every 10 or, or if you want to add the job performance consideration, or you just don't don't do it at all.

31:46I guess when we're thinking about comparing Quincy to other communities. As I found like it's, it's really hard to find some of the basic data. So, if you had a suggestion for a number that might be relatively easy to find for these communities.

32:06We could add that to the consideration just, it's, it might be tricky because there's, you know, there's a lot to explain behind these things but we could we could add it and just see what what comes of it that what would you suggest.

32:24I'm just wondering, have you found any example like other city or towns, they use this method at job performance.

32:35It's a factor to see, I have not, not so far, this is, I think that would be more of the manager city manager or city town manager position.

32:47In that case, you know they're hired job description certain qualifications and certain requirements and then they come before the council and they sort of say I've hit this goal and not that goal and their job performances is overseen by the council

33:05I would say probably not for me for elected officials. Okay, thank you.

33:14Okay, so now that we have a list.

33:19We did you have something to say. Okay, so now that we have a list, I think I was thinking how could we do this, such that it can put it all into one single spreadsheet that we can then that can be shared out to us so

33:39I have spoken with the council clerk and she's willing to work with me on creating a Google form. So we can have all these little fields to put in, and then we can just submit it and then whenever we are going to have our next meeting she can share it with people so we'll have a deadline

34:01to try to get some of this data in. And then we can talk about it. And so does that sound okay to everyone as a way to sort of, because I was thinking gosh if we email everything it's going to be a pain to have to copy and paste but if we just have a Google form.

34:20All right, so I have been working on. So as I said there's 59 communities with the city form of government.

34:41Many of them have mayor council forms, and 15 of them are specifically called plan a government types, which is our type of government, our charter.

34:53So, I have looked at these communities I'll have to go back and add data from the list that we just made.

35:02But on these handouts I've kind of crossed out the ones that I've done, which doesn't mean that other people can't do those ones if you're interested it would be actually probably helpful to cross check my data.

35:19But if we've decided that we're going to do mayor council type government.

35:27These are all the mayor council ones in Massachusetts so I personally think it might make sense to look at the top few on this list that are most closely similar to Quincy in population size.

35:42And I know everyone has different capacity levels, I think we'll have a lot of data I have some data from outside of Massachusetts as well.

35:53But if anyone would like to even take just one, you can, you can either say it now or just do it and if two people do it then it's fine and we'll just cross check it but does anyone want to take one or even two to kind of do this research and put it into the Google

36:15form. So yeah, I assume you know the ones are crossed out we don't need to do you'll, you'll upload that information or you want. Yeah, I've done those ones but you're welcome to do those if you want to do New Bedford and Lawrence New Bedford and Lawrence.

36:33Okay. Okay.

36:45Thank you, Madam Chair. I'll do more than involve them are do Brockton and framing him. Okay. Let me do Brockton in the New Bedford. Did you say Brockton in New Bedford. Yeah. Okay.

37:26I think Richard's doing Brockton but you can do it too if you want. And Lawrence Lawrence. So we're down to revere I think you might want to look at this one, you might want to look at this second page on the back of this page, the front page.

37:59I put them in order of population. Yes, so I have so far me for Boston Springfield. Councilor Ash for Brockton me for Quincy and Lynn, you for New Bedford and Lawrence me for Fall River me for Newton Somerville.

38:26Councilor Ash framing him me for Haverill, Councilor Ryan Malden and Waltham.

38:45Okay, we must. Okay. And I got to this screen. That's good. Yeah, it's gonna take you. It's gonna take you a lot longer than you think. I know. Yeah.

39:00Thank you. Did you where if you go to the second page of this handout, we're down to chickopee Peabody Peabody with soon. I'm never sure if I'm saying these right.

39:30Everett has ever taken and I don't know, Pittsburgh. Okay, you'll let us know what we have to do, right? Yes, I will. I'll send you it'll be a Google form. So you'll just fill it out with as much as you can. Some of it. Yeah, might be hard.

39:51Do you have the sources of information that we're supposed to or just trying to find it on their, their town website city? Well, we'll talk about that in a second. Yeah.

39:59I didn't know there was gonna be homework, Maggie. I know, I'm sorry. And if, you know, if you don't get to all of the ones you've committed to, it's okay. I think, you know, typically salary studies don't have this many things, but I, who doesn't love data.

40:14So let's, let's see if we can do it. I think it's also just an interesting, it's just an interesting activity or thing to do to learn about other communities and how they work and, you know, okay.

40:27So, does anyone on this side want to do anything? Okay. Oh, yes. We still have chickpea. Oh, I'm sorry. Pick chickpea, peabody, monsouin.

40:46Yeah, I'll do chickpea, peabody. Okay. Councilor Davona, did you want to do anything? You don't have to.

40:57I would like to throw a little wrench in this and I'd like to take a look at Cambridge as a different form of government. But there's six counselors.

41:06I mean, there's nine counselors on there. They have about 122,000 population, but the way they run their government is they have nine council members for every two years and they appoint one of the council members as the mayor, but they have a city form like a town manager type of thing.

41:25County Cork, which is in Ireland, does that too. They have 50 counselors and they appoint one mayor every year to run that. They've come here and the council, we have a great networking division with them.

41:41Mr. Walker could tell you a lot about that. We still have a good relationship with them, but I think we should also include Cambridge because a lot of these towns and cities you're talking about, cities, they're a lot less in population than us.

41:55Yes, these are all ones that are mayor council systems, so that one's a little bit different and I think we might put it in a slightly different category, but it's okay. We can include it and just sort of deal with that.

42:08And just say it's a little different form of government, but you're only looking at, I mean, on your list, there's only Brockton, Springfield and Boston that has more of a population than us, so I would assume that a lot of these communities, their salaries are going to be a lot less because they're just less population.

42:25That's true. As our city has grown over the years, I see it being a little different, so okay.

42:34And you're welcome to look beyond this list. I would say probably would be most helpful to compare mayor council governments if you found any, you could find some in New Hampshire, wherever you want to look, of larger cities as well.

42:51Okay, so Cambridge, Councilor Domona, you had Cambridge.

43:01All right. That's great. So, I've done Newton. Yeah, yeah.

43:15I've done the ones that are crossed out because they're all planning.

43:24Okay, all right. Exactly. If you can't sleep, you can do more. It might help you sleep.

43:40Okay, so now you had asked Councilor Riley about what kind of data and that's a good thing to talk about too because, as I said, every city is different.

43:50I'm kind of shocked that some of them don't seem to have these lines in their budgets.

43:58They may be in ordinances and still instead they may be in, I think one community I found is in like a state act for some reason I'm not quite sure maybe that was a home world petition I'm not sure how that got there but.

44:13So there, I think, I think we should try to verify it through primary sources so not to avoid like news stories or something like that or AI, you know, find the source and link to the source or include the source.

44:33Maybe we can create like a Google Drive as well in case people can just email things to the council clerk and she can upload them so we can check.

44:43So some places you might find things, these salary lines are municipal budgets ordinances.

44:51Some cities put their payroll records online.

44:56Some, some of these are in city charters or city codes.

45:01Some of them are on city websites, I've called departments and, you know, records requests.

45:09And again, like you're probably not find all, all of this data but as much as we can find for any one of them. Does that sound good so that we stick to it and I would say if we don't have a number maybe we'll have some way of of putting an asterisk, if it's not the latest like FY 2026 or something, or if you really can't get anything just skip it we will have enough data, so better to do that than to put something that we're not sure about.

45:42And if you see two different sources I think we should flag it until we can determine, you know, which is correct some other way.

45:50Does that make sense? Yeah. Okay.

45:56So, then moving forward so we'll have this one single spreadsheet with all of these numbers.

46:05I think it would make sense to send that out at the next, the next opportunity.

46:13So, the Council Clerk will be the only one who has access to the spreadsheet at first.

46:19And then when it becomes public we'll get it.

46:23We can have a short meeting to maybe go over some of that data and anything that we thought was interesting or if we had any questions about it.

46:33And then at a future meeting, we can each go home with that data and then run whatever analysis we want to run on and I'm going to run this so you don't have to do it but again, everyone's welcome to do it and then at a future public meeting we'll discuss that analysis if that makes sense Council.

46:57Yeah. Thank you, Madam Chair, through you. It's kind of occurred to me that some of the towns and some of the cities we look at might actually be in a similar situation that we've been in.

47:10And so I think it's worth noting or having a footnote per se as to what's their mechanism for determining pay increases.

47:19Have they maybe, you know, not addressed it in 10 years either. And so, much like if we're gathering 2024 data we can adjust for inflation.

47:30Likewise, we can do for a municipality that hasn't addressed this issue much like we had for many years.

47:37So I think that's the only way we're really going to get apples for apples or as close to that as possible.

47:43Otherwise, it's like apples and ironing boards. Yeah, I think that's a really good point. I think you might find some interesting things just with different communities.

47:53I'm like, Oh, that's how they do that. That is really kind of cool.

47:58So, yes, I will add that if there's any other interesting things that you find, or if there's a way that they do determine future raises.

48:10Okay, and Councillor Yuen. Thank you, Madam Chair. So I'm just wondering, so it seems each Councillor pick up several cities to try to analyze.

48:27And I think we probably should also invite residents there who are interested to do some analysis and they can submit their report to City Council.

48:39So, you maybe can tell usually from which factors the fact, just like you tell City Councillors how to run this analysis, you can also tell residents.

48:56So, however interested, they can do their research, they can do their analysis and submit their report. I think we also need to listen to residents say.

49:10Yes, so I think when we have this spreadsheet, we will definitely share it with the public and we will share it with ourselves and we can each go back and run whatever analysis we would like to run.

49:27I think that we have to be careful with ourselves not to share that until, you know, not to share the analysis part, the data we can share and then we can talk briefly about at a meeting.

49:41We'll have to do the analysis at a public, we'll discuss our analysis at a public meeting.

49:47And I think if, you know, the spreadsheet will be out there for the public. So if they want to do their own analysis, they're welcome to email it to us.

49:58And we will also, again, as we've said, have a public hearing so people can, in addition to emailing it, briefly describe it, you know, if they've found something interesting.

50:10I think that's a good, my preferred way of doing it, but if other people have other ideas, yeah.

50:18Yeah, just a quick thank you, Madam Chair. I'm wondering, like, for public hearing for these periods, should we do it as soon as possible? So because usually when you have a public hearing, people are informed.

50:33More people know that and so more people can get involved, start to doing research, then submit a report.

50:42So I thought it's doing early, then doing late after we already did a report, then we have a hearing.

50:51Okay, I think we should talk about that one because that's an interesting idea, whether to get the data and then just have a public hearing at that point and then do the analysis, including the public hearing,

51:07and then do the setting of the ordinance or to do the analysis discussion and then have a public hearing to allow people to kind of weigh in on our various ideas.

51:21So I'd actually really like to hear what people have to say. Oh, oh, 730. Okay. All right. We have to open the City Council meeting. So can we come back?

51:34We can come back and just, yeah, we'll recess for a minute and then we'll, we will not take too much more time.

51:39I'm going to call the City Council meeting October 5th, 730 to order. Could you call the roll?

52:28Council Ash, Council DiBona, Council Hubley, Council Jacobs, Council McKee, Council Riley, Council Ryan, Council Yuen, President Mahoney.

52:46If we could stand for a moment of silence. And if we could turn the pledge of allegiance to the flag, pledge of allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.

53:18Madam Secretary, read the open meeting line.

53:21Pursuant to the open meeting line, any person may make an audio or video recording of this public meeting or may transmit the meeting for any medium.

53:28Attendees are therefore advised that such recordings or transmissions are being made whether perceived or unperceived by those present in that deemed acknowledged and permissible.

53:39Thank you.

53:42So before the agenda starts tonight, we have, we have a couple of honors that we want to present this evening.

53:49And I'm going to start, I'm going to say it up here because my voice isn't carrying, but I want to speak directly to the people I'm talking to.

53:54So good evening. I would like to take a few moments to recognize a very special connection between the City of Quincy and the Republic of Sierra Leone.

54:02Recently, we had the privilege of gathering at the United First Parish Church, the Church of the Presidents, and reflecting on President John Quincy Adams' courageous role in the Amistad case in his defense of the Mandi people of Sierra Leone.

54:15Before the United States Supreme Court, to get that gathering was a meaningful, was meaningful not only because of where we were standing, but because of the history that still means today.

54:26History does not live in buildings, artifacts, documents, or lineage. History travels with us, it connects us, and it humanizes us.

54:34Its lessons belong to all of us. When we can stand together under one roof and reflect on the enormous differences made by those who came before us, we're reminded about the courage that was not only limited geographically.

54:47Their actions were not important, not only important to the people of the United States, they reached across the ocean and affected lives of many people they had never met.

54:55More than 180 years later, history has brought Quincy and Sierra Leone together again. That's what makes this connection so powerful.

55:04We are not simply remembering history, we're continuing it.

55:07Tonight we are honored to have with us Special Envoy Dr. Brema Rogers, who is representing Sierra Leone, and will generously accept recognitions on behalf of His Excellency President Julius Mata Biou,

55:21Her Excellency, Dr. Fatima Mata Biou, First Lady of the Republic of Sierra Leone, and His Excellency Ambassador Amara Sheikh Mohammed Sowas.

55:32The first recognition is for the President Biou. I'm going to come up here now, so you're very welcome.

55:57So the first one is for, I'm going to mess this up now, so hold on for one second.

56:04First one is for His Excellency Julius Mata Biou, President of the Republic of Sierra Leone, Office of the President Sierra Leone,

56:17the Quincy City Council is proud to honor his historic connection between Quincy and Sierra Leone,

56:22and recognize President John Quincy Adams' courageous defense of the Mendy people of Sierra Leone.

56:27Helping secure their freedom before the United States Supreme Court in 1841, held in the United States First Parish,

56:33the resting place of the President Adams and his First Lady Louisa Catherine Adams.

56:38And this gathering celebrated the history of courage, freedom, and an enduring pursuit of justice. The City of Quincy extends its warmest welcome to His Excellency President Julius Mata,

56:48his wife, and the Ambassador as well, celebrates this meaningful connection between our communities.

56:56So we have this for you, and we have a similar one for His Excellency Dr. Fatima Mata Biou, the First Lady of the Republic,

57:04and this was her second trip, I just want to make sure I'm mentioning this.

57:08This was the First Lady's second visit to the City of Quincy, and we were delighted to welcome her back.

57:13We certainly hope it will not be her last, and she is always welcome with a warm heart here in Quincy.

57:21And in recognition of the Ambassador Sowa, with thanks for helping strengthen our relationships between Sierra Leone and the City of Quincy.

57:28Finally, Dr. Rogers, it was a pleasure to meet you, and I appreciate the fact that you personally helped bring our two very important groups of people together.

57:41We want to thank you for being here tonight and representing Sierra Leone, and for helping carry this relationship forward.

57:47Please bring our warmest, warmest regards back to President Biou, First Lady Mata Biou, and Ambassador Sowa.

57:54And I also want to say, we look forward to welcoming you, always back to the City of Quincy,

58:00and perhaps next time, instead of everyone traveling to Quincy, some of us may have the opportunity to travel to visit you.

58:09So I thank you very much, and welcome.

58:12Good evening, ladies and gentlemen.

58:22Good evening, City of Quincy.

58:25Good evening, City Council at large.

58:27It's a privilege for me to stand in front of you, that history repeats itself.

58:35The individual we're talking about, Shane B. Pierce, which is pronounced in Spanish, La Amistad.

58:46The language that speak there is me.

58:50I speak the same language with the President, His Excellency.

58:54When he was coming here, he asked me, "Dr. Rogers, is there any possibility this hidden Bible, I can come and see it?"

59:06Who am I to say no?

59:08I tried my possible best with the museum, and I met Annie Mahoney.

59:15Thank you very much for making it possible for me to be here today, tonight.

59:20It was a very busy, busy time.

59:26And I have to stay behind to receive this on behalf of the President and the people of Sierra Leone.

59:34We are very grateful for what Quincy Adams did for us.

59:40If it was not Quincy Adams, we wouldn't be talking about history.

59:44He did his possible best.

59:47The case went as far as Supreme Court, he released us, we were free.

59:55But we told him, "We want to go back home," and he make it possible.

1:00:01So why do you think we're going to forget about the city of Quincy?

1:00:07We will not.

1:00:08So I'm here with a message from His Excellency that he want to extend special relationship between Sierra Leone and the city of Quincy.

1:00:22Because if he was not Quincy, I won't be standing here.

1:00:26We'll be talking about something else.

1:00:29By me giving him this, this is going to be a surprise.

1:00:35And city of Quincy, you surprise me.

1:00:41We're going to surprise you in a very good way.

1:00:43We do have a lot of Sierra Leoneans, even in Quincy here.

1:00:48But when he asked me to do this confused and difficult job, we came to find out.

1:00:58There are more Sierra Leoneans who they're going to be coming here in the city of Quincy to see that Bible.

1:01:05And I even have, I was so impressed, same with Pierre, when he was arrested, he wrote this.

1:01:17It's in that Bible.

1:01:18And this is 180 years ago.

1:01:21Even my great-great-grandfather, we are not born by that time.

1:01:26But I have it in my hand.

1:01:27So why should I forget about this history?

1:01:31I'm going to take this message to His Excellency, his wife.

1:01:37She had been here twice.

1:01:38In fact, it was a challenge.

1:01:41His Excellency said, well, you've been there one time.

1:01:44I want to go back myself and see it.

1:01:46Thank you very much.

1:01:48The city of Quincy, the mayor was there.

1:01:51He saw it.

1:01:53He touched it.

1:01:54He read it.

1:01:56He was satisfied.

1:01:57So thank you very much.

1:02:00City of Quincy, with all this political, brilliant people I'm talking to tonight, I'm out of words.

1:02:09But we're going to create a new history, like you said.

1:02:15We're going to continue.

1:02:17Don't be surprised if we're going to bring the president again for something else within the city of Quincy.

1:02:24So thank you very much, city councilors, politicians, citizens of Quincy.

1:02:32Most of you are not there.

1:02:35But this is what Quincy did for some of us.

1:02:39So history has been established.

1:02:41It's not going to be erased.

1:02:44We're just going to continue it.

1:02:45Thank you very much for your gesture.

1:02:47Thank you very much, the city of Quincy and the mayor.

1:02:50Thank you.

1:02:51Thank you.

1:02:52We're going to take a quick recess just to get some pictures.

1:03:02Sure.

1:03:03We're going to call the meeting back to order.

1:06:39And at this point, I'm going to recognize Councillor Ash for recognizing the White Cane Awareness Month.

1:06:45Thank you, Madam President.

1:06:47I wanted to take a moment and speak about White Cane Awareness Month for some of those who may not be privy to what it means.

1:06:56But also to highlight some of the initiatives, I think, in the city that we're moving forward with in recognition of White Cane Awareness Month.

1:07:05White Cane Awareness Month is a month dedicated to honoring the blind community and utilizing and recognizing the White Cane as a symbol of independence

1:07:18and as a symbol of those hearing impaired individuals being able to show that they are, you know, of course, able to transgress through the city

1:07:30and certainly use that cane as a symbol of independence, safety, empowerment, and for the blind community.

1:07:42But citywide, I wanted to take a moment as well when we look at a lot of the infrastructure problems, issues, discussions, we're highlighting at the same time ADA accessibility.

1:07:57And I think that is very important to note at the council level.

1:08:01So if I am tasked or if I look into, with former Commissioner Grenin and certainly Director Allie Luft now in charge of the Traffic Department,

1:08:13if we look at an intersection for mobility issues or for if the walk time seems to be off or if it's too long.

1:08:22And those, part of that work and that the hall of getting all of those reviews done is recognizing the blind and the visually impaired communities

1:08:33and bringing all of those intersections, you know, back up so that you hear, say, things that we take for granted, like the chirp,

1:08:41you know, when you're pressing the button to be able to cross the street.

1:08:44So I do know, you know, I've spoken with and certainly represented on a number of issues, those who may have visual impairments or be blind in my neighborhood.

1:08:57And I know that this is a very important month to that community.

1:09:01And I really will just want it to take a moment and recognize that.

1:09:04And also certain organizations like the Lions Club, the Massachusetts Commission for the Blind,

1:09:11there is a low and visually impaired support group that meets at the four of a clubhouse.

1:09:19And if any of those, if you know people affected with loss of vision or the visually impaired, certainly reach out and connect them with some of those organizations if they're not already connected.

1:09:31But the White Cane Awareness Month is recognized every October and White Cane Awareness Day is October 15th. So I did want to take a moment.

1:09:43And if you or anyone that you know could benefit from a vision screening, the Lions Club should have they have screenings every every so often.

1:09:53So please reach out to the Lions Club. Thank you.

1:09:58Moving on, Councilor Ash again for recognizing Domestic Violence Awareness Month.

1:10:03October is also Domestic Violence Awareness Month. And I wanted to highlight D.O.V.E. specifically.

1:10:09D.O.V.E. as many of my colleagues know, stands for Domestic Violence Ended.

1:10:14They are based in Quincy. They're the only Norfolk County based domestic violence awareness organization working for victims to end partner in domestic violence in Quincy and surrounding areas.

1:10:30Over the years, they have helped adults, elders, seniors, teens, children abused and all of those abused emotionally, financially, physically or sexually.

1:10:41D.O.V.E. does incredible work. There are a number of different drives and fundraisers this month to highlight their work in and around the community.

1:10:52The Four River Bridge was on Saturday the 3rd and on Friday the 30th lit up purple for D.O.V.E. in recognition of Domestic Violence Awareness Month.

1:11:05And they have their annual Harvesting Hope Gala is on October 30th.

1:11:10It's the Friday night before Halloween at the Blue Hills Country Club.

1:11:14They will celebrate 50 years of service in 2028. Thank you.

1:11:20>> Excellent. Thank you very much, Councilor Ash.

1:11:23So we're moving on to the open forum portion of the evening.

1:11:27I just want to remind people when they come up if they could state their name, address and city that they live in.

1:11:32Obviously it's going to be the City of Quincy when we start.

1:11:34And we're going to have a three minute tops.

1:11:36And when I ask you or get close to your three minutes, I'll give you a warning.

1:11:39And then if we continue, we'll have to shut it off.

1:11:42I know you know all the rules.

1:11:43So thank you very much.

1:11:44We're going to start with Maria Mulligan.

1:11:46Hi, Maria.

1:11:58>> Can you hear me?

1:12:03All right.

1:12:05Maria Mulligan, 21 Winthrop Ave.

1:12:07I'm independent, not representing any group.

1:12:11Bear with me while I share a few thoughts about the potential design opportunities at Nickerson Squaw Rock Park.

1:12:20One of the most distinctive features of the park is the great lawn that overlooks the ocean to the east.

1:12:27On that lawn, I imagine the members of the tribe performing their rituals, as they note on their website, as stated, ritual dance, drum, rattles, song and rites of passage all enable the present day Massachusetts Drive tribe to transfer the knowledge of their ancestors to succeeding generations.

1:12:52We have an oral tradition of storytelling, just as our ancestors did.

1:12:59That passes on the Massachusetts worldview of how the world works, our relationship with all of nature and why things are the way they are.

1:13:12I mentioned in the community meeting that, to my eye, the current size of the great lawn is not large enough for the statue in these dance rituals.

1:13:25More open spaces needed to enhance the functionality and aesthetics of that lawn for the tribe.

1:13:34So why aren't we contemplating expanding that great lawn?

1:13:41To the members of the administration, let's meet up on Friday, 11 o'clock, October 9th.

1:13:49Let me show you how magnificent that lawn could be if it was much, much larger.

1:13:57Once you see it, it will be a no-brainer.

1:14:00I hope you'll join me.

1:14:03It will only take an hour of your time.

1:14:05I'll have coffee and munchkins.

1:14:07And don't worry.

1:14:09This is not a standout.

1:14:10It's not a protest.

1:14:11No media will be there.

1:14:13I just want to show you what I see and imagine what could be.

1:14:18Thank you very much.

1:14:19Thank you.

1:14:20Except we have Gail Callahan.

1:14:26Hello.

1:14:30Gail Callahan, 437 Quarry Street, Quincy.

1:14:33Okay.

1:14:40So we have talked about Tom Clasby endlessly.

1:14:43Endlessly.

1:14:44Over and over and over and over again.

1:14:46And quite frankly, I think enough.

1:14:48We have plenty of other things that you have to do.

1:14:50You've got to move on to try to figure out the race situation.

1:14:53The city at large.

1:14:55Your budgets and all of that.

1:14:57This is a done deal.

1:14:59Over and done with.

1:15:00He's in jail.

1:15:01It's enough.

1:15:02I am tired of hearing it.

1:15:04I'm not going to be able to hear it.

1:15:06I'm not going to be able to hear it.

1:15:09I'm not going to be able to hear it.

1:15:10I'm not going to be able to hear it.

1:15:12I'm not going to hear it.

1:15:13I'm not going to hear it.

1:15:15I'm not going to hear it.

1:15:16I'm not going to hear it.

1:15:17I'm not going to hear it.

1:15:18I'm not going to hear it.

1:15:19I'm not going to hear it.

1:15:20I'm not going to hear it.

1:15:21I'm not going to hear it.

1:15:22I'm not going to hear it.

1:15:23I'm not going to hear it.

1:15:24I'm not going to hear it.

1:15:25I'm not going to hear it.

1:15:26I'm not going to hear it.

1:15:27I'm not going to hear it.

1:15:28I'm not going to hear it.

1:15:29I think that our person in charge of PO's did in fact call New York, did check with

1:15:37the state of New York to make sure that the company that they were dealing with was a

1:15:40vetted company and it was and it had a number.

1:15:45What more could they have done?

1:15:47Would you have wanted them to drive to New York to see it?

1:15:50So I really think that should be done.

1:15:53Granite Links, another one.

1:15:54I don't really mind you wanting to have an updated budget.

1:15:58I think that's fine.

1:16:00But going back 20 years from before the mayor was even there, I don't see any need for that.

1:16:07Go for five years.

1:16:09That's fine.

1:16:10Go back.

1:16:11Check in.

1:16:12I know that Deb had asked for information, got 151 pages.

1:16:15Not all of it was easy to understand and I think made good effort trying to go through

1:16:20it and figure it out and all that kind of stuff.

1:16:22That's fine.

1:16:23Do that.

1:16:24But at the end of the day, sometimes the answers are just the answers.

1:16:29And so do your audit, get it over and done with and then can we please be done with

1:16:35Granite Links once and for all.

1:16:37That would be wonderful.

1:16:38Raises, I do believe in the raises but I always say that anyways.

1:16:42I think you all work hard even though I don't agree with many of you most of the time.

1:16:46I do believe that you work hard.

1:16:48So I'm good with that.

1:16:49I'm good with the mayor.

1:16:50I agree that you should be using the cities.

1:16:53Use that.

1:16:55One final thing.

1:16:56I want to praise the Quincy son.

1:16:58You do a great job.

1:16:59The Quincy son is very -- he tells the good, the bad and the ugly.

1:17:04So the ledger does their thing and that's great but we don't always hear everything

1:17:09for the ledger.

1:17:10We only hear select things whereas I have to say with the son they tell us everything

1:17:16whether we want to hear it or not.

1:17:18So we appreciate that.

1:17:20Thank you very much.

1:17:23Next up, Mary Travers.

1:17:29Mary Travers, 148 presidents, Lane and Quincy.

1:17:34Well well well.

1:17:36Something is certainly coming because last week I watched a witch hunt in this very chamber

1:17:42and it's not that there were any gotcha moments with the presentation of actual facts as concrete

1:17:47evidence.

1:17:49No.

1:17:50It was full of innuendo and a counselor herself said on camera gossip.

1:17:55Not research.

1:17:56Not facts.

1:17:57Gossip.

1:17:58Thank you Mr. Walker and Mr. Timmons for defending the mayor and city employees so

1:18:02vehemently against some not so hidden allegations.

1:18:06I have no idea where the counselor got her script or facts from but from someone who

1:18:11prides himself in doing research you certainly did not do it last week.

1:18:16You dropped the ball, kicked it out of bombs and hit a cheerleader square in the face with

1:18:20it.

1:18:22I guess from your standpoint, which truthfully I never understand, it probably doesn't matter.

1:18:28But what does matter is the audacity to use a private moment like a wedding that happened

1:18:33over 30 years ago when you most likely didn't even live here and then pull it into the muck

1:18:40and mire that was that farce of a meeting.

1:18:45Talk about setting the bar low and then digging a trench to get right under it.

1:18:49I'll give you another example of how severe false accusations can be.

1:18:55Three people that work for a local town's DPW have been arrested in the last three

1:19:00months.

1:19:01So does that also mean someone that works for that town's administration had something

1:19:05to do with attempts to cover it up?

1:19:08Of course it absolutely does not.

1:19:11Absolutely and unequivocally no.

1:19:14Because you cannot control nor are you responsible for another person's behavior.

1:19:20This council must leave the past behind, move into the here and now and on to the future.

1:19:26Every one of us in this city needs to work on positive changes to improve the future

1:19:30of Quincy.

1:19:32I love this city.

1:19:34I have lived here 57 years.

1:19:37I may not agree on everything that happens.

1:19:40But dammit, Quincy is 1,000% better than it ever has been.

1:19:45And that is because of Mayor Koch and his administration.

1:19:49Thank you.

1:19:51Thank you.

1:19:53Thank you.

1:20:03Thank you.

1:20:04Thank you.

1:20:05Thank you.

1:20:07For those of you that don't know where the neck is, I'm sure most of you do, but take

1:20:12a ride down there.

1:20:13You might find it interesting.

1:20:14I want to speak to the proposal that Noel brought up last week about possibly having

1:20:19the open forum very focused on strictly what the agenda is for the city council meeting.

1:20:28As an open forum, we have an opportunity to speak our minds, whether it's good, bad

1:20:33or otherwise.

1:20:34If I want to come up here and talk about the Bill of Rights of the Declaration of Independence,

1:20:39there's no bearing on anything this council is doing.

1:20:42I will.

1:20:43Because it's my goddamn right.

1:20:45Number one, number two, I'm really -- I won't resort to the vernacular, but the situation

1:20:55developed over the weekend where a person -- I won't name her name, but a person was

1:21:02verbally attacked, we'll say, here and there, a son based upon certain things that go on

1:21:13within this council and certain members within this council.

1:21:17That was a very, very simple phrase that Shakespeare wrote in Hamlet.

1:21:25Something is rotten in the state of Denmark or something is rotten in the city council

1:21:29and it extends beyond just the individuals that are here.

1:21:34It extends beyond just some of their followers.

1:21:37It extends beyond and includes a lot of the nonsense that's been going on in places like

1:21:42read it and under false names.

1:21:47Now listen, folks, if some of your followers are willing to say it, put a face to it.

1:21:52Put a name to it.

1:21:53Let them come up here in the city council and address you folks and let them address

1:21:57us.

1:21:58Why not?

1:21:59Is there a problem with that?

1:22:02I don't see a problem with it, but I'm sure a lot of people do.

1:22:06At one point in time, a comment was made on a text message about my body disappearing.

1:22:15Well, it's pretty obvious I'm still here and it's pretty obvious.

1:22:18I haven't committed suicide or nobody's wiped me out.

1:22:21But again, this is the kind of crap that goes on fostered by this council, certain

1:22:28members.

1:22:29It isn't appreciated.

1:22:30It's well beneath you and it's well, well beneath the city of Quincy to have to deal

1:22:34with this stuff.

1:22:36That's all I have to say other than three letters and it's not WF, but it's E-N-C.

1:22:45Remember that in November, 2027.

1:22:51James Dunn.

1:22:55Good evening.

1:23:01James Dunn, 167 Babcock Street.

1:23:04I'm just going to be following up with Hank, with this nonsense, with everything online

1:23:14and everything.

1:23:15If I get a problem with you, I'm going to meet you eye to eye.

1:23:20Okay?

1:23:21No Facebook.

1:23:22I would not have gone Facebook if that officer held his gun to my head.

1:23:26Okay?

1:23:27Facebook marketplace to buy stuff.

1:23:30I made a pamphlet here.

1:23:32This is where your councilors put in the permit from the Nickerson post that Manic Contracting

1:23:42did on, put up the bid bond, contract it, put all the proper paperwork and we demoed

1:23:51the bill.

1:23:53I really don't care about opinions, people's personal thoughts.

1:23:58I was hired for a contract and I fulfilled that contract.

1:24:04So when they're sitting in this room up in that head tonight, come up to me the day

1:24:09we were taking it down.

1:24:12She asked me if there was any asbestos in the building, anything, because she looked

1:24:16it up on the portal and said she saw no paperwork.

1:24:23And I very graciously took up my phone and I showed her the copy of the building permit,

1:24:29which is posted right here, which she put online.

1:24:33Okay?

1:24:36She said okay.

1:24:40And then she progressed to say, I thought I'd put the kibosh on that purchase order.

1:24:45Good luck getting paid.

1:24:50Those were the words.

1:24:52And I very graciously, because most people know me, you don't want to back into a corner

1:24:58with me.

1:24:59Okay?

1:25:01I very graciously told her, I don't really care.

1:25:06I'm very blessed, which I am, thank you, Lord.

1:25:11I am very blessed.

1:25:13I have 13 grandchildren.

1:25:17I can look at myself in the mirror every day and say that I didn't hurt anybody.

1:25:23And if I did, I will look you in the eye and I will make amends to it.

1:25:31But I don't appreciate someone putting my permit with my son.

1:25:35I built the company and gave it to my son.

1:25:38My son at 8 o'clock at night is out in Watertown with a broken water pipe loading feet in

1:25:44the air.

1:25:46He learned anything from me, his work ethics and also his giving.

1:25:53We give more money away to the City of Quincy very quietly than we do for work in the City

1:25:59of Quincy.

1:26:00Be it the elderly, boy scouts, any amount of them.

1:26:05I know my time's up, but this disturbs me that someone's trying to smear my son's name.

1:26:13Maybe you didn't do it purposely, but it's not going away.

1:26:21Bill Zamzo.

1:26:22Bill Zamzo.

1:26:23Thank you for your time.

1:26:24Bill is my third time calling.

1:26:27Bill Zamzo.

1:26:44Good evening, Councillors.

1:26:45Lively evening.

1:26:46Tonight begins consideration of raises for the mayor and yourselves.

1:26:51First up, you should ignore any vaguely calls for a raise for Mayor Koch by law, except

1:26:58in this unique situation.

1:26:59He's the only one who can propose a raise and law did not propose one until he commissioned

1:27:06a bank job of a compensation study and proposed a raise to 275,000 to 395,000 a year, relied

1:27:15on the use of city managers and private sector employees' salaries as comparables.

1:27:22So what if those are entirely different sorts of jobs?

1:27:27Voters railed over the mayor's original proposal for an 89% -- subsequent 89% raise, and most

1:27:32of you were elected because of it, and the court has spoken to it.

1:27:37The office is public service and thus not a career, even though some -- such as arguably

1:27:42been the case in Quincy in recent decades.

1:27:45Be sure to also notice that the office of mayor comes with all manner of unique non-stipendary

1:27:51perks and powers.

1:27:53As such, consider Mayor Wu's recent less raise of $250,000, a raise which he did not

1:27:59seek.

1:28:01Boston has seven times the population of Quincy.

1:28:04I'm not suggesting that the mayor of Quincy be paid around $36,000 a year.

1:28:09Another, the currently proposed mayoral salary increase should be somewhere between $183,000

1:28:15in the ballot petition and the mayor's counter of $225,000.

1:28:21It's reasonable that $183,000 reflects a roughly 2% raise by rank and file employees since

1:28:29the last mayoral raise, and 225 tracks with the concurrent 3% average rate of inflation.

1:28:39The same time, please note that indexing -- so that's your range.

1:28:43You can talk all you want about metrics and everything else, but you've got a $40,000

1:28:46range that you should morally abide by.

1:28:49At the same time, please note that any indexing set raises that have been discussed would

1:28:55clearly appear to violate state law.

1:28:58Granted, promulgating a policy statement on raises for the future is possible, but future

1:29:03raises must be proposed by the mayor and then duly considered by this body.

1:29:09Additionally, there's chapter 17A of the city charter.

1:29:1317A calls for a vote of locals to approve mayoral raises and council raises.

1:29:18Opinion to the contrary of the city's solicitor notwithstanding.

1:29:22Given the city solicitor's wolf of record on revising this council and on other matters,

1:29:27allow me to suggest a simple solution.

1:29:29It's seek and advise your opinion on 17A by a superior court judge.

1:29:33This is a very simple, easy, and inexpensive way to do stuff.

1:29:37Thank you.

1:29:40>> Thank you, Jekyll.

1:29:41Helen Scheiner.

1:29:51>> Good evening.

1:29:52My name is Helen Scheiner.

1:29:53I live at 23 Copley Street.

1:29:55I want to just start out talking about the comment that we started out with talking about

1:30:01the raises, evaluate the office and not the person in the office.

1:30:04I also ask that you evaluate our city.

1:30:08Population doesn't necessarily equate to the effort necessary to run a successful growing

1:30:12city.

1:30:14Community should be considered in the -- the community should be considered active and

1:30:18vibrant community has more expectations than a dormant one.

1:30:24When you're looking at some of the other cities and towns that fall within that 15 count

1:30:29that Councillor McKee provided, and you may have to go outside of that, I'm really curious

1:30:34to know how you're going to be able to make that factor.

1:30:37What's the factor?

1:30:38How are you going to determine that you're not going to include a Form A form of government

1:30:42in your consideration?

1:30:43I think it's important for us to know that.

1:30:45But I really think it's important that the people here and you yourself know Quincy

1:30:50is a special place.

1:30:51We have a lot of things going on here from economic development to growth to a substantial

1:30:57sense of community here.

1:30:59When you're comparing these cities and towns for compensation for the mayor and maybe potentially

1:31:04for the Councillors, I ask you to consider those things too.

1:31:08I can tell you over the last probably 7 to 10 days I have been in the same place as

1:31:12the mayor on three different occasions and they were 14 hour days.

1:31:16Starting at 7 a.m., ending at 9, 10 o'clock at night.

1:31:20And that's appreciation of our citizens in different organizations, anniversaries that

1:31:24are being celebrated.

1:31:26We need to make sure that we compensate the position so that we don't lower our expectations

1:31:31of citizens.

1:31:32The citizens enjoy that engagement.

1:31:34The citizens appreciate having an active and involved mayor.

1:31:39And I ask you to seriously consider the cities and towns.

1:31:41We're hearing places like Methuen, probably a great place to live.

1:31:46It's not Quincy.

1:31:47I ask you to consider that what is going on in those cities and towns, especially the

1:31:52cities, what's going on in those towns and how comparable are they to Quincy?

1:31:56We want leadership that's able to handle both our current and our future.

1:32:01Thank you.

1:32:05Nina West.

1:32:20Hi.

1:32:21Good evening.

1:32:22Good evening.

1:32:23I'm here to respond to the argument for keeping the city's automated license plate reader

1:32:26or ALPR program in order to keep our community safe.

1:32:30Now, I understand the emotion behind the argument.

1:32:34Crime is real and the urgency to prevent it is real, but we need to separate what feels

1:32:39protective from what actually protects us.

1:32:46Police Chief has cited a few anecdotes to support the ALPR program.

1:32:49They're weak to alarming.

1:32:52In a 2022 road rage incident, ALPRs identified a suspect quickly, but an arrest came days

1:32:58later.

1:32:59Public records show witness statements and victim testimony did the work, not ALPRs.

1:33:07In the Wollaston station sexual assault case, MBTA surveillance video helped solve that

1:33:12crime quickly.

1:33:14ALPRs' role surfaced three days later after the case was solved.

1:33:19Most troubling is the case on Quincy's transparency portal.

1:33:23The police pulled a citizen's ALPR driving history based on an ex-partner's suspicion.

1:33:28The portal called this a success because the person was cleared.

1:33:32But I call it a warning.

1:33:34A system that tracks unsuspicion is a system that can be misused.

1:33:40City Lettership credits ALPRs with solving crimes that its traditional police work would

1:33:44have solved anyway while exposing residents to documented misuse, officers stalking ex-partners

1:33:52and monitoring ordinary citizens without cause.

1:33:56The mayor's calls such concerns overblown and with respect, his response did not match

1:34:01the seriousness of this issue.

1:34:04Residents ask about oversight, data access and accountability were not being alarmist.

1:34:09We deserve answers to real problems.

1:34:12Police departments across the state and the country have grappled with.

1:34:17Crime happens with or without aggressive surveillance and sadly there's no such thing as zero crime.

1:34:24Effective alternatives to constant surveillance already exist in Quincy too.

1:34:30Programs like ward officers, mental health conditions, Narcan access, NCIC and silver

1:34:36alerts.

1:34:37These target people in real danger without surveilling everyone else.

1:34:43Quincy's crime rate is average and Massachusetts is safer than much of the United States.

1:34:48Aggressive surveillance doesn't prevent crime.

1:34:51It just means everyone gets surveilled.

1:34:56With all this in mind, I'm asking you to listen carefully to the speakers and evidence

1:35:00during tomorrow's flock ALPR hearing and consider ending Quincy's program.

1:35:05Thank you.

1:35:06Thank you.

1:35:11Zachary Christopher.

1:35:12Hi, Zachary Christopher, 67 Montclair Ave.

1:35:26Quincy Massachusetts Ward 3 doing a great job as always same with the rest of the council.

1:35:34On that note, you guys do deserve a raise.

1:35:38Last I checked and I'm no expert, the city council is back to the old salary right which

1:35:47was around $30,000 or you guys at the 45 number.

1:35:52It's a mix.

1:35:54It's a mix?

1:35:56Yeah.

1:35:57Wonderful.

1:35:58Um, you should be at like around 60K because anything less is sort of pushing what you

1:36:06can sustain in the city.

1:36:08I make like 57K annually as a mechanic.

1:36:14I definitely don't do as much for society as you guys do.

1:36:18You guys keep this city running.

1:36:20I just keep cars on the road.

1:36:23Why are you guys making less than me for doing all this?

1:36:28But importantly, whatever we decide, according to the city charter section 17A just like

1:36:37a little sentence right at the end of that fat paragraph, it does say that all decisions

1:36:45on mayoral and council raises are to be put to a general election by the people at the

1:36:55next regularly scheduled election.

1:36:59So we're going to have great discussions.

1:37:03I would propose a solution.

1:37:05Like Debona said, Cambridge is doing great work in improving democracy.

1:37:12One of their programs that they just started is, what did they call it?

1:37:17The Cambridge Civic Assembly.

1:37:19I emailed most of the council about it, I believe.

1:37:23A great program where they send out interest forms and you reply and you get added to a

1:37:30lottery to be selected to attend a series of meetings regarding a topic, a random sampling

1:37:38of the population to deliberate on important policy decisions before putting it to a public

1:37:45vote.

1:37:46Very great system and they even had like $1,000 stipends for attendees and childcare

1:37:53and interpretation services.

1:37:56All great things because the people deserve more power in the city.

1:38:01The mayor's been doing his work but I do think the people deserve more.

1:38:09It is by our hands that this city is built.

1:38:12You guys are just guiding us.

1:38:16Thank you.

1:38:17Thank you.

1:38:19Sue Daugherty.

1:38:25Hi.

1:38:28I'm Sue Daugherty, 922C Street.

1:38:30And I want to thank you, Councillor Asch, for mentioning the white cane month.

1:38:35I didn't know about that and that's going to be helpful.

1:38:38And also Councillor Jacobs for checking the streetlights and how's NAC?

1:38:43That's like really something I've been concerned about over the years when I walk at night.

1:38:47Sometimes there's long stretches within those streetlights and I saw you say the other

1:38:50day in one of your emails, I think, that you've been checking that.

1:38:54So thank you.

1:38:55But I did want to, I wanted to, you know, also just thank you guys in general for working

1:39:00on so many issues that need to be addressed in Quincy.

1:39:04We do need to fix past issues and problems.

1:39:06That's part of being a leader.

1:39:09You can't just ignore things and move on without making sure things are tied up.

1:39:14And I know with CLASB, I just want to mention, like, I think that the idea of just making

1:39:19sure the money goes back to the elder services, that'll tie it up and then everyone can move

1:39:23on.

1:39:24And it has to, you have to like finish the work.

1:39:30But I want to talk about the raises.

1:39:31I totally support implementing thoughtful approach for fair raises.

1:39:35And thinking of city employees like our educators, they end up in negotiations, they're fighting

1:39:39for one, two, three percent raises every three years.

1:39:42That was one reason why I was really personally appalled as an educator at the proposed raises

1:39:47for the council and the mayor before.

1:39:49And when I did the math on those, for what the teachers got for the ten years, that

1:39:54the mayor had gone without a raise, it came to around $187,000 if we had actually taken

1:39:59the same percentages forward each year.

1:40:03And I think teachers should get more than two or three percent a year, and mayors should

1:40:07get less than 87 percent.

1:40:08There's got to be a middle ground there.

1:40:11So again, thank you to all the people in the city, the city council who've worked

1:40:14so hard to rescind those crazy high raises, and now the next step is what do we do?

1:40:19And maybe you come up with a system that would be helpful for referring to in negotiations

1:40:23with other city workers because you negotiate with the fire, the police, the teachers.

1:40:27I know that's not your role, but, well, I think you do maybe with the police and fire,

1:40:31but not with the school.

1:40:32The school committee would do with the teachers, but whatever you come up with, you know, have

1:40:39public hearing, discuss, vote on, and as Zachary just mentioned, it would be great

1:40:42to have the voters vote on it if that is in the city charter.

1:40:46And I do want to just make a note that if there's any way to do something retroactively

1:40:49for the mayor and councilors who did not get raises for the period of time, that all

1:40:54this has been under dispute.

1:40:55I think if there's a way for you to consider doing that, I don't know how you would do

1:40:58that in the budget, if you could put that in the budget.

1:41:00As a unionist, I believe that would be fair for everyone because right now people have

1:41:04been going without raises for several years now.

1:41:08I don't know if you got to keep the money.

1:41:10I don't know how that worked over the last few years if it just rescinds going forward.

1:41:15So I'm thinking retroactive pay, and I don't know if that even makes sense, so I'm going

1:41:19to stop right there, but thank you.

1:41:22Thank you.

1:41:25All right.

1:41:26We have a forum portion of this evening.

1:41:28Okay.

1:41:30It was back there, so Jocelyn, I'll let you come up and then.

1:41:35Hello.

1:41:41Jocelyn Sedney.

1:41:42I live at 85 Monroe Road in Quincy, and I'm going to address a topic that is not on the

1:41:47agenda today, but it will be on the agenda in the future, but it requires some work

1:41:52now so that you're all prepared, I hope, to address this when you do.

1:41:58This deals with the residential tax rate.

1:42:01I propose, and I suggest, that this council adopt the policy that's followed by over

1:42:0720 cities, towns, and municipalities in the state and give an exemption, a residential

1:42:14tax exemption for single family properties and perhaps two family properties.

1:42:21These cities and towns find a way to give relief to single family properties, and it's

1:42:27important because some people might not realize that there are big commercial enterprises

1:42:32in this city, such as Fox Rock, that has thousands of apartments, and they are taxed

1:42:38at the same residential tax rate that we, as homeowners, are taxed at.

1:42:43Now, they have to be, as I understand it, as a matter of law, but there is a way to

1:42:48protect individuals, and these cities and towns have found a way to do that, and they

1:42:54have factors that this city council can adopt.

1:42:58For instance, the properties would have to be owner occupied only, be a primary residence.

1:43:04It would exempt not the whole property, but a portion of the property value, and the city

1:43:09council can establish what that is.

1:43:11For instance, if you have a $750,000 house or valued by the city at $750,000, maybe $500

1:43:19would be exempt, and you would pay the residential tax rate on the $250,000.

1:43:25Now some people are going to say we can't possibly afford that, because we need that

1:43:29money from everybody.

1:43:30Well, you can give us the exemption, and you can raise the residential tax rate that

1:43:36these commercial entities are paying.

1:43:38I don't mind paying an increased residential tax rate on $250,000.

1:43:44I don't want to pay it on $750,000.

1:43:47So there's a solution out there, it requires study, it requires some effort by the city

1:43:53council.

1:43:54I actually spoke about this last year when the tax rate was being addressed, and of course

1:43:59nothing happened.

1:44:00I'm asking that you all look at this, because the citizens of Quincy, the individual property

1:44:06owners need some tax relief.

1:44:09Let us have the relief and make the big commercial property owners who have multiple, thousands,

1:44:16or a thousand apartments that Fox Rock has paying the same residential tax rate as us.

1:44:23Thank you.

1:44:24I'm going to let you come up, but I'm terribly sorry, this has to be the last one, because

1:44:31you have to sign in.

1:44:32That's the new rules.

1:44:33Jocelyn, it was in the back of the room, so just let you know.

1:44:35I appreciate this very much.

1:44:37I'm a new resident in the City of Quincy, relatively new.

1:44:39I moved from Providence in 2017.

1:44:42I currently reside at 21 Kemper Street in Wallace Street.

1:44:46Could you guess your name and address, please?

1:44:48Oh, to address 21 Kemper Street.

1:44:50Name.

1:44:51Oh, David White.

1:44:52David, thank you.

1:44:53Yeah, 21 Kemper Street.

1:44:54I appreciate the City of Quincy very much.

1:44:56I really enjoy living here, and I must say this is exciting for me to talk to the City

1:45:00Council, personally, eye to eye.

1:45:03I wanted to express my displeasure, however, with the installation of flock cameras in

1:45:08the City.

1:45:10I do not believe that, one, looking at the crime rates in the City, that we'd need such

1:45:15invasive measures to keep the City safe.

1:45:18I do appreciate what the City policemen do for us, keep us safe.

1:45:23I am concerned about our civil liberties more than that.

1:45:27I think the possibility of misuse is very high for these cameras, and for misuse, being

1:45:35told that we can trust the City or the policeman is one thing I just am very skeptical, especially

1:45:42in this City, where our Mayor seems to have ignored the rights of separation of church

1:45:48and state by spending City money on statues and now having them sitting, God knows where,

1:45:54in some storage.

1:45:55Perhaps that money could be used to give you raises, but, no, it's sitting in the form

1:46:00of statues.

1:46:01For a City that does not understand the basic principles of our civil liberties, I do not

1:46:07trust that City with the information gathered on fly flock cameras.

1:46:13I enjoy the City.

1:46:14I'm sure that I will live here many, many, many years.

1:46:17I hope to maybe be buried in one of your graveyards.

1:46:21But I'm very concerned about my civil liberties being abused by the installation of these

1:46:26cameras.

1:46:27I just enjoy your consideration.

1:46:28Thank you very much.

1:46:29Thank you.

1:46:33With that, we're going to close open forum.

1:46:36Before we go on to the rest of the agenda, I'm going to give Councilor Yuan a moment

1:46:41to speak.

1:46:42Councilor Yuan.

1:46:50Thank you, Madam President.

1:46:53Madam Committee Clerk, I would like to read my full statement into record, and I'm going

1:47:04to submit a copy.

1:47:09First, I want to apologize that I made an inaccurate statement at the last Tuesday's

1:47:18meeting that Thomas Class B was the best man at a mayor's cause wedding.

1:47:23I should have double-checked the information before stating it.

1:47:29This is my mistake.

1:47:30I take this sentence back.

1:47:34But best man or not, it does not change the fact I wanted to state.

1:47:40Thomas Class B's long-term close friendship with Mayor Tomsko, which Class B often touted,

1:47:48made the employees too scared to report his stealing for 10 years.

1:47:56Here is the government memorandum regarding sentencing us to Thomas F. Class B junior.

1:48:03I quote, Class B had no shame flaunting his theft among the Kennedy Center employees

1:48:12because he knew they would be too scared of his relationship with Mayor Cole to report

1:48:18him.

1:48:21Here is the federal court transcript.

1:48:23I quote, "There was additional testimony that a various woman who worked at the Kennedy

1:48:30Center tried for 10 years to get him to stop taking the petty cash or the cash that was

1:48:38coming in.

1:48:39They kept the cash in locked desk drawers and filing cabinets, and they moved it around

1:48:46their offices to try to keep it out of his hand.

1:48:50But he persisted."

1:48:52Pathetic workplace culture that intimidated city employees into silence for 10 years,

1:49:01where this theft was happening right in their face, is abhorrent.

1:49:09Who has apologized to these employees who suffered?

1:49:13Where was the oversight?

1:49:15Was there any board overseeing the elder service department where Class B was the director?

1:49:23Or was the mayor directly responsible for overseeing the department?

1:49:27Susan, we're going to stop now because we're just going to put it on hold.

1:49:32I want to read the failure of oversight was so extreme.

1:49:36Susan, I'm going to stop, but we're going to move on, okay?

1:49:42Okay.

1:49:44I will save it for the remarks.

1:49:46Number two on the agenda, 2026, 133, ordinance establishing a rolling five-year capital

1:49:53improvement plan.

1:49:54Councilwoman?

1:49:59So, in May this year, I had an order requesting the administration to provide a two-year

1:50:33capital improvement plan.

1:50:36And first, we were told they didn't have one.

1:50:40Then finally, a draft was provided.

1:50:44But for the size of our city, for so many projects going on, and for the city's massive

1:50:51nearly $2 billion debt, I believe we very much need a plan.

1:51:00Residents and the city council should have an idea of what the administration is planning

1:51:04to do with taxpayers' money.

1:51:08Without a plan, we just learn about one project at a time and then ask the city council to

1:51:14approve the borrowing for one project at a time.

1:51:19It's like driving 60 miles an hour without a map, without knowing where you are going

1:51:25to end up.

1:51:26Do you have enough gas?

1:51:29Can you afford to buy enough gas to get to the destination you want to reach?

1:51:35We don't want to drive with our eyes covered.

1:51:39Maybe the administration does have a plan.

1:51:42If it does, then please provide it to the city council and the residents.

1:51:47No surprise, please.

1:51:54So this ordinance establishing a rolling five-year capital improvement plan.

1:52:00I just read the second part.

1:52:04Now therefore be it ordained that the city council of the city of Quincy as follows.

1:52:12Section one, rolling five-year capital improvement plan.

1:52:17The mayor shall submit to the city council a rolling five-year capital improvement plan

1:52:22no later than February 1st of each year.

1:52:26The first plan shall be submitted no later than February 1st, 2027.

1:52:32And the shall cover fiscal year 2028 through 2032.

1:52:39The plan shall identify the capital projects, capital improvements the city anticipate

1:52:46and take in during the five-year period regardless of funding source and the shall include for

1:52:52each project the anticipated cost, timing and the funding source including municipal

1:53:01bonds or other borrowing, grants, city funds, revolving funds and other.

1:53:09The plan shall be revised and extended annually to update the status of projects and add

1:53:18an additional fiscal year to the five-year planning horizon.

1:53:24The plan shall be submitted to the city council and made available to the public.

1:53:30Section two, effective date.

1:53:32This ordinance shall take effect upon passage and the publication as required by law.

1:53:41So this plan is so in Massachusetts is around more than 20 municipal government have this

1:53:56kind of five-year capital improvement plan, such as Boston, Newton, Framingham, Saland,

1:54:04Cambridge and for the city I just said Quincy if we want to develop it responsibly we should

1:54:16have a plan.

1:54:18But in other cities some are much more sophisticated than this simple sample so we can city councilors

1:54:30can discuss like if you want to add something or one thing I think about in this ordinance

1:54:41I didn't put any enforcement in it if the city don't submit it then what?

1:54:50So I think the city councilors can discuss that too and I would like to hear my colleagues

1:54:56opinion.

1:54:57>> Are you going to be referring this to committee?

1:55:06>> I'm making motion to refer it to the finance committee.

1:55:09>> The finance or the -- >> The ordinance committee.

1:55:14>> The ordinance committee?

1:55:15>> Yeah.

1:55:16>> Councilman made a motion to refer to ordinance.

1:55:19Do we have a second?

1:55:21Anything on the motion?

1:55:24>> No.

1:55:25So we may be both ordinance and finance?

1:55:27>> It would go into ordinance.

1:55:28>> We're going to refer to ordinance and then we have a second by Councillor Riley.

1:55:36Does anybody have anything on the motion?

1:55:42>> Thank you, Madam President.

1:55:44Just to elaborate a little bit about sophistication with the word, we've had a capital improvement

1:55:51plan installed.

1:55:52In 2016 when I first came on to the council in 2017 we rolled out a capital improvement

1:55:58plan and we did an inventory through all different departments, police, fire, schools,

1:56:04buildings, the whole nine yards.

1:56:06Unfortunately in March of 2020 we got hit with COVID and we prioritized a lot of the

1:56:12projects that were top priorities.

1:56:15Now we would come in with different capital improvement plans and different items like

1:56:20the $100 million roads and sidewalks and different items, but you make it sound like

1:56:28we've never had a capital improvement plan.

1:56:30We have no sophistication here in the city.

1:56:32We have.

1:56:33And the city council has deliberated about it.

1:56:35I've walked in different fire stations and gone through different items that we had to

1:56:40particularly do at different stages of the time.

1:56:43So to not say that the administration or even the prior councils did not deliberate

1:56:48on these type of things is to be a little far fetched.

1:56:52So I'm looking forward to obviously having a new capital improvement plan, obviously,

1:56:57or a revised version, but we have done stuff over the years.

1:57:01Public buildings, especially Commissioner Hines will come in every year and do a spot

1:57:06check on every single school in the city of Quincy and all the public buildings, which

1:57:10is a lot.

1:57:11So I just want to say it's not only the administration's previous city councilors have worked together

1:57:19on prioritizing what we think is important for the city, but to say that the administration

1:57:25or the previous councils have never had it, we have.

1:57:29And I'm sure we'll have more.

1:57:31This is a new council and we're in month 9, 10 now, but I will look forward to that.

1:57:38But to say that the administration hasn't come to the council with it is a little far

1:57:43fetched because we did 16 and 17.

1:57:46And economics, talk about economics, very different back then than it is today.

1:57:51You look at gas prices, they're soaring off the roof.

1:57:55Interest rates just hit like, I think, 7.375 on the home mortgages.

1:58:00So things have altered.

1:58:03You're looking at $4 a gallon for gas.

1:58:06Groceries are off the roof.

1:58:09We've done a pretty good job up to this far considering all the different things that

1:58:13have come in front of us.

1:58:14So I'll be happy to support this, but at the end of the day, I just want to let you

1:58:19know that I don't know if you were here in 2016 or '17 when we first rolled it out from

1:58:25previous councils, but I'm sure we can talk more about this, but just to let you give

1:58:31you a little history lesson for the last 10 years.

1:58:34Thank you.

1:58:37>> Anybody else on the motion?

1:58:38I've got to speak if I can.

1:58:39So I appreciate what Councillor DiBona is saying.

1:58:42I appreciate what Councillor Uyen is saying.

1:58:45We did have, and I was on the council when we had a capital improvement plan.

1:58:49But I think we have some of the frustrations coming from maybe some of the newer councillors

1:58:52is that when asking for these things, they're not receiving it.

1:58:56And although we had something back in 2017, and because of COVID, things got moved around,

1:59:00we're now in 2026.

1:59:01We're in fiscal year '27.

1:59:04We do have to start looking to have more formality when we're doing these types of things to

1:59:09understand what's happening.

1:59:11So I think the initiative of what this five-year capital improvement plan is, is just to get

1:59:14us back on track to be able to see what our priorities are in the city so that we can

1:59:20be transparent to the people who are looking for those things to be taken care of and so

1:59:24we can understand what those bonds are being spent and how these things are doing.

1:59:27I supported it, and I will continue to support it and support all the work that we're doing

1:59:32as well.

1:59:33So with that, I think we're going to take a motion to vote.

1:59:36Do you want to speak?

1:59:37Yeah, we're going to be quick, though.

1:59:39Thank you.

1:59:40Madam President.

1:59:41Through you, Madam President, so I would like to ask Councillor Di Bona, is there any ordinance

1:59:50in place to add enforcement like the administration has to submit a five-year capital improvement

2:00:01plan?

2:00:02Yes, we -- I asked in May, but they said they don't have, so the purpose of this is

2:00:10to set this as a law so the administration will follow it every year rolling like a

2:00:18five-year capital improvement.

2:00:20That's my purpose.

2:00:21So Councillor Yuen, I'm going to stop the debate back and forth as we put this into

2:00:24ordinance, and it's been seconded.

2:00:26All those in favor?

2:00:27All right.

2:00:28Okay.

2:00:30Moving on.

2:00:31It's 2026-134, resolve regarding the City of Quincy's Noise Control Advisory Board.

2:00:37Councillor Asch?

2:00:39Thank you, Madam President.

2:00:42I will read this, and then I'll kind of give a brief overview of what I'm trying to accomplish

2:00:49with this resolve, and then I will move to have it referred to, I believe, oversight

2:00:55would be oversight or public works, but oversight may be the best committee for it.

2:01:01So 2026-134, border regarding the City of Quincy's Noise Control Advisory Board, whereas

2:01:08Chapter 215 entitled Noise of the City of Quincy Code was amended and/or restated in

2:01:132010, whereas at this time the City adopted and/or instituted a Noise Control Advisory

2:01:18Board, the Board, whereas the Board has been signed into law to advise the Mayor, Director

2:01:24of Inspectional Services, City Council, and Planning Board on noise control issues, including

2:01:29administration and enforcement of the chapter, whereas the Board consists of seven members,

2:01:35including one chairperson and one vice chairperson appointed by the Mayor and confirmed by the

2:01:39City Council, whereas the Board must meet at the call of the chairperson as required

2:01:43to perform its duties, but not less than once each quarter, and the majority of the

2:01:48members of the Board constitutes a quorum for transacting business, whereas no later

2:01:53than March 1st of each year, the chairperson of the Board must report to the Director

2:01:56of Inspectional Services, the Mayor, the City Council, and the Planning Board on activities

2:02:00and actions the Noise Control Advisory Board took during the previous calendar year, whereas

2:02:05over the last 10-plus years the City of Quincy has experienced one of the most transformative

2:02:10construction booms in its history, resulting in a significant increase in residents and

2:02:15the overall population, whereas in recent years there has been a noticeable uptick

2:02:20in excessive speeding, drag racing, and loud vehicle noises, whereas excessive speeding,

2:02:25drag racing, and loud vehicle noises led to a Summer 26th/Summer 2026 pilot program

2:02:32that closed Wampanoag Road and Chikatawbit Roads within the Blue Hills Reservation in

2:02:35Quincy on the weekends, whereas nearby municipalities have recently amended their respective laws

2:02:40and/or legislative authority to enhance precautions related to and/or to prohibit high noise

2:02:45outputs near residences, whereas nearby municipalities have recently amended their respective laws

2:02:52and legislative authority to include restrictions on vehicles with modified exhaust systems

2:02:57and/or muffler cutouts or bypasses, and whereas nearby municipalities have recently approved

2:03:02appropriations for noise cameras and/or increased police presence and problem areas.

2:03:09Now therefore be it resolved that the Administration, including but not limited to the Noise Control

2:03:14Advisory Board, the Quincy Police Department, and the Inspectional Services Department review

2:03:18and present recent considerations, issues, complaints, and suggested remedies.

2:03:22Therefore, now therefore be it resolved that the Administration, including but not limited

2:03:28to the Noise Control Advisory Board, the Quincy Police Department, and the Inspectional

2:03:31Services Department review and consider benefits of adopting or changing current measures to

2:03:36address the adverse effects these issues have on our residents' quality of life.

2:03:41Therefore be it further resolved that this review should include financial and environmental

2:03:45concerns for all residents, any or all contractors, and also the City's first responders.

2:03:50So this is very constituent-based.

2:03:56I hear, I'm sure you all hear about noise and speeding constantly.

2:04:02If it's, I have Southern artery, Quincy Ave., Washington Street, but I don't think it's

2:04:06even specific to emergency arteries.

2:04:08I think some of you are hearing it.

2:04:11Speeding on, you know, side roads is unacceptable, but we all have to, you know, deal with some

2:04:16level of that in the city of our population.

2:04:18I have never heard the noise that comes out of these vehicles like I have the last couple

2:04:23of years.

2:04:24Maybe I just, I'm in tune now more than, because obviously I'm a representative, but

2:04:30the noise is really out of control.

2:04:31So I did, you know, do a little bit of research and try to figure out the best way to move

2:04:37this forward and look at some remedies or implementations or what other cities and towns

2:04:43are doing, a number of constituents I've discussed this with at varying levels over

2:04:48the last few years.

2:04:50We do have a noise control advisory board.

2:04:53If that board has met recently, then I'd love to, you know, see what's come of those

2:04:58meetings if that board hasn't met recently, then maybe we can reconvene with some players

2:05:04just because I know something has to be done.

2:05:06And with all the respect to the state legislation, I know that people have said the pilot program

2:05:13for Blue Hills was a success.

2:05:16I just don't want to see that problem pushed out now into our neighborhoods and our areas

2:05:22and our wards.

2:05:23So I can do all the spot checks at different places and talk to the chief and they're

2:05:27great about patrol.

2:05:30But if we can look at citywide, I really think it would benefit some of or most of our residents.

2:05:38So I would like to make a motion to move this into oversight.

2:05:41>> Excellent.

2:05:43So we have a motion to move this into oversight.

2:05:44Do we have a second?

2:05:45Seconded by Councillor Riley.

2:05:46On the motion?

2:05:49Councillor Ryan.

2:05:50>> I would just like to add another category in that excessive noise and that's excessive

2:05:59dog barking because actually I've had calls from family with regards to dogs barking

2:06:07in the middle of the night after the noise ordinance ends and they can't recognize where

2:06:16it's coming from, which home, and there are at least three or four dogs in the neighborhood.

2:06:22And it does not help with their rest and it does not help with their quality of life.

2:06:28So that's it.

2:06:30Thank you.

2:06:31>> Thank you.

2:06:33All those in favour?

2:06:34>> Aye.

2:06:35>> Aye.

2:06:36>> All right.

2:06:40Moving on.

2:06:41I'm number four.

2:06:42>> This is number four, 2026, 135 resolve ordering, requesting a review of the city's

2:06:48website usage and navigation requirements for popular online municipal services.

2:06:54>> Councillor.

2:06:55>> Thank you, Madam President.

2:06:56Through you.

2:06:57So I'm going to waive my own reading because this is very dry and just explain it at a

2:07:02high level.

2:07:03In our previous and first municipal technology meeting we did a review, understand what were

2:07:11the top reasons why constituents come into our office or phone in and how many of those

2:07:19popular needs are available on the website.

2:07:23And through that meeting we determined that most of them were, the city has done a great

2:07:28job at surfacing and making available online transactions for things that are very popular

2:07:35to do in person.

2:07:36So people who prefer to do business online can.

2:07:39And actually in that discussion Councillor Riley pointed out something where I kind

2:07:43of thought we were going to go next which is navigability.

2:07:47So I think this resolution is asking the, probably the IT department to explore options

2:07:54for being able to give actually quantitative reports on how frequently people use our online

2:08:01services and which services they use and how long it would take you to navigate to

2:08:06those surfaces to ensure that the website is structured in such a way that things are

2:08:11easy to find and things that are popular are easily surfaced.

2:08:15I did make a mistake earlier last week when I submitted this resolution, there was an

2:08:20email that came back to me asking if I wanted to share it for additional sponsorship and

2:08:24I didn't reply to that which is why there's no one else I imagine tagging onto this one.

2:08:29So my apologies, I was at a required all in person employee meeting.

2:08:34So in short this is just asked the administration to explore reporting options so we can see

2:08:39actual quantifiable data that comes from the website itself and to look at how navigable

2:08:46the website is, to look for, to consider improvements.

2:08:49So that's an explanation of the resolution.

2:08:52So I'm looking to refer this to municipal tech and happy to hear anyone on the motion.

2:08:58Okay so it's being referred to me as municipal tech, is there a second?

2:09:02Councillor Ryan second.

2:09:03Did you want to talk about it?

2:09:04Okay.

2:09:05Does anybody want to talk on the motion?

2:09:07Councillor Riley.

2:09:10Thank you Madam President.

2:09:11Yes, I really appreciate you bringing this forward Councillor Hubley, I believe when

2:09:16we had the Muni Tech meeting this was almost exactly what I had brought forward as a comment

2:09:22that I think we have a lot of good functionality, I think there's a lot of things that can

2:09:26be done through the city website but they're not easily navigable.

2:09:30I think we need to put things on the homepage, how to pay a bill, how to report a street

2:09:34light out which will save all of us a few extra calls and probably make the Treasurer

2:09:40Collector's job a little bit easier if people can easily find how to pay those bills online.

2:09:45So I fully support this, I hope we can find some suggestions that we can give to our

2:09:50technology people to make the website a little bit more navigatable.

2:09:55Thank you for bringing this forward.

2:09:59All right.

2:10:01All those in favour?

2:10:02All right.

2:10:03Excellent.

2:10:05Okay.

2:10:06Moving on to number five.

2:10:072026, 136, Resolve, Quincy Centre Station in Long-Term Redevelopment.

2:10:11Okay.

2:10:12I'm going to wave the reading because I have a very bad tickle on my throat.

2:10:17So this Resolve is intended to give the Council and the public an update and a clear record

2:10:22on what is happening at the Quincy Centre since the parking garage closed in 2012.

2:10:28What progress has been made, what has been moved forward and what is the long-term plan.

2:10:33There has been a number of proposals, the planning efforts over the years while the

2:10:36City has also its substantial investments throughout the downtown Quincy, the MBTA's

2:10:40current capital investment plan now includes approximately $96 million associated with

2:10:45Project P1165 at Quincy Centre.

2:10:49So I think it's important that we understand exactly what the work includes and how it

2:10:52fits into the larger development of the station area.

2:10:55The Resolve is asking for a chronological review beginning in 2012 including the major

2:10:59plans, studies, approvals, funding commitments and what's been completed, what has advanced

2:11:03and what the scope is of the current MBTA investment and the specific next steps, responsible

2:11:09priorities, milestones and anticipated timeline.

2:11:12The purpose is really very simple.

2:11:13After 14 years, I would like the Council and the public to have a clear understanding

2:11:16of where we have been, where we are today and what the plan is going forward.

2:11:20I would also like to ask maybe for a member, be taken up an oversight, maybe have a member

2:11:26representatives of the MBTA Mass DOT, MBTA Advisory Board and the Mayor's Administration

2:11:31to invite the proper people to participate.

2:11:36This is not about relitigating the past, it's really about establishing the record for

2:11:39making sure we understand what happens next.

2:11:42So at this point, I'd like to ask to refer this to the Oversight Committee.

2:11:46So motion to move and seconded by David Jacobs.

2:11:53On the motion?

2:11:56All those in favour?

2:12:04Number 6, 2026.137, a Resolve Seeking Restitution on the Tom Plasby case.

2:12:11Before we go on, were you supposed to do a roll call on the MBTA?

2:12:15Did you want it to pass or did you want to refer it?

2:12:24Okay.

2:12:26Number 6, Resolve Seeking Restitution of Tom Plasby, this is Councilor Jacobs.

2:12:35Hi, yes, so thank you for letting me speak about this.

2:12:41We spoke about this at the Oversight Committee hearing last week.

2:12:48Basically what this resolution is asking for is basically we are aware that there's

2:12:54$136,000 in restitution coming to the way of the city by way of, I don't know if it's

2:13:01Perrick or the Quincy Retirement Board, but by way of retirement, so the $136,000 is

2:13:09according to what was said by the, I believe the auditor, the last meeting has still not

2:13:15arrived here.

2:13:17But from emails that I have gotten and things that people have said here up in front of

2:13:27the council, it seems like there's a pretty good understanding that people want this money

2:13:34to go directly back to the seniors and not into the general fund.

2:13:39So what I'm really asking for is for you to support this as I do think it is what the

2:13:47people of Quincy want and most notably I would like it when the City Council be notified

2:13:55when restitution payments are received so that we don't have to ask to find out it

2:14:01was received that we are told when it comes in and that we be shown where those funds

2:14:08have been added to the Council on Aging Department.

2:14:12So I'm going to ask for a vote to pass this and send it on to the mayor at this time.

2:14:20Thank you.

2:14:21Okay.

2:14:22So we have a motion to approve this and move it on to the mayor.

2:14:25Second?

2:14:27Are you seconding?

2:14:28On the motion?

2:14:29On the motion.

2:14:30Okay.

2:14:31Do we have a second before we go on to the motion?

2:14:34Any second?

2:14:36Yeah, thank you, Madam President.

2:14:40So as written, I'd like to offer a friendly amendment.

2:14:45As written, the money of restitution would be directed to the Council on Aging Department

2:14:50budget, which as we all know is something that needs to be used within a fiscal year.

2:14:58I'd like to offer a friendly amendment to have that read instead of Council of Aging

2:15:02Department budget, the Council on Aging gift account, which is it was established years

2:15:08ago under Commonwealth Chapter 44, Section 53A, it's a revolving account where fees and

2:15:14donations go that can be utilized over time, which allows the department head to use the

2:15:21money at a pace at which makes sense for the organization.

2:15:23So friendly amendment on the table.

2:15:27So Council Jacobs.

2:15:29Yep, thank you, and I was actually told that this had been written before that, so and

2:15:36I've forgotten that I wanted to add that.

2:15:39So yeah, the gift account is where we want it to go.

2:15:42So we have a motion on the table to accept with the friendly amendment to put it into

2:15:46the gift account?

2:15:47Yep, so.

2:15:48Let me add a second by Councilor Aye.

2:15:51Can we have a roll call vote on this one?

2:15:53Councilor Ash.

2:15:55Oh, sorry.

2:15:56Councilor Nguyen has a question.

2:15:56I'll have Councilor Nguyen.

2:16:01Thank you, Madam President.

2:16:03I have a comment on this.

2:16:06So I think this is a very good first step to trying to make up for the damage come

2:16:21class we did to the senior department, senior service department, the senior people.

2:16:32And I want to say people working that development, working in that department, and when they

2:16:45every day go to work and watch this stuff happening right in their face, and they still

2:16:53dare not to speak up, try to imagine how they feel.

2:17:01That's damage to their feeling, damage to their dignity.

2:17:06Who has come out to apologize to these employees who suffered all these years?

2:17:17And this kind of things happen right in the hometown of Quincy Adams, and the John Quincy

2:17:32Adams, who had fought so hard to protect individual citizens from abuse and the suppression

2:17:47of government.

2:17:49In this case, this intimidating working environment can last for 10 years.

2:18:01Let's really bring a huge shame to the hometown of Quincy Adams and John Quincy Adams.

2:18:12And I want to say, where was the oversight?

2:18:18Was there any board overseeing the old service department where Class B was the director?

2:18:25Or was the mayor directly responsible for overseeing the department?

2:18:31The failure of oversight was so extreme that this theft could happen openly in front of

2:18:40employees for 10 years.

2:18:44And this intimidating working environment could last for 10 years.

2:18:48This is a problem of leadership.

2:18:51This is a problem of oversight.

2:18:53Thank you, Susan.

2:18:54We have an order on the table.

2:18:56We have a friendly amendment.

2:18:57And we're going to take a roll call vote.

2:18:59Okay.

2:19:01Thank you.

2:19:02Roll call vote.

2:19:03Council DiBona?

2:19:04Yes.

2:19:05Council Jacobs?

2:19:06Yes.

2:19:08Council McKean?

2:19:09Council Ryan?

2:19:10Yes.

2:19:11Council Ryan?

2:19:12Yes.

2:19:13Council U.N.?

2:19:14Yes.

2:19:15President Mahoney?

2:19:16Yes.

2:19:17All right.

2:19:18Moving on to?

2:19:19Seven.

2:19:202026.

2:19:21130.

2:19:22A gift for $1,800 from various donors to DA.

2:19:24Motion to approve.

2:19:25And you can send a letter.

2:19:26Thank you.

2:19:27Motion by Council DiBona to approve.

2:19:28To send a letter.

2:19:29Seconded by Council O'Reilly.

2:19:30All those in favor?

2:19:32Roll call vote.

2:19:33Sorry.

2:19:33Councilor Ash?

2:19:35Council DiBona?

2:19:36Yes.

2:19:37Council Jacobs?

2:19:38Yes.

2:19:39Council McKean?

2:19:40Council O'Reilly?

2:19:41Yes.

2:19:42Council Ryan?

2:19:44Yes.

2:19:45Council U.N.?

2:19:46Yes.

2:19:47President Mahoney?

2:19:48Yes.

2:19:49Nine members.

2:19:50Okay.

2:19:51Moving on to approval of previous minutes.

2:19:52September 22, 2026.

2:19:53City Council Meeting and September 29.

2:19:54The joint finance and oversight meetings.

2:19:55Motion to approve.

2:19:56Motion to approve.

2:19:57Motion by Council DiBona.

2:19:58Seconded by Council Jacobs.

2:19:59All those in favor?

2:20:00All right.

2:20:01Any opposed?

2:20:02You guys have it?

2:20:03All right.

2:20:04We have to stop the Council Meeting and return to Ordinance because we didn't do that at

2:20:08the beginning of the last meeting.

2:20:09So we're going to go back to Ordinance and then we'll go back and finish.

2:20:33Returning to the Ordinance Committee.

2:20:35Okay.

2:20:36So we won't stage -- we won't -- we'll wrap it up pretty quickly, I think.

2:20:44We had left off where Councilor U.N. had discussed -- so I had discussed possibly getting the

2:20:52data and then doing our own analysis, presenting that analysis, and then having a public hearing

2:20:59-- should we move the public hearing after the data is finished and publicized?

2:21:08What do people think?

2:21:15So it would be -- so we give the data on this Google Form to -- we fill it in, give

2:21:24it to the Google Form, and then the Council Clerk sends it out.

2:21:30And then Council U.N. is suggesting that we then have a public hearing.

2:21:35We then talk about whatever analysis we do on the data.

2:21:41The alternative is to get the data, do our own analysis, discuss the analysis, and then

2:21:48have a public hearing.

2:21:49So it's sort of whether or not people in the public will receive just the data or whether

2:21:56they will see what we sort of -- if we run any numbers on it or something like that

2:22:02or say here's the average or whatever before they have a chance to comment.

2:22:07So should they comment at the data stage or after the analysis stage?

2:22:11>> Thank you, Madam Chair.

2:22:17I think that it's the work of the committee to do that sort of number crunching and come

2:22:22up with recommendations, and then we can certainly take the public's comment.

2:22:27But I think that the work of the committee should be to crunch all the numbers and make

2:22:30a recommendation as to what salaries and increases would be going forward, but that's

2:22:35just my perspective.

2:22:36>> I'm just going to give Councillor Asch a second.

2:22:50>> If this Google form is completed, if we were just to use it as an exhibit, if you

2:22:55will, to our public hearing and then schedule a public hearing in an ordinance committee,

2:23:00I mean, I think we would have to have a public hearing anyway if we're having this discussion

2:23:05in ordinance.

2:23:07You could probably do it the same night, but contemporaneously, I guess.

2:23:14So if the information is out there, we haven't discussed it yet, but the information is

2:23:18attached to the agenda or to the body of whatever document we're working off of.

2:23:25I think that that probably accomplishes both goals.

2:23:28>> Yes.

2:23:29So I think it's just whether we -- so we might have a couple of more meetings on this.

2:23:33So one is to just take the data when it comes in and sort of respond to it, address any

2:23:40questions.

2:23:41It would be a fairly short meeting, probably, and then I guess you're saying that we could

2:23:48do it at -- then do the hearing or do the hearing and then have the data, discuss the

2:23:53data.

2:23:54But the alternative is to do the hearing after the second meeting where we discuss whatever

2:24:01analysis we do.

2:24:02Do you see what I mean?

2:24:04Do you have a reference on that or -- >> I think they can be done on the same night.

2:24:12If the data is put together and we're having a public comment period to discuss it and

2:24:18then have comment, we may be back to the drawing board again.

2:24:25So if we were to have the data out there, you know, in regular course of business and

2:24:32just have the public hearing and then the deliberations, and if that's continued to

2:24:37a second public hearing and more deliberations, then I guess so be it.

2:24:40That would be my recommendation.

2:24:50So we have to have a public hearing for the ordinance, whatever we come up with.

2:24:58So it sounds like we'll probably have to have two public hearings.

2:25:03I was not realizing that.

2:25:06So actually, yeah, so we might have maybe two short public hearings.

2:25:12Sorry.

2:25:16This is all uncharted territory for me.

2:25:19So let me just hear from some folks that we haven't heard from.

2:25:24We will try this side of the room and then I'll go back to you.

2:25:31>> Thank you.

2:25:32I agree that we should probably, you know, have the data at the public hearing because

2:25:39if people are going to come in and speak, if we share the data, they'll at least have

2:25:44something to have synthesized and, you know, and they can speak to that.

2:25:48We can speak to that.

2:25:49They can speak to that.

2:25:50>> I think it's always a question of whether we would always have the data, but it's like

2:25:56I was saying, should we first have a meeting where we analyze the data?

2:26:01So there's two steps.

2:26:03There's like where we actually get the data and sort of look at it potentially and then

2:26:10but Councillor Asch is saying we could do it on the same night but later where we put

2:26:15forward our analysis of said data.

2:26:18So anyway, it's a slight -- it's a little bit confusing to think about now, but it's

2:26:24sort of whether or not we've crunched the numbers or whether we just put out the raw

2:26:27numbers.

2:26:30But now we actually have to have -- it sounds like two public hearings if we do it.

2:26:37I guess -- or one, but with the -- after we've come up with the ordinance, do people

2:26:45feel that two public hearings is the way to go?

2:26:53Or should we just do it, Councillor -- oh, I'm sorry, I said I would go to Councillor

2:27:00Ryan.

2:27:06>> So I think -- thank you, Madam Chair.

2:27:08I think the two public meetings would be the best solution just to make sure that we cover

2:27:15everything.

2:27:16But I have a question with regards to discussing the source of the data that we're going to

2:27:22compile.

2:27:24We are going to review what sources we're going to use and we're all going to agree

2:27:30on one specific source or maybe two specific sources to compile the data.

2:27:38So we're using the same source.

2:27:42Wouldn't it be confusing if we did use all different sources?

2:27:45>> Well, we'll all be looking at different cities.

2:27:51So we'll be using different sources and that we'll be using city budgets from different

2:27:56cities.

2:27:58I think in the Google form we'll just say -- we'll have a place so we can just put

2:28:03the source for every piece of information we get.

2:28:07I used to work years and years ago as a fact checker and you had to like highlight every

2:28:12single fact.

2:28:13And then as you went through, you just crossed through the word that you checked.

2:28:18So we'll have a little area where we can just put the source.

2:28:22And I think we've discussed that we should be careful with the sources and stick to

2:28:28municipal documents that are like primary sources.

2:28:31>> Okay.

2:28:32>> Yeah.

2:28:33>> Okay.

2:28:35Thank you.

2:28:36>> Yes.

2:28:37>> So I'm just asking for a point of clarification.

2:28:43So we have tonight's meeting which you're setting the framework for.

2:28:46We're going to gather the information and put it into the Google doc.

2:28:48Then we're going to -- what's the next step after that?

2:28:51Just walk me through it again.

2:28:52Sorry.

2:28:53>> Yeah.

2:28:54So once we get the data then the clerk will email it out and post it to the public website.

2:29:03At that point we could have a very brief meeting where we just discuss the data, the

2:29:09raw numbers, without doing any analysis.

2:29:12>> I think that's it.

2:29:14So I think it has to be multiple meetings.

2:29:15I think what you want to do is have that discussion.

2:29:17And I don't mean to jump in here and just say because I'm having definitely -- my head

2:29:21is full fluid.

2:29:23But I think what you want to do is have that discussion because it's going to be a raw

2:29:25data sheet.

2:29:26You can share with the public.

2:29:27Have us discuss it.

2:29:29And then come to some finalizations of what we're focusing on so that we're giving the

2:29:32public where we're at.

2:29:33And then once we have that discussion at the next meeting, let the people kind of digest

2:29:38what we've been talking about and have the public forum at that point so they can come

2:29:41back and give us the feedback.

2:29:43And should be after the public forum be able to go back and address some of those things

2:29:47that we can tighten it up and be very fair about what we're doing.

2:29:49So we don't have to have two meetings.

2:29:50We should just have one public forum, tighten it up, and then we should be able to make

2:29:53a decision potentially.

2:29:55>> Well, the council clerk is saying we actually need to have a public hearing for whatever

2:29:59ordinance we come up with.

2:30:01So in that sense we would need --

2:30:02>> Separate.

2:30:04But yeah, but I guess I'm just trying to say as we move forward we can have the public

2:30:06hearing about what we're working towards for a number.

2:30:09Because I think at the end of the day, that's what the public is going to want to really

2:30:14know.

2:30:15So we definitely have to have a public hearing because of the ordinance, but I think we

2:30:17want to be able to have the public hearing about the salary raises too.

2:30:20>> Okay.

2:30:21So you're saying after we do the analysis rather than just after the raw data?

2:30:24>> Mm-hmm.

2:30:26>> Okay.

2:30:27Councillor Nguyen.

2:30:29>> Thank you, Madam Chair.

2:30:37I feel like I have two hearings like Councillor Asch recommended is good because people have

2:30:45more chance to think.

2:30:49So first they get the information and they do their own research and analyze and they

2:30:55probably can send their report to City Council and we probably also can learn something

2:31:02from residents.

2:31:04And then when you have a second hearing, and so you already have those information, then

2:31:11you discuss all those reports and also Councillors, so two steps I think is good.

2:31:21>> Well, how about this?

2:31:23So it sounds like Councillor, did anyone else have something to say before I jump in?

2:31:31Sorry.

2:31:32Councillor DiBona.

2:31:33>> Thank you, Madam Chair.

2:31:36You can compile all the data you want.

2:31:40Somebody came up and spoke tonight and she said Quincy's unique.

2:31:43It really is.

2:31:44It's a unique city above all these other communities that we're going to research.

2:31:50To be honest with you, I think it's an unbelievable city and we have to make a benchmark, okay?

2:31:56That goes for Mayor and City Council.

2:31:58You want to have these low salaries, I mean, it's going to devalue the positions.

2:32:03That's just my opinion and you can do all this data you want, but you have to look

2:32:09at other factors that economic growth, where the city's come from over the last 10 years.

2:32:16There's all these other factors that you're not going to get on this, on the data that

2:32:20we all research, to be very honest with you.

2:32:22So you can do it all you want.

2:32:24You can put it on a spreadsheet all you want.

2:32:25At the end of the day, Quincy's unique.

2:32:28It's a unique city.

2:32:30The Hancock Adams common out front.

2:32:33What other place has something like that, the Rockefeller Plaza in New York?

2:32:38I mean, who has the tree lighting that we have?

2:32:41Who has all these things that we have in this city, that's above all these other cities

2:32:45and towns in the whole Commonwealth of Massachusetts, 351 community.

2:32:49So I think when we compile all this and at the end of the day you're going to be like,

2:32:54well, this and that, it's just where we've come from over the last 10 years is unprecedented.

2:33:00So I'll just put that out there and we'll compile all this other stuff and we'll figure

2:33:05it out.

2:33:07But anyways.

2:33:09Councillor Jacobs.

2:33:10I agree with Councillor Gabbana.

2:33:14Quincy is a very unique city with $2 billion in debt.

2:33:19These things didn't happen by magic.

2:33:21They were paid for by the people that are sitting out here, the taxpayers, and we're

2:33:25somehow now going to try to say we should take credit for spending their money, money

2:33:31that they spent and that they're paying interest on, and somehow we should take credit for

2:33:36that and give ourselves bigger, fatter paychecks.

2:33:40That logic doesn't make any sense and you're trying to square a circle.

2:33:45That doesn't make any sense.

2:33:49Yes, Councillor Asch.

2:33:54I just want to say, Noel, we're all putting things on the spreadsheet because it's a

2:33:59group project.

2:34:00So you said you can put stuff on the spreadsheet all day long.

2:34:03I'm going to put my stuff on the spreadsheet and then everyone's going to put it on the

2:34:06spreadsheet because this is a group project.

2:34:09That's all.

2:34:10Just want to make that clear.

2:34:12I'm included.

2:34:13No, I don't think, I think we're, if we, if we go down a rabbit hole of the substance

2:34:16right now, it's not, it's not beneficial.

2:34:18I think we have a good framework to move forward with the next steps so we should respectfully

2:34:25end it there.

2:34:26Councillor Hugh Neill.

2:34:32Thank you, Madam Chair.

2:34:34I guess in the, with our group project and the interest of using our time wisely, I don't

2:34:40think we're trying to crunch these numbers so much to come up with like a cost per citizen

2:34:45or cost per household or whatever.

2:34:47I think we'll, and correct me if I'm wrong, but I think we are trying to come up with

2:34:54some watermarks that give us an indication of different ranges, and then when we look

2:34:59at those ranges, we have to, I mean, I really appreciate Councillor McKee's initial list

2:35:05of factors, a way of evaluating and comparing towns, but there's also, I mean, as we started

2:35:11meeting like five other things came off in my mind, there's things like sophistication

2:35:17of plant.

2:35:18I mean, we have an infrastructure here that is far more sophisticated than many other

2:35:22municipalities and that requires different divisions to be created within the city.

2:35:29We are, public works department probably doesn't look exactly like other public works departments.

2:35:34So I think, I think what we're trying to do is get a few frames of reference and then

2:35:39apply I think the uniqueness of our city and what we think the role contributes both

2:35:48on the council side and on the mayoral side.

2:35:51That's kind of how I envision it.

2:35:52So looking to establish a few watermarks and then from there, we apply the filter of the

2:35:57uniqueness of our situation because we're going to be looking at a lot of municipalities

2:36:01that some have more densely populated than Quincy, some are much more rural.

2:36:06So there's a lot of different factors and when I tried to do this on my own, just looking

2:36:11at different towns and cities and so forth and the forms of government, it really opened

2:36:18my eyes as to how unique so many municipalities and then you start to look outside Massachusetts

2:36:22and it's almost senseless to compare outside Massachusetts because we, what I'm learning

2:36:26is we have a different level of government from a lot of other states.

2:36:30So I think it makes sense for us to look at Massachusetts, establish some watermarks

2:36:34and then apply the uniqueness and the qualities that we think the positions hold.

2:36:40Now there are, to use an analogy in the private sector, which I know we're not doing comparative

2:36:47to the private sector but to look at an analogy in the private sector, you know, you'd

2:36:52like to say that every CEO has, you know, perhaps like a business degree but I've worked

2:36:58in organizations where our CEO had a degree in history and theater but they were still

2:37:05very effective and what they do is surround themselves with different people who have

2:37:10different competencies and it's a mosaic of the leadership that is, that's important

2:37:15in the private sector and I think cities are similar.

2:37:19I think cities have sort of a similar situation where each executive and also the legislative

2:37:26branch, we also bring, all of us bring a different quality to the council.

2:37:31I have a technology background, I have executive leadership background but others have education

2:37:36background.

2:37:37There's so many, we are such an eclectic group of people with different proficiencies

2:37:42which I think adds a lot of value.

2:37:44Likewise, I think organizations are structured the same way on the executive side.

2:37:49So I'd like to say that we're looking for watermarks, we're looking for benchmarks,

2:37:52then we're going to apply what we think is appropriate for the city and not just do

2:37:56a straight calculation.

2:37:57That's sort of what I think and if people disagree, I'd love to hear it.

2:38:01That's all, thank you.

2:38:05Anyone else?

2:38:06Yeah, I mean, I think we're never going to find, you know, there's going to be a lot

2:38:13of different arguments you could make but this is going to sort of provide the framework

2:38:18or yeah, the watermarks, the parameters to base a decision and while I can understand

2:38:28the notion that, you know, we all love Quincy and it does, it's such a vibrant community

2:38:32but when we're trying to do something data-driven, we're going to need something like, something

2:38:39to include in that, you know, it's ineffable but otherwise we can't really, you know,

2:38:46so this part of it I think is data-driven and has to be data-driven but yes, if anyone

2:38:56has any further criteria that we haven't yet added, we should probably add it now.

2:39:07Okay.

2:39:09So I think once we get that data, oh, we didn't ever decide.

2:39:20Could we take a raise of hands votes just to see if we're okay?

2:39:29Oh, I was about to say, so Council UN, I think if we present the data at a meeting, people

2:39:38can get up and speak at the open forum at that point if they want to about that.

2:39:46Well, at the full Council meeting following and then my recommendation is to do that and

2:39:56then to have the public hearing, the first public hearing after the analysis, after we

2:40:02run whatever analysis and discuss that, let them hear that, have the comment and then

2:40:09come back and then we will discuss it again, come up with something and then we'll have

2:40:14to do another public hearing for the ordinance anyway once we come up with a suggestion.

2:40:18So I feel like that gives people a lot of opportunities and they can also reach out

2:40:22to us by email and phone individually.

2:40:27So yes, Councillor Riley.

2:40:32Madam Chair, I do feel a little bit worried that we could run into some analysis paralysis.

2:40:40It sounds like an awful lot of meetings for us to -- which are hard to schedule.

2:40:44It's hard to schedule committee meetings.

2:40:46We have to check everyone's availability, our clerk's availability, our auditor's availability

2:40:51and I just think that we should do our very best to try to make the process as efficient

2:40:55as possible.

2:40:56I think once we get the data and we evaluate it, we may see kind of clearly where these

2:41:02numbers are shaking out and not that I don't want to include public comment.

2:41:07Obviously we have to when we propose an ordinance but I still believe it's the work of the

2:41:11committee to do some of that upfront work and make the recommendation to the full body

2:41:19and to the public on where we think these salaries and raises should go.

2:41:24So I'm just a little bit concerned because I'm hearing an awful lot of meetings before

2:41:28we ever get to an ordinance recommendation.

2:41:31And I just hope that we can try to be as efficient as possible knowing that there are

2:41:35other -- just 30 meetings, 35 maybe, that's it.

2:41:42We have other committee work and we have other committees that need to meet and all

2:41:45of these people need to be available for that.

2:41:47So I'm glad you're finding my comments humorous.

2:41:51Again, I just hope that we can try to be as efficient as possible.

2:41:55I think once we see the data, a pattern may emerge fairly obviously that may not require

2:42:02a whole lot of further analysis.

2:42:04But if it doesn't, then we can certainly expand upon that.

2:42:08But that's my preference is to try to be a little efficient.

2:42:12We will try to be efficient.

2:42:16I do think it's important in this case to -- for me, process is so important.

2:42:24And I think that was the reason that I had a big problem with the way the raises were

2:42:27done previously.

2:42:28It just felt like it was not a good process.

2:42:33And that kind of erodes trust in the system, I think.

2:42:37So I want to -- I'm going to argue that we have -- we should take care with such an

2:42:44issue that was such a big one for the community and, you know, there were two major petition

2:42:51efforts to try to undo it or change it.

2:42:55So I think we should take the time in this case to have meetings.

2:43:00And I do take your point, though, we will try to be as efficient as possible.

2:43:08Okay.

2:43:09So are we in agreement that we can have a public hearing after the -- kind of after

2:43:17we do our analysis and then another one when we promote the ordinance.

2:43:24Any objections?

2:43:25No?

2:43:27Okay.

2:43:29All right.

2:43:30When we do the analysis, I just want to go through things that we might like to see,

2:43:38you know, the range.

2:43:39So the minimum, the maximum, the median, the average, we could do kind of 25th percentile.

2:43:48So the value below which a quarter of the list falls and 75th, the value below which

2:43:56three quarters of the list falls and where Quincy falls within that to try to make some

2:44:05sense of the data.

2:44:06But again, this will be something of an art, not completely a science.

2:44:14So okay.

2:44:16I guess -- oh, another thing that we might want to discuss.

2:44:23I have some of this information already, but do you think it would be helpful to see a

2:44:31little bit of history about past compensation for these roles and maybe a few benchmarks

2:44:40of inflation or what the unions have received as just a -- would that be helpful for me

2:44:48to put together?

2:44:49Yeah.

2:44:50Like back pay?

2:44:53Not back pay.

2:44:54I mean, we could discuss that, but I --

2:44:55Did you recognize -- sorry.

2:45:05So you're talking about back pay.

2:45:07Yeah.

2:45:08Folks that didn't get any pay over the last few years is, you know, it's almost like compound

2:45:12interest, compound salary where, you know, they didn't receive anything.

2:45:16I personally don't think that that's within our purview because that was -- nothing was

2:45:24put forward for salary.

2:45:29So I think we should just move forward.

2:45:34Just move forward.

2:45:38Okay.

2:45:39Okay.

2:45:46Councillor?

2:45:47No.

2:45:48I appreciate it.

2:45:50But it didn't go.

2:45:51Okay.

2:45:52Thank you, Madam Chair, through you.

2:45:53One thing about our process that occurred to me is -- and I thought of this as a result

2:45:57of, you know, some folks who have commented on this topic in the past.

2:46:02I think it's worth at the front end of our process very soon because I guess that's where

2:46:07we are -- to help the folks at home and to kind of codify within our group what our process

2:46:17is to establish pay.

2:46:19And what I mean by that is there is some conflict between what's currently written

2:46:25in our city charter and what supersedes that in Mass General Law.

2:46:32So you'll hear a lot of people talking about taking this to a vote and that's how we should

2:46:37handle it and that's what the charter said.

2:46:40And the reason that that's confusing is because we're a little overdue to update our charter

2:46:45to reflect what's superseded -- I think that's the right term -- superseded by Mass General

2:46:48Law.

2:46:49And so I think it's important for the public to know that the process that we're doing

2:46:53now is the right process and that any other document that suggests otherwise is just in

2:47:01need of updating specifically our charter.

2:47:03So I think there's some way of making that clear that what we're following and maybe

2:47:08perhaps Mr. Timmons can kind of testify to that point that what we're following is indeed

2:47:13the process that is the correct process so that later on down the line there aren't other

2:47:21problems with what we've done.

2:47:23You know, I'd hate to get through all this and then have someone say, "Yeah, but look

2:47:26at the charter."

2:47:27Yeah.

2:47:28Right.

2:47:29I don't want to end up back where we came from.

2:47:30I think that I can actually address that and share that.

2:47:35I can do that at the next meeting because I have emails from Salsiter Timmons and very

2:47:42carefully looked at this issue at the laws around this.

2:47:46But as you said, our charter is based on a Massachusetts General Law.

2:47:52Our charter is like from -- I have it somewhere, but it's like from the early '50s.

2:47:55It hasn't been touched since.

2:47:59And this -- the general laws have changed over the time to make it so that it doesn't

2:48:04have to go before voters for approval.

2:48:08We actually could put a non-binding ballot question on next year's municipal ballot.

2:48:15Once we figure this out, we can, by majority vote, say just a non-binding sort of advisory

2:48:24question.

2:48:25Do you support this process and these raises?

2:48:29That's something I'll throw out there that we could discuss.

2:48:31We could.

2:48:32We could also have 30 meetings, but I think -- so I guess what I'm suggesting is that

2:48:39we get it clear and I think having a legal resource sort of explain this kind of covers

2:48:48us so that we don't spend a lot of time going down this path only to have people question,

2:48:54you know, the work that's happening.

2:48:55I just want to make sure that's clear because I think it's very confusing for people.

2:48:58It is confusing.

2:48:59It's very confusing, yeah.

2:49:00Yes, I think that's a good point and I'm happy to put something together on that.

2:49:09Okay.

2:49:11Okay.

2:49:12So if no one disagrees, if we have some -- I'll just put together a little info sheet on

2:49:21past compensation for -- just for reference so we understand.

2:49:29Okay.

2:49:33So going forward, I actually think -- so our next meeting is October 19th.

2:49:48Is it possible for people to -- I'll try to get this Google form made and sent to Jen

2:49:58so that she can send it out by the end of the week.

2:50:02Is it possible?

2:50:03I think we could -- you could all input your data by October 19th, the Monday?

2:50:10Yes.

2:50:12Okay.

2:50:13All right.

2:50:14And then I'm thinking we could maybe aim for the November 23rd meeting for the analysis

2:50:20because we'll probably need a little bit of time for that and we can work to schedule

2:50:27public hearing.

2:50:28Does that make sense, that sort of timing?

2:50:36I'm going to take that as a yes.

2:50:42For the analysis part and if we do the -- submit the data, we could potentially discuss it

2:50:49that night.

2:50:52All right.

2:50:53So I think that will wrap it up.

2:50:56Unless anyone has any questions or is confused about what we've decided, I think we have

2:51:01decided what criteria we're going to have on the Google form, sending the date -- sending

2:51:09things in by October 19th, aiming to discuss the analysis November 23rd and then have public

2:51:18discussion and then come to a decision.

2:51:21So just 30, 29 more meetings.

2:51:27All right.

2:51:29Thank you.

2:51:30Okay.

2:51:31Councillor?

2:51:32Well, thank you, Madam Chair.

2:51:35So October 19th is the date that the data has to be completed and did you say November

2:51:4123rd?

2:51:43That's what I'm just thinking, is we could aim for that as the -- when we discuss our

2:51:49analysis of that data.

2:51:51Okay.

2:51:52Okay.

2:51:54Thank you.

2:51:55Yeah.

2:51:56We should, just to point it out, I called the State Ethics Commission about this because

2:52:01again we're the council and we're talking about council raises.

2:52:05So the State Ethics Commission doesn't have any hard and fast rules about when we would

2:52:10need to decide this -- well, in the sense that it has to be before people pull papers

2:52:16to run for council, ideally we would wrap this process up, you know, not close to that

2:52:25time in the spring.

2:52:26So we could aim to do it by the end of this year, this calendar year.

2:52:32So okay.

2:52:33All right.

2:52:35So I will adjourn the Ordinance Committee meeting.

2:52:49We're council meeting and at this point we're at communications and reports from the mayor

2:53:02and other city officers and boards.

2:53:04Done?

2:53:06Okay.

2:53:07Unfinished business and proceeding minute meetings, okay.

2:53:11Reports of committees, public works, Councilor Asch.

2:53:20Thank you, Madam President.

2:53:22Tonight we had at 6.30 p.m. a public hearing on 2026-130 utility granted location, Mass

2:53:31Electric Company, Chestnut Street, positive recommendation from committee.

2:53:36Roll call vote, do we have a seconder?

2:53:44Seconded by Councilor Riley.

2:53:47Councilor Asch.

2:53:48Yes.

2:53:49Councilor DiBona.

2:53:50Yes.

2:53:51Councilor Hubley.

2:53:52Yes.

2:53:53Councilor Jacobs.

2:53:54Yes.

2:53:55Councilor McKee.

2:53:56Yes.

2:53:57Councilor Riley.

2:53:58Yes.

2:53:59Councilor Ryan.

2:54:01Yes.

2:54:02Councilor Nguyen.

2:54:03Yes.

2:54:04President Moholy.

2:54:05Yes.

2:54:06Time members.

2:54:07Okay.

2:54:08We have one additional grid, B.A.V. and Homestead Ave, which also received a positive

2:54:12recommendation to come out of committee, so motion to--I'm sorry, unless Councilor Jacobs,

2:54:17I can withdraw that if you had something.

2:54:20I just have a question.

2:54:21I just have a question.

2:54:23On the motion.

2:54:25These utility grants, are the neighbors notified of them?

2:54:29Yes.

2:54:31They are, so the neighbor who's having the poll moved basically right up against their

2:54:35driveway has been notified, and we received no communication from them?

2:54:39I do not receive communication.

2:54:41I don't believe the council office.

2:54:42Can we--can we--

2:54:43If you want to table this one, if you want to retell.

2:54:45To the next one, just because I would like to talk to that person, because I know my

2:54:50house in West Quincy, I went away on vacation, and I came back, and there was a fire hydrant

2:54:53in front of the house.

2:54:54I'd never been there.

2:54:55Been on the house for 40 years, and nobody ever said there was a fire hydrant going

2:54:58in there, and it's a surprise when you set a house for many, many years and you roll

2:55:03up or you pack on the street.

2:55:04You can't pack there because there's a fire hydrant that's never there, so--

2:55:07That's fine.

2:55:08We'll--2026-131, we'll stay in committee.

2:55:12That's it.

2:55:13Yeah, I know.

2:55:14You want to table that one?

2:55:15Yes.

2:55:17Okay, excellent.

2:55:18Are you all set, Councillor?

2:55:19Yes.

2:55:20Okay.

2:55:22Moving on to Ordinance Traffics, Councillor McKee.

2:55:24Oh, sorry.

2:55:25We'll go after Ordinance, then we'll have you do it.

2:55:27Okay.

2:55:29Yep, Ordinance.

2:55:31So we have some traffics.

2:55:32I'd like to move to remove 2026-127 at Handicap Parking in front of 5 Bittern Road and Ward

2:55:4110 out of committee.

2:55:43Okay.

2:55:45Do I have a second for Councillor Riley?

2:55:47All right.

2:55:48Do we take a roll call vote?

2:55:50Councillor Ash?

2:55:51Do we?

2:55:52Councillor DiBona?

2:55:53Yes.

2:55:54Councillor Hubley?

2:55:55Yes.

2:55:56Councillor Jacobs?

2:55:57Yes.

2:55:58Councillor McKee?

2:55:59Yes.

2:56:00Councillor Riley?

2:56:01Yes.

2:56:03Councillor Ryan?

2:56:04Yes.

2:56:05Councillor Ewen?

2:56:06President Mahoney?

2:56:07Yes.

2:56:08Okay.

2:56:09So I'd like to motion to approve 2026-127 at Handicap Parking in front of 5 Bittern Road.

2:56:10Second.

2:56:11Second by Councillor.

2:56:12Motion by Councillor McKee, second by Councillor Jacobs.

2:56:15Roll call vote?

2:56:17Councillor Ash?

2:56:19Councillor DiBona?

2:56:20Yes.

2:56:21Councillor Hubley?

2:56:22Yes.

2:56:23Councillor Jacobs?

2:56:24Yes.

2:56:25Councillor McKee?

2:56:26Yes.

2:56:27Councillor Riley?

2:56:28Yes.

2:56:30Councillor Ryan?

2:56:31Councillor Ewen?

2:56:32President Mahoney?

2:56:33Yes.

2:56:34I'd like to move to take 2026-128 at Handicap Parking in front of 29 Spear Street and Ward

2:56:391 out of committee.

2:56:42Motion by Councillor McKee.

2:56:43Seconded by Councillor Jacobs.

2:56:45Roll call vote.

2:56:46Councillor Ash?

2:56:47Councillor DiBona?

2:56:48Yes.

2:56:49Councillor Hubley?

2:56:50Yes.

2:56:51Councillor Jacobs?

2:56:52Yes.

2:56:53Councillor McKee?

2:56:54Yes.

2:56:55Councillor Riley?

2:56:56Yes.

2:56:57Councillor Ryan?

2:56:58Councillor Ewen?

2:56:59President Mahoney?

2:57:01Yes.

2:57:02Is that it?

2:57:03God, I'm sorry.

2:57:04Move to take 2026-128 at Handicap Parking in front of 29 Spear Street.

2:57:05Motion by Councillor McKee.

2:57:06Second by Councillor Jacobs.

2:57:07Roll call vote.

2:57:08Councillor Ash?

2:57:09Councillor DiBona?

2:57:10Yes.

2:57:11Councillor Hubley?

2:57:15Yes.

2:57:16Councillor Jacobs?

2:57:17Yes.

2:57:18Move to take 2026-132 at Handicap Parking opposite 72 Teforail Road out of committee.

2:57:27Seconded by Councillor Ryan.

2:57:29Motion by Councillor McKee.

2:57:30Seconded by Councillor Riley.

2:57:31All those in favour?

2:57:32Aye.

2:57:33Aye.

2:57:34Motion to approve 2026-132 at Handicap Parking opposite 72 Teforail Road.

2:57:39Second.

2:57:40Motion by Councillor McKee.

2:57:41Seconded by Councillor Jacobs.

2:57:42I'm going to vote roll number four because my head is good.

2:57:45So we're going to just say all those in favour?

2:57:46Aye.

2:57:47Any opposed?

2:57:49Good.

2:57:50Moving on.

2:57:51Motion to take 2026-129 at No Parking on the west side of Mullen Avenue from O'Connell

2:57:57Avenue to the accepted portion of Mullen Avenue out of committee.

2:58:00Motion by Councillor McKee.

2:58:02Seconded by Councillor Ryan.

2:58:04All those in favour?

2:58:05Aye.

2:58:06Motion to approve 2026-129 at No Parking on the west side of Mullen Avenue from O'Connell

2:58:11to the accepted portion of Mullen Avenue.

2:58:13Okay.

2:58:14Motion by Councillor McKee.

2:58:15Seconded by Councillor Ryan.

2:58:16All those in favour?

2:58:17Aye.

2:58:18Excellent.

2:58:19You all set?

2:58:21Yes.

2:58:22Councillor Riley.

2:58:25Thank you, Madam.

2:58:27Thank you, Madam President.

2:58:29A combined meeting of the Finance and Oversight Committees was held last Tuesday, September

2:58:3329th, and although there were no motions to move any of the matters out of committee,

2:58:38there was some noteworthy follow-up actions and takeaways from the discussions.

2:58:43On order number 2026-106, oversight of the Public Works Enhancement Fund, it seems clear

2:58:49that the city officials were unaware of the 2004 Act restricting the use of the funds

2:58:53strictly for sidewalk and road improvements and capital equipment purchases.

2:58:59The city instead has stated that they see the use in broader terms and view the DPW

2:59:03and oversight accounts to be interchangeable.

2:59:06Mr. Walker stated several times that the administration takes a "expansive view" of the use of various

2:59:10funding sources such as this, one outside of the general budget.

2:59:17The committee welcomes any additional information or commitments the city wants to offer on

2:59:21this matter.

2:59:22On 2026-081, the resolve seeking a formal audit of the lease deductions, expenses and

2:59:28payments by Corey Hills Associates.

2:59:31The committee reviewed the most recent quarterly income statement and questioned many deductions

2:59:35including administration, depreciation, comps, function expenses and other miscellaneous

2:59:40deductions.

2:59:42The committee welcomes any additional information regarding the use of the oversight account

2:59:45for a public building's project manager's salary, the removal of the golf cart revenue

2:59:49from the revenue calculation, the reinstatement of the Corey Hills Advisory Committee per

2:59:54paragraph 20 of the current lease terms, further disclosure of the 2009 audit and subsequent

3:00:01council order that criticized the lease deductions over a decade ago, the money raised and spent

3:00:06from the Mayor's Cup golf tournament and finally the commitment to a full and complete audit

3:00:11in this fiscal year with input by this council.

3:00:16The matter 2026-042, American Rescue Plan Spending Transparency.

3:00:22We were able to identify many areas where funds were used for real estate purchases,

3:00:26statues, landscaping, parks, transfers to non-charitable nonprofits, holiday string

3:00:32lights and other non-essential spending using pandemic relief funds.

3:00:37The committee welcomes any additional information on the spending from the administration.

3:00:42Council Order 2026-056, the Council on Aging Department Head Theft.

3:00:47On this matter, the city could not confirm or produce a whistleblower policy, not the

3:00:52state and federal statute but rather a policy on how it is carried out in the City of Quincy.

3:00:58The reporting process, investigating process and ensuring the confidentiality of the reporter

3:01:03are some of the things that would be in the city's policy.

3:01:07Instead, Solicitor Timmons stated publicly that "there aren't any prophylactic measures

3:01:12that can be taken to prevent fraud.

3:01:14It can't happen, especially in municipal government," which is a discouraging statement

3:01:21from the Chief Legal Counsel for the City of Quincy.

3:01:25Per the Mass Office of the Inspector General, according to the Association of Certified

3:01:30Fraud Examiners 2024 report to the nations, more than half of workplace frauds occurred

3:01:38due to a lack of internal controls or the override of existing controls.

3:01:43The report further states that 44 percent of government fraud is detected as a result

3:01:47of a hotline tip, and tips are twice as likely to come from employees who have received fraud

3:01:52training awareness as from those who did not.

3:01:57They emphasized that the combination of a fraud hotline and fraud awareness training

3:02:01results in a significant reduction in losses.

3:02:06So the committee encourages the city to create a whistleblower policy if one does not already

3:02:10exist and set up an independent reporting hotline as promised in February 2025 and mandate

3:02:17fraud prevention training for all employees.

3:02:21And finally, the Finance Committee and Oversight Committees are happy to reconvene a meeting

3:02:25to allow the city to provide supplemental materials and discussion with the Councillors

3:02:29on any of these matters at a future date.

3:02:31Therefore, they will remain in committee to allow for further discussion.

3:02:35Thank you.

3:02:36Thank you.

3:02:37Moving on to presentations of petitioners, memorials and remonches.

3:02:40Councillor Ash.

3:02:45Thank you, Madam President.

3:02:46I would like to take a moment and extend the condolences of this body, certainly my

3:02:52own personal condolences to the family of Rita McGowan.

3:02:56Rita was 95 years old when she died on September 15th and she lived most of her life in Quincy.

3:03:05Rita was born in Queens, New York.

3:03:07She moved to Everett when she was a teenager, a graduate of Quincy High, class of 1948.

3:03:13Her obituary read that she met her husband, Bill, of 59 years at the merry-go-round in

3:03:20House Neck, so I thought that was -- you know, you could see it in your head if you

3:03:26knew Mrs. McGowan.

3:03:28She was married to her husband, Bill, for 59 years, eight kids, 19 grandkids.

3:03:34She worked as a receptionist for the Quincy Police Department for a number of years and

3:03:39she was extremely involved in St. Joseph's Church.

3:03:41She was a Eucharistic minister, one of the leaders of the Lady's Sedality.

3:03:46She gave communion to the seniors at a thousand-seven artery where she lived.

3:03:50She often visited friends and patients in nursing homes as a sunshine visitor.

3:04:00Cardinal O'Malley came to Mrs. McGowan in 2017 and presented her with the Cheveris

3:04:06Award because of her generosity for her time, compassion, and dedication.

3:04:11She's the epitome of the term matriarch of a beautiful family and I certainly send condolences

3:04:18to all of the McGowan family as they -- they had services last week and I hope that they

3:04:26were as special as Mrs. McGowan was.

3:04:29Thank you.

3:04:30>> Thank you very much.

3:04:31Councilor Jacobs.

3:04:32>> Clementina Brill, D'Angelo's Brill in House Neck, passed away peacefully on October

3:04:431st, interesting attachment here, but her family owned and operated that carousel in

3:04:49House Neck.

3:04:50So there you go.

3:04:52And one of her -- I'll never forget, maybe three or four years ago, they had had that

3:04:57carousel for many years in storage and we're trying to get it rebuilt in Brill Field like

3:05:03my entire life.

3:05:04I heard about it my entire life from her brother who's still with us.

3:05:08But that carousel was eventually sold to the company that actually built the carousel and

3:05:15was restored and is available for rides in Buffalo if you're ever out there, it is operating

3:05:21right now.

3:05:22She was a cherished member of our community in House Neck although she grew up in Hyde

3:05:27Park in Boston, but she, you know, met her husband Robert and they shared 73 years of

3:05:34marriage together.

3:05:35She had a wonderful way of making everyone feel welcome and brought joy and laughter

3:05:40and warmth to everyone that knew her.

3:05:42She was the head school lunch major at the at-then-how, that was before I was there and

3:05:46I was there in the early '90s, so she was there before that.

3:05:50We had Mrs. Fitzgerald.

3:05:53She was a member of the Catholic Daughters of Lady Sedality.

3:05:56She was a den mother for Cub Scouts and she was in the bowling league, no doubt, at Mary

3:06:00Mount Lane's where everybody was a member, myself included.

3:06:04Clementina, she was a devoted mother, grandmother, great-grandmother, sister and friend and again

3:06:09is survived by her husband Robert.

3:06:12Their children are still surviving are Donna Rowan, her husband Michael, Richard Brill

3:06:17of Quincy and Katherine Doyle and her husband James of Braintree and her daughter-in-law.

3:06:23She has many great-grandchildren and one great-grandchild.

3:06:28She is also survived by her sister, Antoinette DeCoste of Florida and Joe DeAngelis of Quincy.

3:06:35She was predeceased by four of her sons, some of them you might know, Christopher Brill,

3:06:41Joe Brill, John Brill, Robert Brill and Joe Brill, and her sister Genevieve and her brother

3:06:49Gerald and John.

3:06:53Family was everything to Clementina.

3:06:55She would often have big gatherings at her house.

3:06:58She has a beautiful front porch right next to Chapel Park there.

3:07:02I remember as a kid, there was always people on that porch.

3:07:04I was there the other day and there were people on that porch.

3:07:07There was always people on that porch.

3:07:09She just had a way of making everybody feel very welcome in her home.

3:07:14I grew up with her granddaughter and one of my core childhood memories, even though

3:07:18I didn't go in that house a lot, one of my core childhood memories was going over there

3:07:22one day after church and her husband had an entire basement with model trains.

3:07:29It was all decorated for Christmas and I remember it was around Christmas time and

3:07:32there were cookies and that's the kind of person she was.

3:07:35She was always inviting and bringing people into her house so I hope that we'll just keep

3:07:39her in our thoughts and prayers and their family as well.

3:07:41Thank you.

3:07:43Thank you very much, Councilor Jacobs.

3:07:45Ms. Brill is a very special person and she liked to cup of tea too.

3:07:49She often would offer me one.

3:07:50Anybody else?

3:07:51No?

3:07:56No.

3:07:57Telsi, you in?

3:08:00Thank you, Madam President.

3:08:06On the city website, the Quincy Council on Aging Board, the board of directors serve

3:08:14us an advisor to the director of health services and the term class B was the director of

3:08:24health services and I'm just wondering why this theft can happen in the face in front

3:08:37of employees for ten years and nobody knows that?

3:08:43Is every department a sealed tank?

3:08:47That is the head of administration.

3:08:48Can I be heard on this?

3:08:49You have to let me finish.

3:08:54It's an extraordinary level of insinuation that continues to go on, a level of misinformation,

3:09:03a level of accusation that continues to go on from some members of this body that is

3:09:08absolutely disgraceful.

3:09:09All right.

3:09:11I'm going to stop both of you at this point.

3:09:14I'm going to ask you to stop for tonight, okay?

3:09:17We're going to discuss stuff, but I am going to -- we're on petitions, memorials and remonstrances.

3:09:28I know, but you're actually going on -- this is about -- you started with an apology and

3:09:33you moved on to something else, but I'm going to ask if we can just table it for right

3:09:36now.

3:09:37But what I will say is that, no, actually, for tonight, I'm going to actually be the

3:09:42one that says this tonight.

3:09:43So there's a lot of accusations going about from both sides and the reality of it is

3:09:49that our job as elected officials, as counselors, is the legislature arm of the city.

3:09:56So the oversight that we're asking to have, and everybody's very sensitive about that,

3:10:00is our job.

3:10:01We couldn't have it two years ago because it was in -- it was in the courts.

3:10:06So when it was finally decided upon, it came back and was put into oversight and we had

3:10:10those meetings.

3:10:11The meetings have been -- we had two meetings.

3:10:14One meeting, I don't even want to recall back to that.

3:10:17It was an uncomfortable evening where we had a department head basically accusing us of

3:10:21Monday morning quarterbacking and shaming.

3:10:23We're not shaming anybody.

3:10:25And I'm not certainly here to say anything about shaming anybody.

3:10:28But what is a shame is what happened in our city and the fact that we think we shouldn't

3:10:33talk about it.

3:10:34We should talk about it because quite honestly, this is how we fix the problems that happen.

3:10:39It should never have happened in the first place, but it did.

3:10:42And it happened to a director of the COA underneath an administration that they do have a close

3:10:47relationship for.

3:10:49I think it would be shocking for anybody.

3:10:51I think we can all look internally into our families and say maybe some of our family

3:10:55members have done things that are shocking to us, too.

3:10:57But that doesn't change the fact that this happened in our city and that we do have

3:11:01to put safeguards up to make sure that we're doing those things.

3:11:04We didn't get all the answers that we were asking for in that oversight meeting.

3:11:08And that is what oversight is about, is about answering those questions and making sure

3:11:12the taxpayers of the city of Quincy feel as though that we're doing our jobs.

3:11:16Now I don't want to have any more personal attacks about anybody.

3:11:18I'm not personally attacking anybody when I'm talking about this.

3:11:21I'm talking about the gravity of what happened in our city underneath our own noses here.

3:11:28And if it didn't happen outside of the state of Massachusetts, we probably still wouldn't

3:11:31know about it.

3:11:32That is the only reason why Tom Clasby is in jail, is because he went across state

3:11:38lines.

3:11:39That is true.

3:11:40That is true.

3:11:41Because, no, you know what, out of order, you know what, you don't have the floor

3:11:45now on the council.

3:11:46You do not.

3:11:47You do.

3:11:49I'm going to ask you right now.

3:11:50You do not have the floor.

3:11:51That is true.

3:11:54You can try to rewrite history.

3:11:55But it is true.

3:11:56He went across.

3:11:57It was true.

3:11:58He was taking money across state lines.

3:11:59He was having it come.

3:12:00And it is true.

3:12:01Once it goes past state lines, it leaves the state of Massachusetts and becomes federal.

3:12:06That is true.

3:12:07So at the end of the day, I want to put this to rest.

3:12:09We do have more things to do in the city of Quincy.

3:12:12I'm not.

3:12:13Councilwoman, you started to apologize tonight.

3:12:15I appreciate that apology.

3:12:16But I don't want to talk about any more about that.

3:12:18Because right now, what we have is we don't have the answers that we want.

3:12:22We had a city solicitor come up and basically counter what he was saying at that night when

3:12:27he was standing here, shaming us.

3:12:29I'm not ashamed about asking questions in the city.

3:12:31That is my job, is to ask questions and to make sure that we're getting the answers

3:12:35that are right for the public so that we know that we're actually protecting the taxpayers

3:12:38of the city of Quincy.

3:12:40And I will continue to do that.

3:12:42And you know, when bad things happen, we have to address them.

3:12:45Because if we don't address them, they'll continue to happen.

3:12:47So that is the end of that and I'm going to leave it at that.

3:12:51So motions, orders and resolutions.

3:12:54Does anybody have any?

3:12:55I feel like I'm at home at my dinner table.

3:12:57Okay.

3:12:59Upcoming meetings.

3:13:00We have Tuesday, October 6.

3:13:016 p.m. public hearing for the floc.

3:13:03That's tomorrow night.

3:13:05And 7 o'clock oversight meeting for floc.

3:13:08And then Monday, November, October 19, 630 Munitec and 730 City Council.

3:13:14Did you have a meeting coming up for the raises?

3:13:16Did you mention the date?

3:13:18Yes.

3:13:19It would be great to schedule an October 19th meeting, Ordinance Committee meeting.

3:13:30Munitec is already happening.

3:13:31Munitec is happening.

3:13:32Okay.

3:13:33I will work with you.

3:13:36So House Mickey is going to work with Jen to look for those e-mails that are going to

3:13:40be coming out.

3:13:41Okay.

3:13:43And with that, do I have a motion to adjourn?

3:13:44Motion to adjourn.

3:13:45Councilor Ralley, thank you very much.

3:13:46Everybody have a great night.